Pod Insights How to Be a Better Human How to gossip — the right way (w/ Rachelle Hampton) About this episode What makes a story so good you HAVE to tell everyone you know? How do you hook listeners with juicy details and tantalizing conundrums? In this special live episode, recorded at On Air Fest in Brooklyn, Chris is joined by Rachelle Hampton, the new host of Normal Gossip. Chris and Rachelle talk about what she’s learned touring the country and hearing strangers share their secrets, the art of keeping (or not keeping) secrets, and how to listen closely to hear the story behind the story. Plus, audience members share wild stories of their own, including gossip about a Maine snowplow coup and a wedding throuple.
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Host: Chris Duffy (@chrisiduffy https://www.instagram.com/chrisiduffy/?hl=en | chrisduffycomedy.com https://chrisduffycomedy.com/)
Guest: Rachelle Hampton (Instagram: @heyydnae https://www.instagram.com/heyydnae/?hl=en | LinkedIn: rachelle-hampton-95355899 https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelle-hampton-95355899)
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Normal Gossip (@normalgossip https://www.instagram.com/normalgossip/?hl=en | defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast https://defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast) NEW SEASON premieres Wednesday, April 9th
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0:01 Chris Duffy? This episode is sponsored by the Natural Resources Defense Council. Here's a question this show asks a lot. What can one person actually do? Take protecting the environment. When the task feels so big, it's hard to know where to even begin. Turns out, the answer isn't doing it alone. It's teaming up with people who care as much as you do. With the help of 3 million supporters, the Natural Resources Defense Council is in court to defend ancient forests, pristine coasts, and the wildlife that depend on them. None of these places or species can be replaced. They're still here because people fought for them, in and out of court. And that fight needs your support today. Donate at N R D C dot org slash human and your gift will be matched five times.
0:49 Chris Duffy? Today's episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a new podcast from NerdWallet. You know that one friend who always finds the best travel deals, picks the right cards, and somehow ends up in first class for the price of coach? Smart Travel is like that friend, but in podcast form. They cover things like the smartest way to book flights without planning your trip around the cheapest days to fly, or the quick math for knowing when to pay with points or just swipe your card. It's like having a travel savvy tour guide right in your pocket to let you in on all the little known tips and tricks to avoid all the hassle and extra costs that make travel so much harder than it has to be. Travel smarter and spend less with help from NerdWallet. Follow Smart Travel wherever you get your podcasts.
1:34 Chris Duffy? You're listening to How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. What you're about to hear is a special live episode of our show. This was taped at the 2025 On Air Festival in Brooklyn, New York, and we recorded this in a very fancy event space at a hotel in Williamsburg that felt like it might be too cool for me to even be allowed into, but somehow they did let me in. And the result is this episode of our show. So our guest on this episode is Rachel Hampton. Rachel is the new host of Normal Gossip, which is one of my all time favorite podcasts. If you're not already familiar with it, the way Normal Gossip works is that on every episode of their show, the hosts and guests dissect a true juicy story from a real person
2:16 Chris Duffy? who's not a celebrity. So that's the normal part of Normal Gossip. And they go deep into these niche worlds and the drama in them. So some of my favorite episodes involve like the world of knitting, or the world of chair restoration, or a homeowners association. You get the idea. Rachel and her team, they're masters of the art of telling a good story, of hooking the listener, and of transforming the kind of mundane details of a regular person's life into an edge of your seat thriller. I think you're gonna love listening to Rachel talk, just because she's such a fun and enjoyable person. But I hope that you also get some real takeaways from her about how to find more excitement and connection in your life by paying really close attention,
2:57 Chris Duffy? by identifying and sharing the juicy details, and by getting excited to debrief what happens in your life with your friends and with your family. Here is our live episode at On Air Fest.
3:10 Chris Duffy? All right. Thank you all so much for being here. And Rachel, thank you so much for doing this.
3:15 Speaker 01 Of course. I'm so happy to be here in the beautiful penthouse. Look at this view.
3:20 Chris Duffy? It truly is.
3:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:22 Chris Duffy? It's a gorgeous, if you're, I assume if you're listening to this, you're not seeing this, but it's absolutely beautiful.
3:27 Speaker 01 I'm so sorry.
3:29 Chris Duffy? Well, Rachel, just to jump right into it, what have you learned about the mechanics of what makes a juicy story good? Because I feel like sometimes you think you have good gossip, and then it turns out that everyone you're telling it to is just very, very bored by it. So how do you actually tell a juicy story?
3:44 Speaker 01 I think the devil is in the details. I think so often you can have the bones of a good story, and then once you start telling it, you're like, This is every other story I've heard about an E and M couple in Brooklyn. How do I make this more interesting? And so much of it is like, oh, well, you know, the wife, she is a art critic and the husband is an architect and they met here and then you play into how their relationship came together. And so I think it's mostly about detail, context, setting. Unfortunately, the things you learned in like fourth grade English literature when you were learning how to deconstruct a story.
4:26 Chris Duffy? Are you, were you just making that up?
4:27 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
4:28 Chris Duffy? Is that a real thing?
4:28 Speaker 01 That was a lie.
4:29 Chris Duffy? Okay.
4:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:31 Speaker 01 Also lying.
4:32 Chris Duffy? Lying?
4:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:33 Chris Duffy? Well, it also seems like having the right amount of background info, right? So like E and M, don't know what that stands for, not going to be easy to follow the story.
4:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:43 Chris Duffy? If you're, if someone doesn't know what E and M stands for, what is E and M?
4:49 Speaker 01 It stands for ethical non-monogamy, which is the latest fad in Brooklyn to avoid commitment.
4:58 Chris Duffy? And so, you know, sometimes people get bogged in all of the background where they're like, let me explain the history of ethical non-monogamy.
5:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:04 Chris Duffy? And where the term comes from and why we use it. And then you actually haven't heard anything about the architect and the artist that you actually wanted to hear. But then other times they don't give you enough and so you're just clueless. One of the things that I think Normal Gossip does so well and so fun about the show is in the middle of a story, you pause and you say, how are you feeling? And then you also say like, what's going to happen next? So tell me about, those are very intentional moments in the show. Tell me about those.
5:31 Speaker 01 I mean, I think that when you have gossip, you really, really want to tell it. But I think one of the most important things about gossip is the other person who's receiving the gossip. I think that their reactions and what they bring to the story is actually what makes it sing. I think pausing to check in.
5:54 Speaker 01 And figuring out what the person you're talking to is actually interested in is really important. Where if it's the artist and the architect, if you're talking to someone who is not a creative, they don't really give a fuck about the art that's in this couple's living room. But if you know someone who knows art really well, you're like, well, they have this Basquiat, but it's kind of, I think it's a knockoff. And that says a lot about that couple. But if you said that to someone who doesn't know Basquiat is, it doesn't really matter. So it really depends on who's receiving the gossip and what is really kind of snagging on them. And then you can hone in on the details that they actually want, which makes the entire enterprise just more collaborative.
6:38 Speaker 01 I think gossip is a very collaborative sport.
6:40 Chris Duffy? See, this is also the thing that I think is fun. Like, obviously, we're in a room where a lot of these people are podcast people. This is a podcast festival, so.
6:47 Speaker 01 What?
6:49 Chris Duffy? I didn't mean to break that to you. But as a result, like, I'm sure people have thoughts about how they can use this in their own creative work. But even if you're someone who does not have a podcast of their own, they're not someone who's thinking about this as like hosting a show. I feel like this is the piece that anyone can use, which is like, pay attention to the person who you're telling a story to. What are they going to care about? What do they need to know? And then how can you hook them even more? Because for me, like, I'm a huge fan of the show. And before I listen to normal gossip episodes, often I do not care at all about some of the topic. And then afterwards, now I'm like, she had acrylic wool? Oh, my God, that's shocking behavior.
7:29 Speaker 01 Exactly.
7:30 Chris Duffy? And that's because like you get invested. Or like, when I first listened to the episode that takes place at like a kid's park, I didn't have a kid, so I had no familiarity with like the internal politics of the trampoline zones. But then you listen to that and afterwards, I'm like, I cannot believe they brought peanut butter cupcakes in.
7:47 Speaker 01 They know there's a nut allergy. Yeah, exactly.
7:50 Chris Duffy? And so you can really all of a sudden get this person hooked by taking them along, along on the journey and giving them the right little clues. Do you find that that plays out in your regular life outside of hosting the podcast now?
8:01 Speaker 01 Oh, definitely. Whenever anything happens in my life, I'm immediately thinking of how I will tell this story to the four people who I talk to the most regularly. And I'm thinking of the details that I will tell them about the event. And I will not give anyone a full view of the event because they don't need that. That's kind of boring. That's my experience. That's from my therapist. For my friends who just want the gossip, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna tell this friend who's really into crafting that they were wearing a sweater that I'm pretty sure that was, it was hand knitted, but I'm not sure where. Or I will tell a friend who's really into Shakespeare that this person kept misquoting Hamlet while we were talking and I didn't know that, so I looked it up later.
8:46 Speaker 01 So I think with each story that happens in my life, I'm on a bad date, I'm 100% thinking about like, oh, this is how my best friend is gonna hear this story and it's gonna be great.
8:59 Chris Duffy? I feel like when I think about gossip in my own life, it's often really like money or sex related stuff.
9:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:06 Chris Duffy? And I feel like you all do such a good job of getting gossip that is not just in those two categories. So how do you do that? Like on a meta level, how do you actually get gossip that's not just, and she slept with this other person and he's sleeping with the teacher or whatever it is?
9:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, we put out calls for gossip at the beginning of every season, so this season, I'm gonna try and remember what I asked for. We asked for, we did ask for sex gossip, we asked for specifically polyamory gossip, we asked for road trip gossip, mega church gossip, fandom gossip, tabletop gaming gossip, which we did get, by the way. So I do think most people's instincts, when you talk about gossip, are to think who's sleeping with who. And I think those things can be window dressing to a story because those are often the most fun dynamics to think about. But I think getting a really good setting that feels both very specific, but also
10:02 Speaker 01 very understandable from anyone's point of view is pointing people in the right direction. Sometimes they don't think they have gossip and then you're like, what's going on in your Dungeons and Dragons game? And they're like, whoa, you're right, we did lose a member of our team because they lied to us about their character sheet. And you're like, thank you, tell me more.
10:25 Chris Duffy? And how do you keep the gossip from being mean? Like, it doesn't feel like your show is ever mean spirited. So how do you keep that from being the case?
10:32 Speaker 01 I think we try to make sure every one of our characters, you could kind of understand where they're coming from in a story. I think when we receive gossip, sometimes there's very easy villains, which makes sense. When you are the protagonist of a gossip, you're like, she sucked, which is fair. But you also have to think about as the person receiving the gossip and turning it into a story, like, why did she suck? In what specific way did she suck? Is the way that she sucks understandable because of where she comes from? And you kind of build those details in where it's like, I don't want anyone, if I'm telling them gossip, I don't want anyone to be on the side of the person I'm complaining about. But when I'm writing a story for Normal Gossip, I want someone in the audience to be able to empathize
11:16 Speaker 01 with the person who is being complained about.
11:18 Chris Duffy? This is another thing that I love about the show is I feel like you clearly have a good time. Like, you're laughing and you're enjoying it. That's contagious, right? Like, I feel like there's a real, it's fun to hear other people have genuine fun. And especially when the world is full of horrible things happening. It's even more fun to be like, at least someone is having fun out there.
11:39 Speaker 01 Someone's giggling.
11:40 Chris Duffy? At least Rachel's having fun for the rest of us. How much of that do you consciously do? And how much of that do you think is just naturally coming through? Because you just love doing this.
11:51 Speaker 01 Well, I love this job. I talk about that all the time. This is my dream job. It's one of the few jobs that exists in media right now that don't require me be on Twitter or understand what Elon Musk is doing, which is just great for my brain. It's definitely very conscious as well in that I always want the guest to feel comfortable interjecting. That's actually one of, I think, the biggest technical things with the show is that with most interviews, for example, you're conscious of crosstalk. You want them to not speak over you. But in Normal Gossip, those little interjections are often the funniest moments. And so I'll often cut myself off or just make a little off-color joke or start laughing
12:36 Speaker 01 because it helps the guest warm up and feel like they can do that as well, which is really what makes it really fun. But I'm also someone, I say this all the time, I'm a hee-hee-ha-ha-ass bitch.
12:49 Speaker 01 I'm always laughing. I'm really glad that people find it contagious. Because I definitely have people, never read the Apple reviews, but so many people in my last show were like, why is she always laughing? And I was like, why do you hate fun? So it's, it's, it's a, it's a balance between being understandable and clear in speaking, but also, yeah, having fun, laughing as much as you would want someone to laugh when you tell them a funny story.
13:20 Chris Duffy? Yeah, it's also so rare that you get a good like hee hee, ha ha. You know, I think that's a great noise.
13:25 Speaker 01 I'm always hee heeing, it might come out at some point.
13:28 Chris Duffy? Uh huh. I will say as a comedian that the worst thing you can ever hear is when someone just goes, ha. Like, I actually think a single ha is the worst noise that can be made.
13:37 Speaker 01 I don't know if I could naturally make that, ha.
13:41 Chris Duffy? Yeah, ha. When you tell somebody a joke and they go, ha, that's funny. You're like, that is way worse than you saying, I hate you.
13:49 Speaker 01 You, you, you're my enemy now.
13:51 Chris Duffy? Absolutely. And I'm my own enemy. When that happens, I'm like, I'm gonna go home and absolutely look in the mirror and think, why have I done the things that I've done that got me to this place?
14:00 Speaker 01 It's time to start gossiping about that person who said ha. What was their life that led them to start saying ha? You don't even, you could just make like a hm, like you don't even have-
14:09 Chris Duffy? Oh, that's so much better. Hm is so much better.
14:11 Speaker 01 Or like, I'll do like hm hm. Like, it's, you know, you can have other little noises of amusement that signal you're not really that amused, but to say, ha?
14:20 Chris Duffy? No. And also, I mean, God bless the snort people. Like, one snort can make up for the ha lady for sure.
14:26 Speaker 01 One of my best friend's snorts, and whenever it comes out, I'm like, ha ha, got you.
14:30 Chris Duffy? It's so good. And they're always embarrassed. And you're like, don't be embarrassed. You are giving us a gift.
14:34 Speaker 01 Snort more, please.
14:35 Chris Duffy? Yes, snort more. That is, if there's one thing I could bring into the world, snort more.
14:39 Speaker 01 That's, that's the lesson of this podcast right now. Yeah.
14:43 Chris Duffy? I will say, one time I did, this room is, you know, maybe, under 100 people, is kind of an intimate room. And one time I did a comedy show in a room similar size, also fully lit, and a woman in the front row just said, hm, not for me.
14:57 Chris Duffy? I'll think about that till the day I die.
14:59 Speaker 01 Loki, iconic. Who is she?
15:03 Chris Duffy? She was a-
15:04 Speaker 01 From the front row? If one of you said that right now.
15:08 Chris Duffy? A white haired queen of the Upper West Side.
15:11 Speaker 01 My favorite kind of lady.
15:12 Chris Duffy? Absolutely.
15:17 Chris Duffy? We're going to take a quick break, but then we will be right back with more from this special live episode. Don't go anywhere.
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17:23 Chris Duffy? environmental change. In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.
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18:11 Chris Duffy? And we're back. Okay, here's a big question for you, which is, what even is gossip?
18:17 Speaker 01 It's like talking about someone when they're not there. I think is probably the easiest way to define gossip. But I feel like gossip is kind of the space in between truth and fiction.
18:33 Chris Duffy? And is there a point?
18:35 Speaker 01 To gossip?
18:35 Chris Duffy? Yeah.
18:36 Speaker 01 I think that it teaches us about how we want to be in the world. I think often when we are gossiping about people, they're doing something that we kind of disapprove of, or that we think is a little weird, or is different from the way that we live our lives. And I think that what sticks out to us in gossip often has to do with our own positionality in the world, in that if someone was just living their life the way we lived, we wouldn't gossip about them. We would just be like, that's a person. They seem fine. But when they start doing things that are notable, or in some way, I don't want to use the word deviant, in some way, in some way, different from the way that we expect
19:21 Speaker 01 someone to live their lives, I think is when we start gossiping.
19:25 Chris Duffy? People often think about gossip as a vice.
19:27 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
19:28 Chris Duffy? I think that, I'm not Putting words in your mouth to say that you think of it as a virtue. Can you talk about that?
19:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I do think being good at gossip is a virtue because there are many, many ways to be bad at gossip. I think that you can be just in gossip for malicious intent, where you are storing up information on people to deploy at your leisure, which I kind of respect, I'm not gonna lie, but I don't think I would say that's necessarily a virtue. I think being the kind of repository of gossip, being that person that everyone comes to when they want to gossip is, just means you're a good listener.
20:07 Speaker 01 But I would say largely that gossip is kind of neutral. Like, I think that gossip can just be harmless. I think it can be harmful. I think it depends on what you're using it for, what you're doing with it, what the kind of endpoint of it is. So I would say like net neutral.
20:30 Chris Duffy? Let's test it out and see if it is net neutral by getting some gossip from people here. So does anyone have a piece of gossip that they would be willing to share with us? Mm-hmm. Thank you. There's a person right here. We can give the microphone to you.
20:42 Speaker 02 My name is Kate Downey. I grew up in rural Maine. My parents still live there, very involved with the small community. The guy that plows the roads, there's one guy in the town, plows all the roads. You have to be friendly with him or he will do yours last.
20:56 Chris Duffy? Wow.
20:57 Speaker 02 And so he gets a lot of presents and invites to a lot of things. The problem is he is 78. And he's still, he won't stop because it has like given him so much power in the town. And he won't give up the town contract. And so a group of young people, like a group of the young guys who are like in their 50s and 60s,
21:20 Speaker 02 forcibly took over. Not forcibly, like, there was not violence, but they like...
21:25 Chris Duffy? A snowplow coup is, I did not, the fact that seconds into asking for gossip, we had a snowplow coup in Maine is incredible.
21:32 Speaker 02 I am so close to doing my own podcast about it, but yeah, they tricked, they basically tricked him into giving them the keys to the snowplow. And they just started plowing instead.
21:45 Speaker 01 Oh my god. I have many questions.
21:49 Chris Duffy? Yes. Also, what a fitting metaphor for the word. world we live in, an older generation holding on to perks and benefits and refusing to give up to the younger generation.
21:59 Speaker 02 And he like shouldn't be driving a car.
22:01 Speaker 01 I was, that was one of the questions. Should he be driving?
22:04 Speaker 02 No.
22:05 Speaker 01 Okay.
22:06 Speaker 02 Like, he didn't kill anyone, but like, he didn't do a good job.
22:11 Chris Duffy? My question is, if you don't give a present, you do still get your area plowed. It's just later in the plowing.
22:18 Speaker 02 It depends.
22:20 Speaker 01 I would hate to have to deal with this man, but I unfortunately do think he's an icon. When did he start? How long was his reign?
22:27 Speaker 02 So my parents have lived there since right before I was born, so 36 years.
22:31 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
22:32 Speaker 02 And it's been the same guy the whole time.
22:34 Chris Duffy? Wow. One thing that I want to know is, like, there must be, I'm assuming people aren't just handing off cash. So like, what is the hierarchy of bribes? Like, if you like, if you give him a home baked brownie, that's better than if you give him six apples. Like, what gets you to the top of the plow line?
22:52 Speaker 01 Maybe he really likes apples.
22:53 Chris Duffy? Could be an apple. I don't know.
22:54 Speaker 02 It's a really good question. My mom does these like Norwegian Christmas cookies every year and gives him like a big tin of them. And I think she also lets him hunt on our land without a permit.
23:09 Chris Duffy? The snowplow man must taste blood.
23:11 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
23:13 Speaker 02 Which is a very common thing in rural Maine of like, you can just hunt on my land, it's fine.
23:19 Speaker 01 This is a whole scheme.
23:21 Chris Duffy? Yes.
23:22 Speaker 02 It's an economy.
23:23 Chris Duffy? Blood of the plow is gonna be hard to beat. Does anyone have another specific piece of gossip that they would like to share? Mm-hmm. Back there.
23:31 Speaker 03 Okay. Hi, I'm Devonte. So one of my best friends is getting married later this year. And four months before the wedding, the person who is officiating the wedding confessed their feelings to both my best friend and their partner.
23:47 Chris Duffy? Wow, full disclosure.
23:51 Speaker 01 At the same time?
23:52 Speaker 03 At the same time.
23:53 Speaker 01 They were both there.
23:54 Speaker 03 They were both there.
23:55 Chris Duffy? In what context?
23:56 Speaker 01 How'd that conversation go?
23:58 Speaker 03 You know, pretty well, because they're now in a throuple.
24:03 Chris Duffy? I was gonna ask which one, but it was both.
24:06 Speaker 01 I was really hoping that's where this was going. Because when you said both friends, I was like, they could let this drive them apart, or...
24:16 Chris Duffy? And if you didn't know, we were recording in Brooklyn. You do now.
24:21 Chris Duffy? Wow. Okay, now, my obvious question, did they go through with the ceremony then?
24:26 Speaker 03 So, well, it hasn't happened yet.
24:28 Chris Duffy? Oh.
24:28 Speaker 03 So all of this has happened before the wedding.
24:30 Chris Duffy? Okay.
24:30 Speaker 03 The wedding is in May. Who knows? It could crash and burn.
24:35 Chris Duffy? Well, I think they should get, I think they should get another, a new officiant, and then it can just continue adding, kind of like...
24:42 Speaker 01 Is he still, is he still officiating? Or did they get someone else?
24:45 Speaker 03 So, they're still officiating. They use they/them pronouns. And I'm trying to stay as far away from it as possible, even though I'm in the bridal party.
24:55 Chris Duffy? That's a mistake, yeah?
24:55 Speaker 01 No. You gotta, you don't have to insert yourself, but you need to start doing individual dinners with all three members of this throuple, and just being so curious, so inquisitive. Just, how are you feeling? That seems really hard to handle.
25:12 Speaker 03 So...
25:12 Speaker 01 Do you need any help?
25:14 Chris Duffy? I also think that person should teach, they should be teaching a masterclass on communication, to have successfully created a throuple when they were confessing. That's absolutely best case scenario. It had to be.
25:26 Speaker 03 While they're planning a wedding.
25:28 Chris Duffy? Yes.
25:29 Speaker 03 As soon as it happened, I was like, they've been engaged for like nine months. You're waiting until like three before they actually get together to test the feelings?
25:38 Speaker 01 Did you add? Why, what, what prompted them? Also, wouldn't it be kind of iconic during the wedding if they said, "When anyone, does anyone have any objections?"
25:51 Chris Duffy? It's less of an objection and more of a proposition.
25:56 Speaker 01 Why not?
25:58 Speaker 03 Oh, man, I think I'd have to pass away right there on the spot.
26:01 Speaker 01 But what a way to die.
26:03 Speaker 03 You're right. It would be iconic, to die at someone else's wedding before they get married to a third person.
26:09 Chris Duffy? Well, I, I certainly think that we are not gonna do better than what we have done in those two pieces of gossip. Please give a round of applause to the, to those people. Fantastic work.
26:26 Chris Duffy? Okay, we're gonna take a quick break. There's a lot to digest there. We're gonna take a minute to process all that, and then we will be right back.
26:44 Chris Duffy? This episode is sponsored by ADT. It's that time of year again when life gets busy. Back to school, back to work, back to routine. When everyone is out the door and on the go, it's comforting to know your home is taken care of while you're away. ADT makes that part easy. Enjoying the little moments with friends and family is easier when you have one less thing on your mind. With their customizable systems that can be professionally installed, ADT has your home security covered. The ADT Plus app lets you access your whole system from your phone. You can arm, disarm, and even check live camera feeds. Visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT-ASAP. When every second counts, count on ADT.
27:26 Chris Duffy? This episode is sponsored by Peloton. Sometimes the world gets loud. There's always something to think about, something to check, something demanding your attention. And one of the things I love about moving is that for a little while, you can turn some of that noise down. Maybe it's a run, a walk, a hike, whatever gets you moving. You focus on the next step, your mind gets quieter, and you get a chance to be right where you are. Peloton helps you find that feeling. And now, the new Peloton Tread Flex makes the joy of running feel even more accessible. It's movable, foldable, and designed to fit easily into your space. All you need is a corner, not a home gym. Run, walk, or hike when you need to, then roll it away when you don't. With programs for every level and instructors who feel more like friends than drill sergeants, Peloton meets you where you are.
28:11 Chris Duffy? Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.
28:17 Chris Duffy? This episode is brought to you by Planet Visionaries, a podcast in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. What connects a hidden laboratory in the Amazon, giant pandas in China's mountain forests, research relating to the ocean, and communities living alongside wildlife in India? That's what you'll hear on season six of Planet Visionaries. Stories from the explorers, scientists, and conservation leaders whose work addresses research, biodiversity, and conservation issues in specific locations. Planet Visionaries, hosted by environmental advocate and professional climber Alex Honnold, brings you real stories of discovery, determination, and research and initiatives relating to environmental change.
29:01 Chris Duffy? In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.
29:13 Chris Duffy? And we're back. I feel the most acute jealousy I've ever felt in my life, that this is what you do for a living now.
29:21 Speaker 01 I can't lie. Any day I wake up and I'm like, oh, I can't believe I have to work today. I just think, Rachel, you just get to hear people's problems all day and you don't have to fix them.
29:30 Chris Duffy? It's incredible. It's a best-case scenario of being a therapist. Oh, incredible. Okay, what about like, where do you get good gossip? Like, a regular person, they're not, people aren't coming up. Where do you get it on the streets? Are you on the subway, listening in? Like, what's the best place for a regular person to hear some, some hot juicy gossip?
29:49 Speaker 01 I think walking around in the world without your headphones on is really helpful. We are lucky in that we're in New York City. And truly, if you sit on the train long enough, you will encounter some good gossip. I have been in the back of an Uber and gotten good gossip. I have been walking through the streets and heard someone say, you won't believe what happened, turned my music down and said... Tell me more. Um, so I think just being alive and awake to the world helps you uh get good gossip, but I also think going into situations with the idea of getting gossip
30:27 Speaker 01 makes you more aware of potential uh gossip that you could start observing. I think every moment is kind of full of gossip. I'm sure I'll have gossip about this event afterwards.
30:38 Chris Duffy? Oh, this event is full of gossip.
30:40 Speaker 01 Exactly.
30:41 Chris Duffy? That's for sure. Yes, absolutely. It also seems like, you know, you're a writer, and I think writers often have the very like perked up ears to to clips of little dialogue that is floating around.
30:53 Speaker 01 We're nosy bitches.
30:53 Chris Duffy? And that's the best. It's so good to do that, you know?
30:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:56 Chris Duffy? I think that idea of like not just being zoned out, or also that we have the ability to fill all of our seconds these days. Like you can be listening to a podcast and then move straight from that into like watching a video into being at home, like taking a shower, and there's never like a moment where you're just alone.
31:13 Speaker 01 Alone, yeah.
31:14 Chris Duffy? Or also like having the world intrude on you.
31:16 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
31:17 Chris Duffy? And I think that's often where like the really fun stuff happens.
31:19 Speaker 01 I think so as well. I also think being, quite frankly, alone with your thoughts helps gossip. I think that the thing, the moments that your mind keeps returning to in an interaction are often the things that are most interesting. Like, why do I keep thinking about that?
31:33 Chris Duffy? I um, I've heard sometimes uh friends who are doctors have told me that there's a, I've heard that this is called like the doorstop moment. I don't know if that's true, but that like one thing they teach you in medical school is that often if someone comes in like right at the end of the checkup, they'll go like, and one more thing. And like, that was the whole point of the checkup.
31:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:53 Chris Duffy? So they could be like, and also like, is it weird that I've been bleeding from my ears at night? And you're like, yeah, that's, I'm glad you asked about that. Um, and I think like sometimes-
32:02 Speaker 01 They must have eaten a lot of fish.
32:06 Chris Duffy? But there's like a lot of, a lot of those moments that happen like at the very end, where you think you're done and you have to like, always in an interview, the single best moments are when you're like, and the interview is done. And then they say the most interesting thing.
32:19 Speaker 01 Exactly.
32:19 Chris Duffy? So I've learned over the years, like, you gotta keep the tape rolling.
32:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think the silence is usually what, what people choose to fill the silence with says a lot.
32:29 Chris Duffy? Just a thing that you made me think of, because you were talking about like places where you hear gossip is, I feel like a lot of times if you're like in a crowded diner or a restaurant, like this morning, I, I met up with a person in a diner and we were just sitting in a totally regular diner, like midtown Manhattan diner. And in a lull in our conversation, the person next to us, a stranger, got up and was thanking the waiter. And they said, this was the best meal I've had in my entire life. And we were both like, what happened to you in your life that this was the best meal you've had? And like, those are the moments where I'm, for me, my entire trip to New York City is defined by hearing that one person say that.
33:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:08 Chris Duffy? That's why I came here is to hear that man and think like, this was just a regular diner.
33:12 Speaker 01 Do you say this to every single waitress you've ever spoken to?
33:15 Chris Duffy? It didn't even occur to me that he could be lying.
33:17 Speaker 01 Oh, he could be lying.
33:18 Chris Duffy? Oh, he said it so genuinely that I was like, I have to help you.
33:22 Speaker 01 If a man says something, probably lying.
33:24 Chris Duffy? That's true.
33:26 Chris Duffy? You have, and this is something, anyone who listens to normal gossip knows, you have deep insight into the male psyche.
33:32 Speaker 01 Working at Defector has really helped with that because it's, it's work your own, but it's also a sports media website and I know nothing about sports. I very recently learned the Chicago Bears are a bad team and my dad loves the Chicago Bears. I was like, there's no way you're spending all your time rooting for a bad team. Turns out he was. That's gossip.
33:54 Speaker 01 But working with all of these men, I'm like, wow, there's some good to be found here. And that really does help me move through the world.
34:04 Chris Duffy? That's hilarious. And also you had a moment in one of the episodes of the podcast where you Dissected what straight male friendship is in a way that I've never heard someone dissected so perfectly, that you were like, there's a lot of men out there who just, they just kind of zone out with their friends.
34:19 Speaker 01 Yes.
34:20 Chris Duffy? And then at the end, they know no facts about their life at all, but they've been hanging out for four hours and they couldn't tell you a single thing about that other person.
34:26 Speaker 01 And this is why they don't get good gossip. Whenever I am with men, I mean, it's really nice when you're going through something hard, that you can just have a dinner with two men and they won't ask you a single question about your personal life. Lowkey sleigh. But you have to ask your friends about what their love life. There are so many people I know who I'm like, so your friend, what, how does he feel about his girlfriend? They've been seeing each other for a while and he's like, couldn't fucking tell you.
34:51 Chris Duffy? Yes.
34:52 Speaker 01 And I'm like, are they getting married? And you're like, I don't know. And it's like, what are you talking about all day?
34:56 Chris Duffy? I'm being honest. This does not reflect well on me, but I know so much more about my male friends now because I know when I'm hanging out with them, I will be held accountable when I come home, that my wife will ask that question. Like, I literally am hanging out with them and I'll go, she's gonna ask how their relationship is doing.
35:15 Speaker 01 Let me ask.
35:16 Chris Duffy? I better ask, how's your relationship doing?
35:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:19 Chris Duffy? And then I find out a lot about them.
35:20 Speaker 01 Yes.
35:21 Chris Duffy? Yeah.
35:22 Speaker 01 It's really helpful.
35:23 Chris Duffy? But it's incredible.
35:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:25 Chris Duffy? That's the only reason I do it now, is because I'm like, I'm gonna have to, there's a test afterwards.
35:27 Speaker 01 You have to start at some point.
35:28 Chris Duffy? Yes.
35:29 Speaker 01 And at some point, you'll just be interested in what their, how their relationship is going.
35:32 Chris Duffy? Oh, it turns out I am interested. I just was like, it didn't even occur to me that we wouldn't just talk about like, a random online comedy sketch that we saw 15 years ago for four hours straight. What is overdone gossip wise? Like, we talked about maybe like, love and cheating is a little overdone, or what, what is the kind of gossip that you don't want to hear again? And the flip side of that, what kind of gossip should we be hunting for?
35:57 Speaker 01 Um, I'm kind of tired of toxic friendship gossip, mostly because, once you get to that point, I kind of think both people are toxic. And it can, you ever have the feeling where your friend's telling you a story, and at first you're like, yes, pop off, queen? And then she keeps going and you're like, oh. You might be the person who's wrong here. And I don't really know if I should say that right now. And that's really hard to deal with. And also it just means you're not really getting a full story because they're looking at the friendship through this such a specific lens and they're like, this person's evil. And it's like, sounds like they're just, we're hungry, but sure.
36:40 Speaker 01 So I'm kind of tired of people who are just like, I'm gonna cut my friend off. This is how I cut my friend off. And it's like, we only get so many friends in a lifetime. Work through it.
36:53 Speaker 01 And then gossip that I'm never tired of.
36:57 Speaker 01 Maybe because I'm not a parent and I don't foresee myself being one for a long time. But inter parent drama is very fascinating to me. Any drama that has to do with having to be around people you otherwise would not choose to spend your time around, so like work, family, parenting. I feel like when you're a parent, you're like, this is my kid's friend's parents, so I have to be friends with them. And you're just stuck in this situation. And I love that shit.
37:25 Chris Duffy? It is also interesting when you, I have a 14 month old, so like in that first two years of parenting, and it's really interesting that I haven't had many other times in my life where you talk to someone and you're trying to feel out what is normal for you might be like absolutely a cardinal sin for them. Where they're like, and of course, we use what kind of diapers? Reusable or disposable? What kind of wipes? And do you let your baby feed itself? Or do you feed the baby?
37:53 Speaker 01 Screen time?
37:55 Chris Duffy? And whatever you answer, you're like, one of these, you're going to hate me and one, we're gonna be friends.
37:59 Speaker 01 Yes.
38:00 Chris Duffy? So rare that you like declare an alliance in those ways and other ways.
38:03 Speaker 01 It's such a minefield and I think that's what makes it very interesting. There's a lot of politics in parenting with very innocuous questions and it's like decoding a new language.
38:13 Chris Duffy? Okay, and what is the best place for people to get gossip online? I feel like there's a lot of bad gossip online, but where do you get gossip online?
38:21 Speaker 01 I think any gossip you find online is, has to be taken with a grain of salt. Because I think so much of gossip and what makes us good is trusting the person, the gossip bearer. You trust their point of view. You trust that they're telling you the important details. So I think of gossiping online less as finding someone to tell me something and more as like, I'm gonna get 27 different perspectives of one moment and then I'm gonna figure out what I think. This is how I watch Love is Blind, basically.
38:51 Speaker 01 Where I watch the show and then I'm like, Love is Blind subreddit, Love is Blind YouTube video, breaking down what happened. Love is Blind Twitter, Love is Blind chat with my friends. And then by the end of it, I'm like, now I know how I feel about this. So I would say gossip should be found. If you're gonna go on Reddit, just, if you don't know those people, don't trust them. You can read what they say, but don't take that on board as your own. That's what I would say. Most of it's probably lies.
39:18 Chris Duffy? I mean, that's extremely good advice for just being online in general. You can read what they say, but don't trust it.
39:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, and that's fine. I think there's... Sometimes something not being true makes it more fun, but you have to know that it's not true. It's like when you know you're being delusional, you have to know you're being delusional.
39:36 Chris Duffy? And yet, if you know you're being delusional, in some ways, you're not delusional.
39:40 Speaker 01 It's active choice. It's an...
39:43 Chris Duffy? An active choice to be delusional is...
39:45 Speaker 01 Exactly.
39:45 Chris Duffy? Now, that is, I think, a perfect place to end, which is sometimes you have to actively choose to be delusional.
39:50 Speaker 01 And I do it every single day. Thank you, Chris.
39:52 Chris Duffy? Thank you, Rachel. Thank you so much for being on the show.
39:54 Speaker 01 This is so fun.
40:02 Chris Duffy? That is it for this episode of How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Rachel Hampton. The new season of Normal Gossip premieres Wednesday, April 9th. Do not miss it. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and you can find more from me, including my weekly newsletter and other projects, at ChrisDuffyComedy.com. You didn't hear this from me, but How to Be a Better Human is put together by a team filled with intricate drama and messiness. On the TED side, we've got Daniela Balarezzo, Banban Cheng, Chloé Shasha Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, Antonio Lay, and Joseph DeBryan. This episode was fascinating. checked by Julia Dickerson and Matthias Salas. For them, gossip is an incorrectly cited journal article in a bibliography. They cannot believe it.
40:46 Chris Duffy? On the PRX side, their ears perk up every single time you say something juicy. Morgan Flannery, Norgil, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thanks again to you for listening. You are the listeners. You make this show exist. Please tell everyone you know about our show. Spread the word, whisper it, shout it, write it on a bathroom wall. Share this episode with a friend or a family member who you think would enjoy it. We will be back next week with even more how to be a better human. Until then, take care and thanks for listening.
41:28 Chris Duffy? This episode is sponsored by the Natural Resources Defense Council. Here's a question this show asks a lot. What can one person actually do? Take protecting the environment. When the task feels so big, it's hard to know where to even begin. Turns out, the answer isn't doing it alone. It's teaming up with people who care as much as you do. With the help of 3 million supporters, the Natural Resources Defense Council is in court to defend ancient forests, pristine coasts, and the wildlife that depend on them. None of these places or species can be replaced. They're still here because people fought for them, in and out of court. And that fight needs your support today. Donate at N R D C dot org slash human and your gift will be matched five times.
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42:47 Speaker 04 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. Hi there, it's Adam Grant from TED's Rethinking Podcast. And this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds.
43:30 Speaker 04 It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work, they actually do it. Start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.
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