Caller: “Is Counseling the Kiss of Death?”

🔥 Microhabits for a Better Marriage. Download the Together app. On today’s episode, we hear about: A woman wondering if counseling will kill her marriage A wife feeling rejected by her husband in their sex life A mom worried that her job is making her a paranoid parent Next Steps:❤️ Get away with your spouse today! 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Go to Capstone Wellness to learn more. Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Go to Joi + Blokes and get 50% off labs and 20% off products. Working knives for working people—Go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Recently, on two different shows, you've mentioned each time that marriage therapy can be the kiss of death for relationships. And I wanted to know, is that gonna be the truth for my case?

• 0:16Dr. John Delony?

  When it comes to marriage therapy, the data on it is not great. But I think there's a context to that data.

• 0:31Dr. John Delony?

  What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Dude, the associate producer Alex is back from his honeymoon. Dude, you're glowing, homie. It was a good time?

• 0:43Speaker 02

  It was amazing.

• 0:44Dr. John Delony?

  Congratulations, man. We're proud of you. We didn't think you were gonna go through it. We thought you were gonna run at the last minute. So that's good. Actually, we knew you were gonna go through it. We thought she was gonna run, but congratulations, my man. That's awesome. Hey, if you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you. We're talking about your mental and emotional health, your marriages, your kids, whatever you've got going on in your life. Pull up a seat for 20 years, 20, more than 20 years now. Good grief, I'm getting old. I've been sitting with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move for you and your family. So give me a call. Actually, click the link in the show notes. We don't use telephones anymore, because hashtag 21st century, so they say. We're gonna go back to landlines one day, I'm telling you all. But let's go out to Louisville, Kentucky, and talk to Christine. Hey, Christine, what's up?

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Hi, John. How are you?

• 1:27Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing great. How are you?

• 1:30Speaker 00

  I'm doing really well. Thanks for taking my call.

• 1:32Dr. John Delony?

  Of course. What's up?

• 1:34Speaker 00

  So my question for you was, is marriage counseling or couples therapy really the kiss of death? So a couple of weeks ago, I scheduled a couples therapy appointment for my husband and I. It'll be our first one. And then I'm an avid listener. So recently, on two different shows, you've mentioned each time that marriage therapy or couples counseling can be the kiss of death for relationships. And I wanted to know, is that gonna be the truth for my case? And how can I approach couples therapy in a way that it is productive and can help us get to our goal and can come out together at the end of it?

• 2:18Dr. John Delony?

  I love that. So, great, great, great question. And thank you for listening and calling in. And awesome. I'm glad that I get to make, make a, my own statement on this, if you will, like clarify myself. So

• 2:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:31Dr. John Delony?

  I'm a believer in therapy. I wouldn't be doing what I do. But I'm a believer in it when you need it and for specific purposes. I do believe that our culture has been way over-therapized. Meaning, I think that therapy has often filled the vacuum of this epidemic of loneliness that we have. We don't have anyone to talk to. We don't have anyone to sit with us. We don't have anyone to hold up a mirror to us. We don't have anyone to challenge us and celebrate us. So we literally have outsourced that. We pay for that. And I think we've over-pathologized everything. Meaning, if your marriage is not doing well, you're supposed to be sad, right? You're supposed to be frustrated. Your anger is

• 3:16Dr. John Delony?

  a good, normal thing. Sad, grief, all those things are normal and right, yet, since they don't feel good, we've said, hey, we can fix that. Instead of, I can sit with you and work through it. When it comes to marriage therapy, here's what I mean when I say it's the kiss of death. Number one, the data on it is not great. But I think there's a context to that data. If you go to marriage therapy, by the time people go to marriage therapy, it's usually one of two things. One of three things. Number one, I want to check this box because I'm done. I want to, either consciously or subconsciously, tell the world, I did

• 3:56Dr. John Delony?

  everything. And we even went to therapy. Or maybe this person can quote unquote, fix us. Which is never gonna be the case. The second reason people go is they want a neutral third party to just air every grievance. And they dump everything in a big Creole stewpot and they just, they just stir it and stir it and stir it and stir it and stir it. Does that make sense? It's like, I think Terry Real, Terry Real is one of the master relationship therapists. He's, he's world-class. But and he talks about the phrase, I just need to get this off my chest, is often not a helpful thing.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 4:36Dr. John Delony?

  So it just becomes, if you think about you have a sack of bricks and your spouse has a sack of bricks, you're just handing the bricks back and forth to each other, right? Or usually, one spouse just gets them all piled on them, or whatever.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:49Dr. John Delony?

  Marriage therapy can be extraordinary if two people are willing to go in there, be honest, with a shared goal of dealing with the challenges in front of us and coming together to build something strong on the other end. And that means you need a good therapist that will take one of you on, that won't just sit there and say, well, how does that make you feel? Watching cruel behavior? That means you need a therapist who will sometimes take sides of one spouse over the other, which goes against most marriage family therapy training. And it takes two spouses, not trying to go in there and win, but trying to go in there and truly learn some new skills they can practice in front of the therapist and then practice outside of the therapist. Does that make sense?

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah, it does. It does, for sure.

• 5:36Dr. John Delony?

  So tell me why y'all are going. Why'd you book an appointment?

• 5:40Speaker 00

  We've been married for, we'll be married five years. In a couple months, we've been together for about seven or eight years. And we have two little kids together. I was previously married. I have an 11-year-old daughter as well. And that was a very young marriage. Like, I kind of don't put too much weight into that. But I just feel like I've just noticed patterns now from the years, you know, like for the beginning years, you know, yeah, there's rough bumps, but you're so in love that you just think like, it'll, we'll get better, we'll get through it. And I do see improvements. But I always see this consistent, like backslide. I think mainly from him, I do want to say, just of like

• 6:24Speaker 00

  effort and leadership and putting us, him and myself together first as like the priority in our lives and our relationship as well. And I just, he doesn't really have a context for what therapy is. So he was very nervous. We had our first appointment yesterday.

• 6:44Dr. John Delony?

  How'd it go?

• 6:44Speaker 00

  And so, I think it went okay. It was very like introductory, where just getting our past history, kind of like mental health history. And she did take each of us by ourselves and said, you know, I'm gonna talk to each of you separately. And, but anything that you may say, or any confession that comes out, you guys are both my clients together. So I will have to share whatever is said, if it is appropriate, you know, or depending on the case. And so, when I was one-on-one with her, I did express my, my issues with his, kind of, in a sense, his lack of emotional intelligence, or just like lack of depth, or wanting to really partner in marriage. And I didn't, whenever he was in the room,

• 7:27Speaker 00

  I did not want to bombard him or make it seem like he's the bad guy. And I think he thought it was gonna be like that going in. So I really want him to get, like, have him experience a safe space as well, so that he can grow and learn different techniques, or even like, open up to different ways of thinking about marriage or about relationships.

• 7:50Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I, I'll tell you, you explaining that to me is fantastic. And you have a pretty clear picture. What I want to challenge you on is, you've already set a dynamic up where it's gonna be very hard for him to win. And here's what I mean.

• 8:07Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:07Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want him to feel these ways, but I believe these things.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:12Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want him to feel like a failure and that he's not stepping up. And I don't want to bombard him. But as soon as he leaves the room, I'm gonna drop all the bombs, because I think he's failing us.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:22Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying? So, and then the second part of that is, I want you to be very open. And in fact, say these things out loud, in front of him, in front of your therapist.

• 8:38Dr. John Delony?

  I came in here thinking that if he would just change, then this whole marriage would be better. But I know that's not true. Cause you need to change too.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Right, definitely.

• 8:49Dr. John Delony?

  And what I find, not all the time, there is times when one spouse is just a jerk, they do have a narcissistic personality disorder, they are just lacking a ton of skills that make it impossible to plug into, right? Or they're struggling with addiction or mental health issues, whatever. But almost, not almost always, but a huge portion of the time, he probably learned early on, I, what I do here is wrong. I don't put the towels the right way. I don't put the toothpaste up the right way. I don't put the dishes in the dishwasher the right way. And so I'm just gonna back out of here slowly.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:27Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 9:28Speaker 00

  Um.

• 9:29Dr. John Delony?

  I don't do this with the kids, right? And so these dynamics usually co-create themselves. And the reason marriage therapy doesn't work is because people go into a therapist, so the therapist will fix their spouse.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:40Dr. John Delony?

  Instead of help reimagine and rebuild the interaction between two people, trying to build one cool, awesome thing together.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  Definitely. I agree with that. And I'm, I'm very open with him, like, to the point where, like, we probably, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't have found, found help earlier. But I've always asked him, like, if there's anything I can do to make you happy, you know, because sometimes he doesn't seem very happy with me, and I just don't understand why. And I really, I listen to you all the time, so I know what you say about, like, you know, if he does something, just close your mouth, be grateful that he did it. And I am 110% that way. Like, he kept the kids on my birthday so that they could get a cake for me, and the house was blown up, like, everything, but I was just glad for the intentions that he did, you know, the small intentions, and he did them, even though, behind the

• 10:34Speaker 00

  scenes, I'm like, oh, my God. But it's okay. So I really, and I am self-aware, I want people to tell me what I can't see about myself. And I, I hope to get that as well. So.

• 10:46Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. It, it's, it's you and him walking in together, saying, we live in this house, but together, we want to build that house. And that just has some cooler, I don't know, castle vibes to it, or like, it's got floating shelves, and it's got a different kind of tile, and we just don't have the skills to do that yet. And that's why we're gonna go do this. Not to

• 11:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:12Dr. John Delony?

  sit in the same house y'all went into the therapy office with, and just complain about who did what wrong. You get what I'm saying?

• 11:21Speaker 00

  Kind of just clear the deck and just start building what we want to be able to fix.

• 11:26Dr. John Delony?

  That's exactly right.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  Not fix, but what we want to build, like you said, yeah.

• 11:29Dr. John Delony?

  And it may be that you find out, you really want to want to get feedback.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  I do want feedback. I want any kind of feedback, positive or negative, you know?

• 11:41Dr. John Delony?

  And so maybe ask him in front of the therapist, what are some ways I can love you when things are hard, when things are tense, when things are uncomfortable? And I would love to give you a roadmap on how I like to hear feedback, because I want to, I want this to be a place where you exhale and drop your shoulders. I want this to be a place where you're happy to be home.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Right, yeah.

• 12:04Dr. John Delony?

  I want this to be a place where I'm happy to be home. What must be true for that?

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Right, yeah. And for our kids, and not perpetuating what we've been doing, you know, for the past six years, that we create that, that positive environment for them. But I, I've just, my last fear is just that, and I've just seen it before, it's like, when I tried to open the doors for him to tell me, it's like, out of a whole month, there's like, four days in that whole month, but I feel like I can get a real person-to-person, like, conversation where I hear his feedback. And then the rest of it, it's just, he's just like, I don't know, it's fine, I'm happy with whatever, you know, and it's, there's no depth, this thinking, and

• 12:50Dr. John Delony?

  But it sounds like you're looking at your marriage as though you're watching film tape of it.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:56Dr. John Delony?

  Like, it's an old football game or volleyball match, and y'all are watching tape, like, for the upcoming opponent.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:03Dr. John Delony?

  What if y'all were just friends?

• 13:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:06Dr. John Delony?

  What if y'all danced in the living room? What if you threw a wet towel at him when he walked in the door? What if you flashed him when he was least expecting it? What if he just cleaned up on his way into the house? You get what I'm saying? Like, what if y'all were just silly, laughy friends?

• 13:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:26Dr. John Delony?

  And then it makes the, hey, we need to have a big conversation. Those things are much rarer. I'm thinking of like, my 20, 30, 40-year friendships that I have, big, dramatic, like, hey, we need to talk. That doesn't happen super often.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  Right, no, yeah.

• 13:42Dr. John Delony?

  Because we've done hard things together, and we spend time laughing, checking in on each other, how are you? Hey, man, do y'all need anything? How's your family? How's your wife? How's your kids? Like, it's just a, you get what I'm saying?

• 13:53Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 13:54Dr. John Delony?

  But if it's like, hey, how am I doing? What's the, what's the point system here? What's my score? What needs improvement? Then it's just, like, home becomes a workplace, yet another place to sing and dance and perform.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Right, yeah.

• 14:07Dr. John Delony?

  And you're each taking turns being Simon Cowell, right?

• 14:11Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:11Dr. John Delony?

  Instead of just being this place where I can drop my shoulders and just be.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, be ourselves.

• 14:19Dr. John Delony?

  You get, you get my, you get what I'm saying?

• 14:22Speaker 00

  I do, yes, I do understand.

• 14:24Dr. John Delony?

  And let me tell you, um, here's how this has played out in my house, and it played out differently than I ever could have imagined. My wife likes to go to bed really early, and as I've dug into that, she would do anything to be able to stay up till midnight with me, and just go out to the, to the comedy club, go out to a punk rock show, and to go watch the late movie or whatever. She would, she, I mean, I, she's been in tears about it before. I would love that.

• 14:52Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:52Dr. John Delony?

  But if I don't get, she says, if I don't get sleep the next day, I, like, my body is an off switch, and I've fought it, I've tried. And so, and vice versa, I would love to be able to just go to bed at 8:30 or 9:00 with her. I would love that. And as soon as I lay down, it's like, hey, let's go do something crazy, right? And so, here's what we've had to do. We've had to both realize we like each other, and in this particular thing, I like this, and she likes that. Or I want this, and she needs that. And so, we've both had to grieve the fact that it isn't perfect.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:36Dr. John Delony?

  And then, we realize our friendship is way bigger than that. And she's like, man, I'm glad you have a thing to go do at late at night. And I'm like, dude, I'm glad that you can just put your head on your pillow and go to sleep at 8:30 or 9:00. That's so awesome. And I'm, I'm sad that I wish you were with me, but, man, I'm happy for you.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, you have an understanding.

• 15:57Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And so, so liking all the same things, um, doing all the same things, that's impossible for most couples. But can we still support each other and love each other and navigate those differences? Because we're friends, we just like each other.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, right.

• 16:14Dr. John Delony?

  And then when things come up, things come up. And a therapist is gonna help you with skills.

• 16:19Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:21Dr. John Delony?

  How can you catch each other and say, hey, can I say that over again? Or if somebody says something that hurts, they can respond back. Um, could you try that one again? Could you say that in a different way? To where that's a signal for you, like, oh, I came across really mean. Okay. Right? And a therapist can help you practice those things.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  Okay. That gives me hope, because I think that that's a big part of it, is just skills, learning how to get out of the old ways and, and go into a more healthy, correct way that we can, that'll carry us forward.

• 16:54Dr. John Delony?

  And absolutely, if you have some skills you need to work on, if you can't get through to your spouse, marriage therapy can be an amazing thing. Um, but if it's just to fix your spouse, or if it's just because I need someone to hear what he's doing or she's doing to me, it's doomed to fail. And if you get a therapist that won't, doesn't have the courage to take one of you on, um, if you have a therapist that just says, well, how's that make you feel? And how's that make you feel? And doesn't give you homework assignments to practice together, and doesn't hold you accountable to those homework assignments, then yeah, you're just in there stirring a pot over and over and over again, and the data bears that out. But if y'all both go in saying, hey, we want to build this awesome

• 17:38Dr. John Delony?

  thing, and we just don't have the skills yet, great. We have some stuff we gotta work through, some hurts from the past, um, and he has to figure out how to say sorry, and you have to figure out how to say sorry, whatever. Man, marriage therapy can really change your marriage in a positive, wonderful way. Actually, y'all will do the work to change your marriage. We come back, a woman asks how to separate her feelings of rejection from her husband's erectile dysfunction. We'll be right back.

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• 18:48Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:32Dr. John Delony?

  That's MKC.com.

• 19:36Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back. Hey, take two seconds and hit the subscribe button. Share the episode, do all the things. Thank you so much for being in our gang. Let's go to Morgantown, West Virginia and talk to Rebecca. Hey Rebecca, what's up?

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Hi, how are you?

• 19:51Dr. John Delony?

  Good, how are you?

• 19:52Speaker 03

  I'm good, I'm hanging in there.

• 19:54Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent, so what's up?

• 19:57Speaker 03

  So, I've been married for about four years now. I'm struggling with something that feels embarrassing to admit. It's probably more embarrassing for my husband and me just seeking advice almost feels like I'm betraying him on some level. But he has erectile dysfunction. I knew that when we got married. But over time, it's started to affect me in more ways than I have expected. We often have to plan our intimacy around medication, timing, and circumstances, which is becoming stressful. Sometimes, everything is lined up and it still doesn't work out. I'm beginning to associate his inability to get an erection with rejection, even though

• 20:41Speaker 03

  I know intellectually that's not fair. I love my husband and I'm finding myself losing attraction, building resentment, and avoiding intimacy altogether. How do I separate my medical, separate a medical issue from my feelings of rejection and rebuilding passion in our marriage?

• 21:02Dr. John Delony?

  Thanks for having the courage to call on that. That's a big deal.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:08Dr. John Delony?

  And yeah, you're right. I know he hates it too.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:14Dr. John Delony?

  And it carries a lot of additional shame and secrecy and all that for men. I get that. But we don't talk about the partner side of that. And so, thank you for calling.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like I live a secret too.

• 21:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 21:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's, I've heard from women in your situation that the, "My husband won't keep his hands off me." And it's like that quiet, "I wish my husband would put his hands off." Right? It's like that. You start, your world gets very, very small because your secret becomes his secret, so we're just not gonna say anything for anybody.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 21:53Dr. John Delony?

  And that's tough, tough, tough.

• 21:59Dr. John Delony?

  See where I can start here. I don't, I think it's not a good use of time to try to separate feelings here.

• 22:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? So, feeling sad that you don't have a spontaneous reckless sex life right now is right and good. That doesn't make you broke and that doesn't make you a bad wife.

• 22:24Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 22:25Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 22:27Dr. John Delony?

  It's just grief. It, I, grief is the gap between what you wanted and what is reality.

• 22:34Dr. John Delony?

  And this is a big gap, right?

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 22:36Dr. John Delony?

  And so, it's right to grieve it. Like you had this picture of what marriage was gonna be like and there's, you're gonna have to be swatting away this guy all the time because he couldn't keep his hands off you. And now you're like, well, maybe next week at this time, if I get home in time to take my medication and then maybe if, right? This isn't how you drew it up. That's not how you dreamt about it. And so, it's right to grieve it. It doesn't make you a bad person.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  Right. And then, I feel like when he does take his medication, like I have to pull through, you know?

• 23:09Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Well, you know, earlier in the day, things are going great. You know, we send flirty text messages. And then, by the time the kids get to bed and it's 9:30, 10 o'clock at night, I'm no longer wanting to be intimate. But he's already taken his medication by that time. And, you know, there is times where he's been angry because we didn't end up being intimate. And, you know, he doesn't really like the way that the medication makes him feel if he doesn't ejaculate. So, it ends up being like, I have to pull through if he ends up taking his medication.

• 23:56Dr. John Delony?

  You definitely need to have that hard conversation.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 24:04Dr. John Delony?

  Because in the same way that y'all have plans and y'all, something sounds like a good idea at 2:00 in the afternoon and the reality of 5:00 PM through 9:00 PM hits with young kids, or with anything, with work, with whatever, part of him is, he has permission to be sad, like, "Oh, man, I thought tonight was gonna be the night." And also, life happened.

• 24:28Dr. John Delony?

  But you feeling forced to have sex when it's uncomfortable, when you're, it's painful, when you're just completely zonged out, um, man, that's abusive. I mean, that gets real dangerous real fast.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think there's like disappointment on both ends.

• 24:45Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 24:46Speaker 03

  You know?

• 24:46Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  Like disappointment, like, you know, he was prepared and now I'm not. And then, on the other end as well, like, I want to and, you know, it's just not working out on his end.

• 25:01Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. What I've often heard from, from, let me just say it this way. A medical issue is a medical issue, whether it's erectile dysfunction, whether it's cancer, whether it is respiratory infection, like, it's just, people get sick, right? Whether it's vaginismus, whether it is extended postpartum, like, medical issues are medical issues are medical issues, right?

• 25:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 25:23Dr. John Delony?

  And there's something about basic human decency and kindness and walking alongside your spouse and not, and I'm saying this to men and women, not just, this isn't to you. And not pouting and being sad and whatever. And then there's creativity. Is there things we can do in this, like, in the gap, right? And that may not be this, but is there creativity, play, fun? Like, okay, this is a given. Is there a world we can create, given this reality here, that we can do something else? We can do a million other things, right? And then, there is a, um, I'm trying to think of a word that's not grief, but it might be grief. Or it might be a challenge. Maybe it's the word's challenge I'm looking for.

• 26:10Dr. John Delony?

  Has he given up trying, exhausting every resource to get to the bottom of his medical challenges?

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Um, no.

• 26:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  I don't think he's willing to.

• 26:27Dr. John Delony?

  Let me stop right there. That's where, 95%, that's anecdotal, I made that number up, but that's where most spouses on either side of this equation, men or women, it's less, I'm less frustrated that there's a medical issue because that happens. I'm more frustrated that my spouse isn't going to the ends of the earth to A, feel better themselves, and B, let us do this amazing thing together. Share sex and intimacy and fun and play and the erotic, all those things, because they're like, "Man, I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna talk to that doctor.

• 27:09Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not gonna go to that particular therapy or go to the intervention." And that's where most people I see and hear get really, like, resentful.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's just a sore subject, so I don't push that much.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  It's almost like avoidance for him.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  He has sexual trauma in his past and drug use in his past. And he always tells me that, like, he's worked through it with so many therapists and so many different reaps over the years that he's like, "What are they gonna do? Just, they're gonna prescribe me the medication that I'm taking." So...

• 27:56Dr. John Delony?

  That's not, that's not true at all. That's not true at all.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And again, it's one of those like...

• 28:06Dr. John Delony?

  Most, most folks say, "I love my spouse. I would do anything for them." But as Meatloaf sang one time, "But I won't do that."

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:14Dr. John Delony?

  And, "I'll, I'll protect you. I'll fight for you. I'm not gonna go talk to a doctor." No way.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:22Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so, and, and by the way, again, to go back to it, I, I don't mean to be dismissive of you, cuz I'm not in any way. You're living a really rough, messy situation.

• 28:36Dr. John Delony?

  But I want him to have peace.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:39Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And if he still has unresolved trauma, if his erectile dysfunction is psychosomatic, i- if it's psychological in origin, my goodness, man.

• 28:53Dr. John Delony?

  I want that guy to have healing.

• 28:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:55Dr. John Delony?

  And if it's, um, if it is physiological, right?

• 29:02Dr. John Delony?

  And low dose enclomiphine can kick his testosterone back. I mean, there's so many things. If it's weight loss, and he's gonna lose weight, like, there's so many opportunities now in the current modern era to just not stop fighting for yourself so that you can fight for your marriage. You get what I'm saying?

• 29:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:20Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I, I wonder if,

• 29:24Dr. John Delony?

  erectile dysfunction has a, is, again, I, I use this word a lot on the show, these words a lot, but is a proxy war for,

• 29:34Dr. John Delony?

  I feel like you've given up on yourself?

• 29:38Dr. John Delony?

  Or the story I'm making up is, you're just kinda done trying to keep healing?

• 29:45Dr. John Delony?

  And that makes me feel sad for you. It makes me feel sad for me, that we're just throwing our hands up and we're saying the most dreaded sentence in the English language, "This is just the way this is gonna be."

• 29:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:56Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 29:58Speaker 03

  Which is what I fear.

• 30:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  Because it's not,

• 30:04Speaker 03

  I mean, there's nothing that makes me feel like

• 30:08Speaker 03

  desired.

• 30:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  Um, cuz even like, I feel like sometimes he doesn't wanna try

• 30:20Speaker 03

  because he has that in the back of his mind, like, what if it doesn't work?

• 30:23Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  You know? And then...

• 30:27Dr. John Delony?

  But there, there's a, there's a shame-based response to that. There's a playful response to that. There is a, meaning like, "Yeah dude, let's get going. If it doesn't work, well, we've got 50 other things to do."

• 30:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:40Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And that's you responding with a smile on your face, not slump shoulders.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:47Dr. John Delony?

  But it, it's y'all two going on an adventure together, as much as, "Let's try it out." Cuz then it becomes a performance. Is it gonna work? Is it gonna work? Is it gonna work? Right?

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:57Dr. John Delony?

  And that's just a lot of pressure on, on both of you.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:01Dr. John Delony?

  But my, my, here's my bigger concern. It sounds like you have a relationship where you can't say something, or you can't be, you can't express something, you can't be open about things, because you also have to play protector of his precious little feelings.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  That's accurate.

• 31:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. We need to get to the bottom of that.

• 31:22Dr. John Delony?

  And the path forward, I've given this, this, this playbook, this framework a lot, but

• 31:31Dr. John Delony?

  I need to have a big, hard conversation with you. The second part of that is, the story I'm making up is, you've just kinda given up on yourself, on us.

• 31:42Dr. John Delony?

  The story I'm making up is, "I can't, I can't talk to you about some of the things that are on my heart and spirit because you just shut down." And that makes me feel alone. That makes me feel like I'm keeping secrets. That makes me feel all by myself. And that scares me to death.

• 32:00Dr. John Delony?

  And here's what I would love to be able to do. That's the last part.

• 32:05Dr. John Delony?

  I would love for you to go see a doctor, cuz I want a husband that won't stop fighting for himself and won't stop fighting for us. And I want a husband that feels good in his own skin.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  I just don't want that to turn around, like, he's doing it

• 32:24Speaker 03

  for me, and like, he doesn't really wanna do it.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  It's like a chore for him, you know?

• 32:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. If sex becomes a chore, like, "I don't want to be doing this, but I have to do this to keep the peace in my home," that's a big problem.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:44Dr. John Delony?

  But I went and saw, I got in my car and drove hours away from my house as a paranoid, over-anxious, OCD-ed-out mess because my wife said, "You're not okay."

• 32:58Dr. John Delony?

  Because my buddy Todd said, "Dude, you gotta go see somebody."

• 33:04Dr. John Delony?

  I did not go the first time for me.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:10Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm grateful that I had two people that loved me enough that said, "If you don't do it for yourself, do it for me."

• 33:16Dr. John Delony?

  And that got me in the door.

• 33:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:19Dr. John Delony?

  That knocked the first domino down. Eventually, he's gonna have to look in the mirror, right? And say, "I'm worth more than, I'm, I'm worth feeling, feeling better. I'm worth being alive in my own skin. I'm worth a wild fun sex life with my wife. I'm, I'm worth all these other things."

• 33:34Dr. John Delony?

  But man, if a spouse says, "Hey, I need you to go to the doctor because I miss you."

• 33:43Dr. John Delony?

  "I don't wanna give up, I don't want you to give up on yourself. I don't wanna give up on us."

• 33:49Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 33:52Dr. John Delony?

  And it sounds like y'all are missing like a healthy dose of just being friends.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. I feel like the season that we're in is just so busy and chaotic that

• 34:08Speaker 03

  it's almost like the only time we connect is being intimate at night. I mean, we have three kids.

• 34:13Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  And full-time jobs. Um, we're in the process of moving, so add another thing on the schedule, and it just...

• 34:24Dr. John Delony?

  It's a lot.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Like, it's a lot, yeah.

• 34:28Dr. John Delony?

  Are there, are there little things y'all can do to come together? Like making him a cup of coffee in the morning?

• 34:35Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure.

• 34:36Dr. John Delony?

  Like him walking in the door with no phone out, just hugging you for, for 30 seconds?

• 34:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, we do hug a lot.

• 34:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  Um, I probably could be better at putting my phone away.

• 34:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Um...

• 34:49Dr. John Delony?

  If you looked at him and said, "Hey, I'm putting this stupid phone away, and from now on, you're gonna be my first party cuz you're my, you're my best friend."

• 34:56Speaker 03

  That would probably mean the world to him.

• 34:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. There's this weird thing about somebody going first. And erectile dysfunction, "Am I worth it over here?" looks like the big neon sign, but often that path to healing some of the big things that are going on, the big gaps, the things we're grieving in our lives, starts with tiny little steps way on the other side of the planet.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:21Dr. John Delony?

  Right? The smacking him on the butt when you walk by.

• 35:28Dr. John Delony?

  The just gentle hand on the back of his neck when you see he's just kinda tensed up about something.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I definitely could be more intentional when it comes to things like that.

• 35:39Dr. John Delony?

  "I'm gonna send you the Together app for free for a year." And it has, you can do it by yourself, or it's got two-player mode in it for you and your spouse. Okay? I'm gonna send it to you for free, just my gift. But it's just a daily intentional activity to come back together. Slowly but surely. Okay?

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Awesome. Thank you so much.

• 35:58Dr. John Delony?

  And, man, please use it for 60 days, 90 days, and just commit that every day, whatever the thing pops up, I'm gonna do my best to make that thing happen. And if y'all get together once a week and just say, "All right, we're in a chaotic season. What must be true this week? Moving schedules, work schedules, we got three young kids.

• 36:19Dr. John Delony?

  We're gonna put ourselves first. What does that look like on a weekly rundown?" And it's got a, it's got an outline for that in the app too, just a map for how to do that well also.

• 36:28Dr. John Delony?

  But thanks for the call. I, erectile dysfunction's a big deal, and it's got cascading issues in it. Shame, frustration, planning, organization, too much structure, not enough play and fun. And it ends up feeling like the, the thousand-pound elephant in the room. But man, you talk about it, you plan for it, you get creative with it, you don't give up trying to solve the problem.

• 36:55Dr. John Delony?

  And man, I get if he's got a traumatic background, he's been enough therapists and enough doctors, that's gotta be frustrating for him to get up. It's gotta be heartbreaking to get up and go, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna go again. I'm gonna go again." And I just always throw medication in it. Sometimes medication's amazing, and sometimes I'm just, I, I wanna get to the root of these things. It's tough. But man...

• 37:19Dr. John Delony?

  Things that we don't talk about get bigger and bigger and bigger until they explode.

• 37:25Dr. John Delony?

  So let's don't keep secrets anymore in our marriage.

• 37:29Dr. John Delony?

  Thanks for the call, sister.

• 37:31Dr. John Delony?

  When we come back, a woman asks how to manage her parental anxiety from years of working in emergency medicine. We'll be right back.

• 37:40Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer's a time when people escape. Whether it's relaxing, going on vacation, we've all been sold this lie that if we could just get away from it all, everything will magically work itself out when we return. Here's the thing, a vacation won't fix what you won't face. If you're anxious, burned out, or struggling, these problems will be waiting for you when you get home. And this is why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that fits into your life. You can talk with a licensed therapist by phone, video, or messaging from anywhere. No commuting, no sitting in a waiting room, just a safe place to process what's actually going on in your life. And all of BetterHelp's therapists follow a strict code of conduct.

• 38:24Dr. John Delony?

  You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the app. If it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime for no extra cost. This summer, don't ignore what's coming to the surface. Sometimes the strongest thing you can do is stop running from it and start dealing with it. Go to betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash deloney. All right, Atlanta, Georgia. Let's talk to Nicole. Hey Nicole, what's up?

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Hi, Dr. John, how are you doing?

• 38:54Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing all right. How about you?

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Great, thank you so much for taking my call.

• 38:58Dr. John Delony?

  You betcha.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  So I'm just gonna jump right in, as you say, I guess.

• 39:04Dr. John Delony?

  Cannonball, yeah.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Cannonball. So I'm a mom of three. I've worked in emergency services since I was 18, so that's

• 39:12Dr. John Delony?

  Wow, what do you do?

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Well, I've worked as a paramedic, I've worked as an ER nurse, and currently I'm working as a flight nurse/paramedic.

• 39:20Dr. John Delony?

  Whoo, nice. How old are you?

• 39:24Speaker 03

  I'm 41.

• 39:25Dr. John Delony?

  41, you've been doing this almost half your life.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  I know it.

• 39:29Dr. John Delony?

  Wow, amazing, yeah. Now, wait a minute, you've been doing it for more than half your life?

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:36Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, good math skills. Way to go, John. All right, man, so you're in it, okay?

• 39:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, completely in it. So, all that time, and I've seen a lot of tragedy in worst-case scenarios. And I feel like years of seeing that kind of stuff has somewhat kind of trained my brain to expect bad things.

• 39:57Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  So, I wouldn't say necessarily with my life or myself, but when my kids go to do normal kid things, my mind just immediately jumps to catastrophe. Like, I don't want my fears to be my children's limitations, and I don't want to be controlling or anxious. So I'm just wondering, like, how do I make peace or honor what I've seen and stay appropriately cautious without letting those experiences convince me that disasters always are on the corner?

• 40:31Dr. John Delony?

  That's a great question.

• 40:34Dr. John Delony?

  Let me start off by saying you're not crazy, and you're not broken in any way.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:40Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. You have a

• 40:45Dr. John Delony?

  a seat at the table that most people will never experience until it's them or somebody they love.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:55Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 40:57Dr. John Delony?

  And

• 40:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess.

• 40:58Dr. John Delony?

  You've seen the wildest of wild things, right?

• 41:03Dr. John Delony?

  And so, the, there's a couple of things I want to talk to you about for you, okay? And then we'll get to what to do with your kids, is that cool?

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:14Dr. John Delony?

  Thing number one is, you owe it to yourself first to have some sort of wellness protocol that you follow pretty religiously.

• 41:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 41:30Dr. John Delony?

  You have to, and this is, I tell this to every first responder group I talk to, every organization I talk to, every individual I talk to.

• 41:41Dr. John Delony?

  You can't go give what you don't have.

• 41:47Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what that meant for me when I was running around with paramedics and emergency room nurses and police officers and things. I had to have an exercise program, I had to have a counselor, and I had a practice of, for lack of better terms, my own private funeral for people that I was with that died.

• 42:10Dr. John Delony?

  It allowed my body to put a period at the end of the sentence for them.

• 42:15Dr. John Delony?

  And it wasn't this open loop that became 500 open loops, that became endless amounts of open loops. And you've been through infinitely more than I have over your 20-plus years of doing this.

• 42:31Dr. John Delony?

  And so that means when your, when your lifelight doesn't make it, that you carve out 10 or 15 minutes and write that person a card that you're never gonna send, write that family a card that you, maybe you will send, that you pray for that person if you're a person of faith, that you say their name out loud,

• 42:57Dr. John Delony?

  and you exhale.

• 43:00Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 43:02Speaker 03

  Yes, completely.

• 43:05Dr. John Delony?

  You still with me?

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Yes. So I feel like I do have, like, I exercise, I feel like I have a good routine support system. I have been in therapy the last two years, however, I have been in for other reasons. I have not ever discussed work.

• 43:25Dr. John Delony?

  Let me say this, it doesn't have to be a therapist, you just need people that you can talk to that aren't necessarily other first responders.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  Okay, my husband's also a first responder.

• 43:37Dr. John Delony?

  There you go, so, so, yes. And so you've got, you've got, this isn't a bad thing, this is a natural thing, you've got tension trying to make peace with tension at differing levels at different times.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 43:53Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:55Dr. John Delony?

  And so it's just a matter of, like, having somebody that's not in your home that you can exhale with, or you and your spouse, you and your husband saying, all right, we got 10 minutes, hit the timer, go. Craziest thing you saw today.

• 44:09Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, I got all dramatic. You may need somebody you can just say, like, dude, you know what I saw today? And y'all end up laughing so hard your guts hurt.

• 44:20Dr. John Delony?

  And I know, I know you, emergency room nurses, y'all get dark, man. Y'all get real dark.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I want to say, like, that's kind of just normal, like, I'm totally used to that kind of thing.

• 44:29Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I know.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  Even sometimes already at work, you know? Too soon.

• 44:36Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, no, no, yes, that's, it's a protective measure, and it's very, very important. It's one of the greatest releases ever. Some of my hardest times I've ever laughed, I can't talk about them on this show because people think I was psychotic. Right?

• 44:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have things that come to mind right now.

• 44:54Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I know. All right, so here's the thing, when it comes to your kids, I want you to keep a small, like, in your purse, in your backpack, whatever you carry around with you, I want you to keep a small little notebook, that's it. Call it a journal, call it a diary, call it your notebook, call it your, you can even, I wouldn't use your notes app on your phone, there's something about writing it down, I think is powerful.

• 45:16Dr. John Delony?

  But any worry that pops up with your kid, I want you to get it out of your body and write it down.

• 45:22Speaker 03

  All right.

• 45:23Dr. John Delony?

  Is this real?

• 45:26Dr. John Delony?

  So let me tell you something about, so for most of my career, I worked with sexual assault victims and doing sexual assault investigations of some shape, form, or fashion, okay?

• 45:40Dr. John Delony?

  Now I've got a 10-year-old daughter.

• 45:43Dr. John Delony?

  And I got a 16-year-old son.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:47Dr. John Delony?

  My heart, it goes, it, things in my, it's not even a thought I'm having, my body reacts, right? And it's a strange, strange, almost comical if it wasn't scary, hypervigilance.

• 46:04Dr. John Delony?

  Like, if I see one person just double-take at my daughter in a gas station, right? Or I think they do.

• 46:12Dr. John Delony?

  I can't describe, I don't have to describe it to you, you know, a switch flips that I don't, oh, I don't know who even switched that, like, flipped that switch, and I don't even know where that switch was. You know what I'm saying?

• 46:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:24Dr. John Delony?

  And it's just this strange hypervigilance, or for you, hey, we're doing a pool party, and you instantly think of 15 kids you've pulled out of pools before.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  It's just like a feeling that I can feel rising.

• 46:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 03

  And it's, it doesn't really take over, but it's very apparent that it's there.

• 46:46Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  So like

• 46:47Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you write that down, kids want to go to a pool party, are they gonna be safe?

• 46:53Dr. John Delony?

  And all we're trying to do is get our body's feelings, which are right and good, your body's right to sound every alarm you got because you've seen those kids and you've had those conversations with their moms.

• 47:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 47:07Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 47:07Dr. John Delony?

  And so, your body's right to sound the alarms, that's not safe. And in reality, usually it is.

• 47:19Dr. John Delony?

  And you might have different rules in other parents. My dad, as a homicide detective who was in and out of ERs his whole career, he had two big rules for me growing up, zero skateboards and zero motorcycles, period. All of my friends were super skaters when Tony Hawk was coming out, they all had half-pipes and all this crazy cool ramps and stuff, no skateboards. Because every time my dad was in the ER, it was some kid who'd broke his neck on a skateboard, or broke his arm, or died in a motorcycle wreck. And so, for me and my house, that was just one of the rules, man.

• 47:51Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean? Like, so it's okay to have, you're gonna have different standards, different rules because of what you've seen and experienced, and that's all good.

• 48:00Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm not just gonna willy nilly be like, oh man, my body's having this response about my 10 year old daughter, my 16 year old son, I'm just gonna ignore it. No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have some extra vigilance, you're right. My friends, my kid's parents' friends know, I'll call them just to make sure. And I'll tell them, hey, I'm overzealous, I'm kinda weird about this, I don't care. Are these safety protocols in place? And I have zero times, zero times have I met a parent who's been ugly or rude or anything other than thanks for calling.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:30Dr. John Delony?

  Alright, so if your kid's going to a pool party, give yourself a checklist. Are there gonna be adults there? Is it gonna be safe there? How many kids are gonna be there? Um, and run, like, do the things that you know to minimize that risk.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 48:48Dr. John Delony?

  And don't be afraid to say no to things.

• 48:52Dr. John Delony?

  Your kids will not, um, let me say this, they won't try to solve your anxiousness or your fear if it's out of your body and it's objective. Here's what I mean by that. If your kids say, hey mom, we all wanna go to a pool party.

• 49:07Dr. John Delony?

  And you go, ask your dad, or, I don't, just, I'll think about it. And then you start slamming the cabinets a little bit harder, or you shut down, or you just pop on the couch and turn a TV on, or you grab your phone and start scrolling. It's not what they ask that your kid's gonna try to solve, it's that I did a thing that made mom that way.

• 49:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:33Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense? And that's what they're gonna try to solve. I need mommy to be okay.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  So, when they ask, you know, like, they obviously know what I do, I mean, they're 11, 7, and 3, so the older one knows what I do for work, so I don't talk about calls that I run in front of him, um, or any of my kids, but

• 49:56Speaker 03

  when he asks, what is like an appropriate response, like, I don't, I don't wanna make them fearful of things, but I also want them to be aware that there are dangers and

• 50:07Dr. John Delony?

  A line my wife and I have used, a line my wife and I have used since the day both of my kids were born is, my, my number one job is to keep you safe.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 50:15Dr. John Delony?

  That's the, that's the line I use all the time.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  I do say that. Actually, I said it to him last week and he said, wow, mom, you've got two jobs that you have to keep people safe. That's a lot.

• 50:24Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, and you're my number one job.

• 50:28Dr. John Delony?

  That's it.

• 50:31Dr. John Delony?

  And so, like, baking that into just the, the vernacular in your home, it's gonna help you when they want social media at 13, and you're like, no dude, my one job is to keep you safe. Your body and your mind.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:44Dr. John Delony?

  Right, so it'll help you with all of these different conversations, but yeah, your kid knows. And there'll be some times, you let me go to the pool party last time, yeah, there was some safety measures there that aren't gonna be at this one, and that's okay.

• 50:59Dr. John Delony?

  And one of the things I do differently than my parents is, when I say no to things, if possible, I try to fill that gap a little bit.

• 51:10Dr. John Delony?

  Meaning, yeah, I know you guys wanted to go to that pool party, that stinks, and I know you're sad and frustrated, I'll sit here with you. And you guys wanna, I'll take y'all to the pool, you wanna go to the pool with me?

• 51:24Dr. John Delony?

  Alright, and that means I gotta get up and put my stupid phone away, put on my swim trunk, like, I gotta go do the thing, right?

• 51:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:31Dr. John Delony?

  And it doesn't always work out, sometimes that's impossible, but rarely does me getting out and getting some sun and messing around with my kids, do I come back in a worse mood, right?

• 51:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, very true.

• 51:42Dr. John Delony?

  But I think it's, it's just being honest about the fears, writing them down, getting them out of your body. It's an old TBT trick for quite, for quite a lot, it's, it's just cognitive behavioral therapy trick, just, is this, is this feeling true?

• 51:57Dr. John Delony?

  And if it is, make no apologies. Your kids are 11, they don't get a vote.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:02Dr. John Delony?

  But also sit with them, cuz their sadness is real. All their friends are going to a thing that they're not gonna be able to go to. All their friends are getting skateboards and they're not gonna get one. All their friends are getting bird scooters or whatever, and they're not gonna get one. I'll sit with you, that's a bummer.

• 52:18Dr. John Delony?

  But my one job is to keep you safe.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like that.

• 52:26Dr. John Delony?

  But you're not crazy, you're a good mom. Give me a couple of ideas of things you're scared of, I mean, not scared of, that's uninformatic, that, that get your heart going when your kids ask about it.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Um, so, we live, um, kind of in the country, and so, it's not uncommon for my kids to go out of home play without me right there. Um, there's no, we have neighbors, but they're not close, so, um, sometimes my three year old will go, she'll, she plays on the back porch often, and I'll look out there and she won't be on the porch. And, um, immediately, like, immediately, I don't even have time to, like, look for her before I start thinking, oh my god, she's fallen in the neighbor's pond. Or, um, like, we have a golf cart, my son, my husband was driving it, like, last week I was

• 53:22Speaker 03

  cutting grass, and I see them from across the field, and my son's sitting on the edge of it while they're driving. And I immediately, like, just pictured him falling off and getting sucked underneath it. So I, like, chased him down to me, like, he can't sit on the edge. Or, um, I mean, water stuff, I, like, I'm always making more life jackets in the lake and in the ocean, if they're in the ocean, like, big waves or anything like that. Um, water's not as bad, it's just like, um...

• 53:54Dr. John Delony?

  So, let's take those two things.

• 53:57Dr. John Delony?

  You're, the price you pay for loving and taking care of your community, the way you do,

• 54:05Dr. John Delony?

  is, your default setting is always gonna be a little bit unspooled from a regular person's.

• 54:13Dr. John Delony?

  And that's okay, you're not crazy. If your first default thought, you can't help your first thought, and you can't help your first feeling.

• 54:23Dr. John Delony?

  It is, what am I gonna do next?

• 54:27Dr. John Delony?

  And it sounds like your husband, this isn't always true, but it sounds like there's, it, it tends to barbell first responders. It either makes you super cautious in your regular life, or it makes you super reckless in your regular life.

• 54:43Dr. John Delony?

  Like, pile on, let's go, like, we're all gonna die someday, let's just get, go right, you see what I'm saying?

• 54:48Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm on a reckless spectrum with my personal self. Like, I like to do wild, crazy things, and I don't have those fears, even though I've seen, like, crazy things happen, and, uh...

• 54:59Dr. John Delony?

  No, it's with your kids.

• 54:59Speaker 03

  With my kids, it's completely different.

• 55:01Dr. John Delony?

  Don't ever apologize for chasing down your husband and telling your kid to sit down. That's just, that's just good, normal parenting.

• 55:09Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Now, you have a visual that most parents won't have, they have a thought about it, you've seen that.

• 55:17Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 55:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:19Dr. John Delony?

  But I would expect my, she's done it, when I'm being reckless with my kids.

• 55:25Dr. John Delony?

  My wife will come out many a time and be like, hey, stop, and I'm like, you're right.

• 55:31Dr. John Delony?

  Or I'll go, boo, fun ruiner, boo, and then I'll be like, she's right, guys, right? It turns into a funny thing, but, um, yeah, if your three year old disappears off the porch, you, pause this or fast forward this if, um,

• 55:51Dr. John Delony?

  just as a warning, um, you've probably given CPR to children.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 56:00Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 56:02Dr. John Delony?

  And you've seen that ashen look when a kid gets pulled out of a lake or a river.

• 56:10Dr. John Delony?

  That's not a TV thing for you. You've been in the room when that happens, that's a very different experience. So you're not crazy if your neighbors have a big pond and your three year old disappears off the porch.

• 56:24Dr. John Delony?

  And the thing to do next is, you can exhale. Take one humongous deep breath and hold it as you're walking out the door.

• 56:37Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 56:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:39Dr. John Delony?

  It's catching that gap from, oh, I've got a lived experience. I've got multiple lived experiences here. And these are very real, very powerful. And if I run out on the back porch screaming bloody murder, my daughter's gonna try to solve that. She's gonna, she's gonna wear that. If I exhale and do the best job I can, and it just takes practice of walking out and saying, sweetheart, where are you?

• 57:02Dr. John Delony?

  Stay on the porch, hon.

• 57:05Dr. John Delony?

  Then you begin to practice that emotional regulation that comes on the back of a big, huge feeling like that. It just takes practice, it's a skill set.

• 57:15Dr. John Delony?

  But you're doing a great job. You're doing a great, great job. Kids are lucky to have you and your husband. And thank you for loving and serving your communities in the way you do. And yes, your little one was right. You've got two big jobs. Keeping people safe. And we're glad you're doing it. We'll be right back.

• 57:34Dr. John Delony?

  All right, when it comes to supplements, there's one company that I trust. Thorne. I was first introduced to Thorne by professional athletes over a decade ago. And they continue to be the main supplements I trust for me and my family. Supplements are an unregulated industry. What does that mean? It means that most supplements are flooded with garbage and nonsense. Most companies cut corners. They lie on their labels, but not Thorne. Thorne makes every product at their world-class facility in South Carolina. Thirty-five percent of Thorne's employees work in quality control, and they reject 15% of their raw materials because good is not good enough for Thorne. It's why pro athletes, Olympic teams, and more than 60,000 doctors trust Thorne. And that's why I trust them too.

• 58:19Dr. John Delony?

  Stop guessing what's going into your body and into your family's body. Go to thorne.com/theletteru/deloney to get 25% off your order when you create an account. That's T-H-O-R-N-E, thorne.com/theletteru/deloney.

• 58:38Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Kelly, something cool happened. What is it?

• 58:40Speaker 04

  So this is from Savannah in Chattanooga, and she writes...

• 58:44Dr. John Delony?

  That's a very Chattanooga name.

• 58:45Speaker 04

  Savannah.

• 58:46Dr. John Delony?

  I'm Savannah. I was born in Georgia, and I moved to Chattanooga. We're going to the city.

• 58:54Speaker 04

  You done?

• 58:55Dr. John Delony?

  All right, go ahead.

• 58:56Speaker 04

  Okay. She writes, "A few weeks ago on the show, you told the story of your friend Jaco admonishing you for saying you couldn't do pull-ups instead of saying you could do one pull-up. Does the story sound familiar?"

• 59:07Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, I remember it. I remember it.

• 59:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm pretty sure if Jaco admonishes you, you remember it for a minute or two.

• 59:12Dr. John Delony?

  You remember it.

• 59:13Speaker 04

  "You inspired me to go to the basement and to get to work on my husband's pull-up bar. I'm proud to say I can officially do two whole pull-ups."

• 59:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, dude.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  "After not even being able to get myself halfway up a few weeks ago. The world is my oyster now, and who's to stop me from saying that I can't do three next week? Love the show, and I've learned so much from you on how you sit with hurting people." P.S. Give Kelly a raise.

• 59:37Dr. John Delony?

  I'm trying.

• 59:40Speaker 04

  In all honesty, y'all, John doesn't, has nothing to do with myself.

• 59:43Dr. John Delony?

  I, listen, I am constantly trying. I'm trying. I'm trying.

• 59:48Speaker 04

  And I will say, you have tried. You have done a good job at that. Because you have, we've talked about that in recent days. We'll just leave it there, but you've, you've tried.

• 59:58Dr. John Delony?

  I'm working hard for everybody in the club, except for Alex. I'm just kidding. I got you, boo. I got you. But like, um, yeah, just that, I'll remember that line forever. By the way, in all fairness, I wouldn't consider, I don't have Jaco's cell number. We don't hang out, like, I wouldn't consider him a friend. He's a colleague. I've, I've done multiple events with them and et cetera. Um, so I just want to put that out there. But I, one of my big pet peeves is like, my good friend so-and-so that you're not, you know, you don't hang out or whatever. But I'll never forget that. You can do one? And I was like, oh, yeah, duh.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  And now Savannah can do two.

• 1:00:35Dr. John Delony?

  I know. And then next week she'll do three.

• 1:00:37Speaker 04

  And maybe by now she can do three. This was written in a week or so ago.

• 1:00:40Dr. John Delony?

  And all these years later, this morning, I was lifting weights in my garage, and I was like, dude, I'm just gonna do two. And then I thought, no, you said three sets. And I was like, okay, well, like, it's just keeping your promises to yourself.

• 1:00:55Speaker 04

  There are so many times when I'm working out, because, you know, I get up, same about five o'clock, and I do weights, and I'm like, I'm just gonna do two sets today. I'm, and the internal dialogue of like, no. Because I had a trainer once tell me the third set is where the change happens. And, but that internal dialogue that goes on like, no, do the third set. I don't want to do the third set. No, do the third set. This is what you're supposed to do. Do it.

• 1:01:18Dr. John Delony?

  Another Jaco line is, I don't negotiate with myself in the morning. And I love that line.

• 1:01:24Speaker 04

  I, I need to take that to heart because when that alarm goes off at 4:50, there's a lot of negotiation happening.

• 1:01:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I'm saying, I don't, I don't negotiate. There's just, there's just an is. And when, I was like, oh, yeah, I spend the first 30 minutes of my day negotiating with an exhausted, fried guy. And like, it's not super helpful.

• 1:01:43Dr. John Delony?

  Anyway, all right, way to go Savannah from Chattanooga. Via the south. Proud of you, dude. Hey, when you get to 10, send us a video, and Kelly will post it for America. Love you guys, bye.