EP. 265 - OHIO: THE HALLOWEEN FAMILY MURDERS

At first, 16-year-old Devon Griffin was sure he was looking at a Halloween prank. As he stood over his parents' bed, where two bodies lay, drenched in blood, it was the only thing that made sense. The reality was too horrible to comprehend: That his mother and stepdad had been killed as they slept in bed, defenseless. But even that reality didn’t capture the true horror of what had happened inside the house. Because upstairs lay another body. And miles away was the killer: someone Devon knew and loved. - Sources:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eTYeCoYyxm58DXXdoFbHQyWHlWbcH9iKGIefFcQToW4/edit?tab=t.y2yayotxnlcb Listen to our new show, "THE CONSPIRACY FILES"!: -Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/5IY9nWD2MYDzlSYP48nRPl -Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-conspiracy-files/id1752719844 -Amazon/Audible - https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/ab1ade99-740c-46ae-8028-b2cf41eabf58/the-conspiracy-files -Pandora - https://www.pandora.com/podcast/the-conspiracy-files/PC:1001089101 -iHeart - https://iheart.com/podcast/186907423/ -PocketCast - https://pca.st/dpdyrcca -CastBox - https://castbox.fm/channel/id6193084?country=us - Stay Connected: Join the Murder in America fam in our free Facebook Community for a behind-the-scenes look, more insights and current events in the true crime world: https://www.facebook.com/groups/4365229996855701 If you want even more Murder in America bonus content, including ad-free episodes, come join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderinamerica Instagram: http://instagram.com/murderinamerica/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/people/Murder-in-America-Podcast/100086268848682/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/MurderInAmerica TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theparanormalfiles and https://www.tiktok.com/@courtneybrowen Feeling spooky? Follow Colin as he travels state to state (and even country to country!) investigating claims of extreme paranormal activity and visiting famous haunted locations on The Paranormal Files Official Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheParanormalFilesOfficialChannel - (c) BLOOD IN THE SINK PRODUCTIONS 2026 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Colin Brown?

  Something that I love in life are flavors that are salty and sweet. I mean, there's nothing better than a dark chocolate bar with sea salt on top. I mean, it's just, it's one of those things that I absolutely love in life that I will eat if I see it in front of me. And salt can enhance the flavor of so many different dishes, but especially desserts. That's why when Courtney and I tried Kachava's new salted caramel flavor, we were blown away. It actually tasted like salted caramel, which was crazy to me, and it was so delicious. Kachava's new salted caramel is the perfect balance of mouth-watering flavor and benefits. One serving provides all the nutrition your body craves in one deliciously simple shake, and just two scoops provide complete nutrition your body craves with protein, fiber, greens, and so much more. When the day demands your salty side, fill it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.

• 0:45Colin Brown?

  Kachava provides clean nutrition. There are no fillers, no nonsense, just like when you're feeling a little salty. There are also no artificial flavors, colors, or sweeteners. Kachava is non-GMO, no soy, no animal products, no gluten, and no preservatives. And there are so many different flavors to choose from, including chocolate, vanilla, chai, matcha, strawberry, coffee, cinnamon, French toast, and of course, salted caramel. Courtney and I have tried Kachava shakes. We love them, and even the packaging is really cool. That's something that I love about how the shakes are packaged and sent to you. I mean, you have to just hold it in your hand to see what I'm talking about, but yeah, we love them. Our pantry is stocked with Kachava products now. So why don't you embrace your salty side? Go to kachava.com and use code MIA for 15% off your first order. That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MIA.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  This October, DC Studios presents a brand-new horror thriller, Clayface. Rising Hollywood star Matt Hagan's career is cut short after a vicious knife attack by a local crime boss leaves him horribly disfigured. Soon after, his friends turn their backs on him, and Matt finds himself poor and outcast to the slums of Gotham. Desperate to retake control of his own life, Matt seeks out a cutting-edge treatment that miraculously returns him to his former self. What Matt doesn't know is that his new powers are also affecting his grip on reality and sending him spiraling down a destructive path of all-consuming revenge against those who wronged him. On October 23rd, Look Fear in the Face with Clayface, starring Tom Reese Harrys and Naomi Aki, only in theaters. Rated R. Seventeen and under not admitted without a parent or guardian.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's Fall Drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 2:44Colin Brown?

  Warning: The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.

• 2:56Courtney Brown?

  Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.

• 3:02Colin Brown?

  This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.

• 3:08Courtney Brown?

  A 16-year-old Devon Griffin stood over his parents' bed, heart racing. He told himself over and over again that he was looking at a Halloween prank. Before him, surrounded by a pool of blood, were two bodies, but they didn't look like people anymore. Devin was sure they were Halloween decorations, placed there to scare him, but deep down, he knew they weren't. And soon, the police arrived and confirmed it. As kids outside wandered from door to door, swinging buckets of candy and showing off their costumes, they had no idea that the police tape surrounding the Lisk family home was anything more than decoration. No one could have imagined the true horror that unfolded inside that house,

• 3:53Courtney Brown?

  something that a first responder described as, quote, "a real, live horror story taking place on Halloween." This is the story of Susan Bill and Derek Lisk. I'm Courtney Brown.

• 4:05Colin Brown?

  And I'm Colin Brown.

• 4:06Courtney Brown?

  And you're listening to Murder in America.

• 5:12Colin Brown?

  Benton Township, Ohio is a town that feels stuck in time. With a population of just about 2,200 people, the community is small and tight-knit. In the neighborhoods, which are surrounded by sprawling farm fields and forests, everyone knows everyone. Neighbors aren't afraid to swing by on an ounce, and people across the community recognize the familiar faces. Kids riding their bikes to the market, families gathering at church events, and groups of teens caravanning to enjoy all the nearby scenery the town has to offer. Located about 25 miles east of Toledo, Benton Township has the draw of being close to a big city, but being surrounded by beautiful natural sights like Ottawa National Wildlife Refuge, Crane Creek State Park, and Lake Erie itself.

• 5:58Colin Brown?

  For locals, it's the perfect place to settle down, raise a family, and enjoy long, relaxing days fishing on the lake and boating until the sun goes down. Many can't imagine spending their lives anywhere else.

• 6:10Courtney Brown?

  One of those people was William E. Lisk Jr., who was better known by those around him as Bill. Bill was born on May 11th, 1957, in Toledo, Ohio, to William Senior and Shirley Lisk. Bill spent the majority of his life in the neighboring counties, specifically in Benton Township. For Bill, it was the perfect place to enjoy the outdoors, and that's something he did often. From a young age, nearly every free moment that he had was spent outside, hunting, fishing, and gardening. It's a passion that began when he was just a toddler, fishing in local ponds with his five sisters. By the time Bill was a teenager, he was spending long weekends fishing on Lake Erie and hunting with his friends during the fall.

• 6:54Courtney Brown?

  But one fall, soon after his graduation, things were a bit different. Sometime in the mid-1970s, Bill joined the United States Air Force. After four years of hard work, away from the nature he loved so dearly, he finally returned to Ohio, and he got a job as a truck driver. With a house, a stable job, and a loving relationship with his family, Bill decided it was about time to start a family of his own. At some point, he met a woman 11 years his senior, named Barbara. Now, how they met, we don't know, but it is clear that Bill and Barbara felt a strong connection, one that pulled them closer and closer together. The two instantly headed off, and it wasn't long before they were expecting their first child.

• 7:39Colin Brown?

  William Jarrett Lisk was born on November 24th, 1985, just four days before Thanksgiving, in nearby Martin, Ohio. BJ, as he was soon nicknamed, was Barbara and Bill's only son, and from the day he was born, nothing else mattered to Bill. The first time that Bill saw his son, he knew that he would do anything for this little boy. Soon after, on January 2nd, 1987, Bill's family finally felt complete when he and Barbara decided to get married. Bill was happy with his small family of three, and he did everything he could to support his new wife and young child. He soon got a job with waste management, working as a front-end loader, which allowed him to be home with his son and wife as much as possible.

• 8:22Colin Brown?

  BJ's childhood was spent much like his own father's was, hunting in the fields and forests, fishing on the lake, and spending every spare moment with his family.

• 8:32Courtney Brown?

  But those toddler years went by faster than Bill or Barbara had ever expected. Soon, BJ was old enough to start attending school. His parents were excited to send him off for his first day. Unfortunately, despite their hope that BJ would enjoy school, it wasn't long before he started exhibiting concerning behavior. His teachers noticed that he was often disruptive. He would become upset with other classmates. That is, on the days he actually went to school. In the mornings before class, BJ would sob and scream that he didn't want to go. Now, how these fights with him and his parents looked, we don't know. But they were so severe that often, both Bill and Barbara would be unable to get their son out of the house. So, they would just let him skip class.

• 9:17Courtney Brown?

  But his teachers weren't exactly sure which was worse. Because on days where he came to school, he would often harass and bully other students, often starting physical fights with them. More than once, Bill and Barbara were called in to speak to teachers regarding his behavioral problems. But in their minds, he was still young. He was just stubborn, a bit hard to handle. They believed that BJ was just being a bad boy, and that eventually, he would grow out of it. However, what they didn't know was that this wasn't just a phase, like they hoped. This wasn't a child going through a normal developmental challenge. Inside his head, BJ was just beginning his battle with severe crippling mental illness.

• 10:01Courtney Brown?

  It wasn't something he was going to grow out of. It was a battle that would last his entire life, causing his untreated aggressive tendencies to grow more and more violent and uncontrollable with every passing year. And unfortunately, it would worsen even more when he was faced with a problem that over one-third of American children endure.

• 10:23Colin Brown?

  In 1995, BJ was just 10 years old when his parents sat him down and told them that they were getting a divorce. Bill and Barbara felt the strain in their relationship, and they decided that the best option was for them to split ways. As a child, navigating the change after your parents divorce can be challenging, emotional, and confusing. This was certainly true for BJ, who didn't take the news well. He watched as his mother packed up her things and moved out of the home he had grown up in. Now, Barbara has kept much of her life private, so we don't know how much of a role she played in BJ's life after the divorce. What we do know is that their marriage was legally classified as a dissolution, meaning that the two had come to an amicable agreement without lawyers regarding child custody,

• 11:08Colin Brown?

  property rights, and financial responsibility. And that agreement that they came to ultimately stated that BJ would live with his father full-time, rather than splitting time or spending weekends with his mother. How often she saw him or spoke to him is a mystery, as is what capacity their relationship continued in after she moved out of the home. But one thing is for certain: for BJ, life changed pretty drastically.

• 11:33Courtney Brown?

  From the age of 10, it was just him and his dad, living on a 99-acre property in Benton Township. Being a single parent was hard, but the beautiful place they lived made things easier. On the property, there was a two-story home, a farm, and even a dock overlooking a stocked pond. Beyond the fields were forest for hunting, riding ATVs, and just spending the day on long peaceful walks. Bill's family described it as "his little slice of heaven on earth." And growing up, that's what it was for BJ as well. He had free rein on 99 acres, and he spent his pre-teen and teen years exploring every inch of them. And for better or for worse, he had a lot of time to do so.

• 12:16Courtney Brown?

  You see, working as a single parent meant that as soon as Bill left for work, often before the sun rose, BJ was left to take care of himself and get himself to school. And with no one to hold him accountable, BJ started skipping class and spending the day doing whatever he wanted. On the rare days when BJ did go to school, Bill would often get calls from the principal to come pick his son up after he got into physical fights. Bill did what he could to address BJ's problematic behavior, but he was already carrying a lot on his plate. As the sole provider, being a single parent is a challenge in and of itself, let alone with a child with serious needs. Despite it all, Bill did his best.

• 12:57Courtney Brown?

  But in a system where getting mental health care or time off with family isn't easy, there's only so much he could do. Eventually, though, help arrived in an unexpected way.

• 13:08Colin Brown?

  At work, Bill was eventually introduced to another staff member named Susan Morse. Bill quickly learned that Susan was also divorced with two children of her own. Being single parents can be an isolating experience, but the two developed a bond over it, giving each other advice and sharing stories about their kids. It wasn't long before Bill and Susan found themselves looking forward to catching up each time they saw each other at work. And the more they learned about each other, the stronger the connection between them grew. Because, as they soon discovered, they had a lot in common. Susan was born on January 30, 1964 in Martin, Ohio. Her father was a well-known middle school teacher who was beloved by many, and her mother a fixture in the community. She grew up enjoying the same things Bill did:

• 13:51Colin Brown?

  spending time in nature, fishing on Lake Erie, and spending autumn mornings up in a tree stand hunting. When she wasn't outside, she was working hard scholastically. After Susan graduated from Oak Harbor High School, she wasted no time in working towards her associate's degree in business computer programming at Terra Technical College. That was a busy point in Susan's life, as she was also planning her upcoming wedding to her fiance, a man she had met right out of high school named Gary Griffin. In May of 1986, the two tied the knot. Following their marriage, the two moved into a home in Oak Harbor to begin the next chapter of their lives. While we don't know what the early years of their marriage were like, we do know that while they were together, Susan and Gary had two children of their own.

• 14:35Colin Brown?

  Derek Griffin was born on July 30, 1987, shortly after Susan had completed her associate's degree. And seven years later, Derek earned the coveted title of older brother when his little brother, Devin, came into the world in 1994. Despite the age gap between them, the boys quickly grew close, and they filled their lives with nothing but adventures and laughter.

• 14:58Courtney Brown?

  The boys' bond became even more important when, in the mid-'90s, their parents broke the sad news that they had decided to separate. Just like BJ, Derek and Devin were young when they were told their parents were getting a divorce. They asked questions, navigated their emotions, and eventually made peace with the decision. By the time their mother met Bill in 1999, Derek was 12, and Devin was just 5. But unlike BJ, they had adjusted well to the new normal after their parents' separation. Their mother and father shared custody, and soon, the realization that their parents were much happier apart than together made the transitional time in their lives a lot easier.

• 15:39Courtney Brown?

  They accepted the divorce, and eventually, wanted nothing more than their mom to be happy. And when Susan met Bill Lisk, she was the happiest she had been in years. But above all, her children came first. So when it came time for her and Bill to make their relationship official, it was critical to Susan that Devin and Derek got along with Bill and BJ. And luckily, they did. Devin and Derek took to Bill immediately, and it wasn't long before they created a very positive relationship. After all, Bill loved being a dad, and having two more boys to care for was like a dream come true for him. Unfortunately, the situation was far from a dream for BJ.

• 16:19Courtney Brown?

  Bill and Susan hoped that because BJ and Derek were only two years apart, that they would get along well. However, that wasn't the case. BJ was quiet and standoffish, and he made it clear that he wasn't interested in extending the family. While the boys weren't instant friends, they knew that they could coexist with him for the sake of their parents. After some time of letting their families get to know each other, Bill and Susan felt sure that they could all learn to live as one big blended family. So on September 22, 2001, just two years after they met, Susan and Bill joined their families through marriage. And they did it where they planned to spend the rest of their lives together,

• 16:59Courtney Brown?

  on Bill's farm, surrounded by nature, on the land where they were set to make a lifetime of memories. There, on the dock of the family pond, they vowed to love and honor each other.

• 17:11Colin Brown?

  From then on, Susan was happily known as Susan Lisk. Derek and Devin also took to the change well. After all, they liked their stepfather, and they trusted him. On top of that, moving to the farm as a blended family meant they could spend long afternoons outside, doing all the things that they enjoyed. With two stories and several bedrooms, there was plenty of room for everyone. However, BJ didn't see things that way. Keep in mind that before Susan, Derek, and Devin had moved in, BJ was used to being alone, doing whatever he wanted to, whenever he wanted. But that freedom was taken away the second his stepfamily moved in, not out of malice, but out of care. As soon as she settled into the home, Susan was eager to take on her role as BJ's stepmother.

• 17:56Colin Brown?

  Susan knew that she could never be a replacement for BJ's mom, and she wasn't trying to be. But she hoped that she could become a positive role model for him and create a routine and structure that would set him up for a successful future. She made it clear to all three of the boys that they were expected to do chores, go to school, and listen to both Susan and Bill. By establishing these expectations, Susan thought that she was doing what was best for the boys. And honestly, these rules were nothing out of the ordinary. But BJ wasn't an ordinary child. Instead of learning responsibility, BJ learned to resent what he viewed as an attempt to control him. And over time, the resentment grew.

• 18:36Courtney Brown?

  Despite Susan's new rules, 16-year-old BJ refused to go to school, and he refused to cooperate at all. He made it clear that he did not respect her and that he wouldn't listen to her. It was quickly apparent to Susan that no matter what punishment she issued, what she tried to take away, or what she said, there was nothing that would get BJ to behave. Now Bill did what he could to pacify the strained relationship, but ultimately, it didn't matter. Derek and Devin, who were around 14 and 7 when they moved in, disliked how BJ treated not only their mother, but how he acted towards them as well. BJ was cold. They quickly learned that it didn't take much to set him off. Bill's hope that Devin and Derek would be good influences for BJ quickly vanished.

• 19:21Courtney Brown?

  Instead, everyone in the house spent most of their time walking on eggshells, trying desperately to avoid triggering BJ's anger. But no matter how hard they tried, BJ's rage seemed unavoidable. He was engulfed, blinded by vitriol, overwhelming emotions, and a desire for violence. Because of his battle with undiagnosed mental illnesses, BJ was driven by his emotions, and often he felt that he had no other choice but to act on them. And immediately after moving in, Susan became the target of those cruel acts. Whenever he saw Susan, he felt the urge to yell at her, argue with her, and even sometimes physically attack her. According to detectives, Susan, quote, "was accosted by him on several occasions.

• 20:06Courtney Brown?

  They did not get along whatsoever," end quote. And when BJ wasn't threatening to harm Susan, he was threatening to harm himself. Just one year after Bill and Susan got married, Bill called the police in a panic. He hadn't wanted to call, but he didn't know what to do anymore because BJ was standing in the home, threatening to hurt himself. You have to imagine how helpless and terrified Bill must have felt, begging his son to stay, begging him not to take his life, and at the same time, knowing there was nothing he could do to stop him. Police beelined for the property to help, sirens blaring. And by this point, they knew their way to the Lisk residence without having to look it up. Because sometime in late 2001 or early 2002,

• 20:50Courtney Brown?

  BJ was put on house arrest for an incident that's never been disclosed. But whatever happened then was overshadowed by what happened when police arrived in 2002 after getting Bill's call. As they arrived on the property, they immediately saw BJ, angry and erratic, standing in the yard. What exactly happened is unclear. But as officers approached BJ, he actually got up and started physically attacking them. After a momentary altercation, they were eventually able to pin him and get him under control. The incident was so severe that BJ was actually charged in juvenile court for assaulting a peace officer. Now because BJ was a minor at the time, we don't know what punishment, if any, was enacted. But ultimately, he was not arrested

• 21:35Courtney Brown?

  or formally charged for this particular disturbance. And as if nothing happened, he was simply sent back to the Lisk family home. Bill found himself in an impossible place for a parent to be in, wanting your child home, but knowing that it isn't a safe place for them. When BJ was younger, throwing tantrums, kicking and yelling, it was something they could physically handle. But now, they had a teenager with the size and strength of a full-grown man on his side, and he was growing more unpredictable with every passing year.

• 22:05Colin Brown?

  BJ's behavior was so unpredictable and violent that Bill frequently relied on his neighbor and family friend, Mark Gradel, for help and support. Bill would confide in Mark, sharing BJ's concerning behavior and comments, and Mark did anything he could to help Bill. And there were even multiple occasions when Bill called Mark for help mediating BJ's outbursts. It became so regular that when Mark got phone calls at random hours from Bill, he knew exactly what to expect.

• 22:33Colin Brown?

  Hey Mark, come over. It's BJ.

• 22:35Courtney Brown?

  That's all Bill had to say. Mark knew what it meant. Sometimes, it was because Bill and BJ were physically fighting one another. Other times, it'd be because BJ was irrationally angry and needed to be separated from everyone else in the house. And with each call, Mark became more and more concerned. He was so worried that he spoke to Bill on multiple occasions about BJ's behavior. Mark told Bill that he was scared that Susan, Derek, and Devin, and even Bill himself, were not safe with BJ in the home. He saw firsthand how destructive and violent BJ was, specifically towards Susan. Now Bill listened to Mark's concerns,

• 23:15Courtney Brown?

  but he could not make himself believe that his son would actually hurt anyone in the family. So each time the conversation came to a close, Bill told Mark with certainty, quote, "BJ won't hurt us." And while BJ hadn't hurt them yet, these words would come back to haunt Mark.

• 23:34Colin Brown?

  Over the years, the blended family of five did their best to make it work. By 2004, 17-year-old Derek was enrolled at Oak Harbor High School. He much preferred the company of his classmates to his stepbrother, and he quickly found hobbies he enjoyed outside of the home. Derek particularly excelled in the school's track team, even setting a school record for the 4x2 relay. Outside of school, Derek practiced taekwondo and enjoyed spending time outside on Lake Erie. A family friend described him as a "nice, quiet kid", and he enjoyed the quiet as well. Derek would frequently sneak away in the early morning hours, just as the sun began to rise, to enjoy the stillness of the water on his sailboat or his father's inflatable dinghy. While they grew up, Derek and his brother Devin remained close.

• 24:19Colin Brown?

  Devin, now 10 years old, looked up to his older brother, but BJ, not so much. While Devin and Derek had accepted living in the same home as BJ, neither of them spoke to him much. They did their best to just ignore him and do their own thing. And as Devin got older, he landed on his thing, something that allowed him to spend time outside of the house, make friends, and become a separate person from his brother: competitive swimming. Eventually, Devin joined the swim team and participated in multiple events, and he particularly excelled at diving, becoming one of the best divers in the state in spite of the tensions brewing in his home life. While he had a great relationship with his stepfather, Bill, Devin preferred to be out of the house, away from his violent stepbrother BJ.

• 25:02Colin Brown?

  Luckily, Devin would usually stay with his biological father on the weekends about 20 minutes from the Lisk home, and it was a welcomed respite.

• 25:11Courtney Brown?

  So while Devin and Derek did their best to build good lives for themselves, it was clear that BJ struggled to do the same. He was still stuck in the vicious cycle perpetuated by his untreated mental illness. One afternoon in October of 2004, Susan looked outside the window and noticed that her son Derek's pickup truck was missing from the driveway. Also missing was BJ. Now Derek confirmed that he hadn't given BJ permission to use the truck. On top of that, BJ hadn't told anyone in the family where he was going or when he would be back. And when you're dealing with someone who's expressed suicidal ideation in the past, that's a scary situation to be facing. Susan asked herself, "When should I call someone about it?

• 25:55Courtney Brown?

  Should I go looking for him myself?" But as all these thoughts rattled through her mind, BJ pulled into the driveway in the truck. There was a pang of relief that he was alive, and at the same time, rising anger. Because before BJ even got out of the truck, Susan saw that the truck was damaged. Across the front, there was a deep dent visible. Even in the fading light, it was clear BJ had gotten into an accident. She knew that before she even talked to him. But as he walked towards her, the reason why he had gotten into an accident became clear: he was drunk. Evidently, BJ had taken the truck to go drinking, and on the way home, he had crashed. Ignoring the damage, he got back on the road and returned home as if nothing happened.

• 26:40Courtney Brown?

  But Susan wasn't going to let that fly. As BJ made his way inside, Susan immediately stopped him to confront him. She didn't mince words. She asked him sternly why he thought it was okay to take the truck without asking. Then, on top of that, drink and drive. But BJ didn't see a problem with his actions, and Susan being there to call him out only made him angrier in an instant. A heated argument between them ensued, and it escalated so much that once more, the police were called. In the police report, Susan stated, quote, "He screamed like a baby and called me more names and came at me full force. He hit me straight in the chest, somehow cut my eye. I tackled him down and told my husband to take him before I hurt him," end quote.

• 27:25Courtney Brown?

  Now with the help of officers on scene, BJ and Susan were separated. After the incident, BJ was facing charges of underage drinking, domestic violence, leaving the scene of a crime, and unauthorized use of a motor vehicle.

• 27:39Colin Brown?

  Despite the severity of the altercation, Bill and Susan ultimately decided not to press charges against BJ. Candace DeLong, a now-retired 20-year-veteran FBI criminal profiler, believes it's possible that Bill and Susan worried about the repercussions of sending BJ to jail. There was the chance that this time behind bars would make him angrier and escalate the violence he was perpetuating even further. She stated in her podcast Killer Psyche, "This is not uncommon. Parents of the offender are very reticent to have the child incarcerated, especially in the early stages of a child being violent." Having your own kid arrested can bring on immense shame, and for many parents, it feels like the ultimate failure, one that could have been prevented in their minds if they had just tried harder.

• 28:22Colin Brown?

  But one thing is certain: Bill and Susan were trying their hardest. And sadly, after that violent incident, it was only two months before the police were called yet again. In December 2004, Susan and BJ got into another argument. How the argument started is unclear, but this time, BJ got so upset that he grabbed a coffee mug off the counter and slammed it right into Susan's head. After Susan hit the ground, BJ grabbed the keys to her car and attempted to run away. But he didn't get very far. Police located BJ nearby alongside the car and arrested him for felonious assault and robbery. This time, his parents didn't come to the rescue. Instead of protecting him, they hoped that he would see the consequences of his actions.

• 29:06Colin Brown?

  Unfortunately, it seems that he was completely unable to do so, not for lack of trying, but due to his crumbling mental health.

• 29:14Courtney Brown?

  When he was taken into custody and put in front of a judge, 19-year-old BJ was completely uncooperative. It was clear to his defense team that BJ did not have the capacity to understand the charges being pressed against him. Because of this, BJ was evaluated by mental health professionals, who ultimately found him incompetent to stand trial due to his psychological state. So, officers had no choice but to let him return to the Lisk family home and temporarily pause the charges against him while he received treatment for his mental illness at a nearby psychiatric hospital. For the first time while there, doctors determined that BJ was likely suffering from schizoaffective disorder.

• 29:56Courtney Brown?

  Now, schizoaffective disorder is similar to schizophrenia, where people struggling with the condition may experience delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech and thought, and extreme paranoia. But with schizoaffective disorder, people experience mood disorders alongside the schizophrenia. That means on top of the hallucinations and delusions, they also struggle with symptoms of depression or bipolar disorder. In BJ's case, he was diagnosed with bipolar schizoaffective disorder, meaning that he went through manic and depressive phases. Now, during manic phases, people can experience poor impulse control, risk-seeking behavior, rage, hostility, and grandiosity,

• 30:39Courtney Brown?

  all things that BJ had seemingly gone through in the past. And looking at his history, the diagnosis makes complete sense, and the doctors were certain. Following the psychiatrist's determinations, the court actually decided to drop BJ's charges completely. He and his family no longer had legal troubles hanging over their heads, but they had an entirely new beast to face. Fortunately, now, it had a name. They knew BJ suffered from schizoaffective disorder, and they also knew that there was treatment available. So at this point, BJ finally began to receive medication for his mental illness. Candace DeLong explained in Killer Psyche that because of his bipolar schizoaffective disorder, BJ was likely out of touch with reality.

• 31:23Courtney Brown?

  Medical professionals believe it's very possible that BJ was experiencing hallucinations, hearing voices, in addition to going through massive mood swings. Candace emphasized that if these symptoms go unaddressed, they can lead to difficulty with school and relationships, as well as substance abuse, isolation, and suicidal thoughts. Whether his family knew he may have been experiencing these symptoms is unknown. No one, not even BJ himself, has ever been quoted referencing psychosis. However, his father did state in court documents that his son was "sometimes catatonic", which is a symptom of schizoaffective disorder. But throughout everything, his family was hopeful that the medication would help BJ

• 32:08Courtney Brown?

  and help them all become whole again. So armed with the diagnosis and the pills to treat it, they brought BJ home. Unfortunately, things did not get better.

• 32:19Colin Brown?

  BJ felt bound by his mental illness and was seemingly unable to combat it in a meaningful way. You see, despite being prescribed medication, BJ refused to take it consistently, which only made his behavioral patterns more and more erratic. And sadly, that's not uncommon. The side effects of antipsychotics can feel all-encompassing, and when someone isn't entirely convinced they need them, getting them to take their medication can be a losing battle. On top of that, when BJ did take his medication, he did something else, too. Very quickly, BJ developed a drinking problem. When he drank, he became even more combative and violent than usual. It's recommended not to mix antipsychotics and alcohol because they both affect the central nervous system,

• 33:03Colin Brown?

  which leads to increased negative side effects of both substances. But BJ wasn't willing to quit anytime soon, which meant the Lisk family had to be more careful now than ever before, walking on eggshells in their own home to prevent BJ's violent outbursts. And they weren't the only ones who were concerned about BJ's behavior. According to a local newspaper, neighbors who lived near the Lisk family home had multiple instances where their pets were injured, tortured, or even killed. According to Mark Gradle, the Lisk's family friend, his own dog was shot with 22 caliber bullets on two separate occasions. While no one was officially charged, he and many others believed that BJ Lisk was the person responsible.

• 33:44Courtney Brown?

  At home, BJ was consumed by his aggressive and violent thoughts. One afternoon, unable to suppress them, he once again chose to act. At that particular moment, Susan was taking a shower. There had been no argument, no discussion, no fight to trigger BJ. Susan was just quietly existing in her own home in one of her most vulnerable moments. She had no idea what was coming. But in the middle of her shower, BJ slipped through the door. He threw open the shower curtain and attacked the woman who had cared for him for years. Now, the specific details of what he did are unclear, but the violent attack was so shocking and traumatizing for Susan that it changed everything. Once more, Bill and Susan decided not to press charges,

• 34:28Courtney Brown?

  but they drew a clear line in the sand. BJ was no longer welcomed in their home. And as you can imagine, he didn't take the news well. At the same time, he knew he didn't have a choice. Bill immediately found a supervised group home where BJ could live. For those unfamiliar, a group home is a residential home where many people with a variety of illnesses can live safely, often with counselors or clinicians on site. But while in the group home, BJ was finally receiving somewhat supervised treatment for his mental illness. At first, the medication really seemed to help. But the problem was that whenever he started feeling better, BJ would stop taking his medication. Then, after some self-medicating with alcohol,

• 35:12Courtney Brown?

  his violent impulses resurfaced. Candace DeLong believes that because of BJ's mental illness, he may not have even realized how serious his condition was or that he needed help at all. It was hard for Bill to see his son this way. Despite his decision to kick BJ out of the house, he still loved his son, and he refused to give up on him. So in February of 2006, Bill decided to file for legal guardianship over BJ. On the guardianship application, Bill's attorney wrote, "Mr. Lisk wants to protect BJ and to get him the help that he needs. When BJ is on his medication, he does really good. After a while, he will stop taking it because he thinks he is okay. He starts drinking, smoking pot, etc.

• 35:57Courtney Brown?

  Then he starts having problems." Now, at this point, BJ was 20 years old, and because he was a legal adult, it meant he had control over his decisions. However, under a legal guardianship, his father could make those decisions for him on BJ's behalf. And Bill was willing to do whatever he could to help him. He was even willing to help with BJ's finances, transportation, and work arrangements until BJ could get back on his feet. Bill even considered building a separate home for BJ on the land they owned, one where he could still be close to family but separated from Susan. It was clear to everyone that Bill wasn't a man on a power trip. He was a father who loved his son more than anything, and he just wanted what was best for him.

• 36:42Courtney Brown?

  So thankfully, not long after Bill filed the request, he was granted guardianship over BJ. Finally, Bill believed that things would begin to change, that BJ would get better. After being granted the guardianship, Bill decided to move BJ to a different halfway house to try and rebuild a sense of normalcy for them both. The new facility located in Sandusky was about an hour's drive north from their house. And while there, BJ would receive treatment, but he would still be able to have some degree of independence. It seemed like a good fit. Bill just wanted his son to get better, and he hoped that one day, after treating his mental illness, BJ could rejoin him in the family home.

• 37:26Colin Brown?

  As BJ settled into the halfway home, Bill spent as much time with him as he was able to. BJ, once again taking his medication, seemed to be doing well. Despite the distance between them, Bill made an effort to visit BJ somewhat regularly. Sometimes the visits went well, and BJ seemed like he was really getting better. But other times, Bill could see the violence simmering behind BJ's eyes. There were at least three occasions where the police were called because BJ attacked other people in the home, including his own father. During one visit, BJ actually punched his father so hard that it knocked him down. Bill knew better than anyone else about BJ's violent, unpredictable behavior, but he was still unable to believe that BJ, the little boy he raised, would go any further than punching him.

• 38:10Colin Brown?

  And over time, BJ finally seemed to be improving. Bill was so happy to see him making strides in his treatment, and after a little while, Bill was so impressed that he even offered to let BJ visit the Lisk family home on the weekends. When Bill told Susan about this, she was supportive of her husband, but ultimately, she made it clear to him that BJ frightened her. After all, BJ had verbally and physically assaulted her on multiple occasions, and understandably, she didn't feel comfortable having him stay in their home. In addition, BJ was not always consistently taking his medication, so no one knew whether he was going to have a good day or a bad one. So, they reached a compromise. Whenever BJ visited, he would be supervised by Bill, and he was never, ever allowed to stay after dark.

• 38:55Colin Brown?

  And while not everyone was happy about BJ's visits, for the most part, they went okay. Devin, Derek, and Susan tried to interact with BJ as little as possible in order to keep the peace, but it was a hard line to walk. Because on one side, you had a father desperately trying to save his son and make him feel like part of the family. And on the other side, you had siblings and a stepmother who were scared. Fortunately, on the majority of the visits, BJ was relatively well behaved. In fact, over the next few years, there was only one recorded incident of BJ displaying violent behavior. During the summer of 2010, 23-year-old Derek got into some trouble with the law and was charged with drunk and disorderly conduct. We don't know how Susan and Bill reacted

• 39:38Colin Brown?

  or what if any punishment was enacted. But when 24-year-old BJ heard the news, he was furious. He argued with his father, asking why Derek hadn't been kicked out of the home for getting in trouble, just like they did with him. Whatever reason Bill gave, BJ didn't listen. While the argument was only verbal, it built resentment and anger specifically towards Bill. Whether Bill knew that that resentment was building or not, we don't know. But it all came to a head on Halloween weekend 2010.

• 40:13Colin Brown?

  And now for a brief ad break.

• 40:31Colin Brown?

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• 41:16Colin Brown?

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• 42:01Colin Brown?

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• 42:42Colin Brown?

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• 43:20Speaker 01

  This October, DC Studios presents a brand-new horror thriller, Clayface. Rising Hollywood star Matt Hagan's career is cut short after a vicious knife attack by a local crime boss leaves him horribly disfigured. Soon after, his friends turn their backs on him, and Matt finds himself poor and outcast to the slums of Gotham. Desperate to retake control of his own life, Matt seeks out a cutting-edge treatment that miraculously returns him to his former self. What Matt doesn't know is that his new powers are also affecting his grip on reality and sending him spiraling down a destructive path of all-consuming revenge against those who wronged him. On October 23rd, look fear in the face with Clayface, starring Tom Reese Harrys and Naomi Aki, only in theaters. Rated R. 17 and under not admitted without a parent or guardian.

• 44:06Colin Brown?

  Anyways, y'all, let's get back to the show.

• 44:13Courtney Brown?

  On Saturday, October 30th, 2010, Bill picked up his son at the halfway house early in the morning to spend a special weekend together. The sun was just cresting over the autumn leaves, and as the two drove down the highway, they were surrounded by the glow of the changing season. There was an excitement in the air. They were on their way to enjoy a pastime they had shared since they were both children. Hunting. Bill owned a hunting cabin in Carroll County, which was about a three-hour drive from the Lisk family home. It was a place where the family had always made beautiful memories, a perfect place for a father and son to connect, to reflect. In fact, Bill was so eager to spend quality time with BJ that he took the entire weekend off work.

• 44:56Courtney Brown?

  When they reached the cabin early in the morning, they were met with exactly what Bill had been hoping for. The quiet of the wilderness, the nostalgia of their family cabin, and the serenity of nature all around them. Mixed in with that was the tinge of excitement that every hunter feels walking through the woods. That day, the father and son found that they were not only successfully bonding with one another, but they had also been successful in their hunt. The two managed to take down a large deer. Surrounded by the forest, the two stood side by side, and they feel dressed their kill. In retrospect now, it's ominous. Armed with knives, the two sliced the deer's soft belly open.

• 45:38Courtney Brown?

  They slid their hands behind the creature's warm organs, and they scooped them out onto the forest floor. Their hands were slick with blood as they worked together, side by side. I can imagine that Bill was proud of his son. Eating a hamburger from McDonald's is very different from being upfront with your food and seeing the violence that comes with obtaining it. But Bill had no idea that the violence that befell the deer was far from the last violent act his son would commit that day.

• 46:07Colin Brown?

  As they drove home, Bill had an idea. He had been fortunate to catch such a big deer, and he was eager to share that abundance with his neighbors. If you've grown up in a rural area, you've probably experienced that kind of community offer. Because for people in these areas, hunting isn't a pastime. It's a way to put food on the table, connect with nature, and connect with one another. And that's exactly what Bill hoped to do. As soon as they all arrived back home in Ottawa County, Bill called his friend Mark and a couple others to come over and hang out in their barn. While his friends and neighbors happily made their way over to share some venison, the other members of the Lisk family decided that they didn't want to participate. Devin, now 16, decided to spend the night at his father's house, which was pretty common.

• 46:50Colin Brown?

  Derek, now 23, didn't like to be around BJ, so he decided that while everyone else was outside hanging out, he wanted to stay in his room and do his own thing. Now, because the gathering was taking place in their home, Susan stepped in to greet her husband and friends, but she kept her distance from BJ. Eventually, the Lisk property was full of friends, family, and neighbors, all there to have a good time. After all, it was the Saturday night before Halloween. No one had to work tomorrow, and everyone was eager to catch up. They drank, laughed, ate food, and everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves. Even BJ seemed to be having a good time. Now, BJ was also drinking, and while Bill noticed, BJ seemed to be okay, so he didn't stop him.

• 47:34Colin Brown?

  As the sun set and the evening drew on, Bill, BJ, and other neighborhood friends drank and chatted into the late-night hours.

• 47:44Courtney Brown?

  It was just after midnight when the conversation died down, and everyone started heading home. Now, if you recall, BJ was allowed to visit the Lisk home, but Susan and Bill insisted that he was not allowed to spend the night. However, after a long day driving, hunting, and then drinking, Bill realized that he wasn't sure if he could take BJ back to the halfway house, which was an hour away in Sandusky. So he had a decision to make. Drive BJ back while he was still intoxicated, wait a few hours until the alcohol wore off, or let BJ spend the night. Bill weighed this decision heavily, but he never could have imagined just how costly the decision he made was.

• 48:25Courtney Brown?

  It had been several months since BJ had verbally threatened anyone in the family, and even longer since he had laid hands on anyone. To Bill, it seemed like BJ was on the right track, and after such a good day together, he likely felt like he had his son back. If you've loved someone struggling with severe mental illness, you know that feeling. You want their good days to last forever. You want to hold on to the person that you see beneath the disease. And for Bill, more than any time in the past, the person his son was, without the effects of a schizoaffective disorder, seemed clearer than ever. So ultimately, Bill decided he was comfortable letting BJ spend the night.

• 49:05Colin Brown?

  After everyone else said their goodbyes, Bill led BJ back to the house. He would let him stay just one night and then drive him back first thing tomorrow morning. In the house, BJ's room had been abandoned long ago. So in its place, Bill made BJ a temporary bed on the couch downstairs. When he was satisfied that BJ was settled in, Bill said goodnight and walked to his bedroom just down the hall. It was the first time in several years that his whole family was together, peaceful and happy under one roof. And unfortunately, it would be the last. As he lay down next to Susan, Bill drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware that his choice to let BJ back into his home would have horrific, irreversible consequences.

• 49:51Courtney Brown?

  In the early morning hours of October 31st, 2010, BJ Lisk stirred awake on the couch amidst the silence. The world outside was dark and quiet, while neighborhood children tossed and turned in their beds, too excited for Halloween to lie still. Just down the hall, Bill and Susan were sound asleep in their bedroom, and Derek was in his room, just above them. Everyone was relaxed and peaceful, everyone except 24-year-old BJ Lisk. While the world around him was quiet, the world inside BJ's head was louder than ever. Even though he had been receiving treatment for his mental illness, something snapped that night. What exactly, we don't know. Maybe it was being in the house

• 50:35Courtney Brown?

  and being reminded that he was no longer truly welcomed there. Maybe it was a delusion that he never shared with anyone. Or maybe it was years of resentment, anger, and frustration that boiled over. Whatever was spinning in BJ's drunk mind was creating impulses that felt too strong for him to ignore. And it wasn't long before BJ decided what he wanted to do. Quietly, as not to wake anyone, BJ stood up from the couch. While he hadn't been living there for a while, he grew up in that home. He knew where each door led, and he knew where his father kept things. As he made his way around in the dark, BJ located a clawfoot hammer. Next, BJ found a 22-caliber rifle, and he made sure it was loaded with ammunition.

• 51:19Courtney Brown?

  Then, without a second thought, BJ made his way upstairs. He slowly pushed open the door to 23-year-old Derek's bedroom, and there he was, fast asleep in bed. He was lying on his side, in a fetal position, facing his childhood bedroom wall. His back was towards BJ. He had no reason to feel unsafe in his own bed, in his own home. He had no idea he was being targeted for reasons that truly no one will ever understand. Slowly, BJ crept over to the front of the bed, until Derek's head was right below him. His grip tightened on the heavy clawfoot hammer. He raised it high above his head, holding his breath. And then, as hard as he could,

• 52:01Courtney Brown?

  BJ brought the hammer down onto Derek's head with all his might. The blow was so forceful that it caused irreversible damage. Derek's skull cracked, spattering blood and bits of brain onto the walls next to his bed. But BJ wasn't done. He continued to beat Derek again and again with the hammer, until he was sure he was dead. According to medical examiners, Derek had been woken up after the first blow, but the damage was so severe that he was unable to react or defend himself. And within minutes of that first blow, 23-year-old Derek was dead.

• 52:38Colin Brown?

  BJ stood over his stepbrother's dead body, bloody hammer still in his grasp. He knew with certainty that Derek was gone, but BJ wasn't satisfied. He wanted more bloodshed. So, he left Derek's room, locking the door behind him to cover up what he had done. And then, he crept down the stairs to target his next victim. Slowly, he creaked open the door to the primary bedroom. Before him, Bill and Susan were fast asleep, completely unaware of the horrific situation unfolding around them. Standing in the open doorway of his father's bedroom, BJ raised the 22-caliber and shot his father directly in the face. But it wasn't just once. BJ shot Bill a total of five times in the head, in rapid succession, with no hesitation.

• 53:26Colin Brown?

  Bill, 53 years old, died immediately from his wounds. He died believing that the man who shot him, his own son, was on a better path, that they could grow together and make a bond stronger than they had ever imagined. Instead, as he slept in the home he had welcomed his son into against his better judgment, he was betrayed by him. And beside him, the love of his life was about to suffer the same fate.

• 53:51Courtney Brown?

  The sound of gunshots within an enclosed space is deafening. Within seconds of the first shot being fired, Susan bolted awake. She was probably confused and disoriented, unsure of what was reality and what was not. But that confusion was replaced by pure fear when the scene came into focus. As BJ towered above her, with a rifle pointed towards her face, Susan held up her hand to try and block the blow, but BJ shot anyway. The bullet went through Susan's hand, leaving her with a bloody defensive wound. But Susan didn't even have time to process the pain, because within a matter of seconds, BJ pointed the rifle at her face and squeezed the trigger two more times.

• 54:35Courtney Brown?

  Now this is where the timeline gets a little fuzzy. At some point during his attack on Susan, BJ pulled down the comforter, pulled up her pajamas, and sexually assaulted his stepmother. According to medical examiners, Susan was assaulted near the time of her death. But they were unable to conclude whether the assault occurred while she was alive or after she had passed away. Either scenario is truly harrowing. Were Susan's last moments alive spent enduring this horrible act? Or was she demeaned after her death by the boy she had tried so desperately to help? Regardless, after BJ had finished, he left Susan lying there, face down in the pillows, with her legs hanging off the bed.

• 55:18Colin Brown?

  In a matter of just a few minutes, BJ Lisk had taken the lives of nearly an entire family. Nearby the home lived Bill's friend, Mark, who had just spent the evening with the Lisk family. And at around 6:30 a.m., Mark's wife actually heard the gunshots. She had no idea that those gunshots marked the end of Bill, Susan, and Derek's lives, people she had come to know and love, people who she had just seen six hours earlier. Ultimately, she believed that the shots could have been any number of things, all common within the rural area they lived in. So, she didn't report it. But it was just a matter of time before someone discovered the horror that unfolded in the Lisk family home that night. And BJ knew that. After murdering his father, stepbrother, and stepmother,

• 56:02Colin Brown?

  BJ did what he could to cover up what he had done. In the primary bedroom, BJ pulled the maroon comforter up over Bill and Susan's faces in an attempt to hide their bodies and the blood that was soaked into the mattress around them. BJ then searched the room, meticulously picking up every shell casing from the ground. Once he was convinced his cleanup job was complete in the primary bedroom, BJ left, shutting the door behind him. But there was still more evidence to clean up. In one of the downstairs closets, his family kept a safe. And evidently, BJ decided it was a good spot to try and hide one of the murder weapons. Taking the bloody hammer he had used to kill Derek, BJ wedged it behind the safe so it couldn't be seen. BJ then began gathering his things,

• 56:46Colin Brown?

  including the rifle he had shot Bill and Susan with, and prepared to leave. Grabbing the keys to his father's white pickup truck, BJ headed out the door. He was sure that he would have time to get ahead of authorities. Except, there was one problem. As he loaded his things into the pickup truck, another car pulled into the driveway.

• 57:05Courtney Brown?

  16-year-old Devon Griffin had spent the night at his father's house, about 20 minutes away. Now Devin was an active member of his church's choir. And on the morning of October 31st, 2010, the choir was hosting a concert that Devin was eager to participate in. But as he prepared to leave his father's house, he realized that he needed a change of clothes for the concert. With no better option, he decided to leave the house early to stop by and grab a shirt from the Lisk family home before heading off to church. At about 9:30 a.m., Devin pulled into the driveway. Immediately, he spotted BJ, who was busy loading different bags into Bill's white truck. Initially, Devin wasn't bothered by BJ's presence. After all, the two hardly spoke,

• 57:50Courtney Brown?

  and it wasn't uncommon for BJ to be at home on the weekends. So Devin paid him no mind as he stepped out of his car and began walking towards the front door. However, as he walked past BJ, something unexpected happened. BJ stopped Devin to talk to him. According to Devin, BJ simply asked how long he was planning on being at the house. Devin was in a rush, so he assured BJ that it wouldn't be long. He just had to run upstairs and change his shirt. The conversation was short, but it was more conversation than BJ had made with his brother in months. Devin had no idea what had just happened. But as he ran up the stairs to his room to change, he couldn't think about how strange the interaction was. Investigators later reported,

• 58:33Courtney Brown?

  quote, "Devin said he couldn't think of anything else that was said, but stated that BJ was acting happier." To explain, "Devin stated that normally BJ is gloomy. I asked Devin what made him think that BJ was acting happier. Devin stated it was because he was happier, more upbeat, and more talkative. Devin stated that BJ is normally slow and darkish," end quote. Now inside the house, as Devin grabbed his shirt, he pondered his stepbrother's change in attitude. Checking on his brother, mom, or stepdad didn't even cross his mind. He assumed they were still sleeping, which wasn't uncommon. So just five minutes after he had gone inside, Devin left the home and headed towards the church.

• 59:16Courtney Brown?

  This time, BJ was nowhere in sight.

• 59:19Colin Brown?

  When Devin's choir concert came to an end just after 11 a.m., and he made his way back home, none of the Lisks were in sight either. He immediately noticed that the house was absolutely silent. No one greeted him. No TVs were playing in another room, and the house looked exactly as he had left it. Initially, he brushed it off, thinking that Derek was off working with his uncle, and Bill and Susan were just catching up on some much-needed rest. Devin had absolutely no idea how wrong he was. Completely unaware that his family members were lying dead behind closed doors, Devin made his way to his own room upstairs. He planned to spend the late morning relaxing by playing some video games. He played for a while, but eventually, the silence that had initially seemed peaceful

• 1:00:03Colin Brown?

  became unsettling. And, across town, someone else was experiencing that silence in a very different way.

• 1:00:10Courtney Brown?

  Susan's sister Lori was starting to worry. Derek had promised to do some work for her husband that morning, who owned a construction company, but Derek hadn't shown up, which was incredibly unlike him. Lori watched as the sun rose higher and higher in the sky, with still no word from Derek. Sure that there was some explanation, she called Derek. The phone rang, but went to voicemail. Next, she tried calling Susan, but again, no response. Finally, she tried Bill, and once more was met with nothing. Unable to get a hold with Derek, Susan, or Bill, Lori then called Devin at around 1:00 PM, hoping someone in the family would pick up. And for just a moment, she felt relief when he did. As soon as Devin answered, he could hear the worry in his aunt's voice.

• 1:00:55Courtney Brown?

  She asked desperately if he had heard from Derek, or his mother. The second she asked the question, the silence around him became something with a whole new meaning. Devon knew that his family should be up by now, and if they weren't with his aunt, where were they? Devin hung up the phone, assuring his aunt he would see if they were home, and give her a call right back. First, Devin decided he would check the primary bedroom for his mom. He walked downstairs, and a house cloaked in silence, offset only by the sound of his steadily rising heartbeat, and his steps creaking down the stairs. Devin approached the door, the same door that had been shut all morning, and he steadily pushed it open. As he looked inside the room, he saw two figures underneath the blankets.

• 1:01:39Courtney Brown?

  Devin assumed Bill and Susan were still asleep, but the maroon comforter was pulled up over their faces, so he couldn't be sure. His worry increasing by the second, Devin walked over to the right side of the bed, where his mother slept. As he approached her, Devin started talking to her, to try and wake her, but he was met with silence. Walking closer, Devin noticed her leg sticking from under the blanket. Wishing for nothing more than his mom to wake up, Devin tapped her exposed leg. However, it was stiff and cold to the touch. Susan didn't move. The panic rising, Devin kept talking to her as he pulled the comforter down over her head. Before he could even see her face, he saw the pillow, completely soaked with blood.

• 1:02:23Courtney Brown?

  And then he saw hers. The gunshot wounds left Susan's face bloody and broken, her eyes black and blue. In that single fleeting second, countless thoughts raced through Devin's mind. He was in shock, unable to process the nightmare that greeted him, under the comforter. In that second, he hoped that this was all some awful Halloween prank. He tried to tell himself that maybe someone had come into the home, and placed fake bodies in his parents' bed. He hoped for anything but the reality that lay before him. However, deep down, Devon knew that sadly, this was no prank. And it seems his body realized before his mind did. Because the instant after he pulled down the covers, he was sprinting outside, gasping

• 1:03:07Courtney Brown?

  for air as tears ran down his cheeks. He didn't know what to do, what to think. All he knew was that he needed help. So he called his aunt Lori back, and in hysterics, he told her.

• 1:03:19Colin Brown?

  There's blood, I see blood!

• 1:03:22Courtney Brown?

  For Lori, hearing those words miles away must have been absolutely terrifying, but she didn't hesitate to act. She jumped in her car and raced to the Lisk home. There, she found Devin pacing in front of the house, shaking and completely inconsolable. At 1:57 PM, she called 911, as she stood by Devin's side asking him for details. While she was on the line with dispatchers, she went inside the home to investigate. And that's when she walked in on a pure nightmare. Here is a portion of that call, starting just as she enters the house, and ending soon after she enters the bedroom.

• 1:04:00Speaker 04

  We need an ambulance and the sheriff to show up, please. Where's the blood? It's all, all the blood. In their house, in their bed? It's, she said it's in her bed. Okay. Oh my god!

• 1:04:16Speaker 04

  Lori? I don't know, Bill's in the bed, he's dead, he's gotta be dead! Okay, did it look like maybe he was shot? Oh, he's, honey, he's, he's either shot or stabbed or something.

• 1:04:28Colin Brown?

  Police arrived quickly after the call. Both Devin and Lori were outside of the home, tears streaming down their faces. The Ottawa County Sheriff's deputies expected the worst, but as they walked through the front door, everything looked normal. There was a fresh pile of laundry stacked on a chair nearby, and nothing looked out of place. There were no signs of break-in or burglary, nothing was broken or stolen, but as they made their way into the primary bedroom, it became clear that something terrible had happened. As they passed through the doorway, they immediately spotted the bodies of Bill and Susan still lying on the bed. Blood was spattered on the walls around them, and the bed was drenched in a deep, dark red. It was clear that they had both been shot, and yet officers were surprised that they were unable to locate any shell casings.

• 1:05:13Colin Brown?

  This indicated to officers that whoever had committed this crime had been intentionally trying to cover their tracks. But they hoped that, in the scramble, the killer had forgotten something.

• 1:05:24Courtney Brown?

  Quickly, officers began searching the rest of the home. Now, at the time of the call, police didn't yet know there were three victims. The only people they knew about were Bill and Susan. No one had known that Derek was also still in the home, but it was only a matter of time until they found him. As soon as they cleared the downstairs rooms, officers made their way upstairs looking for evidence. The murder weapon, or even the killer himself. They grabbed the handle of Derek's bedroom, but the door was locked. Without wasting a second, officers kicked the door in, and then they saw it. A scene that was somehow even more horrific than the last. On the bed, lay Derek's body. His skull had been shattered, the walls covered in blood and brain matter.

• 1:06:07Courtney Brown?

  To this day, at least one officer who arrived on scene states that it was the worst murder scene they had ever witnessed, and the image of Derek lying on that bed is forever seared into his mind.

• 1:06:19Colin Brown?

  After Derek's body was discovered, the Lisk family home was taped off for processing. As trick-or-treaters walked by, three members of the Lisk family were taken out of the home in body bags, police and crime scene tapes surrounding them. It was a Halloween horror come to life. And bit by bit, police were uncovering more of it inside. Soon, investigators found the bloody claw hammer stashed underneath the safe, exactly where BJ had hidden it. Officers then searched the Lisk's property, looking for any clues about who could have done something so horrible. Near the pond, officers spotted a series of muddy footprints on the dock. To them, it seemed as if someone quickly ran to the edge of the dock before turning back. This gave police the impression that whoever killed the Lisk's may have thrown the additional

• 1:07:03Colin Brown?

  murder weapon into the pond. So, as quickly as they could, they worked on draining the one-and-a-half acre pond. It took them over 14 hours to process the home and search the body of water. And unfortunately, a lot of that search was for nothing. Despite their best efforts digging through the muddy banks of the pond, they never found anything.

• 1:07:24Courtney Brown?

  With more questions than answers, police tried to piece together what had happened. The home showed no signs of a break-in, so they believed this had to be the work of someone who knew the family, someone who didn't have to force their way in. For now, the only person they could turn to was the person who was in the home that day, 16-year-old Devon Griffin. After speaking with him, investigators had no doubt that Devin was genuinely traumatized and shocked by the loss of his family. They quickly confirmed his alibi and cleared him as a suspect. And while he wasn't a suspect anymore, he was a witness. Investigators listened intently as Devin told them there was another person at the house that night, his stepbrother, 24-year-old BJ Lisk.

• 1:08:09Courtney Brown?

  And that, in fact, he had seen BJ leaving the house that morning. Now, as soon as investigators saw BJ's history, they knew that they needed to bring him in for questioning. As soon as possible, they called his phone, but it went straight to voicemail. BJ had shut it off, leaving officers unable to contact him or track his location. And given BJ's violent and unpredictable behavior, police were worried that he could be armed and dangerous. They looked for him around his mother and aunt's houses, with no luck. Soon enough, they found out that Bill Lisk also owned a hunting cabin about three hours away in Carroll County. Thinking that BJ might have run there, the Ottawa County Sheriff's Office called local

• 1:08:51Courtney Brown?

  officers in Carroll County to have them go check out the cabin. Thanks to Devin, they knew that BJ was likely in his father's white pickup truck. And with the Lisk family home now secured, officers had just one goal: to bring in BJ Lisk before he hurt himself or anyone else. Not long after police received the alert from the Ottawa County Sheriff's Office, Deputy Mike Bilash made his way down a long gravel road, inching towards the hunting cabin. And when you're on those kind of rural roads, there's not really any sneaking. Armed and ready, he slowly approached the cabin, which sat up on a hill overlooking the road. And there, clear as day, was exactly what he was looking for: Bill Lisk's white pickup truck.

• 1:09:36Courtney Brown?

  Deputy Bilash assumed that BJ had to be inside, and given the carnage he left behind, he didn't expect him to leave without a fight. He parked at the edge of the driveway and called for backup, but in the middle of the call, the screen door of the cabin swung open. Deputy Bilash looked up, in shock, to see BJ Lisk standing on the porch in broad daylight. He knew instantly that there was no time to waste. So even without backup, he leapt out of his car, drew his gun, and screamed at BJ to lie on the ground with his hands behind his back. He wasn't sure if he was armed, he wasn't sure if he was going to fight or flee. But to his surprise, BJ did exactly what he commanded. He laid down, hands folded behind him, and allowed the deputy to cuff him.

• 1:10:21Courtney Brown?

  By the time other officers arrived, BJ had already been read his rights, which he agreed to understand. And then Deputy Bilash asked him one question.

• 1:10:31Colin Brown?

  How long have you been here?

• 1:10:33Courtney Brown?

  BJ answered back, about three hours, and then he told the deputy, he wasn't going to say anything else without a lawyer present.

• 1:10:42Colin Brown?

  But his clothing in the cabin told such a story that he didn't need to say a word. Officers immediately noticed that his shoes and clothing were bloody. Bill's truck also had spots of blood all over it. Inside the truck, officers found the same rifle that had been used to kill Susan and Bill. When officers searched the cabin, they located Bill's cellphone and wallet, both of which had been taken by DJ. On the kitchen counter, a Subway sandwich sat uneaten. The same day he had murdered Bill, Susan, and Derek, BJ was arrested and charged with three counts of aggravated murder. Because Ohio retains capital punishment laws, if BJ was found guilty, he could have faced the death penalty. And while he had been arrested without incident, once BJ arrived at the prison, it was a different story.

• 1:11:27Colin Brown?

  He refused to be fingerprinted or photographed, and he was so uncooperative that officers had no choice but to leave BJ in a holding cell until they could get him to cooperate. On November 1st, the day after the murders, BJ appeared in court. Now, if you recall, the last time that BJ appeared in front of a judge, he was found incompetent to stand trial. And it appeared that this time, he was also having trouble. According to court officials, he "appeared to not understand questions asked by the judge, and had his public defender explain and ask questions on his behalf." By the end of the day, BJ was approved to go through a competency hearing to see if he was fit to stand trial for the murders. After a thorough investigation, the team of doctors and psychologists determined that

• 1:12:10Colin Brown?

  while BJ Lisk suffered from extreme mental illness, they believed that he was still legally competent enough to understand what was going on. So, on November 10th, 2010, BJ was arraigned and charged with six counts of aggravated murder, all of which were eligible for the death penalty. This was Ottawa County's first capital murder case in over a decade. At the hearing, BJ appeared to be completely disinterested in what was happening around him. He mostly just stared at the table in front of him. And in the end, he pleaded not guilty to all counts. After his arrest, BJ was held on a $3 million bond. Originally, he was sent to the Ottawa County Corrections Department, but after it came out that a family member of one of his victims worked there, he was moved to Erie County Jail.

• 1:12:55Courtney Brown?

  And while the community was glad to see BJ behind bars, they now focused instead on remembering the lives of the people they lost. Funeral services were held for Bill, Susan, and Derek on November 5th, 2010, at the St. John Evangelical Lutheran Church in Oak Harbor. Hundreds of family, friends, and community members gathered to honor the family that they had all known and loved. One of Susan's coworkers wrote, quote, "I think of you as a big sister, and not just a coworker. Your joy, laughter, insight, kindness, and generous heart followed you everywhere you went. It's hard to know that you won't call about a weekend plan, or I won't be getting an email about just anything, or just a call, 'I miss you so much,' end quote."

• 1:13:40Courtney Brown?

  This message was just one of countless others, from neighbors, friends, coworkers, and family. It was evident that Bill, Susan, and Derek touched the lives of so many others, and that their sudden loss was felt deeply. Following the funeral, Bill, Susan, and Derek were all cremated, and their ashes are now in the hands of their loved ones, who miss them more than words can describe.

• 1:14:02Colin Brown?

  As the months passed after the loss of Bill, Susan, and Derek, the grief stung, along with the unanswered questions. One in particular plagued the community. Why had he done it? Despite his not guilty plea, it was apparent to most that the person responsible for these horrific murders could have been none other than BJ Lisk. According to Candace DeLong, a retired FBI criminal profiler, she believes that BJ was compelled to kill Susan, Bill, and Derek because of his delusions resulting from his untreated bipolar mania. People wanted answers, but it was unclear if BJ was willing to give them. For months, he was unwilling to admit what he had done, at least to lawyers. But on March 19th, 2011, he slipped up on a recorded jail cell call to his biological

• 1:14:46Colin Brown?

  mother Barbara. During the call, BJ's mother read a recent newspaper article about the murder of Bill, Susan, and Derek. After she had finished, she said, "You did it? You did all this stuff?" At first, BJ was silent, but after a moment, he simply replied, "Yeah." But it seems that as soon as the words left his lips, he regretted them. He instantly demanded that they change the subject, telling her that they couldn't talk about it anymore. And then, the call was over. Many believe that it was this recorded confession that pushed BJ to reconsider his plea. Because a few months later, on August 12th, 2011, BJ pleaded guilty to all counts of aggravated murder.

• 1:15:28Colin Brown?

  In exchange for his guilty plea, prosecutors recommended that BJ be spared the death penalty, and instead be sentenced to life without parole.

• 1:15:37Courtney Brown?

  On September 14th, 2011, less than a year after the murders, it was time for 25-year-old BJ Lisk to receive his sentence. During his hearing, Susan's sister Lori wrote a statement that read, quote, "I will never get the events of that day out of my head. Our family has suffered an indescribable loss. BJ tore our hearts out and destroyed our family's happiness as we knew it. We feel such crippling grief. We will never hear Susan's laughter, or see Derek's smile again, or feel a bear hug from Bill," end quote. Next, Bill's relative Lisa told the court, quote, "We just don't understand how something like this could happen. You see stuff like this on TV and think, 'It'll never happen to your family.

• 1:16:20Courtney Brown?

  You love someone so much, and then they take something away from you. My only brother, my sister-in-law, Derek. I just don't know how you could do it, when he loved you so much," end quote. And finally, it was BJ's turn to address the court. Everyone watched as he pulled out a two-page handwritten letter. Reading from the letter, he told the court in part, quote, "I don't expect anyone to forgive me. I pray for God to ease the pain I've caused. I loved my dad very much, and it makes me feel sick every time I think about what I did. I can't really explain why all this had to happen, but I think most of it had to do with my mental illness. I still do believe Satan is working for the destruction of our souls.

• 1:17:02Courtney Brown?

  I believe it was an internal struggle with my mental illness and my struggle with the devil. May God rest their souls," end quote. And while many were glad to see BJ taking accountability for his actions, others felt the opposite, believing that he was placing the real blame on the devil instead of himself. But finally with that, it was time for BJ to hear his fate. At just 25 years old, BJ Lisk received three life sentences without the possibility of parole. After the sentence was delivered, Adrian Zimmerman, a defense attorney, stated, quote, "I think it's a good resolution for everyone. He's clearly mentally ill."

• 1:17:42Colin Brown?

  Finally, many felt that the Lisk family had received some justice. For the next few years, BJ spent his life behind bars at the Ross Correctional Institution in Chillicothe, Ohio. But ultimately, the gravity of what he had done and his ongoing battle with mental illness weighed on him heavily. Just over three years into his sentence, 29-year-old BJ Lisk was found dead in his cell on March 31st, 2015. According to prison officials, BJ died as a result of a self-inflicted wound, but the specific details surrounding his death have not been released to the public. Following his suicide, BJ was buried at the Chillicothe Correctional Institute Prison Cemetery in Chillicothe, Ohio.

• 1:18:25Courtney Brown?

  But this isn't the end of the Lisk family story. If you recall, Susan's son Devin lived to tell the tale. In a matter of minutes, Devin's life was changed forever. He was just 16 years old when his mom, brother, and stepfather were suddenly taken from him. Ever since that horrific day, Devin has kept his life private, trying to heal the wounds that would never fully close. He had looked into the eyes of someone who had taken everything from him. And yet, after everything, Devin didn't see a monster. In an interview following BJ's death, Devin stated, quote, "BJ wasn't a monster. We were trying our hardest to kind of help him. We may not have had the necessary understanding to help him in the way he needed to be helped," end quote.

• 1:19:09Courtney Brown?

  Following that fateful day, Devin still had his whole life ahead of him, and he knew that his family would want him to be happy, no matter what. It took a long time, but eventually, Devin worked on building a life for himself. He graduated high school, he got a job, he fell in love and got married. When he and his fiance were deciding where they wanted to hold their wedding, Devin knew the perfect place, the Lisk Family Farm. The very same place he had faced an unimaginable tragedy all those years ago. Many questioned why Devin would want to celebrate his marriage in a place haunted by the past. But Devin had a beautiful answer, explaining, quote, "It's where I grew up, it's where I played, it's where I had my life.

• 1:19:51Courtney Brown?

  I can't have a sad memory as the memory of the place where I lived," end quote. In the end, he and his wife said their vows to each other on that wooden dock over the pond, the same one where he had fished with Bill and his mother, where he had grown into the man he ultimately became. Just like Bill and Susan's wedding, in that very same spot all those years ago, Devin's celebration was beautiful and full of love. It was a way to reclaim a place that had caused so much hurt. It didn't erase the horrific memories of what happened there, but it cemented how Devin and the remaining Lisks were going to move forward with love, joy, and courage. Just two years after the wedding, Devin and his wife welcomed a son into the world, and there was no question what they wanted to name him.

• 1:20:36Courtney Brown?

  Derek, after his beloved older brother. And even though Susan, Derek, and Bill are no longer here, everyone who knew them said the same thing, that despite everything Devin faced, his family would be so proud of the man he became.

• 1:20:57Colin Brown?

  Hey everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. If you guys love what we do here on the show and you want more, please consider joining us and supporting the work that we do over on Patreon. On Patreon, you can get access to an entire library of bonus episodes of the show. These are full-length episodes of Murder in America, same editing, same sound design, same hosts, Courtney and I. And the episodes that are in the bonus library on our Patreon will never be posted anywhere other than on Patreon. They won't go on the main feed. They are exclusively for those who choose to help support our show in that way. Also on Patreon, you can get access to early, ad-free versions of every episode that we post on our main feed.

• 1:21:38Colin Brown?

  And your support on Patreon helps support the show because we have an entire team of writers, researchers, and editors that help bring this show to life. So, from everybody on our side to you, thank you for being a member, if you are a member. Also, don't forget to leave us a five-star review on whatever podcast platform you listen to this show on, whether it's Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever. And also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram @murderinamerica to see photos from every single case that we cover here on the show. Anyways, y'all, thank you so much for tuning in. We'll be back next week with another episode. My name's Colin Brown, and yeah, I'll catch y'all on the next one.

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