WALL-E with David Ehrlich

Put on your pod-day clothes, there's lots of world out there! We're joined by David Ehrlich to discuss WALL-E this week - a film many consider to be Stanton's (and Pixar's) crowning achievement, and a film David Ehrlich's son has watched upwards of a million times. Join us for a long-ranging conversation that includes context around Disney's 2006 acquisition of Pixar, discussion about the film's depiction of humans, and speculation about the mental health of robots. Read: Frankie Muniz Hasn’t Spoken to Hilary Duff in 22 Years, Says Her Mom Interfered in ‘Agent Cody Banks’ Casting and ‘It Pissed Me Off’: ‘I Regret Not Staying Friends With Her’ https://variety.com/2025/film/news/frankie-muniz-hilary-duff-agent-cody-banks-1236564085/ Check out Erlich’s Review of Lee Cornin’s The Mummy https://www.indiewire.com/criticism/movies/lee-cronins-the-mummy-movie-review-1235189241/ Listen to Griffin on Podcast Like It’s Talking About Monsters Inc. https://shows.acast.com/podcastlikeits1999/episodes/75-monsters-inc-with-griffin-newman Read Ehrlich’s Interview with Stanton https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/wall-e-first-kids-movie-1234785152/ Read Ehrlich’s piece on Alamo Drafthouse https://www.indiewire.com/features/commentary/alamo-drafthouse-sucks-now-1235188253/ Listen to Ben discuss his good friend Johnny5 on The Flop House https://www.flophousepodcast.com/2022/07/episode-375-short-circuit-2-with-ben-hosley/ Cool Dad Raising Daughter On Media That Will Put Her Entirely Out Of Touch With Her Generation https://theonion.com/cool-dad-raising-daughter-on-media-that-will-put-her-en-1819572981/ Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31David Sims?

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 0:33David Sims?

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Griffin Newman?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37David Sims?

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10David Sims?

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39David Sims?

  Computer, define podcasting.

• 1:41Griffin Newman?

  Podcasting, a series of tangents involving two friends where bits and context match harmoniously with bullshit.

• 1:49David Sims?

  What, what's, um? What's being replaced there, especially with bullshit?

• 1:53Griffin Newman?

  The actual line is a series of movements involving two partners where speed and rhythm match harmoniously with music.

• 2:01David Sims?

  Right, the dancing.

• 2:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:03David Sims?

  And we are dancing.

• 2:03Griffin Newman?

  We are dancing.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  A lot of creative liberties taken there.

• 2:05David Sims?

  We're in an eternal dance.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  It's rare that you get quite so much room to free jazz in these intros.

• 2:11David Sims?

  You didn't want to just do.

• 2:13Griffin Newman?

  I thought about it.

• 2:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:15Griffin Newman?

  I mean, this series is called Podsy. And I was like, can I just do the dialogue where they're trying to explain each other's names to each other?

• 2:23Speaker 03

  You were able to sell him on Podsy?

• 2:25Griffin Newman?

  I was.

• 2:26David Sims?

  There's not a lot of options.

• 2:28Speaker 03

  Either in the pod of a cast or as Griffin suggested, Podsy.

• 2:31Griffin Newman?

  Becca Alter, last week's episode, did throw out, would it be funny to just call it Podcaster for John Carter?

• 2:38David Sims?

  Yeah, but we.

• 2:38Griffin Newman?

  And remove.

• 2:39David Sims?

  We can never blow that. We can never do this sort of like, you know what? That's it. It's just called like Podcast.

• 2:45Griffin Newman?

  There's the meta joke there of being like, how did this end up with the title that makes no sense and has zero juice?

• 2:51David Sims?

  You do like a meta joke.

• 2:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but Podsy is.

• 2:54David Sims?

  Fine with it.

• 2:56Griffin Newman?

  If you perform, it's gonna look so good visual with the double D, with those double D's on that fucking artwork there. Podsy.

• 3:03David Sims?

  Make sure Griff has a giant rack on our pod artwork, Pat. No, Ben's wavering on that.

• 3:11Griffin Newman?

  Double D's on that. I want to be a stacked robot or a fucking bodacious fish pet. This is my new character.

• 3:20David Sims?

  And what is it? And what is this character?

• 3:23Speaker 03

  Not even during the Becker talk was I quite as confused.

• 3:26Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna find it by the end of this episode. We're gonna locate this guy and we're gonna figure out what makes him tick. How's Becker doing?

• 3:31David Sims?

  Okay, sorry.

• 3:32Griffin Newman?

  He's coming back, right? He's gotta be coming back.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Listen, Malcolm in the Middle's back.

• 3:36David Sims?

  This is exactly, in the world of like a sequels, they're, they're gonna keep digging until the world collapses.

• 3:42Griffin Newman?

  Becker, colon, life is unfair.

• 3:44David Sims?

  Any interest in Malcolm in the Middle, Life is Unfair? Anyone watching that?

• 3:47Griffin Newman?

  I've heard it's fun.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Once you lose Eric Per Sullivan, I am out.

• 3:51Griffin Newman?

  That is always my favorite thing in the world.

• 3:54David Sims?

  He's just like, no, thank you.

• 3:55Griffin Newman?

  And they're like, everyone's like, they offered him so much fucking money. They were like, this guy's playing such smart hardball. And he's like, I actually just have no interest.

• 4:02David Sims?

  And I'm sure they're offering him so much money to be, to do nothing. Like, it's like, you know, you're just gonna be the seventh guy and you're just gonna go like.

• 4:11Griffin Newman?

  It's just like, no animosity, I love all of you, I wish you all the best. I have no desire to do this again.

• 4:15David Sims?

  Very impressive.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  Someone who has no desire to watch that show. I feel like I understand where he's coming.

• 4:20David Sims?

  I love Malcolm in the Middle, like when it was on, like I was a big fan. It was a show that I tried to re-watch during COVID.

• 4:27Griffin Newman?

  I can't imagine.

• 4:28David Sims?

  In my classic kind of, you know, in the COVID way of like, well, this could be something. And I watched the pilot and I was like, there's nothing wrong with this. Like this is well executed. I remember it fondly.

• 4:38Griffin Newman?

  This is so its moment.

• 4:39David Sims?

  It's, yeah, I'm not feeling a desire to return here. Yes.

• 4:42Griffin Newman?

  There's something telling to me in the fact that Malcolm in the Middle has not had any like Gen Z.

• 4:48David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 4:49Griffin Newman?

  rediscovery.

• 4:50David Sims?

  Right. Despite Cranston's, you know, career.

• 4:54Griffin Newman?

  That it feels like this show is purely nostalgia for those of us who grew up with it.

• 4:58David Sims?

  Which.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm nostalgic for Frankie Muniz's tweets about death.

• 5:05David Sims?

  Frankie Muniz seems.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Like a very well adjusted gentleman.

• 5:08David Sims?

  I was about to say.

• 5:09Speaker 03

  I don't know what you're talking about.

• 5:10David Sims?

  Okay.

• 5:10Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember that period where he was like racing cars and he got in so many car crashes where he was just like.

• 5:15David Sims?

  I have no memories.

• 5:16Griffin Newman?

  Of Malcolm in the Middle.

• 5:18David Sims?

  I do.

• 5:18Griffin Newman?

  And now he's like out there promoting the Malcolm in the Middle reboot. And he was like, it was so nice to get all together again. And I'm like, don't you not know who Frank Cranston is?

• 5:25David Sims?

  It was just that great moment where he was like doing a talk back with Cranston and he was like, by the way, your wife on Breaking Bad, what a shitty character. She's always in his way. And he was like, you realize I was playing like a sociopathic drug dealer, right?

• 5:40Griffin Newman?

  It was so funny to be like Cranston, Anagon, fucking Vince Gilligan. I feel like have been so consistent in talking out against that line of criticism of the show.

• 5:51David Sims?

  He's always been very good, like pushing right back.

• 5:53Griffin Newman?

  Fucking mirror. And to have Cranston there with like his fake TV son and be like glowing and be like, it's so nice to be all together. And then watch the terror on his face where it's like, you have this fucking opinion too?

• 6:08David Sims?

  Not shocking again, that essentially a brain damaged child star would have that opinion. No offense.

• 6:12Speaker 03

  Someone who was not working during the exact years that Reddit began taking over everyone's.

• 6:17Griffin Newman?

  Right. Frank Frankie Muniz's like triple crown of press was, I think Skylar's the villain on Breaking Bad. Two was I made Shia LaBeouf's career. By turning down holes and three was, did I make out with Hilary Duff? I don't know.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  Well, there was also the sub story about how because Hilary Duff's mom insisted that she was going to be in Agent Cody Banks, he blocked her from being in the film because he was like, you're stepping on my turf.

• 6:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  He was like 12.

• 6:50Griffin Newman?

  He is in both of them, is she not?

• 6:53David Sims?

  Certainly in the first.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  Whatever. There was some story recently, some actress's mom, I think it was Hilary Duff.

• 6:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Who was stage momming for her daughter essentially and saying like, oh, she'd be perfect for the lead in whatever your next movie is. And I will admit to not being totally off book on my Frankie Muniz.

• 7:11Griffin Newman?

  Well, let's, because we are doing Frankie Muniz next on Patreon.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 7:15Griffin Newman?

  So it's two Cody Banks.

• 7:16Speaker 03

  Was he in the Bar Mitzvah movie with, uh, Giamatti?

• 7:19Griffin Newman?

  The Bar Mitzvah movie with Giamatti?

• 7:21Speaker 03

  What? Am I intensing movies now that I want to see? Well, it was Piven in the Bar Mitzvah.

• 7:24Griffin Newman?

  That's Keeping Up With The Steins.

• 7:26Speaker 03

  Oh, hmm.

• 7:27Griffin Newman?

  That's, that's, that's Gary Marshall Nepple baby movie. Right?

• 7:31Speaker 03

  That's sort of aspirational Jewish casting. It's like, I wish Giamatti were one of us.

• 7:35Griffin Newman?

  No, Muniz, you got My Dog Skip, you got two Cody Banks, you got Big Fat Liar, and I feel like that's the canon. Right?

• 7:41David Sims?

  It is. It's the American canon.

• 7:43Griffin Newman?

  Do you know what else is really funny? I'm sorry, I'm just remembering this. And it sort of makes more sense now that Muniz is like, well, they were begging me to do holes and I turned it down and like Shia picked up my scraps.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Call it a movie holes. Call movie holes will never not be funny to me. I'm sorry.

• 8:04Griffin Newman?

  Uh, show holes was what kids were demanding to theater owners at the time.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Um, don't like it in that, the way you say it, don't like.

• 8:10Griffin Newman?

  Show holes. Uh, at, I think around the time that Wall Street, uh, Money Never Sleeps came out, Shia did some interview where they were like, you've had five or six consecutive number one openings in a row. Like, are you the guy now? And do you feel worried about maintaining that track record? And he was like, yeah, but like, look at the things I was in. It was like Transformers and Indiana Jones and a Wall Street sequel with Michael Douglas. I'm not taking credit for that. Frankie Muniz could have opened these movies to number one. And I remember that feeling like such a weird burn at the time. I was like, who's got negative juice?

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Shia LaBeouf, our finest comedian, very level-headed movie star.

• 8:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Anyway, go over to our Patreon if you want to hear the films of Muniz.

• 8:56David Sims?

  Muniz.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  From the earth to the muniz.

• 8:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes, that's what we're calling it. That's not what we're talking about here today. Today, we're talking about one of our finest movie stars. His name is Wallacey.

• 9:09David Sims?

  Is it?

• 9:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:10David Sims?

  Okay.

• 9:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, his name's Wallacey. No, he's a waste allocation load lifter earth.

• 9:17David Sims?

  Correct. Waste allocation, load lifter, earth class.

• 9:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Cause later in the film, we see the Waleys.

• 9:23David Sims?

  Yeah, and there's the Bernies and all that, right? There's all the, those are all the guys.

• 9:27Griffin Newman?

  But the Waleys are Axiom class.

• 9:29David Sims?

  Yes, they're big boys.

• 9:30Griffin Newman?

  Of the same, of the same deal, yes.

• 9:32David Sims?

  And they still make cube.

• 9:33Griffin Newman?

  They still make cube.

• 9:34David Sims?

  They make big cube.

• 9:34Griffin Newman?

  This movie about make cube.

• 9:36David Sims?

  This movie is about make cube.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  There should be a Wally that makes hyper cube.

• 9:39Speaker 04

  Garbage cube, let's say.

• 9:41Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  It's an important distinction.

• 9:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:43David Sims?

  But what's the robot, Mo?

• 9:45Speaker 03

  Mo.

• 9:46David Sims?

  Fun guy.

• 9:47Griffin Newman?

  The best performance in the movie?

• 9:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll talk about how my wife sexually identifies as Mo later. We'll, we'll get there in due time.

• 9:54Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Today, on this podcast, which is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I almost fucked up the name of the podcast. It's called Blank Check with Griffin and David Earth Class. I'm Griffin.

• 10:05David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 10:06Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as making one of the 10 highest grossing films of all time, the highest grossing animated film of all time, Fish. He said, what if Fish were lost? And people threw money and Oscars at him? And are given, given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. This certainly classifies. Sometimes those checks clear this movie and sometimes they bounce next week. Maybe.

• 10:31David Sims?

  This is also true.

• 10:32Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it's a mini-series on the films of Andrew Stan. It's called Podsy. Podsy.

• 10:38Griffin Newman?

  And today we're talking about Wally, his, his true blank check. And also it feels like the culmination of like a blank check moment for Pixar at large.

• 10:49David Sims?

  I would say both, correct on both, for sure. Yep. Obviously John Carter is a huge blank check as well, but at least with that one, you can argue like, it is a known property of sorts and blah, blah, blah, you know, whereas this is, it's truly like him being like, I think I want to push my capital on this and Pixar agreeing like, I think we should.

• 11:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. And, and we will get into this, but it's the thing I'm fascinated by endlessly, which is because of the nature of the deal that Pixar had with Disney, a deal that everyone thought was going to end acrimoniously after Cars, the final movie that Pixar owed Disney from a nineties deal. Pixar just started with Steve Jobs's help, self-financing and self-producing movies with no outside interference. There are three movies they just make completely independently, knowing that when the Disney deal is over, everyone is going to want to be in the Pixar business and they just go to the highest bidder. Iger takes over, Eisner leaves, Iger immediately resets the table

• 11:51Griffin Newman?

  and figures out how to make good with Pixar and inherits Ratatouille, Wally and Up, which are the last three movies they make and the only three movies they make with just like zero commercial consideration, zero outside interference, zero studio pressure. And you could feel it even in how these three movies were marketed.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Griffin, you sound like someone who has a vested interest and passion for Pixar, which feels far out of your wheelhouse. This is a surprise to me.

• 12:17Griffin Newman?

  I am, I'm introducing this threat of my interest to our listeners today for the first time. People were like, why the fuck would Blank Check cover Andrew Stanton? Is that a David push?

• 12:28David Sims?

  What? Me?

• 12:29Griffin Newman?

  This is a joke. It's a bit.

• 12:30David Sims?

  Okay, okay.

• 12:31Griffin Newman?

  What were you gonna say?

• 12:32Speaker 04

  Me?

• 12:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 12:33Speaker 04

  I like Wally.

• 12:34Griffin Newman?

  Wally's a really good guy.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  He's awesome.

• 12:37Speaker 04

  I've only grown to like him more.

• 12:39Griffin Newman?

  Producer Ben, have you seen this movie before?

• 12:40Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 12:41Griffin Newman?

  Okay, because this is the era, we found out last week-

• 12:43Speaker 04

  Not a cartoon era for you.

• 12:44Griffin Newman?

  That you hadn't seen Finding Nemo, and this is an era where you were opting out of a lot of the mainstream culture.

• 12:50Speaker 04

  That and just kids' movies I wasn't interested in.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  I feel like Trash Planet is up your alley.

• 12:56Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 12:56Speaker 03

  Trash Planet being the original title.

• 12:58Speaker 04

  But did you see it in theaters? No. Yeah, you caught up with it later.

• 13:02Griffin Newman?

  When do you think you saw it for the first time?

• 13:04Speaker 04

  Um, God, I could not tell you.

• 13:07Griffin Newman?

  I'm just curious if it was like shortly after, or like if you saw it in the last decade for the first time.

• 13:12Speaker 04

  In the last decade.

• 13:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:14Griffin Newman?

  This movie has a lot of Ben shit in it.

• 13:16Speaker 04

  I really relate to Wally.

• 13:18Griffin Newman?

  He's a really good guy.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  I feel-

• 13:20Speaker 03

  Were you ever best friends with a cockroach?

• 13:22Speaker 04

  No.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  Got to try it.

• 13:24Speaker 04

  No.

• 13:24Griffin Newman?

  Not yet.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  I really relate to just being a rusty garbage boy.

• 13:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, our guest today is someone who's made a legitimate bid for most times watching Wally.

• 13:39Speaker 03

  I think, I was thinking about this, I think it's entirely possible, if not probable, that I have watched this movie more than any guest on this show, or host on this show for that matter, has ever watched any of the movies you've covered, with a possible exception being Sims and Ponyo. But I think my son's Wally fixation was so specific and unrelenting that I may, I may have taken that particular crown. Not that I'm proud.

• 14:05Griffin Newman?

  When we finally committed to doing this series, when Toy Story 5 got dated, we just typed you in immediately.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  You're right on the list.

• 14:11Griffin Newman?

  It took months before we even went like, we should ask early, we should just like double check. But there was an extended period where, as you described it to me, my son thinks Wally is movies.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 14:25Griffin Newman?

  He doesn't-

• 14:26Speaker 03

  And he's not wrong.

• 14:26Griffin Newman?

  Understand that there's any other movie that's ever been made.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Correct. We were, we were on a plane and the only way to pacify him was to put something on. What was that?

• 14:39David Sims?

  I said Nirvana over here because they have a song called On A Plane, although of course it's a difference. They mean a plane like.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  We were on Disney's planes.

• 14:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Disney's planes.

• 14:48Speaker 05

  Fire and Rescue.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  Fire and Rescue, a movie I am very glad he has yet to discover. And yeah, we needed to pacify him while he was on the seat back screen, courtesy of Delta. And I think he watched it six or seven times, six, seven, Jesus Christ, before.

• 15:05Griffin Newman?

  We're doing the hands.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  We're doing the hands. And that was it for the next calendar year. Wally, once a day, twice on rainy day.

• 15:11Griffin Newman?

  It was, it was one full year, basically, right?

• 15:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Wally year.

• 15:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes. You probably watched it 500 times or it was in your home 500 times.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  It was.

• 15:20David Sims?

  But you're not always watching.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  I think at a certain point, your eyes glaze over and you actually begin to retain less of the movie than you did originally. It just sort of blurs together as out of self-preservation. But, uh, and you'll find that I think I have less of a handle on the details of this film than someone who's only seen it two or three times.

• 15:37Griffin Newman?

  Because it's been abstracted. It's like a magic eye.

• 15:39David Sims?

  I had a little bit of that re-watching it last night, the same realization.

• 15:42Griffin Newman?

  I did as well. I, I actually had to like make an active effort to kind of re-engage with it. We talk about this sometimes on the podcast. Can I try to watch this movie fresh again? Can I try to like really engage with it rather than take it for granted when it's things I've seen so many times? And I, this movie at the time was the most I had ever seen a film in a theater. It might still be. And I watched so obsessively for years. It might've hit 10. Like it might've. It was certainly eight or nine.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  All right. The only way to watch a movie like this fresh, in my experience anyway, is through the eyes of a child. Especially a child seeing it for the first time, which is what I did with my daughter last night.

• 16:28Griffin Newman?

  Okay, this is what I was hoping.

• 16:29Speaker 03

  Tried to Wally pillow. Uh, we can talk, we can get into that. I don't know if now is the time.

• 16:33Griffin Newman?

  Our guest today, our guest today, and this is unique. This is a kind of competitive advantage he has on this podcast. Our guest today is a film critic named David who has children, who he watches movies with.

• 16:43Speaker 03

  I'm a real poser in the, uh, the David category, although I did have children first, I will say. If someone's copying someone here, it ain't me.

• 16:50David Sims?

  I will never forget. David, I'm sure I've brought this up before, being at the theater to watch Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood.

• 16:58Griffin Newman?

  Hmm, good movie.

• 16:59David Sims?

  A movie I always say I saw in 4DX because I saw it at the Alamo and I ordered a cup of tea and some cookies.

• 17:05Griffin Newman?

  That's good. I rewatched that movie recently.

• 17:07David Sims?

  It's a great movie.

• 17:08Griffin Newman?

  It's really fucking good.

• 17:09David Sims?

  I've always been a fierce defender of that movie.

• 17:11Griffin Newman?

  Same.

• 17:12David Sims?

  So that's Thanksgiving 2019.

• 17:13Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:15David Sims?

  I had helped you bring a snoo up your stairs that day, that morning, I think. Yes.

• 17:21Speaker 03

  It was about seven minutes before we left for the hospital.

• 17:24David Sims?

  You had texted me being like, hey, we really need to get this snoo up the stairs. It's a smart bassinet. It's a, you may, you may find yourself with a snoo one day, Ben, like, who knows? We can talk snoo whenever.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Snoo should advertise on this show. It's a, it's a great product.

• 17:38David Sims?

  I did use snooze myself. And hey, can you bring up the stairs? And then you texted me while I was in the movie, oh, Lord, he coming.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Oh, Lord, he coming. And oh, Lord, he came. A little baby Wally.

• 17:48Griffin Newman?

  You did name him Wally, which kind of maybe forced the issue on it being his favorite movie.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  It's a little bit of nominative determinism. Anyway, say my name, Ben.

• 17:57Griffin Newman?

  David Arlick, bitch.

• 17:58Speaker 03

  Finally, after this parade of no name hacks and losers that you guys have had for guests to start 2026, someone of real cultural importance, someone who had the, the foresight, the gall to tell the world, Lee Cronin's the mummy, not great.

• 18:18Griffin Newman?

  That is what you're gonna be remembered for.

• 18:19David Sims?

  I thought you hadn't seen it.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  I sure have.

• 18:21David Sims?

  Oh, okay.

• 18:21Speaker 03

  Have and reviewed.

• 18:22David Sims?

  And you liked?

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Did not. Did not care for it.

• 18:25David Sims?

  Let me see what you said.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Not a, not a fan.

• 18:28David Sims?

  That's not Lee Cronin-y enough for you?

• 18:30Speaker 03

  Right, that's what I, it did be more.

• 18:32David Sims?

  Underdelivers on Lee Cronin.

• 18:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm missing that Lee Cronin feeling.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  Anyone, any identifiable.

• 18:38David Sims?

  C minus.

• 18:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Look, the obvious position they were in there was. Universal kind of pushed Blumhouse off of the classic monsters, right? Clearly Blumhouse was like, ah, these are all public domain. Can we keep doing our like takes on them? So they set up a Mummy movie at New Line. They don't have the Universal branding. And then they find out that Universal is going to reboot the Brendan Fraser Mummy. When there's already been three different Universal movies just called The Mummy. And their pivot is-

• 19:11Speaker 03

  Was Brendan Fraser in this one? I can't remember.

• 19:13Griffin Newman?

  No. Was to call it Lee Cronin's The Mummy. Why didn't they just call it Mummy?

• 19:18David Sims?

  Yeah. Mummy Reborn. Mummy Reborn, yeah.

• 19:23Griffin Newman?

  If they called it Mummy Reborn, I think it would have like, we have real mummy at home vibes.

• 19:29David Sims?

  Yeah, I think also like-

• 19:30Griffin Newman?

  If they-

• 19:31David Sims?

  Because of the Brendan Fraser convention of, why don't they call it, here's, this, this will distinguish it from Brendan Fraser. The Mummy, Tomb of the Dragon Emperor.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  There's certainly never been a movie by that title-

• 19:41David Sims?

  And put Brendan Fraser's face on the poster, but then be clear in small text, he's not in the film.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  All I could think about watching-

• 19:47David Sims?

  We just admire his work.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Lee Cronin's The Mummy is how hilarious it would be if Brendan Fraser, cinema's biggest goofball, walked into this dire as hell story about child death and possession. It would be like Brendan Fraser walking into like a Serbian film or something.

• 20:01Griffin Newman?

  Well, he's got the guts.

• 20:02Speaker 03

  Hilarious.

• 20:03Griffin Newman?

  He's got the guts.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  He's got the guts.

• 20:04Griffin Newman?

  One of the all time great quotes.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  From, from whom?

• 20:09Griffin Newman?

  From Marty Scorchese. Do you not remember this? When people were asking him about the Fraser casting in Killers of the Flower Moon. And he said he had the look, he had the energy, he had the-

• 20:17Speaker 03

  It's all clicking into place.

• 20:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, today we're talking about Walling.

• 20:20David Sims?

  Walling?

• 20:21Griffin Newman?

  This is one of my favorite movies of all time. This is a movie, and this was the other thing about watching it.

• 20:26David Sims?

  So you think Nemo, perfect.

• 20:28Griffin Newman?

  I do.

• 20:28David Sims?

  But you do prefer this, right?

• 20:30Griffin Newman?

  I was swinging back and forth while watching this. I mean, this movie is, it's just very personal to me. And in a way, watching this, I was like, God, this thing was fucking laser targeted at 20 year old Griffin.

• 20:46Griffin Newman?

  It could not have been more of a like, direct hit. So it was interesting to re-watch it and feel nostalgic for what it meant to that guy at that time. Not that it feels dispersonal, unpersonal now.

• 21:02David Sims?

  Sure.

• 21:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 21:03David Sims?

  Yeah, no, I totally understand. I mean, this was a movie that when it was announced, I was so hyped by the premise that it did, at the time, under-deliver for me.

• 21:12Griffin Newman?

  Oh, see, it over-delivered for me.

• 21:14David Sims?

  Right. I was, my expectations for this were so high that I think I had the experience that a lot of people had at the time that we will talk about, of the second act hitting a little less hard for me and me being like, right, it's a Pixar movie, like, which I love Pixar movies, but I was like, right, fundamental. And I grew to love it much more once my daughter got into it. I had a whole re-love affair with Wally, and now I prefer the second half.

• 21:38Griffin Newman?

  To the fir-, that's interesting.

• 21:40David Sims?

  And I just love it.

• 21:41Griffin Newman?

  You say half, but this is like, it's an even third movie.

• 21:44David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, third, third, third.

• 21:45Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's like, the first third is Earth.

• 21:47David Sims?

  But I prefer the, um, uh, the axiom stuff. But I love it all, to be clear.

• 21:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I love, I love it all, too. We're gonna get into it. But I mean, both of you saw it at the time. I remember.

• 21:59David Sims?

  I saw it at the Village East, I remember.

• 22:02Griffin Newman?

  Similarly, I saw this almost every theater in New York City. But I, I remember even before it was officially announced, there were swirling rumors of Andrew Stanton's next movie is a rom-com about robots in the style of silent comedy. And I was like, that feels fake. There was a nervousness even at like, the rumor of the vibe of the thing. That was so my shit.

• 22:32David Sims?

  Yes, right, right, right.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  Is this movie Steve Jobs' greatest contribution to society?

• 22:38Griffin Newman?

  It's a great question. I was digging through all the Criterion extras. And the only Disney movie in the Criterion collection, certainly the only proper Disney movie with a Disney fucking logo at the top.

• 22:51David Sims?

  That's a great question. I have no idea. Yeah, you might be. Yeah.

• 22:54Griffin Newman?

  I'm like, maybe there's like another like touchstone. Miramax is no longer owned by Disney, but you could say that Disney commissioned at the time.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  This was a à la carte, you know, one off choice.

• 23:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  That did not seem to be a part of the, exactly, of sort of a larger trend.

• 23:07Griffin Newman?

  Although, who knows? Fucking Disney just laid off, shut down its entire home media department in order to replace it with Wally's. But what was I saying here? Oh, there's a thing on the Criterion Desk where he said, when he was running things by Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs' biggest question slash note was, what is the business model that makes sense for Axiom to be running the Starliner?

• 23:33David Sims?

  Oh, I mean, I've had this question.

• 23:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 23:36David Sims?

  Of like.

• 23:36Speaker 03

  Profiting.

• 23:37David Sims?

  Right. Like, how does this work 700 years in? And I always just kind of like settle on like, well, they just want to be alive. So this self perpetuating and they just kind of.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, but Steve Jobs, who never designed anything that did not fail after five years.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  By design.

• 23:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 23:54Speaker 03

  Would never develop a spaceship that lasted for seven centuries.

• 23:57Griffin Newman?

  Correct. Correct. And it's obviously, it's still a like, a highly consumerist culture.

• 24:03David Sims?

  Right.

• 24:03Griffin Newman?

  But you're not seeing transactions.

• 24:05David Sims?

  How?

• 24:05Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, who's getting the money from this?

• 24:07David Sims?

  Where does the money go?

• 24:08Griffin Newman?

  Right. That's what's fascinating about it.

• 24:10David Sims?

  But I mean, I don't think there is money.

• 24:11Griffin Newman?

  No, I agree with you.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  You have to think of the Axiom as sort of the Apple Store and all of the transactionality is happening sort of within.

• 24:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 24:18Speaker 03

  And the Apple Stores do tend to hold up against wear and tear, I suppose.

• 24:22David Sims?

  I feel like it's more just like the Axiom built these ships for profit long ago.

• 24:27Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me, B and L bought the ships.

• 24:28David Sims?

  Sorry, B and L built the Axiom ships for profit long ago. They made the money. The ships took off.

• 24:33Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 24:33David Sims?

  But then after that, right, of course, like, human commerce ceased to exist.

• 24:38Griffin Newman?

  Because they assumed they would actually get back to Earth.

• 24:40David Sims?

  Sure.

• 24:40Griffin Newman?

  And whatever transactions they made on the Axiom would then translate back to a world with whatever fucking digital fiat currencies.

• 24:48David Sims?

  What did they eat, though?

• 24:50Speaker 04

  On the ship.

• 24:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they have the food in a cup.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  They're not growing anything.

• 24:55David Sims?

  No, it's all just fucking, yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 04

  Just like goop.

• 24:58David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 24:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, pizza in a cup, whatever. It does raise the question when you see in the movie, the sort of like advertisements for the new products or like everyone's switching from red to blue or whatever. You're like, is that one loop that's been repeating for 200 years? Is the thing just fully stuck in like?

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Every generation switches from red to blue.

• 25:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 04

  Someone also.

• 25:19Griffin Newman?

  Or it happens like once a week or once a year.

• 25:21David Sims?

  Someone did the math also that humans basically live like 160, 180 years on the axiom because of the amount of captains there have been.

• 25:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 25:29David Sims?

  Like you see the sort of.

• 25:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 25:31David Sims?

  List of them.

• 25:31Griffin Newman?

  Cause is it 750 years?

• 25:33David Sims?

  Some 700 plus years.

• 25:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 25:35David Sims?

  Uh, explained by microgravity where you would have no stress on your muscles or your organs.

• 25:40Griffin Newman?

  Your bones get a little.

• 25:41David Sims?

  Right.

• 25:42Speaker 03

  I have so much stress on my bones. Um, yeah, I mean, it does. It, that, that Steve Jobs note and his involvement in this movie to begin with, does sort of speak to the commerciality that was at the heart of the Pixar ethos in a way that I, like all of their movies, particularly early on, you know, thinking about Toy Story, Monsters, Inc. And now Wally, which is sort of, uh, sort of a auto commentary on all this are rooted in precepts of capitalism in a way that I always found as sort of not a barrier to entry, but like a, a low ceiling on how much I could love them. It was just, they were so distinctly American in that way.

• 26:18Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 26:18Speaker 03

  And as opposed to something like the obvious comparison of like Studio Ghibli, which just were more of an invitation to wonder for me. And I think Wally, which is so rooted in wonder, if anything, is an act of trying to reclaim that and merge it with the capitalistic impulse.

• 26:33Griffin Newman?

  Well, you're also forgetting that a fucking A Bug's Life is about communism and collective action.

• 26:38Speaker 03

  I mean, Bug's Life, you know, a remake of Seven Samurai, but even, you know, even that is uh, uh, maybe further afield from.

• 26:46Griffin Newman?

  No, but you're right. It was a lot of the Pixar thing was putting adult structures onto fantastical characters in children's films. Like I, I went on our, our friends, uh, Emily St. James and Philip Isco's podcast, uh, podcast, Like It's and did a Monsters, Inc. episode with them. I think came out earlier this year. I, I was like, this movie is a kind of like ground zero for a thing that becomes a cancer in children's films, which is what if magical thing was a business? And Monsters Inc. still is the one that's done it the best.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  But also Toy Story says, what if business was a magical thing? And so it is sort of rooted in Pixar.

• 27:28Griffin Newman?

  Right. What if the dynamics of your toys talked like bored, sort of like office workers? And yeah, yeah. And then this movie is the one that's sort of, I mean, I remember the amount of reviews at the time that were like, this message is nice, but also every store is littered with Wally merch. This movie's being released by Disney.

• 27:47David Sims?

  This is true.

• 27:48Griffin Newman?

  You know, it has a happy meal, like tie-in and shit.

• 27:50David Sims?

  Of course, yes. But if you want to make a $180 billion movie, right? You're probably gonna have to sell some toys.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  But the call is coming from inside the house. Twas ever thus with capitalism. Ask Boots Riley.

• 28:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but you're right that the, the framework is different in that this is a movie of like, someone trying to break down that system and that structure.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, or at least look for the cracks in it to, you know, have opportunities for, for wonder to sort of bridge. I mean, this movie is in many ways, which talk about sort of bridging to worlds. And I think in this particular regard, it's bridging the world of, of art and commerce in that sense, which is was obviously implicit to everything that Pixar does, but this is doing it a little bit more literally. But yeah, they, you gotta eat, you know, these movies are made for profit.

• 28:35David Sims?

  You gotta eat.

• 28:36Griffin Newman?

  Wally.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  Unless you're Wally, you could just drink up those sweet, sweet sun rays. They flow, they fly too close to the sun, which famously, not something you should do.

• 28:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but it helps them recharge really quickly.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  Quickly.

• 28:48David Sims?

  Boom. It starts, of course, with lunch. Wow. JJ's getting like, kind of narrative with his research docs these days. Lunch at the Hidden City Cafe in Port Richmond, Point Richmond, near the headquarters of Pixar.

• 29:02Griffin Newman?

  Famously the teaser trailer for this movie.

• 29:04David Sims?

  I remember this teaser trailer and I was excited for this movie. I was like jerking a big dick watching. I was just like, get the fuck out of here.

• 29:11Griffin Newman?

  Do you know about this, Ben?

• 29:13David Sims?

  No.

• 29:13Griffin Newman?

  So, speaking of Disney, like, making the deal, inheriting these three Pixar movies that they had no say in, and it's like, good luck, your next three movies to market are a movie about a French rat who believes in high cuisine, right? At a time where, like, Americans did not fucking care about food, a silent robot comedy, and an old, a grumpy old man whose wife died in a flying house. And they're like, the fuck are we gonna do with these? And the Ratatouille teaser trailer famously has the thing where it spells out the title phonetically, and it's all like a made up scene of the character direct addressing the camera, explaining to you what the premises, because they were like, fuck are we gonna do with this? And then the Wally teaser trailer is Andrew Stanton talking about this experience at

• 29:58Griffin Newman?

  the Hidden City Cafe. Like, the trailer only has, like, 20 seconds of animation footage in it? It is basically all trying to explain to you, trust us, we're Pixar.

• 30:09Speaker 03

  Is that the trailer where they have the Brazil music?

• 30:12Griffin Newman?

  Um, I think so, yeah.

• 30:14David Sims?

  Anyway, it talks about, it was Lassiter, Doctor, Joe Ranft, him, and they hammer up Bugs Life Monsters, Finding Nemo, and then the last one they talked about was Wally.

• 30:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes, so, basically, they're in production on Toy Story. They're like, should we be coming up with other ideas in case this thing's a hit? And they ask us what our next movie is, we shouldn't be unprepared. So they sit at this one lunch, and all of those movies come out of that one lunch. Obviously not fully formed, but that's what they're fucking framing in the teaser.

• 30:44David Sims?

  In fact, let me tell you, right, Stanton's actual report on that slightly massaged kinda advertised version.

• 30:50Griffin Newman?

  But the massage of the teaser is, this is the most magical lunch of all time.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  I'll have what she's having, am I right?

• 30:55David Sims?

  Yeah, what did they eat?

• 30:56Griffin Newman?

  Every movie that came out of this has been beloved, trust us, this is the final movie from that.

• 31:01David Sims?

  They drank story juice.

• 31:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure, sure.

• 31:04David Sims?

  And they, they ate movie sandwiches. Um, so Stanton has said, look, we had ideas that inspired those movies, obviously, we did not, like, come up with a bunch of finished things there.

• 31:15Griffin Newman?

  It was like, it'd be fun to have bugs, what if you make a movie about, like, monsters in children's bedrooms? Yeah.

• 31:21David Sims?

  He said, the bulk of the lunch was a Bugs We truly came up with a large chunk of the movie in that lunch. And then probably the second most concrete idea, even though it was half baked, was the last robot on earth. A machine left running, not sure what to do with itself idea. There was no name, no storyline. It was really just a character, but we liked the character. Like we liked that idea. We're in the middle of Toy Story and we have been really struggling to make Woody appealing. So I think they were really into this kind of like Robinson Crusoe robot because they're like, that's appealing. That's like a good guy.

• 31:53Griffin Newman?

  You're already rooting for that.

• 31:54David Sims?

  Exactly. Yeah. Although also a little sad, kind of a sad, because I remember saying to a friend of mine when I was like really hyped for this movie before. I was like, it's about like a garbage robot that like earth is just a pile of garbage and everyone's gone and he just keeps. And he was like, that sounds so depressing. And I was like, right, but like, that's crazy, right? Isn't that cool? Like, so the film was initially called Trash Planet.

• 32:19Griffin Newman?

  Trash Planet, Ben.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  I mean, I like Wally's a good title, but Trash Planet really draws you in.

• 32:25David Sims?

  The pitch was Pete Docter's. Andrew inherits it.

• 32:29Griffin Newman?

  There was basically a Yankee.

• 32:30David Sims?

  Just like the very, very basic pitch.

• 32:33Griffin Newman?

  For a period of time Stanton was trying to crack Monsters, Inc. And Doctor was trying to do Wally. And then they end up swapping and Stanton ends up also coming up with Finding Nemo, which then supersedes.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Thank God they switched. If Doctor had done it, there would have been like a droid named loneliness and he would have been like, you know, there would have.

• 32:51Griffin Newman?

  But that's why Doctor gets the co-story credit because he basically was the one who incubated a very different version of this first.

• 32:57David Sims?

  So Stanton's working on Nemo. He starts dreaming of Trash Planet again.

• 33:01Griffin Newman?

  It basically becomes his like Barton Fink to his Miller's Crossing while he's working on Nemo. Where when he's hit a wall, he's like, let me, let me noodle on this and type some shit out. He said basically that the first act, his quote, fell from the sky. He was like, that felt like so complete to me.

• 33:17David Sims?

  Right. What do I do?

• 33:18Griffin Newman?

  And then I never knew what to do. Once he leaves.

• 33:20David Sims?

  Then he's like, well, the opposite of loneliness is love, so it should be a love story. Okay. He was seduced by this idea of like, he falls in love with another machine. Okay. So where did the machine come from? Right? What does that machine have interest in? Now, this is, as you've noted, the man is religious. The greatest commandment Christ gives us is to love. But that's not always our priority.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  Us is doing a lot of heavy lifting then.

• 33:45David Sims?

  So I came up with this premise that could demonstrate what I was talking about, that irrational love could defeat programming, right? You got these two robots with the base directive, but then the love kind of overrides it.

• 33:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 33:55David Sims?

  This is what he's saying, not me.

• 33:57Griffin Newman?

  No, I, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm gonna sit on my, my read on this movie for a moment.

• 34:02David Sims?

  Okay. So, you know, obviously this is a risky thing. They are a little worried. They do have the blank check status of Pixar's huge success and especially Nemo's huge success that like, I think Stanton can sort of ask essentially what he did, which is like, can you leave me alone? Can I try to write it? Like, let's not do the sort of big edit room, like together or whatever. And, you know, like, can I write like an original sci-fi movie? He loves sci-fi movies. Alien, Star Wars.

• 34:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes, these are big.

• 34:34David Sims?

  2001?

• 34:36Griffin Newman?

  I've seen them.

• 34:37David Sims?

  Eventually Jim Reardon, who's a Simpsons guy.

• 34:40Griffin Newman?

  He directed many of.

• 34:41David Sims?

  Comes in to co-write.

• 34:42Griffin Newman?

  The best Simpsons episodes of all time.

• 34:43David Sims?

  Such as what?

• 34:44Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he directed King Size Homer.

• 34:48David Sims?

  King Size Homer, you know what? King Size Homer is pretty funny.

• 34:52Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna give you a list in a second, cause it's actually astonishing.

• 34:54David Sims?

  No, it's often just amazing when you see those Simpsons vets where you're like, oh my God, everything I did is amazing. And you're like, of course.

• 35:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 35:00David Sims?

  Everything the Simpsons did was amazing.

• 35:03Griffin Newman?

  He kind of had a reputation for a while. Uh, he was a Cal Arts guy as well of being the best, um, animation, uh, comedy writer of his generation. He became more of a writer guy, but then he directs many Simpsons. He worked on the Mighty Mouse cartoon under Ralph Bakshi with Stanton, which is where they became friends. His big breakout was his student film was called Bring Me The Head Of Charlie Brown. That was a Peck and Pa version of Peanuts. That was semi-viral in a tape trading kind of era.

• 35:34David Sims?

  Right, yeah.

• 35:35Griffin Newman?

  Um, uh, episodes he directed, if I can just fucking like.

• 35:38David Sims?

  Give me a couple.

• 35:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Itchy and Scratchy and Marge, Bart's Dog Gets An F, Brush With Greatness, When Flanders Failed, Trio Support 2, Homer At The Bat, Dog Of Death, Bart's Friend Falls In Love, Homer The Heretic, Mr. Plow, Duffless, Margin Change, Homer Goes To College.

• 35:52David Sims?

  Oh God.

• 35:53Griffin Newman?

  Like insane lineup.

• 35:54David Sims?

  Homer At The Bat is huge for me.

• 35:55Griffin Newman?

  Bart, Bart Of Darkness.

• 35:57David Sims?

  Bart Of Darkness is so fucking good. Lemon Of Troy is so good.

• 36:00Griffin Newman?

  He directed like a lot of the best ones from the best era.

• 36:03David Sims?

  The Simpsons.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  It was a good show.

• 36:06David Sims?

  It was.

• 36:06Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  It was people like it.

• 36:07Griffin Newman?

  It's a shit. What did they? It ended, I guess, in 90.

• 36:10David Sims?

  99, yeah.

• 36:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 36:13David Sims?

  So, yeah, they have the idea of Eva, Eve.

• 36:16Griffin Newman?

  Right. He brings Reven in.

• 36:17David Sims?

  Yeah, like she's like got this idea, this sort of sleek futuristic techno robot. This sort of the opposite.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  But if you fall in love with an iPod.

• 36:25David Sims?

  First version wasn't set on Earth.

• 36:28Griffin Newman?

  Oh, interesting.

• 36:28David Sims?

  It was just a trash planet. Like, we don't know what. Steve Jobs is the one like, I think you should set it on Earth. Like, I think you should have a little bit more of a commentary here.

• 36:38Griffin Newman?

  I saw there was a thing he said in the Kriti and Disc where he was like, when I made this movie, I did not want to comment on or engage with humanity at all. When I was like.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Relatable.

• 36:48Griffin Newman?

  Developing it. I was like, the whole appeal to me is like isolated robot, outer space, remove ourselves, distance ourselves from this. And people kept kind of noting it in a way that brought it back to needing some human connection to make sense of the movie.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  Now, is he identifiably in New York City or is Wally just been inspired by the architecture of New York somewhere deep in his coding to build a New York City out of cube trash?

• 37:13Griffin Newman?

  I think it's the latter.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:16David Sims?

  So it takes them a long time to get the second half right. Blah, blah, blah. The iPhone comes out in 2006. He was one of the first people to get one because.

• 37:24Griffin Newman?

  He had an.

• 37:24David Sims?

  Jobs gave him one. And through playing around with the iPhone, the sort of addictive quality of like a smartphone, he comes up with the kind of like humans addicted to screens, living in the axiom, like.

• 37:37Griffin Newman?

  He said also, like, when I first got one and started playing around with it, I was like, I have not felt this since cigarettes.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  It's crazy because I feel like so much of what was compelling about the iPhone in back in 2007 was like the social cachet because there was very little to do on it.

• 37:51David Sims?

  There was less to do, but we made do with whatever layman.

• 37:54Speaker 03

  It was so far.

• 37:55David Sims?

  I didn't get an iPhone until 2012. I had a BlackBerry.

• 37:59Griffin Newman?

  You were a BlackBerry guy.

• 38:00David Sims?

  I was a BlackBerry guy, for sure. Yeah. I mean, it was a work thing. Like, yeah.

• 38:03Griffin Newman?

  It was a work thing?

• 38:04David Sims?

  Yeah. Well, like my job gave me one. I was.

• 38:06Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, oh.

• 38:07David Sims?

  I have a little BlackBerry.

• 38:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 38:09David Sims?

  Um, little keys. Do, do, do, do, do. Stanton says, I'm not making a comment on obesity. I'm trying to just make everyone a big baby. Like, the idea of the, of the humans on the axiom is not that they ate too much. It's that they have turned into babies.

• 38:22Griffin Newman?

  Well, okay. So let me, let me get into another thing here because, because there's the thing we, we sort of skipped over. Originally, he doesn't want it to be Earth. And then there was an extended era. They only make this change, like I think about two years before the movie comes out. It was supposed to be a ship of like green gelatinous blobs who didn't speak English. There were two different versions of it. I don't know which one came first, but at one point it was truly like they are aliens. They have sent-

• 38:51David Sims?

  They were gel people who spoken a language like that was like Monty Python, sort of Ikea speak or whatever.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Which was teeing up a Planet of the Apes ending.

• 39:00David Sims?

  And the-

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Turns out that-

• 39:01David Sims?

  Near the end of the film, it would reveal that they were once humans.

• 39:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 39:04David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  So I-

• 39:05David Sims?

  Like a Planet of the Apes style.

• 39:06Griffin Newman?

  He talks about like, there was a version where it was like they were truly, truly impartial aliens. The implication is that humans died off and now these aliens have abducted these robots and trying to study, you know, extinct cultures, right? And that they have a bunch of robots and the movie was like a robot Spartacus, as they put it, where the robots are second-class citizens under the aliens and Wally becomes like a figure of the uprising.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  But would it be that they're evolved?

• 39:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, so then there was a different version. I don't know which one came first, where it was the blobs are the devolved versions of humans. That is the twist that we've devolved that much and that they don't even remember or understand that they're connected to that lineage. And that's what Wally helps connect them with. And they like got very far along in that. There are like animation models that were built and they had written the whole sort of version of that and done the story reels of it. And they were just like it, the lift became so hard and heavy to get audiences to connect with the blobs who aren't speaking. It is this thing for me where I'm like, I accept and I buy they just tried and couldn't

• 40:18Griffin Newman?

  pull it off. But the second I heard that I was like, Jesus Christ, if they had made that work, it would have been astonishing.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  Listen, I say this as someone who has never found a blob that I haven't been able to connect with.

• 40:28Griffin Newman?

  We love blobbies.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Uh, sure to, especially Blobby, the OG. Uh, but best of Blobby, one of the most important pieces of media-

• 40:35David Sims?

  Very important.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  That Griffin introduced me to. Um, but I think it's just thematically, it doesn't really- Square because it you implicitly, there's no reason to assume that being blob is worse than being human.

• 40:46David Sims?

  Right. They need to be babies. I like I said, the it's the axiom stuff is what I like more these days.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  They need to be helpless. They need to have like learned helplessness.

• 40:54Griffin Newman?

  But the iteration was like, right, audiences aren't connecting to this. Maybe we have them talk. It's hard for the audiences to connect to the blobs to make them feel like distinct, different characters. There was an era where it was like aristocracy. There was like a king and a queen and a prince.

• 41:09Speaker 03

  There was a royal wedding.

• 41:10Griffin Newman?

  Modern structures. And then they're sort of like, let's put a nose on the blob. What if they're not green, but they're like flesh colored, you know? And then it slowly evolved into the baby thing. And in doing the kind of like classic Pixar research, he spoke to a scientist who said, like, if multiple generations of humanity were to live in space, they wouldn't just have their muscles atrophy, their their actual physical composition would change.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Do you see the video of the astronaut? I mean, we're recording this in the middle of April, but they people just came back from the moon or going around the moon. And they had the video of the astronaut who hadn't walked on Earth in 10 days, just 10 days. And she could not pull herself along the parallel bars. She needed to be supported by like.

• 41:52Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. So it's like, if you're the like seventh generation born into space, you you don't need like muscles anymore. You don't need your bones have just sort of like shrunk within your body. They're big babies.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Fortunately, uh, technology has not had any sort of negative effect along those lines on us.

• 42:10Griffin Newman?

  No, it's.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  This movie has turned out to be not prophetic at all.

• 42:12Griffin Newman?

  It's the problem with this movie is it got it all wrong. We solved everything.

• 42:16David Sims?

  They also can figure out the ending. Or for a while, it was always going to be like, he has to give her his like heart battery. There was like a sacrifice. They never liked it. Finally, they had more the idea of like, he loses his memory is the kind of crisis at the end.

• 42:30Griffin Newman?

  Need to interject with this because it's another just kind of like fascinating Stanton story cracking moment like the Finding Nemo Barracuda thing. And all of this is important setup to John Carter, where he breaks his own story roles in several ways I've never been able to understand. You know, they watched a lot of silent comedies and they watched a lot of Chaplin and Lloyd. And Buster Keaton especially because I would argue that Wally is most closely aligned with the Buster Keaton character types.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Even if the movie, I think leans more towards modern, not modern, there is a lot of modern times in it, but also city lights.

• 43:05Griffin Newman?

  It's like a Chaplin movie with a Buster Keaton character. And he said, the thing we, we kept trying to figure out what Wally's emotional arc was. And trying to force one and what's his growth and how does he change? And then we started looking at those movies and it's like very often Buster Keaton is an unchanging figure in the center of things. And what he does is subtly affect everyone else around him.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  Sure. What is Stoneface but of metal?

• 43:28Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. And so he kept being like, well, Wally has to like become empowered by the end of the movie. He has to save Eve. He has to become the dominant one. It is one of the latest major changes in a Pixar film. Because the last 20 minutes were basically completely animated. And they did a test screening where they hadn't done final lighting passes and whatever. And it wasn't even a note he got back, but he watched it with the audience. And I think it's on the disc.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  There was one guy in the mall in Arizona who was like, yeah, what if, what if Wally falls asleep?

• 44:01Griffin Newman?

  What if Eva was a girl boss? She had to save him. But there's a, there's a clip of him going to the Pixar team and being like, guys, I'm so sorry. I'm about to ask you to do an insane amount of work. We have to redo the entire last 20 minutes. And usually it never gets that far. You, you identify those issues at a storyboard phase. But it was completed physical animation. There are scenes in the trailers. From that version of the movie, you can see that aren't in the final film. Which like shit never gets cut that finished. But yeah, he was like, it has to be inverted. It has to be that his worldview has actually affected her enough that she needs to pick up his mission and carry it out.

• 44:42Griffin Newman?

  But you can see the, like a lot of the extended deleted footage of Eva's like battery's been fried. And Wally has to save her and he's flying around with her at the end.

• 44:53David Sims?

  Stanton, very shy about any kind of like. Topical discussions, not interested in talking about global warming, like sort of dismisses a lot of the environmental stuff because he's like, I don't have a political band. The last thing I want to do is preach. Like all this just sort of made sense for my story. Asked about consumerism. He's like, yes, there's lots of things disconnecting us from each other and that are consumerist. But the reason I made them look like big babies because it was like a Nastic, I told me, you know, that's what they would look like. Bob, you know, like he, he's like, the last thing I'm trying to do is make a message movie. Like he's very, whether or not you want to take this away from him, he's sort of seemingly uninterested in addressing that.

• 45:34Griffin Newman?

  Wait, that's so weird, though.

• 45:36David Sims?

  I agree.

• 45:37Griffin Newman?

  I mean, can I?

• 45:38David Sims?

  That's not my job.

• 45:39Griffin Newman?

  May I give my read on that for a second?

• 45:41David Sims?

  Sure.

• 45:41Griffin Newman?

  Because this Criterion Disc came out in 2022, right? And that is this framework of now here is an adult cineast physical media package with curated supplemental material to like frame this within an intellectual conversation. And the new material on the Criterion Disc is so much more pointed and transparent.

• 46:05Griffin Newman?

  There was a lot of, I have to imagine Disney inheriting this movie. And I think it's what's fascinating about watching this movie now, where like the greatest concern was a kind of like an anti-intellectualism and an apathy. That's what culture is falling into. And that anything in this movie that could have been seen as elitist or critical of an American apathy would have become like a fucking talking point.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Right. Because apathy would become Disney's lifeblood over the last 10 years or so in the live action remake era.

• 46:39Griffin Newman?

  It does feel like there was a little bit of at the time, you cannot fucking politicize this movie, right?

• 46:46David Sims?

  I think so. I mean, a lot of these interviews are also from like Christianity Today in like 20.

• 46:50Speaker 03

  That's what the outlet I was working for when I spoke to him in 2022. I talked to him, not for Christianity Today, for around the time the Blu-ray came out. And he was very receptive to talking about the sort of political valences of the film.

• 47:01David Sims?

  The more recent interviews, it seems like he will be like, I mean, of course I do get a lot of boxes from Amazon and wonder.

• 47:08Griffin Newman?

  He said that was one of the main activating things was like.

• 47:10David Sims?

  He said that in 2020.

• 47:11Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 47:12David Sims?

  He didn't say it at the time.

• 47:13Griffin Newman?

  No, no.

• 47:14David Sims?

  He softened up a little bit.

• 47:16Griffin Newman?

  I did buy that he wasn't like. Trying to grind axes with this movie. And I think you hear him talk about organically how the story locks into place. But also it was coming out of personal observations. Wow, I got a smartphone. I'm addicted to this. I now there's a website that sells everything. My house is filled with boxes.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, my sense talking to him was that all those things are true, but I do feel like the socio-political commentary sprang out of what you were talking about earlier, which is this like deep rooted love for the movies, the early movies in particular, and the movies that were formative for him, where he really sort of sprang to life, which was very convenient for my purposes, was talking about the movie as a expression of the joys of parenting, as the act of, you know, we were talking about a bridge earlier, so like the act of taking something from one generation, showing it to another, robots acting like humans to teach humans how to stop acting like robots, the transference

• 48:15Speaker 03

  of going from consuming everything as Wally's done for hundreds of years to displaying that, to showing that to someone else, which is a completely revelatory and transformational experience for him.

• 48:39David Sims?

  David?

• 48:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 48:43David Sims?

  Is that the Cineas cow?

• 48:45Griffin Newman?

  The Cineas cow is back.

• 48:46David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 48:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 48:52David Sims?

  Okay.

• 48:53Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp My Asthma.

• 48:57David Sims?

  Wow.

• 48:58Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 49:00David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up. While you tell the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 49:06Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company, bringing great cinema to the world and to you, curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 49:18David Sims?

  Yes.

• 49:18Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorite movies of the year.

• 49:20David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 49:21Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 49:27David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 49:28Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburg, Past and Future Guest.

• 49:30David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest.

• 49:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 49:34David Sims?

  Great friend.

• 49:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 49:36David Sims?

  This movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 49:41Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 49:42David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 49:44Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 49:45David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 49:47Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 49:48David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 49:49Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 49:50David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Paul McCann. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on movie.

• 50:00Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 50:14David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 50:19Griffin Newman?

  What happens? It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 50:30David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on movie and you can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 50:43Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 50:48David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 50:54Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 50:54David Sims?

  Yes.

• 50:55Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in shop cash.

• 50:59David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 51:04Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 51:06David Sims?

  And now 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in shop cash just in time for the holidays.

• 51:13Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 51:22David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe the sickest luxury items. Cookware to kicks, toys to high tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay, that's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 51:45Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score sweet deals and check out fast all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 52:16Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 52:17David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 52:17Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me. It's cozy season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 52:25David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 52:26Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 52:33David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. Uh, they've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 52:39Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:40David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 52:46Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm going to sacrifice comfort.

• 52:50David Sims?

  No.

• 52:51Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 52:51David Sims?

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• 53:40Speaker 04

  Wally.

• 53:41David Sims?

  Uh, so, uh, in the screenplay, obviously, I guess you guys probably only know this, but I'll tell you anyway, like, the dialogue is written, even if the characters don't speak. So he would say, like, in brackets, like, here's what Wally's trying to say. And then, obviously, later, they put in, you know, all their little noises. Ben Burt.

• 53:58Griffin Newman?

  The great Ben Burt.

• 54:00David Sims?

  The legend, Ben Burt.

• 54:01Griffin Newman?

  Ben Burt is, uh, Ben, uh, Hosley, uh, the man who, like, invented the entire Star Wars soundscape, among many other things, but one of Lucas's closest collaborators. And, you know, just, these things we take for granted of just, like, droid languages and lightsabers and the sounds of ships.

• 54:21David Sims?

  Created that probably with a Moog, like, analog synthesizer.

• 54:26Griffin Newman?

  There's another great thing on, on one of the Blu-ray releases, that's a breakdown of, like, how many people at Pixar have to touch one single shot of a movie, like, how many different departments work on it. And they cut to Ben Burt explaining what his contribution is. And he was like, "I was trying to find the right sound for this movie, for this, uh, shot. And then I remembered that in around 1997, I'd gone and done some recordings of Niagara Falls." And it's very, uh, indicative of how Ben Burt works, which is, he just kind of fucking collects sounds.

• 55:00David Sims?

  Right. Always collecting sounds.

• 55:02Griffin Newman?

  Right. So there are things that he would sort of just, like, construct, but more often, he just was constantly building a sound library and then being like, "Oh, you know what'd be interesting? What if the sound of this ship is this plus this?"

• 55:15Speaker 03

  What if he was collecting sounds one night and collected the sound of a mer?

• 55:18Griffin Newman?

  I mean, this is the question. And David.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  Did he, did he invent, uh, did he invent robot bleeps and bloops being cute? Because we had bleeps and bloops. We had forbidden playing.

• 55:28David Sims?

  Let me tell you.

• 55:29Griffin Newman?

  I, I, I would agree with you that no bleep.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  But he made them cute.

• 55:32Griffin Newman?

  Bleep itself, I think, was not cute until R2-D2.

• 55:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 55:36Speaker 04

  Right?

• 55:36David Sims?

  I don't know. Yes, I think so. I would love to look at a list of like history's robots. Like, you know, who was there? It's like Robbie's not that cute.

• 55:44Speaker 04

  All right, I'll look up best bleep loops.

• 55:46David Sims?

  Okay, so during, while they're preparing this, Andrew Stanton keeps saying like, I need this to be like R2-D2. And finally, Jim Morris, who is the former president of ILM, who now works at Pixar, says, do you want to just get Ben Burt, like the guy who did R2-D2?

• 56:01Griffin Newman?

  Which is basically the equivalent of like casting Tom Cruise in your movie. It's like, this is your main actor, basically. Not only does he literally end up being the model for the voice of Wally, but it's like, this is the guy who's going to figure out whether or not your entire movie works. If he can make these compelling and distinct.

• 56:17David Sims?

  Now, Ben Burt, as he puts it, had just finished what he considered a basically 30-year tour of duty making Star Wars movies and was not that enthused about robots.

• 56:26Griffin Newman?

  He was coming right off of Revenge of the Sith?

• 56:28David Sims?

  Yeah, he'd just been working on the prequels for so long and was like, I just don't want to do any more robots. But that kind of Capra romance, Buster Keaton hero thing.

• 56:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:39David Sims?

  That's an interesting challenge. And, you know, the idea also of like, they're going, it's just, they're mostly communicating with each other. So bridging the sort of robot communication gaps, right? Like, which is sort of like the R2-3PO thing.

• 56:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:55David Sims?

  He likes that.

• 56:56Griffin Newman?

  But you're removing the...

• 56:58David Sims?

  The humans going like, what?

• 56:59Griffin Newman?

  You know? Well, and also, like...

• 57:01David Sims?

  I mean, they come in.

• 57:02Griffin Newman?

  You know, C-3PO is human cyborg relations. His job is to fucking translate things. And it's like, what if you're not translating it? And how do you still make it read to the audience?

• 57:11David Sims?

  What a crazy guy that guy is.

• 57:13Griffin Newman?

  Ben Burt?

• 57:13David Sims?

  Uh, C-3PO, but yeah, sure, Ben Burt.

• 57:15Speaker 03

  C-3PO, there's a guy who could use a crush, am I right?

• 57:19David Sims?

  I don't think, I think that would just make him anxious.

• 57:21Griffin Newman?

  It's kind of wild, nine movies, C-3PO never even like...

• 57:27David Sims?

  Carry on. Finish your thought.

• 57:30Griffin Newman?

  He never even like fucks.

• 57:34Speaker 03

  It's supposed to everyone else in

• 57:35Griffin Newman?

  Artu feels horny.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  Fucking left and right.

• 57:37Griffin Newman?

  You know?

• 57:38Speaker 03

  Artu could get it.

• 57:39Griffin Newman?

  Artu can get it. And I think he is getting, I think sometimes he's rolling off to the side and you're like, where did Artu go? And you're like, he's, he's gone. He's hitting.

• 57:48David Sims?

  So, uh, you know, they, you know, the usual Ben Burt thing of like, okay, now I've got this challenge of like, creating character voices, all distinct, all have to sort of sound human, sound relatable. It's tough. He records in a little chamber, he says.

• 58:08David Sims?

  Takes those recordings, run them, run them through his computer. He analyzes the sound and breaks them into component parts. Like you would sort of break light through a prison to get colors, he says. And then you start refabricating, you know, putting it all back together again, but you can control, you can be like, maybe a little more of this, a little less of this. Hold vowels, stretch vocal cords in a way that you could never, you know, pitches and, you know, if sound was silly putty, you could stretch it and make it longer, he says. I found a way of working on Wally where you could do that. Sounds like something I would not be good at, but it sounds very, very cool. He's a very cool guy. He also just, I mean, I've only seen him in countless making ups, but it just seems like a friendly fella.

• 58:50Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 58:51David Sims?

  Seems like a sweetie pie.

• 58:52Griffin Newman?

  Pie, super charming.

• 58:53David Sims?

  He's not like, this is intense, like.

• 58:55Griffin Newman?

  No. I also, I also think some of these Lucasy guys in interviews, you're like, you're like, you are the spectrum. You seem like a nice person, but you almost like are a robot looking for another robot to talk to. Ben Burt, I, I think is, I, I got to meet him when we went with George Lucas to Skywalker Ranch.

• 59:15David Sims?

  Cool.

• 59:16Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and he has since retired, but was there, uh, giving a tour to his friend from high school.

• 59:22David Sims?

  That's cool. I mean, he's pretty old at this point. He's in his late seventies.

• 59:25Speaker 03

  I assume you must have talked at length on this podcast about the trip you just mentioned, but I have no memory of hearing about it.

• 59:31Griffin Newman?

  I haven't talked about it much, but it was pretty incredible.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  It's a very casual, George Lucas took me to his house.

• 59:36Griffin Newman?

  George Lucas did not take me to his house. George Lucas has not acknowledged us.

• 59:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 59:42David Sims?

  Yeah. The way you presented it is something like that.

• 59:45Griffin Newman?

  Sorry, sorry. Let me clarify. Yes.

• 59:47Speaker 03

  Go ahead. Yes.

• 59:48Griffin Newman?

  Uh, other people within the organization, uh, like the George Lucas Talk Show.

• 59:53Speaker 03

  Darth Maul.

• 59:54Griffin Newman?

  And have always been like, I don't. I wonder if George would like it. There's always been this sort of one degree away. George does like comedy, but he's really sensitive and self-conscious.

• 1:00:05David Sims?

  The extent to which he can find humor in himself and his work.

• 1:00:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:00:11David Sims?

  It seems to me it's more than it was, but I'm not detaching a ton of it.

• 1:00:17Griffin Newman?

  It's more than it was, but also like every year at like Comic Con, they would do a panel that was like Lucasfilm's favorite fan films and parodies. Like he's always embraced that shit. And Connor, Connor Raliffe, always tells the story about like the first time Star Wars was on the cover of Mad.

• 1:00:35Griffin Newman?

  They, they were sent like a cease and desist. And George Lucas, they, Mad responded to George Lucas's lawyer saying like, really? Because this is a letter we got from George Lucas last week. And it was George saying like, I'm so flattered to be on the cover of Mad. Can I please buy the original art? But we walked into like the Skywalker Ranch library and the librarian looked at Connor and went, was wondering if you were ever going to show your face here. It feels like all of them watched the show.

• 1:01:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Fascinating.

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  I have to say, some of the only joy I've, I've known in the last few weeks was watching Jared Harris on the George Lucas Talk Show. Where he was just the first half of it. He's like, what decisions have I made in my life that led me to this moment?

• 1:01:19Griffin Newman?

  That's the joy of doing the show is watching people go through that. And then by the end of it, be like, I'm all in on this. But it was so cool to watch. Basically, we were being given a tour adjacent to Ben Burke giving a tour. And it was at a, on a day where there weren't a lot of people.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  Like you could walk 15 feet behind him and just hear echoes of what was set up front.

• 1:01:40Griffin Newman?

  And watch him talk about it and whatever. He, he's a lovely guy.

• 1:01:43David Sims?

  So Sigourney Weaver obviously is involved with this movie.

• 1:01:47Griffin Newman?

  As he put it to Sigourney Weaver, you get to play mother now.

• 1:01:50David Sims?

  Right. What if your mother, she likes that idea? She does it. Sigourney Weaver, I feel like also likes to do stuff.

• 1:01:55Speaker 03

  It does feel like a great way of incepting your kids with eventually watching Alien when they're seven.

• 1:02:01Griffin Newman?

  It also.

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  Is on the timeline.

• 1:02:02Griffin Newman?

  It also speaks to the tough sell of this movie where I remember like Sigourney Weaver doing fucking like the Today Show and Good Morning in America and whatever for this movie. Even though it's almost like an extended in joke cameo, because they were like, we have no stars in this film. Like Sigourney Weaver's The Computer. The other lead actors are Ben Burt, a Pixar employee, and the Mac text to speech program.

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  And two men who have been accused of being sex pests in different, different varieties.

• 1:02:30Griffin Newman?

  Yes, you're right. I was, I was doing an account in my head.

• 1:02:33David Sims?

  Who was the other?

• 1:02:34Griffin Newman?

  To a Pixar favorite.

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  Jeff Garland has gotten some blowback. And Fred Willard jacked it.

• 1:02:38David Sims?

  No, he's no pest.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  Listen, I didn't say I was.

• 1:02:42David Sims?

  He jacked it in the place you're supposed to jacket, right?

• 1:02:44Griffin Newman?

  He was appreciating the art. He was engaging with it in the manner in which it was.

• 1:02:48David Sims?

  It was in a porn theater, right?

• 1:02:50Griffin Newman?

  It was the Dickie Theater.

• 1:02:50David Sims?

  You take that back.

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  I didn't say sex pest in a derogatory way. You did.

• 1:02:54David Sims?

  Well, pest is a derogatory word. You can't just be like, ah, I'm being a pest. And everyone's like, ah, yeah, you're my favorite pest.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  Story of my life.

• 1:03:02Griffin Newman?

  I would call him a sex fan.

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:03:04Griffin Newman?

  He's an appreciator of sex.

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  Sex minister, yeah.

• 1:03:07Griffin Newman?

  But yeah, no, it's right. Willard Garland, John Ratzenberger, the big three of the 2000s box office.

• 1:03:16David Sims?

  So, Wally, you know, they, there is the, right.

• 1:03:20Griffin Newman?

  So are Wally, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:03:21David Sims?

  Well, right, there is the, I think at the time for Pixar, somewhat revolutionary thing of like, we will have humans in the movie.

• 1:03:31Griffin Newman?

  It's still the only time they've done that.

• 1:03:32David Sims?

  Right. Like, they've never done anything like that since, really? No, yeah. So you got Willard, obviously is like, it's a good joke. I mean, it's sort of like, we will turn into CG.

• 1:03:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:41David Sims?

  We were once humans and we turned into CG.

• 1:03:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, this is also the movie where, and Stan talks about that. This was kind of his main project of like, if we're putting humans in it, then we're presenting this not as a form of like photorealism, but we have to sell a sense of verisimilitude. And so the technology has finally gotten to a point, and this is still an era of Pixar, where almost every movie is built around a new technical challenge can we solve? Right? Like, there are actual basic building blocks of this medium working that still have not been cracked yet. And his big pet project on this one was, can we truly make the virtual camera feel real?

• 1:04:23Griffin Newman?

  Unlike in 2D animation where you are the animator, also basically the cinematographer to a degree.

• 1:04:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:04:30Griffin Newman?

  And that you are composing your shot, but you're very limited in the kind of camera movements or even approximations of camera movements you can do. CGI inherently has like a virtual camera built within it. You know, this is a movie where it's like, we want to make the camera feel real. We want to own the imperfections and the struggles of what a camera.

• 1:04:50David Sims?

  They did a lot of analog 70 millimeter tests to try and capture that kind of, you know, the lighting, the texture.

• 1:04:56Griffin Newman?

  And they're like, where is the barrel distortion? You know, where are the imperfections? They got both Roger Deakins and Dennis Mirren to be consultants on this movie. And he was basically like, I explained to them all these things that have driven like Russian lens makers crazy for decades that they've never been able to solve. The weird quirks of just like human limitations that then Pixar is trying to replicate rather than computer, which is always trying to perfect everything. And a thing that happens.

• 1:05:28David Sims?

  Computer kind of bad guy.

• 1:05:30Griffin Newman?

  Computer kind of bad guy.

• 1:05:31David Sims?

  In this movie.

• 1:05:32Griffin Newman?

  Um, but like especially in the sort of, uh, Leanne Rose, uh, montage. There's a lot of like, you feel the camera operator and they talked about this of like, especially the, the scene where Wally, uh, triggers all the shopping carts. And they come like rolling after him against the wall. Like the camera is struggling to catch up with Wally and keep him in the frame. There's like an overcorrection of the camera movement. That's basically the stuff they started fucking with in the bloopers.

• 1:06:02David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:03Griffin Newman?

  Like the Toy Story Bugs, Life, Monsters and Bloopers have that kind of like, isn't it funny to acknowledge that someone needs to like refocus?

• 1:06:09David Sims?

  I don't, I don't care for those.

• 1:06:11Griffin Newman?

  The bloopers are funny, David. I understand.

• 1:06:14David Sims?

  I don't care for them.

• 1:06:15Griffin Newman?

  You don't care for them at all?

• 1:06:16David Sims?

  No, I liked them when I was a kid.

• 1:06:17Speaker 03

  It's funny that, that animation.

• 1:06:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  Would have mistakes because you'd think they would just erase it along the way.

• 1:06:24Griffin Newman?

  We also, we didn't call this out in Finding Nemo, but that was one of Stanton's moves also where he was like, these movies can't start to feel like they're fitting into a pattern and a formula.

• 1:06:33David Sims?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:06:33Griffin Newman?

  We got, we gotta break the blooper thing because like, we're about to start repeating ourselves.

• 1:06:38David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. I don't like the blooper thing.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  And this movie does not suffer from Pixar boardroom story.

• 1:06:43David Sims?

  No, this is what I'm saying. He retreated from that.

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:46David Sims?

  Like.

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  I mean, very clearly.

• 1:06:47David Sims?

  Uh, I mean, obviously Brave, their best film was still to come.

• 1:06:51Speaker 03

  It's a trip. Change your fate.

• 1:06:53Speaker 04

  Do you want to change your fate?

• 1:06:55Griffin Newman?

  Um, was that the wisps?

• 1:06:57David Sims?

  Now, the film begins. Oh, how does Wally fit into the Pixar theory? The witch turns into Woody and then where's Wally in this?

• 1:07:06Griffin Newman?

  Wally's.

• 1:07:06David Sims?

  Is Wally pre cars? Like, will cars come after Wally?

• 1:07:10Griffin Newman?

  I think Wally is post.

• 1:07:11David Sims?

  Like if Wally charts the apocalypse and then, but yeah, is it post cars?

• 1:07:15Griffin Newman?

  I, yeah, I think it's that after the cars have died off.

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  Was not originally invented to clean up, uh, what's his name? Fucking McQueen, Lightning McQueen.

• 1:07:24David Sims?

  Yeah, Wally is post cars. Of course, guess what's post Wally in the Pixar timeline theory? Onward, of course, set in the 4000s.

• 1:07:34Griffin Newman?

  Fuck you. Honestly, honestly, fuck you.

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  I mean, I don't know what you're talking about. Is it worth diving into?

• 1:07:41David Sims?

  No, no, no, no, no. We'll move on.

• 1:07:43Griffin Newman?

  It's worth saying what it is and why we're not giving it any validity.

• 1:07:46David Sims?

  It's not a real.

• 1:07:47Griffin Newman?

  The Pixar movies all have these Easter eggs, right? Where it's like the, the pizza planet truck shows up in every movie. There are things like that. And most of the Pixar movies include a preview of the next film. So we called out in the Finding Nemo episode in the waiting room, the dentist, a kid's reading an Incredibles comic. They would seed kind of the next movie in a little way, right? At the end of Monsters, Inc., Boo has like a Nemo toy. There's always that kind of shit. And a very annoying corner of the internet started taking it literally and being like, oh, that means they exist in the same universe. What is the timeline that justifies all these things happening? And with every added Pixar film, it becomes sweatier and sweatier.

• 1:08:30Griffin Newman?

  But you can watch like hour long YouTube essays where it's like, so.

• 1:08:37Speaker 03

  I mean, I believe there was like a PowerPoint presentation.

• 1:08:39Griffin Newman?

  Cars take over.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  Kick this off.

• 1:08:41Griffin Newman?

  Then when the cars kill themselves, Wally cleans up our garbage.

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  Wally starts with a real shot across the bow. Uh, in that you like immediately it's just out there, you know? And it is so immediately removed from Pixar tonality up until that point.

• 1:08:58Griffin Newman?

  I, I thought about. Our Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon episode where you said, has any movie more quickly announced itself as a masterpiece?

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:09:06Griffin Newman?

  With the opening strings.

• 1:09:08David Sims?

  Crouching Tiger still has it.

• 1:09:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know if the quality is implicit to what all he's doing.

• 1:09:13David Sims?

  Well, because Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon begins with boom, and you're like, ah!

• 1:09:17Speaker 03

  But in context, this is telling you, you know, circa 2008, and you're sitting there in the theater, this is not your daddy's Pixar movie.

• 1:09:24Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's also, there's no soft ease in, you know, most of the Pixar movies like have like a cold open before you go to an opening credit sequence, and then they start to really minimize the opening credit sequence. This is like Disney logo, Pixar logo, the short before this was Presto, which is pretty good in theater.

• 1:09:42David Sims?

  Pretty good.

• 1:09:43Griffin Newman?

  You love Presto?

• 1:09:44David Sims?

  I think that's the best one they ever did.

• 1:09:46Griffin Newman?

  You think that's the best one they ever did?

• 1:09:48David Sims?

  Apart from, of course, my beloved Red Stream, where the bicycle, yeah, what's your favorite?

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  And Lava.

• 1:09:54David Sims?

  Lava. Lava actually should have gotten Pixar shut down. You know what I mean? Like, where it's like, everyone's like, we appreciate everything, and they release Lava, and the government immediately is like, I'm sorry, you're done.

• 1:10:04Speaker 03

  I came home one day and found my daughter watching Lava, and it was like, what, like,

• 1:10:08David Sims?

  You threw the TV out the window.

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  And seeing your kid watching the ring tape. I was just like, no!

• 1:10:15David Sims?

  What's your favorite of the shorts? I think Presto is so goddamn funny.

• 1:10:19Griffin Newman?

  I love Presto, but I'm like, the top is interesting.

• 1:10:22David Sims?

  What's the top?

• 1:10:24Griffin Newman?

  I gotta thank God, no.

• 1:10:24David Sims?

  It's, it better not be fucking.

• 1:10:26Griffin Newman?

  Lava?

• 1:10:28David Sims?

  Well, yeah.

• 1:10:29Griffin Newman?

  I mean. It better not be fucking what?

• 1:10:31David Sims?

  Uh, I was about to say, uh, a funny one, uh, Boundon, but I do enjoy Boundon.

• 1:10:36Griffin Newman?

  Lovely.

• 1:10:36David Sims?

  He's Boundon.

• 1:10:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:38David Sims?

  I like, yeah, yeah, I like Lava the most. I, I mean, sorry, sorry, Presto, sorry, yeah, I hate, Lava's the, I love Bow, and I've seen Bow so many times because my daughter really loved Bow for a long time.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  They sent me the little plastic prop Bow when that came out, and it's been living in my freezer for like eight years now.

• 1:10:58Griffin Newman?

  Was it in your freezer?

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  Cause it's a frozen Bow, I don't know, I put it up there, I hid it in the corner. Yeah, well, tell us about.

• 1:11:05Griffin Newman?

  I'm like, is Jerry's game my favorite? Is that a little?

• 1:11:07David Sims?

  Jerry's game's very good.

• 1:11:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:09David Sims?

  Jerry's game's very good. He's joining the MCU soon, right?

• 1:11:13Griffin Newman?

  Can you name which ones won the Oscar?

• 1:11:16David Sims?

  Did Jerry's game win?

• 1:11:17Griffin Newman?

  Jerry's game won.

• 1:11:18David Sims?

  Okay, oh, so Luxo Junior won.

• 1:11:21Griffin Newman?

  Uh, incorrect. Luxo Junior was nominated.

• 1:11:23David Sims?

  Rude. Tin Toy won?

• 1:11:24Griffin Newman?

  Tin Toy won. That's the first win.

• 1:11:26David Sims?

  Did Nick Nick win?

• 1:11:27Griffin Newman?

  Nick Nick sadly lost two stack, two bodacious.

• 1:11:30David Sims?

  Right. Jerry's game won?

• 1:11:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that was the second. Yep.

• 1:11:34David Sims?

  For the birds one, I remember that. That was in that era where it was kinda like, are they just gonna win every single time they do one?

• 1:11:39Griffin Newman?

  Cause it was too consecutive for it.

• 1:11:40David Sims?

  Bound and got its ass kicked.

• 1:11:42Griffin Newman?

  Bound and did get its ass kicked. Then it doesn't win, they don't win again for a while.

• 1:11:47David Sims?

  Did Day and Night win?

• 1:11:49Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:11:49David Sims?

  La Luna?

• 1:11:51Griffin Newman?

  Uh, no.

• 1:11:52David Sims?

  My, my daughter also loves.

• 1:11:53Griffin Newman?

  Both those nominated, yeah.

• 1:11:55David Sims?

  La Luna is, is a Luca prequel.

• 1:11:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:11:58David Sims?

  You know, it's got like Luca's style.

• 1:11:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:12:00David Sims?

  Lava didn't win, did it?

• 1:12:01Griffin Newman?

  No, thank God. Lava not even nominated.

• 1:12:04David Sims?

  Did Piper win?

• 1:12:05Griffin Newman?

  Piper won.

• 1:12:05David Sims?

  Piper's good. Piper looks amazing.

• 1:12:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:12:08David Sims?

  Piper's just looks incredible.

• 1:12:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but there's not a win between 2020 and 16. And then Bow one. Yeah.

• 1:12:14David Sims?

  Bow's so good. She eat the bow.

• 1:12:15Griffin Newman?

  She eat the bow. Do you remember when they announced Bow and we were all like, this sucks. I don't wanna watch a food baby. And then everyone comes out of Bow crying.

• 1:12:23David Sims?

  Bow fucking rocks. And then of course Turning Red rocks. Maybe Turning Red is the best.

• 1:12:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:27David Sims?

  Uh, God, Turning Red's so funny. Now I'm just thinking about it with all their faces. Go funny, anime style. It's so funny.

• 1:12:34Griffin Newman?

  I just think the immediate quick cuts, establishing shots of space, straight it with fucking Hello Dolly lyrics. The weird juxtaposition of like, what is the fucking tone of this movie?

• 1:12:46David Sims?

  The Hello Dolly of it is very funny in that that movie is so flawed.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  I mean, this is that movie's greatest legacy.

• 1:12:53David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:12:54Griffin Newman?

  Stan's also said that. He's like, I find it funny that Wally has bad taste.

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  Well, it's like, I always imagine.

• 1:12:59David Sims?

  He's a bit of a cheese ball.

• 1:13:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:01Speaker 03

  Listen, Wally, Wally was not exactly, uh, you know, had a blockbuster video at his disposal.

• 1:13:06David Sims?

  Guys, he just wants to hold hands.

• 1:13:08Speaker 03

  He does. But I always do imagine like, what if Wally had found like a VHS of Citizen Kane or something?

• 1:13:14David Sims?

  Yeah, I think Citizen Kane's so fun. Right. What's the gag?

• 1:13:18Speaker 03

  Obviously not as funny, but you know.

• 1:13:19David Sims?

  What's the gag where he throws out the good?

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  The ring. He picks up a ring box and he throws out the ring.

• 1:13:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:24David Sims?

  I love that.

• 1:13:25Griffin Newman?

  But I, I think that's part of also like, it feels.

• 1:13:31Griffin Newman?

  Reflective of like, you're lucky or like that your son hyper fixated on Wally and that was the movie that had to play 500 times in your

• 1:13:38Speaker 03

  Oh, there have been other much worse hyper fixations in its

• 1:13:40Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. You're like, he's like a child.

• 1:13:42Speaker 03

  Ice Age, The Meltdown.

• 1:13:44Griffin Newman?

  For some reason, he's fucking locked in on.

• 1:13:47David Sims?

  Meltdown's tough. That's a tough movie.

• 1:13:50Speaker 03

  So step up from the first Ice Age.

• 1:13:51David Sims?

  No, it is not.

• 1:13:52Speaker 03

  A step down from beating yourself in the face with a hammer.

• 1:13:55Griffin Newman?

  One time I went over to your place and your son was insistent that we all watch Ice Age, The Meltdown and got really angry when anyone else was talking to her.

• 1:14:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah. He loves to do that. Yeah. He's, uh, this is part of why we had such a blow up at the Alamo Drafthouse.

• 1:14:08Griffin Newman?

  Well, yes.

• 1:14:09David Sims?

  What was the blow up?

• 1:14:10Griffin Newman?

  What were you saying?

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  We about it online.

• 1:14:13Griffin Newman?

  You didn't read Ehrlich's Drafthouse piece?

• 1:14:15David Sims?

  Oh, I did. Oh, oh, yes. Right. But that was not entirely his fault, right? I mean, there was.

• 1:14:20Speaker 03

  Ace was not complaining about other people talking. But no, Ace is, you know, very serious about taking in his, uh, his Ice Age. It's not like people talking over it. Everyone has to.

• 1:14:29David Sims?

  I really don't like going to, I've been to Drafthouse twice with my daughter and I don't like it as much as the night off.

• 1:14:34Speaker 03

  Please do not even get me started.

• 1:14:35David Sims?

  Obviously, Drafthouse is right.

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  But Ice Age, boiling point.

• 1:14:38Griffin Newman?

  The Nighthawk has been better. Drafthouse is now, I, I agree with you, the worst place to see a movie.

• 1:14:43David Sims?

  They, but so easy to fix. Like, it's just like, it, you have the infrastructure. We can fix this.

• 1:14:49Griffin Newman?

  Roll it back.

• 1:14:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:14:51Griffin Newman?

  We all told you not to do this and now it's not going well.

• 1:14:55David Sims?

  I can't tell.

• 1:14:56Speaker 03

  I'm holding out hope for common sense prevail, but I also think that they are so deep in it and are so invested in transitioning their workforce.

• 1:15:03David Sims?

  Because they made the stupid technology.

• 1:15:05Speaker 03

  Firing lots of people and reducing their hours and having no more seasonal workers.

• 1:15:08Griffin Newman?

  That was their whole thing too, was they were like, we're rolling this out as a test program to see if it works.

• 1:15:13Speaker 03

  To test, you know, how much it fucking sucks.

• 1:15:15Griffin Newman?

  Terrible. And they're like, great, we're gonna go ahead and force it on everyone. And it was like, this was your plan all along. You, you didn't care how anyone felt about it.

• 1:15:24David Sims?

  Yeah, of course. Right.

• 1:15:25Griffin Newman?

  Some real B and L shit.

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  Uh, it is some real B and L shit, uh, but I was just trying to think of the other movies that I've had to endure this many times. Uh, he's now really into Big City Greens, which is not a movie at all.

• 1:15:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  It's a show that I had not heard of until he happened.

• 1:15:39David Sims?

  You mentioned this to me. Never heard of it.

• 1:15:41Speaker 03

  It turns out that like roughly 60% of the guests who have ever appeared on Blank Check have done voice cameos on Big City Greens.

• 1:15:49Griffin Newman?

  Not one Griffin Newman.

• 1:15:51David Sims?

  Not one host.

• 1:15:52Griffin Newman?

  No, zero.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  Hozley's been on it.

• 1:15:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  He's in an art.

• 1:15:56Griffin Newman?

  He's a regular.

• 1:15:58Speaker 03

  But yeah, that's, that's his latest thing. I'm still trying to figure out what it is.

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  Hi, Ben. My name is David Erlich. You might remember me from such Blank Check episodes as Wally. So I figured that I would send you a quick voicemail because something has really been troubling me since we recorded our Wally episode a couple of months ago. You know, and any number of things that I've said on Blank Check over the years have, have plagued me, but, but nothing has really kept me up at night quite like how callously I dismissed the children's television show Big City Greens. I think at the time I was miffed that my six-year-old son Asa was forsaking the infinite riches of children's cinema in favor of a streaming television show during his limited after-school television time.

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  But it turns out that Big City Greens is a fucking masterpiece. It's basically The Simpsons for eight-year-olds or, or younger. I think it ages, it's a little bit aged up for my son, but he seems to rock with it anyway. It's actually a gateway drug to The Simpsons that I came home one day to find my son watching completely unprompted, didn't even know he was aware that The Simpsons existed, Marge versus the monorail, which was a really profound moment for me. Anyway, in summation, Wally good, Big City Greens, very good, Chip Whistler evil. That's what I got. Thank you. Love you. Bye.

• 1:17:26Griffin Newman?

  Here's a question for you. How long had it been, do you think, since Asa had seen the movie last, after watching it hundreds of times? There's been a bit of a gap when he discovered all the movies.

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  Right. Until last, before last night, when I had to sort of, because he's so resistant to anything that is no longer his choice, anything that he thinks is his sister's idea or preference is not going to fly. So I actually, thinking that- That he would be just sort of enraptured by flashing lights as he is prone to do. I had my, my beautiful wife, Mo, turn on Wally as I was bringing the kids up the stairs.

• 1:18:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:02Speaker 03

  So that when he walked in, it would just be there. And sure enough, you know, slack jaw, you know, like he's the thing from Batman forever.

• 1:18:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:09Speaker 03

  Just fucking, um, watching Wally.

• 1:18:11Griffin Newman?

  It did immediately suck him in.

• 1:18:12Speaker 03

  It did. And they ended up watching the whole thing. Uh, but it had been, it had been probably three years.

• 1:18:18Griffin Newman?

  And your daughter had never seen it before.

• 1:18:19Speaker 03

  Never seen it before, immediately, immediately fell in love with Wally, Allah Wally falling in love with Eve. However, it came from a place of profound concern. I think my, my daughter, unlike my,

• 1:18:33Speaker 03

  I hesitate to call him sociopath on a podcast that will outlive me, uh, but it'll love my life, Asa, but, uh, he, he's not quite the natural empath that my, uh, that my daughter is, but like every three seconds would just be like, Wally, no, is he okay? Wally, Wally.

• 1:18:49David Sims?

  My daughter is.

• 1:18:50Speaker 03

  Constantly in peril.

• 1:18:51David Sims?

  My daughter would get so anxious about when the rocket lands because that is, I guess, in the first act, pretty much the only moment of real peril.

• 1:18:59Griffin Newman?

  When he's chasing the red dot.

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  Yeah. And then like the flame and cause she would just, you know, and she right had to always be reassured. I would like, he's fine.

• 1:19:05Griffin Newman?

  Also, Eva does shoot Wally several times.

• 1:19:09David Sims?

  She does, but like, that's played more for laughs, I guess. Like you never really feel that threat. And then the later existential threat, if he loses his personality.

• 1:19:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:20David Sims?

  I think didn't quite land with my like three year old daughter, right? She didn't really get the peril there.

• 1:19:26Speaker 03

  Uncle Griffin did buy a, I think a Wally and an Eva, or maybe I bought the Wally.

• 1:19:32Griffin Newman?

  I think you bought the Wally. They're still making new Wally's and they haven't made a good Eva in a while. And I bought a vintage Eva.

• 1:19:40Speaker 03

  Pretty good.

• 1:19:40Griffin Newman?

  It's no, it's.

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  I mean, it doesn't fly, but.

• 1:19:42Griffin Newman?

  None of them do that. It's, please trust me. I did the work to get the best one I could, but it was vintage. Like the, I don't think they've produced a compatible.

• 1:19:52Speaker 03

  It does have a cannon.

• 1:19:53Griffin Newman?

  In like 15 years. Yeah.

• 1:19:55Speaker 03

  Which has blown several holes in my apartment walls.

• 1:19:57David Sims?

  Is there an Eva Funko Pop?

• 1:19:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, of course. Yes. Yes. But, right. Her name is technically Eve.

• 1:20:04David Sims?

  Her name is Eve.

• 1:20:05Griffin Newman?

  But it's just that Wally calls Eva.

• 1:20:08David Sims?

  And she says, Wally. And can we just say that she's hot? Or should I just, should I not do that? Like, I walked out of the movie with two, at the time, being like, I really liked that. Wasn't quite as transcendent as I was hoping at the time. I remember.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  However, I am rock hard.

• 1:20:25David Sims?

  But then my second, that bossy robot.

• 1:20:29Speaker 03

  She is a bossy round face. Her face could not be rounder.

• 1:20:32David Sims?

  Correct. And she could not be bossier.

• 1:20:34Griffin Newman?

  She's an upset down egg.

• 1:20:35David Sims?

  All she does is go, Wally. And he's like.

• 1:20:38Griffin Newman?

  You know what moment I really love?

• 1:20:40David Sims?

  Please.

• 1:20:41Griffin Newman?

  After she kisses him and electrocutes his face.

• 1:20:44David Sims?

  She does.

• 1:20:45Griffin Newman?

  In space and he's like frozen and floating away. She goes, Wally.

• 1:20:49David Sims?

  Wow.

• 1:20:49Griffin Newman?

  For the first time, she's like, kind of like, come on, you old silly goose.

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  I know that my sexual power is totally fried.

• 1:20:56Griffin Newman?

  Wally.

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  Operating system.

• 1:20:58Griffin Newman?

  She like waves her arm over.

• 1:21:09Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:21:10David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:10Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot.

• 1:21:16David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:21:16Griffin Newman?

  On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:21:27David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:21:28Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:21:51David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows, of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:22:03Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:22:12David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:22:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:22:15David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:22:22Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:22:36David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:22:38Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:22:41David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:22:56Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:23:12Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:23:12David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:23:13Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 1:23:34David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 1:23:54Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:24:10David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listentodracula.

• 1:24:44Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:24:45David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:24:45Griffin Newman?

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• 1:24:49David Sims?

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• 1:24:50Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:24:51David Sims?

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• 1:24:59Griffin Newman?

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• 1:25:16Griffin Newman?

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• 1:25:18David Sims?

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• 1:25:23Griffin Newman?

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• 1:25:38Griffin Newman?

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• 1:25:38David Sims?

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• 1:25:54Speaker 05

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• 1:26:16David Sims?

  All right, we start with, though, Wally lives. As you said, Stanton's like-

• 1:26:20Griffin Newman?

  You start with out there.

• 1:26:21David Sims?

  Well, that's true, but I mean, read the first act and the silence and all that. And, you know, Stanton says, we were breaking rules. These, this obviously was not a done thing.

• 1:26:31Griffin Newman?

  But this is my point. You start with the fucking Blair of like-

• 1:26:35David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:26:35Griffin Newman?

  An obscure musical song and you're like, this is not how this movie starts. And then it winds down to absolute silence.

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  But then it's also

• 1:26:42Griffin Newman?

  Like as we get closer to earth.

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  The pivot that they make to the first notes of Thomas Newman's score, which are very ominous.

• 1:26:47Griffin Newman?

  Score very important.

• 1:26:48Speaker 03

  And that is a huge, that is a huge jarring moment, I think, similarly unexpected. Where you're like, oh, we're going from the joy of that song to, to something is unnerving.

• 1:26:59Griffin Newman?

  The palette of the first three minutes is already like throwing you totally out of whack of like, don't expect this to conform to the comforts of the usual Pixar movie. Why are they using like an old Hollywood song? Why is there now just kind of silence and isolation? And they film Wally from like such a distance. And you're sort of focusing on the spaces and then watching him cross in clear frame.

• 1:27:21Speaker 03

  And not even clocking necessarily that he built everything we can see.

• 1:27:25Griffin Newman?

  Totally. Right. And then the Thomas Newman score only kicks in once we sort of zoom out and understand, oh, he built these structures.

• 1:27:32Speaker 03

  And he's sad and alone.

• 1:27:33Griffin Newman?

  You watch the process of him, sans music, doing the cubing, stacking the one, the sort of pride he has in doing it precisely. There's a great Stanton clip on, there's a, there's a like 20 minute feature on the Criterion. Ben, to your question, you asked famously in the early days of podcasting, how, how do you direct animation? Draw faster, right?

• 1:27:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:55Griffin Newman?

  There's a really good like 20 minute.

• 1:27:57Speaker 03

  I don't know, but also better.

• 1:27:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Sort of like mini documentary of showing what directing animation is. And it's just kind of a compilation of reviews that Stanton's doing. He said basically that like, as he puts it, directing animation is you have to make a choice every three and a half minutes. He's like, I arrive every morning, my assistant gives me what they call the dance card. And it's here's everything you need to review today. And the list is so long that basically on average, every three and a half minutes, you have to make a definitive choice about something, whether it's approving a design thing or a sound thing, or an actual shot, giving a note, you know, deciding when a thing is finally finished, or what needs to be adjusted, or any of that.

• 1:28:39Griffin Newman?

  And there's a really good clip of him in a meeting with a lot of the story team, the design team. Trying to figure out, okay, how are the robots gonna work? And much like Finding Nemo, where he said, I really didn't want to anthropomorphize the fish. I wanted to find a way to make the fish expressive while sticking to basically the physiology of how a fish could actually move.

• 1:28:59Speaker 03

  Secret, what if Jewish? Solved.

• 1:29:01Griffin Newman?

  The answer, right? But for Wally, he was like, I don't want them to mirror our bodies that much. I want to play with limitations.

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  Right. I think that's fun.

• 1:29:14Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. It's more interesting to me if their bodies can do a thing that we could never do. And so Angus McLean, who was a big part of this movie, later directs Lightyear, which rewatching this, I was like, oh yeah, the whole fucking design language of Lightyear was ripped off from this movie. It is what if Buzz Lightyear had Wally designs, even all the tech? All the ships have the same kind of weird like rounded edges.

• 1:29:36Speaker 03

  Movie that's the origin story of the action figure?

• 1:29:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh my God, Ehrlich. It's not a movie about the action figure. It's about the real man that the action figure is based on. Because in 1995, a young boy watched a movie.

• 1:29:49Speaker 04

  I'm pretty sure he made a joke, the same joke on the Nemo episode. So I think we'll just maybe have to do it every time during this series.

• 1:29:56Griffin Newman?

  He has this great line where he's saying to Angus McLean, he's like, can I make the argument for giving him elbows? Right? Like Angus McLean's making this plea of like, it's gonna make all of our lives easier. If we can give him an elbow and Stanton goes, I'd rather give you a wrist than an elbow. And everyone in the room goes like, huh? And you watch him explain for the first time. Like it's coming to him. Like what if his arms are like this? What if they're small and they're out like this and his wrist can extend in this sort of way? And that's now coming up with a language of movement that you couldn't do with a human being. Which is, I think so much of what Stanton finds interesting in animation is like finding these midpoints between the language of live action film and the language of animation.

• 1:30:40Griffin Newman?

  Which is like, how do you kind of shoot and cut a movie in quotes? With what we understand from live action, but depict on screen things that we couldn't ever film? And find the sort of midpoint between human behavior and what kind of characters are projecting.

• 1:30:56Speaker 03

  And with Wally and so many of the robot characters in this movie, it is all in the eyes, which are obviously a cheat for animation, you know, whenever they're trying to anthropomorphize something, but I think is so resonant here because Wally is. Really kept alive, not so much by solar power as he is by curiosity and wonder. I mean, this is what separates him from all the other Wally units that have been decommissioned. It's that he gets off on discovering things about the world and that has sustained him for centuries.

• 1:31:24Griffin Newman?

  So tiny pin in this. He, the other sort of part of the lore of this movie is he was at like a baseball game and he had like cheap binoculars to watch the game from the cheap seats. And he got hyper fixated on the hinge of the binoculars and how he was like, oh, if you tilt them down, they look sad.

• 1:31:41David Sims?

  Yeah, it's brilliant.

• 1:31:42Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:31:42David Sims?

  And it's so clever.

• 1:31:43Griffin Newman?

  Which is the starting point of the design of this character. Obviously, the trash planet idea had existed, but that kind of reactivated the like, you could build an entire character where that's the only face you have. And there is the subtle thing, and it's like part of the language the movie teaches you that pays off so effectively at the end when Wally like comes back is, oh, all these robots are supposed to have a straight line for their eyes.

• 1:32:06David Sims?

  And I mean, that's right. When he turns personalityless, he goes back to.

• 1:32:10Griffin Newman?

  It's the droop.

• 1:32:11David Sims?

  No, no, the droop is when he gets good again.

• 1:32:13Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. But that's the moment where you're like, oh, my God, our guy is back.

• 1:32:17David Sims?

  Yeah, our guy.

• 1:32:18Griffin Newman?

  And you're.

• 1:32:18David Sims?

  He is our guy.

• 1:32:18Griffin Newman?

  You've, they've taught you this thing where suddenly seeing the droop conveys so much to you in this classic like Pixar teaches you a technology that is meaningless. And by the end of the movie, it can communicate a complicated thing in one movement. I think that is sort of the defining thing that this movie is about is like, it's not about artificial intelligence in a sort of designed, we want to create artificial intelligence way. It is this fascinating, like what creates a personality, what creates a soul? If a robot lives long enough, do like aberrations start to happen?

• 1:32:51Speaker 03

  Which is why it tracks so well into a different context of artificial intelligence, which is as a criticism of something it couldn't anticipate necessarily, which is AI.

• 1:33:00Griffin Newman?

  Right, right.

• 1:33:00Speaker 03

  And the movie being a very obvious now in hindsight, broadside against what would happen if we just delegate all of our thinking and ability to automated systems.

• 1:33:09Griffin Newman?

  Which this movie is basically all the robots you see in it aren't trying to comfort you by seeming human. They are there to serve a specific function, right? This is just like, what if a robot did your fucking makeup? And that's the one that needs to You look gorgeous. impersonate a social interaction because that's part of the dynamic. But otherwise, it's just like, what is the one thing this fucking robot needs to do? And it doesn't need a face and it doesn't need a personality. It's just going to serve this one job that we can like clean up. Uh, in some cases, literally make the robot that cleans up. All of the main robot characters in this movie are defined by a moment where you realize, oh, something has weirdly evolved in them where they now have a personality,

• 1:33:50Griffin Newman?

  where they now take some specific pleasure in doing what they do. It is no longer programming. There is some joy in this that is basically like a malfunction. But in that malfunction, like feelings are developed. So you start with like Wally, the sense of pride he takes in the garbage. Is that the reason that he has outlived all the other models?

• 1:34:14David Sims?

  Sure. Yeah. And probably, right? Cause like that's, there are all the other models burnt out, we assume, dead.

• 1:34:21Griffin Newman?

  And you watch Wally.

• 1:34:21David Sims?

  Interested, you know, whatever.

• 1:34:23Speaker 03

  He's making architecture out of.

• 1:34:24David Sims?

  Right. He's doing arts. Yeah.

• 1:34:26Griffin Newman?

  And as I say, that little gesture with the wrists is just like, you see the satisfaction of like another clean wall.

• 1:34:33Speaker 04

  But he loves to curate stuff. He's got his lunchbox.

• 1:34:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he lives in my apartment. I get this guy. I really get this.

• 1:34:42Speaker 03

  He has, I mean, I don't know.

• 1:34:43David Sims?

  Hadn't quite made that connection, but right.

• 1:34:46Griffin Newman?

  Kind of hit me like a ton of bricks.

• 1:34:47David Sims?

  Yeah, because of course, like Wally, right? Outside, he's making towers out of bricks and, uh, you know, all that, but.

• 1:34:53Griffin Newman?

  That's what I consider podcasting, making towers.

• 1:34:54David Sims?

  He lives in a garbage truck with the kind of like the rotating, you know, he's got the kind of the tie rack of garbage, right? Like the.

• 1:35:02Griffin Newman?

  The curation.

• 1:35:02David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:35:03Griffin Newman?

  And that was supposed to be the racks of all the other models of him.

• 1:35:06David Sims?

  And he hangs his favorite pieces.

• 1:35:08Griffin Newman?

  You know, that was one of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of ships that were just supposed to be levels of Wally's all sleeping in little boxes. He's the last one we see and just like such fucking like clean, quick, visual storytelling of his treads start to wear out. He needs to find other dead models. You're like, this is how this. One guy has survived. He's basically been Frankenstein-ing himself from his dead brothers.

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  Like, this isn't even the original Wally. At one point, he just became, uh, yeah, a hodgepodge of other Wallys.

• 1:35:39Griffin Newman?

  But you're, you're like, right. The other guy's all burned out. Why is Wally still here? Because Wally wants to be alive. Why does he want to be alive? Because he likes doing this. It's not just that he's programmed to do this. He enjoys it. And then in, in his enjoyment and also the isolation of everything else around him and the mission becoming impossible, you know, unending, he starts to get obsessed with the other objects.

• 1:36:01Speaker 03

  Well, it dovetails with what Stanton said, which is irrational, the theme of the movie for him, that he would put on like a coffee cup so that everybody who was working with him, uh, could understand at every, you know, chain in the, in the system, what movie they were making is Irrational Love Defeats Life's Programming. And so it's like, if you take that to a literal place, it's like his, his love of this activity literally overpowers, you know, the programming and, and the obsolescence that's coded into his programming and whatnot. So.

• 1:36:29Griffin Newman?

  I, I also think Stanton is a guy who's like constantly wrestling between instincts of cynicism and sentimentality that I relate to very hard. And I think his characters in his movies are usually about that.

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  Wait, and do you see, if you haven't already, in the blink of an eye?

• 1:36:45Griffin Newman?

  It will be seen.

• 1:36:47Griffin Newman?

  We're, we have to, do we have to legally?

• 1:36:50Speaker 03

  The first episode you do where no one has seen the movie.

• 1:36:52Griffin Newman?

  Legally, uh, we must. Um, but, but yes, that, there's always this battle within him,

• 1:37:00Griffin Newman?

  uh, between the, the two. I also just like love the idea that it's like, he finds the pleasure in doing his job and stacking the garbage. And then over time, he's starting to like, pay attention to the garbage and curate the garbage and study the garbage.

• 1:37:14Speaker 03

  Not to overplay Stanton's religiosity, which I think we were talking about mostly before we started recording, but like his vested Catholicism and whatnot, um, that there is an, an, an issue of, or an element of like stewardship over the earth. And there, you could easily abstract Wally looking to the heavens as, you know, waiting for a sign from God.

• 1:37:35Speaker 03

  Waiting for Eve, in fact, you know, to come down.

• 1:37:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:37:39David Sims?

  Indeed. They indeed even, of course, thought about the on the nose. Do we call him Adam or something? But he just was like, Wally is the sad sack name. Like, I could, that's the best name.

• 1:37:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:50David Sims?

  You know, like, and he's very, very smart of him.

• 1:37:52Griffin Newman?

  He also said Steve Jobs' single biggest contribution was that the movie was originally called W A L E. And he's like, I don't like that name. And then they were like.

• 1:38:01David Sims?

  Like Wally?

• 1:38:02Griffin Newman?

  Add an L. And then it worked.

• 1:38:04Speaker 03

  Exactly what Steve Jobs said. Like, the rapper?

• 1:38:06David Sims?

  I think another contribution Steve Jobs made was his money.

• 1:38:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yes.

• 1:38:10David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:38:11Speaker 03

  He threw his wallet at Andrew Stanton.

• 1:38:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and said, do whatever the fuck you want. I mean, this is just like a really, it's, it's a rare moment that, that is very, very short of just them feeling so empowered and having so much money to play with that they can just do whatever the fuck they want. And they're confident that it will have to be supported by whoever ends up releasing it. But you, you get the sort of like Wally activating the video screens, the sort of physical pop up ads of the by and large deterioration. This, this one company, a Walmart Costco-esque company has taken over all of the world. Our consumerism polluted everything. We had to leave. The robots were supposed to clean things up.

• 1:38:56Griffin Newman?

  Except it was too late. They never fixed it and humans never came back.

• 1:38:59Speaker 03

  It's interesting that Fred Willard's character, I mean, maybe there is a distinction made and I'm just not remembering, but he's the president of by and large, but he also seems to exert the precedent of the United States and possibly the world.

• 1:39:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but what I love is I feel like whenever you see his title in Chyrons, it's like he hasn't actually become the president. It's that being the CEO of B and L has maybe become more important than being the president. It is.

• 1:39:23David Sims?

  A hundred percent. Yes, it's just right. It's like a capitalist oligarchy, whatever. It's like what we became.

• 1:39:29Griffin Newman?

  Does the president not matter anymore? Or do they actually not exist?

• 1:39:32David Sims?

  It's not that Walmart, you know, still Walmart's still important, but like by and large feels Walmart coded. I know it's obviously also Amazon or whatever, but like, and that does feel of that moment.

• 1:39:44Griffin Newman?

  I was. There's stuff in this movie that is fascinating to watch now where you're like, the culture has changed more than I thought.

• 1:39:50David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:51Griffin Newman?

  Where you're like, the Walmart thing of like, right, in 2008, we all agreed was like, is Walmart the most evil company that is like going to kill us? And you're like, Walmart's so far down on the list now.

• 1:40:01Speaker 03

  There is something.

• 1:40:01Griffin Newman?

  Walmart almost feels cute.

• 1:40:03Speaker 03

  There is something quaint about this era of consumerist critique. Because we, yeah, the evils that have supplanted it and stood on its shoulders are so much more pronounced and existential, but.

• 1:40:16Griffin Newman?

  He also said, like, the environmental angle of this movie, he was like, this wasn't motivated by me feeling like the movie was a call to arms to shake people into action.

• 1:40:26David Sims?

  No, right. Again, that just doesn't seem to be his vibe. He's not a polemical filmmaker.

• 1:40:31Griffin Newman?

  But also, like, 17, 18 years later, I'm like, I can't believe how much fucking worse this got. And if I knew how little we were gonna do to fight this issue, I maybe would have made different choices.

• 1:40:42Speaker 03

  But yet, at the same time, it's sort of central driving energy about humans needing to sort of regain control over their own fates and not surrender to automation and thoughtlessness and helplessness is as relevant as ever.

• 1:40:56Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's the weird thing in the movie that simultaneously feels like quaint and still prescient to me at the same time, which is the greatest concern being apathy, right? Like, people just don't wanna fucking care. They don't wanna think. There's just like a complacency, which I think right now in America are one of our biggest issues, if not our single biggest issue, is that has basically been replaced with an overriding anger. There is like a rage that is fueling everything in all directions, where the sense of being this passive is a little hard to imagine. And yet, we are on the scary precipice of, are people gonna start opting out of having to do shit in order to have everything automated for them?

• 1:41:39David Sims?

  Sounds fine.

• 1:41:40Speaker 03

  It does, but I think, you know, the movie sort of indulges in the sort of AI proponent fantasy of, oh, like, when we have full automation, no one's gonna have to work, we're all just gonna be on a vacation.

• 1:41:51Griffin Newman?

  But then you're like, what is life?

• 1:41:53Speaker 03

  We've already seen that that is not at all the reality.

• 1:41:55Griffin Newman?

  No, and it is wild to watch it now. And it's like, there's like networky elements of this where you're like, oh, this doesn't even read a satire anymore. But the idea that they're like by the pool and everyone's just looking at their screens and not going in.

• 1:42:09David Sims?

  They don't even know the pool's there.

• 1:42:11Griffin Newman?

  Right. I'm just like, that felt really like exaggerated in 2008, when smartphones have barely existed for two years.

• 1:42:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:42:19Griffin Newman?

  And now you're just like, yeah, of course. The fucking traffic jams of no one looking where they're going because they're all just watching the screens. You're like, right, I get the, the heightening here is the hover chair. But the relationship to the screen does not feel heightened. And at the time, it felt silly. World's good.

• 1:42:36David Sims?

  World is good. Wally is good.

• 1:42:38Griffin Newman?

  Wally has one friend.

• 1:42:39David Sims?

  Cockroach.

• 1:42:40Griffin Newman?

  His name is Hal.

• 1:42:41David Sims?

  Kukaracha. What's his name?

• 1:42:42Griffin Newman?

  Hal, because of Hal Roach.

• 1:42:45David Sims?

  Funny.

• 1:42:45Griffin Newman?

  It's a fun joke.

• 1:42:47David Sims?

  Uh, I mean, you know, I'm not, not laughing out loud.

• 1:42:50Griffin Newman?

  You gig, you went, huh, and you smiled.

• 1:42:54David Sims?

  You got me.

• 1:42:55Griffin Newman?

  May the listener note that you smiled.

• 1:42:57David Sims?

  You already mentioned, Stanton says, they watched Akeaton in the chapel in every single day. They were very, you know, like interested in like pantomime conveying everything, right? Like, how, like, can we make a movie where you turn the sound off and know what's going on? The kind of Chuck Jones.

• 1:43:12Griffin Newman?

  Well, right, there's.

• 1:43:13David Sims?

  Axiom. Axiom, of course, also is the name of the ship.

• 1:43:15Griffin Newman?

  There's a true challenge of like, let's actually test our fucking bones as animators to see if we can tell a story through movement. And when you remove the kind of recognizable autonomy of a human body, then how do you convey these things? What I'm talking about of him not wanting to do the cheats of giving them normal hu- human movements and whatever. And then he's also like, by doing that, you also test every other department more. If you're not going to have words, even though we wrote those words into the script, and I'm asking the music to convey those things, I'm asking the camera to convey those things, I'm asking color to convey those things. Ralph Eggleston, who was one of like the early, early Pixar guys, and is the production designer of most of their movies, and was

• 1:43:56Griffin Newman?

  part of that Cal Arts group, um, he passed away 2022, I believe, very tragically.

• 1:44:03David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:44:04Griffin Newman?

  Was a genius. Ralph Eggleston.

• 1:44:06David Sims?

  Ralph Eggleston.

• 1:44:07Griffin Newman?

  And the, the. Criterion release has a really nice feature that's basically like a eulogy for him, but also explaining how important he was. I brought this up a little bit in the Finding Nemo episode, but the thing of the color scripts where they do a kind of visual script of the movie based on the color palette of every sequence so that you can chart the tonality of like what you want to convey through mood and color.

• 1:44:29David Sims?

  He didn't need to do one of those for John Carter. Red.

• 1:44:32Griffin Newman?

  It's a lot of red. But Stanton said, and I'd never heard it put this cleanly before. He's like, it seems a little indulgent to people on the outside, but in animation, it is not a standard thing. Eggleston basically made it a new thing because he was such a student of production design that he found out that William Cameron Menzies did these on his sci-fi movies of like the 40s and 50s.

• 1:44:56David Sims?

  They're crazy 40s British, you know, like Things to Come and all those.

• 1:45:01Griffin Newman?

  Which are super kind of like expressionistic in their color.

• 1:45:03David Sims?

  Can't believe this got made. Yeah.

• 1:45:04Griffin Newman?

  Right. And would think about like, what are you conveying in color from setup to setup? And Eggleston was like, this was a cool thing and those movies look really cool. We should try to bring this back. And everyone thought it seemed a little indulgent. And when he did it, he was like, right, animation is so piecemeal that you don't actually see the final version of everything until the last moment. You're not getting like location scouting. You're not shooting things and being able to recognize like the color temperature in front of the lens at the time. It takes so long to add color and lighting and all of that to have that as like a guiding force at the beginning to know you're working towards really helps.

• 1:45:42David Sims?

  One thing I want to note in here that we haven't mentioned, but it's not something I ever thought about because I don't like, I've never seen this movie. A lot of people noted that like possibly accidentally Wally does look like Johnny Five from Short Circuit.

• 1:45:56Griffin Newman?

  One of Ben's best friends.

• 1:45:58Speaker 04

  He is one of my best friends, though I'm short circuit to having revisited it on.

• 1:46:04David Sims?

  There's some issues? An episode of Flophouse.

• 1:46:07Griffin Newman?

  It solves racism.

• 1:46:08David Sims?

  Oh, no.

• 1:46:09Speaker 04

  It was something that I didn't pick up on as a young kid.

• 1:46:12David Sims?

  Sure, I think that's one of those movie series where you're like, what's this here?

• 1:46:15Speaker 03

  Fisher Stevens lives in my neighborhood and every time I see him at a coffee shop, I'm just like immediately short circuited.

• 1:46:21David Sims?

  The human bobblehead.

• 1:46:22Speaker 03

  I feel so bad for him because he's done so much work.

• 1:46:24Speaker 04

  You're right, though. I've never thought about that. They're very similar.

• 1:46:28Griffin Newman?

  It's the eyes. It's the eyes and, and sort of on the long neck.

• 1:46:32David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:32Griffin Newman?

  I, I found that infuriating as a talking point at the time. It was a little mini version of the Avatar is literally just Ferngully thing. Where I'm like, the fucking, come on, like, there's a thousand other things going on in this movie.

• 1:46:45David Sims?

  I agree. I agree. Um, so Wally.

• 1:46:48Speaker 04

  But Johnny Five innocent.

• 1:46:50David Sims?

  Sure. He never did anything. Oh, wait, I'm seeing that Johnny Five here was at a, a J six. No?

• 1:46:56Griffin Newman?

  You basically get.

• 1:46:57Speaker 04

  Wait, where was he on January 6th?

• 1:46:59David Sims?

  He's trying to get up the stairs of the Capitol. He keeps like falling over. I don't know.

• 1:47:03Griffin Newman?

  It's a funny mistake. Yeah.

• 1:47:05David Sims?

  Here's the sightseeing. He's next to Jay Johnston.

• 1:47:08Griffin Newman?

  He's next to Jay Johnston.

• 1:47:09David Sims?

  Uh, all right.

• 1:47:11Griffin Newman?

  You, you basically see one day of his, right? And the little.

• 1:47:14David Sims?

  You see a normal day and then you see the weird day. It's a perfect way to do it, I feel like.

• 1:47:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Eve comes in at like minute 13. I mean, it's, it's so efficient. While you, you feel like you've spent a lot of fucking time with him. I think a lot of that is the silence makes all those moments really, you lean in and they matter more. But yes, him going back home, the, the organization of where do I put the spork and all this sort of stuff? The understanding of the level of feeling and thought he's putting into everything. And then his nightly ritual of like the iPod video playing the, the Hello Dolly sequence that he obsessively watches over and over again. I, I think it is such a beautiful, simplistic boiling down of like, if they're robots and they like, don't have any biological drive to procreate.

• 1:48:01David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:48:01Griffin Newman?

  And it doesn't make sense.

• 1:48:02David Sims?

  I know what to fuck.

• 1:48:03Griffin Newman?

  That they would like need romance.

• 1:48:05David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:06Griffin Newman?

  That he's recognizing something of like, what is being expressed in the statement of holding someone's hand as a show of intimacy or having companionship? It's such a nice like.

• 1:48:18Speaker 03

  Oh, you know, God gave him hands for a reason.

• 1:48:20David Sims?

  It's so good. I mean, are they hands? I guess they're kind of like loaders or they're part of his sort of, you know, his cubing power.

• 1:48:27Griffin Newman?

  He also said that basically in the time that they were developing this movie, the iPod video got introduced and he asked Jobs for permission. Can I put this in the movie when it was a brand new thing?

• 1:48:38Speaker 03

  Who among us did not watch the first episode of Battlestar Galactica on an iPad classic, iPod classic? On a flight screen that is like one inch.

• 1:48:47Griffin Newman?

  I was watching Lost on those on the fucking.

• 1:48:50David Sims?

  I remember Lost was kind of like the first show where they were like, like iTunes video, like, you know.

• 1:48:56Griffin Newman?

  Nine cents an episode.

• 1:48:57David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:48:58Griffin Newman?

  I was, I mean, I watched it on broadcast and then when an episode was good, I'd be like purchase, rewatch at school. But he asked Jobs permission because it was such a new device and he was like, I bet by the time this movie comes out, it's already antiquated technology. And he was like, sure enough, like iPhone comes out a year before this movie comes out, replaces the iPod video. It already was while he has an antique. Yeah.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  But here's the thing about Eve and Griffin, I feel like you can relate to this along with me, which is that I don't know if there is a better evocation in film, animated or otherwise, of what it feels like to be a neurotic teenage boy and have an intense crush on somebody.

• 1:49:39Griffin Newman?

  This is where, this is where I'm saying, I'm not getting to say for better or for worse. This was the primary concern of my life when I was 20 years old.

• 1:49:49Speaker 03

  Like you're awed by the girls you like terrified of them.

• 1:49:53Griffin Newman?

  Talk to them.

• 1:49:54Speaker 03

  They are involved in things that are so far above your station.

• 1:49:57Griffin Newman?

  Until I have a crush on someone and then I just.

• 1:49:59Speaker 03

  Show them green plants and they go catatonic.

• 1:50:01Griffin Newman?

  I mean, Sims, you had to like deal with even a little later in my life, the versions of this where we'd be at a bar and I'd be like, I don't even know what, how would, how would I start a sentence?

• 1:50:10David Sims?

  Instead of talking to a woman who I think may have been interested in you, can't remember these specific.

• 1:50:16Griffin Newman?

  I mean, of course, the tragic irony was they often were.

• 1:50:18David Sims?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:50:19Griffin Newman?

  And I would fuck it up.

• 1:50:20David Sims?

  Bullshit. Drew a picture. I wish I could find it. Let me see if I could find it. Of just a sad little guy.

• 1:50:27Griffin Newman?

  Oh, I remember that. Jesus Christ.

• 1:50:29David Sims?

  You do remember that?

• 1:50:29Griffin Newman?

  This was at videology.

• 1:50:30David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:50:31Speaker 03

  With the girl, you met at videology, drew a picture?

• 1:50:33David Sims?

  No, no, Griff was just instead of like, you know, being a person who talks to another person. He was just instead drew a weird little picture.

• 1:50:39Speaker 04

  You cast a note like.

• 1:50:41David Sims?

  No, no, no.

• 1:50:43Griffin Newman?

  Let's clarify this story.

• 1:50:45David Sims?

  Just gave it to.

• 1:50:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, well, people keep talking over me. Videology trivia. And for like 10 consecutive weeks, I turned to David and I'd be like, I have such a crush on that girl. I cannot speak to.

• 1:50:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:54Griffin Newman?

  And David would be like, go talk to her. I'd be like, I don't know how to do that. And it was one night where David was trying to like hype me up to be like, just like walk over and say something about trivia. And instead I drew a sad face.

• 1:51:07Speaker 04

  You're missing out because you know what's great? Then when they're mean to you.

• 1:51:10Griffin Newman?

  Well.

• 1:51:11Speaker 04

  You're like, oh.

• 1:51:12Griffin Newman?

  That's Wally learns.

• 1:51:14Speaker 03

  Sometimes they have fully loaded cannons for arms and they blow up giant ships.

• 1:51:18Griffin Newman?

  No, I do think this movie is one of the greatest depictions of that. And I love the Buster Keaton movies that lean romantic because they weaponize a similar dynamic. Except the difference is that Buster Keaton often seems kind of oblivious, right? That he's lovestruck and then it's just sort of like him chasing after and he doesn't realize how much the world is trying to stop him. Whereas Wally is like smitten and also terrified.

• 1:51:43Speaker 03

  And it's like, yeah, it's the combination of of being smitten, being terrified and being, there was the third thing. And then you sort of just took the words out of my mouth. But anyway, odd, odd is the other thing that I think completes the.

• 1:51:55Griffin Newman?

  It is maybe my single favorite moment in the movie and speaks to what I was saying earlier. He sees the red dot. He's chasing it. You realize the ship is landing, right? He's hiding behind the rock. He sees her come out. Everything is very kind of routine, right? The arm comes out. It unleashes her. She activates. Her design is still so fucking cool where it's like seamless unibody thing. And then the head. Arms can float off to the sides and the hands, the arms can turn into fingers if need be and all that sort of shit.

• 1:52:26David Sims?

  I found a picture of Wilder. I'm so far back in my photos right now. That's Wilder.

• 1:52:31Griffin Newman?

  Alan Smith?

• 1:52:32David Sims?

  Alan's son. Yeah.

• 1:52:33Speaker 04

  What happened?

• 1:52:34Griffin Newman?

  Wild.

• 1:52:35David Sims?

  I know.

• 1:52:36Griffin Newman?

  Ben's our nemesis.

• 1:52:37David Sims?

  This is 2015, so he's probably like, I think he was like one or two. He was like two, maybe two.

• 1:52:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:43David Sims?

  He came to my friend's wedding.

• 1:52:43Griffin Newman?

  If you're trying to find the trivia drawing, that would be like 2012.

• 1:52:46David Sims?

  I know, I know. I went too far.

• 1:52:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:52:48David Sims?

  I went too far.

• 1:52:49Griffin Newman?

  I think my favorite moment in the entire film is like Eve is there. She's like locked in on her mission. The ship starts to leave and you see her kind of clocking once she's out of the view. And then it's like she takes a breath and has just the joy flight. And it's that moment of, oh shit, she's like him. For some reason.

• 1:53:10David Sims?

  She's a little different.

• 1:53:11Griffin Newman?

  She finds joy in doing things. She is doing things for her own satisfaction. And if he wasn't already going to be smitten just by like, I've never seen a fucking robot like that. There's a personality there. And as much as she then tries to immediately cover it and be like, I am all business. It is every robot we meet who is a primary character. It's the same thing with Mo. When we get to Mo and he makes the decision to jump off the line. Because he loves cleaning so much.

• 1:53:37David Sims?

  He does love. He do. That's his art. That's how he, you know.

• 1:53:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:53:40David Sims?

  Whatever. Finds joy.

• 1:53:42Griffin Newman?

  Every one of those activation moments is so satisfying to me.

• 1:53:45David Sims?

  I.

• 1:53:45Speaker 03

  Is Mo driven by joy?

• 1:53:47Griffin Newman?

  Here it is.

• 1:53:47Speaker 03

  Is Mo driven by?

• 1:53:48David Sims?

  I found it. This is the drawing Griffin made rather than flirt with a girl.

• 1:53:55Speaker 04

  Huh. Okay. We'll make sure to post that. I don't know what to say.

• 1:53:59Griffin Newman?

  What is it saying this?

• 1:54:00David Sims?

  Number three?

• 1:54:01Griffin Newman?

  No idea what the fuck was going on.

• 1:54:02David Sims?

  Joke might be like, you're not even number two, you're number three. I don't quite know.

• 1:54:06Speaker 03

  It could be a Kid Cudi reference?

• 1:54:08Griffin Newman?

  I don't think it was. We can post that.

• 1:54:10Speaker 03

  No, Chance the rapper. Chance the rapper.

• 1:54:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, but it would have predated that.

• 1:54:14David Sims?

  I think it predates.

• 1:54:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Well, we'll post it on the Instagram. But yes, Wally's just like chasing after her. And then there's the moment where he, she hears him exhale and then just immediately fucking like turbo cannons him.

• 1:54:30David Sims?

  Love when she turbo cannons him hottest part.

• 1:54:32Griffin Newman?

  It's their meet cute is she thinks she's murdered him.

• 1:54:35David Sims?

  Gosh, just imagine dating an egg robot with an arm cannon. Pretty cool. Obviously she's.

• 1:54:43Speaker 03

  Got to build a cold shower into the back of Blank Check TV.

• 1:54:46David Sims?

  Indirectly inspired by Apple products, but obviously she's also kind of like a nesting doll design. Like she's got this sort of matriarcha shape, the egg.

• 1:54:56David Sims?

  This is from Angus McLean, who that is that the guy who the Presto guy?

• 1:55:01Griffin Newman?

  No, that's.

• 1:55:02David Sims?

  Which one is he?

• 1:55:03Griffin Newman?

  Am I wrong in thinking? No, Presto wasn't Teddy Newton, is it? Is Presto Teddy Newton?

• 1:55:08David Sims?

  Let's find out. Presto film. Cause I remember like that, that director Doug Sweetland.

• 1:55:14Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Doug Sweetland.

• 1:55:15David Sims?

  Me always being like, when's he making a movie? And then he ended up making Storks. You know, he left. I never saw Storks.

• 1:55:21Speaker 03

  Storks was a Nicholas Stoller joint.

• 1:55:23Griffin Newman?

  He wrote it.

• 1:55:23David Sims?

  He wrote it.

• 1:55:25Griffin Newman?

  Did he co-direct it with Sweetland or Sweetland the only director?

• 1:55:28David Sims?

  He might have.

• 1:55:29Griffin Newman?

  How was that era where they kept snuck a? They were like, we only let an animation guy co-direct a movie with a live action guy or a comedy guy.

• 1:55:36David Sims?

  Correct. It's clear. It's to both of them. Angus McLean is the guy who co-directed Finding Dory and then directed Lightyear, AKA.

• 1:55:44Speaker 03

  What year was Storks?

• 1:55:46David Sims?

  2016.

• 1:55:46Speaker 03

  Cause Storks was in the like, in my come to Jesus, after my come to Jesus moment of recognizing that forgetting Sarah Marshall is the greatest of all works of art and culture of the last 100 years and being like, I will see literally anything Nicholas Stoller makes next. And he's like, I'm directing a movie about storks, baby. And I was like, well, I guess there's a line somewhere.

• 1:56:05Griffin Newman?

  That movie.

• 1:56:06Speaker 03

  Never saw it.

• 1:56:06Griffin Newman?

  I found to be a bit of a rough hand. Doug Sweetland is like an incredible character animator and especially incredible at like animated comedy, physical comedy and has is responsible.

• 1:56:17David Sims?

  That's why Presto is so funny. All the hijinks.

• 1:56:19Griffin Newman?

  But like a lot of the best Pixar physical comedy moments, I feel like the one that's always pointed at is Woody acting out in Toy Story two, when they're like playing Woody's roundup and he comes out of the box and is like being all hot shit. Angus McLean and Doug Sweetland felt like the two guys where it was like, when are they going to let them make a movie? And they let Doug Sweetland get away.

• 1:56:43David Sims?

  Right. And then Angus makes Lightyear, which is worse than making a movie.

• 1:56:46Griffin Newman?

  It's so bizarre.

• 1:56:47David Sims?

  It's like making a negative movie.

• 1:56:49Griffin Newman?

  But he did Bernie, which was the short that accompanied this.

• 1:56:51David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:56:52Griffin Newman?

  Really good.

• 1:56:52David Sims?

  Yeah, that's fun.

• 1:56:53Griffin Newman?

  And he did Toy Story of Terror, Jesse Finds a Way.

• 1:56:56Speaker 03

  I feel like you should watch some of those early Pixar movies. You might like them.

• 1:57:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's a total blind spot for me. I'm just reading off the dossier.

• 1:57:04David Sims?

  Anyway.

• 1:57:04Speaker 03

  Jesse Does Find a Way.

• 1:57:05David Sims?

  To quote Angus McLean, she looks dangly, Eve, she looks dangly and wind chimey when she's in automaton mode. When she gets emotional, she does more arcs like a porpoise flying around.

• 1:57:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, well, that's when this moment of joy where she just kind of like flies around like a fucking flower.

• 1:57:20David Sims?

  Uh, they loved the cockroach idea also. Just like, that's a fun challenge. Like making a cockroach cute.

• 1:57:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it doesn't have a face.

• 1:57:27David Sims?

  Doesn't have a face. Um, so, uh, one, one other note on production design. Act one is all romantic and emotional lighting and then act two, they say act one and act two, you're right that the movie is really in thirds, but I guess they basically mean like planet, then spaceship.

• 1:57:45Griffin Newman?

  Act two is like gets to know the axiom. Act three is like the uprising.

• 1:57:50David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, but they, you know, act, act two is essentially the axiom is sterility, order, cleanliness.

• 1:57:56Speaker 03

  It's when it goes from being Buster Keaton to Jacques Tati.

• 1:57:59Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:57:59David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:58:00Griffin Newman?

  But you're also, yes, sorry.

• 1:58:01David Sims?

  They try to make the lighting more romantic as act two goes on. Like, you know, they try to, they sort of soften it as, as, you know, your personality enters.

• 1:58:09Griffin Newman?

  Well, the movie starts out really washed out. Then you start to get some warmth when Eve enters. I think the most beautiful sequence of the movie is when there's like the big dust storm and he brings Eve inside and the way Eve reacts to the, the darkness of the room where she's like glowing and you see the weird ring of like fluorescents inside of her neck and also the reflections of the Christmas lights and everything off of her.

• 1:58:33Speaker 03

  The singing fish, which is between this and The Sopranos was having a huge cultural moment.

• 1:58:37Griffin Newman?

  Billy Bass was one of our greatest. But yeah, she basically almost accidentally shoots him and then is just like, I, the fuck are you? And then you get your sequence, the Livia and Rose of him just kind of like following after, trying to get her attention.

• 1:58:51Speaker 03

  Who among us hasn't had a crush? They, what the fuck are you?

• 1:58:54Griffin Newman?

  She's just like, I'm working.

• 1:58:56Speaker 04

  I do feel like it's important to point out though, that Eve comes into contact with Hal, almost shoots Hal, the cockroach, but instead.

• 1:59:05Griffin Newman?

  She likes him.

• 1:59:06Speaker 04

  She likes him and, and they both, Wally and Eve get tickled by the cockroach. This is really sweet, but it's showing that she's kind.

• 1:59:14Griffin Newman?

  Right, right, right. But that happens before she meets Wally. It's like Wally making such an advanced overture to her. She's like, no, get away. I'm working. She wishes almost he hadn't seen her be nice to Hal.

• 1:59:26Speaker 03

  Maybe the best.

• 1:59:27Griffin Newman?

  Wants to put on the face of all.

• 1:59:28Speaker 03

  Maybe the best shot in the movie is right after she's exploded all of the oil tankers.

• 1:59:33Griffin Newman?

  I agree with you.

• 1:59:34Speaker 03

  Shot from behind of Wally in silhouette, just sort of saddling up slowly beside her.

• 1:59:39Griffin Newman?

  But also that he recognizes that's the moment where it's like, oh, she's shown like emotion in being so frustrated that she caused this much damage, that she had her fucking Adam Driver punching the wall moment.

• 1:59:54Speaker 03

  But also that he has so little game that he's like, now is my time to strike.

• 1:59:58Griffin Newman?

  But it's also so funny to see her and it's like, it's like they convey physical tension in her body, even though that shouldn't be possible. As she's watching the ships burn and she's just sort of like her eyes narrowing, like wanting the catharsis of watching something be destroyed.

• 2:00:14Speaker 04

  When she, when her eye go grumpy mode.

• 2:00:17Griffin Newman?

  The eyes are so good.

• 2:00:18Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:00:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. But he, he senses the opening of like, okay, if we can just exchange names, we're cooking here.

• 2:00:26Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 2:00:27Griffin Newman?

  And she's charmed by the fact that he can't say it.

• 2:00:30David Sims?

  Wow.

• 2:00:31Griffin Newman?

  It's a little funny. He brings her into his home. She loves his collection.

• 2:00:35David Sims?

  Yep.

• 2:00:35Griffin Newman?

  It's possible.

• 2:00:37Speaker 03

  And then the ultimate fantasy of showing, showing her one object that is going to so blow her mind.

• 2:00:42Griffin Newman?

  Right, that she's false.

• 2:00:44Speaker 03

  Well, that's, that's maybe not part of the fantasy.

• 2:00:46David Sims?

  You show her a boot with plant in it and she goes unconscious.

• 2:00:48Griffin Newman?

  But all of those gags of, of handing her the light bulb and then getting so kind of like frustrated that he can't turn it on.

• 2:00:55David Sims?

  I like.

• 2:00:56Griffin Newman?

  For fixing the Rubik's Cube.

• 2:00:57David Sims?

  I like when she laughs, when she goes like, like or whatever.

• 2:01:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. The pop in the bubble wrap, like she's finally just totally let her guard down and is as fascinated by every object he shows her, but also able to solve them so much faster.

• 2:01:11Speaker 04

  We also see him turn into a cube.

• 2:01:14David Sims?

  Oh, you mean when he goes into like sleep mode?

• 2:01:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yeah. And we know that he's charged by the sun.

• 2:01:19Speaker 04

  I think it's just awesome design.

• 2:01:21David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:21Speaker 04

  That he not only makes cubes, but is a cube.

• 2:01:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Which like, this is a classic Pixar logic thing. Stan is always the first to point out, it makes no physical sense. If you keep seeing the way his stomach opens up to be able to compress the trash, there's no space that his body could actually suck into. Sure.

• 2:01:42Speaker 03

  I don't know. We make bones now that can like fold on top of themselves, man. Anything's possible.

• 2:01:46Griffin Newman?

  They, they communicate it to you in movement so much that you're like, I just understand what you're asking me to accept. But yes, he's showing her all the objects. He's trying to show her Hello Dolly. She doesn't give a shit. She can't even like pay attention to it. And then he makes the mistake of showing her, of course, plant and boot.

• 2:02:03Speaker 03

  Do you think that if he had shown her a scene with Walter Matthau, she would have been a lot more locked in?

• 2:02:06Griffin Newman?

  She'd be like, and this guy was like a major movie star?

• 2:02:09Speaker 03

  Okay, I now understand.

• 2:02:11Griffin Newman?

  He did like all genres? He'd be like the romantic lead in things? Matthau?

• 2:02:28David Sims?

  I'm watching a clip or I'm watching the movie here. He makes a little Eve statue.

• 2:02:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:02:34David Sims?

  And she is unimpressed and then he kicks a bunch of metal pipes and it falls all on her. Come on, that's great stuff.

• 2:02:42Speaker 03

  And his little, his little treads like flip up. It's adorable.

• 2:02:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  I mean, it's very childlike and even as he's like sort, he's sort of transitioning into like an almost parental mode, although we see him into parental mode with the cockroach. But I don't know, if you've ever seen your child like fall off a bed or something, it's like, you're so concerned for them, but immediately it's, it's very funny visual. I don't know.

• 2:03:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes. It also helps that where you're just like, this guy, his center of gravity is so off. His build is so awkward that doing anything other than rolling on a flat surface, you're just like, I don't know if he's gonna make it.

• 2:03:19Speaker 03

  But there's also, I mean, I don't know how deep we need to go into the imagined lore of by and large, but some practical application towards designing him to be cute on the company's behalf.

• 2:03:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, because they don't want these things to be threatening.

• 2:03:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:03:31Griffin Newman?

  Versus the, the robots on the Axiom are less cute because people aren't even really paying attention.

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  Right. They're all in the bowels of the ship.

• 2:03:40David Sims?

  Do we think there's a flaw in Eve's design? No offense to my perfect queen.

• 2:03:44Griffin Newman?

  Go on.

• 2:03:45David Sims?

  The one boot with one plant is enough to turn around like a ship with 600,000 people on it. Be like, well, Earth seems ready because like I'm looking at Earth. It ain't like ready, ready.

• 2:03:57Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:03:58David Sims?

  We might want to wait for like a tree or two.

• 2:04:00Griffin Newman?

  But that's like centuries ago. Her programming was set in.

• 2:04:03David Sims?

  It's just funny that she's like, well, you know, like there's one plant, baby.

• 2:04:07Speaker 03

  Listen, that's not a flaw in Eve's design.

• 2:04:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  She's doing her job perfectly. That's maybe a flaw in the Axiom.

• 2:04:13David Sims?

  Criticizing the work she's doing.

• 2:04:14Griffin Newman?

  You also have to imagine that their thought is we'll put everyone on a starliner for five to 10 years maximum. And if we see the first sign of vegetation, that means, oh, it's coming back. It's ready to go back there. They didn't know that the world was going to come that fucking awful. And the idea of this one boot making it would be so against the odds.

• 2:04:34David Sims?

  They knew. What if there is a guy on the Axiom?

• 2:04:37Griffin Newman?

  Resent us.

• 2:04:37Speaker 03

  They knew and they did nothing. Mark Ruffalo.

• 2:04:40Griffin Newman?

  Resent us, bud.

• 2:04:42Speaker 04

  So, uh, yeah, what else happened?

• 2:04:45Griffin Newman?

  Now she's just.

• 2:04:45Speaker 04

  In the opening.

• 2:04:46Speaker 03

  Then she goes sleep mode.

• 2:04:47Griffin Newman?

  Coma mode.

• 2:04:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:04:49Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and Wally still tries to like, you have the, the, um, uh, Thomas Newman kind of muzak. Wally doing date nights with coma Eve.

• 2:05:01Speaker 04

  Oh, we gotta call out, he dances for her.

• 2:05:03Griffin Newman?

  He does the little.

• 2:05:04Speaker 04

  It's so sweet and he had picked up the like trash lid and it pays off. He's like, uh, doffing his hat.

• 2:05:11Speaker 03

  He's a cool guy.

• 2:05:12Griffin Newman?

  The top hat. Um, I also love that.

• 2:05:15Speaker 04

  Then she tries to dance and she fucking shakes the whole thing and smashes him into the wall.

• 2:05:19Speaker 03

  She's a clomper.

• 2:05:21David Sims?

  Dude, it is so funny though, right? When she like Hulk Loki's him, right? Like.

• 2:05:27Griffin Newman?

  I also love the moment of him, forget how he injures the eye in the first place.

• 2:05:33Speaker 04

  I can't remember, but when he gets the new guy.

• 2:05:35Griffin Newman?

  But when he has to replace the eye and he's so embarrassed that she's like seeing him naked, having to plug the eye back in. But it also teaches you like what it's going to look like when he's recalibrating.

• 2:05:47Speaker 04

  Oh, it's when he falls. I'm watching it here.

• 2:05:49Griffin Newman?

  Oh, it's after, it's after the dance. Yes.

• 2:05:51Speaker 04

  Slaps, slams him into the wall. He falls down and breaks one of his eyes.

• 2:05:54Speaker 03

  There's a lot of very clever, some more overt seed planting there. I'm thinking particularly of like the fire extinguisher. Things that are just in front. I mean, even when they introduced the boat, the boot, it's not even the focus of, uh, it's like a, a half second throwaway.

• 2:06:08Griffin Newman?

  It's just part of his collection.

• 2:06:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they don't give it any special emphasis.

• 2:06:11Griffin Newman?

  No, he puts it in the fucking igloo cooler, but it doesn't get any more attention than the bra. It gets less attention than the bra.

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  I mean, the bra kills, so.

• 2:06:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:20Speaker 03

  That's why.

• 2:06:20Griffin Newman?

  Cause Wally's rocking double D eyes.

• 2:06:22Speaker 04

  What about the, um, the lighter?

• 2:06:25Griffin Newman?

  Ben.

• 2:06:25Speaker 04

  But there's like, it's like two robots and on this, you know, abandoned planet and they're looking at the original source of like energy.

• 2:06:36Speaker 03

  Very Promethean.

• 2:06:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. But the, the other thing Ben is in the version of the movie where Wally has to save Eve and she is the one who gets crushed. And he's carrying her for the last 20 minutes. There was some Chekhov's gun of the lighter being. The way they reactivated her. It's why they put a lot of emphasis on it at the beginning.

• 2:06:56David Sims?

  Got it.

• 2:06:57Griffin Newman?

  It's still a nice moment.

• 2:06:58David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:58Griffin Newman?

  Which is why I'm sure they kept it in. But it was supposed to be in some way, he replaces her battery with the lighter.

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  It's also a machine using a machine. It places him like a even more antiquated machine, sort of places him in this continuum where you understand him as a relic, but also as a product of the future.

• 2:07:13Griffin Newman?

  And it's a machine with a natural force inside of it.

• 2:07:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:16Griffin Newman?

  You know, it's, it's like organic versus.

• 2:07:18Speaker 03

  That's, I mean, it's exactly right. I mean, it's a machine that can create an element, which is so crucial, just as he, you know, metal box can feel love. It's, you know.

• 2:07:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:28Speaker 03

  An analog.

• 2:07:29Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's got a flame inside of him.

• 2:07:31Speaker 03

  A question that made me, that I, that made, a question that I had watching the first 30 minutes of this movie again, was if Disney would ever dare make a live action adaptation of a Pixar movie, or if it is a tribute to the ineffable quality of Pixar's better films, that they can't be conceived of in live action, in the way that Moana can.

• 2:07:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I had that thought watching this of like, are they ever going to dare to do this? And it's like, what would it be? You know, like it's the, the line between this and doing a more modern, it, it basically becomes just like a fucking PS5 rebuild of a PS2 game.

• 2:08:11David Sims?

  Right. Like, why bother? I mean.

• 2:08:13Griffin Newman?

  Right. Which.

• 2:08:14David Sims?

  What is now the disturbing thought experiment of like, what is the most live actionable?

• 2:08:19Griffin Newman?

  Up.

• 2:08:20David Sims?

  Uh.

• 2:08:20Griffin Newman?

  It's up.

• 2:08:21David Sims?

  Upper Incredibles.

• 2:08:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I, I have gotten the sense, and I say this with no inside track, but the, the vibe I've always gotten is that Pixar retains the right to say no to that shit. And it feels like they are.

• 2:08:34Speaker 03

  They have to exercise every morning at 9 a.m. when they get the daily email of, hey.

• 2:08:38Griffin Newman?

  Exercising it fully. I mean, this is the other thing.

• 2:08:40David Sims?

  Hey, is Moana one of yours? No, great.

• 2:08:42Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's no surprise that like Disney inherits this batch of films in acquiring Pixar. And Iger's like, great, we're going to put our full muscle behind them. We will try to make all of these movies hits. The fucking Toy Story 3 is next, right? Like the sequel run starts right after this.

• 2:09:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:00Griffin Newman?

  It was like, we'll treat these movies as precious gems, but you got to start fucking playing ball with us.

• 2:09:05David Sims?

  Well, Up is right after this, then Toy Story.

• 2:09:07Griffin Newman?

  But Up is the last of the three films acquired.

• 2:09:09David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:09:09Griffin Newman?

  I'm saying the first film that Disney commissions is like Toy Story 3 now.

• 2:09:13David Sims?

  It is like the, the Ratatouille Wally Up. Toy Story 3 is Bridge, a movie I like, although not as much as some. And then Cars 2 Brave Monsters You. Like, it's a crazy down ship.

• 2:09:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:09:25David Sims?

  Like crazy.

• 2:09:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's you gotta play ball now.

• 2:09:28Speaker 03

  You guys weren't fans of Cars 2?

• 2:09:31David Sims?

  I've never seen.

• 2:09:32Griffin Newman?

  I have been working on this theory and I rewatched the film recently.

• 2:09:36David Sims?

  Did you now?

• 2:09:37Griffin Newman?

  And I did. I truly did.

• 2:09:39Speaker 03

  You know that Michael Caine's in it.

• 2:09:40Griffin Newman?

  It's based in truth. He plays Finn McMissile.

• 2:09:42David Sims?

  Well, truth is in, truth in comedy.

• 2:09:44Griffin Newman?

  He plays Finn McMissile, who's a MI6 car. His sidekick, of course, is Holly Shiftwell, which is pretty bawdy.

• 2:09:56Speaker 03

  That makes me uncomfortable.

• 2:09:57Griffin Newman?

  I was watching Cars 2 and I was like, you know, this really isn't as good as Cars 1. And Cars 3, which I've never loved, has at least more integrity.

• 2:10:11Speaker 03

  Now, how do they all stack up against Planes 1?

• 2:10:13Griffin Newman?

  I was thinking that Planes Fire and Rescue makes planes look like Cars 2. And Cars 2.

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  It's getting too complicated.

• 2:10:24Griffin Newman?

  Might make Cars 3 look like Cars 1.

• 2:10:26David Sims?

  The only Pixar movies I have not seen are Cars 2 and 3.

• 2:10:30Speaker 03

  You've seen Onward?

• 2:10:32David Sims?

  Yeah, I like Onward.

• 2:10:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Onward's good.

• 2:10:33David Sims?

  I've seen Onward multiple times.

• 2:10:34Speaker 03

  You're the only two people I've ever met.

• 2:10:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I've seen it multiple times on the steel book.

• 2:10:38David Sims?

  That I can't say. I don't own this deal.

• 2:10:40Griffin Newman?

  Nice deal.

• 2:10:40David Sims?

  Big fan of that movie.

• 2:10:41Griffin Newman?

  The denim jacket with all the patches on.

• 2:10:42David Sims?

  I, I, yeah, because I've seen, yeah, I've seen everything else. Yeah. The ones that I've seen a lot is disturbing because of my daughter. So like, well, it's not disturbing that I've seen Luca like 25 times because I like Luca.

• 2:10:54Griffin Newman?

  But good dinosaur is disturbing. When you told me she was going through a good dinosaur phase.

• 2:10:57David Sims?

  That was a pretty brief phase, but it did exist. But like, the Turning Red phase was so great. The Ratatouille phase, amazing. Wally, great. Luca, that's a good movie. Like, it's not my favorite.

• 2:11:09Griffin Newman?

  It is a simple movie.

• 2:11:10David Sims?

  It's really easy to have on.

• 2:11:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:11:12Speaker 03

  I love it, though. I think.

• 2:11:13David Sims?

  I feel like Turning Red.

• 2:11:15Griffin Newman?

  You come around on Luca.

• 2:11:15Speaker 03

  Oh, I've always been a fan of Luca, but yeah, certainly.

• 2:11:18Griffin Newman?

  I feel like your son had a phase where you were happy.

• 2:11:20Speaker 03

  I think because it pushes against what we were talking about earlier about like the capitalistic, you know, fumes around Pixar stuff. It's fun, it's a little bit more.

• 2:11:28Griffin Newman?

  It feels like pointedly small.

• 2:11:30Speaker 03

  It sure does, although I wanted to, you know, we were bad mouthing with good reason, the good dinosaur, but a shout out to Peter Stone. I have definitely had a Stockholm syndrome like experience with Elemental, which was the first movie I ever took Ace to the big theaters, did not click at the time, but.

• 2:11:45Griffin Newman?

  Can I call this out?

• 2:11:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, put him on blast.

• 2:11:47Griffin Newman?

  I believe it was in our Wind Rises episode.

• 2:11:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I wasn't here for that.

• 2:11:55Griffin Newman?

  Were you up to guess on Wind Rises?

• 2:11:57Speaker 03

  I mean, if only. No, I was here for Castle, not the Castle, fucking House Moving Castle.

• 2:12:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, right.

• 2:12:04David Sims?

  Get up, right. That's the one where I announced Matrix Resurrections.

• 2:12:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I can't remember if it was that.

• 2:12:10Speaker 03

  It's so crazy that they let you make that announcement to the world of all people, but you did it well.

• 2:12:15David Sims?

  I mean, I was a big fan.

• 2:12:17Griffin Newman?

  There's some episode that people have invoked where you say, I will not let my son watch Western animation.

• 2:12:26Speaker 03

  This is a classic.

• 2:12:27Griffin Newman?

  He said all kinds of shit.

• 2:12:29Speaker 03

  Whereas like the one, the one thing I know, this child will not be loved, I will not be provided for, but they will, they will not see any sort of CGI Western animation.

• 2:12:38Griffin Newman?

  You wouldn't show your kid Ghibli movies because you were afraid he wouldn't like it.

• 2:12:42Speaker 03

  It turns out.

• 2:12:43Griffin Newman?

  It turns out that you're mentally ill. Is it time for me to throw the wallet?

• 2:12:48Speaker 03

  Turns out that the reality of raising a child is very different than.

• 2:12:51Griffin Newman?

  No, your reality is a weird reality, my friend.

• 2:12:54Speaker 03

  At two years old, I was like, son, this is an Apple TV remote. That is the bed where I am asleep in the morning. Use this to watch whatever the fuck you want, as long as you're not waking back.

• 2:13:05Griffin Newman?

  You were just so confident that you were gonna hold the line of artistic purity. And then your son is like obsessed with Italian brain rot. And he's got good taste and watches many good things.

• 2:13:14David Sims?

  I have watched your son watch YouTube videos of ten wordles being solved.

• 2:13:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I also had this competing instinct in me, which is like, I cannot be that parent who foists the cool kid stuff.

• 2:13:25Griffin Newman?

  You don't want to be the Onion article.

• 2:13:26Speaker 03

  Their child, exactly.

• 2:13:27Griffin Newman?

  The fucking talking heads to add.

• 2:13:28Speaker 03

  It means more to me that you come to my favorite movies organically and like them on your own terms. And I'll show them to you, you know, selectively when the time is right, but I'm not gonna shove them down your throat. I'm gonna let you reach these places on your own. Elemental was what was playing. I wanted to take it to him. He came back around on Elemental in a huge fucking way. And he really.

• 2:13:50David Sims?

  My daughter did have an elemental.

• 2:13:52Griffin Newman?

  I just want to call out a very distant conversation I remember having with you, which was, I feel like I'm almost ready to take Asa to see a movie, but his first movie needs to matter. And I was like, elemental.

• 2:14:04Speaker 03

  What matters more than elemental?

• 2:14:05Griffin Newman?

  And you looked at me and said, my son's first movie is not going to be a Pete's own.

• 2:14:09Speaker 03

  Wow. Well.

• 2:14:11Griffin Newman?

  And then like six weeks later, you were like, took Asa to Elemental. And I said, why? And you said, it was raining or something.

• 2:14:17Speaker 03

  It sure was. It was, you woke up, it was a Sunday afternoon, it was raining and that, those are dark times for a parent.

• 2:14:23David Sims?

  I love seeing a movie.

• 2:14:24Speaker 03

  But listen, New York City's own Pete's own, respect.

• 2:14:27Griffin Newman?

  But I also took your son to.

• 2:14:29Speaker 03

  You took him to Totoro because I could not.

• 2:14:31Griffin Newman?

  You were like, I couldn't sit there and watch him potentially not like it.

• 2:14:35David Sims?

  Mental illness. Wallet.

• 2:14:38Griffin Newman?

  It was the same screening that you took your daughter to a movie theater for the first time.

• 2:14:41David Sims?

  I'm having, I'm commuting with my kids.

• 2:14:43Griffin Newman?

  Stay away from me. And I took our like son and you were like, if, if he doesn't like it, just don't tell me.

• 2:14:48David Sims?

  Sure. I mean, my daughter, but like the difference being my daughter had seen Totoro like 20 times. So it was one of her first movies.

• 2:14:55Speaker 03

  And my, my daughter, uh, who is a lot more pliable and responsive to, you know, the studio give believe it all, is obsessed with and turned me on to, really converted me to the power of Ponyo, uh, which she now wants to watch either that or Totoro.

• 2:15:08David Sims?

  That was my daughter's first movie. Right. But Totoro was like second. Uh, yeah, dude.

• 2:15:14Speaker 03

  Elemental has some charm. Great music.

• 2:15:17David Sims?

  I have really struggled to locate the charm of Elemental and I've seen it a lot.

• 2:15:21Speaker 03

  It has some, Wade is a little bit of a nuisance, but it's.

• 2:15:24David Sims?

  The main character?

• 2:15:27Speaker 03

  But I like, I like when Ember speaks Irish.

• 2:15:31David Sims?

  I find all of the.

• 2:15:32Speaker 03

  I like the music when she's driving on her little motorbike.

• 2:15:37Speaker 03

  Listen, you.

• 2:15:39Speaker 04

  Do you own that film?

• 2:15:41Griffin Newman?

  Elemental? I do not, Ben. It's actually a really good question.

• 2:15:44David Sims?

  I own it.

• 2:15:45Griffin Newman?

  I was.

• 2:15:46David Sims?

  But, uh, cause Disney sent me a free copy.

• 2:15:47Griffin Newman?

  Okay. I was maintaining.

• 2:15:49David Sims?

  I do have a blue.

• 2:15:50Griffin Newman?

  I was maintaining, not even a 4K.

• 2:15:53David Sims?

  Uh, no, they sent me a blue and I was like, I'll put it on the shelf.

• 2:15:55Griffin Newman?

  They were like, do you care about the K's on this one? Uh, I was maintaining a own every Pixar film. And even in the pandemic, I like broke down and bought 3D Blu-rays of Good Dinosaur. And maybe Cars 2, another one I like, didn't like. And Elemental was the one where I was like, I don't need to own this in any form.

• 2:16:14David Sims?

  Thank God, I'm truly relieved.

• 2:16:16Griffin Newman?

  Now, who knows, two months from now, I might hit a rough patch and start trolling eBay for the Elemental seal book. But as of this moment, I own Elemental in no form. I don't even own a digital.

• 2:16:24Speaker 03

  I'll say right now, my daughter's first movie in theaters will by no means be Minions, Monsters and Minions.

• 2:16:31David Sims?

  Well, she's, wait, your kid's three now.

• 2:16:34Speaker 03

  Thus guaranteeing, that's exactly what it's gonna be.

• 2:16:36David Sims?

  Minions and Monsters, I've seen the trailer for at every movie I've taken and I'm always like. And, and I think it's time for me to catch up with the minions.

• 2:16:44Griffin Newman?

  Bounce off of me. I have never gotten it without any judgment.

• 2:16:47David Sims?

  Say banana.

• 2:16:48Griffin Newman?

  But I, I see that trailer and I'm like, do I gotta do the fucking deep cut?

• 2:16:51Speaker 03

  It is a little galaxy brain to be like, the minions obviously love early's like Sword and Sandal cinema. Of course.

• 2:16:59David Sims?

  I think that's fine.

• 2:17:01Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 2:17:02Griffin Newman?

  Is this their like Wally moment? You know, where Pierre Coffin's like, I've made you so much fucking money.

• 2:17:07David Sims?

  Right. I want to make my passion project. Right. Yeah.

• 2:17:10Griffin Newman?

  Can I use the minions to express my interest in the, in the birth of cinema?

• 2:17:14David Sims?

  I feel like nobody liked the second minions, right? Rise of Gru. That was the one I feel like really passed it on by.

• 2:17:20Griffin Newman?

  That's the only one I've ever seen.

• 2:17:21Speaker 03

  But you could slap the word minions on anything and it would meant to hit. You could have the minions, minions and mosquito coast, speaking of the episode of your show that most recently aired. And that thing would print money.

• 2:17:31Griffin Newman?

  Minions and Solo.

• 2:17:33Speaker 03

  Well, um, maybe Monsters and minions will have a shout out to Solo. It doesn't really fit into the vibe, but why not?

• 2:17:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:39Speaker 03

  A minions movie needs it. Sing three could be entirely solo dependent. I feel like that would fit very organically.

• 2:17:45Griffin Newman?

  That's another one where I'm just like, I don't get this fucking thing.

• 2:17:48David Sims?

  Okay, so they get to the axiom. I think we need to get to the axiom now, right? Axiom time.

• 2:17:53Griffin Newman?

  He's just trying to take care of her, right? As she is now infirm, basically, and shut down until her ship returns to retrieve her.

• 2:18:01Speaker 04

  But he's staying out in the elements. He's getting struck by lightning. He's getting rained on. But he's then covering her up with a garbage can.

• 2:18:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's really sweet.

• 2:18:11David Sims?

  He's a sweet boy.

• 2:18:12Griffin Newman?

  But her ship comes and he has to make a split second decision, which is like, I'm gonna grab onto the back of a fucking spaceship because I don't want to lose her and I don't know where she's going.

• 2:18:21Speaker 03

  Him telling the cockroach to stay put where it is is as anthropomorphized as I think Wally ever gets.

• 2:18:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And now, two hours into the episode, we've hit the 30 minute mark, which is when he blasts off into space.

• 2:18:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:18:33Griffin Newman?

  And you have the beautiful, sort of, five minute sequence of him seeing the solar system, touching the rings of Saturn. Uh, just beautiful shit. We argued in the Finding Nemo episode that that's Thomas Newman's best score. And I think it's the best, like, use of the Thomas Noonan thing. No, Thomas Noonan. The great Tom Noonan, who recently died. Uh, I think Finding Nemo is the best version of what Thomas Newman does really well. I was surprised rewatching this, how different it is from most of his work. It has the strains of the motifs, but I think partially because the movie is putting so much more weight on the score to convey story.

• 2:19:18Griffin Newman?

  It has like five different tonalities that it switches in between. And it feels like this sequence where it's, you know, the kind of like magical beauty of the stars is when Newman goes into Newman mode for the first time.

• 2:19:33Speaker 03

  And they're flying too close to all of these planets.

• 2:19:35Griffin Newman?

  They are. But he lands at the Axiom, which is a luxury starliner where babies just do baby shit.

• 2:19:44Speaker 03

  And he meets the main character of the film.

• 2:19:45Griffin Newman?

  Mo.

• 2:19:46Speaker 03

  Mo.

• 2:19:46Griffin Newman?

  Mo is incredible. And I feel like Mo had largely kind of been hidden from the marketing. I think they hid a lot of the Axiom stuff. They really front loaded.

• 2:19:54David Sims?

  Yeah, they did, because I remember everyone being so focused on this movie and being like, and if you watch the trailer, it does look like it's not all on the planet.

• 2:20:02Griffin Newman?

  There's one shot of the captain in the trailer.

• 2:20:04David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:20:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:05David Sims?

  But no one was really prepared for any of that, which I think might have been also part of why it did bounce off some people, like some people did bounce off it a little bit.

• 2:20:13Griffin Newman?

  I also think, I mean, I compare it to like shit like Full Metal Jacket, right? Where it's like.

• 2:20:19Speaker 03

  Often Wally is compared to Full Metal Jacket, yeah.

• 2:20:22Griffin Newman?

  It doesn't feel like you had a lot of people being like, Wally sucks after the first act. But you had a lot of people who were like, the first act is so transcendent.

• 2:20:29David Sims?

  Normie take amongst my friends. Right. First act, incredible. Second act is fine.

• 2:20:33Griffin Newman?

  It goes from being like, right, perfect.

• 2:20:36David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:20:36Griffin Newman?

  To being really good. I have always liked all of it. But the purity of it is, it's just astonishing where you're like, I can't believe they're getting away with this and it's working.

• 2:20:45David Sims?

  Agree. And I think it's all good. I love the first act and I think it's so special.

• 2:20:49Griffin Newman?

  But I think the movie needs everything that happens.

• 2:20:52David Sims?

  I, the sci fi kind of dork that I am, just love the Axiom. And I love all of the kind of like kids' version of rebelling against, you know, the ship computer and all. Like, it's just like, it's, it's classic sci fi storytelling that I respond to. I think it's so well done.

• 2:21:08Griffin Newman?

  I also.

• 2:21:08David Sims?

  And I like that it's goofy farce, like.

• 2:21:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:21:11David Sims?

  Like that it is like a mad cap chase.

• 2:21:12Griffin Newman?

  That's where you feel the reared in too, of like him bringing in a Simpsons guy.

• 2:21:16David Sims?

  And obviously, the, just the Pixar, you know, like Monsters Inc. has a bit of that, and of course.

• 2:21:21Griffin Newman?

  I also, I, I really like the captain. There are so many bad versions of this where you're like, this is the cop out that we finally introduce a character who can speak all the subtext and explain everything directly to camera. But I think the arc of the captain is really well rendered.

• 2:21:37David Sims?

  And I completely agree.

• 2:21:39Speaker 03

  The captain could have used a wife who kept telling Wally to get the fuck out of her house. That really would have added.

• 2:21:44Griffin Newman?

  Bossy face. Well, Otto's kind of his work life. Yeah. Otto, the true villain of the film.

• 2:21:48David Sims?

  Right. There's Captain McCray, Jeff Garland's character, who does not, he's only called the captain, really, but who is not a villain, right? And then Otto voiced by.

• 2:21:59Griffin Newman?

  Mackens.

• 2:21:59David Sims?

  Back in smack talk.

• 2:22:00Griffin Newman?

  It is voiced by, and credited in the accredited.

• 2:22:04David Sims?

  Mack and talk.

• 2:22:05Griffin Newman?

  Mack and talk.

• 2:22:05David Sims?

  It's called Mack and Talk, right?

• 2:22:06Griffin Newman?

  Right. Which was that, that era's talk to.

• 2:22:09Speaker 03

  Feel deliberate that the antagonist of the film was the only one not to have any sort of trace of human.

• 2:22:14Griffin Newman?

  Right. Like Ben Burt didn't do that. They just typed words into a computer and that's the Mac voice.

• 2:22:18David Sims?

  Portal is the year before.

• 2:22:20Speaker 03

  Right. The portal connection is strong.

• 2:22:22David Sims?

  But I think it's.

• 2:22:23Griffin Newman?

  Parallel thinking.

• 2:22:24David Sims?

  It's parallel, right? Like, cause it's not, like, but I remember at the time Portal, obviously the greatest video game ever made, equaled only by Portal 2, like not, not being able to shake that, that comparison. Yeah.

• 2:22:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, obviously, Glados, obviously Otto is a lot more howl visually coded. I mean, with the, the red eye at the center is, is kind of dominant. But yeah, I mean, I think it was like the Mac aesthetic combined with evil superintelligence gives you Glados slash Otto. But I just want to talk about Mo. I, I married Mo, as I alluded to earlier in this episode. And.

• 2:23:04Griffin Newman?

  Well, can you speak on that?

• 2:23:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to, I was trying to in that, that sort of pause, figure out how best to do that.

• 2:23:10Griffin Newman?

  Your, your wife, a lovely human being, one of my favorite people.

• 2:23:13David Sims?

  Greatest person.

• 2:23:14Griffin Newman?

  I, I don't project what you're saying.

• 2:23:15David Sims?

  You're like.

• 2:23:16Griffin Newman?

  As derogatory, but I need you to unpack it so the audience understands.

• 2:23:21David Sims?

  Anytime your wife texts me like, you know, are you going to this screening tonight? Like, you know, David's out. And I'm like, no, divorce him. I'm just, I mean, I'm just like divorce. Anytime you like go to can, I'm like divorce.

• 2:23:34Speaker 03

  If she could carry our children up to our fourth floor locker.

• 2:23:37Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then you'd be done. You're one task.

• 2:23:41Speaker 03

  But I am definitely the, every relationship needs a Wally and a Mo. And Eve is sort of off in her own lane. She's the other woman, as far as I'm concerned. But yeah, my, I, on one of our first dates, I. Drew, similar to how Griffin drew a sad version of himself at a bar. Uh, I drew a crude, maybe the best thing I've ever drawn as someone to know artistic talent whatsoever. Um, a, a little caricature of Mo on her legs.

• 2:24:05Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:24:06Speaker 03

  And on both, across both legs somehow.

• 2:24:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's bold.

• 2:24:10Speaker 03

  And, um, the ballpoint pen, it turned out pretty well. A lot of just boxes. Um.

• 2:24:18Griffin Newman?

  You identified this movie as a shared point?

• 2:24:21Speaker 03

  Yes. Uh, we've been, fuck, we've been dating, started dating 16 years ago.

• 2:24:26Griffin Newman?

  So a year or two after Wally.

• 2:24:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, we, we knew each other since college, but we didn't start dating until I got drunk one night, as happens. Um, but the, um, yeah, she is very compulsive towards cleaning. And I am more of a Wally type in that I like arranging and collecting things that, uh, other people might think of as trash.

• 2:24:47Griffin Newman?

  I, I did appreciate, there's a thing on the criterion desk where Stanton calls out that he is an obsessive physical media collector. And it's like the balance between being like, I buy these things that give me comfort. They make me happy. I want to be in a room surrounded by all the things I care about. It doesn't actually solve anything. I'm not critical of Wally's compulsion.

• 2:25:07Speaker 03

  Right, of course. And I, but I wonder about Mo, you know, it's sort of the classic one must imagine Sisyphus happy sort of thing. Like, is he delighted or she delighted, they? I mean, the robots are aggressively coded in this movie. Mo, not so much. But aggressively gendered, I would say. Um, but, uh, is Mo happy to have the excuse to pop out of bed and clean something? Or is Mo more irritated? This is a question I am often asking in couples therapy with my beautiful partner. But, uh, but, you know, Mo is, when Mo sees the dirt trail goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 2:25:37Griffin Newman?

  That moment. I mean, he like shakes his arms out like I got my work cut out.

• 2:25:43David Sims?

  He, he lives on a line.

• 2:25:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:25:44David Sims?

  Again, from Portal 2, I think.

• 2:25:46Griffin Newman?

  Everyone on the axiom, basically. The axiom all runs on lines.

• 2:25:49David Sims?

  Right. His big moment obviously is, is daring to jump the line and one assumes. Tempt death. Like I feel like he's thinking like, if I jump the line, will I just explode or shut down or something?

• 2:26:00Griffin Newman?

  But like, his job is to obsessively clean everything in what is a very sterile environment. And Wally enters the ecosystem covered in dirt and creates a new.

• 2:26:10Speaker 03

  But does this give Mo a purpose that Mo has never had before, justifying most life? And therefore should Mo not be pleased to have the opportunity to clean up after?

• 2:26:20Griffin Newman?

  I think that's a great question.

• 2:26:22Speaker 03

  Who would argue?

• 2:26:22Griffin Newman?

  I think similar, when I was saying like, what defines Mo and makes him similar to Wally and Eva is that he takes pleasure in what he does. And you said, is it pleasure or is it like obsessive compulsive? There is an argument that Mo is like mentally ill rather than like driven by joy, but it still is an aberration that gives him a personality.

• 2:26:41Speaker 03

  I feel like we're broaching territory that is no longer fair to discuss without my wife's presence.

• 2:26:46Griffin Newman?

  Sure. Well, I'm speaking solely of Mo. I speak not of your lovely.

• 2:26:50Speaker 03

  Yes. Anyway, I will say that the dynamic between Wally and Mo is, I think, a very complicated and familiar one to me.

• 2:26:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:26:58Speaker 03

  And I love Mo very much.

• 2:27:01Griffin Newman?

  Mo is so funny. Everything about him, his like, his intensity.

• 2:27:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:27:07David Sims?

  Very intense. Single mindedness. I mean, he's earlier on a journey that Wally is far along on, and even Eva is a little further along on, right? Like, we're watching just the beginning spark of rebellion or consciousness or whatever.

• 2:27:22Griffin Newman?

  Maybe that's the question is like, Wally and Eva, when they start sort of deviating, is it at first out of an obsession that then they let turn into a joy? You know?

• 2:27:35Speaker 03

  Very Marie Kondo.

• 2:27:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:27:37David Sims?

  But Wally has, for hundreds of years, we assume, been iterating and thus getting weirder and weirder.

• 2:27:43Griffin Newman?

  This is most first moment of activation. And then the other droids, we end up seeing the kind of like, I forget what they call them.

• 2:27:49David Sims?

  Barring contaminant?

• 2:27:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but the sort of like reject bots.

• 2:27:52David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:27:53Griffin Newman?

  Are all like, they've had their first kind of.

• 2:27:56Speaker 03

  In the diagnostic bay.

• 2:27:57Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. Aberrant behavior. That is maybe the activation of something else.

• 2:28:02David Sims?

  I'm just watching a Mo video now. It's just so funny. He's so disgusted by Wally. Wally's so filthy.

• 2:28:07Griffin Newman?

  I think Mo's a little forgotten. Like even just within the Pixar canon and the characters that are like often invoked.

• 2:28:15David Sims?

  Mo was in line to replace Tim Cook at Apple.

• 2:28:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:28:18David Sims?

  I think he was one of the three.

• 2:28:20Griffin Newman?

  I think he should have.

• 2:28:21David Sims?

  There's a lot of politics.

• 2:28:25David Sims?

  You know, Mo doesn't always, you know, he's tough to the big personality.

• 2:28:28Griffin Newman?

  No. I like that the way he says his name has all this wind up to it, like Wally, it's effort of like, and like Eve can get out quickly and Mo, it's.

• 2:28:39Speaker 03

  He's efficient.

• 2:28:41David Sims?

  Just want to clean so bad.

• 2:28:43Griffin Newman?

  That's all he want to do.

• 2:28:44David Sims?

  He just want to clean.

• 2:28:45Speaker 04

  Okay, so Wally is chasing after Eve. We get to the roadway.

• 2:28:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:28:50Speaker 04

  And we see another aberration, which is that we're seeing the humans, they're, you know, laying on these little beds.

• 2:28:57Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:28:58Speaker 04

  And.

• 2:28:58David Sims?

  Yeah, they're in these like chairs.

• 2:29:00Speaker 04

  Chair bed.

• 2:29:00David Sims?

  Chair bed.

• 2:29:01Speaker 04

  Which I'm assuming there's a toilet built into it.

• 2:29:03David Sims?

  I think.

• 2:29:04Griffin Newman?

  I think we'd have.

• 2:29:05David Sims?

  No assumption necessary, that's going on.

• 2:29:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:08Speaker 04

  Wally runs into the first human.

• 2:29:11Griffin Newman?

  This is where we start to get, right, the key knee thing of can Wally just start to throw things a little bit off, out of whack, right? He, the amount of dirt he introduces in the ecosystem makes Mo jump the line. Him chasing after Eve knocks John off of his axis. He's looking away from the screen for a second. He makes the introduction and I think it's a beautiful moment of Wally introducing himself and John being like, John, like he's out of habit of needing to.

• 2:29:43Speaker 04

  But he probably hasn't done it.

• 2:29:45Griffin Newman?

  He knows what his name is, but he's sort of like, what am I, what do I do here?

• 2:29:48Speaker 03

  When was the last time he met a new person or knew anything?

• 2:29:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:51Speaker 03

  But I do need to give a shout out to the brain bug computer that I will never be able to look at without thinking of the brain bug from Starship Troopers. The secretary.

• 2:30:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes, with the little.

• 2:30:01Speaker 04

  It's afraid.

• 2:30:03Griffin Newman?

  And, and I love that we don't really go back to that guy, but it's, I say guy. But the same thing of like Wally waving makes them sort of look at their own articulation point and be like, can I express an emotion?

• 2:30:16David Sims?

  There's Gopher, the Gopher.

• 2:30:19Griffin Newman?

  Well, those, that's, they're like, they are Legion.

• 2:30:22David Sims?

  But, but there's the first mate one that's the one that like tries to bin the plant.

• 2:30:26Griffin Newman?

  I mean, they suck, they're cops.

• 2:30:28David Sims?

  They're, fuck them.

• 2:30:29Griffin Newman?

  They're, they're little fucking weeds.

• 2:30:31David Sims?

  Trying to think of other Wally robots.

• 2:30:34Griffin Newman?

  The, the painting one is named Van Gogh.

• 2:30:36David Sims?

  All right, that's a little too cute.

• 2:30:38Griffin Newman?

  It's really good. But then you have the beautician bots, you have the boxing robot that's supposed to be the workout.

• 2:30:44David Sims?

  Smashbot, rules. I don't know what his job would be.

• 2:30:47Griffin Newman?

  No, the idea is that he's for like, physical training. He probably has not been used in a while.

• 2:30:51David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:52Griffin Newman?

  He's supposed to be the exercise bot that like.

• 2:30:54Speaker 03

  He's like the Vision Pro of the ship in that sense.

• 2:30:57Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. He's your coach. And then you have the defibrillator bots. You have the vacuum cleaner bot.

• 2:31:02Speaker 03

  I saw one this year.

• 2:31:03Griffin Newman?

  That also has allergies. Yeah.

• 2:31:06David Sims?

  I'm just like, there is an incredible amount of entries on the Pixar Wiki. There's a golf bot called Birdy.

• 2:31:13Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure. You see, yes. You see the guys on the screen.

• 2:31:16Speaker 03

  Got his own short film.

• 2:31:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:31:19David Sims?

  There's also Bird, comma, Brad, who made a lot of movies at Pixar.

• 2:31:22Griffin Newman?

  He did. It's, yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:24David Sims?

  Thank you for acknowledging that.

• 2:31:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:31:27David Sims?

  Uh, yeah. What is Bernie? Bernie's like a welder, right?

• 2:31:29Griffin Newman?

  Bernie's a welder on the outside of the ship who gets locked outside. And it's sort of a blackout gag of like, what's this guy gonna do? And Angus McLean pitched like, what if there was a subplot of him trying to get back into the building? And Stan was like, we don't have room for this in the movie, but like, I think that's a good short idea. And this was the era where there were enough shorts being commissioned as developmental to play in front of movies, but they also always wanted a short on the home video release.

• 2:31:54David Sims?

  You had your Jack Jack Attack. You had your Bernie. You had your Mike's New Car.

• 2:31:58Griffin Newman?

  But Bernie is really fucking good.

• 2:31:59David Sims?

  They're often good. I always worried, I always thought with those, like, wondered with those, like,

• 2:32:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:03David Sims?

  Is it annoying at Pixar where it's like, hey, you got this sort of cute spinoff versus the original short, like?

• 2:32:09Griffin Newman?

  I feel like.

• 2:32:10David Sims?

  More people might watch it, but it's, you know, in the shadow.

• 2:32:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it's a little bit of a double edged sword. They basically.

• 2:32:16David Sims?

  My obsession with Jack Jack Attack was very intense.

• 2:32:18Griffin Newman?

  They basically fall off a cliff right after this.

• 2:32:21David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:21Griffin Newman?

  Cause Jack Jack Attack was directed by Bird.

• 2:32:24David Sims?

  Yeah, Bird's involved with that.

• 2:32:25Speaker 03

  But a lot of these things are gifts to parents, especially in the streaming era, whose kids are obsessed with these movies. And instead of watching Frozen 2 for the 97th time, you can watch Frozen Fever, uh, or Olaf's. Snow would vent whatever the fuck it's called.

• 2:32:37Griffin Newman?

  Well, that one that they played before Coco that started a mutiny.

• 2:32:41David Sims?

  It's like 40 minutes long.

• 2:32:42Griffin Newman?

  It was insane. But the one on.

• 2:32:44David Sims?

  It starts Olaf.

• 2:32:45Griffin Newman?

  The one on Up, they don't even fully animate.

• 2:32:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:49Griffin Newman?

  It's like on the disc as like story reels where they were like, ah, we ran out of time, money on this one.

• 2:32:53Speaker 03

  But I find shorts before now, like bringing kids to a movie, a short before a movie is very, very anxiety inducing for me. Because there is a narrow window where the kid's attention will be locked in enough to the movie and the candy won't fry their brain.

• 2:33:06Griffin Newman?

  I mean, Pixar dropped it.

• 2:33:08David Sims?

  Kids are very different.

• 2:33:10Griffin Newman?

  I think Elemental was the last one.

• 2:33:12David Sims?

  Or your anxiety is too high, I would say.

• 2:33:14Speaker 03

  Wait until Bebop and Rocksteady are a little bit older and exerting that boisterous jail.

• 2:33:18David Sims?

  It is, it is very possible.

• 2:33:20Griffin Newman?

  Did you see what I placed on your desk, David, in the little tray? You know how you always struggle to remember which one's Bebop and which one's Rocksteady? I gave you a little study guide that has a photo on one side and the name on the back.

• 2:33:32David Sims?

  Bebop, as I think I've told you, the toys are still in separate crips. Bebop has Bebop, Rocksteady has Rocksteady, but at the start of every morning, Bebop demands both.

• 2:33:44Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:33:45David Sims?

  Like he points, he's like, you know, and like I give him both. And then he plops in my lap and holds them.

• 2:33:50Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:33:51David Sims?

  It feels great.

• 2:33:51Griffin Newman?

  And what does Rocksteady do during that?

• 2:33:52David Sims?

  He's still drinking his bottle. My Bebop drinks his bottle like, done, you know, which is his energy generally. Whereas Rocksteady is a little bit more like, I shall pause, you know? I don't want to drink six ounces of milk.

• 2:34:06Speaker 03

  Bebop is not going to be a big fan of short films before film.

• 2:34:07David Sims?

  I'm, Bebop is the one I have my eye on re-attention.

• 2:34:12Griffin Newman?

  He's got some bruiser energy too. Yeah.

• 2:34:15David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:16Griffin Newman?

  Rock.

• 2:34:17David Sims?

  He throws everything.

• 2:34:18Griffin Newman?

  A very funny picture of Rocksteady reading a book the other day.

• 2:34:21David Sims?

  He's so fucked up.

• 2:34:22Griffin Newman?

  He looks like a little intellectual.

• 2:34:23David Sims?

  I mean, that's just what is why. Rocksteady likes to find a corner. He likes to find like an egress, you know what I mean? Like if there's a part of the room that he can kind of wedge himself into, that's where he wants to be.

• 2:34:35Griffin Newman?

  And then he had him drivers the wall.

• 2:34:36David Sims?

  No, no, no, no. I'm saying like he, then he picks up his book or plays with him.

• 2:34:41Griffin Newman?

  That's a Rocksteady.

• 2:34:42David Sims?

  Whereas Bebop likes to just like walk around and throw shit and.

• 2:34:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:45David Sims?

  Stack things and, you know, put things in other thing, you know, classic baby stuff.

• 2:34:50Speaker 03

  My crazy children.

• 2:34:51Griffin Newman?

  Other robots is the flashlight, there's the umbrella. I mean, there, there's so many of them.

• 2:34:56David Sims?

  There's the makeup robot.

• 2:34:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but what I like is that I, it feels like one of the things that's activating all these robots is that they're barely kind of engaged with anymore. There's something about much like Wally, they're forced to do a routine behavior over and over again without even engagement. Like when you see the golfing robot and it's, they're watching the screen rather than watching the bot itself.

• 2:35:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:35:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:24David Sims?

  Um, yeah, everyone's, it's not like they're depressed, they're just in a daze.

• 2:35:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And Captain McCray is the one who's sort of like half in.

• 2:35:34David Sims?

  Yes, he is the one whose brain has to be the most awake, even though it's only a little awake.

• 2:35:38Griffin Newman?

  He doesn't.

• 2:35:38David Sims?

  He does have to do like daily activities.

• 2:35:40Griffin Newman?

  To other people, but he needs to perform. He needs to get on a fucking zoom and do the announcements.

• 2:35:45David Sims?

  Be like, you're getting a new cup this week or whatever, you know, whatever your new merch is. Yeah.

• 2:35:49Griffin Newman?

  Right. His brain's still a little bit active and he thinks of himself as more engaged than the rest.

• 2:35:55Speaker 03

  He's the only thing, only person who has even an illusion of responsibility.

• 2:35:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Even though at this point, it's like, to what end? Otto doesn't even wake him up.

• 2:36:03Speaker 03

  No, no, I mean, he does the morning announcements. It's his only joy.

• 2:36:06Griffin Newman?

  Right. And the idea of switching from day to night, which no one even notices.

• 2:36:10Speaker 04

  Like he oversleeps and then sets the time back to morning so that he can do the morning announcements.

• 2:36:16David Sims?

  It's his only thing he gets to do. He loves to do it. He, he is sleepy king. He's a good boy. Um, obviously his big triumph is walking. And it, to me, it's another just triumph of physical animation as good as the robot stuff.

• 2:36:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:34David Sims?

  He's like making his walking like compelling. You know, he's like, okay, I gotta actually get on my feet and walk.

• 2:36:40Speaker 04

  It's so funny that the uniform they made.

• 2:36:43David Sims?

  It's just like a.

• 2:36:44Speaker 04

  One size.

• 2:36:45David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:36:46Speaker 04

  And so it's just become, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 2:36:49Speaker 03

  Do you think like children immediately understand the spoke Zarathustra as like, yes, this is of course the music you play when someone is evolving, that it's like so hardwired into our DNA at this point?

• 2:37:00Griffin Newman?

  So it's like, you know, it's like the fucking, oh, this is what you play when someone's graduating. This is what you play when someone's getting married.

• 2:37:07David Sims?

  Dramatic music.

• 2:37:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:37:09David Sims?

  They should play to graduation.

• 2:37:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:14Griffin Newman?

  But I like that it is this sort of reactivation of curiosity that that drives him.

• 2:37:20Speaker 03

  Well, it's the, yeah, the machines becoming more like humans, the humans have already become machines, but then the humans then have to, they're reactivated into their humanity by their machines.

• 2:37:28Griffin Newman?

  Right. The two-pronged thing of Eva showing up with a specimen and he's like, wait, specimen, right. That's what I'm supposed to be waiting for. But it's been so long that it's felt like it could even happen. I don't even know how to react to this. His moment when Otto hands him the like guidebook and he lifts up the one page and it's like, wow, what do you look at there?

• 2:37:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:37:49Speaker 04

  I think he speaks to it at first.

• 2:37:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:51David Sims?

  Yeah, that's pretty.

• 2:37:52Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. He talks into it like a tablet.

• 2:37:54Speaker 03

  But I do think it's always a morbid line for me when Fred Willard says that like, oh, just a few laps around the jogging track and your bodies will be right as rain again. It's like, I think in reality, when they go back down to Earth's gravity, they are gonna be blobs. They're not gonna be able to function.

• 2:38:12David Sims?

  It is hard.

• 2:38:13Speaker 03

  Society.

• 2:38:13David Sims?

  It's hard to imagine quite what their life will be.

• 2:38:16Griffin Newman?

  You know, this is why they put in the end credits sequence because when they did the test screening of the Almost Finished movie, the first note everyone got back is like, well, I don't think they survive.

• 2:38:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:38:25Griffin Newman?

  Don't they just die?

• 2:38:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:38:27Griffin Newman?

  And they were like, we have to like put something on that tells them like, they're gonna do the work.

• 2:38:32David Sims?

  They'll figure it out.

• 2:38:33Speaker 03

  We'll see how far it goes.

• 2:38:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:34Speaker 04

  And that's basically the credit stuff.

• 2:38:37David Sims?

  Yeah, the cute like over the, is it Peter Gabriel?

• 2:38:39Griffin Newman?

  It's Peter Gabriel.

• 2:38:40Speaker 04

  I'm going, no, no.

• 2:38:42Griffin Newman?

  Cause this is the year, this is, this is Slumdog.

• 2:38:46Speaker 04

  I'm going Slumdog.

• 2:38:47Griffin Newman?

  Jai Ho beats this for best original song.

• 2:38:50Speaker 04

  I have a, I have a logic question. We see babies. Now, this is a crass question.

• 2:38:56David Sims?

  There's some harvesting going on. I think this is an artificial situation.

• 2:39:00Speaker 04

  Okay. Cause I was gonna say, how do they fuck?

• 2:39:02David Sims?

  Now, how are they extracting these things? I don't know.

• 2:39:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Are they pumping or are they just test tubing? Who knows?

• 2:39:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:39:08Griffin Newman?

  Are they Jeffrey tubing?

• 2:39:11Speaker 04

  Because we see the relationship.

• 2:39:12David Sims?

  They are on Zoom once in a while.

• 2:39:14Griffin Newman?

  They're on Zoom all the time. They might actually.

• 2:39:18David Sims?

  Have to tube.

• 2:39:19Griffin Newman?

  What's the last time someone didn't tube in?

• 2:39:22Speaker 04

  Cause we see the relationship with the two humans.

• 2:39:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:24Speaker 04

  I don't remember the characters' names.

• 2:39:26Griffin Newman?

  It's John and Mary, I think.

• 2:39:29Speaker 04

  But it's clearly like voiced by Kathy and Imi.

• 2:39:32David Sims?

  People haven't touched one another.

• 2:39:35Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:39:35David Sims?

  The act of them just making skin contacts.

• 2:39:39Speaker 03

  It would be like the elevator and old boy. They're just like instantly ejected.

• 2:39:42David Sims?

  It is funny. They're like, okay, let's not make two songs from Slung Dog, one song from Wally. I think we're done.

• 2:39:50Griffin Newman?

  That's the era where they couldn't even care to nominate five.

• 2:39:53David Sims?

  Right. They're like, yeah, you know what? I think that covers the songs of 28.

• 2:39:58Speaker 03

  Diane Warren didn't have something.

• 2:40:00David Sims?

  Diane Warren should have like written a Frost Nixon song.

• 2:40:02Griffin Newman?

  Was 06 the year where Dreamgirls has three out of the five song nominations? And then they're like, what are we doing here? And then I think they sort of went.

• 2:40:11David Sims?

  I think they went to a sort of like, it can be up to five, but it can be smaller.

• 2:40:15Griffin Newman?

  It can be lower and no movie can get more than two.

• 2:40:17David Sims?

  Dreamgirls did get three.

• 2:40:19Speaker 03

  I read an article at some point about Diane Warren, the score, the screw, the scourge, scourge of, of Oscar season. And I saw, I don't use Facebook anymore, but I got an email that said Diane Warren has sent you a message. And I was too afraid to look at it for an entire calendar year. And then finally, after she lost another Oscar, I was like, oh, I'll just check what it was. And it was just a smiley face.

• 2:40:43David Sims?

  It just is so funny.

• 2:40:44Griffin Newman?

  We need to rip off that fucking band.

• 2:40:47David Sims?

  And give her an award, but she has to stop writing songs for movies that are like Diane Warren, the Diane Warren story.

• 2:40:53Speaker 03

  We reached a new low last year where she wrote a song for a documentary about how she always loses the fucking Oscar in this category.

• 2:40:59David Sims?

  Sometimes you lose and people are just like, we're not giving this to you. I'm sorry. Like fucking famous people write songs.

• 2:41:10Griffin Newman?

  David mime holding a microphone while he was singing that even though he is sitting in front of a microphone.

• 2:41:16Speaker 03

  Documentary, the documentary about her, I mean, she does, she, she does.

• 2:41:19David Sims?

  She has written a lot of great songs.

• 2:41:21Speaker 03

  Identifies having Asperger's, she is on the spectrum. I don't want to be overly harsh, but like, she is so embittered, even when she lost to like, fucking like Billie Eilish, like Lady Gaga for Stars Born, which was like, she was never gonna lose harder than that.

• 2:41:34David Sims?

  You're not winning this year.

• 2:41:35Speaker 03

  She still immediately picks up her shit and walks home.

• 2:41:37David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:41:38Griffin Newman?

  The problem is that there were so many years where it felt like this category was so irrelevant, where people were like, do you just fucking eliminate it from the telecast entirely? And we should have given it to her one of those years.

• 2:41:49David Sims?

  Now, now I want to find it. I want to find, when did we give it to her?

• 2:41:52Griffin Newman?

  The last 10 years has been like, songs that people actually know written by giant pop stars. She's not gonna beat that.

• 2:41:58David Sims?

  I'm just gonna give you some of her losses. Her first nomination was for Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now from Mannequin, an incredible song.

• 2:42:04Griffin Newman?

  What beats her?

• 2:42:05David Sims?

  Time of My Life from Dirty Dancing. You're not beating that!

• 2:42:08Griffin Newman?

  No, but you're like, in any other year.

• 2:42:10David Sims?

  Maybe, but I think that's, like, okay, here's when she should have won. It's her second, although I wouldn't give it to her. But her second nomination is for Because You Loved Me, oh, beautifully sung by Celine Dion, from the forgotten film Out Close and Personal. It loses to You Must Love Me from Evita, which is ass.

• 2:42:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:29David Sims?

  Might as well be called ass song.

• 2:42:30Griffin Newman?

  That should have been her win and we could have avoided a lot of pain.

• 2:42:32David Sims?

  The correct winner there is That Thing You Do.

• 2:42:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:36David Sims?

  Which is better.

• 2:42:36Griffin Newman?

  And was nominated.

• 2:42:37David Sims?

  And was nominated.

• 2:42:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:39David Sims?

  But if they'd given it to Warren, that's still better than the stupid Evita song.

• 2:42:42Griffin Newman?

  That's nomination two.

• 2:42:43David Sims?

  Nomination three is How Do I Live from Con Air. A banger.

• 2:42:47Griffin Newman?

  A great song.

• 2:42:47David Sims?

  Hilarious that it's from Con Air, but a banger.

• 2:42:50Griffin Newman?

  What beats it?

• 2:42:50David Sims?

  My heart will go off.

• 2:42:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:52David Sims?

  You're not winning.

• 2:42:54Griffin Newman?

  Break.

• 2:42:54David Sims?

  You're not gonna win.

• 2:42:55Griffin Newman?

  So then the year after that is Don't Want To Miss A Thing?

• 2:42:58David Sims?

  So the next year, she has, I Don't Want To Miss A Thing from Armageddon, beautifully sung by Aerosmith. There she loses to When You Believe by the Prince of Egypt. I think we could have given it to her there.

• 2:43:09Griffin Newman?

  I think that's also her best.

• 2:43:10David Sims?

  I don't really like, right. I got pretty sick of it, but like, I don't think there's a huge problem skipping fucking When You Believe.

• 2:43:16Speaker 03

  There is definitely an element of continued injustice that has fueled her.

• 2:43:21David Sims?

  The next year, she has, what's it called? Music of My Heart from Music of the Heart. Well, that's.

• 2:43:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's starting to get that.

• 2:43:27David Sims?

  That loses to You'll Be In My Heart from Tarzan.

• 2:43:30Griffin Newman?

  And that's.

• 2:43:30David Sims?

  Which obviously Blame Canada should bring that here.

• 2:43:31Griffin Newman?

  Right, but that's an NSYNC, Gloria Estefan song. I remember NSYNC performing at the Oscars.

• 2:43:36David Sims?

  I definitely remember Gloria Estefan.

• 2:43:37Speaker 03

  Blame Canada is my winner, but you'll be in my heart.

• 2:43:41David Sims?

  Then, okay.

• 2:43:41Griffin Newman?

  What are you guys talking about? That's the When She Loved Me from Toy Story 2 year. That's what should have won. McLaughlin and Newman.

• 2:43:49David Sims?

  Now.

• 2:43:49Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna shoot you in the head.

• 2:43:51David Sims?

  Don't do that. Now, the next, then her next nom is for There You'll Be from Pearl Harbor. A terrible movie with, it's a, it's regular Diane Warren.

• 2:44:01Griffin Newman?

  It's Diet, uh, uh, what's the fucking Kanye song? I'm already forgetting.

• 2:44:06David Sims?

  Fucking How Do I Live?

• 2:44:07Griffin Newman?

  It's very similar.

• 2:44:08David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, it is. It loses to another situation of the Oscars giving someone their, their much delayed award. Randy Newman for If I Never Have You, right? So, so they had to give it to Newman. Then 13 year drought.

• 2:44:23Griffin Newman?

  That's Warren.

• 2:44:24David Sims?

  Warren vanishes because I feel like the kind of work she did was no longer needed, right?

• 2:44:29Griffin Newman?

  But those are the years where she could have eked out a win if she had gotten one.

• 2:44:33Speaker 03

  She was the hero we wanted, but not the one we needed or deserved, but not the one we.

• 2:44:37Griffin Newman?

  And is it, is it the, um, the, the sexual assault on campus movie? Is that her return?

• 2:44:43David Sims?

  In between that, The Hunting Ground and Pearl Harbor is the, her song from beyond the lights, Grateful.

• 2:44:50Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:44:50David Sims?

  Which is pretty good.

• 2:44:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:52David Sims?

  And that loses to Glory from Selma. So she could have won there too.

• 2:44:55Speaker 03

  No, Glory, Glory is strong.

• 2:44:57David Sims?

  It's fine.

• 2:44:57Griffin Newman?

  Glory's strong.

• 2:44:58David Sims?

  It did make Chris Pine cry.

• 2:44:59Griffin Newman?

  Let's also remember that year was the whole thing where Selma only got two Oscar nominations.

• 2:45:05David Sims?

  And it suddenly was the only Selma.

• 2:45:08Griffin Newman?

  And it was like, if we don't give Selma the Oscar win, we look like assholes.

• 2:45:11David Sims?

  She definitely could have won for the, the documentary about sexual assault with Lady Gaga's song, It Happens To You.

• 2:45:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:18David Sims?

  Because writing on the wall from Spectre won.

• 2:45:21Griffin Newman?

  A song that sucks.

• 2:45:22David Sims?

  Another.

• 2:45:23Griffin Newman?

  Loser.

• 2:45:23David Sims?

  Yeah, terrible.

• 2:45:25Griffin Newman?

  That's the Sam Smith one.

• 2:45:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:27Speaker 03

  Especially given the one that we eventually heard, the song that Radiohead wrote.

• 2:45:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:31David Sims?

  I know, that's.

• 2:45:32Speaker 03

  It's incredible.

• 2:45:33Griffin Newman?

  So like, I do feel like. Going into that night, everyone thought she was finally gonna win. And the fact that Joe Biden was onstage presenting the song with Lady Gaga, it was like, this feels like a moment.

• 2:45:43David Sims?

  And then they were like, you know, whatever. Since then, it's been like, stop it. Because like, the nomination's been for Marshall, RBG, Breakthrough, The Life Ahead, which was like, an Italian movie.

• 2:45:57Speaker 03

  What is Breakthrough?

• 2:45:57Griffin Newman?

  Breakthrough was a Chrissy Metz.

• 2:46:00David Sims?

  Yes, she's like, stuck under the ice.

• 2:46:01Griffin Newman?

  Josh Lucas, a kid.

• 2:46:03David Sims?

  Sometimes you're under the ice. Like, I don't know.

• 2:46:06Griffin Newman?

  They pray a kid back to warmth. That's truly what that movie, like, based on her story.

• 2:46:11David Sims?

  These movies you've never heard of. The Life Ahead, Four Good Days, which is the, like, Mila Kunis heroin addict movie.

• 2:46:18Griffin Newman?

  David, why are you reading off my Spotify rap?

• 2:46:20David Sims?

  Then in 2022, the Oscars are like, here's an honorary award. Stop it. She gets four more nominations after that.

• 2:46:29Speaker 03

  They're enabling her, though.

• 2:46:30David Sims?

  Flamin' hot.

• 2:46:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:32David Sims?

  She got nominated for the Cheeto movie.

• 2:46:34Griffin Newman?

  What's the song?

• 2:46:35David Sims?

  It's called The Fire Inside.

• 2:46:36Speaker 03

  Jesus.

• 2:46:37Griffin Newman?

  Is that, is that the year that Billie Eilish beats her for the second time?

• 2:46:41David Sims?

  I mean, I don't think she was ever going to win, but it does, yes, Eilish wins for Barbie. That's the year that I'm Just Ken should win.

• 2:46:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:48David Sims?

  And instead, they give it to the Eilish song.

• 2:46:50Griffin Newman?

  But the Dua Lipa song wasn't even nominated.

• 2:46:52David Sims?

  She's too hot for the Oscars.

• 2:46:53Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:46:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, they famously never give Oscars to hot people.

• 2:46:57David Sims?

  The six triple eight, and then, yes, last year, she was nominated for the movie Diane Warren: Relentless. And relentless she is.

• 2:47:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:04David Sims?

  We cannot deny that.

• 2:47:05Griffin Newman?

  And I just like that it wasn't even considered to give it to her. You felt like everyone who wrote her in on the nomination ballot would put parthenical, but I'm not giving her the win.

• 2:47:15Speaker 03

  That's a joke.

• 2:47:16David Sims?

  In the fucking golden year.

• 2:47:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes. All right, Wally.

• 2:47:20Speaker 03

  Wally.

• 2:47:21Griffin Newman?

  I would, just to end this tangent, to close this loop. What do you think she would need to do to win? Like if she, if we were like-

• 2:47:27Speaker 03

  Write a listenable song?

• 2:47:28David Sims?

  I think write a well, like regarded song from a movie that is in theaters.

• 2:47:32Griffin Newman?

  Like Diane, you're not gonna rope a dope us into giving you a competitive win.

• 2:47:35David Sims?

  We're not going to be shamed by you. Like, we stopped being embarrassed at NOM 10 and you're at like NOM 24.

• 2:47:41Griffin Newman?

  You're embarrassed now.

• 2:47:42David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 2:47:43Speaker 03

  But the problem, as you were alluding to earlier, now it is also not just for the end credits, but baked into the meat of movies nowadays, like very strong original songs by major artists. And I think that has never been so difficult for-

• 2:47:56Griffin Newman?

  It's come back around.

• 2:47:57David Sims?

  Stuff like Golden, you're like, right, like you're not, this is not a kiddie category. I mean, like, these are, right, big pop songs make it, nah.

• 2:48:03Speaker 03

  And the days when she was writing songs to compete with Golden, they existed, but they are a long time ago.

• 2:48:08David Sims?

  It's so funny that they were like con era, okay, it's like a really violent R-rated movie about like cons on an airplane, like, do you think we need a fucking just ballad?

• 2:48:17Griffin Newman?

  This is the era I miss, which is what I refer to, even though often this was not the proper title, blank, blank, blank, parenthetical, love theme from. Any like action movie or disaster movie?

• 2:48:30Speaker 03

  Blade Runner, I think, is famously the-

• 2:48:32Griffin Newman?

  The one I always show people, cause it feels like this was too late for this to be happening. It feels like an aberration that snuck through and I'm constantly pointing at and saying like, can we bring this back? Is Adam Lambert's Time From Miracles love theme from Roland Emmerich's 2012? Which has a music video of him, like, all decked out in leather and spikes, walking through the wreckage over like shots of John Cusack driving a limo over like the fucking Pacific Rim.

• 2:49:01David Sims?

  My friend Carol-

• 2:49:02Griffin Newman?

  I watch this video once a month.

• 2:49:04David Sims?

  My friend Carolyn had never seen Independence Day. I watched it recently. Rewatched Independence Day. It's kinda crazy how in that movie, the first lady dies, like, right, like she dies. She was returned to Area 51 and she's like, goodbye, wife and, I'm sorry, husband and daughter. And they're like, huh, five minutes later, never mentioned again. Everyone's like high-fiving and it's really like killing you.

• 2:49:25Speaker 03

  America!

• 2:49:26David Sims?

  Like, she says, "Happy Independence Day, Daddy." He's like, hey, happy Independence Day to you. Like, they're just like, I mean, it's already a movie where like, no one sits down and is like, I think a billion people are dead.

• 2:49:36Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:49:37David Sims?

  Like, they are just booming cities, one by one.

• 2:49:41Griffin Newman?

  The question is, like, should Diane Warren have hitched her wagon to Feige and gone like, every Marvel movie needs a love song sung by like a Grobin? The, the.

• 2:49:53David Sims?

  Grobin sounds like Robot in Wall.

• 2:49:55Speaker 03

  I mean, did we ever hear that? Original piece of music.

• 2:49:58David Sims?

  I am the Grobin.

• 2:49:59Speaker 03

  The MCU, other than just the theme song itself?

• 2:50:02Griffin Newman?

  There are the Menken songs in Captain America, The First Avenger, that are fun, that I actually think should have been nominated, but get cut down a little bit in the film.

• 2:50:10David Sims?

  Did they not nominate one of them, The Star Spangled Man?

• 2:50:13Griffin Newman?

  I think they didn't.

• 2:50:13David Sims?

  Yeah, they should have.

• 2:50:14Griffin Newman?

  That's, that's the one time where they wrote, and then I guess the Hawkeye TV show has the fake.

• 2:50:18Speaker 03

  Don't know what that is?

• 2:50:19Griffin Newman?

  Captain America.

• 2:50:19Speaker 04

  Okay, Wally.

• 2:50:21Griffin Newman?

  Wally.

• 2:50:21Speaker 04

  Wally.

• 2:50:21Griffin Newman?

  Wally.

• 2:50:22Speaker 04

  Okay, so the plant get taken.

• 2:50:24Griffin Newman?

  The plant get taken.

• 2:50:25Speaker 04

  Eve is deemed defective.

• 2:50:28Griffin Newman?

  Well, you have, she's brought up, he's like, oh my god, plant life, chest opens up, nothing in there, what the fuck? We, the audience, also go, what the fuck? It's another good Stanton move where he originally had the audience see Otto clock that Eve had the plant and organize hiding it. It's another deleted scene that you can see in storyboard form. And he was like, A, I think we need to stay with Wally's perspective until, basically, he starts to get crushed. And B, the audience is gonna follow you and be, they're gonna lean in on the intrigue of genuinely where did the plant go? It helps us that we can't figure out what happened.

• 2:51:10David Sims?

  It's, it's classic Pixar, you know, Toy Story 2, them looking for the bag.

• 2:51:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:15David Sims?

  Monsters Inc., obviously, like, the door chase, right? It's, it's a good way to end a Pixar movie. I know it became schematic for them, but like, it's good.

• 2:51:22Griffin Newman?

  It feels like a magic trick, too, where it's like, we've been watching Eve this whole time. Shit, her chest has been closed, where the fuck did the fucking plant go? And that's, of course, what Captain McCray says, verbatim, where the fuck did the fucking plant?

• 2:51:34Speaker 03

  Every magic trick has three parts, and the second one is Wally.

• 2:51:37Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 2:51:38Speaker 03

  They throw the plant, it's a great shot of Wally poking his head out of the tube.

• 2:51:41Griffin Newman?

  Eve's defective, they put, they put the red, kinda like, cable fucking lock thing on her. They put, yeah, it's like the boot. Um, and send her down, and Wally's chasing after, we meet the other reject bots.

• 2:51:55David Sims?

  Um, and, uh, you know, what are they called Rogue Robots? Also fun, you know, Island of Misfit Toy Boys.

• 2:52:03Speaker 04

  Cuckoo's Nest kind of mental hospital vibes.

• 2:52:07Speaker 03

  Wally.

• 2:52:08David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. Right. The weirdos.

• 2:52:09Speaker 03

  Blaster behind him in slow motion and they all run rampant through the hallways of the Axioms.

• 2:52:15David Sims?

  Fun.

• 2:52:15Speaker 03

  And then eventually at some point they wind up, oh, he winds up in the, uh, escape pod.

• 2:52:20Griffin Newman?

  Well, they're wanted and all of those, uh, those aren't the gophers, but those sort of like big screen guard bots have taken the photo that now everyone's waking up a little bit by the danger of our robots turning on us. Which is another example of Wally starting to create the ripples that affect everyone.

• 2:52:38David Sims?

  Right. The whole system runs on everyone behaving. Like it does not run if the robots have their own idea.

• 2:52:43Griffin Newman?

  And some things, that's just alarming enough to break everyone out of the trance. But I guess basically in running away and hiding out from the guards, they see the gopher trying to eject the plant. The gopher's got the plant in his tummy and he puts it in the escape pod. And, and Wally wants to go after it. What were you gonna say?

• 2:53:02David Sims?

  I just, that's the idea that I love of like this, he, he's been infected with consciousness, right? And like, he brings consciousness back to all these people who've lost it. Like it's not just the robots coming to life. It's everyone coming to life. That's why I love this movie.

• 2:53:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I, I agree with you.

• 2:53:17David Sims?

  It's good.

• 2:53:17Griffin Newman?

  And that's why, yes, everything on the Axiom's important.

• 2:53:21David Sims?

  I think when I was 22 and I saw this movie in theaters and was so hyped for it and was then like probably mad that it was not like a Philip K. Dick style gonzo depressing fable of, you know, like I was like, oh, I don't like all the kind of Farsi kid shit at the end, like boring. And now I just watched that. I'm like, that's the point of the movie as much as anything else. And it's so funny, like, and it's so fun to watch with a kid who loves all the antics, of course.

• 2:53:44Griffin Newman?

  Sorry, I was just pulling up my iPad, but that's the other part of it is she's leading him to the escape pod because she wants Wally to leave.

• 2:53:52David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:53:52Griffin Newman?

  That she's actually fully angry at him.

• 2:53:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:53:55Griffin Newman?

  Is like, the fuck are you doing here? The plant's gone.

• 2:53:57Speaker 04

  It made, it made Eve look bad.

• 2:53:59Griffin Newman?

  This is your fault.

• 2:54:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:54:00Griffin Newman?

  I got the stupid fucking thing plugged into my head now. Unlike all the wanted screens and in trying to get him to go into the escape pod. They then see the gopher show up, hide in the shadows, put the plant in there. And Wally gets stuck in the escape pod, trying to save the plant, which she then thinks explodes.

• 2:54:20Speaker 03

  You see a moment- Great, great little bit of Wally being all manic in the porthole. Where he's like about to explode. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 2:54:25Griffin Newman?

  And the fucking parachute coming out, like all the crazy gag shit. And then the no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no of Eve, actually. She does care. She doesn't want him to die. And then like one of 10 Chekov gun moves this movie has is like, oh, right. We saw him learn how to use the fire extinguisher on Earth. He knows how to use this. He can propel himself. They start dancing, define dancing.

• 2:54:53Griffin Newman?

  Right. Cause Captain McCrae is also already now watched Eve's camera. And he's like, the fuck is this place? Earth. It's supposed to be green?

• 2:55:02David Sims?

  Not the cute paradise of my storybook.

• 2:55:04Griffin Newman?

  Trees, water.

• 2:55:06Speaker 03

  It's basically the same plot as Under the Skin.

• 2:55:08David Sims?

  I guess.

• 2:55:09Speaker 03

  Of like a creature becoming increasingly humanized. You know, in this case, not to their detriment.

• 2:55:15Griffin Newman?

  And Captain McCrae getting obsessively falling down a Wikipedia rabbit hole, basically.

• 2:55:20David Sims?

  Right. I guess it's important to remember Reedham restoring the planet. They do have the robots and the robots will be helpful. Now, where are they going to put all the cute garbage and stuff? I don't know. It does feel like that's gotta go somewhere.

• 2:55:35Speaker 04

  Well, my thing is send it into space.

• 2:55:37David Sims?

  Put it on the axiom.

• 2:55:38Speaker 04

  That was probably the way they could have resolved the problem in the first place. Instead of building a ship to get humans to leave the planet, fill the fucking ship with garbage and send it out to space.

• 2:55:47Speaker 03

  Like the low orbit anyway is so cluttered with satellites, thanks to Elon Musk.

• 2:55:51Griffin Newman?

  Thanks to Elon.

• 2:55:52Speaker 03

  You know, that it's like they can't even, it's already their backyard is full of junk. But I wonder if the robots, like the character robots are not going to want to do their functions. Because they have now discovered love and the joys of life and whatnot. And they're going to have to rely on the wall A's and et cetera.

• 2:56:09Griffin Newman?

  You see in the end credits, the way that like the robots are helping with the efforts, the way they're- Programming can be reapplied to making farming and such.

• 2:56:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:56:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they're gonna make a pizza.

• 2:56:20Speaker 03

  But like, I would feel bad asking Wally to like, go make, take out my trash for me or something like, he's got stuff to do.

• 2:56:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's got dates. He's really got to put the work in on this relationship if it's ever gonna survive. You have the Divine Dancing thing, which I just think is so beautiful.

• 2:56:36Speaker 03

  Beautiful.

• 2:56:37Griffin Newman?

  Them creating their own like colored trails.

• 2:56:40Speaker 03

  That is Newman fucking unleashed.

• 2:56:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:44Speaker 03

  That, that is a really.

• 2:56:45Griffin Newman?

  This is what it's, it's the argument that like, it's the other one, I think you could say is his best score only because it forces him to do a lot of stuff outside of his usual.

• 2:56:55David Sims?

  Yeah, he found it quite challenging, I think.

• 2:56:56Griffin Newman?

  And then you have moments where it's like, and Tommy, I'm gonna let you do your shit on this one.

• 2:57:00Speaker 03

  He actually, the whole score was written by AI. Sorry, I'm trying to get the guy to show the movie, but he just said like, write me a pretty score.

• 2:57:06Griffin Newman?

  Well, it was written on David, written by David when he was sad about missing his mommy.

• 2:57:10David Sims?

  Which David are we talking about?

• 2:57:11Speaker 03

  The one from AI.

• 2:57:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, his love is real, but he is not.

• 2:57:14David Sims?

  There's just too many Davids in the room right now. I'm sorry.

• 2:57:16Griffin Newman?

  Too many Davids.

• 2:57:17David Sims?

  You see, lost score, obviously to Slumdog, I guess, which does have, you know, pretty iconic music. Yeah.

• 2:57:22Griffin Newman?

  Thomas Noonan, another way, I keep saying Noonan.

• 2:57:25David Sims?

  Thomas Noonan's in this film.

• 2:57:26Griffin Newman?

  Thomas Newman is another one who I think is at 20 nominations and zero wins.

• 2:57:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:31Griffin Newman?

  He might only be behind Diane Warren.

• 2:57:33Speaker 03

  Tom Noonan also had 20.

• 2:57:35David Sims?

  It really fits Newman's, like, he's 15 noms. His thing of like, he's workman like, you know, like, he's, he's pretty reliable.

• 2:57:44Griffin Newman?

  He's distinctive, but I do think he's also taken for granted.

• 2:57:47David Sims?

  At late, he's been, but he's not taken for granted in that they like will nominate him for passenger.

• 2:57:52Griffin Newman?

  That's the crazy.

• 2:57:53David Sims?

  Where you're like, they clearly know him and recognize him.

• 2:57:57Griffin Newman?

  You're noticing the passenger score and you also refuse to give him a trophy.

• 2:58:01Speaker 03

  I mean, Pat, the connection between passengers and Wally is pronounced.

• 2:58:05Griffin Newman?

  I, I mean, I think they should.

• 2:58:07Speaker 03

  That is the live action remake of Wally.

• 2:58:08David Sims?

  His 1917 score, which was his last nom, I listened to all the time.

• 2:58:13Speaker 03

  The film that was playing that I was supposed to go see the night that you carried this new.

• 2:58:18Griffin Newman?

  He coming?

• 2:58:18Speaker 03

  To my apartment. The one, Lord, he was coming. I didn't get to see, I didn't, I was spared having to see 1917 in theaters.

• 2:58:24David Sims?

  It up fucking, I had twins and I was like, well, I'm not gonna get two snooze like, and then like SpongeBob meme one month later. Like the second snooze is being brought into my house.

• 2:58:36David Sims?

  He should have won that year because he lost to fucking Joker.

• 2:58:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:39David Sims?

  Jesus.

• 2:58:40Griffin Newman?

  But that was, I mean, it's like, uh, the Slumdog win, like even giving Jai Ho best song wasn't enough. Slumdog was such a fucking juggernaut. He should have won for this.

• 2:58:49David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:58:51Griffin Newman?

  He should have won for this.

• 2:58:52David Sims?

  Over, but this Slumdog moment.

• 2:58:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:56David Sims?

  Obviously that is not my favorite film of 2008.

• 2:58:59Griffin Newman?

  It was, it was.

• 2:59:00David Sims?

  Rewarding a Bollywood luminary and like his music. It does make sense.

• 2:59:05Griffin Newman?

  It does. It made sense in the moment.

• 2:59:07David Sims?

  Part of the kind of energy of that movie is the music and all that. Yeah.

• 2:59:10Griffin Newman?

  And then we had the Nemo conversation, which was like, he would have won if Howard Shore had been disqualified. Which is kind of aberrant that they didn't do that when they're usually so difficult.

• 2:59:21David Sims?

  But the score, that's, that's why the score branch is so hated. No, but I mean.

• 2:59:24Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes.

• 2:59:25David Sims?

  I made the case of, of course, the Return of the King score bangs hard, but also it is just, yeah, sometimes they're like, well, you can't have, we, we're not nominating Dune 2 because it's too, it's too similar to Dune 1. And I'm like, the Dune 2 score is completely different and you have allowed other sequel scores. Fucking Rise of Skywalker got a knob.

• 2:59:42Griffin Newman?

  That same year they shortlisted Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. And I'm like, guys, what's the line?

• 2:59:47David Sims?

  Elfman, let me show you what instrument he used for that one. A phone. Okay. He phoned it in.

• 2:59:55Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me.

• 2:59:55David Sims?

  Okay, sorry.

• 2:59:56Griffin Newman?

  He used a keyboard and he copy pasted. Control V, control P. Or it's control, control C, control V.

• 3:00:02Speaker 03

  See, this is why you could never write, write an Oscar nominated score.

• 3:00:06Griffin Newman?

  P is print. That's the problem. That's why it had to be V.

• 3:00:08Speaker 04

  Wally and Eve come back.

• 3:00:10Griffin Newman?

  Back on.

• 3:00:11Speaker 04

  From being out and out of space.

• 3:00:12David Sims?

  I know. It's another three hour app. What are we?

• 3:00:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know. I know. I know.

• 3:00:16Griffin Newman?

  It's Wally.

• 3:00:16David Sims?

  I know.

• 3:00:17Speaker 04

  Eve has the plant now.

• 3:00:18David Sims?

  Point at which it can't.

• 3:00:19Griffin Newman?

  She gets the plant back to Captain McCrae. She's, they're starting to.

• 3:00:24Speaker 04

  Wally to stay behind.

• 3:00:25Griffin Newman?

  They've also seen Gopher, so they're just like, something weird's going on here. We should be suspicious and cagey beyond the fact that everyone's looking for us now. But she gets through. She brings the plant to Captain McKay McCray and also sees the video footage he's been watching of her on Earth, which now has gone into her hibernation period as it's like continues auto playing. So she gets to watch Wally taking care of her when she wasn't conscious.

• 3:00:52Speaker 03

  They don't really milk that moment as much as they could. And I'm not saying that's as a negative, but like there is a real opportunity there to sort of squeeze you by the heart.

• 3:01:00Griffin Newman?

  They use some restraint.

• 3:01:01Speaker 03

  They use, yeah, they, it is restrained.

• 3:01:02Griffin Newman?

  But within that footage is Wally showing her hello, Dolly, her like standby mode body directed at the screen when she wasn't paying attention before. So now she sees it for the first time and you see her have the same hand realization. Activate fingers.

• 3:01:24Griffin Newman?

  Does the inner locking.

• 3:01:25Speaker 03

  Activate fingers.

• 3:01:26Griffin Newman?

  Right. So now Eve kind of gets it, but she's already shunned him off and Otto is going turbo, trying to block Captain McCray's efforts.

• 3:01:36Speaker 03

  Keep your Wreck-It Ralph terminology out of this conversation.

• 3:01:38Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry.

• 3:01:39David Sims?

  Well, he's a good guy though. Yeah, let's not be saying me.

• 3:01:42Griffin Newman?

  And then Otto reveals the, the second video from Fred Willard.

• 3:01:46Speaker 03

  Uh, right.

• 3:01:47Griffin Newman?

  Looking like they just busted him at the Tiki Theater. Very disheveled.

• 3:01:51Speaker 03

  Was he wearing a life jacket?

• 3:01:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. He didn't want to drown.

• 3:01:56Speaker 03

  Jesus.

• 3:01:57Griffin Newman?

  A lot of fluids in that place. Um, this is our episode on a children's film.

• 3:02:03Griffin Newman?

  But the idea that it's like five years later and things have gotten so bad and he's just like, never mind abandon.

• 3:02:10David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:02:11Griffin Newman?

  And.

• 3:02:11David Sims?

  The secret protocol, you're, you're actually just going to stay out here forever.

• 3:02:15Griffin Newman?

  And there's an argument that Otto is showcasing the same thing we're talking about with our other like hero robots, which is like Otto has clearly made a decision to hide this information from the humans. Otto has been serving all of these captains and at some point.

• 3:02:30Speaker 03

  Following protocol. I mean, that's, that's Otto's design.

• 3:02:33Griffin Newman?

  But like, was protocol not giving the captain the complete information?

• 3:02:38Speaker 03

  I think it was by any means necessary, making sure that humans do not get back to, he was following his prime directive.

• 3:02:44Griffin Newman?

  You, you just could argue that Otto is starting to make like creative decisions of how to execute that.

• 3:02:51Speaker 03

  Maybe in the way that like a learning language model, a large language model, whatever the fuck they are, uh, would, would make what appear to be creative decisions to gas somebody up when they're asking chat GPT for advice. I mean, I don't think it is actually thinking for itself in that its irrational feeling is defeating its programming in the way as all the other robots in the film. I think that's what distinguishes Otto from all of them is that it is bound to, it's bound to its order and can't really think novelistically.

• 3:03:18Griffin Newman?

  They both get knocked down the garbage chute, zapped by Otto. Wally gets crushed and smushed, but, uh, Eve sees that he has saved the plant and all is not lost.

• 3:03:32David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:33David Sims?

  It's also a fun moment with Mo.

• 3:03:36Griffin Newman?

  Right. Wally makes the introduction to Mo, who just uses as an opportunity to clean his hand off.

• 3:03:42David Sims?

  But like that.

• 3:03:43Griffin Newman?

  Mo joins the team. Yes.

• 3:03:45David Sims?

  The, the doors when the, uh, the garbage is being.

• 3:03:48Speaker 03

  Mo takes a big risk.

• 3:03:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:03:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. Mo says, life can be messy.

• 3:03:53Griffin Newman?

  I love the moment of Wally's sort of like back hinge flipping out his hook that he had previously been using for the igloo. And you're like, that's a pretty perfect place to put Mo. We got our fucking core three now, you know, like the three of them, like Eve can carry Wally. Mo can be on Wally's back and we're just fucking all business now.

• 3:04:13Speaker 03

  Let's get, what I'm taking from this is that maybe my marriage needs a third.

• 3:04:17David Sims?

  Sort of like Ted. Right.

• 3:04:19Speaker 03

  Achieve harmony. We need an Eve.

• 3:04:21Griffin Newman?

  You need an Eve. Maybe the Eve is your couples therapist.

• 3:04:25Speaker 03

  I'll, I'll bring that up to her this afternoon. I think the last time I was here, I also had couples therapy in the afternoon, which is not a daily occurrence, but more of a coincidence, but.

• 3:04:32David Sims?

  How did you like cancel it once because of Blank Check?

• 3:04:34Speaker 03

  I think I did actually have to cancel because of Schindler's List, which is.

• 3:04:38Griffin Newman?

  Glad that's an end your marriage.

• 3:04:40David Sims?

  I remember being quite abashed about that. Not about throwing a lot at you.

• 3:04:44Griffin Newman?

  I will say, it is a point of pride that Blank Check has not yet knowingly ruined a marriage.

• 3:04:49Speaker 03

  I'm sure it's happened.

• 3:04:50Griffin Newman?

  We don't.

• 3:04:50Speaker 03

  Not because you don't know about it.

• 3:04:52David Sims?

  Right. Like maybe someone just listened to us so much that the other person was like, you know what? I'm out of here. Like enough already with these fucking guys.

• 3:05:01Griffin Newman?

  I apologize. People come up to me like, hey, I'm sorry. I don't actually listen to the show, but like my, my partner's obsessed with it. So it's on all the time in the home. And I just go like, I'm, I'm so sorry if this is not a thing you're opting into.

• 3:05:13Speaker 03

  Could be worse. They could be really into Ice Age of the Meltdown.

• 3:05:16Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 3:05:17David Sims?

  Wally.

• 3:05:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they're they're just in fucking mission mode now because Eve is just like, A, it's like her protective instinct is kicking in. Wally is close to death. His circuit board is fried. There's no time to waste. He has, you know, in a slightly Christ like way, potentially sacrificed himself.

• 3:05:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:05:38Griffin Newman?

  For the sins of humanity to try to save them.

• 3:05:40David Sims?

  But that always, I was watching the movie and I was like, he'll be okay. Like, that would be too.

• 3:05:43Griffin Newman?

  I had half a moment of, is Pixar gonna do it?

• 3:05:46David Sims?

  Nah.

• 3:05:47Speaker 03

  I think future generations of people, once they repopulate the earth, should worship Wally.

• 3:05:51Griffin Newman?

  They should.

• 3:05:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. As a god, or at least a child.

• 3:05:53David Sims?

  This is a good movie.

• 3:05:55Griffin Newman?

  But they've locked Captain McCray up. Wally, even Mo, are trying to find a way to get to the Lido deck because if they can put the plant in the, whatever it is. The hollow deck. The ship will autopilot itself. It will override autopilot himself even.

• 3:06:15Griffin Newman?

  And just go straight to it. And I just, yeah, McCray just need to give a shit. He's still trying to stay in the hover chair and do everything he can, but then you finally get to the breaking point. As you said, this excellent piece of animation of, I gotta fucking walk. None of this is gonna happen if I don't make the effort to take the first step. Yeah.

• 3:06:31David Sims?

  And it's such beautiful walking. Little blobby boy.

• 3:06:34Speaker 04

  I mean, this is really when Wally sacrifices himself, though. He gets not, gets, gets crushed in the trash compactor. It's that Otto is trying to drop down the chamber where they're supposed to put the plant into.

• 3:06:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Well, right. The first thing that happens is that Otto like shocks him, which fries the circuit board. And then now he's additionally physically crushed.

• 3:06:56Speaker 03

  I like that they fool Otto with a drawing of a plant.

• 3:06:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:06:59Speaker 03

  Cause Otto's.

• 3:07:00Griffin Newman?

  The projection. And, and yeah, and it's just like the ripple effects of everyone that Wally has affected in some way are woken up. Now everyone is suddenly joined in the effort.

• 3:07:11Speaker 03

  Very Paddington-esque in his way.

• 3:07:13Griffin Newman?

  The, the sort of, I know that guy thing where people are like, oh, yeah.

• 3:07:17Speaker 03

  It's like, hey, that's Wally. Go, Wally. Out the window.

• 3:07:20Griffin Newman?

  Right. In a, in a civilization where people have no social interactions, Wally is like their favorite thing they've ever met because it's the last time they had a feeling about anything.

• 3:07:31Griffin Newman?

  It's a smart choice that it's just hyperspeed and it's like, once you get the boot in there, we're just gonna go straight.

• 3:07:37David Sims?

  Yep.

• 3:07:37Speaker 04

  That's how, that's how it's all designed.

• 3:07:39Griffin Newman?

  But then you have what I find so emotionally affecting is Eve in that panic mode of like, I don't have a second to waste. How do I keep him alive? How do I save him? And going, trying to like reconstitute with all the spare parts inside his little trash home, blowing the hole in the ceiling to like light him up. And then that moment where you're like, are they going fucking cuckoo's nest? Like, is he gone? And, and the long recalibration of the eyes readjusting and then the satisfaction of the droop.

• 3:08:08David Sims?

  So satisfying.

• 3:08:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:09David Sims?

  I just, you can't end a Pixar movie that way.

• 3:08:11Speaker 03

  I'm just picturing like Mo breaking out of the window and running away into space.

• 3:08:16Griffin Newman?

  This movie felt so audacious that I was like, are all rules out the window? Can they get away with doing that? I didn't want it to happen.

• 3:08:23Speaker 03

  She's gotta give him a big sloppy electric kiss.

• 3:08:25Griffin Newman?

  Tension from it.

• 3:08:26David Sims?

  Yeah, there's tension for sure.

• 3:08:28Griffin Newman?

  And then obviously Toy Story 3 is like actively toeing the line of that tension even more of like, are we gonna do it? Guys?

• 3:08:35David Sims?

  That's what I don't like about that moment.

• 3:08:36Griffin Newman?

  I know that's what you don't like.

• 3:08:37David Sims?

  But others do.

• 3:08:38Speaker 03

  I don't find it credible at all.

• 3:08:39David Sims?

  It's not credible.

• 3:08:40Speaker 03

  Never believed it.

• 3:08:40David Sims?

  I just, I'm like, right. I'm like, you know, just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

• 3:08:44Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a credible moment and I think what's credible about is it's more about the acceptance of death than the fact that the threat is actually real.

• 3:08:50David Sims?

  Just what I want from a fucking Toy Story movie.

• 3:08:53Griffin Newman?

  That is exactly what I want from my Toy Story movie.

• 3:08:56David Sims?

  They're immortal. They can't die. Part of, that's their curse, which is what I like about the Toy Story movies, is the way it explores.

• 3:09:02Speaker 03

  The only good thing about Toy Story 3 is that Totoro's in it.

• 3:09:05Griffin Newman?

  That's, you're like totally just Toy Story 3 in the trash.

• 3:09:08David Sims?

  Potato head turns into the tortilla.

• 3:09:10Speaker 03

  Throw it all in the incinerator where it belongs.

• 3:09:12Griffin Newman?

  You don't like Lotso?

• 3:09:13Speaker 03

  No, I do not.

• 3:09:14David Sims?

  Why would he like Lotso?

• 3:09:16Griffin Newman?

  He creates a good workplace. All he wants to do is just hug his employees.

• 3:09:19Speaker 03

  Lotso looks like he smells bad. I'm not into it.

• 3:09:20Griffin Newman?

  He smells like strawberries.

• 3:09:21Speaker 04

  Anyway, we see a bunch of greenery and it's nice to think that Wally played a big part in clearing all of the debris that enabled the plants to grow.

• 3:09:30Griffin Newman?

  Right. You're like, even if they still have these giant trash towers to deal with, he did at least create open enough spaces that they can plant things. His work wasn't in vain.

• 3:09:40Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 3:09:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And, and society rebuilds itself as depicted in the evolution of artistic styles and movements.

• 3:09:48Speaker 04

  And it's a great movie. Wally's my boy, man.

• 3:09:50Griffin Newman?

  When you get to like fucking pointillist Wally and, and Eva under the tree. It's a great movie. I love this fucking movie.

• 3:09:59Speaker 03

  It is. It hits the ending quickly. It's a, it's, it's not abrupt, but it's like, it's very efficient.

• 3:10:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And the greatest tension at this point is just can she save him? And if it takes too long to get home, then you don't believe there's any way to save him.

• 3:10:14Speaker 03

  Yes, it is. My only reservation is that I, I, I think that the, the bit with the ship tipping over and all the babies sliding is thematically on point, but I always wished it were a little bit more viscerally satisfying after the 30 minutes of this like great tati like scramble through the ship, which feels so balletic and fun. This feels a little clumsy, but maybe it's supposed, I don't know. Just I always wanted something that like pulled me in a little bit more at the end.

• 3:10:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. This is one of the movies that broke the Academy Awards.

• 3:10:46David Sims?

  It is. Let's just briefly touch on right on the research here. Um, there was some concern like, um, you know, up, I feel like is the bigger anxiety point, but they'd already had, um, Ratatouille where they had some of the kind of like, fuck, is there like, there's no merch.

• 3:11:06Griffin Newman?

  It's this movie pretentious and Ratatouille did well, but it was down.

• 3:11:11David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:11:12Griffin Newman?

  It was a hit, but it, it was leggier. It was less front loaded and it still ended up way below.

• 3:11:19Speaker 03

  Wally doesn't even have legs.

• 3:11:20Griffin Newman?

  This is true. He's got treads. Um, Wally was an uptick, but they definitely were worried about it. And the marketing, I mean, we mentioned the fucking Hidden City Cafe teaser, but I remember the Superbowl ad for this movie was Buzz Lightyear and Woody watching the game. And Woody turns to Buzz and go, you hear about this Wally guy? And they were so freaked out by this movie that they were like, can we just remind you of our legacy and our track record? And use that to buffer, please trust us.

• 3:11:48David Sims?

  Movie also very expensive.

• 3:11:49Speaker 03

  It's a hundred and 80 million dollar budget.

• 3:11:52David Sims?

  Yes, very high. Uh, it opened to 63 domestic. It grossed 223 million.

• 3:11:58Griffin Newman?

  Okay, 223.

• 3:11:58David Sims?

  521. So it was below Ratatouille.

• 3:12:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:02David Sims?

  Which had been below The Incredible.

• 3:12:04Griffin Newman?

  It was below Ratatouille worldwide.

• 3:12:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. How did it play?

• 3:12:07Griffin Newman?

  Cause Ratatouille was 200 domestic. It went above Ratatouille.

• 3:12:11Speaker 03

  Wally feels like a universal.

• 3:12:12David Sims?

  Ratatouille made 623 worldwide. Yeah. Cars also obviously had been a disappointment to some extent on release, although it had a long tail, you know, merch wise. It won best film at LaFka, which is a big deal.

• 3:12:28Griffin Newman?

  Big deal. There was a real feeling of like, is it time to let this into the bigger conversation?

• 3:12:34David Sims?

  Instead, it does get six Oscar nominations. Screenplay, animated. You want to guess?

• 3:12:39Griffin Newman?

  Screenplay, animated. It gets both sound categories.

• 3:12:44David Sims?

  Correct.

• 3:12:44Griffin Newman?

  And then score and song.

• 3:12:46David Sims?

  Right. So it's like, six is a lot, but at the same time, it is, you know, they're kind of in their categories.

• 3:12:52Griffin Newman?

  I mean, arguably, the only two other nominations it could have realistically gotten were picture and director. And it felt like they were on the bubble and it was a real conversation and it felt like you were reading a lot of think pieces of like.

• 3:13:03David Sims?

  Had there been 10 nominees, obviously it's a best picture nominee.

• 3:13:06Griffin Newman?

  And, and that's what breaks the Oscars.

• 3:13:08David Sims?

  You know, becomes as Toy Story 3 becomes.

• 3:13:10Griffin Newman?

  It's that this doesn't make it. Dark Knight doesn't make it. And I've always contended that Gran Turino not making it is the third one. Although, you know, Dark Knight and Wally are a much bigger deal, but it's like, if we're getting like more elevated, serious blockbusters, do we need a space to recognize these? If these animated movies are becoming this artistic, do we need a space to recognize these?

• 3:13:34Griffin Newman?

  And yeah, drives them insane. Despite, as we said in our Slumdog Millionaire episode, Slumdog Millionaire was the highest grossing best picture nominee until Oppenheimer. They had a movie that was a genuine blockbuster crossover success. And they were so freaked out by the fact that they didn't show enough respect to Wally and Dark Knight that they, they go to 10 the next year. And up becomes only the second animated film to ever be nominated for best picture in a 10. Toy Story 3 is the third, has not been another one in 16 years.

• 3:14:07David Sims?

  Um, I have it. Where do I have it on my 2008 list?

• 3:14:11Griffin Newman?

  It's my number two.

• 3:14:12David Sims?

  What's your number one? Sinectica.

• 3:14:13Griffin Newman?

  Sinectica.

• 3:14:14David Sims?

  Mine too.

• 3:14:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:15David Sims?

  I have a 12. Maybe I should get a higher.

• 3:14:17Griffin Newman?

  Oh, get the fuck, I'm gonna throw my wallet at you. What do you have above it?

• 3:14:21David Sims?

  A lot of good movies. I think I'll get a little higher though. I really like it.

• 3:14:24Griffin Newman?

  Name one. Happy go lucky?

• 3:14:26David Sims?

  New York. Happy go lucky. I think we're gonna get it up to seven.

• 3:14:31Griffin Newman?

  You have it the reader.

• 3:14:32Speaker 03

  What is it? What is it? What is it leapfrogging?

• 3:14:35David Sims?

  I'd I'll tell you, above it, I definitely had movies like Synecdoche, Happy Go Lucky, Speed Racer, Milk, Wendy and Lucy.

• 3:14:42Speaker 03

  Milk?

• 3:14:42David Sims?

  These are big movies for me. Milk is the best.

• 3:14:45Griffin Newman?

  I love these movies. They are lower down on my 10.

• 3:14:48David Sims?

  And then like it's sort of in more like the Rachel Getting Married, In Bruges, Hunger, Stepbrothers.

• 3:14:53Griffin Newman?

  See, Rachel's.

• 3:14:53David Sims?

  Really good.

• 3:14:54Griffin Newman?

  Rachel's maybe my three or four.

• 3:14:55Speaker 03

  Not a bad year for American film.

• 3:14:57David Sims?

  Good year.

• 3:14:58Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 3:14:58Speaker 03

  Rachel Getting Married, incredible.

• 3:15:00Griffin Newman?

  But it's a terrible Oscar year.

• 3:15:02Speaker 03

  I'll take the life and times of Harvey Milk over Milk any day of the week.

• 3:15:05Griffin Newman?

  You're like, we had good fucking options and like three of the best picture nominees are kind of wet blankets.

• 3:15:11David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, of course. I mean, I think like Frost Nixon is obviously that is that Frost Nixon contributes to the 10 best picture nominees as much as Dark Knight and Wally.

• 3:15:24Griffin Newman?

  Reader's the one that's egregious, but Frost Nixon is a little bit of like, are we just like auto nominating anything that feels like an Oscar movie?

• 3:15:31David Sims?

  Reader, you were like, I could find a few people who thought that was good.

• 3:15:35Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:15:35David Sims?

  There was not one person on earth who was like, one of the best five movies of the year is Ron Howard.

• 3:15:40Griffin Newman?

  It was also like, that play was really good.

• 3:15:41David Sims?

  Yeah, play's pretty good. Yeah.

• 3:15:42Griffin Newman?

  They didn't really translate it well.

• 3:15:44David Sims?

  It translated poorly.

• 3:15:45Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:15:45David Sims?

  I saw the play.

• 3:15:46Griffin Newman?

  Let's give it eight Oscar nominations.

• 3:15:48David Sims?

  And it was like, you know, it felt like that, you know, those moments where the like, like Green Book, where the old Oscar voters like, I know we're changing. I can't help it. Like, you know, like one more time, please. You know, like Frost Nixon.

• 3:15:59Griffin Newman?

  It's Slumdog, Frost Nixon, Reader, Milk.

• 3:16:03David Sims?

  The Milk's so, so much better than those. And, uh, what's the, eh, the fifth one?

• 3:16:09Griffin Newman?

  The fifth one I'm forgetting.

• 3:16:11David Sims?

  Benjamin Button. And I like that movie a lot, but even that one is at the time, everyone's like a little underwhelmed. It's a little treacly, you know, like just.

• 3:16:21Griffin Newman?

  And, and like, we're nominating that over Dark Knight and Wally, which actually kind of really hit the zeitgeist.

• 3:16:28Speaker 03

  My son is, who's never seen a minute of Benjamin Button is fascinated by the premise. He's always like, what's that movie about the guy who was born to be 100 years old and ages backwards?

• 3:16:35Griffin Newman?

  You maybe should show Asa Benjamin Button supercuts like Best of Blobby. Like, I don't think he likes the whole movie.

• 3:16:41Speaker 03

  Did someone make a Benjamin Button supercut that isn't just thirst?

• 3:16:43Griffin Newman?

  He would like, like.

• 3:16:44Speaker 03

  Ben Affleck.

• 3:16:47Griffin Newman?

  He would like Benjamin Button in the revival tent.

• 3:16:50Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 3:16:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:51Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 3:16:52David Sims?

  Uh, so Fox Office came, right?

• 3:16:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:57David Sims?

  Uh, sorry, I'm just coordinating a little photo shoot, maybe. Okay.

• 3:17:01Griffin Newman?

  Coordinating a little photo?

• 3:17:03David Sims?

  I interviewed somebody and they, they're.

• 3:17:06Griffin Newman?

  They're gonna take pictures of you?

• 3:17:07David Sims?

  Of.

• 3:17:10David Sims?

  I should do that for any time I interview someone. It's just like me going like, and who interviewed him? But David Sims, here, seen.

• 3:17:17Griffin Newman?

  Can I paint you?

• 3:17:19David Sims?

  I interviewed, uh, what's his name? Kane Parsons.

• 3:17:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. How's that movie? We'll all know by the time this comes out.

• 3:17:23David Sims?

  I'm quite fond of it, especially all the parts where they are in the back room.

• 3:17:28Speaker 03

  Oh, cool.

• 3:17:28Griffin Newman?

  That's really a good percentage of the movie.

• 3:17:30David Sims?

  But there was a, yeah, sure. But there was a moment during our interview when he said, yeah, no, I started to get into this stuff, liminal horror and all that stuff. You, my first year of high school, which was the first year of COVID 2020. And I, each, you can hear it on the audio of our interview, right? The loud shotgun blast I do to my.

• 3:17:48Griffin Newman?

  You ate a bowl of bullet soup?

• 3:17:52David Sims?

  Where I was just like, oh, pardon me.

• 3:17:58David Sims?

  Drink poison. Okay. So it's number one at the box office, Griffin. What's it opening against? Opening to a very surprising $50 million. Wanted, I feel like wanted like massively over indexed. Because, uh, it was sort of the Angelina Jolie moment of like, this is serious. Like she is a magnet.

• 3:18:15Speaker 03

  The only thing I wanted was to never see that movie again. Am I right?

• 3:18:18David Sims?

  That movie is a little abrasive, I will say.

• 3:18:21Griffin Newman?

  She is really good in it though. I, cause this is the Changeling Year, which is a movie, you know, I don't like. And I always contended, her, her best supporting actress would have been a more deserving nomination and wanted over Changeling for lead actress.

• 3:18:34David Sims?

  I, I, I think that's a bad take.

• 3:18:37Griffin Newman?

  I don't like that movie and I think Jolie is really good.

• 3:18:40David Sims?

  I think she, she definitely like gives wanted some pep. Uh, and she's doing her assignment.

• 3:18:46Speaker 03

  A little curve in its bullet, if you will.

• 3:18:48David Sims?

  I'm a Changeling defender.

• 3:18:49Griffin Newman?

  Strange, specific performance, but maybe I need to re-watch Changeling.

• 3:18:52Speaker 03

  Terrible movie. Never needs to be thought of again. Wanted, I mean.

• 3:18:55Griffin Newman?

  That guy, I mean, remember more Beckman Bentoff? He's a product of, uh, Harry Knowles. It's just them gassing up the, what was that? The night shift? Yeah. And whatever the fuck it was.

• 3:19:05David Sims?

  Those are bad movies in.

• 3:19:07Griffin Newman?

  Night watch.

• 3:19:07Speaker 03

  Night watch.

• 3:19:08David Sims?

  Yeah. I wanted, I remember, I haven't seen it since 2008, but yeah. Uh, every time it made a choice, it made the loudest, most.

• 3:19:17Speaker 03

  Yes, the wrong.

• 3:19:17Griffin Newman?

  Well, they have loomers who weave tapestries that tell them where to bend bullets.

• 3:19:23David Sims?

  When McAvoy creams Chris Pratt in the face with a, right, with a keyboard. And then the words fuck you, but the teeth are filling in like the O's or like the, you know, like come at your screen.

• 3:19:35Speaker 03

  The most inspired visual choice in that film.

• 3:19:37David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:19:37Speaker 03

  Chris Pratt was in that movie?

• 3:19:39Griffin Newman?

  Chris Pratt plays his coworker who cups him.

• 3:19:41David Sims?

  It's, it's Chris Pratt in like sweaty chubby mode.

• 3:19:44Speaker 03

  Right. Back when he was in playing office workers.

• 3:19:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. But that movie, yes, you're right. Uh, massively overperformed.

• 3:19:50David Sims?

  It massively overperformed. Number three at the box office, right? These are all films I like saw alone in cinemas in my first year living in New York. Uh, comedy, uh, TV adaptation.

• 3:20:00Griffin Newman?

  It's the, it's the first Sex and the City movie, is it not?

• 3:20:03David Sims?

  You are incorrect. That movie is at number nine though.

• 3:20:05Griffin Newman?

  Oh, okay. It's a different.

• 3:20:07David Sims?

  Older TV.

• 3:20:08Griffin Newman?

  It's an older, it's not the honeymooners movie. It's an older, what's it opening to?

• 3:20:13David Sims?

  Well, it opened last week.

• 3:20:15Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 3:20:16David Sims?

  To 38 million. It's going to end up at 130 domestic.

• 3:20:22Griffin Newman?

  It's get smart.

• 3:20:23David Sims?

  Get smart.

• 3:20:24Griffin Newman?

  It was a hit.

• 3:20:24David Sims?

  Forgotten.

• 3:20:25Griffin Newman?

  Forgotten. They kept threatening to make a sequel and they were like, didn't you guys like this? And people were like, what?

• 3:20:31Speaker 03

  There is not.

• 3:20:31David Sims?

  What?

• 3:20:33Speaker 03

  There is not an inch of pop culture that is not somewhat connected to Anne Hathaway over the last 30 years.

• 3:20:38David Sims?

  She rocks.

• 3:20:39Speaker 03

  She's gonna, she's having to have a very, uh, defining year this year and we all recognize.

• 3:20:43David Sims?

  By defining, you mean every single movie features her.

• 3:20:46Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 3:20:46Griffin Newman?

  Her and Zendaya are having an arm wrestling match.

• 3:20:49David Sims?

  It could work against her.

• 3:20:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, in, in some senses, maybe, but I think it just.

• 3:20:53David Sims?

  Four or three?

• 3:20:54Griffin Newman?

  Zendaya's got Dune, Drama, Spider-Man, Odyssey, Euphoria, season three.

• 3:21:00David Sims?

  And then you for, luckily it seems like Euphoria season three is going to pass without anyone talking about it.

• 3:21:05Speaker 03

  I do think that this year will sort of cement in the public consciousness to an even greater degree than it had before, that Anne Hathaway is an institution.

• 3:21:12Griffin Newman?

  Hathaway fucking rules. I mean Hathaway's.

• 3:21:14David Sims?

  We're very pro Hathaway in this house. In this house, we respect Anne Hathaway. I worry this year will be too much Hathaway.

• 3:21:21Griffin Newman?

  So it's Mother Mary, Devil Wears Prada, Odyssey, Verity, House at the End of Oak Street? Is there a sixth one I'm forgetting?

• 3:21:29Speaker 03

  But with the exception of Verity and Devil Wears Prada, I think those movies have such different core audiences that I don't think it's gonna feel like.

• 3:21:36Griffin Newman?

  It is a widespread.

• 3:21:38David Sims?

  Sure.

• 3:21:39Griffin Newman?

  Is it just five or is there?

• 3:21:40David Sims?

  It's, I'm just seeing five, although I could have sworn there was. There's a movie called Alone at Dawn, the Ron Howard movie.

• 3:21:47Griffin Newman?

  Right, that's coming out next year, I think.

• 3:21:48David Sims?

  That, right, doesn't have a date yet.

• 3:21:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:21:50David Sims?

  But that's the other one on her. I mean, my main concern is that Prada 2 might like suck really bad.

• 3:21:58Speaker 03

  I've heard that it is basically the same as the first one, but obviously diluted.

• 3:22:02Griffin Newman?

  The first one's a masterpiece.

• 3:22:03David Sims?

  That's fine.

• 3:22:04Griffin Newman?

  I'm fine with it.

• 3:22:05David Sims?

  Right. If it's like a kinda like base hit, like that's okay.

• 3:22:09Griffin Newman?

  I was worried it was gonna be like.

• 3:22:11David Sims?

  Me too.

• 3:22:11Griffin Newman?

  Super Mario Galaxy of Devil Wears Prada where just shit happens.

• 3:22:15Speaker 03

  It just starts.

• 3:22:15Griffin Newman?

  And they point at the screen.

• 3:22:17David Sims?

  And then she goes.

• 3:22:18Griffin Newman?

  And a car.

• 3:22:20David Sims?

  And you're like, yay.

• 3:22:22Griffin Newman?

  I, I really have been worried of like jangling keys shit with that movie.

• 3:22:25Speaker 03

  I'm troubled by the implication of the trailer that she does not remember Anne Hathaway. And it's like, how advanced is her dementia?

• 3:22:31David Sims?

  No, but that's the problem. No, she did it. She worked for her six months.

• 3:22:34Speaker 03

  It was a memorable six months. Come on.

• 3:22:36David Sims?

  For us? The joke for her is this was not remotely memorable. I do think that trailer did make it seem like it was like a Men in Black 2 style. We need to restore her memory.

• 3:22:48Griffin Newman?

  That might be too difficult a bit to sell in the trailer.

• 3:22:50David Sims?

  Exactly. I get the idea that she's aloof and they're doing that joke, but it's to the point where you're like, hey, Joe Biden, anyone know?

• 3:22:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Uh, is Kung Fu Panda still in the top five?

• 3:23:01David Sims?

  Kung Fu Panda, you have guessed correctly, is number four at the box office.

• 3:23:05Griffin Newman?

  That's another one that overperformed and there was a real arms race of they ended up very close in terms of the final totals.

• 3:23:12David Sims?

  Sure, sure. Kung Fu Panda's fun. It's got a Kung Fu Panda in it.

• 3:23:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:23:15David Sims?

  There you go.

• 3:23:16Griffin Newman?

  But I think there was a little bit of like.

• 3:23:17David Sims?

  Master Uke?

• 3:23:18Griffin Newman?

  Did, did.

• 3:23:18David Sims?

  He's there.

• 3:23:19Griffin Newman?

  Pixar go too esoteric.

• 3:23:22David Sims?

  Sure.

• 3:23:22Griffin Newman?

  Versus Kung Fu Panda's.

• 3:23:24David Sims?

  Right, right. Pixar's like, ah, yes, the existential crisis and Kung Fu Panda's like, the panda's large, yet does Kung Fu.

• 3:23:30Speaker 03

  The title explains the plot.

• 3:23:31Griffin Newman?

  And anecdote I've heard so many times, but the urban legend I have heard that when Jeffrey Katzenberg was pitch Kung Fu Panda, his first response was, I like all three of those words. And that movie is the best executed version of Kung Fu Panda. I think when it came out, everyone was like, oh, it's actually like good. But, uh, you know, Wally was trying something, uh, very ambitious and they ended up at the exact same number and Wally cost.

• 3:23:56Speaker 03

  You don't hear a lot of podcasts about Kung Fu Panda these days.

• 3:23:58Griffin Newman?

  No, and there's four of them. There are four.

• 3:24:01David Sims?

  But right, Kung Fu Panda did endure, I guess, as right sequel fodder and all that as well. Number five of the box office is a film in a cinematic universe that's getting its start.

• 3:24:11Griffin Newman?

  This is.

• 3:24:12David Sims?

  Here in 2008.

• 3:24:13Griffin Newman?

  Is this Hulk?

• 3:24:14David Sims?

  The Incredible Hulk.

• 3:24:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:24:17David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, bad movie.

• 3:24:19Griffin Newman?

  Really bad.

• 3:24:20David Sims?

  But did introduce me to my favorite MCU character, Liv Tyler's Betty Ross. And I finally got to see her one more time recently.

• 3:24:27Griffin Newman?

  I love when we're, yes, or can we quickly, if you want to salute our president?

• 3:24:31Speaker 03

  There he is. Bright and red. I thought you were going to say Tim Ross's Abomination, which is most Americans favorite MCU character.

• 3:24:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:24:39Speaker 03

  Also, actor who's clearly the most delighted to be in those films. Having a great time. Charm me to everyone around.

• 3:24:47Griffin Newman?

  You know what my favorite Betty Ross scene is?

• 3:24:49David Sims?

  Uh, tell me.

• 3:24:50Griffin Newman?

  It's tough to pick because she's got so many good moments in the MCU.

• 3:24:53David Sims?

  I can't guess because there's too many.

• 3:24:55Griffin Newman?

  My personal favorite Betty Ross scene is when her human body walks into the raft to visit her incarcerated Red Hulk former president father. And her head is definitely the same as her human body.

• 3:25:07David Sims?

  Yep.

• 3:25:09Griffin Newman?

  Both things were shot at the same time.

• 3:25:10David Sims?

  All in union.

• 3:25:11Griffin Newman?

  In front of a camera on a real set next to Harrison Ford.

• 3:25:16David Sims?

  God, what if it turned out Joe Biden wasn't insane? Yeah, it wasn't, I'm sorry, uh, you know, uh, losing his mental faculties, but instead it was just suffering from Red Hulk's disease and that would have been.

• 3:25:26Griffin Newman?

  The pills.

• 3:25:27Speaker 03

  It would answer some questions and raise others.

• 3:25:29David Sims?

  Others, yes. Number six was, oh, a good film here, The Love Guru.

• 3:25:34Griffin Newman?

  We, wow, we covered a lot of.

• 3:25:35David Sims?

  Covered a lot of these. Number seven, we've covered this one too, with this very person, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Number eight, another film we've covered, M. Night Shyamalan's The Happening.

• 3:25:44Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 3:25:45David Sims?

  Number nine, a film we've yet to cover, Sex and the City. Number 10, a film we've yet to cover, I Wonder If We Will. The opportunity has kind of passed us by. You don't mess with the zone.

• 3:25:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's, that's maybe top of the list of movies I used to argue are masterpieces that I am terrified to ever rewatch.

• 3:26:06David Sims?

  In my memory, it is a movie that, you know, has a good heart, like it wants everyone to be friends. Maybe it doesn't have the most textured view of the geopolitical situation.

• 3:26:18Griffin Newman?

  In 2008, it felt like the politics were surprisingly good for the time for a movie that was that overly stupid.

• 3:26:25Speaker 03

  That movie is the moment when the democratic leadership stopped aging. It's been frozen in time.

• 3:26:30Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:26:31David Sims?

  Are people still known like Sohan?

• 3:26:32Griffin Newman?

  Today, that movie might feel like a weapon of mass destruction.

• 3:26:35Speaker 03

  Zoran, maybe.

• 3:26:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. You, well, truly don't mess with the Zoran.

• 3:26:42David Sims?

  That's all the box office came.

• 3:26:44Speaker 03

  Not me. That's happened like three times.

• 3:26:45David Sims?

  Yeah, it happens.

• 3:26:46Speaker 03

  I'll never learn.

• 3:26:46David Sims?

  Uh, we're done. We've been talking for so long. Wally is a very good movie, and I think it's nice. And he's my good friend.

• 3:26:52Griffin Newman?

  He's, he's really the best of us.

• 3:26:54David Sims?

  Yes. Now, next week on the show, we're going to meet another good friend, John Carter. A slightly less successful movie.

• 3:27:03Speaker 03

  You have a Pulitzer Prize winning writer, Tony Kushner is the guest on that one.

• 3:27:08Griffin Newman?

  But Michael Chabon is the co-writer of.

• 3:27:11David Sims?

  Well, he was the co-writer of some shit. I mean, God bless.

• 3:27:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but that was, this was a passion project. I mean, we'll get into all of it. It is, it is a fascinating movie. Uh, it arguably has become the shorthand. I think we were saying this, we were talking about this in Madison Ben, that we were like, John Carter kind of took over the like, you know, Waterworld replaced Ishtar, Ishtar replaced Heaven's Gate. John Carter just is the thing that people invoke as.

• 3:27:38Speaker 03

  Jonah Hex made a bid for it, but couldn't compete.

• 3:27:40Griffin Newman?

  No. And I think some of it just boils down to this movie costs this much and it's just called John Carter, and I'm supposed to know what that is? Uh, we will talk about it next week. I'm very excited. It's a fascinating movie to, to. Look at now and pull apart 10 years.

• 3:27:57David Sims?

  I'm, I'm excited to rewatch. I've only seen the one time.

• 3:28:00Speaker 04

  Erlich, thank you for being here. Do you have anything you want to plug?

• 3:28:03David Sims?

  Done. We are done.

• 3:28:06Speaker 03

  Do I have anything I want to plug? I'm writing a book that's going to come out in like three years. So start.

• 3:28:10David Sims?

  I'm excited.

• 3:28:14Speaker 03

  This recording, not written a single word.

• 3:28:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:28:17Speaker 03

  But working on it.

• 3:28:18Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna joke your finish, but you just want to leave the manuscript out in the sun for three, three years.

• 3:28:23Speaker 03

  Yes. More for caller style. On my dead body for my wife to discover.

• 3:28:28Speaker 04

  Oh, I, I want to say I got an idea from Wally. There's a Twinkie that Wally feeds.

• 3:28:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Hal hangs out and says.

• 3:28:35Speaker 04

  I think I might start burying Twinkies with the jeans. Continue.

• 3:28:40Speaker 03

  No, I mean, how can you say, how can you say anything after that? I mean, it's a brilliant idea.

• 3:28:44Griffin Newman?

  I'm also gonna force you to plug Fighting in the War Room because your co-hosts always get mad when you don't do that.

• 3:28:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I guess if you want to listen to it, you can. I think it's entire audience that listens to your show is already well aware.

• 3:28:56Speaker 04

  100 best podcasts ever.

• 3:29:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure. Um, yeah, you can find me on the internet and my name and the IndieWire reviewing movies. By the time this comes out, I'll already been to Canon back. And life will go on.

• 3:29:12David Sims?

  Excited for Ken?

• 3:29:14Speaker 03

  Am I excited for Ken? Yeah. I mean, if you're not excited for Ken, what are you doing in this line of work, I suppose?

• 3:29:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm excited to hear if the Scorsese episode I nominated myself for, if I was ghosted by abject silence from David Sims was rejection or just omission.

• 3:29:29Griffin Newman?

  I want to.

• 3:29:29Speaker 03

  We'll find out.

• 3:29:29Griffin Newman?

  I just want to remind you that the episode you threw your hat in the ring for is basically a calendar year away because Scorsese is so long.

• 3:29:36Speaker 03

  That's what I figured. I didn't feel like it was gonna be stepping on any toes.

• 3:29:39Griffin Newman?

  We're just not making decisions about those.

• 3:29:40David Sims?

  Right. We're trying to keep things.

• 3:29:41Griffin Newman?

  We're not giving you the silent treatment as much as it, here, we'll say it on mic. Your interest is noted.

• 3:29:48David Sims?

  I don't even remember.

• 3:29:50Griffin Newman?

  I'll say it off mic.

• 3:29:51David Sims?

  Fine, great. Okay, let's be done. As always, our friend Wally.

• 3:29:55Griffin Newman?

  Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for John Carter over on our Patreon. We're finishing up Robocop.

• 3:30:04Speaker 03

  Who you guys got for John Carter?

• 3:30:06Griffin Newman?

  The great Matt Singer.

• 3:30:07Speaker 04

  I'm looking now.

• 3:30:08David Sims?

  Yeah, we're, we're, we're still in Robocop mode. I think it's Robocop 3 is next. Yeah. So we got plenty of Robocops to go.

• 3:30:14Griffin Newman?

  If you enjoyed the rabbit talk and you want more rabbit talk, then go over and listen to us talk about rubber ninjas fighting Robocop. And as always.

• 3:30:25Griffin Newman?

  Eve's a babe.

• 3:30:31Speaker 03

  Say your name.

• 3:30:32Speaker 05

  Asa.

• 3:30:33Speaker 03

  Good name. Asa, who is your favorite character on Big City Greens?

• 3:30:38Speaker 05

  Cricket.

• 3:30:39Speaker 03

  What do you like about Cricket?

• 3:30:40Speaker 05

  Well, he's a rockstar, more like me, and he's about the same years old as me. But and I'm the big brother, but he's a little brother. It's kind of weird. He's kind of six.

• 3:30:51Speaker 03

  What would you say if somebody asked you what Big City Greens is about?

• 3:30:55Speaker 05

  Well, it's about.

• 3:30:59Speaker 03

  It's about 22 minutes long.

• 3:31:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's about 22 minutes long.

• 3:31:03Speaker 03

  What's the show about? What happens? The family moves from the country?

• 3:31:06Speaker 05

  The family moves like from the country to a big to a big city. And they get all crying, all cry when they don't want to go. But before, they think that they don't want to, they think that's going to be like a creepy mansion. Like across the door, but it but then Bill said like that that were moved that were leaving the country and moving to big city.

• 3:31:30Speaker 03

  Hmm, and?

• 3:31:32Speaker 05

  And they cry and they like cry a lot.

• 3:31:33Speaker 03

  And why is Chip Whistler so mean to them?

• 3:31:36Speaker 05

  Well, when they first went to big city, Cricket like, um, the chip told, um, Cricket something. And then and then Cricket kicked him in the legs and then it all began.

• 3:31:51Speaker 03

  And last question, what do you think of the movie Wally?

• 3:31:59Speaker 05

  What does that have to do?

• 3:32:00Speaker 03

  It's unrelated. What do you think about Wally? You used to love Wally. We watched it every day for like six months.

• 3:32:06Speaker 05

  Nope, morning, boo.

• 3:32:09Speaker 03

  Okay, say goodbye.

• 3:32:11Speaker 05

  No.

• 3:32:12Speaker 04

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardis Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to Blank Check Pod dot com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 3:32:57Speaker 04

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.

• 3:33:07David Sims?

  And Wally is kind of a vehicle.

• 3:33:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:33:10David Sims?

  If you think about that.

• 3:33:11Griffin Newman?

  Wally's kind of got some main character syndrome with regards to this movie.

• 3:33:15David Sims?

  He does, he does.

• 3:33:16Speaker 04

  He's also kind of a great friend.

• 3:33:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:33:18Speaker 04

  Well, save this for the.

• 3:33:20David Sims?

  That's the kind of observation that must be recorded at all times.

• 3:33:25Griffin Newman?

  Okay, David, I'm gonna send you a thing in a second.

• 3:33:28Speaker 03

  Did you guys record Finding Nemo already?

• 3:33:30Griffin Newman?

  We did.

• 3:33:31David Sims?

  We did that one.

• 3:33:32Speaker 03

  Good movie.

• 3:33:35David Sims?

  Very good.

• 3:33:36Griffin Newman?

  Okay, David?

• 3:33:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. I assume you don't mean me.

• 3:33:40David Sims?

  Yeah, sorry.

• 3:33:41Griffin Newman?

  Ben, we ready?

• 3:33:43Speaker 04

  We are.