Expert Psychiatrist's Guide To Transcend Trauma w/ Dr. Frank Anderson

I KNOW A LOT OF YOU ARE HURTING RIGHT NOW. I SEE it in your messages. I HEAR it when I talk to people. And SOCIAL MEDIA and the NEWS are filled with stories every day of people struggling to stay afloat. So often, we find ways to compromise as a means of living with our psychological pain and deep-seeded trauma. Many of us have been doing it for years. But collectively, I don’t think we’re doing enough HEALING. Especially lately, as the pandemic has turned our entire world upside down. We’ve done our best to cope amid loved ones getting sick or dying, losing our jobs and identity, battling isolation, and an all-consuming fear of the future. This week’s guest, DR. FRANK ANDERSON is a psychiatrist who has extensively studied pain and trauma. He has made it his lifelong quest to help others heal by integrating his knowledge of neuroscience and trauma treatment with Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy. His new book, TRANSCENDING TRAUMA, explores a unique, compassionate, and evidence-based approach to resolving dissociative trauma. ARE YOU READY TO HEAL? Do you want to regain the ability to CONNECT WITH and LOVE OTHERS on a deeper level? Are you ready to help others UNDERSTAND why they’re traumatized and what you can do to help them? Aside from the obvious BENEFITS of why it’s important to heal, until you learn to do so and take active steps to heal from trauma, there’s no way you can be the BEST POSSIBLE spouse, parent, friend, co-worker, or achieve the HIGHEST DEGREE OF SUCCESS in your career or personal life. TIME SPENT HEALING IS TIME WELL SPENT. And as Dr. Anderson reveals to us, it’s a WORTHY INVESTMENT in ourselves. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

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• 0:45Ed Mylett?

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• 1:01Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company, for me, of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  On October 2nd.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  This is the Ed Mileage Show.

• 1:40Ed Mylett?

  All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. I'm excited about today, based on its timing, too. We're going to talk about mental health today. Mental well-being, mental fitness, happiness, bliss, overcoming trauma, and all that kind of good stuff. And especially, you know, if you're listening to this around the holidays, some of you will listen to it six months from now, but the timing's right, too. And I'm so excited to have Dr. Frank Anderson with me today. Frank is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist and psychotherapist. So we're talking about an IQ gap that is pretty vast between the two of us today, as you listen. But he's the author of a book called Transcending Trauma, which I was glued to. And I'm so excited to share his wisdom with you, his work and his insights, as we help you with your mental well-being as well. So, Dr. Anderson, thank you for being here, brother.

• 2:24Speaker 03

  Well, thank you so much for having me, Ed. I really appreciate it. And please, call me Frank.

• 2:28Ed Mylett?

  All right, Frank, you got it. You called me ahead too. So let's, I was reading a survey the other day that said about 24% of people report some form of mental illness or strife in their life. Why do you think such a high percentage of people during such an interesting time in our culture are so unhappy? What do you think it is?

• 2:48Speaker 03

  There's so many factors going on really from my perspective. I mean, clearly, one of them is a pandemic. I mean, it has really got people in a place that they never thought they would be, and particularly the ongoing nature of it. You know, I've been studying the neurobiology of trauma, PTSD and dissociation for a really long time. But this is an ongoing thing, and it's going on and on and on. And, you know, we've been through so many different waves of this so far, and people get really burned out. It's called adrenal fatigue. Your systems can't maintain it anymore. Our cortisol levels cannot sustain up, down. Oh, a vaccine. Oh, there's not another variant. Keep going. Don't go. Like, it's just too much for our

• 3:32Speaker 03

  systems. So it's, it's wearing on everyone. And so there's that piece, right? And then there's the general world pre pandemic. I mean, there's a lot of difficulties in the world, and people are struggling. And, you know, 20% of the population is depressed at any one time outside of a pandemic.

• 3:51Ed Mylett?

  This term PTSD, so, you know, I do a lot of reading about this stuff. And I had an interesting upbringing. When I say interesting, there was some trauma there for sure. And I think a lot of people listening to this or watching it wonder, when I think of PTSD, as a layman, first thing I think of is soldiers, combat, right? That's the first thing I think most people think of. And then I think, you know, maybe some super dramatic issue that happens in one's childhood. But how would you define PTSD? How broad? Is there a spectrum of it? And how would you describe it?

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Totally. Yeah, that's a great question, Ed. And it is a spectrum. I think trauma is the spectrum disorder. One of the things I say in my book is everyone has some kind of overwhelming life experience. Nobody gets away free of that. Okay, so, and people don't like this word trauma so much in the general public. They don't like the word PTSD. Oh, that's not me. Right? So I do really define trauma on a spectrum. It's overwhelming life experience. And often, it has to do with

• 4:51Speaker 03

  The perception of the person experiencing it, right? You can be bullied on the playground at school and be like, whatever, no big deal. And somebody else, you know, your friend sitting next to you is bullied on the playground and has a horribly difficult experience with it, right? So it depends on the nature and the event of what happens. And it also depends on how the individual perceives it, you know? We're talking about single incident car accident, death of a loved one, being shamed. Like, who in the world hasn't been shamed at one point in their life, right? To ongoing, this piece, I don't know if you're aware of this. Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey wrote this book recently.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  And it has a lot to do with ongoing relational trauma. Okay, so there's a piece of relational trauma. We call that complex PTSD, right? And that's where most family dysfunction comes in, right? When you're relationally, you know, whether it's drinking, yelling, screaming, neglect, there's a lot of stuff that happens in families that is considered dysfunctional and traumatic. And it has an effect on people, you know, which is different than that whole other spectrum where people are kidnapped and beaten and raped. That's one extreme. So I really do see trauma on a spectrum and nobody's free of it.

• 6:15Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, okay, that's great. I'm so glad you said it that way because I think a lot of people maybe discount things that have happened. These emotions are installed in our neurochemistry when we're young, when certain things happen or when we're older. And I have this weird analogy, but I want to, I want, in a minute, guys, we're going to talk about how do you overcome these things, right? Weird thing I want to share with you, it's just thinking about in preparing for this. As I was preparing to be with you, I have two little Pomeranians. And one of them's this joyous Pomeranian, little Lily's her name, and she's been with us all our lives. She's had a pretty blissful, you know, lifetime. My other one, Daisy, we took from someone and the kind of the, our groomer asked us to take her and she had been left in cars and had neglect and all these other things. And there's these associations she makes with different things where she'll just, like

• 6:59Ed Mylett?

  yesterday, we won't take her for a walk, any walking outside the house, she just begins to shake and tremble. And so there's this connection she's made with certain circumstances, places and things like anchors or triggers almost.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  You got it.

• 7:11Ed Mylett?

  That I think that humans have these anchors and triggers. Many times we're unaware of them. So can you take us through what happens to us when trauma happens, some type of trauma? And what is an anchor and/or a trigger, or what I'm at least using my own terminology for that?

• 7:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's exactly right. No, you're doing a great job. Honestly, you've done your homework. Let me say that, Ed, because it's true. So anytime anyone has an overwhelming experience, it's stored in their body. Okay. And it can be stored in any number of ways. You can store it emotionally, you can store it physically in your body, and you can store it in thoughts and beliefs. So anytime we go through something overwhelming, it's stored inside. And then what ends up happening, Ed, is that we have this series of ways to try to protect ourselves. It's the normal response. So in the work that I do, which is called Internal Family Systems, you develop protective parts of yourself that try to protect you from your overwhelming

• 8:11Speaker 03

  experiences. Most people, and we'll call them defenses, you know, but they're protections, okay, that you protect yourself from your pain. And so what ends up happening, if you have an overwhelming experience in childhood, college, whatever, it's still stored. You think it's gone, but it's not. So anytime it gets triggered, if you get yelled at as an adult by your boss, it triggers those wounds that are still in there. And then your protectors jump in. You yell, you scream, you drink, you do whatever. So our protectors show up once our wounds get triggered. Okay. And this is what happens for people, you know. People come into therapy, Ed, they don't say, hey, I want to work on the fact

• 8:56Speaker 03

  that I was unloved by my mother or father. Like, that's not what people come into therapy. They're like, I'm having trouble with my kids, I'm getting in trouble at work, I'm unhappy, I'm, this is my third relationship, like- Those are the protective parts that are not doing so well in somebody's life.

• 9:14Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 9:14Speaker 03

  But they're really rooted in their trauma, right?

• 9:17Ed Mylett?

  Is it always people or circumstances, or can it actually be places? I've had, I've had this belief system that sometimes I think someone could actually walk into a room that resembles a room where trauma happened, or a space, or a moment. They find themselves four hours later at work, sad and down and not knowing why. And there was a trigger that happened when they walked in. Even though, I know I'm going pretty deep here, but I want everyone in the audience to kind of get everything they can. Can spaces also be triggers?

• 9:45Speaker 03

  A hundred percent. People can be triggers. You look at somebody, you're like, oh, my God, that reminds me of, even though it's not the same person. Spaces can be triggered. Getting on airplanes can be triggered. Being in the backseat of a car, like, there's so many things. Because whatever environment that you were in that was overwhelming, people encode that. You know, so I've heard somebody say, oh, my God, when I was being abused, I was staring at the doorknob.

• 10:14Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  Because that's what I focused on. And so doorknobs are scary for them. Do you know what I mean? So it can be anything. And most people aren't aware of the triggers. They think it just comes out of the blue, but it doesn't come out of the blue. There's always trailing it back to the trigger of what activated the thing that happened to you in your past.

• 10:35Ed Mylett?

  What if you don't know? Is that why therapy is so important? Because I think a lot of people avoid therapy, which can be all the way to the sophisticated work you do, where there's this integrated, you know, current neuroscience stuff you're doing and the internal family systems to just having somebody to talk to.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:52Ed Mylett?

  Do you, why do you think therapy has such a stigma to it? And is that the pathway to correcting this? Or can someone just become more aware, if it's minor things, and actually begin to live better just by their awareness?

• 11:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a great question, I have to tell you. Because, you know, it depends on where you live within the country, right? If you're living in the Boston area, New England, or you're living in California, those people are therapy heavy. Like, everybody has a therapist, right? So it depends, it depends on the region that you live in around the stigma. You know, in a lot of places in the Midwest, a lot of places in the South, like. And cultural differences too, Ed, honestly, like certain cultures are into therapy. Yes, let's get help. That makes sense. Other cultures, absolutely not, no way. So it depends on where you live. It depends on the region. But there is generally a stigma around mental health because people like, I don't need help. I'm strong. I'm not weak. Like, people call vulnerability, right?

• 11:51Speaker 03

  Go to therapy, I'm vulnerable. Forget that crap. I don't want to be weak and vulnerable, right? It's why I love Brene Brown so much. She calls vulnerability a superpower, not a weakness, right? And I agree with that. So, one of the things I do, honestly, when I work with any adolescent, I want to give them the experience of asking for help can be a good thing. Like, if a kid learns that, it's a game changer for them, you know? So people have this, I'm not weak, I don't need this. And in fact, they end up falling apart, getting it, their life is a mess, and then they go reluctantly. But honestly, I'm gonna say, instead of nine times out of 10, it's honestly 10 times out of 10,

• 12:32Speaker 03

  it's rooted in something from your past that you have buried to get away from. People get away from pain. You know, it's like the cavemen. Touch the fire, the fire hurts. Oh, don't touch the fire anymore. It's kind of like that. We're organized to stay away from pain.

• 12:51Ed Mylett?

  Don't you think sometimes you can evaluate yourself? I mean this, I don't mean that therapy is necessary because I'm a huge believer. I also think there's an economic aspect sometimes to therapy.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:00Ed Mylett?

  But I, I'm aware of patterns of my own that I know come out of some of the, what I would call trauma in my childhood. It could just be dysfunction. It could be your parents didn't ever hug you, right? Or no one said, I love you, or they were a divorce. That's trauma. That fits under that spectrum.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 13:15Ed Mylett?

  But for me, one of the things that I'm, I'm, I'm super sensitive to is, People being honest with me to an extreme or what are you really doing when you're away from me to an extreme? And so it's affected relationships that I've been in in my life. And I've evaluated, that's because my dad was doing things I didn't know he was doing and couldn't trust that he was doing. So I think sometimes just being aware of your current patterns of behavior can help you draw the line backwards to potentially what that trauma was. Now, in terms of solution, and you can comment on that if you'd like, but I just want to share that with the audience from me. And there's other things like I'm, anyone around me gets too drunk, too excess. Some people think that's cool and fun. For me, it's like,

• 13:58Ed Mylett?

  oh, that's, I want to be away from them so badly because I experienced that stuff.

• 14:02Speaker 03

  You got it.

• 14:04Ed Mylett?

  So I'm curious, though, you have the eight Cs of what you call self-energy in the book, which is awesome. And I don't want to give away everything because I want people to get the book. And by the way, this is 2%. So get the book, everybody. But can you take us through what self-energy is and how that works? And maybe what the eight Cs are, if you can pull them off the top of your head?

• 14:23Speaker 03

  Totally. I'll see how many I'll come up with at the top of my head. But you know what? It's interesting. So a couple of things, I want to tell you, one of my favorite quotes from my book is, "Trauma blocks love. Love heals trauma." Okay? And it's a cyclical piece. Trauma blocks love and connection. It blocks who we are. And in fact, love and connection is what heals trauma.

• 14:49Ed Mylett?

  Wow. Very good. Very.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Okay. Okay. And I believe this is my mission. It really is my mission because you don't have to go to therapy in some ways. This is why I'm bringing this to the public is you're talking about self-awareness, self-connection, this idea, this mindset to do better. So it's super important. Okay. And I want to, I want to, I want this message to get to as many people as possible. That's why I'm moving outside the therapy room into the general public, right? And I appreciate shows like this to help me get that message out, right?

• 15:24Ed Mylett?

  We're getting it out, brother, for sure.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  I love it. I love it. Thank you for that. And so everyone has this thing that we call self-energy. It's inherent wisdom and healing capacity. And I believe we're born with it. It's not something that needs to be cultivated. And believe me, a lot of people with severe trauma, I don't have it. I'm broken. I'm empty. And you know what I say to them? We can agree to disagree. You have it in you. You have that wisdom and healing capacity. This is why I say sometimes, so maybe everybody doesn't have to go to therapy. You have what you need inside of you, and let me help you access it. Okay?

• 16:05Ed Mylett?

  This is great.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  It's accessing that wisdom within, right? And I call it a state of being. And, you know, because it's a model and it has mnemonics, we say the eight Cs, okay? But I'll, I'll give you, I'll say some of the Cs, right? Compassion, calm, curious, connected, courageous. There probably is another one, I think, or another couple.

• 16:32Ed Mylett?

  Creativity.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Creativity. There you go, creativity. And I don't want people to think it's a C word per se. It's just, that's the model mnemonics. Love, openness is part of self-energy. It's a state of being. You could say something like this to somebody, "Yeah, I'm compassionate." Or you could say, "Ah, yeah, I really care." Right? Do you feel the difference?

• 17:02Ed Mylett?

  Absolutely, yes.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  That's what I'm talking about. It's not a word. It's a state of being. It's, I'm open, I'm receptive. And it's not only toward other people. It's toward the parts of us that have been through the trauma. Okay, so what we do is we turn self-energy inward. Can I be compassionate and loving towards the part of me that was beat up as a kid? Toward the part of me that was shamed and bullied on the playground? Like, because what we tend to do, remember I said those protectors push it away? To protect us from the pain?

• 17:44Speaker 03

  The method here is bring, accessing self-energy and bringing it in toward loving yourself, loving the pain that you went through, right? That's the healing quality here, is that I call it internal attachment work. We're healing the internal wounds. And we have the capacity within us to do that. I just want to help people get there.

• 18:16Ed Mylett?

  That is so beautiful. I hope, I really hope everybody hears that because there's this debate. By the way, the compassion, curiosity, calm, clarity, connectedness, confidence, courage, and creativity. These are all things that you have access to within you. And there's this great debate sometimes on social media, especially in the entrepreneur space. A lot of entrepreneurs, not all, but many follow my work and they make fun of this. Oh, self-love, but you don't want to change anything about yourself. And that's not what we're discussing here. What we're saying is that you have access within you, or you're saying, rather, and I'm agreeing with, that you have access and the ability to love yourself, even though there are things about you. I think sometimes there's this stacking that happens where there's some trauma that happens. So we

• 19:00Ed Mylett?

  create these coping mechanisms, whether it is drinking, or cheating, or lying, or disassociation, or whatever those things might be. Then we act out and behave in ways that we're not proud of, right? And then it stacks. Then we find ourselves at 20, 30, 40, 50 years old with this stack of stuff we've done, or behaviors we've taken place in that we're not proud of. And now it's like a double stack. The stuff happened to me. I don't really know why I'm doing this, but I've lied, I've cheated, I've stole, whatever I've done. And there's this stack. So I was a little bit curious about the idea of forgiveness of oneself as well. And I know it's not necessarily part of the book per se, but there's little pieces that kind of allude to it. What about that?

• 19:45Ed Mylett?

  Like, is that part of what you would call compassion for oneself is forgiveness? Does it fall under there? Or what would you say about that?

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Totally. So forgiveness is a big piece of it, honestly. And there is the forgiveness of yourself, the parts of you that work so hard to try to protect you, that have done untoward things. Okay, those protective parts, the parts that drink, that yell, that scream. The reason we yell at our kids is because their behavior triggers our wounds. So we try to stop them from doing that, so our wounds don't get activated, right? So those protective parts, I'm always looking at the intention of them, not the effect of them. The drinking, the cheating, the lying.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  The intention is to protect my pain.

• 20:37Ed Mylett?

  That's big.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  The effect is it causes what I call a double trauma in our life. Cause like you just said, Ed, it's not only that I'm dealing, pushing away my childhood diswounding. Now I have to deal with the fact that all the behaviors that were rooted to protect me have caused more trouble in my life.

• 20:56Ed Mylett?

  Yes, yes.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Okay, so we're looking at the positive intention of every part. Suicide, cutting, you know, suicide is one of the most effective protections. If it gets bad enough, I'm out of here.

• 21:13Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  And we say to the suicidal part, thank you for having a solution to this problem when nobody else was there to help you.

• 21:21Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  Okay, embrace it. Heroin epidemic, same thing. People are doing all opioids, heroin to protect from their pain because they don't have another option yet.

• 21:34Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you know, I was just thinking about, by the way, I'm loving this. And it's, it's interesting for me, I'm 50 years old. It's just now maybe at this stage in my life that I reflect more on stuff that did happen when I was a kid and.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:46Ed Mylett?

  Because there's, there's like double edged swords on these coping mechanisms. I don't know if you agree with this or not.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  That's exactly what I'm saying, yeah.

• 21:54Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, like, like, for example, for whatever reason, I kind of got my dad's attention if I, at least I thought I did. Probably isn't even fair to say, but I get my dad's attention when I hit a home run or when I'd get an A or when I'd perform. So to some extent, that coping mechanism has helped, helped me become a wealthy man, helped me become an influential man, helped me become a very hard worker.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:16Ed Mylett?

  But there's the other side of this. So let's address this, sometimes these coping mechanisms also are difficult to break because for example, in business, my edginess or anger, it's why I'm so successful. I don't want to lose that part of me, even though I know it's not very healthy because it helps me do this other thing that I do very well.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:35Ed Mylett?

  Right, so how do you, how do you navigate that where you go, I want to keep the good things about this coping mechanism I've got, but I want to drop the part of it that's detrimental to me and the people around me.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's exactly what we do is because we embrace, I call them the gifts and the burdens of every part.

• 22:51Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Right, we don't get rid of parts of us. Okay, we get rid of the job it was forced to do.

• 23:01Ed Mylett?

  Oh, that's so good.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  Right? We don't get rid of like the drinking part, like let's take a drinking part, for example. I say, what if you didn't have to drink all the time? Are you interested in that? What if you didn't have to? What if it could be a choice? Right? So we try, we help release the stuff we had to do to protect the wound. And then we keep the stuff we want to do. Okay, and the only way these parts of us stop doing what they need to do is by healing the wound.

• 23:34Ed Mylett?

  Got you.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  If I heal the wound, I don't need to do this stuff anymore. I could choose to. We don't get rid of any of our parts. We get rid of the job they were forced to do.

• 23:48Ed Mylett?

  So good.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  To protect the pain.

• 23:51Ed Mylett?

  So good.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  You see what I mean? Like, that's what it is, and they have good things. I had this like, smart was who I was. Like, I thought, that is me. Like, that's me. And I had an identity crisis when I was like, wait a minute. Smart is a part of me, not all of me. I was like, holy crap, who am I then? Right?

• 24:11Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  But look, I can still hold on to my intelligence, but it doesn't have to dominate every aspect of my life now. I could be playful, I could be fun, you know, I can have a blast with my kids. You know what I mean? Before, it was dominating me because it was working overtime to protect me. I don't get rid of it, but it's an aspect of my personality that's been valuable.

• 24:37Ed Mylett?

  So I just really feel strongly, everyone should go back and listen to this last part that we covered, because there's this spectrum, right? We've talked about of the different types of trauma. But what should be occurring to all of us, like... Life should have an element of self-reflection at every age. And I think oftentimes, we're just so busy in achieving and doing and caring for other people that we never take. Guys, this could just be as simple as you starting to take some time and being more aware of yourself, some time in meditation, some time for a walk. That's not just to work out, but it's just to be with yourself, to evaluate your patterns and emotions and what you're feeling regularly. Just to do a little work on you. At the end of that next year, 2022, you'd be a better person. You will have grown.

• 25:20Ed Mylett?

  And so I just want everyone, if you want some complex, where you're going to go to therapy, you're going to do psychotherapy, you're going to have a friend you talk to, you're going to pray more, you're going to just observe your patterns, you're going to, whatever it might be. Self-reflection and self-awareness is a pathway to more bliss in your life. And it's getting, it's getting, it's getting books like your book, it's listening to shows like my show, it's just starting to work on oneself. How do you know, Frank, if you have any PTSD? Are there signs that I have had some kind of trauma I might be unaware of? And again, remember, guys, PTSD could be you weren't hugged enough. All the way to real abuse in your life, right? There's the spectrum, but how does one know? Are there any underlying signs that I have some? Or does everybody?

• 26:05Speaker 03

  It's a great question, and I will deal with that in a minute. I want to just add on to what you said because it was really important. I was thinking to myself, I'm like, this is what I talk about in the book, self-awareness, self-connection. And you just came up with it on your own, but that is what this is about, right? Self-awareness, self-connection in its simplest forms. And I also like to say, Ed, like, take advantage of each moment. What are you going to do with this moment? Are you going to learn from it? Are you going to repeat it? Are you going to ignore it? Like, when you talk about, okay, let's look at the end of 2022, what did I do with my moments? Like, I think we're all here to learn. We're all here to grow.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Or we just repeat it, right? So you can just take stock in your moment, like it's a, it's the moment like, all right, bad time with the kid. Really difficult interaction at work, like take your moment and what are you going to do with that moment? I want.

• 27:02Ed Mylett?

  By the way, profound, I don't want to, I don't want to interrupt you like, because it's so beautiful, but this thing you said, I just want to highlight, which is if you don't, you'll repeat it.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 27:10Ed Mylett?

  You're just gonna have another, it's gonna be the same, a different boyfriend, but the same guy. Different girlfriend, same person, different friendship, different business, different level of results, same emotions, same patterns, if you're not aware. So I just wanna acknowledge what you said, the profoundness of it.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Let me add to that because the underlying reason of that is our wounds are looking for redemption unless they're healed. Okay, you keep going for the same guy or the same girl, maybe it's an upgraded version, but it's the redemption of our wounds. Okay, and if you don't address your wounds, this is why there's a 50% divorce rate in the world, honestly, because we keep looking for, you're gonna be the father or the mother that I never had, you're gonna love me in the way that I never was. It's the repeating the pattern, but looking for redemption instead of healing it

• 28:09Speaker 03

  and then looking for something that's healthy. So I wanna point that out for people.

• 28:14Ed Mylett?

  So huge. That's, I've never heard that. And that is a wow, wow, wow. Okay, so how do you know you had signs of it? What's some of the signs? You have some of this PTSD.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Well, so exactly, so that, you know, when you keep repeating stuff, like when you can't get out of your own way, why am I doing this again? You know, why am I here again? And honestly, PTSD is under the category of anxiety disorders, like in the, in the books and all this stuff, and the DSM, if you will, it's an anxiety disorder. So are you overwhelmed? Are you anxious? Are you reactive a lot? Do you go from high to low? Like, a lot of times, people with PTSD, honestly, get misdiagnosed as bipolar because it's mood swings, right? Do you have a lot of mood swings? Do you crash after you get triggered and have periods of depression?

• 29:08Speaker 03

  You withdraw, you disconnect, right? Because you can go from, holy crap, I'm freaking out, to who cares? What's the point? I give up.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  Those are these mood swings, which are really different parts reacting and responding. So there is anxiety, there's panic, there's depression. PTSD is kind of hard to diagnose, interestingly enough, and many people misdiagnose this because it's got so many facets to it, right? And it's got a lot of what we call comorbidities. People are anxious, they have eating issues, you know, eating disorders, substance abuse issues, like when somebody comes in with a list of stuff, it's most likely rooted in trauma. Okay, ADD, another one, huge overlap with PTSD, interestingly enough.

• 30:01Ed Mylett?

  And yeah, we can change trauma out just for pain. You know, it's interesting with achievers, the ones that I work, some of the top, you know, whether it's an athlete or an entertainer or a politician or whatever. Sometimes there, it's interesting, all the things you've listed, and then when they begin to achieve, there's this thing they start to do with themselves, and a lot of people are gonna go, oh, my gosh, I do this right now. Is it really worth it? What's it all mean? Once they start to get somewhere, they'll feed themselves because they should be blissful and joyous and proud. The only way to rob themselves from it now is, ah, it doesn't matter, that was all for nothing, it cost me all these other things. So I'm curious about the relationship part. Let's say I'm, I'm in, I, you know, I've got whatever I've got, my baggage, my patterns, my things. What if you interact, you're in a relationship, though?

• 30:45Ed Mylett?

  Let's flip it, it's not so much us, but maybe it still is, but we're in a relationship with someone who clearly has these patterns, clearly is overcoming, protecting themselves, trying to heal some form of trauma, whether that, it could be minor to extreme. Is there, what advice would you give for interacting with somebody who keeps acting out in a particular way? And is there a point where you should separate from somebody? And whether it's a friend, a loved one, a spouse, et cetera, a parent? What would your advice be there?

• 31:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that's the whole couples issue, like when you're, and you don't even have to be in an intimate relationship, but you're talking about what if you're in relationship to someone who has a trauma history?

• 31:21Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  All right, so it's not a coincidence, there's usually a dynamic there. Okay, I hate to say it, okay? I hate to bust people's bubble, the people who are, you know, pointing out the other person's issue, because usually, in that case, there'd be somebody who's activated, screaming, yelling, reactive, and there's the passive one.

• 31:45Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  The one who tolerates it, the one who enables it, the one who is drawn. People tend to be drawn to each other because there's similar wounding, even though they tend to show it differently.

• 32:01Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  Okay, so somebody could be like, typical example, and I'm gonna use these gender stereotypes. Oh, my God, she's so hysterical, she's so overwhelming with her feelings. Oh, my God, he's on the spectrum. He can't connect with anybody, you know, such a typical male, female, gender dynamic, right? And the reality is, both of them have wounds underneath that are similar, because attraction is about the similarity in wounding. Okay, so you may look totally different. It may easy, it's much easier to blame the other person. But what I say to that is do the U-turn. What about me has been drawn to this person?

• 32:48Speaker 03

  What is going on for me that keeps me in this relationship? Okay, it's much easier to point the finger at the louder screaming yelling version compared to the numb, dissociated, passive or disconnected version. And there's usually that dynamic. Okay, so it's rarely do I see a couple where both don't have trauma histories of sorts, like you say. However, they they cope with it in opposite, seemingly opposite ways.

• 33:27Ed Mylett?

  Yes, does someone be, by the way, that's brilliant. And does someone eventually become so toxic to you that you should cut them out of your life?

• 33:34Speaker 03

  Absolutely, like, you know, usually if it's that toxic and you don't have a trauma history, you break up with them. You don't end up marrying them, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, whoa, this does not resonate with me.

• 33:47Ed Mylett?

  But what if you have that thing where you're like, you're gonna fix them? You know what I'm saying? A lot of people have that. I'm gonna fix him. I'm gonna fix her.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Welcome to every therapist I've ever met, by the way. Okay, and I'm a person in that group. I was such a caretaker. You don't go into the field unless you're a massive caretaker.

• 34:04Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 34:05Ed Mylett?

  You know what you do, though, Frank? I gotta tell you what you do, and I love this of brilliant people. And that is that, you know, as you're listening to this, you can hear his brilliance, realizing he's Harvard trained. But what you do that I love is that you take incredibly complicated and complex issues and solutions and make them simple and easy to understand because you don't have this need any longer to be the smartest guy in the room. You just are. And so that's why this is so helpful to I keep telling you this is my favorite because I just really, really believe this is making a difference for people. So you do think maybe someone might need to be eliminated? Let's talk about a few solutions now. What is a corrective emotional experience? Let's give everybody the gift of what that is and have you explained that?

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, so a corrective emotional experience, it really is what I call a redo. Okay, so you're repeating your pattern, you're repeating your pattern, you're repeating your pattern. And a corrective emotional experience is when you do it differently, the moment that you do it differently. Okay, for example, now this could be in relationship with somebody else, but it's also within yourself. Okay? And what we like to do is this is so in therapy, sometimes there's this idea that the therapist is the corrective experience for you. I'm gonna be everything you needed and wanted and never gotten life.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Ed, you're gonna internalize that and you're gonna skip off into the sunset and be happy, right? People are searching for the corrective emotional experience outside of themselves all the time. Now, sometimes relationships are healing. Okay, the relationship with my partner is is a corrective emotional experience. It really, he's like wonderful for me. He's been that person in a way that's been amazing. Okay, so that is there and we can get that from other people. However, oftentimes, these people are not who we needed and wanted them to be, and then it becomes a big failure. Okay, so you've got to think about shifting and working internally.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  To have the corrective emotional experience within. This is where real healing comes that you remember that self energy thing I talked about?

• 36:25Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  Self energy can give that little boy, little girl inside what it needed and wanted and never got. It's the true redo. Okay, it's the true redo and it's through self love, self acceptance and self connection. Just like you talked about. And if I give it to myself, then I am going to have different experiences in my relationships with other people. Because I'm not going to need them to make me feel better. Hmm. Okay, so corrective emotional experiences can be useful in life and our relationships. It's like I could remember the moment I'm like, wow, this is different.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  I'm not doing what I used to do and this person isn't responding in the ways that I typically have people respond to me. Right? So you could have a corrective emotional experience. It feels different. It lands different within you. You're like, oh, this is different. The way we get there is by giving to ourselves. What we didn't get and always wanted like, can I treat myself with respect? Can I love myself? Can I value myself? Because when I give it within, I don't need it desperately from somebody else. I can have it with somebody else. It's an option versus a desperation.

• 37:53Ed Mylett?

  Hmm. I'm just letting that sit there for me. Yes.

• 37:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:57Ed Mylett?

  Because and and is there a practical way I can give that to myself? In other words, an application of that? Is it just as is it as simple as saying, you know, I'm actually going to give myself a break when I make a mistake? Is it repeating to yourself that you love yourself? Is it feeding yourself a highlight reel of all the good things you've done in your life? Like, what is something practical I can do that give myself that gift?

• 38:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not, you know, I'm not a big affirmations person. Because affirmations aren't authentic. It's like convince yourself you love yourself. Uh, didn't work for me like, right, doesn't work. So for me, it's gotta be, can I connect? It's really goes back to the self connection. What do I feel? What do I need and want? Because we're taught to disconnect from ourselves to keep the connection with our parent.

• 38:47Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Okay, you have to, kids have to connect to the parent to survive, so they disconnect from themselves. So it's as easy as, easy, not easy, it's as simple as, what do I want? What do I feel? Okay, when you can connect to what you feel, right? I can't tell you how many people said, I knew this relationship was crappy, but I married him anyways.

• 39:13Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  We know what we feel, we disconnect from it, right? So it's simple moments, it's taking the pause. What do I, do I want to go to that holiday party? You know, I really don't. Could I take the risk and not go?

• 39:30Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 03

  Because other people don't care as much as we think they care.

• 39:35Ed Mylett?

  That's true.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  Actually, and then I'm treating myself kindly, even a moment, it's like, oh, huh. And so each time you treat yourself kindly, you're giving yourself a corrective experience.

• 39:50Ed Mylett?

  Very good. I just gave myself one then, I did that this year.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  Great.

• 39:54Ed Mylett?

  I love sharing these things with my audience when someone says something brilliant, just an application for me. I've, I've always, I really took a look at my, and asked myself the question you said, and you said so many brilliant things, or I want to make sure I just repeat the one that stands out to me, which was, what is it that I really want or need right now? And for me, I've had all these different things in my life, I've had anxiety, I've had frustration, I've had depression, I've also had, there have been moments of my life of joy and bliss and ecstasy and passion and expectation. And I found for me, I've never had peace. What I really want is peace. At my childhood, there was no peace, it was loving, many, many times loving, awesome, and then sometimes not. And I've not had peace.

• 40:39Ed Mylett?

  I finally said, Ed, what do you really want that you don't have that I can access within myself anytime I want? And it was peace, and I've really done. Work this year on giving myself the gift of more peace, noticing more gratitude, putting myself in situations that bring me peace and avoiding ones that don't. I haven't done a great job of it. I've done a better job of it. I'm making progress towards more peace. It wasn't just one decision and okay, it's done. I've got peace. Now I have tons of patterns and people and situations in my life that are around me that aren't peaceful. But slowly but surely I'm creating more peace in my life. So I love that you said that.

• 41:19Ed Mylett?

  And it's a, it's a direct application for me in my life. Now, one thing I've never struggled with, but most people do that I want to ask you about. Complete right turn here. Yeah, I don't struggle with making decisions. I'm a decisive person. I've never had this fear of this is right or this is wrong. Oftentimes I think I might make both of these things work, but I find that so many people struggle with anxiety and fear over making a decision, especially one that might be bold, like a career change or ending a relationship or starting a relationship or starting a business. So what, what would you say to someone who deals with high levels of anxiety and fear about making decisions in their life?

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it's, it's, I wish it was a little bit simpler. I'd like to say a bullet or two. Okay. But the thing that I would say about fear around making decisions is you really have to look at what the underlying issue is relative to the fear. For example, some people are afraid to make decisions because they're afraid of the loss. Is it this house or that house? If I choose this house, that means I can't have that house. Right? So that's a loss issue. So the root of that is I'm afraid I may lose something. Okay. Other people fear because fear is usually what's around decision-making problems, right?

• 42:44Speaker 03

  Will, if I, if I choose this, if I say, no, I don't want to go to the party, they might not like me. I may, the relationship may be over. I may hurt somebody. I may disappoint somebody. So I'm not, I'm afraid to make this decision based on what the other person might feel about me. Okay, so you're always looking at what is underneath.

• 43:09Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  So there's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons why people have a hard time make, making decisions, honestly. You know, and it's, it's so interesting because my son, the other day, and I was saying, we, we had gone home for a family visit. And I said, you know, sometimes it's hard to tell your parents what you really, even as adults, tell your parents what you really want. Because you're afraid that they'll be disappointed in you, or you're afraid, you know, of their reaction. People are so afraid of feelings.

• 43:38Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 43:38Speaker 03

  My own or somebody else's. And I loved what my son said. He's like, well, that's not a problem for me. I tell you what I feel all the time. And I was like, yes, I did one thing right, you know?

• 43:50Ed Mylett?

  That's exactly right.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  Right? We do, we're afraid of the feelings of others, whether it's feelings of loss for ourself, feelings of how somebody's going to think about us. So it's so rooted in emotion. And fear is just a top layer of that, honestly.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  Really, what it ends up being is this, is that most people's fear is based in their inability to tolerate emotions. Okay. Whether it be my own emotions, oh my God, I'm going to be hurt, I'm going to be sad, someone's not going to like me. Or tolerating somebody else's emotion, like they may not like me, they may just be disappointed in me. I may lose the connection, you know, so fear of decision making is usually rooted in inability to tolerate emotion in one way or another.

• 44:41Ed Mylett?

  I have to take back what I just said. Now that you said that, I do struggle with making decisions in personal relationships.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:48Ed Mylett?

  For the exact reason you just said.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  You got it.

• 44:50Ed Mylett?

  And by the way, the exact scenario you just described, it's right now when we're doing this, it's the holidays. And I've had multiple situations like that, where I was just riddled with anxiety about them. Maybe they'll never invite me back. Maybe I can't, even though I had very legitimate reasons that I couldn't go.

• 45:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:07Ed Mylett?

  It's interesting because I'd say I'm a very decisive person. I think that's more in business or in, you know, that kind of stuff. But then in that other area, personal. There's still these underlying fears that I'm, I'm working on myself. So you did say something I'm really glad you brought up because I want to ask you about this. So for many people, and it doesn't have to just be the holidays, but it is the holidays while we're recording this, but it could be just randomly at any time. They're going to be around family members.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:31Ed Mylett?

  Some of which are negative, some of which are triggers like we've described earlier and they, you know, going in, I'm going to see uncle blah, blah, blah, or aunt this, or a parent or whatever it might be.

• 45:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:44Ed Mylett?

  And so, and going into it creates tremendous anxiety for people, tremendous angst. What counsel would you give if you know you're going to be going into an environment, a place, people that are likely to trigger you in a particular way, or just, man, they're just going to change your outlook and your energy?

• 46:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's so many things, you know, and by the way, I love saying this, I'm not only the hair club president, I'm a member of this group, right? I go home to my family too. It's the same thing. I cannot help it because we all slip into these old roles with family.

• 46:18Ed Mylett?

  It's so true.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  We slip into, you know, we slip into these old roles. So you get pulled back in

• 46:25Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  to the family dynamic, which makes it harder. So you kind of lose stability. You lose your competence in the world when you slip back into family. Right? And so it really is tricky for people, you know, and the, and we bring, there's, everybody wants the holidays to be perfect. Like watch the damn TV, all these beautiful moments, hallmark moments, whatever. That is not reality. We all bring, all of us to each family dinner. I'm not just bringing the good parts of me. I bring the good parts and the bad parts of me. And so does everybody else sitting at that table. So like this idea that it's going to be perfect is ridiculous.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  Like I, I always think about expectations, right? And especially now with the pandemic and some people haven't even seen their family in two years.

• 47:19Ed Mylett?

  True.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  I'm going to visit my parents the end of the month. I haven't seen them in a year and a half. Right? So the expectations are enormous for perfection.

• 47:29Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Red flag, red flag, red, like it ain't going to work that way. Right? So you've got to deal with expectations. And the thing I like to say to people is this. What are my expectations? What am I actually wanting out of this? Is it the perfect ham? Is it the best present? Or is it like real connection? You know, like, what do I want out of this? Like, what are my expectations? And also, we assume we know what other people's expectations are. Like, ask your mother. Ask your brother. What are they wanting out of this holiday? Because they actually may want something different. Ask your kids. Because what we do is we throw our kids with us. Right?

• 48:14Speaker 03

  Come, you're gonna enjoy this. This is important. Like, what are your expectations here? What do you want to accomplish here? Right? It reminds me, for anybody who has kids and who's been to Disney World. You spend all this money. You want it to be the best moment of their lives. And it's a show, excuse me. Often, it is terrible, right? It's because our expectations are way unrealistic. And they don't meet reality. Like, so bring it down to reality. What if actually, you connected with people in ways that you love them and care about them? And things you have in common? Because there's this way that all the political decisions,

• 48:59Speaker 03

  discussions, all the vaccine, blah, blah, blah. Like, why do we need to get into the differences instead of what we have in common? There's this way that people show up with their differences because they want to be seen. Yes. And heard, right? And what I say is this. We have more in common than we are different. Yeah. And I would rather focus on the similarities versus the differences. It just happened to me recently when I went to visit my, my, my husband's family and they started in politically.

• 49:39Ed Mylett?

  There you go.

• 49:40Speaker 03

  And I was like, I'm not interested. It was, it was, I was like, you know what? I love you guys. It's been such a long time. How about so and so? And I kind of changed the subject.

• 49:50Ed Mylett?

  Very good. That's a great technique because

• 49:52Speaker 03

  You know?

• 49:53Ed Mylett?

  Isn't it odd? Cause I used to do this with my dad. Politically, we would disagree on stuff. It was like, of all the things, I love this man and we have so much in common and we love so many of the same people and the same things. Why in the world am I picking the 2% of the things we don't agree on in the rare time I get with him?

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's the, it's because we want them to know us. It's because we want them to know us. Instead of us getting to know them, you know, Ed, it's called theory of mind. It's the capacity to step outside of yourself and see if you can see what's important for them. Right? When I travel around the world and I, before pandemic, I used to travel around the world teaching I F S and trauma and internal family systems and all. And what I will tell you is trauma, the resiliency of the human spirit are everywhere. We all have that in common. And so I want to tell people like,

• 50:56Speaker 03

  join what you have in common over the holidays. You may have a much better time.

• 51:02Ed Mylett?

  It's so good, so profound. And the reason that you described, I never thought before is we want them to know us instead of us just connect and meet them where they are. At least we know why we do it. That's so powerful. Okay. I got one last question.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  Well, I'll just say this, the more you know them, the more they are genuinely curious to get to know you.

• 51:21Ed Mylett?

  So true. That's true in everything, by the way, business, relationships, family, everything. I love when I play golf with someone for four or five hours and they'll tell a mutual friend of mine, man, I love Ed. And then he'll say, what does he do? Because we spent the four or five hours talking about them, right? And then the next time we'll probably talk about me. So you're so right. Last question. I've enjoyed this so, so much. And I'm so glad it's happening at this time for both my audience, but also for me. This is just wonderful. Last thing is this tough one. You had trauma in your life and a lot of people take that trauma they've been through, whether it's they've survived cancer, or they've lost a business, or they were divorced, or there were some form of abuse in their life, or whatever it might be.

• 52:06Ed Mylett?

  And they then attach their identity to that trauma. I'm a survivor. And their entire life becomes attached to this identity of their trauma and they never escape it. It's such a, it's obvious to me why it happens, but it's a sad thing to watch. That's you're more than that, as you said earlier. So what would you say to someone who has someone in their life that's attached to their trauma as their identity? Or many maybe listen and go, wow, maybe I do do that. I am the divorced one. I am the one who lost a child. I am the one who had cancer. I am the one who had a business failure. I am the one who had this abuse or mistreatment. What would you say?

• 52:44Speaker 03

  So in a phrase, a part of you is, it's not all of you. But yes, people do take on these parts as identity. Okay. And honestly, I'm going to say this, and this may or may not be popular, but it is one of my mantras, one of my missions is when people do overly identify with one side or the other. Okay. When you were talking about Ed, like I'm a victim, I'm a victim. It's who I am, as they take it on as an identity. I'm always saying to people, it's a part of you. It's not all of you.

• 53:27Speaker 03

  And in fact, we all have all of it within us. I am interested in crossing this divide. Every victim has perpetrator parts. Every perpetrator has victim parts and we polarize because we want to be seen in on one side instead of the other. And honestly, I'm working on a show right now that is talking about the victim and perpetrator within all of us. Okay. And that's hard for people to, this is what happens politically, one side or the other. Like we all have both sides and that's hard for people to come to terms with.

• 54:12Speaker 03

  But it is one of my missions and one of my mantras is, you know, you're not going to be able to heal from your trauma. Unless you look at the ways you have perpetrated either within yourself or others. Okay, so this polarity of us and them, I'm interested in breaking down that bit wall and bridging the commonality in all of us.

• 54:37Ed Mylett?

  Well, you would change culture if you could do that because I think

• 54:40Speaker 03

  I'm trying.

• 54:40Ed Mylett?

  I think, I think you've changed so many lives today, but that would change culture. Just, I'm so grateful for today, but that idea that we both have perpetrator and victim is true.

• 54:50Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 54:50Ed Mylett?

  And hard to accept.

• 54:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 54:52Ed Mylett?

  And we embracing the victim part of ourselves ironically isn't all that difficult. Embracing the perpetrator part of us, that's a whole other conversation. And today's conversation was riveting. I hope everybody stayed at the end because even right here towards the very end, there were some breakthroughs in there for me. I got to tell you, Frank, I enjoyed this so, so much and I'm very, very grateful that we've met. And I've told you already, I think we're going to do this again.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  I would love to do this again, absolutely.

• 55:19Ed Mylett?

  You're incredible, brother. And again, guys, I love this. Trauma blocks love and love heals trauma. That is one of my favorite things I've ever heard and he's the author of Transcending Trauma. You guys should go get that book and you guys should share this show. It's the fastest growing show on planet earth for a reason. Because we change people's lives every week by bringing you the best of the best. And Dr. Frank Anderson certainly fits that description. Frank, thank you for being with us here today.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

• 55:47Ed Mylett?

  It was awesome. All right, everybody.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  Doing what you're doing.

• 55:50Ed Mylett?

  I'm going to keep doing it, brother, and hopefully

• 55:51Speaker 03

  You're part of it. You're part of the solution.

• 55:54Ed Mylett?

  And I want to have you back. I know that we're going to do this again. So, hey, everybody, please share this. And I just want to tell you all, God bless you and max out your lives.