Charles Barkley on the Dream Team, Being Controversial & Retiring from Television

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find The always outspoken NBA legend and current television analyst Charles Barkley joins The Pivot in a wide open discussion on topics from his playing days, competing against MJ, criticism of his recent political and racial stances to his current tv career winding down. With only two years left on his television contract, Barkley is ready to sign off from the public eye and at peace with going into full retirement. “Fame is hard, a lot of prices to pay with fame,” he explains to Ryan, Fred and Channing and it’s ok to step back from it. Against social media and calling out people who hide behind it, Barkley explains the different world we live in right now and how everything thought and statement is under a microscope. Ignoring opinions that he is too controversial, Barkley defends his stances on certain hot topics recently especially with race crimes, police treatment and politics. Barkley credits his biggest inspiration, his grandmother, for his work ethic and staying out of trouble as he reminisces how he earned the larger than life nicknames from being 300 pounds playing college ball. Sharing stories about the 1992 Dream Team, Barkley goes into detail about how he believed he was the best player in the world until he got around Michael Jordan and laughed about the good ole’ days. Fred says Barkley never received enough credit for his contributions during that time while Channing challenges him saying he didn’t get the credit because he didn’t warrant that type of MJ attention! Barkley ends the episode addressing the elephant in room of people always judging him about not winning a championship- he defends his career saying “Hey, we got to the ok corral- we just didn’t win it, and I’m good with that”. Join Prize Picks now to compete against Channing, Fred and Ryan throughout the NBA Finals. Get a free $100 matched with your first $100 spent when you enter the code PIVOT. Start playing now: https://bit.ly/PrizePicksPivot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  What up, boy?

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  What up, my boy?

• 0:31Speaker 01

  I'm living, as they say.

• 0:32Ryan Clark?

  Hey, they kept you...

• 0:32Speaker 01

  What up, big dog?

• 0:33Ryan Clark?

  You good?

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm good.

• 0:34Ryan Clark?

  They kept you on till...

• 0:36Channing Crowder?

  Came with the collars, dude.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Dude, we always...

• 0:38Ryan Clark?

  They kept you on late, man.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  And they told me y'all went to my spot, and I was like, "I miss y'all."

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Because we went in there.

• 0:45Ryan Clark?

  Y'all went late?

• 0:45Speaker 01

  We always go late. We don't get off till that time. We always go late.

• 0:50Channing Crowder?

  We sure dropped your name. Charles was here early, right? Nah, I was like, "Well, yeah, I'm Charles."

• 0:54Speaker 01

  No, I got there probably like 1:30.

• 0:57Fred Taylor?

  He's a country boy.

• 0:58Ryan Clark?

  That's them T and T shoes, right? That's how Shaq came on. With the T and T joints.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  I got them from him.

• 1:05Ryan Clark?

  Y'all [bleep] don't believe in socks.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  I saw Shaq with these, and I had to get me a pair. Get me two pair. I got a black and brown.

• 1:11Fred Taylor?

  You had a lot of input in your Nike shoes?

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, yeah, they did. But the main thing, I just wanted my shoes light.

• 1:17Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Because I played a couple games in MJ's shoes. Them [bleep] was so heavy. I was like, "God."

• 1:21Ryan Clark?

  But he could really jump.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  I know, he could really jump. I was like, "Yo, man, how you playing these [bleep] guys?"

• 1:50Ryan Clark?

  Well, what's up, man? We back on the pivot. It's been some, it's been some big guests, man. It's been some Hall of Fame-type guests, and we gonna keep it going, man. Freaky Freddie, Channing, and we got Hall of Famer Charles Barkley.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  What's up, man? I saw y'all had the big fella up in here.

• 2:02Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, man. He talked bad about you, too, off air, though.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love the big fella. We have so much fun. And that's the number-one thing I'm at. Man, y'all hate each other? I'm like, "Man, we just having fun on television." Our moms are like best friends, so I've known Shaq. We got to fighting one time, and they both called us in the locker room after the game and cursed us out. And we went out to dinner that night. I have no idea how his mom... And my mom, and there was a third one, named Ms. Martha, became like best friends. They would take trips together, like all the time. The only thing was crazy, my mom was spending money like I had Shaq's money. I said, "Hey, hey, hey, I don't have Shaq's money. I missed that, because you had sex too soon." I missed that by like, I missed that by like three or four years.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  And even when my mom was really sick, Shaq's mom came and spent her last couple of days with her. And she spoke at the funeral. But, so me and Shaq been together, but man, I love messing with him on television.

• 2:59Ryan Clark?

  But like, sometimes when you watch this show, I, I get uncomfortable. You know what I'm saying? Like, I do a show with Channing, so I understand having a co-host who's unprofessional.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying? Like, I, I get that.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  What's that again?

• 3:11Ryan Clark?

  Having a co-host that's unprofessional. But you know, like, like even, I watched you one time and y'all were talking about Jay Wright retiring.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:19Ryan Clark?

  And you were messing with Kenny about African-American studies.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:23Ryan Clark?

  You know, you were talking about paying players. Does it ever truly get uncomfortable on the show where y'all kind of got to talk about it afterwards?

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Nah, only time it gets uncomfortable. Shaq is very sensitive. He's very sensitive. We try to explain to him at times, like there is a strategy in basketball. He doesn't understand. He's always been the biggest, baddest MF in the world. So he never had to have a strategy. Like, when he played against this guy, this guy, this guy, he just like, "I'm bigger, stronger, faster, I'm better." But like, for me and Kenny, like, when Kenny's like, "Well, when I have to play against Gary Payton, then I got to play against John Stockton, I have to have two different game plans." So when I play against Karl Malone, you know, Tim Duncan, Kevin McHale, I have to have a different game plan. So he gets mad when we're like, "Yeah, man, there is a strategy to this stuff." Then he start, "You ain't won nothing."

• 4:13Speaker 01

  That's when I know I get him. That's when I know I get him. Because I was like, "Yeah, man, we can have a, a basketball strategy conversation. I know I didn't win, but like, there is a strategy out here." But it's funny though, because... I always feel like, I can understand he's never had to worry about a strategy. But like, the rest of us gotta have a strategy. Like, for you, you can't cover Jerry Rice like you would a Michael Irvin, or Andre Risen. I mean, so, and he doesn't understand that. But it's funny when I love to get him going. But like I said, I know when I got him, when he goes like, when he starts stuttering, he goes right to the championship. And you know, I'm gonna just throw gasoline on the fire at that boy.

• 4:56Fred Taylor?

  Speaking of throwing things, take us back to the night you threw the ball at him.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  You know, I pride myself on being a quick thinker. We got tangled up, I pushed him, he pushed me, and then I said, "Well, there's 20,000 people here.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  I can't let him do that shit and get away with it." And I said, "It's gonna be, they gonna break the thing up quickly." So I hit him, and then we went at it. But like, I was thinking really fast on my feet, because like I say, I'm not gonna fight that big old dude. Not unless I got something in my hand, or I can get to something.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  But I was thinking quicker, like, they gonna break it up quickly. As you see, I grabbed him so he couldn't throw hands quickly. But it was really, it's just, you know, sometimes you got, sometimes you just gotta fight.

• 5:47Channing Crowder?

  I gotta ask you, man, because we talked to some, a couple of other people, basketball dudes. Them dudes ain't built like that. Like, what percentage of the NBA, back in your day and now, really, really is gonna lock up if something happen?

• 6:00Speaker 01

  2%, 2%. We're not built like, you know, one of the things I admire about football players, I played football for one day. And I was like-

• 6:11Channing Crowder?

  One day?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  One day. And I was like, "Yeah, this ain't for me." I played one day, and we used to joke with my coach, you put people on the defensive line, like, if you on the offensive line or defensive line, you're a real football player. I mean, because you getting, you hitting every play. Like those other positions, you can sneak around and hide a little bit, but if you on the offensive line, defensive line, you gonna get hit every play. So, I tried it, I was like, "Yeah, this ain't for me." Because I remember I was exhausted. Had my head down, and coach said, "I'll see you tomorrow." I was like, "Wait, wait, we not doing this tomorrow." I'm not doing this tomorrow. I'm not doing this tomorrow. But that's the reason football and boxing are my two favorite sports. Because you have to have some special in here to do that for a living.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Like basketball, tennis, golf. Very talented. But like, to play football or box, you got to be all in and willing to sacrifice your body. And that, I'm just not built like that. And I don't think most basketball players are built like that. Because, you know, I think, not saying they're soft or whatever, like, but the ability to just go out there and get punched in the mouth every day, multiple times. Not many people in the world are built like that, to be honest with you.

• 7:27Ryan Clark?

  I tell you what, though. I'm about to ask a real question, because we've been talking about this light basketball stuff. Channing, you gonna pop open the Happy Dad? You gonna grab you one early today?

• 7:36Speaker 01

  I bust it?

• 7:36Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, y'all gonna bust it open.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  I can't get into the seltzer.

• 7:42Channing Crowder?

  Man, you gotta try this though.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  I'll try the seltzer.

• 7:45Ryan Clark?

  So you mentioned a day of football, right? So you in Leeds, Alabama. It's you and your mom.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:52Ryan Clark?

  How does that type of upbringing in Leeds, Alabama, prepare you for Philadelphia, Phoenix, Houston?

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Nothing can prepare you for Philadelphia. Nothing. You know, Philadelphia is a great city, it's a great sports town, but man, if you're not playing well, it's really not a great place to be. They always have treated me great, but I played with guys they didn't treat good. And it's tough. Growing up, it was my mother, my grandmother, and me and three brothers. And two of my brothers have died. My mother, my grandmother, and my dad, they all gone, so just me and one brother left. But, you know, poor people don't know they're poor. So I didn't even realize we were poor until later. But I think the best thing about growing up in my hometown, it's a couple thousand people. You know, there was really not a lot of opportunities to get into trouble. So, you know, you read on the news with these kids, they're out

• 8:48Speaker 01

  gang banging and doing stupid stuff. We never even worried about that. Like, we were like, let's just play basketball, or let's just hang out. And so, I'm thankful for that aspect of my life. But, man, when I went to Philadelphia, it was a shock to my system. Because I actually, other than a couple SEC schools, I really had never been out of the South. You know, we go to Baton Rouge, we go to Gainesville, we go to Ole Miss, we go to Starkville, we go to Lexington. That's pretty much the extent of my trips until I got out of college. I go to Philly and man, it was, it was a shock to the system.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  But I was so lucky that I had Moses, Doc, Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Tony, all those guys, who not only taught me, and Moses is the most important person in my basketball career. I remember, so I was the number five pick in the draft and I wasn't getting to play. Me and Moses lived in the same building and I don't want to get into it, he lived in the penthouse, I lived like on the sixth floor. He was, he was, he was Moses.

• 9:55Channing Crowder?

  You had a one one?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, he, he, he had a penthouse, I was on the sixth floor. And I said, Moses, can I come talk to you tonight? He says, sure, sure. I said, Moses, why am I not getting to play? He says, well, son, you're fat and you're lazy. Cause you know, the truth of the matter was, I was, but I had never, I was able to get by because I was so talented. Cause I played at about 300 pounds in college. And so.

• 10:22Channing Crowder?

  That's, I mean, that is the wrong amount.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was the wrong amount, that's how I got the name and all those food truck and the big dough, pizza dough boy guy, I mean, I had a bunch of, the wide load from Leeds, I mean, I had a lot of nicknames.

• 10:36Channing Crowder?

  That ain't get to you, like, you ain't tightened up after you started getting nicknames about being fat lazy?

• 10:41Speaker 01

  No, no, cause I was playing well. I mean, I was in school for three years and I led the SEC in rebounding every year. When I got to Auburn, we had never been to the March Madness and I got us there in three years, so I was having success. You know, and, and Chan, one of the problems with success is you don't really look at your flaws. You just like, I'm having success, I mean, you're 18 years old, you ain't thinking like, hey, I'm like, I must be doing something right, I'm 18 years old, I'm leading the SEC in rebounding. I led it as a sophomore, I led it as a junior. But I could get by. And when I got to the NBA, you can't get by in NBA. You have to be in shape in pro sports. That's number one thing I tell people. You have to be in shape to play pro sports. And Moses said, hey, if you fat and you lazy, if you want me to help you, I'll help you.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  And he said something that changed my life. He says, I don't even know what your playing weight should be, but let's just lose 10 pounds. And this is a guy who's already one of the all-time greats. Starts spending time with me before practice, after practice. I lost 10 pounds. I get to 290. He says, let's lose 10 more. 280, 270, 260, 250. I actually got to 240, but I had no strength and energy.

• 11:52Fred Taylor?

  I bet your head look big as hell at 240.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  I think my head was shrinking when my gut was shrinking. But no, so I got down to 250. He said, 250 is your weight. And at this point, I'm starting. And I tell people, if he had have told me in the beginning, I need to lose 50 pounds, that probably would have been overwhelming. But he said, let's lose 10 pounds. And then, like I say, once I got to 250, I was just killing people. And the rest is history. But if it wasn't for Moses, you know, because I've known guys who've eaten themselves out of the league. I mean, I don't want to call their names. I'm not trying to embarrass them about it. But there's guys I've known are eating themselves out of the NBA. But that conversation with Moses changed the whole dynamic of my career.

• 12:37Fred Taylor?

  I saw you posted somewhere saying, your grandmother gave you hell after games. She criticized you.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  My grandmother is the greatest person in my life. She was just amazing, but she used to drive me freaking nuts. Because she thought she was a player-coach. And she called me after every game and, you embarrassing me, boy. You had seven damn rebounds. I'm like, Granny, no, I don't want to hear it. You should never not get double-digit rebounds. That's the thing that got you to the NBA. I need double-digit rebound every damn night. And you got to understand, my grandmother's crazy. So growing up, to make money, she sold alcohol on the weekend.

• 13:20Fred Taylor?

  Liquor or rubbing alcohol?

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Moonshine. Just bottles of alcohol and beers. So from Friday night to Sunday night.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  We had like the neighborhood bar. And me and my brothers were kind of like, we was heaping. Like, but she had like a closet with like probably eight to ten bottles of alcohol. And a refrigerator full of beer. Cause there's really no black bars in my hometown. And like I say, and so. Starting at Friday night at six o'clock.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Guys would start coming over playing cards and drinking. And they wouldn't leave until Sunday night around six. And it was a fight, hey, and my grandmother walked around with a six shooter. And she was, she was hilarious now that I think about it.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Because, let me tell you something. It was a fight every weekend. Because the guys would come with, they'd just come straight from cashing their paycheck. To gambling, drink, and try to make extra money. But you know, once somebody get drunk and they start losing their money, it's gonna be a fight. So she always had a gun in a little underwear package. And that was my childhood growing up. And I tell you this funny story, one night my friends, them damn idiots, talked me into stealing a six pack. And this how great my grandmother was.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  So I stuff a six pack in my pants. Six pack of beer. Yeah, yeah. What kind of pants you had on? I just stuffed them in. Them pants he got on right now.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  The extra sharp crease. People been telling me they just need grandpa pants, these creases. I tell you, listen, I said, listen, man, I'm not worried about looking good, I just wanna be comfortable. So I stick six pack in my pants. And in the projects, we live kind of like on a little side. And all of a sudden, I get about twenty yards away from the house. My grandmother said, Charles, bring your ass back here. And I said, oh shit. So, I pushed the beers down, they slide down my legs. And let me tell you something.

• 15:37Fred Taylor?

  You had one of them loose drawers.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Hey, Fred. Jail boxes. I'm gonna tell you something, it's like the Lord said, and it's pavement. And it's like, this angle. And it's like the Lord said, I'm gonna make every other sound in the world stop. It's gonna be quiet, ain't no other, man, you could hear those beers rolling down there. And I was like, damn, I'm cooked. I mean, you could, like, it's like there was no other, the Lord said, there's gonna be no other sound in the world right now. And all you could hear was beers rolling down the pavement. But just, I'm gonna tell you how cool my grandmother was. My grandmother says, hey, I'm not gonna embarrass you in front of your friends. But I'm gonna beat the hell out of you when you get back home. That's still to this day, the best cup of beers I've ever had.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Hey, them beers came with a price. Those are some Shawshank Redemption beers, boy. I'm telling you, those are the best two beers. But, but that's, that's how great my grandmother was, man. She, but she says, hey, I need 10 rebounds a night, minimum. In high school, in college, and in NBA. I told, I told the worst decision I ever made, when I put that damn big old dish in the backyard. I thought I was done with her after college, because she came to every home game, her and my mom. And she like, she get the stat sheet before the coach did. She was that crazy. But the thing that was funny about it, that's one of the big old dishes that first came out. And man, I made the mistake of buying her one, and she started harassing me.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  And she be calling me with trade opportunities, hey, you need, hey, tell the coach he need to get rid of number 12. And I'm like, I'm like, Granny, you're not a general manager. You're not a general manager, I mean, but she be critiquing the hell out of me. It was hilarious.

• 17:23Fred Taylor?

  So the big fella mentioned his father being his biggest influence.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:27Fred Taylor?

  Uh, would you say your grandmother is the voice you heard in back of your head?

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know.

• 17:32Fred Taylor?

  Most nights?

• 17:32Speaker 01

  My grandmother was amazing because she worked in a meat factory during the day. And on the weekends, she was a cosmetologist. So she was a hardworking woman. She demanded hard work out of everybody. She was a no BS person. One of, that's one of the things. One of the reasons I feel like I've always had a great work ethic is because of her. But like, I tell you, it's funny, she used to bring chicken feet home. And you know, if you've ever seen the chicken feet, it's only like, it's this, but it's like, this is the only meat, this little piece right here. She had to eat like a hundred to get like a full meal. And it was hilarious, but thinking about those growing up. But she was just an amazing person.

• 18:13Fred Taylor?

  But you talk about your grandmother, man. You're very outspoken.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  You know, it's interesting you say that, because every time I hear that, I'm like.

• 18:20Fred Taylor?

  No, but the question really is, I wanted to ask you, is it more that you're opinionated? Or does it tread along the lines of being controversial?

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it has something to do with race, to be honest with you. Because I hear that all the time, I'm like, wait, I don't think I'm saying things I don't hear other people say. But I think they throw those code words, outspoken, opinionated, when they're talking about brothers on television. Because I think some of the white guys say some of the exact same thing that I say, and they're considered experts. And I'm like, whoa, hold on a second now, why do you call me controversial, outspoken? I'm saying the same thing that these other guys are saying. But to me, they use those code words when they're saying stuff like that. And that always makes me laugh, I says, I don't think I'm controversial.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Like I say, I saw somebody say exactly what I said yesterday, today. But you throw those code words at me. But I just laugh about it, because like I say, I'm gonna be a straight shooter. That's what's really important, because I think television is so powerful. One of my mentors is Mike Wilbon. And we talk about it all the time, he's like a big brother to me, he says, man, television is powerful. When he first got the job at PTI, he was talking about, man, I've been writing for the Washington Post for 25 years, and nobody know who the hell I am. I'm on TV for six months, I can't go to dinner without people wanting to take pictures and autograph. And I said, man, TV is so powerful.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  But the problem with television is, we got so many guys on television who are full of shit. Like, I found out this when I was in Philadelphia, that's how long ago it was. You know, a lot of guys, and they're friends of mine. We'd be playing golf, and I'd say, "What you gonna talk about today on the radio?" They're like, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." I says, "Wait, you gonna talk about that? You don't believe it?" He says, "No, I don't believe that, but, Charles, these fools gonna call in and argue with me for four hours."

• 20:22Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  And I was like, "What?" He said, "Charles, we're trying to get viewers. We ain't, we ain't..." And I says, "So when I got my job, I said, I wanna always be authentic and truthful, because if I say something, I want people to, even if they disagree, because I don't think I'm right all the time. But ain't nobody gonna be able to say, "Charles said this to get clicks," or whatever. I'm never going to do that, especially being a brother, because it's gonna be few and far between for us. So, we have to really handle our business.

• 20:57Channing Crowder?

  And with that standpoint, like, because we were talking to the big man, we were talking to Shaq.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:02Channing Crowder?

  And I say stuff all the time, get me in, and I said, "Trouble."

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:05Channing Crowder?

  He was like, "What is trouble?" He was like, "Did you lose your job? Did you get fired? Did you lose money? Did your wife leave you?" And I was like, "No." He's like, "So what's trouble? In your mind, with you being controversial, or whatever them words they use when a black man speaks his mind,

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:21Channing Crowder?

  what's that threshold? Like, where is that threshold hit where you know you can't go past that?

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Well, that's a great question. I don't know that yet, because I don't worry about that. Like, if I say something that I wanna say, I'm willing to take all the heat and smoke for it. I always have a plan. Like, people say, "Well, Charles, say anything." I said, "Well, first of all, I always got a plan." Because if there's something that I wanna have a conversation about, I'll throw gasoline on the fire and get people talking about it. So, because I think our job is to make people think. I do. When I, like, I want people to think for themselves. I mean, especially when it's a serious issue. Don't just stick with your own tribe and don't try to be a right fighter.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  I want you to think about what you think about it. And then we can have an honest, fair conversation. That's all I try to do. I mean, because like I said, I don't think I'm right all the time. But with the platform that I have, I'm like, I want people to think and talk. And then at the end of the day, if we say we disagree, I'm cool with that.

• 22:30Channing Crowder?

  One thing I always tell people to, country dumb. I'm from the Bible bill. I'm from Atlanta, he's from Alabama. You know what I'm saying? And you have a certain accent and people mess with you about how you say words. People mess with me all the time, how country I am. That country dumb side of it, do you, I believe that when people underestimate you because of your dialect, because of your twang in your voice, that you have the advantage on them. Because they already, they already think you're unintelligent. Well. Because you talk like you're from the south.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Well, I always tell them this, you know all those smart people? They're working for me. So, I don't want to hear that how smart they are. They work for me.

• 23:09Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  They can be all smart they want to. I don't have a college degree, but I got a lot of people working for me, got them. I think it's an insult to people when you try to think you're smarter than they are. Because they might be better at something than you. Like, am I a lawyer? No. Am I a doctor? No. But they can't diagram a play. They don't know what a cover two is, or zero blitz and things like, that you guys know. I mean, you just have to be good at what you're good at. Like, if they sit, I guarantee you, you sit me down with a doctor or lawyer, I says, what's this, what they do, what's that defense they're running? What did he just do on that pick and roll? They're gonna be like, I don't know.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  But he'd stick me in the operating room, I don't know what the hell they're doing. I never underestimate somebody's smart. And it's like, I don't know how to fix around the house. But I can make a phone call, get somebody over there, but I don't know. Yo, man, I can get you some rebounds, but I don't know how to fix stuff. So I think just because you a carpenter, electrician, plumber, that don't mean you're dumb. That mean you're better at that skill, that mindset. Your skill set. But yeah, but like I say, I always laugh when people get new stuff for Christmas and they're like, "We need to put this together." I said, "No, we gonna get somebody to put that together." I'm not, I'm not, I'm not gonna mess around and get somebody to kill, put something together. I said, "No, we gonna get somebody to put that together."

• 24:31Channing Crowder?

  You don't do nothing?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:32Channing Crowder?

  Light bulbs?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  I know, I change the light bulb.

• 24:35Channing Crowder?

  Would you get on the ladder and get the tall, I know your house got damn 15 foot ceilings, you get up there?

• 24:40Speaker 01

  No, I don't do that.

• 24:41Channing Crowder?

  You hire somebody?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah.

• 24:43Channing Crowder?

  You get on the ladder?

• 24:44Speaker 01

  I don't wanna get hurt, man.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  I don't wanna get hurt.

• 24:48Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned earlier that you think race sometimes comes into play with the way that analyst or anybody who has a voice gets an opportunity to speak on TV, the way that they're spoken about. Or even when we're talking about athletes.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:01Ryan Clark?

  When in hockey, you can fight all the damn time and it's cool. But if a basketball player starts to push and he has tattoos and he's black with cornrows, he's a thug.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:09Ryan Clark?

  But also too, at least I feel in our positions that we have, race plays a part in our responsibility. Right? And I think, and I think, I think our community gravitates towards us because of that. And so there was something that you did around the killing of Breonna Taylor. That you took a lot of heat from our community because you said it was different than a George Floyd.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:33Ryan Clark?

  Situation. How do, when you look back on that, how would, would you have handled that situation differently?

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Not at all. Uh, number one, it's a shame that she got killed. Uh, that was really sad and unfortunate. The point I was trying to make, her boyfriend did shoot the cops. I says, "Wait a minute." Number one, I'm sorry the young lady got killed, but you can't compare that to the murder of George Floyd. Those are two different animals. Was, I mean. I think that's the problem what we have being black on television. See, black people think we have to agree with them all the time. I said, wait a minute, I'm not gonna agree with you all the time. And if you get mad, you just get mad. Uh, I think that I'm able to sit back, make a conscientious, smart objective.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Like I say, that like kneeling on a man for nine minutes. They ain't the same as the police coming knocking on your door and your boyfriend shoot at the cops. And it was really unfortunate, but I don't think you could compare the two. Uh, and that's, that's, that was only the point I was trying to make. We can, uh, argue and debate right, wrong. Uh, but it was wrong that she got killed, but I said, you can't equate those two things. But I don't do social media. I hear about it.

• 26:53Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  From my family and friends. And I realized there was a certain faction of the black community that went crazy on me. But there was also a certain faction that came to my defense. And who came up to me on the street and say, hey, you had a point. And like I say, man, I, I have tried, we need policemen. See, this is what first, when you have these idiots and fools talking about defund the police and everything. We as black people, we need the police. Now, when they screw up, they need to be held accountable.

• 27:24Ryan Clark?

  We also need them to be better.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  But they don't know, they need to be held accountable when they screw up. Because I tell you this, Ryan, uh, who are black people supposed to call when we got crimes in our neighborhood? Ghostbusters?

• 27:35Ryan Clark?

  I wa- I wasn't trying to laugh right now.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  No, no, seriously, I'm, I mean, I said that.

• 27:38Channing Crowder?

  I don't know if that little thing they kick out with the little light gonna do it.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  No, no, that ain't gonna do it because let me tell you, you know who always gonna have cops? White folks in good neighborhoods, they always gonna have cops. And for us to get out here, like I say, we need to, they need to do better and we need to hold them accountable.

• 27:54Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  One thing that really frustrates me.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  I never understand why black folks don't get mad when we kill each other. But like, when a white cop kills a black kid, first of all, white folks come out. And I always say, well, why don't white folks come out when black folks kill each other? I guess it's like the popular thing to do, to be seen on television, marching with the black folk. But when black folks kill each other, they don't come out and march with us.

• 28:51Ryan Clark?

  Well, I think the first thing is this, though, is that, one, if you don't believe that people in our communities are upset when we're killing each other, I think that's a ridiculous notion to not believe that they aren't upset, because they are. But the other piece of it is, too, is, one, there have been some white people that have marched. It has now gotten popular. I think the other piece of marching, when it's authority figures killing young black men or killing black women, is the fact that that's a difference in equality. Like, that's a difference in treatment. What we do to one another absolutely needs to be policed, it absolutely needs to be eradicated, it needs to be something that we march against.

• 29:31Ryan Clark?

  But the reason that people march when a cop, whether it's a white cop or any cop, kills an unarmed black man, is because the thought is, you wouldn't kill an unarmed white man. Or you would treat them differently. That's about equity, that's about equality, that's about making sure that everyone has the same opportunities here to succeed. It's in no way something to say that black, that black people killing black people doesn't matter. We're also the only race in the world that has a crime that's called black-on-black crime. We don't say nothing about Asian-on-Asian crime. White people kill each other all the damn time. We don't say nothing about white-on-white crime. And so I do think there's power in the way we speak of things.

• 30:14Ryan Clark?

  I do get it, but I do think that because we have a voice, I think it's good that you say you like to light a fire and have people have conversations.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:22Ryan Clark?

  That's good, but that conversation has to come with solution. And I think that's where we are lacking.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  I think that the reason we talk about black-on-black crime, because, and not white-on-white crime, because...

• 30:38Speaker 01

  We we're killing each other at a much faster rate. At a much faster rate. And then to piggyback on one of your other points. The cops actually have shot more white people than black people.

• 30:49Channing Crowder?

  Because there's more of them, Charles.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  I know that, but I'm saying. Why don't the media cover that? The media, that's, that's, I, cause I, that's what one of my concerns are with the media. Are they with us, against us? Because when the cops shoot white people, they never cover that. When a, but when a white cop kills a black kid. It's going right to CNN, they're gonna send a crew there. But, and these are all the things I like to talk about because I think they are really important. They're really important.

• 31:17Channing Crowder?

  Ahmaud Arbery.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:18Channing Crowder?

  Who's the white him? George Floyd, is there a white him? Philando Castile. Philando Castile, there's not, it, it, are you saying there, there are white people in that same situation? George Floyd, like, is there a white George Floyd that didn't get on video? Cause I don't think so.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  No, I, I, no, I was just talking about cops shooting people.

• 31:36Channing Crowder?

  No, no, I'm saying, just the, the cop, that, like. Police brutality is, is a name too. And it's real.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  It, it's, it's very real.

• 31:43Channing Crowder?

  There, and every, you played against people that are trash, there's terrible teachers, there's terrible attorneys, there's terrible everything. But. Why do I not hear the stories about the Philando Castile? And I saw a video of that, why, of George Floyd. I haven't seen a white man get a cop to sit on his neck.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  Oh, and I.

• 32:01Channing Crowder?

  Long enough to kill him.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  You're a hundred percent correct, and all I'm saying is when these cops. Screw up, we need to make them pay. They, and, and, and the cops have to do a better job of policing each other. They have to do a much better job of policing each other.

• 32:15Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Because we can't have that code silence, blue code, whatever, the blue shield. Because they're putting each other in danger also. I mean, they're putting each other in danger. But. We need to address the whole crime wave that's taking over our country. Uh, because this stuff is getting out of hand. I don't know the solution, but we all gotta do better. Plain and simple.

• 32:38Fred Taylor?

  Well, when they took away the right back in the day censorship in music, things got a lot worse. Cause people were able to say whatever they want. It's uh, freedom of speech. I get that and understand it. But the more people talk about certain things, the more followers and you know, people are gonna emulate that. Same thing today with social media. You can go into Instagram and all these other different uh, social media platforms. And you can see somebody get shot. So when you talk about more crime, people are seeing it every day. So it's like they're numb to it. You know, we see that, we don't say, oh, we gotta figure out a way to stop like, oh, in, in a month or two, you don't forget about it. It's gonna happen again. Just keep on moving forward. So I think that these companies,

• 33:20Fred Taylor?

  they need to find a way to um, regulate social media. Because kids get on there, they seeing in everything. If the parents aren't paying attention, and that takes me back to one of your iconic commercials. Uh, I am not a role model. And people took that, you know, in the wrong way. Uh, where parents should parent. And uh, I think more of that is, is needed today, especially when it comes to social media.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  A couple of things you touched on. Uh, first of all, you know I do no social media. So I think those people fucking idiots. That's just me. Um, I've been offered millions of dollars to do social media. I'm like, not a chance in the world. Cause number one, I don't want those people having access to me. Because I never understand what kind of loser has to make a comment on something. Like, when I'm living my life, trying to be successful and do my thing, I never like, well, let me comment on this and say something rude or asinine. Like, so, and I was like, why would I wanna talk to those people? And I'm pretty sure a lot of them are really good people, but I don't wanna expose myself to the idiots and the fools and the jackasses.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  So I, I will never do social media. The second part, so I was concerned about black kids. Uh, when I would go speak at schools. So I went to Nike, I think it was nineteen eighty-nine, I said, I'm concerned about these black kids. And they're like, what do you mean? I says, I think they think they can only be jocks and entertainers. That was your Sports Illustrated cover, I remember that.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I says, I says, I don't think they think they can be doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, firemen, police and things like that. And Nike says, I don't think that's a good idea. I says, let me tell you something, it's not a good idea, it's a fucking great idea. And I said, I wanna make this commercial. They're like, hey, you do it, we'll do it. So I did it, and what's really cool, Nike came to me like a year later and says, hey, we gotta tell you, we were a hundred percent wrong. Like ninety percent of our letters supported you, but what's interesting about it, so. When you're in NBA, you go speak at a lot of schools. And, and, and we have a lot of segregated schools in this country. So what was frustrating to me when I would go to the white schools.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  I always said, well, what do you wanna do? And then he said, well, I wanna be a doctor, I wanna be a lawyer, I wanna be a teacher, engineer, blah, blah, blah. But when I was going to the black schools. I was like, well, I wanna play in the NBA, I wanna play in NFL. I'm like, oh, I says, I think these kids are brainwashed, they can, they can only play sports. So that goes back to the fire I was starting about. I knew when the first commercial first came out, the media, which they're jackasses, they were gonna jump on me. Josh, you part of the media. Yeah, but, but, but I never. That was the first thing I thought. But, but, but I really feel like I'm a good part of the media, cuz I don't have a hidden agenda.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  I gave an example one time. So I'm playing for the seventy-sixers. And my coach is Paul Westphal, and he says to me, hey, uh, cuz I'm, it's, uh, it's my team, I'm the leader, he says. I'm gonna bring in a friend on the plane, if there's anything happen, I need you to handle it. I says, coach, I got your back. So we're in the back of the plane playing cards, and then I forget who it was, says, oh, hell no. I said, what's going on? He says, Rush Limbaugh is in this mother.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  And I said, "What?" And they look at me like,

• 36:55Speaker 01

  "You need to go talk to that mother..." And I was like,

• 37:00Speaker 01

  "All right, it's my team, I'm the leader." So I go up there. I said, "Rush, the brothers,

• 37:10Speaker 01

  we're a little unhappy, so can I, I need to talk to you." I said, "I'm not gonna be confrontational, I want you to explain yourself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And we end up talking, and Ashley became cordial. And he said to me, he says, "Charles, I don't believe half the shit I say on radio or TV." He says, "It's all a scheme, it's all a game." And I start thinking back, going back to Philadelphia, when they told me like, "Yo, man, our job is to get y'all to call in and argue on the radio for four hours." And when Rush said that to me, he said, "Yeah, man, I'm just playing a character on television." And I was like, "So, we're all a part of a game that we don't even know we're in?"

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Because, let's get one thing, the Democrats and the Republicans are both full of shit. And they said, "You gotta pick a team, you gotta pick a team." But what does the team actually do for you? Absolutely nothing. I voted Democratic my entire life. My entire life. And I'm starting to think like, "Man, everybody in my hometown is still poor." Uh, man, all the black neighborhoods are still poor. They all go to shitty schools, and we've been voted Democratic for fifty-nine years, I've been on the earth. And then I was like, "At least the Republicans, they're just gonna take care of the rich folks." I think the point I try to tell people now, "Man, if you waiting on these political parties to make your life better, you are, you're just wrong." So what do you do, though?

• 38:37Speaker 01

  You got to handle your own business, Chan. You got to handle your own business. Like, you can't sit around and say, "Hey, I want this party." You have to take control of your life. You have to work your ass off to put yourself in a position to be successful. Uh, that's the bottom line. Uh, but if you're sitting around waiting on one of these parties, uh, to take care of you, you're in trouble. So I want young black kids don't think about being in the NFL or being in the NBA. First of all, I wish everybody could, because you guys know it's a great life. But most people, as I say, have to get a real job. You know, I want us to have black doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  And we really need them to start a- a- adopting those fields. Because if you're putting all your eggs in an NFL or NBA basket, you're sadly gonna be mistaken.

• 39:31Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Uh, like I say, I wish everybody could play in the NFL or the NBA, but it's really an unrealistic goal.

• 39:38Fred Taylor?

  Even with your, uh, that commercial, I am not a role model. I think it makes perfect sense that the parents need to step up. Chan even says, looking at the black community itself, you know, you have parents that are, quote Channing, deadbeat parents, because they, they're trying to live through their children. You know, the dream that they missed off out on in sports. And even to this day, man, when I go and speak to schools, you know, obviously that you're going in for career day or whatever it might be, you know, the kids are saying the same thing that, you know, you said back in the day. I wanna be this athlete. And that's okay. But make sure that everything else is intact. Make sure, you know, that the parents are saying, we're gonna make sure school is good first.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:21Fred Taylor?

  People ask me, Fred, why don't your boys play ball? I don't give a damn if they play ball. If they wanted to, that's fine. But what I'm gonna do as a parent, I'm gonna make sure that they're able to compete with that little white kid that's sitting over there. They gonna be just as smart as him, because I'm gonna provide all those different resources. But it's, it's just, it's just unfortunate, right?

• 40:42Speaker 01

  We've been brainwashed.

• 40:42Fred Taylor?

  But we have to continue, especially using this platform where it's just open source. We have to continue to sort of push that, you know, that narrative, because it's more than sports.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:53Fred Taylor?

  You're quoting that commercial, man. I think they should actually replay that.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Well, thank you.

• 40:57Fred Taylor?

  Now.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  You know, so it's interesting, I, I bought a distillery in Alabama, uh, about three years ago. I got a vodka and a gin. And people say, why'd you buy that business? I said, well, see.

• 41:10Fred Taylor?

  You can't empty hands.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  You didn't tell me.

• 41:13Fred Taylor?

  You bought a drink.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  So the reason, the reason I bought the distillery, so I've been trying to give them, my goal, my goal is to give a million dollars a year away to charity. So the first year I did my high school, the second year I did my college, Auburn. Shout out to Auburn, War Eagle. The third year I did Wounded Warriors. And the last five years, I did five historically black colleges. Uh, two here in Atlanta, Morehouse and Clark. And three, uh, in Alabama, Tuskegee, Miles, and Alabama A and M. And when I go speak to those kids, we never talk about sports. I say, guys, we never gonna talk about sports. I want y'all to be doctors, lawyers, engineers, things like that.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  I says, we have been brainwashed by the system because the only black people they see are famous blacks who are great at sports or

• 42:11Ryan Clark?

  Entertainment.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Entertainment. I said, y'all do know we got black doctors and lawyers and engineers and teachers and things like that. So that's, and I love your point, we gotta be better parents. Like my daughter, I think she used to hate me because I was like, hey, I'm getting your ass ready for the world. I want you to be the strongest, most beautiful, smart black woman in the world. And I said, I don't want them to ever say you got a job because you Charles Barkley's daughter. You gonna have to be harder. There's a, hey, and I only hear about the double standard. Every black person know there's a double standard. I don't, you don't get to screw up and say there's a double standard. So I said, you gonna read every day for a half an hour. I don't care what you read.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  And I remember the first time we celebrated MLK Day, uh, in Arizona because they came late to the party. And I says, you know who Dr. Martin Luther King is? She said, yeah. I says, well, what you know about him? I said, well, he did a lot of great things for black people, blah, blah, blah. Oh, oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. I said, you ain't gonna get no day off. And I says, you write me a damn report. On his birthday, on his holiday, every year. Tell me something different. You ain't gonna get to use the same paper. And I said, I want her to know about him, Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Bill Russell, Nelson Mandela.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  I always wanted her to know about people who put all of us in a position to be successful. Because I think it's really, really important to know your past. Because I tell people, man, as a black person today, we ain't really been through no shit. Like, I can't imagine what it's like, like Bill Russell, Ali, and those guys. I can't even imagine the shit that they had to go through. Like, yeah, I'm from Alabama. I've been called an a** a few times. I'm like, hey, hello. I'm like, okay.

• 44:15Channing Crowder?

  You can't say hello.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  No, I'm just saying, like, that ain't no big deal to me.

• 44:21Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  You know, growing up in Alabama, I've seen some stuff. But like, I ain't really been through no, like, some stuff that the older brothers had to go through. Like, nobody ever said, Charles, you can't stay at my hotel. You can't eat where you want to. So, I think it's important for us to celebrate those guys.

• 44:42Channing Crowder?

  I push back and say, that's why you are a role model. You talking about Jackie Robinson, where he couldn't even stay, couldn't eat with his teammates and all. And that's why, and I understand the message you were portraying when I'm not a role model. But you look like me, you're successful, the world loves you. So, you can't decide if you're a role model or you're not a role model. You are a role model because you put yourself with talent, you said, work, in the situation you're in. You are a role model.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Well, my thing is, though, I would just, well, thank you, number one. But my job is to poke the bear.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  But I, I wanna use my power in a really good way. Like, I love writing a check for a million dollars to a historically black college. I know so many kids gonna go to college. It's a really good feeling. You know, I love, uh, you know, i- in my high school, a lot of those black kids can't go to college without my help. And, and my scholarship at Auburn, their number one job is to recruit black students. So we need to get the black student population up at Auburn. You know, we have close to thirty thousand students. And I think we got like one to two percent of black students. So I want that to be closer to ten percent. And that's why I give them money to recruit black kids.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Uh, but I, I need this platform to do what I want to do. Because you can have all the good intentions you want, but black people need economic opportunity. You know, that, that's what they need. And that's my number one objective, uh, is give them economic opportunity. And that comes with education. And that's a really important thing for me.

• 46:23Fred Taylor?

  We're in an environment, you know, you're not on social media, but we're in an environment where you have the, the influencers. I know we, uh, we had a few conversations, uh, some months back, talking about influencers. Like, what is an influencer? But truth be told, you know, you, we talk about doctors, lawyers, all this other different stuff. Influencers, they are making in a year or two, a lot more money than doctors and lawyers are making in a lifetime. But a lot of people don't know that. Much like, a lot of people don't know, uh, that, I wanna go back to nineteen ninety-two, the Dream Team. That you were considered the, the leader, the MVP and the anchor of that team. But you didn't get all the notoriety. Did you feel some type? Magic, Magic said.

• 47:08Ryan Clark?

  They know, they know Michael Jordan was the leader of the team.

• 47:10Fred Taylor?

  Magic Johnson.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  Come on now.

• 47:12Fred Taylor?

  Chuck Daly said, Barkley brought the most intensity and fire each and every day, each and every game. And even Magic said, Charles Barkley was the MVP. So, my question is.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  And the better players were not Charles Barkley.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  No Fred, like nah, you wanna bring it up, bring it up. There were better players than Charles Barkley running around that damn team. Hey, there was only one mother- Who, Michael? You were the second best player on that- Hell yeah. You were the second best player on that team Chuck. Go back and look, go back and-

• 47:46Fred Taylor?

  Can I get to my point then?

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Go ahead, please.

• 47:50Fred Taylor?

  My point is this, with that being said, Mike got the notoriety, Bird got the notoriety, and Magic got the notoriety. Did you feel some type of way?

• 47:59Speaker 01

  No, I'm gonna tell you why Fred, I'm gonna want, okay, let me tell you something.

• 48:04Fred Taylor?

  Chuck, don't act crazy.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Chuck Daly said to me, he said, Charles, can I talk to you a second? I said, yeah Chuck, anything. He says, you're the second best basketball player in the world. I said, who bet me? He says, that motherfucker right there. I says, you're right about that. I, I, I, I says, but thank you. And I said, and I've said it many times, that's the best compliment I've ever gotten from somebody. I said, I actually agree with you. I said, but you know what? I'm gonna put an end to that shit next year. I said, we're playing them in the finals. And I'm, I'm gonna bring, I said, I- Phoenix? Yeah, my, because I, the next year I'm going to Phoenix. And I said, I got Dan Marley, Kevin Johnson, I said, we going to the fucking finals. And when I got to Phoenix, I told those guys the first day, I said, guys, we're going to the finals,

• 48:48Speaker 01

  and we gonna play that motherfucker from Chicago. I says, I'm sick of people telling me he's betting me. I just didn't have no help in Philly. And I says, we gonna play them for, in the championship. And we got there and they beat it. And, and that was the first time I ever said in my life, damn, I think there's somebody better than me at basketball.

• 49:06Fred Taylor?

  That's the first time in your life?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  In my whole life. Because I said, Magic was great, but he had Worthy and Kareem.

• 49:12Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  I have a new bold and Shelton Jones. Of course he gonna be better. Uh, Bird had Mikal and Parrish. But I said like, no, these dudes ain't betting me, they just got more help. But when Chuck gave me that compliment, it meant a great deal to me. But to get back to your point, you know Fred, the reason I wasn't upset-

• 49:30Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Magic Johnson and Larry Bird are the two most important figures in NBA history. They saved the NBA.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Because people act like not guys are making thirty, forty, fifty million dollars. When I got to the NBA, the average salary was two hundred thousand dollars, two fifty. And then Magic and Bird came. And they had the greatest rivalry in NBA history. They had racial undertones. But the thing I admire about them two, them brothers just basketball junkies, Magic and Bird. So when they came to the NBA, stuff started to take off. And then Michael came in and took it to a whole nother level. So I thank those guys for making sure I never had to have a job. I didn't mind them getting shined at all. Because, like I say, you know, if you're gonna look at golf,

• 50:52Speaker 01

  you would say Jack and Arnold were amazing. Jack Nick is one of the greatest people I've ever met in my life. I only met Arnold one time, but I love Jack Nick because every time I see him, he's just a perfect gentleman. And then you got Tiger, who like, him and Michael are like once in a lifetime guys. But I did not get upset at those three guys. Because they made the NBA. No disrespect to anybody who came along past it. The only thing I feel bad about is, you know, guys like Russell, you know, Dr. J. Most of those guys were the foundation, but we were all born at the right time. I mean, I, I know I'm not as good as Bill Russell.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Bill Russell made $2,000 and I was making three or four million. Uh, just because I was born at the right time. And not only just because of the basketball and the money and the, you know, Michael bought the shoes. And people forget, man, wasn't nobody doing commercials before Michael?

• 51:49Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Now, everybody does commercials. I mean, Michael did two things where I always tell people I think he's the GOAT. And, uh, number one, he, the shoe thing. Nobody was making money before shoes, uh, uh, and shoes before Michael. Now, guys all making three, four hundred million dollars a year because of Michael. Well, a couple guys are making that much, but that's because of Michael. Then secondly, we all got commercials. Nobody made commercials before Michael Jordan came along. So, Magic, Bird, and Michael, to me, man, I think those guys, for me, never had to get a real job. It means a lot to me, those three guys.

• 52:29Ryan Clark?

  So, I think the crazy part is you're talking about your career. You almost seem more famous now in your second stint. I mean, we had Ric Flair on here and he couldn't help but talk about how much he loves Charles Barkley and, and that's my friend and all of these things and... Where are you now in retirement? Cause you say you're not gonna die on TV next to Shaq, right? And what are your plans now?

• 52:54Speaker 01

  You're gonna die on TV next to Shaq. Yeah. No, you know... That's what's gonna happen, y'all. You're gonna die right there on TV. I, I got... On the set. I got two years left on my contract and I think that's gonna be it for me. You know, man, I've been doing this for 21 years. Uh, I'll be 61 when my contract ends. Shout out to little Henry. I just had my first grandson, grandbaby. Uh, my daughter and her husband are wonderful. My daughter's a great person. She's a really nice person. Uh, my son-in-law is a great person. Uh, man, holding that, holding that little dude was one of the coolest experiences of my life. I mean, it meant a great deal to me to see her become a mom, but...

• 53:36Speaker 01

  I just feel the need, I'm smarter than, man, I'm gonna die sooner than later. And I wanted to, not that I haven't enjoyed my life, I had the most amazing life a person could have. But I wanna just go play golf and fish and travel the world. And listen, if I ain't got enough money by now, I'm an idiot anyway.

• 53:59Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  You know, because I played sixteen years in NBA. I've been on television for twenty-one years as we tape this. But like, man, I'm sixty years old. Like, I'm closer to the end than the beginning.

• 54:14Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  So do you wanna work, or you wanna travel and have fun and don't have nothing to do? I mean, and, and that's the way I'm leaning, but, but I got two years before I have to make a decision.

• 54:25Channing Crowder?

  But to that point, you, you fifty-nine now, you're about to be sixty.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:30Channing Crowder?

  You ain't got no woman, you ain't, does the, like, does the man still work?

• 54:35Speaker 01

  I knew this was coming, Doug.

• 54:36Channing Crowder?

  You still stroking chop?

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Man, I've been married for thirty-four years. And I have learned a lot.

• 54:45Channing Crowder?

  Positions.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  No, I wish, you know, I wish I could have been a better husband. I wish I could have been a better father. There's a lot of give and takes in this, in fame. Fame is hard, man, it's for, it's like, you always got something to do.

• 55:05Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  When you're playing, you really got stuff to do. And now, I really got stuff to do because I'm traveling all the time. And that's one of the reasons, like, I don't, I get on the plane twice a week to fly. And I'm like, man, you wanna, how much longer do you wanna get on this plane? Uh, every week at six o'clock in the morning? So. I I'm just at a point in my life, I'm like, yo, man, enjoy it. Because, you know, because people talk to me about the championship and things like that. I always laugh, I'm like, wait a minute, hold on a second. You want me, first of all, I want to win the championship.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  But I'm trying to figure, just because a couple assholes on television say, well, he never won a championship. I'm like, wait, wouldn't it become an individual thing? It makes a good soundbite on television, but I didn't realize, I didn't realize I was playing golf and tennis. You know, like, and I don't want to poo poo on anybody's parade. But like, let's take Matthew Stafford. He's been a good quarterback in Detroit for 12 years, I think. And then he goes to a really good team and wins the Super Bowl. And I'm like, yay, if I could have went to a real good team, I would have won the championship too. And if Michael Jordan was gone. No, I got my shot at him.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  I I I, listen, I met him at the OK Corral, I was good with that. And then I had another couple championships.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  It wasn't OK Corral for you. I was the guy that got killed at the OK Corral. I was the guy that got killed at the OK Corral. But, you know, listen, man, all you want to do is say, I got my shot. You know, I got my shot, and that's all you can ask for. But like, this notion that when some guys say, well, you didn't win a championship, I'm like, yeah, it's not, you know, it's not an individual thing. But, man, I gave it all I had. I mean, I did the best that I could. And I sleep good at night about what I accomplished in sports. Because nobody thought I was going to be any good. I mean, that's, that's the shit that makes me laugh. Like, when I was coming out of high school, I had like five letters.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  I don't even think nobody out of the state of Alabama wanted me. I mean, I tell you, we always joke around, like Shaq and Kenny were both McDonald's All-Americans. And I said, well, why ate at McDonald's? That's the closest I came, like, I think coming out of high school, I was the number five ranked player in the state. And my State. In the whole state. And, and first of all, I was clearly I had better careers than any of those other guys. But I got penalized because I was in a small town, but nobody was recruiting me but the, the schools in Alabama. Uh, and then when I got to the NBA, they're like, well, he's only a six, five power forward. He'll never be successful.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  And then eleven All-Star games later, uh, I think I see that stat. There's only three guys in the history of basketball that's got twenty thousand points, ten thousand rebounds and four thousand assists. Man, I, I'm happy with my career. I was, I was blessed to play for sixteen years. Uh, so I got, really got no complaints about my life.

• 58:21Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, you would have, you would have what? The, the mound, round mound rebound.

• 58:26Ryan Clark?

  And doughboy, but I don't want to say.

• 58:27Channing Crowder?

  Asking about if you was, if you was the mound rounder.

• 58:30Ryan Clark?

  You know what he cares about.

• 58:31Channing Crowder?

  The mound rounder tearing the coochie up.

• 58:34Fred Taylor?

  See, he's trying to go, he's trying to pivot back to that question because you dug the question.

• 58:39Ryan Clark?

  You dug the question.

• 58:40Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, you dug the question.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  Better enjoy them seven minutes, brother.

• 58:43Ryan Clark?

  Man, we appreciate you, man. Thank you so much.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Enjoy them seven minutes, brother.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  I got seven minutes. That's all I got.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  It's gonna be a, it's gonna be a hard aggressive seven minutes.

• 58:56Fred Taylor?

  You're the only six, four rebound champ on the planet.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's one of my, the, the shortest guy to lead to league in rebounds, one of my, uh, you know, it's one of my coolest, you know, I tell people, um, when I look at some of my things, I says, this is getting my, my high school had never made it to the state tournament. That was a big deal for me. My college had never made it to March Madness. Getting them there for the first time was a big deal to me. And then in the NBA, I think, listen, uh, representing your country twice in the Olympics, it, it's a great accomplishment, but I always tell somebody, I was actually, uh, talking to Keo Spikes the other day. Uh, him and Tooten Reyes.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  And we were talking about, if you can play a professional sport for ten years, you had a great life and career. If you can get to double digits, because the average career in, in all pro sports is like four years. It's like four years. I said, man, I played for sixteen years. I mean, I had fourteen good years and two hang on, uh, but I got no complaints. We got no complaints either, brother. We appreciate you, my dog. No problem, my brother. Appreciate you, baby. Oh, of course, Fred. My pleasure.

• 1:00:34Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:00:44Speaker 05

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