ON REJECTION… With Mel B and Nicole Scherzinger

We all face rejection, no matter who we are. In this episode we revisit conversations with two extraordinary women who have faced rejection and overcome it: Spice Girl Mel B opens up about her unsuccessful audition for The Sound of Music and the pain of feeling like she didn’t fit the mould because of how she looked while Nicole shares what life was like before the Pussycat Dolls - the endless auditions, doors slammed-shut and the struggle to land her big break. Hearing these stories from women who have gone on to achieve so much is a powerful reminder that feelings of doubt and fears around not being ‘enough’ are universal. But as Mel and Nicole remind us, the true test of character is in how we respond to them. Listen to Mel B’s full episode of How to Fail here: swap.fm/l/MelB Listen to Nicole Scherzinger’s full episode of How to Fail here: swap.fm/l/NicoleScherzinger 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @howtofailpod @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod @elizabday Website: www.elizabethday.org Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Elizabeth Day?

  One of the things I hear a lot from listeners is how tiring it can be when your mind just doesn't settle. And I can only imagine this feels even heavier with intrusive thoughts. It's that quiet sense of being worn down by something you never asked for and never wanted, but just can't seem to switch off. If you struggle with this, I want to tell you about NoCD, because it's a resource that genuinely helps people. NoCD provides specialised treatment for OCD. And what I appreciate about their approach is how human it feels. You're matched with a licensed therapist trained in ERP therapy. That's Exposure and Response Prevention. And over time, you learn skills that help your OCD symptoms become manageable, so you can live more of the life you want to live.

• 0:45Elizabeth Day?

  If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15-minute call to get started at learn.nocd.com/fail. Confession time. I have a tendency to postpone certain decisions for far longer than is sensible. Not the big life decisions, oddly enough, those I can usually handle. It's the smaller ones that somehow become disproportionately complicated. For me, rugs fall squarely into that category. I've known for a long time that a rug can completely change how a room feels, but I've always found sizing for a space tricky. That's why Ernesta appealed to me.

• 1:26Elizabeth Day?

  Ernesta makes designer-quality rugs, custom-cut to the exact dimensions of your space. So instead of making do with something that's close enough, you're choosing something made specifically for your home. I also love the fact that you can order five oversized 12 by 12 samples for just $10 before committing. And Ernesta's design team will help with sizing completely free of charge. Visit ernestacom and order five samples for only $10 and you'll get $50 towards any rug of your choice. That's ernestacom. Rejecting is something that every single one of us will have faced. And, as it turns out, even global superstars aren't immune. Take Spice Girl Mel B.

• 2:10Elizabeth Day?

  Before the fame, she was just a young girl auditioning for The Sound of Music and failing to land a spot as one of the Von Trapps. But it was in that moment, with her parents' encouragement, that she learned the work ethic that would later define her success. And then there's Nicole Scherzinger. You might imagine she seamlessly leapt into stardom with the pussycat dolls, but her path was far from smooth. Nicole talks about dropping out of college to tour with a band called Pop Stars, facing rejection after rejection, before her big break finally came. Because even the most successful women in the world have heard no more times than you'd think. And what makes them extraordinary is how

• 2:52Elizabeth Day?

  they turned those rejections into resilience. Here's Mel B.

• 2:59Elizabeth Day?

  Let's get on to your first failure, because it's sort of linked to what we've just been discussing, which is a failed audition for being a Von Trapp child in a production of The Sound of Music.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember this very, very well. I got raised in a household, my dad's black, from the West Indies, from Nevis, my mum's white, born and raised up north in Leeds. So they're a mixed couple, which back in those days, there was a lot of stigma attached to that. There was a lot of NF, National Fronts. For example, my mum used to have to hand me to my dad on the bus so that he wouldn't get beaten up for being black and black with a white woman. So I got brought up with a very, a very even outlook. I'm not black, I'm not white, I'm mixed. And I love that, because I had friends before at school that were mixed. And I couldn't understand why they'd just call themselves black, or just call themselves just white. I'd be like, but you're mixed, that's your

• 3:55Speaker 01

  mum and your dad, you've got the best of both worlds.

• 3:58Elizabeth Day?

  Just quickly, what do you think of the term biracial?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  I don't get it.

• 4:02Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  I don't get it, and I don't appreciate it.

• 4:04Elizabeth Day?

  Good to know. Because some people hate being called mixed.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  It used to really annoy me that. When I used to fill out the passport form, it'd be black, white, or other. Now it's black, white, mixed with this, mixed with that, this and that. And I think, no, I'm just mixed. And I'm proud of that. So my mother got me into dance class. It was like 10 p for me to go for an hour, I think it was like three times a week. So, and because I had lots of energy, my mum was like, oh god, give me a break. She's coming from school, she's done her homework, I'll put her in dance class down the street. So I became obsessed with just performing. And so there was an audition that a few of my friends were going to, and it was for the Von Trapp family. And my mum, in a very, very mum way, tried to explain, you know, you're not gonna get it because you're not white with blonde hair and blue eyes.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Not that she said that, and I blocked that out anyway. I was like, no, it's an audition because once they see me, they're gonna, they're gonna want me to be part of the stage performance. Finally, she got in the car and drove me and still on the journey there, she's like, Melanie, are you sure you wanna do this? Because, you know, and I was like, I am adamant, I am gonna go to that audition, I'm gonna nail it, and I'm gonna get the job. Anyway, I didn't get the job because it was far easier back in those days to say, oh, you're too this, you're too that. Now, we can't be as direct and, and rightly so. But that just goes to show that even though I knew it deep down, I didn't care. I still wanted to make sure that I went there so they could see me perform regardless of my colour.

• 5:35Elizabeth Day?

  So many things strike me about this story. One is your incredible work ethic, and that's something that I feel like you've always had.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, my mum and dad had that.

• 5:42Elizabeth Day?

  You will just prove yourself.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:44Elizabeth Day?

  Again and again and again.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:46Elizabeth Day?

  Where do you think that work ethic came from for your mum and your dad? Different places, I imagine.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Well, my dad came to England, I think, when he was, was he nine? His grandmother looked after him in Nevis, and that, and that was quite common back in those days. So when he came over, he didn't really know his parents, didn't, didn't really fit in in school. So he learnt how to weld copper because back in those days, if you learn a trade, you're set for life, really, you'll always have a job. So I was raised with my dad doing one week of morning shifts, one week of afternoon shifts, one week of night shifts. And it was a routine, and my dad never missed a day, no matter hail, rain or snow. And he used to, he used to ride his bike to work. My mum took on an extra job because of the ten p a week dance classes and stuff like that, and costumes that she would hand make.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  So I've always known if you, you, you've got to rely on yourself, you can't rely on anybody else, you've got to make your own money.

• 6:41Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm. The other thing that strikes me about it is that you do not complain.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:46Elizabeth Day?

  You get on with it and you don't moan.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:50Elizabeth Day?

  Which is, which is many things. It's, it's, it's quite northern, just to like generalize horribly.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  It is quite northern.

• 6:56Elizabeth Day?

  It's quite showbiz, like the show must go on.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  I don't know, there's some celebrities that moan about everything.

• 7:03Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, you're not one of them. I mean, it's two schools.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Today, I'm not.

• 7:09Elizabeth Day?

  Who are they? Name them.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  No, I can't. Jerry Halliwell, no, I'm joking.

• 7:15Elizabeth Day?

  But there are moments in Bruce Lee Honest where you do talk about the fact that the National Front was a presence, that you got, you got called horrible names at school.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:24Elizabeth Day?

  You did get bullied, but what was your response?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Well, my mum and dad used to say for a start, fight your own battles, even though you'd been chased all the way from school to the house, which was, God, about a good 25 minute run. Because back then, they didn't know what to call me. Did they call me half-breed? Did they call me the N-word? And I'd be like, I'm mixed. And then I'd run, run away because they was trying to get me. But I fought my own battles.

• 7:48Elizabeth Day?

  So when you got rejected for the Von Chat family?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  I just went, whatever, that's their loss. But I was inside, I was crushed. But I went to a lot of auditions. And I'm thankful for that time because literally, at an audition back in those days, you'd get told, no, too thin, too fat, too dark, too light. It'd be that brutal. So you'd go, oh, okay then. Well, I'm not going to have an eating disorder because I like my booty. I'm just going to go to another audition.

• 8:15Elizabeth Day?

  Those rejections taught you a lot about resilience?

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:18Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  I think that's you. If you ask anybody from back in those days when they were auditioning, they would all have like rhino skin, hard skin. It is a northern thing. You just pick yourself up and you just keep going.

• 8:30Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm. Were the other Spice Girls like that? Had they had similar?

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll see very much. I think we all were in our own individual ways because we were like the rejects out of all of our different groups of friends. So coming together, you know, we, that's why we were so strong and we felt such a connection because we were all not hard done by, but we didn't really fit in anywhere. But yet we fitted together, even though we were all completely different looking and from completely different backgrounds, really. But I mean, when I think about it, Jerry's mum, I mean, she, she was a cleaner. Her dad was a car salesman. Victoria's slightly different because she got driven to school in a Rolls Royce, but she still had to work hard. You know, Mel C, single parent, got re, got brought up in Liverpool. So we've all had our

• 9:18Speaker 01

  like not perfect family lives, if you want to call it that.

• 9:22Elizabeth Day?

  And he became your chosen family in a way.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Oh, one hundred percent.

• 9:25Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  And we went through something so special that only the five of us really can know what that feels like, because to have such a whirlwind and have so many doors closed like in our face, girl band's not going to work. We're like, well, why not? Surrounded by boy bands, right? We get it. But why, why isn't this going to work? So we're going to knock on another door and another door and another door until, until we find somebody that believed in us.

• 9:50Elizabeth Day?

  You know, there are so many incredible Spice Girls tracks, but my personal favourite is Holler, which I think is quite underrated. I loved it.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  How we used to write is we'd all come in with some kind of a topic or a theme, but it was always driven by one of our situations or the fact that, you know, we didn't want to be picked on anymore. So we have to make sure it's clear that we are girls supporting girls.

• 10:12Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  And not where it goes too much into the fantasy world. It's genuinely us five, because we really like each other.

• 10:19Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, that's so great. And you're also so good about putting out into the universe the fact that you want the Spice Girls reunion to happen.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  I always say it, and it will.

• 10:26Elizabeth Day?

  Okay, good. It will.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  It will. No, we are actually in talks, all five of us, but I can't say what for.

• 10:33Elizabeth Day?

  Let's get on to your first failure.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Yay.

• 10:36Elizabeth Day?

  Yay, because we're here to celebrate vulnerability and authenticity.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  And that's how we learn and grow and evolve.

• 10:42Elizabeth Day?

  Exactly. Your first failure is to do with the struggles that got you where you are today.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Hmm. I remember, I think it was around 2008, I was in New York City and I was with my manager at the time and I had worked so hard on this demo and this portfolio with pictures. And I even did my own music video and songs that I recorded and original songs that I recorded. I was shopping it around, determined to get a solo deal. I went around to every record label. And during that day, it was the actual blackout, the big blackout that happened in New York City. And there I was in Arista, top of this building, blackout happens, the execs running around, I'm singing my song a cappella in the dark. And he's like,

• 11:35Speaker 02

  keep going. And he's like grabbing his stuff, freaking out. And then he just bolts out of the door and goes down the fire escape, as you do in New York City. And that was my last end of my audition. Couldn't cut a break. No one would pick me up and I was really down about that. But what was great is that I still had that portfolio. So when I had heard about the Pussycat Dolls audition, I was fully equipped to give them my music and everything. And the rest was, the rest was history. So that, that happened with PCD. I don't think people realizes that for a

• 12:14Speaker 02

  long time before the Pussycat Dolls. I was first in a group called Pop Stars. And first I was in an actual rock group, acoustic rock group, signed to Geffen Records called Days of the New. And we toured with like Foo Fighters and Bush and everything. Then I was in Pop Stars. And then I was trying to go solo. And that led me to the Dolls. People don't realize.

• 12:45Elizabeth Day?

  The journey.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, all the, all the doors closed.

• 12:50Elizabeth Day?

  Yes. Well, because you dropped out of college to tour with that rock band as well, didn't you?

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Yes, I did.

• 12:56Elizabeth Day?

  And then Pop Stars was the reality TV show and you formed Eden's Crush off the back of that.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:02Elizabeth Day?

  And I didn't know either. So I'm really glad that you've shared that story. The idea of doing an audition in a citywide blackout.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  In a blackout.

• 13:10Elizabeth Day?

  And then having to pick yourself up and try again.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Keep, keep trying and keep, um, I just, yeah, when you have, you have to believe, you have to have that vision and you just can't let go of it. Cause if you could see it, if you could dream it, then it could happen. And so I just never let up. And then the Dolls came along that audition. And what's cool is that I never imagined that's how I would get my first break. And I actually signed a solo deal the same day as I signed the Dolls deal.

• 13:42Elizabeth Day?

  Wow.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  So it's, I'm just saying, things come in different boxes, not when you expect them, right? Like for me, I'm very spiritual. So I like to say that God has bigger plans and a bigger imagination than we could ever, we actually limit ourselves with how we think. So sometimes we think like, okay, I want to go this way. And it's like, no, you're actually aligned and meant to go that way. And that's going to get you to go back that way. Does that make any sense?

• 14:06Elizabeth Day?

  It makes total sense. And I, I'm a big believer in it as well. The things that haven't worked out for me personally. I strive to try and learn the meaning behind that and the purpose that might be disguised within that struggle.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Exactly, like things aren't happening. One of my favorite lines is, it's not happening to me, it's happening for me.

• 14:26Elizabeth Day?

  I want to talk a little bit about your work ethic because what listeners to this podcast might not appreciate is that you turned up with notes that you had made, pages and pages, yellow full scap notes that you had made in preparation for this podcast.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:43Elizabeth Day?

  I'm so appreciative of that and I recognize that quality in myself. And again, I think maybe a lot of women.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can see that as you're like telling, reminding me of my own career and my track record. I'm like, wow, she knows more about myself than I do.

• 14:56Elizabeth Day?

  But I think a lot of women, or maybe marginalized people in some way, feel that they need to over prepare in order to be able to show up, in order to be able not to be underestimated by mainstream culture. And I want to ask you a bit about that, but I also just want to go back to your childhood. How much do you think your work ethic is shaped by how you grew up? Because you didn't have a lot of money growing up.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 15:23Elizabeth Day?

  So were you always aware of the need to work to make a living?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Absolutely. When you grow up not having any money and your family is struggling, it's kind of embarrassing. It's really embarrassing. Then as you get older, I thank God every day that I came from nothing because it's what made me, it's what shaped me. It didn't break me, you know, it, it made me. What doesn't break you makes you. And it's built me to who I am today. And I, I do have that very strong work ethic because of it, that insatiable work ethic. I think it runs in my blood as well, my Hawaiian, Ukrainian, Filipino blood, it runs in our blood. But I'm, I'm super grateful for it because I

• 16:11Speaker 02

  don't take anything for granted. And I always feel like I'm always striving for excellence and greatness. I think it could drive some of the people who work around me crazy because I'm like, it could always be better. I still tell Jamie, I, I can do better. I know I can do better. I just always want to strive for greatness and excellence. Otherwise, I feel like I'm not making it count and I'm wasting my time here of what I'm supposed to truly be doing.

• 16:39Elizabeth Day?

  Does that manifest itself in your romantic relationship?

• 16:43Speaker 02

  I think so. I think in an, sometimes it could be unhealthy in that way when not only in a romantic relationship, but also with the relationship with yourself where you work too much, that you're not able to celebrate those wins and those victories and just truly be present and be happy and be in awe and enjoy those moments, you know?

• 17:06Elizabeth Day?

  There was this quote I read that made me sad about, I think one of your first parts that you got aged fourteen was the lead in Alice in Wonderland. And you had said, I couldn't believe that I got this part because I was up against a blonde girl with blue eyes. Is that a feeling that has stayed with you, that feeling of not looking the part or not being some way that someone else is?

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Well, I think that's what's so beautiful now of where we've progressed into this day and age, you know? I'm playing Norma Desmond, you know, and people might have not, I think I saw Lea Salonga and I stored it the other day, said three Filipinos are now leading, unleading roles on the West End, like it's never been like that in history, you know, so we've come a long way since then. But back then, yeah, that was unheard of. But my teacher, Ms. Mateus, was so radical in the way that she thought and she just defied, she broke all the rules and she didn't care. And she looked at me and she's like, that's Alice in Wonderland. And that was many moons

• 18:17Speaker 02

  ago. I mean, gosh, I'm forty five now. That was what, twenty six years ago. I mean, so kudos for her for being so forward thinking and giving me that opportunity. But yes, that the fact of the matter was, was back then it was like that. You know, I was like a little brownie. I didn't look like everybody else in Louisville, Kentucky, growing up. But that's what the blessing was, is that I makes me makes me so unique today, you know.

• 18:45Elizabeth Day?

  And at the time, what were your parents thinking of your ambition and your vision to be?

• 18:51Speaker 02

  They just let me go.

• 18:52Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  They knew when I was like six years old and I heard the greatest love of all. Um, Whitney Houston was like the voice of God to me and I just, they knew that I had my own ambitions. I was always had this dream and vision and they just supported me. Like I said, we didn't come from much, so it's not like they're like, go and be a doctor or a lawyer. They're like, wow, you're taking the wheel.

• 19:20Elizabeth Day?

  Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.