#830 How Will Russia & Ukraine Impact The Macro Economy w/ Darius Dale

Darius Dale is the Founder & CEO of 42 Macro, the leading macro risk manager adviser. In this conversation, we discuss the macro economy, what's happening in the financial markets, how Darius is looking at various metrics, and what you should be considering as you're investing your capital. Darius joins us every Thursday on "The Best Business Show." This week, he joined us in our Miami studio. To see the video, go to "The Best Business Show: LIVE" YouTube Channel. ======================= Exodus is leading the world out of the traditional financial system by building beautiful and user-friendly blockchain products. With its focus on design and user experience, Exodus has become one of the most popular and loved cryptocurrency apps. It’s supported on both desktop and mobile, allowing you to sync your wallet across multiple devices so you can have access to your funds anywhere. You can instantly exchange around 100 different cryptocurrencies straight from your wallet. Interactive charts let you view an asset’s price history and your portfolio’s performance over time. And maybe the best part, Exodus is integrated with the Trezor hardware wallet - making advanced security easy for everyone. Visit exodus.com/pomp for your free download or search Exodus on the App Store or Playstore. ======================= Today’s episode is sponsored by Abra. Based in California and backed by top VC firms, Abra is an all-in-one simple, secure app that allows you to trade over 110 cryptocurrencies, get 0% interest loans using your crypto as collateral and earn interest with up to 14% APY on stablecoins and 8.15% APY on Bitcoin. Join nearly 2 million users by downloading Abra from the Google Play or Apple App store. If you download the app today, you will get $15 in free crypto once you fund your account. You came, you invested — now conquer. ======================= DeFi Technologies represents what’s next in the digital economy -- providing simplified, trusted access to crypto, decentralized finance and Web 3.0 investment opportunities. Institutions and investors can gain diversified, secure, compliant, and easily tradable access to a diversified set of industry-leading equity products and protocols, through a single stock purchase on a regulated exchange. Currently listed on U. S. (OTC: DEFTF) and Canadian (NEO:DEFI) exchanges. For more information or to subscribe to receive company updates and financial information, visit our website at defi.tech =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Darius Dale is the founder and CEO of 42 Macro, the leading macro risk management advisor. In this conversation, we talk about what's going on in the macro economy, what's happening in the financial markets, how Darius is looking at various metrics, and also what you at home should be thinking about as you invest your capital. I really enjoyed this conversation with Darius, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by Exodus, the world's leading desktop, mobile, and hardware crypto wallet. They offer beautiful, user-friendly blockchain products that sync across all of your devices, making it easier

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

  to send, receive, and exchange over 150 or more crypto assets in one place. And with world-class customer service available to you 24/7, Exodus always has your back. But the fun doesn't stop with staking and trading. They recently launched a new NFT marketplace where you can buy and sell your favorite NFTs on the Solana network. By partnering with the popular NFT platform, Magic Eden, they're offering the full Monte Unverified collections, with more added every single day. Ready to check it out for yourself? Run, don't walk. Over to exodus.com/pomp for your free download today. Again, if you want the world's leading desktop, mobile, and hardware crypto wallet, go to exodus.com/pomp today. Today's episode is sponsored by Abra. They're based in California, and they're backed by

• 1:30Anthony Pompliano?

  top VC firms. Abra is an all-in-one, simple, secure app that allows you to trade over 110 cryptocurrencies, get 0% interest loans using your crypto as collateral, and earn interest with up to 13% APY on stablecoins, and 7.15% APY on Bitcoin. You can join nearly 2 million users by downloading Abra from the Google Play or Apple App Store. If you download the app today, you will get $15 in free crypto once you fund your account. You came, you invested, now conquer. Abra, conquer crypto. Go check it out today. This episode is brought to you by DeFi Technologies. DeFi Technologies represents what's next in the digital economy. They're providing simplified trusted access to crypto, decentralized finance and web three

• 2:14Anthony Pompliano?

  investment opportunities. Institutions and investors can gain diversified, secure, compliant, and easily tradable access to a diversified set of industry-leading equity products and protocols through a single stock purchase on a regulated exchange. DeFi Technologies is currently listed on the US exchange at DEF TF stock ticker and the Canadian NEO exchange at DEFI. For more information or to subscribe to receive company updates and financial information, visit their website at defi.tech. I'm really excited about what these guys are doing. I've become an advisor to the business and I highly suggest you go check them out. Go to their website at defi.tech today. All right, let's get into this episode. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:20Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, as you guys can hear, we have another guest in studio now. He literally couldn't keep quiet. Sometimes I gotta just say the truth. He's 98 years old.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  You're neurologically proven.

• 3:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Darius is here.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I am here. What's up, boys? In the studio, live and in charge, man. It's good to be here.

• 3:37Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think about Charlie Munger's bullshit yesterday? You missed it earlier. I said he's just talking that shit. Like, he was just, he was on television talking shit and then like,

• 3:45Anthony Pompliano?

  yeah, I said that shit. I said that. Fiat currency's going to zero.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  It reminds me of like the Tupac Biggie Beast where like it just got more and more ridiculous. And so I'm guessing he's gonna fire back. He's gonna clap back at you.

• 3:58Anthony Pompliano?

  I literally think somebody should create a diss track of Charlie Munger and then like pay, no, and then listen, and then pay to go to lunch. Cause I think, I know you can pay to go to lunch with Buffett. I'm assuming you can pay to go to lunch with Munger as well for like charity or whatever, and then just literally go to a restaurant and have them play it over the speakers the whole time.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Dude, for 25 bucks, 25,000 a song, I'll do a diss track for anybody.

• 4:21Anthony Pompliano?

  I was gonna say, so almost go to lunch with me. Like, like, but literally him saying that fiat currencies are going to go to zero. My favorite part of the whole thing isn't even him saying it, him talking shit, him giving the stare down. It's the guy who responds and goes, well, that'd be a different environment.

• 4:39Anthony Pompliano?

  He was like, damn, bro, you really mean that shit?

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Guy takes out his phone and starts trading.

• 4:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, he's like, shit.

• 4:48Anthony Pompliano?

  But no, I think Joe's point about you can't really take these guys, their advice on technology seriously is, is pretty fair, right?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Well, you also have, this happens in finance a lot, right? You, you, people talk their book a lot in finance. And so you always have to sort of evaluate what folks are saying and the advice they're giving you through the lens of how these people make money. And it's not to say that they're nefarious. You know, a lot of people are actually, you know, you're making money, but you know, you're also trying to help people and establish their long-term financial health. But there's sometimes there's people who are just trying to do it to make money. And so you have to be able to have that filter and apply that going forward.

• 5:22Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. What, what, what's our take on Russia and Ukraine? Does this have any impact on Fed policy decisions or the financial system or any of this stuff? Or is this like more of a geopolitical thing and not really finance related?

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Well, I'll start by saying if, if this gets, goes awry, it'll be impacting everything. It'll be impacting how you and I live our lives. But the reality is most geopolitical conflicts are exogenous events and markets tend to price those in very quickly and move on. What markets care about are trending rates of, of growth and trending rates of inflation and, and trending direction in monetary and fiscal policy. And so to the extent that this Russia skirmish has any impact on that, that's what will impact markets, but it's my view that it won't. It's also my view that this is just a big game for Putin to get the West to the table to get them to back off their sort of eastern expansion with respect to NATO. I think that's pretty clear.

• 6:15Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I feel like Putin is just sitting there, he like, he's fools. He's like, he thinks he's playing like, what was it, a Risk? Or whatever. Where he's like, all right, I'm gonna move these people up close to the border, I'm gonna move them back. Nope, they were never there. Like, and, and I'm sure there's a whole bunch of nonsense that we don't even know about, right? So it's like hard to underwrite, like how serious is it? How much is it propaganda, whatever? Like, it just feels like a game.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  You know what he's doing? He's, we've all been there, like you have an ex-girlfriend.

• 6:42Anthony Pompliano?

  I haven't put my military troops on the border yet, but.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  No, no, I'm, I'm bringing it back to, to layman's terms. So Putin, how Putin is behaving right now is that like ex-girlfriend who's constantly talking about her new boyfriend on Instagram and constantly taking photos and, and pictures of him just to like make you jealous.

• 7:00Anthony Pompliano?

  So like Kim Kardashian.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Basically.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Putin is behaving like Kim Kardashian right now and ultimately it's likely to be proven effective because right now neither the US nor Germany, really the broader West can afford to have a military skirmish develop and obviously out of this because we're already dealing with you know sort of a pretty rapid expansion in crude oil prices and if we take it WTI above $90 a barrel to 110, $120 a barrel, that's a recession automatically in the US economy.

• 7:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it feels like we're only scratching the surface of the game they could play.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Like this whole like, oh, we may invade Ukraine, we may not. What were they doing a couple of years ago? There was like, was it Ukraine or was there another small jurisdiction where like, I remember there's like a CNN reporter and he was like in the snow and they were like, ah, we're like fortifying the position or some, whatever was going on. And I remember being like, oh damn, that might be real. And then like, if you actually think about over the last five years, Trump was in office, we almost went to war with Iran, like World War III was popping on Twitter.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 8:05Anthony Pompliano?

  And then he was tweeting little rocket man at North Korea, right? Like it feels like this game gets played a lot.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  It does.

• 8:12Anthony Pompliano?

  But for some reason, I think that the Americans look at this and like, yo, Putin is a different

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:20Anthony Pompliano?

  thing here. Like, you know, what's going on? Did you ever read a red notice? The book, Bill Browder?

• 8:27Speaker 02

  No, I'm not.

• 8:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, yeah, you gotta read it. It's not necessarily like an educational book like in you're gonna learn about trading or investing or anything like that. It's more so, it's a true story. And Bill Browder was an American who in the eighties, I believe, went to Russia. And he found that a lot of the companies were not exactly reporting accurate numbers. And so it looked like they were much smaller than they actually were. And it's unclear, at least from my reading of it, was it for taxation purposes? Was it to prevent the government from coming in and confiscating their assets or whatever? But he basically started to buy up stock in the companies. And they'd be like, yo, they actually did

• 9:09Anthony Pompliano?

  20 times more revenue than they said they did, right? And the stock prices would explode and he would make a killing.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:15Anthony Pompliano?

  So kind of like activist investor-esque.

• 9:19Anthony Pompliano?

  But he was just doing it in, you know, Russia.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  It's actually interesting that the opposite, I read, there's a book called Red Capitalism about China's financial sector and it's basically the opposite of that, which is, you know, they've grossly exaggerated their size and might and sophistication of the financial. This is going back, you know, 10 years ago. I think the book came out in 08 or 09. Obviously, they've taken significant leaps forward in developing, you know, their capability since then, but it was sort of a kind of casting a bit of a doubt on what had become the only growth story in town, you know, really throughout the early 2000s and then into the early part of 2010s.

• 9:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So what happens with him, which is, I don't know why some people downplay, some people overplay, there's probably a lot of nuance in there, is that he, he ends up becoming wealthier and wealthier and wealthier and wealthier. And at one point, he's talking about everyone from Putin to other investors, et cetera. And he's just talking about him like, you know, it's like, hey, you got a hedge fund, I got a hedge fund, right? Like, whatever. But then there's like the consolidation of power, all this stuff. And so, long story short, is he literally gets to the point where he's scared for his safety and he leaves the country. And at some point, according to his, you know, kind of telling of it, the government, the police, whatever, go to his lawyer's office, lawyer's Russian,

• 10:34Anthony Pompliano?

  and they basically confiscate documents and, you know, illegally, right? In terms of, they just walk in and they basically beat him up and take it. And they arrest him. They end up killing his lawyer. In the book, sorry to ruin it for those who haven't read, but his lawyer's name was Sergey Meniskov, I think is how you say it. I may have it, or Menitsky, I think is actually how you say it. And so, people in the United States may have heard of the economic sanctions, the Menitsky Act. And that's all because Bill Browder went to US politicians and was like, hey, pay attention to this and did all this work, got John McCain, a bunch of these politicians to actually go ahead and levy

• 11:16Anthony Pompliano?

  these sanctions. But what's crazy about the whole story is he now, still to this day, he writes in the book, like, he goes into a restaurant, he goes in the kitchen and watches them make his food. Wow. Because he's so scared that whatever. And so red notice is like, uh, kinda like America's top 10 most wanted. Yeah. The Interpol has a red notice, which is like, you're an international fugitive. And so at some point, Russia convinced, uh, Interpol to release a red notice on him. Ah. And then he's able to basically say, whoa, hold on a second here, like. That's in Fast and the Furious, too. Is it?

• 11:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, my God. I think that's a true story as well.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  Not to, not to, uh, shift gears, but like, to me, what you just described is, is one of the reasons I, I, you know, personally tend to be very anti, you know, corporate tax evasion. And, you know, cause, you know, it's one thing to run a business and obviously we're all trying to turn profits as business owners, but part of, you know, operating in this wonderful country that we live in is understanding that there's a rule of law and there's, you know, you don't have to worry about the government, you know, beating you up and murdering you and taking documents and things of that nature. You don't have to worry about thugs, you know, doing the same thing. And so ultimately, you know, we're paying for that. We're paying for that with our military. We're paying for that, you know, with our judicial system. We're paying for that with everything. And so ultimately, you know, to me, I think when companies try to take their tax burdens to zero, yet they want to sell goods and services

• 12:38Speaker 02

  to American consumers on American soil. To me, I think that's very unpatriotic.

• 12:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. The, the other piece of this whole thing, it feels like, uh, is there an argument that we ended the war in Afghanistan and like this is, hey, how do we create more economic uh, growth? It's like, where can we go to war next? Like, how, how much do you put uh, weight into the like, war generates economic activity, economic growth, and therefore we're a country that given, you know, debt to GDP and, and kind of all the, the challenges that we have, that we have to constantly be going to war with somebody?

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I would, I would look at it from different lines. I, I generally agree with your sentiment in the sense that there is a underlying motive to constantly be engaged in military conflict. Now, this kind of military conflict, kinetic conflict tends to be less valuable, certainly at this particular point in, in, in the time-space continuum. Right now, our military conflict is, and Dr. Pippa Mountgrin is kind of the world authority on a lot of this. So I'm just parroting some of the things she said in recent. Publications, but you know, we're having this big cyber warfare that's kind of going unnoticed. You know, mainstream media and that's where a lot of the sort of development and spending that governments are doing.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  With respect to military spending, that's a lot. That's where that's going. So it strikes me that the risk reward for getting into a kinetic skirmish. If you think about crude oil going from $90 a barrel to 120 plus dollars a barrel. To me, that's a poor trait. A better trait would just be to dump money into the CIA and ride around in submarines.

• 14:07Anthony Pompliano?

  So oil, what is it, 40 bucks? US producers become, uh, become unprofitable. I think somewhere in that range.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, I mean, that number is, that number changes, fluctuates with the price of energy prices. And so, you know, last estimates are somewhere between 50, 60 dollars a barrel.

• 14:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, as long as we stay above that at the current.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're making tons of money. They just don't want to drill.

• 14:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep. And so when it goes to 100, 120 dollars, this is the whole argument of like, what was a couple of months ago? The US was talking about, we might have to tap into our strategic reserves because Russia, Saudi Arabia, a number of other countries around the world were slowing down the pace at which they were. Producing oil and that seemed to be also a geopolitical game that was going on.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, no, tapping into the strategic petroleum reserves is equivalent of peeing in the ocean.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  We've all been there. I mean, you're not making a dent.

• 15:02Anthony Pompliano?

  It just feels like sometimes our solutions, like it said, you're just like, look, by the way, I'm not an expert, right? So like, I don't know. Sure. Like it sounds strategic.

• 15:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? All right. So, and then what about the situation going on in Canada? Like we've been talking a bunch about this. What were your thoughts?

• 15:20Speaker 02

  So you need to fill me on that. I tend not to concern myself with non-market moving events until they move the market. So.

• 15:28Anthony Pompliano?

  So I think this is my view on it. The reason why we're so interested in it is.

• 15:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Years and years ago, one of the first really big inflection points for Bitcoin was WikiLeaks had, came under an absolute shitstorm and a lot of financial organizations started to shut down their bank accounts, freeze payments, kind of all the financial censorship stuff that we now know that they, they can do and will do.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 15:52Anthony Pompliano?

  And when they did that WikiLeaks said, hey, well, we'll accept Bitcoin.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:56Anthony Pompliano?

  And I believe it's Satoshi, let me make sure, I don't want to misquote here. But the, the quote that Satoshi had was, yeah, so Satoshi at some point

• 16:12Anthony Pompliano?

  said WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest and the swarm is headed towards us. And I believe that was one of the last things that Satoshi said. And it, from the analysis that people have kind of looked at is it was not just WikiLeaks. It was just like Bitcoin is becoming too popular too quickly. It's not necessarily built for this. We're going to attract a lot of law enforcement and nation state, you know, intelligence, et cetera. This may not be what we want to do.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, obviously we've got to the point that we've gotten to, but that was the first like mainstream, hey, what is Bitcoin? Why is this important? What is this WikiLeaks thing, whatever? I feel like there's been many between now and, between then and now. But this is another massive one where people are like, wait a second. Whether you agree with the protesters or not, you're telling me that the banks could freeze the payments? You're telling me that the banks can confiscate, the crowdfunding platforms can literally confiscate the money? Like what is going on?

• 17:16Speaker 02

  So fill me in, what's the, what's the 20 second like headline?

• 17:19Anthony Pompliano?

  So long story short is there's a couple of truckers that became a lot of truckers that became literally now the, a 70 kilometer long convoy.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  And they're blocking the major road where most of the trade goes.

• 17:32Anthony Pompliano?

  70 kilometers? Drove across Canada to Ottawa.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:36Anthony Pompliano?

  They filled the streets of Ottawa with trucks and they're not moving. So they basically gridlocked the city and then there is. Is a specific, I think it's a bridge and kind of highway that is a major trade route between Canada and the United States. They're basically, if not blocking, making it very difficult to get transportation and goods across. And so, of course, there's two different perspectives, right? The most extreme versions are, these are people who are protesting vaccine and mask mandates. They don't believe that their government should actually come after them. Ninety percent of truckers in Canada reportedly are vaccinated, so it's not a, we don't want to be vaccinated, it's just you shouldn't tell us and our citizens. And so we're gonna do something about it. We're gonna basically make you uncomfortable and we're gonna, you know, go in and protest.

• 18:20Anthony Pompliano?

  The government argument is, these people are terrorists. And the Canadian government has literally come out and said, if you are participating, if your vehicle is used in the protest, we are going to cancel your insurance on your vehicle, we are going to impound the vehicles. If you try to send more than $25 to these people, we will freeze your account, we will confiscate your phone.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Wait, what?

• 18:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Bad, nasty, nasty shit.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Bad. Trudeau's, he's taking L on this one.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  There's no chance he's gonna get away with this.

• 18:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course, what do they do? And people go back in, you know, social media history and he said all the right things years before, things like, you know, hey, we shouldn't try to crush dissent. You know, any government that tries to crush dissent loses its moral.

• 19:05Speaker 03

  I stand with Hong Kong's right to protest.

• 19:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Just a week ago.

• 19:14Anthony Pompliano?

  People believe Canada was a liberal democracy. And now all of a sudden, he is just acting crazy. And so literally, it's gotten to the point where I saw a clip yesterday from, I think it's called Parliament. Canadians will correct me immediately if I got that wrong. But the Parliament's kind of wild in Canada, where like the two political parties are on either side. And somebody stands up, says something, and there's kind of like a, I don't know what the guy is, but he's like the presider, like kind of like the judge. And so he's like, okay, your time's up, okay, you know, respected, you know, Prime Minister, go ahead, what do you have to say? And yesterday, some woman just took him to town, like she was just going after him. And, you know, her whole side was clapping and everything.

• 19:55Anthony Pompliano?

  And he stood up and goes, while the conservatives would like to stand with people with swastikas, right? And they all start screaming at him. Like, it's like a free, it's like crazy.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  This is borderline comedy if it wasn't so serious.

• 20:07Anthony Pompliano?

  So like that's

• 20:07Speaker 02

  It's like Monty Python as comedy.

• 20:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, as people are saying that they also do the yelling and screaming in England as well. Only only in America do we actually just have a bunch of old people who write papers.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Like in these other places that like

• 20:20Speaker 02

  That no one else reads. I would love to see somebody duff out Mitch McConnell.

• 20:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Can you imagine like Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi just yelling at each other on the They'd be, they'd be wild. It'd be national television, right?

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 20:31Anthony Pompliano?

  So the reason why all of that is is interesting to me is there's a freedom aspect to it. I think it's important. But when we think about it from a business standpoint, we think about it from an investing standpoint, one is you have businesses that have been hurt already, right? By a lot of these mandates here in the United States, we saw tons and tons of businesses because of government lockdowns, et cetera, that they couldn't make it, et cetera. Then you get the opposite argument, which is no, the vaccines and all this stuff allowed for people to go back to work. They allowed for economies to open or whatever. Okay. But then you got Ottawa where like you want to support people's right to protest. But like, there's some people who can't get to work because literally the the city's locked down.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  Well, I think the problem

• 21:14Anthony Pompliano?

  So like, there's a lot of nuance here that's

• 21:16Speaker 02

  There's a lot more nuance. You're absolutely right.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  And I think the problem now, too, is that Canadians and people within the protests are claiming that the bridge is clear, the city is no longer gridlocked, they're protesting in front of Parliament, right? And there are still issues and they're saying, hey, we should be allowed to do this. And then you got the people, you know, they see one guy with a Nazi sign, which is everyone knows that's not cool. But then they get all get labeled, oh, yeah, they're Nazis. You gotta

• 21:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, and it could be a government plant.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, it could be anything is my point, but they're saying now the city is much more clear, but they're still having problems.

• 21:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So people are saying you now can move around freely. It's no longer gridlocked, like, like you can actually move, which obviously is heading in the right direction where that takes away the argument against

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 21:54Anthony Pompliano?

  The protesters. And so I think that one of the the other aspects is Bitcoin. People started to say themselves like, man, I thought Canada was chill.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Like, like, like everyone's just like, okay, these guys are cool people, whatever. Now they're like, well, I saw one tweet that was like, if this got happened in Canada, this got happened anywhere.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:14Anthony Pompliano?

  And so people started to think about Bitcoin censorship resistance, like all it just, you start to realize like, oh, this is all more intertwined with business and investing more so than just like

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:24Anthony Pompliano?

  There's a protest or public health or whatever.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. The ban on sending them payments is pretty aggressive. That's a big overreach. And that's scary.

• 22:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Them labeling people terrorists. That's what they say they're gonna do.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  It sounds like, well, this, this, this issue here does not have enough sort of stuff in it. There's not enough smoke around this particular issue for us to get there, but you could see where we're going with this, right? I mean, five, six, seven, eight, nine years later, with the next crisis or the next two crises, we're going to, we're gonna have governments that take drastic measures like that. That's not to be alarmist, to just being realist, you know, we can see the bouncing ball.

• 23:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. One of the other data points that recently came out, switching gears a little bit here, is US citizens, in a self-reported study, have now said 24% of US citizens say that they have a crypto account. Only 23% say that they have a savings account. So more people now say they have crypto than savings. And so I started to dig into, okay, well, how many people say they have savings?

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Go back, go back. You said only 23% of people self-identified as having a savings account?

• 23:29Anthony Pompliano?

  As in a certificate of deposit.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh. Oh, yeah, your traditional savings.

• 23:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes, correct. Not only just, hey, do I have savings at all, but actually as having like a traditional savings account. And so.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  You'd be buffoon to have a savings account. There's no rates.

• 23:45Anthony Pompliano?

  So I started, I started to look at it, right? And so 25% of Americans say that they have no savings at all for an emergency payment, right? And then 26% of Americans said they have some emergency payments, but not enough for 90 days. So basically, over 50% of Americans say, basically, they couldn't make it 90 days.

• 24:04Speaker 02

  Three months to live.

• 24:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Or whatever, right? And so when you have that as the background, like, okay, only 23% saying that they have like a traditional savings account makes a little bit more sense. But 24% of Americans saying that they have a crypto account, to me, it was like, oh, this whole, like, this digital thing is gonna happen.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Well, capital chase is, it flows to places where it's treated right, right? Where it gets the highest rate of return, whether that be through the actual interest rate, or that they be through, you know, speculation and rise in market cap. So that, to me, makes a ton of sense in the context of having, you know, this ridiculous policy out of the Federal Reserve.

• 24:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. What do you think the Fed's gonna do in March?

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Oh, they're definitely gonna hike. The question, obviously, is the 50 basis point hike. It's getting incrementally priced in, and so it's kind of a 50/50 shot.

• 24:49Anthony Pompliano?

  You think 50 is like the over/under?

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I guess it'd be 37 and a half, right? If you want the over under.

• 24:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  I I I'd sit out this bet. You know, and here's why I'd sit out this bet, right? Like, the Fed has become, you know, sort of, they keep saying that they're data dependent, but as evidenced by their sort of, you know, still ridiculous, ridiculously easy monetary policy.

• 25:16Anthony Pompliano?

  You mean the 0% Fed's fund rate when we have 7.5%?

• 25:19Speaker 02

  They're still doing QE right now to this moment. I think they stop at the end of this month. Like, they're still buying, expanding their balance sheet right now.

• 25:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, just in case.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  And I read somewhere that the last time we had a 7.5% print, it was like 40 years ago or whatever.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  It's 40 years.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  The rates were at like 10% or higher at that point. We're at 0.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:38Anthony Pompliano?

  And so

• 25:39Speaker 03

  We'll just remove the 1 in front of the 0 in 10 and then you get 0.

• 25:41Anthony Pompliano?

  It's like, it's easy.

• 25:45Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, it's just math, guys.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so here, here's why I think that this is probably a different, a difficult bet. And maybe the next bet is probably where investors should be focusing their, their mind, sharing their capital. This Fed has very clearly proven itself to be not data dependent. It's proven itself to be forecast dependent, which Jay Powell has allegedly said many times that he doesn't want to be forecast dependent. But obviously they are, as evidenced by their policy relative to inflation. So if you think about their forecast, one, they have inflation returning back towards trend by the, you know, kind of gets effectively the early part of next year. But more importantly, the yield curve continues to flatten. And I think the yield curve, just Jay Powell being the markets guy that he is, and Clarida, although he just left, you know, kind of established that legacy in the Fed to really be focused on, on markets.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  The yield curve is telling the Fed and telling all of us investors that the economy is, is going to slow down. And perhaps, perhaps materially so. And so to me, I think the Fed might get spooked by that and say, hey, let's not do too much too fast. Let's just do what the markets want us to do, which is get going on tightening. Let's not try to spook or shock or surprise the markets because we are starting to get signals that, you know, we're going to be effective at whatever we do in terms of slowing the economy down.

• 26:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and so if we get 25 or 50 basis points. Like at this point, do you think that either one of those surprises people?

• 27:03Speaker 02

  No, and here's why. So one thing we look at, we track interest rate markets and what they price in, you know, various tenors in terms of Fed policy. You know, the markets have not repriced higher in terms of what they think the Fed funds rate is going to get to in this tightening cycle. All that's happened since October, since November, really, is that we've pulled forward more hikes from the future into today. And so if you look at one thing we track regularly, our overnight index swap forwards, those are just swap contracts on the Fed funds rate. And so, you know, where those forwards are pricing, they're starting to invert around 18 to 18 months, anywhere between 18 months and two years, the curve is actually inverted, which implies the market expects the Fed to be cutting rates at that moment in time, or starting to cut rates at that moment in time. And

• 27:48Speaker 02

  so you think, okay, where will we be 18 months from now? You know, middle of next year, sometime mid to late next year, that's effectively saying the Fed is responding to a recession, right? Why would the Fed be cutting rates? You know, and that's our central thesis is that if the market is already starting to see a recession in the second half of 2023, I think it's more likely that it starts to arrive in the first half of 2023.

• 28:11Anthony Pompliano?

  So this is my general thought process. I'm not nearly as well versed as you are in terms of when exactly it'll happen, or some of the intricate kind of nuance. But my general sense is they are going to wait as long as they can, which probably is March, to start to raise interest rates, they'll start doing some of the tapering, etc. The response is going to shock them, and they're going to return back to 0% interest rate environment pretty quickly and be like, oh shit, we have an economy that literally is dependent on us at this point. And if we don't do this stuff, then we're screwed.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a great call. I mean, this is, so this is what happens in hedge fund meetings. I've been to several thousand of them throughout my career. We have these debates and discussions about the second and third order effects of those things. So what you just said is say, if the Fed pivots dovishly in early in this process as a response to, you know, asset markets going down and things like that, is that positive for bonds or bearish for bonds? I would argue that's probably bearish for bonds.

• 29:11Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't buy bonds, I don't know.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  I can tell you Bitcoin's going to the fucking moon.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  That'd be the best quote ever. I don't buy bonds. I don't know.

• 29:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I literally don't know. I mean, what do you think?

• 29:25Speaker 02

  No. So, so, so bonds usually go up in price, down in yield when the Fed is being dovish. Or sort of the Fed is reacting dovish. So you have something bad that happened, right? And then, once they do the dovish thing, the bond, so going down in price and up in yield. And so my assumption would be that, you know, a dovish pivot out of the Fed would actually fan the fames of this sort of inflation fear that we have in the economy, right? We're right at these critical thresholds, whether you look at long-term inflation expectations in the market, you know, like forward inflation swap rates, or if you look at long-term inflation expectations based on consumer confidence rate measures and things like that, you know, we're kind of right at the threshold where we can call this a cyclical, a very elevated but cyclical sort of impulse in inflation. If we start to go higher from there in terms of both of those metrics,

• 30:10Speaker 02

  this is no longer a cyclical impulse in inflation. This is a unhinging of inflation expectations that could really start to feed on itself. So the Fed will be playing a very dangerous game if they think that's on a part of the playbook.

• 30:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Is there a world where 2% isn't the target anymore? Like, we reset to 3%, 4%, 5% inflation? 5% seems to be extreme, but like, could you see a world where their actual stated goal moves higher in an attempt to kind of reset expectations in the market of like, hey, now the new normal is we're going to live with 3.5% inflation, not 2%?

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Yes, and yes, and it will.

• 30:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, you think that will happen?

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, so we built a large dynamic factor model that tracks all of the different variables in the economy that really influence inflation. And that model, this spit out the stationary mean, you know, on an out-of-sample basis that said, hey, look, inflation should have been around, you know, just shy of 2% on average in the 2010s decade. Well, guess where that average was? It was around 1.8. It was 1.8%. That model is now saying that that stationary mean should be somewhere between 2.4 and 3%. So let's just take the upper boundary of that, of that range. You know, 3% is not quite a doubling of where we've been in the last decade, but it's a pretty big, big shift higher. So based on everything that's developed, where you look at the changes in automation, so this model is measuring change in some of these variables. We look at change in automation, change in the Fed balance sheet, change in money supply,

• 31:33Speaker 02

  all this stuff. There's 16 different factors in the model. And we publish this monthly, so anybody can just go to our research and find it out. If that stuff comes to fruition, if that model is anywhere in the area code of accurate, the Fed won't have a choice. Inflation will be higher. And so they're going to have to say, hey, look, we're going to revise up our inflation target because guess what? They won't be able to do anything about it without, you know, crashing the economy.

• 31:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it just feels like there's a couple of, um, there's a couple of big inflection points of things that they're going to have to do at some point, whether it's six months from now or six years from now, uh, that folks who understand some of the nuance and intricacies are like, oh shit, they're gonna have to do that. Uh, the Bitcoin community is like, that's gonna be a validation. Like, yep, we told you.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:21Anthony Pompliano?

  But even though people see that coming, like the day they're like, okay, we are officially going to move our inflation target from 2% to 3%, I feel like people go fucking crazy on the internet.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 32:32Anthony Pompliano?

  People are like, yo, what?

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask. What do you, what do you guys think the impact of that is?

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Well, it starts with what causes them to do that? Is it a depression or is it an inflationary episode, right? Is it them capitulating and saying, look, man, we can't keep inflation under control? Or is it them saying, you know, it could be something like where we had it today, which is, we only did a little bit of tightening, but we wind up in recession anyway. And so the reality is they might actually have to, in order to allow the economy to grow in this particular decade where there will be more inflation, they almost have to allow their inflation mandate to be higher because if they keep reacting to it, uh, to a lower mandate, they're going to be tightening sooner and faster and more than the economy can allow at various intervals.

• 33:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Somebody is saying, I don't know if this is true or not, you might know, the stated goal already changed. The Fed said 2% average.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. No, I'm saying beyond that. Yeah. Like, like saying, right now, it went from two to their cap of two to an average around two. I'm saying it could go to an average around three.

• 33:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I'm talking about as well. Uh, but I think what the idea of a cap of two to an average of two, uh, there's a lot of methodological, uh,

• 33:40Speaker 03

  Well, they could also just keep changing the CPI calculation, right?

• 33:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Well, exactly. They're just gonna keep messing with all the numbers and doing all this stuff. And so I keep coming back to like, somebody asked. Me recently said, what do I actually think inflation is? And I said, well, look, there's a whole bunch of different ways you could look at calculating. You could look at it just simply if you look at the price of a good over time. That, you know, call it 1980s methodology of CPI calculation will put it at, you know, low teens. Right? If you look at it compared to asset prices, stocks are up 30% last year. Bitcoin's up 65, real estate's up 20 something percent, right? So you get some bigger numbers.

• 34:18Anthony Pompliano?

  But regardless of how you look at it, I think everyone's like, it's not seven and a half. I think that's pretty widely accepted.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:25Anthony Pompliano?

  In a world where inflation expectations come back down. So let's say sub 5%, I don't know, two, three, four, whatever it is.

• 34:36Anthony Pompliano?

  If asset prices continue to go up at an incredible rate, I actually wonder if the market just starts to say, look, who cares about what your inflation number is? The only number I care about is the asset price inflation.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Because that's ultimately going to be what affects my portfolio. But also it's the clearest signal that I have against your manipulated data that continues to change. Like I have no ability to continue to calculate percent changes because underlying the basket's changing. The goods are changing, the methodology is changing. And so like, well, just how much does the house cost today? How much does it go next year and the next year? And like, that's not my inflation measurement, whether it's better or not. It just gives me confidence.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 35:19Anthony Pompliano?

  That I can use that.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  And this is why we focus on rate of change in our research. Rate of change is statistical fact. It's not methodological driven. It doesn't, you know, it's not going to be influenced by whether or not the Fed is or the government of BLS is making, you know, cosmetic changes to the methodology at any given interval. Right? Like a positive impulse or, you know, one or two standard deviation impulse relative to the trend is a fact. That's a mathematical fact. And this is, so this is why, again, our research anchors on that. Because again, we don't want to get into too many of these debates because I think you're going to miss out on a lot of alpha and beta along the way. It's not to say that these rates aren't good. I just think, you know, at various times where, you know, it's like, I think today is a Great example. We're, in our opinion, we're nearing the peak of the inflation sign curve.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  Now, I don't think seven, five is the right number. It's probably 15. But we're peaking at 15 and heading back down to some low, low number. That's lower than 15. And so to me, what I care about is the 15 to 10, or the 7.5 in realized terms to four. You know, that's all that matters.

• 36:20Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. We got time for one more thing, and then we've got David Mercer is going to join. Election season is on the horizon.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  He's already here, probably.

• 36:31Anthony Pompliano?

  How much of the Fed is independent is true? And how much of, oh shit, we gotta get inflation now. We gotta get, you know, kind of everything under control going into the election is being politically driven versus monetary policy needs?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Well, there's two answers to that question, right? So the first answer is, are they officially or even unofficially being politically motivated? Probably not, right? I mean, they're, you know, for the most part, they don't have any real recourse for anybody to punish them if they don't do what they want, right? We saw this with Trump and Powell in 2018, 2019.

• 37:07Anthony Pompliano?

  You mean when the president was tweeting about our currency?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Tweeting he's an idiot and all that stuff? Yeah. But, but I do believe these are human beings, and they have their own political biases, and they have their own theories on how the world works, and how business should be operating, and how the economy should be supporting that through policy. And so, you know, you think about a guy like Powell, who probably leans Republican, probably leans a little more free markets, you know, versus someone like a Yellen, probably leans a little bit more Democrat, a little bit more hands-on as it relates to, you know, affecting economic outcomes. And so I think you have to understand that these are all humans. And it's less about the political pressure that they're getting from the White House or DC. It's just really more about their belief system.

• 37:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's interesting because

• 37:50Anthony Pompliano?

  I do wonder, would we be better off with, let's say, Powell's position, right? As the chairman, being an elected position or an appointed position?

• 38:02Anthony Pompliano?

  And the appointed position, I think the reason being that like, do we really want our central bankers like, you know, campaigning, right? Like, that'd be kind of weird.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:11Anthony Pompliano?

  At the same time, to your point, who holds them accountable? Like, if we have high inflation for two more years, who fires them? Like, I guess the president could fire them mid-term, right? Replace them and bring somebody else in, but that would be highly irregular and probably might cause more fear than, you know, not so like, it's almost like it's an unaccountable position other than every couple of years and you're only accountable to the president.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  This goes back to everything I keep saying about the Fed. It's preposterous that people sit around a room and determine the price and quantity of money. We have the ability, either through blockchain or other, you know, traditional technologies, to vote this in or to, you know, to do a better solution than just having a bunch of elected or unelected officials determine that. So to me, I think there's a better solution regardless. What do you think?

• 39:03Speaker 03

  I agree. I think we're going to look back in decades from now and laugh.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  And laugh out loud.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, then people were sitting in a room.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  There's a guy getting read at a press conference, talking about the price and quantity of money that he was gonna infect, like, that's preposterous.

• 39:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Well, if you remember that they were day trading at the same time.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Oh, Christ.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  No comment. Next question.

• 39:24Anthony Pompliano?

  I still just don't understand how that wasn't a bigger story.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  We know the Fed, it's a three-letter organization.

• 39:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, again, another scam. We talked earlier about the IOC, the International Olympic Committee, and they basically screwed over this young snowboarder. She had a Prada snowboard and it was cool for, for one competition and they made her cover it up, like color over it, but it's the bottom of the board. And so she ended up, something went wrong, she got hurt. And she was like, well, yeah, you guys made me put something on the bottom of my board.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Or whatever. And they were like, well, that's not like a, uh, that's like not a real brand that does sports. They claim they're not predominantly a sporting goods company. She's like, well,

• 40:12Speaker 02

  who cares? Yeah, I would do my school would probably Gucci or something, you know?

• 40:19Anthony Pompliano?

  The real counterpoint was that they, they allowed a Russian athlete who tested positive for a banned substance to continue to compete. And everyone was like, well, that's kind of two different issues that shouldn't be. Shakari Richardson, she, she tweeted, she was like, can someone please explain to me what this is, what's going on here?

• 40:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Damn, I respect that.

• 40:39Anthony Pompliano?

  So I'm like, damn, all I did was get high.

• 40:43Anthony Pompliano?

  She's making her heart get more blood.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  It's a double entendre troll.

• 40:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Just like, can someone please explain this to me?

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Oh, man, that's good.

• 40:50Anthony Pompliano?

  So, all right. Before we let you go, uh, what's, uh, what's your thoughts on Miami so far?

• 40:55Speaker 02

  Oh, love it, man. It's expensive as all hell down here, but I assume that's just a function of the inflation that we're all dealing with.

• 41:00Anthony Pompliano?

  I do think that Miami was just named, uh, the most expensive, let me pull it up. Miami just overtook New York and LA and the Bay Area as the nation's most unaffordable housing market.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  It makes a ton of sense. I got a bunch of buddies down here who's saying their landlords are pushing through rental increases off schedule, like not, not when the lease is up. Have you ever heard of that?

• 41:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, wow. Down here, I haven't heard about that in another.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Basically like threatening like, hey, when your lease is up, if you don't take this increase now, we're not going to renew you. You know, like basically you.

• 41:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, so like midway through the lease.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  Midway through the lease. Yeah. Like I haven't even heard of that. So I mean, clearly there's a.

• 41:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Damn, Miami landlords are gangsters.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  I mean, look around, man. Like it's just this, this telecommuting thing. If, if it sticks, and I think it's going to stick, like, why in the hell would you live in New York? Why in the hell would you live in San, there's good parts of San Francisco, but you know, there's obviously not great parts as well. Like there's going to be a great mass migration that is not just, you know, a pandemic thing. It's going to last for years and potentially a generation.

• 41:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Myself and multiple friends, I talked about it on here before, they saw 20, 25% increases in, uh, in rent, uh, when the leases came up.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  When the leases came up.

• 42:06Anthony Pompliano?

  So I'm sure a lot of landlords like, damn, I ain't waiting six months to do that. Right?

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Totally, totally.

• 42:10Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm going to do that. The other thing, ah, real quick, hold on. Sounds like I should start, you know, hitting up my landlord.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  A tray of pastry.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  Every morning. Mark his birthday on the calendar.

• 42:25Anthony Pompliano?

  So here's one more thing very quickly is a friend in New York sent me their energy bill, their electricity bill. And previously, it was $54, 55 bucks, right? The last one was $243.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 42:45Anthony Pompliano?

  And so you use more energy in the winter.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  In January, December, yeah, of course.

• 42:52Anthony Pompliano?

  And so forget about how much.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Actually, you actually use it the most in the summertime.

• 42:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I was gonna say for AC. So they used to pay 6.68 cents per kilowatt hour. So six and a half cents, give or take. Now they're paying 19.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  It's a tripling. Come on.

• 43:11Anthony Pompliano?

  So like when stuff like that goes on, by the way, like that's not just a New York thing. That's going to happen across the country in a lot of areas, whatever. But like when stuff like that is happening, people also say like, hey, where else can I go? So that I can.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  I see recession and crash on a near daily basis now, and I didn't have the confidence to say that maybe three or four weeks ago, but everything I've heard in the last three or four weeks in terms of data, consumer confidence metrics, statistics like that, you know, like tripling of people's, you know, utilities and all this stuff like, man, like this is how you squeeze the hell out of the US consumer. And there's a lot of people out there hurting, you know, wages are up a lot, but they're still not keeping pace with inflation. And so people's standard of living is going down and their ability and or willingness to take on discretionary consumption is likely to continue to wane as we go throughout this year. So a lot of economists are going to be very disappointed with some very aggressive growth expectations this year if this keeps up.

• 44:04Anthony Pompliano?

  I could not agree more. I appreciate you. Where can we send people to to find you on the internet or find 42macro?

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So 42macro.com. Come check us out. We do, we publish some world-class research for everybody.

• 44:17Anthony Pompliano?

  The best research, the best business show, the best research.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  Thank you. The best research. And I'm on Twitter at 42macroddale. So come holler at me.

• 44:25Anthony Pompliano?

  42macro.com.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 44:28Anthony Pompliano?

  For all of you, you people who are lazy in the chat like me. I just put the link in the chat. You can just go click the link and then you're

• 44:37Speaker 02

  And check out the sample reports too to see if this for you. It's not for everybody, but you know, the work, the work we produce is, is really good for the people who like it. And then if it's not for you, that's all good.

• 44:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Darius is forever a goat showing up in the sofa shirt. John's so mad he's not here.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  I know, I know.

• 44:53Anthony Pompliano?

  It's all right. He's, he's traveling.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  He's traveling. Oh, good for him.

• 44:57Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Thank you so much for coming today.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Catch you guys next week, man. Be good.

• 45:00Anthony Pompliano?

  We'll see you next Thursday. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribed on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.