Episode 404: Liron Kayvan on ADD: Misdiagnosis, Overmedication and Strategies for Channeling it for Success

Is ADD a superpower or an excuse? In this Fitness Friday episode, fitness expert Liron Kayvan and I dive deep into this controversial topic, exploring the rising trend of ADD diagnoses and the potential impact on individuals and society. We discuss misdiagnosed and overmedicated children, instant gratification culture and its effect on mental health. We dive into social media's role in exacerbating ADD-like symptoms. We also discuss the mismatch between human nature and the modern environment and share strategies for channeling ADD productively. Liron Kayvan founded BFLA in 2019. He's a NASM Certified Group Fitness Instructor, Personal Trainer, and Transformative Life Coach. Liron has competed in Amateur MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Rugby and has been a Fitness Coach for over 10 years. What we discuss: ADD: Misdiagnosis, overmedication, and the potential to be a superpower The impact of labeling and using labels as an excuse for behavior The rise of therapy and medication among children Instant gratification culture and its effect on mental health Social media's role in exacerbating ADD-like symptoms The importance of delayed gratification and resilience Obsession and the difference between being obsessed with the craft vs. the results The mismatch between human nature and the modern environment Strategies for channeling ADD productively and developing coping skills Thank you to our sponsors: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com http://therasage.com/ and use code Be Bold for 15% off TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com http://truniagen.com/ and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www http://www/.magicmind.com http://magicmind.com//jen and use code Jen at checkout. BiOptimizers: Want to try Magnesium Breakthrough? Go to https://bioptimizers.com/jennifercohenand use promo code JC10 at checkout to save 10% off your purchase. Timeline Nutrition: Get 10% off your first order at timeline.com/cohen http://timeline.com/cohen Air Doctor: Go to http://airdoctorpro.com/airdoctorpro.com http://airdoctorpro.com/ and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements Find more about Liron Kayvan: Website: https://www.beyondfitnessla.com/ Instagram: @beyondfitnessla https://www.instagram.com/beyondfitnessla/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, this is Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:07Jen Cohen?

  Hey friends, you're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle Podcast, where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up.

• 0:29Jen Cohen?

  Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor Therasage. Their Trillight panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles

• 1:08Jen Cohen?

  on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therasage Trillight everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to therasage.com right now and use code BBOULDS for 15% off. This code will work site-wide. Again, head over to therasage, T-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E.com and use code BBOULDS for 15% off any of their products.

• 1:52Jen Cohen?

  Okay, hi guys. Welcome to Fitness Friday. And I have my special guest today is Lyron. And hello, Lyron. Lyron is a soccer player slash fitness trainer who is someone I always work out, well, I used to work out with you. Did I ever really?

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:10Jen Cohen?

  We talk about fitness a lot.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  We talk mostly about fitness and mostly about just other stuff in general. Actually, we don't. That's probably only five percent of our conversations are about fitness.

• 2:18Jen Cohen?

  Oh, my God. You know what? That's actually true. I don't even think we actually do talk about fitness.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Very little. We just gloss over it and carry on.

• 2:25Jen Cohen?

  Which is funny because I like.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  When we do, we record it, you know?

• 2:28Jen Cohen?

  Well, we do. I was gonna say, usually, like, we actually only talk about it during these, like, Fitness Friday episodes. We don't really talk about it, like, outside of the Fitness Friday episodes.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's important to have a life, too.

• 2:40Jen Cohen?

  Good point.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Balance.

• 2:41Jen Cohen?

  Balance. Okay, first of all, balance is not, it's such a misnomer. I don't even think balance exists.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  No, it doesn't. But it's something you can strive towards, but I don't think ever you ever actually get it.

• 2:52Jen Cohen?

  Hmm. I just think that when you put that pressure on yourself, that, oh, we have to strive for balance, balance, balance, that that word, balance.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:01Jen Cohen?

  It gives people anxiety, like, oh, shit, I'm not balanced.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Am I balanced? Yeah. Have I got, am I, yeah. Is my work-life balance perfect? Am I playing enough? Am I working enough? Like, no, yeah. You're never in that state.

• 3:12Jen Cohen?

  It never happens.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  You're always unbalanced in some way.

• 3:15Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think anything that you, I like, I don't know, maybe this isn't for everybody, but for me, when I like something, I go so far into it. And I'm so hyper-focused that, like, there is no such thing as balance.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  I think most successful people have that, too. They get a little bit obsessed about things.

• 3:31Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  It's like a healthy obsession.

• 3:33Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think a part of it, too, is I probably have a little bit of OCD in general, to be honest. And ADD, the combo of ADD and OCD makes you hyper-focused on and become obsessed. Like, I believe anything you want to be really good at, you have to have a level of obsession and audacity. The combination of obsession and audacity is very, very necessary.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  This is your next book, Joe.

• 4:02Jen Cohen?

  Maybe. Maybe.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  How to succeed with ADD.

• 4:06Jen Cohen?

  How to succeed. Well, I think that ADD is a precursor for obsession, right?

• 4:10Speaker 02

  There's actually a study, sorry to interrupt, but there was a study that said that there's a gene for ADD. And what they found is that that gene. When you look at like primitive people like tribesmen and you know, people cavemen essentially like modern day hunter gatherers. That gene made them really good at hunting and gathering. So it was actually very adaptive gene and it made them very successful in their tribe. It's like G N P four O three, you know what I mean? It's a very specific gene. That is either associated or causes A D D. So they have mapped this out. They they can see where A D D is in the brain and some people are predisposed towards it. But that was adaptive, meaning that was beneficial in our natural environment.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  It's only in the modern school system and so on and so forth where it becomes like bad, maladaptive.

• 5:01Jen Cohen?

  That's so interesting because for the longest, like first of all, if you really look at people who have A D D. Most of the people who have that I know who have A D D grew up. They may have been really bad students because they didn't they didn't thrive in that academic school environment. But they thrived in in like their entrepreneurial endeavors, their career and other things. Like it actually work like to me, A D D is like a superpower, right? Like, does it like hinder my life with terms of administrative work and getting shit done operationally? Yes, but if I didn't have my A D D-ness, I wouldn't have been able to have gone as far as I've gone.

• 5:42Jen Cohen?

  Because when you have it and you find something that you're super in love with or obsessed with or passionate about. You're able to like focus so highly on that thing and go so into it. And it it you basically like supersede all these other things because of it.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Do you think that you get bored easily?

• 6:01Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  And do you think that's a good thing?

• 6:03Jen Cohen?

  No.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:04Jen Cohen?

  I think there's pros and cons to both. Me being bored easily has pushed me to be able to, you know, seek and and be curious to find and do other things. But it's also hindered me and hurt me in other things where probably being a little bored would have helped me, right? Like, you know what happens a lot with people like me, where people who have A D D? You start a lot of things and you don't finish them, right? That's a big thing, right? Or, you know, relationships, like you are like super like into it. And then you like kind of lose interest because it's like now not as exciting because like unless something keeps the excitement up.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:45Jen Cohen?

  I'm just being honest.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  No, no, for sure.

• 6:47Jen Cohen?

  It's just part, I think that's kind of part, part of like being ADD, right? I don't know.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  I, I don't know, I'm not ADD.

• 6:53Jen Cohen?

  Oh, excuse me, sorry.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  I, I don't really know too much about it, to be honest with you, aside from what I just told you before, but I think.

• 7:01Jen Cohen?

  Oh, so you just had like a factoid that you said.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Just whip it out.

• 7:06Jen Cohen?

  Listen, I'm no expert on it. I'm also self diagnosed. I think people like use the word ADD and they throw it around super loosely now, like.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm ADD, oh, I'm OCD, oh, I'm.

• 7:17Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, like, oh, I'm so ADD, I can't do that.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Like right now about this thing, yeah.

• 7:21Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, like I think, I, I think most people who think they're ADD, and by the way, I'm not even excluding myself from this, you know, are probably not ADD. Right? And like you said earlier, I think that like before in time, it was not like something that was so focused on, but now everyone's focused on it. It's such a trending word.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:42Jen Cohen?

  And it's also an excuse for people sometimes to kind of be less than, or to not work as hard, or to be, like, people use it as a crutch.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Kind of like the horoscope, someone's like, oh, I'm Capricorn, so I do X, Y, Z, and they just like excuse it off, like they have to take responsibility for it. Cause they la, they've labeled it, oh, I'm this, I'm sorry, I'm this, I can't do this.

• 8:03Jen Cohen?

  Exactly. I think that the problem is when you label anything, then you can fall on that, on that title or label to excuse bad behavior. You know, like I just did it myself. I'm like, well, because I'm ADD, like I lose interest in that. And that's not a good thing, right?

• 8:17Speaker 02

  But you, you also recognize that that part of your identity doesn't encapsulate who you are as a person. Like it's an aspect of your personality and you don't let it, you still take responsibility for your life. I think the problem is that we get labeled with anything, literally anything, like. It could be ADD, but it could also be your political affiliation, it could be your horoscope, it could be your ethnicity, it could be anything. Like we sometimes take our labels too seriously and they make, we make it our whole self. And then it becomes a problem, usually.

• 8:46Jen Cohen?

  Well, what do you think about children who are now being put on medication for ADD at 10 years old, eight years old?

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Does anyone think that's good, apart from the people who are giving the medications?

• 8:58Jen Cohen?

  I mean, I think it's

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Great for Big Pharma, it's fantastic for Big Pharma.

• 9:01Jen Cohen?

  It's great for Big Pharma. You know what, though? Like, I have a problem with it. Because I think, you know, I think it's a problem when you start, when you, when you put a child on medication. Um, especially because like you're dimming the things that can, that make them who they are. And then they get reliant on this medication and then that's a medication they're going to be on for forty, fifty, sixty, eighty years. And anything that you put yourself on medication wise, your body becomes acclimated and then you have to constantly up the dose. So why, the fact that you start children on something like that for a thing that may or may not even be, you know, because for a thing that actually could have really benefited them in real life.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:40Jen Cohen?

  Right? I think though, I'm actually shocked at how many people have, are putting their children on ADHD medication at a really young age. Because that's like what, I don't know if it's just an LA thing or what, but like, I think what's happening is all these kids are now going to therapy, like really young. When parents don't know how to like, parent their children, they're like, I'm gonna take them to a therapist. And then the therapist, you know, diagnoses them with ADD or ADHD. And then like the next thing is like, well, they should be on medication for it. And that becomes like the slippery slope. Where then that becomes who that child is, that becomes who the children identify as. And then that's their crutch for anything in life.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've seen that. I could actually think of someone very specific who is a younger person, twenty, about to be, be twenty one. And um, they do that all the time. They, they make their labels their identity. And it, I can see it limits them tremendously in life, but they also use it as a crutch to just get out of things. Oh, I'm, I'm ADD, oh, I'm XYZ. And they, you can see they're using it in a way that I think they think it's to their advantage. But you can see clearly, this is like really limiting this person.

• 10:55Jen Cohen?

  I also think it's become much more. Common now than it was before, like when I was a kid, right?

• 11:02Speaker 02

  Because of the diagnoses.

• 11:04Jen Cohen?

  The diagnosis have become more common, taking children therapies much more common, like instead of like, kind of like, kind of, like, instead of just kind of like figuring it out on your own and like just kind of, you know, understand or trying to create coping skills and coping mechanisms by going through challenges and difficult times. The go to now is like, oh, I'm gonna just, I'm gonna take my kid to a therapist and let them deal with it. And then talk it through and talk it out and talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:35Jen Cohen?

  Too much talking.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:36Jen Cohen?

  Too much of this emotional ability to kind of like keep on like.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Especially going into the past as well, like a lot of times they'll go into the past and they'll say, well, why are you this way and why are you that way? And it goes back and it's, you know, you're talking about something that happened when you're three. And I.

• 11:49Jen Cohen?

  No, but I'm talking about these kids who are super young, like who are not even like they're prepubescent kids. Who are like, are in therapy, like once to five times, once to three times a week, like to feel their feelings. Which I really believe is the opposite of what you should be doing. Like, I think when you feel your feelings to that extent, it's actually could be detrimental. And it also ends up make the, it's making the kid ruminate on these things and problems that they may have.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:19Jen Cohen?

  Versus just like, kind of like moving through them. Because at that age, like, yeah, you'll have a problem, but if you're not focused on it, the kid will eventually like, like, focus on something else or do something else. And as opposed to like, just like this hyper focus on like what your issue is and who you are badly or not badly like. People are just, are too, like, I guess it's part of like the culture we're in, like, which is like this coddle culture of like, you're so scared of doing X and Y. And so you just bring in like an, an expert or a therapist or, you know, you don't want, you want to give them a safe space. Or you don't like that trigger and all these things.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  I think it speaks really, when you're talking about kids, it looks like the kid is the one with the problem. But really it speaks to the fact that the parent is the one with the problem. The parent has, has, is getting exacerbated, has given up, doesn't know the solution to the problem. And, and I don't think ninety nine percent of the, of the parents I know are doing what they think is best for the kid. They just feel like they've run out of options. So I think it's really more about, it says more about the parent than it does about the actual child.

• 13:25Jen Cohen?

  So again, though, the other thing I think is interesting is like, therapy is expensive. So is this kind of just like,

• 13:31Speaker 02

  First world problem.

• 13:32Jen Cohen?

  Is it like a first world problem?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 13:34Jen Cohen?

  It's like, hey, you know, I have excess money. I'm just gonna throw, throw it to a therapist for two, three hundred dollars. Because let's not even talk about the fact that no one takes insurance anymore. That's a whole other problem, right? Like, no one is taking insurance. So this is all out of pocket expenses usually.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:49Jen Cohen?

  And so like, yeah, if you have the extra money, like, why not? I'll just do that. But the average Joe doesn't have two, three hundred bucks to throw to therapist for their kids.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Which might be beneficial because then they don't,

• 13:59Jen Cohen?

  Yes.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  They don't dwell on these problems. They just go, well, you're gonna have to just get on with your life. And that, in some situations, in many situations, is probably the best thing to do.

• 14:07Jen Cohen?

  One hundred, that's exactly what I think. I mean, like, I don't know, like, I, I really keep on saying this, but I, I feel like I belong in a different era, at a different, in a different time. Like, I wanna go back to living in nineteen ninety six.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  I like that, right? I do, I do too. I do too, a lot of much for that, right?

• 14:24Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. And where, you know, I just, I was forced to be bored. No one was like, over scheduling my life. And I wasn't told I have to go see a therapist because I'm emotionally like, irregulated, when it's just me being mad that I didn't get the toy I wanted, right? Or whatever it is. I think like, less is more.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:45Jen Cohen?

  You know?

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 14:47Jen Cohen?

  But just to kind of wrap up on this ADD thing, I find it interesting because I, it's not just kids. I also think it's obviously adults.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:55Jen Cohen?

  And even I said, oh yeah, I think I have ADD. Like I said, I'm self diagnosed. But I always, I wanna really kind of hammer home the point that I think whoever you are, whatever you have, you can make that work for yourself and make that your superpower. So if you are somebody who, you know, does have ADD and like, has trouble focusing, you know, that can work to your advantage too. Like, everything can work to your advantage.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 15:19Jen Cohen?

  It's all but how you frame it in your head and how you reframe it, right? Like, nobody's better or worse than anybody. The only thing that actually, actually like, makes the difference or like, moves the needle, is action. Like, taking action, doing something.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. Hundred percent. You always wanna validate who you are and what you are and and accept it. And then you're gonna be in your power. And then you're gonna be able to, you're gonna do things differently from it. Everyone's gonna be different. But this idea that like, I'm this way and that's bad, you know, nobody, I don't think that anybody thrives from that. I think whatever you are, if you're ADD, whatever, and we're talking about it like loosely, we're talking about clinically ADD necessarily, but like-

• 16:00Jen Cohen?

  Well, we're not doctors. It's just like what we're seeing in like societal,

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:04Jen Cohen?

  you know, and in social media and all the things.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  But it is, I mean, I mean, we, we know about like TikTok brain and stuff like that. We do know that social media is hijacking the dopamine system and making people more ADD. And like, I don't think anyone is debating that. So as a society, we are becoming more ADD.

• 16:24Jen Cohen?

  Well, that's funny you say that, cause it's true. I think that even if we aren't some, we were not, we may have not been that way, but our brains have become

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:33Jen Cohen?

  so used to like these instant gratifications, no delayed gratification, instant hits of dopamine, where we're-

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Without, without working for it. So in nature, you would have to work for every reward you got. You wouldn't, you'd very rarely get like a big, fast dopamine hit without having to like put in some effort, which I know you're all about effort, right?

• 16:56Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, I am.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  You're all about striving and being bold and, and taking action towards something and not just having things delivered to you on a plate. Like, we think we want that, but that's not, that's not what we want. It's not what's good for us to be just delivered something. And that's probably the ultimate first world problem is we are given things too easy. Our life is too easy. And so we find a way to make it hard because we're, it interferes with our wiring, interferes with how we were meant to be. We were meant to take action and strive and have delayed gratification.

• 17:28Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  There's a big mismatch.

• 17:29Jen Cohen?

  I think there's a direct correlation between delayed gratification and your ultimate happiness. Right. Cause when you have to work for something and like see it through and and develop patience. Right. And once you get it, you feel so much more satiated and like that you earned it.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  And it lasts that that satisfaction lasts a lot longer.

• 17:51Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think overall, like the feeling of I feeling that you earned it versus just got it. Cause it came too easy. You it's like more precious to you. You like actually, I think that you just, you really kind of appreciate it more.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. You work with um, work with you. You know, a lot of celebrities, um, like Hollywood types.

• 18:14Jen Cohen?

  I don't know. It depends. I guess I know a few.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, have you noticed that that is quite common amongst the Hollywood types? Cause they're very, I, when I first moved to LA, I worked in Hollywood just a little bit and I observed them. And they're an interesting bunch.

• 18:29Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  They're an interesting bunch, but I think maybe there's, there's quite a bit with that because they get so much fame and money and love and like these unnatural amounts of adoration that we wouldn't again be wired towards. And they get it so fast. And I'm not saying they don't deserve it because a lot of them were going to get rejection after rejection after rejection. You know, like going to casting calls and.

• 18:53Jen Cohen?

  No, but most people don't deserve it. And I think that's why most of these people are fucked up.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:57Jen Cohen?

  Is because they have no real sense of reality anymore. Right. It's just like.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  They do seem quite deluded after a while, especially if they've been famous for a while.

• 19:06Jen Cohen?

  Time. I think it also depends on when you get famous. If you got famous really early on in life, it's really a problem.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:13Jen Cohen?

  Because then.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  You grew up with that.

• 19:15Jen Cohen?

  You grew up with that fame. And so it distorts your idea of what's real.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Michael Jackson or.

• 19:20Jen Cohen?

  Right. Like Britney Spears, Michael Jackson. I mean, these people like have had like crazy experiences with life because it's so pseudo reality. It's not real. If you're somebody who worked really hard and had a lot of failure and had to be resilient and had. To kind of get back up over and over again. And so then when you finally found success, when when they finally found success, it really meant something. Those people are much more normal.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  So that speaks, I think that speaks again. So I think that speaks again to what you were saying about like validating where you're at, like if someone is not, hasn't made it in whatever avenue they're talking about, whether it's business or a relationship or family or, you know, fitness or whatever it is, money. The fact that it's taking a lot longer for them could actually be a good thing.

• 20:12Jen Cohen?

  It is a good thing. Cause like we just finished saying, like instant gratification. If you just like, if you came out to LA and you hit the first movie you got, like you came off the boat or the bus from Ohio and you got the first movie or first gig and then boom, you're super famous. It's probably not so great for your psyche, right?

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:30Jen Cohen?

  But if you actually got here and like you like tried out for a movie, you didn't get it. And then you're like, oh shit. Okay. I gotta, I gotta go through the grind and I have to do all these auditions and I have to, I have to get, I have to be rejected over and over and over again. When you finally get the opportunity and you succeed, you're like, wow. And you appreciate it more. But I will say there's something to be said for people who like, who are like a glutton for punishment also, right? Like you must, I think there are different types, right? There are people who just want to be famous for the sake of being famous because they like, they think it's glamorous, which are like a whole other group of people that I don't really have much to do with. But then there are other people who are truly like really talented and like they have, like they've, they've

• 21:13Jen Cohen?

  honed their craft, they work on their craft, they like practice, they have like, they have like coaches and all these things to get better. That's like a different mindset, right?

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Saying, you're saying there's a difference between people who's, who's obsessed with their craft versus obsessed with the results and the rewards of the craft.

• 21:31Jen Cohen?

  I think the people who are doing it for the right reasons, who they become is very different than the people who just do it for fame. The problem is anybody can be famous today, right? Like if you have a big social media account. I know a lot of these people who just like buy 10 million followers. Right? And then they leverage this fake number to become famous and like they have a whole team around this whole facade. That's not even real. And then people don't do their homework and they think, oh, this person, this girl has really 11 million followers. Okay, I'll give her this or I'll let her into that. And they get access to things that they otherwise wouldn't have got access to. But they didn't. Not only did they not earn it, they bought it. And then they're

• 22:16Jen Cohen?

  working the system.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:17Jen Cohen?

  Which is

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Cheating the system.

• 22:18Jen Cohen?

  The totally cheating the system. But this is the world we're living in now. Like, anybody can do that.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  That's kind of what we're talking about in general. Like, my philosophy on basically all problems is that there's a mismatch between how we were meant to be, how we're naturally wired, and our environment. And that's the same with mental health problems, the same with physical health problems, the same way. But I think all of that is really, all these issues come from trying to kind of cheat the system. Like, again, try to get rewards for not doing the work in the first place.

• 22:49Jen Cohen?

  Right, they're all hacks. These are all like hacks, like, you know, not biohack, like biohacks, but kind of like these like life hacks that you're doing. Like, life hacks are kind of like cheating the system, right? Because you're trying to like find these shortcuts into getting from point A to point B.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  And that might be a hollow victory. Maybe you're not prepared for that level of success.

• 23:08Jen Cohen?

  It's a hollow victory.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe you're not going to be able to sustain that, so.

• 23:12Jen Cohen?

  But here comes the other, we can go on about this, that most, a lot of people don't care because they don't have the self-awareness to know any different. So, you know, they don't mind hollow victories because they're hollow.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:23Jen Cohen?

  Right? So then it comes down to like, right? Like, this is like a rabbit hole, right? But like, I find all of it to be just where we're going as a society in this way is not the right way.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  No, it's not. But definitely like

• 23:38Jen Cohen?

  For people to be truly happy and fulfilled and satiated.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Clearly not. I mean, if you look at younger, younger people, it's, it's depressing how much they're depressed, how easily they're depressed, how anxious they are and how it's kind of a horrible thing to say about them, but how weak they are, you know, to a lot, to a large degree when you, you, but you

• 23:56Jen Cohen?

  Soft, fragile.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Fragile. Snowflakes, yada, yada, yada.

• 23:59Jen Cohen?

  I just did last Friday, I did a TED Talk, it's not out yet, or maybe it will be out by the time we do this part, by the time this is loaded, about how we are breeding a generation of soft, fragile people, the gen like Gen Z is much more fragile than our generation was. Because we're not giving them the tools to be strong mentally or otherwise. And it's, it is going to be the demise of our society and culture and life because of this problem. And we're feeding into the problem unless we put a stop to it. I think that social media, I think that screens, I think both of those, social media and screen are the main culprits.

• 24:42Jen Cohen?

  I think cultural culture is a major problem when we are.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Brainwashing too, like I feel like they have next to, again, I'm being harsh. And there's, there's definitely smart kids out there, but a lot of them seem to have no critical thinking capability whatsoever. And we'll just literally eat whatever's in front of them, you know?

• 25:00Jen Cohen?

  Well, only because we're, they're being told, like they're on TikTok, they're on, they're on Instagram. And they're are, they are looking at these influencers and they're, they think, oh, this person says that eating this is what's going to get me to the goal I want. Or that's what they're doing. It's cool. Like that Bieber shake, you know, that $25 shake that everyone that Hailey Bieber has?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:24Jen Cohen?

  You know what? I'm thinking to myself, who can afford a $25 shake, right? Like it's expect, that's crazy expensive.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Especially because the type of person who's going to be drinking it shouldn't have that, you know, probably doesn't have.

• 25:35Jen Cohen?

  Number one is all sugar, but that's a whole other problem. But like for 25 bucks, you can go get like a real amazing meal at like a, a nice restaurant.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  For two.

• 25:44Jen Cohen?

  Right, for two. I get a great chicken kebab, I can get salad, I can get my potato. But no, people are going and they're, by the way, they're, they're going there in droves. It's not like it's like, you know, straggling in one at a time. There is a lineup. And like, I can't make this up. Like no matter what time I go to Air One, like I won't even shop there at a principal alone, but I'll drive by.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  I don't get, I don't get who shops there. I mean, if you're going to pick up one or two things or get lunch, I understand. Like, who's doing that grocery shopping in here?

• 26:09Jen Cohen?

  Okay, by the way, have you been to Arrow One?

• 26:11Speaker 02

  I have, from time to time, yeah.

• 26:13Jen Cohen?

  Okay, I will tell you.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Packed every time I go.

• 26:15Jen Cohen?

  Packed?

• 26:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:16Jen Cohen?

  I'm talking in the morning, I'm talking late at night, I'm talking in the middle of the afternoon. Who has the money to spend on that place? I'm a working person and I still feel like it's so crazy expensive that I can't afford it, okay? You see the people who go there, they're like young girls, they're like young boys, they're like people who don't even look that they have jobs. They're like, look at they do yoga all day or have no job. They look homeless. And they're going into the store and there's lineups. I'm talking like lineups at the, at the, like the, the hot food area. Lineups to get that Bieber smoothie, lineup to buy fruits that are like, you know, like cut up fruits.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  The price of what they would be at literally any other grocery store.

• 26:58Jen Cohen?

  You don't understand, Liron. Okay, I prop, I went there, a friend, I went there and I had to get bone broth. That was like twenty five dollars for like a bowl of bone broth that like, by the way, it's like bones and water.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I literally made it this morning.

• 27:12Jen Cohen?

  I bet you cost like seven cents.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, something like that.

• 27:15Jen Cohen?

  Everything there is so ridiculously expensive, you would think, you would think that they were giving you, giving away gold in the food. Or like there was like some kind of like.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  What is it? Is it like a sort of just mob mentality, like a?

• 27:27Jen Cohen?

  No, it's trendy. It's trendy. People see it on TikTok and they see some famous person who's drinking something.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Huge thing, I feel like the trend, like their, their like propensity towards whatever the trend is.

• 27:40Jen Cohen?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  They don't, I don't think they even care. It's like, oh, the cool kids are doing it and I have.

• 27:47Jen Cohen?

  I want you to go to Arrow One and try that Bieber shake. You, you as a fitness person like me, if you see the ingredients, it's.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  I'm more of an animal based.

• 27:55Jen Cohen?

  Okay, but that's.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  One, but I'll try the, I'll try the.

• 27:58Jen Cohen?

  It's literally a bunch of sugar.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  If Arrow One pay me to do it.

• 28:00Jen Cohen?

  No, they're not gonna pay you. They're probably gonna like ban this podcast. No, I was gonna say that if you saw the ingredients and all the things, they put the word organic in front of like an ingredient.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Which itself is a little bit of a scam.

• 28:13Jen Cohen?

  It is a scam, but we'll get into that after, but the point is. You put organic bee pollen and people are like, oh, it's healthy. I'm gonna go get that organic sugar.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:24Jen Cohen?

  Okay, I'm gonna run and get get the shake. You I'm telling you, you would have to stand in line for twenty minutes for this stupid shake. It is so beyond.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  Have you tried?

• 28:32Jen Cohen?

  Anything. Yeah, it's all sugar. I didn't like it. But you put Hailey Bieber's name on a shake.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:37Jen Cohen?

  And all of a sudden, it's like, it's the most popular thing. It's like, people are so crazy.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  That's business, though. Like, I always kind of, I always get into these things and I flip it. Like, I'm thinking from a business perspective. Good for everyone. If you're if you're Erowone, that's what.

• 28:54Jen Cohen?

  No, no.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  That's your job in America.

• 28:56Jen Cohen?

  They are genius. By the way, I want the founders of Erowone to come on this podcast, even though I trashed you. Because brilliant.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:05Jen Cohen?

  Brilliant. Because, but we're living.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I don't get how they do it. I don't get why why it works.

• 29:10Jen Cohen?

  Well, number one.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  That is a brilliant business.

• 29:12Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, I'll tell you how it works. You overprice everything. People find that there's a value if they're paying too much for it.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:19Jen Cohen?

  If you underprice something or whatever, people think that like, ah, it's not worth it as much. Like, even for trainers, right? If I put a price tag on me that says I'm five hundred dollars an hour, people, it's a it's a perception of value. Oh. If she's five hundred dollars an hour, she must be really good.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:38Jen Cohen?

  Versus that eighty dollar an hour trainer at LA Fitness, he can't be as good. When it's just all fucking lies. It's all perception is reality, but perception is actually not reality.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  It's also a status thing. I think people, one of the things that people like makes human behavior look more complex than it is, is is disregarding like basic human nature that we want to have status. Like, the thing that most people want more than anything else is to be high status. Like, more than their health. They would sacrifice their health to be high status.

• 30:12Jen Cohen?

  Here, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna give you the equation to how like mob mentality works, right? It is have a really famous influencer, right? Drink the Hailey Bieber smoothie.

• 30:27Jen Cohen?

  Right, walking around in yoga pants, right? Put that on two to seven reels. And next thing you know, someone's gonna see it and their friend's gonna tell their friend, their friend's gonna tell their friend. Next thing you know, that becomes a trending product. And everyone will, will, will drive there in droves. Now, they did the same thing with El Paseo. Do you know El Paseo, the restaurant on Cannon? It became massively, it was always very popular, but it, it like hit its tipping point. When on TikTok, a couple of famous people were shown eating lunch there. And all of a sudden, people are like, oh, that's the cool place to be. That's like a restaurant where so and so is eating. I wanna go there when I come to LA.

• 31:12Jen Cohen?

  And so you have tour buses, literally, you know, basically like driving people by the droves up to buy around there to take pictures of this restaurant. Also, they do the same thing with Arrow One. And they're like, oh, why don't we go eat there? And then they go back home and tell their friends back in Ohio or Kansas. And so when they come, they wanna go. And then they're telling all their friends. While this is all happening, people are still posting about it, like people who are well-known, famous influencers, celebrities, having pictures of their meals at a particular place. And then like, it's like, it, it becomes like a cumulative effect, right?

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:51Jen Cohen?

  And that's what happens.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. But you need that starter culture, which starts from like some celebrity endorsement or whatever.

• 31:58Jen Cohen?

  I don't think it's a celebrity endorse. I think endorsements don't work.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Not, not overt ones, like subtle kind of.

• 32:04Jen Cohen?

  It has, it has to look organic, right? It has to look like, oh yeah, I just stopped in to get my smoothie or I'm just having dinner here with my friend.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  And is that generally the case? Or is that?

• 32:14Jen Cohen?

  I think people usually, I mean, sometimes it's like, it happens, I think it happens sometimes. It happens just kind of

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Organically.

• 32:22Jen Cohen?

  Organically. But I think a lot of times people have like deals on the side. You know what I mean? Like I, like deliverables. I'm gonna go into your place four times in the next, you know, eight weeks. And I will post about it this amount of times. I will do two stories around it. I will, you know. A lot of like now people know the value of what social media brings or that type of optic can bring or that type of exposure can bring. And so they want to get they want to get paid. It's like they're going to get paid for it. That's why I like that's something the idea and like what like the word celebrity has really been like morphed and evolved. Like anybody can be famous if they have a big following now on social media.

• 33:05Jen Cohen?

  And I'm not talking like a hundred thousand people. I mean, even that can be good, but and if you get if you are somebody who has a lot of engagement with that number, I mean, it's the sky's the limit. You can make millions of dollars a month, literally.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  From just having lunch.

• 33:19Jen Cohen?

  From just having lunch. Yeah.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  That era one.

• 33:22Jen Cohen?

  That era one. All right. No, El Paso for that one. Okay. So let's wrap this up, you guys. I don't even know. We were like on a tangent. We spoke about like all these random things, but thank you for being here.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you for having me.

• 33:34Jen Cohen?

  Okay, guys, check out Liron on his Instagram. What's your Instagram?

• 33:37Speaker 02

  At Beyond Fitness L A. B E Y O N D F I T N E S S L A.

• 33:42Jen Cohen?

  And by the way, we didn't even talk about fitness. So you'll have to wait around.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'll do another one on fitness.

• 33:47Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, we're gonna do it.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  We probably won't. We'll probably start on fitness and just gloss over it like we always do.

• 33:51Jen Cohen?

  Totally true. Okay, see you guys. Bye.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  Bye.