#253 Ivan Shkvarun: Inside the Fight Against AI-Driven Cybercrime

This episode is brought to you by Extreme Networks, the company radically improving customer experiences with AI-powered automation for networking. Extreme is driving the convergence of AI, networking, and security to transform the way businesses connect and protect their networks, delivering faster performance, stronger security, and a seamless user experience. Visit https://www.extremenetworks.com/ to learn more. In this episode of Eye on AI, we sit down with Ivan Shkvarun, CEO of Social Links and founder of the Dark Side AI Initiative, to uncover how cybercriminals are leveraging generative AI to orchestrate fraud, deepfakes, and large-scale digital attacks—often with just a few lines of code. Ivan shares how his team is building real-time OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) tools to help governments, enterprises, and law enforcement fight back. From dark web monitoring to ethical AI frameworks, we explore what it takes to protect the digital world from the next wave of AI-powered crime. Whether you're in tech, cybersecurity, or policy—this conversation is a wake-up call. AGNTCY - Unlock agents at scale with an open Internet of Agents. Visit https://agntcy.org/ and add your support. From cybersecurity to law enforcement — discover how Social Links brings the full potential of OSINT to your team at http://bit.ly/44sytzk Stay Updated: Craig Smith on X:https://x.com/craigss Eye on A. I. on X: https://x.com/EyeOn_AI (00:00) Preview (02:11) Meet Ivan Shkvarun & Social Links (03:41) Launching the Dark Side AI Initiative (05:16) What OSINT Actually Means Today (08:39) How Law Enforcement Trace Digital Footprints (12:50) Connecting Surface Web to Darknet (16:12) OSINT Methodology in Action (20:23) Why Most Companies Waste Their Own Data (21:09) Cybersecurity Threats Beyond the IT Department (26:25) BrightSide AI vs. DarkSide AI (30:10) Should AI-Generated Content Be Labeled? (31:26) Why We Can't "Stop" AI (35:37) Why AI-Driven Fraud Is Exploding (41:39) The Reality of Criminal Syndicates

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I think that it will be interesting to know that there are 1 billion websites now, and this is only 4% of Internet. That's why when I even now call the Internet, honestly, I mean all digital space. And 96% of the data in Internet are in Darknet. So we have a dark web monitoring and dark web solution and social links. And that's how we started, and that's how I found a lot of insights. And that we launched in January, I called it Darkside AI Initiative. Why also Darkside AI? It's also the story. The two years ago, we started to work with company, and we even invested in this company. The name of this company, Brightside AI.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  So what guys are doing, they are trying to use AI to defend the employees of the companies from the AI solutions that criminals are using.

• 0:56Craig S. Smith?

  Our sponsor for this episode is Extreme Networks, the company radically improving customer experiences with AI-powered automation for networking. Extreme is driving the convergence of AI, networking, and security to transform the way businesses connect and protect their networks to deliver faster performance, stronger security, and a seamless user experience. Visit extremenetworks.com to learn more. That's extremenetworksallruntogether.com to learn more.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  Hi, my name is Ivan. I am CEO and founder of Social Links Company. And at the same time, I am author and founder of Darkside AI Initiative. And let's introduce Social Links, because that's how it all started. And we launched this company in 2015. And we were one of the first commercial company in open source intelligence era.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  What we are doing, we are gathering public available information about people and companies and helping governments and businesses to secure

• 2:22Speaker 00

  to secure and to make our life and businesses safety. And that's how we saw that criminals started to use AI much more and early, then businesses even started to use all these benefits from AI. And that was one of the first thoughts about, okay, we should do something. And I'm an entrepreneur guy. And that's why also the idea was, okay, what could we do? And that's how we launched this DROX AI initiative. We just launched it in January, so a few months ago. And what is that? It's initiative, that's mean that it's not a product and solution.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  It's like nonprofit project. We are, from one side, we are doing a lot of research and we will public them for free to increase awareness about this risk. We will make some educational things. Of course, we will try to develop solutions and we already doing that. From another side, the main idea to join community about that, to discuss maybe, to launch any standards and also to talk about that. Because if we will not talk about that and we will think that, oh, it's so scary. We could not talk about that, nothing will change.

• 3:47Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah, I wanted to talk a little bit about social links. So you gather public, publicly available data, not only on the visible web, but from the dark web as well. And then police forces or governments or anybody in the enforcement space can use social links to understand criminal networks or identify individuals involved in those networks. Can you tell us how that works?

• 4:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that it will be interesting to know that there are one billion websites now. And this is only four percent of Internet. That's why when I even now call the Internet, honestly, I mean all digital space. And ninety-six percent of the data in Internet are in Darknet. So that's why another name of Internet Surface Web, yeah? And that's why Darknet, Dark Web. So that's why how we started and we realized that

• 5:10Speaker 00

  there are a lot of different places where are the information and we should look at that. I will even rephrase it like, you know, that we are more powerful than Google Engine. Because Google indexed only

• 5:30Speaker 00

  data that you could see or sites that you could see with standard browsers. We could find the data that are invisible for standard browsers. So that's the easy way to explain. But the idea, yes, how it's started, that

• 5:49Speaker 00

  a lot of people started to put their information anywhere in the digital sphere. So Facebook is just the first example, because we all know that this was one of the first and famous even for now social network, yeah? But it's not about that. The story is that it was the first steps of data migration from any kind of internal sources to open sources. And this also that we saw, and I see even now that this digital hygiene of the people hygiene, yeah? It's near the zero.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  We even don't think about what are we doing? Could someone see it? And so on, so on. That's why it's usually like black and white, yin and yang principle. Because from one side, we uh could find that and help to law enforcement to catch the criminals. Because there are a lot of digital footprints, how we call it. And there are a lot of interesting stories, how digital identifiers of our, of us are connected between each other. Like the any IP addresses, emails, IDs, and so on, so on. Yeah.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  So we could see the full picture of that. And from one side, we see it and we are trying to educate the people. Also to show guys, like the standard principle in cybersecurity, don't use the same email everywhere. Like a login, yeah, because all these uh solutions and applications, they helped for us. They helped us with the one crucial thing that now login is email. So everywhere your email. But that's mean that it's so easy to to find you and to understand you. And we educate it, yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  From another side, yes, we use it to help law enforcement and governments and businesses, corporate security, information, security departments from the biggest S and P five hundred companies to secure their businesses, to find the criminals. Yeah, and also that's why we know how criminals are using that. And that's why we could help, you know, like the virus and anti anti antivirus solutions, yeah? You should understand how the virus viruses works to secure it. And that's how we help the companies to work with that. So, yeah, we uh get information from.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  More than 500 sources, different sources, they are all public development information. So we are fully compliant here with any rules and principles here because these public development informations, you could find it manually and everyone could find it. But we did an automated solution for that, yeah? That could help you for one minute to see it. If you want to do it manually, you will spend days or weeks. But you also could find it. So that's, I mean, public development information, not this case.

• 9:07Craig S. Smith?

  How do you search the dark web? How do you connect the dark web to, say, Facebook? So that you can identify people? Because the dark web is not indexed. So unless you know the address for a particular site on the darknet, you're never going to find it. I mean, there are all kinds of lists and things like that, but it's constantly changing and they're not very useful.

• 9:45Craig S. Smith?

  So how do you crawl the darknet, identify sites and then link them back to the visible net?

• 9:57Speaker 00

  I will try to explain you, but I will not tell all details because that's why we are the leader in OSINT sphere. For example, you have any media post or media article and you post the email. Like, guys, if you want to write me, this is my email. So it's public, we see it in the mail, yeah? And of course, it's very...

• 10:26Speaker 00

  Easy to identify that if you are the author of this article and you posted your own email to connect with you that this is your email and so on. Just let's put it in our mind. Then let's go to dark web. The most interesting thing that in dark web, all messages are secured with special open and close key. And the idea that if you want to produce your own key, you should register the email. So you understand that even in dark web, you should use an email

• 11:07Speaker 00

  to register your account, to register your own key, secret key, and so on, so on, so on. And of course, the most professional guys, they have

• 11:19Speaker 00

  one unique email for any transaction and so on, so on. But we are a human being. And the idea that someone are lazy and someone did mistake and all most famous criminals who were found, they did any kind of mistake. And that's how we could find them. So the idea that how you could analyze that this is the same person, for example, in internet, in surface web and in dark web, if you could connect that the email is the same. So if you will find the email here and the mail here,

• 12:02Speaker 00

  you could predict that maybe the same person. And then one more hypothesis, how to look at that. So that's why I mentioned that sometimes, you know that even I have a joke like, if you're, for example, walking around on the street and you see any boxes, for example, Ikea delivery box or something like that, you could look at that. And in most cases, what you will see here, the first name, the last name, the phone, the addresses, you know, like DHL delivery list, who are that. So just imagine the personal data are just like a garbage on the street. And you could just look at that and it's reality.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  I checked a lot of times. So that's how even our solution also works. So we look at a lot of different places and

• 12:58Speaker 00

  combine the full picture by any pieces and each of piece. It could be fully unuseful, but when you look at that all together, it's like wow, yeah, insight.

• 13:14Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Craig S. Smith?

  The, and how do you, how do you crawl? Do you have crawlers that are going through the dark web autonomously? Or, or is this gathering this data? Is it a manual exercise where you have an army of people searching through the dark web?

• 13:37Speaker 00

  No, it's all automated. And I will tell that there are really different methods and types how we are doing that. In like 90% of cases, we are doing that by our own. And this is our own solution. And of course, there are some companies on the market who are also doing that. And we are using, and so we buy these services. And there are a few really famous companies who are doing that. We have more than 500 customers, more than 90 countries.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  And we decided to, and we are still doing that because we did the first project and we decided to check how many bridges in Darknet connected to corporate emails.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  And we found a lot, even from Minister of Media, Minister of Defence, Minister of Interiors, the full country. What does mean? The, the devices.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Of the employees of Ministry of Defence, some countries are infected and every day they have breaches. Just imagine what is going on. Yeah. Of course, we notified them. We tell them they did some things with that. And that's why we just continue to do it monthly. And we decided that we will make the deep research. And I will also use it in our dark side of the initiative to show that, guys, we could find it. So just imagine what criminals with EI could do with that. And why you are not doing something really crucial with that? Yeah.

• 15:28Craig S. Smith?

  Build the future of multi-agent software with AGNTCY. The agency is an open source collective building the Internet of Agents. It's a collaborative layer where agents can discover, connect, and work across frameworks. For developers, this means standardized agent discovery tools, seamless protocols for inter-agent communications. For developers, this means standardized agent discovery tools, seamless protocols for inter-agent communication, and modular components to compose and scale multi-agent workflows.

• 16:12Craig S. Smith?

  Join Crew AI, LangChain, Llama Index, BrowserBase, Cisco, and dozens more. The agency is dropping code, specs, and services. No strings attached. Build with other engineers who care about high-quality, multi-agent software. Visit agntcy.org and add your support. That's A-G-N-T-C-Y dot O R G. Agency dot org.

• 16:48Craig S. Smith?

  And support the project. Yeah, and just for listeners, you mentioned OSINT a little while ago. That's open source intelligence. And that's, that's what SocialLinks is doing. You're relying on open source, you know, social media platforms, news articles, academic papers, government reports, and the dark web content to, to, to create a visualization of how everything is interconnected. Is, is it, do you do visualizations?

• 17:30Craig S. Smith?

  Or is this just stored in a relational database or something?

• 17:39Speaker 00

  I should mention that we don't collect all this data. It's illegal. So we are, our solution work, works in real time. So that's why I mentioned like we are like a Google. I mean that it's changing in real time. So that's also, we are trying, not trying, yeah, of course. We are fully compliance and this is one of the main thing that we did not store it and collect. So that's why this infrastructure is even so unique. Yeah, that it's in real time, in seconds, sometimes in maybe minutes,

• 18:24Speaker 00

  if it's really huge query and so on. That's why we are doing all steps of intelligence cycle. We are gathering. We are also using our own AI models to speed up investigation, to analyze it all texts, speech analysis, visual recognition, and so on, so on. And then we have different visualization tool like maps, tables, graphs, timelines, yeah, also to make an analytical report easy.

• 19:01Speaker 00

  So that's one of solution and I want to mention that ten years ago, we started with the main idea that all seemed and this is like the the market, the most solution I know, but now more and more I see and think that all seemed it's mostly methodology, like a mindset, you know, the steps that you should do to have some values and now I realized and we also did few steps for that.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  How this methodology could bring the value to new industries? For example, not only to securities, yeah, for example, we launched spin off company for financial sector. So we understood that in emerging markets, there are more than eighty percent of the people in countries, they could not use standard digital banking because they don't have any credit score. Yeah. Nothing. So they really could not use this benefit and we understood how to make a credit score based on alternative data

• 20:22Speaker 00

  and the banks and loans platforms and so on, they found the benefits here. And also there are a lot of ideas that we are doing with digital risk protection in healthcare, education, transportation and so on. There are huge research by McKinsey that showed that open data could unlock from five to six trillions of dollars and they called it like trillions of values to these new industries if we find the way how to use it and we are doing that step by step. So that's why I think that this is methodology,

• 21:03Speaker 00

  the methodology, the mindset, how to use data, because you know also the interesting fact that we found that more than fifty percent of companies, they don't know and they didn't have the benefit from their own data. So just imagine, yeah, they are producing a lot of data.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  And they are not using their own data for any decision making steps. So not external data, they are not using their own data for decision making. Yeah. So it's a huge problem with all of this data. So when I try to explain a lot of companies that guys, there are a lot of interesting facts, insights. And like in cyber security, you know, the Gartner Gartner mentioned that 10 years ago, the most amount of risks was inside the IT landscape.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  But nowadays, even more risk outside the, they're outside the IT landscape. So that's mean that all the social engineering staff approaches and criminals, they're trying to collect information about the victims and then use it. So that's outside. Yeah. And all the cyber security, security operation center and CEM solution, they should start to work with public development information. They're not doing that for still now. So a lot of things to be done to bring, to educate, to explain that guys, this data could help you.

• 22:52Speaker 00

  And this also, we will try to do it.

• 22:57Craig S. Smith?

  Build the future of multi-agent software with AGENCY. That's A-G-N-T-C-Y. The agency is an open source collective building the Internet of Agents. It's a collaborative layer where agents can discover, connect and work across frameworks. For developers, this means standardized agent discovery tools, seamless protocols for inter-agent communication and modular components to compose and scale multi-agent workflows. Join Crew AI, Langchain, Llama Index, Browser.

• 23:38Craig S. Smith?

  Base Cisco and dozens more. The agency is dropping code specs and services, no strings attached. Build with other engineers who care about high quality, multi-agent software. Visit agntcy.org and add your support. That's A G N T C Y dot O R G. You're based in Amsterdam. I think you you studied in Moscow and then Germany, is that right?

• 24:16Craig S. Smith?

  How?

• 24:20Craig S. Smith?

  I'm sorry, I'll cut this out, but.

• 24:24Craig S. Smith?

  Social links. Social links is a leading software provider of for OSN for open source intelligence. Are you providing, is it a SaaS platform? Or is this a software package that people buy and install and use?

• 24:46Speaker 00

  We have different options. And basic options is SaaS solutions. So that's how our. We are working only with B two G and B two B companies. So we are not working with individuals also why? Because it's so difficult to to check them, yeah? And I won't be sure who are using our solution, of course, because it's real powerful, yeah? And we have strict KYC and all these things that should be done because our holding company in US. We have investors and we are one of my dream to be presented at Nasdaq. Yeah, so we are looking at it super seriously.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  And that's why we have SaaS solution, of course. But for customers who want to have their own on-premise solution. We have it. So we have self-hosted version. It's something like the hybrid between SaaS and on-premise. And we have fully on-premise solution. In most cases, this is national security projects. So we started with fully SaaS, but then we saw the.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Requests from customers that want to have another type of

• 26:16Speaker 00

  these implementations and we did it.

• 26:20Craig S. Smith?

  So let's talk about the Dark Web AI initiative. So you you have this solution to help companies, government agencies, law enforcement agencies,

• 26:36Craig S. Smith?

  explore links between potential criminal organizations and individuals that you can identify on the visible web.

• 26:50Craig S. Smith?

  Tell me again about the what the Dark Web initiative is, who's involved in it and what you hope to achieve by it.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Yep, just let's specify. So we have a dark web monitoring and dark web solution and social links. And that's how we started. And that's how I found a lot of insights. And that we launched in January, I called it Dark Side AI Initiative. Why also Dark Side AI? It's also the story that two years ago, we started to work with company and we even invested in this company. The name of this company, Brightside AI. So what guys are doing, they are trying to use AI

• 27:44Speaker 00

  to defend the employees of the companies from the AI solutions that are using, that criminals are using. And that's why they called their company Brightside. And it was so cool. And then, you know, when I spent in 2024, a lot of times in US. Yes, I am basically in Amsterdam, our company in US. And I was surprised that most of people and companies are talking about how AI will help them to decrease the costs or to automate the processes or blah, blah, blah. So.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  You know, you see it and you know it, all crazy things about AI. Everyone are talking about AI. Ten companies in VC combinators are doing something with AI and so on. Yeah, but one more time, just no one are talking about how AI, hmm, how criminals are using AI. And just the fact that the cost of one fraud transaction now less than 10 cents. So in five years ago, four years ago, they were needed, the criminals. One hundred guys in call center who were calling and sending you messages. Now they should have two developers and few AI agents.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  That's all you see, and they could attack thousands of peoples in just one hour. So that's how AI changed the criminal sphere also, not only that we see. And that's what the last point when I realized, okay, uh, we should do something and we should, uh, name it. And, uh, we decided that we will have few streams here. First of all, of course, we are doing, uh, our technical solutions. So it's not the initiative, it's not about to talk or to discuss. We are really developing the solutions and the solutions in the sphere of modern digital risk protection.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  So we are helping companies to monitor the digital risks about their digital assets. We were thinking how to increase awareness, how to show the people about their threats. And we decided to do a lot of research and we will public them for free with a lot of statistics. And we are doing that by our own. From another side, we are doing that with partners. And for the, I don't know, this few, two months, I received more than 50 requests on our site to collaborate together to do something. And that's, I think, really cool. So no special advertisements, you know, like nothing to do,

• 30:31Speaker 00

  but people decided and voted that we want to be a part of that. And we are talking with them what to do. So we are open to do any research together to educate the people and community.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  The one more thing that we decided to do to think about real solution that could help to uh hmm to minimize this misuse of AI. For example, any standards or anything like uh to label AI, for example, and some methodology and solution, how the AI-generated content should be labeled, yeah, just because it's so really difficult to understand. So some real steps that we could do with the businesses and governments to launch some standards.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  I don't like the word rules, you know, because I think in this sphere, rules are not working. Because what does that mean rules? So someone decide that we could do that, not we, I mean, that that could be done, that not could be done. And why do we think that it's right now in so modern technology world, yeah? So that's why I think there are no rules and there are nothing to do with like hmm to stop the AI development, you know, sometimes we hear it on the market, no, let's stop AI development. We could not stop it because it's a curiosity.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  A lot of people doing that like, okay, what could be done more uh or hmm it's so interesting, yeah. So I mean, some standards, some principles, yeah. So that's few steps that we are trying to do. And of course, we are trying to do that with partnerships from companies and organizations to do, but just two months passed, yeah. But even I I see these results even now that the the interest are huge and we will try to keep it uh forward. And how do people get involved in the Dark Side AI initiative? And I'm sorry, I called it Dark Web AI.

• 32:56Craig S. Smith?

  Initiative, but how do people get involved in the Dark Side AI initiative? Is there a website? Do you have conferences? Do you have webinars? I mean, how are you communicating with people and brainstorming?

• 33:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, we started, of course, with the website Darkside AI and LinkedIn page for this company. And we started with the interesting content to show some numbers, to show, for example, the cases that more than ninety percent of people could not understand we are AI-generated content and we are not. Even like, I think more than ninety-nine percent could not just realize, yeah. And of course, we could not do it by alone. So main idea to engage, involve

• 33:55Speaker 00

  community. And I think the main thing from my side, try to lead it, to engage people and help them also to do something.

• 34:08Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah. And the idea then is you build this community. There is exchange of ideas within the community. And then will you have, you know, maybe committees within the community working on specific solutions that are for problems that are identified? I mean, how do you see it developing?

• 34:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, there are also few streams that we have. We are developing our solution, this modern digital risk protection. And we are ready to invite

• 34:53Speaker 00

  experts who are interested in that.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  To develop with us or to test it. So we already did few projects for free for big companies. To show them the benefits from one side, from another side, of course, to test. In reality, could we bring the value or not? The cool result is that the feedback of customers that we are outperformed than some competitors on the market. So we just spent half a year for team, for people to develop that. And we are already outperformed. Why? Yeah, because this awesome methodology and expertise for the last ten years.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  Because of that. From another side, I already started few projects with the individuals and companies from different markets, even in Japan, who have their own idea to do something. And we will help them. We will help them with technology. We will help them with our expertise. Sometimes we are even ready to invest our money in that if it is really interesting.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  And so on.

• 36:14Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah. You have some data about the increase of AI-driven fraud. Was this your number to expect it to grow?

• 36:31Craig S. Smith?

  From 12 billion in 2023 to 40 billion of fraud by 2027? Is that your number?

• 36:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's growing. It's growing extremely because even, you know, like the most, the biggest fraud in finance, when CE4 paid.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  Because he received even the call from CEO, Zoom call from CEO.

• 37:04Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah.

• 37:05Speaker 00

  It was messages and then it was called and he did not realize that it was E I generated uh CEO on the call by Zoom and so on. So just one more time, imagine.

• 37:16Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  What's going on? Yeah. And yes, I see that it's growing. And of course, from one side, the most um the areas that are most dangerous, of course, it's finance, because it's a lot of uh it's about money. So of course, it's one of the target for criminals. From another side, it's all that uh um I about content, so that's why media and all these uh public institutions. But from another side, we see that it's not only about finance, because it's

• 37:57Speaker 00

  all industries uh are connected to that. And uh I think that criteria even not about um from criminals are not about um like banks, they have money, we should do something, yeah. They are looking at

• 38:16Speaker 00

  enterprises and small and media companies that have more bridges that are not secured. And then choosing the goal for them and doing that. So unfortunately, it's not like something that only the most richest and biggest company could be the targets. No. That we see uh and why also, you know, when you when criminals had the hundreds um of people to did something, the ROI.

• 38:57Speaker 00

  Of that.

• 38:59Speaker 00

  Should be bigger, yeah. Now, few developers in the AI.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Now decrease the costs for any attacks. And that's why they could choose not only enterprises for that. And

• 39:17Speaker 00

  that's the change.

• 39:19Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah. So, so you're inviting enterprises, researchers, policymakers, individual experts, etc. to join the initiative.

• 39:32Craig S. Smith?

  And, and to do so, they can start by visiting www.darksideai.io. Is that right?

• 39:44Speaker 00

  Yes, really, we'll be glad. We have a lot of experience and expertise in all this data. So if you have ideas or if you see any risks and you want to research it, we will be glad to help you and to do something together to benefit and to secure the world, the digital sphere and our lives, definitely.

• 40:10Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah. And then social links. How does somebody contact social links if they want to use your solutions?

• 40:20Speaker 00

  The same thing that social links.io, the website, and you could also send us the request. And you could find a lot of open cases, materials about social links. So honestly, it's much, much easier to find us and to see.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  We have produced a lot of content landscape documents. So there are a lot of things how you could find us for the last 10 years. And that's why the Darkside AI, we just launched two months that we are on the market.

• 40:56Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah. And this is this is a global initiative, Darkside AI. I'm sorry, Darkside AI. Is that right? How you said that social links has customers in, in 90 some countries. How many countries are? Are there participating in Darkside AI so far? Is it primarily a US initiative?

• 41:23Speaker 00

  No, there are no limits, and that's also one of the our main expertise that we are working with more than ninety countries and we see these sometimes some specific cases, but sometimes not. So why also because, you know,

• 41:51Speaker 00

  I was asked, interesting question a few weeks ago, who are that criminals? So you know, like, who are they? What mean criminals? And my, one of the person said that it's like, I don't know, like, few students who are doing some bad things. But criminals, it's the same huge enterprises with the legal department, sales department, marketing department, security department. In reality, it's a huge organization with a lot of professionals. And if you will look at the structure in this company,

• 42:36Speaker 00

  it's the same that you could see in the biggest S and P five hundred companies. They're super professional guys. And based on that, when they are doing something, in most cases, they're also global. They don't want to look like at one country in one market. Why? Yeah, this is digital sphere. You could do anything from anywhere. So there are a lot of, of course, there are a lot of regional specific projects.

• 43:06Speaker 00

  And one of the last specific that I saw it was connected to Japan. Yeah, because there are a lot of specific in Japan in reality, even for example, language. Yeah, and so on, so on. But from another side, even Japanese organizations are not secured now. So I mean, there are, I could not tell any limits or ideas that someone are safety. In reality, I don't see it. So that's why it's fully global, there are no any limitations. And I see that we could bring, that we already did it in so many countries.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  And that's why that we could bring value to any new. So how many, there are something like 250 countries, yeah?

• 44:00Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  In the world. So, okay, we already helped 100, so just 100 more.

• 44:09Craig S. Smith?

  Okay. Okay, well, let's leave it there. Is there anything I didn't ask that you would like to say to listeners?

• 44:21Speaker 00

  I think that one thing, just to finalize it, and it's my, one of my favorite and

• 44:31Speaker 00

  that I believe more that we should educate ourselves.

• 44:36Craig S. Smith?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  So from one side, we or a lot of companies are trying to educate you, to explain you about these threats, about cybersecurity, basic things about digital hygiene and so on, so on. But we should realize it. For example, I have two children. My daughter is eight and my son 13. And I already helped my son to find the cybersecurity courses for children to look at that. Because they will live.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  In this sphere, in this world, and we should start it, for example, the same like in my in my children's international school. They watched the cinema. There is a cinema on Netflix about social media platform, how they influence on people, how they influence on children, because you know, there are a lot of children who are fully disappointed because no one like them. What's with no one like you? Because I have not so many likes in any social media. So just the mindset of children, yeah, that they are not successful because they have a lot of likes, they have a small amount of likes, yeah?

• 45:58Speaker 00

  So that's, and it's cool example also that if you will start with your children to look at this sphere, you will find a lot of interesting things for you. So that's why you should think about yourself by your own. And that's one of my advice, start it immediately now, don't wait anything.

• 46:22Craig S. Smith?

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