Keep Paddling with Conan O’Brien

Television host, comedian, writer and Oscars host Conan O’Brien joins IMO! Conan shares how the incredible work a younger, more awkward version of himself did to get him to where he is today; his hilarious family; and the advice he has for young people struggling to find their way. Plus, an appearance by a very special guest. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at ⁠imopod.com⁠ http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You and I are gonna be hanging out a lot now, right?

• 0:01Craig Robinson?

  Anytime you wanna hang.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  I don't think that's true.

• 0:04Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  I think I'm gonna start cold calling him.

• 0:06Michelle Obama?

  It's true for you.

• 0:08Craig Robinson?

  So here's the thing, when I come to LA.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Ray, get coated.

• 0:12Craig Robinson?

  When I.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  Let's hang.

• 0:13Craig Robinson?

  Let's hang.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  Let's shoot some hoops.

• 0:15Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 0:16Speaker 00

  I'm gonna drain some threes from 80 yards away that don't go anywhere near the bucket. Nowhere near.

• 0:22Michelle Obama?

  I tell you, that's the bit.

• 0:24Craig Robinson?

  You could, and then, and then I'll go to the back alley comedy club with you.

• 0:30Speaker 00

  I think you would do better. You would do better at comedy than I would at basketball.

• 0:40Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Chase Home Lending.

• 0:46Craig Robinson?

  Hey, little girl.

• 0:47Michelle Obama?

  You look so dapper today.

• 0:49Craig Robinson?

  So I was telling Julia, one of our producers, that this is one of my favorite jackets.

• 0:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 0:57Craig Robinson?

  So I only wear it once a year on the show. I should wear it more often, but.

• 1:02Michelle Obama?

  Or get another one.

• 1:03Craig Robinson?

  No, but I.

• 1:04Michelle Obama?

  It only comes in gray?

• 1:05Craig Robinson?

  No, they come in different colors, but I like this color.

• 1:08Michelle Obama?

  Oh, you like the gray?

• 1:09Craig Robinson?

  I like this gray and.

• 1:11Michelle Obama?

  Well, I think it would look good in other colors, too.

• 1:13Craig Robinson?

  Off camera.

• 1:14Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 1:15Craig Robinson?

  So it gets a lot of wear.

• 1:16Michelle Obama?

  Okay, that's good.

• 1:17Craig Robinson?

  It gets a lot of wear.

• 1:18Michelle Obama?

  It's good to know. It's good to know.

• 1:19Craig Robinson?

  But it's not as hot as your leather outfit you got going on.

• 1:22Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's actually, this isn't leather. It's sort of like a faux, faux leather. So they're actually more jeansy. They just have a finish. They have a, it's a jean finish. It's a sort of a wash that's over, right? So this is really just a jean that gives the leather effect.

• 1:41Craig Robinson?

  Got it, got it.

• 1:42Michelle Obama?

  So just so you know, and they're very comfortable. So you don't get the squishiness of, of the stiffness of a leather.

• 1:49Craig Robinson?

  Of a leather, yeah.

• 1:50Michelle Obama?

  But thank you. Thank you for noticing.

• 1:51Craig Robinson?

  You're always put together.

• 1:53Michelle Obama?

  So we, um, we've hit a milestone.

• 1:56Craig Robinson?

  It is just, it's amazing because it went by like that.

• 2:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it's been a year since we launched IMO.

• 2:06Craig Robinson?

  I know.

• 2:06Michelle Obama?

  So we finished our first year, um, and we wanna thank all our listeners, all the people on YouTube who have tuned in. It's so fun hearing your, everybody's comments and feedback and. You know, my friends are always texting me with, I can't believe you said X, Y, or Z. And you run into people all the time.

• 2:27Craig Robinson?

  I do, because I'm out here in the streets. So I run into people all the time who are like, it is a fantastic show. You and your sister are so cute together. We love the guests. And I also want to thank our staff, everybody here.

• 2:45Michelle Obama?

  Absolutely, we could not do this.

• 2:48Craig Robinson?

  It is, it's been a really neat ride. And I've said this many times on this show, being 60 years old and being able to learn something completely new around a young group of people where it is, it's changed my aging. I feel like I'm aging backwards now that we're doing this.

• 3:15Michelle Obama?

  It's the beauty of continued evolution in this phase of life. I say it all the time. It's like, you know, 60 doesn't mean what it used to. When I start counting back to what 60 was, and I think about the fact that Dandy, Grandma, our grandparents were this age, when we thought they were old, that's kind of a trip. But they kind of stopped. I mean, it's sort of like they pushed the, they pushed the pause button on life once they retired. And I just think, you know, the recreation of self and trying some new things, I do think, keeps you young.

• 3:50Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. And obviously, we miss Mom, and she's not here to see this, but we're doing exactly what she did, right? She retires at the retirement age, waits about six months, and then goes back to work. It's like, what are you doing? And she went right back to work, right in the same office. And I think, I think that puts some years on, added some years to her life, so.

• 4:16Michelle Obama?

  And she would be proud of this project. She would get such a big tick out of listening to us go back and forth.

• 4:23Craig Robinson?

  She'd be sitting in the back over there, woo.

• 4:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that would have, that would have been good, having her here in the studio. But, you know, this show is a tribute to her. Because of the parenting that Mom and Dad gave us, because of the people that they were. And I think our relationship has always been strong, has remained strong. And it's, and a lot of the I M O's, the opinions we have come from the wisdom they passed down to us. You know, I mean, it's a trip. People, I, I hear their voices so clearly in my head every day. Guiding me and, you know, giving me the reassurance that I'm living life in a way that would make them proud.

• 5:09Michelle Obama?

  So it's fun to be able to share some of that advice with the listeners. And hopefully, I mean, that's what we hope is that when you list, when people listen to the show, they hear some of what we got to hear, you know, and that it's helping some people along the way. Cause that's really the goal here is, you know, to entertain, but to also, you know, share some wisdom along the way.

• 5:33Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, it really is. It's just when I'm in the airport or, you know, wherever I am, people stop me and they just say, boy, your parents must've been really great. And so that's the real.

• 5:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 5:45Craig Robinson?

  That's, that's a real tribute for me.

• 5:48Michelle Obama?

  And I also want to make sure to thank all of our sponsors this year. Too many to name right now. We don't want to take, but. And of course the show would be nothing without great guests. And we have another great one for this episode.

• 6:03Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:05Michelle Obama?

  Conan O'Brien.

• 6:06Craig Robinson?

  I know, I know. I'm at a little disadvantage because you have a terrific relationship with him and I'm just getting to know him.

• 6:12Michelle Obama?

  I feel, I feel very special. Conan is my friend.

• 6:17Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, that's so sweet.

• 6:20Michelle Obama?

  He's giggling over there. You are my friend, Conan.

• 6:23Craig Robinson?

  I'm a, I'm a, I'm a little jealous of Conan because you, the way you talk about him being such a nice guy and doing things for you. It just sounds like, sounds like me.

• 6:33Michelle Obama?

  Are you jealous?

• 6:35Craig Robinson?

  And so.

• 6:36Michelle Obama?

  That's probably why I like Conan. Because he's a tall, friendly guy, just like my big brother.

• 6:43Craig Robinson?

  She's saving it now.

• 6:44Michelle Obama?

  But I think he's probably done a little more for me over the years than you have.

• 6:47Craig Robinson?

  I know. I've been busy. I've been busy. I've been busy. Well, let me give just a couple of flowers here for Conan. As everyone knows, he's a television host, comedian, writer, producer. He hosted three late night talk shows. Late Night with Conan O'Brien, The Tonight Show, and Conan. And is currently the host of the podcast Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.

• 7:16Michelle Obama?

  He has one in me.

• 7:18Craig Robinson?

  Which, which I have recently learned was the first podcast that you ever did.

• 7:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, he was one of the ones I felt safe with in that early stage. Yeah.

• 7:30Craig Robinson?

  And he will be hosting the 98th Academy Awards. So Conan, come on down.

• 7:39Michelle Obama?

  Hey, it's my friend, Conan.

• 7:44Craig Robinson?

  When you came in like, you've got work to do.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just had a lot of sugar this morning, so.

• 7:51Michelle Obama?

  I think you probably have a lot of sugar every morning. I mean, it's not like you, you know.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  You know, it's funny, this is a true story, but I have always had a lot of manic energy. And about, almost about 10, 15 years ago. My doctor retired, so I went to see a brand new doctor for the first time. And he's running me through the checklist, you know, of this, this, this, just wants to get to know me. And he said, he finally got to this one part of the checklist. And he said, now let's talk about drug use. And I said, which is true, I've never done drugs in my life, never tried a drug. Never wanted to get into that. So I said, I've never done any drugs. And he said, let me ask you again about your drug use. And I said, I've never done any drugs. And he said, what about cocaine?

• 8:41Speaker 00

  And I said, this is true.

• 8:43Craig Robinson?

  No, you're making this up.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  No, no, this is 100% true. And I said, I've never done cocaine. And then he put his clipboard down and he said, this questionnaire doesn't work if you're not being honest with me. And I said, I'm being honest with you. And he said, I've seen your work. And he just assumed that I'm all coked up. And I'm saying, this comes naturally.

• 9:05Michelle Obama?

  I was born. I was born this way.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is the way. I mention this a bunch, but my dad was a, you know, a doctor and a scientist. Right. And maybe after 15, 20 years of being on television, he looked at me and he wasn't trying to be funny. He just said, I think I understand. You are making your living off of something that should probably be treated. And I said, I love you too, Dad.

• 9:32Michelle Obama?

  How, how old were you when he gave you that observation?

• 9:37Speaker 00

  Well, I was a, I mean, I think he had seen me do the late night show. I mean, I might have been in my late 40s when he said that.

• 9:45Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Yes, this was not something he said to a, you know. This was him looking at the arc of my life and seeing that all of this nonsense that comes out of my head and the crazy energy, in another era, they would have treated me. You know, they would have put me in a special. Or admitted you. Admitted me, yes. That's the nicest thing you've said to me in a while. Put me in a facility of some kind. But now we live in this weird, I mean, it's all when you're born. It's such luck. But in another era, my people in Ireland.

• 10:20Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  You know, standing around and we're supposed to build a stone wall. I wouldn't have been helping with the stone wall. I'd have been off to the side doing bits and going, yeah, and then this guy and then that. And they'd be saying, this idiot doesn't do anything.

• 10:32Michelle Obama?

  Are you unique in your family? Cause you have a big.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm one of, I'm one of six. I will say there, my siblings are really nice. They're really smart. They're sweet.

• 10:44Michelle Obama?

  Do they do drugs?

• 10:45Speaker 00

  No. They do not. I think we all should. But no, they don't.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  It is, I, I see a lot of similarities with my siblings. We all have sort of the same stuff and it comes in different versions. They're very creative. They're all really funny. And then I just happen to match this particular time in history when we have television and podcasts and places where people like me can actually do this and put a roof over our head doing it, which I don't think existed. You know, it took, it took just in the last, you know, 100 years for this to come along.

• 11:30Craig Robinson?

  Well, you said they're, they're all funny. Where does that come from? Were your parents funny?

• 11:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:34Craig Robinson?

  Was your, your kitchen table funny at dinnertime?

• 11:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. The, uh, everything starts at the kitchen table. For us, it was Sunday dinners.

• 11:45Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 11:45Speaker 00

  My mom always insisted that we all eat together. We have a Sunday meal after church. We come back, we sit around this round table and we would have our meal. And then, um, people would jockey for who's the funny one at the table. And who can really make mom and dad laugh. And especially my dad, when he would laugh. You repressed Irish Catholics. And you see this thing that every culture has. What's the key where they're allowed to lose their control a bit? My parents didn't drink. Obviously, there's no drugs, there's no, no one talked about sex.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  So there are all these areas that are off limits, but you're allowed to be funny and laugh. And you're allowed to eat tons of fried ham. And those are the areas where we're allowed to like let our hair down. And so my dad, when he would laugh, my mom had a great laugh. My dad would like hug himself and he would kind of clap himself and hug himself and rub his hands together. And, um, huge fan of you and, and the president. And I brought him to an event I did once, uh, uh, in Washington DC. And he got his picture taken with you guys.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  And the president was so nice. He, um, he said, yeah, yeah. Hey, Conan, dad, dad, get over here. And he made it all about my dad. Yeah. And my dad, for the next 15 years of his life, just had the picture with you guys. And your daughters were kids then, but they were in the picture too. And that was something I think, I think he lived another 10 years because of that. Talked about it nonstop. Oh, my gosh. So. Um, but so much of my career was, I think it all began with trying to make the parents laugh.

• 13:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  And that's where things start. And you can then later on, it can become, oh, I'm hosting the Oscars, or I've got a late night show, or I'm doing this big deal or that big deal. But it's really no different. You're still in some way trying to make them laugh.

• 14:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 00

  You know, and I think, um, just like the two of you, you're probably, for the rest of your life, gonna be trying to live up to what your mom or your dad would want. And that stays with you. And I'm a big believer in, we lose these people, but we don't lose them.

• 14:27Michelle Obama?

  Oh, for sure.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  They're with you.

• 14:29Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  And they're why you still, a lot of people would say, you two are good. You're good. You can let your hair down now, you can, but you are trying to still live up to that standard. And I think that's what I'm trying to do with my parents.

• 14:51Craig Robinson?

  Hey, Mish, you remember we used to go on road trips and mom used to meticulously pack the trunk of car with plenty of food, like fried chicken?

• 15:00Michelle Obama?

  And it never tasted better than in the backseat of a car.

• 15:04Craig Robinson?

  Man, with the, coming out of the tinfoil, you know? It was really good. And it would, pound cakes, cookies, the whole nine. And I remember it'd be a treat to even get flavored potato chips. Cause you know, mom would say, let's just get the plain ones. No barbecue, no salt and sour.

• 15:21Michelle Obama?

  Not a lot of extras in the Robinson household.

• 15:23Craig Robinson?

  No, no. But now, you know, the difference is night and day when I travel with my family. What do you think?

• 15:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, mom would have to pack for us staying in a place a long time. So it wasn't just snacks for the car, because you couldn't just get anything you wanted. So she had to come on vacation with everything she needed for the week, which seemed like a hassle.

• 15:47Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, it was like we had the whole trunk of the car was a grocery store. Now, are you particular about your snacks? For example, I like my cheddar cheese, but I want it cut on blade number one.

• 16:00Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 16:01Craig Robinson?

  What about you? Yeah, I like mine thin. I like my cheese cuts, sliced thin.

• 16:06Michelle Obama?

  I don't think I'm that particular. I think a snack is a snack.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  Well, now, when I travel with the family and we book a stay on Airbnb, I have the convenience of having our fridge stocked with our favorite snacks or anything we might forget or don't have.

• 16:22Michelle Obama?

  We could have used that when we were little.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  How about it? As a matter of fact, Kelly always uses Instacart when we're on vacation. But with this new Airbnb Plus Instacart partnership, I love the convenience, this feature within Airbnb services, to order our groceries on Instacart. The partnership allows you to seamlessly book with your Airbnb reservation before or during your trip. I might do some cooking during my stay this time because our groceries will already be there when I arrive, making it feel like home from day one.

• 17:04Michelle Obama?

  You're manic, you're silly, but you are wicked, wicked smart.

• 17:08Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 17:08Michelle Obama?

  I mean,

• 17:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:09Michelle Obama?

  and so was your family. I mean, I love hearing about the fact that your mom went back to law school. Can you talk about her?

• 17:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, my mother.

• 17:18Michelle Obama?

  She's a badass.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  So both my parents were the first ones in their families to go to college. They, you know, everybody's got an immigrant story. Everybody comes from someplace else.

• 17:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, let's say that again.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. No, we all, I mean, I, I, last night I was trying some Oscar jokes out in a comedy club and I took an Uber home and the driver's from Jordan. And he recognized me and we started chatting. We had the greatest chat on the long ride from East LA back to my house. And just a wonderful talk. And he put me on the phone. He said, can I call my daughter? And I said, sure, she's 25. So he's a Jordanian immigrant. His daughter is taking her MCAT. She's gone to college. And I just was telling him, this is, this was our story too. We came to this country late 19th century and, um,

• 18:18Speaker 00

  There's a lot of people not too thrilled to see the Irish in Boston. So my people moved out to the central Massachusetts and worked hard. And I think had good values. And then my mother grew up in Worcester, Massachusetts. Her father directed traffic in downtown Worcester. One of the funniest people I've ever met. I remember my grandfather really well. We called him Hooper because he knew some dance moves. And so everyone called him Hooper after like.

• 18:49Michelle Obama?

  And you got none of those genes.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  I didn't get those. Look, if I knew I was getting slammed on this show, I would not have been. Okay. You don't have to take that for that. Apparently I do. Yeah. You don't. Apparently I do. Um, so, uh, my mother worked hard and she got a full scholarship because they didn't have. Her father earned $55 a week. So she didn't have that kind of money. She got a full scholarship to go to Vassar, which was a big deal. And then she went to Vassar. And when she graduates, she gets a full scholarship to go to Yale Law School. She goes to Yale Law School. She leaves and she goes to a big law firm in Boston.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  She clerked for a state Supreme Court justice.

• 19:36Michelle Obama?

  But she also raised, this was after she had kids, right?

• 19:40Speaker 00

  Well, it was before she had, it was before she had kids. And then she just started a law firm when she started to have kids. And then she had to take time off.

• 19:50Michelle Obama?

  Cause she had a lot of kids.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  She had a lot of kids.

• 19:53Michelle Obama?

  You guys just come, kept coming and coming.

• 19:55Speaker 00

  I mean, I swear to God, I think she had a child every four months. Medical science is still trying to figure out how the Irish can do that. But, um, yeah, I think my brother Neil is 61, was born in 61, Luke in 62, me in 63, Kate in 64. I mean, um, no one ever knew my name in that house. You know, and then there's Kate, Jane, Justin, and, um.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  She went back to work and.

• 20:28Craig Robinson?

  Wow, she went back to work after. So how old were you all?

• 20:31Speaker 00

  She went back to work when I was about, I want to say nine. I was not happy about that because I love coming home and my mom was there. But she went back to work.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  But she had stories of the early days.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  Early, you know, nineteen sixties when. She is a graduate of Yale Law School and she's working at a big firm and she would go to a meeting with other lawyers. And then they would. Take a break to go to lunch. And they would all go into the dining room, but she couldn't go in because it's men only. And so I would ask her, did that make you angry? And she said, oh, no, it was just the way it was. And they set up, she said, they set up a card table for me. I sat outside and two of the lawyers were very nice and sat with me. And so.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  There was this, I, I, I think it gets overlooked sometimes, but there's a thing that happens. With people who are on the front line of change. They, sometimes you think they're going to be angry. Sometimes they're not because they think, I don't have time for this.

• 21:43Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  I've got to win. I gotta get the win. So she got, she worked hard. She became a partner and. I think she was, you know, maybe the second or third woman to ever be a partner in this big law firm.

• 21:58Michelle Obama?

  Well, you may make a good point that. And I want young people to understand this because sometimes when change has happened and. The younger generation doesn't know what it takes. They can be a bit judgmental about. What it took for those to, the kind of mentality, the kind of. Because there's some young women who say, well, why didn't you speak up and why didn't you use your voice and? Or, or look at the, an older generation and say that, you know. You, you're allowing something to happen without understanding the context of the growth.

• 22:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 22:34Michelle Obama?

  And I think that's why sometimes we get in the way of change because the younger people want it. Think it should look different. They think the attitude should be different and you just. Your mom knew what she knew, being the first woman, the only woman to ever practice law.

• 22:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:52Michelle Obama?

  And then to make partner, you know, what kind of compromises your mom had to make to get there. And she needed the job too. She had six, how many of you all?

• 23:02Speaker 00

  I don't even know. I've tried to count my siblings and there's just two more, too many. I can't do it. But the, yeah, it reminds me a little bit of that. There's that Jackie Robinson ethos where because he was the first. He felt he had to be completely above reproach.

• 23:23Michelle Obama?

  I know a little bit about that.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, that's what I'm, that's what I'm saying is the, you know, I think.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  I could tell when you and I took a trip once to visit a milita, a big giant military base in the Middle East. And.

• 23:44Michelle Obama?

  Which was an amazing trip.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  It was an amazing trip. I could tell that you and your team were being so careful that everything is done by the book. That there's no, you know, that if, if, you know, there's no perks, there's no. I was really impressed with that and I, it occurred to me then, oh, I see. Everyone. Feels we need to be so, so, so far beyond.

• 24:13Michelle Obama?

  It wasn't even a feeling, it was the truth.

• 24:15Speaker 00

  It's the truth.

• 24:16Michelle Obama?

  You know, I mean, there's absolutely no way that the behavior in this current administration would have been accepted by the first black. Family in the White House.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 24:27Michelle Obama?

  So fortunately, it wasn't difficult to do because we are those people. It wasn't difficult to follow rules. It wasn't difficult to have high standards. It wasn't very difficult because in order to get where we are as you're, you've seen and your mother. You don't get here without being damn near perfect.

• 24:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:46Michelle Obama?

  Um, we don't, we don't get to fail.

• 24:48Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:49Michelle Obama?

  Two, three, five, seven times. We don't get to file bankruptcy over and over again and still be considered a successful business person.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:58Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 24:58Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:59Michelle Obama?

  We, we don't, we don't get to not be at the top of the class. Um, you know, every, every

• 25:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:05Michelle Obama?

  I has to be dotted, every T has to be crossed. And your mom was among the first

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:11Michelle Obama?

  to begin to, uh, pioneer that.

• 25:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:15Michelle Obama?

  That firstness.

• 25:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I think because they, you know, the, the big game changer for Irish Catholics in my parents' generation was John F. Kennedy. And you've got this very glamorous first family and they're Catholic and Irish. Uh, I think that made a huge difference for people in my parents' generation and made a big difference for me because, um, it's, they made it cool.

• 25:50Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 25:50Speaker 00

  They made it cool to be Irish and then I made it uncool.

• 25:55Craig Robinson?

  Speaking of-

• 25:55Speaker 00

  What John Kennedy gave us, I took away.

• 25:59Craig Robinson?

  Were you a cool kid growing up?

• 26:00Speaker 00

  God, no.

• 26:02Craig Robinson?

  Cause did you, how can you ask that?

• 26:03Michelle Obama?

  Pictures?

• 26:06Michelle Obama?

  I wish.

• 26:06Craig Robinson?

  You know why?

• 26:07Speaker 00

  Why would you ask that with a straight face?

• 26:09Craig Robinson?

  Here's why, here's why. When I first met you.

• 26:11Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:12Craig Robinson?

  You were surprised how tall I was.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 26:14Craig Robinson?

  As I have you.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 26:16Craig Robinson?

  And the first thing I thought, I'm sure he was an athlete in high school and one of the cool kids and funny in the locker room, that kind of thing. So I want to get that. What hap- tell me about that.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  What happened? Let me explain what happened.

• 26:28Craig Robinson?

  Tell me about it.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  Let me explain to you what happened, sir. Um, I was, uh, my, my height came late. So I was one of those guys who had a growth spurt kind of later in the game.

• 26:40Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  So, um, I recently saw-

• 26:46Speaker 00

  Someone found footage of me in, when I'm 22, I'm just out of college. And I think I look like a 14-year-old.

• 26:55Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 26:56Speaker 00

  Yes, of undetermined gender. And I, I look at that person and I think, you're 22.

• 27:03Michelle Obama?

  So you weren't, you didn't get your height then?

• 27:05Speaker 00

  No, no, I had my height by then, but I was 6'4". When I moved out to LA to start my career, I was 6'4" tall. I think 155 pounds. Now, I ask any engineer who's listening, do the math on that structure. It will collapse.

• 27:22Craig Robinson?

  It's gonna break.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  It will, it's gonna go down. And if a moth lands on it, it will collapse. So there was no, you know, people sometimes say, because I make fun of myself a lot. And they say, well, that's kind of an act. And I go, no, no, no, that comes from, I think, obviously, they know now. Your core personality is formed fairly early on. And then you, you do little finishing touches to it. But by the time you're 15, 16, 17, it's there. And those were years for me where I didn't feel, I was not cool. I was not a good athlete.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  My brother Luke, who's a year older than me, is much smarter than me. My brother Neil was much stronger. And I was just thought, I don't have anything to offer. I really thought that for a long time. And it took me a while, it took me a long time to kind of put it all together. Which is why, when I say, I find myself kind of ridiculous. It comes from a place of honesty. Like, that's, that was my personality growing up. And so, I didn't, I was not, I was funny with my friends, but I was not the class clown. The class clown, I maintain, you know, usually ends up in like a motel shootout, you know?

• 28:47Speaker 00

  The class clown, the guy who gets up and changes the clock forward and is, you know, throwing stuff out the window. They're in prison soon after high school. I was not that guy. I was joking around with my friends. And then, when the teacher came in, I was really quiet. And a nerd. So, that's my story.

• 29:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And it got, but it got you to Harvard?

• 29:11Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 29:12Michelle Obama?

  Which is where a lot of funny nerds go.

• 29:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I didn't even, you know, the irony is, as a kid, I dreamed about being in show business and I loved comedy and that's how my dad and I really bonded, you know, you're always trying to like.

• 29:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  I think a lot of boys look at their dad and think, what's the, how do I key into this person? How do I, um, you know, he can be formidable, I, I'm not sure how I can really connect with this person. And then we would watch comedians together, we would watch comedic movies. And I would see him laugh and that was where my interest started and I started doing things. Um, and loving the idea of getting to do comedy. And then I thought, I'm in Boston, Massachusetts, Brookline. Nobody within a thousand miles is in show business. I've never seen anyone in show business. That's not a real thing. I gotta find another way.

• 30:08Speaker 00

  So I decided I want to go to a good college and make something of myself so I'll just become a grind. It's not a glamorous story, but I was a grind and I was grinding it out in my little room, memorizing things and I, uh.

• 30:23Michelle Obama?

  What did you think you wanted to be?

• 30:24Speaker 00

  I thought, well, I'll be.

• 30:26Michelle Obama?

  What was the pursuit?

• 30:26Speaker 00

  I will be a, a serious person, I'll be a, you know, editor of a newspaper or I'll be an academic.

• 30:33Michelle Obama?

  Were you in English, what did you major?

• 30:34Speaker 00

  I was, I was, loved English, I was a history and literature major. And I thought, that's what I'll do. So I get to, I achieved that goal, I get into Harvard, didn't think I was going to, I did. I think now it's time to become the serious man of letters and someone said, I'm gonna go to this meeting of something called the Lampoon. And I said, I've heard of that, that's pretty famous, yep. And I said, maybe I'll tag along.

• 31:00Michelle Obama?

  Was this first year?

• 31:01Speaker 00

  This was first semester freshman year. I was at Harvard for two, maybe weeks. And so I went and there's this kooky little building there and I sat on the floor and they come in and we're all sitting on the floor and they talked to us and they said, it's very competitive, but you all have to submit funny stuff and we'll see what happens. And I said, I'll give it a try.

• 31:21Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  And made it through the first cut, made it past the second cut, made it through some other things and then the next thing you know, I'm a first semester freshman and I'm on the Lampoon.

• 31:32Michelle Obama?

  And that's, so.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  I was hooked.

• 31:34Michelle Obama?

  Let me just explain to the listeners, I equate the Lampoon to like the Harvard Law Review of comedy.

• 31:44Michelle Obama?

  I mean, it is considered.

• 31:46Speaker 00

  It's very flattering.

• 31:47Michelle Obama?

  But it is.

• 31:48Speaker 00

  Well, it was a, it was a, it was a huge deal. And so many famous, funny people and great, uh, writer, John Updike had been on the Lampoon. And, um, you know, Robert Benchley and the guys that created National Lampoon and did Animal House. And I mean, it all came, all this great stuff came out of the Lampoon.

• 32:13Michelle Obama?

  And it was unusual to be selected as a freshman.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  I think, yeah, I was, I was, uh, it was, it was a little bit unusual. And then I gave my whole life to it. You know, it was one of those things where I, I felt like I had a calling.

• 32:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  Up until that point in my life, I thought anything that I achieved, and this is very Catholic, but I'm sure it's not just Catholic, it's tons of religions and cultures. I thought anything good has to come through suffering.

• 32:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  So I really suffered to do well on the test. I really suffered, I really suffered, I was, had a lot of anxiety. And then I would do well on the test because I suffered. This was the first time in my life that I would say, hey, what about this? And people would say, that's great.

• 32:59Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:01Speaker 00

  And I'd say, really?

• 33:02Michelle Obama?

  That was easy.

• 33:03Speaker 00

  And that was, that was easy. I had fun. Wait a minute, I had fun.

• 33:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 33:09Speaker 00

  Didn't take a lot of time.

• 33:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  Um, and now people are reading it and laughing and I'm getting that same dopamine hit I get when I make my dad or my mom laugh. What's this all about?

• 33:20Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  And then I was hooked. I mean, I said I don't do drugs, but I, this is to me, the most powerful drug. And it goes for all of us. When you find that thing that gives you joy and then you realize that, you know, in, you know, whatever, hundreds and hundreds of years ago, people thought the greatest thing would be able to turn, you know, lead into gold. I think the closest thing I've seen to that in life is when you can do something that gives you joy, but it gives other people joy too.

• 33:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  And then someone hands you $20 afterwards, a check. I hope it's more than $20, uh, but.

• 33:59Michelle Obama?

  Maybe that's just a little bit more than you'll make for the Oscars.

• 34:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, probably. I haven't even looked into that yet, but I'm sure I'll lose money. But that is, to me.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  That is magic in our time.

• 34:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  Is when you can do something that, and you've both experienced this where, wait a minute, I'm having fun.

• 34:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  I'm doing what I think I was put here to do, and other people are thanking me?

• 34:28Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  That's insane. Yeah. So that, to me, was when I got that first hit. And really, everything has just been an extension of that. When I called my parents senior year and I said, I have to give this comedy thing a try.

• 34:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:42Speaker 00

  And I talked to them as if I was becoming a monk. I said, look, there's probably no money in it. And they were...

• 34:47Michelle Obama?

  No one will marry me.

• 34:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, no one will marry me. And that was true for a long time. Um, and then, uh, you know, it, uh, it's really just all that happened then. And then everything else has just been moving the little chess piece a little further forward. And now I'm here talking to the two of you. So that's the miracle of it all.

• 35:15Craig Robinson?

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• 36:00Craig Robinson?

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• 36:06Craig Robinson?

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• 37:29Craig Robinson?

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• 38:13Craig Robinson?

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• 38:54Speaker 00

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• 39:02Michelle Obama?

  After Harvard, did you immediately?

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had a good friend in school. I knew that the thing I had to do was go out to LA. That I needed to go out to LA.

• 39:15Michelle Obama?

  But not New York? Why LA versus New York?

• 39:18Speaker 00

  There wasn't a lot of work in New York. There really wasn't a lot of work in New York, and a lot of the work was in LA. And so I said to a really good friend of mine in college, Greg Daniels, who went on to create, I mean, most of the great TV shows of the last 25 years, The Office, Parks and Recreation, King of the Hill. I mean, co-create that. And he's, you know, just had this huge career. But at the time, we're two pretty nerdy guys. And we were newly 22 years old. And I said, "Do you want to do this with me?" And one of the things that was really key was,

• 40:03Speaker 00

  he was, Greg's a really funny guy, but he was also...

• 40:10Speaker 00

  Like an ethical, good person.

• 40:13Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 40:13Speaker 00

  And I thought, I don't want to go out there without a friend who's with me.

• 40:20Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Who I know to be a really high quality person. And yeah, rule number one has got to be funny. And he's clearly, you know, hilariously funny. But also really good work ethic and a good person. So we went out together and, you know, we started. We got some work on a show called Not Necessarily the News, which was on HBO. And this is HBO back when if you wanted to watch the show, I think in those days, I'd have to tell my parents, you need to go check into a motel.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  Hey, check out my show. What's it on? Is it on NBC, CBS? Yeah, you need to go to a motel.

• 41:00Speaker 00

  And yeah, it was like I was working in porno or something. Let's clean that up. Anyway, it was, it was, but it was a start. We got started and then the first thing.

• 41:13Michelle Obama?

  And earning a salary, earning.

• 41:14Speaker 00

  Earning a salary.

• 41:15Craig Robinson?

  This was right away because the comedians we have on and the performers, they all go out. Yeah, we do the same thing, but they're struggling for.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:24Craig Robinson?

  A period of time.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  We were lucky. We got that gig right away. I knew I wanted to perform, so I started going to do improv at night.

• 41:32Craig Robinson?

  Wow.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  And so I would work in the day and write. And then I would go to these little places where you put a $10 bill in a jar and then you get up and you do improvisational scenes with other people. And my first time that I went to an improv class, I noticed, like, I was looking at everyone else because it's the same thing if you're an athlete, whatever you're doing, you look around and you try and I.

• 41:57Craig Robinson?

  Size up.

• 41:58Speaker 00

  Size up people. And who's the one who's like, okay, they're good.

• 42:02Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 42:02Speaker 00

  They're good. I walk into this. Place that's on Losi Enega, Coronet Theater. And it's this tiny little room. And there was a teacher there, Cynthia Segetti. And you, you, you put your money in the jar. And then you get up and she had us doing different exercises. And I'm looking around the room and I'm going, no, no, no, no. Who is that? She's good. She's really funny. And her name was Lisa Kudrow. Going on to be in Friends. And I didn't know this, but at the time, she's looking around the room doing the same thing.

• 42:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 42:36Speaker 00

  And she's like, okay, that guy, the guy that's 155 pounds.

• 42:40Michelle Obama?

  I was like, I wasn't gonna ask. How much did you weigh then?

• 42:43Speaker 00

  Now, I weigh 156 pounds. And I had a bagel. And, and so then I started working with her. And we became really good friends. And I started meeting other people. Then we lost the job that we had because they had to downscale the staff. So I think Greg taught SAT prep. And I went to work for Wilson's House of Suede and Leather.

• 43:08Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 43:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:09Michelle Obama?

  That's true. I have to check.

• 43:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, they wouldn't, no, no, I'm telling you.

• 43:15Michelle Obama?

  Of all the shops?

• 43:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:16Michelle Obama?

  You picked Wilson's House of Suede and Leather?

• 43:19Speaker 00

  You know, I just wanna get, I wanna give them a plug. I think I went to a temp agency and they assigned me there. And they didn't put me on the floor. Cause I did not look like a guy who could pull off any kind of leather. So they put me like in an office situation. And I wasn't too happy during that period of my life. But then we got another gig. And then we end up on Saturday Night Live. So we moved back to New York. And then I go to the Simpsons.

• 43:47Michelle Obama?

  So you end up writing for?

• 43:48Speaker 00

  I'm writing. And then, um, and then I'm on the Simpsons. And then, uh, I was always the writer who would get up on a table and act things out and make the other writers laugh. And, um, so when it came time to find someone to replace David Letterman on his late night show, uh, my.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  I had worked for Lorne Michaels and I give him all the credit. He told NBC, have you thought about this guy Conan? And they said, the writer?

• 44:23Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  And with the hair and the weird name? And then he said, you know, I'm just, and they said, well, Lorne, if you'll vouch for him, he can audition. And so I auditioned and I had a really good audition because I didn't think I had a chance.

• 44:37Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, that's always the way.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  And so I thought, I'm never getting this. This is the biggest star on television next, you know, I'm gonna replace him and I'm just this guy who's 29 years old. I'm still, you know, like, oh, there's a, my skin broke out again. It's still happening.

• 44:57Speaker 00

  And then I just went into that audition and had a blast.

• 45:02Michelle Obama?

  What do you think prepared you? I mean, I think late night talk show hosting is one of the hardest things. I mean, it's just hard being on the show.

• 45:10Speaker 00

  I, I think what helped me the most is at the time, people said, you need to be a stand-up comic, which I had never done. I'd done a lot of improv. They said, you have to be a stand-up comic to be a late night host. And I found that the improv training is all about looking at people and listening and looking for what's funny organically. So I found that to be hugely helpful.

• 45:38Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I've heard you talk about being able to take advantage of all the great luck that you had. And that, that warms my heart because as a coach and as a player, as an athlete, you're always taught that the most prepared person is also the luckiest.

• 46:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that old, it's that old saying, you make your luck. I think, first of all, I got. Just the time in which I was born. Right. I am a poster child for incredible luck. I've been very, very lucky and I give it up for that. I also know that I work really hard and I prepare and I try to treat people the right way. But I, I get very angry when people don't give it up for luck. And I'm also really aware that, you know, um, as a, you know, what was my path like as a white male coming up in the 1980s, 90s? A lot easier than a lot of other people.

• 46:44Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  Uh, in comedy and, and probably in any profession. So take a second, give it up for that.

• 46:50Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  Don't have an attitude about it, be grateful and then, um.

• 46:55Michelle Obama?

  And then don't shut the door on everybody else.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  Oh, no, shut the door. Shut, I disagree completely. Shut that door and nail it shut.

• 47:06Speaker 00

  Once you get in, don't let anybody else in. That's the message of this episode. Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah, I, and that's one of the things, I mean, I noticed it today.

• 47:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  I show up and you've got all these great young people.

• 47:23Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  There's great music playing, everyone's, it's, uh, yeah, everyone looks like they're, you know, 20, 21, 22. Uh, and I, I get.

• 47:33Michelle Obama?

  Except for Dan.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Except for Dan. Yeah, Dan and, uh, listen, you served your country in the Korean War and we appreciate it. 110 years old, but I, but I feel, I get so much energy from young people. And whenever, when I, when I see young people that are really funny,

• 47:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  I choose not to be threatened, I choose to be excited.

• 47:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 00

  This is, this person, this guy, this girl, this person is great.

• 48:01Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  They're terrific, they really make me laugh. I want to enjoy them, I want to try and help if I can. Uh, and just, just.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Anything, you know, people, I know your, uh, your husband feels the same way, but I'm always preaching optimism to my people and cautious optimism. I always say I'm like a 51, 52% optimist, but I do say the world has always been filled with horribleness. There's always been trouble. And this, when young people preach to me, it's all over or say it's all, it's, it's the end of the world. And I say, you have to understand, this is the way it's always been.

• 48:48Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  And this is how it feels. And it reminds me of this great scene in the movie, The African Queen, Humphrey Bogart, Katharine Hepburn, they're in this boat, they're lost in the weeds. It's a great metaphor for life. They're trying to get out, they're trying to get out. He's pulling the boat with a rope. It's covered in leeches. He gets back in the boat and finally he gives up. And she gives up. And he says, we're never getting out of these weeds with this boat. We're never getting out of here. And they give up and they say, we're just gonna die now. And the camera starts to, they kind of pass out and the camera slowly pulls up. And you see, it starts to rain. And you see that their boat is about 15 feet from a massive river. They just don't know it.

• 49:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  And then the water rises and when they wake up in the morning, they're on the river and they're safe. And I always think about that. I think there've been probably 35 times in my life.

• 49:46Michelle Obama?

  Where you've been dead on the boat?

• 49:49Speaker 00

  I thought I was on the boat and I'm dead on the boat. I am not gonna make it through, uh, I'm not gonna get to the college I wanna go to. It's over. Uh, now I'm in the college, but I'm not gonna, I, I made that, but I'm not gonna get the career. Then you get part of it, oh no, I've got this late night show, but critics hate me. Uh, and everyone says this was a mistake, this kid who gave him this job. There's no way I'm gonna make it. Everyone's saying, you'll make it a few months, but then you're out. And then I make it past that.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  But then later on, I get the Tonight Show and I think, now I'm in good shape. Nope, that blows up.

• 50:39Craig Robinson?

  And I thought, now it's really over. No, it's not. It keeps happening over and over and over again. And then it's just learning.

• 50:48Speaker 00

  To roll with it.

• 50:49Craig Robinson?

  To roll with it and say, okay, what's my next opportunity? Reset, recommit, and look for the next opportunity. And that is something I try to impart to my kids.

• 51:10Craig Robinson?

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• 51:54Craig Robinson?

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• 52:43Craig Robinson?

  My mom really liked meeting you.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  Oh, that's nice.

• 52:48Craig Robinson?

  She really liked meeting you. So we, you know, and I used to, I live a train ride away from her. So I visit her all the time and we talked about, oh yeah, it was really fun getting together and seeing. But that Conan, he was just such a nice.

• 53:03Speaker 00

  That's nice.

• 53:03Craig Robinson?

  So you should, you should know that.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  Oh, well, that's huge for me.

• 53:07Michelle Obama?

  That must have helped you land a beautiful wife.

• 53:11Speaker 00

  I don't know what I did there. I just got, yeah, my wife Liza's pretty incredible and.

• 53:16Michelle Obama?

  How'd you guys meet?

• 53:18Speaker 00

  We met, um, I was, uh, I was out doing a field piece. And those, how those work is there's a silly idea. I say, okay, I'll do it. And then I show up someplace and we, we shoot.

• 53:30Michelle Obama?

  Which bit was it? Were you in it?

• 53:33Speaker 00

  I was in it. It was a bit where it's a long story, but there was a really, um, we decided it'd be very funny if I went to a top advertising agency and pitched a terrible idea.

• 53:45Michelle Obama?

  I just love these bits.

• 53:46Speaker 00

  That I was, and, and you know, my favorite spot is me being very confident about something that's really stupid.

• 53:54Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  And so I went in, so it was my idea was, it wasn't my idea, it was someone else's idea. But my job was to go in there and go, let me tell you something. And these are the, these are the people that do like, you know, Air Jordan ads. The best of the best in the room. And I'm supposed to go in and pitch them the worst idea and have total confidence in it and almost treat them with contempt if they don't get what I'm saying. So I go into this room and I start doing my thing I do. And I do one person, one person, one person. And then I start talking to this woman. And I immediately stopped being funny. And I just start saying, oh, so, oh, okay. So you, and then did you write a, so, oh, I see.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  So you got your degree and huh? And then she went, yeah. And I was like, no, no, we'll see. Yeah, but what I did was I, I studied this, but then I did that. And we were just talking about the most mundane stuff. It wasn't comedy. I wasn't even trying to be funny. And my producers are, they got the headsets on.

• 54:56Michelle Obama?

  What is happening?

• 54:57Speaker 00

  They're like, what's he doing? What's he doing? This is death. What's he doing? And then we chatted for a long time. And then I finally, I finished up the segment. And then I, my head writer, Mike Sweeney, who's still my head writer and working with me on the Oscars and does an amazing job. But she was like, what was that all about? And then I said, I don't know, but maybe we should get everyone's contact information. And he said, why would we need their contact information? And I said, I don't know. Editing? He was like, that doesn't make any sense. Editing? What are you talking about? But the next thing you know, we just start, it's, we start talking on the phone. Yeah. So we didn't even have a set, we didn't,

• 55:42Speaker 00

  that's not even a date. We had just met. And then I just, we just talked on the phone. How old were you? I was, what would I be, 35? So what? I was no spring chicken.

• 55:51Craig Robinson?

  So you completely ruined the bit because you saw her.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  They sell in love. But you know what's great? You can look it up. You can say Conan meets his wife. Conan meets Liza. And you can see me, I look still like a, you know, now I, I'm 35, so I look like a 20-year-old girl. And, um, and I'm there going, oh, hey, how are you? And you can see us talking to each other. And it's online. I'm gonna watch it. And I never watched it. Cause I know what the real experience was. And I don't wanna see it.

• 56:23Craig Robinson?

  And.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  But we ended up, um, you know, dating. And then we got married and kids. And it's been, I think, we got married in 2002. So. Wow. I didn't go to a good school. I can't do the math. Yeah, and I'm not, I'm not even trying.

• 56:41Craig Robinson?

  That's a neat story.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  It's a great, yeah. And it was really nice. And, you know, it's crazy. Liza's mom watched it at home. She stayed up and watched it at home. Her dad was like, I'm going to bed. I don't need to see. And she was like, our daughter is gonna be on national television. The bit's airing tonight. He didn't know anything about us. You know, we hadn't even chatted yet. We had, we had met, but that was it. We hadn't even talked on the phone yet. But Pam, my wife's mom, um.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  She stayed up and she watched it. And in the morning, she said to Jake, unless that guy's an ax murderer, he's gonna be our son-in-law.

• 57:22Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 57:22Speaker 00

  And they said, she said that to more than one person.

• 57:26Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 57:26Speaker 00

  And they said, what are you talking about? Yeah. That, that TV show host, who had a brief exchange with your daughter is gonna be your son-in-law. And she went, I just think that's what's gonna happen.

• 57:36Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 57:36Speaker 00

  And happened. Oh.

• 57:39Michelle Obama?

  She knew, she knew. And I know that Liza just lost her mom.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, she just lost her mom. Sorry. But, um, well, you guys have been through it too. It's just one of those, uh, it's too profound to even contemplate. But I think thing that is some consolation is we, uh, these people are with us, they're in us.

• 58:08Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 58:08Speaker 00

  Like, we didn't lose them. They're, and I, I really believe that. And you don't even have to be spiritual to believe that. Right. They imprinted on us and they're with us. So you're always gonna have your mom. Um, I'm always gonna have my parents. Liza's always gonna have her mom. They live on through us. Uh, we just lost Catherine O'Hara, who is one of the, you know, maybe, possibly, uh, one of the, I mean, not possibly, but one of the great, great, great, great comedic actresses of all time. And at the same time, one of the best people. Just a lovely, lovely person.

• 58:53Speaker 00

  And talk about walking the walk. She really showed up for everybody. And Martin Short just gave the eulogy and he just said, she's with us. We didn't lose her. She's, she's with all of us. She imprinted and her work is with all of us. And so that's what I take away from that, the whole thing.

• 59:12Michelle Obama?

  And sometimes I, I literally. My mom comes out of my mouth. You know?

• 59:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:19Michelle Obama?

  And I'm noticing it more and more when I say something. And I was like, that was mom.

• 59:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 59:25Michelle Obama?

  It's like, I even, I hear it. I was like, oh, my God, she just.

• 59:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, so, so, um.

• 59:35Craig Robinson?

  Well, I want to talk about the Oscars because you said something right when you came out that you went to do, you went to a comedy club to try something out. Can you talk about that whole process to somebody like me who's sort of not in the, and probably our listeners who don't get a chance to talk to someone?

• 59:56Speaker 00

  If you'll explain to me how to be an athlete, then I will explain to you.

• 1:00:00Craig Robinson?

  I can do that.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  If you would work with me for a five-year period.

• 1:00:03Craig Robinson?

  Listen, I'm, I love developing talent, so.

• 1:00:06Speaker 00

  Well, I have no talent in that area, so good luck to you. Perfect.

• 1:00:10Craig Robinson?

  I have you making shots in.

• 1:00:12Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:00:13Craig Robinson?

  Two weeks.

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:00:14Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, really.

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  I like to be that guy that's way, way outside, taking up crazy three-point shots that don't go near, but with total confidence. And I love to shout stuff out when I'm doing it.

• 1:00:28Michelle Obama?

  And to freeze.

• 1:00:28Speaker 00

  And, yeah, and then freeze and do that look of like, deal with it. And it doesn't even hit the rim. It misses the backboard.

• 1:00:36Michelle Obama?

  Okay, that's the next bit.

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  That's the next bit.

• 1:00:38Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, that's it, where you have a coach who's working with you for weeks.

• 1:00:42Michelle Obama?

  And you have all the attitude. That's all you have.

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  I did this, I did a thing with Magic Johnson. We shot a thing where I think we played a game of horse together. And I'm just being such a clown.

• 1:00:55Speaker 00

  And, but he was so funny, making fun of me, the way I shot, the way I moved. He starts to imitate me at some point. It was, that was a dream come true. The Oscars, one of the, there's a lot of different parts of it. And you started thinking about different bits and what could we do for pre-tapes? What could we do, what kind of production member could we have? But you're always thinking about jokes. What could the jokes be? And you really wanna test them. And one of the ways to do that is to go out to clubs. And what I like to do is go way, way, way, start way far out. So we went to Covina, which is way out there. I mean, I think I was driving for almost an hour.

• 1:01:38Speaker 00

  Got to Covina and you go into a club and you're surprised. And then you read a bunch of Oscar jokes. And it's fun because you make them part of it. You say, look, if you guys laugh at a joke that isn't good, that might convince me to do it. And then I'm gonna die on the Oscars, so don't do that to me. And they're, so they're laughing at the part where you're not even reading the joke.

• 1:02:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:03Speaker 00

  I love that. And I've gone to a couple of clubs like that. I did one last night. And you just go way out there. All of them are same. They're the same in that you're in some back room or an alley, standing around with other comics. And you, this lesson I've learned again and again and again, which I actually find kind of filled with hope, which is, you think you've gotten to this other level. It's like, I'm hosting the Oscars and I'm gonna walk out at the top and have a tuxedo. But I'm in Covina in an alley. And I'm hanging out and someone's got a ventriloquist dummy. And I'm waiting for my, you know, I'm waiting for my turn to go out there.

• 1:02:45Michelle Obama?

  Did you?

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  You did that on purpose. No, I didn't.

• 1:02:48Michelle Obama?

  The reason why everybody-

• 1:02:50Speaker 00

  I did not.

• 1:02:50Craig Robinson?

  Who told him?

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  What? I don't know what I'm talking about.

• 1:02:53Michelle Obama?

  Craig loves ventriloquism.

• 1:02:56Speaker 00

  I honestly, I swear to you. I swear to you.

• 1:02:59Craig Robinson?

  I don't trust you. You're too funny.

• 1:03:02Michelle Obama?

  He, we've been talking about this episode after episode.

• 1:03:06Craig Robinson?

  You don't.

• 1:03:06Speaker 00

  I do not.

• 1:03:07Michelle Obama?

  He is, I think, the last person who believes that ventriloquism is a lost art.

• 1:03:13Craig Robinson?

  Is an underutilized performance.

• 1:03:17Speaker 00

  Vehicle. When you see a good ventriloquist, it is really funny. How about it? And I'm gonna side with you on this. When you see a really good one, it's really funny. It's so funny. See?

• 1:03:28Michelle Obama?

  Okay, alright.

• 1:03:29Speaker 00

  Did you put him up to this?

• 1:03:30Michelle Obama?

  No, I did not.

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  No, no. Listen, I might say something. I don't know anything about this, your link to ventriloquism. I swear to you. I swear to you. I would tell you right now, but no one said, "Hey, you wanna get cranked? Mention ventriloquism." Um, I did not do that. I just mentioned, like, that's how kooky it is.

• 1:03:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:46Speaker 00

  When you're in the alley is, uh, and I love that. I love that you, it's this constant dance between, put on the tuxedo and you're in an alley. Yeah. Uh, in a t-shirt and jeans.

• 1:04:01Michelle Obama?

  Does, do your nerves get, I mean, I mean, I, I watch you walk on stage to this audience of every famous person on earth. And you know, they're not a regular audience.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  They're not a regular audience.

• 1:04:13Michelle Obama?

  They're nervous, they're looking at themselves, they're deeply self-involved and self-conscious. And you're out there to be funny. I mean, does that change the, the nature of it?

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  It's a very different.

• 1:04:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  It's a very different audience. Like, when we would do the White House Correspondents' Dinner, and I did that once, uh, under, uh, your administration. Uh, and I remember, I got to sit with you and it was really fun because, um, you know, you were so nice to me that night. We're sitting up on the dais. But that is not a normal crowd.

• 1:04:49Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Speaker 00

  That is a crowd of people that think they're the coolest people in the world. And they're there, they're thinking a lot about their own world. And you need to be funny, but you can't act like you know too much because then they'll resent you for that or think you don't belong. Mm-hmm. And so, everything is this incredible long period of preparation to gauge what's gonna work in that room that doesn't go too far this way, doesn't go too far that way. And, uh...

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  And I've talked to your husband about this. They make you follow the leader of the free world. He goes first.

• 1:05:26Michelle Obama?

  Right, really?

• 1:05:26Speaker 00

  And kills it. And then before...

• 1:05:29Michelle Obama?

  Well, usually, they don't.

• 1:05:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, well, I know.

• 1:05:32Michelle Obama?

  The format usually works in the best interest of the host.

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  The president we're discussing, unusually good at that. And then he would finish, like, drop the mic, crowd going crazy, and a voice would go, "President John McConnell, O'Brien." And you're like, "Well, that's it?" And you're walking up, and you see people like, "What? Who would go now?" And so you gotta wade through that a little bit. But it's all calculating for what's the assignment. And the assignment is, with the Oscars, like the White House Correspondence Dinner, is think about that room and calculate. It's not, you're not at a club where they are there to get a drink, and then suddenly you pop up and they're really thrilled.

• 1:06:22Speaker 00

  They're not, you know, if you go to a high school and they're just losing their mind that you show up, that's a very different crowd than now I'm gonna speak to a bunch of, you know, A-list people who don't really like to give it up for anybody. But it's all just a calculation. You gotta calculate and then have fun.

• 1:06:48Michelle Obama?

  Do you like that risk? Does it feel like, you know, I know how to be, I know, like, this is you on some high wire? Do you feel, is it a test for you?

• 1:06:57Speaker 00

  I like, I think I must like that to some degree because I keep signing up for things like that. And so that's a problem. And when it's 3 o'clock in the morning and I can't sleep, Liza's like, "Maybe we don't do another one of these." But, but I do like...

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  I think the trick is to, I figured out a long time ago, if I'm having a good time.

• 1:07:23Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:25Speaker 00

  It, things tend to go well.

• 1:07:26Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  It's almost unheard of for me to have a really good time up in front of people. And people afterwards say, well, that was awful.

• 1:07:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  If I'm enjoying myself, so I just keep trying to think of things, I want to tell a joke I really like.

• 1:07:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:41Speaker 00

  Now, they may not like it. Mm-hmm. But if I really like it.

• 1:07:44Michelle Obama?

  You'll crack yourself up.

• 1:07:46Speaker 00

  I will crack myself up. And then I'm like, okay, well, you know, this job didn't pay much anyway, so I had a good time. And that's kind of my mission is, I want to think of things and do things that I enjoy. And I think instinctively, we like to watch people having fun.

• 1:08:02Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  We like to watch athletes who are having fun.

• 1:08:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 00

  You know, they're really like, when they're playing well, they're enjoying themselves. It's fun to play at that level. It's fun to give a great speech. It's fun to be up in front of people doing what you feel you were put here to do. So, that, that part I really like, and it's just doubling down on that. How do I figure out, and if something starts to develop and I think, I don't really like doing this. Cut it. Don't do it.

• 1:08:36Michelle Obama?

  Do you feel like comedy is more fraught these days? I mean, it just, you know.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it's.

• 1:08:43Michelle Obama?

  Talk show host or not, you know.

• 1:08:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I, I, obviously, I, I'm friends with the other, the hosts. I'm not a, one of, a late night host anymore, but I'm friends with them and I think they're all very talented. They're really good people. And they're in a tough situation because of, you know, your job is to go out and talk about the news every day. And I was never, you know, strictly a comedian that live off the news or did, you know, I, I usually tried to find things that were silly and funny outside of the news. But we also had to do the news and. Things are so divisive right now.

• 1:09:28Speaker 00

  And I think it's gotta be just a really tough task.

• 1:09:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:35Speaker 00

  And I do have empathy for people who are trying to figure out what's funny in this. Because I know, just as a citizen, I get up in the morning and I look at what happened in the news. My first instinct, I like to be funny, but my first instinct when I read the news is nothing here gives me joy or is making me laugh that hard. And that makes me think of ideas outside of the news about everyday life or something. There's a weird ad on TV that cracks me up. Those are the things that I probably look for.

• 1:10:15Speaker 00

  But if you're doing one of those shows, how do you not talk about it?

• 1:10:21Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  And then how do you not wear your heart on your sleeve and maybe get mad? Or, you know, so it's difficult. It's difficult.

• 1:10:34Craig Robinson?

  On our show, we have an audience question, a listener question. But before we get to the listener question, I need some development. You've been in the podcast business for a long time.

• 1:10:47Speaker 00

  It feels, well, actually, no, not that long, but yeah, I guess.

• 1:10:50Craig Robinson?

  But longer than IMO.

• 1:10:52Speaker 00

  Yes, okay, yes.

• 1:10:54Craig Robinson?

  Any tips, any best practices? What is it about the podcast that you like doing that might be helpful to a, I won't say young, but fledgling podcaster like myself?

• 1:11:09Speaker 00

  You are younger than me.

• 1:11:10Craig Robinson?

  No, I'm older than you.

• 1:11:11Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, he's my big brother.

• 1:11:13Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:13Speaker 00

  You're kidding.

• 1:11:14Craig Robinson?

  I'm older than you.

• 1:11:15Michelle Obama?

  He's an old man.

• 1:11:16Craig Robinson?

  I was probably on campus when you were on camp. I was probably over in the gym playing your basketball team when you were a freshman.

• 1:11:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:24Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. So I'm older than you are.

• 1:11:27Speaker 00

  So you were in the gym playing real sports?

• 1:11:30Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, you were at the Lampoon.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  I was in a weird castle.

• 1:11:37Speaker 00

  I'm on Aubrey Street thinking of something weird and giggling. Yeah, see, and I probably would have preferred to be over there. And who's cooler? Yeah, it's me. Yeah. You know, who's the cool one, really? Yeah, wow, that's incredible. I thought you were maybe 32 years old. Oh, yeah, thanks. And a ventriloquist. But. Budding, budding ventriloquist. Ventriloquist. I'm with you on that. I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna find you the right dummy. I'm gonna get you a good one. I'm gonna get you a teacher, too, because I want to see you do it. Please. I think, oh, I mean, I don't know the answer. I know it works for me. Okay. Which is, and you're doing it, great snacks out there. It starts with the snacks, it ends with the snacks. Okay. Don't let this one, too many kale chips, you know?

• 1:12:21Speaker 00

  You gotta have some good, and some of them have to be bad for you. You hear that? No kale chips. No kale chips, no high fructose, this or that. Yeah. No, you want to have, you've got that. You've got good snacks. It's a really good vibe here. Like, it's fun to come here. And I think if that's a big thing, you want people to come into the store and want to walk around and check stuff out. And so that is all working, and you two know each other so well, you can finish each other's sentences, and there's a good bond here, so that's all good. And to me, it's like, I don't, I mean, I think I'd be a fool to give you guys any advice on what to do that you're not doing. I mean, it'd be nice if I got an expensive gift on the way out. I'm just putting it out there.

• 1:13:06Speaker 00

  We're working on that. You know? Okay. I mean, like a watch. Okay. A good watch. All right. Like a Patek Philippe watch. Here, you can have this one. That watch weighs more than I do. I could drive that watch home. It looks like a car. No, I think, I mean, it's, it's all about enjoying yourself. Again, I'll go back to that same thing I said about a word show or doing a nightly show or anything else, which is talk about the things you want to talk about, that you're passionate about. I think passion and authenticity works better than anything in this format. And you're doing it, so I don't, you know, other than stop lying about your age.

• 1:13:51Speaker 00

  Come clean. You are a 32-year-old man.

• 1:13:53Craig Robinson?

  I am.

• 1:13:55Speaker 00

  You were born in 2005?

• 1:13:57Craig Robinson?

  I am 63, will soon to be 64 in April.

• 1:14:00Michelle Obama?

  April.

• 1:14:01Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:14:01Michelle Obama?

  He's my big brother.

• 1:14:03Craig Robinson?

  April 21st.

• 1:14:04Speaker 00

  I'm the 18th. I'll be 63 on the 18th.

• 1:14:07Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:08Speaker 00

  I like an April birthday.

• 1:14:09Craig Robinson?

  So do I.

• 1:14:10Speaker 00

  I like it.

• 1:14:10Michelle Obama?

  Why? What's so good about it?

• 1:14:12Craig Robinson?

  What's so good about it?

• 1:14:13Michelle Obama?

  What's so good about it?

• 1:14:14Craig Robinson?

  You get far enough away from the holidays where when you get gifts, it feels good again.

• 1:14:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Also, I grew up on the East Coast.

• 1:14:21Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 1:14:21Speaker 00

  You guys, I know Midwest, it's starting to get nice.

• 1:14:24Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 1:14:24Speaker 00

  And so I always associated my birthday with...

• 1:14:27Michelle Obama?

  The sun is up.

• 1:14:28Speaker 00

  Wait a minute. The sun is out for the first time in nine months. And there's a little bit of joy and some birds are chirping. I like that.

• 1:14:38Craig Robinson?

  Absolutely.

• 1:14:38Michelle Obama?

  The smell of grass.

• 1:14:39Speaker 00

  Are you into horoscope stuff? Do you do? I don't really...

• 1:14:42Craig Robinson?

  No, I'm not.

• 1:14:42Speaker 00

  I'm not at all.

• 1:14:43Craig Robinson?

  I'm not.

• 1:14:43Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:14:44Craig Robinson?

  I thought you were gonna say you are.

• 1:14:45Michelle Obama?

  Well, all these young people are, so I probably know more than it. Because it's all about, oh, you're a Leo, rising in a sun moon to sleep. And I'm like, what?

• 1:14:54Speaker 00

  No, and then I ask them, they'll say things like, oh, that's so Aries. And I'll say, why? And they'll say, oh, because, you know, Aries is, you know, loves to challenge and loves to push themselves and is a ray of light. And then I'll read, well, what's a Taurus? Loves to really challenge themselves, full of goodness and light. And you're like, it's all...

• 1:15:15Michelle Obama?

  And then if you say something else, then it's that, oh, you must be a Cancer moon.

• 1:15:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:19Michelle Obama?

  And it's like, okay, so now there's something for every aspect, you know? Because there's moons and there's your sleeping sun. What are these?

• 1:15:27Craig Robinson?

  It's only, there's only 12. It can't be that different.

• 1:15:30Michelle Obama?

  Everybody can, right?

• 1:15:31Craig Robinson?

  Can't be that different.

• 1:15:32Speaker 00

  Well, we just alienated your entire staff.

• 1:15:33Craig Robinson?

  I know that.

• 1:15:34Speaker 00

  They're listening right now, like, these people, they don't get it.

• 1:15:37Michelle Obama?

  And they also like manifesting everything.

• 1:15:40Speaker 00

  Well, that's Oprah's fault. We blame Oprah for that. You can manifest it. I can manifest all day and all night that I want to be an amazing basketball player. It's not happening. Or I'd like to be a male model. I'm gonna manifest it. Not happening. There's so many things that I cannot manifest. Right.

• 1:16:00Speaker 03

  Well, let's get to our listener question.

• 1:16:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:16:03Speaker 03

  Get some advice. My name is Jake and I'm from Indiana. And my question is, how do I overcome feeling lost in my career? I achieved my childhood dream job at 21. I had worked for it since fifth grade, but then I decided I just didn't like it enough to do it forever. At 25, I switched to a new job with good opportunity, but it's far from home where I'm originally from, and I don't want to be here forever. I'm now 26 and I don't know what I want to do. I don't love the idea of going back to school because I'm not sure there's anything I'd love to study full time. I have ideas, but nothing concrete. And with this constantly evolving world, I feel stuck, lonely, and depressed as a result. Help. 26, too.

• 1:16:48Speaker 03

  This is what we were talking about, right?

• 1:16:49Speaker 00

  I know. Yeah, I mean, this has been a big theme of this podcast, not through design, but it just happened. But, um, you know, in the brief description, you listen to what Jake's achieved already, and it's really good. You know? And this is just one of the things that takes a long time to figure out. I, I do think that, um, we're in a world now where you take constant snapshots of your life. And if the latest snapshot doesn't please you, you think things are really dire. And, um, this is called being 26.

• 1:17:28Speaker 00

  I mean, it sounds to me like Jake is kind of ahead of the game, uh, has already had a lot of success, has options, and now is wondering what to do.

• 1:17:41Speaker 00

  This is a feeling you're gonna have now. And then it's gonna go away and you're gonna have, uh, you're gonna have a period where you think you're back on track, and then it's gonna come up again. And this feeling will revisit you, and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. It means you're a person. And we all have that. And it's anyone who looks at, at you and thinks...

• 1:18:07Speaker 00

  Well, she doesn't have any problems. She's a former first lady and she's just, she's got the world by the tail and it's just, you know, doesn't understand that you can have a really bad Thursday, you can have a really bad October. You can have a bad year. You can have a bad two years. You can, I mean, that, that is called being here. That's what, and no one escapes it. No one gets out of it. And I think, um, young people like Jake put so much pressure on themselves and they forget that sometimes treading water is just fine.

• 1:18:47Speaker 00

  That's, you know, not every day has to be a sprint to the finish line. You can have periods of your life. I've had many of them where I think, I'm not really getting anywhere. I'm treading water, but I'm not drowning.

• 1:19:04Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:19:05Speaker 00

  So I, I, I think, um, try not to be too self-critical. Try not to be too tough on yourself and appreciate what you have and what you've already achieved and know that also 26, you're a baby. Yeah. That's my answer.

• 1:19:22Michelle Obama?

  That's a, it's a, it's a great answer. It's, it's spot on. And Jake, it's like, um, 26 is, you know, it's, if you're lucky, and luck has a lot to do with it. With this generation, they're gonna live until their 90s, you know? Assuming that we continue to have good healthcare, which this generation should care about because that's gonna play a role, but science is definitely on their side. We've learned a lot, you know? People are healthier, they're living longer. So let's just say if Jake is lucky, he's gonna be here till he's 90.

• 1:20:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:01Michelle Obama?

  You know? That's like, I can do that. That's. Seventy more years, seventy more years to live a life and to figure it out. So the twenties and the thirties, and I would even say now the four eighties, are the period where you aren't gonna know. I mean, there are a handful of people, and they're rare, that pick a thing at eighteen or twenty-two, and they get it right. It's their passion, they're good at it, and then there's a job.

• 1:20:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:28Michelle Obama?

  Right?

• 1:20:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:29Michelle Obama?

  That's not the norm, you know? That's the exception. And again, with social media, he's probably seeing some of those people post, "Look at me, living my best life at twenty-six. I'm already a millionaire, and I've done this, and I have a boat, and I do," you know? That's not the norm, you know? It wasn't the case for me.

• 1:20:48Speaker 00

  Also, people don't always tell the truth.

• 1:20:51Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:20:51Speaker 00

  On social media.

• 1:20:52Michelle Obama?

  Absolutely right.

• 1:20:53Speaker 00

  So that may be someone else's boat.

• 1:20:55Michelle Obama?

  Exactly. Nine times out of ten.

• 1:20:58Speaker 00

  I've done that. I've often taken photos of boats and said, "Check out my boat."

• 1:21:01Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:21:01Speaker 00

  I don't have a boat.

• 1:21:02Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:21:03Craig Robinson?

  You've often done that?

• 1:21:04Speaker 00

  No, I'm kidding. I'm gonna start doing it, because I just, I'm getting in the idea that that's, that'd be cool.

• 1:21:11Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:21:11Speaker 00

  But no, I think that's, that's, people...

• 1:21:16Michelle Obama?

  There are gonna be many lives, many exceptions, if, you know? And that's what you want out of life.

• 1:21:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:21Michelle Obama?

  You know, you wanna keep evolving, you wanna keep trying on new things. And, you know, I certainly did that. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, went to law school, wrong about that, didn't like that. That felt a little shocking, all that debt. And I was like, "Damn, I should've checked to see if I liked law before I did it." But I didn't.

• 1:21:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Michelle Obama?

  And so I left the law. And thank God I did, because it wasn't the profession for me. Thank God I had parents who didn't care about that, and they encouraged me. And my brother, we went down a whole, should've been a certain career path.

• 1:21:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:56Michelle Obama?

  And entered into it and said, "Whoa, this isn't me." And so I had to redefine it. I had to, I had to start looking around, asking questions, exploring, trying on new things. And that's when I learned that I love service, and I actually like working with people. I don't like reading documents and just writing memos. I like sort of living in life. I learned that about myself. And if I'd stayed in the law firm and become partner, I wouldn't have, I would probably figure that out, because ultimately, you do have to wake up. Even if you pick a thing, I've met people who have been in a profession their entire lives, just, just putting up with it because it paid the bills.

• 1:22:36Michelle Obama?

  And then at 60 or 70, they find the thing that they care about, you know? The work is going, is waiting for you. That work of figuring yourself out is waiting for you. And so-

• 1:22:49Speaker 00

  He's probably in it right now.

• 1:22:51Michelle Obama?

  He's in it right now.

• 1:22:51Speaker 00

  Like, a guy like Jake, it's, you don't, you're not even aware. Some people think, sometimes I'll talk to one of my kids and they'll say, oh, I, you know, I wasted time today, I've got this thing to, but I, I didn't really, I didn't make a lot of progress on it today. And I'll say, I have found that often you're working and you're figuring things out when you don't even think you are.

• 1:23:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:23:13Speaker 00

  Because we have, you know, front part of our brain, we have all these, and then you have a part of your brain that's chewing on things while you don't even know it. So Jake might be figuring a lot of stuff out right now that's crucial.

• 1:23:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:28Speaker 00

  Where he realizes, I want to be an astronomer.

• 1:23:31Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:31Speaker 00

  You know, and then, but that's, that's still a year from now when he has that revelation. But it is working on him on some level.

• 1:23:39Craig Robinson?

  It's funny you should, you, you say that, Conan, because I was just watching something and I can't remember if it was PBS or it could have been on social media, but Neil deGrasse Tyson, the renowned scientist who is very entertaining, but I, I, I really enjoy him. When he talks, I listen. And he said something that I had never heard before, that procrastinators are usually highly intelligent.

• 1:24:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Craig Robinson?

  For the reason you said, that they procrastinate because they want to give their brain enough time to come up with the solution.

• 1:24:20Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:22Craig Robinson?

  And like you said, this could be happening with Jake right now.

• 1:24:25Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:25Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:24:27Speaker 00

  I think that's true.

• 1:24:28Craig Robinson?

  So hang in there, Jake, and, you know, my sister and I talk about this all the time. Try stuff.

• 1:24:35Craig Robinson?

  Try stuff to find.

• 1:24:36Michelle Obama?

  Try on stuff, yeah.

• 1:24:36Craig Robinson?

  Find your passion and sometimes you don't find your passion, but you'll find something that's pretty interesting.

• 1:24:42Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:24:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, and there's no, um, I think a lot of young people don't realize that they have more room for error than they think they do.

• 1:24:50Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's.

• 1:24:50Speaker 00

  You can try something and wipe out, or it just doesn't go anywhere. No one's paying that much attention and no one later on uh, is gonna present you with, hey, wait a minute. I know you're a big success now, but remember when you tried to open that dry cleaning business and it didn't work?

• 1:25:09Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 1:25:09Speaker 00

  Thirty-five years ago, or whatever. But um, no, that happened. I got out of it, I paid my debts, and then I tried this.

• 1:25:16Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:17Speaker 00

  Once you figure out what it is, you're not penalized. No one, there's not a referee there watching, blowing the whistle, saying, nope, you're out, you just made a mistake.

• 1:25:26Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, life's over.

• 1:25:27Speaker 00

  It feels that way, but it's not happening.

• 1:25:29Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:30Craig Robinson?

  That's a great point.

• 1:25:31Michelle Obama?

  Well, speaking of evolving, and hopefully that helps Jake, um, you're still evolving. I mean, did you just have your acting debut?

• 1:25:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did.

• 1:25:40Michelle Obama?

  I mean, I, I watched, um, If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You.

• 1:25:44Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:44Michelle Obama?

  It was.

• 1:25:45Speaker 00

  It's intense.

• 1:25:46Michelle Obama?

  It's intense, but so good.

• 1:25:49Speaker 00

  She's, I mean, I, Rose Byrne is.

• 1:25:51Michelle Obama?

  Oh, man.

• 1:25:51Speaker 00

  Phenomenal.

• 1:25:52Michelle Obama?

  She is amazing.

• 1:25:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's absolutely spectacular and uh, so, yeah, I.

• 1:25:59Michelle Obama?

  How was that for you? I mean, was that your first time?

• 1:26:01Speaker 00

  More or less.

• 1:26:02Michelle Obama?

  And you were serious?

• 1:26:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was a serious role.

• 1:26:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:05Speaker 00

  I, they sent me the script and I said, well, this is a great script, but this isn't really what I do. This guy's the complete opposite of me. The director met with me, Mary Bronstein, who wrote it, directed it, and she said, um, I really want you to do this. And I said, I don't think you should want me. You should get someone who really knows what to do with this. And she said, I think it, I really do think it's you.

• 1:26:34Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 1:26:35Speaker 00

  And I said, okay, I'm gonna try, but I give you permission to fire me at any point and we'll still be friends.

• 1:26:41Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:42Speaker 00

  And I said, and if I'm not, because I love Rose Byrne, I don't wanna let her down. I don't wanna get in the way of this amazing movie. Fire me, fire me, fire me.

• 1:26:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:51Speaker 00

  And even if you shoot with me and you wanna cut me out, cut me out.

• 1:26:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:56Speaker 00

  No hard feelings. So, but again, I did, I worked on it. I thought about it a lot. I worked on it. I.

• 1:27:03Michelle Obama?

  You were good. You were incredibly believable. There was no sign of regular Conan.

• 1:27:09Speaker 00

  Well, here's the disturbing part. The guy I play has no empathy.

• 1:27:13Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:27:13Speaker 00

  Everyone hates him and wants to kick him. Uh, and people were just so mad at my character.

• 1:27:19Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:27:20Speaker 00

  And, um, it's worrying me that that's inside. I may have let out the real me.

• 1:27:26Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:26Speaker 00

  And this, you know.

• 1:27:27Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, that's in there.

• 1:27:29Speaker 00

  And so, uh, but it was, um, it was a real challenge, but I, and it was scary. But again, going back to, you know, the, the, the question we just got. I've gotten to a point in my life where I think, give it a shot.

• 1:27:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:43Speaker 00

  There are things I know I shouldn't be doing. If someone said, hey, fly this F-16 fighter. Gee, I've never done it before, but, you know. No one's gonna penalize me if it doesn't work out. Yeah, you'll be killed. You might kill other people.

• 1:27:56Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56Speaker 00

  I know there are a lot of things I shouldn't just give a try to. But this one, uh, I really went off the belief of the director. And it was a lot of fun. And I'm really proud of Rose, cause she's nominated for best.

• 1:28:10Michelle Obama?

  I know.

• 1:28:11Speaker 00

  Actress.

• 1:28:11Michelle Obama?

  She's phenomenal. You've got it. Craig is not, uh, pop culture ready. I told him he has to be better.

• 1:28:18Speaker 00

  That's not true.

• 1:28:18Michelle Obama?

  In this job where pop culture is, you know, he's gotta watch movies.

• 1:28:22Speaker 00

  What do you, I mean, do you, what do you, what do you watch?

• 1:28:26Craig Robinson?

  Turner Classic Movies.

• 1:28:27Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. All right.

• 1:28:29Craig Robinson?

  I watch Turner Classic Movies.

• 1:28:31Speaker 00

  Snore.

• 1:28:35Craig Robinson?

  I like watching movies. It's hard to watch these new series that have part after part after part.

• 1:28:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can't keep up. And then you know what happens?

• 1:28:43Craig Robinson?

  You know, I've got a, a job. I work for the Coaches Association. I'm coaching my kids' teams and I'm doing this podcast. I don't have time for just, you know, Real Wife.

• 1:28:53Michelle Obama?

  No crying on the yacht.

• 1:28:54Craig Robinson?

  Real Housewives on, uh, Real Housewives of Brooklyn. I don't have time.

• 1:28:59Speaker 00

  Is there a Brooklyn Housewives?

• 1:29:01Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, there is.

• 1:29:02Michelle Obama?

  There is not. It's New York. It's not Brooklyn.

• 1:29:04Craig Robinson?

  Oh, well, then I bet they all live in Brooklyn. I bet they all live in Brooklyn.

• 1:29:08Michelle Obama?

  No, they don't.

• 1:29:08Speaker 00

  Does there Real Housewives Staten Island? You should check that out.

• 1:29:12Craig Robinson?

  Is there really?

• 1:29:12Speaker 00

  No, I just made it up.

• 1:29:14Craig Robinson?

  Do you have to recuse yourself when, uh?

• 1:29:17Speaker 00

  No, because I really have no power in this thing. I'm just, I'm like the cruise director on the boat. I'm not the captain. I don't steer it. My job is to get everyone to play a little shuffleboard.

• 1:29:26Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:26Speaker 00

  Get them drunk and then, uh, you know, hope that we don't hit anything. But that is my job. So, no, I don't have to recuse myself. I'm allowed to be really excited should, uh, things work out for Rose. But if not, you know, she still gave an amazing performance.

• 1:29:40Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's been great having you.

• 1:29:42Speaker 00

  This has been lovely. I, again, these things are, well, it's a joy, honor to talk to you both and, um.

• 1:29:49Craig Robinson?

  Likewise.

• 1:29:50Michelle Obama?

  And it's always a joy, really, really.

• 1:29:52Speaker 00

  We have a good time.

• 1:29:53Craig Robinson?

  It's great to get to know you more and thank you for doing this.

• 1:29:56Speaker 00

  So you and I are gonna be hanging out a lot now, right?

• 1:29:59Craig Robinson?

  Anytime you wanna hang.

• 1:29:59Speaker 00

  I don't think that's true.

• 1:30:00Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:01Speaker 00

  I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna start cold calling him.

• 1:30:03Michelle Obama?

  It's true for you.

• 1:30:05Craig Robinson?

  So here's the thing, when I come to LA.

• 1:30:08Speaker 00

  Ray, it's Conan.

• 1:30:09Craig Robinson?

  When I.

• 1:30:09Speaker 00

  Let's hang.

• 1:30:10Craig Robinson?

  Let's hang.

• 1:30:11Speaker 00

  Let's shoot some hoops.

• 1:30:12Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:30:13Speaker 00

  I'm gonna drain some trees from 80 yards away that don't go anywhere near the bucket. Nowhere near.

• 1:30:19Michelle Obama?

  I tell you, that's the bit.

• 1:30:21Craig Robinson?

  And you can, and then, and then I'll go to the back alley comedy club with you.

• 1:30:27Speaker 00

  I think you would do better.

• 1:30:28Craig Robinson?

  Ventriloquism.

• 1:30:28Speaker 00

  You would do better at comedy than I would at basketball. That I promise you.

• 1:30:32Craig Robinson?

  No way.

• 1:30:33Michelle Obama?

  Would you, would you teach him how to do ventriloquism? Can you give him a lesson?

• 1:30:37Speaker 00

  I don't do ventriloquism, but I will get, I will get a person to teach you ventriloquism. But we have to get you the right dummy too. It's gotta be a good dummy.

• 1:30:49Craig Robinson?

  No way.

• 1:30:51Speaker 00

  Look at this.

• 1:30:53Michelle Obama?

  Why don't you do the honors?

• 1:30:55Speaker 00

  Do the honors.

• 1:30:56Craig Robinson?

  Look at this.

• 1:30:59Craig Robinson?

  Oh my goodness, you guys are too much.

• 1:31:01Michelle Obama?

  It's a little friend. Do you see?

• 1:31:03Speaker 00

  This is beautiful and horrifying at the same time. This dummy has had very bad work done.

• 1:31:12Michelle Obama?

  Look at his hands. His hands are huge.

• 1:31:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is the nightmare that will never end for me. I'm probably, I'm gonna be trying to do the Oscars and I'll stop because this face will be looking at me.

• 1:31:28Craig Robinson?

  Could you see if we were there in the, in the front row?

• 1:31:31Speaker 00

  Put him in the front row.

• 1:31:32Craig Robinson?

  There's Conan.

• 1:31:33Speaker 00

  We'll put him right next to Timothy Chalamet.

• 1:31:35Craig Robinson?

  And heckle you.

• 1:31:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Hey, Conan.

• 1:31:38Craig Robinson?

  Conan, you having fun up there?

• 1:31:39Speaker 00

  Get some better material, Conan.

• 1:31:43Speaker 00

  He's gonna steal the show at the Oscars. Yeah. Feel free to borrow Woody.

• 1:31:47Michelle Obama?

  This is a really tall dummy.

• 1:31:48Speaker 00

  It is.

• 1:31:49Michelle Obama?

  Well, it should go on your lap. It's on my lap. Oh, okay. Well, he's a basketball player. I get it. He's tall. He's a basketball player. This is perfect.

• 1:32:22Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Molly Graham, host of Work Life, a podcast from TED. The most important lessons about work usually aren't the ones anyone teaches you. They come from experience, from uncertainty, from figuring things out as you go. On this show, my expert guests and I explore how careers really unfold. Through change, through doubt, through the decisions that shape who we become over time. Because those moments aren't the exception, they are the work. Listen to Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.