EXCLUSIVE: Quantum’s SpaceX Moment? Ashlee Vance on PsiQuantum’s Moonshot

EXCLUSIVE: Quantum’s SpaceX Moment? Ashlee Vance on PsiQuantum’s Moonshot Core Memory creator, Silicon Valley’s Science Expert, & once–quantum skeptic Ashlee Vance https://x.com/ashleevance⁠ sits down with PsiQuantum’s Co-Founder & CSO Pete Shadbolt https://www.linkedin.com/in/pete-shadbolt-4b7541126/ for a candid, wide-ranging conversation. After touring PsiQuantum’s secretive labs—more than five years after first covering the company—Ashlee found his skepticism shaken, likening PsiQuantum’s ongoing uphill climb to SpaceX’s decade-long, near-death march toward liftoff. Pete reveals why mission, mindset, and his mantra “always be impressive” are non-negotiables for a team attempting a moonshot that may take years to fully realize. If PsiQuantum succeeds, this may be remembered as the conversation where skeptics began to believe. 1. Pete Shadbolt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pete-shadbolt-4b7541126/ 2. Ashlee Vance: https://x.com/ashleevance 3. Molly O’Shea: ⁠https://x.com/MollySOShea⁠ 4. Sourcery: ⁠https://x.com/sourceryvc⁠ Brought to you by: • Brex—The modern finance platform, combining the world’s smartest corporate card with integrated expense management, banking, bill pay, & travel. As a Sourcery Listener you get: 75,000 points after spending $3,000 on Brex card(s), white-glove onboarding, $5,000 in AWS credits, $2,500 in OpenAI credits, & access to $180k+ in SaaS discounts. On top of $500 toward Brex travel, $300 in cashback, plus exclusive perks (like billboards..) visit → https://brex.com/sourcery • Turing—Turing delivers top-tier talent, data, and tools to help AI labs improve model performance—and enables enterprises to turn those models into powerful, production-ready systems. Visit: https://turing.com/sourcery • Kalshi—The largest prediction market and the only legal platform in the US where people can trade directly on the outcomes of future events: https://kalshi.com/sourcery Follow Sourcery for the latest updates! https://www.sourcery.vc/ Chapters: (00:00) Intro: Molly welcomes Pete & Ashlee (00:53) Ashlee’s history covering quantum since 2007 (03:11) What makes PsiQuantum different (05:11) Touring PsiQuantum labs: hardware challenges & scale (07:20) Why Ashlee trusted PsiQuantum’s story (08:43) Pete: “Come and see the wafers” (10:23) The academic → startup culture gap in quantum (13:24) Ashlee’s “mind palace” shoot in chaotic engineer’s office (16:12) How PsiQuantum keeps its team motivated for a decade-long mission (17:02) Apollo 11 as a model for focus & alignment (20:01) Pete’s management mantra: “Always be impressive” (20:25) The mud-slinging problem in quantum pitches (22:51) Hardware timelines: SpaceX as a 10–15 year lesson (24:47) Closing reflections: Quantum’s future and PsiQuantum’s place in history

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Molly O'Shea?

  So Pete, before we get to in depth with the conversation and breaking down what quantum computing is, I wanted to bring in a real expert.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Great.

• 0:10Molly O'Shea?

  Ashley, can you walk in, please?

• 0:13Speaker 02

  Guess I can.

• 0:15Molly O'Shea?

  You're not supposed to laugh.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hi Pete, hello, nice to see you again.

• 0:22Molly O'Shea?

  What do we have here?

• 0:23Speaker 02

  Well, I figured quantum computing out.

• 0:27Speaker 02

  I know you guys are anti chandelier.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  This is where Sia.

• 0:33Molly O'Shea?

  Sia?

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, nice.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  She has a chandelier.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  But the rest, I think, is pretty self exploitative.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  You got to be sure.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  I went deep.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Banking system equals over.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Weather solved.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  Not weather, not weather. Weather's chaotic.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Does it make sense?

• 0:52Molly O'Shea?

  It makes sense. Ashley, because you are a expert, you've been covering this since, I think, two thousand and seven. I looked back.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 1:00Molly O'Shea?

  I read the receipts. You wrote a piece on D Wave. Can you explain to us, maybe like ChatGPT?

• 1:09Speaker 02

  No, you're gonna do it.

• 1:11Molly O'Shea?

  Where is quantum computing today?

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Oh, that was better than where I thought it was gonna go.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Well, we're at this interesting spot. I mean, I, I had the pleasure of hanging out with Pete for a couple of days, going through SciQuantum's various facilities and, and I mean, one thing we talked about was that

• 1:34Speaker 02

  it used to be just like total science experiment across the board. All these things had come out of these university labs and then gotten some venture capital money. And it was like, take your experiment and see if it's, if it's real. And things like making qubits were, started off quite, until pretty recently, it was like a rare achievement that somebody would be like, we made a qubit, now we made two, we made four, and, and it was just going like that for many years. Now it seems like just about everybody can make qubits, they can make quite a few of them. You're kind of at this point where definitely seeing progress, right? In this thing that feels unattainable, which is like these basic building blocks, people seem to know how to make.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  It moved out of the university into, into startup land. And then still, though, at that very expensive, exotic.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Does this work, does it not, kind of state? And then the other thing I find challenging about this field is that there's different ways you can go at quantum computing, depending on how you're making your qubits. And whoever you talk to will tell you that their way is the best and the other one is for sure flawed. And then you're sitting with all these very smart, well-funded people. And so you're, I'm always left like, okay, either some portion of these people are really bad decision makers and you don't fully, I don't know fully which, which one that is. And so, anyway, I feel like lots of progress, but still quite confusing.

• 3:10Molly O'Shea?

  So what makes SciQuantum different? I know your point of view kind of changed after you guys did a piece together.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, so I wrote the first piece ever on SciQuantum five, five years ago.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Something like that, yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  So in like, in that moment, I would say SciQuantum was a, it was like a, not like fully theoretical, but an idea, right, of where they wanted to go, which was, the idea's been consistent since the beginning. It was that, we mentioned, people can make qubits. Some people wanted to get to like 64 qubits, 128 qubits, and that felt like progress. Like since the beginning, SciQuantum, like, we're gonna make a million qubits and that is the quantity of qubits you need to do useful work. There's this weird thing with quantum computing where you have to use all these funky software techniques to do this error correction stuff. And so if you have a million qubits, it comes down to about like a thousand are, are really,

• 4:08Speaker 02

  really useful for what you're trying to do. And, and so it was just the scale, right? Like since the beginning, they were trying to build a much bigger quantum computer than anybody else. And it was always going to be expensive. It was going to require basically inventing like at least partial fields of computing and networking to get there. And I would just say, um, over those five years since I first wrote about them and then went to go see all the stuff, I mean, they just made tremendous progress to do all the.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Go from like idea to prototype to proof of concept of yes, we can build all of these individual components and now we have to string them together. And then, you know, if they do build a machine of this size, it would just be much, much larger than what anyone else is doing. So if you believe what side quantum says and like what if you believe in their, what their bet is, then that should be the, it should be a machine that is just far, far ahead of what everybody else is trying to do.

• 5:11Molly O'Shea?

  What was your biggest takeaway from touring the facility?

• 5:14Speaker 02

  I mean, kind of the progress that they had made. And I think it was like a reminder, it reminded me of, I'm like a Silicon Valley history nerd, and I've been covering semiconductors for a really long time. It sort of was like harkening back, you know, to, to people doing, it's like at that edge of research and making a product and how hard some of that stuff is like Pete and I would go into a building, you know, you have to build a machine to make this one specific part of the quantum computer and that machine they're building looks like is from, I don't know, you know, from a government lab, basically.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  He's gonna go and see it tomorrow.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:54Molly O'Shea?

  Yeah.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  You'll, you'll.

• 5:55Molly O'Shea?

  Getting suited up.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  So you'll see, you know, and so it was,

• 6:01Speaker 02

  it's like how cool and dramatic all of this is in some ways and like how much work you have to do to, to get to the end. But yeah, it was just like a reminder of, I feel like Silicon Valley's roots and people still doing hard tech, deep tech stuff and what goes into that.

• 6:17Molly O'Shea?

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• 7:02Molly O'Shea?

  Companies like Scale AI, DoorDash, Service Titan, Hims, Anthropic, Flexport, Robinhood and Plaid. Trust and use Brex. Start today at brex.com/sorcery. That's B R E X dot com slash sorcery. Pete, you've worked with different journalists and different reporters and people that just document things. But what is it about Ashley's style where the, kind of like the message that he pulled through that made you want to continue working with him?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  I mean, I like that he, a little bit like DARPA. We talked earlier about DARPA, you know, not starting from a position of quantum computing is awesome, but starting from a position that quantum computing is a pain in the ass. And it has, you know, failed promises and endless confusion and all of this competitive jostling. And it's a pain in the ass and it's like failed to deliver many, many times. And it's really confusing and I'm really skeptical of it. And so, you know, I really appreciate that Ashley started from that point of view. And I think, you know, that, um, that's a battle hardened instinct from what I can tell.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  The quality of, obviously of the work and, and his team, like we knew that we could trust what Ashley was, was going to do.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  We knew that he wouldn't be singing our praises to high heaven.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  And, and, you know, I think like now we're at this stage and I'm really happy to, to hear sort of how you're like, what's, what you've taken away from, from coming to see us. We're at this stage where there's stuff that you can go and look at. And like, of course, you shouldn't believe me when I say we're gonna do this. You should come and look at it. And and this is sort of endlessly what I say to people actually out there in the world, which is just come and see, come and see the facility, come and see the data, come and see some wafers. And, you know, you, together with obviously a bunch of expertise that has also done diligence on what we're doing. You can come and get a feeling for what is the magnitude, what is the level of maturity?

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, finally, I mean, I think the secret is that, as Ashley says, he's a Silicon Valley history nerd. And that's secretly my number one reason that I was excited to have him come and visit, um, which is that, yeah, I, I mean, I'm really proud of the fact that we're making semiconductors in Silicon Valley and we're making mind boggling, weird, crazy, frightening, loud stuff that is thrilling to go and look at. And, you know, I I occasionally tell people, I don't think it's totally arrogant for me to say that we will be in the history books. Like, I feel confident that we'll get a footnote at least somewhere in the history book one day. And, uh, hopefully more than that.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  And, um, yeah, uh, to have somebody come and look at us through that lens and all of the amazing companies that that Ashley's covered. Uh, that's humbling and exciting to me. So, yeah, it was a real thrill to have him come through.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  I think that the, this is one of those fields where like most of the people doing it are start coming from academia and academics, in my experience, a lot of times are bad at starting businesses or well, there's a thing where you want everything to be perfect and you're just forever engineering. And I think when I first met the Sci-Quantum team, they all had such impressive academic pedigrees. And they were all coming from Australia and the UK and coming to Silicon Valley. And I already have like a little bit of a bias sometimes about how well like those cultures are gonna blend into doing the startup thing. And so you could have seen a scenario easily where

• 11:06Speaker 02

  You've got these science minded folks who have a bunch of capital at their disposal and you're forever engineering and like chasing the the perfect thing. I mean, it happens like all the days, whether it's chips or rockets or whatever, it's just you don't know when to stop or or when to make like the first

• 11:27Speaker 02

  vaguely feasible object to to go to the next step. And so I think there'd been this big gap of time since I had written the story and then come to see the stuff. So it was just cool to see that things were like operating in buildings and to put to put some structure around the ideas. And I think writ large, quantum computing, probably just because of where it's at in

• 11:54Speaker 02

  how long it's been around is most of these efforts are academic efforts at their roots. And I so I think everybody's probably under this challenge of like, when does yours? It's that when does it stop being a science experiment? And when does it start becoming a product? And that's such a hard decision to make. And you can spend so much money in between those two spots without getting to the finish line. And so I would say, yeah, like, I don't even think I was like skeptical when I first met you guys, because the the academic pedigree and the ideas and everything were all so clear. But I think I was probably in my head like, oh, I could see this group of people sort of having a tough time doing the Silicon Valley thing and like actually

• 12:40Speaker 02

  turning this into a useful thing. I've had a tough time. Well, I mean, it was always gonna be hard, but but yeah, I think I've seen it a bunch with like rocket companies. It's funny where you have

• 12:52Speaker 02

  you have different rocket startups trying to do ostensibly the same thing. And and a bunch of the people have similar backgrounds and maybe they've even had a few people from SpaceX that have built a rocket before. But it really is a funny thing. It's like getting from nothing to the final object. Still, even if you have sort of a roadmap is a is a very difficult thing to do. And so when you actually see you'll get to when you go to the lab, I don't, you know, you actually get to see the stuff in the room and you're like, oh, okay, this is making more sense now.

• 13:24Molly O'Shea?

  I loved how part of the interview you were, you were filming out of this like crazy house. What is that? Where did you get that?

• 13:32Speaker 02

  So it's like Pete said, I was guarded by quantum computing and, and I, I told him going in, I was like, I don't even know if I want to do this. This is, it feels like a, a quest that I don't even know. I'm, I'm always frustrated about trying to explain how this stuff works to everybody. And so I was picturing my, my headspace and then I, I just put out a tweet. Yeah, my mind palace. I was, I, I put out a, a post on X where I was like, does anyone have a, like a crazy person's office? You know, we just wanted to, I kind of wanted a backdrop that reflected my inner turmoil. And then, God bless the power of the people. Somebody was like, my dad has exactly what you're looking for.

• 14:17Molly O'Shea?

  Wait, you found this on Twitter?

• 14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was even better.

• 14:19Molly O'Shea?

  Sorry, X.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  I did. I found it on X and it ended up being a dude who spent, I might get the number wrong, but 20 plus years at Xerox PARC and was a, just a hardcore engineer. And he had collected everything. He even had, there's quantum computing books. They were just there. So it was perfect. Yeah. And he had like every laptop, you know, every hard drive ever. It was just like all stacked up. And I was talking to him and he was like, yeah, my daughter thinks there's Bitcoin on.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  I'm like, dude, which one? I'll, I'll sit here. I'll go through those. No problem. Uh, but yeah, he had this. His, his family said they had held interventions periodically to try to get him to clean the office. And then after we came and shot there, they're like, oh, maybe this was all, it's, it's a.

• 15:15Molly O'Shea?

  Gotta keep it.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  They, they viewed it a different light. Like it's a thing. You know, it's, you should, you should respect it, the chaos.

• 15:23Molly O'Shea?

  That's amazing. I love that.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. So we didn't change anything. If people see that, because it was like not a set. It was.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Just natural.

• 15:34Molly O'Shea?

  Iconic.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Natural habitat.

• 15:35Molly O'Shea?

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• 16:18Molly O'Shea?

  how do you keep your team motivated? And like, working on this for a really long time.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:25Molly O'Shea?

  We talk about insanity. We talk about like mindset with all this. But like, how do you keep your team motivated?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean,

• 16:36Speaker 01

  the gift really is just the mission, right? Like, it is such a gift to have a mission of this magnitude that is completely singular and ambiguously incredibly hard and ambiguously worth spending your life on. Like, to have that as something to organize a team around is a dream for somebody trying to do something like this. I always think about the... Actually, when I first came out here, I had an Apollo patch. My mom and dad gave me an Apollo 11 patch. It's on my rucksack. I think it sat in a drawer for years, and then I pulled it out one day and just started to get to the age where that really had significance for me.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  And I always think about Apollo 11. It's like the dream situation. Obviously, to Ashley's point, like, it hasn't been easy. It's been bloody difficult building this company over the years. You know, I've learnt a lot about semiconductor industry and so on. And you you have these situations where there's a hundred people. They're standing around some problem of extreme complexity and difficulty. And they're all fighting with each other and they're all misaligned about how to solve for it. And there's emotions and personalities and whatever else involved. And I always think about that situation in in the Apollo program, where you would have just walked those people out the front of the building. Pointed up at the moon and said, ladies and gentlemen, there is still nobody on that bastard moon.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Get your act together and and having that, you know, singular aligning goal, like the whole company is only doing one thing. Build a useful, fault tolerant, gone computer. And um. Yeah, I'm very grateful to the team members who have already spent nearly a decade in pursuit of that and are working harder than ever to to do it. Um, it's it's awesome to have lots of new people, of course, joining the company. Um, and sort of also just getting oriented around that target. But but I guess like the the the one, you know, and this is kind of where we started, like. Early on, you asked us like, how will we raise so much money? And it blows my mind that we've raised this money. It's extraordinary. It's a crazy privilege.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  My observation on this is that we, I think it is fair to say that Saquon has always been the most extreme in. Pig headedly insisting that we're just gonna go for the real thing, that we're not gonna make half measures, that we're just gonna. Stick to what we understand from the science is necessary to do useful things. And that sort of like pig headedness and insistence and singularity. Like what I what you realize after doing it for many years is that that is the rocket fuel, like that is the stuff that makes the best people. Want to come and join your company despite the fact that they could get fifteen other jobs. It makes the best investors.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Want to invest in your company. It actually rules out weaker people who want to see some half measure kind of outcome. And uh, yeah, that has been really sort of fascinating to see. How I've just become more and more and more convinced that just sticking to. What we know and the the real end goal is is good for us.

• 20:01Molly O'Shea?

  You mentioned also um one of your management principles. Do you remember that?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:08Molly O'Shea?

  Always be impressive.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Oh, no, that, yeah, that's just, I mean, yeah, just.

• 20:12Molly O'Shea?

  Well, I thought that was a really, I thought that was a really good point. It's like, so. What do you tell your team, like in presentations and everything and?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, just be, I mean, like, I, I, I'm not, I, I don't, you know, I don't have any wisdom on managing people. Uh, but uh, my, my refrain endlessly is is to be impressive, like people ask, and it's a little bit to to Ashley's thing. In quantum computing, you get all of these founders, they all show up and they all think that their way is the only way to do it and. Sling mud at everybody else, everything else is crap. Um, uh, like, you can't win that game, like, nobody wins in that game. Uh, somebody walks out of that meeting completely convinced that the photon is the right way to build the qubit. And then they'll go and meet with the ion trap people and the ion trap people will talk about nature's perfect qubit and all tall connectivity.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  And you'll walk out of that meeting saying, what was Pete even talking about with these photons is really ion is that? God's gift to quantum computing and so on and so on. And I'm sympathetic, it's terrible for people on the other side of that. Bouncing around between these various different sales pitches. Um, and so, yeah, like, like the sort of turn of people focus so intently on the turn of phrase or the. PowerPoint slide that's gonna win the deal or whatever. And I think it's more like you can tell if people are sincere and impressive and like for real. And if they've done things that they said they were gonna do. And so I try and push the team a little bit to focus more on on that way of looking at things.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Um, I'll also say, like, and actually, you might have a view on this from watching Silicon Valley for decades. I'm pretty sure people were doing the same kind of nonsense with memory technologies or with new transistor designs and stuff like that for a long time. And most of those efforts disappeared to nothing. But the good news is we got the bloody semiconductor industry out of it, or we got microelectronics out of it. And that's just, that's progress, that's the way the world works as far as I can tell.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's right, and I think.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  It's so, I mean, it's probably not totally unique to the quantum fields have all these different pitches. I mean, it's the same thing if you're talking about like DNA sequencing. It's like this method versus that method. And then, and then usually it sort of ends up where, I don't know, usually it ends up where different things kind of can fill different roles, but the one who wins the most is the closest to the general purpose machine. And that's, that's kind of the big, the big quest. And I was thinking about like the stuff you were talking about early, it seems like all the really good, the biggest things I've ever covered, they all take 10 to 12 years. I think Silicon Valley, sometimes you have this overnight sensation kind of thing where you see

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg turn up when they're 26 and they're worth a billion dollars. And I don't know, it all looks so easy sometimes. And, and especially in software, I think sometimes you could get some, something closer to like a overnight success, even though even that usually takes longer. But on the hardware side, I think everything worthwhile, even, you know, like SpaceX.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  From like 2003, you know, it took them until like 2012 to actually start looking like a real rocket company. And even then it was like they could go bankrupt at any minute if just a couple of things went wrong. And then you get to like 2016 and they start getting closer to flying their main rocket, the Falcon nine, a bit more often. And then all of a sudden you get to like 2018 and they've flipped the entire world on its head and they're flying more than all their competitors combined. And so it's just funny, these, these cycles, but you know, through that first 10, 12 years is like they could have gone under at any moment, required

• 24:16Speaker 02

  tons of money and it all looks, if you'd asked somebody in 2012, there still would have been people said, this company's ridiculous, it will never work. And they're just going to spend themselves into oblivion and nobody can make a reusable rocket. And this is all pointless. And, and those people wouldn't even just be jerks. They would like sort of have a reasonable argument to, to say all that stuff. So yeah, the hardware things are always tricky, I think.

• 24:41Molly O'Shea?

  Okay. Okay.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  It's my hardware servant.

• 24:45Molly O'Shea?

  Oh, that's a good answer. Well, Ashley, thank you for coming on and being the expert call of the day.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  It's my pleasure. I hope you enjoy your quantum journey.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Who's that addressed to? Me or Molly?

• 24:59Speaker 02

  I feel like you're always on a quantum journey.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  I'm enjoying.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, yeah.

• 25:02Molly O'Shea?

  You're on a quantum life.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:06Molly O'Shea?

  Yep.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Well, it's gotta work.

• 25:10Molly O'Shea?

  It's going to work.

• 25:13Molly O'Shea?

  Okay.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 25:14Molly O'Shea?

  All right. Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, sorcery.vc, where we deliver a once a week top deals and tech headlines email and also go deeper on our podcast interviews. Subscribe to Sorcery today and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen. Link in description to sign up.