Usher’s Confessions: Dancing With Keke and Being “The Last Showman”

We all know Usher from classic albums like “Confessions” to his iconic stage shows—but have y’all been wondering what’s REALLY going on inside the man’s head? Well, he’s putting it all out there in a new Audible special called “The Last Showman,” where he gets real about his 30-year career, the making of “Confessions,” and everything in between. We’re getting into what inspired him to make the new special, sipping on some tea about how he accidentally caused some drama in Keke’s home life, and talking what it means to have everyone know everything about him. Then we’re getting into his biggest regrets, first kiss, and more in a game of “Confessions." See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 1:51Speaker 00

  You made me feel like I could do this shit. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know if I could do a podcast. I don't know if people even want to watch podcasts with me.

• 1:56Keke Palmer?

  Well, we got the last showman, you know, with the audible. So I'm gonna be listening to that and hearing about all the confessions.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  I'm just getting warmed up. I mean, I did my audibles and, you know what I mean? Just, you know, trying to figure out how this new space works with creativity. I'm so accustomed to being on the stage and, you know, having that connection between artists. We come home at a different time, right? When I first started, I was 16 years old.

• 2:17Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. And I mean, with the showman, I think that that word rings so true. I love the title that you chose for the audible. Because when I think about when you started 16, that's when that showmanship was really, I feel like, at its height. Like, what was your training like at 16 to get to being who you are on stage today?

• 2:35Speaker 00

  By the way, that was a standard for all artists. And there was a major, you know, kind of focus on artist development. Sure, it could have come from the, you know, Motown era, but L.A. Reid and the people who were working on artists from that time. I mean, all we were inspired by, if you think about, like, New Edition. You know, so like, Rook Payne and those people who really put the time in to a live performance. And by the way, it was about not just selling music. Because the likely chance that you would sell millions and millions of albums weren't the reason why you were doing it. You were doing it to impress an audience, to be able to come to a town and, you know, play a venue and people come back to see you time and time again.

• 3:18Speaker 00

  And hopefully you grow a career where you go from nightclubs to eventually bigger venues and keep going upward. But to make certain that that part of who you were as an artist, you know, was locked in, was important. And it would help you in many ways. Because you had to do videos, you had to do visuals. You had to, you know, have this certain etiquette to be able to do interviews and represent the brand of that company and yourself well. Back then, you know, Unfortunately, it was more like work for hires. So you were, as an artist, were assigned to a deal. And all depending on how you perform would determine how much leverage you even have in it.

• 3:56Keke Palmer?

  Kind of like M G and Marilyn Monroe, the VOD.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, so you were being developed throughout the process, but there was some sort of artist development that started it all off. And if you wanted to live up to the standard of the artist that you were either underneath on those major labels, you know, if you think about the majors, right? You're like, okay, well, maybe one day I'll be as big as, you know, Michael Jackson if I'm in the same Sony system, or I'll be as big as, you know, Babyface if I'm signed to his label, I'll be as.

• 4:25Keke Palmer?

  I love what you're talking about with this because I don't think a lot of people always realize the corporate elements that also exist in entertainment industry, just like any other industry.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Well, that's because corporate now is playing a less significant part in it. And now you have independence, which is good, but I think that something suffers in it. I think that artist development happens in a different way. I ain't gonna discredit the fact that, you know, you can still, you know, garner a lot of attention and get people really excited about what you do and people come see you perform. But what do you offer them when they're there? That actually reminds you of what this is really about. It's about your vocal ability. It's about your being able to shock people and dance or perform and put together an entire, you know, memorable moment of choreography, especially if that's who you are on, on, you know, videos, right? When they come to see you live, you should have that plus something, right?

• 5:15Keke Palmer?

  And it's so interesting because I feel like every artist doesn't even know or want to do the tour thing. You know, that's so funny, the clip of Michael Jackson where it's like, how you feel about touring? He's like, I hate touring. And they're like, we're filming. And he's like, I love touring. It's like this little funny gift that they do.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  He's telling the truth.

• 5:33Keke Palmer?

  Right, so tell me about that love and hate relationship where it's, this is what I have to do, but what makes touring also so difficult? And something that you knew you wanted to do as an artist, because you started as young as sixteen.

• 5:45Speaker 00

  By the way, I don't think any of us outside of like, you know, those who, the Silvers and placing people like that are the DeBarge family, those people who started super young. Even relate to what Michael was talking about. I understand when he says, I hate touring. Nine times out of ten, because his entire life has been touring and has been being that and being ready, right? For me, it's a bit different, but I I felt that it was part of what I signed up for when I decided.

• 6:12Keke Palmer?

  Because it was your choice, you feel?

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Well, it's different in terms of whether I love or hate it. I never hated touring. I love touring. Like, that is the one thing that's the most important part to me. But the only reason why I hate it now is because I don't get time with my kids. So the sacrifice that I have to make to not be there, for them, rather, they know it. I would rather, you know, be able to have real permissive parenting where I can wake up every morning and have breakfast with my kids, take them to school, check on them, you know what I'm saying, after school and and be able to try and have some sense of normalcy. Uh, because great parenting hopefully allows your kids to grow up and understand what it is to work for something. If you're not there to instill it, and it's a bit complicated.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  So I I hate that I, you know, I I don't get a chance to have that part. I love being able to perform. That's the most important thing that I said I would do when I didn't have kids. Moment I had kids, it's like, yeah, I don't really like being out there all the time. So I try to make the most of it when I do it.

• 7:15Keke Palmer?

  You definitely make the most of it. One thing I would love to talk a little bit about some of your inspirations, because aside from Michael, you, I mean, I know that's Fred Astaire. There's so many different elements that you bring to stage. Um, I remember when I was at your show, you know, we got to talk about twenty twenty-three. And and when I came to the show and we shut it down.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  Can we talk about when you came to the show? I mean, when you literally shut down the whole world for two seconds?

• 7:38Keke Palmer?

  That was absolutely insane, but I will be honest, my reaction was a hundred percent purely based off of me being a fan of yours for years. People don't even know also I auditioned for In the Mix.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  They don't know.

• 7:48Keke Palmer?

  They didn't give me the part. Why would Usher, I auditioned, we got far to the chemistry read. And I remember honestly being speechless. I feel like maybe my audition wasn't good because soon as I walked in.

• 7:59Speaker 00

  No, no, no, stop, stop. Your audition was absolutely incredible. And I have to tell you, though it's been forever, and if you want to go back and check out the movie and see it, you can. In the mix, but you actually did phenomenal. I just felt like you might have been a little bit too old.

• 8:15Keke Palmer?

  And that's what they told me.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:16Keke Palmer?

  They told me that.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  But by the way, it wasn't my last decision, um, but I gave my opinion, but I really did feel like you did an amazing job. Um, but I can't win them all.

• 8:25Keke Palmer?

  Haha.

• 8:26Speaker 00

  You know.

• 8:26Keke Palmer?

  Well, now we gotta just, we, I'm writing the next movie.

• 8:29Speaker 00

  Why not?

• 8:29Keke Palmer?

  We gotta do a movie together.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  We should do something.

• 8:32Keke Palmer?

  Come on.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  Other than just drive everybody crazy.

• 8:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, so wait, let's get to that. So I remember being at the show, and this was my first time being at your concert, but I gotta tell you, man, all my life, I was one of those people where it's like, I know that Usher's a guy, he's for the guys, but like, I wanna be Usher. I gotta think about you coming down the stairs, all your videos were so theatrical. You wasn't just, like, we got the character of Usher, where it's like, oh, don't leave your girl around me. Like, he was giving storyline, and I love that because I think for me, not having the proper support as an artist in the music industry, I was always trying to figure out, how did people tell their story? How do I incorporate the storyline of who I am to my audience through my music? And so I used to study a lot of your stuff because you were, you were so great at it.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  But that's the brilliance of you as a performer, right? You make the difference. You are actually more like the artists of our time, where you study, where you understood the nuance, where you care about something more than just the fan experience. Like, you really, you really know the moves, you understand the moments, you've looked at the clips, you've looked at the interviews, you've studied what people, you know, what their inspirations were, all of those things. And unfortunately, I don't know if we have enough time to stop and focus on that part, because everybody's trying to be famous themselves as opposed to, how do I follow the thing that I felt was so great? And how do I have some of those moments? Right? How do I have the same moments that I'm looking at from Michael? Or I'm looking at from, you know, when I was a kid, it was New Edition.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  When I'm looking at, you know, these amazing moments that are about vocal ability. When I look at, you know, Whitney Houston, or, um.

• 10:10Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, Whitney.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Luther Vandross, and had these incredible vocal moments.

• 10:16Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  Right? If you're accustomed to that, if you're. Looking at it every day, then you aspire to be that. Things have changed, you know what I'm saying? And I am saying it's changed for the worse, but I do think it's important for people to understand the importance of being a showman. That's why I wanted to put this, you know, this, you know,

• 10:33Keke Palmer?

  The audibles.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Audibles together.

• 10:34Keke Palmer?

  Yes, and those stories that are gonna come with that, I think are gonna be not just gaggy, exciting and cool to hear, but yes, hopefully people are gonna be learning as well. I remember watching the show and thinking, oh my gosh, this is also musical theater. We have acrobatics and all this craziness with the skating. Then we have the storytelling as we go from each set and what world it puts us into. And then we have all the eras. So my reaction was just like, I can't believe like, I haven't seen anybody perform like this in such a long time. Now, obviously, everybody went crazy. We caused some ruckus in my relationship.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  Well, hold on. Did we cause some?

• 11:13Keke Palmer?

  We did. And there's so many. We were being showmen.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  Hold on. Did I have anything to do what was going on in your home? Did I send you that dress?

• 11:21Keke Palmer?

  Have you seen the Boondocks episode? Because you've been apparently accused of this for years.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Did I send you the dress? I just wanna know that.

• 11:29Keke Palmer?

  Did you expect that reaction?

• 11:31Speaker 00

  For how people choose to react to my experience as an entertainer. I am not deliberately trying to do anything that's gonna rock anybody's home.

• 11:40Keke Palmer?

  Usher, ushering.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  I'm ushering right now. This is what I actually say to myself in the mirror every time I go out there before I hit the stage. I am not here to break up your home. I am here to entertain you, my love. You know what I'm saying? Nah, but, yeah.

• 11:52Keke Palmer?

  Were you shocked?

• 11:54Speaker 00

  No. I was, I was actually, we were having a great time.

• 11:58Keke Palmer?

  I know, it was so fun. It was the coolest. And you always do these amazing, engaging moments with the audience. Like, I mean, you did it with Issa, with Taraji. Now you're doing some Cherry stuff. Now, that's very rated R. You done added levels to it.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:12Keke Palmer?

  And the girls, we all love it. It's so fun. I mean, how many times do you feel, because obviously we did the video after.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:19Keke Palmer?

  And I wanna talk about why you, well, let's start there then. What made you after that say, hey, Key, let's do the video? I would love to know your thought process around there, because there was so much drama.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  I think you and I both can share the sentiment of the moment, because I know it was a hot moment for you. And I was like, you know what? You know, when life feeds you lemons, you make lemonade. I think that this could be something positive and actually just shine a little bit of fun on it. And allowing us to really do something that I think could be fun is the purpose and point of it. Let's do something that just takes the mind off of it and just have a good time. You know, don't focus on the drama. By the way, if you focus on the drama, then you're going to always respond to it only. But if you just live your life as an entertainer and understand the purpose of whatever you're creating to service entertainment, then it'll be okay.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Now, again, I don't want to take any responsibility for breaking anybody's home up, but that wasn't the purpose and point. It was for you to have a good time with your girls, come out there and just enjoy. I don't remember the last time that, you know, I had experiences like that or either went to shows like this. I'm always trying to find things that I think are fun. Vegas was intended to be intimate.

• 13:33Keke Palmer?

  And you're being light about it, but the wisdom that you gave me will forever be cherished. Because I don't think people understand also, like, I'm an entertainer, I'm a performer, this is what I do. But also, like, I have a life that I don't, where I don't perform.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:46Keke Palmer?

  That I have to also live in balance with the people that maybe only know me personally and don't know I'm entertaining. That's a big line, and I talk about it a little bit in my book. I quote you haphazardly, but that advice was really helpful to me and stuck with me. Because wait a minute, I know I'm an entertainer. The people closest to me that have been with me for the last 20 years that I've done this career know. But the people that are just getting to know me, fall in love with me, and learn how to deal with the persona of who I am and then who I really am to them, that's the challenge.

• 14:26Keke Palmer?

  All month long, love is in the air, B and B that is, and I'm about to put you on to the ultimate Valentine's Day tea. Listen up, lovebirds. It's time to ditch the same old dinner date and level up your romance game with the vacation. Now, I've been known to take a lover on a romantic getaway in the past, and Airbnb was always the first place I looked to find private spots perfect for cuddling up. I'm talking tucked away, deep in the middle of nowhere chalet, okay? Trust me, nothing says I love you like champagne and strawberries in front of a cabin's fireplace, or some pinot and chocolate in your very own bubble house. Yes, this year, head straight to Airbnb's guest favorites. These spots are the cream of the crop, honey. Cozy cabins, beachfront beauties, and city penthouses that will make your bays jaw drop.

• 15:11Keke Palmer?

  They're top rated for a reason, with amenities that'll have you feeling like royalty. Now, don't settle for ordinary this V-day and every day after. Whether you're dreaming of a scheduled mountain getaway or a chic city escape, Airbnb's got you covered. Remember, some trips are better in an Airbnb, especially when love is in the air. Book the perfect spot and get your vacation on. You'll never forget it. Happy Valentine's Day. Okay, so I know y'all caught last night's premiere of The Bachelor, right? Didn't I tell you there'd be a quiz? Look, it's fine, because if you didn't, I'll let you hop on over to Hulu to get caught up. Now that that's out of the way, didn't I tell y'all that man was fine?

• 15:54Keke Palmer?

  And genuine, and kind-hearted, and really sweet, and did I mention fine? This is the sort of television that I live for. The romance, the drama, watching all these beautiful people gallivant and coveart all over the mansion. Oh, my heart's fluttering just thinking about it. Will Grant you Savannah, the blonde bombshell from Virginia? Or Kelsey, the gorgeous goddess from Brooklyn? Or any of the other beautiful and intelligent women vying for his love? Y'all know I have no horse in this race, but I am locked in. Listen, if there was ever a time for a wine-fueled watch party with the besties, it's Mondays at 8/7 central, darling. New episodes of The Bachelor air every Monday at 8/7 central on ABC.

• 16:38Keke Palmer?

  And, as always, you can choose to stream it on Hulu, too. Now where's my rose?

• 16:45Keke Palmer?

  You've worked with a lot of people in your family and relationships. Managers, you know what I mean? Your mom was managing your career for years. Those are personal relationships that also have to exist in the persona of Usher.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:58Keke Palmer?

  When did you and how did you learn how to do that?

• 17:01Speaker 00

  I don't know that I actually learned how to do it. Or it just became kind of an inevitable thing that happened because of my trust for my mother. And the fact that she happened to be there when I was inspired to do what I was and encouraged and supported and paid whatever it was in order for us to start a career. When I got enough attention, then I needed at least guidance. And I think my mother was smart, educated enough to be able to, you know, read through the fine print that she could and find people who could represent me well and do our best to try and position ourselves to have some leverage in building a career. Because I was dead set on getting somewhere.

• 17:40Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  But it's a very complicated thing because, you know, what was obviously affected was our relationship.

• 17:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  And I never get a chance to talk about it. Maybe one day I'll talk about it in a book. But it was very difficult to kind of balance a relationship between my mom and me. And by the way, it's only been me and her and my brother. And then, you know, the kind of contrast and generational things that come with all of those things, right? Not being raised with your father and now being this kind of person who's got to carry the torch and be the breadwinner in my mind, rather it was true or not of my family. It was, it's a lot.

• 18:18Keke Palmer?

  I relate to it so completely and entirely from every aspect that you said.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:23Keke Palmer?

  And the mom and the child and the manager thing, it was so difficult. I mean, I remember when I started just calling my mom Sharon.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:31Keke Palmer?

  Because it was kind of like I'm trying my best to find delineating factors from when you are my mom and when you are being my manager. Because are you with them or are you with me? And, you know, it becomes so convoluted because you both are working towards the same goal, but who you have to be sometimes to get there.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  You're still just trying to figure out how to cope with life. Let alone try to manage a relationship with someone whom you're gonna have natural emotions and have differences with, right? And there is that contrast where mom knows best or parents knows best, but what if what you're asking for in your mind is very clear? But now it's like, wait a minute, you just crossed the line, but there is no barriers with family. It is what it is. And it's a very complicated situation, which was part of the reason that I elected for our relationship to be, you know, a little bit separated. I would always be supportive of her, she would always be supportive of me, but I wanted my mother because I ain't have her for about 25 plus years.

• 19:32Keke Palmer?

  And when you didn't have her, I'm sure people are like, what do you mean you didn't have her? You were working with her. What would you explain that like? Was it just that you couldn't be anybody outside of the usher you was on TV? How did, you know, what was the?

• 19:43Speaker 00

  No, I just really, you, you, sometimes you don't want your parents to tell you you did the wrong thing. I just want you to love me. I don't need you to remind me of how bad I've made a decision. I know. I need you to hold my hand through it. Can you just be here with me? And that became complicated because some of the moves that I was naturally making were, you know, dangerous for our, for what we had built. But hey, that was my choice. But I really wanted my mother to just hold my hand and be there with me through some of the harder times, but there were times when she couldn't. But she drew hard lines because by the way, this is a single woman, black woman, in a predominantly male industry where she's not respected because she's a businesswoman. She's respected because she's a mother.

• 20:27Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 20:28Speaker 00

  And then that contrast between a man now and a woman is happening. And I'm like, man, this is, I'm not even calling you mom. I'm calling you by your name.

• 20:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  This is, and probably far worse than that. And now we screaming at each other and it's like, what? And the hell has happened? So before you know it, I had completely lost who I was as her son.

• 20:51Speaker 00

  And needed to-

• 20:51Keke Palmer?

  How did you find the clarity around that, though? Because when you're so in it, it all becomes what's normal. What was the moment where you're like, oh, wait a minute, I really don't want this? And I, you know, were you in therapy? Did you have good friends that was talking to you about it?

• 21:03Speaker 00

  Come on, man, we don't believe in therapists, let's be real. And what access do we have to people? You know what I'm saying? To therapists, maybe in church, you know what I'm saying? Or maybe, you know, a counselor at, at school? Or maybe a person, you know, that is mentoring you? Or maybe elders? But we don't have counselors, people to really help you understand, you know, the dynamic of how the brain functions? And how you have to deal with generational trauma? I didn't even know any of those words and shit before I started working with a therapist.

• 21:31Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  So I ain't really have access or either the understanding to have access? Or either, you know, source those types of things to help me communicate? It was just, I'm troubleshooting with friends. I'm kind of working out things in real time and, and like trial and error. And then, you know, the dynamic of, damn, I can't take back what I said now. And now, you know, it's just, you're just a defiant child. No, I'm not, I, this is the dynamic. So it ain't nothing normal about it. It never becomes normal. And defining, establishing those boundaries and having therapy would have definitely helped me earlier. But again, we don't come from that culture, I'm gonna keep it real. Or at least, I didn't. I can't say all black people don't, but I didn't. Matter of fact-

• 22:15Keke Palmer?

  I didn't either, I brought it to my family. You know, I brought the concept of therapy.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  Don't you be outside telling my secret, telling what happened in our family? What? You, you better, what? Keep that shit to yourself. You know, don't be snitching. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm really over here suffering, I gotta deal with some of this shit.

• 22:31Keke Palmer?

  And I hear voices.

• 22:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like, come on, man, you know, but, um, nah, it's not readily available.

• 22:37Keke Palmer?

  And honestly, you would assume that, you know, after having had that relationship? And then saying to yourself, okay, boo, me and my mom, this gonna be my mom, I'ma be me, that's gonna be separate? That you wouldn't necessarily work with family again? But you, you continue to. I mean, even your wife, Jennifer, she works in the industry.

• 22:53Speaker 00

  She works in the industry outside. She's an executive, um, and works with a multitude of artists. Um, she works with 21 Savage. Mariah the scientist.

• 23:02Keke Palmer?

  I love Mariah.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  DDG, she works with a ton of artists in the epic system.

• 23:06Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  And, and well decorated in terms of the things that she's been associated with an artist that she, that she's, you know, kind of either helped with music.

• 23:14Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 23:14Speaker 00

  Um, I definitely rely on her opinion about things. She's an incredible sounding board. And, you know, brings calm to some of my madness sometimes, you know? But if we had to work together, oh my God, it would, it wouldn't work. It would damage our relationship. I, I would never do that. Like, matter of fact, we have a policy, you know, if this is a business that you're in, I'm gonna help establish and work on it. But it's your business, you know, and then we have the things that we do together, but it's not a mandate, it's a choice.

• 23:42Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  Um, in relationship, um, you know, your things are your things, my things are mine. I have something I'm passionate about. I need your support. I need your help. I wanna get counsel, but those kinds of boundaries established, I think hopefully gonna, you know, make this a more sustainable relationship. This is my third one.

• 23:59Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 23:59Speaker 00

  And I'm trying to make certain that I don't take this ring off.

• 24:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I know, that's right. Amen. I, I, I love that. And I love that it is a balance in that regard because hey, sometimes it's difficult when the person doesn't know anything about what you do.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:11Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean? I think for me, it was always difficult to figure out, do I wanna date somebody that's in the industry and that knows what's going on? Or does that not give me enough of a way to be outside of the industry enough? You know how that is as entertainment? It's like, you don't want the other one.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  You don't want that. You don't want somebody who's oblivious.

• 24:28Keke Palmer?

  Really?

• 24:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. You don't want, you want somebody who does understand who you are and knows the dynamic that comes with it because there's gonna be times where it becomes complicated and you're gonna need them to get it and create balance. If they're rationed.

• 24:41Keke Palmer?

  Doesn't it then feel too Hollywood sometimes?

• 24:44Speaker 00

  Hollywood because I understand who I'm dating and I know what I got myself into before I started. Nah, I think when, and if you want to live that life, you can, but at some point, she or he will feel like, oh, I'm not included. I don't understand. Oh, you know what? You're right. I don't understand. I don't work in your world. You don't want that. You know what I'm saying? You, you, you want somebody who at least understands.

• 25:05Keke Palmer?

  Have you ever dated somebody out of the industry or you always dated people that knew, you know, or at least adjacent to?

• 25:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, nah, I mean, other industries, yeah.

• 25:13Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  You know, um.

• 25:14Keke Palmer?

  But not entertainment.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, um, I've, yes, I've dated all types of women.

• 25:20Keke Palmer?

  And so I guess, and so I guess that's how you learn, yeah, that the ones outside of the industry.

• 25:23Speaker 00

  No, actually, just from afar. This is just an opinion, you know, I, I, I could be wrong, that's what I'm saying. I'm, I'm not saying that what I am saying is the only way to do it.

• 25:33Keke Palmer?

  Right, right.

• 25:33Speaker 00

  It's working so far.

• 25:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  And there's enough of an understanding. She understands my language and I understand hers. We understand how to hear each other, but more than hearing each other, we know how to listen. You know what I'm saying? It's, it's one thing to have space to talk, but to have ears to hear, that is the difference in having successful relationships in life, period. And having someone who comes from the world or either, you know, the idea of that world and, and what it takes in terms of dedication and commitment, it actually helps.

• 26:10Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  It really does help, yeah.

• 26:12Keke Palmer?

  We're talking about how things were different with the concept of being a showman and artist development. I'm curious, and this is a broad question, but maybe you have an answer of, what do you feel is missing or what is the biggest difference between then and now? With artists today coming up?

• 26:30Speaker 00

  Um, I mean, I don't know.

• 26:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  I mean, if, if I were just judging, you know, the industry at large, um, I think that what has happened with independent artists or artists who don't necessarily rely on, you know, companies and have independence is a great thing. But some of these gatekeepers and companies that were, so to speak, gatekeepers, um, of the integrity of entertainment and were curating very specific types of music and types of artists, those artists are sustainable now. Those are the artists that we are motivated by. Those are the artists that we are encouraged by. Who knows what's gonna happen in the future as technology is taking over.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  But as I know and recognize, music, you know, has now put itself in a position where it sells everything but itself. So all of the byproducts and other ancillaries and things like that, they matter more. That's the business of the business. So it's good. But what I've been missing is that process that you have to go through in order to earn your keep. The fact that even if you have tons of people screaming your name, you still gotta perform for them. You still have to show up and make certain that their dollar matters. I am happy that I spent this money, not just because I'm here to sing this hit record, but you really entertained me. You didn't just stand there, you know.

• 27:53Keke Palmer?

  And I feel like there's a level of, I don't wanna say detachment, but there's a level of what I'm hearing and what you're saying, which is, you know what? This is my job and I got a job to do, as opposed to what we feel and experience now, which hey, maybe it's because times have changed. But there's a lot of emotion in the parasocial relationships where it's like, I'm not just here to entertain you. Which, again, it's kinda like, well, what kind of you you are, you know? So it's like, I feel like there's this weird thing that's happened in the change of how we connect to our audience where the artists also wanna feel like they're the audience member and the audience member wants to feel like they're the artist. It's like a weird exchange.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Well, who knows where that thought arrived from? Did it arrive from the fact that there is no mystique in music or anything else now? So I know everything about you, so the fact that I now feel entitled to say to an audience who's spending their hard-earned money to come here and see you, that I don't owe any effort to you, I don't know that that makes sense, but that's just me. But I also too know we live in a different time where nothing is private. I know everything about every person that I know. If I wanna know something, what's going on in your life, I go look at your Instagram or your TikTok or whatever it is, and your profile, and I got it. That didn't exist in our time, so we had to earn the audience, we had to earn the respect of the audience.

• 29:12Keke Palmer?

  I feel like I came up right in the middle because I feel so much of what you're saying. And I feel like I live and do my career that way most of the time. But also, people do end up knowing things that I maybe didn't expect them to know, or it's not what I'm used to. Because coming up, there was a little bit more of, hey, wait a minute, I need to give you my best. I don't wanna give you no bullshit. And so I often am balancing the, hey, I wanna give you my best, I wanna be a performer, but also.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  That all depends on your ambition.

• 29:38Keke Palmer?

  Now wait, what do you mean by that?

• 29:39Speaker 00

  That all depends on your ambition. I want to perform for my audience.

• 29:43Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 29:43Speaker 00

  I ju- I literally care myself because otherwise, why would I sit and, you know, kind of rehearse over and over and over again, sing this song over and over again, try to protect and, you know, perfect my tone so that when I actually use my voice, it sounds great. I sound like the record that I sold you. That's a personal choice, you know? You, you, you gotta understand, we're just living in a different time. I don't wanna seem like a fucking dinosaur, you know?

• 30:08Keke Palmer?

  I don't, you're not sounding like that. We're just being comparing and contrasting.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  Man, my kids is quick to call me a boomer. That's what I'm saying.

• 30:13Keke Palmer?

  You're not a boomer. You're a millennial.

• 30:15Speaker 00

  They will call me a boomer, for real. What I'm saying is, say, talking like this makes them feel that way. So I'm like, I'm ca- I'm like cautionary when I'm moving in any of these directions.

• 30:24Keke Palmer?

  I'm howling.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  But I'm saying, like,

• 30:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  Part, part of where technology and all of those things are assisting us, it's failing us with the authenticity of what it is to be a live performer.

• 30:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  Because now, if I just kind of turn this auto-tune, I ain't really gotta care about really running on a treadmill or either working out and getting my diaphragm in a good place, great place where I can sing, project on key, not flat or sharp, and dance and perform, not be winded, and give you a full show. Those things don't matter as much. So, you know, use the machines. Don't let the machine mu- use you. You know what I'm saying? So, that, that's, that's also two part of it. Like, I'm fighting for the human element of, of entertainment. Not just the, the, you know, the elements that assist us. Part of the reason I named my tour Past, Present, and Future is because I'm finding ways to use both spectrums,

• 31:20Speaker 00

  to find really innovative, creative things to do that brings in an audience that is accustomed to now how we do things. And also to giving them the intimacy that I was raised to create as a live performer. That's what makes me the showman that I am.

• 31:42Keke Palmer?

  Let me put y'all on to something hot. Usher is joining Audible's Words and Music Series with his new title, "The Last Showman." And baby, when I say it's giving everything, I mean everything. Now, I love a behind-the-scenes tell-all, but this, this is the real deal. Audible is taking us even deeper into the world of the king, the legend, the moment over his storied 30-year career in the entertainment industry. Listening to Usher as he looks back at the history of R&B, the genre that he helped shape, reminds me of the importance of retrospection. And looking back, it is so apparent that Mr. Usher, baby, has always been a showman, right from the beginning.

• 32:23Keke Palmer?

  Usher takes us track by track through his record-breaking magnum opus, Confessions, yes, and shares candid stories of scandal, romance, and making music as he evolved from teen sensation to R&B legend. Listen, Confessions had everybody and they mama in they feelings, including me. And y'all don't want to miss this. "The Last Showman" by Usher is out now. Head to audible.com/usher and get ready for the ultimate showman to do what he does best.

• 32:55Keke Palmer?

  How do you keep the mystique that you have in this day and age? Obviously, it's because we've known you for years. I'm sure just the effect of, hey, I'm Usher, they call me U-S-H-E-R. That's a part of it, right? But times change.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:09Keke Palmer?

  You still have current hits. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're still dope, even though the times have changed and having mystique as an artist is not necessarily the thing that people do or can do. How have you been able to continue to evolve your storyline?

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Um, I think part of it is the inevitable nature of the fact that I can't. And I'm now living in everything that chooses to be seen or either is seen, becomes the story.

• 33:40Keke Palmer?

  But you really know how to do it. It's really, I mean, obviously, it's probably just your gift, but it's really cool to see.

• 33:48Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe in another 10 years, we can talk about it and I really understand what I was doing. I'm just living in it. I'm literally, you know, kind of being

• 33:55Keke Palmer?

  Alkalizing.

• 33:56Speaker 00

  as open as I possibly can to new ideas and how things are done versus how things were done. And I'm trying not to be a person who's so conditioned to my past that I'm not considerate of how things have to be done and are inevitably being done. You know, mystique is something that is good and bad. Like, because what I do struggle with now is the fact that I don't feel comfortable doing these kinds of interviews and talking because I don't really know the nature of where it's gonna go. But I fuck with you, so I was like, I'm gonna come sit down with you and we're gonna have a real conversation. And I'm also too, gonna hopefully, you know, be comfortable enough to be able to be vulnerable and talk about life. And, you know, that's what you see and then that's who I am.

• 34:38Speaker 00

  And there's, you know, some judgment that comes with that on the other side, but I don't really get concerned about that. I really am, I'm living my life and I'm trying to be a, you know, a great artist. But greater than that, a good person and a human, right? I'm gonna go through flaws, gonna go through ups and downs. And my entire career has, you know, kind of shown you that. Whether I was talking about it in music or just living through things. I've had some really, really tough times and I've not had anybody to talk to about it. I've not had the opportunity to be able to kind of open up. That's why I really was so excited about this audibles, you know, because it gave me the opportunity to be able to kind of peel the veil back and allow you to look at where I was mentally.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  You know, what happened with me between 87 on one and then making this album that would change my entire life. Everything changed after that album. I could never go back to the lifestyle that I had before.

• 35:32Keke Palmer?

  What was happening in your life at that time that even allowed you to create that album? Because something really key that you just said was I was not able to, and for many years, not able to talk to anybody. Do you think that that, even though that sounds difficult and hard, do you think that that's what you were putting into that music? That that was your freedom is the creation of all that stuff? All those different styles from hip hop to Fred Astaire type stuff to R and B to pop? I mean, you melded so many things.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 36:01Keke Palmer?

  Was that your, I mean, as an artist, that was your release?

• 36:05Speaker 00

  That's my outlet.

• 36:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 36:07Speaker 00

  Um, one.

• 36:11Speaker 00

  People hadn't chosen to be kind of vulnerable, brash, honest, and then take what was happening in their lives and then put it on music. And if they did, they did it in a different way. It was kind of the mending of living in the world of hip hop, but also too, being a vocalist, a performer, a consummate professional, trying to figure out how to dance and sing, and then melding, you know, putting those two ideas together and creating.

• 36:39Speaker 00

  You know, who knows, man? Part of it could have been a little bit of all of it. But I'm trying my hardest to find the things that I think work best. Because, no, I just, I don't have an opportunity to sit down and have these conversations and people care enough, you know what I'm saying? Because there's one thing that I know what the expectation is. Oh, yeah, you gonna talk about your thing, you gonna sell your product, that's gonna be very transactional. But to be able to just really sit down and like, talk about life and perspective, and people care to listen. Because also too, some of it might become like, that ain't relevant to my life. You're not talking about shit that's relevant to me. So you'll probably go through one ear and not the other.

• 37:18Keke Palmer?

  But I think everybody is trying to figure out how to keep the page turning. You know, so that is like, even if you're not an usher, you're not an artist, like, to stay engaged with life, to keep telling your own personal story, whether you are a lawyer, a nurse, a student, you know, we're all looking for the things that can make us keep on and evolve and be engaged with life.

• 37:39Speaker 00

  Well, they say you evolve or you evaporate. One, two, chaos always leads to some perspective. Whether you choose to live in it, chaos is up to you. But it is necessity. It is necessary in order to build. As you said, every lawyer wins a case, but then he's gotta go pick up another one. Every person has a grand moment, and then they're gonna fall again to get back up. Every team can win a championship, they're gonna have to start all over next year. So it's like... That is kind of the practice of what music became to me. So I did use it as an outlet to some extent, but no, I still want more. I want to have more opportunities to be able to share, you know, some perspective.

• 38:22Keke Palmer?

  That's what we need. That's what we need. I'm really glad that you was willing to talk to me too. Like, I really appreciate that.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  I guess getting to the other side of successful moments allow me to be able to give some perspective. I've lived in my suffering long enough to be able to write about those songs. Imagine being able to make an album where I can talk to you about the other side. I can talk to you about the journey of, oh, I completely went to the bottom of this thing that you were so caught up in. And it was no longer about a superficial feeling. It was about something that mattered. And then I got myself into a better mental state. And then I moved forward and here's the things that came to me as opposed to me trying to go after it. To be able to share that would be valuable. Who knows? It could be a book. It could be another Audible. You know, this one was just celebratory because, you know, this magnum opus, Confessions, was like

• 39:14Speaker 00

  the one album that, you know, would make the difference in my life.

• 39:18Keke Palmer?

  As a matter of fact, there was one. Oh, no, I went to the wrong one.

• 39:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:22Keke Palmer?

  Yo, that's hilarious.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  Where the hell you just go, huh?

• 39:29Keke Palmer?

  Yo, that's so funny. But I remember when Confessions came out. And it absolutely changed everything. It was one of those moments where you just like, wait a minute, is this true? This is like, when y'all was creating that, and obviously everybody can check out The Last Showman and really get into it deeper on Audible. But when you were creating that album, did you expect for it to have that feedback? Did you plan how you were going to answer the questions or people were going to ask about what's happening in your life, like?

• 40:00Speaker 00

  No, I didn't.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Because it wasn't that strategic.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Lee about my life only. It was supposed to be about the types of things that we as men deal with. And the reality of what happens. So, no, I wasn't like, let me gear up. I don't know. I was just like, yo, let's sit, let's sit around like this, have real conversations about the shit that we deal with. Like, what you dealing with, bruh? Where you at? What you, what you and your old lady going through? All right, this what I'm going through too, man. Look, this what you get, this what's getting ready to happen. Really? And in that perspective, just start to create titles. I mean, you got it bad. Oh, shit, burn. Oh, it just started. That's, that's always how that process has been. But making confessions was much deeper because we were talking about real toxic shit, you know what I'm saying?

• 40:52Speaker 00

  And, um, you know, I just wanted to make certain that people had a real outlet to not on. Here's another thing I want to say, and I think this is part of the reason I was like, yo, don't fall back, push forward. Here's an opportunity for us to make light of something that people are talking about. Like, let's, and then share your actual talent, because you are one talented girl, man, like woman. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, yo, you got so much talent, show it. And that's when you got, that, what this industry has taught me is that when it gets hot, don't run away from it. When it gets hot, run towards it. Don't run away from the fire, run towards it and actually find the best way to curate it. Because they gonna always have something crazy to say anyway. Why don't you just give them something positive to say?

• 41:38Speaker 00

  Because you chose to make it a beautiful thing.

• 41:39Keke Palmer?

  But I feel like that is something that I would often struggle with. And that's why when I had it.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  All people do. And you know primarily the reason why they do that is because they get caught up in the opinions of other people. And they want the opinions of other people to stop. But it's like, no, you're talking about what made you feel seen too. Because by the way, you ain't the only one that going through it and goes through shit. You going through something too.

• 42:01Keke Palmer?

  And you were right too, when we, because, like, for me, like I told you, I was that girl at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, watching these videos. It's my journey as an artist, as a performer, as somebody that looks up to Usher as the person that has literally been giving us amazing, impactful, cultural, global hits for years, says, let's get up here and dance. That's my moment. No one gets to take that moment from me. That's a moment that I worked years to get from auditioning for In The Mix and not getting a part to starring in that video and getting a chance to show what I could do.

• 42:42Keke Palmer?

  I could talk to you all day and really get into the tea of this industry. But I'd love to end this a wonderful conversation with a game I play with all my guests.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:53Keke Palmer?

  Okay, so it's gonna be pretty much truth or dare, but a little bit with a confession vibe to it. So we can either pick truth, which would be confessions, or we can choose dare. I'm gonna give us two cups and we're just gonna pick from the cups.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 43:09Keke Palmer?

  This is the truth.

• 43:11Speaker 00

  I'm gonna take the truth.

• 43:13Keke Palmer?

  Wow, that was, we got there fast, okay.

• 43:16Keke Palmer?

  Okay, go ahead.

• 43:18Keke Palmer?

  I'm excited.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  Okay, here we go, let's get to it.

• 43:20Keke Palmer?

  If they're bad, it was the producers and not me.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Okay, here we go.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  Let me see, is there any random like kind of process of how I should select?

• 43:30Keke Palmer?

  No.

• 43:31Speaker 00

  It's just whatever it is, okay, cool.

• 43:33Keke Palmer?

  He said it's just whatever it is.

• 43:34Speaker 00

  Okay. If you go back in time, is there a project that you've done that you wish you would have passed on?

• 43:41Keke Palmer?

  Oh, interesting. It can't be She's All That, loved you in that.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  Let me see, if there's anything I could have passed on?

• 43:55Speaker 00

  I don't know that, I'm trying to figure out, I always manage to make them work for me.

• 43:59Keke Palmer?

  I know that's right.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  You know, um, I can say I'm happy that I passed on a couple of them.

• 44:05Keke Palmer?

  You know who, you know.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  And I can say I'm actually unhappy that I passed on a couple of them too. But let me see, which ones that I?

• 44:12Keke Palmer?

  Which one did you pass up that you did, wish you didn't though, real quick?

• 44:15Speaker 00

  Man, I passed up on Dreamgirls. Yeah.

• 44:19Keke Palmer?

  You would have been amazing.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was crazy, man.

• 44:22Keke Palmer?

  What made you, what came into your mind?

• 44:25Speaker 00

  I mean, a myriad of things. It was, there was one of these contentious moments between me and kind of my agent and my mother, because we were trying to figure out how to manage to make a good sense. By the way, I don't really like to talk about this because it always kind of gets sensitive for people who listen. But, um, you know, part of it was kind of the standard of how, you know, artists and creators are paid in this, this town. The other was, A, I'm in the middle of getting ready to launch a tour and there's a huge overhead that I carry for all of the people that I'm getting ready to cancel for, the fans, as well as all of the people whom I employ. I just need to be able to have enough in order to offset what I'm getting ready to say no to.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  I really want to do this, but I need to, I, I gotta cancel an entire tour, so I didn't, I had to pass.

• 45:15Keke Palmer?

  Dang.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  Because we couldn't, we couldn't reach it.

• 45:18Keke Palmer?

  Rick had said something, Rick Famula has said something similar about you. I think you was auditioning or you did a great audition for The Wood too. Do you remember this?

• 45:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:27Keke Palmer?

  That would have been, but you know, it's true. The industry does make you choose at times because people gotta pay their bills, you know? So it is a thing, but I mean, it would have been crazy to see you in the wood.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  Timing is everything though, man. Both of those were about timing because I'm, once again, I didn't have a down season. You said that I've been literally touring forever, right? Until I decided to start having kids and things started slowing down. But I was always either working on a show or working on an album or working on a tour or working on a project or collaboration. So if I didn't plan ahead and say, okay, this moment is specifically for a movie and is there a movie available for me in that moment? It just came out like, will you audition? Yes, I'd love to do this. I had everybody calling me. I had Eddie Murphy calling me. I had Beyonce. Everybody was like, you need to really do this movie. David Geffen, everybody was like, okay. But here is the dilemma that I have. I gotta cancel an entire tour.

• 46:20Speaker 00

  One, I'm gonna disappoint all of my fans in Europe. And also, two, I'm on the track for all of these people that I have to pay. So I need to make something that I can offset and just pay my people. I know I'm not gonna make no money. That's not why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because I really wanna be a part of an incredible story. And I, I regret having passed on that. But, um.

• 46:40Keke Palmer?

  But.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:42Keke Palmer?

  I mean, it happens. I love hearing that.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  I passed on cats, too.

• 46:46Keke Palmer?

  Well, that was good.

• 46:47Speaker 00

  That was good.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  I respect it, you know what I'm saying? But nah, it's, I was, nah, I'm gonna pass.

• 46:53Keke Palmer?

  Let me pull one out. Okay, so this is, I mean, this is for you. What's one song from your discography that you're tired of performing, but fans won't let go of? Is there any song that you feel that way about with all your songs?

• 47:04Speaker 00

  When I'm in Europe, they, they like me to perform this song called Poppy Collar.

• 47:08Keke Palmer?

  I don't remember that.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  See, that's what I'm saying. See, there's, there's other types of music. I do all different types of shit, you know what I'm saying? But no, this is one.

• 47:16Keke Palmer?

  I'm howling.

• 47:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is one song called Poppy Collar.

• 47:18Keke Palmer?

  What does it sound like?

• 47:19Speaker 00

  Hey, let, is, I.

• 47:20Keke Palmer?

  He said, hey, let.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  Poppy collar, don't let him sweat you. It's, it's.

• 47:26Keke Palmer?

  Poppy collar, don't let him sweat you.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  It was like.

• 47:28Keke Palmer?

  What era?

• 47:29Speaker 00

  I mean, we was.

• 47:29Keke Palmer?

  Why are you doing that?

• 47:30Speaker 00

  We was like trying to pop a collar. We was just trying to find something, you know? It was my guy Shakespeare, he, you know what I'm saying? He had ideas.

• 47:36Keke Palmer?

  He was ready for a dance. Soulja Boy must've been big at that time, and this was your.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  No, Soulja Boy wasn't nowhere. Anybody know who Soulja Boy was? Soulja Boy was, uh, uh, Soulja Boy.

• 47:46Keke Palmer?

  Soulja Boy?

• 47:47Speaker 00

  Soulja Boy, no. Um, no, at the time, it was, you know, it was a huge dance video. And we were trying to manage to make, and it's huge over there. They love that song.

• 47:57Keke Palmer?

  It's so interesting what is huge in other places. Like, and it, it, it ain't your thing, but it's like the thing that they love. I was just about to say something that, oh, when I was little.

• 48:07Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:08Keke Palmer?

  Woo, let me say. My cousin and my sister, every time we was in the car, this was, I forget which album this was of yours, but it's when you were like, "Now tell me..."

• 48:18Speaker 00

  Nice as luck.

• 48:19Keke Palmer?

  Nice as luck, okay? So every time, that was on the radio, round the clock, round the clock. When I tell you, every time you would get to, because I mean, I loved you, but when you said the freaky part, I was like, ew, ew, gross. And every time, my cousin and my sister would be pulling my hands off my ear, like, "You need to listen."

• 48:36Speaker 00

  You need to hear this. You need to hear this, girl.

• 48:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I was like, oh my gosh. I'm like, "Turn it off, turn it off." Oh my gosh, that made me think about that. Okay, let's do another question.

• 48:46Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  My truth.

• 48:52Keke Palmer?

  Your truth, your confessions, Usher. Give me his confessions yet again.

• 48:58Keke Palmer?

  Oh, this is similar to what we were talking about just a second ago, but is there a song you passed on that became a hit for someone else?

• 49:08Speaker 00

  Um, "Just a Friend." Mario's "Just a Friend." Um, let me see.

• 49:17Keke Palmer?

  "I say you're just a friend."

• 49:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:22Keke Palmer?

  What made you pass on it?

• 49:23Speaker 00

  Um, I don't know. I think it was just a matter of the sequencing of the record. It was a jamming record. And later on, they actually even released my, like, put out online, my version of it. Um, yeah.

• 49:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, okay. Do another one. "I'm just having too much fun with you." Oh, I mean, I feel like this was... I asked this one, but I just feel like, you don't even seem like the kind of person that gets embarrassed. It says, "Tell your most embarrassing moment on stage." Have you ever had? I mean, you was pulling your pants off on stage.

• 49:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I don't really...

• 49:58Keke Palmer?

  You don't get embarrassed, that's fine. Hey, hold on.

• 50:03Keke Palmer?

  This is interesting, because you're a Libra, right?

• 50:07Keke Palmer?

  What's the most diva thing you've done on tour?

• 50:11Speaker 00

  The most diva thing I've done?

• 50:12Keke Palmer?

  Like, do you have any special requirements? Like, there's gotta be two lemons, one tea, duh duh duh. I need a trampoline. Like, do you have any crazy wild writers?

• 50:19Speaker 00

  You know the thing about diva-type behavior? I don't think the diva ever knows that they're being diva. So it just seems normal to me. It's not normal?

• 50:27Keke Palmer?

  Sasha, ask your team.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, you might want to ask them, because I, it just seems normal for me to have all of the things that you need to have for your voice. And, you know, like-

• 50:35Keke Palmer?

  This tells me that you, everything is diva. Everything.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  No, I mean, but I don't need the lights. See, I didn't say you, you need the lights dumb, damn down at a certain level.

• 50:43Keke Palmer?

  They actually did tell me that. They actually told me that you wanted the other lights to be-

• 50:46Speaker 00

  Well, it's a little bit too bright. I want to just tell you that. But, um, also too, and I don't see any white flowers in here. This is a problem for me. Hey, you need to let it be known. See, I mean, you're so, it's so likely that you're gonna stumble into some bad lighting. You know what I'm saying? So you gotta make certain that it's always, you know, right for you.

• 51:00Keke Palmer?

  Funny.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  Um, but nah, red licorice in every, in every, um, you know, kit that I have. I gotta make certain of it. Yeah.

• 51:09Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  Black cherry sodas, need to have them.

• 51:11Keke Palmer?

  Black cherry sodas?

• 51:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:13Keke Palmer?

  Black, he said, yeah. White flowers?

• 51:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, but just, yeah, white flowers and it's chic. You know what I'm saying?

• 51:20Keke Palmer?

  It's chic.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  It's chic.

• 51:20Keke Palmer?

  It's the hand of chic.

• 51:23Keke Palmer?

  All right, Usher, I guess I gotta let you go. This is so sad. I've had a blast with you. Ooh, this is the last one, for real.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 51:31Keke Palmer?

  I've been playing around, I was trying to trick you just then. How old were you when you had your first kiss? And who was it? That's a sweet one we'll end on.

• 51:38Speaker 00

  How old was I when I had my first kiss? Um, that I actually intended to have?

• 51:45Keke Palmer?

  Now, wait a minute.

• 51:47Speaker 00

  You know, I had, I, you know, there was a couple of, you know-

• 51:51Keke Palmer?

  Okay. Well, you know what? That one's stupid. It's out. Your favorite song ever that you've done? Your favorite song of yourself. And you could, if you want to pick one, your favorite one to sing-

• 52:03Speaker 00

  I don't remember the girl's name, by the way. I'm trying to remember the girl's name. Yeah, I was trying to remember the girl's name.

• 52:06Keke Palmer?

  Just shout her out. She got five kids now.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, she do. Right, damn, man. Yeah, man, but I don't, I don't, yeah.

• 52:14Keke Palmer?

  You gotta find it on Facebook.

• 52:15Speaker 00

  I don't remember my first, but I do remember the song playing on the radio. It was Secret Lovers and it was playing on the radio.

• 52:21Keke Palmer?

  Secret lovers, yeah. That's what we are trying so hard to find the way we feel. Yes.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Um, but I don't remember her name.

• 52:34Keke Palmer?

  Now that's gonna be a gift, the Secret Lovers.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  The question you should have asked is, was it with Tongue, see?

• 52:39Keke Palmer?

  Ooh. Now I feel the same as.

• 52:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was too young to even be thinking like that. Now I have a question for you, because I've asked a lot of truths of you. I mean, you've asked a lot of truths of me, can I ask a truth of you?

• 52:51Keke Palmer?

  I would love this, let's do it.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  Okay, cool, a truth of you, and I don't have it on the thing. Is it true that I am single-handedly the reason that you were having issues in your heart? I just.

• 53:04Keke Palmer?

  Usher, you know there's, that's not true.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  I know, I'm just saying. Please tell them that. No, no, no.

• 53:11Keke Palmer?

  The people was in your comments, they was like, yet again, they brought up that Boondocks episode.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude.

• 53:16Keke Palmer?

  They brought it out.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  They be on me. I am not responsible for how you choose to react to what I do as an entertainer.

• 53:23Keke Palmer?

  I do love that that is, I mean, if there's like a thing that somebody would be known for is just being just bomb. Hey, I think that's a good one for you.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  You came to have a good time that night.

• 53:33Keke Palmer?

  I did, and I did have a good time.

• 53:35Speaker 00

  By the way, if you didn't wear what you wore, I wouldn't have seen you.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  You was fabulous, amazing, I was like, whoa, KK, come here, come here, girl, ay, ay, ay, KK, let's go. Come on, let's, let's, let's make a moment, baby.

• 53:47Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, let's make a moment, baby. Y'all had that camera, I was like, I gotta gag him real quick. And we, and the funny thing was, I, even my little dance, I was like.

• 53:56Speaker 00

  He's having fun, man.

• 53:56Keke Palmer?

  I tried to do a little something.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. They tried to, they tried to make it seem like I single-handedly had something to do with you.

• 54:02Keke Palmer?

  No, guys, it's not, Usher, you know, people have problems, relationships have up and downs.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  People go through shit.

• 54:06Keke Palmer?

  If Usher ends up being there, it's just a coincidence.

• 54:13Keke Palmer?

  But afterwards, I met Jennifer. I mean, it was such a nice night, honestly. Now, the things you guys don't see.

• 54:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:19Keke Palmer?

  But I'm glad they seen this, and I'm glad you came to the show.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  I'm so happy that I got a chance to be able to see you in your glory. I love seeing you continue to glow and grow. Every time I see you, always are like positive and always like full of incredible energy. You deserve this and so much more. Here's to Oscars to you, here's to Golden Globes to you, here's to whatever awards come with what we're doing here. I think that you an incredible woman.

• 54:45Keke Palmer?

  Can I have a hug?

• 54:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, man, come on.

• 54:47Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, man, you always.

• 54:53Keke Palmer?

  All right, y'all, that's a wrap on today's episode. I loved every minute of the conversation. I mean, it seemed like Usher isn't just a smooth singer and dancer, but he pretty smooth navigating life, too. I guess my takeaway is that you gotta do what's best for you. Keep evolving and engaging in life the best ways you can, running into the hard stuff as he so put it, because that's what's going to get you to the other side of creating something great. And I would say to also not be afraid to share, because you never know who you're helping in the process by sharing what you've been through or what you've experienced. Anyway, hope you guys enjoy. I'll catch you next time, because you know it's your girl.

• 55:40Keke Palmer?

  Enjoy Baby This Is Keke Palmer on the Wondery app, wherever you get your podcasts, and now on YouTube, where you can watch full episodes. Subscribe to the Wondery channel on YouTube and don't miss any episodes. You can listen to Baby This Is Keke Palmer early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

• 56:04Keke Palmer?

  Baby This Is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Segal is our post-producer. Music supervisor is Scott Valesquez. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer. For Team Kiki, my producer is Sharon Palmer. For Wondery, our managing producer is Olivia Fonte. Our producer is Tristan McNeil. Senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Candace Manriquez-Britt. Our executive producers are Dave Easton and Marshall Louie.