Josh Johnson: Finding Meaning in a System Built to Fracture You

In this episode, Josh Johnson’s signature hilarious introspection is on full display as he shares stories with Trevor and Eugene about everything from childhood bullying and nunchuck mastery to coming into his own as a comedian and providing for the people he loves most.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Put your hands together for Josh Johnson.

• 0:03Trevor Noah?

  The newest correspondent, he's an Emmy winner. He's got millions of followers online. Wired magazine called him the funniest guy on the internet, and that's a big place.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Josh is putting out a weekly special every single Tuesday on his YouTube channel.

• 0:14Speaker 02

  I'm gonna have to sit there, listening, watching the Super Bowl halftime show to Spanish. I'm gonna have to sit there with my guacamole, my chips in my lap, listening to Spanish.

• 0:25Speaker 00

  His channel has gotten over 350 million views, and all this success has actually landed him a hosting spot on The Daily Show.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  He has a dream that one day he will not be judged by the content of the Epstein files. I can't stress enough how much I'm enjoying what I'm doing and like how obsessed I am with comedy in general.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  This is What Now? with Trevor Noah.

• 1:01Trevor Noah?

  Earth can be a lot sometimes. Heat waves, gas prices, bad hair days. Why not go where life is good? Escape to Pluto TV. Turn off your problems and turn on your favorite movies and shows. You know, the ones you already love. From Anchorman, the legend of Ron Burgundy, to Dirty Dancing, to Top Gun Maverick, from Alias to The X-Files. It's all here and all free. Go where the TV is always good. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.

• 1:36Trevor Noah?

  This segment is brought to you by Google Pixel. You know what's really frustrating? Knowing the exact information you need is somewhere on your phone, but still ending up wasting your time digging through five different apps just to actually find it. Thankfully, Google Pixel 11 is designed with Gemini intelligence, so it can proactively find the information I need right when I need it. Like my flight info on travel days or my calendar when Eugene texts me to hang out. Oh, sorry Eugene, I'm booked. Learn more about what Google Pixel 11 can do at googlestore.com. These AI features are available in select countries and languages for users 18 and over, and make sure to check responses.

• 2:21Trevor Noah?

  You're booked forever, forever. This episode is brought to you by Verizon.

• 2:28Trevor Noah?

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• 3:13Trevor Noah?

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• 3:43Trevor Noah?

  Do you remember you had a gag about that, Eugene, back in the day? About Dexter? There was a jo— what are you looking at?

• 3:51Trevor Noah?

  What were you doing? Something.

• 3:55Trevor Noah?

  Do you remember, there was a joke you— I feel like it was you. You had a joke about how— it was something about like attempted murder. Yeah. Ah, man. Tell me more. Oh, man, what was— it was—I feel like the premise was something to the effect of you should get like more of a punishment for attempted murder than murder. Because like attempted, like you're not good at what you did. It wasn't you? Maybe it was me then.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  That's so funny.

• 4:22Trevor Noah?

  Does that ever happen to you?

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I've—I've definitely been like, this came to me too easy. I wonder, like, is it somebody— and then I look back at my notebook and I wrote it. And then forgot about it.

• 4:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, sometimes I think it's— Are you sure?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Hmm, I'm gonna go look and see if I ever. This logic is solid, though. Yeah. Cause like if somebody hit you, if somebody try to hit you in your eye, they hit you above your eye, you get more mad. Cause you like, you tried to hit me in my eye.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  My one was like, if we could figure out a way to make a body disappear, more murders would happen. Cause it seems like a body, once someone is dead, ew, that thing becomes very famous.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Oh, so if we just like, if it just evaporated?

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  But now a body is very hard to disappear.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Huh.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  People roll it in carpets, put it in drums, pour acid over it, put it in dustbins to get rid of it.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, people will make the whole mess bigger, or they'll make the thing they gotta get rid of bigger. Cause you put, if you put a body in an oil drum, that's a bigger thing you gotta move.

• 5:25Speaker 03

  Problem.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  And it becomes heavier.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  I never thought of it like that. No, my squat is already bad. So then just to get the body. Cause you also don't think, look, if you commit a crime of passion, you don't factor it, you're gonna be tired. So then now you've killed somebody.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  I think first is regret.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  I got, hopefully, if you're not like a sociopath, but even sociopaths only have so much muscle. So then now you're like, alright, I gotta move the body. And it's like, trying to move a body, I am mad. If you've ever caught a person, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you've ever like, tried to pick someone up. Especially dead weight. Yeah. Like, there's a reason they call it that.

• 6:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's reasons why people wake their partners up from the couch.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  Like, eh eh eh, gotta go now.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Yo, gotta go sleep. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Hundred percent, because there are people that think they could pick people up because you picked someone who was excited up for sex. If there was a crime that you had to commit, what crime would you trust yourself best to commit? Uh, hmm, this feels like it'll end up in a deposition. Uh, wire fraud, maybe?

• 6:34Speaker 03

  Look into that camera.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Say it into that camera, please, Josh.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Cause here's a, here's the thing about wire fraud, here's the thing about wire fraud, everybody already does it by accident. Wait, what is wire fraud again, in America? Like, there's, like, to me, my understanding of like, wire fraud is like misrepresenting a transaction. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Pretty positive that that's most of Venmo. Like, mo- like, most of Venmo. You say like what your payment was? Yeah, and it's like, you're lying.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  This is.

• 7:03Trevor Noah?

  Do you write the real thing?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Uh, I try to write the real thing so I remember the real thing. I've had to, I've had to pay people before for like a service, like I'll pay someone and it'll be like a studio, like a music studio. And so I'll just say studio time. I don't say sandwich.

• 7:18Trevor Noah?

  That's boring. You gotta say sandwich, Josh. That's what makes Venmo fun.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  What crime would you perform?

• 7:23Trevor Noah?

  Is when you, who me?

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. Cause I feel like crime is a performance.

• 7:27Trevor Noah?

  If I had to pick.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  It's planned, there's rehearsals, there's costumes.

• 7:30Trevor Noah?

  If I had to pick what I think I would be best at, if it was committing a crime.

• 7:36Trevor Noah?

  I, I think I've, I've always thought I'd be like a good getaway driver. That's what I would pick.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  So like aiding and abetting would be your?

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Getting away.

• 7:44Trevor Noah?

  The get, like the driver, I'd just be the driver.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  We jump in.

• 7:46Trevor Noah?

  Drive you, you know, like the transporter, those kinds of things. Yeah, I'm like, I think I would, I would do that. I think I would be, I think I would be really good.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  I'm just, I'm just going off of the court term. Like, like I think you'd be like aiding and abetting a heist, like a robbery.

• 7:59Trevor Noah?

  Wouldn't you just be part of it if you, if you're the driver? Is that what they, they give you less of a sentence?

• 8:04Speaker 02

  I'm positive they give you less of a sentence because sometimes there are people who have the plausible deniability of like, especially if you're, if you're just like, like criminals. And we, we aren't boys. So then I get pulled in to do this thing. I can be like, hey, he put a gun in my head and said, drive. I was just chilling.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  But if there's four people that go, we did not.

• 8:22Trevor Noah?

  You could also just say like you were just driving these people, but you didn't know why.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:27Trevor Noah?

  I'm a, it's an Uber.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  It's a very tough.

• 8:29Trevor Noah?

  I wonder if you could get away with that. I wonder if you could, I wonder if you could be an Uber driver.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:34Trevor Noah?

  Who's planning to rob a bank with your crew.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:36Trevor Noah?

  You wait outside a place, they jump in, you run and then they catch you. No, but if they, like you, you go like, I thought it was my fare.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:46Trevor Noah?

  I wonder if that would, I wouldn't want you, I'd get your excuse from my jury. That's what I would do.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  That is also a thing that has happened. Do you know what I mean? Like people, people have done a crime and then got in an Uber.

• 8:57Trevor Noah?

  And yeah, taxis, Ubers.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Guys, I, I don't know this person at all.

• 9:02Trevor Noah?

  But why did he give you five stars?

• 9:05Trevor Noah?

  Nobody gives five stars. What crime would you commit?

• 9:07Speaker 03

  I think already being a comedian, you're committing the biggest crime of them all.

• 9:11Trevor Noah?

  Damn, by doing what?

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Making them believe that what you say is real, you've thought about this.

• 9:16Trevor Noah?

  When did that start, by the way?

• 9:18Speaker 03

  What, stand up?

• 9:19Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no. No, I'm saying like, when did that start, like?

• 9:25Speaker 03

  You know podcasting?

• 9:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  To radio presenters?

• 9:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  Is a crime. It shouldn't exist.

• 9:30Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz they're thinking, this is, I have a boss, I got voice training, I read. The next thing you know, you know what the thing is, which crime would you? Then they go, you know me, I work for a living. So already this, in another planet, alternate universe, the crime.

• 9:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but what I'm, what I'm going back to is the stand up thing.

• 9:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:49Trevor Noah?

  When did that start? I don't know, how, how long have you been doing stand up, Eugene?

• 9:53Speaker 03

  Sure, maybe about my, I'm drained fifty years.

• 9:57Trevor Noah?

  How many years?

• 9:58Speaker 03

  Almost seventeen.

• 10:00Trevor Noah?

  Seventeen years, Josh?

• 10:01Speaker 02

  Um, I am at almost thirteen.

• 10:05Trevor Noah?

  Thirteen years, yeah, so same seventeen, seventeen, seventeen, maybe eighteen. No, we started at the same time, so whatever your number is, must be my number. But I remember a time when like comedy was the thing that wasn't real.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:19Trevor Noah?

  And you would say it on stage.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:21Trevor Noah?

  And then one day, comedy was the thing that was real, that even if it wasn't real, does this make sense?

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like some of that happened with like Pryor, cuz he was telling us his real life.

• 10:34Trevor Noah?

  You think, oh, with Richard Pryor?

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think that he was telling us his real life and he was like giving us like cultural takes off of it in a way that hadn't, it, it had been very danger field up until that point. It had been very like, I have a shtick or here's like my character on stage.

• 10:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Or even if I am actually married, I'm not talking about my wife, I'm talking about the idea of a wife. And Richard Pryor was like, no, this is, this is what I do when I'm not on stage, this is where I come from. This is also how I actually feel when you, when you see me in the, uh, in the street and like something racist happens, this is how I feel about it. So then everything with Richard Pryor, even If he was embellishing now, he'd literally have to talk about like a person flying for you to not think. He wasn't talking about his life.

• 11:21Trevor Noah?

  Talking dog or mud bone.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  He started talking about like his life, like that was, that was him. And I think even if people did, you know, before him, he was one of the first people to get popular doing it. So he gets kind of like a credit for doing it at such a high level.

• 11:37Trevor Noah?

  Do you remember when your comedy became more about the real? Cause I, cause I, I, I, let me think of when I first saw your comedy. First time I saw Josh Johnson's comedy, I think it was around just before when you joined the Daily Show. And.

• 11:53Trevor Noah?

  You weren't, you weren't surreal, but you, you were definitely doing stuff that wasn't like real, real.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like very silly and oh, thank good you saw.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Man, this man saw me just in time. If you had seen me a year ago. If you had seen me two weeks before, we wouldn't, we didn't even know each other like this.

• 12:12Trevor Noah?

  What do you mean?

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Because I was like, you, you start out and you're like a version of yourself, but you're like. You're such a baby in the things that you like doing and you're such a baby in like what you, what you even know works for you. So now if you gave me like 10 topics and you told me to write 10 jokes off of them. Or if you asked me if they relate to 10 stories in my life, I could find that and I could find how that relates to an audience. If you did it right before you met me, maybe the day before you met me, I'd be like, ah, oh. I'm a, I'm just keep working at the grocery store because this seems too difficult.

• 12:46Trevor Noah?

  I don't know, man. I feel like, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you've always been a, I, I can't imagine you not being. Not this version of comedian, but not this person, this version of Josh, like I, I'm yet to, I'm yet to meet a good comedian. Who I don't think I could meet as themselves as a child.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Oh, that's, that's interesting. That's, that's very interesting.

• 13:07Trevor Noah?

  Like what, like what was little Josh like? You know what I mean?

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, you know what it is now to your point is that I feel like I.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  It took me, if you want to talk about like a journey, it took me up until now to find the place in the jigsaw where I fit in. So it's like, I've changed the way that people change from kid to adult. But I haven't changed fully. And so like, it was me not fitting for the entirety of my life up until two years ago. And now I like, everything that, everything I know to do that's like true to me makes sense now. As opposed to like, I was a version of, I, cuz, ooh. The story I told you when I was in, uh, when I was in college, I went to like my first bar. And I was like, ooh, y'all, this markup bad.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Y'all know if we just buy the bottle at the store, we could have a, we could, y'all could get so much more drunk. And so I'm not even drinking and I'm ruining everybody's time because I'm like, guys, no, y'all saw at the store where this bottle was thirteen dollars. But the cocktail thirteen dollars, so like, this is crazy, right? And then everyone's just holding their drink like, yeah, yeah. And I, now I know, and now I know where to do that. And it's like, now, now, now I've aimed it to where it's like, I'm not doing it all the time to everyone, to everything. And I've aimed it at like, okay, this is a thing you save for stage. And not even every stage, cuz when you do a comedy club,

• 14:39Speaker 02

  there'll also be people being like, oh yeah, they are making me buy two drinks at an insane mark. This is what you save for like, you're doing an outdoor event, you're doing a state fair.

• 14:49Trevor Noah?

  It's like your inside voice and stage voice.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:52Trevor Noah?

  That's essentially what it is.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  Do you apply the same logic when you think of, maybe you see a comedian or an actor? Then you go, you know your uncle tells the same stories and you pay him nothing.

• 15:05Trevor Noah?

  You mean like about the funniest people?

• 15:06Speaker 03

  You added the markup, yeah.

• 15:07Trevor Noah?

  You know, I used to think that. And then I started to understand, at least for me, the difference between being a comedian and being a funny person. So I often tell people, I'm, and I mean this genuinely, I'm not the funniest person I have known in my life ever, ever, ever, like by far, by far, by far. There are too many people in my world where I go. Thank you Eugene.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  I've seen you. You have moments.

• 15:28Trevor Noah?

  Thank you so much Eugene.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  When you put on the Puss in Boots.

• 15:30Trevor Noah?

  Man, this is why you gotta have good friends. Thank you, man. Thank you so much.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  When you're also in your insecure moments, I think you're the funniest.

• 15:37Trevor Noah?

  Thank you so much.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  How's my Afro today?

• 15:38Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  Did I get that back?

• 15:40Trevor Noah?

  That actually wasn't a joke, but okay, thank you.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Actually.

• 15:44Trevor Noah?

  That wasn't.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  While we're on the topic of the Afro, one thing I'm very jealous about with you is that, cause this is my thing. Look, look. Just between us, right?

• 15:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  I was doing.

• 15:54Trevor Noah?

  I'm here too.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  I was, I was doing, yeah.

• 15:56Trevor Noah?

  You did us house.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  I was like, I was like doing, I was doing an Afro for a long time and what I was doing was like not correct. Like it was, it was like falling off of my head a little bit, cause it was getting so big that the right side was bigger than the left side.

• 16:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  And it was just, it was, my mom would tell me I looked like a spaceship, right? And then, and then Trevor goes all natural.

• 16:18Trevor Noah?

  You know how bad your hair has to be for your mom to roost it? Cause moms are the last people to ever see anything wrong about you in life.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:24Trevor Noah?

  And your mom was like, hey, what's going on spaceship boy? What's up? If the battle star hasn't arrived.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  I would go, I would go home and my mom would ask me what the plan was.

• 16:35Trevor Noah?

  This is how bad, wait, okay, so I remember, I remember this Afro.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but what was the, so.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  So then, when you, when you, when you started growing out your hair, but you had like a plan, you were like, okay, I'm gonna grow it out and you, you had, you were like reasonable about it. That was what like really clued me into what I was doing.

• 16:54Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no. I think you're being kind. I didn't have, I didn't have, cause remember where it started? Covid was like the real, the real kickoff, right? That's the jump off. That's when my hair starts growing again. Up until then, I was like, you gotta cut your hair, gotta cut your hair, gotta cut your hair, gotta cut your hair.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  For work.

• 17:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, for work and for school and for like, everyone tells you, cut your hair, cut your hair, cut your, there's a certain way to look. Cut your hair, cut your hair, cut your hair, cut your hair. Covid comes, can't cut your hair, can't cut your hair, can't cut your, can't cut your. Then we're like deep into the pandemic, no one's cut their hair. Then restrictions started like calming down a little bit. People were like, all right, maybe you can go to a barber, maybe you can, but I was like, I don't know, man. Don't wanna sit in a chair. And then people are coughing on me and now I'm in, I was like, I don't wanna risk it for a haircut. There's no, there's no haircut in my world that is worth dying for.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  This is how you can tell somebody has a good face. Cause they're like, there's no haircut.

• 17:43Trevor Noah?

  Worth dying for.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  No, no, no, you don't know.

• 17:46Trevor Noah?

  Worth dying for.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  With their people, where you.

• 17:52Trevor Noah?

  Josh is like, some of you should die.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  No, no, I'm just saying that like, this is a person who's put together where it's like, ah, it's just hair. There are some people there hanging on by a thread who are like, my hair, my, my, my suit gotta be, you have me? Cause they just know they're working with less.

• 18:08Trevor Noah?

  I hear you. But what I'm saying is, this was death we were talking about. Remember this?

• 18:14Speaker 02

  This is death. Yeah.

• 18:15Trevor Noah?

  No, I'm with you. We were going to booty calls, my man. Yeah. During Covid. And what happened to some of them? They died because of that. Some of them have babies. Okay, but some of them are dead. Some of them are dead. Those things are wild.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:27Trevor Noah?

  Ha!

• 18:29Trevor Noah?

  So, so this is what I'm, okay, so this is what I'm saying is, we were all on, on, in this, in this journey together, right? I think the difference between you and I was that because I was like, on camera all the time, there were more people who felt like they couldn't just let me go on with like, like someone, someone along the lines randomly was like, hey man, at least get a line up. That's what someone would say. Someone said that? Yeah, yeah, someone would be like, same things you say to me, be like, yo man, at least, yo, come on man, at least. Nina? You know, people would be like, look like someone's child. Just look like someone's child. That's what they would say to me, right?

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:04Trevor Noah?

  Now, I think the only difference between you and I is, because you were not in front of the camera at that time.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  Sure, sure.

• 19:12Trevor Noah?

  Nobody was like, you weren't shaming other people. You were just shaming yourself.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 19:18Trevor Noah?

  With the spaceship box haircut.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Because it would be like, I would do like a, like a virtual live show or like a whatever.

• 19:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  And then people in the chat would be like, hey.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  These are people who paid a dollar to get into the thing. And they'd be like, hey, my man, like, I know this time been rough on everybody. I know, like, it would, it would be like that.

• 19:43Trevor Noah?

  Damn, Josh. You're a strong man. I would feel so insecure. You, Josh and I used to roll. And we both had, at some point, it looked like the theme of the tour that we were on was unruly hair. But Josh's hair got so big and weird that sometimes he'd be on stage. And you know when the cameras like got a shot of you?

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 20:06Trevor Noah?

  The background would be black.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 20:08Trevor Noah?

  But Josh's hair was so big, it had three different colors. The hair closest to his head was the darkest.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:13Trevor Noah?

  And then it would get lighter and lighter. But because of the background.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 20:17Trevor Noah?

  And the darkness of his hair, it looked like Josh.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 20:20Trevor Noah?

  There was nothing. No, it looked like there was nothing.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:22Trevor Noah?

  And on top of it, there was like a floating, he looked like he was wearing one of those Russian hats. You know those furry?

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:29Trevor Noah?

  You look like you're wearing one of those Russian furry hats.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Cause I did a thing that was just out of pandemic that was like, um, it was at The Cellar.

• 20:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  And they did a live stream slash like, like taping of it. And they had extra lights because they had cameras. And so then those extra lights, I saw it later and I, I see what you were talking about. I was like, ah, this is, and it.

• 20:53Trevor Noah?

  It looked like you literally put on that hat. It was like your thing.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:56Trevor Noah?

  Josh, you're on in five minutes. Hold on, let me get my hat.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, because, because then I think when, when you, the first time you got a, like, a cut from How It Had Grown.

• 21:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Was when I was like, oh, life could be different.

• 21:13Trevor Noah?

  Life's very different.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:15Trevor Noah?

  No, for you now, I mean, like, life is very, very, life is different in every way I can think of. It's been so much fun watching it from my perspective because I've known like multiple versions of Josh.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 21:29Trevor Noah?

  In, in how life is like responding to you, if, if I can put it that way.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that's fair, that's fair.

• 21:34Trevor Noah?

  I knew the Josh who, you know, I met you, you were already working at, um, you were working at Jimmy Fallon's show when I met you, right?

• 21:41Speaker 02

  No, no, I had just left.

• 21:42Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so you just left, but I mean.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Like touring.

• 21:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I knew you as like, okay, comedians like doing things and whatever. But you were this, this guy who was like, hey, man, I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm seeing what the world is gonna throw my way. I'm just trying to hustle. I'm writing a joke, doing a thing here. And then, you know, then you went through the hair phase and it was like, all right, I'm still hustling and also you see my hair. And I don't know where this is going. Yeah, I don't know where this is going and.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Not hair, it's a hat.

• 22:10Trevor Noah?

  And then, oh, and then Josh went through this phase. Yo, then Josh started lifting. You remember when you started lifting?

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:14Trevor Noah?

  The time you had nunchucks. Yo, this man.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was around then.

• 22:18Trevor Noah?

  Yo.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Yo.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  This is where it's a horrible time to meet a person. Cause he met me during nunchucks, which is also just like, oh, this is guy that.

• 22:33Trevor Noah?

  That is one of the most random moments to meet a human being.

• 22:35Speaker 03

  Why did you?

• 22:36Trevor Noah?

  With a chain.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Why did you have nunchucks?

• 22:38Speaker 02

  I was like, look, you can't have, you can't have a gun, but people are crazy in New York. And I don't know, like, we thought, like, a lot of people thought was like low key the end of the world. We were just being chill about it. So I was like, I need something.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  And you thought nunchucks were the solution?

• 22:52Speaker 02

  And I can't get a sword. And so like, I'm like, let me just have something that's like a little bit. And then I saw the news report, cause there was a news report about how they had lifted. There was like a nunchuck ban in New York City.

• 23:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, there was for a while.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  And then when they lifted it, I was like, I was like, hey, then we ride. And if I get good, then I at least get, it extends my safety one more arm.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Do you have me?

• 23:18Trevor Noah?

  Wait, hold on.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  I can defend myself one more arms length away.

• 23:22Trevor Noah?

  Just one further.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  I think if nunchucks were, cops would have had them.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 23:26Trevor Noah?

  But they do have, they have a version of nunchucks. The baton.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  They have the.

• 23:29Trevor Noah?

  The baton is like a version of a nunchuck or a less skilled individual.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  And you know why the baton works?

• 23:34Trevor Noah?

  Because it's like, it's, it's like idiot.

• 23:36Speaker 03

  You know why it works?

• 23:37Trevor Noah?

  No, because it's simple.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  Let's, let's let the nunchuck expert here tell us why a baton. Would you want to go in a fight with me if I had a baton and then you had nunchucks? Who do you think would win?

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Here's the thing, here's the thing, here's how I'll put it, okay? The baton is more practical. The nunchuck is crazier. Would you rather fight someone who maybe isn't skilled?

• 23:56Trevor Noah?

  This is what I'm talking about.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Or would you rather fight someone who you knows bites? Cause nunchuck is the bite, it's like, I might hit you, I might hit me. I'm crazy.

• 24:06Trevor Noah?

  You never know.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  That's why there's a phrase called blunt instrument, cause anyone can use it. What you have is nunchuck is, requires a skill set. Me, if I'm angry enough with a baton, you are dead.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  You have to know a certain level of skill to manage nunchucks. Cause nunchucks are almost like a boomerang. Cause people never account for the fact that you have to wait for it to come back.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  And it only comes back if it doesn't hit anything.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  The boomerang goes, then it goes, goes.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Then you hold, yeah, what, nunchuck is the, yeah, then you hope, better believe that you're going to be hoping it hits something.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  Because it can also hit you.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  You've experienced that, nah? When nunchucks come back.

• 24:47Trevor Noah?

  Are you good at nunchucks now?

• 24:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 24:49Trevor Noah?

  Aw, damn, what a waste.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Not at all. No, no, no.

• 24:52Trevor Noah?

  I thought you at least got to like the, like the arm stage.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  I got to the arm stage, but the arm stage is half, that's a wrist away from me. I need to be good at the, you know what I mean? If I'm good at this, when you're really good at the Bruce Lee stuff, that, somebody could still get very close to you.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  Yes, but here's my thing with nunchucks, while you're going to shoot you, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, that doesn't account for you hitting anyone.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  No, it does, it does, because then, if you're in here, if you're in here.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Bow.

• 25:21Trevor Noah?

  Like you string it out.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, now you can't see it, so you don't know what direction I'm about to swing it from under my arm.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  And let's say you hit me, bam, and then what happens to the nunchuck that left? Cause there's two of them, I mean, there's one that you're holding, and there's one that left.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  That's the one that hits you.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  What happens to the part that hit me?

• 25:38Speaker 02

  The part that hit you goes down, but now that it's down, I can hit you in the back of the head.

• 25:42Trevor Noah?

  This guy, you see this guy was in it. You know what I'm loving?

• 25:45Speaker 03

  I've seen George do those nunchucks.

• 25:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you don't seem so.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  He self-defends himself more.

• 25:50Trevor Noah?

  No, 100%. Taking himself from himself.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  100%.

• 25:53Trevor Noah?

  I'm imagining, you know what I'm imagining? I'm imagining the person who was walking through New York City, seeing you with your spaceship hair and the nunchucks, and then they were like, I need to go to self-defense training, cause New York is full of crazy people.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  No, cause I'll tell you right now, the hair saved my life. Because then, I'm over here practicing, and I brought, I bought two practice ones. I bought one that was like foam, but the foam one is like, is gonna break in a day. Like you can't.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  That's how dangerous these things are.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? The foam one, you can't, so then you have to use the wooden one, cause I was never gonna buy the metal one. Cause the metal, the metal one, you could accidentally kill somebody, and now it's swinging from your head, but you're like, uh, uh, and you wait for them to come.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Accidentally kill someone, aren't you trying to defend yourself?

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Because, okay, the same way where you're trying to defend yourself, you know, out of box, and then you, and then you, and then you punch somebody on the chin, right? But you end up knocking them out, and they fall, and the way they fall, they die, right? It's like, that could happen. The metal nunchuck is for murder. Like, like, that, that one I still don't think should be legal.

• 27:00Trevor Noah?

  We'll be right back after this short break.

• 27:05Trevor Noah?

  This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Did you know that Apple Card is designed to help you pay off your balance faster with smart payment suggestions? And because fees don't help you, Apple Card doesn't have any. That's right, no fees. So if your credit card isn't Apple Card, maybe it should be. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card, issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 17.99% to 28.24% based on credit worthiness. Rates as of October 1, 2025. Existing customers can view their variable APR in the Wallet app or card.apple.com. Terms and more at applecard.com.

• 27:51Trevor Noah?

  This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. You know how Thanksgiving always sneaks up on you? One minute, you're eating leftover Halloween candy, and the next, everyone's arguing about who's making what for Thanksgiving dinner. Who are you talking to? Luckily, Whole Foods Market makes it easy to pull it all together. With great prices on turkey, sales on baking essentials, and everyday low prices from the 365 by Whole Foods Market brand, you can actually prep for the holiday without losing your mind or your budgets. Yo, why are you speaking like that? They've got high-quality organic produce and grab-and-go sides, which honestly save your life when you said you'd bring something and completely forgot to cook. Is this an ad?

• 28:36Trevor Noah?

  You just teleport us into an ad? The 365 brand is all about better everyday essentials, affordable pantry staples, baking must-haves, all the basics that still meet Whole Foods Market's quality standards. So whether you're hosting, contributing a dish, or just showing up hungry, Whole Foods Market has everything you need to make this holiday season easier and more delicious. We're sponsored! Shop everything you need for Thanksgiving now at Whole Foods Market. Can we go back to the episode? Everybody has that oddly specific thing that they're curious about. Maybe it's restoring old watches. Maybe it's Japanese ceramic making. Maybe it's watching someone explain why one bridge in a remote area of Norway is secretly

• 29:20Trevor Noah?

  better than all the other bridges in the world. YouTube always has exactly what you're looking for, even when you didn't know you were looking for it. With YouTube Premium, those deep dives feel even smoother. You get ad-free viewing, but you also get background play when you need your hands free. And you get offline downloads, so you can keep watching wherever you happen to be, even if you happen to be off the grid. It's everything you already love about YouTube, just somehow even better. Yeah, one of my favorite YouTube Premium features is Smart Downloads. Because how many times have you gone somewhere and realized, "Ugh, I forgot to download anything!" And now you're on the way to the airport and you're like, "Download, download, download, download." You're on the plane, "Download, download, download, download." There's no Wi-Fi.

• 30:05Trevor Noah?

  "I wish I downloaded!" Now, all of those things that you were gonna watch are just on the internet. Smart Downloads basically thinks ahead for you. It automatically downloads recommended videos based on what you like to watch, so even when you forget to prepare, YouTube Premium didn't. I love it. It's like packing for a trip and discovering somebody already remembered the thing you always leave at home. It's always the underwear. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. Earth can be a lot sometimes. Heat waves, gas prices, bad hair days. Why not go where life is good? Escape to Pluto TV.

• 30:50Trevor Noah?

  Turn off your problems and turn on your favorite movies and shows. You know, the ones you already love. From Anchorman, the Legend of Ron Burgundy, to Dirty Dancing, to Top Gun Maverick, from Alias to The X-Files. It's all here and all free. Go where the TV is always good. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.

• 31:19Trevor Noah?

  What's the first fight you were ever in as a kid? Like the biggest, like the fight you remember? Did you ever fight?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, fight implies a link that I made the fight continue. I was like beat up sometimes as a kid.

• 31:36Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  But like, I would, I would like try to fight back.

• 31:40Trevor Noah?

  Who was beating you up?

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Just other kids. Like it was, and it wasn't even like-

• 31:44Trevor Noah?

  Were these like bullies bullies? Or were these just other kids?

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Two of them were like bullies bullies.

• 31:48Trevor Noah?

  Okay, yeah, yeah, okay.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  But like, but the thing is, it's like the same awareness that I think a kid doesn't have of like where their elbow is so they knock a glass over. Is the awareness of like strength that I lacked for something I wanted to do. So like, like for instance, there was one time I like stood up to a bully. Like I really like stood up to him and it's like-

• 32:09Trevor Noah?

  Wait, wait, wait. Set the scene. What was their name? We all remember our bullies' names.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  I, look, I won't say his name. Yeah, I will, I will say his name, but it rhymes with wheat.

• 32:22Trevor Noah?

  Okay, wheat.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  And so, so then, you know, Ben picking on me, Ben-

• 32:28Trevor Noah?

  So Pete is Pete the bully? We got Pete or wheat?

• 32:31Speaker 02

  Man, you must know one. I don't know one, anyway.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  But then-

• 32:36Trevor Noah?

  How old are you?

• 32:37Speaker 02

  I have to be maybe eight.

• 32:41Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Or like nine, something like that. And, and I had had enough of it, right? And I just like, and I even had like a little speech planned if he, if he like came up on me, rolled up on me, messed with me, right? And so I said all the stuff and then I, I like reared back, which he was also surprised by. Like, and this also I can tell as a big kid, cause he was more surprised than threatened. He was like, wow, something's about to happen. It was crazy. And then I reared back and I punched him as hard as I could and I managed to punch him like in the, in the chin a bit, like, like kinda like, like, yeah, like-

• 33:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Back jaw, right?

• 33:17Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  And then he like grabbed his face, cause also when you're a kid and nobody's like really hit you or hit you back.

• 33:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  It's surprising. So, you know, he's like, and then he walks away. And then as soon as he walks away, I'm like-

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Like I'm like grabbing my head cuz I I hadn't like put it together that this would hurt.

• 33:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it no one shows you. I mean, in the movies, they don't show you that.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. And and they're not hurt. Like Bruce Lee never finished the fight after everybody was down was like, ah, ah, like this never happened.

• 33:50Trevor Noah?

  Jackie Chan did.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:52Trevor Noah?

  He was the he was the honest fighter.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  He was the he's what got us closer to John Wick.

• 33:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Cuz John Wick will end the fight and be like, oh, oh, God.

• 34:02Trevor Noah?

  I still don't like that he got hit by a car and carried on. That always threw me. John Wick.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Didn't he jump a bit?

• 34:09Trevor Noah?

  Man, I don't know.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  He jumped a bit, though.

• 34:11Trevor Noah?

  I don't know. I you know what? I I really like John Wick.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:15Trevor Noah?

  The movies.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 34:15Trevor Noah?

  The only thing I didn't.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  The Matrix.

• 34:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  And he's the same guy.

• 34:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but the difference there is it's not the real world. So I'm John Wick is hit by a vehicle.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 34:25Trevor Noah?

  And then he just gets up and.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  It's not the real world again. Between John Wick and The Matrix.

• 34:30Trevor Noah?

  No, The Matrix is not the real world.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 34:32Trevor Noah?

  What I'm saying is in John Wick.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  John Wick is the real one.

• 34:37Trevor Noah?

  You know, you know what, Josh? Let's carry on.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  So a geriatric version of Neo.

• 34:41Trevor Noah?

  Josh, let's carry on. Guy's trying to.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Where instead of being led by a black man, he's led by a dog is more.

• 34:47Trevor Noah?

  But I was.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  Much more real than.

• 34:49Trevor Noah?

  He's in.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  The Matrix.

• 34:50Trevor Noah?

  He's in cuz they they said it wasn't anyway. So wait, wait. Did the the bully ever come back?

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Different day. But yeah.

• 34:59Trevor Noah?

  And then by then. This isn't like a victory story. This isn't like Josh Johnson.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  No, it's you. I won a half a battle and I lost the next battle. Like it wasn't even a war. It was just like, I cuz I was just an easy target too cuz I think I'm openly like sensitive and I am not like a big guy. So I didn't have a big I did. I never had a big frame growing up.

• 35:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  So even in high school, the people who picked on me was like, yeah, it's like easy pickings. Like I I look like I almost don't exist in my clothes.

• 35:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, your sweets. Um.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Poetic.

• 35:35Trevor Noah?

  You are, you're timid in your vibe.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 35:38Trevor Noah?

  Like just as Josh, like as I've always known you, you're really considerate. You, you're a perfect like bully fodder in that way.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  And it doesn't help that I was always like, read, like when your head is down for reading, you're a perfect target for anything. I'm like reading, I'm like reading all the time. I'm like reading for fun. And so now I genuinely don't know what's about to happen until the book gets slapped out my head. And then I look up and I'm sure any bully that saw me was looking at me and I was looking at them like, like just because I'm, the shock of like, the book's on the floor, what's about to happen?

• 36:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? So, and I, and I don't think I like carried an awareness for defense enough ever, really. Until, until maybe like, I really became an adult. Even being in Chicago, I was like, look, apparently, you know, especially when you go to like some, some clubs, where like on the south side and people would either, you would either know something happened or people would say something that just happened.

• 36:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  At some point. And so I was like, all right, like, I'll be fine, I'll just run. And then whatever bullet hits me was meant for me. Do you have it?

• 36:46Trevor Noah?

  You were never about that life. You were never like, I'm gonna stand up, fight, do a thing, handle it, no.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  No, even when I tried to like roll with other kids that were like tough, they were even like, you're too sweet for this thing. Like you're not like a tough, like even kids in my neighborhood would be like, yeah, but you're not like.

• 37:03Trevor Noah?

  I like that.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, no.

• 37:04Trevor Noah?

  I genuinely, you know.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  I look, I, I, at the time, I looked back on it as like, why is everybody, um, so, what is it? Why, why is everybody so, uh, like patronizing?

• 37:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  And now I look at it as, as if like, almost, and you know, whatever, this is gonna sound however it sounds, but it's like, almost by like.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Some truly like divine design. Everybody that was in my life was put in my life for a reason. Help keep me on the right path. Even when I wanted to do something bad, they like, they like made it so it's like I didn't even have the opportunity. Like I like, like all these things came together. Even the people who like pushed me out of their life. It's like their life went in like a horrific direction. So it's like they pushed me, they, it's almost like pushing someone out of the way of a car. Cause I'm like, I'm trying to like roll with this kid or be like this kid. And then this kid is like, hey, this is like not for you. And then, and then something even ends up happening to that person or, or they go down a worse path or something. So now everything that's happened, like I can be nothing but, but grateful because like,

• 38:10Speaker 02

  at the time, I'm sure, especially when I used to, this is gonna sound self-deprecating and it's not meant to be. But like the realization that I've, I've come to about myself, especially over time, is that like all of the things about me that I like and that people like are because I'm not like, conventionally cool. Like I'm not like a cool guy who is like, um, wow, I wanna be like that guy the way you wanna be like James Dean. Like I'm not that, I'm not that type of guy. So if I, if I stop trying to be that type of guy and I just like, hey, look, I like Rubik's cubes. I like comic books. I like, and you just, you just become, it's, it's things we've been taught since we were little.

• 38:53Speaker 02

  The best version of yourself, the best like, the most honest version of yourself. That's where all of your like, cool will come from because everyone who likes those things will be like, wow, you openly like those things. Like I'm like, I'm over here doing the Rubik's cube when it used to get slapped out your head. And now people on the internet are like, he did it in a point four seconds. Yeah, now it's becoming a. Yeah, but it's like, if you're like an O, if you're like an OG of that thing, and don't get me wrong, I wasn't even good. So now me, watching me do the Rubik's cube was a waste of time. Cause it wasn't like I was like, hey Trev, you wanna see something cool?

• 39:30Speaker 02

  It'd be like, hey Trev, you wanna see something cool?

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Ah. Ah. Can you mess it up again? Can I restart? It's like, it's like that, but then, like I said, everything in life led me to the point, at least in the feeling, of about two years ago where everything fits into place. I've, I felt like I fit in at different points in my life. When I lived in Chicago and started doing comedy. Yeah. I finally had the, like conduit. I finally had the vehicle for all these things I had ever been and ever done and ever talked like and ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. And then found my people. And then moved into New York, felt like, it did feel like a mistake for the first like six months. It did, like genuinely, it felt like maybe I had made a mistake

• 40:19Speaker 02

  until I got hired at Fallon. But every, everyone that I was meeting, I used to do storytelling open mics, comedy open mics. I'd used to do variety shows, like all this stuff like that. Were you working at that time doing like a job job as they say? Yeah, I was like working in a grocery store. In New York? Yeah. What type of grocery store? Uh, the Trader Joe's variety. Okay. Yeah. What were you doing there? What the? Everything, like I was a cashier. I did everything but fill orders, because I was like, y'all, if you make me, because they would try. Anytime you have a good attitude and like you're on time, so people start trying to give you more responsibility because they're like, this is the person that won't mess it up. But I'm like, y'all, I know my limit. And if you put me on freezer, y'all are gonna have 6,000 ice creams and no frozen turkey.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Like I'm just, I'm telling you that right now. I don't have that attention to detail, you know? And so I was like cashier, didn't want to become a manager, didn't want to become an assistant manager. Why not? Because in my head, I was like, I thought I had found, and I'm glad I was wrong, because I wouldn't be here now. But I've worked at a couple grocery stores and I've worked, you know, odd jobs and stuff like that. And I found that like, At least in most situations, I can be happy. And so I was making enough to live, but I hadn't met any of my goals yet. But I was still doing stand up at night. And so I was like happy, like, like even in unhappiness, happy. You know what I mean? Like you deal with terrible customers or you like you're low on money. So you gotta eat.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Dude, I've talked about this before, but I knew I was broke in Chicago where they put the door knocker thing for the pizza on there. My roommates and I, we see it's a deal because this place just opened. Yeah. Is five, no, it's three pizzas for $15. So it's like every pizza, $5, whatever. We each order a pizza. We get violently sick. And I knew I was broke because I was like, next day I'm like, I'm gonna eat one more slice. I gotta be done with this place. But like in the off chance I was just sick. And then my roommates even like, what do you mean? You were just, we all threw up. And I was like, yeah, but look, maybe this slice will be different and then I'll throw the box away. But like, I'll have money to just waste.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Give this slice a chance, man. Yeah, yeah. And so I, I just found that I was happy. I was, I was so happy. In Chicago, literally just making ends meet, but not even save money. But I was doing stand up at night and figuring myself out and everything. And I feel like now it's just a reminder to like, stay in that place, even as circumstances change. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because now it's like, okay, like I'm not, I'm not um, um, completely broke, but like, what do I need? And it turns out I don't need much. If I can take care of my mom and take care of my aunt.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  And just take care of like myself and my girlfriend, put on good shows, nothing else really matters. So that I don't really need that much money. Like, and so now if you don't need that much money, you don't need to do whatever, whatever, whatever. So now some of that noise gets like shut out a little bit. Because like, yeah, sometimes you, you'll, you'll be in a situation where somebody wants you to do this thing. Somebody wants you to do this thing. And if you don't really know what you want, you might end up doing it and not liking it or looking back on and not liking it. And I'm not saying I love everything I've ever done completely, but like. The the path that the internet and the people that I'm meeting along the way have allowed me is to like

• 43:55Speaker 02

  do things that are completely consistent with how I feel about how my career should go and building a catalog that I think will like stand alone, like like

• 44:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, something that you're proud of because you wanted to do it for the reasons that you wanted to do it, which is a unique moment to get to

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:15Trevor Noah?

  As an artist, but I think as any any human on this planet, I was I was thinking about this morning, exactly what you're saying. I was I was in the shower and I was going. Are you picturing me in the shower now?

• 44:29Trevor Noah?

  So I was in I was in the shower and

• 44:33Trevor Noah?

  I I had this thought genuinely where I was going. It's hard for people to understand, it's hard for any of us to understand this.

• 44:42Trevor Noah?

  Because money is oftentimes the thing that connects you to all choice, power, um, whatever it might be. But pursuing money is almost the worst direction you can ever take. Right? If you say to yourself in life, I'm going to pursue money. You could just take money out of an old lady's wallet, then you've the money is there now.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:07Trevor Noah?

  Right? I think what we haven't been taught for the most part because society doesn't oftentimes tell us enough is that money, especially in a well functioning society, money is a byproduct of a job well done.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:20Trevor Noah?

  You know, and so if you have the luxury of doing the thing that you love doing and you get to do it well. You'll find that money somehow slips into your ether, it it it starts to come in and that's like I say, in a well functioning society, as capitalism goes extreme and it it deteriorates in its late stage. People now can only earn money from certain things.

• 45:44Trevor Noah?

  But when I look at you, I go. It's it's the perfect example, like. You'll tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like this version of Josh Johnson, like the person we know you as today, you couldn't exist the same if the internet wasn't what it is now.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  No, no, I think.

• 46:03Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 46:03Speaker 02

  I know exactly what you mean, and I think about that a lot because I had found some, um, some mainstream and like legacy media success, but not enough to live the way that I'm living or make the choices that I make.

• 46:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like I had done Fallon, I had done Conan, I got like a Comedy Central half hour. I've done the route, like I got new faces for JFL, like I did a lot of the route stuff you're supposed to do.

• 46:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you went, yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  As like an up and comer.

• 46:32Trevor Noah?

  All the stations along the way, yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  And then there's a place that you end up, for some people, it's after they do JFL new faces. For some people, it's after they get their half hour. And for some people, it's like, even after they've been on a sitcom or something like that, where now there's like, there is no more up and coming. You've, you've, you've come.

• 46:52Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  And so what does that, do you know what I mean?

• 46:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you, you can't.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're just here.

• 46:56Trevor Noah?

  You can't win Best New Artist anymore.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:58Trevor Noah?

  There's that.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  They give it to you one time, and if you lose the time you're up for it.

• 47:02Trevor Noah?

  That's it.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  You're also not gonna, you're just, look, I'm new to people, but I'm saying like, the ways in which an industry could.

• 47:09Trevor Noah?

  Elevate you.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Could, could elevate a person along the way, I had got a lot of that stuff. And then there was a gap between, does he have his own show? Is he writing a show? Is he selling shows?

• 47:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

• 47:23Speaker 02

  Is he a touring headlining comedian? Is he? And so there was a gap there. The internet closed that gap, the people closed that gap, and that's why I have a bit more confidence. Because one thing I'll say about the era that we live in now versus even 25 years ago, is that the industry used to be able to close that gap for you. They're like, you are, um, this A-list star, and we're gonna treat you like this A-list star when you're actually really young, just because we, like, as a studio, believe in you.

• 47:50Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  And you used to just be signed to like one studio.

• 47:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  And so anyway, the industry used to close that gap, but then if industry betrayed you, blacklisted you, you'll, you'll see McCarthy stuff, whatever. Once that thing happened, you didn't have connection to the people. So even if the people liked you, they'd be like, oh, why have you been in a movie in forever?

• 48:11Trevor Noah?

  You've been blackballed.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Because no one picked up my calls and no one's calling me, but that can never happen again because like. If you, if you have connection to people and if you've built community, then you'll always be a version of what you're doing now, especially if you're not doing it to be number one. And the thing that we're lucky about, what makes us different from sports, is that like, there can really be no number one.

• 48:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  And so it's like, because there's no number one, you could just be like your number one. You could be like the best you. And for some people, like that, like for, for plenty of people, Trevor Noah is like the GOAT of comedy, right? And that, and it taps into their sensibility, your timing is their timing of how they think, your humor, it connects with everyone that, um, that follows you, that believes that you are like the best of all time. There's gonna be a Chris Rock is the GOAT, Dave Chappelle is the GOAT, like go, go, go, go, go, go, go. But because it's not a foot race.

• 49:09Trevor Noah?

  There is no clock.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  As long as you don't, there, there's no clock. So as long as you don't convince yourself that there's a clock, you can just carry on. You know what I mean?

• 49:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  And so it's like, I wanna be the best like comedic writer ever. I also know that's not gonna happen, but I know that it will happen in someone's mind that connects with my work, and that's enough. And I really want it to happen. I want it to happen in the way where everybody says it. It's not gonna happen. But like, at the same time, chasing that, now like money is like.

• 49:41Trevor Noah?

  But that's what I mean. You, you, it sounds to me like you fell in love with the process, essentially.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:45Trevor Noah?

  Because the process, the process is like the reward that will always yield a return, right? If you fall in love with the process in your life, then the outcome just becomes the bonus at the end of it. You know, and I've seen this with friends who like cooking. Like, they try to get me into cooking because I like food. I like eating food. And then they would go like, you should learn how to cook. And then when I would try to learn how to cook. Even if it came out right at the end, I was like, I don't like this.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:14Trevor Noah?

  I like eating the food.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:15Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean?

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Because when you eat the food and you didn't cook it, you're not sweaty.

• 50:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's what I'm.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Now a sweaty version of me is eating the food.

• 50:22Trevor Noah?

  This is what I'm talking about, man.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Jabby?

• 50:23Trevor Noah?

  I'll just be, I'll just be like, yo, man, I get to the end of this journey.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  What are you guys cooking?

• 50:26Trevor Noah?

  But if you, what do you mean?

• 50:27Speaker 03

  That makes you sweaty.

• 50:29Trevor Noah?

  Oh, it's just processed. You know how it is, man. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 50:35Trevor Noah?

  You don't sweat when you cook.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Maybe that's why.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  What are you guys cooking?

• 50:39Trevor Noah?

  Just anything.

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Give an example of what you made that made you go, hey?

• 50:43Trevor Noah?

  Okay, one, one day I was trying to make a stew. I've only tried it once and one time I was trying to make a stew. And it just involved me with a pot, with water, with ingredients, with the thing.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  You closed the lid?

• 50:53Trevor Noah?

  I had to, no, I had to keep opening the lid to see what was bubbling. I had to keep closing the thing.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  That's normal, that's part of cooking.

• 50:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and in that process.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  How close were you to this lid?

• 51:01Trevor Noah?

  I, I wasn't measuring Eugene, I wasn't measuring my distance to the, maybe this is why I'm not a good cook. I was just like opening, closing, opening and closing.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  It would be very funny if you were later there too close. And you were like, man, cooking is hot. I don't know why. Yeah.

• 51:17Trevor Noah?

  No, but, but what I mean is like, I don't think there's anything wrong with liking or not liking certain things. But I think people take for granted that the, if you fall in love, if you find a passion for the process, then the outcome just becomes a bonus. And if you love the outcome, then your, your joy is always going to oscillate between good and bad, good and bad, good and bad.

• 51:43Speaker 03

  I think that point of view is a privilege. We've had this conversation, but in another form. I'm always like that point, making that point, you can only make it from a point of privilege. So if people with a skill, a rare skill, a talent, like a surgeon who earns hundreds of thousands of dollars a month, can say, you know, I just like operating on people, but you're like, no, no, no. I don't know what I'm gonna eat tonight. So you can pursue your passion.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Yes, when you talk about money.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  No, yes, I'm talking about money versus when people say, no, yes, just, I love the process.

• 52:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  So the average person, I think, this is my opinion, does not have the luxury.

• 52:19Trevor Noah?

  To think about their passion.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:21Trevor Noah?

  But they're thinking about what am I gonna do now? What am I gonna eat now? And obviously, when you tell the story about how you grew up and when you were eating the pizza that made you throw up. If someone would have walked into that dorm room while you were eating five dollar pizza and told you, just enjoy. Just enjoy the process, not about the money.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:37Trevor Noah?

  My man.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  No, that is what people said. They were like, that's like, that's.

• 52:41Trevor Noah?

  And what did you feel?

• 52:42Speaker 02

  No, but I guess I'm I'm thinking also, one, once again, from privilege. It's either privilege or experience, because I think saying fall in love with the process is a thing that comes from the experience of like. If you have. Sometimes it's just good advice from somebody who did it the other way. So, yes, it's from like a point of privilege to say like, don't worry about money. And I'm not saying don't worry about money. I'm saying people have put me in a position where I don't worry about money the same way.

• 53:08Trevor Noah?

  Hmm. So I'm. And I'm also saying.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:10Trevor Noah?

  I'm also saying. I don't necessarily, I think it might be a luxurious way of experiencing your own mind. But I don't think it's an unattainable luxury, right? And here's, here's why I'll say this. When you started comedy. If you remember your journey. It was not paying anything.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 53:26Trevor Noah?

  Comedy literally paid us no, there wasn't even an idea of the possibility. When we were doing comedy in South Africa, starting out. The, the concept of getting paid by anyone or anything. Yeah, we paid to do comedy.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 53:40Trevor Noah?

  There wasn't even like a twenty bucks, well done, no. That came over time, right? But we fell in love. With the process and I, what I mean by that is. I don't think everything has to be contained in one space.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 53:55Trevor Noah?

  Right? So. When you look at. Somebody who likes knitting.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 54:02Trevor Noah?

  I would always, I would always be fascinated watching somebody knit.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 54:06Trevor Noah?

  And I'll go like, what, what are you doing? And they're like, I'm knitting. And I'm like, oh, are you trying to make something? And they go like, well, sometimes they even go, I'll see what it is. I'm just starting with this block for now. And then it will grow into something else and it'll become something. And then I'll decide what I want to make. But they go, I like knitting. Knitting is the thing that they actually enjoy.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 54:23Trevor Noah?

  On the other side of knitting is the garment that you've created. Do you get what I'm saying?

• 54:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:27Trevor Noah?

  And so what I'm saying is. It it it's it's it's noisy. That's why I completely agree with you. It's noisy. It is hard to appreciate process. It is hard to appreciate passion when you're hungry, right? But it's it is those people sometimes who are the ones that'll make you, the ones who can do it in those moments. They're sometimes the the the people who inspire me the most because they can and they do like. When my family was at its worst, you know, my mom loved gardening. We didn't have anything. We did like literally. I remember the nights where it's like we're eating more pani worms because it was like the cheapest thing we could buy. It's like a dried caterpillar type. Well, how would you is it caterpillar? Yeah. That's like the only thing we could afford for a moment. Then at some point, we couldn't even get more pani worms. All we could get was more rojo. That was like it.

• 55:12Trevor Noah?

  And this isn't like a long, it's not years in my life, but like a few months. I just remember we couldn't afford meat. And we couldn't afford a a certain type of protein. And so now we're buying like grass essentially is how it seemed to me as a kid. Because when you introduced this to me late in life, I'm just like this is.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  Eating kale and quinoa all day.

• 55:33Trevor Noah?

  It's ironic, by the way, because I remember the first time someone came with kale in America. Then I was like, I'm not going back. I I escaped this trap. I'm not going back to this. But morrojo and kale are very, I still think like, you know what I mean? But the thing that amazed me was she still found joy in her processes. Just doing something in a garden, going and and and and I think like that's that's what you're talking about. Like when I listen to you. There's an element of Josh Johnson that's just like, you're just like obsessed and in love with the process.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:07Trevor Noah?

  That you're pursuing.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  Because then it's like the thing, I I guess if you were to put yourself back in different moments, right? Because don't get me wrong, I am never, I am never, it's never lost on me that like. I am the exception and not the rule. And so I even tell people, I'm like, look, everybody's on their own journey. I don't want you to think that like. There's there's some aspect of if I can do it, you can do it. And then there's also an aspect of if I can do it, you can do it, being weaponized to keep people in a bad position.

• 56:37Trevor Noah?

  I hate that if I can do it.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because it's like, because people have said that to me who were tall.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  And now I'm like, what do you mean dunk? And they're like, look, you work hard enough. You work on your game. If I can do it, you can do it. Swish. And then I'm like, alright, I believe you. And then brick, brick, brick, brick, brick, because I, because I actually can't. And I also, to be fair, don't love basketball enough to like, learn and fall in love with process enough to even see if I can, right? But now if you're talking about, if you're, if you're talking about a, a, a system where people can make their money or just have like a life, there's just.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Have what they want.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  It's so much more profitable to keep that as a carrot that you hang in front of someone than it is to just let them have it. Because if everyone's okay, less people are, are rich, which is like a side note thing. But the process thing that I'm fall in love with and that I think is like so important is that it started so much longer before anything was working out. The same way that like I've been my, like, the way that I've been myself and like weird. And it didn't, oh, didn't work for like all of life until like a little bit of college it worked. Cause a little bit of college, I'm finally meeting people who are also kind of like me. Then it worked in Chicago. I started doing comedy. That's the, that's the thing I should have been doing this entire time.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Then it worked for a little while in New York and then like I had my ups and downs. And now it works in a big way because I'm finally like doing everything I think that I was meant to do.

• 58:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  And so the reason I say.

• 58:13Speaker 03

  Meant to do.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause, cause then I think that it started in Chicago when I started doing comedy, but I'm working at the grocery store and I'm like working on bits all day, but then also having conversations all day. Cause you, okay, so you would be on register for like two hours. Okay. They do a two hour block. So now I'm talking to people and I'm not necessarily like running bits by people, but I am like getting to know, you get to know your regulars. You get to watch stuff and now it's like.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  It's your audience.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  You're just, yeah, you're just, you're just feeding off of like all these interactions that are so interesting, especially if you decide to be personable because I worked with plenty of people who decided to like be miserable in that moment. But in my head, I'm like, guys, I'm here. Like, there's nowhere else I can be. And so, this is either a waste of my time, which means it's a waste of my life, or it's my life. So now, I'm just here. So then, let me talk to this person, ask him the other day is, let me, like, like, have you had these? Because I haven't had these. I know that's bad to say because I work here, but like, are these good? Because I'm gonna get them if they... And now, I become the person that's personable enough that people got in my line. And so now, you build a rapport with these people. And then, when I'm over here stocking the freezer, stocking the fridge, I'm thinking about bits, or I'm thinking about what people said to me. Yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  So now, when I go up in Chicago, everyone's like, oh, you don't ever repeat, or you don't ever... And it's like, because I'm excited about, like, I'm excited about what this thing is that happened today. Or I'm excited about building on this idea that I had last week, but now I've reworded it, or like, whatever. And so, it seems like a wealth of like, oh, you must just be writing all day. And in my head, I was like, I am, but I'm not. Like, it just came from such a genuine place. It didn't become more like, proper, proper writing, until Fallon. Because I was a monologue writer at Fallon. That's when you had to get into the craft of it. Now, it's like 150 jokes a day, or, you know, like, or you're just, you're even writing... When I was at Fallon, I was try, I was so thirsty to get a joke on.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  I was writing jokes in the hope that like, Jimmy got lost in the building, and then like wandered in my office and was like, hey, what, how you doing? And I'm like, oh, I'm great. I got a whole page of jokes. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, going crazy. Because also, it's like your first job, so you're extra, and like... And it's a major job. Major job, yeah. And then, I got hired at Daily Show. Like, when you hired me, I was like, okay, this is a chance, especially because of how collaborative the process is. This is a chance to take everything I've been writing, all the ideas I'm always having, all the conversations that I have, and like, hopefully, apply them in real time to whatever the news of the day is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right. And then, it like, yeah, I was writing at Daily Show,

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  which then taught me how to tell stories better of things that people had no context for. So like, watching you, I was able to be like, oh, you know what? Like, there's this thing that happened to me, that people won't, um, have any frame of reference for. How do I tell them about that? So when you would talk about South Africa, or when you would talk about your travels, and you're talking to Americans who are the perfect audience of like, untraveled people. Like, everything is new. They'll be like, they'll be like, Malta? Is it chocolate? They like, they, you know, we don't know, cuz it's like, cuz also you, you were the first person that like, showed me how big the world was in a way, and like, talking to you, talking to Celeboho, talk, talking to all these people,

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  showed me how, how

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  well, the world gets on in spite of, and sometimes without the US. Because, cuz growing up here, you're like, this is the, this is the lie that keeps things the way they are, maybe forever. Is that you are taught that the US is number one. We're number one because we deserve it, we're number one on merit, but we're also number one in everything. And so if anything is bad here, best believe it's worse somewhere else in the world, cuz they're not even as good as us. So if you, if you are hungry in America, imagine how hungry you'd be in Mexico. Imagine how hun- and you could even point at other western countries, it's like, they would do, like, I had teachers that would do this, where they'd be like, Australia, nice and everything, but what do they build?

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  What, what, what adventures do they have, like, because it teaches you to have like, like, being, I don't even know where you learn it, but like, being the center of entertainment especially, and entertainment being such a strong, like a strong conveyor of stories and stuff like that. It teaches you a sort of American excellence that probably even used to be earned, but then has slowly been slipping away over time. And now, your assumption is that no matter how bad things get, we could have like, a civil war, and you'd still point at another country and be like, well, they're having a coup, and it's like, yeah, but look at the 99 other countries that are fine today, on like, a regular Wednesday. And so rather than teaching you out of your supposed like, excellence and number one, cuz

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  it's also a very inconvenient truth that like, the number one title comes from like, just like a boxer who's number one and has a team that's built up of people from all sorts of backgrounds with disciplines, there's a number oneness that gets lost in that, oh yeah, well, we needed the scientists to come here. We needed the engineers to come here. We taught some of our people, but then they went over and learned from other people and then came back. Number one is just number one because we're number one. And so then that keeps people in the thing of like, you'll see where's another country, another Western country as well. So you don't even have to worry about like communism, socialism, whatever. Another Western country will figure something out and we still won't change. Because the idea of looking at someone else as an example is unacceptable.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  And so being around you and being around people who had like a different experience of life, being around Joe Opeo, being around all these people was the first time that I was like, not only is like the world obviously much bigger, but like comedy is so much bigger. Because now I like, it made me curious enough to like start watching comedians where I just needed the subtitles. Because I was just like, I was like, let me just like.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  Yep, Joe Opeo subtitles.

• 1:04:22Trevor Noah?

  We're gonna get a dig in at Joe, come on, man.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  But that's, but like, so every, I said all that to say that like.

• 1:04:30Speaker 03

  Call it that?

• 1:04:31Speaker 02

  It's not, no, no, it's like, it's not lost on me that not only have I been incredibly fortunate, I've been given a lot of opportunities. And then even within those opportunities, I was like, put in the right place at the right time to have the right experience to make what I'm doing now possible.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  And that's the part, you see, that's the part where whenever you get great advice about pursuing your passion, no one ever says at the end, that's the long way of saying, do the thing that you can, when you can. Then someone might select you to be the person that can. And ends up becoming the person that will. And also what I realized was, when you were telling your story, because I worked in retail for a long time, and I realized I had the most amount of fun doing comedy when I was in retail before I knew it was comedy. There was no pressure, you had to refresh your jokes. Yeah, there's someone coming in, in and out all the time, but they've seen you so many times and you can't say the same thing to them and there you are now at Fallon. Now you're doing this thing for a living.

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  And they've said to you, you don't have to worry about the money now, just, just do this thing. And then all of a sudden it becomes difficult. And I thought there was a phase where comedy was making fun of people that are doing their best. To try and survive, you know, there would be times where like, hey, imagine you guys coming back from work. Hey, work, how's work? Ooh, every day, traffic. And I'm like, yo, when did we get here?

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  Like, I started hating the way I was doing some comedy, because I would, and I'd realize it was all about, for me personally, it was about fitting in. Because even in retail, when you're working there, you realize that you're not fitting in here. That when you get out, you're like, how shitty was that job?

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  But it came with how people measure success, maybe?

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And it also just comes from a place of like, this is how you're supposed to feel.

• 1:06:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  And it's like, if you keep falling for how you're supposed to feel, I mean, that's, that's very convenient for someone. You'll keep buying what you're supposed to buy, you'll keep, you'll keep voting for who you're supposed to vote for, you'll keep, and then you, you just have to, it, it, there's a level of curiousness that I understand that when you're hungry, because I've been hungry.

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  When you're hungry, you're thinking about hungry. So you're not thinking about some of this like, the hoity-toy stuff, and it doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you a dumb person, it doesn't make you less than. It's just literally, that's why, that's why it's so convenient and so important to keep, to keep you,

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  like, not just down, but like, to keep a controlled, I, I started working on this bit a long time ago, and I did not like, finish it in a way that's like worth it, maybe I'll get there one day, but I'm like, you don't get paid to do your job. You get paid not to riot. They pay you just before riot.

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  Yes, but you.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  If they paid, if they paid you any less, you'd riot. And they know that. So they're like, because you gotta remember, especially in the US, we did have slavery. And they've slowly been trying to get back. As, like, as soon as they lost it, they were like, that was some good stuff. That's crazy. It's like, it's like having Antimandia in the, uh, in, in, in Black Panther, yeah. And so it's like, imagine they took all of it away, you gotta use regular metal now. And you're like, guys, I'm getting shot. Like, this is, this is, it's getting through, right? So now, so now, I'm, I'm coming from a place of like, I understand that even. Even if, we're not even gonna get like conspiratorial with it, right?

• 1:07:42Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  Even in the way that we say left and right works as a function to keep us at the tug of war and the, and the middle of the rope in the middle. Because the fact that like, there, it can't be lost on us that like somehow every one, as in one person, is a full representative of the right. And every one person, just one person, is a full representative of the left.

• 1:08:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  So, based on algorithms, after something happens, something, something, uh, whatever, whatever you wanna picture, you are by algorithm and by who you've chosen to follow either served contempt or compassion.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  And you are served contempt or compassion as in that is the way it is. This is your window into the internet. And your window isn't wrong, but it's not the full picture. So then you'll say, everyone on the left is doing this, everyone on the right is doing this, and then someone who argues with you, they saw a different mix. They saw a different cocktail of compassion and contempt. So now they are being like, no, that's not happening. This is what's happening. Both are happening. Everyone is everything. You're gonna have QAnon or BlueAnon or whatever, and I'm not making like false equivalencies. I'm just saying that like, we're all capable of, of like everything. This is what makes a person, a person. And so I think that keeping you there keeps you broke. Keeping you there keeps you like, you know, complying without realizing you're complying

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  or like, and so when someone especially is trying to like follow a passion and someone says, don't necessarily worry about the, the money, you're gonna be worried about something. Cause now that I'm not worried about the money, I worry about the quality. You know what I mean?

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's always gonna be something that you.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you. So like, so that, that is a thing that like pops out at me where I'm like, I don't know when I'll be like, because you, like, your body tells you when you get old. You're not, you don't say a number and go, I'm old now. You get out of bed and you pop. And you're like, I'm not used to popping. And that's what quality does.

• 1:09:41Speaker 03

  There we go. Let's go back to complying. You said, say that thing you said again about complying. We don't, we're trying to resist to comply?

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  No, it's just what keeps you complying is that like, it's very easy if like, if Trevor wants something, right? And what he, and what he wants is the, the last slice of pizza, right? It's very easy for him to get that last slice of pizza that we could all three have. If he keeps us distracted fighting about the pizza.

• 1:10:06Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  Me, now I'm looking at you, you're looking at me and he's eating.

• 1:10:08Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:10:09Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  And I feel like that's how a larger portion of every political game and every uh like socioeconomic game works. And I think that by me being, you know, left and you being right and us arguing and only focusing on each other. You forget that like, we were initially fighting over the pizza. And now where's the pizza? It's gone. Well, it's gone because it's your fault. No, it's your fault.

• 1:10:32Speaker 03

  You know, I think, I think society made

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  that argument very easy for politicians and people who run countries after covid. Because we got to see what class really is.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  It happened in real time. Uh, rich people did not die in droves.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  Because you also saw Madha in that bathtub. And I was like, that's going to raccolize somebody.

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, some countries and some people.

• 1:10:54Speaker 02

  Been in that bathtub. And then her being like, oh, we're all going through it. I'm like, not the bathtub.

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  That's, guys, if I, I need you, I need, I'm telling you right now, if we're ever having a global crisis and I post a video in a bathtub talking about how we all struggling, I need you to call me.

• 1:11:14Trevor Noah?

  There were a lot of people, yeah, there were a lot of people who were out of touch in that moment.

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, but I'm saying that in a grand scale, that's what you're experiencing as inequality and someone having to look at the other side and go, I'm stuck here.

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  I'll even pitch you this.

• 1:11:28Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Take, take uh like any sort of like Hollywood example, acting, comedy, whatever, right?

• 1:11:34Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  This is, this is also how it happens.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  I'm not speaking to the merits of anyone's talent. I'm just saying what I've noticed.

• 1:11:43Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Is that there will be a certain amount of positions. There'll be like the D E I positions, right? And you could also tell that the D E I position, mass people get it, D E I. This is the thing that tells people like, this is how many we're gonna do.

• 1:11:58Trevor Noah?

  It's the quota.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like this will be the quota.

• 1:12:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:01Speaker 02

  So I don't even know why you get mad at DEI because they've already basically said we'll only get twenty. So like you won't have to worry about them taking your job, maybe you, but like as a large swath of the industry, we're gonna let twenty in, right? So now people are mad at these like DEI jobs, jobs only established to try to like find some sort of base, all the stuff, all the stuff we already know, but then people are mad at them. These people now feel like they have to prove themselves. They're mad at the, you know, the other people coming at them and everything. Meanwhile, there is no quota and there is no, um, there is no number that is capped for the amount of like legacy kids that get into the right colleges

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  or nepo babies that get the job or whatever. And it's like, it's like that thing, obviously some, some people are waking up to that fact and being like, oh yeah, why are there only twenty spots for anybody? Forget DEI.

• 1:12:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right.

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  And it's like that, but that's also part of the game.

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  But that's what a quota does. A quota exposes how many spots are no longer available to those it was available to before.

• 1:13:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's true. That's true, actually.

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  So now you can quantify it. You can count. Oh, twenty people used to be there, now they're not anymore because these people are there. Quotas are never about if the person can do their job or not, because I'll tell you this much. People who are put in because of affirmative action will never outnumber the people that were there already. It will not be fifty fifty. It will not be fifty you were here, legacy, fifty you are new, we're just putting you in. Because then you could measure, how did the quality of work drop since the new people came in? But if you put twenty percent in and the other eighty percent, they stop performing their duties because they're disgruntled by the people that they feel like they don't deserve to be there, then that's when the quality of work drops. Then you can always blame it on the new guy.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  Sure, sure.

• 1:13:46Trevor Noah?

  You know, you know what I love listening to this, like, these are always the moments when somebody like walks into a room and there's comedians talking. And then I'll always hear them say, I thought you guys told more jokes.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:01Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, I've always wondered. I was just listening to you guys now and I was like, it's, it's really interesting to me how comedians, no matter where they are in the world, will always get into the, is it the anomalies? Is it the inconsistencies? Is it the, do you know what I'm saying? No, I was just listening to this now and I was going, it's, it's funny how.

• 1:14:24Trevor Noah?

  Because comedy, let's think of it this way. Because comedy is like the icing on a cake. It's sweet, it's generally very delicious. It's it's easy to consume. And people often think that the raw ingredient for it is also that in that way. And I know sugarcane is, please don't get me wrong.

• 1:14:43Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:14:43Trevor Noah?

  But I'm just saying, I'm watching this right now. And no, no, forgive me. It made me wonder, it's like. I wonder if like you get into comedy because you're seeing an inconsistent world? Or if part of comedy helps you process the inconsistency of the world?

• 1:15:00Speaker 02

  Maybe, I mean, I imagine it's like if you if you're a singer, right? And you're like, I can do something real weird with my throat.

• 1:15:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  I could do something real weird with my voice. And then you do it to drums and people are like, I think I'd pay to see that. It's like, it's like you fall into the thing sometimes.

• 1:15:17Trevor Noah?

  The thinking of it, like, okay, let me ask you this question. When when was the first time in your life when you can remember thinking this didn't make this doesn't make sense?

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  Uh, okay, so.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  You know how?

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  This is two moments that stick out to me. Uh, you know how the dentist gives you a lollipop?

• 1:15:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. You see, there you go.

• 1:15:41Speaker 02

  And I was like, hey, my man, my man, what you doing? What you you trying to catch me slipping? I didn't have any cavities and now you giving me sugar? This is crazy.

• 1:15:51Trevor Noah?

  How old were you when you had this thought?

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  Maybe ten, I don't know, like, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but that's but you see what I mean? It's like something like that. What was your what was the first what's the first thing you can remember thinking this does not make sense?

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  I think it was when I was watching my grandfather and my parents watching the news and believing all of it.

• 1:16:13Trevor Noah?

  You, wait, you were watching them watch the news?

• 1:16:16Speaker 03

  Yes, and they were believing all of it. Because in my head, I was like, this this what they're saying here didn't happen here.

• 1:16:22Trevor Noah?

  Wait, what?

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  Wherever this happened, whatever they were saying in the news, in Soweto, in wherever. I was like, yeah, where we are, everything is fine.

• 1:16:31Trevor Noah?

  So, oh, so you were going?

• 1:16:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it was burning on TV.

• 1:16:33Trevor Noah?

  Okay, got it.

• 1:16:34Speaker 03

  At that place, and I'm sure by now they've extinguished the fire. Because the seven o'clock news, it's dark outside.

• 1:16:39Trevor Noah?

  That's so funny.

• 1:16:40Speaker 03

  But when they shut the news, the sun was out.

• 1:16:43Trevor Noah?

  This is actually really funny.

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  Why are we worried about the emotions as if it's happening outside? And if it's happening now, then I'd watch them getting emotionally invested at seven o'clock about, oof, so bad out there.

• 1:16:55Trevor Noah?

  That's fascinating. So you, you were thrown by the fact, I mean, you see, it's extremely logical as well. Because you're going, it's not burning outside.

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  No, it's not even, the sun is not even out anymore.

• 1:17:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it's daytime in the news, but it's nighttime now.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  And everyone who was supposed to do their job did it. The fire trucks were there, the cameras were there, the reporter filed the story.

• 1:17:15Trevor Noah?

  And so you were sitting there.

• 1:17:16Speaker 03

  They put on a jacket, yeah.

• 1:17:19Speaker 03

  In fact, in fact, in my head, I was like, the reporter that reported on the story is also home watching the news now.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  You know what's so funny about this is that it's the third level of the thing. I thought you were just gonna say, why do they believe in everything because people lie sometimes? That's just even much more of a child thing.

• 1:17:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, no.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  You're like, you're like, no, no. The car that was on fire has clearly been extinguished by now.

• 1:17:43Speaker 03

  Long ago, insurance has been contacted, the claim is being processed. Now we're just waiting for opening hours for tomorrow so you can look at another car if you really want one. But I would watch the real emotion and my parents being invested on them, yo, there's bad out there. And I'm like, no, it's great in the air. We're watching these people, our car is not burning, our house is not on fire.

• 1:18:03Trevor Noah?

  Point is just going, this doesn't make sense.

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  Yes, and also because I think when I started exploring comedy, I realized that's what people are doing. They're reacting to something that I say that's not real. I say things and then they're like, yeah, Ned. And I'm like, yeah. And I think that's why maybe we see comedians unable to fight extremism. Uh, when people are being extreme about their views and ideas and rallying people and filling up arenas and domes. And people are just coming to listen to them and social media. We can't say anything. We can't fight that because we're essentially doing the same thing, but we're doing it on a happy side. We're galvanizing people to come into a room to laugh, but there's on the other end of it, it has never been like it is now. Where you find in the other side of things, the same arena.

• 1:18:46Trevor Noah?

  Oh, that's, that's.

• 1:18:47Speaker 03

  Two weeks from now.

• 1:18:47Trevor Noah?

  I would agree with that, actually.

• 1:18:48Speaker 03

  There's someone who's going, we are getting the guns. We are going to fight.

• 1:18:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a, there's a, there's a different type. It's, ah, man, that's an interesting thought. There is like a.

• 1:18:59Trevor Noah?

  It feels like at least more and more places in the world have an economy. Or there's like a, a circuit around anger and hatred in a way that it didn't exist for a long time.

• 1:19:13Speaker 03

  Trouble making thanks to stand up has become performative. So if you look at all the rallies of all people stirring up what we call trouble.

• 1:19:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  They also have a stage.

• 1:19:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. And they tell jokes, by the way.

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  And now they don't have paper anymore in their hand.

• 1:19:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, they tell jokes as well.

• 1:19:27Speaker 03

  They mess up, play music a little bit, mess around and get people worked up.

• 1:19:30Trevor Noah?

  Some of them tell the same jokes. I mean, they do. They work it like a set. You remember back in the day, and I mean, he still sort of does it now, but not as much. I feel like now he's like retired. Trump used to work out bits. Yeah. On the campaign trail.

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:42Trevor Noah?

  So he would say something, he would do it, and then he'd go, I used to say that and it didn't work. I used to say it, didn't work. Now it works. The one that he had was, um, I'm trying to think of which one he had. I think it was Crooked Hillary. Or one of those, but he had a previous version. Yeah, Cricket Hillary. And he had it, and he had a version that was like, it didn't hit.

• 1:20:00Speaker 03

  But he found the one.

• 1:20:01Trevor Noah?

  And then he found like a switch and he changed it. But he said, which was interesting to me, he said. At a rally.

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:20:09Trevor Noah?

  I used to say it like this and people didn't respond.

• 1:20:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:12Trevor Noah?

  Now I say it like this and they do respond.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  Yes, but stand up was the original research and development of how to become extreme in an idea. When people say, okay, there's no paper, it's just a microphone, just stage.

• 1:20:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:24Speaker 03

  Just give me a group of people, don't sit down even, just stand up, let's do this thing. Because music did not have the same impact as now when you have a singular person trying to convince a horde of people to take action. But the action now is the other way around. It's no longer just go home and be happy.

• 1:20:39Trevor Noah?

  It's not action to happiness.

• 1:20:40Speaker 03

  Yes. Also, stand up did a lot to remind people how great their lives are. But this form of extremism, which is performative as well, is doing a lot to remind people how shitty their lives are. Whereas we would make fun of someone who has a normal ninety-five job. These people are saying, why do you have a normal ninety-five job?

• 1:20:58Trevor Noah?

  Don't press anything. We've got more. What now? After this. Everybody has that oddly specific thing that they're curious about. Maybe it's restoring old watches. Maybe it's Japanese ceramic making. Maybe it's watching someone explain why one bridge in a remote area of Norway is secretly better than all the other bridges in the world. YouTube always has exactly what you're looking for, even when you didn't know you were looking for it. With YouTube Premium, those deep dives feel even smoother. You get ad-free viewing, but you also get background play when you need your hands free. And you get offline downloads, so you can keep watching wherever you happen to be, even if you happen to be off the grid.

• 1:21:43Trevor Noah?

  It's everything you already love about YouTube, just somehow even better. Yeah, one of my favorite YouTube Premium features is smart downloads. Because how many times have you gone somewhere and realized, ah, I forgot to download anything? And now you're on the way to the airport and you're like, download, download, download, download. You're on the plane, download, download, download, download. There's no wifi. I wish I downloaded. Now, all of those things that you were gonna watch are just on the internet. Smart downloads basically thinks ahead for you. It automatically downloads recommended videos based on what you like to watch. So even when you forget to prepare, YouTube Premium didn't. I love it. It's like packing for a trip and discovering somebody already remembered the thing you always leave at home. It's always the underwear.

• 1:22:26Trevor Noah?

  If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium. Terms apply. Cancel anytime.

• 1:22:36Trevor Noah?

  I think one of the things you realize when you start caring about clothes is that simple doesn't have to mean basic. Because a T-shirt is a T-shirt. Until you find the right T-shirt. Ooh, then suddenly you're talking about the cut, the fit, the weight, the way it falls on your body. Then you're like, no, no, no, you don't understand. Look at the sleeve. And that's what I've really enjoyed about Quince. One of my favorite things is their Pima Cotton Lux Touch T-shirts. And it's become one of those pieces I keep reaching for. The cotton has this really smooth, premium feel to it. The fit is great. And it just lays really nicely. And I think that's what you sometimes take for granted with simple clothes.

• 1:23:18Trevor Noah?

  When they're done really well, they become the foundation of an entire outfit. You can throw on a jacket, a sweater, whatever you want, but everything works because you started with the right thing. That's what I like about Quince. It feels premium without feeling like you're trying too hard. It's effortless. So find your next four favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. Hello over there. Oh, and if Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was What Now with Trevor Noah. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:24:09Trevor Noah?

  It's amazing how powerful it is when you switch it. I, you know, it's funny, I, I, I, you know, because you, you, you are in a moment right now. That, that's amazing and it's new and it's, it's, it's obviously being looked at from so many different places. You know, so like it's Josh Johnson, the magazines look at you, the entertainment industry looks at you. And then people often phone me and they go, what do you think of what Josh is doing? And they all have a different lens through which they wish to see it. You know, what do you think it means for the entertainment industry? What do you think it means for comedy? What do you think it means for? And I remember once, I was trying to think of this for myself and I went, one of the things you're doing with your stand-up, like the sets that you're doing now every single week on YouTube,

• 1:24:53Trevor Noah?

  is in a crazy way, I was like,

• 1:24:57Trevor Noah?

  You're also just like establishing a bit of reality. I don't know if you've noticed that, and I don't know if you're doing it on purpose.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  I mean, some people say that what I'm trying to do is be like, this thing, like, what we have become, I think is a problem. Like as comedians and what we mean to people and what we and and and how we like, structure our careers around that thing. I think that people are playing games right now that are gonna gonna bite them eventually. Where you play with people who are struggling, you play with people who are like, based on like even no fault of their own, but a systemic level, they are mentally unstable. You play with people whose only hope is something that is like, you know, in the ether as a conspiracy.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  You play with all that, you make your money, and then you think you go home. But especially if you're chasing money, especially if you like money, and especially if you can't stay at home. You keep doing it and you keep doing it and you keep doing it and then, you you become a different thing to them than you can ever get back. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:26:05Trevor Noah?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  And so so like, I think if I stay as as much of a stand up as I can, and obviously sometimes I talk about politics, but my thing is that I talk about everything. So the people who think that I talk about one thing, I can tell what videos they've watched. I've been told by people that I only talk about black culture. Then I've been told by other people, I only talk about Trump. Then I've been told about from other people that I I do like regular jokes again. Then I am told by people that they're like, I love your stories, I love this story, whatever. And it's like, I I don't think, and this is, I'm not upset about or whatever, but I don't think that people are fitting into the picture that I am trying to. And as a result, talking about everything.

• 1:26:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but you see, this is, this is, I do get upset about it, not just on your behalf, but on society's behalf.

• 1:26:54Trevor Noah?

  One of the best things I ever learned was from a friend who was a computer scientist. And he taught me about a concept known as the second system effect. And he said, whenever you're programming, one of the things you learn as a coder is when you change one aspect, you might think you're fixing one thing. You don't realize the second system effect that is created by that. You've created a second system and the effect of that is something that you may not have been aware of. You know?

• 1:27:25Trevor Noah?

  I think of that with algorithms.

• 1:27:29Trevor Noah?

  We used to live in a world where the broadcast was decided by a few and it went to the many.

• 1:27:39Trevor Noah?

  So one news network, a hundred million people would watch it. One journalist, fifty million people would know them. You know, one newspaper could define a whole country's trajectory. And then over time, that that started diminishing, like their their power started going down. But what also started happening is it started diffusing. So there'd be more newspapers, more news agencies, more television shows, more movies. So there's more who have less power, more who have less power. This is a good thing because reality shouldn't be defined by one person or one small group.

• 1:28:18Trevor Noah?

  But then we get to the point of the algorithm. And the algorithm does this on steroids. It becomes super, super, super tuned to getting as few people as possible, or rather as many people as possible, an opportunity to talk to as many people as possible. And you you like cut down where the message goes from and who it goes to. It's like every, it's diffused, you know what I mean? It's like everyone can say it to everyone everywhere. But then what it also does is it says, I'm just gonna give you this slice of the reality. You know what I mean? So now Josh Johnson's out there trying to be the full human being who is Josh Johnson.

• 1:29:02Trevor Noah?

  The algorithm goes, I noticed Trevor that you really liked Josh Johnson's stories about hair. I'm not just gonna give you all of his hair stuff, just you and you and him Afros, that's all I'm giving you. And then it goes Eugene, I noticed you you like the thing when Josh Johnson was talking about working in a grocery store. I'm just gonna give you his retail stuff. And now you extrapolate this into politics and views on the world. And what's crazy and terrifying to me is that there's a person out there who only knows one slither of Josh Johnson.

• 1:29:33Trevor Noah?

  And as you said, they either have contempt or compassion for that person or that side of you. And I go if, as we get to the second system effect of everything going to everyone in the most perfect way. You don't have one big broadcast, you have a billion small broadcasts. But those billion small broadcasts are only your world now. And where before you had to share a world where a car was burning for everyone, your family is watching the news. Now you watch the news, you watch the news, you watch, everyone in the house is watching different news, but they're all living in the same house.

• 1:30:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:06Trevor Noah?

  And I I I genuinely, the reason I'm upset about it is not like anger, I'm like, I'm almost terrified because I go. What does what does that do to us when we don't see the full complexity of each other? Like you and I talk about this all the time. I go. I I wanna live in a world where more people see friends disagree.

• 1:30:23Trevor Noah?

  Because we make it seem like people disagree because they don't live in the same world. You know, like when you walked in today, we were watching videos on the internet about mediums and psychics and all of that stuff. And I said to you as my friend, I was like, Emma, I don't believe this, but there's also something here that I don't get. There's something I don't get and I I'm not, I'm not gonna say it's not real, but I'm letting you know, my current position is I don't believe this. And then you're going, I do believe this and let me tell you why. And we're sharing this with.

• 1:30:52Trevor Noah?

  But we don't exist on, you know, like, opposite ends of anything.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:56Trevor Noah?

  There are some parts of you that are far away from me.

• 1:30:58Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:30:58Trevor Noah?

  And there are some parts of you that I can't separate from my own skin. We are the same in that way.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:03Trevor Noah?

  And that, that's a big thing that worries me is I go, imagine if somebody like Josh Johnson, who in my opinion is one of the kindest, most caring, most considerate people. Imagine if they could slice you into slithers of an idea. What are they doing to the rest of everyone in a society? Do you know what I mean?

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  Sure, and also through the structure of like, what keeps you on? They follow behavior. So because they follow behavior, we assume that everyone always wants to be agreed with.

• 1:31:28Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:29Speaker 02

  Some people actually, and the algorithms have already figured this out, because it happens to me. It's like, some people through being curious about what other people think are served nothing but bad, like, I would just say bad stuff.

• 1:31:44Trevor Noah?

  Oh man, that, that happened to my Twitter.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  So then, it's like, it's like, it, it then makes me feel like, oh, everyone's so angry and hateful and every, and then, then this, okay, no one, no one's on board with this idea. I've talked about this idea with friends. I did this idea at a show, right?

• 1:32:03Trevor Noah?

  Alright, go.

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  I was like, guys, well, they found now, it's, it's like, it's like, they finished a study that half the internet is bots. Isn't that great? And then everybody's like, why would that be great? I'm like, guys, this is way less Nazis than we thought. Just imagine if you thought there was a room with a hundred Nazis in it and it's two. Two's still bad, but two's not a hundred. And then, then one of my friends was saying, but yeah, isn't it horrible though that somebody would go to the trouble of engineering the, the troll farm to make us think there's more Nazis?

• 1:32:33Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  Yes, that's still not as bad as a hundred actual Nazi. If you had, if you had a hundred, a hundred, uh, cakes at your door that say the N-word and two Nazis, you'd be way less scared than if there were a hundred Nazis at your door.

• 1:32:50Trevor Noah?

  With two cakes.

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, with two cakes.

• 1:32:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, we gotta keep the cakes.

• 1:32:53Speaker 02

  We gotta keep the cakes. But like, the fact that this bot problem is actually so big, it both means that like, To me, at least, I could be wrong about this. I like this view. I'm actually on board with this, actually. It's an optimistic way of looking at it. It also means that the companies also like are artificially propping themselves up. We think that they are like the full, um, purveyors might be the right word, but that they are the full end all be all of human connection now. And that would be advantageous for us to believe that because we would then go to them for the communication. Yeah. First of all, everyone forgets outside. If you guys, the fact that people, even in New York, people talk about New York,

• 1:33:36Speaker 02

  most people are so much more polite than any internet comments that you can would ever have you believe. Yes, definitely. People bump into me, they apologize. Because you carry nunchucks, of course. Yeah, hundred percent. Let the hair get frizzy. But like, but I just find that that thing clued me in that, okay, now, I already try to take a beat. I already, I already, to my detriment, don't get angry enough about bad things happening in real time, even when they happen to me. Sometimes someone's rude to me and then they walk away and then I'm like, actually, that wasn't okay, right? I already tried to take a step back as my like personal. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Now, I take a second step back, especially when I'm online, because I'm like,

• 1:34:20Speaker 02

  is this person real? Now, that sort of like, that sort of thing could drive a person crazy. But to me, because I'm also being served so much like hateful stuff, and because hateful stuff is more engaging than love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does then make me go, okay, what's the likelihood that people spreading love are bots? And people spreading hate are bots? This is a hateful thing that I see. And it also isn't like original. This is how I feel like I'm getting good at picking out the bots. Because then when some racist happens and they're like, they're like, we should get him fired for his job. And then they're like, probably doesn't have a job to fire from. And then the next three people are like, probably doesn't have a job to fire from, probably doesn't have a job to fire from. I'm like, all right, maybe this is like one angry person.

• 1:35:05Speaker 02

  That's just being multiple, yeah. And maybe no racist people, who knows? Because the comments are racist. The other person's just angry. They're like, we should get him fired from his job. This is insane, right? And so now, it's like, it changed my like outlook on the world in a way that might be naive and it might be a little bit like, um... Um, wishful thinking. But it's still is like information that I'm basing my.

• 1:35:32Trevor Noah?

  No, I I think it's I think it's the right way to see it, actually. It's like finding. You you know, we've had a lot of conversations on the podcast with with different. I mean, everyone from, you know, doctors who are here to talk about how to how to find the best in your kids. We talk to world leaders. One of the common threads I find is like finding the hope, you know? And what you're saying ties back into that is finding. You you have to find that thing. You got to find you were hopeful enough to eat the second slice of pizza. And desperate. Yeah, fourth. Yeah, fourth.

• 1:36:06Speaker 02

  The three were the night before.

• 1:36:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I I like this. What type of pizza was it, by the way?

• 1:36:11Speaker 02

  It was just pepperoni pizza. There's no reason for this to be poison.

• 1:36:14Trevor Noah?

  Can you eat pepperoni pizza today?

• 1:36:15Speaker 02

  Yes, because, okay, I've been poisoned many times, but there are certain types of.

• 1:36:20Trevor Noah?

  This man said it like a badger. That's how Judge was like, I have been poisoned many times.

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  There was a time in my life where if food was two fifty, I would eat it no matter what. That was the most adventurous I've ever been. Now, when I actually go places and someone's like, oh, try this, it's a delicacy, but it look a little bit like like squid guts. I'm like, I think I'm okay.

• 1:36:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:39Speaker 02

  But if you had, if it had been two fifty in twenty fourteen in Chicago, I'd be like, hey, bottoms up, right? And so the the time I got poisoned at the Chinese place, it took me years and years and years to eat Chinese again. Because everything about the feeling, everything about the smell, everything about the violent, whatever. Now, it it got to a point for a year. Anytime I pass like any sort of Szechuan place, I was I was like, I could feel it coming.

• 1:37:07Trevor Noah?

  I'm so hungry now. You just got me hungry.

• 1:37:11Trevor Noah?

  You just said Szechuanese food. I started thinking of pig trotters. Are you in, Eugene?

• 1:37:17Trevor Noah?

  I don't even think you understand. You just, oh man, sorry, your pain. Tell us about your pain again.

• 1:37:22Speaker 02

  But it's just, I've never drank in my life, but it's the closest.

• 1:37:26Trevor Noah?

  Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  No, what?

• 1:37:28Trevor Noah?

  Whoa, what? You can't just.

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  I thought you knew.

• 1:37:30Trevor Noah?

  You can't just drop bombs like that in your life? I knew you don't drink.

• 1:37:34Speaker 02

  No, no, I never drank.

• 1:37:35Trevor Noah?

  You have never consumed alcohol?

• 1:37:37Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:37:38Trevor Noah?

  Nothing, even in church, nothing?

• 1:37:39Speaker 02

  No, no, we didn't go to that type of church.

• 1:37:41Trevor Noah?

  Church? Yeah, bro, there's some churches that give you the blood of Jesus and it's wine.

• 1:37:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, some are wine. We had, we had Welch's.

• 1:37:48Trevor Noah?

  Oh, the, the grape juice?

• 1:37:49Speaker 02

  Grape juice.

• 1:37:49Trevor Noah?

  Okay, okay, okay, okay. All right. Never consumed, not, we're not talking about never drunk, never consumed alcohol. Is there a reason for this?

• 1:37:59Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, it, it, so initially, I was definitely, before I was like of age, too scared to get in trouble.

• 1:38:06Trevor Noah?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  Then I was like not, um, then, then I really went to this transition where I became known as like the sober guy.

• 1:38:16Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:38:17Speaker 02

  Like, that'll be the guy who like walks you back to your dorm, whatever.

• 1:38:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:21Speaker 02

  Then I was broke.

• 1:38:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, Josh.

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  So then I was broke. But then this is also what made me useless, though, is that I can't drive. So then I couldn't even be the designated driver. I would just be in the car with the designated driver and everybody else sitting in the back, sick. And I'm like, y'all, y'all paid too much for this. So then, um, then I moved to Chicago.

• 1:38:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that story, can I just say, that story takes on a whole new complexity of annoying. It's one thing for somebody to be hanging out with you at a party, drinking with you, being like, have you guys noticed how much we pay for this alcohol? We could be paying way less. No, sober Josh is just standing there pointing at your drink, being like, you could have saved fifty dollars. You could have saved twenty-five dollars. You could have saved seventeen dollars. All right. All right. Shotgun, shotgun.

• 1:39:12Trevor Noah?

  This is so wild.

• 1:39:13Speaker 02

  And then when I moved to Chicago, I didn't have money to afford to like a new thing. And then after I moved to New York, I felt like, even though I was still in like my mid twenties, I felt like I had missed a little bit of the boat. And that if I were to find out, because the way you find your drink and the way you find out how much you can drink is through trial and error. And the errors get less and less cute the older you get.

• 1:39:38Trevor Noah?

  This is true.

• 1:39:39Speaker 02

  And so now I'm like, ah, yeah, I missed it. Because now also.

• 1:39:43Trevor Noah?

  So there's no like curiosity even that makes you, and I'm not advocating for it by the way.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  No, no, not really.

• 1:39:48Trevor Noah?

  I'm intrigued by this.

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  The other reason was that I was like, I don't think I can do anything like smoke or drink or any of that. Um, especially like it was like a focus thing as well because I was like, I want to be able to take care of my mom, take care of my aunt and like, you know, just like make sure that they're good. Right? Because like, and especially after like my dad passed and everything. And so then anything like that just seemed like um, a potential distraction. And just from the outside looking in, I had never seen anyone be their best self drunk, even the happy drunks.

• 1:40:24Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  There were some people that are like, oh, he's so fun when he's drunk. And I'm like, y'all know he's like fun, regular, right?

• 1:40:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:30Speaker 02

  But you just gotta ask him the right questions.

• 1:40:32Trevor Noah?

  And so. How, how old were you when your dad passed?

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  Um, twenty six, I think twenty six, I could have been twenty five.

• 1:40:38Trevor Noah?

  Did you feel like that, um, because I'm, I'm listening to you and it sounds like to me, it jolted you into like a different type of manhood or responsibility than, than you felt before.

• 1:40:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, especially because I was, I was now going to like, hopefully live longer than my dad.

• 1:40:56Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 1:40:56Speaker 02

  And so now it's like, I already had, what felt crazy to me is that I, my dad, pretty much, if I have the math right, I was the age my.

• 1:41:09Speaker 02

  Dad was when he had me when he died. So I'm like twenty five, twenty six. I'm pretty sure he had me at twenty five, twenty six. So just as I was like gaining an appreciation for what my dad must have been going through and have a kid.

• 1:41:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:23Speaker 02

  I like lose my dad. And so these are conversations I never end up getting to have with him of like, hey, just so you know, like I get, I get, I get you a little bit more now. I know what I, I can't know what it was like to be a baby with me.

• 1:41:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:38Speaker 02

  I can't know what it was like to have like annoying cries. They're like, eh? You know what I mean?

• 1:41:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:43Speaker 02

  Cause I'm inquisitive. I like, I can't go back in time and like really get it, but I'm starting to get it. Cause I can't imagine having to like deal with what you and my mom dealt with when you were um my age.

• 1:41:58Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:41:58Speaker 02

  Me being this now. Then losing my dad, I was like, oh yeah, like anybody can go. So now I make sure, or at least do my best to like, I'm still not perfect at it, but like, everyone that I love, I let them know all the time and I don't worry about being embarrassed. Cause it's like, I, I told my dad I loved him the last time and, and wasn't feeling sure that he heard me. You know what I mean? And I had the opportunity to tell my dad that I loved him plenty of times before he got sick. And so it's like, I never want to waste that again on anybody. And like, I've lost people since then and

• 1:42:37Speaker 02

  got to feel at least somewhat better because every time, I'm not saying this to like to, to freak you out, but it's like every time I leave someone, I'm like, they could die.

• 1:42:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that does freak me out.

• 1:42:50Speaker 02

  So like, I'm, I'm sorry.

• 1:42:51Trevor Noah?

  Don't put that juju on me Ricky Bobby.

• 1:42:53Speaker 02

  But I'll tell you, I love you all the time, just so you know.

• 1:42:55Trevor Noah?

  And you know, I love you too.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:57Trevor Noah?

  But don't put that juju on me.

• 1:42:58Speaker 02

  No, a hundred percent. Look, look. We're gonna live forever. That's literally why I say it all the time. I said every time I'll be, people will be like, are you, are you hurt? Live forever. When I fall, people are like, ooh, that looked bad. I'm gonna live forever.

• 1:43:12Trevor Noah?

  It explains a lot of your like, I don't know, man. You, you've always had um a beautiful appreciate, like we used to come back from shows and you would look at me and you'd be like, hey, man, thank you for that. And I was like, oh, okay. And that's why I'm shocked that you don't drink. Cause I genuinely thought some of those times. I don't mean this in a shitty way. I swear on my life.

• 1:43:37Speaker 02

  No, I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you.

• 1:43:38Trevor Noah?

  You had the sincerity of a slightly inebriated person.

• 1:43:42Speaker 02

  And I also stopped talking. And I realized I did the same thing to Colin Kaepernick. When I met Colin Kaepernick, I was like, hey, man, you and me.

• 1:43:50Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and that's what you do. So Josh will, Josh will look at you, say something, not finish a sentence, but his in, his intonation will make it seem like something was coming. So he'll look at me and be like, hey, man, I just wanted to say thank you.

• 1:44:10Trevor Noah?

  Then I'll be like, oh, uh, for, for what? You know.

• 1:44:17Trevor Noah?

  Do you know?

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  No, I do know.

• 1:44:19Trevor Noah?

  No, and, and then like, it's, I mean, I've known you for years now, but back then I was just like, oh, man. I was like, my man's, you know, he's had a few. It's been a night, it's been a journey and I appreciate him still and so, so, I mean, it must be, I can only imagine what it must be like for your mom though, seeing this. Cause there's no mom who doesn't enjoy seeing their child fly.

• 1:44:46Speaker 02

  Especially when you quit the grocery store. Especially when you're like, you're like, mom, I think I got this. And she's like, are you sure? Like, cause it's not, it's not my, my mom never, like, she, my mom is very supportive, believed in me, all the things. But any mom is gonna be, especially any black mom is gonna be pragmatic.

• 1:45:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. If your mom supports you going into comedy, I don't know if you've got a great mom. I'm gonna be honest. Your, your mom should support you doing comedy as like a side. But if your mom, if you go like, yeah, if you go, mom, I'm quitting my job to do comedy. And your mom's like, good for you. I don't know if your mom actually likes you. I'm gonna be honest. Most moms, all moms should just be like, do that for fun and.

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  I told my mom that I got the job at Tonight Show and she, she was even still like, um, okay, and that's enough money to. Like like she like she was still like and this is this is good. You can you can survive. You'll be taking care of yourself. And so it's like even for something that she knows. Cause I watched the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson when I was little. Like I don't I don't even remember some of this stuff and she will tell it to me that she's like you would you cried. You cried so hard. I think I was like late to school when when when they announced on like the Today Show that Johnny Carson wasn't gonna or whatever. Really? Morning show, yeah. I watched Johnny Carson. I loved Johnny Carson so much. And so I like cried and I'm like, I don't remember this at all.

• 1:46:09Speaker 02

  And she's like, yeah, you were like four or whatever or like like I was like little. And I don't even know if it was the announcement so much as me finding out. But it was like it was just Johnny Carson and Big Bird got like tear me up, right? And so so then I think that for her, seeing me do well and especially seeing what we've built like like we have a real community of people who come to the show like to laugh, take a break and like people really take care of each other and everything and people are like, um, you know, obviously like internet's internet. So there's gonna be like mean comments, whatever. But for the most part, like people are like, um, so kind. They they they're very kind towards me and they're kind towards each other.

• 1:46:52Speaker 02

  And it's like everything, I'm hopefully making everything that would make her, you know, happy when she sees it and she's seen it a few times now and now she's seen it a couple of times as my show. And so then she sees like what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so even though she'll still whatever if I if I swear I bro, when I tell you I don't even like curse like that. I don't even curse, but if I let anything slip, she's like, I heard that uh that B word. You think that that's? Banana? Do you have me like, yeah, it'll be like it any cursing is just like is is like, um, uh. She clocks it, right?

• 1:47:32Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:47:33Speaker 02

  And, but I think that now for her, seeing that I'm doing well, seeing I'm okay, and like, once again, I just, I can take care of her, I can take care of my aunt, and like, they can ask me for things and it's not a huge deal.

• 1:47:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:45Speaker 02

  Cause that's been like the dream, like, people would say, like, even when people said I was like, good at comedy, I'd be like, I'm not good at comedy till like, my mom is taking care of.

• 1:47:54Trevor Noah?

  Man, that's beautiful.

• 1:47:55Speaker 02

  Cause then it's like, now, now you've, now you've reached some sort of goal, right? Like, now you're like, cause funny is like, this is the, the thing about like, the hubris behind comedy sometimes, I think even gets comedians trapped in, I think why so many comedians leaned into politics in the way of wanting to be attached and not just wanting to comment.

• 1:48:15Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  Cause wanting to comment is like what we're supposed to do. Being attached is like, now you're entering a weird, now you're like a mouthpiece.

• 1:48:22Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  When you're like, in with them, in with them, you gotta be very careful, cause now you're talking about your friend.

• 1:48:28Trevor Noah?

  Cause you have to know them.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:29Trevor Noah?

  No, but that's, that's actually true. You're talking about your friend, and now you can't tell the truth.

• 1:48:33Speaker 02

  Now you can't tell the truth, cause you're like, no, I was there.

• 1:48:36Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:48:37Speaker 02

  And he didn't, he didn't mean it that way, that it came out, so I know it's ridiculous, but like.

• 1:48:41Trevor Noah?

  The funny thing is, they're not your friend.

• 1:48:42Speaker 02

  They're not your friend.

• 1:48:43Trevor Noah?

  That's the thing I think a lot of people don't realize in these situations. It's like, you cozy up to a politician, right? They'll cozy up to you, but they're not your friend. Unless they are, but they, most of the time, they're not.

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  The, and you know.

• 1:48:56Trevor Noah?

  But you, you're so, you're so enjoying the proximity to power.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:00Trevor Noah?

  That you're quick to go like, they're my friend. And it's like, they're your friends, like, yeah, I love them, they're cool, they're this, they're that.

• 1:49:06Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:49:06Trevor Noah?

  And then when the power does something that you don't agree with, people are like, why is your friend doing this? Now you're like, well, I mean, they're not my friend, I don't like.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  No, no, yeah, exactly.

• 1:49:14Trevor Noah?

  I don't like know them like that, I mean, but it's like, but you told us, you vouched for them and you said they were great.

• 1:49:20Speaker 02

  I'll even tell you this right now, you, if you are a politician to be your friend, you gotta find a powerless politician. That person be a genuine, that person, the person who was like, y'all, they blocked me. I can't like, like an alderman, city council, they probably your friend.

• 1:49:36Trevor Noah?

  That's like your friend, friend.

• 1:49:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But like, once you get to, um, uh, high up, once you get to prime minister, once you get to, like, president, once you get to people with like, real power and a stake and an image that they use to like catapult them to the next thing.

• 1:49:50Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49:51Speaker 02

  You gotta be very careful, because look. Look, uh, what's his name? I'm sure Rodney Dangerfield was friends with Reagan or who, like, you know what I mean?

• 1:49:59Trevor Noah?

  It might have been.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  Might have been buddies, you know? So then he does whatever, um, I don't think it was White House Correspondents' Dinner back then, but he does whatever roasting thing and then like the president at the time's eating it up. It's like, they might be friends. And then you also have to factor in like celebrity to it too of like, maybe this president just, that's what's happening with the, with the fighters now. Like now these fighters will go to a country and hang out with like the country's dictator.

• 1:50:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  And then they'll be like friends. And then the fighter gets back to the USA, he's like, hey, you know he scans people, right? It's like, what? He just wanted to take the picture and go, like, that's, that's why I went. And it's like, why would you go? Well, he paid me a hundred thousand dollars. It's like, oh.

• 1:50:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you didn't, you didn't, you didn't check. So, so when you, so when you're building this world of yours,

• 1:50:49Trevor Noah?

  what are you, what are you building towards and what are you trying to build away from?

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  I think, I think the, and I've, I've said this before and I'll, I'll keep saying it on stage. It's like, I think the, the, when, when your life is over, when everything is done, the only real measure of a man is like what you build and what you break. And so it's like, I'd like to, um, build up a lot of like goodwill things that I think that people still have in them, but they just don't exist as much just for free in the ether. And I'd like to like break some ideas that people have of each other, even though that's gonna be hard, because like you said, it's like, the, the, the algorithm doesn't aid in those things. The same way you think you can use a politician and they're using you, I think algorithms work the same way.

• 1:51:33Trevor Noah?

  Oh, no, definitely.

• 1:51:33Speaker 02

  Where you're like, no, I've gamed it, cause I'm always nice. And it's like, well, first of all, no one is always nice. And sometimes you're willing to be nasty about someone who's being nasty, or sometimes you have a very human moment.

• 1:51:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:48Speaker 02

  Now, just like, the, the problem that we have now, that we, that we refuse to accept, because as soon as the thing becomes about you, it takes you out of the game a little bit, is that You watch reality TV. And now we know enough to know these people have been coached, or these people are being produced to be the most entertained version of themselves. Sometimes the most entertained version of themselves is the worst version of themselves. And now algorithms and platforms are doing all of that to us. We are not, we are not our worst moment. We, we are also not our, like, like, marriage proposal. No one is as cute as, as sweet as, as nasty as, as whatever. Yeah. Even if you put a bunch of that stuff out, no one is one thing, right? Whatever it is, good or bad.

• 1:52:33Speaker 02

  And so, I think that now, you could look at every person, we literally call them channels. You have a YouTube channel, you have a Instagram page, you have, you have a book about you being written, you have a TV show about you being produced. And those things work the same way. Even if you're like, well, no, I control it because it's mine. You don't control who it goes out to and how it goes out. Yeah. And then, uh, one thing that I've noticed is like, the favorite things that people say they're the favorite that I've done are never the thing that, not only never the thing I think it would be, never the thing that is the most popular. Hmm. But one of, one of the favorite, favorite, favorite, like, videos I've had that people have ever put out,

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  eh, I mean, that I've ever put out that people come to me about, is this one that I did, that I just did, like, on a whim, just to put it out for fun. Yeah. It wasn't even a Tuesday video, it was like, I think it was extra. It was like a Thursday video. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, there was a, the, it's called The Priest and the Pickle. And it's just a time in my life where I had a conversation with a priest, and a guy who was like a, like a, a pickle slash pickle juice thief. And it's like, that thing is, for a lot of people, some people say you talk about Trump, you talk about black culture, you talk about, talk about, talk about, but if we talk about favorite, for whatever reason, that thing peers through. I think anything that I put out that people connect to is hopefully,

• 1:53:57Speaker 02

  and I think by virtue of what people tell me, is the thing where I'm being hopefully like, the most human. And so, I'm not interested in being right, I'm not interested in being like,

• 1:54:10Speaker 02

  Um, into bringing the country into like whatever political form. I just like wanna remind everybody that like, at least in this aspect, and to real world consequence, you are being produced. So whatever you watch, whatever you do, take it with a grain of salt. Could this be a bot? Also, am I being served something because of how I'm feeling? Yeah. The same way that like, if you, if you're, if you're with your girl and your girl knows what you, that you're upset, and she also knows what you're upset about, she's gonna bring you a different thing. So sometimes it's like, you just had a bad day? Mm-hmm. I'll, I'll make you a little something. Or if someone did something to you, hey, we need to talk. Cause I can tell you need to talk it out. Yeah. Algorithms are serving you the same way.

• 1:54:52Speaker 02

  We do not give, we give AI and AI that doesn't even exist yet, all the credit of intelligence and manipulation that we should be giving the algorithms that already serve us. And so I just like, hopefully, even in being manipulated by it, even in, even in serving the machine to hopefully like serve the people, some good can come out of that. But like, there's so much more that I need to do. Like, I think I should just be like writing a lot of this down and, and making it, making it like, The manual? Hopefully a book. Cause then a book is like harder to, you only saw the snippet of the book. Yeah, that's true, that's true. People don't clip books. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, and even when you do, it's like, aight, that's boring.

• 1:55:36Speaker 02

  Like even when somebody tries to like clip, like uh, Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't hit the same. It doesn't hit the same. It never hits the same. Even when it's like a slam dunk. It does not hit the same. It's like, I, You gotta read it in your head. Yeah. It's not the same. Yeah, and then now I said it. See? That's the most annoying thing. I don't know if you've seen that, but like, that is a real phenomenon that's happening. Somebody finally reads anything and they go, it's like when someone repeats your idea back to you. Cause they weren't listening, but they were listening enough to, for it to go in. And then they say it. And then they say it. That's what people do. You should do that with reading, but people do it with reading like they're the expert. Actually, now that I think about it, my whole eighth grade science book was really my idea. I don't even know why you teaching the class.

• 1:56:21Speaker 02

  Like that, like that's the huber, like that's the crazy attitude that people have now. And it's why people are like, yeah, don't trust experts sometimes. Cause it's like, well, I also am well read about this. And it's like, you're not well labbed about it. You haven't clocked the hours.

• 1:56:35Speaker 03

  I think only when you speak to comics, do you realize that one, we're privileged in more ways than we can ever imagine. And I think right now we're living in a world where we've over ordered from the menu. And now we don't know what to eat first. Cause I think, I think of social media, I'm like, you know, you can erase all the apps and just leave the one that you like to communicate with people.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:55Speaker 03

  And also it's social media, not interactive media.

• 1:56:58Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:56:59Speaker 03

  If you're not using it to socialize the people that you wanna socialize with, you're the one opening up the door for people that you don't want in your life.

• 1:57:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, now it socializes you.

• 1:57:06Speaker 03

  Yes, but I also think the more time you have in your hands, the more you earn, the more time we have, and this, this debate has been going around since the beginning of time. Well, it was big with fast food. Remember when people would say, yeah, you eating junk food, you eating unhealthy. And then people were like, maybe I like it. And maybe that's all I can afford.

• 1:57:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  And it's also the same with what people call trash television.

• 1:57:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're not wrong. It's the same trend.

• 1:57:31Speaker 03

  People just wanna, yeah, they just wanna watch that. They just, when, if you feel like you know that Kim Kardashian doesn't look like that all the time, that's good for you. But they just wanna watch, they wanna watch shows about marriages not working out because theirs is probably not working out as well. So they don't wanna feel alone. But I also feel like the people, I feel the same about sport, organized sports, the same way some people feel about social media and the comments and the bots and reality television. Because if all sports was real, why is it that when match fixing happens, it's a scandal?

• 1:58:04Speaker 02

  What sport? Like what match fixing for what sport?

• 1:58:06Speaker 03

  We had a case in South Africa where it was a huge one, South African cricket team.

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  All sports real?

• 1:58:12Trevor Noah?

  Say that statement again.

• 1:58:13Speaker 03

  So here, on, in reality television, you and I can always say it's overproduced, there's some acting going on over there. So but for someone else, it's, it's reality. Kim Kardashian looks like that all the time.

• 1:58:24Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:58:25Speaker 03

  People who love sports, organized sports, think those people show up at that time, they get paid this much at eight o'clock, they're gonna play for ninety minutes, right? And it's real, the tackle was real, the goal was, the dive was real, until match fixing happens. Then someone realizes that that match that they spoke about with their friends with such conviction, two years ago, all of that.

• 1:58:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, someone was paid to take a dive.

• 1:58:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:49Speaker 03

  Or to pretend that they were hurt.

• 1:58:50Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:58:51Speaker 03

  So if in that reality we go, real organized sports is real.

• 1:58:55Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:56Speaker 03

  The same way someone feels about reality television.

• 1:58:59Trevor Noah?

  It is their reality.

• 1:58:59Speaker 03

  It is their reality.

• 1:59:01Speaker 02

  I think the differ, the, I'll just pitch you this, I do think the difference though is that even in a fixed match, nobody like flies. Like, like this, all the, all the, all the stuff that would happen in a match still happen. There are people, there are people who literally get, there are people who literally get pissed off and produced.

• 1:59:20Trevor Noah?

  Nobody flies.

• 1:59:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz like, if you were like, oh, sports isn't real the way reality TV is real.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  We compared the Kardashians and a soccer match.

• 1:59:27Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. So, so with the Kardashians, right? There's a, there's a chance that Kim's not even that mad at Khloe, but she's now been produced to almost come to blows with her sister. Which is not like real, because it's not based off a real conflict and it's not something that would have happened if we weren't looking.

• 1:59:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:59:44Speaker 02

  Everything that happens, even in a fixed match, even if you just paid the ref, they still shot the ball, they still kicked the ball, they still did the stuff. So it's like, yes, it's, to me, it's just as real, because whether someone takes a dive or not, is like, it almost doesn't factor into the equation. Because you also don't know who's like, if the keeper's girlfriend broke up with him, and now he's like distracted, so he's not playing at his best. It's like, it's still, all the stuff that was gonna happen still happen in a way that in reality TV, you can tell. Sometimes they pick the sweetest people, and then they get them to yell things that they would, like, they mess with your mind to the point.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  And I think that with sports is at least like, nah, he was always gonna try to kick it in, he just tried less cuz like, somebody paid him.

• 2:00:30Trevor Noah?

  What I'm, what I'm hearing you both say, funny enough, I know we're gonna have to wrap up soon anyway, but like, I don't think you're saying something too different. And I think.

• 2:00:40Trevor Noah?

  You know what it is, it's. Choreographer. No, but more than that, it's it's it's just, it goes back to the question I asked you about like your first experience as a young child doing what you sort of now do as a stand up comedian.

• 2:00:56Trevor Noah?

  And it's the challenge that we all face in the world.

• 2:01:00Trevor Noah?

  You have to watch the people around you watch the news. And you have to deal with the paradox of what they're experiencing versus the reality that's actually outside. Right? You have to find a way to bridge that divide. And then on the other side, in a similar world, it's like, go to the dentist, go to the dentist. But also ask yourself why they gave you a lollipop.

• 2:01:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's that you did it. You brought it all home. This very that that I feel like is what we should all do.

• 2:01:35Trevor Noah?

  Josh Johnson. This is dope, man.

• 2:01:37Speaker 02

  This is great, man. I miss you.

• 2:01:40Trevor Noah?

  I miss you too. I I don't miss you as much as you miss me because I see you all the time on the internet, which is great for me.

• 2:01:45Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:01:45Trevor Noah?

  But it's bad because then I don't get to hang out with you like this.

• 2:01:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, we can hang out anytime I'm in town.

• 2:01:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's never.

• 2:01:52Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 2:01:53Trevor Noah?

  That's a traveling comedian's word saying like, see ya sucker.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 2:01:56Trevor Noah?

  We can hang out anytime I'm around.

• 2:02:00Speaker 02

  I'm here four days a week.

• 2:02:01Trevor Noah?

  I I still need to go to a UFC match with you. That's all I want. I still say this is the this is the channel that the world deserves. Josh Johnson, commentating on UFC. This man single handedly got me into UFC. And I've I have never enjoyed a match as much as I have when when he. You should have you ever tried doing one of those like second screen type things?

• 2:02:22Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, I haven't.

• 2:02:23Trevor Noah?

  I mean, maybe don't because you love UFC. I don't want to spoil the thing that you love, but.

• 2:02:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:27Trevor Noah?

  Let me tell you something, man.

• 2:02:30Speaker 02

  Especially in twenty twenty, man.

• 2:02:32Trevor Noah?

  Let me tell you something. This guy, UFC. You don't even understand. I would have never. Josh would make me think, I know. UFC. By the time the fight starts, I would be like, Khabib. Oh, let me tell you about Khabib. You don't even understand, man. Oh, so here's the thing you gotta understand about Daghestani wrestling, right? So you see the Daghestani technique, and I'll be like, where did this come from? And then Josh is just there in the corner like, yeah. No, I'm serious. You gotta do it. You ready to do it?

• 2:03:01Speaker 02

  Dude, I'm telling you, especially in 2020, that was a good time to get in because, because there were no crowds. You got to see what like a fight was like because you could hear them.

• 2:03:12Trevor Noah?

  No, you could hear the punch.

• 2:03:13Speaker 02

  So not only could you hear them, you could hear when they were surprised about what was happening. I'll never forget when Kevin Holland fought, and I don't remember who grabbed him, somebody grabbed him and he went like, he's not on mic, the cameras are over the cage. So the cameras pick him up going, oh, you strong. Like, but you're like, this is a professional elite fighter.

• 2:03:34Trevor Noah?

  Do you remember the other one? Wait, there's another one that we, you showed me, oh, man, it was, it was similar to this. Someone turns to their corner in the fight during, it was the same time, there's like no crowd. And he like turns and he's like, I, I don't know what to do.

• 2:03:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like in the middle of a fight, he's like, he's like, hey, hey, like, y'all, y'all said. Like, it was, it was so good. And then the other one that we, we were laughing, we were like crying about is this, cause heavyweight fights are also like, these are the biggest, most dangerous men in the world.

• 2:04:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:04Speaker 02

  But they're also scared of each other.

• 2:04:07Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 2:04:07Speaker 02

  So it's like now.

• 2:04:08Trevor Noah?

  See a big man.

• 2:04:09Speaker 02

  Now they're like, that's a big guy. And remember when we were in the car and we, we had missed the actual fight? Cause we were like traveling for it and it was in, I think Abu Dhabi, so it was a different time and everything. And anyway, the heavyweight dude kicked, uh, like did like whatever, uh, kick, like oblique kick. And the other guy went, ah, ah, and then he started walking away.

• 2:04:32Trevor Noah?

  He just walked away.

• 2:04:33Speaker 02

  Just walked away.

• 2:04:34Trevor Noah?

  Like he was like, I'm going home.

• 2:04:35Speaker 02

  Even the ref is like, like the ref starts running to try to stop it. Cause you're like, you know, you gotta intelligently defend yourself and everything. But even the ref was like. What is he doing? And then the dude like hit him once and then he, you know, like, but he was still holding his side. And you would never hear the like, ah, like, and now because of COVID, they've actually brought back a lot more like ringside, coach, corner. Like they had some of it before, but now they're like, they're bringing, they're bringing it more in.

• 2:05:04Trevor Noah?

  I'm telling you, Josh, you gotta do it, man.

• 2:05:05Speaker 02

  But yeah.

• 2:05:06Trevor Noah?

  Josh Johnson, UFC commentator and part-time nunchuck user. Ow, ow, ow. He walks, walks the streets at night. His Afro casting a menacing silhouette. Hello? Who is that? Hello? Hello? Ow. Are you the guy from the grocery store? Josh Johnson is nunchuck. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer.

• 2:05:51Trevor Noah?

  Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.

• 2:06:14Speaker 05

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