My Husband Never Has Time for Me or the Kids

On today’s episode, we hear about: A wife struggling to parent while her husband works A woman whose in-laws weaponize religion A mom wondering when to tell her son the truth about Santa Next Steps: ❤️ Getaway with your spouse today! 🔥 Reconnect every day. Download the Together app. 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Head to Beam and use code DELONY for an exclusive discount—because better sleep, energy and focus start tonight. Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Keep your home safe and under control. Go to Cove Smart and use code DELONY for up to 80% off your first order. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Go to Dutch Pet and use code DELONY to get $50 off a year of vet care. Go love your pets! Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Working knives for working people—go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne.  Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  My husband has a pretty busy job and so just isn't really able to help. We don't have a whole lot of family support, so I'm kind of stuck doing most of it by myself.

• 0:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, the more you're talking, the more I'm getting the sense that your marriage is in pretty significant peril. So I guess the scary terrifying question that I often ask folks is...

• 0:28Dr. John Delony?

  What up? What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. It's you and me and a couple of million people talking about what's going on in your life, your marriage, your mental and emotional health, your kids, whatever you've got going on. That's what this show is, sitting with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move. Real people going through real challenges. If you want to be on the show, go to john deloney/ask. I'm sorry, john deloney.com/ask. And we'd love to have you on. All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now, we have February and October weekends on sale for the Money in Marriage Getaway.

• 1:12Dr. John Delony?

  It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 a couple. Get yours at ramsesolutions.com/getaway.

• 1:23Dr. John Delony?

  Let's go to Austin, Texas and talk to the great and wonderful Elizabeth. Hey Elizabeth, what's up?

• 1:28Speaker 00

  Hi, Dr. John, how are you?

• 1:31Dr. John Delony?

  I'm good, and you?

• 1:32Speaker 00

  I'm doing well, thank you.

• 1:34Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 1:35Speaker 00

  So I was calling because I guess my question is, how to handle my husband's limited help as a mom to two under two?

• 1:46Dr. John Delony?

  Whoa geez, two under two.

• 1:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just recently had another baby and the baby is about four weeks old now. My first is about 17 months old, so very busy. My husband has a pretty busy job and so just isn't really able to help. We don't have a whole lot of family support, so I'm kind of stuck doing most of it by myself.

• 2:11Dr. John Delony?

  I think the key there is that last word you used.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:20Dr. John Delony?

  Is motherhood was never designed to be by yourself.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:28Dr. John Delony?

  Even even the fantasy of the stay at home mom, this idea that one person can navigate all things at all times alone and by themselves and lack of sleep and feeding and food and diapers and stuff and lions and tigers and bears. Oh my, it's a it's a it's a madhouse fantasy. It's not real.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 2:47Dr. John Delony?

  I think it's driven a centuries worth of Western world women.

• 2:55Dr. John Delony?

  Into wondering what's wrong with them into guilt into shame into all these different things that were has never been true in all of human history, which is you go home, close the door. It's you and this one kid, these two kids, these three kids, and you got to do it all by yourself.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:13Dr. John Delony?

  So tell me about your husband's job that he can't come home and help even when he's tired.

• 3:19Speaker 00

  Um, so he he's pretty busy. Um, he is actually a lawyer, um, a pretty new lawyer works in big law. Um.

• 3:29Dr. John Delony?

  Is he on the partner track?

• 3:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:32Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  He is.

• 3:33Dr. John Delony?

  So you've lost him for two years, right?

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:35Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's that's kind of what it feels like. Um, and that expectation was set going into this. Um, I knew that going into this.

• 3:44Dr. John Delony?

  Cool.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Um, I guess I didn't realize how hard it was going to be as a new mom without any family support. Um, we are not actually originally from the Austin area. So, um, yeah, it's kind of learning and trying to build a community here, um, which is hard to do as a new mom with two little ones and a husband that works, you know, a lot. He works a lot.

• 4:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, totally.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  And so, you know, I knew going into it, it wasn't like that expectation wasn't set. He he very much forewarned me of that. Um, but I didn't realize the amount of time that it would require of him, um, to do that. And so I realized that our future, there is a light at the end of that. Tunnel, um, but it's just been really hard. Like there are nights where he just doesn't come home. Um, because he's working so late and so, I mean, there will be 24, 48 hours where I just don't even see him. And I'm doing it literally all by myself.

• 4:44Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So the, the beauty about your situation is.

• 4:50Dr. John Delony?

  A, y'all talked about it. Now there's, there's the experienced reality, but it's, it's not like a shock. I guess the shock is, oh, this is what this really feels like. Or when you, we may have had different pictures, like when he said, I'm gonna be really busy. And you're like, okay, I know really busy. And then you're like, oh, you mean you're gonna be working for 48 straight hours, right? Like, so there is some adjustments into the reality. But that also means y'all have, if he's working big law in the 512 area code, that means you'll have some resources to get some support.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 5:20Dr. John Delony?

  And you're, you're gonna have to be able to deal with that innate. I, I, I don't want to throw this on you. What I hear often is if I have to hire help. That somehow means that I wasn't enough.

• 5:37Dr. John Delony?

  Or if I have to figure out how to get three or four or five or six women to come over on Tuesday mornings and Thursday mornings. And they bring their kids and we just talk or we just stare off into space, whatever. If I have to work that hard to have friends, I've never had to do that in college. I never did it in grad school. I never had to do that in undergrad, like in high school. But now I have to work that hard, then it must be something wrong with me.

• 6:02Dr. John Delony?

  And it's you taking those two lies head on. And saying, what do I actually want? And what do I actually need in terms of support and care here?

• 6:15Dr. John Delony?

  So tell me, what's the story beneath the story that's going on inside your heart and mind? When it comes to you acknowledging, I'm real, real lonely here.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think, um, I think the part that's the hardest part for me is that like the extra stuff that comes with it. Um, you know, I realize that you have to kind of work and play with the partners and you know, there's, there's things that come with that, like these events and such. And I think I find myself at home essentially drowning with two kids and I see my husband like not doing that. I know his job is very taxing, but he's also going to these nice dinners that are going on and these events and you

• 7:05Speaker 00

  know, it, it almost feels like I'm jealous in a sense that I am, you know, sitting here with these two kids by myself, just trying to stay afloat. And it's like, he's not there, he's not a part of it, he's not seeing it. And he's living this whole other life that doesn't even feel like he's really married and is like a father most of the time.

• 7:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So I want you to have that conversation.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:35Dr. John Delony?

  Cause that's the thing beneath the thing.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:37Dr. John Delony?

  By the way, you're right to feel jealous. That doesn't make you a bad person. If you feel jealous that five nights a week, he's at a big five star restaurant, whining and dining clients, or the nights he's not whining and dining clients, he's having a celebration dinner because they won the case or they got the, got the new, like whatever. You're right to feel jealous when you're covered up and throw up and you just miss the guy that you married.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:05Dr. John Delony?

  And he comes home for conjugal visits and then goes back out into the world and where he's dressing up in suits and going to fancy places. Like you're, you'd kind of be nuts if you weren't jealous of that.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:15Dr. John Delony?

  Because also in the past, in law school, you were the, you were the date to the barrister's ball, right?

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 8:22Dr. John Delony?

  Like you, those were all with you.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:25Dr. John Delony?

  And so you're right to feel jealous. The thing I'll challenge you on is already starting out of the gate, keeping secrets.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 8:36Dr. John Delony?

  And already saying, okay, we had this plan and this plan is killing me.

• 8:43Dr. John Delony?

  And I want to be honest about, is this the right plan moving forward?

• 8:49Dr. John Delony?

  And so it's being able to have that open dialogue. And you might find if you broach that conversation that he exhales and says, "I really thought I wanted to do big law, but I miss my wife. I'm not being a dad."

• 9:03Dr. John Delony?

  Or he might find that the firm could care less if he goes to all five dinners, five nights a week. He thinks he has to to make partner, but he could sit down and have coffee with a few of the partners and be like, "No, dude, nobody cares about those stupid things."

• 9:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:19Dr. John Delony?

  Go home and be with your family.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is that he feels like he has to go to those. Like, he has a hard time saying no. But I think the thing that hurts my feelings the most is that he says no to coming home to help us, like, at all, but he can't say no to them. And I think that's where the issue is lying, especially with the newborn. Like, I'm very fresh postpartum and, you know, like, I could use for sure some help, especially with our toddler. And it's like, I'm being told, "No, I can't do that." And, you know, it's even simple things that's making it really difficult.

• 10:01Dr. John Delony?

  You'll need to have that hard conversation.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:05Dr. John Delony?

  Sooner rather than later.

• 10:10Dr. John Delony?

  Because at the end of the day, you phrased it beautifully.

• 10:15Dr. John Delony?

  I'm telling you I need you. They're telling you they want you.

• 10:21Dr. John Delony?

  And you're choosing them.

• 10:25Dr. John Delony?

  And he might rightfully say, "Hey, we knew this was coming. We agreed upon this." And you're saying, "You're right, we did." And I feel like things might have changed.

• 10:38Dr. John Delony?

  Have you said the words, "I want you home," other than "I need you home"?

• 10:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I have. We've actually had quite a few conversations about it. Um, and it, like, there's small changes, but then it just, like, kind of falls back into the same song and dance. And, you know, I'm, I'm very understanding when it comes to him actually working and understanding of these events and things that he has to go to, but it's, it's like there's almost a fork in the road of whenever it's time to kind of come home, or it's staying out. And it, it seems like, like, our life at home is so chaotic that it's just easy, easier for him to not come home. And so he just chooses to not.

• 11:26Dr. John Delony?

  And that's where I would look him in the eye and say, "You're, you're not fulfilling your chief responsibility."

• 11:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, I mean, he's admitted that, that he's been doing that, but he also isn't changing it. Like, he's acknowledging that it's not right and that it's wrong, but it's also still happening constantly.

• 11:51Dr. John Delony?

  Does he have some men in his life that he trusts and he listens to?

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Um, no, unfortunately. He, he kind of doesn't really have the best relationship with his family. And, um, a lot of the people that he works with, I probably wouldn't say are the best of influences.

• 12:13Dr. John Delony?

  So I guess the scary, terrifying question that I often ask folks is, "What are you gonna do now?"

• 12:21Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 12:23Dr. John Delony?

  Because it's a hard, you, you use, again, your, your choice of language is really instructive. It's really excellent. You're at a fork in the road. You said, "Hey, I need you here." And I, I'm actually supporting how hard you're working in the crazy hours of a first couple of years in big law. I'm really supporting of that. But then there's the, "Hey, we're all going for drinks." And that's when you could come home and be a present husband and dad, and you choose no. And he said, "You're right. I do choose the other."

• 12:55Dr. John Delony?

  Right, it's not like you've brought something to his attention, he doesn't know.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  Right, yeah, we've had a lot of, a lot of conversations about it, it definitely hasn't,

• 13:07Speaker 00

  hasn't not been talked about.

• 13:08Dr. John Delony?

  Would he go see somebody with you?

• 13:12Speaker 00

  I don't know, um, we've, we've talked about it before, um, but I, I mean, I, I see a therapist that I've seen for a while, um, and I've asked him to, and he's, seems to be kind of indifferent about it, and it seems like it just kind of gets brushed off.

• 13:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, the more you're talking, the more I'm getting the sense that your marriage is in pretty significant peril.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:42Dr. John Delony?

  Am I right, or am I?

• 13:43Speaker 00

  It feels like it.

• 13:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, it feels like it, yeah.

• 13:46Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Have you sat down and asked him if he still wants to be married to you?

• 13:52Speaker 00

  I did, um, we did, we had a very, a very long talk about it, um, and he, he says yes, but it feels like his, like, his words are great, um, but it's just like the actions that aren't following through with those words that is what's making it really hard.

• 14:13Dr. John Delony?

  Well, the next layer, behavior's a language, right? And by the way, you're married to a wordsmith.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  I know.

• 14:20Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so, um, so the next layer is, what are the actions that are gonna, that are gonna back up your statements? And so I think the next conversation is, and it, and it can be leading somewhere,

• 14:38Dr. John Delony?

  but the next conversation is, hey, you said you wanted to be married to me, I've spent some time thinking, here is a roadmap of what love looks like, what our marriage looks like in the next six months, with two kids, two and under, with a postpartum wife,

• 14:56Dr. John Delony?

  with an exhausting, chaotic household, here's what this looked like, are you in, or are you out?

• 15:05Dr. John Delony?

  And it's almost like, um, I've been on the other side of some attorneys when I start answering a question and they'll say like, no, no, no, stop. It's not what I asked you. Did you send this text? And you're like, yes, I did. Right? And so it's, it's getting to that level of I'm writing these things down. Will you be a part of our married household like this?

• 15:33Dr. John Delony?

  But the phrase behavior is the language. You said all the right words. That's cool.

• 15:38Dr. John Delony?

  I'm putting, I'm basically, I'm putting you on notice to use their language. I'm putting you on notice. Here's what being married in this particular season looks like. And it's commendable that you're looking, that you are, uh, understanding it's not like you need to be home at five o'clock. That's unreasonable for that job, right? You know that. Right. Um, but you don't have to go out for drinks every night.

• 16:03Dr. John Delony?

  And it's getting, it's finding those, and sometimes you do, I hate to say that sometimes you do, like sometimes there's a client, you gotta go, dude, this just came up. I gotta go. That's part of it. Right? I was on call for, for 20 years. And so my wife lived with that. It wasn't fun. It wasn't great, but it's, yeah, you've, I mean, I hate to say this. I don't know success in your marriage outside of a marriage counselor for both of you together. Because there's, there's gotta be some harder conversations. And I don't know, without talking to him, I don't know if he just doesn't like it. If he feels like home is a failure factory and he can be more successful there. If he's uncomfortable, he just doesn't have to, like, I don't know what's in his heart and mind and you don't either. Um, but you've had all the preliminary conversations that I would

• 16:47Dr. John Delony?

  recommend somebody have, which tells me, yeah, your marriage is at a precipice and you're feeling that. And I think the important thing is, is to turn the lights on and stop the, stop the music. And here is what I'm asking of you. I need you home four nights a week. I need you home five nights a week. When you come home, I need help with the following things. I need you just to hold me on the couch for 45 minutes. That's it. Like, what do those things look like? And having the deeper questions, is big law right for our family?

• 17:22Dr. John Delony?

  And anybody who gets married has to know what's right for me goes to second place. When you say till death do us part, and then you start bringing kids into it. You become second place, third place, like, but this is what I want. Okay, but this is what we, this is the set of responsibilities you took on when you married me. This is a set of responsibilities you took on when we created humans together. And it might look different than we had it mapped out.

• 17:50Dr. John Delony?

  But I think you're at a place where hard, hard conversations or deep conversations aren't going to be as much. There's not going to be a lot of utility there. It is, here's a set of actions. Are you in or you're out? Let's have that conversation. I wish you the absolute best. This is a tough, tough situation and it's a tough situation for him too. I know that also. Thanks for the call, sister. I don't feel like I was very much help to you, other than to clear it up and say, you're not crazy. I don't think he's crazy, but y'all have some really hard reckoning. No more hard conversations, but some hard reckoning about our actions going to be a part of what happens next. Thanks for the call, sister. When we come back, a woman asks how to cope with her in-laws weaponizing religion just to create conflict.

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• 21:19Speaker 00

  Hey Dr. John, how's it going?

• 21:21Dr. John Delony?

  Great, how are you?

• 21:23Speaker 00

  Not too bad, not too bad.

• 21:24Dr. John Delony?

  Alright, so what's up?

• 21:26Speaker 02

  Um, so I have been married for, oh gosh, eight years, um, and, and together with my husband for a little longer than that. Um, and when we first got together, I actually joined him at church, kinda, I know, admittedly as a, as a pleasing way to kinda join my way into the family. Um, and

• 21:48Dr. John Delony?

  (laughing)

• 21:49Speaker 02

  You know, you're young, you know, you gotta get there.

• 21:52Dr. John Delony?

  Wow. That was, that was well said, Jeremy.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Not that I don't believe, not that I don't believe, but you know, their church specifically and that, and that specific, um, you know, synod of sorts, um, was very evangelical. And, uh, I found out through experience, um, that that, um, is the absolute pillar of the family, at least in my in-laws' eyes. Um, my husband grew up that way. Um, his dad was the principal of the school tied to the church. So he grew up completely educated within the church. Um, and, you know, came out on the other side saying, well, you know, I believe, but not for me. Um, and, uh, and so a lot of this has caused a lot of, uh,

• 22:39Speaker 02

  a, a lot of schisms in the family and they kinda come back together, sort of, and kind of repair and move on. But the move on is, um, you know, tied together with a lot of grudges. And so the latest schism has lasted about three years. Um, and it's created a lot of favoritism in the family and it's very evident to now, you know, my nieces and nephews, who are all kind of getting aware of what grandma and grandpa like them more than us.

• 23:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  So how do I, you know, stand here in the middle? We don't have any children, um, but you know, being surrounded by the whole family where we're on one side and, and they are on another. How do I, you know, not fix it, but

• 23:26Dr. John Delony?

  Leave, leave the field. Leave the field.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 23:31Dr. John Delony?

  No, I'm, I'm saying leave the field.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 23:34Dr. John Delony?

  Listen, like, I'll say this as directly as I can. His parents have made it very clear they don't want you all around.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:43Dr. John Delony?

  They don't want y'all in their life unless you worship as they want you to worship, where they want you to worship, and how they want you to worship.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:52Dr. John Delony?

  And unless you want to play, you want to wear their suit that comes out of their closet, they don't want to be in a relationship with you. Period.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:03Dr. John Delony?

  And there's a deep grief that comes with that sort of cutting you off.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:10Dr. John Delony?

  And most of the time, the people pleaser in us, the solver in us, and if, and if your husband grew up in that world, he's been people pleasing his whole freaking life.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:20Dr. John Delony?

  It's, there's a sense of responsibility to make sure the adults in our life are okay.

• 24:28Dr. John Delony?

  I remember one of the greatest, like, only in retrospect, one of the greatest gifts my dad gave me is when he quit being a policeman and took over a job as a minister at the, at our big church. He said, "I'm gonna be your minister now, and I'm your dad, and so you're not gonna be able to hear me. You need to find some men that you trust." And of course, he can, he helped point me in the direction, in that, in that direction. And I remember him saying this, "I don't care where you go to church. I just want you to go somewhere."

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:06Dr. John Delony?

  And that was, I, at the time, I, I blew it off because I was, I don't know, 10 or 12 or whatever, and I was like, "Okay," like, you know, but in retrospect, that may have cost him his job, that he was a minister somewhere and his kid went somewhere else. But it was a bigger deal to him that I find a place where I could plug into, and I found a group of people just to do life with, than it was him being right. You get what I'm saying?

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 25:33Dr. John Delony?

  Your husband doesn't have that. He has the opposite. "You will do as I say," and the weapon here, the, the, is my relationship with you.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:44Dr. John Delony?

  Good God almighty.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:45Dr. John Delony?

  That breaks my heart, dude.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and funny enough, um, you know, uh, joining his family, um, their family to me was the stable ones. I came from a really chaotic family. Um, you know, drugs and alcohol abuse and, and, you know, emotional neglect and, and all of that kind of stuff. And so seeing his family, you know, in my eyes, looked on the outside, very stable.

• 26:09Dr. John Delony?

  And you went and married your unfinished business.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Indeed. I'm, I'm no, you know, I'm no worse off for it. I, I love the guy, but.

• 26:17Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, it's not that, but, but.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  The way that we did it.

• 26:19Dr. John Delony?

  Your body recognized, oh, emotional manipulation. Oh, control and power. Oh, addiction. It just was, came in a different bottle.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm home.

• 26:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I'm home, right? And the body goes, ah, here we are. And your mind's like, what? Yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's tough too, because I, I'm the only one in the family, at least his family, um, actually, and mine as well, um, who's been through therapy and actually got help for, you know, how the feeling and.

• 26:51Dr. John Delony?

  Jennifer, why would you go to therapy? You just need to pray harder. Duh.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  I can't tell you how many times I've heard that.

• 27:01Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I know. Listen, uh, here, here's the, the brass tacks truth. He has to make the call.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:09Dr. John Delony?

  That, that call's going to be informed by a wife who loves him deeply and will be his ride or die, come hell or high water. But he's gonna have to make that call. Otherwise, if you sever the relationship with his family, there's gonna be a wedge between the two of you, however small or thin or invisible it feels, it will be there forever.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:29Dr. John Delony?

  And the second thing is, is you'll have to exhale and grieve the fact

• 27:36Dr. John Delony?

  that his parents would rather.

• 27:41Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all continue to be elementary school kids and do exactly what they say whenever they say it, then they would prefer to be in relationship with you.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:53Dr. John Delony?

  And that's not how parents should be, but that's what you got.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's, it's heavy just, you know, with, with that because I crave the unity. And so I put it on my, my shoulders for a long time, especially because we were in the middle.

• 28:13Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  In here in both sides, um, not necessarily just his parents, but I mean, his, his sister as well.

• 28:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  He has a couple of sisters and, and one sister is in their boat still, um, and is the favorite because, you know, she's kind of the, she's the oldest and she's, you know, done everything right, you know, according to their book. Um, and, uh, and you know, here we are, um, what they would probably refer to as joining the dark side with the other sister who, you know, they won't even tell they're coming into town.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  From out of state, so it's, um, yeah, it's, it breaks my heart to watch too, just for my niece and nephew to, to, you know.

• 28:53Dr. John Delony?

  It's the same, it's the same question you've been haunted by since you were a little girl.

• 28:58Dr. John Delony?

  Why?

• 29:00Dr. John Delony?

  Dad, why, why would you choose to drink over me?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:07Dr. John Delony?

  And you married into, why would you choose? Why would you choose to be manipulative and, um,

• 29:18Dr. John Delony?

  discontinue relationship unless I sing and dance exactly as you want me to sing and dance?

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:24Dr. John Delony?

  It's the same exact question, it's just got a different suit on it.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:29Dr. John Delony?

  And so the heartbreaking work is finding yourself in the exact same

• 29:35Dr. John Delony?

  toxic, destructive mass. And then asking yourself that scary question, okay, who are we gonna be now?

• 29:45Dr. John Delony?

  What are we gonna do now?

• 29:48Dr. John Delony?

  We're gonna have a different kind of Thanksgiving, a different kind of Christmas this year, and we're inviting younger sister.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:55Dr. John Delony?

  And that's great.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:57Dr. John Delony?

  And we're gonna be sad that it's not what we wanted it to be, which is one big happy family, because half of our family has chosen to not be in relationship with us.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:10Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, if they called, I would say, hey, they're choosing, if that's the boundary you're drawing, either they go to this church and worship at our building, or they don't get to come, I would say, okay, you made your bet.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:28Dr. John Delony?

  Like, you put the cards on the table and they called, right?

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:32Dr. John Delony?

  Or you made your bet and they called. It's like, it...

• 30:36Dr. John Delony?

  It just stinks. It's such a dumb, unnecessary, heartbreaking fracture of a relationship.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 30:44Dr. John Delony?

  And yet, here we are.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:50Dr. John Delony?

  And there's something about saying out loud, "Your dad doesn't want to be in a relationship with you."

• 30:56Dr. John Delony?

  "My father-in-law doesn't like me."

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:03Dr. John Delony?

  It's the worst.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 31:09Dr. John Delony?

  And also, I think for you, it's gotta feel worse. Tell me if I'm wrong, but when you were playing along,

• 31:18Dr. John Delony?

  man, those hugs felt good, didn't they?

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Actually, they don't hug.

• 31:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Because hug leads to sex, and sex leads to dancing, right?

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Actually, kinda, yeah.

• 31:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, dude. I mean, there's just some deep grief here, and after the grief is asking yourself, okay, brass tacks, what does church look like for us? Brass tacks, what does the holiday season look like for us? Because we can't, we can't have nothing. We gotta have community. We gotta have people. So if our family is asking or telling us we don't want to be in a relationship with you, okay. We gotta be in a relationship with somebody. So is there an island of misfit toys? That we can have a great Thanksgiving with? Or like my family and my wife's family, they just live 17 hours away. And so our Easter is the best. You know who comes?

• 32:16Dr. John Delony?

  The craziest group of people you can possibly imagine. People asleep on the couch, people like tattoo artists, she comes, like musicians come, bankers come, higher education people. It is the most random group of people and I love it. Love it. Single people come, kids ever. But we had to do that. Because we backed up and moved away from everybody.

• 32:42Dr. John Delony?

  And so it's creating the reality. Here's this is reality. I gotta deal with it. I hate this for you, Jennifer. I hate it for everybody going through this, this holiday, this holiday season. Whether it's around religion, whether it's around anything, which is you sing or dance? Or as your parent, I'm taking my relationship and I'm using it as a weapon to cut you off. I hate that, man. I hate that. I hate that. I hate that.

• 33:13Dr. John Delony?

  I'll tell you, aging parents with young adult kids.

• 33:21Dr. John Delony?

  I've never met somebody in the last stages of their life, ever. Not one time. Have I ever met somebody in the last stages of life say, I'm really glad I cut my kid off over issue X, Y, or Z. Who they voted for? Who they were dating? What church they went to? Like, I've never heard somebody heading into the last years or weeks or months of their life say, I'm so glad I cut them off, ever. I have heard repeatedly,

• 33:53Dr. John Delony?

  man, if I could have five more minutes.

• 33:59Dr. John Delony?

  Aging parents, it's your move.

• 34:03Dr. John Delony?

  When we come back, a woman asks, "How do we talk about Santa with our kids?"

• 34:11Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. The holidays are a time of traditions, both good ones and not so good ones. The holidays can be busy, stressful, and for many of us, lonely. And that's why it's a great time to reflect on what the good traditions are during our holiday season and the traditions that aren't so great. And if you need to dig into some of those not so great traditions, therapy can give you space to reflect on the old traditions and create new ones. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. They've served over 5 million people globally with an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. BetterHelp is totally online, so it's easy to fit into your busy holiday schedule.

• 34:56Dr. John Delony?

  To get started, just answer a few simple questions and they'll connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. If it's not the right fit, you can change therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, during the chaos, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash deloney.

• 35:21Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go to Richmond, Indiana. Talk to Bethany. What's up, Bethany?

• 35:28Speaker 00

  Hi. Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited.

• 35:30Dr. John Delony?

  I'm excited to talk to you. Hey, you just heard how terrible I am at this job. We had to edit this stuff in. I don't know why my mouth isn't working today. I can't make full words and sentences. So we'll try to get through this one the best I can.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  It's okay. You're not a Hoosier. It's okay. You're not a Hoosier.

• 35:45Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, good, exactly. All right, what's up?

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Okay, so I was wondering, what age do?

• 35:53Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on, before you ask that, before you ask that. I've gotta, I gotta give a disclaimer here, okay?

• 35:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 36:00Dr. John Delony?

  Kelly let me know, gave me a heads up on this call because I didn't make a disclaimer in the past when I've had these conversations. And

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 36:09Dr. John Delony?

  I have people who are listening to the show and their kids are in the room. So, parents.

• 36:14Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 36:15Dr. John Delony?

  We're talking about Santa. If you've got kids in the room, spoiler alert, either get your kids out of the room, or you can just let me do it for you, and then you gotta clean up the mess that I'm not to make. All right, Bethany, go for it.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  Okay, so I have 11-year-old son and a 21-year-old son. The 11-year-old was a surprise blessing that we didn't wasn't expecting.

• 36:38Dr. John Delony?

  Surprise!

• 36:41Speaker 03

  Yes, it was a very big surprise. But, anyway, the 11-year-old still 100% believes. The 21-year-old is telling me that I need to tell him that he went through this as a kid, and he thinks it's horrible and all these things. And I'm thinking to myself, why not let the kid be a kid?

• 37:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  So, that was my question.

• 37:05Dr. John Delony?

  Fifth grader?

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Apparently, I've traumatized my oldest.

• 37:08Dr. John Delony?

  Fifth grader?

• 37:10Speaker 03

  He is in fifth grade, yes.

• 37:11Dr. John Delony?

  Why does your oldest say he was traumatized? Did he find out the hard way on the playground?

• 37:19Speaker 03

  He found out when the Tooth Fairy was taking care of her aging, ill parents, and forgot to leave Tooth Fairy money.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  So.

• 37:30Dr. John Delony?

  Stupid Tooth Fairy.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  I know that Tooth Fairy, she got me every time.

• 37:35Dr. John Delony?

  Every time. So.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  I have went to great lengths to keep this secret. Like, I took a picture of him with the elf, and you know, I've done, and then I erased it. I have tried so hard to keep this.

• 37:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so let me ask you. What does this story get you?

• 37:55Speaker 03

  Get me?

• 37:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Honestly, I want him to have memories.

• 38:05Dr. John Delony?

  He's got memories. He's got a great mom. He's got a crazy older brother. He's got great memories. What is the perpetuating this story? What does that get you?

• 38:15Speaker 03

  I didn't have all this growing up. I didn't have memories. I didn't have... I remember sitting at... on my couch on Thanksgiving, eating a Tostinos pizza.

• 38:25Dr. John Delony?

  There we go.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  And I don't want that from my kids, ever.

• 38:29Dr. John Delony?

  They will never have that. You know why? Because they got an awesome mom.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Well, thank you, but...

• 38:37Speaker 03

  Anyway...

• 38:39Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, you can't hear that, and I'm gonna keep saying it until you hear it. Your kids have an awesome mom.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 38:49Dr. John Delony?

  And...

• 38:49Speaker 03

  I've done my best.

• 38:50Dr. John Delony?

  This is... You're doing a great job. You're changing a family tree from the inside. I mean, you're doing amazing stuff. But here's the hard thing, though, okay? I said a nice thing, now I'm gonna say a hard thing.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:02Dr. John Delony?

  Be very careful about using your child's experience for your inner hurt.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:14Dr. John Delony?

  Because then your kid can become a Xanax for your pain. And that's not their job.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  No, it's not.

• 39:22Dr. John Delony?

  And so...

• 39:23Speaker 03

  Just seeing his little face light up.

• 39:24Dr. John Delony?

  I know. It's the best. It's magic. It's magic.

• 39:27Speaker 03

  And then, you know, when they find out, it's just like...

• 39:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, except, except...

• 39:35Dr. John Delony?

  I've done a lot of things not right. I've had to explain jokes that I probably shouldn't have made in front of my kids in way... Like, I haven't done things right. I will say, I think I hit this one out of the park.

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:50Dr. John Delony?

  And can I tell you why?

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 39:52Dr. John Delony?

  Is I didn't wait until it was this moment. And by the way, 5th grade, he's gonna get blown up this year, I can guarantee it.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  I don't know, my kid was in sixth grade almost, you know, like.

• 40:06Dr. John Delony?

  It's different times. Every kid didn't have a smartphone.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  Mine don't either. My oldest does because he's 21.

• 40:14Dr. John Delony?

  But your youngest doesn't, but all his friends do.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  Okay, that's a true point.

• 40:19Dr. John Delony?

  So here's, I, the conversation with my son was something like, I don't even remember how young he was. He was way younger than 11, maybe six or seven or eight. I believe deeply that childhood has been robbed of magic.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 40:33Dr. John Delony?

  And so I love Halloween for them. I love Santa for them. And people always ask me when I say, don't lie to your kids, what about Santa Claus? Dude, it's totally a different thing, right? Um, so I believe in magic for kids. I love it. The outdoors, the woods, forts, like, um, like when I come home and all the couch cushions are off and they've made a fort, I'm all in and blankets are everywhere. Like, I believe in childhood magic because I think it's been stripped away by stupid adults. And there came a moment, I remember the conversation. My son said something like, Dad, I'm gonna ask for something crazy, um, for Christmas. And if I don't get it, I know, I'm gonna pray for something.

• 41:18Dr. John Delony?

  And if God doesn't give it to me, then I'm just gonna ask Santa for it. And I was like, okay, we probably should have this conversation, right? He's starting to conflate the two. And so here's what I did. This is the silliest taster's choice moment and I don't care.

• 41:33Dr. John Delony?

  I said, hey, I need you to meet me in the bed of my pickup truck out in the driveway. And he looked at me kinda weird and I said, we're gonna have a big grown up conversation.

• 41:46Dr. John Delony?

  And he said, okay. And so here's what I did. I set up a totally brand new environment. We've never done that there.

• 41:55Dr. John Delony?

  And I told him, I'm inviting you in to an adult world, just for a minute.

• 42:02Dr. John Delony?

  And the sense he got, he stood six feet tall.

• 42:07Dr. John Delony?

  Because it was, I set it up as, I'm now grabbing your hand and pulling you into another world that you don't even know exists and it's called grown up world. And it's not as fun, but it can be awesome. And I trust you enough with a hard conversation.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 42:24Dr. John Delony?

  And so he sat in there and we had the, we talked it out. I said, there's a story of Santa Claus. You know about Santa Claus? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:35Dr. John Delony?

  You asked me one time, how does Santa Claus fit down the chimney? You asked me one time, how do the reindeer get to every house?

• 42:44Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 42:44Dr. John Delony?

  And then I explained it. But I set up a context where he didn't come home and find out mom and dad were liars. I invited him into level two of the world, into a developmentally appropriate conversation. And then hilariously, at the very end, I said, you have any questions, man, you ask any question you want. And he felt very special. And then he goes, tooth fairy? And I go, nope. And he goes, uh, he started laughing. I mean, he was a young kid, but the way he was like, tooth fairy? And I was like, nope. And he just started cracking up. But I was like, that's the way adults love, we don't get to play anymore. This is how we get to re-experience childhood. And he was like, yeah, that's awesome.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 43:28Dr. John Delony?

  And then when, he had the exact opposite reaction that your son has, because he had a sister come along six years later, and he kept it magic for her.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:37Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 43:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:39Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you, ah, man, if, if you're moving this along down the road because you're scared of the conversation, or you want to avoid it as long as possible, because you want to make sure that your kid doesn't ever feel like you felt, rest assured, they never will. Your kid's so loved, it's amazing.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  He is loved.

• 44:00Dr. John Delony?

  Does your kid ever had Pop Tarts on the couch for Thanksgiving?

• 44:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no.

• 44:05Dr. John Delony?

  All right. So let's, let's.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  I mean, our family's small, but I grew up with my grandparents. So my cousins were all 15 years older than me, you know, so.

• 44:15Dr. John Delony?

  So let's traffic in reality. Let's feel our feelings, but then let's ask, is this true? And what's true is, no. My son has a very different experience than I had. He is loved.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:25Dr. John Delony?

  He knows mystery and excitement and fun. And. Before I let him just stumble into this and discover it, I'm going to take his hand and he's going to walk with me into this next thing.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  Is he gonna be heartbroken?

• 44:42Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 44:44Dr. John Delony?

  Or he might be completely excited. He'll be heartbroken if he finds on his own that mom and dad hadn't been telling him the truth. What else have they been telling me?

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love that.

• 44:55Dr. John Delony?

  He might be completely energized. My N equals one and my, or my daughter had this very, I did the same thing with my daughter and she did, she was like that too. So I've got two examples of I'm, before that you find out, I'm going to invite you into

• 45:14Dr. John Delony?

  a new kind of magic, which is adulthood. It's kind of rad. It's also kind of a bum deal, but it's kind of rad. Right? And I'm going to invite you into this world, um, just for a minute and then you gotta go back to being a kid. But there was no heartbreak in those two, but I controlled the environment, made it special, made them feel bigger than they really were, treated them with dignity and respect, told them the truth, all those things.

• 45:39Dr. John Delony?

  I always want my kids to, I don't ever want my kids to discover something out in the world and think, I don't think I can bring this home. Or why did my parents tell me this? And so this is just one of those moments when you're going to have to have the conversation. You're gonna have to have the conversation about sex. I'd rather you create a like natural conversation in the house and they always know they can have conversations. They're gonna want to know questions about your mom and dad. Ooh, that's gonna be tough. I'm just not gonna hide things, but I'm also not gonna rob my kids of magic either. And I don't know. I love the story of Santa. I think it's fun. I think it's one of the last things we got left and, but there does come a moment. In fifth grade, it feels about right for me.

• 46:22Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, it feels a little bit at the top end of right. I think I went earlier. Kelly, how old were you guys when you ruined your kid's childhood?

• 46:28Speaker 04

  Um, my son was probably about 4th grade.

• 46:32Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 46:32Speaker 04

  But we handled it. Every time he would ask, we would say, "Well, what do you think?"

• 46:36Dr. John Delony?

  Ah, okay.

• 46:37Speaker 04

  That's how we always handled it. And then I remember one year, he said, "I think I know..." And I said, "Well, do you want to talk about it?" He said, "Not yet."

• 46:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 46:46Speaker 04

  He wasn't ready yet. And then the next year, he asked again, and I said, "Well, what do you think?" And he said, "I don't think he's real." But we have a special needs child in our house, an adult, who still believes. And we brought him in on... And I think you can do that with siblings.

• 47:01Dr. John Delony?

  It's the best, yeah.

• 47:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, we brought him, and he helps us now do that, and he loves it. But yeah, that was always our answer. "Well, what do you think?" You know? So kind of letting them lead the conversation.

• 47:12Dr. John Delony?

  But yeah, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th. I mean, kids are... Every kid's different. But don't let your heartbreak dictate how you think his feelings are gonna go. And you know your kid, so you'll know how to make it special. For me, in Texas, it was the back of a truck, in the bed of a truck. I don't know. A great question. And if y'all are listening to this, and you didn't let your kids out of the room, and they just found out Santa's not real, "I told you so." We'll be right back.

• 47:42Dr. John Delony?

  I travel the country for a living. And if you've seen me on stages, if you've seen me at comedy clubs, wherever you've seen me, you've almost surely seen me wearing Poncho shirts. I love my Poncho shirts. And it's cold outside now, so I can wear my favorite Poncho shirts, the denims and flannels. Poncho's Performance Denim has that soft, broken-in feel with a little bit of stretch. It's like you've worn it 1,000 times, but it still looks amazing. And Poncho flannels, like the one I'm wearing right now, come in original or western styles, and they are guaranteed to be the softest shirts you own. Somehow, they're both durable and comfortable. Poncho shirts come in slim or regular fit, and they're built for real life.

• 48:25Dr. John Delony?

  I wear them on stages, I wear them to church, and I wear them when I'm out working in the woods. They are ready for whatever life throws at them. When you're shopping for the men and boys in your life this holiday season, go to ponchooutdoors.com/daloney and get them hooked up. Sign up with your email and you'll get 10 bucks off your first order. And tell Poncho you heard about them right here on this show. And if you're into the social media thing, take a picture of the men in your life wearing Poncho and tag me and tag Poncho. Hurry right now and get your order placed to get free shipping before the holidays. That's ponchooutdoors.com/daloney. All right, we're back with a money and marriage question.

• 49:09Dr. John Delony?

  This is a good one. Um, this is an anonymous question that I received at the money and marriage retreat. Uh, we got one, by the time this comes out, the November one will already have happened, right? Yeah, and we've got one, limited tickets if it's not sold out in February, Valentine's Day weekend here in Nashville. All right, here is a question from the anonymous question box. My husband always said he would get a vasectomy when we were done having kids. Now that we're done, he says he won't get one. How do I get him to follow through with his, our plan?

• 49:48Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, there's a nuclear option here, which is when you take care of your end of the deal,

• 49:59Dr. John Delony?

  you can have my end of the deal. I shouldn't have said it like that. I mean, I mean, hey, we made an agreement. I'm not taking the pill anymore. We're not using condoms anymore. And so shops closed until you keep up. I mean, you can play that game. Um, the deeper, probably more realistic conversation is, um, why? Why have you said, I'm not going to do this anymore? Is it something because of bad information that you got on Instagram that like, if you men who get vasectomies don't have just stupid stuff like that? That's just simply nonsense and not true? Or, um, is it? A fear of going into the doctor's office and having someone chip chop,

• 50:44Dr. John Delony?

  chip chop, chip chop. And if that's the case, um, you can just have him go with you to your next annual and you can see what you go through all the time and he can get over himself. Um, or I mean, it's getting to the, okay, you have gone back on what you said you're gonna do. I'm asking, I'm being curious instead of judgmental.

• 51:03Dr. John Delony?

  I want to see you and I want to know you. Why? What are your big concerns? And let's have that hard conversation. Um, because I think there's twofold here. One, I don't want to get pregnant again is what it sounds like here. We've agreed we don't want any more kids. And yet we got a live, we got a loaded weapon here. And so I want to protect ourselves. And the second thing is, um,

• 51:29Dr. John Delony?

  you're going back on what you said. You didn't keep your word and

• 51:34Dr. John Delony?

  maybe that's the second time, third time, 10th time, he's made a plan that he didn't follow through on. And so let's get to the deeper issue here and have the harder conversation, the thing behind the thing behind the thing.

• 51:47Dr. John Delony?

  But for whatever it's worth, every single guy I know that's got a vasectomy has given it a 10 out of 10, 100 out of 100. Hashtag just say it. Thank you so much. I love you guys. Stay out of trouble. Bye.