Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran

In 2019, 38-year-old Michael Cochran suddenly died. Prosecutors say it was his wife Natalie, who poisoned him with insulin in order to hide her $2 million Ponzi scheme, which she ran for two years. -- This episode is sponsored by: SKIMS https://skims.com/ - select “podcast” in the survey and select our show in the dropdown menu that follows! Nutrafol https://nutrafol.com/ - promo code: KENDALLRAEGIFT Check out my foundation: Higher Hope Foundation: https://www.higherhope.org/ Watch my documentaries: 530 Days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjUWkmOjNLkApartment 801: https://bit.ly/2RJ9XXr True Crime with Kendall Rae podcast: Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3rks84oSpotify: https://spoti.fi/3jC66pr Shop my Merch! https://kendallrae.shop https://kendallrae.shop/ Check out my other podcasts: Mile Higher (True Crime) @milehigherpod YouTube: https://bit.ly/2ROzJcw Instagram: http://instagram.com/milehigherpod The Sesh (Current events, a little true crime, pop culture, and commentary) https://bit.ly/3Mtoz4X @the_seshpodcast Instagram: https://bit.ly/3a9t6Xr *Follow My Social!* @KendallRaeOnyt Instagram: http://instagram.com/kendallraeonyt Facebook: https://bit.ly/3kar4NK True Crime TikTok: https://bit.ly/3VDbc77 Personal TikTok: https://bit.ly/41hmRKg REQUESTS: General case suggestion form: https://zfrmz.com/yg9cuiWjUe2QY3hSC2V0Form for people directly related/ close to the victim: https://zfrmz.com/HGu2hZso42aHxARt1i67 Join my discord to chat with other viewers about this video, it’s free! https://discord.com/invite/an4stY9BCN C O N T A C T: For Business Inquiries - [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Send me mail: Kendall Rae 8547 E Arapahoe Rd Ste J #233 Greenwood Village, CO 80112

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Kendall Rae?

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• 0:43Kendall Rae?

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• 1:07Kendall Rae?

  Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates. Where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options. You can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, the kitchen cabinet locks and the baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

• 1:51Kendall Rae?

  Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of True Crime with Kendall Rae. Thank you so much for joining me today. And if you are new to the show, then welcome. I'm so happy to have you here and I hope you guys are all having a great day. At least maybe an okay day. But anyway, today I have a wild case. For you guys, it seems like for the most part, I cover really three types of cases. I cover obviously murders and attempted murders. And then I also cover financial frauds, Ponzi schemes, things like that. And then also people who fake illnesses, and most of the time that's cancer. And the case that I am going to be telling you about today involves all three of those.

• 2:36Kendall Rae?

  We're going to be talking about Natalie and Michael Cochrane. And by all accounts, they seem to be living a very luxurious, happy life, happy couple. But it was all a lie. This case is definitely going to piss you off. It's equal parts infuriating and heartbreaking and just mind blowing. How someone can think they're going to get away with doing everything that she did. Also, I wanted to cover this case because this just went to trial in January of 2025. So this is very, very recent. I know you guys are going to have a lot to say on this one. I have a lot to say on this one. And I just already have so many thoughts coming to my head. So I want to just jump into it.

• 3:20Kendall Rae?

  And I want to start out by telling you more about Michael Cochrane. So Michael Brandon Cochrane was born on December 23rd of 1980 in Beckley, West Virginia. And he was actually an only child to his parents, Donna and Michael. But when he was eight, his stepdad Ed Bolt came into the picture. And the two of them grew incredibly close. In an interview where she talked about his childhood, Donna said that Michael Brandon was quite an impressive kid. She talked about how he never missed a day of school, how he was always on the principal's honor list, and how he was often involved in after school clubs. Now, she didn't specifically say what those clubs were, so I'm not sure what he was involved with. But if I had to guess, they definitely had something to do with sports and possibly leadership as well.

• 4:04Kendall Rae?

  Because Michael was a very athletic person. He loved sports from a super young age, and that passion only grew as he got older. He also just had a major passion for his health. And he got really into lifting weights when he was younger. He actually got His first set of barbells at just the age of 10. And she said one of his favorite things to do was just go into his room, blast his music and work out. And when he got a little older, he even got first place in a powerlifting competition. And his mother was super, super proud of him for that. And it was actually at a sporting goods, fitness type store that he ended up meeting Natalie Jessup. Michael was just 17 at the time and he had actually gone into the store with his mom.

• 4:48Kendall Rae?

  And Natalie just happened to be at the register. And Donna said that while they were at the store, she definitely noticed some flirting going on. And when they left, she even brought it up to Michael and said, "That girl was definitely flirting with you," which he kind of brushed off. But not too long after that, Donna found out that the two of them were dating. And their relationship progressed very quickly. They both graduated high school and attended West Virginia University, where Michael studied information technology and Natalie studied to become a pharmacist. And to most people's surprise, who knew them, they ended up getting engaged their first semester of college. So things, like I said, happened very, very quickly. In November of 1999, Natalie called Donna and said that they were getting married.

• 5:32Kendall Rae?

  And by May of 2000, they tied the knot. Now, from her interviews, Donna seemed to not be a big fan of this idea at all. And, you know, she was concerned that things were moving so quickly and she wanted him to focus on school. And she expressed that to them, but by this point, the ball was already rolling. And unfortunately, something happened their senior year of college that caused a slight rift in the family. Now Donna has kept the details private, so I'm not exactly sure what happened. But in her interview, she basically said that something happened and it sparked some problems. And whatever it was, Michael apologized for it, but Natalie never did.

• 6:14Kendall Rae?

  And I guess there had already been problems with her too, especially leading up to the wedding. I guess leading up to the big day, Natalie blew up at Donna over something. And I'm not sure if it's related to the other situation that they haven't been public about or what. But basically, she tried- Tried to keep Donna and Ed from even going to their son's wedding, which is very, very sad. You would think you would want your parents, your partner's parents to participate in such a big day for the sake of your partner, right? I mean, he was very close with his parents and that's one thing that is very frustrating about Natalie is she's always tried to push this narrative that Michael wasn't close with his parents and that's not true at all. I mean, every family, of course, has their problems and whatnot.

• 6:59Kendall Rae?

  And many people, for whatever reason, don't want their parents at their wedding or want to X them out of their lives and I totally get that, but that is just not the case here at all. And to say that they weren't involved in his life, which is another narrative she tried to push, is just a blatant lie. And actually, recently it has come to light that she was lying to Donna and Ed, saying that Michael didn't want to be around them and that was all just to try and keep them out of his life. But jumping back into the timeline here, Natalie and Michael went on to have two kids, a son and a daughter, and because their son is still a minor, I'm not going to be sharing his name or any photos of him with you today.

• 7:41Kendall Rae?

  But their other daughter Nicole is, I believe, around at least 20-ish years old and has been, you know, featured in the media and everything, so you will hear me mention her by name. But anyway, the four of them settled into Daniel's West Virginia on a beautiful four-acre property that Michael practically renovated from top to bottom. And by all accounts, they were a normal, happy family, living a very nice life. Michael was working in IT and Natalie had a very nice job as a pharmacist and they were also very active in their community. Michael was super involved in coaching his son's baseball and football teams and she was described as a sports socialite,

• 8:24Kendall Rae?

  who took on managing sports-related events, ordering jerseys and things like that. She was even the treasurer of the middle school baseball program. And through everything they were involved in, that's how the Cochran ended up meeting a lot of their friends. Chris and Jennifer Davis were probably their Closest friends and Chris ended up being a coach right alongside Michael. And he also became their family attorney. And soon enough, they were even going on vacations together, spending tons of time together. And because Natalie was a pharmacist, she ended up being a very valuable asset to the Davises when they found out that one of their sons had type 1 diabetes. Natalie actually specialized in diabetes management. So when he was diagnosed, she was the one teaching Chris and Jennifer everything they needed to know,

• 9:08Kendall Rae?

  from giving insulin shots to managing the disease, giving them tips. And I personally get the sense that the Cochran really were a family that a lot of people would turn to because they always seemed like they were willing to lend a hand. One of their new friends was a woman named Toni, a mother. And she had actually lost her husband to leukemia. Keep that in mind because it's important later. But she said that when her husband passed. Michael really stepped up and tried to be a somewhat of a father figure to her children. Toni has three kids and Michael took them fishing and to sports practices. And he really became super involved in each of their lives,

• 9:50Kendall Rae?

  which I think speaks very highly about Michael's character. Now, jumping forward a bit, in 2017, Natalie announced that she was quitting her job as a pharmacist and she was going to be starting a new business, a government contracting business. And she did this because she was inspired by the movie War Dogs, which is a movie that I had never seen. I'm surprised I've never seen it because it's very similar, in my opinion, to Wolf on Wall Street, which is one of my favorite movies of all time. And I decided to watch it last night just to get a better sense of where Natalie's head was at because this actually, the movie comes up again later on. And I really enjoyed it.

• 10:29Kendall Rae?

  It's wild and it was interesting to learn more about this world of government contracting businesses because it was actually something I really knew nothing about. But if you haven't seen it, War Dogs is a movie starring Jonah Hill and Miles Teller. And they take advantage of a government initiative that allows businesses to bid on military contracts. In the movie. Which is inspired by a true story, actually. They land this $300 million contract where they have to supply ammunition to the Afghan National Army. And this is a little bit of a spoiler alert, so if you want to watch the movie, maybe just skip a couple of seconds forward, but it's not too much of a spoiler. Basically, they end up way in over their heads because they put in a bid for a contract and it is,

• 11:13Kendall Rae?

  like, I can't remember exactly, I want to say like $50 million less than the competing offers. And so they like, kind of did the math wrong and have to cut corners to try and fill the agreement. And eventually, they end up in prison. And it's crazy because the foreshadowing of her loving this movie so much and being inspired to start her business because of it, is just honestly uncanny. And what blew my mind, and the reason I decided to watch it for myself is because Natalie would tell her friends that she would have new employees watch the movie as an onboarding video, which makes zero sense to me.

• 11:56Kendall Rae?

  Why would you ever want to set your employees up to think this is how we're going to do things? Or this is what could happen to us? It's just concerning on so many levels and so whack. Not to mention, it's just so unprofessional on so many levels. To have something like War Dogs be an onboarding video for any company, to have a movie be an onboarding video for new employees, wild shit.

• 12:25Kendall Rae?

  My husband had braces growing up, and like so many people, he did not continue to wear his retainers as he got older. And he didn't want to go through the whole braces process again, so that's how we found SmileSet. And it could not be easier, you guys. My husband is currently straightening his teeth while he sleeps. SmileSet delivers doctor prescribed clear aligners for under $1,900. That's 60% less than traditional braces or in-office treatment. And what's so cool is a licensed doctor reviews your case and builds you your own custom treatment plan. You start with an at-home impression kit and your aligner- Chip straight to you. Progress is then monitored remotely through the SmileSet app with Dr. Treckins available whenever you want them.

• 13:07Kendall Rae?

  SmileSet has treatment options and payment plans that fit around your life. And like my husband is doing, nighttime only aligners mean you can straighten your teeth while you sleep. And monthly payments start at just $89. There have been over 2 million smiles treated with this technology. And they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee after starting treatment. Listeners of my show get an additional 35% discount when they go to smileset.com/tckr. With this discount, you can get the smile of your dreams for under 1,200 bucks. Go to smileset.com/tckr to get started. Smileset.com/tckr. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates. Where do you even start?

• 13:52Kendall Rae?

  Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options. You can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, the kitchen cabinet locks, and the baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

• 14:21Kendall Rae?

  And for those who don't know, which was me before learning about this case and watching War Dogs myself, a government contract business is a company that provides goods and services to the government in exchange for payment. For a long time, when it came to government contracts for the military, at least, and forgive me if I sound dumb here, I don't completely understand this world. But from what I do understand, for the most part, those contracts were offered to huge businesses, huge corporations. And at some point, the government decided to kind of level the playing field a little bit by offering some of those contracts to smaller businesses as well. And really, anyone, any small business, any civilian can bid for a government contract.

• 15:06Kendall Rae?

  For example, and forgive me because this is the best example I can come up with, and I'm very, you know, new to this world. I have no idea how it really works. But let's say the government is putting out a request for...

• 15:19Kendall Rae?

  30,000 cases of ammunition. This request gets submitted online and then businesses can submit their bids to try and win the contract. And one company might offer to get them the amount at a lesser price, but it's going to take longer to fulfill the contract. And, you know, X, Y, Z, everyone's, you know, offer is a little bit different. And then the government can choose which offer they want to go with. But then you have to fall through and fill the request. And obviously, if you don't fill the request, then you're not getting paid. And this is what Natalie said her new business Tactical Solutions Group, or TSG, was doing. And just like in War Dogs, a big part of their business was supplying weapons.

• 16:02Kendall Rae?

  And they also sold healthcare equipment as well and other sort of big ticket items like that. And I think their website has been taken down now, which you'll understand why later. But at some point Natalie had wrote that they were a leading supplier of the Department of Defense, the CIA, and Homeland Security. But to get to that point, obviously, they needed startup costs. And who did Natalie turn to for that money? Their own friends, family, and community members. And that's what makes this case so frustrating. Well, many things make this case very frustrating and upsetting. But the fact that she went after people that she actually knew and cared about, their

• 16:46Kendall Rae?

  own family, friends, and community members, is just sick on so many levels. Because people trusted her. They gave them this money for their business to help them get it going. And little did they all know, this business was a total Ponzi scheme. And to very loosely explain what that means, basically, money that she was using from new investors was going to pay off money that she owed to old investors. And through her conniving ways, she convinced people who trusted her, who cared about her, that they should pour their savings into TSG. And she was very strategic about how she did it. Natalie would tell people that she liked to be the last bidder, so that nobody could

• 17:30Kendall Rae?

  bid higher than her. And because of that, she wouldn't give people a lot of time to think about whether or not they wanted to invest. And not only that, she would also tell people that the contracts were part of classified government programs, very top secret. So people... Couldn't ask her a lot of questions and obviously that was a strategic move as well. So Chris Davis said that Natalie approached him and Jennifer after church one day of all places about fulfilling a contract for dental labs and in total, they would end up investing $511,000. And then there's this, which really breaks my heart. I mean, it breaks my heart for everyone that's

• 18:11Kendall Rae?

  involved with the fact that she would do this to her in-laws is just mind blowing. But Donna invested just over $245,000 and this was all of her and Ed's retirement savings. And Natalie essentially convinced Donna to go ahead and make this investment because she told her that her own mother had already made a return of $60,000. So obviously that was appealing to them and they also wanted to support their son's business, Ventures, so they decided to go ahead and do it. And whether it was Donna or the Davises or somebody else, Natalie always said that they could expect large returns in a short amount of time.

• 18:52Kendall Rae?

  And truth be told, from the way everyone describes it, they all felt like they could really trust her and they described it as sort of a group mentality, you know, that they saw how well their family was doing and they had this idea of, okay, well, this other couple that I know or other family I know is investing and they're smart people. So if they're going to do it, I don't see why we wouldn't do it. And as far as Michael's role in all of this, which I'm sure you guys are wondering about, he eventually started working for TSG full-time too, but his job was really only to seek out the contracts. People who knew them often described Natalie as sort of the brains behind

• 19:35Kendall Rae?

  the operation. Not that Michael wasn't smart, but Natalie was really the one conducting the business for the most part. So it was Natalie who was responsible for everything that happened after, everything from fulfilling orders to handling the money to, you know, everything in between. And in terms of the official split on the business, she was listed as the 51% owner. And he had the other 49, which they told people that they did this so that they could label themselves as a woman owned business in order to hopefully get more contracts. And it seemed like they were getting a ton of them. The Cochran really went from living a very comfortable, happy life to a life of total luxury.

• 20:17Kendall Rae?

  They bought more properties, more cars, more jewelry, more vacations, luxury goods. They even bought an airplane hangar because Michael liked planes and was working on getting his pilot's license. Now, Michael actually did do a ton of charitable things with all of this new money, like donating a weight room to a local school and buying a house for the youth pastor, who was about to become homeless. And at one point, they told Tony that they were even going to buy a town in Africa and build homes for everyone who lived there. And truth be told, Michael definitely did do a lot of spending, which, you know, gets pointed out later on in the case, but you have to really keep two things in mind. One, he didn't grow up like this at all. So suddenly having all this money was very exciting for him.

• 21:02Kendall Rae?

  And, you know, he was living a completely new lifestyle. And two, he really trusted the woman that he was in love with, his business partner, that this money was legitimately theirs. And speaking of legitimacy, I wanted to point something out here that's really crucial. TSG was technically a legitimate business. Natalie filed all the paperwork and it was established as a real company, but that's all she ever did. She also did the same for their second company as well, which was called Technical Management Solutions, or TMS. And TMS was supposedly an IT company that provided technology consulting services.

• 21:44Kendall Rae?

  And I bring this up because one thing that a lot of people really question here is, how did Michael not know? And I think the simplest explanation I can give you to make sense of that is, Natalie was very good at manipulating people. She was a master manipulator. Plus, it obviously would have been a lot harder to convince him about all of this and how legitimate it was if she didn't. Set it up as a legitimate business and she really did that to keep him and anyone else from finding out what was truly going on and didn't really work too well because people did end up finding out because those returns she promised. Yeah, they never came in. What's shocking though is that Natalie was really able to keep people at bay for quite a long

• 22:29Kendall Rae?

  time and it wasn't just adults she was stealing from. She was also stealing from kids. It turns out, and God, this is slimy beyond words, but she was actually taking money from that baseball league that she became the treasurer of. To give you a little more information and background on that, in February of 2018, there was a fundraiser to raise money for the Shady Spring baseball and volleyball teams. And this was just wild to me. I mean, maybe to some of you, it's not so insane. But I guess here we are, living in these current times. But I guess TSG was claiming to donate semi-automatic weapons as bingo prizes at the fundraiser. And apparently,

• 23:13Kendall Rae?

  it was a big hit because they ended up raising $32,000 and half of it went to the baseball team and the other half of it went to the volleyball team. But as you can imagine, since this is Natalie, a few weird things happened. And for starters, a $16,000 check that was written from TSG bounced, suggesting that Natalie did not have the funds because they didn't exist. And secondly, when an audit was performed in May and June of that year, it revealed that all of the money in their account was gone.

• 23:50Kendall Rae?

  My husband had braces growing up and like so many people, he did not continue to wear his retainers as he got older. And he didn't want to go through the whole braces process again. So that's how we found Smile Set. And it could not be easier, you guys. My husband is currently straightening his teeth while he sleeps. Smile Set delivers doctor prescribed clear aligners for under $1,900. That's 60% less than traditional braces or in-office treatment. And what's so cool is Licensed doctor reviews your case and builds you your own custom treatment plan. You start with an at home impression kit and your aligners chip straight to you. Progress is then monitored remotely through the Smile Set app with doctor check-ins available whenever you want them.

• 24:32Kendall Rae?

  Smile Set has treatment options and payment plans that fit around your life. And like my husband is doing, nighttime only aligners mean you can straighten your teeth while you sleep and monthly payments start at just $89. There have been over 2 million smiles treated with this technology and they offer a 30 day money back guarantee after starting treatment. Listeners of my show get an additional 35% discount when they go to smileset.com/tckr. With this discount, you can get the smile of your dreams for under 1,200 bucks. Go to smileset.com/tckr to get started. Smileset.com/tckr. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start?

• 25:17Kendall Rae?

  Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options. You can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, the kitchen cabinet locks and the baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 25:46Kendall Rae?

  A few people realized that a bunch of transactions were being made from the account when nobody on the board had approved purchases. And so they ended up hiring a P I to conduct an audit. And that's when they saw there was only $32 left. And the stolen money went towards purchases, including $1,142 spent at a sporting goods store, $2,099 spent on Yeti cooler items, $402 on a bow and arrow, plus Amazon purchases, just random things, ATM withdrawals, money spent at TJ Maxx and Home Goods and places like Olive Garden, just a bunch of random stuff. And considering Natalie.

• 26:28Kendall Rae?

  Was the treasurer and these purchases were made after she got that role. It seemed like she was probably responsible, but surprisingly, nothing official was ever done about it. However, people definitely started to question things such as their own personal investments in TSG. Towards the end of 2018 and into the beginning of 2019, investors were coming to the Cochran, wondering where the hell their returns were. But Michael often didn't know what to say to people and he only knew as much as his wife had told him. And she was telling everyone, Michael included, excuse after excuse. And one of her early excuses was that the company was being audited and her accounts were frozen.

• 27:11Kendall Rae?

  But the money would go through as soon as that was over, so no worries there, people. And then another big excuse, which happened to really just be coincidental and quite convenient for Natalie, had to do with the December 2018 government shutdown. Because if the government wasn't paying people, then of course neither could she. And boy, was she lucky with that one. Then another excuse, and this is where the faking an illness element comes into play for Natalie. After the government shutdown was over, obviously she needed a new excuse. And she started telling people that she had cancer, as if it couldn't get any worse at this, at this point. And it gets much worse from here. She lied about having leukemia. And she even told people that she wasn't going to seek treatment.

• 27:56Kendall Rae?

  She was going to let God take care of it, that they were going to just let her live out whatever was left of her life and hope for the best. And obviously that terrified her friends and family. And some of them even went and got their bone marrow tested to see if they were a match and could possibly help to save her life. But remember her friend Tony and how her husband had actually tragically passed due to leukemia? Well, she immediately knew something was up because Natalie said that she was in stage three. And she knew that leukemia is not described in stages, it's described in types. Natalie also showed her a bald spot in the back of her head. Flip her hair down and show this to people.

• 28:40Kendall Rae?

  And she said that it was, of course, from chemo. But Tony said it looked like she had just shaved a patch in the back of her head to try to make it look like she was losing hair. And I'm gonna be honest with you guys. I'm not sure what Michael's knowledge was of this. I would imagine he knew, since friends of theirs were trying to get involved. But when it comes to this whole part of the story, I don't really have much more information than that. I will say, I do think it would be incredibly difficult to fake having cancer to a partner. But at the same time, Natalie, like I said, she's a master manipulator. She's incredibly convincing and she was very thorough, too. Get this, she would send her investors emails and letters pretending to be people

• 29:23Kendall Rae?

  from different government agencies, explaining to them why they hadn't gotten their money. She straight up used a Department of Defense letterhead, claiming to be someone from the department. And the sad part of it is, as I mentioned earlier, that these schemes rely heavily on trust. And the people that she got to invest trusted her. I mean, they were people who, like I said, cared about her. And that's what makes this, oh, my God, so heartbreaking. And what's really, really sad is some of these people never got any of their money back at all. I know that Michael's mom, Donna, for example, didn't get a penny from Natalie at any point, which makes sense when you think about all the cash that Natalie pocketed

• 30:04Kendall Rae?

  and was spending on herself and her family and all these new cars and upgrades of their house and, you know, all these different things. And listen to this, Natalie was going around telling people that her business was worth $500 million. And I could really just go on and on about all this shit that she did in terms of the fraud part of things. But really, that could just be an episode all on its own. So for the purposes of this episode, though, the most important thing to know is that Natalie was running a lucrative Ponzi scheme where she defrauded 11 people and several banks also into supplying her with more than $2.5 million. And as February of 2019-

• 30:48Kendall Rae?

  Approached, a lot of people were starting to get fed up. Michael included. His mom and his friends were now coming to him, asking him tons of questions about their money, questions he didn't even know how to answer. And he was just as confused about why they weren't getting their money. Just listen to these text messages. On January 31st, 2019, Natalie texted Michael, "I'm on the phone with Bank of America." To which Michael responded, "Are we 1,000%?" Natalie said, "Yes, she is sending them with tracking." Then on February 4th, Michael texted her saying, "Money isn't there." And Natalie replied saying, "I know. They said even if it came in at 7:00 a.m., it wouldn't show until 9:00 a.m." And she followed that up with,

• 31:32Kendall Rae?

  "Spoke to wire department. All four transmitting the 88 and 297 will possibly show up today. The 4.8 million in the AM and the 23.8 million tomorrow sometime." The amounts held them up, but they have them all and they aren't NOFAC or anything like that. Then Michael's response was, "I don't understand why it's taking so long. It's Bank of America to Bank of America." And she told him that they're just, quote, "verifying funds because of large amounts and new account." To which Michael lastly replied with, "Doesn't make sense to me." Now to me, and I'm sure to a lot of you too, you'll have to let me know your opinions on these texts, but to me, these texts don't sound like a guy who knew that this was a Ponzi scheme.

• 32:16Kendall Rae?

  I mean, I think he was completely in the dark when it came to that side of things. And he was sure as hell getting close to figuring it out, though. So on February 6th, 2019, he and Natalie were scheduled to charter a flight to Virginia to visit a specific Bank of America branch. And while Bank of America thought that they were meeting to discuss opening a new bank account, where Natalie said they would be depositing millions and millions of dollars, Michael thought that they were going to discuss why they hadn't been paid. And they hadn't been paid because these accounts never existed. So obviously, to keep the lies going, it was crucial to Natalie that the meeting didn't happen. Otherwise, Michael was gonna realize the truth and shocker.

• 33:01Kendall Rae?

  The meeting did not happen. That morning, just before 7 a.m. Natalie texted the bank representative and the pilot that she and Michael had to postpone because she was sick. And I don't know if she was really sick, but she did go to the doctor's office that day where she received a steroid shot. Which actually was the second steroid shot that she supposedly received. Two days earlier, she had texted her friend Stephanie Hamilton, who was a physician, to ask if she could prescribe her steroids because she said she had pneumonia. And Stephanie had no problem with that, so she said that she would get her some steroid pills. But Natalie specifically requested an injectable one and said that she was completely fine administering it herself. So just keep that in mind. Alright, so after the doctor's visit on the 6th,

• 33:47Kendall Rae?

  Natalie went home and around that time, she texted Jennifer Davis explaining the situation about the canceled flight and being too sick to fly. And in these texts, she mentions that her doctor had given her a high dose of steroids. And she basically said that the sickness that she had was made worse because she also has cancer. And so the steroids were supposed to help. And she also said that she had to start taking insulin shots because the steroid was causing her blood sugar to increase. And being a good friend, Jennifer asked if she could help in any way, to which Natalie asked to borrow a vial of insulin from her son.

• 34:25Kendall Rae?

  And keep in mind that because Natalie was once a pharmacist, Jennifer just trusted that this was what the insulin was for. But if she was really supposed to take it, obviously her doctor would have just prescribed it to her. But she wasn't, so he didn't. Not knowing this though, Jennifer went ahead and put the insulin in a bag along with some other get well soon items, just you know, trying to be a good friend. And then she had her husband Chris drop them off at the Cochran's house. So he dropped that off around 10:30 a.m. And then only two hours later, both Chris and Jennifer received a very frightening text message from Natalie. And it was actually a picture of Michael collapsed on the kitchen floor.

• 35:09Kendall Rae?

  And when they asked what happened, Natalie made it seem like everything was fine. Can you imagine getting a text from someone that has a picture of any loved one or their partner lying on the collapsed on the kitchen floor and just being like, it's fine. He's gonna be okay. What?

• 35:33Kendall Rae?

  My husband had braces growing up and like so many people, he did not continue to wear his retainers as he got older. And he didn't want to go through the whole braces process again. So that's how we found SmileSet and it could not be easier, you guys. My husband is currently straightening his teeth while he sleeps. SmileSet delivers doctor prescribed clear aligners for under $1,900. That's 60% less than traditional braces or in-office treatment. And what's so cool is a licensed doctor reviews your case and builds you your own custom treatment plan. You start with an at-home impression kit and your aligners chip straight to you. Progress is then monitored remotely through the SmileSet app with doctor check-ins available whenever you want them. SmileSet has treatment options and payment plans that fit around your life.

• 36:18Kendall Rae?

  And like my husband is doing, nighttime-only aligners mean you can straighten your teeth while you sleep. And monthly payments start at just $89. There have been over 2 million smiles treated with this technology. And they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee after starting treatment. Listeners of my show get an additional 35% discount when they go to smileset.com/tckr. With this discount, you can get the smile of your dreams for under $1,200. Go to smileset.com/tckr to get started. Smileset.com/tckr. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates? Where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start.

• 37:03Kendall Rae?

  Progressive offers customized coverage options. You can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, the kitchen cabinet locks, and the baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

• 37:30Kendall Rae?

  And she would go on to tell many versions of her story, but the gist of it was that he had went into the kitchen, threw up in the sink, had a seizure, and then just fell to the ground. Some people even heard from her that he had also hit his head, but that part didn't make it into all of her stories. Oh, and Natalie also assured the Davises that some of their contractors came over and helped move Michael to the couch, where she said he was, quote, "sleeping it off." And throughout that morning, a handful of people actually came to their house after getting a similar text from her, including their friend John, who happened to be a state trooper. And basically, he came in and took one look at Michael and said he needs medical attention immediately. And Natalie basically refused.

• 38:14Kendall Rae?

  And I'm not going to repeat this every time, but just know that every single person who stepped foot in their home that day had the exact same reaction, which was obviously shock and concern, and that Michael needed medical attention and that he needed it now. However, Natalie said that Michael absolutely despised hospitals, and he told her that if she ever brought him to one again, she would regret it. And for some context, Michael had experienced some health issues that had landed him in the hospital in October and November of 2018. So that was just a few months before. First, he had back surgery, and then there was also a concern that he was sick from black mold exposure. But now, in hindsight,

• 38:57Kendall Rae?

  even that sickness has been called into question. He actually had told a friend that he thought he was being poisoned, and I'll let you guys do what you want with that information. Anyway, the state trooper tried his best to get Natalie to take Michael into the hospital, but she just wouldn't do it. So he ends up calling his wife, who is Natalie's physician friend, Stephanie, who we just talked about. But even Stephanie Hamilton couldn't convince Natalie that she needed to get him help. She even tried to tell her that, you know, if Michael woke up in the hospital and he was pissed off, that she would happily take the blame. But nope. Natalie said that she was going to let him sleep it off. And I know a lot of people are going to question-

• 39:37Kendall Rae?

  Why Stephanie and the others who had gone to the house that day just didn't ignore Natalie and went ahead and took Michael to the hospital anyway. And I definitely found myself asking that too. But I want to point out that Natalie had a doctorate, which made her at least somewhat trustworthy when it came to medical decisions in a lot of these people's eyes. And again, you got to keep in mind that they're dealing with a master manipulator here. She told everyone that came over that she was monitoring his vitals and that this is what was best for him. And as his wife, she knew best. And she was even texting Chris and Jennifer and making it sound like he was conscious, saying things like, he doesn't want to go to the hospital.

• 40:19Kendall Rae?

  So that was really confusing to them and also super deceptive because he never regained consciousness. And then at one point Natalie's sister Penny came over and the two of them, along with Natalie's daughter, had to change his clothes because he had peed himself. And that alone should have been an indication to get him help, but that didn't happen for several more hours. And it wasn't until Chris showed up later that evening that Michael was finally transferred to the hospital. He got a text from Natalie asking him to come over. And when he saw the condition his best friend was in, he just didn't give her a choice. So he drove Michael to Raleigh General Hospital with Natalie in the backseat. And once they

• 40:59Kendall Rae?

  got there, it was discovered that Michael's blood sugar was a shocking 21. And for reference, a normal blood sugar level is between 80 and 120. So that is very, very, very concerning, to say the least. And hypoglycemia, which is what this was, if left untreated, can result in a seizure, a coma, and in some cases even death. And just FYI, Miss Expert Natalie was telling people earlier that day that his blood sugar was in normal range. Clearly it wasn't though. And I don't even think she shared with people that his blood sugar was so low when he was in the hospital because Donna said that. She only found out that

• 41:41Kendall Rae?

  information later on. Natalie was always the one relaying information from the doctors. So she really could have just said- Anything she wanted to. And sadly, despite their efforts to increase his blood sugar and stabilize him, Michael remained unconscious. And if that weren't upsetting enough, his own mother, Donna, did not even find out any of this until later that night. Donna said that she was getting ready for bed. It was around 10:00 PM. And then her husband Ed came into the room and brought her phone and said that Natalie had texted her. And that is when she received the heart-wrenching photo of Michael collapsed on the ground, followed by photos of him in the hospital. And mind you, Donna was actually a registered nurse for 30 years.

• 42:24Kendall Rae?

  So had Natalie contacted her sooner, you can guarantee that she would have brought him to the hospital much sooner. And so it seems very strategic that she didn't let her know until much later on. And it's just heartbreaking to think about because by the time she found out, it was too late. And can you imagine how upsetting, shocking, traumatizing it would be to open up your texts and see photos of your son in that condition with barely any explanation of what is going on? So Michael was transferred from Raleigh General to the Charleston Area Medical Center, where he remained for the next several days. And there are actually two C A M C hospitals, and Natalie initially sent Donna to the wrong one.

• 43:07Kendall Rae?

  And that was only after she told her she wasn't allowed to come to the hospital at all. Of course, I don't know this for sure, but in my opinion, I think her telling her to go to the wrong hospital was also on purpose. Thankfully, though, Donna did end up getting to the hospital and she was able to witness a miracle. A nurse came in and was trying to get Michael to show any sign of movement, any kind of movement. And this nurse performed a sternal rub, which is when you use your knuckles to rub and apply pressure to the sternum. It's used in medical situations to assess a person's consciousness. And when he did this, Michael rose up out of bed and opened his eyes. And obviously, everyone was elated to finally see him showing some type of improvement.

• 43:52Kendall Rae?

  Everyone except for Natalie. She did not seem happy at all that he was showing signs of life. And she didn't really- Really seemed to care much about Michael's health at all. In fact, the entire time that he was in the hospital, she was on her computer working on so-called contracts. And oh, this pissed me off, but she even texted Donna about a contract that she wanted to bid on while her son was dying. And make no mistake, even though there was that moment of hope, Michael was dying. On February 10th, after this brief miracle, Natalie ordered a do not resuscitate. And shortly after that, she had him transferred to Bauer's hospice house. They had to remove him from the ventilator to transfer him, and they actually witnessed him breathe all on his own.

• 44:37Kendall Rae?

  But by 1218 on the 11th, Michael Brandon Cochran was gone. And his cause of death was listed as brain swelling caused by low blood sugar, and his manner of death was ruled natural. But there was nothing natural about Michael's death. Two days later, Natalie held a quick and very small memorial service, which she described as what Michael would have wanted. But Donna disagrees. It was rushed, it did not include his closest friends, and the whole thing just didn't sit right with her. But Natalie just wanted to get back to business as usual, back to scamming and scheming. So in the following months, both TSG and TMS were up and running,

• 45:20Kendall Rae?

  and she continued to try and solicit money from people. And get this, after Michael died, she established a scholarship in his name, the Coach Michael Cochran Legacy Scholarship. And in May of 2019, she promised eight students full ride scholarships for up to eight years of schooling. And this whole thing sort of reminded me very lightly of an episode of The Office. If you don't watch The Office, you won't know. But if you do, you know, Scott's Tots. And obviously, this was a much worse situation. And as you probably could have guessed, these scholarships were fake. And what's especially fucked up beyond words is she actually told these children's parents to cancel their loan applications.

• 46:05Kendall Rae?

  She said that she was going to take care of everything. She's got them, including giving the kids $7,500 just for personal spending. The truth didn't come to light until later that summer, but still. I mean, these parents genuinely thought that they had been given this incredible gift. But all of this has to come to an end, right? And thankfully, by June of 2019, it started to. The walls started closing in on Natalie. Earlier in June, she had negotiated to sell 49% of TSG to a local dentist for $4 million. And initially, he paid her a $50,000 deposit. But he didn't go through with paying the rest because on June 25th, the police showed up at Natalie's door with a search warrant.

• 46:48Kendall Rae?

  Turns out, federal authorities had been tipped off by unhappy investors that something wasn't right with her business, and this warrant was a result of their early investigation. And they'd also become suspicious of Michael's death because of Natalie's ever-changing story. And when they were searching her house, they found something that immediately caught their attention. Inside the fridge, they found a bottle of Humalog insulin. And neither Natalie nor Michael were diabetic. I can't really tell, but it's interesting to me also that this is like jammed in there, this bottle with what looks to be Snickers bars to me? And possibly like dipping sauces from, I don't know, random restaurants?

• 47:33Kendall Rae?

  But yeah, nobody in their house had diabetes. So why did they have this random bottle of insulin in their fridge? And this was confirmed by Donna, who was spoken to by investigators that same day. And this is also when Donna and Ed learned for the very first time that none of the contracts were real and that Michael's death was not what it seemed. And imagine finding out all of that at once. The investigators didn't outright say that they thought he was murdered, but they hinted that something might have been up.

• 48:07Kendall Rae?

  My husband had braces growing up and like so many people, he did not continue to wear his retainers as he got older. And he didn't want to go through the whole braces process again. So that's how we found SmileSet and it could not be easier, you guys. My husband is currently straightening his teeth while he sleeps. SmileSet delivers doctor prescribed clear aligners for under $1,900. That's 60% less than traditional braces or in-office treatment. And what's so cool is a licensed doctor reviews your case and builds you your own custom treatment plan. You start with an at-home impression kit and your aligners chip straight to you. Progress is then monitored remotely through the SmileSet app with doctor check-ins available whenever you want them.

• 48:49Kendall Rae?

  SmileSet has treatment options and payment plans that fit around your life. And like my husband is doing, nighttime-only aligners mean you can straighten your teeth while you sleep. And monthly payments start at just $89. There have been over 2 million smiles treated with this technology. And they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee after starting treatment. Listeners of my show get an additional 35% discount when they go to smileset.com/tckr. With this discount, you can get the smile of your dreams for under 1,200 bucks. Go to smileset.com/tckr to get started. Smileset.com/tckr. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates. Where do you even start?

• 49:34Kendall Rae?

  Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options. You can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, the kitchen cabinet locks, and the baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

• 50:04Kendall Rae?

  And so, over the course of the coming months, the investigation continued. There was an undercover mission, actually, where an officer went to her house while she was, like, selling a bunch of things to take a look around. And during this, she behaved very strangely. And there was also an effort to dig into the missing baseball league funds. On July 23rd, though, it was officially alleged that TMS and TSG were not legitimate businesses based on their findings, and that no point since 2017 had Natalie ever bid on or won a government contract. So the following day, she filed for bankruptcy. And homegirl even broke the law by doing that, by not listing her investors as creditors.

• 50:48Kendall Rae?

  And finally, in September of 2019, Natalie Cochran was officially arrested and indicted on a whopping 26 charges related to defrauding investors, defrauding banks, wire fraud, aggravated identity theft, and more. Interestingly, though, she wasn't charged with anything related to the baseball league's money going missing. Per the indictment, Natalie was accused of running the Ponzi scheme from June 2017 through at least August of 2019. And as a result, she defrauded numerous individuals and financial institutions more than $2.5 million. So, federal prosecutors said that they would be seeking a forfeiture of at least $1 million. Plus, they were going to take back a ton of their belongings.

• 51:32Kendall Rae?

  But for as serious as this was, Natalie ended up getting off easy. After posting bond, she managed to strike a deal with prosecutors where she agreed to plead guilty to two of the 26 charges. In September of 2020, she pled guilty to one count of wire fraud, one count of money laundering, and she only got 11 years and 3 months in jail. Plus, she also has to pay a restitution of $2.6 million. Now, the judge said that he would have given her more if he could have, but that was the maximum allowed based on the deal that was negotiated. And in a statement, Natalie said this. In the interest of my family and children, I have decided to plead guilty to one count of wire fraud

• 52:17Kendall Rae?

  and one count of unlawful monetary transaction in relation to the companies owned by my husband and I. I realize that I am responsible for any action taken by the companies as a controlling member. I look forward to the day I am provided the opportunity to go into more detail regarding the events that have transpired in the last few years. It was my goal that every investor be made financially whole in regards to their interactions with the business and that my children and I can finally put this behind us and move forward with our lives. I'd love to know your thoughts on this statement. In my mind, this really doesn't seem like taking any true accountability and I'm sure this statement really just felt like a slap in the face to everyone that she defrauded.

• 53:00Kendall Rae?

  They, of course, wanted her to go to trial to face a harsher punishment, but this plea prevented that from happening. So on May 1 of 2021, she reported to the Federal Correctional Institute at Hazleton, where her sentence began. And only a few months later, in November, she was officially indicted on charges of first-degree murder. Prosecutors ultimately believe that Michael was killed because he was starting to figure out that Natalie was lying about their businesses. And that meeting that they were supposed to go to on February 6 would have completely exposed her. So they alleged that she killed him with a lethal dose of insulin, but proving this was not going to be easy. In fact, prosecutors ended up dropping the charge altogether

• 53:44Kendall Rae?

  in April of 2023 because they wanted more time to build their case. And they specifically needed more time because they wanted to exhume Michael's remains. This was actually the second exhumation. The first was in September of 2019, and this time, they wanted a medical examiner to perform a specialized test, a test to see if he had insulin in his tissue. But the problem was, at this point, Michael was obviously pretty decomposed. And sadly, because it had been so long at this point, the medical examiner couldn't detect anything. But that being said, he did determine that an overdose of insulin was Michael's cause of death. To my understanding, he basically said that the hypoglycemia was so severe

• 54:27Kendall Rae?

  that there really couldn't be any other explanation. So on October 23 of 2023, Natalie was re-indicted for first degree murder. She was arraigned on January 29, 2024, where she pleaded not guilty, and an initial trial date was set for August 12. The defense said that they wanted to exhume Michael themselves, to have their own expert examine him, but that didn't end up happening. And the trial also didn't end up happening in August, as expected. And to make a long story short, basically, there was delay after delay. And sometimes the delays came from the defense, and other times it was because of the prosecution. And ultimately, the lead prosecutor ended up resigning because he was under investigation for inappropriate conduct.

• 55:12Kendall Rae?

  And I don't believe that it was related to the case, but it obviously impacted it because he was put on administrative leave before he ultimately left the job. So in his place was Raleigh County Prosecutor Tom Truman, who had come out of retirement. And the final big delay was to allow him and his co-counsel to review all 70,000 pages of case files. He got the case in September of 2024, and the trial didn't begin until January 13 of 2025, so very, very recently. Before getting into that, though, I wanted to point out that, obviously, I am not a lawyer, and this isn't going to be like an in-depth testimony breakdown. There are some really incredible channels out there who have broken it down, line by line.

• 55:56Kendall Rae?

  So if you're interested, I'm sure you could, you know, search for something like that if you want to see it in that way. But this is not going to be that. We just don't have the time, and it's very, very confusing. This is going to be more of a detailed summary of the main arguments and the testimony, which I will do my best to make sense of. All right, so starting, of course, with opening statements. Prosecutor Tom Truman kicked things off pretty strong. So take a listen.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  On February 5 of 2019, Michael Cochran was a 200-pound, healthy, 38-year-old man. By midday of February 6 of 2019, he had lost consciousness, and he would never regain consciousness. He died in hospice care five days later, February 11 of 2019.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  How could this happen? Why did it happen? For an answer to that, no further than this defendant's conduct. As you were told, the state has no direct evidence, the kind of stuff that makes TV shows exciting, the kind of stuff prosecutors love, jurors love. There is no DNA. There is no evidence of fingerprints. There are no didiams of what happened. But, as Judge Kirkpatrick will instruct you at the end of this, circumstantial evidence is just as valid as that type of direct and scientific evidence.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  And there is a ton of evidence of this defendant's guilt. Why? Why would this happen? And why would it happen when it happened? Well, as the defense counsel informed you during questioning, the defendant had run a Ponzi scheme, a big one, where millions of dollars were taken from friends, relatives, local professionals. As many deceptions and lies as were told to her victims of the Ponzi scheme, Michael Cochran was told just as many. He did not know what was going on.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  But he was determined to find out, because people were saying, "Hey, we invested in your company, in this plan, and we're not getting our money back." And he was frustrated. He was very frustrated. But, the same excuses provided by the defendant to all of her victims in the Ponzi scheme were being provided to Michael Cochran too. It's everybody's fault under the sun. They've got hundreds of millions of dollars in their money, stuck in a bank in Virginia, Bank of America. That's what she told Michael Cochran. That's what he believed. So, Michael Cochran is going to straighten this out.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  They charter a flight from Beckley to the Bank of America branch in Lynchburg, Virginia, for the 6th of February, 2019. Mysteriously, the defendant cancels that trip in early morning hours.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  Why was that trip so important? Because Michael Cochran and everybody else would know at that point, there is no money in the Bank of America in Virginia. There's never been any money in the Bank of America in Virginia. There are no government contracts, which is what she was selling to the most of Raleigh Patton, it seems like. Those were fictitious things that she made up and built millions of dollars out of her victims.

• 59:55Kendall Rae?

  Now, that might have been the why, but the important thing that Tom had to prove, obviously, was the how. And of course, the simplest way to answer that is with insulin. According to prosecutors, Natalie manipulated her good friend Jennifer Davis into letting her have some of her son's insulin, and she used that to fatally dose her husband. Afterwards, she came up with an elaborate plan to convince people that he had a seizure and just needed to sleep it off. And I'd say the two biggest things the prosecution needed to convince the jury of was that Michael was a healthy 38-year-old man and that he knew nothing about the Ponzi scheme. Obviously, establishing his health was going to be crucial because it would prove that he had no reason

• 1:00:38Kendall Rae?

  to have suddenly collapsed with a blood sugar of 21. And then, they needed to prove that he knew nothing about the Ponzi scheme to help support the motive of why she would want to kill him. The defense, on the other hand, needed to do just the opposite. It was their position that Michael's death was the result of pumping himself full of steroids and supplements, which they say were purchased from Mexico and weren't safe for human consumption.

• 1:01:10Kendall Rae?

  My husband had braces growing up, and like so many people, he did not continue to wear his retainers as he got older. And he didn't want to go through the whole braces process again, so that's how we found Smile Set. And it could not be easier, you guys. My husband is currently straightening his teeth while he sleeps. Smile Set delivers. Doctor prescribed clear aligners for under $1,900. That's 60% less than traditional braces or in-office treatment. And what's so cool is a licensed doctor reviews your case and builds you your own custom treatment plan. You start with an at-home impression kit and your aligners chip straight to you. Progress is then monitored remotely through the SmileSet app with doctor check-ins available whenever you want them. SmileSet has treatment options and payment plans that fit around your life.

• 1:01:55Kendall Rae?

  And like my husband is doing, nighttime-only aligners mean you can straighten your teeth while you sleep. And monthly payments start at just $89. There have been over 2 million smiles treated with this technology. And they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee after starting treatment. Listeners of my show get an additional 35% discount when they go to smileset.com/tckr. With this discount, you can get the smile of your dreams for under $1,200. Go to smileset.com/tckr to get started. Smileset.com/tckr. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids. But what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates. Where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start.

• 1:02:40Kendall Rae?

  Progressive offers customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, the kitchen cabinet locks, and the baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  By the prosecution's account, and perhaps by some other accounts,

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Natalie Copeland is not a nice person. She defrauded friends, relatives, investors.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  She was involved in a Ponzi scheme. But ladies and gentlemen of the jury,

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  the fact that she

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  is perhaps a fraud and perhaps a cheat

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  and that you wouldn't perhaps want to invite her home for Sunday dinner, that you wouldn't like her, does not translate into being a murderer. And I will submit to you

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  that the state's motive in this case, as they presented to you,

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  is absolute nonsense. The state of West Virginia is trying to tell you

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  that my client, Natalie Cochran, who has lived with a man who was up to his eyeballs in the Ponzi scheme,

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  somehow

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  detected that he was on her.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  He was trying, he was already detecting that she was committing a major fraud and he was going to run straight to the federal government. But what comes to mind immediately is that bottle of insulin. And I will submit to you that this is a smokescreen that the state is going to present to you. You will hear medical evidence that Mr. Cochran was not a healthy thirty year, thirty eight year old man. In fact, to the contrary, between the late 2017 and the time of his death in 2019, he was in a hospital four times. For what? For life-threatening conditions.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  He was a ticking bomb. The evidence will show. Healthwise. What's more, you will hear the evidence that Mr. Cochran fancied himself to be a bodybuilder. He wanted to be the Arnold Schwarzenegger, Mr. University. And what did he do to that, in that regard? Mr. Cochran has imported, well, let's call it medication, from Mexico, online, from sources that were not approved by any FDA or any legitimate American government sources.

• 1:05:55Speaker 02

  And he was taking medication, steroids, that were not for human consumption. That there was, that there was some animal medication taken only by the animals. He was pumping himself with steroids and whatever other medication there was that he could get from less than legitimate sources. And you have to consider that in arriving at your verdict. The insulin that my client had had in her possession was the insulin that Mr. and Mrs. Davis gave him, gave her repeatedly. Why? Because they had a diabetic son.

• 1:06:39Kendall Rae?

  All right, so to kick testimony off for the state, the prosecution's first witness was Robert Hinesman, the lead investigator on the Ponzi scheme case. And his testimony was crucial because he confirmed that Michael had no idea that his wife was running a Ponzi scheme, which obviously helped to support their motive. Now, the defense pointed out that Michael benefited greatly from that money. And honestly, the prosecution didn't deny that. But when it came down to the facts, there wasn't a shred of evidence suggesting that he knew about it, let alone that he was involved. And one thing that the prosecution came back to a lot was the fact that Natalie was really the one dealing with the money, not Michael. And Michael was really only responsible, as we talked about earlier, for finding the contracts. And this was something that not only Robert testified.

• 1:07:24Kendall Rae?

  Too, but a lot of others did as well. Even their friends said that it was always Natalie who handled the money. And Jennifer Davis was one of those friends and she was next on the stand and her testimony was very pivotal for the prosecution. So something that Natalie told investigators was that the insulin was in her fridge because Jennifer had a diabetic son and she had the vial in case she ever needed to give him a shot. The issue with that, though, obviously, is the fact that there were text messages as proof of her asking Jennifer for the insulin for herself. So that obviously didn't go very far.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  She said that her and Mike, they were both sick and she had to start taking small insulin shots. I know she said that the flu and the norovirus had hit her hard and made her more sick because of the cancer that she had. Then I had asked if she was going to the cancer center or Dr. Halsey and then I volunteered a vial of insulin if she needed it. Did she accept your offer of help? Uh, yes, she did.

• 1:08:27Kendall Rae?

  Jennifer's testimony went on for quite a while where she talked both about the timeline of that morning and also how Natalie had in-depth knowledge of how insulin works. And considering she was a pharmacist, the prosecution wanted to drive home the fact that she had intimate knowledge on how to poison him. Jennifer also confirmed that she never asked Natalie to keep insulin at her house for her son, plus her son had an insulin pump. Oh, and listen to this. When Michael was in hospice, and this is, this is really disturbing, like beyond words, but Jennifer testified that Natalie had asked her to help her put a pillow over his face because she didn't like seeing him that way. And honestly, I don't even know what to make of that. Different thoughts are coming to mind.

• 1:09:12Kendall Rae?

  I'm sure you guys are going to be on the same page with me, but I obviously can't make any accusations without proof. Or maybe she really just didn't like seeing him that way because it was making her feel guilty since she was responsible for it. I don't know. The whole, it's so whack to think about why anyone would ask someone to do that. But anyway, on cross-examination, the defense tried to get Jennifer. To admit that Michael's health was bad, asking about the Mexican supplements that he was allegedly taking and about his past hospitalizations, which was asked to a lot of Michael's friends who took the stand, but like the others, she was adamant that he was healthy. She never saw him inject himself with anything, and she definitely did not think that he was sick. Then, a Bank of America employee took the stand, and

• 1:09:57Kendall Rae?

  he talked about that meeting that Natalie had canceled. He also reiterated that Natalie was always the point of contact for money-related discussions, further proving that Michael wasn't involved. And then another big piece of testimony that we heard came from Stephanie Hamilton. She talked a lot about giving Natalie that steroid two days prior to Michael's collapse, and about her perception of his condition when she went over there that day. And her testimony helped highlight Natalie's reluctance to get medical attention for her husband, who, in Stephanie's professional opinion, needed it. And then there was Chris Davis's testimony, which was very emotional and impactful. I mean, he was Michael's best friend, and he firmly believed that Michael was a healthy guy. Chris said that he had

• 1:10:42Kendall Rae?

  never heard of these so-called Mexican medications, and that anything Michael was taking supplement-wise just came from GNC. He also testified about the timeline of that day, and how he was the one who finally brought him to the hospital. And how, even though Michael was hospitalized a few months before this, that this instance was not like the others. And obviously, the defense wants the jury to believe that Michael was unhealthy, and they wanted the jury to think that Michael had a history of seizures, and that would therefore explain why he collapsed suddenly in February. But this wasn't the same.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  On November the 2nd, he went to the hospital with the same, or extremely similar, conditions that you found him in in February of 2019.

• 1:11:33Speaker 04

  No, he did not.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  No, he did not.

• 1:11:35Speaker 04

  Because in February of 2019, he was unresponsive. In November of 2018, he was talking to me, vomiting.

• 1:11:47Speaker 04

  And participating in wanting to go to the hospital.

• 1:11:51Kendall Rae?

  The defense attorney also asked specifically about Michael's use of steroids and anabolic. But Chris said that, to his knowledge, his best friend didn't take steroids or anabolic. And just FYI, insulin is an anabolic hormone. All right, so then we also heard from one of the contractors. And he remembered Michael telling him back in 2018 that he felt like he had been poisoned. And from an FBI chemist who analyzed the substances found in the Cochran's home. And it turns out, they found a vial for something called enclomiphene citrate, which is a medication that can boost testosterone and muscle mass. And you might be thinking, okay, well, maybe Michael was taking steroids for bodybuilding.

• 1:12:35Kendall Rae?

  But upon further inspection, they discovered that the contents inside that vial had been replaced with something else. We also heard from an endocrinologist who talked about how excessive insulin can lead to death, and how Michael wasn't taking any medications that would have caused his blood sugar to drop as low as 21. Then on day five, the jury heard from Dr. Uribe, the medical examiner from the second autopsy and exhumation. He, if you remember, was the one who couldn't find insulin in his tissue. But he did testify that being poisoned with insulin was the only thing that could explain his cause of death. Now, lastly, I want to talk about Timothy Bledsoe's testimony. He was another one of the lead investigators in the Ponzi scheme case.

• 1:13:19Kendall Rae?

  And he really sealed the deal that Michael didn't know about the fraud when he went over those texts that I read you earlier. I mean, clearly, Michael was just as confused as everyone else. And he also said that he never found any evidence to suggest that Natalie ever had cancer. And then another thing that he talked about was three interviews that he had done with Natalie back in 2019. She had one interview in April, and then two back-to-back in May. And it was in that third and final interview when investigators first heard about insulin. And get this, she was actually the one to introduce it into their minds before they even found it. In these three stories, she told some version of Michael went to the kitchen, threw up in the sink, fell and hit his head, and then collapsed on the floor.

• 1:14:03Kendall Rae?

  And in interview one and two, she said that she thought he had collapsed because of these sketchy supplements that he was taking. But in that third interview, she said that he collapsed after injecting himself with insulin. And that's when she tried to explain that Michael used insulin as part of his bodybuilding regimen. Like, how stupid does she think these people are? And ultimately, I really think Timothy was a really good final witness because his testimony really connected all of the dots. And with that, the prosecution rested their case. Now, when it came to the defense calling witnesses, they had less people, but solid arguments were still made. And I actually think that's one thing you guys should understand here is that this was not a

• 1:14:48Kendall Rae?

  one-sided fight. And I do think the defense attorney was very obnoxious. He objected to literally everything, which was really annoying. But there were moments where his arguments raised serious doubt. And here are some examples of that. For starters, Natalie may have been a former pharmacist with intimate knowledge on how to poison someone. But he argued that, you know, why would she do it with something as traceable as insulin? Also, why would she just keep it hanging out in her fridge for four months after the fact if it was the murder weapon? The defense also questioned why, if she killed Michael, she didn't cremate him. They also pointed out that Natalie made no effort to hide the evidence, and therefore, there was no way she was guilty.

• 1:15:32Kendall Rae?

  Now, my personal explanation for those things is I think she's just dumb. But, um, yeah, I don't know. That's all I have to say on that. But they did point out, you know, why would she have invited all of these people into her home? She could have told nobody and made up some story that she just came home and found him unconscious. But again, in my opinion, I do think that can be explained by not being so smart. The defense also argued that the prosecution never really explained how the insulin ended up inside Michael to begin with. It's not like she attacked him. As far as we know, with a needle and then he fell to the floor. It just, of course, wouldn't have happened that fast.

• 1:16:13Kendall Rae?

  Now, this is just my opinion, but we did learn that Michael was allergic to benzodiazepines. We also learned that two days before he collapsed, Natalie was prescribed Xanax, traces of which were found in his system. So my thought process, and of course, this is just my opinion, and I cannot prove this in any way, but I think it's possible that she may have drugged him with the Xanax with a benzo, which he's allergic to. And then, once he was already knocked out, then she, you know, poisoned him with the insulin. Again, those are just my thoughts. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that, so let me know. But moving on, the two star witnesses for the defense actually were the Cochran children.

• 1:16:56Kendall Rae?

  And I really want to be careful when I talk about their testimony. I mean, they have been through a lot. And there have been many people who questioned their statements and have insinuated that maybe they were manipulated by their mom to say certain things. And of course, she, as we know, is a master manipulator, so that's possible. But I definitely don't want to put any blame or accusations on them. I mean, they were nine and 13 years old when their dad died. And it's been pointed out that they continued living with their mom, who could have done and said anything she wanted. I can't say what she did or didn't do, or if they were manipulated by her. But I will tell you that Donna, Michael's mother, was incredibly hurt

• 1:17:41Kendall Rae?

  by the things that they said in court about their father. But to summarize, both Nicole and her brother took the stand, and they were asked countless questions about their relationship with Michael, as well as about his use of supplements and steroids. And both kids testified that their dad had become aggressive, forgetful, and lethargic in the months leading up to his death. They both said that he was not very involved in their lives, and that he was always the one working on the business, not their mom. The son, whose face they didn't show because he's a minor, said that one time, when he was laying between his parents, he saw his dad's computer and there was a Contract pulled up. He mentioned how his dad talked to him a lot about the business and, you know, he's just again suggesting that his dad was the one who was running the ship.

• 1:18:25Kendall Rae?

  He actually had a few stories about times when his dad was working on the business and, you know, nobody was questioning if Michael worked on the business. Of course he did. And we know that he was constantly trying to find new contracts, but the question really was whether or not he was involved in the financial part of things. And so many have questioned if a child who, keep in mind, was seven or eight at the time, would have even been aware of something like that and could really assess who was involved with what and how much. The kids were also asked about their dad's health regimen and both of them said that he took a lot of supplements. Nicole specifically said that he would lay them all out on the counter before he took them and that it would be enough to cover an entire dinner plate. So that's a lot.

• 1:19:10Kendall Rae?

  She said that he took up to 40 pills a day and that she would watch as he would scoop them into his mouth and take handfuls at a time. She also stated that her dad told her that he was taking steroids from Mexico and that she watched him take them via a dropper that he would put in his mouth. Now, the son testified something similar, except he said that his dad was specifically injecting them. However, when they asked him if he ever saw his dad physically inject himself, he said no. Another thing that was interesting is when each of them were testifying, Natalie was very expressive. For example, when Nicole got off the stand, she smiled at her and mouthed, "I love you," which is very interesting, of course.

• 1:19:52Kendall Rae?

  Parents expressing love for their children isn't anything that strange, but a lot of people question if there was manipulation going on even in those moments. And then there was Natalie's sister Penny who testified, and she was the only person who said that she saw Michael actually inject himself. And she said that it was a long time ago while they were on a family vacation. But when she was asked what he injected himself with, she admitted that she didn't know what it was. Penny also testified that Michael hated hospitals to help justify why Natalie didn't seek medical attention sooner. The defense also called their own medical examiner to the Stand who said he ruled Michael's death undetermined and inconclusive. A forensic pathologist testified that Michael had an enlarged heart likely caused by those

• 1:20:36Kendall Rae?

  supplements and that also could have caused him to die. Now, through the entire trial, everyone thought that eventually Natalie would take the stand, but at the very last minute, she decided not to, which I would have loved to see her up on the stand and what she would have said. And then on that note, Donna, Michael's mother, was also supposed to take the stand for the prosecution, of course, but long story short, she ended up not being allowed to. And so with all of that, the defense rested their case. Robert Hinesman was called once more as a rebuttal witness, but after that, testimony was over. And I just gotta say, the jury seemed to be locked in the entire trial and it was very long and complicated at times, but they seemed very attentive and took it very seriously.

• 1:21:21Kendall Rae?

  And so it was no surprise to me when they came back with their verdict in just two hours and I'm happy to say that verdict was guilty. And there were a lot of mixed emotions, but for Donna and Ed, of course, it was a moment of relief. After six years, Michael was finally getting justice. So the following day, Natalie appeared for what's called the mercy phase. Now, that's a lot like the sentencing phase, but the jury comes back in and hears more testimony about why the guilty party should or should not receive mercy. So if she was granted mercy, she would get life in prison, but be eligible for parole in just 15 years. And if she wasn't granted mercy, then she would get life in prison without the possibility of parole.

• 1:22:04Kendall Rae?

  And the defense goes first in this phase and they called up her sister, niece, parents, and two children who did everything in their power to paint Natalie as a loving mother who had already missed out on so much. And they really tugged on the heartstrings, talking about all the things that she's not going to experience with her kids if she's in jail for life.

• 1:22:24Speaker 03

  I've missed so many moments with my mother. I've missed. Getting ready with her for proms. I missed having her when I got my driver's license. I've missed her at birthdays and Christmases and Thanksgivings. I missed her at my high school graduation. I missed her on the day I moved into college. I'm begging you to give her mercy so that I don't have to miss more.

• 1:22:52Kendall Rae?

  She was crying when both her kids took the stand and you could feel the emotion from both Nicole and her brother. But as proven by the jury, their mom was and is guilty of killing their dad even if they didn't believe so. And my heart truly goes out to them. I mean, they of course have really lost both of their parents here in a horrible, horrible way. And it's got to be incredibly painful and so, so confusing. And when Natalie's mom took the stand, she talked about the fact that while in jail, her daughter wrote a journal workbook. It's a 90-day devotion and reflection journal specifically for people in jail that aims to help them, quote, "embark on a journey of self-discovery, spiritual growth, and resilience."

• 1:23:35Kendall Rae?

  The defense also played up a heart condition that they said Natalie has and how she won't receive proper care if she's in prison for the rest of her life, which she probably should have thought about more before she decided to murder someone. Now, when it came to the prosecution's witnesses, we heard from several of Michael's friends, both Ed and Donna, and lastly, Robert Hinesman. And when it was their turn to take the stand, Natalie's family and supporters all left the courtroom. They clearly couldn't bear to hear what Michael's loved ones had to say, which is so unfair considering they all sat and listened to them try and ruin his character. I definitely understand her children leaving and give them a total pass for that, but everyone else who bailed in those moments, that is really disgusting to me.

• 1:24:18Kendall Rae?

  I seriously wish I could play every minute of every one of their testimonies, but this mercy phase took an entire day. I do want to play a snippet from some of them, though, because I do think it's very powerful.

• 1:24:30Speaker 04

  Michael's one of my best friends. And, you know, we did a lot together and spent a lot of time together and... You miss him? I do.

• 1:24:53Speaker 04

  Mike was a, he was a very strong man. He's a good man.

• 1:24:59Speaker 04

  And he would want, he would want me to be strong now as well. And, um, he was a good man.

• 1:25:09Speaker 04

  A very good man. He loved his family. He took care of his family. He loved life.

• 1:25:18Speaker 04

  He wasn't, he wasn't sick. He wasn't ready to die.

• 1:25:26Speaker 04

  He was healthy.

• 1:25:30Speaker 04

  Even up until the day he died.

• 1:25:33Speaker 05

  Today I stand before everyone, a man filled with grief, pain, bitterness, and anxiety. My name is Ed Bolt. I am Michael Cochrane's stepfather. The grief that I feel is when I look out the, out our window at the deer stand that Michael had put up at our house. He was really excited. How are we to know that Michael would never set foot in it again? I often go there now. I have put in a memorial bench there and keep that site clear to brush so we can just sit under that big oak tree and reflect on what could have been.

• 1:26:16Speaker 05

  Evil has many faces, shapes, and images. Evil must be held accountable. Natalie Cochrane must be held accountable. So let's just send her to jail. Remove her from society. Let the state take care of her. From jail, she will not be able to harm anyone ever again.

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  Do you believe that this defendant deserves mercy in this matter? I do not. Can you tell the jury why you believe she doesn't deserve mercy? Because she didn't give Michael any mercy. Since Michael's murder, Natalie Cochrane's evil and sinister deeds have caused overwhelming damage and rot on our lives and so many good and decent lives. Lives that will forever cast a shadow of sadness. Michael Brandon was my only son. And I loved him and so adored him. I struggle every day. I struggle every day to make sense of what has no answers. The murder of my son is crushing, and yet I must try and move forward to honor his memory. To this day, this vile being has showed no remorse, none whatsoever.

• 1:27:25Speaker 03

  We, along with our family and friends, have sat quietly and graciously and painfully watched and listened as Michael's good name has been murdered time and time again. Think of the horrific invasion of Michael's and our dignity and privacy. At what point and at what time do we seek sleeping at night? Is Michael Brandon resting in peace? I don't think so. We, as Michael Brandon's mom and stepdad, we respectfully ask this court, in the memory of our beloved and precious son, Michael Brandon Cochran, to delay for as long as judicially allowed, the day that this cold-blooded murderer once again walks among us.

• 1:28:09Speaker 03

  In a pure world, light should never shine on that day.

• 1:28:14Kendall Rae?

  And I would really encourage you guys to go and listen to Donna's entire statement. She wasn't allowed to read it in full during the mercy phase because she had written eight pages and they told her that in the interest of time, she needed to summarize it. But in that interview with her that I told you about earlier, she reads the full thing. So I will have that linked below for you. And in the end, after only one hour of deliberation, the jury ruled that Natalie Cochran should not receive mercy, and therefore the judge sentenced her to life in prison without parole, which actually made her the first woman in West Virginia convicted of murder since 1991 to not receive a recommendation of mercy. So since then, Natalie's defense team has filed motions for acquittal and a new trial,

• 1:28:59Kendall Rae?

  but those motions were luckily denied on February 25th. So unless they end up filing a motion that ends up being granted, then she will remain in prison for the rest of her life, which in my opinion is exactly where she belongs. I know that was a lot of information, you guys. Thanks for sticking with me if you made it to this point. And I would just love to know what you think of everything that we went over. Did the jury get it right with her conviction? Did they get it right with her sentencing? What do you think of the case overall? I mean, all of the different elements of it. You know, she was never held responsible for potentially faking cancer. I'm sure I know how you guys will feel about that. Maybe there are some of you out there who think there was enough reasonable doubt,

• 1:29:42Kendall Rae?

  and I'd love to hear from you as well and why you think that. But I just wanted to end this by saying that my heart truly goes out to everyone who loved Michael, especially to his immediate family, to his parents and to his children, who had to go through all of this at no fault of their own. I'm also just so impressed by Donna and Ed for their ability to remain so strong during all of this, after everything they have been through. I mean, don't forget, they lost their entire life savings, their retirement savings because of Natalie. And that is just horrible. I mean, so many people suffered because of Natalie. But obviously, the one who suffered most was Michael.

• 1:30:28Kendall Rae?

  That is going to be it for me today, guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode. And make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel, which will be linked, or you can just search Kendall Rae. I will be back with another episode soon, but until then, stay safe out there.

• 1:30:57Kendall Rae?

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