Jason Wachob On How To Build A Life, Not A Resumé

Intellectually, we all know that true happiness is not a function of material status. Nonetheless, we all catch ourselves repeating the mantra, if I only had X, then I would be happy. Nonsense. Not only can you be happy now, it's your birthright. Because the good life isn't about your bank account, it's about your lifestyle. And lifestyle is a choice. This is the subject of my wellness entrepreneur friend Jason Wachob's new book, Wellth: How I Learned To Build A Life, Not A Resumé*, which hits bookstores everywhere March 1. In addition to being a beautiful personal memoir, its about how to cultivate a lifestyle where happiness is attainable, health is paramount, work is purposeful, friendships are deep and plentiful, and daily living is about abundance and joy. But how? By redefining what it means to live successfully based upon the non-financial currency of wellbeing. As co-founder and CEO of MindBodyGreen.com, the internet's biggest online destination for all things wellness, Jason is one of the movement's most prominent, leading voices. But Jason himself was not always well. After a successful basketball career at Columbia University, he took his competitive spirit to Wall Street. Workaholism, stress and poor lifestyle habits rewarded his bank account and lionized his caricature on the walls of the famous Palm steakhouse. But happiness, personal satisfaction and well-being eluded him. Jason's faced-paced, sedentary lifestyle led to chronic back pain every surgeon said could not be resolved short of surgery. Against medical advice, Jason instead began to explore yoga, which miraculously resolved his persistent, painful condition. Amazed by the body's ability to heal itself when treated properly led to an interest in exploring other aspects of wellness, including diet, mindfulness and sustainability. The lights went on, sparking his innate entrepreneurial flair. MindBodyGreen was born, and the rest is history. I have been great friends with Jason and his wife Colleen for over six years. We have collaborated beautifully on a number of projects. And I have a sense of personal pride that we have both grown so much since our initial meeting back in 2008. He was one of my very first guests on the podcast, and today's conversation picks up where RRP 32 leaves off. Specific topics covered include: * Jason's personal journey with wellness * healing through food and lifestyle * the genesis of MBG and other content providers * how he turned MBG into a premier lifestyle media brand with 10-15 million uniques per month * how he balances start up CEO duties with personal wellness * Jason's morning routine * Jason's business & wellness mentors * current trends in wellness * the importance of practicing mindfulness * misconceptions about soul mates * why he decided to write a book * how Wellth is accessible to all * advice for entrepreneurs * and why you should always think three moves ahead I love this guy and have tremendous respect for his mission, what he has built and how he lives his life on a daily basis. Enjoy the conversation. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:04Speaker 01

  It's like focusing on small, you know, I believe in the power of small wins. Whatever you're looking to do, or you're improving in your relationship, your diet, work, you know, focus on little things, win, and move from there.

• 1:15Rich Roll?

  That's Jason Wachab, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:32Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Greetings. My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. This is the Rich Roll Podcast, where each week I sit down with a thought leader, a paradigm-breaking mind or personality across all categories of health, wellness, diet, nutrition, fitness, entrepreneurship, in the case of today's guest, mindfulness, spirituality, meditation, what else, creativity, artistry. You get the idea, right? I don't know why I always introduce it this way. You guys have been tuning in for a while. You know the deal. This is just for the new listeners, I suppose. Anyway, thank you so much for tuning in today. I greatly appreciate it. Thanks for sharing the show on social media, and of course... Huge shout out of thanks to everybody who has made a habit of always using the Amazon

• 2:16Rich Roll?

  banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. It really does help us out a lot, and I am extremely grateful. To those of you out there who have made a practice of doing this, it's been huge. So I appreciate that. You can find the banner ad on any of the podcast episode pages. It's right there, impossible to miss. So I got my buddy Jason Wachob on the show today. I love this guy. He is an entrepreneur. He is the co-founder and CEO of MindBodyGreen.com, which is the internet's biggest online wellness destination. And he's also the author of a new book that comes out this week. It's called Wealth, but it's spelled differently. It's W-E-L-L-T-H. There's the spin. Did you catch that, right?

• 2:59Rich Roll?

  I got a lot more I want to say about Jason in a second, but first.

• 3:09Rich Roll?

  So Jason and his wife Colleen have been really good friends of ours since about 2009, I think. Not that long after Jason founded MindBodyGreen.com, which really started as an online portal to aggregate user-generated blog content around all things wellness. We began collaborating on stuff when MindBodyGreen was just Jason typing away in his apartment. And what's really cool is that MindBodyGreen has now grown into this full-blown, well-established lifestyle media brand that garners about 10 to 15 million unique visitors a month, which is enormous. All the content is focused on mental, physical, emotional, and environmental

• 3:52Rich Roll?

  self and global improvement. And I think what's really cool about this narrative is that Jason and I have kind of grown together. I first started blogging on MindBodyGreen.com when nobody knew who I was, long before my first book. And to see what he's done with this company and kind of my own personal trajectory, it's really neat that we're still so connected. In fact, Julie and I just launched our third online course in conjunction with MindBodyGreen. It's called The Ultimate Guide to Conscious Relationships. I'm really excited about that. I think it's our best course yet. They just keep getting better. I'll put a link to the course in the show notes. I think it's on sale for like 30% off through the next couple of days or something like that. In any event, Jason was also one of my very first guests on the podcast. That was episode 32,

• 4:36Rich Roll?

  which is amazing. That was almost three years ago at this point. So we were due for another chat, picking up where we last left off to talk about his own journey with wellness, his path from Wall Street trader, his face forever memorialized on the wall at the Palm Steakhouse, to how he healed his chronic back pain through yoga, diet, and lifestyle, and how all of this fueled his decision to start MindBodyGreen.com. We talk about his personal entrepreneurial journey, what motivated him to become a startup entrepreneur, and how he has made an indelible mark on the new media scene with his Dumbo Brooklyn-based startup. We talk about what it took to blow through the glass ceiling on growth and scale his business to the level it enjoys now,

• 5:21Rich Roll?

  eclipsing expectations of what a web-based, health-oriented content provider can and should be. We talk about how, as this ambassador of wellness, he balances focus on his own wellness against the pressures of being a successful CEO. We talk about current trends in wellness, plus tons of entrepreneurial advice. And of course, we talk about his new book, Wellth. It's his first book. It comes out March 1st. And it's all about why "the good life," quote unquote, "the good life," is no longer just about the material and is more about lifestyle. The book is about redefining what it means to live successfully, and it offers readers this sort of new life currency to build on,

• 6:05Rich Roll?

  a non-financial currency based on well-being. And it's about how to cultivate a lifestyle where happiness is attainable, health is paramount, work is purposeful, friendships are deep and plentiful, and daily living is about abundance and joy. I love this guy. I love his book. I've got so much respect for what he has built, his mission, and just how he lives and prioritizes his life. So let's talk to him.

• 6:44Rich Roll?

  So this is called the Live Room?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  The Live Room. Eat, move, breathe, eat, move, live, breathe, love.

• 6:52Rich Roll?

  Podcast.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Saw that, we got the pictures, remember the concert, Revitalized?

• 6:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool. It's really cool. It's quite amazing. Off mic, just before we started, we were talking about how you did the podcast back in the day, OG style, like in the very beginning, I don't know what episode it was, but it was really early on, right?

• 7:11Speaker 01

  It was early.

• 7:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I shared it again recently, I can't remember, so I knew what it was like 50 or 60 or something like that, and maybe even earlier than that. And we did it in the kitchen of your apartment, right up the street here. And Mind Body Green had really developed quite a bit at that point. You were already getting, I mean, that was like two years ago, maybe, but-

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Longer than that.

• 7:33Rich Roll?

  You were, was it longer than that?

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:35Rich Roll?

  Wow. But I remember, I mean, I haven't gone back and listened to that podcast, but I, my recollection is that, you know, a lot of what we talked about had to do with the explosive growth of the company and how you kept breaking the glass ceiling on, on kind of traffic numbers and what the industry was telling you would be possible for a wellness website. And at the time, you were still in an office space that was literally the size of this, probably smaller than the room we're in right now, with all of your employees sitting at one table, and I think there were like, I don't know, eight people or something like that at the time. And I remember being amazed that the site could have such a profound impact on the world with just these eight people sitting at one table.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  They were all very big.

• 8:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, you're the biggest, right? How tall are you, 6'5"?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  6'7".

• 8:22Rich Roll?

  6'7", ah, yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's amazing. Yeah, you still tower over everybody, but now we're in your brand new offices. It's extraordinary, man. How big is this place?

• 8:32Speaker 01

  10,000 square feet.

• 8:33Rich Roll?

  That's amazing. It's amazing. It's just a couple of streets over from your former office in, in Dumbo, Brooklyn. Incredibly beautiful loft space. You gave me a tour, I think it was the weekend before you moved in.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:47Rich Roll?

  Where it was still getting built out. And now to walk in here and to see everybody working, I mean, it's incredible what you've built, man.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Thank you. We're still trying. Still a long way to go.

• 8:57Rich Roll?

  I know. So what is the, what is the current state of affairs with Mind Body Green?

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Current state of the union. So we're about 30 people now, up from eight. I went back, I looked. So we talked in May of 2013.

• 9:10Rich Roll?

  Oh, was that?

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Three years ago. Yeah. So we're about 30 people now. We hadn't launched the class business back then.

• 9:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Now we've got a robust class business. We have great courses with, with you there, obviously, you and Julie. You know, continuing to build out content. We, we've launched our Revitalize event, which is a lot of fun and great. And, you know, just, uh, still have a long way to go.

• 9:35Rich Roll?

  Explain the Revitalize event a little bit.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Sure. So the Revitalize event started two years ago. We did two, we did, uh, then two years running, we're coming up on our third year.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  It was this idea that, you know, Mind Body Green is built on community and we meet all these amazing people from all different walks of life, whether they're, you know, bestselling authors, athletes, actors, musicians, and having been to a lot of events, uh, you know, kept on thinking like, we, we know all these amazing people, like, wouldn't it be great if we got them all together? You know, wellness tends to be a small, insular world. I always think the magic happens when you pull someone from, you know, this profession who doesn't know this person and, you know, you pull an actor and then an athlete and they know, and a musician or someone interesting and they've never met before. And next thing you know, they're,

• 10:25Speaker 01

  you know, magic happens. And so that was the idea of Revitalize, to bring amazing people together and do content and live stream it and bring it to the world and just create an amazing experience. So.

• 10:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And so you've done two of these.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:36Rich Roll?

  And I had the great privilege, Julie and I had the great privilege of, of attending both of those and that they have been amazing. I mean, I think for me, you know, the biggest impact of those events has just been getting to know so many of these people in the space. That, you know, I've read, I've read their work. I've seen their video. Like, I know who they are, but I didn't know them personally. And to be able to spend a couple of days in a really intimate setting, really getting to know them, you know, outside of the rubric of what they do on a daily basis, creates an environment that allows you to bond with these people. And like, I've become friends with a lot of these people as a result.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  So Revitalize is like, they come to Revitalize, next thing you know, they're at your house.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  There's Leslie Weist, there's Ed, their richest house, they're probably not leaving.

• 11:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they've both been over. And now, well, now Chris from Grizzly Bear, from this past year's Revitalize, he's so cool, Chris Taylor.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:30Rich Roll?

  For those that are listening, he's a member of the band Grizzly Band, Grizzly Bear, and he's taken an interest in my boys and their band and their music.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 11:38Rich Roll?

  And so he's been, he's not officially producing their album, but he's mentoring them. Like, he's really giving them feedback and he helped, he came to our house and he helped set up the analog studio and told them how to do it right. And now Tyler is basically working for him a couple of days a week.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  That's awesome. I didn't know that. He's such a sweet guy. I love what's, that's when the magic happens.

• 11:58Rich Roll?

  Right. So, and that's because of you. So, thank you for that. I thank you on behalf of Analogma.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  I love it. I love it.

• 12:04Rich Roll?

  So it's been cool. But yeah, why don't we, um, why don't we take it back a little bit? Because it was three years ago, almost. We always need a superhero origin story. So, and I think it's apropos to your book, right? Because it's a big part of, of your book and the narrative that's woven through wealth. So, take us back a little bit and explain how you went from, you know, collegiate basketball player to impresario of wellness, kind of lording over this mind-body-green empire.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Sure. So, uh, it's been a, it's been a ride. It's been a, you know, a zigzagging, uh, path. Forty-one now, so been at this for a while. As you mentioned, I played basketball at Columbia, then was an equities trader for five years. Uh, you know, I think, looking back, this was the late 90s. I think most people, you know, were at Columbia. Where I went to college, you know, they either worked on a Wall Street, or if they had decent grades, maybe they went to law school. Or if they had an interest in science or medicine, they became a doctor, or maybe some people became consultants. And that was it.

• 13:11Rich Roll?

  That was it, you know, I mean, it's so different now, like the whole world of possibilities of the things that you can, you can do.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:19Rich Roll?

  It's just so, I remember going to like the recruiting office at Stanford and like looking at brochures for like Boston Consulting Group. And I was like, well, I don't even know what that is, but maybe I should interview with that, you know, like

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Nice pamphlet.

• 13:31Rich Roll?

  It just seemed, yeah, like that was, there was no internet, there was no way of like finding out that, finding out about anything beyond like what the obvious things, the obvious career paths are.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yep. So it didn't really give much thought to it, you know, I didn't come from money. And so, you know, I definitely wanted to make money and everyone I knew was doing well. Who graduated was on Wall Street. So I said, that was, you know, this seems like a good idea, you know, I was an athlete, so I liked the idea of trading. It was competitive, it was a game every day, you know, uh, so became a trader. And then I think, you know, learned pretty quickly, uh, that, you know, I, I thought that money would buy you happiness and found out very quickly it didn't. And then sort of left for this entrepreneurial journey, uh, which took a while.

• 14:14Rich Roll?

  Right. And it was preceded by another entrepreneurial journey, right? You were in the organic cookie business.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yes, I was in that after trading, you know, and it's funny, you know, running that company, uh, you know, I learned a lot about, you know, I always say mind, body, green. You know, true health is, is mind, body, green. It's one word, not three. Uh, and I learned a lot about the, the green part.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Through the cookie company, through organics, you know, pesticides, toxins, the connection to nature, why that's important.

• 14:41Rich Roll?

  I mean, what did you specifically learn? Like in the, in the, the manufacturing process of trying to produce an organic product, you realize like what has to go into that?

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Well, just like basic things were organic. What does this really mean? You know, well, there's different variations. There's, there's USDA certified, there's made with organic ingredients. I quickly learned that the, the word natural meant nothing. It's like, what do you mean natural? It doesn't mean anything? Anything can be natural? Uh, so really got educated about food and nutrition. You know, and I, I think back then my idea of, of health was, was largely around vanity. If you look good in the mirror, you, you were great. And, uh, my diet consisted of, uh, steak and martinis, you know, no carbs.

• 15:20Rich Roll?

  Well, it's six, seven, you know, you're, you're not getting fat, right? So you could just

• 15:24Speaker 01

  I can carry it better.

• 15:25Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  But you know, saw that wasn't the the solution to health and was also stressed out of my mind from flying and raising money at the worst time. And you know, six foot seven, flew over almost 150,000 miles domestic. And I had a so what happened was I had an old basketball injury in my lower back, which is exacerbated by stress and two extruded discs pressing on my sciatic nerve, excruciating pain, couldn't walk. Everyone said I needed back surgery. And one guy said, you know, yoga might help and start practicing yoga, started looking at things like stress, sleep, nutrition, the environment, things like eating more plants, inflammation, made a lot of changes in my life and then completely healed. So that's how a lot of ways Mind Body Green was born.

• 16:09Rich Roll?

  So your back is completely good now?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  I'm fine, never had surgery.

• 16:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing. Like solving that equation of food and lifestyle, you know, the caliber of your your diet and how you move your body and what that produces in your life.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:26Rich Roll?

  It's just not something that's taught that we're taught.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 16:29Rich Roll?

  You know, in fact, we're taught the opposite.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 16:32Rich Roll?

  And you have to almost experience it yourself to have this revelatory moment.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:36Rich Roll?

  Saying, oh, my goodness.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  And stress.

• 16:38Rich Roll?

  What I eat actually makes a difference.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  It's all connected, you know, just the idea, you know, one of the things also, you know, money was very tight at the time. And, you know, started to read about, you know, new age things like the chakras and saw that like lower back pain was associated with money worries. And all of a sudden, they're like, whoa, this completely makes sense here.

• 16:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And meanwhile, all your Wall Street buddies are fleeing for the hills like Jason's lost the thread.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  They've all come back.

• 17:04Rich Roll?

  Have they? Yeah. Well, yeah, because because it's that age where all that stuff starts to crop up and you kind of have to start paying attention to it.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:12Rich Roll?

  And so mine, what was the genesis of, you know, starting Mind Body Green? What was the core idea? And how did that begin?

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Sure. So it quickly occurred to me that everyone had health wrong. You know, most print magazines were about vanity and weight loss. And, you know, I quickly learned that was not real health. And the web was dominated by people Googling for symptoms and then freaking out, running to the emergency room. I was like, wait, you know, this is more nuanced. It's this blend of mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, environmental well being. It's this lifestyle, Mind Body Green. No one's talking about this. And then ran with it, you know, started with a, you know, found my, my two co-founders, Tim and Carver. They worked nights and weekends, got Colleen, my wife involved and I went all in and did one blog post a day. Colleen, you know, discovered you on Stanford magazine. Colleen's like, I want to interview this guy.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  I'm like, God, it's another Stanford swimmer. I've met these guys. She's like, no, this guy's cool.

• 18:10Rich Roll?

  How long had Mind Body Green been around?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Just a couple of years.

• 18:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was brand new.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  You were just, I've known you for like six years now.

• 18:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  2010 or 2011.

• 18:19Rich Roll?

  You were in your apartment doing this?

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, every day.

• 18:22Rich Roll?

  And, uh, and the other guys had full-time jobs too.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:24Rich Roll?

  It wasn't like.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  No, they, they, they went nights and weekends and for three years I didn't pay myself. At a very, I'll emphasize, understanding wife.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  To go in and do it, you know, it's something I talk about the book. Like, I think when you're passionate about something, you know, and I do think goals and deadlines are important, but I always say like, sometimes you're just gonna say like, I don't know when, I don't know how, but you know.

• 18:45Rich Roll?

  You gotta make the leap.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:46Rich Roll?

  When it feels right.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  It's gonna happen. And this is what I would do. It's not a cliche, like this is what I would do if I was not getting paid anything.

• 18:52Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  And I literally did it.

• 18:54Rich Roll?

  No, I remember pretty clearly, uh, I think it was Colleen initially who reached out to me and I was checking out the site. And I was like, wow, this is pretty cool. There, I, I didn't, I was like, I don't think there's anything else like this.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:06Rich Roll?

  It would be cool to write for these guys. And I think that whatever I, whatever the first thing was that got published from me, or maybe Colleen wrote it. I don't even remember specifically. Yeah, we did the interview and it got like crazy traction.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Why every guy should do yoga, why athletes should do yoga.

• 19:24Rich Roll?

  Was that the first thing?

• 19:24Speaker 01

  One of them.

• 19:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I was like, this is insane. How is he getting all this traffic? Like his SEO is unbelievable. Like, I don't know what he's doing in his bedroom, but it's working.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Neither did I.

• 19:33Rich Roll?

  I was like, I don't need to blog anywhere else. I'm just, if I'm gonna blog outside of my own website, I'll do it with Mind Body Green. And that was the beginning of our relationship.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:40Rich Roll?

  And you've blown up and grown and you know, what Julie and I are doing has grown and it's been a beautiful thing to kind of walk this path together in some ways.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  That's been so personally fulfilling and rewarding. It's like, there are people like you and Julie and Tara Stiles and Dana, like I could go on and on. Like people who I've literally met from 2010. We were both starting out and both trying to figure it out. And to see everyone grow together has just kind of been. Awesome and fun.

• 20:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And, and you really, you really hit, I mean, timing was obviously big too. I mean, you had the foresight to see that this was something important and that there was a market for this.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:15Rich Roll?

  That didn't quite exist. And the culture has kind of shifted to accommodate that in a really magical way.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:24Rich Roll?

  I mean, you've played a part in influencing culture.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:26Rich Roll?

  Because of what you do, but I think there are seismic tectonic plates that shifted at the same time.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 20:32Rich Roll?

  To make this all possible.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 20:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So what, I mean, what do you think, what do you think, what were the confluence of events you think that made all of this kind of zeitgeist right now?

• 20:44Speaker 01

  A couple of things. Uh, I think, God, you know, the success of whole food market, the success of organic, the growth of yoga, the explosion of juice bars.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  You know, and I think also.

• 21:02Rich Roll?

  By the way, wait, I'm going to stick a pin in that because I went to Joe and the Juice the other day. Have you been to that place?

• 21:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 21:08Rich Roll?

  In Manhattan?

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. I got coffee there though.

• 21:11Rich Roll?

  I was like, this is the craziest juice bar I've ever been in Soho. It's like, you go in, it's like a nightclub happening in there. Like the most beautiful people you've ever seen and they're cranking music and everybody's dancing.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:22Rich Roll?

  I'm like, this is, I'm, I just want to get a green juice.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 21:25Rich Roll?

  So, and I, and it made me reflect on exactly what you just said, which is like, wow, it's come a long way.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, there's that. And I, I think also this idea that specifically with millennials, with the younger generation, people are looking for meaning, purpose and significance in their life and they get it. It's all connected. You know, my body and green, there's something happening.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  And then on the media side, the business side, I think it's also, this has been almost the greatest window ever to create a media company. I think that window is actually closing. Uh, and if you're in, you're in, so to speak, but right.

• 21:58Rich Roll?

  Why do you think it's closing?

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Facebook. You know, Facebook, when we grew from 2 million to a high of 15 million.

• 22:09Rich Roll?

  15 million uniques a month.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, now we're at 10, which is great. Facebook represented almost 70% of our traffic.

• 22:17Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Now, we're between 10 and 12, and Facebook is down to 30%. You saw Upworthy was the fastest growing website of all time, went from 10 to 90. Guess where it's at today?

• 22:28Rich Roll?

  I don't know, where?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  11.

• 22:30Rich Roll?

  Wow. So how does that, I mean, what is the mechanics of that? Because Facebook is stealing those eyeballs away?

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Well, it's a couple of things. I think, you know, Facebook happened. And, you know, who created Facebook? If you think about it, it's people sharing content. Who are the people, the types of people that share the most content? Publishers. And so I think Facebook was very friendly with publishers and it just sort of happened. And then, you know, you've got a supply issue where there's people keep on pushing content and you can't crowd the feeds. So you just have to keep on cutting back. It'll never completely go away for publishers, because Facebook relies on publishers for content.

• 23:10Rich Roll?

  Right, but the chokehold that they've put on publishers, being actually able to access the people that are following them on Facebook. You have to pay, you have to pay for those eyeballs.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  You do, you do, which is, you know, I, I get it. But I think that was, you know, within media, I think there are always windows in time where it's very easy to grow. Like before that, it was Google with search. Where like your company is like Demand Media, Live Strong grow really, really fast, really quick. And like window closed, boom, Facebook happened. I don't know what the next one, you know?

• 23:41Rich Roll?

  Is demand even around anymore?

• 23:43Speaker 01

  They are, they are. But, you know, I think their time has passed. So I think, I think that happened and I think we've survived it and thrived and we've got a strong brand.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  But I think that happened with media. I don't know. I don't think there are any vehicles out there right now to really grow.

• 24:00Rich Roll?

  Right. But in the early days or kind of on the trajectory upwards of the company, I remember you telling me that, you know, sort of quote unquote, industry experts would tell you, well, a wellness site is going to tap out at

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Oh, I hear that all the time.

• 24:16Rich Roll?

  A million uniques a month or something like that. And you would consistently trump that.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, yeah. The audience is small. There are no advertisers. Is there really an appetite for this? Like, I hear that all the time. Now I don't hear that so much.

• 24:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  A little bit, but.

• 24:31Rich Roll?

  And I think that, excuse me, the other thing that I've noticed, just, you know, knowing you as long as I have and kind of watching how you've managed the growth of this company is I think you've been really smart. Like, you, you could have blown it out a lot earlier. Like, you could have moved into this office space a couple of years ago, probably, based on your advertising revenue. And you really kept it, you know, you really waited for your moment and allowed organic growth to kind of dictate the steps forward. And you were patient, you know, where there was a lot of money flying around and people probably telling you, you know, on the investment side, oh, we could do this, we could do that. And you resisting that temptation

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:13Rich Roll?

  For the, for the sake of, you know, the long haul.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:17Rich Roll?

  So when you look back on that, you must, you must feel pride at that, right? Because I'm sure a lot of other people flamed out and spent all their money.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  I've seen a lot of people come and go in the six years, and it'll continue to happen. You know, I think that's the challenge of running a socially responsible company. It's growth versus, you know, trust and brand and community. And it's finding a balance. And I do think there is a balance, but it's delicate and you have to, you know, your brand and trust is everything. So there was that great saying, it's like, trust takes, takes years to build, seconds to lose, and a lifetime to rebuild, regain.

• 25:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for sure. And as a CEO, you know, how has?

• 25:59Rich Roll?

  How has your role changed and shifted? How have you like grown into, um, you know, somebody who has to now manage a lot of people?

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 26:09Rich Roll?

  Whereas previously it was just, you know, you were sort of making the shots in your

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:12Rich Roll?

  bedroom. I'm sure there's been growing pains.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 26:15Rich Roll?

  And what are those challenges been? And how do you, um, you know, reconcile those decisions that you have to make against the core mission statement?

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 26:23Rich Roll?

  Of Mind Body Green and making sure that it stays true to what you want it to be?

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Sure. It's a balance.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  You know, I think as you grow bigger and you become more successful, I don't think your problems go away. I just think they change. So like you're constantly, when you're looking to grow a company and your CEO, you're constantly, you know, looking at, well, this is what we're, this is where we want to go tomorrow. This is what we can do. And, uh, you know, once you get there, then it changes again and it will continue to change. And I think it's about evolving and, uh, and adapting and, and realizing what you're strong at, what you're weak at, and trying to improve as you go. Cause I think you have different problems at different stages, but you never get to a point where it's, we get to this headcount or this revenue and your problems are over. Like that does not exist.

• 27:14Rich Roll?

  Right. What are, what are the things that you didn't foresee having to kind of tackle and deal with?

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Sure. You know, I think culture, hiring is really, really hard. I think we've gotten quite good at it, but you know, we're a mission driven company. Not mission, you know, everyone who walks in the door or interviews says they're passionate about the mission, but what that means to them means sometimes means something very different than, than how I view that.

• 27:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  And so, uh, you know, and I think something too in wellness where people say they're passionate about wellness. They want to work here. Like, well, that doesn't mean.

• 27:46Rich Roll?

  They have the skillset to actually.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:48Rich Roll?

  Whatever function you need.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  It doesn't mean you can leave for three hours in the middle of the day and do yoga.

• 27:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Every day. Like, we believe in balance, but we still work hard.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  So that's been a focus, like seeing, you know, what, what types of people like really succeed here. People get the mission and work hard. And we've like identified qualities and. And then culture, like I touched on that, like what, you know, culture is everything, you know, culture is very easy when you've got a group of people sitting around a table. But when you have direct reports and they have reports and they have reports, you know, I believe a strong culture can, you know, get through anything and achieve incredible things. So it's like, how do you get everyone in sync? So that's something where

• 28:31Rich Roll?

  Right. So how do you do that? Like, do you have specific strategies that you employ to try to cultivate a culture where everybody's in sync?

• 28:39Speaker 01

  I think, you know, it's a work in progress. I think it starts with hiring first and foremost, like finding people who are culture or who are fit culturally and really defining that and really having a rigorous hiring process. I think that's like a huge first step when you don't have, it just becomes very difficult when you don't have the right people.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  And, you know, I think, I think, you know, it's, it's holding people accountable. It's having a good dialogue. It's, it's being honest, it's being open.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  And, you know, it's also finding subtle ways to communicate like the values of the company.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  That doesn't, you know, I think it's very easy, like we've got, you've seen the office. We've got quotes on the wall. We've got this great quote mural from our first office. We've got a great quote from you and Julie on there, but like it's one thing to have like these quotes on the wall. It's another thing like, what does that look like in the office place?

• 29:32Rich Roll?

  How do you actually live that and embody that and practice that in the principles of business?

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:37Rich Roll?

  In the workplace?

• 29:38Speaker 01

  So it's, it's really getting people to try to embrace that. And then how does that affect your everyday communication, your everyday interaction? Like, what does that look like? So it's one thing to just put something on the wall. Next thing to actually live it.

• 29:51Rich Roll?

  Right. But the architecture of the space really kind of channels that. I mean, you have your, you have your meditation room and you have your, you know, what is the other one? The rest room and you have like,

• 30:04Speaker 01

  We got, we got the

• 30:04Rich Roll?

  What are the various names?

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Eat, move, live, breathe, love. Each is a mind body green pillar. So breathe is the meditation and restroom.

• 30:12Rich Roll?

  And everybody who works here, nobody has their own office. Everybody's sitting out on tables in the main room.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Not even me.

• 30:17Rich Roll?

  And I think that, you know, says a lot about management style by saying, no, I'm not going to go cloister myself in a corner office and shut the door like you're sitting out there with everybody else.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think, you know, there's a great book, How Google Works with, with Eric Schmidt wrote, and he talks about, you know, that seating arrangement definitely fosters an environment of, you know, creativity and collaboration and ideas flow. It's like, great ideas don't happen if you're walled off. It's those moments of every day, you know, communication. And so that's something we believe in and we see it like it's, stuff happens. That's great when you're, when you're in the mix and you're, you're communicating, stuff like that. When people work remote and they're not, it just stuff gets lost.

• 30:59Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. Is there, are there any particular business leaders out there that you look to for mentorship or you're trying to emulate? Like that guy gets it. Like I want, I want my company to look like that, or I want to adopt the, the style of this CEO.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  That's a good question. You know, I think it's like bits and pieces of people here and there. Uh, I, I'd love to find someone if there are any listeners out there. Like it's something I've looked at. I'm like, I'd love to get like a, you know, executive coach or a mentor or someone, you know, for what we're trying to do, I, you know, but I haven't really found anyone. Maybe it's a listener, but I think there are, you know, CEOs I admire who I don't know personally. Uh, you know, I think John Mackey, you know, is, is polarizing, but I think there are some incredible things he was able to build with Whole Foods Market.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  You know, I, I think, uh, Chip Wilson, another really polarizing guy with Lululemon, was able to build an incredibly strong culture there.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  You know, those are two that, that come to mind. You know, another polarizing one, Martha Stewart, you know, in a lot of ways, I think she was a pioneer. My, it's like, if I, if I, if I look to people who really lived my buddy green 20 years ago to some degree, I think she did. Another, I'm picking all these polar, so I don't know, I don't know if any of these people I would say are the perfect fit for, for me and my style, what we do.

• 32:24Rich Roll?

  Bits and pieces.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think there are a lot of people out there who I sort of admire.

• 32:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And, and looking back over the past couple of years, you know, have you made mistakes that you kick yourself and say, I wish I hadn't done that or? Yeah, here's something I'd learn from. No, just blade forward.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  I learn from stuff all the time, but you know, I guess, I guess my attitude is you make a mistake, you own it, you learn from it, you go. Cause that type, otherwise if it gets caught too much in the rearview mirror, you can just never move forward.

• 32:53Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 33:00Rich Roll?

  Your job is essentially to, uh, you know, craft and cultivate the macro vision for the company, obviously as CEO. And I think it would have been easy to just continue on this path of user generated blog posts and keep it at that and try to drive as much traffic as you can and get the best CPM from your advertisers and all that kind of thing. Um, but you really have kind of pushed the envelope and, and have tried to be, uh, forward thinking in, in where, in the direction that the company is heading. Like you did these online courses, like nobody was doing that. And at first, like we were, I was one of the first one, the first ones that I was gonna

• 33:41Rich Roll?

  think. I don't know how that's gonna work, but it's actually, it's gone really great. And now you have tons of these courses and, and if you were here in the office, you could walk, um, past these doors that are just to my left, right here. And you see this, how this space that still has yet to be developed, that's going to be like a full functioning media studio, right? Which is fantastic. When are you gonna complete work on that, you think?

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Hopefully by the summer.

• 34:07Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Soundproofing in New York is no easy feat. A lot of engineers.

• 34:12Rich Roll?

  Just like, like the podcast, it's just part of the ambiance.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  A lot of guys come in and then, then they bring in more guys. And as soon as I see more guys, my, I'm like, oh God, what's the budget now? There's more guys here with more notepads taking notes.

• 34:24Rich Roll?

  Right. But it's cool. Cause it'll be plug and play and you can just start generating all your own content as if you were, you know, a network essentially, you know? And I've seen what you've done with Revitalize and all the, the filmed content that you created with that and how you repurpose that and share that. And, you know, that's something that's different from just being like a, you know, news site or what have you, you know? So are there any other grand ideas that you're, that you're bouncing around in your mind that you're thinking about?

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Well, I think about, you know, our mission and what we do. Uh, we're here to inspire people. And I think generally in, in health and wellness. I think my body green has evolved in a way that, you know, we're largely about improving people's lives. And I think the greatest way for people to improve is my body green. It's mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, environmental health. Like, that's it. That's if you want to improve yourself, you just can't do the self-help. You need nutrition, you need movement, you need all these things. And so, you know, people, people come to, come to us and they, and they, and they want to improve themselves. And we see like a life cycle where it's like, you know, maybe you come in through yoga like me with back pain. And next thing you know, you're eating more plants. And then next thing you know, it's

• 35:40Speaker 01

  like, oh, wow, we've got all these shit toxins in our house. And next thing you know, you're meditating. And so we see that over and over. And so, you know, I think with wellness, people want to learn and do. And so, from a broad perspective, what are all the things we can do to help people learn and do? And so, like, classes, great thing. I read a blog post, like, this guy Rich Roll, this seems cool. Like, oh, wait, I want to do this. How do I do it? Oh, well, here's Rich's course. And so, just, it's a pretty big umbrella, but like, thinking of all the things we can do, whether it's, you know, content, classes, you know, products someday, events, like, how can we give people the tools to become

• 36:21Speaker 01

  their best selves? And so, that, that's, the vision is big, which is exciting, but there's a lot we can do.

• 36:29Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  You gotta do one thing at a time.

• 36:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, one thing at a time. And as somebody who's on the front lines of wellness and is sort of canvassing everything that's going out, going on in the wellness world right now, like, what are the trends that you're seeing? Like, where, what is the direction? Where's the focus? Where, where are people, you know, interested?

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Sure. God, there's a lot I could talk about here. Do you read my wellness trends piece? It's a good piece.

• 36:55Rich Roll?

  No, I have, oh, wait, is it the one you did?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  2016.

• 36:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Well, there's a couple of ones in there, I think, are super interesting.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  You know, I'll talk about Marie Kondo, like this idea, like Marie Kondo is like the bestselling author of, she's killing it with, uh, you know, the life-changing magic of tidying up. And it speaks to this idea of like, the home is a sanctuary, but like from a spiritual perspective.

• 37:18Rich Roll?

  That book like blew up, didn't it?

• 37:20Speaker 01

  It's amazing. And she's got a follow-up book and you.

• 37:23Rich Roll?

  And it's crazy, like the idea basically is like, clean your shit up and your life gets better.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Have you read it? But she's got a spiritual, she's got a spiritual perspective to it. It's kind of, it's like all the things we believe in, you know, spiritually. And so this idea of like, making your home more of a sanctuary is like a really powerful idea. Uh, and you just see what's, what's grown from that. And I've seen things, you know, like, like plants, we have over a hundred plants in our office, like there's, uh, there's something very soothing about plants. And I think there's also something, you know, environmentally, they, they do good for you too, to have them in your home. Uh, so we're seeing, I see things like, uh, like drilling down, like succulents, plants are trending in a huge way, like blowing up. I think that's largely driven by Instagram.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Um, you see things like flotation tanks, uh, which are kind of scary, uh, for me.

• 38:20Rich Roll?

  Julie just did it the other week, uh, and I'm scheduled to go like sometime in that way, as soon as I get back to LA, yeah, I can't wait to go.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  I would die in it. I could get a little bit claustrophobic in those things. Yeah.

• 38:31Rich Roll?

  It would be a good challenge for you to, to, that, that's your hurdle, right? You know what I mean? You're no stranger to meditation.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  I love meditation, meditate, I meditate every day.

• 38:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah. There's gotta be float tanks, like companies around here, right? Where you can go.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think it's this idea too of like, what's, what's old is new again. So like flotation tanks.

• 38:52Rich Roll?

  Been around for a long time.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Forever, 25 years. Uh, you know, that's exciting. You know, I think something else I talk about, like in a juice world, I think with Doug Evans is doing with Juicero is huge and cool.

• 39:06Rich Roll?

  I'm going to, I'm going to go see his LA operation. Next in like the next 10 days, whatever. He just emailed me. Yeah, yeah. Explain a little bit about what he's doing because it's it's going to change.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:18Rich Roll?

  Entire press juice market.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Doug's awesome. Doug was one of the founders of Organic Avenue and left and so passionate about what he's just such a passionate guy.

• 39:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he's a very unique personality.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  He's, I love him. Very.

• 39:32Rich Roll?

  He was like a graffiti artist.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  He was hard. He was in the Marines. Like, he's a hustler. So like left Organic Avenue and then like reappeared in the valley and had this idea for this company Juicero, which is essentially like the carrot coffee concept, but for juice. You know, where you have these little pods and you've got your different flavors of juice. And you know, the problem with juice is it's a pain in the ass to clean. So you solve that problem and you're delivering, you know, a great product with great fresh ingredients to everyone at scale. Like juice is also expensive. You get a juice bars and a cleaning thing. It's a huge idea and it's phenomenal.

• 40:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, not only that, I mean, my understanding, the way it was explained to me is that it's also something about how he's packaging these pods retains the freshness. So it's actually healthier, more nutrient dense and fresher than what you're going to get even when you go to the juice presses or whatever. Because that produce has been sitting around for a long time.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  And I think a lot of people don't talk about that. And one thing I will say about Doug, like he is maniacal about quality. Like, he will not compromise. So I have no doubt that whatever he's doing with quality will he it will be the best quality product you get, period. Like, he will not compromise.

• 40:52Rich Roll?

  Right. And he's got all these patents now and he's went to the and he went to the he went to Silicon Valley. He raised a ton of money for this because it's a big idea. And so imagine you can get these pods, you can make your own fresh pressed juice in your house without buying tons of produce. There's no cleanup.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:09Rich Roll?

  It's actually fresher and, you know, as healthy, if not healthier than what you're going to get at the juice bar. It's like a no brainer. Like, it's going to revolutionize the whole thing.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  I love it. And if there's a guy who can do it, it's Doug.

• 41:19Rich Roll?

  It's Doug. Yeah, he's proven it before. So it's super interesting.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  And I think that happens, it changes juice.

• 41:25Rich Roll?

  How long is it going to be, do you think, before that's at market?

• 41:28Speaker 01

  He told me 2016.

• 41:30Rich Roll?

  Oh, really?

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:31Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  And that's when things get interesting.

• 41:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  It's like, I think with any business or product, it's one thing, you know, he's got the big idea and then it's okay.

• 41:39Rich Roll?

  Can you execute?

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:40Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  People buy it.

• 41:41Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, I'm going to get him on the podcast and he can tell us.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  There you go. You sell a lot of them.

• 41:45Rich Roll?

  All right. So pod juice makers, what else is going on in wellness?

• 41:49Speaker 01

  That.

• 41:50Rich Roll?

  Cryotherapy, probably.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  That's a big thing. Uh, you know, I also, something I, I, I love that's happening is that what I call the sustainable sandwich shop. You know, Mendocino Farms, have you ever been to that place? Whole Foods actually just invested in them. There's a couple in LA like, so that like, you know, sandwiches, simple things like people, people get sandwiches, whether you know, gluten or no gluten, people eat sandwiches. So there's a whole crop of sandwich shops, uh, I think probably led by Mendocino Farms and this other great one in Seattle called Homegrown, where it's a sandwich shop, but, but you're, you're getting, you're getting organic ingredients. You're getting, you know, farm to table produce, like it, it's a different experience.

• 42:28Rich Roll?

  Right. Like a lower footprint.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like you're not getting like a salami sandwich with, or ham and cheese, you know, it's a different experience, you know, lower footprints, you know, better ingredients, organic quality. Like it's, it's an upgrade, you know, it's not Subway.

• 42:42Rich Roll?

  Right, right. And where do you think things are heading? Like what's, what are we going to be seeing like one year from now, five years from now? Like you must have a feel for trends in a way that most people don't.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Sure. Uh, in terms of food, um, I think organic is just, will keep on going. You know, I, you know, people will say that Whole Foods is struggling a bit because everyone else is, uh, coming into organic. So I think Whole Foods will figure it out. Uh, I think ultimately it's a good thing for everyone, organic readily available to a lower price point.

• 43:17Rich Roll?

  The trickier thing with organic is making sure that what that means isn't degraded via regulation.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:24Rich Roll?

  Because it's so politicized now that even now it doesn't quite mean what it meant probably when you were running your cookie company.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, to some degree.

• 43:33Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? Because there's pressure, because it can be monetized and they can upsell organic products. So if we can downgrade what is actually entailed and required to get that certification, then companies can make money. So I think that's a danger that exists that I think is very real.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yep, I agree.

• 43:53Rich Roll?

  But beyond that.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  I think plants are coming back in a big way. I think we swung too far, too fast and too hard with Paleo. And I think it just went way too far. And I think that's exciting. I think there's no denying the power of a plant-based diet.

• 44:13Rich Roll?

  The truth always prevails, Jason.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  And I still believe, you know, everyone, you gotta do what's right for you. But I just think things swung way too far. And you know, next thing you know, it's fake this, fake that, and it just turns into crap. And then it's, you know, if you're really... So I think that's a trend, which is exciting and good. You know, the power of the mind is something I've been excited about for a while. I think science is catching up there with, you know, concepts like telomeres and stress and how the mind and body are connected. In my own life, I've seen that.

• 44:49Rich Roll?

  I've said this before, but like, the science of telomeres is the new microbiome.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Yes. All that stuff, you know, we're... Everything's connected. You know, a great line from Frank Littman, I remember when I was like dealing with some parasite stuff. I said like, well, do you think like stress plays a role? And he was like, I think it's all connected. And he's right, of course. So I think like this idea of generally like science catching up to a lot of things, you know, we've known maybe intuitively is exciting. I think herbs, holistic health is really happening in a big way, which is exciting. So yeah, I think, I just think we're at like this exciting time where all these things that people thought were weird or like, science is catching up. They work.

• 45:37Rich Roll?

  Right, and I feel like... You know, women are much more open to like, you know, the new ideas or perhaps like something that's, you know, a little bit more new agey than the typical guy. And that's like the grandest generalization of all time.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 45:53Rich Roll?

  Like, I don't want to get in trouble with that. But I think your, the demographics of your site kind of reflect that. So I'm interested in, in knowing whether that's changed at all. Like, I know your audience is predominantly women.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Like 70/30.

• 46:05Rich Roll?

  70/30. Does it remain 70/30? Like, I'd like to see more guys get interested. Like, how do you attract guys and bring them in?

• 46:14Speaker 01

  You know, I think women are always going to be a little bit ahead, to be honest with you in this. I do think more men are catching up. What we've seen, I think meditation is a big gateway for, for men. One is, it's, it's a performance booster.

• 46:30Rich Roll?

  It's the language, too. It's the language that surrounds it. Like, when Steven Kotler starts talking about flow states.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:36Rich Roll?

  Like, guys perk up, and suddenly they're paying attention. But essentially, he's talking about things that, you know, are, were traditionally the purview of the new age.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yep. Yep. So I think Wall Street has embraced meditation. You know, Ray Dalio runs Bridgewater, you know, big meditator, so performance.

• 46:56Rich Roll?

  Silicon Valley.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Silicon Valley, it's huge. So, you know, people, people light up, oh, wait, I can, you know, perform better, you know, be more creative, less stress, sign me up. So I think that's a big gateway for people, for men. I think nutrition's a big gateway for men. And I think like, you know, what's interesting is a lot of men have interviewed at my buddy Green. I always ask everyone in interviews, like, what do you like? I'm curious. Tell me what content you like here. A lot of the men we've hired have said the relationships content.

• 47:25Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:27Rich Roll?

  That's so interesting. I would have thought it would have been all like, you know, sort of paleo diet kind of stuff.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 47:33Rich Roll?

  Interesting. Well, that bodes well for the relationship course that we have coming out.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Oh, you guys are gonna kill it. I'm super excited for it.

• 47:40Rich Roll?

  When are we releasing that?

• 47:41Speaker 01

  I think like in a week.

• 47:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, soon.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:43Rich Roll?

  And I was like, should I have said something?

• 47:45Speaker 01

  No, let's get it. Yeah, let's get it up. Let's get it up.

• 47:48Rich Roll?

  Julie and I did a did a did an online course for Mind Body Green called, I don't know what we're calling it yet, but it's all about relationships.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  I don't know, but I'm buying it. I'm sold. I'm buying whatever you're selling.

• 48:00Rich Roll?

  Well, when you're CEO of Mind Body Green, you don't have to buy it. You don't have to buy it, Jason.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  That's not true, but.

• 48:05Rich Roll?

  Ah, come on. No, that is interesting, though, that that guys would be, yeah, that's, I would not have thought that.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  No, well, I think like, you know, I think men are becoming, you know, more mindful to some degree. I think they're not, maybe not going to scream from the rooftops about what they're reading. But, you know, I think, I think more and more men are trying to be more mindful, you know, being more conscious relationships, you know, looking for meaning, purpose and significance.

• 48:31Rich Roll?

  Well, certainly, that's a hallmark of the millennial generation.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 48:35Rich Roll?

  You know, perhaps not so much people that are my age or your age.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  I think it's happened. So it's like, what I think is interesting, I think millennials get it. Like millennials are almost 30 and then you got men over 40 who are all like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? You know, I got money, I got this, or I got a wife or an ex-wife, or I got this. And so I feel like it's starting to happen a little bit. There's the gap, I think, between the 30 and 40 year olds a little bit.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  But I think I see it happening more.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  And I think media has done a good job, you know. You know, we are, we do have a little bit of a problem with like the bubble in Silicon Valley and technology. But, you know, what I think is interesting there is it's, you know, people are creating things and there is good that comes of that. I think previously, success was measured purely by money and largely driven by Wall Street. So.

• 49:26Rich Roll?

  Right. And now it's being driven by what, Jason?

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Well, I think, I think it's definitely in vogue to be an entrepreneur.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, that's what people do now. Like we said, when we graduated from college, it was like, we did this, this or that. I think now like, most people don't want to work at Goldman Sachs.

• 49:44Rich Roll?

  Well, entrepreneurs are the new rock stars.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:47Rich Roll?

  And this was something that came up in my podcast with Gary Vee. Like, a lot of his messaging is oriented around demystifying the actual day-to-day life of what it means to be a CEO.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Most people should not do it.

• 49:59Rich Roll?

  And it's like, it's a grind. It's not sexy. It's not flying on private jets. It's just like, you know, working your butt off, like, you know, 18 hours a day.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  I would say, most people aren't built for it. They're not. It's hard, you know?

• 50:12Rich Roll?

  That's exactly what he said.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Most people, I would say, just don't do it.

• 50:15Rich Roll?

  What is the biggest illusion that, that you think people have about what it means to be a startup entrepreneur?

• 50:23Rich Roll?

  Beyond what we just said?

• 50:24Speaker 01

  That there's gonna be some, you know, quick exit, or you're just gonna get from A to B really fast.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  You know, I don't think, I think there have been extremely rare cases in history, but for the most part, like, the idea you start with is not the idea you finish with, and you have to be prepared to pivot. Like, you have to be super comfortable with ambiguity and risk. If you're not, forget about it. Because it doesn't even, like, even as you grow, like I say, your problems change. And you just never have all the information.

• 50:55Rich Roll?

  But you guys haven't really pivoted in a substantial way, have you?

• 50:58Speaker 01

  No, but like, we've tweaked things here and there, you know? In the past year, we've really focused on brand and creative and, and better, more original content. You know, switching more from user-generated, which we still do, and then we added a class business. We do events and, you know, the way we think, you know,

• 51:17Speaker 01

  basically like, looking at Facebook purely as a traffic driver to, you know, more focusing on emails. You're constantly evolving. You're constantly changing.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  And so I just think...

• 51:29Speaker 01

  I put it this way, I think, I think you have to be very comfortable with ambiguity to succeed. And I think you also have to be passionate because at some point or another, things will get so hard, you'll want to give up.

• 51:40Rich Roll?

  Right. And Well, if your goal is an IPO or an exit, that's not a great goal to have.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:46Rich Roll?

  Your goal should be building a great company that you love and that does something that you're in love with.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  And it's something I talk about in the book, like this idea of like, make sure you're climbing the right ladder. Cause a lot of people climb the wrong ladder and they get to the top and achieve, you know, money, success, whatever they're looking for, or maybe an exit. And then they're like, well, I'm not really happy.

• 52:04Rich Roll?

  Like, is this the right thing? Yeah. And bringing it back to that, that notion of the false promise that, you know, money is going to bring happiness, that we all know intellectually isn't true, but yet we live our lives as if it is true.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:17Rich Roll?

  It's that weird dissonance.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was a great, I did an interview with, on the site with Kimball Musk. And I asked him about essentially that question. He had this great line, essentially like, you're, you're, you're set for happiness will change with the amount of money you make. So like, if you make more, different things will, you'll adjust. If you make less, you'll adjust.

• 52:37Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter.

• 52:38Rich Roll?

  Right. Explain who Kimball Musk is to people who might not know.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  So Kimball Musk is Elon's brother, uh, who is also, just take that fact away. The guy's still remarkably successful. He's on the board of Tesla, Chipotle, and he's got this restaurant called The Kitchen in Boulder in Denver, which is like my favorite farm to table restaurant. Like, he's got a bunch of them. Uh, it's just so good. Great vegetables. Like, it's just awesome. And he's also, what's even cooler, he's got this thing called The Kitchen Community. So like, when he goes to a city, he just doesn't open a restaurant. He's got to do the community center, which essentially teaches kids like to become familiar with like gardening and plants and where their food comes from. And so like, he's, talk about like, You know, socially conscious, like he hasn't just put restaurants, like he's gotta

• 53:24Speaker 01

  put the education component first.

• 53:27Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. It's inspirational.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, no, he doesn't have to do that.

• 53:31Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  You know what a pain in the ass that is?

• 53:33Rich Roll?

  Do you know him? I gotta get him on the podcast.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  I've, I've met him very briefly. I, I know his, uh, I met him at a restaurant in Chicago, but I can introduce you. He's phenomenal.

• 53:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool, cool. And thank you for that introduction to Marco Borges, because he was

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Oh, he's great, too.

• 53:48Rich Roll?

  He's such a cool guy.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  He's a great guy, yeah. Another super passionate guy.

• 53:51Rich Roll?

  Well, I think this idea of the false promise of money, you know, buying you happiness and exploring that is, is perhaps the, the best place to jump off and talk about the book.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 54:03Rich Roll?

  Because that's a predominant theme in the book. You know, what made you want to write a book? And tell us a little bit about what the book is.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Sure. Uh, so the book is called Wealth, How I Learned to Build a Life, Not a Resume.

• 54:16Rich Roll?

  W E L L T H.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  You got that right.

• 54:19Rich Roll?

  That's so, I'm like, why didn't I think of that? That's such a great title.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 54:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Did you come up with that on your own?

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Sort of.

• 54:27Rich Roll?

  All on your own?

• 54:29Speaker 01

  There's no.

• 54:29Rich Roll?

  That sounded incredibly condescending.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  As I always say, well, I always say, like, there are never any original ideas out there. Uh, I'd seen the word a little bit, but really liked it. Um, so went with it. Um, and thought this will be a word. Maybe we can get into lexicon or no one will understand it and it'll be terrible.

• 54:46Rich Roll?

  No, it's, it's great. It's really great.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  So it's what they call a prescriptive memoir. So a memoir in that I tell a lot of my life story, uh, in the book and then prescriptive as in, you know, each chapter I bring in an expert to, you know, provide some actionable tips. Uh, so it's funny about the book. It wasn't, I had no real desire to write a book. I, uh, wrote a blog post two years, a little over two years ago, my 39th birthday, 39 life lessons I've learned in 39 years. Did very well, went viral. Something I wrote very quickly, just like flowed out that morning of my birthday and it was just magical and did well.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  And so a literary agent wrote into the general inbox at Mindbody Green and said, I read the post, you know, I, I, I think if you could expand upon it and turn it into a book. And I didn't even reply. I thought like, this isn't a book. It's a blog post. Like I'm not naive.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  And then a couple of weeks later, she sent a package to the office with a book, another book and a letter essentially, you know, saying the same thing again. And she said, read this book. I think it's similar in structure and this is a great, great book. So I was traveling the next day and I actually read the book and I was like, holy shit. I think I could write the book.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  And then just wrote and wrote and wrote. And every time I was on a, I don't really have a lot of time. But every time I flew that summer, I wouldn't do the wifi and I would just write. I wouldn't edit it. Whatever came out, you know, from the heart, you know, typos and all, run on sentences and wrote. And then had like 50,000 words and then worked with her to edit down, do the proposal and that was it.

• 56:21Rich Roll?

  That's great. I mean, most CEOs that write books, and it seems like every CEO writes a book.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:28Rich Roll?

  You know, 95%, 99% perhaps are all written by ghostwriters.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I wrote it. I wanted to do it. Like I just didn't want to be that guy.

• 56:36Rich Roll?

  If you're gonna do it, like.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't want to be that, you know, it's like, it's my story. It's my book. It was important for me to do it. And you know, I also learned the process. It's one of those things too. It's like, if you want to get something done, give it to a busy man. I just like plowed through it.

• 56:52Rich Roll?

  Did you have to write a proposal also?

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did the proposal, the whole thing. I'm like, I, my, my agent was great. Like worked with an editor on it. Like I, I needed editing. So I did work with an editor. And, and that was it.

• 57:04Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  I just got it done.

• 57:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And, and how did you approach it? Like, did you have ground rules about like, well, here's what I want it to be and it changed? Or like, how did you get into the headspace of figuring out what it was you wanted to communicate specifically?

• 57:20Speaker 01

  You know, I definitely wanted to, on a macro level, I wanted to create the book that I wish I read 20 years ago. You know, what was the book that I would have loved to have read when I was going through shit on Wall Street, or a breakup, or what have you? And like when I was, when I was living in the self-help section at Barnes and Noble, like searching, you know, I read everything, but it was still lacking like that book that, and so that was the book I wanted to write. And a lot of it was, you know, my personal story, and would hopefully is relatable to a lot of people. So.

• 57:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and I think, I think what distinguishes your book, which I guess I haven't said yet, I'll say it, I'm sure I said it in the intro, which I haven't recorded yet, but when people are listening, you did a great job. It's a great book. Yeah, you should be super proud.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 58:08Rich Roll?

  You know, there's a lot of junky self-help books out there, and in general,

• 58:14Rich Roll?

  I hate self-help books, like I can't stand them for whatever reason.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Just manifest it, Rich.

• 58:21Rich Roll?

  But the thing is, you, you, you wrote a great book, and I think, I think one of the reasons why it stands out and will stand out and will also stand the test of time, is because you allowed yourself to be vulnerable in telling your own story. And I think that's really important in terms of connecting with the audience. So was that challenging or frightening to open up on that level?

• 58:43Speaker 01

  A little bit. And you know, I said to you earlier, before we started taping, you inspired me with Finding Ultra. Like, you really put yourself, I'm serious. You don't roll your, Rich is rolling his eyes. Like, you put yourself out there, and that was something, you know, like, I could have put a lot more out there. The only person, my mother read it. She was like, why'd you share all that? Like, you were a good kid. I'm like, Mom, that's not like.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  But, you know, a little bit, but I thought, you know, this, this is it. And I think a lot of the things I share, I'll, you know, albeit very personal, I think, you know, people can relate to at some level. So I thought that was important.

• 59:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's no, there's no bluster, or chest pumping, or anything like, or you trying to make yourself look like anything, you know, other than who you are. It's innately very human. And I think that that is. Not only important, I think it's it's almost necessary in this culture now. I mean, with, I say this all the time, I'm going to sound repetitive, but you know, young people have incredibly finely attuned bullshit radar.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:49Rich Roll?

  And because of the culture that we live in, that's fueled by the internet, they can see something that's non-authentic coming from a million miles away.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:59Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? And so I think it's more important than ever that if you're going to step into doing something like this, that you be prepared to really be

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:00:06Rich Roll?

  honest and open. And you did that, so.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  I agree. Thank you. Yeah, I just can't, I'm not one of those people who, I can't do it.

• 1:00:13Rich Roll?

  Right. So walk us through what we can find in the book.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  So, you know, the book is not linear. It starts with the eat chapter where I talk about, you know, nutrition and diet. And I go all the way to the, you know, the, close with the live chapter, which is about dealing with death, you know, how losing my father at age 19, you know, changed me in a big way. And then, you know, dealing with the loss of a best friend and other deaths and, you know, and living and what death can represent and laughter and, you know, the book, the book is a journey, you know, everything from what I've learned in my own healing journey, from healing from back pain to recovering from a parasite and nutrition to movement

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  to, to my entrepreneurial journey, what I've learned about, about money and, and jobs and, you know, gratitude and relationships is something I talk about too, and the idea of soulmates. And I think everyone needs to look at soulmates in a different way.

• 1:01:19Rich Roll?

  What, what way specifically?

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Well, you know, in the book, I say there's, there's three types of soulmates. You know, soulmates are sort of like a mysterious thing. And I, and I think we need to reframe the way we look at them. I say that there's, there's two types of non-romantic soulmates and then, excuse me, two types of romantic soulmates and then a non-romantic soulmate. So, you know, I talk about the, the first type of soulmate is the kind that You know, helps you maybe get from A to B and it's probably the most painful, painful relationship you've had, but we've all had them and without them, we wouldn't be who we are today and they're not the ones that you're, you're meant to be with forever, but you're meant to be with at a very specific time to help push you to where you, where you need to, to go in your life path.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  So talk about a very personal story there and then I also believe in the idea of the, the forever soulmate, the one you're supposed to, to be with and this notion where, you know, I believe when people are meant to be together, I say one and one shouldn't equal one and a half or two. I think one and one equals three. You know, these are the people that don't make you insecure. They, they, they make you feel more secure than ever. They bring out the best in you and I, I think they're out there and I also say like, I don't think you need people to make you happy. I also say that, you know, you'll never be happy in a relationship if you're not happy with yourself.

• 1:02:38Rich Roll?

  So true.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  You know, it's over and over, you know, it's like when you're ready, you're ready.

• 1:02:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I think one of the greatest misconceptions and sources of unhappiness in our country, perhaps the world is this idea that another person is going to resolve whatever is making you unhappy in your life. And that myth, and we talk about this in the online course, the myth of like, you complete me, right? And when you're chasing, yeah, when you're chasing that, it's just not going to work out.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:11Rich Roll?

  You know, it starts with yourself and investing in yourself and, and resolving whatever issue is making you unhappy so that you can stand in the light and attract the person that you want to be with, because you have to, you have to be putting out that energy. You have to be the kind of person

• 1:03:29Rich Roll?

  that that person is going to want to be with.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:03:31Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? Otherwise it's a, it's a house of cards.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Yep. Absolutely. And I think it's a recipe for disaster. And I think at some time or another, we've all found ourselves in that. You know, and the third type of soulmate I'd say is a non-romantic soulmate. I think that these are abundant in our lives. They're the old friends that appear and reappear, the people we connect with at certain periods of time who really, you know, help us, connect with us or honest with us. And you know, it's this notion that I think soulmates are abundant. You know, I don't think it's just like this one person, like, you know, I'm running, you know, like who I'm, you know, running through the aisles of Whole Foods in Venice, looking for my soulmate. I think they're everywhere and it's this idea of operating from a place of abundance

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  and not scarcity and, you know, focusing on the blessings we have. And there are soulmates everywhere, I believe that.

• 1:04:24Rich Roll?

  How does it work with you and Colleen?

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:04:26Rich Roll?

  Especially now that you work together as well as are married and live like a few blocks from here. Your world is very, your, your, your, your life is very big, but the geography of your world is very compressed.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's awesome. You know, I talk a lot about Colleen in the book and our relationship and we work together, which is.

• 1:04:47Rich Roll?

  How long have you guys been together?

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  Shit, seven, wait. Seven years, almost seven years. No, eight years. Wait, no, we met, we met in November of 2007. Our first date was November in 2007, so it's almost nine years. So yeah, like working together, you know, we actually, I think, do it well. We don't sit next to each other. That's a big thing. We operate very differently. You know, but for us, and it's not easy. Our biggest challenge is we don't shut it off. You know, we don't have children yet. Hopefully we'll have children soon. But we're so passionate about wellness, like, you know, work, work and play are one.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  You know, it's like we're technically, this is work, but like you're a great friend. So like this is play and we don't go home and just turn it off. You know, we socialize with our friends who are part of the community and we have classes with them, right?

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  You know, something we say a lot is, you know, last work comment. Last work comment, it's just another and another, but we're just so, it's our life.

• 1:05:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  So passionate about it, so.

• 1:05:56Rich Roll?

  The greatest gift that you can experience is when your work life, you know, is your play. You know, like when those two things merge, it's just, it's incredible. And I have the gift of being able to experience that. And, you know, Julie and I work together. We don't work on everything together and we certainly don't sit next to each other all day. That would be disastrous. But there is that blurring of the lines. And I think what it, what it means and what it requires is that you're more conscious of making sure that you carve out time that isn't focused on, you know, that so that every interaction is not a business meeting.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:33Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  And it's something.

• 1:06:34Rich Roll?

  It gets difficult.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. And we, we, we had something we work on and we're conscious of and, uh, but, you know, we also realize it's a blessing to be able to do what we do.

• 1:06:44Rich Roll?

  Totally.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  It's awesome. So like, yeah, the way I look, you know, all the amazing people we know in our, in our lives. And it's just like, sometimes I pinch myself, like, wow, this is awesome.

• 1:06:54Rich Roll?

  There was that moment, I mean, she didn't always work for Mind Body Green though. And she made that leap to doing it full time. Was there trepidation, like we're going into new terrain now? How are we going to navigate this as a married couple?

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  You know, not really. She was just like, I want to, you know, she was always helping out on the side.

• 1:07:10Rich Roll?

  It's about time.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was helping out on the side and, and was ready and it just worked. And, you know, I talk about in the book, like I was harder on her in the beginning. I made her be an unpaid intern for a couple of months to prove herself to everyone. So I was like, not want the nepotism thing. So in a lot of ways, I think I was definitely, she worked so hard. I was definitely harder on her. So I wanted to prove to everyone, I proved my co-founders and, you know, and everyone on the team, like, she's not just my wife. Like, she's really smart and she works her ass off and she can get the job done.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  But, uh, yeah, it just happened and we work, we work well together.

• 1:07:47Rich Roll?

  I'm taking it personally that she's not here today.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  I know she's. I know. Well, she's a little under the weather.

• 1:07:52Rich Roll?

  Feeling well, so. All right. So what else in the book?

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  You know, I think we cover, you know, one thing I'll talk about is nutrition a little bit. You know, I'm not a fan of diets per se. I believe in lifestyle. And a line in the book, which I think you'll appreciate, I said, if there's, if there was, you know, the best diet book of all time would be a book that no one would buy and it would be, Eat Vegetables. And that's it.

• 1:08:23Rich Roll?

  Right, yeah. One line.

• 1:08:26Rich Roll?

  I'd actually like to publish that book. Just that one sentence.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  You know, I talk and talk about my thoughts there. You know, I think a big thing where I've gotten a lot of feedback is this idea of a lot of positive feedback is, you know, is career and work and, you know, how do you, what do you do if you're looking to make a change in your life?

• 1:08:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, let's camp out there a little bit because there are, you know, it is quite a, an epidemic

• 1:08:58Rich Roll?

  in America and beyond, I would presume, of people that are stuck in jobs they don't like.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Rich Roll?

  You know, I mean, I think that is the greatest, you know, sort of difficulty that I think most people are dealing with in a very real way.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:09:13Rich Roll?

  And it's very easy in Cavalier to go like, chase your passion.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:17Rich Roll?

  Or do what you love.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:09:19Rich Roll?

  You know, put up an Instagram quote, you know, that gets lots of likes, that makes you feel all butterflies inside.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Manifest it, Rick.

• 1:09:27Rich Roll?

  But how do you, yeah, like for the person that is

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:31Rich Roll?

  stuck, you know, it's irresponsible to just say, well, quit your job. Or, you know, that's not real. You know, so like, what, what is the real trajectory? Or, or like, how can you be of service and help that person? You know, make those first initial steps to, you know, begin to explore perhaps a different way.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Sure. So it's exactly what you said. It's make the initial step. So what I say in the book, and I use Colleen as an example, is this idea of think three moves ahead. So like, very rarely do people just like, one day say, I'm done. I want to go over here. That's my dream job. And that happens. Rarely happens.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  So this notion of thinking three moves ahead is, you know, think, you know, what is that dream position? And what does it look like? And then come up with some sort of plan. So Colleen is an example, you know, very passionate about health and wellness. She started out in fashion, the retail world, you know, worked at, worked at, worked at Gap, at Old Navy, and Banana Republic, but you know, wanted to get out of it. But she was sort of like boxed in, like, oh, you're a fashion person. So what she did was then take a job at Walmart, you know, oh, Walmart, well, Walmart stopped fashion. Walmart's the biggest retailer in the company. So people started to see her as a different light. Oh, you work at Walmart, whole different thing. People are just fascinated by Walmart, what they do, you know, sustainability, something she was a part of there, what they were doing was amazing. But we totally reframed her. Next job she took was in Amazon.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  All of a sudden, you're working at the biggest e-commerce player in the country. So it's, oh, wait, you're not even fashion. You worked in e-comm. You worked at the biggest retailer in the country and that led her to get a job at Organic Avenue, actually working for Doug Evans. One of the reasons why they hired Colleen? Well, she's got all this great merchandising experience and she worked for the biggest retailer in the world and the biggest e-commerce player in the world. And we're a growing brand that works to work, work on those things. And so that got her to wellness and then to my body green. But that couldn't have happened if she just stayed at Gap and said, I want to work in wellness. Wouldn't have happened. So it's this idea of like identifying where you want to go. And you may have to, you know, make those three moves. And what I say for a lot of people to do that.

• 1:11:38Rich Roll?

  And patience.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, patience, like, look at LinkedIn, like, look at people who have the job that you want and see their background. You see how they got there, like, sometimes they, and come up with a plan and be right. You gotta take the first step. Very rarely does someone like say, I hate Wall Street. I'm done. I want to, you know, work in the juice tree or whatever. It doesn't happen.

• 1:11:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and that first step might be going on LinkedIn and searching for people that do something more interesting or something that interests you personally and perhaps sending one of them an email.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Or you may have to take a bit of a pay cut and, or, or a title cut and, you know.

• 1:12:13Rich Roll?

  Or a night class.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, like when I left trading, I was like, shit, I don't have any transferable skills. I'm good at this one thing, but that doesn't mean

• 1:12:23Rich Roll?

  branded for life at age 23.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was young. I was 25, you know, 25, 26, I was sort of like leaving like, but I realized and I don't, I need to like start over here. And it took 10 years, like the entrepreneurial journey too. Like I'll add like, it took 10 years. Like I had things that didn't work, but I learned a lot and like the cliches are true. Like you learn more from your failures and your successes, but like.

• 1:12:48Rich Roll?

  Were you always an entrepreneur? Did you have that spirit in you as a kid?

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. Like I was always entrepreneurial, everything from like selling the cups at cake parties to all that, you know, fun stuff. And I think something about me, I've always had like a very high risk, you know, a high tolerance for risk and ambiguity. Like more so than most people, what I think made me a good trader and just, I'm comfortable with a lot of.

• 1:13:18Rich Roll?

  Right. Being comfortable with the arbitrage.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I'm comfortable. It's this idea of, it's a blend of like ambiguity and a big way of not knowing. Like, and also knowing things will be okay. It's this balance. I think a lot of people struggle with. It's this idea of knowing things are gonna be, be okay, but you can't just fucking sit around and do nothing too. So it's like, you gotta push and push and work, but also have faith and be able to take a step back sometimes and say like, what am I missing here? Like universe, God, whatever. And I think that there's a balance.

• 1:13:55Rich Roll?

  Well, balance is an interesting subject to explore. You know, the typical startup entrepreneur does not live a very balanced life.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:14:05Rich Roll?

  It'd be very easy to be very out of balance. And I have some, you know, sort of iconoclastic opinions about balance in general. But as somebody who's lording over a wellness company, it would not behoove you to become a workaholic and then stop practicing all the things that you're preaching. So how do you make sure that you are keeping all of that in check?

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  It's hard, you know, it's something like, I've definitely had moments where I'm like, all this. Wellness is making me unwell.

• 1:14:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know what that's like.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  Like I'm changing all these people's lives.

• 1:14:35Rich Roll?

  Spending so much time talking about wellness that I'm not well.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  Right. And you know, I, it's something I'm mindful of, you know, it's evolved. Like there's this great, there's a quote from like Randy Zuckerberg. It's something like choose three, you know, family, friends, sleep, fitness, or your job. And it's like, sort of true. It's something I'm mindful of. So for me, it's changed. Like the days of me going to a public yoga class, five days a week, that's over. For me, my yoga practice has evolved to two days a week for 15 minutes at home. What do I do daily now? I do meditation every day, you know, for 20 minutes every day, never miss. Sometimes I get in twice. I'll lift weights once a week.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  I walk a lot. Like that's how it's evolved, but it's still, it's changed and I'm sure it'll evolve again, but it's, believe me, it's something I think about.

• 1:15:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  You know, I think a lot of people in wellness too, like,

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  it's hard. And I think people struggle with it.

• 1:15:33Rich Roll?

  Well, when wellness becomes your business, that's when, you know what I mean? That's when it, when the wellness itself can become threatened.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:43Rich Roll?

  And I've experienced that. And, you know, I'm prone to being very out of balance. Like I thrive in the excitement and the energy of going all in on something.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:52Rich Roll?

  So whether that's writing a book, or staying up all night editing a video, or a podcast, whatever it is, like I can get obsessive.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59Rich Roll?

  And then I'm not taking care of myself. But then I justify it by saying, yes, but the product is forever. And when that's done, it's out there. And then I can bring, you know, I can let that pendulum swing back. And so I give myself a little bit of a wide berth to allow myself to do that, because I do function well when I'm hyper focused for a short period of time. But I have to be mindful that I'm not out of whack for too long.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. You know, it's this idea of, you know, you can only, you push so much and then you kind of have to let go. And I think it's like a spiritual approach to, to working and business, you know? And I think that's a problem I have a lot of self-help books. It's like a lot of them just preach like, just, You know, repeat affirmations or manifested and things will come. You have to work hard.

• 1:16:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  But you do have to be able to take a step back and say, I need to let things come to me. I need to take care of me and then the abundance is there.

• 1:16:56Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  And I think most people, it's hard. You see people just push, push, push, or they just sit on the couch and say, you know, I'm ready. You know, bring the money.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  So I think it's a balance.

• 1:17:06Rich Roll?

  Right. And there's so many things, like if you start to explore like, well, what, what is the optimal morning routine? Or, you know, how should I live my life as balanced and as healthy as I can throughout the day? And you start to accumulate these tasks, whether it's meditation, yoga, journaling, you know, and making sure that you eat every 40 minutes with a little snack, whatever it is. And then suddenly like, there's no time for anything else in your actual life.

• 1:17:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:17:34Rich Roll?

  Other than taking care of those things. So it becomes overwhelming and intimidating.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:17:38Rich Roll?

  And then you feel bad if you don't do all of them.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:17:41Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? And I think that creates a negative spiral.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  I agree. I think you gotta find out what works for you and you know, what's that? It's like the Tim Ferriss quote, like the, the great habit is like the one you keep. A great practice, like you gotta do it.

• 1:17:53Rich Roll?

  Or that, yeah, like what, what is the, what's the fitness routine or the diet that I should do? The one that you will actually do.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  Right. And then it's one of the things I like to talk about, like I love Blue Zones. I love Dan Budner, our friend, like I can, so many people can do that.

• 1:18:06Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, he's all about changing your environment. So the healthy choice is the easy choice or the convenient choice.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:12Rich Roll?

  And that's, that's super powerful.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:15Rich Roll?

  Right. But, but you know, that can be applied to your home or your office. And then extrapolating out into communities and things that he's doing with cities.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's awesome. But like focusing on small, you know, I believe in the power of small wins. Whatever you're looking to do, or you're improving in your, your relationship, your diet, work, you know, focus on little things, win and move from there.

• 1:18:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Because. As trite and as stupid as it sounds, like mountains are moved through those tiny actions. It's the little things that you do on a daily basis consistently that actually make the difference and create the change. Like when I look back on, you know, whether it's Ultraman or writing, whatever it is that I've done, like it's about like little things that I did every single day without fail in, you know, that weren't on Snapchat or publicly announced or anything like that. It's just how you recalibrate your lifestyle to make room for those actions and permit yourself to fail in anonymity that allow you to move forward.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:19:15Rich Roll?

  So if you could go back to the beginning of the Mind Body Green adventure and give yourself a little bit of advice, perhaps advice that's in your new book, I mean, what would you tell yourself?

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  It's gonna take a lot longer than you think.

• 1:19:28Rich Roll?

  But don't tell your wife that. At the time, what did you think? Like, what was the...

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  I would say to Colleen, like, it's just gonna be like six months.

• 1:19:35Rich Roll?

  Before you just blow it up and make it into a huge thing?

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it took a good three years before I knew like, okay, we have something here. So that was three years, you know, 2012 was when I said, when we knew like, okay, we got something here.

• 1:19:51Rich Roll?

  In terms of it, like, this is a real business?

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, like this has legs.

• 1:19:54Rich Roll?

  This is like something that I'm, like, that's a hobby?

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Right, right. Like, this isn't right. And then it's, you know, so I think everything is, everything takes longer than you think. And then sometimes you're surprised. I think things, when they're, when, I do think it's true in business and in life and relationships, everything, when things are aligned and you've done the work and everything's in place, boom, that's when big things happen.

• 1:20:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  All that, but I think it's hard work.

• 1:20:24Rich Roll?

  All the legwork that leads up to that moment that you can then later chalk up as luck or synchronicity, but which you prepared for.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Right, it's this idea of like, you know, being aligned, you know, spiritually, mentally, all these things, like when you're aligned, when you're supposed to be, but you generally just don't arrive there. You gotta work to get there and then, then I think magic things happen. You align your, you know, your work and your passion and values.

• 1:20:51Rich Roll?

  When you look at other entrepreneurs out there, startup CEOs, you know, are there things that they're doing where you're like, if they only knew, or this is what they're doing wrong, or you know what I mean? Like, not in a, not in, not in an egotistical way, but like, what have you learned that you think, you know, would be of value or assistance to somebody who is, maybe they're just starting a little mom and pop shop, or a little ecommerce site, or something like that?

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  To me, you have to start with passion. Like, don't just do anything just for the money, you know, like I say in the book-

• 1:21:25Rich Roll?

  Because it's cool to be an entrepreneur.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, I like money, but it's not about the money. You have to be passionate about it, because you will give up at some point, unless you're someone who just, you know, there's some people just never give up. And that's also, can be a bad thing, too. So I think passion is really key, because you will have that dark night of the soul, so to speak, as an entrepreneur, those sleepless nights, you're like, why am I doing this? But you push through it. You're passionate about it.

• 1:21:52Rich Roll?

  And where does spirituality come into this for you, and what does that look like?

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  Well, to me, it's this idea, you know, there are definitely bumps, and detours, and potholes, and all those things. It's, you know, having a, I think it really helps to have like, a deeper belief in something that like, greater than yourself, that like, you're on a path, and things will be okay. Because it gets you through. And I also think, you know, at 41 now, like, you know, I've had some life experiences, you know, whether it was like, losing a parent, or like, things that I thought were falling apart, and, and, you know, I think it helps to also go back and say like, okay, I've sort of seen this thing happen before. It's gonna suck, but we're gonna persevere and work hard, and we're gonna get through. So I think, like, being able to have faced adversity at a young

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  age, to have something to draw back on, I think helps get you through it. And I think having, you know, I think having a spiritual practice is huge in being an entrepreneur, because there are moments when you just don't know, you know, they happen, you know? And so having a faith, like, you're doing the right thing, and you're, you're true to your mission, and your mission larger than you, what you're supposed to be doing, and things will work out, like, that just helps. I think you, as an entrepreneur, everything's on your shoulders, anyway. The way of the world, you know, your employees, the company, your investor, all these things, you know, the way of the world is on your shoulders. So, the ability to sometimes take a step back and say like-

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  There's something bigger than myself that's I'm sort of powerless against. Not to say I'm just gonna sit on the couch and do nothing, but like there's something bigger than me that can help or change this like. Shoulders are feeling maybe a little lighter at the moment. I think that's powerful.

• 1:23:35Rich Roll?

  Right, and that this is happening for a reason beyond your understanding on some level.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:23:44Rich Roll?

  You didn't, you know, craft a universe that would allow wellness to be a massive sort of market trend right now.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Like exactly, like.

• 1:23:52Rich Roll?

  And all these other sort of factors outside of your control that are dictating, you know, the trajectory of this company and your profession and your career.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:00Rich Roll?

  And to be able to go, well, you know, I'm not the ultimate steward of, you know, where this is going to go.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:24:07Rich Roll?

  Find comfort in that and peace and understand that, yeah, there is something bigger going on here and.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:24:12Rich Roll?

  This is your mission and there's a reason why you're doing this and there's a reason why it's successful. Some of that is a result of your self-will and your hard work and some of it is because this is supposed to be happening, Jason.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:24:24Rich Roll?

  And you're fulfilling your universal role as steward of wellness.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and I think entrepreneurs and CEO, you know, you can get lost in that. We're like, you know, if there's a will, I'm a, you know, I'm an athlete too. It's like, there's a will on my way, like that's a long run through it, you know?

• 1:24:41Rich Roll?

  But I think. That distinction between self-will and relinquishing control.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  You need both. You know, you can't, you can't just sit around and manifest it, so to speak. You gotta do the work, but at the same time, you have to be able to. It's something I think I, you know, I work on, I think a lot of people struggle with, you know, I think people who are type A's are used to just pushing. Like, there's that ball over there, I'm gonna fucking go get it.

• 1:25:08Rich Roll?

  Right, and where do you, and where do you draw that line? You know, of course perseverance is important and overcoming obstacles are important. But also if the universe is just throwing, you know, so many obstacles at you that the message, you know, is then like, well, maybe this isn't.

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I faced that with other businesses where like, you know, I've had moments with businesses that didn't work out where I was like, Jesus Christ, like I've done everything here, you know? It's like you do have to try to knock down doors and knock down doors and then sometimes you're like, the door is just not opening. Or maybe there's this one over here. That's what I always look at things like whenever we're. You know, struggling or trying to do something, it's just not happening where, you know, I take a step back and say like, whoa, like, maybe I'm looking, I'm trying to bang down the wrong door. Am I not seeing something? Can I take a step back? Is there this door over here on the right that I'm just not paying attention to where someone's like, you know, screaming at me, like walk through it. So it's that, it's the ability to like, I think, charge through and make things happen, but also the ability to like, take

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  a step back, which is, I think, hard to do. And say like, whoa, am I doing the right thing? Is this thing happening or not happening for a reason? And not overthinking it too, sometimes. Easy to say, hard to do.

• 1:26:23Rich Roll?

  And how important is meditation in, in sort of sharpening that knife of discernment?

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Sure. It's huge. It's been super valuable to me. To me, it's been game changing. You know, I think, I probably would have really struggled the past couple of years if I didn't have that tool. Like, it's really great to just go away and just, you almost feel like a level of fog lift, be able to think a little bit clearly. I think very clearly after sometimes, where it's like a really sharp contrast, where it's like, whoa, I need to do this.

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  It's powerful. I think, you know, it's like this idea of, you know, as an entrepreneur, as a CEO, I think, any in life, like, you have to have a level of humility where it's like, you gotta, you know, like, we touched on, you gotta realize that there's something else out there guiding you and you gotta run with it. But at the same time, you gotta, you gotta work. You gotta work.

• 1:27:22Rich Roll?

  Is there a specific kind of meditation that you practice?

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  So I'll, you know, repeat a mantra over and over for 20 minutes.

• 1:27:29Rich Roll?

  Given to you by Charlie?

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Charlie Knowles, great meditation course. And then I'll do like mindful, I'll sort of do everything, but that's the one I stick with. You know, and I always, I think a gratitude practice is, is good, you know, for me, like,

• 1:27:43Rich Roll?

  What does that practice look like?

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  You know, every day I wake up, I say, thank you. A couple of times, like we have it on our wall, you know, I'm a big fan of Peter Tunney. You know, we've got this great gratitude mural.

• 1:27:53Rich Roll?

  Huge mural, entire wall, like 10 feet high says gratitude.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I think having a gratitude practice is just, is huge. Whatever that looks like for you, you know, appreciating the people in your life, uh, you know, the ability to walk, all these things, you know, I just, you know, you never want to have something taken away before you appreciate it. So I just think that's just ingrained in me.

• 1:28:19Rich Roll?

  We got to wrap it up here in a couple of minutes, but I thought we could kind of close it down with perhaps some imparting words of wisdom for, uh, you know, somebody who's out there who is interested in these ideas, you know, maybe it's a guy who's not the typical mind body green, you know, reader, or somebody who's stuck in a job that's not doing it for them, or they're in a relationship that they're not sure how to get out of, but they know it's not quite right. Like, how do you communicate with that person?

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  Well, A, I hope they read the book. I think there's some lessons in there. Check out Mind Body Green, check out Wealth. But, you know, I think it's important for people to know that, you know, anything's possible. You know, I, I sort of started over, uh, you know, my, something else I talk about, like I moved back home at like age 30 and was broke and like, felt like a, I say like, I felt like a better looking, taller George Costanza, like, and started from scratch and took me a long time and I did it and I'm glad I did it. And I thought like, oh God, like, should have did this five years ago, but like now I'm 40.

• 1:29:31Rich Roll?

  All my friends are ahead of me.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I was ahead of them and they became ahead of me. And I'm like, I went backwards. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? And so like, It only gets harder and like for 30 or you know, one guy I will say I do admire, Bill Campbell. Bill Campbell is this guy. So he actually, he's a Columbia alum. He went to Columbia, he played football, became the Columbia coach, Columbia football coach. Oh, it was a terrible coach. In his late 30s, I think like 38, he started over and like took a job at like Kodak or an advertising, but like started from scratch, 38.

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  He was one of Steve Jobs' closest friends. He parlayed, were working at Apple. They call him the coach of Silicon Valley. He was the CEO of Intuit. He's like the confidant of the Google founders, like a lot's been written about him. But like, I looked at that guy, like, holy shit, like Bill Camp, like donated so much money to Columbia. It's like, there's the Bill Campbell this, there's the Bill Campbell that. I met him a few times, super nice guy. But like, the guy started over in his late 30s and like is incredibly successful. So I was like, okay, like, I'm 31, this guy was married with a kid and like, starting over like a failure Ivy League football coach to this guy today. So you know, it's this idea, like, it's never too late, whether you're 40, 50, it doesn't matter. It's like-

• 1:30:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's amazing. We're in this like social contract where there's these unwritten rules about like how you're supposed to progress through your life. And if you venture off that track, somehow you're perceived as, you know, broken goods or, you know, and that sort of self judgment that comes with that can be debilitating.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  Yep. And I've seen-

• 1:31:12Rich Roll?

  And it's an illusion.

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  Totally. And I think more and more guys are like secretly opening up to it. Like, I've had people reach out, I have friends with, you know, and say like, I'm doing this now. Did you know that? Like, don't tell anyone. I'm like, that's awesome. You can tell, you know, and I think, you know, I think more and more people, you know, are searching for more meaning, purpose, and significance. And they see guys like you too, you know, you have a similar story. Like, you're like, I'm doing this. And I know, and it's not easy, but I'm doing it. And like, it's hard, but I'm doing it. And, you know, I just say to everyone, like, anything's possible. You gotta, the first step is believing. And often, the first step is the hardest step. Just gotta take it. So-

• 1:31:52Rich Roll?

  It's inspiring what you've built here, man. I commend you. It's really impressive and very cool. And I love the mission and I'm part of the mission.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:32:01Rich Roll?

  And it's been a privilege to grow alongside you on a parallel track. And I can't wait to see where you take all this.

• 1:32:08Speaker 01

  Awesome. Such an honor, Rich. Thank you so much.

• 1:32:10Rich Roll?

  Very cool. Thanks for taking the time. The book is called Wealth. It is coming to bookstores everywhere. That's not it. It's right here. How I Learned to Build a Life, Not a Resume. Everybody should definitely check it out. It's incredibly well-written.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  And there's this great quote on the back cover.

• 1:32:25Rich Roll?

  There is. You gave me that top billing.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  Top billing. Rich Roll.

• 1:32:29Rich Roll?

  Yes. Should I read it? Health begins... Here, I'll read what I wrote. Health begins with what's on your plate. But wellness is alchemy, an elusive and delicate ballet of body, mind, and spirit, ever striving for perfect harmony. Definitely leveraging the wisdom and experience of the world's greatest wellness experts, Wealth is a brilliantly composed, highly engaging memoir and an easy to digest primer on exactly how you too can be healthy and happy, live your best life, and thrive. A must-read. And I believe that, man. It really is. So, congrats.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:33:02Rich Roll?

  Very cool. If you're digging on Jason, the best way to track him down is to go to MindBodyGreen.com and you're on all the social media. @JasonWalkup on Twitter, Facebook, all the like.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:14Rich Roll?

  Anything else?

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:33:16Rich Roll?

  We did it, right?

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:17Rich Roll?

  How do you feel?

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  I feel great.

• 1:33:19Rich Roll?

  I feel good.

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  Such an honor. I love the Rich Roll podcast.

• 1:33:23Rich Roll?

  All right, man. Thanks so much. Peace.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:33:27Rich Roll?

  Plants.

• 1:33:54Rich Roll?

  What'd you guys think? He's cool, right? I hope you guys enjoyed that. I love that guy. And I think his book is great. And I'm so proud to share that conversation with you guys. Check out this week's show notes for much more. I've got plenty o' links and resources, including, of course, everything that we mentioned during the course of the conversation. For all your Plant Power and RRP schwag and merch, visit richroll.com. We're running a huge sale this week on all our nutrition products, which you would know if you subscribed to my newsletter. If you haven't done that, maybe do that. Keep sending in your questions for future Q&A podcasts, [email protected]. Big shout out to Sean Patterson for all his amazing help on the graphics for this

• 1:34:34Rich Roll?

  episode, Chris Swan for production assistance, and thank you to Anna Lima and Tyler Pyatt for all the transition music. That's my boys' band. They're amazing. Thanks for all the support, you guys. I love doing this. And I love all of you. See you soon. Peace. Plants.