Finding Dory with Zach Cherry

Have you seen Dory? We have! Zach Cherry joins us to talk about 2016's Finding Dory, a film that made a kajillion dollars and set off a run of four Pixar sequels in a row. In this episode, we're talking about Ellen DeGeneres, animating characters without mouths, the success of Modern Family, live action remakes of already live action films, and Zach's proposed future spinoffs for the Nemo franchise. Young Marlin, Old Marlin, Old Nemo - the possibilities are endless! Read: After 30 years of Toy Story, Woody and Buzz face the tech age as a Pixar legend comes full circle in E. W. By Nick Romano. https://ew.com/toy-story-5-preview-andrew-stanton-last-pixar-movie-cover-story-exclusive-11958901 Watch the trailer for The End of Oak Street. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oB9AxspVow Watch 72 Hours when it comes out https://www.netflix.com/title/81715790 Check out the last Raaaatscraps show on August 8th https://www.caveat.nyc/events/raaaatscraps-the-best-improv-show-in-the-world-8-2-2026 Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah. Hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was live streamed for the first time ever, but also the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31David Sims?

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 0:33David Sims?

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Griffin Newman?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37David Sims?

  It's $20. We had a blast and the spread master really got to work.

• 0:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10David Sims?

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  An unforgettable podcast she probably won't remember. So that was one of three taglines for this film. An unforgettable journey she probably won't remember. That one's kind of clever. I don't know if you caught this. It's a subtle thread, but the character of Dory in Finding Dory has memory issues.

• 1:55David Sims?

  That's so true.

• 1:56Griffin Newman?

  Short-term memory loss. Second tagline, have you seen her?

• 2:00David Sims?

  Yeah, that one I liked. I remember those are the teasers because she'd be hiding in the poster.

• 2:03Griffin Newman?

  She'd be really small and it would be like the, the manta ray migration or whatever you'd see sort of, or the stingrays. Is that right? And then the third one was she just kept swimming.

• 2:14David Sims?

  She just kept swimming.

• 2:16Griffin Newman?

  Now. I like this movie, but those three taglines show why this movie needed to happen, which was basically the Walt Disney Company being like, if we just put out a poster with a picture of Dory and any of those three jokes that are just right there for the taking, it will make $1 billion. All you need to do is be like, here's Dory again, and she's still Dory.

• 2:40David Sims?

  That is exactly what happened.

• 2:41Griffin Newman?

  Have you seen her? Great. She's gone missing. She just kept swimming. That's the thing she does. An unforgettable journey she probably won't remember. Love it. I'm laughing and my heart is warm.

• 2:50David Sims?

  She's a fucking fish. Come, come now. The theater, theater seats. You can sit down in any of them as long as you, you know, paid for your ticket and we'll show you the fish and then our business is done.

• 3:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:04David Sims?

  That's how Pixar should advertise things.

• 3:05Griffin Newman?

  We fulfilled our end of the bargain.

• 3:07David Sims?

  That's a sequel shit. She's a fucking fish. Just, can you come? I'm really, I got other stuff to do. She's a fish.

• 3:15Griffin Newman?

  It was one of those movies where there was a lot of marketing, but it didn't feel like there was like audible hype or excitement for it.

• 3:23David Sims?

  No, because like Monsters University had to be like, remember the monsters? They went to school. I'm like, I guess they did. They're like, well, they did. Okay. Listen to me. Okay. And they did. And it was called this.

• 3:34Griffin Newman?

  Monsters University was selling you a weirder take. So it had to be more of a conversation with the public.

• 3:38David Sims?

  Finding Dory was like, we got the Nemo.

• 3:41Griffin Newman?

  And everyone was like, got it. I'll circle it on my calendar. I won't talk about it until then. I'll show up. I'll give my money. I'll see it.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  How far apart were Monsters 1 and 2?

• 3:49Griffin Newman?

  12 years.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  Okay. So about the same amount of time.

• 3:52Griffin Newman?

  And Dory is 14.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Cause 13, 13.

• 3:55Griffin Newman?

  13.

• 3:56Speaker 03

  I was shocked. I was shocked to, in my memory of, of the timeline of Pixar, it was Finding Nemo and then Finding Dory came out like two years later.

• 4:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Like I had no recollection that it was a full 13.

• 4:09David Sims?

  Like you're sitting down to Finding Dory being like, I just found Nemo.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:12David Sims?

  I gotta find her too.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  In my memory, that's how it took place. So then when I like, you know, when I plugged in to do, to do my part of the podcast, I was shocked to learn that there was like a huge gap. I had, I had no memory of that.

• 4:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I mean, first, we lost Nemo under the Bush administration.

• 4:30David Sims?

  Yeah. W.

• 4:31Griffin Newman?

  And Dory was found under the Obama administration.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  And was it like, what was happening with Pixar at the time?

• 4:37Griffin Newman?

  Trump has not had to deal with Marlin yet. He is the first. Well, I guess Biden didn't either.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  Where's Dory?

• 4:44David Sims?

  Yeah, but I was gonna say Biden did have kind of a bit of a Dory brain.

• 4:48Griffin Newman?

  Biden kept asking for Dory and Nemo.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  Which one's law? Well, maybe this inspired.

• 4:54Griffin Newman?

  What were you gonna ask?

• 4:55Speaker 03

  What was happening with Pixar at the time?

• 4:57Griffin Newman?

  Like, great question. I'm so ready to answer.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Was it like?

• 4:59David Sims?

  I mean, we will.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  We need a big win?

• 5:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  That that was, I do remember it feeling like, oh shit, they're actually doing a, they're like.

• 5:07Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna correct Sims here.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  Coming back to Nemo.

• 5:09Griffin Newman?

  It wasn't, you need a big win. It was, guys, it's time to play ball.

• 5:14David Sims?

  You're right. The internal politics, you're right. Totally.

• 5:18Griffin Newman?

  It was, we respect the artistic purity thing, but.

• 5:21David Sims?

  Once in a while, we're gonna fucking do something like this.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Because we gotta cash a check.

• 5:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Toy Story 95, Toy Story 299, they don't make another sequel for 11 years. From 99 to 2009, it's all original films.

• 5:36David Sims?

  Right. And then 2010 is Toy Story 3.

• 5:38Griffin Newman?

  2011 is Cars 2.

• 5:40David Sims?

  That's true.

• 5:41Griffin Newman?

  2013 is Monsters University. 2016 is Finding Dory. 2018 is Incredibles 2.

• 5:49David Sims?

  You're forgetting in 2017.

• 5:52Griffin Newman?

  Is Cars 3.

• 5:52David Sims?

  Cars 3.

• 5:53Griffin Newman?

  And then 2019 is Toy Story 4.

• 5:56David Sims?

  That's right. That's right.

• 5:57Griffin Newman?

  And suddenly.

• 5:58David Sims?

  Suddenly a lot of sequels.

• 5:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And it was just kind of the backlog of, we respect what you've done, but come on, guys.

• 6:05David Sims?

  Right.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  So Dory is right in the middle of this.

• 6:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 6:08David Sims?

  Right, which is boom. I remember when it came out, my reaction being like, ugh, fine, I guess so. I did see it.

• 6:15Griffin Newman?

  This movie was a ginormous success.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  I remember being very excited.

• 6:19Griffin Newman?

  Memory hold just how huge it was, but I do think this was the start of the kind of Pixar fatigue of, is this really what we're doing now? You know, Toy Story 3 was beloved, Monsters University less so, but it had novelty to it. We haven't been sequelizing all of these. Cars had already kind of been written off as like.

• 6:40David Sims?

  Cars is always.

• 6:40Griffin Newman?

  That's the junk one.

• 6:41David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I consider that almost a different.

• 6:44Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  Thing.

• 6:45Griffin Newman?

  But then the accumulation of it by the time you get to Finding Dory is really already just.

• 6:50David Sims?

  This did so much better than Monsters University.

• 6:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, huge.

• 6:54David Sims?

  Monsters University, I don't like. I know you do.

• 6:57Griffin Newman?

  I like it a lot. I defend it.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  How did the originals compare? Like, was Nemo a much bigger hit than?

• 7:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Monsters?

• 7:04Griffin Newman?

  Finding Nemo, when it came out, was the highest grossing animated film in history. It was the sixth highest grossing movie period, I believe. Something like that. It was in the top 10 of all time.

• 7:14David Sims?

  It was a big hit.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  All for that little fish?

• 7:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 7:17David Sims?

  So, it doesn't even have two whole fins!

• 7:19Griffin Newman?

  But that was there, it was like Toy Story, A Bug's Life does about the same, maybe a little less than the first Toy Story. Then Toy Story 2, huge jump up. Monsters Inc., huge jump up. Finding Nemo, ginormous jump up. And then they sort of hit a plateau. Incredibles is down a little bit. It's like Ratatouille up and Wally are all in the like 200 to 300 million dollar range. And then when they pull the Band-Aid off the sequel thing, the numbers go through the roof. It's humongous because there had been so much built up. You have successfully built these characters that have endured and are beloved and have now been like activated across multiple generations. Kids are being raised on these who weren't even born when the first one came out.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  I will say, I'm ready, I am ready for a whole lot more in the Finding universe.

• 8:08Griffin Newman?

  Zach, they announced this week that Ellen DeGeneres, who of course has retired from public life and told us all a year ago that we were never gonna see her again, has signed on to reprise the role of Dory in some sort of undefined short film.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 8:23Griffin Newman?

  They are doing something new with Dory. I'm not either, but it was just interesting, the announcement in and of itself doesn't feel that big, but it feels like it's more of a, is she coming back and is Dory gonna do more?

• 8:37David Sims?

  This is her last film role, currently.

• 8:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 8:40David Sims?

  This is, this is the last time Ellen was in a film.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  Who would get lost this time?

• 8:44David Sims?

  Um, the teacher should get lost.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  I mean, everyone's Stingray?

• 8:47David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 8:47Griffin Newman?

  When this came out, the cynical joke was like- Do you do Finding Marlin to complete the trilogy? And it's like, there's no movie there.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:56Griffin Newman?

  Nothing's being activated by him being lost or found because he also ostensibly is lost in.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  But he's, maybe he's, maybe he's sunsetting a little bit. He's starting to.

• 9:06David Sims?

  Oh, he Biden's.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 9:07David Sims?

  It's older Marlin.

• 9:08Griffin Newman?

  He won't stop talking about.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  That's, you got some juice there. Wait, the little ass turtle.

• 9:13David Sims?

  The little turtle.

• 9:14Speaker 03

  I could fuck with the.

• 9:14Griffin Newman?

  Not scored.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  Spinoff about him.

• 9:17David Sims?

  Isn't it? Well, the, the big one's Crush.

• 9:19Griffin Newman?

  Oh, so it is scored.

• 9:20David Sims?

  It's scored, I think.

• 9:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, totally.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  But I was more, I'm in the mood for a young Marlin prequel series.

• 9:26Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 9:27Speaker 03

  I want to see Nemo, Nemo go on his own epic journey.

• 9:31David Sims?

  Sure.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  I sort of feel like.

• 9:32Griffin Newman?

  You want, here's what you want. You want young Marlin before he's this boring henpecked family man.

• 9:40Speaker 03

  Before his trauma.

• 9:41Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  His trauma.

• 9:42Griffin Newman?

  Just sowing his wild oats in the ocean. And then, so that's prequel. And then on a separate track, you want Nemo flash forward to his twenties.

• 9:50David Sims?

  So this is kind of a Godfather two thing.

• 9:51Griffin Newman?

  Sowing his wild oats in the ocean. You want two separate stories about those young fish fucking around.

• 9:56Speaker 03

  Marlin is Bilbo.

• 9:58Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 9:58David Sims?

  Okay.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  And Finding Nemo is, Finding Nemo and Finding Dory are sort of Hobbit-esque.

• 10:04Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  And then we need Nemo's Lord of the Rings. That's coming down the pipe.

• 10:09David Sims?

  Right.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  He's Frodo. And then young Marlin, you know, is more sort of the lore and Silmarillion and that type of stuff. And that's what I'm looking for.

• 10:19Griffin Newman?

  So then what's the hunt for Gollum of the Finding universe?

• 10:22David Sims?

  If we do Peter Jackson, do you want to do a Hobbit movie?

• 10:24Speaker 03

  I loved all of Hobbit.

• 10:26David Sims?

  This is the answer.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 10:27David Sims?

  Wow.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  I'm deep in.

• 10:28David Sims?

  This is the answer I was looking for.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  The Hobbit was like, yeah, one of the first like real books I ever read as a child.

• 10:35David Sims?

  I mean, for me too, but, but the movies.

• 10:37Speaker 03

  Oh, I love the movies.

• 10:38David Sims?

  Right. You exited satisfied.

• 10:40Griffin Newman?

  We get excited anytime we can identify a cherry pick on this podcast.

• 10:43David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 10:44Griffin Newman?

  If there is a, a.

• 10:45David Sims?

  Just wrote, I was kind of like, hmm. Cause like, if you go to chat GPT and you were like, predict a Zach Cherry blank check episode.

• 10:53Griffin Newman?

  Can't always do it.

• 10:53David Sims?

  Where it's like, he's been on yesterday, the rollerball remake.

• 10:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:57David Sims?

  And now Finding Dory.

• 10:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 10:59David Sims?

  Chat GPT is like, ah, I don't know, man. I need more information.

• 11:02Griffin Newman?

  And you'll swing in Zach sometimes with a cold like, hey, if you ever did this director, I would want this.

• 11:08Speaker 03

  That's right. Fifteen seventeen to Paris.

• 11:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 11:11Speaker 03

  Is my ultimate desire.

• 11:13Griffin Newman?

  You, you called your shot before March Madness on Man on Fire.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  Love Man on Fire.

• 11:18Griffin Newman?

  Tony Scott came close.

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Came close. We'll do him someday.

• 11:21Griffin Newman?

  But like a year ago, maybe we threw to you and we're like, this is what we're thinking. And you were like, I like the Coen brothers, but like respectfully, none of these feel like they have to be my episode. You've always been very kind of like, I'm not going to do it unless I, I feel the pull.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, except for this one.

• 11:38Griffin Newman?

  That's what's weird. It's somehow we just all landed on, that sounds funny.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Well, do you know, do you know how I found out I was doing the Finding Dory episode?

• 11:45Griffin Newman?

  How?

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Our mutual friend Allison Wilmore was here.

• 11:48Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 11:48Speaker 03

  Recording an episode. And she goes, I saw you on the calendar.

• 11:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  For Finding Dory.

• 11:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  I went, oh, okay. I guess that bit was real.

• 11:56Griffin Newman?

  We had sent you like the year's schedule and you said, hmm, Finding Dory, I have been eager to defend my good friend Ellen DeGeneres on Mike.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 12:05Griffin Newman?

  Which was a joke.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:06Griffin Newman?

  But then David and I looked at each other, stroked our chins and went, does sound like a good episode.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 12:12Griffin Newman?

  We're going to hold him to this.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  And I will defend her to this day over her sitcom.

• 12:18Griffin Newman?

  Great sitcom.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  I thought that was good.

• 12:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we were, we were talking about this in, in the Nemo episode of just like, Ellen was so fucking funny.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Oh, she's so funny. I mean, she, she genuinely, there was a time when I was like, she's the funniest person on the planet. Like I, you know, I sort of cycle through my, who's like doing it for me at the moment. And there was a time when I was like, I would watch her talk show and just everything she said would make me laugh.

• 12:45Griffin Newman?

  It was impressive that she was still funny on the talk show.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's hilarious.

• 12:50Griffin Newman?

  That there was, you know, she still was able to be kind of dry and cutting. And then off camera.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  Sure. Off camera, occasionally she had a bit of a sharp edge, possibly. Have we discussed the, the second Ellen sitcom, the Ellen show?

• 13:04Griffin Newman?

  We talked about it in the Nemo episode, where she owns the bookstore.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  No, that's the first Ellen show. Ellen, she owns a bookstore.

• 13:10Griffin Newman?

  Oh, the second one is the radio show?

• 13:12Speaker 03

  It's set in the wake.

• 13:14David Sims?

  I don't see that. No, it's in the wake of the dot com bubble bursting. This is a 2001 sitcom. You know, it's like really, really, and her internet company goes bankrupt. She moves to her hometown. She's got a crazy mom played by Clarice Leachman. Scatterbrained sister played by Emily Rutherford. I love that actress. Great actress. Meets an old prom date who thinks they can pick up where they left off, but she's gay. So he doesn't get that played by Jim Gaffigan.

• 13:44Griffin Newman?

  This was the gay show. This was the, yes.

• 13:47David Sims?

  Martin Mull plays a befuddled teacher. Oh yeah, that's really hard for Martin Mull.

• 13:51Griffin Newman?

  The great Carrie Kenny on it as well.

• 13:53David Sims?

  Yeah. And like, and then she becomes a guidance counselor at high school.

• 13:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 13:58David Sims?

  So it's like a very kind of like star laden thing.

• 14:01Griffin Newman?

  Co-created by Mitch Hurwitz.

• 14:03David Sims?

  Mitch Hurwitz of Arrested Development.

• 14:05Griffin Newman?

  And Carol Leifer, legendary comedy writer. Yeah.

• 14:08David Sims?

  But like, one of those things where I feel like they were like, we got A-list talent.

• 14:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:13David Sims?

  Ellen is now a fully realized, like, you know, society's on board with like gay Ellen. Like there's no shock here anymore. And it aired and everyone was like, no, thank you. I got canceled.

• 14:24Griffin Newman?

  This is.

• 14:25David Sims?

  The dot com boom of it all may have.

• 14:27Griffin Newman?

  That is.

• 14:28David Sims?

  May have doomed it.

• 14:28Griffin Newman?

  Who cares? Not to psychoanalyze too much, but it was interesting when she was doing, her episode of the Letterman Netflix show was before the toxic workplace stuff came out, but was the first time where I saw the mass kind of fall of, she's really angry. And maybe she did a marin and I felt this as well. She has so much lingering anger of how much the industry threw her out while celebrating her bravery for coming out. And then all of the stuff she did after coming out was rejected. And then she has this incredible, like Nemo comes out May 2003.

• 15:10Griffin Newman?

  The Ellen show premieres like that September or October, like within the year 2003. She has completely rebounded to the height of American pop culture. And yet it feels like the longer that success extends and the bigger it gets, the more her resentment brews of what happened in that five year wilderness period. And it just like metastasized into this pit of like.

• 15:39David Sims?

  Wait, you see this short film?

• 15:42Griffin Newman?

  It's called Dory settles some grudges.

• 15:44David Sims?

  Yeah, right. Dory's like, it's fine that I'm rich.

• 15:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:47David Sims?

  Actually, it's good.

• 15:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:48David Sims?

  She's just swimming back and forth really angrily.

• 15:51Griffin Newman?

  But I like, I get the, the angle of she was sort of pressured into coming out. There was this feeling of good for you.

• 15:58David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. And then everyone was like, but by the way, we're done with you.

• 16:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you can't work anymore.

• 16:03David Sims?

  Right. Come on.

• 16:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 16:04David Sims?

  Like you're a gimmick now. I think Ellen's good. I'm pro Ellen.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  I think she's brilliant. I think her performance in Finding Nemo.

• 16:11David Sims?

  I don't think she's.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  And Finding Dory is so good. I think she's.

• 16:14Griffin Newman?

  We were making the case in the Nemo episode that she should have been nominated for best supporting actress.

• 16:19David Sims?

  For that one, for sure.

• 16:20Griffin Newman?

  And when you look at the lineup of who got in that year, it's, it's almost absurd that she didn't get in.

• 16:26Speaker 03

  Does, has anyone ever been nominated for a voice performance?

• 16:29David Sims?

  Never, never happened. She was bandied around at the time because I do feel like it was such a breakout thing, what she was doing.

• 16:35Griffin Newman?

  And the BAFTA Awards had nominated Eddie Murphy for Shrek.

• 16:39David Sims?

  They nominated Donkey.

• 16:40Griffin Newman?

  Incredible because.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  Oh, he's so good in that.

• 16:42David Sims?

  He is.

• 16:44Griffin Newman?

  The BAFTA Awards have historically had such a bad track record with black actors manifesting in some weird things that happen at this.

• 16:51David Sims?

  There have been no recent incidents. What are you talking about?

• 16:54Griffin Newman?

  But like the BAFTAs have never nominated Denzel Washington one time.

• 16:59David Sims?

  Is that really true? I, I, I, of course they often snub him, but I was like, really? They never got him in there?

• 17:04Griffin Newman?

  After the I swear thing, I was like, let me do like a full cataloging of this. They literally never nominated Denzel. But then also you look through like, who are the black actors who get the Oscar noms and how often do they miss the BAFTA nom?

• 17:17David Sims?

  Yeah, no, it's, it's.

• 17:18Griffin Newman?

  And it's crazy. And then it's wild that it's like the only one of the major groups, if you, you know, if you go.

• 17:26David Sims?

  I know, but is this, does this?

• 17:27Griffin Newman?

  Academy, the only one of them to ever nominate a voiceover performance is BAFTA Eddie Murphy, Shrek. It's a great performance.

• 17:35David Sims?

  It is. So like I salute them doing it.

• 17:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:38David Sims?

  But at the same time, is it insulting where they're like, we loved you as Donkey?

• 17:41Griffin Newman?

  A little bit. There's a little bit of a like, is this backhanded?

• 17:44Speaker 03

  It's a makeup nomination for Mushu. This is true.

• 17:48David Sims?

  So true.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  They didn't get him for Mushu.

• 17:50David Sims?

  Disney definitely would do the exact same thing next time. We're gonna do a big Chinese epic. Who's the dragon in Mulan?

• 17:57Griffin Newman?

  In Mulan. Oh, sure.

• 17:58David Sims?

  Cause in the 90s post genie, it was basically like, there better be a little guy and he better be voiced by someone.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  It is genuinely another incredible performance.

• 18:05David Sims?

  It is. He's good as Mushu. The live action remake had no Mushu, right? Like no.

• 18:09Griffin Newman?

  Correct. I think there's like a statue at one point.

• 18:12David Sims?

  Cool.

• 18:13Griffin Newman?

  That they point at. It's like an exclusively Mushu moment, but there is no actual living representation of Mushu. But yes, you're right. It is funny that they were just like.

• 18:22David Sims?

  Might've been a mistake.

• 18:23Griffin Newman?

  We want to explore like Chinese folklore. Also, there is a dragon who just sounds like 80s Eddie Murphy.

• 18:30David Sims?

  And he's called Mushu.

• 18:31Griffin Newman?

  He's called Mushu.

• 18:33David Sims?

  Come on!

• 18:34Griffin Newman?

  And the bit is that he's got like, a kind of inferiority complex. He's little and he can't spit fire.

• 18:40David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 18:41Griffin Newman?

  But he also kind of finesses everyone in conversation.

• 18:46Griffin Newman?

  We're not talking about Mulan, but we might talk about Mushu some more.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  Nobody from Mario was nominated for an Oscar?

• 18:52David Sims?

  You mean the recent Super Mario movie?

• 18:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:54David Sims?

  Now, who are you going for? Who's getting the trophy in your eyes?

• 18:57Griffin Newman?

  Ah.

• 18:58David Sims?

  I've seen that movie, I would say 15 to 20 times at this point.

• 19:01Griffin Newman?

  We're talking the first one. The Super Mario Brothers.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  I'm thinking of Galaxy.

• 19:06Griffin Newman?

  Okay, Galaxy.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  It's not eligible yet.

• 19:08Griffin Newman?

  Yet.

• 19:08David Sims?

  Yeah, right, right, right. We never know. Who's getting the win for Galaxy?

• 19:12Speaker 03

  I actually haven't seen it.

• 19:14David Sims?

  Now, I've seen it. I've seen it with my daughter. She loved it. She would give everyone an Oscar if she knew what an Oscar was.

• 19:21Griffin Newman?

  We, in our, in our blankies, we always try to do a best voiceover category.

• 19:25David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 19:26Griffin Newman?

  If that existed at the Oscars, they would have nominated Jack Black for the first Mario.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, he's great.

• 19:30David Sims?

  Right? And not Chris Pratt.

• 19:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes, that would have been the lone nominee.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  Who have, who have been some of your nominees in the, in the recent years in that category?

• 19:39David Sims?

  You know, like Ben Whishon Paddington is a good example. A really outstanding voice performance. What are some good ones? I'm trying to think.

• 19:45Griffin Newman?

  I feel like Jake Johnson in Spider-Verse was one we called out. Yeah, now I want to look through the, the history.

• 19:51David Sims?

  You know, I love Holly Hunter in The Incredibles movie.

• 19:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 19:54David Sims?

  Right? Like, that's a really, and I mean.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  Honestly, there would be quite a few from both Finding Nemo and Finding.

• 20:01David Sims?

  Finding Nemo and Finding Nemo's got great voice acting and we're going to talk about Finding Dory. It does kind of the same thing as Nemo that I appreciate of like, we're not getting the Super Mario root of just like, who's famous right now? Like, we're gonna get character actors, sitcom actors, you know?

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Ty Burrell is great in Finding Dory.

• 20:21Griffin Newman?

  He was the ultimate triumph of this movie for me, and I feel like this is rarely the case in a sequel. Every new character introduced in this film is excellent.

• 20:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 20:30Griffin Newman?

  There is no like, you're trying to make this happen.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  Hank?

• 20:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Or is he Frank?

• 20:35David Sims?

  Hank. He's Hank. You got it. You got it. He's Hank. He's good.

• 20:38Griffin Newman?

  But I think all the new characters are great, well-designed, funny, well-developed, well-cast, don't feel like.

• 20:44David Sims?

  There's also not that many.

• 20:45Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 20:45David Sims?

  Like, it's not overwhelming you with a bunch and you, yeah.

• 20:50Griffin Newman?

  Which often is the thing. They're like, can we throw 20 new darts at the board and see which one of these sells merchandise?

• 20:55Speaker 03

  Well, I have some issues with Gerald, but we'll get to him.

• 20:59Griffin Newman?

  Gerald and not Becky? You're fine with Becky, but not Gerald?

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Becky, I have less issues with, but Gerald.

• 21:05Griffin Newman?

  There was touchiness at the time.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Gerald and Becky, I have, I have minor quibbles.

• 21:09Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Becky. Becky's the bird with the bucket.

• 21:12David Sims?

  Oh, right.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  And Gerald is the sort of.

• 21:14David Sims?

  Gerald's the dumb.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  Massive eyebrow.

• 21:16David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 21:18Griffin Newman?

  This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 21:20David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 21:21Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmographies. David's giving me a thumbs up. Directors who have massive success early on in their career, such as making Finding Nemo, and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want, such as Wally or John Carter. Sometimes those checks clear, see Wally. Sometimes they bounce.

• 21:38David Sims?

  See John Carter.

• 21:39Speaker 03

  I did like John Carter.

• 21:40David Sims?

  Yeah, you would have been good on that app. I mean, it was a good app.

• 21:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Sometimes a filmmaker is holding such an incredible get out of movie jail free card.

• 21:48David Sims?

  He is.

• 21:48Griffin Newman?

  That they can immediately recover from the most notorious flop of.

• 21:52David Sims?

  Right.

• 21:52Griffin Newman?

  The decade, the century.

• 21:54David Sims?

  Disney calls him and is like, hey, by the way, John Carter's gonna lose like $200 million. And he's like, I think I just found Dory. And you're like, well, see. Tomorrow, baby. You can do anything you want.

• 22:03Griffin Newman?

  I can cover that. I'm good for it. I see.

• 22:05David Sims?

  Yeah. Oh, my God.

• 22:06Griffin Newman?

  Fascinating.

• 22:07David Sims?

  I think the best voice performance in Super Mario Galaxy is Benny Safdie as Bowser Jr. That's the one where I was kind of like, well, he's doing something and this is interesting. Like, most everyone else, I was kind of like, you're kind of doing what you're supposed to do.

• 22:19Griffin Newman?

  Charlie Day has more to do in the second one, and I do.

• 22:21David Sims?

  I like him.

• 22:22Griffin Newman?

  I find him effective.

• 22:22David Sims?

  I think he's good.

• 22:23Griffin Newman?

  But, yeah, the first one spends 90% of the movie in a fucking cage.

• 22:26David Sims?

  He is in the cage. Who is Charlie Day?

• 22:28Griffin Newman?

  It's Finding Luigi.

• 22:30David Sims?

  Luigi.

• 22:30Griffin Newman?

  The first movie is Finding Luigi. He goes missing.

• 22:33David Sims?

  All I'll tell you is, I told you, I think, before, my daughter was very locked into Luigi both times because she really likes it. He's scared. Scared. Like, she identifies exactly.

• 22:41Griffin Newman?

  Is your daughter easily scared?

• 22:43David Sims?

  I mean, like, I'm not saying this judgmentally. Maybe, like, I just feel like there's not a lot in life right now. Children are pretty easily scared. I mean, she's scared of dogs, but that's such a classic little kid thing. I'm trying to think, like, when else she gets scared. I mean, I'm going to say yes, because, like, the Halloween cat in the Disney Plus show Super Kitty scared her.

• 23:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:01David Sims?

  And I've seen the Halloween cat, and he ain't scary. He's mischievous at best. And she's, like, in bed at night being like, the Halloween cat's gonna get me. And I'm like, the Halloween cat steals candy. Like, he doesn't even scare anyone.

• 23:13Griffin Newman?

  But mischief can be the scariest thing of all.

• 23:16David Sims?

  I think to a kid, it's a little bit like the kind of like.

• 23:19Griffin Newman?

  Disrupting order.

• 23:19David Sims?

  And they're, like, sneaking around, like, you're not supposed to. I don't know.

• 23:23Griffin Newman?

  And that's my candy. The rule of law is premised on a lack of mischief.

• 23:28David Sims?

  Yeah, this is true. Really, she does not like the Halloween cat.

• 23:30Griffin Newman?

  I just always, especially we're talking about, like, children's media or things that are designed to play for children, at least partially.

• 23:37David Sims?

  Right. I saw some scary shit when I was a kid, like, because no one was really watching the store.

• 23:41Griffin Newman?

  I find it.

• 23:42David Sims?

  This is a cartoon, like, won't scare you, right?

• 23:44Griffin Newman?

  People can be algorithmic about these things and design these things in a lab, right? And the Mario movies are a perfect example of that. But sometimes you just hit on something where you're like, this speaks to kids.

• 23:54David Sims?

  Yes.

• 23:55Griffin Newman?

  You have, you have developed this character correctly, cast the right person, the right design, and kids see this, and they just go like, that's me, I get it, I'm gonna ride with this forever.

• 24:03David Sims?

  Dory.

• 24:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you have said, David, that you have watched this movie many, many more times than Finding Nemo at this point.

• 24:09David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:09Griffin Newman?

  Because your daughter is hyper fixated on baby Dory.

• 24:12David Sims?

  Yeah, but and I just feel like also just generally, it's like this movie has more Dory.

• 24:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:18David Sims?

  Dory is the best.

• 24:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 24:20David Sims?

  So thus it's better.

• 24:22Griffin Newman?

  And makes Dory the vulnerable character in a way that

• 24:24David Sims?

  Yes.

• 24:24Griffin Newman?

  Fascinatingly, I think kids ended up relating to harder

• 24:28David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:29Griffin Newman?

  than Nemo, the literal child in the first one.

• 24:31David Sims?

  Nemo is fine because Nemo's, Nemo's very confident. Like, you know, it's like Nemo's gonna be all right. And like Marlin, like, I mean, I like Marlin.

• 24:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:39David Sims?

  We all like Marlin. You know, good job, Marlin. But like my daughter's not

• 24:44Speaker 03

  I don't know if I like Marlin.

• 24:45David Sims?

  Yeah, right. Even though I am Marlin. What's up with Marlin? Right. Maybe that's why you don't like him.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  This was the, this was the first time, because I

• 24:51David Sims?

  He's holding up a mirror.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  I watched Finding Nemo to prepare and it was the first time that I identified with Marlin straight down the mirror and had some hard talks with myself.

• 25:02Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's tough.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:04David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  And I did also, I did also watch Finding Forrester to complete the trilogy.

• 25:08Griffin Newman?

  Oh, perfect.

• 25:09David Sims?

  Oh, thank you. You're the man.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  And I'm, I am not joking. I did do that.

• 25:12Griffin Newman?

  Our guest today is Zach Cherry. It's a cherry pick. Finding Dory, the 2016. It doesn't win best animated film.

• 25:20David Sims?

  No.

• 25:20Griffin Newman?

  What did?

• 25:21David Sims?

  I'll find out.

• 25:22Griffin Newman?

  In 2016, it would have, this is the Zootopia year, I believe.

• 25:26David Sims?

  My question was, does it even get nominated for an Oscar?

• 25:28Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 25:28David Sims?

  Does it? Let's find out. Let's.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  Well, on the freaking M and M's commercial.

• 25:32David Sims?

  Hey, well, actually, that sounds pretty, pretty hot. No, no Oscar nom.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  That's wow.

• 25:37David Sims?

  They snubbed the Oscars. They snubbed sequels. They don't like sequels.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:41David Sims?

  Uh, I can tell you, let's find out what the best animated film nominees were in what this is 2016.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  I guess Beavis and Butthead.

• 25:51Griffin Newman?

  Okay, wait, 2016.

• 25:52David Sims?

  Okay, I will say it's a pretty strong field. There's a reason this did not make it.

• 25:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so Zootopia wins.

• 25:58David Sims?

  Yes, correct.

• 25:58Griffin Newman?

  Tell me the distributors of the other four.

• 26:00David Sims?

  Uh, one of them is

• 26:02Griffin Newman?

  Laika. So that would be

• 26:05Speaker 03

  Kubo.

• 26:06Griffin Newman?

  Which is an excellent film. Should have won.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  Good movie.

• 26:09Griffin Newman?

  But Zootopia won.

• 26:10David Sims?

  Zootopia's good. Yeah. I mean, these are all, these are good movies.

• 26:12Griffin Newman?

  Still kind of a cram that Laika has not won.

• 26:15David Sims?

  Yeah, never has.

• 26:16Griffin Newman?

  An Oscar yet. Yeah.

• 26:17David Sims?

  It should have won, right? Because Coraline

• 26:20Griffin Newman?

  Is the up year.

• 26:21David Sims?

  Yeah, Coraline is the one it's, they should have been handed that one.

• 26:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:25David Sims?

  And then Paranorman would have been a fine winner over fucking Brave.

• 26:28Griffin Newman?

  That's what's embarrassing. I was really hoping.

• 26:31David Sims?

  Ralph's in there too.

• 26:32Griffin Newman?

  Rick and Ralph going in was the presumed winner and it was sort of shocking.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Ralph was the same year as Finding Dory?

• 26:37David Sims?

  No, it's the same year as Brave. We're jumping all over here. It was shocking, but it was also an indication back then that they were like, I don't know, isn't the Pixar thing the best one?

• 26:44Griffin Newman?

  Which, which is why it's interesting that so quickly they switched to, we're willing to snub Pixar if they're gonna do this sequel shit.

• 26:51Speaker 03

  Zach, you fuck with Ralph? Oh, I love Rick and Ralph. He's such a great guy. The first one is awesome.

• 26:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:57David Sims?

  He's like, the only.

• 26:58Griffin Newman?

  Well, you were angry that he broke the internet because you were trying to use it that day.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  I had to submit my taxes.

• 27:05David Sims?

  The only.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  And it's like, what am I gonna do?

• 27:08David Sims?

  What the fuck, Ralph?

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Ralph, come on, Ralph.

• 27:10David Sims?

  Could you have checked in with me before?

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:13David Sims?

  The only Pixar sequel that is nominated in between the two Toy Story sequels, you know, three and four, which they, you know, gave the trophy to.

• 27:21Griffin Newman?

  Incredibles two?

• 27:22David Sims?

  Is Incredibles two.

• 27:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:23David Sims?

  Everything else, they were like, no, thank you.

• 27:25Griffin Newman?

  And that loses to Spider-Verse, right?

• 27:27David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 27:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:28David Sims?

  Which is fine. Okay. So Zootopia, Kubo, another giant Disney animated film.

• 27:34Griffin Newman?

  It's a second.

• 27:35David Sims?

  Which is, this is also why Finding Dory didn't get in. It's like, there's already two big Disney.

• 27:38Griffin Newman?

  Was Big Hero the same year?

• 27:39David Sims?

  No, come on, 2016. I saw this movie right after Trump was elected.

• 27:44Griffin Newman?

  You saw this movie right after Trump? Oh, it's Moana.

• 27:46David Sims?

  Moana.

• 27:47Griffin Newman?

  Moana.

• 27:48David Sims?

  And then there's two indie movies, like two small films.

• 27:51Griffin Newman?

  G Kids?

• 27:52David Sims?

  One is G Kids, I think. One is sort of G-bleesque, but wasn't, I don't think actually was G-ble.

• 27:57Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 27:58David Sims?

  Uh, right. It was, no, it was, it was a product, co-production with G-ble and some French guys. It's watery too.

• 28:05Griffin Newman?

  It's wat- it's a, it's a watery G-ble.

• 28:07David Sims?

  It's water.

• 28:08Griffin Newman?

  He says it's a French watery G-ble.

• 28:09David Sims?

  It's kinda not G-ble, but it's still, you know, it's kinda like half G-ble. It's called The Red Turtle.

• 28:15Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:15David Sims?

  It's very pretty.

• 28:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 28:16David Sims?

  And then.

• 28:17Griffin Newman?

  Even heard of that. Mac and Rita? Mac and Rita? That was my guess.

• 28:21David Sims?

  Oh, oh, the other, oh, no, no.

• 28:23Griffin Newman?

  It's not that.

• 28:23David Sims?

  The other one is a, a French, uh, stop motion film that is really great.

• 28:28Griffin Newman?

  Oh, My Life is a Zucchini, which rules.

• 28:30David Sims?

  One of the great titles.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  And My Life is a Zucchini.

• 28:32Griffin Newman?

  And fucking written by, uh.

• 28:35David Sims?

  Celine Shum.

• 28:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Mac and Rita is the fucking Netflix show. What's the thing I'm thinking of? Or no, that was, it was a Diane Keaton thing.

• 28:40David Sims?

  He's spiraling here.

• 28:41Griffin Newman?

  There was that.

• 28:41David Sims?

  Well, there's Ernest and Celestine.

• 28:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes, that's French lovely animals.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Frankie and Grace is the Netflix show.

• 28:46Griffin Newman?

  That's the Netflix show, but then there is something called Mac and Rita with Diane Keaton. I'm thinking of the one that was kinda sexy.

• 28:52David Sims?

  Oh, I know what you're talking about. Let me find.

• 28:54Griffin Newman?

  Where I want to say it was.

• 28:54David Sims?

  Chico and Rita.

• 28:56Griffin Newman?

  Chico and Rita.

• 28:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 28:57Griffin Newman?

  It was like this tune.

• 28:58David Sims?

  Little Spanish.

• 28:59Griffin Newman?

  Might make your pants tighten.

• 29:01David Sims?

  That was the tagline.

• 29:02Griffin Newman?

  They dance pretty close.

• 29:04David Sims?

  I do think that in a maybe a slightly less packed year, it might've gotten the nom. But that's a big, you know, there's already these two giant things in Moana and Zootopia. So they're kind of like, eh.

• 29:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 29:16David Sims?

  We don't need Dory. I might nominate Dory. Did I nominate Dory? I like this movie.

• 29:21Griffin Newman?

  I like this one a lot.

• 29:22David Sims?

  But I've grown to like it. When I saw it in theaters, when it came out, it's not like I hate it or anything. But I was just sort of like, that's exactly what I thought it was going to be. It was totally fine. I don't remember it walking out the theater.

• 29:33Griffin Newman?

  And also your daughter's experience I've, I've found is not unique. A lot of our friends, your age, with children, your daughter's age are like, yeah, my kid watches Dory way more than Nemo.

• 29:45David Sims?

  Yeah, Dory rocks. And now this movie.

• 29:48Griffin Newman?

  The second highest grossing film of its year domestically. It was beaten only by Rogue One. It made $486 million domestically.

• 29:55David Sims?

  It made a billion dollars worldwide. It was.

• 29:58Griffin Newman?

  It made a full billion, a giant hit. Yeah.

• 30:00David Sims?

  Big hit. And like, that's great. But Moana, which was sort of like slightly an underperformer at the time.

• 30:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:09David Sims?

  Has like, has outgained it in legacy.

• 30:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 30:13David Sims?

  By a lot.

• 30:13Griffin Newman?

  That's a fascinating one where it only seemed like an underperformer because Frozen had been so humongous.

• 30:19David Sims?

  And Zootopia and.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  Songs help your legacy a lot.

• 30:22David Sims?

  They do. They do.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  Because they exist outside of actually watching the film.

• 30:27David Sims?

  You can put them in the parks. You can put them on ice. You can put them in a whatever, right?

• 30:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, put them on a hit clip.

• 30:33David Sims?

  Really good looking live action versions of these films.

• 30:36Griffin Newman?

  You can.

• 30:36David Sims?

  That just look the same.

• 30:39Griffin Newman?

  David, let me rephrase what you're trying to get at. The idea, you could perfect them.

• 30:45Griffin Newman?

  You could finally get them right.

• 30:47David Sims?

  Like, what if Disney just was like, just tomorrow, the guy just was like, hey, by the way, we know that looks bad. We're not going to release it. Sorry.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  It is.

• 30:55Griffin Newman?

  Or flip side, what if they said James Cameron is doing a live action Finding Dory?

• 31:01David Sims?

  Oh, that'd be great.

• 31:02Griffin Newman?

  And he's doing it all for real.

• 31:04David Sims?

  Yeah, right. It's all real.

• 31:05Griffin Newman?

  He put the computers down.

• 31:06David Sims?

  He taught a fish how to act. We don't know how he did it.

• 31:09Griffin Newman?

  Yelling.

• 31:09David Sims?

  Yeah, right. He just, he just keeps yelling at this fish. Now she's, now she's good.

• 31:14Griffin Newman?

  Don't you know who I am?

• 31:15David Sims?

  Right.

• 31:26Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 31:26David Sims?

  Yes.

• 31:27Griffin Newman?

  Moooo.

• 31:30David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's cow?

• 31:31Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 31:32David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 31:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 31:39David Sims?

  Okay.

• 31:39Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 31:44David Sims?

  Wow.

• 31:44Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 31:47David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up while you tell the great listeners about the great stuff on MUBI.

• 31:53Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 32:06David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 32:07Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 32:13David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 32:14Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburn, Past and Future Guest.

• 32:17David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, a great friend.

• 32:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 32:22David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 32:28Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 32:29David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 32:32Griffin Newman?

  Friend of the show.

• 32:32David Sims?

  Friend of the show Zach Cherry.

• 32:34Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 32:34David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 32:35Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 32:37David Sims?

  Such a cool movie, one that queer Paul McCann, if you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like it obviously has, it was out in theaters uh this summer and now it's on MUBI.

• 32:47Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays a filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 33:01David Sims?

  At Camp Miasma, yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 33:05Griffin Newman?

  What happens? It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being uh an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 33:17David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 33:30Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 33:35David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 33:41Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 33:41David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 33:42Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 33:49David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 33:50Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 33:58David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. They've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 34:04Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:04David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 34:11Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 34:14David Sims?

  No.

• 34:15Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 34:16David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to lisa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code BLANKCHECK. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com promo code BLANKCHECK for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code BLANKCHECK.

• 35:03Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 35:03David Sims?

  Yes.

• 35:04Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 35:08David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 35:13Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 35:15David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash just in time for the holidays.

• 35:22Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 35:31David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe. The sickest luxury items.

• 35:35Griffin Newman?

  Sick.

• 35:36David Sims?

  Wear to kicks, toys to high tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay? That's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 35:54Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 36:27David Sims?

  Finding Dory. So, did you see this film in theaters, Zach?

• 36:30Speaker 03

  I, I have no specific memory of it, but I'm positive I did. Cause I was all in on Dory. I, I love Dory.

• 36:37Griffin Newman?

  Story rules.

• 36:37David Sims?

  June 2016. Um, I assume you're living in New York. I saw this at the now dead Cineopolis Chelsea.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:45David Sims?

  Or whatever it was called back then. The bow tie Chelsea, the Clearview Chelsea, you know, that theater, which was the UCB movie theater.

• 36:53Speaker 03

  It was the UCB movie theater. I used to go there all the time.

• 36:55David Sims?

  It was great. You could live there. That was one of those places where you're like, no one's kicking me out if I never leave this place.

• 36:59Griffin Newman?

  What was also incredible about it was.

• 37:01David Sims?

  There's like one employee.

• 37:02Griffin Newman?

  It felt like a ghost town. It was like five floors. There was only one employee. There were never many people there. And then they did a really expensive restoration. And it was so nice. And still no one was there, but it stayed open for another four years.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  There was a nice little burger shop underneath it that I liked to go to.

• 37:17David Sims?

  Yes, there was. I liked that place.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  And there was the last remaining Boston market in the United States, directly across the street.

• 37:24David Sims?

  It was across the street, right?

• 37:25Griffin Newman?

  Everything was happening on 23rd between 7th and 8th. I'm just also looking at the domestic box office. The top 10. Rogue One comes out in December. Finding Dory, June. Captain America Civil War was notably a spring release. Secret Life of Pets, I think July. Jungle Book, spring release. Deadpool, February. Zootopia, March or April. Batman versus Superman,

• 37:49Griffin Newman?

  March.

• 37:50Speaker 03

  I can't believe Deadpool didn't make an appearance in Finding Dory.

• 37:53Griffin Newman?

  Suicide Squad, August, Sing, I think, November, December. Like, Dory was so far and away the highest grossing film of the summer. Cause every other film in the top 10, basically saved for Secret Life of Pets, came out spring or fall.

• 38:08David Sims?

  So what was the summer of 2016?

• 38:10Griffin Newman?

  Dory, Dory, I'm saying like-

• 38:11David Sims?

  Dory, Dory, it was nothing else?

• 38:13Griffin Newman?

  Dory ran the table so fucking hard. I mean, let me see, it was Suicide Squad ended it. And I, and I mean-

• 38:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 38:20Griffin Newman?

  Ended it. X-Men Apocalypse, Neighbors 2, The Angry Birds Movie. Uh, I'm sorry, Captain America Civil War was the first week of May.

• 38:30David Sims?

  Okay.

• 38:31Griffin Newman?

  So it was the kickoff. Alice Through the Looking Glass, Ninja Turtles, Out of the Shadows.

• 38:35David Sims?

  Oh, man.

• 38:36Griffin Newman?

  Pop Star, Which Rules But Bombed, Conjuring 2, Now You See Me 2, Warcraft, Central Intelligence, Independence Day Resurgence.

• 38:44David Sims?

  That one's so bad.

• 38:45Griffin Newman?

  Like, this is a rough line. The Legend of Tarzan, the BFG. Like, these are kind of historic, non-starter franchise movies. Lady Ghostbusters, Star Trek Beyond, which is great but bombed.

• 38:59David Sims?

  Or underperformed.

• 39:01Griffin Newman?

  The Final Ice Age, the only one that didn't make 100 million domestic, I believe, Jason Bourne.

• 39:06David Sims?

  That one's bad, too.

• 39:07Griffin Newman?

  And then the summer ends with Suicide Squad and fucking Ben Hur.

• 39:11David Sims?

  Those are also bad.

• 39:12Griffin Newman?

  Right. So Dory was like, so far and away, the queen of the summer.

• 39:16David Sims?

  So where'd you see it, big man?

• 39:19Griffin Newman?

  Uh, that's a good question. I'm pretty sure I saw it at AMC Lincoln Square. I saw it with my friend Scott Crater, who is one of my oldest friends and a regular movie buddy of mine, and I have a very distinct memory of sitting there the first 20 minutes, like, white knuckling the armrest and being like, this is bad. And I have this experience every time I re-watch it.

• 39:39David Sims?

  More invested in the Pixar movies being good. Like, I feel like I was kind of at this age where I was kind of like, I don't really care anymore. If they're bad, which I sort of assume, it's like, whatever.

• 39:48Griffin Newman?

  I was really-

• 39:49David Sims?

  I wanted Incredibles 2 to be good, because I like Brad Bird, but like, generally, I would be kind of like, eh.

• 39:53Griffin Newman?

  I felt invested in the insidification of Pixar. And I was trying to think of an analogy, because it wasn't like it went from being, like, great to being terrible. But it was kind of like the expansion of Shake Shack. Where you're like, this thing felt really special. And how are they maintaining this quality? And how does it feel different? And then it grew and you're like, it's still better than basically everything else. But what are we losing? And I'm worried about it falling further. And I, I think like the first 20 minutes of this movie are pretty aggressively bad and feel a little checklisty. Like, what do we need to do to like calm you down?

• 40:33David Sims?

  I assume, do you mean like post Baby Dory? Cause Baby Dory is just right at the top. And you mean the kind of like, let's reset with like, where do Marlin and Nemo live?

• 40:44Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna bring Mr. Ray back and we're gonna bring the turtles back. Like, it feels like speed running the greatest hits from the first movie.

• 40:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 40:50Griffin Newman?

  With jokes that genuinely feel like alts from the first movie. It's like, is every character forgetting or pretending this didn't already happen?

• 41:00David Sims?

  And this conflict of like, Marlin's like, ugh, Dory, she's like, she's kind of a pain. Just kind of like tough to have around, whatever.

• 41:07Speaker 03

  Now, when you saw it, had you recently watched Finding, like, was Finding Nemo in your regular rotation?

• 41:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  Because I don't think it was for me. And so this time, when I watched them back to back, that stuff did put me off.

• 41:22Griffin Newman?

  It's crazy how much kind of like double B.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was like, oh, we're just, we're just kind of like running through like, hey, there's the turtles. And there's this guy and there's this guy.

• 41:29Griffin Newman?

  It felt like the worst version of what I was fearing this movie would be, which is just like key jangling. Can we just do it again? And will you guys be happy?

• 41:36Speaker 03

  But I think when I saw it, I had probably not seen Finding Nemo since it came out. Like, I wasn't rewatching it. So I think I was just like, hey, my friends are back.

• 41:46Griffin Newman?

  I think everything from when it gets to the Marine X Institute is basically uniformly very good. Like, the second it gets there, it works.

• 41:55David Sims?

  Plot kicks.

• 41:55Griffin Newman?

  But I have rarely had that experience of sitting there and for like 15 to 20 consecutive minutes being like, bad, bad, bad, bad, fuck, I'm spiraling. And then feel the movie just kind of like swerve, pull out a victory and stay good. But then I remember defending it at the time. It did feel like even though it was a big hit.

• 42:17David Sims?

  You're there to defend.

• 42:18Griffin Newman?

  It was immediately greeted with this sort of like, what are they doing here? Kind of thing. Can we, can we zoom out? Cause I know you were asking these questions, Zach, but some of the things going on here.

• 42:28David Sims?

  Okay, sure.

• 42:30Griffin Newman?

  We'll get into the door specific.

• 42:31David Sims?

  You go right ahead. This is all you, baby.

• 42:35Griffin Newman?

  So a thing we're restating in all of these episodes. There was a one movie contract for Pixar to produce Toy Story, which Disney will distribute and retain the rights to the characters forever. That movie is such a hit that Disney swings back around and says, we want to make a five picture deal. You are an autonomous studio. You are producing films for us. We will own those characters in perpetuity. They agree to five original films. They also demand, can you please do Toy Story two? They said, we're a small company. We only have the energy to do one movie. We're trying to scale up to two at a time. So they establish a B team of younger guys to take on Toy Story two, which is meant to be direct to video. Cause that's the return Jafar model. You didn't put animated sequels in theaters. They devalued

• 43:20Griffin Newman?

  the brand. There was this real belief in the sanctity of that theatrical Disney movies need to mean something and the sequels being on video help kind of keep them feeling clean of the legacy of the originals. Toy Story two is not working. Lassiter, Stanton, the A team, when they're done with a bug's life, come on and say, will you let us take this over and fix it? We don't think this is up to our standards. We don't want it being released. And if you let us take it on and push it back, we will make it good enough to put in theaters. They do that. It's a massive hit. It wins best picture musical or comedy at the Golden Globes, an institution whose awards mean a lot. And they go, great. That was our third

• 44:03Griffin Newman?

  film on the contract. And Eisner goes, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. That was not the deal. The deal was five original movies. Toy Story two didn't count. You still owe me three more. This starts the bad blood between Pixar and Disney. They do Monsters Inc.

• 44:19Griffin Newman?

  Finding Nemo, Incredibles, Cars. And by the time Cars is coming out, relationships are beyond freight. And they are self-producing, Ratatouille, Wally, and Up, completely self-financed. And they will just sell them to the highest bidder of whoever they go to. Every studio in town is bidding on them. All of this stuff's super relevant to how this movie comes about. Katzenberg gets pushed out. Iger comes in. Iger's first move is, whatever it takes, get Pixar. He gets them, they commit to releasing those three films, but then he also cracks his knuckles and goes, but guys, can we start talking about sequels? So Disney has now spent like $6 billion to buy Pixar. Stanton has been placed as the VP of creative.

• 45:04Griffin Newman?

  He doesn't want to have to be a businessman, you know, or an administrative guy, but they're basically like, you're the king of story here. You oversee all of this. Lots of hug in John Lasseter, the founder of Pixar Animation at least, is suddenly placed into three positions simultaneously. He is the head of Pixar, he is the head of Disney Feature Animation, and he is the head of Imagineering. So now Lasseter's wearing three hats, three offices, three times as many opportunities to hug people.

• 45:35Speaker 03

  Two more hats than I've ever worn.

• 45:36Griffin Newman?

  It's impressive. His priority starts to become Disney Animation's really bad. I have to fix this.

• 45:43Speaker 03

  And what were they putting out at the time?

• 45:45Griffin Newman?

  So they had been putting out like Chicken Little.

• 45:47Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 45:48Griffin Newman?

  He comes on halfway through production on Meet the Robinsons and tries to sort of course correct that, tries to course correct Bolt. The first one that's sort of like, this worked, he was able to kind of help oversee rebuilding it from the beginning was Tangled.

• 46:03Speaker 03

  Bolt made me cry.

• 46:05Griffin Newman?

  Tangled's a big hit. And then it starts the run of like Tangled, Frozen, Moana, Jotopia, Wreck it Ralph. All these things were saying where suddenly it's like, is Disney the rising studio?

• 46:16David Sims?

  Right. Is Disney better than Pixar these days?

• 46:19Griffin Newman?

  He's putting more of his energy and attention there because they had been the problem place and Pixar seemed to have it all figured out. But the other part of it is, they're saying to Pixar, guys, we just spent a lot of fucking money. And we know that the sequels were a non-starter conversation because of the bad blood over the Toy Story 2 thing for so long, but now there's so much fucking money on the table if we bring any of these characters back. And there's always this kind of polite like, We leave it to you, the storytellers.

• 46:51Griffin Newman?

  We won't do it and we won't force it until you tell us you have an idea. But we'd really like you to try to come up with an idea. And so that energy is like behind them. Toy Story three, they were ready to do. They had wanted to do, and it was being held up by the bad blood. But with that in motion, then they're sort of like, can we revisit the Monsters conversation? Can we revisit the Incredibles conversation? Can we revisit the Dory conversation? I feel like this is where you get to the sort of creative incubation of the idea.

• 47:22David Sims?

  Sure.

• 47:23Griffin Newman?

  When it came out, Stanton was like, no.

• 47:25David Sims?

  Right.

• 47:26Griffin Newman?

  We were not a sequel studio. That's not what we believe.

• 47:28David Sims?

  They're always fucking going on about that. But they're liars.

• 47:31Griffin Newman?

  They weren't for a while.

• 47:33David Sims?

  Well, their third movie was the sequel.

• 47:35Griffin Newman?

  But I just explained this whole thing. I mean, this is all the-

• 47:38David Sims?

  I understand, but you know, they've always had a little bit of sequel.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Toy Stories feel different to me as well. They feel like a whole separate thing.

• 47:45David Sims?

  They do, and that's because, right? Because the third Pixar movie was Toy Story two. Like it does kind of set it apart. Yeah. So Stanton said he was always no sequel, like basically always. And puts it that he says he had to get on board from a VP standpoint, not a director standpoint.

• 48:07Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 48:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:08Griffin Newman?

  It's sort of like- Isn't this good for the company?

• 48:10David Sims?

  Right. Don't we want to keep Pixar afloat?

• 48:13Griffin Newman?

  I mean, this is the classic kind of insinuation thing of you're the most successful movie studio in history. You get bought for like a tremendous amount of money. And immediately they're like, but don't you have to think about what's good for business? And you're like, what they've been doing has been good for business. But they start getting in their ear with this logic of, well, if you make the sequels, that helps pay for the originals.

• 48:35David Sims?

  Now, the script for Finding Nemo two, which was written back when Disney was like,

• 48:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 48:44David Sims?

  Fuck you, we'll just make it. What is it? It's a-

• 48:46Griffin Newman?

  They started a company called Circle Seven.

• 48:48David Sims?

  Circle Seven. And it's like, we will make Toy Story three, Monsters Inc. two, Lost in Scaredice.

• 48:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 48:54David Sims?

  Love to know more. And Finding Nemo 2, we're gonna make them cheaper than Pixar makes them.

• 48:59Griffin Newman?

  This was a Katzenberg negotiation move. He said, they're so protective of their legacy that I will develop my own animation studio to the side.

• 49:07David Sims?

  To sequelize.

• 49:08Griffin Newman?

  And make them. And the only way they can stop me is if they decide to make them themselves. And this created so much bad blood, but obviously the second Iger takes over, he says, shut them fucking down.

• 49:19David Sims?

  But I want to tell you about this script, which was written by Laurie Craig, the writer of Ella Enchanted.

• 49:24Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 49:24David Sims?

  Now, is everyone sitting down?

• 49:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:27David Sims?

  Okay. Marlin's lost.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  Hold on.

• 49:33Speaker 03

  How old is he?

• 49:37Griffin Newman?

  The hackery of them not even landing on Dory should get lost first.

• 49:42David Sims?

  Truly, I mean, it is so funny that like, it's just like, okay, Nemo and Marlin are living together. They're feeling that everything's good. Huh, why don't we switch it up? Marlin's lost. It's called Finding Marlin. Basically, Nemo's gonna find Marlin. Dory gets her memory back by hitting her head. Nemo is given a long lost brother?

• 50:03Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 50:04David Sims?

  I guess so. There can be some sort of tension of like, oh, you're my brother.

• 50:08Griffin Newman?

  All of these Circle 7 movies sounded horrendous.

• 50:11David Sims?

  There's some dolphins, some polar bears.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Sounds good.

• 50:17David Sims?

  Zach?

• 50:18Speaker 03

  My guess is they'd be voiced by, you know, somebody with quite a, quite an accent.

• 50:26Speaker 03

  You know?

• 50:26David Sims?

  Absolutely. It is funny how this time they're like, the fucking nature preserves in California. We're not doing Australia again.

• 50:34David Sims?

  There's a magical tunnel that whips you all the way down to California.

• 50:38Griffin Newman?

  It's a different sitcom.

• 50:40David Sims?

  So yes, as you say, Iger comes aboard and immediately is like, no more of this Circle 7 nonsense. Like, I'm shutting all of that down.

• 50:50Griffin Newman?

  And this is part of Iger's great strategy, is he comes in, shuts them down, says to Steve Jobs, you name your price. I'm not negotiating here with you. I want to make you guys feel so protected that I'm doing everything I can. To respect the sanctity of your characters. I'm not going to push you to do these things. I'm going to shut down any crass exploitation. I'm going to overpay you, but can you please try to organically come up with sequel ideas that you like?

• 51:20David Sims?

  And the way Andrew Stanton puts it, and I think we mentioned this on a prior episode is, you know, when the Finding Nemo 3D re-release comes out in 2010, which he obviously works on to

• 51:30Griffin Newman?

  Yes, to oversee.

• 51:31David Sims?

  Betty, he's watching it. And yes, he is kind of like, I mean, Dory basically is lost when the movie begins. I mean, they do find her being like, where are my family?

• 51:40Griffin Newman?

  Looking for my family, at least I think I was. He's like, fuck, I did put it in there.

• 51:44David Sims?

  So he's like, I do stop, you know, I couldn't stop thinking about it, I will admit. Now, could he also not stop thinking about big bucks? I don't know, like, you know, dollar signs?

• 51:55Griffin Newman?

  The other thing is, he's now sort of got a foot outside of Pixar, focusing on John Carter and wanting to make this John Carter sized leap to live action. So what he says is, hey, I got a good idea.

• 52:09Speaker 03

  Because he jumps big.

• 52:10David Sims?

  He jumps so far.

• 52:12Griffin Newman?

  He jumps so big, so far, so high.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  That guy can really hop.

• 52:16Griffin Newman?

  On mark.

• 52:18David Sims?

  This guy hops. That's what they should

• 52:20Griffin Newman?

  Call that movie Hoppers.

• 52:22David Sims?

  Exactly. Did you see Hoppers?

• 52:23Speaker 03

  I did. I liked Hoppers.

• 52:25David Sims?

  Hoppers, very enjoy it.

• 52:25Griffin Newman?

  Moynihan fucking rule. Moynihan, Moynihan, right now, kind of pole position best voice performance of the year.

• 52:30David Sims?

  Moynihan, very good in Hoppers.

• 52:32Speaker 03

  The Dory of, uh,

• 52:33Griffin Newman?

  He is. King George, King George having a big year at the box office.

• 52:37David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:37Griffin Newman?

  That, but that's his biggest hit he's had so far.

• 52:39David Sims?

  So far.

• 52:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:41David Sims?

  Plenty of months left.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  King George.

• 52:43Griffin Newman?

  King George.

• 52:44Speaker 03

  Hamilton.

• 52:45Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 52:46David Sims?

  That's if they do that, sure.

• 52:48Griffin Newman?

  Still on Broadway, still bringing in Buffalo Box Office.

• 52:50David Sims?

  Yeah, who's playing King George right now on Broadway?

• 52:52Griffin Newman?

  Interesting. I'm seeing it's King George from Hoppers.

• 52:57Griffin Newman?

  They got the beaver. They render him in real time. Um, originally Stanton's like, well, I'm too busy on the John Carter thing and John Carter is obviously going to be a trilogy that I have mapped out and each of these movies is going to take two to three years. But here's an idea I like for Finding Dory and I bless the development of this as a script.

• 53:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 53:19Griffin Newman?

  It doesn't originate with him. It's a hired writer first.

• 53:22David Sims?

  Also, of course, then John Carter bombs.

• 53:25Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 53:26David Sims?

  And he says he went into kind of a lost weekend to purge himself.

• 53:29Griffin Newman?

  Only one weekend?

• 53:30David Sims?

  Yeah, he might need a fucking.

• 53:31Speaker 03

  That's pretty good.

• 53:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  It takes me about a week and a half to recover from a bad improv show.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  And this guy had a historic bomb and he was like, just give me 48. That's impressive.

• 53:48David Sims?

  It is.

• 53:50David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, it is. Yeah. To make a movie like John Carter where people are like, can we, can you get that Guinness Book of World Records off the shelf and like, is this the biggest one yet? Like, are we going like, you know?

• 54:00Griffin Newman?

  He also, he did an interview that just came out at the time we're recording. Uh, or it was part of a larger entertainment weekly piece about Toy Story 5. And he's, he had, you know, he's a very self deprecating guy.

• 54:10David Sims?

  Sure.

• 54:11Griffin Newman?

  But he had a joke about like, if you know me by name, I'm concerned.

• 54:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:17Griffin Newman?

  Like, I understand, like Pixar as a name brand is a known thing, but like only, you know, dang ass freaks know Andrew Stanton by name. Is this podcast maybe fucking up that effort? Possibly. But I think there must be something kind of weird to having a failure that big that's also kind of anonymized. Like, there's not even the personal sort of like, look at how hard a fucking Francis Ford Coppola fell on his face with Megalopolis and it's reckoned with within the like, the story of a man's career. It's just everyone kind of being like, the fuck is this shit?

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. John Carter was the failure, not him.

• 54:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  At least in terms of the public.

• 54:56Griffin Newman?

  Like, I didn't know who, I had no idea he directed that.

• 54:59David Sims?

  No, you knew simply that, you know, Tim Riggins went to Mars and it didn't work out for him.

• 55:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 55:04David Sims?

  And he hopped.

• 55:05Griffin Newman?

  And again, I did like that movie.

• 55:06David Sims?

  It's it's it's

• 55:07Griffin Newman?

  It's got its terms.

• 55:08David Sims?

  It's got its terms. So Bob Weiger calls Stanton on the phone, apparently gives him a quote about from Teddy Roosevelt about being the lonely man in the ring that has the guts to actually do it versus talking about doing it. I don't know. He kind of peeps him up. Stanton works on Zootopia. His college roommate is Rich Moore, who's the director of Zootopia. So he like helps out with that.

• 55:26Griffin Newman?

  He's got a creative consultant. Cause that's the other thing was at this time, they were like Pixar's got it figured out so much that should the Pixar brain trust.

• 55:34David Sims?

  They're kind of like.

• 55:34Griffin Newman?

  Weigh in on everything. Can they give notes on Tron Legacy? And yeah.

• 55:38David Sims?

  Right. And then he goes to lots of Huggin' Lasseter and he says like, I think I have a story for Finding Nemo 2. Bitches that. They write up a treatment and then he's like, all right, I'm gonna call Ellen. Cause I guess it's a different thing to call Ellen now.

• 55:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 55:53David Sims?

  She's busy.

• 55:55Griffin Newman?

  Now Ellen had for years maintain this running bit of why aren't they calling me to make a sequel? She would publicly do this. You know, Hanks would be on to promote Toy Story 3 and she'd be like, must be nice.

• 56:08David Sims?

  Right. Must be nice. I don't have any money at all.

• 56:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I'm only selling hundreds of millions of dollars of throw pillows a year.

• 56:16David Sims?

  JJ found a very 2013 sentence too, if you want to hear it. Dory is Disney's most liked character on Facebook, had 24 million likes. People just were like, I want to like.

• 56:29Griffin Newman?

  Thumbs up.

• 56:29David Sims?

  Give a thumbs up to the character Dory.

• 56:32Griffin Newman?

  Right. And that's as important as where I went to college. Can you not? It has to be one of the five things people see about me immediately.

• 56:40David Sims?

  Ellen's statement on the announcement, I have waited for this day for a long, long, long, long, long, long time. I'm not mad it took this long. I know the big people at Pixar are busy creating Toy Story 16, but the time they took was worth it. Script's fantastic. Yeah.

• 56:54Griffin Newman?

  You also just know, and I don't know if it's ever been reported, but I imagine she got much more love from this.

• 56:59David Sims?

  Are you kidding? What? Ellen, I thought that she kind of just did everything for love of the game. I, I gotta stop bragging on Ellen.

• 57:05Griffin Newman?

  Ellen has become an incredibly savvy business person at this point in time and, and Pixar and Disney notoriously.

• 57:13Griffin Newman?

  You know, pay in exposure the first time.

• 57:16David Sims?

  Right, right. And then the second time and the residuals.

• 57:20Griffin Newman?

  That's the big thing.

• 57:20David Sims?

  Right.

• 57:21Griffin Newman?

  I think I've shared this anecdote before, but I, I met, uh, or I've met her a couple of times, but Kristen Schaal said, uh, she did Toy Story three. They pay you what is scale, the lowest.

• 57:33David Sims?

  Fucking seventeenth character in that movie.

• 57:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Uh, and it's like, there is a scale numbered, despite you being in a Pixar movie, it's the lowest amount they could pay you to be in an animated feature film. And she was like, I bought a house with the first year of residuals, theme park, video games, whatever, you know?

• 57:51David Sims?

  Hold on, I need to talk to some people.

• 57:54Griffin Newman?

  But then if, if you're, if there's a sequel and you're the central character.

• 58:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 58:00Griffin Newman?

  Or you're the breakout character, suddenly you're holding a lot of leverage.

• 58:03David Sims?

  Except maybe not so much anymore, right? With, cause Inside Out two, didn't they not?

• 58:08Griffin Newman?

  It was a weird thing. I mean, but also they paid, uh, I, I think Amy Poehler got $10 million? And then they were like, Bill Hader, here's a sandwich.

• 58:17David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, interesting. So, uh, the film is, uh, co-written by Victoria Strauss, really had no credits. She'd worked on an ABC TV show called October Road, but they wanted a female screenwriter.

• 58:30Griffin Newman?

  It is a fascinating.

• 58:31David Sims?

  She had a spec script they liked.

• 58:32Griffin Newman?

  Pixar thing I was gonna say, where a lot of the writers, once, you know, they ramp up production, right? And this was also a big part of, I think, them conceding to the sequel push was, it's been a big effort to get to a steadiness to be able to put out one film every year. Wouldn't it be great if we could do two a year? And they were like, if it's two a year and the staff is doubling and all of this, then maybe if it helps if every other film is a sequel or a safer bet. But it also means they have to start reaching outside of their like core brain trust and building a bigger talent pool. And so often these writers you see who end up being the co-writers with whoever the director

• 59:16Griffin Newman?

  is or the Pixar person is on these movies, you're like, how'd they get this job? And it's like, they were obsessively reading spec scripts. They were like checking the blacklist. They were going to plays. They were seeing independent films at Sundance. It's this fascinating thing, and I think Stanton was kind of important in sort of spearheading this of, let's not look at animation writers. Let's just look and see good writing and find young people. Because also, it's a multi-year process. It's like, if you sign on to a Pixar movie, you're moving to like Emeryville for three or four years to keep doing iterative work on it. So it's better to get someone who's ready to like be an employee rather than just take on a project. Ben?

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  Dory on Facebook.

• 1:00:02Griffin Newman?

  Currently?

• 1:00:02Speaker 04

  Currently. 20 mil.

• 1:00:04Griffin Newman?

  Huge.

• 1:00:04David Sims?

  She's lost weight.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Wait, it went down?

• 1:00:06David Sims?

  Went down.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  Well, I deleted my account, so that's one.

• 1:00:09David Sims?

  That is maybe a sign of Facebook's.

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11David Sims?

  Kind of.

• 1:00:12Griffin Newman?

  It was, was it 40 or 50 before?

• 1:00:14David Sims?

  24.

• 1:00:15Griffin Newman?

  Wait, what is it now?

• 1:00:16David Sims?

  20.

• 1:00:16Speaker 04

  20 mil.

• 1:00:16David Sims?

  Lower.

• 1:00:17Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, but surely lost four?

• 1:00:20David Sims?

  Losing seems bad to me.

• 1:00:22Griffin Newman?

  I just think with the general Facebook.

• 1:00:24David Sims?

  I guess you're right.

• 1:00:26Speaker 04

  Also, some weird follows.

• 1:00:28David Sims?

  Oh, yeah? Who we got?

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  Dory's.

• 1:00:29David Sims?

  Oh, Dory. Oh, yeah. Dory's been liking some kind of interesting pictures on the internet.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  Dory's a huge Huberman gal.

• 1:00:38David Sims?

  Um, so the big issue Strauss found is it's tough to write a main character who can't remember things and has short-term memory loss. She pretty quickly comes up with Hank because she's like, she needs a foil and she needs someone who can move her places.

• 1:00:53Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 1:00:53David Sims?

  Hence, octopus.

• 1:00:54Griffin Newman?

  The smartest thing this movie does is like, how without cheating, do we?

• 1:01:02David Sims?

  Like have someone who's her memory and her mobile kind of.

• 1:01:05Griffin Newman?

  Can we give these characters a little more latitude so it's not just a complete retread of the first movie of they're in the ocean and they gotta swim really far?

• 1:01:12David Sims?

  Yeah, and like Hank has a little Marlin DNA in that he's like gruff and not warm. But like, it's a different enough, I would say, because he's not anxious. He's just kind of like cynical or over it.

• 1:01:23Griffin Newman?

  It's an interesting kind of combination of Gil and Marlin from the first one. But it feels like he's a little more stir crazy.

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  Wait, who is Gil?

• 1:01:30Griffin Newman?

  Gil is the Defoe. Oh, yes.

• 1:01:33David Sims?

  The first one.

• 1:01:33Griffin Newman?

  Cause he's got a little bit of the like, you know, I guess he's also a little kind of one flew over the cuckoo's nest.

• 1:01:39David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:01:40Griffin Newman?

  I just gotta get out of here.

• 1:01:41David Sims?

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:01:43Speaker 03

  He just wants to go live in peace.

• 1:01:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:01:45David Sims?

  I got, we, we see him briefly in this movie, right? Like they're all credited.

• 1:01:50Griffin Newman?

  Oh, they're, they're the end credits.

• 1:01:52David Sims?

  Credits.

• 1:01:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they're still in the bags.

• 1:01:54David Sims?

  Right. They initially did want the parents to also have short-term memory loss to complete the joke of, it runs in my family, at least I think it does.

• 1:02:02Griffin Newman?

  When you were watching, when you walked into the studio today, I was, I had the Blu-ray.

• 1:02:07David Sims?

  You were watching deleted, quote unquote, deleted.

• 1:02:09Griffin Newman?

  It has 50 minutes of deleted scenes, which is quite a lot. And even when movies cut that much material, they rarely make it public. And I would say of the 50, 20 minutes were four different strikes at the opening. And they all have stand intros where he's explaining the iterative process of what kept changing. And you do realize like they backed themselves into a couple of corners here. They're like, first of all, we want to make the Dory movie. But how do you give Dory the character agency to go out on her own journey and grow and change and learn if she can't fucking remember anything? How does she do things of her own volition? So there's all this shit that you see them try where they're like, there's a muscle memory

• 1:02:54Griffin Newman?

  thing where her fins start like she's, she's sleep swimming. In her sleep, she starts swimming directions and then they lose her, but she doesn't know what's driving her there. It's the muscle memory, not a short-term memory. And then he's like, but then the first 30 minutes of the movie, she's not making any choices. It's like, she's like fucking, you know, Weekend at Bernie's too.

• 1:03:12David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:03:13Griffin Newman?

  And then there are multiple stabs at, well, the reason she got lost is because her parents also have short-term memory. So that helps why they haven't found her, but then also like. Every scene and they have like scenes, some of these are animated, some of them are roughly animated, some of them are just storyboarded. Most of them have the real voice actors and you're hearing Eugene Levy and Diane Keaton do the short-term thing, which is incredibly funny.

• 1:03:36David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:03:36Griffin Newman?

  But then you're also just like, all of these scenes get caught in a cul-de-sac.

• 1:03:40David Sims?

  Yes. Stanton said essentially like, they just, they realized it would make everyone crazy.

• 1:03:44Griffin Newman?

  You cannot have any emotional catharsis.

• 1:03:46David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  When I watched the, when I watched Finding Nemo, I was operating under the assumption that her entire species had this, I thought it was like a goldfish thing.

• 1:03:55Griffin Newman?

  That was their starting point.

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah. And so then I was, I had forgotten that, oh no, this is just Dory. Like Dory just has this, this issue.

• 1:04:04David Sims?

  So they're all, they also, they ran into some complaints over the fact that it is set at a, you know, marine park, like a preserve.

• 1:04:14Griffin Newman?

  Blackfish.

• 1:04:15David Sims?

  Right. And so they consciously were like, all of the fish characters will be allowed to leave if they want in our story, because we don't want to suggest that like they belong there or have to be there or anything like that.

• 1:04:27Griffin Newman?

  Pixar is usually like pretty secretive about their movies until the last possible moment. They have to volunteer information because their brand is so strong.

• 1:04:34David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:04:35Griffin Newman?

  And that was a case where in my memory, like

• 1:04:37David Sims?

  They, they kind of came out.

• 1:04:38Griffin Newman?

  Before release were like, we are making changes to our story. They like preempted a potential controversy.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  They added that third R of release.

• 1:04:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49David Sims?

  Right. Right. Exactly. Um, so you know, like

• 1:04:53Griffin Newman?

  I, I think

• 1:04:54David Sims?

  Those are the big things they kind of come across.

• 1:04:56Griffin Newman?

  Story present because if it had been to, it, it could have run the risk of just being a bigger version of the fish tank in the dentist's office. It helps that the problem isn't there being kept here as much as it is like this is just an entirely different kind of space. And, and I think what they do smartly, and it gets back to, I was saying in the Nemo episode that Nemo is weirdly feels very Indiana Jones coded in the way he constructs the sequences of what is the challenge and how do they get out of this? It does feel like the biggest gift they gave themselves in this film is just to be like, what if there is environment that is hospitable to fish, but also is largely above ground,

• 1:05:41Griffin Newman?

  surrounded by people, tanks are separated, and how do you cross these physical divides? Nemo and Marlin don't have to be on the opposite side of the ocean from Dory, but if they're in a gift shop and she's in a tank, it's actually a harder puzzle to solve. Yeah. Which keeps it from feeling like just a copy of the first movie.

• 1:06:02David Sims?

  There was a lot more destiny in Bailey. They say both those characters are great. The whale shark and the blue whale.

• 1:06:07Griffin Newman?

  Bailey's my favorite character in the movie.

• 1:06:09David Sims?

  They just kind of like had to cut stuff, but like that they all had like, you know, tons of material because they were fun to write. Uh, there's an entire storyline where Marlin, Marlin and Nemo gets separated from Dory early when the squid chases them. And then they go into the tank gang and they meet, you know, like Gil and all those guys. And it was funny, but they just sort of like kept being like, it is a Dory movie. This is just distracting from that. So they don't use that.

• 1:06:37Griffin Newman?

  It is the thing, especially after watching all these like failed alternate openings and everything you're saying. I, I've come to peace with the first 20 minutes that also just feel like they never totally cracked it, but they were like, you know what? We just have to get there. The movie doesn't really start until she's at the marine institute.

• 1:06:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:06:54Griffin Newman?

  They should be there with her, you know?

• 1:06:57David Sims?

  At the start.

• 1:06:58Griffin Newman?

  Right. And can we just kind of like jangle some keys for the first 15 or 20 minutes?

• 1:07:02David Sims?

  Are we gonna have to ban that phrase? We're using it too much.

• 1:07:04Griffin Newman?

  We're using it too much.

• 1:07:05David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:06Griffin Newman?

  It's become a totemic phrase.

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  You're jangling keys with it, sort of.

• 1:07:10Griffin Newman?

  I kind of am.

• 1:07:13David Sims?

  For casting though, they would be like, huh, what about Ty Burrell? Google Ellen DeGeneres, Ty Burrell. She's interviewed him like five times. They could just listen to them talking.

• 1:07:22Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:07:22David Sims?

  Eugene Levy?

• 1:07:23Griffin Newman?

  Oh, that's smart.

• 1:07:24David Sims?

  Diane Keaton? They can listen to that.

• 1:07:26Griffin Newman?

  Right. Cause Pixar will famously, now I feel like they do more of a traditional casting process, but they would. Locate an actor and then do a test animation to their dialogue from something else.

• 1:07:39David Sims?

  Diane.

• 1:07:40Griffin Newman?

  Be like, how does it look?

• 1:07:41David Sims?

  Totally.

• 1:07:41Griffin Newman?

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:07:42David Sims?

  Diane Keaton had never done animation before, ever.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  When was Modern Family? Did that, had that already started?

• 1:07:49David Sims?

  Oh, eight or oh nine?

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:50David Sims?

  Yeah. Right. When does that, or maybe 2010?

• 1:07:52Griffin Newman?

  We talked about this in It's Funny and John Carter that you're like,

• 1:07:55David Sims?

  Oh, nine.

• 1:07:56Griffin Newman?

  You can tell which TV show Stanton was watching when he cast that.

• 1:08:00David Sims?

  Do you like Modern? Were you ever on Modern Family?

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:08:02David Sims?

  For 11 years.

• 1:08:03Speaker 03

  And I, you know, I honestly never watched it, but I, what, you know, when Ty Brel popped up and Ed O'Neill.

• 1:08:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  I was like, oh, this is very much, okay, this was dominating this TV.

• 1:08:14Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, He was watching Always Sunny.

• 1:08:16David Sims?

  And they were reliable. They were, yeah, right.

• 1:08:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, and honestly, Dory, Marlon and Nemo are a bit of a Modern Family themselves.

• 1:08:23David Sims?

  That's their found family.

• 1:08:24Speaker 03

  Sort of a nice, this, this.

• 1:08:26Griffin Newman?

  Wink at that. You got two people from The Wire.

• 1:08:29David Sims?

  You got Idris Elba and.

• 1:08:30Griffin Newman?

  Dominic West is the other.

• 1:08:33David Sims?

  Pretty funny. Um, did you ever watch Modern Family?

• 1:08:37Speaker 03

  I never did.

• 1:08:37David Sims?

  Like, you've never seen Modern Family?

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  I've seen a few episodes here and there, but I never like committed to it.

• 1:08:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes, same.

• 1:08:43David Sims?

  Um, I watched that for like two seasons before I was kind of like, I think I get it.

• 1:08:47Griffin Newman?

  It is funny that in my memory, like you thinking this movie came out like a year after Finding Nemo. I'm like, oh, right. This was like right after Modern Family popped. And this is one of the first kind of like post-modern family glow sort of jobs for the cast reaching out. And I'm like, oh, this is closer to the end of that show than it was the beginning. It had been on the air for seven years. It would be off the air.

• 1:09:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:09:07Griffin Newman?

  Four years later.

• 1:09:09David Sims?

  Alexander Gould, the voice of Nemo in Finding Nemo.

• 1:09:11Griffin Newman?

  Was a grown up.

• 1:09:12David Sims?

  Was a grown up. He remembers the moment because he would do the voice for the toys.

• 1:09:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16David Sims?

  Like the moment, like a couple of years later where they were like, you, you can't do it. Your voice is getting too deep.

• 1:09:21Griffin Newman?

  That must.

• 1:09:22David Sims?

  What she said was devastating. He was replaced by.

• 1:09:25Griffin Newman?

  That, that fucking Kristen Schaal.

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  I know. I heard a story about someone getting a house recently.

• 1:09:30Griffin Newman?

  But to just be told like, there's a ticking clock.

• 1:09:33David Sims?

  Yeah. Sorry, buddy. You don't sound like Nemo no more.

• 1:09:35Griffin Newman?

  We will always need someone to voice Nemo. It is not going to be you.

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  Uh, once they catch on to my pitch for old Marlin.

• 1:09:45Speaker 03

  He'll be back in business.

• 1:09:46Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:09:47David Sims?

  Is that kind of like a, like a sort of Logan-esque?

• 1:09:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50David Sims?

  Sort of like a sequel. Right. Okay.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  Marlin, honestly, that would be perfect because Marlin, if he, he, he is so brutal at times in these movies. If he starts to lose it, so even his amount of politeness is gone, you could have some real savage Marlin moment.

• 1:10:07Griffin Newman?

  I'll say this.

• 1:10:08David Sims?

  Marlin just cutting loose. Yeah.

• 1:10:09Griffin Newman?

  Brooks also sounds a lot older in this one.

• 1:10:12David Sims?

  He does.

• 1:10:12Griffin Newman?

  And you're like.

• 1:10:13David Sims?

  He has aged.

• 1:10:14Griffin Newman?

  He's still funny in this, but he does feel harder edged in this, just from the nature of him sounding more like a grumpy old man than a nebbishy guy.

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they, they really, like, when he tells Dory, go sit over there and forget that's the best, that's what you're best at. That's like one of the most brutal.

• 1:10:32Griffin Newman?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:10:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Griffin Newman?

  And this is also post-drive Brooks.

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:10:37David Sims?

  Sigourney Weaver, they just thought that was funny.

• 1:10:39Griffin Newman?

  And it is.

• 1:10:40David Sims?

  She's the voice of the blue planet in America, the American like version of Blue Planet.

• 1:10:45Griffin Newman?

  And she's also the voice of the ship in Wally, obviously.

• 1:10:47David Sims?

  She's the voice that, he actually doesn't mention that, but yeah, that's true.

• 1:10:50Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna mention that.

• 1:10:51David Sims?

  Yeah, fair. Yeah. She's the voice of the planetarium at the Academy of Sciences in San Francisco.

• 1:10:56Griffin Newman?

  Totally one of those people.

• 1:10:57David Sims?

  So he was just like, she could just play herself.

• 1:11:00Speaker 03

  We now know.

• 1:11:00David Sims?

  They didn't ask her until near the end.

• 1:11:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:04David Sims?

  They just had a scratch voice and they were like, I hope she says yes. And she did.

• 1:11:07Griffin Newman?

  I, I also just think every time they do the joke.

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  Wanted a house.

• 1:11:10Griffin Newman?

  She probably wanted a house.

• 1:11:11David Sims?

  She was actually weirdly without one. She had never found one.

• 1:11:15Griffin Newman?

  She was living in a box.

• 1:11:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:17Griffin Newman?

  Every time they do the joke of someone invoking Sigourney Weaver by her full name, it gets me.

• 1:11:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was fun.

• 1:11:23David Sims?

  Ed O'Neill, there's an incredibly long quote that JJ put in. He realizes this quote is too long. So I'm going to try and just, he was like, this is newsletter fodder, but I'm just going to try and tell you that I'm going to boil this down. He gets a call. He wanted to do Finding, you know, he gets his agents like Finding You. He's like, I've never seen animation. They're just cartoons. It's not my thing, but my kids like it, whatever. He is in Midwreck it Ralph. He's Mr. Litwack.

• 1:11:45Griffin Newman?

  He is.

• 1:11:45David Sims?

  He's the guy who.

• 1:11:46Griffin Newman?

  The arcade.

• 1:11:47David Sims?

  And so he assumes they're like, look, you're playing an octopus called Hank. You're being paid by the session. And he assumes like, great. Is it like Mr. Litwack? Like I did that in like one day, right? He shows up and he's like, it was like really intense. Like the work is grueling. The character is going through a lot of like, you know, motion and stuff. So it's like a lot of like, watch out and you know, yelling and stuff. And after three hours, he was like, all right. And they were like, you're gonna have to come back. You know, like, we're not like,

• 1:12:16Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna keep coming back.

• 1:12:17David Sims?

  And then after a while, he's like, is this like not a cameo? And they're like, no, this is like one of the lead roles.

• 1:12:23Griffin Newman?

  That's so funny. He is so good in this. They have said,

• 1:12:26David Sims?

  And he didn't know Typerell was in it. Like, like, it's like, his cast, they never talk about it. And then they watch a pre, a preview. And he's like, what's the octopus doing? And they're like, oh, he's a mimic octopus. He can like, you know, blend with things. He's like, oh, that's cool. I didn't know that either, you know?

• 1:12:43David Sims?

  So that I feel like can be the experience of being in one of these movies. If you are not plugged into the Pixar world, but are famous.

• 1:12:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:12:50David Sims?

  And you get the call of like, hey, offer. You know, we don't have to audition you. You're, you want to be this octopus? And you're just like, sure. You don't know what you're in for. It's just funny.

• 1:12:59Griffin Newman?

  It's also because it is such an iterative, evolving story process. You like do choose your own adventure versions of the movie. You know, you go in and you do like 15 pages. And then a year later, they call you and show you something new. And you're like, how does that track? And they're like, well, that previous thing is gone. We've made him this and we took this out. They've said it was the most difficult character they ever had to animate, that it was

• 1:13:23David Sims?

  I mean, that makes sense.

• 1:13:24Griffin Newman?

  A nightmare.

• 1:13:25David Sims?

  It's so crazy.

• 1:13:26Griffin Newman?

  It feels like, you know, we, we've talked about how Stanton likes these kind of self imposed animation challenges. A big thing he said for the first movie, Zach, is that he was like, I don't want to anthropomorphize the fish. I don't want to give them movements that are like a human. Let's just push 10% beyond what a fish could do, but try to get everything we can out of just fins and face and whatever. And it feels like, well, now you have a character who's hypermobile. And instead of there being a limitation, it's the challenge of do as much with him as possible. And the choice to make him just like constantly in Mission Impossible mode is really good. Also, he has no mouth, which is such, that's like a Stanton thing of like, oh, their mouth

• 1:14:11Griffin Newman?

  is at the bottom. Anyone else would be like, well, you can't have a character without a mouth. We gotta cheat. And you can tell that he's like, I kinda like the idea of just the eyes. And it's like the eyes and then sort of like a nose bump. But it's basically, it's, it's like Gromit.

• 1:14:29David Sims?

  Love Gromit too.

• 1:14:30Griffin Newman?

  We all love Gromit. He's a great movie star.

• 1:14:32David Sims?

  Angus McLean, uh, who goes on to direct, uh, Wally. I mean, sorry.

• 1:14:36Griffin Newman?

  Lightyear, unfortunately. Yeah.

• 1:14:38David Sims?

  Is the co-director. So, you know, he's doing a lot of work. The film does, you know, I don't care. The film does have a lesbian couple, as we know.

• 1:14:47Griffin Newman?

  This was the original.

• 1:14:48David Sims?

  Disgusting.

• 1:14:49Griffin Newman?

  Lightyear kiss.

• 1:14:50David Sims?

  We see two women pushing a stroller together for two seconds.

• 1:14:53Griffin Newman?

  Truly.

• 1:14:53David Sims?

  And even. Trump was elected months later. Obviously, all of that was sorted out.

• 1:14:56Griffin Newman?

  Foxers did genuinely get very upset about this and it was the most annoying shit in the world. But they were kind of a conservative couple because they were horrified by the octopus baby. They were.

• 1:15:04David Sims?

  That is true. They can't accept that someone might have an octopus for a baby.

• 1:15:07Griffin Newman?

  They're sort of like, ugh. It's funny though.

• 1:15:10David Sims?

  Right. You know what? Actually, we've all got our, you know, our kind of boundaries and we have to confront them sometimes. Yeah.

• 1:15:16Griffin Newman?

  It is funny how much that was blown up. It also is funny to re-watch it and be like, I mean, I read it as two moms, but also.

• 1:15:23David Sims?

  One of them's got like a short haircut or whatever. I get what they're going for.

• 1:15:27Griffin Newman?

  A lot of context clues. You could be like, these are two moms who brought their kids.

• 1:15:30David Sims?

  I mean.

• 1:15:30Griffin Newman?

  Out separately.

• 1:15:31David Sims?

  Obviously, it is no big deal.

• 1:15:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:34David Sims?

  It would only have been annoying if they had done the Beauty and the Beast thing of like, we promise you gay representation is in this movie. And then that's what it is. Or the Avengers thing. What do you, what do you mean? The guy says something and Captain America nods.

• 1:15:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:47David Sims?

  He's like, mhm.

• 1:15:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm so sad that my, uh, dead gay boyfriend is dead, but still gay. And I'm still gay, even though he's dead.

• 1:15:57Griffin Newman?

  One of the funniest things in the world is for a movie like that to pat itself on the back for finally presenting a gay character and the director to cast himself as the gay character. A straight man and be like, pretty impressive, huh?

• 1:16:20Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:16:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:21Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary, Capturing Bigfoot.

• 1:16:26David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:27Griffin Newman?

  On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:16:37David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:16:39Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:17:02David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:17:13Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:17:22David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:17:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:17:25David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds, but this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:17:32Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:17:46David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:17:48Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:17:51David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:18:06Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:18:23Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 1:18:24David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:18:25Griffin Newman?

  People cut the cord. Means the death of the repeat. The rerun. But where, where do repeats still exist? In your closet.

• 1:18:33David Sims?

  Ah, the sweater that goes with everything, Griffin. The tea you somehow always reach for first.

• 1:18:38Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, we know the feeling.

• 1:18:40David Sims?

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does best.

• 1:18:43Griffin Newman?

  Quince.

• 1:18:44David Sims?

  This is true for me. I will say, I go to Quince.

• 1:18:46Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:46David Sims?

  I buy a thing like a polo shirt, a sweater, whatever. And I'm like, oh, I like that. Guess I'll get a bunch more. Cause now that's what I'm gonna put on.

• 1:18:55Griffin Newman?

  Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day.

• 1:19:09David Sims?

  Love it. They got those 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Those start at just $60.

• 1:19:14Griffin Newman?

  I love those.

• 1:19:14David Sims?

  Giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand. Without that luxury price tag and, look, it's starting to get chillier. You're gonna need layers, right? How about you just do Quince for every layer, huh?

• 1:19:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:28David Sims?

  Jacket, sweater, shirt.

• 1:19:29Griffin Newman?

  David, you know what I love?

• 1:19:30David Sims?

  What?

• 1:19:31Griffin Newman?

  The ultimate commuter pants.

• 1:19:32David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:19:33Griffin Newman?

  Cause I'm commuting constantly.

• 1:19:35David Sims?

  Beep beep.

• 1:19:36Griffin Newman?

  Yep, that's me. David, I like these. They're just clean. They're comfortable. They got the right amount of pockets.

• 1:19:42David Sims?

  Wow. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers. Or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know. It was Blank Check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:20:08Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:20:09David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:20:09Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many- More that is an all star cast.

• 1:20:30David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula is already hunting her.

• 1:20:50Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:21:06David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation. Written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible, Listen to the Darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 1:21:42David Sims?

  The film begins with this. So I want to talk about it.

• 1:21:46Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 1:21:47David Sims?

  This feels like something designed in a lab.

• 1:21:50Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 1:21:50David Sims?

  To make money and make people cry.

• 1:21:52Griffin Newman?

  This is another fascinating thing about the alternate openings, right?

• 1:21:57David Sims?

  Where they're like, her eyes are the same size and everything else is tiny.

• 1:22:00Griffin Newman?

  The alternate openings, some of them I thought worked better than the actual opening of the movie. But the first half of them are sort of, there's one I really like where you feel like, are we just watching Finding Nemo again? It's Marlin running into Dory in their first conversation, and then they run into the sharks. And it's a little bit of bridge, but they're literally reusing the same animation. And then Marlin starts beating the shit out of the sharks.

• 1:22:29Griffin Newman?

  And you realize it is, this is how Marlin tells the story to everyone now.

• 1:22:33David Sims?

  That is kind of funny.

• 1:22:34Griffin Newman?

  And it's a sort of like visiting parent day at the school.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  We get a little whiff of that. He makes it four sharks instead of three.

• 1:22:41Griffin Newman?

  So he's telling the story. You get to see it acted out. It's really funny. And then Dory's there and the kids are like, what about you, Dory? So you're like Nemo's mom? And she's like, no. And they're like, are you her aunt? They start asking questions about the family structure in a way that makes sense that kids would do.

• 1:22:56Speaker 03

  But I honestly do like that we don't ever get into that.

• 1:22:59Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  But I like that it's just like, they're just a family. We don't need to decide what it is.

• 1:23:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:23:06Speaker 04

  They're not hitting, right?

• 1:23:07Speaker 03

  We don't think, I don't think, I don't think yet.

• 1:23:11Griffin Newman?

  I also think this movie.

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  Old Marlin?

• 1:23:13Griffin Newman?

  This movie suggests.

• 1:23:15Speaker 04

  We'll see what happens.

• 1:23:15David Sims?

  I'm seeing it. I'm seeing it.

• 1:23:17Griffin Newman?

  This movie suggests to me that Dory is much younger than Ellen DeGeneres is.

• 1:23:23David Sims?

  Well, I mean, fish age less than humans.

• 1:23:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:28David Sims?

  So.

• 1:23:29Griffin Newman?

  But in the first movie, I'm like, oh, this is like two 40 something fish.

• 1:23:33Speaker 03

  No, I think she's probably in her late twenties in Finding Dory.

• 1:23:38Griffin Newman?

  Right. Okay. Yeah.

• 1:23:39David Sims?

  How long do you think a blue tang can live?

• 1:23:43Griffin Newman?

  Is it really depressing?

• 1:23:44Speaker 04

  12 years.

• 1:23:46David Sims?

  They can live more than 30 years in the wild.

• 1:23:49Griffin Newman?

  Whoa.

• 1:23:50David Sims?

  So they can live for a long time. Uh, it says eight to 30, which is kind of a big range, but, um, but commonly they live between 15 and 30 years. So she could be, you know, like 10 fish years, making her sort of like early, middle age or whatever. Cause what I think about is also sort of like, how long? Cause they say it's been years. They do say when she finally makes it to the fish who like know her parents. That was years ago.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  And we get three voice iterations.

• 1:24:21Griffin Newman?

  You do.

• 1:24:22Speaker 03

  We do. There's a teenage Dory. Which I do think they nailed the casting on.

• 1:24:26Griffin Newman?

  They did.

• 1:24:27David Sims?

  The child is especially good.

• 1:24:28Speaker 03

  But the teen is the perfect bridge between the child and Ellen.

• 1:24:32David Sims?

  Yeah. I was, I was seeing like once or twice.

• 1:24:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's just interesting to watch all these openings that are all like, oh, okay. Haven't caught find it. How do you reset the board so quickly and also start to drive that? Why Dory is suddenly activated by the lack of her parents and all this sort of stuff? And he was like, you know, the classic Stan thing of like, I want it to be a series of flashbacks that reveal themselves gradually, or is it one flashback that comes later? Or does the movie open with the flashback and that's a dream and it all comes later? And there was one that I thought was really stylistically interesting that was like, well, what would your memory be like as a child? And then on top of that, she's got short term memory loss, so she's getting glimpses, but they're abstracted and it's not a literal scene playing out. And then it just feels like in the evolution, at some point,

• 1:25:17Griffin Newman?

  someone drew up a storyboard where the opening shot is baby Dory. And everyone was like, well, you've lost the argument. Unfortunately, you have just found gold and the movie now starts with that no matter what. He's not saying this, but it definitely felt like suddenly they're all, well, as long as that's the first shot, you can do whatever you want after that.

• 1:25:39David Sims?

  Look, I saw this film in theaters. It did nothing for me. I rewatched it with my daughter and I liked it. And then just, I remember after my twins were born, when I was a very fragile person, I watched this with my daughter. My daughter put this on, my wife and I watch it. We were like sobbing and holding each other at the end of the movie. My, my daughter, to be clear, was just like, nah, nah, nah. But like my wife and I were like, Jesus Christ, like you're just so like traumatized by the idea of like a child losing their parents, by the idea of like their parents waiting for years. Is it manipulative? I might accuse it of being a smidge manipulative.

• 1:26:16Griffin Newman?

  I, I'm going to rip the Bandit off.

• 1:26:17David Sims?

  With the little, little baby Dory with her big old eyes.

• 1:26:20Griffin Newman?

  I, I think this movie is, is obviously not as strong as the first one. It's not as tight as the first one. I feel some of it's sort of like searching construction. And I think this is part of the Pixar sequel shift thing is, once they get them to agree to do sequels, these things get dates. Those dates are announced years in advance. Shareholders are promised, we will have a movie that will make a billion dollars in this quarter. And like stickers are put on bananas with the characters and bathing suits are made. And those movies become immovable, right? Basically, maybe if something's really going poorly, you can push it back six months. But also, if an original film is struggling, they'd rather push that back and go, sorry,

• 1:27:03Griffin Newman?

  bad news, Dory needs to come out four months later. And I think this is the kind of like Shake Shack-ification of Pixar a little bit is the movie starts sometimes feeling a little bit good enough in spots versus the classic Pixar thing being like, we will beat this like a drum until we get it as tight as it could possibly be. And I don't think everything in this movie works, but a thing I think it does incredibly well, which is the greatest justification for making this movie and making it distinct from the first one, is it's like basically a movie about being a caretaker for a special needs adult.

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:27:38Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:27:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:27:38Griffin Newman?

  That it is a special needs child who is lost and a found family. And this notion of like the responsibility of having to care for someone and the fear of them not being able to care for themselves and it not being the Finding Nemo thing of, well, he's little, he's still young, he's not ready yet versus Dory being like, will she ever be able to do any of this stuff on her own?

• 1:28:00Speaker 03

  I do also think it's about finding, it's about like figuring out how to care for yourself as, as someone who, you know, my, my reading of the film is that Dory's a bit neurodivergent.

• 1:28:15Griffin Newman?

  She is.

• 1:28:16Speaker 03

  Um, and it's something I watched, I watched Finding Nemo with my wife and we were talking about the Dory character. My wife has ADHD and she related so hard to Dory.

• 1:28:26Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  In terms of just like this experience of kind of not always knowing like what you were just doing and like blah, blah, blah. So I think it's, it's a lot of that too, where it is about the family, but it's also specifically about Dory, like learning to be confident in herself.

• 1:28:42Griffin Newman?

  It's doing all three sides of it really well. The parents with the concern of a child.

• 1:28:48Speaker 03

  Can we also, can we just shout out the, the, um,

• 1:28:51David Sims?

  Design of the Eugene Levy fish with the sort of male pattern.

• 1:28:54Griffin Newman?

  As you put it, receding hairline.

• 1:28:56David Sims?

  So funny. Yes.

• 1:28:57Griffin Newman?

  And the casting also, when they announced like it's Eugene Levy and Diane Keaton playing Dory's parents, you're like, yeah, that math works out. That makes sense. But I, I think their perspective of being parents, looking at a young child and feeling the concern of, will she able ever be able to do this on their own? Then the chosen family going like, we know what we've inherited, right? This is part of the burden of our life. We love her. We want her here, but this is now an added thing on our plate. We always have to be concerned about her and Dory figuring out how to do things on her own. I think all three are dramatically really well done and are tricky, kind of landmine-y things. And I also commend this movie for, as much as it was pushing

• 1:29:42Griffin Newman?

  its politics down our throat with that lesbian couple.

• 1:29:44David Sims?

  Disgusting.

• 1:29:45Griffin Newman?

  It, it wasn't really doing buzzwordy, representation matters shit.

• 1:29:51David Sims?

  Well, no. I mean, they are all fish.

• 1:29:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. But, but this is.

• 1:29:55David Sims?

  It's not like we're gonna have like a fish in a wheelchair or something. Maybe we could. I mean, look, I, yeah, I guess it could be a little more on the nose.

• 1:30:02Griffin Newman?

  Everything starts to just break in society, right?

• 1:30:05David Sims?

  Well, cause you're talking about Ghostbusters. Like, I feel like that's the most prime example of like, they're like, we're doing a girl Ghostbusters and it became like a fight or like a, you know, an internet kind of touch point in a way that I think a lot of people like me were just kind of like, why, who cares if there's a girl? What does it matter if there's a girl ghost? Why are you all activated by this? Why are you angry?

• 1:30:28Griffin Newman?

  What's happening? The, the beginning of the culture war as a defined thing.

• 1:30:32David Sims?

  And then in retrospect, I'm like, not, you know, not that I'm like, there shouldn't be girl Ghostbusters, but I'm like, I guess some of this stuff started to feel a little tryhard of like, you know, you've all waited for girl Ghostbusters and I'm, I have the same indifference where I'm like, I haven't, honestly. Right. I'm not against it. I'm fine with it.

• 1:30:49Griffin Newman?

  But I also.

• 1:30:50David Sims?

  But you also, you don't need to go like, take a victory lap about this, like per se.

• 1:30:54Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing. And I think especially as it's like, Trump is elected, everything becomes more divisive. Donald J. Trump was actually in 2016 elected president of the United States of America.

• 1:31:06David Sims?

  I remember that.

• 1:31:09Griffin Newman?

  Disney starts to do the preemptive back patting, you know?

• 1:31:12David Sims?

  Little bit.

• 1:31:13Griffin Newman?

  Like Joe Russo starts to be like, I'm so fucking gay in this Avengers movie.

• 1:31:17David Sims?

  Avengers Endgame, it's crazy.

• 1:31:19Griffin Newman?

  Gaston's gonna have an exclusively gay moment.

• 1:31:21David Sims?

  Which means he dates with a boy.

• 1:31:23Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then becomes this feedback loop of these movies are annoying, they're, they're shoving it down their throat. They're doing it disingenuously or whatever. I just feel like this movie gets there very honestly. And doesn't try to weaponize it in any manipulative way. As you're saying, it's more manipulative in the just basic.

• 1:31:40David Sims?

  It's just that.

• 1:31:41Griffin Newman?

  Losing a child.

• 1:31:42David Sims?

  Yeah, the kind of family peril stuff.

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  But she's lost. They just took the character of Dory seriously.

• 1:31:49Griffin Newman?

  They, they did a smart kind of like, let's do the math on this. Here's the character we built. What, what actually makes sense if you kind of like, spread the pieces out? And I know you've complained a little bit about how much this movie does the, we're going to explain every single random bit of Dory from the first movie.

• 1:32:09Speaker 03

  It was a bit Slumdog Millionaire.

• 1:32:11David Sims?

  Why can't she speak whale?

• 1:32:13Griffin Newman?

  That is a good comparison.

• 1:32:15David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:15Griffin Newman?

  It's like every one of these things, which in the first movie just felt like a miracle. Where did this come from?

• 1:32:21David Sims?

  It just felt like Ellen had a good idea every time.

• 1:32:23Griffin Newman?

  I think most of them were that, or a lot of them certainly.

• 1:32:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:28David Sims?

  And then they're like, no, no, no, you don't understand. She does speak whale. She had a whale friend. Where's, in the pipe. Okay.

• 1:32:34Griffin Newman?

  She can read because she's surrounded by plaques, but also audio narrating the plaques. Yeah.

• 1:32:41David Sims?

  Which is fine.

• 1:32:42Griffin Newman?

  It's fine.

• 1:32:43David Sims?

  It's fine. Um, but I do like the movie because I think it's very visually inventive within the, um, you know, uh, zoo.

• 1:32:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's some awesome sequences.

• 1:32:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:56David Sims?

  All of the kind of Pixar thinking of like, right, how do we get X to Y? How do we, you know, move characters through rooms and situations like, you know, the coffee pots, the octopus, you know, the floppy. I love the, um, Nemo and Marlin using the fountain to travel, like all that stuff. I'm like, you guys are just kinda, if nothing else, at the top of that game right now.

• 1:33:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:33:15David Sims?

  You know, even if things are getting a little lazy with your sequels or whatever, like you're so visually adept.

• 1:33:21Griffin Newman?

  A, a thing I think Stanton is also particularly good at is the, and, and is credited for this within even the larger Pixar films that he's not ostensibly the main writer, main director on. But he was sort of the guy who could lock in on the like, okay, if you're Mr. Potato Head, how do you feel? You know, if you're Mr. Potato Head, that means your pieces are falling out all the time, which means you're probably angry. Is it Don Rickles? And I feel like Bugs Life, which he's very involved in, has that same sort of logic of like, what would the inner emotional struggles and psychological hangups of each bug be based on?

• 1:33:55David Sims?

  The ladybug's got a chip on his shoulder.

• 1:33:58Griffin Newman?

  What kind of thing is that? But this movie does similarly, after doing so much of that in the first one, where you're like, what is there left to do in the sort of like inferiority complex of fishes?

• 1:34:10David Sims?

  Do you like my impression of Dennis Leary? I really did. I really did. Hey, it just, I just want coffee. Okay, just plain black coffee. Why's it gonna have to have fucking crunch in it or whatever? Remember that? He was so good at that. That was Dennis.

• 1:34:23Griffin Newman?

  What's that from?

• 1:34:24David Sims?

  It's from like Leary's. So like Leary's first special, you know, No Cure For Cancer.

• 1:34:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:34:28David Sims?

  You know, which is all his stuff that he's not famous yet and he's, you know.

• 1:34:32Griffin Newman?

  I tried watching that recently. It was tough.

• 1:34:34David Sims?

  You know.

• 1:34:35Griffin Newman?

  I grew up a Leary fan.

• 1:34:36David Sims?

  It's of its time.

• 1:34:36Griffin Newman?

  It's tough to watch.

• 1:34:37David Sims?

  It's of its time.

• 1:34:38Griffin Newman?

  Not, not even like, oh, this hasn't aged well, like culturally offensively.

• 1:34:41David Sims?

  It's just, no, it's not that offensive.

• 1:34:43Griffin Newman?

  What the fuck were we going through?

• 1:34:44David Sims?

  It's more just that. Exactly. But then Lock and Load is second special is the one where he's now kind of famous and has kids and like, and so it's more him being like, I go to fucking Dunkin' Donuts, they got maple coffee. What's going on? You know, that kind of thing.

• 1:35:00Speaker 03

  Wait, did he, did he ever do commercials with that as the premise?

• 1:35:03David Sims?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:35:04Speaker 03

  Of like, whatever happened to?

• 1:35:05David Sims?

  Did Dennis Leary ever do commercials?

• 1:35:06Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:35:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:08Speaker 03

  But I feel like, I feel like there was a commercial one of him being like, whatever happened to this?

• 1:35:13David Sims?

  That was his whole thing. He's pretty good at it. And the best thing in Lock and Load is when he rants about the Catholic Church because you're like, oh, he really hates the Catholic Church. You know, and like, that's a little more motivated by like, childhood and family.

• 1:35:26Griffin Newman?

  It was still a pretty touchy thing to do at that point in time.

• 1:35:28David Sims?

  It was, right. It's a little more hot, low, you know, right. Uh, but the, right, the stuff I loved when I was a kid, I was like, yeah, yeah, Dennis, tell them.

• 1:35:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, give it to them.

• 1:35:37David Sims?

  Me, the like 12 year old person who's never had coffee in his life. It's like, yeah, you used to just get a black coffee at the diner or whatever. Uh, and then he just stopped doing comedy and just voiced Ladybugs and Sabretooth Tigers and I guess did.

• 1:35:49Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:35:49David Sims?

  Claimless FX shows. Yeah, we're good. I mean, I love Rescue Me in a lot of ways. Like, that's another show where you watch it now and you're like, oh, they'd go to jail. Oh, right to jail. All this jail.

• 1:35:59Speaker 03

  I'm gonna have to watch that. I am.

• 1:36:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, start it now.

• 1:36:01Speaker 03

  Tapped in.

• 1:36:02David Sims?

  It's got some good stuff.

• 1:36:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um.

• 1:36:05David Sims?

  He's not in this movie.

• 1:36:06Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:36:06David Sims?

  Although if they made it in the 90s, he probably would be the fucking octopus. I mean, right? Like.

• 1:36:11Griffin Newman?

  You open with the sort of core trauma. They end up, you know, after him trying to outthink himself, doing a version of what he ended up having to do in the first movie of just like, show the thing. Here's Dory. She can't remember shit. Her parents are worried all the time. They're trying to teach her things. Just keep swimming and the shells that she can trace as like a Hansel and Gretel bread crumb trail back to them. But she gets caught in the, uh, the over tide, the under tide?

• 1:36:41David Sims?

  Uh, uh, under.

• 1:36:43Griffin Newman?

  Under.

• 1:36:44David Sims?

  Under current. No, undertow is a different thing. It's the undercurrent, I think they say.

• 1:36:48Speaker 04

  But she's in the display.

• 1:36:50Speaker 03

  That's what I was confused.

• 1:36:52Griffin Newman?

  That's what you find out later.

• 1:36:53Speaker 04

  Why would it have a current that pushes the fish into the pipe system?

• 1:36:59Griffin Newman?

  It's the vent. It's the vent. That's what it is.

• 1:37:01Speaker 03

  I think ultimately it's the vent.

• 1:37:03Speaker 04

  It's like a filtering system.

• 1:37:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they're, they're sort of misdirecting you at the beginning to not think that they're not in a natural environment.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Which maybe they, cause I, the fish all seem to know that they will get released. So they may, maybe they're just training her for her eventual.

• 1:37:19Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:37:20Speaker 03

  Life in the true ocean.

• 1:37:22Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:37:22Speaker 03

  When she's little, like that, I buy that.

• 1:37:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, but then you basically run to, right, the section of the movie that feels like a Beatles cover band or something to me, where it's like waking up for school, going Mr. Ray.

• 1:37:36Speaker 03

  Yes. Now, it, sure, it's not like the most original stuff. It still has bits that work. You know, it's like, when you have Ellen doing Dory, I'm happy.

• 1:37:46Griffin Newman?

  Do you know what I'm saying though, about how the bits all just feel like alts from the first movie? Because they're not doing.

• 1:37:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:37:54Griffin Newman?

  The sequel thing of, oh, we flipped this character's dynamic, or they're in a slightly different way. I'm like, every line that the turtles say feels like something that could have been cut from the first movie.

• 1:38:04Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, the turtles are in it for like 22 seconds.

• 1:38:08Griffin Newman?

  It's so.

• 1:38:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're, they're barely part of it. But yes, but, but for me, I was still having fun with Dory. Like.

• 1:38:15Griffin Newman?

  Dory rolls.

• 1:38:16Speaker 03

  Her, Ellen's line readings in this movie, almost every line, I'm just like, yep.

• 1:38:23Speaker 03

  That's the good stuff.

• 1:38:24David Sims?

  I agree. I would agree. I will agree that when Ellen speaks, that is the good stuff. Yes. And like there, I guess there is a world where you could say like, you know what? Ellen has been not doing movies. She's been doing a chat show for 10 plus years at this point. This movie, she, you, she could phone this in. I do not feel that she phones this.

• 1:38:44Speaker 03

  No, not at all.

• 1:38:45David Sims?

  Yes. Like, I feel like she gets this character very well still.

• 1:38:48Speaker 03

  Like even in that early sequence that, you know, is kind of playing the hits that just that bit where, where he's like, don't go too close to the edge. And then she pushes them so far away from the edge. And then she's like, no, no, that's too far and brings him back. Like just, I could watch Ellen do that endlessly.

• 1:39:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And, and you know, the first movie, that character is clearly meant to be more of like a dilemma and just comic relief. And the whole surprise was that she brought as much emotional grounding and well roundedness to it. That you're like, you could make her the center of the movie. This will work. Putting the story weight on her won't stop her from being funny. There's a universe in which there's a concern of a Dr. Ian Malcolm problem.

• 1:39:31David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 1:39:32Griffin Newman?

  If he's not the guy to the side and he's the guy who has to share the story, does he not?

• 1:39:36David Sims?

  It's very interesting. Goldblum is the best because it's not just Malcolm even. It's also Dr. Ian Malcolm in Independence Day. I forget what it is. David, Dr. Scientist, Mr. I just rewatched Independence Day and forgot that he says must go faster in it. Literally that they're just like, can you, can you just say it again?

• 1:39:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:53David Sims?

  Say the thing you said in dress work. What if you just said it again?

• 1:39:56Griffin Newman?

  But can't we just make the whole movie out of this guy?

• 1:39:57David Sims?

  Right. And then, right. When he's, Goldblum is kind of the lead of resurgence. You're like, man, you know, he needs to be in the mix. Like, yeah, right. Uh, obviously Jurassic Park, um, Dominion.

• 1:40:09Griffin Newman?

  Fixed it.

• 1:40:09David Sims?

  Oh, fixed it. He was so good in that. I don't even remember what he did in that, honestly.

• 1:40:13Griffin Newman?

  It's the live action Moana of Jurassic movies.

• 1:40:16David Sims?

  Wait, what does he do in that one? Cause is he on locust patrol in that one?

• 1:40:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:20David Sims?

  Is he?

• 1:40:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:21David Sims?

  Cause I remember Neil and Durnar.

• 1:40:24Griffin Newman?

  Them are.

• 1:40:24David Sims?

  But he's in there too.

• 1:40:25Griffin Newman?

  She brings them together to get locusts. Specifically get the locusts and Sam Neill spends, like a 70 year old Sam Neill spends the entire movie being like, I don't know how to tell her that. I have a crush on her. And I'm like, weren't you fucking in the first movie? The whole thing is that like in three, they established that she married some other guy and had kids.

• 1:40:45David Sims?

  Right, that they broke up or whatever.

• 1:40:48Griffin Newman?

  And in this one, Goldblum's like, you know, she's divorced now. And Sam Neill's like, oh, I wouldn't even know how to tell her how I feel.

• 1:40:55Speaker 03

  We're gonna, we're gonna get to this in old Marlin as well.

• 1:40:59David Sims?

  Were you, were you a Jurassic Park Dominion fan?

• 1:41:03Speaker 03

  I don't remember that one. I've seen every Jurassic Park movie.

• 1:41:06Griffin Newman?

  That's the one about the locust that barely has dinosaurs in it, which is a really good formula.

• 1:41:10Speaker 03

  At all.

• 1:41:11Griffin Newman?

  So they basically realized that the company that Wayne Knight smuggled the shaving cream can to in the first movie had been the one, we never, we never followed up on that. So they're a rival company that's been doing their own genetic fuckery.

• 1:41:27Speaker 03

  Is this the second world?

• 1:41:28Griffin Newman?

  This is the third world.

• 1:41:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:31David Sims?

  And the second world is the one that has like a haunted house movie inside it.

• 1:41:34Griffin Newman?

  Right, it becomes an auction at a manor in the countryside.

• 1:41:37Speaker 03

  I don't remember any of this, but I will see.

• 1:41:39Griffin Newman?

  And the dinosaurs are in the house.

• 1:41:40Speaker 03

  All of them in theaters. You put dinos on a big screen, I'm, I'm there.

• 1:41:43Griffin Newman?

  So that movie has Goldblum in it, but he just has a cameo speaking in front of Congress, being like, we should stop the dinosaurs. And then at the end, he says, welcome to Jurassic World.

• 1:41:56Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:41:56Griffin Newman?

  And, and the premise is that the little clone girl has freed all the dinosaurs.

• 1:42:01Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 1:42:02Griffin Newman?

  That are now on mainland America.

• 1:42:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:05Griffin Newman?

  And so I'm, we have to live amongst the dinosaurs.

• 1:42:07Speaker 03

  But then at the beginning of the next movie, they're all dying.

• 1:42:09Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:42:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:42:10Griffin Newman?

  Right. And they're like, they mostly just like hang out in the woods. They don't bother us. So what's this movie about? The rival genetics company used the shaving cream DNA.

• 1:42:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:42:19Griffin Newman?

  To do other fuckery, but never try to do dinosaur shit.

• 1:42:22David Sims?

  They did locusts.

• 1:42:23Griffin Newman?

  And one of their things was that they also do like Monsanto style food fuckery. Like artificially grown or.

• 1:42:30David Sims?

  GM food, whatever.

• 1:42:31Griffin Newman?

  And they were trying to defeat one of their competitors by creating super locusts that would attack their competitors' crops.

• 1:42:41David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:42:41Griffin Newman?

  But the locust got too big and now they're eating all the food and we will all starve interstellar style to death unless.

• 1:42:49David Sims?

  Good. Unless.

• 1:42:50Griffin Newman?

  All of our main characters from both trilogies have to stop the locusts.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  I think the reason I don't.

• 1:42:54Griffin Newman?

  Sometimes a dinosaur shows up for a minute.

• 1:42:56David Sims?

  Goes rawr.

• 1:42:57Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't remember the details of this one, cause I think I, I've been confusing you with the news.

• 1:43:05Griffin Newman?

  I'm giving you profundity snaps.

• 1:43:08David Sims?

  You know, there's this moment in one of those, I think it's the one you said where he says, welcome to Jurassic world. Did you notice this moment where like the character is handed like this kind of rectangular piece of paper? Then he goes.

• 1:43:19Griffin Newman?

  Has a president face on it.

• 1:43:21David Sims?

  Right. No, no, it's like, and he goes to like a bank of America and he like has a little conversation with someone and they like, they like put it into a slot.

• 1:43:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:28David Sims?

  And then he goes ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.

• 1:43:30Griffin Newman?

  That was the end credits.

• 1:43:31David Sims?

  Right. I didn't know what that was going on in that scene. I don't know what that is.

• 1:43:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Dominion ends with Laura Dern and she's got the Chase banking app open and she keeps scrolling it down to refresh. And then she sees the five million go up.

• 1:43:47Speaker 03

  That's it. It was a great after credits.

• 1:43:48David Sims?

  Look, someone should just do that in a legacy sequel. Chris Pratt's like, we need your help and just has like an envelope of money. He's like, this is for you, by the way.

• 1:43:55Griffin Newman?

  I will say actually, I will be disappointed if the Spaceballs sequel doesn't do that. That feels like the perfect movie.

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  I mean, that happens a little bit in the newest Jurassic.

• 1:44:07David Sims?

  In the, the, the Scar joke.

• 1:44:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:09Speaker 03

  They kind of have to be like, all right, everyone, we're going to pay you a lot.

• 1:44:12David Sims?

  Right. Like if you want to see dinosaurs, I'm like, no, like Scar just like, no, I've seen them. They're, what do you mean? There's so many of these movies. Like, I'll give you $20 million. She's like, all right, fine, whatever.

• 1:44:21Griffin Newman?

  You got a gun? Openly cynical that movie is about like, the only reason you would ever do this again is if they were paying you fuck you money. No one's heart is in it, except for Jonathan Bailey, who they all mock.

• 1:44:33David Sims?

  Yeah. He's like, I kind of like dinosaurs.

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  Like what?

• 1:44:35Griffin Newman?

  You fucking pussy. Call me Jonathan Bailey, cause I'm, I'm still a dinosaur boy.

• 1:44:41David Sims?

  Well, I'm excited for the, what's it? The house on the end of the street with the dinosaur movie?

• 1:44:45Griffin Newman?

  Have you seen this trailer, Zach? It's from the director of It Follows and Under the Silver Lake and it's suburban family Anne Hathaway.

• 1:44:52David Sims?

  What's it called? The house? It has a kind of annoying title.

• 1:44:55Griffin Newman?

  House at the end of Oak Street?

• 1:44:56David Sims?

  The end of Oak Street.

• 1:44:58Griffin Newman?

  Anne Hathaway, Ewan McGregor and their kids and their house.

• 1:45:02David Sims?

  Oh, it's just called The End of Oak Street. Okay. There we go.

• 1:45:04Griffin Newman?

  There's like some sort of time dilation.

• 1:45:08David Sims?

  Transported to dinosaurs. Don't really know anything more than that.

• 1:45:11Griffin Newman?

  This one suburban street gets transported to prehistoric times.

• 1:45:16Griffin Newman?

  It looks awesome. I'm really into it.

• 1:45:19David Sims?

  Uh, me into it, me into it too.

• 1:45:20Griffin Newman?

  I'm also really just into the idea of can someone please break the Jurassic franchise's monopoly on dinosaur movies?

• 1:45:28David Sims?

  Can others do dinosaurs?

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  Well, we have the Kong verse.

• 1:45:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:33David Sims?

  That's true. And they do have dinosaurs.

• 1:45:35Speaker 03

  They're dinosaur-ish.

• 1:45:37Griffin Newman?

  I feel like as they've gone on, they've swung further away from dinosaurs and more to can we create our own creatures? And I miss the straight up.

• 1:45:45Speaker 03

  They're dinosaur.

• 1:45:46Griffin Newman?

  They are.

• 1:45:47Speaker 03

  Adjacent.

• 1:45:47Griffin Newman?

  But I always like King Kong just fucking punching a T-Rex.

• 1:45:51David Sims?

  What if you have a glove?

• 1:45:53Griffin Newman?

  Beast.

• 1:45:54Speaker 03

  You, if he had a glove, it would be.

• 1:45:56David Sims?

  He gets a glove in one of these things.

• 1:45:56Speaker 03

  It would be as good as it was when he had a glove.

• 1:46:00David Sims?

  Did he get glove first, then axe or other way around?

• 1:46:03Griffin Newman?

  Other way around.

• 1:46:04David Sims?

  Axe first, then glove?

• 1:46:05Griffin Newman?

  Right. He, right. Cause he built.

• 1:46:06David Sims?

  The axe is made out of like a Godzilla spine or something?

• 1:46:09Griffin Newman?

  One, one scale.

• 1:46:11David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:11Griffin Newman?

  That he puts inside a big log. And then the second one, he's got the beast glove. And I'm hoping that in the next one, he gets shoes.

• 1:46:19Speaker 03

  I think he needs a hat.

• 1:46:21David Sims?

  Uh, a little fedora?

• 1:46:23Griffin Newman?

  A little, a drawn to.

• 1:46:24David Sims?

  Like Kong gets a little pretentious or like moves to Bushwick or something.

• 1:46:28Speaker 03

  But I mean, I was thinking more of a helmet, but I'd like him in a little fedora.

• 1:46:33Griffin Newman?

  Sure. Helmet makes me think of like, can we put him in like a cannon? Can we start shooting him out?

• 1:46:39Speaker 03

  Kong can.

• 1:46:40David Sims?

  That's fun. Like Godzilla shows up and is like, one second. And then like rolls out a big cannon and is like, get in.

• 1:46:46Griffin Newman?

  Right. There's a big wick. He has to light it.

• 1:46:48David Sims?

  Oh, that sounds, with his atomic breath.

• 1:46:50Griffin Newman?

  And then he puts his fingers in his ears.

• 1:46:52David Sims?

  His fingies have to go in his ears.

• 1:46:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:46:54David Sims?

  I mean, now it sounds like we're just workshopping a Donkey Kong movie. Like I feel like we're moving away from King Kong and towards Donkey Kong.

• 1:47:00Griffin Newman?

  I did, I did like that Super Mario Galaxy did put in the weirdly realistic T-Rex from, uh, Odyssey.

• 1:47:09David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, the right, the little baby Mario.

• 1:47:13Griffin Newman?

  The baby's fuck with a hyper realistic. Yeah, hyper realistic T Rex.

• 1:47:18David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:47:19Griffin Newman?

  I just think maybe the greatest moment in the history of movies is in the Peter Jackson King Kong, when he fights the T Rex and he like breaks his jaw from the inside. And then before he throws him off a cliff, he just plays with it a little bit like a fucking puppet. We gotta get that back into movies. That's what woke took from.

• 1:47:37Speaker 03

  Kong rips some, some, uh, whatever the Skull Island guys are, he does that to them a little bit.

• 1:47:41Griffin Newman?

  Skull crawlers.

• 1:47:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, he rips some skull crawlers open.

• 1:47:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I just like.

• 1:47:45Speaker 03

  He didn't play with it as much.

• 1:47:46Griffin Newman?

  The playing with it.

• 1:47:47David Sims?

  Yeah, sort of like an animal. Right. Which is an animal. Uh, what do we want to say about?

• 1:47:52Griffin Newman?

  Twenty minutes, yada, yada, yada. They're like.

• 1:47:54Speaker 03

  Jewel of Moro Bay.

• 1:47:55Griffin Newman?

  Right. She's like, I gotta get to California. The whole first movie is how hard it is to get anywhere. And they're just like, let's just fucking use the turtles. It feels like such a like, guys, come on, I'm sorry. They insisted we put the turtles in for merch reasons. We're gonna use the turtles as a shortcut. They basically make them like hyperspeed. And then the second they get off the turtle current, I'm like, the movie's good and stays good.

• 1:48:17David Sims?

  Yeah, it does stay good. It moves along in the right way and it, yes, yes, I think.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  The turtles are sort of the writers of Rohan in my, in the, if we're, they're sort of.

• 1:48:26Griffin Newman?

  I thought the same thing. I was like, this is as kind of like, what? An eagle can just fucking show up and take them there?

• 1:48:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that works for me.

• 1:48:34Griffin Newman?

  But I think Hank immediately hits. I do like how sneaky he is.

• 1:48:39Speaker 03

  Yes, it's, I think, is he the first person we've seen try to sort of use Dory's condition against her? Yeah, I feel like everyone else is kind of just like, oh, hey, yeah.

• 1:48:50David Sims?

  Right. It's kind of like.

• 1:48:51Speaker 03

  He tries to memento her a little bit.

• 1:48:53David Sims?

  The memento thing of like, can I get you to pay the rent twice?

• 1:48:56Griffin Newman?

  And it's another smart, kind of like Pixar logic thing of like, oh, does that tag? Is there a power in that kind of tag? He wants to get back or he wants to stay in.

• 1:49:07Speaker 03

  He wants to go to Cleveland so he can live in peace.

• 1:49:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes, right. He wants to stop being bothered.

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  I can deeply relate to.

• 1:49:13Griffin Newman?

  Um, but yes, right. You're immediately. He's untrustworthy.

• 1:49:16Speaker 03

  Cleveland.

• 1:49:17Griffin Newman?

  He's sneaky. I love the way he moves.

• 1:49:21David Sims?

  Yes, the way he moves is really fun to watch.

• 1:49:23Griffin Newman?

  And I love how for asshole he is.

• 1:49:25David Sims?

  Sure. He's kind of me.

• 1:49:28Griffin Newman?

  He is kind of.

• 1:49:28David Sims?

  Where he's just like, Jesus Christ.

• 1:49:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. The big bags under the eyes.

• 1:49:32David Sims?

  And he's like, okay.

• 1:49:34Griffin Newman?

  His character is 90% under eye bags.

• 1:49:36David Sims?

  Yeah, which is good design.

• 1:49:38Griffin Newman?

  Facial animation. Yeah.

• 1:49:40David Sims?

  He's a septopus, of course.

• 1:49:41Griffin Newman?

  I like how touchy he is about that.

• 1:49:43David Sims?

  Right. And he helps her find Bailey and Destiny. Is the moment where she jumps in with the dead fish, how she gets to them, right? Cause I like that too, cause that is, it's just dark enough. Like that's the amount of Pixar dark I want, where she's like, just play dead. I get it. You know, where you're like, let's, yeah, we can acknowledge this.

• 1:50:05Speaker 03

  She sees the bucket with Destiny written on it and she jumps in.

• 1:50:08Griffin Newman?

  It's also this good line they maintain of like, Dory can't be too dumb. Right? Like Dory misunderstanding things is funny, but especially in a movie, thank you, where.

• 1:50:20David Sims?

  I think, I think.

• 1:50:21Griffin Newman?

  I appreciate your apology.

• 1:50:22David Sims?

  Well, cause I was thinking the undertow is a beach thing.

• 1:50:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:24David Sims?

  I think it's a, but there is a real thing that they address where it's like, all the fish moving around does create like a kind of bottom of the sea current that humans don't think about.

• 1:50:33Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:50:33David Sims?

  That like moves shit around.

• 1:50:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but that's what they call it.

• 1:50:36David Sims?

  The ocean is scary.

• 1:50:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:38David Sims?

  Very scary.

• 1:50:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:40David Sims?

  I love it though. Get me in there. Yeah. Get me in there.

• 1:50:42Speaker 03

  I don't like to go down there.

• 1:50:44Griffin Newman?

  Do you ever do any sort of?

• 1:50:46David Sims?

  Like scuba?

• 1:50:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:47Speaker 03

  Almost. No, that never.

• 1:50:49David Sims?

  But like snorkeling.

• 1:50:51Speaker 03

  I barely go in a pool.

• 1:50:52David Sims?

  I love to go in a pool.

• 1:50:53Griffin Newman?

  I feel like you're like me where we like traveling. It's like the greatest luxury of like work when our careers are going well, that you get to go places.

• 1:51:04Speaker 03

  It is nice to get to do it by accident essentially.

• 1:51:07Griffin Newman?

  Right. But I feel like you and I are the same where what we like doing is being a city explorer. Like I don't want to necessarily go to the tour shit and I don't want to like fucking swim in some fucking thing.

• 1:51:17David Sims?

  Wait, in the Severance episode where you guys went upstate, I mean, you went to.

• 1:51:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:20David Sims?

  You know, the.

• 1:51:22Speaker 03

  To the parking lot.

• 1:51:23David Sims?

  The Keir Park or whatever. Uh, did you swim? Cause there was a lot of water stuff.

• 1:51:27Speaker 03

  No, I never go in the water.

• 1:51:28David Sims?

  You didn't get drowned.

• 1:51:29Speaker 03

  I'm just in the snow.

• 1:51:30David Sims?

  You're just in the snow.

• 1:51:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:31David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:31Speaker 03

  I remember.

• 1:51:32Griffin Newman?

  Snow I can handle.

• 1:51:33David Sims?

  Sure. You're.

• 1:51:34Speaker 03

  I know it's, I know it's water, but it's less scary.

• 1:51:38David Sims?

  Yeah. So come on. Yeah. You could walk on it. It's easy. It's no big deal.

• 1:51:42Speaker 03

  You can eat it.

• 1:51:43Griffin Newman?

  Snow is better.

• 1:51:44Speaker 03

  Fine.

• 1:51:45Speaker 04

  Avalanche, though. That's a lot of snow.

• 1:51:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:48Speaker 04

  That could fuck you up.

• 1:51:49David Sims?

  Well, too much of one thing is always bad.

• 1:51:52Griffin Newman?

  Interesting. I mean, Finding Dory would argue otherwise.

• 1:51:57David Sims?

  I suppose so. I mean, okay, so.

• 1:51:59Griffin Newman?

  It's just that it gives you way more Dory than the first time and it still works.

• 1:52:03David Sims?

  So Destiny's deal is that she's nearsighted and is always bonking into things.

• 1:52:07Griffin Newman?

  Right. Which is another good reverse logic characterization thing. Yeah.

• 1:52:10David Sims?

  Bailey is embarrassed about his nose noggin.

• 1:52:14Griffin Newman?

  I just, I love everything about how strange. I like his weird design. I like that they almost always keep him in profile where it feels like he's a 2D character weirdly in a 3D movie. And I really like Ty Burrell's performance, but the logic of he now thinks he's lost his echo sonar because he bumped his head and that's why his head looks like that. And he's self-conscious about it, even though that's just the species he is, is really funny to me.

• 1:52:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it is fun that because they're at this sort of like rehab facility.

• 1:52:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:53Speaker 03

  Everyone is a bit of a misfit.

• 1:52:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Yes.

• 1:52:56Speaker 03

  So it's like, it is really nice the way they all support each other and, and basically like hype each other up and be like, you can do this.

• 1:53:05Griffin Newman?

  It's the other thing that post Blackfish stops it from feeling like a they are stuck here. They're being held prisoners. Is the unifying thing is that all of these creatures are kind of like, I don't want to be out there.

• 1:53:18David Sims?

  They're misfit toys. Right.

• 1:53:19Griffin Newman?

  That's scary. And I'm not ready. Right.

• 1:53:23Speaker 04

  I like snotfish. That's a funny bit.

• 1:53:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:27Speaker 04

  Fish sneezes.

• 1:53:29David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:30Speaker 04

  Do they sneeze?

• 1:53:31David Sims?

  You know what? I'm gonna go to Google. I'm gonna find out. Do fish.

• 1:53:35Griffin Newman?

  My, my favorite like little.

• 1:53:37David Sims?

  No. What? They don't have lungs. So they don't, and they don't really have noses. I know obviously in Nemo, they have these things.

• 1:53:44Griffin Newman?

  The ones that sneeze.

• 1:53:45David Sims?

  Right. But, uh, yeah. So they don't really have the ability to do that. Fair enough.

• 1:53:50Speaker 03

  Yep. Sorry.

• 1:53:51Griffin Newman?

  Uh, my, my favorite little one scene guy is the overly, uh, personable, uh, clam.

• 1:53:59Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:59Griffin Newman?

  I think he's so good.

• 1:54:01Speaker 03

  Oh, when they, right. When Marlin and Nemo get, they, they get stuck with him, right?

• 1:54:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes. He was originally supposed to be their next door neighbor in the opening and one of these fake openings or, or unused opening.

• 1:54:15Speaker 03

  He talks.

• 1:54:16Griffin Newman?

  I looked at he's like a muppet.

• 1:54:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 1:54:18Griffin Newman?

  That he doesn't have eyes or anything else, that he's just a clam that opens up and is just like, this guy's not, it's not a bad guy, but I just really don't want to be stuck talking to him.

• 1:54:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I gotta, I gotta move on.

• 1:54:28Griffin Newman?

  He's like a guy at the table next to you at a restaurant who won't stop being like, that looks good.

• 1:54:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you try to use your sort of body language cues to slowly, you know, rotate to like, decrease the interaction slowly over time, but he's not really picking up on it.

• 1:54:43Griffin Newman?

  And it's so funny to do that with a character that doesn't have a face.

• 1:54:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is a great little.

• 1:54:48David Sims?

  Do you know what the science?

• 1:54:49Griffin Newman?

  But yes, they, they wrote this bit in with him. And then even when they cut that opening, they were like, this guy's too good. We have to figure out another way to get stuck with him.

• 1:54:56David Sims?

  Do you know the scientific term for the bulbous part of a toothed whale's head that contains its echolocation center? You know, the sort of big thing.

• 1:55:04Griffin Newman?

  What's it called?

• 1:55:05David Sims?

  A melon.

• 1:55:06Griffin Newman?

  A melon?

• 1:55:06David Sims?

  They literally just call it a melon.

• 1:55:08Griffin Newman?

  That's fun.

• 1:55:08David Sims?

  Yeah, it's fun.

• 1:55:21Griffin Newman?

  You got the two seals who are sort of the high status, we know everything.

• 1:55:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:27Griffin Newman?

  But are assholes too.

• 1:55:29Speaker 03

  Gerald.

• 1:55:30Griffin Newman?

  Who you want to defend?

• 1:55:31Speaker 03

  No, well, I just.

• 1:55:32Griffin Newman?

  Or you want to interrogate?

• 1:55:33Speaker 03

  I just, I think.

• 1:55:34Griffin Newman?

  The movie's positioning of Gerald.

• 1:55:35Speaker 03

  Gerald slightly undercuts the message of the film because the film, the film is all about like owning your differences and, and like, uh,

• 1:55:47David Sims?

  It's okay to have something up with you essentially.

• 1:55:50Speaker 03

  Yes. And you can do things and, and you should be sort of accepted and affirmed. And then Gerald shows up and they're like, you fucking freak. Get the fuck out of here. What's wrong with your fucking eyebrows? Don't touch our rock.

• 1:56:03Griffin Newman?

  Is Gerald a radio is the other thing.

• 1:56:05Speaker 03

  I, I don't know what's going on with Gerald.

• 1:56:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:56:08David Sims?

  But by radio, you refer to the Cuba Gooding Jr. Movie, of course, not the, uh, device for listening to audio transmissions.

• 1:56:15Griffin Newman?

  No, I am aware of the fact that he is not an electronic device. They don't treat him very well.

• 1:56:20Speaker 03

  They don't. They don't.

• 1:56:21Griffin Newman?

  And I think you're right.

• 1:56:22Speaker 03

  Characters and honestly, the film itself.

• 1:56:24Griffin Newman?

  But it's a one, you know, it's whatever.

• 1:56:26David Sims?

  I mean, it feels like them trying to find a new version of the seagull joke, right? The seagulls is basically like, doesn't it kind of sound like seagulls are saying mine? And so like with the, the sea lions, the way they bark. It's trying to do that again.

• 1:56:38Griffin Newman?

  They need to be an asshole to someone.

• 1:56:40David Sims?

  Not as successful. Yes.

• 1:56:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. I guess.

• 1:56:43David Sims?

  This is the stuff that feels similar to, you know, it's like,

• 1:56:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:46David Sims?

  We should have like these suicide characters that relay information that are, you know, kind of like a big jokey thing.

• 1:56:51Griffin Newman?

  It's a little like, right. Cause you're combining some of the Nigel, the sort of idea of the creature that can exist in both, but is the observer and the know it all and the go between for information. Nigel's the Geoffrey Rush Pelican.

• 1:57:08Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 1:57:09Griffin Newman?

  Character.

• 1:57:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:57:10Griffin Newman?

  So it's like combining that with like, they sit on the rock and they see everything with also them being the seagulls. I think the performances are really funny. I like them being two blokes.

• 1:57:19Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:57:20Griffin Newman?

  You know?

• 1:57:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have no issues with them.

• 1:57:22Griffin Newman?

  I guess the argument is couldn't he have been like a Donnie in the Big Lebowski trio? Could they still be an asshole to him while he is a character who can speak? And isn't coded as perhaps developmentally disabled.

• 1:57:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:57:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:38Speaker 03

  I mean, I think probably, and then, but I think Becky, they do a much better job with. Because Becky, Becky is very much like a microcosm of Dory's story almost.

• 1:57:48Griffin Newman?

  That's what they learn. Right.

• 1:57:49Speaker 03

  Marlin is like, you can't do anything. And then they learn, oh, just trust her and she'll, she'll figure it out.

• 1:57:54David Sims?

  Becky is a loon, a bird literally named for being crazy essentially. So that's.

• 1:58:00Speaker 03

  Interesting. We never hear her do the loon call.

• 1:58:03David Sims?

  Ooh.

• 1:58:04Speaker 03

  I guess kind of.

• 1:58:05David Sims?

  They are crazy. It is like, I've like vacationed on lakes of loons and it does sound crazy when they're just doing that at night.

• 1:58:12Griffin Newman?

  It's another thing that I think helps with Becky is that the loons are all crazy, are all non-verbal. And Becky's just a little weirder.

• 1:58:20Speaker 03

  And she's hot.

• 1:58:22David Sims?

  Someone finally says it.

• 1:58:24Griffin Newman?

  I mean, we had to, we had to get here eventually. I assume Becky would have a really big part in old Marlin.

• 1:58:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:31Speaker 03

  I mean, they have chemistry.

• 1:58:33David Sims?

  She comes walking through that door again.

• 1:58:35Speaker 03

  They have chemistry. They have sort of a like, Marlon almost enjoys the fact that she doesn't listen like, it's almost like a, they're developing a subdom type thing.

• 1:58:45Griffin Newman?

  Is it like a Burton and Taylor? Like the fighting is the juice?

• 1:58:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:50Speaker 03

  They're, they're headed towards fandom thread, basically of, they have this sort of dynamic that, you know, he, he likes being like, Becky, you do this thing. And she's kind of like, ooh, I'm not going to do it or I'm not, you know?

• 1:59:01Griffin Newman?

  It's also, I think, just like a smart refinement for them of Dory isn't lost. They're close enough to Dory. They're versions of the movie they clearly ran through where Dory swims off. They know where she is, but there's a parallel narrative of Marlon and Nemo needing to get there. Versus what we're saying of like, it's a very different type of environment. It's harder to traverse, but they're never that far from her. It's more the sort of puzzle. Yeah. And then I also think it helps create this thing where the tension isn't, how do we find Dory? It's what you're saying, the testing of like, you're applying your Marlon logic to this and it's not going to work. Marlon has to accept

• 1:59:46Griffin Newman?

  her line of thinking, Becky's line of thinking.

• 1:59:49David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. Totally. I mean, and there's this sort of mystery element to the whole narrative of like, she needs to remember like, why the shells mean something to her. Why the, right? Like, and it's very satisfying to sort of.

• 2:00:07Griffin Newman?

  I, I feel like there's too many flashbacks. Like there's too many filling in the pieces and underlining it.

• 2:00:13Speaker 03

  But.

• 2:00:13Griffin Newman?

  And then I remember that like, your daughter has seen this movie 20 times. Maybe that, this, this narrative is not digestible for a five-year-old if you don't do that.

• 2:00:23Speaker 03

  You, it really shocker.

• 2:00:25David Sims?

  It really changes your perspective on children's entertainment when you watch the movie with the, with the children that the entertainment is intended for. And you're like, right, of course. Like it's on her wavelength. It's not on my wavelength.

• 2:00:36Griffin Newman?

  Cause I've been like a 37-year-old man seeing animated films, being alone and being like.

• 2:00:40David Sims?

  Do I detect a plot hole? Like, you know, it's like.

• 2:00:43Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me. You don't need to spoon feed this to us. And I'm like, literally sitting next to a baby being spoon fed.

• 2:00:48David Sims?

  It's like, you know? I was spoon feeding that girl her food more recently than, you know, whatever. Like, you know, she was eating it.

• 2:00:56Griffin Newman?

  That was my experience watching Goat though, where I saw Goat and I was like, okay, this is a little overstated. And I looked next to it and there was like a woman feeding a baby mush in the chair next to me in the theater. I was like, maybe I need to shut the fuck up.

• 2:01:11David Sims?

  When Goat was available for purchase for 30 whole dollars on iTunes, I was like, purchase.

• 2:01:16Griffin Newman?

  You didn't wait for the steal?

• 2:01:18David Sims?

  No, I, I don't buy children's films on steel, like the whole.

• 2:01:22Griffin Newman?

  It's all digital quick access.

• 2:01:24David Sims?

  To be on the iPad.

• 2:01:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:25David Sims?

  It needs to be like, she's like, I want Goat and I'm like, got you Goat. It's ready. Watch. There it is.

• 2:01:30Griffin Newman?

  You get that free digital code.

• 2:01:31Speaker 03

  Are you going to buy the Goat steel?

• 2:01:34David Sims?

  No, I'm not. I don't like Goat. Okay. Come on.

• 2:01:37Speaker 03

  That's never stopped you before.

• 2:01:39David Sims?

  Did you see Goat?

• 2:01:39Speaker 03

  Uh, I didn't.

• 2:01:41David Sims?

  Goat's good.

• 2:01:41Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm.

• 2:01:42David Sims?

  You like basketball?

• 2:01:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:43David Sims?

  I mean, technically the game is called Roarball.

• 2:01:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, we might want to take a little dip into the logic of.

• 2:01:49David Sims?

  Different from basketball.

• 2:01:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:52David Sims?

  Rule one.

• 2:01:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:53David Sims?

  Animals can play it.

• 2:01:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the ball is very different. It looks exactly like a basketball, except it has a million holes inside of it.

• 2:01:59David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:59Griffin Newman?

  So that any type of animal appendage could hold it.

• 2:02:03David Sims?

  Can, can.

• 2:02:03Griffin Newman?

  If you have like claws or paws or whatever.

• 2:02:06David Sims?

  Yeah, like, and the way it works, like you kind of need like a giraffe on your team to like, you know, protect the rim or whatever, right?

• 2:02:12Speaker 03

  And that's the basketball.

• 2:02:13David Sims?

  Right, exactly.

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  Center?

• 2:02:14David Sims?

  Yeah, the giraffe's like the center.

• 2:02:16Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:02:16David Sims?

  Uh, there's an ostrich character who's kind of a wing.

• 2:02:19Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 2:02:20David Sims?

  You know, like, uh.

• 2:02:21Speaker 03

  It's all tracks.

• 2:02:22David Sims?

  Yeah, she's good.

• 2:02:23Speaker 03

  So is your, has your daughter transferred her love of Roarball to basketball at all yet?

• 2:02:28David Sims?

  No, because I'm so intently trying to, uh, brainwash her into liking baseball.

• 2:02:31Speaker 03

  Ah, okay.

• 2:02:32David Sims?

  So she mostly works about that.

• 2:02:33Speaker 03

  Baseball first.

• 2:02:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:02:34Speaker 03

  But you know.

• 2:02:35David Sims?

  But I am going to try and get her into the WNBA eventually.

• 2:02:37Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, I don't know if you've ever met Sims's wife, Zach.

• 2:02:41Speaker 03

  I don't think I have.

• 2:02:42Griffin Newman?

  She is similarly very tall.

• 2:02:44David Sims?

  She's tall. She played volleyball.

• 2:02:45Griffin Newman?

  David's daughter is almost definitely destined to be.

• 2:02:49David Sims?

  Oh, she's, my daughter is in the 99%.

• 2:02:52Griffin Newman?

  Basketball.

• 2:02:52David Sims?

  She's very, very tall. Yes, no, this, this could all happen. I mean, or softball or any athletics. The only issue is she, she's got those. David Sims jeans, you know, moving around inside of her and they may limit her athletic ability. It just might be a hampering. My, my wife did play volleyball through college. So like she, you know, she could have, yeah. But Roarball also, yes, the home team, which might be say like a team with like a jungle environment or an ice environment is allowed to change the court.

• 2:03:23Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:03:23David Sims?

  By like, kind of like erupting a volcano.

• 2:03:25Speaker 03

  More like baseball.

• 2:03:26David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. Like it's.

• 2:03:27Griffin Newman?

  The home game advantage.

• 2:03:29David Sims?

  You're allowed to kind of like press a button basically and go like volcano mode.

• 2:03:32Griffin Newman?

  Right. Your stadium mirrors your natural habitat, even though all the teams have multiple different species.

• 2:03:39Speaker 03

  That's very baseball.

• 2:03:41Griffin Newman?

  And, and the environment can be unbelievably hostile.

• 2:03:43Speaker 03

  Bring that right field wall in a little bit.

• 2:03:45David Sims?

  That is kind of the, it's.

• 2:03:47Griffin Newman?

  There's like an Arctic team and their court is made of ice. So if you slam down too hard on it, it shatters and then it's just like too fucking bad. You can't walk on that part anymore.

• 2:03:56Speaker 03

  It's good. It's good. I'll be watching. I'm going to get Steelbook.

• 2:03:59David Sims?

  Yeah, I think you should get the Steel.

• 2:04:00Speaker 04

  And I think also a very funny Nick Kroll performance is a Komodo dragon. Yep.

• 2:04:05Griffin Newman?

  I, I own movies I don't like on Steelbook, but they are out of a specific sense of completism. They are something like Fast X where it's like, I own all of them. I hate this one.

• 2:04:16Speaker 03

  So if they make like five more goats, then you'll.

• 2:04:20Griffin Newman?

  I would need to, I would need to opt in wholly on goat at some point for them to eventually get me to buy one I didn't like, if that makes sense. This is much like, yes, me owning several Ghostbusters sequels I don't like.

• 2:04:35Speaker 04

  Okay. Touch Pool. That's fun. We like that sequence. Very funny.

• 2:04:40Speaker 03

  It is a fun sequence. It, it is the one where Dory's logic made the least sense to me of just keep swimming and then they, they.

• 2:04:51Speaker 03

  It didn't matter which part of the touch pool they made it to, you know, they sort of just like end up, I've what they call like poke poke at, what is the part they reach at the end?

• 2:05:00David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:00Speaker 03

  Something or

• 2:05:02David Sims?

  Sure, poking

• 2:05:03Speaker 03

  But it didn't, it didn't, it didn't matter, but it is a fun sequence.

• 2:05:06Griffin Newman?

  And I like the hands thing.

• 2:05:08David Sims?

  Y'all ever done a touch pool recently? I've done that a lot because I've been to the aquarium a lot.

• 2:05:12Speaker 03

  Recently, no, but in my past, David goes to the aquarium like six times a day.

• 2:05:16David Sims?

  I do go. My daughter loves it. I go by myself.

• 2:05:19Speaker 03

  It's fun to go to an aquarium.

• 2:05:20David Sims?

  It's really fun.

• 2:05:20Speaker 03

  Look at all the fish.

• 2:05:22David Sims?

  Yeah. Vibe with the fish. Really do have touch pools and they are kind of like, you know, they're very specific. It is not like in Finding Dory.

• 2:05:28Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:05:29David Sims?

  They're like one animal at a time and we're being gentle with the animals.

• 2:05:32Speaker 03

  That's good.

• 2:05:33Griffin Newman?

  It is funny.

• 2:05:34Speaker 03

  That's progress.

• 2:05:35Griffin Newman?

  I don't think anything nefarious was going on. SeaWorld, obviously a rival of Disney's. It would be in their interest to take SeaWorld down.

• 2:05:42David Sims?

  That's true.

• 2:05:42Griffin Newman?

  But I, after the first movie, there were all these stories of like pet fish sales went way up. But then kids would beg their parents for a fish and then flush it down the toilet because they'd say like all drains lead to the ocean. I'm trying to free them. This movie kind of absolves you of the guilt of being a child going to an aquarium.

• 2:06:02David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, sure. It's like they need that. They need the help.

• 2:06:04Speaker 03

  This is good.

• 2:06:06David Sims?

  I've never been to see, have you guys?

• 2:06:07Speaker 03

  Wait, but the, but the children are scary monsters.

• 2:06:10David Sims?

  That's true.

• 2:06:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:11David Sims?

  I wonder if kids grapple with that.

• 2:06:12Speaker 03

  That's a good point.

• 2:06:13David Sims?

  I mean,

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  Cause it made me feel like I can't ever do a touch pooling.

• 2:06:17Griffin Newman?

  It is interesting that, right? It's like, this is actually a pretty good setup for them. Save the kids. If the kids weren't here, they'd have it made. They like it here.

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:26Griffin Newman?

  The kids are the problem.

• 2:06:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, the kids are scary.

• 2:06:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. So adults should go to aquariums alone and keep their hands to themselves.

• 2:06:33Speaker 03

  That I can agree with.

• 2:06:34Griffin Newman?

  Good.

• 2:06:35Speaker 04

  Uh, since I have been to SeaWorld a handful of times because I would visit with my grandparents in Florida. They lived outside of Orlando.

• 2:06:44Griffin Newman?

  Gatorland was obviously your preference.

• 2:06:46Speaker 04

  For sure. Love Gatorland. Gatorland is this shitty local park near where my grandparents lived. That was just so trashy, but great.

• 2:06:56Griffin Newman?

  Location of

• 2:06:57Speaker 04

  Also problematic.

• 2:06:58Griffin Newman?

  Location of the final third act, action set piece in Bad Boys, uh, Ride or Die?

• 2:07:05Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:07:06Griffin Newman?

  The fourth Bad Boys ends at Gatorland.

• 2:07:08Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:07:09David Sims?

  It's a lot of fun.

• 2:07:10Speaker 03

  But um.

• 2:07:11Speaker 04

  With the mega gator.

• 2:07:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:13Speaker 04

  Fun. I mean, the whale show was cool. They splash you.

• 2:07:17David Sims?

  Shamu.

• 2:07:18Speaker 04

  If you're in the splash zone.

• 2:07:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:07:19Speaker 04

  Like that.

• 2:07:20Griffin Newman?

  It is so funny that in the 90s, one whale just became a major celebrity.

• 2:07:26David Sims?

  Shamu.

• 2:07:26Griffin Newman?

  Like a household name.

• 2:07:28David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:28Griffin Newman?

  And every SeaWorld location was like, yeah, yeah, this is the one.

• 2:07:31David Sims?

  Yeah, we got Shamu too.

• 2:07:32Griffin Newman?

  We got Shamu.

• 2:07:33David Sims?

  You like Shamu? He's Shamu.

• 2:07:34Griffin Newman?

  This is the guy. This is that guy from the commercials and the movies and everything.

• 2:07:38David Sims?

  Is Shamu alive?

• 2:07:40Griffin Newman?

  No. Well, which one?

• 2:07:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, the original one is.

• 2:07:43Speaker 03

  Shamu might have, uh.

• 2:07:45David Sims?

  Yeah, she died in August 1971.

• 2:07:48Speaker 03

  Whoa, so even before I was.

• 2:07:50Griffin Newman?

  Right. Like Shamu died 25 years before Free Willy.

• 2:07:54Speaker 03

  But then how did I hear so much about Shamu?

• 2:07:57Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:07:58Speaker 04

  It's a very common name in the whale community.

• 2:08:02Griffin Newman?

  Can we pit?

• 2:08:03David Sims?

  Wait, should I do my impression of the whale?

• 2:08:04Griffin Newman?

  Podcast? Oh, oh, yes.

• 2:08:05Speaker 03

  Oh, I do. I've never seen it.

• 2:08:07Griffin Newman?

  Have you never seen it? See, I always try to get a picture and I can't get it fast enough.

• 2:08:16Speaker 04

  Did you get it? Come on.

• 2:08:18Griffin Newman?

  I think so. My angle's not great.

• 2:08:20Speaker 04

  Damn it.

• 2:08:23Griffin Newman?

  It's the microphone arm. Ben, can you move the microphone arm before he? Oh, oh, fuck. David pushed it on himself, but then he's smiling. He's lost it.

• 2:08:30Speaker 04

  Damn it. I think I got one.

• 2:08:31Griffin Newman?

  I got, I think I got.

• 2:08:33Speaker 04

  The effort of moving the arm took him out of it.

• 2:08:35Griffin Newman?

  It did. This is the problem.

• 2:08:36David Sims?

  The whole thing with about it, about me doing my whale impression, my impression of Brendan Fraser, the poster for the movie The Whale, is you, you really have to like let your mind go blank.

• 2:08:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:45David Sims?

  Cause that's what he looks like on the poster.

• 2:08:47Griffin Newman?

  Zach, you're a tremendous actor.

• 2:08:49Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:08:50Griffin Newman?

  And you just saw David transform in front of you.

• 2:08:52Speaker 03

  I did.

• 2:08:52Griffin Newman?

  But he's not classically trained.

• 2:08:55David Sims?

  No.

• 2:08:55Griffin Newman?

  So it's all very, it's a precarious process. It's very delicate.

• 2:08:59Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah.

• 2:08:59Griffin Newman?

  The trance can be broken very easily. You see him drop into it so quickly.

• 2:09:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:04David Sims?

  Have you seen Brendan Fraser, The Whale?

• 2:09:06Speaker 03

  I have not. I've heard it described in detail on 70 episodes of Doughboys.

• 2:09:11David Sims?

  I was about to say, 70, 70 almost seems low.

• 2:09:14Griffin Newman?

  Basically syndicated on Doughboys at this point.

• 2:09:17Speaker 03

  But no, I have not watched.

• 2:09:19David Sims?

  Doughboys, you could just sort of like piece together the entire movie through all of the various times.

• 2:09:25Speaker 03

  You know what's funny? It's a movie I was probably never going to watch.

• 2:09:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:28Speaker 03

  But when I heard he floats at the end, that was really what, what sold me on. I won't, I won't be.

• 2:09:33David Sims?

  He, I did out loud go, ah, get the fuck out. You know, like when that happened, I was like, wait. Wait a second.

• 2:09:39Griffin Newman?

  I'm sure.

• 2:09:39David Sims?

  I was not like.

• 2:09:41Griffin Newman?

  I'm sure I've shared this anecdote before, but that happened and I went.

• 2:09:44David Sims?

  Yep.

• 2:09:45Griffin Newman?

  And then I heard a sound behind me and I looked and the man sitting directly behind me was like sobbing and convulsing.

• 2:09:51David Sims?

  I can't, I.

• 2:09:52Speaker 03

  I, I am interested in developing a live action version of the whale.

• 2:09:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:57David Sims?

  That implies it's a cartoon.

• 2:09:59Speaker 03

  No, we'll just do it without prosthetics.

• 2:10:02David Sims?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:10:03Speaker 03

  So we'll just sort of, you know, live action it up.

• 2:10:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:07Speaker 03

  But I'm, that's, we're in talks for that.

• 2:10:09Griffin Newman?

  We're in talks.

• 2:10:09David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 2:10:10Griffin Newman?

  It is funny, the way the Doughboys talk about the whale, you could go, well, they're reducing it to like five things. The jerking off, the meatball sub, the essay.

• 2:10:20Speaker 03

  That's all I know.

• 2:10:21David Sims?

  That's kind of the fucking movie.

• 2:10:22Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing. You'd imagine like, well, they're being really kind of mean to it. And if you watch it, those things are.

• 2:10:27David Sims?

  Those are like the A plots, like the meatball subs.

• 2:10:30Griffin Newman?

  Really? The whole fucking thing is this? They read the essay like 10 times.

• 2:10:35David Sims?

  They keep going back to that damn essay. So the movie is called The Whale because the essay is about movie dick. That is why it's called that.

• 2:10:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. David, the title does not refer to him and his body.

• 2:10:43David Sims?

  Of course.

• 2:10:44Griffin Newman?

  It refers to the essay. And if you thought it referred to him, you're the judgmental one and maybe look in a mirror. Shame on you, Zach.

• 2:10:53David Sims?

  What do you make of the fact that when Dory, I'm bringing us back to the end of this movie, to the final act?

• 2:10:58Griffin Newman?

  This movie does have whales in it.

• 2:11:00David Sims?

  Sort of learns that her parents did, you know, escaped to search for her and never came back, leading Dory to think that they are dead. And Dory kind of, it's not like she tries to kill herself. It's just kind of like throw herself. I guess it's like.

• 2:11:16Griffin Newman?

  She's despondent.

• 2:11:16David Sims?

  She's despondent and it's like, what? Like, it's like Hank scoops her up and then I guess he drops her. She doesn't, it's not like she throws herself out of the coffee pot or whatever, right? But there is that kind of quite shocking or not even, but like exciting moment where you're like sort of Dory eye view of like crashing out of the.

• 2:11:36David Sims?

  Pot and like rolling down the drain. I don't know. It's effective.

• 2:11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, this is another like sort of

• 2:11:43David Sims?

  This movie like it has like two kind of darkish moments before it's finally like they're alive and everything's fine. And they found her and everyone's gonna be okay.

• 2:11:50Speaker 04

  I'm rewatching it. The octopus scoops up Dory and gets caught and drops

• 2:11:54David Sims?

  Yeah, that's what it is. Right. Cause he like, he's like, where are the others? And she's like, I don't know. My parents are dead. And then, right. Yeah.

• 2:12:01Griffin Newman?

  When they were supposed to be affected with the same level of memory loss, she was gonna find them like halfway through. Because finding them wouldn't solve stuff because they all keep forgetting each other. And now it's like, how do we save all three of them? Right. Really annoying. But then I think they end up in this position where they're like, well, fuck. Then what is the explanation for why they haven't found her? They land on a good thing of they were trusting she would make it back to them.

• 2:12:26David Sims?

  I think it makes sense that they're like, we'll just wait here.

• 2:12:29Griffin Newman?

  Stay in one place.

• 2:12:30David Sims?

  Right. And we'll just keep building a map.

• 2:12:31Speaker 03

  I don't know if that was the healthiest choice, but it was effective.

• 2:12:35David Sims?

  It's a little bleak if you think about it too hard.

• 2:12:38Speaker 03

  Because they're completely isolated. They're not near any other living creatures.

• 2:12:43David Sims?

  Nope.

• 2:12:43Speaker 03

  They, it seems to be they're living in the dark.

• 2:12:46Griffin Newman?

  You might want to build a support network of other people who can spread the word.

• 2:12:49David Sims?

  It's also, it is another fish family with one child. You know what I mean? After like finding Nemo goes to pains to be like, look, the rest of the eggs got eaten. This is an unusual situation because it is true that like fish generally have like clutches in their own.

• 2:13:05Griffin Newman?

  I also think that it works largely because this is where they really get their fucking money worth out of Diane Keaton.

• 2:13:16David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:13:16Griffin Newman?

  Their SAG scale, but buy a house with the residuals a year later. Money out of Diane Keaton where she, I think, really dramatically sells the like, we just trusted you would find us and you did. To make it a moment of triumph of like, look at you, you did it. I assume that's where you and your wife start sobbing. It is very effective shit.

• 2:13:38David Sims?

  It's just, you know, like the fundamental thing that I think is very affecting to watch as a parent is when you see Dory as a child suffering from memory loss, it feels much more like profoundly awful, which is the, of course, the drama of the, you know, the flashbacks and all that.

• 2:13:53Griffin Newman?

  But the young Dory is much more self-conscious about it and worried about it.

• 2:13:57David Sims?

  And you're anxious about it and all that. Right. Right. And then, yeah, no, just the catharsis. Yeah. Just like, dude, though, like all the, you know, TikTok's always serving to me like, watch, you know, the child see his soldier dad returning from the airport and it's just within one second, I am just like on the edge of, you know, like it'll always.

• 2:14:18Griffin Newman?

  You watch that now and after two seconds, the child like lifts up the dad and throws him through a wall and you're like, this is AI. Wolford Brimley starts like puking oatmeal. Have you seen these? There's some account I keep seeing where I'm just like, this is another Wolford Brimley interview from Larry King. I'd love to watch this. And then after three seconds, he starts like projectile vomiting, Quaker oats.

• 2:14:43David Sims?

  I can't even search for that because I don't want the algorithm. It's like when.

• 2:14:47Speaker 03

  You watch one of those, you're cooked.

• 2:14:49David Sims?

  Emma Stefanski, friend of the show was like, do you know about Hot Hagrid? And I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, Hot Hagrid. And I Googled it. And it was like, there was a whole TikTok subculture. People were like horny for Hagrid. But then of course, immediately, my phone was like, oh, you like that? You want as much of that as we can give you.

• 2:15:07Speaker 03

  This might be the only opportunity I ever have to tell this story. It's related to Hot Hagrid.

• 2:15:12Griffin Newman?

  Okay, go on.

• 2:15:13Speaker 03

  Which is, I, I, I don't remember how it came up, but I do remember that during shooting season one of Severance, I did tell John Turturro that people want to fuck Shrek.

• 2:15:28Speaker 03

  And it was fairly early in the season and I remember him sort of being like, okay. And that was just like the end of the conversation.

• 2:15:37David Sims?

  My impression of of making the show, especially the way like, I guess you would do the COVID for it's like, you guys are in that set for like forever.

• 2:15:45Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 2:15:46David Sims?

  Like for so long. It's just you're at these consoles.

• 2:15:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we.

• 2:15:49David Sims?

  Next to each other.

• 2:15:50Speaker 03

  We ultimately did get quite close and I bet if I told him about it now, the conversation would go differently.

• 2:15:56David Sims?

  I don't want to know more.

• 2:15:56Speaker 03

  Right. But this was, it was probably in the first two weeks of shooting.

• 2:16:00David Sims?

  I'm amazed he knew about Shrek. I guess Shrek's everywhere.

• 2:16:03Griffin Newman?

  All our kind of elder statesmen Italians of the screen and stage are learning about Shrek later in life.

• 2:16:10David Sims?

  Right, of course, Pacino is now.

• 2:16:12Griffin Newman?

  Pacino's got the phone case.

• 2:16:13Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:16:13Griffin Newman?

  Turturro knows that people want to give it to him.

• 2:16:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, he knows now.

• 2:16:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:17David Sims?

  How, I mean, how many voices has Turturro done?

• 2:16:21Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, he's Francesco Bernoulli in Cars 2.

• 2:16:24David Sims?

  Ah.

• 2:16:25Griffin Newman?

  I think I like to mention a lot.

• 2:16:26Speaker 03

  Is he in any of the Hotel Transylvanias?

• 2:16:28Griffin Newman?

  He's not, and that's actually a shame, especially considering how close he is in the Happy Madison.

• 2:16:32David Sims?

  He was in Del Toro's Pinocchio.

• 2:16:34Griffin Newman?

  Who do you voice?

• 2:16:35David Sims?

  The Torre. I don't know.

• 2:16:37Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:16:37David Sims?

  I saw it one time.

• 2:16:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:38David Sims?

  But yeah, I think he needs to do a little bit more.

• 2:16:40Griffin Newman?

  He, Cars 2 sucks and is for losers and babies, and even babies should be embarrassed that they like it. It is one of the most insane movies ever made. I tried to give it another watch reset. I did watch it through, but I was like, will I have any perverse appreciation for just how insane it is now? And it still is more annoying than interesting to me, even with all of its weirdness. Turturro's very good in it.

• 2:17:03David Sims?

  He's like a Formula One car or whatever.

• 2:17:05Griffin Newman?

  He's a Formula One car who's really like haughty.

• 2:17:08Speaker 03

  I got a.

• 2:17:10David Sims?

  That's a slam dunk for him.

• 2:17:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:12David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  I do, I do want to say one more thing about Finding Dory.

• 2:17:17David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:17:17Speaker 03

  My favorite part of the movie, which we've maybe briefly touched on or whatever, it's sort of happening at this part of the film, is the moment where it starts with Nemo and Marlin when they're stuck in the fountain. And yes, in the gift shop, and they start saying, what would Dory do? And then they they reunite with her and they tell her that. And then for the rest of the movie, Dory starts saying, what would I do? And I found that quite affecting and very like, because I do think it's something, I think people who have a variety of issues.

• 2:17:53David Sims?

  It's really hard to have confidence in yourself when you're like dealing with that kind of stuff. And so I think this idea of just like trusting in yourself and almost like making yourself a, a like heroic figure to, to look up to, I thought was really kind of beautiful, honestly.

• 2:18:11Griffin Newman?

  I also, I think, I think what it expresses very well is that Marlin is willingly bringing Dory into his family and taking on responsibility for her, but is clearly burdening him with a tremendous amount of stress. And more than being like neurotic around Nemo, he's clearly just like, fuck, I'm like on the clock at all times, making sure Dory doesn't kill herself. And what Nemo like teaches him in that moment of like, oh, right, she is self-sufficient.

• 2:18:38David Sims?

  And she helped you fucking find me.

• 2:18:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:18:41David Sims?

  My lame ass.

• 2:18:43Griffin Newman?

  Not that he doesn't want to still help her.

• 2:18:47David Sims?

  Yeah, no, I know, I know.

• 2:18:48Griffin Newman?

  I think, cause there's that scene where he's like yelling at her that is genuinely effective where you're like, he's being an asshole and he's not being an asshole in the way he is in the first movie of you're being annoying.

• 2:18:59David Sims?

  No.

• 2:18:59Griffin Newman?

  He's being an asshole because it feels like his weight.

• 2:19:03David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:19:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:04David Sims?

  Right. It's, it's, it's appropriate. Marlin is no fun in this movie, but you know, it all, it all lines up with the characterization.

• 2:19:11Speaker 04

  Hey, it's also nice when Dory's parents point out that Dory was able to eventually find.

• 2:19:17Griffin Newman?

  That's what I said.

• 2:19:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:19:18Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:19:19Speaker 04

  It's like a really, it's a nice win for Dory.

• 2:19:22Griffin Newman?

  Now, I was texting with JJ, our researcher about this last night.

• 2:19:26David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:19:27Griffin Newman?

  And.

• 2:19:27Speaker 04

  What's his status?

• 2:19:31David Sims?

  I don't know. He took a long time to tell us that like a roof guy was coming to his house and I was not happy. I really wanted to know that kind of information right away.

• 2:19:38Griffin Newman?

  We texted him something.

• 2:19:39David Sims?

  He like, he thumbs ups a text hours later, like that I had said.

• 2:19:43Griffin Newman?

  And then said like, sorry, I thought I had thumbs up that earlier, but my roof guy was here to look at the roof. And I said, thank you so much for filling us in. JJ was really worried.

• 2:19:53David Sims?

  Yeah. It was like, you know, you really, you gotta be, keep me more updated.

• 2:19:57Speaker 04

  This is the first I'm hearing of it.

• 2:19:58David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:59Griffin Newman?

  That's crazy that he didn't even text you about it.

• 2:20:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:20:03Speaker 03

  Yet to mention it.

• 2:20:03Griffin Newman?

  He, I mean, we might have to fire him.

• 2:20:05David Sims?

  Cause I feel like every time it hails in Wisconsin, JJ's up my ass being like, more hail. And I'm like, all right. And yet I don't even hear what's happened to the roof.

• 2:20:13Griffin Newman?

  He sent us a series of texts about going to the local university library to take out a bunch of books on Martin Scorsese to start researching for our next mini series and was texting us about how difficult it was for him to bike home in the rain with all the books. And we just necked him so fucking hard. We were like, huh, JJ, those books look pretty fucking dry to me.

• 2:20:36David Sims?

  Sent a picture of a stack and I was like, they don't look wet.

• 2:20:39Griffin Newman?

  I don't see a single droplet.

• 2:20:43Griffin Newman?

  Now we sound like assholes. What I was gonna say is that JJ, while prepping this dossier, texted me and said, are you more pro on Dory than Sims? And I was, I think we're both pretty pro. And he was saying like, good. I just want to make sure it's a positive episode. And I said, yeah, I think the first 15, 20 minutes suck. Basically everything from when they get to the marine institute on rules. And he said, yeah, that's right. And it like rules, rules, IMO. And then I think perhaps the most dead on profound point that JJ has ever made in his years of working for this show.

• 2:21:13David Sims?

  Better prevent him from the roof stuff.

• 2:21:14Griffin Newman?

  There's an octopus driving a truck. What the hell else do you want?

• 2:21:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, that part rules.

• 2:21:20Griffin Newman?

  It is the moment where I was like, Stanton's still got the fucking magic and the chaos in him of just the audacity of being like, you know what I'm gonna try to do? I'm gonna try to construct an actual proper action sequence that can be driven by the fish that is affecting the human world, that is pushing further than like, you know, the, the strain of the first movie is if the fish swim down, it'll turn over the boat, right?

• 2:21:46David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. Sure. I mean, it reminds me of Toy Story.

• 2:21:49Griffin Newman?

  That's what I love.

• 2:21:49David Sims?

  It's kind of just like, what if these guys were in our world? What's the craziest thing that they might be able to achieve? You know, like?

• 2:21:56Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:21:57David Sims?

  Could these toys make drive a car?

• 2:21:59Griffin Newman?

  And it's, it's a push. It's heightened, but it feels similarly affected by a logic of fucking once a year. We'll hear some insane story of a thing like this that happens. If not this crazy, you know?

• 2:22:12Speaker 03

  I saw a video recently of a dog honking a horn over and over.

• 2:22:15Griffin Newman?

  This is the thing. There's always some story of like.

• 2:22:18Speaker 03

  It's basically the same thing that happened.

• 2:22:20Griffin Newman?

  Right. A bear walked into a 7-Eleven and worked a shift and you're like, what? And then you watch the video and you're like, this rules.

• 2:22:26David Sims?

  There he goes.

• 2:22:27Griffin Newman?

  I feel good about the world for one hour. I just think the sequence is excellent and it feels like he keeps heightening how far you think it could possibly go. Instraining credibility. And it's silly, but it, there is a really good worked out internal logic of, like you said, in a Toy Story way, like how much can they actually affect things?

• 2:22:47Speaker 03

  And we've already seen them sort of do a dress rehearsal with the stroller.

• 2:22:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:22:51Speaker 03

  So it's like you, you kind of are just bought into like this octopus can, can move. He, he knows what he's doing, you know?

• 2:22:57Griffin Newman?

  And then weaponizing the otters is great. I feel like you want to talk about the otters, Ben.

• 2:23:02David Sims?

  Who doesn't love an otter?

• 2:23:03Speaker 03

  I was just trying to move us along, but yeah, who doesn't love an otter? They're cute.

• 2:23:07David Sims?

  I'm with you, man. Let's wrap up Finding Dory. I don't remember what else happens anyway.

• 2:23:10Speaker 04

  What's the song when the truck is like slow motion?

• 2:23:14Griffin Newman?

  Isn't it?

• 2:23:15Speaker 04

  Good world? I can't remember.

• 2:23:17Griffin Newman?

  Um, yeah. The uncredit song in this is unforgettable, which is clever after the first one has.

• 2:23:23Speaker 03

  That was nice.

• 2:23:24Griffin Newman?

  Beyond the sea, of course.

• 2:23:25Speaker 03

  They, they have, there's the closing little moment with Marlin and Dory looking out over the, the beautiful.

• 2:23:32David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:33Speaker 03

  They're, they're.

• 2:23:34David Sims?

  Landscape. Right. Coral neighborhood.

• 2:23:37Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:23:37David Sims?

  Yep, totally.

• 2:23:39Griffin Newman?

  But just, yeah, the serenity of that moment of them all sort of the peace and the comfort in their families.

• 2:23:45David Sims?

  It's what a wonderful world. It's Louis Armstrong.

• 2:23:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:47David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:51Speaker 03

  That's the song. On my way over here, I was singing the song, uh, can you find me Dory?

• 2:24:01David Sims?

  So that of course.

• 2:24:02Speaker 03

  Could have used that.

• 2:24:03David Sims?

  That is Creed's Can You Take Me Higher?

• 2:24:05Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:24:06David Sims?

  Right? Yes. Okay.

• 2:24:06Speaker 03

  But first it I just was, I couldn't stop doing it.

• 2:24:11David Sims?

  Ken, now I'm gonna be doing.

• 2:24:13Griffin Newman?

  Now I'm gonna be doing.

• 2:24:14Speaker 03

  It's beautiful.

• 2:24:15Griffin Newman?

  Now, can we throw down the gauntlet for the Can You Find Me Dory challenge? So you were doing this walking over here?

• 2:24:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:21Griffin Newman?

  Listeners, send us a video of you walking in public singing Can You Find Me Dory?

• 2:24:27David Sims?

  Can you?

• 2:24:28Griffin Newman?

  But you have to do it in public while commuting.

• 2:24:32David Sims?

  Do we want a third Dory Nemo? You know, they, they, the doctor recently kind of said like, hey, it's a big ocean. Like he kind of hinted at it of like, we're thinking of ideas like blah, blah, blah. And as you say, Ellen went from I've retired from public life to I guess I'm making a short film in which I star as Dory.

• 2:24:49Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:24:50David Sims?

  So like she's cracking the door.

• 2:24:51Speaker 03

  It feels like something is.

• 2:24:52David Sims?

  Albert Brooks is old.

• 2:24:54Griffin Newman?

  He's old.

• 2:24:54David Sims?

  But he was recently in a film.

• 2:24:55Speaker 03

  Perfect world, Marlon. I do, I think it's such a rich world where like, it doesn't have to be about even these char- like.

• 2:25:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:07Speaker 03

  They, they do such great world building with each like the turtles and the sharks and the stingrays. And like, I just would watch any, any more ocean life.

• 2:25:17David Sims?

  It does, it do be looking good if we're under the sea.

• 2:25:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I will say, and this is just like a personal preference thing. The technology, the leap between the first film and the second film is obviously huge. Not to mention now they basically have unlimited budgets. These movies are so profitable. These characters are so valuable.

• 2:25:36David Sims?

  Sequels, right?

• 2:25:37Griffin Newman?

  Can kind of. That they're truly like, just send us the bill when it's done. It doesn't matter how much it fucking costs. It helps us as a company to have Dory back out there. I was talking a lot in the episode of the first film about all the cheats in that movie of how they pull off the depth and the texture and the elements of the ocean and how a lot of it is kind of like the CGI version of old stagecraft where that movie feels a little bit more like an Archer's film and it's sort of representational way of capturing that. And this, you're just like, they have all the money and they have all the technology and they could just render everything perfectly. Uh, it does look beautiful, but I miss the sort of, I don't know, the movie magic of the first one.

• 2:26:17Speaker 03

  Maybe we do a wicked style reclaiming of Gerald.

• 2:26:21Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Gerald for good.

• 2:26:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. We kind of learned that in fact Gerald was right all along.

• 2:26:28Griffin Newman?

  He was a genius.

• 2:26:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Stan in that Entertainment Weekly article had this quote that has, I've seen the internet immediately run with misinterpreting as Toy Story 5 director announces Toy Story 6 and 7.

• 2:26:43David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:26:44Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's been running this as a headline. What he said basically was-

• 2:26:47David Sims?

  He said 6, 7 and he did his hands like this, right?

• 2:26:51Griffin Newman?

  And everyone laughed and Disney started like doing projections, right? No, he was talking about how they came to him and said, "Do you have any ideas for 5?" And he started noodling on it. He wasn't planning to direct it. And then he really liked the idea, said, "We'll start writing it, start directing it, whatever." And he said, "You know, it's this whole thing of, we had always been so concerned was 3, the definitive ending, and then when we opened ourselves up to, that's Andy's story, there are other things you can do, we keep thinking the series is ending." And he said something to the like, sort of effect of, "You sit down for two hours and start doing the mental exercise about other toys and what their lives would be, and immediately you'd just come up with ideas for two more movies."

• 2:27:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:27:34Griffin Newman?

  He was basically like-

• 2:27:35David Sims?

  Right, and everyone just took that as, "They have an idea for two more movies that will exist."

• 2:27:38Griffin Newman?

  Right, and he was just sort of saying, and I think this is his superpower, that, you know, Toy Story 4 was notoriously a disaster forever, that they couldn't crack. It was the one movie they kept pushing back, even though they had all these big money deals, because they were like, "We don't have it." And then they finally went to him, post Finding Dorian, said, "Do you have anything?" And he was like, "What about this?" And they were like, "Fuck, that's good." And then he took over kind of co-writing the movie. I think he's the guy who's really smart about locating something that feels kind of organic, that is just sitting there in the world that you've developed, and what the human story is there, the emotional story that you can like explode out of that.

• 2:28:20Griffin Newman?

  I dread the notion of them announcing something literally like Finding Marlin, or Nemo's now grown up and his child goes missing. But I'm like, if they could come up with an idea that's just, sit down and think about other things that could happen in the ocean with fish, even if it is led by these characters, I just think you can't do, since this movie is the flip, flipping it again.

• 2:28:44Speaker 03

  I agree. I don't think it needs to be Finding anyone.

• 2:28:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:28:46David Sims?

  Do you know who does flip? Flipper.

• 2:28:48Griffin Newman?

  Flipper flips, bring Flipper in.

• 2:28:50Speaker 03

  Flipper hasn't worked in a while.

• 2:28:51David Sims?

  Yeah, well, again, there's some problematic-

• 2:28:53Griffin Newman?

  He was on the Shitty Men and Media list.

• 2:28:57David Sims?

  This film was supposed to come out Thanksgiving 2015. They instead decided to give that to The Good Dinosaur.

• 2:29:04Griffin Newman?

  I had a great meal that year.

• 2:29:10David Sims?

  2015 Thanksgiving.

• 2:29:11Griffin Newman?

  It was like nobody beats the Zach.

• 2:29:14Speaker 03

  It would have been good to pair with Dory.

• 2:29:17Griffin Newman?

  The only way that meal could have been better.

• 2:29:19David Sims?

  Thing missing is instead you had to pair with The Good Dinosaur.

• 2:29:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:23David Sims?

  Good Dinosaur obviously didn't do very well.

• 2:29:25Griffin Newman?

  That was notably one of the first.

• 2:29:28David Sims?

  It was the first Pixar movie to lose money.

• 2:29:29Speaker 03

  I think that was the first Pixar movie to ever confuse me.

• 2:29:32Griffin Newman?

  It sucks.

• 2:29:33David Sims?

  Confusing.

• 2:29:34Speaker 03

  I remember watching, I watched the whole thing as an adult and I was just like, I don't know what is happening.

• 2:29:41Griffin Newman?

  It's also, it's, it's the first one where you're like, you guys never cracked.

• 2:29:45David Sims?

  Yeah, you guys have released this film because you had to, but you did not know what it was.

• 2:29:50Griffin Newman?

  Cars two sucks, but it is like poorly conceived. And then it is a successfully executed version of their stupid idea. Good Dinosaur, you're like, where did this start? What did you think you were making? Can any of you take pride in what you've released now? I was going to say though, that was the first year that they released two.

• 2:30:13David Sims?

  In 2015.

• 2:30:14Griffin Newman?

  I think it was Inside Out and Good Dinosaur in the same year. So it was sort of like Inside Out covered The Good Dinosaur's losses.

• 2:30:21David Sims?

  So well, right, exactly.

• 2:30:22Griffin Newman?

  And I think they flipped Finding Dory and Good Dinosaur because they were like, Dory is a guaranteed hit. Good Dinosaur is a guaranteed flop. Can we sandwich it with the flop in between successes?

• 2:30:35David Sims?

  Right. So Dory comes out June 2016. It opens $135 million at the domestic box office, which is an animated movie record at the time, beating Shrek the third. Which had held the record for a decade.

• 2:30:48Griffin Newman?

  Zach just gave me a very funny look.

• 2:30:50David Sims?

  Just gave John Turturro a look. Probably that much.

• 2:30:53Griffin Newman?

  His majesty.

• 2:30:54David Sims?

  Hey, sex sells.

• 2:30:59David Sims?

  It makes close to $500 million domestic. It makes a billion dollars worldwide. Only the second Pixar movie to do that after Toy Story three. It was stopped by the Academy Awards, as I pointed out. And Stanton does not go on to make another animated movie until Toy Story five, right?

• 2:31:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes, we'll talk about it in the next episode, but he very much was like.

• 2:31:23David Sims?

  TV.

• 2:31:24Griffin Newman?

  Well, he was like, I, the John Carter thing wasn't a one off. I want to be directing live action. And what follows is like eight years of him signing on for a bunch of things.

• 2:31:39Griffin Newman?

  Attaching himself to blacklist scripts, movies set up at various points in time that don't happen. And directing a tremendous amount of TV.

• 2:31:46David Sims?

  He did a fair amount of TV. He directs two episodes of Stranger Things, an episode of Better Call Saul, an episode of Legion, an episode of Tales From the Loop. Remember that one? Four episodes of the excellent show For All Mankind, including one of its best ever episodes, in my opinion.

• 2:32:00Griffin Newman?

  His Better Call Saul episode is also really excellent, I will say.

• 2:32:03David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. And one episode of the well remembered Netflix show Third Body Problem.

• 2:32:09Griffin Newman?

  But he's also, he's a consulting producer on that.

• 2:32:12David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:32:12Griffin Newman?

  And he was a consulting producer.

• 2:32:13Speaker 03

  There's more of that coming.

• 2:32:14David Sims?

  There is, by, by obligation.

• 2:32:17Griffin Newman?

  They're gonna find a fourth body.

• 2:32:18David Sims?

  I mean, look, those books are, I've, I've read them all. I love them so much. They're the greatest.

• 2:32:23Griffin Newman?

  Great books.

• 2:32:24David Sims?

  They're the greatest books ever. And you read them and you're like, anyone who thinks that they could adapt this is, is a fool. Like, this is the most unadaptable shit in the world. It has like 400 characters, most of whom are Chinese. Like, and so you just have to immediately start like messing with it, which is what the show did.

• 2:32:42Griffin Newman?

  Over, over a massive time scale.

• 2:32:45David Sims?

  Millennia.

• 2:32:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:46David Sims?

  And like, and like, you read the first book and you're like, wow, that's hard. You read the third book, you're like, that makes the first book look like fucking Where's Spot? Like, that makes the first book look like a cardboard book for children. Anyway, they're so good. I've never watched the show.

• 2:32:59Griffin Newman?

  He also a consulting producer and writer on Obi-Wan, a show I recently watched and think is quite terrible.

• 2:33:06David Sims?

  Not very good.

• 2:33:07Griffin Newman?

  But felt like a very much, I would imagine.

• 2:33:10David Sims?

  Obi-Wan was just a swing and miss in the dirt. Like, the ball is nowhere near them. And they're like, no, we can get, and it's just not even close.

• 2:33:18Griffin Newman?

  I just find it interesting. He didn't direct any episodes of it. It's not like he was the main creator. I have to imagine that was a play at that moment when suddenly it was like Star Wars production was ramping way up. They're gonna make a bunch of shows. Is this a way to sort of get my foot?

• 2:33:33David Sims?

  Get my foot in there. Maybe I do a different Star Wars thing, or I don't know. Deborah Chow was the director of that entire season.

• 2:33:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:33:39David Sims?

  She did it all.

• 2:33:40Griffin Newman?

  But instead, he does not make another live action film until 2026, when of course, he released In the Blink of an Eye. Zach, do you know that Andrew Stanton released a live action movie on Hulu months ago?

• 2:33:52Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:33:54Griffin Newman?

  And months from now.

• 2:33:54Speaker 03

  I haven't heard of it.

• 2:33:56David Sims?

  Kate McKinnon is the star of it.

• 2:33:57Griffin Newman?

  Rashida Jones, David Diggs. And very soon, Toy Story 5 will be released with him as the director.

• 2:34:05Speaker 03

  That one's gonna do pretty well.

• 2:34:06Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna do pretty well. He has once again replicated the same post John Carter thing of, you guys forgot I have another get out of jail free card.

• 2:34:14David Sims?

  By the time this is out, Toy Story 5 has come out. So one assumes, unless it tried to like assassinate the president at a dinner or something, it did great. Like, I don't know what might happen in the meantime to derail Toy Story 5. It seems like it's on a good.

• 2:34:29Speaker 03

  I'll say, I have a, I have a, a Woody email dump that I've been sitting on.

• 2:34:39David Sims?

  Woody might have gone to an island, okay?

• 2:34:41Griffin Newman?

  Woody logs?

• 2:34:42David Sims?

  He might have flown on a certain express.

• 2:34:45Griffin Newman?

  Pizza Planet logs?

• 2:34:48David Sims?

  Yeah, Pizza Planet actually used to be called Comet Pizza. Let's, let's talk about it.

• 2:34:53Griffin Newman?

  It is, uh, is there anything that could happen that would prevent that movie from making like a billion dollars?

• 2:35:01David Sims?

  I don't know. I mean, I remember everyone felt that way about Toy Story four.

• 2:35:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:35:05David Sims?

  And then it's slightly under delivered box office wise, although in the end of the day, it made a ton of money.

• 2:35:10Griffin Newman?

  I was, I was wrong when we were trying to talk about the box office and whatever episode it was. It basically ended up at the exact same number as three.

• 2:35:19David Sims?

  Right. Just many years later.

• 2:35:21Griffin Newman?

  But it was also post the sort of Finding Nemo, Finding Dory had such a big.

• 2:35:26David Sims?

  And Incredibles two.

• 2:35:27Griffin Newman?

  Incredibles two had such a big jump. The Despicable Me movies were like rising on each one that people assumed, well, three was so big, four will be even bigger. And the answer is that like, three is about as big as a movie can get. Ditto for the ceiling might've been established, but it's also incredibly high.

• 2:35:45David Sims?

  Now, speaking of box office, it's June 17th, 2016.

• 2:35:48Griffin Newman?

  Here we go. Yep.

• 2:35:49David Sims?

  Finding Dory's opening number one. Number two is an action comedy.

• 2:35:53Griffin Newman?

  So is this Central Intelligence?

• 2:35:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:56Griffin Newman?

  Fucked it up by looking at the, the rest of the summer lineup a little bit, but I don't know what specifically.

• 2:36:00David Sims?

  The Rock, he big.

• 2:36:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:36:02David Sims?

  Kevin Hart, not so big. What if they were in a movie?

• 2:36:05Griffin Newman?

  You're smiling. What are your thoughts?

• 2:36:06Speaker 03

  Of course I love that movie.

• 2:36:08David Sims?

  Now I remember I saw that film at the pavilion, which is now the Nighthawk Prospect Park, but it was in the dying days of the pavilion. I had to see it to review it and I like missed whatever screen. They were like, the screening is, uh, you just missed it. You know, like one of those things. And I watched it and like, you know, probably like a freezing cold theater with like a garbage bag for a blanket or whatever. And, uh, I remember when The Rock was young, he was like, he's kind of like a nerd. He was like a chubby nerd.

• 2:36:33Griffin Newman?

  He's very overweight. The CGI him on.

• 2:36:36David Sims?

  CGI his face onto like a CGI body.

• 2:36:39Griffin Newman?

  It's terrible looking.

• 2:36:40Speaker 03

  And I'm going to do a live action remake of that as well.

• 2:36:43Griffin Newman?

  Good.

• 2:36:45David Sims?

  I love when you say live action remake of a movie that is largely live action.

• 2:36:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm just doing it. But I'm just doing the fat for real.

• 2:36:53David Sims?

  Does do this.

• 2:36:54Speaker 03

  Oh, natural. Right, right. God. Yeah. And there's a lot of it.

• 2:36:59David Sims?

  Don't remember much else about that movie.

• 2:37:01Speaker 03

  I'm just a huge, I'm a Kevin Hart mark. Like, anything he makes.

• 2:37:04David Sims?

  Back then especially.

• 2:37:06Speaker 03

  Makes me laugh. I laugh at.

• 2:37:07David Sims?

  He could make you laugh.

• 2:37:08Speaker 03

  Funny.

• 2:37:09Griffin Newman?

  I think The Rock is funny in that as well.

• 2:37:12David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:12Griffin Newman?

  I don't like that movie, but they're both good.

• 2:37:14David Sims?

  They're locked in. The plot is whatever. It was just one of those things where they were like, rock big, heart small, make a poster.

• 2:37:21Griffin Newman?

  Well.

• 2:37:21David Sims?

  We'll write the script later.

• 2:37:22Griffin Newman?

  Do you know what the tagline was for the film?

• 2:37:23David Sims?

  Yes, I do, because it was the, it was what my review was about.

• 2:37:27Griffin Newman?

  It's so bizarre, because the poster does not have their names above the title.

• 2:37:31David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:37:31Griffin Newman?

  Instead, the tagline is, saving the world takes a little heart and a big Johnson. It's rare that there's a tagline that's a joke about the actors' names.

• 2:37:42David Sims?

  It's not bad.

• 2:37:43Griffin Newman?

  It's not. It's not bad.

• 2:37:44David Sims?

  Not bad.

• 2:37:44Griffin Newman?

  But that movie sold itself. That's the start of their partnership. That's the first one.

• 2:37:48Speaker 03

  And then what was the one they did right after that?

• 2:37:51Griffin Newman?

  Jumanji.

• 2:37:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:37:52Griffin Newman?

  Then they start also, like, they legally cannot make a movie without the other one cameoing.

• 2:37:57David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 2:37:58Griffin Newman?

  And then they're also doing fucking commercials.

• 2:38:00David Sims?

  And so it was a hit.

• 2:38:01Griffin Newman?

  It was a big hit.

• 2:38:02David Sims?

  Made 127. Yeah. That's like, number three, The Box is a horror sequel. You did mention it already, but.

• 2:38:07Griffin Newman?

  Conjuring 2.

• 2:38:07David Sims?

  Conjuring 2.

• 2:38:08Griffin Newman?

  Excellent film. My favorite of the Conjuring.

• 2:38:10David Sims?

  I'll always like the first one best, but I do like it. And I love the scene where Patrick Wilson sings.

• 2:38:14Griffin Newman?

  That's him playing Elvis by the campfire.

• 2:38:17David Sims?

  Seen Conjuring 2?

• 2:38:18Speaker 03

  I've only seen the first Conjuring.

• 2:38:20David Sims?

  Which is very good.

• 2:38:21Speaker 03

  I will eventually make my way through Conjuring.

• 2:38:24David Sims?

  The devil will make you do it.

• 2:38:26Speaker 03

  But I've only seen the first Conjuring.

• 2:38:28David Sims?

  Last Rites is one of those movies that I already have forgotten if I watched it. I think I did.

• 2:38:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:38:33David Sims?

  But like, like, I waited, like, no one liked it, so I think I waited for HBO, and I'm pretty sure I watched it, but it is not in there.

• 2:38:40Griffin Newman?

  With you. I don't know if I ever saw it or not. I think I did, but I can't.

• 2:38:44David Sims?

  Why I have Letterboxd, because, you know, I'm 40 years old. Parenting's breaking the old brain.

• 2:38:49Griffin Newman?

  I felt sure I hadn't.

• 2:38:50David Sims?

  I watched it!

• 2:38:52Griffin Newman?

  But now I can't say.

• 2:38:53David Sims?

  One and a half stars. Oh, right. Haunted Mirror.

• 2:38:57Speaker 03

  I might have seen some of the spin offs.

• 2:38:59David Sims?

  Well, there's a lot of them.

• 2:39:00Speaker 03

  La Llorona.

• 2:39:02David Sims?

  Annabelle.

• 2:39:03Speaker 03

  La Llorona.

• 2:39:04Griffin Newman?

  I think I watched Annabelle.

• 2:39:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:06Speaker 03

  You see their.

• 2:39:07Griffin Newman?

  Doing a La Llorona sequel like eight years later.

• 2:39:10David Sims?

  Sure, why not?

• 2:39:10Griffin Newman?

  Apparently that thing has just become like the most watched movie in the history of movies.

• 2:39:14David Sims?

  I think that one did have a long, like Netflix tail.

• 2:39:17Griffin Newman?

  Long tail.

• 2:39:17David Sims?

  Number four at the box office is another sequel. It's a two. It's a movie that got a three many years later, more very much more recently.

• 2:39:24Griffin Newman?

  And is it a three that finally landed on the right title?

• 2:39:27David Sims?

  That is correct.

• 2:39:28Griffin Newman?

  This is Now You See Me numeral two, one of the most offensive movie titles of all time.

• 2:39:34Griffin Newman?

  At the very least, it should have been Now You See Me, comma, T O O.

• 2:39:39David Sims?

  I, I agree. I agree, but it should have been called Now You See Me, Now You Don't.

• 2:39:43Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:39:43David Sims?

  Which they eventually did do.

• 2:39:44Griffin Newman?

  And then they made the bad boys mistake where by not using that title for the second one, they couldn't call the third one. Now you three me, which is what it should have been.

• 2:39:52David Sims?

  I guess so.

• 2:39:53Griffin Newman?

  Instead, the third one is Now You See Me, Now You Don't.

• 2:39:55David Sims?

  I've never seen any of them.

• 2:39:56Griffin Newman?

  And the fourth won't be called Now You See Me, Now You Revolution Legacy.

• 2:40:00David Sims?

  I've always heard that they are fun. They, they seem like silly.

• 2:40:03Griffin Newman?

  Insane movies.

• 2:40:05David Sims?

  Uh, number five at the box office is a huge flop based on a video game.

• 2:40:09Griffin Newman?

  Warcraft.

• 2:40:10David Sims?

  That did make $400 million in like China alone, essentially.

• 2:40:13Griffin Newman?

  And like five dollars.

• 2:40:14David Sims?

  But like no money here. Yeah. That was a true also. I like went to the Regal Court Street just to see it like opening weekend with like four other people and watched it was kind of like, this is so good. I'm smoking an imaginary cigarette.

• 2:40:28Griffin Newman?

  That's also.

• 2:40:29David Sims?

  It's not something I do.

• 2:40:29Griffin Newman?

  Such a, I was gonna call it out. A very funny, specific moment where Hollywood was like, huh, maybe we just make movies for China. A second where they were like, it made so much money in China that maybe we make American blockbusters just for them.

• 2:40:46David Sims?

  And then China was just like, no, we'll just make our own. Go away. Have you seen Warcraft?

• 2:40:50Speaker 03

  I don't think so.

• 2:40:51David Sims?

  Have you played Warcraft?

• 2:40:52Speaker 03

  I, I, I.

• 2:40:53David Sims?

  I'm more of a Starcraft guy.

• 2:40:54Speaker 03

  I had a deep World of Warcraft.

• 2:40:57David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:40:57Speaker 03

  Era.

• 2:40:58David Sims?

  I never did that.

• 2:40:58Speaker 03

  In college.

• 2:40:59David Sims?

  That's the M M R P G, you know, right?

• 2:41:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I, I went to see it with Juan Nicolón, the great comedian, uh, former U C B teammate of mine. And he's a big Warcraft fan. And at the end of the movie, I think the Toby Kebble orc has a baby. And he turned to me and went, so like that baby is kind of the most important character in Warcraft lore. And I'm like, this is what everyone's fucking up. Why is the movie ending?

• 2:41:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, start with the baby.

• 2:41:30Griffin Newman?

  What are you talking about? What the fuck have I been watching then?

• 2:41:33Speaker 03

  It's like if Superman was born at the end of

• 2:41:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:36Speaker 03

  End of the movie.

• 2:41:37Griffin Newman?

  If the movie was called Superman, but the whole movie was about Jor-El.

• 2:41:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:41Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, that baby's Superman.

• 2:41:43David Sims?

  This is true. I'm no little Warcraft expert, but I do know that they did. Uh, number six is X-Men: Apocalypse, as you mentioned, terrible movie.

• 2:41:50Griffin Newman?

  The original Gentleman Six, which is embarrassing to admit now.

• 2:41:53David Sims?

  It's crazy that, yeah, you were like, it's a six. And I was like, I don't know.

• 2:41:57Griffin Newman?

  And then I called it a Gentleman Six. And now, once a month, for the rest of our lives, someone on the Reddit starts a thread, can anyone explain to me what a Gentleman Six means? And it's just people trying to parse my definition.

• 2:42:10David Sims?

  Um, number seven is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows, which we've covered on our Patreon, which is fun. That's the one that's good.

• 2:42:16Griffin Newman?

  That's the good one. That's the Bebop Rocksteady one.

• 2:42:18David Sims?

  Right. The better live action.

• 2:42:20Griffin Newman?

  Dave Green, director of Cody vs. Acme.

• 2:42:22David Sims?

  Right. The live action, I mean, like CGI.

• 2:42:24Griffin Newman?

  The Bay, the Bay, the Platinum Dunes.

• 2:42:26Speaker 03

  Is there any fat guys in that movie?

• 2:42:28Griffin Newman?

  Bebop and Rocksteady.

• 2:42:29David Sims?

  Bebop and Rocksteady.

• 2:42:30Speaker 03

  Then I, I'm gonna be doing a live.

• 2:42:31Griffin Newman?

  It's prime for a live action remake. You got two big guys.

• 2:42:36David Sims?

  Um.

• 2:42:37Griffin Newman?

  You could play both. You could clump it.

• 2:42:40Speaker 03

  I'm gonna do a clump, a clump Bebop.

• 2:42:43Griffin Newman?

  I mean, you should also do a live action clumps.

• 2:42:46Speaker 03

  I would love to do that.

• 2:42:47David Sims?

  Number eight is Alice Through the Looking Glass, which is terrible.

• 2:42:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:53David Sims?

  Number nine is Me Before You. That's the Emilia Clarke.

• 2:42:56Griffin Newman?

  Sam Claflin?

• 2:42:57David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:42:58Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. That's like, uh, based on a book.

• 2:43:01David Sims?

  She's in, uh, one of them's, uh,

• 2:43:04Griffin Newman?

  A Tear Journey.

• 2:43:04David Sims?

  In a wheelchair or something. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

• 2:43:07Speaker 03

  Who wants to do assisted suicide?

• 2:43:09David Sims?

  Right, right, right, right, right. Uh, number 10 is Captain America: Civil War, which obviously is a big hit.

• 2:43:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Thing I love to call out about, um, Alice Through the Looking Glass, it's the rare reverse, uh, spy who shagged me. Where the movie in total made less than the first movie made in its opening weekend?

• 2:43:27Speaker 03

  Is that like a horror, a horror Alice?

• 2:43:30Griffin Newman?

  No, it's just the second Tim Burton, but without Tim Burton and everyone else. It's Depp and Hannibal Atta, Carter and Anne Hathaway. And Sasha Baron Cohen plays time.

• 2:43:42David Sims?

  Yes, he does. He plays the concept of time.

• 2:43:44Griffin Newman?

  And a performance.

• 2:43:45David Sims?

  It's not that bad.

• 2:43:46Griffin Newman?

  That I feel like you've always stumped.

• 2:43:47David Sims?

  I'm like, he's actually doing something in that one. Yeah.

• 2:43:51Griffin Newman?

  Zach, Zach is like, he looks intrigued.

• 2:43:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I kind of want to toss it on.

• 2:43:56David Sims?

  The plot of that movie is that the Mad Hatter is bummed out. And they have to figure out why he's bummed out. It's sort of like a he's lost his mojo thing. Yeah.

• 2:44:05Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's what's the matter with?

• 2:44:06David Sims?

  He's in a grumpy mood. Yeah.

• 2:44:08Griffin Newman?

  Was the tagline.

• 2:44:09David Sims?

  And so she has to use the time guy to go back in time to figure out that like the Mad Hatter's dad was mean to him or something.

• 2:44:15Speaker 03

  I think I'm remembering the trailers for this now.

• 2:44:17Griffin Newman?

  Plays the Hatter's dad.

• 2:44:18David Sims?

  I don't fuck. Oh, Jesus. Now I gotta look it up.

• 2:44:21Griffin Newman?

  Like Keith Richards or something.

• 2:44:22David Sims?

  No, that's Pirates did that.

• 2:44:25Griffin Newman?

  I know, but I'm like.

• 2:44:26David Sims?

  Can't do that twice.

• 2:44:26Griffin Newman?

  Who would Depp have cast to play Dad Hatter?

• 2:44:30David Sims?

  Uh, I don't know. Reese Fen.

• 2:44:33Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 2:44:35David Sims?

  Reese Fen does it. Yeah.

• 2:44:36Griffin Newman?

  That makes so much sense.

• 2:44:39David Sims?

  Huh. Anyway, but this, uh, this film, Dory, Tori's a good time.

• 2:44:44Griffin Newman?

  That's a good time.

• 2:44:45David Sims?

  She's not, she's not changing the world this movie, but like it's a good time.

• 2:44:48Speaker 03

  One thing we didn't talk about yet, and this is a good time for it because it was sort of the, the, in the credits. I fucking loved the sort of tableaus with Hank where you, you like, don't know where he's going to be. And then he, he pops up. I could have watched that for a full hour, just like.

• 2:45:06Griffin Newman?

  I love when he goes into the fishbowl and makes himself look like a plant.

• 2:45:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's awesome. Like, yeah, that, that was great. They should do, uh, they should do that for the sphere. Yeah. You put a feature length, just Finding Hank slideshow at the Sphere?

• 2:45:24Griffin Newman?

  Well, you know, the Finding Nemo DVD, which is the best selling, uh, physical media release of all time still, or certainly movie, uh, had aquarium mode was its big feature, was you could press a button and it would just play an endless loop of like a Yule log equivalent of Pixar animation, your TV screen is an aquarium. So you, you would love just.

• 2:45:48Speaker 03

  I would.

• 2:45:49Griffin Newman?

  A four hour loop of.

• 2:45:50Speaker 03

  A screensaver, I guess.

• 2:45:52Griffin Newman?

  Hank in a room and he's sneaking into different spots.

• 2:45:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you just don't know where he's going to be at first. And then it's like, oh, there he is.

• 2:45:58Griffin Newman?

  There he is. And then he hides again.

• 2:45:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:59Griffin Newman?

  Hank's a really good guy.

• 2:46:02Griffin Newman?

  Zach, do you have anything you want to plug?

• 2:46:04Speaker 03

  Um, when does this come out?

• 2:46:07Griffin Newman?

  It comes out, uh, July 12th.

• 2:46:09Speaker 03

  Okay. I believe there's one more Rat Scraps.

• 2:46:14Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. Rat Scraps is ending.

• 2:46:15Speaker 03

  I believe there will be one more show.

• 2:46:17Griffin Newman?

  New York Improv.

• 2:46:18Speaker 03

  New York Improv Show at Caveat Theater. I believe our final show is in August sometime. So check it out.

• 2:46:25Griffin Newman?

  Ellen doing monologues?

• 2:46:26Speaker 03

  Uh, hey, we don't know yet, but I'll certainly reach out. Um, but yeah, it's an improv show I do, uh, or have done where we're ending our run after five years, I think. Um, yeah. So I believe the final show is in August. Caveat.com. Google it. You'll, you'll figure it out. Come to the last show.

• 2:46:47Griffin Newman?

  Come to the last show.

• 2:46:48David Sims?

  You are in, I'm just looking at your Wikipedia page now. You're in Jane's new movie.

• 2:46:52Speaker 03

  That's right. I'm very excited for that.

• 2:46:54David Sims?

  That's out, I think in August.

• 2:46:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:56David Sims?

  Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 2:46:58Speaker 03

  There's, we got some, I got a busy year on the. You got a good, you got a good slate. Coming up.

• 2:47:04David Sims?

  Right. You're in.

• 2:47:04Speaker 03

  Breadwinner.

• 2:47:05David Sims?

  You're in the breadwinner, which is out at this point. The, the, the Nate Bargatze movie.

• 2:47:09Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:47:10David Sims?

  Right. Uh, you're in Resident Evil.

• 2:47:13Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 2:47:13David Sims?

  According to Wikipedia. Zach Krueger's Resident Evil.

• 2:47:15Griffin Newman?

  Can confirm, of course. Can confirm. You can.

• 2:47:18Speaker 03

  Very excited.

• 2:47:19David Sims?

  You're in a Kevin Hart movie called 72 Hours?

• 2:47:21Speaker 03

  I am. Wait, what? At the Netflix original. I got to work with my guy.

• 2:47:25David Sims?

  Stunned to learn that Kevin is making a Netflix original.

• 2:47:27Griffin Newman?

  Saving the World's gonna take a little heart and a little cherry.

• 2:47:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. I tried to push that. They said I'm not really a main character.

• 2:47:37Griffin Newman?

  They said I'm more of a sort of minor supporter.

• 2:47:42David Sims?

  Interesting. A little rude.

• 2:47:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:45David Sims?

  Uh, you're in Lauren Miller Rogan's new movie, although I don't know when that's coming out, but that seems like that's a great cast.

• 2:47:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

• 2:47:52David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:53Griffin Newman?

  We got some fun stuff.

• 2:47:53David Sims?

  You got lots of fun stuff. And there's Severance on Apple and Fallout on Prime Video. And I don't know.

• 2:47:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you start filming Severance in a couple of months, which means it will premiere next decade, right?

• 2:48:06Speaker 03

  No comment.

• 2:48:07David Sims?

  No talking about Severance. Great show. I love it.

• 2:48:11Griffin Newman?

  You're the best.

• 2:48:12David Sims?

  Best show on TV. And you're the best.

• 2:48:14Griffin Newman?

  Thank you.

• 2:48:14David Sims?

  Best guest on the podcast.

• 2:48:16Speaker 03

  Good. Always good to be here.

• 2:48:18David Sims?

  It's very nice to have you.

• 2:48:19Speaker 03

  And whenever that 1517 to Paris comes into the station.

• 2:48:23David Sims?

  Oh, dude.

• 2:48:23Griffin Newman?

  Like Clint.

• 2:48:24David Sims?

  I mean, look, I know we're about to do nine months of Marty.

• 2:48:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:27David Sims?

  So like one year of Clint isn't exactly like the best follow up.

• 2:48:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:31David Sims?

  But like, you know, if you want to give me the green light for a year of Clint.

• 2:48:35Griffin Newman?

  But the Clint won't take that long because we can do each episode in one take.

• 2:48:39David Sims?

  That's true. We should actually, right, commit with the Clintons to being like, we need to be done in 80 minutes and break for lunch or whatever, right? We have to honor him somehow.

• 2:48:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:49Speaker 03

  Love that idea.

• 2:48:49Griffin Newman?

  That would actually be fun. The Clint bit is 10 minute episodes.

• 2:48:53David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, seriously.

• 2:48:54Speaker 03

  Let's not make a big deal out of it.

• 2:48:56David Sims?

  It's good.

• 2:48:57Griffin Newman?

  Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Next week we are going straight into In the Blink of an Eye.

• 2:49:03David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, I think so.

• 2:49:05Griffin Newman?

  Just making sure there's no new release stuff with all the summer.

• 2:49:08Speaker 03

  Oh, wait, shit. It is the Odyssey.

• 2:49:10Griffin Newman?

  It's the Odyssey.

• 2:49:12David Sims?

  Christopher Nolan's the Odyssey.

• 2:49:13Griffin Newman?

  This is why I asked.

• 2:49:14David Sims?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, there you go.

• 2:49:15Griffin Newman?

  So the next two weeks, we will be covering the two biggest films of 2026.

• 2:49:19Speaker 03

  I'm hyped for that.

• 2:49:20Griffin Newman?

  The Odyssey and In the Blink of an Eye.

• 2:49:22David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:49:23Griffin Newman?

  How do we think Odyssey is gonna be?

• 2:49:25David Sims?

  I'm so excited for it.

• 2:49:26Speaker 03

  Consider me seated.

• 2:49:27David Sims?

  Yeah, I'm so seated. I'm seated in a horse.

• 2:49:31Speaker 03

  And I love, I'm excited for Berenthal in the Odyssey.

• 2:49:34Griffin Newman?

  I'm really excited for that.

• 2:49:35David Sims?

  Hey, can I fucking talk to you?

• 2:49:36Griffin Newman?

  I love that guy.

• 2:49:37David Sims?

  Just like the idea of like, and Hathaway's like, when will my husband come?

• 2:49:40Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:49:41David Sims?

  Hey, I don't fucking know.

• 2:49:42Speaker 03

  Your husband's on some sort of Odyssey or something.

• 2:49:47David Sims?

  Okay, good cousin, come on.

• 2:49:48Speaker 03

  Long time.

• 2:49:49David Sims?

  Cousin, you need to open your own restaurant.

• 2:49:51Speaker 03

  A series of small trials.

• 2:49:53David Sims?

  He can't stop playing.

• 2:49:54Griffin Newman?

  Man.

• 2:49:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:49:57Griffin Newman?

  Uh, anyway, tune in next week for that. And as always, Disney, make the call. Zach Cherry is ready and Tech avail to develop Old Marlin.

• 2:50:09Speaker 03

  I'd love a house.

• 2:50:10Griffin Newman?

  A show about Marlin getting some strength.

• 2:50:12Speaker 03

  Even just give me, let me do a little voice in.

• 2:50:14Griffin Newman?

  Do a little voice in Old Marlin.

• 2:50:17Speaker 03

  I could be like, uh, what's a, what's a sea creature they haven't done yet?

• 2:50:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh, star, no, starfish is tadpole?

• 2:50:26Speaker 03

  Snail. Oh, I'm a little snail. That's pretty good. Wait a second.

• 2:50:33Griffin Newman?

  What's your, what's your deal?

• 2:50:34Speaker 03

  Blank Check owns that, okay? You come through us. I have some type of trauma as well. Very good move.

• 2:50:42Griffin Newman?

  We could tease this out after a couple of seasons. Yeah.

• 2:50:45Speaker 03

  Dory, I accept and love you.

• 2:50:49Griffin Newman?

  It's Dory's boyfriend.

• 2:50:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:50:54Speaker 03

  That's my pitch.

• 2:50:55Griffin Newman?

  It's a good pitch.

• 2:51:01Speaker 04

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by L.A. Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check Special Features

• 2:51:43Speaker 04

  for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.