#2387 - Gregg Braden

Gregg Braden is an author, scientist, and educator. His latest book, "Pure Human: The Hidden Truth of Our Divinity, Power, and Destiny," is available now. https://www.hayhouse.com/pure-human-hardcoverwww.greggbraden.com Buy 1 Get 1 Free Trucker Hat with code ROGAN at https://happydad.com Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in NH/OR/ONT. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Fees may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. Must register new account to receive reward Token. Must select Token BEFORE placing min. $5 bet to receive $200 in Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Min. -500 odds req. Token and Bonus Bets are single-use and non-withdrawable. Token expires 10/19/25. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 10/12/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  We just missed a fabulous conversation about your hair. You have the best hair.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  We talked.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  I would not wear headsets if I was you.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Are we recording right now?

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're going now.

• 0:20Speaker 02

  So, did you ever know Wayne Dyer?

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  No, I didn't know Wayne Dyer. Do we, wait a minute, do we have Wayne Dyer on the podcast ever? Like way, way, way, way, way back in the day?

• 0:28Speaker 02

  I was, uh, I was on a cruise with, we had the same publisher, Hay House, is our publisher, and we were on a cruise just off Australia. Of course, the sun's out there and Wayne came out and he's got a very shiny head. He said, Greg Braden. I said, yeah. He says, you see this? And I said, yeah. He said, this is a solar panel for a sex machine.

• 0:50Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  And, and I couldn't, I couldn't match that, you know? So I said, I said, well, you see this? I said, these are, every one of these, every one of these hairs is a highly advanced, finely tuned antenna to higher dimensional state spaces of information. And so that was our joke about hair and no hair.

• 1:09Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if like that's what made you enlightened, how much hair you had, no one started to fall out, you got dumber.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  Like I said, they, they, every decade of my life, they're saying, if you have it this decade, you can keep it. So when I hit my seventies, they said, you got this, this, you can probably keep it.

• 1:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, if you have minoxidil, like if you got like really good at it today, and there's a bunch of different DHT inhibitors that are topical that they can use. My friend Derek from Derek More Plates More Dates, it's a website, he's got a bunch of like protocols on how to save your hair. So people want to save their hair. But we were talking about Art Bell when we came in here, because there's a photograph of Art on the wall that like was one of the most important things for me to put up. Like we talked about it and Jamie and I were like, oh, you gotta get it, we gotta get a metal picture of Art Bell. Because that was the guy, man. When I was driving home from the Comedy Store at like one o'clock in the morning, I was listening to AM radio coast to coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye. It was my favorite. This is like all, for me, was kind of pre-internet.

• 2:10Joe Rogan?

  Internet too, like me, you know, the internet existed, but it wasn't the thing that it is now. There was no podcasts.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  No, but you know, the crazy thing is the stuff that was on that program that was all fringe is what everybody's talking about every day.

• 2:23Joe Rogan?

  Totally mainstream now.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  At lunch, right now.

• 2:25Joe Rogan?

  Area fifty one, Bob Lazar, totally mainstream.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  You know, he was so kind to me. He had me on this program before I had my first book. I self-published my first two books and I was doing talks. All over up and down the west coast, up in the Vancouver and he had heard somebody in his shop had been to one of those talks and he invited me on. No book and, and then he had me on a number of times after that. And so I, I felt, I was very honored to be on there and. You know, we talked about everything, man. He could, that was the thing. You could talk about anything, anything you wanted to talk about.

• 3:00Joe Rogan?

  It was also like art was a show where you could get real information and you could also get complete horseshit. And you had to be able to discern what is what, but art treated everyone with equal respect. Like you could call him up. Art, I'm a werewolf. You're like, interesting. Tell me more. It was never like, bitch, you're not a werewolf. You're just mentally ill. You need to get some Prozac or whatever they give you.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Well, you still, you still gotta be discerning today. You know, I think, I say it's.

• 3:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, today you more so than ever because of AI and because of bots and.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  But you know, I always say. I think it's important to have, have an open mind, but not a gaping mind. And, and there are a lot of.

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  Unfortunate use of terminology, but yes, I agree wholeheartedly.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  You know, part of the reason for that, and you know this, we, we have a global audience. A lot of those people are very hurt. Unresolved hurt. They're right on the edge. They're very fragile personalities.

• 3:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  And what they hear on the radio can be interpreted in a million different ways and it's. Uh, you know, I think there's a responsibility that comes with saying things. If you're gonna say it, make sure it's accurate.

• 4:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and your intention, like, what are you trying to do? Like, I'm never trying to hurt someone's feelings.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:18Joe Rogan?

  If someone's listening, I'm, I want you to have a better life. I want your life to be better, you know? And this is an interesting thing about whether it's bots, or whether it's, you know, an actual human being talking about stuff. The way you approach life, um, and the way that people around you approach life is very contagious. And if you're doing it in a very positive, in a loving way, in a friendly way, in a communal way, that's contagious. It's really good. It's good for everybody. But if you're bitter and shitty, it's bad for everybody. What Art was, was like, very friendly, and, and, you know, fascinated by all these things, and he was a real pro. You know what I mean?

• 5:01Joe Rogan?

  It's just like, so, when I did his show, it was like, one of the highlights of my life. And I, I got to do the internet version. I never got to do the radio version. So he was on the internet at the ti- at a time. I don't think he was, maybe he was on some radio stations, but mostly I think it was an internet thing. But I was like, yes, I'm on with Art Bell!

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Mine was all by phone. It was all landlines.

• 5:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was up by phone, too. I didn't, yeah, I did it from my house on the internet, you know? I think I did it, you know, with a headset or something, but I did.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Well, he paved the way, and we're here today.

• 5:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, he made interesting subjects, you know, like, I remember when they were talking about, uh, things like the face on Mars. And you're like, what? That sounds so kooky. And then you see pictures, you go, hey, man, what is that? Why don't I hear about that in school?

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, he had Richard Hogan on, night after night after night after night, for weeks on end, uh, when, when that came out. And actually, that face on Mars had a lot to do with my, my career path, actually.

• 5:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, so what is your take on all this? Because one of the things that happened was with the face on Mars is the initial images were very grainy, but fascinating. Cause it did kind of look like a face, but maybe even more remarkable, because sometimes there's faces, like, in the side of a rock, it looks like a face. More remarkable was the, the geometric pattern of the base of it.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:18Joe Rogan?

  And so... I kinda dismissed that when the second images came out. So this is the original image. This is the original image that freaked everybody out. They were like, "Oh, my God, there's a face on Mars." And then they came up with these upgraded images and I was like, "Well, that's not a face." It's just weird shadows and it's probably just a mountain. But, man, that's an odd shape.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Or that face has been doctored.

• 6:41Joe Rogan?

  It could be true.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:42Joe Rogan?

  But also, then I looked at it, it was like, "That shape is interesting." Like, it almost looks unnatural. Then the new images from very close to Sidonia that show a very clear square. This one's nuts. Cause this one is somewhere in the neighborhood of between three... It's plus 300 meters. Like, they don't know how much longer it is than 300 meters. But the minimum size of this thing is 300 meters across. And it's a full-on square. Right angle, right angle, right... It's like, what the hell is that?

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Well, as a...

• 7:19Joe Rogan?

  Pull that picture up, Jamie.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  As a geologist, I was fascinated when Hoagland first started talking about what was happening here.

• 7:26Joe Rogan?

  What's up, Jamie?

• 7:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that one. Yeah, yeah. The one that we bring up all the time. Which one, though? Oh, it don't matter. Just click on any of them. Some of them are doctored, though. Yeah, the non-doctored one, the one next to it, like, right there. Look at that. That's absolutely crazy.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  So I don't know if you... I'm very familiar with this image. I don't know if you can see with your mind's eye. You're looking to the lower left. That's a 90-degree angle. If you can see the rest of the 90-degree angle up at the top and over at the side, if you can trace out, that is one massive, right there. Now you can see it. Yeah, the computer has cleaned it up. Nature does not work in 90-degree angles. You're not gonna get wind erosion. Wind is called aeolian erosion. Fluvial erosion is water erosion. You're not gonna get 90-degree angles from wind or water. So, one of the tenants in archaeology, when you see 90-degree angles, there's an intentionality underlying that structure. If it were a one-off, you could say maybe it's a fluke. And it's not. And, this is on Mars.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Jamie, I don't know if you can do this. Through Freedom of Information, NASA had to release all of the lunar images up through the Clementine mission.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  And they didn't want to do that. And when they did release them, they ended up pixeling out a whole bunch of stuff, which made it look even, even more obvious than, than it was.

• 8:46Joe Rogan?

  They're just fucking with us at this point.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  So you gotta say, what is it on, on the lunar surface that we paid for with our tax dollars that we're not supposed to be seeing? And these were, these were tower structures. Do you, can you see the Clementine?

• 9:00Joe Rogan?

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• 9:43Joe Rogan?

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• 10:24Joe Rogan?

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• 10:52Joe Rogan?

  On the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.

• 11:38Joe Rogan?

  Are there any undocked, unblurred versions of it? That some nerd that snuck out of the office?

• 11:43Speaker 02

  I haven't seen them in the public domain.

• 11:45Joe Rogan?

  But you've seen them privately?

• 11:47Speaker 02

  No, but what I'm saying is what, through free of information.

• 11:50Joe Rogan?

  Right, but have you ever seen the undocked images?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  No, what they were forced to release. Why in the world would they be pixelating the images that are on there? That, that actually make them look even, even more obvious than they are. So, so what we're seeing, what Hoagland was talking about, what you're seeing on Mars is not happening in a vacuum. It's happening, we're seeing the same thing on, on the lunar surface to varying degrees. On Mars, there were three-sided, four-sided, five-sided pyramids.

• 12:16Joe Rogan?

  Where the one in the upper right-hand corner, that's odd.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  I think it's the same thing. Yeah.

• 12:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's very odd.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  So here's, here's the kicker. We're sending Viking probes, Viking 1, Viking 2, in the 70s, went to Mars. 19,000 images were captured from the orbiting part of the mission. The other craft landed on the surface. And I can just imagine being on the surface seeing this. It's, it's like this, this thing was like a spider comes down the cloud of dust. And this little tube pops up and some sticky dental floss stuff shoots out. And then they reel it in to collect dirt and microbes and they reel it into broth. Because they're looking for evidence of life on Mars and it's happening next to

• 13:04Speaker 02

  massive monuments and geometric structures that are now dated about 50,000 years BP, before present. So they're looking for microbes and signs of life next to the most massive signs of life that you could imagine.

• 13:18Joe Rogan?

  These, you said they're dated to 50,000 B.C., these structures?

• 13:22Speaker 02

  BP.

• 13:22Joe Rogan?

  BP.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  BP, before present.

• 13:24Joe Rogan?

  Before present, yeah. So, how do they know that?

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Those were, when the Sidonia mission, that's the Sidonia scientists are estimating 50,000 years, and the same with the lunar. I'm hesitant...

• 13:38Joe Rogan?

  But the Sidonian, how do they estimate that? If they're using probes from that far away...

• 13:43Speaker 02

  They're using probes and I think geologically, they're using, it's relative dating, you know, they're looking at strata and things like that. And from the lunar sites, you know, they brought back samples. And, yeah, I'm hesitant, I don't know how deep you want to go with all this, but the...

• 13:57Joe Rogan?

  As deep as you want.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Well, you know, the samples that came back from the lunar surface had traces of metals that do not occur naturally in nature, naturally in nature. They are the product of, you know, advanced machinery.

• 14:14Joe Rogan?

  Which, what metals are these?

• 14:16Speaker 02

  These were metals that came back when they brought back from the Apollo mission. And I think they brought back, oh, I need to remember the names. That's one Jamie can look up, what the metals were that came back. And they don't know where those metals came from.

• 14:31Joe Rogan?

  So is this metals from Sidonia, or is this metals from the moon?

• 14:34Speaker 02

  This is from the lunar, the lunar sites and the craters.

• 14:36Joe Rogan?

  So, the structures on the moon, how old, they think they're the same age as the structures on Sidonia?

• 14:42Speaker 02

  They're estimating 50,000 BP. You know, there's a race for the moon right now. And, I'm fascinated by this, you know, there was a time only two nations on Earth had the money and the technology to go to the moon. It was the former Soviet Union and the former United States, because neither one's the same country anymore. And, both those countries have been so broke, they haven't been able to do it. India and China are now sending the probes to the moon. We were going to moon during the Cold War. And it was a crazy time. It was actually a very civilized war. I mean, the governments were at war, but the scientists were still cooperating.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  And there was an agreement that we would not share publicly what was found on the lunar surface. And Russia did the same thing. China was never part of that agreement. So China has said, when they land, they're going to televise live what they find on the lunar surface to the people of the Earth. My sense, Joe, and this will lead into a whole conversation we're going to have here. I think they'll find the archaeological structures that we know are there, that we've seen in the photographs. The inscriptions on those structures, we're going to be able to read. Because there's a thinking that those structures are from ETs from another time, but the evidence

• 16:09Speaker 02

  suggests they're from us, from a time in our past, a cycle of civilization where we did great and beautiful things by working together until we destroyed one another through war, and that we're repeating that cycle again. So when they send-

• 16:24Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that like drawing a lot of conclusions? Isn't there other possibilities for what happened to them?

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Well, here's, this is where I'm going with this. When they see what's on those temple walls, they're going to see inscriptions in languages that we already recognize. And that will be the smoking gun, like Cuny Forum-

• 16:41Joe Rogan?

  Why do you think that?

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Because this is what the researchers who are working on these projects right now, and they're combining this with so many of what the ancient texts have always told us. And this is where, you know, it gets into a really- A kind of a sticky conversation because it depends on how, you know, people interpret these things. I'm excited for it for this reason. This is obviously no ordinary time in the history of our world and they're pushing for war. We're on the verge of global war.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  What would it mean if we found on the surface, on the lunar surface, evidence of us, humans from another time, leaving a message in our own languages, cuneiform, Sanskrit, those kinds of things? It could be one of the most unifying factors, right when we're on the precipice of war.

• 17:43Joe Rogan?

  I completely agree, but we have to make a lot of leaps in order for that to be real. Like, we haven't seen any writing, so why would they assume that there's a bunch of different kinds of writing in different languages?

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Actually, I think they have seen.

• 17:53Joe Rogan?

  Who's that?

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Well, when our space program, I think, you've had guests on that have talked about this in the past, I think, when our space program was active, there were broadcasts from the lunar surface that were cut off and astronauts had seen things that they were not allowed to see and not allowed to share.

• 18:19Joe Rogan?

  That's what I heard. It sounds fun. It sounds really fun. I want to believe that.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Well, and some of them are leaving this world now and on their, you know, on their deathbed, they can't believe that this hasn't been made, made public already. So, there have been, you know, recordings and videos and things, and I think they're authentic.

• 18:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, but this does, there's like, we haven't got boots on the ground in Sidonia, right?

• 18:42Speaker 02

  No, not Sidonia, Sidonia is Mars.

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, exactly. So, how are they seeing these inscriptions? Are you saying these inscriptions are on the moon?

• 18:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, lunar surface. I'm sorry.

• 18:52Joe Rogan?

  Okay. All right, I was confused. I was confused. So, these astronauts are saying that on the surface of the moon, they saw writing?

• 18:59Speaker 02

  They've seen structures.

• 19:01Joe Rogan?

  Structures.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Massive structures.

• 19:03Joe Rogan?

  But what about the writing?

• 19:04Speaker 02

  They...

• 19:07Speaker 02

  There were reports that they had seen the writing, but we can't verify those. We can't verify those.

• 19:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so this is just, uh, pothead talk?

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Well, you know, yes and no.

• 19:20Joe Rogan?

  Kind of, a little bit, a little bit, because we, if there's no evidence at all, that is not even an interview with a guy who talks about when I was on the moon, I saw writing.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Well, then, this is where you start going into the ancient texts.

• 19:34Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  And the traditions that are relating our, our relationship to intelligences from, from beyond this world.

• 19:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes, there's a lot of that.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  And there's, there's a lot of that.

• 19:46Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of that in various religions, too. It's, it's very fascinating.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Well, this is, this is what I think's important there. It is in religions, but I think you can break out their historical texts and there's religious texts. So, if you're reading the Bible, there's religion and history in the Bible. If you're looking at Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian texts from the Mesopotamian era, they're telling similar stories, and, and you've had guests on talking about this, where the stories are similar, but the, the religion is not part of that. And so, I think, what we're doing, we're kind of beating around the bush to a deeper conversation here, and that's why I've hesitated a couple of times, because I, I just don't want us to, you know, to, um, to get so far down one side that...

• 20:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, don't worry about that. That's what this show's all about.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 20:37Joe Rogan?

  This show's all, we should call this show Rabbit Holes.

• 20:41Joe Rogan?

  Because people are always in the middle of talking about one thing and they pivot. It doesn't matter.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Well, I think this is all tied into disclosure, and what's happening, the reluctance to, to have the full disclosure.

• 20:51Joe Rogan?

  Right. We've talked about that multiple times.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:53Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure, were you in that documentary, The Age of Disclosure?

• 20:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:58Joe Rogan?

  No. You've been in a lot of documentaries.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  I have been in a lot.

• 21:01Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to remember.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  I've been in a lot and a lot of what I said was left on the cutting room floor.

• 21:05Joe Rogan?

  Always.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  And there's a couple of reasons for that. One thing I learned, Joe, and maybe you've learned this as well. If you're gonna be in the documentary, ask if you are on the front end of the filming or the back end of the filming.

• 21:19Joe Rogan?

  What's that mean?

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Here's the reason. Are you one of the early interviews or are you one of the later interviews?

• 21:23Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  And here's the reason. They'll develop an arc and a storyline. And if you're early on, they're going to ask you questions to support that arc and that storyline. Five interviews down, somebody's gonna come on and they're gonna introduce something and the producer's gonna say, "Oh, there's a new arc and new storyline and now everything that you interviewed for uh, may not be relevant in that conversation anymore." So...

• 21:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't think you can control that, so.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  You can ask. You just ask. You say, "Where am I in the shooting process?" And if you're the first one, say, you know, "Maybe come back and interview me."

• 21:59Joe Rogan?

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• 22:42Joe Rogan?

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• 23:09Speaker 02

  So... A little bit later on.

• 23:10Joe Rogan?

  Is it your belief that there was a civilization on Mars that were us? And that we migrated to Earth and then eventually populated Earth? Is that what you're thinking? Or that we coexisted in both places?

• 23:25Speaker 02

  I think we did. And.

• 23:29Joe Rogan?

  It sounds so crazy to say.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Really?

• 23:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. It does. Well, you, you probably travel in different circles. But I mean, to, to the rational, rational people, most people hear that and they go, what, there are people on Mars? But as time goes on and more and more discoveries, we, we find out just about the structures that are on Earth and how old they might be. And the actual age of Homo sapiens, like how old we might actually be. Where a lot of, like, they found that skull in China the other day that was, uh, they just, have you seen this? It's a million-year-old Homo sapien skull, but apparently there's some debate about it. It's going, they're going back and forth, but at the very least, it's in the conversation of human beings possibly have existed, at least in this form for a million years, which is kinda nuts.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  I found that the other day.

• 24:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the, the story was published the other day, right?

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, they found it in 1990.

• 24:21Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:22Joe Rogan?

  What, I found it the other day?

• 24:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 24:24Joe Rogan?

  I read it on the BBC the other day.

• 24:25Speaker 03

  I know, I was going through the story yesterday. What happened was some team reconstructed parts of that skull with new methods that are now available. And they suggest that it could say that it was, I think it was actually one of those we've talked about, the big head, the longi.

• 24:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  It's one of those.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, the longi.

• 24:43Joe Rogan?

  That one's fascinating, because that's a larger human being.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Was it Homo sapiens?

• 24:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, they're.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  It's like a branch from the Denisovans, it's just one of those.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  So this, yeah, this is the thing, they.

• 24:52Joe Rogan?

  The na, what is it called? The na, what?

• 24:57Speaker 03

  I get confused. I just saw, I remember longi was the thing that they were saying this.

• 25:00Joe Rogan?

  Julian's.

• 25:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay, that is the other one.

• 25:02Joe Rogan?

  That's it, that's the big-headed one. Anyway, point being.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  I'm skeptical about those because they find one fragment and there's a lot of in- interpretation that's going on there. The, the consensus has been for a long time that we, we appeared. Uh, I'm just gonna preface this by saying I'm a degreed geologist, I believe in evolution, evolution is a fact. I've seen it in the fossil record for plants, animals, insects. Darwin's theory of evolution breaks down when it comes to humans, and it breaks down for this reason. We now can do what used to sound like science fiction. If you ever saw the first Jurassic Park, where they pulled the DNA out of the fossilized remains of ancient forms of life, in the movie they brought them back to life. To the best of my knowledge, we haven't done that.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  What we have done is we can extract that DNA from the bone marrow of fossilized remains of beings that we used to believe were our ancestors. And what's happening is, and this is a mind blower, we know that we didn't descend from Neanderthal. We shared the earth with them, certainly, and some people have some Neanderthal DNA because of that, but we did not descend from them. And we didn't descend from any of the other forms that you see on those traditional trees. You know, you've got modern humans here and all these lines connecting, but if you look close at the lines, most of them are broken lines, Joe, because there's no solid evidence. It's called inferred or speculative relationships. I've got a picture of it here if we want to see that.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  But what they're showing is that we showed up about 200,000 years ago, and now there's a little evidence that may have been back as far as 300,000. But the kicker is that we can now look at the DNA and reverse engineer it and say, what did it take to get where we are? And what scientists are now calling the smoking gun, and there's still a lot of controversy around this, is human chromosome number two. Human chromosome number two, the second largest chromosome in every cell of the body, it's got about 1,200 or so genes in that chromosome, and just one of them, gene TBR number one,

• 27:19Speaker 02

  is responsible for most of the brain that we have, for our neocortex. So our humanness, our empathy, sympathy, compassion, love, our cognitive abilities, the mirror neurons, all these kinds of things are because that one gene. Well, where this gets really interesting is where did chromosome two come from? And scientists have the answer, but they don't like the answer. Because chromosome two is the product of a fusion. Proceedings from National Academy of Sciences, the volume genetics, says this very clearly. We conclude that the origin of human chromosome two is the product of an ancestral fusion.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Of telomere to telomere fusion of two pre-existing chromosomes. That does not happen in nature. It can't happen in nature. So here's what they're saying. You've got two fully functional chromosomes. And on the end are the telomeres that protect those chromosomes when the cells divide. And that's why they're on the end. They take the hit. It's a trauma in a cell when those chromosomes are pulled apart and some of the DNA doesn't make it. So, nature puts telomeres on the end to take the hit. So the good DNA remains intact. And that's why it's on the ends.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Human chromosome two, those telomeres are right in the middle of the chromosome where they shouldn't be because those chromosomes were fused together about 200,000 years ago when we appeared. And if that was the only one, you could say, "Well, maybe it's a fluke." Chromosome number seven. I'm a musician when I'm not doing what I'm doing now, long before I was a researcher. And one of the things I always used to wonder about, you know, we share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees, but you don't hear chimpanzees sing. You know, you're never gonna hear a chimpanzee sing Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven." And you ask, "Well, why not?" I mean, 98% of the DNA is, we share with them.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  But it's because of chromosome seven. And for about 175 million years, this chromosome was stable in all primates, all of them. orangutan, gorilla, chimps, all the primates. All of a sudden, there's this little switch of a couple of genes that connected our tongue and our brain and our jaw. And we can sing and we can have complex speech like no other form of life. It happened 200,000 years ago. And what are the odds of that happening when chromosome two is fusing? So, I've worked with scientists my whole life, both in academia and in the corporations.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  I was a problem solver for Fortune 500 companies through the late 70s, 80s, and 90s. And one of the things I've seen about scientists is fascinating. Is that there is one way of thinking that says we take all the evidence and we force it into a pre-existing model, like all the new discoveries, trying to force that into Darwin's theory of evolution, or we allow the new evidence to lead to the story that it tells. And this is where science is stuck right now. Because the old theory, Darwin's theory of evolution is in trouble. And it's the DNA is the reason it's in trouble.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  It's no longer superficial or, you know, fossil evidence. I mean, the DNA is telling the story. And the new story suggests, at the very least, a scientist has to say there's been some kind of intelligent intervention. And this is where science gets stuck, because science is, it's not equipped to talk about any kind of an intelligent intervention. But that ties in to everything that's happening now, you know, if we're going to talk about ancient civilizations, or if we're going to talk about we've been here before, are we going to talk about, you know, what it is that is disclosure, all of those kinds of things. So, science is kind of at a crossroads right now. There, there is something called

• 31:38Speaker 02

  the standard model. And that applies to evolution. And what the evidence suggests is that we are the product of an intelligent and an intentional act. Who or what that is, that's where it gets, it can get sticky. The universe, we've had physicists on here, and really good physicists, and some of them are not aware of some of the new information that's come out now. But when I was in school back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, I was taught that the universe is dead, inert, just cold, and we happen to be lucky biology, you know, that's, that's kind of what they used to teach. Now, physicists are suggesting the universe

• 32:22Speaker 02

  is alive, it is intelligent, and it's conscious. And one of the reasons for this, and you can go to the NASA website, and you can, you can look at some of these images, the James Webb Space Telescope, they're showing galaxies that are in proximity of something that is dangerous to them, like an exploding, you know, whatever. And what they'll do is they'll create jets from the center.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Both directions, these jets that actually move them out of the way. And I talk about, I've got a new book, and I talk about that in the new book. So it's documented in the book. They actually move them to a safer place. And you say, well, maybe that's a fluke. It's a one-off. And now, but they have found that. They've found it happens time and time again.

• 33:10Joe Rogan?

  So space itself is conscious in some form?

• 33:13Speaker 02

  Conscious, okay, conscious and intelligent. And those are two, two very different things. But that is a very different story. If, if our universe is alive and intelligent and conscious, and we're the product of an intentional act, we solve our problems, Joe, and we build our world based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves. We use our resources. We, we apply our technology based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves. And we have been taught that we are a flawed form of life, that we are powerless victims of the world around us. And because of that, this is going to lead into this whole conversation, because of

• 33:58Speaker 02

  that, we need a savior. And that savior is being touted as technology. So now we are living at this time where we're being encouraged, indoctrinated, coerced, mandated sometimes, to embrace the technology outside of our bodies because we have been conditioned to believe that we are, are a broken, flawed form of life. And you're seeing this play out in the AI conversation. You're seeing it play out in what's called the transhuman movement, the intentional movement to replace our humanness with computer chips in the brain, chemicals in the blood, RFID chips under the skin.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  And it's all playing out right now, Joe. I mean, this can't go on for, you know, another 20 years because it's moving too fast. This is the generation, right? And I'm very passionate about this. The experts are saying unless we change our trajectory right now, we very probably are the last generation of pure humans that the world will ever know that by 2032, when you go to the supermarket or go to the airport, the people you talk to will be some hybrid, maybe some more and some less, but will have some kind of technology embedded into their bodies. I was on a panel recently and I was with a group of scientists

• 35:23Speaker 02

  and they said, "Well, what's wrong with that? You know, isn't that the next step? Isn't that our natural step in our evolution?" And I said, "No, it is not." And here's the reason. When we replace our natural biology with synthetics, our natural abilities begin to atrophy. Cells will... Let me just give a perfect example. We used to be taught... When I was in school, I was taught that we're born into this world with a fixed number of brain cells. And every beer I drank in college...

• 36:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I remember that.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  "All right, I'm gonna lose some brain cells." Well, what I'm gonna say next is not a reason to drink the beer. But what they found, there's a part of the human brain, it's the hippocampus, that is producing new brain cells until the last breath we take on this earth. There's a catch, and the catch tells the story. If we do not use those new brain cells in a meaningful way within about seven to 10 days, the body says, "Oh, you didn't use it, so you must not need it," and those cells will atrophy and die.

• 36:32Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense, because I always feel dumber when I come back from vacation.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Are you drinking beer on vacation?

• 36:39Joe Rogan?

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• 37:23Speaker 04

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• 37:57Speaker 02

  But that principle, so it's called use it or lose it. We've all heard that. That principle applies to every system in the human body. It applies to our cognitive abilities, to our reproductive system. And when we replace our natural biology with these synthetics, this is exactly what's happening. And we've been doing this long enough. Virtual reality goggles, for example. They've been around long enough. Psychology Magazine has published article after article. If you take young kids with malleable brains, parents are busy, they want to entertain them. So they sit them on the floor, put a virtual VR goggle on and, you know, three or four hours a day and say, hey. So here's the kid, they're just sitting there like this.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  And they're seeing images that they would never see in their backyard and colors and sounds and situations. But here's the thing, it's all being done for them. They are not using their imagination like you and I did when we were kids. They're not using their imagination. So, so now what's happening is there are parts of their brain that are atrophying. So they are diminished cognitive abilities, diminished language skills, diminished communication skills. But listen to this, the visual cortex. Which is what they're using to watch everything is enlarged in the brain. The visual cortex gets bigger because that's what.

• 39:20Joe Rogan?

  That's what Kenny exercises.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  That's what they're doing. Now, because of epigenetics, all of that can be reversed. When the kids are put into a healthy environment, go outside and play with your friends, you know, they're young enough that they can reverse that.

• 39:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  I spent a lot of time with shamans in the Yucatan and in Peru, Costa Rica, places like that. And they found the same thing. The shamans that maybe do, you know, 5,000 ayahuasca journeys because they're leading groups and every time the group does it, they do it. So, you know, they're doing that. Their visual cortices are enlarged, but their other abilities are diminished. Now, if you're a shaman in the jungle, maybe that's no big deal. But if you're a software engineer in Silicon Valley, writing code for nuclear triggers and on the weekends, you know, this is what you're doing every weekend chronically, it could be a problem.

• 40:19Joe Rogan?

  Have they done studies on that where they've shown declined ability or cognitive function due to psychedelic use?

• 40:25Speaker 02

  Uh, yes, they have.

• 40:28Joe Rogan?

  Any specific psychedelics?

• 40:30Speaker 02

  Ayahuasca was one and I hesitate because there are different kinds of ayahuasca. It's called a brew, different kinds of brew.

• 40:38Joe Rogan?

  So is the idea that people are overdoing it? They're doing it too much?

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Well, I want to be clear about this. One-off, I don't think there's any problem if it's done therapeutically. I'll give you a perfect example. I was speaking at a facility. I was invited as a guest speaker to go with a cohort through seven-day programs. And part of that program was ayahuasca, part of it was breath work, part of it was body work, part of it was natural, raw food, you know, the whole gamut.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  And there was a woman and her husband who came. And they were both healthy. They couldn't have a baby. They couldn't conceive. Her eggs were good. His sperm was good. The doctors couldn't figure it out. And they said, there's something else going on. So they came to this program. And the woman, and one time, she had a plant medicine experience. And in that experience, a being came to her and reached in and pulled her heart out. And it was all black and had stuff all over it. And the being cleaned it off and put it back in, did the same thing with the womb. And she had had, she'd been traumatized as a child.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Had been abused, had not resolved that, apparently, you know, on a deep emotional level. And so there was a part of her that felt that she wasn't worthy to conceive. And it was being, it was shown up that way. And in her plant medicine experience, this is what worked for her. And they conceived shortly after. I think they conceived that week while they were there, when they did the numbers backwards. Now, as a scientist, can you prove that? Or you can say there's a high correlation between the time that an individual has an experience like that and when, you know, when they successfully conceive. But that's a one-off. And I don't, therapeutically, I don't think there's anything, it's not gonna be a harmful one-off.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  It's the chronic use for recreation. That's where we get into trouble.

• 42:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems to me, the people that I have encountered that use it maybe a little bit too much, they seem to have a loss of a perception of how other people see them. They get slippery, like the world gets slippery. They act weird and they don't know they're acting weird. And it seems like there's like a piece of the interface has been damaged. If that makes any sense.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  It makes total sense. And I knew, no matter where we go in this conversation, to start with, it's gonna bring us back to the same, to the same place. And I can show you exactly where that slipperiness comes from in just a moment.

• 43:18Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  When we get there. Because, and I'll just, I'll say it right now, there's a part of us that doesn't live inside the body. But that the body...

• 43:31Speaker 02

  Tunes to, and I'm using that from an engineering perspective, that the body tunes to through the antenna of neurons and DNA. And this is where it gets fascinating conversation. Scientists now, a segment of scientists are beginning to look at the human body as more than soft, sticky, wet, gooey, mushy, you know, cells and skin. Joe, they're actually looking at us from an IT perspective. Now, this sounds crazy, but they're looking at the human body from the perspective of information passing through and communicating with the world around us.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  That we are such an advanced form of life. We're not primitive computer chips and wires and chemicals. We're more than that. We're neurons and cell membranes and ion potentials moving across cell walls. And the ability for us to self-regulate what is now being called soft. We are a soft technology. The ability to do that is the core of all the ancient and cherished spiritual traditions in the mystery schools. How we go about regulating this technology. So now let me just break that down a little bit.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  I mentioned during the Cold War, it was a very civilized war. I remember it was 1980s. I was, I was working, I was civilian working on contract for the DOD and with a civilian security. I had a yellow badge. It wasn't a high, it's secret clearance. It wasn't like top secret or anything. But we had access to research papers that were coming in from the Soviet Union. Even though we were at war on one level, the scientists were still cooperating. And the Soviets were the first that sent these diagrams of a human cell as a circuit diagram. Now, this is a mind blower. I mean, it wasn't a metaphor. Literally, every human cell is a gated circuit. It's got an input and output.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  It has transistor, the equivalent of transistors and resistors and capacitors. Every cell produces about .07 volts of electrical potential. And you say, "Well, that's not very much." And I agree. And then you do the math. We've got about 50 trillion cells in the body. 50 trillion cells times .07 volts, it's about 3 and 1/2 trillion volts of electrical potential in the human body. Every cell is the equivalent of a transistor. Every cell's the equivalent of a resistor, of a capacitor. We're photon emitters, and there's a whole science now about reading the photon emissions from humans. And we're photon receivers, and we store information just like a computer chip.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  And this goes on. Blockchain technology. Our DNA stores information, and the way that it's described is that it is secure, it's transparent, and it's immutable, and it's distributed. And those are exactly the terms being used for blockchain technology today, because blockchain technology in the world actually mirrors the technology of human DNA. We have a record, and you and I, every human body, we have a record of every successful genetic transaction for our species. It is transparent, it's immutable. If you know how to look for it, it's not hidden.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  It's secure, and it's distributed across all the nodes that we call humans. This goes on and on and on. The point is that we are the only form of life that can consciously self-regulate. All of this technology, and apply it to our healing, to our intuition, to our resilience, to change, to any of these kinds of things. And the ability to do that is the secret that has been hidden within the mystery schools, within the religions. And it is the reason for everything you're seeing happening in the world today.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  There's a concerted effort, Joe, to deny us our ability to express our humanness. And part of that effort is replacing our humanness with technology. So that's a big statement, and I know we'll-

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  But that's fairly recent, right? The effort to stop people from expressing their humanness, that's not recent.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  Well, so now, now we're gonna get to the crux of it.

• 48:21Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  So here's, and I wasn't sure how we'd get into this.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  I lost my mom to COVID, just a couple of years ago. And right before she died, she looked at me and she said, "Greg, the world is going to hell in a handbasket." And I always got the "going to hell" part, and I never knew exactly what the "handbasket."

• 48:43Joe Rogan?

  I never understood that phrase. What is that phrase?

• 48:45Speaker 02

  I don't know, but I knew what she meant. And what she meant was, the world looked scary to her, Joe, and it does to a lot of people. It looked like things were happening for no reason, for no apparent, there was no apparent structure. It looked like things were just popping off here and there, out of control, looked crazy. And she said, "You know, this isn't my world anymore." Well, we are in the middle of a process. The process has a beginning, it has an end. We're in it, the only way out of it is to go through it, and that's why I'm excited to have this conversation with you. The two, two parallel themes that are playing out on our, on our world right now, and we can explore both of them.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  One, there is a concerted effort, for the first time in the history of our world, to remake, the stated intent to remake our world and to remake our bodies.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  Now, we've never had the technology to do that. But we do now. So the intent to remake the world and remake our bodies, that's one conversation. The other conversation, the best science of the modern world, is showing us that we're not what we've been told. We're so much more than we've been led to believe. And we're about to give our humanness away to the technology before we even know what it means to be human if we remake our bodies. So this is, and this is in this generation, this cannot drag on for, you know, five years, 10 years, because all the tech is being pushed on us so quickly. I'm a systems thinker.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  And rather than get into the weeds of the Democrats and the Republicans and liberals and conservatives, which is all important, and we can have that conversation, but there's something much, much bigger that's playing out here. And that literally, we're in a battle for our humanness. And if we don't claim our humanness, there are powers and forces that will stop at nothing to deny us our humanness. One of the reasons they're denying it is what we just said, because it's through our humanness that we have these extraordinary potentials that empower us, as sovereign, critically thinking, self-regulating human beings.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  And it's very difficult to play out the agendas that are proposed for the world upon populations that are sovereign, critically.

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

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• 52:18Joe Rogan?

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• 53:22Speaker 02

  Thinking self-regulating human beings. So just like...

• 53:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, the problem seems to be power and control. That's the problem. And the only way to have power and control over people is to limit their ability to express themselves and then keep them at each other's throats. And that is, those are two things that are happening all the time with, with social media. The people that manage social media are consistently trying to limit the reach of people that have voices or narratives that don't approve, that they don't approve of. And... Ultimately, what you're seeing in other countries is moving to digital IDs. This is just implemented in Europe and in the UK. You're seeing in a lot of places where you're gonna have to need that to work and vote and travel.

• 54:08Joe Rogan?

  And it'll be even more of a constriction on your ability to express yourself, particularly when you think about the UK, which has had more than 12,000 arrests for very mild social media posts.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Isn't that crazy? I mean, I can't believe that. I've been watching this stuff play out.

• 54:25Joe Rogan?

  Fascinating, and the fact that our mainstream media is relatively silent on this is insane. You're seeing a complete, total attack on one of the most fundamental principles of the Western world, which is your ability to express yourself. And your ability to call out that you think that the policies that are being implemented in your country are destructive. That's, people have always been able to do that. These people are not calling for violence, they're not, they're being arrested for wild things. People are being arrested for liking posts. They're being, some people were investigated for viewing posts.

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  12,000 people arrested by the police in the UK, the same place that just implemented digital ID. I mean, this is an Orwell nightmare coming to life right in front of our face, and no one's flinching. No one in America is freaking out about what's happening in the UK at all. I mean, you get people online that are kind of freaked out by it, but they're way more freaked out by nonsensical things, like whether or not what Jimmy Kimmel said in his monologue was offensive. They'll, they'll go to the ends of the earth to fight that.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Well, they're programmed. That's the programming.

• 55:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's easy. That's a, that's a simple thing, and it doesn't freak you out. Like, if you could get Jimmy Kimmel canceled, fuck him. If you could do that, like, you have some power. You, you have power. But you really don't. If you look at what's going on, like, in the UK, what they're, what they're learning over there is that they are in a tyrannical government. And it's slowly but surely, it's got, it's got its back, it's got the hooks in, it's putting the rear naked choke in. It's got them locked up. They've gotta do something about that.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  Why do you think that's happening?

• 56:12Joe Rogan?

  Why? Because of what we talked about, power. Power and control and resources. And a very limited amount of people are controlling a huge amount of people. A limited amount of people with fantastic access to resources. And the ability, for the first time in human history, where you have individuals that are in charge of companies that are, they can shift the entire narrative of the world. So they're doing it through these tech companies for the first time ever. Totally unanticipated, 20 years ago didn't exist.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  So I'm saying for the first time, the tech allows for the remaking of our humanness.

• 56:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, it allows for new methods of control and resource extraction. And we found out that data itself is a fantastic resource and worth billions and billions of dollars. So some of the richest companies that have ever existed, they're data companies now. That's kind of nuts and that's like, we miss that. But this is all the same thing that happens with kings and with emperors. It's control. You've got to limit the people's ability to rebel, limit their ability to gather resources, keep them at each other's throats ideologically, keep them fighting over the dumbest shit possible, including the color of their skin. Fight over everything. What gods you believe in, what foods you eat, what fucking computer you use. Keep them fighting over everything

• 57:32Joe Rogan?

  and then get social media bots to continue that fight going all day long. Meanwhile, closer and closer and closer to total control of the population. Where they're even openly stating it. Hillary Clinton said in an interview, "If we lose, if we can't control social media, we lose control."

• 57:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:53Joe Rogan?

  Like, yeah, you're not supposed to have control over other human beings. Yeah, you're going to lose the thing you're not supposed to have. An elected official is supposed to be a representative for the people. You're supposed to be a person who's a public servant, where you go out and you do this incredibly moral and ethical and beautiful thing, where you sacrifice your time for the betterment of your community and your society. Instead of just a means of extracting fantastic wealth that is- Totally unprecedented and it shouldn't exist in the first place. You shouldn't be able to take that fucking job and then immediately go and start working for some Fortune 500 company making billions of dollars.

• 58:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's crazy if you're a government employee and involved in any regulatory fashion and then you go and work for the very industry you were regulating. Or if you're a person who runs for office, you get in office and then all of a sudden you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars when your salary's $170,000 a year. It's real obvious what's going on. It's just wealth extraction. And the way to do that is with control. You have to have control over people and you have to be able to censor them because they're gonna call that shit out.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  Everything you're, yes, and everything you're talking about is part of a bigger picture. So how deep you want to go?

• 59:09Joe Rogan?

  All the way to the bottom. So, but do you think the bigger picture is natural? Like, these are natural patterns that human beings follow when they get power and control over people? Because that does seem to be the case. It's just on a much grander scale now.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  I think what you're talking about, power and control, lust and greed, there are individuals that have a propensity for those things, that are gonna fall into those roles very easily. They're pawns. They don't even know that they are supporting something much darker.

• 59:42Joe Rogan?

  And what do you think is the source of this much darker thing?

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Okay, so this will open the door to answering Sedonia and everything else that we've done. So we're not, we're not totally beating around the bush. We're gonna bring this all together. I wasn't sure how deep you want to go with this, Joe, and what I'll say is, I'm gonna acknowledge, things we're talking about for a lot of people is a very different way of thinking. And it certainly is different from what I was conditioned. I was born and raised in northern Missouri, a rural community. My first degree's in geology and computer science. It's a very different way of thinking and it's where the evidence is leading us.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  What the, our most ancient and cherished texts, whether you're talking about religion or not religion, they say that we are born into an ancient struggle that began long before we ever got here. And for lack of a better term, and this is where words, words are powerful and they carry a lot of baggage. It's a struggle between good and evil. All right? We're born into this struggle between good and evil. It's not a religious struggle. When we talk about evil, I think it's important to quantify what that evil is. And to do that, we have to talk about who we are.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  There's something inside of us, Joe, and this is where science is stuck. This is where science and spirituality come together in a beautiful way, and this is where language may fail me. So I'm gonna do my best. There is something inside of us that is so rare, and so precious, and so ancient, and sacred, and powerful, and beautiful, that there are forces that have, in history, and are currently, working to deny us access to this force. The force is the reason for the ancient texts, the spiritual traditions, and there's two ways that we can have this conversation.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  You can say, we can do it from a biblical perspective and talk about angels and demons. We could do it from a high-tech perspective and talk about an advanced civilization from another world and another time, and you're talking about the same thing. Exactly the same conversation. As to our origin, there was an intentional intervention that created us. Biblical traditions are giving us one perspective.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  The Mesopotamian texts are telling us that we are the product of the blood of a higher form of life. And now the archaeological sites are revealing that those, what's reported in those Sumerian texts actually existed. I was a member back in the 90s.

• 1:02:35Joe Rogan?

  What specifically did they report in those archaeological?

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Well, let me say, I was, in the 90s, I was a member of an organization called BAR, Biblical Archaeology Review. And the idea is that you follow the instructions in the text, and you go someplace, and you dig, and there is what the text is talking about from 3,000 years ago. So they use that to try to validate the events, not the religiosity, but the events. In the Mesopotamian texts, when we talk about the kings list, you've had guests on that've talked about the kings list in Sumeria, that talks, it literally says, "When the kingship

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  descended from the heavens to the earth," and then it gives the list of the kings, "and then there was another flood, and they evacuated, and then they came back, and then they created humans." And it actually lines up, date-wise, with the 200, 250,000 years of when we were created, but there's no religion involved. So, two different languages. Are we talking about an advanced civilization, and our relationship to them a long time ago? Are we talking about angels and demons from a long time ago? Are we talking about beings with wings in the religious tradition? Or when you look at the Sumerian traditions, the kings all had wings as well.

• 1:04:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  But they're telling the same story. And what the story is, is that we Are an intentional, were the product of an intentional act and we were imbued with a force that was greater even than those who created us and that there has been an effort from that time to deny us that force.

• 1:04:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, how do you know that our force is greater than those that created us?

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  I don't know that-

• 1:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Where are you getting that from?

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  That is from, if you're familiar with the Gnostic texts. In the Gnostic texts, the, so the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1946, 47, the oldest unedited records of the Old Testament, pushed the date back a thousand years. The, in 45 and 46, the oldest records of the New Testament and the texts that were excluded were discovered in a little village along the Nile in Egypt called Nag Hammadi. It's, can I just tell, it's a crazy story.

• 1:04:57Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  There's not much firewood along the Nile in Egypt and there was a, a woman who needed kindling to feed her family, to build the fires, to feed her family and heat their home and she, she told her son, "Go find some kindling" and he was very resourceful, there's no trees, so he found an old tomb. And in the tomb were clay vases and he opened those vases and there were documents that were very dry and brittle and made great kindling.

• 1:05:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  And we don't know how many were lost before the authorities were noted, but right now there are 13 bound-

• 1:05:35Joe Rogan?

  They, they cooked a bunch of them?

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  They burned and they used them for fuel.

• 1:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  But, but so here, but here's, here's what's left. What's left, there were 13 bound books representing over 50 texts. They were the oldest records of the New Testament and they were the records that were excluded by the Catholic Church.

• 1:05:59Joe Rogan?

  Is there any images of these books?

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:02Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, can you find those?

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  Well, I've got them on my, I brought this for you.

• 1:06:05Joe Rogan?

  All right. Oh, Jamie found them.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  If you want to look at them, but, yeah, so there's, there's the 13 bound texts. So among these were things like the Gospel of Thomas, which is considered the second most heretical book.

• 1:06:20Speaker 02

  In the Nag Hammadi Library, there's the Gospel of John, also called the Secret Book of John, also called the Apocryphon of John, which is considered the first most heretical book. There are books from Gnostic women. Thunder Perfect Mind is a book by a Gnostic woman that's in there. The Gospel of James is in there. So these, and I'll be very clear, if you had Wes Huff here, I know you've had before, and I think he's brilliant scholar, he would say that these are not accepted. Because they're not accepted by the Church because of dating and because of, you know,

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  there's a lot of reasons, but there's a lot of new research showing that that these are worthy of exploring with the same validity that we give to the other texts.

• 1:07:15Joe Rogan?

  What are they dated to?

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  They're dated late first, early second century, somewhere right around there, some of them later. The Book of John, the Secret Book of John, what makes it so exceptional is that he believes, he said that it was dictated to him by Jesus of Nazareth after his crucifixion. So it wasn't before, it came after. But the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Thomas is one of the, probably the most controversial. It's 114 sayings that were recorded by Thomas.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  And the book says Didymus Thomas was the name. And it's almost like, it's different from all the other books in that it is, each saying is a teaching unto itself. And what he is saying are, again, I'm hesitating because we're just covering so much ground here.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  What...

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  Yeshua was his name. What he was teaching was so profound for his time. There were outer teachings and inner teachings. The outer teachings were for the masses and is primarily what you see in the Gospels. The inner teachings were for those initiates that could really understand what it was he was saying, and that's what the Gospel of Thomas appears to be. It did come from a later time. I don't think it invalidates that, you know, what it is that is being said in there.

• 1:08:54Joe Rogan?

  What is being said that's so controversial?

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  Well, there's 114 sayings in there, but the bottom line, and this is one, I think, that is probably one of the most well-known, where he says, "What you have, what you bring forth from within you will save you, and what you don't bring forth from within you will destroy you." He's saying there's a power inside of us that has to be expressed. And these texts are all about how we awaken that power. Okay, so the name, I'm gonna use a word and then I'll define it. The name that is given to that power traditionally is called divinity, but it has nothing to do with religion. So, that association is made because there are schools of divinity that make that, and they're great schools, they do great things.

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  But the contemporary definition of divinity, I love this, "The ability to transcend perceived limitations." And that's it. So, the ability to transcend, to become more than perceived. Joe, you and I, our listeners, we are, we are living limits that probably aren't even real. We're living within limits that we have been indoctrinated to accept about ourselves. Divinity is our ability to become the best version of ourselves. Expressions of divinity, imagination. I mean, no other form of life can do what we do with imagination. I want to talk about that in just a moment. It's more than just a picture in your mind.

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  An image in the mind is setting in emotion, a cascade of chemical effects in the human body that literally change us. We are changed in the presence of the right kind of imagination, and the books tell us how to do that. So imagination, creativity, innovation, empathy, sympathy, love, compassion, healing, forgiveness. These are expressions of human divinity. It's what sets us apart from all other forms of life. It makes us such powerful beings.

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  The purpose of evil, and this might be the most important thing that we say today, because it's a nebulous concept, good and evil, until you give it a benchmark. The purpose of evil is to deny human divinity. The purpose of evil is to deny us our greatest expressions, imagination, creativity, the ability to communicate and share our ideas, empathy, sympathy, self-healing, all of those things. So, in a very real sense, Joe, anything that denies those things is an expression of evil. So, when we find that algorithms are denying us the ability to communicate our ideas, from this perspective, that's an expression of evil.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  We find, we put something into our bodies that prevents us from healing our own bodies, that is an expression of evil. What the Gnostic texts are saying is that we are in a process that has a beginning and an end, and the purpose of the process is to deny humankind, our own humanness. That has been playing out over eons, and now the technology is allowing it to play out to a greater degree, because things like AI, things like, misused, I'm not anti-AI, it's how it's used, things like computer chips in the brain, computer-brain interface,

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  all of these things, what they're doing, Joe, is they are denying our humanness, use it or lose it. If we're using technology in place of our imagination, for example, and the psychology journals are full of articles about this, people that chronically use, artists, musicians, my wife is a voting member of the Grammys, and we just had this conversation. You've got musicians who go to ChatGPT and say, hey, write me a song. And now put some music to that song. And now you enter it with the Grammys. And you are competing against a human who has labored thirty or so years to master their

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  voice and an instrument. And you say, is that fair? Well, they're they're struggling with that right now. But so these are all expressions of of anything that denies our humanness. From that perspective, is an expression of evil. Who is doing that? That is what those texts are all about. That's what the texts are talking to us about.

• 1:13:23Speaker 03

  Here's that interesting. This is Gospel, Thomas 114. This is how it ends.

• 1:13:29Joe Rogan?

  Simon Peter said to them, let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life. Jesus said, look, I will draw her in so as to make her male, so that she too may become a living male spirit similar to you. But I say to you, every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven. Okay.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  So what they're talking.

• 1:13:52Joe Rogan?

  What is going on?

• 1:13:53Speaker 03

  I'm just.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  Pull up. I'm not sure why you chose that one.

• 1:13:56Speaker 03

  I've got just a little ground for interesting parts.

• 1:13:59Joe Rogan?

  That's a very interesting part.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  Well, we can talk about it because he it's in code. And he's talking about the marriage, the sacred marriage of masculine and feminine. And it's when you he said, when you make the two one in the inside like the outside, then you will say the mountain move and the mountain will move. And what he's talking about is is honoring the masculine and the feminine. And that's more than just a metaphor. I mean, there's a whole thing that goes with that. Can you bring up saying number 70?

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  Oh, seventy, sure.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  Or number 10?

• 1:14:32Speaker 03

  Oh, start seventy.

• 1:14:36Speaker 05

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• 1:15:07Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:51Joe Rogan?

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better, H-E-L-P, dot com. So 70 says, "Jesus says, 'If you bring it into being within you, then that which you have will save you. If you do not have it within you, then that which you do not have within you will kill you.'" Jesus says, "I will destroy this house and no one will be able to build it again."

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  This is the thing, he's, in the Christian doctrine, we're led to believe that he was a peacemaker. And what it says very clearly in the Gospel of Thomas, he says, and if you go to the early...

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  When I was looking it up, the Catholics say that some of this stuff Jesus did say.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Oh, he said it.

• 1:16:46Speaker 03

  Some of it he did not say, and some of it's flat out made up.

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  They have a problem with the dating, but they also have a problem, it doesn't support the narrative. That was, this is what, so there were two councils. There was a council of Carthage and a council of Nisea. And this is where they excluded these documents, but they had been accepted prior to that. Just like Enoch, you've heard people in here talk about the Book of Enoch. That was accepted before these as well. So what these are, they're inner teachings, not meant for the masses, based upon the concepts that he's sharing, and this is where he's saying, "There is something inside of us." And the rest of the Gospels, this is what Philip and Thomas are talking about, is that we are imbued with this force, given to no other form of life.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  It's a light, it is an intelligence. And when we are fully empowered in this intelligence, we are sovereign, critically-thinking beings, and we are no longer susceptible to, and vulnerable, to the agendas and the ideas of others, and there are multiple agendas that are out there. So from this time, and now if, when you go to the Sumerian texts, they say the same thing. They're saying, "When they beheld what it was, if they had created it, it had more light, more power than those that created it." Then you get into the whole conversation, Genesis, you know, where it says, "God created

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  man," but that's a translation error, because the original texts say "Alohim," and "Alohim" is a plural. Some people will say it's not, there's exceptions to that, but it says, "Alohim said, 'Let us create man in our image.'" So even if "Alohim" is not plural, "us" implies more than one God. So the point of all of this, and we can drill down into the weeds in all of these, but it appears that there was a collective of intelligence that is responsible for us, okay? That's not science, that's the text.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  Now you look at the science, the DNA is telling us that 200,000 years ago, there were mutations that cannot happen in nature, that imbued us with the ability to communicate with one another, and all of these things that we're talking about. And almost from the moment that we were imbued with these things, there was an attempt to deny us our power, and that attempt continues today.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  So I think a good case can be made. Everything you're seeing happen in the world, it's all important. The wars, the economies, all the conversation on climate is all important. And there's a level where it has become a distraction to keep us spun up and in fear so that we, because we're so close, Joe, we're so close as a species to awakening this fundamental force within us. The closer we get to that awakening, the more chaos you see in the world to keep us distracted. And I'll give you a perfect.

• 1:20:03Joe Rogan?

  What is causing this awakening?

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  I think consciousness is, so here's.

• 1:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Is this the battle that we have to fight, though? Is this like, because it seems like there's always a pull and a push, right?

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  I think it's a battle or a struggle, depending on what language you want to use. There's a deeper conversation, and I think we're going to get to this in a minute. But what I want to go back, I said I would elaborate on this. There's a part of us that doesn't live in our bodies. Science is struggling with this, but there's a scientific experiment. I've got it here, but if you can bring it up, so let me just.

• 1:20:39Joe Rogan?

  Give it to me, it's fine.

• 1:20:40Speaker 02

  Let me just tell you about it.

• 1:20:41Joe Rogan?

  Say what it is.

• 1:20:42Speaker 02

  But you'll be able to see it when it's on there. So here, this is a mind blower, if you haven't heard this. And if you have, let me know. I don't want to be redundant, but.

• 1:20:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, tell everybody else if I have.

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  Okay, so 2022, well, let me ask this.

• 1:21:02Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  Do you remember when you were a kid, a game called Pong?

• 1:21:06Joe Rogan?

  Pong, like ping doo doo doo doo.

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  Pong was, I think it came out in 72, and it was so primitive, Joe. It's like a.

• 1:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Sure, I remember.

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  It's like a tennis game on a screen. But computers were new and we'd never seen anything like. I would go to work. I was in a secure area, DOD, working on the Peacekeeper missile project. After lunch, guys would come in on their CRT screens and they'd be mesmerized. They couldn't help it. They were mesmerized with this game of Pong, this little boom, boom, boom, boom, and that's all it was, okay? So the point is, Pong was pervasive in our culture. Everybody knew what it was, all right? 2022, scientists did an experiment, and I've got it, he can find it, or I've got it on that. You can bring it up if you want to see it. Actually, Pong is on there if you bring up the Pong file.

• 1:21:58Speaker 03

  As far as the problem with the PowerPoint stuff, this kind of stuff happens. I don't think that's what you intended to show, is it?

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  Well, you can see, you can see part of it.

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  But that's

• 1:22:06Speaker 02

  Can you back up?

• 1:22:07Speaker 03

  No, it's

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  Back up a couple of slides, and there's, there is the, there it is, right there. And you should be able to, is it going to animate it for us?

• 1:22:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think most people know how Pong works.

• 1:22:19Speaker 02

  Okay, there it is.

• 1:22:20Joe Rogan?

  I used to have it when I was

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

  I'm trying to say the thing you were trying to get me to show, which is the next slide, is it's got an error in the

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Well, so here, so here's what they did. 2022, scientists took neurons,

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  but there was no human attached, and they put them into a Petri dish to keep them alive, and they hooked up the neurons to a computer chip. So now you've got a biology/technology interface, all right? So the neurons are hooked up to a chip. The chip was put into a computer that was loaded with Pong. The neurons began playing the game of Pong, even though there was no human attached to the neurons, and the longer they played, the better they got. They were actually learning how to play Pong better. And now the scientists are struggling with the question, how does a neuron, not attached to a human, in a Petri

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  dish, know how to play Pong? Where are the instructions? Okay, so, I remember when I was a kid, Einstein had died, and they had his brain thin-sectioned in a

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  University of Kansas. Because they wanted to see what made his brain different from everybody else. And it looked pretty much like everybody else's with one exception. He had a whole lot of folds in his brain. So when you stretch those folds out, he had more surface area. He had more neurons. So they're thinking, but there was equals mc squared wasn't in the brain. All right. So now they're looking at those neurons. They're saying, where's the instructions for Pong? You know, and they're trying to figure out where it is. Well, here's what this experiment is telling us. The instructions aren't in the neurons. The neurons are a biological antenna, molecular antenna that tune to the place in the field

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  where Pong is pervasive. All right. The field. There was a time when the field was a metaphor. You know, metaphysical people, spiritual people, you say, oh yeah, you know, it's out in the field. July 4th of 2012, the CERN superconducting supercollider made an announcement that they had discovered a field that had been predicted by Peter Higgs, the physicist Peter Higgs. The Higgs boson? Well, they found the Higgs boson. And what that implied was that there was a field supporting the boson. And now it's accepted science. They say, oh yeah, there's a field. So here's the thing, I was at a conference recently. Here's what scientists are doing. This is a hoot.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  They're still saying this. They're saying, oh yeah, there's a field out there that connects everything and their hands are doing this. The field's not out there. We're the field. Okay. 50 trillion cells in the human body. Every one of those cells has about 100 trillion atoms emerging from the field and collapsing into the field right now. You and I, we're constantly, the atoms in our bodies are emerging and collapsing into that field. We are the field and that is what makes us so powerful. This is why we can heal our bodies almost instantaneously when we know how to access this part of ourselves because we hold the blueprint that tells those atoms.

• 1:25:47Speaker 02

  How to express when they come into the body. So if you've got something you don't like in your body, what you do is you are using the gift of imagination to create a new blueprint for that having to come into. And that sounds crazy to some people. And there's a lot of science that's struggling with this. But when you get into the quantum world, you get into the fact that the Higgs field exists, you get in to the fact that imagination in the mirror neurons of the human brain. Mirror neurons were only discovered in 2004. And the thing about mirror neurons is they don't know the difference between watching an experience and having an experience.

• 1:26:30Speaker 02

  So for example, you can be on a couch on a Sunday afternoon, watching the Joe Rogan Show with an exciting guest, you're just laying there, but your heart might be racing and your body's perspiring, your muscle, or maybe you're watching soccer. Because your neurons don't know the difference between watching and having the experience. This is why porn is so addictive. Because the mirror neurons don't know the difference between having and witnessing the experience. They're going to kick up the same addictive chemicals, the same dopamine, the same levels of adrenaline, watching the image that they are having the image. Here's where our power comes from. Because the image can be imagined.

• 1:27:14Speaker 02

  When we are able to hold an image of ourselves, fully enabled, fully capacitated, fully healed, fully awakened, hold that image, what we're actually doing is we're programming the body. And this is something shamans know this, and I live in northern New Mexico, our indigenous healers all know this. I spend a lot of time in Peru, in the Andes, the Andean Peruvians, they use different language. So the point of all of this is we're not what we've been told, and we're so much more than we've been led to believe. And it is the attempt to deny that power that is driving so much of what we're seeing happening in our world today.

• 1:27:55Joe Rogan?

  And so you think the motivation of that attempt is evil?

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:00Joe Rogan?

  That it's an actual force that people are giving into.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 1:28:05Joe Rogan?

  That's why they're enacting all these levels of control. And that's why they're suppressing people, releasing bots on the internet. It's literally an expression of evil.

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  And evil, evil's not dark, not necessarily darkness. A lot of people confuse these. Darkness is simply a polar force. We, we live in a binary world. We've got to have light and dark, plus and minus, boys and girls. You know, we live in, it, the darkness is a passive polarity. Evil has an active stated purpose. And the purpose of evil has always been, whether you're looking at those ancient texts or the Sumerian texts, Mesopotamian texts, it's always been to deny, to deny us the greatest expressions of our humanness. And now we live in a time, this is no ordinary time in history. None of this is happening in a vacuum.

• 1:28:55Speaker 02

  We're barreling down the road toward this convergence of so many natural cycles and the date 2030. That has been identified by the United Nations, by the WEF, by a number of corporations, by Ray Kurzweil, in terms of AI implementation. They're all looking at 2030. And what you're seeing are the powers and the forces of the world jockeying to be in the best position when this date is upon us. And I'm not saying it's like January 1st, 2030, but the United Nations, for example, they've got, and again, I don't know if I'm being redundant here, but they've got the UN SDG 2030, UN, the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  They want implemented by the year 2030. They're not getting much traction because they're not good ideas. The goals, if you read them on the outside, Joe, they're, they're deceptively beautiful. Who doesn't want food security? Who doesn't want the end of poverty? Who doesn't want the end of disease? Now you look at the fine print. How will they achieve those goals? And that's where it gets very concerning. All right. They haven't had much traction because the, the way to get there is concerning. They're not good ideas. Now we look at World Economic Forum. I know you've had people talking about WEF. They've been around since 1971.

• 1:30:22Speaker 02

  They meet once a year in Davos. You know, they talk about what they would like the world to look like. And they have every right to do that. Some of their ideas are very dystopian, in my opinion. Things like, "You will own nothing and be happy." You know, we've heard that. Yeah. Or the "Great Reset," is the term that they coined, or the Fourth Industrial Revolution. They haven't gotten much traction. But they recognize that their goals were similar to the UN. So in 2019, these two organizations joined forces. They signed a formal document. So now, the WEF ideas have traction through the UN implementation of these Sustainable Development

• 1:31:07Speaker 02

  Goals. And the goals can be beautiful. I'm not against the goals at all. It's how we go about, do we honor ourselves and do we honor our humanness as we achieve those goals? And they're very different ideas about what it is that means. I have a video clip. WEF. Do you see that on there? Can we bring that video clip up? Because in one sentence, Klaus Schwab states the goal for the Fourth Industrial Revolution. And if he doesn't have... I just wanted to hear it in his voice. He said, "The goal is the merging of the natural world, the digital world, and the

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  biological world, our biological identity." He said, "The goal of this Fourth Industrial Revolution is to merge all of those into this massive database run by AI." And, here. You can hear it. Should be the next. It's at the end, what the Fourth Industrial Revolution will lead to is a fusion.

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  Of our physical, our digital, and our biological identities. Did you hear how he paused before he said biological?

• 1:32:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:37Speaker 02

  Could you catch that?

• 1:32:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  So he's saying, okay, the physical world's already tokenized. We already, we have a digital ID for every elephant, all the forests, the oceans, all of the, the energy resources, that's, that's already tokenized.

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  The digital world is already digital, so that's tokenized. Then there's a pause, he said, and, of course, our biological identities. Because he knows the implication of what he's saying. That's us. And right now, we are not fully implemented in, into that system. But that statement, and the reason I wanted to share that, that is what's driving everything you're seeing happening in the world. What, all the, the implementation of the technology with that statement is driving the implementation of that technology. The AI, uh, the way that we are being indoctrinated to accept it. First, accept it in our lives and then develop a dependency upon that AI.

• 1:33:36Speaker 02

  Ultimately, there will be some kind of compliance. We'll be told we need to use the AI in order to, you know, accomplish certain things. Do our banking or, you know, whatever it is. It's all being driven by AI. That sentence is a very, very powerful sentence.

• 1:33:51Joe Rogan?

  It also couldn't have been delivered by someone who looks more like a villain in a movie.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  Or, or sounds like one. Well, you're familiar, you're familiar with Klaus Schwab.

• 1:34:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, we have a photo of him in the bathroom where he was wearing that crazy Darth Vader outfit.

• 1:34:04Speaker 02

  I saw that in the bathroom and I wasn't sure. It was dark in the bathroom.

• 1:34:08Joe Rogan?

  Such an insane photo. Like, who the hell would dress like that? Who would say the things that that guy? Jamie, find that photo, please. Who would say the things that that guy has said like that? With that accent and dress this way?

• 1:34:20Speaker 02

  Well, this is exactly, well, this, this is why we're having this conversation. Joe, you know, I'm, I'm advocating for our humanness. Uh, I believe we are-

• 1:34:29Joe Rogan?

  There it is. Like, what? What are you wearing? Here, bro. Like, don't go out dressed like that. Talk like that. When you talk like that, you gotta wear suits and you gotta look real normal.

• 1:34:41Speaker 02

  What are the emblems?

• 1:34:43Speaker 03

  Is that an event where everyone was wearing that?

• 1:34:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, whatever. Don't wear it. If you talk like Darth Vader, don't wear it.

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  But see, all of this is happening from people. Look at that crazy outfit. This is happening from people that are afraid of our humanists. They don't know what it means to be human. They're afraid of dying. The transhumanists are afraid of dying, so they want to live forever.

• 1:35:04Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, they're also extremely wealthy and they want to control. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it.

• 1:35:46Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:24Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of... Kind of obvious at the same time. So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat

• 1:37:06Joe Rogan?

  and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only.

• 1:37:42Speaker 02

  Masses. And the best way to control the masses is doing it this way.

• 1:37:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:46Speaker 02

  There is a fundamental, it's a very ancient, if you don't know this, the world looks like it's spinning out of control for no reason. When you begin, and you don't have to think about it every day, but when you look at the big picture, and you can see there's a fundamental struggle between, if you want to use the language good and evil, it's a charged language, and I know that. And, and that's the language that we're using. But the, the denial of our human potential. And so the, the best way, what do we do about that, is if the purpose of the evil is to deny our humanness and our divinity, we triumph by living the best version of ourselves. We triumph

• 1:38:25Speaker 02

  by imagining freely and sharing ideas and creating and, and don't be afraid to have empathy and sympathy and compassion. And, and now you have a benchmark, because when something comes up on social media or something, we're asked to do something, we say, well, I don't know if this is a good thing or not. You ask yourself, does it affirm or does it deny my humanness? Does it affirm or deny my ability to imagine, to create, to love, to forgive, empathy, sympathy, compassion, to share ideas, deep intuition? Does it affirm or deny those? And then that'll tell you what you need to know. What you choose after that is up to the individual, but it won't be a blind choice. And I think this is, this is up for us right now.

• 1:39:08Speaker 02

  Okay, so now evil in technology and the algorithms of social media that are designed to break the social bonds that have always held us together as communities. And you know, this, this began right around 2011, I think was the Occupy movement and it pitted the rich against the poor, 99% against 1%. That's a very real issue. And we, Joe, we could have used that and come to the table and had a conversation and a healing that would bring us closer together as a society, but it was weaponized to drive us apart. And then the same thing happened.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  Men against women, blacks against whites, Christians against Muslims, Jews against Muslims. Now it's male against female and the genders are being blurred. All of this by design, breaking the social bonds that hold families and communities and societies together because we're more vulnerable when we lose these, these bonds. And the, the algorithms that do that, I mean, I'm fast, as a computer scientist, I'm fascinated by this. We have what are called information silos. So say there's parents and their kids and the mom goes to work and you know, she goes

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  on YouTube and queries a bunch of stuff and you know what happens is the, the algorithm just starts feeding you. I mean, it's everywhere. You're feeding one perspective of what it is that you've just queried. Meanwhile, dad's at work, he's doing the same thing. His algorithm has given him a separate perspective. The kids are doing the same thing and now they meet at the family dinner table and everybody believes that their story is the real story. It's the right, it's the true story. That breaks the social bonds and we're seeing this happen. We're seeing this happen in our society and You know, there is a, it's following an algorithm that's very easy. Are you familiar with Saul Alinsky? I think you're probably.

• 1:41:13Joe Rogan?

  Rules for radicals.

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, rules for radicals. This is exactly what it's following. He said, you choose a target, you freeze that target, you isolate it, you personalize it, and you polarize it. And that's exactly what's being, it's a simple algorithm and that's exactly, you think of all those things we just talked about. All of a sudden, it's all you see in the news, you're freezing it for everybody to see. You're personalizing it. What is that? How are you getting ripped off and how's it hurting you if you do that? And then, and you polarize that. And it just drives people apart because they believe what they're, what they're being shown. And so my invitation.

• 1:41:50Joe Rogan?

  Add that to the fact that people are addicted to social media. So they're addicted to being inundated by all this propaganda and all this, all these various competing narratives. You can't leave your phone alone. It's more and more addictive. Every time you pick it up, the newer ones are even better. The screens are even bigger. Now you got a foldable one, opens up to a tablet's in your pocket. And people are just full on addicted to what is a lot of negative information. Far more than you would get just living your ordinary life.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  You don't see much information, you don't see joyous information that brings us together very often. Do you? Do you see anything like that?

• 1:42:26Joe Rogan?

  You can, if you curate your feed well. But the problem is, if you spend any amount of time, you're gonna be, you're gonna be impacted by some ideas that you don't like. You know, there's gonna be a lot of negativity. Like, there's a lot of things that X shows me that I did not sign up for this person's page. I do not know. They just showed up in my feed. I do not follow them. But all of a sudden it appears and I read it and I'm like, oh, this is fucking horrible. This is, like, what a terrible take. And you see people arguing in the worst, most evil way possible. Celebrating people's deaths and hoping more people die. And you're like, oh my God, I gotta get out of here.

• 1:43:08Joe Rogan?

  That is evil. If you, I mean, I'm not saying that those human beings are evil. I think most of those human beings don't even know what they're doing.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:43:16Joe Rogan?

  They don't even think of it as real life. They think of it, it's called shitposting. You know what shitposting is? You know, people just post things for the lulls. They're just supposed to get reactions out of people. And there's a lot of that going on. There's a lot of people expressing their boredom with negativity, expressing their frustration with their station in life with negativity online and then feeding into it, arguing with other people instead of addressing their own individual, real-life problems. They start looking at all these things that they're creating online. That's their primary focus, like, throughout the day, is these stupid ideological battles they're having with people that might not even be real people. It's evil. It's kind of evil.

• 1:43:52Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:43:53Joe Rogan?

  Because it's robbing, what you're saying, it's robbing you of your opportunity to achieve a higher level of humanity.

• 1:43:59Speaker 02

  Well, I think what you said is really important. Many people are naive. Because they are participating doesn't mean that they're evil people.

• 1:44:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:09Speaker 02

  And that even goes for...

• 1:44:10Joe Rogan?

  I think most people, even people that do a lot of horrible acts.

• 1:44:13Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:44:14Joe Rogan?

  They get trapped.

• 1:44:15Speaker 02

  But see, and this is why I said what I said earlier, we can tie into this.

• 1:44:21Speaker 02

  People who have a propensity, they have a spiritual weakness. This is a spiritual battle, not religious, but it's a deeply spiritual battle that's playing out on Earth right now. And it's showing up in every facet of our lives, whether we want to think about it or not. People that have a propensity for greed, because that's their spiritual weakness, or a propensity for power or control, they will fall into those roles. They don't even know. And I've worked with people, and I've been in organizations, and I've seen it happen. They're naive, many of them. Some of them know exactly what they're doing. There are some that know exactly what they're doing, but most of them are very naive and they want to be relevant.

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  And so they will follow the pack, is what they will do. And so this is where I think you can recognize, this is where discernment comes in, to recognize it without judging it, because this is a spiritual battle.

• 1:45:22Speaker 02

  And at the end of the day, what matters, Joe, is what do we become in the presence of what the world shows us? What do we allow the events of the world to make us into? Do we allow an election that didn't turn the way that we had wanted to reduce us to the most primal levels of hate and revenge and anger? Something we'd never do in a million years, but we succumb to that? Or do we recognize what it is that has happened? And it doesn't mean we have to agree with it.

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  But the question is, do we make the decisions from our love of the families behind us and our friends and our community? Or do we make our decisions from the fear of what we perceive as our enemy in front of us? And that happens every moment of every day. I have been in a business meeting with someone who is pure evil. Pure evil. And the first time it happened, it caught me off guard. And then I learned. And it will never happen. Actually-

• 1:46:38Joe Rogan?

  Could you tell me what the meeting was?

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  I can't.

• 1:46:41Joe Rogan?

  Can you give me some details?

• 1:46:43Speaker 02

  It was a business. It was in this industry that we're in right now, in the information industry, the publishing industry. And I was with an individual who... I'm hesitating with the words that I use here. I found myself saying things that I would never say in a million years while that individual was looking at me and smiling because he was somehow-

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  Inciting me to to say those things. It was almost like in some way, there was a force that I had not learned to reckon with. I have since learned.

• 1:47:28Joe Rogan?

  Were you young at the time?

• 1:47:29Speaker 02

  I was an adult. I was younger than I am now. And and, you know, this is this comes up for all of us in different ways.

• 1:47:38Joe Rogan?

  So you but you're not taking responsibility for the words that are coming out of your mouth?

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  I couldn't stop it. That was the weird thing. I couldn't stop it.

• 1:47:45Joe Rogan?

  But do you think that was anxiety?

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't I don't know what it was, Joe. I heard myself say I was dissociated. I heard myself saying them, and I didn't want to say them.

• 1:47:55Joe Rogan?

  Right, but couldn't you attribute that to a lot of psychological factors?

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:47:59Joe Rogan?

  Like anxiety and stress and and, you know, the anticipation of this moment.

• 1:48:04Speaker 02

  I could, except.

• 1:48:05Joe Rogan?

  Power structures.

• 1:48:06Speaker 02

  I could, except that he was looking right at me, and he had this this smile. And when I saw him again, he tried to do the same thing again, and it didn't work.

• 1:48:13Joe Rogan?

  And he tried to do it. But see, this is my problem with this.

• 1:48:17Speaker 02

  He used to look right.

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  You're not taking personal responsibility for the words that are coming out of your mouth.

• 1:48:21Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:48:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, but you're saying that this guy forced those words to coming out of you. And that that is where it gets a little slippery, because like, why do you why would you not just assume that it was your own anxiety, your own stress level? People behave out of pocket sometimes. They think outside of their own character sometimes. They talk out of character, and then they go, well, I don't even know why I was saying that. I'm sorry. You know, that happens with people.

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  I agree. I agree with you 100% Joe, and that's there are other circumstances that I just can't talk about.

• 1:48:53Joe Rogan?

  But you think this person was actually an evil person?

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  Oh, I know. Yeah, I know that. I know that this person was. And and other people have had similar experiences that that continue to have similar experiences.

• 1:49:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't doubt that there are legitimately, actually, fully evil people in the world. And I think there's a lot of evidence that those people have existed historically. I mean, you think about some of the atrocities that people have done throughout history. Just, I mean, the obvious one is Hitler. But I mean, you could go through history. You could Genghis Khan. I mean, you could. There's so many people that have done unbelievably evil things in this world.

• 1:49:28Speaker 02

  When that happens, and it's happening to I mean, it's happening today.

• 1:49:31Joe Rogan?

  Right now.

• 1:49:32Speaker 02

  You don't have to look at look at history. Those, yep, that's a perfect example. To do what is happening there, when it comes human to human, the only way that a human, one human can perpetrate that onto another is to sever the relationship to their divinity. All right, and we have the choice to do that. We can, we can deny our divinity, we can have it taken from us by those who have power over us, or we can, technology can deny our divinity. But someone who, and that's closely linked to the soul, which is not the spirit. So the soul is our localized, you know, lifetime experience.

• 1:50:13Speaker 02

  When, when we sever that relationship, that is what, what allows an individual to carry out those kinds of atrocities. Because an individual who is connected to their divinity and their soul could never look another human in the eye and hurt them the way that we know that has happened in our lives. And it has, it's happened throughout history. So, so my, my focus, what I'm really passionate about, and, and it's not just like any old time in history. We're on the precipice, Joe.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  I mean, the decisions are being made within the next couple of years as to whether or not we will give our humanness away to technology, or if we allow the technology to serve us but not enslave us. AI is an example of that. The brain-computer interfaces that are going on, BCI, that's a big conversation going on right now. And if, if we get lost in the weeds of just AI, or just the BCI, it's easy to do that, but I think it's important to keep, there's a bigger picture. There's a struggle. There's an ancient struggle going on here. And it is because, and this is what's so powerful, it's because there's something

• 1:51:38Speaker 02

  inside of us that's worth the struggle. And our children are not being taught that. Our young kids are being told that they're a flawed form of life, they need something outside of our bodies, we need to protect our kids.

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  What do you think that thing is? Do you think that's what the soul is?

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  I think it's our divinity is the ability to express, and this is going back to the Gnostic texts. This is why they were heretical. Because the Gnostic texts said that we have a hotline to a higher realm, that we don't have to go through an intermediary, that we are imbued with this spark, or whatever language you want to use, given the northern form of life. And that when we awaken that, that we become god-like. Not god, but god-like. And this was the message of Yeshua in the Gnostic texts.

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  And that's the message that was denied and called heretical. Because if we are that, then we don't need an intermediary. So I think what we're looking at right now is, is do we love ourselves enough? Do we love ourselves enough to accept the gift of our humanness and what it means to be human? And what it means to be divine? And not bring religion into the conversation? And maybe just find another word, if people aren't comfortable with that word. But I really want people to know, and especially... You know, I do live events with these young kids, Joe,

• 1:53:19Speaker 02

  and they've been taught to worship technology. The computer chip is god. AI is god. And then I show them, and I showed some studies. Salk Institute in Northern California did a study, and they compared a human brain to a microprocessor. And you say, "Well, how can you make that comparison?" I said that. The microprocessor has about the same number of transistors that the human brain has of synapses in the brain. Interestingly, it's about the same number. And so they ran all these tests. And what they found, literally, the human brain... Okay, the computer chip, is it fast? Yes. Is it efficient? Yes. Is it scalable?

• 1:54:04Speaker 02

  You can only scale the chip. It'll only run as fast as the physics that of the stuff it's made of will allow, the silicon or whatever it is. And then it tops out. The human brain, is it fast? Yes. Is efficient? Yes. Is it scalable? What is the top end of a human brain? And the answer is, we don't know. Because every time we push a human brain to what we think is the limit that we've been taught to accept. This is the beauty of our divinity. What we do is we morph and adapt and open up a whole new vista of potentials. Tibetan monks, a perfect example of this.

• 1:54:46Speaker 02

  When I was in school, again, back 50s and 60s, we were taught that the human brain maxes out at about 40 hertz, 40 cycles per second. All the medical books, textbooks, everything. And then these Tibetan monks came along and they said, wow, if we do a certain kind of meditation, you know, we'll exceed that. And then they bumped, they doubled it. They went to 80, 80 hertz. And the scientist said, okay, so maybe we got it wrong once, but the human brain can't possibly do any more than that. And the monks said, well, you know, if we do a different kind of meditation, you know where this is going. And then they pushed it up to 100 hertz. And then they, they had to come up with another brain state called gamma. And then they pushed it to 120 and 130 and 150 and 1, and they, 200 cycles per second.

• 1:55:31Speaker 02

  Now they have to call it hyper gamma. But then they even went the other direction, Joe. This is a mind blower. We typically think when a human brain shows less than one cycle per second of processing, less than one hertz, that person's not there anymore. And the monks were able to consciously drive their brain state to 0.5 hertz, less than one. They're very conscious, they're very awake. They're just in a way different state of mind. And that opens the door to a lot of questions about, you know, what does it mean when you see low brain activity? Is someone actually in a healing state? Or are they really not there?

• 1:56:15Speaker 02

  You know, I think it deserves more study. But the point of all of this, and there is a point, is that through nothing more than breath and focus, so nothing external, no chemicals, no machines, those Tibetan monks demonstrated that we not only meet, but we are exceeding the brain capacity that we thought we had in the past.

• 1:56:40Joe Rogan?

  And the fascinating thing about them is you would have to do what they do to be able to understand how their brain functions. You would have to have meditated for 30-plus years in the same exact way to achieve these states that they achieve. Otherwise, you're just guessing about what that's like.

• 1:56:56Speaker 02

  I led groups in the Tibet from the, mm, from the mid-'90s to the early 2000s. And we would go to 12 monasteries and two nunneries over 26 days. And we would sit with these people. And through the translators, they would teach us. And you don't, you could spend that kind of time, but the beauty is you don't have to.

• 1:57:17Joe Rogan?

  So to get to their level, it's not like other things, like you get really good at guitar by practicing for years and years? It's not the same thing?

• 1:57:24Speaker 02

  It is. No, there is practice and there is discipline, absolutely. I'm not denying that at all.

• 1:57:28Joe Rogan?

  What I'm saying is, like, there's an Eddie Van Halen of being a monk. You know what I mean?

• 1:57:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, a regular guy can't shred like that, right? But Eddie Van Halen played guitar for thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hours with an incredible focus and became Eddie Van Halen. And if you're a monk, you know Eddie Van Halen is, right?

• 1:57:48Speaker 02

  I love this analogy, I do.

• 1:57:50Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying? To be a virtuoso, to be a Steve Ray Vaughan, to be a Jimi Hendrix, like, it requires immense amount of time.

• 1:57:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:57:58Joe Rogan?

  And I would imagine to get really good at that kind of meditation, it would be a similar thing.

• 1:58:03Speaker 02

  There's a discipline. There is a discipline and...

• 1:58:06Joe Rogan?

  But are there levels that get reached? Like, when someone's like a true master, they've been doing it for 20 years, they can do something? They can get to a state that other people can't get to?

• 1:58:15Speaker 02

  There are, Jill. And what I want to say is there are levels that you and I can do right this minute. I think, I don't know if you've had any of the folks from the Institute of HeartMath? It's a pioneering research organization in Northern California, been around since 1994.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  I've worked with them since 95. They explore the power of the human heart beyond being simply a pump in the body. That's probably the least of what it does. And what they have done and made very accessible to the average person is the ability to create coherence between the heart and the brain, and that can happen in a heartbeat. So here's what I mean by that. 1991. By the way, I want to honor your time. Are we okay on time? Yeah, we're good. Okay. Has it been an hour yet? Yeah, more than an hour, yeah. We're almost two hours. I know, I'm kidding. Don't worry about anything. Just let's talk. All right. I'm having a great time. 90... I'm too, thank you. Thank you. Fascinating.

• 1:59:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, 91, scientists discovered in the human heart, I mean, 91's not that long ago. No. And scientists are thinking, okay, we got the body nailed, you know? We know how this works. We do heart transplants, they're successful, so we must have this all figured out. They discovered 40,000 specialized cells in the human heart called sensory neurites. And when I say discovered, they've always been there, but nobody looked because they're like neurons, Joe, but they're not in the brain. And you think, why are there neurons in the heart? Right. They think independently, they feel independently, and they process independently from the neurons in the human brain.

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  And so, right there, there's a whole conversation about when we have trauma. Our trauma is recorded in two different places. You can do talk therapy in the brain. If you don't address the heart, it may feel incomplete to have that therapy. So here's why I'm sharing this. Now, we've got two neural networks, one in the heart, one in the brain. An institute of heart math made available the techniques, three very simple steps, to harmonize two neural networks into a single potent system. And we are the only form of life that can do this at will, on demand, we choose. We're the only form of life that can sit in a chair and say, in this moment, I choose. To create, the term is coherence.

• 2:00:39Speaker 02

  And the coherence, optimum coherence, is a low frequency, 0.1 hertz. So we're the only form of life that can choose to create 0.1 hertz between the heart and the brain, harmonizing two organs become one potent system in the body. And when that happens, man, there's a whole cascade of things. So let me, two categories, passive, passive benefits, just from harmonizing the heart and the brain. You supercharge the immune system. And it's something I've done at least once a day since 90, 95, when I learned it. And sometimes multiple times a day. Superimmune response.

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  You awaken longevity enzymes that everybody has in the body, but often go dormant for some people as, as they, as they age. You can wake them up pretty quick. Stem cells, you can wake them up pretty quick. Resilience to change. And this is fascinating to me because when, we all know this, young kids are really resilient to change. I come from a very dysfunctional alcoholic family. We moved, my father left when I was 10, we moved every year. And I went to a different school every year and had to make new friends every year. And it took a lot of resilience to do that. I could do that then. I probably have problems doing something like that now.

• 2:02:02Speaker 02

  Because typically, as we age, we lose resilience. That is directly linked to what's called heart rate variability, HRV. So, you know, every heartbeat that goes boom, boom, boom, boom, it's, it's the QRS complex. And the time from one peak to the next, to the next, to the next, varies. When we're young, it varies a lot. And that gives us resilience. When we age, it becomes more regular, we lose our resilience, set in our waves. Through harmonizing the heart and the brain, you can actually reset that heart rate variability to the point where it was when you were younger. And it doesn't take long to do that.

• 2:02:47Speaker 02

  So those are passive benefits. Now, active benefits. Once you're in that space, and this is where the really juicy stuff happens, deep intuition. So this is where you do precognition. You have the ability to, your heart will sense any event before it actually happens. And there's science showing why that is. Like, so many people knew 9/11 was gonna happen before it happened. And I'm not saying they did this, but they knew intuitively. This is a way to awaken that kind of intuition on demand. Deep intuition on demand. There are 1,300 positive biochemical reactions

• 2:03:31Speaker 02

  from harmonizing the heart and the brain. All right?

• 2:03:33Joe Rogan?

  And what is the method you use to harmonize?

• 2:03:36Speaker 02

  Three steps. One is you shift your focus from your mind into your heart. And I've led groups with indigenous people all over the world for 40 years. And the way they all do this is they'll always touch their heart to bring their awareness to their heart center. Some people use a finger or two. If you're in the Mayan cultures in Mexico, they use a full palm. You see this in the Middle East. People greet one another with a full palm. Or Buddhists will do it like this and nestle that prayer mudra right there. And the point is that your awareness will always go to the place on your body where you feel the touch. Like, if I touch my arm, my awareness went there. That's the first step.

• 2:04:20Joe Rogan?

  So you meet someone, you put your hands on your heart to bring awareness to your heart?

• 2:04:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can do it that way. This is what they do. So the first step in heart-brain coherence, developed by the Institute of HeartMath, you shift your awareness from your mind into your heart. First step. Second step is to slow your breathing. And the key here, it's not just enough just to slow it, but you exhale for a period of time longer than you inhale. Because we all breathe at a different rate. So, for example, if we inhale four counts... And release six. Okay, that might work for me. Somebody at, you know, higher elevation might do it differently. But the point, the point is when you release, when you exhale for a period of time longer

• 2:05:06Speaker 02

  than you inhale, that triggers the relaxation response, parasympathetic nervous system. You're telling your body, it's a language. And what you're doing is you're telling your body, I am safe. Because that's the only time you Right, and hyperventilating is the opposite of that. Yeah, you don't want to You don't feel safe at all. So, so second step is you're, you're breathing slower, longer on the exhale, focusing as if your breath is coming from your heart, while your focus is on your heart, two steps. The third step is where you create .01 hertz. You feel a feeling, a positive feeling, because you choose to feel the feeling. And this is deceptively powerful, Joe, because most

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  forms of life, including humans, only have a feeling in response to what the world shows to them. We have the ability to have a feeling because we choose to have the feeling. And what the science is showing is that the feeling of gratitude, almost 100% works for everyone. We all can sense gratitude. I mean, you can think of words like compassion, that means different things to different people, love means different things, but we can be grateful for, for our children, our families, our lives, something like that. And when we feel that feeling, it sends a signal, a very low frequency, point, 0.1 hertz, from the heart

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  to the brain, in the presence of the slower breathing. And that harmonization between the heart and the brain is what gives all the benefits that we just shared. Everything, you know, super immune response, stem cells, longevity enzymes, all of those things. And it's also if people do affirmations. This is the place, an affirmation.

• 2:07:00Speaker 02

  Is a message to the subconscious. And you have to speak in a language that the subconscious recognizes. And the coherence between the heart and the brain is like a hotline to the subconscious, but you don't have to be hypnotized. So when you're saying affirmations, if you do it during that time, they're even more potent. And, you know, we could spend a lot of time talking about the role of imagination, mirror neurons, all of that happening within the presence. But the point, going back to what you were mentioning about Tibetan monks, yeah, you

• 2:07:39Speaker 02

  can study years learning what they're learning, and there are benefits that we can access pretty quickly. And it's science-based. I mean, this is all peer-reviewed. This is the beauty of the Institute of HeartMath. They publish in peer-reviewed journals, and they've done much more than I'm just scratching the surface. If anyone is not familiar with that, I invite people to go to www.hartmath.org, and it's all free, you can check it out.

• 2:08:09Joe Rogan?

  So do you believe that the connection between the heart and the mind, when you achieve that state, that it increases your intuition?

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Between the heart and the brain.

• 2:08:20Joe Rogan?

  What did I say?

• 2:08:21Speaker 02

  Heart and the mind.

• 2:08:22Joe Rogan?

  I said the heart and the mind. It's the heart and the brain.

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  And what you said, this is such a good question, Joe, and here's the reason. And this is one of the places where it's so powerful. I mean, you can use this stuff in a business environment for this very reason. When we look at the world and solve our problems from our mind, our brain, brains, left and right brain, so, you know, you've got logic and intuition over here, those are the ego loops. And the brain will always work in polarity. That's where you're going to get right and wrong, good and bad. Success, failure, worthy, not worthy. And the ego, man, it'll spin you up in those loops for hours. But here's the thing, the heart is non-polarity.

• 2:09:08Speaker 02

  It's not, it's not a polar organ. So when you harmonize the heart and the brain, what you're doing is you're bypassing the ego loops. And here's where that can be powerful. I did this in a corporate boardroom. I was, I was the, the youngest, so I was the first tech, tech ops manager at Cisco Systems, 1990, when they got the RFP for Protocol Converter, so that all the branches of the armed services could, computers could talk to all the others before the first Gulf War. And when I would go into the boardroom with an idea, and I knew that I was going to be criticized, I'm also a Cancerian male, and if you know anything about-

• 2:09:52Joe Rogan?

  I've never heard anybody use that term. Cancerian?

• 2:09:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that's my, that's my sign. My birth sign's in cancer.

• 2:09:58Joe Rogan?

  Right, I understand what it is, but I've never heard the term.

• 2:10:00Speaker 02

  And very, emotion plays a big role. Now, it doesn't have to, you know, it's a, it's a stereotype, but it happens to be true for me.

• 2:10:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:10:09Speaker 02

  Emotion plays a big role. Criticism, coming from an alcoholic family, my father was the, the abuser and the criticizer. And I've spent my whole life, you know, working to, I'm still healing, you know, from that. So when somebody would criticize my ideas, you know, it'd be hurtful. I'd, I'd take it personally. When you move into the coherence, and you're not taking that criticism through good, bad, right, wrong, success, failure, now you can be much more objective, and you can listen to it. And when they're finished, you can say, well, you know, have you ever considered this? Because you haven't reacted, and it's a really powerful place to-

• 2:10:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, it certainly works if you're talking to a good faith actor, someone who's really wants to talk about stuff and has a legitimate criticism, but most of the time when people are criticizing you, they're trying to hurt your feelings.

• 2:10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I never read my book reviews on Amazon.

• 2:11:02Joe Rogan?

  That's a good move. I mean, it's not that criticism is bad. Criticism is critical. Like, you can learn a lot from intelligent people, from their perspectives of things. I've learned a lot from other people's criticism. But the difference between that and dwelling on criticism, that's the part where people get wrapped up in their own identity and also interpersonal conflicts. If you're the kind of person who, like, you're naturally argumentative, and then someone says something, like, "That's not fucking true", and you wanna say something back, but it's just, it's a lot of negativity and a lot of wasted time. And the way I try to describe it, especially to emerging famous people,

• 2:11:44Joe Rogan?

  and I'm like, "You have to think of your life as if, like, your energy is a number. Like, you have a hundred energies for the day. It's a unit. And if you're spending thirty or forty of those energies, on thirty or forty of those units on social media and of criticism and of negativity, it's gonna rob the sixty percent that you really enjoy. It's gonna rob your time with your friends, your family, your hobbies, your job, your community, whatever you really love. Hanging out with your dog, you know? Like, there's people right now that are going on a walk with their sweet, sweet dog, and they're thinking about some mean post that someone made, and the mean shit they're gonna say to get back at that person. Meanwhile, they're with this beautiful animal,

• 2:12:27Joe Rogan?

  and if you got on your knees, you go, "Are you having a good time?". They give you kisses and they put their paw in. Like, you're having so much fun. It's so beautiful and loving. And you're thinking about something stupid that has no bearing on this moment. And you can't escape. You can't escape. You're, like, psychically connected to this negativity.

• 2:12:45Speaker 02

  That's a tool. It's a powerful tool.

• 2:12:46Joe Rogan?

  That's why I tell them, "It's not worth it."

• 2:12:48Speaker 02

  Well, this helps to be objective, so you can hear the criticism. I'm open to criticism.

• 2:12:52Joe Rogan?

  But it should be one-on-one.

• 2:12:54Speaker 02

  Constructive.

• 2:12:55Joe Rogan?

  Honestly, it should be one-on-one with compassionate people.

• 2:12:59Speaker 02

  Not my Amazon book review.

• 2:13:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's people out there that are critics, and this is an important distinction. They're critics because they don't have anything to contribute. And they didn't want to be critics, especially professional critics. A lot of them wanted to be professional writers. But their work was not good. Like Roger Ebert wrote one of the craziest scripts of all time. Have you ever read it?

• 2:13:23Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:13:24Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever heard of it?

• 2:13:24Speaker 02

  No, I know Roger Ebert, I know the script.

• 2:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Very strange, like, out there. Wasn't it like hypersexual? What was it about? Anyway, widely panned as being fucking terrible. But this is the guy that is the guy that back in the day was the guy to review movies. And he'd be so snarky and so bi- but you have to realize, like, look at him. Look at these people. Look at the way they talk. Is this the kind of opinion you value? Like, why is this the thing that gets elevated? Wouldn't you rather have the opinion of someone who really enjoys going to the movies and has great things to say about performing? It's like someone who's enjoying it, not someone who wants to be pissed off so they can say their snarkiest, shittiest.

• 2:14:11Joe Rogan?

  And have you ever seen the videos of the two of those guys arguing with each other off camera?

• 2:14:14Speaker 02

  I have.

• 2:14:14Joe Rogan?

  Those are amazing.

• 2:14:16Speaker 02

  They called them bloopers. And I like the bloopers better in the reviews.

• 2:14:18Joe Rogan?

  Way better, because that's the real guys. They're really shitty guys. They're super shitty to each other. They're both so nasty to each other. It's like, so those are the people that are dictating what is good and bad in culture? That's nuts.

• 2:14:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:32Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem with criticism. That's the problem with critics. A lot of them are shitheads.

• 2:14:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:14:37Joe Rogan?

  So you're getting the opinions primarily of shitheads.

• 2:14:40Speaker 02

  But see, but what you're doing through coherence is that you're diffusing that shithead criticism from having the impact on you. So that you're thinking about it while you're out walking your dog on a beautiful day.

• 2:14:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a beautiful thing if you can do that. If you could separate yourself from what they say. But the only way you could really do that is if you are 100% happy with what you've done. So if you write a book, and that book, you nailed it, you love it, it's amazing. If someone's like really critical of it, it's not for you. But the thing that I made is perfect for the people who like the thing that I made. You know, and that's, if you can get to a place where you could do that, that's great. But you have to know that you put your all into what you did. So that you don't feel bad about other people's negative opinion of it.

• 2:15:27Speaker 02

  Oh, I agree.

• 2:15:27Joe Rogan?

  But if you have some thing like I kind of half-assed that, I could have spent more time on this. I was really committed to that. If you're doing that, then the criticism hurts because you know it's valid.

• 2:15:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:39Speaker 02

  Well, if you're, if you're gonna do some, I think whatever we do, book or, you know, music or whatever it is. Uh, we do, put a million percent into it. I, I learned this, you know, my, my dad left when I was 10. And our family was devastated. My mom, uh, is my mom, I have a younger brother, four years younger and myself. A mom all of a sudden was raising, you know, two boys. And we knew we were in for some pretty rough times, man. We were, we were more than broke. We ended up living in government subsidized housing and, you know, it was, it was a tough time. And, and mom gave me a book at 10 years old. She handed me this book and she said, I think that this is going to be useful to you in, in your life. And you may know this book, it was by a man named Khalil Gibran.

• 2:16:24Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:16:24Speaker 02

  It's called The Prophet.

• 2:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:26Speaker 02

  And I read it to this day and there are different pieces that mean different things to me throughout my life. But there was one piece where he talked about work. And in the environment I grew up in, my father hated his job. He hated work. My friends all hated their work. They just wanted to make money. And Khalil Gibran, this is on every email that I write, right at the bottom. Khalil Gibran said, "Work is love made visible." And I like that because it means that when we're gonna do something, you do it to the best of your ability and even more, or don't do it at all. If you're gonna do it, do it really, really well and find a way to give meaning to what you're doing.

• 2:17:08Speaker 02

  So, you know, I went to work, I used to work midnight to 6 a.m. in a warehouse loading, I don't talk about this a lot, but I was, I was loading 50 pound bags of, um, Purina kachao on the boxcars so they could go out in the morning to distribution. And the guys I work with, man, they hated, they hated their job. And I said, you know what? If I do this just right, 50-pound bags, if I use my, my legs, I can get a pretty good leg workout out of this. And then when I'm done with that after dinner, I'll come back and I can, I can get a good upper body workout and I can use my arms. And, and all of a sudden, I was getting paid for a great workout and they had a boxcar full of Purina kachao and it was love made visible. And, and that-

• 2:17:52Joe Rogan?

  That's a great perspective.

• 2:17:53Speaker 02

  Well, it has stayed with me. And, and I'm saying this because if I write a book or if I do an event, anything I do, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it really to the best of my ability. If I can't do it to the best of my ability, I'll just, if I don't believe in it, I won't do it.

• 2:18:07Joe Rogan?

  It's hard for young people to hear that because, you know, they're doing a job that sucks. They just want to get out of there and go do what they love. And sometimes a job that sucks is really good motivation to get you to work harder, to go out and do the thing that you want to do that you love. Cause I, I don't think I would ever appreciate the life that I have now if I didn't have a bunch of really terrible jobs when I was young.

• 2:18:30Speaker 02

  Well, we all did. And I think there is, there is something to be said. If, if for a young person, I mean, I used to, I used to do lawns, I was a cook. None of it was my dream, but I said, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it really, I'm gonna do this really well.

• 2:18:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's great attitude.

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

  And I think we're better people for it.

• 2:18:48Joe Rogan?

  When I got out of that, it was like, oh my God, this drains you of your life force.

• 2:18:51Speaker 02

  But we're better, we're better for it if we can approach it in that way. And then when you don't do it anymore, you stop doing it.

• 2:18:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, yeah. I mean, if you have a negative attitude about something that you're doing versus a positive attitude, you could do the exact same thing with a positive attitude and actually enjoy it.

• 2:19:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:04Joe Rogan?

  And just have fun. And especially if you're working with good people.

• 2:19:09Speaker 02

  So I have a question for you.

• 2:19:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:19:11Speaker 02

  When you invited me here, I've got forty years of work. Was there one particular facet of that work that you wanted to explore?

• 2:19:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I've seen your work for a long time. And I've seen you say a lot of really interesting things for a long time. It wasn't any one thing.

• 2:19:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:19:30Joe Rogan?

  Although there was a conversation that you had recently that I thought was very interesting. I don't know if it was recently, but it made it into my social media feeds recently, where you were talking to someone about climate change. And you were talking about carbon in the environment and its actual effect versus a lot of, a lot of the narrative that you hear about this Green New Deal stuff and just the climate, the freak out, the climate freak out from the Al Gore film, which, by the way, freaked everybody out and was totally inaccurate. It was horribly inaccurate.

• 2:20:07Joe Rogan?

  This was a film, An Inconvenient Truth from, was it 2005? Was it before that?

• 2:20:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:17Joe Rogan?

  So this film freaked, literally freaked everyone out.

• 2:20:21Speaker 02

  It was a PowerPoint, he did a PowerPoint presentation.

• 2:20:23Joe Rogan?

  2006, oh, it was, oh, wow.

• 2:20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he gave a PowerPoint presentation and recorded it.

• 2:20:27Joe Rogan?

  And this film was all about how we are fucked. And by this time, the time we're living in right now, 2025, the earth is supposed to be unlivable. I mean, it's not, I'm exaggerating, but like Miami's underwater, the coast, meanwhile, the coast haven't moved at all. And some of the wealthiest, most influential people in the world buy property on the coastline. So like that, by the way, I should tell you, you know, if the billionaires are buying beach houses, I think it's gonna be okay in that regard. But it's also like, he made a lot of money off of it. It became really weird because it became, he was speaking everywhere and he made hundreds of millions of dollars.

• 2:21:05Speaker 02

  Carbon credits. He put, he created the carbon credit system, yeah.

• 2:21:09Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing is kind of nuts when you're that wrong and nobody even calls you out on it. Like you freaked everybody out. From when I saw it in 2006, all my friends were like, oh, my God, we gotta do something now. We were all freaked out. Twenty years later, very little difference.

• 2:21:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:25Joe Rogan?

  It's not, what he said wasn't true. And there's a lot of weird inconvenient things. One of the things that Randall Carlson brings up is one of the things about carbon is there's more green now on the surface of Earth than there has been.

• 2:21:38Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  And how many years? How many years has it been?

• 2:21:42Speaker 02

  Twenty. Well NASA says, I have some slides called climate if we want to look at any of these.

• 2:21:50Joe Rogan?

  And if people don't know why that would be, well, plants eat carbon dioxide.

• 2:21:53Speaker 02

  So here's, I mean, we could do a whole three hours on this.

• 2:21:58Joe Rogan?

  Maybe we'll come back and do that.

• 2:22:00Speaker 02

  I'm a degree geologist and I began looking at climate in 1979 when I was in the energy industry in Denver, Colorado. Climate change is a fact and I want to be on record, I want to say it is a fact. It's constantly changing and Earth is warming and if we weren't, I would be concerned because the warming is cyclic and if we weren't warming now, I wonder why we're not warming now. And I want to be very clear, we need to find clean, green, sustainable forms of energy. And we've had them, Joe, for 70 years.

• 2:22:39Joe Rogan?

  Nuclear.

• 2:22:40Speaker 02

  If we were, it goes even beyond thorium. I don't know if you're familiar with thorium.

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  No, what's that?

• 2:22:45Speaker 02

  So, the Manhattan Project.

• 2:22:47Joe Rogan?

  Sounds like an antidepressant.

• 2:22:48Speaker 02

  No, no, this is, it's a mineral. It's an element. During the Manhattan Project, when they, you know, did the crash program for the weapon, they went through the periodic table to find out what elements could possibly be used to create the energy. And they chose uranium because the byproduct was the plutonium that they needed for the weapons and for the nuclear reactors. But it's not the only element that would work. Element number 90 is thorium. Thorium is abundant in the Earth's crust. It's inexpensive. It's, almost every nation has access to it, so it's very easy to get.

• 2:23:33Speaker 02

  It cannot melt down like Fukushima. It cannot be weaponized, which is one of the reasons that they're not using it. The waste can become the new fuel. It can be recycled as the fuel.

• 2:23:46Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:23:47Speaker 02

  Thorium, element number 90. And if you look it up, this is why Wikipedia is a problem. If you look up Wikipedia and some of these other things, they'll say, well, it's theoretical. We had thorium reactors back in the 80s. China, Russia, the United States had them. In Colorado, there was an Indian River facility that was largely the run on, it's called thorium salts is what they were doing.

• 2:24:13Speaker 02

  And that's just one example. So what I'm saying is if we were serious about clean, green, sustainable energy, there are technologies that they would have allowed us to have that we haven't. All right? So I just, I want to say that. When it comes to, this is part of our earlier conversation. We are being taught to demonize carbon in general. And our young people are frightened of carbon. They think carbon is bad, carbon is evil, carbon is what we're made out of. And so they have no problem relinquishing their carbon-based frail, fragile, flawed bodies for the technology because they've already been taught that carbon is bad.

• 2:24:56Joe Rogan?

  Which is bananas.

• 2:24:57Speaker 02

  Well, it is bananas. So here's the thing.

• 2:24:58Joe Rogan?

  I can't believe it worked.

• 2:25:00Speaker 02

  Well, we've got, with psychology, there's a whole story behind that. So I've got some images. I don't know if we want to bring them up.

• 2:25:05Joe Rogan?

  But that's this narrow view of carbon is so crazy.

• 2:25:09Speaker 02

  First, right now, so CO2 levels right now, about 418, 420 parts per million, which is higher than it's been in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. That's true. Is it dangerously high? No. And as a geologist, here's why I can say that. When we go look at the geologic record, there are times we've had CO2 levels have been 1,000 parts per million, 2,000 parts per million. And earth was lush, earth was green, it was definitely a little warmer. The ice melted, the sea levels did rise. Okay? That's a problem for people that build 10 feet from the sea, thinking that the sea is always going to be 10 feet away.

• 2:25:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:52Speaker 02

  All right? Some of the most abundant times for life during Jurassic period, Cretaceous, during these periods. And what's interesting is you can have very high carbon dioxide levels historically and the temperatures are low. And vice versa, you can have high temperatures and the CO2 is low. And then one of the kickers is from the Vostok ice cores. So we recognized warming was happening. Scientists went to Antarctica. Okay, I'm going to back up for people may not be familiar with this. Every year, there's a new layer

• 2:26:33Speaker 02

  of ice that is laid down in Greenland and Antarctica. And in that layer of ice is captured little air bubbles of the atmosphere and particles of pollen and particles of volcanic dust. And we can tell from that layer what the temperatures have been, what the magnetic strength of the earth has been, how strong the sun has been. I mean, all this stuff.

• 2:27:00Joe Rogan?

  Amazing.

• 2:27:00Speaker 02

  It is. It's a mind blower. I'm just amazed. We actually have ice core libraries. So, I mean, very cold refrigerated rooms where they

• 2:27:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've seen that.

• 2:27:11Speaker 02

  They take the cores.

• 2:27:12Joe Rogan?

  I've seen videos of it. It's wild.

• 2:27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. So scientists recognized the ice was

• 2:27:16Joe Rogan?

  See if you can pull a video of that up. It's so fascinating to look at if people hadn't seen it.

• 2:27:19Speaker 02

  I may have some pictures. It's under climate on the power points. So what they did was they said, let's, we don't know what's happening, is what scientists said. Let's capture as much information as we can before the ice melts. So they drilled in Vostok, Antarctica, and they ended up going back 420,000 years of layers of ice, continuous layers.

• 2:27:46Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, how deep is that?

• 2:27:47Speaker 02

  Um, I'm not sure how, how deep that is. It's, it was, they drilled below that was Vostok Lake, so they went down as far as they could before they hit the lake.

• 2:27:57Joe Rogan?

  That's a hell of a pipe.

• 2:27:58Speaker 02

  It is, and you can see, uh, so here's, here, and this was in the, the eighties and nineties, they were doing this, and the real scientists know what I'm gonna say, the real geologists that are not politicized and are not beholden to academic or corporate interests that are paying their paychecks. One of the problems is, in those ice cores, the temperature actually rises before the CO2 levels. If the CO2 is causing that rise, that's a problem, because you would expect the CO2 to rise first and then the temperature, and that's not what

• 2:28:40Speaker 02

  the ice cores, and I do have a slide of that if he wants to bring that up. Uh, so it suggests that something else is happening. And when we look at, um, it's, it's this one right, it's on the lower, lower left, the second slide, on, from the lower left.

• 2:29:07Speaker 02

  Uh, I can't see.

• 2:29:10Joe Rogan?

  This is a lot of slides, folks. There's 28 slides.

• 2:29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is a presentation.

• 2:29:15Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-nine?

• 2:29:15Speaker 02

  Presentation that I gave. Okay, right there. So what you're seeing is the, uh, the red is temperature, and blue, yeah, and the, you can see that the, uh, the red, if you're coming from the, the past to the present, the red is rising first, and then the blue follows. So the temperatures are rising first, and then the carbon dioxide is rising. Now, there's a reason for that, and a lot of people don't like this.

• 2:29:47Speaker 02

  What's driving climate change is under our feet. Humans are not causing it. All right? And I know that's a big statement and it's different than what a lot of people have heard and I'm going to acknowledge that. NASA said, I've got a slide showing that. NASA's showing 90% of the CO2 in the atmosphere, Joe, is coming from the outgassing of the oceans. All right? We know from high school science.

• 2:30:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. From high school science, the cold water holds more gas. The oceans are warming and that's a fact. And as they warm, they're releasing that CO2 into the atmosphere. The kicker is they're warming from underneath, not from top.

• 2:30:30Joe Rogan?

  So they're not, you don't think they're warming from whatever we're doing to the atmosphere?

• 2:30:35Speaker 02

  No. We, now, we are definitely contributing to CO2 in the atmosphere.

• 2:30:41Joe Rogan?

  What would be the factor, like what would be the cause of the warming from below?

• 2:30:45Speaker 02

  All right. We're going to go through this. I should probably just go, I have another one on there on magnetic migrations. Okay, so here's-

• 2:30:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus. Now you're going to freak me out.

• 2:30:57Speaker 02

  No, Randall Carlson-

• 2:30:58Joe Rogan?

  This is a pole shifting deal?

• 2:30:59Speaker 02

  No, no. And I don't see any evidence of all the things to be concerned about. Before the poles can shift, which they do occasionally, three factors have to be in place and they're not there right now. So let me just say that. Right now.

• 2:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Thank you for that, because I've been freaking out about that one.

• 2:31:14Speaker 02

  No, they, but however, we're asking the wrong question. They're not shifting, they're migrating.

• 2:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, great.

• 2:31:20Speaker 02

  And the migration, what happens?

• 2:31:29Speaker 02

  I'm not sure how far back to go. So what we know is Paul LeViolette in the 1980s, I knew him before he passed. He was a brilliant, brilliant physicist. Wrote a book called Earth Under Fire that was ridiculed a lot in the 80s. And what he said is that every once in a while, on a clockwork basis, there is a volley of cosmic, cosmic rays that comes, cosmic rays that come from the center of our Milky Way.

• 2:32:00Speaker 02

  And cosmic rays, like they're passing through you and me right now because we're mostly empty. You know, we're 99.999% nothing.

• 2:32:08Speaker 03

  Neutrinos and stuff like that.

• 2:32:09Speaker 02

  Exactly. And when they pass into the crust of the Earth, nothing happens. In the core, the core is so dense, Joe, because of the pressure of the Earth, it's iron nickel. And it's so dense that those, they can't pass through and it actually causes what's called perturbations. And it begins to heat the core of the Earth. And that causes, it shifts rotation. And right now, Japanese scientists are saying that the core has slowed or possibly even stopped. I don't know if your guests have talked about that. And as the core goes through these cycles, so you look at the cross section of the Earth, there's

• 2:32:50Speaker 02

  the inner core that's solid, the outer core is molten. Then the mantle is about 1,800 miles thick and it's magma. And then the crust is only about 36 miles thick. So, in the textbooks, the inner core always looks like it's floating right in the middle of the Earth, but that's not what's happening. When it goes, when those particles are hitting it and heating it up, it actually bumps up against the outer core, causing ripples, perturbations is what they're called, against the mantle. And the mantle begins to seep into the crust. And it's the mantle that is heating the oceans from underneath because

• 2:33:35Speaker 02

  of that. It happens about every, well, about every 12,500 years. And that number, if you talk to Randall, we just did the conference in Boulder, he was in the conference that we did up there. And that has to do with the Younger Dryas. I think you've had guests talking about, so the Younger Dryas was the last time that this happened. It happened 12,500 years before that, 12,500 years before that. You can, I've got the chart. You can see it's like clockwork.

• 2:34:04Speaker 03

  I'm looking at that NASA thing, and it said, I went to the website, it says that it's rising because the ocean is absorbing the gases, causing the water to rise over time.

• 2:34:16Speaker 02

  The ocean is, that's the equilibrium. It's outgassing.

• 2:34:21Speaker 02

  And it's also, there's an equilibrium between what we're creating in the atmosphere, and we are creating in the atmosphere, you have to be honest about it, we're creating carbon dioxide in it, the ocean is what's called the sink, it's the CO2 sink, that's soaking that up. So what's happening, Joe, is the mantle is being disturbed, it is heating the oceans from underneath, releasing the carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and that's where that's coming from. When we look into the geologic history, we've seen this happen before, and it's intense, it's brief, and it's what comes after that usually is the problem, it's not the warming, it's the cooling.

• 2:35:03Joe Rogan?

  Jay, can you put that quote back up, please? This was what was interesting, underneath it it said, "Covering more than 70% of the Earth's surface, our global ocean has a very high heat capacity, it has absorbed 90% of the warming that has occurred in recent decades due to increasing greenhouse gases." So this is acknowledging, though, that there has been an increase in the temperature because of our civilization, because of greenhouse gases.

• 2:35:32Speaker 02

  There's an increase in CO2.

• 2:35:34Joe Rogan?

  But it's saying, "An increase in warming."

• 2:35:37Speaker 02

  In warming?

• 2:35:38Joe Rogan?

  Has occurred because of increasing greenhouse gases. So what you're saying is, these greenhouse gases, we're contributing to it, but it's not the primary factor.

• 2:35:49Speaker 02

  It's not the primary, and the modeling is the problem. Jamie, would you please?

• 2:35:52Joe Rogan?

  So can I go, but before we go any further, if we didn't exist at all, if there was no industrial civilization, we existed like hunter-gatherers, would we have no impact? Would it be the exact same thing, or would it be a fraction of a degree warmer because of human society?

• 2:36:09Speaker 02

  I think we have to be honest, I don't have the numbers on this, I think we have to just be honest and say we are contributing to some degree.

• 2:36:16Joe Rogan?

  So, but you feel like it's a minor degree, and even if we were hunter-gatherers, the same pattern of Earth warming would still be going on right now?

• 2:36:24Speaker 02

  All we need to do is go back, there's an orange chart on there, Jamie, and you look at the Jurassic Pleistocene, we weren't right there.

• 2:36:30Joe Rogan?

  Is this it, right here?

• 2:36:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you can see the black, I think, is the, is the black the CO2?

• 2:36:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it says atmospheric CO2. And the blue is global temperature.

• 2:36:41Speaker 02

  How high it's been and look at the temperatures, times when it's it's high. Look in the orange over here when the CO2 is high, the temperatures are.

• 2:36:50Joe Rogan?

  What's up, Jamie?

• 2:36:50Speaker 03

  It's 500 million years ago.

• 2:36:52Joe Rogan?

  I know, nuts, right?

• 2:36:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we weren't there, and this is what you can see from.

• 2:36:56Joe Rogan?

  Say that again, Jamie.

• 2:36:56Speaker 03

  We don't have like a lot of data from back then, do we? What was going on?

• 2:36:59Speaker 02

  Data comes from different sources. You've got ice cores and then.

• 2:37:02Speaker 03

  I know, I just thought, I mean, just.

• 2:37:04Joe Rogan?

  How are they getting data from 500 million years ago?

• 2:37:07Speaker 02

  You get it from seafloor settlements.

• 2:37:08Joe Rogan?

  Geez.

• 2:37:09Speaker 02

  Is one of the things you can do there. There's a little sea creature called the Globodirhina.

• 2:37:15Speaker 03

  Are those tests getting better as we get, like more recently and now, I guess?

• 2:37:20Speaker 02

  So, so we can go into this as as deep as you want. What I want you to see here is there's not a direct correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past. We can say that. And we can also see that CO2 levels have been higher in the past than they are now. And Earth was lush, it was green, life was flourishing.

• 2:37:42Joe Rogan?

  As Randall Carlson always says, global cooling is what's really terrifying.

• 2:37:47Speaker 02

  Now, here's, now I'm going to tie it back in to what we began this conversation with. There's a concerted effort to remake the world and to remake our bodies. If, I did a little experiment in January of last year. And I said, okay, what if we met all of the climate goals? What would Earth look like? I'm not going to push back against them, I just take.

• 2:38:12Speaker 03

  Right, let's just say what would, if you just zero, zero carbon output.

• 2:38:15Speaker 02

  We're only at 240 parts per million right now, which historically is low. We're on the low end right now. If we were to meet those goals, they want us to go back to, we would meet the goals. It would push it back to about 100 and, or 236 parts per million is what they're looking at. 180 parts per million is dangerously low. So there, and this isn't something like you can just take a dial and and adjust a little bit here and there. They are are pushing, if we were to meet those goals, Earth would have.

• 2:38:53Speaker 02

  By the way, they're also pushing for global cooling of 10 degrees, global average. We're at 56 Fahrenheit, global average, right now. They want 46 degrees. The last time on Earth we had those kinds of temperatures and that kind of CO2 was the Pleistocene era. It was not good for us. It's not good for life. It's not good for humans.

• 2:39:16Joe Rogan?

  Who are "they"?

• 2:39:17Speaker 02

  They are...

• 2:39:18Joe Rogan?

  Why would they want to do such a self-destructive thing? Do they know this? Do they know this data?

• 2:39:24Speaker 02

  Well, let's break it down. Joe, let's just, let's step through this.

• 2:39:26Joe Rogan?

  Okay, let's step through this.

• 2:39:28Speaker 02

  Climate.

• 2:39:28Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:39:29Speaker 02

  If we were to meet those climate goals, it's not good for us. All right? Let's put that...

• 2:39:35Joe Rogan?

  As a human species?

• 2:39:37Speaker 02

  As a human species. Put that over here.

• 2:39:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:39:39Speaker 02

  We're being pushed for war, and I think you can see that. And the nations of the Earth that have the capability for war are waging that war. And what's happening is we're depleting our resources as nations. We are, and I just did a search on this the other night. The superpowers are dangerously low on weapons and on the ability, humans, to fight in those wars. If Earth ever needed to fight, we don't have what we need right now. So our weapons are being depleted. Okay, and let's put that over here. Now, there's a concerted effort to break the social bonds that have held us together

• 2:40:21Speaker 02

  as societies, as nations, as communities. And that is working very successfully. We're breaking down those borders. That's not good for us. That's not good for anyone. Now, you look at the transhuman movement to replace us with technology, with machines, to debilitate our ability for critical thinking, our ability for imagination, for creativity, for all the reasons that we just talked about. Use it or lose it. When we give our power away to that technology, we're not the best version of ourselves. That's not good for us. None of those are good for us. So if I said that to you, what would you say to me?

• 2:41:07Speaker 02

  Who would that be good for? If it's not good for us, who's it good for?

• 2:41:11Joe Rogan?

  Satan.

• 2:41:13Speaker 02

  Well, now is where you go back and you look at all those ancient texts. You look at the, and depending on what language you're using, if you're looking at Sumerian texts, this world was never ours to begin with, is what those texts say. And there is a good argument that can be made that Earth is being modified in ways that are not necessarily good for us. Who are they good for? That there's a whole conversation that we can have, you know, around that.

• 2:41:45Joe Rogan?

  So you think climate is a part of this whole agenda of control?

• 2:41:50Speaker 02

  I do.

• 2:41:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:52Speaker 02

  I think, I think there's a, and it's not just my opinion. I think the evidence supports that because why would we want to push this planet back? I mean NASA says we're greener now than we have been in 20 years. Why would we want to push this planet back to, to the environment of the Pleistocene era?

• 2:42:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, we want to have control over things all the time. And when you see certain areas that become too hot for a certain kind of agriculture or things change, or certain lakes dry up, there's things like that that happen that people freak out about because we want control. That's why we want to bring animals back from extinction. Like, we want control over everything around us because it makes us feel better. But the problem with this one is you're getting people that are saying we're going to lower the Earth's temperature. Like, you didn't, we didn't vote on that. Like, just because it's your idea and you people are moving in this direction, you have so much money, you're making a decision for literally eight billion people.

• 2:42:49Speaker 02

  These are unelected, unelected officials.

• 2:42:50Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts. It's nuts that they think they could spray things in the sky to reflect particles, reflective particles, to dull out the sun and lower the temperature of the Earth. Like, that, that's an insane... Same notion.

• 2:43:03Speaker 02

  And especially if we're moving in the cooler anyway, but all of this, I mean, so now we've identified these things. I think it's useless to be angry. I think what we do is we recognize, Joe, that all of these applications of technology are a reflection of the way we've been conditioned to think about ourselves. When we wake up to become the best version of ourselves, then we recognize it makes sense to go clean and green. It makes sense to to grow our food differently. It makes sense to have different kinds of energy because we recognize our relationship to ourselves and the world around us.

• 2:43:41Joe Rogan?

  Right, not because we're being manipulated.

• 2:43:43Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 2:43:44Joe Rogan?

  So it could be done the right way. Like, the real issue that we have as a society, one of the, not the, but war is obviously the, but one of the big ones is pollution. Like, that is undeniable.

• 2:43:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:43:56Joe Rogan?

  When you see, like, what's going on in India with some of those rivers, where it's just, the entire river is just choked up with plastic.

• 2:44:04Speaker 02

  I've been there. I've seen that.

• 2:44:05Joe Rogan?

  That is insane, that as a, as a human race that we allow that. That's insane. Like, but then you look at places like, is it Singapore, Jamie, that we watched that video, where it was fascinating there? I believe it's Singapore, where they have, like, the most sophisticated recycling program, like, unbelievably efficient. And they take that stuff and use it to pave the roads. They they burn things down, specific materials. They have, I mean, it's an insane job they do of of taking the the garbage. So we know it's possible.

• 2:44:42Speaker 02

  It is possible. So everything we're talking about is a consequence of what happens when we give our humanness away and we believe that we are a flawed species and that we need something outside of ourselves to be the best version of ourselves, or that we believe we're powerless, so we say to someone else, fix it and make it better.

• 2:45:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:45:02Speaker 02

  We're now, right now, and the AI is driving this conversation, we are at the point where we are are being asked by the conditions of the world to accept the deep truth of what it means to be human. And in that humanness, when we accept our ability that there's a part of us that doesn't live in here, what that means is the more that we can honor The antenna, the gift of the body to access that. We become healthier, we become the best version of ourselves. We begin to live differently, we begin to eat differently, we begin to recycle differently, we use energy differently.

• 2:45:42Speaker 02

  Because we're living in the world, a reflection of the new honor and respect that we have for the gift of our bodies. And nobody's telling our young kids anything like this.

• 2:45:54Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:45:55Speaker 02

  We have to protect our children.

• 2:45:56Joe Rogan?

  It would help everybody, just to think that way. It would help everybody.

• 2:46:00Speaker 02

  Well, this is-

• 2:46:01Joe Rogan?

  No matter what you're trying to do with life.

• 2:46:03Speaker 02

  Well, this is, but the AI right now is, is the tip of the spear. This is what they're using, they, again, the, the powers that be. Because we're so close, Joe, for the first time in a very long time, on a mass level, to awakening to what it means to be human. There are pockets that are coming together, and we're saying, no. No to war. We're saying, I think, in this generation, I think you will see us walk away from the use of war to solve our problems. What happens if they throw a war? Nobody, nobody goes. I think you're gonna see that happen, because people are saying, this isn't right. This isn't right.

• 2:46:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a very powerful message, and I hope you're right. But if there was one thing that I feel like most people would bet on, is that there's always gonna be war.

• 2:46:54Speaker 02

  I think not the way-

• 2:46:55Joe Rogan?

  It's a shame.

• 2:46:56Speaker 02

  Not the way we're seeing it, not the way we're seeing it right now. Not the way. This ties in to the disclosure conversation. Because when you talk to the people behind the scenes in disclosure, we obviously, I don't think anybody would have a problem with a flying saucer in an air, air force hangar somewhere. We've, we've seen it in movies where, you know, I don't think anybody's surprised by, I don't think anybody's got a problem with, with a gray alien, you know, in, in an air force conference room somewhere. But the implications, if we've had this relationship for so long, we know they didn't get here on a Chevy V8 engine. I mean, they've got some pretty high tech.

• 2:47:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:47:39Speaker 02

  And what the, part of the implications are, that we are being asked to step up-

• 2:47:49Speaker 02

  To become a different species to to meet the intelligence that is being offered to us. And there are different forms of that intelligence. Some of that intelligence is prone to war. And that's not the ones that we we want to to necessarily.

• 2:48:11Joe Rogan?

  That's so hard to believe that they get so far. They could travel from other places in the universe, yet they still have war.

• 2:48:17Speaker 02

  That's the disappointing thing for me. And so this is where we go back, the ancient texts. They begin with a war in the heavens, or what the Bible calls, you know, the fall. And the war is what destroyed a planet in our solar system. I think Randall's probably talked about that.

• 2:48:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the the kooky theory about Mars, too, right?

• 2:48:37Speaker 02

  Mars used to have an atmosphere. It doesn't anymore. And they believe that there is a compelling argument that could be made for war destroying. I think when we get there and we see the archaeological remnants that are there, I think we'll have the answer to that. But that is scary, isn't it, Joe, that you have be so advanced and still have the still allow differences to be so great that the only way to solve them is is to hurt one another and destroy one another?

• 2:49:11Joe Rogan?

  But also makes for great science fiction movies. Because without the war in space, you have no Star Trek. You know, you have no Star Wars.

• 2:49:20Speaker 02

  Well, maybe this is where we break that cycle. Maybe we wake up our humanness and we accept the power of human divinity and we accept what it means. And we imbue our children with a deep sense of of a healthy sense that there's something very special about them worth preserving so that they care about themselves. And then that begins to inform the way we live in the world. We would be living in a very, very different world.

• 2:49:48Joe Rogan?

  I think you're right. And I think you saying that is very important because it gets that word out there and people start to consider it and think about it. And I think that's the only way people find these things is for people like you come out and have these conversations and spark thoughts in people's heads, like, maybe I'm thinking and behaving and living the wrong way. And maybe maybe we could just become more united and more positive and recognize this incredible gift that we have of this life.

• 2:50:15Speaker 02

  But look at what the science, see the science. The science is so compartmentalized, and I saw this when I was working even in the industry. So a discovery is made in genetics and it stays in that genetics box and it gets published in some obscure. The new way of thinking is looking at humans from an IT perspective. So there are journals like the Journal of Soft Computing. I didn't even talk about that. The Journal of Soft Computing has just come out and said that human DNA, three dimensional human DNA, is a fractal antenna. Now, what's that mean? An antenna tunes to a signal. A fractal antenna tunes to a vast array of signals across the broad spectrum.

• 2:50:58Speaker 02

  We've got 50 trillion of them in our bodies and the journal is saying that, but who reads that? Who's reading the Journal of Soft Computing?

• 2:51:05Joe Rogan?

  Thank God you are.

• 2:51:06Speaker 02

  Who has a beautiful hardbound copy of the Journal of Soft Computing next to their bed like I do?

• 2:51:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, the fact that you know it, you just told people, now people know.

• 2:51:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's a very different way of thinking, but if we can begin seeing ourselves and really, I think the greatest task that we're cherished, that we're tasked with right now is to cherish, and honor, and care for the gift of the human body. Because I believe it is a gift because there was an intervention that created the mutations that give us what we have today. We don't know who or what, but we're not the product of natural evolution. And until we understand fully what that is, Joe, why would we want to give that away to technology? Before we even know what it means to be human. And once we give it away, we can never go back. This is how you lose a species.

• 2:52:00Speaker 02

  And I think we're worth preserving, and that's my message. I'm advocating for our humanness, for our divinity, for our love.

• 2:52:08Speaker 02

  Because that's what sets us apart from all other forms of life, and I think we're worth preserving.

• 2:52:14Joe Rogan?

  I agree with you 100%, and I appreciate you very much, and thank you very much for coming on here, it was a lot of fun, and let's do it again.

• 2:52:22Speaker 02

  Are you saying we're finished?

• 2:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're done, man, we are almost three hours.

• 2:52:26Speaker 02

  Oh wow, okay.

• 2:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 2:52:28Speaker 02

  All right, Joe, well, thank you very-

• 2:52:29Joe Rogan?

  But I really enjoyed it, thank you.

• 2:52:30Speaker 02

  You know, thank you, you are just an amazing listener, and I appreciate the long format and the opportunity to flesh out these ideas in their entirety, so thank you for that.

• 2:52:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's my pleasure, thank you for being interesting, so I could just listen. It's like, but it's, you know, I only have people on the podcast that I'm interested in, so when I saw a lot of your stuff online, I'm like, this guy's fascinating.

• 2:52:50Speaker 02

  Well, thank you.

• 2:52:51Joe Rogan?

  And it was great, I really enjoyed it, thank you very much.

• 2:52:52Speaker 02

  All right, before we go next, thank you so much.

• 2:52:53Joe Rogan?

  Let's do it again.

• 2:52:54Speaker 02

  All right, thank you.

• 2:52:55Joe Rogan?

  We'll do it again sometime. Bye.

• 2:54:18Speaker 00

  If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonilurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepboundslily.com.

• 2:54:42Speaker 00

  Say hello to smooth, sugar-like sweetness with Truvia Alulose Plus Stevia Sweetener and Monk Fruit Sweetener. This blend delivers balanced sweetness that minimizes aftertaste with zero calories per serving. Designed to fit everyday moments, Truvia Alulose Blend measures cup for cup like sugar, making it effortless to swap into beverages, baking, and even savory dishes. Find Truvia Alulose Plus Stevia Sweetener and Monk Fruit Sweetener online and nationwide at Kroger, Target, and your favorite local grocery retailer.