07 Alan Jones | Cross examination focuses on C's texts with Jones

Graphic text messages between Alan Jones and Complainant C were the focus of cross examination in court this week. Sydney reporter, Isobel Roe recaps the key moments, including when tensions flared between defence barrister Gabrielle Bashir SC and the complainant. We also learn why Judge Glenn Walsh gave himself a five-minute time out to consider a legal issue he said he has never seen before. If you have any questions you'd like Isobel and Stocky to answer in future episodes, please email [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Sexual assault support services: MARS Australia (for men affected by rape and sexual abuse) https://marsaustralia.com.au/ on (07) 3857 1222, National Survivors Foundation https://igff.org.au/ on 1300 124 43 You can find all episodes of The Case of Alan Jones here. https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/the-case-of/the-case-of-alan-jones/106995118

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• 0:00Speaker 00

  This will had come about in the most suspicious circumstances you could possibly imagine.

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• 0:45Stephen Stockwell?

  Patience has been tested and tempers have flared in the courtroom as complainant C has pushed back on questions from Alan Jones's barrister. I'm Stephen Stockwell. Just a heads up, there is some graphic language in this episode and some strong language as well. This is episode seven of the case of Alan Jones.

• 1:03Speaker 04

  Veteran broadcaster Alan Jones has been a giant of the Australian media landscape.

• 1:08Speaker 05

  Some people said that he was more powerful than the Prime Minister.

• 1:12Speaker 06

  There was an 83-year-old male arrested this morning. Detectives from the Child Abuse Squad turned up at Alan Jones' luxury apartment down there at Circular Quay.

• 1:21Speaker 04

  Following allegations that he indecently assaulted multiple young men.

• 1:25Speaker 07

  I'm not going to dwell here on the allegations made about me, other than to say that I refute them entirely.

• 1:31Stephen Stockwell?

  The cross-examination of complainant C has continued through the third week of this trial as he has faced question after question about why he sent messages to Alan Jones and his responses to the alleged kissing and touching. And then throughout all of this has been ABC Court reporter Isobel Rowe. Thanks for joining us, Isabel.

• 1:49Speaker 06

  You're welcome, Stocky.

• 1:51Stephen Stockwell?

  There is plenty to discuss from the cross-examination of complainant C, the second complainant to give evidence in the trial of Alan Jones. Can you wrap up the last few days for us in 60 seconds or so?

• 2:02Speaker 06

  I will give it a go. So there's been some pretty intense challenges to C about the texts that he sent Alan Jones and why he would send them if C says that Alan Jones did what he says that he did. We've heard more about the power dynamic, which C says made him feel like he couldn't push Alan Jones away. The judge has gotten fed up and put himself in a timeout for five minutes. And we've heard about a rivalry between Alan Jones and 2GB host Ray Hadley, which the defence has alleged gives C some sort of motive for making his complaint.

• 2:42Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you, Isabel. Look, I really want to talk more about Judge Glenn Walsh's timeout. That's been something I've just been wondering if we'd see for a little while now, so plenty to unpack with that. But also plenty to unpack with the rest of complainant C's cross-examination. Look, this is, you know, the messages to Alan Jones from complainant C really have kind of defined the first stage of this cross-examination. He was asked again and again and again by Gabrielle Beshear, Alan Jones's barrister, why he sent those messages. What are these messages and how did he explain them?

• 3:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, look, there's a series of messages that have been brought up over many years. And the issue for the defence that they're trying to get at here is the tone and the words and the language that C has used to speak to Alan Jones, someone who he says has been, you know, indecently assaulting him. So some of these texts we heard in the court and we're given the documents, I mean, we're showing the documents, they're handed up. So everyone can see this history of text messages. Some of the texts C sent say, you know, things like, "It was lovely to see you. I haven't been this happy at work in a long time, made only better by seeing you today."

• 3:59Speaker 06

  And the questioning is, you know, this text is inconsistent with you feeling uncomfortable with Alan Jones, isn't it? Then there was a text from Alan Jones which said something along the lines of, and language warning, "How big is the cock and love my angel?" And there were texts then from C in response which say that he missed hanging out with Alan Jones. He missed seeing his face every day when they no longer worked together. And the question from Gabrielle Beshear was, this was a genuine message from you to Alan Jones, wasn't it? And C said the sentiments weren't genuine.

• 4:40Speaker 06

  And she said, "But you signed off, love always mate, XX." And he said, "Yes, I did, but that's just how I spoke to him." There's another message we heard about where he is talking about a few things and then C says at the end of the message, "P.S. I'm a bachelor again." And then he says, "The X is out." And X is this reference that he makes to his own genitals, essentially, his own penis. It's a word that he and Alan Jones have used to describe it previously. And the defence said, "Well, you instigated that, didn't you? You know, you brought up your own genitals to Alan Jones." And he said, C said, "Yes, I did, because I knew that that was how he would like to be spoken to."

• 5:23Speaker 06

  And so there was this constant, you know, taking him back through all of these messages. And the way they communicated, not just when they were working together, but after they were working together.

• 5:36Speaker 06

  And there was this suggestion from the defence that if if C was telling the truth about being kissed and being touched by Alan Jones, then he wouldn't be sending these messages to Alan Jones. And C just repeatedly denied it and said that this was how I thought I had to speak to him. I was groomed to speak to him this way. This was how I kept my relationship with him.

• 5:58Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, also pointing out, I think in that point, that there's a 40-year age difference between him at the time these messages are being sent and Alan Jones as well. And, I mean, this was a really long line of questioning, as we've seen through the cross-examination of all the witnesses by Gabrielle Beshear. She'll ask questions again and again, sort of going around in different sort of circles throughout. And I have been, to be honest, pretty surprised at the patience of some of the complainants throughout this. But it seems the patience does have limits because C cracked it at one point when he was challenged by Gabrielle Beshear.

• 6:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, he did seem to be getting pretty frustrated and at one point he sort of, instead of just answering the question, yes or no, or adding, you know, his own answer, he sort of started adding all this other explanation. And you could tell he was really feeling like he had to explain himself. And then at one point, he was being asked about another line of text messages and he sort of said something like, you know, "Oh, talking to a straight guy about wanting to play with his penis, get real." And then he goes, "Sorry," and sort of corrects himself. And then he said, "You'll never find another text message from me to another person on earth where I talk to them in this way." He said, "Not my wife, you know, not any other ex-girlfriend I've had. You know, this is the way I spoke to Alan Jones and nobody else."

• 7:12Speaker 06

  And then Judge Glenn Walsh sort of piped up and said, you know, to the defence, you know, he's actually been asked 16 times now to deny specific allegations. He's clearly getting frustrated. It does happen. And the Crown sort of agreed and said, "Look, I think that's enough in terms of asking him, you know, to deny specific things." And the cross-examination isn't sort of free rein. And then he's on a let C go and have a little longer break, I guess, realising that things were getting a bit heated.

• 7:48Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, yeah. And there's been a number of tense moments like this over the last few days. We've had the prosecution objecting to the cross-examination at different points as well. And we got an interesting explanation from His Honour Glenn Walsh on kind of why he was allowing the cross-examination to continue for as long as it's continued for.

• 8:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, and it's been so much longer than the evidence in chief. And that was the case with Jay as well. The cross-examination is more than double the time that the evidence in chief takes. But he did say, you know, "There are eight charges here. The Crown case goes for a day and a half. You've got to give defence some scope to essentially go through many years of alleged offending and then contact after that through these text messages."

• 8:33Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. Isabel, can you remind us what C has said about the power dynamic between him and Alan Jones? Because we've heard evidence from him that he felt like he needed to respond to all these messages from Alan Jones.

• 8:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, so C, as a reminder, is a former colleague of Alan Jones. He was a junior person, as you say, he was about 40, 45 years younger than Alan Jones, working together. Um, he describes Alan Jones as influential. I think last episode we described, he, he described um Alan Jones as the most powerful man in the country at a time. Um, you know, he was in a prominent on air position and he talked about the fact that when he spoke about an issue on air, policy would be made around his particular issues. Um, he was asked about why he didn't push back and stop uh him at certain times.

• 9:30Speaker 06

  And the defence said he wasn't exerting any power over you to stop you physically resisting him, was he? Um, and C said, well, he had quite a presence. And Gabrielle Bashir said, but you were able to physically resist him, weren't you? And he said, I did not feel I was able to physically resist. But he sort of went on later to explain it wasn't that he wasn't strong enough. It was that he didn't feel that he could do anything about a person in that level of power. Uh, he also said that, that Alan Jones became a lot nicer to him at work uh after their texts turned to this romantic and this sort of uh sexual nature.

• 10:13Speaker 06

  Um, he was asked what he meant by that in the reexamination. And he said, prior to the period of the romantic texts, he would be reprimanded at work by Alan Jones. He would be, I think he used the words copper spray. He'd been yelled at, but once their relationship became uh more, much more romantic in his words and the, and the messages became sexual. He said that Alan Jones was just nicer to him at work and he didn't get yelled at again.

• 10:41Stephen Stockwell?

  Hmm. And I want to talk about some of those messages. You went through some of them earlier, but I mean, something that I noticed in following the evidence of complainant C reminded me of something that we heard from complainant J in part of complainant J's evidence. He told this story and told the court about a time he had visited Alan Jones's apartment. And Alan Jones allegedly made comments about the size of the penises of African American men while he was there. And then in C's evidence, something similar has come up as well. What was it?

• 11:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, so they, the pair had obviously seen each other that day. They, and then there are text messages as being exchanges after they left. Uh, Alan Jones's text said, uh, wanted to hug you, but not allowed for a soon to be married man. And followed by, uh, but what about the massive weapon? Do I just have to imagine the weapon being a reference to C's genitals? C replied, I loved spending time with you today, unexpected, would love to have hugged too. Those Book of Mormon blokes have nothing on me. Now, he was asked what on earth that meant, uh, and he said he recalls Alan Jones talking about blokes

• 11:50Speaker 06

  earlier in the day, like in the car trip, about blokes uh being from Africa and having a big penis. And there are African people in the Book of Mormon. I'm not going to explain the plot of the Book of Mormon to you, but if you know, you've seen it, that's, it's set in Africa. Um, and he said, and so the question was, that was a reference to massive penises, wasn't it? And it was also a reference to your penis, uh, and in this, and in particular size of your penis. So he's being asked again, you know, why are you bringing up your own genitals to Alan Jones? And his defence was, well, no, it was written in response to his comments that he made in the car.

• 12:27Stephen Stockwell?

  Hmm.

• 12:27Speaker 06

  Um, and at the end of this message about the Book of Mormon and the big penises, there's two emojis apparently, a winky face and an eggplant. Uh, and Gabrielle Bashir said, what does an eggplant emoji mean? And he said, a penis, or that's what most people associate it with. And she said, is that what you meant? And he said, yes. And then she said, is that suggestive? And a reference to your penis. And he said, I wouldn't say it was suggestive. Um, but then he said, it's easier to send these messages when you don't have to do it in real life.

• 13:01Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep, yeah, yeah. Um, I do find emoji conversations in courtrooms particularly strange. Um, there's something about the sanitized nature of a courtroom and the, the really general kind of vibe of an emoji where you have these people who are not used to communicating in the really specific terms that a courtroom expects of people. And, you know, the descriptions that come with emojis often end up in these sort of strange moments. I remember a point actually from complainant J's ex-girlfriend being asked to describe what a shrug emoji meant by His Honour Glen Walsh. And I mean, a shrug emoji means what it means and her reaction.

• 13:34Speaker 06

  That's much more obvious than an eggplant. I mean, I think His Honour wanted some clarification on what an eggplant emoji meant as well. Um, look, it's one of the, it's one of the more awkward emojis to use. And anyone in our generation would certainly know what it meant, but perhaps His Honour didn't.

• 13:51Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, it might be a bit out of the um, the demographic awareness of um, His Honour Glen Walsh.

• 13:55Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 13:55Stephen Stockwell?

  Um, and his uh use of emojis. Uh, as well as the messages, Isabel, uh, Gabrielle Bashir has asked C about allegations he's made uh around uh Alan Jones kissing and touching him, particularly about why he hasn't kind of pushed him away or moved him away. What has he said?

• 14:14Speaker 06

  Well, we've had a bit, we've chatted a, a bit about his, his feeling that he couldn't do anything about Alan Jones because he didn't have the power to, you know, he didn't, he didn't feel like he could say anything to anyone. He didn't, he felt like he had to cop it because Alan Jones was the powerful person in his life. But there was this really lengthy discussion and questioning about the positioning of C's hands when he was in the lift in the Macquarie Street apartment. So some of these kissing allegations, as we know, happened allegedly in the Macquarie Street apartment. C says he's gone into the lift, he sort of, he has Alan Jones's briefcase and his uh jacket.

• 14:58Speaker 06

  He turns around, he stands at the back of the lift and he describes Alan Jones coming towards him and kissing him on the mouth without his consent. There was a lengthy line of questioning about what hand he had the briefcase in, what hand he had the jacket on, whether or not the jacket was over his arm and therefore not in his hand and whether he had a hand free. Um, and you could sort of tell that C didn't really understand where this line of questioning was going. And at one point, I must admit, I didn't really understand either. But I, Gabrielle Bashir, I think, was trying to suggest that he had, he wasn't trapped, that he had a free hand. She said, you know, you could have put the jacket over the hand with the briefcase and had another arm if you wanted. And he said, yeah, hypothetically, I could have done that.

• 15:43Speaker 06

  So she was trying to suggest that he could have physically pushed back if he wanted. Um, and he went on to give the explanation that, you know, mentally he didn't think that he could.

• 15:54Stephen Stockwell?

  Hmm.

• 15:54Speaker 06

  Um, she also said, you accept that asserting in your statement that you'd pushed his hand away at one occasion, which he, he did say, he'd, on the very first occasion uh where he describes being touched in the car, he says he pushed Alan Jones's hand off his crotch. So Gabrielle Bashir said, well, do you accept that you pushed him away then? And then you're saying, but you were also frozen and you couldn't push him away. And he said, yes, I accept that those are different things, but my feeling inside was that I was frozen. And in that moment, I still did push his hand away.

• 16:29Stephen Stockwell?

  The frozen reference was quite interesting because Gabrielle Bashir picked up on that. She noticed that. And, you know, listeners to the case of Alan Jones might remember, this is something that J said. Um, he experienced as well, this, this freezing. And Gabrielle Bashir um challenged um complainant C by saying, have you been listening to the evidence of other witnesses? Have you been reading media reports and following along? Did you, you know that that had been said?

• 16:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, she sort of suggested that he had taken the word frozen from J's evidence. Um, and he said, I've tried very hard to avoid the media coverage. Uh, he's not been actively looking. Um, she asked if he had seen any evidence of the first complainant J and he said, no. Um, and she said, are you aware that J said frozen when describing being touched by Alan Jones? And he said, I don't know what he said. So, um, you know, his evidence was that he hadn't read the media coverage, he hadn't. And he didn't realise that that was a word that someone else had used.

• 17:24Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. Um, Isabel, we talked in our last episode about how C told the court that he disclosed the alleged assaults from Alan Jones to journalist Peter Fitzsimons, who was researching a story on Alan Jones while C was in the room with Ray Hadley. Ray Hadley had this call from Peter Fitzsimons, the journalist. Ray Hadley is another broadcaster. Um, and basically this conversation that C has had with Peter Fitzsimons and kind of Ray Hadley tangential, tangentially, has been the focus of a large part of the cross-examination. What is Gabrielle Bashir getting at with this?

• 17:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, she is trying to say that C has made this complaint to Ray Hadley at a time when Alan Jones was under pressure at work. Uh, and he, in making the complaint to Ray Hadley, he was hoping that the allegations made their way somehow to management. Um, at Nine Entertainment, which owns 2GB.

• 18:24Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah.

• 18:25Speaker 06

  C has denied this, but the way it played out in court was that Gabrielle Bashir asked him about the timing of the call. So what C has said previously is that he spoke to Ray Hadley. And then in the same conversation, Peter Fitzsimons, the author, calls Ray Hadley. And Ray says, do you mind just jumping on the phone essentially and telling Peter Fitzsimons your story? C says he does that, but he doesn't give permission to use his name. He doesn't tell him who he is. Uh, and doesn't give him permission to use his story at all. Gabrielle Bashir questions him about the timing of that call, says surely that was pre-planned.

• 19:08Speaker 06

  What are the chances that you're speaking to Ray Hadley and suddenly Peter Fitzsimons calls and he says, no? She said, you were making those allegations to Peter Fitzsimons and Ray Hadley about the complaint, about your allegations about Alan Jones. And he said, yes, but I didn't make them public. You know, I, I told Peter Fitzsimons that he couldn't say anything. And he said, if I wanted to damage Alan Jones, wouldn't I have just said, make the allegations public? Gabrielle Bashir also asked, you understood that those allegations in Peter Fitzsimons's hands, uh, whether or not he knew who you were, could be shared with others at Nine?

• 19:52Speaker 06

  And um, C says, I, I can't agree with that. I don't agree with that. Um. So her questioning, yeah, was was along the lines of did see have some knowledge of this rivalry between them. And he did talk about knowing that Peter Fitzsimons didn't like Alan Jones. He said that he knew that Ray Hadley and Alan Jones had had some sort of beef, was the word he used. He didn't use the word rivals. The defence did, but he said he wouldn't have described them as rivals. But he said that he knew there was beef between Ray Hadley and Alan Jones and potentially management of the radio station.

• 20:33Speaker 06

  Uh. But as far as he was concerned, um, that had nothing to do with him.

• 20:39Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep, okay. Um. I think it was uh around this point that we kind of had a boiling over of some tension that's been bubbling along for um almost the entire trial, actually. Uh. I think certainly since the first week, I remember being in court, Isabel, with you. And um Justice Glenn Walsh was uh really concerned over the disclosure of prosecution notes to defence, notes that uh notes of meetings that the prosecution had had with complainants. There had been very strong words to the parties about this. Justice Glenn Walsh really worried about, you know, what that means for the trial, what it could result in. Uh, you know, he was at one point kind of strong enough to suggest this could end in a mistrial. And His Honour Glenn Walsh has finally cracked it.

• 21:19Speaker 06

  He has finally cracked it. I noticed his eyes wide a couple of days ago when this was brought up again. What it is, what it seems to be, is that the prosecution, when giving information to the defence team, which it has to do, has given over a bunch of notes, which are notes that it it made in its conference, its conversations with complainant C. Now, those notes are redacted, so they haven't just handed the entire thing to the defence team, but they've given something. And it's because the Director of Public Prosecutions in this case waived the privilege to them. So they were allowed to be handed over. Now,

• 22:01Speaker 06

  Judge Glenn Walsh says he has never, in his lengthy law career, and he does reference when he started law a lot, 1976, uh, he said, when he started law, he said, I'd never heard of conference notes being given, but if they're given, then so be it. And he should, and the Crown needs to expect that they're going to be used in cross-examination. The reason that that this came up was the defence was trying to work out whether or not C was aware of any rivalry between Alan Jones and Ray Hadley before C made the complaint to Ray Hadley, whether he had this ongoing sort of understanding that there was a beef

• 22:44Speaker 06

  between them. And they found that in the prosecution notes, which they now have a hold of, uh, C supposedly has said to the prosecution that he understood that Ray Hadley had called Alan Jones a grub before 2019. And so that's when the Crown leapt up and said, oh, you know, they can't have, they shouldn't know that. And the defence was like, well, we do know it because you gave it to us. And His Honour was like, nah. Anyway, they got in this argument about the fact that the notes are out there now and he's very uncomfortable about it, but it's just just what's happening. And then he goes, I'm going to take a break for five minutes. And everyone sort of looked at each other. And they're like, since when does the judge take a break for five minutes? And he he like

• 23:28Speaker 06

  got up and just walked off. And everyone, you know, stands up, of course, which you have to do when the judge stands up. And, yeah, everyone just sort of looked at each other. And we were looking at the defence lawyers and the journalists are looking at each other, like, is he okay? What is he going to do? Is he going to check something? He didn't say why he was going to take a break. Um. Anyway, he returned five minutes later, seemingly a little bit calmer. Um. They had another discussion about the use of these conference notes. And he seemed happier with that. And he said, we've just raised my blood pressure and wasted 10 minutes. Uh, and then we moved on. There were a lot more further objections along that line. And it seems like this is going to be an

• 24:09Speaker 06

  ongoing issue because the Crown keeps getting upset that that they have given defence the notes, it seems.

• 24:16Stephen Stockwell?

  Or rather, the defence is using the notes that they have been given.

• 24:19Speaker 06

  Yes, yes.

• 24:20Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, we'll see how all of this pans out. Uh, I will say that um His Honour did seem to be in a bit of a rush on Thursday, keen to move through the evidence as uh as quickly as he could. And we did get there, you know, we got to the conclusion of complainant C's evidence, he's wrapped up. Uh, was there anything that you noticed in the conclusion or anything that stood out to you in the conclusion of his evidence? Um, Isabel?

• 24:40Speaker 06

  Um. Look, he was re-examined for a bit. It wasn't lengthy, but um one of the lines of questioning from the Crown was why he didn't make complaints at work. So he was asked in cross-examination who his superiors were, you know, was he good friends with everyone at work? He said, yes, he was. And so the Crown said, well, why didn't you make a complaint to these people? And he said in in relation to one person, he said that that person was extremely loyal to Alan Jones, uh, owed his entire career to Alan Jones, and he didn't feel at any point that he was someone that I could go to and that he would protect me uh in any way. Um. And he was asked more questions about the power dynamic,

• 25:23Speaker 06

  about why he didn't push him away. And he just said, there is no circumstance where I would ever have pushed Alan away from me, given the power dynamic between us, given the person that he was in my life. Um. So, yeah, it's sort of after those questions ended sort of fairly unceremoniously after that, and complainant C was sent home.

• 25:44Stephen Stockwell?

  There we go. Um. Thank you for wrapping up uh all of uh all the rest of complainant C's cross-examination for us, Isabel. We are getting uh plenty of questions through to the inbox, [email protected] is where you can send your uh thoughts, feelings, questions. If there's something we can help explain for you in uh in this process, please get in touch. We'd love to fill in and answer your questions as we're moving through this trial. Uh, Isabel, there's one here from Andrew who's asking about the protection of the complainant's identities. He's noted that facial expressions are an important part of non-verbal communication. Can those in court see the faces or are they obscured for everyone to protect identities?

• 26:21Speaker 06

  Yes, we can see the faces. So for the complainant's evidence, as we've talked about before, the courts are closed, which means only the judge, everyone at the bar table, the defendant, and pre-accredited media, so me and a lot of my colleagues, are allowed in the room. Um. We can see the complainant, who is sitting in another room and is beamed in via AVL. So they're not in the same room as Alan Jones, because that is a standard thing. If there are sexual assault uh or other indecent assault matters, that they sit separately, so they don't have to sit in the same room as their alleged perpetrator. But um they are, we can see them, we can see everything that they're doing.

• 27:07Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep, okay. Um. DJ's got a follow-on question to Andrew's. He was wondering if other witnesses, like the friends and family that we've heard from so far, uh, are appearing by video as well?

• 27:17Speaker 06

  No, everyone else uh must come to court. There is an application, I believe, that was made in pre-trial, which I recall for one or two witnesses to give evidence via video link because they're overseas. That does sometimes get granted. But in general, if it is an open court, so anyone else giving evidence and not a complainant, uh, anyone from the public is allowed in and the actual witness comes and stands in the witness box and gives evidence.

• 27:45Stephen Stockwell?

  Right. Thank you, Isabel. Thank you, DJ. Thank you, Andrew, for those questions as well. Uh, Isabel, we have a question here from Joe in Aotearoa, New Zealand, also from her cat, Jimmy. Uh, Joe is wondering about the timeframe between the two complainants that we've heard from so far. Uh, does the time period of the allegations overlap between these two at all?

• 28:04Speaker 06

  No, they do not. Um. Jay's allegations relate to the years 2003, 2004, potentially as late as 2006. These complaints from complainant C are all in 2008.

• 28:20Stephen Stockwell?

  Right.

• 28:20Speaker 06

  Allegedly.

• 28:21Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you, Isabel. And wonderful question, Joe, in Aotearoa, New Zealand, and her cat, Jimmy. Appreciate you listening uh through the snores of your husband in the evening each night. So thank you for getting in touch and emailing us at [email protected]. Isabel, I will say our dinnerware conversations have continued to tickle the inbox as well. No, it's okay. It's all good. Natalie has been in touch. She has been watching on YouTube and she's noticed the plates on the shelves behind me in the studio here. And she is wondering, it's a reference to Alan Jones's dinner set or Aaron Patterson's fatal mushroom lunch. Uh, Natalie, that is in fact a reference to Aaron Patterson's fatal mushroom lunch. If you look very closely, you will see that there are five plates, four are one colour, one is a different colour. So.

• 29:03Speaker 06

  Oh, I never noticed that before. That's a good pick up.

• 29:07Stephen Stockwell?

  Got to look closely. There's a number of phones on there as well. You'll see. I'm going to email about what they refer to, I'm sure, in the next few days. So if you have a question or if you have an uh observation for the case of set, please get in touch, [email protected]. Uh, thank you so much for the this episode, Isabel, talking us through it all. Um, where are we off to next?

• 29:26Speaker 06

  We are going to hear from the relevant witnesses to complainant C. So we've been told previously, there's probably about 20 colleagues, um, potentially friends, uh, and among them, as we have previously foreshadowed, the 2GB host, Ray Hadley.

• 29:46Stephen Stockwell?

  Plenty to discuss in our next episode. We'll be back in your feed on Tuesday. Isabel, thank you so much for joining us.

• 29:52Speaker 06

  You're very welcome.

• 29:53Stephen Stockwell?

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• 30:27Stephen Stockwell?

  The Case of Alan Jones is produced by ABC Audio Studios and ABC News. This episode was reported by Isabel Rowe, presented by me, Stephen Stockwell. Our supervising producer is Greg Muller and our executive producer is Claire Rollinson. Thank you to senior lawyer Jasmine Sims for her legal advice throughout the week as we are making these episodes, to the New South Wales newsroom, to video producer Dylan BN, and also to audio studios manager Eric George. This episode was produced on the land of the Gadigal and we're under people.