Postcards From Paris: Cody Simpson & Katie Hoff

Direct from Paris, Rich joins former RRP guests 2x Olympian Katie Hoff, and global singer-songwriter star turned Olympic hopeful Cody Simpson talks big dreams, finding himself, and lessons learned from sport and stage. Plus the latest on the swimming competitions, what it's like behind-the-scenes at the games -- and tons more. Watch on YouTube Browse all episodes of The Rich Roll Podcast at: https://www.richroll.com/all-episodes/ Meal Planner: For customized plant-based recipes 👉meals.richroll.com Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors 👉 richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:10Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Postcards from Paris, episode two. Back with Katie Hoff, two-time Olympian, and a very special guest today. We've got Cody Simpson in the house, friend, friend of the podcast.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Two-time Rich Roll podcaster.

• 0:24Rich Roll?

  That's right. Setting appearance on the show. That's worth putting on the bio.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  That's on the resume now.

• 0:31Rich Roll?

  Little bit of a different setting. The first time you were gracious enough to allow me entrance into your home when I was on the Gold Coast. And I appreciate you taking the time to do this today, man.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Thanks, man. Yeah. Man, I was just standing up the road from here, so easy to swing by.

• 0:46Rich Roll?

  That's right. And we're, we're, we just figured out we're staying sort of near each other in a certain part of Paris.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Five blocks away, yeah, yeah.

• 0:54Rich Roll?

  What has your experience been like? How long have you been in Paris?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I've been here for maybe five or six days. I was in the South France before this.

• 1:04Rich Roll?

  I noticed that. Living your best life down there.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  As per Instagram, I'm there right now.

• 1:09Rich Roll?

  I know. I noticed you shared something there and I was like, did he leave Paris and come back?

• 1:14Speaker 01

  No, I was just sharing after the fact. Yeah. I was like, I took, well, I was so busy just doing, busy doing nothing, but taking photos. And it's like, I'll just share them all later because I had so many, so many good little clips and stuff. And it's just beautiful down there. So I said, I'll just, I'll just look back at it all after the fact and pretend I'm there a couple of weeks after I really was.

• 1:35Rich Roll?

  Well, you look good. You look happy.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:39Rich Roll?

  It's fun to be in Paris. We were saying the other day, like up in the area and the neighborhoods like where you and I are staying.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45Rich Roll?

  It's unbelievably quiet. You wouldn't even know that the Olympics are happening. There's less people than there would be ordinarily this time of year in terms of like tourists.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  I was, I'm doing a lot of bike riding. Like that's how I'm getting around because it's so easy. And it's kind of hot. So it's nice to just get the breeze.

• 2:02Rich Roll?

  It's so hot.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  So I've just been bicycling around all day. And it's empty. Some like late afternoon, I was finding just streets that were just deserted. Yeah.

• 2:13Rich Roll?

  It's not a morning city, for sure.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's kind of nice.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  And yeah, I've, I've wanted to live over here for a long time and I sort of uh am now scouting.

• 2:26Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Areas I may look at spending a bit of time in because I just, I love this city for some reason.

• 2:32Rich Roll?

  It's inspiring. It's creatively inspiring.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Creative, yeah, it's creatively inspiring. It's got so much history, you know, literary wise, music wise, art wise, like it's beautiful.

• 2:44Rich Roll?

  Which, which begs the obvious next question. Uh, we'll get into it more about like, are we, are we, uh, are we, are we complete with our swimming career? Are you gonna continue? Are you getting back into music? What does it look like?

• 2:58Katie Hoff?

  Is that too early of a question?

• 3:00Speaker 01

  It's hard. Like I'm only maybe six weeks removed from our trials. So I'm like, for the time being, I guess I say yes, but it's like,

• 3:09Speaker 01

  so much changed from four years ago to now. And so,

• 3:18Speaker 01

  life is so unpredictable, right? Like I just don't know what will happen over the next four years and, and where life's gonna take me in that, in that sense. But I do have a lot of creative and musical sort of endeavors and ambitions I'm interested in, in pursuing between sort of now and then and where and if swimming fits into that again, you know, I'm just gonna give it at least till sort of the end of the year to not force myself to um,

• 3:44Speaker 01

  think about it too hard. Yeah. I wanted to take a little break.

• 3:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, like I said, you earned it.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:50Rich Roll?

  Um, I would suspect that you being the creative person that you are, it must feel great to not be exhausted all the time or to have the daunting and then suddenly all that creative energy now, you know, can find its expression.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know if you, if you noticed this, Katie, but when you stopped like realizing how much time you had in the day for like other, other things because you weren't just like training for three hours in the morning and then sleeping, eating and training in the afternoon.

• 4:21Katie Hoff?

  Well, and you also feel like you're like, oh my gosh, I have energy again. Like you don't realize how tired you are when you're training because you're just like, well, like this is just how I'm supposed to feel and I'm gonna grind through it. But when you stop, you're like, I wanna go on a walk. I wanna go on a random bike ride.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:37Katie Hoff?

  I used to hate walking because it just meant that I was more tired for training. But I've walked all around Paris and it's so fun.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:46Katie Hoff?

  But it's not fun when you're training at all.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  And in those long blocks, you almost, you almost get used to it.

• 4:51Katie Hoff?

  You do, yeah.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Like.

• 4:52Katie Hoff?

  You just accept it.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  You don't know any different because it's been, you've been under for so long.

• 4:56Rich Roll?

  Even though you went through that extended period when you weren't doing it.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:00Rich Roll?

  Went back into it, you forgot what it felt like when you were just in normalcy.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I forgot. And, and it was probably only those couple of weeks of the year where you do a taper or you have like a little break that you realize what it feels like to be a normal human being.

• 5:15Katie Hoff?

  You're like, I'm me again.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And for me, that came in, in, in creativity and like ideas and stuff. Cause I was just so mentally zapped all the time where I would never have any ideas.

• 5:27Katie Hoff?

  Yeah. How much does that affect you? Cause I'm not, I was telling him, I am not a creative. So did you find the shift? Like, were you able to create?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  It was huge.

• 5:36Katie Hoff?

  Or do anything when you were doing, you know, training five hours a day?

• 5:39Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 5:40Katie Hoff?

  At all?

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Very, very rarely. I'd have glimpses of it.

• 5:43Katie Hoff?

  Interesting.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  But often, especially when it was, you know, you were really kind of grinding, like I didn't have much time or much, much energy or time, I suppose to, cause I think creativity needs, um, space.

• 6:02Katie Hoff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Like you almost need to be sitting alone for like four hours before anything can happen. Anything worthwhile can happen. Like, and I just, we've never had that time. Like I was, that was, you'd be napping or sleeping or, you know, or training. So it was just, it was huge, like stopping and then just getting that, that burst and of, you know, it was like the floodgates opened again. Just like, I can write songs, I can do whatever I want, you know? And I'm not, not tired and I can stay up till midnight and like. I feel fine.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  It's hilarious, yeah. My schedule over here has been, you know, I've been sleeping from like one till nine. Instead of, you know, eight till five or whatever, yeah.

• 6:41Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:42Rich Roll?

  You're like, wow. Life just opened up again. I could see you living in Paris, cruising around on a bike.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 6:49Rich Roll?

  Writing songs.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  I love it, yeah.

• 6:50Rich Roll?

  Nice.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:52Rich Roll?

  And how has it been to, to attend the meet? Obviously, you're here, you know, supporting Emma.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:01Rich Roll?

  But in the wake of, you know, kind of falling a little bit short of the dream that you had set for yourself of making the team.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Um, you know, there's obviously that, always gonna be that sense of, uh, I wish I could have been here and, and doing this in the pool. But like, I am proud and excited to be here in another capacity, supporting her. Like, you know, I didn't feel, going to the pool and watching finals, like I wasn't upset or anything. I was just, I was like excited for her and for the other guys, like, cause it is what it is, you know? Like, you can't change it after the fact, like you, you have to be there and enjoying yourself. And she, you know, for her, it's like a huge moment and, you know, me being her partner is like, you know, it's almost like I'm feeling those same nerves and excitement. For her, she would be for herself, so.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Um, and I had like, I think if I hadn't really done everything I could to get the most out of myself, I'd probably feel different. But after the trials, like, even though there was a sense of disappointment, which there naturally is, you know? Um, there was also a sense of peace, cause I was like.

• 8:19Rich Roll?

  You did everything you could.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, for those final, especially those final six months, it's like.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  I was so dialed in in every capacity that I I just looked back and even upon really meticulous examination of like, you know, because I think sometimes if you do foreshort, you like, look back and try and

• 8:37Katie Hoff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  What kind of a I've done and I couldn't find I couldn't find anything significant enough to like, you know,

• 8:45Katie Hoff?

  Like obsess over.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Stress over.

• 8:46Rich Roll?

  Like a shit or koda kind of thing.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  It's like, okay, well, that's that, you know, like, there's peace in that and there's pride in that too, because you've like, done everything you could. And so I was like, okay, well, I can I can leave this with with pace because like, I did everything I could.

• 9:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 9:02Katie Hoff?

  Oh, I find that so refreshing because I don't think there's many athletes that like, I know when I didn't make the team in 2012, I couldn't have imagined flying over to London and watching.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:13Katie Hoff?

  So like, has it helped having a new focus with Emma? Like, if you were to come over here without being focused on her, do you think you'd have the same thought and peace?

• 9:24Speaker 01

  I mean, if I was, nah, probably not. Like, um, well, yes and no. Um, I think I think being able to watch her fulfill that that, you know, her last games and and and, you know, have already been on the podium and everything is like, has helped for sure. Because I I feel like that sense of pride for her and excitement for her. And it definitely like, eases that that, uh, you know, wishing and wanting I was in there. Obviously, you know, as a competitive athlete, like, you look at the pool and you want to you want to get in, you know, and you wish you had the chance to get in. But, you know, you can't change it. So.

• 10:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah. For people that are listening or watching who don't know who Emma is.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:04Rich Roll?

  She just won her 12th Olympic medal.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:07Rich Roll?

  Is that correct?

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:08Rich Roll?

  And how many golds?

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's her six.

• 10:11Rich Roll?

  Six golds. So she's now eclipsed in the the record that she shared with Ian Thorpe, I think.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for golds.

• 10:19Rich Roll?

  Most, most golds.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  For Australians.

• 10:21Rich Roll?

  And most and and most medals also she has, right?

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, she already had that, I think. But I think now, I think it's now she has the the she was she was tied with Ian for most golds at the Olympics. And I think now she has one more, something like that.

• 10:35Rich Roll?

  Right. Right. So most decorated Australian.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Rich Roll?

  And how does she like weather that pressure? And how, how do you show up as a support system for her?

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, she holds herself to the utmost standard, right? And so nothing's ever enough for her and or at least won't be till she stops. And I think has some perspective and goes, I actually did alright.

• 11:00Katie Hoff?

  That was pretty good.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure you felt that way like stopping like during it, when you're in it, it's like you bought, you want more. And then it's not until you you slightly remove from it and you can look in the rearview and go, I actually came, did a fair bit there, you know?

• 11:17Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, we were just talking about that with Elizabeth Beisel of the to be able to sit at the pool or sit at the opening ceremonies. You that's the first time you realize like, wow, I was like, I was, I was pretty awesome at this.

• 11:30Rich Roll?

  But the the big problem that that you two were having is that the times are really slow this year.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:36Rich Roll?

  So they're like, you're like thinking about.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could, I would have been. I would have held up in there.

• 11:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, don't tell me you're not looking at that thinking.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know.

• 11:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  You're not gonna not, you know?

• 11:48Rich Roll?

  Of course.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  I would have, yeah, I mean, that means I would have done this. But yeah, I don't know. I think the pool's shallow or something.

• 11:56Rich Roll?

  This is the thing, right?

• 11:58Speaker 01

  There's been some fast times though, but.

• 12:00Rich Roll?

  A couple, but by and large, like the mean or the average.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, for everyone being at that peak, it should have been a little bit.

• 12:07Rich Roll?

  They're slow.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Faster.

• 12:08Rich Roll?

  Something like the slowest Olympics in since when? The 90s? Somebody was saying the 90s, was that you?

• 12:14Katie Hoff?

  Don't put that on me.

• 12:16Rich Roll?

  No, it wasn't you.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was you, you said that.

• 12:18Rich Roll?

  No, it was just. Like records and like.

• 12:20Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, I was just looking at, I think at one of the events, it was just like what it took to to make it back top eight. Like, those are the same times that like in the 90s for certain events, which is wild. But then you look at, I mean, you swam in shallow pools, like it is more choppy. It is more wavy. So there is validity to it. I just didn't realize.

• 12:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Katie Hoff?

  How much different.

• 12:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the press finally picked up on this like a day or day and a half ago.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  It seems like it's. It seems like it might be a couple tenths a lap.

• 12:50Katie Hoff?

  Okay.

• 12:51Rich Roll?

  So the

• 12:51Speaker 01

  That's what I'm engaging with.

• 12:53Rich Roll?

  The pool is about two meters deep.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:55Rich Roll?

  And it's meant to, generally it's three meters deep.

• 12:58Katie Hoff?

  So I think the exact numbers is it's supposed to be 2.8 meters and it's 2.2 meters.

• 13:03Rich Roll?

  I see.

• 13:04Katie Hoff?

  Which

• 13:04Rich Roll?

  It's 0.6 of a meter. So it's not quite, it's not quite the differential that I thought, but

• 13:09Speaker 01

  But looking at the

• 13:09Rich Roll?

  The swimmers aren't complaining, like coming off, especially like coming off the walls.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Guys that do a lot of underwater and that being a big part of their, their race.

• 13:18Rich Roll?

  They can't get deep enough.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Like they can't get under the wake as well and, or can't like pitch deep enough and come out.

• 13:25Rich Roll?

  And those cameras on those tracks on the bottom too.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  I didn't really notice it until like the, the backstroke, like they did the underwater shot where the backstrokes jump in. And like, a lot of them were like jumping in and immediately touching the bottom. Like oftentimes you, they won't, you won't get to the bottom when you jump in because it's deeper. So I was like, oh, I didn't realize how shallow it was until I saw those clips. But I don't know how much slower it is, but it's definitely been, because often by now at an Olympics with everyone in this kind of form, you usually see

• 13:53Katie Hoff?

  World record.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  A couple world records, at least one. We haven't seen one, so.

• 13:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, not, not a single one yet.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:01Rich Roll?

  The pool is interesting. I went to finals for the first time the other night. And I had never been to an Olympic competition before, so I don't know how it compares to the other venues, but it is a bit strange. Like you, it's a rugby stadium, right?

• 14:16Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 14:16Rich Roll?

  I think it's a rugby stadium that they built a pool in.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:19Rich Roll?

  And you have to, there's so many different entrances and they're all kind of siloed off. So once you go and you go up these stairs and you're kind of stuck in your section. So there isn't like a lobby kind of area where everyone's gathering and like you see, you see people and stuff like that.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  It's not like a traditional arena.

• 14:35Rich Roll?

  You don't have that. And then even if you have really good seats, they're so, they're set back so far from the pool. That even the best seats, like the pool is still really far away.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was sort of fortunate enough to, the other night to be front row, like behind the starting blocks. But there's a good 25 meters between that row and the starting blocks. And like, you couldn't, you couldn't really see, you know, the actual race happening. It was cool because you felt part of it, but

• 15:01Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  You couldn't really, you know, from a spectator's point of view, like, yeah.

• 15:05Katie Hoff?

  But that's even rare. Like I don't think I've ever been to a meet. I don't think ever where you're on the floor. Have you?

• 15:13Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 15:14Katie Hoff?

  Like to be able to be like, kind of at like a tennis match or something like that's super rare, which I thought was like the fact that I think I saw a video you got to hug.

• 15:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you were like on the.

• 15:22Katie Hoff?

  Emma right after. Like, that's incredible.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Literally on the floor. Yeah. Yeah. Which was pretty cool. Is you. Yeah. But um, I'd never seen that before either.

• 15:31Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  I think the venue is cool. I like the venue personally.

• 15:34Katie Hoff?

  People are saying.

• 15:35Rich Roll?

  What is the team saying? Sorry.

• 15:38Katie Hoff?

  Oh, no. I was just saying that people are saying like that they feel like it's more like a world championships because it's so small and intimate.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:46Katie Hoff?

  But I feel I'm like, I love that it's small and intimate because I think it it makes it louder. I think it makes it less intimidating. But we're also all coming off of US trials, which was at the Lucas Oil Stadium. So I think we got spoiled at Olympic trials.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know or remember, like I went and watched it in Rio, but that's the only other Olympic swimming event I've been to. So I don't know how it measures up to, you might know better.

• 16:13Rich Roll?

  What does MS say? What are some of the?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  What the crowd sizes were back in like Beijing and stuff. I don't remember. Like, I don't know what those were like.

• 16:20Katie Hoff?

  I don't know numbers. I mean, Beijing, I think it was like 15,000, but it was definitely like a much more open.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  All around.

• 16:27Katie Hoff?

  All around. I mean, Athens, they didn't finish the roof.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:31Katie Hoff?

  In 04 and it was outside. So I mean, this is definitely better than Athens.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Well, this is about 15, 16,000, I think.

• 16:37Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  And it's but it's like, uh, just one side and then, you know, the one side is just.

• 16:44Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Um, commentary and media and all that. Um, but I don't know. I've only heard good things about the actual like venue from the athletes because there's a 50 meter warm pool on the other side behind the, um, where the media is. You walk out there and it's like a whole nother facility.

• 17:03Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Which is good. Um, and.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I haven't heard, you know, they're saying the pool's slow, but like overall, it seems like everyone's saying it's like pretty well run.

• 17:15Rich Roll?

  Oh, that's good to hear. That's good to hear.

• 17:17Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like everyone's in the same boat, right? So it's like you can't, it's not like someone gets to swim in a fast pool and someone gets to swim in a slow pool. It's like everyone's in the same, you know, doing the same thing, so.

• 17:27Katie Hoff?

  Except, did you see last night that there was for the four by two hundred freestyle relay, they had lane nine?

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Is that a first? That's like an Olympic first?

• 17:34Katie Hoff?

  I don't know. So it was because it was, I'm gonna mess this up, but it was Israel and Japan tied. And I don't know how they decided, but yeah, so they, they ran nine teams.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  I think it's like the first time they've ever.

• 17:48Rich Roll?

  That's never, I don't think that's ever happened before.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Ever opened up a ninth lane for an Olympic final.

• 17:52Katie Hoff?

  They were way at the, I was watching it and I, I didn't realize and then I was like, oh my God, they're against the wall, which couldn't have helped.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Cause they tied for eighth.

• 18:00Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  And so.

• 18:01Rich Roll?

  You can't do a relay swim off?

• 18:03Speaker 01

  If you tie, I don't, I don't know. I don't think it'd ever happen. So they didn't, they didn't run one.

• 18:08Katie Hoff?

  We don't know what to do.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. So they just opened, I think they just, the solution was opening up a ninth lane for the.

• 18:13Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Cause I think if, you know, if other teams tie for fourth or fifth or whatever, it just, you know, that just pushes out number eight, right? It's just, yeah, but to tie for eighth, in an individual event, you do a swim off, but I don't think they were able to get eight guys back to do like another two hundred free.

• 18:30Rich Roll?

  Before that happened last night, I realized that happened.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. They're not gonna make all eight guys do another four by two, like.

• 18:36Katie Hoff?

  It wouldn't, it wouldn't be right.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  And then the finals, like I think those.

• 18:39Katie Hoff?

  In one day.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:41Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  There probably wasn't any protocol for it.

• 18:44Rich Roll?

  Other than the shallow water, conceivably making the pool slow, one of the things that like hit me just watching it, even though I was like, it's kind of far away. I'm, I'm getting the vibe, like it's exciting, like it's so cool to be here.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:58Rich Roll?

  But also I thought, this is a swim meet. Like this is kind of like every other swim meet I've ever been to. You know what I mean? Like.

• 19:05Katie Hoff?

  It is.

• 19:05Rich Roll?

  You know what? Yeah. There was something comforting about that also.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Like it felt.

• 19:09Rich Roll?

  They're just warming up like you would at any other meet and they're, you know.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  It kind of felt like our, our trials did. Like it's nicer than ours was, not, it's not nicer than theirs was.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  But yeah, just like it felt, it feels like a swim meet when you're there. Yeah.

• 19:26Katie Hoff?

  I mean, I had that moment when I got there night two and I was like, oh my gosh, like, why was I so nervous about this? But it's because I'm in the stands and not swimming. And so I think it, it again puts it in perspective. Like when you're in it, like it's the only thing that you think it's the only thing that matters. You're like, this is everything and it is everything. But it's so interesting to now step back and be in the stands and be like, oh, it's just another swim meet. Dang it. Like, I wish I had some of this back then, but I don't know. Some people do that better than others.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, some people can, can, can have that perspective and some can't. I don't know. But yeah, it is funny when you look at it from that perspective. Oh, it's really just a bunch of people from all over the world getting together and like bracing each other in a pool to see how, to see who can do it in the least amount of time. Yeah.

• 20:18Rich Roll?

  We talked about the Australia-US rivalry a little bit last time, the whole cowbell thing and all of that. But what's the Australian perspective on how, like how do they think about this rivalry?

• 20:30Speaker 01

  I don't know. Like, I think some, some people have been more vocal than others about it and, and maybe sort of given it a, a different sort of feel and view than, than a lot of the team actually, you know, the Australian team actually feels about it. Like, from my perspective, like, and from at least, you know, people that I've trained with and teammates, friends that I have on the team, like, we love the US team, you know? There's a rivalry, but it's like, it's like, yeah, yeah. It's health, like, it's, it's healthy rivalry, you know? We're probably the two greatest swimming nations on the planet and naturally I think we want to lift each other,

• 21:14Speaker 01

  you know, we, we don't want to, we just naturally do lift each other to, to higher standards because, because, you know, Us, the US and Australia as nations are constantly pushing the bar in the pool. Yeah.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  But yeah, I don't really buy into all the other stuff.

• 21:33Katie Hoff?

  I feel, I feel the exact same way. I feel like just the media kind of ran with it. And then there were certain people that were more vocal than others, but I don't know.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  I saw Phelps's video today where he's doing like, I've got one thing to say and he's doing the cow. Yeah.

• 21:46Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Rich Roll?

  And the, the videos of him seeing the video about it and saying, oh, it's on. Like all of this is like, it's just building.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  It like, it made me think that.

• 21:55Rich Roll?

  Enthusiasm for it, the whole event.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  You could see the wheels turning in, in his head of like, do I come back right now?

• 22:02Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, there was definitely.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  I could see that. He was like, I wish I was in there.

• 22:06Rich Roll?

  You don't think she's looking at the times also?

• 22:08Katie Hoff?

  Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  I could, I could see the internal dialogue of like, have I got time to like qualify for this team?

• 22:18Katie Hoff?

  Like maybe at least a hundred five.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:20Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, do you, I don't know, you're eight, I think you're like eight, nine years younger than me, which I hate admitting. But I mean, do you, don't you think so in 2000 with the whole intense rivalry with the like, we're going to strum them like guitars? I feel like it's similar, just social media wasn't around as much in 2000.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  It was just newspapers doing it.

• 22:40Katie Hoff?

  It was just newspapers. So like, people are making this crazy deal out of it. This has been happening for decades.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:46Katie Hoff?

  Decades and it's just fun.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  If it's light, if it's lighthearted luck, you know.

• 22:49Katie Hoff?

  Totally.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  It's fun. Like, I think the smash my guitars thing was pretty funny.

• 22:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 22:53Katie Hoff?

  I mean.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Well, that goes all the way back to Clem.

• 22:56Rich Roll?

  That goes back to Clemmy, right?

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Clemmy broke the world record off that, off that thing and he gets out and he's like, yeah, crazy.

• 23:17Rich Roll?

  So Katie, have you ever been to Australia? Did you compete there?

• 23:20Katie Hoff?

  I did. The last time I competed there was the world championships in 2007.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:25Katie Hoff?

  Where they put the pool in the Rod Labor Arena.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:28Katie Hoff?

  And it was, I mean, that's one of my favorite experiences, pools. I mean, Australia in general is my favorite place.

• 23:33Rich Roll?

  Australia has no shortage of like epic pools.

• 23:36Katie Hoff?

  No, no.

• 23:37Rich Roll?

  And, and one of.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  I've watched replays of that meeting and they look pretty cool.

• 23:40Rich Roll?

  But one of the great pools is the Gold Coast Aquatic Center where you train.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:45Rich Roll?

  Your home pool, like this. This facility is unreal.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Really?

• 23:49Rich Roll?

  It's like right on the water. It's just, the weather is perfect. There's two 50-meter pools, like this incredible strength training facility that

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like two 50-meter pools.

• 23:59Rich Roll?

  Everything is like really nice.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Two gyms, like a diving pool, the dive well, a 25, like a shallow 25-meter. I learned to swim. It's a big, like a big facility.

• 24:11Rich Roll?

  It's your hometown. That's where you learn. You and Emma train there.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:15Rich Roll?

  But a lot of the Olympic team was part of that training group, yes?

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:20Rich Roll?

  Who else on the team was part of your group?

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Michael Bowle is the coach.

• 24:23Rich Roll?

  He's the coach. He's now stepping down.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  He was Stephanie Rice's coach. Yes. That was sort of his first big athlete, was Steph back in the day and then has since sort of had success at pretty much every game since, particularly with Emma in Tokyo. Now has Kaylee McKeown, who just won the 100 back last night.

• 24:46Rich Roll?

  And Rock, like the most epic pair of spectacles of all time. Did you see that?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 24:52Rich Roll?

  Can we talk about her Prada, her Prada frames for a minute?

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Prada frames are sick, yeah. She got those a couple of months ago.

• 24:57Rich Roll?

  Those are unreal.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, she had these kind of other ones and then one day she rocks up in the Pradas to training because we're training, we're training in the same group and they're pretty sick, yeah.

• 25:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  So I'm glad she wore them on the podium.

• 25:08Rich Roll?

  I know, that was a very like cool move.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:11Rich Roll?

  Especially to do it in Paris.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:14Rich Roll?

  It was, it was thought out.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:16Rich Roll?

  It was planned.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  So we

• 25:18Rich Roll?

  She looks great in them anyway.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:20Rich Roll?

  Go ahead.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  We had, we had a great group there, like it was myself, Emma, Kaylee, Lonnie Pauster, the distance, so he like, Bowle has everyone from 50 meters to 1500 and has had like medals in pretty much like most distances, which he's a great coach. Splits up his program really well. He's probably a sort of a, maybe a Bob Bowman style equivalent Yeah, I feel like in, in Australia. And who else? We had Brendan Smith, who's on the IM for, the 400 IM for Australia.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  I had Matt Horton, who retired last year. A few other guys, but yeah.

• 26:03Katie Hoff?

  That's a lot. I mean, that's more than you say Bob Bowman. Bob Bowman doesn't have that, even that many. Like, that's like, what, what quality, I guess, do you feel like makes him that much of a legend?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Um, his, I think his, uh, personality, his ability to people manage.

• 26:24Katie Hoff?

  Yes.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  To manage personalities, which I think is half, half of what coaching is. And to manage personalities and almost be, there's a psychological element, right? Like, you almost have to be a psychologist as well as a coach. He has a very calm demeanor, exterior at least. I don't know what, I'm sure there's more going on inside when we're at meets, but, um, he's very good at instilling a sense of calm, calm confidence in, in his athletes, which I appreciated for the years that I was with him. And I think, you know, I think coaches, like, there's different coaches for different athletes,

• 27:08Speaker 01

  but I think the ones that sort of, um, merge well with, with his personality do really well under him. Ones that he's, he's, he's really tough, but in a, in a calm sort of way. Yeah. He's also hilarious, so that helps.

• 27:28Rich Roll?

  And now he's stepping down.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. He says, I don't know. We've all got money on like, how long that'll, how long that'll last, but he says he's retiring.

• 27:37Katie Hoff?

  Like a John or Van Chek, who retired like four times.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. He'll be, he'll be back on deck in six months, like.

• 27:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he, he's not gonna be able to hang it up for very long. But I read that Mel Marshall, the Loughborough coach from the UK, who's Adam Peaty's coach, was, is taking over the role.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  She's taking over the group, yeah.

• 27:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, she's taking over that role. I mean, she seems like an amazing coach.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And I think she's, she's, I think she's wanted to, they've come down for camps a couple times, like, she's brought the brutes down to train, like, with us a couple times, and I think she's expressed interest in.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Train, living and working in that area for a long time because it's so nice. You know, I'm sure the welcome weather changed from the UK.

• 28:21Rich Roll?

  It's a big difference.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  So she's going to be taking over that program back there. So I'm sure it'll be great for, great for the group and couldn't be a better coach to sort of take on what, what Bolly built there.

• 28:35Rich Roll?

  Does Bull sort of stepping down impact your thoughts around continuing or?

• 28:41Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 28:42Rich Roll?

  Are those thoughts independent of that?

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's independent of that, you know, like, um, as much as I love him and, and, and feel like I, if I were to continue that he'd be who I'd like to stay under. I think that come, having come back in a pretty sort of long wolf fashion. I have this idea that I could do it anywhere with anyone if I wanted to. Um, cause I did so much of my early training, like, you know, almost alone in, in, you know, 25 yard pools with no line rope sector and COVID and, you know, all that stuff. So, um, yeah, I don't know. I'd sort of have to look at what else was around. Yeah.

• 29:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:28Katie Hoff?

  I'm really interested in like, I, I've never had a pull of these two things. I like, I was in swimming and I was locked into swimming. That's all I was going to do. Like, are you right now, and maybe your six weeks removed, so maybe it was too early to ask this question. But you have this incredible talent in music and you have this incredible talent in swimming. So right now, like was your brain, where is your brain being pulled and in what direction?

• 29:52Speaker 01

  It's hard to, hard to decipher right now. I think I'm too close to it still. Um, I really had to make a conscious effort in those couple of years to really lock in and not be pulled towards, you know, um, some of the other stuff, but I.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  I think if if I was to come back to swimming, I'd be able to have a nice balance of

• 30:19Speaker 01

  still maintaining that part of my life. But there are things I want to do outside of the sport for at least a little bit.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  My plan is not to slip too far off the wagon, you know, like I'm still lifting.

• 30:33Rich Roll?

  Pretty fit, like, how can I hold on to this without, like, you know,

• 30:36Speaker 01

  I don't wanna.

• 30:37Rich Roll?

  Impinging on my creative lifestyle.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, so like, you know, I think I've built such good habits over the last like four years that I don't plan on just becoming a slob. So I think if I can stay, you know, if I can stay fit and stay strong, I think that, you know, that at least over the next sort of six, 12 months, I think that makes it a little easier if you do decide you want to, you know,

• 31:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  slot back in that, you know, you're not, you haven't put on 20 kilos and, you know,

• 31:07Rich Roll?

  Nobody wants, nobody wants to see that on you.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 31:11Katie Hoff?

  Wait, was that, but I never saw, like, was that how much you had to lose?

• 31:15Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 31:16Katie Hoff?

  Okay.

• 31:16Rich Roll?

  No, he was like a, he was like a skinny guy.

• 31:18Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, I was gonna say.

• 31:19Rich Roll?

  He became like this.

• 31:20Katie Hoff?

  You just build a ton of muscle.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  I was, yeah, I like, growing up competing in swimming, like, I always sort of had a swimming frame, I guess, but I was, it needed to be built upon.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Four years ago, I was pretty, I was pretty skinny, so, yeah, but no, I never had any weight on, yeah.

• 31:39Rich Roll?

  What I'm excited for you to explore is returning to the songwriting and the performing, but doing it on your own terms, like, you basically just broke all these rules, like, all these people said, what you're trying to do is impossible, it's a fool's errand, and you committed to it and you took it like way beyond. Any place that anybody thought realistically that you would go with it.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:07Rich Roll?

  And that has to expand your sense of possibility, right? And you are a musician, you're a songwriter, you're a performer, you're all of these things. Those things haven't gone away, they've just been kind of latent for a while. And now you get to return to that, but you get to do it with this renewed sense of capacity, right? Like, you don't have to go back to LA and plug yourself into some crazy machine. Like, you get to do it the way that you want to do it.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it added a nice, one, it sort of added a nice layer to, I suppose, the story of my life so far. But two, it definitely did instill in me a sense of, kind of do it however you want.

• 32:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  You know, I think it also, it also, swimming teaches you a sense of self-discipline and self-reliance that few other things can, can teach you. I think, I think competitive sport.

• 33:07Rich Roll?

  Sport, yeah.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  At that level, in any sport, teaches you that, but I learned it through swimming, you know?

• 33:14Speaker 01

  That can be applied to whatever else, you know? So I'm really excited to, I suppose, like, have that asset to, and set of, you know, tools to be able to apply to whatever it is, you know, I want to do next, you know? But I'm particularly excited to apply that to music and entertainment and sort of. The thing, the thing though about like the entertainment industry and all that and the music industry is that it's not so black and white as, as a work turns into progress or success.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Rule, like rule or theory as, say, sport is, you know, sports very much, what you put in is what you get out kind of situation where, you know?

• 33:56Speaker 01

  The music industry, there's, you know, there's that whole shaking hands and kissing babies side, which I just, I don't enjoy, like or enjoy. It was made to do too much of it as a teenager that I'm just like, have no interest in, you know? So I definitely would do it on my own terms again.

• 34:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there, I think we talked about this last time, like there's this tension between effort and output, whereas in swimming, it's pretty binary, like the more you put in, the more you get out of it and you learn to be this.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  To an extent, I suppose.

• 34:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, there's, there's caveats to that.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  For the most part, yeah.

• 34:35Rich Roll?

  But it is very much like.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  It's hard to go over the edge.

• 34:38Rich Roll?

  Really, the harder you work, like you're putting yourself in the better position to like succeed or achieve your goals. Whereas anything that is creative, there's also, you have to hold it loosely, like you can't, you can't force a song.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 34:50Rich Roll?

  There's the business aspect of entertainment, but that actual creative aspect of it is more of a, of an allowing, like you can't like, you can't like take that swimming attitude and like, you could go into the studio and say, I'm not leaving the studio until I have six songs, but you also have to like step back and it's a different mindset.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Like a, like a set, you know, like the way, you, way you would in, in, in sport. Yeah, you gotta, it's a push and pull.

• 35:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a different skill set.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:19Rich Roll?

  That you have to like.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:20Rich Roll?

  Kind of resurface in yourself.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Which I have to sort of reteach myself, you know?

• 35:23Katie Hoff?

  Well, I was gonna ask that, like, did that, cause I feel like some level of having the looseness in swimming is actually really healthy.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Is good, yeah.

• 35:31Katie Hoff?

  And so did that help or did you continue that when you came back to swimming?

• 35:36Rich Roll?

  That's a great question.

• 35:37Katie Hoff?

  Did you, were you able to have a little looseness because the fact that you're here and you're like, I'm at peace, I, I'm in awe of that, you know what I mean? So I think, I'm wondering, you tell me if that played a part.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I suppose so, like approaching it in that in that way. Um, I did have to keep reminding myself of it through that process cause I did find times where I was holding on too tight, you know? And and that would that would negatively negatively affect my performance. So you go, no, I need to keep that like musical approach to this a little bit. And when I did swim my best, it was, you know, I'm sure it was the same for for you or for any swimmer. Like when you when you feel you're swimming your best, it feels free and it feels loose and it feels.

• 36:23Katie Hoff?

  Flowy.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it feels musical in a way, like it it feels like a a dance. Yeah.

• 36:30Rich Roll?

  You also have the added benefit of just you have this other love. So like retiring from swimming doesn't create like an identity crisis for you.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  That that's what I'm grateful for. And I think maybe that's that plays a part in the peace side of things too. Because I wasn't afraid of what I was gonna

• 36:48Speaker 01

  want to do after or having to find something else, you know? I'm very grateful to have had built this or just to just to naturally have this other great passion that, you know, can certainly sort of ease the, you know, ease the um post sort of swimming blues that, you know, I still kind of am getting because you're so used to a very particular regiment. But it's nice to sort of have something else to.

• 37:18Rich Roll?

  You find yourself waking up at five or whatever it is.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So funny.

• 37:23Rich Roll?

  Eating a giant breakfast and you're like, actually.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Even some of my mates that I'm here with.

• 37:27Katie Hoff?

  I know, like I actually don't need to consume this many calories right now.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  I don't need three breakfasts. I can just have an espresso and like a little croissant and, you know, that's enough.

• 37:37Katie Hoff?

  I'm I am, and I tell you, I am loving, that is the one thing you're done with swimming or your sport. And I would just do that. I'd be like, I don't need to consume an insane amount of protein. You know what? I'm just gonna have a latte and a croissant and that is good enough.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's good. And also when you're like lifting or I was talking about this, one of my other buddies who I'm here with, he he um unfortunately missed qualifying for the Oz team as well.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Um, he actually won the, he actually won the 200 flight trials, but wasn't uh, Australia has these.

• 38:10Rich Roll?

  Oh, it didn't make a credible standard?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Time standards that they're.

• 38:14Rich Roll?

  What did he swim in the two, in the two fly?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  One thirty five, maybe to, to fly or?

• 38:18Rich Roll?

  And he won trials.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Maybe fifty six, but won trials, but wasn't under the, the, the qual time, so.

• 38:25Katie Hoff?

  Oh.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  But he's over here and we're, we're going around to see some of the swimming and um, you know, he's like me, I guess he's sort of accepted that fact and swimming's so cutthroat, man, like.

• 38:36Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  It's crazy, you know, um, but uh, we, we were, we were at the gym like yesterday lifting like, oh, we don't have to like. Destroy ourselves, you know, we can just like, we can just like exercise to feel good, to get some endorphins, you know?

• 38:54Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Like, we don't have to just, you know, punish ourselves, yeah. Like, wow, we can just, we can actually stop here after, you know, just four sets and like. Go get breakfast and, you know, feel good for the day.

• 39:08Katie Hoff?

  Like enjoy, enjoy the session.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Not going like sleep for two hours now. Yeah, it's great. Yeah.

• 39:12Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Rich Roll?

  I have to ask you, uh, I love the little clip that you did with the uh, inspired unemployed guys. I love those guys. Those guys are, do you know those guys? The inspired unemployed.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Which one did you see? Cause we.

• 39:24Rich Roll?

  The one where you were getting out of the pool, taking the cap off.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, cool. So we did the, we did a longer, I think it came out today. It's like, um. I make, they ra, I teach them how to swim butterfly kind of, they race each other and then I race the winner with like a handicap.

• 39:38Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  It's pretty funny. I'll send you the, the clip.

• 39:41Rich Roll?

  You don't know who these guys are, Katie?

• 39:42Katie Hoff?

  No, I need to look them up.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Australian comedians.

• 39:44Rich Roll?

  These guys, yeah, they're, they're two of the funniest dudes you're ever gonna, I mean, how do you explain it?

• 39:50Speaker 01

  They're like, um, so the humor's very Aussie, like, um, but they just, they just. Make these really comedic videos on YouTube and Instagram reels and stuff.

• 40:01Rich Roll?

  And they have a show in Australia.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, yeah.

• 40:04Katie Hoff?

  Like a YouTube show, like a TV show?

• 40:06Rich Roll?

  They were like two dudes who would make these hilarious little videos on Instagram or TikToks or whatever. They're just like two, two Aussie blokes, but they're really funny together and they just blew up. They, they're so good that they just developed this huge follow. Yeah, they have a very funny podcast.

• 40:20Katie Hoff?

  I love that.

• 40:21Rich Roll?

  And they make, they, and now they, they get to go to all these amazing events and make funny videos with like famous people. So they go to F1 and they did stuff with Daniel Ricciardo and whatever. Now they're at the Olympics doing stuff with Cody and others, I'm sure.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're doing like their correspondence for the Australian team or like something.

• 40:40Katie Hoff?

  It's kind of like, it's like the buttery bros in the CrossFit world in the US, like where it's like.

• 40:44Rich Roll?

  They're just, they're just two, they're, they kind of like are like.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  They're normal guys.

• 40:50Rich Roll?

  They're like blue collar guys.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Relatable though.

• 40:52Katie Hoff?

  Oh, that's so cool.

• 40:53Rich Roll?

  It's a very Australian.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  It is like Aussie humor and stuff.

• 40:56Katie Hoff?

  Which, what, like, I always hear people say like, oh, it's like Aussie humor, like, what, what is Aussie humor? Like, why is it different?

• 41:04Katie Hoff?

  Like I don't, I don't act, I feel like I'm good friends with Steph Rice and I always laugh at her jokes. So like, I don't know what the difference is.

• 41:11Rich Roll?

  It's a lot of taking the piss.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:13Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Lot, lot of sarcasm.

• 41:16Rich Roll?

  Trying to take people down and off.

• 41:17Katie Hoff?

  Okay.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have this thing called like, which, which is one of the things I don't love about Australia, which is like, we call it tall poppy syndrome, which you guys don't have as much in the US where if someone kind of like, gets a bit too successful or, you know.

• 41:35Katie Hoff?

  Kind of cocky.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Not even cocky, not even cocky, just like successful.

• 41:40Katie Hoff?

  Oh, no.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  In any way, like in business, where like, what, like, people just start to try and cut you down. And I think it's, I don't know what, why that is in the culture. Um, and that's why a lot of Australians that are moving overseas abroad to like further their, their careers. Like they might go to the States or whatever, because you guys have this really beautiful culture of like, you know, lifting each other up and not sort of downplaying success, which I like about the States. And we, we probably need a bit more of that in Australia, but we, you know, that's also, I think, what keeps a lot of Aussies like humble. But sometimes I feel like it's out of fear of being like, you know.

• 42:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:20Katie Hoff?

  Wow.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  It's a little bit, um, we're probably a little more like, like judgmental of each other than Americans are of each other. You know?

• 42:31Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  But then like, you know, sometimes we have the perspective of like, you guys do it to the point where like, you guys like to flex, you know?

• 42:38Katie Hoff?

  Like the cocky Americans.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you guys, so it goes, yeah.

• 42:42Rich Roll?

  Extreme.

• 42:43Katie Hoff?

  Well, yeah, where we're constant, like, sometimes I feel like, yeah, we can go like over, overboard of like, oh, my gosh, that was amazing that, you know, that is definitely in our, our nature.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, whereas like, it's almost like in Australia, if like, if you drive like too flashy a car, like everyone's like, what the hell are you doing?

• 43:00Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  Get rid of that thing, you know, whereas in the States, a lot of places would be like, man, like, congrats, like, you bought a whatever, you know?

• 43:06Katie Hoff?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:07Rich Roll?

  To an extent, I don't know.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Maybe that's just LA, like, growing up there.

• 43:10Rich Roll?

  I mean, you can get, it can be douchey.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  I don't, yeah.

• 43:14Katie Hoff?

  A hundred percent. I feel like especially in LA, like, I used to live in LA and it's like, yeah, like, you look at that person.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  It goes overboard, yeah.

• 43:21Katie Hoff?

  Calm down, calm down. What are you trying to overcome?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But I suppose what I'm trying to say is we, we sort of have that, we call it tall puppy syndrome, where you can.

• 43:29Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Which are, you know, to an extent, it's all right, cause it, it, um, I think it keeps everyone kind of grounded, but, but at the same time, I think you need a bit of, you know?

• 43:39Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  encouragement, a bit of, go do whatever you want.

• 43:42Rich Roll?

  Do you think you would ever move back to the States?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Not full time. I could see myself going back and forth, but I think of just being back close to family. Um, you know, having my girlfriend and just having built this like really nice community of, of friends back home. I think, uh, I enjoy and feel a lot happier in Australia than I did when I was overseas. Cause it was weird, like in my 10 years in LA, like I probably made th- three friends that I've like.

• 44:11Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  You know, been able to maintain. Um, I don't know if that's just the transitory nature of like the city, cause everyone's just coming and going and from somewhere else and whatever. But like, I've been able to really cultivate some really lifelong or what I hope to be lifelong friendships back in Australia. And like, I don't wanna live too far from that, yeah.

• 44:32Rich Roll?

  Is, am I gonna move to Paris with you?

• 44:35Speaker 01

  I'm planting the seeds, Adam. I'm watering it every day.

• 44:38Rich Roll?

  This is the moment.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Every day she gets a nice little aesthetic video of like a beautiful street with like a guy playing accordion and I'm like, you know, and I'm going, I really like it here.

• 44:48Rich Roll?

  You're like, this could be every day.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Like, let's try three months.

• 45:05Rich Roll?

  Would you swim in the Seine if given the opportunity?

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Have they given it the green light yet or what's the deal?

• 45:11Rich Roll?

  So here's the, here's the latest. Obviously, we recapped this the other day.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Because they moved the triathlon yesterday, didn't they?

• 45:18Rich Roll?

  It's a day to day thing. So yesterday was supposed to be the triathlon.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:20Rich Roll?

  The men were going off first. They all got up at 4 a.m., went down to the start, called it off. The water wasn't testing properly, so they said, come back tomorrow.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  How are they going to do enough in 24 hours to like clean?

• 45:33Rich Roll?

  But check this out. Exactly. What day is it today? It's Wednesday. 31st. So I woke up at like 4:30 this morning and it was, it was raining, it was raining. And I'm like, well, there, there's no way they're going to the triathlon today.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:45Rich Roll?

  Sure enough, women went off on time and men were just finishing the race when you arrived here. Isn't that so concerning? So they both went and the whole thing was...

• 45:53Speaker 01

  But if they called it too, too dirty yesterday, what's, how have they done enough to change that?

• 45:58Rich Roll?

  Exactly. Your, your guess is as good, as good as mine. I don't know the answer to that.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  And are they still going to do the open water?

• 46:04Rich Roll?

  That's my question. My understanding, I was talking to somebody at the pool the other day who has insight, a former Olympian who's talking to a bunch of the swimmers. And as far as I understand it, it's similar, like the, the, the day that the event is supposed to happen, they'll show up for it and they'll let them know.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 46:25Rich Roll?

  And if it's, and so here's the thing.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Are you warming up?

• 46:27Rich Roll?

  Let me finish this thought.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Where do they warm up to the, for the 5 and 10K stuff?

• 46:31Rich Roll?

  I have no idea. Maybe, maybe in the Seine itself, right? So if the, if the water isn't, isn't testing properly, they'll send them home and they'll, they'll come back the following day, same thing. And they'll do that. I think three times.

• 46:44Katie Hoff?

  That's like the rule.

• 46:45Rich Roll?

  And then if it's still not clean enough, they have a backup, like a B plan, which I think is hosting the open water competition where they're doing the kayaking. Is that right? Some other, some other water related event.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's, that's happening here. So they have.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Maybe the rowing. No, is the rowing in the center?

• 47:05Rich Roll?

  Is it rowing? I don't know.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  I don't know where the rowing is.

• 47:06Katie Hoff?

  They have a second B.

• 47:08Rich Roll?

  Where they're doing some kind of competition.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  I'm mind blown how they were able to get.

• 47:13Rich Roll?

  But can you imagine the mindset of like going to do your thing?

• 47:17Katie Hoff?

  To prelims and then being like, actually.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Thinking like your, your heat is this morning. No, it's not. Okay. It's tomorrow now. No, it's not. It's the next day.

• 47:23Rich Roll?

  Like, how does that impact your men's all game?

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's huge because you're so used to knowing something's happening on a certain day at a certain time.

• 47:30Katie Hoff?

  I mean, your whole plan leading up to it, like, I don't know about you, but I had like a three day out. Like, here's the pace I'm doing. Here's what I'm doing like each time. So you would keep doing it and then you would.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  Well, you're timing your prep into this specific day, right? Like you have things you're doing each day leading in and.

• 47:46Katie Hoff?

  And just mentally, like, okay, like you lock in 24 hours out.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 47:50Katie Hoff?

  So it's like to lock in, okay, no, no, no. Okay. Now I'm locking again.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  You shut everything down.

• 47:54Katie Hoff?

  The emotional energy would be unreal.

• 47:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So if you're Katie Grimes right now, I mean, that's, that's like, what do you say to her to help her get sorted?

• 48:06Katie Hoff?

  I actually have talked to her a lot this meet before 400 I am. And then she saw the 1500 prelim and unfortunately didn't advance. And I think for her, she's such a programmed person. And I think that's why we get along so well because I'm like that person too. And I was like, you need to just keep, keep recreating the plan. Like, okay, like, here's what I'm doing. Like even from the 400 I am final, she had the prelim the next morning. She got back at 2am and then she has to get up. And my advice was like compartmentalize the emotion, make a plan minute to minute. Like for some people, that is like the worst thing you can do. But for her, she was like, okay, cool.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  She knew that, yeah.

• 48:43Katie Hoff?

  My advice is like, okay, like just make the plan, assuming it's going to be happening.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:48Katie Hoff?

  But then the second you find out, make a new plan, like, don't start flailing. And I think it would be very easy to be like, oh, wait, I had my plan and not sit down again. Take the time, be in the moment and create a new plan. But for someone who is that type of person, it's the only way to get through it, I think.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  And I think you'd hope that, well, at least for us, like, I don't know, our coach would sort of help you try and emulate.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  You know, heats and finals stuff in training. Like we do a suited morning and evening and you treat it like it was a heat and heat and final or whatever, heat and semi, you know? And to go through, you know, not, not to a T, but similar processes, uh, um, as you would on like a race day with the, this, you know, a similar sort of downtime in between and, you know, similar sort of pre-activation and all that stuff. And so ideally like you get used to it and you can, you know, if you're good, you can run it back and keep doing it.

• 49:48Rich Roll?

  The added ripple here being all the bus rides, you know, the village is like an hour away and the buses aren't running well.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Nah, she was going from the compul to the village, which is, the village is north of the compul and this bus driver's taking them all the way to the south of Paris.

• 50:07Katie Hoff?

  Because of the road closures? Oh, because they got lost?

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Just like the bus driver didn't know where to go or something.

• 50:13Katie Hoff?

  Was there a meeting?

• 50:14Speaker 01

  She's like, I'm in the south of Paris now. We're going all the way back up. So she was on this bus for two hours or something after just having done a, um, just like an evening swim last night, gets back at like nine PM to a, the village.

• 50:28Katie Hoff?

  That's so frustrating.

• 50:29Rich Roll?

  And then there's the food shortage situation.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  Didn't hear about that.

• 50:33Rich Roll?

  You haven't heard about this? So apparently, maybe it's been rectified now, but I heard this at the, at the pool the other night also, that it's a big problem. And when those buses are running late after finals and those athletes, whether it's swimming or some other sport, they're getting back to the village at like midnight, 1 a.m. and they're, all there is is like bread rolls to eat. There's no food.

• 50:54Katie Hoff?

  Yes.

• 50:55Rich Roll?

  Which is like, the whole thing with France and Paris was like, we know how to do great food.

• 50:59Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  And late too, like people eat at whatever hour, yeah.

• 51:04Rich Roll?

  Uh, and that, that's been a real issue as far as I understand.

• 51:08Katie Hoff?

  I've heard that too. Yeah. I mean, I, I hope it, I feel like just like they see.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  When every cafe in the city is still open at midnight serving food, the one thing they should have is like.

• 51:16Rich Roll?

  When you walk outside the pool venue, there's all these hotels right there.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:21Rich Roll?

  Like right there.

• 51:22Katie Hoff?

  I know.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Still serving, whatever. Yeah. The lot, the first thing they should have is stuff available for the athletes.

• 51:27Katie Hoff?

  Well, then there's like the road closures, which has been a huge thing of like, you can't actually, I'm assuming the buses deal with it too, but you can't actually go through certain parts. So.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:37Katie Hoff?

  Uh, Shawn Johnson, um, who's, was legendary gymnast. Said she had to get out in the middle of the interstate and run a mile because she was going to be late for finals and she was a correspondent and she said she showed up. She was like, I look like I jumped in the pool, but.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 51:51Rich Roll?

  That's insane.

• 51:52Katie Hoff?

  It's like so stressful.

• 51:54Rich Roll?

  The other day, the skateboarders who skated, the bus broke down and then they just all got out and were like, no sweat. And they just all skated to the venue.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  On their way to actually compete.

• 52:02Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 52:02Katie Hoff?

  So, so convenient.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  That's kind of about us, but like, still, that's, yeah. Fuck, it's an Olympics though, right? Like the logistics. I mean, you'd hope they have it down, but stuff's gonna go wrong.

• 52:15Katie Hoff?

  Yeah. I feel like at every Olympics, there's something like in Beijing, the sky was orange for the majority of the, you know, because of the pollution. So I feel like there's always.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  And you gotta be adaptable.

• 52:26Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, there's always something. It's just, you just have to kind of pivot.

• 52:30Rich Roll?

  Right. The mindset training.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Cardboard beds.

• 52:33Rich Roll?

  I heard they're not that bad though.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:34Katie Hoff?

  I heard that too.

• 52:35Rich Roll?

  But the mindset training being like resilience, like be prepared for all of these unforeseen variables that are, yeah, they're gonna happen because they will and they're gonna throw you off your game. And if you're so rigid about like, this is my thing, you're gonna get thrown off your game and you're gonna, you're gonna crumble.

• 52:55Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  I think adaptability is so important, especially when you just, if you're an athlete competing globally.

• 53:01Rich Roll?

  But can you imagine coming to the Olympics with like a schedule like Michael Phelps, where it's literally just like multiple races at every session, like without, just relentless.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  And if there's an hour shift, like left or right.

• 53:13Rich Roll?

  If you're back and you're getting one hour less of sleep.

• 53:15Katie Hoff?

  No, I couldn't. I mean, my first four days, I swam four 400s and six 200s in Beijing. Like, I couldn't imagine being like, oh, but like you're gonna get back at 2 a.m. Oh, and you're not gonna have food. Oh, like I.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Was it better there? It was like, pretty predictable?

• 53:32Katie Hoff?

  Yeah. Food was not an issue there. And then I would say we got back, there was some commute. There's always some commute, but it wasn't two hours for sure, but.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  And they weren't taking wrong, wrong directions.

• 53:42Katie Hoff?

  They weren't going to the south of France. No.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:45Rich Roll?

  What are some of the other things that you've noticed just being here in Paris that people at home who are watching it on TV might not understand or appreciate or realize about the experience of attending?

• 53:58Speaker 01

  It's pretty beautiful in the city. Like, it's a beautiful city to host games. Like, walking past Saffal Tower and seeing the rings just illuminated in the evening is just awesome, you know? That kind of stuff. Um.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  And it's, it's quite, it's nice to be, like, it's not that busy, as we were saying before.

• 54:15Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Like.

• 54:16Rich Roll?

  It's shockingly unbusy.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:18Rich Roll?

  I've found.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  You can get a, you can, you can still catch Ubers around, you can, you know, ride the city bikes. The metro's not shoulder to shoulder, at least from my experience having taken it. Um, so it's been like, it's quite enjoyable for the spectator at least.

• 54:36Katie Hoff?

  It feels like.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Like, it's so nice for the athlete.

• 54:39Rich Roll?

  Business as usual. Like, I've, I've been here for a while, so I sure feel like I live here now. And it's just like, oh, it's just, this is life here.

• 54:45Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  I had a couple buddies.

• 54:47Rich Roll?

  The city would be overrun, it would be really difficult to get around. And there are like those zones and there are challenges.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  It's fairly clean.

• 54:53Rich Roll?

  But that's all right around the venues around the river.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. In, in the city, it feels like business as usual. Part of the, you know, some of the areas that are kind of blocked off, I think opening ceremony, like you couldn't cross the river, but like, the next day they opened it all back up again. And, um, yeah, it's kind of nice for the spectator, as I say.

• 55:10Katie Hoff?

  For the spectator. I also feel like they're just so warm and accepting. Like, I have definitely put in, because you know how sometimes you put in the Uber, like the actual place, and then it'll give you four different options, and I instantly have a freak out because I'm like, what's the option? And there, they'll come find me, like, they're just like, that is not happening in the States. Like, they're mad, you're getting a one star review.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  If you're not on the corner that you say you are, at the time they arrive, like, they're, they're cancelling on you.

• 55:36Katie Hoff?

  But they're so, they're like, it's okay, I got, like, I just feel like they're like very welcoming to, they understand, you know, we're not from here. And so that's been, I think, a surprise for me.

• 55:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that whole sense that Parisians hate, hate Americans or hate English.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not, I haven't had that experience at all.

• 55:51Katie Hoff?

  No, not at all.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  I've had plenty of, um, it's welcoming to, you know, English speakers and all kinds of people. So, and I've, well, I had, I had caught up with a couple mates that live in Paris, like, they're Parisians, um. The other night and they were saying it's it's quieter than it usually is at this time of year.

• 56:13Katie Hoff?

  Okay.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Cause summer tourism is usually packed.

• 56:15Rich Roll?

  And and the Parisians have all left.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  They the Parisians have mostly left and they were like saying it's surprisingly, this is quiet for for July.

• 56:24Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  So.

• 56:26Katie Hoff?

  Makes sense.

• 56:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:28Rich Roll?

  Quieter than it would be ordinarily is like a weird thing.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  For during Olympics, yeah.

• 56:33Katie Hoff?

  During Olympics.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:34Katie Hoff?

  You would think, but I feel like, I mean, the French pride is palpable in the pool. I mean, Lyon is getting chanted like every five seconds.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  I was at the first four hundred I M. Final the other night and it was deafening in there.

• 56:46Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Like, which is cool to see the the patriotism for.

• 56:50Katie Hoff?

  So cool.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  The French here.

• 56:52Katie Hoff?

  Like, I'm not even, yeah, I'm I'm sitting there an American and I'm like, I'm about to start chanting his name because it's just infectious.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  America does that, probably the other the other huge presence in the stands. I think I would say France and the U. S. Have the biggest presence in the stands. So you you're either hearing like LA, someone, LA Lyon, they're going LA Lyon, whatever, or it's USA, USA.

• 57:12Katie Hoff?

  Yes, I agree.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  Fortunately, no cowbell, though.

• 57:15Rich Roll?

  I was with a small contingent of, of, yeah, no cowbell. Come on, the Australians get it.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  I'm not a cowbell.

• 57:22Rich Roll?

  I understand.

• 57:23Katie Hoff?

  Well, that's the thing. It's not actually, I'm actually really surprised that there's not a, because at trials, they were handing them out left and right.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm surprised.

• 57:31Katie Hoff?

  Shaking it. I'm like, oh, my gosh.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  I'm also surprised out of spite that someone didn't come with like fifty cowbells in a bag and was like handing them out to all the U. S. Spectators, you know?

• 57:39Katie Hoff?

  Or like one massive one.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:43Rich Roll?

  Have you had any surreal moments, any like shoulder to shoulder moments with celebrities? You bump into Snoop Dogg, anything like that?

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Not yet. No, not yet. Okay, yeah.

• 57:53Katie Hoff?

  Flavor Flav.

• 57:53Rich Roll?

  He was at the pool the other day, though, wasn't he?

• 57:55Katie Hoff?

  He was sitting with Megan Dressel, watching, like, they're just hanging out.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's been some cool, like, people have come and really seen, watched the swimming. I think maybe Tom Cruise went and watched the swimming.

• 58:05Rich Roll?

  Oh, he did?

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Gaga went out. There's been a couple people.

• 58:08Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, Bill Gates. I actually, I was so upset, so I had to do this video with someone and we were trying to keep it quiet of like the doors leading out to the stands. And apparently Bill Gates was trying to get through and they blocked him. I'm like, next time, just a rule here.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  They didn't recognize him, I guess.

• 58:26Katie Hoff?

  Let Bill Gates through. I will, I would love to meet. This is a stupid video that I don't really need. And I have, he's like in the corner, like you can see him like kind of trying to get through. When they blocked him out.

• 58:36Rich Roll?

  No one's helping him?

• 58:37Katie Hoff?

  No, they were like, I'm sorry, sir, you can't go through because of my video.

• 58:42Rich Roll?

  Oh my god.

• 58:43Katie Hoff?

  Mortified, mortified. I'm like, next time, he can come through. It's fine.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Be in my.

• 58:48Katie Hoff?

  We can do it again. You can come in the video.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  That's funny.

• 58:50Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 58:51Rich Roll?

  So Katie, you're doing videos for Team USA where you're grabbing certain people and just doing like short, like sort of man on the street sort of thing?

• 58:59Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, for Team USA and then Yahoo Sports as well. So just kind of similar, like the behind the scenes of what it's like to be here. It's hard to get actual athletes a lot, but I actually got Noah Lyles, which was cool.

• 59:13Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 59:14Katie Hoff?

  Um, so I'm holding that video for when he competes, but it's, I feel like the thing here is just like, yeah, like people want to see, people want to see like where you're going and like, I have to kind of remind myself of, for us, it's kind of status quo, like going to the pool or going to Team USA House or all that.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  It is cool through the city. They got all the different like houses of different countries.

• 59:33Katie Hoff?

  So cool.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  And they're often, they're like little pop ups all around central Paris, which is cool.

• 59:39Katie Hoff?

  Cause Team, I'm assuming Australia has a house?

• 59:42Speaker 01

  I haven't been there yet, but yeah, yeah.

• 59:44Rich Roll?

  I haven't been to any of those. Well, I'm like Team USA House, they, they're charging a little, little cash to get in.

• 59:50Katie Hoff?

  I have a pass.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  It's a huge old building, right?

• 59:53Katie Hoff?

  It's an epic building and it's, I mean, that, I was there on night one and that again was just surreal. It was when the Americans won gold in the 4x100 freestyle relay and the place erupted and because it's kind of enclosed, it was, I mean, electric. And so it's kind of cool to see like the families congregate there and have everyone just scream their heads off, you know, together. So.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 1:00:17Rich Roll?

  But tho- those nation houses are different from the kind of Bonnaroo carnival environment that's way up the canals. Like, have you seen that?

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like a.

• 1:00:28Rich Roll?

  And there's like fairgrounds where each, each country has its own kind of like little area.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Separate from, it's separate from that, but you can go up there and there's like activities and all kinds of stuff. I haven't been yet. There's like a huge Olympic fairgrounds.

• 1:00:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and they have like merry-go-rounds.

• 1:00:42Katie Hoff?

  I was about to say, right?

• 1:00:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's like all kinds of stuff.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  It's like Olympic Disneyland.

• 1:00:46Rich Roll?

  Like if you go run, like next time you go running.

• 1:00:48Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:49Rich Roll?

  Just take the canal as far as you can north, like you'll get, you'll, you take it north and you'll go through the kind of area where there's a bunch of cafes and then there's a big intersection and then you cross it and you keep going. And that's where they built in this like pool into the canal that I think it's closed right now, but normally is open to people. And then, and then it keeps going and it opens up into this huge park. And inside there, there are all these like activities and things happening in there.

• 1:01:14Katie Hoff?

  I'll have to check that out. My next outing. That seems like more of a marathon situation.

• 1:01:18Rich Roll?

  It's not that far, it's not that far away, but to the point of like helping the audience understand, like every time there's an Olympics in a city, all these brands have houses and like hospitality suites and they're kind of open to the public or semi-open to the public. And then each country has its own house. So there's all these like social act, there's a whole social world that's going on at the same time as the games and it's stratified, right? Like there's the super fancy parties at the Louvre that, you know, A-list celebrities go to. But then there's all these other kind of activations going around with all these brands that have athletes who are competing.

• 1:01:57Rich Roll?

  And so even if you don't go to any of the events, there's still like all this stuff to do and a lot of fun to be had.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's a good vibe here, at least from my experience so far.

• 1:02:08Rich Roll?

  Are you gonna play some music while you're here?

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  I've got the guitar here, but nah.

• 1:02:12Rich Roll?

  People must have asked you.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I haven't really wanted to, I don't know.

• 1:02:18Rich Roll?

  Just keep that aside for now.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:20Rich Roll?

  You should just have no obligations. Like I'm surprised you even said yes to this. Like you should just be having a good time.

• 1:02:26Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, seriously.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  I'm doing both. Don't worry. Yeah.

• 1:02:29Rich Roll?

  Well, you did, I did text you and you, you like, you went dark on me for like 24 hours and I was like, I should just leave this guy alone. He just wants to have fun, you know?

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  I was definitely out. I don't remember what night it was, but.

• 1:02:42Katie Hoff?

  Off the grid for a second.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Been out a couple nights. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, enjoying the relief of not having the early mornings anymore. Yeah.

• 1:02:50Rich Roll?

  Cool. Well, I think we we need to let you go because you got somewhere else you gotta be and.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  It's good to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it was so much fun. Nice to talk to you guys.

• 1:02:59Katie Hoff?

  Nice to talk to you too.

• 1:02:59Rich Roll?

  And and just, you know, normally like I do intros like that I record later before these so I can kind of contextualize everything and these are just kind of going up, you know, rough as they are. For people that don't know and haven't listened to the podcast that that Cody and I did a while back, what was that, like a year and a half ago?

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  I still got a lot of great, uh, yeah, it's probably about a year ago, four months ago. Still got a lot of great feedback from that.

• 1:03:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, your story is incredible. I think the way that you navigated this chapter of your life, uh, you know, showed a lot of maturity and integrity and I just have mad respect for how you've conducted yourself and the way that you showed up for something that you cared about and the way that you shared the story of the whole thing like very transparently and it's great to see you here and in like a really good headspace. And like I said at the outset, I'm excited for this next chapter for for people that are like, who is this Cody guy? And like, what are we talking about? Like, go back and listen or watch that, uh, that that podcast that we did.

• 1:03:59Rich Roll?

  Because I just, I think you're a really, you know, a really super interesting guy. And so it was a privilege to have you here today.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Privilege to be here. Thanks for having me.

• 1:04:06Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, I mean, I'm inspired. Like, I just think to be able to see someone make that transition in the way that you are and genuinely, like, you can tell when an athlete is just like saying words to kind of get through it before they deal with their stuff. It's inspiring to me, having gone through transition to see the way that you speak about it. So it's cool.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:04:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hope I can inspire like other athletes to not be sort of afraid to.

• 1:04:28Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  You know, come in and out of their sport and, you know, be okay with sort of.

• 1:04:33Rich Roll?

  For you to take that long of a break and not even like you didn't even get going in your real swimming career, right? Like it was cut short before it really even began.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  I suppose so.

• 1:04:43Rich Roll?

  And then to step in like so many years later and do what you did.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:47Rich Roll?

  Opens up the possibility for other athletes thinking differently about their approach to sport.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, particularly for, at least I can't speak for like longer distance events, but particularly for the 100 meters, like,

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  I think there's that.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Sort of common conception that you need to have done 10K a day from the age of 14 to, you know, have any chance to, you know, compete at a high level. And I think it's, it's being proven more and more that that's not necessarily the case. And that, you know, may not necessarily be too late to come in, as long as you, you then commit to the, the work required. Obviously, it's like, you know, I'm not saying anyone can just come and go in and just swim, you know, but I think there's, there's a sort of age old conception around,

• 1:05:42Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  you know, the amount of years you had, you have to, have to have sort of been putting in K's, you know?

• 1:05:49Katie Hoff?

  It's the culture of swimming, I think.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the way it's always been done, right?

• 1:05:53Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  You know, it's gate kept in that way, but it's not necessarily the truth. So.

• 1:06:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So you're like an explorer.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I suppose so. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:04Rich Roll?

  It'll be interesting to see other athletes, you know, do their version of their experience and what that might look like.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  I'm already seeing, like, at least in Australia, and people have come up to me saying, you inspired me to do this and that. And I think that's really cool, you know, if I can inspire someone else to have an experience like I had, I've, I gained so much from my experience in the sport again, that I hope others can like do something, do the same thing, you know?

• 1:06:28Rich Roll?

  I'm just imagining like some 30 year old dude rolling up on you and being like, you know, I went 55 in the 100 fly when I was 16.

• 1:06:35Katie Hoff?

  What do you think?

• 1:06:37Katie Hoff?

  You're like, uh.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  That's not what I meant.

• 1:06:42Katie Hoff?

  I will say though, I

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Masters, maybe?

• 1:06:45Katie Hoff?

  I am trying to make, I've not, I've only said this like in a small forum, so I'll say no.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Kay's making a comeback?

• 1:06:51Katie Hoff?

  No, like not for like, not to the, make the Olympic team, but I just was so inspired at Lucas Oil by how Greivers did it. So I want to make my Olympic trials cut in the 100 breaststroke, so I can

• 1:07:02Rich Roll?

  Just to do it?

• 1:07:02Katie Hoff?

  Just to do it and like swim again and just see how it feels. But like, I'm full on committing to doing that a year out. So I think like just seeing

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  For, for LA.

• 1:07:12Katie Hoff?

  For LA, yeah. And like deck access, you know?

• 1:07:15Rich Roll?

  Who's the, who was the, the breast stroker who made the final?

• 1:07:18Katie Hoff?

  Gabrielle Rose did it too. Yeah, and breaststroke. Forty six, I'm gonna be thirty nine, so I'm gonna be spring chicken.

• 1:07:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 1:07:24Katie Hoff?

  So.

• 1:07:25Rich Roll?

  Do you know that there is a athlete here in the Olympics competing in table tennis who is sixty one?

• 1:07:30Katie Hoff?

  Stop.

• 1:07:31Rich Roll?

  Wow. Yeah, there was a, what, like a Wall Street Journal article about her the other day, yeah.

• 1:07:36Katie Hoff?

  I don't think that could happen in swimming.

• 1:07:38Rich Roll?

  Cody, Cody's mind's about to explode. He's like, oh, I thought I was done.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Table tennis?

• 1:07:43Katie Hoff?

  Maybe.

• 1:07:44Rich Roll?

  She was like, she was like competing in world championships in like the seventies or something like that.

• 1:07:48Katie Hoff?

  Oh, my gosh. Yeah. No.

• 1:07:52Rich Roll?

  I think it's like.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  Thirty five years to get good.

• 1:07:53Rich Roll?

  For six Olympics or something like that. I don't know.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  Wow, that's impressive.

• 1:07:56Katie Hoff?

  That's cool.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man. Rewrite rewriting the rules, buddy.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks.

• 1:08:01Rich Roll?

  Meanwhile, go out there, make some music. You got your kid, you have, you came out with this kid's book, too.

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I just dropped a track like last week for the, um.

• 1:08:09Katie Hoff?

  I saw that. I saw that. It's beautiful, by the way.

• 1:08:12Rich Roll?

  I didn't see that.

• 1:08:13Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  It's called Fly. Like, I pretty much right after trials, like jumped in and I'd already written the song, but I jumped in and like produced it and finished it up and like, dropped it as a little like theme song for the Australian Dolphins and, um, it was sort of just a timely. It was, it's also a reflection on what I'd been through. So I put that out as just like a little, sort of a diary entry on what I'd just been through and the mindset that it required and all that stuff. And hopefully to sort of give the Aussies a little boost. Yeah.

• 1:08:40Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 1:08:41Katie Hoff?

  It's cool. They put it to like, you know, all the swims and kind of that. So it's like over or related with that. Yeah, it's, I got chills. It's great. It's really great.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:08:49Rich Roll?

  And then Katie, you got the Unfiltered Waters podcast.

• 1:08:52Katie Hoff?

  Yes.

• 1:08:53Rich Roll?

  Newly minted.

• 1:08:54Katie Hoff?

  Newly minted. I was talking to him. I'm like, if, if you could give one piece of advice, you're twelve years in and you're year one, what would you do? So I'm very newly minted. Have the podcast with Missy Franklin and it's been so fun. Like so many of the athletes that are competing here are actually, have been on the podcast. So my, my goal is just to, you know, that person beneath the athlete type of thing. So that's been really, really rewarding and fun.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Everyone tell their stories.

• 1:09:20Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, and just have more of a forum like this than how do you feel about that swim type, type vibe. So it's been very rewarding.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  Cause everyone is, is filtered usually in those post-race interviews.

• 1:09:30Katie Hoff?

  Exactly.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  So it's nice to.

• 1:09:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Those are tough. Get the unfiltered.

• 1:09:34Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, unfiltered version.

• 1:09:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's just like the same thing.

• 1:09:38Katie Hoff?

  The same, yeah, like, oh, I feel good. Yeah, like that's, and I do think-

• 1:09:41Rich Roll?

  I want to thank my family.

• 1:09:42Katie Hoff?

  You're like, yeah, I had a great time. It's an honor. I'm like, no, I want like the five layers below that.

• 1:09:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:49Katie Hoff?

  So, yeah, it's been really fun. Hopefully, keep things rolling.

• 1:09:52Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah. All right, well, I think this postcard has been written and is ready for a stamp to be sent across the world. So, I'm going to let you guys go. Enjoy Paris. Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. Have a great time.

• 1:10:04Katie Hoff?

  Thank you so much. Great to meet you, too.

• 1:10:06Rich Roll?

  And, yeah, me go. See you at the pool tonight. We'll see. Yeah. You gonna be out there? I am. All right. Might see you.