How to Scale While Keeping Your Brand Intact (Kelly Wearstler)

Kelly Wearstler is one of the most influential designers in the world, but her real genius may be how she turned taste into a scalable multi-million dollar business. Over the years, she’s built a company that stretches far beyond interiors, expanding into product, licensing, creative direction, and media all while staying closely involved in the work itself. In this conversation, we get into the structure, decision-making, and resilience behind that growth. In this episode, Emma explores: How Kelly built a 60-person studio Why she believes in “sequence” over speed The commercial strategy behind creative work How she’s using AI within her company Investing in hierarchy and leadership Knowing when to walk away Why longevity matters more than hype This is a conversation about building something that evolves and making sure it’s designed to endure.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  Today's guest isn't your typical founder. She's a creative force who has built a global brand around her taste and her point of view. Kelly Wearstler is one of the most influential interior designers in the world. But we're not here to talk about her taste alone. We're actually going to get into the brand and the business behind it. From working an unpaid apprenticeship in New York to waiting tables to a 16 person studio and a business that spans interiors, product, creative direction and media. Kelly is the epitome of scaling with intention and precision. In my conversation with her today, we're going to talk about risk, reinvention, motherhood, money, failure and how she's evolved and continues to push boundaries with the introduction

• 0:53Emma Grede?

  of AI in a largely creative led company. Kelly built a successful business and one that's designed to last. And my loves, before we get into the episode, please don't forget to like and subscribe.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. Personal finance can feel like a pop quiz you didn't study for. This podcast is your study guide. On NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, you'll hear from trusted journalists who explain the why behind major financial decisions. You'll get research-backed insights and clear pros and cons, whether you're planning a big purchase or just want to grow your wealth. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast on your favorite podcast app.

• 1:42Emma Grede?

  Kelly, thank you so much for being here today.

• 1:45Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me. This is like such an honor and I'm so, so happy to be here with you.

• 1:51Emma Grede?

  Honestly, I couldn't be more happy. I'm telling you, when I said that I was going to have you on the show today, so many people were excited around me. They were like, oh my God, I follow her on Instagram. She's so cool. I was like, you have no idea. But to start us off, I think so many people know you. Obviously you're an AD one. Hundred interior designer. A lot of people will know you through your various commercial projects, or maybe they've stayed at a hotel that you've designed. But I would love for you, in your own words, to just talk a little bit about exactly what it is that you do and this kind of incredible business and the scope of the business. Because there's so many different facets of what you do that I'd love it to come from your own mouth.

• 2:33Speaker 03

  I am a designer and I basically have six verticals within my company. And it all started with design and architecture. And we design residential projects, we design hotels. I also have licensing, we do creative directions for brands. We have a brand partnerships. I also have a media business, Wearstler World, that I launched last year and it's on Substack and it's so much fun.

• 3:02Emma Grede?

  We love your Substack. Everyone in this office is following you on Substack, I can't tell you.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  It's so much fun, like just sharing it. Like I share like the tips and things that I'm loving, things I want to buy and it crosses over like beauty and fashion and design and travel and architecture and like cool places to stay. And the sky's the limit, like I really want to like push that forward. And then also I launched a gallery last year, Side Hustle. And this is like really like about the art of collaboration and working with different artists, which is also something that I'm really so passionate about and you know, really looking at how they think and creating unique works with them.

• 3:41Emma Grede?

  Unbelievable. And you also have a product business, right? That's in the licensing arm, I'm guessing.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  Yes, but we also produce, we design and produce our own products. So we have workshops, we have our own production team, we do our own sales and distribution. We have, you know, e-commerce and then we also have the licensing division.

• 4:00Emma Grede?

  I mean, it's wild. This is a, it's a big old business. It is crazy. It is crazy. What do you think it is that's allowed you to kind of have this business where you're kind of, you know, you have this obviously unbelievable creative brain, but you have a real commerciality to what you do as well? What is it in your personality that's allowed you to have like this kind of crossover and the breadth of business that you have?

• 4:25Speaker 03

  Well, it's just being curious and I love designing and so much comes out of our projects that we design, whether it's for residential, designing something proprietary, everyone wants something unique, or it's for a hospitality project. And, you know, really looking at, everyone wants something unique. And good design is paramount and the quality, the craftsmanship. And everyone wants something like, really like this functional, something that does something for them. And it has a unique point of view, but it's also like somewhat down the middle of the road, so it appeals to more people.

• 5:01Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and you're a masterful at doing that because I, I know like the research and the stories and how like brilliantly kind of you think about things, but to somebody else, they just look at an object and they're like, I need that. Like, we all were very, very lucky that we stayed at the Santa Monica Hotel and we were dying because everything that we looked at is something that you just want to buy and take home and have in your house.

• 5:25Speaker 03

  And it's just, you know, it's a mix, like how I design is like contemporary works and a lot of things we design that go into our projects, but it's also like vintage and classic pieces that really like create a really interesting tension in our projects.

• 5:40Emma Grede?

  I feel like that crosses over so much into like the way that you present yourself from a fashion point of view as well, because I follow you on Instagram like so many of us would do. And you've got like a bit of old, a bit of new, something that you've collected, something that's not even supposed to be clothing. It's like so incredible the way you put things together.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's like I dress, how I design, like there's always something that is, is vintage, this very soulful and it like, it has a story and it has like patina and interest and soul, like that's something that's so important. But then there's something that is contemporary that like creates like this perfect like friction, this beautiful friction.

• 6:20Emma Grede?

  Can I ask you, what changed for you from, I guess, the beginning of your career when you were like more servicing clients to this part of your business that's more about your own lines and collections? Is it something, is there like a big shift in the way that you see your business today?

• 6:36Speaker 03

  You know, starting out, like I'm in a service business and I it's all about creating unique projects and being a good listener, you know, really like loving that. I love basically I create, we design someone's love story, whether it's for a brand or it's for a client. In doing that, we, you know, are, there's only so far we can go. Like, I want to stay a boutique sized studio. I'm there every day. I'm there all day long. I'm providing the creative leadership to the team, which is so important. And I also want to scale my business. And so this is where like the licensing and the design was able to be a

• 7:20Speaker 03

  big part of our business. And this is where I can scale, hiring really talented team, collaborating with them, also working with these amazing brand partnerships, like the best in class who we're partnering with. And so we create interesting energy, we do something new, our partners push us to do something new, we push them to work in something, maybe another material they haven't worked in before. So the business is, is constantly feeding each other. There's a lot of cross pollination that goes on.

• 7:52Emma Grede?

  Yes, no doubt.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Which is great. And design is the foundation of the business. And there's so much that comes out of that.

• 7:59Emma Grede?

  Can you tell me a little bit about your origin story? Like, how did you even get into interior design?

• 8:05Speaker 03

  I grew up in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and I was really curious. I came from like a lineage of women that were really strong and worked, like both of my grandmothers worked, my one grandmother worked in a factory, my other grandmother worked 50 years as an illegal assistant for an attorney. And I had a very young mom. She was 18 when she had my sister and I.

• 8:29Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  We grew up in a city that there wasn't a lot of culture. And but my mother was so curious. And she was always about like, you know, you and your sister have to take care of yourselves. You have to be your own independent person. Nobody's going to take care of you. Other than you, I mean, that was like what these women were always saying in my life. And so that came at like a very young age. And then my mother, who is like incredibly curious, loved design. And so she was constantly, I was going to thrift stores. I was going to flea markets. I was going to auctions everywhere with her. And I can just remember going into these.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  See, there were like these like smelly little holes in the wall and like digging for the treasure. And I was so excited to go. And I just remember opening up these magazines and like seeing fashion and seeing graphic design and opening up all these incredible books that were taking me to another place. Cause I was in Myrtle Beach, like there.

• 9:30Emma Grede?

  It was like escapism for you.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  It was escapism. And, and I was absolutely loving it. And I, you know, just kind of dreamed of like, you know, just doing something creative.

• 9:41Emma Grede?

  And when was the first time you sort of understood that this need to have beautiful things and be in these thrift stores and find like little treasures? When did you understand that that could parlay into a career?

• 9:53Speaker 03

  You know, so I went to, I left when I was 18. I went to school in, in Boston, like I, I just wanted to get out and went to school in Boston. And I was waiting tables while I was in school. And cause you know, I paid my way through college and I was going to school. I was going to work and then going to my studio space at night. And like, I just knew I wanted to like at some point, like have my own business. Like I didn't know exactly, I was studying graphic design. I changed my major to architecture in college.

• 10:27Emma Grede?

  Oh, wow.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  And then I was just, you know, just working really hard. Like, you know, all the students were going to Europe for vacation and I was working. And I loved it. I was doing like internships and things like that. Then I ended up, after I graduated, I moved to New York and I ended up getting a job working with a very famous like graphic designer, Milton Glazier. He, he actually designed the I Love New York logo.

• 10:54Emma Grede?

  No.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:55Emma Grede?

  Oh, wow.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  He's like iconic.

• 10:56Emma Grede?

  That's insane.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  He's amazing.

• 10:58Emma Grede?

  That's insane. What training ground that must have been for you.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  And and I also had visibility to, he was also designing restaurants and he was like really a multi disciplinary. It was my first kind of visibility.

• 11:10Emma Grede?

  So what are you at this, how old are you at this point?

• 11:12Speaker 03

  I was uh like twenty one.

• 11:14Emma Grede?

  Oh, wow. So like super formative. This is your first job out of college and you're like really in the thick of it with somebody. Was he iconic at the time?

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, he was iconic. And he was doing like a lot of like um album covers and like restaurants and things like that. But I was working for free. Cause it was an apprenticeship.

• 11:31Emma Grede?

  We all did back in those days.

• 11:33Speaker 03

  And and so then I was also waiting tables, which is like one of the best jobs like that you could do.

• 11:40Emma Grede?

  I think the combination of waiting tables and working for free could like be for almost like, I don't know, like nine out of ten of the really successful people I know.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  And and you know what? It's like things go three sixty because like I know how to design a restaurant because I know in depth how they operate. Like I just know so well because I worked in them for so long.

• 12:03Emma Grede?

  Well, also it's that combination of like understanding how to service people, right? Like what matters to somebody as they come into a place and what the graphic design layout of a menu is and how people feel comfortable in a space, how long do they stay in it? It's all very formative. Like I always say that I am a good host because I worked in a delicatessen and I really understood like if you did a good coffee, you could get someone to stay and have like a piece of cake and then they'd buy something off the shelf. But the whole thing was like, you know, like you're learning, you're picking up all of these signals if if you're smart enough to do that. So when you come, so you're in New York, you're working this unpaid in apprenticeship, I guess. How long do you stay in that job?

• 12:44Speaker 03

  I stayed in that job for, I think it was like ten months.

• 12:48Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  And then I knew like, and living in New York when you have no money is so tough, as you know. And also like I grew up on the beach and I wanted to be in nature, but I also wanted to be in an urban setting where there was like culture and I could learn. And a friend of mine from Boston uh said you have. To come to L A and check it out. So I came to L A and he actually had like a place in Malibu where I stayed. He was like, there was an apartment. There's actually apartments in Malibu.

• 13:16Emma Grede?

  There are.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  And by, yeah, by the pier.

• 13:18Emma Grede?

  That's insane.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  I I stayed with him for like um three days and I was like hooked. I was like, oh, my God, I have to be here. And then I went back and like packed my shit up and then I moved to to L A.

• 13:30Emma Grede?

  That's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. So take me back to the moment where you decided to strike out on your own because again, this business that you've created, like I always talk about you as having like this one of one career. You've got all of these verticals. They're all so kind of like inextricably like you, like they feel like it's like such a you're the person that created these things. You've created this business in your own likeness. But I guess it didn't start that way. So I'd love for you to take me back to the beginning and tell me what it was like as you decided to go out on your own.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Well, it came, it kind of happened unexpectedly because I so I came to L A and I was like, okay, I gotta find a place to live. And I had no money because I also had credit card debt because I was like working for free and it was just, you know, the whole thing moving out. And so I got a job working at a restaurant in in uh West Hollywood. It was like a lot of people from the film business came to this restaurant and I became friendly with this couple. And we would talk design and go to museums and I would tell them I was going to the flea market and and they were like, hey, why don't like, do you want to help us with our house? We just got a house in Venice in the canals. And we, you know, we'll give you like the living room and like you work on that and uh like there was no budget.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  So I'm like, yes, like I'm gonna do this. And I was doing everything, like I was painting. I was going to the the paint store in the morning, finding the painter, painting, going to the flea market with a flashlight in the morning. At like five in the morning, we find all the like good stuff and like like having a cart, putting things in my car.

• 15:07Emma Grede?

  That's wild.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  I was doing everything because I wanted this project so bad to to just be amazing.

• 15:12Emma Grede?

  Did you think about it as like a a formative project or were you just doing your? Makes a favor like was there a point in your mind where you're like, oh, this is gonna be like a some kind of showroom for me or like a, you know.

• 15:23Speaker 03

  No, I wasn't. I was just doing what I felt in my heart. Like, I wanted to make the clients happy. It was kind of like the perfect storm. So I did the one room and then I ended up doing the entire house. And then, you know, they had friends over and I ended up getting other projects. And so I was like, like shit, I have my, my own business. But I was still working out of my apartment. I was doing, I was still waiting tables, like, because you're nervous. It's like, what is the next job I'm gonna get? Like, I didn't know. And so then I started getting a couple of calls. And then I was like, this is amazing. And I ended up hiring an assistant who actually worked at a vintage store that was like so great and, and he was helping me in my apartment.

• 16:06Emma Grede?

  So this really was born out of a passion and you just like throwing yourself in and then word of mouth?

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:14Emma Grede?

  That was it. That was the beginning.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  Instagram, there was no like advertising.

• 16:18Emma Grede?

  So there's no way of publicizing your work. It's like, if you got invited to that couple's house and was like, oh, this is like a lovely living room or a lovely home, they would say, oh, Kelly did this. Was it a scary decision? Because again, I speak to so many young founders and I think that people that are sitting here listening to this at home that are dreaming of like jumping into something that they really love, but it's not quite like the thing that they dream about is not quite matching their, you know, day job, if you like. Was there trepidation from you, like giving up waiting tables or like?

• 16:50Speaker 03

  Yes. Oh, my God, I would have nightmares. I'm like, oh, my God, I still have dreams. I'm not joking. That I had to go back to waiting tables. Like, is that crazy? I still have dreams like that.

• 17:00Emma Grede?

  I'm sure you'd be really good at it. You're a great host. There you go. You've always got that to fall back on. You've always got that to fall back on. All right. So you start and I, and I wanna fast forward a bit because I feel like I, I wanna dig into the business that you run today. But how did you go from you and this assistant that came from the vintage shop to having like a sixty people studio now?

• 17:23Speaker 03

  So, so when I finished my apartment. And it looked amazing. I'm like, I'm gonna get a photographer and we're gonna shoot it. And then I'm gonna submit it to a magazine. Cause that was like, like how we all, the people operated there to like have their work in a magazine. And so I did, and I got a call, I remember from Elle Decor. I was like, oh my god, I was so excited. And they published it and it was uh, the up and coming new like designers.

• 17:48Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  And then I also uh, started working with uh, this developer who's now my husband. Um, on, on, like he was buying all of these like uh, historic apartment buildings in LA, like really cool ones. And, and I met him through a friend and he was like, hey, can you help me with like designing the lobbies and the corridors? And like some of the common areas.

• 18:09Emma Grede?

  And did you immediately go like, yeah, I can design a like corridor or lobby area?

• 18:14Speaker 03

  I always would say yes.

• 18:16Emma Grede?

  No, no fear. There's nothing in you that feels fear, imposter syndrome, like anything that would stop you from just going for it?

• 18:24Speaker 03

  No, cause I take risks. Like that's like what I'm about and how, that's how I grow. I continue to do things that are tough and I'm scared, but you just do them.

• 18:34Emma Grede?

  Where does that come from Kelly? Where does the ability to just like take a risk?

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Because I wanna become better. I always wanna be better. I always like wanna, one up myself, right? I always wanna just get better and I'm curious and I'm determined, I'm, I'm ambitious. I love what I do. Like absolutely live and breathe what I do.

• 18:55Emma Grede?

  It's just, it's amazing. I mean, it's amazing to me because you would have been such a young woman at that time. And I'm guessing that the competition, you like here in LA, there would have been so many options and fabulous people that were doing like big celebrity projects and you're just like out here.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  And it was scary. I asked a lot of questions. Like I can remember my first big project was in Brettwood. It was actually new construction and they, you know, the contractor, there was like budgets, there was timelines and it was like very structured and like there was a lot of things I didn't know. And so I asked, I remember the contractor was like amazing and I just, I wasn't afraid to ask questions and not, not. Um, let people know I didn't exactly know the answer or how to operate. And I just watched a lot. I spent so much time at all of these, all of our sites. And I really watched like the plumbers and the electricians and, and you know, everyone pouring the foundation and really understanding

• 19:54Speaker 03

  like construction and design because I didn't come, I wasn't working at a studio. I wasn't working in an architectural office before. So a lot of it. You know, you like.

• 20:03Emma Grede?

  You had to learn on the job.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, on the job.

• 20:05Emma Grede?

  Do you think that that still happens to you now? Because obviously you have a lot of different parts of your business. Do you still start a new thing or go into a new category? And feel like you can ask a lot of questions? Or do you feel like you need to have all the answers at this point?

• 20:19Speaker 03

  No, I, I still ask questions. I mean, because we still get presented with challenging projects. And we work on like really large projects and some of them are historic renovations. And there's just a lot of questions. You're always presented with something new.

• 20:33Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  When I was working on the residential projects and then I had this opportunity to work on a hotel. It was my first hotel project and I got an office on La Brea, a very small office. I had like two people and the developer, who is now my husband. He now had investors to buy a hotel. So there was a hotel, the Avalon Hotel in Beverly Hills. And, and we had a platonic relationship at that point. He liked me.

• 20:57Emma Grede?

  You knew he liked you?

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. He would tell my friends. It was sweet.

• 21:02Emma Grede?

  You're like, oh, okay, that's sweet.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  I was like, I have to do this hotel. Like, I really want to do it. It's like this cool nineteen fifties, like boomerang shaped building. Like Marilyn Monroe lived there. It had all this history.

• 21:15Emma Grede?

  Unreal.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  And um, so he's like, I don't know, I have investors. And I was like, well, let's like, just see what you can do. I really want to do it. So he went back and they said, well, if, if Kelly does the model room, every hotel you do, you have to do a model room and outfit it. Like we actually, you sleep there. You want to make sure everything is perfect before you like, you know.

• 21:34Emma Grede?

  Do two hundred rooms or something, yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  So I did the model room. I actually moved from my office on La Brea with my team of only like three people. We actually took a room at the Avalon. And we like just lived and breathed it because it was it's a new beast. It's a completely different animal. Like just where all the vendors where things are made fabricated. Like it's just a very more complex business designing a hotel. And so I did the model room and that was the deal. You have to do the model room if we love it. And then you find an architect who's actually done a hotel before. And I did that, found amazing architect. They helped and it was a huge success. So this is like my big moment where I, you know, it was a very sexy project and it got a lot of like global press and I got another hotel after that.

• 22:21Speaker 03

  Maison 140, this hotel in Beverly Hills and like things were getting like. That's the beginning of the beginning. The beginning of the beginning.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Do you ever wish you could ask nosey questions about people's money?

• 22:35Speaker 05

  I have $729.71 in my bank account. We bought, you know, $1.3 million house on a $350,000 income.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  On the podcast, What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it.

• 22:51Speaker 06

  I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.

• 22:56Speaker 04

  Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 23:08Emma Grede?

  Is there like something, a lesson or something that you learned from those early days? Just as your kind of reputation was being formed that informs how you run your studio today, I wonder?

• 23:20Speaker 03

  I mean, I do, it's the same. Like I'm present, I'm there, there's like structure, I'm, you know, organized and I still like let curiosity lead me and, you know, I'm so open to like many possibilities. And, you know, when, after we finished those hotels, I got a call from a, a big publisher in New York. And she was like, I've seen your projects, I've been watching you and I want to do a book. And so I did, I did a book, I never thought in a million years. And it's so funny, like I look at it, it's called Modern Glamour and it looks like Instagram. Like it has photos of you shopping.

• 23:58Emma Grede?

  No.

• 23:58Speaker 03

  Like quotes on like pages and it was like it was a it was a bestselling book. It was like really exciting.

• 24:05Emma Grede?

  That's crazy. So how are you thinking at that point, right? You've done a beautiful and very like revered hotel project. You've got your next big project that's coming down the pipe. You're asked to do a book. How are you thinking about structuring your business at that point? Because I feel like you're kind of like, obviously in this moment where, you know, like the spotlight's on you. There's a lot of different ways that that can go. And obviously you've taken it so far as to like build this business. But like, I also think like when you have a business that's rooted in design, fashion, like they go in style and they go out of style. And yet you've got this incredible thing that feels that it's like got a lot of longevity. So did you have a thought about I'm building this type of business that's going to get me to here?

• 24:49Emma Grede?

  Like I just, I'm curious about the thinking and how the whole thing kind of gets shaped up and comes together.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Like I had no playbook, like honestly, nothing. And I wasn't like, I honestly never dreamed I'd be working on the stuff that I'm working on now.

• 25:04Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 25:04Speaker 03

  No, never. And it's like, I just, like I always say, like, you're just like surfing the wave and you're just like getting on the opportunity that feels good. Like, that's so important, like things that feel authentic and things that really feel like meaningful to me. And that there'll be an end result. I mean, granted, when I started, it was like, I was taking any job.

• 25:25Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  You know, I just make sure like that the projects we're taking, you know, our partners, but there really wasn't. I just was like slow and steady and it's still that way. I mean, this is like, I've had, you know, an amazing, you know, career. And it's just like, it's a hard work. It's like being there. I'm literally at my studio every day.

• 25:46Emma Grede?

  You are.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  Yes. And I'm in like, I don't have a separate office. It's an open air studio. And we have like these big work tables in the middle of the studio and it's constant cross pollination. I'm like talking to, you know, the furniture department. I'm talking to the marketing department, the sales, the finance, the architects. It's just. Constant like chess game, like really.

• 26:09Emma Grede?

  I'm curious about what type of leader you are, because it does feel like you're very like hands on. And I wonder what like decision making looks like for you, like how have you figured out like what type of leader you wanna be within your studio.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  It's still like a work in progress. Like I show and I set an example through passion, through hard work. Dedication, also like working well with my team, like collaborating and being open to new ideas. And like all of that is, um, uh, you know, just like a big part of what I do and. And I'm always like, I'm constantly learning how to lead better. Like, I don't like confrontation. Like, I had a long time of like. This person is not performing, like I have to talk to them, like I had butterflies in my stomach, I hated it.

• 26:58Emma Grede?

  Really, you do?

• 26:59Speaker 03

  Like, I just never liked it. Like, I just don't like telling somebody they're not performing.

• 27:05Emma Grede?

  So what do you do in that case?

• 27:07Speaker 03

  Uh, like, I mean, sometimes you just like, you just let it go and it turns, like, it just, it turns sour. Like, you can't, you have to, like, this book, this Radical Candor, which has been like an amazing book. I've gotten better for sure. But I still have to continue like to, to work on that.

• 27:26Emma Grede?

  No, and I, first of all, I love that you say that because I think it's a, it's a very female trait, actually, but in specifically in leadership. But it's one that I think so many people have, right? They don't want to be seen as someone that is like. Mean or bitchy or not saying like, you know, like, you know, just not being kind, not being empathetic. I, I mean, I don't have a problem with that.

• 27:52Emma Grede?

  I always feel like I'm totally fine telling you what you don't wanna hear, but it isn't something that comes naturally to a lot of people, but obviously. To be as successful as you are, you've had to figure that out. Like, you've, you've got no choice, otherwise you'd have an office full of people that. Aren't doing what you need them to do.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, and now you're like, just over the years, like you learn, like, certain things to look for when hiring people and. Like the questions asking, I hold my. To like such a high standard that I want like the team that I surround myself every day to be as hardworking, as passionate, as excited. Like, we're working on fun stuff, like amazing projects. Like we every, we should just be like, you know, like I feel so blessed that I have these like great projects I'm working on and and I put in the time, I put in the effort and um and the creativity and you know, you want to surround yourself with those people.

• 28:44Emma Grede?

  Totally. What are the qualities that you look for in team members or team leaders that come and work with you?

• 28:51Speaker 03

  Somebody that like like really is passionate. Like that's the first thing I look for and somebody obviously that has great taste level and they're good at their skill set. So if they're a furniture designer or they're an architect, you know, or like, you know, a salesperson, like have they are like the top, you know, really like passionate about what they do. And I want somebody that wants to be there. Like I don't, it's like, you know, people like I want to work remote. I want to like, no, like we're here. I'm here every day. Everyone to work together. I want everyone to sit around a table because that is where amazing ideas happen.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  That is where like the the shared passion and the unexpected um unique qualities of a project appear.

• 29:39Emma Grede?

  Can it work remotely in your business?

• 29:42Speaker 03

  So I always was about, if you want a job at the studio, you have to be there. It's very difficult to find great talent, top performers, talented people, people that want to work hard. There's many different uh skill sets there. And so I started looking at um, we just hired somebody, um, an architect from Paris. He's going back and forth where ours also are bringing in some other outside uh team, but they actually are all very like like senior.

• 30:14Emma Grede?

  Senior. Yeah, I think there's a difference actually, and I think there's such a benefit of early in your career having that proximity because A, you need visibility for with your boss, right? It's like you need to be in the room. And you need to be seen so that you can be promoted. But there is just no, I don't know, there's just no replacing proximity. Like especially in the creative businesses where like I need to be around you. I need to hear what's like informing your decisions and I just need to like watch how you move. Like I, there's just nothing, especially in the early part of your career. There's nothing that can replace that kind of proximity.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  No, and as like, as a, you know, the kind of the creative leadership. Like I wanna have everyone there so we're all learning from each other. Like I love continuing to learn from, you know, the, a junior designer in my studio to a director. And, you know, everyone has something to offer. So, so now I'm like, we're bringing in people from like other parts of the world, working remotely. But they still will come and they'll like stay a month with us, they'll go back. So it's like kind of back and forth.

• 31:20Emma Grede?

  Back and forth a little bit. And I'm curious to talk to you about money and how your relationship with money might have changed. Like from when you started to now.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  You know, I always like invested in myself. I had no money, I had to work hard for everything I had. And I love that, it's given me so much opportunity. I love to spend, I'm not a saver. And I leverage like my uh credit cards to build like my business and get me where I am now. And I don't wanna get in debt again, that was not fun. And I had got a fa- financial advisor that helped me just, I mean, I, who knows, you could have ten credit cards, my god.

• 32:04Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  And.

• 32:05Emma Grede?

  It's, it sounds like you know, did you get yourself into a tricky situation?

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it was so liberating when I was able to like pay that off.

• 32:12Emma Grede?

  It's very usual because I think that like the options for capital are really, you know, reduced when you're a woman. Especially when you're a woman in a creative business. It isn't so easy to go out and raise or to get people to understand what you would have done. So you probably just had to do what you could do to get the money to, you know. Do a very expensive business.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, now, I would say like I reinvested, I reinvested in team, like hiring like the best team and like over the years, like you can't hire like these like director level people. And so it, you know, takes a long time to build a business when you have team that isn't maybe as like skilled as you'd want them to be. But now I like I invest in my team, I invest in hierarchy, like having like the right hierarchy in every department is so important because I don't have to be in the weeds. I don't, there are, you know, we obviously have bottleneck, it happens at a studio, but having directors now really helps. I'm always tell everyone I'm always available, you can text me anytime, call me on the

• 33:14Speaker 03

  weekend, like I'm available always, come grab me, I'm at the studio all day, so you know, you can interrupt me, I'm totally fine with that. And, um, and so really investing in the team and in technology, uh, investing in that.

• 33:30Emma Grede?

  I've read a little bit about this, you'd spoken a lot about, I want to make sure we cover, I'm gonna get back to money, don't worry, because you know, I love that. But I did read a lot about what you're doing in AI, because you're really like, I think I must have read about it on Substack or something like that, but you've really embraced AI in your studio.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yes, and, and, you know, we were early adopters, like, I was so interested in it, it was like, like during the, the NFT when all that was happening.

• 33:57Emma Grede?

  Oh, really?

• 33:58Speaker 03

  I went chat, like, yeah, like four years ago, like super early, and I remember learning and reading about AI and just starting to listen to every podcast, like educating myself, and I still do, I listen to podcasts on it all the time.

• 34:10Emma Grede?

  Is that what you mean when you say you invested in yourself, like you invest in your own learning and understanding?

• 34:16Speaker 03

  And then I'm more investing in team to help us implement AI and strategies in the studio. So when I first used AI, it was probably like three and a half years ago in the studio, and I started it in a very like kind of like small department and, uh, really started working with a team who was really interested in it. And now we use it, it's like company-wide, every department is creating the most incredible efficient. It enables us to be more creative because we have more time. And it is a new creative spirit on our team always.

• 34:49Emma Grede?

  Did you have any pushback from your staff who feel like, wait a minute, I came here to do a different type of job, this is replacing me, I won't be needed at this place anymore. What does that look like?

• 35:00Speaker 03

  No, I think people are open, especially in the creative, in the creative realm. We use so many different tools. And it is so, like, it's like so exciting. Like, I would say I'm like a tech enthusiast. And now there's like OpenClaw. Do you know OpenClaw?

• 35:16Emma Grede?

  I know a little bit about it, not much. How are you guys using it?

• 35:19Speaker 03

  Well, we're just starting. We're actually investing in a team member that's going to help us. But OpenClaw is like this new platform, or it's this new tool that basically will be an agent. It will operate for you. It will work all night. It's like having an assistant. There's some security like ramifications right now. It's so new. It's only like two weeks new.

• 35:41Emma Grede?

  So what would you use it for? Like to create a new project or like, how does it work?

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Like, we're looking at it to, like, the use cases that we're doing now is, okay, we're looking for art for a project. And we want the, because this is a big, big time-consuming effort is like curation.

• 36:01Emma Grede?

  Absolutely.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  Curating, like we curate globally for our projects, but it takes a lot of time.

• 36:06Emma Grede?

  Oh my goodness, you can use it for something like?

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, yes. So the use cases that I have right now are abstract art. And, you know, we want like, you know, pastel colors and we want it about like forty eight inches by forty eight inches. And then like fill a folder, scour the globe. But this is also the price. And these are maybe the galleries and then it will work like twenty four hours a day.

• 36:32Emma Grede?

  That's insane because you could pay somebody to do that for weeks or a month to find you the right pieces, right?

• 36:37Speaker 03

  That's how long it takes. So we have some other use cases that we're doing right now. And so this is like such a game changer. Like, and I'm so excited. I'm so fired up for this.

• 36:49Emma Grede?

  Is there any part of it that worries you or scares you for the future of your business? Because I understand, you know, certainly for us, we, you know, have really embraced AI. But I think by the same token, there's an awareness that so many more people in the business become redundant. And yet. We keep them in the business because there's nowhere else, but like where else are people going to go? But is there any kind of worry for you that some of the kind of human and the tactile element of things that you do gets lost or?

• 37:19Speaker 03

  No, because everyone, at the end of the day, everyone wants something that's comfortable. And how's technology? Somebody, everyone wants something that is emotional and has the hand, the craft, how how a chair is fabricated, how it's assembled. And it's like so much of it is in the execution. Like you can have a great idea on paper and come up with the most amazing design and AI and and you know with uh with AI. But it's all in the execution. Like what is the assembly? What is the material? What is the hand? And that's never going to replace. Yeah, AI will, you know, pack boxes and things like that.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  But is it really going to create like this like emotional response, this like experience that leaves like, you know, a lasting memory like what a human can do?

• 38:06Emma Grede?

  And do you think?

• 38:08Speaker 03

  No. No.

• 38:09Emma Grede?

  No. Can't replace you.

• 38:11Speaker 03

  Although I haven't had the massage by the robot, we'll see.

• 38:14Emma Grede?

  My trainer had a massage by a robot the other day and he said, no, I'm going back to, I'm going back to Cecile, our lady. I was like, I could have told you that, bro. That's crazy. I just couldn't deal with the malfunction thing. I'll test anything in the business, but not, not on my body. No, thank you. Although I wish, I kind of liked the idea of that manicure thing. Have you seen the little?

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 38:35Emma Grede?

  Robot manicure. It's already AI, but it's a robot manicure. I was like, well, that would save us a lot of time.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  No, for sure.

• 38:40Emma Grede?

  I thought that would be really handy. All right, let me take you just back to this money question because again, you're in such a creative business. Is there ever a time when you think, I have to take this project because the money would just be too goddamn good not to?

• 38:55Speaker 03

  No, because I like, I feel like financially secure. And now I want to work on projects that I'm so passionate about and that I'm going to learn from. We have the opportunity to work on this like really small, tiny, little hole in the wall restaurant by very passionate chef. And there's no budget, but it's like, I'm going to do it, like. Working in Mexico City, working with a creative partner that's so passionate, like, things like that I love. And then I'm gonna learn from. I'm working in like, you know, an interesting culture and so it's so exciting.

• 39:31Emma Grede?

  But there's no part of you that has to balance that and say, oh my god, like, I really need this massive hotel thing to come forward. So I can do that little thing in Mexico City.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, there, there is a balance, like, part of our licensing business helps to afford us to make smart decisions, like, we're, you know, our licensing business is like about two hundred million a year.

• 39:52Emma Grede?

  Unbelievable.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  And in retail, and we do very well in our interiors and architecture, and we do creative direction and brand partnerships for, you know, many different brands, Airbnb, Chase, Lancome, like, all these, which are also, like, really fun. So there's many different arms of the business that are exciting, and I love all the opportunities.

• 40:14Emma Grede?

  How much do you care about the money piece of it? Was there ever a part of you that's like, I wanna build like a billion dollar something? Like, does that ever come into play in the way that you think?

• 40:24Speaker 03

  Yes, I still, like, I'm actually working on, uh, fragrance.

• 40:29Emma Grede?

  You are? Is that your billion dollar baby? I wanna smell like you. When I look at you, I'm like, I wanna smell like her. Definitely. That's gonna, that's, that's, that's it. That's the one.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  I'm so excited. So we're working on that now.

• 40:42Emma Grede?

  That's a whole different name for you.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  I've dreamed of doing this for so long, but you have to do things in sequence. Like, sequence is such an important word, like, you know, I could have done it, you know, ten years ago, twenty years ago. I, you know, have now so much more knowledge on, on so many different aspects of launching like, a new business. I did fashion, oh my god, I did fashion at one point, it was a disaster, it was like so stressful in my life. It was a very, like, kinda wrong road to go down, but you learn, and I, I just feel like it's like the right time.

• 41:19Emma Grede?

  I so appreciate you saying that because I really believe in this idea of chapters and having, like, you don't always get your opportunities at the time. Time that they'll necessarily work, but sometimes you've just got to shoot your shot and like do them anyway.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:33Emma Grede?

  But there is this kind of preconceived idea, especially for women in business, that if you mess something up, that it kind of messes everything up. Like you get your one chance and if you don't get it all perfectly right, then, you know, it all kind of goes up in a poof of smoke. When the reality is, we know for so many men, they make huge mistakes and lose lots of money and have a lot of failure and they just kind of like dust themselves off and go to the next thing. So I appreciate you saying that you've made mistakes and there were things in your business that didn't work out. What um did you learn from that situation, like with the the failure of fashion?

• 42:07Speaker 03

  Just that, like, you know, when it's time to like wrap it up. And I I so remember, like, a friend of ours who had a fashion business and very successful, sold it. I can remember being with my husband Brad, we were Earth Cafe. I so remember. He came in, he was like, you guys just have to stop. And I just knew, I was like, and I've been thinking about it. And so we just did it. And it was not fun because we had to let people go who I really loved and and they worked hard. We all worked really hard. And so it was just tough, but it was humbling. It was like one thing that you have to be able to, going back to what my mom said, like, you have to be able to rely on yourself

• 42:46Speaker 03

  in any circumstance. And now, like, I can be presented with anything that fits under my umbrella. I'm confident.

• 42:53Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  That anytime anyone can leave, like, I can figure it out.

• 43:07Emma Grede?

  I wonder if you have any advice for like young creatives about how they can both protect their ideas, but also like take feedback in, because it's such an important thing when you're coming up, that you hear feedback and that you use it in a in a useful way, but it can sometimes be really hard to hear it. How have you dealt with that?

• 43:26Speaker 03

  I think you just have to be open and be a good listener and just run everything through your filter.

• 43:31Emma Grede?

  Hmm.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  And like during the time when I was starting out and it was like, this is trending, like, this is what you should be doing. And yeah, I can like do that and follow the herd, but how are you going to stand out? Like you're not, like you have to follow like what is in your heart and what like you believe in. As a young designer, I think it's important to obviously know what's going on. Like I know what's going on in pop culture. I know what's going on, what's trending. You just have to like kind of take that. But also you have to have your own voice, like that's so important.

• 44:06Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  Or you're just going to be part of the crowd.

• 44:10Emma Grede?

  Your mother, obviously, which I love because you know, you've got these wonderful kids. And I wanted to ask you about having children and what part of. I always think that they, my kids somehow did something to me as it relates to my ambition. And I wonder if you had any like, you know, did your ambition sharpen? Did it soften? Like what happened to you as a businesswoman when you had kids?

• 44:36Speaker 03

  Well, growing up, like I wanted to just like be something, love what I do. Be my own boss, like that's what I wanted to do. And so I never felt like kids were in the equation, like I really.

• 44:51Emma Grede?

  Me too.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  I wanted.

• 44:53Emma Grede?

  You didn't grow up like really wanting children?

• 44:54Speaker 03

  No, no. And I knew like that I wanted to just, I was just ambitious.

• 45:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 03

  And I just didn't think that you could do both. And I, um, you know, met my husband and it was really important to him. And I was curious about it, like I'm, I'm just a curious person. And I was like, well, hmm, do I see myself with kids? Like maybe. And it was, I love my husband and it was like important to him. So I'm like, okay, let's, we'll have one. And I got pregnant unexpectedly because I probably would have been pushing it, continuing to push it.

• 45:31Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  We were engaged and I had Oliver, my first son, and like everything changed. It was like the most magical, beautiful, like how you can love something so much. And I'm so vulnerable with them and, and it's like the, the best thing. I have Oliver and Elliot, who are uh twenty one and twenty two, and I have Crosby who's three.

• 45:55Emma Grede?

  Love the gap.

• 45:56Speaker 03

  The gap's amazing.

• 45:57Emma Grede?

  What was going on there babe?

• 45:58Speaker 03

  Same husband.

• 46:00Emma Grede?

  Love, love that.

• 46:02Emma Grede?

  Just a bit of a gap. You were busy, I'm imagining.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  It is the best thing in the world. And so having um my family, you know, and my husband, I take them on my journey with me. I take them everywhere. I go to museums, like, trust me, they were like, I don't want to go, like, this and that. And I'm like, no, like, like, and it brought me back to my mom. I was educating my eye, even though, like, you know, you don't know what's going on, you're still educating your eye.

• 46:28Emma Grede?

  You're taking it in.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  You're taking it in. We travel together as a family. I I include them in like everything I do. Having my family uh involved and it helps that my husband and I, we have separate businesses. But like we help each other. So there's like a great kind of family interest in like everything we do.

• 46:49Emma Grede?

  So there's two entrepreneurs in your house?

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 46:52Emma Grede?

  That's amazing.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:53Emma Grede?

  So as your business is accelerating.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  And you work with your husband too. I listen to your podcast.

• 46:57Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Where.

• 46:58Emma Grede?

  Very similar story, actually.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  I was really like, like, he's great, like you guys, like great energy and it's fun, but it's it's definitely challenging.

• 47:07Emma Grede?

  It's fun and it's challenging. And we had a similar situation that having kids was very, very important to me and to him, I should say. And I was like, oh, okay, like, you know, I've got to just kick the can down the road. And then I had a kid and I was like, oh, my God, the best things ever happened to me. Um but it's interesting. I wanted to ask you, as your career was accelerating, like what parts of motherhood were like the most challenging for you?

• 47:34Speaker 03

  Was probably during that time, I would say uh when my business is really growing is I would work on the weekends a little and they would come to the studio, they would paint and do different things. But you know, just the the amount of work that it takes to be your, you know, to be a founder and have your own business and really wanting to push. And obviously, I missed like certain things. But one thing I did is like I was so focused on work and family and it was very focused. Like, I'm at home. I didn't go out at night, uh, I didn't go to parties, I was home with my kids.

• 48:18Speaker 03

  And um, that's one thing that I made the conscious decision. And like people are like, you never go out, like you're never at these like things for work. And it's like, well, I have a family and like, that's like the most important

• 48:30Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  element of my life, family comes first always.

• 48:34Emma Grede?

  But that was your trade off.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  That was my trade off.

• 48:36Emma Grede?

  And the family and then there ends up being very little for social and friends and you know, other stuff.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. So you have to, you have to give, you can definitely do both. I think I was, I'm an amazing mom. I have an incredible relationship with my kids and I'm there for them like, you know, you can have both. You just have to know how to manage your time.

• 48:56Emma Grede?

  Yeah. Do you think the motherhood has changed anything in the way that you lead or the way that you think about building your business?

• 49:03Speaker 03

  As a mother, I would say just especially like with the junior team, like just more like compassionate and more communicative and, and very, you know, I try and be very warm, like I feel like I'm a warm person. And you know, really want to include our junior team at my studio. And just knowing like they're just starting out, you know, my, my older boys, they're just starting, you know, new businesses. You want to push them.

• 49:33Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 03

  I push them, I hold them to a high standard, like I hold myself, my husband and I both do. We hold, you know, our entire family to a high standard and, and it's how I operate at my studio as well.

• 49:46Emma Grede?

  Totally. I mean, I'm guessing that your kids are growing up with a very different life than you did in uh, Carolina.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:55Emma Grede?

  A little bit different.

• 49:56Speaker 03

  So different, like so different. But they see, and that was something that we really had to, you know, just make sure like they had jobs. They, you know, you say no, like we were strict parents and they see how hard Brad and I work for what we have. And that obviously always like sets a good example. And I think including them, really giving them visibility to what we're doing. And they see that we're happy.

• 50:24Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 50:24Speaker 03

  They see that we're happy in our career and like, that's what I want for them to do what they absolutely love. It's so important because you're, to succeed, you have to work 24/7 and have that grit and determination and um, passion.

• 50:41Emma Grede?

  I love that you say that because I read somewhere that you've kind of like reframed this idea of balance as integration rather than separation. And when I read that, I was like, does she mean with the family? I wonder if like, how does that show up like in the way that you structure your days and you you have your family and your business? What did you mean by that?

• 51:00Speaker 03

  Well, just in terms of like, I I get up super early in the morning so I can work out. Like four thirty, five, because I like to have like time. It's the only time I have to myself. And I have to answer the emails that I didn't get to during the day. And then I work out and I always have woken up my kids every morning and spend time with them in the morning and drive them to school. And they would come to my office. I mean, they still, Crazzy comes to my office, you know, in the middle of the day on his way home from preschool. And, you know, he sees, he sees what's like going on and and happening. And and then I'm at home. I go home and I, you know, in the car, I'm still on calls and like doing everything I have to do. And I get home and have dinner and and I'm focused

• 51:45Speaker 03

  and hang out, you know, with my family, my husband and and the kids. And then when, you know, they go to sleep, I put them to bed and and I go back to work for a little bit.

• 52:00Speaker 07

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• 52:43Speaker 07

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• 53:00Emma Grede?

  I want to hear the rest of the routine. If you're up at 4:30 in the morning and you're waking, waking this little kid up and you're back home for dinner, like, what are the non-negotiables? Like, give me an idea of the things that you have to do to keep yourself sane and productive and like, just in the life that you want to live.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  Like, you want to hear all the details?

• 53:19Emma Grede?

  I want to know the nitty gritty. What you got? Like, yeah, give it to me.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  I mean, so I get up, I look at my Oura ring. I get up very early, look at my Oura ring, I go, I do my, my red light cap. And.

• 53:34Emma Grede?

  How good is the red light?

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's so good. I know, I was just told today I have a lot more new growth.

• 53:39Emma Grede?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every time I go to the hairdressers, I'm like, do I have new growth? I think they just tell me now just to shut me up.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  And then I, I go downstairs and I make my triple macchiato. And I go through like emails like that. I want to make sure I get back to, you know, everyone. And then I go to the gym. Like, that is a non-negotiable. I work out every single day, twice a day. Yesterday at three.

• 54:06Emma Grede?

  Shut up, sorry.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  Yesterday at three.

• 54:08Emma Grede?

  No, you don't, you psycho. You work out every single, seven days a week, twice a week, twice a day.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  So I'll do, like, I have a weight, you know, trainer who we lift like really heavy weights.

• 54:19Emma Grede?

  Hold, hold, hold, hold, hold. You, you work out every single day, twice a day. And sometimes three times.

• 54:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yesterday was unusual. Like, on the weekends sometimes, because I play paddle. And I schedule like a meeting in the morning, I work out super early.

• 54:37Emma Grede?

  What time?

• 54:37Speaker 03

  And then I do my sauna. Like, it's like 5:30.

• 54:40Emma Grede?

  Oh, my God, she's like the longevity queen. You're showing me up. I thought this was me. All right, wait a minute. She's up, she's emailing, triple macchiato, the red light cap's on, she's getting in her workout kit, you're doing a workout. Sauna after or before?

• 54:54Speaker 03

  And the workouts at home.

• 54:56Emma Grede?

  The workouts at home, yeah, you don't have time to be going to a gym.

• 54:59Speaker 03

  Because I for twenty years went to Barry's Bootcamp, like every single day. But now it's like amazing being at home. And then I do my workout and then I go directly to the sauna.

• 55:09Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 55:09Speaker 03

  Do my sauna.

• 55:10Emma Grede?

  How long?

• 55:11Speaker 03

  Do my, um, I do twenty minutes.

• 55:13Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, twenty minutes. And then I do shower.

• 55:15Emma Grede?

  Is it a wood sauna or is it an infrared sauna? I need to know.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  No, it's just hot sauna, coals.

• 55:19Emma Grede?

  Coals, okay.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  And then, and then I take a, um, a like really cold shower, which is like so amazing. You just feel, I, we have the cold plunge, but like, I don't know. I hear it's not great for females.

• 55:32Emma Grede?

  I know, I'm, I'm a little on the fence, like, I can do it like around my cycle, but like, there's certain times when that shit, I'm just not getting it.

• 55:39Speaker 03

  It's a lot. It's a lot. But I do the cold shower, I feel great. Then I go get Crosby. And then I read books to him, we hang out, like have quick breakfast. And then he gets ready, like we have amazing nanny who helps. I get ready for work, like super fast, shower, like.

• 55:56Emma Grede?

  You're putting that whole look together super fast.

• 55:58Speaker 03

  Have my green juice, like I have my green juice, uh, and then go downstairs.

• 56:02Emma Grede?

  Who's getting your coat? Wait a minute, you have to go back for me because you've always got a look on. It's not like you put jeans and a T-shirt on. You're just like throwing something together or you've got your outfits like ready in your head.

• 56:12Speaker 03

  No, like sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

• 56:15Emma Grede?

  I mean, I like it. I, I always think like they, even if they don't work, they kind of work because you're you and it's like, oh, it's a weird like furry shoe. It just like kind of happens. Okay, fine. Outfits on, taking the kid to school.

• 56:26Speaker 03

  I go to school and then as soon as I drop Crosby off and then I like, I'm on a call. Like just like on the call, work, Zoom call, like, I mean, I'm not watching, but I'm listening. Zoom call and then go to the studio and then I'm like goes directly to a meeting. And it's like one after the next, like go to meeting, meeting, being, you know, you know.

• 56:47Emma Grede?

  Yeah, you're like back to back to back all day.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  And then it's like ten to one and then I leave. I'm going now to my, my second workout. I do my second workout and like it's a reset.

• 57:00Emma Grede?

  What's the difference between the first workout and the second workout?

• 57:02Speaker 03

  They're very, they're different.

• 57:03Emma Grede?

  Strength training one and then cardio in another?

• 57:06Speaker 03

  And then summer cardio, summer zone two, summer zone five and Pilates.

• 57:09Emma Grede?

  With a trainer or without a trainer?

• 57:11Speaker 03

  Uh, no, with a trainer. Some days I do myself. I do cardio by myself, but I do heavyweight training.

• 57:17Emma Grede?

  On a reformer or mat Pilates?

• 57:18Speaker 03

  No, on a reformer.

• 57:19Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  And then I'll go there and I started doing jump rope. Like I really wanna get good at jump roping. So I started jump roping and like doing like tricks. Cause it's really good for your body. And then I do like farmer's walks there and then we do regular Pilates. So I do all that. And then she's my Pilates instructor, super close to the studio. So then I go back to the studio and like eat super fast. Yeah, in a meeting.

• 57:42Emma Grede?

  What are you eating?

• 57:42Speaker 03

  And then like usually it's salmon and a green salad.

• 57:45Emma Grede?

  Okay, she's disciplined this one. Okay, got it. So salmon and green salad.

• 57:48Speaker 03

  And I eat like I'm so laser focused on eating healthy and like knowing what I put in my body.

• 57:54Emma Grede?

  I think it shows.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  I forgot about the smoothie.

• 57:56Emma Grede?

  Oh, you have a smoothie, a protein smoothie?

• 57:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, protein smoothie on the way to taking Crosby to school. I have like the smoothie and the macchiato.

• 58:03Emma Grede?

  Yeah, because you need this energy. Otherwise it's like you would just fall apart.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 58:07Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 58:08Speaker 03

  And I'm nuts. I have like snacks and things like I'll have to, and I drink a lot of water.

• 58:11Emma Grede?

  Is there like some, when you're doing the meetings, do you have rules in work? Like some kind of meeting hygiene or a time? Like how does it work in the studio? Or are you just more like free and easy?

• 58:22Speaker 03

  No, just free and easy.

• 58:23Emma Grede?

  Free and easy?

• 58:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:24Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 58:25Speaker 03

  So free and easy.

• 58:25Emma Grede?

  Free and easy. And then like home dinner, you must like, what time do you go to bed?

• 58:30Speaker 03

  And then I go to bed, actually I go to bed at like nine thirty.

• 58:34Emma Grede?

  LA-ish?

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 58:36Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 58:36Speaker 03

  I go, and especially like after just everything that I've done, like and then like every, we read Crosby and I'm just like also like getting tired.

• 58:44Emma Grede?

  Okay. Now I've got your whole routine down. That was a very important part of this interview and I'm extremely happy about it. We're gonna shift here gear a little bit. So I wanna understand like what matters to you most. Like when you start to think about your legacy and, and almost like the body of work that you've created. What becomes most important to you to be able to like kind of look back on?

• 59:06Speaker 03

  For my legacy, I would say that I like created. Great and beautiful environments that people have had memories in and that made them feel good and made them feel happy because that's what I want to do is I want people to feel good and nurtured in their spaces and represent them. Also, like we, you know, design hotels and, you know, I have people coming up to me like, oh, my God, like, I was at your hotel and I got married, I engaged, I had a party and I just had like such an incredible weekend and it was such an amazing memory for me. And that is so meaningful. Like, I love hearing that. And then we design a lot of product and designing product that people can pass

• 59:48Speaker 03

  down to, you know, their, uh, their kids and just continue to use and having these pieces in the world are like really, um, uh, you know, just mean a lot.

• 1:00:00Emma Grede?

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What are you most intentional about preserving in both kind of the brand and the business as you continue to evolve?

• 1:00:10Speaker 03

  To just continue to get better and, um, to continue to learn and to, um, produce like really great designs and, and grow. Like, I want to evolve. Like, I, I really want to, I see myself doing this until I'm a hundred. Hopefully, all this shit's gonna pay off in my routine. And, uh, you know, I just,

• 1:00:40Emma Grede?

  Listen, if it ain't paying off for you, it's not gonna pay off for any of us. I hope it works out.

• 1:00:47Speaker 03

  And you see, like, I was just with Martha Stewart and it's like, she's telling about her day. And I'm just like, shit. Like, she is such an inspiration.

• 1:00:57Emma Grede?

  First of all, beyond, I couldn't, I couldn't agree more. But she packs it in. Like, she really does.

• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  Like, she's such an inspiration. And when you, you know, love what you do, like, you want to just do it till the end.

• 1:01:13Emma Grede?

  Totally. I really understand that. What projects are you like most excited about now?

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  Um, designing the torch and For the L A twenty eight Olympics.

• 1:01:22Emma Grede?

  First of all, we need you to do that.

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  There's never been a female.

• 1:01:27Emma Grede?

  What?

• 1:01:27Speaker 03

  Yes, there's never been a female.

• 1:01:29Emma Grede?

  Oh, is there like a voting booth or something? I don't know. We need that to happen. I'll tell them, I'll tell those, I'll tell my friends over at Team USA or I don't know, like some sporty thing that I do.

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  But I so want to do it, I know.

• 1:01:42Emma Grede?

  First of all, we need you to do it. There's never been a woman?

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:01:46Emma Grede?

  No.

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  And it's like, I'm like synonymous with, you know, design and Los Angeles and, and I'm so well suited for it.

• 1:01:54Emma Grede?

  No, if not you, then who? I need you to do that. I think that that would be so major.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  I would be so excited.

• 1:01:59Emma Grede?

  Yeah, that's, that's a pretty kind of like, you know, big.

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  I know, that's so, yeah.

• 1:02:05Emma Grede?

  I just have a few more questions left for you. These ones are rapid fire.

• 1:02:09Speaker 03

  Oh, Lord.

• 1:02:10Emma Grede?

  Don't worry, I'm crap at rapid fire. I'll just like go on for fifteen minutes. So the team know when I say rapid fire, it means nothing. Um, okay. What is one interior decorating rule that applies to every room in the house?

• 1:02:24Speaker 03

  Do not buy all your furniture in one place.

• 1:02:26Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love that one. Is that like the, like the basic bitch of, um, of interior design?

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  Yes, because it's about curation. It's about also like you want things to surround yourself from travels and things that take time to curate your, your, everything that you're surrounding yourself with, because then it's more soulful and it's meaningful.

• 1:02:47Emma Grede?

  Damn right. What is something that you used to aspire to that you no longer aspire to?

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  It's tough, but it's perfectionism.

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  Like I'm working very hard. My husband's like, just get it done and get it out there. Like you can't make it perfect. And you can't, you have to set things free and you like tweak it and massage it, you know, as it's been set free.

• 1:03:10Emma Grede?

  Fair. What's the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night? I think I know.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  The first thing, or a ring, I gotta get my sleep score and then.

• 1:03:21Emma Grede?

  Does it affect your day if you have a bad sleep score?

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  Like you feel it, like it's so right, like you do feel it.

• 1:03:27Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  But I just like forge through, I just do it. And then the last thing I do is I kiss my husband. Like we always like, even if we're pissed off at each other, like you still kiss.

• 1:03:38Emma Grede?

  Damn right. What is a book that's changed your life?

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  The book that changed my life is a book by Rick Rubin, The Creative Act. And like I design from a place of creativity, emotion and things that feel so, just so natural. And, and I'm not connected, like I can envision something visually in my brain. And like, it's not like I'm thinking philosophically about how I got to the solution of a design problem. And so it really helped me to think a little deeper.

• 1:04:12Emma Grede?

  I love that. All right, my last question for you, Kelly. What are you aspiring to right now in your life?

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  I'm aspiring to just continue to learn and to inspire people along the way. And being just a great mom and just myself, I guess.

• 1:04:37Emma Grede?

  I love that, just yourself. There she is, one of one. Kelly, thank you so much. I love this, amazing.

• 1:04:42Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:04:47Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. You'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Executive producer, Ashley McShan. Derek Brown. And me. Our executive producers from Odyssey, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren Legrosso. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music. By Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.

• 1:05:31Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Shaun Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelt G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with emagreed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.