Porsche Kills the 718! China Crushes Tesla! Doug on BMW’s Ugly Redemption Arc!

Have a question you want answered on the podcast next week? Ask HERE ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://crsnbds.com/PODQUESTIONS ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Thank You To Our Sponsors! DeleteMe - https://joindeleteme.com/DEMURO Get 20% off your plan! Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/kk6qvwgr#CashAppPod CODE- CARPOD *Referral Reward Disclaimer: As a Cash App partner, I may earn a commission when you sign up for a Cash App account. Acre Gold - https://www.getacregold.com 30% off site wide with code CARS - Brooklyn Bedding - https://brooklynbedding.com/ Partner with us! [email protected] Welcome to THIS CAR POD! Doug DeMuro & Friends offers weekly expert insight and opinion, on the breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A. MERCH! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://merch.carsandbids.com/⁠ Chapters 00:00:00 THIS CAR POD! 00:00:12 The New Nissan GTR 00:02:14 Volkswagen 00:04:45 Porsche Discontinues 718 00:10:32 BYD Surpasses Tesla In Europe 00:16:30 Trump Rolls Back EV Incentive 00:20:32 GM Invests $888 Million in V8s 00:22:27 New Stellantis CEO 00:24:37 New BMW M2 CS 00:27:20 BMW M3 Touring in US 00:32:50 BMW Speedtop Concept 00:35:48 Talk Cars 00:36:21 Filippo Drives On Track 00:40:12 Doug Wants a Diesel Suburban 00:45:19 Kennan's M5 Update 00:48:13 Market Report 00:49:21 GMC Topkick 00:53:31 Porsche Tractor 00:56:26 OCTA Defender 00:58:36 Porsche Mecan 01:05:10 Community Questions 01:05:28 Which Modern Supercar Should Be A Shooting Brake? 01:08:12 Why Doesn't Cadillac Make a CT5V Blackwing Wagon? 01:10:26 Rank The Mercedes S-Class Generations 01:18:50 What is the Floor on the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio? 01:23:37 Will Reliable Brands Maintain Their Reputations In The EV Space? 01:25:26 If You Were The CEO of Nissan How Woud You Save It? 01:28:59 Final Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is about taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your financial advisor personalizes your plan to help you preserve your progress and create something that lasts. Let's find your rich. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 0:15Speaker 01

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• 0:49Doug DeMuro?

  Hello and welcome to This Car Pod.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  I'm Kenneth.

• 0:53Speaker 03

  I'm Filippo.

• 0:54Doug DeMuro?

  And there's a lot to talk about, starting with that, which is apparently some sort of concept car intended to signify the new Nissan GT-R. Nissan announced recently that they have people working on the next generation of GT-R. I don't find this to be a big news story because they haven't announced the car, they haven't told us what it's going to be, et cetera. But I do find the interesting part to be, why does Nissan have people working on the new GT-R considering everything they've told us about their finances generally?

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Some would say they might have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

• 1:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, like any of their other cars.

• 1:31Doug DeMuro?

  Although there is no bigger fish than Godzilla, I would argue.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Oh, it's not a fish, but they, I think.

• 1:38Doug DeMuro?

  He swims, doesn't he?

• 1:39Speaker 03

  Have you not?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  You swim, you're not a fish.

• 1:41Doug DeMuro?

  Good, that's true.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Got him, got him.

• 1:46Doug DeMuro?

  Didn't Nissan this week announce that they were thinking about selling their headquarters or something?

• 1:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, they need $700 million. And so what can you do? Sell that? Because you got to employ some people to work on a GT-R. We knew that the new guy running Nissan is a car enthusiast. I can understand wanting like a halo car. The GT-R has helped their brand massively. Hopefully they have like a person, like an intern, that'd be fine.

• 2:13Doug DeMuro?

  They could afford an intern. What really helped their brand is making good cars and not making all the mistakes they made over the last 20 years.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, some would say existing.

• 2:23Doug DeMuro?

  You know what they ought to do? Instead of developing a new GT-R, they should create a time machine. And they should go back 20 years and make a lot of different decisions.

• 2:33Speaker 03

  They don't have enough employees or money for that. Too much manufacturing.

• 2:36Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe if they sell their headquarters. So anyway, the new GTR, I'm glad to hear it's coming. Presumably it's going to be a plug-in hybrid. I have no doubt.

• 2:43Speaker 03

  Is it coming?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  I don't, I mean, yeah, this is more vaporware than, I mean, I, yeah, I don't know. Who knows? It's so uncertain for them.

• 2:52Doug DeMuro?

  The great irony is that the new Nissan Pathfinder is a good car. That is the great irony.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:59Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay, fine. Let's move on to the next news story, which is Volkswagen.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. So Volkswagen announced this week that they are going to stop using the ID naming convention for their electric cars. Ken, of course, is familiar with the ID four, the ID buzz, ID three, two, maybe the one, no, just the three and two in Europe.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  He lost me there.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  Where it's the number signified the size ish. There's supposed to be an ID seven sedan that never existed. Uh, they're going to go to actual names. Lemon, as shown on the screen, will probably not be one of their actual names. It will probably be wins like their other cars are, uh, but it's yet another story in the big chain of stories of automakers not knowing how to name EVs. And eventually they just end up with their normal naming structure. Just go for just fine.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Just fine.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  Goodbye, ID buzz.

• 3:44Doug DeMuro?

  Did you know that golf referred to the Gulf Stream?

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I see.

• 3:50Doug DeMuro?

  That's true. I'm not, I'm not making that up.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 3:53Speaker 03

  Passat is a large wind that goes over Europe or something like that.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  The Touareg is a wind or something?

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it all fell apart.

• 4:01Doug DeMuro?

  It fell apart. Like CC isn't a wind. You know what I'm saying?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Right. And the Beetle wasn't either. So like, there's a wind in there.

• 4:08Doug DeMuro?

  Beetle. But, but, um,

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Didn't they call the new Beetle?

• 4:12Doug DeMuro?

  But, yeah, that's true. They did. They called the new one the Beetle. Um, but Passat or Golf referred to the Gulf Stream, even though they spelled it differently. I swear to God, that's true. And then Golf Harlequin was the Gulf Stream, but then it was Harlequin because it had different colors.

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Are you aware of how the name Tiguan, which is their small SUV came to be?

• 4:27Doug DeMuro?

  It is the, it is the word tiger and the German word for Iguana, which is Leguan, combined together.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  Yes. Well done.

• 4:36Doug DeMuro?

  Dude, I'm a Tiguan enthusiast. I'm a Tiguan enthusiast. I, who is it? The early stick Tiguan's was a big, I was a big fan.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  I I just hate the Tiguan L, just the only one sold in the US. Real shame.

• 4:47Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay. So Volkswagen is gonna name their cars. Have they announced, are they gonna rename the current cars?

• 4:53Speaker 03

  They haven't said. This is like one, a single report where somebody said, we're gonna stop doing this. It's unclear if it's for the next generation, right now, whatever.

• 5:01Doug DeMuro?

  If you could name the ID.4, what would you call it?

• 5:04Speaker 03

  The E. Taus.

• 5:05Doug DeMuro?

  The E. Taus? But it's a totally different car.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  That also just rolls right off the tongue.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  A little joke about their other, their other.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  I know, I know, I know.

• 5:16Doug DeMuro?

  Names of wins. Oh, Scirocco, Bora, Mistral is already taken. Chinook, Camzin, those are taken. What else could they do? Haboo. What about Haboo?

• 5:27Speaker 03

  That'd be a great name for a truck.

• 5:29Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, for a truck only. All right, give us the next one. Uh, Mew Haboo.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Oh, all right. So we've known for a while that the 718 Boxster and Cayman were leaving, departing this world soon.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  They've confirmed that they're gonna end production later this year. In October of this year will be the end of production for the 718 model line. Unfortunately, their EV replacement was supposed to come out in 2026. It is now delayed at least a year. They've said a year, but let's be honest, to 2027. So that will leave a large gap in Porsche's lineup where they will not have any sub 911 sports car.

• 6:05Doug DeMuro?

  Crazy.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  For at least a year. And it's also unclear how much of demand there'll be for the EV one, once it comes out. So there might maybe other changes here.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  So is it, is there a regulation change that means they absolutely have to stop producing cars? Or could they, is the tooling worn out and they can't produce anymore? Or could they just extend it for, I don't know, another year until they cover the gap?

• 6:23Speaker 03

  Tough position. I would not be shocked if it's not compliant with Euro 8, wherever the next set of Euro initiatives are.

• 6:31Doug DeMuro?

  Some regulatory stuff, although keep in mind that giving, canceling 718 production also, also frees up capacity in Zuffenhausen. So they can make more 911s, which probably have higher profit. Cause Boxsters are still made there in that same factory. I mean, I remember taking the factory tour and there'd be a Boxster on the line and then a 911 on the line next. And it was like wild.

• 6:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. And also with tariffs in the US, which is a large market for them, where they might still wanna make them if they can't sell them in Europe. An $80,000 car becomes a $100,000 car just from the tariffs alone. I think they've, that maybe has meant the price out of that market. Why not end production, wait and invest in their.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Interesting. That's a good point.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  I will also know.

• 7:06Doug DeMuro?

  China is paying the tariff. I don't, you don't understand the tariff.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  The car is made in.

• 7:11Doug DeMuro?

  But it doesn't matter. I was told that China would pay.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  Right. One quick note, because we're talking about European emissions regulations. There's about to be a bunch of interesting stuff that results. There was a news story that we did include because I forgot about it till right now, that the Lotus Mirar V6 may not be complying with the next round of emissions regulations in Europe. And so they may need to change to a different engine. There's going to be a lot of this where slightly older engines just can't meet European requirements anymore. And so your automakers have to adapt, roll out additional, different engines. Lotus was talking about a V8, pulled from Mercedes there. But it's gonna be interesting. It's like over the last couple of years, you'll see more and more new stories about, especially for European cars, what engines are available because they only want to invest in engines that work for all of their markets.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  I'm here for the Mirar V8.

• 7:59Doug DeMuro?

  That ends up trickling down and having an effect in the US market. You know, the entire reason, you know, the Audi R8 is beloved for its beginning of the whole trend of making daytime running lights cool. But do you know why we have daytime running lights in all of our cars? Do you know why? Canada. Canada mandates it. They require it. And the companies were like, you know what, if Canada's going to mandate it, we'll just do it in the US too. And then it's like, well, if we're gonna do it, we might as well make it cool. And that's why we have. It's because of Canada. That Canada forced daytime running lights on us and probably saved a lot of lives, honestly.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Probably. Yeah, same reason why if you buy a European car, it's more likely to have rear or front fog lights. Because rear fog lights are mandatory, although usually in the US they put a reverse light there.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it depends. Wow, the Canadians. I didn't know that. Sorry, I know it's an inconvenience for you there, but we're gonna do this and save some lives there. So put some daytime running lights.

• 8:54Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, but on the topic of this story, pretty wild.

• 8:58Speaker 03

  I mean, okay, Ken and I were talking about this before the podcast started. There has not been exactly a ton of love for non-special versions of the Boxer and Cayman from the 718 generation. It's a four-cylinder. It's not a flat six. The base engine, it's been around for Coming on a decade now, close to it. It's they've done what they could with the platform. We all knew it was ending the Spyder RS, the the Cayman GT4 RS, and we knew it was gonna be that.

• 9:24Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but nonetheless, it's still a gas-powered mid-engine car. And I have a and based on what I'm seeing with auction results for 981s and 982s, I have a suspicion that the market, if it doesn't appreciate it that much today, will appreciate it because you know what? You know what's better than a turbo flat four? You know what's worse than a turbo flat four? An EV. Like, at the end of the day, yeah, it's not the flat six that it used to be. Oh, it's a turbo flat four. We thought the world was ending when they came out with a turbo flat four for this car 10 years ago. Well, now they're gonna replace it with an EV.

• 9:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:58Doug DeMuro?

  It's it's crazy, and it's crazy that they're having this gap. There won't be an entry-level Porsche sports car. Porsche strays further and further from like what we know as Porsche, right? There there's multiple lines of SUVs and, you know, the this car was such an enthusiast hit.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  I legitimately do think the tariffs are having an impact on those because they can't sell them. They won't be able to sell them once they import them. There was a big article today about how Porsche was in was already in a little bit of a downturn primarily because of sales in China. All those sales in the US have been really strong. And now terrorists have are turning that into a real crisis. I what you gonna do?

• 10:32Doug DeMuro?

  Well, yeah, no, what are you gonna do is right. And the tariff thing is a component, and obviously the car is old. Like you said, it's still sad. It's sad from enthusiast's perspective that a gas sports cars are replaced by an EV one. It's even sadder sadder when a gas sports car is not replaced.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  I do wonder what will happen to 718 values. They've gone down a fair amount, but they will flatten out. And it'll also be interesting to see. They've kind of walked back the whole Macan was gonna go away at the end of this year thing. They'll keep telling the Macan one side. Clearly, they're not going to produce these. But it does make you wonder, like, are they going to try to find a way to produce something else? I doubt it. They're not gonna invest in a whole new platform if they're stopping production.

• 11:07Doug DeMuro?

  It's over.

• 11:08Speaker 03

  It's over.

• 11:09Doug DeMuro?

  This is the end.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  So you're right. This is it.

• 11:10Doug DeMuro?

  Witnessing the end right here. That Spyder RS was the end, and they never did do a stick. They never did give us what we wanted. Okay, give us our next news story, which is gonna be amazing. Oh, some sort of electric. French car.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  Chinese car. This is a BYD, which is a Chinese primarily EV manufacturer at this point. Build your dream.

• 11:29Doug DeMuro?

  Build your dream.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  If you will. There's a couple of news stories here. One is that in April, BYD outsold Tesla in Europe. There's two big news stories related to that. One is EV sales in Europe up. Tesla sales in Europe, down 50% year over year.

• 11:44Doug DeMuro?

  I want to, I want to really underscore that because I know what you're gonna say the other big news story is, but that is the big news story. European EV sales are rising and Tesla sales are cratering in Europe.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yep. So BYD for the first time has outsold Tesla a- across Europe. Notable because it's a Chinese manufacturer that's showing really consistently stronger sales. And also Tesla has absolutely lost the European market. Some of that is product age, right? The Model Y just had a refresh, but it's kind of a mixed bag. The Model 3 had a refresh a year ago, but like not a ton of new products, especially smaller products with the European market. Especially as EVs gain more traction in Southern Europe where people like smaller cars. Tesla does not have any entrance in the sub regular sedan space.

• 12:32Doug DeMuro?

  And BYD does?

• 12:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:34Doug DeMuro?

  These things. What are these?

• 12:35Speaker 03

  These things and others. They have cars across the entire lineup. So partially it's that and partially it's that Elon Musk's role in the US government has really impacted his reputation across Europe.

• 12:46Doug DeMuro?

  The fact that BYD is so heavily subsidized by the Chinese government doesn't have the, the European, the notoriously xenoph- automotively xenophobic Europeans getting a little worried. They're cool with that. They're like, yeah, bring up the Chinese.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  Hey, weird, strange bedfellows. Uh, exists for sure. I, I do think a lot of it is also around price. I fundamentally, the way you expand the European EV market is you've kind of capped out in the richer Scandinavian countries where there's been a huge EV adoption over the last decade. Where do you go? You go to Italy, Spain, France, wherever. And someone said, Eastern Europe, there's not the same money. You need lower priced products. Tesla doesn't have that. BYD does.

• 13:24Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think, and I'm just gonna throw this out there, but do you think there's a possibility that the names of the cars are also playing a role? The vehicle shown there is called the Dolphin Surf. Okay? And then there's also a car called the Sea Lion.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:42Doug DeMuro?

  Actually, it's called the Sea Lion 7. I don't know if there were one through six. And then there's also a car called the Dolphin. That's different from the Surf. And then there's also a car called the Seal. Now, unlike in reality where the Seals and the Sea Lions look basically the same and only, only people who are intelligent can tell them apart. In BYD's lineup, the Seal is a sedan and the Sea Lion is a SUV. Do you think that this is playing a big role in BYD's European success?

• 14:11Speaker 03

  Yes, undeniable.

• 14:14Speaker 03

  Thank you for asking that important question. The Tang and the Auto and the Han also doing well.

• 14:20Doug DeMuro?

  I don't care about those cars. I only care about the Sea Lion, the Seal and the Dolphin 7. Or wait, whatever it was.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  I mean, that was a big Dolphin 6.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Regardless, big news story. Sales are up. Tesla plummeting. BYD, Upstart automaker that's entering the European market. Upstart is a positive way to frame that. Uh, entering the European market, starting to do better and better and better.

• 14:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that's a huge deal. The fact that Tesla's continuing to see this decline is a huge deal. And you know what I was realizing the other day? It used to be that if you criticized Tesla anywhere, you would get like mobbed with crazy people who hated you. That has really changed. A lot of the people who used to mob don't, aren't Tesla shows anymore. And a lot of the people who mobbed were also obsessed with the stock price, which has been basically flat for like five years. And so a lot of those people have gotten out and there is, there is not the obsessive like cult of Tesla that there once was, interestingly.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  No.

• 15:17Doug DeMuro?

  They're still out there, but it's not like it used to be.

• 15:21Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay, BYD, killing it with the Dolphin Surf. I've been using Delete Me for years now, and let me tell you, I'm still just as grateful for it today as I was the day I signed up. The first time I saw my personal info all over the internet, it was honestly kind of alarming. My full name, old phone number, old addresses, even info about my family. It was just sitting there publicly accessible. And it wasn't just on one site, it was on dozens. I had no idea that kind of data was floating around, let alone how easy it was. was for anyone to get their hands on it. And listen, as someone who's pretty visible online, I've had to deal with some pretty weird stuff. Random emails, strange messages, people digging a little too deep. That's why privacy is something I take seriously. And Delete Me has become a core part of how I protect myself and my family. That's why I always recommend Delete Me.

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  and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me. Now with a special discount for our listeners. Today, get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to joindelete.me/dmuro and use promo code DMURO at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is go to joindelete.me/dmuro and enter code DMURO at checkout. That's joindelete.me/dmuro, code DMURO. Give us our next news story. Indeed. Ah, yes. Donald Trump in a Tesla. Is this something I'm talking about? All right, here's the deal. Filippo, you know about this. I don't think you know about this, but I'm gonna teach you.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  I, I, you think I don't know about EV?

• 17:29Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 17:58Speaker 03

  News. Who do you think I am?

• 17:59Doug DeMuro?

  The president and the Congress, that fellow, his name is Mike Johnson, somehow. They got like this guy, it's like very generic. He, they're, they're passing this bill that's gonna have tax implications for the US. I haven't really paid that much attention to it, but God, I hope my accountant has. But anyway, one of the implications, one of the implications is that they're getting rid of the EV tax credit. Have you seen this?

• 18:25Speaker 03

  Well, Republicans have hated it forever.

• 18:27Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Do you know that they're gonna now have a tax on hybrid car owners like me?

• 18:31Speaker 03

  Will it actually impact Sequoia's? I thought it was just plug-ins.

• 18:34Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, it said, it said it's like a hundred dollars for hybrids and 250 for EVs. Sequoia, I got two hybrids, dude. I got a E-Class station wagon too. I gotta pay.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  It's a mild hybrid, 48 volt battery, doesn't count.

• 18:45Doug DeMuro?

  That's what I would argue. I hope that Mike Johnson distinguishes between mild hybrids like mine and libs and Priuses. I'm terrified. Anyway, if this gets rid of the EV tax credit, that's a huge deal.

• 18:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I think we've collectively all known that this is gonna happen or like likely to happen, right? There has been a little bit of a pull forward in EV sales, both tariff related and because there was some sense that these were gonna be removed. There is, if you're a car enthusiast, potential hope because your, the interest you pay on your loan might be tax deductible. Still getting worked out, but maybe it'll be tax deductible and that will surely offset any gain you would've gotten. EV adoption is gonna be in a tough spot in the US as a result, I will say.

• 19:29Doug DeMuro?

  Right? I mean, I would assume that. You have to assume that these EVs are largely being propped up by the tax credit. A lot of them are advertised, their prices are advertised, including the tax credit, like as if it was just a guarantee. Do, the question will be, number one, do people even buy EVs after the, or lease them after the tax credit goes away?

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 19:48Doug DeMuro?

  And number two, will America be significantly impacted? And of course, without a, without a big compelling reason to force people to buy these electric cars, automakers stop making them. And then we get more news stories like BYD has gone ahead of an American company in foreign markets.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 20:05Speaker 03

  A large part of EV adoption was the tax credit for $7,500 for cars that met certain requirements during the Biden administration. They really tightened those to be just cars made in the US or with battery and with battery equipments made in the US. And that did bring some manufacturing here. To be fair, there were concerns at the time, too. Notably, if you leased a car, it did it during, this is related to your income. There were phase outs above a certain income level, did not apply if you leased the car. And so that made leases really appealing. It was also true for used EVs. So certain used EVs were eligible for up to $4,500 tax credit, which if we're being honest, has very much propped up the sub $25,000 part of the used EV market, which is pretty much every Model S and Model 3 and every other.

• 20:50Doug DeMuro?

  And by the way, that is also in this bill. That is also going on.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  Dead. So yeah, it'll have a large impact on adoption. Now, when the Biden era policies shifted to only allowing the tax credit for cars that were made in the US, a bunch of manufacturers, Hyundai and Kia chief among them, applied really heavy incentives to keep selling those cars because they'd already committed to some production numbers and needed to get that through. So maybe people will do that and continue sales, but you're certainly not going to invest in more. You're certainly not going to invest in bringing those manufacturing for those cars to the US. That market's dead.

• 21:23Doug DeMuro?

  And then so China eats our lunch and we see where this is going.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yep. We see where this is going. I know how, I know the song. See how the story ends.

• 21:30Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, I hate to say it, but like, and I'm not as an enthusiast, EVs aren't exactly my favorite thing, but you see where the world is headed and you see where China is headed with that news story we just did about BYD and you see what's going to happen when America doesn't incentivize people to buy electric cars.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  We're doing it to ourselves.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Let's talk about the related story here.

• 21:48Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, next news story.

• 21:49Speaker 03

  Or related to that, GM announced this week that they're investing $888 million in updating a factory that produces V8 engines right outside of Buffalo, New York, shout out to Buffalo, to produce their next generation V8.

• 22:04Doug DeMuro?

  Shout out to Buffalo.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Got family there.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  He loves hot wings.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  I love what?

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Hot wings. You love buffalo?

• 22:13Speaker 03

  Oh, sure.

• 22:15Doug DeMuro?

  Can I ask a question? Do you think the 888 million dollars?

• 22:19Speaker 03

  I've wondered.

• 22:20Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think that was coincidental?

• 22:22Speaker 01

  I see what you're saying.

• 22:24Doug DeMuro?

  Or do you think it was meant to placate the Chinese?

• 22:26Speaker 03

  I I've wondered about the coincidence, the V8 and also the connection Chinese. I I've legitimately thought about whether they have they tried to make sure that it rounded to 888, like, throw in a few extra million here. Regardless, we can move on from this, but basically GM is still investing in the next generation V8, and they're investing heavily in producing them because they expect it to be a large part of their infrastructure. It's not their only factory that produces V8. There's others that GM owns.

• 22:54Doug DeMuro?

  This story happened without Trump and and this then these changes?

• 22:58Speaker 03

  No.

• 22:58Doug DeMuro?

  So, Trump, Kenan, Trump saved V8s.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, all right.

• 23:04Doug DeMuro?

  What do you mean, well, all right? Trump gave Trump saved V8s. Felipe, are these truck engines?

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  That's the thing. They're not I don't know that these are going to be V8s in sports.

• 23:12Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no, no. This is all for the the Silverado, Tahoe, Sierra.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  We're just fine.

• 23:17Doug DeMuro?

  Will find their way into into builds that will do together with a couple of cold ones over a long weekend.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Lot of cold ones.

• 23:24Doug DeMuro?

  And maybe we'll do the next. Happened, Kenan and I aren't together. We could have been doing a build over a long weekend with cold ones like we usually do.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Memorial Day weekend, we could have done it, but alas.

• 23:33Doug DeMuro?

  But remember, Kenan, last year, remember how we put that Coyote in that Lotus Europa?

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do. Yeah, that thing really, it really sound the Lotus America is what we called it.

• 23:42Doug DeMuro?

  All right, give us our next. Yeah, Europa through Europa.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Speaking of Europa, tell us about.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  He is European. That's so true. This is the new Stellantis CEO. They finally announced who the new CEO is. It is a gentleman named Antonio Filosa. He's from Naples. He was previously the head of Stellantis or sub brands of it in South America, CEO of Jeep. He's been there for a while.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  And I'll tell you what, in this picture, he looks thrilled.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, he looks thrilled.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  So he looks really excited.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  So no, they announced that this morning, their stock is down three and a half percent since.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Yep, that's all I need to know.

• 24:17Doug DeMuro?

  They're promoting from within. The stock market doesn't like the fact that someone else from Stellantis is going to be a part of this. He was he was a part of the last batch of track. Is this the guy that gave us the Jeep Renegade? That question should be asked every time someone from Stellantis is promoted.

• 24:32Speaker 03

  No, no, he gave us a grand Wagoneer.

• 24:33Doug DeMuro?

  Play on the Jeep Renegade.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  He's only the grand Wagoneer. Is that better?

• 24:37Doug DeMuro?

  No.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  I I that I'm partially joking. He became the CEO of Jeep in like 2023. But he was pretty instrumental in growing Salantus in South America and in developing markets, which was a huge, huge market for them now.

• 24:51Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  And time will tell. I will say they're like the quotes that articles have pulled out from like dealer groups and whatnot are

• 25:01Speaker 03

  not glowingly positive.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Shocked at that.

• 25:04Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think? Well, but those but dealer groups are just incredibly upset right now at Stellantis in general. So I mean,

• 25:10Speaker 03

  And he he's made clear that his focus is like relationship building and relationship building with suppliers, with dealers, et cetera.

• 25:16Doug DeMuro?

  You know, you know, I worked in the business.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:18Doug DeMuro?

  And and technically still do, although right now I'm sitting in a room with an elephant behind me.

• 25:25Doug DeMuro?

  You know how you build the best relationships is you make great products that dealers can easily sell. That's without without putting an enormous amount of restrictions on them. That's like the primary way you build relationships in the industry. So.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Like like the Grand Wagoneer plug-in hybrid that they're testing.

• 25:40Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, my God. Can you think of a car that that doesn't have a market more than the Grand? Did they learn nothing from the Chrysler Aspen Hybrid? I don't understand.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  They did not. They didn't make enough.

• 25:53Doug DeMuro?

  Give us a good one. Come on.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Good. Something important. So this is the new BMW. Well, yes, this is the new BMW M2CS, and it's very exciting. 523 horsepower, 479 foot pounds of torque, and it's rear wheel drive, which is awesome. There will be no manual transmission with this car, unfortunately, which is

• 26:12Doug DeMuro?

  Really?

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Not really a surprise. But it is. They did make some pretty substantial weight savings with it. It's 70 pounds less than the automatic equipped M2, and it's 44 pounds less than the manual equipped M2, which is not easy to trim. It was already a relatively lightweight car.

• 26:26Doug DeMuro?

  A percent.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  It's it's not a huge. It's not a huge amount, but it is. It is still something.

• 26:31Doug DeMuro?

  The power number is huge. Ken.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  It's 97%. 97 pounds less than the standard.

• 26:36Doug DeMuro?

  Did the old M2CS have like 400 and some horsepower?

• 26:41Speaker 01

  It's a it's a huge leap in power. Yeah, 523 horsepower is a lot. I believe it's 70 more horsepower than the other.

• 26:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, the old one had 444, so it's like 80. I mean, that's a significant boost, especially for a little car.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Right, and again, it underscores your point that like, I understand that enthusiasts don't particularly love the current M2. But the fact that we have a 523 horsepower, real-world drive BMW is like, cool, like that's really exciting. And I don't know, I really want to drive this car, and I'm sure it will be excellent to drive. The last M2CS was brilliant, I'm sure this will also be fantastic. And it's an exciting, it's an exciting car from modern BMW, all hail. It's quite an exciting car.

• 27:22Doug DeMuro?

  It's a shame that it's a stick though, considering the

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, it is. And I'm sure every enthusiast like myself will bemoan that, but you know what, the fact that that's, it's amazing they offer manual transmission in any of their cars at all, at this stage, so.

• 27:35Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, so it says it's gonna cost a hundred grand and go on sale before the end of the year.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Yep, so we'll see it. We'll have, I'm sure you'll have one on test sometime soon.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Are we into the spoiler?

• 27:44Speaker 01

  It's a lot of money, it's a lot of money. But then again, the last M2CS was also very expensive and really held its value as like a special car.

• 27:50Doug DeMuro?

  Because the market appreciates it. I agree that it's a lot of money, but it's 520 horsepower. That car's gonna be fast. That's gonna be zero to 16 in the threes, that's gonna be like a seriously quick car. Also, it's hard to find a European car that is like a real thriller for less than a hundred grand new. I mean, that's just the truth.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  And I'm sure this one will be very tail happy and probably a handful to drive, so I think it'll be an exciting car.

• 28:10Doug DeMuro?

  In forty, in thirty, in twenty years, people are gonna be putting sticks into these.

• 28:15Doug DeMuro?

  What, you think I'm wrong?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Well, Ryan at Ether9swords, get on it. Start swapping these cars early.

• 28:21Doug DeMuro?

  They already do a stick in the regular one, they're gonna be, people are gonna do stick swaps. You think they won't? Filippo, me and Kenan, next Memorial Day, Kenan, let's get your garage ready. Get some jack stands.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Get some jack stands, we'll crank the tunes and get to work.

• 28:35Doug DeMuro?

  Give us our next BMW-related news story. There are three right in a row here. The other one is the M5. Okay, did you guys read this BS?

• 28:41Speaker 01

  I did.

• 28:42Doug DeMuro?

  The BMW, some BMW executive, I don't pay attention to the executives, Filippo loves the executives, uh, announced, you didn't see this news story, Filippo?

• 28:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 28:51Doug DeMuro?

  They're shocked by the demand of the M5 wagon here in the States. The wagon is outselling the sedan and, and they're considering bringing the M3 wagon to the States, which means that they will. Now,

• 29:02Doug DeMuro?

  Color me surprised. Do you know that the Audi RS6 hasn't even offered a sedan? I looked it up. In 13 years? 13 years since there was even an RS6 sedan available. It's wagon only. Even in the rest of the world, it's wagon only. In the US, it's wagon only. Meanwhile, the AMGE 63, when was the last time you saw a sedan of that? That wagon way outsells that sedan too. Did BMW do absolutely no market research before bringing this car to the United States? Of course, the wagon was gonna succeed. Obviously, the M3 wagon would have succeeded as well. Completely stupid maneuver not bringing that car. It's just insane to me. They're surprised by this. I wasn't. You know, I think that the automakers sometimes are so default, their default position is so frequently

• 29:48Doug DeMuro?

  to ignore the enthusiast because enthusiasts say dumb stuff online, which they do. That sometimes, they actually just ignore the enthusiast too much and don't realize what's right in front of them. This is a bonehead obvious thing to everybody who's paying attention. Mercedes has been milking this for years, and then Audi was like, why don't we do this? And now BMW is surprised after, the RS6 has been out for five years, hasn't it? Is anybody else surprised?

• 30:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 30:13Doug DeMuro?

  It's insane.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. I am happy that maybe this will finally force their hand into bringing the M3 Touring to the United States in addition to the M5. I mean, that would be, I would be very curious how that car would sell.

• 30:27Doug DeMuro?

  They're not gonna do it.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Compared to the, yeah, that's such a problem.

• 30:32Doug DeMuro?

  They're not gonna do it till the next gen. The next gen's gonna be trash. I bet.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  That's the thing. They missed, they missed, missed it by that much.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  When the next gen comes out.

• 30:41Doug DeMuro?

  BMW figured out that Americans like, actually like performance wagons. Mercedes has been doing it for 20 years. BMW figured out just at the end when they came out with a 9,000 pound one that plugs in.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  That's so, that's so perfect.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  It is notable to, first of all, no other manufacturer has brought a 3 Series C-Class A4 RS4 wagon to the US in a while. So we'll be interested to see what that market is. Secondly, you were complaining.

• 31:04Doug DeMuro?

  Which has sold an A4 wagon here for many, many years as the all road.

• 31:07Speaker 03

  They haven't sold a sporty A4 based one in a decade.

• 31:12Doug DeMuro?

  I don't think anybody has ever sold a sporty, I see the R, the S4 Avant in like 2007, was that the last one?

• 31:20Speaker 03

  They do something here. By the way, you're complaining preemptively about the new M3. When I think, when it comes out, you will say, oh, my God, I can't believe enthusiasts ever thought it wouldn't be good.

• 31:29Doug DeMuro?

  No, I am complaining preemptively before they've announced anything. I have already begun the complaining.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  Oh, got it.

• 31:35Doug DeMuro?

  And suddenly, we understand why BMW ignores enthusiasts.

• 31:39Speaker 03

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• 34:05Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, move on to the last.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  That's the circle of life. But speaking of BMW wagons, so although they might not, they are now getting into the party a little bit late with the M3 touring. They at Villa Death Day, which was last weekend, they showed this, which is the BMW Speed Top. It's a V8 powered swoopy looking wagon. It looks very Aston Martin Zagato-y to me. Now, they have said that not only is this a concept, they're actually going to build it. They're going to produce 70 units of it. It's going to use the most powerful V8 that they currently offer, which is a twin turbo V8 they've been making forever. And I think it is tremendously beautiful.

• 34:41Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but they're not gonna call it, they're not actually gonna call it the Speed Top, right?

• 34:45Speaker 01

  The, my understanding is that is, well, they'll probably change that, but that's the name for it right now is the Speed Top.

• 34:51Doug DeMuro?

  Which, but, but I mean, they can't, I mean, that name is.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  I mean, it's not, yeah, well, Ferrari called one of their cars the Ferrari, the Ferrari, the Ferrari. So like, you know, there are dumber names out there, I have to say.

• 35:03Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  But again, getting back to your point, so it's another wagon. So it, somebody there does like wagons and they are doing more of it. It's just like you said, a little bit too late. And I don't think this is going to come to the United States, but it is. When was the last time you looked at a BMW and thought, wow, that's good looking?

• 35:24Doug DeMuro?

  You know.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  It's been a while.

• 35:26Doug DeMuro?

  No, I totally, I think the new five is really an attractive car.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Oh, you and you alone. Uh, I think it's fine. It's not offensive, but I don't go, wow.

• 35:34Doug DeMuro?

  Do you remember a couple of years ago when BMW always shows some cool concept car in Lake Como?

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Always.

• 35:40Doug DeMuro?

  Do you remember a few years ago? Cause they, they got this Villa Deste concourse. They got the Villa Deste. And, and how did that happen? How did they wrestle it away from, from storied Italian brands such as, such as Piaggio? We don't know, but, but, uh, you remember a couple of years ago, they showed that Z4 hatchback thing?

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yes. The BMW Z4.

• 36:01Doug DeMuro?

  Touring coupe. Look that up. BMW concept touring coupe 23 was the year they.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  I think it was just called the Z4 touring. Um, but yes, this thing.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  Very similar to what they're building.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Damn, they should just build that.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  I think they did. Like the, the, that is a new one, just a little bit longer, same tail light design.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  That should be in, that should be in current production. Those wheels look so cool. I mean, damn, that's a good looking car.

• 36:22Doug DeMuro?

  If that could be in production, they would sell nine of them and then years later they'd be worth a lot of money on cars and bids. Bring that to us so that we can profit from it BMW and you can lose. Please.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Please, please.

• 36:34Doug DeMuro?

  Pretty.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  But nonetheless, I think that is a very good looking car and I was thrilled to see that at Villa Deste.

• 36:39Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, we can't, we're not gonna, they're not gonna call it the speed top though. I, I just have to, I hope, I have to hope.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Well, what can we say? Well, we'll, we'll put some, we'll bet some cookies on it. And what can I say? If I'm right, I'll bet they call it something stupid like that.

• 36:50Doug DeMuro?

  The, the wheels also look a little small. I, I, I need, I need 23s. Um, it is cool.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Clearly two different sizes too. Like that's a, so we'll, we'll see.

• 37:01Doug DeMuro?

  Is that the end of our news?

• 37:02Speaker 01

  That is the end of the news finally.

• 37:04Doug DeMuro?

  Oh my God, we have to move on because there's a lot to discuss in the talk cars segment and most importantly, the talk cars segment is brought to us today by the Mercedes Benz A-Class.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Oh, you didn't do a drawing for us today?

• 37:17Doug DeMuro?

  The Mercedes, you want me to, you want me to like trace the A-Class right now? The Mercedes Benz A-Class. Uh, a car that has motivated Europe's grandmothers since 1997. The Mercedes Benz A-Class. Head to your local used car lot in suburban Belgium today and buy your own with Russ.

• 37:36Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, Filippo, what do you have to say?

• 37:40Speaker 03

  All right, so today on the Cars and Beds channel, so a couple of days ago, if you're listening to this when this podcast comes out, we released a video where I did my first time driving on track.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  And alongside that, there's a Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works for sale on Cars and Beds. That is the car that I drove and almost hit a wall in.

• 37:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  I've been thinking a lot about my, we talked about this when this happened, we showed a little teaser of it. But I think a lot about my track experience because I rewatched the video, like the final edited video this morning. I want to do two big takeaways. Track driving, fun. Went a little too aggressive for a rainy day. Learned some lessons. Yeah, thanks. Re-show that. And I want to do more, more track driving. Those are my big takeaways. And I do legitimately recommend that everybody does some. If you have a track near you, if you have any kind of local, even if it's just go-karting, like go out and do that because it's just fun and it teaches you how to do, how to be a better car driver, a better controller of car, a better.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Teaches the dynamics of a car.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  It does, and without question.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  It is an expensive hobby for sure, but.

• 38:48Doug DeMuro?

  You don't have fun.

• 38:52Speaker 03

  I enjoyed this greatly. I had fun.

• 38:54Doug DeMuro?

  You only do things if they're efficient or, or have a purpose.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  But, but think, think about this though. Track driving is all about efficiency and finding the tightest line and like not wasting, not having fun, not sliding it around, just like find this smooth control. That's what he likes.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  I do think that I'm too cheap to get really into racing.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Track days are expensive. Going deep in that world is a very costly endeavor that I'm just a little bit too cheap for. Like I couldn't spend that much on a hobby for myself.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  You'd like to.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  But I think getting some of that in my life would be rewarding.

• 39:28Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Which we say, I will also note this car is being auctioned with with proceeds to benefit the American Brain Tumor Association, which is great work in kind of sharing stories of and promoting research around brain cancer, which the owner of this car's wife had and has thankfully recovered from. So, great cause. We're also donating our buyer's fee to the American Brain Tumor Association. Go watch the video, go watch me spin, and then talk a lot about how that happened, what went wrong, etc. While we're doing some of those other laps.

• 39:57Doug DeMuro?

  People doing that in the comments, are they eviscerating you for your?

• 39:59Speaker 03

  No, no, no. I didn't hit a wall. I recovered from it. And then talked a bunch with with Wes, who was instructing me about kind of how to avoid that in the future.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  There was a great, there was a great camera angle that looks at the front wheel. And you can see right when Filippo makes the correction he needs to for to not hit the wall. And I mean, that's like, you need to, you need to find your limits before, you know, and know where they are. And you did. And I, I watched the video. I thought it was a great video. And I think you did a fantastic job driving on the track. Your first time also to drive on a wet track.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was questionable. I didn't fully appreciate the situation I was getting myself into. But I did recover from it. I think a lot of that is, I've been replying to a bunch of the comments on the video. I think a lot of that is just paying attention when people talk about track driving and also just driving cars a lot and driving cars in snow. I think, because I grew up in Wisconsin, taught me a lot about like, car dynamics in that way, that applied even if a little bit instinctually. But I recommend it.

• 40:55Doug DeMuro?

  When you were a little boy and you left Italy to go to Wisconsin, were you like, damn, it's cold?

• 41:01Speaker 03

  There were a couple of waypoints in New England first. But I did think a lot about how large vehicles were. My stepdad, when we first moved to the US, had a XJ Cherokee, which is now a small vehicle.

• 41:14Doug DeMuro?

  But they sold those in Europe.

• 41:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, but nobody had them. They existed. But no, nobody in suburban Milan had anything larger than a Fiat Panda. And therefore, I'd never seen a car that large. It was, I'd never seen an SUV, never seen an American truck.

• 41:28Doug DeMuro?

  Speaking of large vehicles, I have a Talk Cars segment for you, Filippo.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  For me personally?

• 41:34Doug DeMuro?

  I've become, I've gotten back into my Sequoia. I think it's cool now. I love it. I want different wheels. We can have that conversation on a later pod. I want to get maybe some black Rhinos. But, but.

• 41:46Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, I was looking last night at alternatives as I often am and I always kind of, I look at alternatives to make myself feel better about the decision I made.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 41:54Doug DeMuro?

  You know what I discovered? Do you know what the fuel range of a diesel suburban is? The, the fuel range, so how far it can travel between?

• 42:04Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:05Doug DeMuro?

  Diesel suburban.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  I imagine, all right, let me math this out. I imagine like max fuel kind of like 25, large tank, cause why not? You got a suburban. Like you got all the space in the third, behind the third row and all the space underneath for a gas tank. 700 miles? 800?

• 42:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, 700.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  That's a lot of miles.

• 42:23Doug DeMuro?

  30, 730 miles of ga, of range. Now the Sequoias range is 250, which is light. Uh, 700.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 42:34Doug DeMuro?

  Miles of range, but listen to this. They offer a Tahoe Z71 diesel. So you can get the off, the Tahoe, the full-size SUV with the Z71, the off-road, the lockers, all that stuff and the diesel powertrain, but there's no supercruise. They don't offer supercruise on that.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  Why?

• 42:53Doug DeMuro?

  They came close to building that car and they didn't do it.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Why?

• 42:58Doug DeMuro?

  But the other problem that I have with the suburb, with the diesel suburban and Tahoe, is that they, you know that, that diesel engine is a six-cylinder.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:09Doug DeMuro?

  It turns out, they didn't make it, that Duramax, didn't make it like a big old burly thing like I would have wanted. And so my Sequoias hybrid V6 has like a hundred pound feet more than the diesel, the diesel in the suburban.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  There's a diesel for efficiency and towing, not for speed.

• 43:25Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, well towing torque, that torque is, torque is, torque is what it's all about, man. That's what I'm, that's what I'm here for. I'm here for the torque. Me and Kenan are torque guys.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  That's what, 80, 200 pounds?

• 43:37Doug DeMuro?

  That's why Kenan got Emily a 335D.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  That's right. Torque monster, JB14 in that thing, pull stumps.

• 43:43Doug DeMuro?

  He's like.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  I know how those, I know how the diesel bros talk, uh, for the E90 platform.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  Pull stumps in your, your E90?

• 43:54Doug DeMuro?

  Anyway, 720 miles range, imagine that. So you just, you know, diesel suburban's got like 15,000 miles on it. They've only filled up like 11 times.

• 44:03Speaker 03

  That's impressive.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  I mean genuinely, like the fuel sitting there for so long, does it start to go bad? Like in the time that you have?

• 44:11Doug DeMuro?

  The, that 700 mile range is only under optimal circumstances.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Well, of course. But I mean, suboptimal, it's still over 500, like.

• 44:20Doug DeMuro?

  Absolutely. You can get in that car and it's, yeah, the way I drive that car, no joke, I would only fill up between September and May, I would only fill up once, probably.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  I don't imagine.

• 44:29Doug DeMuro?

  With diesel, I'd have to go to a truck stop.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, you kind of like that, though.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  It fits you.

• 44:35Doug DeMuro?

  Especially in a suburban. You show up at a truck stop in a suburban, it's like, hey, because you, you, you both are driving big vehicles.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, your rig.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Equally long.

• 44:44Doug DeMuro?

  Equally long.

• 44:45Speaker 01

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• 45:29Speaker 01

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• 46:13Speaker 01

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• 46:34Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan, tell us what's wrong with the M5.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, so there are nothing major. The M5 has been.

• 46:40Doug DeMuro?

  You know about this already?

• 46:40Speaker 01

  No. M5 has been incredibly reliable since its most recent service, the E39, which was just great. However, I looked over in the mirror the other day.

• 46:47Doug DeMuro?

  Of course it's been reliable.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, but I mean, major service. That was a minor one, like the last major one it had was last summer.

• 46:53Doug DeMuro?

  How expensive was it had there been a full bill not covered by the fact that they did some of those?

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, had it been, I mean, offense to Ryan, but had it not, had I been done right the first time? And it wasn't, it wasn't his fault. Like, then I don't know, it's kind of a moot point. Like, it would have been already.

• 47:08Doug DeMuro?

  Regardless, a minor.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  So zero is the correct answer.

• 47:11Doug DeMuro?

  3500 is probably 4 grand. Yeah, anyway, continue that minor service.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, so I noticed, I looked over in the mirror the other day and one of the mirrors is starting to delaminate, which is weird. There's these bubbles that are starting to appear in the mirror. I think they're about $400 aside for the glass, if there are any left in the world, which I think there might be. But I, I, I'm being really strict about the things that I do to the cars I have talked about before. My friends recently got me all pitched in to have new windows and put on my car. It's my birthday present, which is very nice. I'm gonna schedule that and do a couple of little cosmetic things to the car. But I've decided to like, let the mirror go. There's also a squeak that I noticed is coming. It's like a rotational squeak, which I think is one of the heat shields or dust shields for the brakes. But I'm not sure. Just letting it go. I'm deciding to live with a couple of things.

• 47:55Doug DeMuro?

  I'm proud of you.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  For the first time, my entire ownership with the car, I'm deciding to live with a couple of minor issues.

• 48:01Doug DeMuro?

  Proud of you.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  You know, this is not easy for me. I know it sounds stupid, but it's, I look over in the mirror and that's all I see are those little damn bubbles that are starting to form.

• 48:11Doug DeMuro?

  You know, some would argue.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  What, those aren't problems? Oh, just keep going.

• 48:17Doug DeMuro?

  You've taken it this far. Are you, are you really gonna start letting it fall to crap? Are you looking at the M5 right now?

• 48:23Speaker 03

  I, I'm trying, I'm gonna go through the bubbles.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  They're in, yes, it's the passenger side mirror, top of, top of the passenger side exterior mirror. Now, I, look, I am good, I will do it at some stage, I'm sure I will, but I'm just waiting for it to get a little worse.

• 48:37Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, alright, so you're gonna fix it. Can I make a suggestion?

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:41Doug DeMuro?

  You don't need to find new glass. Like, there are cars out there, you could just take the glass from that are in junkyards because...

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Well, alright, how, you think it's easy to find an E39 M5 in the junkyard? You're out of your mind. That's very hard to find.

• 48:53Doug DeMuro?

  You can find an E39 528i, which is a 2000

• 48:56Speaker 01

  No, what are you talking?

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Different.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  The mirrors are completely different. The M5 mirrors are, are ovular and

• 49:01Speaker 03

  However,

• 49:02Speaker 01

  They're aerodynamically shaped.

• 49:03Doug DeMuro?

  I put on the 528i mirrors just to screw with people.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  There's also no visible anything.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yes, it is absolutely there. Oh, I will, I will send a picture that we can overlay and you will see it. I will take a picture.

• 49:16Doug DeMuro?

  I need to see this and decide for myself. By the way, I was one of those friends that shipped it on the window tint. Kind of pricey. Alright, let's move on.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. I'm very excited for it to go to Kevin, but yes.

• 49:28Doug DeMuro?

  Market report, we gotta talk about the market report. The market report is brought to you by the elephant head that is behind me. The, are you mad because it's not brought to you by Cars and Bids? Should it be brought to you by Cars and Bids?

• 49:40Speaker 03

  It should be brought to you by Cars and Bids.

• 49:41Doug DeMuro?

  My bad. Okay, it's not brought to me by the elephant head. Although, I just wanted to show because I killed this elephant myself on safari in Mongolia in 1983.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  I'm very Prior to your birth, impressive.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  Very, very proud of you. Massively.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  You know, if you have a time machine, if you could lend it to Nissan so that they could go and fix their problems, that would be great.

• 50:03Doug DeMuro?

  I'm glad you guys were impressed. Um, his name's John. Anyway, um, wait, Cars and Bids brings us to us. Cars and Bids, the best place to buy or sell an enthusiast's car. There's an app, you can download it in the App Store, go to carsandbids.com to check out all of the latest cars and their bids. Is that?

• 50:23Speaker 03

  I'm so proud of you.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Pretty good, that was well done.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  And we're gonna cut that and put that everywhere. We're gonna just cut that little clip, that's all we needed for the last three years.

• 50:32Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 51:03Doug DeMuro?

  All right, why don't you get AI to say it? Okay, I want to talk about a few things on the market report, and you all do too. There's a lot to cover in the market report, which is not typical, but I want to talk GMC Topkick for a second. Here's something we can't cut into a short because nobody's ever heard of this car. Did you see this, Kenan? Yep, I did. We sold the GMC Topkick. Okay, I want to make a point here. We sold this GMC Topkick, 05 Topkick with only 20,000 miles. It's got a long life left. It's a low-stress diesel engine. It's like a 38-liter diesel. And, or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, there it is. And it sold for only $58,000. And I say only because it strikes me that people in the world, this world that we live in, go out and they try to buy the biggest truck they can to flex and to be cool and

• 51:47Doug DeMuro?

  to seem cool and to be like the big truck guy in their world. And they spend often $100,000 on some 2,500, 3,500 GMC Sierra. For 58 grand, you could buy a Topkick and you are beating out all of those people. Do you agree with me, Felipe? All of them.

• 52:06Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, you get mistaken for the dump truck guy that just bares to pick up the trash that they've left, that they've left in their garage.

• 52:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that's not a level. In the communities where the bigness of truck is the judgment of your worth, being mistaken for the dump truck guy is not a bad thing. It's a positive. Pull up the interior.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  You show up to your friend's house and they just like open up the garage and say, "Yeah, you can take that and that and that and bring it to the dump for me."

• 52:36Doug DeMuro?

  Look at the wood. Look at the wood. Do you see?

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is nice. That's nice.

• 52:40Doug DeMuro?

  Look at the leather. Felipe, you see this leather?

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Modifications, by the way, both.

• 52:44Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan, you telling me that you're not interested in a nice Topkick? Go to photo number 47, there's a bed. This thing's got a bed.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  That's so cool.

• 52:56Speaker 03

  I'm changing everything I said. And I also love the Sierra pickup bed from that's on this is also modification and looks a little odd to me. But I somehow the lines actually work.

• 53:09Doug DeMuro?

  All those heavy duty, it's probably because it's sold as a strip chassis. I think that's how they do it.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, probably.

• 53:16Doug DeMuro?

  Guys like the Ford one and all them, they always have just a regular super duty bed because they don't know what else to do. And so it always looks weird, but I still, you're a winner.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  I want to be clear, I love this. I think legit, I don't know that I think 58 grand is like a deal.

• 53:31Doug DeMuro?

  What do you mean?

• 53:32Speaker 03

  A deal is a strong word.

• 53:33Doug DeMuro?

  Felipe, people spent 120 grand for their F350. You have that King Ranch.

• 53:39Speaker 03

  Well, they want, they want that big screen in the middle and they want 30 cup holders and this car only has like four.

• 53:45Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, well 58 grand, then you take it to exhibit.

• 53:49Doug DeMuro?

  No, I'm kidding, but like you could just add stuff. I mean, like there's a lot of replay screens you can put in with the savings and you go around and you are the coolest guy in the world. I can't believe Nick doesn't have one of these.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Don't, don't tempt him.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Crazy Nick should have one of these, except that it wouldn't fit on a street probably.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  I will say it does look like it was designed in Microsoft Paint.

• 54:07Doug DeMuro?

  Why don't you have one of these?

• 54:10Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Well, that's fascinating.

• 54:12Doug DeMuro?

  You don't think, you don't think that this is an interesting vehicle?

• 54:15Speaker 03

  I think it's fascinating. I'm glad it's sold. No clue what the market is because every other one has been used by a dump truck service.

• 54:22Doug DeMuro?

  What the market is for big flex, flex tough guy pickups? And this seems like a deal.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  It does, okay, go back to other Topkicks and go to the first one we auctioned.

• 54:32Doug DeMuro?

  No.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  Three years ago.

• 54:33Doug DeMuro?

  It was old.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  I know, but that looks so cool.

• 54:36Doug DeMuro?

  No, that's too, that's not.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  That's cartoonish.

• 54:40Doug DeMuro?

  In the communities where my Sequoia and where the Topkick is successful, like, like Vicksburg, Mississippi.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 54:47Doug DeMuro?

  The old one isn't play, this plays.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  This is what, you know what else I'll know? I think frequently about the fact that your video on the Ford F650, which is like Ford's equivalent of this. It's, I think to this day, one of your highest best performing videos, like just sheer number of views.

• 55:04Doug DeMuro?

  All of Vicksburg watched that video. Do you understand me?

• 55:09Speaker 03

  Not only all of Vicksburg, all of every person in the South watched that video. I don't know. At this point.

• 55:17Doug DeMuro?

  Filippo and Kenan, you both want to discuss the Porsche tractors, so let's just get it out of the way.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:22Speaker 03

  Seventeen point three million views on that video, by the way.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Look at this. So for those who are unaware, Porsche did make tractors in the 1950s. It was in addition to, you know, what would later become their sports car manufacturing. Like Lamborghini, they also made tractors. Of course, Lamborghini happened to start there. This one we had on the site, this was a junior, a 108 junior, and sold for 18,750. And I think it just underscores the level of quirkiness we are willing to go do to sell on Cars and Bits. Because to be honest with you, when we started this thing, I did not think that we would have tractors on it at some stage.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  And aren't you glad we do?

• 55:54Speaker 01

  But I am. And there's also, I believe it's a Goodwood, their Goodwood revival every year, they race Porsche tractors. They do a tractor sprint, which you would then be eligible with, with this thing.

• 56:04Doug DeMuro?

  Can I ask you a question?

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 56:06Doug DeMuro?

  Would we run, would we have run this if it wasn't a Porsche? Is, is, is the fact that it's a Porsche like?

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, I'm, look, I'm not expecting to see John Deere's anytime, but I'll tell you, nothing runs like a deer. But I'm not, if we had Lamborghini tractors on at some point, I'd be here for that. Porsche tractors here for that.

• 56:21Speaker 03

  We draw the line at four tractors. They made too many.

• 56:24Doug DeMuro?

  Would, would?

• 56:24Speaker 01

  They did make a lot of.

• 56:26Doug DeMuro?

  Lamborghini tractor, do they still make tractors? They do?

• 56:28Speaker 01

  They do.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 56:30Doug DeMuro?

  Do they look like Gallardo's?

• 56:32Speaker 03

  No.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  Now, Whistlin probably would make a tractor look like a Gallardo. Here's an idea for you, Cody.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:43Doug DeMuro?

  Cody doesn't watch this. Cody doesn't have time for us. Cody is busy blowing things up.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:49Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, so wait a minute, we sold the Porsche tractor. What did it sell for?

• 56:52Speaker 03

  Eighteen, seven, fifty.

• 56:53Doug DeMuro?

  And where we, Filippo, give us an educated take on the market for the Porsche, whatever that was, track.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  You know, I think the Porsche, the fact that enthusiasts are very into Porsche and remain very into Porsche, and special old Porsches, uh, 356 is anything that's kind of like vintage Porsche is still really hot. That's reflected here in a literal tractor that was imported from Germany.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  Unclear which side of Germany, selling for 18,750. Feels like the market correct amount, but a rising market.

• 57:26Doug DeMuro?

  Can you, Felipe, that's, that's, that's really great analysis that I'm sure I have no bearing in reality. Kenan, can you pull up 2004 Porsche? Can you type 2004 Porsche into the search bar? I want to make a point here. That tractor sold for 18,750. I know what you're gonna say. This, go down, that Cayenne, that first one, that Cayenne, click on that first one. That Cayenne sold for something less. What was it 15 something?

• 57:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, 15301.

• 57:48Doug DeMuro?

  That car's got a snorkel and orange wheels, okay? Now, I gotta be honest with you, I know it's a six cylinder and I know it's a six cylinder from the Volkswagen Golf. I understand all that. Nonetheless, if I'm, if I'm interested in a car and I'm, the, the, the Cayenne buyer paid three grand less and he doesn't have to get wet.

• 58:05Speaker 03

  But, but the, the tractor has a six speed manual.

• 58:10Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, okay, tractor wins. All right, give us the next, uh, give us the next, uh, market report.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Can we talk about the Octa Defender?

• 58:19Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, we got an Octa on the site.

• 58:21Speaker 03

  We have an Octa on the site, just Octa, that's great. So people don't know that this exists because they vaguely know that the Defender 110 V and 90 V8 exists, which is a Defender with a V8. The Octa is like the M version of Land Rover. The Defender Octa is the only one that ever, like the first time they've done a high performance one. But it has 626 horsepower. It's a 108 more than the regular V8 Defender.

• 58:46Doug DeMuro?

  Wow.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  It has a, like, very, like, sport performance tuned air suspension system. And it's a wide body and it's cool. I love seeing automakers kind of first attempt at making something like really enthusiast focused. It's like, it's like Land Rover's Raptor. They Raptor-ify the Defender.

• 59:06Doug DeMuro?

  You know, you see that.

• 59:07Speaker 03

  Carbon fiber.

• 59:08Doug DeMuro?

  You say that, but I always actually was a little disappointed that the Octa wasn't more raptorized because

• 59:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:14Doug DeMuro?

  They gave it a lot more power, but they didn't like, like it would have been cool to see like real flared fenders and real like off road.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  It's wider.

• 59:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I know it's a little wider and they got, it looks like they finally figured out how to put a recovery hook in the front of the Defender. God, my biggest complaint about that when I had mine.

• 59:30Speaker 03

  It looks so cool. The wheels work like stylistically it works and 626 horsepower is real power. The regular VA Defender like squats down and propels you forward. This goes more.

• 59:42Doug DeMuro?

  Did you drive the VA Defender when I had it or were you?

• 59:45Speaker 03

  No.

• 59:46Doug DeMuro?

  It was fast. It had real power. The Defender Octa sticker is 170,000 United States dollars.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  Posh. By the way, they have not made many. They haven't sold many. This is the first one I've seen like around and I'm excited that it's on Cars and Bets because we get to see the market.

• 1:00:01Doug DeMuro?

  They're probably tariffed like crazy.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  I would imagine.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  I'm sure if they weren't already here, they will be. Yeah. This is of course also addition one. I have no clue what the market is because

• 1:00:11Doug DeMuro?

  They're not.

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  How hard are they to get? Nobody knows. Well, we will find out.

• 1:00:15Doug DeMuro?

  Have you seen?

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  It'd be cool. No, except for this one, which is somewhere near us. It's in Diamond Bar.

• 1:00:21Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, that is pretty cool. I want to talk to you about, uh, Macans.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 1:00:28Doug DeMuro?

  This is my, um, my market report topic for the day. I want to talk to you about Macans. Can you pull up, can you type in Macan Turbo Cannon?

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:38Doug DeMuro?

  Um, it hit me the other day that

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  Macan Turbo?

• 1:00:42Doug DeMuro?

  Turbos are selling pretty regularly, pretty regularly in the 20 to 20, let's call it 18 to 25,000 dollar range. Some have sold for 15 and then obviously newer ones sell for more, but 18 to 25,000 dollars will buy you a decent, legitimately decent Macan Turbo. Okay? Now, I don't know how much you guys know about these cars, but this car is, is pretty serious. It's a dual clutch. It's all wheel drive. It's 400 horsepower, twin turbo V6, not four cylinder, V6. And it's got 406 pound feet of torque, a little more than 400. These are pretty cool. Now, everybody in the world is into hot hatches. Like Filippo's got his little hot hatch. Actually, he's got two of them.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  One of them.

• 1:01:25Doug DeMuro?

  It's a convertible somehow. It's a hatchback and a convertible. I don't know how I figured all that out.

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:01:30Doug DeMuro?

  But this, this is like, if you're a hot hatch guy, why aren't you interested in one of these? I understand it's an SUV, but we're talking about a spread of inches here and it steers and handles not that differently from a hatchback. It really doesn't.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Two things to say. One, the 500 is not a hatch. It doesn't have a hatch, it doesn't hatch up. It has a normal trunk. Therefore, it is not a hatchback. It is a something else. A small, fast little car, city car. It's a lot of hatchbacks.

• 1:01:55Speaker 03

  Fast as a hot hatchback.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Number two, it's quick. That car, the way that turbo comes on, it's just old school turbocharging because all at once, very fun.

• 1:02:01Doug DeMuro?

  Hatchback.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  I think the thing that holds, that's a hatchback. Your A-Class was a hatchback. That's correct. And so is a Ferrari 812, technically. But this car, I think the reason is that these cars, and just everything Porsche is expensive to take care of. All of the consumables on this car are really expensive. And these cars are not that reliable, is my understanding. They have some issues.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  And so like, you're taking on more of a risk than like a GTI in this car.

• 1:02:26Doug DeMuro?

  Are you? I mean, that's, you're comparing it against cars like the Golf R and the Audi RS3. Well, aren't those cars also difficult to own and expensive to own? I mean,

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Not as expensive as this.

• 1:02:35Doug DeMuro?

  All-wheel drive, this is practical, it's got 400 horse, twin-turbo V6. This is a pretty exciting car.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  You, you call it the McCant. That's what you call it. You say that it's not for... You call it the McCant. It's, I think it's because it just has a reputation of being kind of a car that's driven by like suburban moms.

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  The turbo doesn't, though.

• 1:02:57Doug DeMuro?

  That's the thing. That's the thing. Like, the Defender has that reputation too, but the Octa is the 626 horsepower version. Like, all I'm saying is, if I'm looking, and by the way, Ken, a lot of my criticism of the con comes, it's a new car at $80,000, $85,000, $25,000, at 400 horse, all-wheel drive, and have you driven one? They are fun. They are fun. They are fast little cars. They actually drive not that different from hot hatches. And I know that's enthusiast-like sacrilege to say that a crossover could possibly equi... Bet you get on track with a Golf R and this is probably about as fast, if not a little quicker.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm looking at a Golf R that we sold last week. There was a 2015, 98,000 miles, sold for 15,750. There's a 2015 Macan turbo with 10,000 more miles, so just over 100K. We just sold for 16,500. The Golf R has 292 horsepower. The Macan has 108 more.

• 1:03:49Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, and I know the Macan doesn't have a stick, and if you want a manual, I would go the.

• 1:03:52Speaker 03

  Neither does that Golf R. That Golf R was automatic.

• 1:03:55Doug DeMuro?

  Right, that's the thing. There's a lot of these hot hatches don't even have manual transmissions. And so it's like.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  I agree with your point. The Macan turbo is an appealing car, given that it is a hot hatch, just more powerful than any other hot hatch.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  When I was on my, when I was on my Cayenne thing, Doug told me specifically I can't get a Macan.

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  Well, he's wrong.

• 1:04:15Doug DeMuro?

  Well, I, I do think that the, I do think that for a, in a lot of, for a lot of reasons, the Cayenne is, is more appealing for a lot of people.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Well, it also costs about the same, to be clear, for the generator.

• 1:04:27Doug DeMuro?

  What are you looking for? I mean, your, your whole thing was you wanted a car that could drive over dips in the road. The, the, the Macan, I think, I'm talking about the Macan as a replacement for a hot hatch as a car you could kind of throw around, but also adds a little bit more practicality than a typical hot hatch, because it has more ground clearance, all-wheel drive, and it's fast. A Cayenne, a Cayenne loses the, the dual clutch and is bigger and, and, and taller, and it's more capable. But, you know, it's not going to be as sporty, but you already have that E39M5 with the bubbling passenger mirror. I mean, it's, it's just, yeah, I, I didn't want to say anything. I had noticed it.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  It genuinely just started like eight days ago.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  I would think that you're a little bit cooler if you show up in a Golf R than if you show up in a Macan turbo.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  I agree with that.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  And that still does impact it, but at the same price point.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  It's compelling.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Man, it's compelling. Neither is the pinnacle of reliability, although both, I haven't heard that many bad things about Macan turbos.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know. I know someone who had a Mumble Lemon Laub, but.

• 1:05:25Doug DeMuro?

  I agree with you that the Golf R is cooler from an enthusiast perspective, and I am not saying the Macan is cooler, for sure. That's not my point. I'm just saying it's something that Golf R people ought to consider as an option now that they've depreciated. At this level, Macan Turbo legitimately drives like a Porsche. It truly does. It is surprisingly fast. It is fun. The dual clutch. It it's it's quick. And by the way, the other the other cool secret about the Macan is because they never redesigned it. A fourteen, a fifteen Macan doesn't really look that different from the Macan. They were they still sell the gas Macan to this day. Your neighbors will never know you didn't spend eighty six thousand dollars for a car.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  For better or worse.

• 1:06:03Doug DeMuro?

  That's what Filippo is trying to do. He's trying to impress his neighbors.

• 1:06:07Speaker 03

  He's balling on a budget. I I that is a little opposite of my life approach. Uh, period. But I, okay, I'm looking at, because I'm still on the Macan and the Golf R that I pull up for me. The Golf R, the diesel for the same amount within rounding, kind of for mileage. Golf R was forty K, new in twenty fifteen. The Macan Turbo was ninety three five.

• 1:06:26Doug DeMuro?

  There you go.

• 1:06:27Speaker 03

  First of all, how? How? A second, there there's a downside, which is things will be more expensive. Oil changes will be more expensive.

• 1:06:34Doug DeMuro?

  Brakes.

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  A little harder. It it all gets a little bit more costly. But you're also getting what was in twenty fifteen, twice as much car for the same price point. That becomes appealing. I'm with you.

• 1:06:44Doug DeMuro?

  And a Porsche. You can tell people I drive a Porsche. And they'll be like, ooh, which one? And then you go.

• 1:06:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. Got that heritage. You gotta turn the key with your left hand. That's confusing.

• 1:06:52Doug DeMuro?

  Turn the key with your left hand, just like Jackie Ickx did in sixty seven. All right, let's go to questions. Questions are brought to you by, well, certainly not any Mini Coopers. Uh, okay, questions. First question, there there are some good questions today. There are some good questions today, uh, and there are some bad questions. Filippo, do not look at the questions.

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  He's cheating.

• 1:07:14Doug DeMuro?

  The first question is the very, it was the top voted question, and it's from Indican. And the question is, which modern supercar has the perfect DNA to be a shooting brake design success story? It's a good question. If you could turn any modern supercar into a shooty shooty.

• 1:07:33Doug DeMuro?

  What would you do?

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Any supercar?

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  Right, how are we defining a supercar?

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  Well, I mean.

• 1:07:39Doug DeMuro?

  Any like expensive, like expensive, modern, cool situation?

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  I think the, well, I mean, I don't know, because immediately that makes me think, okay, it has to be front-engined.

• 1:07:49Doug DeMuro?

  Gotta be front.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  So I think that it would have to be, because otherwise, I think.

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  The Renault R5 Turbo did it.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Okay, all right, all right, Filippo. Um, I mean, the Ferrari Dodici Chalindri seems like a good, I mean, that seems like a natural one to do that, too. Any of the Aston Martins, I think, would look great, and Zagato has done that in the past.

• 1:08:09Doug DeMuro?

  Um, yep.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:08:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I agree with those. What about the Rolls Royce R8?

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Oh, I think they did do one for.

• 1:08:19Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, no, that's the one that, that's the one that what's his name has, that Dario Francidi has.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:24Doug DeMuro?

  They didn't do it, but some company did it for him.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Some company did it for him, yeah.

• 1:08:27Doug DeMuro?

  Um, I agree with those. Those are good. Aston's and the Dodici Chalindri, uh, the Dodici Chalindri, the Dodici Chalindri.

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  I was wondering how it would get worse, but I knew it would.

• 1:08:38Doug DeMuro?

  What about, you don't look as, you don't look as cool as a hatch as a She-Ron.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Oh, well, that'd be pretty hot back there.

• 1:08:47Speaker 03

  Take.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Can't put any chocolate in the trunk of that thing.

• 1:08:50Doug DeMuro?

  Remember when Porsche announced that special witches thing and I wanted to make a Cayman hatchback? Or like a Cayman, like wagon?

• 1:08:56Speaker 03

  That would work.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  That would have been cool.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  The, the, the 296 Edgeplexing aside, I think would look good.

• 1:09:02Doug DeMuro?

  I think you could do it in some of these low, mid-engine cars.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Mid-engine cars.

• 1:09:06Doug DeMuro?

  It would almost be like, like it wouldn't be purposeful.

• 1:09:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:09:10Doug DeMuro?

  But the Dodici Chalindri is definitely the one.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. It would look like that Daytona that they did wagonize. Do you know the car?

• 1:09:17Doug DeMuro?

  Or the bread van.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, I don't know.

• 1:09:21Doug DeMuro?

  He'll laugh because he doesn't know what the bread van is. Ken, you gotta educate him. When we get off this call, you gotta educate the hell out of him.

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  God, I look so bad.

• 1:09:28Doug DeMuro?

  That looks terrible. Is that a?

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  I saw, I saw it in person at Amelia Island. I think it looked, it looked much better in person, but that curved glass is ridiculous.

• 1:09:36Doug DeMuro?

  The 250 GTO bread van, Filippo, is one of the most famous Ferraris of all time.

• 1:09:42Speaker 03

  Hold up, Ken. I'm familiar, for the record.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:09:45Doug DeMuro?

  You are not familiar.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Bizzarini did this himself.

• 1:09:49Doug DeMuro?

  Look at that.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Of course not. You think I wouldn't be familiar?

• 1:09:53Doug DeMuro?

  You don't know the.

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  You think I wouldn't know?

• 1:09:54Doug DeMuro?

  I'll teach you about it. Okay, uh, next question, this is a good one, from Big Ultima Hater 6.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  Aw.

• 1:10:01Doug DeMuro?

  Given the recent success of RS3 and E63 wagons, and the insanely high resale value of the second-generation Cadillac CTS wagon on the used market, why hasn't Cadillac made a CT5V Blackwing wagon?

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:10:18Doug DeMuro?

  I will tell you my personal opinion, this is not gonna be a joking answer, shockingly. The AMG and RS6 wagons have been successful, however, they are also based upon standard cars, which in other markets are quite popular. My presumption is that Cadillac cannot justify the creation of a CT5 station wagon unless there is a base model, which is one of the reasons why they did do a base model CTS non-V wagon back in 2010, and it wasn't successful. And so my presumption is that if they, if you could make money making just a wagon body style for the V, they would do it, because it would be hot, but I bet that they can't justify that, whereas the Euros can, because

• 1:11:02Doug DeMuro?

  they have the A6 Avant, and they have the 5 Series Touring, and that sort of thing. That's my guess.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Yep, that seems, that seems like a fair assessment, but man, that would be cool.

• 1:11:10Doug DeMuro?

  You wanna know what car would look best as a shooting brake?

• 1:11:13Speaker 03

  The CT5V Blackwing. No, the CT6V would actually look best, but that's okay. I'm, I'm, I'm a big wagon guy.

• 1:11:20Doug DeMuro?

  I hate big wagons. I'm a, I'm a mid-sized wagon. I hate small wagons and I hate big wagons. I am a mid-sized wagon guy.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  I, I, it's also worth noting for people that might not be as aware, the, in Europe, which is obviously the home markets for BMW, Audi, Mercedes, their wagons are all used, like, base model E-Class wagons, 5 Series wagons, A, A6 wagons are all the A6s, E-classes, 5 Series that they sell, in Germany especially. Like, that is their bread and butter product. The product that's most important for the European market.

• 1:11:52Doug DeMuro?

  E-Class sedans, but yeah.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure, but like...

• 1:11:54Doug DeMuro?

  It's probably a 50/50 splitter, a 70/30, or, yes, it's a huge portion. They don't make those wagons for enthusiasts. If, if the standard models stopped selling, there would be no AMG wagon anymore.

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  No shot.

• 1:12:05Doug DeMuro?

  And so that's probably the answer to that, which is sad, because I think that would be incredibly, incredibly, incredibly cool.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  I think the market would agree.

• 1:12:11Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, Filippo, I got one for you for the next question, and you're gonna have to just live with it and roll with it, okay?

• 1:12:19Speaker 03

  I'm ready.

• 1:12:20Doug DeMuro?

  From Toyota 2Runner.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:12:23Doug DeMuro?

  That's the 4Runner they have in Florida. From Toyota 2Runner, how would you rank the generations of the Mercedes S-Class?

• 1:12:32Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:12:33Doug DeMuro?

  Do you know the S-Class gens, Filippo?

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  I'm pulling them up, one second.

• 1:12:37Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 1:12:38Speaker 03

  How far back we going?

• 1:12:40Doug DeMuro?

  Back to the 126.

• 1:12:42Speaker 03

  Okay, good.

• 1:12:42Doug DeMuro?

  Which is 79. W140, W140 is first and W220 is last.

• 1:12:52Speaker 03

  Fully agreed.

• 1:12:54Doug DeMuro?

  Everything other than that, I'm open to a conversation about.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  Ken, do you have strong thoughts here? Does Doug and I?

• 1:13:01Doug DeMuro?

  Ken, do you agree with me about the 140 and the 220? You know the ones.

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  I do know the ones.

• 1:13:08Doug DeMuro?

  Bruno Sacco car in the 90s and the 220 was healthy.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, the 220 is definitely the worst and the market agrees. It's those are 4,000 dollar cars now.

• 1:13:18Speaker 03

  I don't think they look bad, to be clear. I actually think the right trim, it's a great looking automobile.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  The S65 looked great, but other than that.

• 1:13:26Doug DeMuro?

  You know, I was thinking about that. This is, this should be a topic for us to discuss, that a lot of the worst generations we rank often have one model that was actually the best of all of them. Like the Diablo, we were ranking all the Lambos. The Diablo is, is, is, we put it kind of in the middle lower, but the SE30 maybe is the best one of all, right? And I, I agree with you. The, the 220 S65 is one of the very best S-classes of all time. It is absolute baller status in the coolest way, but the general vehicle was the best.

• 1:13:57Speaker 03

  Um, all right. Here's my take. I've written down.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Okay. Oh, oh, I get it.

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  A 65 has a little engine problem.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  I see.

• 1:14:04Doug DeMuro?

  You wrote them down?

• 1:14:05Speaker 03

  I've wrote them down. Here's, here's, here's my take. I agree W140 best.

• 1:14:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, Bruno Sacco.

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  Followed, followed by, and I agree W220, 220 last.

• 1:14:16Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  Um, second, I put in the W two twenty one.

• 1:14:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yes.

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  It was such an improvement. It like recreated what the S class should be.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  I agree. And that to me, when I think S class, that is still what I think.

• 1:14:30Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. And honestly, it's that one, which has been modified with aftermarket wheels.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  That's Florida. That's exactly that car.

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  It's, it's still a car that I think looks modern. Still has honestly quite modern equipment. That's great. I debated for a bunch on fourth.

• 1:14:45Doug DeMuro?

  The two twenty one, this is going to be the hottest take of the century, but the two twenty one is the best looking S class. The one forty is also very good looking and, and, and had enormous benefits in its teutonic production. But the two twenty one with its, with its ridiculous fenders was the only time they ever really took a, a risk. And they did it in a wonderful way and it worked out. And I think that's a, that's a, it was a beautiful car then. I remember even, even, even when it came out in two thousand and seven, thinking like, wow, this, this thing looks baller, but not excessive. Like it's the right car.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  That's how they all are with that purple rear windshield tint. I remember that vividly.

• 1:15:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  Okay, so one three twenty one. In a color with the right wheels too, like an S six hundred in mocha espresso.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Brown. Oh, that you bid on?

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  I bid on a couple.

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  All those years ago?

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's been a while. Uh, in the color that my E class wagon actually is, which is, uh.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, I can't search by color.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  I got this right. Uh, I'm going to go two twenty three third.

• 1:15:41Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 1:15:41Speaker 03

  I think that they've done a nice job with the current generation S class. It looks modern. It has everything without it being styled like a seven series, let's say.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  You said two, two, three.

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  I, I think, yeah, I think they've just done generally good job. And when I see one, I think this is a good looking, modern luxury sedan. And they've done a good job of integrating luxury and tech.

• 1:16:00Doug DeMuro?

  But don't you think that the two twenty two was, I mean?

• 1:16:03Speaker 03

  No, no, I put a two twenty two second class.

• 1:16:06Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, you're insane.

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  You're out of your mind. That is a great car for.

• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  It's a good car.

• 1:16:12Doug DeMuro?

  The problem I have with the 223 is that the 222 already did it all.

• 1:16:16Speaker 03

  No, I think that-

• 1:16:17Doug DeMuro?

  23 was too subtle of an evolution for me.

• 1:16:19Speaker 03

  I, I think that about the 222 or the 221. I don't think there was enough of a leap.

• 1:16:23Doug DeMuro?

  That's, that's insane. That would be-

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  You are nuts.

• 1:16:27Doug DeMuro?

  That would be like saying cuddling with a stuffed animal is the same as getting punched in the face.

• 1:16:31Speaker 03

  I, I truly think that the, the leap from 221 to 222 was not significant enough.

• 1:16:37Doug DeMuro?

  That's-

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  You are out of your mind.

• 1:16:38Doug DeMuro?

  It's, you saying that in very clear to me, I've never been in the cars. You're out of the discussion. It's now just me and Kenan.

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I'm on your side with this one. I, I violently disagree with that.

• 1:16:49Doug DeMuro?

  So, it's, it's 140, uh, 221. I think next I would actually put, and this is, this is gonna be, by the way, what we haven't addressed yet, the big sacrilege here is not putting the 126 on this list yet because there are people who are obsessed with the 126, including Hoovy. If Hoovy sees this, and I don't think he watches this pod, thank God, but if he sees this, he's gonna lose it on me for not putting the 126 like at the very top. I just never, the problem I had with the 126, I know it was built well. I know it was, but it had, it has two big problems. Number one, every version of it was slow. There was never a fast one.

• 1:17:26Doug DeMuro?

  And number two, it's, it's, the tech was really not, like, that was the era when luxury was like, by building a car, well, you made a luxury car. It was not particularly advanced. And people are gonna get on here and be like, it was the first car with electronics, stability, phlegmums in the headlight sensor. And that may be true, but like, ultimately, there was different vents in the climate control for heat and cold. And so like, that's not really what I'm looking for in terms of quality.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  But then can you just put it on the list and have it be last for you?

• 1:18:02Doug DeMuro?

  No, uh, the 220 is definitely last, but I think, I think my list is as follows. 140- 221, 222.

• 1:18:10Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:18:11Doug DeMuro?

  1, 223.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:13Doug DeMuro?

  126.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:15Doug DeMuro?

  220. Boom.

• 1:18:16Speaker 03

  Wow. I, I have the 126 higher because it was seminal. And I had the, the 222 a little lower.

• 1:18:22Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan, are you gonna do these? Do you not believe in the S-Class?

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  No, I agree. I agree with your analysis on it. That's, that's how I feel about them.

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  The, the 226 was special.

• 1:18:31Doug DeMuro?

  We didn't talk about the 116, but I'm okay with that. Uh.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  I might put the 221 above as the first, because when I think S-Class, that's just what I think of. It was such a, it like redefined the luxury space for like what it could, what a Mercedes could do. And that's saying a lot from Mercedes. It also saved them from that reputation of the 220, which was quite poor.

• 1:18:52Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Uh, and so I think it actually, but the Bruno Sacco was Bruno Sacco.

• 1:18:56Speaker 03

  I'm changing my order.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  I think I put.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  126 third.

• 1:18:59Doug DeMuro?

  The 221.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  221 first. I love that car.

• 1:19:02Doug DeMuro?

  221 has also an amazing ability of making a car look baller like the new seven series without looking ugly like the new seven series. It's, it's actually kind of hard to do in that segment. A Phantom can do it because they have, they could just make it big and do whatever they want. They have all these design heritage cues they can use, but Mercedes Benz has to be both restrained and baller. And that is actually hard. And the 126 and the 140 are too restrained. Fine with me. Like a restrained car. But the 221 does an amazing job. Like you, if you heard it talked about, you'd think it looks, it went too far, but it didn't. It was really a beautifully designed car.

• 1:19:38Speaker 03

  Baller, but not ugly is a fine balance.

• 1:19:41Doug DeMuro?

  It's especially a fine line in the luxury sedan segment when you're trying to appeal to both like, athletes and people who want to show off, but also executives and people who don't want to show off. That's like a pretty tough group.

• 1:19:54Speaker 03

  Yep. Agreed.

• 1:19:56Doug DeMuro?

  That's a nice look.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  And it still looks good.

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  For the record.

• 1:19:59Doug DeMuro?

  With those wheels. A 600 with those wheels. If, if I could have a 600 with those wheels, I, I would probably be willing to sell Felipe to the devil.

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  I, I bid on this car if memory serves, or I bid on, it, it's been for sale multiple times and I bid on it one of the times. Cause I wanted it. It seemed cheap at that moment. Maybe I didn't bid on this one.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  I know. I'm pretty confident you did.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  I did.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  There you are.

• 1:20:18Speaker 03

  Uh, there was a time. It was, it was nearish to me.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  16.5.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  I'm saying 140, 221, 126, 223, 222, 220.

• 1:20:28Speaker 03

  You disagree with the bike.

• 1:20:29Doug DeMuro?

  You're only putting 126 so high to placate enthusiasts. That's not your actual belief, but fine. Uh, okay.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  It is. I'm staying. Yeah, it is.

• 1:20:36Doug DeMuro?

  I want to talk. I want to talk. And this is, I want to do two, three more questions, and they're very, very good questions, and we have to do them. Okay. There's why we have to have three. Okay. Well, number one from T. Barrett, not T. Barrett, but T. Barrett. Is there a floor on Julia Quads? You recently sold one for 28. Seems like a lot of car for the money. That's an interesting question. I didn't realize they were getting into that level. You guys?

• 1:20:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I've tried to convince our producer Sean to buy one for a while.

• 1:21:03Doug DeMuro?

  We sold one for 27, 250.

• 1:21:06Speaker 03

  Sold another one for 28.

• 1:21:08Doug DeMuro?

  That's 52,000 miles. That looks like a pretty nice car. Yeah, another one for 28.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  I think that, I mean.

• 1:21:14Doug DeMuro?

  That's 55,000 horsepower, right?

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, but it's just it's unreliable and there's nowhere to service.

• 1:21:20Speaker 03

  The M3, by the way, is at the same price point. A 2015 M3 is literally at the same price point.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  I don't know. These have a lot more.

• 1:21:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:27Doug DeMuro?

  F80s are 27.

• 1:21:29Speaker 03

  Aren't they?

• 1:21:30Doug DeMuro?

  I don't.

• 1:21:31Speaker 03

  They should be.

• 1:21:33Doug DeMuro?

  I don't.

• 1:21:34Speaker 03

  Lowest price F80 is 26, 250.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, but this one just sold for 21, 46, 20.

• 1:21:39Speaker 03

  Manual ones. Go to, go to an automatic. I mean, sure. But that's like a good color.

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  This one's an automatic.

• 1:21:43Speaker 03

  That's a good.

• 1:21:46Doug DeMuro?

  Cheap F80s seem to be in that range.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  34.

• 1:21:48Doug DeMuro?

  That one, that one that sold for 20, 26, 250, it's.

• 1:21:52Speaker 03

  But like 30.

• 1:21:53Doug DeMuro?

  Three accidents.

• 1:21:54Speaker 03

  34. We're in the same ballpark.

• 1:21:56Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, well, 34 and 28 are pretty different to me, but fine.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  Right. I agree with Tucker on that one. But.

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  I do think that there's a floor, but I think that floor is 20.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  I think a floor is lower.

• 1:22:09Doug DeMuro?

  That's pretty cool. That's a cool car for 20. I mean, it's Italian, it's cool, it's 500 horse rear wheel drive. I know they didn't do sticks, but that's a pretty cool car.

• 1:22:16Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  But it'll break. I mean, I wanted one when they were new, and the issue was that, like, they just. They just aren't reliable cars.

• 1:22:23Speaker 03

  Today is reliability day for Kenan.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  Well, it's a fact, not an opinion.

• 1:22:26Speaker 03

  I know, but you don't like the Macantra because you drive around in E395, which is not the pinnacle reliability.

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  That's not, that's not.

• 1:22:32Speaker 03

  And now, and now you're very concerned about reliability for every other sports car. It's interesting.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  No, no, I mean.

• 1:22:37Speaker 03

  Who did you become?

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  No, no, my.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  Doug's gone for two weeks.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  My car has, my car has been incredibly reliable for the last seven and a half and 80,000 miles.

• 1:22:44Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan, you want to go on the record on this podcast? You've spent like $80,000 over those seven years.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  Over 10, over a decade and 100,000 miles.

• 1:22:55Speaker 03

  Kenan, Kenan.

• 1:22:57Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan, you know how much money? Dude, I got eight years in the Ford GT and I'm like $16,000 into it.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you haven't driven it 100,000 miles.

• 1:23:06Speaker 03

  We've driven the wagon 10 or 50,000 miles and we're.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's not a performance car.

• 1:23:11Speaker 03

  But, but, but, but my point is not, it's not the pinnacle of reliability.

• 1:23:15Doug DeMuro?

  Goalpost, Filippo, we have to move them. Kenan, that is not a reliable car. And also, by the way, the, the mirrors.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  Well, it's expensive to, it is expensive to maintain, but it has never, it hasn't stranded me in a long.

• 1:23:28Speaker 03

  I mean, that's true.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  What do you, how do you define reliable? Reliable means you can rely upon it. I can take that car anywhere in the country.

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  If you're willing to spend 80 grand on maintenance, you can take any car anywhere in the world.

• 1:23:39Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Well, Julia, you 80 grand of maintenance, buy four of them. You're good.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  You, you're gonna need to.

• 1:23:43Speaker 03

  I could take the Pantera around the world.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  The thing about that is I could take, if, if ultimately I got stranded or I need to go to BMW dealer for service, it could. There aren't that many Alfa.

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  No, I know, that's a real problem.

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  San Diego. They ruin that car.

• 1:23:55Speaker 03

  It's called KNS. It's a Curramesa.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  I thought they closed it.

• 1:23:57Speaker 03

  No, it's all, it's all right.

• 1:23:58Doug DeMuro?

  There is an Alfa Romeo dealer. It's called KNS. They, they do Alfa Romeo. This is an insane conversation.

• 1:24:04Speaker 03

  Do I feel bad for that dealer because they do Alfa Romeo sales? Yes, of course. Who doesn't? But they exist.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  I, the point is, I think that they will continue to go down. They, they did make a ton of them. They are, they don't have a great reputation for reliability. I, I think, and I don't think they sound like good. I think they look awesome and I think they drive pretty well and they're cool, but. I think they're just gonna keep going down.

• 1:24:26Doug DeMuro?

  You want to know something insane? Go to, Kenan, go to Google and type in KNS Alfa Romeo. That's the dealer in San Diego. Go to Google and just type in.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  K and S?

• 1:24:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, K.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  Like ampersand?

• 1:24:36Speaker 03

  Ampersand, yeah.

• 1:24:36Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, yes, Alfa Romeo. Okay, go to that. Go to KNS Alpha. Okay, click on their website.

• 1:24:42Speaker 03

  This is incredible.

• 1:24:43Doug DeMuro?

  Click on their website. Look, the top car, the main car right there is a Mercedes C-Class.

• 1:24:50Doug DeMuro?

  And a BMW, some kind of BMW.

• 1:24:53Speaker 03

  I will, I will note, I look at, I keep an eye out for KNS plate frames around because like it's nice to see what they're selling. Very, very, very few Alfa Bao's and a whole lot of used the German cars.

• 1:25:07Doug DeMuro?

  You gotta admit, that's wild. Dude, if a Porsche, when I worked at Porsche, if a Porsche dealer had done that, the COO would have flown to that dealer that day and murdered the general manager of the dealership right there on the spot for doing that.

• 1:25:19Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:25:20Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. Okay, I got two more. This is a good question from Daddy Doug SRT8. That's the high-performance version of Daddy Doug. Do you think that brands like Toyota and Honda, the reliable brands, will lose some market share as EVs become more prevalent since their main selling point is now reliability? That's some interesting question that I had never considered. Filippo, answer it for us.

• 1:25:41Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters, so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 1:26:12Speaker 03

  I think what Honda and Toyota have secretly done well, and why Lexus sells any cars, is that they deliver, they're generally reliable and they deliver a great experience when something, when they need to go to a dealer. Something that Honda and Kia have done a poor job of, frankly. So I think the question will become less about reliability because like mechanical components won't have problems, but the tech will. And like durability remains a question. If you go into a Camry interior, the leather is not delaminated like it is on that Giulia. So durability will remain a question. And can you deliver a good experience when you go to the dealer for something that does go wrong? Honda and Toyota will still have a differentiation.

• 1:26:46Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but the, but the general feeling is those cars are reliable and they're more reliable and it's not really a differentiation.

• 1:26:52Speaker 03

  But people don't know why. Like they can't point to, oh, wow, the engine is more reliable. They don't know what that means. It's just, it's a more reliable car. It's a more durable car. It lasts forever.

• 1:27:01Doug DeMuro?

  It doesn't break. I think the primary thing, when people are thinking about reliability, I think the primary thing that they're, they're thinking about is, does the car not break?

• 1:27:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. And a lot of EV companies have had problems with especially tech getting cars like having weird tech issues and Toyota and Honda are generally a little more careful. Now, of course, Honda's only EV is built by Chevrolet. And so we'll see.

• 1:27:23Doug DeMuro?

  Well, my point, my, I don't know, I just think that it's an interesting situation. It's an interesting question. I, a lot of people look at that Consumer Reports and all that, and then they hear stories from their friends about reliability and the game might shift. If that's Toyota and Honda's like big thing, the game might shift. It's an interesting question.

• 1:27:41Speaker 03

  Overtime, for sure.

• 1:27:42Doug DeMuro?

  The last question that I want to ask from 2003 Buick Century, this is a very good question.

• 1:27:49Doug DeMuro?

  If you were the CEO of Nissan, what would be the first thing that you would do to try to save the company?

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Give up and go home. I mean, not wrong.

• 1:28:00Doug DeMuro?

  What would you do? Hot hatch?

• 1:28:06Doug DeMuro?

  Lincoln competitor?

• 1:28:09Speaker 03

  I had maybe considered divesting from Mitsubishi, but I, the hardest thing is that Nissan hasn't not done this. I mean, the Rogue is probably their most updated and most competitive product, and that's the class in the US you have to compete in. I would probably just keep going all in on, can I get people into Rogues and can I deliver a decent experience? I think you also have to ditch fleet sales in a large sense, which is hard because they make you revenue. You can sell cars, but I think you have to just kind of accept that that is hurting your brand reputation heavily and you instead just need to find ways to sell cars to consumers.

• 1:28:49Doug DeMuro?

  Now, I think it's a little bit more complicated.

• 1:28:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, also because a lot of Nissan's trouble right now is because they put way too high incentives on cars.

• 1:28:56Doug DeMuro?

  In terms of fleet sales, I have a suspicion the reason that they sell some, I have a suspicion there are major contracts that are signed between suppliers, manufacturers, and the fleet companies where they can't.

• 1:29:07Speaker 03

  Sure. And there's also a lot of hurdles I have to jump through to become the CEO of a publicly traded company. So I think we're in a make believe world here.

• 1:29:16Doug DeMuro?

  Well, some of this, I'm just, my point is some of these fleet sales aren't, you can't get out of them. You have to just go full steam ahead. I think the person wants a product decision from you.

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would legitimately keep investing very heavily on quick rollouts of, which is what they're doing, a quick rollout of core competency products, which in the US right now is fuel efficient and is midsize, smaller SUVs, midsize SUVs, and I think lower cost smaller, like small, small SUVs are where I would focus all my time.

• 1:29:48Doug DeMuro?

  You know what the problem is? They already have.

• 1:29:50Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:29:51Doug DeMuro?

  Three very competent SUVs.

• 1:29:53Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:29:54Doug DeMuro?

  In the three big segments, which is the Rogue, the Pathfinder, and the Armada are all excellent, truly.

• 1:29:59Speaker 03

  And the Kicks, which isn't bad.

• 1:30:00Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, sure. Um, Jesus. But like, okay, so, and but no, but there's not a lot of interest in those vehicles because the brand, the brand reputation is so significantly terrible. Is there anything that can even be done? How did Mazda convince people that they don't suck? Like, you know, like, what did they do to get people? Did they buy off journalists? I'll take a handout from Nissan if they're, if they're interested.

• 1:30:28Speaker 03

  I think that Mazda had the benefit of nobody knew who they were, so it's easy to build from zero than it is to build from.

• 1:30:35Doug DeMuro?

  They had, they had a kind of an average reputation. Listen, my mom strode into the Mazda dealership in October of 2003 and purchased a new Tribute. And at the time, Mazda was not the strongest brand, okay?

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  It's in zoom, you know?

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  Zoom, zoom.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  And plus, Nissan already gave you your handout. They gave, don't forget, they gave you the Z sushi knife.

• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  That's pretty good.

• 1:30:55Doug DeMuro?

  And you know what? I am going to use it to slice Filippo's face off in, in exchange for a W221 S600.

• 1:31:03Speaker 03

  So all it costs to you is 10 grand?

• 1:31:06Doug DeMuro?

  What's, yeah, no, no, that sold for 24. That was a $20,000 car.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  That was a good one.

• 1:31:12Speaker 03

  That was a, that was a nice 221.

• 1:31:14Speaker 01

  That's what he wants.

• 1:31:15Doug DeMuro?

  This is the end of our podcast. Kenan, do you have any, any parting thoughts or beliefs?

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  Well, I think Filippo should be the new CEO of Nissan. It sounds like he would really accelerate there.

• 1:31:24Speaker 03

  But it's.

• 1:31:25Doug DeMuro?

  By the way, my answer to that Nissan question is a completely different marketing strategy and, and adding a little bit more features per dollar to the cars.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  And my answer is close up and go home.

• 1:31:34Speaker 03

  Three different approaches.

• 1:31:36Doug DeMuro?

  Go to the Honda, go to the Honda merger.

• 1:31:38Speaker 03

  Yep, just do it. Just finish it.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  Our best podcast we've ever done.

• 1:31:43Doug DeMuro?

  You are. Okay. Thank you, everyone. This was a good podcast. I would say it's mine and Kenan's best podcast we've ever done. Uh, thank you, everyone for participating.

• 1:31:52Speaker 03

  Hard to argue that.

• 1:31:53Doug DeMuro?

  Well, it was actually, it was Filippo's best and John the Elephant did an okay job, too. Uh, thank you all and we'll see you next week.

• 1:32:01Speaker 03

  And go watch that mini video. It's a good video.

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  Goodbye.

• 1:32:23Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.