[EXPLICIT] The Punk Iconoclast on GMO’s, The “V” Word & Expanding Consciousness

S$#*t's about to get raw. Authentic. And real. Back by popular demand, Cro-Mags' frontman John Joseph– aka “Bloodclot” — returns to the podcast today to do what he does best – light fires, blow stuff up and burn the house down. All for the sake of getting people to wake up, expand consciousness and take control of our lives. Weaned from the ailing womb of Scorsese's Mean Streets, JJ is a true American original. Lower East Side thief, abuse survivor, drug dealer & brawling gutter rat reborn as spiritual warrior. CBGB Street Poet. Punk-ass Robin Hood. Plantpowered Ironman. Spiritual evangelist. A life story so astounding it echoes some demented amalgam of Bukowski, Hugh Selby, Jr., Jerry Stahl, Eckhart Tolle & Paramahansa Yogananda. Plus he can write. His tale of survival is so vividly depicted in his autobiography Evolution of a Cro-Magnon, it's currently being adapted into a movie. And July 2014 brings Harper Collins' wide release of his previously self-published (and currently out-of-print) cult hit Meat is For Pussies*– with a foreword by yours truly. But more anything, this boy can spin a yarn. JJ's first appearance on the podcast was a massive hit, and we barely scratched the surface of John's ability to opine and pontificate on a vast array of subjects — life on the streets, GMO's, Monsanto, the strange history of Aspartame, the power of meditation, the importance of expanding consciousness, the problems with the “V” word, what it means to be truly punk in this post-millenia era, and why meat really is for pussies. If you're new to the show, be sure to check out JJ's previous appearance in RRP 41. It's like a bomb exploding in an elevator. Enjoy! Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Rich Roll?

  Welcome to episode 66 of the Rich Roll Podcast with John Joseph.

• 1:24Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Happy holidays. I am Rich Roll. I am your host. This is the Rich Roll Podcast. What do we do here? Well, each week, I bring to you the best and the brightest minds in health, wellness, fitness, nutrition, with one goal in mind: to help you unlock and unleash your best, most authentic self. I've had all kinds of people on the show: world-class athletes, doctors, nutritionists, lawyers, yoginis, yogis, meditators, spiritualists, entrepreneurs, the whole gamut. And, you know, I don't agree with everybody that I have on the show, and I wouldn't want it that way, anyway. You don't learn anything unless... You have people on that have different ideas from you that help you broaden your perspective.

• 2:08Rich Roll?

  I only ask that you listen with an open mind, take what resonates with you, discard the rest. It's cool. And again, the idea is to help give you the tools that you need to improve your life, to maximize your short time on this planet, so that you can be the healthiest, most present, most actualized version of yourself. And today on the show, I've got a great guest. If you're a fan of the show, if you've been listening for a while, then you might remember episode 41, John Joseph. He just made a small appearance in the best of episode. John is a good friend of mine, and that episode was by far one of my most popular ones. I was recently in New York and thought I would be remiss if I did not

• 2:49Rich Roll?

  sit down with him again. He's not short on words, and one episode is not enough to pick that guy's brain. And I find him fascinating. His story is extraordinary. He is a survivor, growing up reared on the mean streets of the Lower East Side of New York City, and come out the other side to be an amazing example of selfless service to others. If you're new to the show and you've never heard of John Joseph, who is he? Well, he is the iconic frontman for the punk rock band, The Cro-Mags. He's a wellness warrior. He's a plant-based Iron Man, in addition to being a rock star, and he's also an author. His

• 3:32Rich Roll?

  autobiography is called Evolution of a Cro-Mag, and he wrote a book, another book that came out in 2010. It was self-published called Meat is for Pussies, which is sort of a primer on, on the role of meat and how it becomes identified as masculine, and why we all could benefit from eating more plants and getting plant-based. It was a really cool book. Unfortunately, out of print now, very difficult to find. But the good news is that Harper Collins has picked up the book, and they are going to be re-releasing it this spring. And John spent the better part of the last year revising the book.

• 4:11Rich Roll?

  Beefing it up, adding new sections and turning in a new version of the book that's 10 times better than the last one, which was great in and of its own right. So we talk a little bit about that today. It's pretty exciting. And I know that Harper has big, high hopes for the book, and I think it has the potential to be a real breakout hit. And I'm excited to see that happen. John is opinionated. He is outspoken. He is also explicit in his language. So if you're a little queasy about that, just a heads up. Or if you're at work or driving around with kids or something like that, you might want to stick the earbuds in, just letting you know upfront. But please do not tune

• 4:55Rich Roll?

  out on that basis, or you will be missing out on some amazing information. We talk about a lot of amazing stuff today. GMO is the evolution of how aspartame became FDA approved, and all kinds of good, crazy, awesome information. Before we get into the episode, it's the holiday season. In fact, it's only a couple of days before Christmas. Last minute shopping. You're on Amazon going crazy. What can I get delivered overnight? We ask that if you want to support the podcast, use the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com. Just go to richroll.com. It's on the right hand margin there. Click it, takes you to Amazon, get whatever you're going to get. And it will not cost you one cent extra, but Amazon kicks

• 5:36Rich Roll?

  us a little commission on it that does not come out of your pocket. It comes out of their pocket. And that really has been floating our boat over here. It's been paying all our podcast bills, and we are so appreciative, appreciative, appreciative of the support. You guys have really outdone yourselves with this, and it means a lot to us. I know it's kind of a mental leap, just that extra micro millisecond to go to my site first before Amazon. But the fact that you guys are doing it is awesome. I appreciate it. One more thing before the interview. Stitcher, Stitcher Radio has a, they are accepting

• 6:18Rich Roll?

  submissions right now for their best of podcast for the year. And it would be great if you've been enjoying the program, if you would go to Stitcher.com and click on the Stitcher Awards banner, and vote for us for best health and lifestyle podcast for 2013. That would be cool.

• 6:43Rich Roll?

  Ladies and gentlemen, my friend, the outspoken, iconic John Joseph. Enjoy.

• 6:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man.

• 6:58John Joseph?

  Oh, Rich Roll.

• 7:00Rich Roll?

  We're back.

• 7:01John Joseph?

  Back in the hot seat.

• 7:02Rich Roll?

  Number two, man.

• 7:03John Joseph?

  Number two, whoa, don't say that.

• 7:04Rich Roll?

  By popular demand. Why? Why not say that?

• 7:06John Joseph?

  Number two means, you know, you took the dump.

• 7:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, hopefully this will be better than that.

• 7:11John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 7:11Rich Roll?

  But maybe just as satisfying.

• 7:13John Joseph?

  Yeah, man. You know, it was bugged out because we ate at Candle last night and then the English girl came out with her mother. And she said, oh, I heard about Candle 79 because you and Rich talked about it on the podcast. That was kind of trippy, right?

• 7:28Rich Roll?

  I know. It was insane. Actually, that's the, I love coming to New York. It's the third time. I've been here like a day and a half. It's the third time someone stopped me on the street and said, hey, you know, are you Rich Roll? I listen to the podcast. Of course, they were all in front of vegan restaurants, so it's not like it just happened randomly in the middle of nowhere. But yeah, we come, we have dinner at Candle Cafe, Candle 79 last night, which if you're listening and you're in New York City, you gotta go to this place. It's incredible. Food is unbelievable.

• 7:55John Joseph?

  Unbelievable. All organic.

• 7:56Rich Roll?

  Organic, plant-based restaurant. And it was you, me, Mishka and his girlfriend Lucy. Awesome time. And we're leaving and this British girl rolls up. She's like, hey, are you Rich Roll? I listen to the podcast. I'm only, she was visiting from London with her mom. And the only reason she was at the restaurant is because she had heard us talking about it on the podcast. And then I go, yeah, John Joseph's standing right there. She freaked out. I mean, how weird is that?

• 8:25John Joseph?

  It's crazy. Yeah.

• 8:26Rich Roll?

  I know. Amazing.

• 8:27John Joseph?

  Got a lot of legs on that first podcast there.

• 8:31Rich Roll?

  Dude, I think it might be the most popular episode that I've done. So you're, you're definitely back by popular demand.

• 8:38John Joseph?

  My, my girl was like, you saw the text. She drew her heart around the picture of us.

• 8:43Rich Roll?

  Right, I know.

• 8:44John Joseph?

  It's a bromance.

• 8:46Rich Roll?

  It is, man. It's cool. Always good to connect with you.

• 8:49John Joseph?

  Good people, man.

• 8:50Rich Roll?

  And I'm excited for all the good stuff that's coming your way coming up, man. It's gonna be a big year for you.

• 8:56John Joseph?

  Yeah, you know, I'm just doing my meditations and keeping everything level-headed, but uh, yeah. So Harper Collins picked up the book.

• 9:05Rich Roll?

  That was the thing in the last podcast, there was like a mad rush on people trying to track down Me's for Pussies and I got all these messages, tweets and emails like, "I tried to get it, I can't find it, where do I find the book?" And when you first released it, what year was that?

• 9:20John Joseph?

  2010.

• 9:22Rich Roll?

  And that was, was it a, it was self-published?

• 9:25John Joseph?

  We, Todd Irwin, who's my business partner in Loudspeaker, put the book out.

• 9:32Rich Roll?

  What's Loudspeaker?

• 9:33John Joseph?

  It's our LLC, cause we wrote, I wrote a movie and we're in, you know, development of a reality show, based on what we do, which is help heal people and, you know, PMA, positive mental attitude and work with people. So, everything's coming through our production company.

• 9:59Rich Roll?

  Right, I got you.

• 10:00John Joseph?

  Cause I'm kind of a loud dude, so they called it Loudspeaker.

• 10:04Rich Roll?

  Loudspeaker. You want to call it Blood Cloud Industries?

• 10:07John Joseph?

  Nah, man. I got a, I got a film coming about the Blood Cloud Brothers, which is me and my two brothers and stuff, a comedy, obviously. But, yeah, so, you know, Harper Collins, Wave, picked up, picked up the book.

• 10:24Rich Roll?

  How did that happen? So, so you self-released it? You did a limited run, so you, you ran out of print copies?

• 10:30John Joseph?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:31Rich Roll?

  I think you can buy it if you go to eBay or something like that for some top dollar amount, like crazy amount of money to buy it.

• 10:36John Joseph?

  Somebody wrote, wrote me today that Amazon, somebody's got the book up there, The Evolution of a Cro-Magnon, which is my other book, for like $80 or something. I just told people, you know, "Don't, don't buy it." The book's coming out end of June, July. And the way it all went down was,

• 11:00John Joseph?

  I got a lot of movement. I wrote this screenplay and based on the first book Evolution. And um, you know, it was just like not like, I don't know, people in the industry, they get so many films, you know, because you write as well, but like it just sat in a pile and then like, uh, my friend Dante Ross gave it to Flower Pictures.

• 11:24Rich Roll?

  Which is true. That's true. Barry Morse.

• 11:25John Joseph?

  Yeah. And uh, so I didn't hear nothing. And then all of a sudden, like a month later, month and a half, like Dante calls me up. He's like, yo, they bugged on your script. Like they want to meet. She's coming into town. So I met with them and.

• 11:40Rich Roll?

  It's sure her partner, Drew's partner is Nancy Juvenon, right? Who's married to Jimmy Fallon, I think.

• 11:46John Joseph?

  Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, but I'm talking with one of the VPs over there.

• 11:51Rich Roll?

  Development.

• 11:51John Joseph?

  Yeah. Development, uh, VPs. And then, um, so then.

• 11:55Rich Roll?

  So is there any, is there any, uh, development on that since the last time we talked about it?

• 11:59John Joseph?

  Uh, yeah, well, they, they sent it to my friend who's a director and see if she wants to sign on to it.

• 12:06Rich Roll?

  That's Patty Jenkins.

• 12:06John Joseph?

  Yeah. You know, when, you know, I mean, she's really busy. She has an amazing film coming that everyone's going to be hearing about, which I, I don't want to really drop the name because we're just having issues over whatever. But she's an amazing, she's married to Sam Sheridan, who wrote all the books, uh, A Fighter's Mind and, you know, um, he was in that movie Warrior, the, the MMA movie and.

• 12:30Rich Roll?

  I just listened to an interview with her not that long ago and she, she was doing the press circuit because she, uh, she created.

• 12:38John Joseph?

  Betrayal.

• 12:39Rich Roll?

  The television show Betrayal, which is on ABC.

• 12:41John Joseph?

  Yeah, ABC.

• 12:42Rich Roll?

  Um, so she was doing the junket on that. She, it was on, uh, KCRW. It was a show called The Business. They talk about that kind of stuff. And, and I think she was, she was cagey about her movie. She didn't want to talk too much about her movie, but on the TV show, what's interesting about that, if you haven't caught it, um, it's sort of about, uh, it's kind of a love triangle or these two people kind of meet. They're both married and it's about, um, you know, searching for happiness. How long do you stay in an unhealthy relationship? All this kind of stuff. But there's a character in the show who, uh, Who's the son of kind of the Baron of Chicago real estate?

• 13:15John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Rich Roll?

  And he's a little off, he had a car accident, but he, but he was really into the music scene. And in almost every episode, he's wearing a Cro-Mags T-shirt. And I'm like, oh, that's Patty's, you know, signature there, a little shout out to you.

• 13:27John Joseph?

  Patty hit me up and asked me to send her a bunch of stuff and, you know. I mean, she got, like, I went to the premiere of, uh, Monster, cause in case anyone doesn't know, Patty directed and wrote Monster and Charlize won the Academy Award for the screenplay. I mean, without the screenplay and the directing,

• 13:46Rich Roll?

  Of course.

• 13:47John Joseph?

  then nobody gets the Academy Award.

• 13:48Rich Roll?

  And the sheer force of will that it took to birth that movie, because that movie came out against all odds.

• 13:54John Joseph?

  Amazing.

• 13:54Rich Roll?

  Nobody, you know, it wasn't like she was a big name director and it was very, you know, ballsy to cast somebody like Charlize Theron in that, in that role. And nobody ever thought, thought that anything was going to come of that movie. It was going to be a directed DVD kind of thing.

• 14:07John Joseph?

  I mean, when I went to the, I mean, Patty comes from the punk rock scene. That's how I know her and like, they were like looking at me all fucking inked up and like, I'm sitting in the, in the row with like Charlize Theron and everybody else. And Patty was working the red carpet and they're like, so how do you know Patty?

• 14:26Rich Roll?

  Who's the gutter rat, gutter rat guy?

• 14:29John Joseph?

  Did this dude fucking, you know, crash out shit? Like, what's up? But yeah, Patty comes from punk rock and I mean, I, I love her because of what she endured to get where she is. Nobody gave her nothing. She waited tables at dojo downtown, put herself through all this, through her whole film stuff and, and, and, you know, I mean, she's got serious street cred, man. She is nobody to play with and like, you know, I told you that story last night. She punched this like big, uh, Rasta black dude that, you know, he was a bully. And Patty punched him in the face with a beer mug and slit his whole face open. Cause he fucked with her and called her a dumb white bitch and big mistake.

• 15:14John Joseph?

  But yeah, Patty is um, she's an amazing person and I'm so happy.

• 15:20Rich Roll?

  So she's still attached to that project and?

• 15:22John Joseph?

  Um, she's doing, I mean.

• 15:25Rich Roll?

  She's got her other stuff.

• 15:26John Joseph?

  But she's got a new movie, um, you know, coming and stuff, which is gonna be, I mean, I know the premise of it. It's gonna be, you're gonna be hearing all about this because like a few people I know that are writers read the script and they just fucking bugged. They're like, wow, but uh, so what happened with me was that um, back to the other thing. Um, we got movement on the script. So then my business partner, Todd, used that to get the agent and ICM and then he was like, uh, the Thug Kitchen blog. Uh, they were shopping a book deal. So oddly enough, we're sitting down there with our agent from ICM in the lobby of Harper Collins.

• 16:09John Joseph?

  And the assistant comes down and she's like, oh, she looked at me and she goes, oh, um, you must be with the Thug Kitchen people. And I was like, you know, damn girl, like, you know, looking at me or whatever. And I was like, uh, no, we're meters for pussies. And she was like, oh, oh, oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Um, so then we went upstairs and I looked at my agent. He's like, very interesting. Like they were coming in the same day to pitch.

• 16:37Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 16:38John Joseph?

  But, you know, when I first heard about those guys online, I was reading their shit and, you know, they were like, you gotta eat your motherfucking kale. It got, you know, mad. Like I thought it was a dude from the street. And I was writing them like, yo, I love your blog and they would never respond. Like, and I'm like, that's weird. And um, then I find out it's like this nerdy, white dude and his girlfriend in California.

• 17:06Rich Roll?

  Right, putting on all this affectation about what they're doing.

• 17:08John Joseph?

  So that when I walked in to pitch the book, I said, let me tell you something. I'm the real motherfucking Thug Kitchen. And the lady was like, and had, you know, was like. I don't care what you have to do. I want this book. Cause we pitched it for fifteen minutes and talked and just what they do, we, we vibed because Julie from Harper was friends with Brendan and Brendan Braiser and you know, and, and so then, you know, so that all this stuff is going on now with like the TV show and I'm writing a pilot for another scripted TV show and the script's got legs. And so it's, it's kind of like this big ball of momentum coming of, you know, when you work hard, you know, it's like what Alan Ball said when everybody congratulated him.

• 17:53John Joseph?

  Oh, you're an overnight success. And he said, oh, yeah. Yeah. Un-American Beauty. And he was like, yeah, it only took me 10 years to become an overnight success.

• 18:01Rich Roll?

  Right of toying in obscurity.

• 18:03John Joseph?

  Exactly. And, and that's what writing is. You know yourself, uh, being a writer and you just have to like, sit down and write every day. And if you do it, then you know.

• 18:12Rich Roll?

  You can't be, uh, you can't be attached to the outcome. You have to love the process of it and, you know, be willing to show up for it every day, regardless of what happens. And that's the only way you can stay sane through the whole thing.

• 18:25John Joseph?

  Right. And that's Bhagavad Gita. You have a right to the work, but not the result of the work. If you do something, even music, you see all these guys, you know, cause I've been on the music scene, you know, 30 plus years and like, whatever's hot, like, you know, when the emo or the grunge, like everybody's changing with like the weather, like the seasons and really not doing it from a place of purity and the love of the music. They're trying to, you know, imitate what's hot at the point. And all those bands are gone and here the Chromags are still out doing it because we just did it for the love of the music and not for the money or whatever. It was always about, you know, going out there and putting on the best show and, and.

• 19:07Rich Roll?

  Just being authentic to who you are. Yeah. So with all this stuff going on, the pilot, the, the book and, and actually to backtrack a little bit, uh, so this new release of Meat is for Pussies, that's coming out through Harper Collins in June. You did quite a bit of a re, of rewriting though. This is going to be, if for people who have already read it, this is going to be a little different, right?

• 19:27John Joseph?

  Yeah. New chapters. Uh, by the way, Mr. Rich Roll, I have the honor of, uh, having you write the foreword for the book, which is, I mean, they just, you wrote such an amazing foreword. They, I mean, you know, top people in the literary world would just. You know Harper Collins is like the creme de la creme and they've absolutely flipped out on it.

• 19:52Rich Roll?

  I'm glad to hear that.

• 19:53John Joseph?

  Yeah dude, they loved it. They, I mean, it was so well-written and just, you know, because I asked you actually to write the afterword and then like I was like, wait a minute, this is kind of, and then you're like, you know, you sent me the message, you know, like I wanted to tell you, I, I, you know, that I wrote the foreword.

• 20:10Rich Roll?

  Well, first of all, it was an honor for you to even ask me to contribute at all. I was happy to do it. And it started off with, hey, I want to, you know, I want to profile a couple of athletes in the book. Will you send me a picture? Maybe I'll interview you. I was like, cool, man, whatever you need, dude. Like, I'm, I'm here for you. Just to be of service to whatever, you know, the book, to make your book the best it can be. And then something happened and you said, hey, you know, what would you think about writing the afterword? And I was like, yeah, man, it's cool. And then you're like texting me every day, like, because you're on a deadline. You're like, I have to turn it in on this day. I have to turn, you know, I'm like, don't worry, dude. Like you said, uh, this is not my first rodeo. Like, I got it, man. I got your back. Don't worry about it. And then on the last day, I sent it in to you, but here was my, my thinking was, I'm going to hit this one out

• 20:53Rich Roll?

  of the park. And I wrote it. I go, this, I'm actually going to write the foreword to the book, but I'm not going to tell them that.

• 20:59John Joseph?

  Well, the powers that be, the light came on. I was like, this is the, you know, this is the foreword.

• 21:06Rich Roll?

  So my plan worked out. I was gonna, I was gonna write that in the email to you. And then I was like, oh, then I'll jinx it.

• 21:11John Joseph?

  Yeah, but right away, I was like, yo, this, you know, they read it and they were like, this is the foreword. And I was like, yeah, that's the same thing I thought.

• 21:19Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, I'm glad that worked out. I'm, I'm honored to be included in the book. So I'm looking forward to it. So what, what else is different about it?

• 21:26John Joseph?

  There's new chapters. Um, we added about five new chapters, uh, updated all the information. And it was, I mean, so much has transpired, uh, since that book came out with the plant-based, You know, movement and I mean even Forks Over Knives wasn't even out.

• 21:44Rich Roll?

  Wasn't even out.

• 21:45John Joseph?

  When I put that book out.

• 21:46Rich Roll?

  So there's a lot that's happened.

• 21:47John Joseph?

  And then my trainer, who is a NASM master instructor and plant-based trainer, he's a beast. Aronzer Zawanowski did a 30-day workout plan. Uh, with me. And so that's in there. And there's mental toughness, training tips for every one of the 30 days from, you know, guys like you, Brendan, my friend who's a Navy SEAL, Green Berets, like, like the whole gamut. Uh, of just people who had to push past mental stuff to accomplish amazing things in their life. Because that's really an important part of the whole process.

• 22:29Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. It's not just about like, do you have kale on your plate?

• 22:33John Joseph?

  Yeah. You have to be mentally tough and, and, and, you know, pro iron men and UFC fighters, uh, you know, all contributed. James Wilks, who's a good friend.

• 22:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 22:45John Joseph?

  And, uh, and then there's new recipes from raw food chefs and all kinds of people. You have a couple of those transitional kind of meals. Cause I'm not so anal about like, oh my God, you eat wheat gluten. It's like, dude, you know, give me a break. Like, you know, just cause you may be raw foods now, whatever. That's not for everybody. And, you know, I tried to put something in there for everyone. So that, um, you know.

• 23:13Rich Roll?

  Right. So, um, just to backtrack though, a little bit, if somebody's brand new to the podcast, maybe they didn't listen to the other episode. Uh, and if you haven't, you should go back and listen to it. I think it's episode 41 where we get into this in more depth. But if you're new, just lay out what meat is for pussies is the book, because it's a lightning rod title. You got in a little trouble or a little.

• 23:33John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Rich Roll?

  Little controversy over that when it came out before.

• 23:36John Joseph?

  I mean, you know, who attacked me the most was all these bull crap politically correct vegans were just like up in arms, like.

• 23:44Rich Roll?

  Well, this is like the thing that kind of goes on in this subculture where they can all be their own worst enemies. There's like a big controversy right now happening in, in the fruitarian community over like Durian Rider and the Woodstock Fruit Festival and all of that. And regardless of where you come down on that, the point kind of remains the same, which is that, that there's a tendency to lose sight of the bigger picture or the more important things like within the vegan world or the plant-based world, there are all these subcategories, right? People who believe this way or one way and, and there's a lot of kind of infighting that occurs or, you know, sort of just debate.

• 24:22Rich Roll?

  That I think for the general public, you know, the mass population at large, they look at that from the outside and it, it becomes off-putting to them. And so something that they might benefit from or learn from or be interested in, they end up turning away from it.

• 24:38John Joseph?

  Well, that's one thing.

• 24:39Rich Roll?

  We're aligned in our, you know, in our sort of willingness and desire to transcend that a little bit.

• 24:45John Joseph?

  I mean, I never call myself a vegan for that reason, even though I am, I don't wear leather, I don't use anything with any animal products, but I refuse to be labeled by that title because to me, food is not the all-in-all. And that's the thing, those people, it's like they're staying stuck on stupid. They're like, you know, foodie is what I call them. It's like everything's about, you know, food and like they get so anal about everything, they miss, like you said, sight of the big picture.

• 25:13Rich Roll?

  The food is just the start. The food is like a, a portal to a greater, you know, awareness.

• 25:19John Joseph?

  Evolution of consciousness and that's what it's all about. That's what I deal with, like, you know, that's why to me, I'm like, I, I, most of the people that are involved in this whole movement, I hang out with maybe 5% of them and it's guys like you and Brendan, people that James Wilks, you know, that are real down-to-earth and, and open-minded about stuff and, you know, I, like I said, I'd rather go hang out with somebody, eat, you know, that eats McDonald's and is, and is cool, that's open-minded, you know, just like even last night, your friend.

• 25:55Rich Roll?

  Mishka.

• 25:55John Joseph?

  Mishka, the author and, uh, you know, ultra runner, like he, you know, i- it was so cool to talk to him now. Am I gonna sit there and judge him because he eats whatever? No, I deal with people. Uh, you know, at one point I was yamming hamburgers and I would eat meat that. Fucking nobody else would eat, rotting, uh, you know, I was starved as a kid. I would like steal rotting, green molded meatballs out of like. Diners, that's how hungry I was. So who am I to judge anybody? And that's the thing, when all you care about is food, you could be, be, become obsessive about it and. I don't wanna do that. I'm like, okay, eat your fucking kale and move on. Let's get on to some bigger. Bigger, bigger issues that's going on in the world and that's really.

• 26:39John Joseph?

  You know, I got my hands in everything, man, helping kids who are incarcerated. I mean. All kind, feeding the homeless, all kinds of stuff, you know?

• 26:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we were talking about this last night, you know, there's this bifurcation of people that get into this way of eating. And they either come into it from the ethical point of view, like they're animal rights people, or they come in for health reasons. But I think, we were talking about this, I think that what happens is, once you sort of make this transition and you clean up your diet and you start to realize that. This has sort of a domino effect on all sorts of aspects of your life, from your consciousness to your perspective, the way you interact with people. That this world of, of, this distinction between ethics or morality and health and diet. Start to merge, that it really is one thing, it becomes the same thing. And I think you, you know, you're kind of in many ways, the embodiment of that. Because it is for health, but it's also.

• 27:33Rich Roll?

  Health and, health and morality is not, is no longer like a distinction with, with you in your life.

• 27:38John Joseph?

  Right, because that's what happens as you start to eat, like the bad brains are the ones that got me into it, like, you know, they got me into the raw foods. There's Sound Man, the late J W Lee was, you know, raw foods and so I started. Uh, simultaneously get, getting books on philosophy and, and all this other stuff, but also cleaning. The carcass out of my system and, you know, which affects your consciousness and. You know, it it was a simultaneous, for me, it's two, two, you know, there's two tips on that spear. And it's, you know, I'm doing it because I care about animals. And it's also for health reasons as well, because I'm training. And that's the thing I always tell these people.

• 28:22John Joseph?

  You people are so nice and you go to animal sanctuaries and then you treat each other like shit and you treat other people like shit. So where's the compassion for the people? Where's the compassion for your fellow man, you know, or sister out there? And that's what it's all about. And that's why people get turned off by the whole thing. Because, you know, some of these people's attitudes are just like, I'm just not down with it, man. I I come from the streets of New York. I keep it real with everybody. And, you know, that's, uh, that's how I roll.

• 28:55Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 28:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah. All right. And, uh, yeah, I mean, speaking of, of, of this, you know, idea of veganism and how it can divide rather than unite. Um, you actually have a chapter in your book titled.

• 29:13John Joseph?

  I won't. Nah, I don't wanna say it.

• 29:15Rich Roll?

  All right, we won't say it.

• 29:16John Joseph?

  My book ain't coming like.

• 29:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, usually before the podcast, I sit down and go, is there anything you don't want to talk about? Usually, and usually the answer is no, but I forgot to ask you about.

• 29:23John Joseph?

  You know what world we're living in now? I like, you know, I'm fifty one. I grew up on the streets of New York. It's like everybody had respect for each other. You know what happened to me when I announced the title of Meat is for Pussies, man? Did somebody went and they read it in an interview and this guy trademarks the websites. Meat is for pussies dot com, meat is for pussies, this, that, the other thing. And then reaches out to me and goes, yo, do you want to buy the the domain names from me? And I was like, yeah, I'll tell you what, there's a park, uh, at the end of, you know, meet me there. Uh, eleven thirty and and come alone, motherfucker, you know?

• 30:05Rich Roll?

  That really happened? What year was that? Because that's like illegal now.

• 30:08John Joseph?

  Like, yeah, like two, right before the book came out. And then I was like, yo, Todd, my my business model, I was like, yo, this dude, like, we went to start. Registering the door and then the dude hit me up on the ma- on the Meat is for Pussies Facebook page and was like, I'm willing to negotiate about, yeah, I'll negotiate with you.

• 30:26Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 30:27John Joseph?

  You know, like.

• 30:28Rich Roll?

  Trolls.

• 30:29John Joseph?

  Yeah, so I just try to keep, you know, everything, yeah, but there's really, there's a, I, I, I, it's not really a chapter, it's kind of like part, a subchapter of a chapter, but it's about that whole attitude and what my stance is on the whole calling myself a vegan or the way these uh people have become obsessed, you know, either with food, like you see with the raw fooders too, it's like motherfucker, if I gotta hear you talk about kale chips and, and flax crackers and sprouted hummus, I'm gonna like beat your head into the ground, shut up, you know?

• 31:04Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 31:04John Joseph?

  Like, I was, I was in pu- um, Pure Food and Wine the other day and this guy just, uh, he's one of these dudes that like, you know, forces his conversation on the people eating next to them and just goes on to this rant for like fifteen minutes about raw foods and this, that, the other thing and I'm like, yo, like, you know, yeah, it's just not my thing, man, you know?

• 31:30Rich Roll?

  So, uh, the idea though of Meat is for Pussies goes beyond this idea that, you know, I mean, I mean, sort of on its face, you read the title and you go, oh, you're, you're, you're a wimp or you're a puss, if you're, if you're eating meat and I think what you're really getting at more is, is don't be a pussy in the context of becoming enslaved by um the sort of general operating system of our society, you know, not, not just believing everything you read and having enough independent thinking and backbone to inquire for yourself and to make the right choices that are in your best long-term

• 32:07Rich Roll?

  interest, not just in health, but in consciousness and living, the way you interact with other people, you know, uh, whether it's your relationship with pharmaceuticals and processed foods and GMOs and all of these things that we've slowly become enslaved to that we've almost welcomed into our, into our lives, like unsuspectingly now we're all. Eating all these foods that are poisoning us and have kind of signed up for this without even being aware of what's being done to us and to not be a pussy is to take a stand and say no and exempt yourself from that equation.

• 32:41John Joseph?

  Right.

• 32:42Rich Roll?

  Fair?

• 32:42John Joseph?

  Absolutely. And I mean, we like, we had the discussion about aspartame and then

• 32:47Rich Roll?

  Right, I wanted to talk about that.

• 32:48John Joseph?

  Mishka, that whole.

• 32:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so get into that. I'm, I'm, I

• 32:51John Joseph?

  Well, let me just backtrack just at one point and what I even say in the intro, because, because the title came, as I said, it was some dude saying that everybody who's a vegetarian or whatever is a, is a, looks like a skinny pussy and that's, you know, so we were trying to come up with a name for the book and then I was like, my, my, my, um, Todd Irwin was like, yo, you need to throw it back in their faces. That's the assumption all these guys make was that I'm gonna be a wimp and weak if I, you know, don't eat meat. So that's, but you know, where the title kind of, because he said vegetarians and vegans were pussies and then Todd was like, nah, man, you gotta,

• 33:32John Joseph?

  I, and I said to him in that conversation, man, fuck that, because what these people don't realize is unknowingly they're consuming these products. And that's what I even say in the introduction of the book. I'm like, if you continue to live a sanitary lifestyle, eating all this poisonous food, you're going to become a pussy dependent upon the pharmaceutical companies to keep you alive and, you know, like, put a Band-Aid over shotgun wounds, which is what you see in this country now.

• 34:02Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, that's exactly, I mean, that's a much better way of putting what I was trying to get at.

• 34:07John Joseph?

  Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.

• 34:09Rich Roll?

  So we're at dinner last night and, uh, and the, the topic of aspartame came up and, and I mean, of course, I know it's not good for you, but I didn't know the extent to which this, uh, essentially conspiracy runs that runs through our culture that allowed this product to come onto the market and you were kind enough to enlighten us. And then I came back to My hotel room and I went on Google and checked it out because I was like, I don't know, man. That sounds pretty crazy what John was saying. I gotta find out and like sure enough, there's tons of websites on this stuff. So break that down.

• 34:41John Joseph?

  GD Searle, man, that's Rumsfeld's brought the patent.

• 34:45Rich Roll?

  So yeah, Monsanto bought GD Searle, which was a, which was a, is it a pharmaceutical?

• 34:50John Joseph?

  Pharmaceutical, yeah.

• 34:51Rich Roll?

  And Donald Rumsfeld was the CEO and they controlled the patent on Aspartame at the time, which had been to, to, at that point in time, at like 1991, had been outlawed. They kept trying to get it on the market for years and years and years.

• 35:05John Joseph?

  For like 16 years.

• 35:05Rich Roll?

  The FDA kept saying, no way, there's no way we're putting this on the market. It's toxic, it's poisonous, it's been linked to the activation of cancer and brain tumors and migraines and all these sorts of problems, right?

• 35:17John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Rich Roll?

  So what happens?

• 35:19John Joseph?

  So, uh, so Donald Rumsfeld, uh, during the minute, the, um,

• 35:26Rich Roll?

  Reagan.

• 35:27John Joseph?

  Reagan administration, uh, one of his good buddies, I'm blanking on the name right now, gets appointed as, um, one of the high judges in the administration and, uh, basically Rumsfeld says, I'm gonna call in my marker as soon as that happens to my buddy. So sure enough, boom, guy gets in there.

• 35:49Rich Roll?

  They get Arthur Hayes, uh, appointed to be the head of the FDA. He was sort of a pawn to these guys, right?

• 35:55John Joseph?

  And he kinda broke the tie of the vote. They started working behind the scenes to convince all these people and.

• 36:02Rich Roll?

  Cause I guess once the FDA denies a product, they can still resubmit every year, right? So they were resubmitting every year.

• 36:10John Joseph?

  And it was getting turned down every year.

• 36:11Rich Roll?

  But then they get Hayes in, they get Hayes in and they resubmit again and they knew he was gonna tip the vote this time.

• 36:17John Joseph?

  Yep, and he tipped the vote in favor and, you know, it got approved.

• 36:22Rich Roll?

  It was like 94 or something like that, I think.

• 36:25John Joseph?

  Yeah, but oddly enough, like even when I posted it today, cause I, I posted that excerpt out of my book, Meat is for Pussies, and all these people were like, dude, ever since I read your book, I had like 10 of those symptoms and I read your book and I, and I, you know, I took everything that I was eating, it contained Aspartame, uh, which now they realized that everyone got hip to Aspartame. So now what you have to watch out with is a additive called amino suite. And that's

• 36:58Rich Roll?

  They renamed it.

• 36:58John Joseph?

  They've re- they've rebranded it because so many people got hip to the aspartame thing. And she said, she told me that as soon as I excluded everything that had, and I went to like, um, you know, natural like coconut sugars or whatever for sweetener. Uh, all of those symptoms went away. Ten, she had ten of those symptoms of all of those symptoms that I was, you know, listing and, um, joint pain, I mean, everything.

• 37:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I think aspartame is in, uh, over six thousand.

• 37:40John Joseph?

  Five thousand.

• 37:41Rich Roll?

  Five thousand food products on the market and, you know, everything for, it's not just the, it's equal, right, is the package wanted, but, but, you know, diet, every diet food, every, every.

• 37:52John Joseph?

  The gum, everything. Just look in, just look in everything. And if you see aspartame in that, that thing should have a skull and bones on it because that was never meant to be consumed.

• 38:04John Joseph?

  You know.

• 38:04Rich Roll?

  By human beings. Yeah, they got it on, they didn't, they never did human trials on it. They just released it.

• 38:10John Joseph?

  Exactly. Which is what they're doing now with the GMOs too. It's like, you know, when you have people that are involved in these companies, Monsanto, Syngenta, and the rest of them, uh, you know, they're funding the research. So it's like, how are you gonna let somebody like that fund the research? Like, even if, you know, like, all these people are coming out against Jeffrey Smith. Cause I posted something on, um, on the Chromag page, oddly enough, that everybody should watch, uh, Jeffrey Smith's, uh, documentary called Genetic Roulette. And I, this guy just comes out and starts attacking me and going back and forth. Sure enough, I click on to his page, guess who he works for?

• 38:55John Joseph?

  Fucking Monsanto dude, I'm like dude, you're a Monsanto scientist, of course you're gonna cite. So every study that I cited, he said was bogus. And every study that he cited, which was done by Monsanto, he said, these are the legit studies.

• 39:10Rich Roll?

  Right, and what were those studies saying?

• 39:12John Joseph?

  You know, just about the safety and, and side effects of, uh, of genetically modified food on human beings, uh, you know.

• 39:20Rich Roll?

  What are the studies that are not funded by Monsanto saying?

• 39:24John Joseph?

  Uh, that it causes, uh, all kinds of, uh, endocrine disruptors, uh, it's, it causes all kinds of diseases, uh, in human beings. I mean, the test trials that they've done, I'm not into animal testing, but it produced, uh, tumors, like just crazy stuff. And now they started putting, um, EpiCyte has been put in this, in the soy, and now it's getting, it's a gene by this company that they put in there, and guess what it does? It disrupts the reproductive system of women, and it kills sperm in men. So, you know, if anyone's having, uh, out there having trouble conceiving, and you know,

• 40:08John Joseph?

  the whole thing about this stuff is all, you may be eating, uh, vegan food or whatever, or vegetarian, but if you start looking into every single thing, like what Dr. Fred Bishy says, any doubt, leave it out, you need to really know where that stuff is, because anything with any type of soy emulsifier or anything, that's coming, ninety-eight percent of all the soy out there is genetically modified, if it does not say organic, non-GMO soy. So you're eating all of these poisonous, um...

• 40:43Rich Roll?

  There's no legal requirement to label these foods, uh, to make sure that the public knows that they contain GMOs.

• 40:50John Joseph?

  Right.

• 40:50Rich Roll?

  A company that is putting a food product out there that is non-GMO will volunteer to make sure that their consumers know that. But there's no obligation to do so. So if it doesn't say non-GMO, it's gonna be GMO.

• 41:05John Joseph?

  Well, the hottest labeling right now in all of the whole food industry is the non-GMO project. That's what everybody's looking for. So the word by people like you doing your show with all the listeners and guys like Jeffrey Smith and all these people that are saying, man, hold on. You know, you got these people, these conglomerates that have billions of dollars to throw out there, stopping the labeling. Like I said, I told the scientist that wrote, I said, if you're so friggin' proud of your product, why don't you let everybody know what it is? You know, let the public know, hey, man, this is our great genetically modified food. And I'll tell you exactly why that is, because in the future, there's gonna be lawsuits

• 41:47John Joseph?

  and they don't want it to be tracked back to them. But now what's going on, you know, people aren't really aware of the re- the reach of Monsanto and these companies all over the world. So now you got guys like Bill Gates coming off as a philanthropist, but he owns millions of dollars in stock in Monsanto.

• 42:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:11John Joseph?

  And he's going over there to Africa, which banned completely GMOs, except for South Africa. And now through the guise of philanthropy, he's saying, oh, yeah, we'll give you this, we'll give you the seeds, you don't have to pay patent fees, you know, all the, you know, Roundup you can possibly, you know, spray on your crops. But what's really going on is those are going to get spread on to other people's farms. And that's what their track record is, is taking control. Because if we look at the history of Monsanto, they're a chemical company.

• 42:49John Joseph?

  Their job is to sell chemicals, okay? Their job, they sprayed Agent Orange, all this stuff that, and their job is to sell Roundup or their pesticides. So if you use their seed, you must use their-

• 43:07Rich Roll?

  You have to use their pesticide. Because their pesticide is specifically designed to

• 43:11John Joseph?

  Genetically engineered.

• 43:13Rich Roll?

  To fit correctly with that seed, right? So, so the progression of the chemical company to sort of creating these Frankenfoods or these seeds that where they've devised this DNA sequence that they can patent and control effectively allows them to control our food system. And when the seeds blow from one farm to the next, these farms become contractors to Monsanto, right? They have these, they have these agreements in place where they have to use these seeds. And then the farm next door may not have that agreement. The seeds blow from one farm over to the next. Then Monsanto has a basis to sue that other farm and say, you're using our seeds without permission. Sign this agreement or we're coming after you.

• 43:56John Joseph?

  And they sue and they win.

• 43:58Rich Roll?

  Predatory, yeah.

• 43:59John Joseph?

  And anybody, if you watch the future of food or any, which is a great one about the politics of the world according to Monsanto and the future of food, get in to what some people that are, um, haven't done the research I have would say is a conspiracy. But it's not a conspiracy because just like you proved with Aspartame, you thought I was out of my friggin mind.

• 44:23Rich Roll?

  No, I didn't, but I was gonna check it out too.

• 44:25John Joseph?

  You know, cuz I'm one of these dudes.

• 44:26Rich Roll?

  I don't, I don't know everything about all this stuff and you know a lot more about GMO stuff than I do.

• 44:30John Joseph?

  Right, cuz I've been, I, I mean, like I said, I remember when they first tried to pass Codex Alimentarius in the early eighties cuz I was working at a health food store and all these hippies were like, you know, bugging out like, yo, they're trying to like take control of the food and stop this whole organic food movement. And sure enough, oh, Codex is you know, going on in Canada now and I think that's why they're attacking. Codex Alimentarius, uh, was originally, it was a food safety, uh, standard, um, by the World Health Organization and the UN or whatever. And it was really to protect the food across the planet. But then these corporations got involved and bought out the whole thing.

• 45:11John Joseph?

  So now you have the pharmaceutical companies and the GMO companies and the rest of them kinda saying wanting, they, they realized, look, if you watch the movie Forks Over Knives, that's the biggest worry that these pharmaceutical companies have because what happens by the end of the movie? The guy throws away all his medication. He doesn't need it anymore. So this is the pharmaceutical companies and the G O, GMO companies. Coming in, getting behind this whole agenda and they're fining uh countries huge amounts of, I mean, I really believe that's why they went after Brendan Brazier in the, in the Canadian government to, to pull his product.

• 45:50John Joseph?

  Where it was like, they were like, they were like, you have to consume really a million pounds of Vega because of this one enzyme that ended up.

• 45:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I knew there was a voluntary recall, but I don't know the story behind it.

• 46:00John Joseph?

  I mean, that's a whole nother issue, but Codex is really, you know, if you look, for instance, now they wanna prescribe that uh um

• 46:11John Joseph?

  you know, like uh supplements and stuff like that, that those are drugs you are gonna have to get a prescription for. And you know, I had um go to, I go to Europe a lot on tour. So somebody did some research and was like in Germany and was like, yo, look at the, look at the dosage of these vitamins. And now look at the dosage of these vitamins uh today. And it was like cut by a fifth. In other words, like, you know, they're, you know, they're making it harder to get herbs, the supplements that people are taking, which are all natural. They're, they're just, you know, basically they want people to be sick. That's what it, it all boils down to.

• 46:55John Joseph?

  And you know, even getting back to the whole, you know, Monsanto thing and, and what's really going on with all of that. It's like, if you look at this movie, this other movie that I uh watched called The Idiot Cycle, this woman tracks that these companies really, you know, Pharmacia was originally, um, you know, these, these companies stem, like I, I put a whole family tree of where these companies all come from that make these uh, you know, Zy, I mean, companies that made Zycon, Zyklon gas that they used in the Holocaust are now making your food.

• 47:37John Joseph?

  You know, and if you track all of these companies, what they're doing is they're putting these poisonous products out there, pesticides in these foods and all of this crap. And then there, those are the subsidiary companies of Big Pharma. Okay, so they get you, it's, it's, it's problem solution.

• 47:59Rich Roll?

  Well, it's a, yeah, they complete the circle.

• 48:01John Joseph?

  And she, yeah, and, and what this woman did was followed the money. And that's what they always tell you to do. Follow the money, where does the money lead? And that's where the money leads to is these pharmaceutical companies. And that's why these guys make astronomical amounts of money. And if you look on Wall Street, who's making the big bucks? Merck, all these companies, you know?

• 48:25Rich Roll?

  It seems like the one place where people have organized sufficiently to rise up against this is in Hawaii. Like the protests that are going on there against GMO and Monsanto, et cetera. That, that seems like the one place where they've got like a center of gravity going on. Have you been following that at all?

• 48:42John Joseph?

  Well, can I tell you that a friend of mine who used to live in New York knows all the organic farmers out there? And here's another wild thing that a lot of people are thinking is a conspiracy theory too. And it's what's coming out of those airplanes that are spraying all over the farms. And I'm talking about the chemtrail issue. Because they, Hawaii is a, it, the ecosystem of Hawaii is cut off from everywhere else. So Hawaii has been, and she told me this too, has been the testing ground for GMOs and chemtrails. So what they do is-

• 49:24Rich Roll?

  I think Monsanto is the largest landholder in, in all of Hawaii.

• 49:27John Joseph?

  Yeah, so what they're doing is they're testing this stuff that they spray and comes down to the earth. And what it does is it changes the pH of the soil. So it becomes so acidic. That the that no organic seeds, they're having less and less yields and that's what she told me. A lot of the farmers out there have had to switch to GMO papaya and all kinds of stuff.

• 49:53Rich Roll?

  That's the only thing that will grow.

• 49:54John Joseph?

  Because and oddly enough, in 2009, a shell company in Brazil patented the aluminum resistant seed, okay, that Monsanto is getting a hold of now too. And that's what they're spraying is aluminum oxide out of those plains and barium and strontium. And that is because they have to control, they want complete, they've said it, these GMO companies have said, we want complete control of the food supply worldwide from farm to table. So they know the only watchdog groups and the people who are living off the grid and doing the organics, well, how do we stop that?

• 50:37John Joseph?

  Okay, well, we'll just go 30,000 feet above them and spray it all into the clouds and seed the clouds and then when that stuff falls to the ground, you know, and if you watch, what in the world are they spraying? There's scientists that studied those soil samples for months and months and months. And, you know, even this guy in Mount Shasta I met in, when I was doing the Ironman in Mexico. And he said, dude, man, everything you're telling me, I live in Mount Shasta, I've seen all that go down, they're spraying that in California where they do all the organics. So it's a huge, it's a huge, huge, huge issue. The food, you know, that's what Kissinger said. If you control the oil, you control nations.

• 51:22John Joseph?

  If you control the food, you control the masses. And that's where the manipulation of what everyone's being, like, I just watched one commercial today during the Army Navy football game and it came on and it was for like Sonic. And I'm like, dude, the food that they were pushing on people to eat.

• 51:43Rich Roll?

  Sonic burgers?

• 51:44John Joseph?

  Yeah, but it was like this foot long hot dog with chili peppers and then chili and then like a shake and like, it's like, you wonder why we are so sick in this country. And it's not just a physical sickness, it's, it's, it's a mental poisoning too, what they're doing to us, you know?

• 52:02Rich Roll?

  Well, if you watch morning television, every other commercial is a pharmaceutical commercial. I don't think in most countries.

• 52:08John Joseph?

  And when they get off work. And when they get off work.

• 52:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 52:11John Joseph?

  The six o'clock news when everybody uh gets off work is all pharmaceutical companies advertising medication. So it's before they go to work and then when they get home, they're greeted by a big pharma.

• 52:23Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:24John Joseph?

  That's why they called the idiot box, man. You know, unplug from that.

• 52:29Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 52:29John Joseph?

  And and rethink everything that you're, you know, that's what I said in my in in meetings with pussies. I'm like, we went looking for WMDs in Iraq, but the the sad fact of the matter is all you have to do is open up your refrigerator and your cupboards. And there lies the real weapons of mass destruction. It's the stuff that, you know, you're putting into your into your family. That's that's the real devastation. That's killed millions of people as opposed to how many people died on nine eleven or through acts of terrorism. I mean, you know, how many people are dying from all these diseases that are foodborne?

• 53:06Rich Roll?

  Right. There's a lot of people that I think can easily get on board with this idea of uh the the ills of GMO foods and the predatory nature of the Monsanto's of the world, etc. But I think when you start to talk about chemtrails, you start to lose people. Like then they start thinking, oh, he's gonna start talking about crop circles next.

• 53:25John Joseph?

  Oh, nah, dude.

• 53:26Rich Roll?

  That's a little bit like, I can't, I can't go there. I can't, I can't get down with the chemtrails thing. Like, that just sounds too crazy.

• 53:33John Joseph?

  You can't? You're saying personally?

• 53:34Rich Roll?

  No, I'm just saying like a lot of people, like mainstream society is gonna tell you you're you're bonkers for talking about chemtrails.

• 53:40John Joseph?

  If if you if you uh if you Google Ted Gunderson FBI, okay, who oddly, he was the head of the FBI for four states. Oddly enough, uh he ended up passing away when he went public that the chemtrail program is actually a real program and they're testing it to manipulate the weather. They do different things.

• 54:03Rich Roll?

  But it seems like if that was if that was going on, that there would be a way for yeah, everybody to verify that pretty easily.

• 54:10John Joseph?

  Well, you know what they do? They mix it in with the jet fuel of of uh of commercial airlines. So, you know, and then there's another company called Evergreen, which is Evergreen Airlines is the ones who are landing at military bases and all that. Just Google Ted Gunderson. Chemtrails on YouTube. That's, and I will say, nothing else about that.

• 54:35Rich Roll?

  Evergreen Airline, that's like the ironic, uh, name of all time.

• 54:39John Joseph?

  Yeah, Evergreen Airline is a private corporation, no markings on the plane, no military. He said, point blank, "This is not a conspiracy theory." This is the head of the FBI who went against all of this stuff that's going on. The, um, you know, the geoengineering program of what the chemtrail thing is all about. It's not, look, it's not a conspiracy theory. They're, it's money. It's money. It's the same reason they're telling you to take all these pills. It's the same reason they, they're stopping the organic movement because they know that that is what's going to heal people, both physically, mentally, spiritually, and they wanna stop, they wanna stop what's going on. I mean...

• 55:23Rich Roll?

  I think it's easier to take that leap of faith also because we're in the age of WikiLeaks and, you know, sort of figuring out what the NSA is really doing and all these things that sounded maybe even just 10 years ago as being insane. Now it's like, because it seems like every week there's some thing comes out where you think, "This is insane. This can't be true." And it turns out that, that it is. And we're starting to open up our eyes and realize-

• 55:47John Joseph?

  Well, look what they did-

• 55:48Rich Roll?

  This matrix-like world that we're living in.

• 55:50John Joseph?

  Look, it's exactly what it is. It's the Maya. It's the illusion. Maya means illusion. That's what the Matrix was all dealing with. Look what they did. You think they don't test on people? Look what they did to all the blacks in South Carolina. They have finally admitted, "We sterilized them and gave them syphilis and all this other stuff." And if you, if someone else wants to really check out, just Google how the US military released viruses into the subway of New York and sprayed it off of ships and let it carry into San Francisco. And it's documented. These are actual documents-

• 56:23Rich Roll?

  I've never heard that.

• 56:24John Joseph?

  That you can, that is 100% fact. If you go on and you do the research, you can actually read the military documents that have been declassified of the tests that they did to test viruses and all kinds of stuff-

• 56:39Rich Roll?

  When did that go down?

• 56:40John Joseph?

  In the 50s, in the 50s. And they, and a Navy ship even sprayed into the air and let it carry into San Francisco. And they tested flu virus, flu viruses and all this stuff. And they did it in New York too. You can actually read about it.

• 56:55Rich Roll?

  Whoa.

• 56:55John Joseph?

  That's the whole thing where people don't- You know, they, when you start to talk about stuff like this, they just think like, you know, I'm not the one smoking weed dude, I'm like.

• 57:06Rich Roll?

  I mean, I think a more accessible example and, and very current is the recent statin guidelines that just came out. Are you, you're down with that, right? Are you up on that a little bit?

• 57:16John Joseph?

  I haven't.

• 57:17Rich Roll?

  So, I, I'm certainly no expert on it. I just know in a general sense that these guidelines just were released that basically, in, in a nutshell said, that essentially, regardless of whether, you know, you're dealing with these, uh, physical ailments that would require you to be on Lipitor, that everybody should do it as a precautionary measure. And they're, they're advising all these doctors to pretty much make sure that, that most people, you know, most sort of people of age, middle-aged, especially men, get on Lipitor, get on these statins. And, I mean, that's a perfect example of follow the money. And where, where is the, where is this intersection of, of government and these regulatory bodies that are supposed

• 58:00Rich Roll?

  to have our interest at heart, and the pharmaceutical companies that stand to profit from these initiatives?

• 58:05John Joseph?

  Well, you know what I say? How many drugs were approved by the FDA and later recalled? How the hell did they get on the market to begin with? To me, FDA stands for forever destroying Americans. That's what I said in my book. Uh, you know, it's just, it's a joke. And if you read, um, a book, uh, Confessions of an, of a, a RX drug pusher by the woman who outed the pharmas, she was a huge pharmaceutical rep, and her niece died from an interaction of a drug that never should have been on the market in the first place. And then she flipped. And she, and she dropped dimes, just like Howard Lyman

• 58:46John Joseph?

  did, the mad cowboy, dropped all the dimes on what the beef industry is doing. She dropped dimes on the pharmaceutical companies. And you read this stuff, and you would think, how the hell could someone ever do stuff like that to people? Put them on drugs they don't need that kills them, and makes them more sick, and paying off doctors, and sending them on vacations, and cars, and trips, and paying off hospitals to put people on drugs?

• 59:15John Joseph?

  This is the, I mean, the, the drug industry in this country, man, is up there with the oil barons, man. These guys, they are so powerful and, you know, I mean, eve- even, you know, um, Monsanto and the rest of them, they, they now hired a wing of, of, uh, of Blackwater to spy on anti-GMO organizations and all stuff like that and keep notes and tabs on everybody. And if you think this government isn't keeping tabs on people that are coming out as activists against all this stuff, then you obviously don't know what this, what the people in this

• 59:57John Joseph?

  government are capable of, because it's no longer a government by the people. It's a government run by corporations to, uh, benefit the corporations and not the masses, you know? And that's why, you know, what you do and all these people, and that's my message too. I don't put stuff out there unless I've researched it. I don't speculate and I'm, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Uh, I do the research and I get the facts. I get to the facts of what's really going on. And then when you start meeting people and talking to them, it's like, you know, the light, you see the light switch come on and, and, you know, they're like, you know, little things get proven all the way along. Now they're starting to say, they're coming out and saying,

• 1:00:42John Joseph?

  you know, it's starting to be put out there that because of global warming, uh, we need to manipulate the weather and control it and the geoengineering program is important. And yes, you know, they're starting to admit that this is going on, but, you know, 10 years ago, if you would have mentioned to somebody about that, they, they, you know, they think you were crazy or about genetically modified food or, you know, that the drug companies are looking out for us, you know, they're, they have our best interest in mind.

• 1:01:14Rich Roll?

  Well, all you have to do is look at the, the anti, the, uh, anti gag laws that essentially prevent anybody from going inside, uh, these, these food companies or livestock, yeah, the livestock producers and, and whistleblowing on what's really going on.

• 1:01:31John Joseph?

  Colorado is a felony.

• 1:01:32Rich Roll?

  So, yeah, I mean, that is a constitutional issue that gets to our rights, our First Amendment rights to, to speak and, and it's a clampdown on. Uh, the flow of, of accurate information about how our food is made.

• 1:01:48John Joseph?

  Yeah, and if you see, uh, Mercy for Animals, who I love, uh, just had an undercover video from, from our Sargenta Cheese Company and what they would do into the cows that provide the, like, these cows had huge sores. One guy was, you know, not even, I mean, the way they were just beating, stabbing these cows and kicking them in the face and they had infections everywhere because you're milking this animal constantly. It's, it's, it's, you know, so of course they don't want you to see that. Of course they don't want you to see how animals are killed and the whole process. You know, last time I was in California, man, we passed one of these CAFOs with like hundred, hundreds and thousands of cows and I was like-

• 1:02:33Rich Roll?

  That one on the five when you're in between San Francisco and LA?

• 1:02:36John Joseph?

  Dude, holy crap!

• 1:02:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Goes on forever.

• 1:02:37John Joseph?

  Dude, and it's, the stench stayed in the car. We saw the lagoons and that's part of the research, uh, that I did was to really, uh, update a lot of the stuff that's going on, um, in terms of environmental issues. Cause if you care about the environment, you know, Meat is for pussies has something for everybody, man, because what those places do to the environment is, I mean, before BP ever spilt all those millions of gallons into the Gulf, there was a dead zone the size of New Jersey in the Gulf of Mexico because of CAFO, which

• 1:03:19John Joseph?

  is, it stands for, excuse me, concentrated animal feeding operation. So they have millions of gallons, these, these huge, um, lagoons of urine and stool from these animals with all this antibiotics and everything and they leak, they rupture, they get into the groundwater, obviously, and then they flow, uh, into the Mississippi and as well as the pesticide residue and it flows to the Mississippi drains in the Gulf. So guess what? All of that nitrogen all- All those toxins killed everything in the Gulf. So before BP ever destroyed the Gulf, they were already destroying the Gulf all life. And, you know,

• 1:04:03John Joseph?

  the ecosystem of the ocean is so fragile, man. That's where we're really gonna start running into problems.

• 1:04:10Rich Roll?

  Well, we already have.

• 1:04:11John Joseph?

  I mean, big time, big, big, big. Now they're testing all this fish because of the Fukushima. Where the hell's that in the news? Well, how come we're not hearing about that? But, you know, I got a friend in the military and he's saying like, you know, dude, this is a real thing, man. The Navy is out there testing those waters. There is radiation on its way to California, big time. So, nobody talks about it. It's like out of sight, out of mind. Nobody's talking about all this stuff that's going down because who, you know, the, the nuclear, uh, you know, companies and all of this stuff

• 1:04:55John Joseph?

  has so much power. And if everybody was flipping on nukes like they did, remember no nukes movement and stuff, you know? Like if everybody started doing that now, they'd be trying to shut nuclear plants down, you know, all over the planet. And that's where a lot of the energy of these countries is coming from.

• 1:05:14Rich Roll?

  So there's, there's all this doom and gloom, right? Where, you know, we're talking about all this really tragic stuff. And it seems like, well, what are you supposed to do? Where's the hope? I mean, where, where's the, where's the solution? And particularly when you, you know, you work with a lot of people that are of a lower socioeconomic class, and you're pushing this organic message. And I would imagine the response is like, I can't, I can't afford organic, right? Where do I get organic? I don't even know where to begin. I mean, where's the path to? Resolving this on an individual level.

• 1:05:48John Joseph?

  Well, you know what brothers that, you know, there's brothers in the ghettos now, urban farming. And these, there's, you know, you can go on, on Facebook, these guys all have pages. And they're going to the hood, man, to all these, you know, burnt out properties in Detroit and everything.

• 1:06:05Rich Roll?

  There's that great Ted Talk of that guy who's doing it in Los Angeles. I forget his name.

• 1:06:08John Joseph?

  Yeah, I forget his name too. But then there's another brother that's in, uh, forget where he is, but he's going into these neighborhoods and he's showing people how to grow their own organic food and build greenhouses and do all this stuff. So it's like, they're just wanting to make you think that it's, it's an unobtainable thing to do. But it's not, it, you know, you start your co-ops, you get all, you know, you get all, you get your stuff going, you know, you, you grow these urban gardens, rooftop gardening. And, and people's doing that in New York City now, organic. I actually met the guy, I went to do the Healthy School Lunch Program with the Candle79 people who,

• 1:06:49John Joseph?

  you know, educate, uh, lower income people throughout the city on eating properly and, and health and education. And I met this guy and he's going around to all these places. And he shows them how to grow organic rooftop gardens, man. And these people are growing like all these vegetables. And like, it's, it's incredible.

• 1:07:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:07:11John Joseph?

  The amount of space that is needed to do that, it's, it's just, everything comes down, it's not, it, what it comes down to is having access, more importantly than anything else, is access to the knowledge. And there's these amazing people out there that are educating people on how to do things on a grassroots level. And that's really what's needed more than anything. Where there's a will, there's a way. But to even get that will, you know, you have to have that seed of knowledge planted within you. That's the nature of the mind, thinking, feeling, willing. You know, first you think about it, then you're willing to do it, then you do it. But if you don't have that, that thought planted in your head that this could be done, it doesn't even come to mind. You just go.

• 1:07:55John Joseph?

  Buy a bag of McDonald's for $2.

• 1:07:58Rich Roll?

  Right, the will- the willingness has to follow the access to information. I mean, I always talk about willingness because you can't, you've got to have the willingness, but before that even comes into play, there has to be an ability to, to act on that willingness or access to the foods or the knowledge or the information.

• 1:08:16John Joseph?

  The seed needs to be planted, man, and, and, and it's, it's a metaphor, you know, in both senses of, of, of the worry, of the, you know, of that thought, because it's like we're dealing with seeds, we're dealing with people trying to control seeds. And it's also the seed of thought of wisdom being planted. And that's why, you know, I try to always pick the brains of like these people who have this knowledge, because my whole thing has always been like breaking it down to street level. I get these brilliant minds telling me stuff and then I try to break it down and be like,

• 1:08:49Rich Roll?

  So when you run into a kid who's, who's going to McDonald's where he can eat a full meal for $2 or whatever on a daily basis, you know, farm subsidized products that are super cheap, how do you connect with that person to get them to think about it a little bit differently or take a different action?

• 1:09:05John Joseph?

  Yeah, well, what I'll say, you know, to that person is like, you have to look long term. You can't just always be in the now. You, you have to think of what this food that you're eating and consuming now, the effect that it's going to have in years.

• 1:09:22Rich Roll?

  That's like telling somebody who's just trying to make it through the day that they got to open up a savings account and put money away. You know, it's like acting in your long-term interest, that's a tricky thing with people.

• 1:09:31John Joseph?

  Well, you know what it is too? I, I also point them to an alternative. It would be better for them to go get a $2.99 uh, hummus sandwich with lettuce and tomato. And those places are all over the place too. There's cheap eats too in the city. It's not always like, you know, five-star dining that these kids could never afford. But, you know, one of the great things is there's, um, there's a website plant based on a budget. You know, there's all this information coming out. And the problem is when people buy all this packaged stuff and all this, it, it is expensive, but the more you can buy bulk and shop for the whole family

• 1:10:12John Joseph?

  and take the money that you would be spending on medications to eat organic, you can eat like a king. You know, if you saw, if you saw, um, Uh, Food Inc. It's like the guy's sitting there, oh, I can't eat like this. And then he's spending by himself three hundred dollars, four hundred thousand a month on medications. His son is pre-type two diabetes. He's gonna be needing medication. The family's spending five hundred thousand a month on medication.

• 1:10:45Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:10:46John Joseph?

  You know, so let's hold up. It's not, it's about the quality of life as well. Because the dude couldn't even walk up a damn flight of stairs from all the sickness and joint pains. He has to take this and that. And if you just change what you're eating, then you don't even need those medications. And you can take all the money that you're utilizing and your time of going to doctors and this and that. I mean, all of that adds up. It's, you have to really show people, I mean, kids, come on, man. You know, when I was a kid, what the hell was I doing? I was out of my, I was out of my fucking mind, man. But, uh, you know, kids, um, these days, what I find,

• 1:11:29John Joseph?

  and I have to tell you that I don't agree with that a hundred percent, that statement, because with the internet and everything, i- it is the information superhighway. And there's a lot of kids that are waking up to what's going on. And like, there's, I think that the kids.

• 1:11:46Rich Roll?

  Well, the kids see the generation that's older than them and, and they don't want to be that. They just see a lot of sick, fat people.

• 1:11:52John Joseph?

  And more and more people going, hey, man, I'm vegan, I'm plant-based. I just, I just was coming up here and this, these three young girls were walking on the subway behind me, I swear to God. And one of them goes, oh, yeah, man, I'm vegetarian now. I haven't even eaten any meat or anything in like three months. And they're like, where did that, why'd you do that? And I'm like, tuning in on this conversation. It's becoming, as more and more down-to-earth people who really know and try to help people out of compassion and the message getting out, these super athletes now and like yourself, you know, voted one of the, you know, twenty-five fittest men in the planet. Like, you know, a- a- and more and more people.

• 1:12:34John Joseph?

  That are in the know. I mean, say what you want about Jay-Z or whatever, but here's the point, man. The fact that he's doing, he went to Tal's Restaurant Crossroads. The fact that he's trying to do it, then all the vegans are like, she's wearing fucking fur, like.

• 1:12:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that was a thing. So, so for people who don't know, Jay-Z and Beyonce announced like a week and a half ago. Hey, we're gonna try eating a plant-based diet for 22 days, right? And, and he even said like, I'm not calling it vegan, I prefer plant-based. And, and immediately there was like this, all sorts of criticism because they're wearing animal products for their clothes, right? And also, oh, why just 22 days? And, and this is like sort of gang rape of these people. And I'm sitting there going, these are two of the most culturally influential people on the planet. And just by them making a simple statement can change millions of people's minds or open them up to a new way of doing things.

• 1:13:32Rich Roll?

  Like, let's celebrate this, meet people where they're at. They're just starting this. They're gonna go on their own journey with it. Maybe they'll abandon it in 22 days, I don't know. Or maybe they'll keep going. And then maybe a year from now, they'll say, hey, you know what? Like, this fur kind of stuff is messed up. Like, maybe we should take a look at that too. And, you know, why am I endorsing Pepsi? Maybe I should think about that too. But you can't expect people to be 100% and, and meet with your expectations perfectly on day one.

• 1:14:00John Joseph?

  Yeah, man. Give people space, let people, you know. The fact is, if every, this is what I said. If everybody on the planet did what he's doing right now for 20, for, for 22 days, we could wipe out all the hunger on the planet, we can feed everybody, we would save the environment, we would save millions of animals that are being tortured for food. So what's the bad thing about that? And like you said, he's, you know, he's an influential cat, man. I know dudes that trained him and, and he's cool, he's down to earth. Like, let the dude do his thing, you know? I know people that also worked with Beyonce, and she's a sweetheart.

• 1:14:43John Joseph?

  And it's like, you know, all these people, oh, they're, they're, you know, you know, for, for uh, the new world order and they hang out with Obama and whatever the hell. It's like, I look at it like it's a positive thing, man, you know.

• 1:14:57Rich Roll?

  And you didn't have to do it.

• 1:14:58John Joseph?

  Instead of throwing water on the spark, why don't you fan the spark? Why don't you stop being an asshole vegan or whatever the hell you, you call yourself? And, and let these people do their thing and he's blogging about all these amazing restaurants he's going to.

• 1:15:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he went to Cafe Gratitude.

• 1:15:16John Joseph?

  Cafe Gratitude, Crossroads, you know, he's gonna probably come to Candle 79 when he comes back to, you know, and it's like, dude, like, that's why I just wanna like smack half of these people that just open their mouth, like everybody, you know, with this internet thing, it's like, I come from the school of like, you pop shit, you get smacked, you know, like, it, now it's this whole thing where anybody could say anything they want, cause they're sitting behind a keyboard and they come out of their face all wrong. And I'm like, it's, it's developed this whole kinda mentality where it's just a bunch of haters, man. And I'm like, to me, when I heard the whole, cause I'm doing a show for Converse and everyone, so these vegans all write me,

• 1:16:01John Joseph?

  they sell animal products. And I'm like, dude, I play huge festivals where they sell hot dogs. It's what I do. But will I be wearing leather? No.

• 1:16:11Rich Roll?

  We have to live in the world, you know, it's like you cannot, I mean, the truth of the matter is if you wanna look at it, take a step back and really look at it. Uh, we all pay taxes and where does that tax money go? So we're all complicit in this system that is perpetrating, you know, policies, et cetera, that we may not agree with, but we have to live and breathe in our culture. So,

• 1:16:31John Joseph?

  Exactly.

• 1:16:32Rich Roll?

  we have to do the best that we can and we should be supporting anybody who. Decides they're gonna try something that uh might have a positive impact.

• 1:16:41John Joseph?

  Well, just like Nike, uh, a few years ago, they sponsored me doing this urban Cro-Mag Nike training. They let me use their space. They gave me, they said they wanted to pay me. I said, no, you know what you do? You give me that $400 twice a month and when I do my training program, I'm gonna buy all superfoods. I'm gonna bring all my stuff and we're gonna make people food. We're gonna, I'm, I'm gonna have all my expert trainers. Brendan came in, my friend who's special forces came in, uh, jujitsu guys came in, Ironman came in. All different kinds of people training people. It, there was no charge. It was free. Nike let us use their space.

• 1:17:23John Joseph?

  And then we fed people, uh, organic plant-based meals and I had guys like Dr. Bishi come in and educate people on nutrition. So it was a whole two-phase thing. First we trained, then we learned about proper nutrition. But I had all these detractors on the internet saying, how dare you do anything with Nike? And I'm like, dude, I took their money and I used it for good things. What's wrong with you? Like, whoa, like, you know, get the stick out of your ass.

• 1:17:52Rich Roll?

  Well, and, and most of those people are, they're not doing anything. They're sitting at home.

• 1:17:55John Joseph?

  And I volunteered my time. Yeah, you're sitting on your ass and these people out there doing things and you're gonna criticize them, you know? I mean, it's like, look at my friend Tal Ronan because he opened up a restaurant with the CEO of McDonald's, we love your food every day, Life Kitchen. And half of it is completely plant-based.

• 1:18:18Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:18:18John Joseph?

  And whatever the other half that that guy runs, it, they sell, they sell meat, whatever, they, what they consider, like, you know, green meat or whatever the fuck. But guess what? The dude's bugging out because Tal's menu is outselling his now. So, and, and what do the vegans call him? The Ronald McDonald of the, of the, of the vegan world. That's why Tal hates all these people. That's why these people are getting such bad. Names and reps and ruffle every, they ruffle everyone's feathers wrong and I just tell them to shut up.

• 1:18:52Rich Roll?

  And Tal, Tal is, for people who don't know, he's the head chef at a restaurant called Crossroads in Los Angeles. That is now like the hottest restaurant now, like not just vegan, not, forget vegan, non-veg, whatever, like that's the place.

• 1:19:05John Joseph?

  Leonardo DiCaprio was behind me, Barbra Streisand, like everybody's eating there. Yeah, Oprah was there. Well, he was Oprah's chef, Ellen DeGeneres. He wrote the book, a beautiful book called, uh, The Conscious Cook. And, um, Tal's just an amazing dude. He's been, he's from the hardcore punk rock scene too. People don't know that. Like he used to come see the Bad Brains and the Cro Mags in the early eighties and all that stuff. But yeah, so people, people want to criticize him. It's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's like all these crows, man. And, and crows assemble where the garbage is, you know, and that's what I call these people. They're just fucking crow mentality people.

• 1:19:45John Joseph?

  And I'm like, the same people criticized Rory Freeman, Skinny Bitch, my book, Meat is for Pussies or, or whatever. They just sit there and they just throw all this, you know, dirt out against people that are trying to do things to help people and help the environment and help the animals. And I just don't have nothing really to do with those people, man. I would rather chill with regular people and, and educate them. Just like last night, we was chilling with Mishka and he's like, man. You know, and then he wrote me today. I'm gonna write him back, but you know, I, I just think like, you know, it, it's up to all of us to be cool to, to everybody that's trying to make change in the world

• 1:20:26John Joseph?

  and, and, and fan the spark instead of throwing water on it, you know?

• 1:20:37Rich Roll?

  The solution lies in, in, uh, meeting people where they're at and respecting them. And, uh, understanding that while certain people are fighting over, you know, should you eat two nuts or four nuts? And what's too much that most people are really sick and eating at McDonald's and obese and diabetes. I mean, the statistics are unbelievable. One out of every two Americans is going to suffer from heart disease. By 2030, 50% of Americans are going to be diabetic or prediabetic. The obesity rates are through the roof and, and you've got to like step back and see the big picture and realize that if you want to change people, you've got to like be on their wavelength and create a welcome mat that is attractive for people to come, to

• 1:21:20Rich Roll?

  come over and explore something that's out of their comfort zone.

• 1:21:23John Joseph?

  I mean, that's what my beef is with this part in the pun with this dude Dorian Ryder. It's like all he ever does is criticize everybody. I'm like, yo, and you know, he criticized Fred Bishy, he criticizes everybody. Now here's somebody who's healed people for the last 60 years. He's been a raw foods doctor, PhD in nutritional science. This guy gets on there and starts slagging everybody. He just, I mean, I

• 1:21:48Rich Roll?

  He's certainly, yeah, he's a controversial figure and he has his, he has his detractors and, and he has his fans and he kind of fulfills his little corner of the whole thing, but there's always a lot of drama swirling around it.

• 1:22:01John Joseph?

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:22:02Rich Roll?

  And, and I think that

• 1:22:03John Joseph?

  That's a dude who needs to pick up like a yoga book or a Bhagavad Gita or something. It's like

• 1:22:09Rich Roll?

  Well, that leads me into the next kind of thing that I want to talk about, which is sort of taking, you know, launch, the launch pad out of food and into expanding consciousness and what that's all about. Cause I think for a lot of people, that's foreign. They want to lose weight. They can understand that, but the idea of whether it's spirituality or personal growth, these become like elusive subjects that, you know, are slippery and, and also kind of freak people out a little bit.

• 1:22:36John Joseph?

  Well, you know, talking with your friend Mishka last night and telling him, you know, about all the war stories about being on the streets of New York, it's like

• 1:22:52John Joseph?

  Uh, you know, everyone who knows my story is like, how the, how the hell is this dude still alive? I mean, I got to cover the Village Voice, but the dude first, that's when a million little pieces and these bogus memoirs came out that the guy made all this stuff up and all these bogus memoirs started coming out. And at that point, my book dropped in 2007. So the dude, you know, was like, there's no way you did all this stuff in this book and you're still alive.

• 1:23:20Rich Roll?

  Right. Cause the, the publishing industry was smarting because James Fry's book, A Million Little Pieces, which was a, a

• 1:23:25John Joseph?

  And Oprah pushed it.

• 1:23:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was an Oprah Book Club of the Month book and it was a huge book. And it was essentially an addiction and recovery story, but it turned out that he had

• 1:23:35John Joseph?

  Fraud.

• 1:23:35Rich Roll?

  fabricated or sort of exaggerated a lot of these episodes and, and, and then anybody who wanted to come out with kind of a tell-all memoir or somebody who had, you know, a colorful dicey past, couldn't get those books published because the publishing industry was too afraid of getting mud on its face after that.

• 1:23:54John Joseph?

  Right. So my book came out and then when the dude checked all the sources that I gave, I'm like, you know, everything in this book

• 1:24:02Rich Roll?

  He got a footnote.

• 1:24:03John Joseph?

  Yeah, yeah, man. He, he, uh,

• 1:24:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but your footnotes are like, talk to my homie so-and-so. He sits on the, on the stoop at the corner.

• 1:24:13John Joseph?

  Yeah, but no, it was like my mom's, you know, verifying that we grew up in these abusive foster homes and being on the streets and getting locked up and all the shit I was charged with and the craziness and being shot and, and stabbed in lockup and everything else. And it's like, you know, until I really started getting into the philosophy of life, it, the real change, just to become, I mean, I would have just been somebody that eats vegetables that still robs people. It, it had to be, you know, it had to be a whole change in, in consciousness. And it started with the Bad Brains, you know, because they were very mystical kind of,

• 1:24:56John Joseph?

  you know, they were like sadhus, man, especially the singer HR and

• 1:25:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Explain if somebody didn't listen to the other episode where we talked who the Bad Brains are and that influence on you.

• 1:25:05John Joseph?

  Yeah. I mean, I, I got out of lockup. I grew up in foster homes. I was on the streets, uh, selling, you know, this, this is what this TV show is. Basically hypothetically, had I became twenty-four and never changed my ways, where would I be? Right, the pilot that you're right, yeah. And so I I did time, I was in Spofford, I was upstate in Lincoln Dale, Lincoln Hall, which, you know, is no place a white boy wants to be. But I, you know, I struggled through everything, made it, got out, went into the Navy. Uh, and ended up meeting the Bad Brains in Norfolk, Virginia, who were this Rastafarian,

• 1:25:48John Joseph?

  just starting to become Rastafarian, uh, punks. And, um, just blew me away, man. And I'll, and then I had this whole philosophical talk with the singer. And, you know, my naval career, uh, I was selling drugs. I I was out of my fucking mind. I was taking, I mean, just doing crazy shit. I mean, they thought, they had, they wanted to put me on medication and had me seeing a sh- you know, trying to get me to see a shrink and all kinds of stuff. Um, because I never dealt with the issues and stuff that happened to me as a kid, so I, you know. And then meeting, and then, sorry, and then meeting HR, it was like, it just, the, like,

• 1:26:31John Joseph?

  first of all, he could have been telling me to worship the Pillsbury Doughboy and I would have done it because of the power of the band, that's the first thing. That's why I tell people, if you have some type of influence, you know, people look up to you, you need to kind of, you know, direct people in the right way because that's, he, basically, that it, they saved my life, uh, being around those, those people. And, you know, luckily, they weren't into drugs, they weren't into negative things, they were into positive things. So when I met him at the Taj Mahal in Norfolk in nineteen eighty, that, I, I mean, they just blew me away and I had to find out what's these guys into. Right.

• 1:27:13John Joseph?

  And then I just went back, you know, after the show and talked with him and, and it was this whole philosophical discussion.

• 1:27:21John Joseph?

  Uh, about spirituality and all this stuff and then I got to meet them later and then the sound man was into all these, you know, raw foods, but giving me all these philosophy books and I got a job at a health food store. So it was like, like a domino effect, man. And that's what happens when you meet people who are on the positive path. Like, I always tell people, I'm like, dude, take that first step. You're gonna see amazing things start coming your way. The car, you know, the universe, God, whatever, Krishna responds to you in a way when you take those steps and, and, and, you know, remove stumbling blocks and puts amazing people in your life that are gonna further your spiritual journey along.

• 1:28:02John Joseph?

  And I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about a spiritual search, which each one of us, you know, has to do. That's, that's what life's about, man. It's not about, you know, what is it, you know, birth, death, disease, old age, you know, you know, it's like, there's more to life than that. And so I went on my whole spiritual journey. I lived as a monk for a few years and, you know, but it was this whole education what really saved my life. And, uh, you know, my mother even tells people, if you would have known what this guy was like, you know, in 1978 and 79 and dealing with everything, like the person

• 1:28:43John Joseph?

  that he's become. And it's just because, you know, if you take an iron rod and you put it in the fire, it takes on all the qualities of the fire, heat, light, all of that. So I just put myself in that fire of other people who were in that whole spiritual place in their life and those qualities and reading Prabhupada's books and all that and, and not just reading it, but actually applying it to my life. Cause, you know, he always said, we don't want armchair philosophers. So if I, it's just like if I read something about Ironman or training or whatever, or my instructor gives me something and it's like, okay, here's what you have to do, trigger point therapy, do, and I don't do it. I just

• 1:29:27John Joseph?

  read it. What's the value of like, I, you know, what is that? I can just say, oh yeah, I know about it, but I don't do it. Like, that's the worst to know about and not act on it. So.

• 1:29:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. It's like, uh, self-knowledge will avail you nothing. Like you can get all the information in the world, but until you start applying that to your life, of what value is it?

• 1:29:46John Joseph?

  Right, and, and, and, and I just have to tell people, like, when they ask me, I'm like, look, I don't, I just only know my own experience, and if you get something out of it, I never preach to people. They, they always say to me, man, oh, you got any books on like philosophy or the meditation you do or whatever? And then it's like, you know, a person has to be willing uh to grow spiritually. It's, it's not something you wanna try to cram down someone's throat. That's the problem with religion, you know, with the Bible thumpers and it's like, you know, all these other-

• 1:30:21Rich Roll?

  Well, I think the thing is, is that, is, is that, you know, a lot of people say, well, I'm not, you know, I'm not into spirituality. I'm not a spiritual person and, and, and my response to that is like, I got news for you, man. You're, you're a spiritual cat. You are. Whether you like it or not, you're living a spiritual experience. It's just a question of whether you want to uh have a greater facility for understanding that or accessing that. And you had said a minute earlier, you know, when you sort of begin to explore this, doors open and people come into your life. And I've experienced that a million times over. It doesn't make any logical sense at all. But it's this idea of being uh, uh, you know, you, we were talking, I was talking about this with Mishka on the podcast yesterday.

• 1:31:06Rich Roll?

  You know, you are, you're like a radio antenna and you're putting out a frequency, you know, and, and, and that frequency will attract other like-minded frequencies, you know, water rises to its own level. And when you're on the street and you're, you know, dealing drugs and getting in fights, then you're gonna attract a certain crowd around you. And when you start reading these books and start behaving differently, then that's a different signal that you're putting out. And that will attract different people and lead you in a different direction that you can't predict.

• 1:31:38John Joseph?

  Right.

• 1:31:38Rich Roll?

  It's an untold story, but those breadcrumbs will take you on a path that, you know, will change your life.

• 1:31:45John Joseph?

  Well, that's why I wrote, I, I, I entitled the book, The Evolution of a Cro-Magnon, because it's like, you know, I-

• 1:31:53Rich Roll?

  Was an overnight thing.

• 1:31:55John Joseph?

  It was, it was an evolution that's actually still, still going on because-

• 1:32:00Rich Roll?

  Well, that journey's never over.

• 1:32:01John Joseph?

  Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I mean, whatever, you know, state of consciousness one remembers at the time of death to that state he'll attain even in his next life. So there's no loss of diminution on the path, you know, of consciousness. So that's why it's so important, you know, to, to, you know, grow spiritually. And even since the last time I talked to you, I'll just tell you one story about this guy, you know, that I was talking about last night, uh, my friend Kevin McQuade. And Kevin McQuade, um, he, about seven or eight years ago, he had stomach cancer, had no way to pay for it. So he robbed seven banks in New York City, passed a note, uh, saying, I don't want to hurt anybody.

• 1:32:45John Joseph?

  I need this for my surgery, but I have a gun and I don't want to hurt anybody, but just give me the money.

• 1:32:52Rich Roll?

  No ma- no mask either, right?

• 1:32:53John Joseph?

  No mask, no nothing. Dude, the guy was all over the news. This dude, he's got fucking balls to steal. His father's-

• 1:32:59Rich Roll?

  What year was this?

• 1:33:00John Joseph?

  This was about seven, eight years ago. His father was, you know, kind of disowned him. His father was an Irish mobster, Hell's Kitchen kind of guy. And Kevin was a steel, steel union guy. And this thing happened to him. He started drinking. He lost his job, lost his coverage and got sick. And that's the way he decided, I'm going to pay for my surgery. So guess what? St. Patty's Day, uh, he goes and robs a bank.

• 1:33:30John Joseph?

  And they put a dye pack in the money bag and it explodes on him and he's got all this red dye all over.

• 1:33:41Rich Roll?

  Had he already been robbing banks or was that the first?

• 1:33:43John Joseph?

  Yeah, he was already robbing banks and he was on the news and everything so.

• 1:33:46Rich Roll?

  Was he getting what like, these are like small scores or just over the counter cash?

• 1:33:50John Joseph?

  Yeah, like thousands, man, like, you know.

• 1:33:52Rich Roll?

  Right, he's not like going into the vault or anything.

• 1:33:54John Joseph?

  No, no, no, just like, you know.

• 1:33:56Rich Roll?

  Smash and grab like kind of?

• 1:33:57John Joseph?

  Like, yeah, pass the note to tell her, give me all the bills in your tray type thing. So they put a dye pack. So he's on the train and his every and he starts drinking and all his whole clothes and everything are fucking covered in dye. So the cops came over to give him a summons for drinking and they're like, what's that stuff all over you? And he's like, oh, yeah.

• 1:34:20John Joseph?

  So it turns out.

• 1:34:20Rich Roll?

  And he has stomach cancer and he's drinking.

• 1:34:23John Joseph?

  Stomach cancer drinking. So he ended up getting locked up and they gave him seven years. And they removed his, totally removed his stomach. They, I have, they have a way of creating another stomach out of something. I don't know what the hell they did, but anyway, cured his cancer. They took out his whole stomach and all this stuff. So he goes back onto the streets and he was.

• 1:34:47Rich Roll?

  But he was in jail for how long?

• 1:34:49John Joseph?

  Yeah, I think he did like five, six years out of that whole sentence and then mitigating circumstances, you know? He never had a record. He, he, he did it to pay for his cancer surgery, whatever. But he was a fan of Cro Mags, my band, and I've seen him over the years. He knew all, all the people on the scene. So then when he got out of jail, he just went on to the streets and, and just total alcoholic. I mean, pissing himself, laying in the street and, and I run the soup kitchen that does the plant-based meals for the homeless. So he was, I would, he wouldn't even come to the park. I would have to go to this park on Second Avenue and I would bring him hot food and like feed him and say, and talk to him and.

• 1:35:30John Joseph?

  And he kept having his ups and downs like, oh, I just got out of the program and then like this went on for like four or five years. But then last year, uh, he just hit rock bottom. And basically he even said, I, I blanked, I blacked out for seven months of my life. I can't remember anything. And, uh, you know, I kept telling him about, dude, man, you gotta give, read these books on philosophy. You gotta try to, you know, try to eat some good food, you know, you gotta, you gotta break out of this. Then the last time I seen him, I was like, you know, I, I couldn't even talk to him cause you know, he's a good guy, man. That's the whole thing and, and I just had to like not even say nothing to him. Cause he was, he was within weeks of dying. You could just see it.

• 1:36:16John Joseph?

  And, uh, he just disappeared and then I didn't see him for months and months and months. Well, right bef, right, uh, after Thanksgiving, um, last year, I'm, I walk into Angelica's Kitchen, which is this organic plant vegan restaurant and he's sitting at the table completely cleaned up. Like this big smile on his face and he's like, hey, man, I've been clean and sober and, um, and, and, and vegan for four months now, man. And it was like, like I just got choked up cause I was like, yo, if he's like, yo, everything you told me.

• 1:36:56John Joseph?

  And he's one of the people that we interviewed for this, you know, reality show that they're trying to pitch for me. But his story is so incredible. And, uh, you know, he was there and he cleaned up. He goes, I went to my father's house, which I don't even remember. And his father kind of disowned him, but his father took him in, cause his father's older now too. And you know, he was a gangster and, uh, you know, he guess wants to do something good before he leaves the world. So he took care of his son and he's, he, he just, after he woke up after like two weeks of sleeping every day, it was like, I don't wanna eat meat. I need to eat soups and salads and, and then, you know,

• 1:37:37John Joseph?

  he came down basically and found me at Angelica Kitchen and I walk in and he's sitting there.

• 1:37:43Rich Roll?

  It's it's back to the theme of today's podcast, which is the seed, you know, whether it's the seed of Monsanto, or the seed of the food that you're eating, or the seed of consciousness, and the seed that you planted in that guy without holding on to an expectation of whether he would grab on to that lifeline or not.

• 1:38:03John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:04Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? Like, you put the message out, and then you move on to the next guy, and then it comes full circle, and here he is.

• 1:38:10John Joseph?

  That's what, you know, we are like those farmers, like, you know, we're we're planting the seeds, even with the podcast or whatever, or just helping people out. That's the real compassion, because if we don't help our fellow man, you know, I always try to reach out and help people, because those people are touchstones towards other people. That guy Kevin is out there now, and people just can't even believe the change that's come over him. And I actually had him over. It was his one-year sobriety vegan whatever anniversary this Thanksgiving, and I had him come over to the house, and, you know, he hadn't, you know, nowhere to go, because his father went to some turkey dinner thing, and he didn't want to go there.

• 1:38:54John Joseph?

  So I invited him over. But like, when people see the change that that guy's made, they're like, what the hell did, what did you do? Like, how you know, what, and that's, that's really what it's all about.

• 1:39:06Rich Roll?

  You provided the information, and when the willingness finally kicked in, that's where the magic happens.

• 1:39:12John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:13Rich Roll?

  The part that I love best, though, that you didn't talk about was, because he doesn't have a stomach, he has to eat constantly, because he can only absorb like a small fraction of the food that that passes through his intestinal tract.

• 1:39:25John Joseph?

  I've never seen anybody eat. And he's always like, hey, Johnny, like, you know, he talks like this. I'll imitate him for a minute. I get a phone call. He's like, hey, it's Kevin McQuade here. I got, I got beans, and I got greens on top of that. Now, Dr. B C says that I'm supposed to sequence my food, right? So I should eat my greens first, because they'll go through my pseudo-stomach. I'll absorb that, then I put the beans on. So he's like becoming like this like.

• 1:39:52Rich Roll?

  He's all super into it.

• 1:39:53John Joseph?

  Yeah, but he'll sit there and eat for three hours. I had him over my house. I'm like, motherfucker. You're like, you're like, it's like a bartender, like, yo, you're cut off, dude. Like, I wanted some leftovers for people.

• 1:40:05Rich Roll?

  Sitting on the toilet like all day.

• 1:40:07John Joseph?

  Yeah, like I'll eat with him and he'll go to the bathroom like four times. I'm like, Jesus Christ, dude.

• 1:40:12Rich Roll?

  His grocery bill must be huge.

• 1:40:14John Joseph?

  Yeah, well.

• 1:40:15Rich Roll?

  So does he have a job now?

• 1:40:16John Joseph?

  Yeah, man. He got his union job back, steel worker. And, uh, yeah, he lives with his pops, is helping him out. And his pops wouldn't give him money in the beginning because he didn't want him to drink. But what he did was, he gave him his credit card for the supermarket and Kevin would go there and buy organic food and.

• 1:40:33Rich Roll?

  I want, I want to have that guy on the podcast.

• 1:40:36John Joseph?

  Yeah, he, uh, he called, I called him up because somebody called me from a weird number. I'm like, yeah, uh, somebody called me from this number. He's like, who's, who's this? He's like this, he's like, who's this? And I'm like, I don't know. You tell me. You call mine. He's like, I didn't call you. Uh, who is, is this John from downtown? And he's, he's old Irish, like, you can just tell, man. And I was like, yeah, uh, he's like, this is Kevin's father. I just want to take a minute to really thank you for what you did to my, for my son, you and all your friends. Cause we always buy, like, I, I bought that dude dinner, like, for two months straight. My friend Arthur, the drummer from the Misfits, Googie buys him.

• 1:41:17John Joseph?

  You know, the fact that this dude is still alive is confirmation that anybody, I always say if I could change, anybody can change. But Kevin is a prime example of, you know, you have to reach out and try to help people, man. Because like you said, everybody's spiritual. And that's, I told Kevin, I kept saying, man, you're an addict. So listen, he's like, yeah, the, the NA is not my thing, like, you know. So what is he into? He's into reading the Proud Pots books. He'll go chant with the devotees. He'll go sit in a yoga class and just meditate. So he's finding, you know, somebody who came from such a dark place like that.

• 1:41:57John Joseph?

  Was able to find his spiritual path because you know, people reached out to him and that's what the important, you don't know who these people are, you, you can't look into their souls and know what level of consciousness, consciousness they've attained, previous lives or whatever. And it's like, that's why you just have to always, you know, try to help people. That's been my thing, you know, to have, you know, I've met so many amazing people in the last, you know, thirty something years I've been doing this, you know?

• 1:42:33Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:42:33John Joseph?

  And that's what I say, it's not like I created the knowledge, I don't take credit for it. What I'm really am is the mailman, I'm just delivering the mail, but it's all about paying it forward. If you get gifts in life, it's, you have to pay that forward. You have a responsibility to turn around and if, if you're helped, you need to go help other people.

• 1:42:57Rich Roll?

  Right, and the big secret, or not so secret thing, is that it's truly the, the, the roadmap to happiness. If you want to be a happy, fulfilled human being, get out of yourself and your small life and your problems and just help up, help other people that are less fortunate that you, than you, you know, it doesn't take very much and

• 1:43:20John Joseph?

  And it feels good, man.

• 1:43:21Rich Roll?

  Nothing will shift your consciousness or how you feel about yourself when you get out of yourself and start helping other people.

• 1:43:28John Joseph?

  And I'm gonna tell you something else, man, everyone's so quick, "Oh yeah, everybody that's homeless is a fucking drug addict," and that's just so not true. I mean, there's dudes who went to Iraq and fought for this country that I feed on the homeless line. There's a guy who's

• 1:43:44Rich Roll?

  The veteran problem is out of control.

• 1:43:46John Joseph?

  Yeah, and don't even get me started with that. Big shout out to my man, uh, POW, MMA, Todd Vance in San Diego, California, who now got yoga certified and he's getting into all this metaphysical stuff and teaches them mixed martial arts to help the veterans with PTSD and he does it. He was San Diego's man of the year. Amazing. Guy Todd Vance. But, um, you know, I meet so many different kinds of people because I've been out feeding the homeless since eighty two in Tompkins Square Park. And everybody thinks, oh, they're all on drugs. It's just not the case, man. There's dudes running around nowadays that are veterans.

• 1:44:24John Joseph?

  They the PTSD. It happened to my nephew. He did four tours with the Marines and and was homeless and and nobody knows where he went. And, you know, thank God somebody reached out to him. But another person, you know, I met. He was living under the FDR. And his wife and kids died in a car crash and he was like a big time Wall Street guy. And he lost everything. So nothing mattered to him anymore. But just the fact that I would sit there and talk ten to fifteen minutes with him and and, you know, talk to him about life and spirituality. And, you know, for the soul is never birth nor death nor having once been, does it ever cease to exist?

• 1:45:05John Joseph?

  And that happened for a reason, you know, everything happens, you know, for a reason. We may not understand what it is. But, you know, you, you know, you have, this is gonna make you stronger or it's gonna break you completely. And then like over the years, I've so I saw the dude get his, get his trip back together. And that's what it's all about, man, because somebody reached out to me when I was in a dark place selling drugs. Like I sold the Bad Brains Manager acid and Quaaludes that night. That I met them and I was out of my mind, you know, and dude just reached out and was like, yo, check this out. This is a, we have to rewire our brains.

• 1:45:45John Joseph?

  Because we're, we're, we've been wired for materialism and selfishness and all these bad qualities that exist in the material world and society these days. And we have to rewire that, you know, to have compassion, to, you know, have attributes that, you know, are out there doing good towards other people instead of like I mean mine, that whole consciousness, the I Ching and all what it talks about, you know? And and I mean, you know, I mean, I, I, I made, I had a shitload of money saved.

• 1:46:21John Joseph?

  You know, back when I opened up the yoga center and, and, you know, I spent my life savings opening up this yoga center that educated people on Saint Marks and we fed people and, you know, and my mother, you know, she's older, so she was, she knows where I came from. I had nothing, you know, even in the foster homes, we had the steel to eat. They were feeding us Oreo spit sandwiches. So she knows where I came from. And she's like, you have to make sure, ma, you know, my mother was like, you have to make sure that you put away for yourself. And I can't, you know, you could own a house for what you spent building that place and maintaining it for 10 years. And I'm like, ma, the relationships and the friendships

• 1:47:05John Joseph?

  and the love and all the people I helped opening up that place, I would never trade that for anything. Because that is so rich and fulfilling, uh, to be able to help all those people. And I seen people come in there hooked on drugs and within, you know, a year, they're, they're meditating and they've gone plant-based. And it's like, all these amazing, uh, you know, that's what they said about the whole process, Prabhupada brought over was that he built the house for the whole world to live. And you would see people of all walks of life coming into that yoga center and like gelling and getting along and having

• 1:47:43John Joseph?

  a common goal, which was, you know, to awaken consciousness and, you know, and now that's what I'm trying to do with this next whole round of, of monetary gain that's coming. I want to open up, uh, another place, a bigger place and, and, and, uh, you know, facilitate more people, uh, becoming aware and, and getting healthy, both physically, mentally, spiritually, you know, there's nothing more important. That's how I get, uh, my satisfaction in life is, you know, trying to help other people. Yeah, that's what it's about, man.

• 1:48:23Rich Roll?

  I mean, I think that, you know, I'm 47 now, you're, you're 52, 51. So, um, you know, the older I get, the more- Are commonplace it it becomes to encounter people in our age bracket who are living lives of you know desperation really and and are searching for a solution to that but don't know how to access that they don't know because we've been living a life of being told that if you do this you'll get happy if you you know go lease the new car and we're inundated with all these messages and marketing messages buy this and you'll be happy and people are starting to understand and realize that that's not the solution and

• 1:49:02Rich Roll?

  really for me and I know for you it's a full time you've committed your life and then some to this idea of being service and and and you've become a fulfilled happy person in contrast at the same time people will say constantly you know well that's great but you know most people don't change or you know people don't really want to change and so what is you know disabuse me of that that notion and what is it that you've seen or experienced that people might not realize that is an effective catalyst for people changing their lives

• 1:49:38John Joseph?

  What I mean I I just have to relate to my own experience and where I came from you know like I said you would cross the street if you saw me in the early 80s and 70s and how did I change I associated with people who were spiritually minded who were grounded they rewired me they rewired my way of thinking and we've become so

• 1:50:06John Joseph?

  kind of living in these cocoon worlds now like you know like the communication aspect with this whole you just see people walking down the streets and it's like they're texting it's we're losing that communication aspect amongst that's why I never do that I walk down the street I look people right in the eye hey man what's up hey you know like today too same thing And I really say that, you know, if people get a chance to associate with people who are, you know, spirit spiritually minded or into all these esoteric things and philosophy and and

• 1:50:47John Joseph?

  good eating, it's like, you know, people used to think, you know, devotees that are out there chanting were brainwashed because they were happy. No, that's, we're supposed to be happy. We're not supposed to be miserable with 2.2 children and two cars, le- leading quiet lives of desperation, waiting for death to knock on the door in Long Island. That's not what human life is meant for self-realization. That's the first book that changed my life. I read Power Pod, Science of Self-Realization. And it was, I had to look not outside of myself and stop blaming, you know, doing the blame game. Every, everything that's happened to

• 1:51:30John Joseph?

  me is because of what other people did to me. That's what I did for a long time. And that's why I was violent. That's why I was using drugs. I had to turn it in and say, okay, what happened, happened. But was, am I gonna let that ruin the rest of my life? No, I wanna change. And the only way I was even inspired to do that, it's like those seeds of thought that were planted by Bad Brains, by J. W. Lee, by all these, you know, going to integral yoga in 1980, 81, and meeting Swami Satchinandha, and then, you know, the Hare Krishna devotees or whatever, just being around these people doing yoga. And, you know, it, it was just this whole community of like deeper thinkers. And it really is

• 1:52:13John Joseph?

  about rewiring the way that we've been wired by society. And that's why I don't care about, you know, all this reality TV stuff and all this other nonsense that's, and this person said that, and, you know, Kanye West, and it's like, it's like, dude, who cares? Why don't, you know, why is that news? Like?

• 1:52:38John Joseph?

  Why are you dumbing down the masses? Cause I think to a large degree when people are ignorant of truth, they can be manipulated. That's how, that's just how I feel and I've seen it happen. You know, nobody wants free thinkers. I, I, I, I, and I forget which dictator, but it was during the Roman times and he, his famous quote was when, uh, when they invaded somewhere, he's like, "Kill all the artists first because they're the free thinkers of society." You know, and it's like, now look at the artists that are out there that are in a, a place to say something. Even look at music in the, you know, the whole social message of like,

• 1:53:20John Joseph?

  "Look what they told Marvin Gaye when he wanted to put out What's Going On." If you ever read the liner notes, that was like, it's, first of all, it's Motown's greatest selling album of all time. And Barry Gordy told him, "This is gonna ruin your career because you're, you're getting involved in politics and social messages." But Marvin Gaye believed in his heart that this was the thing to do and he did it. And despite what everybody else said, look, look at the effect. You know, inner, inner city blues, all these songs that were on, uh, "What's Going On" and, and, uh, "Mercy Me" and all these tracks that were on that record. And it's like, you know, nowadays,

• 1:54:05John Joseph?

  you don't see the artists out there kinda, you know, putting that message out there. And I think now's the most, like what I tell people, now's the greatest time in the world to be a punk rocker. Like a real punk rocker, spreading a social message, like the Jell-O Biaffers, the HRs, you know.

• 1:54:24Rich Roll?

  Why is now the best time?

• 1:54:26John Joseph?

  Because of what's going on in the world, man. It's like now the real, you know, the deep thinkers really need to step up to the plate. Because, you know, I, I, I really feel like, and it's not, I'm not like biblical at all, but I really do see that this is the, the golden age, the age of Aquarius of enlightenment. But I see at the same time, there's a lot of dark shit going on too. There's a lot of manipulation, there's a lot of people putting that negative energy out there. So I always talk about what's going on and it seems so, you know, doom, whatever, but. You know, then the light comes on and, you know, you know, when there's light in the room,

• 1:55:07John Joseph?

  darkness can't exist. And that's what's the hope for humanity is that everybody that has a voice gets out there. And it is a grassroots movement, because you're not going to hear about this stuff in the mainstream media. But it's, you know, podcasts and websites and all this type of stuff where the knowledge is, is really getting out there. I mean, how do you think the non-GMO project and all this other stuff is getting so much?

• 1:55:32Rich Roll?

  Well, it's the first time in the history that, that the, the modes of distribution cannot be controlled, you know, and it's the best and first time when something could really go viral without checks and balances on it.

• 1:55:45John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:45Rich Roll?

  So that's, that's like the ultimate, you know, avenue for punk, you know, punk rock. So it begs the question of, you know, what do you, how would you define punk? Like, what is your definition of punk? And how has that changed from 1975 to what it is now?

• 1:56:01John Joseph?

  I mean, when I came on the punk rock scene, it was really about drugs and fucking, there wasn't much, you know, revolutionary type thought going on in that whole punk scene. It was really about, you know, anarchy and, you know, destroying things and, and whatever. But it wasn't until, uh, bands like The Bad Brains and stuff like that started injecting

• 1:56:28Rich Roll?

  Social consciousness.

• 1:56:30John Joseph?

  Conscious and aware message into the music, you know, and then like I got into, you know, even the police, what they were saying, you know, we are spirits in the material world. And, you know, all these types of bands, I would always look to like, what's the secret language of that song? Like George Harrison, "While My Guitar Slit," you know, uh, "Here Comes The Sun" and all, he wrote all these songs as metaphors for people's spiritual awakening and stuff. And he didn't, he wanted it to seem cool. So he wasn't on the nose with the message, but it was there. So to me, You know.

• 1:57:09Rich Roll?

  Except for Jaikarudin.

• 1:57:10John Joseph?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:11Rich Roll?

  That was a little on the nose.

• 1:57:12John Joseph?

  That was definitely on the nose, but I mean, you know, my sweet Lord was great. I mean, all that kind of stuff. And I mean, to me, you know, punk rock is anything that creates, you know, social change. It doesn't have to be for the better, uh, social change for the better. It doesn't have to be, you know, people covered in tattoos and doing what I do. I mean, I, I, I even say to people like, man, you're punk as, as a motherfucker. You know, more than any, any people that I'm meeting, that to me is like dudes that are out there and chicks out there on the front line, changing people's lives. That's, that's punk. That's what punk came out of a dissatisfaction with mainstream society and how we're supposed

• 1:57:55John Joseph?

  to do things. And this is the real revolution right here because to change a person's consciousness and let them do it themselves by, you know, planting seeds of knowledge, you know, here, yo, let's dig this, look at this way of doing it, you know, that's to me is that's the real punk rockers that's, you know, guy, Fred Bishy's a punk rocker to me. You're a punk rocker to me. People that, that's what it's really about is, you know, taking a stance against the, the status quo and what people are out there doing, man, you know, it's like, and they're miserable in their lives. We're, we're the most, uh, o- over medicated on prescription

• 1:58:37John Joseph?

  drugs for depression and everything else. So if materialism's the answer, why the hell we taking all these pills to be happy? Get through your depression. And if your depression doesn't work here, take this other pill that works in congestion with the first medication you're taking and.

• 1:58:50Rich Roll?

  And by the way, here are all the side effects, which include.

• 1:58:53John Joseph?

  You know, it's like hilarious. I, I snap all over that and, cause I, I got a chapter about Big Farmer in the new book too, and it's pretty, pretty hysterical, but, uh, look at this laser beam coming.

• 1:59:06Rich Roll?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:59:06John Joseph?

  See that?

• 1:59:07Rich Roll?

  So, uh, it's pretty cool. The city's, we're looking out the window here. It's snow, been snowing all day. The city's actually really beautiful right now.

• 1:59:14John Joseph?

  Yep.

• 1:59:15Rich Roll?

  Cool, man.

• 1:59:16John Joseph?

  But, uh, great, you know, coming and seeing you.

• 1:59:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man, thanks. Uh, let's wrap it up. Um, that was awesome, man. You're the best.

• 1:59:26John Joseph?

  Dude, man, I, you know, I just try to bring things from my experience in life and, you know, for whatever that's worth. And like I said, it's guys like Kevin McQuade, it's guys like me, it's guys that I see who, I mean, I read in this one, uh, vegan magazine, uh, that this guy, uh, went plant-based and got into Buddhism and he was a criminal doing like 25 years. He's like, if I got access to this knowledge, I wouldn't be in prison right now. But he went vegan in prison.

• 1:59:57Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 1:59:58John Joseph?

  Yeah, dude. It was in, I forget, it was this magazine called Satcha or something did an article, which means the mode of goodness in Sanskrit. And he got into Buddhism and meditation and yoga and vegetarianism inside prison. And it's completely changed his life. And this is what we need to do to rehabilitate these people who made mistakes. I mean, my nephew's facing six and a half to 15 years right now. He's locked up. And I'm like, if these people had access to this knowledge, they would really change their life. Those prisons are not rehabilitating people. They're warehousing people. And it's just disgusting because they deserve a chance to change. I changed, and that's why I'm writing the TV pilot hypothetically, if I didn't change,

• 2:00:40John Joseph?

  where would I be? Who would I be running with? You know?

• 2:00:44Rich Roll?

  I can't wait to see it all come out.

• 2:00:46John Joseph?

  Meat is for pussies in July, man.

• 2:00:48Rich Roll?

  I know. And let's, uh, let's leave everyone with a little bibliography of some of these books, like on the theme of, uh, planting the seed, some of the books and, and the documentaries, just so if somebody can break out their pen right now and jot it down, and I'll put them in the show notes. So, the documentaries that we talked about, what were they again?

• 2:01:05John Joseph?

  Um, The Future of Food, The World According to Monsanto, uh, Genetic Roulette by Jeffrey Smith, great books, uh, Confessions of an RX Drug Pusher. Oh, another documentary is The Idiot's Cycle.

• 2:01:21Rich Roll?

  Uh, are these all on Netflix?

• 2:01:22John Joseph?

  Yeah, those are Netflix or the internet. You can actually watch the whole documentary. And, uh, um, you know, books, Confessions of a RX Drug Pusher. Even Howard Lyman, uh, Mad Cowboy.

• 2:01:36Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:01:38John Joseph?

  So, uh, you know, and, and I love Todd Ronan's book, The Conscious Cook, man. If anyone's just now starting to get into plant-based eating. I mean, his book is amazing because it's gourmet and he just breaks it down so easy for you to.

• 2:01:53Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:01:54John Joseph?

  Cook really, uh, healthy food. You know, and your book, which was blew me the hell away, man. Finding Ultra, Brendan's book, Thrive.

• 2:02:03Rich Roll?

  Thrive, Brendan's got a new cookbook coming out.

• 2:02:06John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:06Rich Roll?

  Pretty soon, right?

• 2:02:07John Joseph?

  Yep.

• 2:02:08Rich Roll?

  So lots of good stuff out there. All right, man, and if people want to, uh, jump on your train, you're on, uh.

• 2:02:13John Joseph?

  Meat is for pussies, you can go on that page, you can follow.

• 2:02:17Rich Roll?

  Facebook or?

• 2:02:17John Joseph?

  Yeah, Facebook, you can follow me on Facebook too, John Joseph on Facebook, like, you, you know, like, I can't add anymore because I got like.

• 2:02:25Rich Roll?

  Dude, you need your own page so you can get more people.

• 2:02:28John Joseph?

  Eh, it just seems a little narcissistic.

• 2:02:30Rich Roll?

  I know, but they cap you, they cap you, they cap you at five, five thousand, right? So you're, you've got to be at your limit, right?

• 2:02:37John Joseph?

  Yeah, I'm definitely at that, but the Chromag page too on Facebook.

• 2:02:41Rich Roll?

  Somebody else to create the page for you, then it's not so narcissistic.

• 2:02:44John Joseph?

  Yeah. No, I will, but they'll be, you'll be hearing a lot about, uh, I signed with Red Brick, uh, Entertainment, which, uh, they're gonna get me out there speaking at all colleges and doing the whole speaking circuit. So.

• 2:02:58Rich Roll?

  Good.

• 2:02:58John Joseph?

  You know, cause, uh, you know, I'm, I wanna get out there and talk to people about it. I mean, even Dr. Campbell was like, when I meet those meatheads now, I wanna introduce them to you. I'm just gonna throw you at them next time I'm in here.

• 2:03:13Rich Roll?

  That's funny.

• 2:03:14John Joseph?

  Yeah, so.

• 2:03:14Rich Roll?

  Cool, and, uh, yeah, you're on Twitter, you don't tweet that much, though.

• 2:03:18John Joseph?

  Well, my pages are linked up to Twitter, so when I post something on my page from Facebook or whatever, it goes to Twitter.

• 2:03:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's JJ Chromag on Twitter.

• 2:03:27John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah, all right, man, that's about it, right? You got other websites and stuff?

• 2:03:31John Joseph?

  Nah.

• 2:03:32Rich Roll?

  Chromag's playing around?

• 2:03:34John Joseph?

  Yeah, yeah, we're, uh, doing the show for Converse, um.

• 2:03:40John Joseph?

  We fly out Tuesday, play Wednesday, play in New York, in Antwerp.

• 2:03:45Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:03:46John Joseph?

  Belgium, and then play New York on the 21st at Santos Party House, 21st of December. So, yeah, I'm keeping busy, man.

• 2:03:55Rich Roll?

  You coming out to LA anytime soon?

• 2:03:56John Joseph?

  Yeah, to train with you.

• 2:03:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's right, go to Crossroads, eat some of Tal's food. All right, man.

• 2:04:02John Joseph?

  Cool.

• 2:04:03Rich Roll?

  Cool, man, thanks a lot.

• 2:04:04John Joseph?

  Thank you, bro.

• 2:04:05Rich Roll?

  All right, buddy, peace. Plants.

• 2:04:15Rich Roll?

  All right, people, that's our show, hope you enjoyed it, hope you enjoyed John Joseph. Guy's amazing, right? I keep telling him he's got to get his own podcast, I think if he did, it would just explode. It would blow up the internet. But I loved having him on, and I hope you, you got some good stuff out of that. If you did, and you want to support the Rich Roll Podcast, go to Stitcher.com, vote for us for Best Health and Lifestyle Podcast of 2013. Go to iTunes and leave us a review. I'm not telling you what to write, just write something, show up for us there. You got some comments, some feedback you want to give us? Want to give us a shout out? Go to the blog at RichRoll.com and go to the page for this episode and leave a comment there.

• 2:05:01Rich Roll?

  We love getting the comments. If you have not yet subscribed to our newsletter, you can do that at RichRoll.com too. We've been sending out weekly newsletters, podcast updates, but also, we are starting to beef it up, and I'm going to be sending newsletters with helpful content that you can't get anywhere else, going to be exclusive to the list. So, go to RichRoll.com and sign up for that, only takes a second. Maybe after today's show, you're rethinking your diet a little bit, maybe I should go plant-based, or maybe I should at least try to get more plants into my diet, but I just don't know how to do it, where do I start? What am I supposed to do? Well, the good news is that Julie and I put together an online course, educational

• 2:05:42Rich Roll?

  program, it's called The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, and you can find that at MindBodyGreen.com. It's right there on their homepage. It is three and a half hours of streaming video content, broken up into 10 to five to 10 minute chunks, each very specific to a particular subject matter, whether it's, you know, how do I get my kids to eat better? And what am I supposed to get at the grocery store? And how do you do it with travel? And what do I eat before a workout? What do I eat after a workout? All that kind of stuff. Plus, tons of downloadable tools, the ultimate shopping list for the grocery store, the utensils you'll need, a free copy of our Ji-CD Cookbook, and an online community where I jump in, answer your questions.

• 2:06:26Rich Roll?

  Julie jumps in, answers questions as well. The community supports each other. It's really great, and I'm really proud of it. So you can check that out. We also have products for your plant-based lifestyle at ritual.com, athletic recovery supplement, meditation program, our Ji-CD Cookbook, all which make great gifts, as well as the Mind Body Green Course. That makes a great gift. Two clicks and you're done, right? Send it to somebody. It's awesome. We got the T-shirts coming soon, getting lots of messages about when the T-shirts are going to be up, hopefully in the next seven to 10 days. I wanted to get them up for Christmas time, but it just, it didn't happen. We're doing, making a lot of changes to the website. We want to make sure we get it right, but it's going to be very, very soon.

• 2:07:08Rich Roll?

  And we have lots of other products in development that we are going to be putting up really soon, too. We're just building it out right now, so it's pretty exciting. And that's it. Use the Amazon banner at ritual.com. You know how to do that. And if you want to donate a little extra, we have a donate function. You can throw us a couple bucks on a one-time, weekly or monthly basis, the amount, you choose the amount. And lots of people have been doing that. Thank you so much, you guys, for all the support. It has been an absolute joy and a privilege to do this show, bring this content to you on a weekly basis. I'm really excited about 2014, already lining up tons of amazing guests.

• 2:07:49Rich Roll?

  And this show is definitely a bright shining light in my life. It's brought so much amazing joy to me, and it warms my heart when I hear that you guys are getting a lot out of it, too. So, thank you. We're committed, and we appreciate you guys as our audience. So, that being said, happy holidays, everybody, and I will catch up with you next week. I'm out of here. All right, everybody, be well, be safe, be healthy. Peace. Plots.