'What Lies Beneath’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin sail up to Vermont for a sleepy weekend at the Spencer residence to rewatch the 2000 horror mystery ‘What Lies Beneath’ starring Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink. Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion. It even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream. Don't get angry, get orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com. Angry Orchard, cider company, LLC. Angryorchard.com. Please drink responsibly. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. This episode is brought to you by Quince. Finding a decent piece of clothing can be a lot harder than finding a decent movie,

• 0:44Bill Simmons?

  but that was before Quince. Quince has staple pieces made from premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, and everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. It's the perfect place to start building a cozy fall outfit without any absurd markups. For instance, I love a good vest. They have a lightweight, down, packable puffer vest, which is an easy fall layer, although nobody loves layers more than Chris Ryan. You can throw it over a sweater, long sleeve, whenever you want to make an outfit feel a little more seasonal, simple, classic, one of those pieces that works with pretty much everything that's already in your closet. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com.

• 1:27Bill Simmons?

  Get free shipping on your order, 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it's a Rewatchables podcast. They would appreciate that. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:45Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find The Watch with Chris Ryan. That's right. You can find House of Art. You're still podcasting, right? Still podcasting. House of Art with Malley Rubin. That's right. We did 50 most rewatchable movies ever as one of the last pods. The last movie we've done was F1, which you were here for. Last night, my son comes home, doesn't have a lot of homework. School just started again. And my wife and him are negotiating movies. Somehow, they start with Devil Wears Prada. My son hadn't seen it.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:17Bill Simmons?

  They run through the whole thing. You know what? I didn't leave the room.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  I bet not.

• 2:20Bill Simmons?

  It was number one. It was like approved the ranking.

• 2:22Chris Ryan?

  2026 is just racking up numbers. Do you think they saw your clips? Like any of the clips from that mailbag? And they were like, let's do Dad Proud.

• 2:30Bill Simmons?

  No, my, my son watched 10 minutes, 12 minutes of the top 50.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36Bill Simmons?

  Thought it was a good idea, but got bored.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Did he go to Instagram to look at the graphic?

• 2:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't know if he did that. Anyway, rewatchables, we're just cranking it in 2026. We're trying to do some movies because we're moving the rewatchables, the video, still on Spotify.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:51Bill Simmons?

  Or we're moving it to Netflix at the end of the month. We're gonna try to match it with some Netflix movies, including What Lies Beneath, which is on Netflix and is a movie very dear to your heart.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Well, it features two of the hottest people ever to walk the earth.

• 3:05Bill Simmons?

  More importantly, evil Harrison Ford.

• 3:07Chris Ryan?

  James Raymar and Miranda Otto.

• 3:09Bill Simmons?

  And James Raymar.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  You know how I feel about Miranda Otto.

• 3:12Bill Simmons?

  What Lies Beneath is next.

• 3:28Bill Simmons?

  All right, the duel is here. Michelle Pfeiffer versus Harrison Ford. My favorite versus your favorite. Let's go. It's like heated rivalry all over again.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  That's not what happens. You can tell he hasn't watched heated rivalry.

• 3:41Chris Ryan?

  It would be Harrison Ford and James Raymar if it was heated rivalry.

• 3:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, my bad.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Um, why choose? I mean, I would choose Harrison Ford over any other person in the history of the world because he is the most precious thing to me and to so many. But why not both? I mean, that's the great joy of the film is getting to watch Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer. Whisper into each other's ears. Tickle some chest hair.

• 4:05Bill Simmons?

  Believable couple.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Can we take a believable couple? Sure. Hot people like to fuck each other, right?

• 4:10Bill Simmons?

  Mouse off to a roaring start.

• 4:13Chris Ryan?

  Did you have a lot of anticipation for this when it was coming out in 2000? Were you like, the two number one draft picks are united?

• 4:20Bill Simmons?

  The thing is, I didn't have Michelle Pfeiffer season tickets because.

• 4:24Chris Ryan?

  In 2000?

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 4:25Bill Simmons?

  Little bit of a broken picker with some of her movies.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Well.

• 4:28Bill Simmons?

  Some movies that I'm just like, I'm not going to see that. You ever heard that expression when a friend of yours is just dating the wrong people and you're like, a little bit of a broken picker?

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 4:37Bill Simmons?

  I didn't, I thought she had a little bit of a script.

• 4:39Chris Ryan?

  I've never heard that.

• 4:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, couple. I just, she lost my trust a little bit, but I was always there. If it was going to be like a vehicle.

• 4:47Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 4:47Bill Simmons?

  For all the things I liked about her, but I mean, the irony of this is this is the last really big movie in their kind of late primes that they did. They both moved into a different phase, which we'll talk about later, but see our, why don't we do this more often? Just two massive stars, we throw them together, they're a little bit in danger, one of us in danger, like, shouldn't we just do, like, where are the, all the stars we have now? Just make movies like this.

• 5:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, I think every once in a while you see somebody come up with an idea to do something like this. There's like an 824 movie coming out with Zendaya and Robert Pattinson that looks like it has some of those qualities that you're talking about where it's like, people like these two a lot, let's put them together and throw a concept on it.

• 5:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 5:26Chris Ryan?

  The interesting thing about what lies beneath to me is the way that it transitions a little bit from the From Hell erotic thriller 90s into the high concept 2000s. And it becomes, if you go into this thinking it's an erotic thriller, I dare say you might, you might need a little bit of the Billy Bob Thornton juice to get through it.

• 5:45Bill Simmons?

  Little movie blue balls.

• 5:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 5:47Chris Ryan?

  I think it's way more of a haunted house ghost story than it is a erotic thriller.

• 5:51Bill Simmons?

  It's also, I wrote down the ultimate family horror movie. Along the lines of like a Poltergeist.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  What do you mean by family horror?

• 6:00Bill Simmons?

  Of a movie that.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  For the family to share?

• 6:02Bill Simmons?

  You can kind of, it's.

• 6:03Chris Ryan?

  Oh, the whole family can watch.

• 6:04Bill Simmons?

  It's not like, hey, guys, let's cue a hereditary.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 6:09Bill Simmons?

  Christmas Eve, what do you think? This is like a safe horror movie. It's scary, but it's not too scary.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  It's spooky.

• 6:15Bill Simmons?

  It's spooky, it's creepy.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:17Bill Simmons?

  It's uncomfortable, but it's not like. Scary, scary.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, you know, I basically want to spend as much time with Harrison Ford as I can, but I don't, as you guys know, like horror movies because I'm a coward, I'm a weak baby and a coward.

• 6:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  So this was one for a while. It's like, can I handle it? But I do think the genre meld makes it palatable to people who are a little bit horror averse because the supernatural element is very prominent and the like domestic thriller aspect. That, that blend spares it from being too scary, prohibitively scary, but it is certainly like alarming.

• 6:51Bill Simmons?

  It's, there's a couple of great sequences that we'll talk about, but, I mean, the bathtub, bathtub stuff is like really high end.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 6:59Bill Simmons?

  Disorienting and, and there's a couple of good jump scares.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  There are.

• 7:03Chris Ryan?

  We haven't done a really significant director recast in a long time. Like, we usually skip past that category or just, we briefly talk about it. This is one I think you could have a 20 minute conversation about all the different people who are around around this time who would have had different takes on the same material and like provoked way different reactions than Zemeckis. Zemeckis like is a master technician, he's an amazing filmmaker, but like,

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:33Chris Ryan?

  you know, like there are guys out there that would have gone further than the red apple and the red dress, just put it that way.

• 7:38Bill Simmons?

  And there's probably some actresses that might have taken it up a notch, too.

• 7:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:43Bill Simmons?

  There's another thing. This is a PG 13 performance by Michelle Pfeiffer. Even the sex scene, which I'm sure we'll talk about later, I'm almost positive.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 7:53Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's a little tame. It's a little TNT-ish. They're not going showtime.

• 7:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:58Bill Simmons?

  Circa 2012.

• 8:02Bill Simmons?

  Nobody's with me on that.

• 8:03Chris Ryan?

  Of course.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm.

• 8:04Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to think of like the.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  We're stunned into silence because our minds are racing with the possibilities.

• 8:08Bill Simmons?

  The raciest cable time we've had.

• 8:10Chris Ryan?

  Skinamax.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  No question.

• 8:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, yeah, that's, that's its own thing. The recipe for this movie.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:16Bill Simmons?

  Two massive attractive stars.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:18Bill Simmons?

  And accessible ghost mystery. A fucking awesome house.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  It's a great house.

• 8:24Bill Simmons?

  It's kind of a stealth shaky marriage movie.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 8:27Bill Simmons?

  And then it's a, one of my favorites, Mal.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:30Bill Simmons?

  The she's going nuts and nobody believes in her.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:33Bill Simmons?

  But I kind of believe her. I don't think she's crazy, but everyone else does. I love movies like that.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  I think the part of the fun of the movie, especially the first time you watch it, and then I would say maybe the second time you watch it, because when a movie is rooted in some capacity in a twist, the first time you re-watch it, you're like, okay, I see all of the clues, all of the breadcrumbs and where they're pointing. There are like a number of different twists in the movie ultimately. I will say, one thing we should talk about at some point today is how the trailer basically completely gives away the movie.

• 9:00Bill Simmons?

  I had that as number one, What's Hates the Worst.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Real What's Hates the Worst, so that's tough.

• 9:03Bill Simmons?

  The trailer fucking killed it. It was like, oh, it's evil Harrison Ford, he's the killer.

• 9:07Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 9:07Bill Simmons?

  But Zemeckis has this whole...

• 9:09Chris Ryan?

  It even spoils her, her possession by Madison's.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  The affair, who Madison is, the fact that they look alike, like all of that just in the trailer.

• 9:17Bill Simmons?

  Did you see what he said about this, though?

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Zemeckis?

• 9:19Bill Simmons?

  This is like his thing. He's like, I want, I want people to enjoy the movie and the more they know what's coming, the less they're worrying about what's coming. I'm like, I feel the opposite.

• 9:28Chris Ryan?

  Don't be a coward, Bob. Come on. Come on, Bob Z. Scare the shit out of me. Also, this comes out at the tail end of an era in Hollywood movies, where people were pretty good about, more or less, keeping twists a secret. So Usual Suspects, Sixth Sense, The Matrix, you know, Fight Club, like, people were like, yeah, man, go to the movies, you're gonna really enjoy this, I won't tell you what happens. They're giving this away in like the two-minute trailer.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the fact that he is actually the killer and will try to kill again is not revealed in the trailer, but the fact that you should be suspicious of him for all of these reasons is. And if you go in without having seen that, that part of the real fun of the movie is that he seems like such a, such a lovely guy to share a life with. Like, he's a little gaslighty from the jump, I will say. Gaslighting is pretty persistent throughout, but he's like, you want to fool around? You know? I'm like, sure, you're Harrison Ford, so the answer would be yes.

• 10:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  You know, let's renovate, let's renovate this beautiful Vermont lake house. That's all great. So you have like the Madison aspect of it. You have, to your point about, is she crazy? Also, I think a stretch of the film where you shift from wondering, did she do it? Is Claire the killer?

• 10:34Chris Ryan?

  Well, there's like, there's a lot of like Claire lost time. She's got some memory.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  She has repressed something.

• 10:39Chris Ryan?

  A blank memory somewhere.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that's an enticing possibility for a stretch of the film. And so that part of it is, is very fun.

• 10:45Bill Simmons?

  Did you know what was gonna happen in this movie, Craig?

• 10:47Speaker 03

  No, I watched it with, with Liz and her two brothers. None of us watched the trailers. We had no idea what was going on. Truly did not know that the Harrison Ford twist was coming.

• 10:56Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  It was a real, I don't know what's gonna happen next for a while. Even up until the end in certain ways, it was pretty open ended.

• 11:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, cuz even at the end, you're just kinda like, okay, maybe, maybe he is like just trying to get out from under this affair.

• 11:08Bill Simmons?

  My daughter watched The Sixth Sense with her boyfriend who had never seen it.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Didn't know the twist?

• 11:13Bill Simmons?

  Couple of days ago and he didn't know the twist.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 11:15Bill Simmons?

  I'd moved and I told you how I watched Shawshank with Ben.

• 11:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 11:19Bill Simmons?

  And he didn't know anything and like multiple times was like, oh, man, he, I can't believe he killed himself. And then they opened the cell and he's not there. It's like, whoa!

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:28Bill Simmons?

  And he had a couple of those and I just get jealous of the people that don't know these famous twists are happening.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  It's great. I mean, we're out of that era entirely now, of course, because like a trailer drop is an eventized thing. Trailers literally come into our lives with a mini trailer at the beginning of the trailer. It is enticing to sell the movie by subverting people's expectation of Harrison Ford as hero. That makes sense as like a marketing gambit. However, it does, it is a demerit in terms of sapping some of the suspense from the first hour, 12 of the movie.

• 11:55Bill Simmons?

  Do you need to sell Harrison Ford in the year 2000?

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Not to me.

• 11:59Bill Simmons?

  That guy was like one of the biggest stars we had.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Well, his 80s is the best decade anyone has ever had and the 90s are pretty great, too.

• 12:04Chris Ryan?

  I wonder if there was, I mean, not specifically pressure from Ford, but since the entire pitch of the movie is like, here's a guy. His, one of his most famous roles is when he is falsely accused of killing his wife. We're gonna tip off that this is a different kinda role from him. And that this is a different, this is not The Fugitive again.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  There is a moment when he, you almost think he's gonna say like,

• 12:24Chris Ryan?

  I didn't kill my wife.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  I didn't kill my wife.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Well, we, we get the little wink when Warren says that, which, you know, feels very deliberate.

• 12:31Bill Simmons?

  You think Zemeckis was down with Derrick Henry not being used enough for the last month of the Oregon season?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  So what minute, what minute mark? What minute mark are we at?

• 12:38Chris Ryan?

  We're like around sixteen, seventeen.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  That's a longer than I thought it would for him to give me shit about the Ravens. I'm fine.

• 12:43Bill Simmons?

  I have another football analogy. My queen, Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:46Bill Simmons?

  Who's, I don't think has ever looked better. It's like this, her Dangerous Minds in the finals for her.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:52Bill Simmons?

  Little older, um.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  More than Baker Boys?

• 12:54Bill Simmons?

  Well, here's my case.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:57Bill Simmons?

  I, I wrote down like Brady and the Falcons, Pat's Super Bowl. Little older, more experience, unassailable, full confidence, peak of her powers, the fucking goat.

• 13:07Chris Ryan?

  I like that you just write that down.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 13:10Bill Simmons?

  Wasn't like you could argue.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Just in case you forgot.

• 13:12Bill Simmons?

  You could argue like Fabulous Baker Boys was like her oh four to oh seven range, but I, I want the Pats Falcons. This is it. This is her, this and to Jillian on her thirty-seventh birthday, just, she just knows. There's no lead that's safe. She can run any two-point conversion. She just knows what she's doing.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Um, she's flawless. The performance is great. She looks astonishing. We're in a wonderful fashion period for her as well. I, short of a Tarantino movie, like I'm struggling to think of how many other films you could put up here on the like foot stuff front. You know, we don't really need too many excuses. Obviously, a lot of the end of the film, the climax of the film is like, can she find the toe dexterity to pull the plug on?

• 13:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:53Bill Simmons?

  You think Tarantino is like, fuck, this is great. I love this.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  We're doing something special and important here, but even just like the toe and the,

• 14:00Bill Simmons?

  Texting Zemeckis.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  The little shard of glass, you know, we've got the Birkenstock shot when she slides off the rock. You really think that the fence cutting the wrists repeatedly at the beginning of the movie is gonna matter, and then it doesn't.

• 14:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, there's a lot, a lot of red herrings. A lot of red herrings.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:15Bill Simmons?

  Um, my wife made this point, cause Michelle Pfeiffer is so beautiful that even other women are like, wow, she looks awesome. And my wife was, the Good Son Moms in this.

• 14:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:25Bill Simmons?

  The lady from The Good Son who's holding the two kids, ah, let's, uh, Macaulay Culkin go. We haven't done The Good Son yet. It's coming.

• 14:32Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 14:33Bill Simmons?

  It's coming. When we do From Hell Month. And my wife was like, this lady's really pretty and Michelle Pfeiffer is just blowing her off the screen. It's like, and she was like, I would never want to be an actress in a Michelle Pfeiffer movie during this time, where you're just getting annihilated, just being, having coffee with her for three minutes.

• 14:51Chris Ryan?

  You're always second banana.

• 14:52Bill Simmons?

  Great run. So she'd been a little bit of a slump after Dangerous Minds. Up Close and Personal, To Jillian 37th Birthday, which is a great location movie. I highly recommend that.

• 15:03Chris Ryan?

  What's the location?

• 15:04Bill Simmons?

  Antucket. Just go, you want to spend some time in Antucket.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 15:06Bill Simmons?

  One Fine Day, a movie that I think all of us thought was gonna work and it just did it with Clooney.

• 15:10Chris Ryan?

  That's Clooney, right?

• 15:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. A Thousand Acres, Prince of Egypt, Deep End of the Ocean, which is sadly not good. Midsommer Night's Dream. And then The Story of Us, which was another one, that was basically about Rob Reiner's divorce. That one, her and Bruce Willis.

• 15:23Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:24Bill Simmons?

  Not a good hang, that movie. And she kind of needed this one, and this was a massive hit. And then just pairing her and Harrison Ford, it's like fucking Mad Libs of just, let's put two giant stars together. Chemistry wise, I thought like a nine and a half out of 10, 10 out of 10?

• 15:40Speaker 01

  I mean, you know how I feel about this. Harrison Ford has chemistry with a blade of grass. Harrison Ford has chemistry with anyone.

• 15:49Bill Simmons?

  Top five chemistry for Harrison Ford in movies?

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Well, you know, you know that I think McGillis, the longing, the yearning and witness, I think can't be matched.

• 15:57Bill Simmons?

  So that's still your number one?

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:59Chris Ryan?

  Who's the wife in Mosquito Coast?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Helen Mirren.

• 16:03Chris Ryan?

  Helen Mirren.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Because they reunited in 1923. And that, of course, is a, he's a bad guy, he's a bad guy in that movie. So it's not like this is the first time we've seen him be a bad guy.

• 16:12Chris Ryan?

  I'm trying to remember the...

• 16:14Bill Simmons?

  Kristen Scott Thomas in Random Hearts?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  I watched that movie a lot when I was younger.

• 16:18Bill Simmons?

  That movie sucked. I like Random Hearts.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  It's not my favorite Harrison Ford haircut, I will say, but he has chemistry with everyone.

• 16:25Bill Simmons?

  Brendan Scotchey, Presumed Innocent?

• 16:26Chris Ryan?

  Who's, who's Henry's wife?

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure. Yeah.

• 16:29Bill Simmons?

  Oh, regarding Henry, it's Annette Benning.

• 16:31Chris Ryan?

  Annette Benning, that's right.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  That's a great one.

• 16:32Bill Simmons?

  We'll be doing that during dramas that have now become comedies, but that's also on the schedule.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  He's got great chemistry with the Ritz crackers painting behind him in that movie.

• 16:40Bill Simmons?

  I wonder if-

• 16:41Speaker 01

  He's got chemistry with everyone.

• 16:41Bill Simmons?

  He would be the, like, a top five podcast for me.

• 16:45Chris Ryan?

  Harrison?

• 16:45Bill Simmons?

  Because I would ask questions like, alright.

• 16:47Chris Ryan?

  He's probably on the trail of that.

• 16:49Bill Simmons?

  You were every actress. Who did you have the best chemistry with?

• 16:50Chris Ryan?

  You could get Harrison Ford.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Well, he's like a famously legendary interview because for so long, he was so, you know, such a curmudgeon, right?

• 16:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  And now he's kind of in his, like, phase of actually engaging-

• 17:00Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  -in a more meta way with the fact that that was his interview persona for so long. Like, when he did Dial of Destiny and 1923 and Shrinking, kind of all at the same time, and was really out there, I have never felt so alive.

• 17:11Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  I have never felt so alive.

• 17:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm sure he's furious that Sam Elliott got this landman part.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  He's in, well-

• 17:17Bill Simmons?

  I couldn't have lay in a pool with some stripper?

• 17:20Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, he's in 1923, but obviously-

• 17:21Bill Simmons?

  I was right here.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Sheridan famously, like, reuses performers across many properties.

• 17:25Chris Ryan?

  He also, like, damaged Sam Elliott's hip on 1883, so it feels like this is payback for that. This is like, this is a call.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  It's been incorporated into the plot, you know?

• 17:33Bill Simmons?

  Much easier plot.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  You fall into the pool, you can't get out because your hip hurts.

• 17:37Bill Simmons?

  Listen, I say this very lightly and not in an aggressive way to you, especially, but this was the end of his extended 25-year prime, this movie.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  I agree with that.

• 17:45Bill Simmons?

  We move into a different phase of Harrison Ford. From 97 to 2000, Devil's Own, Air Force One, Six Days, Seven Nights, Random Hearts, What Lies Beneath, and Six Days, Seven Nights was a good movie that got completely overshadowed by all the stuff going on with Anne Hatch.

• 17:58Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 17:59Bill Simmons?

  But it's actually like a good movie.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:00Chris Ryan?

  That's the plane crash movie where, like, they're on a desert island?

• 18:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and they're together, yeah. But he's 57 when he filmed this, and now, this was the final stop. It was like John Cena turning heel.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 18:10Bill Simmons?

  No, in his prime.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Not the final stop, but sure.

• 18:12Bill Simmons?

  This was kind of a move. It's like, the last thing I haven't done is gone heel.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  There's a real lull after this, for sure. And then I think he makes some good movies in the early 10s, you know, like-

• 18:23Bill Simmons?

  But he's not, he's not like the-

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Now he's back.

• 18:25Bill Simmons?

  Harrison Ford is the fugitive, I'm going.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, we get, like, Force Awakens and 15, Blade Runner.

• 18:31Chris Ryan?

  What's like a 2000s movie, like, K-19?

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, Widowmaker's like right, right on the heels of this.

• 18:34Chris Ryan?

  Indiana Jones 4 is good. I will defend that movie.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Crystal Skull is good?

• 18:38Chris Ryan?

  Crystal Skull's not that bad.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  I don't think it's bad either. I actually don't think it's bad, but good is-

• 18:43Chris Ryan?

  The first hour is great.

• 18:44Bill Simmons?

  What is, that's not the one that came out a couple of years ago.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  No, Dial of Destiny, but that's good. I think Dial of Destiny is good.

• 18:50Chris Ryan?

  I think Dial of Destiny is good?

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Yes, I have a take on this that I feel strongly about.

• 18:53Chris Ryan?

  Crystal Skull is Spielberg still, cooking.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  For the first hour of that movie.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Dial of Destiny is man goal.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's good.

• 18:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's not bad.

• 18:59Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  None of them are bad, even the things that are bad about them are fun.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Shia was well cast. I would make that argument as well.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Dial of Destiny is good because it's actually like, what is it like if you are the hero of your world to get old? It's like, we're not pretending that Indy isn't old in that movie. That's actually interesting. It's a story about legacy. You don't like that?

• 19:16Speaker 03

  He was 80.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  And he's still got it, man. When he took his shirt off, he looked fucking great. We went back to the elbow kiss. Wonderful.

• 19:22Speaker 03

  He was 80. That's my problem with that movie.

• 19:23Bill Simmons?

  Did you have a take on the mailbag question we got about the Harrison Ford body odor category for Indiana Jones, like just stinking?

• 19:32Speaker 03

  I don't think now I would have a problem with that.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  I don't have, I have like.

• 19:34Bill Simmons?

  You probably would be fine, right?

• 19:35Chris Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  So this gets at a, I like, Chris has heard me talk about, I always wonder when there's like a showman's on Survivor, when people are fucking on Survivor. I'm like, I can't really think of anything less appealing than.

• 19:44Bill Simmons?

  The hygiene gets.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, exploring each other's bodies when you smell that much, but maybe you just go nose blind. Yeah. I, there's not a scenario where I wouldn't want to fuck Harrison Ford.

• 19:52Bill Simmons?

  I think you go nose blind.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  You can't present me with one. Sorry.

• 19:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think you go nose blind.

• 19:56Chris Ryan?

  Also, it's not like Marion in Raiders is getting like spa days. You know what I mean? She's also out there.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:01Chris Ryan?

  She's, she's in the, the markets in Morocco or whatever. Yeah.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Snuggling up in a cot together. Having a great time.

• 20:07Bill Simmons?

  Chris, did you buy evil Harrison Ford?

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Oh, of course.

• 20:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I mean, I think he does a lot of really, the, the stuff I like the most in this movie are the subtle tips.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:15Chris Ryan?

  Towards his evil throughout the film. So like his obsession with his dad.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:20Chris Ryan?

  His muttering, his like obsession with like this big paper he's presenting. Uh, I, I like, I like all that stuff. And then his heel turn at the end, especially the bathtub scene, the bathroom scene is really great.

• 20:33Bill Simmons?

  I mean, his legal defense would have been, I'm just a stick man. What do you want from me?

• 20:38Speaker 01

  What do you want?

• 20:38Bill Simmons?

  Man's gotta get what a man's gotta get. I'm sorry.

• 20:41Chris Ryan?

  Got a lot of questions about law enforcement in the greater Vermont area.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Me too. I have some questions about the state of Madison's missing person case throughout this movie. But on that like subtle clues front, you know, even the, the opening shot that we get, like our introduction to Norman, not the opening shot of the film, but the first time we see him is his hand, you know, Harrison Ford hand acting. Always something worth talking about. Nothing will ever top later on, but this is a great installment in the Harrison Ford hand acting, the bloody hands on the tub edge in particular. But like his hand reaching around a throat is opening. Oh, oh my God. Yeah. The hands of a carpenter, put to good work in many respects throughout the decades. Indeed. Indeed. My Jesus.

• 21:16Bill Simmons?

  Jack Black, number one hand actor?

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Harrison Ford's hand acting is remarkable. If you're thinking about it, you can't unsee it. Once you know to look for it, it's everywhere. And so like the first thing we see with Norman is he's like reaching around. It ends up being a loving embrace, but it's a threat, really threatening gesture if you look at it. In hindsight, maybe, I mean, maybe fun, depending on, you know, what two consenting adults are up to on a given evening.

• 21:36Bill Simmons?

  Can't judge.

• 21:37Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Think we can keep up with that.

• 21:40Bill Simmons?

  As long as there's a safe word.

• 21:43Bill Simmons?

  I love Harrison Ford. I would take his entire library on a desert island over, I think, just about any other actor. I think it's a great question. Hanks is in there.

• 21:53Chris Ryan?

  Denzel.

• 21:54Bill Simmons?

  Denzel Stallone.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Cruise.

• 21:56Bill Simmons?

  Cruise. Cruise probably wins this, but.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  I would pick Harrison Ford.

• 22:00Bill Simmons?

  This would be a good ringer bracket.

• 22:02Chris Ryan?

  Desert Island.

• 22:03Bill Simmons?

  You only get the one person's filmography. Who are you taking?

• 22:07Speaker 01

  There's no way I'm not picking Harrison Ford because Witness is one of my favorites. And then I get Star Wars and Indy, like, and Blade Runner? Come on.

• 22:14Chris Ryan?

  What's like.

• 22:14Bill Simmons?

  John would be like, Paul Dano.

• 22:17Chris Ryan?

  What is the most like Wichita State out there Cinderella one for this bracket?

• 22:22Bill Simmons?

  For that bracket?

• 22:23Chris Ryan?

  Like is it?

• 22:23Bill Simmons?

  Like Joey Pants.

• 22:24Chris Ryan?

  Is it like Liam Neeson?

• 22:25Bill Simmons?

  Joey Pants is a great one.

• 22:26Chris Ryan?

  Cause you get Minion Run, you get The Matrix.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like the Robert Horry. They have all the titles, but they're just side characters.

• 22:32Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, Rogan, considering like he was even, he's in movies in 03, like he's in, uh, I was just, I just saw him in something in 03 or 04. He's the cameraman.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, Forty Old Virgin, he's in.

• 22:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Forty Old Virgin.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Is that one of those?

• 22:47Chris Ryan?

  But you also can get Steve Jobs in there, right? Like with, with Rogan, that's right.

• 22:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Rogan's got, I mean, if you go just 21st century, interesting one. We'll have to revisit that. Uh, this movie is a murderer's row of graduated that guys and that gals. Like the good son mom, Wendy Creason. Diana Scarwood from my favorite movie Inside Moves that C.R. won't acknowledge.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  It's Anchorman, by the way. He's a cameraman in Anchorman.

• 23:11Bill Simmons?

  Anchorman, that's what it was. That's where I saw it. Uh, Joe Mooney. Terminator two, like an ultimate that guy performance by Joe Mooney. One of the all timers.

• 23:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, man, I that you you still haven't mentioned my my that guy.

• 23:24Bill Simmons?

  Well.

• 23:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:25Bill Simmons?

  Who's your that guy?

• 23:26Chris Ryan?

  Uh, the guy plays Stan, Ray Baker, I think his name is, who's the guy who sells Quaid, the package in Total Recall.

• 23:33Bill Simmons?

  Not even, oh, that guy.

• 23:35Chris Ryan?

  He's like, sells him the Mars package.

• 23:36Bill Simmons?

  That's his name?

• 23:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:37Bill Simmons?

  So that you stepped on that guy, but I I guess it was justified because we didn't mention James Reamar yet.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:43Bill Simmons?

  James Reamar?

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Richard from Sex and the City.

• 23:46Chris Ryan?

  I I always said James Raymar.

• 23:48Bill Simmons?

  Walk by him, I would say at least 20 times in my neighborhood.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:52Bill Simmons?

  We live in the same neighborhood and I've just, I almost don't want to spoil it. I don't want to say anything to him.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  You don't want to tell him about this podcast? No?

• 24:00Bill Simmons?

  Just like, you know, man, Gans, I think is the best action movie villain of all time.

• 24:05Chris Ryan?

  Who are you more nervous to talk to? Raymar or Peyton Pritchard?

• 24:10Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Raymar?

• 24:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:12Bill Simmons?

  I mean, over athlete in their twenties? No, Raymar, I think is the number one that guy I would be, I would be like.

• 24:18Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 24:19Bill Simmons?

  Not nervous to talk to, but I would be really worried about the approach.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  You should leave a like a gift basket on his porch, just like Claire does.

• 24:26Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  In this movie and then watch him through binoculars, very sloppily.

• 24:30Bill Simmons?

  That's what I'm gonna do.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  And then see, does he discard the flowers that keep the wine?

• 24:36Bill Simmons?

  Like that. Zemeckis made this movie during the long break in Castaway. The only rewatchable is that somebody soloed, which was me during five weeks in the COVID.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  All timer, all time move by you.

• 24:49Bill Simmons?

  Hanks had to lose weight and grow a beard. Zemeckis used the same crew and they filmed All of What Lies Beneath and then went back and finished Castaway. What a run.

• 24:56Chris Ryan?

  And also.

• 24:57Bill Simmons?

  Fucking heat check.

• 24:57Chris Ryan?

  The thing that's amazing is it's not like this was an easy shoot.

• 25:00Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 25:01Chris Ryan?

  They reconstructed a house in Los Angeles sound stages to do the interiors. Like this was a significant undertaking and has a lot of visual effects.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Water shooting, filming with water, never easy. What do you think Wilson was doing while Hanks was growing a beard and shedding weight?

• 25:16Bill Simmons?

  They're just.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  What was Wilson doing during that?

• 25:18Bill Simmons?

  The prop person was just bringing in more Wilson's feelings. Is this too over the top?

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Sweet Wilson.

• 25:22Bill Simmons?

  Director standings, he moves into sole possession of fourth place.

• 25:27Chris Ryan?

  Interesting. So back to future one and two, Flight, this.

• 25:31Bill Simmons?

  Gump, Castaway.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:33Chris Ryan?

  What's his early movie?

• 25:35Bill Simmons?

  He has Used Cars, I think, that we could do. There's a couple later. So Spielberg and Scott are at nine. Mann and Scorsese are eight. Fincher and Reiner are seven. Simek is six. That's where we are right now. Ridley Scott and De Palma at five.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 25:51Bill Simmons?

  There's some, there's some ones that are probably gonna bump up. There's some on the list that the Carantino is probably gonna start rising pretty soon.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Are you gonna finally do Blade Runner and move Ridley Scott up?

• 26:03Chris Ryan?

  I wonder if Denis Villeneuve will have any action.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  We'll just stay and do it right after this.

• 26:05Bill Simmons?

  I'll call, uh, I'll call Ted and see when Blade Runner is gonna be on. I'll text him later. Movie's written by Clark Gregg.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  This is like...

• 26:16Bill Simmons?

  And who's an actor?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Who is, who's an actor?

• 26:19Bill Simmons?

  Who's, I'm just saying he's an actor.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  He's Agent Phil Coulson in the MCU. This is crazy. Then he wrote this screenplay, rewrote this screenplay.

• 26:24Chris Ryan?

  He might as well be like he plays Galadriel, you know, like he doesn't know.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  He definitely doesn't know who Galadriel is.

• 26:29Bill Simmons?

  Did he stop Velcro?

• 26:33Speaker 01

  You're the best. Um, he's, has a very crucial showdown with Loki at one point. Um, the fact that Agent Phil Coulson, an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., who is in the MCU.

• 26:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Rewrote this script, right? Rewrote it.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  I, I just don't know how to wrap my mind around this.

• 26:53Chris Ryan?

  It's really strange. It's strange that he's never, has he done other stuff other than this?

• 26:57Speaker 01

  He has two other movies that he has done. He has the screenplay credits for, uh, Choke in 2008 and Trust Me in 2013.

• 27:08Bill Simmons?

  I saw that movie.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  And this.

• 27:10Chris Ryan?

  How about that?

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, uh, according to a recent article from CBR.com, Clark Gregg has said that he intends to return to the What Lies Beneath universe.

• 27:18Chris Ryan?

  Does he really?

• 27:19Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's a universe now.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  I don't know what that means. Do we think we're gonna get like a Caitlyn story?

• 27:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  You know, something like that?

• 27:26Bill Simmons?

  One thing I wanted to mention about the universe. The, uh, just being located in Vermont.

• 27:31Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm. It's gorgeous.

• 27:32Bill Simmons?

  And how much great Hollywood stuff happens in Vermont. And it's also like, all bets are off in Vermont, New Hampshire.

• 27:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:38Bill Simmons?

  It's where like in The Sopranos when Vito gets outed and he's just like, he's up there with Johnny Cakes in Vermont or New Hampshire.

• 27:45Chris Ryan?

  It's where Diane Keaton bumps into Sam Shepard being a veterinarian in Baby Boom.

• 27:50Bill Simmons?

  You just never know what's gonna happen up there. There's no cops. Funny Farm, I think is, was it up there? But it's always like upstate New York, New Hampshire.

• 27:58Chris Ryan?

  New England is a great.

• 27:59Bill Simmons?

  Vermont, it's just great. It's remote, it always feels safe, but it's kinda not.

• 28:03Chris Ryan?

  I, I can't think of a better movie with Lake Champlain in the background.

• 28:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  It's beautiful.

• 28:09Bill Simmons?

  The original story was written by Sarah Koenochian.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Documentarian.

• 28:13Bill Simmons?

  Inspired by a real paranormal experience she had, obviously, in my wheelhouse.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  You love this.

• 28:20Bill Simmons?

  Our house is fine. The ghosts love us now.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  You're getting along with the ghosts.

• 28:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they've, they accept us now.

• 28:25Chris Ryan?

  What do you mean? This house has no ghosts anymore? Or you have?

• 28:28Speaker 01

  No, they're here still.

• 28:29Bill Simmons?

  They're here, they're good with us.

• 28:31Chris Ryan?

  Give me a little bit of, little color on that. So like, how, how would you say you guys are?

• 28:36Bill Simmons?

  Nothing happened except went away for a couple of weeks in the summer.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:40Bill Simmons?

  And came back and like a frame fell over like within 20 minutes of us being home.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  As a way to say we're glad you're back, you think? Like a way to reach out and communicate?

• 28:50Bill Simmons?

  We like when you're around.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:52Bill Simmons?

  That's how, that's how I interpreted it.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Okay, interesting.

• 28:55Bill Simmons?

  Third floor, the, the, there's a door that just, sometimes it's open, sometimes it's shut, nobody touches it.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Big part of the plot of this movie.

• 29:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  So, has anybody like written a message to you in the steam and a mirror?

• 29:08Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 29:09Bill Simmons?

  See, that would, that would actually freak me out.

• 29:10Chris Ryan?

  That would freak me out too.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:12Chris Ryan?

  Are you open to having a paranormal investigator come over and interrogate?

• 29:16Bill Simmons?

  No, cause I don't think the ghosts would like that. I want the ghosts to like us.

• 29:18Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 29:19Bill Simmons?

  I think that like putting them on display, I don't think works. You wanna be like? We acknowledge they're there. They like us.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  Why you?

• 29:28Speaker 01

  No, I just think, so this is one of my, I can't decide if this is like the, the hot take about the movie. I have another hottest take, but like the hot take about the movie is if you stay in a haunted house that long, you deserve to maybe die. Or if a what, what's aged the worst is just like how long Claire stays around after all of these horrible things are happening.

• 29:45Bill Simmons?

  She should have left pretty early.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of disqualifying, but I think what, what, when I'm bumping on with what you're saying, I like that you guys are cohabitating peacefully. I think you're afraid of the ghost still and you're pretending you're not because the fact that you're really like you're,

• 29:56Bill Simmons?

  No, no. Go up and get dog food up there all the time.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Yeah?

• 29:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  You don't want to piss off the ghost and that means that you're still living in fear.

• 30:03Speaker 03

  And what's the, the sort of household feeling on it? Like wife, son?

• 30:08Bill Simmons?

  Zoe's in the worst spot with it because she had a dream once that a witch was clawing at her and woke up and had scratch marks on her arm, but she might've done it herself.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Did she have any like skin under her fingernails?

• 30:18Bill Simmons?

  I probably should have led with that.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  I mean, that's bad.

• 30:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that wasn't great.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  That's bad.

• 30:23Bill Simmons?

  She's like, we have a witch. I'm like, nah, we don't know.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  A witch would be cool. Is it the ghost of a witch or like a witch who is just like, you know?

• 30:32Bill Simmons?

  See, 2026, we're really bringing it on the rewatch. We'll take it up another level.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  It could go in any direction.

• 30:36Bill Simmons?

  A hundred million dollar budget for What Lies Beneath.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Which is.

• 30:40Bill Simmons?

  It made 291 million dollars.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:43Bill Simmons?

  10th biggest film of 2000. New category. The Horlback Century Club.

• 30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:49Bill Simmons?

  So one of our listeners said that we have to tie everything to 100 minutes. This movie, Craig, 130 minutes. So what, what is it on the scale? Is it, it's, it's not 30 minutes too long, is it?

• 31:01Speaker 03

  No, it's probably 15 though. This, this probably could be a 155'er, I think is the right move. There is a, it, it's, the, the first hour is definitely a little slow. I have to imagine with the rewatch even, knowing what's coming, probably feels like it takes quite a while to get there. There's a lot of like, she looks through the binoculars three more times and she probably needs to. It is a little slow for a while.

• 31:21Chris Ryan?

  It's also a tough movie to, you have to watch it. You have to watch like all the little clues.

• 31:27Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 31:28Chris Ryan?

  All the little camera moves. It demands a lot of attention. There's a lot of sequences without dialogue. And so it's a tough movie to be like, I'm going to go get a chocolate chip cookie and come back and I'll know what's going on.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  I give it a minus 15.

• 31:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, I'm wondering, do we use decimals or is it just straight digits?

• 31:44Chris Ryan?

  I was wondering if we were gonna create our own metric, like, how many Horlebeks do you want to give this movie? Plus or minus 10 Craig's.

• 31:50Bill Simmons?

  So it's a...

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Custom metric.

• 31:52Bill Simmons?

  So he's minus, it's like a minus 14.7?

• 31:54Speaker 03

  Something like that.

• 31:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  I'll keep track and we'll see at the end of the year which is the biggest number, yeah.

• 31:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I like the Horlebek scale. I agree with you. I think like about 154 range is probably...

• 32:04Speaker 01

  But do you agree that it should be removed from the front of the movie? Because I would pause it, be curious when you re-watch it, what you actually think of this because the end is so suspenseful when you're watching it for the first time. Once you know what's coming, I will say...

• 32:18Bill Simmons?

  I would tighten it a little bit. Yeah, I agree.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, like 20 minutes of slowly walking down the steps and like stopping in places in the bridge.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Everything is very deliberate.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  It's too, a touch too long once you know the rest of it.

• 32:28Chris Ryan?

  There's a couple of things that happen where you're like, you could just... Like, did she even need a, like, there's a couple of things, like, if you're gonna dive in to get the jewelry box.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:37Chris Ryan?

  Like, just open, like, we don't need to go on a long trip to Adamant to get the key, you know what I mean?

• 32:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Good, good call, CR. That's why you're the best.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  But we get to see a charming village.

• 32:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 32:48Bill Simmons?

  Another new category, watch party. Best setting for a watch re-watch. I'm only gonna give all of these once, but afterwards will be much faster. So the nominees are first date, date night, after you've been dating for a while or you're married.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 33:01Bill Simmons?

  Kids, in-laws, safe scary, family hang, proxy vacation, theater, airplane, solo. That's CR's category for hardcore. Peanut gallery, ladies' night, pre-game or 5 o'clocker. This is safe scary, obviously. This is...

• 33:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:16Bill Simmons?

  You can...

• 33:16Chris Ryan?

  Kids can watch this.

• 33:17Bill Simmons?

  You can be at your girlfriend's house when you're visiting her in college and it's like, what should we watch? And it's like, ah, we could probably watch What Lies Beneath, there's nothing bad.

• 33:24Chris Ryan?

  Gotta say, I do think it has some late summer vacation vibes.

• 33:29Bill Simmons?

  Oh, like a...

• 33:29Chris Ryan?

  Like, last two days at the vacation.

• 33:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:32Chris Ryan?

  Go back, but before you go back home and...

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:34Chris Ryan?

  Any body of water nearby, it helps, yeah.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like that. There's a boat.

• 33:38Bill Simmons?

  Bad news, Roger Ebert, two stars.

• 33:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:43Bill Simmons?

  Uh, he said it milks the genuine skills of its actor and director for more than it deserves. It runs off the rail in the ending, more laughable than scary.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:52Bill Simmons?

  He uses the phrase morass of absurdity at one point.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Ah, man. Poet. Poet. He's not alone in, in his opinion of this movie. This is not exactly a, a critically adored. Forty percent something rotten. Forty-nine percent on the old RT, I believe.

• 34:07Bill Simmons?

  Sad day, I remember where I took my wife, my future wife, to see this movie. And I remember where we saw it and it was fine.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:14Bill Simmons?

  But I, I think as the years have passed, I think it's become a better hang.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:18Bill Simmons?

  It's a really good throw it on movie.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 34:21Bill Simmons?

  You can just kind of be on as you're doing something else. It's just pleasant, pleasant fun hang. Taking a break and we do most rewatchable scene. This episode is brought to you by Viori. All right, let's talk about a category we appreciate. Clothes that stay in the rotation. Viori earned that spot. Their core shorts are good for workouts, travel day, weekend, whatever. And the Strato Tech T ridiculously soft. It's the kind of gear you keep reaching for because it's comfortable while still looking put together. Get 20% off your first purchase at Viori.com/rewatchables and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to you by Trivia.

• 35:05Bill Simmons?

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• 35:39Bill Simmons?

  All right, I'm gonna throw some most rewatchable scenes at you. The first 25 minutes are tough.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:45Bill Simmons?

  Where it's a lot of like setup, setup, setup.

• 35:49Bill Simmons?

  It's really the dinner double date.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  That's your first rewatchable scene?

• 35:53Bill Simmons?

  Well, you could pick any small ones, like binoculars, jump scare. I'm just kinda moving us along.

• 35:58Chris Ryan?

  Here's the thing, the first time through, the binoculars, the jump scare through the fence, all very cool.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:04Chris Ryan?

  Multiple times through, you're like, I know the furies are like a complete red herring. So the first half hour of this movie is kinda for nothing.

• 36:12Bill Simmons?

  I feel like you could start this 25 minutes in and you're okay.

• 36:14Chris Ryan?

  But you're right, the dinner scene is awesome.

• 36:17Bill Simmons?

  I love double dates where we're just getting info and we're picking apart couples and I'm getting little clues.

• 36:23Chris Ryan?

  The cross talk is great.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're really straining.

• 36:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  Like when you first watched it, or when you rewatch it, do you, do you listen to the men or the women?

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Well, this is an interesting litmus test, isn't it?

• 36:35Chris Ryan?

  I listen to the women.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  I listen to the men!

• 36:37Chris Ryan?

  As an ally, yeah.

• 36:38Bill Simmons?

  I listen to whoever Michelle Pfeiffer is talking to.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Well, she's talking to Elena, so you're listening to the women, I'm listening to, I'm hanging on Harrison Ford's every word.

• 36:45Chris Ryan?

  But it's kind of amazing because.

• 36:46Bill Simmons?

  That's a really good scene.

• 36:47Chris Ryan?

  Stan gives away the movie because he's like, did you hear about Bo whatever?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, Bo Flannan cardio.

• 36:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and he's like, wow, they really don't play with those things anymore, do they, you know?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  And he seems nervous. Norman seems a little nervous. The only thing before that that I think you have to mention, unless we're gonna just talk about all the sex stuff later, is Claire and Norman trying to like, compete with the fur, the furies fucking, that's memorable and rewatchable.

• 37:12Chris Ryan?

  That's fair.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  I don't see a way that that's not rewatchable. Have you, do you notice when you revisit that, that Harrison Ford's hands are the same size as the entire?

• 37:20Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Keyboard?

• 37:21Chris Ryan?

  Didn't notice that.

• 37:21Bill Simmons?

  Didn't pick that up that time.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Keep an eye out, next time you look. How about the way that when he leans back forward and he's like, do some more of that Norman's, the genius stuff, Michelle Pfeiffer's leg is on his shoulder, you know what he's doing down there?

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Very memorable.

• 37:35Bill Simmons?

  And he regrets seeing her.

• 37:37Chris Ryan?

  I'm fine with it.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Very rewatchable.

• 37:38Chris Ryan?

  Body with her for a while.

• 37:44Bill Simmons?

  I've been watching Game of Thrones in the sauna.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  I have so many questions about it. I mean, I'm thrilled you're revisiting.

• 37:48Bill Simmons?

  I feel like it could be our next Ringer rewatch pod.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  We've done that before.

• 37:53Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 37:54Bill Simmons?

  No, same IP. Same IP, just me in a sauna going, whoa!

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:00Bill Simmons?

  Red Wedding! And then the pod's over.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  That would be great. I think your recap where you don't know a single character's name would be really, like, would have a lot of utility for people. The blonde one!

• 38:09Bill Simmons?

  In the sauna, I know the names now because I'm so hot, I actually have to concentrate.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 38:15Bill Simmons?

  So it's like, oh, Sansa.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Look at this guy!

• 38:19Bill Simmons?

  It's King Robert Baratheon.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Bobby B. Yeah.

• 38:22Bill Simmons?

  Bobby B.'s in there.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  Hit him with a hammer. Look at you!

• 38:24Bill Simmons?

  Hey, Joffrey!

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Oh my god, this guy.

• 38:27Bill Simmons?

  I gotta say, really fun getting back together with the gang.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a great show. I mean, disastrous ending, obviously.

• 38:31Chris Ryan?

  Are you gonna watch the new one?

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Disastrous.

• 38:33Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's why I'm kinda setting this up to maybe keep going.

• 38:36Chris Ryan?

  Well, the new one's set before this.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it starts in a week and a half.

• 38:39Bill Simmons?

  No, 1100s?

• 38:40Chris Ryan?

  Uh, yeah. Yeah, Dark Ages.

• 38:43Bill Simmons?

  Joanna didn't know that joke.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  I know.

• 38:46Bill Simmons?

  I think she seriously thought I thought it was in the 1300s.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Well, on some level, you do seriously think that, so.

• 38:51Bill Simmons?

  You don't know that it's not.

• 38:54Bill Simmons?

  Next rewatch of a scene, Claire finds a full bathtub in a steamy bathroom and a waterlogged ghost in the reflection. This is arguably a, I'm outta here, stay in a hotel from now on.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  I would.

• 39:05Bill Simmons?

  Moment.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  I would simply leave. Yeah.

• 39:07Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if I'm back in the house after this.

• 39:09Chris Ryan?

  But I do like the anxiety of both the marriage and the renovation project that they seem to have undertaken with this house of being like, we just, I'm fucking not leaving this place, okay? Like, I've been rebuilding it.

• 39:23Bill Simmons?

  We've come this far.

• 39:23Chris Ryan?

  For 10 years. You know, this is Norman's dad's place, but we gutted it, we got it all.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  The DuPont chair. It's all, actually, I think that's actually kind of one of the weird things about rewatching the movie is realizing how much of the key plot is really about the last year.

• 39:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  This year of key events in our lives, obviously the car crash, everything with Madison, the DuPont chair, but it does make me wonder, have they done all of the renovations in that span of time?

• 39:44Bill Simmons?

  Some amnesia in there.

• 39:45Chris Ryan?

  They mentioned it during the dinner, I can't remember, but they're like, that's his joke, is like, my dad is haunting us because he's so mad at what we did to the house. Yeah.

• 39:53Bill Simmons?

  We could've thrown in a scene with a kid that went to college being like, my mom's been fucking batshit for like a year.

• 40:00Chris Ryan?

  I wanna get to Caitlin in a second.

• 40:01Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Uh, next one.

• 40:05Bill Simmons?

  The Ouija board scene.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  No question. This is a great one.

• 40:08Bill Simmons?

  I have multiple things I wrote down here, including. Has there ever been a bad Ouija board scene?

• 40:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:13Bill Simmons?

  Ever? There has been.

• 40:16Chris Ryan?

  Uh, no, no. Is there a bad Ouija board scene? No.

• 40:19Bill Simmons?

  I don't ever remember watching a movie in any capacity or a TV show or anything where they're like, let's bring out the Ouija board. It always works. I'm always like, how can you guys do this?

• 40:30Chris Ryan?

  Have you ever done a Ouija board?

• 40:31Bill Simmons?

  I would never.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 40:33Bill Simmons?

  Ever, ever do that.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  When I was a kid.

• 40:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you like pretend you say you put, light some candles, you sit in a circle.

• 40:38Bill Simmons?

  Never do that.

• 40:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, we used them in like middle school and high school and stuff.

• 40:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cause you don't know any better. If you're a fucking adult using Ouija board, like what are you doing?

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Well, and look what happened. The lights flickered, the candle went out, and then Cooper. Great Cooper action in this scene in particular. I have some notes for Cooper, cause like he obviously can sense that things are amiss. He won't go into his favorite spot of water to get his favorite ball anymore. But he hasn't like totally turned heel and abandoned his loyalty to Norman. But when he busts into the bathroom here, scares the shit out of them, it's high comedy.

• 41:08Chris Ryan?

  Like, I mean, I know you guys love dogs, but like, I don't think he's making it.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  They're the most intuitive animals, they're the most intuitive creatures.

• 41:13Chris Ryan?

  He doesn't understand the depths of Norman's depravity.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Well.

• 41:16Bill Simmons?

  Can I break the tiebreaker here? I wrote down Cooper the dog just crushing it.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you. Bill gets it and always has.

• 41:24Bill Simmons?

  I thought it was a great performance by him. He seemed like a great dog. I thought he could have been a little more loyal.

• 41:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:30Bill Simmons?

  In a couple of spots, but.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  But like when he barks, you know, when we see the muddy footprints and we worry it's gonna be Warren and then it's Norman, cause they're late to dinner. Like Cooper, on some level, he sensed something was amiss.

• 41:40Bill Simmons?

  Well, this leads right into her screaming at my guy, James Remar, at the party, which was just a good payoff for the red herring.

• 41:47Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:48Bill Simmons?

  My wife's, what does he say? My wife's right here.

• 41:51Chris Ryan?

  I didn't kill my wife.

• 41:52Bill Simmons?

  I didn't kill my wife.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Way too calm.

• 41:54Bill Simmons?

  She's right here.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Way too calm. Definitely it's some, one of my unanswerable questions is that how many years into the future does Warren kill Mary? Because for sure he kills her.

• 42:01Chris Ryan?

  Uh, he just leaves her for a student.

• 42:05Bill Simmons?

  Or maybe both.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Not mutually exclusive.

• 42:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's true.

• 42:07Bill Simmons?

  He might have gone same game parlay. Tried to get both of those in there.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 42:14Bill Simmons?

  Old meddling lady at the party and to her realizing, Michelle Pfeiffer realizing who M E F, Madison Elizabeth Frank was.

• 42:23Chris Ryan?

  But also, like, that's the point where she's starting to realize, like, oh, there's a huge chunk of my life that I don't remember. Like, this, the car accident that I think is fine, that everybody else is so alarmed about, and having this freak out at the party.

• 42:36Bill Simmons?

  That's how I, that's how I feel about all the podcasts I did in 2020.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  They're gone.

• 42:40Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of 2021.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  They're gone.

• 42:41Bill Simmons?

  I listen to them now, it's like somebody else did them.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Have you ever had a moment where, like, you're prone over a desk, doing whatever you might be doing, and you look back, a gust of wind catches your ear, and then in the mirror you see yourself, pottin' about Alex Bregman?

• 42:56Bill Simmons?

  It might be happening soon.

• 42:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Bill Simmons?

  It's like, oh, man, I did Saturday Night Fever with Jimmy Kimmel. This is gonna be good.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  How do you feel about red apples and lit candles near your genitals?

• 43:09Bill Simmons?

  That, I didn't like the lit candles. I did not like that. You know what I did like? My next rewatchable scene, Possess Claire.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  This is the best.

• 43:16Bill Simmons?

  All caps, yes, this is my most rewatchable scene.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  No question.

• 43:19Bill Simmons?

  Pfeiffer just, just breaking it out, you know, it's like...

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Spreading the legs.

• 43:25Bill Simmons?

  I'll throw them in the low 90s, but if you don't think I can still get to 101, watch this.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  It is 104.

• 43:31Chris Ryan?

  It is hard, because it's like where she basically is like, I could have done Basic Instinct, you know, like, I have this in my bag.

• 43:38Bill Simmons?

  She had the side.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:39Bill Simmons?

  It was the side she never really, she, Fabulous Baker Boy is probably the closest, A Little in Scarface, um, Dangerous Minds, I didn't want to go near there, and that's the one where they really could have, they cut out all the Andy Garcia stuff in that movie. But yeah, she never really, she always wanted to kind of levitate above it. I respect it.

• 43:57Chris Ryan?

  It's so great how long Norm's just like, I'm kind of into this. You know what I mean? Like, for like, the, it's really, really, really, it takes her for a while.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  I mean, who can blame him, right? Like, the apple, the, the rough bite of the apple, very weird, very funny, obviously disarming, but when she sits on the step, when she's waiting in the step of the office with the candle in front of her and opens her legs, I mean, come on, his expression there is absolutely fucking priceless.

• 44:19Chris Ryan?

  This is amazing.

• 44:21Bill Simmons?

  I guess Catwoman was probably the time she turned it on the most, right?

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, Catwoman is very sexy role.

• 44:27Bill Simmons?

  You've seen that clip where she uses the whip and hits the five things all in sequence, and then the crew starts applauding?

• 44:34Chris Ryan?

  For the, for the Batman movie, no.

• 44:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like, it's one of those, like, a camera far away.

• 44:38Chris Ryan?

  Incredible.

• 44:38Bill Simmons?

  And she's like, alright, action. And she's like.

• 44:41Chris Ryan?

  And everybody goes nuts.

• 44:42Bill Simmons?

  And everyone's like.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  I mean, who can blame them? What do you think she whispers into his ear? Cause there's like, I timed it, it's like 3.4 seconds. I'm not sure how quick I was on the trigger that we don't hear.

• 44:52Chris Ryan?

  There isn't like, any speculation about this. I looked for this online and I couldn't find any.

• 44:56Bill Simmons?

  Not on the subtitles either.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Do you think she whispered something very, very, very sexy? Or just like.

• 45:01Bill Simmons?

  Naughty, like X rated.

• 45:03Chris Ryan?

  Cause he's getting pretty fired up.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:05Bill Simmons?

  A term that we've never heard of.

• 45:07Chris Ryan?

  Claire has that dress just in the back of the closet, or, or is that something she purchased special, or?

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Hmm, I think she has it around, you know, they're clearly like, they have some like, galas, nights in the town. So in this, this stretch where, you know, we are obviously gonna see the, the flash of green, this, that's like the most iconic moment from the movie, right? I mean, I guess you could say some of the bathtub reflections and stuff like that, but, you know, who? Glowing green eyes, your wife. That's like, whether or not you've seen the film, you've seen that moment, for sure.

• 45:35Bill Simmons?

  True.

• 45:37Bill Simmons?

  Just a short one, but broken Claire, jumping right into the lake. It's good, I like the way it shot, possible great Chuck Gordo for CR. Claire finds the buried chest.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 45:48Bill Simmons?

  Leading into semi-crying, confessing Harrison Ford, which I'm just, sorry Mal, I'm giving him the Ruffalo Hannah Rubin, a partridge over acting word.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  What?

• 45:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't think.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  It's such a subtle restraint performance.

• 45:58Bill Simmons?

  Cryer, I thought it was kinda bad.

• 46:00Chris Ryan?

  He does a good, like, the prayer hands thing is good, but yeah, like what he's.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  What should I have done? Should I sacrifice everything, our marriage, my work that I spent my whole life over? I was compelled.

• 46:14Bill Simmons?

  Claire redials 411.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:16Bill Simmons?

  And evil Harrison Ford is here. And he has some weird drug I've never heard of that paralyzes you for six minutes.

• 46:22Chris Ryan?

  Comes up earlier in the movie.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  Chekhov's paralytic agent, right? From earlier in the movie, when she goes to the lab and they're like, yeah, somewhere between five to three seconds. And like, you can't move, but your mind, you know, you're aware of everything.

• 46:33Bill Simmons?

  Halothane. We should have given this to Sean when I was doing my top 50 rewatch list.

• 46:40Bill Simmons?

  He's just paralyzed in the same trying to like move his foot as I do limitless.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Every five minutes hit him with another. A little dose.

• 46:48Bill Simmons?

  I wrote down, is this the paralyzing drug the Eagles give Jalen Hurts when they're up 20?

• 46:52Chris Ryan?

  That's one for one.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Boy, tough.

• 46:55Bill Simmons?

  It's a fair question. Greg laughed.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Very tough. Very, very tough.

• 46:59Bill Simmons?

  Come on, take some shots at my team, guys.

• 47:01Chris Ryan?

  No, I'm just gonna wait.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  What are we gonna say?

• 47:03Chris Ryan?

  I think this is bad karma for you. Cause by the time this comes out, you will have played.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  I like this energy.

• 47:08Chris Ryan?

  Just keep that in mind.

• 47:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's fair. It's fair. I'll make a joke about the Pats later. Try to reverse karma. Drowning scene and then car crash ending. Incredible job by the waterlogged ghost corpse.

• 47:20Chris Ryan?

  This is.

• 47:21Bill Simmons?

  Breaking through and saving the day.

• 47:23Chris Ryan?

  I, I have to say, I disagree with the appearance of the ghost in such a physical form in that place. I feel like in the, for the most part, for the rest of the movie, it's like a suggestion. It's a image in the mirror, you know.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Taken over the computer.

• 47:36Chris Ryan?

  Kind of that kind of thing. I guess that's home turf. I guess that's like, you're going to play the ghost in It's Jim, so they can move around a little bit more.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:45Chris Ryan?

  But it was just like Harrison Ford seeing her and getting yanked, basically was, I just thought broke a little bit of a fourth wall.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Why don't you want a woman to be in control of her own body?

• 47:55Chris Ryan?

  I'm fine with it. Just play by the same rules for the entire movie.

• 47:59Bill Simmons?

  Tarantino texted Zemeckis and was like, my one nitpick.

• 48:03Chris Ryan?

  Not enough feet.

• 48:03Bill Simmons?

  I didn't like the corpse. On the bright side, the feet stuff was great.

• 48:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:09Bill Simmons?

  What's your most rewatchable?

• 48:10Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I honestly think it might be that dinner scene.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 48:13Chris Ryan?

  I really think it's very cool. I know that the obvious one is.

• 48:15Bill Simmons?

  That number two for me.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Desk, desk sex, for sure.

• 48:18Bill Simmons?

  Possessed Fife is the best. Uh, what's the most 2000 thing about this movie? I have slow modem speeds and not having a cellphone camera as proof for your suspicions on something.

• 48:30Chris Ryan?

  I had having to drive a distance to get a cellphone signal.

• 48:33Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  I had hitting redial to a landline to see if somebody called before.

• 48:37Bill Simmons?

  That's good.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:38Bill Simmons?

  Special category, we don't give it, uh, get to give it away that often. The Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:44Bill Simmons?

  The house. So Addison Vermont, banks of Lake Champlain. And they built this from scratch, 3,500 square foot, Nantucket style. Uh, and did so much filming in the bathroom that they made five different bathrooms.

• 49:01Bill Simmons?

  Probably arguably the most bathroom filming.

• 49:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:05Bill Simmons?

  In a movie?

• 49:05Chris Ryan?

  There's a lot of bathrooms in Trainspotting.

• 49:08Bill Simmons?

  Eyes Wide Shut were in the bathroom for a while.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, sure.

• 49:10Bill Simmons?

  Fatal Attraction were in there for a little bit.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Is it, it's not the master bathroom though, right? It is. It's like there's a door from the hallway end from their bedroom. Oh, okay. I found that was odd that they're always entering like off the stairwell. You would have gone further with the renovation, is what I'm hearing. Maybe. Seal that off.

• 49:25Chris Ryan?

  Do you think an en suite bathroom shouldn't have a hallway entrance?

• 49:27Speaker 01

  No. Yeah, I agree with you on this.

• 49:29Bill Simmons?

  Needs like a better door lock if you're gonna do that.

• 49:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:33Bill Simmons?

  Well sadly they tore the house down after filming. Didn't meet local building codes.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Wasn't like a real house.

• 49:38Bill Simmons?

  Ass in Vermont.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  It's just like a shell.

• 49:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Looked great though.

• 49:42Bill Simmons?

  They filmed some stuff in LA too. What stage is the best? I have a bunch, but what do you have? Anything good?

• 49:47Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Cassie Harrison Ford is a guy who tries to kill his wife after the fugitive where he plays a guy who's wrongly accused of killing his wife.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  No question, yeah.

• 49:54Chris Ryan?

  Um, I like how Zemeckis is constantly subtly moving the camera so that it feels like you are watching Michelle Pfeiffer from a ghost POV. Uh, Steven Soderbergh just made a movie that is this, it is this presence where you're, it's like a haunted house movie from the ghost's perspective. But this is really cool cause like you can always see, like whenever Michelle Pfeiffer is walking around, like the camera's just kind of always slowly following her, but then like kind of going back and it just feels like something is always watching her. So I always really liked that.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 50:27Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Mel?

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Hmm, I think on the like Chekhov's X list, that's, that's a pretty fun part of it. We already talked about the, the paralyzing agent, the mystery key, the newspaper clipping from the DuPont chair night and how key that's gonna be, no cell service until you get to the middle of the bridge. Um, you know, the boat, the being hooked to the bed of the truck, like all of these little things. I think we, we will, I assume, talk later about maybe the parts of the script that don't quite measure up, but I think the like, this is actually go, we're telling you this or showing you this because it is going to prove vital in the final stretch, that's successful.

• 51:03Bill Simmons?

  I had that as well, the subtle foreshadowing.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:06Bill Simmons?

  I like when movies kind of plant like these little seemingly harmless things and then. Circles back and then like, oh yeah, she can't get. Oh, I.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, we're not in this lab for no reason.

• 51:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Just because she's visiting him at work, like we're gonna hear about something that matters.

• 51:20Bill Simmons?

  My daughter's generation, they're on their phone during that first part of the movie and they completely.

• 51:24Chris Ryan?

  They're just like, what's it, what the hell?

• 51:25Bill Simmons?

  Why can't he get receptions? Again, we fucking covered this.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Well, I'll tell you what no generation could possibly miss. It's the symbolism 101 stuff on display on the adamant trip that you would have preferred to remove from the movie.

• 51:35Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Is this a little too like obvious on the nose, maybe? But I actually think in this movie, it's very effective and it works. You have, the, the shop is called Sleeping Dog, right?

• 51:44Bill Simmons?

  Give me a break.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Yes, come on, right? The Georgia O'Keeffe-esque design of the pendant and the like sigil on the jewelry box, which is basically like a mashup of a heart, a flower and a vagina. Like what could be more perfect for the thing to be deck your mistress with? And then the Celtic knot.

• 52:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  On the key, because that's like an interesting one, because of course you have all the different aspects of that symbolism. You know, unity, faith, love, et cetera. But also this idea of like unending life with a ghostly specter. And also just the, the triple, the, the triple aspect of it, the trio. I think that's kind of, um, again, not subtle, very 101, but kind of fun to, to look for on a rewatch.

• 52:26Bill Simmons?

  I had famous movie stars in a well-done movie, which we discussed earlier. I had Vermont as a scary movie location.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:35Bill Simmons?

  I had, uh, any super attractive actress playing the cello? Sure.

• 52:39Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Always good.

• 52:40Chris Ryan?

  Any other examples of that?

• 52:41Speaker 01

  You've really got to wrap your body around that.

• 52:43Bill Simmons?

  But I just feel like that's gonna work. Um, I have dangerous bath scenes, but also dangerous things happening in a bathroom. We spend so much time in bathrooms.

• 52:53Chris Ryan?

  Harrison Ford hitting his head on the sink is.

• 52:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:56Chris Ryan?

  One of my worst fears.

• 52:57Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 52:58Chris Ryan?

  For myself, not for Harrison Ford.

• 53:00Bill Simmons?

  Also like just going into your bathroom and the, and the bathtub's full and you didn't fill it up.

• 53:04Chris Ryan?

  That happened to me once. Yeah, that one, we got back from vacation once, there was like a clog and the bath, like just the drip had filled up the entire bathtub.

• 53:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh my god, CR.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:15Bill Simmons?

  Fatal Attraction, I think, in this is in the finals for best bathroom scene. We did Fatal Attraction a long time ago.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  We sure did.

• 53:22Bill Simmons?

  We spent most of the time talking about how he came home after two days of fucking Glenn Close. He gave his dog spaghetti meatballs, which is the single worst thing anyone's ever done in a movie.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Absolutely demented.

• 53:32Bill Simmons?

  And Bauer's still upset.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Fucking demented.

• 53:36Bill Simmons?

  Just a complete violation as a dog owner.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 53:38Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of dogs.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, Cooper.

• 53:40Bill Simmons?

  When dogs know something is wrong, evil, or off in some way.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 53:44Bill Simmons?

  Always gets me in a movie. The dogs always know. They always know.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  They do. Animals are very intuitive. They really are.

• 53:50Bill Simmons?

  And then this is, this is an amazing one. You won't be prepared for this one.

• 53:56Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 53:56Bill Simmons?

  For what's aged the best. This was a big deal for me and my high school friends in 2000. My friend Scott Carino, who I went to high school with, and moved to LA to try to become an actor, and was in like Extra, Melrose Place, 90210, and kind of, his, the biggest thing I think he did, he's the dead husband in the photo of Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  No, really? Oh my god.

• 54:20Bill Simmons?

  My high school friend Scott Carino.

• 54:22Chris Ryan?

  Oh my god.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  What?

• 54:23Bill Simmons?

  So he's in two of the photos, and uh, my, my buddy Jeff, the, my best friend, the guy, the Halloween, I've talked about him on the pod, who loved Carino, and was a big character for us, and he, it was like the highlight of 2000.

• 54:36Chris Ryan?

  Do you have any idea, like, what does somebody get paid for something like that?

• 54:39Bill Simmons?

  You get paid as an extra. We asked him.

• 54:41Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 54:41Bill Simmons?

  You get like, it's like, uh, single still, whatever. I don't know if, you don't get a speaking line, so you don't get that part, but you get.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:49Bill Simmons?

  The whatever, but yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 54:51Chris Ryan?

  Does he get residuals?

• 54:52Bill Simmons?

  Like. Basically, he was married to Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  If you're non-union, no.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Iconic.

• 54:57Bill Simmons?

  I should've, I should've taken a picture of it and showed you guys.

• 54:59Speaker 03

  Probably got like 500 bucks.

• 55:00Chris Ryan?

  That's crazy.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  That's another real 2000's aspect of this movie too, is like the physical photo album.

• 55:06Chris Ryan?

  I know, and also keeping newspaper articles and stuff like that.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  You don't have, you just have your camera on your phone. You're not gonna like sit down and spookily discover something in your hands in the basement anymore.

• 55:17Bill Simmons?

  So obviously, I was. You did what was Pfeiffer like and just they photoshopped this thing.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, there's no way he actually got to take those pictures.

• 55:26Bill Simmons?

  He did have some good Melrose play stories.

• 55:28Chris Ryan?

  That's good.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  I bet.

• 55:29Bill Simmons?

  Apparently Vanessa Marcel was really attractive. Still remember that from way back when. Great check order award. What do you have, CR?

• 55:37Chris Ryan?

  When she comes down at the fence and the eye is in the, when she's looking through the fence.

• 55:41Bill Simmons?

  I like those.

• 55:42Chris Ryan?

  And then the eye is right there.

• 55:44Bill Simmons?

  That is batting a thousand when people do that. When they're looking through the thing and then the face comes on the other side. I don't know if that's ever not worked. Hey, new category. The Dr. Richard Kimball inappropriate body award goes to Harris Ford again.

• 55:59Chris Ryan?

  Where'd it go?

• 56:00Bill Simmons?

  We only give it to Harris Ford. Guy's fucking 57 and looks like he's about to play the Niners in the NFC title game.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  That was my flex.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  He looks, he looks perfect.

• 56:08Speaker 03

  We gotta change the name of the category.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  He looks perfect.

• 56:10Speaker 03

  He's 10, he's seven years older than Richard Kimball, Dr. Norman Spencer, and he's way 3% less body fat than Richard Kimball.

• 56:17Chris Ryan?

  I gotta say, cause I know that this is coming out on Monday, right?

• 56:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:21Chris Ryan?

  We get shirtless Sam Elliott in this episode of Landman and it's fucking incredible. Like it looks like he's carved out of a tree trunk. It's unbelievable and it's very similar body type to 57 year olds.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  And you could argue Kimball makes more sense than this guy. This guy's 57. He's allegedly obsessed with his work, always at work. He lives in Vermont. It's raining all the time. Why is this guy so chiseled?

• 56:43Chris Ryan?

  Two, uh, two responses. One, he's constantly jamming on undergrads and two,

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 56:48Chris Ryan?

  he's boating.

• 56:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's sex muscles.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  We'll come back to that cause I have a, I have a counterpoint to the constantly part of that, which will come back to another. Come back to that in another category, put a pin in it. But you know, they boat, right? They talk about taking drives. They're active. I mean, maybe it's not a bit of a lull.

• 57:02Speaker 03

  They're sailing.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  They're like, I think it's just, yeah, they're fucking all the time.

• 57:05Speaker 03

  More ripped than any current NFL quarterback in this movie.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  He looks great.

• 57:09Chris Ryan?

  And he probably eats like three bowls of Wheaties in the morning, has a piece of toast.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  The occasional bite of a red apple from his possessed wife's hands, you know?

• 57:16Speaker 03

  He's crazy jacked in this movie. Why is he so jacked? Was there a movie before this that he needed to be big for?

• 57:20Speaker 01

  He's just always been in shape, always.

• 57:22Bill Simmons?

  Imagine if you gave him like the peptides or some of the stuff the athletes use, would he just turn into like Barry Bonds in 2001?

• 57:28Chris Ryan?

  No, but that's, that's what makes him so aspirational. It's like a real body. It's not.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's like, yeah, when he's chugging lemonade in witness, you're like, yeah, you could have that sugar.

• 57:39Speaker 03

  The, the scientist Norman Spencer award for inappropriate body. More than Kimball, right?

• 57:44Bill Simmons?

  It is better because he's older. Yeah.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  It's just always, it always makes sense to me. It always makes sense to me. He was Indiana Jones. I don't know what to say.

• 57:52Bill Simmons?

  Sierra's got a flex category.

• 57:55Chris Ryan?

  In honor of fantasy, let's do the stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:01Chris Ryan?

  Uh, most of the Fures plot is an homage, an homage to Rear Window.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:05Chris Ryan?

  Uh, the Claire Madison ghost look-alike stuff is all vertigo.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 58:09Chris Ryan?

  And the score, the Alan Silvestri score is an homage to Bernard Herrmann's Bobby Z.

• 58:15Bill Simmons?

  Just fucking cracking it.

• 58:16Chris Ryan?

  Loves Hitchcock.

• 58:16Bill Simmons?

  And all the toe stuff was an homage to Tarantino. It's a secret surprise for his buddy. Oh, the Mallory Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

• 58:26Chris Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 58:27Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, always such a, such a delight.

• 58:30Chris Ryan?

  It's his last, last possession with the hogs.

• 58:33Bill Simmons?

  Five out of offense. Just go in the corner.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  So, I'm torn. Because on the one hand, I think the fact that we pull away from all of the glimpses of what their sex life is like is like part of what adds to the tantalizing nature of it. So at the beginning, you know, when Caitlin is still around, it's the like, we'll be quiet. Quick and quiet. I don't want to be either. Mmm. You're like, I would just watch them fuck, of course. But the fact that we don't feels appropriate for where we are in the movie. Then we get to the first night as empty nesters and they can hear Warren and Mary.

• 59:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Decibels rising along with that erection, right? They're going at it. Close the windows? No. Open them. Think we can take them. It's worth a try. And we get, again, like the leg over the shoulder, he's going down on her. Like, this is like, when I watch the rest of the scene, happily and without complaint. But it's fun to just like get a little glimpse of what their life is like. You know, you want to fool around. She's pretending to read, waiting for him to finish his work. You get the sense that this could just be every night in their life. And then, of course, we learn that there's a period of time where it wasn't.

• 59:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  And that is why he's strayed. Also, he's a sociopath. And then the desk scene, I mean, the biting of the lip, the tearing of the shirt, that scene is like, pretty close to perfect. So I don't know where else we would introduce a sex scene.

• 59:56Chris Ryan?

  That seems like it's more his speed. That seems like it's what he's looking for in the bedroom.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  A torn shirt and a bit lip. And he's like, he's pretending like it's too rough, but that's part of the game.

• 1:00:04Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  That's part of the game. Yeah, see, I think what Norman really wants is like, he wants when he's looking at her. On the step with the candle and the apple and legs wide. He definitely wants to just sit there and like, watch her masturbate. That's their vibe, I think. Right?

• 1:00:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  So we could have gotten that? That would have been great?

• 1:00:22Bill Simmons?

  It's just a shame I didn't have any thoughts.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Could we have gotten a Madison flashback? Like, could Madison have somehow shown us something about their sex as a point of contrast? Obviously, the physical resemblance that is incorporated into the plot of the movie could have been used to dupe us, where we think we're watching Claire and Norman and realize we're watching Madison and Norman?

• 1:00:43Bill Simmons?

  For the most part, he shied away from the sex, sex stuff.

• 1:00:47Chris Ryan?

  Ford?

• 1:00:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Well, this is like, yeah.

• 1:00:50Bill Simmons?

  Presumed Innocent, I think, is the furthest he went.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Pumping away on the desk in Presumed Innocent is notably distinct.

• 1:00:55Chris Ryan?

  What's the Polenski one where he's running around in Paris?

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Frantic. He starts cocaine in a toilet stall in that movie. That's very memorable as well.

• 1:01:01Bill Simmons?

  There's not like a crazy sex scene in that.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  There's a lot of sexual energy in that movie, though. That's a good movie.

• 1:01:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, speaking of sexual energy, the Dennis Peck Relationship Test is our next category.

• 1:01:12Chris Ryan?

  I wish they would have given it its real category name.

• 1:01:15Bill Simmons?

  Rewatchable, uh...

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Come on, commit.

• 1:01:19Bill Simmons?

  Named after, um...

• 1:01:20Chris Ryan?

  The Dennis Peck, "I'm gonna make your wife come."

• 1:01:24Bill Simmons?

  So the mailbag question of this was, uh... I think it's, "I'm gonna teach your wife."

• 1:01:29Chris Ryan?

  Teach your wife. Sorry, I didn't mean to get the line right.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  It's an important distinction.

• 1:01:34Bill Simmons?

  It was about how strong was the key relationship in the movie? Could Dennis Peck have basically uprooted it and... by doing Dennis Peck stuff? Would you leave the female character alone with Dennis Peck for 15 minutes? Could he get to her? I would say, wholeheartedly, yes, in this case.

• 1:01:49Chris Ryan?

  I think she was even kind of struck by, uh, Raymar. She was just like, "This guy's throwing off some interesting energy."

• 1:01:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz she's still a little...

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  He's got some nice hair in that movie.

• 1:01:58Bill Simmons?

  Little spurn from the affair.

• 1:02:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:00Bill Simmons?

  Still in the back of her head and the deep recesses.

• 1:02:02Chris Ryan?

  She's always home alone, just kinda like this guy in his research paper.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:05Bill Simmons?

  Dennis Peck comes over, hits the front door of the night, saying, "Hey, I heard there's some commotion over here."

• 1:02:11Chris Ryan?

  The fucking Stades from Vermont.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  They're fixing the lock, maybe calls a locksmith to deal with the door.

• 1:02:16Chris Ryan?

  Dennis Peck locksmith?

• 1:02:17Bill Simmons?

  What's a beautiful lady like you doing alone on a Saturday?

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  My computer's on the fritz. An electrician to deal with the power surge.

• 1:02:22Chris Ryan?

  He's got his polo tucked into his jeans. He's just like, nice boat.

• 1:02:26Bill Simmons?

  Dennis Peck is locked in.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Anybody can blow up the marriage. I mean, obviously, that's part of the point, but certainly Dennis Peck.

• 1:02:31Bill Simmons?

  This is easy. This is like child's play.

• 1:02:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's almost like this is spring training for this category.

• 1:02:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Like, he... The thing for him would be, he would probably not do it. Tanalize her with the, that she thinks they're gonna do it and then just keep.

• 1:02:45Chris Ryan?

  His bigger challenge would probably be going after Harrison Ford.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, it's really about can he get Norman? Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 1:02:52Bill Simmons?

  Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film, what do you have?

• 1:02:55Chris Ryan?

  I gotta say, I think they left a little bit on the table with Jodi. I think she could have been a little witchier and I think if you get me Laura Sangio Como or Linda Fiorentino, like somebody who could also.

• 1:03:09Bill Simmons?

  Sultry Italians.

• 1:03:10Chris Ryan?

  Well, here's the thing, her admission that she has known that Norman has been cheating on her for a year is fucking not ride or die behavior.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 1:03:20Chris Ryan?

  And would be like in any other movie or in another version of this movie, you'd be like, oh, maybe Jodi and Norman have a little thing going.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Or maybe she hopes they will. I had this as a picky hit, but yeah, it's.

• 1:03:31Bill Simmons?

  Pick as well.

• 1:03:32Chris Ryan?

  But if you throw somebody's just.

• 1:03:33Bill Simmons?

  Terrible friend.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Awful, awful. And the excuse of like, you know, the car accident and you were in such a state and Norman was in such a state. It's like, who gives a shit? If you know my husband is fucking someone else, tell me.

• 1:03:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  We're supposed to be best friends, but especially once I have asked you to start coming to my home to sit on the bathroom floor with a Ouija board. And you know, I'm going through it. At that point, definitely tell me.

• 1:03:55Chris Ryan?

  But Jodi's also like, I got this car to pick up dudes. And it's like, I'm kinda, I kinda wanna know a little bit more about that. And I would have loved a little bit of a suggestion that she had something for Norman.

• 1:04:05Bill Simmons?

  My, uh, my Butch's Girlfriend was who the fuck is cheating on Michelle Pfeiffer?

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:04:10Bill Simmons?

  Come on.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  All right. I have a question for you about this.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Is there a way you can swing this the other, to the other direction and say that this is actually kind of like, rather than being either inconceivable, which I agree, it is.

• 1:04:24Bill Simmons?

  He just has to have like a sex addiction. That, I'll accept that answer.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  There's a part of, like, when you first confront it, it seems.

• 1:04:31Bill Simmons?

  She's post, post, postpartum depression.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  It seems impossible that Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer, that their characters.

• 1:04:37Chris Ryan?

  What does he say? He's like, we were having problems?

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And yes, he's like, we were, we were struggling. And that gives you an excuse to fuck your students. But is there a way you can swing this? Instead of saying like, okay, well, people, when you're married, you never really know another person, the anxiety. You watch this movie, you're like, oh my God, if like Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford can't figure it out, what hope do the rest of us have? I swing the other way with it. I think it's like a kind of positive empowering thing when you're like, if even Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer are going through it, maybe we're all doing okay, actually.

• 1:05:11Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:05:12Bill Simmons?

  It's a W for all of us.

• 1:05:13Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Chris Ryan?

  Marriage is hard.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:05:15Bill Simmons?

  Maybe you could get through the next Ravens Broncos playoff game, if it ever happens.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Not in the same room.

• 1:05:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  Not in the same room.

• 1:05:21Bill Simmons?

  Not in the same room?

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  No, we can't, oh no. When we lived in New York and they played in the playoffs, I took a train to Baltimore.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  And then more recently, we watched in different rooms.

• 1:05:30Bill Simmons?

  Were you with Adam?

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  We make Halo pick between a mini helmet.

• 1:05:32Bill Simmons?

  For the Flacco 80 yard touchdown game?

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  No, I went to Baltimore.

• 1:05:36Bill Simmons?

  You, oh, so you didn't watch that with them?

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  No, you stayed in New York and I went to Baltimore to watch with my dad.

• 1:05:40Bill Simmons?

  And you stayed dating after that?

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Well, we're still married, so, yeah. Believe it or not.

• 1:05:46Bill Simmons?

  That's a fucking traumatic game. I mean, that's like the most traumatic football loss of the last 15 years.

• 1:05:52Chris Ryan?

  I can't even remember, what was that?

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  For some.

• 1:05:54Chris Ryan?

  What was that Broncos team?

• 1:05:55Bill Simmons?

  It was the game's over.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Bill Simmons?

  Flacco throws basically a hail mary.

• 1:05:58Chris Ryan?

  Jacoby Jones.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Jacoby Jones.

• 1:05:59Bill Simmons?

  To Jacoby Jones.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Miracle at Mile High.

• 1:06:02Bill Simmons?

  It's ridiculous. It's, it's, anytime it's on Twitter, I watch it and I'm like, I just can't fucking believe he got behind the defense when they're on their own 20 with like 30 seconds left.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  Fantastic stuff.

• 1:06:14Bill Simmons?

  Uh, what's age the worst? We talked about a lot of this already. I, my big one was not recognizing immediately when your wife is possessed. Unless you think that he did, but he was kind of into it.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Well, he does like knock her off of him at that point on the floor.

• 1:06:26Bill Simmons?

  But there's like about two minutes there where you should know like, wait, what's going on?

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:32Bill Simmons?

  Why are you acting like this?

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:34Bill Simmons?

  Any other what's age the worst?

• 1:06:35Chris Ryan?

  Um, there's a very funny, uh, point when Norm takes the, uh, Spells and Incantations book.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's great.

• 1:06:42Chris Ryan?

  And writes down on a legal pad, proposed suggestion, exorcism, dash, by fire, ex, like with underlining by fire.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:06:50Chris Ryan?

  It's just like a very funny cutaway, if there's no taking process and more, we've talked about the trailer, we talked about everything. But I just find this movie too unerotic to be considered an erotic thriller. And every time I start this movie, I'm like, oh, this is a really horny movie and it's just not.

• 1:07:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't, I never felt like it was an erotic thriller. I always just felt like it was a safe scary movie.

• 1:07:10Chris Ryan?

  It sort of pitched that way in the trailer.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, pitched that way in the trailer and certain scenes we get there, but I, I agree with you. I think, so this is where I'll come back to your constantly fucking.

• 1:07:17Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  The undergrads.

• 1:07:18Chris Ryan?

  Let's interrogate this.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  This is my what's age the worst. We've, like you said, we've hit a lot of the other ones. The idea that it is rare for somebody to find Norman Spencer, played by Harrison Ford, attractive is borderline disqualifying for the movie.

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  It's that one line, he's like, she was attracted to me.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  And then out of nowhere, some bright young woman finds me attractive? Like, this has never happened?

• 1:07:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  Again, in indie, the undergrads are lowering their eyes so that he can see written across their eyelids, "I love you, like, I wanna fuck you."

• 1:07:48Speaker 03

  You get the sense that-

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  This should not be abnormal.

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  That Norman is scrambling, though, to like, come up with things to say almost.

• 1:07:54Chris Ryan?

  That's the thing, is that there's this Russian nesting doll of lies with him, where it's like, first it's, "No, I didn't do anything." Then it was, "She killed herself." Then it was, "I murdered her." So if you're really telling me that he only had this-

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  And then it's, "I'll turn myself in," yeah.

• 1:08:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and then if you're telling me this is the one time this has happened, it's like, no, it's the one time he got caught.

• 1:08:10Bill Simmons?

  Possible serial killer.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  Do you think they all look the same?

• 1:08:12Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Mal, you have a flex category.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, um, let's see. We've done the, did the movie need a better sex scene? We've already talked about Cooper, so maybe not Brandy Booth time. Hmm, should we talk about Cooper some more and do Brandy Booth?

• 1:08:28Bill Simmons?

  Let's do Brandy Booth.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Or most giftable moment?

• 1:08:31Bill Simmons?

  Oh, let's do that.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, Fortune 3 Club, let's do that. That's a, there's some giftable moment. If this movie came out now, it would be like meme central. I would pick, I would pick when Norman, when she's in the tub, and he, wha- what's that with the necklace? And pulls her forward, and then when he leans Claire back, it's Madison's rotting dead corpse. And he kind of like throws himself back, hand acting again, crashes into the mirror, falls and hits his head. That would be my most giftable moment, yeah.

• 1:08:59Bill Simmons?

  The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:03Bill Simmons?

  Could Luke Wilson have carried this movie, CR?

• 1:09:05Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I think he would have been an interesting Norman, because I think he would have been like, you wouldn't have had, he's an attractive guy, but he's not like, top five Hall of Fame, all-time hottest dudes ever, where you're like, yeah, you would not have a crisis of confidence.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Not so needy.

• 1:09:18Bill Simmons?

  Honey, what's going on?

• 1:09:20Chris Ryan?

  God.

• 1:09:20Bill Simmons?

  Why are you acting that way?

• 1:09:23Bill Simmons?

  That's kind of the cool thing.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Pretty good.

• 1:09:25Bill Simmons?

  Thanks, Craig.

• 1:09:26Chris Ryan?

  My honest take, if we're being honest, Claire takes one look at Norman when he's sailing, and all is forgiven. Like, the fucking vibes he is throwing off on the boat. He's got the dad hat on, the barber jacket.

• 1:09:40Bill Simmons?

  He's got his award for being a doctor.

• 1:09:42Chris Ryan?

  Let's go to an Airbnb and just like fucking leaf peep for a little bit. Like, let's do this. She's just like, whatever, Madison, R.I.P. There's no way she's carrying this case any further.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  I love this.

• 1:09:55Chris Ryan?

  She's like, I got it pretty good. This guy's working on RNA vaccines, you know? Like, we got this great house, he's got tenure, I can cello around a little bit, work on the roses.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure, he tells me I have to go to therapy, but the therapist gives me fireballs in the middle of the session, like, it's not so bad.

• 1:10:10Bill Simmons?

  I like this. Like my house, things are good.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, great one.

• 1:10:13Chris Ryan?

  Who can say what happened?

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  All right, mine is,

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  if you're going to kill me.

• 1:10:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  Don't do it in the same way you killed your mistress, who you cheated on me with. It's just insulting.

• 1:10:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's like a double whammy. This isn't even the hottest take.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  Find another way. Like, work a little harder. You know, and he's like, you had no idea how hard it was to hold her under the water. It's like, oh, she did it in the bathtub. That's why she's not in the bathtub. You use the paralyzing agent. Like, come on, man. I'm your fucking wife.

• 1:10:44Chris Ryan?

  Is it too sick for us to speculate on what would be an appropriate way to kill Claire?

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Let's do it right now. That's what the podcast is for.

• 1:10:51Chris Ryan?

  You might want to cut this out, because it's going to sound sick, but like, choke her with her own cello strings?

• 1:10:57Bill Simmons?

  A little more signature move.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  He was really, he was ready for this. He was ready for this.

• 1:11:01Chris Ryan?

  You had that ready?

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, the basement.

• 1:11:04Chris Ryan?

  Not that I considered this, but that's just off the top of my head.

• 1:11:07Bill Simmons?

  Somebody would think, when Dennis Peck comes over to try to solve the crime, he thinks it was like a former student or something.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  This is great. It's a good use of the basement, too. Because we're sort of like presented with the basement, like, something really terrible is going to happen there, and then it doesn't.

• 1:11:20Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:11:20Bill Simmons?

  This is a good possible category, murdering conciliary. If you're trying to figure out if it was the best possible way they could have killed somebody.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like this.

• 1:11:29Chris Ryan?

  Buffalo Bill, maybe, like, don't play with your food, you know? Like, it's just like, make, let's get over with it.

• 1:11:34Bill Simmons?

  She got to size 12, we're gonna go. You don't need a size 14 here, buddy.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  We have enough skin. He also just had like the doctors, the paramedics at the bathtub for the fake electrocution. It's like too much attention on the bathtub. This is just sloppy stuff from Norman.

• 1:11:49Bill Simmons?

  Mine, I went a little hotter than you guys. I think this is an even better, don't have an affair, could ruin your life movie than Fatal Attraction. I think this goes actually worse than it did. Fatal Attraction, it's fine at the end. Glenn Close is dead. Everyone thinks it was her fault and he's back to the house he just got. This is like, dream house. He put all this time in, kinda got away with it. The fucking ghost, it was the one thing he didn't count on. And then he ends up drowning in the lake with the ghost.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:21Bill Simmons?

  He ends up having to deal with that for the rest of his life. It's just, it's just worse.

• 1:12:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, if I'm, if I'm Norman, I'm really mad that the therapist did not make more progress with her. I mean, like, he-

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Only a couple sessions.

• 1:12:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:33Bill Simmons?

  That's where you go for a Vermont therapist.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Only a couple sessions.

• 1:12:36Bill Simmons?

  Gotta take her to the city.

• 1:12:37Chris Ryan?

  She's gone to Burlington.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  As final resting places go though, I mean, as stated, what a beautiful lake.

• 1:12:43Bill Simmons?

  It's tough though. Really dark in the bottom of those lakes.

• 1:12:46Chris Ryan?

  You really feel like you're rotting away down there too. Not that I've considered that either.

• 1:12:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, tough one. Casting what ifs. We don't have any because Zemeckis is like, I want these two.

• 1:12:55Chris Ryan?

  For, one of the first times in the history of this category, Harrison Ford turned down The Perfect Storm-

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:01Chris Ryan?

  -to do What Lies Beneath, so it winds up becoming a casting what ifs for Perfect Storm, really.

• 1:13:06Bill Simmons?

  And it ends up becoming a thank God, because I think that Boston accent would have fucking twisted him around.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Chris Ryan?

  He really had hard on for boats at this point. He was just like, I gotta get on a boat. I don't care what-

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Loves the boat, loves the playing, loves the ranch.

• 1:13:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:20Bill Simmons?

  Best that guy award. Who'd you have?

• 1:13:23Chris Ryan?

  I'd Ray Baker.

• 1:13:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a winner. The James Remar award for a movie with James Remar in it. He wins. James Remar.

• 1:13:30Chris Ryan?

  What about, but for Dion Waiters, would you go Joe Morton, this therapist?

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  You don't think Jodie is Dion Waiters?

• 1:13:37Bill Simmons?

  I had Ghost Lady.

• 1:13:39Speaker 01

  Oh, Madison is Dion Waiters.

• 1:13:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah. No lines.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Is Jodie in it too much to be Dion Waiters?

• 1:13:44Bill Simmons?

  I thought she was.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  I wish to commune.

• 1:13:46Bill Simmons?

  I think she's like the number four lead.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Okay, interesting. You did, is, so to us, of course, well, not to you, but to those of us who have seen The Lord of the Rings, Miranda Otto is Ewan, obviously, but to you, are you like, Miranda Otto, oh, that guy? Is, because you don't have no relationship to Ewan, you have no relationship to The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

• 1:14:05Speaker 03

  You keep saying Ewan, it's not gonna ring a bell for him.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  She's a S.H.I.E.L.D. maiden of Rohan!

• 1:14:09Bill Simmons?

  Was that, was that English?

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was, uh, she was one of the horse ladies, yeah.

• 1:14:14Bill Simmons?

  I just saw your lips moving for a second there.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Did you, did you do the extended editions?

• 1:14:18Speaker 03

  No, they wanted me to just do their regular first.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Come on, man.

• 1:14:21Speaker 03

  Really? You think I should have started with the extended?

• 1:14:22Bill Simmons?

  Who's they, the?

• 1:14:24Speaker 03

  Liz's two brothers who love these movies. I watched them all, though.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  You should only watch extended editions from here.

• 1:14:29Speaker 03

  Back to back to back, I watched.

• 1:14:30Chris Ryan?

  In one day, or how many?

• 1:14:31Speaker 03

  One each day.

• 1:14:32Chris Ryan?

  That's awesome.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  Give you credit for watching one of the three best trilogies ever made.

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  Come on!

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Congrats!

• 1:14:37Speaker 03

  Thanks!

• 1:14:41Bill Simmons?

  Recasting couch director city, I'd like to see ours, Laura San Giacomo.

• 1:14:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I also.

• 1:14:45Bill Simmons?

  As the, as the friend.

• 1:14:47Chris Ryan?

  Lauren, Laura San Giacomo as, uh, as, uh, Jodie. Talk me through a couple of my ideas here for other directors.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:14:56Chris Ryan?

  So obviously, BDP, get DePaula in there.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  That would be fucking great. That would be, that would honestly be a lot better.

• 1:15:03Chris Ryan?

  I think there's a lot more.

• 1:15:04Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, coming right out of Snake Eyes, too, pretty good move for him.

• 1:15:06Chris Ryan?

  A lot more like, long crane shots going from the Fuhrer's house back, back and forth, two fuck scenes.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:15:14Bill Simmons?

  Fight for Quetzal when he insists on the masturbation bathtub scene.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:15:17Bill Simmons?

  She walks off the set, Sharon Stone's right there, she's in.

• 1:15:21Chris Ryan?

  Another one, Fincher?

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  That would also be amazing.

• 1:15:24Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he basically, Panic Room is slightly his version of this, yeah.

• 1:15:28Chris Ryan?

  And then the last one I was thinking of was Adrian Line.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  Oh!

• 1:15:33Bill Simmons?

  Getting horny.

• 1:15:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:34Bill Simmons?

  Probably need worse actors.

• 1:15:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, supernatural horny, yeah.

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  I like all of those.

• 1:15:38Bill Simmons?

  Interesting. Yeah, with that one, you're probably going, Richard Gere, he's available.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  Gere would be a great, Gere would be a great Norman.

• 1:15:47Bill Simmons?

  And then?

• 1:15:48Chris Ryan?

  Gere would be an amazing Norman.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Gere would be a fucking great Norman.

• 1:15:52Bill Simmons?

  Is Kelly Preston?

• 1:15:54Chris Ryan?

  Uh.

• 1:15:54Bill Simmons?

  No, probably too, no.

• 1:15:57Chris Ryan?

  Who's a good cellist?

• 1:15:59Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:16:00Chris Ryan?

  Who can I see being an amazing cellist?

• 1:16:04Bill Simmons?

  We'll come back to that. Let's take a break and then Craig has a flex category. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year.

• 1:16:49Bill Simmons?

  Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters November 6th. Get tickets now.

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• 1:17:39Bill Simmons?

  I forgot Craig already did his flex category, so we'll go half-assed into research. A shockingly dismal amount of research on this movie. I was surprised, it made almost $300 million.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  It's standing out there.

• 1:17:50Bill Simmons?

  The only thing that I found that was interesting was Michelle Pfeiffer's fear of water and saying how she had to lie in a bathtub for like five hours at a time. That really made me think about what I would want as an actor at that point. Like I'm sure they're wearing a bathing suit, but like, how warm would it have to be? Would they have to keep making it hotter?

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, with your skin wrinkles. Yeah, of course.

• 1:18:14Bill Simmons?

  I've had a lot of, I was really interested in that, but there's no other research.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Well, what's the entertainment? Because, you know, when I'm in the bath.

• 1:18:22Bill Simmons?

  Listening to The Watch?

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  I listen to The Watch. That's what I do when I'm in the bath.

• 1:18:25Bill Simmons?

  Do you really?

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Genuinely, I will say, I don't know if I've shared this update with you.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  In the video podcasting era, it's like,

• 1:18:35Chris Ryan?

  It's a little bit more like I'm there.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  degree too weird, but for years.

• 1:18:39Bill Simmons?

  So you're naked watching your friend Chris?

• 1:18:41Chris Ryan?

  No, she's naked listening to her friend Chris.

• 1:18:43Bill Simmons?

  That's what I mean.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah, just a relaxing evening in the tub, you know?

• 1:18:47Bill Simmons?

  Do you fast forward the eight minutes of foreplay at the top and go right to the show? Or do you go foreplay first?

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  Those are my favorite eight minutes.

• 1:18:53Chris Ryan?

  There's, it's a 50 50 thing where it's like, some people hate it and some people love it.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  Those are my favorite eight minutes.

• 1:18:58Chris Ryan?

  Entire spectrum of watch listenership.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Listening to my favorite friendship, but yeah, so what's, what podcast is Claire Spencer listening to, you know, if this is a period of time where there's podcasts?

• 1:19:06Bill Simmons?

  Oh, she's definitely rerunning back Serial.

• 1:19:09Chris Ryan?

  Oh, she, yeah.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  True Crime.

• 1:19:10Bill Simmons?

  Even though she knows what happened, she didn't know if she missed a couple of things.

• 1:19:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  That's a, that's a spin on this is where instead of like this vibe, it's more like only murders in the building, you know, she's like, I've learned a lot from True Crime podcasting.

• 1:19:22Chris Ryan?

  Norman could have told something was wrong by looking at her wrapped. It's like, hey Claire.

• 1:19:27Chris Ryan?

  A lot of a ghost is living with me pod.

• 1:19:29Bill Simmons?

  Like he sneaks on her phone and looks at her Instagram algorithm for the for you stuff. And he's like, what is going on?

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Why is your top bookmark missing persons?

• 1:19:37Bill Simmons?

  Everything's haunted or missing.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:39Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain, fight for and forward, no.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 1:19:43Bill Simmons?

  Ghost movies, no.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:19:44Bill Simmons?

  Cheating husband comeuppance movies, maybe. Remar, no. Haunted House movies, no.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:19:50Bill Simmons?

  Semecus, no.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:19:52Bill Simmons?

  Waterlog corpse, coming back to life and coming involved in the plot.

• 1:19:57Chris Ryan?

  I mean, there's some Pirates of the Caribbean corpses.

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, sure.

• 1:20:00Chris Ryan?

  Right?

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, Caribbean.

• 1:20:01Bill Simmons?

  Do we have this in the finals for naked?

• 1:20:04Chris Ryan?

  Caribbean, sorry.

• 1:20:06Bill Simmons?

  Naked ghost bodies with the shining?

• 1:20:11Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I think the shine.

• 1:20:12Bill Simmons?

  When Jack looks in the mirror and all of a sudden it's like a gross lady.

• 1:20:14Chris Ryan?

  To me, that's like a one versus 16 seed.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:20:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I didn't have any Apex Mountains.

• 1:20:19Chris Ryan?

  Uh, cinematic Vermont? They could have done, I feel like this is a moment.

• 1:20:25Bill Simmons?

  Not bad.

• 1:20:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:25Bill Simmons?

  It's pretty good. I like it.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:28Bill Simmons?

  Bad or Grown Ups 2, where they filmed Grown Ups 2?

• 1:20:31Chris Ryan?

  Somewhere there.

• 1:20:32Bill Simmons?

  Grown Ups 2 off the top of my head.

• 1:20:34Chris Ryan?

  It's a good movie.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  You're the best.

• 1:20:39Bill Simmons?

  It's a big kids movie.

• 1:20:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:41Bill Simmons?

  My kids love grownups too. We own it.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  Cruise or Hanks?

• 1:20:46Chris Ryan?

  I have Hanks just because he's a Bobby Zemeckis.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  I'm shocked. I'm astonished.

• 1:20:51Speaker 03

  Evil Hanks?

• 1:20:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's Zemeckis's guy.

• 1:20:54Bill Simmons?

  This is one of your worst. I hope this is your worst call of 2026.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:59Bill Simmons?

  I really do.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Boy.

• 1:21:00Bill Simmons?

  I hope we've peaked right here.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 1:21:03Speaker 03

  It's so clearly Cruise.

• 1:21:04Chris Ryan?

  I'm gonna go for this and not for, I would have killed Michelle Pfeiffer with chokes.

• 1:21:08Speaker 01

  No, that's why you're the best. That's why you're a legend.

• 1:21:11Bill Simmons?

  Think of all the things Cruise would want to do in this.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  It's obviously Cruise.

• 1:21:14Bill Simmons?

  He would want to turn evil at the end.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:17Bill Simmons?

  He would want to have like the sexy scene.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:21:20Bill Simmons?

  He would want to have the, uh, the scene when he realizes she's possessed and is trying to get away from her.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:26Chris Ryan?

  I think Chris is right. Counterpoint.

• 1:21:27Speaker 03

  I think Chris is right.

• 1:21:28Chris Ryan?

  Cruise.

• 1:21:28Bill Simmons?

  What?

• 1:21:29Chris Ryan?

  I think it's Hank. Cruise has just done my fucked up marriage movie with Eyes Wide Shut. He's not gonna go fucking do what lies beneath.

• 1:21:36Bill Simmons?

  That's a good point.

• 1:21:36Chris Ryan?

  This is exactly, if, if Hanks was caring about like counter-programming his image.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  But he can't, yeah. If we're gonna bring in the where are they in their real schedules, then Hanks is eliminated for consideration.

• 1:21:48Chris Ryan?

  Do this movie and lose weight at the same time.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  What about the, he's growing the beard.

• 1:21:52Chris Ryan?

  Why can't Norman have a beard?

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  He, I, I'm sorry, but when Claire is running her fingers through Norman's pectoral chest hair.

• 1:22:00Chris Ryan?

  Have you seen Tom Cruise?

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  You've been alone lancing your gums with a ice skate on an island. That's just not the vibe.

• 1:22:08Chris Ryan?

  Castaway, right?

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:09Bill Simmons?

  Oh, true.

• 1:22:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  That's not.

• 1:22:12Speaker 03

  I don't think we should factor in like the, the shooting schedules of these actors when considering.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  He's the one who brought it up.

• 1:22:17Chris Ryan?

  I just was mentioning.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  By saying he's not gonna do fucked up marriages in a row.

• 1:22:21Chris Ryan?

  I'm trying to say, Tom Hanks is doing the kind of counter-programming that Harrison Ford is doing in this film. If Tom Hanks is in this movie, it plays against everything we think about Tom Hanks.

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  Sure. That's true.

• 1:22:32Chris Ryan?

  Tom Cruise coming off of Eyes Wide Shut, you're like, yeah, that guy is a fucked up husband. He does go to the Fidelio parties.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise out crazies Pfeiffer.

• 1:22:41Chris Ryan?

  Exactly right. Hanks, you, you need that steady.

• 1:22:44Bill Simmons?

  A rare tie, two to two tie.

• 1:22:45Speaker 03

  I would never expect it from Hanks. Like you wouldn't expect it from your friend Harrison Ford.

• 1:22:49Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 1:22:50Bill Simmons?

  I could see Cruise. And do doing the tour for this, the media tour, being like, Bob came to me. Just doing like the crazy energy.

• 1:22:59Speaker 01

  Cruise demands to do his, to do his own stunt from under the tarp of the fucking boat.

• 1:23:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  To dive through.

• 1:23:06Bill Simmons?

  He would have had to water ski or something.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, in the truck, like, that would have been great.

• 1:23:10Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese or Spielberg? Spielberg.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Well, Spielberg passed on it, right? Like, he didn't want to do it?

• 1:23:14Bill Simmons?

  He did. This movie's in the Spielberg area.

• 1:23:17Chris Ryan?

  There is a Cape Fear version of this movie that Scorsese does, but it's probably Spielberg is the answer here.

• 1:23:23Bill Simmons?

  New category. Good hang, bad hang.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  I'm in.

• 1:23:27Bill Simmons?

  I present to you the Spencers. I think good dinner date hangs.

• 1:23:33Chris Ryan?

  Good dinner date?

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:34Bill Simmons?

  You don't know Claire might have a couple of drinks.

• 1:23:36Chris Ryan?

  We're a little bit more fun.

• 1:23:38Bill Simmons?

  But think about like, who are you going out with tonight? The Spencers.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  Spencers.

• 1:23:42Bill Simmons?

  What happened with that lady? She had that car accident.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:45Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, she's off the rails. Like, I hope she gets a couple of drinks tonight.

• 1:23:48Chris Ryan?

  I think I would like to go to a party with the Spencers. A double date with them would be tough, because you got.

• 1:23:53Bill Simmons?

  You wouldn't want to do dinner.

• 1:23:54Chris Ryan?

  No, it's just that Norman's gonna be fucking whining about his dad.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:23:58Chris Ryan?

  And Claire's gonna be like, oh, kind of thinking about the ghost in my house. And it's like, you know, you need people to rap.

• 1:24:02Bill Simmons?

  But then you get to drive home and talk about the Spencers. Like, oh my god, how fucking crazy is Claire?

• 1:24:07Chris Ryan?

  I would rather have seen, we're at the cocktail party, Madison shows up, Claire blacks out.

• 1:24:13Bill Simmons?

  Talk to the Spencers for a while.

• 1:24:14Chris Ryan?

  Fucking car accident, like, that's something you talk about for the rest of the year.

• 1:24:17Bill Simmons?

  So you're saying Spencer's bad hang?

• 1:24:20Chris Ryan?

  Well, I thought we were gonna do good hang, bad hang, the Spencers, like, would you rather hang out with Norman or Claire?

• 1:24:25Bill Simmons?

  I'm giving you the Spencers as a combo.

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  The only way you want to hang out with the Spencers, it's only a good hang if you're swinging. That's it. Unless they're, they're up to swing.

• 1:24:35Chris Ryan?

  Like, do you think Norm?

• 1:24:36Bill Simmons?

  Like, swinging, like, swinging.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  Swinging.

• 1:24:39Chris Ryan?

  Between.

• 1:24:40Bill Simmons?

  Good hang.

• 1:24:40Chris Ryan?

  Getting strange.

• 1:24:42Bill Simmons?

  Great hang.

• 1:24:42Chris Ryan?

  And working on his paper. Do you think Norm's watched a single Sox game that summer?

• 1:24:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, where were the Red Sox in the background?

• 1:24:49Chris Ryan?

  It was the Trot and Troy season, right? 2000?

• 1:24:51Bill Simmons?

  2000.

• 1:24:52Chris Ryan?

  99, 2000?

• 1:24:53Bill Simmons?

  That was Carl Everett.

• 1:24:54Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:24:55Bill Simmons?

  That was when he bumped the umpire and the season went to hell. I was at that game. God damn it. Why'd he do that?

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 1:25:02Chris Ryan?

  That's probably what, that's probably what drove Norm over the edge.

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:25:05Bill Simmons?

  I came home angry and immediately wrote a column for 7,500 people.

• 1:25:11Bill Simmons?

  Picky knits.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Oh my god, there are so many.

• 1:25:15Bill Simmons?

  We spent so much time on James Remar and then it's never heard from again 40 minutes into the movie. Is that?

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:22Bill Simmons?

  The red herring thing, do you like that or do you wish he had circled back in some way?

• 1:25:25Chris Ryan?

  I think that they needed to pop up again. I think like Mary-

• 1:25:28Bill Simmons?

  Should he have come over near the end?

• 1:25:30Chris Ryan?

  Mary should have like saved her or something like maybe Mary comes in and Norman hits her and that's what makes it like Norman has to kill Claire now like I don't know like there needed to be something.

• 1:25:40Bill Simmons?

  I like that a lot and I think one of those two had to come in the house and be like, what's going on in here? And then gets hit by a candlestick or chow.

• 1:25:48Speaker 03

  Remar's wife's like hysteria at the beginning of the movie just kind of being like brushed off as a normal like that was completely bizarre.

• 1:25:55Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:25:56Speaker 03

  It was too much of a red herring.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, it obviously sets up a big chunk of like her investigating that to ultimately realize that's not her. Picking it in that stretch, though, on the real estate front, why are we peeking through the fence and standing on rocks to look over and slicing our wrists open? Once you realize that neither of their front lawns are gated in.

• 1:26:17Chris Ryan?

  She could just go around and be like, you alright?

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  Round the fucking bed and be like, what's up?

• 1:26:20Bill Simmons?

  That's a great one.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  You okay?

• 1:26:22Speaker 03

  Because she is talking to her, so it's not like she's trying to obscure her watching.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was bizarre.

• 1:26:26Bill Simmons?

  I had another one on that, on that, like a logistics thing.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:29Bill Simmons?

  This guy's really smart, right? This doctor, Harrison Ford.

• 1:26:33Chris Ryan?

  But not as smart as his dad, but yeah.

• 1:26:35Bill Simmons?

  But really smart, got through med school.

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  He's a DuPont chair, not sure if he heard.

• 1:26:38Bill Simmons?

  Kills somebody and just dumps the stuff right over the dock.

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  This is a huge one.

• 1:26:42Speaker 03

  He tosses it right off the dock.

• 1:26:44Bill Simmons?

  You want to walk 40 yards to the right? Just right over?

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  Very sloppy.

• 1:26:49Chris Ryan?

  But then Madison becomes like the Loch Ness monster of Lake Champlain, right? Like, because she gets to the bridge too.

• 1:26:54Bill Simmons?

  That's the other thing, how much territory is she covering as a ghost?

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  Well, the car is dumped, like, because he says the boat entrance is where he took her to dump the car.

• 1:27:02Speaker 03

  And which is under the bridge, like, why is the, why is the ghost there?

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  And then there's the box, the jewelry box. So there's like evidence in multiple locations, all too close to home.

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  Why is the car under the bridge? I didn't understand that.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  Very sloppy, very sloppy.

• 1:27:10Speaker 03

  Doesn't make sense.

• 1:27:11Chris Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 1:27:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, you assume that he drove her off the bridge, right?

• 1:27:14Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:27:15Chris Ryan?

  No, he, he, I thought it would-

• 1:27:17Speaker 03

  He backed her in and let the, and let the car sink into the lake.

• 1:27:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:20Speaker 03

  At the boat entrance, wherever that is.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  Killed her, but she's dead at that point. He's just getting rid of the body.

• 1:27:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's killed her in the tub.

• 1:27:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:27Speaker 01

  And he, yes, he's, he wheels her to the-

• 1:27:29Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna say Norman, not a great murderer.

• 1:27:31Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:27:31Bill Simmons?

  Like, really sloppy.

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  And then again, runs it all back, the playbook, exactly. It's like absurd.

• 1:27:36Chris Ryan?

  Although maybe he was just like, this is, he's like Sirianni. He's like, no turnovers here, you know? Just.

• 1:27:43Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  Run the fucking ball.

• 1:27:45Chris Ryan?

  Nitpick is, where the fuck did Caitlin go? She's goes, first day at college, she never checks in on our parents. She's never like.

• 1:27:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:53Chris Ryan?

  Kind of a weird vibe coming from mom right now. Like, what's happening? I haven't heard.

• 1:27:57Bill Simmons?

  It's pretty early in the email stage, but you still had email in 2000. She should be like, hey, mom.

• 1:28:03Speaker 03

  What's the span of this movie? Is it like a, how long is this?

• 1:28:05Chris Ryan?

  I thought it was a couple of weeks.

• 1:28:07Bill Simmons?

  It's like September, October, yeah.

• 1:28:08Chris Ryan?

  Because I thought she's starting, she's slowly losing it over the days or weeks.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  I think the whole, like, you even could say, maybe it's like a what's aged the worst, the whole, like, I've lost my mind because I'm an empty nester now and have no identity. Like, not the most delicate portrait in the script. And I think that aspect, but I guess that's the answer is like, she has to convince herself, I don't need to call her all the time.

• 1:28:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  Right? Like, I don't need to check in.

• 1:28:33Bill Simmons?

  She's already lost her dad's Scott Carino, and now she loses her stepdad.

• 1:28:38Chris Ryan?

  Like, how often would you call your folks from college? Once a week?

• 1:28:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, I didn't go to college in the email era, but I would have emailed them. I think, or they would have emailed me. I feel like there would have been an email connection.

• 1:28:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  Early in freshman year, you're checking in. You're homesick, you're checking in.

• 1:28:52Chris Ryan?

  I can't remember. I mean, like, I, I think I was calling, like, like, once every couple of days.

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  I have a nitpick with Madison as a ghost.

• 1:29:03Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:29:04Bill Simmons?

  She was on my list as well.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  I have an unanswerable question for that category, which we'll get to, but on the nitpicking front.

• 1:29:12Speaker 01

  The amount of time she's taking to repeatedly type her initials, M E F, M E F, M E F, M E F, M E F, M E F. Type out, your husband fucked me, killed me, and disposed of my body, and I have returned to you in paranormal form to tell you this.

• 1:29:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  Why is Madison typing her initials?

• 1:29:31Bill Simmons?

  Like Swayze and Ghost, where you can just kind of, you could kind of push.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  This is very inefficient. Well, then type like, we're getting on the mirror, you know. Type, he did it. So come on, Madison.

• 1:29:45Bill Simmons?

  Fair.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  Put in a little more work here.

• 1:29:47Bill Simmons?

  M E F, why not just write Madison over M E F?

• 1:29:49Chris Ryan?

  I know.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, absurd, absurd. I don't, but that's a, that's a function of a not great script more than it is something I believe Madison the ghost would do.

• 1:29:58Bill Simmons?

  I had a coop on, where, where is coop in the last 40 minutes of this movie?

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, and also why?

• 1:30:06Bill Simmons?

  His parents are fighting, like that's gonna enrage a dog.

• 1:30:09Chris Ryan?

  He's in and out of the house a lot. It seems like, because when he disappears that night, she's just like, have it your way.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  She tried, she yells his name once from the porch and they're just like, oh, good.

• 1:30:16Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, if that's Murph, there's no deaths in that house. Murph's protecting everybody.

• 1:30:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah?

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  He's on it.

• 1:30:20Chris Ryan?

  Where'd he go?

• 1:30:21Bill Simmons?

  The Murph that wouldn't have liked any of that, the bathtub drowning never happens with Murph.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 1:30:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Murph's.

• 1:30:26Chris Ryan?

  Murph, Murph does CPR?

• 1:30:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he would have like thawed the water to make the bathtub go down.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  A compress on any wound.

• 1:30:33Bill Simmons?

  What about the paralysis drug, by the way? What drug is that, that her feet were kinda working?

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:39Bill Simmons?

  Is it six minutes?

• 1:30:40Speaker 01

  It's, we learn earlier in the film, it's three to five, right? So then he's like, oh, it's wearing off, right? And then gets the pill bottle because he's gonna stage the suicide.

• 1:30:49Bill Simmons?

  Again, terrible murderer, whoa.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  Brutal, and he's using something from his own place of work that could like, I assume be traced to him. But again, maybe he's like, well, they gave up on Madison pretty quickly. They're not gonna really look into this, but it's defensible. While she's got the drug fading out of her system, this is one of my big picking nits. I am not a physicist. Vectors, angles, et cetera, it's not my specialty. However, I feel confident in saying, nothing we're doing with the foot to pull the cord that way. And certainly, the shower head, lifting the cord to the shower head to turn.

• 1:31:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's hard to do when you're not paralyzed.

• 1:31:25Speaker 01

  Turn the hot water knob. I just don't believe any of that would be, be possible in that state or, or at all.

• 1:31:31Bill Simmons?

  I agree.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  She should have died, she should have drowned. That's what, how the movie should have ended.

• 1:31:37Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast or untouchable? All black cast, I'm not against.

• 1:31:42Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:31:43Bill Simmons?

  Did think that on Tubi, I might give that a whirl.

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  This would be like a good prestige TV, like a eight episode Apple season.

• 1:31:49Chris Ryan?

  The year before, you would have to have like the, you'd almost have to have the affair.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  Do you get any flashbacks?

• 1:31:56Chris Ryan?

  Well, it depends on how much you want to get into the supernatural part versus what you want to do with Norman and his, and his affairs.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  What don't I want to do with Norman?

• 1:32:05Bill Simmons?

  Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Buffalo Bill, Fergie the Florist, Byron Mayo, Dana Olafsky, or William Brimley and the firm?

• 1:32:11Chris Ryan?

  I like the idea of Fergie from, uh, the town being like, "You're gonna do this for me. You're gonna dump you in the lake, just like I dumped Madison. I did her the chemical way.

• 1:32:25Chris Ryan?

  Give her a Harrison Ford taste.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:30Chris Ryan?

  Oh, she doped up good and proper.

• 1:32:35Bill Simmons?

  I love Fergie the Florist so much.

• 1:32:37Chris Ryan?

  Fergie the Florist is-

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  Great one.

• 1:32:38Chris Ryan?

  Is one of my faves.

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  You don't want Wayne there as local law enforcement?

• 1:32:42Chris Ryan?

  We retired Wayne.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  Checking in on Madison?

• 1:32:43Chris Ryan?

  Wayne, Wayne is, Wayne is-

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  What a tragedy.

• 1:32:45Chris Ryan?

  Wayne blew his knee out.

• 1:32:47Bill Simmons?

  Wayne had a four-year run.

• 1:32:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:49Bill Simmons?

  He was like Earl Campbell.

• 1:32:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:50Speaker 01

  Wayne's a turtle.

• 1:32:51Chris Ryan?

  He transferred a couple of times.

• 1:32:54Chris Ryan?

  Wayne, Wayne's going to Indiana now.

• 1:32:58Bill Simmons?

  I'm not gonna do Olafsky. I enjoyed Fergie the Florist. Uh, just want to ask her who gets it. I don't know.

• 1:33:05Speaker 01

  Definitely Pfeiffer. I think, no question.

• 1:33:08Chris Ryan?

  I would, I would do Zemeckis, Don Burgess, the cinematography.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:33:11Bill Simmons?

  This was an Oscar movie.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Well, no, certainly not.

• 1:33:14Bill Simmons?

  Probably in the answerable questions, we already talked about why would anyone ever fuck with the Ouija board? And then, uh, I wrote down Claire, number one movie character widow catch ever.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:33:24Bill Simmons?

  You get the house, she still looks great.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Trust issues, though. Major trust issues.

• 1:33:29Bill Simmons?

  Scarred by last relationship, you can win that back and really build her back up.

• 1:33:32Chris Ryan?

  No further questions from law enforcement about what happened?

• 1:33:35Bill Simmons?

  True, true.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  Free to visit the gravesite.

• 1:33:37Bill Simmons?

  Got a new necklace she's wearing, looks great at parties, um, vindicated by her, by, in the community because people now realize her husband was driving her crazy.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  You're not worried about the trust issues? Calcifying?

• 1:33:49Bill Simmons?

  No. I mean, on a scale of one to Tiger Woods's wife, I think it's like a 9.2.

• 1:33:56Chris Ryan?

  Shout out to Ellen.

• 1:33:57Bill Simmons?

  Tiger Woods's wife?

• 1:33:58Chris Ryan?

  Incredible. Hadn't thought about her in a while.

• 1:34:00Bill Simmons?

  Inheriting like 700 million dollars or, or the, in the settlement, plus look great?

• 1:34:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:07Chris Ryan?

  She's really kept it

• 1:34:07Bill Simmons?

  I thought Craig would have my back.

• 1:34:08Chris Ryan?

  Under the radar.

• 1:34:10Bill Simmons?

  Which one?

• 1:34:10Chris Ryan?

  Ellen, Tiger's ex.

• 1:34:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:12Bill Simmons?

  Great job by her.

• 1:34:13Chris Ryan?

  Like, where's she at?

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  She's up in Scandinavia.

• 1:34:15Bill Simmons?

  Spending Tiger's money.

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:16Chris Ryan?

  I had a couple of unanswerables.

• 1:34:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  Same.

• 1:34:20Chris Ryan?

  If Norman had just been like, "Sounds great, let's go to Adamant."

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:23Chris Ryan?

  Love that place?

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  He would've been fine.

• 1:34:25Chris Ryan?

  Is he fine?

• 1:34:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's fine.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  I think she's never letting it go, but he buys more time. He buys more time.

• 1:34:31Chris Ryan?

  Is Claire's supernatural experience all a side effect of Jody's mushroom tea that she gives her in the beginning of the movie?

• 1:34:38Speaker 01

  And how does she pronounce it?

• 1:34:40Chris Ryan?

  I can't remember.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  Kambuka.

• 1:34:42Chris Ryan?

  Kambuka.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  Which is not correct. That's a wild moment in the movie.

• 1:34:45Bill Simmons?

  So now are they doing like, like, uh, 2.5 mushrooms?

• 1:34:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Bill Simmons?

  Or 5 point?

• 1:34:50Chris Ryan?

  She's 0.5s.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're microdosing, for sure.

• 1:34:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:52Bill Simmons?

  Can't really talk to this.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  Claire microdosing would be great, actually. I would enjoy that, for sure.

• 1:34:56Chris Ryan?

  There is a lot, there's a lot of story to tell here.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  There is. Me and Clark should run it back, after all. Why did Madison's-

• 1:35:01Bill Simmons?

  I was offered a 0.25 gummy on New Year's Eve and turned it down. Cause I'm bad at drugs.

• 1:35:06Chris Ryan?

  Of psilocybin?

• 1:35:07Bill Simmons?

  I'm just not good at drugs anymore.

• 1:35:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  You don't like an edible?

• 1:35:11Bill Simmons?

  Not good at drugs anymore. Had a great run.

• 1:35:12Chris Ryan?

  I think you should just hold out until-

• 1:35:14Bill Simmons?

  Bring it back?

• 1:35:14Chris Ryan?

  You go into a big blow era, you know?

• 1:35:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, just write the cocaine.

• 1:35:18Bill Simmons?

  Supposedly coming back.

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah?

• 1:35:22Bill Simmons?

  That's what I heard.

• 1:35:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:23Bill Simmons?

  We're in the street. Tell us more, Craig.

• 1:35:27Speaker 01

  Um, why did Madison's ghost wait one year to start haunting Claire and Norman? Why, why the delay?

• 1:35:33Chris Ryan?

  No, she had to get unlocked, right? Didn't?

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  Well, eventually we built her like the braid. That's another unanswerable question is like, why is there a lock of her hair? But she's, but she's haunting her before then, right? So what is, what is the, why one year?

• 1:35:47Bill Simmons?

  The braid gave her the superpower, though.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  The braid we left up, for sure. But why are these, like, do we think Claire was just missing these signs until this point in time and they'd been there? Or Madison was like, "I'm chilling in the lake, decomposing for a year, and now I'm gonna start filling your bathtub." That's the first time the tub has been full. Why?

• 1:36:03Chris Ryan?

  How much is her perception heightened by the fact that she's not concentrating on her daughter? It's, yeah, it's-

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe she wanted Caitlin, wait till Caitlin, maybe that's it. Wait till Caitlin leaves. Right? No innocent bystanders.

• 1:36:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  I like that, okay. What if, this is a big unanswerable question for me. What if the Spencers, and if I'm Norman, I definitely do this in the renovation because I've killed my mistress in that tub, have just a stall shower? What if there's just a freestanding shower, right? A glass shower?

• 1:36:32Bill Simmons?

  No bathtub.

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  How does Madison work her magic then? What tub is she filling?

• 1:36:37Bill Simmons?

  I don't know.

• 1:36:37Speaker 01

  There's not one to fill. What does she do? Where are we seeing the reflection? Obviously, we have mirrors, we have other surfaces, but the tub is so central to how she's able to haunt them? What if Norman had had the foresight to say, "I killed somebody here. I'm gonna make that part of the renovation."

• 1:36:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Just goes shower only.

• 1:36:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Something they should have thought about.

• 1:36:57Bill Simmons?

  It's one of the many reasons he was a terrible murderer.

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  Awful. Bad husband, bad murderer.

• 1:37:02Bill Simmons?

  He comes up in my Coach Finstock Mr. Miyagi word for best or worst life lesson.

• 1:37:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:11Bill Simmons?

  Norm, if you're gonna go through all this hullabaloo to kill your mistress.

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:17Bill Simmons?

  Figure out a better place to dump

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:20Bill Simmons?

  all of her stuff with the necklace. I know we mentioned it earlier, but it has to be mentioned a second time.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:25Bill Simmons?

  That can't be in front of your dock. It's absurd.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:29Bill Simmons?

  And also, like, right in front of your dock. It's not like he took a boat, swam out and threw it in the-

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  He could have just been like, "I'm taking a ferry to Fort Ticonderoga," you know, whatever. Yeah, I mean, he has a boat.

• 1:37:42Bill Simmons?

  That's right.

• 1:37:42Speaker 01

  He has a fucking boat!

• 1:37:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you could throw that anywhere.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  Like, there's no reason not to Ripley it.

• 1:37:47Bill Simmons?

  What piece of memorabilia Ripley? What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? I'd obviously want the Scott Carino photos.

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, of course.

• 1:37:55Bill Simmons?

  I would definitely frame them, give them to Jeff Gallo for Christmas.

• 1:37:57Chris Ryan?

  I'd like Good Jeans, the boat that he's got, but if not, I'd take his outfit from the boat.

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  Is it in the era of Sydney Sweeney, you're going Good Jeans? Interesting.

• 1:38:07Chris Ryan?

  Well, the boat itself is really nice.

• 1:38:09Bill Simmons?

  To me, it's him backing Sydney Sweeney.

• 1:38:12Chris Ryan?

  It's me sailing against cancel culture.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  As you tend to, as you tend to.

• 1:38:16Bill Simmons?

  Queen Sydney is back, by the way. Handmade too, already greenlit.

• 1:38:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Housemaid.

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Housemaid.

• 1:38:21Bill Simmons?

  Housemaid.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Different vibe for, different vibe for Handmade. She's in Handmaid's Tale, it's all right. You're not, you're not picking the braid? You don't want Madison's braid?

• 1:38:30Chris Ryan?

  No, I do not want a ghost braid.

• 1:38:31Bill Simmons?

  Did you guys see Housemaid?

• 1:38:32Chris Ryan?

  I haven't.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Nor will I be. No interest.

• 1:38:35Bill Simmons?

  It is horrible.

• 1:38:37Chris Ryan?

  Is it?

• 1:38:37Speaker 01

  Seems terrible, yeah.

• 1:38:38Bill Simmons?

  It's like, really awful.

• 1:38:40Speaker 01

  Doing really well. Well.

• 1:38:42Bill Simmons?

  It's really awful. It's terrible. It's poor.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  So it's not gonna be a rewatchable.

• 1:38:49Bill Simmons?

  It is not good.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  Not gonna be an instant rewatchable.

• 1:38:51Chris Ryan?

  You're just making sure you don't get on the poster there.

• 1:38:53Bill Simmons?

  It is like shockingly bad. I was stunned by how bad it was.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:38:58Chris Ryan?

  That's awesome.

• 1:38:58Bill Simmons?

  Watched every minute of it. It's cause it's like, it's a From Hell movie. But uh, it's really shockingly. No, it's on the PGA app.

• 1:39:06Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:39:07Bill Simmons?

  Which was funny in itself. Like, I don't know what award it thought it was getting nominated for.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Costume design?

• 1:39:13Bill Simmons?

  Congratulations to everyone involved.

• 1:39:18Bill Simmons?

  Best double feature choice.

• 1:39:21Bill Simmons?

  You could go Baker Boys in this movie as like a little bookend.

• 1:39:26Chris Ryan?

  You know what you talked me into is Panic Room.

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  That's fun.

• 1:39:28Bill Simmons?

  Ooh.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 1:39:29Chris Ryan?

  Stuck in the house.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  I would either wanna do Ford Actually Is the Bad Guy and pair it with Mosquito Coast, or a more ambiguous property of like, part of the journey of discovery is, is he guilty or not guilty and pair it with either the fugitive or presumed innocent.

• 1:39:44Bill Simmons?

  Some people wanted us to do Who Lost the Movie Before Who Won the Movie, but I, I think that's, Who Lost the Movie's gonna be too hard.

• 1:39:51Chris Ryan?

  Too negative.

• 1:39:51Bill Simmons?

  It's a category, yeah.

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  Not really this hard this time.

• 1:39:55Chris Ryan?

  I would say, yeah, we can pass on that category. I was gonna say,

• 1:39:59Bill Simmons?

  Who Won the Movie?

• 1:40:00Chris Ryan?

  I would say Zemeckis might have lost this one, just because he, he comes back with Cast Away and everything, and I understand.

• 1:40:05Speaker 01

  Not Agent Phil Coulson, Clark Craig?

• 1:40:07Bill Simmons?

  I mean, this made 300 million dollars. I'm sure he feels like it was a dub.

• 1:40:10Chris Ryan?

  I just feel like he doesn't.

• 1:40:11Bill Simmons?

  I don't like Who Lost the Movie, yeah. We'll know when it's the right time to do that. Who Won the Movie, though?

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  Pfeiffer.

• 1:40:17Bill Simmons?

  I think Pfeiffer.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  Michelle.

• 1:40:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Craig?

• 1:40:22Speaker 03

  Rock solid. Enjoyed it?

• 1:40:23Bill Simmons?

  Oh, we're up to a good 2026.

• 1:40:26Speaker 03

  It's a great movie to discuss right after it ends, because there's so many red herrings that don't, that don't tie up. Like, the four of us, the four people that I watched with, we just like talked about it for half an hour, being like, so wait, why did he try to kill himself in the tub? Why did he fake the death in the tub? What was up with the neighbor? I do think, I don't, I don't love the end of this movie. I do think the end kind of drops this from an eight to a seven. I think like reanimating her and the water was unnecessary.

• 1:40:51Chris Ryan?

  I think they could have ended it at the house.

• 1:40:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, or it's like, I don't mind her showing up on the bridge and causes him to drive off. But adding her below, like physically ripping him down, I don't know, it went a little too far there, I feel like. But the other thing is I don't like seeing evil Harrison Ford, I just don't. We need a category for like, that's my friend, I hate this.

• 1:41:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:41:11Bill Simmons?

  Please don't.

• 1:41:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  That's why it's great.

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  He's my pal. I don't want to see him evil. I don't want to see him killing women.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  But they're like weaponizing your expectation that he's

• 1:41:19Speaker 03

  I completely get it. I don't like it.

• 1:41:21Speaker 01

  That he's Decker, that he's Han Solo.

• 1:41:23Bill Simmons?

  So what's the Tom Cruise movie for that? Please don't do this, he's my friend.

• 1:41:28Speaker 03

  Like, could you do this for every great actor? Like, what's like, your favorite actor, what's the movie they're in where you're like, oh, don't do that. Don't do that today.

• 1:41:34Bill Simmons?

  For Tom Cruise, it was Interview the Vampire.

• 1:41:37Chris Ryan?

  That's a really good question.

• 1:41:39Speaker 03

  You know? Like me seeing Harrison Ford in this, I'm like, ugh, that's my guy. I hate, I hate watching this.

• 1:41:44Chris Ryan?

  I'm trying to think of like a Colin Farrell movie where I'm like, oh, please, not, not like this. Honestly, I, this is one of the reasons why I'm like

• 1:41:51Bill Simmons?

  That's the name of the category, not like this.

• 1:41:53Chris Ryan?

  I don't actually, I think one of the reasons why I had a hard time watching The Penguin is I was like, this is my guy. You know, like

• 1:41:59Speaker 01

  Dude, he's dynamite in that.

• 1:42:01Chris Ryan?

  But I just want him to be beautiful. You know, he's Colin Farrell.

• 1:42:05Bill Simmons?

  You want to be a fiend for Mahino.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  Odd job is a lot of things, but beautiful is not one of them.

• 1:42:09Bill Simmons?

  Trying to think what Denzel's not like this movie is.

• 1:42:13Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Roman J. Esquire, what was that?

• 1:42:16Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Roman J. Israel?

• 1:42:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I didn't like that movie that much.

• 1:42:21Speaker 03

  Also, you bringing up Housemaid, not Handmaid, Housemaid.

• 1:42:24Chris Ryan?

  Housemaid.

• 1:42:25Speaker 03

  I feel like

• 1:42:26Bill Simmons?

  Really bad.

• 1:42:27Speaker 03

  What this movie does, like, this movie has two A-listers in it, right? Now, the movie Housemaid, I guess Sidney Sweetin and Amanda Seyfried are, are big names, but

• 1:42:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:37Speaker 03

  They don't, the B movie with the A-listers doesn't happen anymore.

• 1:42:41Chris Ryan?

  Not as much.

• 1:42:41Speaker 03

  Now, like for this movie to be remade now with the same star power, it would be like Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway in this movie, which would be awesome. But they just don't do that anymore. And I, I enjoy the B movie with the A-lister, but it's more rare now because they won't do it.

• 1:42:56Bill Simmons?

  Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway in What Lies Beneath is exactly what 2025's version of this movie would be.

• 1:43:02Chris Ryan?

  But they needed, like, that would, it would either be a Christopher Nolan movie, which would be like, this is $300 million or whatever, or it would be-

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  And it's about time.

• 1:43:11Chris Ryan?

  A B movie that goes to streaming.

• 1:43:12Speaker 03

  Or it's like, really small indie 824, and there's like, something less, much more dark and upsetting and serious about it. It's not just like a, you know, a ghost story.

• 1:43:22Bill Simmons?

  You know who they couldn't do that with? Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh, because they don't work together anymore. They fired him.

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  I think it was the right decision.

• 1:43:31Bill Simmons?

  Because you're rookie kicker.

• 1:43:33Speaker 01

  Well, it's not Tyler Loops' fault.

• 1:43:35Bill Simmons?

  You went two yards backwards to make a kick harder on him.

• 1:43:38Speaker 01

  It's not Tyler Loops' fault, he's innocent in all of this.

• 1:43:40Bill Simmons?

  Fireball offense.

• 1:43:42Chris Ryan?

  For the kicker or for the coach?

• 1:43:43Bill Simmons?

  For the coach.

• 1:43:44Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Well, guess what? He got fired.

• 1:43:45Bill Simmons?

  Time to go.

• 1:43:46Speaker 01

  Not for that, I think, but for anything.

• 1:43:48Bill Simmons?

  What are you trying to center the ball for, you dumbass, here in Pittsburgh on a night game?

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  Time for some fresh blood and new ideas, you know?

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  Did you have a problem with that in the moment? Then, the 12 seconds with the timeout?

• 1:43:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  You did.

• 1:43:58Bill Simmons?

  Who doesn't? Pittsburgh's a house of horrors. Nobody likes getting a field goal ever in Pittsburgh.

• 1:44:03Speaker 03

  The Dantys disagreed. I thought, as a Steelers fan, I was like, I'm thrilled they're not trying to get five more yards right now.

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  Losing yards is absurd. Not trying to gain any yards is absurd. I texted my dad in real time and I said, goes to Billy Quintero. Which, of course, was even more dire in a number of respects, but-

• 1:44:16Bill Simmons?

  That one was worse, though, because Lee Evans had the ball and Sterling Moore, who was like this-

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  Well, the situation, I mean, it was a closer kick, all of it, but like-

• 1:44:24Chris Ryan?

  I still think it's really funny because Derwin James is gonna like, break Drake May's sternum now.

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 1:44:31Chris Ryan?

  Like, he's just like, let's fuck with the Ravens some more. It's like, it's definitely just, you're seeding it. You're seeding it. It's gonna be your fault.

• 1:44:39Bill Simmons?

  I think it's gonna be Jacksonville that gets us.

• 1:44:41Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Jacksonville, interesting.

• 1:44:44Bill Simmons?

  We'll see. CR, pleasure as always. Mao, the pleasure was mine. Craig, thank you. Gahao, pleasure.

• 1:44:53Speaker 03

  Eduardo.

• 1:44:53Bill Simmons?

  Eduardo, wherever you are, thank you. Oh, Eduardo and I go head to head this weekend. Who knows? We might not even be talking by the time people hear this.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:45:01Bill Simmons?

  Uh, rewatch post. Thank you, everybody.

• 1:45:16Bill Simmons?

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