Why Execution Matters More Than The Right Idea with Issa Rae

Issa Rae is entering a new chapter — not from the bottom, but from experience. After disrupting modern television with shows like HBO’s Insecure, building business across multiple industries, and creating some of the most culturally resonant work of the last decade, Issa sits down with Emma for a reflective conversation about power, execution, and what it really means to build something that lasts. Issa isn’t into chasing momentum. She’s moving discernment— navigating the industry on her own terms and only committing to work she genuinely believes in. In this episode, Issa opens up about: Why ideas are meaningless without execution The difference between visibility and real power What it means to “prove yourself again” — even at the top How she decides what not to do in this phase of her career Why money equals creative freedom, not validation The discipline of saying no, protecting her voice, and building on her own terms Her desire to continue to make people’s favorite content. Issa also reflects on leadership, ownership, and the responsibility that comes with influence — especially in an industry that feels like it’s regressing. This conversation is for anyone navigating a new chapter, resisting comfort, or learning that longevity requires a different kind of courage. What resonated most with you from Issa’s journey — her discipline, her clarity, or her refusal to rush? Share your thoughts in the comments and subscribe for more honest conversations on Aspire.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  So before we get into today's conversation, I want to share something I'm really excited about. My new book, Start With Yourself, which comes out April 14th. And to celebrate this spring, you can meet me in a city near you for the Start With Yourself tour. It's a series of live conversations where we'll go deeper into the ideas from the book. Start With Yourself is ultimately about self-leadership, and it's for those that want power, money, careers and families. And it's about what it really takes to succeed as a woman in business and build something meaningful. Tickets are on sale 10 a.m. local Friday, February 13th. All the details are in my newsletter, and if you're not subscribed, you can sign up at emagreed.com. I want to help you rethink how you show up in your work or your life, and I'd love for you to join me in person.

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• 2:02Emma Grede?

  Issa, thank you so much for being here on Aspire today. I'm really happy to have you.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

• 2:09Emma Grede?

  I'm a huge fan, I have to say. I feel like I've watched every single Insecure episode, maybe five times over, like, no, I'm in.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  You know it better than I do. I thank you for that.

• 2:21Emma Grede?

  No, I really do. I was dedicated to that show in such a big way. But I really wanted you to come here today, and I have to say, I've been hand in your team since I started this. I was like, Issa, Issa, Issa, because, listen, I follow you. I've been tracking you, and it feels to me like you are building somewhat of an empire. And I feel like people think they know you. They think they know exactly what you're up to. But I wanted to ask you, when you look at this chapter of your life, how would you describe it right now?

• 2:51Speaker 02

  You're catching me at such a weird time.

• 2:54Emma Grede?

  Tell me about that.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  I feel like, it feels like a new beginning in so many ways. I know, I know, I know. But bear with me, like, I've been with, you know, the same company for the last 10 years. Maybe Insecure came out in 2016, yeah.

• 3:11Emma Grede?

  So that long ago.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it came out in 2016, the end of 2016. And now, like, I've moved on to a new home with Paramount and...

• 3:21Emma Grede?

  Congratulations, by the way. That was a big deal out there.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's really, really exciting. And I'm still, you know, I love HBO. I'm still doing business with them. But like, it just feels like new opportunities, new horizons, and I'm kind of in this like humble period where I'm like proving myself again. So the chapter feels like, yeah, new beginnings is the right thing. And I was telling the company that it feels like a show and prove season in a new way.

• 3:47Emma Grede?

  You still feel like you have to prove yourself?

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I'm happy to. Like, I want to prove myself in new... In new mediums, I want to prove myself in the the work that I do. I've been writing a lot more and also just kind of taking step back, a step back in certain areas. So I'm just reevaluating where I am, but in an exciting way. And just trying not to allow myself to feel too comfortable with the direction that I've taken, you know?

• 4:17Emma Grede?

  Is that like out of creative necessity? Or is that because you're so ambitious?

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Both, yeah. When you say necessity, that resonates with me specifically just because like I, I don't want to feel stuck in any one place. And I don't want to feel like I'm doing the same thing over again. I love a routine, but I don't want to feel like it's work and I know what to expect every day.

• 4:42Emma Grede?

  Yeah, fair enough. I mean, your work has always had a very particular and specific point of view. And I guess my question to you is like, how important has the sense of ownership been to you?

• 4:54Speaker 02

  So important because, you know, like ownership, you kind of get to dictate your your path. And you get to, you run the show, I'm a bossy bitch. Like I've been that way since I was young and I don't mean it in like the Kalise way, like I'm bossy. I mean, like I need to feel like I'm in control of my own destiny. And ownership allows that.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  I hate, especially now, especially how volatile the industry is. And it doesn't kind of know what it wants to be and who it's serving. I'm very certain of that. And to be able to to own that narrative and own what I make and own that lane is really important to me.

• 5:33Emma Grede?

  I want to kind of take it back a little bit and understand what like, what made you the woman that you are today? So kind of going back to your childhood, I wonder like what part of the little girl is still inside you now? That little girl growing up?

• 5:51Speaker 02

  The sixth grade girl is very much in there. In the sixth grade, I don't know about you, did you ever have an awkward phase in your life?

• 5:58Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I had an awkward phase. You think I grew up with this glam on this stage?

• 6:03Speaker 02

  So the sixth grade me.

• 6:04Emma Grede?

  I grew into these lips. I had to grow into this head.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Well, girls say that 11 year old is in me and I think it's just. There's just an awareness and you know that like any part, any insecurity that remains, any discomfort that I associate with the little girl me. But then the imaginative side where you're just like, that person thought anything was possible. That person was like, just wait till I grow up. And I still feel like, just wait till I grow up, even though, you know, I'm, I'm grown. But yeah, in some ways I miss not having that fear. I miss not having any expectations, but my own. And yeah, like I, I like to play and have a good time.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Though recently I've, I've been so, oh, I don't know. I don't know what's up with me right now.

• 6:57Emma Grede?

  What, what is up with you?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  I know. Tell me. Diagnose me.

• 7:01Emma Grede?

  Give me the problems. Like what's happening in that head of yours? I feel like you're on top of the world. If I was diagnosing you, I'd be like, you know, she's just sitting back, looking pretty, with the deals flowing in and the offers happening and you know, looking back at her work and I did that thing.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  That's very much it, but I also feel like there's something missing that I haven't put my finger on yet.

• 7:21Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:23Emma Grede?

  That's interesting.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:25Emma Grede?

  You really are ambitious. You feel like it's a work thing or it's like a personal thing?

• 7:27Speaker 02

  It might be personal. I feel like the work thing I feel good about. It's definitely on the personal side. And I think I'm wrapping, because that is a thing. Oh, I think I just cracked it. Thank you so much. You helped. I feel like I have been so ambitious on the work side and a lot of those things I feel like I'm achieving and then I haven't put as much focus on my personal side in the same way that I should and want to. And that has been an intention this year. So that balance and trying to figure that out and juggle that is something I've been like, oh, I don't do it well. I don't get, who cares? But now I actually care. Whenever someone asks me, like, how do you juggle your work life and your personal life? I'm like, I don't, I don't. I don't know how to.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  And even hearing you talk about like your, your process when you go home, like you're, you have this family that you're able to tend to. And I'm, I'm just like, I don't know what that is yet, what I'm, what I'm, what I'm striving for on the personal side yet, but I'll figure it out.

• 8:26Emma Grede?

  I'm sure you'll figure it out. Do you feel like you want to be a mom?

• 8:29Speaker 02

  I, I do. I do. I do. But I, only if it's. If it's if it's meant for me.

• 8:38Emma Grede?

  Yeah. No, I feel that so deeply.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  I don't wanna force it. Like, if I were to find out right now that I was.

• 8:46Emma Grede?

  This second.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  I'd be like.

• 8:47Emma Grede?

  So we have a surprise for you.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  If I were to find out right now that I was pregnant, I'd be like, oh, no, I'm not ready yet. But in the future, yes.

• 8:59Emma Grede?

  No, and listen, I feel that and understand it deeply. I think it's kind of amazing that you admit that. Because as an ambitious woman, I mean, listen, I feel like I spent my entire twenties trying not to get pregnant. I was just like, keep every baby away from me, right? It was like. Like this.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:18Emma Grede?

  And then all of a sudden, you know, like something hits you and you're like, oh, I just want a baby. And I can't think about anything else. But I feel like you know when you know. And it is the curse of ambition, right? It's like you have to, you know, figure out what's gonna come first. And especially in the entertainment industry, like your timing, like you don't choose your timing. The timing chooses you.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  That part.

• 9:38Emma Grede?

  Well, you were working, I mean, you had this incredible YouTube series you were killing. And, you know, all of a sudden, to the rest of us, it appeared you were plucked out of obscurity. And suddenly you were on our TVs. I'm pretty sure there was some work that led up to that moment.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Absolutely, as you know, yeah. It's been, it's been a long time in the making. And yeah, even before that YouTube series, the people knew there were two other ones that I wasn't in. But I was still like working and grinding towards. But to your point, it has been just a constant, constant grind that I love. But there also has to be more and a different kind of balance. I don't wanna like grind it out for nothing.

• 10:17Emma Grede?

  Fair. Grind it out for nothing is not, is not the thing. Talk to me about your creative process, because I feel like, you know, you're a, I mean, I assume that you're a writer and an actress first and foremost. Like, talk to me about the early days. Like, what came before Insecure?

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Before Insecure, I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to be a filmmaker. And, you know, I was entering contests. I entered a Sundance writing contest with a friend and we were semifinalists. And I just wanted to make the movies that I love that weren't in theaters anymore. You know, like the. The Love Joneses and the Love in Basketball is like all those disappeared. And I was like, I want to, I want to make those, those movies make me feel way. And then I started making web series when I went to LA and tried to sell those movies that I was talking about. And there just wasn't an audience for them. And so I would just dabble with trying to make an audience online.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  And that turned into like, I really like doing this. And now I'm building a following and I kind of just want to create for online until the right opportunity comes along. And then a few right opportunities came along that I fucked up. Thanks for telling us that. For sure. Please say more. I mean, I'm very candid about an ABC opportunity with Shonda Land, Shonda Rhimes's company, that I just wasn't ready for creatively because I was too scared. Like you were offered something and decided not to do it? Um, I, I had pilot opportunity, I pitched a show for them for ABC. And their development team was so great in, in terms of like holding my hand through the pilot process.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Because despite wanting to be a filmmaker, despite writing for my own web series, I had never really written a TV show before and much less like a network pilot. And so I was also such a fan of Shonda and everything that she's, she was building. She is, she has built over time, but to witness that firsthand, like I was in their offices, working with their development team. It was just so cool. And I approached it with the, what can I make for you mindset? As opposed to what do I want to make and what's my voice? And I forgot that in that process, like they had wanted to work with me because of my voice. And so that process was just, I describe it as I turned in kind of like mush at the end of the day. Cause I didn't know, it was just voiceless, voiceless material.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Um, cause I didn't have a POV. And so, yeah, the ABC ended up passing on the project and I was like, I blew my one shot. And then HBO called after that to just see what I had.

• 12:58Emma Grede?

  What did it feel like emotionally, like that waiting period between, you know, when you had the YouTube series to the ABC thing not working out and then, you know, getting insecure, you know, going through HBO, like, what was that like for you?

• 13:12Speaker 02

  The most anxious I ever felt was the waiting period to get the pilot for, to get the green light to shoot the pilot. That was such a long process and that felt like literally my last chance to do it right. Cause again, I was now at my dream network. I, they gave, HBO gave me a chance to do another draft and that's when I was like, I'm just gonna make it as raw as I can. Kind of reworked some things, uh, reworked a lot of things and then just sat there like, I hope they say yes. And I remember the day I got the email that we were gonna be able to shoot a pilot and I was like, I'm not gonna fuck this up.

• 13:50Emma Grede?

  And, and you didn't. You went, you went in, did it get to you at all? Were you like, I'm a star now?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 14:01Emma Grede?

  At what point did you start feeling like a star? I'm so interested.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  I don't, I've never felt that way. I've never felt like, like I'm a star.

• 14:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Do people feel that way?

• 14:10Emma Grede?

  I'm sure they do. I'm sure like, you know, yeah, I'm sure they do.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  No, I'm always on the other side of just like, oh, when, when's this gonna go away? Like, let's, let me take advantage of it right now, cause it's so, this one, it won't, it won't last. Nothing lasts. And I'm very cognizant of that. So for me, I'm always like, okay, what's the next thing? And how do I, how do I keep this going, um, so that I can do the next thing? But no, I've never.

• 14:34Emma Grede?

  Well, it's so interesting to me because, I mean, it's so clear that you have been able to leverage the success of that show and what it brought you as an individual, as a businesswoman. Because again, and I, I will say this, I look at you and I'm like, she's building an empire. And I wanna understand like, why it's been important to you to have this diversification? Is it the fact that you can, or did you always have this plan? Because you have gone into so many areas outside of entertainment in consumer goods and hair. You know, you've got this like burgeoning kind of restaurant empire that's happening. Will you talk a little bit about that side of things?

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it comes from having multiple passions and, you know, feeling like I didn't wanna be. Kind of like what I was talking about earlier, stuck in one place. Like, I love creating. Like, that is what I love the most. But I also always wanted a coffee shop. I also love the restaurant industry. I love to eat. I love to serve. I love these things. So, these are like passion projects for me. And to your point, I wanted to leverage the opportunity to work with people I'm fans of, to collaborate with them, to make these other passion projects or side quests work. And, yeah, it was just a matter of like, not trying to limit myself.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  I make sure, making sure that it makes sense, that like, my main business could support the other businesses. Otherwise, nothing works. And that's also something that I'm realizing, that I've been realizing over the last year, where as much as I want to be like, behind the scenes, I also have to be visible for these businesses to work, which is... Damn right. You're like, "Yeah, girl." I'm like, "Yeah." I know. Get out there. And that is, that's something I'm navigating, because sometimes I just, I don't be wanting to be. Like, right now, I've been off social media since the first, and it's a dream, you know? You have? I love taking breaks. I don't, I don't want to, but you have to. My most feared phrase about myself is, "I could just be doing anything."

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Like, that would be like, "Oh, no. Is that what you think?" And I don't want to feel that way about myself. Like, it doesn't make sense. Like, "Oh, I did it for the check." You know? Like, that, I say, "No." You ever do it for the check? No. And my manager can tell you that. He's like, "Come on." Just take it. It's a lot. "You sure?" And I'm like, "No. I would rather not. No." Because I wouldn't, again, I would show up dreading it. And I don't like the feeling of like... This doesn't feel right.

• 17:13Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  I'm impulsive. That I feel like is my best and worst quality. It's my worst quality because I don't ask enough questions sometimes going into something. But it's my best quality because I don't overthink and I'm optimistic in that everything will work out.

• 17:27Emma Grede?

  And fearless, it feels like there's a certain part of you that is not scared about what options that you have. You're just gonna go.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 17:36Emma Grede?

  I don't know, that's like, when I look at all the things that you do, I mean, I'm interested to understand like what lessons you're learning as you kind of like are juggling all of these businesses.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  A lot of lessons. More recently, just I, I like being nimble more than having, like I really, really like being hands on and it gives me anxiety the more I have to delegate. I find that I like to get my hands dirty. Like I just re-edited something myself a couple of weeks ago. Cause I was like, I wanna show how it should look and I feel like I, it'll take me more time to explain it. And I can see how it is in my head.

• 18:11Emma Grede?

  And you can do that? You can edit like footage?

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Sure, yes, I can. That's where I came from. I had to do it for Aqua Black Girl. But and yeah, this was like basic, but there was, this was just to get the message across. And I'm like, I, I miss doing that. I miss showing and I, it pisses me off that things cost money, extra money when I know I can do it myself and I know I can do it well and it takes extra time. And I'm just like, I don't ever wanna forget where I came from, where I was like, I wanna make something so I can make it. I can just do it. That is a huge thing that I'm learning this year is like more people doesn't mean it gets done faster. It means it's just more people.

• 18:45Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it's just more people. That's it. When, I feel like there's such a, a big difference between like visibility and power. When for you, did you kind of realize they weren't the same thing?

• 18:58Speaker 02

  There's something about this era, and I was just saying this, like be- because we're, we're in this era of social media. You feel like. Because you have eyes on you, you should? Like, I found myself, I wanna talk about this thing or show what I'm doing. And I'm like, why? Who cares? Who deserves? Why do they? Why does anybody need to know this? Why does anybody need this? What is this doing for me? Where I find like, there's just so much power in just quietly doing. And when, when things are ready, like, I just, I love popping out with something finished that I want people to see as opposed to having these moments of constant accessibility that kind of mean nothing and aren't special.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Like, I think for me, what I've, the conclusion that I've come to over the last couple of years is I wanna do stuff that feels special.

• 19:52Emma Grede?

  Where's that come from?

• 19:54Speaker 02

  From having so much thrown at, like, we were talking about the attention economy and just the barrage of content. And now, like, what slop is gonna be? Like, I think people are gonna crave, and I know that I myself crave things that feel like they are special and that, that they're fleeting. Or that they are conversation starters and that they make me feel a certain way. Like, I'm drawn to things now that just, like, I can't shake. Whereas if you ask me the last video I watched, I can't remember, but I can remember, like, yeah, I was happy in the moment, but it's not staying with me. I crave things that, like, stay with me. Cause I remember how those things made me feel growing up. They made me wanna be an artist.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  They made me wanna create things that made other people feel the same way.

• 20:40Emma Grede?

  Yeah. And so is that like a barometer for you when you're choosing your projects or you're choosing what businesses to go into? You're really looking for something that has, like, staying power? Something that is gonna be, like, memorable and thoughtful and, and move you?

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm, I'm, I said I wanna make, I wanna make people's favorite shit. Like, and that means That's a really good North Star, by the way. You need a T-shirt and it has to go on a wall somewhere. I just want to make your favorite shit. And that can be anything. And that could be like, high art. It could be, you know, slapstick humor. But like, there's some, I have, just like, I have a range of things that make me so happy and that have defined who I am because they just, there was some intention and there was something that resonated with me at the time and that, that, the period that I was in, or it means a lot to me and my friends because it's inside jokes.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, I look for things that make me either laugh really, really hard because they're funny or stupid, or things that just make me feel emotionally seen. And that's kind of my guiding, my guiding light.

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• 22:26Speaker 04

  Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher.

• 22:28Speaker 05

  And I'm Scott Galloway.

• 22:29Speaker 04

  And we want to tell you about Pivot, our twice-weekly podcast.

• 22:32Speaker 05

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• 22:38Speaker 04

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• 22:50Speaker 05

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• 22:56Speaker 04

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• 23:00Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially Mr. "That's right," you can follow us on your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every week.

• 23:18Emma Grede?

  I wonder what surprised you most about where the decision making sits? Because you strike me as somebody that is very clear about your intentions. You have a north star. You want to make people's favorite shit. In the entertainment business, sometimes it's not always your decision. Like, how? I just wonder what surprises you now about where the decision making power actually sits?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  What surprises me?

• 23:45Emma Grede?

  Yeah, or even like, it's not even what just surprises you. It's like, I guess you're someone who's kind of taken that somewhat into your own hands. Was that always part of the plan?

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Ideally, yeah, that was part of the ideal plan. But to your question, something did surprise me where it resonated with me last year, where I was like, oh. And I have so much respect for executives and people who give notes. But it dawned on me that what I wanted to make was in the hands of one person. Like, you know, the decision making was in the hands of one person's taste. And I was like, oh, OK. And they might be really honest about that taste. Like, oh, this genre thing might not be for me, but that also means it doesn't get made because it's not for them. And so that was like eye opening for me in a way where it was like, oh, yeah, I'm beholden to a singular person's taste. And while their taste might be broad and I respect their taste,

• 24:41Speaker 02

  everything's not going to be for them, which means like I'm... The things that I really want, really want to make on a large scale, I can't make because of that.

• 24:50Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  And so that took me a long realization. It took me a long time to realize. And so that also made me double down in another area where I'm like, oh, I want to be able to make things independently and to have a breeding ground for experimenting. And I'm excited to do that more this year.

• 25:09Emma Grede?

  Do you think there've been moments, or rather, have there been moments when there's been an expectation that you would be grateful for access when you're actually the one bringing real value?

• 25:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's...

• 25:19Emma Grede?

  How did you respond?

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Not well.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Honestly, I've heard that said a couple of times and like there is an incident that happened where those words were kind of used and I was like, oh, that's all right. All right, this is a business at the end of the day and we're not friends here and I I can realize, I I'm happy to realize that and it kind of made me disconnect and also in a hardened way, like look at myself as a product. I think that that is taking taking feelings out of it where you're like, okay, I am creating a product. Mm hmm. I need a buyer and if they're looking at me that way, then there's a there's a

• 26:04Speaker 02

  way where I need to balance like, and this actually happened also in the on the movie side, like working with studios and, you know, making things that a studio will be willing to buy. That has changed so much. Totally. Uh, like trying to figure out what what is theatrical and molding to kind of their standards. It can be sometimes like soul crushing where you're just like, oh damn, like this is, this is it. But you guys know what you're talking about. You know what you're talking about. Like there is a, uh, when we produced One of Them Days movie that I'm super proud of that was like so much fun to make. I'd never done, I'd never tested

• 26:48Speaker 02

  a movie before that was like my own, you know? So we would test the movie in front of them. Was that even consist of like showing it to them? Showing showing like people that come to a movie theater that will show up, will sample, like have a sample audience. They don't know what they're gonna come to see. They watched the whole movie? They watched the whole movie and we watched them watch it and we watched when they laugh, we watched when they don't, we watched what they respond to and then you kind of adjust the edit from there. And so the first time you're showing it, we know that there's, you know, flaws in the movie, but we want to test it for the audience to just see where we are. And after that first screening, the executives were like, or no, the the person who does the survey was like, you need something in the first 12 minutes of the movie that's gonna make the audience laugh. Otherwise, they don't know it's a comedy. And I'm like, that's so.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Like, that's so reductive of an audience. Like, they're not smart. That's, I don't know, but, okay, let's figure it out. So we had to figure out and conjure this moment that was broad for audiences to realize, like, this is a comedy. And we worked together to find that. And finding the balance of like, please, God, like, can we make it this? Can we make it this? Can we make this? And then we settled on a moment, and it literally works.

• 27:57Emma Grede?

  Was it the right decision?

• 27:59Speaker 02

  It was the right decision. And I'm like, that's when they know what they're talking about.

• 28:01Emma Grede?

  Fair, fair.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  And I've learned so much during this process. And that's when I'm like, oh, it's, this is a product that has been tested, that has been sampled, and my creative instincts aren't always gonna be right. No matter how passionately I feel about them, there, there are formulas that work and that audiences swear by. If I wanna make stuff that isn't that, then that's my own creative risk. Then I, then I'm not making a studio movie.

• 28:25Emma Grede?

  Yeah, fair.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  And like, I'm taking that risk on.

• 28:27Emma Grede?

  But that's like, you know, a culmination of, I guess, you know, experience and somewhat of like, you being, like, having a maturity level to be able to, like, take that information.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:40Emma Grede?

  I wonder, like, you know, because I feel like as women, we're so often encouraged to be collaborative and agreeable. And I wonder if you've ever felt the tension of having to be respected and having to be liked in your business?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 28:55Emma Grede?

  How do you navigate that?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Well, generally, I, I still approach things, because I've seen the other way. I've seen people just throw their weight around and, and do other, and I don't like that. I don't, I don't like witnessing it. I've, I've seen people I respect and talent I respect, like, talking to people any kind of way, and they, they maintain that that is how you get things done.

• 29:15Emma Grede?

  That's the worst.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  But, yeah, it is the worst. And I feel like what I've done is taken a step back and realized, like, everybody who's a part of something, for the most part, wants it to be good and wants to do a good job. And so, talking to, to, to people like they don't want that is like, everybody loses. And, and so I try to find, I try to keep that in the back of my mind, like, you wanted this to be good, you wanna help this. So like, how can we work together to make that happen? Unless someone is outwardly disrespectful to me, then I won't return that energy. But make me, make no mistake, if you are disrespectful to me, I will come at you really hard. But yeah, generally, no, I try to operate with. With kindness and with the with the intention to move forward and and make something good.

• 30:01Emma Grede?

  What kind of leader do you think you are?

• 30:03Speaker 02

  That I feel like I'm one that listens. I'm one that I I like to fix things. I hate things. The the the biggest challenge I've had is when people come to me with problems that are more to vent. And I'm like, I can't do anything. So I can't do anything about this. You're just telling me this and I still have to carry this now and like, what what can I what can I do about this to fix this? And yeah, I I think for me, if it's not a fixable thing, don't tell me.

• 30:36Emma Grede?

  Yeah. You know? I mean, I'm not, I have a low tolerance for people coming to me unless it's a solution.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Yes, and help me find a solution.

• 30:45Emma Grede?

  Like, I will whine and moan with the best of them, but I need you to start with a solution.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:50Emma Grede?

  And then we can bitch them out now.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:52Emma Grede?

  But give me the solve.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:53Emma Grede?

  Don't waste my time.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  I completely agree and and, you know, I have been like, please, if you're gonna bring me something like, bring me two things you want me to you've been thinking about for a solution because I have to fix a whole bunch of different things in the day.

• 31:07Emma Grede?

  And you just got this part. How comfortable are you using your power?

• 31:13Speaker 02

  You got this part, so.

• 31:14Emma Grede?

  I'm like, please, God, just rein it in. How comfortable are you using the power that you've earned compared to earlier in your career?

• 31:25Speaker 02

  I think way more comfortable now. Before, I used to tiptoe a lot and do the, to your point, like, I just want, I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I want, I just got here. I want people to like me. Now that I'm like a business, I'm just like, yo, business gotta get done. I don't, I don't care. And then honestly, this period is pissing me off a lot because to watch people, because it is like watching people comfortably.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Be like, we don't wanna make black shit. And or something is too black or like, we don't wanna. We're stepping away from these things and sitting in that and feeling power, power and like, oh, we don't have to hire. We don't have to do diversity hires because that's what I always thought it was the entire time like. Not having that same mission and be able to just go back to the status quo like that doesn't. It just doesn't sit well with me like what, what is? Where, where's the intention like, where's the acknowledgement? And I'm not saying that like the way that things were was great at all by any means. I feel like there was. There were still a lot of, I don't know, there was, there was, there were the warrants of entitlement, there are things like that, but I, I just feel like.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Not acknowledging that we have a broken system is so stupid.

• 32:41Emma Grede?

  So stupid. I want you to say a little bit more about that because I do feel like. You know, there was this moment and this time and this energy where corporations, it was like a wake up call. And I think being, you know, not from America and being right in the thick of that and being surrounded by what felt like this like amazing moment where people that had just not thought about this stuff in the longest time. Were suddenly being forced to and they would be suddenly forced to mandate it and measure it and be intentional. And then the mass exodus, like what are you actually doing in your own business? That's contrary to that.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Maintaining it, you know, like we, we, we really haven't switched up and. Yeah, the intention is still there like we still have that same passion for the fervor to break people into the industry to, to again, it comes down to telling these stories, telling our stories and the commitment is just even, even more there. And when I watched Sinner is like, I was so excited.

• 33:49Emma Grede?

  We were all so excited.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  You know, like it just felt like. Um, something so welcome during a time where we were so starving and thirsty. And it was clearly someone's personal art that just you could feel.

• 34:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah, talk about something that stayed with you.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:07Emma Grede?

  I mean, I feel like I've never seen anything like this before in my life.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I was grateful to to have witnessed that and to to share in that. And so that was a product of right after, you know, that was right after, I'd imagine, even the way that he was able to negotiate. His deal that it happened in the 2020s, like 2021, maybe, and and that process. And so like, that's what we get out of something like that. That's the that's the permission we're granted to make something like that. And and that that excites me. Excellent shit, my favorite shit, honestly, deeply. And so, yeah, I I'm like, we want to be able to create those things at our company, whether it comes from us or not.

• 34:47Emma Grede?

  Issa, if there's one thing that you could say to your industry about the rollback of D E and I, what would that be?

• 34:53Speaker 02

  I I guess just be considerate, like, just look at, like, literally. There are so many sets that I've walked on have literally just been like, it's all white dudes, like, did y'all even, are y'all looking at this? Like, come on, just be my, like, interview everybody at the very least. And that's the challenge, just look around and and think about if it if it if it replicates what you see in the real world, honestly, which feels so simple, but.

• 35:25Emma Grede?

  But but can I just say, in the simplicity, that's the solve. Because I think what people don't want is they don't want things that are cumbersome. They don't want solutions that take longer. But when you talk and when I talk about this, like, it doesn't take many people in a room to be considerate. It just takes that one person to go, can I just check everyone here? Is everyone and and usually when one person speaks up, the rest of the room goes, oh, yeah, shit, like, maybe we need to rethink this, right?

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:53Emma Grede?

  So I actually think that, like, our own personal responsibility here is that be that person, be that one person that fucking says something. Because often it doesn't take much more than that. Now, listen, we know there are spaces and places where one person doing something's not going to mean anything, but in a myriad of ways, sometimes that's all that's needed. And so I like to encourage people everywhere in every company, it doesn't matter what you do, like, be the person who stands up and says. Should we just check ourselves right now?

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wholly receive that and agree.

• 36:28Emma Grede?

  Let's go. All right, Isa, my favorite part.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Ooh, ooh, the leg switched up. What am I in for?

• 36:35Emma Grede?

  I want to talk about money.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, let's go, let's go.

• 36:38Emma Grede?

  I don't know why nobody wants to talk to me about money. And I was so happy because at the start of this interview, you said to me in the group room, you're like, I'm here.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:46Emma Grede?

  And nothing makes me more happy than when someone just comes to play. Someone comes to have a conversation and just like get it out. I want to start because you are a creative person. First of all, how important is money to you at this stage of your career?

• 37:04Speaker 02

  At this stage, it is important to own. You have to have money, like you just, you do. You have to be able to, to be able to self-finance, to be able to take risks. Like, that is, that's a huge part of like what my, what my north star is. And so if I don't have the means to, to pay people, to get things done, then I will suffocate. And then I'm at the whims of the mercy of other executive studios. Money matters and I have put, even talked to my business manager this year, like, and thinking about setting the goals that I wanted to set for this year and beyond.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  He was candid, he was like, everything, everything that you're making now is for other people. Like, you're fine, but this is, everything that you're making from this point is for you to invest in other people, for you to invest in projects. Like, you could be fine right now, you could retire, you could be done. So think about that and how you're, how you're using your money. And I was like, oh, that kind of put a battery in my back where I was like, oh, I'm cool. Because I have been used to just like watching myself and making sure that I'm financially stable and feeling like, again, these things will go away. And to be able to hear like, no, you're good, also was like, oh, well, shit, I can do more.

• 38:25Emma Grede?

  How did that make you feel? There's nothing about you that was like, oh, good, I'm gonna like go get a house in the countryside and chill.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  No, but I was like, oh, that's in my future. Cool, great. And it's, again, so dumb that maybe I didn't think that, but I'm so used to like hustling and grinding that it was, yeah, it was a wake up call that there's nothing stopping me beyond wanting to have a successful business and businesses. Like, I don't want to be reckless at all.

• 38:54Emma Grede?

  Have you had times in your career where you've been reckless? Because obviously you have invested in yourself. Have there been moments where you've taken risks? And perhaps you didn't understand, like, or fully understand the costs or what might have happened?

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, ironically, when I didn't have money, like, I was taking all these risks and going, you know, heavily into debt. Like, I felt so crippled and crushed by the money that I owed, you know? And that sucked, but I was like, there's no other way that I'm gonna get this done. And I guess I, I, the impulsiveness, I didn't plan this out. I didn't know how to budget. I didn't know what things cost. Um, for me, it was like a necessity to make things. And, you know, ultimately, they paid off. And then that came with the optimism, like, okay, if I spend this now, I know I'll figure out a way to get back.

• 39:42Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  I'm working three, four jobs now in different night shifts. And like, I will figure this out, but I need to do this at this time.

• 39:51Emma Grede?

  How's your relationship with money changed over the years?

• 39:55Speaker 02

  It's changed a lot in that, like, now I feel, like I said, comfortable. I don't think about it as much in my, like, personal daily life. I think I only think about it when it comes to investing and in advancing my businesses and what's possible. But I honestly I still am approaching things with the like, we can get it done for this. Like, we don't need to spend that much money.

• 40:21Emma Grede?

  You're frugal.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  I am so frugal. I am so frugal. I don't have all the streaming services because I'm like, why am I paying for stuff if I'm not watching this thing? I don't, people make fun of me for that.

• 40:31Emma Grede?

  Oh, you're frugal like I'm frugal.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  I'm like, just because I have it doesn't mean I need to spend it and if it doesn't make sense. So what I will say is like, Ma, you asked me my reckless things. I was just talking about this last night.

• 40:42Emma Grede?

  I want to know your reckless things. I want to know like the last fun purchase.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  No, it's all, it's literally food and travel. That is it. I will pay so much for a restaurant experience, for a Michelin star, whatever, for someone that's up and coming.

• 40:56Emma Grede?

  That's a treat to you, like Michelin star deliciousness.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  I do. I love pit wine pairings. I love alcohol. I love all the samples. And I love going places that like, like being able to point on a map and being like, I'm gonna go there. And I'm, want to stay in the best resort or the hotel or wherever is like that, that is mine.

• 41:12Emma Grede?

  That's your indulgence.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. But which, which are things that I can keep, but they stay here. Like, I don't really buy things unfortunately that are, like I can point to and be like, oh, I have that. That's what I spent money on.

• 41:26Emma Grede?

  No, you're like, I went to Japan and I had these insane experiences and that meant something to me.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, true.

• 41:32Emma Grede?

  I mean, that's a, a great way to spend your money. I mean, for women that are listening to this and they're always told to, you know, like invest in themselves. What do you think about that conversation that deserves a little bit more honesty, given your experience?

• 41:48Speaker 02

  I guess, yeah, sometimes there is a reticence to take care of themselves. Like, especially if they have families, like they're like, I have to, I have to make sure everybody else is good, which I respect. But nobody will be good if you're not good, you know? And I think if anything, that's the message. But I've been, I think I'm working on being a little less selfish this year. If anything, I have been selfish and I've acknowledged that, like, I'm like, oh, wow. The older I get.

• 42:14Emma Grede?

  You're like, I could tip the scale the other way.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  I could, I could, I could definitely do that.

• 42:19Emma Grede?

  Tell me about that because that, that to me is so interesting. You know, I, I've just written a book. It comes out in April. It's called Start With Yourself. And I am big on selfishness.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  But I feel like you can afford to be like, come on. But I guess, you know, this industry will have you feeling like, and you asked me if I feel like a star, no, but I've definitely been catered to. And this industry will make you feel like you're important. And that's not real, you know? And, and so in that way, like, I've had to shake like, yeah, this is not about me. There are other people that make this work. Like, you should be thinking about other people a lot more throughout this process and making sure that they're good. And I, I do to an extent, but I could do more, you know? And not even to an extent, I do think about other people. But yeah, there's just more that I could do to de-center myself.

• 43:14Emma Grede?

  So what does the season of less selfishness for Issa even look like?

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Um, it is like being more intentional about like, this was, these were also my resolutions, but.

• 43:26Emma Grede?

  Please give them to us.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Like more family time, being there for friends. Like so many of my friends have been there and family members have been there for my events. And, you know, I want to make sure that I'm there for the things that matter to them and carving those time, carving that time out. And yeah, just being more generous with my time for the people that I care about.

• 43:51Emma Grede?

  Is some of this stuff like just age and wisdom? Or is this coming with a certain thing that's happened?

• 43:57Speaker 02

  It's probably going back to what I feel like is missing, you know? Like the, the, the personal side and investing in the personal side and making sure that that balance is there. So yeah, it's coming with age, but it's also coming with like the awareness of what else fulfills me.

• 44:13Emma Grede?

  Yeah. I wonder, I want to go back to all these businesses that you're building. And I wonder how you protect like your creative flow and your creative energy when you're doing so many different things in different lanes?

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Trust the people that I work with and that I collaborate with. I make myself available when I'm needed. But if people have a, and then, you know, I'm there for like the critiques and trying to improve things. But I, for this year, I have such a target and have such a, such specific goals about what we need as a company, what I need as a creative, that I've been really focused on that. Cause like I said earlier, if I don't have the things that I'm creating, also if I'm not visible to a certain extent, then nothing else really works or matters in the same way. Like in a rising tide lifts all boats kind of way.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  So I really have to make sure that, like, why, like, the core of why I got into this industry is, is functioning and functioning well.

• 45:21Emma Grede?

  And is that how you do it? Like you set goals for yourself and the company?

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Yes, but also the best thing that I ever did was hiring a C O O. I really wanted that a long time ago. And a lot of my day-

• 45:35Emma Grede?

  Was that a goal?

• 45:36Speaker 02

  It was. It's been a goal for a long time. I've been looking for a long time. And, uh, cause I find that, you know, a lot of my day was wrapped in meetings and managing the company. And that meant that I didn't have time to create-

• 45:46Emma Grede?

  And you're talking about your production company specifically?

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Yes, like the, the company who we're at large. And so to be able to have someone who is actively strategizing and actively keeping us on target and actively holding people accountable in a way that I almost felt embarrassed to, only because like I can't hold you accountable if I'm not holding myself accountable to this deadline and blah, blah. And I, I have, my attention is split so many ways. So to be able to find that right person to, to do that has been a huge weight off of my shoulders. I'm still deeply involved in these targets and like I said, I'm super hands on. But yeah, I, I needed focus and I needed, I needed that.

• 46:35Speaker 06

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• 47:20Speaker 06

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• 47:36Emma Grede?

  What are your goals? What are you ambitious for now?

• 47:40Speaker 02

  I want to be more prolific, you know, even in the things that I make.

• 47:44Emma Grede?

  That's a good one.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  I do.

• 47:46Emma Grede?

  That's a bit, I want to be more prolific.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, like there's so much that I want to make. I want to make so many. I want to make more movies. I want to make more TV shows. I want to expand my digital footprint now that I can. Like, there's just, and that's not just me that's working with collaborators that I've always wanted to work with. And now that I can be, I can be available to do that. Another resolution was to be less accessible, you know? And that, like, accessible in the sense that, yeah, I would take these meetings. I would, I would meet you for lunch. I would go to dinner. And then that would be more time sucks for me. And like, more time that I'm not doing what I'm, I feel like I'm supposed to do. So I have been humbly staying inside.

• 48:30Emma Grede?

  How did you learn that discernment? Because I'm sure after Insecure, right? The floodgates opened. Everybody wants to work with you. What's the conversation that goes on in your head that decides whether you should be involved in something or not? Or take an offer or not?

• 48:45Speaker 02

  Oh, man. What's the conversation?

• 48:47Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Uh, it's

• 48:48Emma Grede?

  Just because I just imagine you like in a mirror having a conversation.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  I write it down, actually, and I will, I will weigh the, what is it, the opportunity cost? That's like the one thing I learned in economics.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Is that?

• 49:05Emma Grede?

  That's like, that's a big one to learn.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  It really is.

• 49:08Emma Grede?

  Especially for someone like you, because, you know, for you to be visible in something, your time is finite. There's only so many hours in a day and days in a year.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, but some people do it really, really well. And there are some people who genuinely enjoy it, and I don't. I have to recognize that, like, are you gonna like, are you gonna like shilling yourself out for this? So it really has to matter. Like, when I love something, I will whore myself out for all day, like, in all aspects. But if I'm like only lukewarm, then it does feel embarrassing to me to show up and be like, hey, I'm promoting this, you know? And so I think about that often, like, how are you gonna feel when, when it's out?

• 49:48Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Or when it's, yeah, when it is, like, you have to post it on your social media. You have to do that collab post. You have to, whatever it is, like, are you gonna feel good about it? Are you gonna feel like, ugh? And, but post insecure was different. I didn't have the experience. For me, it was just like, my eyes are open, what?

• 50:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Like, this is, this is a possibility. I can work with this person, even though I may not be mentally ready yet. Like, I, yeah, I'm gonna go for it. Okay, I fucked it up, damn. Like, a lot of that happened.

• 50:17Emma Grede?

  Yeah, like, absolutely no doubt that happened. What are you most excited about now?

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm just proud of the stuff that I'm making and the collaborators that I have. I'm, this, I keep saying that this year is, it does feel like, I've been saying like 2016, it's been feeling like 2016 before everybody else has been saying it.

• 50:38Emma Grede?

  Oh, were you an early adopter of that?

• 50:40Speaker 02

  I was. I wrote it last year. I was like, oh.

• 50:42Emma Grede?

  My husband says that. I'm like, shut up.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  He said that too?

• 50:44Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  What's his sign?

• 50:46Emma Grede?

  He's a Pisces.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Oh, he's a Pisces.

• 50:48Emma Grede?

  He's a Pisces, yeah.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  So he, he knew, he had a feeling that this, this year felt like.

• 50:53Emma Grede?

  And he's usually good at, like, catching a vibe. He's like, Emma, you know, this is what everyone's gonna be talking about, saying. And I'm like, no, no, no.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  I need to know.

• 51:01Emma Grede?

  I want that 2016 around me.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  It's real. It felt similar in that, like, that year for me, I was like on the cusp of creating and felt like I

• 51:13Speaker 02

  I knew that I was making something that I really desperately wanted to be making, that I was super excited about, and I have the same energy this year around multiple things where I'm like, oh, this feels like the building year and then it feels like the reaping year and then the sewing year is next year.

• 51:32Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  It's like a two year, it's a combo.

• 51:35Emma Grede?

  Yeah, yeah, no, no.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  It's a one-two punch.

• 51:36Emma Grede?

  This I understand. I'm into the one-two punch. I like to brand my years and I always have like an idea for like, like this is this year and then this year leads to this next thing.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes.

• 51:47Emma Grede?

  The one-two totally works for me.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  What's your brand for this year?

• 51:50Emma Grede?

  Oh, like this is the breakout year.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Oh, I love, okay, yeah.

• 51:53Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  What was last year?

• 51:54Emma Grede?

  I don't know, I've been sitting behind the desk for the last 10 years, I can't tell you. They're the typing years.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Okay, so that was the clutch, it was the clutch.

• 52:04Emma Grede?

  It's a cluster of years that she's been like, you know, mint sewing. I don't know.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  The breakout year.

• 52:11Emma Grede?

  It's gone, it's gone in such a flash that you know sometimes like you can lose years. That's what kids will do for you. Between the kids and the companies, I'm like, I need to break out. And I don't mean it in that sense of like, you know, a star breaking out.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  No, I completely get it.

• 52:26Emma Grede?

  Breaking out of these things that have sucked and taken every bit of time and energy that I've had, I need to like.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  I feel that 100%.

• 52:34Emma Grede?

  It's like, aren't you grown up now? Feed yourself and that company works.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 52:38Emma Grede?

  Bye-bye.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel it. You're, you're pouring into me. Is this also what the book is about?

• 52:43Emma Grede?

  Kind of. I mean, the book, the book is really one of these things that I was desperate to say because I just feel like we're in such an interesting time in the culture and the way people work. And so, you know, I can't, I'm like, in the same way that you said, you don't want to hear people just come to you with like noise, I don't want to hear that from a whole section of society. So I just, I just tell them what I think.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Woo, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna pick that up because, yeah, I need to hear all that. But the breakout year, I fully feel it.

• 53:14Emma Grede?

  We try, we try, but I love the one-two punch. I love this idea that you're like sowing the seeds and then you're gonna reap the rewards. I mean, this is, it's pretty incredible stuff though. Like it feels like you're in a lane and you're doing the, you know, great stuff and great work and you look like a person who is. Somehow kind of quietly confident about what they're doing.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say that. I am quietly confident. Yeah, because I just don't want to be seen being confident, you know, it's just.

• 53:43Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  I would rather, again, be behind the scenes and just working and then emerge like. Yeah, the cocoon thing where I'm like, I feel like I'm very much in this cocoon. And like this self-made cocoon, just like. Becoming what I want to be, like becoming this, to your point about the typing cluster years, I feel like. The last couple of years, I've been a moth. And now I'm like, oh, I'm about to come out a butterfly, you about to see.

• 54:09Emma Grede?

  I mean, I love that. I'm thinking about this idea about, you know, like productivity and pressure. Like, at what point does all of this productivity that you've got in your life become pressure to you? Is there any sense of that?

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Uh, I think when it comes to. I put a lot of pressure on myself, for sure. But then, yeah, when I think about the other people who are depending on me, and that could be. People at the company, that could be, it could be familial. Yeah, I just.

• 54:40Emma Grede?

  Oh, you have that too?

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yes, I do. To the last extent than you, for sure.

• 54:48Emma Grede?

  How do you know? I'm gonna say yeah, probably.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Poor girl. I don't have four kids. But yeah, like I think about, it is mostly on myself because I'm, I envision in my head where I want to be. And I'm so impatient, you know, like it really. It really bothers me when things don't happen on my time and. Like, I always learn on the other side, like, oh, the timing was just right. That's, but it's a lesson I have to learn literally every single time.

• 55:17Emma Grede?

  Really? Because it just doesn't, like, it's just not dropping in for whatever it is.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I get frustrated when I. Can't do things the way I want to do them now when things aren't on my time. Like, I, I, I think, I guess, I guess, goes back to being bossy, goes to being ambitious. It goes to this overwhelming feeling that I'm running out of time, like, all these things.

• 55:37Emma Grede?

  You feel that? You feel like you're running out of time?

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:40Emma Grede?

  Yeah, what is it about the forties that does that to you?

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Shit is fucked right now.

• 55:43Emma Grede?

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  Shit forever. Shit is so fucked. But, yeah, like, you know, I, I think also in a good way where it's just you only have this life if you don't believe in reincarnation, which I would like to believe in it. Heaven's, never mind, I'm not gonna get into that.

• 55:59Emma Grede?

  Go, go, I love that.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Well, just heaven sounds so scary. Hell sounds scary, but like, living in a place, it's, I'm getting too much. But, yes, I want.

• 56:09Emma Grede?

  I was so into, I was like, we're gonna be scared of heaven.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  There's something.

• 56:13Emma Grede?

  Well, you feel like you'll be bored, you're gonna be bored in heaven?

• 56:15Speaker 02

  I hope not.

• 56:16Emma Grede?

  It's not enough happening with you.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  It's infinity. It's so, it's, it's like the infinite.

• 56:21Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Like, when I think about things going on forever, whenever I think about, like, time goes on forever, I would rather be doing different versions of that time as something else, as opposed to whatever this is.

• 56:37Emma Grede?

  Well, you're like a person who's like craving the transition, like craving like the what's next. Like, something's great and you're like not resting on your laurels, you're already moving on. Like, you're trying to cook the next thing.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, kinda, yeah, no, yes, that. But, like, where, where life is concerned, I absolutely have to make the most of it right now.

• 56:56Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and also, I feel like there's a certain amount of privilege in this situation that you've created for yourself, that you're like, why wouldn't you make the most of it?

• 57:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, if, if I can, there is so much, like, anytime I'm, by no means I feel restless right now and I feel weird and I've been expressing that, but I am beyond happy. Like, I feel happy that I've been able to build a life that I want, you know? There's, and my happiness does come from, like, yeah, creating things, whether that is creating the life that I want, whether that's creating your favorite shit, whether that's maybe creating a family, maybe that's whatever. Like, I, I feel fulfilled when I'm productive and, and doing things and those things fulfill me and, and waking up every morning and feeling like I have a, a go at it and a go at something new really, really excites me.

• 57:48Emma Grede?

  I love that. How do you think about, um, legacy? Do you think about legacy?

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  Yes, because I think about death all the time, clearly.

• 58:00Emma Grede?

  Do you?

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because it's an unknown.

• 58:04Emma Grede?

  Thing was just the question I asked.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  No, girl, I think about it all the time.

• 58:08Emma Grede?

  You do?

• 58:08Speaker 02

  That's like when you love your life, you're gonna think about death, you know? You and and what's what is next? And so I think, yeah, I know that part of the running out of time thing for sure is like wrapped up in mortality for, you know, but it's also

• 58:26Speaker 02

  thinking about windows and the like. So, yeah, I think about.

• 58:30Emma Grede?

  It's amazing to me that you say you think about death, like one of my, I'm gonna totally mess the quote up, but you know that Steve Jobs quote, it was like, I think it was like a Stanford commencement speech where he says, the single best invention of life is death.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 58:44Emma Grede?

  And it just is like, you know, the knowing, waking up every day and knowing that your time is finite and one day you'll be gone.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:52Emma Grede?

  The best.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  It's a great motivator. It honestly is. And it's so funny, I think about his last words a lot, like when he was dying of cancer in the hospital bed, he like lost consciousness for a bit and as he was dying, he said, oh, wow. And I think about that, I was like, what did he see? What did he see? And then he just, you know, he left.

• 59:13Emma Grede?

  Oh, wow.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what he said.

• 59:21Emma Grede?

  That's just crazy. What did he say? Now I wanna know, what did he say?

• 59:25Speaker 02

  What did he see? We won't know until we know.

• 59:27Emma Grede?

  What a life.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:29Emma Grede?

  Oh, wow.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:30Emma Grede?

  Look at that shit that I did.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, he could have been flashing back to what he did, or he could have just seen, seen what's next.

• 59:38Emma Grede?

  Yeah, he was like doing an E so he's like, I made your favorite shit. Oh, wow. This is it.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:45Emma Grede?

  Unbelievable.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  I like to think that.

• 59:47Emma Grede?

  Unbelievable. So your legacy will look like what? If you can fast forward and look back and say something about your career, what would it be?

• 59:59Speaker 02

  I don't get to dictate that, but if I could. I like what you said about being fearless, like, but I

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  when I compare myself to people who are actually fearless in the face of danger, it doesn't add up. So I take that back. I take it back.

• 1:00:15Emma Grede?

  Fair, I understand that. I mean, in your industry and what you're doing, because Issa, there's a part of you that's like, as I was doing my research, I was like, she's a one of one. There's not ten Issas. Like, you're very, very formative in forging a path and doing things in a way that isn't easily replicated or seen. And so I do think that there is a part of you where that fearlessness, like, has to be, like, it has to be there. Like, as I was going through, I was like, wow, she's not scared of anything. She's just going.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  So interesting.

• 1:00:50Emma Grede?

  Isn't it interesting what other people think about you?

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. It is, and I really, really try not to think about it. But I thank you for that. No, I want to be remembered more as a person than for my work, you know? I want my work to be, to stand on its own, but like, the good things that people say about you are like the interactions, like, that, that still matters to me, too. Like, I want to feel like, and that is part of my personal work, like, I want to be more considerate. I want to be less selfish. I want those things. And I do feel like there's a chapter of my life that I'm going to enter outside of this, that, that feels more purposeful in a different way. Once I figure out what's missing.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  There's nothing worse than like, loving something, loving a work, and then kind of hating the person behind it, or not appreciating the persons behind it. Like, I hate hearing that some of my faves are monsters, you know?

• 1:01:47Emma Grede?

  The worst. There's nothing worse than meeting your heroes and being disappointed by them.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I try not to meet them.

• 1:01:53Emma Grede?

  Yeah, just don't meet them.

• 1:01:56Emma Grede?

  That's what I learned, just don't meet them. Just keep it in your imagination.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, everyone's great in my imagination.

• 1:02:02Emma Grede?

  At Suzy Way.

• 1:02:08Speaker 07

  Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. Personal finance can feel like a pop quiz you didn't study for. This podcast is your study guide. On NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, you'll hear from trusted journalists who explain the why behind major financial decisions. You'll get research-backed insights and clear pros and cons, whether you're planning a big purchase or just want to grow your wealth. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast on your favorite podcast app.

• 1:02:42Emma Grede?

  Where do you think your biggest challenges are going to come from?

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  Besides, like myself?

• 1:02:50Emma Grede?

  Oh, it's you. It's all you.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  I'm always gonna be the problem. Like, I will own that. I am the problem. I think also my biggest challenges are not knowing. We were just talking about this. Like, letting things, giving people multiple chances. And not...

• 1:03:09Emma Grede?

  You're not good at that?

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  I am giving, I'm too good at giving people multiple chances.

• 1:03:13Emma Grede?

  Oh, you're too good at giving...

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Like, I will see the best in people.

• 1:03:15Emma Grede?

  Oh, you're a lovely girl.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  I'm stupid, like, in that way, for sure. And I've had to be like, no, girl, nip it in the bud. It's not working.

• 1:03:25Emma Grede?

  Yeah, cut it off.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  Doesn't make sense. I'm great with that in my personal life, easy.

• 1:03:29Emma Grede?

  But in business, not so much?

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I'm like, I see the potential, yeah.

• 1:03:33Emma Grede?

  Oh, so I, most women I meet are almost like the other way around. Like, ah. So it's the business where you're, you're giving people maybe too much leeway?

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Especially when they have passion. I'm just like, oh, okay.

• 1:03:48Emma Grede?

  I guess there's a creative component...

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:03:50Emma Grede?

  ...of that. Yeah. I'll fire an annoying creative much slower than I will, like, a really annoying, like, person who works in corporate in my office.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:04:04Emma Grede?

  Because there's a, there's a value to the creativity that's somehow harder to replace.

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I, I completely agree with that.

• 1:04:12Emma Grede?

  Give me an example. Like, when has there been a time when you've just, like, not, you know, just haven't cut it off quickly enough?

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  Without being, with the person seeing this and being like, that's me!

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Um, there have been.

• 1:04:30Emma Grede?

  What color hair did she have?

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  There's been, and this applies to a few people where like you you try to craft a role for them because they are so talented, but that can be expensive. Or, you know, they may not show up in the way that you you need them to. Where deadlines are concerned, I need go getters. And when I'm like, one of the things that I've also learned within the business is that we have a lot of, in my company, we have people who come up with brilliant ideas, who are the smartest, but I need executors. If you're not, I don't give a fuck about your idea if you're not the person to get it done.

• 1:05:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:05:09Emma Grede?

  Facts.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  Like, we can talk about how great this idea is all day, but I need executors. I'm an executor and I, but I can only execute so much. So I need you to be the ideator and the executor along with me and do it well. And so that is a thing. And that's like my, my biggest pet peeve is someone coming at me with, coming at me with the, we should be doing this. We should do this, do this. And I'm like, oh, that's great. Do you mean I should be doing it then? Cause what, what, then what, how are we gonna get it done? Cause I'm already doing this, this and this. So like, help me.

• 1:05:40Emma Grede?

  I feel like that's a great lesson though, for any business owner and founder, because I call it having an enterprise mentality. Because to me, you have to put the business first. In the times when I have taken a person that I have a certain affinity for and tried to mold something for them, it's never worked out for the company. And so to me, having an enterprise mentality means you might be amazing, but what I need for this company right now is something else. So you've got to go and take your amazing somewhere else and that will be ready for you too.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Emma Grede?

  Eventually, even though you don't know now, and I might be the first person to tell you, but that doesn't matter. And so I think learning to have an enterprise mentality, what is best for the business is the decision that you have to make as the owner of the business and then everything else has to figure it's.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  I needed to hear that. I needed to hear that. And there's also like, yeah, I'm a loyal person too and also. Trying to separate loyalty from, I guess, your the enterprise mentality. Cause it's just like, just because someone has been with you for a long time, doesn't mean they need to come with you for every chapter. Maybe they've served their purpose.

• 1:06:46Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  That sometimes doesn't feel right to me, but I have to, like, business is business and I have to have a business mindset.

• 1:06:54Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it's very, very, very difficult and I, I feel like as somebody that's grown companies, you know, I always talk about it's the people that you started with. They're always the ones that take you to where you necessarily wanna go.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:06Emma Grede?

  The framework that always really helped me is that I always think when somebody's sitting in a seat, that perhaps they shouldn't be. I don't think about that person. I think about the person that should be in the seat.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 1:07:17Emma Grede?

  I'm like, you're actually stopping, like, I'm like, get out of the seat. No, but you know what I mean? It's like, you're actually stopping the person that needs that role from having that role. You see how I do this?

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  I love it. You're just burning a hole in the chair.

• 1:07:32Emma Grede?

  Yeah, literally with my eyes and every part of me. No, but I think that it's really.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  So true though.

• 1:07:38Emma Grede?

  It's like, cause you need other things and, and usually my experience is it actually benefits that person as well. Cause people know when they're tired of stuff. They know when they've come to the end of the road. It's so hard for them to say, it's so hard for you to say. But you check in with that person six months later, they're like, oh my God, I'm killing it over here.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:56Emma Grede?

  Cause now I'm valued and now I'm in and now I'm like wanted and like, everyone was feeling it.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  That was me as an employee, I gotta say. I've discovered, I realized that a few years ago, I was like, I was such a bad employee. Because I wasn't in the right place.

• 1:08:11Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:08:12Speaker 02

  I needed to be somewhere else and I needed that, that like, I need, I've never been fired. I've never been fired. I've never been fired. But I should have been. I should have been. I should have been. There were a few jobs where I clearly. One job I tried to like come in and give it my all and then as soon as they shut down my ideas, I was like, y'all don't deserve me. And I did the quiet quitting thing, um, and did the bare minimum. I should have been fired.

• 1:08:38Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  But like, I needed to be out of certain jobs to, to.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Be who I am and where I am today.

• 1:08:47Emma Grede?

  Fair. What do you hope that other women that are forging a path in your in your image or, you know, are trying to have the type of career that you've had? What do you hope they will learn from your journey?

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  I mean, I I trust myself a lot. And now, I didn't enough early on, like those those times when I forgot

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  why I was here, why I was in the room. When I second guessed it, I wasted a lot of time. And yeah, I had to go through those things to to ultimately gain the confidence to to feel like I belonged in these rooms. But like, I spent so much time second guessing that, that

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  like, I I would encourage other women to just always remember, like, always remember

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  why you belong in certain spaces, what your strengths are. So in the same way that Larry told me, like, protect what this story is, protect, protect this, like, always remember, like, I am fucking good at this. No one can ever take this away from me. These are my strong suits. I always have this. And no matter what, like, I can rest confidently knowing, like, I am good at this core thing, these core things. And then I'll be okay. Then I can, then I'm like, all the other things will bounce off of me, like, all the other doubts that people I may feel people have about me don't matter because I know this deep within myself that this is what I'm great at. And I feel like I have

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  that where I'm like, I know what I'm really, really good at. And I think my strengths are also recognizing what I'm not good at and asking for help. So I guess, yeah, for women, knowing what you're good at and also don't be afraid to like. Ask about what you don't know.

• 1:10:49Emma Grede?

  What do you still aspire to do or become?

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  I always say better. And I don't know what that means in the moment, but I can look like at this year and be like, I'm better than I was last year. I know that. I've never regressed.

• 1:11:03Emma Grede?

  She doesn't go backwards.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  No. Aspire to become the second phase of my life, I'm still figuring out. I aspire to figure that out.

• 1:11:12Emma Grede?

  That's pretty amazing. I love it. That's just, I love it. You're honest.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  I am.

• 1:11:18Emma Grede?

  You really are.

• 1:11:22Emma Grede?

  So before we wrap, a quick reminder that Start With Yourself is available for pre-order and tickets for the live shows are available now. Starting April 15th, we're coming to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, DC, Boston, Atlanta, and London. Visit emigre.com for tickets and full tour details. I cannot wait.

• 1:11:43Emma Grede?

  Babe, I only have some rapid fire questions for you and I'm going to get you out right on time. All right, first rapid fire, which is impossible for me because I'm so long-winded. Okay. What is your comfort classic TV show?

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Can I just, it's a classic, it's any dating reality show. Like I will watch.

• 1:12:01Emma Grede?

  Dating reality?

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  That's what I.

• 1:12:02Emma Grede?

  Love Island, like what?

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  I love Love Island.

• 1:12:05Emma Grede?

  The English one or the American one? Which one?

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  I actually started with the American one.

• 1:12:08Emma Grede?

  Oh, you did?

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've never seen the English one.

• 1:12:11Emma Grede?

  Oh, I think that's the best one.

• 1:12:12Speaker 02

  I know, I've heard, but I didn't have, because I don't have all the streaming services.

• 1:12:15Emma Grede?

  Oh, because you got off all your apps because you're so cheap.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  But now that I got them, I got gifted one of those things, so I'm gonna watch UK.

• 1:12:23Emma Grede?

  I mean, I've never seen it.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  You've never actually seen it over here?

• 1:12:26Emma Grede?

  No, I've never seen it.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  I think that's the best one.

• 1:12:28Emma Grede?

  Well, that's what I heard, okay?

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  So that, I used to watch Love is Blind. I love The Ultimatum. I can't wait for it to come back. There's a.

• 1:12:37Emma Grede?

  You like trash. You're looking trash.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  But this has to be, I like watching people be attracted to each other.

• 1:12:43Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  And like falling in love.

• 1:12:46Emma Grede?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  And so like those shows give me that.

• 1:12:50Emma Grede?

  All right, what song best captures this chapter of your life?

• 1:12:54Speaker 02

  This is gonna piss me off cuz I have one and there's too many. I guess I'll say Elmin has a song called Reclusive and he's my favorite. And it's that's how I feel right now. I feel like I'm in a kind of reclusive state so that I can do what I need to do.

• 1:13:11Emma Grede?

  What are you still learning to say no to?

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  I'm still, despite trying to be less accessible, still learning to say no to that classic, hey, can we meet up for coffee or can I pick your brain? I'm getting better, but I'm I'm gonna say no. So if you ask me and I don't respond, that's why I don't wanna I don't wanna do I can.

• 1:13:31Emma Grede?

  What is a genre you're curious about exploring that people might feel surprised by?

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  I like genre, literal genre sci fi. I like it a lot, but I like grounded sci fi.

• 1:13:43Emma Grede?

  What's grounded sci fi?

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  It's like I'm not doing like aliens and I don't like fantasy.

• 1:13:50Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  But I like dystopian.

• 1:13:53Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  I like dystopian dramas and drama D's.

• 1:13:58Emma Grede?

  Okay, we are, we're ready for that, I feel. What's a book that changed your life?

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  Uh, The Courage to be Disliked.

• 1:14:04Emma Grede?

  It's a great one. Okay, final, final question. What is something that you aspired for or to when you were starting out that you no longer aspire to?

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  Going to industry parties? I don't, I don't need to be there.

• 1:14:21Emma Grede?

  She's not gonna.

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  I'm not going. Also, you know what? I've in my reclusive state, I'm not watching as many things. You see, I just told you what I watch. Like, I watch a lot of trash TV with the occasional show that everybody's talking about, that I'm excited about. But when I go to these events and I don't know people, I feel so embarrassed. I feel deeply embarrassed that I do not recognize you from your show or movie cuz I'm not up on it. So I would rather stay at home.

• 1:14:51Emma Grede?

  Even though everyone knows who you are?

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  I don't want that, that's worse. If someone knows you and is like also complimenting you and you can't give it back.

• 1:15:00Emma Grede?

  That is very interesting.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  It happened to me, actually just recently. I was doing a music video for an artist that I'm a fan of and I hadn't seen this show that everybody was looking, cuz I just I was working and I hadn't gotten to it yet. And I met a girl and I was like, oh, are you in the band? And she was like, oh, yeah, kinda. And then I walked out and my hair and makeup was like. You know who that was, right? I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. So that would be my everyday occurrence. You said what?

• 1:15:33Emma Grede?

  I said, stay home.

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  You stay home. I will stay home. Thank you. You've given me the permission. I will remain at home. Thank you.

• 1:15:40Emma Grede?

  You're just wonderful. You are the least disappointing person that I really wanted to meet.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  Thank you. I received that. I am honored. Thank you. But thank you for the amazing questions.

• 1:15:55Emma Grede?

  Wonderful.

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  You made me really think and that it hurts a little, but thank you.

• 1:15:59Emma Grede?

  I'm happy to hurt you. You're still a one of one in my mind.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:16:09Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren LaGrasso, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman.

• 1:16:54Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.