Natalie Holloway's Secret To Getting A Shark Tank Deal & Bootstrapping to $20M, While Having 3 Kids (Bala Founder)

On this episode of Hot Smart Rich, Maggie Sellers sits down with Natalie Holloway, co-founder of ⁠Bala⁠, the brand that made fitness hot. Natalie built Bala into a $20M business with a Shark Tank deal from Mark Cuban, faced near bankruptcy, and navigated the rollercoaster of entrepreneurship—all while raising three kids under four. The conversation gets real as Natalie shares the hardest moments of scaling Bala, from the chaos of explosive growth during COVID to nearly losing the company. She breaks down what saved the business, why she prioritizes profit overgrowth, and how she made the tough call to lay off nearly her entire team while pregnant. Maggie and Natalie also dive into motherhood, ambition, and the reality of balancing it all—plus, Natalie shares what really happened with Bala’s Drunk Elephant drama, how she deals with copycats, and why she believes affiliate marketing is the future for brands. ⸻ 🔑 Key Takeaways You can build a $20M brand without raising big VC money. Bala’s success proves that profitability is more important than endless fundraising. Natalie and her husband bootstrapped their way to the top—then nearly lost it all. Scaling fast can break you. Bala blew up overnight after Shark Tank and COVID, but hypergrowth almost killed the business. Natalie shares the hard truth about layoffs, cash flow, and surviving the free fall. Motherhood and entrepreneurship? There’s no perfect balance. Natalie had to make brutal business decisions while pregnant. The real talk: founders don’t get maternity leave, and work-life balance is a myth. Copycats and competition will come—so stay ahead. Drunk Elephant launched a Bala-inspired product. Knockoffs are everywhere. The only way to win is to innovate faster than they can copy. The smartest founders are shifting from influencers to affiliates. Natalie shares why paying influencers big bucks is outdated and why affiliate marketing is the new power move for brands. Negotiate like a man. Women are still underpricing themselves in business. Natalie learned to ask for more, own her worth, and not settle for the first offer. Bala is just getting started. NYC fitness studio? More retail expansion? Natalie spills what’s next and why she’s betting big on IRL experiences and digital fitness. ⸻ This episode is sponsored by Frate Returns. Tell them HSR sent you and learn more here! ⸻ Items Mentioned in This Episode Bala — the original workout bangles. ⁠Shop here⁠ Form x Bala — the set. ⁠Shop here ⸻ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. Subscribe on YouTube ⸻ 💌 Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. Subscribe here ⸻ Follow Maggie here: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly? Or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 0:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Somebody asked me how I'd define myself, and I didn't know what to say. Because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others. Because identity is not a performance, it's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. Paradox intense and the new sweet chemistry by Prada.

• 1:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Hi, angels. Welcome back to another week of Hot, Smart, Rich, the podcast. I am so grateful that you're here. I have loved being home and getting to focus back on the business like 110%. I would be lying if I said that it was that level of focus when I'm away. It's not. It's like 80%. And being back in front of the camera, as uncomfortable as it is to get back, feels so good to talk to you guys. It is a crazy week. It's July 1st, Canada Day. It's July 4th. And I decided that after spending the week with Natalie in the Hamptons, the co-founder of Bala, activating with the brand, doing keynote speeches together at a female founder

• 2:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  offsite called The Legacy Circle, that I wanted to bring her episode back and do a rerun for the first time. Why? There are so many new faces here, so many people that have heard about the podcast in whatever which way and have decided to graciously give me an hour of their time. Natalie's episode was probably one of my favorites, although I had just gotten my surgery, so excuse my appearance, I'm a little swollen. I felt like what you'll hear in this episode is so authentic and so raw, and having recorded so many other podcasts since this one, it's

• 2:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  even more special. Natalie was so open and nothing was off the table. I had no idea if she was going to let me talk about the fact that I declined investing in her brand and I had gone through the diligence process. And as I've recorded with more and more people, that is not always the case. You have to send questions beforehand, you have to send the recording for approval, you have to make edits. And the more raw and authentic the guest allows you to be, the better the lessons for everybody. So I decided in this crazy week to bring back an episode. Natalie tells you exactly what it has taken to build Bala

• 3:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  to a $20 million brand, the impact on her personal life, being a mom, the actual things that they are doing to continue to build Bala, which is only getting bigger and better. And I hope that you enjoy it. I hope that it brings you the same learnings that it does for me every single time I listen to it. So without further ado, here is Natalie Holloway, the co-founder of Bala, and I can't wait to talk to you guys next week. Love you. Let's be honest, founders, returns are a nightmare for business. If you're scaling a Shopify brand, you already know the costs I'm talking about. Sky-high refund rates, constant return fraud, and rising shipping costs that eat into your margins. And that's

• 4:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  where freight comes in. Freight is a returns platform built exclusively for Shopify brands, already trusted by brands like Caraway and Monos to flip returns from a cost center into a growth lever. They're not just reducing returns, they're redesigning them completely.

• 4:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  With instant and one-click exchanges that increase LTV, AI-powered fraud detection that screens worn items before they ship, and peer-to-peer returns that eliminate unnecessary shipping trips, freight's making returns feel profitable. One brand cut refunds by 21%, saving $900,000. And the brands using freight retain more cash and convert more customers, period. So if you're ready to turn your returns into revenue, head to freight.com and tell them Hot Smart Rich sent you for an exclusive offer and white glove service. That's F-R-A-T-E.com and tell them Hot Smart Rich sent you.

• 5:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

• 5:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Third time's a charm.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 5:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Natalie Holloway, are you ready to get hot, smart, rich?

• 5:39Speaker 02

  I'm so ready.

• 5:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I'm so happy that you're here because you are such a girl's girl, and I'm going to go into why later on in this episode. But you just had your third baby. You are the founder of Bala, which I'm wearing. This is my first workout since my breast augmentation, which don't tell my doctor. And you're here five weeks after having a baby. So thank you so much for being here, first of all.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me. It's crazy to be out in the world a little bit.

• 6:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is this your first thing back since mat leave?

• 6:06Speaker 02

  I've like left the house a couple of times, going to the park, things like that. But probably my first like work thing.

• 6:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh my, I'm so honored. What made you want to do it?

• 6:16Speaker 02

  I was like, I want to be on your podcast. It's a great opportunity. So that was an easy yes. And my schedule is actually weirdly like completely clear since it is mat leave technically.

• 6:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  So I have, you know, some free time.

• 6:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But do you feel like you ever really get a mat leave when you're the founder of a company?

• 6:34Speaker 02

  No, you don't. I mean, you do in the sense that I am downshifting and like doing a couple of months without calls. But it's my ba- it's like my fourth

• 6:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's your first baby.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  It's your first baby. Yeah, it's my first baby. So I have to check in on it. But I'm also, you know, my partner is my husband. So he's like doing all of the work and kind of just like keeping me updated. So it's just like a founder's version of a mat leave.

• 6:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I have such ADHD that you just said three things. I was like, we need to touch on all of those, but we're gonna start by taking it back a second. So I just let's like, I love to start podcasts just so chill, just like get easy and get going.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is your day in a life typically as a founder and then versus being a mom now? Like in your mat leave, what is your day in life like?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Oh, like right now?

• 7:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Well, okay, let's see. Three ki- okay, so four year old, two year old, zero year old. And so my day right now is like honestly mostly like breastfeeding and pumping all day long. That's like

• 7:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love the vulnerability, yes.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  I mean, it is. It's like you literally are like breastfeeding and pumping like eight hours a day. When you add it all up. So that's like the main priority. And then also like trying to get in time with the four year old and the two year old. Making them feel not neglected or anything like that. And then ball is like less of a priority right now. So of course I'm still like, I'm probably like emailing an hour a day or something, or doing an occasional, um, not a call actually. So certainly some emails.

• 8:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  You know?

• 8:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's so amazing to have you on because one of the requests that I've gotten from our community so far, because people have been loving it. And I'm so honored to hear this is like the first thing you wanted to do to come back. But people really want mom stories and actually personally, like why I started this podcast is because like I want to learn. And I don't want to come across as the expert and I'm thirty two, I'm with the person I'm going to be with forever. And you know, we are talking about family planning and it is fucking terrifying to think about having a baby and deprioritizing my career and choosing family over that. But it's also like the thing I know is like the right decision, but even taking yourself back

• 8:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  five years ago before you had your first child, like was that a hard decision for you to come to terms with?

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I've actually heard that a lot from people like they're so scared that they won't have time for the business and all of that, but. I mean, I think, yes, it was definitely scary. And with my first kid, I was like in very much like ball of building mode. So I probably like worked a lot through it, but now my priorities have shifted a little bit. And I would say, don't be scared of it because all it's just gonna make you way more efficient. I'm sure you've heard that like moms are the most efficient people ever because you you know what to say no to. So it's like already you're like so good at prioritizing things. And then you just create systems, which is how you build a good business anyway. Like you create systems in your own life to make it all work because you have all of a sudden you have

• 9:35Speaker 02

  a lot to do. And then outsourcing, like you will just outsource a lot of stuff.

• 9:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you mean like outsource personal life or your business life more?

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Honestly, both because I'm like, if I have to like drive to the office to do some sort of meeting, like, is there any way I could outsource that? You know, an errand maybe is a good example. You know, is there like some sort of ball of errand I have to go to? Like, do I have to? Can I outsource that? If you can, you should because now it's like, two hours out of my life is better spent like maybe paying somebody to do it. So I could spend time with my kids. And I think that's like, something that definitely shifts as a mom.

• 10:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you feel like you're there for all of the major moments for your kids? Or are there sacrifices that you have to make when you're like, I actually do need to prioritize the business right now over like, being there 24/7 if you were a stay at home mom?

• 10:23Speaker 02

  What's crazy about building your own business is you're really building the freedom. So I actually don't have to miss anything. If anything, I can go to more, I can like, block off my schedule any day and be like, I'm going to go on that field trip.

• 10:35Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Whereas like, maybe if I worked for somebody else, I couldn't.

• 10:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  So that's like what right now, like in your building era, like, it's like, that's what should inspire you because you're you're able to say no to what you want, and build the freedom in your schedule. So I don't really have to miss anything. Of course, I'm not like, staying at home all day long, stay at home mom style, but I can make my schedule, you know, how I want it.

• 10:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  So that's there's freedom there for sure.

• 11:01Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So right now, you have three kids all under the age of four. Even saying that out loud is terrifying.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  It's nuts.

• 11:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, so you said that you, when you had your first kid, you were in like Bala building mode. What year of Bala are you in right now?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Well, it's our sixth year.

• 11:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  So it's just like, at this point, we're a little bit more established. Like, we have our team, we have our systems created. We're more like, a little bit of a well-oiled machine.

• 11:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yep.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  And I'm not doing everything like I once was.

• 11:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  And I would say, when my son was born, I was doing everything. I probably was like, answering customer service emails, shipping product, like, literally everything.

• 11:39Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  So there was no slowing down. I probably just did it with like, a baby in my carrier, you know, at all times. But now I'm able to, there's just like, it's more of a well-oiled machine.

• 11:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah. And do you feel like now, you're in a place where you're doing the work that you actually enjoy more? Because you get to pick and choose that, and you've brought in like, a team that can almost do the work you didn't like better than you?

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Yes, definitely. Like, I can say, of course, there's always gonna be like grunt work and things you don't wanna do, like, spreadsheets or accounting, whatever that is for you. But I definitely get to do more of what I love.

• 12:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What do you love?

• 12:15Speaker 02

  I actually really love, I love things like this. I love panels. I love giving like, business advice. So I love all of that. On Bala, I love like, social media and marketing. My husband does all the products, but that's also exciting. There's like, there's a lot.

• 12:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So does he do like, product innovation?

• 12:35Speaker 02

  He's literally designed every product we have.

• 12:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh my gosh.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:39Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So was his background in product design?

• 12:41Speaker 02

  No, he was in advertising.

• 12:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But I think what's so interesting about the dynamic between motherhood and founder life is like, you did start the business with your partner, like, your romantic partner who's now your husband. You guys did start the business like, seven weeks into dating, right?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Yes. We started it like, super early, like, right into date, like, we just started dating, and that's when we quit our jobs and traveled, and went on this crazy trip and started the business.

• 13:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And then, fast forward seven years, like, the thing that I think is so interesting to look back on now is all of the learnings on like, a personal side and a business side. Like, what do you guys think that you've done really well as a teammate? And what do you guys look back on? You're like, oof, I wish that we had done that differently?

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Let's see. What we did... Really well is um at this stage that we didn't do it at the beginning. So that's maybe like a little bit of answer to your question, but at the beginning, we were kind of all in everything together, like in each other's business and categories and all that. And that really wasn't working, especially as a romantic partner. It's like, I don't need to be his boss. He doesn't need to be my boss. And so what we realized really works for us is establishing our own swim lane. So it's like, product is his. Like, he asked for my advice and feedback, but it's like, that's his, like, I'm not on product calls because that's his. And so we essentially, we divide and conquer the business. So it helps us, like, because we are in a relationship to

• 14:04Speaker 02

  have our own swim lanes, not be on it, like stepping on each other's toes. Like, we're kind of like the boss in our own areas. And then I think also, it really helps us like divide and conquer the business. So we're able to like, you know, do twice as many calls a day if we're not on the same calls, you know? So I think that's something that now we're doing right, and we didn't at the beginning.

• 14:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Something I really struggle with with that, though, is like, when I see a decision get made across the business that I don't agree with, or I think is like detrimental to the brand that we're building, I find it very hard to be like, well, that's not my swim lane. Like, I'm not going to go in there. How do you guys figure out how to have constructive conversations when you're like, oh, I really don't think that product's gonna work, or I don't like the colors that we're choosing, or the material doesn't make sense. And then same when he sees something you're doing on brand or marketing, and he's like, why did you say that or do that? Like, how do you guys handle those disagreements?

• 14:59Speaker 02

  So we definitely do that. I could think of like, three examples, like, this week that happened, where it's like, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have approved that.

• 15:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you say that to him?

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Both of us. But I think what we learned is instead of coming at it like, hey, why'd you do this? I wouldn't have done that, like aggressive. It's almost like therapy. It's like, if you come at it with kindness, you know, I feel like it's like an approachable conversation, and then you can like remedy the situation. But yeah, we've had many instances of that. I'm like, thinking of them, literally over the last few weeks of just like, little rifts, not fights, but like, hey, that's not how I would have done it. And then we have a constructive Conversation about it, but I think for the most part, it's like you have to trust the decision makers, you know, and then if it's like a big deal to you, then you can approach it.

• 15:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  But I agree. It's like, it's hard to let go of control.

• 15:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's so hard to let go of control, especially when it's like, it is your baby, right? And I think you are so tied to Bala as like the face of the brand. And I saw even, I think it was yesterday, you came online on Tik Tok and you were like, hey, drunk elephant, these are.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  I know. It's like the first time we've really like done that.

• 16:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I need to talk about this. So there was a video on Tik Tok where a girl was doing a unboxing of a package from drunk elephant.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And they tagged Bala in the comments being like, oh my God, my Bangles. And you came on and you were like, hey, those aren't ours, but they literally look exactly the same. You have dealt with this your entire career, like you guys pioneered an industry of like fashion, luxury meets at home fitness, and not even at home fitness, fitness. How do you deal with so many copycats?

• 16:35Speaker 02

  It's so frustrating and it's, it's even like more frustrating for Max, because like he literally like designed like the beam from his mind. And then he's like, you know, you go see a copy everywhere and by people like we've gifted and things like that. So it's like my, it's more frustrating for him. For me, I'm kind of like, you have to, that's just, that's the nature of it. Think about fashion, like fashion is copying from the runway. Like it's just part of it. And if anything, it just like inspires you to continue innovating. Because you can let it eat you alive, but it's like, what is that going to do? You just kind of have to keep innovating, but it is so frustrating. And people just don't know, like they may see the product and just think that person made it up.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  But it's like, we worked, you know, for seven years on these products. So the drunk elephant thing, we normally don't call people out because like there are thousands of scenarios that have happened to us. And it's disheartening because there's not much you can do about it. But the drunk elephant one we called out because we were getting tagged like crazy on Instagram, like people thinking we did a collab with them. And it's like, they know who we are. They know better. They know what they're doing.

• 17:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're in touch with their. Attorneys because for them it's like not like making an example of them, but they know what they're doing. They were trying to make it look like a balla and then they put their logo on it and it's not balla. So it's like, and everyone's tagging us in it. So we didn't do a collab with them. So we were like, let's start saying something.

• 18:01Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, I'm actually so happy that you did because I think that's what this place is supposed to be is like the real conversations of what happens. And this is a real thing that happens in business, like trademarking and patents and like all of the things that like your consumption or your consumer behavior and like their perception is actually reality. I remember when I first entered into entertainment, somebody was like, perception is reality. And if you have your customers tagging balla and it's not your brand, it's like you should be saying something. Were you afraid to put out that video?

• 18:33Speaker 02

  A little bit, but at this point, like we have not said something for so long that I was like, we have to like, we have to say something. This is like a brand that has the same customer base as us. These are our, you know, influencers tagging us and it's causing confusion. And they know better. That's the biggest thing. I'm like, they know better.

• 18:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why do you think that they would have done that though, instead of just doing a collab? Like how, like, how did you, how do you guys typically, like especially for a PR unboxing, like how would you guys price something like that normally?

• 19:01Speaker 02

  A lot of times we, we might've just gifted it. Literally, we might, we probably would have just gifted it.

• 19:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So instead of like sending a cease and desist, it's like, here's a gift for your PR.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so charging wholesale.

• 19:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  A lot of times we charge wholesale because you know, you have certain limitations of what you really can gift. So like wholesale is our strategy.

• 19:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So when you guys did your collab with Pucci, walk us through how that came to be and how it's been perceived so far in the market.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  So let's see, I mean, they reached out and they wanted to do a collab and this is probably like a year or a year and a half ago. Cause sometimes it takes forever. And um, we worked with their team on to match like the colors and like collaborate on that. And the photo shoot and all of that. And it came, you know, it's probably like, yeah, a year in the making. But we were really excited about this one because it's like, you know, very fashion forward brand, like Italian and chic. And I, we got a lot of really good response.

• 19:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you mean like press response or consumer like behavior purchasing response?

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Well, purchasing response, I think we sold out of two of the three products and um, but also. Just like consumer, it's like everyone I see now is like, oh my gosh, I saw Pucci. You know, almost like talk value response on social, of course, as well, media, all of that. But like more than that, like anecdotally, when I'm walking around and I see somebody I know, they're like, oh my gosh, I saw Pucci.

• 20:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  For sure.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  It was just like, it made, it made a splash. And that was, this was probably my favorite collab we've done. So it was, it was very exciting.

• 20:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So you pick favorite children? I'm just kidding.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  I know, right? That's bad. I don't yet.

• 20:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, favorite children of your collab, yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 20:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How did you guys, are you able to share how you structured the deal? Like, did you, can you share a little bit about that?

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say a lot of ours are like different structure. It really depends, like for free people, let's say if we're doing a collab with them, they're one of our big retailers, they'll just buy it at wholesale. And then we'll work back and forth on like what the design and the pantones will be. Um, but for a collab that we're like really all in on, which probably happens four times a year or something, um, like Pucci, it is actually for them, they bought at wholesale. So for the most part, buying at wholesale is like how it works. Sometimes it's like a rev share, but I would say 90% of our collabs, they just buy it wholesale. We work directly with the teams and it's structured differently. Like sometimes we split the photo shoot costs.

• 21:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's what I was gonna say, like marketing costs, yeah.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  Like it just depends on everyone's budgets, but for the most part, things are split.

• 21:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And do you feel like you've had a waterfall effect of like really cool brands now being in your DMs after Pucci being like, we want a collab?

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Somebody asked me how I define myself and I didn't know what to say because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others.

• 21:56Speaker 01

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• 22:53Speaker 03

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• 23:02Speaker 03

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• 23:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. I would say there's definitely some brands up in our DMs.

• 23:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can you share like the coolest brand that's in your DMs?

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Oh, God. I feel, oh, we had a like a funny, just like interesting one. Lisa Frank. I feel like that was not the coolest brand, but it's just like nostalgic. So I'll show you.

• 23:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  And I don't know, it has to be in Canada too. It's like literally when you were like 11.

• 23:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  A Lisa Frank backpack.

• 23:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I don't, okay, you have to show me after. We'll put it on the screen.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Nostalgia for me.

• 23:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And then have you guys ever collabed with creators?

• 23:42Speaker 02

  You know, oh, the one creator collab we have, but more, it's more of a brand. It's Form.

• 23:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, yeah.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Sammy Clark.

• 23:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  But it's through Form, so it's really a brand. But that would be like the Sammies would be the creators there.

• 23:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah. How did that one do?

• 23:55Speaker 02

  We have one potentially in the works, though.

• 23:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can you share any like secrets about it? Sneak peeks?

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Well, it's not like solidified, but it would be like in the heavier lifting category.

• 24:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, love that. How did the Sammies collab do?

• 24:08Speaker 02

  It's ongoing, so they, which is, this is honestly the best thing because instead of the Sammies, they could like go and get like the knockoff Bengals and all that stuff. But instead, they worked with us, like we have the form logo, the ball logo, we've collabed on, on in marketing and it's just an ongoing partnership. So they're, they just place orders with us and then they sell to their customers, like a retailer, which is nice because instead of just like copying us and going against the patent and stuff, they worked with us. So.

• 24:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And it's mutually beneficial because then you get access to these ravenous fans of form and the Sammies, which is a crazy community like they just have such an amazing loyal fan base. And I think that's what is so interesting about that type of a collab is you're able to tap into that creator economy without having to pay these crazy rates. I feel like I don't see you guys spending a ton of money on influencer marketing. Does that a lot of your budget go towards influencers or not really?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  No, not really. Huge like affiliate program and TikTok shop affiliate. But for the most part, and every now and then when we do a launch, like we'll do some paid creators, but it's not a huge budget.

• 25:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why do you think you guys have stayed away from influencer marketing?

• 25:19Speaker 02

  Well, we do it with like affiliate and stuff. So we still do.

• 25:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  I would say it's still a big part of the business, but we don't have like huge influencer budgets because of our affiliate program. So we're.

• 25:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Cause they work really well?

• 25:31Speaker 02

  They work really well. So the thing is like they'll, they, you know how it works, but it's like they, they do make money.

• 25:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  For sure.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  You know, it's like.

• 25:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, it's interesting because like I, I can use as an example, but these pants are basically the only things that I've fit into and I literally posted like one Instagram story and one email and linked them and I sold like eleven thousand dollars with these pants. And it's crazy.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  So you got like fifteen hundred bucks or something, right?

• 25:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Probably like if I add it up, right? And it's like, I feel like maybe my conversion is a little bit higher because I never really push products on people. I don't think that's like an every time I'm selling something and I don't think about selling, I'm just thinking about sharing what I actually love. And I think that's what's so great about affiliate marketing. But I do think that based on the stage of your brand, and I think you guys are like you said, a little bit further along, where like bringing in those bigger creators or like even a celebrity face. Like have you guys, like, why have you guys never brought in a celebrity face? Or done like a big splashy moment with like a huge celebrity that could just put you at a different level?

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question. I mean, we've, we have Maria Sharapova as an investor. So I would say that's like our, like, that's what we, I just, I don't know, the budgets are crazy, or you have to give away a percentage of your company and it's just not been

• 26:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  top of mind.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we've like, we've gotten almost into deals before, but I just think we're always looking at it on like, is there a return on investment? And there might not be.

• 26:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  You know, because of the budget is so crazy for that. And I've always been like more of a fan of like the micro strategy in general and just having like a lot of affiliates, micro, like you just said, like you sold eleven thousand dollars and you made fifteen hundred dollars from that or two thousand dollars, whatever you made. And that might be, that's like, that is an influencer budget. It's just like, hey, you get to, if this works, we both, you know, get paid from this.

• 27:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Totally. My crush before my boyfriend was Mark Cuban.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  I am, have you ever met him?

• 27:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Okay, I feel like you have to like meet him.

• 27:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It is my dream.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Throw it out there.

• 27:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Like, yeah, like I am manifesting having Mark Cuban on this podcast. And I know that when you went on Shark Tank, you got a deal from Maria Sharapova and Mark Cuban. What is working with Mark Cuban like?

• 27:44Speaker 02

  I mean, he, he's a cool dude for sure. He literally, I think he's a ma- very interesting because he's, like, if you email him, he'll email back like immediately.

• 27:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Should I just email him and be like, I have a boyfriend, but I used to have a crush on you? No, but I heard he's.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Say, come on my podcast. He might, honestly. Uh, he's like, he gives really good advice. He's like a conservative businessman and he like knows when thing, I'm about to email him after this about something, but.

• 28:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Tell him that he should come on my podcast.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  I'll be like, PS, I was on the heart, Mark Rich and he loves you. I mean, she loves you. Um, but yeah, no, he's a, he's a cool guy who's like a conservative businessman who has great advice. Okay, so.

• 28:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And does he push the product ever? Like, does he promote it?

• 28:25Speaker 02

  I think he's done like two stories.

• 28:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  But he's not really active on social.

• 28:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Which I love.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  But if I reached out, I'm sure he would.

• 28:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  For anything, like we, we like to reserve our favors. He went on a South by Southwest panel with us. That was a big deal.

• 28:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Huge.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  You know, his time is probably worth. Hundred thousand dollars an hour.

• 28:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, he's like a billionaire. So you guys have only raised from Maria Sharapova, Mark Cuban, and then you guys did a small insider round that I saw, Sidecar you did it on.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Have you guys raised any other money?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  No, and that was very small. That was like, yeah.

• 28:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How much money have you guys raised total?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Like nine hundred and fifty thousand.

• 29:01Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are you able to share how much you're doing in revenue or no?

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, this year, we're gonna do over twenty.

• 29:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Amazing.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I'll share that.

• 29:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love that you're so open. Can I tell you, like, that is what is so rare in this industry is like as, and this is what I wanted to bring up at the very beginning, like, you are such a girl's girl. Like, when you were nine months pregnant, you came to my event, and I was just like, I don't-

• 29:22Speaker 02

  That was probably the last thing I did before I had the baby.

• 29:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  This is, okay, so you heard it here first, the last thing she did before she was, yeah. I'm like, are you obsessed with me?

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Oh my god, that's so creepy of me.

• 29:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No, it just goes to show, like, you are such a girl's girl, and I think it is so hard to find in this industry. It's like, there is, I think, amongst female founders, there's a lot of sharing that goes on of like, how things are actually, what investors are like, but there's also a lot that I feel like people do gatekeep, and they do keep for themselves, and they're like, I was introduced this investor, but I'm not gonna introduce you because like, what if they invest over you? And it's like, what people don't remember is like, everybody loves a good deal. So if you introduce Mark Cuban to a good investment and you make him money, like, that only looks good on you. And I think like, that's what I've loved about you is just like, your openness, and you're willing to like, be there when it's not convenient, or when it's just like, not comfortable,

• 30:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  and also just like, share that you're gonna do over twenty million dollars of revenue with a nine hundred thousand dollar investment. Like, that's crazy. How did you get to that point?

• 30:26Speaker 02

  It's been a long road of up and down, and you know, but, um, we're, I mean, I would say, okay, like, snapshot is COVID. You kind of know our story.

• 30:35Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I know, like, I didn't know if you were gonna be willing on, to talk about it. Okay, let's talk about COVID, and then like, what happened after COVID.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  Okay, so it really was crazy because we started the, the brand as a side, a complete side hustle. We, we literally have on our vision board, like, ten units a day, like, wish we could sell ten units a day. That's nothing compared to now, and so, it was just a side project. So, anyway, we launched, but then the perfect storm of Shark Tank and COVID happened.

• 31:01Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yep.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Two years into the business, so that was, like- The year we literally went from two to 20 million, it's like out there, uh, the story, but two to 20 million. But then what happened is we were like, okay, we're doing two million with a couple of people on the team, which like my husband and myself, we need to like hire people. We need to like spend the money, you know, like get the website, do the photo shoots, like spend all the money, basically. And we were super profitable because of the lean team. So fitness was soaring, you know, all, all indicators were that like this was going to continue. And so I think the next year we had projected a growth year, like maybe 24 or 25 million.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  But what happened instead is it was a down year. And so we had hired 30 people on the team and we basically, after a few rounds of layoffs and this down year, it was the year that, you know, like Peloton was going down, like everyone knows fitness was going down that year, I think

• 31:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  At home fitness, because everyone was going back to the gym.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. And so we were not prepared for that. And when you're not VC backed, a down year of like even a couple million, like really impacts your cash flow. Like we were like, we need to like fire people like yesterday. So after a few rounds, we went all the way down to three people, my husband, myself and Brooke, who I'm sure you've met on our team, who's our CBO now. So literally went down to three people and it was like, okay, all of a sudden we had, we had to do everything. Like I had to do all of our wholesale business, which is like thousands of um wholesale retailers. And so it was a really dark time. We were like almost going to go out of business, like so, so close to going out of business. Um, but then, you know,

• 32:44Speaker 02

  over the last couple of years, we, that made us like really whipped us into shape and turned the business into a very profitable business. And instead of like valuing like growth, we valued profitability at every turn. And so it just like, it kind of changed the course of, of the business, but it was just crazy having to.

• 33:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Go through that.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And it's so crazy because I remember like when you were pitching me, I was like, everything in me wants to invest. But like, I was so early in my investing career. I was like, I have to remember that like, I'm going to be judged on like, my return and like, what is making good decisions? And I remember being like, it's so unfair that like, I had to say no strictly because you were dealt a card of like, explosive growth because of COVID at home fitness. And then it's like, without anybody ever knowing, it's like, everybody's going back to the gym. And it's like, how do you prepare for that? But I think what I have just respected so much about you and Max as like, a leadership team is the way you handled that. Because it was like, it wasn't ever an option to fail or close.

• 33:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It was like, you just had to do what you had to do, which as a girl's girl female is really hard when you're having to lay off a staff of like, 27 people. What was that like for you?

• 33:55Speaker 02

  It was horrible. I was like, friends with these people, you know? And then all of a sudden, it's like, and they don't, they didn't necessarily understand exactly why we, why.

• 34:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  They didn't know what was really truly behind the curtain, things you don't really share with employees. Like, we were like, three million, I think it was three million dollars in debt completely. And that was like, that was horrible.

• 34:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And did you have your son at that point?

• 34:16Speaker 02

  I had my son at that point. Actually, I was pregnant with my daughter too. So it was like, I was going through this pregnant and had to fire everyone and then basically do all of their jobs. Like, we had to split all of those people's jobs between us. And just like, we had like, almost like, um, a mantra of like, good is good enough. You know, like, it doesn't have to be perfect, doesn't have to be the best. Like, things are gonna slip through the cracks during this like, era. And that's okay, because this is what we have to do to save the business. And then now we like, paid off that debt and it's just, you know, it's a different business now. But at the time, it was like, very dark times.

• 34:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And now, I'm just like, so, it makes me honestly just so impressed with you, like, even more so than when you walked into my house. Because I knew a lot of the story, but obviously not down to like, what happened after we had been talking. So when you guys did your layoffs, you were basically doing everything. What was the turning point to you guys being like, we are going to right this ship and completely change the business to profitability?

• 35:14Speaker 02

  I mean, the turning point was like, like, I wanted to hold, the problem is, we could have like, let go of people like, six months earlier and not had such a like debt and things like that. But I was like, my heart, I couldn't like, let go of these people. I really, really cared about them. They were great at their jobs, all the, all the stuff. So, it really took Max and I back and forth. Like, finally, he's like, we like, we ha- we were going out of business like, now if we don't do this. And I had, had to do it. I mean, really, it was like, when we, we owed people, we didn't have anyone to back us, like, there's, we weren't gonna make payroll, like, we literally had to do it. And there was no other option. And so,

• 35:57Speaker 02

  I think it's just, it's, it was like, it was truly back to the beginning. Cause it was like, when we started, I was doing customer service and all of these things. And now we're back to that.

• 36:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you feel like your relationship with money and just like having gone from zero to two million to twenty million, back to like, having to do everything, changed a lot in terms of being like, much more frugal? Like, how do you think about money today? Both like, well, how do you think about money today as a founder?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  I mean, for the business, I think of it as, like what I said earlier with influencer marketing, like, a return on investment, because the old me, when we got ourselves in that situation, would be like, oh, our head of growth says we need to spend three hundred thousand dollars on a new website. I would say, why? Like, why can't we spend forty grand? Like, let's see what the options are here before we just go with what people, the experts say. Because that's what got us into trouble is like, you know, you're supposed to spend this amount of money. You know, you mentioned like, an influencer. It's like, maybe then, somebody would be like, pay fifty K for a post. And we might have done it because someone said, we should. But now I'm like,

• 37:01Speaker 02

  there has to be a return on everything, because that's how you make a super profitable business. And we have now. And so, definitely made me more frugal. And also just like, a look at everything across the business with an ROI.

• 37:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How do you think about your relationship with money personally, since that experience?

• 37:20Speaker 02

  Personally, oh, let's see, that's well, ki- probably the sa- I'm like less frugal in my day to day life.

• 37:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, you value your time now because you are a mom, yeah.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  I val- that is what it is. It is value my time. So it's like, I'd rather pay a premium to get time back with my kids. Or like, if I could punch above my weight, you know, by doing something on Bala, like my time is better spent. I might make more for giving five hours dedicated time to Bala than I would doing whatever this other task is. So I think, you know, valuing.

• 37:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Your time, for sure. Did you grow up like with an abundance mindset towards money? Or how did you grow up thinking about money?

• 38:01Speaker 02

  I always saved and worked really hard. Like I was like a sixteen year old that was waitressing and I was like middle class family had everything I needed, but I was like a sixteen year old waitressing like saved like ten thousand dollars on my own, like in a summer or two, you know, like I always felt, I think I g- I guess I felt like I needed to work hard and always have something going on in that sense. But I do have an abundance mindset, at least now about money, yeah.

• 38:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, I feel like when you, they always say that like whether it's like addiction or whatever, it's like when you almost like hit rock bottom, it's like you you just are like, there is no other option for me. Like I just have to think differently. When you think about like the world that we live in now with social media and especially being like the front face of the brand, I feel like there's so much pressure to spend on like new clothes and like fashion and beauty, like, do you have a certain category that you do find yourself like mom stuff aside that you're investing into and like prioritizing where you buy things? Like is it fashion? Is it workout classes? Like where do you find you spend your disposable income?

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Honestly, I don't even blink twice about like, you know, not like skincare, like skin things. Like I just did this like crazy.

• 39:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I was gonna say, your skin is amazing, what you do.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Laser facial, have you heard of the salmon sperm one?

• 39:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yes.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  I just did that. But I'm just saying, things like that.

• 39:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How much is that?

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Okay, that, I bought three sessions. It was twenty four hundred dollars.

• 39:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And where did you go?

• 39:24Speaker 02

  But I wouldn't spend like twenty four hundred dollars on a dress, you know what I mean? So like I spend in, like, that's like an investment in myself. I went to a place called Bliss Point in Larchmont.

• 39:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, cause you live on the east side.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  But this is, well, Larchmont, it's close enough to you.

• 39:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, yeah, I'm gonna go.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  You gotta do it. I mean, your skin's amazing.

• 39:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No, but this is like you have a glow to you. I was like, is she pregnant again?

• 39:44Speaker 02

  It's that. I swear then it must be that, cause.

• 39:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So you spend on skincare?

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Skincare and like wellness things, especially because it's research for our brand. Um, you know, like sauna, things like that, like cold pl- whatever. I don't.

• 39:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are you guys going into cold plunge and saunas and stuff?

• 40:00Speaker 02

  No, we're not, but I just feel like everything i- in wellness is research for the brand truly. And so I'll vitamins, things like that. I wouldn't bulk it. I would invest in, you know, my body and the skin.

• 40:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  We are doing a studio though.

• 40:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You are.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  But in New York.

• 40:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I thought that you guys had a studio.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  That was a pop-up.

• 40:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And did it go well?

• 40:19Speaker 02

  It did go well. That was in the time of spending too much money.

• 40:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  So it went well, but we spent too much money on it.

• 40:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  On it. And so now we're doing it differently.

• 40:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How, how much does a build out like that cost?

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Gosh, the build out, I guess, since I'm just going to be so super honest. The build out of that, I think was like probably three hundred thousand, but it was six month pop-up. So if you think about, you know, and then rent is like over twenty thousand and then you think about the operations and the design fees. It gets.

• 40:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It gets like half a million. Yeah.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  But if you're doing a build out for something that's staying, like our studio, it's a ten year lease.

• 40:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Like that could be double.

• 40:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What do you think about the exclusivity of the Aloe Gym when you're thinking about your Bala Studio? Is it going to be influencer only? Is it going to be reserved? Like, how do you think about exclusivity versus community marketing in today's world?

• 41:10Speaker 02

  So we'll always have like exclusive events, you know, like going on like, um, influencer events. But for our studio, we feel very firmly that we don't want it to be super influencer-y. I'm sure it will be because it'll be like beautiful and people will take selfies and all of that. But we want it to feel very, like, we want everyone to feel welcome and we want it to feel like, uh, like a true community. Anyone can come. We don't want anyone to feel like they have to like dress up and put makeup on to go. And we've heard that feedback in all of our research that we're doing right now about other studios that like carry a lot of Bala products. Sometimes people like love the workout, but they don't really want to go because they feel like maybe they don't look cute enough

• 41:53Speaker 02

  or they're not like dressed up enough. And so we're really trying to. Make that not the thing and we want everyone to feel welcome like truly. So I think that was how our store was too. So hopefully we'll pull that off.

• 42:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And is it going to be a store and studio in one?

• 42:06Speaker 02

  There'll be retail at the front. Like you can go pick up some Bangles or something, not full retail experience. And then it's really all about the studio.

• 42:12Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, it's so interesting and some insight. And this is why I love ASR so much because I get like firsthand feedback on what people love. When Lululemon opened their gym in New York, I posted being like, and I did a poll on my Instagram stories for ASR. What do you guys think will be more successful? Like Aloe Gym, Aloe Yoga's exclusivity? Or Lululemon's like come for everybody? And everybody was like, oh my God, community marketing, Lululemon. Like I'm so over Aloe because of the exclusivity factor. And I just feel like nowadays be building with your community is so important. And a lot of brands say that they do it, but then in practice, that's not where the money flows. Do you guys feel like the community is actually giving you that ROI versus influencer marketing?

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Yes, because they're the ones that are like, are really shopping.

• 43:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Um, but I think that that's a fair point. I mean, the poppy, you know, do you see?

• 43:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yes. What do you think about that?

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's too much money to spend on influencers, but we, we don't, we wouldn't ever spend that much on influencers. We would do like a cute mailer or something, of course, like, but I feel like, you know, however much it was, it was like $10,000 or vending machine or something. I feel like that is better spent for the community, you know, so like giving away like free classes for a week or whatever it is like, we definitely intend on.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Somebody asked me how I define myself and I didn't know what to say. Because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Because identity is not a performance, it's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox.

• 43:55Speaker 01

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• 43:59Speaker 03

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• 44:58Speaker 02

  Doing more community.

• 45:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, the thing I feel bad for with Poppy and the thing I think they were judged on incorrectly is like, let's say they're doing $300 million of revenue, which I don't know, but like, let's just say.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  They probably are.

• 45:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They probably are. Like, they have an influencer budget that's for those like big, grandiose awareness campaigns. Like exclusivity and influencer marketing works, cool. I do think that Poppy does do a good job of community marketing as well as influencer marketing. And so I did feel a little bit bad for them that I was like, they kind of do both and they're being like torn down for something where it's like, they kind of don't disregard their community, they just do both. But I feel like nowadays, being a founder, like you just can't win. And do you personally get affected when you get hate towards Bala?

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Yes, of course.

• 45:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How do you deal with that?

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Um, especially when I was the one responding to the emails, like any hate would like cut me so deep and I would like say something snarky back, get off customer service. How do I deal with that? I think I just say, you know, it's okay to not be for everyone and that just means that you're actually making a statement, like you're pissing someone off, like believe, like we've had people pissed because like we put a girl in like a super fashion outfit to work out and it's like, I don't know why you're pissed about that.

• 46:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Something else bad happened in your day, but you're not for us.

• 46:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  You know, and that's okay. And we made you feel something.

• 46:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  You know, and that means the people who felt they loved it, like they, we made them feel something. So I feel like it's better to make people feel something.

• 46:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you feel like there is such a pressure to put like such diversity in campaigns that it's like, it's hard as a small brand when you're like, well, I mean, you're lucky you don't actually make sizes of clothing where it's like you're having to do like an entire like size of guide of like so many different sizes or a makeup brand that has to do like so many different skin tones, otherwise like you're not inclusive. Do you feel that same pressure from like a creative standpoint where you're like, we have to put such diversity in our campaigns that it's like hard sometimes as a small brand?

• 46:59Speaker 02

  For sure. And it's like, sometimes you only have the budget for like one model and it's like the model, you have to pick what, you know, what ethnicity that model will be. And so, yes, I do feel like that's, that is tough and we really do try to have like di- diversity. Um, but it's, it is hard because then it's like, maybe we did have diversity, but not body inclusivity on this one campaign and like people, you know, reach out and we'll hear about it on our emails. Like, let's say we have like a feature, like a monthly balla babe feature. It could be like the Sammies would be on one, you know?

• 47:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Maggie Sellers will be on one.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  Maggie Sellers will be on our next one. And, um, basically balla babe feature. And it's like, if it's just like a hot. Girl, like, oh, my gosh, this is so disappointing, but it's like, well, you have to represent all and you can't be mad about. You know, so it's just tough and you have to just like. Realize you're always gonna hear something, even if you think you got it right.

• 47:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I'm so bad at that, like, I. I think I'm just so new to this, that like, it does really hurt me still, like, it hurts.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Do you get, you get, you've said it.

• 48:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I, oh, yeah, I, I get a lot.

• 48:02Speaker 02

  Like, it's like hot, smart, rich is like.

• 48:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh, that's like the worst for sure. It's actually crazy. So my boyfriend was telling me that somebody that he's friends with. Literally like told him not to date me when we were first running a date because of the name of my company. And then his best friend actually.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What? Came, his best friend came and like, straight up to my face was like, what is this about hot, smart, rich at your email address? And I was like, my goal is to be so provocative that I capture people's attention to empower women to become hot, smart, rich. If you do your research, you will know that like, I don't actually think that I'm hot, smart, rich. It is a way to cut through the noise of this world that we live in and do something that like. Brings the right people in. So that doesn't bother me. The stuff that bothers me is like. This stuff that feels really personal, like. That somebody.

• 48:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That is in my life is actually saying something about me like, that's not really like a close friend, but is like somebody that like knows something and I'll like. See it and I'm just like, whoa, like, I can't believe that that has like gotten out or like is there or. Things that don't bother me are like the sound of my voice. People are annoyed by or the name of my company, but it's more like. The mission of what I'm doing, like, who does she think that she is? She's such a know it all.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Like, say that, that's crazy.

• 49:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 49:23Speaker 02

  On what? On like Reddit? On Reddit, but that just means you're cool enough to be on Reddit. I mean.

• 49:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I know, but it's still really like Rachel, my PR is laughing because she's like, it's so good.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  You want them to say something. You want them to say something, especially with what you're building and it is catchy and anyone who knows you like knows your intent. So it's like.

• 49:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  Get rid of the noise, but easier said than done. I have thin skin too.

• 49:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I have such thin skin. It's something I'm working on and honestly, like my boyfriend sends me like a message every single day being like, don't care what people think about you, just keep doing your thing. And I think this is like the space that I craved so much like, growing up in the startup world that I did, I never felt like there was women I could like look up to that were honest, like you are being right now. Like it was such a facade of like, luxury and perfection and like curation and there was no understanding of like, how much does it cost to put a studio together? Like, what does it look like to almost like go into bankruptcy? Like all of the things that we experience? And that's why for me, it's like such a sacred thing. And I love bringing people like you on who are like, here is like the good, the bad and the ugly of what is actually happening.

• 50:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  When you come back from mat leave, what will your role look like?

• 50:34Speaker 02

  It's a good question and everyone's like, when are you coming back? Cause I, I just get to decide when I'm coming back, but um, I think I'm gonna just, I'm gonna structure. I was doing this before actually, cause I was so pregnant and I really wanted to get a lot of time in with my two-year-old daughter. Um, basically I just structure my days really differently. So like, I'll, you know, maybe like do some emails from eight to nine, but then I will like, take my daughter to the park or her library class from like nine to 12. Like, I, you know, that's like crazy to take like that three hour chunk right then, but then like she'll nap from like 12 to two or 12 to three and I'll like power through a bunch of stuff or schedule like a meeting then, you know, I like block my days around

• 51:16Speaker 02

  my kids so that I can be there for them. And um, or when the kids go to bed, I just know, hey, I'm gonna work for like, I really power through 30 minutes of emails or whatever it is. So I will structure my days to where I feel like I'm not missing out on my kid's life.

• 51:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And do you feel like your role at Bella is like moving more into that front-facing like creator founder role where you're like creating content? I saw you just did an ad with Amazon, which I was obsessed with. Like, is that the stuff that lights you up?

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do like that stuff a lot. I like working, you know, with other brands. I like, said it earlier, but giving business advice and you know, being an advisor to other companies. And so yes, I think that's where I would like to see my career go.

• 51:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love it.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. Well, to wrap up, because we're almost at time, I wanted to do some rapid fire. I love rapid fire.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Fun.

• 52:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Um, okay. If you could only pick one for the rest of your life, coffee, tea or cocktail?

• 52:08Speaker 02

  Oh my god, it's so hard. I have to go fast though. Coffee.

• 52:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What's your-

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Hard between coffee and cocktail.

• 52:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What's your coffee order?

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Oh, latte with a little bit of vanilla.

• 52:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, good. At least you, okay, like these girls that want to die on the hill for their coffee order and it's like a black coffee. I'm like babes, like you need to pick a cocktail.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  I don't know. Now I'm full of regret. I need cocktail.

• 52:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, what's your cocktail order?

• 52:28Speaker 02

  A spicy margarita.

• 52:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, love that.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  If I'm feeling crazy, a dirty martini.

• 52:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. If you could only pick one for the rest of your life, Pilates or strength training?

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Pilates.

• 52:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. Air One or Joe and the Juice?

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Air One.

• 52:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is there anything else that you could pick? Like, I was trying to think of something over Air One, like-

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Ooh. Not Joe and the Juice.

• 52:48Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Like, what about like-

• 52:48Speaker 02

  You need to go-

• 52:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I would, Air One or Sweet Green?

• 52:51Speaker 02

  That's a good one. Air One or Sweet Green.

• 52:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. What would you choose?

• 52:55Speaker 02

  Air One still.

• 52:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Nothing-

• 52:57Speaker 02

  There's more options.

• 52:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I know. Air One is so good. Okay, this one's tricky.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  Or Air One or Sugarfish.

• 53:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, who would you pick then?

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Still Air One.

• 53:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You're like, I got it this time.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Sugarfish for the rest of my life, you know?

• 53:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No. Who is your favorite comfort creator?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Comfort? What's comfort? Oh, it's like a trendy thing. What is it?

• 53:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's like a feel good, like creator. Like, who do you just, like, put on?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  A feel good creator?

• 53:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  I like Lauren Ireland.

• 53:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love her.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  She, and she's like a mom too and like a founder. So I feel like I, like, I just like it.

• 53:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You relate.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Who is the creator that works the best for Bala?

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Probably the Sammies, I would say, right now.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  We have this other guy, I forgot her name. Oh, Danny Austin.

• 53:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  Also.

• 53:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. So very like, like workout people?

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Well, Danny Austin's more like lifestyle.

• 53:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, I don't know her.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Mom. And she really is like high converting, but doesn't really post a lot, just when we have. Um, but yeah, workout people. People with like a following, like, like a Sammy.

• 53:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  Has, you know, there are millions of followers.

• 54:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah. Uh, what affiliate platform do you guys use?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  We just switched to ShopMy.

• 54:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, cool.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Um, what is your favorite Bala product? This is hard. Bars, the bars, the three pound bars.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is the, your favorite marketing campaign that's not yours? Or like influencer collab partnership?

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Oh, I love what Set Active just did for International Women's Day and they pulled in a bunch of founders, not really direct competitors, but all kind of worked together and uh, we did a shoot and it was really great.

• 54:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you love to be a model?

• 54:35Speaker 02

  That was fun.

• 54:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love it. Um, okay. What is your favorite way to ask for money?

• 54:42Speaker 02

  From who?

• 54:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It, anybody. Investors, like customers, like how do you, like I, I have this thing where I do an HSR discount. So every time I'm checking out of a retail store, I'm like, can I have 15% off? And they're like, what? Look at my, look at Rachel's face. And they go, what? And I get, I go, yeah, I would like 15% off my order. And they say, why would I ever give you 15% off your order? And I said, I don't know. Can I get it?

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Do they do it?

• 55:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  50% of the time they do.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  See, I don't have like, I don't have the balls for that.

• 55:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You know what I think it is?

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Price given.

• 55:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No, rejection therapy. We are rejected so much in life and the thing that built me so much resilience is when I first started my career, I did a hundred cold calls a day and I was just hung up on and told to fuck off. And now I don't give a fuck if you reject me. I'm like, your loss.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  I agree with that. And I actually say, like, say that about business too. But for some reason in some areas, like I'm at a store and I'm going to ask for discount, like I could never. But, but for business, I would like ask any, anything. Okay. So my favorite way to ask for money, I'm thinking of who? Um, oh, I like like a referral program or something.

• 55:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, love that.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  From a partner brand, like an agency or something, because I'm always getting asked, um, you know, if you, you needed, uh,

• 56:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Design services.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  Design services. And it's like, okay, I actually have somebody really good. So it's great if I get that referral.

• 56:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  For sure. Love that. So you ask for the referral fee?

• 56:09Speaker 02

  I ask the brand.

• 56:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  So it's like, let's say I'm recommending the design, not always, but like if it's a tech platform, like they have the, they have the budget. So it's like, I'll refer you for.

• 56:20Maggie Sellers Reum?

  For sure.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  A referral based on.

• 56:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  A lot of women don't do that. They feel like awkward asking for that, but it's like even for me, I actually wanted to say to my landlord, like if I find you somebody to move into my apartment, I want 15% of their first month's run because I found you your tenant. You didn't need to hire a real estate agent.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Exactly what it is. And I, I think that's a flex your muscle thing because I might've felt sheepish the first time I did it. But what I realized is like, these people, like I'm talking mostly like a tech or SaaS platform. They might send like 200 cold emails, but like I have the direct contact to the brand. And if you just asked me.

• 56:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I should get paid for that.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. So.

• 56:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But women don't think like that. They're like, I'll just do it. And it's so funny being around like my boyfriend now who's just so successful in business. Like he gets paid for what he does. And he looks at me when I like, don't ask for stuff. And he's like, Maggie, like you deserve to be paid for that introduction. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  I literally am doing a Substack article tomorrow on finance tools. And um, I asked every brand that I'm promoting for either like to, to pay for it or give me a percentage because I know other people are going to look to it and click and they're going to want to use some of the tools Bala uses. So.

• 57:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Of course.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  Some money from it. But I think that's a flex your muscle kind of.

• 57:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah. Who is your favorite Substack writer?

• 57:28Speaker 02

  I uh, I like Emily Austin.

• 57:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Don't know her. No.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  She um, I actually want to read her book, but I've just been seeing, she's somebody I follow. Who's your favorite? I'm like, I need a Diana, who we just saw was great. She has like a very whimsical one.

• 57:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I was actually going to say like, I relate to that and I do really like it. And I feel like she writes it from the heart. So I like hers. Yeah. And I'm not a big Substack really.

• 57:50Speaker 02

  Do you have Heart Smart Rich on there?

• 57:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I have a newsletter that's like the Bible. Yeah.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 57:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, but it's not on Substack.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  But I think I thought that was a Substack because you get emailed from them. You know, so I think I probably thought that was one. It doesn't need to be if you have your own.

• 58:05Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  The only thing you might be missing is acquiring that customer because I just uh, launched mine and most of the people have come from Substack.

• 58:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So that's the one thing I actually, yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Copy paste it there. Cause what do you?

• 58:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I did say to my sister the other day, I was like, I feel like we are missing out on that. Like if, if you followed me and then people are like, who was, who was Natalie following on Substack? Then they would follow me automatically. So for us to acquire a customer is actually like a lot harder.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But I think that for some reason, the way that like ours is formatted is now, cause I started it so long ago before everybody got Substacked. That it's like iconic kind of, and people are like, if you didn't have your mood board and like all the things on it, it wouldn't be the newsletter anymore.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  And you have your podcast. Yeah. So you don't need all the media.

• 58:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  It's, it's, you know, you need like a couple.

• 59:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But I'm going to start following that girl that you said, okay. Last question, what is your personal mission statement?

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Ooh, personal mission statement. Let's think.

• 59:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I have one for you, like just based on your mom, your mom life is like, to empower women that like you can do it all and look good while doing it.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  Oh, I like that.

• 59:20Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Like I just feel because I do really mean what I say. And I haven't actually, not that people that have been on the podcast aren't girls, girls. But like you, I just feel like are so not competitive. You're so grounded in who you are. And I think it starts with like you being a mom so early on in Bala's journey. That like you just had bigger things to worry about from the day you started, but you really are a girl's girl. And you really have like built such a big business while being a mom and like being married and having it all. So I feel like that should be your mission statement.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like that. Yeah. To empower.

• 59:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Women to have it all and look good doing it.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  To empower women to have it all and look good doing it. I like it.

• 1:00:01Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. Well, we just solidified Natalie Holloway's mission statement on Hot Smart Rich.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  I really like it.

• 1:00:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Thank you so much for coming on and being so honest. It's honestly conversations like this that I feel like will truly empower women to like build businesses they're passionate about and just go after what they want and look good doing it. So thank you so much. I'm so happy you came on. I'm so honored. Where can people find you?

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Thank you. Um, at Natalie Holloway on Instagram or at Bala.

• 1:00:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. Love it. Plug the brand. Yeah. Thank you so much. And we really appreciate it, Natalie.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:00:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, "Am I even doing this correctly? Or do I even want to be doing this?" Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor Northwest Registered Agent is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 1:01:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

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