Part One: Behind the Bastards Q&A: 2026 Edition

Happy New Year, Robert and Sophie sit down and answer listener questions. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Robert Evans?

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• 1:18Robert Evans?

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• 1:44Speaker 02

  Happy New Year, everybody. Welcome to Behind the Bastards. I'll be leading this episode. I am your executive producer, Sophie Lichterman. I'm gonna ask Robert some of your questions. Robert, how you doing, buddy?

• 1:58Robert Evans?

  Uh, I'm doing, you know, it's, it's that fun time of the year where the holidays are over. We still don't quite have to work, but also I can, I can feel it coming, the, the real world, having to get back into the real world, you know?

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14Robert Evans?

  So that, that part's not great. The like looming knowledge that the stuff that you were like, ah, the world's over. News is over. I don't have to pay attention to anything for the next period of time. Well, that period of time has come to an end and it's, it's time to reengage with reality. I'm at that part of the year. So, you know, mixed.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. What was a, a highlight for you over your semi time off?

• 2:39Robert Evans?

  Uh, I don't know. Not, not really any particular highlight. I just didn't do much.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Excuse me?

• 2:45Robert Evans?

  What? I mean, we had a party.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Thank you. And your highlight wasn't starting fire with the lightsaber torch I got you?

• 2:52Robert Evans?

  Yeah. You got me a lightsaber torch that I started a fire with. That was fun.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  You looked really cool.

• 2:57Robert Evans?

  Got me some nice liquor. That was fun.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  You, I did. You did. You looked very cool that night.

• 3:01Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Robert, Robert got me, uh, every year Robert gets me some kind of really cool weapon. Uh, at the beginning of, of 2025, he got me a Bowie knife after I had surgery. Everybody else sent flowers, not my business partner, Robert, got me a really cool axe one year. A machete.

• 3:21Robert Evans?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  What you called, Sophie, this is your purse knife, which was one of my favorite things you've ever said to me. And this year.

• 3:26Robert Evans?

  Everyone needs a purse knife. Yeah.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  You got me this thing.

• 3:30Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's like a, it's a Moroccan, like a ceremonial dagger. So, you know, you're supposed to, it's like, it's a, I think it's like a hundred years old. You're supposed to.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  It's beautiful.

• 3:40Robert Evans?

  And weddings and, and kind of fancy events like that. I can do, I could stand to do some rehab on the blade for you.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Um, cool.

• 3:47Robert Evans?

  Cause it's kind of dull at the moment, but yeah, you could, you could cut, you could cut like a, like a, like a goat's throat with that. If you had to, if you're being attacked by a goat and had to defend yourself with a knife, you know, it would work for that.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  It's pretty cool. You also one year for my birthday, got me this, uh, like horseshoe knife. Like that's like for like, that looks like a horseshoe, but it's for like a cheese board. I get compliments on it all the time. And I

• 4:12Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that knife.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Robert's a great gift giver, everybody. Anyways.

• 4:16Robert Evans?

  It's easy if you're just getting knives.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know, nobody gives me a knife the way you give me a knife. You know what I mean?

• 4:22Robert Evans?

  Thank you.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Um, we got 481 comments on the thread asking for, for questions for this Q and A as of time of recording, which is New Year's Day, everyone. I'm gonna ask as many, as many as we have time for. You ready?

• 4:40Robert Evans?

  Let's, let's do it. Let me, let me get a slug of my Mountain Dew Baja Blast.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Shut the fuck up. That's what you're drinking?

• 4:48Robert Evans?

  Yeah, baby.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Is it good?

• 4:49Robert Evans?

  Yeah, sugar free Baja Blast.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Do I need to drink that? Cause I, I've got a, I've got a Schweppes. Is that how you say? I don't even know. That's how you say it.

• 4:56Robert Evans?

  You say what?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Schweppes? Got a Schweppes?

• 4:59Robert Evans?

  Yeah, that seems, that sounds right. I know what you're talking about.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  That's a good ginger. Wait, uh, do I need to drink that?

• 5:06Robert Evans?

  I wouldn't recommend it. It's not good.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Fair enough. Um, unless you want to sponsor a Mountain Dew, then.

• 5:12Robert Evans?

  Yeah, sure. Then it's great.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Then we'll say whatever you want. Anyways, uh, what are your tips and tricks for identifying false information while doing your research?

• 5:24Robert Evans?

  Well, hmm, that's tough because there's such like a wide variety of false information, right? And, and, and some, there's not really any basic tips that can help. I call this like good natured disinformation or good natured bad information. And it's, no one's trying to propagandize you. No one's trying to like fuck with you. It's just a false version of reality has spread because somebody got a story wrong and started telling it. And other people have been like retelling it and, and, and adding into it. And if there's not like an agenda, that's kind of hard. You just have to actually dig into like what the work historians have done.

• 6:00Robert Evans?

  I would say as a general rule, if something sounds too good to be true, like if it's exactly what you want to believe about a really complicated and difficult situation, you should take a second look at it. And if it just sounds like too cool and wacky and like something in a movie, like a lot of times that is true. A lot of times history is crazier than anything that winds up in a movie. But if there's like. Like a specific anecdote that I'm like, I don't know, I'll just like type a description of that anecdote in. And then I'll, I'll put in like his, ask historians Reddit or something like that to see if, and that gets rid of the low hanging fruit. Right. If it's common disinformation or a common, just like inaccuracy that gets spread around.

• 6:41Robert Evans?

  Someone who knows their shit will have talked about it there and will have sources, right? So you're not just relying on a Reddit post. You can look back, you can find where the myth has been busted. You can also just like type in again, like a brief description of the anecdote, comma, myth, comma, you know, something like that. To see if like, it has been discussed in that context. Or if there have been a lot of times, what you'll find is historians who are analyzing it and who have found, okay, this, these couple of parts probably aren't true. This part might be surprisingly true, but like that's, that's kind of how I go about doing that sort of thing. If you're asking about like, how do you tell if like pictures or videos are AI generated?

• 7:22Robert Evans?

  That's a separate set of like skills and tactics that probably runs longer than we have in this episode. But when I'm just like casually studying history and I come across something that I'm like, I don't know about that. It's also useful when you are reading a history book, when you've like, especially like if it's kind of more in the pop history side of things. And you're really enjoying it, that always, if, if, if it's super entertaining and I find myself like unusually into it. Sometimes that's just a sign that like a really good writer got a hold of some history. But it's also sometimes a sign that like someone's massaging the facts to make a better piece of pop history. So I will search for the book and variations of like historians analyze response from a historian and see,

• 8:07Robert Evans?

  are there some professionals who have better or equivalent credentials to the author? Who have taken issue with some of the claims that they've made, right? These are all kind of like tactics that, that you can use. There's not like a one size fits all.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  And like, how many sources are you using for different things? I feel like never, never just accept one source.

• 8:26Robert Evans?

  You try not to accept one. Every now and then you run into something where like, well, there's really one book about this guy. Or there's like one good book about this thing. And I will at least try then to like, come across like, well, what's some like untrue? What are some bad books? Like, what's some bullshit that got spread? Cause then at least we're broadening it from here's what's in that book to, and here's some stuff that's spread that's not true or whatever. Like you, you, you try to like, when I'm at least putting together the podcast, I always want to be saying like, okay, there's, there's more than is just in this one source. Like when I was working on the Nuke episodes, I started reading that Andy Jacobson book. I realized that there's a number of people who have some good issues with that book, including some I discussed in the episode. So I, I read two other books and I read that,

• 9:12Robert Evans?

  John Rubel's like, you know, essays and stuff, because they provided like more context. And when I looked at the stuff, okay, there's people who have like issues with this part of Jacobson's book, but they seem to speak highly of command and control. So why don't I use, you know, for that segment of the history, I'll focus more on what command and control or what 15 minutes has to say. And that way, number one, you're just, you're getting a more varied, you're, you're giving the, the listeners, the audience, something more varied and effortful than just here's one book and what one guy said in one book. And you're also hopefully avoiding some of like the most obvious pitfalls.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Sure. And I mean, again, just, just to say the obvious, never trust the Google AI summary.

• 9:58Robert Evans?

  No, no. And you can always, when you're Googling now, if you just want to avoid that, just with whatever you're typing in, add minus AI at the end, just a space and then minus AI. And it doesn't mean that there won't be AI generated articles or whatever in your responses. That's basically impossible to avoid, but it cuts out the AI generated summary because that alone, sometimes it's right. And when it's right, it's like, fine, I guess. But the downside is when it's right, you'll read that instead of reading an actual source that probably will tell you more. And it's also So hard to tell when it's wrong and there's often just kernels of wrong baked into the right and you're really doing yourself more of a favor by trying to find a better source. So I find that just not having that little summary there can kind of like avoid you sort

• 10:43Robert Evans?

  of casually almost act because sometimes it's accidental. Sometimes you can't just the way your brain works, your eyes work, you're going to read the thing at the top even before you scroll down.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:53Robert Evans?

  Right. Yeah, even if you are scrolling down to read a real thing, you may catch something in there and not realizing it realize that you're picking up some disinformation. So I, I, I kind of start with that, like that's my baseline. I've also, I'm, you can do the same thing on DuckDuckGo, I think. So I've been using that more. I'm kind of experimenting. I'm hoping to find this next year, like a search engine solution that I'm happier with. Cause nothing that we've got right now is better than Google was like six years ago.

• 11:25Robert Evans?

  But I found DuckDuckGo generally better than Google now and doing the minus AI, you know, thing gets you better, like, or at least reduces the odds of you getting some bad information.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  What bastard or bastards have you not done because the research will take too long or they're just too complicated?

• 11:45Robert Evans?

  Uh, I mean, I haven't done the Nixon episode yet because there's so many books that I know I need to get through to do it. And that's only part of it. I had been planning to do it in 2024 and talked about doing with the Dollop guys. They were on board and my dad got sick and I just haven't gotten like, it's been a while now, I should have gotten back into it. I just kind of haven't because it's, it's such a, it's such a heavy lift.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 12:12Robert Evans?

  I haven't done Mao yet for the same reason, you know? I do those heavy lifting episodes periodically throughout the year. The Nuke one was a heavy lift, you know, there were a number of books involved in that. Himmler was a heavy lift, a number of books involved in that. You know, the Zizians was a heavy lift.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Several comments on Himmler, people want more Himmler.

• 12:34Robert Evans?

  People always want more Himmler. That's what everyone was saying when he died.

• 12:39Robert Evans?

  So like I, I'm try, I try to do like at least every quarter, like a heavy lift effort, you know, longer episode, but there's a lot of those. So I just, there's not like a particular reason other than I just didn't feel confident tackling that one at that time.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Sure. Um, this next one says, what are some unexpected commonalities between bastards other than grew up in poverty and had abusive parents slash guardians?

• 13:05Robert Evans?

  Yeah, I wouldn't even say, I mean, those are commonalities between a number of bastards from specific time periods, but they're not commonalities, I think, because having, being poor or having like a household where, you know, you don't have both parents around is a common thing with bastards. It just was really common for kids growing up in those time periods. Like, is it, should we see it as significant that Hitler was poor and that his dad died when he was young and his mom died tragically when he was not a whole lot older and it really fucked him up? Or it's like, but those were really normal experiences for just kids in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Sickness and disease were a lot easier

• 13:46Robert Evans?

  to, you know, just wipe out portions of your family and poverty of that sort was a lot more common. So it, I think you're kind of like a misnomer if you're, if you're looking at that as like, and those are common traits of monsters, because even if we're looking at the Nazis, it was more common for the big Nazis to have been comfortable and of like what we might call at least like a middle class upbringing than it was for them to be as like poor and downtrodden as Hitler was. And he really, you know, he had a very tough childhood, but I would say that's almost the exception more than it is the rule. One of the big rules is a kind of, I mean, it's almost like too much to say, not even

• 14:28Robert Evans?

  like a sense of megalomania, but a desperation to be somebody, to like be someone who matters in your society is like you see it and, and like this kind of desperate need to be attached to whatever group is in power. Right? It's this yearning to be close to power that I think often predicts a lot of like the worst people, like the, the folks who will do anything for their career to like improve the perception of their place in society. That's like the biggest warning sign, I think that you see that somebody's going to do some really bad shit.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Let's go to a quick ad break and then we'll be back with more questions.

• 15:19Speaker 00

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• 15:49Robert Evans?

  This ad is brought to you by ViiV Healthcare, the makers of Dovato, Dolutegravir, Lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Dovato. Dovato is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Dovato is right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Dovato is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Dovato.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  It is unknown if Dovato is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B. If you have Hep B, don't stop Dovato without talking to your doctor, as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking Dofetilide due to serious or life-threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop Dovato and get medical help right away. Other serious or life-threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding, or planned pregnancy.

• 16:48Robert Evans?

  Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit dovato.com or call 1-877-844-8872.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  We're back.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  All right. So, Robert, what made you initially want to become a journalist? Was there a specific journalist or publication that inspired you to take that path?

• 17:12Robert Evans?

  I mean, I remember as a kid during the Yugoslav civil war and the genocide in Bosnia, catching some news, like live news footage from Sarajevo and thinking that like, wow, like what a, like what an important, serious job. Maybe I'll do something like that as an adult. Like, you know, the reporters on the ground that were talking about like, what was happening in the city. I remember thinking that like, that's, that's like something adults do. That's a serious job for serious people. And so I definitely like, that's the first time I can remember thinking that like, something in line with the career I

• 17:55Robert Evans?

  wound up picking out sounded intriguing. And then, I don't know, like as a, an 18, 19 year old, reading Transmetropolitan for the first time. It's a comic book series with a journalist as a protagonist that's set in the, in the far future. It's very good. It's one of the best illustrated graphic novel series I think I've ever seen. And I really, I still revisit it every couple of years. That definitely like jazzed me up as a, as an adolescent, as a, you know, young adult. And then I was really influenced by Occupy Wall Street. You know, I was there at Zuccotti Park for a couple of days. I saw little bits of some of the regional ones and I just was never happy with the

• 18:40Robert Evans?

  coverage that was going on, either like the mainstream media coverage or the stuff that was really celebrated at the time, which was like a lot of the people who were like within the movement and kind of doing movement coverage of what was happening. I mean, that's kind of where Tim Poole came out of, right? So I think maybe I was, maybe I was just could see that a problem was coming. But I was, I was not happy with what I was seeing. And I was, I was becoming, as I became more, you know, in my early twenties, more acquainted with like history and particularly like the political history of Latin America and US interactions in the Middle East. I grew like more and more frustrated with the news with what I still saw as this like really important. Job that I thought was being like kind of systemically done badly.

• 19:26Robert Evans?

  I took when I was in college, I took courses on the Holocaust and remembrance that was about how the Holocaust has been covered in like movies and fiction, but also how the Holocaust was reported on at the time and afterwards. A lot of that stuff, by the way, made it into the episodes about how like the liberal media helped fascism get a foothold, you know, the last time. So really, since I was in kind of like 2021, I've been I've been thinking about like the shortcomings of our of our media and how disastrous those shortcomings are. And I still kind of fundamentally believe what I did as a kid, that it's like a really important job, reporting on conflict, especially for serious people.

• 20:10Robert Evans?

  And there's just not a lot of them doing it, you know, there are, there are some great reporters, obviously, much better than me out there reporting on conflict. But I think the bulk of what gets written about war and genocide and conflict around the world, including, you know, in the United States, protests and the like is bad. And I guess I became aware of that at a pretty young age.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  Just made me think about when I was in college, I took early on in college, I got approval to take a class. I was a freshman. Everyone else was a senior in the class, but the professor, for some reason, let me take it. And it was a psychology of ethics class. And I had to do this report that was like most of what I worked on in that semester. And it was all about,

• 20:56Speaker 02

  you know, the ethics of the insanity defense for mass shooters. And it was right after the Aurora shooting, the movie theater Batman shooting. And I think a lot of that really shaped the way that I thought about people, which I think impacts a lot of our work. So I don't know, it just kind of takes like one class. I feel like sometimes it's just one, one or one assignment really to like influence you creatively.

• 21:28Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, it is. Because when I think back on like my time in school, I can think I can I can only really remember like one teacher, two teachers by name that I had in like the whole 12 years.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:41Robert Evans?

  But I remember moments, kind of more than one, like three or four. But there's a but I do. There are like some moments and really, if for the most part, they were singular moments, like three or four of them that like were absolutely foundational to who I became. Which is always interesting to me, the degree to which like both great like school is just a complete blur. Like I barely remember it. And also, I can point out like three or four moments. So I'm like, well, that changed everything, you know?

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:09Robert Evans?

  I guess that's how it is sometimes.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  It's definitely how it was for me.

• 22:13Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Um, there's several different questions that basically sum up to the same same question from folks that they're asking, who's the oldest bastard in history?

• 22:23Robert Evans?

  The oldest bastard? Like, I'm assuming they mean like chronologically, like the first bastard in history.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was asked several different times.

• 22:33Robert Evans?

  I mean, we certainly don't know his name, right? Like, there, because here's the thing, and this is because I've talked a lot, you know, about like, um,

• 22:46Robert Evans?

  something that gets that anarchists bring up quite frequently, which is how you had a lot of in prehistory among these hunter gatherer tribes, a lot of like extremely egalitarian communities, right? Particularly compared to like a lot of the settled cultures that followed them, right? Where there were was significantly more equality between men and women. There were significantly flatter hierarchies, you know, a lot less power being invested in single individuals. And I talked about

• 23:14Robert Evans?

  in the manifesto episodes about like the that ekung ritual, like the shaming of the meat to like try and stop young men who are hunters from getting too big an ego. Because they think that hunting is all that matters, because it's like the cool sexy job to have, right? And if you're focusing on that, you're ignoring how well, most of our calories come from people like gathering nuts. And a lot of that work gets done by women and also people need clothes. People need tools, all of these things that are just as important as going out and killing a deer. And in fact, necessary precursors, they're a lot less sexy. So if you let like the young hunter boys get, you know, a fucking ego about them because like, well, I'm the one who brought home the meat, then you're ignoring everyone else's contributions. And that makes your, your whole community weaker, right?

• 23:58Robert Evans?

  And it creates the opportunity, at least that one of those young men's going to lose their shit and bring terrible, terrible suffering onto the rest of the community, right?

• 24:08Robert Evans?

  But I think when we talk about that, we talk about all of these different sort of like

• 24:14Robert Evans?

  rituals and like ceremonies and rules that different like societies adopted to deal with the problem of power, to ensure that they had flatter hierarchies, right? There's a tendency then to kind of forget something, which is that those were not, those were not part of those societies because they were more enlightened than modern people, or at least than the people that followed them. It was not like, oh, we, we used to understand how to be good as a society, right? Or as human beings, like we used to have better cultures, we used to be more ethical, we used to treat each other better and we stopped. I think it's more accurate to say like, well, all of those different like rules and, and,

• 24:55Robert Evans?

  and, and practices are evidence of the fact that there's always been a problem with power in human cultures and that individual people taking too much power for themselves has always been a danger and our ancestors recognized that and have throughout the entire history of human events. And some of cultures developed methods of dealing with it, but ultimately we have to assume all of those methods hit points of failure, right? Because those cultures didn't last, right? And they didn't beat out in a lot of cases, the more stratified and hierarchical cultures that followed them. And so, well, I think it's really valuable to look at, here are solutions, different cultures have proposed to the problem of power.

• 25:39Robert Evans?

  The fact that those, they had to come up with so many different solutions is evidence of the fact that that problem is, is kind of universal, right? That hints at a long history of bastards, of individual assholes and codras of assholes that have sought in every kind of society, including ancient hunter-gatherer societies, to try and take much more than their fair share from everybody else, right? And so there's certainly a long prehistory of nameless bastards out there. And I think it behooves us to remember that, both because I am one of those people who says we should be looking at what other older, different cultures developed as ways to deal with the problem of power, without pretending that they definitely had it figured out.

• 26:23Robert Evans?

  Because again, none of that stuff lasted forever, right?

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Right. Let's take another quick break and be back with a couple more questions.

• 26:33Speaker 04

  Cash Flow Crunch. OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 27:03Robert Evans?

  This ad is brought to you by ViiV Healthcare, the makers of Dovato, Dolutegravir, Lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Dovato. Dovato is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Dovato was right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Dovato is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Dovato.

• 27:27Speaker 03

  It is unknown if Dovato is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B. If you have Hep B, don't stop Dovato without talking to your doctor, as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients, or taking Dofetilide due to serious or life-threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop Dovato and get medical help right away. Other serious or life-threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding, or planned pregnancy.

• 28:03Robert Evans?

  Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit dovato.com or call 1-877-844-8872.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  We're back. Robert, do you listen to music while you write scripts for the pod?

• 28:19Robert Evans?

  Yeah, sometimes. I used to do more. I used to listen to more music while I was writing. The last like year or so, I haven't done it as much. I don't know why.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Do you have like, they always ask NBA players, like, what's the song you listen to before game time? Do you have a song you listen to before pod time?

• 28:36Robert Evans?

  I mean, not before recording a podcast. I have like different bands that I listen to while I'm writing more often than others. A different place. One place I used to go a lot is the White Light mixes. If you just type like White Light mixes in, it's like a set of like hour, hour and a half long, like mixes that are meant for people to like drive to. I think that was the initial idea is that these are great for like road trips and stuff. And so different DJs will do like an hour, hour and a half long set that you can kind of zone out to while you're driving. I found them useful over the years for writing a lot. And yeah, that's, that's, I mean, I listen to, I do, I listen to a lot of like live

• 29:19Robert Evans?

  bluegrass shows. For whatever reason, I find that helps me concentrate. Last night, as I was working on what'll be some of the first episodes of 2025, I was listening to Green Sky Bluegrass at Red Rocks. I'll listen to, you know, my ska, Streetlight while I'm, I'm writing. But again, a lot of the last year, I haven't really been listening to much while writing. And I don't really know why. It comes and goes in waves.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Have you ever started an episode on someone commonly known to be a bastard, only to realize you actually agreed with them, or decided they weren't worthy of being a bastard?

• 29:53Robert Evans?

  I mean, like the Bo Brummel episodes, I started thinking like, oh, this is the guy who like ruined men's fashion and did a lot of damage to the psyches of men for generations by locking people into these like, because that's how he gets portrayed a lot. As he invented the suit and made men's fashion boring and made men scared to express themselves through clothing. I don't actually think that's a fair summary of what Bo Brummel did in his life. It certainly was not fair to his intent. I think he was a much more sympathetic person than that. But I also thought, there's a lot of bastardry in that story. Because, I mean, just English culture during the period of time that he was alive was fucking nightmare. So I decided like, well, this is still good for an episode.

• 30:37Robert Evans?

  I have, there's been a couple of like, times not really worth diving into where I've, I've heard like, one story about someone that sucks, like a celebrity or whatever, and I've looked into like, okay, can I get like, an episode? Or is this just, somebody did something shitty once?

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Katy Perry. We want, we talked about doing Katy Perry once.

• 30:56Robert Evans?

  That happened with the Katy Perry episode where I thought this, the whole thing with her and the nuns, there's this like, controversy over this house she was buying.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:05Robert Evans?

  It's not as bad as it seems. Like, I don't, I'm not saying I go into bat for her as a good person, but I don't think she's an interesting subject for an episode.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 31:13Robert Evans?

  Right?

• 31:14Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 31:15Robert Evans?

  Yeah, it's not, it's less that like, I, I don't think I've ever had it like, where, oh no, this person's a hero. Although I do find some things about Bo Brummel to be kind of admirable. But it's more that like, ah, this person just is like, a person who did some shitty stuff. And that's not really a bastard, right? Like, we're not, we're not declaring someone a bastard just because they like, had flaws and did bad. We've all done bad things. We're not all interesting to hear about for two hours.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Which bastard, past or present, would be the best podcast guest to cover a different horrible person?

• 31:48Robert Evans?

  Oh, man. I mean, honestly, I feel like if, if I, if he was alive, I would make fucking $50 million, uh, doing a podcast with L. Ron Hubbard, where I just explain different cults to L. Ron Hubbard, and he critiques them. Like, he explains, ah, no, this is where you fucked up. This is where you went, classic. It would be, it would be the least responsible podcast of all time. I would deserve to go to prison for making that show, because it would just create a new generation of hyper competent cult leaders. But it would be super interesting.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  He's so funny.

• 32:20Robert Evans?

  Just getting LRH on the record, critiquing other cult leaders, because they're all worse than him. He was the best at that.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, 100%. Um, all right, guys. We'll, we'll be back on Thursday to answer more of your questions. Any final thoughts, Robert?

• 32:34Robert Evans?

  Uh, you know, in the new year, fuck it. I don't know. Whatever it is to you, fuck it.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedi.com, or check us out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at Behind the Bastards.

• 33:12Robert Evans?

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