How to Turn Rejection into Your Biggest Advantage (Laney Crowell)

Today on Aspire, Emma sits down with Laney Crowell, founder and CEO of Saie – a brand that consistently has seven products ranked in the top ten at Sephora. Emma and Laney talk about what it really took to build Saie from scratch: the mindset shifts, the operational discipline, the hiring decisions, and the resilience required to scale without a traditional founder background. In this episode, Laney shares: Why rejection isn’t personal and how to use it as fuel What raising capital as a woman actually requires The importance of reference checks and hiring intentionally Why refining consistently beats rushing growth The importance of building a community alongside the brand The rewards and challenges of building a business as a new mother This episode is for anyone who feels “not qualified enough” or “not ready yet” and is building anyway. If this conversation resonated, leave a comment and subscribe for more honest conversations with founders, leaders, and builders on Aspire.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  Today on Aspire, I'm sitting down with Laney Crowell, founder and CEO of one of my favourite beauty brands, Say. Now, I know that so many of you dream of starting your own businesses. And so I want to bring you founders that will share their journey with honesty and with detail. Now Laney has been disrupting clean beauty since Say's launching in 2019. And today, they have seven products in the top 10 at Sephora. So real measurable success. But Laney didn't get there by playing it safe. And so we discussed what she actually did to get this business launched. In this episode, we're going to go beyond the wins and talk about the work behind the results. How she raised financing, how she thinks about growth,

• 0:52Emma Grede?

  and how she makes hard decisions today without a roadmap. It's an honest look at what it takes to build something from scratch and to scale it successfully while staying true to your vision all along the way. I'm really excited for you to tune in. And while you're here, do me a favour and like and subscribe, please.

• 1:13Speaker 01

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• 1:58Speaker 01

  For the work they want to get right. And these businesses are helping Anthropic shape what comes next. Build your business with support from Claude at claude.ai/odyssey.

• 2:14Emma Grede?

  Lainey, welcome to Aspire.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

• 2:17Emma Grede?

  I am so happy to have you here. I've got so many questions for you. Didn't even need to do research for this one. I was like, I just know. I know everything I want to ask her.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Let's go, because I have so much to talk about.

• 2:26Emma Grede?

  I love it. It's so good. So there's so much to talk about, but let's really try and start at the beginning. Because I think before you built, say, you built something that so few people have, right? You built this element of trust through your community as an editor with The Moment.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41Emma Grede?

  And I really wanted to ask you, like, how important do you think the groundwork that you laid in the beauty industry was before you started the business?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Well, I think it was really what I learned more than anything. Yes, it was amazing. I had this great community, funny story. One of the community members actually is now one of my merchants at Sephora.

• 3:00Emma Grede?

  Love that.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  She was following along the whole time, but it was the best part about that was that I knew every brand. I knew the entire landscape, inside and out.

• 3:10Emma Grede?

  And when you say you knew the entire landscape, like as an editor, you were looking at it through the lens of a consumer. Like, had you gone in and started to understand the business, where the white space was? Like, give me an idea of what you were trying to find out.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  But I wasn't looking at it like that. I was looking at it from an other point of view of like, okay, well, what are all the skincare brands? What are all the hair care brands? And so then when it was, when I had that aha moment of like, oh, there's no clean beauty brands or there's just a handful of color. I knew every brand. I knew their price point. I knew everything about them.

• 3:42Emma Grede?

  And you thought, I can do this better. Like, what was the feeling?

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Well, I was interviewing a lot of founders for my blog and I would interview them.

• 3:49Emma Grede?

  This feels like a really long time ago now that you say for my blog.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  I know. It was. It was. It was such a long time ago.

• 3:56Emma Grede?

  How long ago was it?

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, that was like nine years ago now.

• 3:59Emma Grede?

  Wow, nine years ago.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:01Emma Grede?

  So nine years ago, you're sitting there blogging, you're interviewing all of these founders.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Clean beauty wasn't even really a thing. It was so nascent. I remember interviewing these founders and they would tell me their stories and it was like, oh, well, I was a painter or I was just a mom or I was doing this or that. And I was like, oh, well. I have a lot of beauty experience.

• 4:20Emma Grede?

  You have a lot of beauty experience. But you also have like an amazing level of fearlessness because I think when you look at your career, you know, going from the Lord of Days, I heard that you like pitched an editor on the street to get an internship. Where's that fearlessness come from, do you think?

• 4:36Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, I moved around my whole life. My mom was in the Foreign Service.

• 4:40Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  And my parents were very much always like, you can do anything. It doesn't matter if you're the best at it. And I'm not, I'm not the best at things, but I can do anything.

• 4:51Emma Grede?

  And why do you say you can do anything? Like, what's given you that belief?

• 4:56Speaker 02

  I think going through the actions, like trying things and trying to do, I mean, I moved to New York, I didn't know anybody. So that's where that happened. I read every single magazine front to back every month. I decided, I was like, well, I should go do what I love. I love reading magazines. I moved to New York, I didn't know a soul. But when I was, ran into Kim France on the Fifth Avenue, I recognized her because I read the editor letter every month. And so I walked up to her and I said, um, Ms. France, I, I really would love to work in magazines. Do you have any advice for me? She emailed me back and she said, you have what it takes because you were fearless.

• 5:34Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 5:35Emma Grede?

  Right there. And that's how you got the internship? That is absolutely crazy.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  But I think a lot about resilience because I think that is my superpower, that I'm like just not afraid of hard things. And I can take a really high pain tolerance. I can take those tough moments. And I think about, well, how did that happen? And yes, I think moving around, having to be the new kid in school all the time, I think that definitely contributed to it. But yeah, my parents expected me to do hard things.

• 6:01Emma Grede?

  Say more about that because resilience is something that I talk about all the time because I feel like part of what I do every day is just take a lot of no's, like a lot of knockbacks. Like, somebody is always telling me why something's not going to work out. So I'd love you just to speak a little bit more to how resilience shows up in your day now.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, I always say let the no's fuel you. I had a call the other day and someone said, you know, this guy that we work with now, he, you asked him to invest and he says every day it's his biggest regret. And I said, man, I said, you know what the irony is? His no is what made me here today. Every no I get, I just let it fuel me.

• 6:43Emma Grede?

  No, and that's, I, I think it's a great lesson because the truth is, I mean, it's full of no's and that's something that I want to talk to you a bit about today.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  So many no's.

• 6:52Emma Grede?

  So many no's.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  A lot of no's is an understatement.

• 6:55Emma Grede?

  We're going to count all through them. That's what this podcast is. It's like the hundred ways you heard no.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  We don't have enough time.

• 7:00Emma Grede?

  There's not enough time in the world. So let's go just through this. So it's like you, you have your job at Lorder, you have an internship, you have a job at Lorder, you then start your own newsletter. Through that, the realization comes that the beauty or the clean beauty space is ripe for disruption.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 7:15Emma Grede?

  What do you do? Like, how do you even go, all right, I'm, I'm an editor and I'm going to start something? Just like talk me through that part.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  So I had worked in beauty and I'd been in the social side. So I came to Lorder to help them start all their social channels. I started their influencer marketing. I started their editorial and that was all before like any of those were called those things. Influencers weren't even called influencers then. They were called bloggers. And I left because I, I am the ultimate consumer. I am so clear on what the consumer wants because I'm her. And I left being like, I just don't feel like beauty is speaking to me. I, I have really sensitive acne prone skin. And I, my aha moment was I realized my makeup was making me break out. And I was like, wait a minute, you're telling me that this piece of like luxury makeup

• 8:05Speaker 02

  that I spent my hard earned money on is making my skin worse? I felt so deceived. For me, that's like the ultimate betrayal as a customer. And I left with this, this big idea, like beauty should be better, really across the board and like a 360 degree point of view. And I I didn't think that I was a beauty founder. Like, people think I left Lauder to start a brand. That's not true at all. I had to have expanders come into my life to show me like, oh, if they can do it, I can do it.

• 8:35Emma Grede?

  What parts felt unfamiliar or uncomfortable for you? Because I think there'll be so many people listening that go, I am not XX whatever thing that they want to be. So in that sentence-

• 8:46Speaker 02

  I wasn't anything. I wasn't-

• 8:48Emma Grede?

  You weren't anything, that's how you felt?

• 8:49Speaker 02

  I'm not a makeup artist. I'm not a product developer. I'm not an operations person. I don't know supply chain. I'm not a finance person.

• 8:57Emma Grede?

  So every bit.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:58Emma Grede?

  You felt uncomfortable and unfamiliar in every little part?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  But I'm, I love learning. So I love learning every single part of it.

• 9:05Emma Grede?

  So who were the people that you leaned on in the beginning for guidance? And to kind of get you, I guess, you know, up and started and going?

• 9:14Speaker 02

  I mean, honestly, a big part of it was I had met all these founders. And they had told me what, you know, but their experience was like. And I was like, oh, if they can do it, I can do it.

• 9:22Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  And then there was the opportunity piece where I was like, okay, wow. Like, this is a huge opportunity. And I called a product developer and I said, do you think it's possible to make really clean products that are great for your skin, that even make your skin better? That perform? Because who wants makeup that doesn't perform? And when she said to me, a hundred percent it's possible, that's when I said, okay, let's go. And I just put, I just put one foot after the next. And that's why I always, to me, I think anyone can do anything.

• 9:52Emma Grede?

  So talk me through that part. What did it look like putting one foot in front of the next at that point? Right, so it's like you have your reputation. What's the first thing that you did to get Say off the ground?

• 10:03Speaker 02

  I started calling people. I called my dad. I said, you are a lawyer? Can I speak to a lawyer? I called my friend who I know had raised money in a completely different sector. And I said, what does it even mean to raise money? I didn't even know what any of it was. I had to learn that whole language.

• 10:20Emma Grede?

  But there was a need for you to raise money at the gate?

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I always wanted to be big.

• 10:24Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  That was very clear to me. I didn't start Say to be a small brand.

• 10:28Emma Grede?

  Got it. And so you called, you called a lawyer, you called a friend who could talk you through-

• 10:31Speaker 02

  I called a lot of friends. I said, I, I don't know why the number is seventy, but I always say, talk to seventy people. And so I have an Excel sheet and I just start putting in the, the name, the number, when I spoke to them and the notes they had. And then I always say to the person, can you introduce me to one more person?

• 10:48Emma Grede?

  That is amazing advice. Let's dig into that a little bit because I always think that one person leads you to your next thing, but it doesn't stop there, right? You need to keep going and keep digging, especially when you're a total outsider. And I really felt like that when I started Good American. It's like, I knew the marketing piece, but I had no idea how to get a garment made. And you found that like, the fabric person introduced you to the wash person, introduced you to the factory person, and so on, and so on, and so on. So it was a little bit like that.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  You just keep going.

• 11:17Emma Grede?

  You were just much more organized than I was, because you had an Excel sheet. I just had my dyslexic brain running like circles around me.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  Let's be clear, I'm extremely dyslexic as well. We have that in common. I think, I think that's actually one of our superpowers.

• 11:28Emma Grede?

  It's a superpower, right?

• 11:29Speaker 02

  But I don't even do Excel. I do Google Sheets.

• 11:31Emma Grede?

  Google Sheets. That's Google Sheets. I still don't know even how to find my Google Sheets. But that's, this is not about me. All right. So this is where I want, you know, the people at home, this is the moment to take out your pens, because I want to talk about raising the money, because you've spoken very openly about how difficult it was to raise money. But I want you to, I want to understand, like, did you have a solid plan? Like, how laid out was it? Did you, how did you figure out what you would even need?

• 12:00Speaker 02

  So I, I had called someone that I knew who had worked in venture, and she helped me put together my pitch deck. So I had that. And every single meeting afterwards, I would tweak it. So with every note that I got, I would tweak, make a learning or something to like, refine, refine, refine. And again, I started with, here are a fund I've heard of. The first one on my list was Unilever Ventures, because I knew that they were mission-aligned with my mission. They are so passionate about sustainability and the planet, and I wanted like-minded investors. The second person was Gwyneth Paltrow. Again, no idea how I was going to get to any of these people. And I think there is power in writing things

• 12:42Speaker 02

  down. Because even though I had no idea how I was going to get to either of those two, they're now my investors.

• 12:47Emma Grede?

  That's crazy. So actually, you had them on your list of targets?

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Number one and number two.

• 12:52Emma Grede?

  So how did you get to them?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Just a lot. I mean, Unilever Ventures, I got invited to a brunch in L.A. because of the woman that does my brows. And she said, you should come to this brunch as founders and investors.

• 13:07Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  And I remember telling my husband, I'm gonna go to L.A. for this. And he said, you're going to L.A. for a brunch? And I was like, I don't know. My gut just tells me I should go. And when I went, someone there said, I'm gonna introduce you to Brandon. He's now one of my investors, one of my first investors, Brandon Schoenfeld. And he said, on the first call, he said, I'm in. And he said, I'm gonna introduce you to Unilever Ventures. And it was like the Twilight Zone.

• 13:31Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  I was like, I, my gut literally drove me to this moment.

• 13:35Emma Grede?

  That's wild.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  And my investor, Rachel, at Unilever Ventures, also got it from the moment we met.

• 13:40Emma Grede?

  From the get go.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:41Emma Grede?

  And I think there's something about that when people immediately feel it, like you know they're your people, when you don't have to, you know, really like dig in and over explain. It's like, they understand the space, they understand what you're saying. There's an element of belief in what you're doing already. And I'm interested, just because you seem like somebody who kind of goes around learning and leveraging, like everywhere you are. How do you distinguish between what is useful information and what is just someone's opinion? Because I've been in those meetings before when people have said, actually, I don't think that, I think this. But I felt somewhere like deep conviction inside me. So how did you decipher what was useful information for you to then like impact your pitch deck, as an example?

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Learnings, I mean, there was one piece of advice I got over and over again was that I should have a co-founder.

• 14:28Emma Grede?

  Hmm.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  And I knew that I should not have a co-founder. Yeah, I was like, I, from, that was not a question for me. I was like, I like working by myself. I'm super clear on my vision. I just actually didn't really speak to those people again when that was their advice.

• 14:42Emma Grede?

  That's a bold move. Why were they telling you you needed a co-founder?

• 14:47Speaker 02

  I was a first time founder.

• 14:48Emma Grede?

  Like, someone to run the business for you?

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:51Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Someone to run the business, someone who had done it before.

• 14:55Emma Grede?

  I mean, fair, fair point, right?

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Totally fair.

• 14:57Emma Grede?

  I mean, there's a, there's a part of me that goes, as a first time founder, you could well have been like, yeah, I definitely need that person. But you had the conviction to know you could do it yourself.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  I also had listened to a lot, a lot of How I Built This. And if you listen to that podcast, there's very few co-founders that are still together.

• 15:14Emma Grede?

  That is absolutely true.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  It's hard to work with people on an even playing field where both of your ideas have equal weight. I think it's a lot easier to have just a clear vision. At least that's, that was just kind of what my gut told me.

• 15:27Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I think you're right about that. I also think that if it's the reason to find a co-founder is to fill in for your blind spots.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:34Emma Grede?

  That's different because you can hire those people, right? Like, so I, I think that having a co-founder and having senior people that sit beside you in your business to do something that you're not proficient in, two totally different things.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Totally different.

• 15:48Emma Grede?

  Like a co-founder is a co-founder.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  And I have partners in my business who are like my, they're my ride or dies.

• 15:54Emma Grede?

  Damn right. So tell me, when we think about like the credibility that you'd built in beauty, how much of that like really opened doors and, and how much of it like made you fall short? Like, I wonder if there were things that you thought you knew that maybe, you know, weren't so once you got down to actually running a business?

• 16:12Speaker 02

  I think the piece that I should have known more about was the financial side.

• 16:16Emma Grede?

  Hmm.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  I should have known more about margins. I should have known more about the almost more technical sides. I mean, I learned that when I was, the early days, like I was running the P and L, I was doing all that. But then I would, I brought in a fractional CFO and that was kind of a disaster. And that part I was really not ready for. But now we have an incredible CFO.

• 16:37Emma Grede?

  Thank goodness for the CFOs.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:38Emma Grede?

  When you consider the listeners here, first time founders, people that are really trying to get a business off the ground, what do you wish you'd have known about fundraising from the very beginning?

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Well, I think that you're going to get a lot of no's and that that's like totally normal, especially if you're a woman. I mean, 4% of VC dollars go to women. If you take out Mira, it's like 2.9% go, go to women.

• 17:02Emma Grede?

  I love that it's like one woman.

• 17:06Emma Grede?

  Good for her, by the way.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Good for her.

• 17:07Emma Grede?

  Good for her. Yeah, but but actually to right size the assumption, it ends up being just sub three percent.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 17:14Emma Grede?

  How much do you think that women or do you believe that women have any responsibility to pay for that?

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Should we be investing in brands?

• 17:22Emma Grede?

  Should we be investing in brands and do you think that women, for whatever reason, their pitches might fall short? Like, I'm I'm wondering if you have any theory or thought around why women get so little, such a tiny, tiny piece of the pie?

• 17:37Speaker 02

  I don't think that people think women can run businesses. I think there's like this really just pervasive thought that men are more comfortable running things. I saw this fantastic TikTok the other day that was like, they can't run Thanksgiving dinner. Why do we feel like they should be running anything?

• 17:57Emma Grede?

  Fair.

• 17:59Emma Grede?

  Fair. I mean, running a business is a little like Thanksgiving, there's a lot of shit happening at once. It's really true. All right, so talk to me about the decisions that you've made when it comes to operating your business. Because, say, is, you know, to me, it's so clear what you're doing. It has such a clear point of view.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:17Emma Grede?

  And I imagine that there are a lot of non-negotiable decisions that you've had to put in place in order to live up to the promise that you set out in the beginning and the and the space that you know had to be filled. So what decisions did you make that have dictated the way it's say would operate?

• 18:33Speaker 02

  So we are really clear north star from day one. We want to make products that people love, that are great for their skin and even make their skin better. We want that to build with our community. We want to do right by our planet and we want to have fun. And so all of our-

• 18:50Emma Grede?

  Are you having fun?

• 18:51Speaker 02

  I'm having the best time and I think it shows up in everything that we do.

• 18:55Emma Grede?

  I agree.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  I think that it makes our brand magnetic. I think it helps us retain talent. I think that it even dictates like you're going to make great products if you're having a great time doing it. It's a value that I think is so important.

• 19:07Emma Grede?

  I love that for you because I feel like inevitably running a business is so hard that there has to be some element in it that's like, you know, when making cosmetics, like it needs to be fun. Like, and I feel like that comes through so much in all of your communications, in your emails, the way you guys write. Like, to me, it's very visible that you're having a great time building this best in class brand.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  I didn't start a brand to not want to go to work. And like, right, running, starting a business is so hard.

• 19:34Emma Grede?

  So much work.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  We launched, say, four months before COVID.

• 19:37Emma Grede?

  Oof.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  I mean, it's been like, you know, a ride.

• 19:40Emma Grede?

  I mean, let's talk about the work a little bit because I'm, I'm dying to talk to you about your first hires. But just in terms of you and how much you work, can you give, just give me an idea of like, what a week or a day looks like for you? How much are you actually working?

• 19:55Speaker 02

  People always say they've never met anyone who works as hard as me, which probably means they probably haven't met you. But I love to work. I grind.

• 20:03Emma Grede?

  You grind. You're in the office.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  I work from home, probably three days a week.

• 20:08Emma Grede?

  Got it.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  And then I go into New York City because I live out in the Hamptons.

• 20:10Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  I go three, two days a week into the office, or I'm in LA, or I'm in Dubai, like I was last week. I love being with my team, but my, the, my office is like my happy place. I get so excited when I'm there.

• 20:23Emma Grede?

  Do you work on the evenings?

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:25Emma Grede?

  Do you work on the weekends?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Right after the kids go to bed, I go back to work on my phone. On the weekends, I'll check in. But, you know, I have two little kids, so I really try to be present with them when I'm with them.

• 20:43Speaker 03

  Do you ever wish you could ask nosey questions about people's money?

• 20:46Speaker 04

  I have $729.71 in my bank account. We bought, you know, a 1.3 million dollar house on a $350,000 income.

• 20:54Speaker 03

  On the podcast, What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it.

• 21:01Speaker 05

  I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 21:14Emma Grede?

  The Start With Yourself tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sale now at emigre.com.

• 21:24Emma Grede?

  Let's just go back to the business a little bit and talk about how you've built this team. I read somewhere that your first hire was somebody in product development. How important has that been to your success? Because when I think about your product, I think about innovation. I think about product that actually works. Like when you sit here and say, you know, we make product that actually makes your skin better. I'm like, yes, you do. Like, I turned to say when I was like, my makeup is making me spotty. And I said to my, you know, makeup artist, and she was like, oh, we're going to switch a bunch of stuff. And it really, really works. You know this because I literally, the minute I met you, I was like, oh, my God, I'm obsessed. Do you think that's the reason your products are so good?

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. So someone had told me, going back to advice that I didn't listen to, someone said, do not hire product developer. The CMs have product developers. And I said, but if my number one north star is to have incredible formulas, I have to have a product developer. And so I sold my stock at Estee Lauder and I used that money to hire a product developer that I had worked with before. And she, first of all, got the vision from day one. And we just started working on stuff. And she calls it the Olympics of product development because it's so hard to formulate our products. We have 2000 ingredients that we don't use. And a lot of those ingredients are, you know, dimethicone. That's a very common ingredient

• 22:49Speaker 02

  in makeup because it's a silicone. So it gives you that really beautiful texture, but it clogs your pores. You know, we are hyper, hyper diligent about what ingredients we don't use. And so to formulate, it takes a lot of time.

• 23:03Emma Grede?

  It takes a lot of time. And I'm assuming a lot of money. Is it like more expensive to develop, like when you're trying to be clean?

• 23:10Speaker 02

  No, because you don't pay until you're done with a formula. But our formulas are very expensive. Yeah.

• 23:18Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I mean, you've got to pay at some point, right? And so when you were building this company, product developer was first.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:24Emma Grede?

  Were you, was there any trepidation using your own money?

• 23:27Speaker 02

  I think people thought I was crazy.

• 23:28Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I mean, a lot of people would think taking, you know, a very valuable stock like Estee Lauder, selling it, were you sitting on a ton of money?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  No, I mean, it wasn't a lot of money.

• 23:38Emma Grede?

  It was, but tell me, like, was it like?

• 23:40Speaker 02

  I think it was thirty five thousand dollars.

• 23:42Emma Grede?

  But thirty five thousand dollars, it's like, you know, it's some money.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's some money. It was all I had.

• 23:46Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  So it was a lot. There was that.

• 23:50Emma Grede?

  It's like, it's the thirty five thousand that you had.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:52Emma Grede?

  And you, in your mind, you were like, this is going to be the start of something. You knew it.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  I knew it. I knew it. Julie Rice from SoulCycle talks about this. She says, it's like you get a call from the universe and you either decide to answer it or not. And I had that aha moment where I saw exactly what the brand was. My community told me, here's even the product you should start with. And I just was like, this is it. This is the moment I've been waiting for.

• 24:18Emma Grede?

  And you started with mascara, right?

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:20Emma Grede?

  Would you start with mascara if you had to do it all over?

• 24:23Speaker 02

  You know, maybe not, but only because it's the best mascara and it never got its moment to shine.

• 24:30Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 24:30Speaker 02

  It is, that's the product, well, one of the products that people come up to me and tell me, they're like, I'm never ever using another mascara.

• 24:37Emma Grede?

  Because, I mean, what's extraordinary about your brand is that you have seven of the top 10 products in Sephora at the moment.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  In each category, yeah.

• 24:45Emma Grede?

  I mean, that's crazy.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:47Emma Grede?

  I mean, there's definitely no other brand that are doing that because there's not enough in the top 10. That's crazy.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  We sell one piece of, say, every 4.5 seconds.

• 24:58Emma Grede?

  I know, I could concentrate all day. I'd be like, me, me again. Here I go again. So good. So good. I absolutely love it.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Because the formulas are so good. And that was the premise I knew. As a consumer, that's what it's about, right? It's about creating an incredible product that it doesn't matter that we are the most sustainable. That I am so proud of, but no one's going to buy anything because it's the most sustainable. It's not because we have the most fun TikTok. We do have the most fun TikTok, but that's just marketing. It has to always come back to product, in my opinion.

• 25:30Emma Grede?

  I love that you say that because I think marketing is such a distraction for people. Everybody believes like, you know, in the launch party and the social strategy. And it's like, at the end of the day, you need customers to repeat buy, right? Somebody has to love what you do and prefer it over the thing that sits next to it. Because you are in this like, hyper competitive market. When I go into Sephora, I literally feel a bit feverish. You know, I'm like, oh.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  There's a competitor.

• 26:00Emma Grede?

  Like, they're right there. You can't ignore them. How do you feel about the competition? Because since you launched, the landscape has really changed, right?

• 26:08Speaker 02

  It's totally changed. I don't know. I just can't, I can't think about it.

• 26:13Emma Grede?

  You can't think about it?

• 26:13Speaker 02

  What a distraction. What am I gonna do about it?

• 26:17Emma Grede?

  So you don't think about it at all?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  No, I put on blinders.

• 26:20Emma Grede?

  Really? You're not like looking over there and being like, develop that thing that they've got that's doing really well?

• 26:25Speaker 02

  No, because then what am I doing? I don't, that's not gonna do anything. I have to focus on my formulas. You know, we just launched the first setting spray ever to not have synthetic polymers in it.

• 26:35Emma Grede?

  Thank you.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Which is insane. It took us five years to create it. You know, if I was looking over here or over there, I wouldn't have been focused on that innovation, which I'm so proud of. I love that formula so much. And another founder once told me she doesn't even go to Sephora. Because it brings your vibration down. It brings your energy down. When you're looking all over the place, it's just a distraction, in my opinion.

• 26:55Emma Grede?

  I love that. And you have to so limit your distractions as a founder.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Right? We have so much to do.

• 26:59Emma Grede?

  You have so much to do. It's kind of amazing. I wonder how you've kept the trust of the community that you came into this brand building. Like, how have you bought them on a journey? Because arguably, like, you're a huge brand now. I've read, I think you guys have got to a hundred million, but that was a couple of years ago. I'm assuming the growth is like, you know, when you're seven of the top 10 products, I'm doing the mental math in my head. But we're feeling, we're feeling good about saying.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  We're feeling good.

• 27:24Emma Grede?

  I'm feeling good about saying hundreds of millions of dollars. Are we concurring here?

• 27:28Speaker 02

  We're feeling good.

• 27:29Emma Grede?

  We're feeling good. Okay, so how, how have the community responded to the growth, to the journey that you've taken them on? Have you, like, I just wonder how you've been able to. To build and keep that community with you.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  I think about this all the time.

• 27:41Emma Grede?

  You do?

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I just, I'd never want to lose their trust and connection. So we're always adapting, you know, we'll do a Zoom for, hey, let's do a masterclass on how to, where to place your blush. And we'll invite our whole, our community to do that. We do run clubs all over.

• 27:59Emma Grede?

  Run clubs?

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, we just did one outside of London.

• 28:01Emma Grede?

  Are we running, you did?

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:03Emma Grede?

  In my London?

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it makes you feel good. You know, our tagline is feel good, do good.

• 28:08Emma Grede?

  So we're not like in a face full of makeup, we're just feeling good then?

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're just going for a run and then they get to try a product and connect with the community. I think there's been run clubs where we run to Sephora. But, you know, we've done matcha, obviously I love matcha. So we've done lots of like cafe says where you can come and try products and meet people. I love in-person things.

• 28:29Emma Grede?

  Is it still as central to the business as it were when you started out, like building, maintaining, speaking to this community?

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yes, I, I think that as a consumer, like having that connection to the soul of the brand and having that transparency and having that authenticity is really what keeps the connection there. Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a girl, her name's Daniela. She follows me on Instagram. She was one of our first super fans. She messages me all the time and I write her questions. I'm like, what are you looking for? What do you want to see next? How are you liking that powder blush?

• 29:06Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I think that's genius, but to me, there is nothing like that original cohort of customers, the first people that come out and bought your brand. A, they remember the product right from the beginning. They're always the first ones to tell you when it's like, well, I feel like you changed that fabric. I'm like, what? We did, but we're changing it back. But you know what I mean? It's like having, like, listening to those early adopters and using them. I feel like it's a great, it's a great thing. I want to talk a little bit about you and leadership because you have said some things that I love. Sometimes I read you and I like clap at the page. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Well, exactly what she said. There was one quote that I love where you talk about texts and phone calls being like the lowest level of communication. Where you talk to me, what do you mean by that?

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Pick up the phone. I mean, it makes me so crazy. Someone will be like, oh yeah, I wasn't able to get in touch with them. I'm like, did you call? Like, no. That means you didn't, you didn't try.

• 30:01Emma Grede?

  You didn't try.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Are you kidding me?

• 30:02Emma Grede?

  You didn't try.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  I mean, also, I don't know that I like myself over text and email as much as I like myself in person.

• 30:09Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  You know, like, things can come off wrong.

• 30:11Emma Grede?

  Totally, totally. There's a lost art of actually meeting people in person.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:16Emma Grede?

  And, um, and doing business that way. There's something, it's so easy to fire someone, to relinquish their services, to, you know, if you've never met them and your relationship is only via email. But if you know someone, it's very different. It's like future-proofing your career. I'm like, get in front of people.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  That's such a good, that's, that's a good tip. Pick it up, pick up your pens, people.

• 30:39Emma Grede?

  Come on, just get in front of people. And so as your, as your brand has grown, has your leadership style changed, do you think?

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think as a first time founder, I mean, I remember those first couple of years, literally feeling like I was stepping into my power. This was the role that I was born to do and that I really wasn't totally myself until I was able to like, become the leader of say.

• 31:07Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's really interesting because you are founder and CEO, correct?

• 31:10Speaker 02

  I feel more myself than I ever have. And I think the more I learn from my mistakes, the better I get.

• 31:18Emma Grede?

  Yeah. What kind of CEO are you?

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Hmm. Oh, my gosh. I think we might have to ask someone and say that question.

• 31:25Emma Grede?

  What would they say?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  I think, I, I aspire for greatness and I, I expect that from everybody that I work with and because I want that for them.

• 31:32Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  I grew up in a time where, where, you know, editors were yelling at people and throwing shoes at them and, and I kind of miss that. I'm like, they wanted you to.

• 31:42Emma Grede?

  You want to throw some shoes, Laney?

• 31:43Speaker 02

  I don't want to throw a shoe. I have no need to throw a shoe, but I loved when everybody wanted everyone to be great.

• 31:50Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Not just like here.

• 31:52Emma Grede?

  Yeah, when you, everybody was striving for greatness.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:57Emma Grede?

  You know, and some of that, or so much of that, I think comes from the conditions that you create in the organisation, right? Is there room for your staff to be great? Is everyone on a mission? Does everybody believe in what we're doing here? And when you have those things, like magic stuff happens, but you still need everybody to come to work with it, right? You need everybody to, to participate. But I agree with you. I think that there is something magical when everyone brings their A game and the expectation is an A game.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  It's so fun. And like, I wouldn't have hired you if I didn't think you could be great.

• 32:28Emma Grede?

  Yeah, totally.

• 32:29Speaker 02

  And not just to say, for the rest of your life.

• 32:31Emma Grede?

  For the rest of your life?

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:32Emma Grede?

  Yeah, because it's training, right? You're training, we're all in training to be the person that we really want to be and the leader that we want to be. And so it's really important. It's like, you've just got to behave and act the way that you want to be and it just becomes default.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Act as if.

• 32:46Emma Grede?

  Yeah, act as if for sure. So as Say is expanding now, I know you just came back from Dubai, which is so exciting, such an amazing market for your, for your category. How are you thinking about the brand and the shift, like from an assortment point of view, from a storytelling point of view? Does anything change as you like leave your home market?

• 33:05Speaker 02

  I think one thing that's really interesting that I learned when I got to Dubai, when we launched there about a year and a half ago, we were in all of the Sephora Middle East stores, but when I got to Dubai, they were like, oh no, we know everything. We know all your products, we know you, we know the brand. And it was almost like I had time travelled.

• 33:21Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  And for me, it was an aha moment that consumers are really becoming one.

• 33:26Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Because of social media, there isn't that deep nuance that they're necessarily used to be. Like, of course, we might hire a local model and, and do things like that. And the assortment is definitely a little bit different. They love blush in the Middle East. I mean, that is like, we just can't keep it on the shelf. When we expand internationally, there's so much demand in Europe, specifically the UK, Australia. So excited to enter those markets. Right now, they just want Say.

• 33:54Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:55Emma Grede?

  And have you had to hire internally, like people that specifically work in those markets? Or are you doing it all with?

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. One thing that I've always done is I hired a field team from day one.

• 34:05Emma Grede?

  Love that. So a field team, you mean people that are on the ground, in the stores, at Sephora?

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Selling product.

• 34:11Emma Grede?

  Love.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:12Emma Grede?

  And coming back to you.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Yes. And telling me what's working, what's not working, little things like the label on the blush box is on the wrong side. And we don't know which brush that is. And so the consumer, if my field team member is not there, that means that the consumer can't find it. And intouch and span is so short. If someone can't find something, they might just move on.

• 34:30Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  So little tiny details like that are like, we have a blush right now in store and the lights are bleaching out the color a little bit. And we're swapping it out. You know, like you want to be able to react really fast to that. And the only people that are going to take care of your brand like that are people that are on your team.

• 34:47Emma Grede?

  I think that is a great piece of advice for people. I remember working on the shop floor as a kid. And there were these people called mystery shoppers that would come in.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Totally, I remember that.

• 34:56Emma Grede?

  You know, and I'd always be like, that's a mystery shopper right there. You know, she's come in as a spy from HQ. But I think it's a great thing for people to learn. And if you can't hire somebody internally, there are so many like agencies and services that do it. But having boots on the ground to understand what is the consumer experiencing? What other things are stopping people buying your brand? There's just no, there is no replacement for it. You know, it's like, that's just, you need it.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  I totally agree. And I would even say, I think they need to be your own, even if you can only hire one.

• 35:28Emma Grede?

  You're like, bring that, spend the money and bring that person in.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:32Emma Grede?

  I don't think, I mean, I'm trying to think, it's always taken me a couple of years before I've been able to have those people. But I totally agree with you, actually. I think it's, it's an imperative and it's a game changer. Cause the problem is you get, you get too like far down, especially in your category. Cause it's like, you're making custom packaging. And as you say, it's like, if you can't see what that blush is, you're literally going there to get the next blush. So it's.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Right next door.

• 35:57Emma Grede?

  Right? Like literally one, one bay over. It's like not even a, it's not even a step. It's just a hand movement and it's a problem.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  A head twist.

• 36:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah, damn right. I love that. What would you say to young founders looking to break into the beauty industry?

• 36:10Speaker 02

  Hmm. I would say figure out how to build your community as early as you can. Create content, meet people, you know, really start building your network. People for some reason tell me they don't like the word networking. That's like a thing now.

• 36:22Emma Grede?

  Oh, maybe I, maybe that was my problem because I like to differentiate between building a network and networking.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  Building a network and networking.

• 36:31Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and I feel like, uh, let, let me break this one down.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay.

• 36:34Emma Grede?

  I feel like you might just listening to what you've done. To me, there are all of these events and circles where people go out and they network around. To me, building a network is, it can be your bank manager, your lawyer, your suppliers, your vendors, like building the network is building the group of people that are gonna help you get shit done, not having drinks and going out for women empowerment dinners. That's something else.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 37:00Emma Grede?

  Do you know what I mean? And I feel like there's this whole group of women that like, I'm never invited. I'm like, don't worry about the invite. Your network is the people that move you from A to B. And she typically is not wearing a good outfit at a dinner or invited either.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  What I mean by it is like relationships in the sense of like picking up the phone and having a real relationship with somebody. And I think that that is something that is, is really hard for a younger generation that is so focused on their phones and focused on scrolling. And they feel like they're in relationships with people, but they're not. And so I think really having those connections and saying like, hey, I would love to pick your brain for five minutes or can I please take you to coffee? Or, and by the way, read all of the articles and podcasts before you go meet that person and ask new questions that aren't in those.

• 37:47Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  That would be probably my number one tip is try to start building that community and, and, and knowing people in the space.

• 37:54Emma Grede?

  I couldn't agree with you more. I've done a whole episode on what it means to build your network. And I think that sticking your neck out, asking for something specific, because a lot of people, you know, they might meet you, they might meet me, and they'll say, you know, how do you become my mentor? I'm like, don't waste time, ask a question. Like, do you know what I mean? It's like, I probably don't have time to mentor you, but right now I'm in front of you, like.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  You have, you have a minute, go.

• 38:17Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it's like, just go. How would you talk to people? Or how would you recommend people go about building a network? Like, what did you do? When you say like, ask someone for a coffee, like, what did you actually do to build your network?

• 38:30Speaker 02

  I got my Google Sheet and I just started writing names.

• 38:35Emma Grede?

  I hope you're saving all these lists. They're gonna be amazing to look at.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  I wrote down Rishi, who got investment for his, like, a food app, who was a friend of my friend Jeremy's. I wrote down anybody like that. I wrote down, like, my husband's uncle. Like, I wrote down people that I just heard them say the word, fundraising, or, you know, whatever it is. And I'd say, oh, hey, you know, I'd really love to talk to you about this. Can I come to your office? I would always go to them.

• 39:01Emma Grede?

  And you were always available for whatever time they needed, no doubt.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  Anytime. I go, when I drive around New York City now, it's like a blast from the past of all of these random buildings that I went into because I would go anywhere for that five-minute meeting.

• 39:14Emma Grede?

  And then tell me what you would do, right? So you're gonna sit in this meeting, you're gonna talk to this guy, the husband's uncle. Like, what were you asking? What were you trying to get out of that?

• 39:23Speaker 02

  I was saying, I think I need to raise a million dollars and I don't know how to get there. I don't know who to talk to. Do you have anybody who you think might be interested in investing in beauty? And they would say yes or no. And I'd say, okay, and by the way, what type of investment do you think I should be doing? I've heard a convertible note is really good. I've also heard a safe is really good. Do you know the difference? Do you have any opinions on that? Do you have anybody who you think could be helpful for me to speak to?

• 39:48Emma Grede?

  And Laney, just for clarity, for anyone listening to this, you had no idea what a convertible note was, what a safe was. You heard those things and went and figured it out.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  That's been a huge learning for me, is like, learning how to speak the language. I did not know how to speak the language of fundraising. It was as if I was learning Chinese at the same time as building my business. I didn't know any of the terminology and I definitely made mistakes. I think there should be a book about this for founders who understand equity and what you're giving up when you raise a million dollars with a five million dollar valuation and what post and pre-money is. And all of those things are really important things to understand. I think that I learned the language of Sephora. I think that was a big one for me. When I met them, I was speaking Estee Lauder.

• 40:36Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  And I had to learn how to speak Sephora. Now that I know how to speak it, I definitely prefer it. It's, um, they are some of my, like, lifelong friends. I love the Sephora team. I think they are absolutely the best partners I could have ever dreamed of, but it took me a while to learn how to communicate with them.

• 40:51Emma Grede?

  Yeah. It's just excellent advice. And may I suggest that you write the book? Let's just go and do a publishing deal right now because it's like you've been there, you've seen it, you've done it.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  And you'll do the forward.

• 41:03Emma Grede?

  Let's go.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:04Emma Grede?

  Let's go. It's a deal. It's a deal, my darling.

• 41:16Emma Grede?

  So let's talk a little bit about the fact that you are a mother.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:19Emma Grede?

  And while you've been building this multi-million dollar brand. You have two kids, eight and five, am I right?

• 41:27Speaker 02

  So I wrote the business plan for, say, when I was on my due date with Isabella. I was, she was two weeks late.

• 41:34Emma Grede?

  Why is that timing? Why is that? Every family I talk to, you're either like trying to get pregnant, getting pregnant, or giving birth.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  I think, I think it's because our bodies are creating. And so like literally creation is like coming out of our pores.

• 41:46Emma Grede?

  Oof, I love that.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  And I was so big. I was like a whale. And I just wanted this baby to come out and she was two weeks late. And I remember sitting down saying, I guess I'm just going to work on this business plan because it's in my head and it just needs to come out of me. And then I had.

• 42:02Emma Grede?

  You're like, something needs to come out of me.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Something needs to come out. And, you know, I remember when I had Isabella, I was knocked to the ground. I found becoming a mom so hard. It was like an existential crisis for me of like, who am I? This is so hard. I just didn't see it coming at all. And so it was about three months after, when Isabelle was around three months old, I was like, okay, I think I can start taking next steps. And I remember sitting with her all of those nights, you know, you're, you're in silence, you're exhausted, you're rocking this baby. And I was just building the business in my mind. I was just sitting there with her as she couldn't sleep and I would be rubbing her back

• 42:49Speaker 02

  or she'd, and she'd fall asleep on me. And I was just building the business and writing it out and dreaming and crafting all of that. And so then, once I was ready to go, I was ready to go. And so we launched, say, in November 2019 and I gave birth to Rosie, July 2020.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  So I was pregnant for that first whole bit of launching the business, COVID hitting, and then getting into Sephora.

• 43:17Emma Grede?

  How do you think the timing of all of that impacted the decisions that you had to make?

• 43:23Speaker 02

  I think they're impacting my decisions now more, actually. Yep, I think it's getting harder for me to leave them. I think when they were little, I like wanted out. I wanted a break really badly.

• 43:34Emma Grede?

  Thank you for saying that.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  And now I don't. Now I want to be with them all the time. And so it's really hard for me to leave now.

• 43:40Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I remember when my babies were little, kind of complaining to other mums about having to leave so much. And they were like, you know what, Emma, it gets so much harder as they get older. And I could never imagine that because I was like, yeah, but when they're older, they're more self-sufficient. But when they're older, they need you more. And when they're older, they know the number of days that you're away. And so it does get much harder. And I think this, this age, I mean, listen, parents will tell you all the ages are so complex, but when you have kids that are between kind of like five and fourteen, when they're like not fully hanging out with their friends, but they need you and like you're their friend and they still want you in that way, it's a very big decision to get up and go.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Well, you don't want to miss it.

• 44:19Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  I don't want to miss it. Yesterday, when I was leaving to come here, I woke up Isabella to say goodbye and she said, Mom, when you leave, it's like everything leaves.

• 44:29Emma Grede?

  Isabella.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  But I think that-

• 44:31Emma Grede?

  Be less good with your words, will you?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  And I was like, girl.

• 44:35Emma Grede?

  Girl.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  I was like, I hear you.

• 44:38Emma Grede?

  So what do you say? What do you say to Isabella when she says it's you?

• 44:41Speaker 02

  I said, I hear you. I was like, I totally get it. I was like, I feel the exact same way. I was like, I hate leaving. I was like, but I'm building my dreams right now. Like, we talk about that all the time. We talk about two things all the time. We talk about building your dreams and how much work that takes. And then we talk about how hard things are and how the harder it is, the better you're getting. And I promised her that tonight, I get in at like midnight, that we're going to do a sleepover.

• 45:11Emma Grede?

  I love that. I love that.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:13Emma Grede?

  I mean, I do the same thing and I think it is really important that your kids see you sacrifice. They understand the sacrifices, but you're being really honest, right? You're building your dreams. That's going to teach her that she can go out and build her dreams and make sacrifices.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  I'm also really present. So Isabella and I, you know, we dance in her bedroom. And she'll be, you know, Rosie will be like, you know, how many books tonight? And I'll be like, two.

• 45:36Emma Grede?

  And I'll be like, go on, let's do three.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:38Emma Grede?

  Do that every night.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Because I, I do think that's a blessing and I want to look at the, the silver lining of that of like, oh, like, I'm so happy to be here with you. Like, I am, we do the soccer clinic and the other moms are like, I'll drive. I'm like, no, no, I'm going to drive.

• 45:57Emma Grede?

  I'm going to drive.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  And I love it. And we're going to listen to music. I'm going to, we're going to listen to Avicii. We're going to like, party and we're, and I'm going to watch your whole lesson. And I'm just like, so happy and blessed to be there.

• 46:08Emma Grede?

  Yeah. And I do, I, listen, I don't get huge amounts of time with my kids every day, but it's like, when I'm there, I'm in it, right? And I feel like that is really important, just having that concentrated moment because your kid feels that. They know when they are the center of what is happening versus when you're highly distracted. And so for me, it's like, the trade off has been, okay, if the time is limited, we're going to make the time that I am there really matter.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  I also really think about what I'm going to invest my money in in terms of so that I can have more time with them. So, you know,

• 46:39Emma Grede?

  Oh, say more.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  What is the, the help that I'm going to have around me so that I can be super focused on them? So that I'm not, you know, in the kitchen or I'm not grocery shopping. You know, I don't have to do school pickup if I don't have time to that, but I can be super present by the time they get home. And I think that's something that people don't really talk about. It happens a little bit behind the scenes.

• 47:01Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Look, for the first two years of, say, I didn't take a salary. And for the next two years of, say, my entire salary went to childcare.

• 47:09Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 47:10Emma Grede?

  I mean, first of all, so so much that you just said in those last three sentences. People really don't like talking about having help. And I think it's a, I think it's the single biggest privilege of my life that I have so much help with my kids and around the house. And I know that from a young age, when I couldn't afford much, just having someone that would come once a week and clean my house. I am always about outsourcing whatever I can, whether it was like meal prep back in the day, like whatever I could. And I think that we've got to take the shame out of that because wherever women can get a little bit of help. If it's a neighbor, it's carpooling, it's deciding that one week you're going to do something and you've got two other moms that you switch. You've got to take it like to me, there is no shame in that game.

• 47:53Emma Grede?

  And if you can pay to make some of the heavy work disappear as a as a mother. Like, why not? Why would you not do that?

• 48:02Speaker 02

  And why would we let other people shame us about that?

• 48:04Emma Grede?

  I have just no idea.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:06Emma Grede?

  And I speak about it constantly because I hate that idea that as a female founder, we'd be putting forth the idea that suddenly I've found an extra hour in the day. I haven't. When people say to me, how do you do all of that? I actually answer back with all the shit that I don't do. I'm like, here's a list of the stuff that I don't do. I haven't cleaned an oven in ten years, right? It's like there are things that I don't do to get to where I want to be and where I am in life. I never want to put forward this idea that you are doing it all or that we are doing it all because it just feels completely inaccurate to the realities of my life.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Well, it feels like it's just perpetuating this idea for other moms.

• 48:45Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 48:46Emma Grede?

  What do you think your non-negotiables are when it comes to your kids?

• 48:50Speaker 02

  In the sense of who I want them to be or what the mom I want to be?

• 48:53Emma Grede?

  Yeah, the mom you want to be.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Hmm. I want to be there for the things that matter to them. Like if they're have a basketball game, they have a play, if that's important to them, like I want to be there for them. I want to always take them to school. I love doing. Drop off in the morning and being with them all morning. I want to be really present with them when they are meeting me. I I never want to say, oh, hold on a minute.

• 49:20Emma Grede?

  Do you say, hold on a minute?

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Sometimes I have to, but oftentimes, no. Like, if I'm there and they're like, Mom, I need help, I'm like, let me help you.

• 49:29Emma Grede?

  I love that. All right, so switching gears a little bit, I am so interested in how you've built this company and that you have stayed true to what it was that you originally set out to do with Clean Beauty. What are some of the early decisions that you made that affected operations? Like, when when you actually, like, said, okay, we're gonna do this?

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:51Emma Grede?

  Is it is it more expensive? Is it harder to do? Does it make things slower?

• 49:55Speaker 02

  The sustainable piece is always more expensive. But as you scale, it gets better. And my philosophy was that, you know, I'd worked at a huge corporation. So I knew how hard it was for them to turn and become more sustainable from not being. So I was like, let's just do it from day one.

• 50:11Emma Grede?

  Where I I wonder, like, where the pressure to compromise came from the most? Like, where is it? If ever you've margins. Margins, margins will always get you.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, margins are where it comes. But we're just so, my team is so dedicated. Sometimes they say things to me, they're like, but Laney, that's the more sustainable option. I'm like, I really wanted the other one.

• 50:30Emma Grede?

  I really want to push for margin on this. I'm selling something every four seconds, guys.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  But, you know, I think that for me, that's how I sleep at night. And for me, that's how I like also justify everything with my kids where I'm like, babes, like, let's change the world.

• 50:47Emma Grede?

  That's so impressive. And is there a decision that you made that you think has been critical or foundational to Saez's credibility?

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Bringing the community, I mean, it's where the name of the brand comes from. You say it, we create it. It was from our community saying what they wanted.

• 51:03Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's amazing.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we're always listening to them. We're always bringing in, we're so tight with them in the DMs and the in my DMs, I'm, you know, writing back. Someone in Saudi Arabia said she wasn't happy with her sub ten. I was like, send her a new one.

• 51:17Emma Grede?

  Send her a new one.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Yep, and I think those little extras are the differentiator between a big brand and a legacy brand. You know, we do all those little extras that really make people know, like, okay, we are a brand of depth and soul and we're here to stay.

• 51:32Emma Grede?

  Beyond the the scale and the revenue, you must feel like so proud about what you're building. Does it all come from that sustainability piece? Or are there other parts that make you feel so proud too?

• 51:46Speaker 02

  I'm so proud, but I'm not really one to like sit still. I do, I do have, I have mentally shifted a little bit to like, okay, like, let's dance on tables. Like, let's have, let's really enjoy this moment. But no, I'm very ambitious, so I'm always kind of like on to the next a little bit.

• 52:05Emma Grede?

  How does ambition show up for you now? Like, what, what's the next thing? Like, what are you trying, what's the fire in your belly? What's getting you out of bed?

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Babe, I feel like I'm just starting.

• 52:14Emma Grede?

  You do?

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I feel like I'm at like the starting line.

• 52:18Emma Grede?

  That's interesting. Six years in, you feel like you're at the starting line.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  In so many ways. I mean, we've really gone slow in a lot of ways. I mean, we have, we have very little distribution. We're in U S, we're in Canada, we're only online in the U K. And then we did the Middle East as like our first international market. So we have the whole rest of the world. I wanted to tell you this story about perseverance that I think about all the time and I talk to my kids about. And it was going back to fundraising, but I think it also really applies to like the growth of the brand. Is that when I was growing up, we always had to play a sport. And it was a must have in my family. You had to play a sport every single season. And so I was always good at swimming. But when we moved back to the United States, we moved to California and there was a sport called water polo.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  And I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll go do that because I'm good at swimming. I had no idea what I was doing. And so that summer, my dad was like, okay, let's go play in a club league. And I got there and I was the worst. And the kids bullied me and it was from three to six P M. every single day.

• 53:24Emma Grede?

  Oof.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  And I did not miss one practice. And I would sit in the parking lot with like a pit in my stomach. I was so dreading going to that practice, but I showed up every single day. And at the end of the season, the coach said, okay, well, it's time for me to build the team to go to the Junior Olympics. It was a really advanced team. He said, Laney, he's like, you're on the team, but not because you're like the top thirteenth player. It's because you showed up every day. And that was my biggest life lesson I've ever learned because it showed me that like, even though I'm not the best. You can still get there if you put in the time and you put in the work. And you know, when you say the story about like, oh, the brands that don't work at Sephora.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  And I just believe that if you put in the work, it'll always work out.

• 54:11Emma Grede?

  I love that story because I think it says so much about the type of the type of entrepreneur you are, but it's also something that I believe for so many women can be a stumbling block, right? Just having the wherewithal to keep going at something, face the rejection, not be good at it, because so many of us are perfectionists and we wanna be good right out the gate, you know, and when you're not, that can be massively, you know, distracting for people. I feel like so many people give up at a point where, again, for you, you're just getting started. And that is so much a part of what it takes to be an incredible entrepreneur. Not only have you got to have the resilience, but you've just got to have the perseverance to keep going.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  It's a mindset. It's a mindset of like, oh, you know, you're gonna run out of space at Sephora, or this isn't gonna work, or oh, that, or it's gonna work because I'm gonna make it work.

• 55:05Emma Grede?

  What do you wanna say to other women that look at you and go, wow, like she worked in corporate, and she was an editor, and she's stopping people on the streets, and now she's got this incredible brand? Like, what do you say when people come up to you and go, I want a career exactly like yours?

• 55:22Speaker 02

  You can do it.

• 55:23Emma Grede?

  Do you really believe that? Do you believe everyone can do it?

• 55:27Speaker 02

  I think because I did. And I wasn't the smartest or the most talented or the anything-est. I just put in the work.

• 55:36Emma Grede?

  Fair. What's the ambition for the company now? Like, what are we, fast forward for me, however many years, what do you want?

• 55:44Speaker 02

  My dream has always been to be a legacy brand that makes a difference, that really impacts the industry.

• 55:50Emma Grede?

  Do you have a benchmark for what that looks like?

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 55:53Emma Grede?

  When you say legacy brand, I mean, you came from lauda, but I wonder like, what's the, what's the goal? Like, when you sit there and you go, I just want this?

• 56:02Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness, why don't I have an answer to this? I think it's just that staying power where like, you know, when we get those numbers back from Sephora and they're like, oh, forty percent of people at Sephora shops say, I want that to be a hundred.

• 56:17Emma Grede?

  You know. Facts. Yeah. No, that's it. I mean, listen, that's, that's a lot of people. I agree with you. I think that there is like such a unbelievable runway for your brand, but also for you as a entrepreneur, founder and CEO. And I love the fact that you said no to bring in on a co-founder in the beginning because you were proven and you continue to prove that you are the single best person to run this company. And that is so impressive, but it's also creating a pathway for so many other female founders to do what they're doing and to have belief in themselves and their category and just go for it, you know, but it really takes a lot of people to do well, to create the thinking

• 56:59Emma Grede?

  for other people that that should just be the norm. And so I think that you are like a bright, shiny light out there, which is really, really important. We need, we need that.

• 57:13Speaker 06

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• 57:48Emma Grede?

  I want to talk to you about your relationship with money because this is often something that I think a lot of female founders shy away from talking about, and I understand why. Do you think your, your relationship with money has changed running this business?

• 58:03Speaker 02

  The reason I pause is because I literally had a little conversation with myself about money yesterday.

• 58:10Emma Grede?

  What did you say? Play it out for me.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Because I was thinking, I was like, you know, I am such a good consumer.

• 58:16Emma Grede?

  That is such an elegant way to put things.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  I.

• 58:20Emma Grede?

  You and me both.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  And um, you know, I was like, you know, I probably should have some more money in my savings account. But I don't have any debt. It's really important to me. I don't, I don't love debt. I don't love the, a brand having debt. I was very important for me to get to profitability. That was like always my goal is like, how can we get to profitability as fast as possible? I want to raise enough money so that we can get into orbit, which I always just had this visual of like this rocket ship with enough fuel so that once we got out there, we didn't need any more fuel. Right? That we didn't need to have more cash injections. I think now I don't see money as something that's hard to get. I think that money is energy and it flows.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  And if someone invests in my company, like, you're lucky. Like, I think a lot, I think I had a mindset of like, I'm lucky. And now I see it as like the complete opposite of like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna work my ass off for you. You're, you're really lucky.

• 59:20Emma Grede?

  You have built something really fantastic. Your early investors will be absolutely thrilled. But at some point, that mindset shift has to change. And I think it's quite healthy at the beginning because you don't want to walk into investors with arrogance as a first time founder.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 59:33Emma Grede?

  But it's a balance, right?

• 59:34Speaker 02

  It's a balance.

• 59:35Emma Grede?

  It's not being in service of all of these people. It's like you choose investors, they get to come along on the ride. They win some, they lose some, and that's just par for the course.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  And you always talk about smart money.

• 59:45Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  And I think that is one thing that I, I didn't know it, but I kind of did. I mean, Rachel Harris at Unilever Ventures gave me the best advice I could have ever gotten. She said, you have to have a key retailer. D to C is dead.

• 59:59Emma Grede?

  Dead.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  And I did not know that. I was like, but what about Casper? I mean, like, what about Glossier? I was like, I.

• 1:00:06Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  All of these references that for me, I thought were the gold standard. And so, I mean, that's just one of a thousand pieces of advice she's given me that were incredible. But I feel so lucky that she's in my corner and that she was my lead investor from day one. She's like my fairy godmother, kind of.

• 1:00:23Emma Grede?

  I was so lucky that you had somebody like that.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  And then once I had her, I knew what to look for.

• 1:00:27Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  In other investors.

• 1:00:29Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  What are, what are you bringing to the table?

• 1:00:31Emma Grede?

  And and I love that because I talk about it constantly. It can't ever. I mean, listen, maybe once in the beginning, it's just about money. But once you've got that initial

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Emma Grede?

  piece, it's like you need a lot of other things.

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:43Emma Grede?

  And the advice and the experience and the sector expertise, like that matters more in so many ways. Is there other advice that you got that you're like, thank God, somebody told me that?

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  Someone didn't tell me to do reference checks.

• 1:00:57Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  And I think that is

• 1:00:59Emma Grede?

  For your investors, you mean?

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  For anyone. I think that is a lost art. And if there is one thing I can say that I wish I had done differently, I wish I had done more reference checks over the years. I think references are everything and I think you should put the time in. And if someone tells you like, oh, well, I can't, you know, give a reference for X, Y and Z reason, then call me when you can.

• 1:01:20Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I I love that piece of advice. I, in the beginning, when I was taking investment for Good American, I actually nearly walked away from a very good investor because I wasn't, you know, it wasn't the one that I was feeling most inclined towards. And I called Jen Akin. And she said, these are the best people on my cap table. And I was like, really? And it just was the thing that sealed the deal because it was somebody that I trusted with, you know, years of experience with this person. I remember like doing the math in my head and thinking, yeah, my business was about the same size as when she took that. And so, you know, in my head, I was like, great, they get it. But that

• 1:01:59Emma Grede?

  connection to the information can only come from someone who's been in business with those people. And so, I mean, I'm crazy about reference checking. It's just because I just like to make calls.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:02:11Emma Grede?

  And I make calls about like, even if it's not a reference check, I'm just like, let me just ask the opinion of like X, Y and Z whenever I'm making a decision. But it is, it's part of that check, check, double check, call someone who knows. If you don't know, you better get to know.

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:02:25Emma Grede?

  All right. So if you could go back and speak to yourself right at the very beginning, before the crazy numbers,

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:33Emma Grede?

  before Sephora, what would you tell yourself to worry less about?

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  I'm like a professional worrier. So I like to, I I am in the weeds. I'm in the details. I think about everything. Like I, you know, someone didn't have the right address today. And I was like, who did that? How'd that happen? Let's talk about that.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  Right? Totally. How do we fix that? What's our lesson learned? Let's recap that. I love, I love, I love going over. We have a call called the hindsight's call.

• 1:03:05Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love a hindsight.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  And it's, and it's every, after every launch, we hindsight what didn't work. And at first, the team was like only talking about what did work because they like wanted to, I think, everything to be all rosy. And I was like,

• 1:03:18Emma Grede?

  That is human nature and, and what every single team does to me at hindsight.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  And I was like, I was like, no, guys, I'm like, did you send the right amount of people? Like, did the warehouse know what they were doing? Like, let's get one percent better every single time.

• 1:03:33Emma Grede?

  Lenny, for people that don't know, we just talk through like what a hindsight looks like. After a launch, you're doing what exactly? What metrics are you looking at?

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  We're looking at the EMV. That's a big one that we're looking at. We're the number one clean beauty EMV brand. And so that's really important for me that we keep growing that because then, you know, you get to number one clean and then you're like, now I want.

• 1:03:53Emma Grede?

  Let's go.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  Overall, right? And so I think we were number 14 overall last year. So that's how are we getting to the top 10? You know, we're looking at every single side of the business. So we even have supply chain on there. We have planning on there. We have social, obviously, social takes up a big chunk of it.

• 1:04:10Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Um, of like what TikToks performed the best. How did that see, how did that whisper part of the phase go? Was it too long? Did we tease it too long, too short? Every single aspect of that, if you're walking through the entire experience again, what would you do differently?

• 1:04:26Emma Grede?

  Yeah. And I love that because I think it's great discipline. Yeah, me too. I mean, I really am. It's like, we're just coming off of Q4. And so hindsight in the entire holiday shop and we go through every single thing. It's like every print, every silhouette, every category, every fabrication, every marketing campaign, every split, the whole thing. And being deeply reflective in your business can be really painful because you're like, shit, we did that again? Like, you know, I always want the.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  Pretty sure we've made that mistake like five times.

• 1:04:57Emma Grede?

  Totally. You're like, well, what do you mean? That was in the last hindsight. But it's actually amazing because you start to see the patterns in your company. And I think companies are often very similar to people, right? They take on a life of their own and they do similar things and they make similar mistakes.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  Toddler, then you're a little bit older, then you're a tween.

• 1:05:13Emma Grede?

  Where, where are you in this? Are you, are you out, you're out of the terrible twos?

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  We're, oh, yeah.

• 1:05:17Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  Well, we're six now. So I think, you know, we're sleeping through the night.

• 1:05:21Emma Grede?

  Totally. I got it.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Emma Grede?

  Dip us off.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  I know, I think my team got really intimidated by hindsight so they didn't realize that I love them. I don't even care about any mistake. I just want to learn from it.

• 1:05:32Emma Grede?

  Totally. And I think when you create that culture purposefully, it gives people permission to make mistakes because you're saying collectively, we own this. Collectively, what could we all do better? It's not like you over there in the logistics department. Facts, right? And it actually is great for a founder to sit there and go like, hey, that direction that I gave, like that was wrong because so often it's me. Did I say that? Oh yeah, I remember now.

• 1:06:01Emma Grede?

  It's really good. It's really, it's really, really healthy. I'm excited for the runway that you've got in front of you.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:06:08Emma Grede?

  What's the most exciting thing that you are thinking about like right now? As you think about this company that you've got, where you've kind of put this fun in the heart of it? Where is that sitting for you right now?

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  So we have so many requests from Europe. I'm really excited to get there.

• 1:06:24Emma Grede?

  What are those Europeans asking for? They just want you in town.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  I mean, you know what? Quite honestly, when I got to Paris for Fashion Week a couple, what was that like a year ago, we did the Khloe show? And we did a little thing and I was like, oh my God, I was like, these are the Say girls.

• 1:06:40Emma Grede?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  I mean, they, that the way that they wear makeup is so no makeup. Makeup, it's skin first. They care about ingredients. They care about the health of their skin.

• 1:06:49Emma Grede?

  Sienna Miller in the front row of that show. I mean, she's like, oh, heaven. Heaven. No, that's your girls. I mean, you know.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  And so.

• 1:06:56Emma Grede?

  The Brits, the French.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  I'm excited. The Italians. I went to the flagship in Milan when we were there. And oh my gosh, they're like, we need Say now. And I was like, okay, I hear you.

• 1:07:09Emma Grede?

  We're coming.

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  Let's go.

• 1:07:10Emma Grede?

  We're coming.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:07:11Emma Grede?

  Listen, I think it's going to be an amazing journey. I will be watching you and cheering you on. I cannot tell you, I have a makeup bag, actually a beautiful vanity case, a viewer set, full of Say that I will be using. And I'm so happy for you. I'm so happy for all of your success. And I'm so happy that you feel this ambitious and that you're in this beautiful category that just we're crying out for. I feel like all the girls are crying out for it. So congratulations to you.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  For this platform. I mean, I just love that we're having this conversation. I love that this is like what the vibe is.

• 1:07:45Emma Grede?

  Damn right.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Yes, let's all get it.

• 1:07:48Emma Grede?

  Yes. No, let's all get it and let's learn from each other.

• 1:07:53Emma Grede?

  So before we wrap, a quick reminder that Start With Yourself is available for pre-order and tickets for the live shows are available now. Starting April 15th, we're coming to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, DC, Boston, Atlanta, and London. Visit emigre.com for tickets and full tour details. I cannot wait.

• 1:08:14Emma Grede?

  All right, all we've got to do now are the rapid fire questions. You ready?

• 1:08:17Speaker 02

  I think I'm ready.

• 1:08:18Emma Grede?

  Okay. I'm terrible at rapid fire because I'm just so fucking long-winded, so feel free. All right, what is the one say product that you cannot live without?

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  Oh, glowy super gel.

• 1:08:29Emma Grede?

  Oh, me too. I was gonna say that.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:31Emma Grede?

  It's so good, that product. What is that?

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  It is, when I launched that product, people said, but this, what is this?

• 1:08:38Emma Grede?

  But that's what I'm like, what does this replace it? I don't have this.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  It doesn't have a category and that's what has made it the number one highlighter at Sephora. I mean, it just, people are like, it gives me back my youth, my light, my lip from within. It makes me like, I slept all night. I mean, you, forever first up.

• 1:08:54Emma Grede?

  I call it my 15-year-old face.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:56Emma Grede?

  I'm like, where's my 15-year-old face? That's it. It's like, there she is. Maybe a slight exaggeration, but that's how I feel, okay? It's much about how you feel. What do you think is the most overhyped makeup, like, routine or step or trend or thing that you're seeing out there?

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  Like, what do I feel like you could skip?

• 1:09:16Emma Grede?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  Hmm, great question. I mean, I did just launch an incredible setting spray that is aerosol-free, alcohol-free. It's great for your skin. I think you can skip the aerosol in your face, setting your makeup for 24 hours, I think for an occasion, but I don't think you need that every day.

• 1:09:35Emma Grede?

  Facts. What is one money rule that you live by?

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  Know that you'll always have it.

• 1:09:43Emma Grede?

  Oh, she's coming from an abundance mindset, not scarcity. Woo hoo hoo. What is a book that changed your life?

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  Let My People Go Surfing.

• 1:09:54Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's a good one. That's the founder of Patagonia, right? Yvon Chouinard?

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:09:59Emma Grede?

  Oh, amazing.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  I gifted it to everybody at Say for one of our offsites. I just, every chapter of that book gets better and better. When you're reading this book and then all of a sudden, he's talking about how he brought daycare into the workplace.

• 1:10:15Emma Grede?

  One of the first as well.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, the first.

• 1:10:17Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  You're just like, oh, my God, like, he's just such a pioneer and a real inspiration for me.

• 1:10:24Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I was just gonna say that that's the perfect person for you when you talk about like, you know, not walking away from your values and your principles. I mean, that's the company, that's the benchmark. What are you still aspiring to do or become?

• 1:10:37Speaker 02

  So I just wrote my 2026 goals. They poured out of me. They're in a note on my phone. There's a lot for 2026. This is like a big year.

• 1:10:47Emma Grede?

  Are we scrolling? No.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  To live lightly and powerfully. And be really proud of the energy that I bring into the room.

• 1:10:57Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's a good one. Lightly and powerfully. Oof, I love that.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  So we do our goals as a family and we sat down and Rosie's five and as she says, I can't read. And I was like, I was like, girl, I got you. I was like, I'll, I'll write down your goals for you. And I said, what's your goal? She said, be wild.

• 1:11:16Emma Grede?

  Love. That is a perfect five-year-old goal.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  And I said, I think I'm gonna take that goal, girl.

• 1:11:22Emma Grede?

  You're like, me too, me too.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  I added that on there.

• 1:11:25Emma Grede?

  That is the sweet, be wild. Yes, five-year-old Rosie, be wild.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  And Laney.

• 1:11:30Emma Grede?

  Be a wild woman, the two of you. Yeah. How br- I mean, that's so nice. First of all, I love that you do that together as a family. It's the Swedish tradition.

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  Oh, it's so good.

• 1:11:41Emma Grede?

  All right, tell me, what do you do? What is the first thing you do when you wake up?

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  I go make a matcha. I have my whole little like kind of routine. I make a homemade vanilla syrup that goes in.

• 1:11:51Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  And then I get cozy with my girls and we just cuddle on the couch for a good five, 10 minutes.

• 1:11:56Emma Grede?

  Well, that's a good start to the day. You know, I'm all about the morning ceremony with the, I want a good cup and good tea and the good lie and.

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  And you drink a black tea.

• 1:12:06Emma Grede?

  I actually have, I have tea with a little drop of milk.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:12:10Emma Grede?

  Goes like the colour of my skin. That's my favourite cup of tea. But it is ritualistic for me. It's like I want the, you know, I want that moment, that 10 minutes. Yes, the cup.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:12:21Emma Grede?

  It's all about the cup. Somebody bought me very beautiful matcha cups for, for Christmas, actually. And I was like, I just now it's like I want matcha because I have the cup. It's like, have the right setup. Congratulations to you, my darling.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:12:33Emma Grede?

  I love it. Amazing.

• 1:12:39Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favourite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. You'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Executive producer, Ashley McShan. Derek Brown. And me. Our executive producers from Odyssey. Leah Reese Dennis. Asha Saluja. Lauren Legrosso. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox. Kirk Courtney. Andrew Steele. And Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan. Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith.

• 1:13:25Emma Grede?

  Sydney Ford. My teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran. Josefina Francis. Hillary Schuff. Eric Donnelly. Kate Hutchison Rose. Tim Meekle. Shaun Cherry. And Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelt G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.