'One Night Only' and the 21st Century Rom-Com Canon

On today’s show, Amanda is joined by her Jam Session co-host and romantic comedy expert Juliet Litman to discuss a movie referenced as "The Purge, but for sex,” otherwise known as ‘One Night Only,’ starring Callum Turner and Monica Barbaro. They break down why it’s an incredibly charming movie that almost works, mainly because it has all of the essential “rom-com” tropes nailed down, but has an insurmountable premise. Later, they theorize why romantic comedies have been dying as a genre and form their legally binding 21st century romantic comedy canon. (0:00) Intro (0:49) Juliet Litman joins the show! (2:45) Movie news (12:38) ‘One Night Only’ (55:45) Why are romantic comedies dying? (1:07:02) Our definition of a romantic comedy (1:15:36) The 21st Century Rom-Com Canon Host: Amanda Dobbins Guest: Juliet Litman Producer: Jack Sanders Production Support: Sarah Reddy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about what happens when Sean goes on vacation.

• 0:26Amanda Dobbins?

  That's right, the latter vice lord is out of office and that means I'm joined by my friend, jam session co-host and generational romantic comedy expert Juliette Littman to discuss One Night Only, the newest Will Gluck entry in the genre. We'll also build the 21st century rom-com canon, which will be perfect and make no one angry. All of that, right after this.

• 0:48Speaker 01

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• 1:13Speaker 02

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• 1:25Speaker 03

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• 2:12Speaker 03

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• 2:19Speaker 04

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• 2:50Amanda Dobbins?

  It's Juliette Littman!

• 2:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, I'm putting my prop down now. That is, that's a very light One Night Only joke, but also I just thought of it while I was falling asleep the other night and it made me laugh and I wanted to amuse myself.

• 3:07Speaker 05

  It makes me think of the viral videos of people covering Natasha Beddingfield. Have you seen that? With all these like moms in the kitchen with their various kitchen supplies and toilet paper and brooms?

• 3:20Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I didn't know about that.

• 3:21Speaker 05

  Oh wow. Oh my gosh, Amanda.

• 3:23Amanda Dobbins?

  This is a good opener. It's Juliette, welcome to The Big Picture, by the way.

• 3:28Speaker 05

  Thanks.

• 3:28Amanda Dobbins?

  This is different internets and different cultural references coming together on The Big Picture and I doubt that Sean Fennessey knows who Natasha Beddingfield is, much less about those videos. She, of course, sang the title song to the Hills, Unwritten.

• 3:45Speaker 05

  Unwritten. And in these videos, people aren't like covering that song.

• 3:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 3:50Speaker 05

  Covering used loosely. They're playing that song and dancing along in their kitchens.

• 3:54Amanda Dobbins?

  So this is the level that The Big Picture is going to be on today and I almost just called this podcast Jam Session because that's what it is, but we are going to talk about movies. It is a happy fate of scheduling that Sean is away and you, Juliette, are here for the romantic comedy event of the summer.

• 4:15Speaker 05

  Agreed. I just want to say I'm very nervous. I just feel like The Big Picture, our audience, has high expectations and demands a lot, so I hope I can deliver. I'll do the best that I can. You know, I respect you, I respect Sean, I respect your listeners, so I'm here to come to your level.

• 4:31Amanda Dobbins?

  And you respect romantic comedies, so we're going to talk about One Night Only, we're going to talk about the last 25 years in romantic comedies, which I think is going to be a fraught but exciting conversation. And there's no one else I'd rather have it with, so I'm very glad you're here. I want to do some quick news because we haven't recorded in a week and I'll just, I'll talk at you on the news and you want to weigh in, great. You don't, you don't have to. Most of the news, we'll keep it quick because most of the news is about how people who are not us have made a lot of money and that's great, but it's not coming to The Big Picture. So Spider-Man, brand new day. Have you seen it, Juliette?

• 5:11Speaker 05

  I have not. I really have always wanted to be involved in these movies and it's just never taken for me, I'm just going to be honest. But I'm really happy for everyone involved because I know that they're seeing a lot of success.

• 5:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Everyone else in America seemingly has seen it. It made 360 million domestic dollars in its first weekend, which is a lot, and in fact breaks the Avengers in-game opening weekend record, though, you know, you figure in for inflation, whatever. It's a lot of money, it's doing very well. Currently, as of this recording, 1.1 billion dollars worldwide.

• 5:44Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 5:45Amanda Dobbins?

  One of the narratives was like, can it cross two? And, you know, we don't know, but outlook good, as the eight ball would say. And the only thing I want to add to this is that on our last Spider-Man episode, Sean asked me, gave me an over/under on the number of movies that Tom Holland would play in Spider, play Spider-Man in going forward. And his over/under was 2.5 and I said under because I think two. And that was a mistake and I should have said more because I wasn't thinking about the fact that he could also then like pass the Spidey torch to the next Spider-Man but then show up as a mentor. And I think he'll be doing that,

• 6:29Amanda Dobbins?

  at least for a very long time, because he is too bankable.

• 6:33Speaker 05

  I will say, I have seen the Spider-verse movies, the animated ones.

• 6:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 6:37Speaker 05

  I love them. I think they're like so beautiful and great New York movies. And that sounds very similar to the Spider-verse movies with the mentorship and the multiple Spideys. So it sounds like a good plan to me.

• 6:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. I, everyone in Spider-Man land is doing very well and I congratulate them. And I congratulate everyone who loved the movie. I liked it.

• 6:56Speaker 05

  I just did a quick Google to see if either Zendaya or Tom Holland were Leos. They're not, but congrats to them on enjoying the abundance of the Emerald Year.

• 7:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. Less abundance or abundance on pause. We haven't been talking too much about the Paramount Warner Brothers merger acquisition because it is on pause and we are also not business people. It, the trial was recently set. There was a deal made to delay it, to delay the trial, the deal between Paramount and the state attorneys. And the trial date was set for March 2027, so this is ongoing. Meanwhile, David Ellison took to the op-ed pages of the New York Times to kind of restate his case, seemingly like reframe the narrative. There was a lot about like, I've, I'm taking this back for myself. A lot

• 7:46Amanda Dobbins?

  more, I love movies, you know, he cites Top Gun Maverick because a broken clock is right once a day in Europe. And it's, you know, it is what it is. Nothing, no real news, except that nothing will move forward until March 2027. I, do you, do you follow this at all?

• 8:06Speaker 05

  I follow it through Matt Bellany's newsletter, almost exclusively. Like, I don't really read news stories about them. I read the headlines, essentially. My question for you is, what if Europe blocks it, but the US allows it? What happens?

• 8:21Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know, honestly, because once again, I'm not Matt Bellany or one of these experts. I do believe that Europe passed something more favorable to it recently.

• 8:34Speaker 05

  They indicated.

• 8:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. So I think somehow that that is not the front concern. Seemingly with the...

• 8:43Amanda Dobbins?

  The judge who made a ruling that actually did, the language seemed to suggest that she bought the state's attorney's argument that this would be like a market monopoly against movie theaters.

• 8:56Speaker 05

  Right.

• 8:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is why David Ellison is again stating in his op ed, like, I will release X many movies and, you know, op eds are not legally or financially binding. So sure, that's nice. So I think right now this trial, as I read it and from all the business journalists who cover it, the trial and the timing is, the American trial is the issue for Paramount right now.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  Got you. Okay.

• 9:24Amanda Dobbins?

  But again, yeah, I don't know. I'm not, again, I'm, I'm not a legal party to any of this. That's a thing that is happening. Okay. More exciting news. Brittany Snow joins Sydney Sweeney in Lionsgate's The Housemaid sequel. Did you see The Housemaid?

• 9:42Speaker 05

  No, I did not.

• 9:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Really fun time at the movies. Can't say it was great. Brittany's, but that's okay. Great and fun. Don't have to coexist and maybe we'll talk about that more.

• 9:53Speaker 05

  Sure. I, I did consume a lot of the press tour.

• 9:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 9:56Speaker 05

  I, Amanda Seyfried is like a big part of my online life, I would say, in part because I watch videos of her preparing for the 2012 Oscars frequently. As I watch the video of the Les Mis cast singing their number together before they actually performed it. And of course she's in it. So drinking tea, looking beautiful. In general, also she, I don't know, this probably made it to you, it's a movie. They released some set photos from Octet with the next film from Lin-Manuel Miranda, which he is directing. And she is in it among a lot of other Broadway stars and like Gaten Materazzo and Jonathan Groff,

• 10:36Speaker 05

  Philippa Sue, et cetera. Charlie Ralph is in it. It's, it's exciting when Lin-Manuel Miranda takes his, his talents public. He's always working on so many things. In this photo, she like shined brighter than all these other very bright stars. And I just think that she has a certain it factor that called out to me. And so I follow her very closely ever since Big Love.

• 11:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I would assume that you can now watch The Housemaid in the comfort of your own home?

• 11:06Speaker 05

  Yes. My Roku television has advertised that to me.

• 11:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I, I think it's a very fun time at the movies. I, The Housemaid 2 is on my radar because I enjoyed The Housemaid 1 and also because Kirsten Dunst was previously announced as a cast member. And also, so Paul Anthony Kelly, AKA JFK Jr.

• 11:26Speaker 05

  J.J. John John, excuse me.

• 11:27Amanda Dobbins?

  John John from American Love Story, Carolyn Bisette Kennedy and JFK Jr. I think I got that title correct. You know, the one. He will, I assume, be playing the husband. He has joined this film. And I think that's the correct use of him. I think most people know what they're doing. So I'm looking forward to this.

• 11:47Speaker 05

  I've never seen anything that Brittany Snow didn't make better. Like, I, I think she's great. Why don't we have more of her? Did you watch her TV show on Netflix?

• 11:54Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, Juliette, I did not because I don't watch TV. This is a film podcast. Would you like to tell us briefly? No, it's fine. Go ahead.

• 12:00Speaker 05

  I know. I, I just, she's charming. She's always charming. Um, yeah, she also was like, a really weird thing happened where like, you know, she was like a teen star. And then she was in the Pitch Perfect movies. Like, she's had this very steady, successful career. She had, her first husband went on a Netflix reality show and was like incredibly inappropriate with one of his co-stars. Like, just really crossing the line of flirting and touching while, while married to a very famous person, Brittany Snow. They've since gotten divorced and they're both now remarried. But this is like, all happened within the last four to five years. And I, I feel like she's been freed and like, her career is soaring once again, now that she's no longer dating to the, dating this or married to this guy from Netflix.

• 12:44Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I think this is great casting for The Housemaid 2. And I look forward to it. Okay. Last thing that I want to mention to you. So Netflix dated and scheduled its theatrical release for La Bola Negra, which is one of its seeming Oscar hopefuls. La Bola Negra debuted at Cannes, but at the end of Cannes, so I didn't get to see it. That's okay. I will. And then was acquired by Netflix. It's going to be released October 16th in theaters, December 2nd on streaming, which many people are trumpeting as kind of like Netflix's largest or longest ever theatrical release window. I personally don't think that this means that Netflix is completely reversing course on its theatrical strategy. I just,

• 13:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I do think it means that it believes in La Bola Negra for the Oscars. And it's, The La Bola Negra is a Spanish, like, historical epic directed by Los Javies. And it is one of the movies that Sean, like, immediately texted me after walking out of it saying, like, wow, I was very moved by it, which is, you know, that immediate response is a very good sign. So I'm excited to see it. And I'm excited that Netflix seems to think that this has some, has some Oscar heat. The, the theater thing, guys, you know, it's a long road.

• 14:03Speaker 05

  Sure. I mean, they've owned theaters for a long time. So I don't, it doesn't seem like it's like a big indicator of anything. I understand, like, putting their, it, I think your point about suggesting they believe in it. Yeah, I get that. But like, the, the theater thing seems

• 14:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 14:15Speaker 05

  from all indicators, not like a huge part of the strategy.

• 14:18Amanda Dobbins?

  And also, we've been talking a lot about this. The, the fall theatrical release schedule is a little strange. And Thanksgiving is a little, if things keep moving around, things keep getting delayed, Thanksgiving is still a little bit empty. So maybe it's just a reflection of, of what's available. Anyway, we'll see. I'm excited to see it. Let's talk about a film that is in theaters.

• 14:42Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 14:42Amanda Dobbins?

  That we have both seen.

• 14:44Speaker 05

  We sure have.

• 14:45Amanda Dobbins?

  It's called One Night Only. I'm gonna do the, I'm gonna give the details.

• 14:50Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 14:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Which may surprise some people because I have had this experience while talking to friends and many people who have seen the trailer and are still surprised to learn the premise of this film. So, anyway, this is directed by Will Gluck, who directed Easy A, Anyone But You, Friends with Benefits, also some Peter Rabbit movies. The script is by Travis Braun and it was on the blacklist in 2024. And it stars Monica Barbaro, Callum Turner, Maya Hawke, Molly Ringwald, LeVar Burton, King Princess, Michelle Hurd, Julia Fox, and more. The story is, two strangers, this is the log line, two strangers try to

• 15:32Amanda Dobbins?

  find love on the one night of the year when premarital sex is legal. Juliette Lippman, what did you think?

• 15:43Speaker 05

  Um, I had a good time.

• 15:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 15:44Speaker 05

  I liked it. I had a good time. I, I thought it was really clever in some ways. It was flawed in many others.

• 15:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 05

  But the feeling and the movie stars were enough for me. And it was an appropriate length at one hour and like 46 minutes. And so that was fun. It comes out strong with some good jokes, particularly using Monica Barbaro's talents. And I had a good time. I mean, certainly not like, you know, a Nora Ephron movie or a Nancy Meyers movie or, you know, even some of my favorite recent Netflix movies. But I really like enjoyed myself.

• 16:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, we're gonna get into that. I, I mostly disagree with you. I thought that this was an incredibly charming movie that almost works. It almost works. And the reason that I can't give it like the full pass is because it is just an insurmountable premise. And I, I do not think that the movie surmounts it. I don't know that a movie could, but this one tries to have it both ways and five other ways. And so you're in this complicated situation where you're in a sex comedy without any sex. You're in a romantic comedy on the, as I'm

• 17:03Amanda Dobbins?

  quoting the film and the trailer here, the least romantic night of the year. And you are also in a film where the federal government has banned premarital sex and embedded bio trackers in every single person. So I just, you can't get past it.

• 17:23Speaker 05

  I had less of a problem with that because I just was like, kind of happy to go along with that, I guess. I'm like, was, I was willing to be led

• 17:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 05

  and down a dark path. But I felt the seams of the movie were just very apparent. I noticed edits a few times. And it didn't feel like it had like the, the utmost craft to it. Maybe that's because there were so many challenges in streamlining the plot, which is like, to really explain everything would take a long time.

• 17:51Amanda Dobbins?

  And they don't. I have, so I have notes on the premise. And then if you're accepting the premise, I also have other notes that I'd like to go through.

• 17:59Speaker 05

  Okay. I'd love to hear them.

• 18:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I, I agree with you. I mean, you said that you were willing to be led down a dark path. And this movie strenuously avoids the dark path. It is, it makes kind of elliptical, or not elliptical. It, it has references to what they call the mandate, which is the law that's been passed where you can't have premarital sex. And they have a talking head. They, you know, kind of like a news report with a fake congressman or a fake elected representative who's supposed to be very conservative and is kind of a blowhard explaining why they did it. But, you know, not with any specific terms. They have, you know, kind

• 18:41Amanda Dobbins?

  of like repeal signs and, and decorations throughout the set and throughout the movie to kind of, backgrounds suggest that there is some sort of acknowledgement and like, quote unquote, resistance. They are all in the resist font, by the way, you know, or the multiple resist fonts. There is, what I thought was the most forced part of, like, the, the premise and trying to work through the premise was a conversation that Monica Barbaro's character has with Michelle Hurd, the great actress, Michelle Hurd, who is an NYPD officer, who is forced, who, who

• 19:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Monica Bavaro's character winds up in the hotel, in the, she winds up in the police station and asks her, you know, why do you do this? Why are you being an enforcer of it, of this thing that is so repressive? And it felt so inserted into the text and so half-hearted attempt to kind of acknowledge larger socio-political discomfort in a movie that's otherwise not trying to do that, that in my experience, it draws it more to the, to the unreality or the kind of having it both ways of this movie.

• 19:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it pulls you out of it when you're like then forced to think about the like, like all of the plot strands, but also like the morality of it. It's also just like unfun.

• 20:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I mean, the bio trackers do play a plot point and also kind of set up the final reveal of the movie. But, you know, so they're there and I assume they're animated, but they're on everyone's wrist. And you're just talking a lot about the government, government monitoring your sex life via something that's embedded in your body. And they, I guess they do the best they can, but you are reminded of it. It does also feel very noted to me as like that there were, the Michelle Hurd conversation is one. There's another one where there's a gay roommate who says, has like one throwaway line about how like, we've been skirting straight people laws for years, you know, which is to maybe acknowledge the

• 20:53Amanda Dobbins?

  fact that you do primarily see heterosexual couples like getting it on. You know, it like, you feel all the hands in the kitchen trying to solve this problem.

• 21:03Speaker 05

  It also feels like if they're trying to restrict sex, wouldn't they also try to restrict like, you know, different sexualities? It doesn't track that you could be like openly and happily gay, while also like, you know, straight people can only have sex on this one night of the year. Like, why would they stop there? And also, the main problem with the like, one night a year is there's no rationale for it, except for like, there was that congressman you referenced, I think at some points, like, you know, like reinforcing the importance of like, the family unit. But then, the, you know, non-straight person is a woman who's watching a kid that night. And sort of like, the only, one of the two family units we're like introduced to is like two friends and a random kid. So it doesn't

• 21:48Speaker 05

  really, it doesn't track with the mandate itself.

• 21:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. And it does feel like the, the original idea for this movie was like, what if it was The Purge but sex, which is a really funny elevator pitch. But The Purge is a gruesome like horror movie. And so you can tell that the more you have to think about it and live in the world, the more this, this seems come apart, as you said, just because there are just many questions. You, you had a segue to all of the, the, the notes within the premise that I wanted to make. So I, here's, here are the questions I want to ask you about, because this is the problem. The premise itself isn't sold. They, or you

• 22:37Amanda Dobbins?

  just have too many questions about like, okay, why are you outlawing sex for, you know, except for one night a year, or premarital sex for one night a year? And what does that say about the world at large? But also, power reinforcing that. So the number one question I had is why doesn't everyone just get married immediately?

• 22:55Speaker 05

  Yeah. And like, are there rules against divorce? Are you limited on the number of divorces you can have?

• 23:00Amanda Dobbins?

  They don't mention that. They don't get into if, to cheating and whether you can cheat if you're married, which seems like a very easy way to circumnavigate this. There is a rule, and this is a good rule, that you have to wear a condom. So there's a safe sex aspect of that. And that also forms, you know, plot because, plot point, because there's a run on condoms on the one night a year, and you gotta make sure you have a condom.

• 23:27Speaker 05

  Can we just pause on the condom thing for one second? I couldn't help but think of the movie The Trojan War. The entire time I was watching The Condom Odyssey with Will Friedell and Jennifer Love Hewitt, which was a very formative movie for me. And I was like, is this intentional? Am I supposed to be thinking of Will Friedell looking for a condom as like, the whole movie? Because that was like, a movie I saw in the 90s. I feel like it was like, wow, the guy from Boy Meets World is now searching for a condom. And I just couldn't, couldn't believe that that was something they were trying to like, call upon. But if you also watched that movie many times as a young person, then you probably were thinking of it too.

• 24:09Amanda Dobbins?

  So The Trojan, Trojan War, the movie, not to be confused with The Odyssey or Troy, is a 1997 teen comedy starring, as you noted, Will Friedell, Jennifer Love Hewitt. And according to Wikipedia here, made only $309 in ticket sales because it played at two movie theaters in the United States. So I think, once, like, flip side, everyone else in the world has seen Spider-Man: Brand New Day, and you have seen Trojan War.

• 24:34Speaker 05

  I watched a lot of movies in the 90s. That's all I can say. I didn't know this was an obscure movie. I assumed everyone had seen it.

• 24:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I have not seen it. But I, now we have some context for it. Do they?

• 24:46Speaker 05

  This is the plot. This is the plot of the movie is that he meets Jennifer Love Hewitt, and they want to have sex, and he can't find a condom. And he's going to all these different stores to get a condom, and he can't find one.

• 24:55Amanda Dobbins?

  And then like, he meets a cyclops and he meets the sirens? Yeah, okay.

• 25:00Speaker 05

  There's like an Odyssey like tale to it.

• 25:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Does anyone get turned into a pig?

• 25:03Speaker 05

  No, not that I recall. I also don't really remember the ending, but I don't think they ever have sex in the movie because it was like, the 90s. And yeah, I thought of it the whole time.

• 25:13Amanda Dobbins?

  We'll come back to not having sex. Speaking of condoms, so there's, we get no specifications on the biometric, like, measure thing. So I don't know how you can tell if it's, if, if a condom is used or not. So I don't know how that's enforced.

• 25:30Speaker 05

  It's a weird thought experiment that the movie begs you to partake in. Like, you have to think about, how would a biometric tracker that's embedded into your wrist be able to sense if you, a woman, were being penetrated with a condom on, or if you, a man, are wearing one? Like, what is the science there? And I regret having to ask this question publicly on a podcast.

• 25:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, sure. But let's keep going. So is masturbation allowed? Or like, handjobs allowed? They do at one point in the NYPD office show like, a poster, a humorously illustrated poster of like, what's allowed and what's not allowed. And seems pretty clear, like, all forms of oral sex are banned. They're on the strikeout poster. I at least saw a couple of them. But nothing about handjobs. So I, I just, these are gray areas. It does seem like, and no, absolutely no energy is devoted to the people trying to get around

• 26:32Amanda Dobbins?

  these areas, these, you know, in creative or humorous ways, much less the realities of what it would mean. The final thing that I would say is that what, everyone at 7:00 PM is not already ready to go in this universe. Like, at 7:00 PM, people are like, out in public and like, throwing parties and celebrating. And I just don't understand why you wouldn't be like, about to start the 100-meter dash, you know?

• 27:03Speaker 05

  Totally. Also, a part of the original conceit, conceit is that Callan Turner is supposed to be proposing to his girlfriend on this night. Why would you propose on the one night a year you could have sex? Like, and also, the movie says it's not romantic. So the way that people were using their time on this evening was questionable.

• 27:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I mean, it sets up the fact that Callan Turner also doesn't really understand what's going on. You know, he's a lost soul. He's not of, of this time. And that's why, the other most ridiculous thing that happens in this movie, and his name is Owen, by the way, it's Owen and Ally, is that within 15 minutes of the movie starting, and before the clock hits seven, and everyone's allowed to have sex for the next 12 hours, he is not quite dumped by his girlfriend, Maya Hawke, who he was going to propose to, because she wants to have sex with someone else other than him.

• 28:03Speaker 05

  In their building.

• 28:05Amanda Dobbins?

  In their building, on the one night a year when sex is allowed.

• 28:08Speaker 05

  Right.

• 28:09Amanda Dobbins?

  This is unbelievable for a number of reasons, including that the person sitting opposite her is Callan Turner.

• 28:18Speaker 05

  Well, we did see a picture of the other person. I don't want to ruin it for everybody, but it is someone very handsome.

• 28:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 28:23Speaker 05

  You might be familiar with. You don't, it's a, it's a, it's a good gag reveal later on.

• 28:27Amanda Dobbins?

  There are lots of good jokes. Okay. I do want to talk about Callum Turner, but let's talk about the flip side of everything that we just said, the premise is not believable and draws attention to your fact. Well, of course it's not believable, but they just can't sell it. They try really hard. I think they, you know, make a good effort. It doesn't quite land. Everything else is pretty charming and everything else is well made. This is, I had a really, really great time. And we were talking about this on the Spider-Man episode of that experience when you go to a movie and you're like, wow, I had the best time in the world. And then the further you get from it, the more you remember the holes or the things that didn't quite add up. And because the film was so directed to your particular pleasure centers, it really lands. And that was the case for me. I walked out

• 29:11Amanda Dobbins?

  of this like, I, this is the most charming, wonderful thing I've, I've ever seen in some time. And it hits a lot of rom com things, right? In my opinion, I think that Callum Turner and Monica Bavaro are excellent.

• 29:26Speaker 05

  Agreed.

• 29:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I have some notes on certain aspects of what's going on with Callum Turner, but we'll get to it. The jokes are really funny.

• 29:34Speaker 05

  There was a couple of times where I just like really laughed out loud. There was one scene where I was like, I don't know what's really going on here, but I find it absolutely hilarious. And I was like, just dying in my seat. I really enjoyed it. There's one scene in particular, I should say.

• 29:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, and it's filmed actually in New York City and in real places.

• 29:53Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 29:53Amanda Dobbins?

  And it has actually good soundtrack for once, which is unlike most other romantic comedies, which are like the leftovers of, you know, female centered like pop light that they couldn't place anywhere else. So they placed it in a romantic comedy.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  Well, to that point, the, the, the movie, basically the second scene introduces Ally, Monica Barrow at her job where she sings for pharmaceutical commercials. She sings like well-known pop songs that have been rewritten for these commercials.

• 30:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 05

  And it's a version of Brave by Sara Bareilles. And it's really funny. It's really, really well done.

• 30:32Amanda Dobbins?

  And they do.

• 30:33Speaker 05

  And she sounds great.

• 30:34Amanda Dobbins?

  And they introduce it as here is the bad song from a romantic comedy that is playing and it's a little cheesy. And, you know, like Brave is, it's fantastic that, um, but in this context, you're like, oh no, they weren't even invented. They didn't even go get like a new song. And when it turns, uh, it's really like, I laughed.

• 30:57Speaker 05

  Me too.

• 30:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  I was like, oh, that's really smart. And it's a clever, it's a clever way of like inverting a well-known trope.

• 31:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 31:04Speaker 05

  And a well-known song.

• 31:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Um, so it's knowing, and then the movie knows what it's doing, uh, like on almost every front. It is, it's very aware of the genre, a very aware of what, um, comes before it and is kind of spending the time and the money to, to try to make everything work. So I, I'm with you. I had a really, really good time.

• 31:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. And as I was watching, this is both an indictment and like a credit to the movie. I was thinking throughout the movie of like the different pieces where I was like trying to guess what I thought the, the filmmakers were referencing. I was like, yeah, well, of course I was thinking of, you know, Jennifer Love Hewitt.

• 31:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 31:44Speaker 05

  Primarily, but I, I thought about her again, because one of the, another song included in the movie is Only You by Yazoo, which is essential to Can't Hardly Wait and the train station scene. And so I was like, thinking throughout, like, are they thinking of this from this movie that I love? Like, I felt like I was speaking the same language as the creators and particularly the writer. Um, but I wasn't, but at the same time I was like, it's probably a bad sign that I'm thinking so much about all the reference points and not just like losing myself in the movie. But I think as like a lover of romantic comedies in this day and age, there are that really good ones are so few, few and far between. And I wouldn't say this is a really good one, but just like wanting to celebrate the genre with other people who love it as much as you do, I think is part of being a fan

• 32:28Speaker 05

  at this point. And so I don't know if seeing a movie like that, you could avoid that experience anymore.

• 32:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I mean, what you just described are Easter eggs and they're Easter eggs, not for a specific superhero movie, but instead for this genre that we know and love and are very protective of and are going to try to build a, not quite a hall of fame, but a, an essential list for later in this episode with very strict rules because we, we believe in this stuff. So I, like, I think you're right. And I think some of it is that it is very hard in this day and age to make a brand new romantic comedy that stands on its own without any of the references because it, at this point, much like Spider-Man, it's burdened by all of our expectations and all of the,

• 33:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Like the, not the fan's service, but the fan acknowledgement it has to do.

• 33:21Speaker 05

  Right. Yeah. I mean, we're a generation like just so tapped into Nancy Meyers and Nora Ephron, as mentioned before. It's like their presence over the genre is so, so heavy that you can't not think about them whenever like a rom com is just like as an idea, as mentioned.

• 33:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Let's talk about Callum Turner.

• 33:38Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 33:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I'm on the record on this. What did you think?

• 33:43Speaker 05

  I liked spending time with him.

• 33:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 33:44Speaker 05

  I felt the movie worked in part because he's so handsome and you're happy to spend so much time with him. Um, I didn't think he was like so convincing as a lead, but I understand why he's a, like a working, successful actor. And it's because he's so handsome and you would just like want to be around his smile.

• 34:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought the American accent was very tough and verged into kind of fake mobster impression from time to time.

• 34:12Speaker 05

  I felt like he was sort of, um, his own version of like Danny Zuko in Grease, but like pizza man in New York.

• 34:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I, it's, and I did spend some time in the movie thinking, okay, so why couldn't he just be British? And I guess that that brings in like some, you know, sort of the geopolitical arrangements and you'd have to establish that like anyone with a green card has a, you know, has to have a tracker or something. And then you're just, you're, you're in hell once again. So easier just to give an American an accent, but we're not there yet.

• 34:46Speaker 05

  Totally. Yeah, we're not there. Can I ask you a question before we go any further? Cause it's like, it looms over this whole movie for me. I watch everything through like my New York goggles, like being obsessed with the city in which I was born and continue to live. Like, I think the character doesn't work if he's not like some kind of New Yorker. Like, because you would have to change so many fundamental things that we know about this character.

• 35:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Which are.

• 35:08Speaker 05

  So I don't know. That's just my, my bias, but I, I think to your answer your question, why couldn't he just be British? Well, then he couldn't own a pizza shop. If he doesn't own a pizza shop, like who is this guy?

• 35:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Well, who is this guy who owns a pizza shop to you? I'd love to know what you think was essentially New York about this character. Who is the most handsome man you've ever seen who gets dumped by Maya Hawke 20 minutes before they're allowed to have sex at an Omakase restaurant? I mean, there is a, there's a very funny joke within the joke, within the movie that's meta and it features two well-known actors in cameos being like, why is he alone? This guy's so handsome. Like, what is it?

• 35:49Speaker 05

  Great question.

• 35:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Even the movie knows, and I, that was one where the, the movie's trying to make things fit together in a way that was amusing to me. But all I know about him is that he makes pizza that looks quite good and that

• 36:03Speaker 05

  Quite good.

• 36:03Amanda Dobbins?

  incredibly handsome.

• 36:05Speaker 05

  Incredibly handsome. His mom is Molly Ringwald.

• 36:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 05

  He's an avid subway rider, never getting into a taxi, that guy. Um, and he knows his neighbors. I don't think that Callum Turner in this role as Owen screamed New York, but I felt that the writing was so invested in the city of New York as a character.

• 36:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 36:26Speaker 05

  Whether that succeeded, we can, we can discuss.

• 36:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 05

  But even the breakup scene is like, you know, like delivered through this vessel of like, I live in a New York city building and I'm curious about my neighbor. And like, I see him in the elevator. You know what I mean?

• 36:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 36:41Speaker 05

  So it felt very present to me, but I'm also obsessed with New York. So I don't know if that's my, my, my personal bias.

• 36:48Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I, I accept it. I'm not sure I sat there thinking this is the most American man that I've ever seen in my entire life.

• 36:56Speaker 05

  Sure. Well, I don't think it worked with Callum Turner. I think of the script though, like also with the red lighthouse and stuff. Like, have you ever been there?

• 37:02Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I haven't.

• 37:04Speaker 05

  Well, that's because you're

• 37:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 37:05Speaker 05

  Living in LA.

• 37:06Amanda Dobbins?

  I live in Los Angeles and I'm not, I'm not a true Upper West Side New Yorker like you. Um, the other thing I wanted to mention about Callum Turner was the running because there is a tremendous amount of running in this movie, which, you know, it's structured, it's clever. It is right there in the title. It's one night only. It's not even a, it's not even a 24 hour movie. It's maybe like an 18 hour movie, maybe 13, though.

• 37:28Speaker 05

  I think it's less. Yeah.

• 37:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I, though like the, the, the time and geography constraints are not realistic, but that's okay. So it's a 13 hour movie and he's got to get a lot of places and have a lot of adventures. So he is running through the streets of New York. And every time I, he ran, I thought to myself, we got to work on this run if we want to lock down James Bond. It was not a Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible level run. The ergonomics are

• 37:56Speaker 05

  I was just gonna say, he lacks the swiftness that we are familiar with from Tom Cruise.

• 38:00Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not tucked in, you know? We haven't gone to a running coach yet. And I got a little nervous for him in that moment.

• 38:08Speaker 05

  How much of it is his neck? He's got a thick neck. He's got a real, he's a real football player type body.

• 38:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. But to me, it was more about the arms and the arms were going out almost like chicken dance as much as they were. And so it was his forward motion. Like I said, the ergonomics were not very efficient. So he's almost putting his elbows in like a circle situation. And he's not totally veering in a straight line. He's not tucked in, you know? He's would not win the 100 meter dash.

• 38:36Speaker 05

  No.

• 38:36Amanda Dobbins?

  He's a little all over the place. And listen, I look like a total goofball when I run. It's not a problem. And also maybe the new James Bond is not going to run, you know? Maybe, maybe he's not that kind of action star. But I did have that moment sitting there where I thought to myself, this is not a James Bond run. So.

• 38:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. He's, he lacks the aerodynamicness that we're hoping to find in all of our James Bonds.

• 38:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Speaker 05

  I think he can get there, but I do think he would, needs to like shed some pounds. Not because I think he needs to lose weight, but I do think he looks like he's a running back and we need him to be more of like a point guard.

• 39:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Thank you for those sports references. On the flip side, he has one of the best, we'll call it like the rom com reaction shot, the appreciative, I think I'm falling in love with this person, close up during Monica Barbaro's solo of Only You that I've ever seen. He's really, really, really good at the smile. And it just helps that he's dreamy, but they nailed those close ups. And that is a really under discussed part of a romantic comedy that he has down.

• 39:42Speaker 05

  That's a great point. He's very good at smiling, like very, very good at it.

• 39:46Amanda Dobbins?

  And it lights up his adorable little face. He is, I mean, he is an interesting one where the ears, which the script make, makes note of, make him cute as well as incredibly James Bond level handsome, which the movie knows, like the movie is using him, the movie makes jokes about how handsome he is, like he is cast because of the way that he looks. And then isn't it funny that someone this handsome doesn't have a date for the one night a year where you can have sex. Um, but I, I really, it really works. And those emotional moments he can kind of play, which I was surprised by.

• 40:23Speaker 05

  I think there's something also about him that's very non-threatening, even though he's like so hot and whatnot. He doesn't feel like an imposing presence. He doesn't feel toxic. He, you know, there's like many hijinks throughout it where like, you know, this one woman, he meets her in the park and then she ends up zipping tying his hands to the tree and she steals all his stuff. You kind of like feel bad for him and never think that like he would be the aggressor in that scene. And there's something about him that I think is also very true to particularly like rom coms of this century so far, that felt like a familiar trope that also really works.

• 41:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. He is also incredibly well matched with Monica Barbaro, who I just think is the most wonderful, uh, in the world. She, she's got it.

• 41:11Speaker 05

  That haircut. I need to know who did the hair in this movie. I was, I was envious the entire time. Her highlights looked incredible. The cut was great. It like framed her face and her shoulders so well. Oh my God, I was just staring. I loved it.

• 41:24Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, she's, she's very beautiful and very talented and she can sing, as we learned in A Complete Unknown. She says she was, she just learned to sing for A Complete Unknown. She played Joan Baez. She was nominated for an Oscar. Thought she was wonderful in that. And so they make use of her singing in a very funny way in this. And they make her just goofy enough that again, to the Callum Turner point, you don't feel threatened by her. It was, it was very early Sandra Bullock vibes to me. And it was, and this is a person who doesn't quite have it together and clearly doesn't also, she also does not

• 42:09Amanda Dobbins?

  have a date for her, you know, one night of passion a year, but she's also not a total mess. Right? She's, it's, and it's, it's a good mix because I do feel like romantic comedies in the past decade or two have kind of swung all the way from super aggressively together woman who can't find love to total mess of a woman who can't find love. And this to me was a happy-ish medium.

• 42:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, I agree with you. She's like a professional who's trying to find her way.

• 42:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. And she has friends and she's, she has standards and their, their meet cute, which sets them on their path, is that he barfs on her feet. And so, and, and she is just like, no, thank you. I don't want anything to do with you. So she has, she's not desperate. It makes sense. The standards and the, and the setup, at least as it speaks to two of them do work. And I just like watching her. I like her watching so much that I liked a climactic moment of romantic comedy that involves someone giving a live musical performance.

• 43:20Speaker 05

  I was wondering about that.

• 43:22Amanda Dobbins?

  But first of all, she can sing, you know, and so much of, and I knew that already because of A Complete Unknown. And much of my live singing allergy is the fear that someone's not going to land it, you know, and that the fear that we're all sitting there together in like a note gone wrong. And it's just, it's too vulnerable for me. But I knew she could do it. And also she sings Only You, the Yazoo song, which is just a banger.

• 43:47Speaker 05

  A great song. Yeah. It's a, it's a really good song. Also think the way they introduced the music up top as a joke is sort of, makes it easier, I would guess, for someone like you who doesn't like a musical number. Um, she has like a hang up on this guy who, what's his name? Noah? Is that his name in the movie? Ezra, excuse me. Similar names. I thought the guy who played Ezra, whose name is Charlie Gillespie, I've never seen him before. I thought he was so funny. He has like a performance that I found absolutely like mortifying, but intentionally so.

• 44:18Amanda Dobbins?

  The musician, yeah.

• 44:19Speaker 05

  Yes. I absolutely loved that scene. I was dying. I thought it was hilarious. It is weird.

• 44:25Amanda Dobbins?

  He's perfect casting because he's playing a musician that she's had a long time crush on and she like almost gets her opportunity. And the whole time you're sitting there, at this point, the sparks have flown between Callum Turner and Monica Barbaro, between Owen and Ally in such a way that you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Just have sex. So you can't cast another Callum Turner-esque person, right? It's gotta be the total opposite and someone who's willing to play into the comedy. And he does a great job.

• 44:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, he crushed it. I was dying.

• 44:58Amanda Dobbins?

  The cameos.

• 44:59Speaker 05

  Yes. Really good. So many. Impressive. I was really wondering about a lot of them.

• 45:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Because you knew about, you knew that the people were in the movie and you didn't know how they were going to be used? Or you were just like, oh?

• 45:11Speaker 05

  I was just kept being surprised to see people. And I was like, oh, why are they here? Oh, they want to do this? Like, I was just really surprised.

• 45:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Who were, who were your top cameos? Spoiler, we've spoiled a lot of this movie at this point. And this is a podcast about a movie. So.

• 45:25Speaker 05

  Yeah. Hopefully you see it. I mean, I think the, just from my own personal kaleidoscope, the double cameo of Esti Hyam and Ziwei as bouncers at a club really got me. I was like, Esti was acting now too, because Alana Hyam famously acting in PTA movies. Um, that was surprising to me. And that was probably the biggest one. I guess the one that was the most surprising to me, actually, or I guess the biggest one was probably Julia Fox, because she had like an actual role in the movie.

• 45:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 45:57Speaker 05

  Playing the person who sets off Callum Turner's punt for a condom. Um, so I guess those were the three where I was like, wow, okay.

• 46:06Amanda Dobbins?

  And the, the Julia Fox one comes early enough and is intentional enough that it signals to you like, oh, okay, they're, they're being funny. Like they, they've thought about this and they've thought about who they can have in here and they want you to chuckle and to kind of play along with the meta-ness of all of it, which I think was a smart move. LeVar Burton was probably my favorite.

• 46:29Speaker 05

  Nice. Yeah. He was, he was great. He also had an actual role in the movie.

• 46:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, exactly. Um, and you know, the Molly Ringwald and the, the throwbacks to all of the John Hughes comedies was great. Um, who else? King Princess, Nicholas Braun, who seems to show up in everything.

• 46:46Speaker 05

  Oh, Nicholas Braun was another good one.

• 46:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Well, it was funny.

• 46:50Speaker 05

  It was an eye roll once too. Like, of course he's in this movie. That makes sense.

• 46:54Amanda Dobbins?

  But he took exactly the right part. He was in it for just long enough. Uh, and then also some of the other people that Ally talks to at that party include one of Ben Marshall, who's one of the please don't destroy young men. And I was excited to recognize one of the please don't destroy young men, myself on my own.

• 47:12Speaker 05

  You watching a lot of Saturday Night Live, Amanda?

• 47:14Amanda Dobbins?

  No, but I watched enough. I was like, oh, okay. I'm not totally on the glacier yet. I can still pick up these cameos. Um, so that was great. A great use of stuff and, and a good range of ages and cultural references, which I appreciated. Do you want to do New York City? You want to, you want to talk about it?

• 47:34Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, it's just very present in the, in the movie. I would love to know Travis Braun's connection to New York. Like what, like where he lived, how long he lived there. Clearly very deeply tied to the, uh, the city. I was following the subway routes very closely, curious about going to Brooklyn Bridge Park, though I did have like a really bad date during COVID in Brooklyn Bridge Park, which felt, which felt right with what was going on with his bad date.

• 48:00Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't remember this. I hope it wasn't that bad.

• 48:03Speaker 05

  I hope, I, I think I probably just like didn't want to repeat it because it was so bad. Um, I was, but it was, you know, good humor, I suppose. Um, but the, the piece that stood out the most to me is at the pizza place, Clermont Pizza.

• 48:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 48:17Speaker 05

  The exterior shots that they show repeatedly in the movie are of the original Famous Ray's Pizza. Of course, that's the full title. I, I don't claim for it to be the original. I don't even know if it's famous, but it is famous to me. It is on 82nd and Columbus and it was the site of my sixth birthday party. So I have known it intimately for a long time. I would love to know why they selected that pizza shop because I'm pretty sure they, they shot most of the movie, the interiors on the soundstage or soundstages. But they clearly recreated it. I went back to like confirm with pictures and everything. It looks so much like it. And I don't know why of all the, you know, what it claims to be original famous rays throughout New York, this was the shop. I don't know if it was like,

• 49:02Speaker 05

  you know, a location scout who was like, this would be a really good exterior and like, we can easily rebuild it. I don't even know why they had to rebuild it. We can make it look like anything. But that pizza place that's living rent free in many people's minds now.

• 49:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I will say that the structure of that particular pizza place, while maybe foundational to you is not like, original in the sense that I thought it was a pizza place that I went to in Brooklyn Heights for a while. Just, I mean, the interior is there pizza ovens on one side and booze on the other, you know, and there's brick. And so I, I see your point, and I love the consistency.

• 49:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, the detail of it. I was just like, this is really close to the original.

• 49:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I will also say that I thought the pizza looked great.

• 49:42Speaker 05

  Did look good. It looked really good.

• 49:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, they spent, and it was traditional New York style, but also slightly, I mean, I guess it's like a famous raise or a John's or that type of, of.

• 49:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, slice shop.

• 49:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, the, the fancy pizza. Do they, were they selling slices or just pizzas?

• 50:01Speaker 05

  I'm assuming they were selling slices too. We just didn't see it.

• 50:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Uh, do you think that that's core to a?

• 50:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think so.

• 50:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, you don't acknowledge. Well, I'm just asking pizza places in general.

• 50:12Speaker 05

  Different experience. Just a different experience. I acknowledge both, but like, for what Owen is doing, I think he's, he's giving you slices too.

• 50:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Um, the last hour of the movie, they traveled to 15 different places in order to try to get a condom and be reunited. And that is obviously not geographically possible. That's sort of the collateral Michael Mann's Los Angeles, but move to New York. That's okay. It's movie magic.

• 50:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, he was at 145th Street at his mom's house. And then he was in Brooklyn Bridge Park. Those two are far apart. The beat doesn't run at night or on the weekends. Tough.

• 50:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. They also, so you have to assume that this is happening in the summer because of when the sun is rising and setting, though the mandate and the, the one night only are not tied to the sun. They are tied to 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. But I will say that the sun rose like very, very early on this day.

• 51:11Speaker 05

  It must have been June. Merry Christmas to the solstice.

• 51:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Which then at this point, why don't you just give people, you know, sundown to, well, you would want to give them.

• 51:22Speaker 05

  That'd be even shorter.

• 51:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, you would want, you would want to do December, I guess. You'd want to do the shortest day and the longest night of the year. And no one's thinking through this. Um, I like it when people shoot in daylight, so it's fine that they chose this. The finale, they're downtown and then they have to make it back to the George Washington Bridge and to the Little Red Lighthouse.

• 51:41Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 51:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Still within the hour.

• 51:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, I guess so. Um, yeah, she lives in the East Village.

• 51:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 51:49Speaker 05

  I believe. I think, I think they even say that at some point in the movie. And then yes, they have to make it to like, you know, 180 whatever street and, and the Hudson River.

• 51:57Amanda Dobbins?

  So you gotta get.

• 51:58Speaker 05

  Hard to get to.

• 51:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Across town. Also, like, are the subways running all night?

• 52:03Speaker 05

  Yes, they are. That's key to the movie.

• 52:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Do they, and they say it's like a daytime schedule, but all night?

• 52:08Speaker 05

  Oh, I don't know, but they have the countdown clocks in, in the subway. They've replaced where you're getting off.

• 52:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Which I thought was clever and good storytelling, but they didn't update the subway schedules. Where they didn't tell us whether they update the subway schedules because there's no way for the East Village, if you gotta get all the way over to a west sideline and then up.

• 52:27Speaker 05

  It's really tough.

• 52:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Then they have to get to this red lighthouse, this Little Red Lighthouse, which is a real place in which they filmed the finale, which I thought was great. Again, film in real places, we can tell. Um, is, it's, they still have like 30 minutes left?

• 52:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, doesn't make any sense. Also, why would any production schedule that for that morning? Like, why would you do that to people? Like, work should be canceled. If the government has said, this is the one 12 hour period per year in which you could have sex. Like, everyone should just be like, work's canceled. I do feel that like they did try to address this, like the babysitter issue and like, you know, like you can make a lot of money in that one night.

• 53:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 53:08Speaker 05

  They need to address childcare. They need to address getting rid of work.

• 53:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 53:13Speaker 05

  Like, there's just a lot of things that need to happen.

• 53:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Married people are allowed to have sex.

• 53:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:17Amanda Dobbins?

  So the married people take over the pizzeria. And then they do say a couple times that there's a lot of filming on this day because there's no paparazzi, because I guess the paparazzi are unmarried and need to go have sex. I agree with you that, and again, the production starts right at 7 a.m. So these people weren't using the most of their 12 hours. Maybe they're all married. Yeah, there are a lot of holes in the mandate. Yeah. Um, what did you think of, of, of the final decision of the, the ending and their getting together, but not really getting together?

• 53:57Speaker 05

  I liked it. Um, I was very distracted while watching Monica Barbaro in each new outfit she was wearing. So at the end, she's wearing a new white outfit. And I was just trying to like, take it all in. Uh, she looked great. I loved the slip dress at the beginning. Can't believe we haven't discussed it yet. I know you're interested in slip dresses right now.

• 54:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 54:13Speaker 05

  Um, she looked great, that brown one. The ending was good. I, I was glad it didn't end with a wedding. In my other job, talking about reality TV, I'm always advocating for like, no weddings, lower the stakes. So I was glad that it just like ended with sort of like the raison d'etre for the movie, which is sex. So that was good.

• 54:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, after a fake ending where they make it to the lighthouse and then they decide to not have sex, and they make Monica Barbaro say the line, let, what if we didn't let the mandate win? Which was tough.

• 54:46Speaker 05

  That was upsetting. I agree with you.

• 54:48Amanda Dobbins?

  That was tough. And that was sort of leaning into what doesn't work about the movie at the crucial moment when they could have just had sex and then had a nice life together. And then our lesson could be that it is possible both to have sex and find someone that you love and the two do not have to be mutually exclusive. Um, like the government in this movie has mandated to the American government. So I, I question that choice. And it, once again, this also sets up, is the way the film ends, which is they flash

• 55:31Amanda Dobbins?

  to one year later and the mandate has still not been repealed. I don't know what everybody was doing in the year, but they were not resisting hard enough. And they're at home and the timers go off and they very leisurely wake their way into the bedroom. I just don't understand the time management.

• 55:52Speaker 05

  Why is there no primal instinct to just get in there right away? Also, what happens if you go abroad? Like, you know, if you go to a different country, do the censors still work?

• 56:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I do think that the, um, the broadcast acknowledges that in other countries, the, um, the governments have not given it, have not given this one night exception. And so I think that there is, there are some troubles elsewhere in the world.

• 56:20Speaker 05

  Okay, so it's, it's a rising tide across the globe.

• 56:23Amanda Dobbins?

  But I don't know about the technology. We don't know who built the technology. We don't know, you know, what tech company is monitoring this, what kickbacks they've received. You know, we, we, none of that is explored.

• 56:37Speaker 05

  I liked the detail that you got to choose your shape. Like, you could, got to choose the shape of your biometric, like it's like a tattoo.

• 56:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Great.

• 56:45Speaker 05

  And I was like, okay, so the government doesn't want you to have sex except for on one night per year, but they want you to have like some playfulness with your biometric tracker? Okay, noted.

• 56:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Yeah, that, the ending just called back my attention to the problems of it, I think. But that doesn't, I was still smiling when they were together in the thing. And then I, you know, there's a, there's a goofy dance number afterwards, which I also.

• 57:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, the goofiness was great.

• 57:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought was very, very charming. So again, this movie has all of the tropes and essential elements of a rom com nailed down, except for the one, but it's the big one.

• 57:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's. It really, um, it almost like felt like the jokes made it get lost in its own ideas. Cause the jokes are funny, but they're like, the romance is just not there. The, the calm is, is effective.

• 57:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 57:41Speaker 05

  But I'm looking for more, way more rom, obviously.

• 57:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Uh, that is a, that's a great segue into the next part of this podcast, which is building the 21st century romantic comedy canon. And what actually meets our standards? I don't know whether One Night Only is gonna go into it. I will.

• 58:04Speaker 05

  I think it's not.

• 58:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it probably won't, but that doesn't mean that we didn't have a good time.

• 58:08Speaker 05

  I had a great time.

• 58:09Amanda Dobbins?

  And I, I did as well. I do, and I think it would be fun to, to go see it with friends.

• 58:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, agreed.

• 58:14Amanda Dobbins?

  And there is obviously a lot to argue about as we have, we have just argued. So I don't think it's gonna go in. What is gonna go in? Well, let's set some ground rules. The first one is, this is the 21st century romantic comedy canon. So we are defining that as 2001 to 2026. That means that Miss Congeniality, released in 2000, is not eligible. I don't make the rules. That is the definition of the 21st century.

• 58:43Speaker 05

  I agree with you. I was delighted that you were starting at 2001. Thank, like, thank you for being a purist.

• 58:48Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, here we are now, so it's like a neat 25 years.

• 58:51Speaker 05

  Sure, sure.

• 58:52Amanda Dobbins?

  So, and it's been an interesting 25 years. And I think this is gonna be an interesting task for both of us because as you indicated, we are the children of Nora Ephron and Nancy Meyers. We were maybe not quite of age when, when Harry Met Sally was released in 1989, but we saw it many times. And when Harry Met Sally is kind of the, the start of the golden age of romantic comedies in our lifetime. You know, there's the, the old Hollywood era. And then there are many great ones released before, but 1989 and when Harry Met Sally sets forth a lot of big budget, movie star led, um, like high box office sensations of a romantic comedy.

• 59:37Amanda Dobbins?

  So we are very, very attuned to the 90s versions and none of those are eligible.

• 59:43Speaker 05

  No, which is probably for the best, this exercise, right? Really makes us stretch and think about what should be in, because those are also obvious.

• 59:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. And, and, and in our definition, the 90s rom-coms are the heyday. So.

• 59:58Speaker 05

  Right.

• 59:58Amanda Dobbins?

  The, the films that we're working with from the last 25 years, there are some that are like the, kind of the last vestiges and the, the last grasp of that traditional studio rom-com with those stars. And then things get pretty dicey. It's been a rough 25 years for our beloved genre. Because after that kind of last gasp, really until about 2007, 2008, when you still have Renee Zellweger and Sandra Bullock and Jennifer Aniston, Kate Hudson and Jennifer Lopez and Reese Witherspoon and Katherine Heigl, who was kind of the, the usher of the, the, the end.

• 1:00:38Speaker 05

  The death now.

• 1:00:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Of romantic comedies, yeah. You know, and Matthew McConaughey and, and Will Smith. We, like, we know all of these stars, but they're pretty concentrated in the first seven or eight years.

• 1:00:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Of the century. And then it just stops. And it doesn't just stop. There are a couple of things that happen. One, I think Knocked Up happens and kind of the bro-com and the rise of Judd Apatow. And who is the lead of a romantic comedy? Because with the exception really of a Will Smith or a Hugh Grant, it was usually women, usually white women.

• 1:01:10Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:01:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Who were the, the stars, which is not an endorsement. That's just a observation of the trend.

• 1:01:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:18Amanda Dobbins?

  And so Knocked Up switches it more to bro-coms, switches it and proves that that can be a success. And that also that, you know, men can be in these. And also what the balance of romance and comedy should be in these should change. Now, like Adam Sandler has been doing this, his entire career, and his ratio is way more comedy than romance, and that works perfectly. So I'm not saying that Knocked Up introduced that, but it's kind of when things start to turn. The other thing that starts happening is the ensemble com.

• 1:01:52Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:01:53Amanda Dobbins?

  He's just not that into you, Valentine's Day, New Year's Eve. Crazy Stupid Love kind of fits in here.

• 1:02:01Speaker 05

  Kind of, yeah. I think also those two poles, like the bro-com and the ensemble com are interesting. Cause the bro-com, first of all, you mentioned Adam Sandler and Judd Apatow in the same breath. Obviously they came up together and that's sort of the subject of funny people. Um, but I think that's like really noteworthy that like Adam Sandler was doing this for men, largely, but really for everyone, um, for a long time. And I love the Sandman and his movies. Uh, I think like Judd Apatow, I think sort of took a lot of the same DNA and like, put it in a, a package that felt more palatable, maybe for a different like makeup of the audience, but they are really tied together. So that's an interesting point, but I think the source of those movies,

• 1:02:45Speaker 05

  Adam Sandler movies and Judd Apatow movies, like the jokes are bits. They're not situational, whereas a lot of rom-coms, like the humor is, is like tied to whatever is going on.

• 1:02:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:02:56Speaker 05

  Um, that's, I think that's not true of when Harry Met Sally. Like you think about the scene in like the Met or, you know, some of the other like, just like epic Billy Crystal lines in particular. It's like him just like having bits or whatever, which is just, you know, such a testament to that movie. That's very different from a lot of the other movies I think we're gonna talk about. Um, and then with the, the ensemble coms, those just like, aren't that funny? They have like a lot of the sheen and the pacing and like the, like the feeling of the rom-coms that we love, but I don't think of like, he's just not into you as a funny movie. I think of it as a pretty sad movie.

• 1:03:32Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, it is. And also like a sad reflection of a, a moment in our sociological culture where we were all just told, yeah, you just gotta, you gotta give up, um, move on. But, but they all kind of happen together and they're all successful enough that more things come out. Another interesting data point in that time is Bridesmaids, which is a huge hit and does have a romance.

• 1:03:57Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:03:58Amanda Dobbins?

  But is secondary to the female friendship and like female ensemble aspect of it. And I think some people feel, does it really even need the rom-com element? Can't it just be about Chris and Wig and Maya Rudolph finding their way back to each other?

• 1:04:13Speaker 05

  Right. I don't even think of it as a rom-com. I just think of it as a comedy.

• 1:04:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, exactly. But, but that is also a movie that uses a lot of female movie stars and on the rise, female movie stars, which is kind of the playbook for romantic comedies for a long time and makes a ton of money. And so then everyone's trying to make the next bridesmaids with their female movie stars, which means that they're not really making romantic comedies. Other things happen around this time, which is superheroes and really the, and Netflix. And so the, kind of the middle of the box office completely disappears. At the same time, the industry is trying to make all movies super international. And, you know, comedies are not as translatable internationally as say,

• 1:05:01Amanda Dobbins?

  a giant superhero movie, even though I kind of disagree with that, but that's what studios think. And it just, it all kind of crashes. And so there's a great Amy Nicholson piece that ran in 2014. It's called The Death of the Rom-com, which is reflecting what has already happened. And she notes in it that in 2013, there was not one romantic comedy in the top 50 films, not even in the top 100. And it's not just that the romantic comedies weren't performing at the box office, that, um, in 2013, the sole boy meets girl matrimony comedy was unceremoniously dumped into theaters by big indie Lionsgate and limped to number 101 on the chart.

• 1:05:47Amanda Dobbins?

  And her premise, the premise of the piece, which investigates and talks to a lot of people, it's really well reported. I recommend that everyone read it. It's, you know, it's the same. It's a, it's a lot of different factors. It's the audiences, it's the distribution systems. It is like international box office. It is, you know, competition. It's that the budgets of the, the economics of movies, right? And I think it identifies, how do you know that James L. Brooks, infamous 2010 romantic comedy starring Reese Witherspoon, among others, that just didn't work? Um, and it does not work.

• 1:06:24Speaker 05

  Harman.

• 1:06:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Just, it doesn't work.

• 1:06:25Speaker 05

  Harman's pretty pissed.

• 1:06:26Amanda Dobbins?

  It doesn't work, but you get enough of those and those become expensive enough as the, the economics of the movies are changing, as they always are. And people just stop making them. But. I 2013, 2014 is like a real stopping point. And they just do not make studio movies anymore. And so what we've gotten in the last 12 years, literally half of the eligibility time for this list is very different.

• 1:06:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56Amanda Dobbins?

  And not as widely seen and sometimes follows the rules, but also is kind of trying to, um, to, to change up a formula that wasn't really working. And so that's the interesting part of this is that we can talk about what our definition of a romantic comedy is, but I stood, I still do find myself gravitating towards the very classical definition. They don't really, they, that doesn't make sense anymore for people to make. Like that's been done, that's been done well. To your point about one night only and like the Easter eggs, the only thing that is left to do is make references to it. So I may have to be more flexible about my definition in this exercise, but I'm not

• 1:07:40Amanda Dobbins?

  very good at being flexible.

• 1:07:42Speaker 05

  I think we've talked about this on jam session. A lot of the best rom com ideas are also just now on TV.

• 1:07:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 05

  And I actually felt this way a little bit with one night only, like, would this have been a better idea as a TV show? Cause it clearly had so many ideas and the sort of like travelogue piece of it, the odyssey piece of it. Like, is that better done over the course of like eight episodes than in 146, an hour and 46 minutes?

• 1:08:04Amanda Dobbins?

  And I, maybe it lets you experiment with tone a bit more and be a little bit looser and just a bit more messed up in a way that I think this movie is really just trying to skate over all of the complications that its premise presents because it wants you to have a fun time at the movies, which it is, until you remember that sex is legally banned by the federal government and everyone has censors in their bodies.

• 1:08:29Speaker 05

  The other part of the movie, you're right, it's intermountable. But the other thing it lacks is like actually good friends. Like we did this exercise at Grantland like a while ago, I'm sure it'll come up here. A hallmark of all the best rom coms is like a really great friend who is there to help like work out inner monologue stuff. I mean, all of the greats have that, right? Like Carrie Fisher is, I hope, as famous for, and Harry Met Sally is, she is for Princess Leia, at least in my home. And, you know, that's really lacking in one night only too. And I feel like it's hard, it seems like it's hard to make space for that kind of thing in movies now.

• 1:09:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, let's enumerate our criteria for a romantic comedy. I feel very strongly about my structural definition.

• 1:09:12Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:09:12Amanda Dobbins?

  And this may come back to bite me in the ass specifically because some of my favorite movies don't meet it, but, and I guess it's a bad idea to be a very strict traditionalist in any forms, certainly in a legislature, but also when making this canon. But I guess I'm, you need some place to start from, okay? And this is a made up list. So my structural definition is that it's two people who are opposed at the beginning of a film and they wind up together at the very end.

• 1:09:46Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:09:47Amanda Dobbins?

  If they get together halfway through and then they have some like emotional setbacks and they're not sure whether they can trust each other, that's a different genre. It doesn't mean it's bad, it's just a different genre. If someone dies, it's a different genre. If someone is a dragon or whatever, that's a different genre. I hear it's very popular. I'm, this is, this is going to be controversial, but I don't think that we have any animated, uh,

• 1:10:15Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:10:16Amanda Dobbins?

  examples on our list. So it, that one is not just a different genre, that's just not an area where we are experts. And so there's not a huge tradition of adult animated romantic comedies, at least in a box office space. And so we're not considering them for this. And I'm sure people are going to yell, but I'm sure people are going to yell a lot.

• 1:10:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you have anything else you want to add in terms of the structural definition?

• 1:10:42Speaker 05

  Can I just throw a couple of movies at you that I'm like wondering how you think of them?

• 1:10:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:10:46Speaker 05

  The breakup starring Vince Vaughn.

• 1:10:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Don't spoil it, I put it on the long list, we're going to talk about it.

• 1:10:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, I didn't know who's going to be on it. Okay, sorry.

• 1:10:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:10:55Speaker 05

  I'm new here.

• 1:10:55Amanda Dobbins?

  When I am in control of the document, everyone's comments and concerns are added to the document, including yours.

• 1:11:02Speaker 05

  Okay, I'm following your lead, carry on.

• 1:11:04Amanda Dobbins?

  So that's, that's the textbook structural definition. Then obviously personal tastes and preferences are going to come into play here. And so here's something I feel very strongly about, and you can push back, but I think that this is an adults only space. I think that teen.

• 1:11:22Speaker 05

  It's porn?

• 1:11:23Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm sorry?

• 1:11:24Speaker 05

  Is it porn?

• 1:11:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, not one night only, because it's illegal. They don't even touch porn. There's like not even a reference that porn exists that I remember. Maybe they do, maybe there's a passing reference.

• 1:11:35Speaker 05

  I don't think they do it because they don't talk about masturbation either, but it is like the number one.

• 1:11:38Amanda Dobbins?

  They don't talk about what happens, what happens if the condom breaks?

• 1:11:42Speaker 05

  No conversation about that either.

• 1:11:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:11:44Speaker 05

  It didn't seem like it was too top of mind because Callum Turner was practicing with a glove.

• 1:11:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. That was funny. That was good physical comedy. Okay, so I just think teen movies are different.

• 1:11:56Speaker 05

  Yes, yes, completely agree. I think if you have to ask, is this a teen movie or a rom com? Or is this a sports movie or a rom com? It is not a rom com.

• 1:12:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. Is this an action movie or a rom com is a similar one. There are many movies that have a romance, but are they leading as a romantic comedy? Is the question that we're trying to identify. So for me, I'm particular about the premise, which is similar to what you're saying is the, the premise that needs to be, it needs to be specific to the real world and also not confusing in terms of other genre designations.

• 1:12:32Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 1:12:33Amanda Dobbins?

  So it, the premise can be immoral or amoral. I'm thinking of While You Were Sleeping, I'm thinking of You've Got Mail, those are not eligible because they were released in the nineties, but their core text. But for example, Kate and Leopold, which is when it's Meg Ryan falls in love with Hugh Jackman who came from the past, is that right?

• 1:12:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I believe so.

• 1:12:57Amanda Dobbins?

  That's, that's a little too romanticy, you know? That's, that's a different, and what we're dealing with in whether or not they can be together is more about time and space and metaphysics than it is about how people meet and interact in the real world.

• 1:13:11Speaker 05

  Sure. So like this also eliminates Enchanted with Amy Adams and Patrick Dempsey.

• 1:13:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:13:16Speaker 05

  And James Marsden.

• 1:13:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, we don't have musicals on this, I should, I don't think. We have many musical sequences, but I think of Enchanted as musical first. It's to your question of is it, is it a rom com or is it a musical?

• 1:13:30Speaker 05

  Right, there's just, there's one music motivated movie that I can't wait to discuss.

• 1:13:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, it is also, Enchanted is Cinderella, more or less, isn't it?

• 1:13:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, but like with some jokes about modern life and Amy Adams.

• 1:13:42Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and it is a musical because Working Girl is also Cinderella, but I do think that it is romantic comedy and, but it's the eighties, so it doesn't matter for this. So.

• 1:13:54Speaker 05

  I agree with you.

• 1:13:55Amanda Dobbins?

  You've added, you've added really great friends, which I think is important. That is a, that's a key.

• 1:14:02Speaker 05

  It's a huge one. It's a really, it's a really big one. And I think that we will have that reinforced throughout this.

• 1:14:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. And then my last qualification is time and money spent. If you have fake movie stars, if you have people who can't hang, if you've, if you've miscast this, it's, we can tell. If you're using a green screen of a famous bridge, we can tell. And which has happened in many movies that we're going to discuss, but not one night only, I will say, they use the real bridge and I give them credit for that. But, you know, Nora Ephron and Nancy Meyers are very specific examples where they write their scripts and direct most of their movies themselves. And they are like completely, they are a tourist, right? They are a specific world that these people imagine.

• 1:14:50Amanda Dobbins?

  And not, most romantic comedies, and especially most studio romantic comedies are, are not made that way. The, the script and the director are often very different. And so the expression, the, the writing and the expression of the world are slightly more divided than in Nora Ephron and Nancy Meyers, but it, it is really essential to the text, no matter, no matter who's writing and directing. And if you're doing a lazy version, it takes away from the movie.

• 1:15:17Speaker 05

  It's evident, yeah.

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• 1:16:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Are, do you feel good about this? Do you feel good about our long list? Is there anything?

• 1:16:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:16:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I added all your suggestions. You think we're clear? Anything else you want to say?

• 1:16:43Speaker 05

  Well, I just want to say like one other genre I feel like has permeated this century is like, is the combination of Sex and the City and Girls. And I think those have a lot of motivation, or like have a lot of similar motivation and interest as romantic comedy. But of course, they're TV shows, so it's a slightly different conversation. But those are also ultimately about Friends.

• 1:17:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:17:04Speaker 05

  The Friends are the thing. And I think that like, people who love romantic comedies, I think frequently also love those two television shows. And I think they appeal to similar senses, but they're not like in the conversation in the same way. But I think it's worth mentioning them because they're so tied to the genre.

• 1:17:20Amanda Dobbins?

  And it's an important point because Sex and the City was turned into a movie and a sequel, both of which would be eligible for this. I don't have Sex and the City 2 on the long list because it is not good. And I don't have Sex and the City, the film, on the long list because I do think that it is a Friends first movie. I think it's a different, uh, different genre. And there is even in that movie, after the wedding's canceled and they go to Mexico, and then she hires Jennifer Hudson, and it's, you know, labels and love and whatever. I've seen this movie like a thousand times. I'm not above this movie.

• 1:17:54Speaker 05

  It's a great movie.

• 1:17:54Amanda Dobbins?

  But when she and Big, spoiler alert, finally do get married, they're at the courthouse, and then they have their nice moment. But the real emotional moment of that movie is when he swings the door open at the courthouse.

• 1:18:07Speaker 05

  And her friends are there.

• 1:18:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Friends are there, and they all just, you know, squeal together. And it's lovely and wonderful. So I-

• 1:18:15Speaker 05

  I just wanted to acknowledge sort of like, it's like Friends of the Pod, Friends of a genre. It's more Friends of the Genre. It's like spiritually tied, but ineligible for this exercise.

• 1:18:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Okay. So here's what we'll do. I'm just gonna go through the long list. There are some that we can just be like, no, we don't want to include this. And some we can say, yes, this is essential. This is a long list that you and I brainstorm together. We will forget things. Once again, this is our personal, but also legally binding canon. And we have explained our criteria. They may be slightly different than yours. That said, we've watched a lot of these. So here we go. Number one that I put on Bridget Jones' Diary 2001, adapted from the Helen Fielding novel, which was inspired by Pride and Prejudice.

• 1:19:02Speaker 05

  Unassailable, yes. What a wonderful movie.

• 1:19:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:19:05Speaker 05

  And yes, absolutely. I mean, it, it fits everything that you've listed, and it's also an incredibly wonderful special movie and a great book.

• 1:19:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Stars Renee Zellweger, who was nominated for Best Actress for this performance. It's written by several people, but Richard Curtis wrote it, and he created, he wrote For Weddings and a Funeral, he created Love Actually, which I also don't think is eligible. That's an ensemble, not a rom-com.

• 1:19:31Speaker 05

  An ensemble.

• 1:19:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Many, many of those people don't, uh, find love at all, especially not-

• 1:19:36Speaker 05

  But it's a, it's a sad movie.

• 1:19:39Amanda Dobbins?

  So it's a really sad movie about how our workplaces are not professional, and, uh, you can't trust Alan Rickman, even if you want to. So-

• 1:19:48Speaker 05

  We are aware that he also made Notting Hales from 1999.

• 1:19:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:19:52Speaker 05

  Just want to be clear.

• 1:19:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. Uh, I mean, one of the, probably still in my top three romantic comedies.

• 1:19:57Speaker 05

  Oh, definitely. It's so good. I mean, it's so, it's, it's so good. Uh, I feel warm thinking about it.

• 1:20:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. But that's 1999. He also wrote the film Yesterday. You know about that one?

• 1:20:07Speaker 05

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:20:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you see it?

• 1:20:09Speaker 05

  I love the music of the Beatles. Um-

• 1:20:12Amanda Dobbins?

  But what if someone else wrote it? And no one, or what is it? What if no one else remembered the music of the Beatles?

• 1:20:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think that's what it was. I didn't see it, no.

• 1:20:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, it's pretty outrageous. Okay.

• 1:20:24Speaker 05

  He's got some misses.

• 1:20:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Bridget Jones' Diary, an absolute yes.

• 1:20:27Speaker 05

  Hard yes.

• 1:20:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, Colin's, Colin first as Mr. Darcy's, um, I like you just the way you are speech was a literal reading at my wedding, so we will move on. Okay, this is an interesting one. Legally Blonde, also 2001. Reese Witherspoon, Luke Wilson, Harvard, Harvard Law, I should say.

• 1:20:46Speaker 05

  I'm going with no.

• 1:20:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Say more.

• 1:20:49Speaker 05

  Well, she is opposed with, um, I would say Warren. Is that his name? The man he wants, she wants to marry? Um, that's his name, isn't it?

• 1:20:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:20:59Speaker 05

  And they do not end up together at the end. Um, she does find her, her way to Luke Wilson. They're never really opposed. He's sort of more bemused by her.

• 1:21:09Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. And it is as much about Elle finding herself.

• 1:21:13Speaker 05

  Yes. It's about Elle finding herself. And also, like, the affirmation of her lifestyle and like caring about your hair matters because a perm unlocks the case. So I think this is much more about like, you know, one woman's journey from-

• 1:21:28Amanda Dobbins?

  I accept.

• 1:21:29Speaker 05

  From clueless to informed, and she happens to find love along the way. And on the Friends point, she makes a good friend along the way in Jennifer Coolidge.

• 1:21:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:21:38Speaker 05

  But she's not sort of that like ride or die friend who helps, like, helps you understand the character. She's another project. She's another case.

• 1:21:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, but then then she does give the character a purpose and gives the character, you know, the character has not really been paying attention to the people around her, um, except for sorority purposes. Oh, I accept it. I think you're right. It's more about Reese Witherspoon as Elle Woods.

• 1:22:04Speaker 05

  It's a great movie.

• 1:22:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. It's really, and honestly, one of our great courtroom dramas, courtroom comedies. How about that? But the, the perm seal, the perm reveal, electric.

• 1:22:14Speaker 05

  Oh, it's so good.

• 1:22:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:22:15Speaker 05

  It's a, I mean, Ali Landry, she is wonderful. It's just, it's a great movie. Victor Garber. We love it. But it's not a rom-com.

• 1:22:21Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not going in the canon. Okay. The Wedding Planner, 2001, Jennifer Lopez, Matthew McConaughey.

• 1:22:26Speaker 05

  This is one of my favorite movies. I like, as we talk about it, I feel like we're talking about a cute boy. I'm like, I love this movie the way I love a cute boy.

• 1:22:34Amanda Dobbins?

  What speaks to you about it? I put this on the long list because I knew you felt this way. And this is also Jennifer Lopez, um, was a sensation in this, this era for her romantic comedies. Some of them with Ben Affleck, which were not as successful, and The Wedding Planner, which was pretty successful.

• 1:22:50Speaker 05

  Yeah. Um, yes. And then I think the third in that is Made in Manhattan with, uh-

• 1:22:55Amanda Dobbins?

  With Ralph Fiennes, which I think did make more, make a lot of money, but leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah.

• 1:23:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's not good. Um, The Wedding Planner. This is my favorite, Matthew McConaughey. It is definitely pre hair transformation.

• 1:23:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:23:09Speaker 05

  Um, he's wearing a gray, thin, blue sweater in it, like, that I just can think of very fondly. Um, I think one thing that's great about this movie is that Bridget Wilson is very, very likeable. So at no point are you rooting for like, this woman to like, take down another woman, uh, even though you might like lean in that direction. It's, everyone in it is a joy. It's a great Judy Greer. She's like, uh, totally hysterical in it and as the number two wedding planner in this firm. And it is just really charming. Also, I think it's a great San Francisco movie. And we have, we talked about how like, you know, the place really matters.

• 1:23:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:23:49Speaker 05

  They do San Francisco well. They do wine country well. It introduces Dr. Alex Karev, which is very important to culture.

• 1:23:57Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a Grey's Anatomy reference for those of you.

• 1:23:59Speaker 05

  He's Massimo. Justin Chambers.

• 1:24:02Amanda Dobbins?

  So this scene with the peanut M&Ms where they meet, and you can tell that they're in love. So Matthew McConaughey is someone who's getting married and using Jennifer Lopez's Wedding Planner services, but-

• 1:24:15Speaker 05

  He doesn't know, yes.

• 1:24:15Amanda Dobbins?

  When they have this spark, it's, is the Golden Gate Bridge in the, is that in the Full House Park?

• 1:24:22Speaker 05

  It's supposed to be in the park. It's in the park. Uh, that's a different park. That's Alamo Square. I think this is in, supposed to be in Golden Gate Park.

• 1:24:28Amanda Dobbins?

  So you can't see it?

• 1:24:29Speaker 05

  No. Which is great. Saves some money. Don't even try to pretend.

• 1:24:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I guess so. I mean, I would like to see it. Um, did you watch voicemails for Isabel?

• 1:24:38Speaker 05

  I started it.

• 1:24:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Well, yeah. And that's the problem there. That to me is, I guess, it's not a romantic comedy because it doesn't start with them being opposed. Um, it starts with a, a terminal illness, which I was not expecting. Anyway, they also use green screen Golden Gate Bridge. Okay. Wedding Planner-

• 1:24:55Speaker 05

  Not great.

• 1:24:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Is going in for you, Juliette Littman.

• 1:24:58Speaker 05

  What do you say?

• 1:24:59Amanda Dobbins?

  We need, yes, we need a J-Lo and a McConaughey. And I-

• 1:25:02Speaker 05

  Plus-

• 1:25:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Go ahead.

• 1:25:04Speaker 05

  They end up together. They're, you know, and there's like trials and tribulations.

• 1:25:07Amanda Dobbins?

  They do end up together. Okay.

• 1:25:08Speaker 05

  She's mad at him throughout the movie, and he's sort of like, rightfully so. It's, to your point, it's immoral, but I don't know. It's, it fits the bill.

• 1:25:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm curious how many wedding-related romantic comedies we will end up with at the end, because this becomes-

• 1:25:26Speaker 05

  Find out.

• 1:25:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Its own genre. Okay. Next, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, speaking of, 2002. This stars Neveardalis John Corbett. So this has to go in because this was an absolute sensation. This made $241 million domestic in the US. It is like-

• 1:25:46Speaker 05

  The Ian Gomez character was based on, um, one of my high school teachers. So it was like loomed large. Yeah.

• 1:25:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:25:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was huge. I feel like Neveardalis became a household name.

• 1:25:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. I, they're not opposed, but they are not married at the beginning of this. And it is about all of the things that are going to keep them from getting married, and can they make it to getting married? And spoiler alert, they do. So I think structurally, we're on safe ground here.

• 1:26:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, I agree with you.

• 1:26:18Amanda Dobbins?

  And I think just like culturally significance and amount of money made.

• 1:26:21Speaker 05

  It's huge.

• 1:26:22Amanda Dobbins?

  It has to go in. Yeah. Okay.

• 1:26:23Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:26:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Here's another one.

• 1:26:25Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:26:26Amanda Dobbins?

  2002, Sweet Home Alabama. Reese Witherspoon is a fashion designer and she wants to marry Patrick Dempsey because he's JFK Junior, but with a different name and Candace Bergen is his mom and

• 1:26:39Speaker 05

  How lucky is he?

• 1:26:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Unfortunately, she has not finalized her divorce with Josh Lucas, who is back home in Alabama. And so they must all go home to finalize the divorce, but then some, some feelings are revealed. I've seen this movie a tremendous amount of times. I don't think that that makes it good. It did make $180 million, which is a lot of money. This is Reese Witherspoon really ascending.

• 1:27:08Speaker 05

  This movie is great. I don't even know why you have any trepidation about like admitting to liking it. Sweet Home Alabama is like one of the most charming movies I really have like ever seen. Also, a lot of people we love. You didn't even mention that Ethan Embry is in this movie. It's one of his, one of his great performances in this century.

• 1:27:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:27:25Speaker 05

  Um, it also has a great Melanie Linsky as her best friend.

• 1:27:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:27:30Speaker 05

  Um, who's still living back in, a former best friend, I guess. She's still living in Alabama. It surmounts a really cheesy, like repeated motif about lightning in a bottle. We're, we're able to get past that.

• 1:27:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Now, I was gonna say this, the lightning in the bottle is one of the arguments for putting it in the romantic comedy, the 21st century canon, because you need to have a couple of facts or scenes or setups in a romantic comedy that you, you think of every single time you encounter them in the world. It's where, it's where I learned really about the mechanics of lightning in a bottle. And so now anytime I think about lightning hitting sand or just lightning striking in general, I'm like, oh, I wonder whether it will make a sculpture that Josh Lucas can dig up from the sand. And then the other one is shutting down Tiffany's in order to propose, which Patrick Dempsey's character does at the beginning of the film.

• 1:28:24Amanda Dobbins?

  And I don't know that many people who have done it, but anytime it comes up, I don't know anyone who's done it. I don't know why I said that many people.

• 1:28:31Speaker 05

  I was gonna be like, wow. Um, I think it also does something that we like, which is like, it has some of these small Easter eggs.

• 1:28:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:38Speaker 05

  The Tiffany's thing makes me think of the scene in Sleepless in Seattle when they go to Tiffany's and like, eight is too few, 10 is too, 12 is too many. Uh, you know, Tiffany's is part of the rom com, like the building a rom com, it's part of it. So it does that well.

• 1:28:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:28:55Speaker 05

  It picks and chooses other small things. It's a great movie. It also has reenactors in it. How many great rom coms have Civil War reenactors in it?

• 1:29:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I don't know whether they're reenacting the version of history that we would like to see on, whatever. I can go in. Uh, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, 2003, like the biggest, we don't, there's no limit here on the number that we can put in. That's what differs, differentiates this from a Hall of Fame. But if we only had five spots even, I think that How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days would go on there.

• 1:29:25Speaker 05

  I think it's iconic and canonical.

• 1:29:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:29:27Speaker 05

  That said, I don't like it that much. I don't like the Kate Hudson performance of her, you know, like the, it's not really her fault. But first of all, this is, you know, kind of shortly after she really blows up with Almost Famous. And a few years later, uh, and so she's sort of like riding this new wave of fame, even though she's obviously famous as Goldie Hawn's daughter, among other things. And it's sort of like a pathetic performance. The character is sort of pathetic of like the things that she does to prove her point. And it's one of these movies that I think is like kind of gross for women, even, even though it's like a movie for women. And so I just don't really like it very much.

• 1:30:10Amanda Dobbins?

  It is very retrograde when you watch it back. And also you think about how old you and I were when we first saw this. And it does those so many, it sets a precedent for so many romantic comedies. She is a writer at a women's magazine and you know, you have Judy Greer as the best friend once again, and you've got like the, the yellow dress that becomes like the, the Halloween costume and the reference point. And the Knicks game, there are a lot of memes and things within it that are incredibly sticky if they even, even if they make you feel bad, which, and then where does she go? She writes the column at the end and then they're on the side of a real bridge.

• 1:30:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Maybe this should be the only litmus test. It's like, do you have a real bridge or a fake bridge? If there's a real bridge, you can be in the canon. If it's fake, you're out. Anyway, they reunite on the side. I believe the Brooklyn Bridge could be Manhattan. And, uh, they fall in love. I, it's gotta go in. This is

• 1:31:13Speaker 05

  It's gotta go in.

• 1:31:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, hugely influential. Okay. I agree. I ask, ask for more from the men in your life. Something's gotta give. Two, also 2003, written and directed by Nancy Meyers.

• 1:31:24Speaker 05

  I mean, one of the greatest movies of our lifetime.

• 1:31:26Amanda Dobbins?

  It was on our 25 for 25 list. So as the romantic comedy, yes. It made a lot of money, $124 million domestic. Also, you know, is about someone over the age of 40. So that's very exciting and pretty rare on this list. Great writing. I think the most influential of her production designs and clearly inspired coastal grandma, among other TikTok trends.

• 1:31:53Speaker 05

  Of course. Yeah.

• 1:31:54Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, and Jack Nicholson, and anytime someone is not picking Keanu Reeves is a level of rom com wizardry. It's really hard to put everyone in a situation where the audience is not rooting for Keanu Reeves, who's a doctor in the Hamptons.

• 1:32:10Speaker 05

  I know.

• 1:32:11Amanda Dobbins?

  But they figured it out.

• 1:32:11Speaker 05

  A nice one.

• 1:32:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:32:13Speaker 05

  Really, really, really good movie.

• 1:32:14Amanda Dobbins?

  That one's going in. Under the Tuscan Sun.

• 1:32:18Speaker 05

  This one is a little bit closer to The Legally Blonde.

• 1:32:21Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree with you. I think that it's not going in. I mean, it is culturally influential and under the Tuscan sun is a shorthand for a woman finding her own and also, and through some home renovation, usually in Europe. Right. And so there is a romance and there's also heartbreak at the beginning and the middle of the movie, but I agree. Great, a great movie, a, a great reference, a great framework for life. Once you can get past the cheating and the divorce, not in the canon.

• 1:32:53Speaker 05

  We've covered several movies now that include actors from Grey's Anatomy and there's more to come. I just want to say this, this is probably why I love Grey's Anatomy so much, you know?

• 1:33:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:33:01Speaker 05

  Tied to the genre.

• 1:33:03Amanda Dobbins?

  13 Going on 30, 2004. Speak on it.

• 1:33:07Speaker 05

  It's a teen movie. This is a teen pretending to be an adult. This is big for 2.0. It's a fun movie. It's got the Michael Jackson thriller dance number. There's a sequel coming. But this is not a rom com. It has a romance, but again, this is about a woman, like, or a young girl finding her way.

• 1:33:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that's right. I think we're gonna get a lot of blowback for that. And we obviously, you and I are very pro Jennifer Garner.

• 1:33:32Speaker 05

  It's an understatement.

• 1:33:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I, but I agree.

• 1:33:35Speaker 05

  Mark Ruffalo as well.

• 1:33:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:33:37Speaker 05

  And Judy Greer. I mean, it's, it's a great movie.

• 1:33:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:40Speaker 05

  But it's not a rom com.

• 1:33:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh oh. Okay. I agree. I agree. Hitch, 2005.

• 1:33:47Speaker 05

  Don't call it classic rom com.

• 1:33:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Absolutely. Yes.

• 1:33:49Speaker 05

  It's so, so good. I think it's my favorite Will Smith movie. He's so funny in it. His physical comedy is really good. It's definitely like when I think of Eva Mendes movies, I think of Hitch. Like, I feel like this is like just a cultural touchstone, recently covered on the rewatchables.

• 1:34:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:34:04Speaker 05

  Great, great movie. Um, and also one thing it does really well, which not some of these attempt, is it basically is two bromances that they're trying to land at the same time. And it's successful. Both are sort of unexpected. Obviously the Eva Mendes, Will Smith one is, is the main one. But Amber Valetta and Kevin James is great too. And like the dancing scene, I just think of and, and smile. It's a great movie.

• 1:34:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Does the fact that it's two couples, so that's

• 1:34:34Speaker 05

  Disqualify it?

• 1:34:35Amanda Dobbins?

  disqualify it? Or does it just make it double rom com? I'm, I'm being devil's advocate here.

• 1:34:39Speaker 05

  Sure. I think I can easily point to when Harry Met Sally, which is also two couples. And that didn't disqualify that. So it's no problem.

• 1:34:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. That's great. It does also made $179 million domestically, which is a lot of money.

• 1:34:50Speaker 05

  It's so good. Like it is, I just think a classic timeless movie.

• 1:34:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Also has, you know, spawned many memes. Again, it's influential. Okay. Yes. Going in. This is an interesting one. And also related to the question I just asked you, Wedding Crashers, 2005.

• 1:35:09Speaker 05

  I think this stretches the limits, but it's a yes for me.

• 1:35:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it also stretches the limits and is a hugely influential movie and, and also incredibly successful, made $209 million. But I, there is, it's about friendship too, you know?

• 1:35:27Speaker 05

  Yes, it is, absolutely.

• 1:35:28Amanda Dobbins?

  And it is about the cast of characters and they're not really opposed at any point.

• 1:35:37Speaker 05

  Rachel McAdams is engaged.

• 1:35:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:35:39Speaker 05

  And Owen Wilson is just like, has lied his way into the family vacation.

• 1:35:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:35:46Speaker 05

  So they're sort of, sort of opposed, but like, the opposing force is really Bradley Cooper. And Christopher Walken.

• 1:35:54Amanda Dobbins?

  If this is not a wedding set movie, does it make it more, and they're just?

• 1:36:01Speaker 05

  They're just con men?

• 1:36:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, they're con men. Yeah, they're con men. Is this more or less of a romantic comedy?

• 1:36:08Speaker 05

  I think almost more.

• 1:36:09Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree, which is interesting. I guess the bones are there. Okay, we'll take it.

• 1:36:14Speaker 05

  I think, I think the bones are there.

• 1:36:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:36:16Speaker 05

  And it's, I love, I miss the era, like, you know, in, in 2005 to 2010. Where people were quoting the rules from Wedding Crashing like frequently.

• 1:36:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. What are the rules? Do you remember them?

• 1:36:29Speaker 05

  No, I don't because I've lost my mind. But like, you know, it'd be like number, whatever, play like a champion or like.

• 1:36:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, just like, I just love that era. This movie was a force for good. That's, that's what I'll say.

• 1:36:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, it can go in. The breakup, 2006.

• 1:36:45Speaker 05

  I raised this one before.

• 1:36:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Aniston, and it is about a couple who gets together and then breaks up. It is, that's, the premise is that it's not a romantic comedy. The premise is what happens after the romantic comedy. It is using everything that we know and expect in a romantic comedy to watch this other movie, which is like, sort of a comedy, but this is the other thing, it's not very funny.

• 1:37:11Speaker 05

  It's sad.

• 1:37:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:11Speaker 05

  There's the one funny scene. Do you like the singing scene in this movie?

• 1:37:14Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:37:14Speaker 05

  Cause it's like supposed to be awkward.

• 1:37:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, no, I don't like that.

• 1:37:17Speaker 05

  I think of it frequently.

• 1:37:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:37:20Speaker 05

  Kick drum, come, come, on the kick drum. Yes, it's a great scene. Uh, I do not think that this is a romantic comedy, but I thought it was an interesting experiment at the time. I didn't like it at the time because I was like, this isn't a rom-com. I thought I was seeing a rom-com.

• 1:37:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:33Speaker 05

  But I do think it's like, it's successful in trying to subvert expectations.

• 1:37:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Made a tremendous amount of money, $118 million. That's, that's a lot. I, I agree with you. I don't think that according to our structural definition, it is romantic comedy, so it's not going in.

• 1:37:49Amanda Dobbins?

  The next is on the list because of you. Juliette Ledman, The Holiday, directed and written by Nancy Meyers, 2006. Would you like to make your case? Yeah, I know you do.

• 1:37:59Speaker 05

  This is a tough one too, to make the case. This also stretches the outer limits and I'm, I'm open to your feedback, Amanda, but here's the case for it to be in.

• 1:38:10Speaker 05

  It is two women in parallel who are going through like, you know, relationship crises, who go to another location where by all accounts, they should not be getting into another relationship. But they both meet someone with whom they're not necessar- well, Cameron Diaz's case, they are sort of opposed. At the beginning at least, because it's like, she's annoyed. She's just sort of harried in general. Uh, who would be, who would be annoyed when that beautiful dupe love shows up?

• 1:38:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's not really that annoyed. Yeah. They're, I guess they're opposed with time.

• 1:38:41Speaker 05

  They're opposed with time and then Kate Winslet is still sort of in love with Rufus Sewell. When Jack Black is falling for her.

• 1:38:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:38:49Speaker 05

  And so like.

• 1:38:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Also, he sings to her in a blockbuster.

• 1:38:52Speaker 05

  Daring Robert De Niro, um, or featuring Robert De Niro. Uh, it shouldn't, both of these are like relationships that shouldn't be. And then they end up working. Um, so it builds to the happily ever after. But I do think these are more like women on a journey movies than they are.

• 1:39:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Women on a journey movie and also they, this movie is not as successful in theaters as Nancy Meyers' other movies, but it has been reclaimed as a Christmas special because it does happen at Christmas. But that, a Christmas movie is not necessarily a romantic comedy. So I think that this is a different genre. I think this is women finding themselves and also Mr. Napkin Head, uh, at Christmas.

• 1:39:37Amanda Dobbins?

  So it's not going in. That's controversial, but that's, that's how it goes. The next one is going to be really tough, but I wanted to make my case to you.

• 1:39:44Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:39:45Amanda Dobbins?

  So The Devil Wears Prada, 2006, which I traditionally have gotten annoyed with people who have described The Devil Wears Prada as a romantic comedy because it's not a romantic comedy. It's just a movie that focuses on women. And it's true that there are very few of those, but I was thinking about it recently and I'm like, well, what if the romance is between Miranda and Andy?

• 1:40:11Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:40:11Amanda Dobbins?

  And they find each other and they find a moment at the end. But even then, they, they, they, they come together and then Andy goes on her way. So really.

• 1:40:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's.

• 1:40:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Devil Wears Prada 2 would be the romantic comedy.

• 1:40:27Speaker 05

  And it's, it ties a bit of a downer, Devil Wears Prada 2.

• 1:40:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:31Speaker 05

  Um, I don't think it quite fits, but it has this, it's a work, it's a workplace comedy.

• 1:40:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Which is important.

• 1:40:38Speaker 05

  Sorry.

• 1:40:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Women who, yeah. And, and it is also ladies finding themselves.

• 1:40:44Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 1:40:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I said that. Okay. Well, I tried. I, I love the original Devil Wears Prada very much.

• 1:40:49Speaker 05

  It's great.

• 1:40:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:40:52Amanda Dobbins?

  All right. We're going to move through these. Knocked Up, 2007. I, I, this is not our favorite romantic comedy, but I think it's so essential. Yeah, it like, it has to be in. I mean, there is just the basic point that these two people would not end up together. Nor would this situation pan out the way that it does in the film.

• 1:41:11Speaker 05

  Sure, sure.

• 1:41:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Because.

• 1:41:13Speaker 05

  It almost feels more akin to One Night Only and it's, and it's set up than it does to like almost everything else in the real world.

• 1:41:19Amanda Dobbins?

  It's true, but since it's only one, you know, one couple as opposed to the entire, uh, United States, then you don't really need to worry about why they aren't just terminating the pregnancy and moving on. Anyway.

• 1:41:31Speaker 05

  Also, we'll say, I love Seth Rogen and like, he is very charming in this. He's a great actor. He's a charming human. He's a charming actor. He's great. And like, it did sort of, this, I, I think that he is like, as big as some of the other people we've mentioned in terms of rom-coms because, obviously because of Jada Appertout. And like, this is sort of his main rom-com.

• 1:41:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree. And it's, it's a big deal and it is so influential in movies and also in the, in the arc of the romantic comedy. So we'll put it in. The next one, so one thing I want to introduce to you, for a Hall of Fame's, we pick 10 and then we pick one, one special blue, uh, film, which is just a personal endorsement, which we don't have number limits on this canon, but we could also do one personal endorsement. But at first I'd like to offer you the chance to make the case for your beloved music and lyrics.

• 1:42:29Speaker 05

  Well, I don't know why I need to make the case because it clearly is a rom-com. Are you saying because it's not good?

• 1:42:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, we are making the canon of the romantic comedies that we feel are essential of the last 25 years.

• 1:42:41Speaker 05

  Okay. Well, this is definitely one of them. I mean, it's funny, we actually maybe should talk more about Drew Barrymore. Like, do we have 50 First Dates on here?

• 1:42:50Amanda Dobbins?

  I, we don't. Do you want to put it on?

• 1:42:53Speaker 05

  I don't know, but I'm just thinking about Drew Barrymore and the Sandman. I mean, there's The Wedding Singer.

• 1:42:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:42:58Speaker 05

  There, but the what year is The Wedding Singer?

• 1:43:00Amanda Dobbins?

  The Wedding Singer is 90s.

• 1:43:02Speaker 05

  Okay, so that's out. 50 First Dates though, that's in the 2000s, isn't it?

• 1:43:05Amanda Dobbins?

  It is. I believe it's 2006.

• 1:43:07Speaker 05

  That's a Depresso one though. I don't think that one should be in.

• 1:43:10Amanda Dobbins?

  It's 2004 and I agree that I, I didn't put it on the list.

• 1:43:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:43:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Quality does factor into what we're doing here. Go, go ahead.

• 1:43:19Speaker 05

  I feel Music and Lyrics is a high quality movie that I at one point in my life purchased from the Apple Store and therefore carry around on my phone every single day. Um, Music and Lyrics, if you haven't seen it, stars Hugh Grant as a former pop star who is, um, just looking to make any dollar he can. So he like, will go on like the nostalgia driven, like Ultimate Fighter shows for formerly famous people. He was basically supposed to have been in like Wham. And then he is writing a song for a new young pop star, like as if it was like Ariana Grande. And he can't write lyrics. He can only write melodies. So, so he's somehow paired up with Drew Barrymore. I won't get into the specifics, but it includes watering plants and a plastic plant.

• 1:44:03Speaker 05

  And they can't stand each other, but he needs her to write the lyrics for this song. And so they end up, uh, falling for each other while writing the song Way Back To You. And I don't know what doesn't sound good about that, Amanda. He explains music to her. He tells her about Smokey Robinson over coffee in the West Village. The New York geography makes no sense. It is a very 2007 movie featuring, uh, someone from Everybody Loves Raymond and somebody from Third Rock from the Sun. And of course Drew Barrymore and Hugh Grant. Um, I don't know. I think this is a great, great movie.

• 1:44:41Amanda Dobbins?

  This might be your blue because if we're going to include one film written and directed by Mark Lawrence, then it should be two weeks' notice, which came out in 2002 and stars Hugh Grant and Sandra Bullock, and which you and I have a real soft spot for.

• 1:44:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:44:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Even though it features incredibly bad, uh, office politics and also a cameo by a certain president.

• 1:45:03Speaker 05

  President.

• 1:45:04Amanda Dobbins?

  So this, Music and Lyrics is going to be your blue and we have a lot more to get through, so we're gonna, we're gonna keep moving fast. 27 Dresses, Katherine Heigl, 2008.

• 1:45:15Speaker 05

  It's in. I don't like this movie.

• 1:45:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I do also find it a little bit depressing. It's a, it's a woman who is kind of down on her luck and.

• 1:45:26Speaker 05

  It's the always a bride's may never a bride, old idiom that we should eradicate from our language.

• 1:45:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Quite literally, but it's a good idea for a movie and it was, it was pretty successful and it gets referenced a lot. This is also, you need a Katherine Heigl in the mix because as Katherine Heigl's star rises in the world of romantic comedies, so do the rise of all the other movies doing better at the box office. That's not fair. She does a couple, but she's kind of the last. She's the, the sign of, of trouble to come. Definitely maybe 2008.

• 1:46:01Speaker 05

  I have to tell you.

• 1:46:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:03Speaker 05

  I never finished this movie.

• 1:46:05Amanda Dobbins?

  So you don't know who is her mom?

• 1:46:08Speaker 05

  I don't know who he picked.

• 1:46:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:46:10Speaker 05

  Yeah. Who's the mom? It's the, this is the Abigail Breslin era.

• 1:46:13Amanda Dobbins?

  This is the Abigail Breslin era. I, I think I put this on the shortlist because Ryan Reynolds is the star and it's Ryan Reynolds telling his daughter the story of how he met her mother, but also telling her about three previous relationships he had in inappropriate detail. One of those relationships is Rachel Weisz, who's a political journalist at New York Magazine, and Rachel Weisz is my hero. And one of the more beautiful person, people in the world to me. So I just remember it because of this. And, but I think it doesn't meet the structural definitions and also you don't know how it ends. And it ends frankly, annoyingly. Okay. Forgetting.

• 1:46:53Speaker 05

  Do you want to tell me? I mean, I've been waiting since 2008 to find out.

• 1:46:57Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I think that there are some things that should remain a surprise to you, you know?

• 1:47:01Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:47:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Forgetting Sarah Marshall, 2008.

• 1:47:04Speaker 05

  Excellent movie. Obviously a rom com.

• 1:47:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. I think that this is a yes. So, and this is, this is a yes. This is the movie that Craig Horlbeck always cites as incredibly important to his generation, which is slightly younger than ours.

• 1:47:18Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:47:19Amanda Dobbins?

  But this brought, this brought some new people in to a dying genre.

• 1:47:23Speaker 05

  It's a great movie. I love Jason Segel. Who doesn't love Mila Kunis? It's really good.

• 1:47:28Amanda Dobbins?

  The Proposal, 2009. Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds. She's a publisher.

• 1:47:33Speaker 05

  Obviously a rom com. She's a publisher. He's her, or she's an editor and he's the assistant.

• 1:47:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:47:38Speaker 05

  Um, great movie featuring Betty White, Craig T. Nelson, Mary Steenburgen. Great cast, really good. Also Oscar from The Office, I believe. Great movie.

• 1:47:48Amanda Dobbins?

  And they need to get married.

• 1:47:49Speaker 05

  Obviously a rom com.

• 1:47:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Because she's getting, she needs a green card. Do you know how much money this movie made?

• 1:47:55Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:47:55Amanda Dobbins?

  $164 million. That is a tremendous amount of money domestic for a romantic comedy. This has never been one of my movies, but I do think that it's the last box office sensation and other people seem to enjoy it. And we didn't put Definitely Maybe in, so she would, we should have Ryan Reynolds on it.

• 1:48:15Speaker 05

  I agree with you. I think that also it's a good reminder of like the star power of Sandra Bullock, which I feel like I take for granted.

• 1:48:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:22Speaker 05

  But like, remember when that Bird Box movie came out on Netflix and it was like such a big deal? People just like, like her movies.

• 1:48:27Amanda Dobbins?

  They do. Practical Magic 2 coming this fall. Okay. Morning Glory, 2010. I think our shared most underrated romantic comedy.

• 1:48:39Speaker 05

  Completely.

• 1:48:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Of the last, and every once in a while, we can do one for us. I've recently got some feedback in the big picture mailbag that like I've made my case on this one.

• 1:48:49Speaker 05

  Morning Glory?

• 1:48:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, I have talked about Morning Glory on this podcast enough. And I've said the words fritata enough, just like that. It's Rachel McAdams, it's Patrick Wilson, Diane Keaton, Harrison Ford. There's.

• 1:49:02Speaker 05

  It's a great Hunter Boots movie.

• 1:49:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, that is when Hunter Boots were a real thing. And it's filmed in New York and she's running around Rockefeller Plaza trying to do whatever she is going to do. Didn't make a lot of money, but pretty wonderful. And this is our list, so I think we can put it in. We can do what we want.

• 1:49:19Speaker 05

  It's a great movie. I don't understand anyone who, who thinks otherwise. I also don't understand why people haven't seen it. So just, you know, sign up, everybody.

• 1:49:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. The next one, What's Your Number, 2011. I put this on the list because I met my husband outside of a screening for this movie. It stars.

• 1:49:33Speaker 05

  Oh, that's nice.

• 1:49:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it stars Anna Faris and Chris Evans, and it's an incredibly insulting film about how Anna Faris reads a women's magazine article about how you can only sleep with 20 people in your life or you can't get married or something. And she's on 19, so she has to go track down all of the people she had sex with. It's, uh, it's degrading and occasionally funny because Anna Faris is an incredibly gifted comedian. And then guess who her number 20 turns out to be? We don't have to put it in, but you know, it's, it's a piece of big picture history.

• 1:50:10Speaker 05

  Okay, that's beautiful.

• 1:50:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Silver Linings Playbook, 2012.

• 1:50:15Speaker 05

  I think that's a yes.

• 1:50:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I think so too.

• 1:50:18Speaker 05

  I like this movie. I'm not supposed to, I think, but I do like this movie.

• 1:50:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, well, the, the mental health stuff plus the David O. Russell conversation, but it launches Jennifer Lawrence more or less. I mean, this is her Oscar winning role and it's, does a lot for the city of Philadelphia and trash bags. And Bradley Cooper made a ton of money. I think it's a, it's a yes. I also, when I.

• 1:50:41Speaker 05

  It's a great movie.

• 1:50:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I asked my husband, I was like, what is your favorite rom com of the last 25 years? And Silver Linings Playbook was his answer. So there we go.

• 1:50:49Speaker 05

  It's very good.

• 1:50:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:50:50Speaker 05

  Agreed.

• 1:50:50Amanda Dobbins?

  All right. Enough Said, 2013. Directed and written by Nicole Hall of Center.

• 1:50:56Speaker 05

  I think she makes movies that are rom com adjacent and I understand why it's here, but I don't, I think this is a movie about adults navigating life. And I, and like navigating dating as old, like, you know, not even as older people, but it's like, you know, people who aren't 28 or supposed to be 28.

• 1:51:12Amanda Dobbins?

  You're completely right. And I don't think that it is, it meets our definition of a romantic comedy. I think it's one of the most wonderful films made in the last 25 years. I rewatched it. I recommend it. A beautiful James Gandolfini performance. Julia Louis-Dreyfus forever. Okay. So now we're in the, the type of movie is changing. The frequency of the movies is changing and certainly the box office is changing. So.

• 1:51:39Speaker 05

  I think this is sort of like the internet indie era almost.

• 1:51:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. So this is 2014, at which point the economics of a big budget studio romantic comedy starring movie stars is gone. We're not doing that anymore. Obvious Child. Directed by Gillian Ropes-Bear, starring Jenny Slate and Jake Lacy.

• 1:52:04Speaker 05

  Definitely a rom com.

• 1:52:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:52:05Speaker 05

  Also, one of the most unrealistic rom coms I've ever seen. Because Jake Lacy's character is like too perfect. Like only a woman would write Jake Lacy's character.

• 1:52:17Amanda Dobbins?

  But sometimes in a romantic comedy, you can have a real person. And I mean, that brings up the question of, is this more about the Jenny Slate character and what she's going to do and whether or not she's going to have an abortion and her own personal.

• 1:52:31Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 1:52:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Her personal decisions and sort of like a response to Knocked Up and with a romance alongside of it. The flip side is that I was out to dinner with two friends last night, asked them what their favorite romantic comedy of the last 25 years was, and they both said Obvious Child. So.

• 1:52:47Speaker 05

  I think I responded too quickly. I do think this is more of like a woman on a journey story with a cute, with a cute guy. And I think I just really like it. So that's why I was like, definitely.

• 1:52:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Wonderful movie.

• 1:52:56Speaker 05

  Okay. Yeah, it's wonderful, but I don't think it's in. It's out. I retract.

• 1:52:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:53:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Trainwreck, 2015. This was a Juliette suggestion and I thought that it was very, very wise.

• 1:53:08Speaker 05

  I think it's a rom com. It's not my favorite.

• 1:53:10Amanda Dobbins?

  It is.

• 1:53:11Speaker 05

  But it's a rom com.

• 1:53:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And I think the way that it resolves itself very much meets our definitions of a rom com, though its resolutions are what greets, what it's grading to me because they feel a little tidy and a little bit like putting the messy Amy Schumer, Schumer character in her place.

• 1:53:30Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:53:31Amanda Dobbins?

  And she.

• 1:53:33Speaker 05

  The Amy Schumer character is also like a real throwback to like the earlier of like the kind of like messier Jennifer Aniston style dress, like characters, like, you know, it's, it's also kind of condescending, but there's like some truth to it too. I also just think this movie is like a cultural touchstone. I feel like it, it was just such a big deal. LeBron being in a movie was so funny. I don't know. It was, it was a really big deal and it's, it follows all like the arc of it, of like a classic rom com perfectly.

• 1:54:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:54:02Speaker 04

  This used to be my favorite movie of all time because I saw it on a date in middle school with a girl I had zero chance with.

• 1:54:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow. How did the date go?

• 1:54:10Speaker 05

  Beautiful story.

• 1:54:11Speaker 04

  The date went well.

• 1:54:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:54:12Speaker 04

  But I was way more into her than she was into me. Nothing really happened, but I think I tweeted Trainwreck is the greatest movie of all time at like 14 years old. So that was pretty cool. So this is also a touchstone for me.

• 1:54:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Where, you want to weigh in on it now?

• 1:54:23Speaker 04

  Uh, I still like it.

• 1:54:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:54:25Speaker 05

  Is it a rom com?

• 1:54:26Speaker 04

  Yes, 100%.

• 1:54:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Because the conflict is really just about whether, A, whether she's being ethical in her job, which is a hard no, but B, whether or not she can be, you know, in a relationship and whether he can be in a relationship. And they are, they're not quite opposed, but they're also never really on the same page until the end. And her.

• 1:54:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Really cheesy romantic gesture. Also LeBron is great in this. Also this did, this made over $100 million, which like in 2015 for comedy, like for this genre is significant. So it was a hit. Judd Apatow directs Woman. Miracles happen. Let's do it. Okay, it's in.

• 1:55:06Speaker 05

  To his credit, he was like a major sponsor of Lena Dunham when girl started. I think he was the executive producer. And, you know, I just saw a headline about his daughter's movie finally being released after it was a hit at TIFF last year.

• 1:55:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, that's exciting. I haven't seen that.

• 1:55:22Speaker 05

  Well, maybe, maybe you will.

• 1:55:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:55:25Speaker 05

  Carry on.

• 1:55:26Amanda Dobbins?

  The Big Sick, 2017.

• 1:55:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Written by Emily V. Gordon and Kumail Nanjiani, who stars in it opposite Zoe Kazan, directed by Michael Showalter. This was nominated-

• 1:55:37Speaker 05

  Autobiographical, right?

• 1:55:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, and nominated for a screenwriting Oscar. A decent hit, made 42 million.

• 1:55:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think it was-

• 1:55:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Very funny, launched the Ray Romano meme about you go online, people hate Forrest Gump, I'd never go online.

• 1:55:56Speaker 05

  I love Ray Romano. He's so, he is such a good actor. I found this movie sad, and I think we tried to eradicate the illness from our rom-coms. I think this is more of a family movie than a rom-com.

• 1:56:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I think you're right that there is more drama, and it is very funny, but the, it's not light, and we have been, but then we're gonna get in really tricky territory. If we can't do anything sad for the rest of this list, then we won't have anything after-

• 1:56:32Speaker 05

  Anything good?

• 1:56:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, certainly not anything good, and I'm willing to give up on a lot of things, but I think this one was a big enough hit, and also being recognized by the Oscars in screenwriting is a big deal. Like, it was sort of a sensation.

• 1:56:47Speaker 05

  It also maybe is, is important to like, recognize the shift in what is a rom-com-

• 1:56:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:56:52Speaker 05

  In this, in this moment.

• 1:56:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, in terms of scale, in terms of how it's reduced and released and received, I think it's important, so I'm gonna fight for this one.

• 1:57:02Speaker 05

  Okay, alright.

• 1:57:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Next one, Set It Up, the big deal here at The Ringer, because it is set up at a company not unlike The Ringer, which existed when this film came out.

• 1:57:15Speaker 05

  I believe it was based on Grantland.

• 1:57:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:57:18Speaker 05

  Where they worked.

• 1:57:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, but by the time it was released, The Ringer existed.

• 1:57:23Speaker 05

  Written by Katie Silverman, who I believe went to Dartmouth, much like you.

• 1:57:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, and also wrote Booksmart, stars Zoe Deutsch and Glenn Powell. This is like Zoe Deutsch's first big Netflix movie, and she's still making them all those years later.

• 1:57:38Speaker 05

  She sure is. Um, I think this is a rom-com. I think this also like, really helped Glenn Powell. Like, I feel like people were really talking about him after this.

• 1:57:48Amanda Dobbins?

  And this is one of the first Netflix originals about adults that I remember other people talking about, being like, "Oh, did you see it? Set it up, pretty good." And I do feel even if we, now as we talk about all of the Netflix romantic comedies, which are of very, varying degrees of quality, we all say, "Yeah, but like, Set It Up was pretty good," so-

• 1:58:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, Set It Up was pretty good.

• 1:58:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:58:13Speaker 05

  And it, it also, it sort of like, takes the idea of Cher and Clueless setting up her teachers, and then sort of like, expands it in a way. Uh, and yeah, I think this is a, this is a rom-com.

• 1:58:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, great, and it can, and, and you think it's worthy of the canon?

• 1:58:31Speaker 05

  I do. I think it, similar to The Big Sick, I think it ushers in a new era of streaming rom-coms, which is where most rom-coms are now.

• 1:58:37Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. Fleabag, Season Two, written by Phoebe Waller-Bridge, starring Andrew Scott and Phoebe Waller-Bridge. This is a TV show, so-

• 1:58:45Speaker 05

  This is a TV show.

• 1:58:47Amanda Dobbins?

  And I do think that it's important to recognize the fact that some of our greatest romantic write, romantic comedy writing in the last 10 years has migrated to TV. And also Fleabag, and the other example that we'll get to, are concentrated enough that the runtime is not that much more than a feature-length film would be.

• 1:59:10Speaker 05

  Especially because Fleabag's only six episodes.

• 1:59:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. I do still think it's TV, and it can't technically go in, but it was also, it's complicated, and it's, the point is that they can't end up together, and that's what that's interrogating, but, you know. And they're not really like, opposed.

• 1:59:28Speaker 05

  Well, his faith makes them opposed.

• 1:59:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, sure.

• 1:59:31Speaker 05

  He's a priest.

• 1:59:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:59:33Speaker 05

  Uh, who gets to blend in.

• 1:59:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:36Speaker 05

  I think that it introduces Andrew Scott, even, because you know, season one with Phoebe Waller-Bridge was already around, and she, oh, so this was like, you know, at the Fringe, and Andrew Scott had been around too, right? Like, he was in Sherlock, which was a huge, huge hit in the UK, but I think it introduced him to like, a female audience in a different way, um, and like, really launched him as a heartthrob. He hasn't really done anything like, heartthrobish since, if I'm recalling correctly. Um, he's done a lot of stuff, and he's really successful, but this was sort of like, I don't know, just like, this is such a moment. Fleabag, Season Two is, is a moment. That's, I guess, the best way I can put it.

• 2:00:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And Hot Priest was a moment, and I think-

• 2:00:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:00:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Even 10 years earlier, it would be a movie, but-

• 2:00:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:00:19Amanda Dobbins?

  It was a TV show, so it can't go in.

• 2:00:21Speaker 05

  Alright, it's out.

• 2:00:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, Plus One, 2019, Jack Quaid and Maya Erskine. Did you see this one?

• 2:00:26Speaker 05

  I did. Another wedding-related movie. Um, I did not really enjoy it.

• 2:00:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:00:33Speaker 05

  I found it quite, quite boring. Um, I want to like Jack Quaid, uh, for his lineage, and also I like The Boys, but I was not into this.

• 2:00:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Maya Erskine dancing at the, at the first wedding that they go to is one of the funniest things that I've ever seen. Like, I stopped, because this was on Hulu, so I stopped my TV and rewound it to watch again. I don't think I've ever done that in a movie before, but it does not have to go in, because you weren't as enamored of it. Happiest Season 2020, speaking of Hulu. So we're in the COVID era now.

• 2:01:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're in COVID. This is a Christmas movie as well.

• 2:01:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:13Speaker 05

  Um, I liked this movie. I really clearly remember watching it. I think it's important. I think it should be in. It's also one of the only, like, non-straight movies we have in this conversation.

• 2:01:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Correct.

• 2:01:26Speaker 05

  And I think that makes it pretty important as well. Um, and it's, it was very charming. I really liked it.

• 2:01:32Amanda Dobbins?

  They technically are together at the beginning, and it's more about finding their way back to each other.

• 2:01:39Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:01:41Amanda Dobbins?

  But after family hijinks and insults ensue at Christmas, but you know, we do have precedent, the comedy of remarriage, which, you know, technically, in those, the people are divorced, but they're coming from a place, you know, you start together-ish, and then as long as you rediscover your love, then it works out. I mean, the real issue here is that everybody wanted, uh, Kristen Stewart to just run off with Aubrey Plaza.

• 2:02:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, totally.

• 2:02:08Amanda Dobbins?

  So, but in a way, that makes it interesting. We do have many other examples of there being a very compelling third person in the love triangle who's a man, so why can't, why can't we have a same-sex version? I agree. Happiest Season, really good one. Palm Springs is also a 2020 COVID Hulu situation, and I do think it has to go in.

• 2:02:30Speaker 05

  I think it has to go in. I also do not like this movie. I just wasn't, wasn't moved by it.

• 2:02:34Amanda Dobbins?

  You don't like Palm Springs, the place.

• 2:02:35Speaker 05

  I, just the idea of Palm Springs, I'm like, "Ugh, it's too bright. I need sunglasses." Just like, anything that's like, sundrenched is the pass for me.

• 2:02:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:43Speaker 05

  So I didn't really want, and a pool movie, a no thank you. Um, but I understand this was very popular, and people loved it.

• 2:02:49Amanda Dobbins?

  And very inventive and moved a lot of people, and I think it, it came out very early in COVID, and it sold for a lot of money at Sundance pre-COVID, and we all watched it and thought like, "Oh, maybe life isn't over, and also romantic comedies aren't over."

• 2:03:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:03:06Amanda Dobbins?

  They still kind of are, but whatever, great movie. It's going in. Starstruck, Season One, is a TV show, so by my own rule, it can't go in, but it is also two hours long. It's an inversion of Notting Hill, or it's a gender switch of Notting Hill, I should say. Um, written by Rose Matafeo, stars Rose Matafeo, the most delightful two hours you can spend.

• 2:03:26Speaker 05

  It's so good. It is so good. I just wanted to make a, make a plug for the other TV show that I was thinking of, but I dared not put on here, which is Lovesick on Netflix. I think it's on Netflix.

• 2:03:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, right, yeah.

• 2:03:37Speaker 05

  It's so good. I would just go straight to Season Three. It's very similar, if you're looking for the same vibe.

• 2:03:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Worst Person in the World, 2021. This-

• 2:03:45Speaker 05

  I did see this, Amanda. I'm happy to tell you. I liked it a lot, obviously.

• 2:03:48Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a wonderful movie. As I was making my rules for a romantic comedy, I realized that it doesn't really fit romantic comedy.

• 2:03:54Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:03:55Amanda Dobbins?

  It's more of a woman figuring things out about herself. Stars Renata-

• 2:03:58Speaker 05

  But it's great.

• 2:03:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Renata Rensva, and this is how most of us learned about Renata Rensva. Um, absolutely delightful movie. My favorite movie of 2021. Check it out, if you haven't seen it. Fire Island, 2022, still in COVID. This is, uh, written by Joel Kim Booster, directed by Andrew On, and it's, uh, it's gay Pride and Prejudice, and-

• 2:04:20Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:04:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Set on Fire Island, which is the, um, beach community-

• 2:04:24Speaker 05

  The titular island.

• 2:04:25Amanda Dobbins?

  The titular island and beach community outside of New York. Um, I thought this movie was very charming, and I still think that, they do a thing where they sing the, the Searchlight fanfare, um, like, to the screen or something when it opens, and every time I hear that now, I think of this movie. Um, I don't think it has to go in. It was smaller. I don't know how many people saw it, but-

• 2:04:48Speaker 05

  I did not see it. I'm aware of it. I did not see it.

• 2:04:50Amanda Dobbins?

  It was charming, and they, I mean, they talk about fiction and reading books in this movie, so that's good. Anyone But You, also directed by Will Gluck.

• 2:05:02Speaker 05

  I watched this on a plane.

• 2:05:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Starring Sydney Sweeney and Glenn Powell, yes.

• 2:05:05Speaker 05

  I think this, I watched this on a plane to meet you in London, if I recall correctly.

• 2:05:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, nice.

• 2:05:10Speaker 05

  Yes, um-

• 2:05:13Speaker 05

  I feel like the press tour for this movie eclipsed the movie itself. We got so much Sydney Sweeney and Glenn Powell. It is a good, solid movie. I enjoyed myself. It did well.

• 2:05:25Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not that good. It's not that good.

• 2:05:28Speaker 05

  If we're lowering our standards, it's in as almost like one of the only rom coms to get like a wide theatrical release.

• 2:05:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, and to be successful and make money. And they do also, if we're doing the Bridges test, I don't know if there's a bridge in Sydney Harbor, but they do have a major set piece. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Forgot that some of us on this podcast have been to Australia. They haven't.

• 2:05:52Speaker 05

  Thank you to United.

• 2:05:53Amanda Dobbins?

  They have a major set piece in Sydney Harbor with, that was filmed there. At least part of it was filmed there. It doesn't look totally fake. So it meets a lot of the criteria. I don't think Sydney Sweeney and Glenn Powell are well matched. There's not a lot of chemistry there beyond the sex scenes. That's another thing. This is as much a sex comedy as it is a romantic comedy. But I do think that it fits the rules and it made, it was so successful that we have to include it.

• 2:06:26Speaker 05

  Okay, I think you're right. It's canonical, but not good.

• 2:06:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Okay, there we go. Our, like, our standards can only take us so far. Rye Lane, 2024. Have you seen this?

• 2:06:38Speaker 05

  I have not.

• 2:06:39Amanda Dobbins?

  This is a wonderful, this is a much smaller movie. It's British, it's set in London, and it's a, it is a one night, you know, only type of movie of two people who meet wandering the streets and, and fall in love. It stars, it stars David Johnson, who you would recognize and then, and who has since been cast as the new Black Panther. So.

• 2:07:03Speaker 05

  Cool.

• 2:07:04Amanda Dobbins?

  It's lovely and I really liked it. It was a Sundance movie and I guess not enough people have seen it for it to go in the canon, but it's kind of like should be canon. Maybe this will be my blue.

• 2:07:16Speaker 05

  Okay, okay. You have music and lyrics. I have music and lyrics. You have Rye Lane.

• 2:07:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:07:22Speaker 05

  It's beautiful.

• 2:07:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. Okay, Enora? Is it a romantic comedy?

• 2:07:27Speaker 05

  I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen Enora.

• 2:07:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, well.

• 2:07:29Speaker 05

  I'm honestly ashamed.

• 2:07:30Amanda Dobbins?

  It won Best Picture. Jack?

• 2:07:32Speaker 05

  I know.

• 2:07:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Is Enora a romantic comedy according to our definitions?

• 2:07:36Speaker 04

  I think so, right? They're not together at the start.

• 2:07:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, who's they?

• 2:07:41Speaker 04

  Mark, oh, interesting. Very interesting. You're saying you're a Burasov?

• 2:07:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:47Speaker 04

  Oh, I was thinking through Mark Edelstein.

• 2:07:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, sure, but they get together and then the movie, if, if it's Mark Edelstein, then it's not a romantic comedy because that doesn't end well. Spoiler alert, Juliette, this is a wonderful film.

• 2:07:59Speaker 05

  I, I am gonna see it, just to be clear. And I also just want everyone to know, I'm, I, like, tonight, I have to watch like six to eight hours of reality TV. It's, I watch more movies, I just don't have time.

• 2:08:09Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I know. So I think that this is more, this is a comedy and also a drama that uses a lot of screwball comedy and screwball comedy references, which are a big part of certainly the first, the earliest romantic comedies and has romance in it, but it doesn't, it's not a tradition. It's not just a romantic comedy.

• 2:08:32Speaker 04

  No, I agree. I also think it has some of the same reasons you put Big Sick in, where it's like, this is a different version of the romantic comedies we've been getting. It got recognized by the Academy. I, I would personally have it in because it's also a wonderful movie.

• 2:08:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And it did, I mean, it won Best Picture. It's really stupid to not claim it for the romantic comedy genre. It's great. I'm putting it in. I loved it. It was, it was my favorite movie of 2024. Pillion, 2025. This is the dom com.

• 2:09:00Speaker 05

  You recommended it to me so many times.

• 2:09:02Amanda Dobbins?

  This is wonderful, written and directed by Harry Lighton, written with Adamars Jones, stars Harry Melling, Alexander Skarsgård. This is, this actually though, if we're going by our own rules, and even though the, the very neat catchphrase dom com is there, it is, ultimately, it's about a young man discovering himself. And then he is discovering how he wants to be loved. I know, but Jack is making a face at me in the booth.

• 2:09:31Speaker 04

  I think it's definitely a romantic comedy. I'd argue it's more of a romantic comedy than Enora.

• 2:09:36Amanda Dobbins?

  So, well, okay. So I guess at this point, we have to decide with our list and with this last portion of our list, which is about the ways in which the romantic comedy had to change. And it cannot meet our original standards and survive, then, like, how flexible can we be? I, because I kind of agree, like, Pillion is right there and it is so wonderful.

• 2:10:02Speaker 05

  It's your podcast and your list and Sean's not here, so do what you want.

• 2:10:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Jack?

• 2:10:06Speaker 05

  But.

• 2:10:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Go, oh, but, uh-oh. Go ahead.

• 2:10:10Speaker 05

  If the, if a genre is dead, then the genre is just dead. Like, I don't know. Do, is it gonna evolve and adapt? I'm not sure it's going to. It's gonna be a different kind of movie. And there's all these movies that are like adjacent to it, but aren't quite the same.

• 2:10:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, but there is also a movie that uses the tropes of a genre so specifically to comment on it. Is, I still think of the genre, even though it's trying to do something new. So I think, I mean, this, this is, this is about a guy who gets into a dom relationship, a sub dom relationship with Alexander Skarsgård, and it is about their relationship. And then what happens? And it has this magical last scene. No, it has to be. Okay, it's going in.

• 2:10:56Speaker 05

  It sounds like a rom com from what you just described.

• 2:10:58Amanda Dobbins?

  We're breaking, we're breaking our own rules. And, and like the relationship and the nature of their romance or what the definition of romance is between them is the text of the movie. Okay. My last pitch is just being cute, and I've been saying this all year. The Drama, 2026, which I do actually think is a rom com. It is probably more.

• 2:11:19Speaker 05

  I plan to watch this, too.

• 2:11:20Amanda Dobbins?

  It's more a romantic comedy of remarriage because they are together and then some hijinks ensue, but it's set around a wedding. It uses so many of the tropes and the structure and even the final beat of the romantic comedy is, is set up and lands perfectly. There's a, there's a dance element to it. There are friends. There's a really, really bad best friend, speaking of, but, but she's supposed to be bad because she's sending it up. So I think that there's a case to put the drama in here, just, just to be cute. I would put it in over One Night Only, which I think is a more traditional romantic comedy and very fun, but.

• 2:12:05Speaker 05

  It's not gonna be canon.

• 2:12:06Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not canon.

• 2:12:08Speaker 05

  It's interim, as you've said at the very beginning, the, the plot, the setup is interchangeable.

• 2:12:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Okay, so that leaves us with 23 movies, which is for 25 years.

• 2:12:20Speaker 04

  Wait, are we counting the drama?

• 2:12:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I'm putting it in because Sean's not here, but my pot and pan are. Do you feel okay with that, Jack?

• 2:12:30Speaker 04

  I do. The only counter, I think, is that they're not opposed at the start, but otherwise I, I agree. And it's also a wonderful movie.

• 2:12:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but they, they're separated pretty quickly by.

• 2:12:40Speaker 04

  This is true.

• 2:12:40Amanda Dobbins?

  The revelation and, and like the, the drama, the, the drama of the drama is them, can they find their way back to each other or should they?

• 2:12:49Speaker 04

  It's also a fun example of a movie that goes against your rule of movies that start with weddings are good and movies that end in weddings are bad.

• 2:12:56Amanda Dobbins?

  That's Sean's wedding.

• 2:12:57Speaker 04

  But it's the flip of it in that it is, I, I personally think how it, the wedding at the end is a good use of it.

• 2:13:03Amanda Dobbins?

  It's really, really funny. Juliette, you'll like that movie.

• 2:13:05Speaker 05

  Okay, I'm gonna, I'm definitely gonna see it eventually.

• 2:13:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna read the list very quickly in my movie phone voice and then.

• 2:13:11Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:13:12Amanda Dobbins?

  And then I'll release you. Okay.

• 2:13:14Speaker 05

  No release necessary. Honored to be here.

• 2:13:17Amanda Dobbins?

  The 21st century rom com canon as decreed by Juliette Littman and Amanda Dobbins with support from Jack Sanders. Bridget Jones' Diary, The Wedding Planner, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, Sweet Home Alabama, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, Something's Gotta Give, Hitch, Wedding Crashers, Knocked Up, 27 Dresses, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, The Proposal, Morning Glory, Silver Linings Playbook, Trainwreck, The Big Six, Set It Up, Happiest Season, Palm Springs, Anyone But You, Enora, Pillion, and The Drama. I don't know why, I don't know why I needed to do that.

• 2:13:50Speaker 05

  Our two personal endorsements.

• 2:13:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Go ahead.

• 2:13:52Speaker 05

  Let's bring us to a clean 25. Rye Lane from Amanda and music and lyrics from me. That's 25 movies. That's great.

• 2:14:00Amanda Dobbins?

  One for each year. Yeah. I, that seems appropriate in summation, but it's felt like a real desert living it. I would love more than one a year.

• 2:14:10Speaker 05

  Well, we do have a gap from 2020 to 2023. There's some other gaps in here from 2012 to 2015. We need more.

• 2:14:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:19Speaker 05

  We need more and we need them to not be just released on Netflix or thought of as a Netflix movie. Give us more. That's all I can say.

• 2:14:26Amanda Dobbins?

  All right. That's it. This has been two hours. Juliette, thank you truly. I think it's been over two hours. That's fine. Juliette, thank you for coming.

• 2:14:34Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:14:35Amanda Dobbins?

  To discuss our most beloved shared topic.

• 2:14:40Speaker 05

  So many movies that make me smile.

• 2:14:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you to Jack Sanders, our producer, for his work on this episode and also for some crucial insight on Trainwreck and his 14 year old dating life. I mean that positively. Listen, this is how we learn and grow. Thank you to Sarah Reddy for her production support. I am now going on vacation. This is, this is my time. This is me hitting the vacation bell. But Sean will be back next week. We're trading and Sean is going to do a mailbag episode. You can send mailbag questions to [email protected] and don't send them for me because I won't be here. But I hope you guys have a great time. Juliette, thank you again and I, I will see you guys on the other side.

• 2:15:42Speaker 06

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