#666 Investing in the Future Crypto World with Kyle Samani

Kyle Samani is a Co-Founder and Managing Partner at Multicoin Capital, a thesis-driven investment firm with a global footprint that invests exclusively in the crypto ecosystem. Multicoin Capital manages several billion in assets across hedge funds and venture funds. In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, crypto investment thesis, and how Kyle sees the future unfolding in crypto. ======================= Choice is a new self-directed IRA product that I'm really excited about. If you are listening to this, you are likely part of the 7.1 million bitcoin owners who have retirement accounts with dollars in them, but not bitcoin. I was in that situation too. Now you can actually buy real Bitcoin in your retirement account. I'm talking about owning your private keys and using tax-advantaged dollars to do it too. Absolute game changer. https://www.retirewithchoice.com/pomp ======================= Not too many people know this, but thousands of investors are flocking to a new asset class. They are strategically allocating to this stable, yet high-performing alternative to offset the volatility of their holdings, which is a pretty smart move. So what am I talking about? Spoiler Alert: it’s Contemporary Art. Lots of investors are bullish on art for three main reasons. One, Contemporary art outperformed the S&P 500, gold, and real estate by nearly 174% from 1995-2020. Two, stability: there’s almost no correlation to public equities according to research by Citi. Three: it’s the perfect fit alongside crypto investments in portfolios. I even partnered with the only platform that lets you invest in contemporary art to give you all a head start. Visit masterworks.io/pomp to get priority access today. Paid advertisement. See important disclosures at masterworks.io/disclaimer

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Kyle Somani is a co-founder and managing partner at MultiCoin Capital, a thesis-driven investment firm with a global footprint that invests exclusively in the crypto ecosystem. MultiCoin Capital manages several billion in assets across hedge funds and venture capital funds. In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, crypto investment thesis, and how Kyle sees the future unfolding in crypto. I really enjoyed this conversation with Kyle, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is BlockFi. BlockFi provides

• 0:44Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:26Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:53Anthony Pompliano?

  investments in portfolios. Guys, I even partnered with the only platform that lets you invest in contemporary art to give you all a head start. Visit masterworks.io/pomp to get priority access today. They've got a really long waitlist, but if you go through that specific link, masterworks.io/pomp, you'll skip the entire waitlist. So go to masterworks.io/pomp and get started today. All right, let's get this episode with Kyle. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Kyle, what's up, man?

• 3:47Speaker 02

  What's up? What's up, Pop? How are you?

• 3:49Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm doing fantastic. You back in the US now?

• 3:51Speaker 02

  I'm back at home in Austin.

• 3:53Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, let's uh, let's get started with the multi-coin investment thesis to begin with. What is kind of the way that you describe it to folks in terms of where you guys are investing in the ecosystem?

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we have kind of three mega theses that guide our investments. One is we call open finance, which is kind of a super set of D5. Two is Web three, which is relatively broad, and three is kind of the opportunity for non-sovereign money. I've been spending, I'd say, most of my time recently kind of in the Web three bucket, looking at new ways to build incentive systems to cause, to get people to do stuff in the real world. So like kind of Helium is the best example of this, which we invested in a couple of years ago. But as these kind of blockchain, this blockchain infrastructure matures, I think we're, we're going to see a lot of entrepreneurs say, hey, we can, you know, hand out tokens to people, incentivize them to perform some behaviors, and, and kind of create new kinds of markets that couldn't exist before.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  We just did two deals that we haven't announced yet that kind of fit that bucket. And I'm thinking there's going to be like hundreds more of these over the next few years. I'm, I'm pretty pumped about it.

• 4:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Describe a little bit about how Helium works as one example, and then maybe you can also talk a little bit about this whole idea of like play to earn as another example of changing, you know, kind of human behavior based on economic incentives.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, happy to dive into this. So Helium is a new business model for deploying and managing wireless networks. So think about wireless networks today, if you're Verizon or AT&T or whatever, you want to build a network, you go figure out where you want to put towers, you call up the people who own the land, you rent the land from them, you hire a bunch of guys to drive around with hard hats, install a bunch of towers, run a bunch of backhaul, and then obviously you have to have ongoing maintenance, right? Over, over that, extremely capital intensive. Like one of the most capital intensive businesses in the world. The only way to finance that is to take on a huge amount of debt, and the only way to get debt providers to guarantee that financing is you need to have, you know, lock your customers into two-year contracts. So you have guaranteed revenue.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  And so this, this kind of entire model, right, is like very, very top-down for both the financing and from the capex and deployment. Helium is basically the exact opposite of that. In Helium, the idea is anyone who wants to provide wireless coverage in their area can buy a hotspot, which is about yea big, they can plug it into the electricity in their home or their small business, they plug in the ethernet cable, and there's an antenna on the back, and that provides wireless coverage, and any device Walking around nearby can pay per byte of data to the hotspot host for providing providing coverage in that in that local area. But the beautiful thing about this model is you literally take out like 98 or 99% of the cost of the system. Land cost goes to zero. Labor cost goes to zero.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  But running backhaul cost goes to zero because you're just leveraging the internet connection that's in the person's home or small business. You literally remove costs from the system. And then you also just make it, you know, if there's poor coverage somewhere, you give people an incentive to put up a hotspot and like get good coverage, you know, instead of depending on on the Verizon or the AT&T gods to try and provide that for you. And so it's much more resilient. It naturally responds to economic incentives. And it's just like, it's obviously kind of like the right way to build a network. So the helium network launched in 2019. Today, there's 170,000 hotspots all over the world. And there's other, I think, 600 or 700,000 hotspots that have been ordered but not yet shipped. And the cool thing is, is these hotspots mine tokens. They mine a token called HNT, kind of similar to Bitcoin mining.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  And then if you want to use the network, you have to you have to basically buy H and T tokens and burn them. And so H and T really modeled it kind of after oil. Why, like, oil comes out of the ground? If you want to use oil, you put it in your car, you literally light it on fire. Same basic kind of idea here with with H and T.

• 7:42Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think of that model, that is a way to change the economic kind of structure of wireless networks. This play to earn, I think people are very interested in because it changed the way that people thought about working. It's changed the human behavior. How do you guys think about that? Have you made any investments there?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  We have not even made any investments in things that I would call play to earn. The idea of play to earn is pretty straightforward. It's pay people to do stuff. That was invented 5,000 years ago and like helium is paying people to do stuff. In the case of helium, it's build a wireless network. In the case of Axie, for example, it's clicks and buttons on the screen. Right, but that's kind of the core idea. The real question is going to be, as you build larger and larger online worlds, things that look like World of Warcraft, Eve Online, as kind of older examples, but then more recently, things like Star Atlas and Fortnite, the question is going to be You know, are there opportunities to have real economies in those games? And then if so, there's going to need to be some notion of kind of extracting resources out of the ground. Obviously, this is virtual ground or virtual space as opposed to the physical space.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  But like, that's going to be there. And if that's there, then you're, you know, you should see. There's like today, there are people who are farmers and there are people who work on oil rigs and whatever. You should see kind of equivalent types of of concepts and ideas in this virtual, you know, virtual environment. And the opportunity to make money will be, you know, mining those resources or pulling them out of the ground, so to speak. And then selling them to people who want to use them in some productive way within the context of whatever virtual economy that is.

• 9:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk to us about Solana. Maybe you can describe first what it is and then we can go through the the investment you guys made.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  So Solana is blockchain founded in early 2018. We're the largest investors in it. It launched, the blockchain launched in March of last year. Tokenless Bitcoin is in April of last year. Today, I think it's number six or number seven on the coin market cap. We, Solana is a smart contract blockchain, so it performs smart contracts. It is pretty radically different in the design than Ethereum and across a number of dimensions. How the system routes data around, how it executes transactions, the programming languages. It's a very different take on a blockchain than Ethereum or Bitcoin. Where Ethereum is this kind of like Bitcoin's cousin in a lot of ways. Solana is just like a totally, totally different animal.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  And the Solana team from inception, their number one priority was always make the system go as fast as possible. Reduce the block times to be as quick as you can. Now, given the speed of light and the amount of time it takes to go around the world, you can get that down to maybe 200 milliseconds if you're lucky. Today, Solana is at about 400 milliseconds. And then enable it to execute transactions as fast as humanly possible. So leverage, you know, parallel transaction processing on modern GPUs, which have, call it 4,000 cores, to execute as many transactions as quickly as possible. And Solana was designed from the ground up to do that, you know, as efficiently as it can. And today, it's, you know, there's a thriving ecosystem building all kinds of stuff on Solana. There's DeFi, there's

• 10:42Speaker 02

  There's tons of social tokens. There's tons of NFTs. There's two kinds of games. There's just a whole huge amount of stuff all happening on Solana. Fees are super cheap, fraction of a penny to send a transaction. Transactions confirm within a second or two. It's a really magical experience to use.

• 10:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk to us about when you met the team and the initial investment that you guys made.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I met Anatoly and Raj, who are the two primary co-founders in April of 2018, and invested shortly thereafter. The original slide deck for Solana, the title slide, if you look at it, actually said NASDAQ for blockchain. Anatoly was the founder and CEO of Solana Labs and the chief architect of the system. His vision from day one was, I want to run a central limit order book on the blockchain. He did not, at the time, I think, have a conceptualization of modern DeFi and all of the interesting things happening there. He understood that this was going to be useful for finance things. And he said, okay, you need to have an order book to run an exchange. And he designed to build the world's largest, fastest decentralized order book engine. And Solana was that. That was his vision from day one. And I was very fortunate, the blockchain launched in March or April of last year.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  And Sam from FTX, like a month or two later, was really excited about DeFi. And was like, can't build Ethereum, never going to do what I wanted to do. Sam really, really, really wanted to build an order book. And Solana provided him the foundation, needed to build an order book. And so that turned into Serum. And Serum is now probably the most widely used piece of infrastructure for Solana-based DeFi applications.

• 12:10Anthony Pompliano?

  What was the initial investment that you made? Because I think, from what I understand, this is probably one of the best venture investments in at least recent history. Walk us through the dynamics of the investment and how you think about it in hindsight.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Solana raised money in May or so of that year. They raised, of 18, they raised another round in maybe August or September. Then we went into winter, crypto winter, after the November crash in 18. We ended up buying out a lot of other investors who got cold feet after that crash. They did one more private round in June of 19, which we led. We led all three of those rounds. And then they did a coin list sale in March of 20, right as the blockchain launched. And the token's been trading. freely since then. The token launched, they call it forty or fifty cents. The last private round was at twenty two cents, if I recall correctly. And I think today it's at one fifty or one sixty. In terms of dynamics in the round, I mean, at the time, a lot of people didn't like.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Solana was a very, I'd say, not popular bet among the crypto crowd. Because it didn't feel like the other blockchains. It made a different set of trade offs. And, you know, Anatoly was very, very focused on speed and performance and much less focused on like crypto cryptography and academics and economics. And so it felt very weird. I think to most crypto people. That's exactly what kind of drew us, drew us to what he was doing, was A, the clarity of the vision. He said, I want to build a central order book on a blockchain. We didn't know if it was possible or not. I was actually kind of skeptical it could get done, but it got done. And, you know, he had the exact right background to build what he's built.

• 13:45Anthony Pompliano?

  What was the cheapest price you ever bought a token at? Was it at that twenty cents or something lower than that?

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Uh, there was, the very first round was at four cents.

• 13:56Anthony Pompliano?

  So what you think about that, is this kind of the, I think one of the big theses that you all have had is like, is venture capital like returns with kind of shorter timeframes to liquidity? Is this kind of a prime example of what you think the opportunity is outside of kind of Bitcoin or like the blue chip type assets in the space?

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, I mean, I don't think there's going to be another Solana. I'm not counting on it happening in my career. I would love it if it happens again, but I'm not expecting it to happen. And it's just a very weird set of kind of historical circumstances that led the market as a whole to neglect this asset for such a long period of time. And only recently has the market kind of come around to appreciating it for what it is. But I think Solana today is pretty close to blue chip within crypto. I mean, it's number six or number seven, you know, on market cap. So it's pretty high up there. The opportunity from here is, the question is, what's the upside? Is it at its peak? And, you know, the primary way to think about Solana is relative to ETH. Today, the market cap of Sol is twelve or thirteen percent of Ethereum's, thereabouts.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  And, uh, you know, obviously the bears will say it should be one percent. The bulls will say it should be equal to Ethereum. I mean, you have to kind of render your own judgment of how this thing is going to stack up and rank. I would say six months ago, it was still extremely non-consensus to acknowledge that something was going to give Ethereum around for its money. Today, I think there are, I think a lot of intellectual capitalists in crypto believes Solana is going to coexist with Ethereum. Will it displace Ethereum? I don't know. I think it's actually pretty improbable. There's so much inertia around the Ethereum ecosystem. I don't think that can be displaced. It's very clear that this thing is going to coexist. Solana today is growing at an extremely rapid pace. Users being onboarded, assets being issued, stablecoins going into it.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  All of these things, look at the last nine days, it's just a vertical line from, call it, a billion in assets to like 10 billion.

• 15:47Anthony Pompliano?

  You, on your initial investment, are up 3,750x, give or take, which is, which is pretty incredible. I see your smile, which means that you've thought of that before. Talk to us about how you think about price movements today. So Solana ran all the way up to, you know, 200, 210 dollars, then it crashed down to 140, 150. It's almost hilarious to call it crash because it was at like two or three bucks at the beginning of the year. How do you think about price volatility as a new network like this ends up getting repriced by the market?

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we are not a trading firm and I generally try and ignore prices to the best of my ability. I never actually open CoinGecko or CoinMarketCap. I see prices as I scroll through Twitter, but you know, if it weren't for that, I wouldn't know what the prices are. We don't kind of make, we don't render judgment on short-term or even medium-term price movements. Our time horizon is measured in years, not weeks or months. So the question we always ask ourselves is, you know, is this network compounding at a sufficiently fast rate? And if you really go dig into developer activity, user onboarding, dollar flow in the system, all of those things right now are compounding at an astounding rate. And I don't think that's going to slow down. In fact, I make pretty arguments for why it's going to accelerate.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Does that mean Solana can't go down from here? No, dude, we can wake up tomorrow, it could be 50 bucks. You know, that's on the table. Like, this is crypto, you know, that just kind of happens. But we're super bullish, and yeah, we're riding this thing.

• 17:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk to me about how you think of the market structure right now. There's a lot of people who think through the end of the year Bitcoin and Ether along with all the other assets have kind of a big move upwards toward to kind of end the bull market or capture the full potential of a bull market. Do you all have any perspective on Bitcoin through the end of the year or Ether whether from a price standpoint or any sort of kind of outlook there?

• 17:36Speaker 02

  We don't have a real outlook on the price of BTC USD or ETH USD, not where we spend our time and energy. I can tell you that we continue to get a lot of phone calls from a lot of extremely sophisticated, large pools of capital all over the world. Those phone calls haven't slowed down this year. Even to kind of the dip in May, June, they didn't slow down and they're not slowing down now. So I'd say I'm pretty optimistic that a substantial amount of net new capital is going to continue to flow into the system. Will that be enough to keep BTC or ETH where it is? I honestly have no idea. I'd say I'm actually much more bullish smaller cap coins than I am BTC and ETH specifically because those assets that have fundamentals, that have valuation model and that aren't as large as BTC and ETH, I think through this next, whenever the market turns as a whole, I believe we're going to see a very large dispersion of returns.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  In the 2018 kind of bear cycle, Bitcoin was down 80 and everything was down 90% plus. I do not think we're going to see anything remotely close to that happen this time around because the assets are understood, they are working, there are people who are being onboarded and using these things every day and you're going to see a pretty large dispersion of returns among high quality assets.

• 18:50Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about either your own personal investing or the fund, how do you guys think of portfolio construction between, again, maybe let's call it top 10 coins, X Solana, because Solana kind of moved up there recently, but what most people would think of as the legacy blue chip assets versus all the other stuff. Do you have kind of a framework as to how you guys allocate capital?

• 19:10Speaker 02

  We have no rules on that. We do own a little bit of Bitcoin in the Far hedge fund, not much, like 3% or 4% or something. We own more ETH than that, but it's not a huge position. Then we own a large position in Sol. Um, I don't believe we own anything else in the top 10. Yeah, probably not. And, uh, we, we have pretty concentrated positions and a handful of, of high quality names of, of investments that we have extremely convicted in thesis. These positions, I think all of them, we've been holding for 12 months plus. And continue, continue, continue holding them. You know, our, our goal is to focus on, on absolute, uh, outperformance. We're trying to maximize returns. We're, we're not adjusting for vol.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  And, uh, our, our holding assets that we think are gonna just change, you know, certain segments of whatever, uh, they, they, they try and do, whether it's helium or Solana or something else.

• 20:00Anthony Pompliano?

  I got two of my brothers here with me. What questions you guys got? Hey Kyle, thanks for doing this.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Hey guys.

• 20:05Anthony Pompliano?

  How you doing?

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Good to meet the whole fam.

• 20:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Good to meet you too, man. Uh, I'm, uh, I'm quite jealous of your investment return on Solana.

• 20:16Anthony Pompliano?

  But it's good to meet you. So my question is around Solana. It's, you mentioned previously that, uh, people were not very comfortable with Solana at first. They, they didn't think it looked or felt like a normal blockchain. Uh, that's obviously changed over, uh, the last, you know, six, 12 months, et cetera. What do you think, if any, like, were those inflection points where people got more comfortable and adoption started to occur?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  The most important one was, was Sam launching Serum for sure. You know, even, even as late as August, September of last year, there were still a, quite a few people in the market who, they didn't take FTX too seriously. Um, we, we were not the first ones to take FTX seriously. Unfortunately, we, we did pass on the FTT seed round in, in March of 19. I kick myself for that, uh, every day. But we, we got on, we kind of recognized FTX for what it was gonna be around the end of 19, early 20. And, you know, when Sam said, okay, I want to build Serum on Solana, uh, obviously that, that made us more convicted in, in Solana. And then you started to see a, a, a group of other investors start to, to get excited. Firms like CMF, Three Arrows, uh, Cino Global, there's probably some others I'm forgetting about.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  Jump Cap, Jump, um, Race, maybe some others. And then the, kind of the communities around these different firms all started to, you know, get, get more and more serious. I think the other next inflection point was, um, Solana and the Serum teams hosted a, a joint hackathon. I want to say it was like over December or January. It was kind of during the winter time, this past winter. And the quality of the submissions was outstanding. So Saber, which is one of our portfolio companies, and I think is the highest TVL protocol on Solana today, with I think three or four billion in TVL, was built at that Hackathon. And today is outstanding team and products. And then Psy Options was built there, Mango was built there.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Those are probably three of the best-known Solana-based V5 protocols started there. And for anyone who's paying attention and looked at those, like, it was clear that there's, these products were not possible to build on Ethereum, especially Mango. Mango is a very sophisticated product. Yeah, you could start to extrapolate of what was going to be possible. I think probably the third and flex point for Solana was probably when Coinbase listed it this year, because it opened it up to a lot more Americans to access this thing. And then this NFT boom, most recently over the last, call it 60 or 90 days, where people were trying to do these NFT drops on Ethereum, and gas fees just got insane. Because you had, you know, 10,000 people trying to hit a transaction at the same time.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  And, you know, I mean, it really turned a lot of people off. Conveniently, the Solana team built a library called MetaPlex, which is basically an NFT library for Solana. And they built it, probably launched it in May of this year. So convenient, very well timed. And as the kind of NFT boom got really hot over the summer, and, you know, other people who were doing NFT drops started to say, oh, this is great. If they can fork MetaPlex and issue NFTs and get running super, super quickly. MetaPlex has been forked 2,000 times in the last 30 days. So there's just a huge amount of activity happening there now. And you kind of couple all of this with the rising of the price, the stablecoins issued and all those things.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  And you can just kind of see the snowball now is rolling at full steam.

• 23:30Anthony Pompliano?

  John, what questions you got? Yeah, Kyle, thank you for doing that.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  This is very nice to meet you. I'm curious, you were talking about Solana optimizing for speed. Can you talk a little bit more about, does it give up anything to optimize for speed? And then can you talk about just like the comparisons between Solana and Ethereum?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, happy to talk on this. So the probably number one criticism levied against Solana is that it's too centralized. It's a pretty vague statement and is in almost all ways, mostly intellectually incorrect. There's a couple of ways in which it's directionally true, but mostly incorrect. The most common specific criticism is the hardware requirements to run a Solana are too high. There's kind of a fundamental question, like Bitcoin is meant to run on like a $10 piece of hardware. Like, right, you can buy a Raspberry Pi for 20 bucks and you can run Bitcoin on there. It's meant to be as cheap and easy to run as possible. Ethereum people used to say it should run on a $500 laptop. They don't really say that anymore because it's not true. But like Ethereum runs on, like, call it a $1,500 laptop or something.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Solana does not run on a $1,500 laptop. Solana runs on, call it a $4,000 gaming server. And obviously not everyone has one of those. And so the most common criticism is that like it's too centralized because you can't run it on your laptop. Which I find to just be kind of silly, you know, like, do you run an email server yourself? You know, do you like host cloud documents yourself? Like, no, right? Like, other people do this. So I find that the historical ethos of crypto was too focused on run your own piece of software and not focused enough on performance. And so Solana does make a trade off of like, you need a beefier piece of hardware to run the thing. But obviously the gains you get are exceptional through better performance through the system.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  That is by far the most common and invalid criticism of Solana. But I think most people fail to realize that like, it doesn't matter. Today, there are about 1,000 nodes running Solana. If you go to solana.beach.io and then hit the validators tab, you can see all those nodes live. I think there's 1,000 and change at the current moment. That's up from, call it, 100 to 200 12 months ago. And like, probably over a year, it's probably going to be like 5,000 or 10,000. And so there's a question of like, okay, well, how decentralized is decentralized enough? You know, I don't know. I think my suspicion is for most people. Who look at these kinds of systems, they're going to say, yeah, at some point between 1,000 and 10,000 nodes, like you have a sufficient degree of decentralization for these things to be, you know, meaningfully censorship resistant.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Uh, is it going to survive US government and Chinese government collaborating to try and shut it down? I don't know. Uh, they may not survive that, right? If you go to some really, really, really, really extreme scenarios. But I'd say for, for, you know, the vast majority of, of intended use cases for these systems, somewhere between the one and 10,000 nodes is probably sufficient. Uh, and Solana is, you know, coming up on that right now. So I, I just don't find that, that criticism to, to matter. Uh, it's, it's valid, but it's just irrelevant.

• 26:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Kyle, when you think about, uh, going forward, is there one area of the industry that no one's talking about? Or very few people, but you think is going to be really, really important? And you're like, hey, if I could get more people to pay attention to this, it would be X.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  I mean, well, my first answer is Solana, but I'm not going to hump on that anymore. Uh, my, my second and better answer is, uh, I kind of mentioned this earlier in the interview, but things that look and feel like helium. Helium is really unique in that, again, it's creating an incentive structure for people to build physical infrastructure in the physical world. Uh, that's a pretty cool idea. Right? Like Bitcoin is an algorithm to incentivize people to do stuff. In this case, unfortunately, the stuff happens to be mining, uh, which is like not productive for society. Uh, but obviously it's a, it's a very well-designed game. Uh, helium is a very well-designed game, but obviously the output of that game is you build a physical network that is, you know, can provide extreme utility to the world.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  I think that model is going to be applied to a ton of industries. And, uh, we are, we have recently led to investments that are not yet announced that are in that same kind of camp. And, uh, I want to lead 50 more over the next two years.

• 27:31Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that is a great place to end. Where can we send people to find you on the internet or find more about MultiCoin?

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you can find me on Twitter. Uh, my Twitter is just my name, at Kyle Samani. And, uh, MultiCoin's website is multicoin dot capital. Uh, and you go there, we have a ton of blog posts and research there. And if you want to subscribe to our blog, there's a little newsletter thing in the top right. Uh, so go ahead and subscribe, uh, there and throw in your email.

• 27:53Anthony Pompliano?

  You have 69.9 followers right now, which is nice. And I think that we probably can push you over there. So I'm going to drop your Twitter account in the chat. Anybody wants to go follow Kyle, go do it. My friend, I appreciate you coming on. Please leave some of the financial returns for the rest of us. And we will definitely have to do this again in the future at some point.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  Hi, Bob. Thanks for having me on. Hey, guys. Great to meet the family. Take care, everyone.

• 28:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Later, buddy.