How to Build Something Meaningful From Your Worst Chapter (Sarah Jakes Roberts)

Sarah Jakes Roberts is not a traditional entrepreneur. She’s the daughter of Bishop T. D. Jakes, one of the most prominent pastors in America. Sarah became a mother at 13—and in the years that followed, she carried the weight of that story in public, under a spotlight she never asked for. This conversation is about what happens when the thing you’re most ashamed of becomes the thing you build from. Today, Sarah co-leads a megachurch while raising a blended family of six. But she didn’t set out to lead a global movement, launch conferences that fill stadiums, host a top-ranked podcast, operate more than a dozen revenue streams, or become a bestselling author. She started a blog because she had something to say and an instinct that other women might see parts of themselves in her story. It turned out to be millions of women. In today’s conversation, Sarah sits down with Emma to talk about calling, responsibility, and a feeling she describes as being “willing to do what I’ve been trusted with.” Sarah shares: The relationship between anger and people-pleasing—and why suppressing one feeds the other What Old Thoughts look like when you've been carrying them since you were 13 How she went from a blog with a million views to a global conference and a publishing operation without a traditional business strategy What young motherhood taught her about shame and building something real from the chapter most people would want to erase Where ministry ends and business begins—and how she navigates making millions from a unique calling without losing what built it What’s something in your life that you need to move past? Drop it in the comments — we're reading. And subscribe to Aspire with Emma Grede so you don't miss what's next.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  So today's episode is for anyone who's ever hit rock bottom and wondered if there was actually something on the other side of that, whether it's a mistake that you can't get past, or you're in the middle of your worst chapter. It's a reframing of what to do with what's happened to you and how to use it to your advantage as you move forward. Sarah Jakes Roberts is a mother of six. She's a leader within a mega church, a bestselling author, and the force behind a truly global brand. She's also living proof of what success looks like when you embrace what life serves up for you and you move forward anyway.

• 0:52Emma Grede?

  Sarah, I am so happy to have you here today.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  I'm so excited. Thank you for having me.

• 0:57Emma Grede?

  Now, welcome to Aspire. I tell you, I have been thinking about this conversation since you and I had the opportunity to sit down and you gave me the most beautiful introduction to my own book press. You were the first person to interview me about my own book and it was so satisfying to know, A, that somebody had really read it, because you had really read it. You had really read it, girl, but also the amazing feedback that you gave me. And one of the key things that I talk about in that book is that in order for you to have meaningful success, you have to take radical responsibility for your life. And when I think about you and what your life and your career has really embodied, it's exactly that, taking responsibility for yourself.

• 1:41Emma Grede?

  You have had such an amazing, it's like a movie. When I read your life, you know, it's like you became a mother as a teenager. You then went out and started, you know, discovering the world and doing everything that you did. You dropped out of college, you were waitressing as a teenager, and it feels to me like there was this kind of moment, this opportunity that you had to truly start with yourself. And you began writing about your pain. You've kind of built this platform. And now I look at you, you're running a global empire. You're doing so much and you're also leading a megachurch. And I guess my question to you from the beginning has to be like, I wonder if as you were going through

• 2:23Emma Grede?

  all of that stuff, all of that tumultuous time, if you could see and if you understood that there was something bigger on the other side.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  I don't know if I thought that there was something bigger on the other side as much as I felt like I could be bigger than the moment I was standing in. I am not one of those people who looked at their lives and like, one day I'm going to speak to millions of people. I'm going to write books. I've always just kind of taken whatever the next available step was in front of me. And I was walking out of the CPS office, which is Child Protective Services, which is a long story that I will say for another time. But I just thought one thing to myself and it was, I can do better than this. I can do better than this. And that has been my mentality that I'm always kind of chasing what does better look like from here.

• 3:06Emma Grede?

  So what did you think you would do as a kid? You must have had like hopes and dreams and you know, why I was dreaming of being a fashion designer. What was it for you?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Not to be a pastor.

• 3:17Emma Grede?

  I was literally about to say, did you imagine you were following your father's footsteps?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  I looked at that, I was like, we're going the opposite direction. I think at one point I wanted to be a doctor. After I had my son, I just wanted stability. And by the time I dropped out of school, I felt, well, at first I was going to go and be an accountant. But then there was this one math class I couldn't pass. And I was like, well, then I just need stability. I have a child to take care of. And I thought if I could become an administrative assistant, I could support someone else's work and I could have stability for my son, maybe room for some growth. And I was, that's literally all I wanted to be.

• 3:50Emma Grede?

  So you never thought, I'm going to be, you know, leading thirty thousand people every weekend?

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 3:55Emma Grede?

  No?

• 3:56Speaker 01

  No. And now that I still have to like invite my previous versions of myself into this moment to realize like, this is the moment that I'm living in. Oprah said once that she's living God's dream for her life. And I feel like that's very much so my reality is that I'm living out a dream that I could have never had for myself.

• 4:14Emma Grede?

  What was the decision for you that you weren't going to let like hard moments in your life to bind your future?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  I had to let them define my present first. I think that sounds easy, like I'm not gonna let these hard moments define me for the rest of my life. And sometimes that's an instant click for people, but then there are people like me who live in the result of letting those hard decisions define them, where they come to a place where they're like, I don't like the results. I did not like who I was when I looked in the mirror. I just didn't. I just didn't like her. It started, of course, when I was a pregnant teenager and I was so ashamed of myself. I'd look in the mirror and I would think the worst thoughts about myself. And then as my choices continued to reflect that poor self-belief, I just didn't like who I was and I became curious about whether or not there was any way that I could love myself.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  And I started like just taking little pieces of myself that I like, well, I like this about me and I like that about me. And that was the journey of me falling in love with myself. And from that place, I began to fall in love with the world around me and other people and experiences and opportunities and things began to change.

• 5:21Emma Grede?

  How did you decide to start speaking and thinking about yourself and your own identity differently?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Now, this is where me growing up in a faith household, I think, really began to take form for me. It's because they kept talking about faith and God and, you know, he loves you and all this stuff and I just didn't believe it. I just, it couldn't be possible. How could God love me and not love myself? And the people who I trusted have turned their back on me and friends don't believe in me anymore. And so I, I think by faith began to say like, if God is real, if this is possible, I want to imagine what kind of life I could have if I really believed these things. And it was me living out that life that I began to, to see a shift and a change take place within me. But I think a lot of people were disappointed in me when I got pregnant. I think they were like, you could

• 6:10Speaker 01

  maybe possibly recover if you don't make any more poor choices. But then I kept making poor choices. So then I was like, we might as well have fun while we're making poor choices. And so I had to make some subtle changes before I saw a sudden shift.

• 6:22Emma Grede?

  I mean, what's so interesting to me is while all of this is going on, it's against the background of you being a mother, right? And then you get married at nineteen years of age and you start to put out all of what's happening to you. You start blogging, basically, because it was blogging back then, right? You weren't an influencer, you were blogging. And I wonder what made you actually decide to put what was happening in your life and all of that mess like out on the internet?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  It was just stuck inside of me. Like, I started liking the fact that I was angry. I think it's because I wasn't feeling anything at all. That to even feel anger made me feel alive. It made me feel like a person. Unless you've been there, it's really hard to understand for someone. But yeah, it just, it made me feel alive to feel angry. And I felt like, okay, this probably isn't healthy. And I was in my first marriage and we were going through a terrible situation, which there was an alleged pregnancy by someone else. And I started, I started really having some unhealthy thoughts. I knew, Emma, I knew I was headed to prison because, listen, like, I preach now and I get dressed up and I may not give

• 7:26Speaker 01

  what I was ready to give back then. But I was ready to give jail time. I just was. And I was like, okay, I gotta make.

• 7:32Emma Grede?

  Because you were that angry.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  I was so upset. But, but I had to realize, like, I was upset with him, but more than anyone, I was upset with myself. And I felt like what I wanted was someone to channel that anger towards. And he gave me a reason to channel that anger towards him and her or anyone. And I got to a place where I had to let it out. So I was writing. It was really just for me because I wanted to get it out of me. Then I realized I would like close the blog with like, you know, if I were someone's friend, what would I say to someone in this situation? And it, what was a conversation between me and maybe the highest version of myself became this conversation that I started having with thousands and then millions of women who were in similar situations.

• 8:13Emma Grede?

  I want to just double down on the anger piece for a second because it's an emotion that throughout my life, I've always been very attuned to my anger, shall we say. There was a time when I think I was really led by that emotion. And as I've got older, I've been able to train myself and understand it a lot more and channel it. I wonder. If there is any part of the anger that serves you now, like, do you find any channel or any use for it in your in your work and your life now?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  That's a great question. I think so. I think I get angry now at systems of oppression. I get angry.

• 8:48Emma Grede?

  And that fuels you.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  It does. It makes me want to dismantle them. But at the time, I couldn't channel it that way. But I think also just women in general are not allowed to be angry. And because we were not allowed to be angry, I thought I had to suppress it, suppress it, suppress it. And so there would be these moments of explosion that seemed like it was just about that one thing in front of me, but it wasn't. It was about all of the other things that I had to stuff down.

• 9:11Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I I really can resonate with that. I actually think that for a lot of women, the reframing of anger is a very, very useful tool because it can be one of those emotions that really allows you to get stuff done.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  People talk about being people pleasers all the time. And I'm thinking, are we people pleasers or are we manipulating people into believing that it's easy to love us and that we won't cause any issues and we're just so easy to get along with when in reality, there are things that offend us. There are things that upset us. But because I feel like I'm not allowed to tell you because I want to be nice and I want to be sweet, I often end up building relationships that don't have the roots to really withstand what it means to be in relationship with my authenticity.

• 9:49Emma Grede?

  Honestly, when I think about my book and how much time I spent around this idea of people pleasing and anger and how actually one leads to the other, because when you're constantly running your agenda on what you think is going to please other people, you get way off track and way off course. Sarah, what was so unbelievable is that your blog went from zero to a million viewers in less than three months.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:12Emma Grede?

  Can you take me back to that moment? Because when I look at you and look at the platform that you had now, that must have been like an early signal that you were like, one second, I have something, I have something, not not my family, not where I come from. This is like, this is me. I'm putting my information out there. And it's really resonating.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  It was crazy, especially like my father has a famous last name, but I wasn't writing under my maiden name. I was still married at the time. And so I think it really spoke to the fact that I was telling this story that other women could resonate with. And as much as it was assigned to me that I had something, because listen, I grew up in church where like if you can't sing, you can't dance, you can't pray, then like you don't have any talents. And so I didn't know that writing could be a gift.

• 10:53Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  But I realized that being able to put into words what other people are feeling is a gift. And so I thought, okay, so this is a blog and people are in search of words and meaning that felt um nice, but also scary. I'm naturally introverted. And so this idea of like, wait a minute, guys, this is my diary and now you guys are all watching. I think I felt like a sense of responsibility and a sense of maybe urgency to get to a place of healing and not just unpacking and unloading without leading people somewhere.

• 11:22Emma Grede?

  You know, when I look at the sort of broadness of your work, from what you do in the church, to what you do with your women's conference, to these unbelievably successful books that you've had. And so I wonder what you're hearing from women now. Like, what has changed from when you first started to where you are now? And do you hear the same things?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Sometimes I hear echoes of the same thing. I I feel like the universal thread between all of those different types of women is that some of us in some way are trying to figure out what happened to us and how it's showing up in our present. And that's for the woman in the boardroom and that's for the little girl in a detention center. What happened to me and how is it showing up in the choices that I make now? And so I still see that thread in many of the things that I do. But what I feel exists now that didn't exist when I first started is that I do believe that women feel more empowered to lay hold of possibilities that perhaps didn't exist a few years ago. I think with the rise of social media and technology, that possibilities are more at our fingertips than before.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  And I believe that seeing other women because of social media who maybe have similar backgrounds and backdrops have given people who are in limiting circumstances or who are wondering what their pathways can look like, it's given them hope and possibility that there's a path for girls like me and women like me to have children and have the business or to go from a place of being in incarceration to starting a business. Like, I feel like the possibilities are more exposed and I believe that that's given women a lot of hope.

• 12:52Emma Grede?

  Wonder if there's something, you know, you and I spoke about this a little bit when we first met. And because my book is kind of largely structured around this idea of thoughts that exist, these kind of old thoughts that you keep with you. And there being this other idea of what is possible and how you should think now. Do you think that you were plagued by old thoughts and things that had happened to you when you were younger? And that they show up in your life and your business now?

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Oh, um, yes, girl. Wait, we want to.

• 13:23Emma Grede?

  Let's do it.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Emma, please, please, can we take a minute?

• 13:28Emma Grede?

  It's only question five, babe.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  For sure. Okay, so I think to properly frame this, though I am thirty seven now, to go back to that age at thirteen years old, man, I have a sixteen year old daughter. I realize how identity shifting that is. Having a baby, now there's all kinds of trauma. I deal with a lot of women who have experienced molestation, they've been abused, they've been raped. So a lot of women carrying different types of wounds from early childhood or adolescence. But a baby, you've got evidence on your hip.

• 14:02Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  And when you've got evidence, yeah.

• 14:04Emma Grede?

  You just made me go so cold.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  When you've got evidence on your hip, whether you're at the grocery store or you're at church, people are looking at you trying to do the math. And so I lived with the belief that you are a bad girl. People would look at you and there's pity and there's shame. And you begin to believe there's something wrong with me. And, you know, people, you know how babies come, right? So you have sex, you get pregnant, like the math is there. And so now I'm like, you're also stupid because how did you let this happen? And that's all I ate for years as it relates to identity and self-esteem. You're dumb, you're stupid, you're nasty, like over and over again, over and over again.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  So how does that show up in my present now? Though I've done the work and the healing and the praying and the meditating, I think there are still moments where I wonder like, are you really good enough for this moment? I would rather not do it at all than to risk disappointing people. But when I overcome those feelings of self doubt and of just not believing in myself, there's this other flip side of it where it's like. You've kind of already taken some of the biggest Ls you could take. So like if a podcast flops, it's not gonna break here. You know what I mean? Like when you have hit rock bottom, there is this temptation to stay there so that you never have to experience the collision again.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Or there is this belief that you can tap into that says, if this is truly as low as it can get, whether it's a teen pregnancy, it's grief, it's addiction, if this is the lowest it can get, then me sharing my voice on a platform, then me trying to start a business, if it doesn't work, it won't kill me because that was literally designed to kill me. There are very few people who can say they've gone through things that were literally designed to kill them. And if you manage to survive those things, I believe you owe it to your survival to dare to live again. And that living again can be big and bold where you're doing something that adds a huge platform, or it could be the smallest thing of waking up this morning,

• 16:19Speaker 01

  taking a shower, going outside and seeing what's happening in the world. But you owe it to yourself to try to live again. What I seek to do is to help women understand like, I'm just bait. Like maybe you've heard one of my messages, read one of my books and you're here because you know who I am. But the most important person in this room is the person who's sitting beside you. And we are intentional about creating connection because shame is isolating, doubt is isolating, worry is isolating. What I found out when I started blogging is that I wasn't by myself. There was this tunnel that I was living in that made me believe that I was the only one who had ever felt discarded, the only one who had ever felt damaged and that there was something wrong with me. Man, I owe as much to Woman Evolve as the women who I've been able to serve say

• 17:04Speaker 01

  that they owe to me because they helped me to see that I wasn't in it on my own.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Nerds.

• 17:13Speaker 03

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• 17:44Speaker 04

  Do you ever wish you could ask nosey questions about people's money?

• 17:46Speaker 05

  I have $729.71 in my bank account.

• 17:50Speaker 06

  We bought, you know, a $1.3 million house on a $350,000 income.

• 17:55Speaker 04

  On the podcast What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it.

• 18:02Speaker 07

  I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.

• 18:07Speaker 04

  Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 18:18Emma Grede?

  Does imposter syndrome, or any of the kind of underbelly of that shame, does that ever show up for you anywhere? Because when you're standing on a stage in front of thousands of people on a Sunday morning, I guess there has to be like, you know, every now and again, like some kind of self doubt that creeps up.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  I feel no need to try and talk myself out of being an imposter. There are parts of me that have no business standing where I am. I know where I've come from. I know what I've gone through. I know that there are people who are more eloquent, people who are more steady, people who on paper would be a better fit for the things that I do. But I'm the one here. And because I'm the one here, I'm going to step into the moment with everything I have or don't have. God makes up the difference for me, and it's an offering. My life is an offering. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone. I am already so much further than I ever thought that I would be, that like, maybe I shouldn't be up here, but since I'm the one who's got the mic right now, I'm going to serve the moment well, until whoever's supposed to be here finally makes it here on time. Until then, this is going to be the moment that I stand up to whatever's in front of me.

• 19:19Emma Grede?

  So talk to me, if you are somebody sitting at home right now that is in the worst moment of their life, they're in the middle of the worst chapter, knowing what you know and doing what you've done, what do you say to them right now, to someone who thinks that where they're at is going to define them for forever?

• 19:39Speaker 01

  I think that if you're in a season right now where you feel like this moment is going to define me forever, I think that you should figure out how it is defining you now, that you should study that definition, and then see where you want to make edits and amendments. I think sometimes the resistance of letting it define us has more stress than just embracing that this is now a part of my identity. This is a part of who I am now. I spent so long trying to not be a teen mom with a baby on my hip. You know, trying to not be the girl who went through the divorce while going through the divorce. Because I felt like I don't want to be who other people think I am because of what has happened to me. But this is a part of my truth, and so I have to embrace it, and I have to let it change me.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  And then I have to figure out who do I want to become based off of what I have left. And part of my belief is that there are things that can be made out of leftovers. Listen, my parents grew up on government cheese, okay? I was raised, my parents were on welfare. We know a thing or two about taking what looks like leftovers and making incredible meals. It's in the culture of how I've grown up. I think the same thing applies to our life experiences. We may have nothing but broken pieces left. And we can look at that and think to ourselves, there's nothing that can be made out of these broken pieces. Or we can dare to believe that there is a mosaic that maybe has never been seen before, maybe that we could not create in our own imagination,

• 21:04Speaker 01

  but that they really can all work together to produce something that looks like good and looks like God. These broken pieces have meaning, it's just a matter of who's going to find them most valuable. And it may not be the rooms full of forty thousand people, it may be that room with that one person. And so those broken pieces, they do have value. And I, I think I've been fortunate, you know, my influence has allowed me to let those broken pieces shine before millions and shine. Before one and yet there's been meaning in in each of those scenarios.

• 21:34Emma Grede?

  So let's talk a little bit about the business because you for sure are a businesswoman. You are doing, you know, you're selling out arenas, you're selling books, you have a platform. You have so many avenues to your business and so many tentacles to what it is that you're building. Talk to me about how this ecosystem comes together because I think so many people that are listening right now will think, you know, how do I monetize and develop my skill? So I I almost want you to frame up what it is that you do for anyone who doesn't know. And then let's talk, let's talk about this business that you've got.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  So, you know, I started as an entrepreneur, I'm speaking and I'm writing. So of course I'm I'm getting paid to write books and then I go out and I speak and it was pretty much just me.

• 22:18Emma Grede?

  And the books come from the blog, right? It's like you had the blog and then it was like you're writing books.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Publisher approaches me and says, hey, you've got this blog. Do you want to share your story? I'm like, sure, that's fine. And like, I didn't even know that you could like get paid for writing. And so I'm like, okay, this is great, you know, I'll share my story. And then I began to speak and I'd get invitations. And so I'm just facilitating the business of me at that point.

• 22:39Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  And being able to like set goals for myself. And so I think this is just going to be me. But then I have this idea for a conference and I'm thinking to myself, I didn't really want to have a conference just because I had a popular speaking voice. I really wanted to have a message that I felt like you could build a a movement on. And for me, that came from studying Eve in the Bible, which like, girl, you know, you may not be a Bible thumper, but let me tell you, Eve get a bad rap. Everyone knows that, whether they're a Bible thumper or not. I love a girl who knows better but didn't do better. And I love a guy that'll meet her in the midst of it all. And so Woman Evolved was this ode to Eve for all women who knew better but haven't always done better, but wanted to believe that better could still exist for them. So I'm going to host a conference and I realized that in order to host this conference, I'm going to need to bring in lights, I'm going to need to bring in cameras, I'm going to need to bring in speakers.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  And so there's a registration fee for the conference. When I started seeing this money hit my account, I realized, wait a minute, this is a business. Like, we're not just vibing, we're not just having ideas, you're not just signing books. This is legitimate business. People are investing their money and I have a Responsibility to be a good steward over the money that's coming in. As I launched the podcast, I realized that I am having to engage with other businesses for something that just felt like, oh, a passionate pursuit.

• 23:50Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  So I was thrust into business as a result of me pursuing my passion. Business is not at the forefront of my mind. That's why I'm grateful that I have my husband, who is more of a natural business person than I am. Because I've had this tutor that's been able to help me. As I began to see things grow, right? So now we've gone from a few thousand to millions of dollars coming in in revenue and millions of dollars going out as a result of expenses. I realized that we're going to have to be very intentional about what is our long-term goal and strategy. So of course, we want to have the conferences and events. But what is the legacy we want to leave? But how do we want to continue to attract incredible talent to make sure that we're amplifying in some of the most powerful ways possible? And that requires resources.

• 24:32Emma Grede?

  And so what does it look like? I'm curious to understand like the personas, right? Because it's like you have this one side of you that is very like outward facing and you're on stage and you're, you know, sharing your message. But there has to be another side of you who's like leading the business and working on that side of things when it comes to your book deals. And as you say, the strategy of what you're building, this media empire. What do those two versions of Sarah look like?

• 25:00Speaker 01

  You know, I'm probably more from my heart when speaking and more from my mind when doing the business side of things.

• 25:07Emma Grede?

  Are you comfortable in both?

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Yes, if there is more discomfort on one side, it's probably more the hard side because I'm introverted and I don't necessarily, I don't like speaking. I've just been through a lot and then you're exposing yourself to so many people. So I am protective, but I do on the, on the mind side of things, on the business side. I had to become intentional because nobody knows what this is but me. And people can come in and they can project their ideas of what it can become, but it's going to take it away from what I know it's supposed to be in my core. And I have to answer for what I did with this influence, for what I did with this call, for what I did with this purpose.

• 25:40Emma Grede?

  Are you the driver of the strategy and what you want it to be?

• 25:43Speaker 01

  I feel like I know what it is. It's hard to explain. I have a sense for what woman evolve is supposed to be. To be and how it resonates with those people. But I don't always have the talent or the skill set to translate what I feel into meaningful impact.

• 25:59Emma Grede?

  That's interesting. What do you mean by that? You don't have the talent and skill. I love to hear people talk about what they don't have. Cause everybody always talks about what they do have.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  So my husband on the business side of things, when we started bringing in larger contracts, I knew where the limits needed to be, but I didn't know how to communicate that to partners in a way that still honored the fact that we wanted to be in relationship, but also created some strong boundaries. And so I I depended on him for that. My friend Jason is an incredible visual director. I know what I wanted to feel like when the women come into the room, they need to feel fun. They need to feel loved. They need to feel the theme really infiltrate everything that they touch. He can execute that in a way that I can't. So I see myself as someone who understands the vision of what it's supposed to be, how it's supposed to show up, but the actual execution of it. I don't necessarily have the gifts and talents to do that in some arenas.

• 26:46Emma Grede?

  Oh, so I would just think about you as an excellent CEO and leader. Because and and here's one of the things that I love to talk about all the time. That as a woman in a leadership position, we always envisage that we need to have the answers to absolutely everything, that you need to be the best. And actually, you need to be great at what you're great at, and then you need to find all of the people around you to do and execute the rest. What you are is just an excellent leader. You're an excellent CEO. Doesn't mean to say you need to be, you know, you don't need to do the books. You don't need to do the finances. You don't need to do the visual. You need to have the vision and tell everybody where to go.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. I want to create space for the best to be the best. And so my goal is to attract the type of environment and culture that makes it easy for people who have a gift and a talent to come in and to be able to really expand it and magnify it in a way that is ultimately meaningful for the women we get to serve.

• 27:41Emma Grede?

  Do you have lessons in leadership that you feel like over the years, like what has changed in your style of leadership? And how you come into the kind of business of what it is that you do?

• 27:54Speaker 01

  For sure. I think when I first started, I would just take whatever came my way and whatever people said I should do. And I was finding myself like overwhelmed and not really being clear about my message, my brand, my desire to show up in the world as directed by what I believe my sense of calling is. And now I feel more agency, more of a sense of ownership to say what I will do, what I won't do. And I think one of the greatest things that I've learned as a leader is to not apologize for what I don't know. I think that there's this temptation when you're finished like accepting whatever comes your way, then now I'm going to overcompensate and know everything and do everything. And I felt like I had found the way to balance like this. I'm really strong in, I know this for sure. I know that for sure.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  And the things that I don't know, I don't mind not knowing because it doesn't change who I am in the equation of things. And I don't have to know something that I don't know. My father taught me, he's like, you only don't know once. So if you're ever in a room and someone's talking about something you don't know or something you don't understand, if you ask, you only don't know once. And then from there, you're able to add to your knowledge.

• 28:54Emma Grede?

  That's some good advice.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Isn't that great?

• 28:56Emma Grede?

  That's such good.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  He should do something with his life.

• 28:58Emma Grede?

  But yeah. He should do something. What's he doing over there? Um, I want to talk to you about money, my favorite subject. You grew up in, as you say, a house of faith.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:09Emma Grede?

  And I guess that that would have given you a very specific relationship with money. And I just wondered how it shaped your idea of money and how you think about wealth and earning money now.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Hmm. My father is more of a variety of like, I have money, you don't.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  So even.

• 29:27Emma Grede?

  We're rich.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That don't have nothing to do with you.

• 29:30Emma Grede?

  Not you. Yeah, yeah.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Like I said, I was, my parents were on government assistance when I was born. And so I've seen their life grow and evolve. But I think like a lot of families and cultures, like my, my parents were so busy surviving and trying to make the money that they didn't have time to talk about it. So we didn't have a lot of conversations about finances. My father would be on, don't ask me to borrow any if you have already spent the money that you had from your paycheck. So I feel like we, we learned a lot of things on our own or just by watching them. And so I've had to manage my relationship with money from a sense of like, if I don't talk about it, then I'm not going to be able to negotiate for what I. I need in this moment or to get what I need the truth from other people. That's the other thing about being in a position.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  I think this may be true in every field, but I think when you're in a position of faith, like people want to offer you something in exchange for what you've maybe done in their lives with your messages. And I want to know what it costs for real because, you know, gifts are nice, but I want to know what it would really cost for me to put this event on if you weren't here. And so I've had to have some intentional conversation with people about like, give me a realistic view of what this costs so that I can plan for longevity and not just for this season.

• 30:43Emma Grede?

  Has there ever been any conflict in you about essentially making money from a faith connected business?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  For sure. I think, one, even though like when you're writing books, the resources come from the publisher. There's this fine line of wanting to make sure that my ancillary businesses, which do bring in revenue, doesn't look like I'm taking it from people.

• 31:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  And I think that there are some legitimate concerns and legitimate ill practices that have taken place that has created distrust between people and faith leaders. And so I've constantly tried to position myself in such a way that I am able to sustain my life and the things that we have going on in our lives outside of resources or donations from other people. Like I've always tried to make sure that that was a part of what we do because I am relying ultimately on the gifts and talents that God gave me, just like everyone else has. And I want to make sure that we're leveraging them with responsibility.

• 31:46Emma Grede?

  I want to talk a little bit about your family life and you as a mother because it's such a huge part of who you are. When I was doing my research, I kind of counted like six kids in a blended family. But let's kind of take me back because we know that you're a teenage mom. I think your eldest is 23 now, Malachi.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 32:04Emma Grede?

  I mean, the idea of a 23 year old son when you're younger than me is mind blowing. Literally, yeah, it really, it really is something. I just wonder like what he has taught you about yourself. Because obviously, you know, it's like, it's what. You know, motherhood teaches you so much, but this particular child must have taught you maybe more than the others. I don't know.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Malachi has made me believe that I wasn't as bad as I thought I was. Because I think I spent so much of his childhood feeling like I'm just such a terrible person, such a terrible mom. He deserves so much better. I could do so much better. But he has some of the most beautiful memories of his childhood. Like, he texts me today, he was eating an orange, and he was like, this reminds me when I went to summer camp and he packed me this huge lunch. I got to feed all of my friends. And so even though I felt disconnected and distant, he was still getting a part of me that felt like the best part of me, even though I didn't know I was doing my best, which I think is such a message to women who are trying to do it all. That in those moments where you're hard on yourself because you feel like you're falling short, that these children are, they're grading us on a curve.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  They're grading us on a curve and they don't know any different. And if we can give them the love that we have, if we can give them the presence that we have, even as we're growing and changing, that it's enough. And as we grow, the more that we give them, that'll be enough too. But I, I don't think I was as bad of a mother as I thought I was as a teenager.

• 33:29Emma Grede?

  How does that make you feel?

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Thanks. Don't do it, Emma. Listen, girl, this is our second time talking. You're not finna have me. You're not finna have me crying.

• 33:38Emma Grede?

  Because I just, I, I understand that. Like, I understand living with a feeling of how you assumed it was going to be and almost like that becoming your reality in your head because you were like, I had him so young, I, I am a bad mom, this, you know. And, and then the idea that he can turn around and say to you, I have great memories. Like, that's a big deal.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  I think the idea that as, for me, the idea that I didn't want to mess it up, like so many of the choices that I made was because I didn't want to mess him up. I didn't want to mess him up. I think being driven by that made me show up for him in a way that kept me from messing it up. And I feel like if it really matters to you, even if you don't know what you're doing, the fact that you're trying, I, I think they pick up on the effort.

• 34:26Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  They pick up on the trying. And I think that that can give us consolation as we mother and navigate uncertainty.

• 34:35Emma Grede?

  Oh, my kids should be so happy with me there. So much effort. Doesn't always work out exactly as I want it to, but the intention. I actually think that, no, I don't know if I've ever heard anybody say that. That your kids will pick up on the effort and the intention.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:50Emma Grede?

  Which for any mother out there who is just doing her best.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:55Emma Grede?

  Is huge.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and.

• 34:57Emma Grede?

  I believe that.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  My son's in his twenties, but if you think about it, even as we think about our parenting dynamics, like the things that we penalize our parents for the most is like, it's like you, you didn't try. But then you can tell when they did try.

• 35:09Emma Grede?

  When they were trying.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  They were trying.

• 35:11Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  And I think that a lot of times we end up with parent ones because it feels like you didn't really try. Even when your best wasn't enough, we can at least reconcile the fact that, hey, at least you gave it your best shot. It's the not trying at all that I think leaves us the most wounded. Like, you could have at least tried.

• 35:27Emma Grede?

  Facts.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 35:28Emma Grede?

  Facts. The idea that they can actually feel the effort and the intention is a really big and really huge takeaway that I hope anybody that's listening to this really can double down on and understand, because if you're doing your best, that might be all you have to give.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 35:46Emma Grede?

  That might be it. I was interested in your parenting philosophy because you've got a lot of children. You have like, so you've got your first kid you had as a teenager.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 35:55Emma Grede?

  You then have a second kid. You then have three

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 35:58Emma Grede?

  in your current relationship and one that you had together.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:01Emma Grede?

  So I'm counting. It's, it's, it's a lot of things. It's six.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 36:04Emma Grede?

  It's six.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:05Emma Grede?

  And with everything going on, have you adopted a specific parenting style, parenting philosophy? Like, what, what is happening?

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Well, Emma.

• 36:13Emma Grede?

  What does your family look like?

• 36:14Speaker 01

  You know, the way I try to parent and the way I was parented, they don't, they don't go together.

• 36:18Emma Grede?

  Oh, good, because that was my next question. Yeah. Let's talk about that.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  And I had to, see, and the problem is that I was formed in a form of parenting that is so counter to the way that I want to parent, that I have to remind myself when parenting my children to not turn into my parents when parenting them. Because my parents, they didn't really care about your feelings. You know, they cared that you did what I told you to do. And I find myself when my children think I care about their feeling, and I led them to believe that I cared about their feelings, but Emma, sometimes I don't care. And that's the problem is they think I care when I don't. And so I'm having to create space for their feelings while also creating space for my own in this dynamic.

• 37:00Emma Grede?

  Just let's pause there for a second. Because I feel like this generational divide is so real, right? Let's just be like, never in my life of my entire childhood

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Talk about it.

• 37:12Emma Grede?

  Did my mother care about my feeling toward a certain situation.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  And I thought they were wrong until I started hearing these feelings. And I was like, that's why they didn't care.

• 37:25Emma Grede?

  They knew it was a slippery slope. And they said, we won't do this.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  We owe the boomers an apology because y'all had it a little right. Because now I find myself having to care about things I don't care about. So here I am after the longest day known to man, talking about what happened on the playground.

• 37:42Emma Grede?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  And I don't care.

• 37:44Emma Grede?

  Absolutely.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  And I don't care that you don't want to do your homework and that you don't want to eat these vegetables. But you know, I'm trying to like care in a way that I haven't. And that's interesting. My greatest philosophy about parenting beyond like, don't let these kids kill you and don't let these kids take you out is create space for you to be a person in the midst of it all. Because kids are selfish by nature. It's okay. The moment they enter the world, everything centers around them. But if you do not begin to introduce that you're tired, that you have vulnerable moments, that you're afraid sometimes, then they will think that you are superhuman instead of just a super good mom or a super good parent. And I want them to know that sometimes it costs me to show up in the way that I do,

• 38:28Speaker 01

  that I'm not always in a space where I can take on everything concerning you that I need time to. And so I'm trying to introduce them to who I am as a woman, not just who I am as their mother.

• 38:38Emma Grede?

  I mean, bravo. First of all, you're speaking to the start with yourself lately.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:42Emma Grede?

  So I am.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, because when I read your book, I was like, Emma.

• 38:46Emma Grede?

  You were like, the family chapter starts with you.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  I was like, I don't know if you edit it properly.

• 38:54Emma Grede?

  You like to.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  I learned a lot. No, your book, it really helped me tremendously with business and with family.

• 39:00Emma Grede?

  Well, I'm so happy that you say that. And I think it's a really important point that you make. Because if you don't reinforce the idea that you are something other than a mother, you kind of set your entire family up to see you but nothing other than a mother.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:14Emma Grede?

  Right? And so you have to kind of take responsibility for that, too. And I feel like so many of us make ourselves indispensable to our family. We make our households incapable of running without us. And then we wonder why everybody's looking to us to do everything.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 39:29Emma Grede?

  And so I think that when I think about Start With Yourself, it's that, you know what? Everybody in this house can pick things up from the floor. And everybody can make a dinner and everybody can contribute. And so the idea that the mother is going to just be there to constantly service the needs of everybody really dissipates when you've taught everyone that that's not how it is from the get go.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 39:52Emma Grede?

  And so I think that there is so much that I always want to do, but I don't need everybody else to want me to do it, too.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:00Emma Grede?

  So for me, it's just about being really honest about, you know, everybody contributes to this. It's not like mom number one and then, you know, like a bunch of children. It's just not how it works.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  That's my first sign that I need to make a pivot, that my life has gotten imbalanced. Is when my children start asking me to do things that is perfectly reasonable for them to ask me to do, but that irritates me. So like if they start asking me what's for dinner, I know that like, okay, I've moved into this space where I'm allowing everyone to rely on me, so much so that when they ask me a simple question like what's for dinner, I'm annoyed and irritated.

• 40:35Emma Grede?

  Get me, I gotta feed you.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Can I get a drink?

• 40:36Emma Grede?

  Can I get a snack?

• 40:37Speaker 01

  I'm like, yeah, wait a minute. You know what I mean? And so allowing them to like, you know, I'm like, I need help, I need support, or we're gonna have to ask.

• 40:44Emma Grede?

  Training.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Yes, I have to reorient them.

• 40:46Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  But you know, I think the other thing is a lot of times, now this is gonna be deeper, you ready?

• 40:50Emma Grede?

  Let's go.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  I think that when we have had moments like I've had where we have struggled with self-esteem and low self-worth, it is affirming that the world only spins if we're in the center of it.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  And it can be edifying for us that everyone needs us. It makes us feel valued. It makes us feel maybe stressed and all of those things too. But we kind of like that this world would fall apart if I wasn't in it. And I do think that there is a need for us to de-center ourselves and to not need the world to revolve around us if we're really going to experience the type of liberation that allows them to, one, grow up and be self-sufficient, but also for us to be affirmed outside of what we do for other people. We have to remove the need for other people to to center themselves around us.

• 41:34Emma Grede?

  I mean, a million percent. And not only that, but the ability for you to be able to meet yourself in the highest possible way, you need to not be dragged down by all of this stuff that everybody else can help with, right? So it's like, the two things are, we have to remove our ego from any of that situation and really understand, like, what is the goal? Not just for me, but for the entirety of our family. Like, that's a really key thing. I want everybody to feel like they have a position and a job and a role in this family, and I don't want to have to carry that. God forbid if anything ever happened to me. I always think, like, I want my kids and my husband to feel like they understand, like,

• 42:19Emma Grede?

  what is required, that they are part of, like, what has built this, and that it doesn't live and fall with me. I always try to have a level of honesty about the things that I am not doing. Because when you work as much as you do, and you have all of those kids, like, something gives, and I talk about trade-offs all the time. Do you have trade-offs? Are there things that you are just not doing? The other moms might be like, I do that all the time. What are you not doing?

• 42:44Speaker 01

  I don't cook as often as I should. We definitely have support in in the kitchen, because it's a lot of work and a lot of mouths to feed.

• 42:51Emma Grede?

  There's a lot of food.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  I don't do the laundry. I just, I said, this is what I started doing when I started growing in the area of revenue. I started asking myself, how much of this am I doing that someone else could do that would not necessarily damage my children? And they do not care whether or not I fold their clothes. They don't.

• 43:14Emma Grede?

  No.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  They they do like to have clean underwear, though.

• 43:18Emma Grede?

  And we like them to have clean underwear.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  I prefer.

• 43:21Emma Grede?

  But who clings to underwear?

• 43:22Speaker 01

  There there's a little negotiation there, you know, and so it started like we would maybe a laundry service for just a few things. But then we've been able to evolve that as well. So, yeah, there's definitely some some things that I'm not doing. And then there are other things that I absolutely have to do. I will die on a hill about getting them kids to school in the morning and picking them up.

• 43:42Emma Grede?

  I. We all have our hard and fast, like.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Must see them. I need to see their attitudes before they go to school and I need to see their attitudes when they're coming home. So when I'm on a trip like this, their sister's picking them up, which is like then their older sisters, like the next best thing to have a mom look at them. Cause I know that she'll take care of them, but I don't I don't play about being with them. And can I tell you, I think not even basing it on income. Because part of what low income families are able to do that often middle and upper class families don't do is low income families. They work together in order to facilitate someone's going to school and.

• 44:17Emma Grede?

  Like we all did back in the day.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so I think that we have an opportunity to also make sure that we are allowing people to help us. People who say things like, if you need anything, let me know that we don't want people to feel like, well, I don't want them to think I'm not being responsible, so I don't want to ask for any help. So important is help that there are literally government assistant programs to help caretakers have a day out. So that they can take care of themselves instead of taking care of other people. And I also want to just challenge people to not think that help is limited to certain income brackets. That there's often community support and there are often programs that exist to help people of all income spectrums to be able to get help and support that they need.

• 44:54Emma Grede?

  But you still got to be open to taking the help.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  But you got and admitting that you need it.

• 44:57Emma Grede?

  Admitting that you need it is a huge, huge thing. And let me tell you who else you need to help you. You need your husband to help you, which takes me to my next subject, which is the whole marriage and the business and the partnership. Because you work with your husband. And one of the things that I wanted to ask you is that for women that have fought so hard to become their own person and to have their independence. What does it look like trying to actually build alongside somebody?

• 45:24Speaker 01

  You know, Emma, I tell my husband all the time, I'm so submissive. I'm so submissive. I say that because. After he is wrestling with me.

• 45:31Emma Grede?

  If you have to tell him, I feel.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Like it might not be true. I'm like, you know what? I am blown away by how submissive I am. It really. You know, and he giggles. I'm not sure what the joke is. It's hard, especially like, I'm gonna talk to you like I would talk to like one of my homegirls, right? When you have had somebody play in your face and play with your time and play with your body and your money, the last thing you're gonna do is let somebody get over on you again. Let me just, let me just lay down and see what happens next time. Absolutely not, right? And so I think I got married. I was like, I love him, but like, I'm never gonna let anybody play in my face again. But what I realized is like, having someone reflect your face is not the same as someone playing in your face. And so I had to learn the beauty. How long did that take you?

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Well, we're 12 years in, so. Last year. 11 years and six months, you know, you know, it's hard. I was so busy trying to protect myself from him that I didn't get to experience the beauty of who he is. And so trusting, because of my faith, we had this like what God has put together, let no person tear apart. And I didn't want to be the one who was tearing it apart. And so I really had to trust that God would allow me to be in partnership with someone who could help make my life better. Even though I had experiences where I put myself with someone in the past and it didn't make it better. So there is a humility. There is an awareness. That's the other thing is I recovered so hard that I didn't think I had any flaws.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  You know, after I went down in the dumps and came up like the phoenix that I believe that I am, I said, wow, you really are that girl. There are very few things wrong with you, and if they are, they're in your past. Then I meet Prince Charming and Prince Charming's like, your shoes off. And I'm like, sir, I prefer to be barefoot.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  And he's like, okay, well, your wig is still there. I prefer my wig tilted. I will take that off for you. Like, I've seen that stuff on stage. And so I missed out on the opportunity to like really have meaningful feedback that can make me better. And so when I learned to like at least take his feedback, even if I took it with my eyes rolled and then like, you don't know what you're talking about, I'd like take it into my closet and be like, let me look. Get it and see what he said. And I would see opportunities for me to grow and opportunities for me to change. And I learned to come to a space where I realized we really are on the same team. Now, his delivery may be different from mine. His perspective may be different. We may have to learn how to communicate things. But I know that he's for me and knowing that he is for me has been one of the greatest

• 48:03Speaker 01

  gifts that I think that I have been able to offer to our marriage because it has changed the way that we communicate. But it is hard to be in partnership after you've been wounded and hurt and to allow someone into the most intimate parts of your life is challenging. But when you really trust that that person is there to make your life flourish and they have evidence of it, right? Because we're not just talking about words. I looked at the way that his evidence showed up. We were just dating. He lived in California. I lived in Dallas. It was my daughter's first day of school. He flies into town for her to go to her first day of school. You know what I mean? There were these little things, these little signs along the way where I said, I can trust him. And most importantly, you can trust yourself again. And I feel like, yeah.

• 48:46Emma Grede?

  That.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  You can trust yourself again when you've made poor decisions in the past.

• 48:50Emma Grede?

  You don't trust yourself.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  It's not about the other person.

• 48:53Emma Grede?

  That's always what I feel like when there are tough relationships, when there are infidelities, when you feel like somebody has played in your face, to use your words. It's not just a mistrust of the other side. It's a mistrust of yourself.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:08Emma Grede?

  Like you are like, I didn't see that. I didn't understand that. I allowed that to happen to me. So you have to build that trust of yourself. Do you, do you trust yourself now?

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yes, I do. I trust myself to do the best that I can with what I know and to recover from what I don't know.

• 49:31Speaker 03

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• 50:32Emma Grede?

  Where does the kind of past creep up with you? Because one of the things is so extraordinary. First of all, you have a marriage and a life and children with your husband. You also work together.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  We do.

• 50:44Emma Grede?

  Which completely like just adds, you know, a little spice and fire and all the things to the dynamic. How have you kind of reconciled both of those things?

• 50:54Speaker 01

  I think, and we're both drivers, right? So when we work together, we play a game called How Low Can You Go?

• 51:01Emma Grede?

  Oh, please tell.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Okay, so it's like, you know, here's what I think should happen. But hey, I'm going to toss it over to him to see what he'd like to see happen. He tosses it back to me like, that's a great idea. Here's another perspective that could help take this to the next level. So we're always trying to like honor one another's contribution because we are both the drivers. But I also think that we recognize that we have different strengths. And so he's very macro. He can see the big picture and to see the big vision. I can see some of the roadblocks we may encounter in the executing of those ideas. And that happens like the same way our family exists is the same way that our business relationship exists. And so he may have this idea like, hey, the family's going to run a 5K. And I'm like, that sounds like a really great idea.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  In execution, that means we need to start training three days a week. We need to change the nutrition. Like, I'm the one who's going to say like, okay, we need to, this is how it's going to filter out. And so that that same thing exists in our business. And so, and I've also learned to communicate to him in a way that allows our ideas to really be platformed properly. It's a dance. It's a dance.

• 52:05Emma Grede?

  It's a dance.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  It's a dance. He doesn't care. There are certain things that he, I know he doesn't care about. And there are things he knows that I don't care about. But we have to keep one another informed about those things that the other person doesn't care about because that gets tricky too.

• 52:16Emma Grede?

  So tell me like, if there's a big decision in your business that would affect like thousands of people, who wins out? Like who, what happens in those situations?

• 52:25Speaker 01

  That we, we both win. We have to, if there's something big, we have to both agree.

• 52:31Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  About the decision that we're going to take, or we don't do it at all.

• 52:35Emma Grede?

  Oh, I like that rule.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:36Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  And the smaller things is kind of like, hey, I think that's gonna be a loss, but that's up to you. You know what I mean? It's your L to take, or we'll take the L together. You know what I mean? But while we're taking the L and be telling you, hey, we didn't have to take this L. But the big things, uh, we, we have to be on the same page about.

• 52:52Emma Grede?

  It's a good rule. I really, I, I think and I know that that works.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:58Emma Grede?

  I wanted to ask you about legacy because you obviously, you know, your father is one of the most famous pastors in the whole world. And when I think about the idea that you are, you know, for so, in some extent, following in his footsteps. I wonder how you make it yours and how you're thinking about what you wanna take from what you learned and what you saw growing up and what you might wanna leave behind and what's in your future.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  I don't know if I think about that much at all, to be honest.

• 53:31Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think about how to make it mine. I just am me and I bring me to it. And whatever happens from that place, happens from that place. But I think that, um, you know, I've grown up in this shadow my entire life. And I think that there were moments where I was like, I'm gonna be myself, I'm gonna have distinction and I'm gonna force myself to have a carve out. And I think in the process of doing that, I just wore myself out. And so now I just focus on like, what is true for me, what is authentic to me and my delivery and my studying and the way that I connect and relate to people. And in the process of doing that, you know, people make whatever choices they make about whatever lane I'm in or whatever it is they see.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  But I wanna be able to lay down at night and say that I was true to myself and true to what I possess.

• 54:20Emma Grede?

  So how do you think about constantly being a woman who is evolving?

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Well, as it relates to the speaking and being able to talk to people, I really look at them. I think in a world where we can become consumed by seeing people as figures and numbers. That we miss out on the opportunity to really see them. And so when I'm in a room and I'm speaking, I'm looking at what moves people, what resonates with them. To really see them as people, I'm asking myself on studying, what does this mean to the guy who sits on the second row? What does this mean to the person who's gonna watch this on YouTube? One of the beauties of social media, and it's got a lot of complexities. But one of the beauties is it allows you to see how people think, how people receive what's happening in the world. And so I get to ask myself, how does this message translate to all of these different people that I get to be exposed to?

• 55:10Speaker 01

  And I think that that evolves me as a woman. You know, I am in a position where I get to meet people in some of their most vulnerable moments, and some of their most vulnerable dreams and aspirations. And the fact that they would trust me with that makes me want to be as well-versed as possible about the obstacles they face, practical, emotional, spiritual. And to give them the types of tools that empower them to take agency in their lives. As part of the reason why I've gone back to school is to understand what interventions work, which ones don't, and how do I create the types of programs that allow people to really feel positioned to grow into the best versions of themselves. And so I see my teachers as the people who are on the streets, as much as my professor, as much as it is my Bible and the books that I read.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  I've got teachers everywhere.

• 55:56Emma Grede?

  I wonder what you still aspire to and for in your life.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  I aspire to take the large impact of women evolve and to funnel it down into local expressions that are well-informed about the obstacles and barriers that exist within certain communities and create the type of programmings and tools to help those who are marginalized to move into a position of power. I think a lot about AI and how it's gonna impact a generation of people who may not be as educated or may not have as much access to technology as it changes. And, you know, no matter how far removed you think you are from that, it's gonna impact all of us. And I wanna give them the best shot possible at having a life of, you know, stability for sure,

• 56:46Speaker 01

  but also wholeness and healing.

• 56:49Emma Grede?

  That's a really big aspiration.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  I know, I've got to funnel it down.

• 56:52Emma Grede?

  No, I've got it. I mean, if anyone can do it, you can do it.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 56:56Emma Grede?

  All right, we're going to rapid fire. What are you watching or listening to right now that has nothing to do with faith?

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Oh, um. One second. Um, we do, oh, Lioness. Uh, there's something spiritual about Lioness, though. I don't know. It doesn't have something to do with faith, because my girl is out there doing the Lord's. No, okay.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Lioness. We just binge watched Lioness at Paradise. You know, Emma, let me tell you something, please. As a girl who grew up in church, particularly black church, we find something spiritual about everything, okay? We just be like, I feel a little oil on that. That's what we say, okay? I'll be watching shows that don't have anything to do with faith.

• 57:37Emma Grede?

  You'll be like, you know, I can see it.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Honey, if I bite into the right morsel of food, I would be like, holy ghost, right here. Found it right here. So, you know, everything's gonna be a little spiritual for me, but Paradise and Lioness is probably taking over right now.

• 57:53Emma Grede?

  First of all, that's just a great answer, and I feel like that about almost every meal I have. Um, what is your morning routine on a Sunday before you preach?

• 58:01Speaker 01

  I get up, well, no. When I first, when my alarm first goes off, I keep my eye mask on for a minute, and I sit there and I breathe. And I remind myself of what day it is, because sometimes I don't even know what day it is or what is expected of me during the day. But I invite the peace of God and the presence of God into my day and ask that I can be a reflection of God in everything that I do. That's before I step out of the bed.

• 58:30Emma Grede?

  I love that.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:31Emma Grede?

  What's the last thing you searched?

• 58:35Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know. What's the last thing I remember?

• 58:38Emma Grede?

  Be honest.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Because the most random things are in my search history. Oh, my gosh. I'm gonna have to give you the most random. My husband and I were looking up something random. I can't remember what it was. I don't know. Probably something about a wash and go hairstyle. See, because my daughter wanted to get her, she wanted to, I, let me tell you, you know, I wear a lot of wigs, as I've mentioned, and so my hair is usually braided down and have seen.

• 59:11Emma Grede?

  We have seen.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  You know, um, my hair is usually braided down, but every now and then, my daughter, I let her take her hair out, and she's been wanting to do a wash and go, and I really thought that doing a wash and go was like washing and going. And what I learned is that the people are lying on the internet.

• 59:25Emma Grede?

  They're lying.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  If you should trust anybody, it should be the people on the internet. I don't know why y'all calling these things a wash and go. It's very much like a wash and stay home before you go anywhere. And so I probably.

• 59:35Emma Grede?

  We don't have time for it. No, absolutely not.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:39Emma Grede?

  No, hard no.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:41Emma Grede?

  No. So don't, don't search that. Um, what's your top guilty pleasure?

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Oh, a Starbucks cookie, a chocolate chip cookie from Starbucks.

• 59:50Emma Grede?

  Oh, really?

• 59:50Speaker 01

  It's terrible.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Emma, it's terrible.

• 59:56Emma Grede?

  How often do you allow yourself? What, what's the indulgence rate?

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Well, okay, so here's the thing. People say that like, you know, nutrition, if you do like 80% good and 20% bad. So 80% of my day is good. That 20% I save. So, you know, is it every day?

• 1:00:13Emma Grede?

  It could be.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Possibly.

• 1:00:15Emma Grede?

  Possibly, yeah. I mean, I understand that. I used to work with this guy who, um, and he was like a junior guy in the office, and that we'd all be around and the girls, and we'd be having a treat, and he used to walk past our desks and say, "It's not a treat if it happens every day, girls." And I just remember you.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  So offended. Someone hurt him. I want you to be free from that.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  I want freedom for you.

• 1:00:40Emma Grede?

  Okay, leave us about 20%. All right, last question. What is a book that changed your perspective?

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  And, oh, I was probably supposed to say the Bible.

• 1:00:49Emma Grede?

  I thought you were going to. But no, no, no, you can choose any book that you, any, any other book.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Okay, Permission to Feel by Mark Brackett. It was life-changing for me. I had gone through this. At my book hit the New York Times bestseller list, and my friends and family, they were all excited, and I just did not care. And I, I realized that there was something wrong with me where I wasn't able to feel moments accurately, and that book really helped me a lot.

• 1:01:17Emma Grede?

  Wow. Thank you, my love. This is heaven. Thank you.

• 1:01:25Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favourite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Executive producer, Ashley McShan. Derek Brown. And me. Our executive producers from Odyssey. Leah Reese-Dennis. Asha Saluja. Lauren Legrosso. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox. Kurt Courtney. Andrew Steele. And Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan. Catherine Bale.

• 1:02:09Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith. Sydney Ford. My teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran. Josefina Francis. Hilary Schuff. Eric Donnelly. Kate Hutchinson Rose. Tim Meekle. Shaun Cherry. And Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelt G-R-E-D-E. That's aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.