Success Requires Letting Go of People’s Expectations of You (Jackie Aina)

Jackie Aina has been building in public for 17 years. She didn't just grow an audience, she helped define what it meant to be a Black woman with a voice in the beauty industry. But influence was never the end goal. After nearly two decades as one of YouTube's most recognized creators, Jackie took $250,000 of her own money and started a fragrance brand. Not a makeup line — a fragrance brand. Her childhood dream. The first thing she ever did that nobody asked for. In this conversation, Jackie sits down with Emma to talk about what it really takes to go from influencer to founder and why the two have almost nothing in common. Jackie shares: Why six million followers doesn't mean six million in revenue — and what creators get wrong about turning an audience into a business How she self-funded Forvr Mood with $250K, sold out six months of inventory in four hours, and nearly had a breakdown closing the laptop The vendor relationship that looked like a smart start and took over a year to untangle What she had to unlearn about being "the strong one" — and why doing everything is actually a disservice to everyone around you Why she deliberately didn't build a makeup brand, and what it meant to finally do something just for herself What's something you've outgrown — even if other people still expect that version of you? Drop it in the comments. And subscribe to Aspire with Emma Grede so you don't miss what's next. We'd love to hear what you think. Please take this survey to help us make the show better for you: emmagrede.com/survey http://emmagrede.com/survey

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  So today I'm talking to Jackie Aina and I am so excited about this conversation. For all of you creators out there who dream one day to have your own business, this is a conversation about how you turn influence into ownership and that visibility into viability for a business. She really does not hold back. If you know Jackie, you know she doesn't. It's an amazing conversation and I cannot wait for you guys to see this one.

• 0:43Emma Grede?

  Jackie, welcome to Aspire.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 0:47Emma Grede?

  I am so, so excited to get into this chat today because if I know anything about you, it's that you don't hold back, my love.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  I don't, girl.

• 0:55Emma Grede?

  You don't.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  I sure don't.

• 0:57Emma Grede?

  You don't. Well, don't here. That's not, that's not why we have you here.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  I'm like, dang, am I in trouble, Emma?

• 1:02Emma Grede?

  Absolutely not. Quite the opposite. All I need you to do is just tell the truth and you're gonna make all my dreams come true today.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  That's all I can do.

• 1:09Emma Grede?

  I love it. Jackie, you have been in the content creator business for 17 years. I really wanna know what's changed most about Jackie over the years.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  The things that they don't tell you about becoming successful is that, you know how people oftentimes say like, "Oh, you've changed." I don't find that insulting anymore because I've actually realized in my personal experience that when you build something great, it's actually the people around you that change. They don't wanna admit it though. The way that they perceive you completely changes. So I've had to, in a way, remove personal Jackie from what I do as a business. Like, personal Jackie is locked away and tucked and harbored and sheltered. That's for like my man, my family, my loved ones. But sometimes, girl, even family, like, things change, like, people change. You have to, you have to keep your personhood intact for yourself.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  But I've learned that like the stuff that I experience is not personal. And the the less I take things personal, the better I am at like mentally and emotionally handling this job. And I'm proud of that because I didn't think I could do it, girl.

• 2:21Emma Grede?

  I mean, I'm changing my question number two already because I, first of all, I didn't expect you to say that.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:27Emma Grede?

  As someone who's built their career, you know, primarily and in the beginning on being an influencer, like, you know, your whole thing is that you're authentically you, that we're getting to know you. So how have you managed to lock a part of you away?

• 2:40Speaker 01

  I come from actually like a really good advantage because when I started my channel, my first ever social media was YouTube. Well, when I started doing this as a career was YouTube, but I was teaching people how to do makeup and I was only talking about makeup. So if you really think about it, you're watching my videos, you only see me from the collar up. You have no idea who I'm messing around with after hours. You have no idea what the rest of me looks like. You have no idea where I live, you have no idea where I sleep, you don't know what my house looks like. So it was very easy to keep just that side of me. Like it was always strictly beauty and I kept it that way for a long time. So it was very easy as I started to realize like, oh, this social media stuff is like, we're really becoming like the new celebrities.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  I I really, I really signed up for that.

• 3:28Emma Grede?

  But you had that awareness, you felt like we're becoming the new celebrities.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, very early on. I would say probably like year five.

• 3:36Emma Grede?

  Interesting.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  And it was like a little bizarre for me because I was like, I don't know if I love that, but okay, like, sure.

• 3:43Emma Grede?

  Well, I feel like there's just so much debate around where influencers belong and where they don't belong. Where do you stand? And is there anywhere that you don't want to see an influencer?

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Well, technically, no, because before you're an influencer, you're still a profession. Like I was a professional makeup artist, so you're for damn sure not going to tell me I can't work behind the scenes too. I happen to have followers, but I'm still a working professional. And there's so many people like technically someone could say you're an influencer, not by trade, but like by way of what you do, by posting and sharing what you do, like you do influence people, you do ads on your content. So like you're technically doing that too, but you're still a brand founder and entrepreneur first. So I think it's a bit. Odd to say influencers don't belong in certain spaces because it's like, well, if you have a profession, but you happen to be an influencer, then how can you technically, it would be like telling a plastic surgeon that they don't belong in the operating room if they're also,

• 4:38Speaker 01

  if they also have two million followers.

• 4:39Emma Grede?

  Facts. I mean, listen.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  How does that?

• 4:41Emma Grede?

  I, I think.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  I don't know. That doesn't really.

• 4:42Emma Grede?

  No, I, I think you're right.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Everybody's kind of an influencer in a way. I don't know.

• 4:47Emma Grede?

  You don't buy it?

• 4:48Speaker 01

  No, I mean, you don't want to have a conversation. This has been my job seventeen years. It's like,

• 4:51Emma Grede?

  Well, listen.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  You don't want to debate this with me, honey.

• 4:53Emma Grede?

  I mean, it has been your job for the longest time, but obviously, algorithms change, right? And your relevance has really remained. And so, how have you managed to stay relevant for seventeen years?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  So to go back to your original question is, I'm not just the content. Like, I teach people valuable skills. I really centered, for a long time, I really centered like education. So like product education, how tos, like people were really coming to my channel, my platform to learn something. When we would talk about stuff like colorism or getting a launch and having it look ashy and showing that on camera and then being like, why could you not think of higher, like as a multi-billion dollar or whatever conglomerate or brand, how would you send me a PR mailer and not think, this is not even remotely her color?

• 5:46Emma Grede?

  That became part of your niche. Like, you would call people out if they were doing things that seemed where there was a lack of thought. That, that would be your thing. You'd be straight on them.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of. Because like, I mean, we should state the obvious, you know? Like, I don't know. We see, it's, it's a little awkward.

• 6:03Emma Grede?

  At what point did you realize that it was beyond content, that you actually had a real business?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Honestly, this kind of gags people, but like, five.

• 6:11Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:12Emma Grede?

  Really? Because I think the perception was so different, right? I feel like a couple of years in, you were like such a go-to and such a name, but like five years before you were taking it seriously, or you had the money to just like make that your thing?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  I think it was like, okay, I should probably get like a manager. I should probably get like an agent. Like, I should probably have representation. And also, I think year five, it was like, what am I even doing with this? Like, girl, is this a hobby? You have these hundred dollars worth of cameras and lighting. What are you actually doing with this? Like, if you can't quit your day job, this is still fun. But like, I think you should decide. One way or other, like, we gotta do something with this, because otherwise it's like a waste of time.

• 6:53Emma Grede?

  What was the moment for you when you decided, alright, it's time to quit and it's time to make this my full-time job as a content creator?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Probably when I was living in Kuwait. So when I was living in Kuwait, I was making, well, at that time, I was balling, girl.

• 7:06Emma Grede?

  Spill the tea, girl, tell me, what are you talking about?

• 7:09Speaker 01

  This was the most money.

• 7:10Emma Grede?

  What kind of money are you talking about?

• 7:11Speaker 01

  This is actually so sad. Like, I don't even wanna say the dollar amount.

• 7:14Emma Grede?

  You better say the dollar amount. Don't be coming on a spiral and not talking about the money.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  It was a lot of money for me.

• 7:19Emma Grede?

  With a lot of money for you, it's a lot of money?

• 7:21Speaker 01

  It was also tax-free, though, so it was like, it was a cute little moment, you know, like, it was cute.

• 7:26Emma Grede?

  We're talking, like, you know, a hundred, a couple of hundred grand?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Not even that much. I was like seventy.

• 7:32Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  That was balling to me.

• 7:34Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was balling. That was, like, really good. So, when I was living in Kuwait and I was making, like, tax-free money, I was like, I'm gonna figure out this YouTube thing. I need to figure out, like, I need to, like, this is fun, but I really need to hunker down. And also, I was still doing professional makeup, by the way. So I was still a working freelance makeup artist. And I was also doing makeup in Kuwait as well. But I was like, I need to invest in my creative path. Like, I really need to put my best foot forward. I feel like I'm not gonna be able to sleep at night if I don't at least try to pursue this on a serious level. Not just for fun, not just as a hobby. So, it was that year, yeah, it was like two thousand, it was like two thousand twelve. And then I decided that I was gonna put a bunch of money aside, and in order to, like, make my family happy, because half my family's Nigerian,

• 8:17Speaker 01

  and they're, like, super, very academically driven. So in my head, I thought, okay, in order for this to be, like, legitimized and, like, not embarrassing, like, I have to have some type of credentials. I have to have something. So I was like, I'm gonna go to cosmetology school and I'm gonna just, that's gonna be like my legit, it's gonna feel like I'm legitimized in a way, right? So that's what I did. I, I was in Kuwait, I had this job, it was a contract, so it was like one year, and then when my contract ended, I came back, and I had saved, like, Fifteen K. Yep. And it went straight into my education. And I went to Vidal Sassoon in Santa Monica. And I became a licensed cosmetologist.

• 8:53Emma Grede?

  I love that you mention your heritage and your background because I think maybe being the eldest of seven to a part of your black and Nigerian family. How do you think that prepared you to actually run a business?

• 9:07Speaker 01

  I feel like now that I'm like pushing forty, Emma, like I'm turning forty next year. This is crazy. Well, I'm gagged though. I'm not one of those people. I'm not one of those people who don't get back. No, listen, I'm excited. Like, I already know it's gonna be like Jackie four point. This is like my ninth life, so forty's is really about to be popping. But I genuinely feel like I'm at an age where I'm, I have a better understanding of what my familial position, how it both bettered me and also in some ways, like, I'm like, wow, like, I shouldn't have taken on that much when I was so young. So I'm like more self-aware of that now. And I think part of that comes from probably like getting older. You're just like, wow, like, I was kind of messed up. Like, it made me who I am, but like, damn, like, why did I have to go through all that? You know? Say, say more.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  What, what do you mean? Oh, just like the whole concept of like adultifying young black girls. But I don't think when I was younger, I was able to recognize that. No way. I think it was just like, oh, you know, like, that's just, and then also like black women, like, we really carry strong, especially when you're younger, it's like a compliment. When you're young, everybody wants to be like more mature for their age. Everybody wants to look older, be older, give more responsibility. It's like such a flex, but not looking like, I'm like, I missed out on a lot. Like, it makes me like, kind of sad. I think I'm truthfully able to be a better leader now. Because I'm now recognizing, actually, I should not do everything. Like, I have no business doing everything. I'm doing a disservice to everybody around me if I try to take on too much all the time.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I don't want to do everything. I don't want to be looked at as somebody who's invincible and can take it all and handle it all. No, I can't. Like, I'm able to like, say, that's not my portion. That's too much for me. Or, you know what, like, and this is very the antithesis of Jackie fifteen years ago. Jackie fifteen years ago. Was like, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do everything. And I'm just like, actually, I don't wanna do everything. And I'm like, cool, like, I'm cool with that.

• 11:02Emma Grede?

  Jackie, give me the highlight reel, right? So it's like, you go to Kuwait, you come back. Give me the, the quick version of your trajectory.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  So my graph line really looks more like.

• 11:12Emma Grede?

  I'm going like that, you're like.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  It's a dip.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Backwards.

• 11:18Emma Grede?

  But that's even useful for people to understand.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  No, I'm telling you.

• 11:21Emma Grede?

  From the outside, it feels like this, but I guess when you're in it, that was anything but.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Emma, I'm telling you, I've had like nine lives. Like, people are really like, you're only thirty eight. They're like, how the hell did you accomplish all that? I'm like, yes, like, I was in the trenches. Like, you don't understand.

• 11:39Emma Grede?

  Because I read some stuff about you and I was like, no way. First of all, you were married young, right?

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Married young.

• 11:44Emma Grede?

  You were married young, twenty twenty one? Stupid, married and unmarried. We're just gonna go.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Thank God. That was when I started my YouTube channel, though.

• 11:54Emma Grede?

  Well, you know, it led to something.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was.

• 11:57Emma Grede?

  Doing and undoing.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Literally. So I think a part of that, like, at the time, what was really unique for me is because I was like so unhappy at that time, I was searching for a creative outlet. And so YouTube gave me that. The sad thing is, is like, that was at that time, the only people that were nice to me were people that were online, literal strangers. It was like, I was that down bad.

• 12:22Emma Grede?

  And wait a minute, at what point were you in the reserves? Because I feel like, didn't you spend like eight years? You were married and a makeup artist in the reserves, out here disappointing the Nigerian family because you just wanted a doc. I mean, there was a lot going on. So take me back to what YouTube was like in two thousand and nine, because I don't think that you can even compare.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  No, it's completely different now.

• 12:44Emma Grede?

  It's a different world.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Completely different now. The makeup world was really niche. It was, you were just kind of like at the whim of like whatever was viral. Like, it was kind of a thing. But then two thousand eight was when the girlies started like doing makeup. And so I was like, oh, what's, what's this? Like?

• 13:01Speaker 01

  The girlies are like putting it on like, oh, this is a community. Cause I was the oddball in my family. Nobody was a glam girl at all. Like, it was strange. Like, it was very strange. But, you know, because I was the oldest and I knew that my parents needed me. It was like, not too much boo. Like, you gonna let me wear this lipstick?

• 13:18Emma Grede?

  Let me do what I'm doing.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I was kind of like the creative one. And coming on YouTube, I was like, wow, I didn't know people loved makeup as much as me. So I really, really took to it. But I didn't see a lot of darker skinned women. So what I was basically doing is I was taking looks that I would see like white women doing or like Asian women were doing with like lighter complexions. And I was like interpreting it on my skin tone.

• 13:43Emma Grede?

  Got it.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  And so my friend would tell me, why don't you film that kind of stuff? And I'd be like, girl, bye. Like, I'm not, like, I was just not interested in being on camera whatsoever. But then eventually, like, considering how sad I was, like offline, I just was like, you know what, I really got much else better to do, so why not?

• 14:04Emma Grede?

  Why not?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I just started exactly like that. But the community, like, I actually miss that about social media. The community aspect was so much more pure. And I think there's something to be said about doing something where you have no idea you're about to make money off it. Very different motivating factors.

• 14:21Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  So I really, like, vibed with people because there was no incentive. I really love the community building aspect of it. That has always been the focal point of why I enjoy this job.

• 14:35Emma Grede?

  And also why you're so good at it. Because I think that shows, right? It's like you actually build a real community. And people often ask me like, what is the test? How do you know if you're building a community? It's when they're talking without you. And I think that you have this group of people that were just like obsessed and infatuated with you and what you were doing. And they went off and had their own conversations and like, we had conversations together. And to me, that's like the real spirit of community building. You were sparking conversations and then they were happening outside of your platform. You were informing a kind of like a generation and a whole group of women into thinking about things and having conversations that maybe they weren't having. At what point did you actually start making real money?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Year six.

• 15:18Emma Grede?

  Year six.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:19Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 15:28Emma Grede?

  How has it changed to actually build an audience? Like, what's the difference between when you were doing things in 2009 to like now in 2026?

• 15:39Speaker 01

  So to an extent, I think I probably experienced this joining TikTok because you know, on TikTok, they don't care who your mama is, who your daddy is. They don't care if you're a nepo baby. They don't care if you have 14 million followers on YouTube. You better earn your spot here and we want to hear your voice and we want to know why. Like, why are we following you? Every platform is very different. Like, they have a very different point of view and they have a very... I think they require a different type of voice depending on what platform you're on, if that makes sense.

• 16:05Emma Grede?

  And you can... How do you ascertain that? How do you figure that out?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  You honestly just have to like fumble. You have to flop. You have to post things that don't work. You have to post things that do work. I will tear all this shit up and start from scratch. Like, I don't care. I literally do not care.

• 16:20Emma Grede?

  I love this. All right, so tell me what this looks like when there is like new, a new platform. So it's like, talk to me about TikTok. You are just gonna literally test and learn and tear it up if it doesn't work.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Why not? Nobody is above learning something new. Nobody is above 30 views. Okay? If, if only 30 people... Talk to them 30 people, boo. 30 people is better than nothing. Sorry, I like, I just feel like anything can be a community. Two comments. Hey, girl, how are you today? I, when people like message me and they're like, how did you? This is like one of my favorite things to talk about, by the way. But like, we were like, how do you grow eyes? How do you grow eyes? And then I just go on their page and I'm like, all right, well, 1,500 people watched your video. You only had 10 comments. You didn't respond to none of them? Girl! Or sir! You could have talked to 10 people. What are you gonna do with 5,000? Please, try getting a video with 10,000 comments. How are you gonna handle that?

• 17:14Speaker 01

  No, you need to talk, boots on the ground. Talk to people. Like, if you just genuinely enjoy talking to people, you're not really gonna care if it's 200,000 views or 13,000 views.

• 17:25Emma Grede?

  So here we are. You have this unbelievable career. You do a lot of really impressive brand deals and partnerships. You grow the platform. You really get to like this unbelievable presence on YouTube and as an influencer. And you decide that that's not enough for you.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  It's never enough.

• 17:48Emma Grede?

  It's never enough. But I think it's really interesting because you really wanna kind of take this visibility that you've grown and turn it into value, I'm imagining. I feel like there was a point in my career where I really felt as a consultant, like I was making money for everybody else but myself. I was taking the consultancy check and everyone was making millions of dollars out of my ideas and I was like, wow, I need ownership. Was there a similar turning point for you, like when you decided to set up your brand? Like at what point did you were you just like, I gotta do this, I don't have a choice?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so crazy because what you just described, I've never heard anyone else talk about it like that because that's how I felt too. And I don't fault it because I do think it's like, in my instance, it would be like collaborations, which in a way is kind of consulting with the brand, right? Because you're creating a product, but it said my names on it and I'm like, the talent associated with it. Yeah, you just like, oh, I sold that much? Interesting, love that for me. And it's very, it's very gratifying, but it's also like, wow, that makes me feel good. And also I think speaks to like what I'm capable of. Now, unpopular opinion, I don't necessarily think this means everybody needs to be an entrepreneur. I don't believe that, especially if you don't feel led to starting a brand of your own. However, I was always a fragrance girl.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  And when we started Forever Mood, I actually thought, you're probably gonna laugh at me, Emma, but I actually thought it was gonna be like a passion project, like I thought

• 19:14Emma Grede?

  No, you didn't.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  I didn't center fragrance in my content.

• 19:18Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  And there was something else at the time I was working on that would have been more aligned with what people would have expected of me.

• 19:29Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  And it was like right before COVID, like me and, me and my husband Dennis, we were just like meeting with manufacturers and having very like bottom level blase conversations about Forever Mood. It didn't even have a name at this time. This was like 2018. But genuinely, I thought it was gonna give like hobby, I thought it was gonna give like passion projects fun.

• 19:49Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Nothing about this is fun, like I love it, but it's a girl. I was so, I was genuinely so naive, so naive. And I also thought. This is going to be like practiced for the other thing that I was working on at the time.

• 20:06Emma Grede?

  But at that point, and I want to kind of go back almost before we go forward because you had done a lot of big brand partnerships. And I want to really understand, how were those, how were those brand deals structured? Like, were you making enough money out of those? Or were you really just getting paid a one-off fee and then like having to walk away from those things?

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Hmm, some of them were royalty structured. So some of them were both, actually. They'd be like a flat fee and/or royalty. But the biggest ones that I've done were like Two Face and Anastasia Beverly Hills. So they were structured slightly differently, but yeah, most times they're like a sum and then you go off and do.

• 20:43Emma Grede?

  Because what I'm trying to understand is, were you making enough out of those that you could have almost continued to do that? And, and what was the impetus to really start something yourself?

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Just creative control, like not feeling like I'm always giving a part of me to someone else. And I think, you know what, I think also just looking at the state of the business background that I've experienced myself, like working in the military, working corporate jobs, working in retail. I'm like, well, you know, if I don't like how bosses treat their employees and how they, you know, other companies that get criticized, structure their companies. And there's something that I feel like I can better, like I can do that with my own.

• 21:25Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  You know?

• 21:26Emma Grede?

  What do you think creators need to really understand about the difference between the two things? About collaborating with somebody else's brand versus starting something yourself?

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Well, this is the lesson I have to constantly remind myself. When you collaborate with a brand like Two Face that's backed by an Estee Lauder, they have a built-in marketing machine behind them. All you have to do is say, I like this, and they snap their fingers. It's global, it's everywhere. When you start your brand, yes, I have my voice, I have influence, I have people who are gonna support me authentically and organically. But you genuinely start from scratch because it's like, I don't have Two Face money. I don't have, I have money, but it's definitely not anywhere near the capabilities of these legacy brands that have been around for decades.

• 22:17Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and a following alone doesn't build a business. I try to say this all the time, like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you have hundreds of millions of followers, tens of millions of followers, a million followers, a hundred thousand followers. It's like, it's product and a business.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 22:32Emma Grede?

  And a business.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  And like, does the product fill a void? Does the product revolve around you? What happens if you get X out of the business? What happens if you get canceled? What happens? You know, like, what?

• 22:44Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  I don't think people think that far ahead.

• 22:47Emma Grede?

  What did you have to unlearn in the transition from influencer to business owner?

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Probably this, what we just said about the marketing thing. When I'm talking about a new product launch, today I could be talking about Maybelline, next week I could be talking about Patrick Ta, but if I'm always talking about Forever Mood, some of those people are going to be sick of it. So I can't be the number one marketing person in a way. I have to be really strategic and I have to be really smart with how much I talk about my brand as a founder, because otherwise people will get like fatigued.

• 23:16Emma Grede?

  Yes, well, because nobody follows you to hear your business updates.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:20Emma Grede?

  Right? And I think that that's why influencers as a platform are kind of an imperfect system, because we follow, I don't know, the rock to follow the rock, right? Not to hear about Terra Mana or whatever it is. Do you know what I mean? And so it's, it's almost like this imperfect system. And in a way, you have to look at your grid and be like, okay, then I'll talk about it there and there and there. And for a brand, you need to be always on. A brand needs every day. A brand needs, you know, constant contact with its audience. It is a bit of an imperfect start, but it's a start nevertheless.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  It is, but you know what? I'm so glad you said imperfect start, because when I start something, the average consumer who's aware of me and knows that I have a lot of followers and knows that I'm successful is going to expect kind of like the Amazon rollout.

• 24:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  But I'm still like even I I literally had to explain to someone, hey, we are still a small business. Technically, legally, we are still a small business.

• 24:19Emma Grede?

  In every way.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  IRS, but it's like they don't, they don't think because it's me and because I have a lot of followers. They see the business, like they see me and the business interchangeable. They they think six million followers is like six million in revenue. I don't know what it like kind of cheers with people.

• 24:33Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  So when you start something, if you're somebody that is like new to the industry, not a content creator, doesn't have a lot of followers. You know, you get a little bit more like, okay, they're a new brand, they're they're still working off the kinks. But girl, if you have six million followers, you better figure it out, you better figure it out yesterday.

• 24:50Emma Grede?

  Well, because there's also you have people watching you. So let's talk about the, let's talk about the start because Forever Mood, you decided to start and you weren't thinking about it as like this big business. How did you fund it? Did you have to go out and raise capital? Did you self fund? What did that look like? Because I feel like I read something somewhere in my research that was kind of along the lines of it was kind of difficult for you to raise. Because there had been like complexities with maybe things that you'd said in the past or done in the past or brands that you'd worked with in the past. That made it even more difficult for you as a black woman to go out and raise the capital to start this brand.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Now, I don't actually like, I can't prove that, but sometimes I do feel like, hmm, are you punishing me? Did I drag one of your brands? It's fine, I ain't gonna stop them. No, I'm just kidding. But, um, no, we are fully self funded up until now, still fully. We have not.

• 25:46Emma Grede?

  Chosen to be self funded or you felt like it was just impossible to raise capital?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  We've had conversations, but like, nothing has really materialized just yet. I'm sure one day it'll probably happen, but we fully took.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  A good chunk of money to start it. And it's so, it's, it's crazy because one, it was way more expensive to launch the brand than we initially anticipated. And then because, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this.

• 26:17Emma Grede?

  Don't say it if you don't feel comfortable saying it.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  It was like a quarter of a million.

• 26:21Emma Grede?

  Yeah, that's it. I mean, it's a lot of money.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  It was a lot more than I thought.

• 26:24Emma Grede?

  It's not a lot of money, but I think it's really important for people to understand because it was your money.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  But also it was like my neck on the line.

• 26:32Emma Grede?

  This is what I'm saying. It's your money. It's your reputation. And it's not like you have like a lot of quarter of a millions to just put into things willy nilly. So it would have meant an enormous amount to you. So this was like money that you had basically made that you were then investing in yourself. Okay, okay.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Collectively too, like it wasn't, I don't think that some was like the first week, you know what I mean? Like collectively, like within the first year, probably.

• 26:56Emma Grede?

  Yes, well, because it drips. That's how it goes.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, I know. But, but also we had to completely restructure because when we started the business, Emma, like what we thought was supposed to be or was going to be like six months of inventory, basically sold out in four hours.

• 27:12Emma Grede?

  Which is a good problem, but a problem nevertheless.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  It's frightening.

• 27:17Emma Grede?

  Yeah, frightening.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  I looked at Dennis and I was like, close the laptop, please. I literally felt like I was going hysterical because I was just like, there's no way.

• 27:27Emma Grede?

  At the same time, being like so, so happy.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  I was, I was scared.

• 27:30Emma Grede?

  You were scared. So tell us, what did, what did the business look like in the beginning? Like, what did you do? It's you and it's Dennis and talk to me about the product and how you started.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  We got introduced to like a, I guess like an incubator, like a manufacturing company. So they already had been creating candles for themselves. They had their own brand and then they were doing it for other companies. And they were like, yeah, we'll just like do it for you, white label. So we're like, okay, great. Like I can pick all the fragrances. I can customize. And they were like, yes, absolutely. We already have the team in place. Like everything's already in place, whatever we do. So it was a good arrangement until it wasn't. And I will say it was a great start.

• 28:13Emma Grede?

  Okay. What wasn't good about it? Cause I feel like this is the trap that people walk into, right? It's like somebody knows something you don't know.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:20Emma Grede?

  And they can provide something that you desperately need and you're like, great, let's go. But what did that look like when it went wrong?

• 28:26Speaker 01

  When it went wrong, it became very apparent that there was a severe lack of transparency.

• 28:33Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  About things they should not have been not being transparent about. Costs a lot of things, like it would be like, oh, we're capable of doing this. And then they were very much not. So we ended up like, it's like a divorce, cause you like go into business directly with them. And you're like married and your finances are intertwined and your day to day lives are intertwined and you're like friendly with their employees. And then when we decided like, okay, I think it's time for us to just amicably try to work our way to something that has a bit more structure in place. Oh my God, it's not just like a month of going your separate ways. It took us like well over a year.

• 29:18Emma Grede?

  To to untangle yourself.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Yes. And then we had a warehouse with them that we went into business with, with a five year lease.

• 29:26Emma Grede?

  Oh, oh, what do you wish you'd have done differently?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Not that.

• 29:31Emma Grede?

  Not sign that contract.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  We did not need that building.

• 29:34Emma Grede?

  Isn't it so, it's so hard in the beginning because you're trying to find a trusted partner. I mean, look, what I've done in the past and I've had good suppliers and vendors and bad supplier and vendors. And I would say almost every business that I've had that's been successful has started with a vendor partnership, a supplying partnership that has just stood the test of time. And it's so interesting because I remember it like it was yesterday with Good American.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:03Emma Grede?

  And still to this day, we are almost nine, 10 years down the line. I am still making, I'd say 20% of our assortment with the factory that we started with, because they were an amazing vendor and amazing supplier. But you don't always know.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  You don't.

• 30:18Emma Grede?

  Questions to ask. You don't always know how to vet that person. You don't always know the personalities that are involved. So I guess you guys just fell foul to. Inexperienced, like what do you chalk it up to?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, yes. And also, like, most of my background was working with, like, beauty and cosmetics. So asking my fellow founder friends, they would, you know, they didn't have as much knowledge to pass along in terms of working with fragrance, candles specifically, vendors and that aspect. So we just kind of had to, like, take a bet. But, you know, I gotta, I gotta take my own advice. Like, I was never gonna launch if we didn't make that mistake. And so, listen.

• 30:58Emma Grede?

  It got you out, it got you in the market.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:00Emma Grede?

  You had an amazing, you had an amazing start.

• 31:12Emma Grede?

  I'm trying to understand where the company kind of is now, like, because you're at Sephora.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:17Emma Grede?

  Like, which I'm sure for you must have been like the dream.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  It was something that I was like excited about, but I, I knew very early on that I did not want a retail partnership to define who we were. I'm actually glad that we did this because initially I was like terrified of doing this, but then it was like, we should like wait until we kind of understand, like, we find our own footing first before we like just get thrust it. Because Sephora actually, Sephora was like knocking on my door years before we started on, started working on Forever Mood. Because they heard I was working on other things and they were like, we just want to know what Jackie's working on. They were like excited and eager to work with me, which I really like because they really do put their money where their mouth is. Their commitment to really putting the 15% in the 15% pledge starts even before the products.

• 32:05Emma Grede?

  Absolutely.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Like, they don't play. They do not play.

• 32:08Emma Grede?

  No, it's the support and it's the.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  1,000%.

• 32:11Emma Grede?

  It's the mentorship, it's the guidance, it's the, you know, the seminars and the meetings and the get togethers and the advice. It's like they really walk the walk and talk the talk.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  They for sure do.

• 32:21Emma Grede?

  Full credit for that. And I know not everybody has the same experience, but I think in the grand scheme of retailers that really put their money where their mouth is and support founders, they really, really do it.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:33Emma Grede?

  What did getting on those shelves actually require for you guys? And what changed operationally after you were in Sephora?

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Ordering way more product. So that was like a big adjustment because it was like, well, yeah, like. We get high volume orders on our D to C website, but like it's different when you're in a retailer. Way different. And then also, you know, Sephora, they want you on kind of like on a calendar. So, and they're like two years out sometimes and it's like, whoa, girl. We're trying to recover from the last six months, boo. Like, can I catch up? Like, it's, it's.

• 33:08Emma Grede?

  You're a baby business.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  You're a baby business.

• 33:11Emma Grede?

  Inside a monster.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  And they're ready to go. One thing I love about Sephora, though, is they love, you know, they love it in the kitchen moment. So they love sitting down, being like, we just want to know what you're working on. Like, we just want to know what's on the pipeline. Um, so that's really exciting and that has allowed me to think a lot more forward in terms of launches and stuff. And to be way more proactive. It definitely felt like it lit a fire under us because we had to quickly learn how to adjust to work around the retail, calendar, retail.

• 33:40Emma Grede?

  Has it been lucrative in what you imagined it would be?

• 33:43Speaker 01

  I went into it not expecting it to be that, no. And in fact, I did not want that to be the majority of our business and to this day, it's still not.

• 33:51Emma Grede?

  Say more about that, why not?

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Cause I need ownership, boo. Like, I need to like, I need to know that people are coming for us. So the byproduct of going to a Sephora is like, you love us and it happens to be a Sephora. But I want the customer who's pulling up and buying. Cause if it's out of stock on Sephora, if your product's not that great, you're not going to be excited enough to like go straight to the website and order it. But when I like something, if it's sold on an Ulta, if it's sold on a Nordstrom, I'm finding that product.

• 34:21Emma Grede?

  Of course you're finding that product. I also think it's a really good note for anyone that's building a brand, that a single retailer destination brand is not a brand. Because then you're at the mercy of that retailer, right? And that has nothing to do with just Sephora. It's the same if you're just Nordstrom or just Ulta or just anything. It's like you have to have a diversified offering. And I think that we could name countless brands that have all their eggs in one basket, meaning that they are entirely beholden to one retailer. And guess who runs those brands? The retailer.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  And you have no leverage.

• 34:54Emma Grede?

  Not. Not the founder. And so that is just a recipe for disaster.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:00Emma Grede?

  Talk to me about what you think the recipe is for a successful creator brand, given what you know and where you are.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  I think personal detachment is really important. So the answer to this will probably vary depending on who you ask. But you know, some people love being front and center and the face of and the name of. And I don't think that's a bad thing, but I do think that comes with challenges. Because then you quite literally are the brand. But I and Dennis, my co-founder, really wanted the community to be the brand.

• 35:32Emma Grede?

  What's your aim? Like, what are you trying to build? What would you wish for this brand?

• 35:36Speaker 01

  I don't need a billion dollar valuation. I don't care. Like, my standards are lower, Emma. Like, honestly, I don't, I don't care about that. I don't.

• 35:44Emma Grede?

  Yes, I think that more founders shouldn't care about that.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  I, I don't really care about that.

• 35:48Emma Grede?

  I think it's wild where we are right now because most businesses don't get billion dollar valuations. Most businesses are not unicorns, but that doesn't mean you can't make a really good living, employ people, have a nice life, make money off of them. Like, the two things can be true. You can have a business that's not worth a billion dollars and it still be a great business.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  A great business that you can pass on for generations. Like, I want to continue to build a company and a brand that really fosters like a healthy work environment, that centers community, that also centers luxury that's still attainable and like aspirational. Because that was also the thing that like really motivated us to start Forever Mood is I felt like everything was either too kitschy or like way too out of reach. And there was nothing in between.

• 36:42Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  I really wanted fragrance to be like a little less stuffy. Like, fragrance, you know, like back in the day when we would buy fragrance, we would go to the mall and you'd have this like strange man with pants that were too damn tight, putting a little fragrance on a little blotter and being like, smell this. And it's like, girl, buy. Like, I'm just trying to go to Zara. Can you please get out of my face? You know what I mean? Like, it's not fun. There's nothing like, I don't even know what, what are you selling me? And I, and I wanted to create a completely different experience for the average fragrance consumer. And I feel like we've done that really well. And I want to continue to do that. Because as much as you can say you love perfume, Most consumers, and I don't say this to be insulting, I'm saying this like factually, like have no clue what it means if I say something is ylang ylang for like, they don't

• 37:26Speaker 01

  know what that smells like. They know it smells good.

• 37:28Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  That's why the name of the brand is Forever Mood, because every single thing we launch really centers like, how does it make you feel?

• 37:38Emma Grede?

  Is there any part of you that cares about the money? Like, forget the billion-dollar brand thing. Like, how focused on building a real business that is worth something or brings you money are you?

• 37:52Speaker 01

  I love money. That's the best part. But it's definitely not, I don't think that's the motivating factor in general. I think if you're motivated by money, you'll just do anything. Like, you won't have no standards. You'll just do anything for a check. Is it important? Hell, yeah. Especially as a woman, like, some people were like, oh, my God, you're so, poverty is traumatizing. I ain't going back. So I'm gonna put every single thing in place to make sure that if I'm not, especially if I'm not enjoying this, because this job is hard, gonna make money. Yeah, like, I'm gonna, I like money. I don't feel bad about saying that. May not be a billion.

• 38:32Emma Grede?

  Why would you?

• 38:33Speaker 01

  I mean, oh, gosh, every day, I feel like, especially with content creators, you know, like, you're supposed to be relatable, you're supposed to be humble. And those are great things, but that's not the only part of me, you know?

• 38:43Emma Grede?

  And also, listen, I don't think it's just for content creators. I think it's more specifically for women.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  You know what's so crazy? Like, you're made to feel really bad when you're poor, because you made poor decisions, you aren't leveling up in life, you probably didn't have the ideal education, you also can't pay rent, you're constantly cursed. And I didn't grow up in a household where I was raised around a lot of financial literacy. That's why I loved your episode with Melody Hobson.

• 39:08Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Because I live for like, teach them young, like, yes, girl. Like, I really respect that. That was the exact opposite of my upbringing. But you're made to feel terrible when you come from a certain, especially in this country, when you come from a certain socioeconomic status, it's all you, you just haven't worked hard enough, you haven't done this, and then you make money, I'm still supposed to feel bad? Girl, bye, please. Yeah, I've already, I've already, I told you, I came from the trenches. I'm not going back. But it's like a mental thing in a way, because it's like, it's your fault if you're poor, but then if you make something of yourself, you're a terrible person? Absolutely not.

• 39:45Emma Grede?

  Absolutely not. What do you think, when it comes to kind of like financial and legal lessons, what has been critical to protecting your longevity? Because again, you've been in the business for a long time. Do you think there were things that you learned or things that happened that have kept you safe and have kept you like where you are in a good position?

• 40:07Speaker 01

  I have to say, shout out to my man, girl, because his background in investment banking and his background in finance in general has truly opened my eyes to so much. I remember there was a time where I was going to give away a really big equity share of the business in exchange for working with someone who, at the time, because I didn't understand what that really meant.

• 40:38Emma Grede?

  Like a staff member, you mean?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Kind of, yeah, basically. And it was huge, it was like forty percent. And what they were requesting-

• 40:47Emma Grede?

  What were you thinking? Why would you have done that?

• 40:48Speaker 01

  I thought it was like, oh, well, if I work with them, is that not? Dennis was like, hell, no. And then I was like, okay, well, what would be more sensible, like twenty percent? And then he, then he was like, okay, what's twenty percent of four hundred million dollars? Do you think that's worth what this person is doing for you currently? And I was like,

• 41:13Speaker 01

  No, not really. And I was like, oh, that's really like, it really came. And you know what? He also didn't make me feel embarrassed for like not knowing stuff like that.

• 41:21Emma Grede?

  Fair.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Because I didn't know, like I genuinely, this was before we started, by the way, this was like before the brand existed. But I didn't really understand what equity meant.

• 41:33Emma Grede?

  Fair enough.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  In the long run, like I didn't understand, I didn't understand, I think I didn't have a big understanding of like,

• 41:40Speaker 01

  what they were asking for, like they were trying to sink their teeth into me. And he was just like, no, it doesn't work that way. And now these conversations, instead of them being like, should we talk about 20% equity? It's more like 0.5? That sounds fair. I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. All right. Maybe we're hiring a consultant and like, they make some of these consultants, they make a lot of money.

• 42:07Emma Grede?

  They make a lot of money.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Hundreds of thousands, but let's talk maybe what an equity share could look like, you know? So that is the invaluable stuff that I've been able to learn over the years. Thankfully, just being able to do this with someone who knows better and understands like, what these part, like what does this stuff actually mean? And what are you giving up? You know, like what is this person really asking for?

• 42:29Emma Grede?

  Do you have a team around you? Cause I'm assuming more in the influencer days, you would have had a manager and an agent and a publicist. Like what does that look like now? And what has the shift been from the content creator days to you being a founder?

• 42:42Speaker 01

  It's really scary. There's a lot of teams, a lot of teams within teams. There's a bunch of different mini teams around me. And like, as of recently, I've had to learn that, okay, a lot of these teams are not communicating with each other and we gotta be all on the same page. It was really an adjustment for a while because there is so much support. But at the same time, it's a lot of working parts that sometimes are not always moving together. So I feel like the past two years, I've been learning how to like, okay, let's make sure that the machine is like all, everybody's writing in the car together. Yeah.

• 43:18Emma Grede?

  And who runs your business today?

• 43:20Speaker 01

  My business as in me, myself.

• 43:22Emma Grede?

  Both, actually. Who runs like when it's you, yourself and when it's forever mood?

• 43:26Speaker 01

  I mean, it's essentially me and the teams that work around me. So.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Me, I like, I have editors, I have a producer, I have a, like I said, editing team. They're all working around me and they're all working in support of me.

• 43:42Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Basically.

• 43:43Emma Grede?

  And then in the, and then in the business, are you the CEO of the business?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  No, hell no. Dennis is pretty much like operations manager.

• 43:51Emma Grede?

  Got it.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  CEO and it'll be probably like that for the foreseeable future.

• 43:58Emma Grede?

  Yeah. Am I wrong in thinking that there was a pullback around your social media presence at some point?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, this came up earlier, right? Yes, girl, this was necessary. This was, I was going through a midlife crisis. So it was like 2020, it was the year we started Forever Mood.

• 44:13Emma Grede?

  Yep.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  And obviously the world was shut down. Nobody was leaving their houses, nobody was going anywhere. The world was in like a state of crisis, so, and then also like, nobody was wearing makeup. So it just felt out of place doing YouTube tutorials at this time. Cause it, it just felt like a little weird, it felt a little inappropriate, you know? But then I still had my audience being like, no, this is escapism, like you should still keep uploading. But it just didn't, it didn't really feel appropriate. And then that was when I realized, oh, I've actually like never taken a break from YouTube, ever. And that's not normal.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Like at that point, cause this is 2026, at that point I had been on YouTube for over a decade.

• 45:01Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  And I had never.

• 45:03Emma Grede?

  Never taken a break?

• 45:03Speaker 01

  No, cause girl, you know.

• 45:04Emma Grede?

  What does never taking a break look like? You're uploading how much, how frequently?

• 45:08Speaker 01

  No more than two weeks.

• 45:09Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  So here's what happened. I took a year off from YouTube, but then, I'm a creative person, so I still wanted to do something. But I was like, okay, well, I love all these like cleaning tutorials and I love home decor. But I've never really like, cause people, people on YouTube do not like a pivot. They do not like a rebrand, they don't like when you do. Girl, go put that damn lipstick back on. Like, I don't care what vacuum cleaner you're using, I didn't ask. So I never really felt like I had the freedom to do something different. But then I was like, oh, okay, well, you know, like, what if I started a separate Instagram account? Where I can do everything non-makeup related?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  And that's what I did.

• 45:49Emma Grede?

  And this is lavishly.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  This is lavishly.

• 45:52Emma Grede?

  Lavishly, lavishly, Jack.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  So in 2020, I was like, you know what? While I'm not doing YouTube, let's just do something different. And it was also, I think it was also more cathartic than I realized at the time because I wanted to start doing more luxury content. And I went into it knowing, okay, this is going to rub some people the wrong way. And that's okay. You don't have to be for everybody. But I think at that point, I had already acknowledged, like, I don't really want to be for everybody. Like, it's okay, you know? And also, like I said before, like, I'd always been the makeup girl. So I kind of feel like, well, you weren't married to relatable Jackie anyway because I always just talked about makeup.

• 46:30Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  So this feels, I feel like I'm allowed to kind of go out there.

• 46:35Emma Grede?

  Yeah, you're allowed to evolve. You're allowed to change.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do feel like I was allowed to do that. And I think starting that separate Instagram account was like, okay, let's keep my core audience intact. And for everybody else who wants to dabble in something different.

• 46:47Emma Grede?

  You got something, you got something new over here.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  We got something new over there.

• 47:00Emma Grede?

  Talk to me about, I think it's such an interesting time in history, actually, that you started Forever Mood because it was like post George Floyd. This unimaginable thing had happened and the ripple effects of what that meant in our country from a political and economic point of view. But more in culture and specifically in business and black business was kind of unimaginable. And I've spoken to so many brands. I see it in many, many things that I'm involved with and invested in that they had this like unbelievable kind of start trajectory or uplift in their business that fell off

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 47:43Emma Grede?

  in an unbelievable way. Did you experience any of that?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  First of all, nothing could have prepared me for the uprise of support like that. Like, I had never seen anything like that. But I'm going to be honest with you, Emma, as quiet as it's kept, most people don't really credit.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  The way that they should, I genuinely feel like, and you know, people can disagree, but I genuinely feel like the makeup community was kind of like years ahead on that specifically.

• 48:12Emma Grede?

  I agree with you. I agree with you.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Definitely feel like.

• 48:15Emma Grede?

  You mean, you mean like black creators supporting black owned brands?

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Like, like prioritizing?

• 48:20Emma Grede?

  It's not a, it's not a debate. It, it, I think that there's actually data supporting it.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Good.

• 48:25Emma Grede?

  The kind of lifestyle wellness, beauty makeup community as a whole was

• 48:30Speaker 01

  catapulted it.

• 48:31Emma Grede?

  Way quicker than anybody else.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Years before and, and people before Fenty, like some people say that Fenty, I'm like, no boo.

• 48:38Emma Grede?

  It was happening before.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  We were at grounds that like, it was actually like, everything that led up to Fenty, that's why Fenty did so good.

• 48:44Emma Grede?

  Hmm.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  I remember one time it was me, it was another creator, Alyssa Ashley, another creator, Alyssa Forever, if I remember correctly. We started this thing called the Bomb Challenge, black owned makeup brands. And we literally had to explain to people like, hey, like, black owned makeup brands are not just for black people. We started that conversation in like 2016, 2017. It was that early.

• 49:03Emma Grede?

  I think it was like 2016.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Before 2020, before. So actually like 2020 was just kind of like catapulting. It was actually kind of like gratifying to see because it was the first time I've seen non-black people really say, I'm prioritizing spending, you know, from a black founder. And it was just like, oh my God, like that became our norm in a way. So.

• 49:23Emma Grede?

  But it came and it went, right?

• 49:25Speaker 01

  I think it's some, for some reason, I don't know what it was about 2020, that it peaked like that and then dropped down so bad. And it was just like, we were doing so good. We were doing so good. And to answer your question, we experienced definitely not as severely as a lot of other brands. But yeah, of course, naturally, like, yeah, we definitely got, and we also remember we launched in 2020. So we had that meteoric rise. And then all of the stuff that had been happening socially, politically in 2020 had drove people to want to like, reactionarily support brands, but that's, it's like, I don't want that to be the only reason. Like, I don't want you to just be giving me a pity, you know, like, I, like, I want you to like the product.

• 50:07Emma Grede?

  Do you like the product?

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Do you like the product?

• 50:09Emma Grede?

  So how are you thinking about building and stewarding this brand towards what and, and, and how in the future?

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Definitely being a global fragrance brand. Continuing to disrupt the niche fragrance space because that's what we are. We are a niche brand.

• 50:26Emma Grede?

  Great space to be in.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  It is. You can launch weird stuff.

• 50:31Emma Grede?

  Weird.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  A tomato candle and people like, yeah, living for it. There's a community for everybody.

• 50:37Emma Grede?

  Oh, for everybody.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  For everybody.

• 50:38Emma Grede?

  And also, I think that your space has become really competitive, but what it's shown is that there's so much room for, and when I say alternative, I mean like the non-big-box, big-brand fragrances, right? Like outside of a Calvin and a Dolce and a Chanel and a Dior. Like, people want, they're more individualistic in the way that they come to, you know, wanting to show their, you know, personalities. And I feel like you have a brand that's in a space that is growing like so quickly. There's so much appetite for it. So you really can build whatever type of business you want.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  I feel like we're in the like, if you know, you know, era.

• 51:19Emma Grede?

  Right, okay.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Of consumers.

• 51:21Emma Grede?

  Do you want to be in the if you know, you know, era?

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, like, what I mean is like, oh, like, if they were a scent, that people are very into like, this is like my signature, it's gate-kept. It's like, it's not, it's not a brand that's on every shelf. So people are kind of like into that vibe right now, especially, especially in the, because, you know, fragrance girls, at our core, sometimes we're a little snobbish about our signatures, what we love. And it's, it's really fascinating to see that because the opposite of that is like, oh, buying the fragrance that's like wildly popular. But if anything, I feel like now people are like, no, like, I want it to be a secret. We're, we're definitely not a secret, but you get what I'm saying.

• 51:57Emma Grede?

  I get it. Is it going to plan? Is this what you imagined when you were back in your influencer days? Or, or even when you like decided, right, I'm done with this influencing, I'm taking a break? Is this what you imagined when you said, I'm going to start a business?

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Um, I never thought that this one would be the one. To take off like this at all. But that was when, again, that was another like big milestone for like younger Jackie who's always had to like put everyone else first. Who's always had to like do what my parents told me to do. Or do the respectable thing, like go to college. Cause also I don't think you mentioned this, but like I was supposed to go to school and be a pharmacist. I dropped out of college at year two.

• 52:41Emma Grede?

  I think I just assumed because.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Yes, girl, that was my 50th life.

• 52:45Emma Grede?

  I think I imagined.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  I was supposed to go to med school. I was supposed to be a pharmacist.

• 52:49Emma Grede?

  Dreaming of YouTube for you.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Child, they were dreaming of that white coat booing it. No.

• 52:54Emma Grede?

  You were like, no, that's not what I'm doing.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  No, absolutely not. But starting Forever Mood was the first time I really did something that I just wanted to do. It wasn't expected of me. It wasn't necessarily something that people were asking for. They were asking for something completely different.

• 53:12Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  They were expecting.

• 53:14Emma Grede?

  You were supposed to just have a makeup brand.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  I was supposed to have a makeup line, of course.

• 53:17Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, I'm actually gonna do this. Just kidding.

• 53:21Emma Grede?

  I'm going in another direction.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do this. And even if it feels like I still want to do it, I just want to try it. I just want to say that like I, I, I need, I will sleep at night knowing that I did my childhood dream. Cause my, my literal childhood dream was having a perfume brand.

• 53:38Emma Grede?

  How do you think about, and listen, you're extremely young, but how do you think about?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Extremely young. I'm not that young.

• 53:43Emma Grede?

  You are young, girl. If you're not young and I'm not young, we're young. I wonder what kind of legacy looks like for you. Like beyond the, the, the business, the product and the platforms. Like, how do you want to be known in the grand scheme of things?

• 54:00Speaker 01

  In the fragrance world, which is largely still ran by white men. I want to see more black voices because black people are obsessed with scent. We interact, we're obsessed. Don't be the person. Everywhere, at the, everywhere. Socially, don't be the person that shows up somewhere without deodorant. Black people gonna flame you. Yeah, we're like obsessed with scent. We're obsessed with cleanliness, like all of it. And I want my legacy to continue.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  To stamp like the the black voice, black point of view on fragrance. Doesn't mean only for black people, obviously, but it's like, this is what.

• 54:41Emma Grede?

  It's your point of view.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  It's my point of view. It's like my storytelling.

• 54:44Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, I didn't see a lot of that in the fragrance space in general. So I'm a huge fan, by the way, I'm gonna shout out Chris Collins. Because his brand is like, oh, my god.

• 54:55Emma Grede?

  Gorge.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  It's beautiful. And he really makes sense for not just black men, but like, it's, it literally is like from a black person's nose, like, beautiful, the storytelling, Harlem Candle Company.

• 55:09Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love Harlem Candle Company.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Like, can you think of a more blacker, like, part of the US than Harlem? Like, I just, I, I, I love the storytelling and the point of view. But make it for everybody, but like, this is what aligns with me.

• 55:25Emma Grede?

  It's about distinction. It's about having a point of view and doing something.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 55:30Emma Grede?

  Like, it comes from a place that, that is not there. It's not being thought about in the same way. And so that gives you huge distinction.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:37Emma Grede?

  So what do you still aspire to?

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Definitely having a global brand. I don't see me wanting to work forever. I think that eventually, when Forever Mood gets to like, a certain milestone, personally for me, I would be okay with letting it go. I'm definitely not one of those people that's like, work until you die. Like, no, girl.

• 55:57Emma Grede?

  That's me. I'm not work until you die.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  You are a workaholic.

• 56:00Emma Grede?

  I can never imagine that I will not have a job.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  I mean, I'll be doing something, I'm sure, but like, eventually, I don't.

• 56:07Emma Grede?

  You're like, no, I wanna like.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  I want it to be for fun.

• 56:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  If that even is a thing. I want it to be for fun.

• 56:12Emma Grede?

  Do you have a, a number? Is there like, a place, a space, a number?

• 56:15Speaker 01

  1,000%.

• 56:16Emma Grede?

  Give me the number.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  I can't because then.

• 56:18Emma Grede?

  Give me the number!

• 56:21Emma Grede?

  Come on, just, just a glimmer. Like, tell me where you're, where is your head at? Where would you be satisfied? You'd be like, that's satisfied.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  I can't say it on camera.

• 56:31Emma Grede?

  I'm gonna make you tell me after.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  I can't, I'm too African for this question. Girls, bad ju- girl, like, I can't say it on camera.

• 56:38Emma Grede?

  Okay, can I just tell you why, you, you, even if you don't say it now on camera?

• 56:41Speaker 01

  I have a number.

• 56:42Emma Grede?

  Why, I want you to start saying it. Let me just tell you. When I had my first company in my twenties, in my head, I said, if I could sell this thing for 20 million, I would die. I'd be so happy. And it came true.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 57:00Emma Grede?

  By the way, the company was not worth it. Secondly of all, I don't even know why 20 million. Like, I don't like, I don't know. I, I, I don't know why that was the number. Sometimes, you know, when you say these things.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  Okay, fair.

• 57:14Emma Grede?

  You create a plan for these things.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Okay, fair.

• 57:16Emma Grede?

  You work towards these things and then they happen. So I'll get the number out for you off the camera.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Okay, fair.

• 57:21Emma Grede?

  Um, okay, we're gonna move to rapid fire.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Oh, I love a rapid fire, yes.

• 57:25Emma Grede?

  I'm the worst at rapid fire. I say every day, the worst.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  I didn't realize you're dyslexic. My husband's dyslexic.

• 57:31Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 57:32Speaker 01

  This is crazy because I feel like that's really an entrepreneur's superpower.

• 57:36Emma Grede?

  Apparently it's just been recognized by LinkedIn. Dyslexic thinking is now officially a skill.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  I think it's a skill.

• 57:42Emma Grede?

  I think it's a skill. All right, what is the first thing you do in the morning?

• 57:46Speaker 01

  I do not go on social media and I put on a sermon. So either Pastor Stephen Furtick or Sarah Jakes Roberts. One of, one of the two. Yeah, me too.

• 57:56Emma Grede?

  She's a magical girl.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  She's incredible.

• 57:58Emma Grede?

  Like a magical woman.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  She really is.

• 58:01Emma Grede?

  I'm obsessed. Watch this space, babe. Um, okay, what's the last thing you do at night?

• 58:06Speaker 01

  I eat popcorn.

• 58:08Emma Grede?

  Do you?

• 58:08Speaker 01

  I do. I need to stop, actually. And people are like, microwave popcorn has carcinogens.

• 58:14Emma Grede?

  No, first of all, microwave popcorn is.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  I don't like stove top.

• 58:17Emma Grede?

  No.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  I don't care if it's short in my lifespan.

• 58:19Emma Grede?

  You don't like stove top?

• 58:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 58:21Emma Grede?

  But you like, just out of a package, just the ready pot?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  I don't care if it's GMO. I don't care.

• 58:26Emma Grede?

  No, sometimes, listen, I eat a lot of bacon. I think that you've got one bad thing. No, because it's like you said, the GMOs. It's like, it's a carcinogenic. Like, I'm not giving out bacon.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  I like bagged popcorn, microwave meat down.

• 58:37Emma Grede?

  One thing.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  That's one thing.

• 58:39Emma Grede?

  One thing. Okay, one's gotta go. Blush, mascara, or lip liner?

• 58:43Speaker 01

  I have good lashes, so mascara, bye. But not lashes, though. I can still wear my lashes, yes.

• 58:49Emma Grede?

  You still got your lashes. She's still got a full face.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  Strategy, okay.

• 58:52Emma Grede?

  Ah, what's the last beauty product you used to the very last drop?

• 58:57Speaker 01

  It's actually expired, so I had to throw it away.

• 59:00Emma Grede?

  No.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  It was a concealer.

• 59:01Emma Grede?

  Concealer?

• 59:02Speaker 01

  It was starting to burn. I was like, ooh, girl.

• 59:04Emma Grede?

  What concealer? It's like, I'm gonna go.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  I don't wanna drag them. You know what, though? If it was tingling, it's probably made with like, not as many preservatives. So that's probably what it was.

• 59:13Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a concealer. And I shouldn't have been using it anyway. It was empty, so.

• 59:17Emma Grede?

  It was sorry.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  It was that milk concealer. It's a good concealer.

• 59:19Emma Grede?

  Okay, fine. It's a good concealer.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  It was good, yeah.

• 59:20Emma Grede?

  It's a good concealer. What's an unpopular skincare opinion that you have?

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Ooh, this is hard, because it's like, person to person. So I prefer mineral sunscreen. I prefer the ashy ones. It's really bad, Emma.

• 59:34Emma Grede?

  I can't.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  I know.

• 59:35Emma Grede?

  I can't.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  But hear me out, though. Zinc oxide, if you have oily combination or acne-prone skin, is incredible for your skin. Whenever I wear a chemical sunscreen, I always break out.

• 59:47Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 59:47Speaker 01

  Every time.

• 59:48Emma Grede?

  You're gonna walk around with that, like, ashy face?

• 59:50Speaker 01

  I have to. Well, you know what? It's great underneath makeup, so that's how I get away with it.

• 59:54Emma Grede?

  Okay, fine. So then you just slap some makeup on over it?

• 59:57Speaker 01

  But I'd rather have an ash film over my face that I can wash off at the end of the day, than have dark marks, because it works better.

• 1:00:04Emma Grede?

  Okay. What is a book that changed your life?

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Well, what makes you think I read, Emma? No, I'm just kidding. I really, I really actually like Anastasia Sarai's memoir.

• 1:00:16Emma Grede?

  Oh, you do?

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  I really did, yeah. I, I, I have no.

• 1:00:19Emma Grede?

  I have it upstairs, and I will read it now because you said.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's gone through some grit, like, damn, like.

• 1:00:24Emma Grede?

  She's a, she's a superwoman.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's, she's insane, like, in the best way possible. I love her. But it was a really, it was a really good book.

• 1:00:31Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  I really enjoyed seeing her from the bottom story.

• 1:00:36Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah. It certainly was from the bottom, I tell you.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Like, I had, yeah, like, I had no idea she was, like, leaving a, like, she escaped a communist country, like, it was some realty in that book.

• 1:00:44Emma Grede?

  I mean, now, that's a journey. That woman has been on a journey.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Emma Grede?

  Amazing, my darling. Thank you so much.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:00:51Emma Grede?

  Loved every second.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:00:57Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favourite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Executive producer, Ashley McShan. Derek Brown. And me. Our executive producers from Odyssey, Leah Reese-Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren Legrosso. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.

• 1:01:42Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meeke, Shaun Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you could DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelt G-R-E-D-E. That's aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.