20VC: Forerunner's Kirsten Green on The Biggest Challenges Scaling Both Teams and AUM, What Truly is High Performance in Fund Management & Why Parenting and Relationships are an Enabler To Your Best Work

Kirsten Green is the Founder and Managing Partner @ Forerunner Ventures, one of the leading firms of the last decade investing at the intersection of innovation and culture. As a founder, Kirsten has led efforts to raise over $2B+ from leading institutional investors and invest in more than 100 companies. She currently serves as a board member at Glossier, Ritual, Faire, Hims & Hers, and Curated, to name a few. She has also invested in other smash hits including Chime, Jet, Warby Parker, Hotel Tonight and many more. Due to her immense success, Kirsten has been honored in Time’s 100 Most Influential People and named a Top 20 Venture Capitalists by The New York Times in 2018 & 2017. Prior to Forerunner, Kirsten was an equity research analyst and investor at Banc of America Securities. In Today's Episode with Kirsten Green We Discuss: 1.) Entry in Venture at 40 and Founding Forerunner: How did Kirsten make her way into VC at 40 with the founding of Forerunner having never had a role in VC before? What did everyone tell Kirsten when she was looking to break into venture? What did she tell herself when she heard this? What does Kirsten believe she is running from? What does she believe she is running toward? 2.) Fund Management and Leadership: How does Kirsten define high-performance today? What are the nuances of high performance in fund management? How would Kirsten describe her leadership style today? How has it changed over time? What have been some of Kirsten's biggest lessons in terms of what it takes to retain quality with scaling AUM and teams? What have been Kirsten's biggest lessons when it comes to giving hard feedback with kindness? 3.) The Venture Landscape Today and Forerunner's Position: Why does Kirsten believe the venture landscape is more dynamic today than ever? Does Kirsten agree with the statement that venture is less collaborative than ever? Why did Kirsten and Forerunner seem to amend strategy and move into B2B? Why does Kirsten disagree with the delineation between B2C and B2B? 4.) Parenting, Relationships and Life: What have been Kirsten's biggest lessons since becoming a parent? How has it impacted her mindset? Does Kirsten agree that relationships attract from sheer input on work? How does Kirsten separate relationships into two kinds of relationships? What does success in marriage mean for Kirsten? How has she seen that in her own marriage?

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is 20 VC with me, Harry Stebbings. Now, our guest today was last on the show five years ago. Since they've had more hit investments than I've done podcast episodes, and they're also one of the most kind and genuine people in this business. I'm so proud to welcome back to the hot seat today Kirsten Green, founder and managing partner at Forerunner Ventures, one of the leading firms of the last decade, investing at the intersection of innovation and culture. As a founder, Kirsten has led efforts to raise over $2 billion from leading institutional investors and invest in more than 100 companies. She currently serves as a board member at Glossier, Ritual, Fair, Hims and Hers and Curated, to name a few. And she's also invested in other smash hits, including Chime, Jet, Warby Parker, Hotel Tonight, and many more.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  Due to her immense success, Kirsten's been named in Times 100 Most Influential People. That really must be quite a cool accolade. And today's show was a team effort. A huge thank you to Elliot Curated, Yuri Kim, Andy Dunn, Anu at YC, Jeremy Liu, Alfred Lin, my word, we do do our references, and more. And it really did make such a difference. So a huge thank you for that. But before we move into the episode today, Harvard Management Company is constantly seeking out the next generation of great investors and entrepreneurs. HMC has managed Harvard University's endowment for nearly 50 years and was one of the first institutional investors in venture capital. Their experience and long-term investment horizon made them ideal partners to get world-changing ideas on a path to viability and success.

• 1:22Speaker 00

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• 2:06Speaker 00

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• 2:48Speaker 00

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• 3:32Speaker 01

  You have now arrived at your destination.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Kirsten, I'm so excited for this. I can't believe it's been so long since our last episode, but thank you so much for joining me once again.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Harry, it's a delight to see you today and to catch up. And thank you so much for having me on. And before we started this recording, we did a two minutes of catch up, which started with, I don't know how many years ago, you were kind enough to invite me on your show. But I'm always intimidated to do a podcast. And I was intimidated to do your show back then. But this time, I mean, it's big time, Harry. You've gone big time. You've got a significant viewership and a lot of dedicated followers. So the stakes are high when you get a chance to be on the 20 VC Harry Stebbings Show.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  I mean, ego inflation will get you everywhere. So I thoroughly appreciate that.

• 4:17Harry Stebbings?

  For those that missed our first showcase, and tell me, how did you make your way into venture? How did you found For Honor? Quick two to three minutes.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Okay, gonna keep it quick, two to three minutes. We move on to other stuff. So I've been an investor for my career. I guess I was about 10 years into it and I realized that I needed more from my career and I could get more from my career. So I began a personal journey to kind of uncover what are my true motivations, where I think I could really imagine myself thriving. And that journey was one that I couldn't have planned for, but as it unfolded, I really kind of grabbed every opportunity to learn. And I'm glad that I allowed myself to be satisfied or to lean into that. It really was a journey. Ultimately, it became clear that early-stage investing really offered the things that I valued, which was operating at this intersection of qualitative and quantitative thinking.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  I, as a person, toggle between both of those for energy. I relish the opportunity or the chance to create or see be part of change and progress. This business is as much about people and relationships as anything, and I find that to be something worth spending time on.

• 5:23Harry Stebbings?

  I mean, I could not agree with you more there. I think relationships are everything. Speaking of which, I just spoke to Eduardo at Curated, who's one of your founders, and he said that you are one of the most creative people. I don't know if I'm allowed to share this, but he even mentioned you sewing your own wedding dress, which I thought was pretty awesome and amazing. But his question to you was, in terms of your creativity, how do you think it gives you an edge or an advantage investing?

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Creativity is pretty closely tied to curiosity. Curiosity is one of the most valuable characteristics that has the potential to lead you on fantastic journeys. I like to think I'm a curious person, and I think that's a really important characteristic in venture. Certainly part of the business that I really appreciate that I think I get energy from every day. Every day, getting a chance to meet new people, learn about their motivations, their business ideas, kick tires on that, work with founders that we're engaged with on long-term relationships, on topics that come up in the moment as their businesses are evolving and changing. You hope to develop a set of experiences and answers over time, but I find...

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Most of the better engagement, even the better advice sort of comes from that point of being curious, asking questions, probing and uncovering things over time. That in and of itself is a creative journey.

• 6:38Harry Stebbings?

  You mentioned your own curiosity leading you to venture and that personal journey that you went on. Jeremy Liu asked a really good one, which I've never asked before, but I thought it was so good I had to include it and credit to him. But he said, we're all a function of our histories. What parts of your history are you rebelling from? And what parts of your history are you running towards?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Gotta love the good philosophical question from Jeremy. My childhood really inspired a drive for independence and to create freedom to make choices. And I think that my career journey reflects that. One part, I valued the financial independence that work could offer from the earliest days. As I navigated my career, I appreciated the freedom that came from learning and from doing things more independently and on my own. There was a time when, I mentioned I spent my first 10 years investing and working. I worked for a firm. I was, I think, playing by their rules and doing well, or so I was told, and exceeding there. And the company entered into a merger agreement and my position was eliminated.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  The firm was good to me and said, we want to keep you, you can go wherever you want. But I loved the role I had and the job I had. And I thought to myself, gosh, I did everything I was supposed to. For no reason in any of my control, that job is no longer available to me. I think I really felt like I didn't want, as much as I could, for that to not happen again. And probably it was as impactful for me because I know how much of myself showed up in the time I was spending at work. My entrepreneurial bug was kind of rooted in that experience of wanting to have more of a role in my own destiny. I know, of course, that most things in life are out of our control. And certainly in venture, the lion's share of things are out of our control. So I don't profess to have necessarily been seeking control,

• 8:26Speaker 02

  but I do think seeking this ability to be independent and flexible is definitely something that, again, was inspired by childhood events. I guess on the running tours from my history, when I was As a teenager, I was sick. I had spinal meningitis, bacterial spinal meningitis, and I was in a coma for six days. It was a near-death experience. And I think on the other side of it, I really came out both questioning why I was alive and well, and also inspired to make the most of what I was doing here, at least for what my journey needed to look like or could look like. So I've been paying attention all along the way of how do I continue to grow and evolve as a person and make sure that I'm getting the most out of

• 9:08Speaker 02

  all of the learning that life has to offer. And that's an experience that I am running toward every day and probably even more deliberately as I age.

• 9:17Harry Stebbings?

  Can I ask a weird one? And again, this is where schedules kind of fly out the window. I've been thinking a little bit more now, like, I mean, I'm 26, and I will have spent the whole twenties to thirty decade, every single weekend in a recording studio on my own. And I think when I'm 50 or 60, will I regret that I spent the best 10 years of my life and my physical body in a recording studio on my own every weekend? And will I regret that? And I guess my question to you there is, how do you try and make the most out of every moment? And how do you think about your own relationship to regret?

• 9:46Speaker 02

  Oh, such a good question. Life is a series of choices. There are a multitude of doors that get opened. And for every, some ways for every door that gets opened, others get closed. And I think you just have to recognize that you made choices and get the most out of the choices that you make and appreciate what you got for that. I look and think like, I started this venture firm when I was 40. I wish I could have started at 30. What did I do while I was 30 to 40? You know what I did? I did a lot of journaling, a lot of painting, a lot of therapy, a lot of photography, writing classes. I did some investing, too. But I needed that experience to get here. Everything is a building block that contributes to your next journey and your next chapter. And I just think it's important to appreciate what that opportunity that created

• 10:29Speaker 02

  for you. And sure, there are things you're missing. You're spending every weekend in a recording studio, you're missing things, for sure. But hopefully, you're doing it consciously, and you're getting way more out of it than what you're missing. And we can't do everything. That's just the reality of life. It's the reality, you all make choices. And I'm a big believer And leaning into the choices that you make and trying to make the most of them and spending less time thinking about the things you didn't do. You can't change it.

• 10:54Harry Stebbings?

  We've mentioned Eddie a couple of times and you mentioned a little bit your childhood there. You mentioned kind of the financial independence. Eddie said in terms of founders, they have this fanaticism towards working with you. And he said, it's because you roll up your sleeves like no other and add value like no other, not in the founder friendly bullshit way. But like really move the needle for the companies. These were his words. He said that, and I hope this is okay, he wondered if it was maybe the insane drive because of a chip on a shoulder. Do you feel like you have a chip on your shoulder?

• 11:24Speaker 02

  I mean, yes, certainly.

• 11:26Harry Stebbings?

  Why? Also, why now? You've proved so much.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  There's always more to prove, Harry. For every person that looked at me while I was on this kind of, let's call it my thirties, my path of discovery and exploration, which started to become clearer and clearer that venture was a calling. And then it became like, okay, what's the right way to pursue venture? People would tell me I was nuts. I hadn't worked at a venture firm. I hadn't worked at tech. Did I know anybody in this industry? How would I make that happen? I let that get to me for a while. I looked around for a firm I could work at or a partner that had the right pedigree or experience. I also don't have an MBA. I don't have an ID League education. All those things I thought, okay, well, if I don't have them, I need to compliment myself to them to be valid for being here.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Thank goodness those things didn't come together because I think it was really important for me to realize that those weren't keys to success. Those are things that are valuable. I'm not discrediting their value to people, but they weren't the kind of roadblocks that I thought I needed to figure out some way around or to compliment myself. That was a chip on my shoulder in early days. I think venture is collaborative industry and I really appreciate that. It's also a competitive industry and I really appreciate that about it. Fires me up. I look around today and I think venture has gotten even more dynamic. Mature industry that is still innovating and thriving. That's what we should be doing because that's what we're investing in. There are more ways to do venture today than there ever have been before.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Firms of all different sizes, there's partnership. Of all different sizes, there's accelerators, there's incubators, there's people doing various stage investing, stage specific, there's all these different ways to do things. And I think that there's a lot of people that are successful that I look up to, that I'm constantly kind of trying to say like, how can we challenge ourselves to be competitive in that situation, better in that situation. And I guess that's just lifelong orientation that continues that I'm actually happy to have. So I continue to cultivate it or accept it.

• 13:26Harry Stebbings?

  You mentioned the competition there. It's funny, I spoke to Alfred Lim before the show and he said he's never met anyone who competes at such high level with such brilliance as you, but also does it with such elegance and grace. And I thought that was a great compliment. I do want to ask, you mentioned kind of the insecurity and people saying, oh, you can't do something, you can't do something. What do you tell yourself now when you question yourself? Like, I say to myself, there's winners and there's losers. Which one are you, Harry? And I go, I'm a winner, I'm a winner. When you question yourself, how do you mind talk yourself?

• 13:56Speaker 02

  I really try to go back to a place of being authentic. I think that every time I have tried to say, people in the room behave like this, I'll get more respect if I behave that way. I mess it up because I'm overthinking it or getting nervous as my words are unfolding because they're not coming from a place of real power. I try to remind myself that my strength comes from my authenticity. Sometimes that might expose that I don't have the answer to something, or I don't know something. And that's okay. Who knows everything? Again, back to the curiosity, if you're a curious person, you're continually learning. So you always know less than what you aspire to know. Kind of tapping

• 14:38Speaker 02

  into that power that comes from being real and being able to be vulnerable, saying, some people will judge you for that, but the right people won't. I don't need to attract everybody. I just need to be in line with people and things and ideas that I feel.

• 14:55Harry Stebbings?

  Represent you.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:57Harry Stebbings?

  As I for me, in the early days, I probably fucked up because I tried to be an investor that I wasn't. I tried to be analytical and numbers based and I can't count custom. So that was a completely futile Size. I totally agree with you there on finding.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Right. One of the things about venture and it being a kind of an ecosystem driven business and being a founder and thinking about the various investors that you bring along around the way is you can get like a council of experts. And the best ones have people who shine in different areas and complement each other. And the way to do that is to stand for something, is to be known for something, to have some way to contribute where people are like, oh, I would like Harry in the room with me because Harry's the one that always offers X, Y and Z. And that makes the conversation, the discussion richer. And particularly when I have this other person who knows A, B and C.

• 15:43Harry Stebbings?

  In terms of performance and high performance, I think a fascinating question is, what does high performance mean to you? If I say those words to you, what do you immediately think of and what resonates with you when I say high performance?

• 15:56Speaker 02

  Quality. And to me, quality is showing critical and thorough thinking in the work and the approach. And then results, knowing what excellence is and delivering that.

• 16:06Harry Stebbings?

  Can I ask, has that changed over time for you?

• 16:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 16:10Harry Stebbings?

  I've always known it. I like.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  In part because Harry, both of those, while quality and results, just on face value are simple concepts, if you really think about what they mean, and that's why I was kind of articulating a little bit, like thorough work, showing critical thinking and being holistic in how you're approaching something. That requires different depth and different scenarios and different situations. So it's not always operating the same way. It's just having the right approach for the particular challenge or opportunity that you're meeting. Same with results. Results as an investor could mean, I want to be in the top 5% of performance in my peer group for funds. That's one way to evaluate results.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  And the other way is, I want to be the most effective person in the boardroom. I want to be somebody who can contribute to making the conversation richer and the decision process better. Those are different areas, require very different ways of measuring results, but they both have a goal and an idea of what excellence is in mind.

• 17:06Harry Stebbings?

  A couple of things I have to dig in on. You said about kind of quality there. The thing I I think I think about a lot as I scale my investing practice is like, how do I retain quality with scaling of AUM, scaling of team, scaling of portfolio size? This is open for advice. I basically use the show as my own counselling session. How do you retain quality and scale all of those things? What have been your lessons on what can be done to do that?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  It's a great question and it's a topic that I in many ways am obsessed over. Forerunner is still a relatively small, tightly knit team. That's intentional. Our culture is very team oriented and it's very much kind of based in in another operating model I really value, which is to think about how you get something exponential. So how do you do one plus one and get something more than two? I think ambitious people, they need to be able to flex their own individuality and have room for their own wins. You think about having the desire to build a healthy team. You want to have a team approach, but you want to have the best in class people feeling like they have an opportunity to shine here. It really demands you to be focused on the process, the org development. What are those areas where people can flex their strength?

• 18:16Speaker 02

  And in so many ways, that is an entirely second job to being an investor. And it is one that gets more dynamic as the team grows. Our approach to that, to recognise that, to plan around that and to be bringing people on in a way that we can layer them in in honour of that. So it isn't going and hiring thirty people in one year and trying to figure out how to navigate that. I'm always in awe of the companies we work with and hiring hundreds of people a year and thinking about how to accomplish all of that inside an org.

• 18:45Harry Stebbings?

  You said about the importance of focus there. My word, I do switch topics from insecurities to investing focus. But in terms of focus, I I hope it's not too blunt. You had the most dominant brand in consumer. You owned it. You were one of the first there. I mean, stellar. And every consumer brand that I spoke to and consumer company wanted Forerunner. And then with the recent funds, you also said, hey, we're not only doing consumer, we're also going to do enterprise. And I just would love to understand, like, why did you decide that? What was the decision making process for doing it? And why did you think it was better to widen the aperture rather than stay very focused on consumer?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  I don't know, Harry, that I ever said we're only doing consumer investing. What was true in the earliest days of Foreigner and is still true today, the consumer is our North Star. It's where we seek our inspiration and it's our starting point for idea exploration, opportunity exploration. What's going on with people? How are their lives changing, their preferences, their needs, their wants, their expectations, their patterns, their behaviors? How the demographics changing, what's going on with the different age ranges? And then we think about how is that evolution that we're witnessing likely to impact business? And where are the areas of business that are either vulnerable because big change is coming that's fueled by the consumer?

• 20:04Speaker 02

  Or what are the areas of newness that arise because there's going to be a demand for it or a need for it? While some percentage of the of the economy is built off of consumer businesses and some of it is built off of business to business. All of it has a tide at the consumer because every business is in service of a user. So if you're a B to B business, you're still serving another business that ultimately is serving someone else. And somewhere in there, there's a consumer. So in some ways, the consumer is kind of the core of all of it. And so we use that as our starting point. And then we start thinking about, again, like, where are the opportunities in business? And follow that evolution. And we can do that from various different segments and we can do that within a segment.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  So for example, back to the earliest days, we did some companies have been called D to C companies now. But we think of them really more as just branded companies that leverage D to C as their go to market strategy as much as anything. Those were businesses that were reshaping the way that business traditionally was done. We're challenging the fundamentals of retail and wholesale models. And in the rise of those companies came a whole new set of needs and demands from a business tooling perspective. As we were partnering with those businesses and seeing what their opportunity set was and where they were being served and not served. We looked over and say, okay, the underserved parts of it, where is technology? Where's newness being developed and innovation being delivered? To service those needs and then we invested in those companies.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  We've always had a mix of B two B and B two C companies in our portfolios. The mixed shift has changed over time. The earliest fund had more of a focus on the consumer companies in large part because it was me and Yuri. And there's only so much two people can do and I'm a big believer in the power of doing fewer things better. So we stayed focused, but as we've grown as a team, we've been able to dedicate time and attention to learn about other areas. And that's taken us on this journey that continues to evolve. But there's no change in how we develop an investment thesis, where the start of it is and what our process is as a team. So getting back to like the firm thing, I don't really usually say this around entrepreneurs because I like to leave them with the glory of being the entrepreneur.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  But let's pretend for a minute foreigner is my, or let's just say for a minute foreigner is my own entrepreneurial journey. We have a vision for what opportunity we want to seize. It might be really big, but we got to start somewhere today, like every startup does. So where do you start to do a proof of concept? Where do you start to de-risk your model? Where do you start to show some of that early traction, the early KPIs, the early metrics that prove that you're on to something? And then as you do that, like what other opportunity can you unlock? And how do you set up a new set of standards or metrics for that and evolve it? That's what we've been doing. We went from having a really, again, like the big picture being consumer North Star, but saying, okay, we're going to do this one segment.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  We're going to do the evolution of e-commerce and then we're going to expand it into the B two B tools that serve that. And then when the early e-commerce on discretionary, early winners have been identified, we're going to move into like how that same trend is impacting financial products or healthcare products. And then once we do that, we'll see another set of tools, et cetera.

• 23:14Harry Stebbings?

  With firm scaling, what gets easier over time and what gets harder?

• 23:18Speaker 02

  So what gets easier over time is you have the benefit of experience and that can be leveraged. And I would say in general, by nature, our culture at Foreigner is humble. So we don't assume that we know everything or that we're the reason for everything, anything working right. But we do think that experience can help. Let's build confidence and conviction in both the investments that we're making and the conversations that we're engaging in around strategic decisions. As you grow and you have more of those experiences, you have more people on your team collecting those experiences. You definitely have a wider base of examples to draw from. So I do think that that if harnessed right, becomes a really a big advantage in terms of the confidence and conviction it allows you to act with.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  On the what gets harder, I think I'd probably double down a little bit on what I was sharing earlier about team. This culture being team oriented and winning together, but the more people you have, the more you're kind of also serving for those ambitious people and their own needs. To be recognized and to have successes and wins. It requires you to be, I think thoughtful and deliberate around your org development. How you create that opportunity for people while maintaining a tight knit culture. And that obviously gets more dynamic as the team grows. So that gets harder.

• 24:33Harry Stebbings?

  Bluntly, being an ambassador and being a fund manager is totally different and people often conflate the two. And there is so much that comes with fund management that I think people don't see. I do want to ask, you know, you mentioned it being your startup, which it totally is. How would you describe your leadership style? You've mentioned the team multiple times, you mentioned the culture. How would you describe your leadership style today? And actually, has it changed over time? Because I'm sure this one has done with experience and scale.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  I believe and I hope that I empower the people that I work with. I would love for Foreigner, I strive every day for Foreigner to be a place where people can do their best work. And feel that they're acknowledged and appreciated for it. And that part of doing your best work is being able to have some clear contributions that you make to the team. And some clear ways that you support your partners and your teammates. I encourage those and we celebrate those. I try to lead by example. I really love the work that I do. I don't think I could show up with as much energy and enthusiasm if I didn't authentically. And I think that that leadership style probably attracts people that feel similarly. I demand a lot of myself and I really do want to always feel like I'm putting my best foot forward.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  And I want the team to be putting their best foot forward. I empower people to do things on their own. I am not a micromanager. You can double check that with my teammates, but I do have clear ideas and preferences for like what a quality work product is, or what our reputation should be in the market and how we should stand up against it. So I think being clear about those things and hopefully demonstrating them myself at all times is a leadership trait that I hope I put forward.

• 26:11Harry Stebbings?

  In terms of that communication, I spoke to Annie at Y C before this, and she said you're on the fair board together. And she said you are one of the best she's ever worked with in terms of giving great and constructive feedback the right way, and that's sometimes hard to give. I'm really actually not very good at giving feedback. I'm British, and so we kind of don't really say much and just kind of bumble along. How do you think and advise me on what it takes to give hard feedback well and elegantly?

• 26:35Speaker 02

  When I'm in a position of giving hard feedback, I'm try to be really thoughtful in advance and plan my words relatively carefully. So for instance, the other day I had to send a note to give somebody some feedback, which also included an answer to a question that they didn't want. And I think I thought a lot about how do I create the right setup in this conversation for them to hear what I'm saying and to start to be able to accept it if they can't all the way accept it in that moment. So it's about being direct, but being respectful all the time, using your words wisely and not trying to say too much in one conversation.

• 27:10Harry Stebbings?

  Do you ever lose your, in the UK we'd say shit, but do you ever lose your temper? Do you ever get very angry? You have this incredible calmness. Do you ever lose your shit and how does that come out?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Well, I get frustrated, Harry, for sure. You know, I mean, come on, yes. But do I ever lose my shit and just, no, I don't think so. I mean, I'm pretty good at holding multiple feelings at once. It's something I've worked hard to cultivate throughout my personal life, which is being able to say, I'm really angry at this person. I'm really frustrated with how they're not showing up. But at the same time, I know that they're doing their best. And at the same time, I know that if they could grasp it, they would. So I think that that empathy creates room for you to not have the crazy flare up, but to be able to be more balanced in your approach to people and then feedback.

• 28:03Harry Stebbings?

  But when we spoke before, you just mentioned that your kind of high expectations on yourself. I have very high expectations for myself too. And I have this quite binary view of relationships, that relationships always detract from your workability. You can always spend more time working. That is kind of the view that I've held. When we chatted before, you gave a different view, which kind of made me change my mind in a way that I haven't changed my mind on for many years. So how do you respond to my statement there of like relationships detract? And do they or do they not actually?

• 28:34Speaker 02

  There are positive constructive relationships in the world that not only add, but enable or even make possible things that you want to do as a person. And I want to talk about that in a minute, but I also want to say that there are also unhealthy, not good relationships that do detract. Part of it is understanding what does a constructive relationship versus a destructive relationship look like for you and in your life? Knowing how to prioritize the constructive ones and surround yourself with those types of relationships and cultivate those types of relationships. But the example I was giving you was really specific. If I could draw up my perfect path, I would have liked to have gotten out of college, had a job or two, and then found venture early and started my venture firm at, I don't

• 29:17Speaker 02

  know, thirty and have success in the first 10 years and then be able to reap it for the next 10 years and then be able to have room for a whole nother career afterwards. But life doesn't work out that way. I think you have to be open to the journey. You have to kind of embrace what's unfolding in front of you and grab the opportunities as they come to make the most of them. For me, my path was not planned at all and I didn't come into venture until I was forty and it was shortly after the birth of my first child, which in so many ways was like the most inopportune time. In my thirties, I'd had relatively minimal responsibilities and I was doing painting and photography and thinking about like the meaning of life and what I wanted to do. And then I, for a lot of reasons, the timing, it became clear that the time

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Timing was right for Forerunner around the time I launched it. And that also, again, coincided with having a baby. And I wanted to, had not been easy to get pregnant and stay pregnant. I was really thrilled with the opportunity to be a mother. I'd already been married for 12 years by the time I had this baby. And I didn't want to shortchange that experience. But I also had worked so hard to find my right career path. And it was right here to have. My husband, who'd been my partner for a long time already and knew me well, was able to come say, I'm here to support this. I've been on prioritize my career for X amount of years. Like, you go do what you need to do. I understand that's going to mean less of this or less of that. And I can carry weight here. If I hadn't had a partner that had stepped up that way and had known what it meant to me and the value of that,

• 30:45Speaker 02

  I could not have been a good mother and started something that had potential to be successful at the same time. And that relationship really enabled that.

• 30:53Harry Stebbings?

  I love that. And as I said, like, that really changed what was quite a static mindset around it. Final one before we do a quick fire. Parenting is such a crucial role in anyone's life. Most important job you'll ever have. How did becoming a parent change how you think about investing and operating?

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Honestly, I will say, I think for me, it was really an unlock. It really were all a tapestry of different strengths and experiences that come together. So it's not just one thing. But for me, when I had my child, I really was motivated into making the most of every moment, recognizing that I had X amount of time with him, X amount of time for work, X amount of time for my marriage, for myself, you know, etc. I really needed to be present and to make the most of the time I had and to try hard. We're always multitasking. I'm also multitasking in the context of Forerunner. I think this job is a juggling act every day. But when I'm at work, I'm at work. I try really hard to be there and make sure that I'm being deliberate with my time and moving the ball up the field in a way that matters.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  And when I'm home with my kids, I try to really get down on the ground and play with them and be engaged. And I think that that motivation that stemmed from Reese becoming part of my life was something that has made every experience richer, is being present.

• 32:04Harry Stebbings?

  What was the biggest surprise about parenting?

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Hmm, well, parenting is a journey, Harry.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  The kid at 12 is very different than the baby at six months. And one child, I have a son and a daughter, they have so many similarities and they're also very different. Parenting is challenging with respect to one in a different way than it is with respect to another. Maybe a little bit like what we've been talking about, that's been a bit of a theme in this conversation. It's dynamic, unique, and it changes and evolves. And I think you have to be open to that journey. Parenting a baby is very different than parenting a tween.

• 32:37Harry Stebbings?

  I'm sure. I'm speaking from a complete lack of experience, but I think we've actually got a podcast for parents coming off the back of this with Kirsten and Harry. This is a great side gig that we could do. I want to move into my favorite Kirsten, which is a quick fire. So I say a short statement and you give me your immediate thoughts. Does that sound okay?

• 32:53Speaker 02

  Okay, let's do it.

• 32:54Harry Stebbings?

  So what's your biggest strength and what's your biggest weakness?

• 32:57Speaker 02

  My biggest strength is I'm an optimizer. I think I'm a pretty good strategic optimizer. My biggest weakness is, listen, I care so much. And that's not a weakness, that's a strength in life. But you have to make hard decisions every day. And I think that I am a person who likes to say yes, who likes to roll up their sleeves and helps, who aspires to have a way to support somebody. And ironically, I'm in the business of saying no. I'm literally in the business of saying no. How many times, like 5,000 deals last year and eight or 10 investments. I've gotten over that, but a lot of times, like having to give the hard feedback or having to give the hard answers weighs on me.

• 33:35Harry Stebbings?

  You should just join Tiger and then you can only say yes. So that's an old time thing. Some things you can edit out, the joys of podcasting. The question for me though, what's the most painful lesson you've learned that you're also super glad to have learned?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  One of my earliest investments before I had any successes, that was somewhat high profile, ended in just fabulous fashion in terms of just being a big blow up. And I really, really felt in my deepest core that like my career was over before it had started. But shortly thereafter, after some deep reflective thinking, someone that I respected reminded me or pointed out to me that I'd gained like real experience through that. Watching that unfold, being part of how that unfolded, taking action or not taking action. Like in all of that, I'd had some hard one lessons and this happened during oh eight and it had to do with how do you lower your burn? How do you reprioritize how you're going to show progress?

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Things that I think are on a lot of people's minds right now and I'm so incredibly grateful for that hard earned experience that is applicable, not just today, but very applicable today.

• 34:43Harry Stebbings?

  You can take one luxury to a desert island. What do you take, Kirsten?

• 34:47Speaker 02

  Harry, these rapid found questions are always the hardest for me. One luxury. Well, so this depends on what we consider to be a luxury. Sunscreen?

• 34:56Harry Stebbings?

  Sunscreen? Give me sunscreen. I want like a Chanel G12 watch and you're giving me sunscreen. That is pathetic.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Like, are we starting out with covering and food or what are we starting out with? I would like my iPhone.

• 35:09Harry Stebbings?

  Okay, I'll take that. I mean, you've got 12 hours of usage before it runs out and then you're screwed. But yeah, sure.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Oh, that's bad. You're right. Didn't think that far ahead. Journal, a journal, but you say a journal's not luxury, but if you're there, you have more time to think than you ever have in any other time. I'd like to write it down.

• 35:27Harry Stebbings?

  Tell me, what three traits would you most like your children to adopt?

• 35:30Speaker 02

  I would like my children to find resilience, curiosity and empathy.

• 35:36Harry Stebbings?

  What do you know now that you wish you'd known at the start of For Honor?

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Well, remember I started For Honor a little later after a lot of thought and deliberation. So it's not like I haven't had things pop up along the way that I had no idea about. But in some ways I thought through it a lot before I started and I knew how much work I was getting into. But it's really a long haul. It is a, every fund is a 10 year commitment at least. And I think really understanding that that is stacking up over time, what that commitment all entails.

• 36:07Harry Stebbings?

  Penultimate one, and I'm interested by this one. Alexis Ohanian asked this on Twitter when I tweeted about you coming on. He said, what would a man in VC take for granted that you've had to adapt to in order to build For Honor into a top firm?

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Wow, that's a good question. Well, I think that paying attention to how you're building your team is paramount. And I think this isn't just about hiring smart people or people who are willing to do what you tell them to do or whatever, whatever. But it is about understanding that in the best case scenario, you're attracting ambitious people who are being thoughtful about their career and want to leverage what you started or what you built for that end. And how do you do that in a way that balances the benefit of the firm and for them too? And I think some people do not appreciate the importance of that or the weight of that.

• 36:57Harry Stebbings?

  Final one for you. Next five years for you and for Forerunner. If we do this in 2027, where will we be then, Kirsten?

• 37:03Speaker 02

  I like 2022 better than I like 21. I think what's happening right now, I know, look at that surprise look.

• 37:10Harry Stebbings?

  Oh my God, I know, I'm like.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Is people are having really important conversations that really require them to understand their businesses and to understand the levers of their business, what it's going to take to really prove that they're on a path to something that has potential, that they are successful. And I believe that that is going to inspire better business building. I think we're in for some hard times, given the economic backdrop that we're going to be operating in here for the near term foreseeable future. But I think looking out past that, I think the upside is huge. I couldn't be more excited to have a really motivated team and a new fund and kind of the benefit of 10 years of experience, but the drive to take 10 years more, like that feels like wind in our sails.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  Five years, I think we're going to be talking about incredible companies that were built.

• 37:59Harry Stebbings?

  Kirsten, this has absolutely made my week. Seriously. Shows like this where we can have authentic discussions like at the beginning, move to investing, talk about parenting, this is why I love what I do. Honestly, it really is.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  That's why you're good at what you do, Harry. You inspire a good, authentic conversation.

• 38:16Harry Stebbings?

  But thank you for joining.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  You're right, and your editors are magical and they can make that sound good. Because.

• 38:21Harry Stebbings?

  Thank you so much for joining me. I loved it.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  Thank you, Harry, for having me. It was an honor to be here and really lovely to catch up with you.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  As I said at the beginning, Kirsten is one of the most kind, genuine and authentic people in this business. She's inspired so many with the forerunner journey. I want to thank Kirsten for being a great friend to me. Really does mean a lot to have her support and advice. But before we leave you today, Harvard Management Company is constantly seeking out the next generation of great investors and entrepreneurs. HMC has managed Harvard University's endowment for nearly 50 years and was one of the first institutional investors in venture capital. Their experience and long-term investment horizon made them ideal partners to get world-changing ideas on a path to viability and success. They work as a true partner, providing insightful perspectives to help managers succeed. I personally have had the pleasure of working with the HMC team and can say that they're truly

• 39:12Speaker 00

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• 41:01Harry Stebbings?

  As always, I so appreciate all the support and I cannot wait to bring you an incredible 20 product episode on Wednesday.