Ep. 360: One-Page Productivity

Trying to stick to complicated time management systems without any breaks can eventually lead to burn out. But if you stop organizational efforts altogether, your life can become a stressful mess. In this episode, Cal taps the wisdom of an elite running coach to devise what he calls one-page productivity: a minimum time management system, meant to be run for limited periods to help you recharge, but that also maintains just enough organization that you can avoid disaster. He argues such maintenance modes should be an important part of any time management practice. Cal then answers listener questions and concludes by reviewing the books he read in June 2025. Below are the questions covered in today's episode (with their timestamps). Get your questions answered by Cal! Here’s the link: bit.ly/3U3sTvo Video from today’s episode: youtube.com/calnewportmedia Deep Dive: One-Page Productivity [1:52] How do you approach decisions when you’re torn between two reasonable options? [18:17] How can I navigate teaching with phone addicted teenagers? [22:06] Have you considered using LLM’s to assist in your writing? [28:03] How many “thinking” walks do you take each week? [32:31] Do you have any recommendations for learning new material outside of the structured framework of a course? [35:00] CASE STUDY: A son explains his parents lifestyle engineering [37:21] CALL: Setting up workflows as a manager [41:09] JUNE BOOKS: The 5 Books Cal Read in June, 2025 [52:05] The Magic of Code (Samuel Arbesman) In the Swarm (Byung-Chul Han) The Fear Index (Robert Harriss) The Explore’s Gene (Alex Hutchinson) Skywalking (Dale Pollock) Links: Buy Cal’s latest book, “Slow Productivity” at calnewport.com/slowGet a signed copy of Cal’s “Slow Productivity” at peoplesbooktakoma.com/event/cal-newport/Cal’s monthly book directory: bramses.notion.site/059db2641def4a88988b4d2cee4657ba?nytimes.com/athletic/6453809/2025/06/27/bruce-bochy-walking-exercise-creativity/ Thanks to our Sponsors: cozyearth.com (Use code “DEEP”)oracle.com/deepquestionsvanta.com/deepquestionsshopify.com/deep Thanks to Jesse Miller for production, Jay Kerstens for the intro music, and Mark Miles for mastering. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Cal Newport?

  I'm Cal Newport and this is Deep Questions, the show about cultivating a deep life in a distracted world.

• 0:23Cal Newport?

  I'm here in my Deep Work HQ, joined as always by my producer Jesse. Jesse, we live in a stupid swamp city.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:30Cal Newport?

  I've never been, I don't think I've sweated more than I sweated trying to go for a walk this afternoon.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  It happens every summer.

• 0:37Cal Newport?

  It is brutal. It is. I think, can we move the podcast to Jaco Willink's studio in San Diego?

• 0:43Speaker 01

  San Diego's so nice.

• 0:45Cal Newport?

  So nice. And his gym. You can even whale on me a little bit in exchange. I think that'd be great. I am, I am excited. My wife and I and some friends are going to see F1 tonight.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Oh, I just read a review about that in the New Yorker.

• 0:57Cal Newport?

  Oh yeah, it was a positive. I haven't read it yet.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  It was very positive. They all of a sudden don't have very positive reviews like that.

• 1:03Cal Newport?

  It's not often their favorite type of movie. Well, here, here's how you know I'm the strange one. My wife and her friends are excited to see Brad Pitt. And I'm excited about Joseph Kozinski's Kinetics and Cinematography. That's all I'm looking for.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  It's supposed to be, I mean, a good review.

• 1:18Cal Newport?

  Yeah. All right. I'm excited now. I'm good to go. Get out of the swamp city into some air conditioner. I'll tell you what we do have right now, however, is a good show. We're going to get into, speaking of hot weather, a topic that I think is relevant to this slower summer season. We got some good questions. We got a call. We got a case study. And because this is the first episode of July, I will review in the third segment, the books I read during June. All right. So I think we got a full dance card here, Jesse. So why don't we get started with our deep dive?

• 1:52Cal Newport?

  So here's the truth about modern time management that we often ignore. The systems required to tame the avalanche of messages and meetings and tasks that bury us in this current world of digital work. These systems are demanding to run. They require focus. They require a lot of energy. So after a while of running these complicated time management systems, we can feel burnt out, which could lead us to consider abandoning formal time management altogether. So I recently set out to find a solution to this issue, and I want to share with you today what I came up with. So I started my quest by noticing that there was a connection between this topic and athletics,

• 2:37Cal Newport?

  right? Because athletes seem to have similar issues in the sense that to do really well in professional sports, you have to train hard. It's really demanding. It uses a lot of energy. You've got to be very careful and precise about how you train. But they know if they train all out all the time, their bodies are going to break down. So athletes seem like they have to deal with this, that they need to do this really hard thing to succeed, but if they do it all the time, they're going to burn out. So I wanted to understand how athletes deal with this a little bit better so that we could translate that understanding over to our world of burning out from having demanding time management systems. So to help out here, I called up my friend Steve Magnus, who is an elite professional running coach. He's also the author of some great books, including notably Do Hard Things and more

• 3:22Cal Newport?

  recently, Win the Inside Game. And here's what he had to tell me. Can you play this clip, Jesse?

• 3:29Speaker 02

  You just can't train hard all the time in athletics. I know in social media and everywhere else, we just think grind, grind, grind is the way we get to the top, but that's not how it actually works. You have to balance the hard work with the recovery. And it's in the recovery that you absorb, you adapt, and often allows you to bounce back and do more hard work when you, you know, get back to it. But the key here that I think most people miss is they think of extremes. Either I'm working really hard or I'm taking time off. And that's not how it works. I like to frame it as either you're building, where you're emphasizing something, you're going for something, or you're maintaining.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Meaning you're doing the minimum dose where you can pick right back up where you left off essentially without de-training because if we just took time off, if we just stopped, if we just said, hey, I'm going to rest for weeks on end, you'd start de-training so much that it would take so long and so much time to get back to even where you were before you took time off that it's not.

• 4:39Cal Newport?

  All right, we'll cut off there. So here's two observations I want to make about that. First, I was right in my instinct that yeah, athletes do have to pull back occasionally from their training schedule. In fact, they have to do this on a regular basis. Steve had a name for this pullback mode. He called it maintenance mode. But second, and this really caught my attention. When they go into maintenance mode, they don't just stop training altogether. They figure out a, what Steve called minimum dose. So just enough exercise for them to maintain their fitness, but avoid what he called the de-training that would set them back so that after they recover in maintenance mode,

• 5:19Cal Newport?

  they are able to kind of pick up more or less where they were without being too far back. So recovery without de-training. This, I think, is a good analogy for thinking about our challenge of demanding time management. What we need to figure out is what is a productivity maintenance mode? In other words, the way I want to think about this is imagine that what we want to do is once or twice a year, go into productivity maintenance mode to try to recharge and take a break from our sort of more demanding organizational time management systems. But figure out a minimum dose of organization that prevents us from falling into chaos or having to start from scratch to organize our lives when the maintenance mode is over.

• 6:04Cal Newport?

  So I want to try to find a system today that could play this role. Now here are the constraints I'm placing on myself in trying to come up with this system. One, it should be enough organization to save you from the acute stress generated from forgetting a task or forgetting a deadline. So we don't want to be so disorganized or disconnected from our work that we have to suffer from acute stress because that sort of defeats the purpose of recovery. Two, I want whatever this system is to prevent you from having to keep track of anything in your head. We know from David Allen that this is a source of background low-key stress that also drains your cognitive capacity. It's a slow trickle of exhaustion that we want to avoid.

• 6:46Cal Newport?

  At the same time, it should also allow you, when you're done with this maintenance mode, to be able to relatively easily go back to a more fully featured time management system of the way, the type that I talk about for Taming, sort of the typical workflow. I want a system that can do all of that, but just barely. Because I want to maximize the recharging you get while in this maintenance mode. I want to minimize the amount of time, energy, or focus required to keep on top of things. So that is our challenge. I came up with a particular system that I think maybe will satisfy those rules. And for reasons that will become clear shortly, I call this One Page Productivity. All right, so here are the pieces. One, you have to keep up your calendar.

• 7:30Cal Newport?

  It's the only tool really in most sort of digital office environments that everyone assumes you have. A lot of modern work features a lot of meetings and deadlines. These happen on calendars. Other people are going to send things to your calendar, so we can't get away from our calendar. So that will remain our main central digital tool, really our only digital tool during One Page Productivity will just be your calendar, which you'll put appointments on like normal and you'll look at during the day to see like if you have a meeting coming up. In addition, I want you to use a single sheet of paper. This is where the name of the system comes from. I think the best way to do this is to have a legal pad or a notebook. And the sheet of paper you're using is just a top sheet on top of that legal pad or the top sheet of that notebook.

• 8:15Cal Newport?

  This is going to be your main non calendar tool while you're using the system. So on this single sheet of paper, you can jot down things to come up that at some point you need to do, new obligations. If possible, move these things from this paper to your calendar. So maybe there's a particular time you want to do it, or there's just a particular day you want to do it. You can make it an all day event that's not tied to a particular time. And when you do that, you can cross things out. Other stuff is just on there is like a list of things that like you don't want to forget or keep in your head. And if you do something from the list, you can cross it out as well. And then you just do your best to sort of go through your day, use your calendar, know where your appointments are, grab things on that sheet, cross things off when you do

• 8:58Cal Newport?

  them, look at the sheet when you need to, uh, maybe you're thinking about, hey, what am I going to do next or this afternoon? You know, look at the sheet once or twice during the day.

• 9:07Cal Newport?

  All right. That's basically it. That's my one sheet productivity system. Now, a couple maintenance things with the system. What happens when that page gets full? A lot of things on here, you cross a lot of things off on here. The page gets full, you rip it off the notebook or the legal pad, you copy onto the fresh new page, whatever tasks that you need to still remember. This is a good opportunity, by the way, when you copy it over. If you look at some things and say, you know what? That's not really that important. I'm kind of in maintenance mode. Don't copy it over, ignore it. Or maybe you say, uh, you know what? I want to get this on my calendar. I, this needs to be done. I can do it on Wednesday. Let me go to my calendar and write that down, or better yet, put a little appointment on there about when I'm going to do it.

• 9:51Cal Newport?

  It's an opportunity when you copy tasks from one messy page to a new page. It's a, it's an opportunity to shrink what makes it onto your list there. For big projects to come onto your plate, right? Like, oh, here's a big thing. It's not urgent necessarily, but it's a big thing and it's important. Go add a note on your calendar for after you leave maintenance mode to say,

• 10:16Cal Newport?

  Get into this and plan this thing. So for big things, don't deal with big things during your maintenance mode, because as we're going to say in a second, these modes don't last that long. Just go throw some notes on your calendar for the future. When you're coming out of maintenance mode, like, okay, here's something we got to put aside sometime to figure out. Here's something else. You're like, I'll deal with that when I'm back to using my full-time management system. And that's it. That's one-page productivity. Here's a couple of extra points are going to pop up if you use this. Questions people have. How long should maintenance mode be for ideal recovery? Well, we don't have a precise answer, because this is not something that we've studied with the same sort of quantitative precision that we've studied athletic training. But I'm going to say somewhere between three to eight weeks, one to two times a year. So maybe the first three weeks

• 11:01Cal Newport?

  of July, or the week before, during, and after Christmas. And you're going to this maintenance mode. You don't declare it. You don't tell anyone. You just sort of slip into it. What about your email? If you have a normal office job, of course, you still have email as well. You can't just turn it off. You just have permission to be bad at email for that period. You know, you kind of do your best. You look at it sometimes. You fall behind things. You apologize some. You don't need to be systematic about your email during the maintenance period. What if a lot of new work is coming in, and it threatens to destabilize your maintenance mode? During this period, be way more aggressive about either saying no, or sort of deferring work till later when you leave the maintenance mode. Like, yes, this is a good project. I want to help on that. I got my plate full for the next two weeks, but let's circle back to this in a month, and I think I'll

• 11:46Cal Newport?

  get into it. So just you can deflect things, or just be saying no at a higher rate. Now, here's the thing about saying no at a higher rate. We've talked about this before on the show. If you do it year round, it'll get noticed. And they'll be like, okay, this guy never says, he says no to everything. You do it for a few weeks, but the rest of the year, you're at a higher rate of saying yes. No one notices. I talk about that in my book, Slow Productivity, that you can seasonally quiet quit, and people don't notice, because no one is keeping a line graph back in the control center of your rate of saying yes and no per week, and looking for trends that are setting off an old-fashioned police siren. And people with sunglasses jump up out of their seats and run out of the room to come

• 12:28Cal Newport?

  get you. They're not tracking it that carefully. So you can temporarily adjust these things without people noting. Now, here's a key observation about one-page productivity. It's not sustainable long-term. If you just said, "This is how I'm going to organize my knowledge work job from here on out," and there are some people who essentially do this, you're going to find yourself increasingly backlogged in tasks, you're going to find yourself not making progress on non-urgent but important matters that move the needle or important to your own advancement in your job, you're going to find yourself becoming super reactive, spending more and more time just answering emails and jumping on and off of calls, it'll be a very frenetic pseudo-productive existence, but you're going to be pretty stressed out and your performance is going

• 13:10Cal Newport?

  to suffer. So it is not a long-term solution to trying to tackle the chaos and freneticism that is modern knowledge work. You do it for a month, do it for a couple of weeks, you are going to get a recharge, but you're also going to avoid the de-training that athletes and coaches like Steve Magnus have warned us about. So it'll keep your head above water just long enough to recharge. I don't know, it's an interesting new idea, but that's what I think you should do. So what happens when you restart then? Just what? Take your remaining tasks off that sheet of paper and put them into your formal task system. I would do like a real serious clean of your email inbox when you restart your system again, and then you're going to come across a lot of presents you left for yourself on your calendar from the maintenance mode period, and you give them the actual planning, move

• 13:55Cal Newport?

  them into your system, etc. And you sort of get back up to speed again pretty quickly and go back to your system. So there you go, one-page productivity. We should think about recharging and recovery when it comes to time management, especially given how hard our jobs are and how hard these systems are, and that's one way to do it. So there you go, Jesse, one-page productivity. Are you going to do it this summer? I think, yes, during my time up north, I'll be doing something like this. So when I'm up in Vermont, which actually, as you hear this episode, I'll just have started that trip, so there'll be some remote episodes, by the way, get ready for that, from my undisclosed location up north, I will run something like this, because I too need to recharge from my, I have a pretty complicated system.

• 14:39Cal Newport?

  So you leave the time block planner at home? No time block planning, yeah. Time block planning works and is exhausting. It is something you really want to take breaks from when you, on the weekends and the evenings and occasionally during out the year. So I will not be time block planning. I basically, outside of days that you and I record, I write in the morning and then it's, I don't think about. Productivity for the most part. Basically, it's like how life should be, but sustainably can't be. All right. We've got some cool questions coming up that I'm excited to get to. But first, our favorite segment, sponsors.

• 15:16Speaker 03

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• 15:44Cal Newport?

  Jesse, you know what has ruined travel for me? Cozy Earth Sheets. It's the only sheets we use anymore at home, and they are so, so comfortable and soft and temperature regulating that I have a hard time sleeping on basically anything else. So we were recently in California. We talked about this on the show. We rented a house in La Jolla. It was very nice. We were near the sea and wind surf break. It was very relaxing. But of course, the house did not have Cozy Earth Sheets made from that ever so soft viscose bamboo that I love so much. I missed our sheets. So you know what I ended up doing? True story. I had to burn the house down. But you know what? It's not just the sheets. You can get their same temperature regulating and sustainable fabrics and other items as

• 16:28Cal Newport?

  well. Here, actual Cozy Earth items I own and use on a regular basis. The old AT, Studio Pant, which are the softest pants I own, the sweatshirt, which is cooling and I love it, and their shorts, which are also soft and very comfortable. You don't have to take my word for it. Cozy Earth offers a 100 night sleep trial. Don't love their sheets in the back and a 10 year warranty is offered on all bedding products. So get ready for cozy days. Don't miss your chance to score Cozy Earth's biggest discount of the year from July 11th to 13th. Narrow band, so pay attention. From July 11th to 13th, head to cozyearth.com and use code DEEP to get up to 45% off bestselling

• 17:12Cal Newport?

  temperature regulating sheets, apparel, and more. 45% is good. That's almost half off.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 17:17Cal Newport?

  Get the sheets. July 11th to 13th. Get the sheets. Don't forget, this deal ends on July 13th for better sleep and a cooler summer. What's stopping you? Jesse, here's a line I just thought up on my own here. I was just sort of riffing. Sleep cooler, sleep cooler, lounge lighter, stay cozy at Cozy Earth.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  That's pretty good.

• 17:35Cal Newport?

  Yeah, you know, I'm just riffing. Hey, look, in business, they say you can have better, cheaper, or faster, but you only get to pick two. What if you could have all three at the same time? That's exactly what Cohere and Thomson Reuters and Specialized Bikes have because they upgraded to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. OCI is the blazing fast platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs where you can run any workload in a highly high availability, consistently high performance environment, and spend less than you would with other clouds. How is it faster? OCI blocks storage, gives you more operations per second. How is it cheaper?

• 18:16Cal Newport?

  OCI costs up to 50% less for compute and 70% less for storage. Networking? 80% less. Better? In test after test, OCI customers report lower latency and higher bandwidth versus other clouds. This is the cloud built for AI and all your biggest workloads. So right now with the zero commitment, you can try OCI for free. Head to oracle.com/deepquestions. That's oracle.com/deepquestions. All right, Jesse, why don't we do some questions of our own?

• 18:47Speaker 01

  First question's from Dominic. How do you approach decisions when you're torn between two reasonable options, both which have pros and cons and no obvious bad choice? In particular, how do you calm your mind and decide when the future is uncertain?

• 19:02Cal Newport?

  Well, so here's the thing, and I think this is a cultural issue that I've pushed back against in my work before. You just said there, there's no bad choice. So what are we worried about? Right, for some reason, and maybe this is an American cultural thing, I don't know, or maybe it's just like our current moment in modernity, but for some reason, when we think about choices, we have this huge sort of FOMO, this sort of fear of missing out. We don't fear that any one of these choices is going to be terrible, we fear that the choice we missed on might in some way be better than the one we did, and that delta really worries us. But that's not the right way to think about decisions. You want to avoid traps. As long as you're not putting yourself into a bad situation where this

• 19:45Cal Newport?

  is much worse than that, what matters then is what you do with the decision after you made it. How do you respond to it? How do you act on it? How do you take full advantage of it? Can you get something good out of it? And if the answer is yes, then go for it. So if you have a situation here where there's two choices that seem good and none are obviously bad, flip a coin. What matters is what you do after you make that decision. So I had this memory when I was thinking about this question that, look, I wrote about this in a New York Times op ed. I went and I looked it up. So back in 2012, it was the first New York Times op ed I ever wrote. I've written a bunch since then, but it was the first one I ever wrote. And it was connected to the book that had just come out back then called So Good They Can't Ignore You, which was about why follow your passion is bad

• 20:28Cal Newport?

  advice. And I got into that, looking at my own career trajectory in that op ed, I sort of got into this idea that if you have multiple reasonable choices, what matters is what you do once you choose one, don't overthink it. So I'm going to read a little bit from my 2012 article. There's no way to write this, by the way, Jesse, without it just sounding like the ultimate humble brag. So prepare yourself. This was, this was definitely the description of this essay. But okay, here we go. I'm going to read an excerpt from it. "In the spring of 2004, during my senior year of college, I faced a hard decision about my future career. I had a job offer from Microsoft and an acceptance letter from the Computer Science doctoral program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

• 21:12Cal Newport?

  I had also just handed in the manuscript for my first nonfiction book, which opened the option of becoming a full-time writer. These are three strikingly different career paths, and I had to choose which one was right for me." All right, now in the op ed, I go and talk about kind of the meat of So Good They Can't Ignore You, so about career capital theory, don't worry about your passion, focus on getting good at things and leveraging those skills to take control of your career. Let me pick up towards the end of the article here. Returning to my story, I decided after only minimal deliberation to go to MIT. True to my alternative career philosophy, I was confident that all three of my career options could be transformed into a source of passion, and this confidence freed me from worrying about making a wrong choice.

• 21:54Cal Newport?

  So even back then, Dominic, I sort of had an answer to this question worked out, which was, given multiple reasonable choices with no obvious downsides, just choose one and turn your focus to what you do with it. That's almost always what matters for whether or not a decision ends up being good or bad. It was kind of a humble brag, but actually it was just a brag. I was like, look, I was doing impressive things back then. I guess was the setup.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say all like fans of the show know that choice, though. So like, I was aware of that.

• 22:23Cal Newport?

  Yeah, so, okay, maybe you read that op ed. I guess I've talked about it since.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think regular listeners of the show know.

• 22:29Cal Newport?

  That's when I first sort of conceptualized that part of my life in that way. All right, who do we got next?

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Next up is Caleb. As a teacher, how can I get the most out of screen addicted and sleepy teenagers? Most of my students have unrestricted access to their smartphones and stay up well through the night scrolling TikTok or playing Fortnite.

• 22:49Cal Newport?

  It's a good question. I'm assuming corporal punishment is off the table, but I think there could be a sort of shock therapy here that would have some success. Look, here's the thing I want to step back and say first. It's a terrible problem. Teachers will tell you this, just like Caleb is here. If you give a teenager or, God forbid, a pre-adolescent unrestricted access to the internet and video games, guess what? They are going to look at the internet and video games, just do that in every waking moment, right? It's like the equivalent of like, hey, everyone, welcome. I'm going to give, I know a lot of you, your parents gave you a crate full of, you know,

• 23:32Cal Newport?

  whiskey pornography and loaded guns, but like, they had to because everyone else was doing it. So you can just use these crates all day and I hope it's okay. That's basically what's happening when you give a 12 year old a phone and just shrug your folders like, yeah, but everyone else is doing it and you know, they need to call me sometimes. So I think it's a huge problem. And Caleb's description here emphasizes it really does have an impact. So the real solution here is cultural, of course, smartphones in high school, social media, if ever is 16 or later and make it seem like this is, you know, it's like driving a car or something. That's something later in your life. Don't even worry about it right now. It's not even on the table. And when they say, all my other friends are doing it, you say, I really don't care. And when they say, yes, but there's a circumstance where I have to take the bus and what if it doesn't work? You give them

• 24:17Cal Newport?

  a dumb phone. We actually just bought a new one, Jesse. What'd you buy? Well, so we, we originally had, which I love, the cheapest flip phone available on Amazon. And then we used a Mint Mobile SIM card. But it was so terrible. Like, I mean, to use it, it was, it made no sense. It was like you had to type in a special sequence of keys just to get like the letter A to come up. My wife is like, all right, enough is enough. And we got a light phone. Okay. And that's kind of cool, too. It's, it's the material on a Kindle, like e Ink. And you can call and you can text, but it's not cryptic. It's just, here's a list of numbers. You press one and it calls it. And if you want to text, there's like a little

• 24:58Cal Newport?

  keyboard on the screen and you can type it in. So it's not purposefully, almost like a, that phone, the other phone was aggressively bad. It was almost like an April Fool's joke. So we got a light phone. But anyways, it's easy to do. We, we have a SIM card from Mint Mobile that we pay like $15 a month for. It's the other way, by the way, a lot of kids that are too young to have phones end up with phones, is the phone company is like, hey, man, we'll just give you another phone on your current plan. No big deal. Just here you go. Just, it'll be like an extra, don't worry about it. And they're like, well, that's just easier. So here's the crate of pornography, whiskey and guns. Have fun. You know, I don't care that it's easier. So you buy a dumb phone or you get a light phone or, but again, the Amazon phone's fine. This should be bad because it's for emergencies. You can call if your bus gets stuck and it might take you 15 minutes to turn the crank and to put

• 25:43Cal Newport?

  the antenna up and get a, a clear view of the AM radio tower, whatever, but whatever is for emergencies. What can a teacher do? I mean, the best thing you can do is help work on the culture in the classroom, right? So you want to do two things. One, you want to validate the possibility of an alternative. You don't need to convince every kid not to use a phone, but you can do your best to validate that as a possibility for kids who don't want one.

• 26:07Cal Newport?

  You gotta get the over the collective action problem of every single person has a phone. It'll be a problem if you don't and you gotta sort of validate and celebrate. There's phone people and non-phone people and it's fine to be a non-phone person. It also seems to help with teenagers to emphasize the exploitative nature of social media. This was very successful in the 90s and the early 2000s in terms of anti-tobacco campaigns aimed at youth as they really emphasized the tobacco executives. Here are guys in suits, right? Look at these guys, older guys in suits, I guess boomers or maybe even older back then. And they're just trying to like get you addicted and take your money. And you really wanna these like weird guys with white hair? Do you really want them to win?

• 26:49Cal Newport?

  Come on, it's like corporate exploitation and young people don't like that. And that helped. Same thing, man. You really want to help Mark Zuckerberg buy the second half of Kawhi or wherever he owns all that land? Like make it seem like this is an exploitative thing. You're the product. Older people, God forbid, people in their 40s with computer science degrees from Ivy League schools that they got in the early 2000s are just out there trying to make money off of you. It's not cool. It's not authentic. It's not avant-garde. It is as conformist as it can be. You have to sort of make this seem like that 1950s book, The Organization Man, but now it's The Social Media Man. That there's nothing more conformist or unimaginative or showing of a lack of authenticity and self-regard

• 27:32Cal Newport?

  than to just sort of let Byte dance, chew up your existence into points in a multi-dimensional vector space they use to serve dancing videos to you. So that seems to work well with teenagers as well, that there is a countercultural authentic validity to not being on these devices and being on them is the equivalent of Jesse and I's childhood of proudly listening to Mm Bop by Hanson. That's what you want to do psychologically, make it easier for kids to feel like they don't want to use those phones. So thanks for that lesson, Caleb. It's good for parents to hear teachers be like, "Trust me, man. It's a problem. It is a problem they have these phones. Don't shrug your shoulders." Do you remember Mm Bop? Uh, sure do. Of course you do. Of course you do. Hanson. I wonder where they all are.

• 28:17Cal Newport?

  They probably, I don't know if this is true. I'm just saying it's probably true that one of the brothers killed the other two and ate them. Like if I had to guess, that's where that ended up. I don't know. I'm not saying that's true. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if that was true. All right. Who do we got next?

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Next up is Kirsten. Have you considered using LLMs to assist in your writing?

• 28:38Cal Newport?

  All right. So people have been asking about this. Here is how I currently use LLMs in my writing. The most frequent use would be as like sort of smarter Google search. So a place where I would have used Google, but I'm now using typically like ChatGPT, oh, something. I don't know the different numbers, but one of those. I use it as a smart Google search, right? So for example, I might say, and this was from this morning, actually, I was, I was working on a chapter for my book about, and I was writing about Thomas Paine, and I was trying to actually compare aspects of Thomas Paine's life to the life of Benjamin Franklin. Don't get too excited all at once, you know, hearing about this book, but that's what I was writing about. And I would say

• 29:20Cal Newport?

  something like, here's a, early in my research phase, and here's a claim I'm thinking about making because it kind of matches what I sort of roughly know. Does it seem correct? And it'll always say yes and be pleasant. And I'll be like, can you point me towards some reputable sources that helps back it up? And the hope is that's like an advanced Google search and you might find some good sources. In this case, it didn't work that well. So I'll, I'll do things like that. But in this case, I was like, ah, this is no good. And I just went back to my old journalistic skills. And like, what was the right way to actually do this? In the end, I found three good sources on Thomas Paine's time, life, what was going on in his life. It was Britannica, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and there's a Jill Lepore, New Yorker article

• 30:03Cal Newport?

  from 2006 that was reviewing a couple Thomas Paine biographies. And those are so well fact checked. Just like, great, that actually worked better than asking GPT. But what was useful, I also did a smart Google search about timeline. There's a little bit of a confusion where in one of the articles, they talked about after Common Sense came out in 1776, that Paine volunteered for Nathaniel Greene's army in the Revolutionary War. But also famously, he was at with Washington in New Jersey in December of 1776. That's when he wrote The American Crisis, Number One, which started with the famous line, "These are the times to try men's souls." And I actually asked GPT, explain this, this timeline is confusing to me. How is he with Nathaniel Greene? If he's with Washington? And GPT said, well, he went with Washington first. Greene was later in the war.

• 30:49Cal Newport?

  And then I could look for another source. I was like, oh yeah, that's right. That's what happened there. So that was kind of useful. So like advanced Google searching. I will do that a fair amount. Sometimes I'll use it for grammatical questions. It's good with that for the most part, like for today's podcast episode. I confirm that one page should be hyphenated and one page productivity. I'll sometimes do copy editing with it, but all of my writing for the most part now is there's copy editors involved. So I don't usually need to care that much. Once, and I'll never do it again, I made the mistake of having left a source at home. And I was at the office here knowing, and I may have explained this before, but I learned my lesson.

• 31:32Cal Newport?

  Knowing that the, the source that I was a short story that I wanted to quote was all over the internet. I was like, well, I won't go get it. I'll just, instead of Googling it, I could find it online and then go find a quote. But I was like, I'll just save a little bit of time because it's all over the internet. Hey, chat GPT, can you find that article and find a quote about this and give it to me, the short story? And I was like, great, here you go. It was just made up. I mean, it was like the quote, but it just auto completed it into its own way. A fact checker noted this and I fixed it. And then I went back to chat GPT and I was like, I asked it again. It gave me the wrong answer. And I was like, that's not right. And it was like, oh yeah, I know. Sorry. It was wrong. Here's the right one. Made up. I was like, that's still not right. And I was like, I know, I know. You got me. You know, I read it. This is the actual right one. Made up.

• 32:16Cal Newport?

  And it was like similar, but not the same. It was hallucinating. It also did the same thing with some of this Thomas Paine research as well. It came up with the Jill Lepore article, but just confidently ascribed it to someone I've never heard of. I think it made the name up. It was like, yeah, this is like so and so's article. So beware, but it's like a smart Google search. You know, the first step in research, it's like I use instead of Google sometimes. There you go. That is how I use it for writing that. And I also have it just word spit out these whole podcast episodes sight unseen. So everything you're hearing right now was written by chat GPT.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  And it's actually not you talking.

• 32:55Cal Newport?

  No, it's an AI voice. The real Cal Newport is drinking heavily right now. All right. Who do we got next?

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Next up is Mike. There was a recent athletic article about Hall of Fame baseball manager Bruce Bochy and his walking habits. He even wrote a book about it. How many thinking walks do you take each week? And what do you do if there's bad weather?

• 33:14Cal Newport?

  You're a Bocchi man, right?

• 33:16Speaker 01

  I love Bocchi.

• 33:16Cal Newport?

  Yeah, I like this guy. Said wine, he's a vineyard.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  He's really cool. He's a boy, he's a mad dog. He's won four championships. He's the man.

• 33:24Cal Newport?

  Get him on the show. Let's go.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  You would love him.

• 33:28Cal Newport?

  Oh, yeah. Can he come to the studio?

• 33:30Speaker 01

  He's probably busy. He's got games and maybe he's playing Baltimore.

• 33:33Cal Newport?

  We'll go walking together. Oh, is he still a manager?

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a manager of Texas. Won the World Series two years ago.

• 33:39Cal Newport?

  So you're saying, and I won't put words in your mouth. It is unlikely that in early July, we're going to get an active major league manager to leave Texas to come to Washington DC to do a podcast in our studio.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  That'd be great.

• 33:52Cal Newport?

  No, you're fired. A real producer would make that happen. All right, that's a good question. Thinking walks, the number, so I'm going to differentiate a thinking walk. I'm going to define here as being I have a specific thing I'm trying to make progress on, and it is the point of the walk. The frequency of those depends on just what stage I am in, in various professional projects. Like recently, for example, I just came off of a lot of polishing in my book, which meant there was a week or two where I didn't need a lot of new ideas. It was really just grappling with text and trying to make it better. And I wasn't working on any new New Yorker pieces. And I wasn't tackling any particular like professional issues. So I wasn't doing very many thinking walks. Other times I'm doing a lot.

• 34:34Cal Newport?

  Like I'm just starting now, part two of my book, and there's a lot more thinking to be done. I did a bunch of thinking walks recently to try to, I updated that outline over the last few days. Did most of that on foot. Bad weather's a problem. Actually during the heat wave, it was an issue because I, it was just too hot to do the walks. I just didn't do, I just didn't do the walks. And I did feel myself, like physically I felt it, but mentally I felt it as well. Now, I try to walk all the time, whether I'm thinking about a particular problem or not. That's why I was complaining about this being a stupid swamp town earlier because I was trying to hit my 10,000 steps, part of my back recovery too. My trainer thinks I should do it more and I don't think I've ever sweated that much. So I'm a big walker, whether it's for thinking or not.

• 35:18Cal Newport?

  And if I could do 10,000 steps in a day, I'm happy. Whether those are thinking steps or not, just depends on where I happen to be in my professional cycle. All right. What else do we got?

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Next up is Tommy. I'm a research engineer in the aerospace field. I'm looking to expand my breadth of understanding my particular sub-discipline. Do you have any recommendations for learning new things from an unstructured curriculum?

• 35:43Cal Newport?

  I mean, this was obviously relevant in my academic career, especially early on, like when I was a grad student, for example. And something, this is personal to me, but something I always felt was that things like journal clubs, where you just get together to read papers that are new, just so you know them. I never found those to be particularly efficient, because the hit rate was low. You read some papers and it would have no relevance to anything you're doing. I'm much more of a believer of having an actual project forced to learning. Like, taking on a project, and in order to succeed in that project, you're gonna have to learn some new things. You're under time pressure, and you have a directed goal. I have to learn this new technique, because I've taken on this project, and I

• 36:26Cal Newport?

  need some version of that technique to really do well on this project. It's much easier, and it gives you a super-high applicability rate, because you're learning things that are specifically useful in what you're doing right now, and so you don't feel like you're spinning your wheels. When your mind realizes you're just sort of sampling knowledge, it slows down. It's like, well, read a page today, and maybe tomorrow, or read another page. Isn't that great? But when you're trying to learn something, to finish something that's due, it's a way more effective way to learn things. That being said, there are exceptions to this. I've talked about this before, in my particular academic discipline of distributed algorithm theory, where we would just prove theorems. One of the things that seemed to

• 37:07Cal Newport?

  be true is if you, if you saw a paper that was really interesting, and took the time to really master it, almost always, you would find a follow-up paper. And this really was a secret that the best students in my group, where I was at MIT, had really mastered. Take the time to learn the hot new paper, and you're gonna get three follow-up papers out of it. Learn the core technique, and then you can improve it, and expand it, and apply it to other places. But even then, I think the way they thought about it was, very specifically, mastering this paper, I want to write a follow-up. I'm almost certain if I master this, there'll be a paper I can write. So it wasn't just randomly sampling information that might one day be useful. So I'm a big believer in the directed acquisition of knowledge, if possible.

• 37:51Cal Newport?

  All right, we've got a case study here. It's where people send in their examples of using that type of things we talk about in the show in their own life. If you have a case study, send it to [email protected]. Today's case study comes from Mike. Mike says, "My dad recently passed away. I've spent the last few months reflecting on his life and hearing from others about their memories of him. One thing that has come up over and over is how successfully he organized his life to achieve the lifestyle vision he shared with my mom." They both loved to travel. Growing up, the only thing they talked about was where they were going to travel next. They organized their professional and personal lives around being able to take as many trips as they could, mostly road trips because they loved to drive, but also flights to

• 38:35Cal Newport?

  more far-flung places. They both managed to retire in their early 50s, and for three decades after that, they traveled everywhere they could. Even through multiple cancer diagnoses and advancing Parkinson's, my parents didn't slow down their travel schedule into the last few months of his life when it became impossible. A few important takeaways that resonate with your work. My parents always had their vision of a meaningful life together. You mentioned from time to time that spouses have to do this whole lifestyle engineering thing together. They were constantly talking about the life they wanted to live, and they coordinated their efforts. Two, they were able to retire early because they were really good at their jobs. From time to time after they retired, they could occasionally be lured into a short-term

• 39:19Cal Newport?

  consulting gig if the opportunity was right, but they rejected many more offers than they accepted. Too much consulting would have interfered with traveling, and traveling together was always the priority. Number three, when they were at work, they were ruthlessly focused on work. They were laser-focused on getting things done during work hours, so they never brought things home. Also, the more efficiently he executed at work, the freer my dad felt to religiously focus on baseball. Oh, I like this guy. He loved sneaking away one or two days per month to go catch a late afternoon ballgame. I don't think that my dad was familiar with your work. He would have retired when you were in elementary school or middle school, but I know he would have agreed with a lot of it. Be deliberate about what you want your life to have, work backwards from that vision,

• 40:03Cal Newport?

  and execute, execute, execute while you're still earning a paycheck. Mike, I appreciate the note and the reflection on your dad, who sounds like an awesome guy. And like him and his mom, and your mom had a really cool life. Perfect example of the type of deep life vision we talk about on this show. Too much, too often, when people think about the deep life, what they think about is like a single radical change that fixes everything. I got this job. I moved to this place. I accomplished this goal. And then the credits roll and it was happy ever after. But this is the reality of how remarkable lives are formed. By remarkable, I mean, they literally cause people like Mike to remark on them with admiration. You know, it's important, you work backwards from that.

• 40:48Cal Newport?

  In 100 small decisions, some medium decisions, and a few big decisions, you work backwards from that vision to try to move closer to it. That's what becomes a life that has more of the things you value and less of the things you don't. In other words, a life that is deep. That's a great example of how that works. Two people working together to the form of life that's interesting to them, and doing the work necessary to make that happen. It's not as sexy as a vision as, and then my startup was sold for a billion dollars and we bought an island and a yacht. It's not as sexy as we built a raft and we floated to like an archipelago in the South Pacific and live like Swiss Family Robinson in a tree, right? It's not something that's going to catch your attention in that way. But you're probably going to be hard pressed to find someone who'd look back and said they had a more satisfying,

• 41:31Cal Newport?

  interesting, remarkable life than Mike's dad would have said. So I think it's a great example, Mike, and I appreciate you sending that in. All right. Do we have a call today, Jesse? Yeah, we do. Cool. Let's hear this.

• 41:42Speaker 04

  Hey Carol, Jesse, and Jesse's skeleton. As I read to you from my TXT file, transcribed from scribbles on my remarkable, it's needless to say you've been a huge influence in my life. My name is Alyssa. I live in Western Colorado, and I work in conservation. Lifestyle centric planning is my bread and butter. I am truly living the modest dream. However, being effective in my job while nursing a nice distraction addiction has been another story. Your work has been instrumental in helping me rewire my noggin and restructure my approach to work. Because of the progress I've made, my career capital has grown and my bosses have noticed. I got a promotion recently to manage our incoming staff member starting in a month or so.

• 42:29Speaker 04

  That said, this is a whole new frontier for implementing our strategies. While our team is subject to the woes of asynchronous communication and inefficient staff meetings, there's a lot of latitude given to figure out workflows that work for each of us. I'd like to take this opportunity to reconsider how I approach management. This person will largely be setting their own schedule and responsible for fielding calls, managing inquiries, managing and improving our database, and conducting a significant amount of field work. I'd like for them to have flexibility and autonomy while still encouraging and monitoring accountability. There's a good chance this hire will be a recent college grad with little workforce experience.

• 43:11Speaker 04

  Can you give me some advice for how to approach management with a fresh slate? I have so much gratitude for all you do. Thank you, thank you.

• 43:19Cal Newport?

  All right, that's a great question. I have a few thoughts for you. A few things that's gonna work. You have flexibility, but you also want whatever you come up with here to be sustainable. So there's a few things that came to mind.

• 43:31Cal Newport?

  One, with someone new like this, meet with them for a non-trivial amount of time, a lot, early on, right? It's like, we're gonna sit down, here's our office hour, it's gonna be together. First thing in the morning would probably be best. Every day at first, and then eventually can move this to twice a week or something like this. If they're remote, do this on like the phone or Zoom. I think the phone is nice because people can sort of walk and think while they talk. So even if you don't have an agenda, just make sure that you're making a connection to this person you're managing. You're talking to them on a regular basis and just talking things through. Two, you're gonna design with this person workflow systems.

• 44:13Cal Newport?

  I'll tell you the goal of this in a second, but before you get to any specifics about it, design them with them. Do not come in and say, here is a somewhat complicated Cal Newport-inspired Trello hooked up to a Zapier automation that triggers a Rube Goldberg machine that ultimately leads to a burrow bringing dispatches across the country that's from me to you in some sort of regular pattern or whatever. And now you're going to do it. It's going to be confusing. And when a system is handed down from someone else of any non-trivial complexity and any novelty, what happens is, is the inevitable hard edges rub deep. And there might just be a couple little things that could be easily fixed, but they're going to seem intolerable to the person because it feels like it was imposed on top of them. So you've got to

• 44:56Cal Newport?

  work with the person you're managing and say, hey, what system should we do for this? What do you think? And you can give some suggestions, you work it out, and you say, great, well, we're talking three times a week or five times a week anyways, let's just keep checking in on this. We're probably not going to get it right at first, and we'll adjust. So work on these systems together. All right. Third, what should your collaboration systems, what should the goal be? To me, the simple metric I want you both thinking about is how many unscheduled messages requiring responses are being generated right now? And how do we get that number lower? That is the metric you want to reduce because it reduces context shifts. If there's a lot of unscheduled messages that required responses, you have to monitor communication channels on a regular basis. If you have to monitor

• 45:39Cal Newport?

  computer communication channels on a regular basis, it is like productivity poison. It's constantly throwing your brain into semi-completed aborted context shifts, and it's like a sandpaper across the skin of your mind. So that's what you're trying to reduce. You're not trying to get speed maximized. You're not trying to maximize efficiency. You're not trying to maximize efficient options. You're trying to reduce unscheduled messages to require responses, even if the resulting systems are a little bit more cumbersome or take a little bit more time, or even, God forbid, the occasional thing is lost. Now, if you want a lot of inspiration for what these systems could be and why they're so important, the right book for my canon to read would be How to Become a High School Superstar. Not just making that up. See if he's listening. Now, It's a World Without

• 46:24Cal Newport?

  Email. 2021, A World Without Email makes that case very clearly, gives a lot of examples. Here's the principles that you need to think about when trying to design these systems. So check out that book. But those are three things I would suggest. I also, by the way, appreciate the Jesse Skeleton reference. Jesse, I have two things to admit that I, maybe I should be embarrassed to admit. One, I'm actively working on my Halloween design right now. Are you really? June 2025.

• 46:49Cal Newport?

  I can conservatively estimate that I think I'm going to purchase conservatively five new skeletons this year, conservatively. Because of what I have in mind. So maybe one of them can be the new Jesse Skeleton. We'll see. All of our new listeners are going to be so confused this October. All of like the Mel Robinson listeners or the people who saw that write up in the New York Times from last week are going to feel like they have been tricked into nonsense. But Jesse Skeleton probably will come back, but conservatively at least five new skeletons.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  The Cliff Notes are you really like electronics and doing it yourself?

• 47:28Cal Newport?

  Yeah.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  The lighting and stuff.

• 47:30Cal Newport?

  Yeah, I'm working. Yeah. So I'm working with landscape, low wattage landscape lighting systems right now because I want to, I have a long run of bushes that I want the entire thing to be sort of like glowing as you walk past and it's sort of spooky. But you know, if I need eight or nine lights, not gonna plug eight or nine, like 120 volt lights into like a whatever, I'm going to use a low wattage system. I'm worried because there are going to be three, three watt spots, might not be enough. So I might have to go to a 10 watt spot system, but then I'm going to have to be wiring up cables myself. So I would like to avoid that. So we'll see. I'm also going to work with motion sensor lights. I want a scene as you walk past my fence or as you walk by, the spot turns on

• 48:11Cal Newport?

  to illuminate that scene. So I can have vignettes that get illuminated as you pass by. My big thing I'm trying to figure out though, is with microcontroller control having high wattage audio that I can be synchronizing to LED programmable light control. So from the same Arduino program. So I have a lot to do. So I'm kind of starting early to see how much of it I can get done this year. There's all to say, first of all, sorry ladies, I'm taken. And second of all, I'm awesome.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  There'll be a line item on your one page productivity list in July.

• 48:41Cal Newport?

  No, it's going to be, most of my one page productivity list is going to be skeleton related. Let's be honest. A lot of skeletons on my one page productivity. All right. First episode of July means I'm going to go over the books I read in June, but first, an even more exciting thing, I'm going to tell you about a sponsor.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  Born in Texas, made in America, that's Valero. Keeping America moving, rain or shine, day or night, 365 days a year. Giving back to our communities and helping businesses thrive. We're proud to fuel the people who keep this country moving. So whether you're exploring new roads or heading down ones you know, we're here, fueling drives coast to coast. Proudly American, proudly getting you where you need to be. Right now, Valero.

• 49:30Cal Newport?

  Now, look, if you know Jesse, even just a little bit, the one thing you know about him is that he is through and through a cybersecurity nerd. Am I correct about that, Jesse? Yeah. Absolutely. Like, just this, just this morning, this is true. I was like, "Hey Jesse, how was your weekend?" And he was like, "About as solid as our ISO 27001 compliance, am I right?" So naturally, I fired him. But here's the thing, if you understood any of that nonsense, then you need to know about Vanta. Because in our current digital world, with all of the cybersecurity risks that exist, your company needs to prove that it's trustworthy and this type of certification can be a real pain to manage

• 50:13Cal Newport?

  unless you rely on Vanta. Vanta helps companies of all sizes get compliant fast and stay that way with industry-leading AI, automation, and continuous monitoring. So whether you're a startup tackling your SOC 2 or ISO 27001 or an enterprise-managing vendor risk, Vanta's trust management platform makes it quicker, easier, and more scalable. For example, Vanta can help you complete security questionnaires up to five times faster, so you can win bigger deals sooner. This type of stuff matters. According to a recent IDC study, Vanta helped customers slash over $500,000 a year in cost

• 50:54Cal Newport?

  and our three times led to them being three times more productive. Establishing trust is an optional, Vanta makes it automatic. Visit vanta.com/deepquestions to sign up for a free demo today. That's V-A-N-T-A dot com slash deepquestions.

• 51:13Cal Newport?

  Look, here's something I can tell you from experience. There's nothing small about running a small business. I guess maybe if you're literally selling dollhouse furniture. There's like something small about it, like the products. I wonder if they sell small skeletons somewhere. This is something I want you to look into. But for most people, there's nothing small about running a small business. It's hard work and nothing matters more to you. This is why the platforms you use matter. And if you're going to be selling things in your business, the only choice of platform to use is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and about 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. They were talking about household names from Mattel and Jim Sharks to small brands just

• 51:57Cal Newport?

  getting started, like the company I just asked Jesse to start that will sell dollhouse-sized skeletons. If you tackle, Shopify rather, lets you tackle all the important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. Shopify makes the marketing minefield easier with built-in tools for running social media and email campaigns, so you can find new customers and keep them. If you're looking to grow your business internationally, Shopify has global selling tools to help you in over 150 countries. Is in-person more your thing? Spotify's award-winning point of sale connects your online and offline sales all in one place. With 99.99% uptime and the best converting checkout on the planet, you'll never miss

• 52:40Cal Newport?

  a sale again, but only with Shopify. Get all the big stuff for your small business right with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com/deep. Go to Shopify.com/deep. That's Shopify.com/deep. All right, Jesse, let's go to our final segment.

• 53:05Cal Newport?

  So I aim to read about five books a month, and that's what I did in June 2025. So I want to quickly summarize the five books I read in that month. The first was The Magic of Code by Samuel Arbesman. I like Samuel's newsletter. He writes a lot about technology and computer science, and he comes at it from a perspective typically of fascination or wonder. The Magic of Code is kind of a nice, refreshing anecdote to a lot of techno-dumerism or techno-skepticism, or people being upset with Silicon Valley. He reminds us why the world of computers and computer programming is like a really cool thing. We can conjure reality out of bits. It's a book of someone who really enjoys what's magical about technology, kind of re-enchant it. I enjoyed it.

• 53:50Cal Newport?

  Then, as you know, because I did an episode about it, I read Byung Chul Han's book, In the Swarm. So go back in here, listen to that episode, obviously, for a much more fuller take on that book. That was my first Byung Chul Han. I enjoyed it. I wanted a thriller for my trip. And so I read The Fear Index by Robert Harris. Now, this book was written over a decade ago, but the premise is very relevant for today. Basically, it's a hedge fund manager builds a super AI to help him do really, I guess, smart hedges on the market by understanding. It takes in like all of this data from all these sources and can kind of figure out things that are going to happen and then use that to make good hedges on the market.

• 54:34Cal Newport?

  Spoiler alert, it sort of comes alive a little bit and people get killed in gruesome ways. It was fun. The only thing that's anachronistic, obviously, is all of the technology we think about today with AI wasn't really on the mind of people 10 years ago. So that part seems quaint. It actually feels a little bit comforting, like, oh, it's old-fashioned AI. Don't have to worry about that. Then I read Alex Hutchinson's book, The Explorers Gene. I like that Alex wrote in jury might know him for that, which was about human endurance. The explorer's gene is about the human impulse to explore. I talked about this briefly in one of my what I'm reading segments a couple of weeks ago. So I talked about it more than, but basically I enjoyed this book. The final book was

• 55:16Cal Newport?

  skywalking by Dale Pollock. So this was sort of the definitive biography of George Lucas. That's the updated edition. It was updated at some point. I mean, the original book was written. They hadn't even filmed Return of the Jedi yet. So it was back when you could still get a lot of access to George and Marsha, that George's parents were still around. It really is the definitive book that I think almost everyone else cites or builds on when they talk about George Lucas. I don't know why I hadn't read this before. But obviously I like that group of directors. And if you like George Lucas, this will give you that sort of direct look as accurate as you're going to get about what his life was. Interesting guy.

• 55:56Cal Newport?

  There's a lot of thoughts about him, but I enjoyed the book. I might do a longer segment on him later. So there we go. Actually, I finished, though I finished it not in June, but I finished the book you gave me, Jesse. Oh, you did? That's Shohei. How was it? It was, I didn't know much about the 2024 Dodger season. So I'll get into it more when I summarize the July books. But Jesse gave me a book on the Dodgers 2024 season. Yeah. First book or second book I finished, I think for July. That's good. I know a lot more. Here's what I learned that surprised me. And I don't think this will surprise our listeners. Shohei Ohtani is good at baseball. I would say this is like the the main theme I pulled out of that book is that he is good at hitting baseballs and running. And pitching. Well, he didn't pitch that.

• 56:40Cal Newport?

  Yeah, true. He's hurt. He was hurt. So there you go. All right. So that's all we got for today. I think the next couple of episodes I'll be doing from an undisclosed location up north, but I'm bringing my equipment. So it'll be fine. And then I'll be back. So we'll be back next week with another episode. I'll tell you what it's like up north. We've got some good topics coming up. And until then, as always, stay deep.

• 57:01Cal Newport?

  Hi, it's Cal here. One more thing before you go. If you like the Deep Questions Podcast, you will love my email newsletter, which you can sign up for at calnewport.com. Each week I send out a new essay about the theory or practice of living deeply. I've been writing this newsletter since 2007, and over 70,000 subscribers get it sent to their inboxes each week. So if you are serious about resisting the forces of distraction and shallowness that afflict our world, you gotta sign up for my newsletter at calnewport.com and get some deep wisdom delivered to your inbox each week.