Jake Johnson Returns Again

Jake Johnson (We’re Here to Help, The Dink, New Girl) is an actor, writer, and podcast host. Jake returns to the Armchair Expert to discuss why anything that can still evoke fading old school Hollywood is special, how everything feeling like a black box theater has him falling in love with acting again, and focusing on playing the game his way while he’s here. Jake and Dax talk about letting go of control to be present in his movie The Dink, why he strategizes his workflow to stay ahead of the darkness, and how he tries to re-engineer doing this business out of love. Jake explains building up better after the loss of a close friend, finding someone a kidney through his podcast We’re Here to Help, and the terrifying, thrilling process of performing scenes with Tom Cruise. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:06Dax Shepard?

  Hi, we have our friend on.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:08Dax Shepard?

  Returning, always gold.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Always gold, never silver.

• 0:12Dax Shepard?

  You need a guy to come in and score the winning game point, the buzzer beater. Jake Johnson's your man.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:19Dax Shepard?

  Jake Johnson, an actor and a podcaster, new girl, Spider-Man into the Spider-verse, Let's Be Cops, self-reliance tag and his podcast, which is hysterical. Everyone should listen. We're here to help. I'm jealous of their show because they get to give terrible advice and that's really the dream.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  It's not really the dream. You love giving, you don't, you say you don't like giving advice, but you do like it and you like giving real advice.

• 0:46Dax Shepard?

  Well, but also I want to be able to go like, you just tell the person to fuck off. That's the kind of advice they sometimes get to, you know, they're liberated to do. Yes, yeah, they have a different brand.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I just don't think it's, I understand.

• 0:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like when I'm watching a movie with a bad guy, I'm like, I want to play a bad guy.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03Dax Shepard?

  He's a bad guy, a really rough guy.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:07Dax Shepard?

  Billy Eilish.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay, please enjoy Jake Johnson. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, Audible, for supporting this episode. Armchair's Audible's Best of 2025 Collection is here. The year's top audiobooks, podcasts and originals across every genre. Their editors spent countless hours listening and debating to handpick this year's must listens. If you want to finish the year with something you know is going to hit, check out Audible's Best of 2025 and discover why there's more to imagine when you listen. Go to audible.com/bestof2025. We get support from Quince.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.

• 1:54Dax Shepard?

  I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a T-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up and everything at Quince is 50 to. Eighty percent less than similar brands. We're talking a hundred percent Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at sixty dollars.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Sixty dollars, sixty dollars for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. Gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories. They skip the middlemen and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy. It's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.

• 2:34Dax Shepard?

  The hundred percent Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time and he looks iconic.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  It's a uniform.

• 2:45Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.

• 3:03Dax Shepard?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  How's it going? Look at these boys. Oh, boys love me, boy. I'm good. How are you? It really has. I'm missing our hikes.

• 3:52Dax Shepard?

  That might be our longest break between hikes and I don't like it.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  We'll get back to it.

• 3:56Dax Shepard?

  Have you been hiking?

• 3:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:58Dax Shepard?

  You haven't. That's comforting to me.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:01Dax Shepard?

  Like if I found out you were there three times a week.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  I come right here. I do the same walk.

• 4:05Dax Shepard?

  Park directly in front of my house.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  He replaced you?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  No, an old jujitsu guy. We've been doing workouts in my garage and I mean like a really nice system.

• 4:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay, what's the routine? How many times a week does he come over?

• 4:17Speaker 02

  We're doing about five days right now.

• 4:18Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Which is the most I've ever done.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  That's a lot.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  It's a lot.

• 4:22Dax Shepard?

  It's just the two of you.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Just the two of us.

• 4:24Dax Shepard?

  In your garage.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  In my garage.

• 4:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay, what's the heating cooling sitch? Does it get a little hot in there?

• 4:29Speaker 02

  It gets a little hot in the summer. I got a big industrial fan.

• 4:33Dax Shepard?

  Swamp cooler?

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Fuck yeah, let's go.

• 4:35Dax Shepard?

  That's what you need.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  It's a Midwest basement vibe.

• 4:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I love it. I love it.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  That's the aesthetic of it. It's throwing up weights, blasting music.

• 4:43Dax Shepard?

  Do you feel bad for everyone who grew up around the country without basements?

• 4:47Speaker 02

  The best.

• 4:48Dax Shepard?

  It's like the one area your parents aren't really claiming. You can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  I love a basement.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  I love a basement.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:54Dax Shepard?

  You always had one, money?

• 4:56Speaker 01

  My first house didn't have one, but it was coveted. Like, we needed one. We did end up with one. And my new house kind of has a basement.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  That's cool.

• 5:06Dax Shepard?

  As does both houses I've owned in LA have suspiciously had basements. You ever?

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  I need a basement.

• 5:13Dax Shepard?

  How bad would you like one?

• 5:14Speaker 02

  We're kind of looking.

• 5:15Dax Shepard?

  You are?

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've been looking around for a new place. And one of the things, well, honestly, because my daughters are 12 now. And I want them in junior high and high school to be home. And right now, when they're home, as Dax knows, I've got a big personality. There's a lot of me in the house.

• 5:30Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Where are you guys going? What are you doing? What's happening?

• 5:34Dax Shepard?

  What are we getting in?

• 5:34Speaker 02

  What are you doing?

• 5:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  They're in their room together just, what's up, guys? Fucking triplets. And if they're having a sleepover, I'm starting to realize they might not want me around.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  They don't want Dad around.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Which is heartbreaking in its own sense, but go in the basement.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  Do your thing. Have fun.

• 5:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  I'll be upstairs.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's perfect.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  That's what I want.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Otherwise, they're gonna go to these crazy parties. Our friend's kid went to a party on Halloween. You know, now you pay to go to these parties. You pay like $25.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  What do you mean you pay to go to a party?

• 6:05Speaker 01

  You pay. And then the whole city goes to these parties.

• 6:08Dax Shepard?

  All organized on Instagram and TikTok.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Yes. And then you buy a ticket and then you go to these parties. And then this one was on the news.

• 6:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there were several thousand kids who showed up. Presumably, someone rented like an Airbnb.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:21Dax Shepard?

  So you've bought a ticket to the backyard.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:25Dax Shepard?

  Nobody can get in, but everyone paid. I don't know why you an iron.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  What a hustle. I've told you the story, what my uncle Eddie did to me when I was a kid. My uncle Eddie had legal trouble and he came to live with us for a little bit.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  I love your uncle Eddie.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, and he said, uh.

• 6:40Dax Shepard?

  He's a good man.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  He was a great man.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  He's the one that you did the fantasy football.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Well, that was the same hustle.

• 6:49Dax Shepard?

  Also sold signage.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:52Dax Shepard?

  He was like a craftsman of sorts.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  But that's the same move. You pretend you're throwing a party, you get an Airbnb, you invite everybody in the last second, you go, the fucking cop shut it down.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  You guys are mad?

• 7:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  We're mad.

• 7:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  That's an iron side going.

• 7:06Dax Shepard?

  We were in cuffs for a half hour.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  I got beat up by a cop.

• 7:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  I'm the maddest one here. I have a fur jacket, but I'm the maddest one here.

• 7:14Dax Shepard?

  We could slug each other a little bit, so we had.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Each get punched in the face once for that?

• 7:18Dax Shepard?

  For 30K.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  I do wonder how this works, because there's got to be an adult at the top of this.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Overseeing it.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, aren't they worried about liability and suing? I'm so confused.

• 7:30Dax Shepard?

  I don't know that there's an adult at the top.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Nobody's making that decision.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  How are they?

• 7:35Dax Shepard?

  There were kids in my school running pretty complex systems.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Airbnb?

• 7:39Dax Shepard?

  Well, I had a classmate that was a pimp. I don't know how.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  In high school?

• 7:43Dax Shepard?

  Yes, in high school.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  What was his age? Where did he get the women?

• 7:48Dax Shepard?

  He had a group of three gals.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  High school girls?

• 7:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I don't know how to, I'm gonna leave out the description of them, but they were excited to have sexual activity.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Oh, no, now we need, yeah, we need.

• 8:01Dax Shepard?

  I think you can fill in the blanks.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  They needed a little heat.

• 8:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they wanted a little heat.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  What an amazing.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  They had like frizzy hair or like.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  No, stop it. Frizzy hair ain't gonna stop.

• 8:11Dax Shepard?

  That doesn't get you into prostitution in high school.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  You interested in hooking up? I would, but your hair is frizzy.

• 8:17Dax Shepard?

  Your body's slamming, but your hair.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  No man is ever passed because of a little frizz.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Okay, I feel like I was passed on for frizzy hair.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  How frizzy? A little frizzy and what you're talking about might be two different animals.

• 8:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, how fucking frizzy was your hair?

• 8:35Speaker 02

  You're like.

• 8:35Dax Shepard?

  There's really with your blamper is that you're, you know, frizzy, your hair would have to, I think you had to imagine this whole.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  People overlooked the blamper. Yes, they did. They did overlook them.

• 8:45Dax Shepard?

  You overlooked people looking is my hunch.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 8:50Dax Shepard?

  What do you think, Jake? Young girl in high school, big blamper.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  What the hell's a blamper?

• 8:56Dax Shepard?

  I think you know what a blamper's are.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  A breast.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  A breast? You had big breasts?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, he doesn't even know that I still do.

• 9:05Dax Shepard?

  He's proving your point.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 9:07Dax Shepard?

  You're not aware of the fact that Monica has big blamper.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  I can't now. There's camera, Robert already told me there's cameras everywhere. All I need is that slow motion shot. It's like the guys at the Laker games. Those women when like they'll be seeing Kobe and you see someone going. You're like, don't, don't have those eyes be that.

• 9:24Dax Shepard?

  Go straight down.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Blamper's are boobs. You get big blamper.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  I continue to have big glamper's and I had them then.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  This is a baggy sweater, so I don't expect you to.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  You hide the blamper's.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  I guess.

• 9:35Dax Shepard?

  There's a time for blamper's and there's a time to stow the blamper.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  For sure. But it's like a gun. It's nice to have if you need it.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. That is.

• 9:43Dax Shepard?

  I got blamper's from New Zealand. When Seth and I were making Without a Paddle there, I don't know how we both discovered in the grocery stores, all the tabloids. They called boobs blamper's.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  Weird.

• 9:54Dax Shepard?

  Like they're blamper's and there's.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  I think it's cute, actually. Okay, now we need to go back to the prostitution.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:00Dax Shepard?

  And you know of this friend. He had three gals who loved physical intimacy and were down to show up anywhere and get physical. And everyone claims that they were quite happy with the arrangement.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 10:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, in high school.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Can I give you a crazy pitch?

• 10:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Bring them on the show. All four of them. The three of them and him.

• 10:21Dax Shepard?

  You know, he's a normal man with a family now.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  I'm sure they are too.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Let's hope.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Pixelate their faces.

• 10:27Dax Shepard?

  I would love.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  I wonder how they think about it now.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Or they had fun.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  They might've had fun and still now think of it as like, huh?

• 10:35Speaker 02

  That wasn't the best.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  That wasn't the best decision I ever made.

• 10:38Dax Shepard?

  That's a great topic because I read Cher's biography. She writes in her memoir about being a teenager and fucking Orrin Beatty, who almost hit her with a car, and she loves it. None of these stories are told in the framing of any victimization. It's all touchdowns. And I'm like, it's so interesting to read a book from somebody said in such a different time, who has that relationship with it. Who has anyone to say what is right or wrong in some weird way?

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  I'll tell you what I love is, and Eddie Murphy's doc did it too. And I feel like that old Hollywood is starting to really fade. And what used to be our business is faded. The thing we got into is fading.

• 11:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  So anytime you can touch that still, where it's like, that shit is still really cool.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  It's still really special. It's still really old school. Man, that's the good stuff. That's the stuff that I still love.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Aren't they gonna say that about this gen two at some point?

• 11:36Speaker 02

  So I love both worlds. My career started with YouTube stuff with Drunk History. So I was part of the change, but I also could do a commercial back in the day and make $70,000 and quit my catering job.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Same, I loved that.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Everybody used to come off for pilot season. Every actor had the same story forever. Now there's just new ways to do it, which is also cool. But anytime you get to taste that old world, Mary Steenburgen and I did a movie. And she was talking about when she was coming up. And I was like, that reminded me of when I was coming up, but that's not gonna be the stories. If my kids are into this, that thing is gone. It's quicksand.

• 12:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's really easy to kind of lament it going away or its passing. But I have really tried to focus more on like, oh no, you got to.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 12:20Dax Shepard?

  Like, Let's Be Cops might be the last successful action.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:24Dax Shepard?

  Or at least one of the last. So you can be bummed they're gone or you go like, oh, fuck yeah, I got to do movies where tens of millions of people went and saw it and they quoted the lines from it.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  It's true, but I will tell you in terms of the new world, which I love. I love being able to work and having it be a little bit more anonymous. So back then you did something, everybody watched everything. So your moves really mattered. I remember being like, man, if you make a wrong move, you could ruin the whole pyramid you've been building.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Now I can go off and do a show as like the second or third lead. I could do multiple years on it and you guys could go, what are you working on?

• 13:01Speaker 02

  I'm getting better as an actor. I'm experimenting. I'm loving it and nobody's seeing it besides the people who are seeing it.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Who like it.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Who like it. It's not what the game used to be. It feels more like a version of black box theater everywhere. I'm loving acting again, just taking gigs. I know we haven't talked in a little bit, but like gigging out.

• 13:19Dax Shepard?

  I did text you though, not terribly long ago, cause I saw you in a trailer for something. And I said to you, I know you've got your whole game plan with life, but it is a little frustrating. Wait, you don't remember this?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do.

• 13:33Dax Shepard?

  You're a phenomenal actor and you're really enjoyable to watch and people want you to be the lead of things and be a star. And I know you've got your zone that you feel good in.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  I love the zone.

• 13:44Dax Shepard?

  It is one of my things I wanted to get to, cause I do think Jake and I take these hikes and they're so, so fun.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  So fun. I love them. They mean a lot to me, Dex.

• 13:51Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  You really do.

• 13:52Dax Shepard?

  But we have a similar thing and I'm curious how much you think about it, which is like, I'm here to do my way. That's kind of the pride I get. It's like, yeah, I actually did this exactly how I wanted to.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  This being your whole life.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  I'm on this rock for hopefully 90 years. What'd you do while you were here? Was it interesting? Going back to the first time you see any idea of like Carpe Diem and seize the day, make your life extraordinary. What did you do while you were here? I don't want to play anybody else's game while I'm here. I want to play my game while I'm here and that thing changes a lot.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  And do you want it to be very unique?

• 14:28Speaker 02

  I don't care about that. No. I want it to be very personal. I always needed to feel right. And it's hard because I'm not always in touch with my feelings.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  That was a weird six months. That one's on me.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  But it's got to feel right.

• 14:46Dax Shepard?

  But would you say we both run the risk of we can create a good sales pitch, right? We're the both the sons of car salesmen specifically, which I would say is apex salesman.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  In another world, where are those guys?

• 14:57Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  There's another world where we met each other in the Midwest, became friends.

• 15:03Dax Shepard?

  Started a furniture store.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Did something very different. It went like, it's a lot of fun.

• 15:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the amount of fun we could have with those big weekend outdoor.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Sales, man.

• 15:12Dax Shepard?

  Sales, like a mattress warehouse where the parking lot is full of furniture you'll take home to your house. You don't care at that point.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  The last second deal.

• 15:20Dax Shepard?

  Taco Bell over the side.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Did you ever go to one of those, Monica?

• 15:24Dax Shepard?

  The furniture store would take over the parking lot. On the weekend you'd come and there's popcorn and some.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  You're just trying to get rid of everything.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  No, but it sounds cute.

• 15:31Dax Shepard?

  But it's funny to see all the furniture in the parking lot. Anywho, I think we're good enough salespeople that I latch on to this version. I'm committed to, here's my story about this and it involves what I think about the business. And then I share it with people. And because I think I'm an enthusiastic conveyor of the story, it looks like a lot of sign offs.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:53Dax Shepard?

  A lot of people are agreeing, but maybe they're just hearing a good story.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  Could be true.

• 15:57Dax Shepard?

  It could be a little bit misleading to both of us.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:00Dax Shepard?

  But do you think that sometimes the story really is a lot of self-protection? We've bailed out of certain opportunities.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Passed a lot of good stuff.

• 16:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and we have an overarching approach and explanation for this.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  It's like, this isn't in keeping with the way I want my life to go.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  But maybe it's about other things too.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Fear.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, but here's where I think it's different for me. I don't know if this is the same for you. This might be a dividing thing. Last night I took my kids and my wife and I, we went to the Glendale Galleria Mall. The outdoor one, Americana. I wasn't recognized once.

• 16:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay, congratulations.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  I didn't even do the weird glasses. When I was in the cars at night, I was like, we're gonna do the snow and the fountain. Should I just put the glasses? I was like, I don't want to be the glasses guy. I was like, I hate being that guy.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  It was so nice.

• 16:46Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  I've also been working more recently than I've worked in a while. We were talking a lot when we were both like, are we done?

• 16:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  And then I did, then I did Dink and I loved it. Then I did the movie with Joe in Alaska.

• 16:59Dax Shepard?

  What's that?

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Dakota Fanning and I, who by the way, I gotta give a shout out to Dakota Fanning.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Blampers?

• 17:07Dax Shepard?

  Giant blamper?

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Huge fan of this show.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  You need to have her on.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Wait, I love her.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  She is such a killer.

• 17:15Dax Shepard?

  Listen, we want to have her on.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Tell her to come on tomorrow.

• 17:17Dax Shepard?

  And I think we've even reached out and asked.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  She is the best.

• 17:20Dax Shepard?

  She is.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  And shocked to me how cool she is.

• 17:23Dax Shepard?

  What is she doing at 5pm?

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Seriously.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  I'll give you her number today.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Why don't you text her right now?

• 17:30Dax Shepard?

  We would love to talk to her.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  She is in that. Show right now too. That's

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Yes, that's great.

• 17:34Dax Shepard?

  Good show.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  All her fault.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yes. So Dakota and I did another Joe Swamber movie that Joe and I financed, put together in Alaska, fell in love with it. Then I took a job in New York just as an actor. All of a sudden, what happened to me going back to the Let's Be Cops? I would take these jobs with guys like Damon and I'm like, I love this. This is fun. But then there's billboards everywhere and it's not fun when I'm alone. If you and I go out and we get recognized, it's fun. Max Greenfield and I went out and got lunch. He just acts like Schmidt and pretends I'm Nick to the waitstaff. They go like, hey, do you want anything? He can't have dairy. And it's funny and fun.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  And they're getting such a kick out of it, seeing you two.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  It's a gag.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  When I'm alone, I'm not in that gag.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  What happens to you when you're alone? What happens if someone comes up to you? Like, what's going on in your head?

• 18:18Speaker 02

  I'm taken out of my own little fantasy world, my own little jarring thing.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  But do you feel like, oh, they?

• 18:23Speaker 02

  No, I appreciate, without them, I don't get to live my dream. I don't get to do all this. I don't get to have the house I have. My wife and I wouldn't have had kids unless we had a little bit of money. We were together forever. We were not doing Kids Broke. So, thank you. Appreciate you. But give me a second to catch up to this moment. I'm listening to a weird song. I'm Somewhere Else.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Yes. It's like, oh, I'm being watched. Is that a little bit of it?

• 18:45Speaker 02

  No, it's just, oh, I have to go back to work.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  I have to.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Be on it a little bit.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Be a little charming. I'm not gonna be rude to you.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  I appreciate you.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  Thank you. A second ago, I was in my own galaxy, which I like a lot. So what I'm liking about this era is I realized I miss the work. I still love being in a scene. Doing a great two-person scene when it's really fun. Still great. I just didn't like the other stuff.

• 19:08Dax Shepard?

  I was on a set, back to back, first time in five and a half years. And yeah, the scenes are fun.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Great.

• 19:15Dax Shepard?

  I was reminded though, I don't know if it's, sorry.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  No, I know what you're gonna say. It's true.

• 19:19Dax Shepard?

  ADHD?

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:21Dax Shepard?

  It's, I know, it's triggering. I keep hearing about the list of ADHD symptoms. I seem to have them all.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  We have it for sure.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Guys, no.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Our entire hike is it. Our hike should be called ADHD.

• 19:33Dax Shepard?

  This hike is brought to you by ADHD.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  And another thing, here's the other thing, we're yell talking.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  I know.

• 19:40Dax Shepard?

  Seventeen topics on the plate at all times.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  In the middle of a topic, we just fully switch.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  I know, but I just think that's, okay, we can't do this over. We now we've talked about this ad nauseam on this show.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  You think ADHD is being over diagnosed?

• 19:52Speaker 01

  I do.

• 19:53Dax Shepard?

  That's fair. That's totally fair.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  I'll tell you what, even with the false diagnosis, I'm not gonna do anything about it.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Right, okay, yeah.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  So I don't mind the diagnosis. I'm not making changes. I'm not taking anything for.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Medicine, yeah.

• 20:04Dax Shepard?

  I just go like, oh, that seems to describe me pretty well.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Fine. Nothing's changing. There'll be no adjustments.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  I love myself so much.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  It is what it is at this point.

• 20:13Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I don't want any treatment or sympathy.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  But I am moving fast mentally for no reason.

• 20:18Dax Shepard?

  And brushing my teeth is fucking agonizing. There's nothing more painful than brushing my teeth. It's a shocker I have teeth, because I hate it so much.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  But it's funny, because you brought up the teeth thing, and now, since you've brought it up, I'm like, no, I'm just hyper aware that I'm the same. I am doing all this stuff when I'm brushing my teeth. I didn't look for that, so I wasn't like, oh, I have this thing, because I wasn't looking for it. Now you're looking for it, and you're getting so much confirmation.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Did you guys have somebody on who really broke down ADHD?

• 20:46Dax Shepard?

  Well, we had, we had Gabor Maté on, who is the world's premier expert in it. And on the walk to his car, he said to me, "So have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD?"

• 20:55Speaker 02

  This is a dangerous thing with guys like you, having all these people. They explain it, and you go like, that fits.

• 21:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had like a sociopath on it.

• 21:04Dax Shepard?

  You ever been tested for pneumococcal pneumonia?

• 21:06Speaker 02

  No, but I probably got it.

• 21:09Dax Shepard?

  Was my breathing weird?

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got it.

• 21:11Dax Shepard?

  But all to say, I was also reminded, like, man, it's really a 1% of the time you're there. Are you doing the thing? That's still quite hard for me. I was remembering this sitting for an eternity.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  I'll tell you what I liked in the opposite, though. So you and I both did the thing where you start acting, then you want all the jobs. Then you do all the jobs.

• 21:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  I really liked on Dink. Sean Clements wrote it. He's so funny. Josh Greenbaum directed it. I wasn't pretending to be a fake AD.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  I was doing the scenes. I got to hang out with Mary and Ed Harris and all these funny people.

• 21:46Dax Shepard?

  You let everyone else worry about all the stuff.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  They're professionals there. When I worked with Joe, I was like, I love you, Joe. I think you're so good. Why would I think about how you're shooting this scene? I've committed to these days. Why would I think about these days? Cause I'm not on a television set where I'm there for nine months. Even the New York job, I would fly in for three days, fly home. While I'm there, I couldn't care less about the coverage. My only job is to connect to Jesse Hodges, who's great, and Tatiana Masalani, who's great. She's the new wife. She's the ex-wife. That's the kid. We're fighting for custody. Outside of that, I don't have a thought. So I could go into my little fantasy world, be listening to music.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  You let go of the control element.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Let go. So what I think it is, is I was trying to control everything, which goes back to childhood stuff. And now as I'm controlling less, I'm like, this is the job?

• 22:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Josh Greenbaum said something great, cause I directed, I go like, you're such a good director. You're way better than me. What do you like in an actor? And he goes, I just want them to be present. My whole job is to get it so that you can be present. And I'm like, that's my only job.

• 22:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Thanks, man.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:55Dax Shepard?

  I will tell you this, both jobs in my morning meditation, I was just going over and over saying to myself, today's goals are no power struggles. They say 6 a.m. call time. That makes no sense. I see my first scenes at 11. This is insane. Okay, I'll be there.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Good for you.

• 23:13Dax Shepard?

  Shit, the first one I did.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  Hold on, hold on, Dax, I'm the same as you.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  But he told me he didn't do it.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  But that's incorrect. Dax, the A Ds are the only old school part of our business that make no sense anymore.

• 23:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  A 6 a.m. call time when you're not working until 11 makes zero sense. I'll be there at 9:30.

• 23:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  I don't need to sit for three hours in a box. You're getting worse performance from me later.

• 23:34Dax Shepard?

  I did say, I noticed my pickup.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Don't give him that look.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  I'm gonna.

• 23:37Dax Shepard?

  My pickup time was two and a half hours before crew call and I'm playing myself. So I'm in my wardrobe. I do my hair. I need makeup. That takes 10 minutes.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  So he's definitely going to be just fine, but the thing is just practicing. Maybe I go, I know that this is kind of stupid. I know that I don't need to be there two and a half hour. I, yes, that's the control. That's the control.

• 24:00Dax Shepard?

  You're right. And I was able to do it the week before.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  I got in big fights with Jesse Hodges, the new show we did because she was you and I was Dax and I don't agree with that. Now here, but here's where I do agree. Don't fight the director, don't try to rewrite it, don't try to control it, don't tell the DP how to shoot it. Whatever they want to do while you're there, all you worry about is you. If you're calling me four hours before I'm needed, I'm not a Buddhist. I can't just sit on a hill. But that's the goal. Is that the goal?

• 24:27Dax Shepard?

  Well, listen, here's how I framed it, at least. I wrote back and I said, I just want to offer the gentlest pushback. It does appear that I will have two hours on set. Just to remind everyone, I'm coming in my own wardrobe and I'll have my hair done, but you know, blah, blah. And then the response is like, absolutely. How's 7:15 start?

• 24:44Speaker 02

  By the way, same. Yeah, that's what happens. So my thing is now, what I've gotten honest with, when you say, are you protecting? What I'm protecting is I'm trying to stay in front of the darkness.

• 24:55Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  So what I'm saying is, is I can't do it like this because I don't want the darkness to take.

• 25:00Dax Shepard?

  Because you want to be on set being totally open to everything and you don't want to have four hours of getting cranky before you start that big challenge.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  And I don't want to step into some bullshit in my head, me versus you. Why are you doing this? And then I go and now the script, I'm like, yeah, I'll shoot the scene too. But that fucking guy, Larry, Larry doesn't matter. You're not fighting with anybody. I don't want any of that. But if I do that tone as well, I just saw, if there's any reason, can you text me during the first scene, if you're going fast, I'm 21 minutes away.

• 25:33Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  And they go, great, we'll just let you know.

• 25:36Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's the dream.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. And I mean it.

• 25:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes, me too.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  Then when I get there, I'm thrilled. I'm like, oh, more shooting?

• 25:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, but so it was no power struggles.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Great.

• 25:48Dax Shepard?

  That's the number one thing. And then number two is like, I'm there to be of service to the project, the director and the star. Cause in this business, probably the star is as relevant as the showrunner and everything else. Both times I got through it. And what's interesting is because it's not ever been my approach, because it's control. I want to control as much as I can because I'm fearful that I won't be great.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Yes, totally right.

• 26:10Dax Shepard?

  So to go there with all those goals and to leave the days having no clue how I did. But with an inkling that that's going to work out is a whole new approach. Do you have that as well?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Well, it was different. So for dank the pickleball one, we were all kind of running that as a team, working with Mary Steenburgen. I was like, I will not have any darkness because she's so nice. So I will not have the mood where it's like, ooh, little cranky after lunch, didn't like that take. Shut up.

• 26:39Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  That was so pleasant. Then Dakota in Alaska was such a trip in such a good way.

• 26:46Dax Shepard?

  Tell me how.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  She's just old Hollywood in such a great way. And she's so smart and sharp and tough and a shit talker. And then once you call action, you're like, oh, you're so fucking good. And then in between, it's like, well, what are we doing? I said one night, I was like, well, you know, I'm not drinking tonight because I need to work. And she was like, oh, I'm so sick of all these guys in Hollywood who stopped drinking.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I love her. She needs to be my best friend.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Really what it was for me, so good in the scenes. Corey Michael Smith, so good in the scenes. Everybody in that movie was so good. And the New York job, I'm like, oh, I think I just want to work with people who are really good, but I don't need to be the boss of it. I don't want to run it. I don't want to deal with other people's emotional stuff. I'm not good at that. I'm bad with boundaries. So I get caught up, just want to come, do the job, dissociate.

• 27:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Whoever the character is supposed to be, hey, man, I'm Carl. Then when the day's over, thank you. And not think about it again. Not think what the reaction's gonna be. Who knows anymore? Who even has the streaming sites? I've been on shows that I don't even have the streaming site of the show.

• 27:53Dax Shepard?

  Me too. I did two seasons of Top Gear. I don't think anyone ever saw it, me included, and I'm on it.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  I had a whole season two of Mink. I didn't have stars.

• 28:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  It came out there like, what do you think of this? It's now on Netflix. I'm like, eventually I'm gonna check it out.

• 28:07Dax Shepard?

  But it's there. Are you sure?

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. People said good things about it.

• 28:11Dax Shepard?

  Wow. So this is interesting. We're in complete parallel despite not having had our monthly hike.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:16Dax Shepard?

  We somehow evolved in the same.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  I'm loving hearing you're back on set. I've thought about you a lot while I'm doing these jobs because I have been back to just acting on a set. And I remember us talking and kind of being like, maybe that thing is going in the background. And I have thought, oh, I'm loving this. And it feels like a rebirth. So Jesse Hodges said something really interesting to me that I don't know if it triggers to you. I was talking shit about acting. We had like a great scene. It was really a good morning. And then I was doing my narrative. And my narrative is, is acting's easy. It's just nothing. But the good stuff is when you write it, you direct it, you do all that, and you produce it, you finance it. But acting's easy. And as I was talking, my mind was somewhere else because I've said that so many times. And I know the reaction I'm gonna get. The reaction is like, you're a super smart guy.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  I'm gonna sell you a couch.

• 29:03Dax Shepard?

  He wanted the warranty.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:05Dax Shepard?

  He should probably get a warranty. He's got pretty high miles. I know he said it's great.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  But you're gonna love it. It's gonna be great. And if you want 50 bucks off, 50 bucks off. It's literal garbage.

• 29:13Dax Shepard?

  Let's go to the bar. Let these other people.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Anything's a profit, dear. And she goes, all I hear is self hatred. And I go, I don't think so at all. Because I was literally like, I'm selling you a fucking great couch here. And she said, because you're an actor. That's what you do. So the other stuff you like to do, and you're good at it. But she's like, I was excited to work with you because I think you're a very good actor. So when you're shitting on acting, that's just a form of self hatred. And I played the moment as smoothly as I could. I was like, I hear you. I mean, tomato, tomato kind of thing.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Agree to disagree.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Like, you know, that's a take.

• 29:47Dax Shepard?

  So that's a no?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  But also, we're different generations, and I'm gonna sell the couch to somebody else. But the more I sat on it, oh, I think she's right. Because the thing that you're good at is the thing you don't value. And the thing you value is the thing you're not good at.

• 30:03Dax Shepard?

  That's textbook, though, right?

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Thing that comes easiest, you feel.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Has no value.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Exactly. And it has to be hard in order for you to feel good about it.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  You have to know you're not quite good enough at it. And then it's valuable.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  And what I'm doing right now, like Damon Wayans and I are now selling a TV show. But it's the first one where in a pitch, I'm not the writer or the one talking. We have writers. We have producers. Damon and I are literally just there for color.

• 30:29Dax Shepard?

  To be funny.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  We get there, they have an 11 page thing they've worked out. The writers are so good. It's so scripted. Then there's areas, if Jake and Damon want a riff.

• 30:39Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  At the beginning, it was insulting to me, where I was like, no, it's Damon and I. And then I had to admit to myself, I really enjoy the pitch. I get to listen. I get to react.

• 30:50Dax Shepard?

  Counterpunch.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then Damon will say something really funny. Then we'll get into something. The reaction from the buyers has been big. And for the last couple of years, TV pitches for me, I'm like, TV's dead. It's not dead. It's just dead when I'm pitching them.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Do you have a fear of being indispensable? Cause that's kind of what it

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Sounds like a little bit to me.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Probably, but I also think the other thing that I'm also doing is, and it's more selfish because I love what you're doing. I don't want to be an asshole. I want to be open. I'm trying to figure out how to re-engineer it that I do this business out of love.

• 31:23Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  As opposed to fuck you, you'll see.

• 31:26Dax Shepard?

  Terrified.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  It was, everything's going to get revealed. I'm going to lose my house. I'm going to lose my family. I'm going to be without parents. If this doesn't land, I'm a dead person. I have nothing. My entire value is them going, pretty good. All right. Should we move into coverage?

• 31:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  It was too intense. It was sickening and I hated the business for it and I hated Video Village for it and I hated the person I was performing for because fuck you, man. Cause if I don't do it, you're going to kill me. You're going to take my wife away, my kids away.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they're like, no.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  They're like, this is a commercial.

• 31:59Dax Shepard?

  For Arby's.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  This is Geico.

• 32:01Dax Shepard?

  This is already going out of business.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  And we cast you.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Right. We already like you. You're good.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Motherfucker. And I was like, this is going weird. And then I would need a drink to calm down. And so my big switch was, I was like, I know I can't do that anymore.

• 32:16Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor, Audible for their support. So Audible just dropped their Best of 2025 collection. And I gotta say, this is one of those things that actually makes your life easier, Monica. Their editors have been doing the heavy lifting. We're talking countless hours of listening, heated debates and the whole thing. They've handpicked the year's top audiobooks, podcasts and originals across all your favorite genres. And what I love is that they're not just highlighting the giant releases, though those are in there. They've also dug up some real hidden gems, the stuff that might've flown under the radar, but totally deserves your attention. I love a good recommendation. My cue is out of control. So anytime there's a curated list like this, I breathe a little

• 33:00Dax Shepard?

  easier. Two titles I'm excited about, Sunrise on the Reaping. Anything Hunger Games related is an automatic ad for me. And Someday Now, which everyone says is incredibly warm and reflective. If you want something solid to close out the year, this is a great place to start. Check out Audible's Best of 2025 and discover why there's more to imagine when you listen. Go to audible.com/bestof2025.

• 33:25Dax Shepard?

  We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that, too.

• 33:42Speaker 01

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• 33:54Dax Shepard?

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• 34:08Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 34:12Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 34:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Experts sent you. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing. And Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe you're in the same spot.

• 35:15Dax Shepard?

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• 35:35Dax Shepard?

  Everything you need to go from I've been working on this to here it is. Come find me all in one place, no code, no stitching together a bunch of different tools. So if you've been sitting on something and waiting for the right moment, this might be it. Head to squarespace.com slash DAX for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 36:00Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time, but even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 36:42Speaker 01

  They never are.

• 36:43Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  In relationships, can you accept that people love you?

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been with my wife since 2004.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  But did it take a minute with her to accept it?

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  That's so sad.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. How about for you? You're like, fuck, no.

• 37:09Dax Shepard?

  Notice her blambers in four years of high school.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Blambers, yeah.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  So you think you're not being seen?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, wearing baggy clothes. I'm like, no one can see them.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Big ass blambers under this. I mean, I can't see the blambers.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  I know, I understand.

• 37:23Dax Shepard?

  Roll up in a Ferrari. Everyone's acting like I got out of a Pinto. Can't you see these blams? Look at my blambers.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  And I'm not cured from it. One thing I hate about podcasts in this era is everyone's talking about how bad they used to be and how good they are now, where I'm like, well, that's not accurate. You have not fully gotten fixed.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  But I'm in the transition of trying to realize that it's not a life or death performance and the stakes aren't as high as I think they are. And other people aren't in fight or flight. Like last night, I was at the Glendale Mall and my wife went to the bathroom and my kids went on their own. And so I was alone looking at this goofy ass fountain. I don't like that mall.

• 37:59Dax Shepard?

  I don't like that. Well, tell me why you don't like it.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  It's Disney.

• 38:01Dax Shepard?

  I was there by myself the other day and I was like, this place is great.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  You do?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  I don't like the Disney. I don't like Disneyland. I don't.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Cause it's too happy?

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it's manufactured happiness.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 38:14Dax Shepard?

  Manipulated.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  When a place tells me this is where you're safe and you're happy, I go, not me.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  You don't trust it.

• 38:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, watch. I have the darkest day of my year today.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I want you to just try to go and be like, I want to look at the Americana, the way she looks at the Americana.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  Well, what I had last night was I was sitting there and then I got a little paranoid. I was like, all right, what's the game plan if I don't hear from the kids? And I looked around and I realized most of these people might just be really sweet people.

• 38:43Dax Shepard?

  I think they are at the Americana.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  And I was like, oh, it's really funny. I see people as threats and I think everybody else does. And I think of this as the animal kingdom and we are all predators and it's scary. And then I looked around and I was like, I'm seeing the world through some weird eyes.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Cause this looks like a bunch of sweet people with their families looking at fake snow.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  And smiling so big.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  And they're looking at a trolley and I'm like.

• 39:08Dax Shepard?

  It goes nowhere.

• 39:10Dax Shepard?

  The trolley went nowhere, but now you realize the trolley goes everywhere.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  It's just about the ride.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  You know what's really funny about this? So you go to the movie Parenthood, which was awesome. There's that great monologue from the grandma and she said, some people really like life going around in a Ferris wheel and just going around and around. And other people really like the roller coaster. I've always been a roller coaster as I'm aging. As I'm getting older, I'm like, I think I've done enough roller coasting.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  I'm starting to feel, I felt it during self reliance, but I started feeling my life force for the first time. And I was like, oh, this well isn't bottomless. And that had never been me. I don't know if it's ADHD. I don't know if it's survival shit.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  I could always, I could go forever. I'll never quit. And all of a sudden I'm like, I could quit.

• 39:54Dax Shepard?

  This feels dangerously opportunistic and mildly gross, but I do think it could be relevant. But your friend killed himself. Do you think that's having any effect on this?

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Huge.

• 40:04Dax Shepard?

  Cause that was a dude, I knew him a little bit. It was really important to him, all that stuff.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Yes. Jeff Bena. And it's really funny because I think our break from hikes happened right as Jeff killed himself.

• 40:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. We've only hiked once since that happened.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  Because he was my other hiking buddy. I'm like coming back into it, but I would either go to your house or four blocks away, I'd go to his house.

• 40:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So anytime you come hiking here, I'm sure.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  When I come to this neighborhood, I'm a little bit like, ah, fucking guy's dead. No, it's had such a big impact, way more than I thought it would, which is a stupid thing to say.

• 40:37Dax Shepard?

  Well, there's waves, yeah.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Until you, yeah.

• 40:39Dax Shepard?

  You go through the waves. The first was, is what I told you when we hiked, which is, was talking to someone that happened to have been at the wake or whatever it's called. And they said, oh man, do you know Jake Johnson? And I go, yeah, he's my hiking buddy. And they go, he gave the most incredible U L G imaginable. It was so real and angry and heartfelt and a lot of stuff.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm really mad at him.

• 41:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Well, my U L G was this, and I gave it a lot of thought, because it happened when my dad died too. My brother was like, you gotta speak. And I was like, I don't.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  And I was like, who am I fucking speaking for? His AA buddies?

• 41:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Eighty year old Jewish guys?

• 41:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Cousins on my dad's side I didn't grow up with. I don't need to cry in front of strangers.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like this is not a performance.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  I don't like crying in front of anybody, barely in front of my wife. So I'm like in front of a bunch of people, pass. And then I realized for my dad, all right, I guess I'm doing it for him. But I didn't feel my dad. So while I was doing it, I'm like, this isn't for him. This is for my brother and sister.

• 41:39Dax Shepard?

  Well, you know what it is for him? Cause our dads were so similar.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:42Dax Shepard?

  His big shot son came and did the U L G.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  He liked that.

• 41:46Dax Shepard?

  He was out there going like, yeah, they all recognized my kid from TV.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  They were a little bit excited.

• 41:50Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. But for Jeff, it was very clear. Jeff Bena was the biggest know it all I've ever met. I'm a know it all. You're a know it all. I'm now putting you under that umbrella.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Now I've gotten to know you a little bit. You're not a know it all. But I do know a lot. You do. You're opinionated, but not a know it all. Jeff was a true know it all. Our hangs, similar to you and me, we would get on a subject and then sometimes it would turn into a slight debate, even very similar. Do you not want those jobs out of fear? That's your sales pitch. My sales pitch is, no, I'm out of love. Now we're debating our sales pitches.

• 42:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  And it's really fun. And then you always leave and you go like, they had some nice valuable points. I like that. And I had some nice valuable points. And if it's polling, I don't know who's winning. I think we're at 50 50. And so Jeff and I had a ton of topics and when he killed himself, all the debates stopped. Yeah.

• 42:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  And I was like, that's not fair, man, because we haven't finished.

• 42:47Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  When we became friends, it was instant. And he goes, I'm a big believer that I don't know what this world means, but I do know something else is going on. And there are moments that you get connected to the invisible and you go, I don't know, but this shit is different than I thought it was. Yeah. I'm not trying to explain it. I'm okay with the mystery of it. I agree. When I met Jeff, we connected right away and he said, we're going to be old men together. And I was like, I know that's true. We are going to be playing bocce ball and I'm going to be arguing with this fucking old man. Honestly, one of the most difficult guys I've ever met. The amount of people he would kick out of his house, the amount of people who contacted me after he died and he goes, I'm really sorry for your loss. I'm a little bit mixed myself. He was really rude to me.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  A little more on the fence about it. A lot of people had to call and go like, I'm calling to say I'm sorry to you. He literally kicked me out of a basketball league I started. Oh my god. So Jeff was not a dark guy. Dave King said something so funny. He said, when somebody kills themselves, everybody says, I mean, anyone but him. And he goes, but this one's very true. Anybody but Jeff. He let a lot of light in. He was not an anxious guy. He was not a depressed guy. He was a routine guy. So he just did the same routine.

• 43:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  And so the disappointment of my eulogy was, so Jeff has now, in my life, transitioned, he's now entered my dreams. So I now talk to Jeff every night. I've asked Jeff to help oversee with my kid. He's part of my nightly, whatever prayers are, OCD, manifesting, whatever that shit is. Yeah. He's now entered that space. But at his eulogy, I really thought, I'm gonna challenge him and he's gonna make an appearance.

• 44:25Dax Shepard?

  He's so indignant, he'll have to show up.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  He's such a prick.

• 44:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  He would call up and go like, hey, hey, you wanna play hoops? And I'd be like, sure. We'd go to a court to be straight up gangsters. Your vibe changes.

• 44:36Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Not with Jeff. Jeff's calling touch fouls.

• 44:39Dax Shepard?

  I didn't mean it.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  And then in the car after, when there's almost a fight, he's blaming them.

• 44:44Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  We are like, it's fucking you, dude. It's you. And so my whole speech was doing to him, it's you, you're the weird one. Cause what I really thought he was gonna do is, I thought he was gonna like fuck with the mics. I thought something was gonna shift so that I could say, I'm sorry I didn't see it. Cause the real nightmare of suicide is you think you got a good read on people and you missed it. Yeah. Where you're like, fuck, man. We were supposed to hike. Um, we were texting right up until he passed and we were gonna hike and he stayed up really late and I've got kids, so I'm waking up early. So I go, yeah, man, I'd love to hike. I go, how's noon? Cause he wants to start at two, I gotta be home at three. Yeah.

• 45:27Dax Shepard?

  Two's too late.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  At first I was saying, how's 10, man? How's nine?

• 45:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  And he's like, impossible.

• 45:32Dax Shepard?

  I mean, the folks you're gonna see on a 2pm hike are questionable. Yeah.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  It's crazy. It's so hot.

• 45:36Dax Shepard?

  Night shift, why are they out there?

• 45:38Speaker 02

  But here was where I look back, where I go like, ugh, cause he told our other friend, Miguel, when things were going dark for him, Miguel said, talk to Jake, Jake loves you. And he goes, Jake's really busy with his kids and his work. I don't wanna bother him. And now he's dead. So the big turn for me has been, what am I doing wrong to not let people, that's why when we started, I said, you mean a lot to me.

• 45:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Cause I was like, oh, I don't think I did that to him. I don't think he knew how much we all loved him. I think he really thought in the end. He's doing a movie. I'm like, fuck the movie. Who gives a shit? Yeah, I'm seeing my kids, but the only reason I'm obsessive is because my dad wasn't there and I'm being weird. Say, I need you. My kids don't want me around. My wife is not a possessive woman. She'd be like, go live at Jeff's.

• 46:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you might need a month or two of you around.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  And I do think if we went on that hike that day, in my heart of hearts, I know he'd be alive.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  God, I don't know Jay.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  I don't know, but I know that response. I know that response and I don't feel a sadness or darkness. I know Jeff and Jeff and I called each other out on shit and he had been getting really skinny and he was starting to lose hair. In the last hike I saw, he looked really skinny and weird and I did a little bit like, and he's like, I've just been eating these smoothies. He was getting like depressed skinny. He was graying out a little bit and supposedly by the end it got really bad. And I do think we would have had a, you know, if it's professionally, want to make a movie, let's make one in our backyards. Let's cast every one of our friends and let's just do it. If you're afraid of being alone, same. Let's play poker five nights a week. We can create a whole thing, but that day I didn't make that effort and you're like, oh, that's now 50 years.

• 47:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now I don't question that you couldn't have executed that game plan. I question how much a fellow know it all could have taken it all in and adjusted, given, even if he loved you and respected you.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:28Dax Shepard?

  I mean, I think it's very parallel to like addiction. There's no speech you can give one of us.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  You can't.

• 47:33Dax Shepard?

  You're on that run. It's like, no one's gonna call.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  So I hear you. I've gone pretty deep. So I think there is a narrative about mental health and suicide that helps those who are alive.

• 47:45Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  Anybody who's listening, who's lost somebody, I'm not talking about you.

• 47:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I'm not saying you did anything wrong. I don't know your story. I just know Jeff. Even if I just said, fuck your two o'clock hike weirdo, let's get lunch and we just talked. We would have challenged each other, talked a little shit and we could have come up with a three month window. Because I don't think it was inevitable. I think he got caught in a moment. The moment happened, the night happened, he thought this is a winning move. This is my best play right now. And part of one of his final message was, I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy, but you guys will build up better. And I have. And so that's why he's in the prayers where I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm going to honor your life, man.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  But I think we could have done this with you here. And so I just think if we had the type of male friendship, which we did not, like I would never tell him, I'm having mental problems. He would go, what's going on? Why are you talking so slow? And I'd go, because you're talking fast. I wouldn't say, because I'm dissociating, man. Because we were always jabbing. But what I knew is if I said to him, Jeff, I love you and I'm not feeling great. He'd go, I got you. But I'm like, we don't have to say that because we know that.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  But maybe you have to say.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  You gotta say, and I'm like, ah, fuck. So I know if in that moment I said to him, yeah, you have an anxiety the first time? Welcome to the fucking world, asshole.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:14Dax Shepard?

  Right, right.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Oh, you're feeling dark? Yeah.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  But I think it requires the person themselves, like you said, if you went to him and said, I'm low. It requires someone saying, I need help.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:25Dax Shepard?

  And him to have been aware of on that hike that suicide was on the table, which might not even have been fully conscious.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  But there's also people you find that you sync with. I only find people, if we're Legos, we connect. If it doesn't connect, I don't want to force it. I'm going to wear you out. I'm going to say something that's going to fuck up your process. I'm going to make a joke that didn't translate. I'm too old for it. I've already burned too many little things. But if I fit with a Lego, we're never not going to fit. You might go, oh, my God, shut the fuck up. But I'm not sensitive to that. And I could say to you, shut the fuck up. But yeah, the Jeff thing was a nightmare. That's been the reason for the hikes.

• 50:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay, the podcast, we're here to help. You're in year four, three?

• 50:06Speaker 02

  End of two. Doing about three a week now, so we got about 250 episodes. Yeah, we're having a lot of fun.

• 50:12Dax Shepard?

  You're releasing three week?

• 50:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've gotten totally ADHD addicted to it. I love it. I love how the game shifts. I love that there's not a studio or a network, so we can keep changing it. I like that the show's evolving. I like that there can be experiments. We're a call in show.

• 50:27Dax Shepard?

  Of the many topics you guys have wandered into, have there been any that have burbled up in 250 where you're like, oh, God, we're accidentally in a very serious.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Yes, one's happening right now.

• 50:38Dax Shepard?

  It is, tell me.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  And it's what I love about the show. So the show has, it's really connected audience. It's not huge, but it's the same people every week. And you realize, oh, you're just performing for them. And then you're like, you're not even performing, you're just talking. And then they all comment, they all email. You're like, it's the same.

• 50:54Dax Shepard?

  But that's comforting.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  It's fun. Yeah. And it's with my buddies. And so a woman called in and the end result, something about her husband eats too much popcorn in bed. We like stupid premises.

• 51:06Dax Shepard?

  And how many days a week was he eating popcorn in bed?

• 51:08Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 51:08Dax Shepard?

  Every night?

• 51:09Speaker 02

  All the time. This guy's eating way too much fucking popcorn.

• 51:11Dax Shepard?

  So much popcorn.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  I don't think it's good for your digestion. Now in kernels everywhere.

• 51:14Dax Shepard?

  In his teeth.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  The turn of it became, he had a brain tumor. And then the last turn was he's on dialysis and he needs a kidney transplant in March. Oh, shit. So while we were on, in the moment, I go, well, hell, if anybody from the community wants to donate a kidney, we can make a whole game of it. And we can do like, we do a version right now that Rob and Natalie created called like, a friendship game where people called in, they needed friends. So we like set people up on dates.

• 51:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, nice.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  And then we follow up with it. And we've had over four people write in saying, I legitimately will donate my kidney. And so now we're starting to go, well, if we can really bring a kidney to this guy, maybe we could do a live show near the hospital, donate some like, Oh, my God. Let's connect to this.

• 52:00Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  It's just zooms in our girl with like my buddy Garrett. Wow. But I'm like, it's entering a world where everybody knows the bits of the show. So they're all bits.

• 52:10Dax Shepard?

  But.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  This is the first one in a while where I'm like, this is what I'm most excited. If we can get a kidney transplant and it could work, somebody's happy to give it. And this guy's happy to do it. And it's because of our goofy little podcast.

• 52:21Dax Shepard?

  Did you say? Brain cancer, though?

• 52:22Speaker 02

  He had a brain tumor or something.

• 52:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but he's beaten that.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Yes. I guess in March, when he's done with the cancer treatment, he can get the kidney transplant.

• 52:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my goodness. Okay.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  And so now people email in. I checked the email. So I just forward to this woman, Whitney, which is the wife of the guy. And I said, this is real life. You vet.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:42Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  When you like somebody, bring them on the show. But we're not vetting.

• 52:47Dax Shepard?

  All right. We want no part of this.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  You're vetting. For me, with the way my brain works, I can lay in bed and go like, oh, the last guy seemed like a pretty good option for a kidney. And it's fun as hell.

• 53:01Dax Shepard?

  Are you looking at them or just hearing them?

• 53:03Speaker 02

  No, just hearing. We tried looking. It changes it. They were different. It was more of like, whoa, this is fun.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  They were on in a different way.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  There was a show that's done in New York. There was This American Life about it, where a guy just left an anonymous number and said, leave messages with your problems.

• 53:18Dax Shepard?

  Yes, people admitted to like killing people and stuff. Yeah.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  I think when you see someone's face, they're not as honest.

• 53:24Dax Shepard?

  We're in an interesting one where we look at all the callers.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  And they look at you?

• 53:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  But nobody else sees them. It's not like it's on video.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Right, but you guys see each other.

• 53:32Dax Shepard?

  We see each other. And what I realize in that is the audience won't see them because it's anonymous. But I'm realizing, God, so much of this story is about what you're seeing, how they look. It becomes really clear how much of a story

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:51Dax Shepard?

  has to do with the person involved in it. And that has a lot to do with what they just look like.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Totally right.

• 53:56Dax Shepard?

  What thoughts do you have about that?

• 53:58Speaker 01

  I think we gain a lot from seeing the person and from reading their emotions. Our show's different. It can get wild, but it's not meant to be like super jokey or anything. It is sincere.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  I think the sincere thing is a really great distinction. Because ours is you need to be sincere, but we are looking for laughs.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 54:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm jealous of your structure.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  I don't want to offer real advice. A lot of the times I'm like, I don't know. But if you're okay with the premise being if you went to a bar and you had two drunk uncles, they might give bad advice, but it might lead you there. If a caller is a little bit nervous and a little bit slow, it's our job to now steamroll a little bit and our audience could get annoyed with us and go like, fucking stop with the steamrolling. It's like, I understand, but I'm also producing the show. Each call's 25 minutes. We gotta find some levity and some lightness. So that's why the kidney one is so fun. Because it was a really fun caller. She's really funny.

• 54:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Starts so inane, fucking popcorn in bed.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  But also she's really funny because she'll be like, enough with the popcorn. And then we found out we're like, it's got brain cancer. What are you nuts?

• 55:07Dax Shepard?

  Well, I was gonna say, I'm shocked that people.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Give this guy a break.

• 55:10Dax Shepard?

  I'm happy people volunteer to donate their kidney because if you start off by saying like, if you keep this guy alive, he's going to drive this woman crazy with all the popcorn eating. It's like, you know, it's like, I don't know what the ethical thing to do is here.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  But what I love about podcasts, and I don't know if you guys love the same part of it, but the audience gets to know your podcast personality and who you are on the show. And there's parts of it they like, and there's parts you don't like, and the callers get annoyed with you. I love when somebody calls in our show and we pitch and they don't like it. Or they go like, eh, they're like, don't do that right now. Don't do that thing you do. It makes it feel like we're old friends. It's like a weird cousin. I do a thing that whoever I'm talking to, I do kind of side with them. So if somebody calls in and they go, I'm bringing my husband on, but you can't side with them. The premise is you're on our side. I'm like, I agree with you right now. Once that other guy starts talking, I'm like, I got a squirrel's brain, man.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  So to have somebody then be legitimately being like, this sucks, Jake. I wouldn't have called in. I'm like, you're mad at me like we know each other. You just called in and that feels really joyful. Yeah. Where it'll finish. Connection. I'll hit the little zoom and then Gareth and I will text. We'll both be like, it's still fun. It's very, very fun. Like it's still there.

• 56:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm a little jealous that you have that lane you can occupy because I even think that's one part of Stern I love is just occasionally he's got the call and he's like, you're terrible. What are you, what phone are you on? Are you in the Lincoln tunnel? It's like berating them. That's enough, or I want to get off this call.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  I know my audience is bored.

• 56:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That seems kind of fun.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  It's copied from him. Because I did always like where he would go like, what are you talking about?

• 56:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  And you'd be like, he's a dick, but I love his whole group. But he's too mean, but I also was bored.

• 56:54Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh, yes. He's doing the dirty work.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  It was getting a little bit boring. So I do like that element of it. But what we can't do that you guys can do is when ours gets sincere, and there is something, you're like, we gotta still make it light. If we do the kidney thing, there can't be an emotional moment. What it has to then be, it'll be a version of like the dating game. Our friend Steve Berg will be our Chuck Worley, where he'll be like, Jesus Christ, who's the number one contestant? It'll be silly and ridiculous, and the sweetness will come after when we're alone, where we'll go like, jeez, this is really heavy.

• 57:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  But we'll never present that out. That comes later when we're alone. It's the same thing with like the Jeff stuff.

• 57:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  Our show isn't saying, this community means a lot. This is really fun. This is a great connection. We go like, check out how funny that guy's armpit smell.

• 57:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  But I'm like, I like that zone.

• 57:48Dax Shepard?

  But some of the topics are really funny, like the HOA tyrant episode. Someone calling about a HOA president issuing fines and rules. You stumble into all these grievances people have.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  I love it. There's one right now that made me think of that. I don't know if it's that one, but there was a woman who they were doing construction across the street on a new building. And from her window, she could see right into the bathroom. And they had frosted the top, but not the bottom. So she could watch the construction workers take shits.

• 58:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  And she's like, I have to tell them because people buying it think it's frosted. But I can see them go to the bathroom. And so then we had her go with her phone and record on a voice note, talking to the builders.

• 58:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 58:32Speaker 02

  You have these guys in the background being like. No way. You can see us?

• 58:36Dax Shepard?

  They've all jerked off too, right? If you're taking a shit at work, you're definitely jerking off. Yes. Have you ever had a terrible job? It's your only ray of sunlight.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Do you take a dump and jerk off at the same time, you animal?

• 58:50Dax Shepard?

  Dump and then you're there and you're nude and you start thinking and you don't want to go back to your...

• 58:55Speaker 02

  What are you, a four-year-old boy?

• 58:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, well, if the situation calls for it.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 59:02Dax Shepard?

  If it's honest, sometimes I'll get fully nude.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I don't think so.

• 59:06Dax Shepard?

  You didn't jerk off at work with shitty jobs back when you were a kid?

• 59:10Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 59:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. First of all, I couldn't go through a whole day without jerking off in my late teens. I worked at this place that built race cars and it was all like 35-year-old mechanics. They were disgusting when I was 15 and I was so nervous, but they had a stack of smokers in the toilet. I looked forward to going to work so I could go sit in that bathroom. Look at the really terrible, dirty magazine.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Magazine. Everyone's touched that.

• 59:34Dax Shepard?

  I know, but you just... You wait till you're done to think about that.

• 59:39Speaker 02

  The internet was another world.

• 59:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you just needed that.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  It was another world.

• 59:43Dax Shepard?

  You needed a nice magazine. Wow. So you weren't doing a lot of that?

• 59:46Speaker 02

  I don't remember if I was. I'm sure I have, but it was not one of the things that's front of mind.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  It's not sticking out to you.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  It's not sticking out.

• 59:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I do want to know about the ding because when does it come out? And how did it come about? Because it's you and Stiller are producing?

• 59:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's coming out end of spring on Apple and that came about... Do you know Sean Clements, the writer at all?

• 1:00:05Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  He's a UCB guy, right?

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  He's a UCB guy. So funny. We did a show years ago called Alan Gregory that Jonah Hill was on, that Sean was a writer, and I was doing bits on it and he and I just partnered up. So we do the occasional, once every like six-month lunch. It was a few years back and he said, what are you working on? I was like, nothing. I'm just doing the podcast. I don't know if I want to work.

• 1:00:25Dax Shepard?

  I don't work anymore.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  I was like, I kind of don't work anymore. And then he goes, what would you want to work on? And this was pre-Trump coming back into office. I go, I know things are going to get really crazy at the election and the country is going to get really ugly. I want to make something that's big and ridiculous and fun with big comedic set pieces. I was like, I just want to be on a set where it's funny again. I don't want to do anything that's teaching anybody anything. I don't want any message. I don't want anyone to try to learn anything. And then he's like, do you play pickleball? And I'm like, no.

• 1:00:53Dax Shepard?

  So for Father's Day 2023.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  Loved that, by the way. Loved volleyball, too.

• 1:00:57Dax Shepard?

  2024, maybe.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  The volleyball one I've thought about, too.

• 1:00:59Dax Shepard?

  Father's Day sports. Do you remember as a wall-to-wall sports tournament?

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  You ever watch Physical Asia?

• 1:01:05Dax Shepard?

  I watched Physical 100. I know Asia's now out and I haven't seen it, but I've watched the previous season.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  When you said the volleyball and the pickleball, I was thinking your Father's Day was just physical.

• 1:01:15Dax Shepard?

  Physical 100, yeah, yeah. There should have been a hang.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  It's like Field Day all over.

• 1:01:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it was.

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  It was really fun.

• 1:01:21Dax Shepard?

  Anna Masuus.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  Yes, but he said we got a big fun movie idea, then sent it to Stiller. Stiller is in it, produces it, got to do two-person scenes with him where we got to improvise.

• 1:01:32Dax Shepard?

  Tell me about that.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  One of the funniest guys I've ever done a scene with. It was so fun being in the scenes with him because you forgot, oh yeah, I got into this because I really like bits. I like laughs. I like really funny people. He was doing an improv that didn't make the movie. He was talking about like money and he was improvising. I was saying he went to a prostitute or something and he was trying to break down what is prostitution. And I'm not going to try to redo the bit, but watching him find the bit, I was just in the scene with him, asking him questions. I started laughing so hard and I just was like, oh yeah, there's a reason he became Ben Stiller. It's because he's so funny. And then watching him, he reminded me comedically of my buddy Bill Bungroth when my buddy Billy does bits. And I was like, oh, there's a time Ben Stiller was like 14 and funny.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  You're like, it's the same rhythm. Like his whole bit was, oh wait, I gave you this paper that's green and you do a sex act.

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  He was in, I'd be like, well, you have your pain for sex. And he's like, by this? And he just fully committed to that. It was so stupid, but I was like, holy shit, there's a reason he's him.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, we take it for granted after a while.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  And then you watch enough stuff, there's now so many options that you'll be like, yeah, I've seen him a bunch.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  But being faced to, I'm sure you guys get this here.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Anthony Hopkins, we just had on it. In the middle, you're like, oh yeah, what?

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  You're just a person.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  And we're like, oh my God.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  It's madness.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  And that goes back to what I still really like about it that I missed. Where you get to go like, oh, you're so good at this. And even someone like Dakota, it worked out. She had liked Joe's movies as we were putting the movie together. I didn't have a lot of thoughts. She's great. I know I'm a fan. When it's in between action and cut and you go like, oh, right. That's why at six you got cast with Denzel. Exactly. It's not by chance. Right.

• 1:03:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay. My last question for you, because we've had you now several times and I'm aware of it. And I had some interest in it, but now I have an entirely new interest in it. Because this summer, the family, we did Tom Cruise's Cruises is what we called it. So the whole summer, we were only allowed to watch Tom Cruise movies at night. And we were all in Nashville together for two months. So

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  That's fun.

• 1:03:45Dax Shepard?

  We watched every Mission Impossible, all eight.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  How are they?

• 1:03:50Dax Shepard?

  They're phenomenal. They're impossibly good.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I bet.

• 1:03:54Dax Shepard?

  You're like, oh my God, they're way better than I remember. And I remember they were great. And he

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  They're so good. Best movie star in

• 1:03:59Dax Shepard?

  Of all time.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  The best.

• 1:04:00Dax Shepard?

  There is a sequence in one of the MIs, maybe four or five, and it's Philip Seymour Hoffman talking to Tom. And he's Ethan Hunt and he's cuffed to a chair and Philip Seymour Hoffman is counting down to 10. And at 10, he's going to kill his fiancee. So it's a real time countdown in 10 seconds, basically. 10, 9, you know, Phil. Cruise is giving you fucking explosive anger.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:25Dax Shepard?

  Then pleading acceptance, then fawning, then a snap. It's not going to work back to aggression. And then the fucking solo tear coming out at the end at 10. And I'm like, no actor has ever given us the whole range of human emotions in 10 seconds.

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  He's the best.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:04:51Dax Shepard?

  We get support from our sponsor, Lily. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepran. Foundo is a once-daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 1:05:16Speaker 04

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• 1:05:56Speaker 04

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• 1:06:14Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Instagram teen accounts. So, we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up, and one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 1:06:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so Instagram has got something called teen accounts, and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So, anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age-appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications from 10:00 PM to 7:00 AM.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 1:06:59Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age-appropriate experiences for teens.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram's helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 1:07:18Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace.

• 1:08:02Dax Shepard?

  And Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real-world experience into everything they teach. From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV. We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace. And I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic, and Peloton helps you feel all of that.

• 1:08:47Dax Shepard?

  And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic. Plus, they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.

• 1:09:22Dax Shepard?

  I was just obsessed with him after the summer and I'd be talking about him nonstop as I do. And Adam Scott, I thought, made the best point when I was talking to him about Tom Cruise. And he said, I think Tom's unique gift is he's not acting for him for like what his character would do. He's not acting for the director. He more than anybody is acting for the audience.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  He's 100% right. The international audience.

• 1:09:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So with that theory on the table, which I feel like he's right about, what is it like being in scenes with him? And can you feel that? Is it disorienting?

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  It's all positive. Here's my story of it. And he would not like that I was telling this, not for any other reason, because he didn't want to do this, because he thought it was disrespectful. But I begged him to, because I didn't. So when you work with him, he does have it all figured out in his head. He knows exactly how it's supposed to go, and how it's going to be received, and how we could get there. And so we would do scenes together. And for me, it was like, wow, I get to connect to the invisible with you, man. Like, I get to mix it up. But I could tell for him, he was a little bit like, it's great. It's great. And we were working out one morning, and there was a big scene where me and him are going through some tunnel. I never read the whole script.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Sorry, can I, what movie?

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  It was called The Mummy.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  So I've never seen the movie. And I never read the script, because they never had one for me. So my, my job on that was, I would get pages, and they would go, we need you Tuesday and Wednesday. I would memorize those pages. And I'd be like, why do I need to be there at 5:00? And they're like, because you're getting a prosthetic. And I'll go, why would I have a prosthetic? And they're like, because you're dead and coming back to life. And I'd go like, yeah, okay.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Good to know.

• 1:10:59Dax Shepard?

  So I guess the 5:00 AM call does make sense this morning.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  But so I knew we had a big scene, and he loves oners. We did all of our stunts. He wants everything in two shots together. So I knew how he wanted it. I knew he wanted it like this. We're gonna do a big walk and talk, turn a corner, stop and go. And I was like, I know my pace is slow. And if I'm giving my instincts, I'm looking for stuff. I'm looking at the set. Shiny objects, man. This raccoon looks. So if we're in a scene, and we're going, and I see something, I'm gonna go.

• 1:11:31Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  He doesn't want my head to do that because then the audience is gonna go, what's that?

• 1:11:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  So I said to him before we started this big day, and we had become friends by this point. So there was a lot of trust. We worked out all the time together. We flew to Africa, just me, him and Annabelle Wallace in his plane at his house, working out a lot of time with him. We buddied up, tons of bits, tons of jokes.

• 1:11:51Dax Shepard?

  He's funny.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  He's funny. On his plane, we said, let's watch a movie. And Annabelle Wallace goes, got any good Tom Cruise movies? He went through his library and goes like, you like a romantic comedy? And then we pitched, he gets the jokes. Oh, that's fantastic. Gets the jokes.

• 1:12:04Dax Shepard?

  What, do you want to fall in love with me or be scared of me?

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  He'd go, do you like military stuff? And we'd be like, yeah, but then pitch three of them. And then you really realize this man's done everything. Yeah. But we're in the workout trailer and I was like, I know this scene's gonna get hard because we're gonna do like seven takes and then he's gonna, out of respect, talk to the director. Then the director's gonna play telephone, try to explain to me, and I'm not gonna fully get it.

• 1:12:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  So I said, hey, man, can we just do something that's insane? Because it was just me and him in the trailer. I go, can you do the scene in here as both of our characters? Ah, smart. No. And I go, please. And he goes, no, because that's disrespectful. I want you to trust you. And I go, I'm working with you. It's a different thing. I'm here only because of you. Not one part of me feels sensitive. And he was like, I don't feel comfortable doing it. And I was like, I'm begging to see it. Yeah. I was like, even if it's terrible, it's comedic.

• 1:12:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  I'm just begging to see it. And he in the trailer did both.

• 1:13:01Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And what did you learn in that?

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  The pace for me was really fast, really on it. It was movement, movement, move. And I was like, oh, I never would have gotten there on my own. And when the director said, why don't we speed it up? Those kind of directions mean nothing to me. Yeah. So I'd be like, speed what up? But when I heard him do it, I could just have him in my head.

• 1:13:24Dax Shepard?

  As the tempo.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  And then once I was doing at the rhythm of which his head, then he would go like, we're getting there. So what Adam said, which is right, was he would say to me at times, you add extra words to jokes, which are very funny for English speakers, it won't translate.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  So he's like, you can't improvise that. And he goes, you're thinking about America. We got to think international for a movie like this. Nobody, when they dub over your voice is going to do that, but they have to add those words and it's going to screw it up. Oh, wow.

• 1:13:51Dax Shepard?

  Fascinating.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  And then he goes, and also when you get improvised, sometimes you talk really fast in little moments, gotta slow it down. People won't understand you.

• 1:13:58Dax Shepard?

  It's like Cirque du Soleil. I watched this segment on 60 Minutes about Cirque du Soleil. And you know, it was the most successful thing in Vegas for years, billions of dollars. And it was all because more than half the people that come to Vegas don't speak English. And it's the one show you can go to and you don't need to know anything. I was like, oh yeah, someone's thinking about that.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  The other thing about him that is kind of different than what you and I are talking about now, but in 2017 exploded my brain. He knows every single lens and how you're supposed to act for each lens and expects you to also. Oh, wow.

• 1:14:28Dax Shepard?

  That makes sense.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  So we would be there and then he would go like, we're in a tight. And I was like, right.

• 1:14:34Dax Shepard?

  Knock it down a bit.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  Yes. I'm doing facial expressions for a wide shot. Right. We're tight. You don't have to go like this. That looks insane. It's unusable. Go like this. And I was like, oh, I hadn't thought of that. My whole garage gym is based off how his is. He sets a gym a certain way. Oh, my gosh.

• 1:14:52Dax Shepard?

  So I guess what I would be fascinated with watching him work, were you at all clocking? Cause obviously he's a control freak on a level we can't even understand. Cause all of this shit works and the directors come and go and writers come and go.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  I think besides The Mummy. I think that was the only one that did that.

• 1:15:09Dax Shepard?

  It was huge. Yeah. We started watching, it was too scary. That was one of the only ones that didn't make Tom Cruise's Cruises. But I'll hit you with also, we think he needs his own theme park, Tom Cruise's Cruises, because he has enough movies.

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:20Dax Shepard?

  To have a full, great theme park.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  Has he not done this?

• 1:15:23Dax Shepard?

  He hasn't. I've been begging.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  I can connect you with his assistant, cause she just contacted me. He does the annual Christmas cake.

• 1:15:30Dax Shepard?

  What's that?

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  Every holiday, he sends everybody a Christmas cake.

• 1:15:36Dax Shepard?

  That he's ever worked with?

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:15:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  It's like a coconut cake or something? I've heard about this coconut cake. So I don't know. I just got a text after the movie. Is this your address? Delicious cake. Oh. But this fucking dude doesn't eat junk food. When we were working out one day, we did one of these like marathon sessions. We were living in London at the time and right where we were staying was a pub. And I was gonna get the cider and then I was gonna get some fries. All I was thinking about working out is when I get home or shower up, take the kids there. They'll play in that little green area, getting fucking chips. I'm gonna have two ciders. And then I go, what are you thinking about when you get home? What are you excited about? And he was like, yeah, I'm excited about this. I was like, yeah, me too. But like, what's the reward? Is it chocolate? Is it fries? What is it? And he goes, never.

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  And I go like, okay, you're so disciplined. And I kind of rolled my eyes and I go, why? And he goes, well, I just see it differently than you. He's like, I'm a Ferrari. Why would I ever put bad gasoline in? And I went like, that's a really cool way of looking at it. I don't see it that way. But I was like, but it's cool.

• 1:16:40Dax Shepard?

  It's cool.

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  It's working for him.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  But that guy sends cakes.

• 1:16:43Dax Shepard?

  He's trying to sandbag his competition.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Or he's going, it'd be really nice to eat one of these.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:49Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna vicariously eat 1,000 of them.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  He also knows he's specific. I think he knows that I'm different from other people. Other people like cake. I don't.

• 1:16:58Dax Shepard?

  What his answer should have been and what I would believe more is it's easier to never than to sometime.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:04Dax Shepard?

  He's probably a very addictive person.

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  I'm gonna tell another story.

• 1:17:07Dax Shepard?

  Yes, please.

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  Okay, because I don't think it's that.

• 1:17:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  I actually think it's the race car thing. And I hope this one's not talking out of school.

• 1:17:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  So there was a CrossFit trainer who was there with us. She was great. And there was a day where you would get to his gym. He always has a dry erase board with a message for the day.

• 1:17:25Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  Your mantra.

• 1:17:26Dax Shepard?

  God, he's on it.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  And then what the workout is. It was an AMRAP, as many rounds as possible. But it was a hard AMRAP.

• 1:17:32Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's the acronym for it.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:33Dax Shepard?

  I feel like I should know that for how often I work out.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  I think it's a CrossFit thing.

• 1:17:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  But it's as many rounds as possible in a timed thing.

• 1:17:40Dax Shepard?

  Gotcha.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  Which is a different type of workout. Cause what you could also do there, we would do three rounds. So sometimes you would go and it'd be a whole circuit. It'd be like five rounds. You'd be like, oh. Or it'd be like three rounds, you're like, ew. But AMRAP means you sprint through it.

• 1:17:54Dax Shepard?

  You're dead. Yeah, you're gonna die.

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  You just literally sprint through it. But the workout was a weird AMRAP. There was really heavy weights. There was just a lot of stuff that you're like, that's a really hard AMRAP.

• 1:18:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  And for me, because you know, when you work out with somebody in a small space, you have to be at the same pace. Because they can't wait for you.

• 1:18:14Dax Shepard?

  You're switching off.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  And he's number one. So if he's there, he's not waiting. It's his pace.

• 1:18:20Dax Shepard?

  All the time, everywhere you go.

• 1:18:21Speaker 02

  Everywhere you go. But I was like, I hate this. Because he's also so respectful. Finish your, I don't want to finish my.

• 1:18:30Dax Shepard?

  You do it.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  Just you go, man. I'm only here because of you. But so he goes, I don't know if this is an AMRAP. This should be just a circuit. And the trainer, rather than saying, okay, goes, well, it's an AMRAP. And then she goes.

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  Not me, but she was like, it's just gonna be an AMRAP. And she goes, but it's a hard one. So just think about your pace a little bit. You don't have to go insane. I took that as like, great. Let's go 70%. Tom goes, well, it's an AMRAP. Do you want three rounds or do you want AMRAP? And she goes, well, I've scheduled an AMRAP, but don't kill yourself. Uh oh. The thing starts, dude kills himself. Oh, my God. He's going so hard. I'm going so hard. I'm looking at the trainer in the, there was two guys, a physio guy, Pete, and then the main trainer. But I'm looking at Pete during it while I'm going, I'm like.

• 1:19:22Dax Shepard?

  Somebody stop us.

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, help. This isn't working. Stop it.

• 1:19:27Dax Shepard?

  We're not gonna be on set tomorrow because of this.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  I can't do this. We're going, then like weird burping. I'm like, oh my God. And you just have to dissociate. And then at a certain point with about five minutes left, we were dead and he got pissed. And he was like, it's too hard. It's not an AMRAP. And he let it out.

• 1:19:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, good.

• 1:19:48Speaker 02

  Everything he was saying, I agreed with.

• 1:19:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  When the timer went off at the end of the thing, he goes, sorry, I shouldn't have yelled, but that's not an AMRAP. And then he goes, I'm a racehorse. If you say AMRAP, I have to go as many rounds as possible, but it's too hard. And she goes, it was really actually three rounds. He left and I was like.

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, wow.

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  I actually think for him, he's like, I'm a racehorse. If you say sprint, I have to sprint. Why would I put a french fry in my body? It's not, it will make me eat more. I won't run as fast.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:26Dax Shepard?

  You didn't have to run with him at all.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:20:28Dax Shepard?

  You did.

• 1:20:28Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know if I sprinted with him or I did the sprint.

• 1:20:31Dax Shepard?

  Certainly off screen, but you didn't have any scenes where you.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  Yes, watch the first 20 minutes of the movie.

• 1:20:35Dax Shepard?

  You had to keep up with him?

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:20:37Dax Shepard?

  Was that so hard? He runs so fast.

• 1:20:39Speaker 02

  Dax, we had to run across a full thing they built in Africa to look like the Middle East. It was a U of a town. It's a true story. I get there, the first shot, they go, we have a camera down here. And he goes, we gotta be in a two shot, so you have to keep up with me.

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  So we have to run like this as things are exploding. I don't see any nets. So I think, cause he also does a lot of jokes. So I was like, here they go. Everybody's teasing the goofball. And it was like all these South African stunt guys, everyone's so cool. I was the guy they would tease, but there was no nets or wires. I said to the stunt guys, like, dude, we're gonna shoot like this. And he was like, yeah, mate. And then I go to Tom before and I go like, wait, we're really gonna shoot like this? And he goes, yeah. And I go, well, what happens if we fall? And he goes, well, don't fall.

• 1:21:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  Then they call action and that animal sprints.

• 1:21:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  So you sprint with him.

• 1:21:28Dax Shepard?

  Was his pace outrageous?

• 1:21:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Everything he does, his pace and life is outrageous. He would get there early, he would look tired. I'd be like, how'd you sleep? He'd be like, I was at it in. I was like, which one? Another one. We're writing another one. I'd be like, you're outrageous.

• 1:21:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  He's all or nothing and he's all.

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  And he's always all.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:46Dax Shepard?

  I fucking admire him. What a gift.

• 1:21:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's the best number one in the whole world.

• 1:21:51Dax Shepard?

  Well, Jake, I adore you.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  Thanks for coming. This was so fun.

• 1:21:54Dax Shepard?

  I'm so glad. I want everyone to listen to, we're here to help. And then I want everyone to keep their eyes peeled for the Dink Spring on Apple Plus.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:03Dax Shepard?

  And then the Dakota.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Joe Swanberg, we have a new movie coming out. We're gonna do the festival circuit, that'll come out. And then there's a new show on Apple.

• 1:22:11Dax Shepard?

  What's the new show?

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  The maximum pleasure guaranteed. That's with Tatiana, Jesse. That's the one I've been doing in New York.

• 1:22:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:22:18Speaker 02

  And that's been really fun.

• 1:22:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I just like you. I wish I could tell you in a stronger way.

• 1:22:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel the same way.

• 1:22:24Dax Shepard?

  You know, you feel it, right? We should hold hands one of the hikes.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:22:29Speaker 02

  But I'm back on Sunday and I'm here all December. If you want to get some hikes in.

• 1:22:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I do, I do, I do.

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  I'll reach out.

• 1:22:35Dax Shepard?

  All right, I love you.

• 1:22:36Speaker 02

  Love you too, bud.

• 1:22:36Dax Shepard?

  All right, see you soon.

• 1:22:42Dax Shepard?

  I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

• 1:22:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay, something huge happened that I doubt you know happened.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:53Dax Shepard?

  And I, I didn't notice that it happened.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:57Dax Shepard?

  Commenters called it out and then I had to go back. Just now you walked into my house.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:23:02Dax Shepard?

  And you overheard me listening to our show.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:23:05Dax Shepard?

  Which in any other circumstance is very embarrassing.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:23:08Dax Shepard?

  Right? Like, what if a friend popped by, knock, knock, knock? You're like, yeah, hold on. And you had it really playing loud so you could hear it in the shower? Wouldn't you be so humiliated?

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny you bring this up because I have a post, maybe forthcoming, or it might be out by the time that this comes out, for a brand.

• 1:23:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  And I use that as a joke.

• 1:23:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you do?

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Me listening to my own show.

• 1:23:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's great.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:33Dax Shepard?

  And you used it as a joke because it's embarrassing.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  It's embarrassing, yeah.

• 1:23:36Dax Shepard?

  Which is interesting, isn't it?

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  Well...

• 1:23:39Dax Shepard?

  Like, in some way, I could say, if a musician listened to their own song, duh. Like, they wrote the song they want to hear. That's their idea of what a beautiful sound to their ears is. They made it.

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:23:53Dax Shepard?

  Why wouldn't they want to hear it just because they made it?

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Well...

• 1:23:55Dax Shepard?

  Like, it's kind of like when I've been a little embarrassed laughing at my own jokes at like a movie premiere.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:01Dax Shepard?

  But then I go like, well, I made the joke I thought was funniest on that day. That's something I think is really funny, which is why I said it.

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  Okay, look, I think that's very pure.

• 1:24:10Dax Shepard?

  I'm feeling very defensive. As somebody who laughs at their own jokes and listens to their own show occasionally.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  Most people have a hard time.

• 1:24:18Dax Shepard?

  Non-egomaniacs.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna say most people, okay? Most people have a hard time listening back to their own voice or also, um, they criticize, like, it'd be hard for a lot of people to hear their song that they wrote and not be like, oh, I don't like that. Yeah.

• 1:24:35Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure. But let's say, like, you're Van Gogh. You do that field of wheat. That was...

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  I cover my ear.

• 1:24:43Dax Shepard?

  You covered your ear. That's good. You're getting into character.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  See, I laugh.

• 1:24:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, you're getting into character, which is what I asked.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:49Dax Shepard?

  So you're Van Gogh, and you dreamt up the most beautiful image of this wheat field.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:56Dax Shepard?

  And then you actually got that image from your head onto the canvas the exact way you imagined this fantasy.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:04Dax Shepard?

  Of course you'd want to stare at it. You were inspired by it. It was the image that you most wanted to see.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:11Dax Shepard?

  And then you've created it. So like, why wouldn't you look at it?

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  I mean, I agree with you in theory.

• 1:25:16Dax Shepard?

  For the painter. Yeah, you almost gotta go artist by artist.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Well, no, I like, if the artist did not, like, if the artist also was just staring and not unable to look away, like, I would be like, ugh.

• 1:25:29Dax Shepard?

  That's like getting caught in your own reflection. There's some myth about that.

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  We're not good at, um, parables. I think it, maybe it speaks to pure art, where you're not doing it for other people, you're doing it for yourself. So that's the nicest way to look at it.

• 1:25:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like, how about this? You, here are your two, um, binary options. The artist had this beautiful image in their head. They got it out and they just love looking at it because there's this thing they dreamt up and it's so pleasing and comforting.

• 1:25:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:58Dax Shepard?

  Versus what they really love to do is stand in the gallery and watch people look at the painting and then get this inflated sense of ego that they're impressed by you. Like, that's weirdly worse.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  Well, I just think most, and maybe this is not true at all, but in my head, most people who create, I might be projecting, are like perfectionists.

• 1:26:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  Maybe that's not true.

• 1:26:24Dax Shepard?

  I think it's whatever normal layout, distribution.

• 1:26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:29Dax Shepard?

  Of all personalities.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  I've just never, ever done anything where I think it's perfect in my entire life. So if I'm listening back or looking back or reading back or something, I, I only see the things that could be better.

• 1:26:45Dax Shepard?

  So I see that, and that's kind of my internal argument of why I do it. Because look, I feel guilty. That, well, there's a couple of things that happen where I'll listen to the show. A is like, we have a guest I'm genuinely interested in.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:57Dax Shepard?

  But I was quite busy trying to conduct this interview, and as much as I'm hearing them, I, I'm not experiencing them. As I would as an audience member.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:06Dax Shepard?

  And I want to.

• 1:27:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:07Dax Shepard?

  It's like, I love David Letterman. I'll listen to any podcast he'd ever be on.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:11Dax Shepard?

  So I do wanna now listen to him and just ignore that I'm there.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:16Dax Shepard?

  That's one motivation that'll take me there.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:19Dax Shepard?

  And then my other defense is.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  We need downloads.

• 1:27:23Dax Shepard?

  I've certainly gotten better because I listen to the show.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  Well, that I think is great. I think it's very smart for you to listen.

• 1:27:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  Um, I'd, let's, I do listen.

• 1:27:34Dax Shepard?

  You do listen, yeah, you have to.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have to listen. Um, and maybe that's also, you know, this is one of those things, it's like, it's like, did the job make you who you are, or are you good at the job because of who you were to begin with?

• 1:27:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  Um, I'm so critical.

• 1:27:52Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  And I, but I have to be.

• 1:27:55Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, you're entering at a phase of the, um, process that being critical is required.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  It's required, it's like so nitpicky.

• 1:28:05Dax Shepard?

  But you rarely will ever listen to it after.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  I mean, I.

• 1:28:08Dax Shepard?

  You just can't get through it.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  But again, no, like, sometimes I will have to for a certain reason or something, or like, oh shit, we have to go back and I have to make another edit in here. And then I am like, oh no, I wanna make another edit here, I want, I can't do it.

• 1:28:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  It's not, it's not, and it's, look, I don't have time. I'm on to the next edit. I don't know, I can't.

• 1:28:30Dax Shepard?

  Keep it moving.

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  Keep it moving. Um, anyway, what happened? What did we crack it on?

• 1:28:34Dax Shepard?

  That was a lot of, that was a long walk for the listener, I apologize. You sang. Yeah, I, I. You clocked that? Yeah, I clocked it.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:28:43Dax Shepard?

  First eight years I've been asking you to sing on here, you have refused, and the good Lord intervened.

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  For Christmas?

• 1:28:50Dax Shepard?

  The Lord intervened.

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  Wait, oh.

• 1:28:53Dax Shepard?

  Yes! You sang "I Am A C", "I Am A C".

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:28:57Dax Shepard?

  And you sang it, Bonnie. And I, that's, I went back and I listened today because I saw so many comments, I'm like, she did sing, didn't she? Or when did she sing?

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 1:29:05Dax Shepard?

  And then I listened and it's so pretty.

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:29:07Dax Shepard?

  You do a great job singing that song incorrectly, spelling Christian A I M.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  Listen, I, I um, I don't want people to think that's how I sound singing.

• 1:29:19Dax Shepard?

  They should, it sounded beautiful.

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Well, that's really nice.

• 1:29:23Dax Shepard?

  Do you want to hear it?

• 1:29:23Speaker 01

  No, I, I do not, and I.

• 1:29:28Dax Shepard?

  You didn't even know that happened.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  I sing better than that.

• 1:29:31Dax Shepard?

  We didn't know that happened.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  We didn't even know, because I don't think, that wasn't singing, that was me putting, that was me like, doing a half. That was just a rhythm.

• 1:29:39Dax Shepard?

  You could ask a seven-year-old, what just happened, if you played the clip, and go, oh, that girl sang.

• 1:29:45Dax Shepard?

  Like, even a child would know you sang.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  Oh, this is interesting, because now, I feel like, now I need people to know what my voice really sounds like.

• 1:29:52Dax Shepard?

  Right, even better, why don't you work on a song?

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  No, oh god, no.

• 1:29:57Dax Shepard?

  And then come in and sing the hell out of it.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:30:00Dax Shepard?

  Is there a song you sing in your real life, along to the radio, that you think you know? I think you know what mine is. Billy Joel, for whatever reason, I think, I can match him, for no, I mean, I'm smart enough to know that's not happening.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:30:15Dax Shepard?

  But I feel, in my body, I'm like, oh yeah, he and I have the exact same range.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, okay, I do.

• 1:30:21Dax Shepard?

  Captain Jack, we'll get you high tonight, da da da. That wasn't, I did pick my ideal moment.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  You haven't warmed up.

• 1:30:28Dax Shepard?

  I gotta hear it.

• 1:30:29Speaker 01

  You gotta, yeah, okay, so I do, this is so egotistical, oh.

• 1:30:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, great.

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:30:37Dax Shepard?

  Taylor.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  This is like, this is like when Kristen thinks she can play all the Olympic sports.

• 1:30:43Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  This is like that, where I kind of feel.

• 1:30:48Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm, like, you could be most pop stars?

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  No, it, only when there, I'm singing along, I cannot do it, if I'm just on my own singing, I get way too self-conscious.

• 1:31:00Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  But if I am, a song's playing in the car.

• 1:31:04Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  I feel I'm pretty, really, really good.

• 1:31:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't say pretty good, because I know you've, because, again, I. Objectively, your singing voice is really, truly 10x of what mine is, I'm sure. Like, if a computer analyzed it. And I'm telling you that I think I sing Billy Joel like 88% as good as him when I'm in the car.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:29Dax Shepard?

  So, you probably feel like you might even sound better if you're being really honest with the audience.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I could be a superstar.

• 1:31:39Dax Shepard?

  What am I doing in this stupid car?

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  Sometimes I'll get a little validation.

• 1:31:45Dax Shepard?

  Okay, from? Who do you sing in front of?

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Well, I'm in the car with Jess a lot.

• 1:31:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  And every now and then, and I get, I think I feel comforted because I don't think anyone can hear me.

• 1:31:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  Because you can really only hear the radio.

• 1:32:00Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  Or the, whatever, Spotify, whatever it is, whatever's playing.

• 1:32:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  And I think no one can hear me but me, but really other-

• 1:32:07Dax Shepard?

  Even passengers in the car?

• 1:32:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:32:09Dax Shepard?

  That's a crazy thought.

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  I guess I think because it's matched so perfectly.

• 1:32:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right, that's imperceptible.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:16Dax Shepard?

  You're just like, oh, there's a, there's a fifth speaker in the car.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:20Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  And every now and then-

• 1:32:22Dax Shepard?

  Jess will tell you, "You did a nice job."

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  He's just like, "Ugh." He's like mad that it's so good.

• 1:32:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow, good, that's a, that's the real compliment, if you make him mad.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  And one time, I was at a, a bar in Palm Springs, a gay bar, that plays musical theater. It's Erica's favorite bar.

• 1:32:44Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  So sometimes on 4th of July, we'll go as a pa, as the group, and, um, it's so loud in there, same situation, it's, no one could possibly hear me singing. And I guess that's not true because Ryan was like, "Oh my god, you can sing."

• 1:33:02Dax Shepard?

  Wait, you were just singing, sitting at the bar?

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  No, no, no, it's playing musical theater so loud on all the TVs.

• 1:33:09Dax Shepard?

  And you just start singing along?

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz it's everyone singing. It's just like loud and that's the point of the bar.

• 1:33:15Dax Shepard?

  Thank you. It's a sing along.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:33:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I thought you were just at the bar.

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:33:20Dax Shepard?

  It's on TV, some musical theaters playing and you're like.

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:33:23Dax Shepard?

  Oklahoma, whatever the theme song is. Oklahoma, give me an okay, Oklahoma.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  Anywho, so I got a compliment there and I felt good about it.

• 1:33:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  And, um, yeah, but if I'm on my own.

• 1:33:36Dax Shepard?

  Do you ever not trust Ryan? And I know he listens, but I, I don't mind that he hears this. Do you ever not trust Ryan? Cuz he's so nice and he's so kind. You do.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:46Dax Shepard?

  He'll say nice things to me and I'm like, God, I wanna believe that so bad, but you're so nice. I don't know if I can trust that.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:33:53Dax Shepard?

  But your nose is so small.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  Each compliment's individual.

• 1:33:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Just be aware of it, clock it.

• 1:34:01Speaker 01

  No, I don't wanna. I wanna be able to take that, okay?

• 1:34:05Dax Shepard?

  That's the right way to do it. I just, sometimes I think, he can't really think that, you know, it is just insecurity.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:34:12Dax Shepard?

  And he's so nice. Whereas like, if Eric gives you a compliment, you know he means it cuz it's terrible and he's ruined your day.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  He says the meanest compliments to me.

• 1:34:22Dax Shepard?

  But they're truly compliments. Like he's attempting and he's putting his foot in his mouth, so it doesn't go well. And then I go, now that's a genuine compliment. It hurt the person's feelings.

• 1:34:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. Um, I don't want him to ever give me any more compliments.

• 1:34:38Dax Shepard?

  Tell folks some of the compliments he's given you. And like, before you even say it, let me tell you that I know personally from Eric. He thinks you're really pretty. He does. He thinks you're really pretty and he's obsessed with your feet.

• 1:34:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:51Dax Shepard?

  So, let's just start that that's how he feels about you.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  He's never said, he's never given me any classic Eric horrible compliments about my feet. He, they're always very positive.

• 1:35:03Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh, okay.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:35:05Dax Shepard?

  He get, he lands those.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  They're regular, yeah.

• 1:35:07Dax Shepard?

  So hit us with a couple of his compliments.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  Most of his compliments are about my skin.

• 1:35:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  Which we know I, it's triggering. It's very sensitive. I.

• 1:35:18Dax Shepard?

  Literally and figuratively.

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have extremely sensitive skin and my feelings about my skin are very sensitive.

• 1:35:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:35:25Dax Shepard?

  Your skin looks great.

• 1:35:27Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:35:27Dax Shepard?

  And that's an Eric compliment, not a Ryan compliment.

• 1:35:32Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:35:38Dax Shepard?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, but you don't need a day on the calendar to give yourself permission to talk to someone. I've been in therapy for a long time and the stuff rattling around in my head always just quiets down the second I say it out loud. And it doesn't have to be some big life crisis. Maybe it's a work thing that's taking up too much space, or hard relationship moment, or just a feeling that something's off. That's enough. That's worth talking about.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  You know, I love therapy more than anything. Gets me through. Often I'll want to cancel because I'm like, I don't really have anything to talk about. And then I'll go and I have some major revelation.

• 1:36:28Dax Shepard?

  You know, I was just talking to a friend who has just started it. And I said, one of the most powerful elements of it is just hearing yourself say out loud the thing that's been ruminating in your head and how different it sounds. Once it's out into the world, you gain perspective immediately just by hearing yourself say it.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 1:36:43Dax Shepard?

  If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the US? You can still get 10% off your first month. Do yourself a favor and just try it. Future you will be grateful. Visit betterhelp.com/dax to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash DAX.

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  I don't know what to believe anymore.

• 1:37:20Dax Shepard?

  I love Ryan.

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  Ryan, listen.

• 1:37:22Dax Shepard?

  He's, he truly is the sweetest.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  He's the sweetest and he is so nice, but I've heard him to say mean things. Like, I don't think every, it's not like I think he's a bunch of bullshit.

• 1:37:32Dax Shepard?

  No, he's just so nice.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so he often will tell me like, my skin looks really nice. Um, can you believe it? It used to look so bad.

• 1:37:45Dax Shepard?

  No, no, no, no, no. There was, there was a couple very specific ones I'm thinking of. Like, you came over with makeup on, maybe?

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  Okay, this is the original one. I was in glam. It wasn't just regular makeup. I was in full glam.

• 1:37:57Dax Shepard?

  To be on camera.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, to be on camera. It didn't look how anyone should look just walking around. And he said, "Oh, my God, you look so pretty. Why don't you wear more makeup? How will you get a boyfriend if you don't wear makeup?" That's what he said. Okay, that was the original one, but he since has given me some like, really, ones that, that actually haunt me.

• 1:38:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:38:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no. Okay, then this isn't very fun. I thought this was more fun than it was. Okay.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  He, he would.

• 1:38:27Dax Shepard?

  He'll kill himself over it.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  He'll kill himself, so I can't really go there, because he does love me. I know he loves me.

• 1:38:31Dax Shepard?

  He loves you so much, and he thinks you're very pretty.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  I don't know about that, but it's okay.

• 1:38:34Dax Shepard?

  He does, he does, he does. He's told me independently, in a less clunky way. Well, you know, he gives me compliments that are like that, too. He'll go like, um, he'll go, "You're in such a good mood in Nashville over Memorial Day." And I'll go, "Oh, thank you." And then I'm like, as opposed to, like, why is this worth me? And I'll go, "Was there a period that you thought I wasn't in a good mood?" And he'll go like, "Well, you seem really stressed the week in the summertime."

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:39:03Dax Shepard?

  And so it's like, you're in such a good mood, and then I just go, "Oh, so he thought I was in a bad mood. I'm like rough to be around sometimes."

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:10Dax Shepard?

  So, yeah, he does it to me. It's just not about my looks, which would sting deeper.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  Which are really, that's, that's, that's hard. He also said, um, he said on, on Thanksgiving, our Friendsgiving, Podgiving, um, he said, "No, you should drink. You're more fun when you drink." And I was like, what? And he said, no, no, you're just like, you're less like. And I know, I know he wanted to say uptight and I, and I was like, well, do you mean like, I'm less vigilant? I'm paying attention less? Yeah, and he was like, yeah, and I'm like, yeah, you would like that.

• 1:39:51Dax Shepard?

  Right, right.

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  And then you popped in, then you said, yeah, you're just, you're just less sharp. And that was, you were trying to make it nice.

• 1:39:59Dax Shepard?

  I was trying to help, I guess.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  You were.

• 1:40:01Dax Shepard?

  Well, I didn't help.

• 1:40:02Speaker 01

  No, you did.

• 1:40:02Dax Shepard?

  Is there a way to say to somebody? Like, what if you do think someone's more fun when they drink?

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:09Dax Shepard?

  And so they're like, I don't know if I should drink, and you're like, I'd prefer you drank. How do you say that in a way that doesn't make the person feel like they're not fun when they don't drink? Because you could really just be saying you go from an A to an A plus. I mean, that could be the reality.

• 1:40:24Speaker 01

  Well, if it's an A to an A plus, then you shouldn't say anything. It's only, you should only say something if it's an F to an A plus. If it's really like, oh shit, this is like a horrible person to be around.

• 1:40:36Dax Shepard?

  You're like, I'm thinking about brushing my teeth, and they're like, you should! You're like, oh fuck, my brother always smells, and that, and they should know that. Is that an example? Say, oh shit, I gotta run upstairs and brush my teeth before we go.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, I gotta go brush my teeth before.

• 1:40:50Dax Shepard?

  Thank god, oh, great, good, good.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  I don't think I'm mentally prepared for this.

• 1:40:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I'll do it.

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna quickly go throw some deodorant on.

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, yeah. That's how I would do it.

• 1:41:08Dax Shepard?

  Okay, oh, yeah.

• 1:41:10Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, yeah.

• 1:41:12Dax Shepard?

  So I, what I, what I.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  What'd you gather?

• 1:41:15Dax Shepard?

  I gathered that you don't think I need it.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:41:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, tell me you're gonna go.

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  I'm so subtle in my act.

• 1:41:20Dax Shepard?

  Tell me you're gonna go put your, some deodorant on.

• 1:41:21Speaker 01

  Oh, you know what? I'm gonna go put some deodorant on before I, before we do this.

• 1:41:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's.

• 1:41:28Dax Shepard?

  That is, I don't think you need it.

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  Listen, I am.

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  Hypersensitive.

• 1:41:35Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:41:35Speaker 01

  To you.

• 1:41:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  I don't have to be hypersensitive to Eric because he just says stuff.

• 1:41:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  But if you said that, what you just did.

• 1:41:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  I would know.

• 1:41:47Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  I would know. I'd be like, oh.

• 1:41:50Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and vice versa. I worked with someone.

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:41:53Dax Shepard?

  And the person, I could not help but go like, what a genius fucking road they staked out for themselves.

• 1:42:02Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:42:03Dax Shepard?

  They're like, you never know when he's gonna be here.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  What's that mean?

• 1:42:07Dax Shepard?

  Like, the, the, the, just the overall vibe is like, he doesn't take anything serious. And it's, it's charming.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:42:18Dax Shepard?

  And it's kind of genius because no one's ever upset. Like, if, if this person shows up a day late for your party, you're like, this fucking guy rolled in a day. You think it's so funny.

• 1:42:28Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:42:29Dax Shepard?

  There are people that are too dumb to even know they're that way.

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:32Dax Shepard?

  And then there's a handful of people where you're like, this guy's a thousand times smarter than he's acting. And he gets away with murder because everyone has assessed him.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Dax Shepard?

  You can kind of see him jumping off on Eric. Like, Eric started this.

• 1:42:44Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:42:44Dax Shepard?

  This wonderful thing. That's the difference between how you would take something he says and what I say. Like, I've, I've kind of claimed this, oh, I'm dependable and responsible.

• 1:42:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:54Dax Shepard?

  And when I act crazy, it's uncomfortable and disruptive.

• 1:42:57Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:42:57Dax Shepard?

  And Eric leads with, I'm a, I'm a loose cannon.

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:43:02Dax Shepard?

  And so no matter, if you looked over and saw Eric naked at Thanksgiving, standing on the fucking island.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:07Dax Shepard?

  With a, putting a turkey drumstick up his ass.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:10Dax Shepard?

  You wouldn't like, wonder if he had relapsed or if he had lost his mind.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:43:17Dax Shepard?

  If Erica did that, you'd be like, oh, we gotta take her to the hospital. Really? She's had a mental collapse. So like, you build in, you build in this huge latitude of acceptance. If you just lead with it and then you, you just live with whatever the downside is.

• 1:43:32Speaker 01

  Okay, that, this is interesting. I think Eric rides the line well.

• 1:43:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, perfectly.

• 1:43:38Speaker 01

  But he, in general, that type of, not his personality, but this one you're saying like, oh, ma, because.

• 1:43:44Dax Shepard?

  This other person.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Eric is reliable.

• 1:43:47Dax Shepard?

  For sure, for sure. Yeah, I'm not attributing any of those aforementioned attributes to Eric. Only Eric's craziness.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. But like. If someone is unreliable, or like, oh, like, we'll see if they come, or

• 1:44:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  That to me is a defense mechanism of them.

• 1:44:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  A non-committal, like, a refusal to commit to people, things, anything.

• 1:44:15Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  Cause you don't wanna be then like

• 1:44:18Dax Shepard?

  Responsible.

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:44:19Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  So, I could only be very, very distant friends with someone like that. I could never really have someone like that in my life who I

• 1:44:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  like called a dear.

• 1:44:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:33Speaker 01

  And so that's the fallout. I don't know how many intimate relationships you could really, really have.

• 1:44:40Dax Shepard?

  Well, no, this, these people I'm describing, they do totally fine.

• 1:44:43Speaker 01

  They do?

• 1:44:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes, in the same way that like, but like addicts, you know, people are attracted to addicts. Why, why be attracted to addict? They're a fucking time bomb and it's a pain in the ass and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So someone who might love the goofy guy who rolls in whenever, could never date an addict.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe.

• 1:45:00Dax Shepard?

  And then you would never wanna date this unpredictable, you know?

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I mean more, it's not more

• 1:45:06Dax Shepard?

  I guess what I'm saying is there's an ass for every seat. The people, the person that I'm talking about has a lot of options.

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  Okay, but I, I don't know how fulfilling those relationships are because if he, if this person can't

• 1:45:19Dax Shepard?

  Arrive on time.

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  Decide, decide that this is important. Whatever this is.

• 1:45:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  Whether it's the person, the job, the whatever, like, that's really hard. That's a hard life. Like, you have to make some decisions about things. You have to make some

• 1:45:35Dax Shepard?

  For you and I, it'd be really hard.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:38Dax Shepard?

  And for some people, it wouldn't be hard at all.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess that's true. Speaking of Eric.

• 1:45:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, let's also say, we, there's nobody we love more than Eric.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  So much.

• 1:45:46Dax Shepard?

  Everyone in America would be so lucky to have Eric as a best friend.

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I know, we're all, we're so lucky. And that is what I'm getting at. So he, so we had secret turkey.

• 1:45:56Dax Shepard?

  Mm, mm, mm.

• 1:45:58Speaker 01

  Which is the best day of the year. It's so beautiful.

• 1:46:03Speaker 01

  It's just the most.

• 1:46:04Dax Shepard?

  Gets better.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  It gets better and better.

• 1:46:06Dax Shepard?

  I thought this year was the best one.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  And like, it just really fills my heart.

• 1:46:10Dax Shepard?

  Warms the cockles.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  It really does. Everyone just taking time out of their busy, busy, busy lives to make something for someone, and it's all so thoughtful.

• 1:46:22Dax Shepard?

  Now, can I ask a question that potentially is triggering?

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:26Dax Shepard?

  Do you think you can evaluate this year's secret turkey independent of your own gift you gave? I'm only asking because you happened to crush this year.

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:46:37Dax Shepard?

  You don't even mean to tell you that. It was unanimous in the group that you had slayed this year.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  Oh, that's really nice.

• 1:46:43Dax Shepard?

  So do you think it's possible to evaluate? Like, for me, if I crushed, I don't even know if I'd be able to evaluate how the rest of the thing went because I would just be so excited I crushed.

• 1:46:53Speaker 01

  No, I do know, I, I.

• 1:46:55Dax Shepard?

  You can do both.

• 1:46:56Speaker 01

  I just saw, like, you know, everyone came in, we did it at the Richardson's, and everyone, you know, brought their little gift in and put it on the table. I was just staring at that table like, oh my god.

• 1:47:10Dax Shepard?

  It's a physical embodiment of.

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  So much care and love, and it's all, everyone wrapped their thing. I don't know, I just, I, it's so beautiful to me. And then it was like, time for secret turkey, and everyone goes and picks up their present and like, looks so stupid, carrying their stupid present into the other room. And it's just so sweet. But yeah, so Eric had me.

• 1:47:34Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  And he got me the best gift. That's, it was so thoughtful. So on my birthday, I think we maybe talked about it on a fact check. On my birthday, Eric came wearing this like shirt, this shirt of his. It was like a family heirloom shirt.

• 1:47:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, it was his, his high school business he started, which was hauling junk away from people's houses.

• 1:48:00Speaker 01

  And it was this really cool shirt. It was yellow. It was vintage.

• 1:48:03Dax Shepard?

  Probably from 88. He's five years older than me.

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  I know. I think 87.

• 1:48:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, possible.

• 1:48:08Speaker 01

  Because I was like, that's when I was born. And I got really excited about this shirt and I asked if I could have it.

• 1:48:16Dax Shepard?

  His shirt off his back. Proverbial ask for his shirt off his back.

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  I literally asked if I could have this shirt off his back. And um, he's, it's a one, it's a one of one, there's not another.

• 1:48:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  And he said no.

• 1:48:30Dax Shepard?

  Good for him.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:48:31Dax Shepard?

  I'm actually blown away he said no.

• 1:48:33Speaker 01

  I'm shocked too.

• 1:48:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  He said no because he has to give it to his kids.

• 1:48:38Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  Now that hurt.

• 1:48:40Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:40Speaker 01

  But I had to accept it. If you say you're giving it to your kids, it's like, ugh, I guess I have to accept it.

• 1:48:46Dax Shepard?

  Kryptonite.

• 1:48:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it hurt, just like the way his compliments hurt.

• 1:48:51Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  And for Secret Turkey, he had the shirt remade for me.

• 1:48:56Dax Shepard?

  Few copies, right?

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:57Dax Shepard?

  Different colors?

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, a couple colors, couple sizes.

• 1:49:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:01Speaker 01

  So I can grow into it and it was so, so sweet.

• 1:49:04Dax Shepard?

  You should wear it on the next fact check.

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  I will.

• 1:49:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:49:06Speaker 01

  I will.

• 1:49:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  Um, it's, it was so, so sweet. And then.

• 1:49:11Dax Shepard?

  You gave though.

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  I gave.

• 1:49:13Dax Shepard?

  Our, um, Ryan.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  Yes. So on Halloween.

• 1:49:18Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I guess we have to say this.

• 1:49:20Speaker 01

  We have to. On Halloween.

• 1:49:22Dax Shepard?

  Someone ended up in our house.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  Someone ended up in your house that was new. I mean, I know how they did. It was friends of a friend.

• 1:49:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:30Speaker 01

  And um, and it was Anthony Kiedis. From Red Hot Chili Peppers.

• 1:49:36Dax Shepard?

  What was better though is he was a zombie?

• 1:49:38Speaker 01

  No, like.

• 1:49:39Dax Shepard?

  A mummy.

• 1:49:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:40Dax Shepard?

  So there's just a mummy in the house.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  And then at some point he said, can, to, to someone he was with, like, can you help me get this tape off my face, basically?

• 1:49:49Dax Shepard?

  His entire face was obscure.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then it was a big reveal. It was Anthony Kiedis and.

• 1:49:55Dax Shepard?

  It was powerful. I wasn't here for this, but it rippled.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  It rippled. I was outside, so I actually did never made contact with Anthony Kiedis. No.

• 1:50:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:50:04Speaker 05

  We ran into him early trick or treating and he was very nice to Vinnie and I had no idea until now.

• 1:50:09Dax Shepard?

  Well, how good you is.

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  You're just a nice mummy.

• 1:50:11Dax Shepard?

  He's a nice mummy.

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  But Ryan, I've never seen him react.

• 1:50:19Dax Shepard?

  And you've seen him around a lot of celebrities.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, he doesn't care. He himself is an actor. So, but he was like so starstruck and could not keep it together. And he like kept offering to take out the trash so he could walk by him and it was so cute. And he kept, he came outside and he was like, is he? Anthony Kiedis.

• 1:50:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's like, I can't, he couldn't stop thinking about the fact that he was there.

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  Yes, and then the next day, we were watching the Dodgers game and he brought up Anthony Kiedis like many, many times.

• 1:50:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  It was clear this really had an impact on him. Anyway, I made a photo album. It's a beautiful photo album. It's, I'm gonna shout it out. Artifact Uprising is the brand. Obviously, Callie told me about this because she has the best taste. And it's really, it's like printed on the paper. The pictures are printed on the like thick cardstock pages. It's beautiful. It's like bound and you can engr- whatever.

• 1:51:17Dax Shepard?

  Emboss?

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  I guess, on the front. Anyway, so I asked Amy for 20 pictures of her and Ryan.

• 1:51:26Dax Shepard?

  Their most lovey dovey cute pictures.

• 1:51:29Speaker 01

  Lovey, yes.

• 1:51:29Dax Shepard?

  Over the years.

• 1:51:30Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And I had Anthony Kiedis's face photoshopped over Amy's face on all the pictures.

• 1:51:39Dax Shepard?

  But I gotta say, even way better than that. The book is presented to him and it says the story of RNA.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  The front says R plus A and on the side it says a love story.

• 1:51:49Dax Shepard?

  A love story. So clearly, everyone in the room is like, how cute. It's a Ryan and Amy love story. A for Amy.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:51:57Dax Shepard?

  And then he opens it up and discovered it's A for Anthony.

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:52:01Dax Shepard?

  It's great. You know what's great about, not only it's great in its concept and execution, but then you also gotta factor in like Ryan, not unlike myself, has had so many bonkers looks over the years.

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:52:14Dax Shepard?

  There's also, there's also so much comedy just seeing Ryan at 16 and then 21 and then imagining him with Anthony that whole time.

• 1:52:22Speaker 01

  Yes, it's great. There's a picture of Amy and Ryan kissing and Amy's pregnant, but it's Anthony and it's fantastic.

• 1:52:31Dax Shepard?

  Like, if Ryan is listening. Hey, I think you're way better looking than me. You know that. I think you're one of the cutest guys in the world.

• 1:52:36Speaker 01

  Are you gonna give an Eric compliment?

• 1:52:38Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna say that he had a few years of his life where he looked like Guy Fieri.

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  Oh, sure. He had a haircut. He had a very specific hairstyle.

• 1:52:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:47Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:52:47Dax Shepard?

  So to see Guy Fieri wrapped around Anthony Kiedis is pretty funny.

• 1:52:52Speaker 01

  It was, it was a fun one. And, but I was scary because I didn't think it was gonna come in time. I had to reach out and I was like, and I had to say, look, we have this tradition. It's this. It's really meaningful. I don't know if you can rush it. And they're like, we're gonna try. Um, and they did it for me and it was really nice. But I had to have a backup.

• 1:53:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so you have a secondary, tertiary.

• 1:53:13Speaker 01

  So now I just own a photo album of pictures. It's like not nearly as good. It's just pictures and a photo album.

• 1:53:21Dax Shepard?

  Be a good coffee table book in one of your rooms in your new house.

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:25Dax Shepard?

  The present I gave was just fine. There was, it was fine. But the payoff ended up being really funny, which just happened, which is. Molly and Eric and I were with Larry Trilling and Jen, his wife, and we were going out to see a comedy show at Largo. And we had walked by this bong store. And in the window is this enormous penis bong.

• 1:53:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:48Dax Shepard?

  And I said to Molly, you know, you should really think about if you're ever gonna smoke weed, that might be a good starter pipe for you. So we have this long joke about this pipe and it's obnoxious and blah, blah, blah. So then we went into the theater and then I said I had to go to the bathroom. And then I went back to the bong shop and bought that penis. Yes, then. I was like, I never ever know of anything.

• 1:54:09Speaker 01

  That's fantastic. That's very thoughtful.

• 1:54:12Dax Shepard?

  Hit it in the truck. So anyways, I then decorated this huge glass penis bong. So I'm gonna back up. Often, all through COVID, we had this thing where you guys drank so much wine.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  We did.

• 1:54:24Dax Shepard?

  And I lived to go get it on the motorcycle. And everyone would time me and I was constantly trying to beat my time. But all the time I'm walking out of the store with like six bottles of wine in my hand.

• 1:54:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:32Dax Shepard?

  And it crosses my mind like, oh, would I, what if a paparazzi photo? And so of course I'm standing at the counter buying this big cock ball. And I'm like, you know, is this something that gets out or?

• 1:54:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:54:46Dax Shepard?

  So then I decorated it. Around the balls, I made it like, um, earth and grass. And I actually glued like some foliage to it. And then the, the cock, I made a big candy cane.

• 1:54:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, you made it Christmasy.

• 1:54:57Dax Shepard?

  I made it Christmasy to the point where you don't even really know what you're looking at. So anyways, the the present's fine. It would give a six, but Molly sent me a picture yesterday. The housekeeper put it arranged it with all the Christmas decorations.

• 1:55:14Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:55:15Dax Shepard?

  It was just on display with their normal Christmas decorations.

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  As it should be.

• 1:55:20Dax Shepard?

  And that made me really happy.

• 1:55:22Speaker 01

  It's kind of like the penis from from White Elephant that ended up ultimately looking like a beautiful Christmas tree.

• 1:55:31Dax Shepard?

  Yes, cock of drawers, cock of drawers it was.

• 1:55:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:35Dax Shepard?

  Dick of drawers?

• 1:55:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, dick of drawers. Anyway, yeah, no, it was great. Everyone did such a beautiful job.

• 1:55:41Dax Shepard?

  Erica made me an incredible, that game Guess Who?

• 1:55:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:55:46Dax Shepard?

  Uh, if you've not played it, you like get to give clues like this person would have fallen down after lunch. And you pick a nerd, I don't know. Uh, and she made it with all special people from my world.

• 1:55:57Speaker 01

  I know, it's so lovely.

• 1:55:58Dax Shepard?

  A lot of work too, because she had to, she doesn't know everyone I'm so close to.

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  She got like Penae.

• 1:56:04Dax Shepard?

  Yes, all childhood.

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:56:06Dax Shepard?

  New, my friend Newman from Detroit. I don't know how the hell she found out about Newman.

• 1:56:10Speaker 01

  She asked Aaron.

• 1:56:11Dax Shepard?

  She must have talked to Aaron, yeah.

• 1:56:13Speaker 01

  That's so sweet, yeah. But this is what.

• 1:56:15Dax Shepard?

  But that's so thoughtful. Like someone took the time to find out my closest friends from my whole life.

• 1:56:20Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:56:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's beautiful.

• 1:56:22Speaker 01

  It's a lovely thing. I would encourage people to get into secret turkey.

• 1:56:26Dax Shepard?

  I think Lily should start a business where she like, um, comes in and eventizes and makes things like really memorable for your party.

• 1:56:33Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:56:34Dax Shepard?

  I think that'd be a cool business.

• 1:56:35Speaker 01

  I agree. Um, okay, uh, real quick, I'm gonna give one present idea. I think a great thing to get somebody who cooks.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Is a cookbook. There's multiple options here. But I mean, I'm obviously gonna recommend Alison Roman's new cookbook. It just came out. It's called Something From Nothing. It's beautiful and delicious. And all's or you could go the route of finding out their favorite restaurant. And often restaurants have their own cookbook. A lot of restaurants do. Or like, you know, their favorite restaurant in New York might have a cookbook or something. Get that and then you pair that. I'm into pairings. Okay, so you pair your cookbook with either, depending on your budget, a um, nice like La Crusée pan or pot or stabe.

• 1:57:35Dax Shepard?

  I got Kristen a wicked La Crusée.

• 1:57:37Speaker 01

  Oh, cute.

• 1:57:38Dax Shepard?

  And I wouldn't normally be saying that out loud, but it got shipped to Nashville and she unwrapped it.

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  Oh, so she got it early. Yeah, like a La Crusée or a um, stabe. Beautiful cookware. Or I also like this idea. There's a company called Francis May. It's a store in Portland. And they have ornaments on their site that are so cute. They have like a Parmesan cheese rind or a pomodoro sauce. There's like food ornaments that are very, very, very cute. So I think you could get that and pair it with your cookbook.

• 1:58:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  And that's a great gift.

• 1:58:14Dax Shepard?

  Great, I love it. And on this topic, Monica.

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:58:18Dax Shepard?

  I would like to tell everyone about a wonderful thing we're participating in this year. So Amazon has this incredible thing called Forgiving Tuesday, right?

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:28Dax Shepard?

  And uh, it's for the holidays and they asked if we want to be involved. And I very much wanted to be involved because the Covenant House, which has a mission to help youth and young families uh, throughout the holiday season. Amazon has created a charity list where you can purchase items that the Covenant House has specifically requested. And the best part is everything you get gets shipped directly to them. And there are multiple different people participating. Cynthia Revo's doing it. She has her, everyone gets to pick a charity. So um, mine is Covenant House and I would love. For everyone who's inclined to to go participate. And if you want to help, what you can do is go to amazon.com slash holiday giving to learn more about Amazon's holiday giving campaign.

• 1:59:10Dax Shepard?

  And how you can participate every gift, no matter how small can make a real difference in someone's life. So yes, just go to amazon.com slash holiday giving to learn more. And if you're interested in covenant house, they're active 24 seven and 34 cities across five countries. And they're just a wonderful group to.

• 1:59:27Speaker 01

  I love this. I'm going to participate.

• 1:59:29Dax Shepard?

  Please participate and anyone who's inclined to and has a little extra go there and send some real essentials to the covenant house. And that would be great.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  All right. Let's do some facts.

• 1:59:39Dax Shepard?

  Let's do some facts.

• 1:59:40Speaker 01

  Okay, Jake. Oh.

• 1:59:43Dax Shepard?

  What JJ?

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  Wait, this is creeps.

• 1:59:47Dax Shepard?

  What happened?

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  This is definitely that my computer is listening.

• 1:59:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:59:51Speaker 01

  Cause I typed in, oh no, nevermind.

• 1:59:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's not listening.

• 1:59:56Speaker 01

  It's not listening. You can't hear anything. Okay, there's a cake. This is the only fact we have for today.

• 2:00:03Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise cake.

• 2:00:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, the cake he gives out for Christmas.

• 2:00:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:08Speaker 01

  And I've heard about this before. This is like lore.

• 2:00:12Dax Shepard?

  Legendary cake.

• 2:00:13Speaker 01

  A goal in life is to eat this cake.

• 2:00:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, is to eat it?

• 2:00:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:17Dax Shepard?

  That should be easy. Just ask Jake when he gets sent it this Christmas.

• 2:00:21Speaker 01

  I don't want to eat Jake's cake.

• 2:00:23Dax Shepard?

  Why?

• 2:00:24Speaker 01

  Because that's his cake. No, that's his cake for him to eat with his family.

• 2:00:29Dax Shepard?

  You're saying you have to, you're only going to eat one when he sends you one? Oh, that's, that's not.

• 2:00:34Speaker 01

  That's a goal. Why can't that be a goal?

• 2:00:37Dax Shepard?

  Well, those are two different goals. That just sounds like a goal of getting a present from Tom Cruise. And then another goal should be, I want to try this cake he sends to everybody.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  Both.

• 2:00:46Dax Shepard?

  It could be both.

• 2:00:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:48Dax Shepard?

  But you might deny yourself half of the riddle, which would be enjoyable, which is tasting this famous cake.

• 2:00:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:55Dax Shepard?

  If you're holding out to become friends with Tom.

• 2:00:58Speaker 01

  I don't need to be friends with him.

• 2:00:59Dax Shepard?

  I think you gotta be friends with him to receive a cake from him.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  I don't know. Maybe.

• 2:01:03Dax Shepard?

  It's not like everyone he shakes hands with, he sends this cake to.

• 2:01:05Speaker 01

  Maybe he wants to send me this cake.

• 2:01:08Dax Shepard?

  Should I reach out to, I just got a, a contact for someone in his world.

• 2:01:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:13Dax Shepard?

  To beg him to come on the show.

• 2:01:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:15Dax Shepard?

  Should I send a request for the cake?

• 2:01:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:01:17Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 2:01:17Speaker 01

  Only if he comes on.

• 2:01:19Dax Shepard?

  Well, I will say if he doesn't, if he doesn't want to come on, I understand. Can I still have one of the cakes?

• 2:01:25Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:01:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And then that kind of satisfies your criteria.

• 2:01:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true. Yes, he is sent.

• 2:01:34Dax Shepard?

  To us.

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. White, it's a white chocolate coconut bundt cake. And apparently, oh, and it's from a bakery in Woodland Hills called Doan. Doan's or?

• 2:01:48Dax Shepard?

  D O A N.

• 2:01:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you know it?

• 2:01:50Dax Shepard?

  No, I saw on the image that Rob just put up, I saw Doan's.

• 2:01:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he sends it to a long list of celebrity friends.

• 2:02:01Dax Shepard?

  I wonder how many it is at this point. I mean, I feel like it's a thousand cakes.

• 2:02:06Speaker 01

  Can you imagine Doan, who owns this bakery is like, okay.

• 2:02:11Dax Shepard?

  Tom's orders coming up. But you know how you're feeling, Fry? They like, they have to deal with Tom's. So that's my question is, what are the logistics of this? Cause you can't bake a thousand cakes in one morning unless they have the biggest factory in California.

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:02:30Dax Shepard?

  Which they don't.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:02:31Dax Shepard?

  So are they making them, you know, who gets the one they had? They have to start making them probably five days ahead of time, right? Are they making 200 a day?

• 2:02:42Dax Shepard?

  So someone's getting one that was five days old and someone's getting one that's a few hours old.

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  Well.

• 2:02:47Dax Shepard?

  And I wonder if he has a flowing chart of priority.

• 2:02:51Speaker 01

  No, no, I bet he gives the list with some advance.

• 2:02:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:56Speaker 01

  And then it's like for two weeks.

• 2:02:59Dax Shepard?

  They arrive daily. Okay, they don't all have to drop.

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:03Dax Shepard?

  Nine AM, Tom's, look at not, you'll hear a knock at your door.

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:08Dax Shepard?

  All thousand people at nine AM and when you open it, they'll be holding a steamy cake.

• 2:03:13Speaker 01

  It's like getting into college when you know it's like nine AM, you gotta check and see if you got in. It's like that. It's nine AM on December 20th. If your door is knocked, you got a cake.

• 2:03:25Dax Shepard?

  Should there be a whole movie about Tom Cruise's cakes? Cause that's like ticking time clock. It's got all the ingredients, pun intended.

• 2:03:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:03:33Dax Shepard?

  For a great, high stress.

• 2:03:37Speaker 01

  Doc.

• 2:03:38Dax Shepard?

  Just, oh, Doc would be nice.

• 2:03:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:41Dax Shepard?

  I was thinking something fictionalized.

• 2:03:43Speaker 01

  Can we make it so that we definitely get him? Then we definitely.

• 2:03:46Dax Shepard?

  The ones that fall, because they got, they have to account for like 4% failure rate. So they're probably making a hundred.

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  Bunk cakes can collapse.

• 2:03:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so they're making probably a thousand fifty of them.

• 2:03:58Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:03:59Dax Shepard?

  In anticipation of droppage, leakage.

• 2:04:04Speaker 01

  How many people do we think we know who's had it? Obviously Jake.

• 2:04:08Dax Shepard?

  Five Jake. I feel like Kimmel has to receive one.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah.

• 2:04:14Dax Shepard?

  Right?

• 2:04:15Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 2:04:16Dax Shepard?

  I guess anyone we know who's done a movie.

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  I guess everyone.

• 2:04:18Dax Shepard?

  We should have asked Billy Crudup if he received a cake.

• 2:04:22Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:04:22Dax Shepard?

  Maybe not because of that cue card situation.

• 2:04:25Speaker 01

  Exactly. Okay, this is a good test.

• 2:04:27Dax Shepard?

  Yes, who gets the cake and who doesn't?

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:29Speaker 05

  My friend said they'd come the first week of December.

• 2:04:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:04:33Speaker 01

  So throughout the week, they're going out.

• 2:04:36Dax Shepard?

  First week of December, I'd like to see that push a little closer to Christmas.

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  No, but it's kind of nice. It's like December, it's starting, my cake is here. I'm in the mood, I'm in the season, tis the season. Oh, um, all right, well, that cake makes me hungry.

• 2:04:51Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 2:04:51Speaker 01

  And that's our only.

• 2:04:52Dax Shepard?

  Emily Blunt cake.

• 2:04:53Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a cute for, for, um.

• 2:04:56Dax Shepard?

  She gets one for sure.

• 2:04:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's good for our Halloween mashup.

• 2:05:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:02Speaker 01

  Emily Blunt cake.

• 2:05:03Dax Shepard?

  Emily Blunt cake.

• 2:05:04Speaker 01

  All right, that's it for Jake.

• 2:05:05Dax Shepard?

  That was everything.

• 2:05:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay, that's the name of the cake. You could order this cake from there.

• 2:05:11Speaker 05

  It's on Goldbelly too, which means anyone can order it.

• 2:05:16Speaker 01

  Anyone can get it. That's so, that's why we're saying it, but I, I bet the last, the last couple of weeks of November, early December, you're not going to be able to get it. There's quote, sold out because of Tom.

• 2:05:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you gotta get that order in June probably.

• 2:05:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, anyway, let us know if you buy it.

• 2:05:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, tells how it tastes.

• 2:05:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:36Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 2:05:36Speaker 01

  Okay, bye.

• 2:05:36Dax Shepard?

  Love you.