Roger Mortimer: The Usurper

Roger Mortimer: The Man Who Overthrew a King. Matt Lewis delves into the life of Roger Mortimer, a key figure in the downfall of King Edward II. Joined by historian Paul Dryburgh, they explore Mortimer's military and political career, his strategic marriage and his crucial role alongside Queen Isabella. From Mortimer's storied escape from the Tower of London to his ascent to power and ultimate execution, this is an examination the complexities and legacy of one of medieval England's most fascinating figures. Gone Medieval is presented by Matt Lewis and Dr. Eleanor Janega. Lines performed by Enzo Cilenti and Daniel Evans. Audio editor is Amy Haddow, the producers are Joseph Knight and Rob Weinberg. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff. All music used is courtesy of Epidemic Sounds. Gone Medieval is a History Hit podcast. Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here: https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Matt Lewis?

  From long-lost Viking ships and kings buried in unexpected places, to tales of murder, power, faith, and the lives of ordinary people across medieval Europe and beyond. Join me, Matt Lewis, Dr. Eleanor Yarnagger, and some of the world's leading historians as we bring history's most fascinating stories to life, only on History Hit. With your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com/subscribe.

• 0:42Speaker 01

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• 1:16Speaker 02

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• 1:51Matt Lewis?

  Hello, I'm Matt Lewis. Welcome to Gone Medieval from History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We've got the most intriguing mysteries, the gobsmacking details, and latest groundbreaking research, from the Vikings to the printing press, from kings to popes to the crusades. We cross centuries and continents to delve into rebellions, plots, and murders to find the stories, big and small, that tell us how we got here. Find out who we really were with Gone Medieval.

• 2:34Matt Lewis?

  "We left Isabella and her plans in France at the court of her brother, the king. By her side is Roger Mortimer, a figure who must now be dragged into the light. His family have forged their authority on the lawless Welsh borders, the marches, where their word carried more weight than that of the king. That region breeds men, strong, proud, and independent of mind. Roger hates Hugh the Spenser, and that puts him at odds with the king, who will not be robbed of another favorite. Why do they hate each other? We shall find out soon enough.

• 3:14Matt Lewis?

  Roger has escaped imprisonment in the Tower and joined his list of grievances to those of the Queen. His hard edge will sharpen the Queen's determination. She may have a way back to Edward, but the path of compromise is not one that Roger knows or cares to walk. You can almost hear his crowing pride at his victory."

• 3:47Speaker 03

  "The prince I rule, the queen do I command. The proudest lords salute me as I pass. I seal, I cancel, I do what I will. Feared am I more than loved. Let me be feared. And when I frown, make all the court look pale. Now all is sure. The Queen and Mortimer shall rule the realm, the King and none rule us."

• 4:17Matt Lewis?

  Pride is so often followed by a fall. The story of how Roger Mortimer, from the edge of England, clawed his way to such heights is a fascinating one.

• 4:32Matt Lewis?

  Gone Medieval's four-part special on the family feud that almost destroyed the Plantagenet dynasty continues now with the story of Roger Mortimer. If you've listened to the previous episodes, you'll know we've considered the roles of Edward the Second and Isabella of France in the crisis. If you haven't listened to them, they're in our catalogue for you to go and look out now. Roger is the third piece of this jigsaw. He offers Isabella something she didn't have, perhaps in more ways than one. I'm delighted to be joined today by Paul Dryborough, who is Principal Record Specialist at the National Archives and also President of the Mortimer History Society.

• 5:10Matt Lewis?

  Welcome to Gone Medieval, Paul. Fantastic to have you with us.

• 5:13Speaker 04

  Great to have you in, by the way. Lovely to be here.

• 5:15Matt Lewis?

  Who better to talk about as well than Roger Mortimer? There is so much to say about this medieval man. I thought we could start with a little bit of an overview of him. He's quite often cast as this dastardly stepfather figure in English medieval history. Do you think that's broadly true? Is that fair?

• 5:33Speaker 04

  I mean, it literally is, what, let's say, three years of his life? Where that is, that is the accusation you could level at the man? I mean, obviously, he's born in around 1287. Until 1321, too, he is one of the most loyal servants of both Edward the First and Edward the Second. He had, well, let's face it, by contemporary standards, a relatively stellar military career, administering Ireland successfully, holding off a Scottish invasion there, being an important figure in the marches of Wales. I'm obviously related to an important local march family there. And being, you know, as a contemporary of Edward the Second in particular, about similar age, tending him at coronations, supporting Edward during the troublesome early years

• 6:16Speaker 04

  of his reign, which we'll probably come on to with the crisis around Piers Gabberton. And it's only really until the civil war from around 1321 to and the aftermath of that where he's pushed into rebellion. And then rebellion ultimately becomes Escape from the Tower after imprisonment. He then leads an invasion of England with Queen Isabella. They have, potentially have a relationship. And that leads then Roger, for three years, to be kind of the... The leading male figure in the country, even many contemporaries say, acting as if he were king, being above the king, the teenager of the third.

• 6:53Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, yeah, there's some juicy stuff in there that I can't wait to get further into as we go through. And I guess all of that sort of makes it surprising, the significant role that he will play in English dynastic history, given that he, for much of his career, is utterly loyal and also a relatively unimportant regional magnate.

• 7:13Speaker 04

  That's probably fair. I mean, obviously, they are a high ranking baronial family. The Mortimers of Wigmore are related to the royal family, slightly more distantly than others, a big magnet community. But then, yeah, they're not one of the Earls, the Commodal families, until 1328, when Roger himself basically enuncies himself. I mean, they are, they're middle ranking aristocracy, I'd say, with, as you say, regional interests. A lot of Roger's early life, until he's, let's say, mid 30s, is actually spent outside of England, away from court.

• 7:47Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, yeah. And do we get a sense from the sources of what kind of character he had? And, you know, how much is that influenced by the experiences of his later life when he becomes deeply unpopular?

• 8:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I guess most of the character portraits come from the years, let's say, 1326 to 1330. Oh, sorry, real late to those years. And so they are written almost exclusively with hindsight by chroniclers who are looking back on an era of turmoil, civil war, and, you know, the young king who would then ultimately become arguably England's most successful medieval king. Those years, they had to explain away. How could this, you know, this great man had this horrible sort of upbringing and this terrible individual who, you know, behaved arrogantly, he was acquisitive, violent, potentially, you know, stepped over individuals, had members of the royal family executed?

• 8:42Speaker 04

  If we take some of the accusations relating to, let's say, the Earl of Kent's execution in 1330, literally. So, you know, most of the character portraits you get of the man come, are coloured by the period of the minority. Before then, really, the main character portraits you get will be in the chronicle produced at Wigmore, Wigmore Abbey, the family's abbey in the late 14th century, where of course it's much more positive. There's a lot more airbrushing of the. The thirteen, twenty seven to thirty period, that sort of national based chronicles or monastic ones in Lys and Aldens or.

• 9:14Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, yeah, we'll just skip over this bit that doesn't quite fit with what we're trying to say about the Mortimer family.

• 9:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's kind of what goes on, yeah.

• 9:19Matt Lewis?

  So I guess if we go back to the beginning and we strip away some of that hindsight, what do we know about Roger's early life? Where is he born? What family is he born into? How is he raised?

• 9:29Speaker 04

  Okay, well, I mean, the Mortimer family of Wigmore had been barons on the Marchers of Wales, Herefordshire, since doomsday, really. They're a doomsday family. They come from Normandy, not with the conqueror directly, but they come in the wave after, after the initial conquest. And for what, basically, what, 200 years? It's an unsettled, unsecure inheritance on the Marches. Obviously, they have the estates in Wigmore, they have some estates elsewhere in England, Berkshire, Hampshire, some in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. But it's really, as, as most of the Marcher families were in those 200 years, establishing their right to their territories and their, and their lordship through conquest and then

• 10:11Speaker 04

  holding off either other Marcher rivals or Welsh princes, Welsh lords who are contesting that, that area sort of from what is now Flintshire, all the way around in an arc, going around to the Pembrokeshire in West Wales.

• 10:25Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, I think when, when I talk about the marches to listeners, I always try and frame it as this almost like a, an medieval English Wild West. It breeds a certain type of hard man who considers himself slightly outside the law, that they have more control there, that they're not as touchable by the king as many other people. So it breeds a certain mindset in that area, doesn't it?

• 10:46Speaker 04

  Yeah. And of course, then they hold their lands technically by right, but they claim by right of conquest. And so these Marcher lordships that are carved out are held as what's known as liberties. You know, the king's writ in theory doesn't run. And so the king's sheriff can't go into the liberties of the, of Ranneshir or Kerry and Cadwell, wherever it might be the Mortimers hold. And, you know, just have free rein because the, the lord is lord there, you know, it's not the king.

• 11:14Matt Lewis?

  When Roger becomes an adult, how significant is his marriage to Joan de Jeanville in terms of his rise to a more noble and more landed status?

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a very good, very good question. I mean, the Mortimers are doing okay. They're doing well. I mean, Roger Mortimer's grandfather, who dies in 1282, he is one of the chief architects of the downfall of the Simon de Monfort and the Barons in the Barons' War of the 1260s. He's one of the first best friends. He's rewarded richly from that with extra estates on the marches, particularly in Shropshire. As Roger's becoming, sorry, he's becoming a teenager, Edmund is able to acquire the marriage of Joan. So Joan is the granddaughter of Geoffrey de Joieville, one of these great figures of the 13th century, come over from France, been one of Henry III and Edward I's leading courtiers, leading military lieutenants. Geoffrey, for example, is, you know, he's justicier of Ireland for quite a long time.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  And, you know, he even actually dies there ultimately. So Joan brings half of the Delacy inheritance, which is one of these great sort of transnational inheritances, going back the 12th century. And she brings in Loveloe, for example, and then Shropshire, Stanton Lacy and other places. But also half of the Liberty of Meath, or the County Meath in Ireland. So I sent it around Trim, which is this great, if anybody's ever been there, it's a great medieval castle. It's one of the most fertile, wealthy parts of Ireland. So it's worth fighting for. This kind of transforms the Mortimers from this sort of relatively provincial, well-to-do baronial family

• 12:50Speaker 04

  into this now transnational family, which can compete with other comical families.

• 12:58Matt Lewis?

  Yeah. So this, this marriage sort of puts them on the cusp of the next step.

• 13:02Speaker 04

  And actually, in terms of, in terms of marriage, of course, it's really, it's really good for the family because Joan and Roger have at least 12 children. They have a good number of sons, good number of daughters. So Roger, later on in life, we might come back to this. Roger was able to marry most of his children. When he when he attains a level of power that he didn't have before into some of the the leading families of England and and of the British Isles, he's, you know, he really transforms what the Mortimer line was then to become.

• 13:30Matt Lewis?

  Yeah. And you mentioned that they're they're already fairly significant in Wales. They've become significant now in Ireland. To what extent do experiences in Ireland and Wales influence Roger as he's he's kind of cutting his teeth militarily? How active is he in those regions?

• 13:46Speaker 04

  Oh, I think I think this is this is a key thing. So obviously, up until 1308, he is basically on the marches, you know, in England. I'm assuming he learns an awful lot from his uncle. So his uncle, confusingly also called Roger.

• 13:58Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, because the Mortimers have that annoying naming habit, don't they, of of switching Edmund?

• 14:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, Roger Edmund, Roger Edmund, Roger Edmund, Roger. Yeah, so Roger, Lord of Chirk, he is the younger brother of Edmund, father of, uh, what we're talking about, so he's Roger, Roger Mortimer's uncle. He is given the Lordship of Chirk, which is how they're differentiated, Roger Mortimer of Chirk and Brooke Walter of Wigmore. And Roger is this, Roger Mortimer of Chirk is a really hard-bitten, you know, he's sort of a Marcher hard man. He's he's been conditioned by the um, the Welsh Wars in the 1270s, 1280s. He had an important role there. By the early 14th century, he is kind of the the king's lieutenant in the marches of Wales, in Wales itself. So he knows exactly how Marcher warfare,

• 14:44Speaker 04

  holding that balance between military action, political patronage, but also, you know, legal, the legal structures of the March of Wales, how to manipulate that. So I'm assuming that Roger, we don't know, he may well have, you know, grown up in in his uncle's household possibly, and he would have learned an awful lot from that. So from 1308 then, until 1320 really, Roger then spends an awful lot of time, Roger Mortimer of Wigmore, he spends an awful lot of time in Ireland. Firstly, obviously, he has to establish his lordship over Trim, which is, you know, it's settled, but on the margins, Ireland again is another one of those countries where, because there are multiple cultures and butting up against each other, there's obviously

• 15:26Speaker 04

  the native community in Ireland, there's the settler community, which has been expanding and then sort of, you know, competing since the late 12th century. And then there's the sort of the English of Ireland, who are, you know, the represent the government, the senior, the senior aristocrats. So in Trim itself, the frontiers are, you know, slightly porous, they thought on the on the margins, it's not secure. He has to take a lot of military action there over over the dozen years he's there. He also has lordship over a place called Dunamace, which is sort of west of Dublin, which is much less secure. So he has to negotiate relationships with a variety of different people, eclipse stuff from the Crown, the Dublin government, his local tenants in Trim and Dunamace, those rival figures on the

• 16:10Speaker 04

  margins of his authority, who are, you know, potentially going to bring fire and sword to some of his lands. And also those other sort of lords, what they call the Anglo Irish community, those lords who are English by ethnicity, but have born, brought up in the Irish context. By the time you get to 1320, he's had one of the most multifaceted experiences that any of his peers would ever have had. He probably the most diverse experience in a way, because he's had to deal with lordship across three or four different jurisdictions, with three or four different types of law that you've got to navigate. You've got competing forces, you've got allies that that change and shift, you've got two different governments,

• 16:52Speaker 04

  you've got government and a remove, you've got your relationship with the Crown in Westminster. It's very complicated, but also, you know, very few people that would have had that experience. And as on a personal level, of course, we don't know for sure, but we can estimate that probably, you know, a good half to a quarter to a third of his children, 12 children were born in Ireland. He's setting roots there as well as, and obviously, you know, he doesn't spend all of his time there. It's constantly going back and forward. And after 1320, he never sets foot in Ireland again. For a variety of reasons, but he's one of the few people, by the time you get to the late 13th, early 14th century, a few people in England are at his level of society who's spending any time in Ireland at all and actually making a considered effort to

• 17:35Speaker 04

  defend his territory and also to defend the lordship. So in 1315, the Scots, as part of their campaign for recognition of Scottish independence, after, you know, English defeat at Bannockburn and to the recognition of Robert Bruce as king, they invade Ireland. Now, some people have argued this is a diversionary tactic to take English resources away from the Scottish marches. Other people have seen this as an attempt to kind of, well, conquer, conquer Ireland for the Scots and to bring the Celtic fringe, so to speak, together. I mean, Edward Bruce, who's the surviving brother of Robert Bruce, you know, he proclaims himself king, he's crowned in May 1315, we think. And over the next three

• 18:16Speaker 04

  years, there is a Scottish presence in Ireland. And at least twice during raids from their Ulster base into, you know, deep into Ireland, they are able to stop, hold court, plunder Trim, which is, you know, the centre of Altria's lordship in Ireland. So in 1315, Roger, he's either there, he goes over there with, you know, decent military force of his tenants. He's actually defeated for the first time. This is kind of a forgotten defeat because you think, well, later on he actually is really well. And in a place called Kells in Meath in December 1315, he kind of flees Ireland at that point, goes back to England as part of the negotiations, are part of his place at court and then sort of court

• 18:57Speaker 04

  shenanigans. In November 1316, he's then nominated to be the king's lieutenant in Ireland. And he arrives the following Easter, spending 18 months there, dealing with the fallout from the Scots' failed attempt to, you know, take Dublin and to raid more deeply into Ireland. But then also restoring order and bringing Ireland back to loyalty to the English Crown, which is no easy effort and required not simply military force, but also sort of a keen eyes to what patronage, how patronage should be dispensed, how the law should be used to bring various gangs of local lineages and particularly in southwest of Ireland back

• 19:39Speaker 04

  to some kind of loyalty to the Crown. So he's a man conditioned, really, I think. If you only think of Roger Mortimer for the minority of Edward III, you're missing an awful lot. And you're missing an awful lot of importance to how the politics and the military and cultural situation of the British Isles plays out in, let's say, the 20 years from middle of the 1290s all the way through to about 1320.

• 20:05Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, so many rabbit holes you could dive down, isn't there, in Roger's story?

• 20:10Speaker 04

  I know.

• 20:10Matt Lewis?

  But I wonder if we could just think about what all of this means for his English experiences in the 1310s. So he's spending a lot of time out of England. He's at least nominally loyal to Edward II. Is he slightly removed from all of the stuff that goes on around Gaveston and Edward's increasing unpopularity? Is he able to distance himself from all of that?

• 20:32Speaker 04

  Interesting question. I mean, I've, when I was obviously doing my research on Roger Mortimer the first time, I noticed there is actually quite a close relationship between Mortimer and Gaveston. And so in 1306, for example, well, no, sorry, before I should go back before then, actually, Piers Gaveston owns Roger Mortimer's marriage. So for a while, he has his marriage and he has custody of his lands. So Edmund II, until 1307, until Roger is able to buy his way out of Piers Gaveston's custody, Gaveston is technically, you know, Walter is technically Gaveston's ward. After that, so when Edward II comes to the throne and Gaveston starts to, you know, peacock around and take all the attention at court.

• 21:15Speaker 04

  Roger is kind of conspicuously loyal, you know, he's getting rewards at the time that Gaverson is getting rewards. They were before, actually before Edward the First dies and Edward the Second comes to the throne, both men were actually forfeited by Edward the First for leaving a tournament in Scotland to go together with another group of younger men to the near continent for another tournament. So I think they are, although I think Gaverson's slightly been older again, because he's often seen as a slightly older brother to Edward the Second, he's again slightly older than Roger again, about 10 years older maybe. But they seem to have been relatively close. Obviously from 1308, when Malmor is less often at court, less often in the kingdom, and you get the attempts to constrain Edward and Gaverson through things like the ordinances,

• 22:00Speaker 04

  you rarely see Roger around. He rarely has an obvious place either with the court or with the ordained. It's not one of the ordained, he sticks away from that, kind of keeps aloof, really, as far as I can tell. 1312, I think, I'm fairly sure he's out of the country. So when Gaverson is captured and executed, he's out of the country, that he's in Ireland, I think.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  There are some, it's very difficult to tell often, because the sources which are often used to locate an individual at any one time, as you know, they're all really bitty. You know, we don't get, with the exception of the king, or the queen maybe, we don't get reliable itineraries, even for the, you know, the leading members of society, really. So it's very difficult to place him there.

• 22:43Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, but there is at least a sense that he's able to disconnect himself from the trouble. He's not having to pick a side, I guess is the important thing for him. Even if he's friendly with Gaverson, he's not having to side with Gaverson and the king, or side with the ordained. He's able to sort of remove himself and sit back and let it all play out around him.

• 23:00Speaker 04

  Well, we know afterwards that there is no stain on his loyalty. Edward doesn't punish Malmor after Gaverson's death. You know, when there are key national moments, he is one of the people who is around the king and is brought in.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  For I'm guessing his experience and you know, he's well, his seniority, his experience and his knowledge.

• 23:21Matt Lewis?

  Yeah. And I guess, given then all of that background, how and when does he begin to fall out with Edward?

• 23:28Speaker 04

  So, well, I mean, this is going back now. So after after the Scots are eventually defeated in thirteen eighteen, October thirteen eighteen, through, you know, an army of men that Mortimer often brought to Ireland in many cases, or had worked closely with. He then comes back, he's part of the negotiations for what's called the Treaty of Leake, which is where Edward and Thomas of Lancaster, his main baronial opponent, kind of do a kiss of peace. They agree, they're all going to work together, it's all great. And then Mortimer himself becomes part of the council, the sitting council, which advises Edward from that point on. Thirteen nineteen, however, as part of that council, he snares himself the chief governorship of Ireland again.

• 24:06Speaker 04

  So for about eighteen months, thirteen nineteen, thirteen twenty, he's out of the country again, governing Ireland, doing a lot of, you know, what I think we perceived at the time to be good things for the order and Ireland's loyalty connection to England. It's only when sort of towards the end of thirteen twenty that the Marcher Lords get a wind of the ambitions in the marches themselves, as well as nationally, of Hugh the Spencer, father and son, that they start to think, hang on, what's going on here? We need to nip this in the bud. And by the time you get to like Easter thirteen twenty one, there's a full blown civil war in the offing and, you know, a group of Marcher Lords basically gather together.

• 24:49Speaker 04

  I'm assuming swear some kind of oath of confraternity in this and then basically go and destroy despensers estates in the marches and further further afield, bringing them then into direct conflict with the crown. But of course, they're doing this under royal banners because the line they take is that, well, you know, we're not disloyal to Edward. We're trying to remove those evil councillors from his side.

• 25:14Matt Lewis?

  So it's interesting, I think, that for all of those many, many years of experiences everywhere else of increasing influence and loyalty to the crown and keeping out of all of the problems, it's a threat to his March of Heartlands that really drags Roger into protecting that, which means opposing Hugh Dispence, which means opposing Edward the Second.

• 25:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. And that is the thing. And of course, then over the next, what, nine months throughout the rest of 1321, early into early 1322, effectively, it's a full-blown civil war. There are standoffs. There are moments when, for example, you know, Edward the Second and his queen besiege Leeds Castle in Kent, where the wife of a chap called Boffalimi Battlesmere, who's now one of their grouping against the king, there's a siege going on and the Mortimers decide that they are going to start attacking royal towns along the Seven Valley, which of course they're all sort of, you know, they're lined up on one side of the Seven. Edward and his royal forces are sort of the other side, they're in the south and east. And they decide, I mean, Edward, you know, eventually leaves the siege of Leeds, goes

• 26:20Speaker 04

  up towards the marches to, you know, basically head them off. And the Mortimers and others sort of harry them on the other side of the Seven. There's no actual pitched battle, but, you know, the rebels, so to speak, do a lot of damage to royal towns, which of course then brings them directly into, yeah, they are technically, I think, committing treason, or they will, they will eventually commit treason. And by the time you get to the early stages of 1322, somebody, somewhere, has a word with the Mortimers and goes, right, lads, this is getting dangerous now, you're in big trouble here. Maybe they decide it themselves, but they are brought to the negotiating table. Unlike some of the other leaders of the Baronial Rebellion, so Thomas Earl of Lancaster,

• 27:05Speaker 04

  Humphrey de Boon Earl of Hereford, who they were very closely with, they kind of continue the fight, whereas the Mortimers surrender. Now, we don't know what terms they surrender. They surrender at Shrewsbury in early January 1322. It's possible that they submitted in the hope that Edward would show them mercy, or it's possible that the negotiators for the king basically said, well, you know, we will show you leniency, come back, submit, and we will negotiate on your behalf with the crown. Of course, what actually happened was they did submit and they were basically carted off to the Tower, both uncle and nephew. We're not sure what happened to the the sons immediately, but Roger's sons appear then to have been taken into captivity and taken

• 27:48Speaker 04

  south, first to Odeon, then to Windsor, and I think to the Tower ultimately. His daughters and his wife were rounded up. Over the next year or so, they were sent to various places. The daughters were sent to nunnaries across across England. They didn't suffer, you know, execution in a way that lots of the male rebels did. Many, many, many of the contrarians, as they were called, were executed in, you know, very public executions. Their bodies were left hanging for, you know, months as a warning to others about rebelling against this new Edward the Second, so to speak, the new man Edward the Second. But the Mortimer was just languished in prison. But in July thirteen twenty-two, they were brought before a tribunal, they were tried, and they were condemned to death. But despite the pleas

• 28:33Speaker 04

  from the community of Wales, who, you know, wanted the harsher punishment to be enacted, Edward, for some reason, and we can, I can only assume it must be because of both Mortimer's careers of loyal service to him, he commuted the sentence to life imprisonment. Now, Roger Mortimer, the uncle, he dies in, we think, about thirteen twenty-six, in the Tower, aged seventy. He never, he never lives to see what his nephew would go on to achieve. But of course, infamously, we get to the August the first thirteen twenty-three, and Roger Mortimer is one of the few men to escape from the medieval Tower of London, and that changes everything completely.

• 29:27Matt Lewis?

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• 32:04Speaker 06

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• 32:49Speaker 06

  award-winning network, History Hit.

• 33:08Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, he gets his own little A-Team-style story of escaping from the Tower of London. Can you give us a quick overview of how he gets out? Do we know how he escaped?

• 33:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, there are various different accounts which Laura Tompkins has just actually kind of brought together in our new book, The Mortimer's of Wigmore, The Delusive Destiny, by all your good bookshops. So I'm not, I'm probably not allowed that plug.

• 33:29Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, absolutely allowed that plug. If you don't make it, I will.

• 33:32Speaker 04

  Very good. Well, okay, right. In that case, so yeah, effectively, he appears to have a man on the inside and men on the outside. There is a plot. It's not simply an internal plot, it's an external plot as well. It appears that Edward changes his mind again. So a year after commuting the sentence, Edward makes it known that he's going to execute Roger. We don't know why. We think it's because there are a variety of other conspiracies at large out in the country. There are several royal castles, for example, where prisoners are either temporarily released, people get in, they're able to temporarily release prisoners. There are, again, conspiracies to free leading contrarians. And of course, Mortimer's the leading one, the leading survivor at this stage. So Edward must think, well, get rid of him. That gets rid of the problem.

• 34:13Speaker 04

  But he has a chap on the inside, a chap called Gerald Olspeth, who appears to drug the guards, drug Mortimer's guards and the constable at this feast. Some accounts say that the drug that he gives them is so strong that they're still, they're basically knocked out for two days. And the constable at our Stephen Seagrave, Edward wants to prosecute him afterwards, but actually realise he's just too ill. The story that they're telling must be genuine. He must be that seriously ill. So effectively what happens is all the guards having a feast for the feast of St Peter in Chains, and they all have this drink, whenever it might be, the food's droaked, they're all cathatonic, and Gerald eventually somehow gets Mortimer

• 34:56Speaker 04

  out of his cell, either by prising away at the bars, or there's a hole, the tower's in terrible state of repair. There are holes in the wall everywhere. So he appears to have got out of the house, got out of his room, possibly through the kitchens, into the outer bailey, rope ladder, which again smuggled into him in a bailey, then some of the outer bailey. There's a boat waiting for him on the Thames that rows him a few miles, horses then, very quick ride to, we think Portsmouth maybe, where another boat is waiting for him. And that then spirits him away to the continent before anybody's even noticed. Because Edward's in the north, he's not in London. So before a search is really initiated, there's already several days have gone past, and he's already on the continent by that point.

• 35:38Matt Lewis?

  And this puts him in France and puts him into the company now of Edward's now disaffected Queen Isabella of France. I guess the one thing we probably ought to just get out the way to begin with, do you think they were ever lovers? And if so, when did that begin?

• 35:55Speaker 04

  Right. Well, the answer is yes, I do. But just to sort of go back slightly, obviously, when he's over there, Isabella doesn't really go to France for another year, or eighteen months, because she herself is, kind of becomes a problem at court. There's anti-French sentiment in England, and eventually she loses her household, she loses her dambs and that kind of thing. However, Edward and Isabella don't break up their relationship. Isabella is sent to France as kind of an envoy, a peace envoy with her brother, to negotiate over Edward's homage to the French king and peace in the south west of France. Late in 1325, then, her son is also sent over to actually do the homage. Now, at no point before then, so

• 36:38Speaker 04

  Before September twenty five, do we think that Roger and Isabella actually come into contact? They know each other, they will have known each other, they would have been in contact with each other during their earlier lives at court. But there's no real sense they ever really knew each other. The first inkling really that anything is possibly going on is, I think, in about February thirteen twenty six, when Edward writes to Isabella and to Prince Edward, his son, to say, well, I understand that, you know, you're now taking the counsel of Mortimer. And he talks about their relationship being, quote, in-house and out-of-house. So Edward is, I think, quite early has been told there's something going on, or he's willing to make people believe there's something going on. I mean, other historians, I respect their views on this.

• 37:23Speaker 04

  There is no actual solid piece of evidence to suggest that they definitely were in a sexual relationship. But I think circumstantial, which I know you can't use as conclusive, I'm all over those, fine, don't worry about that. Circumstantial, there's just the fact that it would make sense, certainly after thirteen twenty seven, that their closeness after thirteen twenty seven, when they are almost constantly together except at key moments. And Joan is nowhere to be seen, Joan, Roger's wife. It stretches credulity for me that they didn't have some kind of relationship. Whether it lasted or whether they were just, you know, they became this sort of political partnership, I don't know. But I do err on the side that they were in a relationship.

• 38:06Speaker 04

  And that, you know, that the propaganda is just that, it is propaganda. But to have any kind of impact, there must be great, there must be believable, it must be believable.

• 38:17Matt Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 04

  Having said that, of course, there are also the accusations, the widespread accusations of solvency against Edward, the dispensers, which, you know, are less believable. So, but they're probably at the same time. So, you know, we've got to caveat them all, so.

• 38:31Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, yeah. So how then, once Isabella and Mortimer become politically allied, even if we set aside the physical relationship that they may have had, at what point do they decide to invade England? And how much should we see Mortimer behind that or Isabella?

• 38:49Speaker 04

  I think it's a combination of both. I mean, I think obviously they are, they've been, they've been at the French court, they're obviously looking for allies, they're gathering a sort of an army of exiles, you know, disaffected individuals fleeing England, gathering around them. Of course, once they've got the heir to the throne, then any campaign is not technically, and it's, you know, it's why you, why nobody ever talks of thirteen twenty six as an invasion. I mean, it is, it's, I mean, I don't understand why people don't speak of thirteen twenty six as a successful invasion. Because it is a force of predominantly non-English people coming over. They are, gather this force of German mercenaries, men from Aino, who is the, is the, the county in the Low Countries to whom Edward the Third is eventually married into.

• 39:32Speaker 04

  There, there's talk of them, the scandal of their relationship and what, what they're planning being too much for Charles the Fourth, Isabella's brother, he kind of, they are forced out of Paris. And they then go to Aino where they come up with this, this marriage alliance, in return for which the Count of Aino puts his military forces, his navy at their disposal. Now presumably throughout all of this, Mortimer and others have got contacts in England saying, well, what has the land lying? Edward is constantly putting out orders, looking, asking sheriffs and coastal watchers to look out for, you know, suspicious correspondents, looking out for boats coming or, you know, so at one point, you know, ships are spotted in the Channel.

• 40:15Speaker 04

  There's all these invasion scares. Edward is fairly sure what's going to happen from quite an early stage, sort of the summer of thirteen twenty six. And obviously they did so, I think it's fairly last minute decision, obviously, to invade because you've got to gather your ships together and you've got to wait for, wait for the right wind, you've got to wait for the right moment. And then they sort of set sail around the twenty second, twenty third of September from Dordrecht and they land sort of in Suffolk at the Orwell Estuary on the twenty fourth and. It's a bloodless coup effectively. There's never a battle fought over the next, what, two months. Edward initially tries to establish some, some kind of military resistance, you know, a razor called out. Men are paid to raise forces, there are musters called, but ultimately,

• 41:00Speaker 04

  these musters peter out. Nobody turns up with the exception of a very small number of people. Edward the dispenser and the dispensers flee west. Where they're going, we're not sure. Obviously, they could have been fleeing to Wales, where obviously Edward has got, Prince of Wales has got reservoirs of personal support. They could have been heading for Ireland ultimately, potentially to try and raise forces there, but they don't make it, obviously. They send Hugh dispenser to Bristol to look after Bristol because it's a key, obviously a key port where they might want to bring reinforcements in. They board ship at Chepstow around the twentieth of October of thirteen twenty six, but it's blown ashore near Cardiff five days later. And they're then, a very small band of King, dispenser, a couple of others, are left wandering South Wales. They

• 41:42Speaker 04

  get to Neath Abbey, the Chancery rolls are left there, a lot of treasures left there in Swansea, and they're eventually, you know, captured, betrayed and captured on a Welsh hillside in the middle of November, whereas Mortimer and Isabella have literally spent two months on, it's a brilliant campaign, both a propaganda against the dispensers, but also getting the country into a state in which it's going to accept a new regime. So they are, you know, they're replacing royal officials. They are targeting dispenser deposits in monastic houses. They're gathering treasure as they go around the country. They're bringing people who they

• 42:23Speaker 04

  might suspect of being loyal to Edward on board with them. You know, they are granting offices, lands, commissions, custodies of defeated royalists to, you know, what you might sort of wavering earls to bring them on side. I mean, one one example is the Earl Wren. I mean, the Earl Wren could we could have a podcast of the Earl Wren. I mean, he's he's literally the greatest survivor in medieval history. I'd say he's one of them. You know, he survives three kings, no end of like shenanigans. He's amazing. But again, he makes sure he's on the right side at the right time. And so sort of for that two months period, so between September and the capture of the king, there are, you know, two rival courts, technically, but the one with the actual power is the

• 43:06Speaker 04

  one which focuses on the queen. They know exactly what they're doing. They've got a really good plan. Things appear not to go wrong. They're lucky that, you know, Edward flees. He can't put up resistance because nobody comes out for Edward. The people he thought were loyal turn out some of them in some cases to actually be, you know, men with connections to some Ottoman, for example. Yeah. So Edward Edward Edward at the end is just desperate and the balance could totally swings very, very, very quickly and without almost any blood being spilled at all.

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• 44:19Speaker 01

  Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast. As businesses scale, success depends on how well knowledge is captured, shared and kept up to date. Camtasia Pro turns teams' expertise into engaging training, onboarding and documentation. No professional editing experience required. With the industry's best screen recording, video editing and AI-powered workflows, you can train faster and boost operational efficiency. Get over $100 off your first year at camtasia pro.com and start building a smarter way to educate customers, onboard employees and ensure valuable expertise is shared across teams.

• 45:08Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, I've wondered how much of the idea of actually deposing Edward comes from Roger rather than Isabella, because she's very clear that she kind of wants rid of Hugh Dispenser more than anything else. He is the straw that has broken the camel's back. He's personally abhorrent to her. Roger is in a position where, having escaped the Tower of London as a condemned traitor, if all he does is remove the Dispensers and help restore Edward to power, he's still kind of condemned to death. So is he the one with the vested interest in really deposing Edward more than Isabella?

• 45:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, and it's interesting, but he would be, yeah. But obviously, there are many other people with a similar vested interest. Technically, if you restore the king to his authority, you are risking that he actually regains power as he does in 1322 and everything goes wrong again. I think really Edward's reaction to being brought to heel probably seals his fate. He doesn't want to play ball. He stands on his reality. There are a variety of meetings in very late 1326, I think, and they obviously decide, the community of earls and barons together decide that, unprecedented though this is, we are going to have to take the step. We are going to have to try and remove the king, but not his line. So obviously,

• 46:21Speaker 04

  we've got Edward. We want Edward to be king because, you know, Edward is this bright new thing. He's not necessarily like Isob, but presumably, he was showing as a young man that he was nothing like his father. And so, obviously, they also knew that, you know, until he was going to be 1821, he wouldn't technically have royal power. So obviously, there are a variety of charges brought. The Parliament, well, they have a Parliament that's going to meet in January. But before then, there is this sort of propaganda publicity campaign in London. Everybody swears an oath of loyalty to the potential new king, to the queen and their cause. Edward, I think he's basically offered, you know, you either abdicate or we're going

• 47:03Speaker 04

  to depose you. And if we depose you, we're not going to have your son as king is kind of the threat. Now, what that would have meant, of course, I don't know, because obviously, you know, Edward's half brother, Thomas of Brotherton, is one of the party around the Queen. Is he the next heir? I don't know. I mean, he would technically, he would be the heir after, well, he wouldn't actually, John of Eltham would be, would have been the next heir as well. But then he's also Edward's brother. So he's Edward the second son as well. So you're taking Edward's line away. You could technically, I suppose, Thomas of Brotherton might have been a choice, but he doesn't come across as any kind of entity, really, ultimately. So I think they decide that this is what they're going to do. They kind of, I don't know, it's one of those, I don't know, well, how would you say it?

• 47:46Speaker 04

  Everybody swept along with it, with the exception of a couple of people. So the Archbishop William Melton and Hymatt High Bishop of Rochester, they are, they're not having it. They stay away. They will not swear an oath. I mean, William Melton, of course, is one of Edward's childhood advisers, friends. He is one of the most loyal men to Edward that he found. And they weren't going to have this. But ultimately, Parliament decides, Parliament decides the department. It's obviously, it's much more complicated process than we can talk about here. But it's, by the 20th of January, Edward, Edward is basically forced into a corner. He's at Kenilworth in prison. And he basically says, okay, look, fine. I will, I want my son to be king. And so within, you know, within 10, what is it,

• 48:30Speaker 04

  within 12 days, Edward is crowned as Edward the Third. And Edward the Second, in theory, goes into this retired king status, of course, has never happened before. And, you know, how that was ever going to be managed, nobody, nobody knows. But he becomes like a priest, so it just stays at Kenilworth, supposedly in stately confinement.

• 48:47Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, yeah. I want to get on to a little bit about Roger's role in the early reign of Edward the Third. But just to finish off the story of Edward the Second, how involved should we consider Roger to be in the, I don't know whether we have to say apparent death of Edward the Second?

• 49:02Speaker 04

  Hmm. Yeah. I mean, this is, this is a really tricky one. Because obviously, you know, for much of the last, what, 500 years, Roger Mortimer is the

• 49:16Speaker 04

  The architect of Edward the Second's murder at Berkeley Castle. You know, he is the one who gives the order. Chroniclers at the time say, you know, later chroniclers, you know, kind of give him the responsibility. There are obviously, there are others who actually do the deed, of course, but kind of Rogers, the man behind it. It's only recently, as of course you know, that a variety of historians have basically suggested that this, this isn't the case, that Edward did actually survive, that he lived, that Edward the Third knew that he lived, that they may have met possibly after his death. That of course would have been, well, some of that would have been after Rogers' own execution in 1330, but of course, some of it would have been while Roger was still alive. William Melton, who I mentioned earlier, there is a letter which purports to be in

• 49:59Speaker 04

  his name to the Mayor of London, Mayor and citizens of London, basically saying, if this is 1330, we know Edward's still alive, could you please provide money, boots, shoes? He's in a secure place. And it's difficult. The traditional narrative is now difficult to square with the new evidence. None of which, of course, actually negates the traditional argument. There is obviously only one, why only one is correct? You know, he may have been murdered or he wasn't murdered, but both narratives now have compelling arguments for them, but also questions that neither side can convincingly answer either way.

• 50:38Speaker 04

  Until evidence is found, until the actual smoking gun is found, which has not been found yet, your academic historians tend to stick to the traditional narrative because it's kind of the most logical one. Whereas obviously the new breed of historians who have researched this in a lot more detail, I will say, they have actually gone into the evidence in a lot more detail. They will not have the traditional narrative now. It can't, it can't stand. And never the twain shall meet.

• 51:07Matt Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Speaker 04

  And I am a classic fence sitter in this one.

• 51:10Matt Lewis?

  Good for you.

• 51:10Speaker 04

  You'll be pleased to know.

• 51:11Matt Lewis?

  But I guess we have to say, if Edward is executed, Roger has to be behind it. And if he's not executed, then Roger is just neglected to do that.

• 51:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, or as has been argued, Roger and Isabella have basically kept him alive as a puppet, as some kind of puppet to keep Edward III, his father, in their, in their pocket.

• 51:34Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:35Speaker 04

  Otherwise, why, why, why would they keep Edward alive, Edward the Second alive if it were to flush out rebellion against them, as it does with Edmund Earl of Kent, who is Edward the Second's half-brother and Edward III's uncle?

• 51:48Speaker 04

  Or to, you know, ultimately to keep Edward III enthralled, you know, we've got your father, Edward, you know, we will kill him if you don't do what we say, kind of narrative.

• 51:56Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, so having used Edward III against Edward II to get him to be deposed, it's possible you could use Edward II against Edward III to keep him in line, maybe.

• 52:05Speaker 04

  In theory, yeah.

• 52:06Matt Lewis?

  I guess just to finish off our chat about Roger, what does his time as effectively regent, he's close to the role of a regent, I guess, what does that period look like? Because you mentioned before, he ennobles himself.

• 52:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:20Matt Lewis?

  And he doesn't last all that long there. So what does it look like and why does it go wrong?

• 52:26Speaker 04

  I mean, the kind of the tragedy of it is, is that the, the campaign that Mortimer and Isabella lead from between thirteen twenty-three and thirteen twenty-six can be seen, and was seen, I think, at the time as a noble endeavour, you know, they are releasing the country from tyranny, they're bringing the crown back to its natural subjects. But of course, the worst excesses of the dispensary regime are then exceeded by the regime of Mortimer and Isabella. So you're right, I mean, he is kind of regent, but that's never a formal title, Mortimer is never like made keeper of the kingdom, Isabella isn't either, because obviously there is a king, there doesn't need to be, but there is, there is a regency council, kind of, or council, sorry, who are supposed to advise the young king, led by Henry of

• 53:11Speaker 04

  Lancaster, who is the, the brother, younger brother of Thomas, who is Edward the Second's great rival. So it's kind of supposed to be this kind of Lancastrian restoration, if you like. Mortimer is not, as far as we know, ever on that council. And of course, that leads then contemporaries and subsequent historians to Basically argue that both Mortimer and Isabella ran the country outside of this concilia agreement. But they basically had the king in their pocket, they had access to the, you know, the chancery, the treasury. They could enrich themselves and their friends. They were able to negotiate a peace with the Scots, which actually I think is probably a sensible piece, but

• 53:52Speaker 04

  Edward III certainly didn't like it at the time. Yeah, obviously that that enables, you know, Robert Bruce to settle his family as the royal, royal house of Scotland and resettled Scotland as an independent kingdom. And they basically then just enriched themselves and their friends. I mean, Roger Mortimer, as we said, he he isn't an Earl, but he's done enough to become an Earl, I think, probably, you know, in terms of what he's done for the the community in thirteen twenty seven. But it's not until October thirteen twenty eight that he becomes Earl of March. Now, Earl of March is interesting because, of course, there is an Earl of March in Scotland. But there's no Earl of March in England and in Wales, of course, and Wales and the marches. March has a different connotation.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  March in Scotland, there are some liberties there, but it's not quite the same. They're not quite of outside of the royal writ in the way that some of the Welsh martial lordships are. So to be called Earl of March suggests you are attempting to exercise authority over a much wider political, legal and cultural sphere than actually just if you say if he became Earl of Herefordshire or Earl of Gloucester or wherever it might be, Earl of Wigan.

• 55:00Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, it's a, it's a very amorphous region as well, isn't it? You know, it changes. There's no definition to what the march is. So it's kind of saying, I'm, I'm in charge of whatever I can lay claim to there.

• 55:09Speaker 04

  Exactly. And it's completely therefore, it's a, it's a title that the, the rest of the Earls don't, don't want, don't like. Of course, Edward the Third eventually is quite happy with it, you know, he actually never abolishes the Earl of March, weirdly. And so, you know, Roger's grandson, who, you know, is one of the great warriors of the thirteen forty, thirteen fifty, you know, alongside Edward at Cressy and that kind of thing. You know, he, the Earl of March is restored to him. It's not, you think most of these earls, you would keep, they'd be tainted, they'd go into a balance. But actually, you know, Edmund, Roger's son, is, he dies very early after, after his father is executed. And then he's rid his grandson, you know, they don't suffer the same penalty. Roger, the second Earl, you know, he, the Earl is restored to him. So Edward the Third has no issue with the. The old one eventually.

• 55:52Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, it feels a bit like Roger falls into the same sort of trap as Simon de Montfort of campaigning against corruption and then finding himself in power and suddenly becoming what he had campaigned against and making himself unpopular.

• 56:04Speaker 04

  I think so, but of course Isabella is exactly the same. You know, Isabella is not this background figure offering maternal advice and interceding with the king. She is front and centre. You know, they are holding a variety of tournaments all around the country. They are, you know, dressing up, potentially, maybe it's Arthur and Gruenewer, we're not sure, but they are certainly holding Arthurian tournaments all around the country, including Wigmore, actually. You know, there's one, there is one tournament at Wigmore in 1329 where, you know, the royal court decants to Wigmore and, you know, the king and the earl are exchanging gifts. It's a really interesting vignette into Mortimer's actual personal relationship with the king. You know, that this teenage boy is over there in Roger Mortimer's backyard and they're exchanging gifts and presumably Edward is, you know, is part of

• 56:49Speaker 04

  the jousting that goes on there. There aren't that many detailed descriptions of it, but yeah, it's a very interesting relationship that Mortimer and Edward must have had. I mean, obviously the chronic allegory, they talk about, you know, Mortimer never allowing the boy to have precedence when he should have done, you know, always rising above him, walking two paces ahead of him, speaking when he shouldn't do, speaking for the king, that kind of thing. It's a classic evil councillor henchman figure that he becomes. But, you know, the official records that we have here at the National Archives, they do give you a very rich picture of the acquisitiveness, the attention Mortimer himself gave to expanding

• 57:31Speaker 04

  his interests in the areas where he was already strong. You know, so he's taking, for example, all of the lands of the Earl of Arundel, who's one of his big rivals in the Marches of Wales, and getting liberty status for those lands. He has them as a status as earl in the same way that the Earl of Arundel had them, for example.

• 57:50Matt Lewis?

  So how does Roger end up then executed in 1330?

• 57:54Speaker 04

  Okay, so October thirteen thirty, there's a council meeting, Parliament in Nottingham. The royal family holed up in Nottingham Castle, which as you know, has subterranean passages. Now Edward III, basically advised by a chap called William Montague, decides that, look, this is it. We've got to, you know, I think it's something like, you know, eat the dog or we're going to be eaten kind of thing. They basically managed to engineer, they get, they get brought up through these subterranean passages into the Queen's Chamber. They bring a surprise on, on Mortimer and Isabella who are in the Queen's Chamber supposedly with some men having a council meeting, including the Bishop of Lincoln, and they are arrested. Almost immediately, then Mortimer and one of his sons and another man are carted off via Lancastrian lands to London,

• 58:38Speaker 04

  and they're sent to the Tower of London, and there is accounts from thirteen thirty two, two years after Mortimer's execution, which show that there were basically, the cell they were put in was not only in view from Edward's private apartments in the Tower, but they were also kind of walled up. They weren't going to escape this, he wasn't going to escape this time. They made a proper effort to ensure that the, that the cell would be secure. So the end of November, basically brought out, brought out of the tower to Parliament, tried before a full tribunal of his peers, not given the chance to answer, basically executed for, I think it was about a dozen different charges, taken then to Tyburn and hanged as a common criminal. He's not beheaded, not given that, that the same kind of dignity in execution that Thomas of Lancaster had in thirteen twenty two. Basically, you know, hanged like a common thief.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  And, you know, that's it, in theory, he's.

• 59:25Matt Lewis?

  It's kind of an ignominious end for a man with such a sparkling career who has achieved so much.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  It was so close personally to the king, Edward the same, that also potentially to his, to his son.

• 59:37Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, and just to finish on, what would you say is the most significant legacy of Roger Mortimer? I mean, I guess there's the legacy in terms of his family, but there's also the legacy in terms of being part of the first deposition of a king that, that becomes something bigger.

• 59:53Speaker 04

  They're the obvious two, obviously the legacy, the dynastic legacy which takes us, which is still with us today to some degree, but also, yeah, that deposition is the first post conquest deposition, so it's the first use of the law and parliament to depose a king. And that was, you know, you can't imagine just how difficult and just how, I imagine how traumatic that must have been for everybody, even Mortimer, who's the man engineering it. He's at the front and centre of it.

• 1:00:16Matt Lewis?

  A fascinating man and a fascinating career. So, thank you so much for joining us, Paul, to explore Roger Mortimer's life in greater detail. Thank you.

• 1:00:22Speaker 04

  My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

• 1:00:24Matt Lewis?

  Thanks, Paul.

• 1:00:28Matt Lewis?

  It is done. The king of twenty years is deposed. This is uncharted territory. We have a new king, the old king's son, who is more than a boy, but not yet a man. The queen has used Roger Mortimer like a sharp blade against her husband. But was this the end she played for? Edward is clear where he places the blame.

• 1:00:59Speaker 07

  Friends, will hateful Mortimer appoint no rest? When will the fury of his mind assuage? When will his heart be satisfied with blood? If mine will serve, unbowel straight this breast and give my heart to Isabel and him. It is the chiefest mark they level at.

• 1:01:19Matt Lewis?

  There is one person this outcome suits most. Roger Mortimer. He had burned his bridges with the king and has now set the whole land ablaze. As the smoke disperses, there he stands at the centre of power. Whether he shares a bed with the queen is unimportant. He does now share the power of the crown with her. He ennobles himself so that his complaints about corruption suddenly sound hollow.

• 1:01:52Matt Lewis?

  High ideas sound good. Few men can keep them when they come into contact with power. Isabella and Mortimer rule in the name of the young King Edward III. They have their victory, but will it prove fleeting? How long will the young lion strain at his chains before he breaks them? What will he make of those who cast his father aside? Can he be tamed? Or are we simply waiting for the next round of vengeance and bloodshed? The question we must answer is what kind of man King Edward III will be? It will not be long until we find out.

• 1:02:42Matt Lewis?

  I hope you've enjoyed getting to know Roger Mortimer a bit better. If you want to know more about this fascinating and medievally significant family, you can check out the Mortimer History Society's website at mortimerhistorysociety.org.uk. Maybe you can even join Paul and I as a member. Next time, we round off this special series by considering the young boy thrown into the centre of this mess, Edward III. How active was he? What impact did all of this have on a teenager who would become one of the most significant kings in English history? Find out next time. There are new instalments of Gone Medieval every Tuesday and Friday, so please come back and join Eleanor and I for more from the greatest millennium in human history.

• 1:03:26Matt Lewis?

  Don't forget to also subscribe or follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and tell all of your friends and family that you've gone medieval. You can sign up to History Hit to access hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a new release every week and all of History Hit's podcasts ad-free. Head to historyhit.com/subscribe right now. Anyway, I'd better let you go. I've been Matt Lewis and we've just gone medieval with History Hit.

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