“They Wanted A Bad Guy, So I Became One” - Ryan Garcia

Ryan Garcia is a professional boxer and a WBC interim lightweight champion. What’s it like being the bad boy of boxing? Most people know Ryan Garcia from the chaos of his social media — the outbursts, controversies, and viral moments. But behind the headlines is still an elite fighter operating at the very top of the sport. So who is Ryan Garcia away from the internet? What’s it like living under that level of pressure, fame, and scrutiny whilst trying to remain a world champion? Expect to learn how Ryan grew up and why he started boxing from a very young age, the most memorable moments of Ryan’s career, when Ryan figured out his life trajectory had gone too far the wrong way, if anger really helps you as a boxer, Ryan’s thoughts on Jake Paul, Conor Benn, McGregor and others, if Ryan has fears about future CTE issues and much more… - Get 160+ lab tests for just $365 and save an extra $25 at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get a free bottle of D3K2, an AG1 Welcome Kit, and more when you first subscribe at https://ag1.info/modernwisdom Get 15% off your first order of my favourite Non-Alcoholic Brew at https://athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom Get a Free Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular flavours with your first purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom - 0:00 Do Boxers Actually Think in the Ring? 0:48 Can Ryan Remember His Fights? 4:10 The Sacrifices You Have to Make to Be the Best 7:44 Why Ryan Started Boxing 10:47 The Biggest Lessons From Ryan’s Career 12:17 When Ryan Realised He Was Crashing Out 18:57 The Story Behind the Bohemian Grove Vision 21:53 What Really Happens at Bohemian Grove? 26:22 Does Anger Make You a Better Fighter? 30:23 Will Ryan Fight Conor Benn? 32:32 Is the Zuffa Deal Good For Boxing? 38:11 The Main Reason Fights Don’t Happen 40:24 How the Ali Act is Changing Boxing 41:20 Is Jake Paul a Legitimate Boxer? 47:39 Are Mayweather and Pacquiao Past It? 51:00 How Ryan Changed His Attitude Towards Money 55:34 Why It’s So Important to Have a Good Team Around You 01:00:41 Could Conor McGregor Make a Comeback? 01:05:37 Is Ryan Worried About the Long-Term Impacts of Boxing? 01:09:35 How Boxers Stay Ready for Anything - Get access to every episode 10 hours before YouTube by subscribing for free on Spotify - https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - https://chriswillx.com/books/ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic here - https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  I'm fascinated by you saying that you don't think when you're in the ring.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  Uh uh.

• 0:04Chris Williamson?

  What's happening?

• 0:05Speaker 01

  I'm just picking up on cues, really. Um, and then kind of like there's these instincts and intuition that are just kind of there. You know, like, oh, maybe like you kind of get a feeling where, okay, I need to start putting pressure on this man. Or I need to, you know, uh, move a little bit. It's just like kind of momentum shifts that you're kind of noticing little by little.

• 0:24Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  And then, um, there's obviously times where I'm thinking like sometimes I'll just have like mantras in my head like that I've done in camp. You know, stay focused, like a last fight the whole time when I was fighting him, I would just say like, stay focused, stay focused, stay focused. You know, so it was just like little things that I would say in my mind, but I'm not really necessarily thinking.

• 0:42Chris Williamson?

  Hmm, not thinking.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  But thinking.

• 0:46Chris Williamson?

  But yeah, of course. Does that mean when you look back on a fight, how much of it can you remember?

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Hmm, the pivotal moments like, um,

• 0:58Speaker 01

  like my last fight, uh, I remember I started getting comfortable in like the 11th round, just messing with the guy, smacking him, looking at the trainer and then lowering my hand a little bit and then, you know, tasting a right hand and I was like, don't do that. And then kind of like snapping myself back in. So I remember those moments. I remember, you know, when I dropped them, but I mean, for the most part, I have to like look back at the fight to really recall most of it.

• 1:24Chris Williamson?

  And that's strange.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  It is weird.

• 1:26Chris Williamson?

  It's so strange. So I'm friends with musicians, comedians, sports people, and I do live stuff too, these conversations. Once you get into a flow state and you're not thinking that much and things are just happening.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39Chris Williamson?

  That's what people want to get to. It's really enjoyable. It's where your performance is at its best. You're moving quickly. Your brain isn't getting in the way of what you're supposed to do.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49Chris Williamson?

  But it's also the thing that kind of robs you of your memory because you're not thinking and you're just doing. Yeah, you're, you, you can't remember. It's so funny. I mean, obviously your job is not to have a good time.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02Chris Williamson?

  Your job is to win.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03Chris Williamson?

  And winning requires you to be in the best state possible.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07Chris Williamson?

  But it is funny that the Mental state that humans perform best in is also the one that they can remember the least. So I wonder how many people that are elite performers, comedians, artists, musicians, sports stars, look back on their career and they go, I'm glad that it was videoed dude, because I kind of wasn't really there for it all that much.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that is interesting. But then also you have like guys like, I guess, I don't know if it's like in necessary a sport, but you know, chess, guys like Magnus Carlsen and just like all those top chess players, they could memorize games from, you know, when they were like five and you're like, oh shit. You know, where's that come from?

• 2:45Chris Williamson?

  That's a different kind of sport, maybe.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  It is, it is. I mean, you have to use your brain there.

• 2:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, but I wonder even if in that you go, okay, you know what the movements were, but can you tell me what you were thinking, how you were feeling, what you were wearing? Can you tell me where people were sat? Can you tell me what emotions were coming up? Maybe not. They're just optimized for one very specific thing, which is what are the exact movements on the chessboard?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 3:07Chris Williamson?

  Funny.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is funny. Yeah. Well, all I know is I like to win. That's all I, you know, I mean, the joy comes after the fight, right?

• 3:18Chris Williamson?

  You've got a job to do. You're a professional.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:20Chris Williamson?

  I think I like the idea of people treating their pursuits as a professional, even people that aren't doing it in that way. But, you know, you're a.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  I like the, the journey of understanding like how much the levels there actually is to anything, right? Like, say, construction or something that's their profession, but like there's levels to it. People that could construct like these huge buildings and people are constructing, you know, a little table. But there's also levels to building a table. Some people make a better table than others. Why is that? You know, that's, that's cool in itself. So I find that the fun part of my job is just like, damn, there's so much more. Even when you think like, you know, I'm a world champion, but I know there's just even more levels to it. You know, so I just love that, that part of it.

• 4:10Chris Williamson?

  I didn't know that you started at seven years old and got homeschooled so that you could spend more time boxing.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Around like fifteen, that's when, sixteen I got.

• 4:19Chris Williamson?

  Do you ever resent or regret missing out on a more normal childhood? Your teenage years, teenage experience stuff?

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Hmm, do I regret it? No, but I, I do think it would have helped me. If I went through that, you know, stuff earlier in life, I wouldn't have got into some stupid shit later on. You know what I mean? Cause I would already had experienced a little bit of it, you know? It's kind of like a, it helped me get to where I was at, but then I didn't have experience with uh, with things that came with, you know, money, fame, all those other things.

• 4:53Chris Williamson?

  You wanna make teenage mistakes when you're a teenager, not when you're in your twenties?

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly, hundred percent. That's part of where I'm like, ah, maybe that could help me a little bit, but.

• 5:03Chris Williamson?

  Strange the sacrifices that you've got to make in order to get to where you wanna be.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:07Chris Williamson?

  Like that.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, everything in life, the greatest thing that came uh, in this world came through a sacrifice, right? I mean, I believe in Jesus, so that to me shows that if you want anything in life, it has to require sacrifice in some way. I don't know, you know, for other people, obviously it's different, but for me, it was my childhood, it was um, it was many hours of training as a little kid, running nonstop, you know, having to go to a bunch of tournaments and just, kind of just, my whole life was just all boxing.

• 5:41Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. What was a typical week like for you as a kid?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Uh, just my dad would, you know, have me train uh, the whole week and then fight on the weekend, so that's.

• 5:50Chris Williamson?

  Two hundred and something amateur fights?

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Two hundred and twenty-five amateur fights, yeah, so. There's a lot of uh, road trips, a lot of uh,

• 5:59Speaker 01

  a lot of gym sessions and a lot of road work. Yeah, but to me it was fun, like, I loved it, going to the tournaments and, hanging, excuse me, hanging out with all the kids, uh, you know, to me, that was like the moment I had a little bit of childhood and, you know, fun. Was just those tournaments. Yeah, exactly, the community of the sport, so that was fun. But yeah, everything requires sacrifice, everything.

• 6:26Chris Williamson?

  I think a lot of young guys did some sort of sport. I did, I was dedicated to cricket, which is the, some may, some may say the elevated form of baseball, uh, but yeah, uh, it's kind of British pastime. And that was my entire life from the age of ten until the age of eighteen. I would play sometimes five or six matches a week, plus training, plus, school games, and I'd get pulled out of school to then have to go and play. And then the only reason I went to university is because I thought that I was gonna be able to play full-time when I went there.

• 7:01Chris Williamson?

  That that like dedication teaches you an awful lot, but you do look back and go, I wonder what I missed. But if it's set you up for the rest of life, there's very few guys that I know that have ended up with a really great work ethic in later life that didn't have something that they dedicated themselves to as a kid, even if it was academia.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:22Chris Williamson?

  Some people just dedicate themselves to school. They wanted to become really good at this thing.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  It seems like extremely hard, but I have seen so many people really dedicate themselves to school. And I'm like, dang, how'd you do that?

• 7:32Chris Williamson?

  That wasn't your vibe?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Oh, no. I mean, I was into math for a little bit and, you know, that was probably the only thing I excelled in. But other than that, I was kind of like, mm, not my thing.

• 7:44Chris Williamson?

  Your dad wanted to be boxer, right?

• 7:46Speaker 01

  My dad was a boxer for a little bit, like an amateur fighter. It was my uncle that was kind of more, I guess, you know, I guess, better. He was, he went to the Nationals. He was the only one in my family that went to the Nationals at that time. And he lost, but he said, you know, somebody in our family is going to come back here. And, you know, he always, he always, oh, I guess that's what he told me. He said that, you know, he would always look for when a kid was born, like, all right, this is going to be the one. And then he said, none of the, all the kids came and, you know, he was like, no, no, no. And then he said, when I was born, he was like, all right, that's the one. That's insane.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  I know. I know. It doesn't fucking sound real. But that's, that's what he said. Maybe he's just filling shit in my head so I could think.

• 8:35Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  You know, and.

• 8:35Chris Williamson?

  You were chosen.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  And prepare, like, you know, propel me to be like, yeah, I was always that guy.

• 8:40Chris Williamson?

  On birth.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. But that's what he said.

• 8:42Chris Williamson?

  It's a good story.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:44Chris Williamson?

  So does it, does it ever feel like pressure to have, you know, the weight of a dad's maybe unfulfilled career and then an uncle's partly fulfilled career? All of this riding on your shoulders. Not only that, but all of the other kids that came and went, it's like, it's not you, it's not you, it's not you. It's like the Hunger Games inside of a single family.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I still feel pressure, you know, but I think that's why part, like partly, I dedicated this last fight to my dad for the, like, you know, my first world title. I really wanted just to win that for him. My whole reasoning for boxing just evolved over

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Always, you know, I was in love with the game, but then it kind of evolved to more a spiritual journey of, you know, where I feel I'm being guided to. And however that is, you know, a lot of it is because of boxing. You know what I mean? And I don't know what the reasoning is, but I just like to follow that. So ever since I was little, I felt like little nudges here or there, you know what I mean? And I kind of trusted that and always wanted to understand what that is. And why every time I followed it, good things happen. You know what I mean? Even if I don't get it then. So that's kind of where I'm at of why I box.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  That's like actually the only reason why I box is just because it's always, that's what's in me right now. Maybe it'll take me somewhere else later, but right now it's like this is where I'm at.

• 10:12Chris Williamson?

  There's something pulling you toward it.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So, but you know, I'm happy I won the championship.

• 10:17Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  I'll take it.

• 10:18Chris Williamson?

  Of course.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. So, um, but yeah, I think this was my dad's. I mean, it's my, it's everything for my dad. He's so happy. He's excited. And my uncle's probably, you know, he's super thorough. So it's cool. It really is amazing to see how much joy that brings. You know, for me, I just, I just think, okay, just continue to stay focused, you know? Don't get too high and don't get too low. Just stay stoic and just keep your.

• 10:47Chris Williamson?

  You seem very regulated today.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Regulated?

• 10:50Chris Williamson?

  Regulated.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:51Chris Williamson?

  You know, just in nice bit of peace.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:54Chris Williamson?

  I've seen you with varying levels of energy.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Oh, I've had that many times. Yeah. You don't want to get me started.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  But you know, it's, okay, man, I told you I had to learn a lot.

• 11:06Chris Williamson?

  So what have you learned recently? Been a tumultuous few years for you.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Right. I feel like what I've really learned is your body is literally a temple. And what you put in it is just as important as what you put out. You know what I mean? So, um, just that journey of understanding how my body works and what can propel it to be at its best. Cause usually, you know, when I was younger, man, I could put obviously anything in my body.

• 11:33Chris Williamson?

  It made of rubber and magic.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Weird. Exactly. And I'm just like thinking I'm unstoppable, but God will humble you real quick.

• 11:41Chris Williamson?

  My god or your liver or your brain.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it comes in many ways. So, um, yeah, I just. Just didn't like that certain things were taking me so much like, you know, off course that much and it took a, it took a while for me to be like, all right, you're not Superman. You just gotta, you know, you are Superman when you put the right things in you. Right? But you could go down just as quick.

• 12:08Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, well, everyone's got their kryptonite, right? Superman.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. You know, you put the wrong oil in the car. I don't care if you have a Ferrari, if you, you know, it's not gonna go.

• 12:17Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. You've said, I'm surprised I'm here right now.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:21Chris Williamson?

  In the past.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:22Chris Williamson?

  What, was there a specific moment when you realized that you'd gone too far? Or did it just creep up over time?

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Uh, I think that when, when, when you could no longer, you know, get a hold of yourself and see the decisions you're making that, that aren't good and you can't see that anymore, I think that you probably went a little too far.

• 12:46Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  You know, there's times where I was moving so fast that, you know, it just didn't seem like anything I was doing was wrong, but it was.

• 12:55Chris Williamson?

  What's that mean?

• 12:57Speaker 01

  I just felt like, I just felt like, even though I'm not a prideful person, it was displayed as pride to myself, you know, now looking back like, no, that, that means you were just being prideful. You know what I mean? Like, like it just didn't, it didn't hit me at the time. But, you know, I lost track of, of, of myself and who I really am. And then that's when I knew, I was like, oh shit, this is not, this is not good, you know? And that's why I was surprised, like dang, I'm, I'm still here, you know what I mean? Like.

• 13:30Chris Williamson?

  Dude, you had one of the roughest runs of form, like kid custody problem, mom diagnosed with cancer, divorce, all basically at the exact same time.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:42Chris Williamson?

  How does a person even process all that much at once?

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Uh, I didn't. I just kinda shoved it down with alcohol and.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Just acting out, trying to self-destruct anyway. So I'm like, alright, everything's going bad. Let's sink the whole shit.

• 13:58Chris Williamson?

  Make it worse.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's just make it all worse, you know? And I just, you know, I had just knocked out a man and beat him so bad. While self-destructing, so I was like, alright, I could do whatever.

• 14:11Chris Williamson?

  I can do this.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can do this. And that's where the humbling came. No, you can't, you know? And yeah, that was a very rough stretch and it's something I try not to look back too much. Because it's like, ah, damn.

• 14:25Chris Williamson?

  Not so proud of that.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  It's hard, no, I'm not. But, um, well, I think a crash out was coming sooner or later anyways. You know what I mean? So I'm kind of glad it happened a little earlier.

• 14:39Chris Williamson?

  If, uh, if Haney beat me that night, do you think this spiral would have been worse? Or actually might have just saved you earlier?

• 14:45Speaker 01

  I have no idea.

• 14:46Chris Williamson?

  Isn't that funny to think about?

• 14:47Speaker 01

  I know, it's so weird because I should have lost.

• 14:50Chris Williamson?

  I know.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  There's no way, there's no way that could ever be replicated. And that's when these young boxers were trying to do that. I'm like, no, man, I'm sorry.

• 14:58Chris Williamson?

  It's a high-risk strategy.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  It's not the right one. Don't do it. Um, and to this day, I still don't know how I did it, to be honest, because I would.

• 15:05Chris Williamson?

  What do you remember of that period? Like that, that fight buildup and then, then that day?

• 15:09Speaker 01

  It's so weird because it's like, when you're drinking all the time, the, the timelines become so mashed up. Sometimes I think it's the other training camp I was in, like in Dallas. So it's so weird. But I remember, uh, I remember that I was feared, fueled with so much anger. That's what it was. I was so angry at the world and at people and how they seen me as a fighter. And how they seen me as a person, how even when I wasn't sword on sword crashing out, they still judged me like harshly on everything I do. But other people, there's no judgment. So it's like, dang, I feel like I'm getting targeted with the, you know,

• 15:52Speaker 01

  with the ruling stick. And then I just crashed out and I was like, alright, you guys want to see a piece of shit? I'll show you a real piece of shit. I'll drink, I'll smoke and I'll, and I'll, you know, talk so much shit.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  And I was just so angry. I was angry at the boxing community because they never gave me my credit. You know, I've been fighting since I was seven and I was looked at as some just bum that's gonna just get his ass whipped by this guy. Even though I beat him three times in the amateurs, it's not like, you know, and I was a fifteen time national champ. So I just felt really disrespected by people and just life. And I was like, alright, I'm gonna give them what they want. They want a bad dude, I'll give you a bad dude. And like I said, I let them change me for a time. I let them break me and become a person that I'm not. And I was just fueled with anger and I wanted to hurt him bad. That's all I was thinking in my head. Like when I came with the shirt murder on my mind, I was dead serious. I wanted to murder that man in the ring.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  But he also wanted to murder me. He said it. He said it. He actually was the first one to say it. He was like, uh, he's like, we're gonna, we're gonna, this is the death of Ryan Garcia. And then I, I just snapped. When he said that, I was like, oh, you wanna go death? Alright, let's go. So, yeah, that, I just remember that time as I was fueled with anger. And nothing was gonna stop me. I didn't care. I got in fights with my trainer, my dad, everybody. I was just angry. Everyone's getting it. And sparring, like, they were screaming and I was like, I don't care, let's keep going. Like, I was just fueled with anger at that moment and, uh, anger and emotion. I would cry a lot too. I was crying just so mad about what people were calling me crazy and things like that, you know?

• 17:36Speaker 01

  And then,

• 17:38Speaker 01

  you know, a, a, a lot of the stuff I was talking about, okay, yes, a little bit was played into conspiracy and all that, but when it came to like the children and, you know, children sex trafficking, I was dead serious about that. Like, that was been on my mind since I seen, uh, I mean, I've always known about this kind of stuff. It's kind of always floated around, but then when it's like in your face and, and now like, now that everybody sees it, it's kind of different, but back then it's like,

• 18:05Speaker 01

  If it's a billion dollar industry, like where's all the money coming from? You know what I mean? And it was kind of that thing that I felt like there wasn't enough said. And that there's so many other movements that people get behind. But like kids, like we can't all come together and be like, hey, should probably look into this. It really did upset me and I was already angry, so. All that together, just kind of one big, you know, boom. And then, yeah. But I don't regret that part. You know, I brought awareness to it, even though it came out of something ugly in my, you know, how I, you know, displayed it, but a lot of people started looking into it and they're, oh shit, this is actually kind of true.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  And now that I teamed up with like Tim Tebow and his foundation and we're actually making real steps. I'm happy. When were you first exposed to that stuff? And uh, it's weird, man. So again, might not be believable, but I was like in 2021, after I defeated Luke Campbell, I had a weird vision. I don't know how, but like I seen like, it was like some image playing in my mind. And I just kind of followed it. I don't know why. But it was like a beast or some animal coming out of a sea. And then I seen like a, pretty much a bridge and in my brain, I was like, oh, San Francisco. And then like it just showed like people in the woods.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  And then it showed people doing weird things and conjuring up weird things and doing weird things to like. Were you dreaming or were you awake? No, I was awake. I swear, it was so weird. Just the image playing in my brain. And I looked into like, is there things in the woods in San Francisco? And it's like Bohemian Grove and I was like, oh shit. Like that was a weird thing to see. And then I look it up and there's actually people that come into the woods. That's like a strange coincidence. So I looked into it. And yeah, then that's when you see Alex Jones talking about it and all these conspiracy things, but then actually it was real. They do meet up in the woods and they sacrifice,

• 20:15Speaker 01

  I mean, it's fake, right? It's effigy, but sacrifice something to an owl or whatever. So part of it is a little freaky that these politicians and people do meet in the woods.

• 20:26Chris Williamson?

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• 21:53Chris Williamson?

  Some of the different stories I've heard, I don't know whether it was Alex Jones's retelling of it, or maybe somebody else's I've listened to. Sometimes I see stuff online and I hear stories, conspiracism or bad behavior, nasty behavior, immoral behavior. Okay, that's, that's someone doing something wrong. And then there's other stories that I hear and it sounds.

• 22:22Chris Williamson?

  I can't think of a better word, like cursed, like, like.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Almost forbidden?

• 22:28Chris Williamson?

  Yes, yes, yes. You go, okay, that's something else. And the Bohemian Grub story,

• 22:37Chris Williamson?

  whether, how much of it's true or not, is one of those ones where I've just wanted to lean back a little bit further when I'm listening to it. I think, I really don't like this. I really, really, really don't like this. I'm not too sure why.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  I feel that, dude. At times you're just like, oof.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  And it's like, is it all just a distraction? Like, do we even need to be paying attention to this? You know what I mean? How much is it even relevant to, to, like, can we make a difference if, even if they are doing something crazy wrong? You know?

• 23:09Chris Williamson?

  Well, uh.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  That's how I think of it sometimes.

• 23:12Chris Williamson?

  Certainly what seems to be happening at the moment, if you were to think about how little disclosure there was about this sort of stuff fifteen to twenty years ago, compared with now, and let's say, let's say that there is some nasty stuff going on behind the scenes with people that are in power.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:29Chris Williamson?

  For the last two hundred years, up until twenty years ago, you had a pretty clean run. Deny, control the media, uh, do it in different sorts of ways, have people killed off, or, or pay people off, or do whatever.

• 23:45Chris Williamson?

  That's not as easy to do because everyone's got democratized access to just, hey, I saw this thing and this is really fucking weird and here's some evidence and everybody else can go, that is fucking weird. That is some evidence. And it's, if I was a person in power that was doing loads of gnarly shit for the last fifty years, I'd be like, okay, we need to change our tactics. This can't, we can't do this anymore because things are going to appear, people are going to be able to do research and tie little bits of red string together and realize, oh, this thing's connected to this.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  No, for sure. And, uh, you see the.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  You see how now there's so much access with phones and so much access to like, anybody could make a video about anything.

• 24:30Chris Williamson?

  Recording devices.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  It's just so crazy now. Yeah. And I think that, I mean, look at the, you, you hear talks now. They wanna disclose all the UFO, uh, knowledge. It's like, a lot of knowledge is like, all right, you guys can have it now. Like, but it's kind of strange.

• 24:46Chris Williamson?

  We can't, we can't keep it.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  We can't keep it together. Yeah.

• 24:49Chris Williamson?

  Well, I mean, dude, look at the, uh, look at the, the Trump assassination, assassination attempt three.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Number three.

• 24:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, exactly. For three Pete.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  And then everybody dying too, all the scientists, like,

• 25:00Chris Williamson?

  That's, that's.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Is that real?

• 25:01Chris Williamson?

  Uh, there's definitely NASA scientists that are dying. I don't know what they're working on. I mean, give it a week and a half. I'm sure Rogan's gonna have someone on that'll explain it all. So I'll just wait, I'll wait for the, I'll wait for the Rogan episode to come out. But I was thinking about the videos that came out of the correspondence in a way, Trump's getting rushed off stage and stuff. Every single different angle of that that you need, someone's got to fuck. I saw this, I don't know that you've seen these two. So there's one where everybody's being rushed out of the room. And there's some old boy, looks like he's maybe in his seventies or eighties, just sat in the corner, just finishing his food, doesn't give a single fuck. And then there's another one of some lady, uh, nicely dressed lady. And everyone's being rushed out of the room and she gets up to sort of go away from her table. And before she leaves, she goes, leans back over and grabs a bottle of champagne. She's like, I must take the champagne with me before I leave.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  I was like, he's like.

• 25:47Chris Williamson?

  Just to have that composition, homeboy's finishing his chowder and she's, I, I'll, I'll take the Veuve Clicquot with me before I leave. That's gonna be important for me later on. So like, fair enough, man. But we've got every single angle. We've got the angles of the people still eating their food. We've got this. So if you're trying to do some secret shit, like eventually somebody's gonna uncover. I mean, do you see the guy that snuck onto Epstein's island recently?

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Oh, that was insane.

• 26:08Chris Williamson?

  The vlog?

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:09Chris Williamson?

  You got on a, a jet ski, got on there, there was a drone above. Unreal.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  That was crazy. I did see that. That, that's insane. And it's insane that they release it and then take it back.

• 26:20Chris Williamson?

  Yep. Yeah.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  That's insane too.

• 26:22Chris Williamson?

  You said, um, you said for a good while that you were angry?

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:25Chris Williamson?

  Does anger help you as a boxer?

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Not necessarily, but you do need an edge. You need some type of grit. And I don't know if that could come through anger or just motivation, but you need something that is fueling you. But I wouldn't say like rage is not good. Maybe a little anger can be good.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  But rage blinds you and then you make mistakes and just, you know, are not focused, but you need some type of like, all right, motherfucker.

• 27:02Chris Williamson?

  Sharpness.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, a little, a little bit of like, yeah, a tad bit anger, but more of aggression. That's the word I'm looking at. You need aggression a little bit, yeah.

• 27:11Chris Williamson?

  What happens if you turn anger into aggression, sorry, if you turn aggression into anger and into rage? What do you lose? Cause for most people who don't fight or fight at the level that you do, they might look from the outside and see two people that are trying to hurt each other. And think, well, hurt is fueled by rage and anger and aggression.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:31Chris Williamson?

  But it seems like you must lose something as you move down that line towards sort of greater levels of extreme, extreme aggression.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:40Chris Williamson?

  So what do you lose?

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Well, what you lose is that, that consciousness of a punch might come back. You know what I mean? Like when you're focused and a little bit angry, you could still, you know, you could still read a punch. You could still, you know, counter react when you get angry and like that it's overtaking you. Then you've lose sight of what could come back to you. It's like when you get too raged up and you wanna push somebody, you didn't see that, that, you know, there's a car about to pass by. You just pushed them into a car. You wouldn't necessarily wanted to kill them, but your anger rage pushed you and you didn't even see the car coming. So it's kind of like that.

• 28:17Chris Williamson?

  Narrowes everything down?

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:19Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, too much, you know? And then now you don't see what's coming at you on the other side, you know, say, oh, I'm mad, boom.

• 28:27Chris Williamson?

  It's interesting because you see, I don't know, the, do you know Nicky Rod? Do you know who he is? Nicky Rodriguez is a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guy. I went to CJI, the Craig Jones Invitational, a year and a half ago. We sponsored it with Neutonic. And it was a single, two weight categories. And the guys just worked up on a bracket style event all the way up to the final. And in between each round, most of the fighters were going back to a coach. They're talking tactics, they're getting hydration, they're doing whatever. Nicky just decided to sit in full lotus, like with his hands like this, like a samurai with his eyes closed. And then they'd ring the bell and he'd stand back up and go again. So you've kind of got this, it was kind of a bit of a lock, but it was fucking sick.

• 29:11Chris Williamson?

  It looked sick to see. Nicky Rod's a beast, but.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Did he win?

• 29:14Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, and he won a million dollars in one day. It's pretty, oh, in one weekend, sorry.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  That's nice.

• 29:21Chris Williamson?

  To see that on one side, you think this is the, almost like that samurai energy, very, very, very calm. But it seems like you're saying that there is edge, an edge comes with aggression that's still important. And to completely let go of that, you're actually losing something there too. That there's a middle ground that's good for you to sit in.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think just like, if you have, you know, a tad bit of that, it just gives you, it keeps you, it keeps you, I guess, in the fight, like into it. You know, I say like, if you kind of get too, you know, too calm and too like, too peaceful, then, then it's just, you lost that bit of you that, you know, I'm a killer, I have a killer instinct, so it's kind of, you lose the killer instinct in you.

• 30:10Chris Williamson?

  You do want to hurt this person.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, of course. You're in a fight.

• 30:14Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  And he's hitting you.

• 30:16Chris Williamson?

  It would be nice to try and hurt him.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it would be nice. And, yeah, I just, I know, for me, it helps a little bit.

• 30:23Chris Williamson?

  What's happening with Conor Ben? Talk to me.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that's, that, that is being worked on, you know, me and my team. We're, we're trying to, you know, finalize it and make it happen, stuff like that I really want. But there's also other options, you know, so if it doesn't get done, you know, we're also looking at Rolie Romero and other, you know, opponents that we can fight. But that fight I would love to make happen. I, I want that one bad. He's been. A little too long. Uh, he actually came in, confronted me at an event while I was with my wife and it was just crazy.

• 30:59Chris Williamson?

  Recently?

• 31:01Speaker 01

  About a year and a half ago and I still remember that. It's like, bro, we're all in suits. Calm down. What are you doing? Like be professional, buddy. This is like, it reminded me of the movie Sao Paul, you know, when uh, he gets confronted and then she ends up getting shot. Like, bro, you need to chill. Uh, but yeah, I, I, I would love to make that happen. But it's not done yet.

• 31:21Chris Williamson?

  What'd you make of him as a fighter?

• 31:23Speaker 01

  I think he's a good fighter. Uh, he's too aggressive.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  A little too aggressive.

• 31:28Chris Williamson?

  How so?

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Uh, he's a little reckless in the ring. Um, but I do think that he has a lot of tenacity and he makes for a good fight, an entertaining fight every time he steps in the ring. But uh, yeah, I will show him that uh, there's definitely levels to this and uh, yeah.

• 31:47Chris Williamson?

  Is he 1.5?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  I mean, he's number, he's number one. Uh, so he's my mandatory.

• 31:50Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  So uh,

• 31:53Chris Williamson?

  There's so many fucking politics and so much red tape in boxing that the number one contender and the number one title holder somehow can't make a fight work.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:01Chris Williamson?

  Easily.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's what, that's how it goes, man.

• 32:05Chris Williamson?

  Dude, boxing's so fucking complex.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  So complex, yeah. It is a little.

• 32:08Chris Williamson?

  Does the, does the politics get frustrating? It's get frustrating for me as a fan.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, I mean.

• 32:14Chris Williamson?

  Like this guy should fight that guy because it's the coolest fight.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Number one and the world champ, we should do it, you know? I'm, like I said, I'm all up for it. It's just, there's some things that need to be figured out, but I'm all for it. I, I'm sure he's all for it. And uh, I'm sure it's gonna happen. I'm pretty positive.

• 32:32Chris Williamson?

  What'd you make of the Zuffa deal?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Uh, that's uh, it's a little weird.

• 32:38Chris Williamson?

  How so?

• 32:39Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know exactly what kind of changes they're trying to make to the Ali act to benefit Zuffa or I don't know what they're trying to do. And I'm not saying I'm against Zuffa at all. I just want to give it time before I even like. Want to acknowledge it too much. Cause I don't know if it's gonna make us not get paid as much. I don't know if it's gonna make the sport better. So I kinda wanted to sit back and watch what kind of unfolds there.

• 33:06Chris Williamson?

  It is a funny sport from the outside to look at boxing. And I think what's particularly interesting is to see it when compared with other organizations, especially the UFC, but also stuff like One Championship, like even BKFC.

• 33:20Chris Williamson?

  There seems to be so much. I'll tell you a story. So I did a couple of degrees in the UK and I went to what's called a Russell Group University, which is kind of like Ivy League. Similar to the equivalent of an Ivy League in the US. So these are very long established, old universities. And each time that I graduated, there's graduation ceremony and everyone's parents come and you wear your silly robes and stuff. And you get your little certificate. I remember being there and watching this parade come in and it was five, 10, 15 people who were all the different.

• 33:59Chris Williamson?

  The dean of the university and the vice chancellor, and one of them had a mace, like a medieval weapon. Like a symbolic version of a medieval, but an actual medieval weapon. They all had to doth their caps to different people in different orders. I remember looking at it and going. This is what happens when you have a country that's not been invaded for a thousand years. Right? Like when you have properly invaded, like it's just one culture that's been able to accumulate loads and loads of weird traditions. And then the second time, which was a masters, was even more weird. There was more people, weirder outfits, more stuff going on. Like a academic Bohemian Grove.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. Some type of rituals.

• 34:43Chris Williamson?

  When I look at boxing and the world of boxing, I do see some of that. It's such an established sport that there are, I mean, the first five minutes of any press conference or the start of any fight is this weird land acknowledgement. We must say thank you to the person from this thing and this thing and that other thing and this person's father. And I've got a fucking athlete's foot and I could do with a back rub and a ba ba ba ba ba. You know, it's a ga ga ga ga ga. And now we can start to talk. And then you look at something which is newer, which doesn't have quite so much of the baggage that's come along with it. And you look at something like a One Championship or you look at a UFC and you think, huh. From an audience standpoint. This is a slicker experience. It's quicker, right?

• 35:24Chris Williamson?

  You get from the thing that people don't want, which is the bullshit and the credits.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:30Chris Williamson?

  To the movie starting. I just want the movie to start.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 35:33Chris Williamson?

  And I kind of feel the same thing when I hear about we couldn't make the fight work. Like, how many, I guess Mayweather-Pacquiao, we're getting that to be run back. So that's kind of hilarious, but that almost didn't happen. That was supposed to happen five, 10 times. Should have happened when they were younger. Should have happened when they were in their prime. Should have happened, should have happened. Couldn't make it work, couldn't make it work, couldn't make it work. You think, how, like, why? Why, why can't there be a way? But it's because there's all of these different territories, basically different countries, inside of a single sport, who are all competing for dominance. And one person's got this and one person's got another.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  It's the Wild, Wild West.

• 36:09Chris Williamson?

  You think?

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. Everybody's, like, yes, there's like, like you said, it's very established and has a rich history and, you know, the major players are the major players. But everyone's pretty much, it's free for all. Everybody's out for themselves. And it's like, hopefully the business makes sense that two entities just come together. All right, let's do it.

• 36:31Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  So, you know, a bit of it is, is kind of fun because like, everybody gets a chance to make something huge happen. But, you know, the sad part is that a lot of the fights don't happen because a lot of these promoters become greedy and they want to get more and, you know.

• 36:52Chris Williamson?

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• 37:34Chris Williamson?

  It's clinical validation, which is unbelievably rare in the supplement world. The older I get, the more I realize that the small stuff compounds. And this is one of the smallest things I do that makes a massive difference. If you're still on the fence, they've got a 90 day money back guarantee in the US. So you can buy it and try it for three months. And if you do not like it, they'll just give you your money back. Right now, you can get a free AG1 welcome kit that includes a bottle of D3K2, AG1 flavor sampler and that 90 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below. Heading to drinkag1.com/modernwisdom. That's drinkag1.com/modernwisdom. What's the main reason that fights don't happen? Is it money disagreements?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  I would say splits, money. And some of these fighters overvalue themselves sometimes. Or they act like they really want to fight, but they really don't. So they hide behind the promoter and say, oh.

• 38:31Chris Williamson?

  We couldn't make the deal work when secretly I just didn't want to step in the ring.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  I just didn't even want to step in the ring. So a lot of it's that. I do think that boxing could become a little bit more slicker and sleek. Like you said, with the UFC, like we could cut out a lot of the bullshit. You know, there's new ways to promote a fight than the standard.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, but.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  I feel like boxing, like a lot of people were trying to say it was dead and stuff. But, I mean, we've been doing just fine. You know what I mean? Financially, well, I saw, I mean, it must be making some type of money. Cause a lot of these boxers are getting paid pretty well. But shoot, I'm all up for change, but as long as it makes sense. As long as it's like, all right, we're evolving in the right direction and not like. I don't want it to become the UFC. That's what I'm saying. Like Zuffa's cool, but like it looks too much like the UFC. And I'm like, ah, not my vibe. And then you can't wear your own shorts. Like, bro, you're

• 39:38Chris Williamson?

  Sponsored money is gonna go away.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you you won't get that out of me yet. You know, you don't have to. I don't know what you would have to pay me, but I like the style of boxing. I like, you know, shorts, I like the walkouts. I like the the grand entrances that you could do. You know, UFC is just the guy walking down like. I like the whole spectacle. I like the entertainment part of it. You know, it's fun. And if they take that away, I'm just gonna be honest.

• 40:05Chris Williamson?

  There's a difference between

• 40:09Chris Williamson?

  getting rid of the bullshit, but keeping the heritage.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:13Chris Williamson?

  And respecting the tradition, right? And you don't need to get rid of everything.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 40:17Chris Williamson?

  But we can all say.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  There could be some fat cutoff.

• 40:20Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  But don't don't lose what makes boxing boxing.

• 40:24Chris Williamson?

  What is the Ali Act? What are the changes? I haven't I I don't know this.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  I I don't know exactly what changes, but I know that. I don't know if it's Dana White or I know Nick Khan spoke at the Congress and Oscar did. Oscar on the side of not changing anything. And then Nick was trying to change things. That's kind of what I got out of it. And then um something about how um it helps everything be transparent. I know the Ali Act, like, they have to show the numbers and.

• 40:57Chris Williamson?

  It's a financial decision.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then I guess.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  I don't know if they're trying to change it where we don't get to be disclosed the numbers. I can't I don't want to speak for it because I don't really necessarily know.

• 41:10Chris Williamson?

  Interesting.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  But that was Oscar's point. Oscar's point was this was made to protect the fighters and make sure that everything's just transparent. But who knows?

• 41:20Chris Williamson?

  Talking of the money thing, a couple of years ago, you said that Jake Paul's not a real boxer.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:25Chris Williamson?

  Has that changed after his Joshua fight?

• 41:28Speaker 01

  No, he's definitely a real boxer for sure. Um, he has balls, man. I mean, it's the fact that he fought Anthony Joshua is pretty fucking insane.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Knowing that he's not even a heavyweight, so. Now, he's earned he has definitely earned respect.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  But I think I did humble him just a little bit, like.

• 41:51Chris Williamson?

  When you jaw shattered, it'll typically humble somebody.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, a broken jaw would probably be like, alright, maybe I should shut my mouth because I can't even move it.

• 42:00Chris Williamson?

  But dude, I mean, the people who saw that happen and also saw his response, like, say what you want, dude, that was a fucking elite response to having your jaw cracked by a guy who's.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  What did he say?

• 42:12Chris Williamson?

  When he was on the ground.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Oh, he's like.

• 42:14Chris Williamson?

  It was like, whoa, that was hard.

• 42:18Chris Williamson?

  I fucking bet it was, dude.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  That is fucking funny. Nah, Jake's always been that type of dude, man. He doesn't miss a moment, for sure.

• 42:25Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you remember.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  He's hyper aware of that, that too.

• 42:27Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, well, it's kind of like the first assassination attempt for Trump. Where immediately he's like, I mean, I have just been shot a little bit, but this is a great opportunity. The same as Jake, it's like, I think I might have broken my jaw and I'm definitely knocked down, but this is a great opportunity.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Right, right. This is probably, you know, a clip farm moment.

• 42:46Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that awareness is, but I, I mean, he's got that deal now with Netflix, so money.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  With his own promotion.

• 42:54Chris Williamson?

  Yes.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  That's pretty sick.

• 42:55Chris Williamson?

  As somebody who's not a boxer.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:57Chris Williamson?

  Right, to come in and do it.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  No, you gotta give credit, you know, at the time, obviously, people and myself included were just, I was just annoyed how he would always talk shit about me, so I found my ways to talk shit, you know. But we've always been cool here and there, and I think now, I think we're on a better page now.

• 43:16Chris Williamson?

  It's interesting, right, because so many people, especially with boxing, I'm not sure whether, what would be an example of a sport that people could do when they could start as an adult? Maybe something like distance running, endurance racing, triathlons.

• 43:30Chris Williamson?

  Most skill-based sport, you're not gonna start tennis at twenty and become a legitimate professional tennis player, that'd be very hard. I think Deontay Wilder started boxing relatively late.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's one of the few, Bernard Hopkins, Sergio Martinez, those are the ones that come to the top of my.

• 43:46Chris Williamson?

  Realistically, though, it's a sport that you start as a baby kid. For me, when they started at three. Yeah, Tiger Woods with golf at two.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Two, yeah.

• 43:56Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  And he actually was hitting the ball.

• 43:57Chris Williamson?

  Good, it's better than me.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was about to say, yeah, combined.

• 44:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Chris Williamson?

  And I think that there's a.

• 44:06Chris Williamson?

  There's a kind of appropriate gatekeeping that happens where it's like you don't get to speedrun this with clout, that this is a sport that you have to earn your stripes in. It's to do with being hurt and that means that, and everybody knows that there's ways to piece fights together with fuckery and red tape and weight classes and experience that allow you to have a wonderful record without actually having done anything that's that impressive.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 44:31Chris Williamson?

  All of that together allows you to create the illusion of being good at it without not. I don't know whether the same thing is true for winning a triathlon. That what, you're gonna get the entire field of other people to not be that good. Even that, your pace is compared with somebody else's.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:46Chris Williamson?

  As opposed to in boxing, it's just, are you better than that guy? And now are you better than the next guy? And are you better than the guy after that?

• 44:51Speaker 01

  And the crazy thing is a lot of the casual people can't tell the difference. They can't, they don't know if Jake Paul is not a world champion or is he? Or is he world champion? They can't, they could only see him beating Anderson Silva, who's not a fighter, like he's not a boxer, but he's a UFC champ. So all they see is Jake Paul is beating these.

• 45:13Chris Williamson?

  Fighters.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Fighters that are names, you know what I mean? He beaten Adidas, so it's like, it was a little frustrating because Jake was good at writing that and making it seem like he was like Muhammad Ali and like with Troy like that. But like you said, boxing is one of those things that like you have to be in the game for a long time and that sacrifice is like only boxers truly know, like fuck. We had, you have to go through a lot to even get to that moment.

• 45:38Chris Williamson?

  There's also a level of skill, I think, that you access from doing it for so long. I mean, you were saying before that you're doing a couple of hours of pad work a week and the rest of it's just, I want to feel good.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:51Chris Williamson?

  Because those rhythm grooves, those movement patterns, you know, you could get like Alzheimer's, dementia, everything, you could get set on fire and the thing that would be left in your brain would be how to dodge a, yeah, exactly. You'd still be, that would be the last thing that would go, right?

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:07Chris Williamson?

  Um, just because it's been done for so long.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:09Chris Williamson?

  You know, more than pretty much anything else. And the question I always had in my mind with Jake was how much can someone? Speed run, learning skills that usually the time that you need, just like the literal like eras of duration that you need.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:27Chris Williamson?

  Is longer.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the thing is, you know, people, I don't know, because they didn't care that he lost to Tommy Fury. And Tommy Fury is not even good, you know what I mean? I'm saying, no, sorry for taking a shot, but like, he's not like, high level at all. So people ignored the fact, so I don't think, you know, he was speed running the, the fact that he was getting these huge events. That were like, can he pay the number, you know, that people don't even dream of? And they, you know, work your whole life, so I think that upset a lot of people. I think that's where it was.

• 47:01Chris Williamson?

  Well, people want to sell tickets, right? We talk about pay-per-view, gate numbers, rah rah rah. There's two ways to get there. One of them is to be really, really good. So good that people want to watch you. And the other is to just have another way to make people want to watch you. It's like, what's that thing like, love me or hate me, you're gonna buy it?

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah, and I watched all Jake Paul's fights, I ain't gonna lie, you know what I mean?

• 47:21Chris Williamson?

  How many people have come to boxing because of that?

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, you know, we don't know, but we do know that people like to watch him. You know, and that's just the facts of it. And, you know, if it was making boxing, you know, bigger in a way, I'm all for it. I love boxing, so if good came from it, I'm all for it.

• 47:39Chris Williamson?

  What'd you make of the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight?

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Oh, it's ridiculous, it's truly ridiculous.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  I'd be, I don't really want to see that, you know, they're, the first fight was kind of boring. The second fight should be even more boring. You know, they're not even close to their prime.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  It's kind of sad, like, why do they feel like they need to do that? Like, are they broke? You know, there would only be like, a couple of reasons why they would want to do that.

• 48:09Chris Williamson?

  Didn't Pacquiao just buy Mayweather's gym? And take a photo outside of the sign?

• 48:14Speaker 01

  I don't know if that was, I think he bought his franchise.

• 48:17Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  You know, but.

• 48:20Chris Williamson?

  And Pacquiao's essentially royalty.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, Pacquiao, I mean.

• 48:24Chris Williamson?

  So I just don't get the sense that he's broke, but.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  I don't think Pacquiao's broke, I don't think he can go broke, because people love him in Philippines. Like, they'll always take care of him.

• 48:32Chris Williamson?

  Correct, he's essentially the king.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Mayweather, I've heard things, but I don't know if he's.

• 48:39Chris Williamson?

  Dude, I've watched a couple of YouTube videos that break down the burn rate that Mayweather's got.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  I just, I mean, it's really probably his security. I mean, to have, because I had, I used to have 24 security for like three months and I seen the check. I'm like, okay, no, absolutely not.

• 48:55Chris Williamson?

  How much is three months of 24 seven security for somebody like you?

• 48:59Speaker 01

  I mean, in the six figures.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Because it's 24 seven. And I was like, bro, this is ridiculous. And I, because I, I, I needed security. I forgot why. Some shit was just going down and I was like, all right, I'll pay for it. But then I'm like, I look after the three months. I'm like, no.

• 49:17Chris Williamson?

  I look after myself, dude.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  And I'm like, yeah, I'll just never use security. Like, I'm cool.

• 49:21Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Like if people want to hurt me, I, I guess why? I don't know why they would. I don't wear jewelry. I don't fucking walk around crazy.

• 49:28Chris Williamson?

  Young LA Tom.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, they want to run up on me. I'm like, bro, you're hitting a little sweetheart. I don't want to know, bro. You can take my shoes. But, um, yeah, so, yeah, that's, that could be a reasoning. I mean, he's taking private plane. I know those cost a lot.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  But then again, like he always talked about investments. So who knows? I, I really don't know if he's.

• 49:53Chris Williamson?

  I think in terms of athletes that have generated money, I think that Mayweather must be up there.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 50:00Chris Williamson?

  I, I don't know who.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  They told, they said that he made like maybe a billion in his career.

• 50:05Chris Williamson?

  I don't know whether that's gone to him or whether that's money generated across the board, but whatever it is, it's lots, right? The number is lots. And I suppose, yeah, you're right. There's, the worst position to be in is to be somebody who has all of the challenges of fame, but not the money to be able to deal with it. So imagine if you needed security, but whatever it was that you were doing that got you loads of attention, didn't really pay that well. You'd be like, oh, fuck. Like I, I really could do with being protected from my fame, but my fame didn't make me any money. So I can't pay for the protection. That would really suck.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  That would.

• 50:37Chris Williamson?

  But the next thing is like, well.

• 50:40Chris Williamson?

  Maybe it's just you just get this lifestyle inflation. You I got assistant, two assistants, three assistants. I got a house, I got a holiday home, Aspen jet, second jet, car, car fleet, car manager, wealth manager, where's the fucking money going? Before you know it, you're like, Jesus Christ, this is so big and unwieldy. And how do you think about that? How do you think about avoiding getting the the financial thing too messy? The team growing too much, people who don't have your best interests at heart? Is aided by the fact it's a family matter?

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Hmm, I got lucky because I had to learn that lesson early. You know what I mean? I got paid a lot of money when I was like 20. I started getting paid, I already made like my first million at like 19 and 20. So I learned quick how fast money can go. And you're just like, wow, I had a mil. No, I don't.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  I was like.

• 51:35Chris Williamson?

  I swear I had a million.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  They definitely said that in my account, but now it's gone. Um, yeah, you just realize taxes is a real thing. And you're like, ah, God, like, I can't really be buying all that. You know what I mean? I was like, I bought every car I wanted. And then I realized this is stupid. And then then I went through a little gambling type of thing I like to do. And then I was like, this is even more stupid than the car thing.

• 52:01Chris Williamson?

  It's all thing was stupid.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  And then you kind of just realize like all of it's pretty dumb. Yeah, yeah, this is a waste of money and nobody really even cares. And and it's just like, it's just like, oh, just like stupid. And then the day it's like all materially materialistic things that you don't really get anything out of it. I mean, unless you're trying to impress a girl or whatever, that's maybe it. And most girls like.

• 52:26Chris Williamson?

  The ones that are impressed by that stuff are probably.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Are you probably not the ones that you want to be be around? But, yeah, I kind of learned all that quick. And then, uh, and then I just have a good, good, good squad, good, good team around me that cares. And they don't want me to go broke and I don't want to go broke one day. It's too many stories like that. Mike Tyson ran through a hundred mil and and he ran it back in the 90s. So fuck.

• 52:51Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, what's that worth today?

• 52:52Speaker 01

  It's probably.

• 52:53Chris Williamson?

  Two hundred fifty, something like that.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 52:55Chris Williamson?

  Serious money.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I don't want to end up like that. So I just kind of. I I I just know that I have to be focused and keep my head straight and uh and just try my best to to not make any big financial mistakes anymore.

• 53:13Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, again, you know, in some ways, I suppose, learning that lesson, going from lots to not so much.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:22Chris Williamson?

  On a million, that's a good lesson to learn. We go, ow, I I'm not broke, but I'm like back to basically baseline.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:29Chris Williamson?

  After I had a lot, that's a good lesson to learn on a million.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:32Chris Williamson?

  It's a worse lesson to learn on a hundred million.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 53:35Chris Williamson?

  So the same way as you said, you know, there were some lessons that I missed in my teenage years that I had to learn in my twenties. Well, there's some lessons people learn in their forties that you managed to learn in your twenties.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  That's why, that's why I feel blessed. I'm like, dude, I learned a lot of all this shit like pretty early. Like, everything I wanted in life came pretty quick. Like, I wanted to be a superstar fighter and it became quick. And I wanted this and it came quick, but then you're like, oh shit, like, I'm actually happy it came quick because if it didn't, then like I said, you would learn it thirty, thirty-five years old, forty, and you're just like.

• 54:07Chris Williamson?

  With more money, with bigger problems.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  With less opportunity to make more too.

• 54:11Chris Williamson?

  Correct. You can't fix it in the same way.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  You can't fix it. So I truly am blessed, but you know, you you could always make a mistake. You know what I mean? You could always go back down on that road, you know? Your vices could take you there, your ego, your pride. Well, I got this much money now. I could really fuck off.

• 54:30Chris Williamson?

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• 55:14Chris Williamson?

  Right now, get up to 15% off your first online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to athleticbrewing.com/ModernWisdom and using the code MODERNWISDOM at checkout. That's athleticbrewing.com/ModernWisdom and MODERNWISDOM at checkout. Near beer, terms and conditions apply. Athletic Brewing Company, fit for all times. I'm friends with a couple of guys at the moment who are really trying to get their lives together, but have a very high level of exposure. And a couple of them are, in the same way that you had your 24/7 security, they basically have 24/7 lifestyle watches to ensure that they don't go off the rails.

• 55:54Chris Williamson?

  Imagine like a sponsor, kind of, but they're also a coach, assistant, driver, like just, hey, we need to make sure that you don't fuck up, that that's how tight the set of train tracks are that they're on. It's a, I mean, it's not bad. You guys do it for a training camp, right? Yeah, yeah. We're gonna bring everybody in. The whole team there. It's an intense thing. There's no moment, unless you want to be alone, that you are alone. There's always someone to keep, you know, I did a tour around Australia, New Zealand and Bali doing a live show. And I realized that, I was trying to think about people that spend time on the road, the ones that are the happiest and have the best mental health and the ones that are the unhappiest. And I think that you have bands who have objectively a pretty shitty lifestyle,

• 56:39Chris Williamson?

  tour bus, sleeping in a tiny bunk, even a really, really good band. If you're on a proper tour, you're going from Dallas to San Antonio to Houston, back to back to back with shows, you're in a bus, dude. And there's only so nice that a bus can be. And if it's a big band, you're in a bus sleeping on top of each other, like even good big bands. So, but they seem to be pretty happy. And then you think next step down might be comedians. And I think that comedians have a little bit more room. They don't need as much crew with them. But the problem is because you don't have as many crew people with you, you're on your own more. Maybe you got a warm up, maybe you got a tour manager, but you know.

• 57:15Chris Williamson?

  The mid-level, good quality comedians, most of the ones that I know that are doing gigs around the US. They're like, I got a flight of my own and, you know, maybe I'll fly in business, maybe not, I get probably in business or whatever. But like, I'm not flying private and I'm on my own and I get there and I do my gig and I go back to my hotel. And maybe my warm-up's there and we can hang. And then the worst one, DJs. The reason that the worst one is to be a DJ, I used to run nightclubs for ages. DJs have the worst lifestyle, I think, one of the worst lifestyles, because they are always on their own. Unless they take a tour manager, because you don't get to, when you get booked at a nightclub, you don't get to say, I'm bringing my warm-up with me. You don't have a sound guy, you don't have a lighting director, you don't need anyone, right? A band needs the roadies and the guitar tech and the drum tech and the lighting director and the, all of this stuff.

• 58:01Chris Williamson?

  And the DJ just has two USB sticks and it's

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, true.

• 58:04Chris Williamson?

  Later at night, loads of drugs around, loads of alcohol around. And there's always an after-party and you can fit these gigs together back to back to back to back to back. Is that right? Okay, so I'm gonna go and do this tour around Australia, New Zealand, Bali. I did North America last year and then Ukraine, Ireland later this year. I was like, I don't need really anyone, I probably need one tour manager to make sure the venue's okay. But 10 people came because I'm like, I want to do what the bands do because they seem to have the best mental health. They seem to enjoy it the most, they're sharing experiences, it goes well, they celebrate, it goes badly, they can miseric hard. Exactly, and it's the same as being in a camp.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I understand. I have my whole squad pretty much live with me. And yeah, honestly, that right there, it just keeps things, you know.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  It just makes things bearable.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  I mean, there's no other way to put it, you're with your boys, at least you can talk to them about things or anything. Hey guys, let's play some video, it could be anything, honestly. Being by yourself just sucks. You know, a lot of people say, oh, you can't be by yourself, they always tell me that. And I'm like, I don't really wanna be by myself. Like, I don't know, like, I'm cool to be by myself, but like, like, why is that a flex? You know what I mean? It's like, I love companionship, I love, you know, my brothers, I love talking to people, I love conversating. I like picking people's brains, no matter who they are, you know what I mean? I just like, I just love conversation, I love.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 59:42Chris Williamson?

  Just because you can do it on your own doesn't mean that you should.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:45Chris Williamson?

  And it's all the intangibles. Maybe it would be

• 59:51Chris Williamson?

  weaker or you wouldn't need to compromise as much. It would certainly be fucking cheaper. There's lots of different advantages you can see that are really obvious. But all of the disadvantages that you would miss are like, well, I'm gonna be lonely and I'm gonna be in my head. And that probably means I'm just gonna be scrolling my phone and that's gonna fucking suck and.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Oh, dim scrolling is the worst, bro. If you wake up, start scrolling, I swear that.

• 1:00:12Chris Williamson?

  Day's ruined.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  Day's ruined. You get it. It's the day is ruined.

• 1:00:16Chris Williamson?

  Before it started.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Like, I need to play my, my, like, my just, like, meditation type of sounds before I even get close to the phone. Because, oh, my God, it'll ruin my day. Because I'm just like this and I'm like, I catch myself like, I already told myself.

• 1:00:30Chris Williamson?

  Been in bed for an hour.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  What is going on here? What is this phone doing to me? Why do I magnetically wanna go and do that?

• 1:00:37Chris Williamson?

  Every time.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  It's so weird.

• 1:00:38Chris Williamson?

  Every time.

• 1:00:41Chris Williamson?

  I'm interested in what you think about Conor McGregor's trajectory. You're both guys who fight. You're both guys that have partied and that like to party. What's your perspective on his journey?

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  It's, it's a, it's, it's one of those ones that, you know, did he learn too late, you know? You know, obviously, we were talking about how like, I'm happy that I learned, you know, as, you know, younger person. It seems that, you know, I want him to be back, though. I want him to be back, but I also know that, like, how old is he?

• 1:01:17Chris Williamson?

  Thirty, probably five now, something like that.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  It's a little tougher to rebound, you know? But he's one of those people that, you know, he's an icon to his sport.

• 1:01:29Chris Williamson?

  Fucking man, dude.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  He's just the fucking G, you know what I mean? And I want him to really be, like, I want what path he's on to be, like, I want that to be real. Like, if it's, if it's his path with God and if he's found faith. And, and that's where, you know, he feel like his motivation is driving him. Hopefully, it's real, you know? I want it, I want whatever he's gonna do, I want it just to be real. I want him to fight. Keeps on talking about a comeback, doesn't happen.

• 1:01:59Chris Williamson?

  How long has that been going on?

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Three years, four years, right? Or I don't know.

• 1:02:02Chris Williamson?

  Longer. It might be, you could tell me it's been five years since he fought.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wouldn't know. Yeah.

• 1:02:07Chris Williamson?

  I can't remember. And it's not as if the last few fights have been exactly drenched in glory either. One stoppage, like injury stoppage or whatever it was, and then

• 1:02:19Chris Williamson?

  Khabib, and then, I don't know, it's just.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Dustin?

• 1:02:22Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, just.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  I don't know, it's just.

• 1:02:25Chris Williamson?

  It's such a shame, dude. It's such a fucking shame. And the more that I think about it, the more it's just, sometimes I think about different versions of the universe where one thing happened or didn't happen. And the, the version of the universe where McGregor kind of didn't get lost in the source.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:42Chris Williamson?

  It's like, oh my God, more of those Aldo moments of him just being like a, like a samurai zen master type thing.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Maybe it happened for him for a reason. What if, what if he did do that and he was that guy? How much crazier would he?

• 1:02:55Chris Williamson?

  Maybe, yeah, yeah. He learns a lesson at 50.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Right, right, exactly.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Shit. We'll never know. I, I just wish the best for that guy. I hope he, uh, I hope he could make, uh, I want to see him win one more good fight.

• 1:03:09Chris Williamson?

  Yes.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  If he just does that, I'm cool. Legacy saved.

• 1:03:14Chris Williamson?

  Agreed. I think he's got one fight left on his UFC contract.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Chris Williamson?

  And, uh, yeah, man.

• 1:03:22Chris Williamson?

  I hope it, I hope it happens, but after a while, there's a little bit of, you know, all of the bravado. It becomes harder and harder to do the longer since you've fought and the older that you get. Right? You're able to do this because you've still got bags of career ahead of you if you want to. And you can back up.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  I feel like there should have been an evolution in it. Like you start off this young guy like Conor, bravado, talks a lot of shit. Then you become this, you know, legend, and you come this OG, and the OG has to be more con. More stoic, more, don't worry, I got this. Like, I've done this long enough. Watch what I do. You know?

• 1:04:02Chris Williamson?

  The opposite happened.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  With a little bit of trash, but then it just kept on going. You know, there should be some type of evolution there.

• 1:04:09Chris Williamson?

  Well, I guess, well, actually.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Cause like Mayweather stopped kind of being so.

• 1:04:13Chris Williamson?

  Very true.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:04:14Chris Williamson?

  That's a good point. Yeah, that is a really, really good point as somebody that was one of the biggest shit talkers. And then it. Toward the end of his career was just.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  I'm gonna beat you and you're not gonna.

• 1:04:24Chris Williamson?

  You couldn't, you couldn't fucking phase the guy.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  No, cause he already knows the game too much. Like when you know the game too much, it's like, alright, talk and whatever. Like, he already knows all the entertainment shit. He's just there to be Floyd Mayweather, I'mma come, I'mma.

• 1:04:40Chris Williamson?

  A professional, I'm here to do a job. Yeah.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I think he missed the evolution.

• 1:04:45Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, he did. There was a fucking firmware update.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  I know, right?

• 1:04:49Chris Williamson?

  The iOS update didn't come. There, that's something that is kind of scary to see. You know, you were talking about aggression, rage, anger, different components of how, how a fighter's sort of put together. There is something really fucking terrifying about somebody that just sees you as like a job to be dispatched. Like if you were to, if you were a plumber and you were to look on your day and you said, I need to replace this toilet at 11 a.m. You go, okay, you're just the toilet I'm replacing at 11 a.m. This is just a nor, a standard day in the office for me. Thank you very much. I'll see you on the other side. Like, I'll see you once the toilet's fitted. That's like, oh my god, I'm just a fucking task. I'm just a, I'm just on the to-do list for today. I'm not even an event, really. I'm just like something that I'm moving through. And when you see that with people, you go like, holy fuck.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, like what am I getting myself into?

• 1:05:37Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Are you worried or are you conscious around long-term health stuff? We talk, we hear a lot about CTE, about TBI, about brain health.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:48Chris Williamson?

  How much does that factor in as a, somebody that's been doing this since seven years old? This talk, I imagine when you were, the CT talk would have only come in in your teens, like to have been really, uh, high levels of awareness?

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Honestly, once it kind of got big with the football, I forgot what year that was. That was kind of the year that everybody started questioning, oh shit, like, we should probably all start thinking about our health. But it's also like, look, man, I've already accepted whatever happens to me. It's okay. I just try my best to not look into, to that type of future, but if it happens, I hope that the people that love me take care of me. That's it.

• 1:06:31Chris Williamson?

  You're just happy for that to be a side effect of your chosen career?

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I, I try to pay all my decisions, uh.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  And let it be guided by God. So if that's just the the nature of what I've chosen to do and what I felt like was the right thing to do. It's just what it is. And there's really nothing I could do about it. I mean, boxing.

• 1:06:54Chris Williamson?

  Avoid getting hit would be a good start.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure. And I try my best to, you know what I mean? Obviously, I'm still feeling clean. Never broke my nose. Thank God. You know what I mean? So I'm doing pretty good in that in that aspect. But like I said, if it happens, it happens, but I hope not.

• 1:07:10Chris Williamson?

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• 1:07:55Chris Williamson?

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• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know. No. I just feel like I've always had mental health problems. I don't know if it comes from boxing, but you know, little, you know, anxiety sometimes, a little bit of like bipolar-ness, but.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  I've always kind of been that way. Like, I don't know.

• 1:08:44Chris Williamson?

  I don't think you get to

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Chris Williamson?

  the level of obsession and focus.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Without having

• 1:08:49Chris Williamson?

  Without having something in that. You mentioned edge.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Chris Williamson?

  That edge comes from somewhere.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  My edge is that I am an obsessive thinker of like situations, positions, all right, I'm here. Like, like I'll study one position and like where I'm at for like a long period of time. Cause I'm like, all right, I know there's something more here, you know what I mean? And I'll, I'll get to that. But it really is, it's, a lot of it's just with boxing and God. Like, I don't really like to obsess over too many things, but like boxing, for some reason, I could just like think about that moment so many times, like, okay, that's where it was. Okay, he do that, but that's like I could, you know, if I shift here, boom, I could catch him quick and he might not notice. Like, there's just a lot of, you know, with my brain with that, it's just, I love it so much that I just want to study that.

• 1:09:35Chris Williamson?

  Can you remember a position is the one that comes to mind that you spent a long time thinking about? That then ended up being an unlock? Is there a particular sequence that you, that you spent a good time on?

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  Even when I was like young, I remember this, I was sparring this kid. And he kept catching me, kept catching me. And I was like, I remember going back home and just thinking about it for like two hours, three hours, like, why is he catching me with that? And then I, I, I, I had remembered, I overthought about it so much that I was like, all right, dad. I called my dad to the room. I said, call him back. Like, I have something for him. Like, let's go. And he goes, are you sure? Like, he was pretty much whipping your ass. Like, let's just wait a little bit. I was like, no, call him the next day. I figure something out. And it was when he would step forward, he would show his jab. So like, he would step and then show the jab.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  So I had caught on to it in my brain when I was replaying it. So I told my dad, every time he makes that move, I'm gonna cut to the, to the right and hit him with a right hand. And I guarantee you, he won't stop that. Cause he can't stop doing this. So every time he came in, huh, and I would catch him. And my dad was like, how do you figure that in a day?

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  I was like, I don't know. I just kept thinking about it. Like, he kept on catching me with that shot, but there has to be something that like I'm doing wrong or I'm not reading or something. And my dad's all, he always thinks about that story. He's like, that's all I knew. Like, you're different. Cause I, I could come back the next day and it'll, I'll be a whole different fight. Like, I don't know how, but I just like, the next day, like, the guy, if he thinks he got an edge, like, bro, I've been thinking about this all day. So I try to tell my little brother, like, after Swann, you need to just think. I go in your room and just think, think, think. Like, why did this happen? Why did that happen? Like, like, whoa, what was he doing that was throwing me off? There was a couple instances like that in the ring. It's like, hmm. There has to be something here, you know what I mean? So,

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  yeah, I've, I've learned so much things in boxing, like, just the whole aspect of it. It's like, it's almost like music notes. I started learning that, like, like, and when you're in the ring, it's like boom, boom, boom, boom. And then when something feels off, that means because some note was off. You know what I mean? Like some movement, okay. Oh, I read that wrong. Hmm, that's where it was. Okay. So it's like, it really is like a whole level of just like beautifulness. Like I, that's why I said I really love boxing. There's so much little things in it that like, get me excited.

• 1:12:04Chris Williamson?

  It's so fun. Have you been able to do that during any of your fights as a professional? Or have they been, how often are you surprised by that? You say most of the time presumably you're studying tape, you're thinking, you're bringing fighters into the, the gym and the camp that replicate the style that you're probably going to face. The whole game is to not be surprised.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:24Chris Williamson?

  When you get in there, but presumably that's what the other guy's doing too.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:27Chris Williamson?

  Which means that they're trying to come up with something that you don't yet know, which might surprise you, which means that you need to go back and you've got, forget two hours in a day.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:35Chris Williamson?

  You've got a minute in the corner to be like, yeah. Why is that thing happening? Is there, have you ever had that happen as a pro?

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  No, honestly, I haven't. I, it's been more so like when I'm on point and like when, you know, I'm in a good mental space,

• 1:12:54Speaker 01

  nothing will surprise me. Because it's like, I've already been thinking about, like, I've been looking at every scenario, like the times I've lost.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  I literally, it comes from a place of like self sabotage and like, I wasn't even in the camp. I was just kind of letting the day go by and just kind of like not being there. And I know it probably sounds like an excuse, but that's just what it was. Were they the better fighters that night? For sure. And I always give them credit on that, but you know, me at my best is when I'm thinking like this, when I'm paying attention to every day, when I'm, everything is like intentional. When I wake up, how I woke up was intentional. Not on the phone? Not on the phone. I'm reading things. I'm letting, you know, that inner wisdom just kind of flow me through the day. You know what I mean? I'm on track.

• 1:13:50Speaker 01

  When it's like that, it's hard to surprise me because I've been paying attention to everything. So, but now when I fight somebody, it's like what surprises me is like, oh wow, they're really talented. Like, they're fast. That's cool. You know what I mean? Like, it won't be like a move or like a a shot that will surprise me. Just be like, oh, this guy, he's on top of his game. That's cool. You know what I mean? But as far as like a technique or anything, it's kind of, it'd be hard to surprise me. But I feel like I've surprised people because a lot of people, they'd be seeing that move. They're like, where do you even come up with that stupid move? I look stupid, but am I getting hit? So I've been thinking about this. I've been like Mayweather, he does a shoulder rope,

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  but he hides behind it a lot and people think like, they call me off for turning my back, but I'm just giving them the side. And then you can't really hit me on it, but everybody makes fun of me on it. But I have not got hit once doing it.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  So guys, come on. You called, you called the silly show. They called the silly show. Right. It's all good.

• 1:14:57Chris Williamson?

  You're there to do a job, dude.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:58Chris Williamson?

  And if you dispatch someone, it's so funny to think about obsession. Obviously, it is very much a double edged sword. It's the sort of thing that can cause you to be obsessed with politics or porn or your ex or drugs or gambling or partying or status or money or how people see you.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15Chris Williamson?

  But it can also, if you direct it in the right angle, be the thing that causes you to completely change your game in the space of two hours as a professional sports star. It's the sort of thing that can cause you to obsess over how well you write or tell stories as a writer.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  That would be cool. Now, that, like, I would wanna learn how to do that. Like, writing, for some reason, it just seems so like, like, if you could get to a high level where you could make somebody feel something just by a sentence and you know it's gonna hit, that's pretty sick.

• 1:15:46Chris Williamson?

  And what my housemate at the moment is just finished the first draft of his book, which is gonna be amazing. And I'm watching him, all he does every single day is in the spare bedroom in the house that we live in. Every wall is covered in Post-it notes, everything. He's just living and breathing this book. You know, in AI and ChatGPT and stuff like that, there's an idea of a context window. And it means how big is the sort of world of information about what you're talking about that the AI has reference to? So if you have a real long chat, the context window is super huge. If you start a new chat, the context window is a lot smaller. His context window for his own book is like three galaxies big, right? He's got all of these different stories and he'll come downstairs and tell me,

• 1:16:31Chris Williamson?

  I just learned this story about Phil Collins and how he wrote, like, In the Air Tonight or how he wrote this song. And it's so fucking cool. And I'm watching, like you did, I'm watching somebody who is so obsessed. Now, my point being, most people go through their lives without ever getting an obsession that's worth anything. People can reach the end of their lives having either never been obsessed or only being obsessed about stuff that wasn't worth anything. So if you're the sort of person who has an obsession that's pointing in a positive direction, you really shouldn't waste it.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:17:04Chris Williamson?

  It's a fucking wonderful thing. It's free motivation. It's free discipline. It's not that you as a kid had to be forced to train. You couldn't not train all that you wanted to. It wasn't like someone went into your bedroom after you lost that fight to that guy, that kid, and said, you need to think about this for two hours. If you told me to go and play video games, I couldn't. I can't not do this thing.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  That's very true.

• 1:17:27Chris Williamson?

  Free discipline, free motivation, and that doesn't last forever. And what you need is while the tide, while the current's with you to sort of ride down, now, okay, I'm gonna do what I'm called to. And I think that's what you were talking about up top. I like, I get little whispers.

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:44Chris Williamson?

  Sometimes these fleeting thoughts, these nudges that move my life in different directions. I'm gonna follow those because in future, they might not be there and you missed them. You missed them.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  It's like the neon sign. Kind of just went past it like, damn, but.

• 1:17:58Chris Williamson?

  I could have seen, what was it?

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  What was it? Yeah. It's cool just to see what it was, you know what I mean?

• 1:18:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  And just, you know, kind of see where that goes. But yeah, I always told people my biggest fear in life was, cause when they asked me, like, is it death? I was like, no, it's just not reaching my potential and just wasting it. Cause I know I have so much. So it's like that, that just scares me.

• 1:18:18Chris Williamson?

  Pressure's a privilege, dude. Hey, I appreciate you. I'm fired up to see what the rest of this year has for you.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:18:23Chris Williamson?

  You're the man.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  Sir.

• 1:18:24Chris Williamson?

  Appreciate you.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Pleasure.

• 1:18:25Chris Williamson?

  Till next time.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:26Chris Williamson?

  Goodbye, everybody.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  I'm gonna try this.

• 1:18:28Chris Williamson?

  Got it in you.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:18:29Speaker 02

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