Patrick Ta on Accountability, Identity and Building a Beauty Empire

Patrick Ta built one of the most successful beauty brands in the world after dropping out of high school, filing for bankruptcy at 21, and spending years building his career one client at a time. What started with a makeup kit and a dream eventually led to working with some of the biggest names in the world, launching Patrick Ta Beauty, and becoming one of the most influential makeup artists of his generation. But this conversation isn't just about success. In this episode, Patrick sits down with Emma for a candid conversation about the recent controversy surrounding his Transition Blush launch, the criticism that followed, and what accountability looks like when your name is on the brand. Together, they unpack creator credit, intention versus impact, reputation, and the challenges that come with building in public. Patrick shares: • How bankruptcy shaped his ambition and work ethic • Why makeup was the first thing that gave him confidence • The journey from celebrity makeup artist to beauty founder • What he's learned building Patrick Ta Beauty into a leading beauty brand • How he thinks about accountability, influence, and creator credit • The responsibility that comes with having your name on the product • What this experience taught him about leadership and integrity What's a belief about success you've been carrying that might be costing you more than it's giving you? Drop it in the comments. And subscribe to Aspire with Emma Grede so you don't miss what's next.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  Today, I'm having a conversation with Patrick Tarr, one of the most recognizable makeup artists in the world and the founder of one of the most successful beauty brands in Sephora. Patrick was booked before the launch of his new blushes sent the internet and makeup community into a spiral. But by the time he sat down with me, he knew our conversation had to be about more than just makeup. What I found interesting is that Patrick didn't come in just to tell his story. He came in open, emotional and willing to learn, not only from the conversation, but from my own mistakes as a founder and from the accountability that comes when the impact of a launch lands differently than you intended. So yes, we talk about the controversy, but we also talk about the full trajectory that brought him to this very moment.

• 0:54Emma Grede?

  Growing up feeling unseen, opening a nail salon at 18, going bankrupt at 21, building his career through social media when that was still frowned upon and turning artistry into a brand built for longevity. This is a conversation about reputation, recognition and what it means to take responsibility when your business becomes bigger than just you. Here's Patrick Tarr.

• 1:23Emma Grede?

  Patrick Tarr, welcome to Aspire.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

• 1:27Emma Grede?

  I am so happy to have you. It feels like it's a really long time coming.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Honestly, I am so inspired by you. So honestly, I feel like I hope to learn something from you today as well.

• 1:37Emma Grede?

  I'm really excited to have you because for me and you know, for so many of us, you are one of the most recognizable makeup artists in the whole world. I've read some incredible stats about the business that you have and that you've built at Sephora. But I think what's so interesting about you is that you're still a working makeup artist. And even with all of the accolades that you have, with the size of the brand and with everything that you're doing, you still choose to be there and working with your clients. And when I hear about your experience, I always think that you know, you were this kid who spent their childhood really feeling... Feeling like you didn't quite belong. And I wonder how your experience and essentially how that has shaped how you thought what was possible for you.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  I have always been a dreamer. I grew up, I'm first generation Vietnamese American. I did not excel in school. I'm a high school dropout. I was bullied. I have a stuttering speech impeachment. And I never really felt like I belonged. I was considered like the black sheep of my family. Coming from a Vietnamese family, like my sister, my cousins all really excelled in school and I just couldn't get good grades. So I dropped out of high school. And back then, like my mom had a bunch of nail salons while I was growing up. My dad did construction.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  And when I look back of how I was raised, like I used to be like so ashamed of where I came from. I was ashamed of what my parents did, growing up in like a predominantly like Caucasian neighborhood. All of my friends' parents had these like amazing jobs and my mom did nails. She, she, she probably did my friends' moms nails. And for some reason, like I was just, I was like, I was so ashamed. And it wasn't until I moved out of San Diego. I moved to Arizona, really like just wanting to reinvent my life. I came out of the closet and at the age of eighteen,

• 3:42Speaker 01

  I somehow convinced like my mom and my dad to open up a nail salon for me. This is something that I was so ashamed of, like, why am I choosing to do this? Because I had no other direction. I basically ran that business to the ground. So at the age of twenty one, I had to file bankruptcy. And at that point, like.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  I was the biggest disappointment to my parents.

• 4:06Emma Grede?

  As a first generation Vietnamese American, whose parents sacrificed an enormous amount for them, like, I wonder how much of how you operate is kind of informed by that upbringing that you had.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  I moved to Los Angeles and I set out this dream to start my career as a makeup artist. I made sure that I was going to succeed. This was 14 years ago. That was when it was the start of social media. I would reach out to clients. I remember I was charging $50 to do makeup. I was just so hungry to make a name for myself and to honestly to redeem myself from my parents, to make them proud. And that driving force of my bankruptcy has, I think, led me to where I am today.

• 4:53Emma Grede?

  No doubt. If you could pinpoint one moment from your childhood or your early career that's really shaped who you are and what you do now, do you think it would be that bankruptcy?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  I think it was a lot of things. I think growing up really overweight, growing up not having any friends, growing up never being told that I was good at anything until I started doing makeup. Makeup was the first time that someone gave me my first compliment. Makeup was the first thing that someone told me that I was finally good at something. And I held on to that for dear life. When I first started doing makeup, I was very quiet. I just came to work and I did my job and really just tried to make my clients feel the best version of themselves. And I realized that me building up the girl sitting in my chair,

• 5:48Speaker 01

  their confidence, it truly built mine. Makeup has given me my voice, it's given me my confidence, it's given me this entire career. So what I'm able to do for the girls, they do that for me.

• 6:00Emma Grede?

  I'm really interested to understand more about the early Patrick and where that resilience comes from. Because when you have a failure like that, you're essentially dropped out of high school, open the salon, you then, I think you're 18, you go back. bankrupt by the time you're twenty one. Most people would have just turned around, gone home, decided like, you know, this type of career is not for me. But you actually decided to like, you know, start something anew. I wonder like, if you, if you think about those three years, what were the big takeaways for you now that you look back on that time?

• 6:31Speaker 01

  I think for me, like, I never wanted to feel like that low again. I did everything in my power. I was working seven days a week, not going out. Honestly, like from my, my twenties to my thirties, no social life whatsoever. Really just like heads down, trying to make a name for myself.

• 6:49Emma Grede?

  I mean, it's amazing to even think about that there's like a decade of unbelievable like work there. Because, you know, it, it kind of, when you look at like your bio, one minute you're on a Mac counter and the next minute you are like literally working with some of the most impressive and unbelievable clients in the world. So actually what happens in that time, like from Mac counter to you picking up clients like Shay Mitchell and Rihanna and J Lo. Like, tell me, like, what was the actual turning point for you?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  I have always been obsessed with makeup. When I moved to Los Angeles, I was DMing people.

• 7:21Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  I would reach out to as many people as I could and just like wanting someone to say yes. Something that was, I think that was like frowned upon like back then, but I didn't know how else to reach these people. I didn't want to fail again. And at the very beginning of my career, like when, when it was so taboo to take photos of your clients, I did that. And I would take selfies like with my clients and post my work on social media. And there was this article, um, maybe twelve years ago from Vanity Fair. They wrote an article about me saying that I was selfie made. And even though

• 8:00Emma Grede?

  Great headline.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Even though, even though it was so like frowned upon, I did it anyways and it. Has given me the chance to be where I am today. Within two years, I was working with Gigi. Back then, she only had like 200,000 followers. She was so young, she was so new. And one thing just came after another. I feel like back then, if you got a follow from someone back then, it meant that I was probably going to work with them within the next month or so.

• 8:26Emma Grede?

  How much did you understand the power of social media then? Because it was very, very different. And like you say, almost kind of frowned upon in a way. So if you kind of think back to that time, were you aware that that was like a way that you were going to build your own business? Like, did it feel like it does today?

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Even though social media was so new to me, I really dove into it. And I could see that even though like I had like 6,000 followers, I was like booking clients. And it's like, oh, this is great. I was charging $50, like $75 here and there, making $500 a day. And I thought I was killing it. I was like crushing it. I was like, this is amazing. I could do this forever. Then, as my career progressed, just opportunity, like bigger opportunities came from social media. It came from people seeing my work online. My Instagram became my portfolio for people to see.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  I feel like the days of looking at the internet for client work changed.

• 9:29Emma Grede?

  There's been such a seismic shift. You know, I'm old enough to remember even pre-internet. You know, it's like somebody would send you a book. Like, it was so crazy. You would have like a physical book. And those, it changed like so quickly. And it's interesting because it feels like you were one of the first makeup artists to really understand that and to really take advantage of it. I'm interested to understand like when and how you transitioned from being this like celebrity makeup artist. I'm sure there was a time when you were getting lots of brand deals to then actually creation of your own brand.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  So I have always wanted to have my own brand. I've always wanted to be successful. So seven years ago, we launched Project Our Beauty. And I started working on this like eight years ago. But this was the time where I was probably one of the biggest makeup artists at that time. I was working with Rihanna, J Lo, Ariana Grande. And that time Kylie had just, I think, sold her beauty brand for a billion dollars. And every single person was like, I want a beauty brand. People were flocking to me to invest in me. And I had probably five or six people or firms like reach out to me to start a brand with me. And me not knowing anything about business, I've never had a corporate job. I was honestly like a little freaked out.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  And I realized that even though I didn't know how to get to this point, I wanted to be with someone that made me feel safe.

• 10:57Emma Grede?

  But you understood that your name had value beyond your straight services? Like you were aware that you were becoming like a brand name in of yourself? Or was it like, oh, this is a surprise that people are asking me to do this?

• 11:09Speaker 01

  I think I've always had like imposter syndrome. I think like for me, like growing up, I've always been like very, very, very shy. I still am. I think some people can can take that as me being standoffish or coming off the wrong way. But I'm a very shy person and I'm like shocked sometimes that like people even like know who I am. But I do, I am proud of like my career. I can say that I worked tremendously hard. And at that time, I did have a little bit of cockiness because I was working with Rihanna. Like she was like the baddest girl in the industry and.

• 11:46Emma Grede?

  Talk to me about the cockiness. I love that because I think it's actually quite like it's kind of self depreciating that you even recognize that in yourself. Like, what do you mean?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  I knew that I had every single major pop star in the world and that meant something to me. I kind of like grew into my confidence like, oh, like maybe I'm actually like good at something. It gave me, I guess, like leverage to these people like reaching out to me to create a brand and to, I guess, make money off me. Even though like I didn't think about it that way back then, I knew that I wanted to create a brand. But I didn't know how I was going to get there. I didn't have. My own capital, nor did I fully want to throw everything that I've made because I've experienced that bankruptcy.

• 12:37Emma Grede?

  It's in the back of your head.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  I was a little afraid, but I'm still like, I'm a risk taker now and I like, I dove in.

• 12:45Emma Grede?

  All right. So let's talk about that moment because you launched your brand in two thousand and nineteen and which is just before the pandemic. I mean, absolute timing, but I'm so interested to how it actually came about. So at this point, it's like you've got every dream client in the world that you could have. You have a bunch of brands and the big kind of conglomerates, I imagine, kind of coming to you saying, hey, we love what you're doing and we'd love to use your name and create a brand. So how does Patrick Tarr, the brand, actually get born?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  So one of my first clients, her name is Rema, her and her husband, they had talked to me about building a brand before, but like they had no experience. I have no experience.

• 13:25Emma Grede?

  What did they have, like money?

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. So Rema was one of my first clients to ever book me and her husband had just sold his like pharmaceutical company.

• 13:35Emma Grede?

  So he's a businessman, but not necessarily in the cosmetic space.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I reached out to her to see if like this is something that she would be interested in because she's brought it up like many times during our glam sessions. And at first they were like, no, we're like, we don't want to do this. It was like a year later.

• 13:52Emma Grede?

  Did you pursue other opportunities in that year? Like, did you go down the road with potential suitors?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  So I had like a bunch of options. I had a few incubator companies. I had like a few other clients as well, but I was really impressed by how Alvo was able to exit his company within like three years. And I was like, let's try this. And one like, I just like, I really just connected with Rema, my co-founder.

• 14:21Emma Grede?

  There's also just so much to be said of an existing relationship, like, right? What you know, what you've seen. Certainly for you, you're coming from a place of like not necessarily being able to trust all the advances that are around you. And so you went for what was comfortable and what you thought you knew.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  What was comfortable and we did it that way. I see all these brands now launching so big and all these categories and like in such a big way. Like I launched with like three products. This brand was always meant to be launched just like D to C. I launched with a body oil, a lip shine, a highlighting mist, and then like a fan.

• 14:56Emma Grede?

  Kind of amazing and random set of products.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  I know.

• 15:00Emma Grede?

  I'm like, wait a minute, I was expecting you to go like a mascara, a lipstick and a blush. And I'm like, okay, okay, okay. But maybe that was it like, did that, I mean, I'm assuming that that product mix really set you apart.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  It did. I during that time, like during the development process, like Rem and I had no idea what we were doing. We were like six months in and we weren't really moving anywhere. We like looked online where to make product and like this is like, I feel like what so many people go through when they're trying to start their own brand. Like, where do you even start? We ended up outsourcing a external like agency to to to help us. And a friend of a friend that worked at Sephora caught wind that I was like starting a brand. They asked us to fly to San Francisco and I was like, oh my God, like this is such a a big moment for me because like Sephora is a brick and mortar that I have always admired. It's a store that I've that I shopped at.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  I flew to San Francisco with our three products to present. I was so nervous. I came into this like boardroom, there was like 20 people in there. And I presented everything that I had. I told them my story. I told them like my hopes and dreams and I left that meeting with like tears like running down my face because like I was so happy.

• 16:14Emma Grede?

  Were you like, I killed this and Sephora are gonna take my brand?

• 16:17Speaker 01

  I knew I was a amazing makeup artist. I knew I had the best clients. So like, of course you want me. I left crying because I was just like so happy with with how it all like came to place. And Sephora is such a inviting company. We ended up launching exclusively at Sephora a year and a half later.

• 16:36Emma Grede?

  So it's pretty quick between you starting with your friend and business partner to actually launching product on your own to then a year and a half later getting in Sephora. That's a pretty quick trajectory. And this is all happening around COVID as well.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  This is like right before COVID. And like not knowing anything about the industry then, like we launched, they gave us a end cap in 200 doors. And I was like, why aren't they going to give me more like more doors? I don't, I don't understand. We only had three products on four shelves. We used like all the other shelves for like photos.

• 17:10Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  What I didn't realize back then is that like every single square foot of Sephora needs to generate dollars. And the fact that they were able to take a leap on to us really like said something. I'm now in over a thousand doors and I'm a top 10 brand at Sephora. It's crazy to like even say that.

• 17:35Speaker 02

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• 18:17Speaker 02

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• 18:32Speaker 03

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• 18:35Speaker 04

  I have $729.71 in my bank account.

• 18:39Speaker 05

  We bought, you know, a $1.3 million house on a $350,000 income.

• 18:43Speaker 03

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• 18:50Speaker 06

  I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.

• 18:55Speaker 03

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• 19:02Emma Grede?

  I want to go back quickly before I go forward because I think it's an important thing not to skip over. When you did your deal with your current business partners and your first investors, how did you know what to ask for? How did you think about structure and how did you equate your value, given that they had all the money, you had all the expertise, seemingly neither of you had the experience to actually launch a brand in that space? So what did that conversation look like and what did that deal look like?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  I wanted to make sure that I was getting like a fair deal. I had like five or six other deals on the table. None of them came to like fruition, but I had some sort of like idea of what other people were offering me. And I wanted to make sure that it was fair. I got a really good lawyer. I had to ask like all my clients, my like their agents, like, does this seem fair? Is this okay? What's normal? Because I honestly, like, I didn't know. People say that I got like a really good deal. Some people say that I got like a really bad deal. I think it depends on what you are comfortable with. And at the end of the day, like, I am so grateful that someone even was able to take a chance on me.

• 20:14Emma Grede?

  I love to hear that one of the things that you did was pursuing the other deals because I think what people often do when they have an opportunity, they put all their eggs in one basket and it's like, this is the thing that I want to do. And actually, going around dating a little bit, understanding who's got what offer, speaking to people, like, that is how you get to the deal that you're supposed to do. Now, whether you did a good deal or a bad deal, I mean, you, I guess you'll never know, right? Because you did the deal you did. I'm sure you did, and I'm sure it's working out. But I think it's really interesting that when you don't know, all you can do is ask a lot of questions. All you can do is take a lot of meetings. And I think the one thing that I always try to encourage people to do is whether or not you're super interested in the end opportunity.

• 20:58Emma Grede?

  It's like, take a call, take a meeting, sit down with people, because you will learn something in the discovery. And even if you take that conversation into the next thing, it can like just be super helpful. When I think about your brand now, you said you're in a thousand Thousand doors of Sephora. I think you sell three blushes every minute, which is kind of crazy. And you're at the, what's your like, you're like number one blush in Sephora?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  We like teeter totter between number one and number two.

• 21:22Emma Grede?

  What does it actually take to hold on to that position? And how have you thought about growing the brand, growing your categories? And, and what you can do in your space?

• 21:32Speaker 01

  So like three years ago, when we became that number one position, best believe every single other brand out there is probably buying that blush, bringing it into their product development team and making, and like dissecting it. And like, why is this number one? I think it is really important as a brand, compete with yourself and never stay stagnant. Like just because I have like the, the number one blush right now, it doesn't mean it's, it's always going to stay like that. When I launch a product now, these products I stand behind. And that is so important for me. Like when I first launched the brand, I was creating products that I really felt were missing from my own makeup kit.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  But how I create products now is that I need to know that I still want to talk about this five years from now. You need to be able to love your product and make sure that the formula is there. So once you like, even like stop talking about it, the formula speaks for itself. And I made sure that the products that I launched, I love them, I stand behind them. And that I, I always like ask myself, will I love this like 10 years from now? And that's a really hard question because like you don't know.

• 22:46Emma Grede?

  It's a hard question. And I think it's a hard lesson to learn. And I felt the same thing, you know, I used to get fatigue. I was like, are we really going to do like another blue jean campaign? And it's like, yes. And if we're lucky in 30 years, we'll just be doing blue jean campaigns and still talking about the same thing. Because when you do something with excellence and you're really amazing at it, it's the best thing in the world is to be able to double down and have that product and speak about that product over and over and over again. But I think that you're right. You're like, you can't get lazy. You have to innovate. You have to iterate and you always have to be thinking. About the next thing.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  You have to also like know when it's like the right time to um evolve from that product too. You can't do it too quick and you can't do it too late. Even though I might understand this like this technique of cream over powder. I think it's so old. It's been like three years. There are so many people out there that have no idea what it is. I launched that blush duo five years ago. It was like sitting stagnant on the shelves for at least like a year and a half. It wasn't until like I started educating, I started really like showing people how to use or different ways of using it. That like this blush like took off like like like wildfire.

• 24:02Emma Grede?

  I've seen that in my own businesses. Not everything is a hit out of the gate. But if you really believe in something like you have to kind of really double down and say, this is what it is. This is what I stand for. I have a lot of belief and conviction in this product and I'm just gonna keep going. Because eventually things take flight. And I think the same thing's happened in my own companies. Like you launch something and two years later it takes off and you might just be a little bit ahead of the curve. How do you like spot new trends, see what's happening in your business and decide? Actually, this is a product that I need to create. This is a category that I need to be in.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  So because like I'm a working makeup artist and I don't think that I'm gonna give it up anytime soon. Um, when I do makeup, I don't really like look for trends. It's really important for me because I work on some of like the biggest names in Hollywood. I just want them to feel the best version of themselves. I want them to feel confident and I want them to book me again.

• 24:56Emma Grede?

  Yeah, in fact.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  And how you get that to happen is that they feel like the best versions of themselves. I'm not focused on trends. I'm I'm focused on making my clients just like love how they look and they feel confident. Sometimes those looks become trends. I bring that then into my development process.

• 25:17Emma Grede?

  I want to talk to you a little bit about the business and because I look at it, I'm like, my goodness, you started with like such a tiny team. Now you've got a team of over sixty people. What has been, I guess, like the hardest leadership lesson that you've learned as the company? Companies grown and scaled.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  It's so crazy that I can even say that I have over sixty people for the first four years. Like, we were a team of four. It was me, my business partners, and like, we had a social media girl. The fact that we were able to do like what we did back then is, I feel like those days were like a blur. But we took private equity four years ago. It wasn't just about like raising money. It was really about finding like the right strategic partner. I feel like we've like fully exhausted our own knowledge, like what knowledge we had. We needed a partner that could really like take us to the next stage. We really wanted someone with the knowledge, the experience, the relationships.

• 26:07Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  To really um take us to that next level.

• 26:11Emma Grede?

  Which, by the way, is the the best version of having a partner and raising money. Because I think when you have a partner that comes with just the money, like you tire of that partner at the same rate that the money dwindles down. But when you have a partner that brings something to the business, like strategic relationships, they've been in that category before, they understand the business, they can open up doors for you. It actually is a game changer. Is that what you've experienced with your partner?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Even though they have come in, they have brought in so much experience, like there's still so many times that I feel like in like these like board meetings or like I always like speak my truth. I always say how I feel because I'm so passionate about what I do. I don't want to lose who I am within the brand because like when when private equity comes into play, it's all about numbers and and scaling the brand. But for me, it's always been about the product. It's it's been it's been about like building this like this like legacy. This brand is all I have. I've been working the last like fifteen years of my life. Like, it's it's led up to this point and it's all I have.

• 27:17Emma Grede?

  How are you able to toe the line between the needs and what they want? And actually, what it is that you want to do and how you want the brand to remain?

• 27:25Speaker 01

  I still like juggle that still to this day. We partnered with a private equity firm that

• 27:33Speaker 01

  One believes in the product, they believe in me. And it's truly been like the most amazing relationship. Like, we've grown so much from their experience, their knowledge. And I honestly, like, they haven't really tried to like change me. There are certain things where, when it comes to operations, or it comes to production schedule, like, I am not going to let a product go onto the shelves if it is not great. These are things that I didn't learn until maybe like two, three years in. Like, there's so much that goes into the development process that I never in a million years thought that like was even needed.

• 28:16Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  I, I thought that you would go in, you would create a formula, you would create a color, and it, it would be done. But that's not the case. When you like do like replenishments, like, all of these are like raw ingredients. Things change all the time. And like, the color doesn't always stay the same. Like, the one thing that I'm like such a huge stickler about is that I want consistency. I want the, the consistency in the formula, in the color. Because like, sometimes if you go into a store now, you see a brand that you have like your favorite blush, and you go in, three years later, you buy the same color, they're not the same color. But that's something that I am like such a stickler about. I didn't even know to ask that question until, until I learned about it.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  I remember like sitting in my, my first like board meeting, there are all these like numbers like on the screen, like, what the hell do these say? There's all these like abbreviations, like, I knew nothing, but this brand has my name on it. Like, I'm not afraid to sound dumb, I'm not afraid to ask questions. I ask dumb questions all the time because like, I just wanna know.

• 29:17Emma Grede?

  Do you feel like it's your responsibility to understand? Are you the type of founder that's like, decided, I need to understand the numbers, I need to understand the abbreviations? Or do you feel like you stay more in your creative lane?

• 29:27Speaker 01

  I stay more in my creative lane, but it is important for me to understand them. I will ask the question, and every single year has been like a different year. I tackle, I tackle something every single year or every single month, honestly. Like, the more I learn about it, the more I get interested in it. But we are at the point in our brand life now that

• 29:48Speaker 01

  It's like getting bigger. I can't be in in every department, even though I want to be. The first like year when we started bringing on talent and like building our our executive suite. It was really hard for me to let go and to to trust.

• 30:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah, especially because if for the first three years when you were absolutely killing it, there were only four of you. Because I know you eventually brought on a CEO, right? And I wonder what was actually happening in the business that forced you to realize I can't do this all myself. And actually, I need this position in the company.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  I was never the CEO of my company. My business partner, although he was running the company. And we got to a stage where the business was growing at like such like a fast pace. We needed someone with experience within the industry.

• 30:36Emma Grede?

  You needed a professional beauty CEO.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, beauty CEO that like understood the relationship with Sephora like that. Like we are exclusive with Sephora.

• 30:45Emma Grede?

  You're still exclusive to Sephora?

• 30:47Speaker 01

  I am still exclusive with Sephora.

• 30:48Emma Grede?

  Wowzers, you are.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  And I'm proud to say that they have been nothing but amazing to us. They have really helped us grow and they have been like the best partners. And there will be a time where we will spread our wings. But right now, like, I'm so happy.

• 31:04Emma Grede?

  I mean, no doubt you've built an amazing business, but I have to challenge you on that. Because where I come from, the idea of like literally having all my eggs in one basket, meaning that everything is with one partner. They control whether the lights are on or the lights are off. As somebody who's like, you know, you're controlling, you're the person that like, you know, you have an idea of what this brand is. How do you leave it up to Sephora to decide like the success and the speed that your brand is growing?

• 31:32Speaker 01

  I think there are so many beauty brands that are launching right now. And everyone is like following this like same path. I'm building something slow, but I'm also building something for like longevity. There's still like so much time and. For me, I want to be able to make sure every single market that I am in now that we show up with excellence and I'm able to cater to that before I expand. Cause like going into like these different markets, you need people on the ground. You need to understand like the region and I used to think like, why aren't I in all these regions? Like, why aren't I world? Like, why didn't we launch worldwide?

• 32:11Speaker 01

  We launched only in the US. We just launched in the Middle East. We just launched in Mexico and Southeast Asia. And we're doing it slowly because I want to make sure the experience for the Patrick Ta girl is like the best experience possible. I, I, I don't want to jump ship and launch somewhere where people don't know me. Our, our product just sits on, on the shelf. Cause that, that is like the worst thing ever.

• 32:40Emma Grede?

  I love that answer, actually, that, that you still have time because I feel like everyone's always in such a rush to have everything and to do everything that it can be possible for the brand. And in a way, Sephora is like a safeguard, right? You get to go into a market, you get to have, you know, best in class representation. You get to go in, in a way that you understand and work with a partner that understands you.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  So because we are exclusive with Sephora too, like I hold that against them. Like, you better give me, you, you better treat me like I am your only child.

• 33:12Emma Grede?

  Damn right.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Because, because like they have to understand, like, we are giving up a lot to

• 33:18Emma Grede?

  Hell yeah.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  To, to be here. So I always challenge them for support.

• 33:31Speaker 07

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• 34:02Emma Grede?

  I've had so many incredible beauty founders sit in the chair that you're in right now. And everybody talks about Sephora as this golden ticket, this incredible moment, this turning point for their brand. What did you learn from Sephora that you think maybe you didn't know, or something that they really have kind of taught you and educated you and your business?

• 34:23Speaker 01

  I have a really good story for that. So Sephora is going to buy into you. They're gonna like pump you up. They're gonna be like your best friend. Like we're gonna kill it. We're gonna launch this. And one of our holiday collections, like four or five years ago, they like, they ordered so much. And I was like, oh my God, we're gonna, we're gonna like crush this holiday.

• 34:42Emma Grede?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  And as much information and advice that they try to give you or lead you in a certain way, they are a business themselves. They have 500 other brands that they're looking at and trying to grow and scale. They have their own numbers that they need to make.

• 34:59Emma Grede?

  You're not the only child.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  I am not the only child. So you need to make sure when you launch a product, you do it how you want to do it. And you show up how you want to show up, not how they want you to show up. You launch what you feel comfortable with.

• 35:13Emma Grede?

  Damn right. And I think any external partner is looking out for themselves. You might be in cahoots and partnership and there's certain things that you can do together, but it's on you, right? It's like, it really is. And I feel like I've also learned that the hard way, getting giant orders from specific retailers and then sitting on a bunch of stuff and them saying, I want to RTV that. I want to return it. And I'm like, oh shit, you do? Thought we were in this together. It's like the partnership's gone all of a sudden. But it actually, at the end of the day, it's always your problem, right? It's like, at the end of the day, your brand, your problem.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:43Emma Grede?

  It's really true. Now, listen, we have to talk about the recent controversy because there has been a lot of chatter online about you and your latest product, the transition blush duo. For anybody that doesn't know, or for anyone that's been living under a rock, this kind of transpired around another incredible and very respected and well-known makeup artist, Painted by Esther. And I wonder what your perspective has been on this backlash?

• 36:11Speaker 01

  So I recently launched Transition Blush. It is a three-step program and this is for like the blush lover.

• 36:20Emma Grede?

  A blush lover.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  A blush lover. You need to have your regular blush to our transition blush and really something to really like marry your concealer to your blush.

• 36:29Emma Grede?

  You weren't content selling, you know, three blushes every minute. You were like, we need to sell more blush.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  But this is like the part of like the world building of blush. Like this is something that I was obsessed with.

• 36:39Emma Grede?

  You're the blush guy.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. What started off as a conversation about the product, if this was a need or not. It grew to a much like larger conversation about recognition and creator influence. Especially like within the black community and not being recognized for their contributions on culture. At first, like, to be honest, like, I did not understand it. The intent of this launch was never to take ownership over this technique. It was to really like create a product to simplify this like artist technique that people have been doing.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  And simplifying it for the consumer. This has become like such a larger conversation and I've had to take a step back and to really like listen to what everyone has been saying. And I've realized that even though it wasn't my intention, the impact matters. Esther is an amazing makeup artist. She really popularized this like high contrast of blush on dark skin. When we were creating the launch strategy for this collection. I wanted to invite artists and creatives and creators that shared the same love for blush.

• 38:02Emma Grede?

  Did a collaboration with Esther ever come up internally?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  So I personally reached out to Esther, my team reached out to Esther and unfortunately she declined the the opportunity because she wasn't taking paid collaborations at the moment.

• 38:17Emma Grede?

  And this was prior to the launch?

• 38:19Speaker 01

  This was this was prior to the launch.

• 38:20Emma Grede?

  Okay, so you actually went out to her to be a part of your launch of this particular product?

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, this launch has been a very hard launch for me like. I created this like with like with like such heart and.

• 38:32Emma Grede?

  It feels to me, Patrick, like you kind of understand that launching this particular product without a mention of her influence of the technique kind of felt like an erasure of her influence. And again, I think she's been very vocal. She didn't create the technique. She's somebody that's more recently popularized the technique. But the fact that you guys went out with it in the way that you did feels like she should have somehow come up and been credited and she wasn't. And because it so frequently happens, specifically with black female creators and artists, it has it's escalated into something that is disproportionate to what you would have

• 39:14Emma Grede?

  perhaps hoped for, considering that you went out to her. But it feels to me like there's some sense of remorse or some sense of understanding, or I'm a misunderstanding.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm really sorry for like, I am genuinely sorry for like the hurt and the frustration that I have caused and that for anyone who has ever felt like overlooked or not recognized on like their contributions, like that was never my intent. My intent was only to create a product to allow people to make this technique like more more accessible at home. And when we talk about like the trademark issue.

• 39:48Emma Grede?

  Because that's what people have got their knickers in a twist about, right? Like, people feel like the fact that you trademarked it is the the overstep. Like, that's the thing that's got people like super riled up, apart from the fact that she's not involved and her name isn't mentioned. It's like you've gone out and taken this technique and put a trademark around it.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  So what people don't understand, like I did not trademark the technique. You cannot trademark a technique.

• 40:13Emma Grede?

  You trademark the name.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  I trademark the name and I trademark every single product name.

• 40:18Emma Grede?

  Well, and I and I just want to, and I don't want to cut you off, but I do want to just say, so do I. Every single fucking thing I do in every single brand, if a trademark is available, we will trademark it. Because the the intention and the investment and, you know, we're not making products that last a week. We're trying to make products that last five, 10, 15 years. A matter of usual business practice is to try to trademark what it is that you're putting into the market. There's nothing weird and unusual about that, even if it isn't fully understood. But of course, there has been uproar around the fact that you did that. But I think it's important clarification that you're not trademarking a technique because you can't, you're trademarking.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  The product name.

• 40:56Emma Grede?

  The product name.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  I think this conversation became bigger because several years back, I had an incident with this creator. Her name is Ivana Sunshine, who is a creator that I I met through Sephora Squad. And I loved her energy. I like saw her content. It was like so authentically her. I reached out to my team to work with her on like a brand level. And there was a delayed payment on an invoice, which was fixed. But not knowing like back then, like how this happened, like I hated that that happened. And it was really important for me to like take like take a step back and like pause for a second and really like understand like what happened.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  I really realizing that like this was a administrative issue. We did a complete like overhaul on our accounting process to make sure that like this like never happens again. But I also understand that like when you are building a brand, mistakes happen. Like people are not perfect and I am not perfect. But what I can say is that I worked really hard to learn and to always try to be better and do better.

• 42:12Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and I mean, it feels like you've built this career of yours on sort of fighting to be seen. And so there's a responsibility, I guess, that you must feel somewhat that you have around allowing others to be seen. And I think that's the thing that people have missed, right? This becomes an issue of reputation. One thing happens, something else, people draw a line between the two. And your reputation is what you're essentially trying to defend. And I think that's where if you're an outsider, it looks a bit murky. Because when you look at what the internet says, there's an allegation around your business partner booking an appointment. And perhaps that appointment not being what it was originally intended to be, which is this do and go. And so Esther gets left in this position where she's like, wait a minute, they want to film my technique.

• 42:57Emma Grede?

  This is a partner of Patrick's and this isn't something I'm, you know, comfortable with. And then there's a separate thing of you filming some content and verbatim. Using some of painted by Esther's language. And I think that there's no smoke without fire. It's like the one thing happens, the second thing happens, the third thing happens. And all of a sudden, you find yourself in the eye of the storm. Now, I'm not sitting here saying whether you're wrong or right. I'm asking really the question to you is having had the benefit of hindsight and been able to look at what's happened. Would you have done anything differently?

• 43:30Speaker 01

  I want to touch on my business partner reaching out to Esther to do her makeup. This was not a brand related thing. So Rima, my business partner, reached out to Esther on a personal level to get her makeup done for Easter brunch. And content was always like within the asked.

• 43:48Emma Grede?

  Oh, so it wasn't a do and go.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  It was, it wasn't a do and go. It was always in the ass with to her team. They sent over a rate and then changed the rate a few days later. And Rima declined, so the job never happened.

• 44:06Emma Grede?

  Also, Rima declined. So actually, I feel like the story on the internet is the other way around. The story on the internet is that a do and go was booked. The booking then changed on the day of into let, I want to be able to film this content. And actually, it was Esther who decided I'm going to cancel the appointment. Because she wasn't comfortable showing, you know, doing her technique, I think specifically with your business partner.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think being an artist myself and having an agent.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  I don't know everything that my agent communicates with the client. And I think that is something that happened between her and and her agent with the communication. Because we have all the emails and it is like stated exactly as that.

• 44:54Emma Grede?

  No, fair enough. What do you think about the criticism in terms of this idea of how you have presented yourself online? With some of the language being extremely similar to videos that Esther's done in the past. Because there are things in these videos, like she fucks up and she says something like back of palm instead of the back of your hand. You know, there's this thing about. About, you know, using a sponge and that being the technique. There's all of this stuff being thrown at you. And I feel like at some point, like you'll want to clear that up. Like you want people to understand, are you copying Esther's content? Did you look at her video? And let me just be honest, I think that very often I have looked at things and taken inspiration. The question is, did you look at her video and take inspiration?

• 45:37Speaker 01

  No, I filmed that video months before during my campaign shoot, knowing that I wouldn't have time to create content during the actual launch. Her content came out just a week prior, so there is no way that I could have copied her.

• 46:04Speaker 04

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• 46:05Speaker 01

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• 46:07Speaker 04

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• 46:10Speaker 01

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• 46:16Speaker 04

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• 46:28Speaker 01

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• 46:33Speaker 04

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• 46:38Speaker 01

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• 46:39Speaker 04

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• 46:53Emma Grede?

  How are you even feeling as you go through this? Because it feels like there's a part of this that feels like petty internet drama. There's a part of it that feels deeply sort of layered and connected reputationally to things that have happened in the past. Like, where are you at with this now? Are you regretful of the situation? Do you wish it went down? Have you, like, have you spoken to Esther?

• 47:13Speaker 01

  I reached out to Esther to have like a conversation, artist to artist, and she hasn't responded. I have had nothing but amazing interactions with Esther, so I'm actually really shocked that.

• 47:26Emma Grede?

  Well, she's someone you admire. You admired her enough to think that she's great and you've loved what she's done in the past.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm just like really. How this all unfolded was just like honestly like really unfortunate.

• 47:40Emma Grede?

  No, fair. I, listen, I, I think it's really important to have the conversation and I think as a business owner, I would be lying if I said I hadn't found myself in similar situations. And I have absolutely always tried to resolve them woman to woman. I mean, I, I had a situation not so long ago, actually, where we had made, you know, like, what do you call it? A sleeping mask in one of my brands. And the woman who owns this incredible, you know, the silk company that does the hairbands and the face masks and the pillowcases, she reached out to me and she said, hey, Emma, you have copied my mask. And I said, no, no, no, there's no way we have. And she said, yeah, girl, you have, because we have a proprietary way of padding the masks that protects your eyelashes. And I was like, let me check this out.

• 48:24Emma Grede?

  I had a look, she holds a pattern for that. And I was like, oh shit. Now, I always think that when you're dealing with a situation like that, throwing your hands up and going, you know what? And which is what I did, I phoned her up, I said, I think that I have X amount of thousands of these left. I'm going to take them off this, off the website. I am so sorry, we will not continue with this product. And I don't know, maybe three months later, something came up where I needed this type of product. And I called her up and we did a collaboration. And right now there is a collaboration between our brand and her brand that's in the stores. And we figured it out. I have had countless things that have happened like that. And some have ended up in worse situations and gone all the way through the kind of legal system.

• 49:09Emma Grede?

  And some that have, you know, ended less well. But I feel like there's always a way to resolve, so long as you're going, here's the thing I did and here's the accountability that I took. I'm sure that you feel a sense of accountability in all of this.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  So as a brand founder and as the, the brand being my name, I take full responsibility of everything that this brand does. And

• 49:33Emma Grede?

  You look really sad about it.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  I'm like, I'm sad that my, I don't have like the right word, but I think I'm sad that like, people are taking my integrity away from me when I can't even like defend myself, which I'm not trying to defend myself.

• 50:00Emma Grede?

  You know, I never found a situation like this where there wasn't a way to make amends. And I think artist to artist, when two incredibly creative and talented people, you know, I'm sure she doesn't feel so great about the situation either in a different way, but I'm pretty sure that if the intent is there to make amends, that you'll be able to do that. And I hope that you find that because that's kind of what I'm seeing in your face and your eyes right now.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  I still respect her so much as an artist. I would love to do something with her. It is really unfortunate how this all unfolded and I want to work with her. I want to have a conversation with her and I want to hear her and really understand because I don't live her life. What this has taught me, like, I think it reminds me of the younger artists in myself of, I think back now, like, I am where I am, but if this happened to me as me as a younger artist and people not knowing who I am for something that like, or not being recognized for something that I contributed to, I would be upset.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  So it is especially important for me to allow people to feel seen just as much as I wish for.

• 51:17Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I feel like your whole brand has really been built on that from the beginning. And so I genuinely hope that you can find the resolve. I really, I really, really do. You know, when I think about it and, you know, I experienced so much of this myself recently, like, the internet is such a double edged sword, right? Because you've essentially built your brand on your social media presence and your incredible clients and your artistry, of course, but it's like what that, what social has given you, it can also. Have this like other side, this kind of underbelly to it. How are you at this point in your career as a thirty five year old man, thinking about the way that you turn up in an online environment, in a social environment? Has that shifted and changed for you?

• 51:58Speaker 01

  It has not really shifted for me. I feel like I've had a very slow and steady career. I've never had like a shoot up to like, like stardom. I've been in the industry for a very long time. And I use social media for what it is. I share my own personal experiences. I share my artistry and I share my life and I'm going to continue to because I do it because I love it. There are perks and there are things that come with it, but I think it's where we are.

• 52:33Emma Grede?

  It's where we are. It's part of it. What do you think the next chapter looks like for Patrick Tarbeauty?

• 52:40Speaker 01

  So even though the brand is seven years old, there's so much that I want to do. There's so much like purpose driven initiatives that I want to do. We launched like three years ago, Beauty That Brings You Out. When I was like with my team, like concepting that, like tears like ran down my face when, when, when I heard beauty that brings you out because I connect with it so much. Beauty has brought me out of the closet. It's given me my voice.

• 53:11Emma Grede?

  It feels like it means a lot to you. Why do you feel so upset?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  I am a very empathetic person because of my life experiences. And I feel like what people feel. And it just makes me sad that I contributed to something like that.

• 53:34Emma Grede?

  I understand. You know, I think it's actually extremely reassuring. That something like this actually touches you like that. Because if you were sitting here feeling totally fine and trying to move on, I think that that would be far worse. I think that you are somebody that has tried to understand the impact of what's happened, even if it wasn't your intention. And I can only say that I feel like, you know, you know, I wrote a book recently and lots of it was extremely loved and extremely well received. And other parts of it were really not. And, you know, you immediately, for me, I felt extremely combative. And then I was like, oh shit, like, let me listen to some of this stuff.

• 54:17Emma Grede?

  And actually, it's really amazing to be at the top of your game and have something kind of shake you to the core and have a moment of reflection. And you know what happens? You fucking grow from it. And you know this because you've been bankrupt, you've had shit things in your life, you've had ups and downs. And when you are, you know, growing something, shit happens. Like, it really, really does. The only thing that would be worse than now is if you didn't learn anything from it. That's what it comes down to. And it feels to me like you are just going through the moment of learning through it. So, good for you. Good, I'm glad you're fucking upset and I think that you're amazing and you'll figure shit out.

• 54:58Emma Grede?

  I'm so happy that you would even come and speak so honestly about it because a lot of people would have their fucking teams tell me, "He doesn't want to talk about it, you can't ask this question, you can't say that." And so I give you full credit for actually having the balls of sitting there and willing to take the questions and have the conversation about it. Because a lot of people shy away from it. So, I'm grateful to you. When you think about where you are right now in your life and with this brand, what is it that you still aspire to?

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Like I said in the very beginning, I've always been a dreamer. And something that I always like to say is,

• 55:36Speaker 01

  I like to dream with my eyes closed because I want to be able to create and see what others can't.

• 55:44Emma Grede?

  It's so poetic and beautiful. That's a good answer to that. It's really good. All right, I'm going to move you to some rapid fire and get you the fuck out of here.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 55:52Emma Grede?

  All right, you ready? What's one product in your line that every woman needs right now?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  My lip balm for sure.

• 55:58Emma Grede?

  What's one healthy habit or routine that you swear by?

• 56:02Speaker 01

  But I feel like I have a lot, but.

• 56:03Emma Grede?

  Give me them all, don't get me.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Just trying to get myself to the gym.

• 56:08Emma Grede?

  How often are you in the gym?

• 56:09Speaker 01

  When I am in Los Angeles, at least like four or five days a week, and I'm traveling maybe two.

• 56:15Emma Grede?

  What is the most underutilized makeup hack?

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Probably setting your lip liner with powder.

• 56:20Emma Grede?

  Setting your lip liner?

• 56:22Speaker 01

  So it stays longer.

• 56:22Emma Grede?

  What is a book that changed your life?

• 56:24Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be honest, like, I don't read that much, so I need to start.

• 56:28Emma Grede?

  I actually love that honesty. That is really good. I'll give you my book. You're supposed to say, start with yourself, Patrick.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Start with yourself.

• 56:36Emma Grede?

  That's it. Patrick, thank you so much. You're amazing.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 56:39Emma Grede?

  I appreciate you beyond.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 56:44Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown, and me. Executive producers from Audacy are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetech and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.

• 57:26Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME. Josefina Francis, Hillary Schaff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.