Caller: “Is My Husband Truly Done With Porn?”

📋 Weekly Rundown (your weekly marriage check-in) On today’s episode, we hear about: A woman worried her husband relapsed into his porn addiction A man struggling to find community in a new state A wife whose husband’s anxiety is killing their marriage Next Steps: 🔥⁠ Microhabits for a Better Marriage. Download the Together app. ❤️⁠ Get away with your spouse today!⁠ 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or⁠ send us a message⁠. 📚⁠ Building a Non-Anxious Life⁠ 📝⁠ Anxiety Test⁠ 📚⁠ Own Your Past, Change Your Future⁠ ❓⁠ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards⁠ 💭⁠ John's Free Guided Meditation⁠ 🤘🏼⁠ The Dr. John Delony Show Merch⁠ Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of⁠ BetterHelp⁠. Go to⁠ Capstone Wellness⁠ to learn more. Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at⁠ Cozy Earth⁠. Get 20% off when you join⁠ DeleteMe⁠. Visit⁠ Hallow⁠ for a 90-day free trial. Visit⁠ Helix Sleep⁠ for special offers! Go to⁠ Joi + Blokes⁠ and get 50% off labs and 20% off products. Working knives for working people—Go to⁠ Montana Knife Company⁠ to see what’s available now! Explore⁠ Poncho Outdoors⁠! Get 25% off your order at⁠ Thorne⁠. Visit⁠ Zander Insurance⁠ or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️⁠ The Ramsey Show⁠ 💸⁠ The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠ 🍸⁠ Smart Money Happy Hour⁠ 💰⁠ George Kamel⁠ 📈⁠ EntreLeadership⁠ ⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  How do I begin trusting my husband's recovery from addiction? He is struggling with pornography.

• 0:13Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  But it turns out that he's actually been addicted since he was about eight years old. And it's been something that's always in the back of my head, always.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, comedy from Nashville, Tennessee. Hope you're doing well. Hope the chaos in your life is the fun kind of chaos, not the, ah, man, kind of chaos. Whether it be your marriage, your mental and emotional health, your kids, your life, your money, whatever you've got going on in your life, I'm glad you're here. Pull up a seat and we're going to figure out what's the next right move for you and those you love and care about. If you want to be on the show, click the link in the show notes and Kelly will reach out. She'll holler back girl at you. And yes, she is.

• 1:04Speaker 00

  I ain't no holler back girl.

• 1:05Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I can confirm, can confirm. But I was gonna do a whole rant on Letter Kenny, the greatest show ever, but I won't. All right, so let's go out to Orlando, Florida and talk to Alyssa. What's up, Alyssa?

• 1:19Speaker 00

  Hi, Dr. John, how are you?

• 1:22Dr. John Delony?

  Doing awesome. How are you?

• 1:24Speaker 00

  I'm doing all right.

• 1:25Dr. John Delony?

  What's going on?

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Well, I'm, I am having a couple of issues that I was hoping you could help me work through.

• 1:33Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's dump the box out on the counter. Let's figure it out.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  All right. I wanted to ask you, how do I begin trusting my husband's recovery from addiction? And how do I know when my instinct that he's relapsed is worth a confrontation?

• 1:50Dr. John Delony?

  Ooh, two good questions. What's, what is the, let me write this down because I don't want to forget it. All right, so what's the addiction you're struggling with?

• 2:01Speaker 00

  He is struggling with pornography.

• 2:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Tell me about it.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  So I know that we had talked about this before we began dating. We've been together for five years now. And when we were kind of opening up to each other about, you know, our struggles and our issues, his issue with pornography came up and I thought it was something that had been passed. But it turns out that he's actually been addicted since he was about eight years old.

• 2:33Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  And it's really affecting our marriage. It's affected our entire relationship. I feel like this is something we, we have to discuss and here recently even argue over at least once a year, minimum.

• 2:50Dr. John Delony?

  Hmm.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  And it's been something that's always in the back of my head.

• 2:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Tell me.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  Always.

• 2:59Dr. John Delony?

  Um, take a breath with me for a second, okay?

• 3:02Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:03Dr. John Delony?

  You're good. I know that's, that's tough. Have you ever said that out loud to somebody else, not your husband, before?

• 3:07Speaker 00

  I have not.

• 3:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I can, I can feel it on you. Hear me say this, I'm glad you're here, okay, and you're not crazy.

• 3:14Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 3:16Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, so I'm gonna ask you some weird questions, or it might not make, just, just go with me on it, okay?

• 3:26Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:27Dr. John Delony?

  Um, is your core struggle, you hate pornography, you think it's gross, bad, wrong, evil, whatever word you want to attach to it? Or is it the catalyst for the, the person inside your marriage? You said it's really affecting your marriage.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Uh, I think it's the latter.

• 3:52Dr. John Delony?

  It could be both.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  Maybe a little bit of both. I know that it's not healthy and not good, but I feel like it's been taken to the extreme. And it's like he has this secret little life that I'm not a part of and I don't know where the ball stops rolling. Will he stop at pornography? Will he, he?

• 4:10Dr. John Delony?

  There you go.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  How do I know?

• 4:12Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And, and the reason I ask that question is I got, I got a sense from you, the way you posed that question. Um, beneath pornography, give me your, the, the real fears you have. Is it the type of pornography? Is it the, um, the financial cost? Is it the lack of intimacy? Is it you can, you can just tell because his eyes are glazed over and he's disconnected from you? Like, give me a rundown of like what your deepest fears and experiences are.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  I mean, it's been a little bit of all of the above. I mean, there's been times where we've gone two months without sex at all and it didn't seem to really bother him. It didn't seem like he noticed. And that was really hard for me. It makes me feel rejected constantly, especially when, you know, I'm, I tried to initiate and he's not interested. And because I, I don't know, I don't know what he's looking at and it's been really hard for him to talk about. So I can't be that or try to fill that gap. And I feel shut out.

• 5:25Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And this is, man.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:30Dr. John Delony?

  When you get off this call, it, it'll be a challenging listen. Um, Theo Vaughn, the, the comedian and podcaster lives here in Nashville, and he just put out an extraordinary interview on his show with a guy named Steve Wolt, W-O-L-T, I believe. And he's the founder of Valor Pornography Recovery. But it is an extraordinary interview. And two guys talking at length and depth about the, all of the madness that is pornography that's just got its chains around you. But I think it's an enlightening interview and, and man, he probably won't, but your

• 6:15Dr. John Delony?

  husband needs to hear it more than anything.

• 6:18Speaker 00

  I think I'd be able to get him to listen.

• 6:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, and obviously, if you know Theo, I, as a person, I love him. I mean, as a comic, I love him, but it's, it's always not, he's, it's not a clean show. Um, and, but it's definitely, if you know anybody struggling pornography, it's a really powerful, powerful listen.

• 6:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:40Dr. John Delony?

  So, um, and here's why I tell you that. One of the key components that's hard for spouses to hear is your rejection is very real. And his usage of pornography may have nothing to do with you, which almost makes it worse, right?

• 7:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can't decide.

• 7:04Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, right. And I, dude, I've heard that a thousand times. Like, I, I don't know which one is worse, which is if there's some sort of deficiency in me or in our sex, then maybe that gives me a path to something I can fix and repair, which are both, I don't like those words in this, in this moment, but that's where our thinking goes. Or, oh, you just don't need me. You don't want me. Like, you want that or you have to have, right? And so here, here's the thing for him, um, let me back out. What have y'all tried?

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Um, we've tried, you know, VPNs and blockers and things like that. We've tried keeping an open discussion about it. And he'll do really great for a while. And I know that he feels ashamed of himself. And I, I do feel like he, he wants to try, but I've gotten to the point where I don't really believe what he tells me. Because I can check in and I can ask, you know, are you doing? And it's a really difficult topic to bring up because I feel like every time I bring it up, I'm setting him backwards.

• 8:14Dr. John Delony?

  The fact that just talking with him about, your husband about it, quote unquote, is a confrontation, is a setback, tells me there's been zero healing. There's been some, there's been some white knuckling and scratching and clawing to not do a thing, but not to address the issues underneath the pornography.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:39Dr. John Delony?

  Do you know what I'm saying?

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can see that.

• 8:42Dr. John Delony?

  And so he's at a point now where the VPN stuff and all, like checking your history and the, the conversations that turn flashpoint and turn into World War III and will you never? And why don't you? And all of that is unhelpful at this point. He's got to go to a recovery program, especially he's been dealing with this since he was eight years old.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:04Dr. John Delony?

  He has to go to a recovery program and I, I would steer clear of a, of a weekend church retreat. He needs to go to a recovery program. Whether it's Valor, whether it's SA, whether it's some where he gets in a room with other men and is able to exhale and tell his story and hear other men tell their stories.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:25Dr. John Delony?

  Because the shame is gonna kill him.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I see that in him.

• 9:31Dr. John Delony?

  Shame, this is a Brene Brown quote, but shame eats secrets for breakfast. That's what it, that's the gasoline shame runs on a secrecy.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 9:43Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, you feel it too.

• 9:51Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Maybe a little bit, not in him.

• 9:56Dr. John Delony?

  No, well, you can, you

• 10:04Dr. John Delony?

  you're gonna have to be able to say, I don't respect you.

• 10:10Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have to be able to say out loud,

• 10:14Dr. John Delony?

  I'm, I'm worth more than coming second place to your addiction.

• 10:20Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have to say, I want sex and intimacy in my marriage. I don't want that outsourced. And I don't want to feel weird or wrong or whatever

• 10:32Dr. John Delony?

  for wanting to be with my husband.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:37Dr. John Delony?

  Until you can say what you want out loud,

• 10:43Dr. John Delony?

  it's gonna continue to be this weird figure eight cat and mouse game of who's trying to avoid who.

• 10:52Dr. John Delony?

  And then once a year, that figure eight meets in the middle and there's a big explosion. And then you all go, you go to your each individual corners for the next 11 and a half months.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  I feel like these are some of the things that I've, I've brought up to him before. And like I said, we'll have a really good discussion. He'll know exactly where my head's at. I thought that maybe I knew where he was at.

• 11:22Dr. John Delony?

  So here

• 11:22Speaker 00

  And then we'll be doing good.

• 11:24Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  And then something happens and he knows that stress is what brings him back. So I try to eliminate stressors for him where I can.

• 11:34Dr. John Delony?

  Alyssa, Alyssa, Alyssa, let's take pornography off the table. Cause it's tied into relation, relationality and it's tied into intimacy. It's tied into identity and self-worth and all that sexuality. It's got so much baggage. So let me use another addiction, okay?

• 11:51Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 11:52Dr. John Delony?

  You can't make him not drink.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:56Dr. John Delony?

  The only person you can control is you.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:02Dr. John Delony?

  And what does that mean? That means you say, you cannot be in this home with me and your baby. If you've been drinking, period.

• 12:14Dr. John Delony?

  You, you can't play defense on stress for the rest of his life.

• 12:20Dr. John Delony?

  That's work that he has to choose to do for himself and for you. And for God's sakes, that little baby.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:31Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:37Dr. John Delony?

  Cause you're exhausted.

• 12:41Dr. John Delony?

  And so the conversations have to turn at some point to, oh, I think I know where he is. And he kind of knows where I am. And it has to be, here is what is going to be true in my home. Cause I'm worth this.

• 12:55Dr. John Delony?

  And here's what I'm going to do next.

• 13:03Dr. John Delony?

  Cause right now he gets to have one uncomfortable month, a couple of uncomfortable check-ins a year. And then he can not have the pain of having to change his life.

• 13:17Dr. John Delony?

  And your fear is about, is he gonna stop here? Is he gonna click on the wrong thing and send him down the wrong rabbit trail? He's gonna end up in a real, real big mess?

• 13:29Dr. John Delony?

  Is he gonna meet up with some, all those fears are very, very valid and real.

• 13:38Dr. John Delony?

  And so the original two questions you asked me, number one is, how do I learn to trust? You put a very clear path in front of him.

• 13:50Dr. John Delony?

  And he gets to choose to walk that path or not.

• 13:54Dr. John Delony?

  And that's not you running around like a mom trying to clear the deck for him.

• 14:01Dr. John Delony?

  And how do you know if you're, if in your intuition is worth a confrontation?

• 14:10Dr. John Delony?

  Man, checking in on somebody you care about and love, and y'all have a shared goal and they're working to get well? That's never a confrontation.

• 14:19Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying? The fact that the way, the way you label it as a confrontation is, tells me he's not putting the work in.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, sometimes I wish that I could just roll with it and ignore some of the signs that I see.

• 14:39Dr. John Delony?

  You can't.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  I don't want that.

• 14:41Dr. John Delony?

  It's not being honest to yourself. That's not being honest to him. That's not being honest to that baby.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  No.

• 14:50Dr. John Delony?

  Did you take care of somebody growing up? Was it your job to take care of the adults in your life growing up?

• 14:56Speaker 00

  Uh, not so much the adults. I had brothers. Little brothers.

• 15:00Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 15:02Dr. John Delony?

  But I mean, was it your job to make sure they were behaved so mom and dad didn't get mad?

• 15:08Speaker 00

  It was.

• 15:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 15:12Dr. John Delony?

  I want you, for the first time in your life, to care about your spirit, to care about your insides, to care about what you need and what you, more importantly, what you want.

• 15:24Dr. John Delony?

  For the first time, you've been caring for every other adult in your life, for your whole life. And it's exhausting. You're gonna crash under the weight.

• 15:31Dr. John Delony?

  Or here's what's, you're gonna become somebody that you don't want to become, right?

• 15:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I see that.

• 15:39Dr. John Delony?

  You become bitter, you become resentful, you, somebody at work is gonna tell you that they think you're great and wonderful. And you're gonna be like, dude, I haven't heard that in four freaking years. You're gonna become somebody you don't want to become.

• 15:52Dr. John Delony?

  And so when anyone comes to me with a challenge like this in their marriage, the question I always ask him is, who do you want to be in your marriage? And what must be true for that to take place?

• 16:12Speaker 00

  I think,

• 16:18Speaker 00

  I think I just want to be secure and steady. I, I don't want our son to see

• 16:26Speaker 00

  or have any kind of fear that, you know, mom and dad aren't doing good.

• 16:30Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but you're not doing good.

• 16:35Speaker 00

  No.

• 16:36Dr. John Delony?

  Right. And so we also don't want our son growing up feeling that cognitive dissonance, says, I know my house doesn't feel connected. My house doesn't feel safe, but all the adults are smiling. I must be crazy.

• 16:50Dr. John Delony?

  And here's what that will do. He'll find some vice to quiet that gap.

• 16:57Dr. John Delony?

  And this, and this family trauma will roll downhill.

• 17:02Dr. John Delony?

  Onto the next generation.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  Let that happen.

• 17:04Dr. John Delony?

  There you go.

• 17:08Dr. John Delony?

  At some point, you're gonna have to write down on paper and look at it and weep over it. But you're gonna have to write down an or what statement.

• 17:19Dr. John Delony?

  You become a, you become a partner of fidelity, of integrity. You put me in this marriage first before all other things, including your pride, including your ego, including your addictions. Or what?

• 17:37Speaker 00

  I've tried to write that statement a lot.

• 17:38Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I know. It's a scary thing to put on paper because it makes it really, really real.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:49Dr. John Delony?

  But we're, we're way past VPN blockers and

• 17:55Dr. John Delony?

  weekly history deletes. Thank you so, so much for the call. Thanks for wading through the shame and the embarrassment and just the discomfort of all of it and saying, help.

• 18:08Dr. John Delony?

  It was an honor to sit with you, but hear me say, you're worth more than that. You're worth more than this, and so is he.

• 18:14Dr. John Delony?

  For any men out there struggling with pornography, especially as an addiction on that, listen to the interviews with, um, I wrote it down here. It's, yeah, Steve Wolt, W O L T, and Theo Vaughn. It's a powerful discussion and, um,

• 18:36Dr. John Delony?

  If it's time to go seek treatment, go seek treatment. It's embarrassing and shameful on this side. It is freeing on the other side. And you and everybody in your life is worth it.

• 18:48Dr. John Delony?

  When we come back, a man asks how to cope with homesickness, financial struggles and addiction after moving states. We'll be right back.

• 18:57Dr. John Delony?

  This drives me bonkers, but our culture has made being exhausted something to be proud of. Right? People brag about how busy they are, how little sleep they get and how exhausted they always feel. Listen, being exhausted is not a flex. You know what's a flex? Getting good sleep and good sleep starts with a great mattress. And that's why I love my mattress from Helix Sleep. Helix is not just a show sponsor for me. Helix is where I sleep. My kids sleep on Helix. Even my extended family members and friends, they're all getting Helix mattresses now because I won't shut up about them in my private life. When the microphones and the lights are off, I'm still talking about Helix mattresses

• 19:40Dr. John Delony?

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• 20:23Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, it's Deloney for Hallow. What could you accomplish in 90 days? You know, you could get in shape, you could lose weight, you could change your marriage, you could play games with your kids and change your relationship with them. You could do so much in 90 days. And that's why I want you to try Hallow for 90 days. Hallow is the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world, and it's one of the most important things I do to start almost every single day. Anchoring myself in my faith helps me slow down and prioritize what actually matters to me before the world goes bonkers. And Hallow will give you 90 days for free for you to do the same. You can build a habit of reflection, a habit of slowing down and a habit of prayer. Hallow is simple and guided and it meets you where

• 21:06Dr. John Delony?

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• 21:36Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go to Phoenix, Arizona. It's probably eight million degrees there today and talk to Vincent. Hey Vincent, what's up?

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's pretty brutal. So my, my question, I'll just, I'll just ask the question upfront. So how can I cope with homesickness, financial struggles and being in addiction and recovery?

• 22:03Speaker 02

  When I move states?

• 22:07Speaker 02

  And I can give you a little backstory on that.

• 22:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, that's all, that's a lot all in a row.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, tell us what's going on, man.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, so my, I'm married. My wife and I, we, we were together for five years before we got married. And we got, we've been married for, it'll be two years in July.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  While we were dating, I noticed, you know, how much she would be affected by the darker winter months. We were living in Washington state at the time. So, so she, it was clear to me that she had, you know, like severe seasonal affective disorder. You know, we tried a bunch of those, you know, having all those lights that imitate the sun.

• 23:03Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  We tried like glasses that shine that light directly into your eyeball.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  You know, which I don't know if that was, if that's a good thing to try or not.

• 23:16Dr. John Delony?

  Try anything, try anything that works. But so you all ended up moving?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So we moved to, she, we moved to Arizona. We ended up moving to Arizona. She, you know, she just laid it out for me. She said, I love you. I want to be with you, but I just, I can't live in Washington anymore.

• 23:39Dr. John Delony?

  And you said, I love you too. Let's go.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  I'm, it was, it was a huge moment for me. I mean, I've lived, you know, I've lived in, in Washington my whole life. It's where most of my family is. You know, I had a job that I loved. She's from, she's from another country.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  And, you know, my family loves her and like did their best to make her feel loved. But yeah, I mean, ultimately I said, okay, I'm in, you know, like the career move was the biggest challenge. Like I worked, you know, I worked at like a very high luxury resort and I was making good money, but I felt stagnant there. So like, I kind of thought of this as, okay, well, this will be an opportunity for me to change careers, you know, and, you know, when we make this move to Arizona. I'm sorry. Enrolled in real estate school,

• 24:41Speaker 02

  got, you know, got the 90 hours of education, flew down there, passed the exams and got licensed. And then during this time, we also had a baby. And, but.

• 24:56Dr. John Delony?

  What, what, what addiction are you struggling with?

• 25:02Speaker 02

  So I've always struggled with opiate use disorder. It was, you know.

• 25:10Dr. John Delony?

  Is that a clinical diagnosis or is that you reading about it on the internet?

• 25:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's the clinical diagnosis.

• 25:22Dr. John Delony?

  You struggle with opiates for a long, long time?

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So bring me to right now, because right now you have a whole bunch of change all at once. And I'm guessing it's not all going well?

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, a lot's happened in the last six months. I mean,

• 25:47Speaker 02

  I, so we moved to Arizona. I was, I joined up with the real estate team.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  And

• 25:57Speaker 02

  like I just, I just felt so lost and depressed there in Arizona. And like I had no family, no friends and, you know, like no, like recovery system and.

• 26:17Dr. John Delony?

  But just like moving to a new town and getting a new place and having to call and turn the, the lights on and the water on and get the internet set up.

• 26:26Dr. John Delony?

  Part of packing up and moving across the country, and I know this because I've done it. You move across the country, part of moving into a brand new system where you know nobody is I gotta go

• 26:40Dr. John Delony?

  meet a gang. I gotta go meet friends. I gotta go to a local church. I gotta get into my recovery group. I gotta invite some people out to lunch for a season.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I know I need to do that. It's, I don't know. I'm just, I'm just an isolator. It's, it's, I'm, I'm an introverted and.

• 27:03Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but it's killing you, brother.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  I know.

• 27:10Dr. John Delony?

  The first thing you have to do before you try to tackle any of these other big issues

• 27:16Dr. John Delony?

  is you have to get plugged into a recovery group ASAP. You gotta, you gotta be clean.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:25Dr. John Delony?

  Nothing else matters right now other than sobriety.

• 27:31Dr. John Delony?

  And as a self-admitted isolator, super introvert in a brand new place with no community, those demons are going to come screaming at you and clawing your skin off your body. Right?

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, they did.

• 27:46Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So you, none of this other stuff can happen if you're not sober.

• 27:52Dr. John Delony?

  You can't be the dad you want. You can't be the husband you want. You can't think clearly about a brand new job in a really difficult time to start being a realtor. And by the way, there's a million amazing resorts in Phoenix.

• 28:07Dr. John Delony?

  Like there's, what I'm trying to tell you is there's other options. You can't see or feel or experience any of those other things if you're not clean.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  It's, you know, like, it's just, I, I don't want you to, I don't want, I don't, I'm, I don't want you to think that I am, you know, like, I was so happy when I was in Washington. Like I was doing really good. And I've been on, I've been on like,

• 28:46Speaker 02

  you know, I've been on like medication assisted treatment for the past like five years.

• 28:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  And I, and it's not a solution. I know that. But, or I mean, it is a solution, but it's not the solution that I want. You know, like, because it's just another way for me to cope.

• 29:06Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  And.

• 29:10Dr. John Delony?

  I want that for you too. But here's what, here's what has happened.

• 29:16Dr. John Delony?

  You made, and I'll say you alone, because I want you, I want you to hold it. Okay? You made a humongous decision.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:27Dr. John Delony?

  And you made it with and for somebody that you looked in the, her eyes and said, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with you, ride or die till death do us part.

• 29:38Dr. John Delony?

  And then you got there and you took one foot out of that boat and you put it back in the, in the other place.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:51Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 29:53Dr. John Delony?

  And so you haven't given your full place a chance. I promise you, you're romanticizing parts of your past.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:05Dr. John Delony?

  It, it, you did have friends, you did have family, you did have community. Your life would be bonkers right now as a newlywed with a new baby in a job either you hate and felt was dead in, or starting a brand new job if you'd gotten your real estate license in Washington.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:24Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So the compounding factors here are,

• 30:29Dr. John Delony?

  I've managed sobriety chemically, pharmacologically over the last five years.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:37Dr. John Delony?

  And I lost that support system and either I haven't gone to renew it or to reestablish it in my new place. It, there's just a lot going on, man. And I just, when it feels like a lot, it's good to take things one at a time. You gotta get into some recovery care.

• 30:58Dr. John Delony?

  And opiate addiction is,

• 31:01Dr. John Delony?

  by all accounts, the gnarliest, hardest, scariest one.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So you got a, you got a hellacious journey ahead of you. You're worth that fight. So is your wife. So is this little baby y'all have.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 31:22Dr. John Delony?

  And the second thing is you gotta get some little wins financially.

• 31:27Dr. John Delony?

  And so completely emptying out your old basket and putting all of your eggs in this brand new basket, in this brand new market, in this brand new job that is almost entirely relationship based.

• 31:41Dr. John Delony?

  As an isolator and an introvert, it was a pretty, pretty raw move, right?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:48Dr. John Delony?

  So give yourself some grace. I tried a thing, it didn't work. Or it's gonna take a long, long time to set up.

• 31:56Dr. John Delony?

  And I gotta go make some money. I need some little wins, both for my spirit, for myself, and for like food and bills.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:10Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:14Dr. John Delony?

  I gotta get up and go for a walk in the morning before it turns into a thousand degrees. I gotta get some sunshine on my body.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:27Dr. John Delony?

  And I hate to tell you this, brother, not one person can do these things for you.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:33Dr. John Delony?

  There's many people that will do them with you, but you have to decide you're worth more than this that you got right now. Fair?

• 32:42Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah.

• 32:44Dr. John Delony?

  Ah, you just dismissed me on that one.

• 32:48Dr. John Delony?

  Do you not believe you're worth the fight?

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Not, I don't feel that right now. No, I don't.

• 32:59Dr. John Delony?

  That's fair.

• 33:04Dr. John Delony?

  I'll sit, I'll sit here with you.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  I have, I feel a lot of guilt.

• 33:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  About moving.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  Like, I mean, there's, there's so much I feel guilty about and,

• 33:21Speaker 02

  you know, like,

• 33:23Speaker 02

  I, I just feel like I took, I feel like I took my grandson away, or my, you know, my dad. I took my, sorry, I'm, I'm just nervous.

• 33:34Dr. John Delony?

  No, you're good, man.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  But, you know, like I just, I feel like I broke up my family by moving, moving to Arizona.

• 33:47Dr. John Delony?

  You can, you can choose to see it that way, that you broke up your family. You can choose to see it as you expanded your family.

• 33:55Dr. John Delony?

  You can choose to see it as me and my new wife went on an adventure for two years, five years, seven years.

• 34:02Dr. John Delony?

  You can look at it in any number of ways.

• 34:07Dr. John Delony?

  But right now, everything you look at and see and feel is so clouded

• 34:15Dr. John Delony?

  with either use or your body just screaming and clawing at you.

• 34:25Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:27Dr. John Delony?

  Give me six months of recovery, of sobriety, of you going to meetings and going to see a doctor. And give me six months of you working a job or two,

• 34:41Dr. John Delony?

  where you're actually getting a paycheck.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:44Dr. John Delony?

  And then if you look at your wife and say, hey, I made a promise to you that we would move here.

• 34:50Dr. John Delony?

  And in the same way that the Northwest was killing you, this is killing me.

• 34:58Dr. John Delony?

  And so I want us to make a plan together that maybe going all the way to the other side of the country was too far.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:10Dr. John Delony?

  And let's see if we can come to like, right? So it's, we're gonna do those things, but we're gonna do them in the right order, man. Cause here's what's gonna happen. You, you go back on what you said

• 35:23Dr. John Delony?

  without going fully all in on it.

• 35:28Dr. John Delony?

  And you romanticize the past and you run back to it.

• 35:34Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna have guilt there because you're gonna go with you. And your guilt will move to another story, to another person you think you're hurting, another person you don't think you kept your word with, and another person you break. You see what I'm saying? You're gonna go with you wherever you move. That's why I want you with your feet on the ground in Phoenix, Arizona, to say, I'm gonna work on getting well now. For me, for my wife, and for my kid. And I don't feel it. I honor that feeling, brother. I'm sitting here, right here with you. I'm not gonna try to change your feelings.

• 36:06Dr. John Delony?

  But I do want you to take the next right action, even though you don't feel it. Okay?

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 36:13Dr. John Delony?

  I'm telling you, I love you and you're worth it.

• 36:18Dr. John Delony?

  And so when you don't feel it, remember me saying that.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 36:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 36:27Dr. John Delony?

  And I haven't told anybody this publicly. After being here, moving away from my friends and my family of four decades to Tennessee, within 18 months, I was looking at jobs again back at my home state.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:45Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm glad I did. And I have a whole new world, a whole new system, a whole new group of friends, a whole new everything, man.

• 36:53Dr. John Delony?

  And that's not everybody's story. That's fine. It may be that y'all end up maybe not going back to Washington, but maybe going halfway.

• 37:00Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe going to Utah where it's sunny all the time.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:02Dr. John Delony?

  And it's just a, a long drive. Who knows, man? But that's not for today. Today is,

• 37:09Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna go stare this dragon down once and for all. And I'm gonna get a group. And we're gonna walk right through it together. I'm gonna go to meetings I'm not gonna miss. I'm gonna go see a physician I'm not gonna miss.

• 37:25Dr. John Delony?

  This isn't gonna help you with that level of recovery, but I'm gonna give you three months of BetterHelp for free. So you have somebody to talk to today. That's not gonna cost you any money. Okay?

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 37:38Dr. John Delony?

  Just a licensed therapist. As soon as we're done here, I want you to take the, the code that you're gonna get. And I want you to make an appointment and they'll see you within the next 24 hours. Okay? Cause I'm worried about you. Okay?

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 37:54Dr. John Delony?

  I believe in you, brother. Okay? Even when you don't, I do.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  I appreciate it.

• 38:01Dr. John Delony?

  And you got a wife and a baby. And so you don't have a lot of other choices, right? We gotta make this work. We gotta make this work.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  I know.

• 38:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  I know. I know.

• 38:13Dr. John Delony?

  But making this thing work is not about homesickness or financial struggles. Financials, I mean, it's a reality to, we need money for bills and food. But it's not about guilt or, it's about, I gotta get clean. Step one, I gotta get sober.

• 38:29Dr. John Delony?

  And then we're gonna start plowing through these issues one at a time. But I want you to give me six months of sobriety and six months of working two jobs.

• 38:38Dr. John Delony?

  Stand up a little bit taller. Six months of going to meetings every day. And then we'll have some clearer eyes on whether Arizona's a place that you guys can build a new family, build a new world. Maybe get your parents out of that Northwest dreariness. Or we're gonna, we're gonna consider moving in the next year or two.

• 39:02Dr. John Delony?

  Thanks for the call, brother. It's been an honor to talk to you. I believe in you, man. Remember that. When you don't feel like it, remember I believe in you. We come back, a woman asks how to help her husband manage his stress about money when it affects everything in their marriage. Whew, I've been there. We'll be right back.

• 39:21Dr. John Delony?

  All right, here's something I've learned over the years of sitting across from young men who are struggling with trauma, addiction, mental health challenges, or other destructive behaviors. When I would send them out to therapy, I often found that one 15-minute session a week might not be enough to turn things around. This is where my friends at Capstone can help, to make real progress and practice actually living differently. Sometimes, young men need a totally new environment to get the support and help they need. Capstone Treatment Center is a long-term residential program for struggling men ages 14 to 28. It's a structured environment with trained, licensed clinicians who follow a strict code of ethics.

• 40:03Dr. John Delony?

  And healing at Capstone is not something that just gets crammed into a single room. It's woven into every part of every day. Young men need to practice responsibility, they need to practice care, and they also need to practice being loved. That's why the support is so amazing here, and every young man who's enrolled is paired with a Labrador Retriever puppy. They can take care of this dog, the dog will help take care of them, and together, they grow. And when the young man graduates, that dog goes home with him and his family. Learn more at capstonewellness.com/deloney. That's capstonewellness.com/deloney.

• 40:43Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Bozeman, Montana. Gotta go visit there one day, man. Let's talk to Emily. Hey, Emily, what's up?

• 40:50Speaker 00

  Hey, Dr. John, how's it going?

• 40:52Dr. John Delony?

  Great, how are you?

• 40:53Speaker 00

  I'm pretty good. Um, well, my question is, I was just hoping to get a little insight into how I can kind of help my husband when he gets pretty stressed out about finances.

• 41:06Dr. John Delony?

  Ooh, what's his... Well, before I jump into that, tell me about it.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, so, we actually are a real estate team. He and I work together. Um, and it just seems like, you know, there's ebbs and flows to real estate, and when we're maybe down a little bit, um, he just gets a little bit stressed out, he starts freaking out a little bit more about finances, and starts getting worried about, you know, our future more, and, you know, obviously, as a man, I completely understand that, that he's, you know, the provider for our family and whatnot, but sometimes I just feel like it can affect the rest of our family, and like our relationships to each other and with our kids.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  So, um, when he does kind of get stressed out, I just sometimes don't know what to do.

• 41:59Dr. John Delony?

  So, give me a couple of examples of

• 42:03Dr. John Delony?

  quote-unquote "when he gets stressed out." What is it... What do you experience?

• 42:09Speaker 00

  Uh, I mean, it's not anything crazy. It's more so just, he gets a little bit more in his head. He can't sleep, um, and I just don't, you know, I don't have that experience when I get stressed. I guess I just don't worry as much as he does, so when he gets stressed, he's just a little bit more short, um, not as fun to be around, of course.

• 42:32Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the main problem.

• 42:36Dr. John Delony?

  Are the money stresses real? Meaning, are y'all pretty leveraged? Do y'all owe a bunch, and if y'all don't make X number of sales every month, the whole house of cards comes down?

• 42:51Speaker 00

  Um, I don't know. He might feel that way. I personally don't.

• 42:56Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but that's not a feeling. That's a math problem.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, so, we do have a pretty hefty mortgage, but that's really the only debt that we have.

• 43:05Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 43:08Dr. John Delony?

  What is true about that hefty mortgage?

• 43:11Speaker 00

  Um, well...

• 43:14Dr. John Delony?

  And I'll say it this way. When the last house I owned in Texas, I bought, and this is like gonna be humorous now, I bought it for $175,000. And I could not breathe.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:31Dr. John Delony?

  I could not believe that any human would spend that kind of crazy money on a house.

• 43:38Dr. John Delony?

  And I paced, I didn't sleep, and so, that was me not being well at all.

• 43:47Dr. John Delony?

  Right? I would probably trade one of my kids right now for a $170,000 house, right? Like, not really, but, um, and then I talked to other people who

• 43:58Dr. John Delony?

  they make $600,000 a year combined, and they have a $4 million house, and the math isn't mathing.

• 44:08Dr. John Delony?

  Or they make 60 grand, and they have a $350,000 house, and the math isn't mathing. So, looking at this purely objectively, what's the math problem here?

• 44:20Speaker 00

  Um, I mean, that's a good question. It's it's not like we're struggling to make our payments each month. We also have an Airbnb on our property that kind of, it makes quite a bit. On average, it covers at least half, if not more, of our mortgage each month, and, you know, of course, we have other expenses, just day-to-day living, and we have three young kids at home, um, so we're just busy.

• 44:46Dr. John Delony?

  What's your husband's money story growing up?

• 44:50Speaker 00

  Um, they, I felt like his family had quite a bit of money. They had enough family. They lived frugally, but, um, I don't think he ever really worried necessarily about money.

• 45:03Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Sometimes the worry can be two-sided. It's either you grew up in scarcity, and you know the pain of not having enough, right? You know, you feel the tension in your home when your parents are worried if they're gonna be able to buy groceries that month? And there's also another side to it where your parents talk down about people who didn't have resources? Or they kind of made fun of, or there was this expectation that if you're a real man, or a real person, or a real success,

• 45:37Dr. John Delony?

  you gotta have this, and you gotta have that, and you gotta have that, you gotta have a house that looks like that, you gotta have cars that look like that, you gotta have an income that's this many numbers on it, and this many commas in it. And, right, so the pressure can be all over the place, not just... We often think of scarcity, but it's sometimes that pressure is shame-based and ego-based on the other side of it, too. All this to say is this, it sounds like your husband, not, I'm not saying this as a clinical diagnosis, but it sounds like he is struggling with anxiety at a pretty deep level. And money becomes the

• 46:07Dr. John Delony?

  flashpoint that sets off the machine. He can't hold it anymore, right?

• 46:14Dr. John Delony?

  And so, it's him saying, "Let me back all the way out of this, and

• 46:23Dr. John Delony?

  heal from the inside out."

• 46:27Dr. John Delony?

  Because it sounds like a man that doesn't have peace in the middle of his chest.

• 46:32Dr. John Delony?

  Is that fair?

• 46:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, that's what he tells me. He, his chest gets really tight, and it feels like there's an elephant sitting on it when he gets stressed.

• 46:40Dr. John Delony?

  All right, I'm gonna send you, I wrote a whole book on this called Building an Unanxious Life. I'm gonna send, I'll send you two copies, one for you and one for him. I want y'all to read it together, okay? Because here's a question I want y'all to reverse engineer, two questions. Number one, how do you want your home to feel?

• 47:00Dr. John Delony?

  And Yeah, I'm asking, and here's why I'm asking, here's why that question's important.

• 47:06Dr. John Delony?

  Because most of us have gotten caught up in all these crazy traps for what we're supposed to be doing with our money, square footage, what our kids are supposed to be doing, what they're supposed to be wearing, we gotta have VRBO, we also have to have some crypto on the side, we also have to have this many credit card points, and we have to have our own business, and

• 47:26Dr. John Delony?

  and we've forgotten why we're doing all this stuff. What's it for? What is the arbitrage and the gap, and moving it from this fund to that fund, so we can make the spread and invest it in? Did you get, did you get the SpaceX cap?

• 47:41Dr. John Delony?

  And what I want people to ask is, hey, don't ask those questions first. Ask this question, what do you want your house to feel like?

• 47:48Dr. John Delony?

  And most people want their house to feel full of laughter, and warmth, peace, silliness.

• 47:57Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe a place to, like, it's a, it's a it's a cave where you can go, "Ah," from the crap show that is the world.

• 48:09Dr. John Delony?

  And the second question is, how do we solve for peace first?

• 48:14Dr. John Delony?

  And what that usually means for most people in your situation is, what are the things we're just gonna stop doing?

• 48:23Dr. John Delony?

  Because we want laughter in our life.

• 48:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:28Dr. John Delony?

  And if part of that might be, like me, your husband might have a clinical anxiety disorder, that he's gonna have to go sit with somebody and work through

• 48:39Dr. John Delony?

  as a part of

• 48:42Dr. John Delony?

  "Let's have a house full of laughter and warmth and silliness that we can't wait to get home to." And by the way, y'all got three young kids, so it's gonna be chaotic.

• 48:51Dr. John Delony?

  But I will tell you this, as a guy who took sleep medications, hypnotics, for years, I cannot keep my eyes open when I put my head on my pillow anymore.

• 49:03Dr. John Delony?

  And that was because of doing the anxiety work.

• 49:07Dr. John Delony?

  And then having to go make actual changes in my life.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:15Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 49:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it definitely does. Um, I mean, I agree with you and that's totally, I mean, I want my house to feel stress-free and we can go have fun and

• 49:27Dr. John Delony?

  It's gonna have stress in it, right?

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I just feel like there should be a balance. Of course, you know, we're not out spending tons of money all the time and going out to eat and doing activities all the time. Um, we're pretty frugal with our money, but um, it just feels like the balance is still a little bit off.

• 49:46Dr. John Delony?

  So if you got a million dollars, if y'all, if y'all sold a hundred million dollar ranch in Bozeman and y'all got your 6% from that, I promise you within 30 days, your husband will have found a new thing to worry about.

• 50:00Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 50:01Dr. John Delony?

  Because it's not about the money.

• 50:05Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 50:05Dr. John Delony?

  The money is just simply the, the blinking light on the dashboard right now, but the problem is in the engine.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:14Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:17Dr. John Delony?

  Or the

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:18Dr. John Delony?

  The analogy I use in the book is the money problems that he feels in his chest right now, either he's got a bunch of hidden debt that you don't know about and a bunch of hidden leverages that you don't know about, which may be true. I hear that all the time. Or it is just the smoke detector in the kitchen going off, but that's not where the fire is. The fire is in the middle of his spirit. I don't know how to be a dad of three kids. Ah, my life has changed. My marriage has changed. My wife is a different person now. I'm a different person now. We don't have a map back to each other. Who knows what the thing is, right?

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:54Dr. John Delony?

  Does any of this ring a bell or is it, do I sound, do I sound like I'm just talking gibberish?

• 51:00Speaker 03

  No, I mean, it definitely makes sense. I, you know, I can see that. Um, I guess my question is then, how would I, how can I be supportive while he kind of walks through that if it's not, you know, maybe the money's not the problem and he needs support in other areas?

• 51:15Dr. John Delony?

  Um, well, I'm gonna send you those two books. I want you to say, hey, this goofball podcaster sent these to me. Um, I want us to read this together.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:24Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And if he won't read, read the books, email us, email Kelly or Alex back and we'll send the audio version.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, that's number one. That'll give you a roadmap.

• 51:38Dr. John Delony?

  But number two, I want y'all to take a half-day retreat. I've said this a million times on the show, I want you to take a half-day, the marriage y'all had doesn't exist anymore.

• 51:46Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:46Dr. John Delony?

  The life y'all had together doesn't exist anymore. Two young, married goofballs running around Bozeman, just doing whatever you want, whatever you want. It's over. You got three kids, you got business, you got life. You say, real estate's been ebbs and flows. It's been a lot of ebbs lately, right? And so it's just, just, there's a lot going on.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:05Dr. John Delony?

  And there's something really transformative about a couple looking at each other and literally swiping the deck clean and saying, we get to pick whatever life we want, starting today.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:17Dr. John Delony?

  How do we want this world to feel?

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:22Dr. John Delony?

  And what must be true for that to happen? From that conversation, you might have to say, I would love you to go see a counselor about your anxiousness. I'm not anxious. We're just got money. I'm asking you to go talk to somebody.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:38Dr. John Delony?

  I'll go with you if you would like. But I see a man that I love that, and I see him dying in his own skin.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:47Dr. John Delony?

  And I don't want the old guy back. I want you to feel good.

• 52:53Dr. John Delony?

  So that we can build this new awesome thing together. And if you've got stuff, your marriage is different too, Emily. So your world is different. Your identity is different. Everything's different. And so you asking yourself what I need to do.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:10Dr. John Delony?

  All right?

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Uh-huh.

• 53:12Dr. John Delony?

  And the path is like asking each other on a regular basis, how can I love you? I'm gonna send you the Together app too. And it doesn't sound like y'all have a marriage issues as much as, we just need to have points of connection back. Sometimes these things can be as simple as, once a week, we're gonna meet up.

• 53:28Dr. John Delony?

  And we have three young kids and we don't have a trillion dollars because evidently babysitters cost 450 bucks an hour now. So we're gonna go on the back porch, no kids allowed. We're gonna drop in front of a screen. And y'all know I hate screens, but turn it on. We're gonna sit on the back porch and we're just gonna look at each other and say, phew, we're doing it. What does this week look like? Schedule-wise, what does this week look like financially?

• 53:53Dr. John Delony?

  Let's pull your credit reports and look at everything y'all owe.

• 53:58Dr. John Delony?

  Where actually are we financially? What's the state of our business?

• 54:03Dr. John Delony?

  Let's just start putting some of those things out on the table. And that, the book will give you a roadmap for all of that, building an anxious life. We'll link to it in the show notes for anybody who's interested in it, but I'll send you a couple of copies for y'all two to read together. Talk about each chapter once a week.

• 54:19Dr. John Delony?

  But let's reimagine our home. What do we want this thing to feel like? And how do we solve not for, not for the next, how do we solve for peace here? And sometimes solving for peace means, I'm gonna go bust my butt in the gym. I'm gonna go bust my butt in the therapist's office. I'm gonna go learn jujitsu. It doesn't mean that you just take your foot off the gas, but it means the things you're slamming the gas pedal down on, on the floor for are leading to a thing that makes you go, allows you to go, ah.

• 54:51Dr. John Delony?

  It's building the life you want, building the marriage you want, building the life that doesn't have anxiousness and, and it all the time.

• 54:59Dr. John Delony?

  And it kind of levels out those ebbs and flows. So you can cheer on the, on the good days and you can go, ah, man, on the bad days. But they're, they're not a matter of life or death.

• 55:10Dr. John Delony?

  But I want you to have peace in your home and man, I want your husband to have peace in his heart. Hang on the line here, we'll hook you up, Emily. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back.

• 55:18Dr. John Delony?

  I love, love, love my Poncho shirts. And whether I'm at church, I'm out and about, people are stopping me and they're like, dude, you're wearing Poncho shirts. Are they really that awesome? Yes, they're really that awesome. I've been wearing Poncho shirts for years. If I'm on stage, if I'm traveling, if I'm out running around town, I'm probably wearing Poncho shirts. Right now, because it's a billion degrees outside, I'm wearing their originals and ultralights a lot. They're light, they breathe and they move with you. They're tough enough that I'm never worried about them and they look nice, so I can wear them anywhere. And here's the thing, I don't have to think about it. I just grab one, throw it on, and then I'm gone. So yes, when people ask me, do you love your Poncho shirts? Are

• 56:01Dr. John Delony?

  they worth it? Yes, I wear them because they're the best. Go to ponchooutdoors.com/deloney and check out all of their styles. Sign up with your email and you'll get 10 bucks off your first purchase. That's ponchooutdoors.com/deloney.

• 56:17Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Kelly, am I the problem?

• 56:21Speaker 04

  All right. So this is from Lauren in Lakewood, Illinois, and she writes, am I the problem for feeling hurt when my husband publicly equates our marriage to biblical plagues?

• 56:32Dr. John Delony?

  Then No, why is she complaining?

• 56:35Speaker 04

  Then later tries to play it off as a joke. For example, during a recent family get-together, a group of us were playfully debating cell phone usage. My husband is the king of roasting others, so we were lightly roasting him over his screen time. It quickly devolved into him turning on me, implying that being married to me was hell by saying, quote, "Some people get boils, some get plague of locusts, I get married." This kind of comment is a regular occurrence. And then he later acts like nothing happened and doesn't understand why I'm upset. Am I the problem for being hurt?

• 57:07Dr. John Delony?

  All right. So, couple thoughts here. Thought number one.

• 57:14Dr. John Delony?

  Um,

• 57:18Dr. John Delony?

  I recently added a whole section in my hour-long stand-up routine about

• 57:30Dr. John Delony?

  the women's health challenges that may or may not be in my home.

• 57:37Speaker 04

  Menopause.

• 57:39Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no. Menopause, I was ready for. It's

• 57:43Speaker 04

  Peri.

• 57:43Dr. John Delony?

  It's the, the pre-version.

• 57:45Speaker 04

  Peri.

• 57:45Dr. John Delony?

  Was not aware of that one. We don't talk.

• 57:50Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so, um, I think personally, it's some of the best stuff I've ever done. My wife thinks it's not so funny. And so we've talked about, and by the way, she's never even heard it, but the idea of it. And so we have talked, there's some things I've taken out that she has said like, hey, that's too far, or that's really personal, or that's just objectively, don't say that out loud because you're a man and you're gonna get yourself stabbed in a parking lot. And so

• 58:20Speaker 04

  Or possibly in your studio.

• 58:22Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. So all that to say is, I regularly think things are funny. And my wife says, hey, that hurt my feelings. And I've gotten better over a quarter century together, like navigating that and knowing, like, and even she'll say, hey, guys, to me and my son, that those jokes are for not in the kitchen. And I'm like, yes, you're right. Right? So there's, there's that. That's not what she's talking about here. She's talking about a guy who can dish it up, but can't take it. And I have a problem with that. If you're gonna get in the ring and play and you're gonna throw punches, you gotta expect to get hit back. And that's part of the fun of an engagement. But if you, it hurts your feelings when someone's like, ooh, you're using your phone too much.

• 59:05Dr. John Delony?

  If you can't handle the heat, then you stay outside the kitchen. You don't, don't, don't go in there and play those games. And so it's less about the joke he's making and it hurts my feelings. No, have that conversation. And he needs to be a grown man and be like, dude, I didn't mean to hurt, I would never mean to hurt your feelings. I won't make that joke anymore. Even if that joke is so, so funny, so funny. I will not make that joke. It's so funny, Kelly, so funny. But I'm not gonna make the joke because I never want to hurt you. And let me explain myself because at the end of the day, anytime I'm talking about jokes on a stage, I'm the butt of the joke at the end of the day. That's, that's the goal of it, right? And she's conceded like, all right, it hurts my feelings,

• 59:45Dr. John Delony?

  but I know my husband's not a jerk. This guy sounds like a jerk to me. And so, no, on its face, making a joke about my marriage is like a biblical plague, that can be funny with a group of people that are all in on it and whatever. It's, it's that he just stabs, right? Whenever when he's slap fighting, he stabs real fast. And then it's like, what? What? We're just all playing. And so that's where I think the real conversation is. That was a long-winded answer to, I would sit down and have a conversation with him about, hey, this particular joke hurts my feelings. I would appreciate if you didn't make it anymore. And tell him exactly what you want in a kind, loving way and hopefully he's mature and respectful and sees it. I mean, is willing to keep it up, right? What do you think?

• 1:00:31Speaker 04

  Um, overall, yeah. The only thing that, that struck me a little different is if you keep making a joke over and over and over and over and over.

• 1:00:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, super fair. Good call.

• 1:00:42Speaker 04

  That at some point, you're like, there's something legit here. Is this how, I mean, you're either just an ass.

• 1:00:49Dr. John Delony?

  Or, or, or a one-joke pony, right? You're just like

• 1:00:52Speaker 04

  Right. It's all you got.

• 1:00:53Dr. John Delony?

  A joke.

• 1:00:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, come up with some better material.

• 1:00:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, get new jokes, dude.

• 1:00:56Speaker 04

  Right. Or, hey, is there something we need to talk about?

• 1:01:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Speaker 04

  Because when you, yeah, when somebody says something over and over, but layers it with humor, there's something legit beneath that.

• 1:01:07Dr. John Delony?

  Like you, like, oh, you're late again.

• 1:01:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, we're not even laughing about that one anymore.

• 1:01:15Dr. John Delony?

  There's a lot of truth in that and it hurts.

• 1:01:20Speaker 04

  Who, who is hurt by that?

• 1:01:22Dr. John Delony?

  Who, who let the dogs out?

• 1:01:27Dr. John Delony?

  Good job, Kelly. Love you guys. This is about to get sideways. Bye.