Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 110: Live at the Palace Theatre in Columbus

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 110: Live at the Palace Theatre in Columbus. Georgia discussed serial killer Donald Harvey and Karen covered the mystery of the Circleville Letter Writer. Tune in for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode! Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello.

• 1:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 1:51Georgia Hardstark?

  To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

• 1:53Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the show where we step into the past through our old episodes and we emerge from the other side with brand-new feelings, case updates, and more.

• 2:01Georgia Hardstark?

  And today, we're rewinding to episode 110, which we named "Live at the Palast Theater in Columbus."

• 2:06Karen Kilgariff?

  This episode originally came out March 1, 2018.

• 2:10Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, let's get into the intro of episode 110.

• 2:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, what up?

• 2:53Karen Kilgariff?

  What's up, Columbus?

• 2:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, we haven't gotten one wrong yet.

• 3:01Karen Kilgariff?

  We practice and practice backstage.

• 3:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm. Where are we? Columb-- where are we?

• 3:06Karen Kilgariff?

  How do you pronounce it? Columbus?

• 3:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Woo.

• 3:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 3:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi. What a beautiful theater.

• 3:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Gorgeous theater. Gorgeous.

• 3:19Georgia Hardstark?

  We got a fun fact on the way over here about this theater, that it was a vaudeville theater, and downstairs in, like, catering, it was where they had the animals come in for vaudeville. Like, all the dogs in their ballet costumes and shit. Aww.

• 3:33Karen Kilgariff?

  What's funny is we didn't ask what animals. That's Georgia's cartoon of this theater in 1920. You just wrote it in your head.

• 3:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Poodles in fucking ballet costumes.

• 3:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Poodle show. Poodle show.

• 3:50Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the most famous ballet of all.

• 3:54Karen Kilgariff?

  You know it. It's the Sugar Plum Fairy from the Nutcracker.

• 3:59Georgia Hardstark?

  With poodles.

• 4:00Karen Kilgariff?

  I pictured on the animal ramp just like 100 elephants. It was just like, these people are amazing. They got all those camels and elephants and rhinocerai out here.

• 4:13Georgia Hardstark?

  In my mind, it was poodle, doodle, doodle, doodles.

• 4:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Poodles time. Poodles time.

• 4:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome to Poodles Time, everybody. Thank you so much for coming.

• 4:26Karen Kilgariff?

  You bought special tickets to Poodles Time? We appreciate it.

• 4:30Georgia Hardstark?

  It's the official pre-show of the Puppy Bowl.

• 4:34Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 4:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Who's excited?

• 4:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Talking Puppy Bowl.

• 4:38Georgia Hardstark?

  For the talking Puppy Bowl.

• 4:39Karen Kilgariff?

  We're gonna introduce Chris Hardwick. We're all gonna come out, talk about what might happen, what happened last year.

• 4:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 4:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Remember when that one drank the water? Fuck. That was the best.

• 4:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That was the best.

• 4:54Karen Kilgariff?

  You can see it in your mind again, huh?

• 4:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 4:57Karen Kilgariff?

  What's the music behind puppies drinking water?

• 4:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, well, well, they're not drinking it out of fucking FBI glasses, that's for sure.

• 5:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit, Shaw.

• 5:07Georgia Hardstark?

  See, right here. Thank you.

• 5:09Karen Kilgariff?

  They stand up and shoot us? Please, sit down.

• 5:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You're not in charge right now, FBI. Jesus. Power tripping. Still standing. Still talking.

• 5:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's break this shit.

• 5:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 5:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, thanks, is what we meant to say.

• 5:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Can you hear me breathing in this mic really hardcore?

• 5:36Karen Kilgariff?

  This sound system is insane, because it sounds like the voices are coming from behind me. And that's, uh, when you're the one talking, that's kind of upsetting.

• 5:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, that's the ghost, actually.

• 5:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, is that a ghost?

• 5:47Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a ghost.

• 5:47Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the ghost of a dead poodle?

• 5:51Georgia Hardstark?

  The voice, the human voice of a ghost of a dead... Oh, why are we talking about dead dogs?

• 5:56Karen Kilgariff?

  It's fun. It's funny.

• 5:57Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a bummer. It's funny.

• 5:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, did you know what the show is about?

• 6:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I have bad news for you.

• 6:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no, I think security really is coming for those FBI agents. Oh, well.

• 6:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit, some-- no, no, no, you know what it is?

• 6:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 6:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Someone tweeted this. I was eavesdropping.

• 6:13Georgia Hardstark?

  On Twitter?

• 6:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You get your own individual usher at this theater to walk you to your seat.

• 6:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Each and every person?

• 6:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean...

• 6:23Karen Kilgariff?

  They could have been lying, but...

• 6:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Ohio, you got some fucking class going on.

• 6:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Falcone's like, "We did too."

• 6:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Because no one knows where they're going.

• 6:34Karen Kilgariff?

  They look at, they look at the balcony ticket, and they're like, "You're on your own."

• 6:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Figure it out.

• 6:40Karen Kilgariff?

  If you want your own individual usher, you gotta kick down that cheddar.

• 6:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Never said that word before as money. Never.

• 6:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Cheddar as money.

• 6:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Cheddar as money.

• 6:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen, um, I have to tell you guys something. It's really upsetting. Karen tried to steal someone's purse last night.

• 7:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Look.

• 7:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen.

• 7:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I had, I needed money for my children. That's how it starts.

• 7:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Having children?

• 7:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 7:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Last night at the meet and greet, these gals walked up. Here's the problem with me. I make a lot of assumptions in my mind and then just go with it. It's a fun way to live, but you can be deeply wrong often. And these two women walked up, and they had clutch purses, and they had with, I think, like, sequins sewed on our logo onto these two clutch purses.

• 7:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Beautiful clutch purses. And they were walking toward-- I understand. They were walking towards us, like, showing us. Oh, my God, look at them. They did.

• 7:42Karen Kilgariff?

  So I'm all like, this is amazing. And I open it up.

• 7:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm like, why is she giving me this old checkbook? I don't want that. I don't want this shit.

• 7:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Birth control pills? What the fuck?

• 7:59Georgia Hardstark?

  It was really awkward.

• 8:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It was super, when the moment I realized I'm looking into a woman's purse, who I met three and a half seconds ago, I was all like, "Huh, love in your purse."

• 8:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Why'd she hand it to me?

• 8:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know.

• 8:19Georgia Hardstark?

  They're not giving you something. And then we were like, "Oh, they're gorgeous." We had to, like, play it. Well, they were, but, but I wanted one.

• 8:27Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 8:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't bring two.

• 8:31Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a real, that was a real mind fuck.

• 8:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm. Well, she was a lawyer, so I think she's used to getting, catching people in weird situations.

• 8:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you here?

• 8:39Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Lawyer.

• 8:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you love lawyers.

• 8:42Georgia Hardstark?

  There's one lawyer here.

• 8:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, these are people that got off on huge crimes.

• 8:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 8:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Lawyer groupies.

• 8:50Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't prove anything. Inadmissible. I never said shit.

• 8:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Hearsay. Let's, let's throw out more legal terms.

• 8:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, approach the bench.

• 9:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Approach the bench. Order in the court.

• 9:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm just panicking, going through every law and order I've ever seen. Argumentative, Your Honor.

• 9:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome to my favorite burner, everybody.

• 9:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Welcome to my favorite burner.

• 9:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 9:17Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 9:22Georgia Hardstark?

  For all the dads that were dragged along, don't know what this is, yes, it's gonna get worse.

• 9:31Karen Kilgariff?

  More confusing.

• 9:32Georgia Hardstark?

  More confusing.

• 9:33Karen Kilgariff?

  More inside baseball.

• 9:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but you guys get the Super Bowl, so calm down. No, women like that stuff, too, right?

• 9:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely, everything's fair and even.

• 9:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Snacks, snacks, I just love the snacks.

• 9:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Have you seen that picture online? That's the person who made a cold cut Super Bowl.

• 9:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Like stadium?

• 9:57Karen Kilgariff?

  The stadium, where you just peel off pieces of ham, off a ham stadium, have you ever seen that?

• 10:03Georgia Hardstark?

  That person is super chill, that person's just chill.

• 10:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just a person who is chill about meats. It's not that big of a deal.

• 10:12Georgia Hardstark?

  She doesn't, or he doesn't tell you where to eat from first, or get mad at you, you know, in the corner. Why is he eating from the middle?

• 10:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Try the olive loaf front door!

• 10:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Is there a front door to a stadium?

• 10:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Probably. A front and back, two side doors.

• 10:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Speaking of delicious food, and beautiful food, so we went on our way here, we were in Cleveland yesterday and on our way today.

• 10:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 10:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. We stopped by your incredible vintage shop called Flower Child.

• 10:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my god!

• 10:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my god!

• 10:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god! It was just troubling, and we were like, well, what do we get for the hometown person, the person that comes up to read the hometown? And Karen found something magical. Do you want to tell them about it?

• 10:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I would love to, thank you, Georgia. This is creative cooking with aluminum foil. It's a, yes, it's a wonderful recipe book from, I don't know if you looked it up, my guess is 72.

• 11:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I think it was 60 something.

• 11:15Karen Kilgariff?

  What's your guess?

• 11:16Georgia Hardstark?

  69.

• 11:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, $15,000?

• 11:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep, that's always our bet, we never do less than that. Can you see?

• 11:25Karen Kilgariff?

  67!

• 11:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 11:26Karen Kilgariff?

  You're closest.

• 11:27Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, well, I win, I win the cookbook. That's weird.

• 11:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you don't want that money, okay, cool.

• 11:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I marked two recipes that are special. One is molded seafood salad. Like a Jell-O mold.

• 11:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Where's the aluminum foil come in?

• 11:42Georgia Hardstark?

  It doesn't matter, you eat it.

• 11:44Karen Kilgariff?

  You tear it up into tiny pieces.

• 11:46Georgia Hardstark?

  You make a thing out of it and you scrape your tongue off after you eat it, because it's so disgusting.

• 11:52Karen Kilgariff?

  You actually, you put it on the orange zester?

• 11:56Georgia Hardstark?

  You use it to make into a key to unlock the handcuffs you've been put in, that are force feeding you to eat this shit?

• 12:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I thought you meant unlock the key to the front door of the meat stadium.

• 12:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Either one.

• 12:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Also tuna temptees.

• 12:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you just read what's in a tuna temptee?

• 12:12Georgia Hardstark?

  A quarter pound of American cheese, cubed.

• 12:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 12:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Right off the fucking bat.

• 12:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Why don't they, this is before integrations, because today, if it was a book like this, it'd be a Velveeta brand TM, fucking.

• 12:27Georgia Hardstark?

  This is, okay, this is by Eleanor Lynch, by the way.

• 12:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, hell, yeah.

• 12:30Georgia Hardstark?

  A can of tuna, a green pepper, you got some greens in there.

• 12:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 12:35Georgia Hardstark?

  An onion, a pickle salad dressing, salad pepper, hamburger or Frankfurt or, oh, hamburger buns.

• 12:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, wait, what, where'd we go?

• 12:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Green buns?

• 12:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I think it's just a tuna melt, and we made a better name now for it.

• 12:51Karen Kilgariff?

  But that's the kind of thing my mom would make of, she would call it catch as catch can, and she would just combine everything that was in the pantry. She'd be like, you know what we're gonna have? Tuna sandwiches on hot dog buns, sit down. It's gonna be so fun.

• 13:06Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 13:07Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 13:08Georgia Hardstark?

  No, yeah, no. And that's that.

• 13:12Karen Kilgariff?

  And there's just one final page by the Alzheimer's Association in the back, that's like, don't eat anything in this recipe book.

• 13:21Karen Kilgariff?

  If you care about your memories.

• 13:22Georgia Hardstark?

  There's literally a single page marked salads.

• 13:28Georgia Hardstark?

  It's pretty great, it's probably one of my favorite things.

• 13:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just like, whatever salad you make, go ahead and put some aluminum foil on top of that bowl. Put it in the refrigerator.

• 13:38Georgia Hardstark?

  The frigidaire.

• 13:39Karen Kilgariff?

  The frigidaire. Or the icebox.

• 13:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Did Stephen think you were kidding when you said to put that one slide up that he made?

• 13:45Karen Kilgariff?

  It didn't matter, because he wants this slide. He wanted it up.

• 13:48Georgia Hardstark?

  So it better be up, because he sent us this, he made a, he took, I don't know how long it takes to make this shit, but whatever it is, he's not getting fucking paid for the time.

• 13:58Karen Kilgariff?

  We ask him, hey, if there's anything interesting going on in the towns we're going to, give us a little fucking email about it, because we don't know what's going on half the time.

• 14:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Anywhere, like, not even in our own town.

• 14:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. So we're just like, any updates, stuff that we need to know, whatever. And Stephen, in his, we called, I started calling it the hot sheet, sarcastically, and today is one of the pieces of information about Columbus.

• 14:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't say, I want to show them.

• 14:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Is connected to, then he goes, maybe you guys want to use this slide? Of course, I immediately respond, fuck, yeah. Is it a yes?

• 14:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Go back one, okay.

• 14:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Vince.

• 14:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Vince, on it!

• 14:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Holding it down! Yeah!

• 14:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Holding it, holding it down for us backstage.

• 14:46Georgia Hardstark?

  We hear that there's someone here from your town that's really special, and so, hey!

• 14:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey! Look!

• 14:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Stephen! They're mad at you!

• 15:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome to Flavortown, people who already live in Flavortown.

• 15:10Georgia Hardstark?

  He made it.

• 15:13Karen Kilgariff?

  We've made it to Flavortown.

• 15:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know how to, what if I just didn't know how to high five this whole time?

• 15:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, it's, what's very funny is, within the little paragraph, Stephen included the factoid that his real name is Guy Ferry. Like a boat.

• 15:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Karen Kilgariff?

  People are bummed, I'm sorry. There's a bunch of Italian-Americans in the audience who are livid right now.

• 15:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I met him in Cleveland, remember?

• 15:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, remember?

• 15:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Remember when you weren't there?

• 15:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Anyway.

• 15:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Tell it.

• 15:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know.

• 15:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a good funny anecdote.

• 15:48Georgia Hardstark?

  So I was on.

• 15:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Get your hand off your hip and tell these people that story.

• 15:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, yeah, I was in Cleveland with a fancy food show, and he was really nice, and he invited myself in my front alley. We did cocktails onstage to like, make a cocktail for his fans. And it was really scary, because I'd never been in front of more than like 30 people on a stage in my life, and it was like, the size of this room.

• 16:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 16:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Now I don't care, but, we did, and we brought this cocktail, and it was this like Thanksgiving yam cocktail.

• 16:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 16:18Georgia Hardstark?

  She went to shake the cocktail, and the top flew off, and yams flew all over everyone onstage, including Guy Ferry.

• 16:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Blended up yams?

• 16:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 16:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Cocktail yams.

• 16:27Georgia Hardstark?

  With whiskey.

• 16:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit.

• 16:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm, and the crowd was mad at us. Because we spilled yam on their lord and savior.

• 16:38Georgia Hardstark?

  He was really nice, he never spoke to us again. He was very, he laughed.

• 16:42Karen Kilgariff?

  He didn't do some follow-up hangs and emails?

• 16:44Georgia Hardstark?

  No, he didn't want to hang out after that.

• 16:46Karen Kilgariff?

  That's weird, I thought Hollywood was different than that.

• 16:50Karen Kilgariff?

  What did he say onstage when things spilled?

• 16:53Georgia Hardstark?

  He laughed, he was very sweet about it. There's a photo of me in a vintage dress hugging him with yam all over the place. He was very sweet about it.

• 17:01Karen Kilgariff?

  He didn't do any hand gestures or anything?

• 17:03Georgia Hardstark?

  He didn't go like this, no.

• 17:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Kabam? Kabam? I'm not a fan, I don't know what he said.

• 17:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It's kabam!

• 17:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't watch his stuff, I just love him.

• 17:12Georgia Hardstark?

  It's definitely kabam.

• 17:13Karen Kilgariff?

  It's kabam.

• 17:14Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not kabam, I don't know, yeah. Um, my mom, should we sit down?

• 17:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess so.

• 17:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't, I know it's cold weather business, but like, I just don't, I can't keep a shoe clean in this cold weather situation. Every time I look down, it looks like I've been going like this on my shoes. I swear I haven't.

• 17:39Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought you didn't have shoes on, because they look like you have socks on, but you don't.

• 17:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm just wearing my gym jams.

• 17:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Jammys.

• 17:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, they use the good tablecloth, thank you. So much.

• 17:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, great, oh my god!

• 17:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah. This was not balled up in the back of someone's car at all. They're probably like, what, why the fuck did they need a tablecloth?

• 18:01Georgia Hardstark?

  No one was screaming about a tablecloth. Vince was not saying, it was on the rider. Nobody was doing that.

• 18:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, what, and they want a rug? Get the fuck out, we don't even know who you are!

• 18:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Wait, what is a podcast? Women aren't supposed to be alone onstage? Jesus.

• 18:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Everybody knows that live podcasts are made and broken by the Oriental rugs that they're done upon.

• 18:27Georgia Hardstark?

  A hundred percent. Our worst show is when we were on an Ikea rug, not a toucher.

• 18:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, those weird patterns, squares and stuff?

• 18:37Georgia Hardstark?

  So distracting, yeah.

• 18:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back. Karen, do you remember being in Columbus and at the Palace Theater?

• 18:46Karen Kilgariff?

  I genuinely remember a lot of that show.

• 18:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I know what I was wearing, is that fucking weird? I have a photo of me from that night of what I was wearing.

• 18:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's not weird for you at all. That's kind of how you file things, right?

• 18:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I just remember the build, it was just a hit show from the second it started, like, you felt it just take off.

• 19:07Georgia Hardstark?

  It was calm. You know what I think really helps with that? Like, I remember being in Columbus that day and looking around and being like, this is such a. Cool city. I've never been here. Like, who knows if I'll be back here. But I fucking like this place. And then going in to do the show after having gotten to know the place a little bit.

• 19:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Is like such a, like, oh, we're just doing this for friends.

• 19:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. And that rad vintage store we went to.

• 19:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. I absolutely remember that. And then, like, if you go do things that day, you run into murderinos, or who are, you know, you inevitably run into murderinos. So then you've met your friends already.

• 19:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 19:42Georgia Hardstark?

  It feels much more casual, like hometowny.

• 19:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. You know, you're looking out into that darkness, but you know who you're talking to.

• 19:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:49Karen Kilgariff?

  You've already gotten some, some advanced diplomats from, from the culture who came to meet, meet at the thrift store or whatever.

• 19:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 19:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Really quick, Maren looked it up, Flower Child Vintage is still open in Columbus. You can go there.

• 20:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Hell, yeah.

• 20:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's in the Italian Village. Specializes in 20th century clothes, furniture, housewares and decor.

• 20:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I think it's the one where I went, I need to get a U-Haul truck, come here, and then just drive back to LA, fill it up in Columbus, because it was like, yeah, it's ridiculous.

• 20:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was good.

• 20:21Georgia Hardstark?

  So much good shit. All right, should we get into it?

• 20:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, let's, uh, it's time to get into Georgia's story about Donald Harvey.

• 20:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi.

• 20:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi.

• 20:40Georgia Hardstark?

  I go first?

• 20:40Karen Kilgariff?

  You go first.

• 20:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Okay, you guys, Ohio.

• 20:49Georgia Hardstark?

  You guys, are you ready for your angel of death, Donald Harvey?

• 20:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 20:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Aw, shit.

• 20:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Aw, shit is right. Okay, April.

• 21:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's the one thing I know about all angels of death.

• 21:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 21:05Karen Kilgariff?

  They love a transition lens. They're just fucking, they love an 80s math teacher glasses situation for themselves.

• 21:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Afternoon to evening?

• 21:17Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, yeah, exactly. They're like, I might want to step outside the hospital door and have a quick smoke before I go kill nine more people.

• 21:24Georgia Hardstark?

  But I don't want the trouble of changing my glasses.

• 21:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm not gonna change into different glasses.

• 21:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's high maintenance.

• 21:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Help me, Lenscrafters, they all say.

• 21:35Georgia Hardstark?

  It's true. God, I don't want to disappoint you. What's the photo? I have a photo of him. We'll take a look.

• 21:40Karen Kilgariff?

  All right.

• 21:41Georgia Hardstark?

  In April 1987.

• 21:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Ding.

• 21:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Where's Karen in 1987?

• 21:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, 87? That's a senior year of high school. So I'm at the bottom of a Mickey's Big Mouth. Trying to explain somewhat to someone, probably, I'm trying to explain to my father how the words of Depeche Mode's "People are people" are actually about him and his racist problems.

• 22:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 22:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't listen to the words, Dad.

• 22:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you hear that?

• 22:08Karen Kilgariff?

  People are people.

• 22:09Georgia Hardstark?

  People are people, it doesn't matter. And I swear to God, this was a real conversation my dad and I had. And the tape was in the tape deck. And I was crying outside of my dance studio, telling him to listen to the words, and finally, just sitting there pretending to listen to the words, finally. And I went to say something else, and he goes, I get it, be nice to people.

• 22:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Children.

• 22:35Karen Kilgariff?

  87, baby.

• 22:36Georgia Hardstark?

  87. All right. Well, in 1987, at Drake Hospital, 44-year-old John Powell, he had been in a coma for several months, ever since a motorcycle accident. He died from complications of pneumonia. In Ohio, it turns out that when you're in a car accident, an autopsy is required. So.

• 22:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That is a good idea.

• 22:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Insurance companies, man, they are fucking.

• 23:01Karen Kilgariff?

  On it.

• 23:02Georgia Hardstark?

  In it and on it.

• 23:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And about it.

• 23:04Georgia Hardstark?

  And around it.

• 23:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Loving it.

• 23:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so coroner Dr. Lee Layman, he's a forensic, yes, he's a forensic psychologist. He has a background in biochemistry, so he's probably a blast at parties. He.

• 23:20Karen Kilgariff?

  He's like, guess what this one will do to you?

• 23:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Take it.

• 23:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Zip zap.

• 23:27Georgia Hardstark?

  So he's like, great, probably getting ready to go to lunch. And he's like, I'll just do this one real quick, it'll be fine, and no big deal. But, no, it turns out, he suddenly smells the faint smell of almonds.

• 23:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 23:40Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right, it's a fucking almond croissant. No.

• 23:46Georgia Hardstark?

  It's cyanide. And did you know that only 60% of people can smell that, cyanide?

• 23:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, wow.

• 23:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't that interesting? So if he hadn't been one of those people, you know.

• 23:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I wonder if that's part of being a doctor.

• 23:58Georgia Hardstark?

  That you have to.

• 23:59Karen Kilgariff?

  After you take your boards, then there's the smell test. They never talk about it.

• 24:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but they make you pay for school and take your boards, and then they make you smell it.

• 24:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And then they're like, pulling out that croissant, like, let's see if you're gonna be a doctor. Aw, sorry. Go be a dentist.

• 24:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right, I slammed dentists.

• 24:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen's got a deep-seated hatred.

• 24:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I do. Look at these fucking teeth.

• 24:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so authorities are like, oh, shit. And they start looking into John's family, of course, friends. They all take lie detector tests, and nobody had been giving him cyanide.

• 24:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Turns out.

• 24:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, they were a great liar. No. And then they were like, well, let's check all the people who had come in contact with him at the hospital, of course. So all the nurses and everyone, they are cleared. And then when it's this dude's, Donald Harvey's, turn to take a lie detector test, he's fucking sick that day.

• 24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 24:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, red flag.

• 25:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It's 87, so how did he call in sick?

• 25:02Georgia Hardstark?

  What's up?

• 25:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Top and bottom.

• 25:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. The entirety of the phone. Then, so when they questioned him, he immediately is like, yeah, I fucking did it.

• 25:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Immediately?

• 25:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 25:15Georgia Hardstark?

  He doesn't try to lie. He's like, I did it because I felt bad for him, he was suffering, et cetera, blah, blah, blah. And so police are like, okay, great. And, but they didn't know it at the time, but they had just ended the run of one of the most prolific serial killers of all time.

• 25:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 25:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Donald Harvey, the angel of death.

• 25:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Of all time, Columbus.

• 25:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:37Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, they're like, we've got a ton of those, don't worry about it. He's not the only one.

• 25:43Georgia Hardstark?

  So Donald was born, it's also, he's, never mind.

• 25:46Karen Kilgariff?

  What? Tell me the secret in front of them.

• 25:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Well, he worked in Cincinnati. I just didn't want anyone to be mad at me.

• 25:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Aw, shit. She said, I just, I just didn't want anyone to be mad.

• 26:01Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't control them that way. If I don't say the word Cincinnati, everyone will stay happy the whole show.

• 26:09Karen Kilgariff?

  They don't even know what they're cheering for at this point.

• 26:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Cyanide? What's wrong with you guys?

• 26:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Why do you love cyanide in Cincinnati?

• 26:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, Donald Harvey is born in Butler County, Ohio, in 1952. You, you, you.

• 26:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Such a nice county.

• 26:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm.

• 26:26Karen Kilgariff?

  That man in the tuxedos there the whole time.

• 26:29Georgia Hardstark?

  He's leading everyone to their seats.

• 26:32Karen Kilgariff?

  In Butler County, everyone has a personal usher all day.

• 26:37Georgia Hardstark?

  They're known for it.

• 26:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:39Georgia Hardstark?

  He, okay, shortly after his birth, his parents moved to Boonville, Kentucky, small community.

• 26:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, up in the balcony, Boonville, baby.

• 26:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 26:51Georgia Hardstark?

  At six months, at six months old, father falls asleep while he's holding him, clonk hits his fucking head.

• 26:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 26:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Dad.

• 26:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Falls asleep.

• 27:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Exactly. And at five years old.

• 27:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, I could have done it with an actual cup.

• 27:09Georgia Hardstark?

  That's not improv.

• 27:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I do with my hand and immediately just real soon. Oh, the lost opportunity.

• 27:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do it, do it over.

• 27:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 27:20Georgia Hardstark?

  And then at five years old, he has another fucking head injury. Just saying, I'm not saying one leads to the other.

• 27:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Doesn't fit there. Sorry, it doesn't fit there.

• 27:29Georgia Hardstark?

  So his mother, Goldie, insists that he was brought up in a loving family environment, he was a happy child, all his, it looks like all his teachers were, thought he was great and he had a great childhood. But then it's like, no, actually, he was molested from four years old to 20 years old.

• 27:44Karen Kilgariff?

  What the fuck?

• 27:44Georgia Hardstark?

  By two different fucking men. His uncle and his fucking neighbor. So I think mom is golden, Goldie over her eyes more than anything else.

• 27:54Karen Kilgariff?

  She's doing a little bit of, we had the best time.

• 27:57Georgia Hardstark?

  By the way, we forgot to tell the rules that this is a true crime comedy podcast. We're not laughing at the, I guess we're laughing.

• 28:04Karen Kilgariff?

  It's too late.

• 28:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It's way too late.

• 28:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Please butler yourself out if you don't like it.

• 28:10Georgia Hardstark?

  If you raise your hand, someone will come grab you.

• 28:12Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, if you were the mother of someone who ends up being one of the most prolific serial killers of all time, you're gonna go into fucking full denial mode anyway.

• 28:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 28:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You're probably very good at it.

• 28:21Georgia Hardstark?

  It's no one's fault. It's not my fault.

• 28:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Certainly not my fault.

• 28:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So, but he was well-liked by all his teachers, but his, it seems like he liked, he was better with adults than with children, you know?

• 28:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Me too.

• 28:35Georgia Hardstark?

  He was super smart, but he was bored, so he drops out of high school. In 1970, his mother asked him to take care of his sick grandfather, who had been placed in Marymount Hospital in London, Kentucky. And he's like, great, I'm there.

• 28:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I'd love to be there.

• 28:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. I think he's like 18 years old at this time, which what 18-year-old doesn't want to go?

• 28:56Karen Kilgariff?

  God, is it some kind of a convalescent hospital? That would be perfect for me.

• 29:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm there, absolutely.

• 29:01Karen Kilgariff?

  That's my summer vacation.

• 29:04Georgia Hardstark?

  He spends a lot of time at the hospital so much that the nuns who work there, like, loved this guy, he's a sweet baby angel. And so one of the nuns asked Harvey if he wanted to work there as an orderly. And he's like, yes.

• 29:17Karen Kilgariff?

  And then she slapped him across the face.

• 29:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Is that what they do?

• 29:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 29:24Georgia Hardstark?

  800 people just had flashbacks in this audience. Were there 800 people? Yeah, there's gotta be. Okay. Even though he wasn't trained as a nurse, his duties required him to spend long hours, not long, but a lot of time with patients alone. Some of his duties included changing bedpans, inserting catheters, and passing out medications, the fun stuff.

• 29:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's party time.

• 29:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 29:45Karen Kilgariff?

  This is, this is his version of MTV's Spring Break.

• 29:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking stoked.

• 29:52Georgia Hardstark?

  During one evening, just months after he started working at the hospital, Donald commits his first murder.

• 30:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And here he is tonight, ladies and gentlemen. Please say hello.

• 30:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Was that Death? I think that was actually, the Grim Reaper is here tonight.

• 30:10Karen Kilgariff?

  The Grim Reaper's like, "Yes, girl." "Kill them all, bitch." "Slay them all." "Literally slay them all."

• 30:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, here's what happens. And tell me how you'd feel about this.

• 30:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 30:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Donald goes into this patient's room to do, to check on him. He's, he had had a stroke before. Goes into this patient, fucking rubs feces all over Donald's face.

• 30:38Karen Kilgariff?

  What? So I don't like that? If that's the question you're about to ask me.

• 30:45Georgia Hardstark?

  He becomes angry, loses all control. Later, he says, "The next thing I knew, I'd smothered him." Okay, "I'd smothered him." "It was like, it was like it was the last straw. I just lost it. I went to help the man, and he wants to rub that in my face?"

• 30:57Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he doesn't want to.

• 30:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Following the murder. So then Harvey, then he cleans up the patient, takes a shower real quick, and then tells the nurses that the guy was dead. And no one ever questioned it, he said. Just three weeks, so that's his first murder. Just three weeks later, he kills again when he disconnected an oxygen tank to an elderly woman's, uh, oxygen.

• 31:20Georgia Hardstark?

  What do they call it?

• 31:23Georgia Hardstark?

  When no one suspected him, he starts to get more brazen. He used various techniques to kill. He used a plastic bag to suffocate patients, morphine, and a variety of other drug overdoses. In the first year, he kills more than a dozen patients.

• 31:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Do you want to see a picture of him?

• 31:41Karen Kilgariff?

  She's asking me.

• 31:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Doesn't he look like a fucking Brady?

• 31:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Which one, Mike? No, the middle one.

• 31:51Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, um...

• 31:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Greg.

• 31:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Peter.

• 31:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Peter. He's the, he's the Brady they keep in the sub-basement.

• 31:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Look at how bright and cheery his eyes look.

• 32:05Karen Kilgariff?

  What is he thinking about?

• 32:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Feces.

• 32:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus.

• 32:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Can you imagine being in a bed in a hospital, and then those eyes come in to you?

• 32:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you need some juice?

• 32:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. "I'm feeling better." You just pop out of bed and...

• 32:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Whew, the fever's broken. Bye.

• 32:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Goddamn.

• 32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 32:31Georgia Hardstark?

  A dozen patients in a year. Okay. Around this time, he starts a relationship. He's, so he's gay. He starts a relationship with a man named Vernon Midden. He is an older man. He's married with children, and he's an undertaker. Oh, my God. Check, check, check.

• 32:48Karen Kilgariff?

  A little bit, a little bit hacky. How much older?

• 32:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I think he was in his 40s.

• 32:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 32:55Georgia Hardstark?

  So he tells him about all these, like, different ways to kill people and things that will, like, affect, you know? So he learns a lot from this undertaker. He also learns about...

• 33:05Karen Kilgariff?

  You gotta talk about something at Olive Garden, you know?

• 33:10Georgia Hardstark?

  He also introduces Donald to his favorite pastime, Vernon's favorite pastime, the occult.

• 33:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 33:15Georgia Hardstark?

  You know.

• 33:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Mine, too.

• 33:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I think we have, I, I think this is him.

• 33:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I have a picture of the occult right here.

• 33:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. I watched this, like, hokey documentary on YouTube about it, and I'd had to stop it and take a screen grab of this amazing photo because I was like, either way. And then there was also, like, it was one of those, um, it was one of those documentaries that, like, they say a line dramatically, and then they show, like, some stock footage of, like, you know, "And then they went to the police." And you just see, like, a car, like, driving. That it means to go to the police. But then I'm like, "And he was into the occult." And it just shows, like, a, like, pentagram with the word "occult" across the front. With, like, "S- occult." And it's like, okay.

• 33:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's the occult.

• 33:58Georgia Hardstark?

  That came up. And so I was like, "Well, they need to see this."

• 34:00Karen Kilgariff?

  So this is, you think it could possibly be the undertaker, like, on the weekend.

• 34:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-huh. That's what they, that's what they made it seem like.

• 34:06Karen Kilgariff?

  This is him just on, like, on the phone. "Let's all go out. Hold on, let me put on my upside-down crucifix."

• 34:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Real quick.

• 34:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Or it's a, they went and had a Rocky Horror Picture Show live.

• 34:20Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. Well, so, okay. He gets, so then, um, oh, he gets a, he gets a spiritual guide when he, he joins the occult as well.

• 34:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And he gets a spiritual guide named Duncan, who was a doctor in his past life, a ghost, I guess, that would assist him with figuring out who to kill.

• 34:42Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 34:42Georgia Hardstark?

  She's like, "That's not real."

• 34:44Karen Kilgariff?

  So he joins the occult to him. See in a circle. And immediately is like, "I love killing, and I kill." And then they're like, "Here's great ways to do it."

• 34:55Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I, I, it's his, like, it's his, like, ghost guide.

• 34:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, oh. This is all, okay, it's in his head.

• 35:01Georgia Hardstark?

  It's in his fucking head.

• 35:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry. Pictured at the occult meeting, sitting in a circle in folding chairs.

• 35:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Duncan, you've got to meet our friend over here. Donald?

• 35:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Does anybody have ideas about new ways to kill?

• 35:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So he gets, uh, Donald gets caught burglarizing when he's drunk one night, um, which I'm sure is, like, the worst way to burglarize, is when you're drunk.

• 35:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Into a house?

• 35:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I think, like, I don't know, into an apartment building.

• 35:29Karen Kilgariff?

  No, save drunk burglarizing for just shoplifting at CVS.

• 35:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 35:35Karen Kilgariff?

  We pick CVS up, and then we put them back down.

• 35:37Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 35:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Right in their place.

• 35:41Georgia Hardstark?

  So he gets caught, you know, he has to leave his job because of it. It's a story. And he enlists in the Air Force.

• 35:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Perfect solution. The occult Air Force.

• 35:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Serves less than a year before he's discharged in March of 1972. After he's released, he has a severe bout of depression, which he does throughout his life. He attempts suicide. And in 1972, he commits himself to the mental ward of, uh, the Veterans Administration in Lexington, Kentucky.

• 36:13Georgia Hardstark?

  You guys are on the mental ward, too?

• 36:16Karen Kilgariff?

  They're on a holiday pass.

• 36:18Georgia Hardstark?

  While there, he receives, over the course of a few weeks, receives over 21 electric shock therapies.

• 36:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck. I really hate those parts of, like, old mental hospital movies when they're like, they're laid down, and someone's holding...

• 36:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Write a pencil.

• 36:32Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the fucking worst.

• 36:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 36:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's just think about it first.

• 36:38Georgia Hardstark?

  After working various jobs where he didn't kill anyone, that's where I summed that up, because it was like, "He worked all this time, and blah, blah, blah." Just, he didn't kill anyone.

• 36:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 36:46Georgia Hardstark?

  At this job. He moves back to Cincinnati in September 1975, where he gets a job working the night shift at the Cincinnati VA Medical Hospital. He works as a...

• 36:58Karen Kilgariff?

  That, that hospital you're against?

• 37:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it haunted?

• 37:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Because you know some bad shit's about to go down. He works as a nursing assistant, housekeeping aide, a cardiac catheterization technician. And autopsy assistant.

• 37:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Get in there, buddy.

• 37:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Since he worked at night, he had no supervision. He had access to all areas of the hospital, which sounds horrible to us.

• 37:27Karen Kilgariff?

  If you work in the daytime, you have to have a certain kind of pass. You have to be a doctor to be on certain wards. And then after 11, all those rules just go away. And it's just like, whoever wants to be here gets to be here. Do your thing.

• 37:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Free-for-all.

• 37:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Over the next 10 years, uh, Donald Harvey murders at least 15 patients while working at the hospital.

• 37:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 37:48Georgia Hardstark?

  He keeps a precise diary of his crimes, takes note on each victim, detailing how he murdered them. He presses plastic bags and a wet towel over the mouth and nose. He sprinkles rat poison in patients' desserts. He puts arsenic and cyanide into orange juice. He injects cyanide into intravenous tubes. And all the while, uh, he's studying medical journals for hints on how to kill people and how to conceal his crimes.

• 38:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And here's how he studies.

• 38:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Laser eyes burning each page.

• 38:25Georgia Hardstark?

  But at this point, he doesn't just keep his murdery stuff to his patients. He, in the early 80s, he moves in with his lover, Carl Howler. And soon, so he finds out Carl's going out on Sundays and, like, hooking up with other dudes, and he gets pissed. So Carl starts getting sick on Sundays and can't go out.

• 38:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 38:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 38:47Karen Kilgariff?

  The old Sunday flu?

• 38:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Karen Kilgariff?

  After you have your croissant, and then you're like, "I feel weird."

• 38:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm. Because Donald starts slipping him small doses of arsenic so that he wouldn't be able to leave the apartment. Then Carl has a female, the boyfriend, Carl has a female BFF. And Donald, of course, is like, "She is getting in the way of our relationship."

• 39:07Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 39:08Georgia Hardstark?

  The crazies.

• 39:09Karen Kilgariff?

  The old hag comes in and is like, "Uh, can I see that croissant, please?"

• 39:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Carl, your boyfriend seems like a psychotic murderer. And the psychotic murderer's like, "I'm gonna kill this bitch." Right? So he, okay, this is so fucked up.

• 39:24Georgia Hardstark?

  She, he doesn't kill her, but he retaliates the way any sane person would by infecting her with hepatitis.

• 39:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 39:35Karen Kilgariff?

  This guy is not chill.

• 39:38Karen Kilgariff?

  He's not.

• 39:39Georgia Hardstark?

  They catch it and treat her. He also tried to infect her with AIDS, but it didn't work.

• 39:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus Christ.

• 39:44Georgia Hardstark?

  What in the fucking fuck?

• 39:46Karen Kilgariff?

  What? They're just going to the beer bust. It's not that big of a deal.

• 39:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Let them party.

• 39:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Another neighbor who Donald thought was getting in between him and Carl was Helen Mexker. She's a 63-year-old woman. Donald makes her a pie laced with arsenic.

• 40:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus Christ.

• 40:01Georgia Hardstark?

  She dies.

• 40:04Karen Kilgariff?

  So he's just basically trying to kill everyone all the time?

• 40:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 40:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 40:08Georgia Hardstark?

  In April 1983, Donald has an argument with Carl's parents, his boyfriend's parents.

• 40:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh oh.

• 40:14Georgia Hardstark?

  They piss him off, so he starts to poison their food with arsenic. Carl's father, Henry, suffers a stroke, is taken to the hospital. Donald visits him, puts arsenic in his pudding, and he dies that fucking night.

• 40:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus Christ.

• 40:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Harvey continued to poison Carl's mother, Margaret, on and off for the next year, but he didn't kill her.

• 40:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh...

• 40:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Then, poor Carl. Then he accidentally kills Carl's brother-in-law.

• 40:44Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 40:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Because, his name's Howard Vedder, Donald made him some cocktails using a bottle of vodka that Donald, oops, forgot had wood alcohol in it. So he'd been like taking tape off of something, I don't know, in a vodka bottle and was like, "Let me mix she up, uh, whatever."

• 41:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Is he claiming it's truly a mistake?

• 41:03Georgia Hardstark?

  He says it is, but do we, is this the person we believe?

• 41:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I know, but he says it like, "It was a mistake."

• 41:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, his death is attributed to cardiac failure. So in January 198... what?

• 41:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just so many people to die around one person.

• 41:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 41:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Even if it was like the best sex of your life, you'd be like, "I'm sorry, I have to take a break." Like, "I just have to run the numbers and see."

• 41:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Since it's just you and I left and I know that I'm not killing everybody. I, it's just, "Hunch, I should break up with you."

• 41:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And he's like, "Every time you pull out your creative cooking with aluminum foil recipe, someone gets sick."

• 41:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Someone dies.

• 41:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. Okay, so 1984, January, Carl breaks off the relationship and asks him to move out. Donald's angry, spends the next two years trying to kill Carl.

• 42:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus.

• 42:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Then he doesn't. And then on July 18th, 1985, security guards search Donald's gym bag at work. They find a 38 caliber pistol, hypodermic needles, surgical scissors and gloves, a cocaine spoon, various medical texts, two occult books, and a biography of serial killers, serial killer, Charles Sabrage. Sabrage? He's the Bikini Killer. You know him?

• 42:24Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 42:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course, I had to fucking look him up. Stay tuned to a future episode. I might be able to spit on you.

• 42:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you're taking the Bikini Killer? I wanted him. So it's basically, they open a bag and there's a piece of paper that says, "I'm super guilty" inside.

• 42:40Georgia Hardstark?

  "All I want to do is continue to kill people."

• 42:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I just, I can't stop killing. I'm doing it as we speak.

• 42:46Georgia Hardstark?

  And I enjoy it.

• 42:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Come get me.

• 42:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so the hospital's like, "Look, just, if you quietly resign, we won't put a mark on your record. We'll like, won't tell anyone at the place you, you want to get a job in the future."

• 43:00Karen Kilgariff?

  We want, we want you to continue doing this, just not here.

• 43:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 43:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh. So he quietly resigns, rather than being fired. Nothing about the incident is ever noted in his work record, and hospital authorities didn't open an investigation to determine if he had committed any other crimes while working at the hospital.

• 43:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, it turns out his mom ran that hospital, so...

• 43:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Seven months later, in February 1986, Donald was hired as a nurse's aide at Cincinnati's Drake Memorial Hospital. From, you guys hate that.

• 43:34Karen Kilgariff?

  No one gives a shit.

• 43:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck that hospital.

• 43:36Karen Kilgariff?

  That's where Cincinnati drops out hard. No way are we supporting Drake.

• 43:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-mm.

• 43:42Karen Kilgariff?

  What about the singer Drake?

• 43:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It's up to Grassi.

• 43:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 43:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the only way I know him.

• 43:53Georgia Hardstark?

  You can't not know that.

• 43:55Karen Kilgariff?

  That, and then there was an Instagram picture where he piled up money, where I was like, "That's not that cool." What? Don't tell him I said that.

• 44:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Add that.

• 44:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Please, Stephen.

• 44:04Georgia Hardstark?

  You know this is his favorite podcast.

• 44:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Drake is crying at home alone in a bed of money.

• 44:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm trying so hard to get away from DeGrassi.

• 44:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Thousand dollar bill, thousand dollar bill.

• 44:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Ugh, eye infection, eye infection.

• 44:19Karen Kilgariff?

  No one touches thousand dollar bills.

• 44:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, and when you're that rich, it's all brand new money.

• 44:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It's brand new money. Sometimes you go down and you exchange it at the mint, just if you feel like it.

• 44:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 44:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 44:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Good. Okay. Okay. From April 1986 until March 1987, Donald kills 26 patients.

• 44:39Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so many.

• 44:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh, and tries to kill several more by, let me tell you, I'm gonna keep naming names.

• 44:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Please do.

• 44:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Disconnecting life support machines, injecting air into veins, which is like the scary, I hate that one so much.

• 44:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a bad one.

• 44:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Phew. Suffocation and injection of arsenic, cyanide, and petroleum-based cleansers.

• 44:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Say that one again?

• 45:00Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 45:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Is, is mace involved?

• 45:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Based.

• 45:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Petroleum?

• 45:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Petroleum-based cleansers. I don't know what that is.

• 45:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Neutrogena? What's wrong?

• 45:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. I just copied and pasted it. I don't know what it is. I didn't look that one up. Bikini Killer? Yes.

• 45:22Karen Kilgariff?

  They're like, "Do not use Noxima. It will fucking kill your face."

• 45:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Back to, okay, we're back to the beginning of this awful story of 1987, April. Donald's like, "Yeah, I killed that one motorcycle accident victim because I felt bad for him. That's it. Bye."

• 45:41Georgia Hardstark?

  And so that same day though, he had, but, PS, that same day he had also killed an 82-year-old woman, Hilda Letz, by feeding her Detachol through...

• 45:52Karen Kilgariff?

  With Detachol?

• 45:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Detachol.

• 45:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Detachol.

• 45:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Detachol. Nurses, um, through her gastric tube and in her orange juice. So he had killed two fucking people that day.

• 46:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 46:03Georgia Hardstark?

  And he was like, "No, I just killed that one guy because I felt bad for him." Then investigators like, "Great, we're gonna go look through your apartment." They find like 300 pounds of cyanide and arsenic. Made that number up, but it was a lot. They find, so jars of, because he was just bringing it from home. He didn't even need to steal it anymore from the fucking...

• 46:21Karen Kilgariff?

  He's got that Tupperware lunchbox. It's got all the different little sized containers.

• 46:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Arsenic's in the circular one. No, that's salad dressing. It's not deadly at all.

• 46:31Georgia Hardstark?

  They find that, they find books on the occult and poisons, a detailed account of the murders.

• 46:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Love that.

• 46:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, "Don't do that, dude," which he had written in a diary. So they, they come back and they're like, "Look."

• 46:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen.

• 46:43Georgia Hardstark?

  We look and listen. Something's up, bro. And they're, and Ohio has the motherfucking death penalty, so you better, you better start plea dealing. And he's like, "Okay, that's transcript."

• 46:59Georgia Hardstark?

  On August 11th, 1987, Harvey, who's 35, sits down with investigators and confesses to committing 33 murders over the past 17 years.

• 47:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 47:09Georgia Hardstark?

  At the day, the days go on though, that number eventually grows to 70.

• 47:13Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 47:16Karen Kilgariff?

  He's up in Chickatillo territory. It's crazy.

• 47:20Georgia Hardstark?

  He said that the reason he got away with it for 17 years was that the doctors, that doctors are overworked and sometimes don't even see the patients after they die. So he's also kind of blaming it on the hospitals for not checking up on him and all, it, it's so weird. And then you read, there's like a list of every single person he killed, and some of them are like, he, he says he's an angel of death and he's trying to help them and, you know, they're sick and dying and he wants to save them. And some of them, you can see that they were actually sick and dying. That doesn't mean he was trying to help them, but some of them, well, most of them were not.

• 47:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 47:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And he's a monster.

• 47:53Karen Kilgariff?

  They're like, "I just had a nice eye lift. I was gonna go live my life."

• 47:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, totally. Although one of his ex-boyfriends had said to him, "When I'm, if I get sick and I am gonna, I'm dying, put me out of my misery."

• 48:07Karen Kilgariff?

  He's like, "On it."

• 48:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:09Karen Kilgariff?

  "I already am."

• 48:10Georgia Hardstark?

  You've come to the, and you want like your loved one to argue, "No, I would never," you know? But he's like, "Great, I'll do it." You're like, "Oh, shit."

• 48:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you want air in your tube? Do you want it really rotten tea?

• 48:23Georgia Hardstark?

  By 1998, he had been convicted of 28 counts of murder and seven counts of attempted murder. Total eventually that he would convicted of was 36 murders. 35 men, 11 women, ranging in age from 42 to 91.

• 48:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 48:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Plus one conviction for intentional manslaughter. He claimed to have killed 87 people, and there's probably a lot that we'll never know, obviously. So, up until, he was serving, he got four life sentences.

• 48:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Just four?

• 48:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 48:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 48:54Georgia Hardstark?

  He's serving them, what's up? Then, back on, in March of this year.

• 48:59Karen Kilgariff?

  He's still alive?

• 49:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh. That, that was like in the 90s, 898.

• 49:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 49:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Back in March of 2017, couple, what's up?

• 49:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 49:07Georgia Hardstark?

  He, he's 64 years old. He's found beaten in his cell at Toledo Collection Institute in Toledo, Ohio.

• 49:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit, Toledo.

• 49:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And he dies from his injuries two days later.

• 49:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 49:22Georgia Hardstark?

  No assailant is ever identified. And that is your fucking, um, what's it called?

• 49:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Angel of Death?

• 49:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Donald Harvey.

• 49:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 49:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Heavy.

• 49:35Karen Kilgariff?

  When they interview those, when they interview the prisoners that beat him to death, they were like, "No, no, we were just putting him out of his misery."

• 49:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 49:43Karen Kilgariff?

  He was very sickly.

• 49:45Georgia Hardstark?

  It's really weird because in the documentary I did watch, like, he willingly, he's just clearly so, I don't know, it's so weird, he like, is interviewed for this documentary, and he's like, "Yeah, I'll tell you everything." Like, he really wants the attention.

• 49:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 49:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And he kept throughout, every time he'd get in trouble in the past, he'd be like, "Yeah, I killed a bunch of people." And he, like, he wanted to tell people and he wanted attention for it so badly. And he was like, "I made this big mistake. If I hadn't done this thing, I'd have been fine." He, he's just like so weirdly lighthearted about it.

• 50:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 50:14Georgia Hardstark?

  It's creepy as fuck.

• 50:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It's crazy.

• 50:16Georgia Hardstark?

  And he looks like a Brady the whole time.

• 50:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow, that was amazing.

• 50:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 50:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck. Wow. Yeah.

• 50:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 50:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this?

• 50:35Georgia Hardstark?

  There is an update. In May of 2019, the fellow inmate, James Elliott, who was serving time for a series of burglaries, was charged in Harvey's fatal prison beating at Toledo Correctional Institution. It's so wild, go from burglaries to murder. Like, you've gotta wonder what happened. Elliott had reportedly sent letters to The Blade saying he punched and stomped Harvey when they were in his cell.

• 50:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 50:59Georgia Hardstark?

  And so in September 2019, Elliott pleaded guilty to killing Harvey and was sentenced to life in prison.

• 51:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 51:06Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, this is a great example of how it's great to do the horrible story first and then the next story.

• 51:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Take that left turn.

• 51:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, close on a good story, because we're about to get into one of the all-time greats, Karen's story about the Circleville Letter Writer.

• 51:24Georgia Hardstark?

  911, what's your emergency?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons. 911 Nashville returns.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  What's the homicide detective doing here?

• 51:36Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 51:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 52:19Speaker 06

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's Small Business Line of Credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 52:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, I'm gonna do the Circleville Letter Writer.

• 53:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you know this one? You don't know it?

• 53:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it the one with the... You know what? You should tell it to me.

• 53:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. You guess it for as long as you can.

• 53:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. I'm... Oh, is it the Circleville Letter Writer?

• 53:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah!

• 53:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God!

• 53:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes!

• 53:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I know that one. No, I don't. Oh, my God, oh, my God.

• 53:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Here's the best part about this is when... So, I thought for one day that I was gonna do the horrible murder of Dimebag Daryl from Pantera and Damage Plan. And when I started reading this fucking story, it was so awful. And then I emailed my friend Brian Posehn, who's a stand-up comic, hilarious stand-up comic.

• 53:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Was he friends with them?

• 53:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Huge metal fan. No, but he's a... I've known him since I was 20. And he is the hugest, like, metal fan in the world. So I was like, hey, got me any, you know, insider tips on Dimebag Daryl's death before I knew anything about it. And he wrote me back one of the saddest emails that I've ever read, where he was just like, "It was so fucked. It affected the metal community so badly. All of my friends that are in metal bands, think about it before every time they go on stage." It like, we always do cheers to him once a year on the anniversary of his death. And I was lightly crying in my hotel room, like, "I have to change my murder."

• 54:22Georgia Hardstark?

  And he's like, "But thanks for bringing that up."

• 54:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, exactly. But it was also very sweet, because he was like... I was like, "Thank you for that inside information." He's like, "I just want regular people to know that, like, metal fans aren't gross and we really have feelings and care."

• 54:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It was the sweetest and yet saddest thing in the world. I know, I love it. So, the Circleville Letter Writer, uh, so fascinating. And luckily and amazingly, there is a Dennis Farina hosted Unsolved Murder... Unsolved Mysteries about it.

• 54:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 54:55Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's the first one on that episode, so you know it's a good story.

• 54:59Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think I know it then, because I think the one I was thinking is newer.

• 55:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 55:02Georgia Hardstark?

  So let's do this.

• 55:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, let's do this thing. So, but the way I found it was then I had to go after I abandoned the Pantera murder. That's the... See, that's inaccurate. He was in Damage Plan. Do you see... Do you see how much I could fuck that up? I went online and I actually found an article that entitled, "The Mysterious and Unsolved: Five Columbus Mysteries Worthy of a Podcast."

• 55:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh! Shit! You couldn't have sent that my way?

• 55:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. No, I took them all to myself.

• 55:33Georgia Hardstark?

  You're to them all right now.

• 55:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm mine. It was written by a guy named Zoe Miller in his bio, in his... Do you know that guy? It's a great, it's a great article. Please tell him I liked it.

• 55:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, can I give a shout-out really quickly to my article?

• 55:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 55:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it's too late.

• 55:46Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it's okay. Get in there. Steven, could you cut this and paste it up top?

• 55:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm really excited to tell you guys about this. I found a lot of information from Murderpedia, of course, but from the article from serialkillercalender.com. So, thanks, guys.

• 56:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Serial Killer Calendar?

• 56:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I wonder if they do a serial killer a day? I don't know. That'd be cool.

• 56:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, now we're back in.

• 56:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 56:10Karen Kilgariff?

  So...

• 56:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven, right here.

• 56:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Zoe Miller, on his bio on this, the Columbus Navigator website, who he wrote this article for, he said, in his bio, he says that he struggles daily with his addiction to cats. I thought you'd like to know that. Yeah, hi.

• 56:29Georgia Hardstark?

  I do too.

• 56:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi, friend.

• 56:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, man.

• 56:33Karen Kilgariff?

  But most of the information that we're about to hear came from a local journalist named Martin Yant, who reported on this story, right? The Yants are in the back row? What up? He did all the work and was kind of there for this whole story. And he's also live in the Unsolved Mysteries, so it's very cool. So you can see him as talking head when you look up that episode. Okay, so, Circleville, Ohio, is a small city 25 miles south of here. It, um, the... Thank you, the population is around... Well, I got on the Circleville Pumpkin Show website.

• 57:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Truly one of the most beautiful and informative websites I've ever seen. No joke. So every year, they have the Circleville Pumpkin Show.

• 57:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh! I love pumpkins!

• 57:28Karen Kilgariff?

  So on the Circleville Pumpkin Show website, it says there, the population of Circleville is around 12,000. Other websites said 14. If Circleville says 12, it's fucking 12. So, every year, the third Wednesday through Sunday in October, they have the Circleville Pumpkin Show.

• 57:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 57:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, cheer for it every time. This year, it's from October 17th to the 20th. So, as of today, 256 days to the pumpkin show!

• 58:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a countdown.

• 58:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Is there a countdown?

• 58:03Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a countdown on the website.

• 58:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Love it.

• 58:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking love it. Just beautifully designed website. Everything's in a little square. So easy to navigate. The Fall Festival has 100,000 visitors a day.

• 58:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I want all the snacks. What do you think they have?

• 58:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, well, I'll tell you. There's pictures on the fucking website!

• 58:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Are there corn dogs?

• 58:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course they have corn dogs.

• 58:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Is there pumpkin-flavored food?

• 58:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes! That's the whole point!

• 58:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it's like pumpkin, like a pumpkin fair?

• 58:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes! Girl, this is squat gourds times 500.

• 58:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? That's where... They have pumpkin fucking arts and crafts.

• 58:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 58:44Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a really cute picture of somebody... Remember those, like, weird collages you made, like, in kindergarten where it's like little pieces of paper in different colors and you'd glue it to a thing? And because you were so young, that was how you made art? So it was like, your teacher made the pumpkin and then you were just like, pieces of paper with glue. They have like a wall of those on the website.

• 59:03Georgia Hardstark?

  It's all made by adults?

• 59:04Karen Kilgariff?

  The kids...

• 59:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Those are arts and crafts for drunk adults.

• 59:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Wouldn't that be a great idea?

• 59:11Karen Kilgariff?

  It would be so good. Everyone has glue on their face.

• 59:18Karen Kilgariff?

  There's rides.

• 59:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool.

• 59:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Full-on rides.

• 59:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool.

• 59:22Karen Kilgariff?

  There's, as I said, arts and crafts displays. And then, of course, one lucky young lady will be named Miss Pumpkin Show 2018.

• 59:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Which, if that is a beauty contest where you're the most beautiful if you're the most shaped like a pumpkin, I fucking, I want it already. I already, I'm in it.

• 59:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And if you have, like, kind of widely spaced teeth, I'm in.

• 59:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking, I am Miss Pumpkin Show every day.

• 59:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And on top of everything, there's a fucking giant pumpkin contest, am I right?

• 59:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God!

• 59:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Check it out! Here's last year's winners. In the center, you have Cecil Weston. He's the champion. That fucking pumpkin weighed 1,701 pounds.

• 1:00:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God!

• 1:00:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Cecil nailed that shit. What do you think he was putting in the ground?

• 1:00:15Karen Kilgariff?

  But then, second place, that's Bella Liggett.

• 1:00:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Bella!

• 1:00:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Hers, she was only 200 pounds behind with a 1,562-pound pumpkin. And of course, over there, you know Mark Hoffhines. His pumpkin was 1,155.5 pounds.

• 1:00:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:00:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Georgia Hardstark?

  You gotta love the fucking lady who breaks into the pumpkin business.

• 1:00:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you know.

• 1:00:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone knows what a fucking masculine thing it is.

• 1:00:43Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the pumpkin show business?

• 1:00:45Georgia Hardstark?

  It's very toxic.

• 1:00:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And Bella's like, "Fuck it, this is my dream. You can't keep me down?

• 1:00:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm... My pumpkin is humongous and none of you can change it. It's just a fact."

• 1:00:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you cannot shame me out of this contest?

• 1:01:01Karen Kilgariff?

  No. And then it turned out that she...

• 1:01:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, was there a scandal?

• 1:01:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, she tried to, um... She tried to hit Cecil in the knees. No, just kidding. She fucking Tonya Harding Cecil right before. And then someone's like, "Bella, it's the pumpkins that get weighed. It's not about, it's not about his skating."

• 1:01:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. That was a roller coaster.

• 1:01:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 1:01:26Georgia Hardstark?

  They have roller coasters, I heard.

• 1:01:27Karen Kilgariff?

  They have roller coasters. And the zipper, and it's right there on the street. It's just crazy, so you could, like, live here and then there's just like a fucking Ferris wheel in your front yard.

• 1:01:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you just say Ferris reel?

• 1:01:40Karen Kilgariff?

  A Ferris reel.

• 1:01:43Karen Kilgariff?

  My dentures are just kicking in right now.

• 1:01:49Karen Kilgariff?

  So Circleville is famous for the pumpkin show.

• 1:01:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:01:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I love that they call it a show and not a contest or a festival. Hey.

• 1:01:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sorry, I'm a control freak, I don't know.

• 1:01:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Get out.

• 1:02:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Get out of my slideshow.

• 1:02:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry, I'm sorry.

• 1:02:05Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it's okay.

• 1:02:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I have to control everything.

• 1:02:11Karen Kilgariff?

  What didn't you like about the pumpkin still being there?

• 1:02:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I wanted to look at it.

• 1:02:16Karen Kilgariff?

  You're trying to keep yourself from turning all the way around.

• 1:02:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't even know what you said after, okay.

• 1:02:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's just look at them one last time.

• 1:02:24Karen Kilgariff?

  How did they get them there? Where are they from?

• 1:02:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Are any of these people sponsored by like the people that grow fake foods? Oh, that's a huge accusation, Karen.

• 1:02:39Georgia Hardstark?

  What? You're talking about, what's, what is it called when they take steroids?

• 1:02:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, like, when foods take steroids?

• 1:02:46Georgia Hardstark?

  No, when people take steroids.

• 1:02:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Doping scandal?

• 1:02:50Georgia Hardstark?

  What? Juicing. Thank you.

• 1:02:55Karen Kilgariff?

  We look over and it's this woman with huge muscles in the front. I know the answer, it's called juicing. Gun show, gun show.

• 1:03:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you like that I screamed "what" into a crowd?

• 1:03:08Karen Kilgariff?

  What did you say?

• 1:03:11Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what happened last night. Last night in Cleveland. We started talking about one city that we're afraid to say because we're gonna mispronounce it, and the entire audience just immediately started yelling out names of cities they thought we couldn't pronounce. It was the weirdest thing and so fucking hilarious. We're like, first of all, we can't understand what anyone is saying.

• 1:03:32Georgia Hardstark?

  And then one girl raised her hand.

• 1:03:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Real polite.

• 1:03:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And said Kohiahoga, which was like, fuck you, I didn't say that.

• 1:03:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It was, it was chili coffee.

• 1:03:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:47Georgia Hardstark?

  What are they, who spelled that initially? The fuck, okay.

• 1:03:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I was gonna call it Chilacote.

• 1:03:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Luckily I didn't.

• 1:03:58Karen Kilgariff?

  So Circleville is famous for its pumpkins.

• 1:04:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I refuse.

• 1:04:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Look at them.

• 1:04:03Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:04:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Look at them.

• 1:04:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I refuse.

• 1:04:05Karen Kilgariff?

  They're larger than anything you've ever seen.

• 1:04:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess because I was raised, because I did 4H as a child and we would go to the fair, right? Then you go to the fair every summer, you go to the county fair, we'd live at the fair for a week.

• 1:04:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Fun.

• 1:04:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And you fucking walk around as like, well, because it was the 70s, so you'd be like a seven-year-old walking around the fair alone. Like, oh, look, a pumpkin display. I guess I'll look at this for a half an hour.

• 1:04:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Who, me, where's my mother? Uh, just not around. Okay.

• 1:04:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Back of the RV, she said, please don't bother her until dusk.

• 1:04:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Again, pumpkinshow.com for any of your pumpkin needs.

• 1:04:56Karen Kilgariff?

  So Circleville is famous for the pumpkin show, but it's also famous for one of the weirdest unsolved mysteries on the globe. I put that, I don't know if it's true.

• 1:05:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I guess you gotta decide that if it's true to you or not.

• 1:05:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I get to decide in this moment.

• 1:05:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:05:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Second only to crop circles.

• 1:05:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. Haven't solved those yet.

• 1:05:17Karen Kilgariff?

  No. It's the, okay, so, this is so amazing. So in 1977, why did I skip to this next page? And there's so much information on this one. Oh, I put, I put parentheses, Paul Winfield. "In this sleepy burg of Circleville, Ohio." "Citizens begin getting letters in the mail." They're, all the letters are written in block print. They all are from an anonymous source. There's no return address on any of them. They all have the postmark from Columbus, or most of them do later on, that changes a little bit, but,

• 1:05:56Karen Kilgariff?

  and they all contain personal information about the recipient, sometimes that only the recipient knows. So Mary Gillespie, as you remember, is a citizen, a school bus driver, a wife, a mother of two. And she receives, some places say it's the first letter, but it sounds like they all went out at the same time. And people reading these letters got so weirded out and sometimes scared, they weren't saying anything. Because basically, and I think what's to me amazing about this story is it's kind of like, it's like people using gossip as the ultimate weapon. You know what I mean? It's like all this, it's the thing that you fear, like, what do you fear most? God bless you. What do you fear?

• 1:06:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Mine is the plague. I fear that the most.

• 1:06:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, but that guy was covered, that sounds like he used his whole arm and his leg to cover. We really appreciate that, sir.

• 1:06:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you, sir.

• 1:06:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Or ma'am, if you're very sick. She could be very sick.

• 1:06:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I kept thinking about it as I was writing this up of like, what would you, if you opened a letter that said, "I know that you, blankety, blink, blink, blink." Whatever, and you're reading it in block, weird block handwriting, just starting to sweat and you just fold it up and put it away, like, okay, well, see where this goes? Like, that's what was happening in the town of Circleville, a town of 1,200 people. At the time, 11, I mean, 1,000, 11,000 people, but still, tiny, right? Everybody knows everybody's business, everybody knows each other. So it's such a like, it's such a like, live, live ammo thing that's happening.

• 1:07:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's so threatening too, it's because like, I don't just know this, I'm like letting you know, but I know.

• 1:07:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And I want to do something about it. So that's part of it. So she gets her letter and inside it says, so it's in block writing, and I have it here. It says, "Stay away from Massey. Don't lie when questioned about knowing him. I know where you live, I've been observing your house, and know you have children. This is no joke. Please take it serious." Bad grammar. "Everyone concerned has been notified and everything will be over soon."

• 1:08:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrifying.

• 1:08:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Terrifying.

• 1:08:16Karen Kilgariff?

  So scary.

• 1:08:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Scared.

• 1:08:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Tell me your worst secret right now.

• 1:08:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't have any. You know I don't have any.

• 1:08:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Really? Because here's your. Oh no, oh no, oh no. So the Massey that is being spoken of at the top of this is superintendent of schools. Massey.

• 1:08:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Renee? I don't know his first name.

• 1:08:40Georgia Hardstark?

  It's superintendent of schools. So it's a good thing he went into that business.

• 1:08:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's all one, superintendent of schools, it's an Icelandic name. Massey.

• 1:08:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I couldn't find, it's kind of, I actually, it made me kind of happy because I couldn't find pictures of Mary Gillespie, I couldn't find pictures of the superintendent of schools Massey, but I did find this.

• 1:09:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I swear to God, this is a real book cover on Amazon.

• 1:09:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 1:09:10Karen Kilgariff?

  This guy, Merle Massey, wrote a book entitled, "So You Wanna Be."

• 1:09:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Superintendent.

• 1:09:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my God.

• 1:09:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Why don't we all have books if it's this easy?

• 1:09:21Karen Kilgariff?

  We can. If you know Photoshop, you can.

• 1:09:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven, oh my God.

• 1:09:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm not saying Merle had anything to do with this, we don't know. Merle? Merle?

• 1:09:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Merle. Right?

• 1:09:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Who knows?

• 1:09:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's ask him, come on out.

• 1:09:43Karen Kilgariff?

  He's up in the balcony, red cheeks, oh shit. Not this again.

• 1:09:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Keeps sneezing into his arm.

• 1:09:52Karen Kilgariff?

  He's allergic to secrets. Okay. So of course, she's nervous about the letter, but she doesn't say anything, she just puts it away. And then she gets another one, and she's just like trying to handle it, trying to be calm. So then, the next letter that the family receives goes to her husband Ron.

• 1:10:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh fuck.

• 1:10:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's the same block lettering, same basic info, and I'm not sure if it's because it's such a small town, but in that first letter, on the envelope, it just said, "Mary Gillespie, RT Circleville, Circleville, Ohio." Sorry, Circleville, Ohio.

• 1:10:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Because you can just be like.

• 1:10:29Karen Kilgariff?

  No address, no zip code.

• 1:10:31Georgia Hardstark?

  But the mailman's like, yeah, I know who that is.

• 1:10:32Karen Kilgariff?

  We know her, yeah, she lives over there.

• 1:10:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is great for secrets. You know what I mean? So his letter's exactly the same, and he basically, and his, the first letter basically says, "Put an end to your wife's affair or die." So it's like directly threatening his life.

• 1:10:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 1:10:50Karen Kilgariff?

  So he confronts Mary, and then she shows him her letters, she says, she swears there's no affair happening.

• 1:11:00Karen Kilgariff?

  They, they, so they try to go, okay, well, something's weird happening, but let's just deal with it and go on with our lives. Then Ron gets a second letter, and it says, I'm not sure if I have this one or not. It says, "Gillespie, you've had two weeks and done nothing. Admit the truth and inform the school board. If not, I will broadcast it on CBs, on posters, signs, and billboards until the truth comes out."

• 1:11:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:11:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:11:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Steven.

• 1:11:36Karen Kilgariff?

  There are some people who thought, because of the block lettering, that he said, "I will broadcast it on CBS." But there was no way for a letter writer from Circleville, Ohio, to get this information onto the network in 1977. They were much more of a, you know, all-in-the-family type of situation. So they believed that the writer meant CBs. Okay, anyway. So Ron and Mary are fucking panicking, right? This is getting very serious. So they invite Ron's sister and her husband, Paul Freshour, to come over, and they show them the letters, and they try to make a plan. They think they know who sent the letters. And so what they decide to do is, we should, you know, the Gillespie should send a threatening

• 1:12:20Karen Kilgariff?

  letter back to that person.

• 1:12:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Oh, yeah?

• 1:12:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Pumpkin justice. Get ready for it.

• 1:12:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it seems like it works, because everything goes quiet for a couple of weeks. And then, on the night of August 19th, 1977, the phone rings at the Gillespie's house, and Ron answers, and he gets into a fight with someone on the phone. So Mary doesn't know exactly what happened, because she didn't hear anything exactly, but he basically slammed down the phone and rushed out of the house, grabbed his handgun on the way, got into his truck, and raced off, and almost immediately, like moments away from their house, ran into a tree and was killed. Yeah. So when the sheriff inspects the scene, they find the handgun that he brought with him.

• 1:13:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And some articles, they argue this point, but some say that between the house and the car accident that was moments later, the handgun was fired once. But there were, nobody heard the gunshots. There was no proof that the bullet landed anywhere that anyone could find. And there are some articles that say there's no way to prove that that handgun didn't get fired sometime before. But at first, that's what they thought. So the sheriff inspects the scene, and he declares that it is, that foul play is probably involved, from what they're looking at. But then he, the sheriff suddenly changes his stance and says that Ron's blood alcohol level was twice the legal limit, .16. Therefore, it was an accidental death.

• 1:13:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Basically, he caused himself. But the family and friends of Ron Gillespie are just like, "He didn't drink. He was not a big drinker."

• 1:14:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, really?

• 1:14:05Karen Kilgariff?

  "And he wasn't drunk." Like, the kids are saying they remember him leaving the house. He was not drunk. So that him having a really hot, really high blood alcohol level makes absolutely no sense at all. But that's what the official report is, and so therefore, the case is closed. It's an accidental death. Move on. So now, the Circleville writer does not like, letter writer doesn't like this. And so a bunch of letters get sent out, saying that this, the sheriff, accusing the sheriff of a cover-up, saying, "Don't allow this to happen," and basically saying, "Don't fall for this. This is a cover-up." And Mary continues to get letters threatening her about the affair until she finally breaks

• 1:14:48Karen Kilgariff?

  down and admits that, yes, she actually was having an affair with the superintendent of schools. But she says that the affair started after the letters came.

• 1:14:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-huh.

• 1:15:02Karen Kilgariff?

  "Honey."

• 1:15:05Georgia Hardstark?

  It just, she just, it threw her into his arms.

• 1:15:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:09Georgia Hardstark?

  She was so upset about it.

• 1:15:10Karen Kilgariff?

  "The stress of being accused of this insane thing made me do it. It made me go from being totally innocent of that thing to actually just doing the thing. You know how letters are. Ugh. Making you do shit." But she was in this horrible position, right? Because it's this tiny town. Everyone's already talking shit about her, because she's the woman who's having the affair, and that's what all the, everybody knows what's in that letter at this point. Then her husband is killed in this very suspicious car accident. Suddenly, he's a drunk. He was drunk driving. Like, she is, you know, in the eye of the storm here. So I'm sure she was just trying to, like, make her life make sense a little bit, and be like, "Fine." But I mean, she's, you know, it would have been a horrible position. But she goes back to work. She's driving the bus again.

• 1:15:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And one day in 1983, and the letters keep coming. The letters don't stop. To her and people all around the area, the region. So one day, as she's driving her school bus route, signs start popping up along the street. And one of them, this is the Steven, this is Steven's pull from the Unsolved Mysteries episode that, I don't know if you can see it.

• 1:16:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Tracy Gillespie sucks.

• 1:16:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Tracy Gillespie sucks.

• 1:16:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Whoa. Oh. It was Bart Simpson.

• 1:16:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, in all the things that I read, the sign that was put up was very threatening about Tracy. Some say lewd, some say threatening. Tracy Gillespie sucks is not that big of a deal. So I think that the producers were like, "Let's not write anything bad about Tracy Gillespie anymore." So they, this was their, this is their way of, of sugarcoating it. Because I would laugh my ass off if I drove by a sign that said, "Amazing." I would have loved my name on a sign in any way.

• 1:17:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen Kilgariff sucks.

• 1:17:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah! They're talking about me!

• 1:17:10Karen Kilgariff?

  But of course, Mary sees this. It's like her family, once again, in, you know, getting in the limelight. She pulls the school bus over. She walks over, and she starts ripping down the sign.

• 1:17:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, girl, can you imagine?

• 1:17:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, as she's ripping down the sign, she sees there's a string attached to the sign, and she follows the string back behind a couple of leaves. No, she does. You can say no all you want, it's still happening.

• 1:17:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And hidden is, there's this box. She fucking yanks the box down.

• 1:17:41Georgia Hardstark?

  What is this, Goonies?

• 1:17:43Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 1:17:43Georgia Hardstark?

  What is this, Goonies?

• 1:17:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And inside, there's treasure.

• 1:17:47Georgia Hardstark?

  There's a booby trap.

• 1:17:47Karen Kilgariff?

  The end. It is a booby trap. She pulls the box down. She takes it home.

• 1:17:55Karen Kilgariff?

  In the Unsolved Mysteries thing, they made it her, they showed that she did it right there on the school bus, which she, in truth, did not do. She drove home with it. And at this point, the police had already shown her how to deal with evidence, and how to, like, you know, treat it and touch it and bring it to them. And she was just like, "What the fuck is this box?"

• 1:18:15Georgia Hardstark?

  "Let me put my fingerprints all over this."

• 1:18:17Karen Kilgariff?

  "Damn it." So she gets home, opens the box, there's a gun pointing at her. So this was a booby trap. When she went to pull the sign down, she was supposed to yank it in a way that you would just shoot her as she was standing there. But it didn't, the gun didn't go off. So she gives all of it to the cops, and the serial number on the gun is rubbed off. But they're like, "We can, our people can look at this and figure out what the serial number is." Mary's like, "Great." I don't know if that happened.

• 1:18:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I lost my place on the page.

• 1:18:51Karen Kilgariff?

  So basically, when they get the results back, everyone's shocked, because the gun belongs to her brother-in-law, Paul Freshour.

• 1:19:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, when I say "Freshour," you're gonna think of soap. You're gonna think of...

• 1:19:10Karen Kilgariff?

  But actually...

• 1:19:15Karen Kilgariff?

  He is, he's a man who has an airtight alibi about the day that this booby-trapped sign went up. But it was his gun, and he said it went missing long ago. He hadn't known about it, hadn't seen it in a really long time.

• 1:19:31Georgia Hardstark?

  The old missing gun fucking thing.

• 1:19:33Karen Kilgariff?

  You know that thing where you buy a gun, and then it just slips your mind?

• 1:19:37Georgia Hardstark?

  And it goes missing. But you don't report it.

• 1:19:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. I think I threw it under my pillow.

• 1:19:45Karen Kilgariff?

  So, so what the police do is, this sweet-ass, early 80s police work, they have, and they say, "Can you copy this letter? Can you write the way this, the Circleville letter writer writes?" And he's like, "Well, I can sure give it a shot, officer." And fucking copies out one of the letter samples that they have there. And then...

• 1:20:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Why would you do that?

• 1:20:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Why would you do that?

• 1:20:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, okay.

• 1:20:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Because you're just like, "Okay." Like, because he, he basically went in and was like, "I've got an airtight alibi, and I didn't do it, so I'm here to tell you what you need to know." He does the thing. They're like, "Well, this is amazing, because you've got the same penmanship as the Circleville letter writer, so you're under arrest."

• 1:20:28Georgia Hardstark?

  But they told him to copy it. Oh, God, this table's gonna fucking break. They told him to copy it, though.

• 1:20:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, but...

• 1:20:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe he's a really good copier.

• 1:20:35Karen Kilgariff?

  He's a really good copier of the most insane block letters in the world. Let's see, by, you know, but I mean, oh, wait, sorry. This is one of the only letters that, where the writing looks like this, which is super nuts. And there are some theories that there's more... Do you want to be a superintendent?

• 1:20:56Georgia Hardstark?

  How many people in here have already Amazon'd "Bought This Book"?

• 1:21:00Karen Kilgariff?

  People are just like, way down low. "I've gotta get it before it sells out."

• 1:21:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I've always wanted to be a, "Follow your dreams, guys."

• 1:21:07Karen Kilgariff?

  "Follow your dreams right now."

• 1:21:10Georgia Hardstark?

  "Oh, Freshour, my gun disappeared."

• 1:21:16Georgia Hardstark?

  "Maybe it's in my mustache."

• 1:21:20Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Stephen when he lets himself go at age 60. Sorry, Stephen, I'm sorry. You're gonna be so mad.

• 1:21:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Stephen. Here's the... Okay.

• 1:21:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God.

• 1:21:34Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really what most of them look like.

• 1:21:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:21:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Freezy ass Zodiac-style block letters.

• 1:21:39Georgia Hardstark?

  These sickos will pay.

• 1:21:41Karen Kilgariff?

  But also... Oh, don't read that one. But, um... We'll go back a little bit. Should we go back to pumpkins?

• 1:21:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Where are we going?

• 1:21:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Just go to pumpkins.

• 1:21:50Karen Kilgariff?

  But I just wanted you to see where it's basically a lot of people think the way it's written, it's somebody trying to cover up so nobody recognizes their handwriting, obviously. Okay, so, uh, on October 24th, 1983, Paul Freshour stands trial and in court, a handwriting expert testifies that the handwriting in Paul's station house copied letter matches the handwriting in all the Circleville letters, and he is found guilty of attempted murder, and the judge hands down the maximum sentence of seven to 25 years for attempted murder. I wouldn't clap.

• 1:22:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Because even while Paul Freshour is in prison, the letters keep coming.

• 1:22:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And they're sent to people, they're sent to hundreds of people, they're sent to, um... Sometimes they contain lewd pictures, sometimes they're very directly threatening, really angry, really mean, um, and sometimes they're typed even, um, and... What? Hmm. Oh.

• 1:22:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry.

• 1:22:57Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 1:23:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And so the prison authorities can't figure out, since they think Paul Freshour is the Circleville letter writer, they're like, every time he has a visitor, they strip-search him before he goes into the room, and then after he comes out, they never find anything. And, uh, and also, they don't understand how he's getting, it's, they're still almost always postmarked from Columbus, but the prison he's in was in a different city, so he'd be having, he'd have to be giving them to somebody who would take them to Columbus to send them.

• 1:23:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Also, the typewriting thing. Can't imagine there's a ton of typewriters in prison.

• 1:23:29Karen Kilgariff?

  He's got one hidden behind a poster of a 40s actress.

• 1:23:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so then he receives, Paul receives his own Circleville letter writer letter in jail. And it says, all caps, "Now, when are you going to believe you aren't going to get out of there? I told you two years ago, when we set 'em up, they stay set up. Don't you listen at all?"

• 1:23:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't buy it.

• 1:23:57Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't?

• 1:23:59Georgia Hardstark?

  From what I remember that night, I didn't buy it then either.

• 1:24:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Paul Freshour ends up serving 10 years in prison for attempted murder. He's released on May, in May of 1994. Oh, we can take a look at his face. Stephen!

• 1:24:18Karen Kilgariff?

  And by then, uh, reports of threatening letters have basically stopped in Circleville, and Paul maintains his innocence until his death in 2012. So, uh, six months after his release from prison, Unsolved Mysteries, hosted by Dennis Farina, the new ones, they decide to do a story on the Circleville letter writer, um, and then a couple of days after it airs, they get a letter from the Circleville letter writer. "That's right, it's this one, and it says..."

• 1:24:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:24:50Karen Kilgariff?

  "...forget Circleville, Ohio. If you come to Ohio, you ill sickos will pay." Signed, the Circleville letter writer.

• 1:25:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Was this when he was, when Freshour was dead already?

• 1:25:04Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:25:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:25:05Karen Kilgariff?

  This was in 1994 or '05, essentially. What I like and what I find interesting is that the Circleville letter writer uses colons for periods. And in my mind, I picture them in doing this crazy rage writing, and at the end of every sentence, they're like, "That and done!"

• 1:25:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, one period isn't enough for the Circleville letter writer?

• 1:25:30Georgia Hardstark?

  No, yeah.

• 1:25:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Done!

• 1:25:34Georgia Hardstark?

  You just have to find the person who screams the last word of every sentence.

• 1:25:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:25:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you found him.

• 1:25:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right. Who was that loud lady at the grocery store? And what's awesome is the introduction Dennis Farina does at the beginning of that episode of Unsolved Mysteries, he's like, "We got our own letter too, but we're not gonna be scared off of Circleville."

• 1:25:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:25:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, loving him, loving him actively.

• 1:26:00Karen Kilgariff?

  So, at the end of that episode, Paul Freshour actually says that he just wants justice for his family, even though the Gillespies aren't his family anymore, they'd been divorced and, and he'd been remarried, he has his own new family, he still wants them to reopen the case of Ron Gillespie's car accident, and he wants to find out what really happened, which is a really beautiful thing at the end of that. It's not like he's all bitter and pissed, or, or he's, if he is, he saved it. He saved it for off-camera. So, over roughly a 20-year span, the Circleville letter writer wrote and sent over 1,000 letters to the people in and around Circleville.

• 1:26:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus, get a hobby. Well, I guess that is a hobby.

• 1:26:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:42Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a lot of stamp money, though.

• 1:26:45Karen Kilgariff?

  What's interesting is the penmanship never improves.

• 1:26:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so the epilogue to this, which I think is fascinating, so, local journalist Martin Ant, who reported on this the whole time, he, uh, went and looked into the case, he went and looked in the sheriff's files, um, and found that there was evidence there that was never introduced in court, and it's this story that, um, the other bus driver who had the shift, I guess, before Mary's on that school bus route, told her that she had driven the route 20 minutes before Mary had when she saw the sign about Tracy Gillespie said.

• 1:27:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And the sign, when she drove that, by that same spot, there was no sign, but there was a large sandy-haired man who had a orangish-yellow El Camino, who, when the bus went by, he turned away and pretended to be peeing, and she thinks so that they couldn't identify him. And, um, Martin Ant says that if the sheriff had looked into that, if they had had followed up, they would have found out that one of their possible suspects in the case had a brother who had a yellowish-orange El Camino.

• 1:28:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit, and loved to pee in bushes.

• 1:28:05Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. And so that is the as-yet unsolved case of the Circleville letter writer.

• 1:28:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:28:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Crazy. Thank you for, that was amazing.

• 1:28:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no!

• 1:28:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no!

• 1:28:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, sorry. Look at that gorgeous tent!

• 1:28:27Georgia Hardstark?

  What did you press?

• 1:28:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry.

• 1:28:29Georgia Hardstark?

  What did you hit?

• 1:28:29Karen Kilgariff?

  The tech guy's pissed. He's like, "Look, I went to see the Aurora Gorialis."

• 1:28:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:28:33Karen Kilgariff?

  "It's none of your business."

• 1:28:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, the show's over, I guess.

• 1:28:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit. We blew up the projector.

• 1:28:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 1:28:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Damn.

• 1:28:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:28:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back. Karen, do you have any updates?

• 1:28:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, here's an interesting update. The TV show 48 Hours reexamined this case in 2021, and a forensic document expert now believes that Paul Freshour was the Circleville letter writer, although there are experts and people close to the case who question that conclusion. No one's ever been charged with writing these letters, and CBS reports that the Pickaway County Sheriff's Office considers this case closed. You can watch that episode of 48 Hours on CBS.com or Paramount Plus, but if you want to know the kind of the details and why they think that, you can, uh, go watch that episode.

• 1:29:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Or you can watch my episode of Drunk History, AKA Drunk Mystery of the Circleville Letters, remember?

• 1:29:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I forgot that. Go watch Georgia tell this story.

• 1:29:37Georgia Hardstark?

  The Drunk Mystery episode, so it's Drunk, it's Drunk History, season five, episode seven, and I had done it before you did this story, and I didn't realize till halfway through the story that I had, I was so drunk that night that I did the Drunk History that I didn't remember what story I told.

• 1:29:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:29:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Which I think is like a good example of what that show is like.

• 1:29:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, you really do get blackout drunk and have to be guided through.

• 1:30:02Georgia Hardstark?

  You do.

• 1:30:03Karen Kilgariff?

  It's hilarious.

• 1:30:03Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a good episode. The girl who plays the main character is Vanessa Bayer, who I see at parties sometimes, and I try to like make her be my best friend, because like she had my voice, you know, she did my voice, we were in the episode together in my mind, and she's like,

• 1:30:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:30:15Georgia Hardstark?

  "Uh-huh, get away from me. You're scaring me," essentially.

• 1:30:18Karen Kilgariff?

  There's that girl again.

• 1:30:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:30:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that's amazing. Also, I think the other update is just, I do believe that the pumpkin festival is still going strong.

• 1:30:27Georgia Hardstark?

  We still have to go.

• 1:30:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I spent so much time talking about that legendary thing.

• 1:30:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's sad that we haven't gone yet.

• 1:30:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so now we're gonna go back to the live show and listen to the hometown that Georgia picked that night.

• 1:30:44Karen Kilgariff?

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:30:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Please help us! They're everywhere! We think they're murder wantons.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 1:30:56Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:30:58Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:31:00Speaker 03

  Melonson swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  Ryan Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu. Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today to help find a home that fits where you are in life.

• 1:31:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 1:31:39Speaker 06

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• 1:32:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I think we have time.

• 1:32:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, we have time for a hometown murder.

• 1:32:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Before you, no pointing yet, no pointing yet.

• 1:32:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, save it.

• 1:32:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen has to tell you some stuff.

• 1:32:23Karen Kilgariff?

  This is important. These rules, these are for you.

• 1:32:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And us.

• 1:32:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And us mostly.

• 1:32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Mostly us.

• 1:32:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, you know the ones like you can't read it and you can't be so drunk you can't tell it. And it needs to be local. We don't want to hear about shit that happened in Tennessee.

• 1:32:41Georgia Hardstark?

  To Ohio would be great.

• 1:32:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, yeah, yeah, statewide. And...

• 1:32:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone hates you.

• 1:32:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, you have to remember that if you get picked, everyone else in the room hates you. So don't fuckin', that's not the time to shout out all your cousins and stuff. Like, just get up here and tell your story like you are on a clock because you are. Ready, go!

• 1:33:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'm picking, I'm picking, I'm picking, picking. Can we get the lights up a little bit?

• 1:33:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa, hi!

• 1:33:06Georgia Hardstark?

  She looks mad at you.

• 1:33:09Georgia Hardstark?

  You here in the leather, yeah, or whatever that jacket is, yes. Go this way to Vince. All right.

• 1:33:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't be mad at her. Okay, you can turn the lights down.

• 1:33:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, turn those lights down, please.

• 1:33:23Georgia Hardstark?

  She'll freak out.

• 1:33:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Bye, bye.

• 1:33:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi!

• 1:33:25Karen Kilgariff?

  My god.

• 1:33:26Georgia Hardstark?

  What's your name?

• 1:33:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi, my name's Lauren.

• 1:33:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi, come over here, Lauren. Hi, fancy pants.

• 1:33:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh, you do have fancy pants. Can I say that I bought this bow tie specifically for the show?

• 1:33:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, because it's from The Shining!

• 1:33:42Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm glad you recognized it.

• 1:33:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I tell you a secret?

• 1:33:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:33:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Or it's not, it's an open secret, but this is the pattern on the back of my album cover.

• 1:33:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's right!

• 1:33:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi, high five, everybody. Sorry, that was about me.

• 1:33:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Where are you from? I'm from Cincinnati, born and raised.

• 1:34:01Georgia Hardstark?

  They love Cincinnati. But now living here in Columbus.

• 1:34:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:34:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:34:06Georgia Hardstark?

  A little for everyone.

• 1:34:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 1:34:09Georgia Hardstark?

  What's your hometown? Okay, so this is the story of my biological father being the prime suspect in the murder of his best friend in college. Okay. And just for a little bit of side note, this was like two years after I was born, so life shit one right after the other happened. But, okay, so this was like 96, 97, happened at Capital University.

• 1:34:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Go, go accused!

• 1:34:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, okay. So my bio dad, his best friend was Tony, who was the only other man in the art therapy department at the time. So obviously, they're gonna have to bond together because they're the only two men in that department.

• 1:34:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so he was the last person to see him alive. And so like he's dropping him off at his apartment at like 1:00 in the morning because you do weird shit at like 1:00 in the morning. I think you said they were getting haircuts or whatever.

• 1:35:09Karen Kilgariff?

  You know.

• 1:35:11Georgia Hardstark?

  So...

• 1:35:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Late night supercuts?

• 1:35:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Who the fuck knows?

• 1:35:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Who the fuck knows is right.

• 1:35:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Anyway, so he drops him off and then his best friend is preceded to be carjacked and like forced to empty out his entire ATM by a group of three minors, by the way, who apparently each had a rap sheet, like a whole page long each.

• 1:35:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Anyway, so then they like shoot him execution style in the back of the head. And then find his car three days later on like Cleveland Avenue, which honestly is no surprise, it's like a sketchy area.

• 1:35:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:35:51Karen Kilgariff?

  You guys hate Cleveland Avenue.

• 1:35:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And not anywhere near Capital University at all, so.

• 1:35:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:35:56Georgia Hardstark?

  But like, so while they're investigating this, my bio dad is put through all this bullshit. So like when they come to question him, they take him out of his ceramics class. And if you work with ceramics, you know that you're gonna wear the like worst clothing possible. So they put him in handcuffs and put him in the back of the squad car and take him to like the, like to interview him and whatever. And so like, he's looking hella guilty and like they fingerprint him in everything.

• 1:36:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Overalls. And that day, they were working with red clay, which is very unfortunate.

• 1:36:31Georgia Hardstark?

  But so like, they don't let him wash his hands and like drop him back off at class. And so like his, like his next class, the teacher asks him to hand out all the graded tests. So each one has like a, just a little thing, thumbprint on like the corner. And like, so now he's looking hella guilty. And like, at one point, he's like rounding a corner and he hears the like, uh, principal of like the college or whatever talking shit about him. And like, it's bad because like he's also like the son of a Lutheran minister and this is a Jesuit college.

• 1:37:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, perfect revenge.

• 1:37:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, exactly. But like, he clearly didn't do it, is what I'm saying. And like...

• 1:37:10Karen Kilgariff?

  He clearly didn't do it, is what you're saying. That's what you just said.

• 1:37:15Georgia Hardstark?

  But like, I'm pretty sure the kids that did it are now out of prison because they were minors at the time that they did it.

• 1:37:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you know how young?

• 1:37:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know, teenagers for sure. Shit, wow. How did they get caught? I think they just followed the evidence.

• 1:37:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't get it. Damn. Shit.

• 1:37:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Can I end on a joke? It's a really quick one.

• 1:37:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course.

• 1:37:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, this is kind of an awful joke, you're gonna feel slightly bad for it. Okay, um, so why do they not tell jokes about the Reverend Jim Jones? Why? Because the punchline is too long.

• 1:37:52Karen Kilgariff?

  My god!

• 1:37:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Girl.

• 1:37:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Great job.

• 1:37:58Karen Kilgariff?

  You earned that thing.

• 1:37:59Georgia Hardstark?

  You fucking earned it.

• 1:38:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Great job! Great job! There's Vince. Amazing.

• 1:38:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, that's how you do a fucking hometown egg.

• 1:38:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And then just end with a, just a touch of light humor. Beautiful.

• 1:38:18Georgia Hardstark?

  A joke that we would get hate mail for, but was adorable when she did it.

• 1:38:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right, you do it.

• 1:38:23Georgia Hardstark?

  So we appreciate that, because I want nothing more than to say that joke every day of my life.

• 1:38:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we're back. Are there any updates on this hometown that you know, Georgia?

• 1:38:36Georgia Hardstark?

  No updates on the hometown, but I did chuckle just a little bit at that really inappropriate joke at the end, all these years later, so.

• 1:38:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It was, I think it was funny and I really liked that she threw it out there to be like, hey.

• 1:38:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and on a joke.

• 1:38:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Levity.

• 1:38:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Good for you, Lauren, you made us laugh then and you made us laugh now.

• 1:38:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Lauren, way to be a part of things.

• 1:38:58Karen Kilgariff?

  So, uh, this episode was originally entitled "Live at the Palace Theater in Columbus, Ohio." We have many choices for new titles for this episode.

• 1:39:09Georgia Hardstark?

  That first one is my favorite.

• 1:39:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome to poodle time. Come on!

• 1:39:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course, molded seafood salad is a very important title for us.

• 1:39:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Very good, or tuna tempeh, which was your favorite recipe.

• 1:39:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, get out of my slideshow.

• 1:39:25Karen Kilgariff?

  So you want to be a superintendent.

• 1:39:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Or a touch of light humor. Those are all great options.

• 1:39:30Karen Kilgariff?

  So many good ones. Well, that's this week's episode of Rewind.

• 1:39:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks for listening. Let's go back to Columbus, Ohio onstage to say goodbye.

• 1:39:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Columbus, this has been an amazing show.

• 1:39:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you!

• 1:39:46Karen Kilgariff?

  How fun!

• 1:39:48Georgia Hardstark?

  We, we've had so much fun in Ohio. You guys have been so open and kind and wonderful to us and we really appreciate it. We're so happy to be here. We'll definitely be back.

• 1:40:03Karen Kilgariff?

  We, we do say this all the time, but like, the whole, all the credit we're getting is the work you guys are doing. So like, you are becoming all friends with each other, you all are hanging out and having a great time and supporting each other. It's just this insane, amazing community that's growing up out of Georgia and I bullshitting on her couch. It's so, it's such an honor to be a part of this with you. We cannot tell you how much fun we're having and how awesome it is. Thank you so, so much, honestly.

• 1:40:34Georgia Hardstark?

  We're so lucky.

• 1:40:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And so finally, to wrap up, please stay sexy.

• 1:40:42Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't!

• 1:40:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Bye, you guys, thank you. Thank you.

• 1:40:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:40:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:40:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:41:06Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wise Crack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet and greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:41:22Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:41:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. Goodbye. Okay, laundry stinks, literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear, not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real-life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote "right way," Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold.

• 1:42:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast, the true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest.

• 1:42:18Speaker 01

  Ooh, I scammed them.

• 1:42:19Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 1:42:20Speaker 01

  I could talk to you for an hour.

• 1:42:21Georgia Hardstark?

  You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.