E40: A Bestie gets COVID, Delta breakthrough, Billionaire Space Race & more

Show Notes: 0:00 Bestie game show: Who got COVID? How was the experience? 9:30 Delta breakthrough causing concern, potential new approaches, vaccine mandates 24:26 Implications on the economy, will people self-isolate even without government shutdowns? 40:09 Billionaire Space Race: Addressing the negativity, benefits of innovators 47:29 Investments in space, parallels to 1500's maritime shipping, potential for global broadband 1:04:07 Besties go to space, Bezos' cheap shot, Elon's support, Melvin Capital's tough first half of 2021 Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://linktr.ee/calacanis https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg Follow the pod: https://twitter.com/theallinpod https://linktr.ee/allinpodcast Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/TheZachEffect Referenced in the show: WSJ Opinion - What Drives GOP Resistance to Vaccines? https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-drives-gop-resistance-to-vaccines-11623190392 NYT - Some Republican Leaders Speak Up for Vaccines https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/14/world/covid-variant-vaccine-updates Reuters - Living with COVID-19: Israel changes strategy as Delta variant hits https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/living-with-covid-19-israel-changes-strategy-delta-variant-hits-2021-07-13/ Study Finds - Over 200 COVID 'long hauler' symptoms identified, many lasting longer than 6 months https://www.studyfinds.org/200-covid-long-hauler-symptoms/ CNN Opinion - Richard Branson's disappointing space jaunt https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/opinions/richard-branson-jeff-bezos-space-flight-is-a-waste-thomas/index.html Truth Out Op-ed - Billionaire Tax Cheat Travels to Space for a Few Minutes https://truthout.org/articles/billionaire-tax-cheat-travels-to-space-for-a-few-minutes Fox News - Richard Branson says critics are 'not fully educated' on benefits of space travel https://www.foxnews.com/media/richard-branson-critics-not-fully-educated-space-travel CNBC - Investment in space companies put at record $8.9 billion in 2020 despite Covid https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/25/investing-in-space-companies-hits-record-8point9-billion-in-2020-report.html Bloomberg - Melvin Struggles to Shake Reddit Attack With 46% Loss So Far https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-08/melvin-can-t-shake-reddit-attack-with-46-loss-in-first-half Books: Andy Weir - Project Hail Mary https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135202 Jeremy England - Every Life Is on Fire https://www.amazon.com/Every-Life-Fire-Thermodynamics-Explains/dp/1541699017 Tweets: https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1415287991954640901 https://twitter.com/micsolana/status/1415122089720254467 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1414157827145404419 https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1413521627116032001 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1386825367948644352

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jason Calacanis?

  This week, we're gonna play our favorite new game show, Guess Who's Got Covid? Yes, that's right. Somebody on the pod.

• 0:08Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Somebody's got Covid.

• 0:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's not the me.

• 0:14Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, you're ruining the game, Jamal.

• 0:16Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh, sorry.

• 0:17Jason Calacanis?

  So here's the game. Person who got Covid.

• 0:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Have they been vaccinated or not?

• 0:22Jason Calacanis?

  Okay, all four of us have been vaccinated. We covered that on our previous pod. So everybody's been vaccinated.

• 0:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Double vaxxed.

• 0:27Jason Calacanis?

  Everybody's been double vaxxed.

• 0:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Did we all get Pfizer?

• 0:30Jason Calacanis?

  I was Pfizer.

• 0:31David Sacks?

  Pfizer.

• 0:31Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Pfizer.

• 0:32David Sacks?

  Pfizer.

• 0:32Jason Calacanis?

  Okay, so Pfizer across the board. We got quads. And?

• 0:38Jason Calacanis?

  This is a breakthrough infection.

• 0:41Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Has anybody? Taken a Z-Pak after a night of partying?

• 0:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I have.

• 0:50Jason Calacanis?

  Okay, the pod lasted 39 episodes. I'm done.

• 0:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  That was good. That was good.

• 0:54Jason Calacanis?

  Okay, so number one, clue number one, this bestie got a breakthrough infection outdoors at a restaurant. Number one, got it outdoors. Number two, got it from somebody who was also vaccinated. Number three, this bestie does not fly commercial. And? He's not a fan of being interrupted. And he is not an evangelical.

• 1:19Chamath Palihapitiya?

  David Sacks.

• 1:20Jason Calacanis?

  The breakthrough vaccination is David Sacks.

• 1:25David Sacks?

  I'm glad that my getting a breakthrough case of Covid is comedy fodder for you somehow.

• 1:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Saxy Poop, break it down.

• 1:51David Friedberg?

  Walk us through the, like, what happened and then how you felt.

• 1:54David Sacks?

  Yeah, okay, so what happened is-

• 1:56Jason Calacanis?

  And we're glad you're safe, obviously, obviously. We wouldn't be joking-

• 1:59David Friedberg?

  You're still losing weight.

• 2:00Jason Calacanis?

  You lost five pounds, so.

• 2:01David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 2:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You may want to read some of the beautiful text messages we sent you when we found out this week.

• 2:07Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 2:10David Sacks?

  Yeah, Jason, what did you say, Jason? You said, uh?

• 2:14Jason Calacanis?

  I was just like, wow, think about who we could recruit for the fourth spot. We get Keith or boy, we get Peter Thiel in here.

• 2:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I said that I really, really hope you didn't die. But if you did, I would love to have your plane as a support plane for my plane.

• 2:27Jason Calacanis?

  And I was thinking, you know what? I might be pro San Francisco. If you die, I could, I might want to.

• 2:32David Sacks?

  All right, well, sorry, guys, I'm gonna live. Sorry, Jason, I'm gonna live. Here's basically what happened, okay? Is, um, so Tuesday of last week, I had dinner with a few friends and then my friend.

• 2:45Jason Calacanis?

  Just where outdoors?

• 2:47David Sacks?

  Yeah, I'll tell you exactly where we were. We were at Masahisa in LA, which had this.

• 2:51Jason Calacanis?

  In the outdoor parking lot?

• 2:52David Sacks?

  Yeah, yes, the outdoor parking lot area, which is a covered outdoor area. So, you know, these like covered areas are effectively inside because it traps the air in there. But in any event, we had dinner there. Um, the next day he woke up with a fever and sore throat. He went and got a COVID test. He tested positive. He is also double vaxxed with Pfizer. Okay. So, and, and I reported this to you guys last week on last week's show. So I went out right away on Wednesday, got a COVID test, was negative. I repeated the test on Friday, was negative. And then Sunday rolls around and I wake up and I got a fever. I don't really have a sore throat, but I've got kind of a, I'd say an occasional dry cough. And I've got, and I've got some sinus congestion.

• 3:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  David mild fever or like, like 99.9 or like 102.1?

• 3:42David Sacks?

  It topped off at about 99.9.

• 3:45Jason Calacanis?

  It's barely a fever. Yeah.

• 3:47David Sacks?

  Yeah, barely fever. But I mean, it was definitely there and I took Tylenol and it brought it down to the low 99s. And, uh, so any event, first thing Monday morning, I went and got the COVID test and sure enough, I had COVID. Uh, they can't confirm that it's Delta variant, but they think it is because that's what's like exploding in LA right now. And so, yeah, I mean, look, I mean, the, the good news is it's very mild. I mean, I'm, it's now Thursday and I feel like I'm like 99% recovered. I don't have a fever anymore.

• 4:17Jason Calacanis?

  So this is, are you 10 days in now? This?

• 4:19David Sacks?

  No, no, no, no. This is the, you know, I, I came down with symptoms on, uh, this past Sunday and it's now Thursday. So I am.

• 4:27Jason Calacanis?

  And when did, were you exposed?

• 4:28David Sacks?

  Tuesday night. So I was exposed. Yes, you're right. It's about 10 days from initial exposure.

• 4:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You're convinced that was the only way you could have gotten it, right?

• 4:35David Sacks?

  Yeah, because somebody else at the dinner got, has symptoms now too.

• 4:39Jason Calacanis?

  Ah, so it was a super spreader at Matsuhisa.

• 4:42David Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah, basically, but it shows you how virulent this new Delta variant is. I mean, you've got, there were four people out that night, plus the person who, who had it and two out of the four basically got it. And we were all vaccinated, including the person who had it. And of course, he didn't know he had it. He didn't have any symptoms till the next day. So, um, and you know, I got it. I got it five days after exposure. It's that five days is like clockwork, you know?

• 5:14Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Did you, um, did you have like a pulse ox? Did you measure any of these other things? Did any of that stuff change at all?

• 5:19David Sacks?

  Yeah, I mean, I've, I have the pulse ox meter and it's been around 95%. So it is down slightly.

• 5:25Jason Calacanis?

  You should be like 98, right?

• 5:26David Sacks?

  Yeah, it is down slightly. It is down slightly.

• 5:29Jason Calacanis?

  And if you go to 92 or 93, they say go to the emergency room, I think?

• 5:33Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And, and did you self-isolate from your family?

• 5:37David Sacks?

  Yeah, I did, but we were lulled a little bit into a, a place of overconfidence.

• 5:42Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 5:43David Sacks?

  Well, I remember I got, I got COVID test on Wednesday and then Friday and they're both negative. I thought we're through it. So I was at home and, um, and then, and then so my 11 year old got it. Even though I was isolating, this thing is, I mean, this thing is so contagious. So, you know, what I've read is that Delta variant is 60% more transmissible than the UK variant, which was the Alpha variant. The Alpha variant was 60% more transmissible than original COVID. So you're looking at a transmissibility, you multiply those together of two and a half times the original. And the original COVID had an R naught of two to three. So you multiply two to three by two and a half times and you're looking at five to eight. And, you know, at the

• 6:23Jason Calacanis?

  Explain to the audience what that means in terms of reality.

• 6:26David Sacks?

  It means the R naught is, uh, how many people does the average infected person transmit before they know they have it and can fully self-isolate? And so you're going from, uh, the original COVID was two to three, Delta variant might be like eight. We're getting up into like smallpox territory with this thing. And it's all the more transmissible because, um, You know, vaccinated people can get it. You know, the the Israel data that we talked about on the show last week was 64% effectiveness that Israel reported that the effectiveness of Pfizer had gone from like 95% to 64% in terms of preventing infection. So you have maybe a third of vaccinated

• 7:08David Sacks?

  people can get it and then they can spread it without even knowing they have it. So I think we're at the point now where if you're not vaccinated, you're gonna get you're gonna get the Delta variant. We're seeing now cases explode, you know, all over the country. Even in LA County, they've now had a the five day average of cases has jumped 500% in one month. So pretty much, and Jason, you've tweeted this, if you are not vaccinated, you are choosing to get the Delta variant at this point. I mean, this thing is extremely transmissible.

• 7:39Chamath Palihapitiya?

  That's what there was a great tweet by Scott Adams, the guy who the cartoonist who I wouldn't

• 7:44Jason Calacanis?

  Who listens to the pod, by the way.

• 7:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Who does listen to the pod. He had a he had a really great quote. He's like,

• 7:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  today is either Wednesday.

• 7:55Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 7:56Chamath Palihapitiya?

  For those that are vaccinated or yet another day where the unvaccinated amongst you are likely to get COVID, something like that, right? Was that the tweet?

• 8:06Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, it was basically today's Wednesday for people who are vaccinated, or it is the day you're gonna get, you know, the the virus.

• 8:13David Sacks?

  Yeah, we gotta stop stop messing around with this thing. Now, here's some here's some good news, actually, is is so on the Wednesday when we found out that my friend had tested positive, but again, I was still negative. I had no symptoms. I had nothing. I told my wife, she had gotten one shot. She hadn't gotten the second shot. And we were on the fence about whether my 13 year old should get the vaccine. They both raced out that day, got vaccinated.

• 8:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Of course.

• 8:37David Sacks?

  He did not get the virus. So they had basically call it three or four days of the of the vaccine to trigger an immune response in their system, and it protected them. They did not get sick.

• 8:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And and David, did you take anything else like prednisone? You took nothing, no steroid?

• 8:52David Sacks?

  No, nothing. The only stuff I so my friend did take, he did get prescribed prednisone. My doctor thought that was Unnecessary or a bad idea for me. All I took, okay, was Tylenol to control the fever and I took Flonase to reduce the sinus congestion. Look, I mean, I don't want to overstate this. It was a very mild cold for me. And that is why I think everybody should run out and get vaccinated.

• 9:15Jason Calacanis?

  What did you pair it with? Like a Pappy Van Winkle? Or did you go with a Screaming Eagle? What did you pair your group with? Uh, Friedberg?

• 9:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Also, the worst part is Matsuhisa has such a shit wine list. You probably drank this like random swill. That's probably why.

• 9:27Jason Calacanis?

  Drinking some like, uh, McGarry Saki in all likelihood. Friedberg, last week I was, uh, asking you, or maybe it was two weeks ago. I was considering getting the Moderna because I was like, I think getting two of these things will boost you into the high 90s. You said I was crazy. Uh, has your position changed on that?

• 9:45David Friedberg?

  Yes.

• 9:46Jason Calacanis?

  Okay, explain. Because this is the one time I'm ever going to be right about science. A week before you.

• 9:52David Friedberg?

  So I, I think that, I think the data up to that point didn't necessarily, um, kind of validate that additional level of action. But now it does. And I think new data is coming out. So I saw, uh, an executive from a pharmaceutical company a few days ago.

• 10:08Jason Calacanis?

  Okay.

• 10:09David Friedberg?

  Who broke down some statistics that they looked at in Israel. And what they were identifying was that of the newly infected cases in Israel, of people that are vaccinated, uh, nearly two thirds of those people were vaccinated in January. Um, about 30% were vaccinated in February and less than 10% were vaccinated in March. And I'm just approximating and I'm, and I'm, I'm, I'm just kind of transcribing, you know, uh, from, from kind of what I remember him saying. And so he said, you know, the, the more recent vaccinations, we're not seeing breakthrough cases, breakthrough infections. So the, the more recently you're vaccinated, um, the, the less likely you are to

• 10:51David Friedberg?

  have this. And then I, I met with a, a pretty well-known virologist a few days ago as well. Who highlighted for me that we are seeing antibody titers decline over time in people. But there's other studies that are showing, which means that the antibodies against COVID in your blood after you get the vaccine slowly go down over time. So we're seeing that. We knew that, right? We knew that to some extent, but there was another study that showed that memory B cells, B cells are the immune cells that make antibodies and they remember the antibodies to make. And they were worried, are we losing those B cells in the human body? And another study found actually they're in your lymph nodes. So they, they, they went in, they pulled them out and they identified, look, that these B cells are persistent. We are

• 11:33David Friedberg?

  having a persistent immune memory to COVID when we get exposed to the vaccine or the virus. And, um, and so, you know, those two data points, both of them kind of said, I think we're going to need to do a booster very soon for everyone and we're going to need to get a third shot.

• 11:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The tale, Friedberg, seems like it's like six months.

• 11:52David Friedberg?

  Yeah, it sounds like he was saying that you're going to see an efficacy drop to that kind of two thirds level after about six months of your, after getting your, your vaccine. And, you know, he said, look, this Delta variant is virulent, but you know, the more pressing kind of point isn't that it's this variant that's breaking through. It's that the efficiency of these vaccines at this point looks like it's such that we're going to need to do boosters. Now Pfizer went to the White House this week with some of this data and they presented it to the White House and the White House said, uh, if you guys follow the news, I, I, I'm hearing this, I'm, I'm repeating what I read in news reports at this point. But what they said was, uh, you know, we're not ready to kind

• 12:34David Friedberg?

  of commit to doing booster shots. For a couple of reasons. One is there are a lot of people out there that haven't had their first shots. Um, and, uh, we're seeing the people that are having these breakthrough infections almost universally, not always, but very, very large majority having very mild symptoms and not getting hospitalized and the, and the death rate is still very, very low. In other words, the vaccine did its job. The vaccine didn't, didn't prevent, you know, an infection, meaning that the virus starts replicating in, in a way that's uncontrolled in your body, but that your immune system had enough of a defense. To keep it from causing severe disease in your body.

• 13:10Jason Calacanis?

  Ninety nine percent of the people going to the hospital are unvaccinated, right?

• 13:15David Friedberg?

  Exactly. And so we're seeing that that great success still with the vaccine. But they are seeing, and there are now studies that, you know, I think, reference to your earlier point that, you know, if you put a different RNA strain, um, RNA sequence into your body, which Moderna and Pfizer have slightly different, you know, sequences, you end up creating different antibodies and having more diversity of antibodies uh, can uh, kind of provide greater immunity. So it's almost certain we're going to get boosters and that we're going to end up seeing them hit the market next month in September. Yeah.

• 13:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Is the, is the booster different than the original? So for example, if I get a Pfizer booster, am, am I only basically getting still an expression of that RNA strand that I'm supposed to basically, like, is it the same formulation, the same dosage?

• 14:02David Friedberg?

  So, so both of those options are still up in the air. And so we may still get the same vaccines that we were getting before. You could go get a Moderna shot. You could go get another Pfizer shot of the exact same RNA sequence that you got before. Or they may introduce some new ones. And so all the pharma companies are proposing both approaches. And they're pursuing both paths right now, and we'll see where we end up.

• 14:24Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And what about swapping between an RNA approach and a traditional vaccine approach? So getting J and J plus Moderna or Pfizer versus like, there's a lot of A B testing we need to do to figure out what is the most efficacious and useful.

• 14:36Jason Calacanis?

  Cocktail. This is exactly like the, this is, reminds me exactly of HIV where it took 10 years for them to figure out what cocktail actually worked the best.

• 14:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And now, look, HIV is, I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of like, nothing. It's really not that, not that bad. The way that we probably, for those of us in our 40s, have it emblazoned in our mind is how bad it is versus how bad it is.

• 14:55Jason Calacanis?

  It was a death sentence.

• 14:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It wa, it seemed like a death sentence and today it's kind of more, it's more manageable than frankly.

• 15:01David Friedberg?

  It's a chronic disease now. That's manageable.

• 15:03Jason Calacanis?

  It's like having diabetes or something, yeah.

• 15:05Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I have another crazy statement here, which is that if you take the, the case fatality rate of COVID. And now you think about the fact that there's going to be, call it 60% of America that's vaccinated. And then every six months we'll be getting boosters. And then you have the Petri dish on the other side of the 40%. Where you'll just be ripping through variant after variant after variant. Eventually, it stands to reason that if 40% of Americans remain unvaccinated two or three years from now. The odds that there will be a strain that is the killer strain. That does meaningful damage to those people, I think is basically 100%.

• 15:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And if you think about a case fatality rate that's meaningfully high, what you're effectively going to do is start to call these people from the earth. And that is a crazy idea. But that's what folks who choose to not get vaccinated are setting themselves up for.

• 16:02Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, it's the quintessential, you know, uh.

• 16:06Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Is that just not probabilities? Like, am I getting something wrong here? Probabilistically, isn't that?

• 16:10David Sacks?

  This is what I'm concerned about, and it's not just Americans not getting vaccinated, it's the rest of the world. I mean, even if we got to extraordinarily extraordinarily high vaccination rates in the US, there's going to be large. You know, numbers of people outside the US who never get vaccinated will continue to be a Petri dish. Uh, to, to give you, to, you know, comparison, the common cold has 1,800 variants. That's why we can't get vaccinated. So, you know, we're on the Delta variant right now. I think they actually have numbered variants up to Lambda. We're going to run out of the letters of the alphabet really soon. You know, how long will it be until there, there are these killer variants that, that act, I mean, look, I mean. That could punch through, that can punch through the, the vaccines. It's pretty scary, actually.

• 16:51David Sacks?

  And I would say that, um, this is like quite a come down off where we were just two weeks ago. You know, where we thought the Pfizer vaccine was still 95% effective. Now it's 64% effective. I mean, look, I, I, I do want to like underscore that the, the vaccine worked in the sense. That what I got was super mild. I mean, it was really just like getting a cold. I mean, I didn't need to take anything more serious than Tylenol. But, uh, but it does show that the virus is mutating really fast. It's highly transmissible. And, uh, I'm not sure we're totally done with this thing.

• 17:25Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You still have it. You still have it, right?

• 17:26David Sacks?

  I still have it, yeah.

• 17:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah. So when will you get tested to figure out when you don't have it?

• 17:30David Sacks?

  I'll probably go in tomorrow. You know, because it feels, it feels to me like I'm about 98% better.

• 17:36Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Freebrooke, is there, is there any data about the pattern of people who are vaccinated getting this thing? Like, is there, remember how like, you know, there was early data that showed, you know, women had a different immune response than men and like people who were, what was it? O positive or, you know, a certain blood type effectively had inborn immunity.

• 17:56David Friedberg?

  I haven't heard or read anything like that. And so this is still an emerging issue, I think. You know,

• 18:03David Sacks?

  Yeah. And by the way, I was vaccinated a few months ago, guys, like, I mean, I am like

• 18:07Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah, you're not six months in, you're three.

• 18:09David Friedberg?

  When was your second shot?

• 18:12David Sacks?

  Basically, like a few months ago.

• 18:14David Friedberg?

  Yeah, it's

• 18:15Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Mine was in March.

• 18:16David Friedberg?

  Yeah. One thing I think it's worth highlighting, just to reinforce the vaccine importance. You know, the virologist, the infectious disease guy I met with was telling me that, you know, one way to think about this is the more opportunity the virus has to replicate, the more opportunity it has to evolve. And so when you're vaccinated and you have a mild case and your body recovers in a few days, just to give you guys a sense, the difference when someone that's not vaccinated has COVID and they've measured the viral load in the nodes from day one, when they start having their infectious kind of presentation to day four, which is when they peak, the viral load is 10 to the A higher. Okay. That's like 100 million times higher.

• 18:59David Friedberg?

  And so that's 100 million times more viruses that are being produced on day four than were being produced on day one, when you were already showing symptoms. So every time a virus is being produced and is replicating within your body, it's getting a chance to mutate. The important point he emphasized was what matters most is we get the most number of people on planet earth vaccinated as fast as possible, because the faster you can get more people vaccinated, the fewer opportunities you give the virus to replicate and find itself a mutational path that can ultimately break through all these vaccines and, and, and cause real severe loss of life. And so the, you know, the presentation that Sacks kind of described is is encouraging.

• 19:37Jason Calacanis?

  In the sense that it likely means that the virus did not create that there wasn't that much of a viral load or a huge viral load relative to what there would have been if he wasn't vaccinated. And so even though he did have an infection, you know, the virus didn't get as much of a chance to spread to other people. It didn't get

• 19:53David Sacks?

  But it did, but it did because my friend who I got it from after one having dinner one night, he was double vaxxed with Pfizer. And it might, you know, my 11 year old daughter got it.

• 20:05Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 20:06David Sacks?

  It's for her. Again, it's just like a cold.

• 20:08Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 20:08David Sacks?

  But so this thing is highly transmissible. And

• 20:12Jason Calacanis?

  What is it?

• 20:13David Sacks?

  It changes, it changes the equation, I think, on some policy questions. So

• 20:17Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Yeah. What I was gonna ask you, what does it mean for the fall? What now? What?

• 20:21David Sacks?

  So two weeks ago, I thought that because I was vaccinated, I didn't need to care whether other people were vaccinated because the, you know, up until that point, the data was you were 95% plus, you know, effectiveness. So why care if other people get vaccinated? Now we can say for sure that that unvaccinated people can or vaccinated people even can get other people can get you sick, even if you are vaccinated. So I think it absolutely changes the equation on. So for example, colleges were requiring students to get vaccinated to return in the fall. Like before, I didn't think that necessarily made a lot of sense because if you wanted to protect yourself, you just get vaccinated. But now it makes sense, right? Because the college needs

• 21:04David Sacks?

  to get to herd immunity to protect everybody against, you know, potentially

• 21:09Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 21:09David Sacks?

  Delta variant, right? So I do think it changes the equation quite a bit. And I think we need to make a big push here to get everyone vaccinated.

• 21:17Jason Calacanis?

  Then in fact, Saks for vax passports, which as a, you know, libertarian, I think, is I think part of your political, I think everybody on this call is kind of got a little libertarian, like you got to make your own choices here. But does it change your thinking about that? I employers, colleges, city state workers, teachers are either get vaxxed or don't come back to the office and you're fired?

• 21:45David Sacks?

  Well, I'll tell you, I don't like the idea of government having the power to stick a needle in your arm, but I do think that employers, workplaces, schools, I think it's very reasonable for them to say, if you want to come back to the workplace, you have to get vaccinated because your unvaccinated status creates a risk. It creates an externality for everybody else.

• 22:07Jason Calacanis?

  Should they be able to fire you if you're a teacher? Should they be able to fire you? If you're a bus driver, if you're a pilot?

• 22:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Absolutely.

• 22:13Jason Calacanis?

  So, here's the craziness. This is a self-inflicted wound. We are down to only 700,000 vaccines being given a day. We peaked. We had the ability to do 5 million shots a day at the peak. Back in April, we hit over 5 million shots in one day in the United States, and that's a country where, you know, whatever, 270 million adults, you know, were able to get it. In other words, 2% of the adult population in a single day could have gotten it. Now we're down to 700. We have over a billion vaccines sitting on shelves. 80% of Democrats have received one shot compared to 49% of Republicans. 27% of Republicans say that they won't get vaccinated under any circumstances compared to 3% of Democrats

• 22:56Jason Calacanis?

  answering that question the same way. And an additional 9% will only do so if required. Again, 3% of Democrats said they would only do so if required. So that's 36% are opting out forever.

• 23:07Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I get it, but it's because we allowed it to become a position. Meaning, it's not like anybody has a position on breathing. Breathing is not a political position, right? It's not like I choose to not breathe, or drinking water, or trying to, you know, like eating three meals a day if you can. We have allowed the most basic of issues, in this case, you know, collective public health to be politicized in a way, and that is entirely the government's fault.

• 23:34David Sacks?

  It's the government's fault, and it's the media's fault.

• 23:37Jason Calacanis?

  And the media.

• 23:38Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Well, the media has exacerbated it so that they can have power.

• 23:42David Sacks?

  People on the conservative side of the spectrum have learned to distrust the media and big corporations because, and government, because they've been lied to so often, most recently with the whole...

• 23:51Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Rightfully so.

• 23:52David Sacks?

  Yeah, right. Most recently with like the lab leak theory. And so, you know, there's this suspicion on the right, like, what aren't they telling us? You know? Now, look, I think we got to get over this. I think, you know, we need to get everyone vaccinated for all the reasons that Friedberg said. Or, look, everyone's going to get Delta variant. I mean, maybe this is the good news, is that we can rapidly get to herd immunity by everyone getting Delta variant.

• 24:13David Friedberg?

  Well, that's the inevitable outcome for any infectious disease, right? Highly infectious diseases. Either you can vaccinate or everyone's gonna get it and it's gonna, you know.

• 24:21David Sacks?

  I mean, kind of Delta variant maybe than whatever the, you know.

• 24:24Jason Calacanis?

  The more dangerous deadly one is, yeah.

• 24:26David Friedberg?

  Let me just highlight what I'm most concerned about. I am most concerned about what's happening with SARS. Just anecdotally speaking, I'm not gonna speak to the, I'll speak to one statistic, but like anecdotally speaking, I'm hearing this happening more frequently. I don't know about you guys, other friends, other people you know, but a lot of other people I'm hearing about that are double vaxxed that are now getting COVID. So as that starts to happen, the implications for the economy, I think, are pretty significant. Because I think people, whether there's a policy change or not, people are gonna get scared again. And people, if we're not kind of enforcing economic lockdown, people will go into social lockdown. And we're gonna revisit, you know, more of the behavior we saw over the past year,

• 25:10David Friedberg?

  where people are gonna be nervous to travel, people are gonna be nervous to fly, people are gonna be nervous to go to restaurants. And, you know, the downstream consequences of everyone kind of locking up again, even if the government doesn't enforce lockups, could be pretty catastrophic.

• 25:23Jason Calacanis?

  Are you feeling that way yourself, Friedberg? In other words?

• 25:26David Friedberg?

  Am I gonna lock myself up?

• 25:28Jason Calacanis?

  Are you gonna go to dinner? Are you gonna go to travel to Italy or to, you know, Japan? Or, you know, would you go to Disneyland with your kids? How is it affecting you, your personal behavior, being a man of science?

• 25:40David Friedberg?

  So my personal circumstances are a little different right now, not to get into it. Just with my, you know, my wife's pregnant and we're moving houses. And so we've got a bunch of reasons why we're not traveling and exposing ourselves unnecessarily right now.

• 25:57David Friedberg?

  But I would say that at this point, you know, if all other things being equal, would I go to Disneyland with my kids? I would probably wait right now, six to 12 weeks to see what happens here. Right. And so I think like if I'm feeling that way now, I think a lot of people are going to be feeling that way in the next four weeks as they hear about more friends getting COVID. Now, you know, the good news is the hospitals and so I am most concerned, we are in a very, very, very, very delicate economic recovery right now. And, you know, we have put out so much money to stimulate this economy. Everyone is so walking on like the razor's edge to keep things, you know, growing. We were afraid of inflation lumber prices today, by the way, are lower than they were when this whole kind of inflationary thing started and everyone was freaking out about it.

• 26:41David Friedberg?

  So, um, you know, lumber prices are lower than they were at the start of the year, which is, you know, like a lot of this kind of inflation risk has kind of come out of the equation already. So the markets have taken that pricing out. And now we're going to be in a circumstance where people might cancel their travel, people might cancel their, their restaurants, people might stop going to the office again, stop, you know, getting in the car, et cetera, et cetera. So I am most concerned about like the psychological effects of, of what we're seeing with the, these breakthrough infections, the, the frequency of them. Now, if you look at the Israel data, so Israel had zero deaths for two weeks. They're now averaging about one death a day. Um, and despite this, you know, huge increment, they're getting about, I think 500 breakthrough infections a day right now. So that is good statistical news, right? Statistically, these breakthrough infections are not fatal.

• 27:26David Friedberg?

  They're not causing hospitalizations. They're, they're, you know, if you kind of did the math going back a year and said these are the actual statistics of COVID, people would be like, okay, no big deal. Let's move on. It's a, it's a, it's a tough kind of virus. But because of the circumstances where we, we, we are kind of under these, these feelings that this is a fatal disease and could cause fatalities, um, those statistics don't matter. The fear is what matters and people are going to start to behave quite differently. I think in the next few weeks.

• 27:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I have a slightly different point of view here, but, um, I think Friedberg, you're, you're, I think you're right in some respects. But I don't think it's going to come from people. I don't think people, I think people are exhausted and they want to go back to life as normal.

• 28:07Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 28:08Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And I think this summer was a window into some amount of normalcy for a lot of us. And I don't think we really do want to go back. Um, and so I think what's, what's really going to happen is there's going to be essentially some form of class warfare. And instead of rich versus poor and left versus right, it's sort of between people who believe in science and then the, you know, ideologically dogmatic who refuse to get it. And that's going to play itself out economically. I agree with you. There's going to be meaningful forms of economic discrimination against people who, um, are unnecessarily compounding risk for the rest of us, who want to deal with it ideally, touch wood, as a common cold, like David said, and move the fuck on.

• 28:53Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And if we are prevented from doing so, because economic policy and healthcare policy has to constantly get re-rated for a cohort of people who could protect themselves and everybody else but chooses not to, there is going to be a real pushback on that. The second thing that I think is going to happen is politicians proved that if you give them a window to cease power, they will do it. And I think what's really going to happen in the fall is if there's even a small modicum of risk, which there will be, as we just talked about.

• 29:26Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, it exists now. Yeah.

• 29:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I think it's the politicians that are going to want to jump all over this and say, okay, guys, you know, lockdown's here, you can't do this, you can't do that.

• 29:35Jason Calacanis?

  So literally Gavin Newsom just did the big grand reopening, California's back. You could see him locking it back up in September.

• 29:40Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh, that's the best way to, it's the best way to snuff out any chance of the recall going against them is that even if you were angry, you're not going to be allowed to, basically, it'll be a massive form of voter suppression.

• 29:50David Sacks?

  Well, I think that, that would backfire on him. That would backfire pretty bad.

• 29:54Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You saw the flip flopping that he already did actually on schools where the, the government of California basically said, hey, you know, we're going to mandate a mask policy in the fall. And then Newsom came out because people freaked out and said, uh, actually, no, each local municipality can figure it out based on, you know, what it, what it means for them. The point is, guys, um, Freebrooke is right. These things aren't going away. We have a cohort of people who will continue to allow this thing to become worse than it has to be. And I think that there will be economic repercussions and discrimination against those people for that. And I think economically, we are going to take a step back because politicians will try to slow the economy down again.

• 30:39Jason Calacanis?

  And there is definitely from the right, not to get political here, but they've been pretty silent about encouraging people to get vaccinated. And, you know, at CPAC and other places, people were cheering the anti-vax movement. Mitt Romney came out, "We don't control conservative media figures, so far as I know. At least, I don't." That being said, I think it's an enormous error for anyone to suggest that we shouldn't be taking vaccines. Look, the politization of vaccination is an outrage and frankly, moronic. Mitch McConnell came out and says, "As a polio victim myself, when I was young, I've studied that disease. It took 70 years, 70 years to come up with two vaccines that finally ended the polio threat. As a result of Operation Warp Speed, we have not one, not two, but

• 31:21Jason Calacanis?

  three highly effective vaccines. So I'm perplexed by the difficulty we're having finishing the job."

• 31:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  This is where you can expect the politically correct companies to act first because there the woke mob will force some action on this issue. Whether you like it or not, but this is, this is where the next petition will come from Apple, where the 2,000 or 3,000 employees who are vaccinated, etc., who have people with, you know, people in their households with, who are immunologically suppressed. And they're going to say, "Hey, guys, this is crazy."

• 31:52David Sacks?

  Well, that petition might be the first Apple petition that would make sense because those employees are directly impacted by other employees who come to the workplace unvaccinated, unlike, you know, the issues around Israel or Antonio's book, whatever, that they shouldn't have taken a position on.

• 32:06Jason Calacanis?

  Wait a second, you're saying Antonio's book wouldn't make them feel safe and getting COVID would make them unsafe?

• 32:11David Sacks?

  Yeah, actually, actually, yes. Yes. COVID in the workplace is a real safety issue, not, you know, not whether somebody wrote a book five years ago. So, so I think they do, I think employees do have a right to say to their employers, "Listen, are we going to be a vaccinated workplace or not?" Because it does impact their risk. But, but Jason, to your question about... Should people change their behavior in light of this news? Okay, in light of the fact that we now are learning about some reduced effectiveness to the vaccines? Here's what I would tell people sitting where I am. This is not a big deal. I mean, for me, okay, it was not a big deal. It was like a mild cold. I am not gonna change my, I'm gonna go back to normal, like my pre-COVID behavior.

• 32:55David Sacks?

  Uh, and I would tell you like, if you're double vaxxed, I don't think you need to be that afraid of this because, you know, my doctor said they are seeing a bunch of these breakthrough cases, but they're all very mild. It really is like getting a cold.

• 33:06Jason Calacanis?

  I'm not changing my behaviors. I made my, I made my decision. My risk assessment is if I get it, um, then I'm doubly protected, uh, and I'm not gonna wind up in the hospital. I'm gonna focus all my energy on riding my bike and, and taking my kids out and having a good time. I'm not going back in lockdown.

• 33:21David Sacks?

  So I think that's right for you, but, but here, here's where it gets a little bit complicated is my parents, who are in their seventies, and one of them has an immune condition, asks what they should do. And I said, listen, if I were you guys, I would not be going to public places. I'd be masking up. They're asking me if they should go on a trip and I said, no. I would actually, if I were you, I would lock down until this blows over because they're at elevated risk. And so, yeah, for me, getting COVID was like a mild case, but for them, maybe it could be more serious. So.

• 33:49David Friedberg?

  All it takes is 10% of the population acting like what you just described, you recommended to your parents tax, for there to be economic ripples associated with this, um, uh, this, this breakthrough kind of, uh, condition for a while. And that's where I have the most concern is, again, like, you know, we're kind of.

• 34:05Jason Calacanis?

  You're not concerned about the deaths, Friedberg. You're concerned about the economic impact and the psychological scars that are now in place.

• 34:11David Friedberg?

  I will explain, I, I, I sent you guys a link to the Reuters article where they covered the press conference with the Prime Minister of Israel the other day. And, um, basically they are taking what they're calling a soft suppression strategy, um, where they're encouraging Israelis to learn to live with the virus, involving the fewest possible restrictions and avoiding a fourth national lockdown that could do further harm to the economy. And he said, implementing the strategy will entail taking certain risks, but in the overall consideration, including economic factors, this is the. Necessary balance. And so it's a it's a it's a very kind of pointed position that they're coming to. I think the US government, the federal government is going to have to come to the same one. But we have different states and different local governments that are going to act differently.

• 34:57David Friedberg?

  And because we've, you know, we have authority vested in those different jurisdictions. You could see different public policy officials take different positions in what we're talking about. If San Francisco said restaurants have to go back to 25% capacity. It would decimate these already struggling small businesses and there's no more stimulus dollars available. And so you kind of think about this, or 10% of people cancel their vacation plans. What's that going to do to airlines and hotels? So again, my my concern is, are we about to hit a wave of economic ripples? That aren't necessarily tied to what is the right thing to do from a policy perspective? Or a science or health perspective? But really the psychological effects of the scared and concerned saying, you know what?

• 35:39David Friedberg?

  There's more money available, like, you know, we got bailed out before, we'll get bailed out again. Let's implement a shutdown, let's implement a lockdown, let's not go to work. It's whatever the the decision tree you may have as a business owner or policymaker.

• 35:51David Sacks?

  Well, there's an important point here, which is, listen, COVID is going to be with us for a long time. We're going to need to make really smart cost benefit analysis decisions in how to deal with it. We can't go back to lockdowns because they didn't work and they're extremely expensive. We spent $10 trillion battling COVID last year. We cannot do that again. We don't have the the bullets and are going to keep firing at this thing like that. We got to start making intelligent decisions. Zeroism is not going to work. This idea that the premise of zeroism is that we can stamp out every last vestige of COVID. Maybe that was even a possibility when vaccines were 99% effective. But now that they're not, there's no chance of stamping out COVID.

• 36:31David Sacks?

  So we have got to learn, we've got to, like, like the Israel example, we've got to learn to live with this thing. And make smart cost benefit decisions. But I also think, you know, this is kind of a disaster for humanity. We now have this new category of illness that's rapidly mutating. We don't know what the end of it's going to be. Like I said, there's 1800 variants of the common.

• 36:52Jason Calacanis?

  What though, David?

• 36:53David Sacks?

  That's causing these symptoms. By the way, has anyone noticed how many different symptoms this virus causes in people? There's over 200.

• 37:01Jason Calacanis?

  Well, they worked on it for a long time, David, in fairness.

• 37:03David Sacks?

  Yes, exactly. Everyone knows it's a lab engineered virus that's now a plague on humanity. This is really a disaster. This is gonna, I think, permanently impact human life expectancy. I mean, this is, this is a serious problem.

• 37:17Jason Calacanis?

  Shemov, we could have avoided this entire thing, here in the United States at least, if people just took the win. How frustrating is this that we would probably have cases down to a thousand a day and deaths down to 10 a day, like Israel, if we had just gotten everybody to take one of the billions of excess vaccines sitting on shelves and in CVSs and Walgreens across this country? How stupid are we?

• 37:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  We don't have the collectivism to make those actions. If you think about what's happening in

• 37:51Jason Calacanis?

  Israel did.

• 37:53Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Two different examples. In China, collectivism manifests as like basically a top-down, you know,

• 38:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  form of governance, okay? In Israel, collectivism comes from a need for state-level security, right? I mean, I've traveled to Israel a lot. I've worked there. And it's crazy when you see how people cooperate together the minute you hear the missile alarms. You know, and so there is a way for people to do cost-benefit analyses in Israel because it's a matter of life or death. And they've been trained to do that. So either it's imposed on you like in China, or people bottoms up can understand these trade-offs like in Israel. We're in a very different place where literally what we have are three things that are in conflict with each other, Jason. We have politics and the desire for power.

• 38:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  We have the deconstruction of power by social media. And then we have the traditional media trying to stay relevant. That's a toxic thing that's spinning around and spinning around and spinning around.

• 38:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Trying to allocate this very ephemeral thing called power and influence and we don't know how it works anymore and so we cannot get our shit together. Half the people care about vegan fucking milk, the other half the people care, I mean, it's, it's, we are in a alternate universe.

• 39:13David Sacks?

  As bad as we are, Europe and even Japan have done even worse because, I mean, we, our, our government was fairly efficient about the distribution of the vaccines. In Europe, they've just completely botched it. Um, same thing in Japan. So we are not the worst on vaccination rates. Yes, it should be better, but, um.

• 39:31Jason Calacanis?

  Well, we are the worst on capturing the opportunity, David. We have the opportunity to have everybody vaccinated.

• 39:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  America, America is the most exceptional country in the world. It has been for hundreds of years. It should be for several hundred more. There is no excuse for this country to have fucked this up this badly. I've spent enough time, as, as you guys have in Europe and in Japan, it's understandable why those countries are in the positions they're in. It is not understandable why America's in the position.

• 40:00Jason Calacanis?

  So dumb. It's like, it's like having a 20-point lead and you just, with like eight minutes to go and you just screw up and you lose the game. So stupid. All right, do we want to move on to the billionaire space race?

• 40:12David Sacks?

  Yeah, I think that's positive news.

• 40:13Jason Calacanis?

  This company, uh, what's it called? Virgin Galactic? There's a company called Virgin Galactic and they take people to space. It's $200,000, stock seems to be doing pretty well. Um, anybody have thoughts on Richard Branson getting to space? I don't know, let's just randomly go to somebody, Chima. No, congratulate, in, in all seriousness, congratulations.

• 40:34Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I cried. Nat and I.

• 40:36David Friedberg?

  Start the SEC transcript, public statement, here we go.

• 40:40Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, Nat, Nat and I, uh, watched it together.

• 40:43Jason Calacanis?

  You cried?

• 40:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And it was emotional. Uh, and it's emotional because you know, I mean, being a little bit more on the inside, how hard they worked. I mean, we've all been there where we're all toiling in obscurity, where there are moments where everybody thinks that what you're doing either is crazy or isn't going to work or is going to fail. And there's a moment where you just have to push through it, right? And find people that believe in you. I think I came in very late to that, but I had the opportunity to find these incredible people, believe in them, help them, give them capital, which was essentially oxygen, right? That's oxygen for a company. And then to see them achieve it, it felt so special to be a part of it.

• 41:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So yeah, I mean, I was really emotional. And it was, it was beautiful. So I don't know, I think this is the beginning of the beginning. I tweeted this out, but basically if you think about, and there's other stuff that we can't talk about with some other companies that we are all involved in, David and I particularly, but here's the point, guys. Between sending people and making us an interplanetary species by creating pervasive internet access and by enabling us to safely and reliably transport people either point to point suborbitally or basically into space, we are completely reimagining how the human race can work. And I think that's incredible.

• 42:09Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And to be a part of that is really special. There was a lot of people who got very negative on Twitter, I noticed. There was a lot of people that said, oh, well, you know, no, like, you know, maybe now we can deal with, I don't know, child hunger or, you know, hey, why are all these billionaires doing this, that or the other? And I took a step back and I thought, my gosh, A, people are, there's a small virulent cohort of people that are incredibly negative. And B, doesn't even know what they're talking about because you're talking about issues of state responsibility and confusing it for what private citizens are doing to advance a set of technologies that I think have broad appeal. So those are my thoughts. I mean, I was, I, I, I watched every minute of it and I thought it was incredible.

• 42:54David Sacks?

  Just to add to that, um, yeah, I want to, I want to take the part that all the naysayers and the negativity. I mean, Chamath is right. All the very online people immediately came out attacking this extraordinary accomplishment and act of bravery by Branson. I mean, this is a billionaire. He doesn't need to be risking his life, launching himself into Space. I mean, this is a courageous act. You know, he's putting his, his, um, his life where his mouth is. And you had all these very online people, but you had one CNN commentator basically said this was bad for the environment. You had another one saying that, uh, calling him a tax cheat. Uh, then there was another whiner who said, what about all the starving children in the world?

• 43:36David Sacks?

  I mean, it just went on and on like this and, uh, Mike Solana had a pretty funny tweet summing up the sort of the left's, argument, uh, thusly, he said, number one, this is their argument according to Solana. One, money is evil. Two, therefore people with money are evil. Three, therefore things people with money care about evil. I mean, that is basically the level of sophistication.

• 44:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Everybody's talking evil.

• 44:01David Sacks?

  The argument that's being made. It's, it's, that's the argument that the left is making.

• 44:04Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Everybody's a Bond villain.

• 44:05David Sacks?

  Right. But here, here's the problem is that first of all, we do get tremendous benefits out of these innovators who are pushing the boundaries of science and technology and engineering. Um, you know, Branson actually went on Stephen Colbert's show and defended it. He said, he said, listen, uh, I think they're not fully, this is Branson. He said, I think they're not fully educated to what space does for earth. It's connecting the billions of people who are not connected, uh, down here. He said, every single spaceship that we've sent, putting satellites up there, monitoring different things around the world, like the degradation of rainforests, monitoring food distribution, even monitoring things like climate change. These things are essential for us back on earth. So we need more spaceships going up to space, not less.

• 44:48David Sacks?

  So, you know, they're really just kind of ignorant about the benefits of technology. And what do they want to do with the money anyway? You know, we've got all the, yes, we do have all these problems on earth, but so many of our problems are not a problem of underfunding. We have tons of money going to the problem of homelessness in California. It just keeps getting worse because we have the wrong approach. We have, on education, we have very, very.

• 45:10Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The wrong ideas.

• 45:11David Sacks?

  We have the wrong ideas.

• 45:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Organization, we have the wrong execution. Fix the operating details. It's not a money issue.

• 45:18David Sacks?

  Exactly. Take education in California. We have very high levels of per pupil spending and our. Test scores keep going down. Why? Because we have unions controlling the schools. There's no competition.

• 45:28Jason Calacanis?

  Don't worry David, we're getting rid of testing. We've eliminated testing. We solved that problem.

• 45:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  We spent more as a percentage of GDP on healthcare than any other Western country in the world. Yet the life expectancy of white men, which is basically the top of the pyramid of healthcare is now sub eighty years old. What is going on? If all of these, if all of these negative naysayers could actually just get into the arena and try to do something.

• 45:52David Sacks?

  Right. Instead of whining, instead of whining, instead of whining.

• 45:56Jason Calacanis?

  Professional whiner class.

• 45:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  They have no ideas. They have no ideas. They have no solutions. They just have gripes.

• 46:02Jason Calacanis?

  And no ability to execute, apparently.

• 46:04David Sacks?

  Yeah. Why don't they come up with new programs, actually test new programs at a hyper local level to see what works?

• 46:11Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Okay, can I tell you why? Can I, can I tell you why? These sort of like leftist whiners are not motivated to actually do the hard work. Meaning even, even, even if they have an idea for education, the precondition to working on an education program or a healthcare program is they may need to spend four or five years in the bowels, in obscurity, just learning.

• 46:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Paying their dues. They don't want to do that either because they grew up in a culture of kindergarten soccer. Everybody gets the gold star. Everybody gets to touch the ball. Everybody gets to be at the front of the line. And they're not willing to put in the work because the minute they realize how much actual work is demanded of progress, they run away because they're scared. And the reason they're scared is because somewhere along the way, somebody tricked them. That it was not actually about trying, it was actually about succeeding. And that is the biggest failure that we could do to people is all of a sudden tricking them to believe you have to have it work.

• 47:11Jason Calacanis?

  So they'd rather be hall monitors, they'd rather be critics. Yeah, they'd rather be critics than try.

• 47:17Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Failure is just as good because you're one step closer to succeeding. Somewhere along the way, unfortunately, they were not taught that incredible secret hiding in plain sight.

• 47:25Jason Calacanis?

  Friedberg, what do you think of the space race and the hall monitor whiner class?

• 47:28David Friedberg?

  If you guys look, I was going to send these statistics earlier, but if you look at the amount of venture capital money that's gone into, um, uh, into, uh, private space companies, space technology companies. I think it was a few hundred million dollars, call it three to four hundred million dollars, pretty consistently from 2011 through 2014, pretty flat.

• 47:51David Friedberg?

  And then in 2015, I think this is when SpaceX started to kind of create a lot of momentum and hype that private companies can't actually build businesses in kind of call it the space industry. The number jumped to 3 billion a year and then it was a little over 3 and a half billion in 16 and then it jumped to almost 5 billion in 17. It was a little bit down in 18. 2020, it's climbed to almost 10 billion. And in Q1 of this year, I think we're at 2 billion of venture capital money going into private space companies. So there's clearly a great deal of momentum in this industry. The question is always, what's the market at the end? And so if you break out, how do these companies make money? One is to provide services to governments, you know, launch services and taking people to the space station and what have you.

• 48:36David Friedberg?

  And SpaceX has obviously built a tremendous business in that. There has been obviously a lot of interest in tourism and I think it's, you know, we're seeing this first breakthrough with Virgin Galactic and we're going to find out over the next couple of years, is there a tourism market? Historically, there's been an interest in a market for visual satellites, but you know, if you look at some of the financials of companies like Planet Labs, they did a few acquisitions in space imaging and the revenue hasn't really taken off there. And then mining was always this other question is can we go out and mine, you know, rare minerals from space? And that one is just, you know, if you do the math on it, it's so far away, it's impossible to kind of model.

• 49:18David Friedberg?

  So I think over the next, and then finally it's communications and communications are cheaper to run on earth if you're in cities versus, you know, the SpaceX model is to reach rural areas that it's going to be more affordable to do this through space. And so, you know, there's, there's obviously a ton of momentum and a ton of interest in private companies getting to space. Everyone right now, it seems, is trying to figure out what's the market, right? What's the, how big is the market? How big is the business? And, you know, how quickly can you actually see that capital turn around into real revenue? So, you know, there's this kind of market question that I think is still outstanding. In terms of, you know, the opportunity, if you go back to like the 15th century,

• 50:01David Friedberg?

  I think something like 60 to 70% of ships maritime travel, you know, got into shipwrecks. You know, the, you know, that's around when, you know, we sailed across the Atlantic or the Spanish sailed across the Atlantic or funded.

• 50:16Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, or they disappeared.

• 50:17David Friedberg?

  Or they disappeared. I mean, they basically crashed. It didn't work.

• 50:19Jason Calacanis?

  It was a one-way trip, sometimes to the bottom of the ocean.

• 50:22David Friedberg?

  If you were sitting in Spain in 1450 and someone said, hey, these ships, it's going to be a great business. We're going to build lots of ships and we're going to go out. Maybe we'll get trade routes going. Maybe we'll discover new land. Maybe we'll make money. Maybe we'll take people on trips on these ships. You would be like, this is crazy. Half the people are dying. There's no market on the other side. So, you know, we are in that kind of.

• 50:45Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And you would have been totally wrong.

• 50:47David Friedberg?

  Yeah. And you are in that 15th century moment right now with the space industry.

• 50:51Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Great analogy.

• 50:52David Friedberg?

  Now, would anyone in the space, would anyone in the ship business in the 15th century have been able to predict Carnival cruise lines or been able to predict evergreen ships taking stuff from China to America with these huge shipping crates? Would anyone have been able to predict, you know, going down to the bottom of the Atlantic? I mean, like all of the technology and the entire industry that kind of came out of that, you know, that, that, that set of pioneering activity in the 15th century transformed the planet, transformed the economy, transformed humanity. And, you know, it's very, it's very hard, it's very hard to sit here today and say, hey, I know where space is going, where the space industry is going. I know what's going to be possible. But I can tell you

• 51:34David Friedberg?

  that if history is any predictor of the future, you know, this pioneering work that's going on, which is burning tons of money and, and everyone's kind of questioning whether there's businesses here, it could transform our species once again. So, yeah.

• 51:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  David, your 15th century shipping example is so beautiful. Three things that came out of that, which I think we all value. One, insurance.

• 52:01Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Uh, two, Tortlaw.

• 52:03Jason Calacanis?

  And CARRY.

• 52:04Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Exactly. Um, and three was basically how they did risk management so that, you know, each ship would take a little piece of everybody else's cargo so that some of the cargo would always get to.

• 52:14David Friedberg?

  Marketplaces emerged. Lloyds of London came about. Yeah, Lloyds of London emerged because of the maritime insurance that was required. And the, and almost all P and C insurance can trace its roots back to maritime insurance during that, that era.

• 52:25Jason Calacanis?

  Wow.

• 52:26David Friedberg?

  And so, so these, these ancillary industries that emerged were like surprising, right?

• 52:30Jason Calacanis?

  It's almost business models emerged because you had to figure out how you do the arbitrage here. And CARRY is the perfect example. People don't understand the venture capital CARRY, we get 20% of the profits was designed so that people with ships, the captain would get to say, we get 20% of whatever makes it there. Now you're aligned. Whatever makes it there, you get 20% of. Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to go through that storm and I'm going to try to get it there. And we don't, there's so many unknowns, but just looking at the one thing, you know, Starlink, um, I was doing a little research today about internet penetration. We've got, you know, close to five billion people on the internet now, but a very small number of them are on broadband. It's like 20%, 30%, somewhere in that number. It's hard, it's hard to get an exact number there. But if you think about

• 53:11Jason Calacanis?

  what's going to happen to humanity, we're talking about billions of people who did not have access to broadband and they are going to go from not having, you know, if you think about what we went through in the West when the internet first came out and we got our first broadband connections, you know, defined as like DSL or whatever. We had libraries, we had books, we had colleges, we had stores everywhere, Barnes and Noble. So the internet was unbelievably transformative, but we were in a modern society. Now you go to the developing world and they're going to go from, you know, not even having running water in some cases in their homes or electricity or, you know, variable to having broadband and they're

• 53:51Jason Calacanis?

  going to have access to YouTube circa 2022, 2023. They're going to have access to, you know, MIT courseware or brilliant.org and all of this information and shopping. We're going to take a billion or two billion people and give them broadband instantly within a decade? This is going to change the, the face of the planet. I think that that's the revolution and it's not just Starlink doing it. There's like three competitors to Starlink. Obviously, Starlink's got the biggest lead.

• 54:19David Friedberg?

  Yeah, before SpaceX doing this and there were others, there was a company called O3B. It was stood for Other Three Billion and they had raised a ton of money to do this. I just, by the way, I just want to speak to like a trend that we've seen and also speak to the quality of Elon's leadership.

• 54:39David Friedberg?

  So many companies have tried this. Google talked about it for years, which is how you connect.

• 54:43Jason Calacanis?

  Project Loon.

• 54:44David Friedberg?

  Well, Project Loon was a follow on to what we talked about early on at Google, which was putting up satellites. And ultimately, Google had a satellite program that was killed in favor of buying a company called Skybox. And Skybox was this coastal venture backed startup that was trying to make a smaller scale startup. And if you guys will remember, around the early 2010s, there were a bunch of startups that emerged that were all about building small scale satellites that could go up into low earth orbit and do things like imaging and communications. And a bunch of these companies were banking on the fact that the cost per kilogram to get your payload into space was declining pretty precipitously. So they were like, let's make super cheap commodity, you know, space imaging or space communication boxes, put them in space.

• 55:29David Friedberg?

  And after a couple of years, they'll fall out of orbit and burn up, but it doesn't matter. If we can get enough use out of them and they cost so little to put into space and they cost so little to make, let's put hundreds of them up. So there's a company called Planet Labs that does this, that's I think going public via SPAC now. Again, they've been challenged with building the business in imaging. But there was, Google bought a company for, I think, half a billion dollars called Skybox trying to do this, which was like imaging slash comms. And they had a bigger refrigerator sized box that they were trying to put up. Ultimately, Google spun that out to Planet Labs and the whole thing kind of, you know, became imaging. But I just want to highlight that this has been a big trend for a while and it speaks to the quality of Elon, his leadership. Because the fact that this guy did what 20 other, 30 other people have tried, companies have tried to do for the past decade or so.

• 56:14David Friedberg?

  And he said, you know what, instead of just providing the infrastructure to get all these devices into space, we're just going to build the actual devices, get this thing up and just go crazy with it and put our capital into it. And it's really impressive to see because it's such a no brainer and people have been talking about this opportunity for over a decade. And these guys just have absolutely rushed the field and they could build an incredible business out of this.

• 56:37Jason Calacanis?

  The two most important companies in satellite communications are Starlink and Swarm.

• 56:42Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And Swarm was a company that I seeded and Saks did the Series A. And if you talk to the founders of that company, they'll give you this use case. And I think it was in 2014. Do you guys remember there was like a Malaysian Airlines flight that just disappeared?

• 56:57Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 56:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Disappeared.

• 56:59Jason Calacanis?

  370.

• 57:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah, Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. And it was like 230, 240 people that passed away. And the most indelible question that I remember from this was, we couldn't track it. And I thought to myself, how is that even possible? How do you lose a flight in the middle of the earth? It's not possible. It turns out it is because our internet coverage is so sad that it only covers small areas. And it made obvious that we should live in a world where there is absolutely pervasive internet access everywhere. Every single little shred inch of the world should be covered and saturated. That should never happen.

• 57:45Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The people should be able to have closure. They should be able to go and get that plane, recover the bodies, give them proper funeral. These are simple things, but they're human things that we should be doing as human beings.

• 57:55Jason Calacanis?

  And just think about the IoT.

• 57:56Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And internet access enables this. And the idea that we can't do that is shocking. And so I agree with you, Friedberg. Elon's incredible. And I think that within the next five years, we'll probably have pervasive internet access everywhere in the earth. And that's transformational. The second most valuable private company in space is also a company that I invested in, led the Series A, called Relativity Space. And their idea, which I think will help everybody that wants to go to Mars and other places, is why don't we just 3D print the rockets? And why don't we 3D print the engines? And why don't we make that functionally useful?

• 58:38Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Because it basically takes the cost of a rocket and divides it by 10. And these printers are small enough where you can actually send them and dismantle them and take them with you to Mars and set them up there. And all of a sudden, you can print the parts that you need to get back to Earth, as an example. So I think that additive manufacturing has an enormous upside here in space.

• 59:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And I think that that's another area that's going to be really, really.

• 59:06Jason Calacanis?

  Anybody read Andy Weir's Hail Mary yet? The guy who did The Martian? He's a science fiction author. It's really great because you don't actually know what you're going to find out there. I think that's one of the things that, you know, to Friedberg's point, what do we find out there? What if we find a compound out there that like plutonium has some attributes that we could leverage in very small amounts to create unlimited energy or unlimited prosperity in some ways? There are things that can exist that we have not been exposed to. And of course, the probability is there are many things that we have yet to be exposed to. Hundred percent.

• 59:40David Friedberg?

  Yeah, look, I don't subscribe to that thesis. I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. And this maybe also speaks a little bit to some of the counterpoints against the space industry getting the attention and resourcing it has relative to, call it, other places to allocate capital and human resourcing. And that is like, the tools that we have in science and engineering today as a species continues to expand at kind of a geometric pace. Our ability to convert any molecule into any other molecule is basically fulfilled now. It's a function at this point of how much energy and time it takes to do that work. So almost all industry, the function of industry is to convert molecules from

• 1:00:25David Friedberg?

  one form to another. And we have tools ranging from hardware engineering, mechanical engineering, and more recently in the early 20th century, chemical engineering, and in the 21st century, biochemical engineering. Those tools are allowing us to invent, discover, and convert molecules and even in some cases, kind of elemental forms that into nearly anything else we want to produce. And the technology is accelerating in such a way, the set of technologies compound, that if you think about 100 years from now, 200 years from now, 500 years from now, the human species theoretically, for very minimal time and very minimal energy, should be able to have something that looks akin today to the Star

• 1:01:06David Friedberg?

  Trek replicator. You basically type into a device what you'd like to make, and it makes it for you in a few minutes. And you could, just like Mr. Fusion and Back to the Future 2, you could put any input you want into the thing. You could throw in bananas and cans and whatever, and out comes this thing you want to make. So as the human species evolved towards that capability,

• 1:01:25David Friedberg?

  And we don't need to get into the details. That's just like the general trend line. It becomes less relevant that we need to go get other molecules or go get other things from extraplanetary sources. The planet Earth has, you know, the order of 10 to the 23rd atoms. You know, 2/3 of the surface is water. There is so much that is like unexplored and untapped from a resource perspective within this spaceship that we're already on, that the argument would be made that our technology is allowing us to effectively recreate all of our fantastic dreams, right here where we live today. And, you know, first thing we're gonna have to do is fix this planet and fix the ecosystems that are kind of at risk. But as we progress and as these technologies progress,

• 1:02:06David Friedberg?

  we can do these extraordinary things that we don't necessarily need to rely on extraplanetary travel and colonization in order to achieve those objectives. So that's the optimistic counter-argument.

• 1:02:17Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, but we keep finding things like these molecules in Titan's atmosphere, etc., that we can't explain, and we're finding those through telescopes, let alone we get out there. I mean, we might be able to create them, sure.

• 1:02:30David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:30Jason Calacanis?

  But we're gonna discover them in other places. They may be beyond our human comprehension that these things could even exist, David.

• 1:02:37David Friedberg?

  There are interesting things we're seeing there, for sure. And I think, you know, I think I mentioned this book before. It's so esoteric and difficult, but it's called "Every Life is on Fire", by this guy named Jeremy England. And he highlights how all of evolution is effectively predicted by statistical physics. And the energy bath and the molecules within a system create a structure of molecules that you wouldn't see except for that condition. Meaning that over time, the complexity of that system evolves to create an equilibrium with the energy that it's covered in. So what we see on planet Earth, he argues, is organic molecules in what we call life,

• 1:03:20David Friedberg?

  which are these molecules that are really good at copying themselves to absorb energy and dissipate energy. So the molecules and the energy state of, you know, Titan is different than what we see at Earth. So the way the molecules have evolved there are so different than what we've seen on Earth. And you can see these incredible concepts of what we wouldn't call life today, but really could be defined as life there. And so there's certainly a lot to learn and a lot to explore. It doesn't mean that we're limited in terms of our ability to kind of realize those things here on planet Earth. But you're absolutely right. Like, exploration is the core of being a human, right?

• 1:03:52Jason Calacanis?

  And for people who don't know Titan is one of the, it's the largest moon of Saturn and it's got its own really weird dense atmosphere that's icy and slushy and we don't even, we can't even comprehend half the stuff going on there yet.

• 1:04:07David Friedberg?

  Would any of you guys take the Richard Branson trip? Would you do the, you know, like next week or two years? I guess at what point would you be comfortable taking it? I'm sure you've taken, you're signed up.

• 1:04:17Jason Calacanis?

  I can answer for Saks, the answer's no.

• 1:04:19Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Six hundred and, six hundred and something, so.

• 1:04:23Jason Calacanis?

  How many flights more would you want to see? You would want to do 10 more flights, 20 more flights?

• 1:04:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, I feel, I feel really confident that we know what we're doing. The, this flight was so critical because it was about figuring out what it was like to have passengers in the back and how they'd all behave when you had multiple folks. And I think, once that readout is done and Richard apparently took a bunch of notes. So, you know, we'll, we'll be starting commercial ops, I think, you know, the next two or three quarters, so.

• 1:04:51Jason Calacanis?

  Wow. Yeah, I mean, when you have, yeah, Saks.

• 1:04:55David Sacks?

  Well, I mean, if, if I had a $500 million super yacht like Jeff Bezos, that's where I'd be hanging out. I don't think I'd be blasting, I would be blasting myself into space. But, I mean, look, more power to them. I mean, they got, you know, they certainly have got guts. Yeah.

• 1:05:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He's doing both.

• 1:05:12David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:13David Friedberg?

  Jake, how would you do it?

• 1:05:14Jason Calacanis?

  I, you know, I, my, my theory is with kids, I kind of think differently about it. But if I was over 70 like Branson, certainly I would do it. Yeah. I, I would have to have that conversation with my spouse and my kids and say, you know, hey, this opportunity exists. They've done, let's call it 100 flights, somewhere in that neighborhood. I would, I think I would feel pretty comfortable doing it, but I would want to check in with my, my family and kids and see if we were all in sync on taking that level. I, I stopped riding motorcycles as an example. I think that flying and space tourism in the next year or two will be safer than riding a motorcycle. And then eventually it'll be safer than.

• 1:05:53Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You know, driving a car or something. It's it's quite possible.

• 1:05:57David Friedberg?

  I was I was watching a space show with my daughter. She's three years old on the couch the other day. And then she um, she was like, oh, space. It looks so fun. And I'm like, make, you know, I said, do you want to go to space? And she said, she looked back at me and she said, I want to go to space with you. And it made me cry. It was the first time I'd ever thought like, man, I

• 1:06:14Chamath Palihapitiya?

  First time you'd ever cried?

• 1:06:15David Friedberg?

  First time I ever cried.

• 1:06:16Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, we just uploaded that to his firmware.

• 1:06:18David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:19Jason Calacanis?

  Crying.

• 1:06:19David Friedberg?

  But I was like,

• 1:06:20Jason Calacanis?

  What are these water particles on my chin?

• 1:06:23David Friedberg?

  But I had, I had like, I had like, no desire, I would say before she said that, to go to space, but it was a um,

• 1:06:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Can I, can I, can I give you an idea?

• 1:06:30David Friedberg?

  It was kind of a poignant moment that like, man, this like, moment of like, inspiration of like, going to space is something that like, I think is going to inspire, um, you know, a generation. And and I told my daughter, I said, you know, you are going to go to space. Uh, I hope I can be there with you. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:45Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Can I give you an idea? Two different ideas, but they're roughly related. When each of your kids turn eighteen, um, buy them a ticket to space so that they become an astronaut. Um, which I think is like a beautiful kind of an idea where like, you know, what an incredible present to give somebody as they mature into aged. You know, if you, if you read, if you, if you basically have heard all these astronauts have said, you know, the the overview effect, like when you're above the earth looking down, it has this completely transformational effect on your outlook on life and the planet. And so, you know, to the extent that that's a quantifiable thing to give that to your child seems like an enormous gift.

• 1:07:24Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Or, or um, when everybody's of age or whatever, where all of you guys go as a family so that the whole cabin is your family, that would be really cool, too. Either of those ideas, I will do one of those two for sure.

• 1:07:35Jason Calacanis?

  Hold on a second, Shabbat. There were four people, correct, on this flight, if I remember correctly?

• 1:07:39Chamath Palihapitiya?

  In this one, there's four passengers, yeah.

• 1:07:40Jason Calacanis?

  Okay, wait a second. There are four besties. How are you not setting up a flight for the hundredth episode of All In to be on Virgin Galactic? Can you imagine watching David cry and be so scared?

• 1:07:54Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I can pretty much guarantee you, I can, obviously, you guys have to buy tickets, but I can pretty much guarantee you that if the three of you decided to buy tickets, I I'm pretty sure I can organize that we all go on the same flight.

• 1:08:06Jason Calacanis?

  That would be ratings bonanza. That would be bigger than Saks getting COVID.

• 1:08:11David Sacks?

  That's all I need is to be entombed with you guys for eternity.

• 1:08:16Jason Calacanis?

  You know you want it. You know you want it.

• 1:08:20David Friedberg?

  Hey, Chamath, can you address the Von Karman line controversy around, you know, what's the right point to be in space? Because it came up a lot this week in the news. I didn't want to kind of bring it up.

• 1:08:30Jason Calacanis?

  Came up by one person.

• 1:08:32David Friedberg?

  Well, no, no, there was people talking about on the news and stuff like, maybe you can just share for everyone.

• 1:08:35Jason Calacanis?

  That was just Blue Origin being lame. Honestly, that's so petty by Bezos.

• 1:08:39David Friedberg?

  Yeah, so maybe just share what happened and kind of, you know, the point of view on this. Be awesome.

• 1:08:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Basically, the question is, what defines space, right? So if you, if you just like, start from the bottom, from ground level, right, you have the trophosphere, right? So you have like the first kind of like 10, 20 kilometers or so, right? Then you have the stratosphere, right? That's where like a lot of like weather balloon activity happens. That's at 50 kilometers. Then you have the mesosphere, right? That's where you'll see things like meteors and stuff. Then you get to basically the Karman line, which is around, I don't know, 100 kilometers or so. There are a bunch of countries that either

• 1:09:21Chamath Palihapitiya?

  have no opinion or point to this kind of group to define what the beginning of space is. And they defined that at about 100 clicks, which is, I want to say 62 miles, okay? Then there's the United States and the DOD and NASA, et cetera. And we define it at a different level, 50 odd miles. And so in the United States, you need to pass the US regulatory bodies definition of what the threshold of space is to be considered an astronaut. There is other countries that would

• 1:10:05Chamath Palihapitiya?

  then point to a different line, the Karman line as the line. I think the point is, it's all much ado about nothing. I think in the end, I think Virgin stated that they went to 52 and a half or 53 and a half. You know, things are iterative, so over time, folks will get higher and higher.

• 1:10:25Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But the point is, okay, and what? You basically go into space, you get to see the planet, you get to feel microgravity. You know, you get the benefit of the overview effect, whether you're at 52 and a half, I'm guessing you'll get the same effect at 58 or 60 or 61. And then you come back to Earth. So I thought it was kind of a little cheap and unnecessary.

• 1:10:50David Friedberg?

  Because there's nothing, there's nothing experience wise that changes, right? I mean, like the

• 1:10:54Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Not to my understanding, yeah.

• 1:10:56Jason Calacanis?

  Blue Origin did a tweet, "From the beginning, New Shepard was designed to fly above the Karman line, so none of our astronauts would have an asterisk next to their name. For 96% of the world's population, space begins 100 kilometers up in the interstellar." It's just like, why would they do that the days before the Richard Branson goes up? It's just totally classless. It shows that Bezos has a competitive streak, which is just not graceful, I would say. And I think there's a little bit of bitterness there. And then you look at Elon. What did Elon do? He went

• 1:11:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He's so classy.

• 1:11:30Jason Calacanis?

  He went

• 1:11:30Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He's so classy.

• 1:11:31Jason Calacanis?

  And he took a picture with Branson and he went to support him and wrote a congratulatory tweet. Elon does not feel he's in competition, but for some reason Bezos, you know Bezos had to like draft and approve this specific tweet from Blue Origin. And I just thought it was classless and just stupid, Jeff, really. Made you look so bad.

• 1:11:51Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Elon, Elon was so fabulous. I mean, it just shows you like what a class act he is and what he cares about, which is like he cares about advancing humans and our ability to do things that are incredible and inspiring. And when other people do it, he's not zero sum about it. As you said, Jason, he was there, he was supportive. It was just lovely to see.

• 1:12:14David Sacks?

  I think Bezos is still stung for when Elon said he couldn't get it up. Meaning couldn't get his, couldn't get his rocket into space, so.

• 1:12:22David Friedberg?

  So I don't know if that was, that was too classy of Elon.

• 1:12:26David Sacks?

  Well, it was funny, it was funny. Yeah.

• 1:12:29Jason Calacanis?

  Well, I don't know if you guys have seen Jeff's rocket? Kind of small. This rocket is, I mean,

• 1:12:37David Sacks?

  Jason, now you're doing it.

• 1:12:38Jason Calacanis?

  Kind of tiny rocket.

• 1:12:41Jason Calacanis?

  Just so we put a pin in it. Melvin Capital, the people who went to war with the Reddit traders or vice versa, lost $5 billion.

• 1:12:50David Sacks?

  Couldn't happen to a nicer group of people.

• 1:12:52Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, they're down 46%, which is just shocking in and of itself in this kind of upmarket. But then to actually quantify it, they lost $5 billion fighting a bunch of self-proclaimed Rs. I wouldn't say the word because I don't want to get canceled, but they call themselves Rs on

• 1:13:13David Sacks?

  Redditors.

• 1:13:15Jason Calacanis?

  They cost them $5 billion.

• 1:13:17Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Jason, you can say it. You're not calling them that. They call themselves that.

• 1:13:21Jason Calacanis?

  They call themselves that, yes. All right, listen, love you besties. Sax, we're glad that you're safe and you're healthy.

• 1:13:29David Sacks?

  No thanks to you.

• 1:13:30Jason Calacanis?

  No jokes. I didn't put any jokes in there. I have so many jokes, I'm gonna save them.

• 1:13:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I mean, honestly, my thought on your recovery is no comment.

• 1:13:40Jason Calacanis?

  I'm just jealous you're gonna lose another five fricking pounds because of this.

• 1:13:43David Sacks?

  Oh, yeah. I'm down to 178, by the way.

• 1:13:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Come on, stop. Are you really?

• 1:13:47Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Manorexic. I can't even break one.

• 1:13:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  When are you gonna stop?

• 1:13:51Jason Calacanis?

  Was there a bet or no? No bet. I would lose that bet. That'd be like me playing sax and chess. It's just not.

• 1:13:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Jason, what are you tipping the scales at right now?

• 1:14:00Jason Calacanis?

  191.

• 1:14:01Chamath Palihapitiya?

  190 and you're about to come to Italy and basically you're gonna gain 15 pounds for sure.

• 1:14:06Jason Calacanis?

  No, I'm doing one meal a day. One meal a day. That's it. One meal a day. That's it. I'm eating one meal a day.

• 1:14:14Chamath Palihapitiya?

  How are you gonna turn down the food? But what if you eat for three hours in that one meal?

• 1:14:18Jason Calacanis?

  I just, I try everything. I'll just try and then I have discipline now. Just like I stopped using Twitter. I'm stopping Twitter.

• 1:14:23David Sacks?

  Can I tell one funny story about J Cal in Italy? Talking about discipline. Okay, so we were there in Italy. When was this, J Cal? A few years ago, whatever?

• 1:14:31Jason Calacanis?

  This is a long time ago. This is when we were in Venice.

• 1:14:34David Sacks?

  Yeah, you were with Jade and I was with Javlin.

• 1:14:38David Sacks?

  We went to some ice cream place, right? And so we all had, we all had these like. Ice cream gelato with like two scoops or whatever on there. So Jason finishes his in like five seconds.

• 1:14:51David Sacks?

  And then he walks up to Jacqueline and just goes like, like that. And, and in one fell swoop, he ate the, the gelato off her ice cream cone. It was like, it was like a bulldog. It was like, it was like a bulldog just eating your ice cream.

• 1:15:08Jason Calacanis?

  But how good was that fish that we got? Remember that restaurant I found?

• 1:15:11David Sacks?

  Yeah, the Dorad.

• 1:15:12Jason Calacanis?

  The Dorad. I mean, we still talk about that place.

• 1:15:14David Sacks?

  Yeah, that was like one of the best meals you ever had.

• 1:15:16Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I've been having a gelato, guys, every day, every day.

• 1:15:20Jason Calacanis?

  But they're so small. That's what I love about the Italian thing. It's a little, it's such a cute little.

• 1:15:24Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And it doesn't feel like there's like a lot of preservatives and stuff in there.

• 1:15:27Jason Calacanis?

  It's just like butter and sugar, heavy cream, whatever it is, it's so good.

• 1:15:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's so good.

• 1:15:33Jason Calacanis?

  It's so good. How the tomatoes right now? I can't wait to have some tomatoes.

• 1:15:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Incredible, incredible. I mean, I eat them, I bathe in them, I rub them on my face.

• 1:15:40Jason Calacanis?

  What about the mutts? You got the mutts? How's the barana on the mutts? I can't wait.

• 1:15:45David Sacks?

  He's gonna gain 15 pounds.

• 1:15:47Jason Calacanis?

  Hundred percent he's gonna break.

• 1:15:49David Sacks?

  Look at him.

• 1:15:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:15:50Jason Calacanis?

  We should do a weigh in when we get there and a weigh in at the end. That would be the bet.

• 1:15:55Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I don't know how you're gonna turn down this food. I don't know how you're gonna say no to the pasta. You'll have pasta at lunch, pasta dinner. You're just gonna, you're gonna go crazy.

• 1:16:02Jason Calacanis?

  I'm gonna just have two bites of everything. Two bites of six different pastas and I'll be fine.

• 1:16:07Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And by the way, by the way, the, the, the, the biggest, the best kept secret is the Italian, the quality of Italian white wine is outrageous.

• 1:16:18Jason Calacanis?

  Really?

• 1:16:19Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's outrageous.

• 1:16:21Jason Calacanis?

  We should play some cards and drink some wine.

• 1:16:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I think we're gonna play, no?

• 1:16:25David Sacks?

  How many, how many calories are in the white wine, Chamath?

• 1:16:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Calories? I don't know. I mean, I have no idea. But, you know, look, the thing in the summertime here is you end up walking. So I end up walking a lot or bicycling a little bit, blah, blah, blah. At the end of the day, like you're burning through everything.

• 1:16:40Jason Calacanis?

  I gotta say, this e-bike I got, I got a rad power bike.

• 1:16:43Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, no, no. The, the whole point is to not have a motor that powers it, you fucking lazy bastard.

• 1:16:47Jason Calacanis?

  No, no, you, what you don't understand is because you have the motor in it, Chamath, you ride your bike normal, but then like, let's say you do have dinner or something like that, or you wanna go to dinner 10 miles away or 15 miles away. You might not take your bike. It's too long of a ride. With these electric bikes, instead of going 10 miles on the way there, it takes your 10 mile ride and just puts you at 25, but you're still burning the same number of calories. It's like augmenting. I really think that electric bikes are going to change cities like in a major way. They're already starting to in Europe and in China, but all right, everybody, we'll see you next time on the all in podcast. Love you, Sax.

• 1:17:19David Sacks?

  Back at you.

• 1:17:21Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Sax, I hope you get better.

• 1:17:23Jason Calacanis?

  Feel better.

• 1:17:23David Sacks?

  Thank you. Thanks, guys.

• 1:17:25Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26David Sacks?

  I'm better. I'm ready, better. Don't worry about it.

• 1:17:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And wait, Friedberg, you have nothing to say? Computer.

• 1:17:31Jason Calacanis?

  It does not compute. The three of you. It was nice to check off the box for my social interactions for the week. I will now go back. Done 75 minutes of social interaction powering down in three, two, one. Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma. See you next time. Bye bye.

• 1:17:49David Sacks?

  We'll let your winners ride.

• 1:17:52Jason Calacanis?

  Rain Man David Sax.

• 1:17:56David Sacks?

  And it said, we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it.

• 1:18:00Jason Calacanis?

  Love you, Saks. I'm the queen of Kinoa.

• 1:18:05David Sacks?

  Let, let your winners ride.

• 1:18:09Jason Calacanis?

  Besties are gone.

• 1:18:12David Friedberg?

  That's my dog taking a piss in your driveway, Sax.

• 1:18:17Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh, man.

• 1:18:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy because they're all just pissed. It's like this like sexual tension that we just need to release somehow.

• 1:18:28Jason Calacanis?

  What your B B?

• 1:18:29David Sacks?

  What your B? Your feet.

• 1:18:31Jason Calacanis?

  B.

• 1:18:32David Sacks?

  What?

• 1:18:33Jason Calacanis?

  We need to get merch. Besties are back.