Ep. 679: Talking Turkey

Steven Rinella https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork talks with Ryan Callaghan https://www.instagram.com/olcal406/, Brody Henderson https://www.instagram.com/brodyjhenderson/, Randall Williams https://www.instagram.com/randall__williams/, Seth Morris https://www.instagram.com/sethmorris_45/?hl=en, Austin "Chilly" Chleborad, Phil Taylor https://www.instagram.com/philtaylor25/?hl=en, and Corinne Schneider https://www.instagram.com/corinnesschneider/?hl=en. Topics discussed: How Steve's dying but "not contagious"; Randall having a hard time shooting a flintlock; southerners always beating northerners in MeatEater's Turkey Calling Contest https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/wild-turkey/turkey-calling-contest-2025-steve-vs-brent; new spring gear from First Lite https://www.firstlite.com/collections/turkey-hunting-clothes/?lang=en_US, FHF https://www.fhfgear.com/?lang=en_US&bid=fhfgear, Phelps https://phelpsgamecalls.com, and DSD https://www.davesmithdecoys.com; and more. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 2:39Steven Rinella?

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• 3:11Steven Rinella?

  You know what was humiliating for Randall? What? Oh. You might as well turn the machine on, Phil. Oh, it's been on, Steve.

• 3:23Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, get ready for a lot of that this episode.

• 3:25Steven Rinella?

  I'm gonna start off by telling everybody I'm dying.

• 3:31Steven Rinella?

  What's that?

• 3:33Steven Rinella?

  No, you know what? I can't work up any lugs. Even when I work one up, like, watch. You don't have pneumonia.

• 3:41Steven Rinella?

  Jesus.

• 3:42Speaker 04

  What are we doing? You'll know you're getting better when it starts loosening up.

• 3:47Steven Rinella?

  I'm not contagious. Listen, even when I work one up, it's like, it's like I'm drawing it up from my balls, man. It's like coming from deep down, you know?

• 3:58Speaker 04

  I just want the suits at Meat Eater to know when we're all out of work, Steve wasn't contagious. Like, we got sick somehow else.

• 4:07Steven Rinella?

  Listen, man, it's not my fault. I told everybody I'm sick. There's, like, you got, you know, I got hemmed over here.

• 4:14Speaker 04

  I don't think it's your fault that you're sick, but if we get sick, it'll be your fault.

• 4:19Steven Rinella?

  Tough shit, dude. Listen, anyways, I'm pulling it, I'm pulling that phlegm up from my nuts. I can't.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  I don't think that's phlegm.

• 4:32Steven Rinella?

  It hangs up, it hangs up around my sternum. I can't get it up.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  Getting old.

• 4:39Speaker 04

  Don't have the strength to use that.

• 4:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So yeah, the loogie bucket, there's nothing that if you gave me a loogie bucket, it's a dry bucket.

• 4:50Speaker 05

  Phil, do we want to start this over or we're good?

• 4:52Speaker 03

  Well, I think we're good.

• 4:55Speaker 04

  They do have medicine for that.

• 4:56Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I was gonna say what's humiliating for Randall's Randall, as much as he's like a gun nut and everything, what kind of gun you making right now?

• 5:04Speaker 05

  Uh, it's a, uh, I'm converting a HK USC to UMP. Yeah.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  You don't even know what the hell that means.

• 5:19Steven Rinella?

  Well, I hope it's.

• 5:20Speaker 05

  I'm gonna get out in front of this. It's not a flintlock.

• 5:24Steven Rinella?

  What was humiliating for Randall is Randall trying to shoot a flintlock. He can't get used to, he can't get used to the fact you gotta wait a second.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  Most can't.

• 5:33Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 5:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I, if you're gonna shoot a flintlock for the first time, I highly recommend you do it while being filmed by two people with Steve looking over your shoulder. It just makes it for a really nice experience.

• 5:46Speaker 03

  It's hard for people to get over the little explosion in their face.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, uh.

• 5:53Steven Rinella?

  No, we're sorry.

• 5:54Speaker 05

  We're going.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  We, I, I need you to fill out the frame because right now Seth and Cal look lonely over there.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  Are you saying Randall wouldn't have made it as a mountain man?

• 6:05Steven Rinella?

  He'd have been fine.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:08Speaker 05

  I mean, I could see leaving that day, other than being totally humiliated, I could see how it would be interesting to like get used to that and sort of train that into your brain. Like if I, if I had access to one and, and a little bit of time, it'd be fun to get better at it. But yeah, it's, it threw me for a loop.

• 6:28Speaker 03

  It's key to have your system dialed where as soon as you pull the trigger, the thing's going off.

• 6:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  You, you don't want a hang fire.

• 6:36Speaker 05

  The first two shots, I didn't even need to look at the target. I said, this rifle was pointing in a completely different direction by the time it went off. So.

• 6:46Steven Rinella?

  I got some stuff to share. You guys want to try something interesting?

• 6:50Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 6:51Steven Rinella?

  There's a, so there's these dudes I know, I've bought, there's these dudes I know up at, uh, they live, they're in Cake, Alaska.

• 7:00Steven Rinella?

  And they make um.

• 7:03Steven Rinella?

  You ever hear sagebrush dry, you know that dry bag I have sagebrush dry, dry bag? Like, like a real, they make a really nice rubberized, like a, like a submersible dry bag, like a dry bag, dry bag. Yeah. Anyways, they sent me, I bought bags from them and they sent me a um. That's black seaweed they make. Hmm.

• 7:25Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 7:25Steven Rinella?

  Try that. Heck, yeah. And this is sockeye salmon they make. And dry bags. So you just, you just eat it? Yeah, try it out, it's good. It's interesting. I'm gonna get into that. You know what we were doing that, that I hadn't done before? It smells like fat. Yeah. Corinne would get a kick out of this, cause it's kinda Chinese, you know?

• 7:44Speaker 06

  Is it, uh, does it have to do with?

• 7:47Steven Rinella?

  I was Chinese. I haven't told you that. Kyle, you want some? Cooking up the um. Just like taking the kelp, just grab kelp out of the ocean.

• 7:57Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 7:58Steven Rinella?

  Were, were you there when we were doing this, Seth? Salty. But just taking kelp out of the ocean. Oh, yeah. Cutting it like noodles. No, I wasn't there, I don't think. It's the easiest thing in the world, dude, you take kelp out of. The, the tube part. No, no, the leaves, just you find them, whatever, floating around, my kids are always dragging them boat and I'm always yelling at them about it.

• 8:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I'm not saying that. Cut it into noodles. And just steam them and put butter and salt on it, damn, that is good, man. It's like ridic, you don't need to bring any kind of vegetables up there.

• 8:28Speaker 06

  Hmm, this is good.

• 8:29Steven Rinella?

  Do you like that seaweed? I don't.

• 8:31Speaker 06

  Come on, guys.

• 8:32Steven Rinella?

  I think it's good.

• 8:33Speaker 06

  It's delicious.

• 8:34Speaker 07

  Hey, Corinne, I, I'm, I'm sorry, I, I'm saying this with the most love I can, I can muster.

• 8:39Steven Rinella?

  Show up on time.

• 8:40Speaker 07

  Uh, you need, even when you think you're close to the mic, you're never close enough to the microphone.

• 8:46Speaker 06

  Okay, look.

• 8:47Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 8:47Steven Rinella?

  Wow, man, that's.

• 8:48Speaker 06

  I'm getting close and I'm chewing with my mouth.

• 8:50Steven Rinella?

  I could feel, I could feel the love. It's like from a producer, I mean, like producer to producer, you know, that's a real hit. Who's got a knife? Pry this stuff out of here. Oh, there.

• 8:59Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 8:59Steven Rinella?

  Oh, don't use that, God knows where it's been. So carry the good folks up, um. I got it, I got it. Yeah, it's good, isn't it?

• 9:08Speaker 06

  It's delicious and it's like kinda, it's purple.

• 9:10Steven Rinella?

  See, when I retire, I used to think that, um. You don't like it chili? I feel like I'm digging in. I mean, it's not. You guys don't know.

• 9:18Speaker 08

  A pouch of Levi gear in here.

• 9:20Steven Rinella?

  It's not disgusting. A little dry for Levi. No, it's not disgusting, but it's like, I used to think when I retired and moved up to my shack, I, I was like,

• 9:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, Brody, that's the way to do it.

• 9:27Steven Rinella?

  All I need is like butter and gas and vegetables, but I don't even eat vegetables. I just eat gas and butter. It kinda, it reminds me. Is it just me, or does it taste like fat? Like, like a raw fat? Look at what, look at what Brody's making.

• 9:39Speaker 06

  I wonder if it's the salt, the sodium and that sea flavor that has like a little bit of, like bacon fat kinda flavor?

• 9:49Steven Rinella?

  Corey, can you come into a mic here and tell everybody what's going on now, what, what your problem is? Hmm.

• 9:55Steven Rinella?

  What's your problem, Corey?

• 9:56Speaker 08

  Well, I don't think I have a problem.

• 9:59Steven Rinella?

  You do, you gotta have it be that now the northern, the, the northern people get beat by the southern people at turkey calling.

• 10:06Speaker 08

  Oh. Well, there's a lot more enthusiasm coming out of the south, I'll tell you that much. We got a turkey calling contest coming and it's my job to coordinate all these videos for this contest. And all three of our southern participants, they were done weeks ago.

• 10:21Steven Rinella?

  Cause they, they get, cause they get excited about this kinda stuff. And it's already spring down there.

• 10:26Speaker 08

  Well, that's true. I mean, we're still.

• 10:27Steven Rinella?

  That's a good point too.

• 10:27Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 10:28Steven Rinella?

  It's snowing out here right now.

• 10:29Speaker 08

  Yeah, you could be ice fishing if you were risking it, or skiing. But we're not turkey hunting yet.

• 10:35Steven Rinella?

  No. No, and then the southerners, are you gonna film this contest on that? On your phone, or are you just using Phil's camera here?

• 10:42Speaker 08

  No, I got, I'll use it.

• 10:43Steven Rinella?

  It's also completely pointless to even look for turkeys right now. How long can mine be?

• 10:50Speaker 08

  I mean, there's three rounds. Make them fifteen seconds each.

• 10:54Steven Rinella?

  No, no, no, this is a way long, I'm only doing one round.

• 10:57Speaker 08

  But you gotta do a little intro, like here's round one.

• 10:59Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 11:00Speaker 08

  Turkey calling sequence, round two.

• 11:01Steven Rinella?

  It's not like that though.

• 11:03Speaker 08

  I can, I can cut it up.

• 11:05Steven Rinella?

  Okay. Corey's just trying to do his job over here. Because here, here's my complaint about the annual turkey calling contest is, my complaint about the turkey calling contest is it's like, it's like, it's set up for southerners to win. Do you know what I mean? Why don't you have a contest, who can talk the most like Abe Lincoln?

• 11:25Steven Rinella?

  There's something about, I know, there's something about that. Yo, that like lends itself to turkey calling.

• 11:34Speaker 08

  We're better at spotting stalking.

• 11:36Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm. It's like, there's like, there's like, the southerners are always super good at turkey calling. And then you gotta have, then a northerner guys will play against them and he's not gonna win.

• 11:45Speaker 05

  We don't have the right twang.

• 11:46Steven Rinella?

  So maybe we should have an elk calling contest? There's just, there's so much more, I mean, like, life in the north is just, it's more complicated, there's more going on. And you can't just sit back and luxuriate and call in turkeys all the time.

• 12:01Speaker 04

  Southerners are born with a call in their mouth.

• 12:03Steven Rinella?

  And they don't have to worry about any kind of bad weather. Do you know what I mean? Like, here you gotta be, you gotta be on your game, man. Ice, cold.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  Hurricanes, tornadoes.

• 12:15Steven Rinella?

  That doesn't count. No, they call, no, they call turkeys right through those hurricanes.

• 12:22Steven Rinella?

  They just sit on their porch, like, calling turkeys. And we're like, you can't go out on your porch a lot of the times a year here. Too dangerous. Too dangerous.

• 12:33Speaker 08

  What porch?

• 12:33Steven Rinella?

  You'll freeze to death, a bear will get you. So there's down here.

• 12:41Steven Rinella?

  Nothing to do. I, yeah, I view, you know, and thinking about this, Corey, so here's round one, and think about this. I, I wanna set the mood.

• 12:55Speaker 08

  Don't be playing turkey videos in your, on your computer.

• 13:06Steven Rinella?

  Right? Oh, I need to do another thing.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  One of the best movies ever.

• 13:18Steven Rinella?

  I'm playing Civil War, you know, to set the north-south thing. No, what I was gonna do, cuz I can't beat those guys on all their crazy sounds, but here's, here's what I was thinking this morning, I was sitting there thinking about this. And so I started listening to, like, why don't we compare it to what turkey sound like? Ready? Watch, here's a real turkey. You guys know Jay Scott? Jay Scott Outdoors. Okay, here, Jay Scott, here's a real turkey, you can see the turkey on here.

• 13:47Steven Rinella?

  Okay?

• 13:47Speaker 04

  Graspy.

• 13:48Steven Rinella?

  Round one.

• 13:54Steven Rinella?

  Huh? Here's a real turkey.

• 14:01Steven Rinella?

  Here's a Yankee.

• 14:06Steven Rinella?

  Here's a real turkey.

• 14:20Steven Rinella?

  Yankee.

• 14:24Steven Rinella?

  Now, if that's not phenomenal turkey calling,

• 14:27Steven Rinella?

  I don't know what is.

• 14:35Speaker 09

  Yep.

• 14:36Steven Rinella?

  Oh, Cal's going right now?

• 14:45Speaker 09

  Diaphragm selection is really important, so you want to get the one that has the least amount of coffee cup residue and seeds and stuff. And you gotta suck.

• 14:56Steven Rinella?

  Where's that pack? Where's that pack of diaphragms?

• 15:01Speaker 09

  I use all three of them.

• 15:02Steven Rinella?

  At once? He just stacks them in there?

• 15:07Speaker 09

  That's a gobble.

• 15:19Speaker 09

  Thank you.

• 15:19Steven Rinella?

  Are you going right now, Seth?

• 15:21Speaker 03

  No, I'm not a part of it.

• 15:22Steven Rinella?

  You're not a part of it? He'd probably win. He should be part of it. He might beat the Stoudners.

• 15:29Speaker 09

  Not me.

• 15:30Speaker 08

  Okay, ready for?

• 15:31Speaker 09

  Fine with that.

• 15:32Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I need my, but, uh, did you really use all those?

• 15:34Speaker 09

  I did. I, but he's, he's, he's healthy.

• 15:39Speaker 09

  I'd be worried about the inverse of that transaction, but.

• 15:44Steven Rinella?

  What do you mean?

• 15:45Speaker 08

  What, what's your best shot gobble? Everybody else down south is doing an owl.

• 15:50Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I didn't, I haven't, I didn't know that's what we're doing.

• 15:53Speaker 09

  Do your Blue Jay crow call.

• 15:55Steven Rinella?

  I wish I had it with me. If I had it with me.

• 15:59Steven Rinella?

  Well, no, no, no, that's not my, that's not my Blue Jay call. I don't have it with me. I didn't know that that's what I needed.

• 16:05Speaker 08

  The email.

• 16:08Speaker 04

  He already said he can't see the side effect of his illness.

• 16:11Speaker 08

  Let's cough, that would be good. Or you got a car door you could slam real quick.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, you should go out to the parking lot.

• 16:17Steven Rinella?

  What's that?

• 16:17Speaker 03

  You should go out in the parking lot and slam the car door.

• 16:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, or we'll go like this.

• 16:23Steven Rinella?

  Nope, that's not.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Or just go.

• 16:29Steven Rinella?

  Here, we'll try this.

• 16:30Speaker 06

  Just make some other.

• 16:37Steven Rinella?

  That might make him gobble, I don't know.

• 16:39Speaker 08

  Try owl.

• 16:42Steven Rinella?

  Oh, like, no, I can't do that right now.

• 16:43Speaker 03

  Phil, are we rolling?

• 16:44Speaker 04

  This is so good. Clear and a loogie might make him shot gobble.

• 16:48Steven Rinella?

  What's that?

• 16:49Speaker 04

  Clear and a loogie might make him shot gobble.

• 16:52Steven Rinella?

  It'd be a, um.

• 16:55Steven Rinella?

  There you go.

• 17:03Steven Rinella?

  Where are we?

• 17:06Speaker 08

  Okay, now you're best gobbling.

• 17:08Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I can't do a gobble.

• 17:11Speaker 08

  Oh, hold on.

• 17:11Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 17:13Speaker 04

  That was great.

• 17:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. As Robert, I like how Robert Abernathy does, he goes.

• 17:25Speaker 08

  Ready, Cal?

• 17:29Speaker 06

  Doesn't mean anybody like.

• 17:30Speaker 08

  Hold on, Cal, you're gonna have to do that again.

• 17:33Speaker 04

  Was that good, huh?

• 17:41Steven Rinella?

  You do one, Seth.

• 17:42Speaker 06

  You just need to extend your.

• 17:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, what, man?

• 17:45Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 17:49Steven Rinella?

  Brandon, why do you hate turkeys, man?

• 17:50Speaker 03

  I don't hate them, I just, uh.

• 17:52Speaker 04

  Oh, hold on a second.

• 17:53Steven Rinella?

  Chris says you hate them.

• 17:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, okay, I think.

• 17:55Speaker 08

  Where the South is doomed again.

• 17:58Speaker 04

  Uh, please, I'd like to ask everyone to direct their attention to the television. Um, if, if, if you would mind just for a second here.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, there he is, the real deal.

• 18:18Speaker 06

  The face says it all. So Cory filmed, this is from Meat Eater Radio Live a couple of months ago when Connor Smith, who works at our store, who's Alyssa Smith's son as well, brought in his pet turkey, Brogan. And you had a comment about him. You were like, he's got hollow bones. He's nothing like me.

• 18:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:42Speaker 07

  For the audio listeners, that was a clip from an old Radio Live episode when we brought in the turkey and Randall was staring into its eyes like he was looking at the devil himself.

• 18:51Steven Rinella?

  We just don't have anything in common.

• 18:54Steven Rinella?

  Why, yeah, why do you feel that you won't hunt turkeys, Randall?

• 18:57Speaker 05

  Oh, I'd love to hunt turkeys.

• 18:58Steven Rinella?

  Oh, okay.

• 19:00Steven Rinella?

  But how have you not gotten around to it? Cause you're a spring bear hunter?

• 19:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, I like to save up my time for, uh, spring bear and, uh, yeah, I don't know. I just never really figured it out.

• 19:12Speaker 04

  You ever see a turkey walking around when you're spring bear hunting?

• 19:14Speaker 05

  Yep. And I've run after him. I've chased, I've traced a couple, uh, turkeys up a hill when they crossed the road, but.

• 19:21Steven Rinella?

  Trying to shoot at him?

• 19:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's the general idea.

• 19:24Speaker 04

  Supposed to call him in.

• 19:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I just haven't, haven't taken that step yet.

• 19:28Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 19:30Speaker 05

  Maybe if you got me out there.

• 19:32Steven Rinella?

  So you'd go, you would go?

• 19:33Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. I'd love to, I'd love to have a little turkey hunt, put a turkey in the freezer. I like eating cows' turkeys.

• 19:40Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's the, it's the greatest thing in the world, man.

• 19:44Speaker 05

  Yeah. I'm, uh, eager to, eager to feel that joy for myself one day, but.

• 19:50Speaker 04

  You'll never want to hunt bears again?

• 19:53Steven Rinella?

  That's what I found. I, I found that over the years, um, over the years, my spring bear enthusiasms.

• 20:02Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:03Steven Rinella?

  Declined, uh, in, in favor of turkeys.

• 20:07Speaker 05

  I could see that.

• 20:08Steven Rinella?

  You know what the thing about turkey hunting, you can picture too, is you can picture that you'd be hunting turkeys like

• 20:14Steven Rinella?

  as an old ass man.

• 20:17Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:18Steven Rinella?

  I was telling my wife, I was like.

• 20:22Steven Rinella?

  After we retire,

• 20:25Steven Rinella?

  I was like, listen, I'll make a deal with you. We'll spend half the time, half the time

• 20:32Steven Rinella?

  doing just what you want to do.

• 20:36Steven Rinella?

  Half the time doing just what I want to do. Fifty fifty split. And when we're visiting our kids, it won't count against either of our time. And she still won't accept the deal.

• 20:49Speaker 05

  How does she want to split it?

• 20:50Steven Rinella?

  Because she knows that my time is turkey hunting.

• 20:54Steven Rinella?

  She's like, no, I'm not taking that deal. I'm like, why in the world will someone not take that deal? What's better deal than that?

• 21:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:01Steven Rinella?

  Like a picture that. Half the time you can do whatever you want to do. And I won't say shit.

• 21:08Speaker 05

  I'd take that right now.

• 21:09Steven Rinella?

  I'd be like, oh, yeah, that sounds fun. That's what I'd say.

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Just like that.

• 21:14Steven Rinella?

  Sounds like a great time.

• 21:15Speaker 05

  What would you be doing on her, on her days?

• 21:18Steven Rinella?

  I don't know. Probably a variety of things. Variety of things.

• 21:25Steven Rinella?

  She won't take it. Because I want to have a camper and we're going to live in the camper and we're going to start in March in Florida.

• 21:34Steven Rinella?

  And then we're going to, every year, we're going to head north and we'll swing to the northeast. We'll swing west, swing whatever. And it'll just be like on repeat every year. We'll go to laundromats and do our clothes.

• 21:47Speaker 09

  Eat turkey every night.

• 21:49Steven Rinella?

  Eat turkey. We'll go to like internet cafes and email our kids.

• 21:55Steven Rinella?

  And that's how we're going to spend our.

• 21:59Speaker 09

  You'll have the deep fat fryer on a trailer behind the thing that doesn't stink things up.

• 22:05Steven Rinella?

  Seth, you're headed out turkey hunting?

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, Monday, heading to Florida.

• 22:09Steven Rinella?

  Tell me about that.

• 22:11Speaker 03

  So we're going to a guys, we're hunting some private down there. We're going to a guy that

• 22:17Speaker 03

  he, he has bought artwork for my wife, Kelsey, in the past and he's been inviting us to go down there and

• 22:25Speaker 03

  hunt turkeys for like the last few years. And

• 22:29Speaker 03

  this year we decided to go, you know, take him up on the offer. But.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Kinda in some brainstorming of trying to collect some assets around this new turkey vest. Um, first light decided to film the deal, so.

• 22:47Steven Rinella?

  Are you gonna let your wife have her shot?

• 22:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I always do.

• 22:49Speaker 04

  Are you hunting, uh, south of the Osceola line or is it north?

• 22:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:54Steven Rinella?

  You know what I was wrong about?

• 22:56Speaker 03

  It's pretty high.

• 22:57Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's like, I used to somehow have it in my head and I feel like I've misled people on this is, uh,

• 23:06Steven Rinella?

  I used to think it was like the north end of Okeechobee South.

• 23:11Steven Rinella?

  But it's, it's everything except the Panhandle and those counties that are up against Georgia and Alabama.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, I thought it was like the southern half of.

• 23:21Steven Rinella?

  No, man, it's like, you go like one or two counties deep out of, well, the Panhandle is the easterns. And then you go like one or two counties down, deep out of Georgia and Alabama and it's all Osceolas.

• 23:34Speaker 03

  South of Gainesville, maybe.

• 23:37Steven Rinella?

  That might be a good way of putting it, but it's, it's not a perfect line, but yeah.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 23:42Steven Rinella?

  Basically, you know, be like, once you're down in the peninsula, it's Osceola turkeys. At the end of the show, so we're doing the, we're doing Jordan's piece, Crin?

• 23:53Speaker 06

  Yep, we are, we're, it's, uh, out on this feed Tuesday, March 25th.

• 24:00Steven Rinella?

  Oh, but it's not just tacked onto this?

• 24:02Speaker 06

  Mm-mm, nope.

• 24:02Steven Rinella?

  Oh, okay. So, uh, Jordan Sillers, who joins us now and then, um, on, on the podcast here and writes up for the website. He, he's got a, uh,

• 24:14Steven Rinella?

  tomorrow, I guess, if you're listening on the day this comes out, tomorrow, Jordan has this crazy story he's been reporting on, um, it'll be like a special drop podcast episode about him, uh.

• 24:26Speaker 06

  True crime.

• 24:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, about a murder or not. Um, it's a wild story, a turkey hunter in Virginia. Um, this is a 20-year-old cold case, a turkey hunter in Virginia.

• 24:42Steven Rinella?

  Shot in the back.

• 24:45Steven Rinella?

  At daybreak. Turkey hunting.

• 24:49Steven Rinella?

  And you wonder like, well, how many people could have been in the woods that day?

• 24:53Speaker 09

  I don't want to give too much away, but was he shot with a shotgun?

• 24:56Steven Rinella?

  Nope, shot with a rifle.

• 24:57Speaker 09

  Oh, okay.

• 24:57Steven Rinella?

  But you can hunt rifles. You could hunt turkeys with a rifle.

• 25:01Speaker 09

  Okay. Gotcha.

• 25:03Steven Rinella?

  His shot in the back lodged into his heart, wasn't it?

• 25:09Speaker 06

  Uh, yes.

• 25:09Steven Rinella?

  I think the bullet was lodged into his heart, but his face mask was lifted up.

• 25:14Speaker 09

  Hmm.

• 25:16Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 25:17Steven Rinella?

  So, did he lift it up? Did someone lift it up? Did someone walk over? And you get into like, well, how many people could have been in the woods that day? How could you not find who was in the woods that day?

• 25:32Speaker 09

  Wow.

• 25:33Steven Rinella?

  Like a small ass pool of people.

• 25:35Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:36Steven Rinella?

  Do you know what I'm saying? In this little turkey hunting area, they've never made it to rest.

• 25:41Speaker 09

  Hmm.

• 25:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's real, real interesting. Jordan did some great work on it. Lots of interviews.

• 25:50Steven Rinella?

  It's gotta be, I know you haven't listened to it yet, but it's gotta be, it's gotta be that it was a, he was messing with his decoy. He was sitting there, his decoys were laying, he's sitting there dead on a tree, his decoys were out in front of him.

• 26:02Speaker 09

  Hmm.

• 26:03Steven Rinella?

  A cigarette on the ground?

• 26:05Speaker 06

  But it wasn't the brand that he-

• 26:06Steven Rinella?

  No one collected the cigarette.

• 26:07Speaker 06

  And it was, and it was not-

• 26:08Speaker 09

  Why don't you go ahead and give Jordan's podcast to Wilson?

• 26:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly.

• 26:13Speaker 09

  And, and let us know what you think.

• 26:18Speaker 09

  We're easy to get ahold of.

• 26:21Speaker 09

  Love, love to hear about it.

• 26:22Steven Rinella?

  But I don't think that what I'm saying is gonna make people not go listen. I feel like I'm titillating over here.

• 26:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 26:27Speaker 05

  I'm hooked.

• 26:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 26:29Steven Rinella?

  Do you think it's like, are you like, well, now I'm not even gonna bother listening now?

• 26:33Speaker 05

  No, no, I need to find all the, I need to know all the details.

• 26:37Speaker 09

  This day and age, it's just like, you go, okay, how many cell phones were in this area right now? We're gonna start there.

• 26:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you know what? It'd probably be a great place to start.

• 26:49Speaker 09

  Right. Yeah, call OnX, be like, how many folks were right here?

• 26:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:56Steven Rinella?

  There was, uh, we talked about this long ago, cause we were actually gonna, when we started doing the close call series,

• 27:03Steven Rinella?

  we tried to track this guy down, but the-

• 27:07Steven Rinella?

  We tried to track down a victim of accidental shooting in a hunting incident, but he had died of cancer.

• 27:14Steven Rinella?

  Even though he almost died on the mountain one time hunting, but this guy was hunting in Arizona for black bears. Do you remember this story, Kyle?

• 27:21Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 27:23Steven Rinella?

  He's stalking a black bear with his bow.

• 27:28Steven Rinella?

  And he's right above the black bear and all of a sudden someone from across the canyon shoots at the black bear with a rifle. Okay, so it's either weapon season. He's stalking it with a bow and someone across the canyon shoots at the bear. The shot misses the bear and spooks the bear and the bear spooks right up through him, right up past him. The guy shoots at it again and hits the dude in the gut.

• 27:56Speaker 09

  Geez.

• 27:59Steven Rinella?

  Bear runs off. The guy lays there and the shooter never comes over.

• 28:06Steven Rinella?

  He gets up to the top of the mountain, makes a call, starts trying to drive down, passes out, but they find him and save him. The, the, the bullet had mostly got absorbed, like the, got absorbed by his belt buckle. But last rated his insides all up, but he lives.

• 28:25Steven Rinella?

  So they're trying to find out who did it. And what they start doing is they, they, the investigators send out surveys to people that had bear tags in that unit. Where'd you hunt? What days did you hunt?

• 28:40Steven Rinella?

  And then did a follow-up survey and eventually they had like, oh, this guy was hunting bears that day in this area.

• 28:49Steven Rinella?

  And he was out of state and they sent investigators to the guy's house. And when they explained him what happened, um, they, I guess, according to the story I heard, they knew he was innocent. Cause when they explained him what happened, he vomited, like he was that upset about it.

• 29:04Speaker 09

  Wow.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  The archery hunter is all camoed up and he just never saw him or something?

• 29:09Steven Rinella?

  Seems, it seems. We were gonna do a thing about it, but like I said, the primary guy had passed away. Young, like died young.

• 29:18Speaker 09

  So, kids.

• 29:19Steven Rinella?

  Go listen to Jordan's thing.

• 29:21Speaker 09

  Follow up on your shots.

• 29:24Steven Rinella?

  And wear orange.

• 29:25Speaker 09

  Don't just take pokes at stuff and go, oh, doesn't look like I hit it. Walk over there, look for blood, follow up. And if it seems like too much of a pain in the ass, chances are you're shooting too far.

• 29:39Steven Rinella?

  And if you get over there and there's a dead person laying there, make a call.

• 29:43Speaker 09

  Make a call.

• 29:45Steven Rinella?

  Call 911. Um, yeah, that's what I think. I don't, when you guys listen, you'll know what thing. Jordan, I, I, I questioned this decision. Maybe Corinne, you can shed light on it. He, um, he redacts a lot of names. Why is he redacting all the names?

• 30:06Speaker 06

  Um.

• 30:09Steven Rinella?

  Did that come at the recommendation of legal counsel?

• 30:11Speaker 06

  I'm not sure. Uh, I could check with him. I don't know. You mean like other names of people who are investigated?

• 30:20Steven Rinella?

  Like of the characters kind of surrounding the incident, he redacts their names.

• 30:25Speaker 06

  Hmm. I didn't go into that with him.

• 30:27Speaker 09

  Maybe because it's unsolved. I don't know.

• 30:30Speaker 06

  Sorry, sorry. I'm not being very helpful.

• 30:32Steven Rinella?

  No, you're not.

• 30:35Steven Rinella?

  Um, what's it called? What, what'll it be called?

• 30:37Speaker 06

  It's called Blood Trails. Um, yeah, it's called Blood Trails.

• 30:41Steven Rinella?

  Blood Trails. So check that out. 20 year old turkey hunting cold case. Uh, which gosh, seems like it'd be real solvable.

• 30:50Speaker 06

  Yeah. And it's just.

• 30:54Speaker 06

  Question mark. Well, I don't want it.

• 30:56Speaker 09

  Until our listeners hear it.

• 30:58Speaker 06

  Yes. Yep.

• 30:59Speaker 09

  Then one of you may know exactly who it is.

• 31:03Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time. Outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and years of use out of a set.

• 31:48Steven Rinella?

  Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today.

• 31:53Speaker 00

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• 32:23Steven Rinella?

  Every successful hunt eventually leads to the workbench or the kitchen counter. The deer is broken down, the meat is trimmed, and it's time to grind burger, make sausage, prepare jerky, and package everything for the freezer. It's an important part of the field-to-table process. LEM Products makes the equipment designed to help you get the job done. From big bike grinders, which are phenomenal, and sausage stuffers, to slicers, dehydrators, vacuum sealers, and more, LEM offers professional-grade equipment built for home meat processing. For more than 30 years, LEM has been helping hunters, anglers, and field-to-table enthusiasts process and preserve their harvest with confidence.

• 33:07Steven Rinella?

  Visit lemproducts.com and use promo code STEVE15 to get 15% off plus free shipping. That's lemproducts.com promo code STEVE15. LEM, built for the work, there for the journey.

• 33:27Steven Rinella?

  Check this out.

• 33:30Steven Rinella?

  The first time, so this year, I, I put a thing on Instagram where some guys I know,

• 33:40Steven Rinella?

  some houndsmen I know who are commercial fishermen in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, but in the wintertime, they're, they like to chase bobcats with dogs.

• 33:50Steven Rinella?

  This buddy of mine sends me a video from Mackinac County in Michigan's Upper Peninsula of a lion, a mountain lion in a tree in Michigan. After that, the, the, the DNR, Department of Natural Resources, they went out and verified, like they wanted, they wanted to see where it was and what happened, and they went out and verified it. Right. That it was legit, legit location, tracks, everything made sense, and there's a lion there. And this is something that people have long been saying, that there are lions in the UP. Like how people are saying there's lions all over the place. And for the longest time, 20 years ago, you had guys way outside of mountain lion territory, way outside of cougar territory would be like, oh, I saw a mountain lion.

• 34:35Steven Rinella?

  And it was always the same thing. It was, um, no, you didn't. You saw an escaped pet, right? Like this idea that there's just like escaped mountain lion pets running all over the place. You never see like actual pet mountain lions, but somehow there are many. Like you're never like at your buddies and he's like, here's my pet mountain lion. But somehow there are hundreds of escaped pets, even though no one has like the actual pet. Mountain lion. Like there's a lot of dogs running around the woods. There's a lot of dogs in people's houses. So it all makes sense.

• 35:07Speaker 09

  Mountain lions might just be better at escaping.

• 35:09Steven Rinella?

  You got pet dogs and then you got feral dogs, but somehow it's just all feral lions, but there's no pet lions, but they're all escaped pets. Long story short, um, first confirmation in 100 years in the UP in Michigan, two mountain lion kittens in 100 years.

• 35:29Speaker 09

  Verified.

• 35:30Steven Rinella?

  Verified.

• 35:32Speaker 06

  But they haven't been seen, yeah, verified, but then what was it?

• 35:36Speaker 09

  They haven't yet been hit by a car.

• 35:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 04

  Is that the video of them little ones on the side of the road?

• 35:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Dude, it's, it's like, it's unbelievable. So.

• 35:49Steven Rinella?

  Probably like a while ago, one got killed in Connecticut, one showed up in Minnesota. And a lot of times this is lions coming out of lions coming out of the Black Hills, coming out of Western Nebraska. And if you look at a, if you go get yourself a map,

• 36:06Steven Rinella?

  you can see how that sucker, how they're going. You could picture how they're going because they're showing up in Michigan's upper peninsula. So they're going like from the Black Hills across into Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin. And then traveling, and this one that I had the video of was in the eastern UP. So traveling across the top of the UP, probably like flirting up with Ontario, whatever, going across. And it would always be the story is like juvenile males will strike out and colonize new territory. Or they'll want their own territory and so they'll go and presumably they go off in these weird ass places and never find a mate.

• 36:49Steven Rinella?

  Um, and then they kind of have like, they're like a genetic dead end, right? And so when you find these way out there lions that are way out of territory, there's this thing that like, oh, it's probably an escape pet. And then if it's not that, like, oh, it's some crazy juvenile male that wandered way outside of its range. But obviously a female went and then you gotta think, and that low density, how like, how phenomenal must they be at finding each other?

• 37:17Speaker 09

  Maybe that like, I mean, that female might've been impregnated in Michigan. It's like, she didn't necessarily like, you know what I mean?

• 37:26Steven Rinella?

  Sure. I would imagine.

• 37:28Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 37:28Steven Rinella?

  But then like regardless of how low density, how like, how do they find each other?

• 37:38Speaker 09

  Well, yeah, man. I mean, it's like you can get dropped off in the biggest wilderness ever, right? And be like, oh, here's a good way to go find game. And you strike out on that trail and you can find a boot track of somebody else who did the same thing, right? Cause it's just like how predators move.

• 37:56Steven Rinella?

  You get about the ridge top, like shit.

• 37:57Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 37:59Speaker 05

  Cigarette butt and a couple of thirty odd six. How did anybody else think of this?

• 38:03Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Right where I was, right where I was gonna walk.

• 38:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's incredible to think about. But now they're there. I bet you there's a lot of guys that are pissed.

• 38:16Steven Rinella?

  There's a lot of guys that are pissed because you already have um.

• 38:19Speaker 09

  Extreme low deer densities.

• 38:21Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, lower deer densities, got a lot of wolf problems um.

• 38:25Speaker 04

  How would they like, how would they be classified? Like if they, if a breeding population like gets going in Michigan, how are they gonna classify?

• 38:36Steven Rinella?

  That's a great question. I don't know what they count them as.

• 38:38Speaker 09

  Yeah, just be a non, non game species right now, but I'm sure they, they try to put some sort of.

• 38:44Speaker 04

  Protection.

• 38:45Speaker 09

  Protection on them or, or not, right? Or they make the decision that this is just not something we're gonna deal with.

• 38:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, cuz like.

• 38:51Steven Rinella?

  Man, I don't think you, look up, try, someone try to find it. I'm, I'm guessing you can't just shoot a lion in Michigan right now.

• 38:59Speaker 09

  I, I probably under the um self-defense and defensive property rule, you could.

• 39:06Steven Rinella?

  Oh, if it was messing you up.

• 39:08Speaker 09

  Or messing up your cattle. Killing your chicken.

• 39:11Steven Rinella?

  God, yeah. But I mean, like if you were out running bobcats and you treat a lion, my guess is you can't shoot it because how are you looking up what the season is?

• 39:20Speaker 09

  Well.

• 39:20Steven Rinella?

  If it's not listed as anything, does that mean?

• 39:23Speaker 09

  Yeah, we'll, we'll find out cuz if, right, cuz like state of Wyoming, like they have a, they have game species. And then they have uh vermin that can be shot year round without restriction.

• 39:34Speaker 04

  They're classified, they're classified as an endangered species. So you ain't shooting them. That's probably like a state endangered species, not national.

• 39:44Speaker 06

  Endangered mammals in Michigan, meaning it's illegal to hunt or harass them, which includes trying to locate their den.

• 39:53Steven Rinella?

  My old man always had a good story. Uh, you know what a fallow deer is?

• 39:56Speaker 09

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:57Steven Rinella?

  So my dad had a spot he was hunting, um, this was in Illinois. He had a spot he was hunting and there was a big arboretum. Near there and they had all these like fallow deer sort of as a decoration.

• 40:08Speaker 04

  A menagerie?

• 40:10Steven Rinella?

  On this arboretum.

• 40:11Speaker 06

  Wait, aren't those from overseas?

• 40:12Steven Rinella?

  They're Eurasian deer.

• 40:13Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 40:14Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like kind of white. And some of this, some of the fallow deer had gotten off the arboretum. And were just running around. And so my dad was calling, be like, can I shoot one of these deer or not?

• 40:30Steven Rinella?

  And at the time, like they had, Illinois had like a wild deer. They had a deer. So even in your, in your regs, it didn't say like whitetail deer. Cause like you're not, what, what are you not trying to draw this? It was just a deer. And so he called and the best answer they would give him is like, it says a deer. If it's a deer.

• 40:55Steven Rinella?

  So he always had this picture of he always, he has, I should find, he had this great gripping grin where he's got his recurve and he's got a fallow deer.

• 41:06Steven Rinella?

  You know what he used to hunt, man? It was funny is, um, and it's a good idea. He used to have a spot he'd hunt where he'd get on a highway.

• 41:15Steven Rinella?

  And at some point he'd pulled off at a rest area and got to walking around the rest area. And saw a bunch of deer signs. Cause it was like, he showed me, I, I, it was not too far from where I grew up. There's a rest area and it's all just like state land area. On the highway and then there was cornfields up above there. And he would get off at the rest area and park, kind of like he was at the rest area, wait till the coast was clear and then slip up in the woods and sit a tree stand at the rest area. And then get back on the highway and like go down to the next exit and sneaky little spot.

• 41:49Steven Rinella?

  I see a lot of rest areas and I wonder about that.

• 41:52Steven Rinella?

  Um, okay. Seth, you're going hunting. We're talking about that. Randall hates turkeys. Talk about that. Tick prevention. I got it. My program is dialed.

• 42:05Speaker 09

  What is it?

• 42:05Steven Rinella?

  Who wrote that down? Who wrote down?

• 42:07Speaker 09

  I did. I threw that in there.

• 42:08Steven Rinella?

  What do you do? Do you, do you feel your program is dialed?

• 42:11Speaker 09

  No, not at all. I, it's something I don't think about until I'm on the ground and then I'm like, oh man, this is. I'm going to be creeping and crawling, but I'm all, cause I don't, yeah, I don't know. All the normal things. Don't like deep. I'm always like, oh, I'm going to get that permethrin stuff and. That stuff works.

• 42:28Steven Rinella?

  I take the heavy chemical approach. And I'll tell you, I'll, I'll tell you a little bit about my background.

• 42:34Speaker 06

  Just don't inhale that when you breathe it all. I mean, when you spray it all over your.

• 42:38Steven Rinella?

  Let me tell you though, I had, um, okay. My, when my boy was three, talk about this all the time. When my boy was three, he had Lyme disease. Develop Bell's palsy. So he developed the facial paralysis, a lot, had a lot of problems.

• 42:55Steven Rinella?

  I had Lyme disease and had to go through the intravenous antibiotic treatment where they put the pick line in your heart and a fucking hose coming out of your arm, shooting those cylinders, all that shit in there every day. Had to be where, um, couldn't ride my bike, had drawn a mountain goat tag and couldn't even hunt the tag. I couldn't go down steps without holding the handrail. Driving down the road, it messes with your joints so bad. I couldn't rest on the windowsill. I couldn't rest on the center console because it was like just too like excruciating. Okay. So, uh, all that, what I'm setting up there is

• 43:34Steven Rinella?

  like the, the risk of using some chemical stuff isn't as real to me as is the risk of getting tick-borne pathogens.

• 43:43Speaker 06

  That's understandable.

• 43:44Speaker 09

  It's, it's not, oddly enough, it's the way I take care of things and like a big old deep filled canister that erodes through everything once deployed.

• 43:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 43:56Speaker 09

  Like that's my problem is like it rattles around in the back of the truck. Eventually like the cap goes off and it sprays all over everything. And then you got holes in clothing or a whole spool of fishing line.

• 44:07Steven Rinella?

  I've had tackle boxes over the years that have.

• 44:11Speaker 09

  Turn into melted plastic.

• 44:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I had it warped. I had one open up on a carrier hunting. I had one open up on my phone and actually warped my phone case, like the phone case warped.

• 44:22Speaker 04

  So you're not buying the permethrin?

• 44:24Steven Rinella?

  No, I haven't gotten to my formula yet.

• 44:26Speaker 04

  Oh, you're going double formula.

• 44:28Steven Rinella?

  I do, and it takes, it takes, it takes discipline.

• 44:32Speaker 09

  You do deep woods off.

• 44:34Steven Rinella?

  I do permethrin on my clothes and I do it like you're supposed to do it. I do it ahead of time. Like you always, you know, you, you, like I said, it takes discipline. Do it ahead of time and let it dry. Okay. So I'm not wearing the shit wet and that's how they recommend it. So I do all my clothes in permethrin. Then every morning, this is the painful part. This is the part you don't want to do because it's just, it's annoying. Every morning I do my ankles in deep.

• 45:01Steven Rinella?

  I do my waistline because of chiggers. I hate chiggers. I do my waistline and deep.

• 45:05Speaker 09

  On the, on your skin?

• 45:06Steven Rinella?

  On my skin.

• 45:07Speaker 09

  Whoa, alright.

• 45:09Steven Rinella?

  I do deep, I plaster my waistline, I plaster my ankles and deep and I got permethrin on my clothes and I'm telling you, and I am a tick chigger magnet. I have shut that shit down.

• 45:20Speaker 09

  Wow.

• 45:21Steven Rinella?

  Shut it down.

• 45:22Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 45:23Speaker 06

  Hot tip.

• 45:24Steven Rinella?

  Me and Seth did a bunch of permethrin one time. We were watching ticks climb on us and die.

• 45:28Speaker 09

  We did a bunch of permethrin.

• 45:29Steven Rinella?

  Ever that Seth?

• 45:30Speaker 09

  It was a wild time.

• 45:31Steven Rinella?

  At that music festival?

• 45:32Speaker 04

  When, uh, when Seth and I were in Pennsylvania last fall, um, woodcock hunting, like, our buddy's dog had hundreds of deer ticks on it, like, every day.

• 45:44Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:45Speaker 04

  And we were using, I was using permethrin.

• 45:47Speaker 09

  Same.

• 45:48Steven Rinella?

  It works.

• 45:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:49Speaker 09

  Yeah, and that's, that's an area where, uh, when they do tick studies, they typically come back a hundred percent positive for line.

• 45:56Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 45:56Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, when I got it, I got it in Hudson Valley and I think at the time they were saying that three quarters of all ticks had the pathogen.

• 46:03Speaker 04

  They found, I, I just read they found a tick in Montana that they believe had Lyme disease.

• 46:09Steven Rinella?

  Really? Don't say that. What kind of tick? It had, it had to be a deer tick.

• 46:14Speaker 04

  I'll, I'll have to find it.

• 46:15Speaker 09

  What about that stuff they give dogs? That always creeps me out. Dogs seem to be totally fine, but the tick

• 46:21Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 46:22Speaker 09

  goes up, bites into the dog and then dies.

• 46:25Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 46:25Speaker 09

  And drops off the dog.

• 46:28Steven Rinella?

  So me and Seth close.

• 46:29Speaker 09

  I'm like, yeah, yeah. What's the human version of that?

• 46:32Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I've thought about that. I mean, if someone could invent that for mosquitoes.

• 46:36Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 46:37Steven Rinella?

  Be a rich man.

• 46:37Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 46:39Steven Rinella?

  Um, Chili, how you doing? You're just sitting down there.

• 46:41Speaker 10

  Yeah, I'm just, yeah, people are talking.

• 46:44Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 46:44Speaker 09

  Are you gonna turkey hunt this year, Chili?

• 46:45Speaker 10

  Uh, I plan on it, yeah. I wanna go back home, back to the hills and try to, uh, get a tagger. My, I think, my brother applied it, so if he gets one, I'll probably go back with him.

• 46:55Speaker 09

  Nice.

• 46:56Speaker 10

  That's where I'd like to go.

• 46:58Speaker 09

  What, uh, what was your program? Not, not for ticks, but just for those flowing locks you're developing. Is, is it like a standalone conditioner shampoo?

• 47:08Speaker 10

  Man and tail, baby. Man, horse shampoo.

• 47:10Speaker 09

  Really? Just man and tail all the time?

• 47:12Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 47:12Speaker 09

  Yeah. You don't even need water with that?

• 47:14Speaker 10

  No, you don't.

• 47:14Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 47:15Speaker 10

  No, you just throw it on there.

• 47:17Speaker 09

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:17Speaker 10

  Lock it around outside, let it dry.

• 47:19Steven Rinella?

  He's the only guy, if I, if you had to get a permit to have long hair, he's the only guy to issue the permit to.

• 47:26Speaker 09

  I think I've told a few people this story. I cut my hair, I think, once since working here. And I cut it, like I trimmed up the mustache, cut the hair real short.

• 47:35Steven Rinella?

  Oh, it's beautiful. Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 09

  Probably as long as Randall's. And I went to the store and Steve was sitting on the couch in the store and he's working on his laptop. And he just slowly turns to me, looks at me and goes, "It's a bad move, dude."

• 47:53Speaker 09

  I was like, "Okay, I guess I'll never cut my hair again."

• 47:55Steven Rinella?

  Chili needs to look free. So that's, oh, you know, I was gonna bring that, Ticks, when we were watching, I don't know if you remember this, Seth. Me and Seth were sitting watching Ticks crawl on our clothes and fall off, like they'd pass out.

• 48:06Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 48:07Steven Rinella?

  And then we're sitting there and here comes a javelina. Do you remember this?

• 48:10Speaker 09

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:11Steven Rinella?

  Here comes a javelina walking along. Guess what the javelina's feeding on? I'm not kidding you, man. He is feeding on turkey shit.

• 48:21Speaker 09

  Just one shit, one shit after the other, just.

• 48:23Steven Rinella?

  We're just sitting there real slow. He just comes along and every time he'd find one of the little turkey shit, he'd stop and pick it up. And he was like targeting turkey shit.

• 48:31Speaker 09

  Just smacking his cheeks together. I have a video of it. It's pretty funny.

• 48:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, smacking his lips, eating turkey shit.

• 48:37Speaker 06

  Wait, that's in, that was in Texas?

• 48:40Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 48:41Speaker 06

  You guys are going back?

• 48:42Speaker 09

  We are.

• 48:42Speaker 06

  Week or week after, right?

• 48:44Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 48:45Steven Rinella?

  Okay, who knows about the South Carolina turkey deal? What is this now?

• 48:49Speaker 09

  I talked with some folks on this one last week. Actual, you know, biologists in that state.

• 49:02Steven Rinella?

  No, man, I'm looking now. I didn't know about this.

• 49:04Speaker 09

  So, well, so, but here's, here's the weird thing, okay?

• 49:09Steven Rinella?

  Woo.

• 49:10Speaker 09

  So, this would change the regulations, or it already has changed the regulations for the 2025 season to where it would no longer be legal to shoot Jake's immature toms.

• 49:22Steven Rinella?

  It's gonna cut back on my turkey harvest.

• 49:25Speaker 09

  So, that puts the onus on the hunter to identify a tom that has a beard longer than six inches and a full tail fan.

• 49:36Speaker 04

  So, it's the combination, right? Cause a lot of full-on gobblers don't have a six-inch beard.

• 49:41Speaker 09

  Right. Yep.

• 49:44Speaker 09

  And so, you're like, well, why would you take that opportunity away from people, which was my question? But, and this is the frustrating part, is...

• 49:55Speaker 09

  It's like, cause your brain kinda goes to like, well, is it like a trophy thing? Like trying to make, make bigger birds, which makes no sense in, in the bird world.

• 50:05Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, well, they banned killing longbeards.

• 50:07Speaker 09

  It is the time of year. They're not changing the season of their turkey hunt. What they're trying to do by adding this regulation is to provide more time for those birds to breed.

• 50:23Steven Rinella?

  Who to breed?

• 50:25Speaker 09

  For the, for, uh, by making people select for the toms and pass up these other birds. They're allowing more time for breeding, which, to which I responded was like, well, why don't you just adjust the whole season dates?

• 50:40Steven Rinella?

  Well, I remember Abernathy talking about this, who lives in South Carolina and him talking about that.

• 50:46Steven Rinella?

  This, this push pull between starting turkey season so early. Right? Um, and guys thinking that they're starting it too early and the, the, there's a lot of these, a lot of turkey biologists are like, dude, hunt turkeys as long as you want. Don't start early.

• 51:05Speaker 09

  Yeah. In some states.

• 51:06Steven Rinella?

  Like if you steal a day, steal a day up front, give them two days on the other end.

• 51:11Speaker 09

  Right. Plenty of states are doing that. Well, Idaho, Montana, the folks I've talked to, they're like, there's no, essentially no breeding going on by the time turkey season has started in Idaho or Montana. Like it's, the bulk of the bell curve of the breeding is completely done.

• 51:28Steven Rinella?

  What?

• 51:29Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 51:29Steven Rinella?

  There's still snow on the ground, April 15th?

• 51:32Speaker 09

  We're saying that, that the hens have been bred.

• 51:34Steven Rinella?

  What? Really?

• 51:35Speaker 09

  I'm not buying that. Yeah, don't. I'm just not. Question.

• 51:40Steven Rinella?

  Chao's not gonna, Chao's not gonna fight you. Of course, Chao's not gonna fight you this. Man, so they're, they're banning killing jakes.

• 51:47Speaker 09

  Yes.

• 51:48Steven Rinella?

  Wow.

• 51:49Speaker 09

  Yeah. Which that like, it's like, uh, not being able to kill a spike elk. Like sometimes that Jake saves the day.

• 51:58Steven Rinella?

  Here, it like, I, I understand you're trying to preserve quality of hunt. So, and like, it doesn't make any sense that you'd say, okay, I got an idea. No one can kill a long beard. People would revolt.

• 52:08Speaker 09

  Right.

• 52:09Steven Rinella?

  But I wonder if the objective, what like, if your true objective.

• 52:15Steven Rinella?

  Was to preserve like age class. Breeding turkeys. If that was the true sole objective, it would probably make, you'd probably end up saying, no, shoot all the jakes you want. Don't shoot longbeards.

• 52:27Speaker 04

  There's a lot more jakes around.

• 52:27Steven Rinella?

  But people would freak out. I would freak out.

• 52:29Speaker 09

  As we know here in Montana, if you go out opening week and you're like, God, there's a lot of jakes around. Go back to the same spot last week. Of the season, you're like, oh my God, there's so many Toms around. Magically, there's so many Toms where there used to be so many jakes.

• 52:45Speaker 04

  Looks like they also outlawed, uh, fanning and reaping on pri- on private.

• 52:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 52:50Speaker 09

  Wow.

• 52:51Steven Rinella?

  Yep. Skony, you can't fan and reap. No, you can't fan in Michigan or Skony anymore. After a few years ago.

• 52:59Speaker 09

  No idea.

• 52:59Speaker 04

  It's illegal in Pennsylvania.

• 53:00Speaker 09

  Yeah, you can't do it in Pennsylvania.

• 53:01Steven Rinella?

  So for you folks at home, what we're talking about is. There was a, uh, there is a strategy. It is a deadly, at times a deadly turkey hunting strategy.

• 53:12Steven Rinella?

  Is picture, picture yourself. You driving down the road and you come through old, old man Morgensen's, uh.

• 53:20Speaker 04

  Pasture.

• 53:20Steven Rinella?

  Pasture. And lo and behold, 10 a.m. on a Monday morning, there's just a giant gobbler out there with a couple of hens and he's just strutting his ass off.

• 53:30Speaker 09

  Out in the middle.

• 53:31Steven Rinella?

  Out in the middle. You're never gonna call him in. He's, you're never gonna like call him over to the edge. If you crawl out there, he's gonna run away. Well, what do you do? Well, you get a big old turkey fan. And you lay it down on your belly and you army crawl, holding that turkey fan up. And there's a high likelihood. If you play your cards right, you will just crawl right up to that turkey.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  Or he'll come running straight at you.

• 53:57Steven Rinella?

  He'll come running to you and then you just stick your shotgun, which I have done. You actually snake your barrel through the feathers and kind of rest it.

• 54:06Steven Rinella?

  Rested on the fan, it is deadly effective. Guys are even taking it to the point, I remember there's these dudes that are all over on social media and everybody always has a conniption, but they make a hat, a turkey fan hat.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 54:20Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:22Steven Rinella?

  And so it's like a little army helmet and they crawl around with a turkey fan hat. Now, people will look at this and bring up the very obvious point. What if someone shoots that thing?

• 54:33Speaker 09

  And if you haven't brought up this point, listen to Jordan Siller's new podcast about guy getting shot in the turkey woods.

• 54:39Speaker 03

  It's not only deadly for the turkey.

• 54:41Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and then you get like in Wyoming, you can hunt turkeys with a rifle. Can you still hunt them with a rifle in Florida? I remember they tried to get rid of it for a while. Uh, it, it could be, you know, was it Abernathy that got? We've had a couple of guys out there got shot hunting turkeys. I think Abernathy, yeah, Abernathy got shot hunting turkeys.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  I know guys that in Pennsylvania got shot.

• 55:05Steven Rinella?

  Abernathy, he lifted his foot up to rest it on a stump and the guy shot his leg.

• 55:09Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 55:10Steven Rinella?

  I think it was Abernathy. And then he's, the guy said in interviewing his shooter, he said, "Man, when you put your leg up on that stump, look just like a tom going into strut."

• 55:22Speaker 06

  Guy's got some vision problems.

• 55:25Speaker 03

  I wonder, I wonder if there's been any sort of studies done on like, or trying to figure out what it is, like triggers something in their brain that like takes over a turkey's body.

• 55:35Steven Rinella?

  When he sees that?

• 55:36Speaker 09

  When he sees that fan. Just the competition, man. I mean, that's all, that's what it's gotta be. Plus, well.

• 55:42Steven Rinella?

  It's the fluores too, man.

• 55:44Speaker 09

  They are, I don't think they're ever like more exposed than when they're in strut, right? So, um, they, you know, they completely blind themselves from having almost 360 degree vi- vision.

• 55:57Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:58Speaker 09

  Right?

• 55:58Steven Rinella?

  It's a great chance to lift your gun up.

• 56:00Speaker 09

  So that.

• 56:01Steven Rinella?

  When he turns, because he can't see you.

• 56:02Speaker 09

  Yeah. Yeah, but, but outside of that, so it's basically signaling to all other birds. Not only is it A-OK, but there's like some hot hen action over here too.

• 56:13Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:14Speaker 09

  And I think.

• 56:15Speaker 04

  You might be in a fight mood.

• 56:16Speaker 09

  I think that's the, the combination of things, right? It's like, it's a signal that it's totally safe. No predators around. And something really good's, good's happening. And that's like the, the combination.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  They just can't resist it.

• 56:29Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 05

  I was, uh, I was deer hunting in Idaho one time and it was a limited.

• 56:34Steven Rinella?

  Damn sure weren't turkey hunting.

• 56:35Speaker 05

  No, that's true. That's true. But it was a limited, limited bull elk unit and we actually met a tag holder earlier that day. They were hunting down the ridge from us and, uh, we found a big bull and we went and told him, you know, he has this bull over here and we,

• 56:53Speaker 05

  we sort of got set up to watch the bull and they popped out one of those, uh, like cow elk foldable decoys.

• 57:03Speaker 05

  Walked straight to the thing. It was like on a big, open hillside. We were on a big, open hillside and there's a little ridge between us. They walked straight towards that bull until they could get out of sight and then put the cow decoy down and shot the bull.

• 57:16Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 57:17Speaker 05

  And I was, I've never been more nervous in my life.

• 57:21Steven Rinella?

  This someone's gonna fill a cow tag on them.

• 57:22Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I don't think there were any cow tags. Like I kind of asked them about it. I was like, there, you know, are you sure there's not cow tags here? And are you sure that someone's not gonna mistake a branch behind you or anything for, for an antler? Like I just don't trust other people out there, but I've always been curious about it because it worked real well.

• 57:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 57:40Speaker 05

  But like, yeah, it was kind of, put the ice in my veins a little bit.

• 57:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Reaping is one of those things I would never send my kid out to do.

• 57:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:53Steven Rinella?

  Cause you'd be like, you know, cause just picture the news article. Yeah. It's just additional risk.

• 57:58Speaker 05

  Risk versus reward.

• 57:59Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And you'd be like, man, people would be mad at you. He did what?

• 58:07Steven Rinella?

  So you already couldn't in South Carolina in public. Now you can't on private. I think this is gonna be, my prediction when I crystal ball this, I get, this is gonna be more and more and more and more common. Yeah, I agree. In the meantime, I would advise, uh,

• 58:24Steven Rinella?

  I don't want to blame the victim here. In the meantime, I would advise people as we head out into the turkey woods this spring, just don't shoot at random tail fans.

• 58:37Speaker 04

  Or random movement.

• 58:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, kind of one of the first rules of gun safety. Yeah. Think about it a minute before shooting at fans because it might be a, it might be a reaper.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  Maybe think about, think about before you reap too.

• 58:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 58:55Speaker 03

  It's not, it's just not.

• 58:57Speaker 04

  Especially in the public.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  It's just not that smart.

• 59:00Steven Rinella?

  They give a definition. Fanning or reaping is the practice of stalking a wild turkey while hiding behind a decoy or tail fan or an image or likeness of a tail fan applied to any material. I would carry, I kind of quit. I didn't really carry it last year. I used to carry in my turkey vest. I carried a fan and if you cut a fan right, there's a way to cut it off the turkey where you can fold it out like a pack of cards and it'll fold up real nice. I would lay it out and I had a little handle even. I had like a formal little handle and I had a way you could open it up and I had two wing nuts on a handle. So when you put the, when you put the bolts, you put the, these two little bolts

• 59:41Steven Rinella?

  through the fan, it would hold the fan open. Throw a couple of wing nuts on there and it was meant to be my crawler around her. Never got shot.

• 59:51Speaker 04

  But you've stopped carrying it.

• 59:54Steven Rinella?

  I did, I did. Yeah. Um, not wanting to get shot. And then also I feel like some of the places I hunt, you can't do it. You can still do it in Montana though. Yeah. I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking Got a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person.

• 1:00:38Steven Rinella?

  Like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean and they'll get years and years of use out of a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today.

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• 1:01:27Steven Rinella?

  This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp. Holiday season is damn near upon us and my house, we've been talking about Thanksgiving and pretty soon we're going to start talking about Christmas and it could bring on a lot of stress. Also, holidays could bring on a lot of family issues and sometimes when it comes to family issues, it might be smart for you to go and find someone you can talk to about it and to help make sense out of it all. Well, insurance options may now be available nationwide with BetterHelp. With insurance, many members pay $15 or less. Some pay nothing. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 10-plus years

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• 1:02:53Steven Rinella?

  Texas. Okay, here's a Texas turkey hunting rule. This isn't terribly earth shattering. Hunters must report harvests within 24 hours for all wild turkeys in all counties. What did it used to be?

• 1:03:05Speaker 06

  I don't think you had a report. I just found that this morning. Yeah.

• 1:03:08Steven Rinella?

  No, no, you had to report.

• 1:03:10Speaker 06

  Sorry?

• 1:03:11Steven Rinella?

  I think you had to report.

• 1:03:13Speaker 06

  Hmm, maybe they shortened the time. When I went to the, the state website, I didn't, I didn't see what it was before.

• 1:03:23Speaker 10

  Are they collecting data with that? Or they just want to know if you shot one?

• 1:03:28Speaker 09

  Yeah, I think it's absolutely a way to see how many birds got swatted that year. Yeah. Yeah, I don't ever recall.

• 1:03:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:03:41Speaker 09

  Uh, submitting a report for killing a turkey in Texas.

• 1:03:46Steven Rinella?

  Here's a, here's a Florida rule coming up.

• 1:03:50Steven Rinella?

  Or Florida, this, this is a, your cow, talk about this Florida deal.

• 1:03:54Speaker 09

  What's the Florida deal?

• 1:03:55Speaker 10

  The no NR is the first three days of the season?

• 1:04:00Speaker 09

  Oh, no non-residents for turkey. Um.

• 1:04:04Steven Rinella?

  Three days.

• 1:04:05Speaker 09

  So this is a good example of, uh, states watching other states do stuff. And I think South Dakota was the first one to be like, the opening week of pheasant is for resident only. Um, unless you have private property access, I think.

• 1:04:22Speaker 10

  I believe so.

• 1:04:23Speaker 09

  Yeah. So all, all the public stuff is off limits to non-residents. And I know Montana actually has a bill where they're considering a version of that. As well, uh, North Dakota just went that way, I think. And, um, those, those, that's for upland bird species. But here's a version of it. First one that I'm aware of in the turkey hunting world. But yeah, give all the residents, uh, first crack at those toms that really like to come out and strut and rub it in your face.

• 1:04:53Speaker 10

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:55Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't, I don't know that's anything to get up in arms about.

• 1:04:58Steven Rinella?

  I can't, I mean, I don't, as a non, as a Florida non-resident, I don't like it.

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:05:03Steven Rinella?

  But I have to be honest about why I don't like it. Cause it's inconvenient to me.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:05:08Steven Rinella?

  Potentially inconvenient to me, but that's not how you can make, you can't use that as the way to make rules.

• 1:05:14Speaker 04

  It's three days of a five week season. Like, I think it's okay to give residents a little, little bone there.

• 1:05:21Steven Rinella?

  A guy that sent, a guy sent me this article and he's like, is it the end of turkey hunting in Florida? You know?

• 1:05:27Steven Rinella?

  It's a bummer. I mean, if you're a non-resident, it's a bummer, but I mean, like, dude, if I was gonna make a list of every advantage residents have over non-residents, I, I couldn't find a piece of paper long enough.

• 1:05:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Steven Rinella?

  You had to write it out on toilet paper.

• 1:05:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, it does not, uh, get me all up in a tissy, but.

• 1:05:46Steven Rinella?

  But I'd, man, if I was, if I was a resident, I'd be licking my lips.

• 1:05:52Steven Rinella?

  Dude, if, like, listen, if they came in and this state

• 1:05:56Steven Rinella?

  and said, hey, you know, from now on, first three days of elk season are residents only. First three days of deer season, residents only. Anything, anything. I'd be like, sweet.

• 1:06:07Steven Rinella?

  Because with a lot of stuff, with a lot of hunting rules, it winds up being that.

• 1:06:13Steven Rinella?

  You know, I try, like, I don't know if, I don't know if it makes sense. I've always thought there's certain, there's some things that are like moral. You know, and there's some things that don't have a moral component. They just have a, it's just like a strategic component. Like, you can't get morally upset about it. I don't view this as a moral thing. This is just like a luck or not, it's like lucky or not lucky. It's un, it's unlucky for non-residents.

• 1:06:37Speaker 04

  I think, doesn't Florida cap non-resident turkey tags at like 10%?

• 1:06:43Speaker 09

  I have no idea.

• 1:06:44Speaker 04

  I think they might.

• 1:06:45Speaker 09

  Is it like the way Montana caps?

• 1:06:49Speaker 05

  With the caps and quotation marks?

• 1:06:51Speaker 09

  Caps and quotations, yeah. Um, I, I have no idea.

• 1:06:55Steven Rinella?

  What do you mean by the caps and quotation?

• 1:06:57Speaker 09

  Well, there's this idea that the math is as simple as it sounds of like, well, yeah, there can only be 10% of all tags going to non-residents.

• 1:07:06Steven Rinella?

  Per region.

• 1:07:07Speaker 09

  But it's, it's per opportunity.

• 1:07:10Steven Rinella?

  What? What's that mean?

• 1:07:12Speaker 09

  It means that for every opportunity in that reg book.

• 1:07:17Speaker 09

  Does cows, bulls, bucks, there's 10% of every opportunity available to non-residents. And then if there's leftover opportunities, they they're open to whoever wants those leftover opportunities.

• 1:07:33Speaker 05

  And there's ways, there are certain categories of tags available to non-residents that don't count against that 10%. Like if you have, like the come home to hunt program.

• 1:07:44Steven Rinella?

  That doesn't count.

• 1:07:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, or the, like the Montana, I think they call it Montana native. So if you're born in Montana, but live out of state, that doesn't count. I think like the college students that are here, like they're they've created all these carve outs that don't count against that 10% number.

• 1:07:59Speaker 09

  Yeah, I'm not sure what happens if if you are specific. Yeah, if you're specifically going with an outfitter, I'm not sure where that lands either, but.

• 1:08:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's it's it's not a hard cap.

• 1:08:12Speaker 09

  Yeah, yeah. And then like a state like Idaho, who's like same kind of rules, right? There's like a whole landowner pool and a whole outfitter pool. And the math doesn't ever really work in the way that we think it does. Kind of like the national debt.

• 1:08:37Steven Rinella?

  There is a, Cal, we're gonna talk, we're you get, we're gonna have you talk about another one in a minute. We're jumping around state to state. Do we do we want to talk about the California thing? Or is it too complicated?

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  I think we should find out what happened.

• 1:08:52Speaker 09

  It's it's pretty easy. So marine protected areas, okay, of which many exist in the state of California. With various states of of protections within an MPA, marine protect protected area, going from you can still do fishing and recreation to you can't have a boat in there type of spectrum, right?

• 1:09:19Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:09:19Speaker 09

  And and no take of wildlife.

• 1:09:22Steven Rinella?

  And do they move around, right? Like they open one, close it, open one.

• 1:09:26Speaker 09

  Well, that that's an idea.

• 1:09:30Speaker 09

  That started at the beginning of the MPA idea. Now we're in the decadal review period of time. And that's where like the crazy politics come in because it started as this like, oh, this is going to get done really quick and there's only a couple of people on the Marine Fisheries Commission that are going to take care of the whole thing. And people, once they started to learn what was at stake and all the proposals to expand MPAs and have like the most serious restrictions, like no boating, no fishing.

• 1:10:13Speaker 09

  Then they were like, oh, no, no, no, this is a big deal. So now the amount of people paying attention is a lot larger. So it's like the full Marine Fisheries Commission versus just, just two members of the commission.

• 1:10:29Speaker 09

  And yeah, it's, it's a huge access, just flat out access to the ocean issue. And it's a huge access to, to fishing and food issue too. And, and it, and it, yeah, runs the gamut of like,

• 1:10:49Speaker 09

  you know, are we protecting the visual?

• 1:10:56Speaker 09

  Like the property values of very wealthy homeowners? Are we doing so at the degradation of marginalized communities' ability to go fish? Are we, there's all sorts of things that this gets into. But where we're at right now is you can still comment on MPAs. There's a lot of petitions out there and it is not going to get solved anytime real soon. But you need to be aware that a lot of access and fishing opportunity, sometimes even like surfing opportunity is at stake right now in the state of California.

• 1:11:36Speaker 09

  I went and dove a walk-in spot last year out of Big Sur. And it was.

• 1:11:46Speaker 09

  Frickin gorgeous.

• 1:11:47Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:49Speaker 09

  And fairly, I, I mean, I'm sure some people would think it, it's fairly dangerous. Like it's right next to like a juvenile white shark, uh, area and, um, really cool spot. But that spot that nobody was down there using except for us, uh, is, would be a, a place that would be closed to expand a marine protected area.

• 1:12:15Steven Rinella?

  Really?

• 1:12:15Speaker 04

  So basically all you could do is walk up and down the beach and nothing else.

• 1:12:19Speaker 09

  With like the most extreme level of, of MPA.

• 1:12:22Speaker 04

  Like public access beaches.

• 1:12:24Speaker 09

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:12:26Steven Rinella?

  I think they should ban everything but fishing.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:29Speaker 09

  And, and that's the thing is they, there's all sorts of arguments here of like, well, we want to protect areas for kelp because the kelp forests have been in such crazy decline. But there's no evidence to suggest that MPAs have helped kelp at all. Um, the, the fishing argument, um, you know, it's fishing regulations, not necessarily MPAs that are gonna, uh, have a factor in, in the health of your fishery. So i- i- it's, it's really interesting, but it is like your, your public opportunity that's at stake there. So you need, need to get engaged.

• 1:13:13Speaker 09

  Um, and like California BHA has been really good on this as well as what is MAP? Bonds, allwaters.org. Those, those folks have been really good on this and they're putting out great information, uh, and they're getting people to all of these meetings. Um, so connect, connect with one of those groups, um, and, and learn more and see where you fit in.

• 1:13:43Speaker 04

  Who are the people that are pushing for it?

• 1:13:45Steven Rinella?

  I'm gonna hit you with a bunch of quotes. Ready? This is all quotes from the meeting. One of the meetings about this Laguna Beach expansion. Someone says, "The current MPA in Laguna is a 10-mile fishing closure." Wow. 10 mile fishing closure. So they already got a 10 mile closer. This guy saying at the meeting, he says, "The current MPA in Laguna is a 10 mile fishing closure significantly impacting our fishing area, not just for us, but for all local fishing boats as well as lobster fishermen.

• 1:14:19Steven Rinella?

  While we have all supported the existing MPA in Laguna Beach and have adapted to that closure over time, we remain opposed to any further expansion. And really, we were very shocked to even see this proposal at all." Someone in favor of it says, "This extent, extension is a crucial step towards strengthening marine protection, preserving biodiversity, and ensuring the long-term health of our coastal ecosystems."

• 1:14:50Steven Rinella?

  A guy, another guy had this to say, "We just want to make it simple for people that this is a no fishing zone. There's plenty of other places to fish."

• 1:15:02Steven Rinella?

  That's a guy at the meeting. Another guy at the meeting, "We'd like to have one little section of coastline where we can still enjoy ourselves, go fish and catch stuff and dive and have a good time."

• 1:15:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, because the proposed extension would make Laguna Beach's southern coast completely off limits to fishing.

• 1:15:22Steven Rinella?

  Another guy at the meeting, "Don't take another healthy thing away from us and don't take food out of people's mouths."

• 1:15:32Speaker 09

  And, and so like that quote of like, "Oh, there's plenty of other places to fish," right? Like, that's a great example of, um, it's like, well, are those places available to who? Just folks with a big fancy boat? And it's this coastal access component that, uh, people are really, you know, because there's, there's so many people go out and fish on the piers, but that type of fishing is not necessarily for everybody, right? Um, and yeah, so lots of, lots of arguments here. And they've made a lot of good, like grassroots steps into making

• 1:16:14Speaker 09

  sure, uh, a lot of these other communities with a vested interest in, in fishing and, and public access are actually getting a seat at the, at the table, which is great.

• 1:16:26Steven Rinella?

  Okay, we return for a minute to this, um, this, this turkey thing. The South Carolina one? Sorry, the Florida deal? Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:36Steven Rinella?

  Proposed draft rule language. Okay. So the point of this was that you can let your voice be heard.

• 1:16:48Steven Rinella?

  And you could, you could, here's an email address [email protected]. But would you, this is just a question.

• 1:16:58Steven Rinella?

  Would you feel funny?

• 1:17:02Steven Rinella?

  As a dude from another state, writing the wildlife commissioners in Florida, giving your two cents?

• 1:17:11Steven Rinella?

  Anybody can take the survey.

• 1:17:14Steven Rinella?

  There you go. So here's a, there's someone drafted so a note here, a guy that wrote us into us drafted a way. Here's some things you could say in voicing your concerns. You talk about wild turkey populations in Florida are not in jeopardy. Okay.

• 1:17:35Steven Rinella?

  Talk about there's no, there's no concern for the resource hunter satisfaction was reported as good or excellent by 63% of surveyed participants.

• 1:17:47Steven Rinella?

  In 2023, non-residents funded over half of all turkey related license costs.

• 1:17:57Steven Rinella?

  But they're only 22% of participating hunters. Okay, so half of the funding for licenses came from 22% of the hunters. And residents are already gobbling up 90% of special turkey hunt opportunities.

• 1:18:14Steven Rinella?

  Gobbling up? That was good. Hmm. God, did I just make that up? I did make that up. No. I didn't even mean to. Something's in the air. Spring thunder. Mm hmm. Norovirus.

• 1:18:28Steven Rinella?

  I've had that.

• 1:18:31Steven Rinella?

  I don't think I have that right now.

• 1:18:34Steven Rinella?

  So yeah, you can still let your voice be heard, but I would feel very funny writing in being like, as it cause you're kind of like, uh, you kind of like, like, like all your cards are on the table. You know, like, hey, you know, as a non resident, here's my thing.

• 1:18:49Steven Rinella?

  Like, how many dudes from out of state are writing in to say, I think this sounds like a fantastic idea?

• 1:18:55Speaker 04

  I think the first three days should be for non residents.

• 1:18:59Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I got that. I got a counter proposal. How about I just get to hunt for three days?

• 1:19:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Cal, what's Habitat Montana? What's up with that? This is, we're doing, we're, this is nothing to do with turkeys.

• 1:19:13Speaker 09

  Hey, yeah. So basically, uh, Habitat Montana is a big fund.

• 1:19:21Steven Rinella?

  Can I interrupt you real quick?

• 1:19:22Speaker 09

  Yes, sir.

• 1:19:22Steven Rinella?

  Brody, why'd you dump all the weeds out?

• 1:19:24Speaker 04

  I didn't dump that out.

• 1:19:25Speaker 06

  Can you pass it over here?

• 1:19:26Speaker 04

  Just fell out.

• 1:19:27Speaker 06

  I would love to have some more.

• 1:19:28Speaker 04

  Here, serve it up on that.

• 1:19:30Speaker 09

  Steve, will you rub your hands all over that stuff and then pass it?

• 1:19:33Speaker 06

  I mean, I was already sick, so we're just passing it back.

• 1:19:36Steven Rinella?

  I was contagious long time ago.

• 1:19:37Speaker 04

  It's good on that salmon as a little seasoning. Here. Corinne?

• 1:19:43Speaker 06

  Oh, thanks, bro.

• 1:19:46Speaker 06

  Gave me the scraps from the table.

• 1:19:48Steven Rinella?

  Okay, sorry. Habitat Montana.

• 1:19:50Speaker 09

  Yeah. Darn it, where's the other thing here? Anyway, Habitat Montana is a Habitat Fund. Right? It's set aside specifically to address, um, are like state parks maintenance. Um, funding for habitat work that can address like non game species. Specifically, so it's, it's, um, nice to have that because then, you know, your hunter angler dollars, you're like, oh yeah, that's just going to go more towards game species. Um.

• 1:20:29Speaker 09

  And access easements as well, right? So like getting habitat easements on working timberlands or agriculture grounds. So it doesn't get developed and gobbled up and turned into something non-wildlife producing. This is something in 2020, I think we voted on. It's really the reason that there's like recreational marijuana sales in Montana because they tied the taxes associated with the sale of recreational marijuana to this big outdoor habitat recreation fund called Habitat Montana.

• 1:21:10Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:21:13Speaker 09

  It got whittled away at a little bit because obviously people were like, oh my gosh, that's a lot of weed money out there. We could use for all sorts of things. So the last legislative session, some cash got carved out of it. And now we have House Bill 307. That's happening right now. It's in play right now in the state of Montana.

• 1:21:32Steven Rinella?

  Just looking to shit can the whole thing.

• 1:21:33Speaker 09

  It would basically suck Philly, you know. What's that great movie that we used to laugh about the, "I take a straw."

• 1:21:45Speaker 09

  There you go.

• 1:21:48Speaker 09

  Exactly.

• 1:21:49Steven Rinella?

  Have you seen?

• 1:21:49Speaker 07

  I drink it. Drink your milk. I'm a weed man.

• 1:21:55Steven Rinella?

  There's like a spoof on it called "There'll Be Bud."

• 1:21:59Steven Rinella?

  They do the whole trailer on a campus and it's all like a guy trying to gobble up the weed market on a campus. And he's like, "I clear your bong rip."

• 1:22:12Speaker 09

  Which is very appropriate because we're dealing with weed money here, right? So anyway, voters in Montana came together, said, "This is what we want." Got whittled away last session. And now in this session, it's going, if HB 307 were to pass, it would remove this funding.

• 1:22:33Steven Rinella?

  To what end? To use it for something different?

• 1:22:35Speaker 09

  To use it for something different, which doesn't really even, we don't even need to talk about because the state's operating at a surplus right now. So there's lots of money that could be used. This is money that's earmarked for Habitat. And then we put it in the context of what's happening with the federal government right now. If the funding freezes and the fact that there is a huge question mark around federal funding that is typically available for Habitat work. Like, this state fund is very important.

• 1:23:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:09Speaker 09

  We're seeing a huge increase in the population here in Montana and a huge increase of the overall population that is using state lands. Um, so

• 1:23:22Steven Rinella?

  And weed.

• 1:23:23Speaker 09

  And weed, apparently. Yeah, so, um, we need it.

• 1:23:28Steven Rinella?

  I was trying to explain a little bit this day or day to someone. We're having a conversation about state funding mechanisms and I'm like, with the feds kind of setting the clock back to 1895 in terms of attitude towards natural resources, um, this is going to become even more important.

• 1:23:46Speaker 09

  More important and we're just seeing increased use too. So, um, yeah, it's, it's a bummer that some folks think that this is a good idea right now. Um, recent polling data says 71% of Montana households use public lands and trails. And this is our only like state funding mechanism set aside to address this stuff. And it's been like wildly successful the way it's been used so far. Uh, we completely eliminated the, um, state parks maintenance backlog, uh, out of this fund. So instead of you, like you're hunting and angling dollars going

• 1:24:25Speaker 09

  to things that, uh, probably folks in this room don't use quite as much as, as, uh, the retirees

• 1:24:32Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:32Speaker 09

  out there. Um, we kind of like the fact that our hunting and angling dollars are addressing the things that we want, not, um, some of the things that are being addressed in this, um, Habitat for Montana Fund.

• 1:24:46Steven Rinella?

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• 1:25:30Steven Rinella?

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• 1:27:22Steven Rinella?

  You know what would be helpful to a citizen such as myself is whenever you see a proposal, like we're always covering like proposals, let you know, there should be a way that,

• 1:27:36Steven Rinella?

  you know, like, there should be a graphic that goes with proposals and it'd be like the fire risk.

• 1:27:45Steven Rinella?

  Cause you know, like, like the other day, some gal from Florida introduces legislation to put like Trump on, on Mount Rushmore. Okay. So what it would be is that graphic would be there and the graphic would be like at all the way to the left, meaning this will never happen. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like, it's someone just doing a thing to, well, in that case, it's just like, it's just someone being like a sycophant, right? They're like, they're like doing a gesture like, hey, look, look at me, look how loyal I am, you know? And it's not serious. Like, it's not gonna happen. Yeah. It's not serious. It's like a lot of PETA's work. Yeah, like PETA stuff like, oh, yeah.

• 1:28:30Steven Rinella?

  Here's a billboard. Here's a bill to ban people from being able to say, you got your, your cart before the horse or whatever, you know, like to ban any kind of animal expression. So if you could just be at home and see a bill and it would just tell you or there's an app that you could scan, you could like take a photo of legal language and the app would be like, this is like a not thing. This is a non thing. It's someone, it's a gesture. It's someone trying to make headlines.

• 1:29:02Speaker 09

  Yep. Don't burn your brain thinking about this.

• 1:29:04Speaker 05

  And it happens, it happens on both sides that someone will introduce some sort of frivolous legislation and then you see a bunch of headlines about it because the people on the other side want to bash that idea publicly. And it's like, oh, let's just pay attention to more serious things.

• 1:29:20Speaker 09

  Right. It just sucks the bandwidth out of it. Yeah.

• 1:29:23Steven Rinella?

  And then that's when you hear people be like, now they're trying to.

• 1:29:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:29:29Steven Rinella?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:29:30Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:30Steven Rinella?

  It's like, yeah, like PETA does stuff just to get like, PETA does things just to egg on.

• 1:29:38Speaker 09

  Mm hmm. And hopefully get a headline.

• 1:29:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, to egg people on.

• 1:29:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:29:42Steven Rinella?

  You know, and so they'll do a thing like this has zero chance in hell, but they'll do it because also in there they are in the headlines.

• 1:29:48Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:48Steven Rinella?

  And it was like that, that Mount Rushmore thing. You know, it's funny. I looked up and um, I was trying to picture Mount Rushmore. I was like, would you put it on the right looker's right or looker's left? But geologists say just you can't.

• 1:29:59Speaker 05

  There's no.

• 1:30:00Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:30:00Steven Rinella?

  There's no, there's no like, no, this, the rock's not suitable. They kind of use, someone's got to go.

• 1:30:05Speaker 09

  Um, this is, this is what I was looking for. Just so, uh, folks know it's not just here in Montana. Like if, if you're, you recreate Montana, uh, you live here, that right in, ask your, uh, state representative to, to vote no, or even a no vote, but in a vote no on HB 307, uh, we need dedicated habitat funding. It's the only thing that we have right now. But over in Wisconsin, there's a similar bill that would, um,

• 1:30:40Speaker 09

  Would basically stop the Knowles Nelson stewardship program, which was created in 1989. Um, people are really organized and aware of this one, uh, including Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, the Safari Club, uh, have all come together to, uh, make sure the Knowles Nelson stewardship program is renewed. Um, and there's some, some lawmakers over there that are saying, uh, that they're going to stop it because it's just funding that they don't think should exist.

• 1:31:16Speaker 04

  Um, is there, is there examples in other states where, where the, the, like funds like these weed tax funds or like a lottery sales where that, that were dedicated towards public lands, wildlife, et cetera, where they've been raided and put elsewhere?

• 1:31:37Speaker 09

  Oh, I think there's, there's a, a ton of examples.

• 1:31:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:31:40Speaker 09

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, right. Like look at, look at, uh, the state of Missouri. Missouri's considered to have like a phenomenal, um, wildlife funding mechanism because they have an actual state tax, right? But literally the year after that tax was implemented, there were people trying to shut that thing down. And every year, people attempt to divert funds from, you know, what many people consider to be like one of the best

• 1:32:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:08Speaker 09

  wildlife programs in the U.S. Um, but another one, uh, New Mexico has like a sovereign wealth fund that's, uh, um, taxes out of energy, which is a fund that, uh, renews itself and grows. And then that funding basically secures, um, or is secure for like their school programs. Um, so that, that'd be a version of, of what this Habitat for Montana fund is, um, that is, uh, successful. So.

• 1:32:44Steven Rinella?

  That's baked into the Restoration Wildlife Act or the Pittman Robertson Fund. They baked into it language. And it's called like so-and-so's 20 words or something like that, right? There's like a name for it where it's, excuse me.

• 1:33:07Steven Rinella?

  It's ba- like, it's written into the rule that you can't pillage it.

• 1:33:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:33:12Steven Rinella?

  Cause, cause anytime someone sees a little pot of money, they wanna go get it.

• 1:33:16Speaker 05

  And I, I'm not sure about Missouri, but like in, at least in Montana, I mean, that was part of the, that's like what people voted on. Like, we're gonna do weed, but the weed money's gonna go here.

• 1:33:24Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33:25Speaker 05

  You know, and I believe that the same is true of the sales tax in Missouri, is that like, it was, wasn't it a public?

• 1:33:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, total, total bipartisan.

• 1:33:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it's like, this is part of the deal, and then as soon as, as soon as people get on the same page, somebody else is trying to do the run around behind the back and spend that money elsewhere.

• 1:33:46Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I've, I've always been like, like, all this legalizing weed rules, I could give a shit. I don't know what was so bad about hiding in the bushes.

• 1:33:56Steven Rinella?

  But I'm like, well, yeah, man, if you're gonna use it for conservation money, then, um.

• 1:34:01Speaker 04

  It's a lot of money.

• 1:34:02Steven Rinella?

  Sure, go get high.

• 1:34:02Speaker 04

  It's a lot of money.

• 1:34:04Steven Rinella?

  Fry your brain.

• 1:34:04Speaker 04

  Do you still, do you, is your theory still hold true, like, about democratic and republican states, like legalization?

• 1:34:12Steven Rinella?

  That, that legalizing weed is, is, yeah. Like, that lefty states were quicker to legalize weed, of course.

• 1:34:21Speaker 04

  I, I'm just wondering.

• 1:34:22Steven Rinella?

  Well, I mean, isn't that just like, accepted as reality?

• 1:34:25Speaker 04

  I know, but we kinda, we kinda showed that it wasn't necessarily that the case.

• 1:34:29Steven Rinella?

  Well, I think over time, perhaps, but early on.

• 1:34:32Speaker 05

  Wyoming's still holding strong, I believe.

• 1:34:34Steven Rinella?

  They don't want you smoking weed?

• 1:34:35Speaker 05

  I believe so. I'm out over my skis here.

• 1:34:41Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:34:43Speaker 09

  I drink it up.

• 1:34:46Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:48Steven Rinella?

  Who else has got something?

• 1:34:52Speaker 06

  Someone's gotta take me turkey hunting this season.

• 1:34:57Speaker 09

  That's my thing. I want everybody to know that Corinne's the only person in the office who'll just put, we have like, internal communication thing called Slack, and she'll just put out there, "Does anybody have any pheasant spots they want to give me?"

• 1:35:16Speaker 05

  She just puts it right out.

• 1:35:18Speaker 09

  I know. The thing is, like, she absolutely knows it's not an appropriate question.

• 1:35:24Speaker 05

  See, I'm...

• 1:35:25Speaker 09

  But she doesn't care, either. It's like, somebody'll break.

• 1:35:29Speaker 05

  I put on the charade of just going, "Well, never killed a turkey," just putting that out there.

• 1:35:34Steven Rinella?

  Throw it out there.

• 1:35:34Speaker 05

  But I don't, you know, then follow up with the direct ask. Just sort of seed that thought.

• 1:35:40Speaker 09

  Don't you have some special gun you're gonna use for your first turkey?

• 1:35:43Speaker 05

  If I can get it back from the gunsmith.

• 1:35:46Speaker 09

  Great big one?

• 1:35:47Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. When you were talking, I wasn't, I was only, I was only half-listening when you were...

• 1:35:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:35:51Steven Rinella?

  Because I wanted to tease you about shooting flintlock.

• 1:35:53Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:35:54Steven Rinella?

  What is the gun you're making?

• 1:35:56Speaker 05

  It's a, it's a very silly story, but it's, it's a, it's like a German imported version of a, a submachine gun that's civilian legal, so it's got a 16-inch barrel, and the lower unit is different, so you can get a trigger group from the real deal, make some modifications, mill some things, replace some parts, slap it in there, and then you get a little...

• 1:36:20Steven Rinella?

  A little what?

• 1:36:20Speaker 05

  A little bullet hoe, a little bullet hose.

• 1:36:23Steven Rinella?

  And it's fully automatic?

• 1:36:25Speaker 05

  No, no. It's just, it resembles the real thing.

• 1:36:29Speaker 09

  We were talking about...

• 1:36:30Steven Rinella?

  I thought you were breaking a law for a minute.

• 1:36:31Speaker 05

  No, no, no, this is all above board.

• 1:36:33Speaker 09

  That's a, yeah.

• 1:36:34Speaker 05

  It's, I mean...

• 1:36:35Speaker 09

  That's a big, that's a big law to break.

• 1:36:37Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, this is very self-conscious, but this is just, uh...

• 1:36:41Speaker 09

  And you're gonna use that machine gun for turkey?

• 1:36:44Speaker 05

  No, no, no. It's just a silly little, uh, fun project that I'll probably end up selling as soon as I finish it. Um, this is one.

• 1:36:53Steven Rinella?

  Cal could give a shit about it.

• 1:36:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, I know. Yeah.

• 1:36:56Steven Rinella?

  I've never seen Cal.

• 1:36:57Speaker 03

  He's got more stuff to read.

• 1:36:58Steven Rinella?

  I've never seen Cal less interested.

• 1:37:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:37:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I would have more interest in talking about rewiring a camper trailer that's currently currently sitting in your barn.

• 1:37:08Steven Rinella?

  We can do that.

• 1:37:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's that's more more fun to me. Yeah. It's like, oh, you're buying parts and putting them together? That's cool.

• 1:37:13Steven Rinella?

  I couldn't believe how little he cared about what you were talking about.

• 1:37:16Speaker 03

  I think if you shot this thing, you would care more about it.

• 1:37:19Speaker 05

  Hidden Robertson dollars, great. I love it.

• 1:37:21Steven Rinella?

  You know what?

• 1:37:21Speaker 03

  It's gonna be wild.

• 1:37:22Steven Rinella?

  What I was feeling, Cal was feeling complete indifference.

• 1:37:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:37:26Steven Rinella?

  What I was feeling is a little out of the out of the loop.

• 1:37:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, it's.

• 1:37:30Steven Rinella?

  To be like that, that I'm like, am I like, how could I not know what he's talking about?

• 1:37:34Speaker 05

  It's sort of a very.

• 1:37:35Steven Rinella?

  I was getting a little jealous.

• 1:37:36Speaker 05

  A very niche, uh, gun subculture. I've always been curious about about these.

• 1:37:43Steven Rinella?

  When you say these, what do you mean?

• 1:37:46Speaker 05

  This this it's a it's.

• 1:37:48Speaker 03

  Just tell them what it is.

• 1:37:49Speaker 05

  It's an HK USC and the UMP is the original sort of law enforcement version. But you can do these modifications and put a folding stock on it.

• 1:38:01Steven Rinella?

  What's Ms. Williams think about all this?

• 1:38:03Speaker 05

  She thinks it's really stupid.

• 1:38:04Steven Rinella?

  Hmm. How much are you gonna have into this?

• 1:38:09Speaker 05

  Let's just keep that.

• 1:38:10Speaker 03

  That's not a great question.

• 1:38:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's all. Those are all imaginary numbers, you know?

• 1:38:15Speaker 03

  You should. What you should ask is how much does he stand to make off of this? Once he completes his little build.

• 1:38:22Steven Rinella?

  How much are you gonna make, Randall?

• 1:38:23Speaker 05

  I don't know. I don't know. Um, I think it'll be, I think it'll be more than I put into it.

• 1:38:30Steven Rinella?

  So this is like a for profit. You're like a gun dealer.

• 1:38:34Speaker 05

  No, I wouldn't say that. We're using terms here that have certain legal implications, so.

• 1:38:39Speaker 03

  I think.

• 1:38:39Speaker 05

  He's a custom gun dealer.

• 1:38:41Speaker 03

  I'm trying to convince Randall to never sell gun. Don't sell guns. I'm in that camp.

• 1:38:45Steven Rinella?

  I always regret it when I do. No, that's not true. I used to, but now I don't.

• 1:38:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, I've got a whole, I mean, sometimes I play a game with my buddy where we try to name every gun that we've bought and sold. And we have a spreadsheet going, but it's still incomplete because we can't get there. Just a weird hobby, you know, some, there's some guys that are like really into cars. Mm hmm. Some guys that are really into stamps. But this will be fun. I'll, I'll have the little project and then I can use it as a little plinker at the range for a little while and then maybe it goes down the road. Maybe I.

• 1:39:16Speaker 09

  I used to keep it.

• 1:39:17Speaker 05

  Maybe I hang on to it.

• 1:39:19Speaker 09

  Um.

• 1:39:22Speaker 09

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:23Speaker 05

  I.

• 1:39:24Speaker 09

  Do you want to keep going?

• 1:39:25Speaker 05

  For the record, I didn't bring this up, Cal. No, it's true. I brought it up. I've tried to change the subject several times. You do seem like you don't want to talk about it. Yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, it's one of those things that I'd sort of do compulsively. And I think if I, if I were, uh, if I were better able to control my impulses, I'd probably make more practical decisions with the guns that I buy and sell, but. You know, that's just me and something that I live with every day. When I look at myself in the mirror, I don't always like what I see.

• 1:39:57Speaker 09

  Too hard on yourself.

• 1:39:58Speaker 05

  Cal, go ahead. What were you gonna say when you got bored with Randall?

• 1:40:00Speaker 09

  Senate Joint Resolution 25 dash 009, Protection of Colorado's Public Land. So this just happened. Yesterday, we're very timely.

• 1:40:11Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:11Speaker 09

  Right, but it is a bipartisan, two, two Democrats, two Republicans in the state of Colorado.

• 1:40:18Speaker 09

  Pushed through S J R 25 dash 009, which, um, is a joint resolution. That says, uh, Colorado will not, uh, support the sale or privatization or transfer of the 22 million acres of public land in the state of Colorado. Uh, so this is in response to a bunch of the stuff that we've been covering over the last couple of months. Um, Utah's lawsuit, which is gonna be resubmitted here pretty quick.

• 1:40:52Speaker 05

  No, really?

• 1:40:53Speaker 09

  Yeah, um. Uh, so, so great proactive move from the state of Colorado. Um, again, they have 22 million acres of federally managed land in that state. Um, and, uh, saying that they're against, uh, sale or transfer of public lands, which is great news for folks who like to go outside and do stuff. In a free America.

• 1:41:15Speaker 05

  And so with my little fire chart showing likelihood of advancing, where does this one fit?

• 1:41:21Speaker 09

  This one's through.

• 1:41:22Speaker 05

  It's through?

• 1:41:22Speaker 09

  In the state of Colorado, yeah. Also in Colorado, the, that one we were talking about where they were going to change the language of how hunting would be used.

• 1:41:31Steven Rinella?

  May and shall.

• 1:41:32Speaker 09

  That got tabled, so it's dead for the year.

• 1:41:35Steven Rinella?

  You know what? I figured, I had that pegged as a low. When I developed my app, it'll be like a low probability.

• 1:41:44Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:41:45Steven Rinella?

  That seemed like a gesture. That seemed like grandstanding.

• 1:41:48Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:50Speaker 04

  But every now and then, there's a dry windy day, you know, proverb, like figuratively speaking.

• 1:41:56Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:57Speaker 04

  Right?

• 1:41:57Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:41:58Speaker 04

  Did you like that?

• 1:41:59Speaker 09

  Yeah, I really did. I really did. Um. I, I got a gun build going on right now, too. Steve, I finally sent you that guy's info.

• 1:42:09Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:09Speaker 09

  And we're not going to talk about him on, on this show because I don't want to get him backed up too much with gun orders.

• 1:42:15Steven Rinella?

  Cause you gotta work on your gun.

• 1:42:16Speaker 09

  This is the, uh. Yeah, my new, new Flintlock. Yeah, I'm not saying names. Steve Watts percussion cap. I'm gonna go with the Flintlock. That's, that's weak shit.

• 1:42:25Steven Rinella?

  Bullshit. Let me tell you what I want. I, I did a call out on this and I'm gonna do another call out on it. I want a single trigger.

• 1:42:35Speaker 09

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:42:36Steven Rinella?

  Percussion cap.

• 1:42:37Speaker 09

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:42:39Steven Rinella?

  Tac driver.

• 1:42:40Speaker 09

  Hmm, without the set trigger, air trigger deal. I know a company.

• 1:42:45Steven Rinella?

  Single, yeah, single trigger.

• 1:42:46Speaker 09

  You just want like a three pound trigger.

• 1:42:49Steven Rinella?

  A three pound trigger.

• 1:42:50Speaker 09

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:42:50Steven Rinella?

  I don't want that stupid second trigger on there.

• 1:42:56Steven Rinella?

  Just percussion cap, single trigger, but a tac driver. And I'm willing to pay.

• 1:43:03Speaker 09

  Yep, I have yet to participate. I guess we did do like a, where the hell were we? Nebraska or Iowa or someplace trying to hunt things with muzzleloaders?

• 1:43:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, those are in modern inlines.

• 1:43:15Speaker 09

  Right.

• 1:43:15Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I like those things.

• 1:43:16Speaker 09

  So that's, but that's the only thing I have, no, we, plus we shot Seek a Deer a good jillion years ago.

• 1:43:22Steven Rinella?

  Inlines.

• 1:43:22Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:43:22Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, you did that with, you didn't even have a scope on yours.

• 1:43:26Speaker 09

  No, no.

• 1:43:27Speaker 04

  Steve was over there shooting away across the marsh, just leveling them.

• 1:43:31Speaker 09

  Those things come with scopes? Anyway, um, real excited. I've yet to participate in Montana's heritage season. Well, she's hanging with me. Come here, Hanny. Yeah, um.

• 1:43:44Speaker 03

  So I'm doing the sensible thing and building up a rifle. That is gonna be super awesome, so I can go effectively lay the smack down this this coming heritage season with whatever tags I have left in my pocket.

• 1:43:58Steven Rinella?

  Single trigger. Go ahead. Fifty cal, single trigger, fifty cal, three pound pole. Percussion cap.

• 1:44:07Speaker 05

  I'm a percussion cap man now.

• 1:44:09Speaker 03

  That's like the old.

• 1:44:10Steven Rinella?

  Old timey, it doesn't need to look old timey, it just it's it's Montana legal.

• 1:44:16Speaker 03

  That's like the old.

• 1:44:16Steven Rinella?

  Barely legal.

• 1:44:18Speaker 03

  The TC Pennsylvania Hunter, that's exactly what you're looking for.

• 1:44:26Steven Rinella?

  Single trigger percussion?

• 1:44:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:28Speaker 04

  Now with percussion caps, you still gotta walk around with a plastic bag over the top?

• 1:44:33Steven Rinella?

  Hunter if it's percussion, because you can't use it in Pennsylvania.

• 1:44:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, you can.

• 1:44:36Steven Rinella?

  No, you can only use flintlock.

• 1:44:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, listen, it's a it's a model that Thompson Center made. They, all the ones I've ever seen have been flintlocks. But they make them in, or they used to, they don't make them anymore.

• 1:44:51Steven Rinella?

  Is it still available, single trigger percussion?

• 1:44:54Speaker 03

  You'd probably have to find one somewhere. I don't know, TC's getting fired back up again, so maybe they're gonna start making them.

• 1:44:58Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Oh, you wanna know something interesting that happened to me and Dr. Randall? Two things.

• 1:45:05Steven Rinella?

  When we're in Wyoming, we're about ready to wrap up, Phil.

• 1:45:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's great. Put your hand on the switch there.

• 1:45:11Steven Rinella?

  Um, when we're in Wyoming, we went, so we went to these archaeologist's office. And one thing that happened, the minute we walked in the door, I don't know if you remember this, Randall. We walk into an archaeologist's office, and immediately I look and there's a giant dinosaur bone on the floor. Like a giant femur of a dinosaur. And I said something to the effect of, good lord. What's that? And he said, that's a rock. And I said, oh, I thought it was a dinosaur bone. And he said, that's what the guy that gave it to me thought it was.

• 1:45:51Steven Rinella?

  And he's offered it to us.

• 1:45:53Speaker 09

  Yeah, he said, if you want to get it out of here, it's all yours.

• 1:45:57Steven Rinella?

  Here's the interesting part. These guys are doing an excavation of Fort Bonneville. So like an 1830s mountain man site. And they're showing us just a little like scraps of metal. I mean, there's not much there. Like you could tell that metal was coveted. Like nothing gets thrown away. But a bunch of little old, like old, but what would have been very brand new.

• 1:46:22Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:46:23Steven Rinella?

  Is a bunch of percussion caps. That came off this site.

• 1:46:27Speaker 09

  And they look.

• 1:46:28Steven Rinella?

  Just like a.

• 1:46:29Speaker 09

  Yeah, really.

• 1:46:30Steven Rinella?

  Dude. They look just like a little, yeah, just like a, like a percussion cap.

• 1:46:35Speaker 04

  Not, were they fired or unfired?

• 1:46:37Steven Rinella?

  Fired percussion caps.

• 1:46:38Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:46:39Steven Rinella?

  Fired percussion caps.

• 1:46:41Speaker 09

  Yeah, that, that was cool.

• 1:46:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So you're looking at.

• 1:46:43Speaker 09

  In the infancy of.

• 1:46:45Steven Rinella?

  It would have been cutting edge technology.

• 1:46:46Speaker 09

  Yeah. That's cool.

• 1:46:48Speaker 04

  Was it the Hawken brothers that came up with percussion caps?

• 1:46:52Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 1:46:52Speaker 04

  No?

• 1:46:53Speaker 09

  I wonder if those percussion caps worked.

• 1:46:56Steven Rinella?

  Well, they definitely did, man. They definitely did.

• 1:46:59Speaker 09

  Well, how many of them work to not work ratio? That's what I'm interested in.

• 1:47:03Steven Rinella?

  What was the, yeah, like how often did you have a misfire? I can't say.

• 1:47:05Speaker 09

  Yeah. That hunt that the Nebraska or whatever late season deal that we did, finally deer steps out. Oh, a little too far. Deer steps out. Oh, a little too far. Oh, this one's on the right track. Comes out. Perfect broadside. Tip. And I'm like, oh. Jack, another cap in there.

• 1:47:27Speaker 04

  Bad primers.

• 1:47:28Speaker 09

  Another tip. Little puffs of smoke and.

• 1:47:32Steven Rinella?

  Off percussions.

• 1:47:33Speaker 09

  Yeah, off percussion caps. And I'm like, ah. Yeah.

• 1:47:37Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:38Speaker 09

  So that's why you're going to the flintlock. Exactly. Exactly.

• 1:47:43Speaker 09

  Well, and the other reason I'm going with the flintlock too is if it, for whatever reason, is something that I do not like and can't accommodate, I can always go to a percussion cap with that same rifle. Yeah, just put.

• 1:47:56Steven Rinella?

  Like change the lock.

• 1:47:57Speaker 09

  Put a different lock on.

• 1:47:58Steven Rinella?

  You ever think about getting yourself a matchlock?

• 1:48:00Speaker 09

  No.

• 1:48:01Steven Rinella?

  That old kind where you had to light a fire.

• 1:48:03Speaker 04

  A fusie? Didn't they call fusies?

• 1:48:06Speaker 09

  A wheel lock?

• 1:48:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. All right. Everybody good? And we got anything else to say? Turkey week.

• 1:48:14Speaker 06

  Good luck, Turkey.

• 1:48:15Speaker 09

  Oh, do you have any? Do you have any, uh, goals for your week of vacation that's coming up?

• 1:48:22Steven Rinella?

  I need to recoup, right?

• 1:48:26Steven Rinella?

  We're gonna spearfish a bunch, but I'm worried about, uh, I just don't have any energy right now.

• 1:48:31Speaker 09

  Right.

• 1:48:31Steven Rinella?

  So I'm worried about that.

• 1:48:33Speaker 09

  You have any, uh, species goals?

• 1:48:37Steven Rinella?

  No. Take what I can get.

• 1:48:40Steven Rinella?

  I packed my filet knife, though, I can tell you that.

• 1:48:42Speaker 09

  Don't want to be a fish on that reef.

• 1:48:47Steven Rinella?

  Pack my knife. I gotta get better. Um, my kid's raring to go. He's gonna be very irritated that I'm not, uh, that I need a day, I need a recuperation day or two when I get there.

• 1:48:56Speaker 06

  Did he get that new GoPro?

• 1:48:59Steven Rinella?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:49:00Speaker 06

  Oh, he did.

• 1:49:02Steven Rinella?

  And he's got like a little payment plan. He did, uh, I bankrolled the purchase. Uh, he had, he had a hundred bucks that he kicked in. I made him make a chart. So for the next eight months, he owes me thirty bucks a month.

• 1:49:20Speaker 06

  Interest or no?

• 1:49:21Steven Rinella?

  Nah, I didn't hit him up with that.

• 1:49:23Speaker 09

  Really? No juice?

• 1:49:24Speaker 06

  Rates.

• 1:49:24Speaker 09

  Tough.

• 1:49:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, parenting's dead.

• 1:49:29Steven Rinella?

  So I got that chart in my office. And, um, he's thirty bucks a month.

• 1:49:34Speaker 09

  You should build one with like general credit card interest rates. And be like, here's what it could be.

• 1:49:40Speaker 06

  Just so that he gets put in, you know?

• 1:49:43Steven Rinella?

  I wasn't thinking about it, milking it out of him.

• 1:49:45Speaker 06

  Is Roe getting the old camera? She gonna mess around with it?

• 1:49:49Steven Rinella?

  He says part of what his plan is to sell the old one to get some of his payment plans.

• 1:49:54Speaker 06

  I'm telling you, he's got a mind on him.

• 1:49:56Steven Rinella?

  He's a wheeler and dealer.

• 1:49:56Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:49:57Steven Rinella?

  He's like Randall. He's a wheeler and dealer.

• 1:49:59Speaker 09

  One in, one out.

• 1:50:00Speaker 06

  He should accompany Randall to the estate sales and then maybe they can buy stuff and resell stuff and.

• 1:50:05Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:06Speaker 09

  I can't wait to see him out there being like, the more I talk about this, I don't even think I want to sell this.

• 1:50:13Speaker 09

  It's probably better than the new one. But I suppose I can let it go.

• 1:50:20Steven Rinella?

  All right, this might be my last show.

• 1:50:22Speaker 05

  It's been fun. Thanks for.

• 1:50:23Steven Rinella?

  It's been a good, good run.

• 1:50:25Speaker 05

  It's been a good run. What number is this, Corin?

• 1:50:27Steven Rinella?

  If I die.

• 1:50:28Speaker 06

  Oh, wow. We're at 600.

• 1:50:30Speaker 05

  670 something.

• 1:50:31Steven Rinella?

  God, really? Can you believe that?

• 1:50:32Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:50:33Steven Rinella?

  If I die. Well, everybody know, thanks for listening.

• 1:50:39Speaker 05

  Can I have all your shit?

• 1:50:43Speaker 09

  Fast of a drop.

• 1:50:47Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And since Randall knows, Randall, you're in charge of the estate sale. Yeah.

• 1:50:52Speaker 04

  You're gonna have to fight Jimmy for it.

• 1:50:55Steven Rinella?

  I know. I've got the app on my phone. It'll be real smooth.

• 1:50:59Speaker 06

  We'll auction everything off and we'll get a bajillion dollars for conservation.

• 1:51:04Steven Rinella?

  Randall sent me a picture. Randall, he was showing me about an estate sale the other day. And then he sent me a picture. There's two things at the estate sale that didn't sell. And it was a box of empty DVD cases.

• 1:51:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:51:16Steven Rinella?

  And some disposable urine collection devices. Everything else cleared out.

• 1:51:22Speaker 05

  Yeah. I got a, I got a box of bullets for real steel and a nice digital scale with my name on it.

• 1:51:33Speaker 06

  Peace out.

• 1:51:34Steven Rinella?

  Thanks for joining.

• 1:52:02Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what. What happens on the floor of your rig? If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and years of use out of a set.

• 1:52:47Steven Rinella?

  Visit weatherTech.com for your holiday shopping today.

• 1:52:53Speaker 12

  A BetterHelp ad. I would like to formally request more storage space in my brain. Because somehow I can forget why I opened my laptop where I put my keys, or the name of someone I met 30 seconds ago. But I can remember an awkward conversation from six years ago in extraordinary detail. So if your brain came with a delete button, what would you use it on? Maybe it's that tough breakup you've analyzed from every possible angle, and irrational worry you know doesn't deserve this much attention. The conversation with your boss you keep rehearsing in the shower, or that one comment someone made that you're still thinking about weeks later. We don't always get to choose what sticks around in our heads. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that gives you space to talk about what's

• 1:53:38Speaker 12

  taking up too much of yours. BetterHelp is now in-network with more than 125 health plans, with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. Visit betterhelp.com. Cost and coverage may vary.

• 1:53:53Steven Rinella?

  OnX Hunt is full of great features. I always say it's my favorite app. I use the thing on a daily basis. Here's a new feature I'm very excited about. OnX Hunt's location sharing puts your whole group on one live map, so you can look and tell where everyone is. And if at night it gets dark and someone's not back yet, you don't got to guess what happened to them or where they are. You can just look and tell where they are. It has implications for safety, coordination. I can't even list all the ways in which this is helpful. You opt in, and then when you guys are done, the data goes away. It's not stored. Keep the folks in your deer camp on the same page with location sharing from OnX Hunt.

• 1:54:32Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.