Conor Dwyer: An Olympic Gold Medalist On Why Hard Work Beats Talent That Doesn’t Work Hard

I know what you’re thinking. It's rather convenient for any Olympic athlete to say that hard work trumps talent. For perspective, take a glance at the palmarès of this week's guest: * 2012 London Olympics: Gold in the 4×200 meter freestyle relay * 2016 Rio Olympics: Gold in the 4×200 meter freestyle relay * 2016 Rio Olympics: Bronze in the 200 meter freestyle In total, Conor Dwyer has won seventeen medals in major international swimming competitions: nine gold, six silver, and two bronze. I could geek out on his statistics forever but you get the picture. The dude is super fast in the pool; one of the fastest swimmers of all time. An extraordinary athlete, Conor is obviously immensely talented. So this idea that hard work beats talent can't possibly apply to him, right? Not so fast. Conor was the furthest thing from a natural talent right out of the gate. His performances out of high school were so mediocre in fact, he couldn't even get the attention of college coaches let alone a swimming scholarship. I simply cannot overstate how rare it is in competitive swimming that an athlete of his current caliber had yet to distinguish himself by 18. It just doesn't happen. But Conor refused to give up. Through persistence and a robust work ethic relentlessly applied, a series of circumstances slowly aligned. A believing coach appeared to mentor him, followed by training partners to push him to new levels of possibility and further fuel his self-belief in potential. Over time, all the important ingredients alchemized to bake the cake that is the superstar athlete we know today as Conor Dwyer. This week Conor shares his extraordinary story from bench warmer to Olympic champion. A story that lays bare a simple core truth I have experienced myself: when the heart is pure and fueled by self-belief, extreme faith, unwavering patience and an unabating work ethic, the universe conspires to support the dream. One of the good guys, Conor lives it with every breath. A recipe for success that has fueled his accomplishments and will support anyone — irrespective of talent level — in the pursuit of an audacious dream. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  I truly do believe that hard work can beat talent when talent doesn't work hard. I've always taken that quote to heart. And I think everyone on the Olympic team does have talent, but at some point, there's no way to take shortcuts and get on that podium. So I've always tried to do things the right way with my coaches, with my training, with my diet, and take any advantage I can and outwork people. And that's how I think I've beaten all the best swimmers in the world.

• 1:35Rich Roll?

  That's Connor Dwyer, this week, on the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:49Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:52Rich Roll?

  I know what you're thinking, pretty convenient for a guy like Conor Dwyer to say hard work trumps talent, because this is a guy who is a two-time Olympian and a two-time Olympic gold medalist swimmer. Just to break it down for you all, here's what this guy has done. In Rio 2016, he won gold on the 4x200 meter free relay. Also in 2016, bronze in the 200 meter freestyle. In London 2012, again, a gold in the 4x200 free relay, along with a little-known athlete you might know, named Michael Phelps. In total, he has won 17 medals in major international competitions, nine gold, six silver, and two bronze. I could geek out on his stats forever, but I think you get

• 2:32Rich Roll?

  the picture. The dude is super fast in the pool, one of the fastest ever. He's obviously ridiculously talented, right? So, this idea that hard work trumps talent, well, it doesn't really seem to apply to a guy like Conor, right? Well, not so fast, because if that's what you're thinking, you're off the mark. Conor was not a natural talent right out of the gate. In fact, when he graduated high school, this guy couldn't even get the attention of college coaches, let alone land a scholarship to swim, which is unbelievably rare, at least in the sport of swimming, that an athlete of his caliber had not yet distinguished himself by the age of 18, because usually by this time, you already kind of know the

• 3:17Rich Roll?

  score of where this person is going to go. But slowly, a series of circumstances aligned, a particular coach and a mentor showed up, the right training partners presented themselves, and this person met with that person. Basically, all the ingredients began to congeal to bake the cake that is the superstar athlete we know today as Conor Dwyer. I'm Rich Roll, this is my podcast, and today, we explore the core elements mandatory for peak performance, no matter what the talent level. And those elements are hard work, Persistence, consistency, and showing up always.

• 4:00Rich Roll?

  It's the match that ignited it all for Conor. It's what continues to keep his bright flame burning. And I think it's something that you'll find behind the scenes with essentially every human who successfully decides to go pro in what they do, whether an athlete, an artist, a writer, an entrepreneur, a parent, or really anything. Conor lives it. He breathes it. He walks his talk. And that's really what I love about this guy, among many other things. So I'm in New York City right now, but as many of you guys know, I was just in Australia for about two weeks for a couple of speaking events, which were amazing. The whole experience was phenomenal. It was great.

• 4:41Rich Roll?

  I just love the Aussie culture, the people, the food, the weather. It was just absolutely blew my mind on every level. And we were staying in Bondi Beach in Sydney for most of the trip, which was about a five-minute walk from this famous outdoor ocean pool called Icebergs that I got to swim in almost every day. It was incredible. I also got to swim at this other pool called Andrew Boy Charlton, which was perhaps the most beautiful swimming pool I've ever seen in my life. And I just loved the whole experience. And one of the things that we did when we were in Australia is Julie and I took a ferry to a place called Manly Beach. And as the ferry was pulling up at the wharf and we were walking into town, I saw a huge

• 5:22Rich Roll?

  street sign that said, "Home of the Budgie Smuggler," which is the Australian nickname for the Speedo. I guess the whole town is known for that. I'm not quite sure what the backstory is, but it's kind of hilarious. And it speaks to the swimming culture of Australia, something I'm all about, something I love deeply. And it's great because the podcast this week is all about swimming and because today's guest is one of the most famous and accomplished Speedo-wearing people on the planet.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  And it's all coming up quick, but first.

• 5:58Rich Roll?

  Okay, Conor Dwyer. What can I say? Conor is just one of the nicest, most grounded, genuine kids I have ever met in elite sport. He's just, he's just a good, good guy. One of the, one of the good ones you just root for and you really want to see win. And I'm gonna let him share the rest. So, without further ado, here's my conversation with Conor Dwyer.

• 6:26Rich Roll?

  Let's do it, man. Let's do it. Manhattan Beach, what's not to love? Beautiful day, sitting here with Conor Dwyer in your, in your humble Southern California boat. Not so humble, actually. You're right on the beach, right on the strand. And I gotta say, before we even get into this, as I was knocking on the door, or like, opening up the door, I had this crazy deja vu moment. Because I honestly think that I used to hang out in this apartment, like, in the late 1990s. I had buddies that live, I'm 95% sure this is the same apartment, not totally convinced, when I used to come down here to party. And the fact that I'm sitting here, I'm like, it's tripping me out right now, so. Well, it's good to have you back in Manhattan Beach.

• 7:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, anyway, man, great to, great to talk to you. We met, we met at the Olympic Training Center when I went out there via Jack Roach to, to talk with the national junior team. We didn't, we took a, we took an Instagram. Yeah. We didn't really talk that much. Yeah, it was post-practice. Yeah, you guys were, were working out. What was cool for me about that experience was, I was there to kind of talk to the younger kids, but yourself, who else was there? Ryan Lochte was there, Tyler Clary. Phelps wasn't, I think Phelps had just left when I got there. He wasn't there when I was there. Okay. Ryan was there. I mean, there was a- Deki might have been there. It was a good, I think it was a strong contingent. Yeah, she was there. She was just leaving too. There was maybe like, five or six or

• 7:50Rich Roll?

  eight of you guys, like, kind of like, USA national team in residence, like, preparing for, for Rio. And I got to watch you guys work out a little bit. Super cool. Yeah, good times. And, yeah, man. And you guys went and rocked it in Rio. And now you're in the aftermath of that. And as I was coming over here, uh, kind of trying to wrap my head around like what to talk to you about. And, and kind of looking at your, your Instagram. I'm like, this guy's living like the life of Riley. Like you're going to the Super Bowl, you're going to the Golden Globes, you're going to the Grammys. You know, it looks like you're hanging out with Chance the Rapper. Like you're going to Fashion Week and like all this stuff. Like what's up with your life right now?

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah. The post Olympic tour was, um, it's been a whirlwind, but it was a blast. I got to do a ton of fun things. Um, I, I live Manhattan Beach here. I've been traveling around with my cousin, doing surf trips in Costa Rica and Mexico. Uh, adventure trips and then fun events. Uh, I got to see a kid I've known from Chicago. Um, Chance the Rapper since high school did something.

• 8:56Rich Roll?

  Oh, so you wait, hold on a second. You're friends with him from high school?

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, my, my friend on the swimming team actually found Chance at an open mic in Chicago. Has been managing him since, and it's unbelievable to see what those guys have done. They, um, the Grammys had to switch up the rules because, uh, Chance is the only non-label artist to, to be nominated for a Grammy. And he won three Grammys. So it's been, uh, an incredible year for, for Pat and Chance. And I couldn't be more excited for what they did and changed the game.

• 9:27Rich Roll?

  Wow. So you go, so you go way back with those guys?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:30Rich Roll?

  And wait a minute. So Chance is not on a major, I should know this, but he's not on a major record label?

• 9:36Speaker 01

  No. And, um, he, he releases all his music for free, um, which is very cool. Did a deal with, with Apple and Spotify and SoundCloud. And, um, they just make money off touring and merchandise. And he's done a lot of great things for the city of Chicago, which is where I'm born and raised. They've been struggling, um, lately with, with gun violence and he's trying to help that. So couldn't be more proud of those guys with what they've been doing.

• 10:00Rich Roll?

  That's pretty cool. He's tight with Obama too, I think.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  He is, yeah, Chicago kids, you know?

• 10:05Rich Roll?

  That's pretty amazing. So were you like front and center at the Grammys?

• 10:08Speaker 01

  I just went, um, post, uh, that he had an event with, uh, GQ after and, and saw a bunch of the guys that I've known since high school. My twin actually goes on tour with those guys and he trains them.

• 10:22Rich Roll?

  Your twin brother?

• 10:23Speaker 01

  My twin brother, yeah. So he's the trainer on the Chance tour. Uh, they're going back on tour in a month or two. Big arenas. I think they sold out almost everything in, in five minutes. So it'll be cool to see them do another big tour.

• 10:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that guy is blown up.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:39Rich Roll?

  You know, and what's the manager's name again?

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Uh, Pat, the manager, Pat Corcoran.

• 10:43Rich Roll?

  Gotcha. Yeah, he's sort of like a Scooter Braun in the making.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 10:48Rich Roll?

  That's pretty cool.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  And we swam together, so.

• 10:50Rich Roll?

  Oh, he was a swimmer too?

• 10:51Speaker 01

  He was a swimmer.

• 10:51Rich Roll?

  Chance wasn't though, was he?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Chance wasn't. No, no, he wasn't a swimmer.

• 10:55Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:56Rich Roll?

  Cool. And you were at the Super Bowl.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Super Bowl. I was at the Super Bowl. Game seven, I saw my Chicago Cubs win a World Series and the Olympics. It's been one hell of a year as as far as witnessing sports and getting to partake in, in the Olympic Games. I, I'm a born and raised Cubs fan, but what I witnessed at the Super Bowl might've been the greatest game I've ever seen.

• 11:17Rich Roll?

  It was pretty insane.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think they said with three minutes and 30 seconds left, um, Atlanta had like a 96.3 probability of winning the Super Bowl. So the, the, they had no shot and it was, that outcome was unbelievable.

• 11:32Rich Roll?

  Right. So you're, are you diehard Pats fan? Does that go way back or?

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Um, my, my cousin is friends with Robert Kraft. She helps, um, him and the Patriots. So I've kind of been with them. I'm also, I, I love Tom Brady and his story. I, I kinda, um, him not getting drafted. He had like a, I think I've seen his resume. He had, he blew it out that he was going to go into finance like his senior year of college and now he's got five Super Bowl rings. I kinda liked that. Um, compared to my story where I wasn't recruited out of high school and wasn't that good my first two years of college. So I love Tom Brady's story and I, I hopped on that wagon a little while ago because my Bears haven't been that good.

• 12:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, I think that's a very interesting point. I was going to get to that a little bit later, but maybe we can kind of start to unpack that now. I mean, I was, I was kind of looking at your Wikipedia and out of high school, you were a 144, 200 freestyler and like a through, like a 445, 500 freestyler.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:32Rich Roll?

  Now for people that don't follow swimming, that is like

• 12:34Speaker 01

  442, 442.

• 12:36Rich Roll?

  Alright, so like these are, those are decent times. That's like a, that's like a good high school swimmer. That is not, that's not going to get you a college scholarship. And it's about the furthest thing from putting you on an Olympic team, right? So it is a very Tom Brady-esque kind of thing. Like, how do you go? And that was like, what, 2007?

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:56Rich Roll?

  And then 2010, you're winning instant NCAA championships. So in a period of two and a half, three years, how do you go from basically like a, like a sort of a, you know, somewhat above average high school swimmer to being like this celebrated Olympic hopeful?

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I was always the hardest worker, no matter what sport I did, and I loved competition. A lot of things played a factor in my career taking off my junior year. I owe a lot of thanks to Janet Evans, who helped me transfer from Iowa to Florida, got me in touch with Greg Troy.

• 13:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so let's, let's slow down, dude. Let's tell that, tell that story. It's an interesting story.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I listen, my dad's company hired Janet to give us a motivational speech, and I listened to it when I was 16 in the back of this room and with all these finance guys. And I was a swimmer, I idolized her, and I heard her work ethic and things she did. And we luckily became friends, so, and she always mentored me. I just missed NCAA's my sophomore year, and I was a little bummed out. And Janet contacted five of the best universities in the country and said, I have this kid, he's very hardworking, he's just starting to grow. I grew five inches in college. I was, I was small leaving high school. And four, four of those coaches said no.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Greg Troy said yes to Janet Evans. And a year later, Greg Troy was texting Janet saying, "Thank you for letting him on the team because he's the hardest worker, and he's, I was the NCAA swimmer of the year after one year at Florida."

• 14:35Rich Roll?

  Right, so, so out of high school in Chicago, you, did you walk on at Iowa?

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, so funny enough, a lot, like you said, a lot of people get recruited out of college. I flew my own way with my mom, who at this time is taller than me. I'm 5'10", 150 pounds.

• 14:51Rich Roll?

  Right, and for people that are listening, you're 6'5" now.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  6'5", yeah, 190. So I would go to these coaches and say, "I just really got into swimming my senior year. These are my times. I promise I'll work hard." And I think I can help your team out and I won't name names of these colleges, but a lot of them didn't even. I flew out to one school in particular, said, I'm here, I'd love to just shake your hand, meet you, maybe walk on and, and he wouldn't even. Meet me, so.

• 15:18Rich Roll?

  And when you were in high school, just for context, you were playing other sports, right? So were you a, I'm getting up at five o'clock in the morning and going to morning practice and going to practice, like doing that whole like double workout, like club. Swimming scene, or were you kind of late to that kind of work ethic?

• 15:36Speaker 01

  I was late to that work ethic. I was, I was doing that. I was de-icing my car in Chicago at 5:00 AM, three times a week. When I was in season, but when I was out of season, I was doing all the other sports I love to do with my brothers, friends, cousins. So. I didn't really dive fully into swimming until my senior year after high school state.

• 15:56Rich Roll?

  Right. So there was a lot of, I mean, setting aside the fact that you still had to grow a foot, like there was a little bit of untapped potential there, right? Cause you weren't a guy who, and there was, I mean, when I came up, like I was swimming with guys, like we, they'd just been doing double workouts since they were like nine years old. You know what I mean?

• 16:12Speaker 01

  That's how a lot of it is, you know, as a swimmer.

• 16:14Rich Roll?

  It's, it's unusual actually to find like a diamond in the rough that hasn't kind of gone through that, you know, that system yet and still has. You know, a place to grow as they're going into college. So, all right. So you end up at, Iowa was like, all right, come on. And they're like, we'll take you.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, there, I think they're nine or 10th and they were the bottom of the big 10.

• 16:35Rich Roll?

  Who's the coach?

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Mark Long. Let me walk on and, and after a year I was. The best guy on the team and in college I went walk on full ride at Iowa, walk on captain at Iowa and then.

• 16:48Rich Roll?

  So sophomore year, you're captain of the team?

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Captain of the Iowa team.

• 16:51Rich Roll?

  How much did you improve? Like what, what did your team improve on?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  A 142 to a 135. I was the only guy at Iowa.

• 16:59Rich Roll?

  That's like an insane leap.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  I took off and then.

• 17:04Rich Roll?

  So you, you, so did you final at NC2As your sophomore year?

• 17:08Speaker 01

  I missed it my freshman year, then the suit era came and I'm still not grown. I'm still. Untapped and I just didn't like those bodysuits. I hated them. And so I went 135 again and I remember how frustrated I was not making NC2As my sophomore year and I just wasn't a suit guy or I just didn't know how to utilize the suit. And then I went from a 135, walked on at the University of Iowa and went a 132.3.

• 17:36Rich Roll?

  At Florida.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  At Florida. Yeah, my junior year and like 412.

• 17:42Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Um, I went from 420 to 412.

• 17:44Rich Roll?

  Literally dropped half a minute off your 500 free time.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  It's unheard of. It's unheard of. But I mean, I, the Florida work ethic was, I mean, some might call it like military style. I trained five to seven hours a day. The nutrition played a huge factor in starting to eat clean, but also I was just slamming healthy protein shakes. I put on 15 pounds of muscle in one year.

• 18:09Rich Roll?

  And, and when you first went to Florida, were you, did you walk on initially and then

• 18:13Speaker 01

  I went walk on full ride captain again.

• 18:16Rich Roll?

  Right. Wow. So two years at Iowa, two years of Florida and, and what do you, what was it about? Like, what was the, uh, impact of working under Coach Troy? Like, how did that change how you approached your training and your, your swimming? Like the, the kind of

• 18:33Speaker 01

  It changed more the belief that I had in him and that he had in me. I saw, I was training next to the, the previous NC2A champions, Sean Frazier, Brett Frazier, and one of the best 200 free stars ever, Ryan Lochte. And we would be mid set, 6,000, hitting 200 pace. We're all dying. And he'd go, guys, I, I don't know. I, all I know is that you three are going to be in the NC2A final to Brett Frazier, myself and Sean. It's up to you guys who wants to win it. And I was like, is this guy serious? I just got to the University of Florida. He's saying I have a shot to win an NC2A title? He kept saying that. I win the NC2A title, we have another meeting during practices. He's go,

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Conor, I'm going to get you in that Olympic trial, trial final. It's going to be up to you to make the team, but all the work's going to be done and you're going to be ready to make that team. And stuff like that. He would just give me the confidence that, okay, I can get in these finals and I can race the best guys in the world.

• 19:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the, the, the sort of compressed timeframe in which all this happens has to be a little bit dizzying. I mean, literally from being a guy who's like knocking on these coaches' doors and having them not return their, your phone call to having a coach who had that, who held that belief for you and, and swimming with the best guys in the world. I mean, that happened in like a two-year, three-year timeframe, right?

• 19:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was almost, it was, it was very shocking. Just everything that happened from, from Iowa to Florida, but just the positive people I had around me and the training partners I had, the coaches, the staff, the nutritionists, the, the weight room, the dry land, it all, I just kept on getting better and better. Um, with everything new we added to the table. So, uh, it was a fun ride for the two or three years I was at Florida.

• 20:21Rich Roll?

  And how do you kind of mentally approach having to train every single day with the guys that you're going to have to race against? You know, like there's a potential to like really, that could freak some people out or burn, burn them out. Like if you're racing next to the guy every day that you know you're going to have to face at the end of the season at the biggest meet of the year, how do you deal with that day in and day out?

• 20:42Speaker 01

  That's tough. Um, I've always loved training. I, I was in shock and scared the, the first two weeks. I remember calling my parents going like, I've never worked like this. The Monday there, uh, Greg Troy goes, all right, Hawk Guy, let's see what you got. You're going to lead the lane. We're going to do 2400s on five minutes, long course, descend one to five. And I'm next to Ryan Lochte. And on number one, I remember I saw a six beat kick and he took off. I go, I'm going to have to do 8,000 meters getting my butt kicked like this. Like I want to fly home and go back to Iowa, but I just kept grinding and, and following this guy and the other NCAA champions. And I am a competitor. I would

• 21:23Speaker 01

  love to go toe-to-toe, kept getting faster, stronger. And eventually, I remember one day we're doing 10 100s all out off the blocks and I beat Ryan and I go, Holy shit. I'm sorry. I don't know if I can swear.

• 21:36Rich Roll?

  Say whatever you want.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Holy shit, like, maybe I can compete against these guys and then I just, I refuse to lose. After warmup, I refuse to lose in practice to anyone, no matter how good they were, what their ranking was.

• 21:49Rich Roll?

  So that one set, those hundreds, was that, that was a turning point for you?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I held like forty fives, ten one hundreds off the box yards on, um, five minutes, like a lactate set. And I think a lot of the team was shocked and I, I shocked myself, but that was the motivation I needed to say, I can compete, can compete against anyone in the world.

• 22:09Rich Roll?

  Uh, and when you were a kid in high school, did you have this belief, like, that this was gonna be your path? Or was it just like, yeah, I wanna swim in college, like, let me see if anyone will take me? Or did you have a sense like that there was some kind of destiny waiting for you in this sport?

• 22:25Speaker 01

  I knew, yeah, there was some sort of sense that I, I should be swimming, but I loved water polo too. I was like, should I, I, I was a baseball kid growing up. Should I go play water polo? Is that my calling? Um, but I knew there was untapped talent. I, I could work hard. I just wasn't seeing the results that I wanted to see at Illinois State meets. And maybe it was because I hadn't even gone through puberty, leaving high school. But, uh, I knew there was untapped talent and I did have a love for competing and working hard. So, um, I think once I got to Florida and, and saw the best guys in the world and how they train, that's where I just said, okay, this is, this is the path you take.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Just start beating these guys in practice and you'll see results in competition.

• 23:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah. On that idea of hard work, you know, give, I don't need it because I understand this world, but most people don't, like, give people a glimpse of like what, of what that hard work actually looks like. Like on a day-to-day basis, like what an elite, you know, Olympic, you know, level swimmer, what kind of day they're putting in, in terms of training?

• 23:33Speaker 01

  And, and just as far as training, it's, um, two hours in the morning. Then I, I will, we can get into nutrition later, but I'm, I'm consuming probably six thousand calories a day. Um, and the first two hours swimming, uh, at, at Florida, it was around six to eight thousand meters.

• 23:51Rich Roll?

  And for people that don't know, like, that's not. You're not just, you don't jump in the pool and just swim back and forth eight thousand meters and go home.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  You're pushing.

• 23:58Rich Roll?

  It's like a track workout. You're, you're using a clock, a pace clock, and you're doing interval sets and, and you know, at very high intensities at times.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. So six to eight thousand high intensity. Then we would hit an hour in the gym or consisting of weights, shoulder rotator cuff stuff, a whole lot of core work. We would do an hour of core work every single day. And then we would do two hours again, six to eight thousand meters in the afternoon. And some sort of, uh, we would do stadiums or boxing, something else, something outside the pool. Yeah.

• 24:35Rich Roll?

  At Florida.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  But now that I'm in California and there's these surfboards around and a bike behind me, I, I like to mix it up with all different sports. So I, I like to get out in the ocean and utilize what's right in my backyard or the strand. Hit a 20 mile bike while working out twice a day swimming.

• 24:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, this is a little bit out of the timeline, but you know, we were talking about how, you know, sort of your Olympic success has given you like a lot of very cool opportunities to do fun stuff, right? So you're, you've been on this post Olympic tour of like having a good time. So, and now you're living on the beach here. Like, how do you get like your shit together to like get the eye of the tiger back? You know what I mean? Like, how do you wake up at the crack of fuck, you know, to go to swim practice? When you're like, oh, the surf, you know, I can sleep in and the surf's here and like, I know I'm going to go to the Grammys next week. Like, it's harder, right? It's gotta be harder.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  It's way harder, especially since, uh, I've, I've been pro and the last year I had, um, sponsorship obligations. I had photo shoots. I had interviews every week, maybe TV appearances. Um, it is hard to keep your eye on, on the dream. And stay consistent in training, but that's always something I've been good at. When I do set my goal, I've set my goal for world championships. And I started January 1st. I've been dialed in since, so. When I do set that goal, I dial in and I stake in system and training. But it is in LA, you can get invited, as you know, to fun events or to do this, do that.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Some things you have to sacrifice and last year I sacrificed everything to achieve the dreams and goals that I did.

• 26:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but now they're getting waved in front of you maybe a little bit more than they were before, right? So now you're going to get tested a little bit.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanted to enjoy this year too. The last four years, I was up at altitude for 90 days, had a very serious year. So I'm trying to just train hard, but also take advantage of fun opportunities this year.

• 26:41Rich Roll?

  And what do you think that that kind of relationship is between the work ethic, like the hard work part of success, at least in the sport of swimming versus like the talent, right? Because you're obviously somebody who's you've grown into your talent, but I've heard you say already a couple of times, like you really attribute, you know, a great portion of your success to like this focus and this work ethic, right? So how do you parse that?

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I do. I truly do believe that hard work can beat talent when talent doesn't work hard. I've always taken that quote to heart. And I think everyone on the Olympic team does have talent, but at some point, there's no way to take shortcuts and get on that podium. So I've always tried to do things the right way with my coaches, with my training, with my diet and take any advantage I can and outwork people. And that's how I think I've beaten all the best swimmers in the world.

• 27:43Rich Roll?

  So you're back at Florida, you're starting to fulfill this prophecy, right? Like you're like, weren't you like NCAA swimmer of the year and getting all these accolades and you're winning races like crazy. But the real sort of first big, you know, test on the on the world's greatest stage is Olympic trials in 2012, right?

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:02Rich Roll?

  So like walk me through that.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Well, four years back, I was, I qualified two weeks before they went big trials. So I, I think I finished 70th or 50th in, in the 200 free in 2008. I remember sitting there watching Michael and Ryan, um, battle out before I am. And there's fireworks going off, 13,000 fans going crazy. And I go, wow, like, I think I picked a pretty cool sport. There's 13,000 people in this arena going nuts for swimmers duking it out. And I said, I want to be here four years later. And I was no one like in my story at that time, as far as a competitive swimmer.

• 28:41Rich Roll?

  Right. That was a year out of high school for you, right?

• 28:43Speaker 01

  That was a year out of high school. Yeah. And now four years later, I'm standing next to Michael and Ryan, uh, about to race in front of 13,000 people to get my hand on the wall and, and make that team. And the night before I did make the 400 free, I finished second with a training partner, Peter Vander K. And I remember looking up, seeing the 40 family members I had in a dog pile going crazy. I always have the biggest cheering section. Yeah.

• 29:10Rich Roll?

  Big Chicago Irish family. You had like 40 people come to Rio, right?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Dwyer, the Dwyer clan is, is.

• 29:18Rich Roll?

  Dwyer Nation.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Dwyer Nation is unlike anyone else, man. They, they go, they get rowdy and, um, the relay members all love it. Michael, Ryan, Ricky, now Townley, they always, uh, we combine family forces and, and get the USA cheers going. And without those guys and without the support, um, there's no way I'd, I'd be where I am today.

• 29:39Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Um, but, but yeah, back to 2012, um, just making that team, like you said, and, and my career in such a short time just took off. It was a shock that.

• 29:50Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  I hit the wall and wow, I, I made an Olympic team when two and a half years ago, I wasn't even at the NC2A championships.

• 29:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's insane, right? So you make it in the, you make it in the 400 free and the 200 free.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:02Rich Roll?

  Or 200 free relay.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  4x2 relay.

• 30:04Rich Roll?

  4x2 relay, right? And what was that like? Like showing up in, in London? Like you're still pretty, this is really like, you hadn't really even swam at a, at a major international meet yet.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  One, I swam one relay at a world championships.

• 30:16Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Before that, and now I'm on the biggest stage, um, in, in sports events.

• 30:22Rich Roll?

  How do you get ready for that?

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Again, I had Greg Troy with me. I had Ryan Lochte, who I've seen win eight medals, and I'm training with this guy toe-to-toe every day.

• 30:35Rich Roll?

  What is, before we even go any further, like, it probably bears, you know, sort of comment on, you know, the Ryan that you know versus like the Ryan that we see on TMZ, right?

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:47Rich Roll?

  Like, as somebody who is his training partner, who sees him workout every day, spent, you know, countless hours with the guy, you know, behind, you know, when the cameras are off and all of that. Like, what is, you know, what does that guy really like compared to what we see on television? Setting aside the Rio incident.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  TV has not done that guy justice at all. I love Ryan to the death of me. He's been an incredible friend, training partner, mentor, since I started swimming at Florida. And I'll tell anyone that if you knew Ryan and spent a day and a night with him, he would do anything for you. He's one of the most friendly guys you've ever, ever met. Everyone in the swimming community loves him because he'll take a picture, he'll sign an autograph, he'll do anything for you. But he's just, yeah, he's been through a lot the last year. He's now training again out here with me. But he couldn't be a better teammate and friend to me over the last seven years.

• 31:52Rich Roll?

  So what happened in Rio with the gas station and the whole thing? I mean, I don't want you like, I don't know, can you talk about this?

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. I can talk about it. We don't have to talk about it, only for comfortable. So, I mean, a lot of us, you know, go sober for, for a year, maybe two years, six months. And we were allowed to go out the last night, so we just finished the biggest competition of our four years. Everyone's on a high. We dominated the world in, in Rio. And so, they went to a French party. People got split up that night. Somewhere at this event, somewhere at that event.

• 32:33Rich Roll?

  There are parties happening all over the place.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Parties are, yeah.

• 32:35Rich Roll?

  And they're spread out, right? Like, these are like, long drives.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Long drives, yeah, spread out. So, they, I went to a different event. I see them back at the Village at, at 8:00 or 9:00 a.m. when we're going to a team meeting at... Copacabana Beach and I on the bus ride over we we hear of all this drama that starts coming and everyone's trying to piece together this this story that happened last night. No one really knows. And then it was just shit hit the fan. There's people getting interviewed during this meeting. And a lot of us were in the dark about what was really going on and what happened. So like you guys were sitting, listening to the news like coaches can't say anything teammates have no idea what's going on.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Jimmy and and Ryan and Gunner and Jack are getting interviewed by uh

• 33:26Rich Roll?

  Those are the guys that were

• 33:27Speaker 01

  FBI agents and then by Brazil people. And then um Ryan got out of the country. Uh I was on the plane ride home with Jack Conor and Gunner Benz. They got ripped off the plane by federal agents in Brazil.

• 33:41Rich Roll?

  Right. That happened like right before the doors closed, right?

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Right before the doors closed. They're sitting in their seats thinking, hey, we're we're gonna get home. Um all is okay. And then six agents come flying on the plane, rip these twenty two year olds off. I'm sure they're scared shitless getting pulled off by agents in a third world country. And um yeah, that's that's pretty much how it went down.

• 34:04Rich Roll?

  Right. And you had been like you were were you with Ryan earlier in the night?

• 34:08Speaker 01

  I was with them at dinner and then I went to a different event at a hotel. Um and they were at this this French party all night and

• 34:16Rich Roll?

  I'm sure you're glad you

• 34:18Speaker 01

  I'm very glad I was not at that party in their cab because they got plastered over their media. Um but I mean yeah, they they made some wrong choices on on how Ryan told the story, but a lot stuff happens after you celebrate um a big win. It's just tragic that the story was mistold.

• 34:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And what is it like? Is there any ongoing aftermath to that? Or did everything get resolved? Like I forget how the whole thing

• 34:45Speaker 01

  I think Ryan got suspended for a year or two. The other guys are fine. Um I I know Jimmy had some tough stuff happen with a business he was gonna start up, but for the most part, I think um everyone's over it. I hope.

• 35:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, the other guys like had to kind of I feel I feel terrible for those guys because they had to live with this situation that they I mean, they were at the wrong they were involved and they were there, but they weren't the one sort of facing the media telling these stories that turned out to not be true, but they had to suffer the consequences of that. And just to be in a foreign country and kind of behind locked doors with authorities, you know, at that age, that's got to be a harrowing situation.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was tough for them. And I think they struggled with what what to say, what not to say, should I get Ryan's back? Should I help out myself? So I'm sure those guys went through a tough mental battle during that time in their life.

• 35:42Rich Roll?

  Brutal. All right, man. Well, back to 2012. So you're a so you're going to you're going to London. And this is other than that one world championship relay like this is this is the big show, right? So like, what's going through your head when you kind of show up at the Olympic Village?

• 35:59Speaker 01

  More just that I'm walking around with the greatest team on this planet getting I thought the coolest thing was going into these huge rooms and getting to put on all the you get to swag bags left and right. You get Nike gear, you get Ralph, you get Oakley, anything you want, USA, you get it. And I'm thinking this is the coolest thing ever. I get all free us free USA gear. And I'm sitting here getting gear with Serena Williams, Venus Williams, LeBron, Kobe, they're coming to the village to say hi to us the night before we compete. And I've idolized these athletes my entire life. Now I get to be I get to wear the red, white and blue and be teammates with them. It was it was a dream come true. And there was a lot of confidence because we had so many

• 36:44Speaker 01

  good veterans like Michael and Ryan saying, you've competed, you've earned your spot on this team. Some say it's harder. I think after doing this three times now, it's harder to make. It's harder to compete at the Olympic trials than it is at the Olympic Games. The pressure at the Olympic Games, if you don't get top two, you're done. Your dream's done. So.

• 37:06Rich Roll?

  At trials.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  At trials. I thought the pressure was worse at trials. But I remember at London, I'm a rookie, sitting in the ready room with France, who just ran down Ryan to win the gold. China and Michael just lost the 205 for the second time in his career. And he walks into the ready room and he's like, Ryan Conor, you better get me a fucking lead. I'm like, oh my God, I have the greatest Olympian of all time telling me I'm a rookie 23. And I've competed once on the Olympic stage, or once on a international stage saying Conor, get me a lead at the Olympic Games. Thankfully, we did.

• 37:43Rich Roll?

  That's heavy.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  That was his race where he became the most winningest Olympian of all time. And he brought us in the huddle after and was like, thank you guys. We all had no idea. It was, I think to win his 23rd medal of all time. So it was.

• 37:55Rich Roll?

  Were you aware of that going into that relay?

• 37:58Speaker 01

  No clue. I was so dialed in on what I had to do to help the team win a medal that I didn't know what was going on. Coach Troy was good at putting, making me have blinders on and just staying with, you know, my warmups, my massages, my ice tanks, nutrition, that you really, I didn't walk in opening ceremonies. I'm just ready. I'm there to compete and get the job done for the team.

• 38:24Rich Roll?

  And it's extra heightened. There's a lot more pressure in a relay context because it's not like, if it's just you and you screw up, then it's on you.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:33Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? But are you gonna be the guy who's gonna screw it up for Michael Phelps?

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. That's, there is nerves that way. You're like, oh, do not false start. Do not do anything that's, that's gonna cost you. But I dove in and I just remembered, I'm like, I've swam the 200 free so many times. It's the same distance. I know how to do this. Just have faith in your training, have faith in, in what Coach Troy has taught you. And you'll, you'll do well. And I, I split a 145, one. So second fastest split on the relay.

• 39:07Rich Roll?

  Right. What is the, you know, what, what, what do you think it is about the Olympics that maybe, you know, us who just watch it on TV at home, can't really fully fathom or understand about that experience?

• 39:22Speaker 01

  Um, just, yeah, that's, that's a great question. I, I think just getting to be on one team, um, with all these athletes, like I said, that I idolize, um, when there's golf or like Ricky Fowler and these guys are back there wishing us luck. In Rio, we get out from winning a gold, I let off the relay. We go through the media zone and I have Kevin Durant just giving me a huge hug and high five and the whole, the whole basketball team. I'm a big basketball fan. I go, now, we have Kevin Durant and the whole dream team asking to take pictures with four swimmers who just won a gold medal. I don't know if you can like really see that anywhere else. See Team USA come together and you have some

• 40:06Speaker 01

  of the biggest stars on the planet asking to take pictures.

• 40:09Rich Roll?

  Right. We have Leslie Jones like losing her shit for you, right? Like she's ready to, she's ready to marry you.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Leslie was going nuts. She was a, she was a good one, a good fan. Then we had McConaughey in there cheering with the swimmers. Um, we, it was Rio and London were, um, I'm lucky enough to have two amazing cities and two unbelievable experiences at my Olympic Games.

• 40:31Rich Roll?

  And when you go into, like when you're heading into, like you're, you're, you're in the ready room, you're getting ready for, you know, the four by 200 relay, whether it's London or Rio, like what is the, is there like a technique that you employ to get into the right mindset? Or is it just, look, I've been training five hours a day for the last, you know, 10 years. Like I know what to do and you just turn your brain off and just go into autopilot? Or what is your approach?

• 40:59Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm, yeah, I've done, um, a lot of mindset work for before I race. Um, I, I have the same routine every time as far as warming up, getting a shake out, um, listening to music, getting a shake out by the massage therapist. And then I, I take my headphones off and, and kind of get in the zone. Um, I've rehearsed this race both in my head and done things in training day in and day out. But, um, I like to get, um, very mentally tough and in the zone in the ready room. Um, stuff I, I've, I've trained and it's all about. Racing and competing, but you have to break the guys next to you. So I'm getting in that mental zone, almost like I'm getting ready for battle because at some point, there's going

• 41:42Speaker 01

  to be a point in that race and it's probably going to be the last 15 meters where it's who wants it more and who's willing to push yourself to limits that you didn't think you could go. So it is a weird zone. You have to get it in your head that you're like, all right, I'm going into battle. This is going to hurt a lot, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna get my hand on the wall.

• 41:59Rich Roll?

  And is that like a, an inner dialogue with you and yourself? Or is that about like head games with the other people in the ready room that you're going to be racing against?

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not giving the Phelps face. I'm not in there like.

• 42:13Rich Roll?

  I think people like really knew what the ready room was until Phelps face became like an international meme, but.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, no, it's weird because you have these eight people. You're, you're just sitting like we are. We're sitting on chairs, sitting on the couch about to go compete for a gold medal and the guys right next to you, some have music on, some are stretching, some are clapping and yelling, but I kind of stay in my, stay in my zone.

• 42:35Rich Roll?

  And you know these guys.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  I know them. Yeah.

• 42:37Rich Roll?

  Racing, it's not like they're, you've never seen these people before. Like you know who these, you've raced them many times in the past.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, some of them I'll say hi to in the ready room, but I'm, unless there's a Team USA guy in there, I'm not talking to anyone. I'm just focusing, getting in the zone. And then that, when you walk out, I'm, I'm still in the zone, just kind of trying to get ready for my race. But when the gun goes off, I think I, I do go into somewhat of an autopilot and do what I've been doing in training and only positive thoughts are going into my head.

• 43:09Rich Roll?

  But the mindset, like sort of exercises, are they, it's just like some technique you've developed on your own? Or are there exercises that you do or some kind of formal practice that you have for that?

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've learned through sports psych people on mindset and, and different things to think about. And then some breathing techniques. I like to be very, very relaxed before I go off because I'm about to exert every ounce of energy I have. So different breathing techniques and mindset, I think is.

• 43:39Rich Roll?

  Like what kind of breathing techniques?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Um, we've learned them through USA swimming guys on how to like try and expand our lungs. So, so things I'll do as far as inhale, exhale, and, and it's probably like a two or three minute exercise, um, just that I think helps tone down my heart rate and kind of expand my lungs.

• 44:01Rich Roll?

  That's cool, man. Do you know, uh, Michael Gervais?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  I've, yeah, he's worked with like the Seahawks a lot.

• 44:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he's, he's right down the strand here.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  I haven't seen him, yeah. I'd love to work with him.

• 44:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you should, you should meet him.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  He's a legend as far as sports psychos.

• 44:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he's worked with a lot of swimmers too.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:18Rich Roll?

  So, um, that could be good for you, man.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that'd be awesome.

• 44:21Rich Roll?

  Does it, did your, did your, uh, training change from 2012 to 2016? Like what has evolved in your approach over the years?

• 44:32Speaker 01

  I've been all, some people have trained in the same place for 10 years. I've been all over the map. So after 2012, um, it was, yeah, I was there for like six months again in Gainesville. I just needed a change. I wanted to do something different. I went and moved and trained with Phelps for a year in Baltimore.

• 44:50Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  And I just.

• 44:52Rich Roll?

  How was that?

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Uh, it was, I love Michael. He's one, one of my best friends, but it was in his heyday when he was, he was, um, not in the right place.

• 45:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, witch hate, witch.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Around this time he got his second, um, DUI. He, um, he was going through a lot, uh, in his life and we, we lived, trained together. He was a great friend.

• 45:14Rich Roll?

  You're living with him also?

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Yes. Um, I was living with him at that time and, and he kind of needed to sort some things out. We had a great time living together. Um, and then I moved out here in 2014 and I've been training here with, um, John Urbanscheck, Coach Salo, Jack Roach has helped me out a lot, um, and a ton of weights people. But yeah, I did live with Michael for almost, uh, a little over a year in Baltimore.

• 45:39Rich Roll?

  Uh huh, working with Bowman?

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Working with Bowman and then I, I worked with Coach Bowman. We, we didn't see eye to eye a lot. And I think a lot of it was because Michael was, um, not being consistent and he was, he was all over the place. As far as when I was living there, training and doing. Things that he he shouldn't have been doing um and I I think it to that just kind of wore on me because The only way I knew how to train was to do everything right. And I was and he was he was not doing everything right at that time, so I didn't. My head was kind of thrown for a loop um training with him and and Bob and also I went from training in sunny Florida to If you ever walk into where Michael Phelps trained in Baltimore.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  People would be in shock and awe. It is a dump. No offense to to uh the Baltimore pool that he grew up in. I don't know how he won. Eighteen medals training in that pool, but he he must be the mental. He's the mental god because I was training there. I go, I'm depressed in here. I I don't know how it get me in.

• 46:40Rich Roll?

  But then when you go to a meet, it's all gravy, right? Because you're so it's like it's like Bud's training for Navy SEALs, right?

• 46:46Speaker 01

  I think there's books on on like lifting and training and like um Dumpy facilities all around the world and how people um have have done well doing that, but I like to train in in sunshine and nicer areas.

• 47:00Rich Roll?

  Well, I don't think it's speaking out of school to just say like, you know, Michael went through a lot and that was a It was a moment in his life where he wasn't sure what he wanted to do and he ended up, obviously, you know, the story is well told. He sorted it all out. Um, and you know what happened in the wake of that is pretty remarkable, but for you, I mean, I would imagine you went there like, I'm gonna really dial in. And he's like distracted and not sure he wants to be swimming. That's not an ideal situation for you to like take your game to the next level.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then he he moved out to Zona. They love the sunshine. Who would have thought? And I'm out here and What I I saw Michael full circle, just make a hell of a turnaround. We end up Training again at altitude together Three times last year and and he went sober for two years and I saw. One of the greatest turnarounds I've ever seen from a friend and companion. He was a lot more loving and a better leader in general. In 2012, I didn't, I knew him, we were friendly, but he wasn't that, he wasn't as friendly with everyone. In 2016, he was the best captain you could have asked for. And you saw that.

• 48:10Rich Roll?

  It seemed like he wanted to be there, you know, whatever he needed to resolve emotionally, mentally, spiritually, it seemed like he had grappled with that and had like come to some peace and was there because he wanted to be there. It seemed like in, in London, he didn't, he wasn't sure he really wanted to even be doing it, right?

• 48:30Speaker 01

  You nailed it. I mean, that's exactly right. He, he, he wasn't doing things right. And I don't think he was necessarily that happy in London, but Rio, he was ecstatic to be there and be a part of the team.

• 48:41Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Yeah, it's, it's inspiring to see that arc, you know? I mean, it was like this whole thing when he went to rehab, but then he like came back and there was like a clarity to him. And suddenly he just looked like, just from somebody who just watched from afar, see him return to swimming, and then he got like super fit, like he was more cut than you'd ever seen him. And you're like, oh my God, like he's gonna unleash. Yeah, like I've never seen him look like that before. I'd never seen that kind of focus and intensity. And it was because he had like, you know, reconciled whatever he needed to reconcile and was there for the right reason.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was a force to be reckoned with. I also knew when I was at altitude and I, he, he's one of the fiercest competitors in the world. He hates, he hates to lose. And I, Chase and I were sitting there getting ready for practice and who opens his mouth? Chad Lacroix, the South African, starts chirping to the media about Phelps can't swim this, Phelps can't swim that. Michael comes in fired up to practice. I go, if I, I will throw, I mean, I didn't throw down, but I would throw down a lot of money to say that this guy is not going to lose. Because when, when competitors start opening up your mouth against him, he will never forget it.

• 49:53Rich Roll?

  The guy's been in Olympia for 24 years. And if there's one thing you should know about him is if you talk smack about him, that's going to come back around and bitch slap you. Like I can't believe like anybody would do that.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  You're just fueling him. You're just fueling him to train harder and beat you.

• 50:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's amazing. What was it? You know, what else, you know, might people not like understand about Michael? Just from, I mean, you've known him forever, living with him in Baltimore or whatever. Like, you know, what is it? What is an aspect of Michael Phelps, either at the pool or outside of the pool that, you know, maybe people, you wish people could understand, but maybe don't?

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's, it's been hard. He's been a star since he was 15, you know? And if you do, you do know him, he's a loving guy. He, he treats his friends and family as good as anyone I know. But it's just by living with him and being one of the greatest of all time, I can see how hard it is when you go to Whole Foods or anywhere else and you always got to be on top of people taking pictures and you might get out of a really hard practice that you wanted to do well in. I'm sure you know, like, you can be in a bad mood. If you're training for an Ironman, you had a horrible day of training, and imagine someone coming up and asking for pictures, autographs, do a video, do this. That, that might not, he

• 51:14Speaker 01

  might not come off as the nicest person ever when you're in a bad mood. But he is a good friend, good person, and I've seen a hell of a turnaround from that guy.

• 51:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, that's the situation he's been in his entire life. Like, he doesn't really know anything other than that. And to know, like, when he goes out into the world, that when people roll up on him, yeah, that's going to be their one impression of him. And if he's not totally, you know?

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Can't be on 24/7. But he's, he, yeah, that's...

• 51:47Rich Roll?

  So you, alright, so you, so you bust a move out of, out of Baltimore and then come back, you come out here, right? And so what was the kind of acclimating to living in Los Angeles and training at USC like?

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Well, I always wanted, like Halloween and stuff, I wanted to be a California surfer kid. So I knew I'd be out in California and I always, I, one of the coaches... It was actually a toss up between USC and Florida and because Janet swam at USC for a little. I, I didn't end up with Salo, but I always wanted to be out here at some point in my career. And um, after things were working out in Baltimore, I emailed Dave and Urbanchek was out here and I said, what do you guys think? Would you be willing to go all in and, and try and chase some medals down in Rio? I moved out here with, with my cousin in Manhattan Beach and I fell in love with California since I don't think I could live anywhere else. This is a spot for me.

• 52:42Rich Roll?

  Uh, you're like, yeah, but you're such a diehard Chicago. All the people in Chicago are gonna get pissed.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  I, I, everyone's in Chicago. I'll, I'll go summertime Chicago, but I, I, the winter is tough for me if I'm swimming and competing.

• 52:54Rich Roll?

  And how much of that training is with Urbanchek?

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Last year it was a lot with Urbanchek. Um, just, he had a classic style that, um, everyone doubted me to make the 400 free because I had a bad 400 free for two years and I wanted to prove to myself and prove to everyone else that I could um, make the 400 free again. So he, he's trained, I don't know, 25 gold medalist. He's a, he's a goat as far as coaching goes and um, he helped me go the fastest textile suit 400 free out of any American. So we, we pushed it the last year and a half training for that 400.

• 53:32Rich Roll?

  That's cool. Yeah, I, I, I love that guy. I think he's one of the greatest from coaches of all time. Um, I met him, uh, I met him when I was a senior in high school. I went on a recruiting trip to Michigan. So for people that are listening, John Urbanchek, legendary swim coach. I met him when he was head coach of the University of Michigan. I went on a recruiting trip there and, and I, of all the coaches that I've met, he was by far my favorite. And then I like, after I graduated high school, I made the, there was, there used to be this meet called the National Sports Festival, which was like a mini Olympics just in the United States. And you'd have east, west, north and south, and you'd come together and have this meet. And he was my coach at that. Meet and I just, I just think he, I don't know, there was something about that guy. He's amazing, right?

• 54:17Speaker 01

  But he brings the best out of you without, with that, in, in a funny humorous way. Even if you have a bad workout, but he's been to nine Olympics, he's coached Tom Dolan. He helped with Michael in, in 08 when he won eight golds. He's just a legend. Um, and he still comes on deck. He's what? He's, he's in his eighties.

• 54:36Rich Roll?

  Is he, I mean, he's incredibly fit. He was always like super fit.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  It's a joke that he, he's been retired since like 2000, but he's on deck with me still to this day for three times a week.

• 54:48Rich Roll?

  All right. And, and just for context, all right, so I met him. It was 1985, so that's like four years before you were born, right? And I used to throw kickboards at Tom Dolan's head when he, when I was like a senior in high school and he was like eight years old, right? So that's how much older I am than you, but to make the point of how, like how long John or Banscheck has been a force in, in Olympic swimming and collegiate swimming. Amazing, right?

• 55:13Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 55:14Rich Roll?

  And he's still on deck, like.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Still on deck, wearing board shorts, sandals and a tee shirt, drinking six espresso shots at 5am and then giving you seven grand.

• 55:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Every single practice. So he's doing this, he'll pull out old workouts from Michigan and goes, these are what the boys did. Let's see if you can beat it.

• 55:32Rich Roll?

  So this is a question that, that Michael Gervais would ask you, but I'm going to ask it. I, I'm stealing this question from him. Do you think that you're, is your, is your motivation, your competitiveness or your drive, is that motivated internally? Like because you want to be the best version of yourself or do you need that external competition? Like, are you motivated by what, are you impacted by what other people are doing? Like what's the driver?

• 56:03Speaker 01

  I, I think I'd have to go with, uh, I've always had an internal drive as far as competing and wanting to be the best I can be. And, and whatever I've done, especially athletics, um, no matter what sport I've, I've done, I've had an internal drive to want to be the best on the team. To want to be a leader and want to be a captain. So I would have to go with internal.

• 56:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Swimming is, seems like the kind of sport that attracts that kind of mindset because it is, I mean, it's a team sport, but it really is an individual.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know the grind, you're four hours by, I mean, you're with teammates, training, but you're at some, some practices, it could be a 3K for time and it's you and yourself internally, thinking about what you want to do in this sport and, and how you want to make yourself better, fitter, faster and stronger.

• 56:54Rich Roll?

  Right. So 2016 Olympics.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Joyride.

• 56:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so, once again, the gauntlet of the Olympic trials, you make the, you make the team in the 200 free and uh,

• 57:06Speaker 01

  400 free.

• 57:08Rich Roll?

  And the 400.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  And four by two relay, uh huh. Yeah, I, I knew, I, I, I, yeah, I know I mentioned hard work, but I, I took it to an extreme level last year and I think a lot of the coaches that I worked with will back me on that, um, both out of the pool and in the pool. And I had so much confidence, no matter what, as long as I stayed healthy, I knew I was going to make the team and whatever I was swimming. So, um, Rio or 2016 went exactly according to plan. Granted, there were ups and downs, but when I went into trials, I was never more confident to compete at a meet in my life.

• 57:47Rich Roll?

  Hmm. When I was talking to Jack Roach, he said, you know, Conor, of all the people that I know, like he just is committed to constantly improving and growing and expanding and like making, you know, better choices for himself, you know, and as you kind of get into this, you know, elite realm where you live and you do have all these opportunities and distractions, it becomes more important for you to learn how to like flex that muscle, whether it's like getting out of a situation in Baltimore that's not serving your swimming or knowing when, you know, finally that moment's going to come and you're like, maybe I shouldn't go to the Grammys.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, there were no awards going on last year.

• 58:28Rich Roll?

  So what, what did you dial up last year to like, take it to that next level? Was it nutrition? Was it just mindset? Was it like just training volume or?

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had nutrition coaches like, like you, I've followed, but I've had nutrition coaches that I would just, how can I get, how can I recover quicker so I can bring it again and, and beat all these guys and work out the second practice? So I had nutrition, but then.

• 58:54Rich Roll?

  So what did that look like specifically?

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Just very clean, very clean eating.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Oats, fruits, a lot of like healthy, clean vegan protein shakes, salads. I didn't go completely vegan, but I didn't eat red meat at all last year. I haven't eaten it really. And fish, veggies, probably six meals a day, every day, but very clean. And I felt the benefits of it.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Training day in and day out, recovery, everything.

• 59:27Rich Roll?

  There's not that many, from my observa-, well, this is dated because it's based on my experience, but I'm interested in what it's like now in terms of how dialed in most swimmers are on their nutrition. Because I was at the, I was at the Olympic Training Center. I saw the food that they're feeding people there and I watched what the swimmers were eating. And I was like, there's a lot of work that needs to be done here, you know?

• 59:50Speaker 01

  There is. There's a, there's a lot of work and I think a lot of people still, when they do, when they know, when they do learn, like you and I have learned, I've followed Jack Roach, whenever we're at meets, we're eating at Whole Foods every single day, twice a day, eating clean, recovering right. But I think it's made big strides since you were swimming, but it still has a long way to go.

• 1:00:15Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, it's tough when, the thing about swimming is there's, you know, dabbled in a bunch of different sports, but like of anything that I've ever like done, swimming makes you, spikes your appetite more than anything.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  You're hungry all the time when you're training twice a day.

• 1:00:32Rich Roll?

  So you're so hungry that you just want calories. So you become indiscriminate about where those calories are coming from.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  And you don't learn anything like that in high school. You're just like, go to Dunkin' Donuts, go do, you know, just get, oh, I can eat 8,000 calories. So let's eat everything and anything.

• 1:00:47Rich Roll?

  Michael Phelps did it, the Phelps diet, look what happened to him. So I'll just eat it that way.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  That's not true. I live with him. He does not eat that. He was eating at Whole Foods with me. That calorie count is out of control.

• 1:00:57Rich Roll?

  Well, I think that wasn't that. That was a story when he was like living in his dorm room at Michigan, like before the before Beijing, right? So I'm sure he was like

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  He was very young, so he I'm sure he could eat like that. But um yeah, so nutrition was a big thing. But um like you said, I think the biggest thing I had to do was sacrifice and that was sacrificing, going to fun events. I was training twice a day. I was in the mountains for for 90 days. So I had to sacrifice a lot of friendships, a lot of fun events. Um but I had that end goal in mind and I had the support staff from the cousins I lived with, the family that have been there since day one. But um what a lot of people don't know is what you have to sacrifice to make that own big team. And and it was a a drooling and and tough year of training for me. But it paid off dividends in real

• 1:01:50Rich Roll?

  You gotta you gotta live like a monk, right?

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like a Sherpa there.

• 1:01:54Rich Roll?

  So are you gonna do that again?

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  This year I will go up for a 30 day camp.

• 1:02:02Rich Roll?

  In Colorado Springs.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  In Colorado Springs. I love going up there. Just um

• 1:02:05Rich Roll?

  There's nothing else to do.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  You just get away from everything. You just get to train, eat right, sleep right and be healthy. Um and that's stuff I love to do.

• 1:02:15Rich Roll?

  Right. You can do that here, too.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  I do love doing that here. I will. Yeah, I do. Uh I do live healthy and and eat clean and work out here all the time. But um I don't think I have to do that. That was a little extreme.

• 1:02:35Rich Roll?

  So is Janet Evans still a part of your like she she it seems like she played a huge part in changing your life, right? And she, you know, she lives in Southern California, right? Do you still?

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's pushing hard right now for LA 2024. So I'm hoping uh the Olympics, I won't be competing, but uh I have one more in meet Tokyo, but I'm trying to help her in any way I can uh bring the Olympics back to the States and we're still very friendly.

• 1:03:01Rich Roll?

  Right. And family. Family's a big part of your success equation, right?

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:06Rich Roll?

  Seems like you have really supportive siblings and parents.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Siblings, parents, cousins, um friends. They've been at every big meet uh you can think of from Olympic trials, traveling all the way to Rio when they didn't even know if it'd be safe or not. So uh the the support I've had is I think as good as anyone could ask for.

• 1:03:28Rich Roll?

  And what's that like having a twin brother?

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Uh he he just left. He was here for the weekend.

• 1:03:33Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  It's awesome. Actually, I was in Sun Life the other day and they're like, you're not twins. Uh and we were messing with them, saying, yes, we are. No, no, we're not. But uh a lot of people can see when when me and my three other brothers get together, I'll support. We look alike, but my twin were fraternal. Um.

• 1:03:49Rich Roll?

  Right. It's not identical.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Not identical, but we're we have similar mannerisms and uh he he um loves to work out and stay fit. So

• 1:03:59Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  We get along pretty well.

• 1:04:00Rich Roll?

  So he so he trains Chance the Rapper and goes on tour with those guys, right? So it's not weird like, oh, you're the you're the Olympic swimmers getting all the attention. Like that could be, I could see how that could go sideways.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no. Um he's he's he's done very well. He's now training at a gym called The Dog Pound in New York City.

• 1:04:20Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah, I know that. I know. That's where my friend Brendan Fraser goes there when he's in New York. That's where Hugh Jackman trains.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Exactly. I I was I was actually when I lived in Baltimore, I would go lift and work out with those guys at 5:30 a.m. in this tiny gym with Kirk, who who started The Dog Pound. And now it's like the hottest gym in the world. What they've done in four years is. Is out of control. So it's cool that my twin gets to work out or, or train their, uh, train clients and then he'll go back on tour with Chance and them.

• 1:04:50Rich Roll?

  So he lives in New York City?

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  He lives in New York City.

• 1:04:53Rich Roll?

  That's cool. Yeah. Well, next time I go to New York, I'm going to New York soon.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  I'll get, I'll have them take you through the wringer and the dog pound.

• 1:05:00Rich Roll?

  I'm scared to go to the dog pound. Like I just think of like.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Come out alive.

• 1:05:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Like Hugh Jackman train, you know, that's where he becomes Wolverine, right? That's where he goes and.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  He's, he's an animal in the weight room, but you can handle it. You've done five Ironmans and five in a week.

• 1:05:14Rich Roll?

  I'm just like a skinny runner. It's a different thing, you know?

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  It's a different animal.

• 1:05:19Rich Roll?

  Um, that's cool. And the whole like, I know you're like a sports fanatic, right? But that like runs deep with your family. Like your great, your grandfather, like involved with the Cubs and.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:29Rich Roll?

  Going way back.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I, I, our grandfather, um, worked for the Tribune and ran the Cubs for many years. So I was, I got to be around. They weren't that good for a lot of the time I was growing up, but I got to be around the, uh, the Cubs players and in the dugout when I was a boy and, um, he was, he was amazing at taking us to all, all the Cubs games, home and away. Um, and to see them win it after a hundred and 10 years. I had, I flew to Cleveland. Uh, my brothers drove. I got to fly and they won game seven. We were all. In a huddle, like going nuts, uh, in Cleveland when they won. So, um, that was, that was a fun year. We've. We've traveled to Blackhawks, Stanley Cup games. You can look around.

• 1:06:14Rich Roll?

  I'm looking around the room. It's like Blackhawks. Yeah. You got like.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Cubs.

• 1:06:18Rich Roll?

  A Dwyer Cubs jersey.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Bears. Yeah. I've thrown out the first pitch, sang the seventh inning stretch at Wrigley Field. That was a bucket list thing as a boy.

• 1:06:27Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  I sang the stretch, stretch 40 times a year as a little kid when I was at games. And then after 2012, I got to sing it in front of 42,000.

• 1:06:36Rich Roll?

  That's crazy.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:37Rich Roll?

  It's amazing, right? Like, does that just, like, what do you make of that? When you act like, when you're in your quiet moment or you're like going to sleep and you're like. Wow, like, this is my life.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  The thing, yeah, things worked out well and things could be a lot worse. I, I wake up at 5:30 and, and look at the ocean and get my mind right on how I'm, how I'm gonna be a better person today. And, um, but when, when stuff like that happens and I get to sing the seventh inning stretch, it, all I can think about is like, this, this is a dream come true and this almost isn't real life. Like, how am I standing here getting to take pictures at, at Chicago events of things I was going to as a kid, asking to take pictures of Cubs players and now they're, they want to take a picture with me. I, I can't even really wrap my head around it.

• 1:07:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's amazing, right? And so what do you think?

• 1:07:33Rich Roll?

  Like, what do you, like, I'm trying to get behind that. Like, do you, does he, do you feel like, yeah, man, I worked for it. I earned it. Or like, this is some sort of pre, predestined thing? Or are you just like, how do you think about it?

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  I, I think if anyone would have seen the work I, I've put in through, through high school and, and how hard I work day in and day out in practices, they would say I've earned it. I, I put in, I put in Navy SEAL like training at Florida as far as seven hours a day, um, and, and while doing school, getting a degree. So I sacrificed a lot of fun things I'm growing up to accomplish, um, my dreams at winning NC's and making Olympic trials, but it got to pay off as far as getting to do, uh, singing the seventh inning stretch. But I did have to, uh, have to take some fun things off and, and not enjoy those.

• 1:08:31Rich Roll?

  What is your, like, message to young athletes out there? Do you go and talk to young kids or do clinics or talk to high school kids?

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do like to go to clinics and, and just tell my story about how I was sitting there on the bench at, and Lake Forest Swim Club, listening to an Olympian. And, um, at no point did I really, uh, think it would be possible to be an Olympian. But I think telling my story is, as far as not getting recruited out of, out of high school, that anything can happen if you're willing to work hard and, um, outwork the people next you have, listen to your coaches. Um, that was something that's helped me. So much in my career, just listening to my coaches and having faith in them. I think if you don't have faith in the person that's telling you what to do, then you should probably

• 1:09:17Rich Roll?

  You had good coaches though.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  I had the best. I've, I've worked with Salo or Bancheck, Bowman, Troy, uh, Jack Roach. I'm probably missing a few, but all of them have been with the US staff for over 10 years. Been lucky to work with all of them.

• 1:09:34Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. What is it, uh, what is it about Jack Roach that keeps you coming back to him?

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  That guy's a saint. Um, we just, we just have good vibes towards each other. I don't know, ever since we've run into each other on the US national team, um, we, we eat meals together at every meet. We, we do trips. He loves surfing. He loves outdoors. Um, he likes healthy eating. We just, uh, run well together. He helped me a lot last year. He probably flew out to California once every two meets and would, would help coach me one-on-one.

• 1:10:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there were some Instagram posts that you were throwing up where it looked like he, it was just you and him, like before the Olympics, doing one-on-one work at like some random pool at a hotel.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, this was a week and a half before Olympic trials. I was like, Jack, I know I've put in the work, but I am, I wouldn't say freaking out. I'm, I'm a little nervous. I could use you out here just to keep my mind at ease and rest. I don't love being like, uh, alone, not being around my coaches before going into really big competition. So Jack came out here and kind of put me at ease, like, all right, Conor, settle down. We're gonna be okay. We went and swam in a beautiful pool right on the ocean, uh, for a week and a half before trials. And that really, I owe a lot to him getting my mind right before trials. Cause I was like, it's just a nerve-wracking event to go into. If you slip up, you're, you're done.

• 1:10:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, wow. And, uh, and so going into like trying to, you're now like in the very early stages of getting ready to like wrap your head around preparing for Tokyo. And we're in this like three and a half year period where no one cares about swimming.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:11:12Rich Roll?

  Like the, the sheen, all the excitement of, of, you know, Rio is starting to fade into people's rearview and, you know, memories. And now they'll be this sort of, well, it's kind of good for you because you can focus, right?

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:27Rich Roll?

  Um, before like the world turns its attention on swimming again, which is sort of the cursing and the blessing of, of, of Olympic swimming. But, you know, entering into this next phase, like,

• 1:11:39Rich Roll?

  And taking this like sort of the next step in this evolution, this growth curve of like always trying to be better and do better and learn more. Are there things you're going to try that you haven't tried before? Is there a different approach? Like, how do you, how do you like preparing for a third Olympiad? Like, how do you deal with burnout and, and keeping it fresh and interesting and, and still trying to push yourself to, you know, new heights of performance?

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is key, having to keep it fresh as far as this water swimming. And I think I've done a great job of, of not just being a swimmer, but being an athlete and an outdoorsman. I, I love, I love to swim, but I love to surf. I would love to go on a bike or a 10 mile run with you. I'm not afraid to do any sort of workout. And I think that's helped me throughout my career, just mixing it up outside the pool. But I'm, I'm focusing really on stuff, the 200 free, the 100 free and 200 IM. So it, I wanted to make that 400, but I had, I think it hurt me a little bit, swimming the 200, because you swim two fours and then I swim two twos the following day and then a finals two. So I raced five times pedal

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  to the metal within two and a half days at the Olympics. I barely slept, could barely feel my body after two days. I was so beat up. So I kind of want to try going into Olympic trials and Olympics fresh, going into 200 free, because training for 400, you gotta kind of train like a miler. I'm racing a lot of those guys that are training even more than I am. And 200, you can go against guys that are training for 100. So I'm trying to just focus on my best event, which I think is the 200 free. And I think it'll help me a lot in 100 free and making a relay and helping those guys out.

• 1:13:24Rich Roll?

  And the 200 IM?

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  And the 200 IM.

• 1:13:26Rich Roll?

  That's the other like sneaky thing about you. It's like you're this unbelievable IM'er, but because of Lochte and Phelps, no one, no one knows that.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  Those damn guys, I keep getting third. Yeah, I've been the third best IM'er for a long time, but I mean, who knows what those guys are doing? Uh, if they'll be back, but I think I can make a 200 IM, uh, team.

• 1:13:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So, uh, that's awesome, man. That's cool. And, and in terms of like the actual like pool training or sort of strength training, are you making tweaks and changes there? Like, does that, do you start doing less volume and more intensity? Or like, how does that look as you get older and you know, you sort of, uh, are trying to continue to evolve?

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Salo does a very good job at keeping it fresh. He's like a new innovative coach that, um, um, that, that keeps it fun and fresh, different sort of practices. There's always like loud music going on at USC. Good, good people to train with there and now Locky's out here. And as far as gym wise, I, um, I train out here with like Nick Curson, who trains a lot of MMA guys, just fast, fast twitch, um, things that are, he, he's, he'll push you to the limits, but I think it's helping a lot in, um, my fast twitch muscles that,

• 1:14:42Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  I can go endurance like you, but I need help for the hundred free to get those fast twitch muscles going.

• 1:14:47Rich Roll?

  You gotta activate that for sure. Is that out here in Manhattan Beach or is that downtown?

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  That's in Torrance. Um, and then I'll work in the gym at SC, um, doing, doing things I've consistently done. But I think, um, doing that sort of different style training is, has helped me out.

• 1:15:02Rich Roll?

  Right. And how does it work with, you know, as a professional athlete, you're a professional swimmer, you have sponsors and you have obligations with respect to that. Like, how does that all, like, that wasn't even like a thing when I was swimming, like that didn't even exist, except for maybe like two people.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Rich Roll?

  So now like, I'm sure you have to show up and do, you know, appearances and photo shoots and all kinds of stuff.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Next week for like three days.

• 1:15:25Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you, you gotta stay on top of both handling it business wise with your agent and yourself and, and not straying too far from training, which this year you can, you want to make money, do as many appearances you can, but when it gets time for the Olympic year, you may have to pass up on, uh, opportunities, money, sponsorship deals, depending on how much the company or, or, um, provider wants out of you. Um, if they want 10 appearances, are you willing to miss? 10 to 15 days of training, that's something you sit down with your coach and your agent and have to decide on.

• 1:16:02Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, because you got to pay the bills, man.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Rich Roll?

  It's like, and somebody wants to throw money at you, you know, it's hard to say no to that, but you got to like do what's in the best long-term interest of your career, right?

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you've seen people now that maybe have done too many sponsorships and too many events where it's hurt them and you can see it on Olympic trials. So you don't want to be that person to do too much and then it shows in your racing.

• 1:16:28Rich Roll?

  Right, for sure. I had Anthony Irvin on the podcast.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  He's the man. I love Tony.

• 1:16:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I want to, I want to get him back on after the Olympics. I had him on before, before Olympic trials, when he really didn't think he was going to make the team and, you know, it wasn't even in his mind, really. Well, at least according to him.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  No offense to Tony, I saw him. I didn't think he was going to make the team.

• 1:16:51Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was in a dark place, uh, March of 2016.

• 1:16:56Rich Roll?

  Because he was training here and it wasn't, wasn't working out, right? And so the, the, the decision to go to Charlotte was like a, was like a hail mary.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  Absolutely hail mary, right? And no one has a better feel for the water than that guy. He, I've never seen anything, his stroke technique is second to none. He's so fluent and it's one of the prettiest strokes I've ever seen, but he was in the worst place I've ever seen him in March.

• 1:17:25Rich Roll?

  Mentally.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  Mentally, almost physically, because he, he wasn't doing what he needed to do to train. If you would have told me in March that Anthony Irvin would have won the 53 gold medal, I would kick you in that ocean behind you. I'd say, get the hell out of here, Richard, kicked out. But I love Anthony. He's such a good mentor. His story is as good as it gets, you know?

• 1:17:44Rich Roll?

  It's insane.

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  The nine-year bender that he went on and...

• 1:17:48Rich Roll?

  Did you read his book?

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  I've read some of his book. I mean, I've, I've done camps with Tony. He'll, he'll tell me the dark stories. I've heard him.

• 1:17:55Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  So the turnaround that guy's...

• 1:17:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for him to pull it together, you know, to go out to Charlotte and get his act together and show up and do what he did is, is just, I mean, was just stunning. I mean, and to be there to witness that and for him to be captain of the team at the time, that had to be pretty cool.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  At 35, yeah. Yeah, we had some good old guys dominate. I'm hoping at 31, I can do all right.

• 1:18:19Rich Roll?

  I think you're going to do all right. Yeah, it was funny watching, watching that on television. Because the 50 free is where the biggest, buffest dudes tend to show up, right? And Anthony's a tall guy, like he's a big dude, but when you, you know, on television, they go lane by lane and you see each guy and you're just seeing these mountain, these dudes are just...

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  He weighs like 220.

• 1:18:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, exactly. And then you looked at, and then they show Anthony and he looks so skinny by comparison.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  That's why I say his stroke is just so damn good. He weighs like 175.

• 1:18:49Rich Roll?

  You're like, this guy's got no chance.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And his start sucks. His start sucks. You go...

• 1:18:54Rich Roll?

  Well, he finally pulled it together.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  Finally, yeah. His start cost him in London. All he needed is a good start and he's got the stroke to do it and the speed.

• 1:19:04Rich Roll?

  Well, that's what he got worked out in Charlotte, I think.

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:06Rich Roll?

  Which was cool, right? So hopefully, you know, he keeps going and you guys can be teammates.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 1:19:11Rich Roll?

  In Tokyo.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  I love that guy.

• 1:19:13Rich Roll?

  Are you involved in that LA 2024 campaign at all?

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  A little bit, yeah. I mean, they put together one hell of a plan and I, I think if they don't get it in LA 2024, they'll get it, um, the next one. I think they'll get one of the two. And we already have everything built out here, you know, from USC to UCLA, they can use the dorms. We have the stadium getting put in Inglewood, the stadium at the Coliseum. We have, we have beach right here for volleyball. There wouldn't really have to be, um, too much. It's, I think it's, we've got a great shot at bringing it back.

• 1:19:46Rich Roll?

  Be cool. I had, uh, I had Casey Wasserman on the podcast. He was kind of leading that charge and he was saying the same thing, like essentially everything's built, but they, they would be like redoing the pool at USC, I think, right?

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure. Yeah. I'm interested to see what they would do with the pool. Yeah. That's an oldie, oldie but goodie. They would need to build a, a hell of a stands, but they're ready to do it.

• 1:20:07Rich Roll?

  Cool. All right. Well, we gotta, we gotta wrap this up, um, in a little bit here, but, um, I always like to try to leave people with, you know, a little bit of, of, of inspiration, you know, some like actionable takeaways that people can like work into their own lives. And I, I think really, you know, my favorite part of your story, and I think what's so kind of cool and inspirational about it is the fact that you weren't just like a star from day one, that you were this guy who like literally wasn't getting recruited. You were like a very average high school swimmer who was able to flip that switch and, and become something very different. So. You know, what can you leave people with that they can sort of think about or implement

• 1:20:48Rich Roll?

  into their own lives to, you know, perhaps reframe how they think about themselves and the limits that we put on our, you know, what we think we're capable of achieving?

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there's just always more in the tank and you can never really dream too big. A lot of people would have thought my dream of making Olympics was too big. I wasn't good enough. I wasn't big enough. I wasn't fast enough, but I'm glad I was able to dream that big. So to just open up your mind and if you really do want it bad enough, you can achieve it through working hard enough.

• 1:21:20Rich Roll?

  All right, man. I love it.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:21:23Rich Roll?

  Thanks Conor.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me. That was awesome.

• 1:21:26Rich Roll?

  How you feel?

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Feel great.

• 1:21:27Rich Roll?

  Have you done a podcast before?

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  Never.

• 1:21:29Rich Roll?

  First podcast.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  First one.

• 1:21:31Rich Roll?

  Excellent, man. Well, hopefully more podcasts to come. Right on. All right, we're gonna go to Sun Life?

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  Let's go to Sun Life, daily hit, always.

• 1:21:39Rich Roll?

  If you're digging on Conor, the best way to connect with him is you can tap into his massive Instagram account, Conor J. Dwyer on Instagram. You don't have a, do you have a website too?

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  I don't have a website. I use just Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. So contact me there.

• 1:21:54Rich Roll?

  Conor J. Dwyer across the board on everything?

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 1:21:57Rich Roll?

  All right, man.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  Keep it easy, simple.

• 1:21:59Rich Roll?

  All right. Thanks, man. Great talking to you.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:22:01Rich Roll?

  Peace.

• 1:22:06Rich Roll?

  All right, we did it. Hope you guys dug that. If you're stoked on Conor Dwyer, you can check him out online at Conor J. Dwyer on both Instagram and Twitter. Give him a follow, give him a hey, hey, and let him know what you thought about the podcast. He actually invited me to do a little bit of training when I get back to Los Angeles, so I'm definitely gonna take him up on that. And maybe I'll bring you guys a little behind the scenes on YouTube or Instagram. So stay tuned for that. A quick note, glad you guys enjoyed last week's show with Kip and Keegan from Cowspiracy and now the new movie, What the Health. That podcast was super popular and I want to thank everybody who made a point of watching the film in the first four days because that raised a ton of money for Food

• 1:22:47Rich Roll?

  Not Bombs. I got so many nice messages from people who saw it, who enjoyed it. Who enjoyed seeing my little cameo, who shared the movie with their friends. And if you have not yet seen it, just a reminder, you can watch it and you can stream it by just going to whatthehealthfilm.com. So do that. If you would like to support this show and my work, there's a couple of simple ways to do that. You can share the podcast with your friends and on social media. Leave a review on iTunes if you haven't done that. So already, please make sure to click that subscribe button. That helps us out the most. And also, we have an Amazon banner ad at richroll.com, or you can just type in richroll.com/Amazon. Takes you to Amazon, buy whatever you are already going to buy, won't cost you anything

• 1:23:30Rich Roll?

  extra, but Amazon kicks us some commissions on that and it really does help float this boat. We also have a Patreon, so big love to everybody who has contributed financially to my work. I really, really appreciate that tremendously. For all your Plant Power merch and schwag needs, go to richroll.com. We've got signed copies of Finding Ultra, as well as The Plant Power Way. Do you guys have these books yet? If you don't, maybe check them out. We've got t-shirts, we've got tech tees, we've got sticker packs and all kinds of cool stuff. Mad love to everybody who supported the production of this week's podcast. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering and production, as well as help with the show notes. Jason is taking on a more expanded role in the podcast and I'm excited about that.

• 1:24:12Rich Roll?

  Sean Patterson for help on graphics and theme music by Analemma. Thanks for the love, you guys. I'm in New York City for the week. I'm stoked. I've got some cool stuff here that I'm going to do, that I'm going to be bringing to you guys soon. And until then, make it a great week. Peace. Plants.