‘Wild Things’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mallory Rubin

People aren't always what they appear to be. Don't forget that. The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mallory Rubin head down to Blue Bay to investigate the 1998 erotic thriller ‘Wild Things,’ starring Matt Dillon, Kevin Bacon, Denise Richards, and Neve Campbell. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Matt Pevic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink. Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion. It even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream. Don't get angry, get orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com. Angry Orchard, cider company, LLC. Angryorchard.com. Please drink responsibly. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  I'm pro-football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit mddallies.com to watch my story.

• 1:03Speaker 02

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• 1:15Speaker 03

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 1:35Speaker 02

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• 2:02Speaker 03

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 2:14Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables is brought to by The Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find Higher Learning.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:19Bill Simmons?

  With Van Lathan.

• 2:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:21Bill Simmons?

  Midnight Post.

• 2:22Speaker 04

  Peep, peep.

• 2:22Bill Simmons?

  Peep, peep. And Ringer Tailgate.

• 2:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:26Bill Simmons?

  The best new show of 2025.

• 2:28Speaker 04

  Racer.

• 2:28Speaker 05

  It's very special.

• 2:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:30Bill Simmons?

  Somebody sent me a listener email saying that Joel Anderson was like a fourth round. What did he say, fourth round?

• 2:38Speaker 04

  He said a fourth round, a fourth round defensive end that has 15 sacks in their rookie year.

• 2:44Bill Simmons?

  Just comes out of nowhere. That was the description, Joel Anderson. I said insult and a compliment.

• 2:49Speaker 05

  Absolutely. Frankly, how dare that person?

• 2:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:51Speaker 05

  Joel, number one draft pick.

• 2:52Bill Simmons?

  But also gave him 15 sacks, which was a compliment.

• 2:55Speaker 04

  Trey Henderson.

• 2:55Bill Simmons?

  Really in the game. Yeah.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:56Bill Simmons?

  It was a Trey Anderson thing.

• 2:57Speaker 05

  Five star recruit, number one draft pick, 15 sacks, Rookie of the Year.

• 3:01Speaker 04

  Whole thing.

• 3:01Speaker 05

  Hall of Fame.

• 3:02Bill Simmons?

  MVP in between, all of it. You did the dress up trick.

• 3:05Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 3:06Speaker 05

  That was just a genuinely incredible moment.

• 3:08Speaker 04

  Man, we, the show started, the show, the show was rolling and then two things happened to the show that we could not have predicted. Number one, Joel is just.

• 3:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 3:16Speaker 04

  I can't explain it. And then when Billy came in, Billy knew how to harness it.

• 3:22Bill Simmons?

  Tells all of them to dress up in suits.

• 3:24Speaker 05

  When you say how to harness it, you mean make fun of Joel every 15 minutes?

• 3:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, man. Yeah.

• 3:29Bill Simmons?

  What a show.

• 3:30Speaker 04

  What a show, guys.

• 3:30Bill Simmons?

  Best new show of 2025. No awards yet, but that, I, I just gave one. Malu Rubin.

• 3:35Speaker 05

  Hello.

• 3:35Bill Simmons?

  You see her in House of R.

• 3:36Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 3:38Bill Simmons?

  I don't like to pigeonhole you as we only bring you into the Rewatchables for a certain type of genres and things.

• 3:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:43Bill Simmons?

  But you are being pigeonholed lately, so we're gonna have to zag at some point.

• 3:46Speaker 05

  I would say that there's an erotic thriller.

• 3:49Bill Simmons?

  Harrison Ford.

• 3:50Speaker 05

  Stuff, Harrison Ford, sports movie.

• 3:55Bill Simmons?

  Maybe we just do a generic rom com in 2025 with none of those things.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  That would be great. I'm still being, I'm still waiting to, to be invited for my actual area of expertise, which is a science fiction or fantasy film, waiting for the Blade Runner call.

• 4:09Bill Simmons?

  As soon as we run out of movies, it'll happen. Blade Runner.

• 4:11Speaker 04

  Blade Runner would be fantastic. Have you seen Blade Runner?

• 4:14Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 4:15Bill Simmons?

  Something in the theater.

• 4:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:17Bill Simmons?

  Long. Age 12, long, long movie. This is not a long movie.

• 4:24Speaker 05

  No.

• 4:24Bill Simmons?

  It's an amazing movie. It's Wild Things, and it's next.

• 4:41Bill Simmons?

  Wild Things, 1998. They don't make them like this anymore.

• 4:44Speaker 05

  No, they're not allowed. They're not allowed to make them like this anymore.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  You can't do it.

• 4:49Bill Simmons?

  They try to make this. They do either crazier versions of this or tamer versions of this. They never hit the sweet spot. Erotic thriller, black comedy, campy thriller, sweaty masterpiece, most expensive lifetime movie ever made.

• 5:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:04Bill Simmons?

  Those are the five genres. What am I missing?

• 5:06Speaker 04

  Um.

• 5:07Bill Simmons?

  Softcore porn?

• 5:09Speaker 04

  Erotic thriller for the MTV generation.

• 5:12Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  So after a whole decade of erotic thrillers, really, I guess you could make, you can make arguments for other decades, but for me, the 90s is the sweet spot, the classic era.

• 5:23Bill Simmons?

  Starts with Fatal Attraction.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  Starts with Fatal Attraction.

• 5:25Speaker 05

  Which we've done.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  Fatal Attraction.

• 5:26Bill Simmons?

  Comes through for the next 10 years.

• 5:28Speaker 04

  Disclosure, Indecent Proposal.

• 5:30Bill Simmons?

  Hannah Rock's The Cradle.

• 5:31Speaker 04

  Hannah Rock's The Cradle. Sliver Body of Evidence. But.

• 5:34Bill Simmons?

  Based Against Thing. Peaks.

• 5:35Speaker 04

  By the time you get to the end of the decade, some of the younger people who have grown up on those movies are old enough to go to the theaters to have their own version of it. So you bring in two young stars like Denise Richards, who's brand new, and then Neve Campbell from Party of Five. You make the movie, make it some scandal, and then boom, you get people in the theaters.

• 5:57Speaker 05

  I just want to say brave of you to open with sweaty masterpiece, which had really high likelihood of turning into an incredible Freudian slip. Just amazing work from you there.

• 6:06Bill Simmons?

  Sweaty mass.

• 6:07Speaker 05

  I didn't know where it was gonna go.

• 6:09Bill Simmons?

  Thank you.

• 6:10Speaker 05

  Didn't know where it was gonna go. This movie came out in 98, so I was in middle school. And let me say that this was one of three staples in Reisterstown, Maryland, for young people of a certain age at the sleepover or party, parents have gone upstairs, what are we putting on? It was Wild Things, Cruel Intentions, or American Pie.

• 6:29Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 6:30Speaker 05

  Late middle school into early high school. Just frankly to the point where.

• 6:34Bill Simmons?

  It's a great era.

• 6:35Speaker 05

  I think we were just watching the motel threesome in the pool scene, and I, until I revisited this as an adult, I don't think I actually recalled what the movie was about or what happened in it.

• 6:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 05

  Just thought it was about fucking, which in some ways it is.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  And that's funny because being a guy.

• 6:51Speaker 04

  Eighteen, seventeen, eighteen at that time, that saw Denise Richards. Automatic entry into the white girl Hall of Fame.

• 7:00Speaker 05

  Very memorable.

• 7:00Speaker 04

  Auto entry, right? You went to-

• 7:03Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, it's like the Dante Culpepper Viking season.

• 7:08Bill Simmons?

  Whenever that year was when he had like forty-eight TDs.

• 7:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, five thousand yards.

• 7:13Bill Simmons?

  Then you look at Pro Football Reference later, you're like, whoa, those stats were crazy.

• 7:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:17Bill Simmons?

  That was her.

• 7:17Speaker 04

  Nuts.

• 7:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 04

  So you go to the movie and if you were just a little bit older, the movie at that point, when I first saw it, didn't have enough nudity and sex for me. I expected more.

• 7:31Bill Simmons?

  It's gonna be a topic in the pod.

• 7:32Speaker 04

  I expected more and I remember being like an hour into the movie. It's like, yo, is this a courtroom thriller? Like, what the fuck is going on with the movie?

• 7:40Bill Simmons?

  Cruel Intentions was like that, too. It's a really horny movie that's not as sexual as it seems like it should have or could have been.

• 7:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I do think you're right, though, that the second half of the movie really has like a grip on the collective consciousness. And when you revisit it, you're like, am I watching like Presumed Innocent?

• 7:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 7:55Speaker 05

  What is this exactly? And then it radically shifts at the moment of the first twist being revealed. And of course, there are, you know, as many twists to come as there are endings of Return of the King. Continuing my streak of mentioning Lord of the Rings here in front of Bill, even until he watches one of those movies.

• 8:10Bill Simmons?

  Didn't know, I don't even know what that is.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  You're really missing out, man.

• 8:13Bill Simmons?

  The Amazon show?

• 8:14Speaker 05

  Even Craig, oh, the Amazon show I would also recommend, Rings of Power, yeah.

• 8:18Bill Simmons?

  Can we go back to the late nineties?

• 8:19Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 8:20Speaker 05

  Let's do it.

• 8:21Bill Simmons?

  There's just a real sexual energy brewing in the late nineties. We have magic, the HIV announcements, November ninety-one. Hold on, I'm gonna land the plane, settle down.

• 8:34Bill Simmons?

  Hold on, hold on.

• 8:35Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 8:36Bill Simmons?

  Hold on. I just put the wheels down, I put the wheels down, I'm gonna land.

• 8:41Speaker 04

  Alright.

• 8:42Bill Simmons?

  I was in college during this time. There's a real kind of fear of HIV/AIDS.

• 8:47Speaker 05

  There's a real fear right now in this room as you, as you say these things, go ahead.

• 8:51Bill Simmons?

  By the time we hit the late nineties, people are like, fuck it.

• 8:55Speaker 04

  It's back.

• 8:55Bill Simmons?

  Let's get our freak on again.

• 8:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:57Bill Simmons?

  Let's-

• 8:59Bill Simmons?

  I'm not scared anymore. Let's go.

• 9:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:00Bill Simmons?

  And you could feel it trickle into the TV shows and the movies and the music. We have Maxim magazines kicking it up.

• 9:07Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 9:07Bill Simmons?

  MTV Spring Break. Sex tapes are just popping out left and right with celebrities. WWE Attitude Era.

• 9:14Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 9:14Bill Simmons?

  And the Divas.

• 9:15Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 9:16Bill Simmons?

  Britney Spears is about to come into the scene as like whatever she was trying to do. Uh, Shannon Elizabeth and American Pie.

• 9:23Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 9:24Bill Simmons?

  Anna Kournikova, Woodstock 99, everyone's topless.

• 9:27Speaker 05

  Of course, yes.

• 9:28Bill Simmons?

  Jerry Springer.

• 9:28Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 9:29Bill Simmons?

  Girls Gone Wild.

• 9:30Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 9:30Bill Simmons?

  Like, we just kind of fucking lose our mind in the late 90s and this movie fits in. See, I landed the plane.

• 9:35Speaker 04

  I, I, yeah, you, you did. I actually think that something, you, you did.

• 9:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  I think that something.

• 9:42Speaker 05

  He adjusted the winch.

• 9:43Speaker 04

  Right.

• 9:43Speaker 05

  Got the sail right where it needed to be.

• 9:45Bill Simmons?

  I was like, what, Denzel and Flight.

• 9:47Speaker 05

  You don't drive a boat, you sail it.

• 9:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 9:50Speaker 05

  You know?

• 9:50Bill Simmons?

  It's never word.

• 9:51Speaker 04

  All kinds of stuff, like you missed other things that were just like, well, not the ease wild on. Where they would go and show people in bikinis gyrating in Ibiza and all of that stuff. Howard Stern would be on there. You turn on Stern.

• 10:05Bill Simmons?

  Howard Stern's another one.

• 10:05Speaker 04

  And it would be like, oh, the, the, the lesbian contest of Long, Long Island or whatever. You'd see porn stars on there.

• 10:11Bill Simmons?

  We had Skinamax.

• 10:13Speaker 04

  Skinamax.

• 10:14Bill Simmons?

  Cinemax, Showtime, all those places.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  Jenna Jameson becomes a mainstream star. She becomes somebody that people just know.

• 10:20Bill Simmons?

  America had its horns on.

• 10:22Speaker 04

  It did. And then what happened was, in my opinion, the reason why things are actually opposite now is because the rise of the internet and pornography.

• 10:32Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 10:32Speaker 04

  Took all of that sexuality out of the mainstream.

• 10:35Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 10:35Speaker 04

  It put it back in your pocket. So it was something that you could do.

• 10:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 04

  While you're in, you could go enjoy your serious movies and your serious stuff like on the screen. It didn't have to be sexy because you could watch the wildest shit just on your phone or on your.

• 10:50Speaker 05

  Here's my question, why not both?

• 10:52Speaker 04

  I, I agree.

• 10:53Speaker 05

  Why do we have to make a choice like that? Why not have erotic thrillers and lots of sex in our movies and be able to program your particular algorithm and filters for whatever suits your needs?

• 11:01Bill Simmons?

  But we have, we have too much of it now, which is like.

• 11:03Speaker 05

  Too much of what?

• 11:04Bill Simmons?

  There's too, you can find anything you want now.

• 11:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:07Bill Simmons?

  1998, this is still the, the local video store that had the swinging cowboy doors. That you like went behind and there are all the porn titles. And this was, Wild Things comes out and everybody's like, holy shit, I heard there's a threesome. More than at the same times.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  And then there's just something else, like, there was a certain, there was a certain type of star, particularly a lady star, that burst onto the scene with their sexuality and then mainstreamed it out with like a serious role.

• 11:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, we gotta talk about that. Yeah, well, but the TV stars, the teen stars moving into this world.

• 11:45Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 11:45Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 11:46Bill Simmons?

  Was like a formula.

• 11:47Speaker 04

  But there is something different now, like, after the fappening and you actually saw.

• 11:54Bill Simmons?

  Fappening, wow.

• 11:55Speaker 04

  It's true. After the fappening and you actually saw.

• 11:58Bill Simmons?

  You worried about me flying the plane?

• 11:59Speaker 04

  Oh, just listen, after that happened.

• 12:01Speaker 05

  I'm just in the presence of two of the greats. It's just an honor to be here. It's an honor to be here.

• 12:06Speaker 04

  After you saw, and this is, you know, after you saw all of those ladies naked for real.

• 12:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  Like, they just didn't have to, like, they didn't have to be erotic on screen anymore. They could, like, stay, it's just totally different, the way people come to an actor or actress's sexuality anymore.

• 12:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, also, we were talking about Thrones before we started taping, because I've been rewatching it.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:26Bill Simmons?

  Think of how many shows pushed the envelope from 1998 on.

• 12:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:30Bill Simmons?

  And like even Industry, which you haven't seen this week's episode.

• 12:33Speaker 05

  I'm one behind, yeah.

• 12:34Bill Simmons?

  Just a, just a violating sexual scene moment.

• 12:39Speaker 05

  You can count on some explicit content in every episode of Industry without question.

• 12:42Bill Simmons?

  You think like going back to the early 2000s all the way through and even, even Oz was doing this in the late 90s, but.

• 12:48Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, of course, yeah.

• 12:49Bill Simmons?

  But then Thrones pushing the envelope and all these other shows and how far can we go, how far can we go? Wild things, like, that seems really tame now, when it's like.

• 12:57Speaker 05

  It does.

• 12:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, we have a threesome, it's like, this would be like, this would get rejected in the Dragon meeting. What's the show called? House of the Dragon?

• 13:04Speaker 05

  Yes, House of the Dragon is one of the spinoffs. Have you watched The Night of the Seven Kingdoms yet?

• 13:08Bill Simmons?

  Haven't watched that either.

• 13:09Speaker 05

  There is a gigantic, gigantic cock at the beginning of episode two.

• 13:13Bill Simmons?

  Everyone's talking about this giant penis.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 05

  Very, very, very memorable.

• 13:18Bill Simmons?

  Piece about the biggest penises in HBO history.

• 13:20Speaker 05

  It was some required journalism.

• 13:22Bill Simmons?

  Inconceivable in 1998, because this movie has a penis for a split second from Kevin Bacon.

• 13:27Speaker 05

  That's right, little shower flash.

• 13:28Bill Simmons?

  And it became like a cultural phenomenon that year that he flashed.

• 13:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:32Bill Simmons?

  Nobody could believe it.

• 13:33Speaker 04

  He flashed, there were, there was a couple of notable penises that, like, cause Bruce Willis's penis.

• 13:38Speaker 05

  Uh huh, sure.

• 13:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, color night.

• 13:40Speaker 04

  Color of night, so his penis and then, but the bacon penis flash became, he was going around doing press and being asked about it every time he did press.

• 13:50Speaker 05

  Yes, I like the, the quotes that he's had over the years about how this was like an obsession in the American media, but in Europe, nobody even, not only did they not care, they didn't even comment on it because, you know, in Europe, they're much freer with their bodies, right? And nudity is more common, but it was a, uh, something that people talked about here in the, the States for so long that like, what was it, 10 years ago, 2015, he put out the Free the Bacon PSA, you know? Great, great bit, still lives on to this day.

• 14:15Bill Simmons?

  And Wahlberg was dealing with it too, at Boogie Nights, when it was like, is that real or fake?

• 14:19Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 14:19Bill Simmons?

  But this was a penis hair. Craig, as you hear us talk about this, do we sound like we're 100 years old?

• 14:26Speaker 06

  Um, no, cause even when I came up, I, I don't know, I do feel like there's a bit of a bounce back right now with nudity on screen. I think there was a period where that, it was completely gone and there is now a bit of people kind of taking control of it again and, and, and feeling confident about doing nudity on screen. People like, obviously like Sydney Sweeney, Jennifer Lawrence has done nudity in multiple movies like in the last five years.

• 14:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 14:49Speaker 06

  In the late 2010s, that had kind of gone away.

• 14:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're right.

• 14:52Speaker 06

  And now it's starting to come back again.

• 14:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:55Bill Simmons?

  Well, when we did just one of the guys, sadly you were not, and I know you were devastated.

• 15:00Speaker 04

  That's.

• 15:00Bill Simmons?

  Only have three seats.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  I get it, but, you know.

• 15:03Bill Simmons?

  But Joyce Heiser didn't know if she wanted to get naked or not, and Rosanne Arquette

• 15:07Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:07Bill Simmons?

  Um, was basically, they were debating it and one of the things they mentioned was like, when you, when you get older, you're gonna be glad you did it. Cause you look great. You'll be like 60, 70, it'll be like, look how great I looked and whatever. And I wonder maybe if that's flipped too with some of these actors.

• 15:23Speaker 06

  It was in the hands of the producers and now it's in the hands of the stars.

• 15:26Bill Simmons?

  True, 100%.

• 15:26Speaker 04

  Well, there's something else that exists now that didn't exist then. There was, obviously there's subtext to all of these conversations about how these scenes actually played out on set.

• 15:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 04

  Now there are intimacy coordinators that exist on set to make sure that the actors and actresses aren't doing anything that they want to do.

• 15:44Speaker 06

  Now, if you see nudity on screen, you know, hopefully that everybody involved was comfortable with this and wanted to do it.

• 15:50Speaker 04

  Exactly. Now you feel, because, you know, HBO is not gonna hang their ass out in the air by not having the intimacy coordinator on set in case somebody comes back and says.

• 16:01Speaker 04

  You want intimacy coordinator?

• 16:02Bill Simmons?

  No, you have to bring him in right now. It's Sean Fantasy.

• 16:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. Silent judge?

• 16:07Bill Simmons?

  The assistant coordinator.

• 16:08Speaker 05

  The silent judge?

• 16:09Bill Simmons?

  Silent judge, just kind of staring us down.

• 16:11Speaker 05

  Unfortunately, he's not prepared to comment because he curled up into the fetal position so that he didn't have to hear anything we said about this movie, so.

• 16:17Bill Simmons?

  True. Well, no, is Neve Campbell counted as a redhead in this? Not totally.

• 16:22Speaker 05

  No, I mean, some dyed hair, but it's interesting that there are like different versions of the nudity in this movie. You obviously have the very memorable Denise Richards Kelly nudity, very memorable, impacted a lot of lives.

• 16:35Bill Simmons?

  Kelly Van Ryan.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 05

  Important stuff. Then you have Neve Campbell and the fact that Party of Five was still going, the contract didn't allow for nudity in other projects. So you have these scenes.

• 16:48Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if I believe that.

• 16:49Speaker 05

  Who knows? Both the.

• 16:50Bill Simmons?

  It was in the internet research.

• 16:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. Both the threesome scene and I'm sure we'll talk about the unrated cut and the extended pool scene. But both of those are like, you get the back, the shirt is removed or the top is removed to get the back, but we're not seeing the front. And then the Kevin Bacon story is like, I didn't, it was actually in my contract that I would not do nudity. And I did not think I was going to be naked in this movie. And then that cut.

• 17:16Speaker 05

  That uncut.

• 17:17Speaker 04

  Butt to, butt to penis. He does, gives butt and he turns around to penis.

• 17:20Speaker 05

  And they're like, can we use this take? And he says, you know, how do I look? Sure, go for it.

• 17:23Bill Simmons?

  I don't believe that one either.

• 17:25Speaker 05

  You think he wanted the dick in there the whole time?

• 17:27Bill Simmons?

  I think it was a hundred percent. It was like, oh, I didn't realize.

• 17:30Speaker 04

  Do you know that like the.

• 17:32Speaker 05

  I like that theory.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  The scene of the dick.

• 17:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  From Kevin Bacon was, for me, Kevin Bacon had been with me for a while at that point.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  Sure, of course, yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 04

  The big picture, like just all of the.

• 17:44Speaker 05

  Footloose.

• 17:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, Footloose. And then you're 18 and you're like, tits, yo, you're in the theaters in Baton Rouge, like, yo, was that his dick?

• 17:52Speaker 05

  Sure was.

• 17:53Speaker 04

  You put the dick and then for a second you're a little mad, like, why you put the dick in my face like that? And then you're like, oh, okay, well, I know this guy.

• 17:58Bill Simmons?

  That's the difference in movie theater experience versus like watching this at home.

• 18:03Speaker 05

  The sheer size.

• 18:05Bill Simmons?

  On a 50 foot movie screen?

• 18:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:07Bill Simmons?

  That dick's coming at you.

• 18:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:08Bill Simmons?

  Like Corinna, Bruce Willis.

• 18:10Speaker 04

  Again, freezing.

• 18:11Bill Simmons?

  Bruce, put that thing away. Just trying to sit here and have some popcorn.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  But when I think about it, Oz, Oz is probably.

• 18:19Bill Simmons?

  Oz broke out the dicks.

• 18:20Speaker 04

  Scene for scene.

• 18:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  That is the most, that's the pioneering dick show, at least in my life.

• 18:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, they said Euphoria is Apex Mountain for dicks.

• 18:29Speaker 04

  Ah, damn.

• 18:30Bill Simmons?

  They had a special dick episode.

• 18:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course, right, the math is skewed because of the locker room sequence where you get, you know, dozens and dozens and dozens of dicks in one sequence.

• 18:38Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 18:39Bill Simmons?

  Lots of dicks. Neve Campbell fell, fell in love with her America, Party of Five. That tortured Salinger family, lost their kids in a car accident, had to keep the restaurant. Just one terrible thing after another would happen to those crazy kids and.

• 18:56Speaker 04

  Party of Five.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:57Bill Simmons?

  I love that show.

• 18:58Speaker 04

  So I, I never fucked with it.

• 19:00Bill Simmons?

  May or may not own it on Roku or Vudu, one of those.

• 19:03Speaker 04

  But when you think about it.

• 19:05Speaker 05

  Old DVD box set, no?

• 19:06Bill Simmons?

  Matthew Fox. 999 special, I was like, fine.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  Matthew Fox, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Neve Campbell.

• 19:12Bill Simmons?

  Jay Love.

• 19:12Speaker 04

  Uh.

• 19:13Bill Simmons?

  Scott Wolf.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  Scott Wolf, Lisa Chabot, like that.

• 19:16Bill Simmons?

  One of the Lunden's. Not, not, not, uh, Dazed and Confused, but the.

• 19:22Speaker 04

  The other Lunden.

• 19:23Bill Simmons?

  The other Lunden, not Randy Pink Floyd, but his brother.

• 19:25Speaker 04

  You know, the show went on to put a bunch of people in our lives that stayed there for a while. It's like, it's a sneaky, good, like incubator for future Hollywood stalwarts. Neve Campbell, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Matthew Fox, at least they're all still around.

• 19:38Bill Simmons?

  Very important 90's show for talking to women.

• 19:42Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 19:43Bill Simmons?

  Being able to be versed in some of the shows that were coming on.

• 19:46Speaker 05

  Oh, because it gave you something to talk about with them, not because it taught you how to talk to women?

• 19:51Bill Simmons?

  No, not because it taught me.

• 19:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 19:53Bill Simmons?

  It was just a nice little, oh, Party of Five, yeah, what the fuck's going on with Bailey? He's drinking again? Do you like, what, you watch Party of Five?

• 19:59Speaker 05

  Which, which show or movie?

• 20:00Bill Simmons?

  Five minutes right now.

• 20:01Speaker 05

  Which show or movie taught you how to talk to women?

• 20:03Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 20:03Speaker 05

  Wild Things?

• 20:04Bill Simmons?

  Which show or movie taught me?

• 20:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:06Bill Simmons?

  Well, you have to go to the 80's for that, right?

• 20:08Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm interested in this. What's the conversation?

• 20:10Bill Simmons?

  I mean, I would say it's more what taught you not to.

• 20:13Speaker 05

  Hmm, okay. So more like tales of caution, what to avoid.

• 20:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like.

• 20:19Speaker 05

  Knowing you're modeling your behavior after.

• 20:20Speaker 04

  Who you don't wanna be, the character you don't wanna be in the movie.

• 20:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Interesting.

• 20:25Speaker 04

  Who are those guys?

• 20:26Bill Simmons?

  Who are those guys? It's more like the When Harry Met Sally type of people.

• 20:28Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 20:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the people that were mean and then came around.

• 20:31Speaker 04

  Johnny Lawrence, don't wanna be him.

• 20:34Bill Simmons?

  Don't wanna be the villains.

• 20:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:35Bill Simmons?

  Neve Campbell, Party of Five. This is the era of they take the person out of the TV show that everybody's watching. Party of Five almost got canceled every year. It was always after like 90210 or whatever Fox show. It was very beloved. People would try to save it. The audience was always just good enough to keep.

• 20:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:53Bill Simmons?

  But it became this movie engine with her and Jennifer Love Hewitt. So she's in The Craft. She's the lead in Scream, which was a big deal.

• 21:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:01Bill Simmons?

  She's in Scream 2 and she's in Wild Things. During this whole thing, she has to turn down Armageddon because of conflicts with Party of Five. And then it kind of tails off after that. But I think her problem, the peak of her run makes sense. Cause she was really kind of a one move actress. It was kind of a.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Perfect 90s actress.

• 21:23Bill Simmons?

  Fan.

• 21:25Bill Simmons?

  He's like a little bit like squinty, but you still liked her anyway. And you, but maybe there was a little more under there. And I don't know where there were a lot of places for her to go.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  Like she had a vulnerability that made sense in that decade.

• 21:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you felt like you were rooting for her.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Right, right. And then.

• 21:40Bill Simmons?

  Which she hits in this movie.

• 21:41Speaker 04

  What she totally hits it, right? She hits it in The Craft as well. Almost like the same character. Like between this and the, it's very, very similar. And then like you wanted to see a different pitch from her in the 2000s.

• 21:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, remember season 54, she plays this big demonstrative actress, like in the cocaine era. And it was just like, nah, you're near, yeah, I have too much history with you as like this really thoughtful.

• 22:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:04Bill Simmons?

  Sensitive.

• 22:05Speaker 05

  Too much history. It sounds like more of a you problem than a Neve Campbell problem.

• 22:08Bill Simmons?

  Might have been a me problem.

• 22:09Speaker 05

  Something to reflect on.

• 22:10Bill Simmons?

  But I was, I was liked her. I was thought, uh, I was thought on Party of Five, I thought she was good on that show.

• 22:14Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:15Bill Simmons?

  But that was, it was one of my, uh, favorite dumb dramas. What's your Neve Campbell experiences, Mel?

• 22:20Speaker 05

  You know, I think the missing, uh, slice of the Neve Campbell pie for me is just the Scream movies because I don't, as you guys know, I don't do horror movies. So, but, but even just the, the heft, like the grip that they had on the culture at that stretch of time in the nineties, it was inescapable. And so I had a, a, a sense of her prominence in those films and the way that those movies and that inspiring scary movie, et cetera, right? Like even though I wasn't watching them, I still had a good feel for them. But yeah, Party of Five was a big deal for kids my age. And then this movie was like, you know, obviously the movie in general, but certainly, yeah, what we're getting from Neve Campbell in the movie, what we're getting from the Suzy character.

• 22:56Speaker 05

  The kind of like salacious, tawdry aspect of the story, which like, you know, I think the deployment of Suzy and Kelly and Sam and Ray, and really everything in the film. I mean, the, the mother, Sandra, maybe in some ways, most of all, actually I can't wait to talk more about Sandra.

• 23:11Speaker 04

  It's true, you were her too.

• 23:12Speaker 05

  You know, you, you think about the movie and you're like, is this a good movie?

• 23:15Bill Simmons?

  Does it matter?

• 23:15Speaker 05

  It doesn't matter. It's so watchable. It is so inherently watchable and entertaining. And the Neve Campbell Suzy performance is just a huge part of that.

• 23:25Bill Simmons?

  Also important that it was surprising that she was in this.

• 23:30Speaker 04

  That was surprising that Neve Campbell was in it.

• 23:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's this thing that as the years pass, you don't realize the impact of like, whoa, she's gonna be in a movie like that?

• 23:37Speaker 04

  Well.

• 23:38Bill Simmons?

  The, I forget her Salinger character. What was her name?

• 23:41Speaker 04

  I can't remember.

• 23:42Bill Simmons?

  Party of Five, I can't remember either, but the Salinger kids.

• 23:44Speaker 04

  It was important for her to do the movie because of that fact.

• 23:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 23:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  Interesting in this film is that you're getting to know Denise Richards in this type of erotic thriller. This is like the first time you're seeing her.

• 23:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 23:59Speaker 04

  And it's Neve Campbell's change of pace here. And even the, even the character, cause like you see that all the time, right? Like you see somebody that's known for being on, Jennifer Love Hewitt has a version of that.

• 24:11Bill Simmons?

  Sarah Michelle Gellar was a really good one for Cruel Intentions.

• 24:13Speaker 04

  For Cruel Intentions.

• 24:14Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God. Where did this come from?

• 24:15Speaker 04

  You see that and then you, and then you see someone, okay, I don't want to be typecast. I want to break out of the beloved, lovable world.

• 24:22Speaker 05

  Julia Salinger.

• 24:23Speaker 04

  At like. Anne Hathaway does that.

• 24:26Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  Like, she does that.

• 24:27Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 24:28Speaker 04

  She does it with Brokeback Mountain.

• 24:29Bill Simmons?

  She went in early, though, because she was in Havoc.

• 24:31Speaker 04

  Havoc?

• 24:31Bill Simmons?

  She was like, don't pigeonhole me. I'm not Princess Diaries person.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  I'm not Princess Diaries. I gotta get out of this as soon as possible. If my career tails off, at least even for a year, two years, because I shocked my old fanbase, it's worth it.

• 24:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 24:44Speaker 04

  So Neve Campbell's in that space. And then Denise Richards, this is how we know her.

• 24:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 24:49Speaker 04

  So she's going to have to find in her career at some point a way out of being the Siren sexpot, which she couldn't really do it. And Neve Campbell was trying to find her way out of being, you know, beloved by America.

• 24:59Speaker 05

  But it's then like in a kind of meta way, really effective inside of the movie because Susie is the character we have to be most surprised by.

• 25:08Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 25:08Speaker 05

  Right?

• 25:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 25:09Speaker 05

  So that like actually benefits the movie. And I think it's interesting because a lot, like younger women and female performers are probably the characters we would point to the most who feel compelled to do that. That's still happening. It's happening with everybody all the time. Like, I mean, Daniel Radcliffe was like, the thing I need to do after Harry Potter or at the end of Harry Potter is psar in equis and show my dick on stage, right? So this is always going to be a thing to show like you can, especially if you're associated deeply with an iconic character that has like a grip on younger people and something about like a coming of age tale in particular. There's a compulsion to try to break out of that.

• 25:48Bill Simmons?

  It's really hard with the TV. The 80s and 90s people very rarely were able to escape like how big the show was.

• 25:55Speaker 04

  I'll tell you why is because.

• 25:57Bill Simmons?

  Even our guy Noah Wiley. I mean, how long did it take him to just not be ER's Noah Wiley anymore?

• 26:01Speaker 05

  Thriving on the pit.

• 26:02Bill Simmons?

  20 years.

• 26:03Speaker 05

  Thriving on the pit, Dr. Robbie.

• 26:03Bill Simmons?

  25 years.

• 26:04Speaker 04

  There's still a movie.

• 26:05Speaker 05

  Emmy winner.

• 26:05Speaker 04

  There's still a movie. There was a TBS made for cable movie where he plays Steve Jobs, like Pirates of the Silicon Valley.

• 26:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  I remember watching that. It was like late 90s. You can't find the movie anywhere now. Yeah, it's called Pirates of Silicon Valley. He is Steve Jobs and.

• 26:24Speaker 04

  Uh, is Anthony Michael Hall?

• 26:26Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 26:27Speaker 04

  Bill Gates?

• 26:27Bill Simmons?

  Jesus.

• 26:28Speaker 04

  In the movie, like, I think Anthony Michael Hall is Bill Gates in the movie. It's called, it's a, it's a good little movie. He, that's when I first realized Steve Jobs was the way he was. So it took him a while to get out, but I remember seeing, oh, he can do other stuff right there. But those 80 stars, one thing about them and why they couldn't break out is because that was almost the last generation, maybe you get to Fresh Prince, of those primetime shows being actually about the kids.

• 26:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  So the kids were the leads. Like, so in Different Strokes, it was about the Arnold and his, like, the kids. Punky Brewster was about Punky Brewster. The whole show Blossom was about Blossom. The whole show was about those kids. And then they kind of stopped doing that. Like, they, those shows didn't exist anymore, so people were like.

• 27:13Bill Simmons?

  Boy Meets World was the last kind of era.

• 27:16Speaker 05

  Is it some of this also just like volume, right? You know, TV shows now in the streaming era, it's six, eight, 10 episodes. Euphoria. Euphoria is on every three to five years. And those people are incredibly famous and are doing, whereas like.

• 27:33Bill Simmons?

  Like, Dev Campbell could have been in Armageddon if Party Five was doing 22 episodes.

• 27:36Speaker 05

  Network TV, right, exactly. It's 22, 24 weeks of your year that those people are in your lives as that character. Like, Zendaya, there are a lot of people who are gonna say Rue is my first association with Zendaya, and then there are gonna be way more people who would be baffled by that, right?

• 27:52Speaker 04

  Right. But Rue, but Rue for Zendaya is.

• 27:56Speaker 05

  He spends six hours with Rue every five years.

• 27:57Speaker 04

  But that's, that's Zendaya's version of being taken seriously as an actress, of giving you something a little darker. Because before then, Zendaya is on Disney, and then Zendaya does Dancing with the Stars when she's like 17, trying to get herself out there.

• 28:12Bill Simmons?

  I totally forgot that.

• 28:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, she was like 17, she's on Dancing with the Stars, trying to get herself out there.

• 28:17Bill Simmons?

  I was not good for that recently.

• 28:18Speaker 04

  Then she does music for a while, and she's still existing in youth culture. Like, she's young, pretty Disney Zendaya, then Spider-Man, then she goes, let me show that I'm a grown up, and she does the Rue character.

• 28:30Bill Simmons?

  See, this could have happened to Jason Priestley and Luke Perry. They just weren't stuck doing thirty-two episodes a year on nine oh two oh. God only knows how many movies.

• 28:38Speaker 05

  Stuck doing. How could you say that about your most sacred text?

• 28:42Speaker 04

  Luke Perry tried.

• 28:43Bill Simmons?

  Luke Perry did try. But Euphoria, all of those people became stars that were good on the show because they didn't have to do the show that much.

• 28:50Speaker 04

  All, like, Luke Perry ended up finding himself creatively later on in life because that's like the actually A number one, like, like, he's good. These guys had their chances. Remember the terrible Calendar Girls movie with Jason Priestley in it? They didn't have it.

• 29:03Bill Simmons?

  No, you're probably right.

• 29:04Speaker 04

  They, they, they, they had their chances, like Jason Priestley.

• 29:07Bill Simmons?

  They're like great college quarterbacks that just couldn't, couldn't play in the NFL.

• 29:10Speaker 04

  Geno Toretta, yeah.

• 29:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, like Zendaya is one of our most talented and capable performers. So that's not actually a comp for any of the things you're talking about.

• 29:17Bill Simmons?

  Lindsay Lohan was another one that started, she came out of that Disney universe and actually.

• 29:20Speaker 05

  Parent Trap, one of the best movies ever made.

• 29:22Bill Simmons?

  She actually was able to parlay. But a lot of those, like, all the shows my kids watched, none of those kids really ended up, kids that I thought were good actors when I watched the show, like Jesse and the, all the shows you wouldn't know.

• 29:36Speaker 04

  Well, some of them, I mean, Miley, I guess, Lizzie McGuire, some of these people got good stuff going on.

• 29:41Bill Simmons?

  Miley can be as an artist, yeah, but I'm talking like people that started out on those things and then became actual actors. Denise Richards, Seinfeld, memorable Seinfeld appearance is the daughter of an NBA exec, or an NBC executive, and she's bending over and George looks at her cleavage and it almost sabotages the pilot. She was in Melrose Place for a couple of episodes as Lonnie Anderson's daughter trying to do a scheme on Dr. Michael Mancini.

• 30:08Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:08Bill Simmons?

  That happened. She was in Starship Troopers.

• 30:11Speaker 05

  That's right, of course.

• 30:12Bill Simmons?

  A beloved movie.

• 30:13Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  Love that shit.

• 30:15Bill Simmons?

  She was in Drop Dead Gorgeous and then Wild Things was when this really kicked off. And then everything culminated, she's in The World Is Not Enough, in a Bond movie, and she plays like a nuclear physicist or something. And somehow isn't, isn't named after the category we have because we named it after Elizabeth Shue.

• 30:30Speaker 05

  Shocking.

• 30:30Speaker 04

  Doctor Chris Jones.

• 30:31Speaker 05

  That would've been another good one, yes.

• 30:35Bill Simmons?

  Denise Richards. And then she got Charlie Sheen. She met Charlie Sheen when her career was never the same.

• 30:41Speaker 05

  Do you watch Million Dollar Listing LA? Or did you watch it when it was on?

• 30:45Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 30:45Speaker 05

  Oh, great real estate show. I'm surprised you didn't watch it. Denise Richards was on it last season. As a friend of one of the brokers, Josh Flack, just appeared in an episode.

• 30:54Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 30:55Speaker 05

  Yes. It was, I was like, oh my God, it's Denise Richards.

• 30:58Bill Simmons?

  I saw her, the Charlie Sheen documentary, which I did not like, but she was in that. But yeah, she's, this was it. This was a really hot, she flew very close to the sun in one movie. And that's kind of where it ended.

• 31:11Speaker 05

  I was gonna save this for Apex Mountain, but I just, let's, let's just, let's do it now. I can ask you guys now.

• 31:17Speaker 05

  Emerging from a swimming pool, in a bathing suit, sopping wet. Is it this or Phoebe Cates?

• 31:25Bill Simmons?

  No, it's, it's probably this.

• 31:27Speaker 04

  It's probably this. I'll tell you what, this is-

• 31:29Speaker 05

  I would say it's Phoebe Cates. Interesting. Okay.

• 31:30Bill Simmons?

  Phoebe Cates from A Cultural Impact, but this is like-

• 31:34Speaker 04

  I mean, well-

• 31:35Speaker 05

  This is one A and one B.

• 31:36Speaker 04

  For that scene, for that type of scene, it's emerging from the swimming pool is probably, that might be a tie. I thought you meant whether or not this was the apex mountain of Phoebe Cates or the apex mountain of Denise Richards.

• 31:48Speaker 05

  No, specifically for emerging from a pool.

• 31:51Speaker 04

  I gotta, I gotta probably go Phoebe Cates.

• 31:53Bill Simmons?

  We need more people emerging from pools.

• 31:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's probably Phoebe Cates.

• 31:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, great.

• 31:58Speaker 04

  Don't, don't hate on Jessica Biel in Summer Catch.

• 32:01Speaker 05

  Oh yeah, I mean, talk about a great movie. Talk about a seminal movie of my youth.

• 32:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And then we have Matt Dillon, who was a big up and comer in the eighties for a while and led a bunch of movies and was right at the forefront of that Timothy Hutton, Cruise, all those guys. He was probably the most successful guy for a while. Outsiders had a big role.

• 32:21Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 32:22Bill Simmons?

  Just like from a, felt like he was gonna be the most famous. Died down a little, came back in the mid nineties, To Die For, Beautiful Girls, In-N-Out. Ninety-eight, Wild Things, and There's Something About Mary.

• 32:33Speaker 05

  In the same year, it's just astonishing.

• 32:35Bill Simmons?

  Great job by him.

• 32:36Speaker 04

  One of the leading tweeners.

• 32:39Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 04

  The tweeners, like, eh, it, what happened to a lot of these guys, and Kevin Bacon is in that crew, too, is the ceiling got set so fucking high.

• 32:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 04

  By Hanks and Cruz and Brad Pitt. And then the guys right under that ceiling, if you're talking about like Bruce, it was just an enormously high ceiling that there was a group of tweeners that you could really rely on to give you good performances and good movies and stuff like that.

• 33:08Bill Simmons?

  Rob Lowe's in there, I think, too.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  Rob, Rob Lowe, to a degree.

• 33:10Bill Simmons?

  Judd Nelson for two years.

• 33:12Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  Judd fucked it up.

• 33:13Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 33:13Bill Simmons?

  Judd fucked it up.

• 33:14Speaker 04

  But like, a lot of, for a while, Emilio Estevez was in there for a while.

• 33:18Bill Simmons?

  He's still there for me.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  But like.

• 33:20Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 33:20Speaker 04

  But to me, all of those guys in there, like, who was the best of those guys that would lead those types of movies, leading movies, but not like A-plus list movie stars? He was way up there.

• 33:30Speaker 05

  This is like the perfect use of him, and really, this is the perfect year for him, because he gets to be so.

• 33:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 05

  Funny, and There's Something About Mary, but in this movie, it's like, he is handsome enough and enough of a leading man to be convincing, not only in the, like, you know, you think of the opening stretch of the film where you kind of, the camera's initially, like, his eyes, and then we move to the back of his head, and every one of the students is looking at him, and they all want to fuck him, and you're like, oh, he can have this effect on people. But he's also a little off enough, like, just a little creepy enough that you buy every subsequent situation and reveal across the film.

• 34:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Speaker 05

  Then you believe it when you get the line from Ray, like, in the Jimmy scene, you know, he didn't have to work his way through college on a boat, like, he was there on an athletic scholarship at Miami, you believe that. So you kind of think that he's enough of a creep to be fucking his students and become embroiled in this plot?

• 34:29Bill Simmons?

  But he's also kind of funny in a, in like, a very under-the-radar way.

• 34:32Speaker 05

  But he has the charm to, yeah.

• 34:33Bill Simmons?

  It's a charming, kind of funny.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  You understand how everyone in Blue Bay falls for him.

• 34:36Bill Simmons?

  He was a great villain in My Bodyguard.

• 34:38Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:39Bill Simmons?

  Which is an awesome movie that is probably too old now to do. You know, you know what that movie is?

• 34:44Speaker 06

  No.

• 34:45Bill Simmons?

  Um, he's the villain. He's like a high school bully in this kid. Who's getting bullied by him hires this kind of big scary kid to be his bodyguard. And it's just really good. And Matt Dillon was like a great villain in it.

• 34:58Speaker 04

  I would think about guys like Matt Dillon, like, cause you know, for a long time, I, I felt like Nicolas Cage was kind of in that purgatory. And then Leaving Las Vegas comes out and you go, well, no, like, like he.

• 35:10Bill Simmons?

  There's more coming out of there?

• 35:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, like there, there's, there's more to him, but like, this role is perfect for him because the, the character can't really be anything. He's never what we think that he is. He's actually the subversion.

• 35:23Speaker 05

  Yes, exactly.

• 35:24Speaker 04

  Of like, the erotic thriller guy from earlier in, in the decade. Earlier in the decade, the erotic thriller was take beautiful, crazy beautiful lady, put them with the most straight laced male, and then watch this lady's sexuality sort of corrupt this guy.

• 35:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's like playing on our expectations that he could actually be the leading man, but isn't.

• 35:44Speaker 04

  But he isn't. At the end, he's basically the, the, the pansy, not the, what's the word I'm looking for, patsy?

• 35:50Speaker 05

  Patsy.

• 35:51Speaker 04

  Patsy, patsy. I couldn't find it. The patsy of the entire film. He's just, he's just handsome enough to have everybody want to fuck him. But he's also dumb enough.

• 36:00Speaker 05

  To be duped.

• 36:01Speaker 04

  To be.

• 36:01Speaker 05

  To be played.

• 36:02Speaker 04

  Outmaneuvered by a high school student.

• 36:04Bill Simmons?

  Kind of looks like Craig a little bit.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, I can see that.

• 36:07Speaker 05

  I see it.

• 36:08Bill Simmons?

  Kind of bit. It's great.

• 36:09Speaker 06

  Kind of don't know where I'm going either. I could, I could turn bad. You don't know.

• 36:12Speaker 05

  How do you feel about sailing?

• 36:14Speaker 06

  I like sailing.

• 36:15Speaker 05

  Yeah. You gotta work a winch.

• 36:16Speaker 04

  Guess what? Nah, I'm waiting for it.

• 36:19Speaker 06

  For my turn?

• 36:20Speaker 04

  I'm waiting for your dark side to be revealed. I know it's in there.

• 36:23Bill Simmons?

  That's it. Sailing class.

• 36:24Speaker 04

  I know it's there. Hey Craig.

• 36:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 36:27Speaker 04

  I don't buy it.

• 36:30Speaker 04

  Your whole act, your whole thing. Don't get, don't get nervous. Don't get nervous.

• 36:35Bill Simmons?

  I'm watching you Craig.

• 36:36Speaker 04

  I want to let you know right now. I've been on to you since the start. I don't buy it, Craig.

• 36:42Speaker 05

  I, I will say.

• 36:43Speaker 06

  Ever since American Gangster, when I was like, he should have shot him in the heads.

• 36:46Speaker 05

  That.

• 36:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:46Speaker 06

  Oh no, shot him in the heart.

• 36:48Speaker 04

  Shot him in the heart so you could see him die. I know what's happening.

• 36:51Speaker 05

  The recent reveal on the fantasy show that you've been an extra on a bunch of movies, but can't remember what they were?

• 36:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 06

  I didn't remember which Fast movie it was.

• 37:00Speaker 05

  Serial killer stuff.

• 37:01Speaker 04

  No.

• 37:02Bill Simmons?

  Can I give you a Matt Dillon?

• 37:03Speaker 06

  You understand.

• 37:05Bill Simmons?

  Matt Dillon, I think the issue with his career, and it was a great career.

• 37:09Speaker 04

  Was.

• 37:09Bill Simmons?

  He was alive.

• 37:10Speaker 05

  I mean, he was nominated for an Oscar.

• 37:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:13Bill Simmons?

  Talk about his prime. Crash.

• 37:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:15Bill Simmons?

  Became like his, that's part of the problem.

• 37:17Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 37:18Bill Simmons?

  But this, this.

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:21Bill Simmons?

  That was our, that was one of our only rewatchables roasts that we've done.

• 37:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:25Bill Simmons?

  Here's the thing. He was the original choice for Butch and Pulp Fiction. And, and couldn't do it or turned it down and ended up going to Bruce Willis.

• 37:33Speaker 05

  Man.

• 37:33Bill Simmons?

  And I think he, his career needs that. He might've had another thing. It might've been, I can't do it, or I'm already committed to this other piece. I think that really would've been good for him. Uh, and then Kevin Bacon's the last one we gotta talk about.

• 37:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:46Bill Simmons?

  You know, at this point, I think six degrees of Kevin Bacon existed.

• 37:50Speaker 05

  In 98?

• 37:51Bill Simmons?

  Cause he'd been in so many movies. I'm gonna say late 90s, it kinda started.

• 37:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:54Bill Simmons?

  Everybody liked him. He'd been in a bunch. He kept having resurgences. And he's another tweener, like what Van was just talking about. He was like, he had his moment with Footloose. He was always at his best as like the second, third Scottie Pippen type guy.

• 38:07Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:07Bill Simmons?

  And this was like perfect for him. Um, and then we're gonna talk about him more later. And then the random one was.

• 38:13Speaker 05

  Was River Wild? 94?

• 38:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The random one was Bill Murray being in this.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  It's astonishing.

• 38:18Bill Simmons?

  Which was just stupefying.

• 38:19Speaker 05

  It's astonishing.

• 38:20Bill Simmons?

  Did you know he was in this, Craig?

• 38:21Speaker 06

  No, no idea.

• 38:22Bill Simmons?

  What was your reaction?

• 38:23Speaker 06

  He was delightful. I thought he was so good in it. I really enjoyed him.

• 38:26Bill Simmons?

  Really strange.

• 38:27Speaker 06

  He changed the tone of the movie in a nice way.

• 38:29Speaker 05

  It radically changes the tone of the movie. It's one of the more emblematic things of like, I don't quite know how the movie gets away with something that jarring as a shift inside of it, but it is delightful.

• 38:40Speaker 06

  But I, yeah, I really, I loved him.

• 38:42Speaker 04

  It, it's difficult if you weren't around then. Like, Bill Murray is now, of course, but even more so then. Was just a massive, massive, huge, gigantic star and a comedy staple. This is post Groundhog Day. This is the motherfucker from Ghostbusters.

• 39:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he already had his second run in the early 90s.

• 39:05Speaker 04

  So, yeah, he's, he's, he's back. To, to see him in the movie, it almost, in some way, gave the movie an odd credibility. Like this is.

• 39:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was trying to think, who would be the person right now in this movie that would have the Bill Murray bump?

• 39:19Speaker 04

  That would like bump the movie in that way.

• 39:21Bill Simmons?

  If Will Ferrell was the detective, you'd be like, whoa, Will Ferrell, what's he doing in this?

• 39:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's good.

• 39:26Bill Simmons?

  But it's like someone, maybe even like a little more famous than Will Ferrell.

• 39:30Speaker 06

  I wish more stars.

• 39:30Speaker 04

  Maybe like 2011 or 2012.

• 39:32Speaker 06

  I wish more stars did this because apparently he was just buddies with the director of this movie. And he was like, can I be in it? And they're like, sure. And 10 minutes of a star just being like, you know, I don't need to get 10 million dollars to do this. I'll just go in and have fun. It makes the movie so much better.

• 39:45Bill Simmons?

  But I've always said, this is what I wish people like Cruz and a couple others had just been like, yeah, I'll show up for a week and film five scenes and get out.

• 39:51Speaker 05

  He's like 20 minutes in the movie, right?

• 39:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 39:53Speaker 05

  And it actually like, it's funny to look back and see that Kevin Bacon has Lee Billing on the movie, which like.

• 39:59Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 40:00Speaker 05

  I guess in terms of his celebrity and his stature makes sense, but in terms of the role of Ray Duquette in the film really doesn't make sense at all, actually. But Bill Murray, you do kind of forget he's in the film until you go watch it. There's so many delightful little things that kind of prep you subtly, even though the tone is really out of sync with the rest of the movie for like what we're watching. You know, the fact that he's wearing the fake neck brace. He's like, oh, I don't have to wear it all the time. The insurance guy was here earlier. And then you go back to his office and you pan the wall and it's like all of his clients thanking him in their fake crutches and their fake braces. Cause he's like, I'm running cons. So even though the fifth stinger, you know, the reveal that he was in on it with Susie the whole time, was apparently like added late.

• 40:42Speaker 05

  Which is one of the more shocking nuggets about this movie. You're actually maybe most prepared the entire time for him to be revealed as a part of the plot. Cause he's like a scumbag. He's a con man.

• 40:54Speaker 04

  And also it's Bill Murray.

• 40:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:56Speaker 04

  So the whole time that you looking at the movie, at least for me, you're like, I'm waiting for the reason.

• 41:02Speaker 05

  Why is Bill Murray here?

• 41:02Speaker 04

  Why he's in the movie.

• 41:03Speaker 05

  But that's what's weird about it is like that wasn't, apparently wasn't why he was there. He wasn't brought in to like be the big reveal at the end, handing over a briefcase to Cap. So like, you're here, maybe we should.

• 41:14Speaker 04

  He just wanted to do it.

• 41:15Bill Simmons?

  It's like asking somebody to join the rewatchables. Be like, yeah, sure. I'm free Friday.

• 41:19Speaker 05

  I'm available.

• 41:19Bill Simmons?

  Bill Murray's like, he literally, the director was John McNaughton, who they did Mad Dog in Glory with. Robert De Niro, which is a weird movie. Um, but that guy did Henry Porter, The Vessera Killer, which was one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in the theater, especially because.

• 41:33Speaker 05

  I have not seen that film. We will not be seeing that film.

• 41:36Speaker 04

  Legitimately.

• 41:37Speaker 05

  Not for me.

• 41:38Speaker 04

  Legitimately unsettling.

• 41:40Bill Simmons?

  I thought.

• 41:41Speaker 05

  It's a pass for me.

• 41:42Speaker 04

  Like a legitimately, I went, I went through this thing when I was a kid, when I wanted to see every movie that was rated NC 17. If like, when I first found out about NC 17, if I saw NC 17, I just grabbed it. Legitimately unsettling movie. That's why, uh, Michael Rooker, for a long time, couldn't deal with it.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  Interesting.

• 41:59Speaker 04

  Yeah. Cause like he, he, he did the legitimately unsettling movie.

• 42:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I've said this before, but I saw in Boston, the Kenmore Theater by myself. And there was like six, seven other people by themselves. And like halfway through the theater, you start kind of.

• 42:13Speaker 05

  Oh no.

• 42:14Bill Simmons?

  Doing this like, am I, is this how I'm gonna die? Is somebody here like getting ideas? They're like, I'm gonna watch half of this movie, then kill somebody. So he's in his having fun stage here because he's in Kingpin, Wild Things, Rushmore, Bill Murray's just, just doing, he's like, yeah, sure. I'll do this. Um, we'll take a break and then there's a couple of other things we had talked about before we get to categories. This episode is brought to you by Trivia. Sweeteners are like movies. The best ones don't leave an aftertaste. That's why Trivia Allos Plus Stevia Sweetener and Monk Fruit Sweetener is a smooth, balanced tri blend that delivers sugar like sweetness with zero calories per serving and no aftertaste. If you're looking for a better way to enjoy sweetness with zero calories per serving,

• 42:59Bill Simmons?

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• 43:42Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Bacon said in an interview that there were so many lies and twists in this script. They had to actually like figure out a way to keep track of what the motivations were as they're filming it, based on what they should know and shouldn't know.

• 43:56Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 43:56Bill Simmons?

  This movie has so many twists. I think it's the only time I've ever seen a closing credits where then they kind of.

• 44:04Speaker 05

  Explain the movie?

• 44:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the version of the movie you're watching, they want you to experience it a certain way. And then it's over and you're like, oh, I know. Now I know it was Neve Campbell.

• 44:13Speaker 05

  Right.

• 44:13Bill Simmons?

  And then they're like, no, actually, we're going to go backwards. Here's some other stuff that now we're going to. And I've never seen that work. I can't believe it worked because I love it. I love the closing credits.

• 44:23Speaker 05

  I will, I would say that like a key performer in a film coming out in interviews and saying, basically every time we went to act out a scene, we had to be reminded of what our characters motivations were and what was happening when, because the plot was so deranged and convoluted and full of twists and turns that we couldn't remember who we were supposed to be, why we were supposed to be doing what we were doing. Is maybe beyond borderline disqualifying for the plot and script of the film. Just part of the lore here. It just makes us love it more. It's like the absurdity and the fact that like simultaneously nothing about the story holds up to scrutiny, but also the fact that it doesn't hold up to scrutiny is part of its charm. Like they're just.

• 45:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, nitpicks are tough because there's like 100 nitpicks in this.

• 45:06Speaker 04

  I only have one nitpick. Um, one real, we'll get to it. Uh, it's more about us, a question for us.

• 45:11Speaker 05

  Um, exciting.

• 45:12Speaker 04

  There's only one other movie that when I was thinking about this, that I thought about that towards the end of the film, the twist, then you go back through the film with the character and it changes. Angel Heart.

• 45:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Louis Cyphre.

• 45:24Speaker 04

  Louis Cyphre, and then you realize that he's actually killed all of these people. And then he's on the elevator to hell and he's realizing it and.

• 45:34Bill Simmons?

  You're spoiling New Orleans month.

• 45:36Speaker 04

  Oh, my bad. Yeah, New Orleans month. Like, and then he, but, like, for, in a real way, the, the, the movie is effective in doing the same thing for every character. Making a hero, then making a villain, then making a hero, and then making a villain. By the end of this film, the biggest victim in the entire movie is Kelly.

• 46:00Bill Simmons?

  Kelly Van Rhyn.

• 46:01Speaker 04

  Kelly Van Rhyn, because she is doing everything that she's doing just because she's in love with the older guidance counselor at her school who has manipulated her. I can't tell in the movie whether or not Neve Campbell's character is the hero or the villain. I, because she's the, she gets treated like a piece of shit because she's from the, the wrong side of the tracks. So she's taking it out on all of these upper crust people, but at the same time.

• 46:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 04

  She really fucks over a lot of people and kills them all and then escapes with them.

• 46:30Bill Simmons?

  McDon'ton liked that, though. He was like, who wins in the end, the girl in the trailer park?

• 46:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, I certainly think the movie's point of view is that she's the hero. And that like she managed to take out all of these people who in some way contributed to like her plight.

• 46:42Speaker 04

  Right.

• 46:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he said, some of us had parents who insisted their children have an education, go to college, escape all that.

• 46:51Bill Simmons?

  Other ones, parents didn't care if their kid dropped out of school. That's where my heart always is.

• 46:57Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 46:58Bill Simmons?

  They were at the trailer parks.

• 47:01Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Bacon said the script was the trashiest thing you ever read. Couldn't wait to do it. Craig, Century Club, this movie's 108 minutes. It's a, it's a plus, I guess it's a minus eight for you. What do you think?

• 47:13Speaker 06

  Wonderful score. Um, no, no, no, it's perfect. 108.

• 47:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:18Bill Simmons?

  You wouldn't cut eight?

• 47:20Speaker 06

  No, I, I, I have problems with, I think there should have been an extra 60 seconds in this movie that I was promised that was not there.

• 47:27Speaker 05

  Well, did you watch the unrated extended cut?

• 47:29Speaker 06

  Well, that, I thought, should we just do it now?

• 47:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 06

  The pool scene is the famous scene from this movie. I have never seen this movie, but I know that scene.

• 47:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 06

  It's not in, it's not in the movie on Netflix. Was it not in theaters, that scene?

• 47:42Bill Simmons?

  The pool scene's on Netflix, but it's, it's a shorter version.

• 47:46Speaker 06

  They don't really do anything. The scene that is the famous scene is she takes her top off in the pool, which is not in the Netflix cut.

• 47:52Speaker 04

  Oh, no, not in the original cut. No, that wasn't it. If you went to the movies.

• 47:54Speaker 06

  That was not in the original.

• 47:54Speaker 05

  That's the unrated cut.

• 47:55Speaker 04

  If you went to the movies to see it, you didn't see that.

• 47:57Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 47:57Speaker 04

  It goes from her, she gets out of the pool, he's on the phone, they fight, and then you're out.

• 48:03Speaker 06

  Cause they kiss for like a second and then it kind of transitions into the police department.

• 48:06Speaker 05

  You get the finger in the mouth. Oh, you are scared. There's like, oh, there's still like.

• 48:10Bill Simmons?

  You did get Kevin Bacon with the camera doing that.

• 48:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, you get that.

• 48:12Speaker 04

  He's in there.

• 48:13Speaker 05

  Genuinely might be my single favorite moment in the film.

• 48:15Speaker 04

  Dressed, dressed down.

• 48:16Speaker 05

  Incredible moment.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  He's dressed down. He's, he's skeezy, squeezy now.

• 48:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're prepared for anything with that.

• 48:20Speaker 05

  And then the cut to them watching him, watching it on the, the monitor at the police station.

• 48:24Speaker 06

  When did the, the famous scene then become famous?

• 48:27Speaker 05

  I think the motel threesome is that.

• 48:30Speaker 06

  A couple of years later then.

• 48:30Speaker 05

  But the motel threesome is also a very famous.

• 48:32Bill Simmons?

  And I, and I didn't know about that scene.

• 48:34Speaker 04

  The threesome is much more famous to me.

• 48:36Speaker 06

  Oh, interesting.

• 48:36Speaker 05

  That's the iconic one.

• 48:37Speaker 04

  But in the 2000s, we got into the unrated era.

• 48:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Director's cut, unrated era with a new extra 15 minutes.

• 48:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:46Speaker 04

  And so that, they would get you to go buy the DVD by doing that. So when the shit, by the time the shit probably got to the internet.

• 48:51Bill Simmons?

  Complimentary vial of hand cream. 15 extra minutes.

• 48:57Bill Simmons?

  Watch party, best setting for a watcher re-watch.

• 49:00Speaker 05

  Oh, God.

• 49:00Bill Simmons?

  Solo is an option here.

• 49:01Speaker 04

  Nah, you gotta be by yourself.

• 49:02Bill Simmons?

  Five o'clocker.

• 49:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 49:04Bill Simmons?

  Or, uh, or you could do like what Mallory had. Our parents are now asleep.

• 49:11Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 49:11Bill Simmons?

  Let's go grab wild things. So like for that 12 to 14 range.

• 49:14Speaker 05

  When you're young in those formative years, you know, and the next thing that happens at those parties is spin the bottle or seven minutes in heaven or something like that, it's just.

• 49:21Bill Simmons?

  Wild things.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  Boy, rest in peace, Dad. This was one of Dad's all-time great goddamns. My dad had great goddamns. We in the house, he walking out, he got a saddle. Boy, I wish my sister was here. He got a saddle over his. And he, we, me and Ryan, we looking at the movie. My dad go, what they doing? Didn't you see Denise Richards stays on top of me go, god damn.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  I, y'all be careful now. Watching too much of this. And then he went outside and held the horse up a rope.

• 49:53Speaker 05

  Incredible.

• 49:53Speaker 04

  Great goddamn.

• 49:54Bill Simmons?

  That'd be a good category, the goddamn category.

• 49:56Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Some good goddamns from him when he saw stuff and heard stuff.

• 49:59Bill Simmons?

  Twenty million dollar budget made sixty seven point two million, followed by three direct to DVD sequels, which is another sign we're in the right hands.

• 50:06Speaker 05

  Crazy.

• 50:07Bill Simmons?

  Wild Things Two.

• 50:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:08Bill Simmons?

  Wild Things Diamonds in the Rough.

• 50:10Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 50:11Bill Simmons?

  And Wild Things Foursome.

• 50:13Speaker 05

  One of the best titles ever.

• 50:14Bill Simmons?

  I don't have no idea what happens in those movies or who's in them, but I'm sure they're on Tubi.

• 50:19Speaker 05

  I think the titles tell you everything you need to know, honestly.

• 50:21Speaker 04

  One of them I watched because it had one of the great beauties. You know, you guys remember Leila Arciera? Remember her?

• 50:27Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 50:28Speaker 04

  Aw, man. She was in the Q-Tip video, I think it was Vibrant Thing. And then she was on a show, a show called Son of the Beach.

• 50:35Bill Simmons?

  Remember Son of the Beach? That was produced by Howard Stern.

• 50:37Speaker 04

  Okay, she was on that show and then she did the Wild Things movie. And we thought that maybe she was gonna have her Denise Richards moment. She's always beautiful. So I went to see it, but she, she didn't.

• 50:47Bill Simmons?

  You know, it's funny that Denise Richards moment, there's probably a lot, dozens of actresses who were probably waiting for a moment like that and it just never happened.

• 50:56Speaker 04

  Never happened, yeah.

• 50:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. It really like, it's time, movie, scene.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:02Bill Simmons?

  It has to hit the zeitgeist in some way and it happened. It hit it for Roger Ebert.

• 51:07Speaker 05

  Sure did. This is one, this is an all time Roger review.

• 51:10Bill Simmons?

  Three stars for Raj. Are you surprised?

• 51:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, incredible.

• 51:14Bill Simmons?

  Lurid trash with a plot so twisted, they're still explaining it during the closing titles. It's like a three way collision between a soft core sex film, a soap opera and, and a B grade noir. I loved it.

• 51:27Speaker 06

  We're still back.

• 51:28Speaker 05

  Something up perfectly, honestly. Captured it.

• 51:30Bill Simmons?

  Actually, you said I liked it, not I loved it.

• 51:32Speaker 06

  Yo, look. He's right.

• 51:34Speaker 04

  There used to be a place in our movie making culture.

• 51:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:39Speaker 04

  For well-made trash.

• 51:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 51:42Speaker 04

  A movie that was just entertaining.

• 51:44Bill Simmons?

  But they're trying to make this movie all the time. They just fuck it up all the time. You could go anywhere, any, pick a streamer.

• 51:52Speaker 05

  No.

• 51:52Bill Simmons?

  There's 50 versions of this movie and they fucked them up. They had the wrong star. The plot's bad.

• 51:57Speaker 04

  They're taking it too seriously.

• 51:59Bill Simmons?

  What's good about this is they know what they're making the whole time and they're having a good time as they do.

• 52:03Speaker 05

  Well, it also gets back to what you guys were saying at the beginning, like the illicit nature of, oh, if you go see this.

• 52:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:09Speaker 05

  You'll see boobs or you'll see a dick or like a great, you know, um, actually on the Phoebe K's Fast Times front, you know, there's in Stranger Things when they work at the, the family video store. And one of the things Steve Harrington said is like, you know, who pauses Fast Times at like, you know, 58 minutes or whatever? People who like boobies, right? Like the narrative springs up around the film. You don't, to your point from earlier, you don't need to do that today.

• 52:32Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 52:32Speaker 05

  So there's not the same like word of mouth. There's not the same kind of cult following around a movie because it's not like, there's nothing illicit about it anymore. That stuff is everywhere.

• 52:41Speaker 04

  You know what? Could you make an argument that maybe The Housemaid is sort of not?

• 52:49Speaker 05

  But that's not because people are like, I need to go see The Housemaid to see Sydney Sweeney in a certain way. You can get that, you can go buy her bath water.

• 52:58Bill Simmons?

  I like your point though. Housemaid, which I thought was really egregiously bad.

• 53:03Speaker 05

  Terrible, yeah.

• 53:04Speaker 04

  I didn't see it.

• 53:04Bill Simmons?

  I watched the whole thing and I do think it was trying to do some of the Wild Things stuff. It didn't have the sense of humor that Wild Things has, I think. And it obviously didn't have anyone like Bill Murray just popping in for 20 minutes.

• 53:15Speaker 05

  Wild Things is very self-aware in a way that obviously like some people don't appreciate and some people are still cherishing decades later, like us.

• 53:23Speaker 04

  But it's also, it's, it's kind of beautiful. Like everyone looks good. It's sleazy.

• 53:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:30Speaker 04

  South Florida is a character.

• 53:31Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing. We should have talked about South Florida. It's just a great movie location. It really is. Cause you can go to the rich part.

• 53:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:39Bill Simmons?

  You can go to the grimier part.

• 53:40Speaker 05

  Well.

• 53:41Bill Simmons?

  Where they're like fucking wrestling alligators and like these dive bars that look really cool. There's swamps.

• 53:46Speaker 05

  They're trying to tap into that spirit and like, uh. Outer Banks, you know, very like pokes and kooks, right? Two sides of this community, this resort town.

• 53:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, a movie that did it really well, that's been on the rewatchables list for two years, that I know Vanna's revisited many times, Out of Time, Denzel Washington.

• 54:04Speaker 04

  Hell, yeah.

• 54:05Bill Simmons?

  Which is a fucking awesome movie, which has now been ripped off by the His and Her Show on Netflix, because it's the same premise of like, this cop, he was with, involved with the lady that just got murdered, but doesn't want to find out yet. It kind of invented that. I don't remember seeing that before.

• 54:20Speaker 04

  And Out of Time is moving fast. It's moving fast and it's very sweaty.

• 54:24Bill Simmons?

  And it's just Denzel being, all the Denzel pieces I like.

• 54:27Speaker 04

  Sweaty southern movies.

• 54:28Bill Simmons?

  He's sweaty, he's horny.

• 54:30Speaker 04

  Do you got, do you know Heaven's Prisoners with Alec Baldwin?

• 54:32Bill Simmons?

  No, that's New Orleans month.

• 54:34Speaker 04

  Sweaty, southern movie.

• 54:37Speaker 05

  I'm interested.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  Terry's in that one.

• 54:41Bill Simmons?

  I've told this story before, but Jacko and I went to see that and I spilled the popcorn right before the nude scene and he went down to pick it up and missed the nude scene. And still upset about it. And still brings it up every once in a while.

• 54:54Speaker 04

  But, um, but yeah, so like South Florida works and then all the subtext between the, the, the classes and stuff.

• 54:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:00Speaker 04

  You know, the movie gives you a lot to look at.

• 55:02Bill Simmons?

  Heaven's Prisoners, Angel's Heart.

• 55:04Speaker 04

  Angel Heart.

• 55:05Bill Simmons?

  Angel Heart, uh.

• 55:06Speaker 04

  New Orleans month.

• 55:07Bill Simmons?

  Angel's Heart was like, it sounds like a little kid movie.

• 55:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:10Bill Simmons?

  Heaven's Prisoners, Angel Heart, uh, Tightrope with Clint Eastwood.

• 55:13Speaker 04

  Okay, that's a good one.

• 55:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 04

  Um, I'd have to think of a couple of them.

• 55:16Bill Simmons?

  Might be a one for us month.

• 55:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:18Bill Simmons?

  It's when, it's when we're off Netflix and we're on like, stars.

• 55:23Bill Simmons?

  Most rewatchable scene.

• 55:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:27Bill Simmons?

  I really enjoy the boating, the boating, the one person boating class. Always aggressive when you have one person in the class. I always like when they have movies like that.

• 55:36Speaker 05

  There are technically other students who like very quickly leave their other boats, but he's mostly giving attention to Jimmy.

• 55:41Bill Simmons?

  All he cares about is, anyway, we go from that to the Jeep ride, to the Van Ryans, which has a big VR on the gates during this little stretch. We have Kelly Van Ryan acting all flirty with Matt Dillon.

• 55:53Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 55:54Bill Simmons?

  We have Kelly Van Ryan and Suzie seeing each other and being bitchy and she does that weird tongue thing. We have Sandra, the mom, coming out with the bikini on.

• 56:04Bill Simmons?

  And then we have Kid Cudi Pursued to Happiness Award winner because we had Third Eye Blind right into Why Can't We Be Friends?

• 56:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 56:09Bill Simmons?

  He's fucking cranking it.

• 56:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:11Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what happened with the soundtrack. It's like they ran out of money 40 minutes in. We're on this amazing pace of late 90s musics and it just ends.

• 56:18Speaker 06

  Such a good call. I thought the same thing. I was like, oh my God, we're cooking with 90s music.

• 56:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like Everclear's lawyer stops and then all of a sudden we ran out of money.

• 56:26Speaker 04

  Actually, I think maybe it was thematic because the early parts of his movies were in high school.

• 56:33Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:34Speaker 04

  Things are lighter and then when things turn, all you get is like the jazz score.

• 56:38Speaker 05

  Right. Yeah, because some of it's diegetic. Like they're actually listening to those songs driving in the Jeep.

• 56:43Bill Simmons?

  Mm-hmm. Can we talk about Sandra, the mom?

• 56:45Speaker 05

  I would love to.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  Teresa Rando.

• 56:46Bill Simmons?

  I don't know anyone who can handle my boat the way you can.

• 56:49Speaker 05

  Incredible stuff.

• 56:50Bill Simmons?

  Every line she says sounds like it came right out of a porn.

• 56:53Speaker 04

  Emasculates homeboy from behind.

• 56:55Speaker 05

  Frankie. That was tough.

• 56:57Speaker 06

  He seemed like he was doing a good job.

• 56:58Speaker 04

  I thought he was handling her boat perfectly.

• 57:01Speaker 05

  Some incredible physics in that scene because they're obviously nude and fucking, but she's wearing high heels and he's holding the heels.

• 57:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:08Speaker 05

  For leverage, really memorable.

• 57:10Speaker 04

  Well, that's because he's trying to live up to what Sam Lombardo, he's trying to get every bit of, he's trying to do a Sam Lombardo. He can't do it.

• 57:17Bill Simmons?

  Teresa Russell is the actress.

• 57:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:19Bill Simmons?

  She had a cup of coffee in the 80s.

• 57:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 57:21Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:21Bill Simmons?

  Black Widow, Deborah Winger.

• 57:23Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 57:24Speaker 05

  Horror. Horror?

• 57:26Speaker 04

  Horror, one of my all time faves.

• 57:27Bill Simmons?

  She basically like discount Kathleen Turner.

• 57:29Speaker 05

  Exactly what I was gonna say.

• 57:31Bill Simmons?

  If Kathleen Turner turned it down, she was there.

• 57:32Speaker 05

  They look a lot like borderline doppelganger.

• 57:35Bill Simmons?

  Not a very good actress, unfortunately.

• 57:37Speaker 04

  Not, she sucks in this movie. Like she's, she's.

• 57:40Bill Simmons?

  She sucks for all the right reasons, though.

• 57:42Speaker 04

  I know.

• 57:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:43Bill Simmons?

  It's just like perfect.

• 57:44Speaker 04

  It works, but every line is delivered terribly.

• 57:46Bill Simmons?

  Really bad.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  But like Horror was one of the films that I would watch.

• 57:49Bill Simmons?

  Ken Russell's Horror.

• 57:50Speaker 04

  Ken Russell's Horror.

• 57:51Bill Simmons?

  I wish John Musser would be like, just an amazing 4K transfer of Horror era video.

• 57:57Speaker 04

  Hey, y'all go watch Horror.

• 57:58Speaker 05

  I watched the 4K of this. The era transfer is great.

• 58:01Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 58:02Bill Simmons?

  Oh, they have a whole bunch of deleted scenes, all kinds of things. Uh, the car wash scene.

• 58:07Speaker 05

  Incredible.

• 58:07Bill Simmons?

  In my notes, I wrote down.

• 58:08Speaker 05

  Where's your hose, Mr. Simmons?

• 58:11Speaker 04

  It's smell.

• 58:12Bill Simmons?

  In my notes.

• 58:15Bill Simmons?

  Come on.

• 58:16Speaker 05

  I was gonna open the pod with that, but there wasn't an opportunity.

• 58:20Bill Simmons?

  That's gonna get cut out.

• 58:23Bill Simmons?

  No, not cut out of the pod, cut out of social media.

• 58:27Bill Simmons?

  It's really going sideways on the rigor.

• 58:29Speaker 05

  Right in front of the Jeep.

• 58:31Bill Simmons?

  In this car wash scene, I wrote that in my notes. Two words, just gratuitous, exclamation point.

• 58:38Speaker 05

  It's perfect.

• 58:38Bill Simmons?

  They're just fucking going for it in this scene.

• 58:40Speaker 05

  The I want what I want needle drop here is, I think iconic. It's unbelievable.

• 58:46Bill Simmons?

  This is, Van didn't even see the rest of the movie.

• 58:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 58:51Bill Simmons?

  Immediate wave the five year waiting period for the white girl Hall of Fame.

• 58:55Speaker 04

  No, she's like.

• 58:56Bill Simmons?

  He's like, done. I don't need to see the rest of the movie, you're in.

• 58:58Speaker 05

  Stopping Wed in the foyer.

• 58:59Bill Simmons?

  He vans like a man.

• 59:00Speaker 05

  Oh my god.

• 59:00Speaker 04

  When, there are a couple of people that when they burst onto the scene, they burst onto that motherfucker. And this is one of them, you see her, she is.

• 59:11Bill Simmons?

  It's the Jordan 63 point game.

• 59:13Speaker 04

  Perfectly beautiful, man.

• 59:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh my god, he's, he's doing this to the 86 Celtics?

• 59:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure. Like, and there was a couple of times, maybe you could argue Liv Tyler had a moment like that, maybe.

• 59:22Bill Simmons?

  It'd be funny if we blew out the white girl Hall of Fame and made it like an actual show like the ESPYS with like presenters.

• 59:28Speaker 04

  I'm into it, me, RG3, like, you know what I mean? People, we do it. People get mad, but like, we, we have it.

• 59:37Bill Simmons?

  Please welcome Vivek Fox and Emmanuel Acho.

• 59:43Bill Simmons?

  Next scene, I had to write, this is not one of the most rewatchable scenes, but it is for me.

• 59:47Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 59:48Bill Simmons?

  Kelly tells her mom what happens, what happened.

• 59:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, uh huh.

• 59:52Bill Simmons?

  It's probably the worst two minutes of acting in rewatchable's history.

• 59:58Speaker 05

  You're not compelled by the, I'm reaching to gently pet my daughter's head and calm her, but I don't know how to make an emotional connection.

• 1:00:04Bill Simmons?

  You, I feel like Teresa Russell's reading cue cards.

• 1:00:07Speaker 05

  It's incredible.

• 1:00:08Bill Simmons?

  Behind Denise Richards' head, she's so bad.

• 1:00:10Speaker 04

  Every scene that she's in in the movie.

• 1:00:12Bill Simmons?

  Something happened to you?

• 1:00:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Bill Simmons?

  What's wrong, my dear? It's just, you can't, and then it cuts to the police station and her saying the line, my daughter does not get raped in Blue Bay. That, that was her big Oscars moment.

• 1:00:25Speaker 04

  That's one of the most absurd lines in movie history.

• 1:00:27Speaker 05

  Crazy line, it's a shocking line. But it is actually weirdly like, again, it's, it's a microcosm for the movie, it's weirdly effective. It's like she's making this about her and herself. Sam Lambrando's not gonna do that to me.

• 1:00:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, when people are like, why didn't Denise Richards have a bigger career? Like, just the two minutes is probably just not a, not a great actor.

• 1:00:47Speaker 05

  Sandra also-

• 1:00:47Bill Simmons?

  Teresa Russell, neither.

• 1:00:48Speaker 05

  The moment when she's like, uh, they're talking about the dad, right? Establishing some, some key, like, original wound, origin story, trauma there for Kelly.

• 1:00:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Speaker 05

  And then Sandra Van Raya is just like, he didn't have to kill himself.

• 1:01:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, he didn't have to do it.

• 1:01:01Speaker 05

  Just another shocking and crazy line in this movie.

• 1:01:04Speaker 04

  This is one of my probably unanswerable questions. We'll get to it later.

• 1:01:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, I have it as well.

• 1:01:07Bill Simmons?

  Would you have given her the Jed Nelson Award for somebody who's just in a completely different movie?

• 1:01:12Speaker 05

  Sandra?

• 1:01:13Bill Simmons?

  Or do you feel like she's in this movie?

• 1:01:15Speaker 05

  I think she's-

• 1:01:15Bill Simmons?

  There's another movie going on where she's like banging the pool boy and-

• 1:01:19Speaker 05

  But that is this movie. That's, that's, that's literally this movie. This movie is all the movies. That's what makes it memorable.

• 1:01:24Bill Simmons?

  Susie tells the police what happened. So good to have Campbell. The second day courtroom scene with Bill Murray.

• 1:01:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, the trial is just unbelievable.

• 1:01:32Bill Simmons?

  The trials, great stuff.

• 1:01:33Speaker 05

  The tabloid frenzy news reporters outside, kind of giving you a sense of the town and how they're all interested in the drama and the voyeuristic gawking in Blue Bay.

• 1:01:42Bill Simmons?

  The Blue Bay tribunes there.

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  Don't we just love the sleazy genius lawyer? The lawyer that's not in, not the, what's the guy's name? Tom Baxter or whatever it is? Not that guy, but the guy that's just like the sleazy genius, like my cousin Vinny or-

• 1:01:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:57Speaker 04

  Whomever, the bruiser from The Rain Man or whatever, the guy that's like just fucking awesome at being a lawyer, but he's-

• 1:02:02Bill Simmons?

  He'll, he'll break every rule.

• 1:02:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Bill Simmons?

  The threesome. Have some research on this scene.

• 1:02:09Speaker 05

  Fantastic.

• 1:02:09Bill Simmons?

  Now he's probably read all that.

• 1:02:10Speaker 05

  Did you do it all on your work computer or?

• 1:02:13Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:02:17Bill Simmons?

  Richard, Richard's and her lawyer had a detailed contract about how much nudity would be filmed, including whether they would have to use a body double. She did not.

• 1:02:27Bill Simmons?

  Film the scene after drinking a pitcher of margaritas with Neve Campbell, who was nervous.

• 1:02:32Bill Simmons?

  Cam's contract strict no nudity clause, she claims. She says she enjoyed kissing Richards. It was fun. We just sort of went and did it.

• 1:02:41Speaker 04

  Oh daddy.

• 1:02:42Bill Simmons?

  Brought a bottle of wine in my trailer, got drunk first. I'm gonna make out with a girl for the first time in my life. It's so interesting that a lot of times you learn things about yourself and have new experiences when shooting a scene. There are things you wouldn't normally do in your life.

• 1:02:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's how I feel about making the rewatchables to learn so much about myself every time we talk about a movie together, you know?

• 1:03:01Bill Simmons?

  Richards said at one point, it's four in the morning. I guess this is a different scene, but it's four in the morning. I'm half naked in a swimming pool. I'm making out with Neve Campbell. What am I doing here?

• 1:03:11Speaker 05

  Having a great time.

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. Makes smart.

• 1:03:13Speaker 05

  The motel scene is unbelievable.

• 1:03:15Bill Simmons?

  So there just weren't a lot of threesomes in movies in the eighties and nineties. I could think of only a couple.

• 1:03:24Bill Simmons?

  There was the movie called Threesome with Josh Charles.

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  The movie, yeah.

• 1:03:28Bill Simmons?

  I don't remember Three of Hearts, whether they all went at it together.

• 1:03:32Speaker 04

  They didn't do it.

• 1:03:33Bill Simmons?

  Basic Instinct hinted at it, but I don't know if it ever happened.

• 1:03:36Speaker 04

  Almost, but nah, didn't really get there.

• 1:03:39Bill Simmons?

  It just was kind of taboo. I think that's why this scene was a big deal because it just didn't happen.

• 1:03:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. It, it, there was an exploration of sex, but they would stop before it made their characters look a little too deviant, which is why movies like Showgirls and Basic Instinct were important because they kind of leaned into that. And then those movies allowed movies like this to kind of go a little bit further.

• 1:04:02Speaker 06

  There's a great moment in the threesome that definitely wasn't in the script because there's not much dialogue in the threesome. Once it actually gets started, but in the middle of it, Matt Dillon just goes, "Yeah."

• 1:04:11Speaker 04

  Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on.

• 1:04:13Speaker 06

  Definitely just Matt Dillon.

• 1:04:15Bill Simmons?

  Is that your flex category?

• 1:04:16Speaker 04

  No, this is my gray shot gordo.

• 1:04:17Speaker 05

  Oh, you brought us, you brought us.

• 1:04:20Speaker 04

  This is my gray shot gordo.

• 1:04:25Speaker 04

  Bro, I peeped that, I peeped that when I was in the theater. Matt Devoe, Matt Dillon as evil Superman. He's got the little curly hair and he just goes, yeah. With the evil Superman Elvis, I will always remember that. Like, I'm glad you peeped that. I'm trying to figure out where to put that. Cause you're just like me.

• 1:04:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, get it for him.

• 1:04:48Speaker 04

  He's just right there, look at him, he's into it, baby.

• 1:04:51Speaker 05

  Oh my god.

• 1:04:52Speaker 04

  He was my buddy. That's my great child. You spent like thirty dollars of ink to bring that out.

• 1:04:58Speaker 05

  That's the real, like, we need the knee to be angled exactly here so we can't see the throbbing erection. This is just a very memorable and meaningful scene.

• 1:05:04Speaker 04

  But I honestly think he was totally in the moment. Hundred percent.

• 1:05:09Speaker 05

  No question, yeah.

• 1:05:13Speaker 05

  The sexy part of that is iconic and great, changed a lot of lives. That's the, I mean, the movie is full of twists. This is like a genuinely great twist. That's where the whole movie becomes the movie that it is. He sees, walks in, he sees the footprints, you flash to Kelly, you're like, what's about to happen? Then you realize they're in cahoots. Then Suzie emerges and you realize they're all in cahoots. And so it's just an actual, like, thrilling plot moment coupled with the sex.

• 1:05:41Speaker 04

  That is.

• 1:05:41Speaker 05

  The champagne bottle under the towel, prepping you later for like the harpoon gun, you know, all of it. It's like, it's great.

• 1:05:49Speaker 04

  What she's talking about is rarer than you think it is. Like a genuine, oh my god, into a sexy.

• 1:05:56Speaker 05

  That's pivotal in the movie.

• 1:05:57Speaker 04

  That's pivotal in the movie that has a real thematic purpose. Now, if you take a movie like Basic Instinct, the sex scene is like used to illustrate the tone of the movie, like the desperation of the movie, him going over the deep end, all of that stuff like that. But I would connect this more to her showing her vagina in that film, which is actually an important thing to Bill Lacksy, actually an important thing. I don't know if that's like a Louisiana pronunciation. That's actually an important thing for that character to do. Demonstrating her power, demonstrating her power of everyone. But this is not. I just a sort of like, let's throw it into the film to get oohs and ahs like.

• 1:06:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  This is an important scene in the film.

• 1:06:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is like, you know, we have our era, Thrones especially with like sex position, but this is not. It is that in some way in that like you can't understand the movie without it, but this isn't like Littlefinger just talking about other characters and then saying to to Roz like. Play with her ass, you know?

• 1:06:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:57Speaker 05

  This is actually.

• 1:06:59Bill Simmons?

  Just watch that in the sauna.

• 1:07:00Speaker 05

  Again, also left an impression. Yeah, I bet you did. I bet you did.

• 1:07:04Bill Simmons?

  Just like, well, the sun is getting hot.

• 1:07:05Speaker 05

  Steamy masterpiece indeed.

• 1:07:07Bill Simmons?

  Jesus.

• 1:07:08Speaker 05

  This is great. That's the most rewatchable scene in the movie.

• 1:07:11Bill Simmons?

  The uh, the all female pool scene, which is more funny for the Kevin Bacon reactions. He's just hilarious in this.

• 1:07:19Speaker 05

  Unbelievable. The cut to him and the wide eyes.

• 1:07:21Speaker 04

  That's another uh, Tommy, how's the peeping moment?

• 1:07:25Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. How's the peeping?

• 1:07:29Bill Simmons?

  Then to the Dylan Bacon reveal in the shower.

• 1:07:32Speaker 05

  Mm hmm. Sure.

• 1:07:33Bill Simmons?

  It's like, oh, these guys are working together.

• 1:07:35Speaker 04

  Bruh, when I was in the movie theater.

• 1:07:37Speaker 06

  I thought they were gonna hook up.

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  I halfway expected him to fuck.

• 1:07:40Speaker 05

  But they're.

• 1:07:40Speaker 04

  It's it's it's.

• 1:07:42Speaker 05

  They're supposed to.

• 1:07:43Speaker 04

  When I'm in, when I was in the movie theater, I was like, oh shit, they in a relationship and this is the whole thing. Now we really progress.

• 1:07:47Speaker 05

  The vibe is palpable.

• 1:07:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:50Bill Simmons?

  The ending and then the closing credits ending would be the other two. What do you got for most rewatchable now?

• 1:07:55Speaker 05

  I I think, and the pool scene is a runner up, I think, but it has to be the motel three scene. There's no question.

• 1:07:58Speaker 04

  This is one of the most rewatchable scenes in a decade.

• 1:08:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's just absolutely no question.

• 1:08:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cause it's got the.

• 1:08:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Bill Simmons?

  Got the reveal.

• 1:08:04Speaker 05

  I would recommend the unrated extended cut of the pool scene though, for anyone who hasn't checked it out. Give it a go.

• 1:08:09Speaker 06

  People have checked it out.

• 1:08:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Speaker 04

  Evil Superman, two chicks on him. Look at this son of a bitch. And look at the yeah down there.

• 1:08:18Speaker 05

  It's incredible.

• 1:08:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Speaker 05

  I like that there's a period. Yeah, you needed punctuation there.

• 1:08:23Bill Simmons?

  What's the most 1998 thing about this movie?

• 1:08:26Speaker 05

  Couple contenders.

• 1:08:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, what do you have? I only had two contenders.

• 1:08:29Speaker 05

  I had two. I, uh, I think we already talked about the soundtrack. But like Smash Mouth, Sugar A, Third Eye Blind is just very of its, of its time. I would say the other is teachers fucking their students. Also, 1998, when Pacey comes into our lives in Dawson's Creek, this is a big moment for this. 99 is like the Cordelia Wesley, not a teacher, but still an adult, the school plot and Buffy, et cetera. So it's just very, uh, of its moment.

• 1:08:54Speaker 04

  To Die For, we were going back over, what was the one with, uh? I mean, it's basically Lolita remade, the one where Alicia Silverstone and Carrie Elway's in it, what's that joint?

• 1:09:03Bill Simmons?

  Oh, The Crush.

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  The Crush. Like, we were doing one of these movies like a year.

• 1:09:09Speaker 05

  This is just a normal part of a plot.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  Now, I could tell you guys why, cuz it, that type of thing just honestly wasn't as frowned upon as far as huge age gaps. I'm not gonna get into celebrities.

• 1:09:22Bill Simmons?

  No, the 90s, the 90s were completely different.

• 1:09:24Speaker 04

  It was a completely different time with that, but they were doing this stuff all the time in movies and TV and stuff.

• 1:09:30Speaker 06

  You can also probably just say the cast. I mean, if I told you, if I said, guess the year this movie came out? And I said, Neve Campbell, Matt Dillon, Denise Richards and Kevin Bacon, what year? I mean, you're probably guessing late 90s.

• 1:09:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you would go late 90s.

• 1:09:40Speaker 06

  That must be a fun trivia game.

• 1:09:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:09:42Speaker 06

  You know?

• 1:09:43Bill Simmons?

  I had two. I have no ballistics for the Kelly Van Ryan murder.

• 1:09:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:09:48Bill Simmons?

  They're just solving that now in five minutes. Like, I shot himself.

• 1:09:50Speaker 05

  Another category, but it's, yeah.

• 1:09:51Bill Simmons?

  And then, um, the obvious winner is Bacon's video camera.

• 1:09:55Speaker 04

  Big ass camera.

• 1:09:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:09:57Bill Simmons?

  That thing was gone. Five years later, those things were half the size. But 10 years earlier, he would have had like, would have been like, taken up his whole shoulder.

• 1:10:06Speaker 05

  Now he's just using his iPhone.

• 1:10:08Bill Simmons?

  What's age the best? What do you have, Mal?

• 1:10:11Speaker 05

  Um, I think Stingers, you know, this is the era of the Stinger with the MCU and especially the mid-credit Stinger. You know, you're not getting five Stingers in the Guardians of the Galaxy credits if, uh, if not for this. Thrupples? This is really a big moment for Thrupples.

• 1:10:26Bill Simmons?

  Thrupples, yeah.

• 1:10:28Speaker 05

  You know, I'm sure we get the lesson, like threesomes rarely work out. I mean, it's hard enough for one person to keep a secret, let alone three. But I don't know that that was the takeaway for most of the impressionable youths watching it. They were like, should I hook up with more than one person at once?

• 1:10:42Speaker 05

  I think the, the class warfare elements of the story certainly like are, are effective. And you get little, it is the actually most like subtle. We're actually trying to say something, I guess, along with like, maybe like the Greek mythology, you know, Helios incorporations into the, the story, but like, you know, the fact that um, death on the installment plan is like the book in Suzie's hand at the trailer park. And she's like, you think, oh, you do, you think I'm like just trash, like my mom, et cetera, all of that. I think it, it, it makes the movie have a little more heft when you revisit it. Short shorts.

• 1:11:16Speaker 04

  Ah.

• 1:11:17Speaker 05

  Great movie for short shorts and short shorts are back.

• 1:11:19Bill Simmons?

  Kind of right as it was, it was kind of trying to come back after the Fab Five.

• 1:11:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:11:24Bill Simmons?

  There was a late nineties reversion back to the short shorts and then we went longer.

• 1:11:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, the sailing shorts.

• 1:11:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 05

  On Sam, very memorable. What, what do you have?

• 1:11:32Speaker 04

  Um, number one, just Goth.

• 1:11:37Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, sure.

• 1:11:37Speaker 04

  Goth is still around.

• 1:11:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:39Speaker 04

  Goth's still putting up numbers.

• 1:11:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, her look is still like.

• 1:11:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42Speaker 04

  Her look is still look, Goth is still around, they're still doing their thing. Like, one of my little nieces, Goth, she doing her things, like, I'm, damn, it's like, there was Goth when I was in school and they're still got now, Goth putting up numbers, shout out to Goth. Um, but it, the.

• 1:11:57Speaker 05

  Incredible.

• 1:11:58Speaker 04

  Not just that, but I don't want to make the pod uncomfortable, but South Florida sex scandals.

• 1:12:04Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  They're like.

• 1:12:05Speaker 05

  Have aged the best.

• 1:12:06Bill Simmons?

  I feel comfortable.

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  The best.

• 1:12:09Speaker 05

  Age the best.

• 1:12:09Speaker 04

  South Florida sex scandals with everything that's in the news now.

• 1:12:13Bill Simmons?

  How about this, we all know this is Florida's fucking off the rails.

• 1:12:17Speaker 04

  Like Tiger Woods.

• 1:12:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:18Speaker 04

  All of that, like, all of that South Florida, like, they, all of that stuff, those things are around and come back all the time.

• 1:12:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like, have you read about this scandal?

• 1:12:27Speaker 04

  Don't leave him out.

• 1:12:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  The owner of the Patriots going down there, you knew I was going there, don't leave him out. That was South Florida.

• 1:12:34Bill Simmons?

  Toughly for us.

• 1:12:34Speaker 04

  South Florida sex scandals, the whole nine, yeah.

• 1:12:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, if you just read the plot of this movie as an actual news story.

• 1:12:44Bill Simmons?

  And you're like, what state do you think this happened in?

• 1:12:46Speaker 05

  Oh, you would, of course, say Florida, no question. And then you would say it was Robert Kraft there.

• 1:12:50Bill Simmons?

  I would also, yeah. I would also have what stage is the best, uh, just South Florida as a location for movies.

• 1:12:59Speaker 05

  I've, this, I have, I've got to pivot on this. I have to go, I've got to swerve on this. This is my candidate for weakest link of the film because I think they don't. Maybe it's my hottest take and I didn't even realize it was the hottest take. I don't, I think that the South Florida is used very well, the Blue Bay and the Everglades as atmosphere and setting, but not really underutilized for plot.

• 1:13:22Bill Simmons?

  I like the atmosphere and the setting and I would argue the plot with some of those weird dive bars that they have. Which one of them is called Smiling Jack's Fish Camp?

• 1:13:33Bill Simmons?

  But I like, I just like New Orleans and this area of Florida for movies.

• 1:13:37Speaker 05

  Like, I have this as a picking nit, but I just find it unacceptable and difficult to believe that one of these alligators doesn't actually eat anybody at any point. Why does that not happen? That should happen. Then I'd have South Florida as the winner.

• 1:13:49Speaker 04

  If you, if, that's the thing. So to me, the backdrop kind of makes it, the sexiness of it, the neo noir of, you know, uh, the same reason.

• 1:13:59Speaker 05

  The humidity and the stickiness.

• 1:14:00Speaker 04

  Same reason why A Time to Kill feels like such a desperate movie because it's like, not only is there racism, but it's just fucking hot, man. Can we get some air conditioning in here? That's why is everybody so upset? And so that works, but to your point, if maybe somebody being found in the Everglades.

• 1:14:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, drown a body in the swamp.

• 1:14:18Speaker 04

  Then maybe that would make a little more sense.

• 1:14:22Speaker 05

  Shower side, side dick? I mean, we don't get Affleck's side dick in Gone Girl without what Kevin Bacon does here. We owe a debt.

• 1:14:28Bill Simmons?

  He does pave the way. Does pave the way. The poster I have for what stage is the best, it's just a great poster.

• 1:14:33Speaker 05

  It is a fantastic poster.

• 1:14:34Bill Simmons?

  Really good. Kind of tells you what the movie is. The two, the two women together look great. I really like the actress who played the other police officer, her name's Daphne Ruben Vega. Never really in anything after this. Very strange IMDB.

• 1:14:48Speaker 04

  She was in, she was in like, I think she was in like, in the Heights, the.

• 1:14:52Bill Simmons?

  That's, that was where it eventually landed for her. And then, as I mentioned earlier, any movie with a MILF saying things like, I don't know anyone who can handle my boat the way you can.

• 1:15:02Speaker 05

  Incredible stuff.

• 1:15:03Speaker 04

  So empowered.

• 1:15:05Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna take one more break and then hit the rest of the categories. This episode is brought to by Ethos. As a parent, life insurance feels like a no brainer. It just gives me peace of mind knowing my family will be taken care of. And Ethos makes getting it fast and easy. Apply online in minutes. Get up to 3 million in coverage with no medical exam, just a few simple health questions. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com/rewatch. That is E T H O S dot com slash rewatch. Application times may vary, rates may vary. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9.

• 1:15:46Bill Simmons?

  John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys, Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters November 6th. Get tickets now. Great shot, Gordo.

• 1:16:31Bill Simmons?

  Van already submitted his nominee, which I thought was great. I would also throw in a wet, post-car crash Denise Richards staring at Dylan with the...

• 1:16:39Speaker 05

  That's a very good one. Sopping wet in the foyer, white t-shirt contest after the...

• 1:16:44Bill Simmons?

  Her friend leaves.

• 1:16:45Speaker 05

  After the car wash.

• 1:16:45Bill Simmons?

  He's trying to find the thing. He comes back in and she's just, we go up from the bottom.

• 1:16:49Speaker 05

  She goes in for the coupon.

• 1:16:50Bill Simmons?

  We go from feet up.

• 1:16:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's really good. I would, I would pick Kelly emerging from the community pool when Ray comes to talk to her in the sheer blue bathing suit.

• 1:17:00Bill Simmons?

  Denethys Benihana wore for scenes still in location.

• 1:17:02Speaker 05

  The Van Ryan home, right?

• 1:17:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:04Speaker 05

  I mean, this is incredible.

• 1:17:05Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if that home is in South Florida, but I thought the house was cool.

• 1:17:08Speaker 05

  Great use of the balcony. The guest house, the gun cabinet, the boat dock, all of it.

• 1:17:13Speaker 04

  I like the Tropic Motel.

• 1:17:16Speaker 05

  The motel is also fantastic.

• 1:17:17Speaker 04

  I'm gonna go back here later, but I like the Tropic Motel.

• 1:17:20Bill Simmons?

  Van, you have a flex category?

• 1:17:22Speaker 04

  My flex category is how would Van Lathan get out of this one?

• 1:17:25Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:17:25Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm not going for a list. So my girl sees me leaving the Tropic Motel with two young white women.

• 1:17:31Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:17:34Speaker 04

  Listen, here's the deal. Uh, I was at the Tropic Motel.

• 1:17:39Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:17:39Speaker 04

  I was with these two young white women.

• 1:17:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:17:41Speaker 04

  But I did it for us.

• 1:17:42Speaker 05

  Okay, this is also, to be clear, after, the rest of the plot has, is intact. This is after the trial.

• 1:17:47Speaker 04

  Just you have, it, it, no, this is just me.

• 1:17:49Speaker 05

  You're the guy who's counselor?

• 1:17:49Speaker 04

  This is just me in this situation.

• 1:17:51Speaker 05

  Just you in the motel?

• 1:17:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:51Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:17:52Speaker 04

  So I did it for us. And let me tell you why. Like, I'm a podcaster and a lot of times people say, Van's obsessed with race. He puts race in every single, uh, conversation. It's black, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, black. I wanted to reach out to the white community. I wanted to reach out and what better way than to get two younger white ladies?

• 1:18:12Bill Simmons?

  Better connection.

• 1:18:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, and talk to them. So I'm like, let's have a conversation.

• 1:18:17Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:18:17Speaker 04

  We're gonna go to the Tropic Motel, cause I don't wanna be seen out in public. You get shot by TMZ, you know they would like to get me.

• 1:18:23Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:18:23Speaker 04

  So I don't wanna be seen.

• 1:18:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, a well-known teacher in the community.

• 1:18:25Speaker 04

  Yes, I wanna go out there and talk to them.

• 1:18:27Speaker 05

  Teacher of the year.

• 1:18:28Speaker 04

  This is what happens. First of all, those girls do not go to Blue Bay High School. I know you heard that?

• 1:18:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:34Speaker 04

  But that's not where they go.

• 1:18:35Bill Simmons?

  They're both 25.

• 1:18:36Speaker 04

  Those girls go to Miami. Okay, so we get inside the room and what do they tell me? They're gigantic fans of me, Joel, Tate and the Duke.

• 1:18:44Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:18:45Speaker 04

  You know, so we in there, you know, we raising the roof, chappel rowing is on, we having the whole conversation.

• 1:18:50Speaker 05

  They just want us to talk about Carson Beck.

• 1:18:51Speaker 04

  I'm reaching out to them. And then guess what happens? Haley brings up the fourth and five that Mendoza converted to really destroy Miami.

• 1:19:03Speaker 05

  Ballsy call from Sig.

• 1:19:04Speaker 04

  And then Hannah starts crying because that really hurt them as Miami fans.

• 1:19:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:10Speaker 04

  One of them brings out some champagne to calm the thing down. And then the champagne gets popped, that's probably what you smelling a little bit got on me.

• 1:19:19Bill Simmons?

  I screamed out, yeah, but it was just cause I had champagne.

• 1:19:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, because it was like, wow, yeah, champagne. I was excited about it and the whole deal, you know?

• 1:19:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:19:27Speaker 04

  I end up talking to them for a long time and really telling them, and I think Miami has the opportunity.

• 1:19:32Speaker 05

  How long, how long of a time?

• 1:19:33Speaker 04

  With crystal balls, look.

• 1:19:34Bill Simmons?

  But then I had to shower cause I had champagne on me.

• 1:19:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, then I had to take my clothes off, I had to shower, I got champagne on me. I think Miami will be back. We end up talking, we really get to. To a place where I feel like everybody was satisfied.

• 1:19:46Bill Simmons?

  Why was Bella Danger there, though?

• 1:19:48Speaker 04

  She was, she was outside just making sure that everybody knew how to get there, right? I lost my phone. Two things. Number one, first of all, tell your friends not to be watching what I'm doing when I'm leaving the Tropic Motel.

• 1:20:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:00Speaker 04

  If they had a man, maybe they wouldn't, that's the, that's the first thing. If they had a man, maybe they wouldn't be worried about what I'm doing. Secondly, if you think that we are going to be able to ignore. Just listen, you've never been in this situation. You gotta go into detail. If you think that we're gonna be able to ignore this part of the population.

• 1:20:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:19Speaker 04

  And still win in 2028, you're crazy. I think I convinced him to vote Democrat. So I did this for us.

• 1:20:25Bill Simmons?

  We can still get this state.

• 1:20:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, we could still, we have to win Florida. I did this for us. Haley and Hannah are friends of the family now. They're coming over. I'm introducing the Jo me, the whole nine. I think we're good.

• 1:20:39Bill Simmons?

  It's amazing stuff. Thank you. It's amazing. Just one of the best. Butch's girlfriend award, weak link of the film. Now we can talk about how the original screenplay and conflict the information of how close they came to filming it. But these guys were supposed to be gay at the end of the movie.

• 1:20:57Speaker 04

  Is that facts?

• 1:20:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. There's supposed to be a shower sex scene with Kevin Bacon and Matt Dillon. I don't think they would have gone that far because this movie is pretty tame for the sex scenes, even though.

• 1:21:08Speaker 06

  There seems to be conflicting reports on who was the one who said they didn't want to see it.

• 1:21:11Speaker 05

  I think it's pretty clear if you listen to their interviews where Matt Dillon is just like, I'm really glad we didn't do it. It seems like Kevin really wanted to, though.

• 1:21:20Bill Simmons?

  I think the conflicting part is, did he shut it down day of?

• 1:21:25Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:21:26Bill Simmons?

  But it was supposed to be in there and.

• 1:21:29Speaker 04

  Guys, it just makes more sense if that's what happened.

• 1:21:32Bill Simmons?

  I always kind of, it's funny because I never researched this movie, but I've obviously seen it over the years. And I always thought they were just insinuating stuff because it was the 90s and they didn't want to cross the line.

• 1:21:41Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:21:42Bill Simmons?

  Um, but now it makes more sense.

• 1:21:45Speaker 06

  Well, like, why is he showering?

• 1:21:46Speaker 04

  Well, if, first of all.

• 1:21:47Bill Simmons?

  Also, who opens the door? And the guy's like, howdy, partner.

• 1:21:50Speaker 06

  Like, if you're not hooking up, you just, you go over to your buddy's house that you have this.

• 1:21:53Speaker 04

  Take a shower.

• 1:21:54Speaker 06

  You're like, oh, we're at the beach.

• 1:21:55Speaker 05

  Fast food at the hotel.

• 1:21:56Speaker 04

  Here's my dick, like, is.

• 1:21:58Speaker 05

  Here's the Coors Light and my dick.

• 1:22:00Speaker 04

  Exactly. It makes much more sense for him to go in and strike up this type of bond with him if they are fucking.

• 1:22:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:22:09Speaker 04

  Because if not, you don't just, the, the first thing y'all do as new friends is not a scheme to kill a bunch of people.

• 1:22:15Speaker 05

  That's the implication, not only in the shower scene and the hotel scene, but also then when we get the, the pickup at the bar. Like, he's there to pick him up.

• 1:22:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's like, you gotta kind of come on to him, and that's the thing that's gonna.

• 1:22:27Speaker 05

  I, I, I have cutting this out or not filming it ultimately as a what's aged the worst. I think the movie makes a lot more sense if this is actually there rather than just implied.

• 1:22:36Bill Simmons?

  It makes it a better movie. Well, that leads us to the Malia Rubin Award for Did This Movie Need A Better Sex Scene?

• 1:22:41Speaker 05

  It needed that. Um, I think, again, just reminding everyone that the pool scene is long. So here's what we get. We get Sandra and Frankie fucking, holding the high heels in the bed, rocking in the bed. Okay, we get the famous motel threesome, wonderful stuff, pouring the champagne, amazing. Underrated perfect detail in the threesome, which we didn't talk about yet. Sam pocketing the panties.

• 1:23:01Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:04Speaker 04

  Guns, cops.

• 1:23:04Speaker 05

  Tells you everything you need to know about that character right there. So I'm just saving these for later. Incredible touch. Then we get the Kelly Suzy pool, uh, hook up with Ray filming and watching. That is a minute-ish longer in the unrated extended cut. You're getting to see some boobs again. They're kissing for a lot longer. They're taking off each other's tops in the pool. So that is there, and it should be in the whole movie. Uh, we need the Sam Ray scene at the end. No question, I think we need that sex scene, but I would also say we need one other thing, and it is somebody masturbating at some point. My specific nomination would be Sam knows that Detective Gloria Perez is watching him through the window because he comes out and he's like. You're watching me, right? And then he brings her in and tries-

• 1:23:47Bill Simmons?

  I'll give you something to watch.

• 1:23:48Speaker 05

  He should just, he should, exactly.

• 1:23:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:50Speaker 05

  He should have started jerking off. He's already shirtless. Just start cranking it. You know she's watching-

• 1:23:57Bill Simmons?

  Like CR, doing the watch.

• 1:23:58Speaker 05

  Crank daddy, a little CR crank daddy, Captain Crank. Why does that not happen? I don't understand.

• 1:24:04Bill Simmons?

  It was the unrealized potential when that, when the other police officer comes in-

• 1:24:08Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:24:09Bill Simmons?

  And it seems like she's gonna go with Matt Dillon.

• 1:24:10Speaker 05

  They're leaning into each other on the bed. We also just could have had them hooking up. But I think her seeing him jerk off. Very titillating. Draws her to him even more fully before the very flimsy like, let me give you this file that will lead you to believe that Kelly definitely wanted to kill Suzie. It's all a little more convincing if she sees his dick.

• 1:24:32Bill Simmons?

  Sam goes to Mama Van Ryan to talk to her after everything's settled and they make up the old fashioned way. I thought they also could have stuck in there.

• 1:24:40Speaker 05

  I have a tweak with the Sandra Van Ryan plot coming in another category.

• 1:24:44Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? We mentioned no soundtrack album, even though we had some of the people that Mal mentioned, Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, Third Eye Blind. Not enough songs for the soundtrack. And this was the soundtrack era. I don't know, I don't know how they fucked this up. Maybe they didn't think it was gonna be that big of a movie, but I, I don't know where the wallflowers were.

• 1:25:07Speaker 05

  Wallflowers.

• 1:25:08Bill Simmons?

  Everclear was sitting right there.

• 1:25:10Speaker 04

  Everclear, man.

• 1:25:11Speaker 05

  Goo Goo Dolls?

• 1:25:12Bill Simmons?

  Cracker was like-

• 1:25:14Speaker 04

  Cracker.

• 1:25:14Bill Simmons?

  What are we doing? Why didn't you call us?

• 1:25:16Speaker 04

  Lit.

• 1:25:17Bill Simmons?

  We just had so many of them.

• 1:25:19Speaker 04

  We should do a special Ringer movies breakout about the death of the soundtrack. Like when the soundtrack-

• 1:25:27Bill Simmons?

  Spotify.

• 1:25:28Speaker 04

  It, it was like-

• 1:25:29Bill Simmons?

  Our overlords. They murdered, they murdered it. It became the playlist.

• 1:25:33Speaker 04

  But the soundtrack-

• 1:25:34Bill Simmons?

  Just make your own fucking playlist for any movie.

• 1:25:36Speaker 04

  It's so difficult. I remember when, when Bad Boys 2 dropped. The Bad Boys 2 soundtrack was as big a deal as the movie was itself. And it's just not a thing no more in no way, shape or form.

• 1:25:49Speaker 05

  Sean and Amanda were just talking about this on Big Pick on the Oscars Mailbag episode. I think and one of their suggestions for a new category was a needle drop category to kind of like reward something like what is PTA doing with the way he incorporates movie, uh, music into his movies? You know, the Scorsese impact on filmmakers through the era. That would be a way to give people like a, uh, incentivize them to invest a little bit more.

• 1:26:11Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? A teacher accused of sleeping with multiple students?

• 1:26:16Speaker 05

  I would.

• 1:26:16Bill Simmons?

  I don't even think he has the chance to clean out his office.

• 1:26:19Speaker 05

  Every single aspect of.

• 1:26:20Bill Simmons?

  You're not allowed back at the school. Somebody else is putting your shit in boxes.

• 1:26:24Speaker 04

  You're fucking done.

• 1:26:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're done.

• 1:26:25Speaker 04

  Like, eh, eh, at this particular point now, like.

• 1:26:28Bill Simmons?

  You're guilty until proven innocent.

• 1:26:30Speaker 04

  They, they rolled this out various, they haven't arrested Mr. Lombardo yet. They haven't fired, like.

• 1:26:35Speaker 05

  That's wild. They're like, we're gonna talk to everybody.

• 1:26:37Bill Simmons?

  And they're like, yeah, we couldn't find anything on him. The guy's like, doing all kinds of crazy shit.

• 1:26:42Speaker 05

  Every nitpick, like you guys said earlier, though, it's lamp shaded by the fact that they're like, oh yeah, well, like Ray was in on it. Or, you know, you have an explanation eventually for all of the things that completely defy belief.

• 1:26:52Bill Simmons?

  And then here's the story in the, uh, unrated version with the extra footage.

• 1:26:57Speaker 05

  This is the biggest what's age the worst, I think. No question.

• 1:26:59Bill Simmons?

  Basically, the, the production company, they went rogue. They filmed all this extra stuff for the movie that he cut out to make it the right version of the movie. And he said, uh, I hated it. Gone way past telling the story. We showed as much as we needed to do in the movie. It's exploitative. It's sleazy. I know that sounds strange talking about this movie, but it destroys the forward motion storytelling. I don't know. He couldn't believe they did it.

• 1:27:24Speaker 05

  Interesting. That's not, I thought you were gonna say something else. That's, that's, that's a weird, I.

• 1:27:28Speaker 04

  I don't know what you guys are talking about. He's talking about the end credit scene, the, the.

• 1:27:31Bill Simmons?

  No, the, the director's cut with the extra footage.

• 1:27:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:35Bill Simmons?

  He was like, what the fuck?

• 1:27:37Speaker 05

  I mean, I guess.

• 1:27:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the director should be able to green light that at least.

• 1:27:41Speaker 05

  I, uh, yeah, I mean, we're pouring champagne on tits in a dirty motel room elsewhere in the movie is like seeing boobs once more in a pool.

• 1:27:49Speaker 04

  It's like, a- at that point, remember, the reason why we, I talked about before, they're selling DVDs. They're trying to make you go buy the DVD.

• 1:27:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:27:56Speaker 04

  So for him, he's, it, it's, it's, it's a little rich for him to kind of get involved. The, the movie wasn't like a gigantic box office hit.

• 1:28:05Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:28:06Speaker 04

  So they're gonna do whatever they had to do.

• 1:28:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:28:08Speaker 04

  To make up for.

• 1:28:09Speaker 05

  Make sure they're talking about it on rewatchables years later. I thought you were.

• 1:28:12Bill Simmons?

  So they have a deleted where they zoom in on Bacon's cock.

• 1:28:15Speaker 04

  Is that true?

• 1:28:16Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:28:16Speaker 05

  That's just the, that's the super special director's cut we're working on.

• 1:28:21Bill Simmons?

  Only Sean has that Blu-ray.

• 1:28:22Speaker 04

  That's the sauna cut.

• 1:28:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, sauna cut.

• 1:28:25Speaker 05

  I thought you were gonna talk about one of the other things in the extended cut. This is a what's aged the worst, which is if you watch the extended cuts should be like, oh, there's an extra minute in a scene you saw. Or a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a scene that you understand why it was cut. Timing, pacing, plot, whatever. There is a scene in the extended cut that radically changes the movie, which is learning that Suzie is Sandra Van Ryan's half-sister. And Kelly's aunt. So first of all, there's an incest element that's introduced, but it's also like, the personal motivation of that's my fortune.

• 1:29:05Bill Simmons?

  I didn't even know if I believed that.

• 1:29:06Speaker 05

  I, I think this, I watched it today. It's on the DVD.

• 1:29:09Speaker 04

  Oh, so it actually exists?

• 1:29:10Speaker 05

  It's real, yes. And like, so the fact that like, you can have a, if you watch one version of it, your understanding of who the character is and why they're doing what they're doing is actually different from the people who watch a different version of the movie, that's bad. That's not what extended cuts should do.

• 1:29:27Speaker 04

  Um, what's aged the worst for me is just the erotic thriller. Like after Unfaithful, which was...

• 1:29:35Speaker 05

  Ah, great movie.

• 1:29:36Speaker 04

  Fucking fantastic. Okay. Might be, Unfaithful might have been like, was that 2001, 2003? Like 2002?

• 1:29:45Bill Simmons?

  We did it like five years ago.

• 1:29:47Speaker 04

  Unfaithful might be the...

• 1:29:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, 2002.

• 1:29:49Speaker 04

  The, along with Fatal Attraction, the prestigious, like, best version perfection. Killer. And then what's she gonna do? She can't do anything. She can't, she's, she's, she's can't say anything. You gotta live with it.

• 1:30:02Bill Simmons?

  She made that bed.

• 1:30:03Speaker 04

  She made that bed. Poor Olivia Martinez. Um, after that, the Hollywood kind of...

• 1:30:07Bill Simmons?

  She's a guy who tried to head some bucks.

• 1:30:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. I love that, not to get into another movie, but hey, yeah, I'm fucking your wife. Have some water. Come in. Let's talk about it. You've been cuffed. Like completely, and then he ends up getting hit with the snowglove.

• 1:30:22Bill Simmons?

  Arguably deserved to die.

• 1:30:24Speaker 04

  Who, Olivia Martinez?

• 1:30:26Bill Simmons?

  We're seeing Victory laughing a little bit.

• 1:30:28Speaker 04

  Let's come in, I'm fucking your wife.

• 1:30:30Bill Simmons?

  The guy, he was...

• 1:30:30Speaker 04

  Can I get some water? He was having a, he was having a panic attack, right?

• 1:30:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34Speaker 04

  But anyway, so, um, but like after that, they kind of stay away from it a little bit. I mean, there've been some.

• 1:30:41Bill Simmons?

  I think internet porn ruined it. I think it's too hard.

• 1:30:45Speaker 04

  Ruin the erotic thriller.

• 1:30:46Bill Simmons?

  I just think.

• 1:30:46Speaker 05

  What else has internet porn ruined for you?

• 1:30:48Bill Simmons?

  It's just too easy to get nudity and sex.

• 1:30:49Speaker 04

  It's been very important for me.

• 1:30:51Bill Simmons?

  Nudity and sex is too easy to get. And the erotic thriller faded away at an appropriate time.

• 1:30:56Speaker 04

  Is such a delicious plot device.

• 1:31:00Bill Simmons?

  You know what the other thing that I think might have happened? We kind of date every version of these. Where like, how many can you, how many plots can you have? It's like how they talk about music, like there's only so many rock and roll.

• 1:31:13Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:31:13Bill Simmons?

  Chords you can play.

• 1:31:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:31:15Bill Simmons?

  How many different ways can you have like somebody's wife set somebody up?

• 1:31:19Speaker 05

  But are you going to the erotic thriller for the plot? You're going for the sensibility. You're going for the essence.

• 1:31:26Bill Simmons?

  Listen, I'm with you guys. I wish there were more erotic thrillers. I think we're just bad at them though.

• 1:31:30Speaker 05

  Body heat.

• 1:31:30Bill Simmons?

  There were too many of them. That was 1981.

• 1:31:33Speaker 04

  Does Baby Girl count as an erotic thriller? No, no.

• 1:31:36Speaker 06

  What about Euphoria?

• 1:31:37Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:31:38Speaker 04

  Could be.

• 1:31:39Speaker 06

  Isn't Euphoria an erotic thriller?

• 1:31:41Speaker 05

  Baby Girl has some elements.

• 1:31:42Bill Simmons?

  It's a TV show.

• 1:31:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, but you just get eight episodes of it.

• 1:31:45Bill Simmons?

  Erotic thriller is like what they kind of tried to do with The Housemaid. Right?

• 1:31:49Speaker 04

  Kind of tried to make it with The Housemaid, I guess.

• 1:31:51Bill Simmons?

  But I don't think people are smart enough now when they do these to understand the black comedy fun part. It's like you're basically serving two masters at the same time. You have to figure out, how do I do both? How do I make the erotic thriller? But it also has to be fun.

• 1:32:05Speaker 05

  Right, a creative threesome, would you say? A throuple of a different story.

• 1:32:09Bill Simmons?

  I need to be able to make fun of what I'm watching in some scenes. Like you gotta push the envelope. I think it's hard.

• 1:32:15Speaker 04

  Craig, doesn't your generation also have like an odd relationship to sex?

• 1:32:21Speaker 06

  I, to be honest, I think that's a generation below me.

• 1:32:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:24Speaker 04

  Oh, you think it's below you?

• 1:32:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think that's people who are like 20 years old right now.

• 1:32:28Bill Simmons?

  The Gooners.

• 1:32:29Speaker 04

  The Gooners, the Gooners.

• 1:32:31Bill Simmons?

  The Gooners. Big Harper's Magazine, Atlantic, one of those.

• 1:32:33Speaker 06

  When they were like eight years old, they had an iPhone and could look up anything they wanted.

• 1:32:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:37Speaker 06

  I didn't really have that until like high school. And even then it was like slow goings. It was a big deal when somebody had like an iPod Touch that had the internet in high school. And somebody could like look up whoever, a photo of an actress topless or something. That was still pretty innocent compared to what like a nine. Nine year old can do right now.

• 1:32:54Speaker 04

  When I say weird relationship with sex, I'm more so describing that like the sex scene itself.

• 1:33:01Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:33:01Speaker 04

  We litigated.

• 1:33:03Speaker 05

  He was asking less about your personal search history.

• 1:33:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, I'm saying like, a lot of times like.

• 1:33:08Bill Simmons?

  You're not on trial, Craig.

• 1:33:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's tough.

• 1:33:11Bill Simmons?

  I'm open book.

• 1:33:11Speaker 04

  When I'm talking to like, like, you know, cause I'm around a lot of younger people at The Ringer. We will talk about whether or not sex scenes should be in movies. Like, I'll have these conversations with the Midnight Boys and they'll be like,

• 1:33:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:33:23Speaker 04

  Why would there be a sex scene in a movie? I'd be like, what are you guys talking about? Like, we watch a movie where a guy jumps into the sun. Like, why, why, the sexy people fuck.

• 1:33:32Speaker 06

  Why don't they think sex scenes should be in movies? I don't agree with that.

• 1:33:34Speaker 04

  There's like a lot of people that think.

• 1:33:36Speaker 05

  That is a generational thing, for sure.

• 1:33:37Speaker 04

  There's a lot of people.

• 1:33:38Speaker 06

  That is gratuitous or unnecessary?

• 1:33:40Speaker 04

  That is gratuitous, unnecessary. Some people say they don't want to be in a movie theater, watching people have sex on camera as a communal experience. They feel weird about that. They feel bashful or whatever.

• 1:33:52Speaker 05

  Great, I invite you to watch it at home, under a fleece blanket, doing whatever you want with your hands.

• 1:33:59Speaker 04

  So I just think that kind of attitude a little bit kills because the erotic thriller, the sex is one of the driving forces of the plot.

• 1:34:06Bill Simmons?

  I have a hard time understanding it because I'm from the scrambled cable channel generation.

• 1:34:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:34:11Bill Simmons?

  Where it's like, I think I just saw a nipple.

• 1:34:12Speaker 04

  Yeah. Random boobs in trading places.

• 1:34:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, you know.

• 1:34:17Bill Simmons?

  The roughlohan and Rubenek Partridge over acting where it clearly goes to Kevin Bacon flipping out in the police station and going, Yeah, you want to say that to my face?

• 1:34:25Speaker 05

  That's, that's a good moment. Yeah, the security guard is like.

• 1:34:28Bill Simmons?

  Like, what's happening?

• 1:34:29Speaker 05

  I had, that's where I had Teresa Russell.

• 1:34:30Speaker 04

  I had Teresa Randall, easy.

• 1:34:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:34:33Bill Simmons?

  Well, she's just the bad acting.

• 1:34:34Speaker 04

  But I had like, my daughter does not get raped.

• 1:34:36Speaker 05

  Balls to the nearest wall.

• 1:34:37Speaker 04

  There's balls to the nearest wall.

• 1:34:39Bill Simmons?

  Flex category for Mel.

• 1:34:41Speaker 05

  Hmm. So I was gonna do the most giftable moment, but we've, which is the cut to Ray's face as he's hiding and filming Kelly and Susie kissing the wide eyes and then the glance down. But we've already talked about that so much, I'll go with an alt. Um, I'll do the Sarah Kana award for would modern technology ruin this movie?

• 1:34:58Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:35:00Speaker 05

  You already mentioned the ballistics. There is like a mention of, you know, the blood evidence and the, the blood match and the, the DNA and it'll take a couple of weeks. So it's accounted for, but obviously the CSI tech of, of the day radically changes what the plot could be, but I'm talking more like text messages.

• 1:35:17Speaker 06

  They would have been screwed.

• 1:35:18Speaker 05

  DMs, cellphone tower pings.

• 1:35:20Speaker 06

  The nudes in the discovery process.

• 1:35:22Speaker 05

  Internet search history, the, the plot falls apart in two seconds.

• 1:35:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're right. This movie can't happen.

• 1:35:28Speaker 05

  It doesn't work at.

• 1:35:29Speaker 06

  They would have had to stick strictly to Snapchat. I don't know if they could have done it.

• 1:35:32Speaker 05

  Oh, weird. Their, their cell phones all pinged at the motel in the same room at the same moment. Odd, like it's done from the jump.

• 1:35:39Bill Simmons?

  Trying to erase their texts.

• 1:35:40Speaker 04

  I love my interrogation videos where they're sitting down talking to someone and they go, I wasn't there. And then the cops go, dude.

• 1:35:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:35:49Speaker 04

  You had your cellphone with you, so we got you legitimately five feet away from it happening. I was never there.

• 1:35:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:35:56Speaker 04

  And then they go, here how, here's how cellphone towers work.

• 1:36:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:36:00Speaker 04

  It sends a signal here, we send the signal back and then just like the life drains from the suspect's face.

• 1:36:07Speaker 05

  This modern technology turns this movie into the end of episode one of Adolescence.

• 1:36:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:36:11Speaker 05

  Basically, it's just, oh, Suzy, we have in your recent Google history, how to pull out my own tooth.

• 1:36:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:19Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's destroyed all these cases, except for the Karen Reed case, which somehow took two years to try to figure out and is now going to another trial.

• 1:36:26Speaker 04

  Doesn't always work.

• 1:36:28Bill Simmons?

  The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. Do you have one, Van?

• 1:36:33Speaker 04

  I do not. The, the, the movie was so right in front of your face. I had trouble coming up with a hot take. I know Mallory didn't.

• 1:36:41Speaker 05

  They should have killed Sandra Van Ryan. That's just the better scheme. Just kill her and get the money that way. It is stated multiple times that you unlock the trust after she dies. Just kill her. Why do we need this convoluted, there are all of these secret duos inside of the trio, inside of the quartet? Kill her, take the money and turn on each other then.

• 1:37:06Speaker 04

  Well, I take eight million. I bet she's worth like fifty. I bet it's like sixty.

• 1:37:11Speaker 05

  Real estate heiress. Should have just killed her. Knock her off the balcony.

• 1:37:15Bill Simmons?

  My take might be too hot.

• 1:37:16Speaker 05

  Let's have it. I mean, mere weeks ago, Chris Ryan sat in this chair and said they should have just used the cello strings for murder. So I think you're safe.

• 1:37:25Speaker 04

  And by the way, it doesn't get hotter than Smells Like Teen Spirit isn't a good record. So just go for it, Rob. What the fuck is, what the fuck you got going on?

• 1:37:31Speaker 05

  Wild.

• 1:37:32Bill Simmons?

  Hey, Neve Campbell, take your no nudity clause and find another movie.

• 1:37:37Speaker 05

  You actually, okay.

• 1:37:39Bill Simmons?

  Find another movie. Guess what? You're invited to the barbecue. We're serving ribs and meat. And if you're a vegetarian, go find another party.

• 1:37:52Speaker 04

  I'm with it. Fuck it. You know what I mean?

• 1:37:54Bill Simmons?

  Know what you signed up for.

• 1:37:58Speaker 04

  I told you it was hot. I'm not with it. I'm with it. Triple H got busy. We talk about basic instinct. Sharon Stone is in there.

• 1:38:06Bill Simmons?

  Are we here to play basketball? Are we here to just play pickup?

• 1:38:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:38:13Bill Simmons?

  Again, that was the hottest take.

• 1:38:14Speaker 05

  Sure was.

• 1:38:17Bill Simmons?

  I have a backup hottest take. If we have to delete that one out.

• 1:38:20Speaker 04

  No, I like that.

• 1:38:22Speaker 06

  I didn't think you survived it. I don't know.

• 1:38:24Speaker 04

  I like, I fuck with it.

• 1:38:26Bill Simmons?

  Thank you. The Van Lathan Award for Did This Movie Need More Black People?

• 1:38:31Speaker 04

  Hell no. Perfect amount. This is one of perfect amount.

• 1:38:34Speaker 06

  There's a couple of black people in this movie.

• 1:38:35Speaker 04

  Couple of black people in there.

• 1:38:36Speaker 06

  The cop, the guy at the school.

• 1:38:37Speaker 04

  Staying out of all of these motherfuckers' business.

• 1:38:43Speaker 04

  People like, the principal in school, damn, Sam. Peace, bro. We really fucked with you. Take your teacher of the year trophy. Get the fuck out of here, man. Perfect amount.

• 1:38:54Bill Simmons?

  Casting what ifs.

• 1:38:55Speaker 05

  There's some good ones for this movie.

• 1:38:57Speaker 04

  The one, the Titanic one, I was shocked by.

• 1:38:59Speaker 05

  Downey? R D?

• 1:39:01Bill Simmons?

  I didn't know the Downey one. So Robert Downey Jr. Was supposed to be Sam and could not get insured.

• 1:39:07Speaker 05

  What do you think?

• 1:39:07Bill Simmons?

  And he was having drug issues and they just couldn't pull it off.

• 1:39:10Speaker 05

  Is he, is he great as Sam Lombardo?

• 1:39:13Speaker 06

  I don't think he can pull off seeming like a clean teacher at the beginning. I think you would know he's dirty immediately.

• 1:39:18Speaker 04

  I think his, his reputation would have preceded him in that regard. And I also think that. While Downey, I think, I think Sam Lombardo has to be a little bit more dashing than what Robert Downey is.

• 1:39:33Speaker 05

  He's handsome.

• 1:39:34Speaker 04

  He is handsome, he is handsome, and especially the young version of him.

• 1:39:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:39:38Bill Simmons?

  I almost thought he would have made more sense in the bacon part.

• 1:39:41Speaker 04

  Oh, that's, that, because he, he almost played that guy in US Marshals.

• 1:39:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:39:45Speaker 05

  Yeah. And then like revealed to be embroiled in the scheme.

• 1:39:49Bill Simmons?

  I gotta say, I really like Matt Dillon in this movie.

• 1:39:51Speaker 05

  Matt Dillon's perfect. I think Downey's so great that he, I kind of feel like he could do anything well, so I certainly think he could have done this well. He has the like, easy charm that Sam Lombardo needs to suck you in. And then you realize what's really afoot, no? He would have been great.

• 1:40:07Speaker 04

  But he's also just, for the film, he's such an insanely incredible actor.

• 1:40:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:40:13Speaker 04

  That you might have.

• 1:40:14Bill Simmons?

  It's too much firepower.

• 1:40:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, you might have to worry about him lapping some people in some of these.

• 1:40:18Speaker 05

  That's true, yeah.

• 1:40:20Speaker 04

  And that's not, that's not on Kevin Bacon, because Kevin Bacon's a fucking great actor.

• 1:40:23Bill Simmons?

  Has he been in a movie like this?

• 1:40:25Speaker 05

  Downey?

• 1:40:26Speaker 04

  Um, what, what was the indie that he did, Two Girls and a Guy? Remember that one? That was him, Heather Graham, and I cannot remember who else was in that joint.

• 1:40:36Bill Simmons?

  We also have the Natasha Lyonne auditioning for Suzie and not getting it. And then Tara Reid auditioning for Kelly Van Ryan and not getting it.

• 1:40:43Speaker 05

  Tara Reid would have been honestly a great Kelly, I think.

• 1:40:47Bill Simmons?

  Trying to think, that same year as American Pie?

• 1:40:49Speaker 05

  Uh, one year before, American Pie's 99, right? I think, yeah.

• 1:40:53Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, I think Denise Richards is perfect.

• 1:40:55Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, yeah, of course, she is.

• 1:40:56Bill Simmons?

  For this, because Tara Reid was almost too young. Part of the problem with this is if you have, you almost needed the older actors playing high school students, because it's basically softcore porn.

• 1:41:07Speaker 04

  Natasha Grissom Wagner was the other lady, yeah, you probably, I think that Denise Richards had that little twinkle in her eye, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:41:13Bill Simmons?

  Best that guy word. I'm gonna obey Craig's rule that we're going too stealth with the that guys.

• 1:41:21Speaker 05

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:41:22Bill Simmons?

  So we'll just do Robert Wagner, even though he's Robert Wagner.

• 1:41:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:41:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, for Craig's generation, he's number two from all the powers.

• 1:41:29Speaker 05

  What about Jeff Perry?

• 1:41:30Speaker 04

  The Jeff Perry, the guy.

• 1:41:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, the DA, right?

• 1:41:33Bill Simmons?

  I tried, Craig. I tried to serve the under thirties.

• 1:41:35Speaker 05

  Nash Bridges scandal. Oh, that guy.

• 1:41:37Speaker 04

  Or, or the fucking.

• 1:41:39Speaker 05

  Corey Penter, Penter Gas, Jimmy?

• 1:41:41Speaker 04

  The, the, the guy who is Neve Campbell's like surrogate uncle or whatever that gets the.

• 1:41:47Speaker 05

  Walter?

• 1:41:48Speaker 04

  The ton of shit. Walter at the end of it. I get, isn't that guy in everything? He's been a long shit, you know? Robert Wagner, though, I feel like is Robert Wagner.

• 1:41:54Bill Simmons?

  The mom of Neve Campbell in this movie is like a that, I don't even know what her name is, but she's.

• 1:41:59Speaker 05

  Again, as the extended cut tells us, not actually her mom, not her grandma, not related to her at all.

• 1:42:04Speaker 06

  There's a second Charlie Sheen connection to this movie. Jennifer Taylor, who plays the, the first girlfriend of Matt Dillon, has a long run in Two and a Half Men as Charlie Sheen's girlfriend.

• 1:42:13Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 1:42:14Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:42:15Bill Simmons?

  Diane Waiters Award just goes to Bill Murray. We don't even need to negotiate.

• 1:42:18Speaker 05

  This is the easiest one in a long time.

• 1:42:20Speaker 04

  After him is fucking.

• 1:42:21Bill Simmons?

  We should keep track of, is that the best Diane Waiters we're gonna have in 26? Had some pretty good ones.

• 1:42:27Speaker 05

  That's, it's just, that was so easy.

• 1:42:28Bill Simmons?

  So we're casting couch director city. I have a really good one for this, but did you have one?

• 1:42:33Speaker 05

  Are you going with director?

• 1:42:35Bill Simmons?

  No. There's an actor who missed, who would have been perfect for this movie, but was not old enough yet to be in the movie.

• 1:42:44Speaker 05

  Oh, for which role? Sam? For the Sam role?

• 1:42:47Bill Simmons?

  Neve Campbell's role.

• 1:42:50Speaker 05

  Not old enough to be in the movie.

• 1:42:52Bill Simmons?

  This person, five years later, is perfect.

• 1:42:56Speaker 04

  Give me a hint.

• 1:42:58Bill Simmons?

  Kinda played this part in a different movie in the 02, 03 range, a version of it.

• 1:43:05Speaker 04

  Kinda played this part.

• 1:43:06Bill Simmons?

  Scarlett Johansson.

• 1:43:07Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:43:08Speaker 04

  In Neve Campbell's role?

• 1:43:09Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:43:10Speaker 04

  She is way too attractive, Bill.

• 1:43:13Bill Simmons?

  Did you ever see The Perfect Score with Darius Miles?

• 1:43:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I've seen The Perfect Score with Darius Miles.

• 1:43:19Bill Simmons?

  Plays this character in The Perfect Score. She strips down, she's a little gothy, and I think she could have done it.

• 1:43:25Speaker 05

  I, that's.

• 1:43:25Bill Simmons?

  And I think she, I think she would have even maybe improvised some stuff.

• 1:43:30Speaker 04

  But the prob, the problem is, then it's, it's gonna become a tit off.

• 1:43:35Bill Simmons?

  And that, why is that a problem?

• 1:43:36Speaker 04

  It's not a problem, but it's like, now you're, now you're, you're putting two of the Titanic's against each other.

• 1:43:43Bill Simmons?

  Scarlett's like, no nudity clause?

• 1:43:45Speaker 04

  Fuck that.

• 1:43:46Bill Simmons?

  Whips that over her shoulder.

• 1:43:48Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 1:43:49Bill Simmons?

  But I thought, I think that would have been that kind of energy, maybe if you're trying to really jazz this movie up with the Suzy character, you move in that range. Craig, you have a flex category?

• 1:44:00Speaker 06

  Devil Wears Prada Award, is this movie actually perfect for what it tried to do?

• 1:44:04Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:44:05Speaker 06

  I would argue 100% yes.

• 1:44:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:44:07Speaker 06

  You know the meme, sometimes I forget, this is the whole point?

• 1:44:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:10Speaker 06

  It's kind of going around?

• 1:44:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:11Speaker 06

  When you watch this movie, you're like, you know what? Sometimes I forget that this is all it's supposed to be.

• 1:44:16Speaker 05

  Great one.

• 1:44:18Speaker 05

  Great one.

• 1:44:19Bill Simmons?

  That's great. Just try to run the ball twice, use a little play action and keep moving the chains.

• 1:44:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:27Bill Simmons?

  Don't overthink it. Try to get into third and fourth, third and three. FSR research, there's apparently a dead body?

• 1:44:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:44:34Bill Simmons?

  That halted filming?

• 1:44:35Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:44:35Bill Simmons?

  That sounded really fun. They had to halt production for a second to get the dead body out of the swamp?

• 1:44:40Speaker 05

  Incredible.

• 1:44:40Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, so Kevin Bacon, he also, we talked about his no nudity clause. How common are these no nudity clauses? Are they just standard when you're an actor?

• 1:44:53Speaker 04

  Why would you need one though? If you're, if you're Kevin Bacon, it's an interesting question. If you're Kevin Bacon, you say, I'm not getting naked. What?

• 1:45:00Bill Simmons?

  Does it protect the actor from?

• 1:45:02Speaker 04

  From getting fired?

• 1:45:03Bill Simmons?

  I didn't realize this was getting flash?

• 1:45:04Speaker 05

  Something developing on set that leads to like a, you feeling like you need to make a decision in real time?

• 1:45:10Bill Simmons?

  I feel like I'd read a 5,000 word feature on the history of no nudity clauses, why they had to come up with this.

• 1:45:16Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, I assume for some people, it's like boilerplate part of their like contract language, their base agreement. And then maybe for some people, it's like script specific.

• 1:45:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, I remember Sharon.

• 1:45:25Speaker 05

  Erotic thriller, I'm putting a note, you know?

• 1:45:26Bill Simmons?

  Sharon Stone in The Specialist, I remember the sex scene had to be like storyboarded out for what she would do and wouldn't do after basic instinct.

• 1:45:35Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:45:35Bill Simmons?

  So I, I get it, but it's just interesting that he would have one. I don't really understand it.

• 1:45:41Bill Simmons?

  McNaughton's editor with the dick shot, who is a female, said, "It's not fair. You guys have seen after seen him topless babes. This one's for us." Then they had to go ask Bacon and who claimed he was fine with that. I have some thoughts. I'm saving it for another category.

• 1:45:57Speaker 05

  The best part of that is that he was like, "How did I look?"

• 1:46:01Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:46:01Speaker 05

  Apparently.

• 1:46:01Speaker 04

  You have to. You have to ask that.

• 1:46:03Bill Simmons?

  The film was retitled "In France, Italy and Belgium."

• 1:46:06Speaker 05

  Sex crimes.

• 1:46:07Bill Simmons?

  Sex crimes.

• 1:46:08Speaker 04

  Not great.

• 1:46:10Bill Simmons?

  Because it was, the original title didn't work. Film's final scene, Mallory mentioned this earlier, when Bill Murray shows up, it's because Peter Guber, legendary producer, the test screening, everybody loved Neve Campbell and Bill Murray.

• 1:46:26Speaker 05

  Ken Bowden.

• 1:46:26Bill Simmons?

  He was like, "We should work them into the ending because they felt like the ending was missing one thing." So they worked it into the ending. That was that.

• 1:46:33Speaker 05

  It was missing one thing because they didn't let Ray and Sam fuck like they should have.

• 1:46:38Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:46:38Speaker 04

  Because if that, that makes the movie, I feel like if they do that, the movie is like an actual classic.

• 1:46:43Bill Simmons?

  By the way, all he has to do is get in the shower and we're good. It's not like we need like.

• 1:46:47Speaker 04

  Getting the shower, you don't want to see it.

• 1:46:49Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm just saying, we didn't need the three minutes in the shower. I'm just saying, he's just getting the shower and we're like, "Okay." Now I know what's going on.

• 1:46:56Speaker 04

  Get in the shower and then show them just like dropping the towel and then you cut away.

• 1:47:00Bill Simmons?

  But that's what I would have said to Matt Dillon.

• 1:47:01Speaker 05

  A hand going into the steaming glass.

• 1:47:03Bill Simmons?

  If Matt Dillon's like, "I'm not doing this," be like, "How about, how about plan B? You get in the shower."

• 1:47:06Speaker 05

  Butt cheek would be great. Yeah. Where are you guys on shower sex?

• 1:47:10Speaker 04

  Like an actual.

• 1:47:11Speaker 05

  Or pool sex, water sex of any sort. Yeah.

• 1:47:13Speaker 04

  I enjoy, I think for the first, because I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna ask you guys a sex question later too. I enjoy.

• 1:47:21Bill Simmons?

  Let's bring in HR.

• 1:47:22Speaker 04

  Bill, relax.

• 1:47:24Speaker 05

  You asked both of us to be on the same podcast, so this is your fault.

• 1:47:28Speaker 04

  I think I enjoy for about the first nine minutes and then you move out of the area of.

• 1:47:36Speaker 05

  For the first nine minutes, just an incredible flex from him right there.

• 1:47:39Bill Simmons?

  Notice how he didn't say 10. He felt like 10 was too aggressive.

• 1:47:42Speaker 04

  The first nine minutes I enjoyed, then you have to, you have to switch locations.

• 1:47:45Speaker 05

  But it's only the first nine minutes. There are more minutes.

• 1:47:47Speaker 04

  Sting over here, baby.

• 1:47:51Speaker 04

  You guys have heard the lore.

• 1:47:52Bill Simmons?

  We're not even at Apex Mountain yet.

• 1:47:55Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain Denise Richards, 100% yes.

• 1:47:57Speaker 05

  Without doubt, yeah.

• 1:47:59Bill Simmons?

  Neve Campbell, probably yes too. Party Five still on, coming off Scream.

• 1:48:02Speaker 04

  Aw, come on, Scream.

• 1:48:03Bill Simmons?

  See, there's Scream or this.

• 1:48:04Speaker 04

  Scream, it's Scream. She's still doing that role today.

• 1:48:07Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 1:48:07Bill Simmons?

  So you would say 96 Scream? Cause I would argue this, like, actually combined with Scream.

• 1:48:13Speaker 05

  Cause this is like right with Scream 2, right?

• 1:48:14Bill Simmons?

  But it didn't really lead to an awesome thing, so maybe not. Threesome scenes in a movie?

• 1:48:20Speaker 05

  Oh, boy.

• 1:48:21Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if this was the best ever, but it was certainly the...

• 1:48:23Speaker 04

  The most ballyhooed.

• 1:48:24Bill Simmons?

  It was the Dr. J and the dunk contest. It's like, whoa, he dunked from the foul end. What the hell just happened?

• 1:48:34Speaker 04

  I didn't know a human could do that.

• 1:48:37Bill Simmons?

  Did I just see that correctly? Uh, Kevin Bacon, no. Matt Dillon, yes, cause of this and there's something about Mary. I think this was...

• 1:48:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:48:43Bill Simmons?

  He's got it all going. Blue Bay, Florida? I'm gonna say yes, cause this isn't a real place.

• 1:48:49Speaker 05

  Great name for a town.

• 1:48:52Bill Simmons?

  Bill Murray, no way.

• 1:48:53Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:48:53Bill Simmons?

  High school sailing teams? Maybe?

• 1:48:56Speaker 04

  Maybe.

• 1:48:57Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:48:57Speaker 04

  The movie?

• 1:48:57Bill Simmons?

  Can't remember that in another movie?

• 1:48:59Speaker 05

  Interesting.

• 1:49:01Bill Simmons?

  Champagne being used where it seems like a gun, but then it turns out to be champagne to kick off a threesome? Sure.

• 1:49:07Speaker 05

  Just a wonderful, creative choice.

• 1:49:10Bill Simmons?

  Cruise or Hanks?

• 1:49:11Speaker 04

  Cruise and Hanks.

• 1:49:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was my answer too. Cruise is Sam.

• 1:49:15Bill Simmons?

  You kept the pick. We're not...

• 1:49:17Speaker 05

  Alright, then Cruise is Sam LeBardo.

• 1:49:19Speaker 04

  Who is Matt Dillon? Well, Matt Dillon is Tom Cruise. Tom Hanks has no place in this movie.

• 1:49:25Bill Simmons?

  Tom Cruise.

• 1:49:26Speaker 04

  Except opposite Tom Hanks, opposite Tom Cruise if they're both in the movie.

• 1:49:30Bill Simmons?

  Hold up the photo again.

• 1:49:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:49:32Bill Simmons?

  Trying to picture Cruise here.

• 1:49:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:34Speaker 05

  Yeah!

• 1:49:35Bill Simmons?

  Really, really trying.

• 1:49:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:38Speaker 05

  Cruise could be a great Sam LeBardo, I think. This is a year before Eyes Wide Shut.

• 1:49:43Bill Simmons?

  Trying to think where he'd run though in this movie. Probably have to add that. Maybe he's jogging?

• 1:49:47Speaker 05

  Tour from a dock to get on a boat?

• 1:49:49Bill Simmons?

  The car scene when the car pushes Matt Dillon's car off? Maybe he's jogging and the car pushes him off the road as a jogger?

• 1:49:55Speaker 05

  Yes!

• 1:49:56Bill Simmons?

  He starts sprinting.

• 1:49:57Speaker 04

  Dillon, they didn't, they didn't, Sam didn't factor that into the equation.

• 1:49:59Speaker 05

  That's one of the places... I had this as a picking nit. It's like not, it's a really unreasonable part of their plot.

• 1:50:06Speaker 04

  He easily could've died there.

• 1:50:07Speaker 05

  Like, well, wait, someone could kill me actually because of this. Also, that's where an alligator could've eaten someone, could've eaten Frankie?

• 1:50:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:12Speaker 05

  Missed opportunity.

• 1:50:13Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese or Spielberg? This is Scorsese.

• 1:50:15Speaker 05

  No question, Scorsese.

• 1:50:16Bill Simmons?

  Best hang, worst hang? Bill Murray, best hang, worst hang? Alligator guy?

• 1:50:20Speaker 04

  Uh, the guy putting teeth that he found in his mouth, yes.

• 1:50:24Speaker 05

  Oh, Walter, yeah.

• 1:50:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:27Bill Simmons?

  Picking nits.

• 1:50:29Speaker 05

  I've got a few.

• 1:50:30Speaker 04

  I got, I got one big one.

• 1:50:31Bill Simmons?

  What's your big one?

• 1:50:32Speaker 04

  Do y'all stop fucking to answer the phone?

• 1:50:35Bill Simmons?

  With Sandra Van Ryan?

• 1:50:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, I see this in every movie, right? To where the phone is ringing and then somebody goes, oh, stop and scroll with your hands. I gotta get that. What the fuck are you talking about?

• 1:50:48Bill Simmons?

  So in your first nine minutes, you're not answering the phone?

• 1:50:50Speaker 04

  I'm not answering the phone, period.

• 1:50:51Speaker 05

  In the second, however many minutes.

• 1:50:53Speaker 04

  In the second, I'm like, I'm not answering the phone, period. Do y'all, for, just as a, do y'all stop having sex? Audience, think about this. You answer the phone, do you stop having sex?

• 1:51:02Bill Simmons?

  Well, so if it's three in the morning, you might think something terrible happened would be the only, but it wasn't three in the morning.

• 1:51:07Speaker 05

  No, this is the middle of the day.

• 1:51:09Speaker 06

  If you have children in high school, it could be something.

• 1:51:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, because she's mother of the year, this one. Super worried about her kid and engaged with her kid's life.

• 1:51:18Speaker 04

  The only thing that I could think.

• 1:51:20Bill Simmons?

  No, it's stupid.

• 1:51:21Speaker 04

  This is that this is an era where the, this person called you doesn't exist. The missed call, I mean, they're answering machines, but like.

• 1:51:30Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you wouldn't even know what the call was.

• 1:51:32Speaker 04

  You wouldn't even know what the call was.

• 1:51:33Speaker 05

  But it's also the beeper era.

• 1:51:35Speaker 04

  It's also the beeper era.

• 1:51:36Speaker 05

  So you could let the call go because if it was important, someone would beep you.

• 1:51:40Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:51:42Speaker 04

  Offshoot question, real quick.

• 1:51:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:51:44Speaker 04

  Who would have to be calling you?

• 1:51:46Speaker 05

  To, for you to answer?

• 1:51:47Speaker 04

  For you to answer.

• 1:51:48Speaker 05

  But how would you know?

• 1:51:49Speaker 04

  Is Daniel Eck.

• 1:51:49Speaker 05

  Oh, you could, you could hear it on your, on your answering machine.

• 1:51:54Speaker 05

  This is the answering machine era, so you let it go to.

• 1:51:56Bill Simmons?

  Hold on, it's Eck.

• 1:51:57Speaker 05

  You let it go to the answering machine and it's like, Bill, it's Daniel. So you hear it in the room, then you have to stop and pick up, right?

• 1:52:04Bill Simmons?

  We're not getting earnings tomorrow, I gotta get this.

• 1:52:06Speaker 05

  Right now, you wouldn't know.

• 1:52:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:08Speaker 05

  Unless you stop to look at your phone. It's going right to voicemail, you're not gonna hear it.

• 1:52:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:13Speaker 05

  I do have one personal story where this did happen.

• 1:52:15Bill Simmons?

  Gotta hear it.

• 1:52:17Speaker 04

  What?

• 1:52:19Speaker 05

  I'm debating whether to share it. This is a true story.

• 1:52:27Speaker 05

  This is true.

• 1:52:31Speaker 05

  A certain young man who I will, who will remain nameless, I'll protect his identity.

• 1:52:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37Speaker 05

  We were losing our virginity to each other.

• 1:52:39Speaker 04

  Holy hell.

• 1:52:40Speaker 05

  And the phone rang and we were at his house and we knew that his parents were coming home. So the phone rang and it was like, better answer it just in case they're like, I'm downstairs with the groceries. But it was a real mood killer. Gotta say, real mood killer.

• 1:52:59Speaker 04

  You got, but that you gotta pick that call up.

• 1:53:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, you had to pick the call up, you had to. It was like, parents are out, we gotta, you know, we gotta.

• 1:53:05Bill Simmons?

  So when we do the movie like.

• 1:53:06Speaker 05

  First nine minutes.

• 1:53:07Speaker 04

  First nine minutes.

• 1:53:08Speaker 05

  Make it count.

• 1:53:09Bill Simmons?

  When they do like the Freddie Mercury Queen movie, like the biopic, when it's about Mao, that's like in the first 10 minutes.

• 1:53:15Speaker 04

  First 10 minutes.

• 1:53:16Bill Simmons?

  Losing the virginity gone wrong scene.

• 1:53:17Speaker 04

  That's the first scene of the movie.

• 1:53:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:53:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:19Speaker 05

  Maybe he'll listen to this pod and he'll reach out. Maybe his dad will listen to this pod and reach out.

• 1:53:24Bill Simmons?

  He reaches out from [email protected].

• 1:53:30Bill Simmons?

  Nitpicks, does Kelly like her mom, not like her mom?

• 1:53:32Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:53:33Bill Simmons?

  Will I like her mom? What's going on here?

• 1:53:34Speaker 04

  What are you talking about?

• 1:53:36Bill Simmons?

  She's confiding in her.

• 1:53:37Speaker 05

  No, she's using her. She's, she's not confiding in her, she's lying in her, she's using her as a.

• 1:53:43Bill Simmons?

  But then, okay.

• 1:53:44Speaker 05

  An aspect of the scheme.

• 1:53:45Speaker 04

  Part of the film that she hates.

• 1:53:47Bill Simmons?

  Back to an earlier mouth point, just fucking kill her then.

• 1:53:49Speaker 05

  Exactly. Just kill her and take the money. Clearly she blames her for the father's death. That seems apparent, right?

• 1:53:55Speaker 04

  I think that there's a version, well, we'll talk about it later. Um, but yeah, she, she hates the mom for sure.

• 1:54:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:01Bill Simmons?

  All right, then she should have killed her.

• 1:54:03Speaker 05

  And she is jealous because of the relationship between Sandra and Sam.

• 1:54:06Bill Simmons?

  Murder.

• 1:54:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:07Bill Simmons?

  There's just not enough time for the fake Suzie death scene when we see the closing credits after.

• 1:54:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:15Bill Simmons?

  Where Denise Richards goes to get something from the car. In that time.

• 1:54:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:21Bill Simmons?

  They have to pull out two of her teeth.

• 1:54:23Speaker 05

  Right. And he has to like not be able to do it effectively first.

• 1:54:26Bill Simmons?

  Kill her.

• 1:54:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:27Bill Simmons?

  And.

• 1:54:28Speaker 05

  The fake bludgeoning.

• 1:54:29Bill Simmons?

  Which leads to my biggest nitpick.

• 1:54:33Bill Simmons?

  She lost two teeth. Then in the end of the movie, she's full set of teeth.

• 1:54:36Speaker 05

  Well, they've got eight and a half million dollars.

• 1:54:38Bill Simmons?

  They got a lot of money.

• 1:54:38Speaker 05

  So she can probably afford some dental work.

• 1:54:41Bill Simmons?

  They don't have the money yet.

• 1:54:43Speaker 05

  Well.

• 1:54:43Bill Simmons?

  And where is she getting dental work?

• 1:54:45Speaker 05

  Hold on, though.

• 1:54:45Bill Simmons?

  She's supposed to be dead.

• 1:54:46Speaker 05

  Hold on.

• 1:54:46Bill Simmons?

  She's like, can I have your insurance? No, you can't.

• 1:54:48Speaker 04

  Where were they? Weren't they in an island, though?

• 1:54:50Speaker 05

  They're in the Caribbean.

• 1:54:51Speaker 04

  They're in the Caribbean already.

• 1:54:52Speaker 05

  This is.

• 1:54:52Bill Simmons?

  Should she have been missing two teeth?

• 1:54:54Speaker 04

  Oh, wait a second. I know what this is.

• 1:54:56Bill Simmons?

  What?

• 1:54:57Speaker 04

  You don't think that Caribbean nations have the expertise in dentistry to be able to fix her like that?

• 1:55:02Bill Simmons?

  It just, how many? But how many weeks?

• 1:55:04Speaker 04

  I'm back already. I'm back already. I'm doing my job for the community. Anguilla Barbados, all of these places, they got dentists too, Bill.

• 1:55:11Bill Simmons?

  It's two weeks.

• 1:55:12Speaker 04

  Check your privilege.

• 1:55:13Bill Simmons?

  It's two weeks. She's in hiding. Do you think she's like, you know, I know I'm in hiding, but this, these two missing teeth are driving me crazy.

• 1:55:21Speaker 04

  I gotta go get my dentist.

• 1:55:22Bill Simmons?

  I gotta risk it all to fix these two teeth.

• 1:55:24Speaker 05

  She did it right after or right before getting the wig. But on your, so.

• 1:55:26Bill Simmons?

  You're not fixing your teeth until like a year later. I'm sorry. You're waiting a year.

• 1:55:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, with like, with one tooth missing out your shit.

• 1:55:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:34Speaker 05

  It's her life of luxury.

• 1:55:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:55:36Speaker 05

  This is yacht life.

• 1:55:37Bill Simmons?

  She doesn't have the money yet. She doesn't get the money until the end.

• 1:55:40Speaker 05

  No, wait, hold on. On the money front, this is one of my picking it. So it's related to your point. We gotta, we gotta dive into the money thing. The detectives look at the SunTrust bank account. And we see, and this is alluded to in the, in the dialogue elsewhere. $327,000 to Playa Properties. $160,000 to the yacht brokers to get the ship. So Sam is maybe okay, like if, that's all traceable, they would be able to find them, is the point. Now, Sam elsewhere, he's like, when he's still at the motel, I'm living life like a rich guy. I'm doing what rich guys are supposed to do. Maybe he doesn't care if he's found, but Ray goes and meets him there.

• 1:56:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:15Speaker 05

  Suzie is there and hiding with him when she's supposed to be dead. And is now on the boat.

• 1:56:22Bill Simmons?

  Well, this is the other nitpick.

• 1:56:23Speaker 04

  How the fuck is she on the boat? How's she getting a boat? Yeah.

• 1:56:26Speaker 05

  But it's all traceable.

• 1:56:28Speaker 04

  And where is she staying this whole time?

• 1:56:29Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:56:29Speaker 05

  Because he did have the money and he was spending it.

• 1:56:32Speaker 04

  Ray had some money. He tells them he has to spend money.

• 1:56:34Bill Simmons?

  She didn't have no money.

• 1:56:35Speaker 04

  He tell, Ray tells people, though. Ray tells.

• 1:56:38Speaker 05

  He has all the money.

• 1:56:39Speaker 04

  He says, I have to spend, I'm doing what rich guys do. I'm going around spending money. I think the money that she gets in the end of the movie is the way they were able to take the money that was for Ray.

• 1:56:48Speaker 05

  And transfer it to her.

• 1:56:48Speaker 04

  And transfer it to her.

• 1:56:49Bill Simmons?

  But he's already dead. So how did she get down there? How, where did she stay?

• 1:56:55Speaker 05

  He gave her the money because they're in cahoots together.

• 1:56:57Speaker 04

  So I want you to remember, she's running him. So it's very likely-

• 1:57:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, he gave her the money.

• 1:57:01Speaker 04

  That the offshore account that he puts the money in-

• 1:57:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:57:06Speaker 04

  That she is the-

• 1:57:07Speaker 05

  That's their shared slush fund until she takes it all.

• 1:57:09Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:57:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:57:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:57:11Bill Simmons?

  And where do you think they went? Like Barbados or somewhere?

• 1:57:13Speaker 05

  They're somewhere in the Caribbean, right?

• 1:57:15Speaker 04

  Somewhere in the Caribbean.

• 1:57:15Bill Simmons?

  Not easy to get to.

• 1:57:16Speaker 04

  What's the right?

• 1:57:17Bill Simmons?

  Guess what you need to get there? IDs.

• 1:57:19Speaker 05

  Well, guess what? They're all expert sailors.

• 1:57:20Speaker 04

  Alright.

• 1:57:21Speaker 05

  So.

• 1:57:21Speaker 04

  Expert sailors. They actually, probably, they could have sailed there.

• 1:57:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:57:25Speaker 04

  They're in Florida.

• 1:57:26Bill Simmons?

  I don't think she's getting her teeth fixed until a year passes. I think she comes out, she looks like playoff hockey.

• 1:57:32Speaker 04

  Now, I tell you what-

• 1:57:33Bill Simmons?

  Like she looks like, I don't even know, like Marc Messier.

• 1:57:36Speaker 04

  If they'd have done that, that would have been a scary scene. The better version of the movie shows her, and when she smiles, she's got two teeth missing and it's very, it's very frightening.

• 1:57:46Bill Simmons?

  The other one is Ray wasn't supposed to kill Kelly. That's what Matt Dillon said.

• 1:57:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, just supposed to frame her for the-

• 1:57:51Bill Simmons?

  Then he did.

• 1:57:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:57:52Bill Simmons?

  And then Sam said he screwed up the plan. But what was the plan? They weren't gonna-

• 1:57:57Speaker 05

  For which, for which character? They all have different plans.

• 1:58:00Bill Simmons?

  But if, if they weren't supposed to kill Kelly Van Ryan-

• 1:58:02Speaker 04

  She gonna tell.

• 1:58:03Bill Simmons?

  Were they pinning the murders on her because she would have whistled them?

• 1:58:05Speaker 04

  She gonna tell.

• 1:58:06Speaker 05

  That's my biggest one as well. Yeah, because like, I think you have to assume, even though Sam tells Ray, you were just supposed to frame her, Suzie would have killed her. Because the thing we learn is no loose ends, right? No loose ends. So they're not allowing Kelly to just go to jail for Suzie's murder-

• 1:58:24Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:58:25Speaker 05

  And rat them out at any point? No way.

• 1:58:27Speaker 04

  Kelly's, like-

• 1:58:28Speaker 05

  No way.

• 1:58:29Speaker 04

  Kelly's testimony, when she is brought in alive by Ray, is going to be so damning. I've been having sex with him for this amount of time.

• 1:58:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was first in the 10th grade.

• 1:58:41Speaker 04

  Like, yeah, the, it's, it, to leave her alive makes absolutely zero sense. There's no way it all falls apart.

• 1:58:47Bill Simmons?

  So he's probably lying.

• 1:58:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:58:48Bill Simmons?

  Any other nitpicks?

• 1:58:49Speaker 06

  Shouldn't he have picked Kelly?

• 1:58:52Speaker 05

  Well, I think that gets back to the like, this is actually, if you're trying to do like Lit 101 kind of a story about class. So it like makes sense that the two people who always felt like they were like, "You're trash" from other members of Blue Bay would actually be aligned with each other. And then she turns on Sam.

• 1:59:07Speaker 06

  That's fair, but the whole thing was that Sam wanted money. And he was always trying to associate with it. Yeah, but he could have gotten even more.

• 1:59:14Speaker 05

  But that is another unanswerable question is again, just in the, or like part of the why not kill Sandra? It's kill or take her money and then marry Kelly.

• 1:59:20Speaker 06

  He could have married Kelly.

• 1:59:21Speaker 04

  But the thing is, is that none of this is Sam's idea.

• 1:59:25Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:59:25Speaker 04

  Sam is being activated by Suzie. So Sam is-

• 1:59:29Speaker 05

  She's got the photos.

• 1:59:30Speaker 04

  That was a patsy. Sam is a patsy in the whole deal. So Sam actually has no motivation.

• 1:59:35Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:59:35Speaker 04

  His number one motivation in all of this, from this post-credit scene, is self-preservation.

• 1:59:41Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:59:42Speaker 04

  Because she has pictures of him-

• 1:59:44Speaker 05

  Fucking Kelly and doing coke with Kelly.

• 1:59:46Speaker 04

  And that would have ended his career and his reputation around Blue Bay. Not that it was sterling.

• 1:59:51Bill Simmons?

  She even convinces him she has a no nudity clause for the movie. Complete control. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast, they're untouchable. So in 2006, apparently, they came up with a movie called Backstabbers that would have continued Suzie's story.

• 2:00:07Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 2:00:08Bill Simmons?

  And Neve Campbell said it was a pretty cool script. She was growing up, had a kid with somebody, Bill Murray's character, blah, blah, blah. Wow, thanks a generation later. Um, couldn't do it. Never happened. And then McNaughton was like, well, it could have been a streaming series. I actually think that would have been an interesting streaming series.

• 2:00:23Speaker 05

  I think this would be a really good prestige TV, like six to eight episode season.

• 2:00:27Bill Simmons?

  I would be fired up.

• 2:00:28Speaker 06

  I would watch it.

• 2:00:28Bill Simmons?

  If like Hulu was like-

• 2:00:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is a good Hulu show. It's a good Apple show.

• 2:00:33Bill Simmons?

  Don't take this out of the pod, but let me say that part again. I'd be fired up if Netflix-

• 2:00:38Speaker 06

  Ha ha.

• 2:00:41Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 2:00:41Speaker 05

  It would be a great Netflix show.

• 2:00:43Bill Simmons?

  It's sitting there for a streamer.

• 2:00:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:00:45Bill Simmons?

  Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the florist, or the 19 other people who was mentioned in this category?

• 2:00:51Speaker 06

  We can also skip it.

• 2:00:53Speaker 05

  Wayne Jenkins as a dirty cop would be perfect here. Oh, Davy? You want to talk about Davy?

• 2:00:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 2:00:59Speaker 05

  Fantastic.

• 2:01:00Bill Simmons?

  Wayne Jenkins as Kevin Bacon?

• 2:01:04Speaker 04

  As Kevin Bacon?

• 2:01:05Speaker 05

  He could either be the Ray Duquette character, or he could be another dirty cop who's looking into Ray. We could add yet another wrinkle. Because at the end Gloria starts looking into Ray, right? She goes to see Walter and Ruby and she's like, what's up with this guy?

• 2:01:21Speaker 06

  Have we talked about how the other cop with bacon and the woman has just like a hardcore Chicago accent?

• 2:01:27Speaker 06

  He sounds like he's in the bear.

• 2:01:29Bill Simmons?

  Who's the most famous sailor?

• 2:01:32Speaker 04

  Ever?

• 2:01:32Speaker 05

  In the history of the world?

• 2:01:33Bill Simmons?

  Ted Turner? Who's most known for sailing?

• 2:01:36Speaker 04

  Who's most known for sailing?

• 2:01:37Bill Simmons?

  Ted Turner? Let's say Ted Turner.

• 2:01:39Speaker 04

  Ted Turner?

• 2:01:39Bill Simmons?

  That would have been Wayne Jenkins in this. Oh, man, we got our own Ted Turner over here. Look at him, big sailor.

• 2:01:48Bill Simmons?

  Sorry, CR. Uh, just one Oscar who gets it. The score?

• 2:01:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, the score's good.

• 2:01:55Bill Simmons?

  It's like a erotic thriller crossed with like kind of fun.

• 2:01:58Speaker 05

  Course good. What about Bill Murray?

• 2:02:01Speaker 04

  Best supporting?

• 2:02:02Bill Simmons?

  Best supporting?

• 2:02:03Speaker 04

  Real quick, sensei?

• 2:02:04Bill Simmons?

  I have two unanswerable questions, but I'll let you go. I have two good ones.

• 2:02:07Speaker 05

  There are like a hundred, but we've hit so many already.

• 2:02:09Speaker 04

  Okay, so my unanswerable question?

• 2:02:11Speaker 05

  I have a couple.

• 2:02:12Speaker 04

  What sport did Sam Lombardo play at Miami?

• 2:02:16Speaker 05

  I think it's baseball.

• 2:02:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, baseball.

• 2:02:18Speaker 04

  Think it's baseball?

• 2:02:19Speaker 05

  Yeah. There's no way it's football, there's no way it's basketball.

• 2:02:21Bill Simmons?

  Carries himself like a baseball player.

• 2:02:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:02:23Bill Simmons?

  Probably left fielder pitched a little bit.

• 2:02:25Speaker 04

  You don't think?

• 2:02:25Speaker 05

  I think he was like a relief pitcher.

• 2:02:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:27Speaker 04

  You don't think that he could have been, I don't know, like a, like a free safety?

• 2:02:32Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:02:32Bill Simmons?

  No. You don't think so? Not at Miami?

• 2:02:34Speaker 05

  At Miami? How is it not?

• 2:02:36Speaker 04

  He, that's his, so it's baseball.

• 2:02:38Bill Simmons?

  Kicker and that's it for Miami. Or QB.

• 2:02:40Speaker 05

  I think baseball.

• 2:02:41Bill Simmons?

  If it's QB, he would have been known.

• 2:02:43Speaker 04

  Other one.

• 2:02:45Speaker 04

  Did Teresa Van Ryan, is that her name?

• 2:02:48Bill Simmons?

  Sandra Van Ryan. SVR.

• 2:02:50Speaker 04

  Did she actually kill the father?

• 2:02:53Speaker 05

  I, I think that's a-

• 2:02:54Bill Simmons?

  I think that's assumed, yeah.

• 2:02:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think so. Yeah, or something.

• 2:02:58Bill Simmons?

  It's like, oh, they killed themselves.

• 2:03:00Speaker 05

  The big, yeah.

• 2:03:00Bill Simmons?

  No ballistics in 1998.

• 2:03:02Speaker 05

  His death is a big unanswerable question. So something, but, or was it her or was it one of her lovers?

• 2:03:08Speaker 04

  It's Sam Lombardo.

• 2:03:10Speaker 05

  Yeah. Was it one of her lovers?

• 2:03:11Bill Simmons?

  Or can she convince the lover to kill him?

• 2:03:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, something like that for sure.

• 2:03:15Bill Simmons?

  What'd you have, Mel?

• 2:03:16Speaker 05

  Who took the photos of Sam and Kelly fucking and snorting coke? That Suzie shows to Sam?

• 2:03:23Bill Simmons?

  Always a great question for these movies.

• 2:03:25Speaker 05

  Who took those pictures? Was it Suzie herself? Was it Bill Murray? Was it Ken Bowden? In from the jump?

• 2:03:32Speaker 04

  Oh, that's probably who it was.

• 2:03:33Bill Simmons?

  Probably Bill Murray.

• 2:03:35Speaker 05

  Did she have another secret accomplice? Like, does someone out there still know it? Um, on the Bill Murray front, on the Ken Bowden front. We get kind of the Bruce and Alfred at the end of Dark Knight Rises. Cafe scene at the end.

• 2:03:51Bill Simmons?

  I got that one. Did you? I got that one, yeah. Yeah, I like that movie.

• 2:03:55Speaker 05

  Great, great film.

• 2:03:58Speaker 05

  Is the soda of hers that he takes a sip of when she walks away? Also poisoned. No loose ends.

• 2:04:06Speaker 05

  Did Suzie also kill Ken?

• 2:04:09Speaker 04

  I feel like they have.

• 2:04:10Speaker 05

  I think so.

• 2:04:11Speaker 04

  I think they have a bond of people that got shit on in Blue Bay. I think the reason why they're connected is because they're Blue Bay trash.

• 2:04:19Speaker 05

  I, I think that the, like, less my usual feline points to a depth of history there and shared experience. But the, boy, I hope I never make you mad.

• 2:04:28Bill Simmons?

  I have a good one that Craig's really gonna like.

• 2:04:32Bill Simmons?

  So these movies, when somebody escapes. Right?

• 2:04:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:04:36Bill Simmons?

  Trading Places, Shawshank, this movie, whatever it is. They always end up in some resort on a beach. And it's always like, I'm gonna get my money. I'm gonna end up in some weird place. Nobody will know who I am.

• 2:04:48Speaker 05

  The White Lotus.

• 2:04:49Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna have like a cocktail. Right, White Lotus. No, but there's never a ski mountain. They never mix up the locations. Nobody's like, I'm gonna go to Whistler. Nobody's gonna find me. It's always, like, if somebody escapes.

• 2:05:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:05:01Bill Simmons?

  All you have to do is go to, like, Barbados, St. Bart's, Cabo, Hawaii. Just go fucking look for them in like 10 luxury hotels. You're gonna find them quickly.

• 2:05:10Speaker 04

  I mean, again, this is the. If they go to Hawaii, then they're a fucking moron. Because that's in the United States of America.

• 2:05:15Bill Simmons?

  Good point. Cross Y O.

• 2:05:18Speaker 05

  But this is literally the Greg Gary from White Lotus. Like, it's just, I'm in a nice, like, tropical locale.

• 2:05:23Bill Simmons?

  Nobody ever just goes, I'm gonna go cold. Nobody, everyone will think I'm going warm. I'm going the other way. I'm gonna go outside Vancouver. And I'm gonna get an awesome ski cabin.

• 2:05:32Speaker 04

  Someplace in Switzerland.

• 2:05:33Bill Simmons?

  And I'm gonna be dressing like warm clothes the whole time with hats on. Nobody will, I'll grow a beard.

• 2:05:37Speaker 05

  A mug of hot cocoa.

• 2:05:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. Hanging out.

• 2:05:39Bill Simmons?

  It's just, I'd like to see that wrinkle in a movie.

• 2:05:42Speaker 05

  I love that.

• 2:05:43Bill Simmons?

  All right, this is the most important thing I've done in a podcast with the two of you.

• 2:05:47Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 2:05:48Bill Simmons?

  I, I need to really put my foot down on fluffing your own cock before a nude scene when you're a man.

• 2:05:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:05:53Bill Simmons?

  And this is why I think Kevin Bacon, the no nudity clause, I don't believe it.

• 2:05:57Speaker 05

  Interesting.

• 2:05:58Bill Simmons?

  Um, that thing's coming out, it's like got a 45 degree angle.

• 2:06:01Speaker 05

  But he's moving. It seems like it's moving with the movement of him turning to the towel.

• 2:06:05Bill Simmons?

  There's some life in it. He, he puffed it up. He knew it was gonna be on camera. It wasn't like hanging like a dick. It was, this is the Saltburn guy, same thing. Fucking Saltburn guy was in, in the trailer like half fluffing himself for 10 minutes to get ready to run around the Saltburn mansion.

• 2:06:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:21Speaker 06

  Wouldn't you?

• 2:06:23Bill Simmons?

  I'm not against it. I'm just saying, this is the case for, I actually think it is the answer, but I think Kevin Bacon knew his dick was gonna be in the movie because he fluffed himself.

• 2:06:31Speaker 05

  Okay, counterpoint.

• 2:06:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:33Speaker 05

  Even if he doesn't know that it's gonna be in the movie, there are a bunch of people on set who are gonna see his dick.

• 2:06:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. You, you still, a lot of people, they're gonna see that you're, they're gonna see the cock.

• 2:06:43Bill Simmons?

  If you're not gonna see the movie, and if his dick's not gonna be in it.

• 2:06:46Speaker 04

  That's a white word. Like, is, is, is, is, is, it's, I'm not, I can't, like, his dick, even if, everybody sees it, so you want it to look.

• 2:06:57Bill Simmons?

  Okay, okay.

• 2:06:59Speaker 05

  The director, the assistant director, the cinematographer, the other performers, the script coordinators, the gaffer, the writers.

• 2:07:05Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Bacon has a no nudity clause. Why can't he just be in like a, like a little bikini?

• 2:07:11Speaker 05

  That's a better question. To borrow-

• 2:07:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm not gonna see his dick. Why do I have to see his dick?

• 2:07:16Speaker 04

  Or you can just shoot him, uh, you don't need the full body shot.

• 2:07:20Bill Simmons?

  I have no nudity clause. Put my fucking Speedo on.

• 2:07:22Speaker 05

  You guys might have been familiar with this term. I just learned it from the really excellent, still ongoing, uh, heated rivalry press tour that Hudson Williams and Connor Storier are doing. And Hudson Williams referred to, was asked about, you know, filming these scenes and it said, you have a cock sock.

• 2:07:34Speaker 04

  Modesty pouch, yeah.

• 2:07:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, sure, but that's a very polite way of saying it. Cock sock gets, gets right to the point. Could've worn a cock sock.

• 2:07:42Speaker 04

  Could've done that.

• 2:07:42Bill Simmons?

  Cock sock, all kinds of things.

• 2:07:44Speaker 04

  He obviously wanted, he, he knew what was happening. Yeah, he knew.

• 2:07:48Bill Simmons?

  So, I don't think I've ever had Bacon on the podcast.

• 2:07:51Speaker 05

  You're gonna ask him?

• 2:07:51Bill Simmons?

  But he came in and he's sitting right there in Mouse's chair. It's like, we talked about, he thinks we were talking about nudity. But I gotta, I gotta start here, Kevin Bacon.

• 2:07:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:07:58Bill Simmons?

  This whole thing and wild things, where you claimed they, you weren't gonna see, like, come on.

• 2:08:02Speaker 05

  You wanted us to see it, Kevin.

• 2:08:04Bill Simmons?

  Just fucking admit it right now.

• 2:08:04Speaker 04

  I have another piece of evidence to add to this. He went back to the well. Hollow Man.

• 2:08:10Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 2:08:10Bill Simmons?

  Showed it again.

• 2:08:11Speaker 04

  Showed it again in Hollow Man.

• 2:08:13Bill Simmons?

  Proud of his cock.

• 2:08:14Speaker 04

  Hollow Man, it came out of nowhere.

• 2:08:16Bill Simmons?

  Just own it, Kevin Bacon.

• 2:08:17Speaker 04

  Well, he was, he was kinda like, in the like, they had the heat vision of the Hollow Man thing.

• 2:08:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, the infrared, yeah.

• 2:08:22Speaker 04

  The, the cock comes out in Hollow Man.

• 2:08:24Bill Simmons?

  I have another question off this. Neve Campbell, no nudity clause because Party of Five, they didn't want her to be in a thing like this. Why not? The show had shitty ratings. This would've been the greatest thing that ever could've happened to Party of Five, that she was in a movie like this. All it did was make more people wanna watch Party of Five.

• 2:08:42Speaker 04

  You know what? I think about that too. Remember with, if we go back to Angel Heart, remember they kicked Lisa Bonet off-

• 2:08:47Bill Simmons?

  That was different.

• 2:08:48Speaker 04

  Yeah. You know, you know.

• 2:08:52Bill Simmons?

  That was, that was America's family.

• 2:08:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, they were like, get the fuck outta here.

• 2:08:56Bill Simmons?

  The Huxtables were the most important family in America. You couldn't have her riding Mickey Rourke.

• 2:09:01Speaker 04

  Covered in blood.

• 2:09:02Bill Simmons?

  Covered in chicken blood? Come on.

• 2:09:03Speaker 04

  I think would've been, I, I actually wasn't familiar. To me, it felt like Party of Five was some kinda cultural phenomenon. Everybody was talking about, uh, Party of Five.

• 2:09:11Speaker 05

  Let everyone do what they want. Watch Party of Five if you want to.

• 2:09:14Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Bacon, just come clean.

• 2:09:15Speaker 05

  Keep your shirt on if you want to. Show your dick if you want to.

• 2:09:17Bill Simmons?

  Release the cut, like, release the truth, Kevin Bacon.

• 2:09:21Speaker 05

  I mean-

• 2:09:21Speaker 04

  Was Party of Five, how do we talk to an angel? How do I talk to an angel song?

• 2:09:25Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 2:09:25Speaker 04

  What was, what song, what show was that?

• 2:09:27Bill Simmons?

  No, Party, what was the Party of Five?

• 2:09:29Speaker 04

  No, there was a guy that had a song and the song was like, he played a part in the show. And then the song from the show went crazy.

• 2:09:38Bill Simmons?

  That was Jamie Walters.

• 2:09:39Speaker 04

  Jamie Walters.

• 2:09:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:40Speaker 04

  That wasn't Party Five.

• 2:09:40Bill Simmons?

  How do you talk to an angel?

• 2:09:42Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah.

• 2:09:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:09:44Speaker 04

  I haven't thought about that guy.

• 2:09:45Bill Simmons?

  What was the Party Five song? Now that's gonna drive me crazy.

• 2:09:47Speaker 05

  I haven't watched that in so long.

• 2:09:49Bill Simmons?

  We gotta wrap this up. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

• 2:09:53Speaker 05

  Two candidates.

• 2:09:54Bill Simmons?

  Champagne bottle?

• 2:09:54Speaker 04

  Champagne bottle.

• 2:09:55Speaker 05

  Three candidates. I would want Sam's Educator of the Year trophy. I just think that's so funny.

• 2:10:02Speaker 04

  Sam Lombardo.

• 2:10:03Bill Simmons?

  I saw that. It's got the big bowl with the Sam Lombardo on it.

• 2:10:06Speaker 05

  But Educator of the Year is just hysterical.

• 2:10:08Bill Simmons?

  By the way, why was his last name Lombardo? He's not Italian. Where'd that come from?

• 2:10:16Bill Simmons?

  Do you feel like he was an Italian?

• 2:10:17Speaker 05

  Where's your host, Mr. Lombardo?

• 2:10:18Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 2:10:19Bill Simmons?

  Lombardo's an Italian name.

• 2:10:20Speaker 04

  Could that not be Cuban? Maybe it's Cuban.

• 2:10:24Bill Simmons?

  What'd you have, Ben?

• 2:10:25Speaker 05

  Suzy's Two Teeth. The two teeth and the little...

• 2:10:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, just put them right behind you in the...

• 2:10:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:10:30Bill Simmons?

  In the so... Do you have one?

• 2:10:31Speaker 04

  Uh, Suzy's wig.

• 2:10:33Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. That's a good one.

• 2:10:34Speaker 04

  And the obvious one is the champagne bottle.

• 2:10:36Speaker 05

  Champagne, yeah.

• 2:10:37Bill Simmons?

  Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi, word, best or worst life lesson? People aren't always what they appear to be.

• 2:10:42Speaker 05

  Sure. Also, to large accounts and no loose ends.

• 2:10:46Bill Simmons?

  Best of feature choice?

• 2:10:48Speaker 05

  I think Cruel Intentions. They're just so of the moment to me.

• 2:10:52Speaker 04

  I went Sliver. I actually went back and watched Sliver after I watched it. Just to fuck with it.

• 2:10:57Bill Simmons?

  Terrible movie.

• 2:10:58Speaker 04

  Ridiculously bad.

• 2:11:00Bill Simmons?

  Can I tell you something?

• 2:11:01Speaker 04

  Aged terribly as well. Most of these movies are not as bad. When you watch them now, Sliver is nearly unwatchable. I'll say how it happened.

• 2:11:09Bill Simmons?

  Saw it in the theater with Joe House.

• 2:11:12Speaker 05

  Incredible.

• 2:11:14Bill Simmons?

  Came to visit me in Boston for a few days. We're like, let's go see Sharon Stone.

• 2:11:19Speaker 05

  What a beautiful friendship you two have had over the years.

• 2:11:21Bill Simmons?

  The things we've shared. My double feature choice is Masquerade with Rob Lowe.

• 2:11:25Speaker 04

  I've never seen that.

• 2:11:26Bill Simmons?

  Which is the most underrated erotic thriller of the 80s and 90s. Borderline rewatchables, but it's too obscure.

• 2:11:33Speaker 05

  Interesting.

• 2:11:33Bill Simmons?

  Rob Lowe, Kim Cattrall.

• 2:11:36Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:11:36Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:11:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:11:37Bill Simmons?

  Meg Tilly.

• 2:11:38Speaker 04

  I don't fuck...

• 2:11:40Speaker 05

  What year was this?

• 2:11:41Bill Simmons?

  Oh, man. Watched it this weekend.

• 2:11:42Speaker 04

  How did I miss this?

• 2:11:43Bill Simmons?

  It's great. It's sailing and it's like,

• 2:11:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:11:46Bill Simmons?

  It's like Nantucket, Newport, maybe? You know this movie?

• 2:11:50Speaker 05

  Newport's really having a moment right now, thanks to the Gilded Age.

• 2:11:52Bill Simmons?

  This is a thumbs up erotic thriller.

• 2:11:53Speaker 05

  And wedding people.

• 2:11:54Speaker 04

  What year is this?

• 2:11:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna say late eighties.

• 2:11:57Speaker 04

  Eighty-eight? How the fuck did? I never even heard of it. I don't know how I missed this.

• 2:12:01Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, Tubi classic.

• 2:12:03Speaker 05

  Sounds like a future rewatchable.

• 2:12:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Uh, who won the movie? It's either down to Denise Richards or Kevin Bacon's dick.

• 2:12:09Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 2:12:10Bill Simmons?

  I got.

• 2:12:11Speaker 05

  Eligible.

• 2:12:11Speaker 04

  I got Denise Richards.

• 2:12:13Bill Simmons?

  I had Denise Richards as well.

• 2:12:14Speaker 05

  Iconic.

• 2:12:17Speaker 05

  Iconic.

• 2:12:17Speaker 04

  Dana Delaney as well.

• 2:12:20Bill Simmons?

  Dana Delaney.

• 2:12:21Speaker 05

  Like her.

• 2:12:22Bill Simmons?

  Fans watching us tonight. Craig, what do you got?

• 2:12:26Speaker 06

  Just about everything you want in a movie.

• 2:12:30Speaker 06

  Has it all. Checks every box. Every twist, kind of, to be honest, genuinely caught me by surprise. I was like, oh, that's the last twist. And then there was another one. I was like, that's the last twist.

• 2:12:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:12:40Speaker 06

  And then there was another one.

• 2:12:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:12:41Speaker 06

  Uh, just like raw entertainment at its core.

• 2:12:44Speaker 05

  Very raw.

• 2:12:45Speaker 06

  Great Jeep. I don't think we talked about the Jeep that he drives.

• 2:12:48Bill Simmons?

  Great Jeep.

• 2:12:48Speaker 05

  It is a good Jeep.

• 2:12:49Bill Simmons?

  Also, an unbelievable era for Jeeps.

• 2:12:51Speaker 06

  Love a vacation Jeep. Anytime I'm on vacation, you rent a car. I love to rent a Jeep.

• 2:12:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:12:56Speaker 04

  Not very non-practical car.

• 2:12:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, it makes no sense.

• 2:12:59Speaker 04

  Like here, but then like when you're in the islands, it's perfectly practical.

• 2:13:03Speaker 06

  I love famous, talented people doing B-movies. I just think that's the best. You have the most fun. Everyone's not taking it seriously, but they're still talented. I love it.

• 2:13:12Bill Simmons?

  It's the kind of movie, like, Affleck tried to do this with that movie with Ana de Armas.

• 2:13:17Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:13:18Bill Simmons?

  But it's not a fun movie. It's just kind of this dark, weird sex comedy.

• 2:13:22Speaker 04

  Never saw it. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 2:13:23Bill Simmons?

  Not sex comedy, sex drama.

• 2:13:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:13:25Bill Simmons?

  You know the movie I'm talking about?

• 2:13:26Speaker 05

  This movie is not trying to take itself too seriously.

• 2:13:29Bill Simmons?

  Deep water. Like, every time they do this, they go too dark and they try to make it like an exploration or blah, blah, blah, and they forget the fun part.

• 2:13:36Speaker 06

  The guy who did Fatal Attraction, Adrian Lyne.

• 2:13:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:38Speaker 04

  So, the, so like, uh, When you do a film like this, you kind of have to be really okay with the identity of the movie. It can only be so smart.

• 2:13:49Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:13:50Speaker 04

  Because sex is dumb. It's a primal instinct that we have, that there are all types of societal complications around. Up to nine minutes.

• 2:13:58Speaker 05

  Just the first nine minutes.

• 2:13:59Speaker 04

  The first nine minutes.

• 2:14:00Bill Simmons?

  First time, the first time it's bad.

• 2:14:01Speaker 05

  All time flex.

• 2:14:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'll tell it on yourselves.

• 2:14:05Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:14:06Bill Simmons?

  We love the idea of nine and not ten.

• 2:14:09Speaker 05

  And you went out of your way to say first nine minutes, that's all.

• 2:14:12Speaker 04

  And not ten. So it's like, if you, it's very complicated societally, it is. And there's a lot around safety and around appropriate. But like, when you're doing this movie and these characters are like motivated by this thing that you can't really stop, the movie can only be so smart, it can only be so deep. It has to be surface level to a degree, and we're kind of afraid to talk about sex in that way.

• 2:14:35Speaker 06

  Also, some of the, the beauty of these movies is that, I don't know if you want to call it camp, but oftentimes camp is, is authentic. They don't know they're making a campy movie when they're making it, and then it ages into that genre.

• 2:14:46Bill Simmons?

  Fantastic point.

• 2:14:47Speaker 05

  Definitely.

• 2:14:47Speaker 06

  So it's tough now because I think everyone is so aware, the internet, you get an immediate review. It just feels like it's harder to make something like this, what, genuinely? As opposed to trying to make it campy.

• 2:14:59Bill Simmons?

  That was like the Starship Trooper story. That, I don't know if this is apocryphal or not.

• 2:15:04Speaker 05

  Great movie.

• 2:15:04Bill Simmons?

  Casper Van Diem was the only person who didn't know it was a campy movie. And they made him take it completely seriously and he had no idea what was actually happening. I don't know if that was true, but.

• 2:15:14Speaker 05

  Incredible.

• 2:15:14Bill Simmons?

  I always thought like, kind of, people have to buy in. It's like an airplane and Naked Gun and those movies when they hire real actors to be in some of the parts.

• 2:15:22Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 2:15:24Bill Simmons?

  Anyway.

• 2:15:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:15:24Bill Simmons?

  Van Lathan.

• 2:15:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:15:27Bill Simmons?

  First nine minutes, Van. Thank you.

• 2:15:29Speaker 04

  First nine minutes.

• 2:15:31Speaker 05

  Great nickname. Where was pride?

• 2:15:34Bill Simmons?

  Incredible performance by you. Great job. Craig, a pleasure as always.

• 2:15:38Speaker 05

  Never know if it'll be the last podcast we all get to record.

• 2:15:41Speaker 04

  Watch out, watch out, get some mail. I was with him. Let me tell you some bullshit. No, it was the same. I- I- in the hot tub.

• 2:15:49Speaker 05

  You think you're gonna get fact checked? First nine minutes, Van is gonna get fact checked?

• 2:15:53Speaker 06

  Sex with Van, email us, please.

• 2:15:58Bill Simmons?

  Thanks to Gahan Eduardo as well. Don't forget, if you like the rewatchables on Netflix, you can just click us on my list. Every time we do an episode, it'll come up, but also watch us on Spotify as well. Thanks, guys. Good to see you.

• 2:16:10Speaker 04

  Very fun.

• 2:16:22Bill Simmons?

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