Chef Matty Matheson of ‘The Bear’ on Culinary Stardom, On and Off The Screen

Canadian chef Matty Matheson has been a force in the culinary world for over two decades, but the non-foodies of the world recognize him as Neil Fak, the goofy, handyman-come-waiter-in-training on the FX/Hulu hit series The Bear. Aside from being the show’s much-needed comic relief, Matheson is an executive producer and a culinary consultant on set. Matheson first became chef de cuisine in his early 20s and now owns over a dozen restaurants. He also runs an incredibly popular YouTube channel with over 1.5 million subscribers and he’s authored three cookbooks – his latest, Soups, Salads, Sandwiches, came out in October. Kara and Matty talk about the good, bad and ugly of the restaurant industry, why he loves both haute cuisine and homestyle cooking and how his YouTube persona changes when he puts on his chef’s hat. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on Instagram and TikTok @onwithkaraswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Kara Swisher?

  I needed a happy interview, and I hope you are. If you're not, that's just the way it's going to go. I don't know what to say.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  You know, we'll see. I'm pretty happy.

• 0:08Kara Swisher?

  Okay, good. I think that's your whole brand, from what I understand.

• 0:22Kara Swisher?

  Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is chef, restaurateur, cookbook author, and actor-producer Matty Matheson. If you're a foodie, you've probably known about Matty for a while. He's had review-worthy restaurants in Canada for more than a decade. He currently has 13 restaurants with varying cuisines. His third cookbook, Soups, Salads, and Sandwiches, came out in October. He has a farm and a bunch of other food-based business ventures. If you aren't a foodie, you might recognize him from the Hulu FX show The Bear, which has won 21 Primetime Emmys. Season three was recently nominated for five Golden Globes. Matty got signed onto the show to be a food consultant and ended up with a role and an executive producer title.

• 1:07Kara Swisher?

  No, he's not the Calvin Klein model lead Carmi, also known as Jeremy Allen White, or the evil sadist chef de cuisine who demoralizes Carmi at the fancy New York restaurant. Matty plays Neil Fak, the tattooed, kind-of-goofy family friend who also is a handyman who starts out just hanging around the restaurant, playing video games, and ends up being some kind of emotional whisperer to Carmi as he's been going through what is clearly an emotional break while trying to get a Michelin star in season three. One thing that's important to me is my son Louis is a huge fan of Matty's YouTube channel and his show Cooking Something with Matty Matheson. He has something like 1.5 million followers on YouTube and, of course, more across social

• 1:49Kara Swisher?

  media, especially among young people like my son, who is also an aspiring cook and may not become a chef, but he certainly loves doing it. I want to talk to Matty about his role in The Bear, in front of the camera and behind the scenes. I want to talk to him about his career as someone who didn't do well in school and found his passion through cooking, and why he thinks food translates so well to a younger YouTube audience. He's a big punk fan, but also a kitchen-table philosopher of sorts. He's a really thoughtful guy, despite his gonzo reputation.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Support for the show comes from Engine. Running a small business means every dollar has to work hard. But if your team is still booking travel the old way, it's costing you more than you think. Engine is the fastest growing travel and spend platform in the country, built specifically for businesses like yours. Book a trip in as little as two and a half minutes, earn up to 10% back on hotels. And in 2025, Engine customers save more than $300 million on travel with zero booking fees, no contracts, and no BS. More than 1,000 businesses join Engine every month. Join them and get $500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at engine.com/box.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  I'm Ina Garten, and each week on Happy Hour, I invite new and old friends for a drink and a fun conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. On this week's episode, I'm joined by Jennifer Garner. We talk all about what it means to be a good friend, Jen's encyclopedic knowledge of my recipes, and the Paris tour I put together for Jen and her daughter. New episodes of Happy Hour are available every Wednesday. You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Cheers.

• 3:51Speaker 04

  Megan Opino here. This week on Why Are You Like This?, I am talking with New York Times bestselling author and meditator Young Québlos. We talk about moving from Ecuador to Boston as a young child, pulling himself up from rock bottom, and how meditation changed his life. I get his thoughts on the state of the wellness industry, and he decides if he's more mommy, daddy, or baby. Check out the latest episode of Why Are You Like This?, wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.

• 4:23Kara Swisher?

  Hi, Matty. Welcome. Thanks for being on On. I really appreciate you doing this. So let's talk about your cookbook to start with. You came out with your third one in October. You already have two bestsellers. In 2018, you published Matty Matheson, A Cookbook. And in 2020, Homestyle Cookery. This one's more focused, soup, salads, and sandwiches. And I guess that's what cookbook writers do, start big and then hone in on specific courses or types of food. But in the intro to the third book, you wrote something I thought was interesting. Let me read it. "Sometimes cooking is scary or makes you feel uncomfortable. That's okay. Even I'm uncomfortable when I'm cooking, but the power of cooking always outweighs the fears and the anxieties, as long as the love is just a little greater than the hate or eating good tonight." I don't think that's what people expect with

• 5:08Kara Swisher?

  a glossy soup, sandwich, salads cookbook. Talk about what you're trying to say there.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  I don't know. Every day, people are feeling feelings. And I think cooking is a way to kind of have a release. For me, it's relatively easy to cook. I don't have to really think about how I'm gonna cook. It's more about what I'm gonna cook. And I think a lot of people have to really think about what they're gonna cook and how they're gonna cook it. And I think that can be overwhelming on top of everything else that's going on in people's lives. And yeah, I just think that food is one of those things that is, it's kind of

• 5:54Speaker 01

  an uncompromising love. It's a force that nourishes you. It's a force that, you know, you get to create. And it builds character and it builds, I don't know, I just, I really, I really love it. But it's also like, doing it is stressful at times, you know, especially with kids and life and everything else. And then trying to manage time and manage a good meal, it can really sometimes get you...

• 6:28Speaker 01

  And even a darker place sometimes, or it adds to the stresses of life.

• 6:32Kara Swisher?

  Right. So tell me, what adds to the stresses of life and cooking for you? What's the greater hate? And okay, hate's probably strong, but you wrote that.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:41Kara Swisher?

  Give me a moment that causes you hate and one that causes you love, like an act of cooking.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Um, well, love is easy. I think it's even like last night I made uh some beef stroganoff.

• 6:55Kara Swisher?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  And um, yeah, I made this like lovely meal um for everyone at home. And then my son was just like, I don't like mushrooms. My daughter, Rizzo, she was like, I want shrimp. And then Ozzy, my youngest, is like, I want pasta. And I'm like, well, you guys told me you all liked stroganoff and we've had it multiple times. And that's why I made one meal. And um, you know, the frustration sets in and then uh all of a sudden I'm trying to get them to taste it and they don't want to taste it. And I picked the mushrooms out for my son and then he's like, I do like the mushrooms.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  And you're just in this comp, like you're constantly in this negotiation of of trying to.

• 7:44Kara Swisher?

  You're a short order chef is what you are.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then also it's like, I'm doing this thing and like, my daughter has to, you know, she's got gymnastics. My son has Taekwondo.

• 7:53Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  All these things are happening. I have to have dinner ready by four thirty. And um, you know, but it's it's that thing where all of a sudden you're cooking with love. You're excited. The kids all said they wanted stroganoff and then they turned their backs on you. And then it turns into like, I'm negotiating against three, you know, uncompromising forces, you know?

• 8:16Kara Swisher?

  I have four kids. I've been there. I've been there with that. Or else, um, we had one, my brother's kid, my brother's also a great cook. And one of his kids would only eat things that are white. Like, like it just white food, like pasta, butter, Parmesan, toast, things like that, which was difficult. And I was like, stop short order shoving your kids. Give them what you want. And he said, you'll see. And of course I did. But you you come from kind of a punk background. Writers have called your approach gonzo. Um.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:46Kara Swisher?

  Is that how you would describe it? Sort of the shut the fuck up if you don't like it attitude? You don't sound like that at all. Who are you cooking for? What's your style? I'm thinking of like fucks that's delicious and that kind of that. It's that genre of cook or maybe not.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I'm like, it's funny because it is like one of those things where I've always. I've had like multiple types of careers around things and I've done things a lot of the way that I've done. I've done them the way that I've done them, you know? I've made cooking videos for over 10 years now. I've always kind of been myself and spoke in the way that I speak and um, I'm funny. I'm this, I'm whatever, I'm loud, all that kind of stuff. But like, I think like in the restaurants, it's very different. I put my actual kind of chef mind at work and do those types of things and want to be a chef, you know?

• 9:43Speaker 01

  And I am a chef with with our restaurants. And and so it is like one of those things where it's like very different hats that I'm able to kind of put on in those different scenarios of like the way that I am on YouTube is certainly not the way that I am in a professional kitchen in one of our restaurants.

• 9:59Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  And so it is like a very different kind of scope in each situation. And um, yeah, I I don't know, like I did like Gonzo, it's like whatever. I I'm like, I have no idea. I am who I am and and I've done what I've done. And I think it's just like it all speaks for itself, you know, kind of thing of what types of restaurants I have and the vibes of those restaurants and everything that I care about and how I feel about restaurants is what we're trying to kind of emulate in these spaces is like what I believe is really great hospitality and really great food. And like, that's all I'm trying to do. And I think it is like, you know, at a younger age when I was like, you know, I was a chef when I was like 26.

• 10:43Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Like I I opened our first restaurant when I was 26 years old. I'm 42 now, you know? It's been a long kind of career of of that.

• 10:54Kara Swisher?

  Let's talk about that later. You you talked about how you weren't particularly good in school as a kid and the culinary school changed your life.

• 11:01Kara Swisher?

  What do you think the environment, why a cooking environment worked where school didn't?

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, culinary school was an amazing thing because I think it was. I wasn't good at, I wasn't good at high school. I wasn't good at like going to math class, going to science class, going to whatever the heck it was. Um, nothing clicked. You know, I never had that thing where I was like, I love English. I love writing. I love reading. I love, I love science. I never had anything that I like really gravitated towards. In high school, all I wanted to do is like go to like punk shows and like hang out with my friends and you know, do kid shit. And so when I went to culinary school, it was like this amazing thing happened where I loved cooking and I was reasonably good

• 11:50Speaker 01

  at it. And I, I found a natural ability where before I didn't have, I never felt that. I never was great at sports. I was never good at, um, school. So then all of a sudden I'm in school, but I'm doing something I genuinely love and I'm getting good grades. So then all of a sudden you're like, oh, if I show up every day and I'm in my clean chef whites and I do what the chef says and I, you know, make the food that we're making that day in a timely, clean fashion and be efficient and, you know, maintain my station. All of a sudden I get good grades and I was just like, this is amazing. And it was like a thing that like built self-esteem and confidence and, um, all these things

• 12:34Speaker 01

  that I never really felt for years going to school. And so then I was just like, this is an amazing place. I loved it.

• 12:41Kara Swisher?

  So one of the things, when you think about becoming a chef, we're going to talk about the bear in just a minute, but it's the idea of having, um, trauma and insecurity. For example, a lot of chefs, that's the, the idea. Um, and it's, it's usually a big complaint to people in the culinary world of, of trauma, insecurity, being verbally abused, et cetera. Um, how do you look at the environment right now of the restaurant business?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I don't know. I think people are learning a lot. I think, um, you know, the, the brigade style of this, uh, you know, singular chef, uh, person that has the almighty say is one thing. Um, and you know, I worked in great French restaurants and, and some were ran like that. Um, and some were a little more collaborative and amazing and. I don't know. I think the landscape right now is a lot of people are aware of the history and aware of the, you know, unsustainable work that came along with a lot of those

• 13:47Speaker 01

  types of restaurants. And I think now is this amazing thing where we understand what people want and what people deserve and how to give them that and create kitchens that are, you know, a unified problem solving team and are giving people infrastructure and training on how to do what we want. A lot of restaurants, it was based on learning how to do something. You're shown once or twice and then you have to execute and then if you mess up, you would get in trouble. And I think that that type of learning and that type of teaching isn't really that sustainable. I think you need to be able

• 14:31Speaker 01

  to talk to your team members constantly, give them understanding if they're not catching something, help them. You know, you get more bees with honey, you know, it's one of those things. And you're able to do that without yelling and you're able to do that without being mean, you know?

• 14:52Kara Swisher?

  When you see that, what do you think? When you see the yelling? You know, I'm thinking Gordon Ramsay, of course, he's made it almost a brand and famous.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, like it is like one of those things where I think if a chef's yelling, it means that they're not communicating properly. And a lot of chefs, I think, believe that people can read their minds. And if you just leave somebody out on the lurch, like trying to figure something out, and they don't do exactly what you think, and then you get frustrated by that dish not being up to your standards, then there could have been more communication. There could have been more teaching, more handholding, more thought on your side. But a yelling chef is somebody who's lost control.

• 15:33Kara Swisher?

  Speaking of control, you have a bunch of restaurants. Is it, I don't know, 15, 10, 11?

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like 13, I think.

• 15:41Kara Swisher?

  13. So you have Prime Seafood Palace, you have Rizzo's House of Parm, Maddie's Patty's Burger Club, the Bon Mee Restaurant. You've pushed back against the idea that you have an empire, but a lot of chefs do have an empire, and this feels like one. Talk about why you have so many restaurants and what's your goal in having all these different places?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Um, I think empire is just a stupid word to use in a, in a small business. We're, we're still ran, we run it like a small business. We're an independent restaurant. I'm not backed by some giant VC company or some development company, you know? So we are able to run our restaurants a little bit differently than these like larger groups. And um, yeah, my, my goal is to make beautiful restaurants that inspire me and things that come from my background and come from the history of my life and things that I really connect with. And Cafe Rang is, is, you know, our love letter to Vietnam and my, my friendship

• 16:44Speaker 01

  and partnership with Rang is an incredible thing. And I think like Maddie's Patties is started from me and Pat Tenore cooking cheeseburgers in Hawaii for kids, you know? It, they all come from something. So it's just like, I think building these restaurants and creating these spaces is just me showing the world in Toronto specifically, like where I come from and, and what makes me. And like, that's the way that I want to like present myself and, and give people food and give people a place to go and eat.

• 17:22Kara Swisher?

  What's your, do you cook at all these places? No. Do you set the menus? What's your role now when you have this many restaurants?

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I work with our, all of our chefs in front of house. I create all of the restaurants and the design and the menus and work with all of our team members on, on creating these spaces. I'm working with all of the chefs on ideation and writing the menus and then executing recipes and getting the recipes up to our standards and getting them to a level. And then I'm just constantly working with everybody, you know, just dialing in these businesses and dialing in our, our food and, and our beverage systems and working with them daily, you know?

• 18:07Kara Swisher?

  When you're figuring out what has to go between all the restaurants, is there a through line for any of them at all? There's a, in season three of The Bear, they talk about non-negotiables, right? Carmy makes a list of things that are non-negotiables, like personal hygiene, confidence and competence, no repeat ingredients. Richie has his own list, including an environment that embraces razzle-dazzle and dream weave, which are interesting. It sounds like something you might say. But do you have a non-negotiable list for your restaurants or your teams? And what's on it or what should be?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have different, each space has, you know, I think it's just more of core values and things like that and our standards of what we, how we show up for work and how we execute the job every day and how we uplift each other. And yeah, there's a bunch of that kind of stuff. Like, there's a baseline of cleanliness and professionalism and all those types of things on all of our restaurants. And then each space and restaurant has definitely a very specific, there's different talent pools. You know, the talent pool at Matty's Patties is very different than Cafe Rang. Cafe Rang is very different than Prime Seafood Palace. They're all very different.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  And each one needs to be kind of nurtured and given that kind of space to grow and become its own thing. And we need to be very aware of that. And each one is very kind of, you know, we work on each unit in a very specific way.

• 19:41Kara Swisher?

  Is there, is there one that's all you in the idea, if you had to pick of the restaurants?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I don't know. They're all very sentimental to me. They're all very much a part of what I've done and how I've done them. And they all, the through line is, is things that I love. You know, Rizzo's House of Palm is my love of my wife's family's cooking. Everything we do comes from an idea or a feeling and an experience that comes from my life. And the through line is that. The things that make me happy and proud. And those are the things that, like, it's a very good starting point to have something that's real, that's meaningful, and that's something that comes from a very pure, beautiful place.

• 20:33Kara Swisher?

  We'll be back in a minute.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Support for the show comes from Engine. Running a small business means every dollar has to work hard. But if your team is still booking travel the old way, it's costing you more than you think. Engine is the fastest growing travel and spend platform in the country, built specifically for businesses like yours. Book a trip in as little as two and a half minutes, earn up to 10% back on hotels. And in 2025, Engine customers save more than $300 million on travel with zero booking fees, no contracts, and no BS. More than 1,000 businesses join Engine every month. Join them and get $500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at engine.com/box.

• 21:27Kara Swisher?

  I'm Kara Swisher, and I like people who say the quiet part out loud. In fact, I love it. That's Tiger Sisters, a new podcast that recently joined the Vox Media Podcast Network. Cherie Brooke Lu and Jean Lu are real sisters who built their careers at LinkedIn and Goldman Sachs. On their weekly podcast, they're giving the next generation practical tips on how to get ahead, how to write emails people actually answer, how to make your LinkedIn profile stand out, and how to keep learning as an adult. It's straight talk about money, career, and relationships every Monday. Follow Tiger Sisters wherever you get your podcasts.

• 22:04Speaker 05

  Hey, y'all. It's a stead from America, [email protected]. We know that you have big questions about the world, and so do we. At Vox, we focus on covering the things that matter in your life and the things that make you curious, whether that's the big politics questions of the day, climate solutions that might actually work, or hopeful news in cancer or Alzheimer's research. We believe that journalism made for the everyday curious person can make a difference in making a better world. And if that sounds like something you want to be a part of, Vox now has a brand new app, and it brings all of our journalism together in one place. Go to vox.com/app to download today.

• 22:46Kara Swisher?

  So let me ask you, one of your biggest projects is your YouTube show, Cooking Something with Matty Matheson. Your channel has more than 1.5 million subscribers. And of course, you have many more across social media. As I said, my son Louis loves you and watches you all the time. Cooking shows aren't new. They just used to be on television. Let me play a clip from a recent episode. I'd like you to talk a little bit about it.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  What's up, everybody? I'm Matty Matheson, and welcome today to Cooking Something. Cooking Something is a show where I'm taking food and I'm cooking something with it, okay? You guys are at home being like, what the fuck do I cook? I don't know. I'm just trying to make something out of nothing. But we got something, and now I'm cooking something. And we're all here working together, trying to make each other feel good, eat good. You're cooking at home, self-esteem. I've gone over this how many times? You're cooking, you're making yourself feel good. Somebody eats it, they're like, holy fuck, that tastes really amazing. They're like, yeah, I learned how to make that from Matty. And then they're like, oh, my God, I love that guy. He's such a fucking idiot. And I'm like, yeah. And now we're here. Now we're here.

• 23:46Kara Swisher?

  You're a quiet, retiring type. So can you talk to me about what you're trying to do here? You suddenly throw in self-esteem, too, which I thought was interesting. But talk a little bit about what you're trying to do with this. In some ways, you're like a typical OG cooking show queen, like Julia Child. She had a very buoyant attitude in The French Chef and talked about empowering people, mostly women at the time. Talk about what you're doing here in the YouTube show you're doing.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  I just want people to get excited about cooking. And maybe they cook what I cook, maybe they watch me just to laugh. Whatever they get out of it, I can't really control that. But I think it is like, I think it's just an amazing thing that I'm able to reach a lot of people and get people excited about cooking. That's kind of it. You know, like, it's a very basic thing where I'm like, I've had a weekly cooking show for a long time that's, you know, free and just on the internet. So if anybody ever wants to go look at stuff, they can go. And I think it's just like a really cool thing that I love to have. And yeah, like, that's all it is.

• 24:54Kara Swisher?

  Is that, does that make... Money for you. Restaurants are often not money-making ventures. Obviously, the economics can be different. But is that something that's important economically?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Like YouTube is a place that like I'm able to give people free cooking videos and I'm able to do, you know, 30-second, one-minute integrations within those that pay for making that, you know? So it's something that provides a lot of joy to a lot of people and I'm able to make a couple bucks and keep it moving, you know?

• 25:29Kara Swisher?

  Obviously, you've been a name in the culinary world for more than a decade, but now people know you from playing this goofy family friend slash handyman, Neil Fak, on The Bear. Season three has just picked up, five Golden Globe nominations. Congratulations.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 25:44Kara Swisher?

  As you know, your book is now on soups and sandwiches. The Bear is the name of the restaurant that started out as a sandwich shop called The Beef. And one of your character's major moments in season three is about soup, is specifically mirepoix.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  I can take it.

• 26:01Speaker 06

  You sure?

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Chef.

• 26:02Speaker 06

  You know what to do?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  I believe so.

• 26:03Speaker 06

  Okay, we're gonna take it to the table. Okay, you're gonna pour the broth into the bowls, give them each a bowl. Say, this is our mirepoix broth. Okay, you got it?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Yes, chef.

• 26:10Speaker 06

  Good, go.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:11Speaker 06

  Careful.

• 26:13Speaker 06

  Thank you, chef.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 26:15Kara Swisher?

  What's happening in that scene? Because you don't play a chef. You're the only chef in this series who's not playing a chef.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just Fak. I'm playing, you know, a handyman. And, you know, Carmy's like best friend. And I'm trying to make people feel a little love in the middle of all the chaos that's going on. Yeah, in this scene, it's just like I bring out this dish, mirepoix soup, mirepoix broth. It's everything that makes the Italian beef without the beef kind of thing was the thinking behind it. Hi, welcome. This is a broth from Chef Carmen's mind, mirepoix and broth. I pour it in front of you.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Enjoy. I took things a little too literally when Chef told me to go and pour it in front of them. So I went and poured it in front of them and then brought it back to the kitchen. And obviously, they were supposed to have it.

• 27:13Speaker 06

  What are you doing?

• 27:14Speaker 01

  I poured it in front of them.

• 27:16Speaker 06

  Why the fuck is it back in here?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Well.

• 27:19Speaker 06

  We're a restaurant.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  I saw it.

• 27:20Speaker 06

  Serve the food.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  I got it.

• 27:21Speaker 06

  What the fuck is this? Come on. What are you thinking? We have to be organized.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yes, he's the guy who changes everything. It's sincere. It's a cute little mishap that obviously would make someone's head explode. You know? And it's just, I'm just like this, like, little velvet hammer of love and misunderstanding.

• 27:40Kara Swisher?

  Right, which is what your character is. So you're not just part of the cast, you're also a consultant and executive producer. Explain how this happened.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I've known Chris for a long time. Chris Storey, the creator and director and writer and all that stuff. And, um, his sister Courtney Storey is a close friend of mine. And, uh, she's a chef as well, and she's the culinary producer on the show. And, um, yeah, like, we've known each other for a long time. And then Chris called me one day and wanted to know if I wanted to, like, consult on this pilot of this show that he had. And, uh, yeah. And I was just like, okay. And like, we've kind of figured it out. And then I came and we shot the pilot and we worked, you know, I got to work with the writers. I got to work with costume and set deck and prop and work with the actors on a lot of stuff.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  And, and then we got to go make a show. And then it just kind of grew. Uh, you know, Fact's character grew a little bit more. I feel nobody knew if I was gonna be able to act a little bit or be able to do that or...

• 28:46Kara Swisher?

  Did you? Were you worried about your acting skills?

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's scary. It's doing something you've never done before. It's very scary. A lot of these people are amazing actors that have, like, spent their whole lives trying to be these actors. And then I'm like, I have no idea. I've never taken an acting class. I don't know. And then I show up and I'm just trying to do what I'm doing. And it's like, but it was an amazing experience because it's just like, I'm trying to help them, like, be better actors by, like, giving them a lot of information and stories and showing them how to, like, move in the kitchens a little bit and, like, all that kind of stuff. And then they were giving me the reciprocal of, like, helping me read my lines and working scenes with me. And it was a really amazing thing. Um, everyone on that show is so, so amazing.

• 29:27Kara Swisher?

  And Fact is a real fan favorite. Some people on Reddit say you make the bear a comedy. Um, I want to play you a short segment from season one where you're trying to convince Richie to give you a job at the restaurant. I graduated high school. Good story. Be serious.

• 29:40Speaker 06

  I'm being serious. What might you bring to the beef as a new employee?

• 29:45Speaker 01

  I've got hearth.

• 29:46Speaker 06

  What's hearth?

• 29:47Speaker 01

  I'm nervous, man. I've got heart.

• 29:49Speaker 06

  Ah, you're gonna need brain. Now, do you have any special skills or abilities aside from being a fucking stroke?

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Well, A, I'm not a fucking stroke. And B, I'm really good on the keyboard.

• 29:59Speaker 06

  No, A, you are. And B, no, you're not.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Well, A, yes, I am. And B, I joined the jazz fusion class, so in your face.

• 30:06Speaker 06

  A, I've heard you fucking play, and you're fucking terrible. And C, it's a fucking restaurant. Why do I give a fuck that you play the keyboard?

• 30:12Speaker 01

  I'm a hard worker. I'm a nice guy. I've got a great vibe.

• 30:16Speaker 06

  Fuck your vibe.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Don't ever fuck my vibe.

• 30:19Speaker 06

  I swear to God, I will fuck anything I want to fuck.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  You are not being nice. You will not fuck me. Mm-hmm.

• 30:26Kara Swisher?

  Talk about this scene. It's, you're a very good actor, actually, as it turns out.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. It's just like a really kind of oddly intense, crazy, uh, conversation between, you know, it's a thing where it's just like, we've all known each other since we were like kids almost, you know? And so it's just like, everyone's able to speak a little bit. Everyone's a little nastier, it seems. But, um, yeah, I don't know. I was just like, I wanted to be a part of the team. I really wanted to be a part of it. I thought I would add value. I, I, you know, obviously, I probably feel like left out. And then just trying to be a part of the team. It's my family. I love these guys. I love the beef. I love, you know, everything about it. And I love Carmy so much. And now that Carmy's back, and I just really wanted to be a part of it and try to help

• 31:15Speaker 01

  and, and be there, you know? So.

• 31:18Kara Swisher?

  Well, speaking of family, The Bear is about a guy trying to take over and launch a restaurant. It's really about families, the family dynamics behind the scenes and how people working in restaurants become families. Speaking of family, every week we get a question from an outside expert. This week, um, he's more of an inside expert. Let's play it. Hey, Matty, this is Jeff Swisher, Kara's older brother and the designated chef of our fairly large Italian-American family. I do the Feast of the Seven Fishes every year, and I have to say that your season two, episode six, Feast of the Seven Fishes, gave me PTSD. Our mother Lucky has never exactly driven a car into the house, but metaphorically, I'm not so sure.

• 31:55Speaker 06

  I had a wonderful friend named Peter Dandria, who sadly passed away too young. He was the head chef at the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco. Occasionally, we would go out together to pretty well-known restaurants in San Francisco, and the chefs would seem to try to outdo each other and make something special for the visiting chef. My question is this: if you knew that Thomas Keller and Dominique Crenn were coming to your restaurant, what would you make for each of them and why?

• 32:22Kara Swisher?

  Interesting. Those are two San Francisco chefs, just for people who don't know.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  When I was younger, whenever we had chefs come to the restaurant, Odd Fellows, Parts and Labor, I would always cook everything like myself, and I would do these elaborate things and make things off the menu and really just try to show them the love and cook all these, whatever, these stupid-ass things. And now, I have this thing where, when chefs come in, I want to very much stand on the food that we cook in the restaurant. I think that the food that we've chosen to cook at the restaurant is the best that we can create. And the team behind all of our menus and all of our food,

• 33:12Speaker 01

  that's what shines. And now, when chefs come in, we do what we do every day. We give them the same food that we give everybody. If Thomas Keller and Dominique Crenn came into any one of our restaurants, we would do absolutely nothing different. We would give them the same service, and we would give them the same food that we give everybody, to the highest of our ability.

• 33:37Kara Swisher?

  Oh, wow, that's interesting.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  And I think that is, you know, later on with life and maturity and everything about that, I think that's, the beauty is giving people something that we cook every day, something that we're proud of, something that we build and work on as a team. And I think that is good enough to serve any chef or any patron of any of our establishments.

• 34:00Kara Swisher?

  That's a really interesting answer. Which of the restaurants would you think, would you pick? Or you don't? Want to pick any of your children, I guess, right?

• 34:06Speaker 01

  If any chef came to any of my restaurants, I'd be excited. And, and, and I would be proud to have three Michelin star chefs or the greatest chefs in the world go eat a cheeseburger or a bowl of pho or a chicken parm or have an extravagant meal at, at Prime Seafood Palace, you know? Like it, it, I, I don't see it as anything better or worse. I'm proud of all of our, our restaurants and I think that good food is good food. And I think you can have a beautiful cheeseburger that's just as good as some, you know, expensive, fine dining experience. And I think that's what I'm trying to do.

• 34:47Kara Swisher?

  We'll be back in a minute.

• 34:55Speaker 05

  We're just days away from the midterm elections, which means I only really have one question.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  Hi, Samika Agi, it's Jessica. Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 05

  And I'm Al, we're from the Culinary Union. How are the issues that we've been tracking all year actually playing out on the ground? The reason why we're out here, we're actually out here canvassing for Aaron Ford and Mr. Horstberg. I'm not sure if you've heard of them. Oh, yeah. I'm about to go in. Amen. A few weeks ago, I headed west to Nevada where the entire midterms can basically be summed up in just three words, the Trump slump.

• 35:31Speaker 06

  Even with our great union jobs that we had, we struggled. That never happened before. And it's because of these politicians, what they're doing to us. The Trump slump.

• 35:44Speaker 05

  This week on America Actually, midterms canvassing with the Las Vegas Culinary Union. How many more days until election day? Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:57Speaker 06

  I'm Seth Matlins and on this week's Creator Destroy: Reimagining Marketing, my two guests are Walmart's CMO, William White, and Waymo's CMO, Suzanne Fillion. Walmart's got 150 million people walking through its doors every week while Waymo operates its autonomous ride hailing cars in only 15 US cities as of now. But both shared stories about why they need to keep earning customer trust and how trust is earned by everything the companies do and say in that order. Creator Destroy. It's a business show, a marketing show, and a show that argues they've always been the same thing. From the Wisdom is Company and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

• 36:34Speaker 04

  I'm Bridget Reed.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  And I'm James Walsh.

• 36:37Speaker 04

  The Alexander Brothers moved in a world of multimillion dollar homes, exclusive parties, and powerful people.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Behind that glamorous lifestyle were years of rumors and allegations that they were committing sexual assault.

• 36:50Speaker 04

  In our reporting for New York Magazine, we investigated what people knew and heard from women who came forward to tell their stories.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Now, that reporting is the basis for a new three-part docu-series, The Wolves of Real Estate: The Alexander Brothers.

• 37:05Speaker 04

  You'll see exactly how privilege protected them and how they were finally stopped.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Stream all three episodes now, only on Peacock.

• 37:18Kara Swisher?

  One of the projects you support is called the Matty Matheson Culinary and Hospitality Bursary. It's a scholarship program for Indigenous students attending post-secondary institutions, especially culinary hospitality. Can you talk about this program?

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just wanted to do something that I don't really talk about, you know? I think there's a lot of things that were like, I'm in a place of privilege, in a place of, I can, I can help, I can donate money to a bursary. And I love it. And I think having, you know, a place to put money into that supports the culinary arts and gets people into school and helps people. You know, I just had such an amazing experience. And I think a lot of people deserve a chance that don't have a chance. And I think just putting a little,

• 38:18Speaker 01

  you know, having that available is something that I'm really proud of and something that I don't really ever speak about either, because I think it's kind of whack. I think you should just be able to do things and not make it a thing. And I think it is, you know, the kids that have gone into culinary school because of that is amazing. And like, that's it.

• 38:39Kara Swisher?

  Have you seen, and more Gen Z people are looking for alternatives, say, to college education, jobs in kitchens. What are you seeing in kitchens right now? You have all these kitchens. What do you, where do you think things are happening? How is it changing? Or not at all?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, if you want to go to culinary school, go to culinary school. If you don't want to go to culinary school, don't go to culinary school. If you want to work in kitchens and you have a natural ability and you want to be able to learn and can show up and be a part of a team, then, you know, everyone's welcome. It's a matter of being able to learn and to be a part of a team. I don't really, it's amazing to go to culinary school and get some basics and get a foundation. But, yeah, I don't know.

• 39:28Kara Swisher?

  A lot of younger kids also are trying to be content creators first, obviously. You've been on YouTube, as I said, since the early days. Should people get in the kitchens or go to the creator's studio? They're doing it in journalism, they're doing it in a lot of places. I'm gonna just do journalism.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  I, you know.

• 39:45Kara Swisher?

  Because you can't taste anything on YouTube, but go ahead.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  No, you certainly can't. Um, yeah, I think, I think it's very separate. I think there's professional chefs and people that want to be cooks and chefs. And then there's people that want to be whatever they want to be on the internet side and on social media. And it's a very, it's very different worlds. And I think more and more people are looking towards creating content and going that route. And good for you. And I think it's, you know, I don't want to crap on anything if people are able to.

• 40:18Kara Swisher?

  You're not a crapper.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  No, I just want people to be happy doing what they're doing. There's people that want to be chefs, there's people that want to be, like, I got a lot of cooks and chefs in our company that don't give a shit about social media and don't give a shit, they want to be chefs. And that's an incredible thing. And, um, yeah, I don't know. I can't imagine just all of a sudden one day creating content. I don't know, it's a different world where I'm like.

• 40:44Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  I had a long career way before doing any type of video, way before content was content. So it's just like, I'm like this like kind of dinosaur, to be honest, where I'm like. I don't know. I don't think of what I do as content. I don't think of what we do is anything. I'm like, I make cooking shows and do whatever the hell I'm doing, but it's like, young kids, it's just like, yeah, the world's yours. Go get it. You know, like honestly, like if people want to be chefs, go be chefs. If people want to create content, good luck. And like, I think, I think social media is pretty fickle. I think it moves pretty fast. I think, you know, trends come and go very quickly.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  I think just making a 60 second jump cut TikTok, if you do that, you know, good, amazing. If that makes you happy and you can provide for yourself, then go get it. But it's like, it's really fickle. It's really crazy. And, and, you know, good luck to everybody. Honestly, like, I, I don't know.

• 41:42Kara Swisher?

  It's interesting because in journalism, I'm like, because a lot of people are using content just without doing the training. And I'm always like, you should really just write stories to start with. I just feel like you should know how to cook an egg, in your case, right? Cook a good egg.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just see it very differently. Like, I'm like, you know, where I'm like, I agree with you for sure. Like, why would, why are these people able to do what they do? What, what's their pedigree? What is their, what is their knowledge? What is their thing? And the proof's in the pudding, where it's just like, maybe they don't have anything. Maybe, maybe they don't know anything, but they have a giant following. I don't know. And then, and then it's just like, there's a lot of that going on too. And it's just like, you know, and it's one of those things. It doesn't, it doesn't really matter. Because if you want to be that, then be that. If you want to be a chef, go be a chef. And it's just like, I just see everything as a very different lane where it's just like, who cares also?

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Like, it is one of those things where I'm like, it, nothing actually affects it. Like, I'm like, if there's all these like TikTokers and all this crap out there, I make fun of it all the time. Where I'm like, I don't understand it. I'm old. I'm like, I don't understand it. I don't, I also don't care. I have my fan base. I, I give them what I believe is good quality stuff and then.

• 42:56Kara Swisher?

  Is there something you see and you go, no, no, no, no, no? Is there something that you go, no, please stop doing this? Is there anything?

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Well, no, I, I, I, I don't waste my time thinking about stuff like that. I really don't think like that.

• 43:07Kara Swisher?

  Or do you see something you love? I like, for example, love watching people make candies.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's nice. I love watching Ina, you know, like it's this like, I love watching Ina. Yeah, like I love watching Martha. I love watching, I love watching like beautiful.

• 43:22Kara Swisher?

  Well, that's the OG. You just mentioned the two OG people.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, but that's what I like watching. That's, that's like, it, it, I love the way that they cook. I love the way they talk about food. I love the, what they do. And it is like, um, there's a lot of people out there that make beautiful content that I do love watching. I love the softer stuff. I love the, like, you know, like, I'm not watching. Also, I don't go on YouTube ever. I don't watch anything I make and I don't really.

• 43:50Kara Swisher?

  You just move along to the next thing.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I make, I, yeah, I don't have TikTok on my phone. I don't really look at Instagram for it.

• 43:57Kara Swisher?

  Then, then please, please don't look at Gordon Ramsay's duets on TikTok. I'll just advise you that early in advance. What, what do you want to put on, put in your focus next? Or do you like doing all these things?

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I'm, I'm doing everything I want to do. We've created a lot of these things in the last couple of years. And now it's like, how do we make them long lasting? How do we make them real?

• 44:17Kara Swisher?

  So have like an Ina Garten, Martha Stewart career, that kind of thing, which has been going on for a while.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  I've never had, I've never had this like big it moment. It's always been this like slow burn. And I'm like, I think just continuously doing what I'm doing and working hard on everything that we are doing is, is all I can do. And I think, you know, I don't think I'm going to start a new business. I think I have enough things going on. And now I want to have all the things that I do have and make them long lasting and, and make them real.

• 44:46Kara Swisher?

  Will Neil finally get his wish and become a waiter?

• 44:49Speaker 01

  I hope so. You know, I think taking the, taking the soup out was like, you know, two steps forward, one step back. I don't know. I think, I think I'm not giving up. And I think no one's going to give up on Neil. So I think there's, there's good hope on that.

• 45:03Kara Swisher?

  All right. My last question, getting back to your book, your new book, um, if you had to pick one soup, salad and sandwich as your favorite, which would you choose? I know you write in the book that bologna is your childhood favorite. I love bologna and haven't thought of it in a long time. But what would you, what would you pick in the, in the book right now? Do you advise people to start?

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, the soup, I would probably genuinely pick, um.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  You like, I don't even think it's in the book. I would just pick like a chicken noodle soup. I'd pick definitely a tuna melt. I love tuna melts and a salad I would make. Probably just like my Matty Sal. That's, that's in another book. It's not even in this book, but I'd make the Matty salad, which is just like green lettuce, green olives, onion, green beans, celery, oil, vinegar, salt and pepper.

• 46:00Kara Swisher?

  And that would be your favorite?

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the salad I always make and I love and it always makes me happy, you know?

• 46:06Kara Swisher?

  Well, we'll end on that. I really appreciate it, Matty. Thank you so much. You really are an inspiration to a lot more people than you think.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. It's very kind.

• 46:19Kara Swisher?

  On with Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castro Rosell, Kateri Yokum, Jolie Myers, Megan Burney, and Kalen Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Special thanks to Kate Ferby. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Aruda, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're only following the show, you get Matty's special salad, tuna melt, and chicken noodle soup. If not, get whatever's on the menu, which is probably great anyway. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Support for the show comes from Engine. Running a small business means every dollar has to work hard, but if your team is still booking travel the old way, it's costing you more than you think. Engine is the fastest growing travel and spend platform in the country, built specifically for businesses like yours. Book a trip in as little as two and a half minutes, earn up to 10% back on hotels. And in 2025, Engine customers save more than $300 million on travel with zero booking fees, no contracts, and no BS. More than 1,000 businesses join Engine every month. Join them and get $500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at engine.com/vox.

• 47:47Speaker 04

  What if you could run your Oracle databases in the cloud you already use? Good news, you can. Oracle AI Database runs in every major cloud, including AWS, Google Cloud, Microsoft Azure, and OCI. Migrate your Oracle databases to the cloud of your choice today, simply, securely, and on your terms. Find out how at oracle.com/migrate. That's oracle.com/migrate. Oracle.com/migrate.