Platonic

In the breezy comedy series Platonic, Seth Rogen and Rose Byrne play former best friends who reconnect years after a falling out. The Apple TV+ show follows their misadventures as they try to navigate their respective midlife crises and become friends again. Platonic is back for a second season, so today we are revisiting our conversation about the series. See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:19Aisha Harris?

  In the breezy comedy series Platonic, Seth Rogen and Rose Byrne play former best friends who reconnect years after a falling out. As they attempt to rebuild their relationship, they find themselves in many a silly and occasionally profound situation.

• 0:33Linda Holmes?

  It's a refreshingly low-stakes premise, and if you're a fan of Rogen and Byrne, and who among us isn't, you'll probably dig this. The show is back for a second season, so we thought it would be a great time to revisit our conversation about the series. I'm Linda Holmes.

• 0:47Aisha Harris?

  And I'm Aisha Harris, and today we're talking about the Apple TV Plus series Platonic on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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• 2:18Aisha Harris?

  Joining me and Linda today is Ronald Young Jr. He's the host of the film and television review podcast Leaving the Theater. Welcome back, Ronald.

• 2:26Linda Holmes?

  Woohoo.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  Hello, hello. Happy to be here.

• 2:28Aisha Harris?

  Yay, it's great to have you here. Platonic stars Rose Byrne and Seth Rogen as Sylvia and Will, a pair of former besties whose friendship ended dramatically over a big disagreement. Now, years later, they re-enter each other's lives but as very different people. Sylvia is a retired lawyer and stay-at-home mom who's feeling the pull to return to work and questioning her life's purpose. Meanwhile, Will is reeling from a recent divorce while expanding his brewery business. The show follows their misadventures as they try to navigate their respective midlife crises and become friends again. Platonic was created by the merry team of Francesca Da Bongo and Nicholas Stoller, who together also created the series Friends from College. It's streaming on Apple TV+. So Linda, I want to start with you.

• 3:12Aisha Harris?

  So the series is called Platonic, which suggests that it might be focused on the classic gendered question around whether or not men and women can truly be friends without the sexual tension. It even directly references When Harry Met Sally in the first episode. But as the show progresses, it's clearly got other things on its mind. And so I'm wondering, you know, did you have expectations going into this? And if so, did anything about how this ultimately unfolded actually kind of surprise you in any way?

• 3:41Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, you know, I think the title suggests, and maybe even some of the original promo stuff suggested that we were going to get something where, you know, they were best friends, but particularly like did Sylvia's husband, who's played by the wonderful Luke McFarlane, who's kind of becoming one of my favorite supporting guys? You know, was the fact that her husband felt like threatened by the closeness of their relationship? Were we going to get into one of these? Can they really be friends? Is there some love triangle here? It's absolutely not that. But at the same time, what I like about it is it does go into the questions of kind of how emotionally intimate this friendship is and the confidences that happen in friendships that don't always happen in marriages. And

• 4:26Linda Holmes?

  Kind of the emotional real estate that is occupied by close friendships and how it does sometimes create complications in marriages, not because of romance or sex, but because of just closeness. And that can happen with any friend, but I think sometimes straight couples find that it's heightened with opposite sex friends because people are so socialized to not think of that as a thing. One of the things I really like about it is that it doesn't spend a lot of time in that place.

• 4:56Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, there's definitely jealousy there, but it's jealousy that isn't just about, you know, will they or won't they, but about, like you said, sharing things in different ways and sharing different parts of yourself with the various people in your lives. And I think that's something everyone can relate to, whether or not they are in a relationship or not. That's just what it is. I felt like that with friends, you know?

• 5:18Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Linda Holmes?

  In some ways, I felt it reminded me of Joy Ride, which is this kind of raucous comedy about these four friends. And one of the things that gets into is the tensions between like your old childhood friend and your college friend. It's all of these like making space for lots of people in your life. And I think in some ways, platonic is almost plucking strings that are on that instrument as well.

• 5:41Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah. Ronald, how about you? Like, what were your sort of expectations going into this? And how did this play out for you?

• 5:48Speaker 04

  Looking at the name platonic and looking at the previews, I had apprehensions that this was just going to be examining, can this actually happen? Can a man and woman actually be friends? And I know it to be true because I have plenty of women friends. I think I have more.

• 6:06Linda Holmes?

  So goofy.

• 6:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I think I have more women close friends than I do men close friends. And they've varied the spectrum, some ex-relationship, some never romantic tension, any of that. When you put that premise at the center of a show, then you kind of force it to kind of be in conflict with anything that's not the norm. And so a lot of times I noticed that the Luke McFarlane character, like that whole conflict, for me, it felt a little forced. It felt like, well, we have to do this because this is platonic. And we have to have the struggle between husband and actual platonic friend. And I still think that that is something that could still be explored, even if this were her and her woman friend. You know, in terms of emotional intimacy and all of that.

• 6:50Speaker 04

  But they didn't really touch on that in terms of the differences between those two relationships. And I guess my only qualm about the series itself is that while I enjoy it, and I think they're doing a great job. I'm like enjoying their interactions. I love Seth Rogen. I love Rose Byrne. I love the way they're interacting. I think that because that was intended to be the center of the show, everything around it kind of felt like plot threads rather than plot.

• 7:14Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah, I can kind of see that. I came into it, you know, I love everyone involved with this. There's so much DNA in this show where if you lived through the mid, early mid aughts especially, you're going to be like, oh, I recognize this person. Oh, I recognize this person. And of course you have like Seth Rogen and Rose Byrne, who have co-starred before in the movie Neighbors and Neighbors Two, where they actually played a married couple and that sort of other raucous comedy. And then you have Nicholas Stoller and then you have all this sort of like Judd Apatow adjacent universe of character actors and people. So in some respects, it's giving, you know, this is forty, you know, knocked up and like some of that DNA in there.

• 7:55Aisha Harris?

  And I was a little worried, especially in the first couple of episodes, because so much of Rose Byrne's character Sylvia, like her issues are arriving out of being a parent and also feeling as though her marriage is not what she wants it to be. And it felt familiar, you know, in a way like we've seen this before of like the stay at home mom who's just very frustrated with her life and is, you know, wondering what she could have done better. But I think once it really does flesh out and really start to be about Will and Sylvia's relationship and friendship and what it's like to actually try and reconnect with someone who you were once so close with and now you don't even know really anything about them. To me, that's like the kernel of what makes this so interesting is that it's really about trying to figure out.

• 8:38Aisha Harris?

  How do you rebuild this relationship after being so close? And I don't think we've seen as many depictions of that kind of friendship as, you know, I think we maybe should because people reconnect all the time, right? You know?

• 8:51Linda Holmes?

  Especially now, I feel like.

• 8:52Aisha Harris?

  I really liked that. I also think like, out of everything that's going on, it's very low stakes. And I really admired that about it because it's just, it's just fun. It's silly. There's an entire scene in a bar where they are all doing, everyone in the bar is giving off their secret skills.

• 9:07Linda Holmes?

  Classic comedy moment.

• 9:09Aisha Harris?

  That was funny.

• 9:10Linda Holmes?

  Adored it. I'm so glad that you mentioned the kind of Apitovian DNA in this show because one thing I really like about this show is that in some of those Judd Apatow movies, you will get like man and woman who is fun killer. And I was so afraid going into this, like, is Rose Byrne going to be a fun killer? Which I hate the idea of because she is so fun and she is so funny. That's not her role here.

• 9:34Aisha Harris?

  No.

• 9:35Linda Holmes?

  She has a lot of fun with him. That sequence that you mentioned with the secret skills, I think is mind blowing. It's also a wonderful showcase for Guy Branum, who is a friend of the show, friend of mine, and sometime Pop Culture Happy Hour panelist, who plays Luke McFarlane's friend at work.

• 9:53Aisha Harris?

  Stuart.

• 9:53Linda Holmes?

  And gets to kind of really stretch out in this bar sequence as like this buddy who's hanging out with all these people. It's a wonderful Guy Branum moment.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  Thank you. I can name all of the prime numbers to a thousand. Do you want to see it? Yeah. Two, three, five, seven, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23.

• 10:16Linda Holmes?

  That secret skill stuff, like they're throwing electric scooters and it's just this great like night out.

• 10:21Aisha Harris?

  What was with the electric scooters? He really committed to that bit.

• 10:25Linda Holmes?

  Loved it. Loved that part.

• 10:27Aisha Harris?

  That bit is like throughout the entire series where Seth Rogen just has a beef with electric scooters. So like in almost every episode.

• 10:36Aisha Harris?

  And also every episode, he's like knocking one over.

• 10:38Speaker 04

  There's a very satisfying payoff for that, I think, at some point. Because and I knew it was coming. I knew every time he kicked over a scooter, like at some point, you can't, you're not just going to get away with this forever. The payoff that comes, I thought, was pretty, I enjoyed it, I know that. I think generally, like, the fun of this show is just, it's palpable. It comes through. And I think that and it being low stakes works.

• 11:00Aisha Harris?

  I also want to, like, kind of go back to your point, Lynda, about Rose Byrne's character not being a fun killer. Because one of my favorite parts about this show is, you know, anytime you have a comedy of a certain brand, there's always going to be the inevitable drugs-taking sequence. And my goodness, they're almost always like, first of all, not at all how those drugs might actually affect you.

• 11:24Linda Holmes?

  Yes.

• 11:25Aisha Harris?

  It just feels very cliched at this point, how they're done. There's a moment, sort of midway through the series, where Rose Byrne's character, Sylvia, and Will, and then like Will's coworkers and friends are all out. And they take coke and ketamine, but it's mostly ketamine. And what I love about it is that instead of, you know, Rose Byrne going off the handle and going crazy, it just kind of subdues her and really loosens her up. And it gives her a moment to have this great moment of physical comedy. And I actually want to play a moment from, it's not like the best audio, because there's not a lot of dialogue, but you can kind of hear how it's like the opposite of what you would expect a "I just took drugs" scene to be in a comedy.

• 12:07Speaker 06

  I'm very angry.

• 12:12Speaker 06

  Livid at you.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  You should get ready.

• 12:14Speaker 07

  I think that's.

• 12:14Speaker 06

  I'm not happy about this.

• 12:16Speaker 04

  No, you don't seem happy.

• 12:18Speaker 07

  You look it.

• 12:19Aisha Harris?

  And they're, first of all, they're in the most gigantic bathroom stall I have ever seen in popular culture.

• 12:26Linda Holmes?

  It's like a bathroom stall designed for a bunch of people to take drugs.

• 12:28Aisha Harris?

  Yes, exactly.

• 12:29Speaker 04

  100%.

• 12:30Aisha Harris?

  And then like later on, she's kind of like wobbling around, and then they find themselves in a liquor store, and she just keeps falling over. It's great to see sort of this move away from the more typical way of how we depict these things.

• 12:44Linda Holmes?

  Absolutely.

• 12:45Aisha Harris?

  And it's, again, it's a great moment to see her just do this physical comedy. That I think she's really, really great at. We've seen in her other work as well.

• 12:52Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 04

  I think in a lot of ways, this would have been the same show if it wasn't called Platonic. The original premise has kind of gone from what the show is actually is, like what I'm actually watching. When we get to the final few episodes, and again, I'm looking at these plot threads where I'm like, the whole show could have been the conflict at the bar.

• 13:08Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 13:08Speaker 04

  The whole show could have been the conflict with the relationship. But it turns out it's all these little conflicts that Ayesha, you're right, you both have said like, this is just low stakes. So, which isn't a problem. I don't think the stakes have to be high, but it just, for me, was a little distracting. But when I was having fun, I was having a really, I was having a lot of fun.

• 13:25Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, because really what this show is, this show is a hangout show.

• 13:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 13:28Linda Holmes?

  Right? This show is a bunch of people hanging out in different groups, people who are really good and funny. Some of it's physical comedy, some of it's verbal comedy. It's a really nice deployment of a bunch of different kinds of comedic chemistry. Yes, Byrne and Rogan, but also, as I said, Luke McFarlane and Guy Branum and some of those folks. But you can't just make a show and say it's going to be a hangout show.

• 13:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:48Linda Holmes?

  And so they want like a thing that you can put as you're like, it's this, ooh, that sounds interesting. And it's very hard sometimes, I think, as you say, to market things as what they really are. And what this made me think about was, you know, I've, I've always run a little hot and cold on Seth Rogen in the sense that when he's doing the kind of like, I mean, you talk about a drug scene, like when he's doing the things that feel like they're like 90% drug scenes.

• 14:13Aisha Harris?

  You mean Pineapple Express?

• 14:15Linda Holmes?

  Like, I have nothing against it, like when they, when he wants to make Pineapple Express, or he wants to make This Is The End, or whatever those movies are. That is one kind of thing. But there's this other like very interesting genre of movie and TV now that he has done, which is these pairings with actresses whose vibe can be like a little patrician, whether it's Rose Byrne or Katherine Heigl in Knocked Up is the same way. Charlize Theron in Long Shot is the same thing. And he has a way, what I really like about how he handles those pairings, is that he always comes across like he really, really likes the woman. He doesn't come across like, why is she such a fun killer? I've got to loosen her up.

• 14:58Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 14:58Linda Holmes?

  He comes across as a little in awe of the woman who could be the fun killer. And I think they are able to tap into a similar energy. He can do these things without seeming exasperated by, why is this woman such a stick in the mud?

• 15:17Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 15:17Linda Holmes?

  You know what I mean?

• 15:18Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. Another reason why I mentioned earlier is sort of the jet apetow of it all. But also, this is 40 is like, there's a whole plot line here where Will is dating a much younger woman, who, who looks like, at one point, they said, she looks like Billie Eilish. And I, and I was like, actually, she, I, I had thought that before. I thought it was Billie Eilish, and then I found that it wasn't.

• 15:37Linda Holmes?

  Somebody messaged me and was like, that's not Billie Eilish, is it? And I was like.

• 15:40Aisha Harris?

  I really thought it was. She's played by Emily Kimball, and her character's name is Peyton in the show. But I was really kind of worried. I was like, oh, are we gonna get another one of these where the guy is dating a much younger woman? And blah, blah, blah. But it really, the way it plays out is actually, I think, very self-aware. And it, it does kind of point to the fact that, you know, in the mid aughts, we were kind of in a different place. And I think that especially someone like Seth Rogen has been able to sort of find in his work and the people that he's working with and all the people who have made those movies in the past, I feel like have in many ways sort of progressed in a way that doesn't feel put upon. It's just kind of like, we're kind of moving and changing with the times in a way. I don't know if you feel that way, but.

• 16:20Speaker 04

  And now that you said it, it like, it hit me like a bell. It's who's in the room? Like, they're, they're letting more people into the writer's room? And you, and that's evidence with the types of relationships that they're having. Because I believe this was written by a husband and wife team?

• 16:33Aisha Harris?

  Yes. Yeah, Nicholas Stoller and Francesca Dobanka, I guess.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I think you could tell that someone else has a say in the room. And that's coming across in the stories that we're getting now. Like, even the idea of like, putting, you know, black writers, queer writers, women writers, like, front and center in a room and having opinions. It just means that the stories that we love, they're gonna be different, and they're gonna be mindful and intentional of everyone who's there watching, participating in the story, and everyone who is viewing the story as well.

• 17:00Linda Holmes?

  But still funny. Not to be the Guy Branum fan club over here, but I do think the take that he provides on the like queer friend of the husband.

• 17:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:10Linda Holmes?

  It's quite fresh to me. It's a character who is gay and talks about being gay and talks about his, his sex life and relationship life. He's also like the very hard, charging, intense work friend. That's not a particular combination that I feel like I see all the time.

• 17:25Aisha Harris?

  Yes.

• 17:25Speaker 04

  I also want to point out that there are, and it may sound like I have an agenda here with my upcoming project, but I want to point out that there are multiple fat people in this series and them being fat is not a joke.

• 17:38Linda Holmes?

  Yep.

• 17:38Speaker 04

  It's not the joke or point or anything that they're just like living and hanging out. And Guy Branum is one of those folks and I really enjoyed that he gets that.

• 17:46Linda Holmes?

  And he has a sex life and.

• 17:47Speaker 04

  Yes, yes. He's a whole human. I'm like, yes, do that. It's that easy. Like, I love it.

• 17:51Aisha Harris?

  Yes, yes. Well, Ronald, really quickly, what is your, your upcoming project? Just so people understand what you mean.

• 17:57Speaker 04

  So I'm working on a project about weight. It's coming out in August called Wait For It. So anytime I get to see this out in the world, I get really, really excited about it.

• 18:05Linda Holmes?

  Awesome. Gosh, and Guy in that little Dodgers outfit. Love it.

• 18:09Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 18:10Linda Holmes?

  Love it so much.

• 18:11Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, it's, it's just a fun show. People should check it out and hopefully you'll enjoy it.

• 18:16Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 18:16Aisha Harris?

  And when you do check it out, you should definitely let us know what you think about Platonic. Find us at facebook.com slash PCHH. That brings us to the end of our show. Ronald Young Jr. And Linda Holmes, thanks so much for being here. It was fun chatting with you.

• 18:31Linda Holmes?

  Oh, thank you.

• 18:32Speaker 04

  Always a pleasure to be with y'all.

• 18:33Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. And this episode was produced by Romell Wood and edited by Mike Katzen. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy and Hello Come In provides our theme music. And thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris and we'll see you all tomorrow.

• 18:55Speaker 03

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