Straight Edge For Life: Punk Icon Toby Morse On Positivity, Parenting & Plant-Based Living

Don’t forget the struggle, the streets, or your roots, and resist selling out—such is the message from today's guest, Toby Morse. Toby, the frontman of the hardcore punk band H2O and host of the One Life One Chance podcast, is here to dispense a rebellious prescription of Positive Mental Attitude (PMA). Inspired by the 1988 Lower East Side transgressive punk rock scene, Toby formed H2O, synonymous with Straight Edge and PMA communities. Committed to a plant-based, drug, and alcohol-free lifestyle, Toby defies societal norms in the music and tattooed subcultures. Celebrating individuality, he champions misfits, spreading hope for positive change among the youth. Our conversation explores the profound significance of friendship, fatherhood, and the transformative journey within the hardcore punk movement. Toby advocates for a non-conformist lifestyle, aligning with his passion for animal rights and fostering positivity amidst societal challenges and social media acrimony. We delve into Toby's fitness regimen, cold plunging, and the pursuit of authenticity in podcasting. This conversation is uplifting, insightful, and gratifying—an exploration of punk ethos, friendship, and positivity. Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Bon Charge: Use code RICHROLL to save 15% OFF 👉boncharge.com/RICHROLL AG1: Get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 & 5 FREE AG1 Travel Packs 👉 drinkAG1.com/richroll Waking Up: Get a FREE month, plus $30 OFF 👉wakingup.com/RICHROLL Roka: Unlock 20% OFF your order with code RICHROLL 👉ROKA.com/RICHROLL This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp: Listeners get 10% OFF their first month 👉 BetterHelp.com/RICHROLL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout. Toby Morris, my friendship mentor.

• 1:08Toby Morse?

  Hot friends who count for me like family. There's always time for your friends, no matter how busy people are. And so, I appreciate all these people that I met who took me under the wing and showed me what it's like to have real friendships.

• 1:19Rich Roll?

  For somebody who maybe doesn't have a lot of familiarity with the punk scene or the hardcore scene, when you say, like, you know, "You live this ethos," what is that? Like, how do you put words to that?

• 1:29Toby Morse?

  Being drug-free my entire life, not eating animals since 1988. I pride myself on living my lyrics that I wrote 30 years ago.

• 1:38Rich Roll?

  You truly are one of the most positive people in my life, and I find myself struggling to remain positive about the broader world.

• 1:47Toby Morse?

  Yeah, it's hard, because the world is fucked. I'm a fucking human being, and I go through things. I get dark, I get sad about the world.

• 1:54Rich Roll?

  How do you maintain that positivity?

• 1:56Toby Morse?

  For me, it's just...

• 2:04Rich Roll?

  We're live buddy, good to see you.

• 2:05Toby Morse?

  You too, man.

• 2:06Rich Roll?

  Thanks for doing this.

• 2:07Toby Morse?

  Of course, man.

• 2:08Rich Roll?

  We hang out all the time, but the fact that you're coming back for the second time, I was reflecting on the first time that you came on the show, which you just reminded me was four years ago.

• 2:17Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 2:18Rich Roll?

  It seems like yesterday, it also seems like a lifetime ago. The world has changed a lot since then.

• 2:22Toby Morse?

  A lot.

• 2:23Rich Roll?

  A lot's been going on in your life, my life, of course. And it's been really, you know, I just want to say like upfront, like it's been incredibly rewarding to have this friendship with you. And I think it's hard as adults to make new friends.

• 2:42Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 2:43Rich Roll?

  And I've had my adventures with friendship and lack of friendship. Like I've spent the last decade kind of nose to the grindstone trying to build this thing. And any extra time that I had was spent with my family and raising kids and all of that. And you lose touch with your good friends.

• 2:59Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 2:59Rich Roll?

  And then that phone feels really heavy. But you came into my life and you're such a relentless like sort of person in terms of like cultivating friendship, like you're sort of my friendship mentor. Not that I call you and ask you, ask you questions about how to be a good friend, but for me, like you model, you model like how to be a good friend. And I've seen your life nourished as a result of that. Like you're always surrounded by friends. You're always going out of your way to help your friends out. And I know that's like a big kind of theme of your whole life, but I've been privileged to kind of witness that in action. And it's been really impactful to me, man. And so I just wanted to thank you.

• 3:39Toby Morse?

  Thank you, man.

• 3:39Rich Roll?

  Like my life is better for, for having you in it.

• 3:42Toby Morse?

  Thank you. I mean, I mean, I appreciate that and getting to know you, becoming your friend. And I've always cherished my friendships and I really took them seriously and really care about my friends, especially if I really love a person like I love you, like I love my friends and I always want to check in on them. I always want to hang with them and I know I can't. I even sent, I sent a text to Brolin a couple of days ago. I said, cause we're always texting and sending videos and I'm like, I'm sorry if I'm always trying to hang out because, but I love hanging out with you when we hang out. It's just, we have these great conversations and it's very inspirational hanging out with my friends. And he's like, dude, I appreciate it too. He's like, but he's got three kids, he's got, everybody have lives going on and I have a lot, I have a family as well. And sometimes I just.

• 4:24Toby Morse?

  Forget about that in a sense, I just wanna have that time with my friends to hang out, but I know it's not that easy. Especially when they're so far away, but so close.

• 4:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 4:30Toby Morse?

  Like, but yeah, I mean, I've always been like that. I wrote songs about that. I um, don't have, it seems like I do have a lot of friends. But there's a small, there's a small amount of friends who are like, my close friends, and I consider you one of them. You know, I mean, someone I can talk to about anything and uh, when I hang out, you don't have to hang out all the time to be close, but when we actually, when we hang out together, it's awesome.

• 4:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, you have this posse. Like every time I meet up with you in town, it's Chappelle, it's you, it's Derek.

• 4:55Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 4:55Rich Roll?

  You guys like hold court at whatever vegan restaurant. It used to be, our boy Jared's place Taco Vega and that went under and then he moved to Green Table.

• 5:04Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 5:05Rich Roll?

  But I don't, you know, like, I don't make trips into town that often.

• 5:08Toby Morse?

  I know.

• 5:09Rich Roll?

  Uh, you know, for people that don't know, like I live on the complete other side of town and with traffic here, it's like, you know, it's like, it could be an hour and a half just to, you know, drive from my house to yours.

• 5:19Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Rich Roll?

  Um, to the point where you're like, are we still friends? You know, it's like, bro, you can come out to Calabasas anytime you want.

• 5:27Toby Morse?

  I know, I know. The thing is, I don't own a car and I don't drive on highways.

• 5:31Rich Roll?

  I know. And you live in Los Angeles, which is, that is like no small feat.

• 5:35Toby Morse?

  I would take a bird scoot- nah. Um, I walk, I run, I take bird scooters, take Ubers. I'm living like, I live in New York City. I walk to everything. I've created this, I stay in my zone.

• 5:45Rich Roll?

  You have a little blue zone.

• 5:47Toby Morse?

  Yeah, and now that I have like the little compound in my house, I have my Pico spa crew, like I keep everything, I just stay in my area, you know what I mean?

• 5:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the PMA zone.

• 5:54Toby Morse?

  PMA zone. But like, yeah. I never driven on highways. I brought, I don't know, it's weird, it's a whole other story, but yeah, I don't, I don't know.

• 6:01Rich Roll?

  You mentioned Brolin, you're talking about Josh Brolin. That guy is like your biggest fan. Like, half his social media is dedicated to promoting your podcast. It's unbelievable.

• 6:09Toby Morse?

  I love him, dude.

• 6:11Rich Roll?

  Will you tell the story about how you guys met? Cause that's an incredible story.

• 6:14Toby Morse?

  Um. She was almost like eight or nine years ago coming out of Crossroads and I was with my friend. He has a lowrider. We came out and Josh was with his wife Catherine, taking photos of her in front of the lowrider. And we had this brief moment, just saying hi. We barely said each other's name. Nice to meet you. That was it. And then, I don't know, like the next day or two, like he followed me on social media. I followed him back. Totally some random moment, some random moment. And he sent me that picture the other day. This is the first time we met. It was a picture of that car. Just, I never, obviously I knew who he was. Uh, he wasn't coming to Crossroads. It was this LA moment, but it was just super like, what's up? And then it just happened and like, he's just a real one. He's just like a A-list Hollywood actor who is the most humble,

• 6:59Toby Morse?

  punk rock ethics, just human being, you know what I mean? Like he's just like so authentic and so honest and just, I don't know, I just, cause he's in such this world of Hollywood, but he's not like that.

• 7:10Rich Roll?

  Right. Um, and I think he, he, I think he appreciates you for the realness, you know? And that's returned in kind. Like he's going out of his way to shine a light on you. And clearly he doesn't have to do that, right? Like that's because he has this huge place in his heart for you.

• 7:30Toby Morse?

  Yeah, he's just, he's a solid human man. He's like one of my close friends out here and uh, just meeting that random time became such a great uh friendship. Just nice.

• 7:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's cool. Um, where did the, the, this whole thing around friendship kind of crop up for you? Have you just always been this way?

• 7:48Toby Morse?

  Hardcore scene, man. Like, like coming out of a family who, um, you know, my mom was raising three boys on her own after my dad passed. And going to my first punk rock show and feeling this community, this kind of family that I didn't have at home. Cause my mom was so busy. She wasn't there that much. And being part of this crazy dysfunctional, uh, outcast weirdo family of punk rock that I really was, I just like gravitated towards it. And uh, and then moving to New York and being part of this incredible scene where it's like the, the New York family. And we have a song called Family Tree and all these people taking me under their wings, giving me that tough New York love. And like, just showing me. I became like, pretty much like a man. I moved to New York when I was 18.

• 8:31Toby Morse?

  You know, I'd never been to New York City. I got dropped up at CBGB's. I'm part of this like, tough, kinda hard, skinhead scene and I'm this like little naive, positive skateboard kid and um, yeah, just the whole friends, family thing. People really looking out for each other. That's one of our biggest songs, this five-year plan with that, with those lyrics. And so I've always appreciated that because that that time in my life when I was part of that scene and got to move to New York, it changed me forever. And so I appreciate every single person, every single peer and legend and ball breaker and all these people that I met who took me under the wing and showed me what it's like to have like real friendships. And so I've always been like that my whole life with everything. I take it seriously. You know what I mean? There's always time for, there's always time for your friends. I mean, how busy people are.

• 9:16Toby Morse?

  You know what I mean? And like, and I appreciate um, people that take the time. Even just a call, just whatever. But also you, when I said that to you, I was like, maybe I was breaking your balls, but like, I know you're busy. I see you traveling everywhere. You know what I mean? Like, but I just really missed you. You know what I mean? Like, so yeah.

• 9:32Rich Roll?

  I appreciate that.

• 9:33Toby Morse?

  And here we are.

• 9:34Rich Roll?

  When you live in a place like New York City, that almost happens to you. And I think Los Angeles is very different. It can be an extremely lonely place, right? You have to make that kinda effort if you wanna stay in touch with friends or cultivate those friendships because it doesn't just happen by chance.

• 9:52Toby Morse?

  You do. In New York, it was like, yo, we're gonna meet up at this show Friday night and your friends will be there. Here, it's like, let's do lunch, let's do this, let's talk about this. It never happens. You know what I mean? It's just like-

• 10:01Rich Roll?

  It's the weirdest thing.

• 10:02Toby Morse?

  So old.

• 10:02Rich Roll?

  And it's not the people, like, all those people, myself included, if I go to New York, then suddenly you're like available and you're good to go and like, oh, what are you doing right now? And you go and you do it. Because everything is so accessible. Like, I can get to that place in 10 minutes.

• 10:16Toby Morse?

  It's a driving thing, I think, man, for sure. Because you can just walk and meet people all throughout the night. Three different people in New York if you want it one night. But yeah, the California thing, yeah, that was, that's tricky. It, it is kind of a lonely place, especially when I first moved here. For the first two years, I was like, I didn't wanna move here in the first place, but my wife's like, we won't move to California. But uh, yeah, but then you find your people. I mean, a lot of people I know are even from California that I hang out with. A lot of transplants.

• 10:39Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, this is a city of transplants, you know, for sure.

• 10:43Toby Morse?

  Who's really from here?

• 10:44Rich Roll?

  You mentioned the hardcore scene in New York back in the day. You were central to that and it feels like a movement that was very much of a particular time. But there's something about- That hardcore scene that like prevails, right? You said before the podcast, you went to Suicidal Tendencies last night?

• 11:03Toby Morse?

  Agnostic Front, yeah.

• 11:04Rich Roll?

  That's still a band? Like, these bands are still playing and touring and that community aspect of it is still like a very real thing.

• 11:12Toby Morse?

  And it's also like, it's that young spirit too. Like, Mike Muir is like 61 years old, going off every single song. Agnostic Front, Vinnie Stigma is 68 years old? And killing it? And it's this love of this music and it's like really living these lyrics? And it's like doing what you love? It's a combination of all of it. But the crowd last night was very young, which was really cool. Cause they were celebrating a 40 year old album. But yeah, I think playing music and especially hardcore and punk. I don't know, we're like big kids, man. I think musicians are all big kids.

• 11:43Rich Roll?

  What do you make of that? The younger generation getting into it?

• 11:47Toby Morse?

  I think it's awesome. I think that it's super important. I think that especially bands like Agnostic Front and Suicidal, they're staples in this culture, punk rock and hardcore. So it's like, there's Sex Pistols, there's Ramones, there's A Clash? And then these other bands that make the same list? Like, you have to check out these bands. These are like the pioneers. These are the legends. These guys are like some of the blueprints of this music. So I think it's cool that kids are actually going back and checking the history of it, the roots of it. You know what I mean?

• 12:15Rich Roll?

  What's different about now versus then though, is that to be into that kind of thing then was transgressive, right? You were sort of making a statement about, you know, who you were and who you weren't. Like, you know, I'm not gonna be part of this. This sort of mainstream world is gonna be over there and I'm gonna find my community in this, you know, kind of collection of misfits and weirdos. And now, it's not really transgressive to be into punk rock. There has to be another motivation that lures people into that.

• 12:47Toby Morse?

  Yeah, ma- maybe, maybe for the bands itself, it's different because they've been doing it so long. But for the kids, this is all new to them, too. This could be, that could have been their first show last night in 2023. Do you know what I mean? It's their first punk show. So there was young kids with mohawks and like discharged shirts and just kids that looked like throwbacks from the eighties. So I feel like, I don't know, I feel every generation is different, but there's so many young hardcore bands right now and the scene's bigger than it has ever been, especially coming out of the pandemic. Cause everybody was watching videos of these bands, like writing songs or like practicing. And then once everything opened back up, this show is every night and there's like such a young um generation of really, really great hardcore bands.

• 13:26Rich Roll?

  Including your son who plays drums for you now.

• 13:28Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 13:28Rich Roll?

  How old is Max now?

• 13:29Toby Morse?

  He's twenty.

• 13:30Rich Roll?

  Nineteen? Oh, he's twenty, wow.

• 13:32Toby Morse?

  Yeah, that's pretty crazy, too.

• 13:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and so how does he think about the whole world? I mean, he sort of grew up with it, right?

• 13:38Toby Morse?

  He did grow up and he's into-

• 13:39Rich Roll?

  What do his peers think about that?

• 13:41Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I mean, he's into like his own bands, he's into his own new hardcore bands. Like he's going to see shows on his own now, bands he's turning me on to. Yeah, it's interesting because obviously he's twenty, this band's thirty years old next year. Um, he grew up going on tour with me, he grew up hearing these songs, but he doesn't really love hardcore as much as people think. He, he's really finding his own music, he's more like to like heavier stuff. But um, yeah, it's, his, his friends trip out on it because his friends know his dad has this band, but now he's playing drums in it and he's actually an incredible drummer, it's not because he's my son. And uh, yeah, it's been really fun with him, it's like a, a brand new energy in the bands. He's like writing the setlist, he's like, why don't you guys play this song, this song's great. And he's adding songs into our setlist, so we're like a reborn band, actually.

• 14:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I think when we, when we, when you did the podcast the first time, he was about to go out with you for the first time.

• 14:31Toby Morse?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:31Rich Roll?

  And that was sort of just an experiment or he was gonna stand in. But now he's like in the band.

• 14:37Toby Morse?

  Now he's in the band. Now we're gonna like write songs together, we're gonna like record something, yeah, which is really, it's very surreal. Like sometimes when I'm playing on stage, I look back and I'm like, oh, that's, that's just Max, my son, like he's on stage, but like, holy shit, like I made that kid. Like it's like, it's crazy, like trying to separate like, he's killing it right now, we sound so good, my band's so happy. And um, yeah, I don't know how long it's gonna last, I don't know what, you know, he's doing his own thing, but like, right now, it's awesome, man.

• 15:04Rich Roll?

  When was the band formed, again?

• 15:06Toby Morse?

  December, I have a tattoo on my hand, December 30th.

• 15:10Rich Roll?

  Because you can't remember.

• 15:12Toby Morse?

  December 30th, uh, 1994.

• 15:14Rich Roll?

  94. That's a long time, man.

• 15:16Toby Morse?

  It's freaking crazy.

• 15:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Toby Morse?

  And to like be a band and like, not have millions of records sold, not have hit records or radio or MTV or just...

• 15:24Rich Roll?

  Right, I mean, that's, that's the interesting thing to me, is that you've been able to, it's not like, oh, let's keep the dream alive, like you've, you've made a career and built a life for yourself with this band, but it's very much a DIY story. I mean, you had some moments back in the day and whatever, but like, for the last good while, it's just you with a hardcore group of, pardon the pun, like hardcore group of like loyal fans who are gonna show up and support you. And I think it speaks to like this new era that we're in where you don't have to be for everyone, and you don't have to sell out huge arenas or whatever, like you can do your thing and find your people

• 16:04Rich Roll?

  and have like a really great life, like servicing the people who enjoy what you do and not needing it necessarily to be anything bigger or grander than that.

• 16:14Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I mean, we do it, obviously we've made some money in our career, but it wasn't a lot, but we also still do it, it's still pretty much original members, um, and we do it, we love it, we love each other, we hang out in real life, people trip out that my band are friends, we text every day, we hang out when we're not on tour, you know, we're like brothers, and that's the most important thing to me, beyond the band. Yeah, and I think that, that kind of shows and people know that it's real and we're the exact same people we were many, many years ago, maybe more gray hair, maybe less hair. But yeah, like we still live, I lived, I lived, I pride myself on living my lyrics that I wrote. Thirty years ago.

• 16:52Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:52Toby Morse?

  That's, that's the same per- I'm the same person. I'm, I'm a big kid. Uh, obviously with more responsibilities, but this is who I am. Like punk rock and hardcore and everything like really is embedded in my soul, regardless if I maybe not live, uh, the most punk rock. Like, I don't know, uh, wear shoes that aren't super DIY. Do you know what I mean? Like all the ethics of it. Um, but yeah, this is, this is, I live this. It's in my blood. It's in my, it's in my heart. It's the spirit in me. And that's why I think I feel like I may act young or feel young, um, and still love to do what I do. Cause I still believe in it and I feel like it matters and I feel like I won't stop playing until people stop really coming to shows or listening. Like people still care.

• 17:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 17:33Toby Morse?

  Which is awesome.

• 17:34Rich Roll?

  And for somebody who's listening or watching who maybe doesn't have a lot of familiarity with the punk scene or the hardcore scene. When you say like, you know, you live this, this ethos, like what is that? Like, how do you put words to that? Like, what does that mean?

• 17:47Toby Morse?

  For me, it's just unapologetically being myself forever. Um, for me, you know, being drug free my entire life i- is, is a rebellion in itself against the mainstream and against what people expect, uh, musicians to be or rock and rollers to be or people who are heavily tattooed kind of lifestyle is supposed to have. Um, not eating animals since 1988. Um, going against the grain, going against society, um, not having the nine to five for me, which I respect people who have that. Um, and just doing what I want to do and really having no boss and living the best I can be as a person, a human every day and trying to inspire people and make this world a better place.

• 18:30Toby Morse?

  For me, that's, for me, that's my punk rock hardcoreness. Um, being true to myself, being honest. I never tried to be anything else my entire life except for myself. I never tried to impress anybody. I never tried to be a certain way to fit in. I've always just been me. Some people don't like that. Some people love it. Um. Yeah, I'm just a happy, hyper-high-on-life kind of human.

• 18:51Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:51Toby Morse?

  And, uh, sometimes people can be intimidated by that or offended by that, but this is ju- it's just me. I just, I've always been like, people that know me, that, that's who I am. Like, I just, I still skateboard. Um, yeah, I just feel like a kid. I don't know what it is. Maybe it is my lifestyle of not partying, not eating animals, but I work out a lot and I just, uh, I don't know. I have this spirit inside of me, man. I don't know, man. Maybe I'm fucking Peter Pan or some shit. I don't know. I don't know.

• 19:15Rich Roll?

  Well, you definitely have a lot of energy, you know?

• 19:17Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 19:18Rich Roll?

  You're always positive. You're always enthusiastic.

• 19:21Toby Morse?

  I have a good life.

• 19:21Rich Roll?

  I've never seen you, like, aggravated or like, you know?

• 19:24Toby Morse?

  But I do get like that.

• 19:25Rich Roll?

  I'll come in hot, like, "Oh, God, I'm tired" or whatever, and you're like confused, you know?

• 19:29Toby Morse?

  But also, for the record, people do think that I'm positive every single day. I'm a fucking human being and then I go through things. I get dark. I get sad about the world. I feel a lot of the pain of the world, uh, as most people have and are doing lately. Um, but I try to think of the positive. I have a great life. I've been married 27 years. I have an awesome son. I'm very lucky to have an awesome family and a wife who supports me being a big kid, traveling out with my best friends, playing this fucking crazy music. You know, my wife's a big part of my life, man, who like held me down.

• 19:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 20:00Toby Morse?

  Through many, many fucking years of...

• 20:01Rich Roll?

  Moon is super cool.

• 20:03Toby Morse?

  So like, I'm very, like, I'm not gonna, you know? But also, yeah, things upset me, things get me mad, but thanks to like exercise and the plunge and the sun, all this stuff, it's a, cause I didn't have that last time we talked on here.

• 20:14Rich Roll?

  I know. We're gonna get into, we're gonna get into that. We're gonna get into that.

• 20:17Toby Morse?

  Haha.

• 20:17Rich Roll?

  Um, but I wanna stick with, I wanna follow through on this idea of like the DIY life that you built for yourself. Like, are you, so, the band tours, you do your thing, you don't really answer to anyone, but you've built this career.

• 20:32Toby Morse?

  I answer to my wife.

• 20:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you answer, of course. Um, you have a lot, like, merch is a big part of like, kind of the band and, and what you do. And I think y- you had told me that like, you st- like, you package everything and you like, are you, you still do all of that yourself? Right? So if you order like something on, you know, from H2O, like a hoodie or whatever, like, you're the one who's like putting it in the box.

• 20:56Toby Morse?

  It's for me. I'm answering all the emails. Emails, where's my merch? Can you change the size? And then when I write back to them, it's really like, oh my God, I didn't realize you do this. I do it all. I, I, I design it. I put it online. I do the pre-orders. Uh, my friend Alex picks it up for me sometimes. Um, and I do all the merch and I ship it out. I go to the post office. I printed every label. I signed the international ones. I put notes in there. I sign people's stuff and I love that. It's just directly from me to them. I, I love it and I appreciate it. And, uh, it's going great. It's been going great for years. People now know I do it, but now they can DM me like, where's my stuff? And like,

• 21:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 21:30Toby Morse?

  Stressing me out for listeners is that when I say preorder, that means it's a preorder. That means it's not ready at this moment. Sometimes I'll get an email the next day, where's my order? I'm like, it says preorder. You know, Google preorder means it could take two or three weeks, especially now. Everything's backed up since the pandemic. Everything's more expensive. Everything takes a longer time. People have to be more patient coming out of this because everyone's touring, everybody's making merch and the garments are hard to get, different size. It's really a different world coming out of the pandemic. But be patient.

• 21:59Rich Roll?

  I think I told you at one point.

• 22:01Toby Morse?

  Not to do it.

• 22:02Rich Roll?

  Like, well, just, listen, man, you should focus on the stuff that only you can do. So you can be Toby and you can find somebody else to do this, but I, I feel, I have this sense that you, you, well, you love it, but also I think you probably believe that if you let somebody else handle that for you, it's sort of the beginning of the end.

• 22:20Toby Morse?

  It's hard to let go.

• 22:21Rich Roll?

  You're, you're, yeah, it's, it's, you've lost like, that there's some, it'll be a chink in, in the authenticity of what you're trying to do. And part of that is probably true and part of that is an illusion that might be holding you back. You know what I mean?

• 22:36Toby Morse?

  Yeah, but I, I do, I do enjoy, I enjoy it. I enjoy seeing the same people's names written, the same stuff. I'll write, no, thank you again. Like, I don't know. I just, I love it. I've saved every letter I've gotten from people my entire life. I've written every single person back. I, I appreciate my life and I appreciate people's support. So it's coming directly from me. Um, not that it makes it any more special, but I just, I'm very hands-on. Like, I'm very DIY. I love just doing it. It doesn't bother me. And actually, when I'm printing out labels and packs, it's really relaxing. I just chill in my office and do it. It's like shut everything down and just, I don't know. I've been doing freerettis. I don't know.

• 23:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So when you were, when you were on the show the first time, we went into like your whole kind of coming up story, backstory and all that. I don't want to, I don't want to retread that, but I do think it's worth spending a few minutes on, on the fact that like you've been drug free your entire life, which is amazing. Like you've never taken drugs, you've never gotten drunk, you've never had one beer?

• 23:30Toby Morse?

  No.

• 23:31Rich Roll?

  Your whole life?

• 23:31Toby Morse?

  Nothing.

• 23:32Rich Roll?

  Smoked a cigarette?

• 23:33Toby Morse?

  No.

• 23:33Rich Roll?

  Chewed tobacco, anything?

• 23:36Toby Morse?

  My mom chain smoked in the house.

• 23:38Rich Roll?

  So the straight edge thing enters your life at a very young age when you were extremely impressionable and needed a little bit of guidance and that ultimately is what led you to New York City, right?

• 23:48Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 23:49Rich Roll?

  But the fact that you have like adhered to this path without wavering for decades, without even dipping your toe in anything, even accidentally, is kind of amazing.

• 24:00Toby Morse?

  So scared of it my whole life, probably not anymore because I'm in my 50s, but yeah, I was, I saw my brothers partying around me, they choose me to punk rock and then I hear this, different types of punk rock, then I hear Minor Threat, song called Straight Edge. I was like, wow, these guys are aggressive. I can skate to them and I don't actually have to drink or do drugs. It'd be cool, fit in. Sign me up. 13 years old, sign me up. I, I'm never going to try anything. I saw my brothers, they was, I was so scared of them when they were high or drinking a beer. My mom was chain smoking, my clothes smelled like Virginia Slims my whole life. Smelled like cigarettes, all my clothes going to school.

• 24:32Rich Roll?

  My mom smoked Virginia Slims, yeah.

• 24:35Toby Morse?

  I hated cigarettes.

• 24:36Rich Roll?

  Didn't you live, you lived in Maryland for a while, right?

• 24:39Toby Morse?

  Yeah, for high school.

• 24:40Rich Roll?

  St. Mary's?

• 24:40Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 24:41Rich Roll?

  Is that where you went to high school?

• 24:42Toby Morse?

  Yeah, my mom got a job there.

• 24:43Rich Roll?

  I know that town. Yeah, wow.

• 24:45Toby Morse?

  Went from Rhode Island to there. But yeah, I just, the timing was perfect for me because I was a, wanted to be a pro skater. I was skating to all this aggressive punk. It came, that was like the soundtrack in the eighties was punk and skating. And I heard Minor Threat and that was it. Then I found, then I found other bands after that, the same ideals and also Animal Rights came in as well. But yeah, never tried anything. And then there was really no peer pressure in high school. I was like hyper breakdancing, skateboarding kind of guy. I was the prom king.

• 25:11Rich Roll?

  Were you, you were prom king? Like you're the kid who like everybody liked, it didn't matter, you know, like you didn't, you transcended the cliques, right?

• 25:18Toby Morse?

  I guess, yeah.

• 25:18Rich Roll?

  I could see you just... Going, switch, toggle switching between groups with no problem.

• 25:23Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I was going to, I was going to cake parties, just like drinking soda and stuff. And they knew I was like the kind of weird kid in the school. Nobody tried to pressure me. The pressure kind of came when I left school and got in the band. I was with all these other bands backstage and traveling, there was drugs and there was drinking everywhere. But there was really no pressure. People was like, you still, you haven't grown out of that? My barber, who I've had for like 30 years, still asks me, have you ever had a drink yet? I was like, no, it's never gonna happen. Like, it's not something that's gonna happen all of a sudden. You know what I mean? Like, it's never... Yeah, it's crazy because my son's like that too, and he's 20. Like, he never tried anything. And there's no pressure. He just sees how I am. He's hyper too, so.

• 26:00Rich Roll?

  And the no animal diet comes in, um, with the entrance of Bad Brains, right?

• 26:06Toby Morse?

  Bad Brains, Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits.

• 26:09Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 26:10Toby Morse?

  Uh, Soul Sight, even KRS-One has a song called My Philosophy.

• 26:13Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 26:13Toby Morse?

  So 88.

• 26:14Rich Roll?

  Were you roommates with Gorilla Biscuits?

• 26:15Toby Morse?

  Yes, in Queens. I lived in the closet. I lived in Alan Cage's closet. It was a walk-in closet. There was Sib, Walter, and Alan Cage, and I got to sing backup songs on Start Today. Incredible hardcore record classic, and then that song called Cats and Dogs. Thou shalt not kill, and that really just... I mean, they would listen to Meat is Murder, like, uh, Smith's record in the house. But I didn't really need a lot of meat growing up. My mom had like her amazing meatloaf. That was the same thing she pushed every week, some actually dried meatloaf. Uh, I had fish sticks once in the microwave. There was really not a lot of meat in my house, no steaks. We couldn't afford that. So when I got to New York and got into the animal rights stuff and then living with Gorilla Biscuits, I was like... It was just no brain. It was just, it's all my friends, and this is what we're doing. We have like the PETA videos at the punk shows and the pamphlets. It was just like... It was great. And I stuck with that too, since then, man.

• 27:00Rich Roll?

  Right. So it was vegetarian for a while, though, right? The full vegan thing came much later?

• 27:05Toby Morse?

  A little bit later, yeah. It's pretty brutal, like, wearing canvas shoes in Manhattan.

• 27:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Toby Morse?

  Like, through the blizzards and stuff, like, all the sacrifices I've done for the cows and stuff, like, they probably appreciate it.

• 27:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there wasn't, there's not, the, the vegan fashion thing wasn't online yet, you know?

• 27:19Toby Morse?

  Vans were Converse in the winter.

• 27:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 27:21Toby Morse?

  But yeah, I just, I was part of the whole movement and, like, uh, with Shelter and these other bands and... Just stuck with it, man.

• 27:27Rich Roll?

  Hmm. It's interesting how the punk world and the animal rights activism world like overlap. We were both at an event last week.

• 27:37Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Rich Roll?

  To support Maggie Baird's Support and Feed nonprofit initiative. For those that don't recall, she was on the podcast. She's Phineas and Billie Eilish's mom.

• 27:48Toby Morse?

  Amazing family.

• 27:49Rich Roll?

  She's created this amazing organization where they're providing plant-based meals to underprivileged neighborhoods. And I think even on like, I've noticed, I don't know if you've seen this, like if you order Uber Eats or Postmates, sometimes when you're checking out, they're like, do you want to support? And like, it'll say like, do you want to throw a couple of dollars at Support and Feed?

• 28:07Toby Morse?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 28:08Rich Roll?

  Like that pops up, which is cool.

• 28:09Toby Morse?

  That's awesome.

• 28:09Rich Roll?

  And I know they show up at all of Billie and Phineas's shows.

• 28:14Toby Morse?

  Concerts and stuff.

• 28:14Rich Roll?

  To provide meals, et cetera.

• 28:16Toby Morse?

  They did Coldplay too in Paramore this year.

• 28:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that was huge, right?

• 28:19Toby Morse?

  It's huge, man, yeah. It's so awesome.

• 28:22Rich Roll?

  But I'm bringing that up because at that event, there's like, like, there's Moby. Like, there's a, you know, like that, he comes from the same world, that punk world, that straight edge world. So that's just a really interesting, like, match of, of subcultures.

• 28:39Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 28:39Rich Roll?

  That unite around this issue.

• 28:41Toby Morse?

  Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like, obviously The Smiths, but then I feel like punk rock and hardcore was some of the first bands, like, even in England too as well, like, really singing about animal rights back then. You know, putting in their music. And then Karius One as well, Dead Prez and other, other artists. But yeah, for me, I was into that world. So I felt like these were the only bands singing about it. I'm sure there were more, but it was really like a big part of the movement.

• 29:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Toby Morse?

  For sure, animal rights.

• 29:06Rich Roll?

  Well, the straight edge movement has a lot, seems to have a lot in common with the early days of hip hop.

• 29:12Toby Morse?

  Hmm.

• 29:13Rich Roll?

  I don't know about now.

• 29:15Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Rich Roll?

  How you think about that? But you're kind of a music historian.

• 29:18Toby Morse?

  Really, like Public Enemy and stuff like that?

• 29:20Rich Roll?

  You're a big hip hop guy, too, right?

• 29:21Toby Morse?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like against the grain, kind of rebellious kind of music and singing about things that people, you know, stuff like that.

• 29:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:27Toby Morse?

  Public Enemy. Yeah, Boogie Down Productions, Ted Perez, there was so many artists back then that were singing about things like this conscious way of living and stuff, you know? It wasn't just what everybody else was singing about, yeah, for sure. Even more now, there's so many vegan hip-hop artists and drug-free artists talking about that in their music. It's really awesome to see.

• 29:47Rich Roll?

  Well, there's certainly like a whole new generation of young musicians who like care about well-being in a way that like would have been totally bizarre, you know, not too long ago, right? Like, you know, even like, you know, people like big hitmakers like Mike Posner, you're like, he just wants to talk about sprouting and like his gold, you know, like his gold plunging and stuff like that.

• 30:07Toby Morse?

  It's so cool, though.

• 30:08Rich Roll?

  It is, it's great. You know, like, like, how do we live well? How do we live fully embodied? How do we self-actualize as artists as opposed to self-immolate and like self-destruct?

• 30:19Toby Morse?

  Yeah, and I definitely feel like we said a few minutes ago, like Billy's a big, big part of that, like with her platform and having like vegan Nikes coming out, vegan Gucci and just all these different things she's trying to change and spread awareness to use her platform. There's not many artists that are that big that use their platform for good, for the planet, you know what I mean? It's amazing.

• 30:38Rich Roll?

  It's

• 30:38Toby Morse?

  Huge role model.

• 30:39Rich Roll?

  Powerful.

• 30:40Toby Morse?

  For kids.

• 30:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah. She is a powerful creator.

• 30:44Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 30:45Rich Roll?

  That young lady.

• 30:46Toby Morse?

  And it's awesome, you know? It's a family, too.

• 30:48Rich Roll?

  It is cool, like what Patrick and Maggie, you know, did with their family and these two beautiful artists that are their children who they still like, they go, they go on tour with them still, right?

• 30:58Toby Morse?

  Yep, still travel with them. And the dad rolls with the crew, too.

• 31:01Rich Roll?

  The unit is like so tight. They support each other. And like what Billy has matured into and like Phineas winning Grammys, like it's and, and, and recognizing like the power that they wield with their platform and then leveraging that to do good things for the things that they care about is, is really, you know, inspirational.

• 31:20Toby Morse?

  There's not many artists I can really think about actually do that, that level at this point. Yeah, yeah. It's awesome.

• 31:30Rich Roll?

  Let's talk about your journey with well-being.

• 31:33Toby Morse?

  Okay.

• 31:34Rich Roll?

  So, when we first met, you're a generally healthy guy, eating plant-based and all that kind of stuff, but at some point, you decided you needed to level up and enter a whole new world of stuff that you've been exploring.

• 31:49Toby Morse?

  I know.

• 31:50Rich Roll?

  Including running, right?

• 31:51Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 31:52Rich Roll?

  You showed up in your ons, like you're all about running. I'd like to think I played a small part in trying to inspire that.

• 31:58Toby Morse?

  100%.

• 31:59Rich Roll?

  But I remember not too long ago, we were at Andrew Huberman's house and I watched you do your first sauna cold plunge there. And now you're like a plunging maniac. Your whole social media is just you in a cold plunge and then the people you have over for the podcast, you make them do the whole thing.

• 32:17Toby Morse?

  Yeah, let's go back to that. So yeah, I did the plunge for the first time at Huberman's house with you, an ice plunge, which is different because I feel like it's two different things. The ice just sitting in there and then the cold plunge actually sprays, puts water on you, you know what I mean? It's like moving on you all the time. And I had to do it in front of you two, who are like the kings of this. I was so scared. I was like trying not to shake, but I did it and it just, I don't know. It was my first time doing it. It felt amazing, man. I just, I don't know what it was, but I've been seeing you guys do it for a while and you're a big inspiration, obviously. Yeah, and Josh has like his own one too and Huberman. And so I did that and I got obsessed with it. You know, I just set a goal that like, I'm gonna sell my car. I'm gonna get my sauna car and then I'm gonna build this thing in my backyard

• 33:01Toby Morse?

  with the plunge and the sauna. And I did it, man. It took like a while, but like now it's my everyday. I love it. It's a game changer. And then I started running more, my friend Alex as well, running and my friend Hakim.

• 33:14Toby Morse?

  Thank you. I met him through you as well. And so yeah, we just started running and just getting more serious about it and doing weight training to balance just running and just, yeah, I'm upset. I love it. I want to do my first half marathon soon. And actually do a marathon next year, I hope.

• 33:29Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 33:30Toby Morse?

  Yeah. You're a big inspiration on that, man. I ran here and there, you know?

• 33:33Rich Roll?

  I mean, I think it's... Listen, you sold your car so you could make that dream a reality for yourself. And I remember you having like some discomfort around like doing something for yourself. You're like, it felt indulgent to, to spend a bunch of money on something for your own well-being or happiness, right? And so I think that you have, you know, earned the right to, to have that. And you certainly like, listen, it's not like it just lies fallow in your backyard. Like you're in it all the time. And I think it's improved your life to have that. So I hope that you feel good about investing in yourself that way.

• 34:11Toby Morse?

  At first I felt, yeah, the guilt and the thing about it, but now I'm just like, no, I love it. I sleep better, just everything about it's incredible, man. And I'm so crazy, like I dream a plunge, yes, I clean it once a month. I keep everything spotless. I'm a freak about it. I love it. I have my gym in my garage. It's just, it's perfect, dude. I feel way better.

• 34:30Rich Roll?

  And so, so for somebody who's never done that before, like what is the difference? Like, I feel like you're, you have a lot of energy.

• 34:36Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 34:37Rich Roll?

  Maybe it's hard for you to go to sleep at night. Like you're just, you're spinning, right? Like, I just know, like if I do like that kind of, you know, uh, protocol like in the late afternoon or, or early evening, like I just, I just, it calms me down. I sleep better at night. I just feel better in my body. There's definitely like an antidepressant aspect to it.

• 34:59Toby Morse?

  For sure. Yeah, and I feel like going in the plunge is the only thing that keeps me calm. It's so crazy because I've seen so many people have different reactions trying it for the first time, like jumping out, screaming and stuff, but I could just get in there and chill to the point where I did like 13 minutes once.

• 35:14Rich Roll?

  Did you?

• 35:14Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I'm like, yeah.

• 35:15Rich Roll?

  You set it, where do you, what do you set the temp at?

• 35:17Toby Morse?

  39.

• 35:18Rich Roll?

  You do?

• 35:19Toby Morse?

  Uh huh.

• 35:19Rich Roll?

  So all the way?

• 35:20Toby Morse?

  All the way. And I think somebody hit me up, I don't know if it was Josh or Andrew, somebody said, I'd say, you need to chill. I see what you're doing. I've done that before, like you're pushing yourself.

• 35:28Rich Roll?

  It's not about how long you do.

• 35:29Toby Morse?

  Yeah, but I did that for myself because I want to see how long I could do it. But I don't do that no more. And now I do a couple of times, every time I do it. But yeah, it keeps me calm. I love it. I zone out, put some Sinead O'Connor on, that's like my go-to music. I just zone out there. I love it.

• 35:42Rich Roll?

  You're wearing a Sinead O'Connor hoodie right now.

• 35:45Toby Morse?

  One of my favorites.

• 35:45Rich Roll?

  Orange for Halloween.

• 35:46Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I had to represent.

• 35:47Rich Roll?

  What is the whole Sinead O'Connor thing?

• 35:50Toby Morse?

  I just feel like she's one of the most punk rock artists that was in the pop world. Um, things she sang about and spoke about, a lot of it came true. Um, she was canceled before cancel culture for speaking her mind, everything that happened became true, they never brought her back. It's a really sad story. Um, the documentary she has out now is incredible. Um, when they weren't putting hip hop as a genre, I think it was on the Grammys, she did a Public Enemy logo on the side of her head.

• 36:15Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:16Toby Morse?

  Cause Public Enemy boycotted the show as well. Um, just her hip hop and her um, reggae roots and just her story, man, just like shaving her head, not trying to be like stereotypical pop star, not trying to be pretty. Um, I just think she's a badass, man. And like, I've, I've been repping her for years. I have her eyes tattooed in the back of my legs for like 20 years. And um, it was just really sad, especially with that doc had just come out and then she passed.

• 36:41Rich Roll?

  I know, I haven't seen it yet.

• 36:42Toby Morse?

  Her son had just passed too.

• 36:43Rich Roll?

  Julie watched it, she was, she was very moved by it and you know, she, she was, it's hard to understand like how courageous she was at that time.

• 36:54Toby Morse?

  Talk about using your platform and your voice.

• 36:55Rich Roll?

  And she got annihilated.

• 36:56Toby Morse?

  Nihilated. Talk about, imagine doing like somebody at like a Billy's uh, how, right now speaking about stuff like that too. She was doing that, she was the biggest she's ever was.

• 37:06Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:06Toby Morse?

  It's crazy, man. Ripping up the post picture, all that stuff, just like crazy, man.

• 37:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:12Toby Morse?

  Super punk, did not give a shit about getting canceled or anything. I mean, maybe she did later on in life, I'm not sure, but just seeing like how it ended and stuff, it's just, and her son passing and stuff like a year ago. I was, I was wrecked by this, man. Like I didn't, I was wrecked by it because I just, I listen to her all the time still, you know? And uh, I had done this post where I was like bucket list, Sinead O'Connor, I did a post about people were damning me from Ireland, I work at a record label, people were trying to help me like track her down for like a minute and then three months later like she passed.

• 37:43Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 37:44Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I just thought she was amazing.

• 37:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know that, that, that was a, like your ultimate dream podcast guest, right?

• 37:50Toby Morse?

  But I didn't know where she was, was the point where it was on the news, she was in a hotel in New Jersey or something like, I was always trying to keep tabs on her, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, I just thought she was so, and then the doc came out, I was like, wow, man, this is. Beautiful and really sad, you know? So yeah, I think she's one of the most punk rock, uh, probably female artists that we'll see, that we've seen. And in the spotlight, too.

• 38:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 38:12Toby Morse?

  So yeah, man, rest in peace, Sinead.

• 38:14Rich Roll?

  Um, back to the, the protocol.

• 38:17Toby Morse?

  Let's go.

• 38:18Rich Roll?

  The Toby Protocol. Uh, in addition to, to the sauna and the plunge and the running and all of that, like you also like really up level your nutrition, like you've been plant-based forever, but there's being plant-based and then there's like really being intentional about being a healthy plant-based person. And those, that's a world of difference.

• 38:35Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I went like, um, gluten-free like a year and a half ago. I thought being vegan would, would means, um, not to get real personal, but going to the bathroom all the time and having a weird stomach and feeling bloated and I, uh, did an 18-day juice cleanse and started reintroducing stuff to my body. And the gluten wasn't cutting it. You know, the fake meats, all that stuff, and I just cut it out and I, it changed everything. My wife cannot believe it, like, I'm gonna be honest with you, I used to carry toilet paper in my pocket. I had a serious stomach issues, all had, uh, Modi Maadi on me, uh, when I travel. The craziest life of stomach issues, I never got tested for it. And maybe, I mean, maybe it's, maybe it's something more than that, but ever since I cut the gluten out, everything's normal, I'm not bloated no more, I feel lighter, I eat totally way cleaner.

• 39:19Toby Morse?

  I fed it greens just every day, just everything, like, I just, strictly healthy.

• 39:23Rich Roll?

  You look good, man. Like, how are you, 52?

• 39:25Toby Morse?

  53.

• 39:26Rich Roll?

  53.

• 39:27Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 39:27Rich Roll?

  Like, your skin looks good.

• 39:28Toby Morse?

  Thank you, man.

• 39:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man. It's working, right?

• 39:32Toby Morse?

  I mean, it's the diet and the lifestyle, sure, and the sauna and all, that's good for your skin, too, yeah.

• 39:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 39:36Toby Morse?

  Plunge.

• 39:37Rich Roll?

  How old were you the, the last time you had meat?

• 39:41Toby Morse?

  Probably 1987.

• 39:42Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 39:44Toby Morse?

  I don't know what it, what it could have been, but something, yeah, like before, I moved to New York for sure. Cause I were, I, I worked at Subway. I worked at Subway before I needed to, I wasn't eating meat then, though, but, um, yeah, it's crazy.

• 39:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's OG status, 87.

• 40:00Toby Morse?

  I actually worked at Subway, wait, wait, let me rewind this. I went to New York and I came back for like a summer, for some reason. And my first tattoo is a Gorilla Biscuits tattoo, and it says, "Meat is Murder." And I got a job at Subway. I was like eighteen or nineteen and they made me, they ordered me a long sleeve Subway shirt. Because they didn't want me promoting vegetarianism at Subway.

• 40:20Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 40:21Toby Morse?

  So I was the only person with a long sleeve, so this is a true story, with a long sleeve Subway shirt to cover my meat is murder tattoo. And I hate, I worked for a couple of months. I was like touching the meat and so I was like, I can't do this like.

• 40:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Toby Morse?

  Then I went to landscaping or something, yeah.

• 40:34Rich Roll?

  So when people say, how do you get your protein or how do you make it work or, you know, you're gonna wither away and all that kinda stuff like? How do you?

• 40:41Toby Morse?

  Just beans and rice.

• 40:42Rich Roll?

  How do you, how do you like, but you must get asked that a lot as somebody who's notable and, you know? Even people who are curious who just honestly don't know the answer to that.

• 40:52Toby Morse?

  I mean, there's supplements, there's everything you can do. Now in twenty twenty-three, there's, there shouldn't even be a question. Do you know what I mean? Plant-based is so like popular and everywhere. It's like. You just, people, you can just Google what you need to get, but I'm, I'm, I like, I'm quinoa, I'm kale, I'm beans, I'm tofu, a lot of tofu. Um, yeah, vegetables, greens, I'm always doing juice cleanse, nuts. Um, I told you I was, I'm in molasses now because molasses have this crazy high iron and B12. Which I never knew. Did you know that about molasses?

• 41:22Rich Roll?

  No, I didn't know that.

• 41:23Toby Morse?

  I mean, not the tastiest things, but.

• 41:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I can't, I, I, I couldn't tell you like the last time I had molasses.

• 41:31Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 41:31Rich Roll?

  Black.

• 41:31Toby Morse?

  I've probably never had them till now.

• 41:33Rich Roll?

  Blackstrap molasses?

• 41:34Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 41:35Rich Roll?

  That, where do you even get it?

• 41:36Toby Morse?

  Just at the grocery store.

• 41:37Rich Roll?

  You go to the, like, the whole, the, like, natural foods, like macrobiotic store?

• 41:41Toby Morse?

  It's just organic molasses, yeah.

• 41:43Rich Roll?

  Huh.

• 41:43Toby Morse?

  Um, but I, I tried to do so many supplements that, that the greens helps a lot. Um.

• 41:48Rich Roll?

  And what do you do when you're on tour and traveling?

• 41:51Toby Morse?

  I bring the greens in packs. Um, this Happy Cow, thank you Happy Cow, because every city, state, country, you can find a vegan or vegetarian. Restaurant. Whoever created Happy Cow should get crazy award.

• 42:02Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 42:03Toby Morse?

  It's a game changer.

• 42:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I use that every time I travel.

• 42:05Toby Morse?

  Um, yeah, there's, there's restaurants in every city, every, everywhere, man, like Hungary, Striving, Poland, Berlin's the Mecca. Like going to Europe is incredible.

• 42:14Rich Roll?

  Berlin is the vegan capital of the universe. They have vegan grocery stores.

• 42:18Toby Morse?

  Yeah, vegans.

• 42:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:19Toby Morse?

  Vegans. It's so good. Grocery shop up top and you at the bottom. I mean, it's just a different world. People shouldn't, I mean, now it's just like. That question's not really been asked in a long time, maybe, but yeah, I mean, that's people's main concern. Iron, just all this stuff. It's like, do you take supplements too?

• 42:36Rich Roll?

  I take Athletic Greens and I do supplement. I think, I think supplements have their place, responsible supplementation. And I think even, no matter how well you're eating, you know, everybody has certain levels of deficiencies. All you have to do is get a blood test. If you do a broad enough panel, you'll realize you're low, you're going to be lower in some areas and higher in others. And especially as you get older, I think it's, you know, I think there's, you know, a lot of good reasons to do that. And I think people will use that to say, well, your diet must be insufficient or incomplete if you're supplementing. But I don't care what diet you're on. Like, I think supplementation has, has its place. Not as a replacement for

• 43:17Rich Roll?

  trying to get your nutrients. Those should come from the foods that you eat. But, you know, we don't all eat perfectly every single day. And, you know, if you want to be optimal, then I think that, you know, having your blood work done regularly and paying attention to where you're lacking and addressing that is, you know, an easy fix.

• 43:37Toby Morse?

  Yeah, the greens definitely help. It's a game changer. In the morning, just have that and then know that just in case that day you don't get them in.

• 43:42Rich Roll?

  Right. Shout out Athletic Greens. This is like a sponsor fest. Shout out Athletic Greens, shout out Momentus, shout out Plunge, you know, the Cold Plunge. Shout out Ryan. We both have our plunges from him. Great partner for us. And I know-

• 43:58Toby Morse?

  But these are all things that help your life.

• 43:59Rich Roll?

  For you. And I came and did your podcast with him. So lots of love here, all the way around.

• 44:04Toby Morse?

  But these, but these are products that are like, life-changing.

• 44:07Rich Roll?

  They're good products. It's sort of like, I, I, that's why they're sponsors of the show.

• 44:11Toby Morse?

  Of course.

• 44:11Rich Roll?

  You know, it's not like, uh, just a thing. It's like, I, you know, like yourself, I'm very conscious of the partners that we work with. And I want them to be things that I'm excited about and that I use.

• 44:23Toby Morse?

  For sure. And also for people that can't afford a plunge, like a cold shower or just putting ice in your bath. And I see people on tour creating their own like buckets that they're going in after stage with a trash bag and ice. Like, whatever works, man. That's your DIY.

• 44:36Rich Roll?

  When you go, when you, like, bands are doing that backstage?

• 44:39Toby Morse?

  Yes, yes.

• 44:40Rich Roll?

  Who is I talking to?

• 44:41Toby Morse?

  Oh, Travis got a little ice thing he does before and after the show.

• 44:44Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 44:45Toby Morse?

  But you can get these ones that are flattable and they come on tour and stuff?

• 44:48Rich Roll?

  So does Travis have like a plunge?

• 44:50Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I got my plunge.

• 44:51Rich Roll?

  Part of his rider? That travels with him when he's when he's playing?

• 44:54Toby Morse?

  It's a portable thing though, for sure. Yeah.

• 44:56Rich Roll?

  That's interesting.

• 44:57Toby Morse?

  I think a lot of bands are doing that.

• 44:58Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 44:59Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 45:00Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I had a band the other day and guys like, yeah, we do it all the time. There's a lot of bands now that are going to like spas during the day and doing the sauna and the cold plunge. It's crazy. Everybody's being so conscious of like mental health and everything and physical and because on tour, it's not the most glamorous thing, man. You're like grinding, you're getting no sleep. Like when I go on tour, this LA fantasy diet is out the window. Like it's a survival for me. Whatever I can get each day and get that sleep. It's so important. And the fact that younger bands are like focused on that, even if it's a trend that they're doing the ice and the sauna. It's great. You know what I mean? Because this has been a long journey, like Yeah. living this way and playing music, jumping around and stuff.

• 45:38Rich Roll?

  It's cool. I mean, I think the, you know, I can't imagine being on the road and being in a bus and city to city to city and getting in at weird hours.

• 45:45Toby Morse?

  Think about your van.

• 45:46Rich Roll?

  Having your sleep disrupted. Yeah, van like

• 45:48Toby Morse?

  I'm in a van.

• 45:49Rich Roll?

  For myself, when I'm traveling a fair amount and I arrive somewhere new and it's late, like it's already past dinnertime. Like pretty much everything's closed. And so what do I do? I open up like I see what's on the, at the hotel on the, you know, the room service is terrible. Then I open up Postmates or Uber Eats or whatever. And, and the problem is that there are options, but they're generally like

• 46:12Toby Morse?

  Closed.

• 46:13Rich Roll?

  Well, the stuff that's open are like vegan, like cheeseburgers and fries. It's like, so it's junk food. You know what I mean? Like you can get, you can eat quote unquote vegan, but you might as well go to Wendy's or McDonald's.

• 46:25Toby Morse?

  But we're not in LA, so it's just, you know what I mean?

• 46:27Rich Roll?

  I know. And so it's like, well, I have to eat and I end up eating shitty food more than I would care to admit.

• 46:32Toby Morse?

  We got into DC like one in the morning, like two weeks ago, and we were starving. We sat in the lobby and we ordered Domino's pizza and I had a gluten free, cheeseless pizza like at two in the morning.

• 46:43Rich Roll?

  It's basically just gluten free bread.

• 46:45Toby Morse?

  It was so brutal.

• 46:46Rich Roll?

  With like red sauce on it or something?

• 46:47Toby Morse?

  Drinking like a Coca Cola. I'm like, what am I doing? Like this was like two in the morning. I would never do that here, but I was starving. I woke up the next day, I feel like all guilty and weird about it. I'm like, gonna survive, man. Gonna eat though. It's so important though.

• 46:59Rich Roll?

  You mentioned mental health. You're the PMA guy, just born and bred positive. I don't know how, how that works.

• 47:07Toby Morse?

  Me either. I don't either, man.

• 47:08Rich Roll?

  You know, it's crazy. And, and you know, I opened up this podcast by saying that, that, you know, lots happened since we first talked and, you know, four years ago. The world was very different and now we're in, you know, we're on the other side of a lot of insanity. And now there's a whole new level of insanity, especially on social media channels, the discourse, a lot of acrimony, a lot of shouting and yelling and signaling to in-groups and all of that.

• 47:36Toby Morse?

  It's dark.

• 47:38Rich Roll?

  As good as my life is and as positive as my disposition is and as grateful as I am to have the life that I have, I find myself struggling to remain positive about the broader world and kind of what I'm noticing transpire. And that's not specific to any particular issue, just in general, like when you log on to whatever, you know, social media platform of your choice, I have to like log off right away. Like I just, I literally start to get depressed as I scroll and kind of see how people are interacting with each other.

• 48:15Toby Morse?

  It is depressing.

• 48:16Rich Roll?

  So how do you do that? And like, how do you maintain that positivity?

• 48:20Toby Morse?

  I think I live in a bubble a lot of the times as far as like what's happening on the world, that stuff I can't control or fix. Even if I post about something, is that really gonna help? Could it help or should I do it or not do it? And just seeing how the world is, and I do feel, and that's the thing that makes me sad is stuff that I can't fix or can't help. That I feel the world's pain, especially with things going on the past couple of years, shit the past for a long time, especially now though. And like, yeah, maybe I just scroll by and look at it or read about it. I got deep into it the other day about what's going on now and it was really heaven. I've been talking to a lot of my friends about it who come from there and different places in the world and just trying to understand it. And yeah, it's hard because the world is fucked and the world is a negative, dark place.

• 49:01Toby Morse?

  And I do my best to be a good person in this world and try to help people and inspire people and live a good life.

• 49:12Toby Morse?

  You want the whole world to be like that too and be conscious of how they treat people. It is frustrating. Yeah, it's hard. Now I get dark about it. Yeah, it's just, it's hard to like scroll through that things because social media is a dark place and if you get on that spiral on there and people fighting in the streets, you see so much anger right now and violence and this tension since coming out of the pandemic, it seems like it's gotten even more magnified with so, everything is magnified from social media. If there was no social media, I think the past couple of years would be way less stressful than it ended up being. It's just everything's on there in your face all day long. You know, especially when we had a president who was on Twitter talking crazy shit. Like it was just a crazy time. Then now what's happening in the world, it's like, like what can we do?

• 49:54Toby Morse?

  I mean, we can talk about, we can get people on the podcast to talk about things about it or who are living there or being part of things. But yeah, it's frustrating and I do get dark and I do, maybe that's when I go for a run or maybe I um, sometimes I'll just zone out and I'll put my phone away when we look at it. Cause it's hard to digest it all. Especially when you feel like kind of powerless. And we have these platforms to talk about it and try to help things, but like, if you're not really there in the midst of it, in the mix, do you know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't know. It's hard, man. I guess I do kinda um, I know about things. I try to keep my ear to what's happening in the world. At the same time, I kinda just keep it moving my zone and having these amazing conversations with people and you know.

• 50:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean,

• 50:35Toby Morse?

  it's hard, man.

• 50:35Rich Roll?

  You, you mean, you truly are one of the most positive people in my life. And you know, I've watched you in the world like interact with people. Everybody you meet, you meet with love, compassion, non judgment. Um, you meet people where they're at, like you like all different kinds of people. Especially like when it comes to music where it's like you're only allowed to like this kind or that kind, like you like everything. You love Coldplay, like you like to, you know, all the bands that are not supposed to be cool. Like you're the first person to say like, you know, these guys are amazing or whatever. Like there's just a really beautiful kind of welcoming um, energy that you have. Uh, and I, you know, it's, it's clear that like you've just been a fantastic dad, like.

• 51:21Rich Roll?

  I look at Max, uh, this kid walks into a room and just owns it like he's so like charismatic and sure of himself in, in a healthy way. Like he knows who he is. He'll look you in the eye. He'll talk, he talks to everybody. He's not intimidated by anyone. Um, and he just has this like really kind of joyful spirit about him as well. Uh, and I was like, man, you guys did a good job.

• 51:47Toby Morse?

  Thank you, man.

• 51:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 51:48Toby Morse?

  I mean, yeah, I mean, communication is key. Uh, my son traveled with us since he was very, very young. Um, we've always had an open relationship with my son, talking about everything he wanted to talk about and, uh, unconditional love and, uh, probably, probably, you know, for me, I didn't grow up with a dad, so, um, everything was new to me, just learning along the way and stuff. And, uh, my wife's an incredible mother. And, uh, yeah, he's just a very well-rounded, open-minded. He's seen, he's been all around the world, seen different cultures, you know? He's been everywhere. And, uh, I grew up around a lot of awesome musicians and people and I'm very lucky, man, especially a kid growing up in Hollywood, too.

• 52:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know.

• 52:24Toby Morse?

  There's so many different things, Temptations, there's all kinds of stuff.

• 52:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, all around, right? All around. Like he went to a big high school, too. Like it could have gone any number of different ways.

• 52:34Toby Morse?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's true. He went to Larchmont for a while, then he went to Hamilton High, which is a great school, music program. The guys at Interrupters went there, the three brothers.

• 52:42Rich Roll?

  They have like a whole, like sort of recording studio. I think that high school has its own label.

• 52:47Toby Morse?

  Yeah, yeah, they do. Yeah, my son's band, okay, my son's band, Wren, was on that record label. It was signed to the label. And then one of the students was their manager at the school.

• 52:56Rich Roll?

  That's crazy.

• 52:56Toby Morse?

  There's like an Adidas Sound Lab there or something?

• 52:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking of.

• 52:59Toby Morse?

  Yeah. So, yeah, it's a really great school. He, he learned how to play the piano really well. He knows how to read music. It was a really wonderful move. He was kind of sheltered in the Larchmont world and he's like, I want to go. He basically said, eighth grade, I want to go to a school where there's bullies and lockers. That's what he wanted. So, he went to a real school.

• 53:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, Hamilton, Hamilton is that, you know? Like, that's a big place, you know?

• 53:19Toby Morse?

  It's a really big campus, man. There's kids from all around the whole city that would go there and stuff and. Yeah, man. Really happy. He's a really good kid, man.

• 53:26Rich Roll?

  And how did he end up in the band? Like, what is it? Like, I know he's like modeling. He wants to be, is he's pursuing acting?

• 53:32Toby Morse?

  Yeah, he's doing all that, yeah. So the band just happened. I mean, my, uh, he would play one song with us a really long time. He played a song called "Nothing to Prove." He'd come up on stage since he was like nine years old. And then, uh, fast forward, my drummer, Todd Friend, shout out to Todd Friend. He had a problem with his shoulder. He had a couple surgeries where it was hard for him to perform. And the timing just happened with my son to jump up and play a gig with us because of that. And, uh, it just continued. It's been continuing since that for like two years now. And we still see my drum. He comes out to the show in New York. He sang a song with us. It's all love. It's, it's, it's perfect, man.

• 54:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 54:08Toby Morse?

  So I don't know how long it's gonna last.

• 54:09Rich Roll?

  Right. You just take it while you can get it, right? Like, what a cool thing to like play music with your, with your son.

• 54:15Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I'm gonna be cool next year. I don't know. You know, he might be like, he might join another band.

• 54:18Rich Roll?

  There's nothing like, there's nothing you can do to be cool for your kid. Doesn't matter. You, you confront like a cool band or whatever. It's still gonna be, you know.

• 54:27Toby Morse?

  We'll always be cool, I hope, you know?

• 54:29Rich Roll?

  No, I mean, you'll be cool with each other, but, um, you always think like, I mean, I can't imagine a cooler dad than you. But like, no matter what you do or who you are, like, your kid is always gonna, on some level, and it's supposed to be this way, like, you're not as cool as you think, you know?

• 54:46Toby Morse?

  Yeah, that's, that's definitely true.

• 54:47Rich Roll?

  And it's meant to be that way.

• 54:48Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 54:49Rich Roll?

  Cause they're the next generation and they got their own ideas about what's cool.

• 54:53Toby Morse?

  He'll check me once in a while on different things. It's stupid or that's cringe or that's silly, something I say.

• 54:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah. What do you do that's cringe to him?

• 55:00Toby Morse?

  I don't know. Maybe, I don't know. He said that to me before, about something or something or, even before if I post something, he's like, "You sure you wanna post that?" But he'll check me on stuff. I like that, though.

• 55:09Rich Roll?

  There is a certain, um, thing when you're that age where, where, you know, most people, like in their early twenties, it's all about like kind of cynicism and irony. Like, nothing's cool. Everything's lame. All of that. And you're a very earnest person. And I feel like Max is pretty earnest. Like, he doesn't strike me as that person who's like, everything sucks or all those bands suck. Like, he's like, you know, he's pretty enthusiastic about.

• 55:34Toby Morse?

  Yeah, he is, man. He has a good life. But you better definitely have that enthusiasm. He's definitely had a a wonderful life. He still lives at home. He's 20 years old. It's awesome.

• 55:43Rich Roll?

  How long is that gonna go for?

• 55:44Toby Morse?

  I don't know, man. There's a lot of kids now, it seems like to be like in this generation, they're still living at home kinda late. It's interesting.

• 55:50Rich Roll?

  It's so expensive.

• 55:51Toby Morse?

  It's so expensive. I don't know where he would live in Los Angeles.

• 55:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, that idea, I mean, our generation, it was like, get out the door, you know? And it doesn't matter if you have to go into debt or run up credit cards, like, you're not staying at home.

• 56:04Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 56:04Rich Roll?

  But to me, that's insane. It's so expensive out there, and I don't want my kids to be running running up a bunch of debt or spending money unnecessarily if they don't have to. Because that then ends up, you know, sort of impinging on the decisions that they can make about their life and the freedoms that they have. And if I can, you know, provide a buffer by just like, you know, hanging, they can hang out at home a little bit longer, I'm more than happy to do it. Well, our boys had moved out, they were living in Echo Park, doing the music thing.

• 56:32Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 56:33Rich Roll?

  And then when the pandemic hit, it's like, don't, don't pay rent in a tiny little apartment that you're stuck in, like, just come home.

• 56:40Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 56:40Rich Roll?

  So they're still home, and that's fine, and they're working and they have their own lives. Um, but I'm not in a rush for them to leave. It's like, stay as long as you want. I don't care. I don't care. I like having them around, like, you know, it's not gonna last forever. They're gonna be gone, they're gonna be gone, and then you're gonna be like, oh, wasn't it great when they were there? Like, I'm trying to enjoy it for everything that it is.

• 57:03Toby Morse?

  Empty house, like, walking by his room, like, it's an empty nest syndrome, that's a real thing.

• 57:06Rich Roll?

  Our two younger ones are both gone now, at school. So it's the older ones that are around.

• 57:12Toby Morse?

  Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's hard.

• 57:14Rich Roll?

  I mean, I'm happy for them.

• 57:15Toby Morse?

  You're an emotional guy, like me too, though.

• 57:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely...

• 57:18Toby Morse?

  I'm super emo, man.

• 57:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 57:20Toby Morse?

  I'll cry anything.

• 57:20Rich Roll?

  I don't know if I'm as emo as you, but I can, I can, I can get pretty emo.

• 57:24Toby Morse?

  But just seeing about him being gone, it's like, freaks me out, dude. Like, I don't... Like, stay as long as you can, like...

• 57:30Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 57:31Toby Morse?

  I mean, I could pay rent where he works right now, it's gonna be possible.

• 57:33Rich Roll?

  You're gonna blink and he's gonna be gone and doing his own thing, and you're gonna be proud of him, but you're gonna miss, you'll, you'll miss that time. So to be able to be present with it and appreciate it for what it is now. Oh, that's incredible. What a gift, you know? Who gets to do that?

• 57:47Toby Morse?

  I know. I'm, I'm very lucky, man, very blessed. I have a very, uh, awesome life and family, man, you know? And friends.

• 58:04Rich Roll?

  The other big thing that's changed in your life is the podcast. I mean, I think you were, you were doing it maybe when, when did you start it? You had just started.

• 58:12Toby Morse?

  Four years ago I started, yeah.

• 58:13Rich Roll?

  It was more of like a side little thing, but it's really become like a, you know, maybe not the main thing that you do, but like one of the big main things that you do in your life.

• 58:21Toby Morse?

  It's a full-time thing for me when I'm home, for sure.

• 58:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it definitely is a much higher priority than it was.

• 58:25Toby Morse?

  For sure, especially I started before the pandemic, so I had banked some episodes. So I'm really lucky and like, I love the conversations, I love doing it, it's very therapeutic. It's inspired me to actually go get therapy for the first time in my life from one of my guests.

• 58:37Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 58:38Toby Morse?

  I go to her therapist, I've never done that, nobody's, my family's been to get therapy. I'm the only person that's going, so.

• 58:44Rich Roll?

  How has that, how has going to therapy impacted you?

• 58:48Toby Morse?

  Um, it's interesting because it's kind of scary when you start like pulling back the layers. And it's like, you're wondering like what you might find, you don't want to find, once you find it, then you know it. Do you know, so I'm like, slowly going back to like through my grandparents and my, my, actually my mom's dad and how he was towards her, just all this stuff about, I have some resentment with my mother. I love my mother, we're close, but just a lot of things with my dad passing and how that all stuff happened after that.

• 59:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 59:17Toby Morse?

  So yeah, it's been really interesting to go. Um, I love the person I go to, it's cool to talk to somebody who doesn't know anything about you and just like spill everything. I was there for like a consultation, I just started spilling it, she's like, wait, wait, wait, I'm just meeting you. I started this, like almost crying, just telling everything.

• 59:32Rich Roll?

  I'm gonna do this, I'm doing it, I'm gonna do it all right now.

• 59:34Toby Morse?

  First time I go this much, she's like, wait, wait, this is a consultation, I don't know if I like you or not. And, um, but now, yeah, I love her, but yeah.

• 59:40Rich Roll?

  Well, I credit you for, for doing that. I think it's, it's easy, like I think you would be somebody who I would imagine might be dismissive of that because you're like, my life's good, I'm a positive guy, I have lots of friends, like I love my wife and I've got, you know, whatever. Like, why do I need to go to therapy? But I also know your backstory well enough to know that there's probably some trauma there.

• 1:00:03Toby Morse?

  For sure.

• 1:00:03Rich Roll?

  But somehow you figured out a way to either compartmentalize it or, you know, however you work through it or however you keep it in a balance to like make your life manageable.

• 1:00:12Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:12Rich Roll?

  And it's scary to say like, well, if I, if I go towards that. That might threaten like the stability of what I've kind of created here.

• 1:00:20Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 1:00:21Rich Roll?

  What would that mean? Like, like suddenly like it could disrupt all of this. And there's no guarantee that you're going to be able to like, find a new way forward and keep everything on the rails.

• 1:00:32Toby Morse?

  Yeah, that's the scary part, like stripping the layers back. You're right. That's the thing that was kind of like tripped me out. Because there's definitely something there with the no closure, my father passing and not going to his funeral and not being allowed to even hear anything about it and thinking for like the next year or two, kept asking my mother when my dad's coming back. We had no closure in that. And I understand my mom didn't want her three young boys to go to her funeral. But for us, my dad just had chest pains, went to the hospital and never came back. That's all I remember. And I think that's probably why I also hate death and have a fear of death my whole life and hospitals. I'm figuring all that shit now. Like I hate the whole concept that we're going to die someday. Like, I want to be here forever with my kid and my family and watch over everybody. Who knows what's going to happen, but like, I was actually texting with Travis about it, just the concept of death and how like,

• 1:01:15Toby Morse?

  I just feel like I want to be here forever. I know it's not going to happen. I have that fear probably since I was a kid with my, worried about if my mom is going to die or my friend's going to die. Like, there's definitely something there, for sure. And then that growing up with no dad and becoming a dad, then all these emotions come out. Like when you become a dad, it's like, it's a life changer. You know what I mean? Things that I would be upset or cry about or, I, I didn't want to see any violent movies anymore. I loved violent shit growing up. I could care less about that when I became a dad. Then you have this whole world you have to put this child into that you don't own, but you make and you raise and he goes out there. Just all this shit. It's just like, lot of shit in my childhood for sure. I probably, um, covered up and thought I got it out with songs. There were a lot of songs about my dad, him passing, a lot of songs about my life. And I thought that maybe that was some therapy for me, but

• 1:02:00Toby Morse?

  it's obviously not, for sure. You know, once you start talking about it.

• 1:02:03Rich Roll?

  Therapeutic aspect to that, like you're trying to work it out for yourself.

• 1:02:08Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Rich Roll?

  And you mentioned like this, you know, lingering resentment with your mom. And I would imagine perhaps the original resentment stemming from her not being transparent about what was going on with your dad.

• 1:02:19Toby Morse?

  For sure.

• 1:02:20Rich Roll?

  Then understanding like she was doing what she thought was in your best interest by not sharing, you know, not sharing all of the information. Like, I'm sure she thought she was protecting you.

• 1:02:29Toby Morse?

  Totally. I know that now as an adult and as a parent myself too, for sure. I probably do the same thing. You know, but then every, every, every man that tried to marry my mom, after that, we run him out of the house. Like, nobody was good enough, like my dad, so me and my brothers would run every boyfriend she had out. And she never got married with it again. That was her one true love. It's crazy, man.

• 1:02:49Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:50Toby Morse?

  That's a whole other podcast, but yeah, definitely therapy is digging deep, you know what I mean? Like, it's interesting. I was always scared of it. I thought it was like silly, but like, I think it's awesome. And so many people are like so comfortable talking about it now. It's like cool to go to therapy and talk about your issues and your problems. As opposed to back in the day, like keep everything in, be tough, hold it in, and now don't show any, uh, weakness, do you know?

• 1:03:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, it always ends up coming out in a negative way, in a bad way, if you do that.

• 1:03:17Toby Morse?

  If it was snap. Yeah, I'm, I'm very, so that podcast, yeah, it just definitely was very therapeutic in many ways.

• 1:03:23Rich Roll?

  And you just had, uh, Travis Barker on, like that just dropped today, right? We're recording this, what is it, October 30th today?

• 1:03:30Toby Morse?

  Probably my biggest episode will be, yeah.

• 1:03:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I noticed it's already getting picked up by news outlets and stuff like that.

• 1:03:38Toby Morse?

  It's crazy because I've known him for so long and he does, he hates podcasts. He's done yours and Rogue and several others, but not many. And like, he's not really the talkative kind of guy, but we know each other. So it was really great. I really got to know him more and I know him for like, you think you know these people for like 20 years and you sit down with them or talk to them, like, you get deep. And that's what I love about the podcast is like reconnecting with friends or actually people that I maybe had, uh, uh, preconceived notions about what I thought they really liked and you sit down like, oh my God, this guy's awesome. I've heard these stories about you your whole life and you really this, you're fucking cool. That's what I love about it too, like being shocked by like, how these people really are, once you sit down with them. Meeting them at a show or backstage is so different, playing with them, but like when they come sit down face to face, it's incredible, man.

• 1:04:21Toby Morse?

  It's like, so the Travis, I'm so proud of it because we got really deep. We talk about things you usually really talk about and. I'm really, really, and he hit me up to tell how proud he was and stoked on it and um cause he's kind of doing the circuit now with the new, with the new album out, but like he's really nice, man. I love you.

• 1:04:37Rich Roll?

  He's a, he's a really special person and a very thoughtful, quiet, kind of introverted, sensitive guy in a way that, that is surprising if you only know him through kind of like celebrity tabloid journalism, you know, you see what he looks like and the kind of world in which he operates and this rock star kind of like veneer that, you know, is who he is on some level on the outside, um, but

• 1:05:11Rich Roll?

  he's not that at all, really. Like, he's, he's such a sweet, thoughtful person and I said to you before the podcast, like, I think he should do more podcasts because, and I'm sure there's a trust thing there, like, he's only gonna do it when it feels right to him and he knows someone like yourself, um, but I think that format allows him to show who he really is and, and I think shifts people's perspective of what kind of person he is.

• 1:05:40Toby Morse?

  Hundred percent. He's been the same person since I met him over 20 years ago, the exact same person, soft spoken, sweet human, supported by nonprofit financially and all kinds of ways, supported my son's drum in my band, um, amazing father, um, a really caring person and like, yeah, he's in a massive band, you know, he's, he's in the world he's in now, but when we hang out, we have the same conversations about the same stuff, you know what I mean? It's the exact same person, like, he's maintained it just to be that through all, he may look different or dress different or whatever, but he's still Travis, you know, it's like, but people have, people, especially with the internet, people just want to like have these things about people, they think that like, everything you post is a hundred percent you, that could have been a moment or a feeling

• 1:06:24Toby Morse?

  in that, in that second, you just followed your heart and post, people just think that everything on there is like all of you and it's not, and everything written about you is true and everything is that and like, it's like, unless you really know somebody, it's like. You're never really gonna know them. And we're lucky that we got, we do know them like that. And I'm glad I had the platform to have a conversation with that. So people, some of the comments are like, I don't know if I'm listening to this, like this blah, blah, blah. I'm like, listen to it. This is a conversation, like, listen to a person, what they have to say. Not just their music and not just the tabloids and the headlines that people were so like, excited to like see a headline or a link about somewhere, a photo and like jump to conclusions about people. That's what the internet really kinda did, I think, to like people's reputations or musicians or artists or,

• 1:07:06Toby Morse?

  I don't know, I feel like people think that they really know you, they can get inside your life by something you post.

• 1:07:11Rich Roll?

  Well, it's interesting because when we were growing up, all you had to go on was like the liner notes and the album art. And then you would just fantasize or use your imagination to try to dream, you know, who these people were, what they were like.

• 1:07:25Toby Morse?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:07:25Rich Roll?

  And then maybe, you know, months later or a year later, there's an article in Spin Magazine or whatever, you know, kind of publication where you would be like, oh my God, I'm gonna read it, you know, and that was it.

• 1:07:37Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Rich Roll?

  And so we were left to our own imagination.

• 1:07:40Toby Morse?

  I love that, the mysteriousness.

• 1:07:41Rich Roll?

  But there's, there was a myth building to that also, where you built these people up to be, you know, people that they probably weren't, because you're projecting this idea onto them, right?

• 1:07:50Toby Morse?

  That's true too.

• 1:07:51Rich Roll?

  And then there's the paparazzi kind of era where everything's exploitive.

• 1:07:57Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:57Rich Roll?

  But I feel like mediums like podcasting bring that all the way back around and put the artist more in charge of, you know, basically sharing who they are. Like you can, you can either say, you could be an artist who says, I'm not doing anything and I want people to just not know who I am and my art speak for itself.

• 1:08:16Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:16Rich Roll?

  Or you can go on a podcast and talk to somebody for three hours.

• 1:08:19Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:20Rich Roll?

  And be kind of in control of the narrative that gets spun about who you are, rather than reacting to whatever TMZ decides to, you know, post about you or, or put on a television show.

• 1:08:31Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I think the podcast, like the realest, rawest form of like, seeing a real person, I think, with these conversations. I really do, I don't know. I think that there's been so many I listen to or just people I've had on, just like they really get comfortable and wanna talk about things that they wouldn't usually talk about on Entertainment Tonight or like, you know, in my big studio, I don't know. It just, especially-

• 1:08:53Toby Morse?

  It's so important now, man, especially if people actually want people to know what you're really about. Cause you're not gonna find it on online.

• 1:08:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Toby Morse?

  Do you know what I mean? But I'm psyched on the Travis one.

• 1:09:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I can't wait to listen to that. I mean, he did my podcast. It was, I don't know, it was probably like six years ago.

• 1:09:07Toby Morse?

  Yeah, no.

• 1:09:08Rich Roll?

  It was a long time ago, right? And like, unlike you, I don't know him that well. Like, we live sort of nearby each other and I used to see him at Erawan, you know, like, I'm sure he doesn't go to, I haven't seen him there in a long time. He's probably too famous to like go buy food anymore, but um, I just found him to be, you know, really open and sweet and sensitive. And I've had occasion to bump into him a number of times since then and we, you know, we went to that Crossroads thing and he was there and he was very kind. But, you know, I wouldn't, he's not somebody I'm hanging out with all the time, I guess is what I'm saying. And yet, he, he like texted me like a week ago because he was in Portugal and he was sitting at a cafe

• 1:09:51Rich Roll?

  and he struck up a conversation with a stranger and somehow like my name came up and this guy was like, oh, you know, Rich helped me get sober through his pot or whatever. And this guy hadn't even listened to the Travis episode, so I don't even exactly know how it all came up.

• 1:10:04Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Rich Roll?

  But then Travis texted me to just tell me that he had had that experience. Like, he didn't have to do that.

• 1:10:11Toby Morse?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:11Rich Roll?

  You know, like, and I think that speaks to the kind of person that, that he is and um, that's, it's cool.

• 1:10:18Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I mean, like, he stayed himself the whole time and navigating through all that, all that celebrity and fame, just everything, his whole life's been like pretty much being filmed. Even, even before when he had like Meet the Barkers and even Blink is a massive band. He's been famous for a really long time.

• 1:10:32Rich Roll?

  For such a long time. Like, how do you do that?

• 1:10:34Toby Morse?

  In the spotlight.

• 1:10:34Rich Roll?

  I wouldn't, I wouldn't want that.

• 1:10:36Toby Morse?

  Oh, like a TV, like a reality show?

• 1:10:37Rich Roll?

  Just all the time?

• 1:10:39Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I couldn't, yeah.

• 1:10:40Rich Roll?

  Your life being chronicled in that way?

• 1:10:41Toby Morse?

  Yeah, just lights like this every day. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, some people can do it though, I mean, whatever. It works for people, but yeah, I just.

• 1:10:50Rich Roll?

  How many episodes of the podcast have you done?

• 1:10:52Toby Morse?

  Today's 249.

• 1:10:53Rich Roll?

  Hmm. And you're like banked through like May or something, you told me.

• 1:10:58Toby Morse?

  I'm in May next year right now, yeah. But I'll move things around. People wanna like promote something, but mostly my stuff's this conversation, nothing really promoting. Yeah, I bank 'em and uh, I gotta chill on that.

• 1:11:08Rich Roll?

  And you just wanna keep it the way that it is? Do you wanna, like, what's your, do you have an ambition for it?

• 1:11:13Toby Morse?

  I filmed one before, I just didn't like it.

• 1:11:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you don't, you don't film yours, yeah.

• 1:11:17Toby Morse?

  I like the audio, I like it. People are comfortable in my house and not being filmed, there's no really lights and they like enjoy it and I get, I feel like, me personally, I'll get a good conversation just like that and like my dog farting on them or Max coming in or getting them a drink or taking a bathroom break, which we do.

• 1:11:33Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:11:33Toby Morse?

  It's just, it's like.

• 1:11:34Rich Roll?

  You could do that here.

• 1:11:35Toby Morse?

  That's true, yeah. You ever take breaks during the podcast? No, I'm good. But I'm saying, but yeah, I love, it's working for me. I'm happy with it. It works for me. I love it, enjoy it. Don't fix anything broke, you know?

• 1:11:46Rich Roll?

  Right. Um, you've got a Liquid Death in front of you and I know that you do like some brand work for them, like you've been like an ambassador for, for that brand.

• 1:11:55Toby Morse?

  I was saying this a while ago, man, I remember.

• 1:11:56Rich Roll?

  I know. And we were like at a Super Bowl party and they had their big Super Bowl ad and you were so excited, like that company went from zero to a hundred like so fast. These people are like marketing geniuses, cause it's basically water and it's great.

• 1:12:11Toby Morse?

  Like Sisario, man.

• 1:12:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, unbelievable. What I didn't know until this morning was uh, this um, thing that they did where artists like yourself and a bunch of others created music and songs out of their bad reviews.

• 1:12:28Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I'm in there.

• 1:12:28Rich Roll?

  And there's like a music video.

• 1:12:31Toby Morse?

  They took all bad comments and make songs and reviews.

• 1:12:33Rich Roll?

  And they like use them as lyrics in a song, right?

• 1:12:35Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 1:12:36Rich Roll?

  What is the backstory? Like, that's a brilliant move. And the music video is like Puritan, like scarlet letter, like women dressed up as like colonial, like Puritans, like uh, reading, like basically singing about how uh, you know, this brand is evil.

• 1:12:53Toby Morse?

  There's all negative stuff written about them. They did like a punk one, I was just on the eighties one, me and uh, I had Chappelle on there, um, Chris Cole, Mark McGrath, Tony Canau, they got a whole bunch of people on this new record that came out. Basically, yeah, this, they're making catchy ass songs from negative comments.

• 1:13:10Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:13:10Toby Morse?

  They thrive on that shit, dude.

• 1:13:12Rich Roll?

  It's pretty funny.

• 1:13:12Toby Morse?

  It's like a water brain with like two million followers. It's crazy how they're doing it, like latest drop that MeUndies collab, it's like the biggest collab MeUndies have done supposedly.

• 1:13:19Rich Roll?

  I didn't know about that. MeUndies Liquid Death collab?

• 1:13:22Toby Morse?

  It's really good too, it looks good, yeah. It's like, what can't

• 1:13:25Rich Roll?

  That's like, only in like the podcast world, you know what I mean?

• 1:13:29Toby Morse?

  But it's like, what can't they do? They're doing every call, it's crazy dude. Like every week, something else comes out, I'm like, oh, I need to get that, it's cool stuff they're doing. Yeah, I'm an owner, it's great, the company's great, I'm an ambassador, um, yeah, they do my pod and

• 1:13:41Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 1:13:42Toby Morse?

  Yeah, it's a great brand, they're really killing it, man, it's just water in a can, people just freak out about it. People hate on it too, so bad too. I don't care, it's just a good sip of water, you know? Marketing dude, marketing's everything, man.

• 1:13:53Rich Roll?

  It's a marketing company.

• 1:13:54Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Rich Roll?

  In the same way that Red Bull is a marketing company, right? And Red Bull, you know, uses the money that they make from selling this beverage to fund this media empire, which is, to me, the interesting part of that company.

• 1:14:09Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:10Rich Roll?

  So it'll be interesting to see what Liquid Death does.

• 1:14:12Toby Morse?

  I mean, last year they ended crazy, and this year's probably ended really crazy financially, you know what I mean? They came out last year, how big it was, like, it's just everywhere, now it's in Europe. It's everywhere, it's come out in England, it's water, man.

• 1:14:25Rich Roll?

  Are you still doing the, the public speaking thing? Like, that was a bigger part of your life.

• 1:14:30Toby Morse?

  It was a big

• 1:14:31Rich Roll?

  Prior, right? Like, going to high schools and stuff like that? Like, but I haven't heard you talk about that, or

• 1:14:36Toby Morse?

  Cause schools, everything went to Zoom, it was really crazy for a couple of years, I was doing it in the last couple of schools, maybe 2018? And now, um, yeah, I loved it, I went to like 30 schools, I'd love to bring it back, I was talking about somewhere the other day about it. If there's like physical schools I can go to, I'd love to do it again, yeah. But also, like, it's just getting me there and, you know, finances and all that stuff. What I was doing, I'd piggyback, I might go do them for free, I'd do it on a weekend of shows, it was kinda hard, they'll play like three shows and like, try to have a voice and then go speak on a Monday. So I was kinda like separating, uh, church and state, separating H2O and, uh, speaking. So I just do it, fly out into like a couple of schools.

• 1:15:14Rich Roll?

  Do you still have the foundation though, One Life One Chance?

• 1:15:16Toby Morse?

  The nonprofit, yeah.

• 1:15:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:18Toby Morse?

  Took a while to get that.

• 1:15:19Rich Roll?

  You gotta kick that back up, man.

• 1:15:20Toby Morse?

  I know, I'd love to. I'd love to do it again, actually.

• 1:15:22Rich Roll?

  I feel like that would give you an energy boost. Not that you need it, you have a lot of energy.

• 1:15:28Toby Morse?

  But no, I would, I would love to do it again. It was really fun. I should really, I was talking about something, I went and do that again, but the pandemic kind of crushed everything and then when I was doing that, my band wasn't really doing much. Then we put a new record out, then we just kept touring, so like, I'll bring it back for sure.

• 1:15:41Rich Roll?

  When are you going out to tour again? What does that look like?

• 1:15:44Toby Morse?

  Hmm, rest of the year, nothing. And then next year, we have like one showbook, but then we have a bunch of festivals in Europe, June and July.

• 1:15:52Rich Roll?

  The whole festival thing in Europe.

• 1:15:54Toby Morse?

  It's incredible, man. I love it. We should always go during the summer, bring Moon and Max to come. Now Max is with us, obviously, but just go away for like two or three weeks and play all outdoor festivals. It's awesome.

• 1:16:05Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. And you got Chappelle into a band, right? Like you got him playing music?

• 1:16:10Toby Morse?

  Well, he's got his own band, they're called Mad Peaceful, they're awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:14Rich Roll?

  But he had never been, like you guys became friends through social media, podcasting, right? And he's a stand-up comic.

• 1:16:20Toby Morse?

  Yep.

• 1:16:20Rich Roll?

  Um, but loves hardcore.

• 1:16:23Toby Morse?

  Loves hardcore. He changed his life as a young kid, yeah.

• 1:16:25Rich Roll?

  So how, but that's a different thing from like, okay, now I'm gonna be in a band.

• 1:16:30Toby Morse?

  Yeah. Started a band, actually go see him play tonight, actually, and um, Alex is playing guitar tonight. Um, they're playing tonight.

• 1:16:37Rich Roll?

  Alex, is, is, are you in, are you in the, are you in Chappelle's band?

• 1:16:41Toby Morse?

  Tonight I am.

• 1:16:41Rich Roll?

  Oh, you are?

• 1:16:42Toby Morse?

  I'm playing guitar tonight.

• 1:16:43Rich Roll?

  Crazy, wow.

• 1:16:44Toby Morse?

  Dude, they're a great band. Like, he's a great front man. They sound awesome. The songs are great. Um, it's like this agnostic front, Black Flag kind of mix, I like to say about them. And he, he loves it. It's another way for him to like, you know, get it out.

• 1:16:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And then your other boy, Derek.

• 1:16:58Toby Morse?

  Sepultura.

• 1:16:59Rich Roll?

  So, I never know how to say that. Sepultura?

• 1:17:02Toby Morse?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:02Rich Roll?

  It's like a, it's a Brazilian band, isn't it? He came in later, like when the lead singer left or something happened?

• 1:17:09Toby Morse?

  Yeah, I think the first singer was in 20 years and he's been in the second 20 years, been in the 40 years, man. Kills it. Amazing front man.

• 1:17:15Rich Roll?

  Also, big time plant-based dude.

• 1:17:18Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 1:17:18Rich Roll?

  Who's got that show, what's it called, with Tanya O'Callaghan that they do? Highway to Health, right?

• 1:17:23Toby Morse?

  Yes.

• 1:17:24Rich Roll?

  It's a, is it a YouTube series?

• 1:17:25Toby Morse?

  Yep. It became one, yeah. They had it for a while, they were shopping it and then end up on YouTube, which is great. And it's, yeah, it's doing really well in there too. It's a great concept.

• 1:17:33Rich Roll?

  I'm getting Tanya in here soon.

• 1:17:35Toby Morse?

  Nice, you are.

• 1:17:36Rich Roll?

  To do the podcast. She's great. Yeah.

• 1:17:37Toby Morse?

  She's awesome, dude.

• 1:17:38Rich Roll?

  She's playing, she's playing bass, uh, with Iron Maiden right now with Chris Dickinson.

• 1:17:44Toby Morse?

  Credible.

• 1:17:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:45Toby Morse?

  She was playing with like-

• 1:17:46Rich Roll?

  She's a striking person. When she walks into a room, people notice.

• 1:17:49Toby Morse?

  For sure.

• 1:17:49Rich Roll?

  Like, super tall with the dreads and the whole thing and like, you know, just rocking the bass at like-

• 1:17:54Toby Morse?

  Killing it.

• 1:17:54Rich Roll?

  Highest, highest level of like, metal.

• 1:17:57Toby Morse?

  I think she's in Whitesnake too or something crazy.

• 1:17:59Rich Roll?

  She was before that, yeah.

• 1:17:59Toby Morse?

  And Steve Nowther's band, yeah, she's amazing. She does a lot for the animals in her platform.

• 1:18:03Rich Roll?

  Huge, huge like vegan, plant-based, animal activist person.

• 1:18:07Toby Morse?

  She's cool, man.

• 1:18:08Rich Roll?

  From Ireland, yeah.

• 1:18:09Toby Morse?

  There's some cool people around us, man.

• 1:18:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Toby Morse?

  Cool little world.

• 1:18:11Rich Roll?

  I know. So what is the, what is the Coffee Bunch look like these days?

• 1:18:15Toby Morse?

  Coffee Bunch?

• 1:18:15Rich Roll?

  Since I've been around, like, or the, the sort of lunchtime crew?

• 1:18:19Toby Morse?

  Oh, they go with the crew we have?

• 1:18:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:21Toby Morse?

  It's still the same crew, Chappelle, Derek, Alex will pull up, we were training for a while in my garage, um...

• 1:18:26Rich Roll?

  You gotta sign up for some kind of running race though, cause when you came out and when we shot that video and we were running around LA and we ended up like running up that hill that gives you that vista, that view of like downtown LA. We did like repeats on that and like at the end, everybody was rallying around like you making it up there, man. And I felt like that was like a breakthrough.

• 1:18:44Toby Morse?

  It was a breakthrough. Thank you for that, yeah. So I've been running ever since, man. I've like, I was told by, um, Hakim to have like, different, changed up different styles of running. She was always switching them out, have five different styles that switch out. But, um, love my aunt's the best. And, uh, yeah, so that was a great, great moment with you. So yeah, thank you for that.

• 1:19:03Rich Roll?

  Is Hakim still doing like the Run Club stuff?

• 1:19:06Toby Morse?

  I'm not sure about that.

• 1:19:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:07Toby Morse?

  I love Hakim, he's an awesome dude. He's a great soul. I'm gonna, uh, Taco Baggie with you.

• 1:19:12Rich Roll?

  He's a great dude. Um, yeah, man, I wanna see that happen.

• 1:19:16Toby Morse?

  Wait, would, would you run with me? Are you, are you back in the running game?

• 1:19:19Rich Roll?

  If my, if my back gets healed, I'm working on that.

• 1:19:21Toby Morse?

  So maybe next year?

• 1:19:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so I've been benched. Hopefully sooner than that.

• 1:19:24Toby Morse?

  Well, I mean, I, I mean, run a marathon next year.

• 1:19:26Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah, I'd love to.

• 1:19:27Toby Morse?

  I'd love to do it with you.

• 1:19:29Rich Roll?

  It'd be fun.

• 1:19:29Toby Morse?

  I'll do a half marathon before that, for sure. I gotta step up my miles though.

• 1:19:33Rich Roll?

  You should, man.

• 1:19:34Toby Morse?

  It fell off a little bit.

• 1:19:34Rich Roll?

  Get back on that.

• 1:19:35Toby Morse?

  I will.

• 1:19:35Rich Roll?

  Keep you lean, bro. I know.

• 1:19:38Toby Morse?

  You're feeling good though?

• 1:19:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Uh, yeah, my back is getting better. I still have a little bit of ways to go, but I'm anxious to get back out there. Like, I've just, it hasn't been fun. It's a whole other story.

• 1:19:49Toby Morse?

  Well, you're an inspiration for everybody and I appreciate being your friend and being here and you inspired me to run and step up my game with the plunge, the sauna, everything. You, Huberman, Brolin, everybody, everybody's like my peers, yeah.

• 1:19:59Rich Roll?

  It's funny, um, the whole Huberman thing came together because he's, he's like a fan of H2O.

• 1:20:04Toby Morse?

  I know, I talked to him, you called him on the FaceTime. We met right then at that moment. It was crazy.

• 1:20:08Rich Roll?

  Because he wanted to meet you and I knew you wanted to meet him and I was like, this alliance has to happen.

• 1:20:12Toby Morse?

  That was crazy. Fully tatted punk rock skateboarder, like killing it.

• 1:20:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:17Toby Morse?

  And he, he blessed me with the plunge and then I blessed one to, uh, to Josh in the trap. So, yeah, thank you for that. Pay it forward, man.

• 1:20:24Rich Roll?

  I love it, buddy. It's been, it's been cool to watch you kind of embrace all these lifestyle practices.

• 1:20:30Toby Morse?

  That you've been doing for so long.

• 1:20:31Rich Roll?

  No, not, not really. No, man. I mean, like, you know, I haven't been plunging that much longer than you and all this sauna. I just got a sauna for the first time recently, so.

• 1:20:40Toby Morse?

  Such a game changer, man.

• 1:20:41Rich Roll?

  Hooked me up with that and I'm really enjoying it.

• 1:20:43Toby Morse?

  Do you do it in the morning or night?

• 1:20:44Rich Roll?

  I do it like late afternoon, early evening. That's my favorite time to do it.

• 1:20:48Toby Morse?

  Same.

• 1:20:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:50Toby Morse?

  Nighttime's kind of gnarly.

• 1:20:51Rich Roll?

  Um, yeah.

• 1:20:53Toby Morse?

  It's cold out.

• 1:20:53Rich Roll?

  I do, like, I could plunge in the morning and that's great, but like sauna in the morning, like, I, it, it, it, like, that kind of lulls me into like.

• 1:21:01Toby Morse?

  Want to take a nap or something?

• 1:21:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like, I want to, I want to take a rest after that.

• 1:21:04Toby Morse?

  Yeah, nighttime is really great and like doing this direct sauna and stuff and, yeah, it's just game changer, man.

• 1:21:10Rich Roll?

  Cool. Well, I love you, buddy.

• 1:21:12Toby Morse?

  I love you too, man.

• 1:21:12Rich Roll?

  Thank you for coming here and catching me up.

• 1:21:14Toby Morse?

  This is great, man. Thank you.

• 1:21:15Rich Roll?

  I don't remember what happened last time. It's like, I don't know. Like, I do the thing and then I move on. Like, I don't know what we talked about last time.

• 1:21:20Toby Morse?

  I'm curious about your hairstyle. What's going to be next for you?

• 1:21:22Rich Roll?

  I don't know. It's bad, right? I don't know what to do.

• 1:21:24Toby Morse?

  You have great hair, though.

• 1:21:25Rich Roll?

  I'm growing my hair out. I'm in the in-between phase, so I've just been wearing hats, but like, I don't know what to do with my hair. So I need a style consultant. What should I do?

• 1:21:33Toby Morse?

  We want to stick your back or something, I don't know.

• 1:21:34Rich Roll?

  I tried that.

• 1:21:35Toby Morse?

  You did?

• 1:21:37Toby Morse?

  You just keep growing. I want to keep growing. Have you ever had long hair before?

• 1:21:39Rich Roll?

  I had, yeah. I've had really long hair. I don't know if I'm gonna go all the way back there.

• 1:21:42Toby Morse?

  If you still have it, since you have it, grow it, man. It looks good.

• 1:21:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man. And if I ever decide to get a tattoo, you're the first person I'm gonna call.

• 1:21:52Toby Morse?

  I got you. I'm not even doing it on you.

• 1:21:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I have, it's a virgin cannabis, dude.

• 1:21:56Toby Morse?

  Would you ever get one?

• 1:21:57Rich Roll?

  Maybe. We'll see.

• 1:21:58Toby Morse?

  Like a little PMA tattoo or something?

• 1:22:00Rich Roll?

  Maybe, maybe. We'll talk.

• 1:22:01Toby Morse?

  I got, anybody you want, I got you.

• 1:22:03Rich Roll?

  All right.

• 1:22:04Toby Morse?

  You're never too old to get first tattoo.

• 1:22:06Rich Roll?

  To be continued. All right.

• 1:22:08Toby Morse?

  Thank you.

• 1:22:09Rich Roll?

  Thank you. Peace.

• 1:22:10Toby Morse?

  Peace.

• 1:22:18Rich Roll?

  That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way, as well as The Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and/or comment.

• 1:23:02Rich Roll?

  Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the Meal Planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo, with additional audio engineering by Kale Curtis. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis, with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davy Greenberg. Graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Salis.

• 1:23:46Rich Roll?

  Thank you Georgia Whaley for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace.

• 1:24:01Rich Roll?

  Plants. Salasde.