Gary Vee: The AI Opportunity Is Real — You're Just Looking at It Wrong

I spent 8 years waiting to have this conversation. Gary Vaynerchuk on whether this is actually our last chance to build wealth with AI, what he'd do if he woke up broke tomorrow, why the middle of the market is the most dangerous place to be right now, and the mindset that separates people who thrive from people who freeze. One of the most honest takes on AI, ambition, and identity I've heard. More from the Silicon Valley Girl: Follow my Newsletter: https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=video&utm_content=gary-vee-interview https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=video&utm_content=gary-vee-interview Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@SiliconValleyGirl⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@SiliconValleyGirl LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko/ X: https://x.com/siliconvalleymm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  I need everybody to hear this. The middle class will be in trouble.

• 1:03Marina Mogilko?

  Do you think it's our last chance to build wealth?

• 1:06Speaker 02

  It has the chance to create a hyper micro wealth, but I think a lot of people are gonna check out of this era.

• 1:13Marina Mogilko?

  This is Gary Vaynerchuk, serial entrepreneur, bestselling author, and early investor in Facebook, Twitter, and Uber. He predicted TikTok talking to computers and the creator economy before anyone saw it coming. And in our lifetime most unpredictable moment, I went straight to him for answers. What would you do if you have a laptop and AI?

• 1:33Speaker 02

  I would build an app that's $5 to $50 a month, make unlimited organic content, and try [BLEEP].

• 1:41Marina Mogilko?

  For me, as a person in Silicon Valley, I can totally see how Anthropic releases new lines of codes tomorrow and this business is done. Why would I start if it's already being automated?

• 1:49Speaker 02

  Because everything you learn along the way will set up your next thing. What are you gonna do? Lay down and cry? I'm asking you.

• 1:56Marina Mogilko?

  Ну что, Гарри, делаем по-русски?

• 1:58Speaker 02

  Да, по-русски.

• 1:59Marina Mogilko?

  Твоя первая интервью на русском.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Я один раз сделал.

• 2:02Marina Mogilko?

  Серьезно?

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Угу. Я один раз, в Чикаго, я был, я вышел, я не знал, и они идлили, и я просто боролся и вышел, это было довольно круто.

• 2:12Marina Mogilko?

  Ну, ты видишь, что русский, что это замечательно, я рад тебе. Да, хорошо, что на тебя осталось?

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Спасибо.

• 2:18Marina Mogilko?

  Ты уже пятьдесят, сколько ты, пятьдесят лет в Америке?

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Крайне. Сорок, нет, сорок семь.

• 2:22Marina Mogilko?

  Сорок семь.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Я приехал, когда я был три.

• 2:25Marina Mogilko?

  Я хочу говорить о AI и о том, что происходит. И, вы знаете, я смотрю на тебя уже八年了, поэтому я готовлюсь к этому интервью уже八年了. И что я заметил о тебе, это что ты настолько многое находишь. Я помню, что ты предсказывал TikTok, и ты причиной, почему я начал TikTok. У меня три миллиона followers там, потому что ты была такая, ты должен начать TikTok. Когда ты смотришь на эту эру AI, ты думаешь, что это наша последняя шанса построить богатство прямо сейчас?

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Это прекрасная вопрос. Вы знаете, одна из вещей, которую я пытаюсь делать, когда я говорю о вещах публично, я потратил много времени на это, и я видел индикаторы реальной человеческой действий, что показывает мне инсight на earliest preview of something I think will be at scale. Поэтому это почему многие из моих предсказов работают. Это как когда я говорю о нашем братьев, которые женят роботы AI. Ну, это уже происходит в Японии.

• 3:18Marina Mogilko?

  Это и есть.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  И поэтому, для меня, это не длинный путь, это просто что-то, что происходит в части мира, что, ясно, для меня, это человеческая психология, и поэтому оно будет работать. Ваш вопрос интересен, потому что моя интуиция, это имеет шанс создать хипер-микро-богатство, фрагментация, вы знаете, кодинг виб, и все это вещи, и вещи, которые мы уже видим, да? Дети, building out products very quickly and having success. На другой стороне, вы также говорите, ясно, о супер-скалерах, да? Когда ты смотришь на что Meta и Microsoft и Google, как самые большие компании в Китае, как вы могли увидеть сценарий, где 12 или 13 компаний.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Мой ужас, это экономия и поведение потребителей такая большая, что, да, будут 25 компаний, которые занимаются таким большим, да? Ты смотришь, вы знаете, Adobe и Salesforce и ServiceNow, компании SaaS. Я имею в виду, компании SaaS, ясно... Coming out of an incredible 30-year run and now walking into a potential buzzsaw. You know, I saw a headline yesterday, I don't know if it's true, I mean, just, you know, I was busy yesterday, but X, maybe it was Claude, Claude just made, gave everybody a Bloomberg terminal for free. You know, like, those kind of headlines seem very real to me, they seem really natural.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  But it's almost like Meta or Anthropic or, or someone else is going to eat up more Bloomberg and ServiceNow and Salesforce, like, it's like the Battle of the Titans.

• 4:55Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  And then over here, on the scraps, well, the scraps actually might be quite big. And it might be a social media-like era where all of us become, literally all of us, become vibe coders. Like, just like I thought, one of my great predictions in 2008 was everybody would have a social media account. When it did not seem like that.

• 5:18Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Is everyone going to have a mini app that is monetizable? Because they themselves were able to build it, not need a developer for 500,000? I don't know, I think, I, so, I, I believe that the middle will be in trouble. And the middle might be a VaynerMedia, you know? But I have a feeling the, the separation of the middle class of entrepreneurship and could be real. The difference is, the long tail could be quite at scale, maybe even then creating this middle, you know, this middle class, I don't know, if you put a gun to my head, I would say, no, it's not our last chance.

• 6:00Marina Mogilko?

  Okay, so we have a few years, right?

• 6:03Speaker 02

  I think so, and again, let me take another counter just to build on this conversation. If it is our last chance, and 79 companies make all the money, governments will get massively involved.

• 6:13Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  And like, it may lead to a Nirvana, like, you know, back to where we come from and where we're sitting. Could extreme capitalism mean a different version of socialism?

• 6:27Marina Mogilko?

  Coming back to the roots.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Could a world where there's only 100 companies that make 80% of the monies? Would they then be forced to subsidize all the displaced workers? Do we live in a three day work week environment with the other four days subsidized from the companies that we work from? Do we have more leisure? Do we get more into the arts and family? And do we have side projects that make these micro pennies? I don't know.

• 6:52Marina Mogilko?

  So what if tomorrow, everything crashes for you like VaynerMedia? You lose your followers. What would you do if you have a laptop and AI?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  If I lost my reputation and my personal brand, but I kept my knowledge of how to make content on social? I would build an app that's $5 to $50 a month. And I would make unlimited organic content on LinkedIn, Twitter, TikTok and try to get customers.

• 7:19Marina Mogilko?

  If you want to stay ahead in the AI era, I bring you the people who see what's coming next every week. Subscribe to this channel so you don't miss it. That's a very interesting approach. I just talked to Bill Gurley, who's like a legendary investor. And he told me, you can't even imagine how many websites are there that are just like password photos? They charge you $6. And yes, AI can do that, but because we're still so used to going to a website and paying and they're making tens of thousands of dollars a month. And we just don't realize it. Cause for me, as a person in Silicon Valley, right? I'm looking at all the businesses and I'm like, okay, I can totally see how Anthropic releases new lines of codes tomorrow. And this business is done.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  It's not how consumers work. He's right.

• 7:57Marina Mogilko?

  Exactly.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  It's not how it works. And in fact, I would argue what I do for a living and what I'm obsessed with actually explodes in this next era. It's all going to be about brand because you have to discover it. There in 30 years, by default, somebody will be like, oh, let me go to the main AI thing and I don't need to. But there is going to be a long period of time here.

• 8:17Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, so there's this long tail. We still need to adjust. We're as humans, we take some time to adjust to new reality. So.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  When you're Silicon Valley girl and you even know who Bill Gurley is, you live in a different world than the 90s. Nine point nine percent of people on earth who've never heard of Bill.

• 8:33Marina Mogilko?

  And that's opportunity for everyone who's listening.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 8:36Marina Mogilko?

  Because transitioning to that era, together with small companies, small businesses, other people educating them. I feel like there is a lot of potential there.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  When you layer what I've been obsessed with about the last 20 years, which is there is a advertising and brand building ecosystem called social media that does not cost you money. And that's the point about AI apps. It really doesn't cost you money anymore to build something in the way that I grew up. But the fact that you can actually get awareness, that you're one TikTok away from having people know who you are and building a platform, that's intoxicating.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 9:41Speaker 04

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• 10:11Marina Mogilko?

  But do you have another worry, talking about social media, right? I see a lot of AI content and we're getting flooded with so much content, so we're competing more. But also another thing that I'm always thinking about, what if this social media platform, like, why would they pay human creators? Why would they not just, you know, generate AI creators? This is much more personalized content. It's free and they don't have to pay anyone.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Well, platforms don't pay people.

• 10:34Marina Mogilko?

  Well, some of them do.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  No, they really don't. Like Meta doesn't pay people, TikTok doesn't pay people, like they don't pay people. They, they are an open vessel that people go on and create for. And then businesses come and sit in between people that make content and people that consume content. And then businesses advertise on there or go to a creator and do a brand deal. Now, if you're saying, why would L'Oréal go to you? Like they might today versus someone that looks kind of like you, that they could even own, like a Mickey Mouse.

• 11:07Marina Mogilko?

  Exactly. And make a hundred videos versus one.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  They're going to do that. So how do you? Now, right now, there's stigma around that. And big companies are scared to go too deep into AI because there's pushback. But over the next five to 10 years, they will. Now, what they might use you for though, is you might be one of the hundred faces they use, 99 of which they own the IP. But you're going to be able to do this. I think the rise of analog value is going to be extraordinary. So we're sitting in this world right now where people, a lot of people behind the scenes doing stuff. I think, you know, for me, and I think you know this about me, I'm, I'm comfortable and good in both environments. Both behind in, with my thumbs and right here. That person's going to do incredibly well.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  The person that's very comfortable with analog hosting a conference, having 25 people in this room right now while we do this. Right? Brands are going to find incredible value in the analog world. Real life restaurants, real life studio podcasts, like real life is going to explode. We're going to live in this barbell world, extreme technology, but extremely scaled. What we take for vantage, us four is like, that's normal, like being outside, like a pop-up shop. You know, going to a sporting event, they're going to continue to increase in value. And so, yeah, you're going to be, like, the game's going to change. But I remind influencers, influencers are crying to me quite a bit right now.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  It's like, Gary, AI did it. I'm like, you took money from real celebrities. Twenty years ago, none of us existed and all of that money went to Jennifer Aniston. If you were on Shark Tank, you were the only business people. I, I, Gary Vee, do not have a television show. I get comped for speaking fees and appearance fees greater than most of the Sharks. Right? That would have never been possible. So the world turns, shit changes.

• 13:02Marina Mogilko?

  We just get too comfortable in our space.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Well, what's funny is when we're young and we're disrupting something, we like it. But when we're the one that gets disrupted, we don't like it.

• 13:11Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah. How are you adjusting your social media strategy?

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Nothing because of what we just talked about. To me, I stay in, my last book I wrote was called Day Trading Attention. I live in that environment. So if AI wasn't even happening right now, I'd still be focused on what I'm focused on. Long form written content, so much more Substack, Beehive, LinkedIn, X, longer form content. So I hired two full-time writers on my staff, journalists, who basically will listen to this entire interview and he's going to come up with 15 to 20 follow-up questions, which is why I needed someone who had a journalistic background. Because if it was just transcribing, AI, that.

• 13:47Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  And then we will create a first-person article about the barbell theory, why analog is on the rise, right? So a lot more written content.

• 13:56Marina Mogilko?

  Interesting. And I feel like it's becoming so much easier. Because I remember a couple of years ago, I met, four years ago, I met someone from LinkedIn. And they were like, you should be on LinkedIn. I'm like, I can't write. So I'm so bad at that. And then ChatGPT came around and my LinkedIn's growing like crazy.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I've always had ghostwriting infrastructure for my books because I've never been able to write. And, but I've always wanted it. You know, it's funny, every book I've written, everyone with my written content, people come up to me, they're like, man, it sounds so much like you. I'm like, it is fully me because it is truly transcribed from my words. I don't write differently than I talk because it's just the transcription. But, so writing content, I'm incredibly focused on being, and this, I'm pushing my team right now on this, on just being remarkable on every platform. Like obsession to how to win Snapchat spotlight. Obsession to understand how to be great at YouTube Shorts to make sure. Where I'm feeding the L L Ms of Gemini with my content.

• 14:51Marina Mogilko?

  Why shorts, not long form?

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Both, but I think, but shorts allows me to pump out a lot of how to, why, right? There's a little bit of a different thing there. So just, just hyper fixation on the craft of the written word, the images, testing new formats. I, I call, I call it pack platforms. So I need to know everything that's happening on Substack, X, Pinterest, Instagram, Tik Tok, Shorts, all that, that's algorithms within those. What kind of content, what format, what kind of, is it a reel? Is it a full, like with, on LinkedIn, is it right now? Imagery is doing incredibly well. Video crushed last year. It's declining a little bit this month, like just.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  So what's the algorithm within the platforms doing? And then C, culture, like what is happening in popular culture across everything? Like the, you know, America has long in popular culture fed from black culture. Now we're seeing Hispanic culture. We're seeing Korean culture impact so much of U S pop culture. Slang terms, quarter zip, La Boo Boo's in then out. The Starbucks bear Tumblr for three weeks, then not Stanley cups, then not.

• 16:07Marina Mogilko?

  I love your fashion when you're talking about this, like I see.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Well, cause pop cold, you know, baggy, baggy pants for guy, like pop culture is relevance. Right? I can make one reference in here of something that's happening in popular culture. And then for somebody who's listening, if they're also into the same thing I'm into, immediately we are connected, right? We are connected by being born in the same place, like people look for, we're tribal. We love sports, religion is because the way it is, cultures. We have, you and I met immediate, we're just from the same place. It is what it is. But by the way, when I walk outside right now, if somebody's wearing a Jets hat, they're immediately my brother.

• 16:46Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  So, you know, I think pop culture, especially in B to B environments is very misunderstood. But even B to C environments, the biggest consumer brands I work with in my day to day, I, I think they underestimate pop culture.

• 17:01Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, even creators, like I'm talking to so many big brands and they've never advertised with creators and I'm just surprised. So you're saying you're not running faster because of AI, you're just doing whatever you're doing.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  I'm saying that I don't have a different social media strategy right now because of AI per se. If I wake up from a coma right now in seven years and everything's different, it will not take me long to get back on the bike and be successful because I'll just spend a hundred days paying attention to where is everyone paying attention to? Oh my God, AI changed everything, we're back to reading newspapers? Okay, I'm gonna make newspaper ads. Like, it's not complicated. The thesis is simple. Understanding and how to be good at the thesis is hard.

• 17:42Marina Mogilko?

  Has your hiring changed because of AI? How many people do you have now?

• 17:45Speaker 02

  You know, it's funny you say that. We at Vayner, so I have many different companies. But the biggest one I run is VaynerX, VaynerMedia, and there's Chuck Media and the Tamara Group. Three very large advertising agencies, all of which do something pretty similar. We're exploding. And I'm having this very, very challenging game. I mean, I was in Seattle yesterday, as you heard before we went on here. I met with the three biggest companies that are HQ'd there. All of which are like, we want to do more with you, we want to do a lot with you. Two that are already working with us, a third that wants to jam with us.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  So the demand of customers is exploding. I still need an extraordinary amount of human beings because it's a human-based business. Yes, I understand that AI can do the job of, it is not lost on me that a hundred people can now do the work of 400 people. I'm just worried about the output wars of the future. What if you're competing with somebody that has 400 and you have 400? You cut 200 and they still have 400. And in our world, you and I, we're like, ah, we're outflanking them. We're gonna be better, we're gonna make more EBITDA, we're gonna... But what if they weaponize those 400 people with the same tools that we weaponize our 200 people? In my world, advertising, if my 400 people now make 27,000 ads...

• 19:03Speaker 02

  And your 200 people make 16,000 ads for whatever human element is there. And I understand it doesn't work that way. But there, this concept of is AI a shield and a sword and a gun versus rocks in a war? Right? You would think 200 will beat 400. But what if the 400 also have shields, sword? Like, and so there's something here that I haven't fully figured out. I'm definitely being cautious. We are definitely first and foremost attacking things that do not have value. For example, if you're a project manager at VaynerMedia and you're sole, because you know, every project manager comes in different shapes and sizes.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  But if you're the kind of project manager who only takes notes, like that is how you'd, well, that person has already been kind of smoked out and asked to do more.

• 19:58Marina Mogilko?

  Was there something that you transformed with AI within your team that blew your mind? You're like, oh, my God.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  I, my mind has not been blown since kind of the, you know, I had a lot of friends in Silicon Valley talking that machine learning was getting better and better. And I was like, maybe I'm impressed on how fast everything is happening. But I'm in a point where like, yes.

• 20:22Marina Mogilko?

  It's normal for you now.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  To me, basically, here's where my head's at. I'm going to take my phone and be like, build this app. I want it to do this. Enter done. So if I'm already there, everything in between is just a step to that. That's where I think we're going.

• 20:33Marina Mogilko?

  Anything you transformed in your process? Or you just started executing by yourself? I mean, like building apps?

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Probably the biggest thing that happened to me is I am an anthropologist, pop culture strategist. So having that level of thinking power with me, that I used to rely on search and like just digging around the internet. That was profound.

• 20:57Marina Mogilko?

  I feel, I feel the same. When I was flying here yesterday, I was playing with Claude skills, which is like a skill that you can build that is accused for itself. It was preparing me for this interview. And I was like, this is fascinating. I feel like I'm a superhuman with all these tools. Cause perplexity computer every day sends me stocks to buy Claude skills, does my research. It's just fascinating.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I also think it's, it feels like a superhero today, the same way I felt with the iPhone. That first year with the iPhone. So I bought the iPhone the day it came out. Especially in New York, because of Wall Street and any big city, there was BlackBerry obsession. And I felt like a superhero that first year because I could go on the internet for real. Not like the way the BlackBerry people could. And that gave me a hyper advantage. Like I would go and do, at that point I was already out about a little bit. I would go and do something and I could look something up before I like went on stage or went into a meeting. And that was like powerful in a way that, you know, I didn't have to do with my laptop, even though that used to have that. It was just so fast.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  You feel like a superhero with Claude, perplexity, GPT, Metas infrastructure is starting to get very impressive. To remind everybody who's listening, your grandmother in the office did not have internet, did not have AI, did not have social media, didn't have an office to your point, did not have mobile computing, did not have computer in office, did not have internet. Like, yeah, I mean, this is just technology.

• 22:27Marina Mogilko?

  But do you feel that we're in this period of time and we are like 1% that are grasping technology? Do we need to run faster to make the most out of it?

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Well, it depends on the human ambition. I mean, I think a lot of people are gonna check out of this era. Let's talk about Silicon Valley. I have a lot of Silicon Valley friends who were psycho. All in, going so hard during early Web 2, 2005, 6, 7, 8, blogging, podcasting, and then social, who made enough money and are in a different part of their life now, who have given a shit about AI and blockchain.

• 23:00Marina Mogilko?

  But somebody who wants to build wealth. I feel like this is just such an opportunity and it's unique for the next 10 years. I feel like we have this year, and then it's basic for everyone.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  I don't think, I think that makes sense that you think that, and I understand that. I think you and I will see each other in 10 years and be like, man, you were right. It's just that as much as it looks like AI creates a winner takes all world, I have a funny feeling it's not going to.

• 23:25Marina Mogilko?

  Okay.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Because don't forget, there is the human, like, there's, it's gonna take too much time, like, you know what people don't do well? Hang with me for a second, let's play this game. Let's, let's take that point. Let's say 10 companies won everything. Do you literally think that 8 billion people are gonna be like, yeah, that's awesome?

• 23:44Marina Mogilko?

  No.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:46Marina Mogilko?

  And governments won, yeah.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  So, that's it.

• 23:48Marina Mogilko?

  It's just funny to hear this from you, because you're the one like, hustle, do this, like.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  People don't like to take my sentence in its totality. Hustle, go hard if you complain and are a crybaby, and you don't realize that accountability can help you. Hustle if you like it so much that you would do it if it was free. I would build businesses if it was free. Meaning like, it made me, like, it's my joy. I build companies the way people like to go golfing and cooking and watching movies. It's more fun to me. You know, it's so funny, we put on a pedestal, someone who's a philosopher or a great reader, someone who reads books all day in their rooms, a real thinker and writes, oh wow, so noble. That's what I do. I just do something with it, on the other side, you know what I mean?

• 24:37Speaker 02

  So, I think hustle, if it makes you happy, one could argue that the extreme opposite of hustle is what I also do. I mean, the more you know me... The more you would realize I'm incredibly detached from my career or my, or my public persona. I'll make it very blunt. I don't give a about Gary Vee or my Vayner empire. I do not think it makes me better than. Who cares if I'm good at business? Some people are good at skiing. Some people are good at singing. Some people are good at writing. Like, it just happens to be something I'm good at. I have my self-worth wrapped up into who I show up as, as a human to people in my life, that I'm a nice guy, that when I-

• 25:21Marina Mogilko?

  Was that a switch ever in your life?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Absolutely not. Never. It was ingrained in me by my mother and my circumstances in my DNA.

• 25:30Marina Mogilko?

  What would you say to someone who thinks their worth is tied to their results? And that makes them very anxious in this era?

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Correct. Um, I would tell them that, first of all, it depends on what results, right? You know, if you're saying financial results?

• 25:43Marina Mogilko?

  I don't know. I'm in Silicon Valley.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Great.

• 25:45Marina Mogilko?

  Your company's valuation.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  I would say I understand. It's a very common human trait. I would also say that almost everybody I know on earth that is wrapped up in that metrics mindset has incredible anxiety. And anxiety sucks.

• 25:59Marina Mogilko?

  How do you separate yourself from it? But I feel like it's easier to say for you because you have all the millions of followers already and millions of dollars.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  You're saying that because you don't know me. If my friends that have known me my whole life will tell you that I have the millions of followers and dollars because I've always been this way.

• 26:16Marina Mogilko?

  That's the reason. It's not the-

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Right. My detachment because I have an incredible relationship with losing.

• 26:23Speaker 00

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• 27:25Speaker 02

  I like it.

• 27:26Marina Mogilko?

  What do you tell yourself when you lose?

• 27:29Speaker 02

  That I sucked and that was funny and let's not try to do that again. And like, what can we do? Like, I love the challenge. You know, I was the kid when I, when I was losing in sports or ping pong or pool. Like, I loved playing again. I loved playing again. I loved playing again. I didn't think me losing in front of my sister or mom meant that I was lesser than. I played outside of this short-term validation framework. And I also was incredibly structured to not struggle with peer pressure in high school and in college, when so many of my contemporaries did everything for validation amongst their peers, I did not. And that was just tremendous parenting, luck of the draw with DNA and the circumstances I grew up with.

• 28:09Marina Mogilko?

  What, what are you telling your kids?

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Well, they're not me. I'm telling, I'm trying to leave deposits on that, but they're growing up in a very different environment. Now luckily, my children share a lot of mine and my ex-wife's DNA and are also a little bit cocooned. Like, my 17-year-old daughter does not live her life for her friends or boys' attention. So she's cooking with gas. My 13-year-old son also, he's, I would have said three years ago, I'm like, hmm, let's, he's already starting to... Like really develop this. And so, you know, look, DNA is a real thing. And then when you have parents that are conscious and are pushing you on the right things, the only core thing that for sure they have different is environment.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  I don't have this ideology for my children to be exactly like me or just like me, or they need to be hungry like I was. I want them to be happy and lack anxiety like I was. And that comes into this, not anything else, this.

• 29:11Marina Mogilko?

  Any tip how to teach that? I have a four-year-old and a six-year-old, and I feel like they really rely on what other kids think of them. What do you, what do you tell your kids?

• 29:20Speaker 02

  I pounded that narrative into my kid verbally.

• 29:23Marina Mogilko?

  You just tell them like you.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  I think it's like, as young as that, I would tell my children like, people making fun of you, people saying you're awesome means nothing. How do you feel? What do you like?

• 29:36Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, and learning not to react to positive things and negative.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  The reason I can deal is I today have 95% validation, 5% skepticism and pushback. It's the, it's the goat emojis in my Instagram posts that I have to not pay attention to. Not the you suck Gary, or you got lucky, or you, you know, you're a snake oil. So like, to me, it's not hearing the accolades. I'm telling you that that's where the lack of anxiety comes from. I don't need to have a house, or a plane, or a third home, or a Nobel Peace Prize, or 40 million followers, or an exit to impress Bill Gurley. I don't need that. It is not what my life is about.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  I like it, but I feel like I'm an athlete who wants to be great on the field. But off the field, that is not the man that I think I am.

• 30:30Marina Mogilko?

  I feel like everybody should learn this type of mindset, especially now. Cause also I have this question from my team.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Please.

• 30:37Marina Mogilko?

  Who read your piece, AI splits people into architects and masons.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:41Marina Mogilko?

  And half of my team thinks they're masons.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  But they have the ability to become an architect.

• 30:46Marina Mogilko?

  So how do you deploy that mindset when you know you're losing right now? Cause AI is replacing you. But how do you go to the next step of your career utilizing this mindset? That I don't need external approval and this mistake of failure isn't me's.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  How do you lose 25 pounds when you know you're not feeling great? I'm asking you.

• 31:09Marina Mogilko?

  Well, it's either or. You die sooner than if you don't.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's that outcome, but how do you do it? I'm not saying what the outcome is, and you're right about that.

• 31:18Marina Mogilko?

  Like, I don't know, I don't have this problem, so I can't relate. My husband has this problem. He loves sugar.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too.

• 31:24Marina Mogilko?

  So, yeah, he just feels worse. And for him, it's stopping sugar completely. That's what works.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 31:31Marina Mogilko?

  Like, completely.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  But, but it's hard.

• 31:33Marina Mogilko?

  It is.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Like, I go through patches where I also cut it out. So I'm your husband. I have the same issue. Sugar is the real bane of my existence. To me, let me tell you how I stopped drinking soda for every beverage 13 years ago. I also, I hired a full-time person to, literally 12 years ago. There would have been a man in here right now to make sure I didn't take a sip.

• 31:57Marina Mogilko?

  Really?

• 31:58Speaker 02

  For one year. I took an extreme measure of babysitting to get me into the discipline. He suffocated me to then get into patterns, to get into the discipline, and then it became my norm. If you are a mason and you want to become an architect, you can cry about it. You can stop and start. We all stop and start in health, in wellness, in work. But you need for it to become your actual pattern. It becomes your norm. To your point, sometimes it's cold, but it starts here first. Like, if I had that whole team right now, I'd be like, listen, you can do it. You have to believe that. If you don't, what are we gonna do? Like, it first starts mentally, and then it starts physically.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Like, you need to start using these tools to help you think better, to put in the work. You need to start reading. You need to start doing this. You need to start hanging out with these people. Like, you need to start taking from your leisure, which you're using to get an escape from your concern, and you need to allocate some of your leisure time into more work. You have to go to the gym and eat better. That starts with your mind, but then it has to happen with your actions. And then you just have to stay into that conversation. Like, this is staying in a conversation. The reason the world is so tight right now is we've stayed in a negative conversation for 10 years. But like, my newsfeed is not politics.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  My newsfeed is not telling me that the world is going to [BLEEP]. My newsfeed doesn't tell me that my parents had it better than me. Like, you're in control of your algorithm, you're in control of the people that you spend time with. Look at all the people that are listening to this right now. These people chose to follow you and listen to you. Some are here because this is the first time they're listening to you because they follow me. Knowing enough of your platform and definitely knowing my platform, these are people that are choosing offense. These are people that are choosing optimism. These are people that are choosing to try to figure it out. That same person could have a twin sibling who right now, we're on a, this is a Saturday morning that you and I are filming this, who might be watching Netflix this morning, which is lovely and you should have leisure, but why are they watching it?

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Are they watching it because they have a little side dish of leisure and enjoyment? That's beautiful. But if it's their main course and they're doing it because they had an anxious week and they're devastated that they have to go back Monday, now I'm concerned. Does that make sense?

• 34:20Marina Mogilko?

  Totally.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Like, to me, leisure and escapism needs to be side dishes and a moose pooches, not the main meal.

• 34:28Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  When it's the main meal, you are escaping your actual life that isn't going well.

• 34:34Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  And that's what I think.

• 34:36Marina Mogilko?

  Gary just told me that AI is splitting people into architects who build things and masons who do things. And most people don't even know which side they're on yet. Future Proof is my weekly newsletter, where I break down exactly what architects are doing right now that masons aren't. The tools, the moves, the mindset shifts. Link is in the description, please subscribe, it's absolutely free, and I talk about a lot of practical things there. Let's talk about people who are watching who are immigrants, because I have a lot of immigrants watching. You came to America at age three, I came when I was 25. For someone who arrives today, what is the first thing they should be doing?

• 35:14Speaker 02

  I think it's a framework, it's funny we used curiosity, I think it's a framework of self-awareness, humility, and curiosity. So self-awareness is if you come from Guatemala, Poland, you know, South Korea, and you're here in the US, or you're, or by the way, you're an American who's deciding like, ah, I don't, you know, one of those people, which you're allowed, and you're moving to Sweden, or you're going from India to England, or England to Argentina. No matter what shift you're making, a lot of people listening here will move to other countries because of jobs. Their wife got a, is, their wife's the big executive, they're the entrepreneur, and she just got a big job, and now you're moving to Portugal.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  When you are new, in an entirely new country, immigrant, I think there's three things to rely on. Number one is self-awareness. Who are you? Right? When I came over, you know, the, I was a kid, but the older generation, these people were engineers in the Soviet Union, and they were literally cleaning toilets. That was the second part, humility. You know, humility is a superpower. You know, I'm aware that my humility does not show up on the internet, because that is not the way I communicate. But I will tell you that in my real life, behind the scenes, it is one of the beacons of my success. I've never gotten away from the kid that immigrated, like, with all the stuff on paper,

• 36:38Speaker 02

  I still don't think I'm better than, I don't think I am, have earned the ability to not put in the work, or to be gracious, or to be kind, or whatever it might be. So, I would say self-awareness. Who are you? What are you good at? You have to then see if that's available to you in the country. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. Nuclear engineers from the Soviet, and but literally had to clean, you know, toilets, because America wasn't just giving them jobs, and then they had to build themselves up, and they owned a pharmacy later on, you know how it all worked out, right? Humility. I know that you were the big dog in India, but maybe here in Poland, that doesn't work, or you were amazing, you were a good creator in America, but now for some reason you live in Indonesia, and you don't have that many followers in Indonesia.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Humility, right? And then back to curiosity. For me, I would just, again, face got ripped off like that John Travolta, John Travolta, Nicolas Cage movie, reputation lost. I find myself in Peru. This is where I'm going. Who am I? I have good people skills. I have, I have work ethic. I know how to buy and sell. I know consumer behavior. Next. Humility. I'll go work at a store. As a cashier. If I have nothing, if I have nothing. And then curiosity. At night, after I get back from the store, what's going on here in Peru? Like, where's my angle? What can I do? What can I sell? So that is my advice. That emotional framework, and then you have to act on it. Ego is just pure insecurity.

• 38:08Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Ego is just pure insecurity. Posturing, trying to be the big dog. That just means you're scared. That means you're

• 38:16Marina Mogilko?

  And that places limits on what you're doing because you're trying to feed your ego versus built something.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're just, you, you are not good internally. Thus, you must render your peacocking to trick everyone around you.

• 38:28Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  And by the way, I'm not mad at that. Do you know that I'm not mad at people that are like that? I'm sad about it. I wish they could like themselves for all. Do you know how many shortcomings I have? Plenty. We all do.

• 38:42Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah. Okay, if someone's watching right now and they're like, okay, I'm gonna work on all of this, but I really wanna build in this AI era. What do you think is the biggest opportunity right now?

• 38:53Speaker 02

  It goes back to the last question. There's a million of them. I just don't know the person that's listening right now. For example, if you're overly charismatic, the biggest opportunity is to go live streaming on the internet and then drive all of that audience to an AI app that you built that's 10 bucks.

• 39:09Marina Mogilko?

  Before it's automated by AI. Because have you seen in China how they're doing this live? They, they just basically put an item in front of the camera and it's automated and there is this AI person already wearing it or showing it. It was crazy.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  Including, including the influencer is AI. It's it's me and I put your face on me and I'm a woman selling makeup.

• 39:29Marina Mogilko?

  Crazy. But like when I think about this, like, why would I start if it's already being automated?

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Because everything you learn along the way will set up your next thing. What are you gonna do? Lay down and cry?

• 39:39Marina Mogilko?

  I don't know, find something else. Because I'm talking a lot of entrepreneurs. They're in this stage. They're like, oh, I really want to do this. But then, yeah, it's just gonna be taken away by a big company in a week.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  You're too young for this, but in 2005, 6, 7, 8, 9, in Silicon Valley, the same thing was being said. Why would I start this? Google's gonna copy it. You're just you're just talking to fake entrepreneurs.

• 40:00Marina Mogilko?

  Okay.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Real entrepreneurs are willing to lose. Real entrepreneurs know that the two years they work on something that Claude [BLEEP] up was two years of them working on something that sets up their next thing. Real entrepreneurs don't know how to do anything else.

• 40:21Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  Real entrepreneurs don't lay down and cry. Real entrepreneurs don't say, [BLEEP] I'll just go get a job. Real entrepreneurs are real entrepreneurs.

• 40:28Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, that goes back to knowing who you are.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  Correct. And by the way, let me say something right now. This is actually a beautiful segue. I need everybody to hear this. If you're listening right now and you think you're an entrepreneur, but these last three minutes of this talk are triggering some weird feelings.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  Do you know how awesome it was to be the number seven at Facebook? Do you know how incredible it was to be the number nine at Tesla? Do you know how epic it is to be number 34 at LinkedIn, Microsoft? I mean, like.

• 40:59Marina Mogilko?

  How cool it is to be a podcaster.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Correct. Like, this concept that, like, again, I grew up, entrepreneurship wasn't even a word. Being a businessman was not cool. And then I ironically was part of the movement that kind of made this thing cool. But I have been talking for 10 years of like, please, it's only cool if you are that. It's not cool to be a teacher if you're not a teacher. It's not cool to be, you know. It's not cool to be anything if you're not actually, you know?

• 41:30Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah. That is a good ending. And I have a few questions that are fire.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Rapid.

• 41:36Marina Mogilko?

  What are your top three favorite AI tools that you use daily?

• 41:39Speaker 02

  GPT, Claude, and honestly, the mangus is really like, like, is really, yeah, Metas. Met, like, I'm, I'm like, just a couple of weeks going in, but it's.

• 41:52Marina Mogilko?

  Do you use it for your Instagram?

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:54Marina Mogilko?

  I feel like they have access to all the data, so they can do better analytics than anyone.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 41:59Marina Mogilko?

  Okay, that's, that's a good one to work on. What's your favorite prompt?

• 42:02Speaker 02

  My favorite prompt is me intuitively feeling something that's happening in culture. Right? Uh, I'll give you one right now. Does the baggy pants movement for men have another domino to fall? Like, I will.

• 42:20Marina Mogilko?

  That's a very advanced prompt. So you know exactly what's happening and you're trying to predict what's next.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Correct. That is almost, that, almost, almost everything I'm doing is that. For me, for what I like to do professionally and personally.

• 42:33Marina Mogilko?

  Okay, college degrees in 2026, yes or no?

• 42:38Speaker 02

  For 50% of the people that are listening right now, yes, they need that degree to do the profession legally in medicine. For the most creative and entrepreneurial people, yes, if mommy and daddy paid for it. Because 18 to 22, as a full pledge vacation, to hang out with other 18 to 22 year olds is a lot of fun.

• 43:02Marina Mogilko?

  It is.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  And you will work your whole life.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  No, for 18 to 22 year olds that are taking on substantial debt, who are creative and entrepreneurial.

• 43:13Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, makes sense. One industry to stay away from?

• 43:16Speaker 02

  None. Everything's, I mean, I'm, I mean, look.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Betting your whole life to be an admin who doesn't think.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  An admin that's a mason, not an admin that's architect, bad. Admin that's architect? Huge. I'm gonna hire people that have the power of 13 admins for me, and she or he is gonna sit at the top of that, and I'm gonna pay that person a [bleep] fortune to make my life effective.

• 43:48Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah. And the last one, what's the most misunderstood thing about AI right now?

• 43:52Speaker 02

  The counter to whatever anybody's thinking. So for the people that are delusionally thinking this is the greatest thing ever, the counter of the negatives that are gonna happen, and for the people that think everyone's [bleep] in China, and perplexity, and anthropic, and America, and Russia, there's gonna be nine countries, and nine companies, and everybody else is [bleep] or out of their [bleep] minds. The counter to the extremism of what people think.

• 44:20Marina Mogilko?

  Thank you for your positivity and energy.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 44:23Marina Mogilko?

  It's really charging, right? What you're saying gives energy to Creed versus like, just lie down.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  And I think that sits, I thank you, and I want to end with this. That doesn't sit in some blind optimism, or even the great parenting that I was given. It sits in historics. It is historically true that we were scared of electricity, and it wasn't. We were historically true to get off the farms, we did so much more. Humans are great. I know we're told that we're not, but 99.99% of us are. Either neutral or great. And if I am wrong, here's why I'm this way. And if I'm wrong, I promise you, you're not gonna worry about your job. If I'm wrong, we're all dead anyway.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  So either I'm right, that you should choose practical optimism, and there's gonna be a million opportunities for you if you go insular and work on you.

• 45:18Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Or, if unfortunately I'm wrong...

• 45:22Marina Mogilko?

  Then who cares?

• 45:23Speaker 02

  I'll see you in [bleep] heaven. Like, you know, you know, like this, I mean, I don't get it. It's not practical to be pessimistic and cynical. It is not practical.

• 45:32Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah. You heard Bill Gurley's name enough times today that I think you know what's coming. In our conversation, Bill shared a mindset shift that's worth every minute of your time. I put the video right here on the screen and let me know in the comments if you came from this episode.

• 45:48Speaker 05

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• 46:17Speaker 06

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• 46:47Marina Mogilko?

  With Gary.