The Reckoning | Episode 6

The path to healing is not a straight line. It’s a jumbled, messy process, filled with baby steps, dark humor and hard won victories. Stacie’s rebuilding her life, reworking her inner monologue and trying to change the system to help others. If you or anyone you know is experiencing sexual violence and needs help, please visit rainn.org http://rainn.org or call the national hotline at 800-656-HOPE (4673) or text HOPE to 64673. You can anonymously report school employee boundary crossing and grooming and educator sexual misconduct to Safe Oregon. You can call or text 844-472-3367 or email [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. If you’d like to learn more about educator sexual misconduct and get involved, there are many great organizations doing research, education and advocacy work, including: S. E. S. A. M. E. https://www.ncsesame.org/– Stop Educator Sexual Abuse Misconduct & ExplotationEnough Abuse https://enoughabuse.org/The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children https://www.missingkids.org/homeAmerican Association Of University Women https://www.aauw.org/Stop Sexual Assault in Schools https://stopsexualassaultinschools.org/ Image source: Centennial yearbook (1966) via the Internet Archive.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  10 years ago, I would be talking about the situation very differently than today.

• 0:10Sydney Gladu?

  10 years ago, Stacy didn't call it grooming.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  I did a really good job of making it as okay as it could be for people. I knew it was weird. And so I think I probably did an over the top job of making it feel as comfortable as I could for everybody.

• 0:31Sydney Gladu?

  Sometimes that meant avoiding talking about it. But other times, she actually joked about it.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, I married my teacher, but it wasn't that big of a deal. Like, he wasn't like 60 or something, and my family knew him.

• 0:43Sydney Gladu?

  And sometimes people laughed. Sometimes people shifted awkwardly. But that's usually where it ended. Because most of the time, people didn't want to get into it. But occasionally, you cross paths with someone who knows. Every joke has a bit of truth behind it.

• 0:58Speaker 00

  One of my good friends and I were going hiking, and we were just getting to know each other. I told her the story, and it was like, oh, I have a crazy story to tell you. And I remember her stopping me and saying like, I hope you're gonna be able to heal from this. I was like, oh yeah, I'm fine. I'm good. I'm over it.

• 1:16Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy was far from over it. In fact, she was just getting started.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  It's been a long process of really sitting in it and acknowledging what actually happened. Acknowledging that the grooming really happened, starting when I was 15. That slow boil into 18, 19, into 20, I was never able to handle that. I am 44, and I'm just telling people bits of this story that I never felt comfortable telling.

• 1:57Sydney Gladu?

  I'm Sydney Gladu, and this is Not Just a Terrible Story.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  In the 1960s, the federal government embarked on a huge experiment.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  It was groundbreaking at the time.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  The goal: to figure out the best ways to teach.

• 2:20Speaker 04

  They evaluated different philosophies of education.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  When it was over, one approach stood above the rest.

• 2:26Speaker 05

  Oh, 7 plus how many equals 11?

• 2:30Speaker 02

  But a lot of people didn't like it.

• 2:32Speaker 05

  One educator is called the approach totalitarian. Another horrible.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  The kind of teaching that works so well? Most schools don't do it. I'm Emily Hanford. On the new season of Sold a Story, we investigate why. Follow Sold a Story in your podcast app.

• 2:54Sydney Gladu?

  During the course of reporting this story, we reached out to Brett Fisher for an interview. And with a detailed list of questions regarding the allegations against him. At the time of publication, he has not responded to our request for comment.

• 3:09Sydney Gladu?

  Brett and Stacy returned to Oregon in 2006. She remembers Brett was on his best behavior. For a while. They settled down in a different suburb. Brett got that job at InsightTrack, coaching college students. Stacy started teaching design at the Art Institute. The past was starting to feel distant. Their time in Dallas was almost a fever dream. That made it easy for Stacy to compartmentalize. And shelf 2005.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  The reality is, I was glad it was over too, because I was married to him.

• 3:38Sydney Gladu?

  As time went on, they decided to start a family. Stacy was 28, and Brett was 37 when their son was born. That's when everything started changing.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  I started going to therapy after my son was born. I don't know if it was postpartum, but I just felt this disconnect that really threw me. And so I started to go to therapy to figure out where that was coming from, because that's not the mom I wanted to be for this little boy.

• 4:03Sydney Gladu?

  Brett didn't think anything of Stacy going to therapy. And neither did she.

• 4:09Sydney Gladu?

  Life kept getting busier. Their son was a toddler, and they decided to have another baby. A girl. Looking back, Stacy can't tell if that choice fell during one of their good stretches, or if it was just another Band-Aid. Stacy's children are the best thing that's ever happened to her. Becoming a mom gave her a whole new fierceness. But now, with two young kids at home, and two busy working parents, Brett and Stacy found themselves struggling. Their marriage was strung together by long, exhausting arguments.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  My experience with arguing with Brett was, we are going to argue until 3 o'clock in the morning, 4 o'clock in the morning, until I finally gave in. And I'm a very stubborn person, so I'm not going to just give in if I don't feel like that's right. But I do think that I would get exhausted enough to where I was like, fine, I'm just gonna pick my battle, and this isn't gonna be one of my battles.

• 5:01Sydney Gladu?

  One of those battles was about daycare drop off and pickup. Most days, Stacy did both. Her mother-in-law ran a daycare out of her home and watched the grandkids for free. The only catch was Brett's mom lived 45 minutes from them in the opposite direction of Stacy's work.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  I was probably driving three hours a day, just getting the kids back and forth alone, outside of taking care of a home, taking care of kids. I would teach two 4-hour classes, so I probably got there at like 7:30. Taught all day, went, picked up the kids, got dinner ready. And I did the majority of the housework. I did the yard work. I did the house projects. I really was pretty much managing and taking care of most things that were happening at our house.

• 5:45Sydney Gladu?

  Brett was around, and he was working full-time. But so was Stacy.

• 5:49Speaker 00

  It was exhausting. At the same time, I loved being a mom and seeing the kids so happy. So, a lot of it was okay to do. And it was easier to keep Brett from flaring up or doing whatever he was gonna do. And so that just kind of kept the peace in the house, and it kept things fun.

• 6:06Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy was good at pacifying Brett. But she was running on empty. And it wasn't the kids, or the job, or the house that never stopped needing her. Stacy was starting to get some perspective on her life in her weekly therapy sessions. It was exhausting to wake up next to a man that she still didn't trust. On one evening, she found a few moments to sit down and be honest.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  We had a really beautiful house overlooking this view of Lake Oswego, and we could see the sunset. I was working with my therapist on trust and all of these different things. And I just sat him down, and I just said, hey, I don't trust you anymore based on everything that's happened between us. But we've got these two amazing kids, and I know that you have to have trust and a relationship. So, I'm going to just force myself to trust you. And I held my hand out. I'm putting my heart in your hands. So if you do anything else, I'm going to have to make the decision to end this. Because it's too hard for me. And it doesn't feel safe, and it doesn't feel right.

• 7:06Sydney Gladu?

  Sitting on the porch swing, Brett was receptive. He assured Stacy he understood and would do right by her. Stacy had asked for what she needed, and it seemed to go well.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  It was very much a time of like, starting to advocate for myself, starting to ask for help with more of the child duties.

• 7:25Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy's therapist had been encouraging her to do something just for her. Something that would give her a break and help her reconnect to herself. She decided to book a trip to visit her sister-in-law in LA.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  I was really excited to go on the trip. I think I was there for like five days.

• 7:39Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy had a great time in LA with her sister-in-law. They went on hikes and got pedicures, explored museums and restaurants, and stayed up late talking.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  I remember one of our late-night talks, I just said, I have this weird feeling, and I always have this feeling when I travel or when there's like distance with Brett. Feeling like he was doing something secretive or something wrong, or just an icky feeling.

• 8:01Sydney Gladu?

  This wasn't a new feeling to Stacy. But her sister-in-law reassured her.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  She was like, no, I'm sure it's fine. I think you're just like being a little paranoid. And I was like, yeah, I probably am being paranoid. Okay, let's just push it aside.

• 8:13Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy got home a few days later and jumped right back into the mix of parenting.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  We had put the kids to bed, getting ready to go back to work and stuff on Monday. And I said, hey, by the way, could you help me and make an appointment, a doctor's appointment? And Brett was like, yeah, sure, just go ahead and send me an email. And so I sent an email to his work and his personal, just quickly on my phone, like, hey, don't forget about the doctor's appointment. And his work email bounced back out of office. I didn't even think anything of it, honestly. I was just like, oh, that's weird. Your work just bounced back out of office. And he was like, oh, weird. Oh, we're going to your parents' house next week. I must have like set it up wrong. That's really strange. And I really didn't think much of it.

• 8:54Sydney Gladu?

  But as they got ready for bed, Brett turned to Stacy.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  He said, hey, I have to tell you, I just lied to you. I actually took all of last week off. And that's why the out of office came back.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  I just remember being really shocked. And it was just a moment internally I knew that was going to be the end of our relationship.

• 9:14Sydney Gladu?

  This was by no means the worst thing Brett had ever done in their relationship. Not even close to the worst lie he'd ever told Stacy. But it was the final straw.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  It wasn't about him taking time off because I'm taking time off to try and restore myself and get some energy back. And he could have done that, too. What really upset me was you requested the vacation, you planned the vacation, you put your out of office on, you dropped your kids off at your parents' every day and lied to her, then you picked them up and lied to her about what your day was like, and then we talked on the phone and you lied about it. Just so much deception there.

• 9:50Sydney Gladu?

  Suddenly, many things became clear to Stacy. The reality of their relationship, how it had begun, Brett's behavior that she'd explained away all these years, the power imbalance that she pretended didn't exist.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  It was just too much for me. And my eyes were just very wide open that that was going to be my life if I didn't make some very serious decisions. The moment he said it, I just knew. And I told him, I just said, I don't know if this is anything I'll ever be able to get over. Me saying that was me saying, this is the end. But I'm not strong enough to tell you that this is the end right now.

• 10:25Sydney Gladu?

  It would take her six months to tell Brett it was the end.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  I stopped sleeping in the bedroom. And I would sleep on the couch because my anxiety was just so high and I was so panicked and I didn't know what to do. I was getting barely any sleep at this time. A big thing I was thinking is just like, we have these two kids, I don't know what to do. Like, I obviously need to get myself out, but I don't know. I was never raised to get divorced. My parents were high school sweethearts. It wasn't something that I knew how to navigate or understood all that much, except for I knew it had to happen.

• 10:59Sydney Gladu?

  At this point, Stacy was 32. She and Brett had been married for 11 years. Leaving him went against everything Stacy had been raised to do and be. She was cycling between panic and freezing. She had debilitating stomach pain. She tried to carry on, but suddenly she could barely get through the day. One Sunday morning, after a sleepless night of stomach pain, she slept in while Brett took the kids to church. When Brett got back with the kids, they were all in the kitchen.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  We were just kind of in there getting snacks. And there was some argument, and there was always an argument. I mean, we argued a lot.

• 11:35Sydney Gladu?

  In the heat of the argument, Stacy felt a tug on her pant leg.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  I just remember seeing my daughter, who was two at the time, in the kitchen. Her standing there, she's not even as tall as the countertop, you know, just like this little itty bitty tiny girl. And just thinking like, there's no way I can show this to her as a marriage. I just, I just knew I couldn't. I wanted to show her something real where I was respected and I could have a conversation back and forth with someone and we could be on a level playing field and be growing and supporting each other. I think that's when I got up the nerve to just tell Brett, like, it's just done.

• 12:17Sydney Gladu?

  It became clear to Stacy that this was bigger than just her and Brett. It was time to tell him. She wanted a divorce.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  I knew I had to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't tell anyone, not a soul, that I was going to do it, not a therapist, not a friend. And I don't remember it being a huge, big conversation, to be honest.

• 12:34Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy remembers Brett absorbed the news calmly. He didn't push back or try to convince her to stay. Of all the ways she'd anticipated this moment going, she never expected acceptance.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  We would go to mediation together, work through the logistics of finances and kid schedules and parenting plan and what have you. And he definitely would give me like big hugs at the end. And I was like, you've got to just stop. It's just done.

• 13:01Sydney Gladu?

  It was eerie how quickly they started figuring out how to separate. Stacy and Brett switched off parenting duties rotating each week. The on parent stayed upstairs with the kids and the off parent lived in the finished basement or crashed at a friend's house. Everyone in their circle seemed to understand their relationship was over, including their close mutual friend, who we'll call David. David was Brett's age, but had spent countless hours with both of them from the beginning of their relationship. He saw their marriage for what it was, maybe more than anyone else. During their separation, David spent time with Brett and Stacy individually. One day, David and Stacy were hanging out, having a glass of wine. And he told her about a conversation he'd had with Brett.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  He was like, I don't get it. Like, did you not love Stacy? And he was like, no, I loved her. I just thought she'd never leave. I think he thought I was going to do what I always did, where I just gave in, eventually broke down, you know, eventually just decided to make peace. And that was never going to happen. Having children is the proudest thing that I've ever done, but divorcing him was close second.

• 14:11Sydney Gladu?

  It took years for Stacy to realize that she didn't have to stay.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  I honestly never would have gotten divorced had I not gone to therapy in the first place. That's what kind of gave me the courage to do it. I kind of think about therapy like an onion. It's like, I'm getting closer and closer into like the essence of who I am and shedding those layers.

• 14:31Sydney Gladu?

  For Stacy, those layers were laced with dark thoughts that swirled inside of her, echoes that replayed in her head when she found herself in moments of silence.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  I thought to myself all these years, you should have known better. And I have to really struggle with how hard I fell for it. For a long time, I've been really embarrassed. I have this fear of people judging me. What an idiot. I'm still scared that I'm going to get in trouble for this. I don't want this to be my story. I really don't. I don't want this to be my life.

• 15:06Sydney Gladu?

  But in therapy, she started to examine these things she called truths with a critical eye.

• 15:12Speaker 00

  I'm definitely still in it. I'm definitely not healed. I'm at a place where I can talk about it. I'm at a place where I'm not going to be hiding it for him anymore. I even think about 10 years ago, I would be talking about this situation very differently than today. It's been a long process of really sitting in it and acknowledging what actually happened.

• 15:34Sydney Gladu?

  Slowly, over time, Stacy started to reframe some of those negative thoughts and how she saw herself shifted.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  I'm saying what happened. I'm telling my truth and my story. The adult in the room is the one who should be putting up the boundaries. All I can do is work on it and keep working on it and keep working on it. I'm a lot more gentle on myself. When you've gone through something like this, the best way I can handle it is to heal myself as their mom.

• 16:13Sydney Gladu?

  Back in December 2024, Katie and I were in Portland to record with Stacy. We spent time in her world, at her home. We wanted to see Stacy's life today. She has a young son and a supportive marriage to her new husband, Aaron. Stacy and Brett's two kids are now teenagers and split their time with each parent. As we pulled into the driveway, Stacy waved from her kitchen window and met us at the front door.

• 16:40Sydney Gladu?

  Hello.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  How are you?

• 16:43Sydney Gladu?

  Hi.

• 16:44Speaker 00

  Good morning.

• 16:46Sydney Gladu?

  Music was playing in the background, a candle was burning on the kitchen counter, and her youngest son was home from school for the day.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, can you say hi? Oh.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  It's like a game of like smile.

• 16:59Sydney Gladu?

  Yeah, exactly. Like I said, I met Stacy in the interior design world. And the second you walk into her home, you can tell.

• 17:06Speaker 00

  I'm just a mom. Oh, I love your house.

• 17:09Sydney Gladu?

  Oh, thanks.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  So cool.

• 17:11Sydney Gladu?

  Yeah, very eclectic, very like maximal.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  My dogs and those chairs are so cool. Pretty much everything you see is vintage or like was, you know, either from Off or Up, Craigslist, or like a thrift shop or something like that. Like that sofa, that sectional, that was custom made for one of the Trailblazers way back in the day. And it was at this vintage shop. And so that's why it's like extra big.

• 17:36Sydney Gladu?

  Yeah. She gave us a little tour of the upstairs and a personalized gallery wall that hung in the stairwell down to the family room.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  So this, like, these are two watercolors that I've done. But this, like, my daughter did a long time ago. I try and include their art, too. My son did these watercolors. I did this one. And then we have like friends' art up here. That picture is from my parents' house growing up. That little white card is our wedding card that we sent out for like the details of what we were going to do.

• 18:10Sydney Gladu?

  The gallery wall isn't just beautiful. It's evidence of how Stacy has spent the last 13 years of her life unraveling and rebuilding. When you were leaving Brett and moving into this next phase of your life.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:23Sydney Gladu?

  Is this what you imagined your life would look like?

• 18:26Speaker 00

  I literally didn't care what it looked like. And I had no vision. I just wanted to be free from that situation. I actually couldn't even, and this is like not like me at all, but I couldn't even like pack up and move out. My parents had to come up and like literally pack my stuff up for me and get me to the next place because it was like, it was like all I'd ever known, really. It was very scary. And it was also very free. Like, I felt happier than I ever felt, like just so free and like, I don't know how to even describe it to you was, I feel bad saying that, you know, but it just was like, oh, my God, I'm free.

• 19:09Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy's healing has happened in chapters and phases. At first, she had to reckon with all the life she felt like she had missed.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Getting divorced and never having like my twenties, I definitely had a wild phase of like, I'm going to sow my wild oats. So I was a little bit out there for a little bit. It's pretty fun, but had to come down to like reality and get grounded again.

• 19:35Sydney Gladu?

  When Stacy first left Brett, she had never lived on her own. She was suddenly a 32-year-old, single mom with two young kids, trying to make it work. At first, Stacy and the kids moved in with a friend and then later a boyfriend. But things with the boyfriend started to fizzle quickly.

• 19:50Speaker 00

  There had been tension built up since the moment we moved in. I said, I'm going to take some space and take my kids down to my parents' beach house for the weekend, then I'll be back.

• 20:02Sydney Gladu?

  On the way down, they stopped at a restaurant to stretch their legs and grab some dinner.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  So we're in the booth and I said, what do you guys think? Do you think we should get out of there? Or do you, do you want that to happen? And my son was like, yeah. And I was like, all right, I got this. We're good.

• 20:18Sydney Gladu?

  Then, during their visit with her parents, something happened that made Stacy feel like the universe was pointing her in the right direction.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  I have this tattoo on my neck that says Jeterm, and it has two M's in it.

• 20:29Sydney Gladu?

  The two M's are her kids' initials. It's a reminder of her north. Stars, her source of courage and strength. She got the tattoo in a shop below an apartment building.

• 20:39Speaker 00

  I remember going to the tattoo parlor and being like, whoa, these apartments are really cool. Like, I would love to move there someday. So then, when I went down to my parents' house, it was just one of those life moments where it was like, everything was clicking. I started looking on Craigslist and I was like, oh, my gosh, those are the apartments. And there was one for rent.

• 20:56Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy's parents were nervous about her taking on a lease with much higher rent and encouraged her to stay at the boyfriend's house because it was affordable. Their advice was practical and it came from a good place. But ultimately, it served as a wake-up call for Stacy.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  The light bulb went off and I was like, this is it. This is where I learned to just abandon yourself. You know, don't take into account your emotional needs. Just double down. You can do it. You can be tough enough. You can withstand. And just being like, this is where I'm going to make the change.

• 21:31Sydney Gladu?

  She and the kids moved into the apartment a few weeks later.

• 21:33Speaker 00

  I had never really been on my own or had my own autonomy. The kids and I living there was the first time I felt fully alive as a human.

• 21:43Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy said her kids still talk about their fond memories of living in that apartment, like having dance parties and the three of them going to farmers markets and knocking around their neighborhood. Stacy started riding her bike again.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  When I first lived in the apartment and was having a great time and it was so freeing and fun and carefree and kind of childlike in a certain sort of way. And then I started dating Aaron. And just like many relationships, as soon as you have a person there with a mirror and they're putting it over to you and you're putting it over to them, that really opened up the door of like, okay, there's a lot more to unpack here. There's a lot more to address here.

• 22:26Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy had done a lot of work just to get to the place where she could even consider a long-term relationship. When she met Aaron, she wasn't just learning how to be a single mom. She was learning how to be on her own. After a few years in the apartment, Aaron, Stacy and the kids all moved into a tiny house together.

• 22:43Speaker 00

  The only place I could afford in Portland, literally.

• 22:46Sydney Gladu?

  They knew it wasn't their forever home and they wanted to grow their family.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  And then, one of my old best friends used to live in that house right there.

• 22:54Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy pointed out the kitchen window to the house directly across the street.

• 22:58Speaker 00

  And she was like, Stacy, that's going to be your house someday. And I was like, no, it's not. She's like, it has a pool and a basement and da, da, da. And then Aaron and I got engaged and we were at our house, the little house, and he was making breakfast.

• 23:12Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy was sitting at her old kitchen table casually perusing real estate online, one of her favorite pastimes.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  And I was like, oh, my gosh, our house is for sale. And Aaron was like, oh, that's too bad. I'm like, what do you mean too bad? He's like, we don't, we're not ready to sell this house. It's not for sale. And he was going snowboarding that day. So I called my real estate agent, like, get me in this house. So my friend came over and we went through the house. And I remember opening that door and being like, I just have never had that feeling before. I just knew it was going to happen. I don't know, I just saw it. And she was like, don't get too excited. And I was like, no, no, this is happening. I've never had this feeling before. And she was just like, I don't want you to be disappointed. And I'm like, I just, I'm telling you, this is going to happen.

• 23:54Sydney Gladu?

  It was meant to be. They got the house. Stacy's husband, Aaron, is a contractor. So they're kind of a dynamic duo, spending their weekends doing home projects.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  I refinished all of the floors. All the bases new. He's changed out a bunch of windows. He's done like foundational stuff. He did this whole kitchen. The bathroom, I can show you, is like, kind of had mid-renovation for seven years. I don't, I should know what the...

• 24:18Sydney Gladu?

  Maybe the metaphor is too on the nose here. Stacy, in partnership with her new husband, has literally built the life she wanted. But even in this new life, she can't fully escape Brett.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  I would say one of the most difficult things of co-parenting with Brett has been having to be back in school settings with him. There's really never been any peace or resolution in how our relationship started.

• 24:50Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy said her parent-teacher conferences were a big pain point. So are her kids' performances and games.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  I want to go and I want to support the kids. I also have to work on my own anxiety and my own inner workings too. So like, how do I balance that? Especially with the kids in the sporting events starting to be the same age that I was when I met Brett. So now we're looking at 14, 15-year-olds, 16-year-olds. It's triggering for me.

• 25:19Sydney Gladu?

  Recently, Stacy had to go back to Centennial High School to watch a sports game. This game was set to be in the same gym where Stacy had PE and attended countless pep rallies.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  It also makes me feel incredibly protective of my younger self that is sitting next to me in those settings. And that's okay for me to say.

• 25:40Sydney Gladu?

  So that day when you walked into Centennial, did you feel like, like she was with you? Like little Stacy was there?

• 25:48Speaker 00

  Even like pulling into the parking lot, I felt like high school Stacy was there with me going to this game. You know, those lockers opening and closing and people shuffling in and out. And so a lot of those memories kind of flooded back of really like fun times.

• 26:07Sydney Gladu?

  Stacy said the halls outside the gym were covered with trophy cases, banners and sports memorabilia from decades of Eagles victories.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  We walked in the back, which then leads into the gymnasium. So you're walking by like the history of all the sports and trophies and, you know, for both drama, band, sports. It was funny to walk in and it always felt so big to me there, but it felt so small to me.

• 26:36Sydney Gladu?

  As you're getting in there, shuffling in, finding your seat, you didn't know if Brett was going to be there that day or not?

• 26:43Speaker 00

  No, I didn't know if he was going to be there or not. And it honestly would have been really hard for me had he been there, especially in that setting. It's where I went to high school. It's where I went to pep rallies with him, dressed up in a tutu and, you know, that innocence of high school years.

• 27:01Sydney Gladu?

  So when he, when he wasn't there, can you describe how that felt?

• 27:05Speaker 00

  It felt great, actually. It felt really peaceful and fun. And I just felt totally freeing, like a normal mom, which was really nice and refreshing, to be honest.

• 27:17Sydney Gladu?

  At the end of the game, Stacy walked out to the parking lot and got in her car. Something small had shifted.

• 27:24Speaker 00

  I almost felt like my old high school self back a little bit, which is a little bit more energetic, a little bit more playful. I think I played like some old nostalgic music on the way back. And I don't know what to make of it, but I do remember there was this crazy thing that happened in the sky where the sun was shooting through. And both Aaron and I, when we got back, we were like, oh, my gosh, did you see that? And it just kind of was like, it's going to be okay. You're on the right track. It's just, it's hard. But it definitely was a freeing feeling. I don't know that I'll ever be in a healed place from the complex trauma that I've been through. I don't know if that's even possible. But I do know, as I go through it,

• 28:09Speaker 00

  I'm having more days of feeling like at peace. And just, I mean, like at peace.

• 28:19Sydney Gladu?

  Accepting what you can't change is only half of looking back. The other half is refusing to stay silent. For Stacy, sharing what happened in high school and the decades that followed is moving on. Just a couple of weeks before this show came out, Stacy shared with me that even though she's worked through so much, she still felt like she was carrying some of it. And she decided she was done. She needed to release it. Once again, she put pen to paper.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  So many of us have spent years carrying the weight of a school culture that betrayed us. We carried the shame. We carried the embarrassment. We carried the confusion. We carried the silence. We carried the consequences of choices made by adults who were supposed to protect us. But we were never supposed to carry any of it. We were just kids. The responsibility was always yours. So I'm placing all of it, the shame, the secrecy, the confusion, the betrayal, the weight of what happened into a little boat. And I'm placing sage and candles and I'm sending it back to you. We are keeping our voice. We are keeping our truth. We are keeping the lives that we fought to build. This weight is not ours anymore. It's your turn to carry it. It's your turn to do better.

• 29:43Sydney Gladu?

  The first time I spoke to Stacy, I asked her where she wanted this to go. She told me she didn't just want to close the chapter on this part of her life. She wanted to close the fucking book and write a completely different story. So as we reported over the past two years, Katie and I took careful note of all the times we learned about anything, a policy, a procedure, a cultural shift that might have changed Stacy's story, the things that could prevent future instances of educator sexual misconduct. This isn't our exhaustive list, but these are a few of the things you can do today, no matter who you are. Here's Katie.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  The first, and maybe the most important, is understanding what grooming is, what it looks like and how subtle it can be. Being able to recognize red flag behaviors and having language for it prepares you to take action if you ever need to.

• 30:31Sydney Gladu?

  Number two, report anything and everything, even if the quote-unquote rumor, even if it's not your kid. If you have a suspicion, you should always report and follow up to make sure there's a proper investigation.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Number three, vote. Vote in your local elections for school board members. They're the ones who can create district-wide sexual misconduct policies and create a culture of reporting. Also, vote in your state elections. So many laws vary by state. So this is where we can do things like increase the age of consent and expand the definition of a student.

• 31:03Sydney Gladu?

  Four, be in community with adults in your school district. This is how you hear the unofficial news of what's going on at school. Chat with other parents at school pickup and drop-off, at soccer games, theater rehearsal and choir practice. Encourage people to report anything that doesn't sit right. If you want to seek more resources or get involved, there are some really great organizations working on these issues. We've dropped links to some of them in the show notes. I'm Sydney Gladue.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  And I'm Katie Klein.

• 31:31Sydney Gladu?

  Thank you so much for listening to Not Just a Terrible Story.

• 31:57Sydney Gladu?

  We are an independent production. You can support us by sharing this podcast with a friend and leaving a five-star review wherever you are listening right now, or hop over to our Substack, terriblestory.substack.com. There's a lot of great free stuff over there: archival photos, resources, and stories that didn't make it into the show. And you can also get early and ad-free episodes as a paid subscriber. To get in touch, send us an email at [email protected]. This podcast was created and produced by Katie Klein and me, your host, Sydney Gladu. Story editing by Lacey Roberts. Show art by Casey Burnell. Original music and mixing by Sean Simmons. Additional music from Blue Dot Sessions.

• 32:37Sydney Gladu?

  Maria Palaeologus is our strategic growth advisor. Support provided by Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. And a very special thank you to Stacy Love. His bravery, honesty, and determination made this series possible. May her truth-telling give others permission to trust their own stories, use their voices, and know that they are not alone. If you or anyone you know is experiencing sexual violence and needs help, please visit rainn.org. That's R-A-I-N-N dot O-R-G. Or call the national hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE. Or text HOPE to 64673. If you'd like to learn more about educator sexual misconduct, check out the show notes for additional resources.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  In the 1960s, the federal government embarked on a huge experiment.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  It was groundbreaking at the time.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  The goal: to figure out the best ways to teach. They evaluated different philosophies of education. When it was over, one approach stood above the rest.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  But a lot of people didn't like it.

• 34:01Speaker 05

  One educator has called the approach totalitarian, another horrible.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  The kind of teaching that worked so well? Most schools don't do it. I'm Emily Hanford. On the new season of Sold a Story, we investigate why. Follow Sold a Story in your podcast app.